part 11 This will be brief as I am still tired from the surgery I underwent yesterday. My cousin took me for my surgery and I had WH go to work because he's been known to be overbearing and curt before any family undergoes surgery. WH was very attentive all day yesterday, he texted me constantly while I was in pre-op, telling me he loved me and that I was very brave and strong. The operation went off without a hitch and the recovery was no where near as painful as previous operations I underwent (gall bladder removal, cardiac ablation, etc.,) WH was there as soon as I woke and stroking my head, kissing my forehead and asking how I felt. Afterward we went by the pharmacy and picked up Tramadol for pain and also picked up dinner.
I was still very sleepy from the anesthesia and spent the evening dozing on and off while WH handled child care. I am home today recovering with the plan to return to work tomorrow. I am lucky in that my job is not physically demanding and I have a good support staff. WH was attentive today before going to work and has been texting and checking in on me. He's never been like this before after my operations. I have hope he is eventually going to learn to be a good husband. I think for some people remorse doesn't happen overnight, it is only through time and seeing the person in front of you that it starts to sink in their worth and how close you came ot losing them. My shields are still up and I continue to observe WH for consistency.
Thank you all my well wishers and your prayers, they have been invaluable.
PsySara,
It's good to hear it went ok! Your husband's support is definitely an added bonus! It sounds amazing to have a husband who says you're brave and who is attentive. By the way gallbladder removal and cardiac ablation are two procedures I've anticipated over the past ten years and still believe I may need someday but hope to avoid. If you've been through those, plus have had several kids, plus the procedure yesterday it seems you've been through it all. Plus with everything you've endured in your marriage it seems life can only get better from here!
God willing, Nicole!
DD turned 7 today and I bought an ice cream cake, balloons and presents for DD. Right now all three of the kids are in the toy room playing with DD's new toys. I am still tired and sore but healing. WH and I have had to work long hours recently as the holidays usually see an uptick in admissions so we haven't had much quality time, which is my LL. We also can't have any sex until I am healed from surgery so that's out too.
I find myself wanting more from my marriage. But I have to fight my impulse to push WH into giving me what I want. I feel like I need to have a sit-down talk so we can reconnect as life has been getting int he way recently. I want intimacy on an emotional level. I want to feel close and kind of get inside his skin, lol. This weekend the kids will be at my mother's home so I may have WH sit down and cuddle with me while we talk.
PsySara,
Just making it through surgery this week is an accomplishment. That's also so great and fun to celebrate your daughter's birthday. Your kids must be on holiday break now right?
I hope with the time this weekend you'll be able to connect with your husband. Sounds like it could be an important weekend since it'll give you insight into what he's thinking if you can spend that time alone together. With everything you wrote recently there'd be no reason to believe your husband wouldn't want the emotional intimacy you do. If it goes well this weekend then maybe you'll be officially on the path towards full reconciliation. Or at least you'll have the feeling that this positive trajectory has been sustained long enough to mean something. Good luck!
Hi PsySara,
I've been AWOL lately but I'm hoping to have plenty of time this next week to get caught up on your sitch.
I just wanted to take a second to stop in and say Happy Holidays to you, and that you have been a true inspiration to me this last year. May 2018 bring more peace and joy to us all!
Thanks for stopping by guys, I appreciate it. Things are good and things are bland. We haven't really got to have any break through moments but we have had a lot of nice moments. The kids have been enjoying their time off from school and I've been working and then enjoying the laid back atmosphere at home. I find myself in my self imposed limbo. WH has been honest with me (even when the truth isn't "good") and says he also is missing that "spark." WE're not trying to force it but I find myself hungry for natural affection. WH has been commenting here and there on my appearance but things seem stilted between us.
I don't know...I just don't know what to do now. Things are so much better between us but we're more like friendly roommates than a loving married couple. Sometimes I wonder if we'll ever recover from his affair? Will he ever come to remorse and will I be able to move past it. Mind movies still happen sometimes and I get so angry. I stopped lashing out but now sadness just permeates my bones when I think about us. It will never be the same, and I mean that in the sense that I felt we were special. I thought I was special to him and irreplaceable. I know that isn't true anymore, that he can simply replace me with someone younger and more malleable. I wish I knew someone in real life that was able to recover their marriage and ask them how they were able to feel that sense of...fate? for each other? Forgive me while I just journal my thoughts about my musings.
PsySara,
Some of what you're talking about, like the feeling of being roommates, sounds normal even for a married couple with a few kids who didn't have major problems. Nevertheless, it's true that it will never be the same again. It's like you need to re-set your expectations and find solace in knowing that he still wanted you even after you both went through those dark times. And you still wanted him. The divorce didn't happen because you both saw something worth saving, right? You're keeping your family in-tact and you're giving your kids the best that you can - a home with their mom and dad. It seems like things may not be as great but they're not as bad as they could be. It seems you made the right choice to give it another shot. This might be the best it can be for now.
I also wish to know couples who overcame these situations. I feel like at some point there needs to be acceptance for each other not being as great as what you thought they once were. It's hard to forget all those bad memories. And hard to achieve moments where the love and attraction you had to each other previously is greater or better than before. A lot of how you feel probably depends on the level of effort your husband puts in to trying to fix things and make you feel better. Is he still offering extra reassurance like he was a few weeks ago?
I still have nightmares about my husband's affairs and then wake up and realize he's gone which is like an ongoing real nightmare. If he ever came back and wanted to fix things, how could I ever do it? The only way I feel would be to accept that the wonderful life we started building together is gone and what we'd rebuild may be something totally different, like just a practical life together where we play different roles to support each other. I doubt the love would ever be the same.
It seems like you need a little more time to see how it goes. I'm sure there are many others here who are not in the middle of a crisis who will have much better feedback. I hope there is still a chance of you and your husband recovering what you had before!
Nicole,
What an excellent post and point. This is where I think many A's happen. When they feel the spark is gone and life and kids get in the way..... they go out searching in other places looking for that spark. But life happens. Sara, the way your H handled that was awful. He did what a lot of people did, look for it elsewhere. And maybe, right now, at this point in your lives, it's not going to be there.
I raised my daughter without a partner, since he decided that he didn't want the same person to be the wife and parent of his child. He was attention hungry. There was no neglect on my part either. He remarried at 31 and did not want kids with her, even though she had none, and he has his own barely a third of the time. So, I never really had to balance every day life with pleasing a partner. I was simply raising my kid on my own.
But I see it happening all around me in real life. expecting marriage to be as it was when you were newleyweds with no kids. it's just not a reality. I long for the comfort of just knowing a partner is there, to share kid responsibilities, to do things as a family, and when the kdis are asleep, maybe just lay on my husbands shoulder in my jammies and watch some TV. To me, that's romance, because I never had it.
When was the last time you felt this spark, Sara? Were kids in the picture? Were demanding careers in the picture?
Maybe just really sit down and think about what you are missing in this R. And would it be the same way if there was never infidelity, it was just a season of life?
I think you are both trying to reach for something that perhaps is unrealistic at this time. Instead of seeing exactly what you have right in front of you.
Nicole,
We are kind of at the place where BluWave was about a year ago, I think. I am finally getting back some normalcy and routine and starting to process the last two years. My thoughts are going in directions I don't like and I find myself wondering why I fought so hard for someone who disrespected me so much for so long. Our marriage was lackluster before DD#1 and I find WH slipping into his routine behaviors. I just wish he'd jump through some hoops or something. I am very ambivalent about my feelings toward WH right now. While he is being very kind he is not really touching me at all. He's honest in that he isn't drawn to me as physically as previously. He thinks it's because he is struggling with the guilt of giving me a cancer causing STD which I am undergoing treatment for.I am trying to be patient but I kind of want that swept off my feet feeling.
Ginger,
I feel like the last time I felt the spark was even before we married. Afterward he started residency and became a bit of an @sshole. He started out in surgical residency and was a gunner. It was at the cost of our family too. He ended up switching to internal medicine and things got a little better. Most of our marriage has been WH being perpetually unhappy. I wa "I want to be a surgeon" or "I want to go into Interventional Cardiology." These were things that would take enormous time away from the family. Whenever he would chase a dream and it didn't come to fruition he would become moody and withdrawn. Now he seems happy with his family and while work is fulfilling, he's no longer chasing dreams that would destroy his family. I am grateful for that and this is more of an internal struggle for me.
Is this is a season of life? Maybe? I am not making any sudden moves and still working on DBing.
PsySara, I can relate because my husband already left and returned once and I had many of those thoughts when he returned. My sense is that you've done just about everything you can do to give your marriage a second chance. You're even staying patient despite all these thoughts and feeling that could easily cause you to do something drastic. Are you drawn to your husband as much physically as you were before? If your husband says he's not as drawn to you, can he specify whether there's something you could change either physically or in your actions that would catch his interest?
I believe you have two options, right? Either to settle for what you have now or to proceed with divorce. If settling for what you have now is the best of the two options after you continue to think about it, then you may have no choice but to start finding happiness in other ways, apart from your husband, until he signals that he's ready to provide what you need. Not an affair of course but by doing activities with your kids, in your career, in re-strengthening your religious beliefs or becoming closer to other friends and family members...
Others may disagree with me and say you'd be better off divorced, but I believe you're better off staying. Now that my husband is gone and I'm alone, with health problems, and a young child, I'd do anything for even a lackluster marriage. The loneliness and uncertainty about the future is much worse for me than a husband who contributes minimally and isn't physically affectionate. At least with some kind of husband there is some kind of stability. To me a bad marriage (without abuse or violence of course) is better than none, but I'm sure there are others who will disagree.
Maybe you need to search outside of DB at this point. DB is only about saving your marriage but doesn't focus on what happens after it's saved. That's the issue I have with it. There are probably other resources out there for this stage you're in. I wish I had found them before my husband left a second time. Although he never really sought to reconcile, I also didn't make the conditions right for that to happen. I wasn't my usual self and expected too much from my husband. I should have just left him alone for a few years to do what he wants instead of trying to talk about our marriage every month or two.
I still hope you'll find a way to make it work. It sounds like having patience is the right thing to do but you still need to express all your thoughts and doubts.
Hi, Psysara... This is a season, a stage... At the beginning of coming back together, there is a giddiness... That lasts for a bit, but then the mundane comes in... And this may last for a very long time... You must determine what you are willing to endure to "hopefully" get what you want, which is not guaranteed...
In my opinion, the underlying issue is that you have always let your H back in rather easily... he says the right words, he demonstrates a token action or two... You have yet to require him to prove himself before you welcome him back... I think that is why he eventually slides back into old behaviors... You and hoosjim are sort of in the same predicament... You are sort of piecing by yourselves and experiencing little or no affection from your spouse...
Getting back to the spark, if you do get there, will require a lot of patience from you and your H... Getting there is worth it, but there are no guarantees... You must determine what you will be okay with... And you don't have to decide that now... You can keep going, and make your decisions along the way...
I really do hope you get the marriage you want... The marriage you have worked so hard for...
Mis dos centavos...
--artista
Given your response, I am going to ask you a tough question.
DO you like your H? Not love him, but like him as a person. Have you liked him for who he is? The person you want him to be, was he ever actually that person?
Because we cannot change who people are. I have seen marriages break because they hope eventually their spouse they envisioned them to be, not who they actually are.
There may have to be some acceptance of who is, the type of guy, H, and father he is, and if you could like the person that is. But odds are slim he is just going to become someone who you life if you didn't like him enough in the first place.
I wish I knew someone in real life that was able to recover their marriage and ask them how they were able to feel that sense of...fate? for each other? Forgive me while I just journal my thoughts about my musings...
...Is this is a season of life? Maybe? I am not making any sudden moves and still working on DBing.
It's hard. From the outside it's easy to share my thoughts, but you're the one that has to walk the road. Still, it's all I can do so here goes.
I believe that feelings follow behavior. I also believe that feelings aren't a good way to determine whether you should continue to invest effort into a marriage.
It's like investing in the stock market. First time investors buy a stock and then they check it hourly. They're told it's a long term investment but they can't help themselves, they keep refreshing values and fretting over what might happen. The seasoned investors have seen the highs and lows and can just make an investment and then let it stand for a year or two.
Instead of habitually evaluating your marital satisfaction, maybe you can look at it the same way. Like you know that the piecing road is going to be a difficult and painful one for a long time, but that you've decided that based on your beliefs you are committed to making the investment.
Then you can put your focus on not what you're getting out of the marriage, but whether you're doing everything you can to make the best investment possible. Are you being the best wife and mother and human you can be? Are you doing everything you can to show God and your husband your appreciation for your family? Not because you expect an immediate return of reciprocation or romantic feelings, but because this is what you were put here for (to appreciate what you were given and to give to those around you).
If you are doing everything you can be doing then choose to feel good because you are doing your best. Drop all expectations. Continue to GAL and meet your needs and make your own happiness. And continue to give your all to the M. Do this and maybe before you know it the seasons will turn and one morning you'll wake up and realize things are going good and will wonder when that happened.
Shoot, interrupted by life. Sounds like that's what you've been doing anyway. Keep up the great work, you're doing it right.
Sigh, so it goes. WH continues to be...disengaged? aloof? Not cold but definitely sort of checked out. He's not doing anything suspicious like phone hoarding or being defensive but it's like he is physically here and mentally far away. He's stopped touching me, doesn't really ask after me, and almost seems like he finds my body as attractive as a block of wood. It's going on 3 months since we last ML and I am at a loss as to what is going on. I tried to address it and he said he would "do his duty" if necessary. Well, that turned me off completely because I don't want intimacy to feel like a duty. It feels like rejection and it really hurts.
To give an idea, I weigh 120 lbs and am 5'1. I look around 30 even though I am 40. I get my hair professionally done and blown out, I dress nice both at home and work, wear makeup every day of the week, smell good (I really like lotions with light, warm scents) wear sexy underclothes and basically try to be the best wife possible. I smile more than frown and make light jokes about shared memories and experiences. He comes home, makes himself busy on his computer or playing with the kids or dogs and eventually falls asleep on the couch leaving me alone for a few hours before bedtime. On his days off he will lie down with the kids to put them asleep, doze off until my bedtime and then rise when I go to bed and play video games. I find myself frustrated with his avoidance and passivity, this was exactly what our marriage was like before Dday#1. Of course WH rewrote marital hx during his A and said I was not into doing things together, I just nagged about him not helping enough with the kids and chores and I didn't give enough sex. But in actuality it was like it is now, me trying to shore up our relationship and him just not....engaged. Of course my stupid brain will remember how he talked about staying up to the wee hours while they (he and OW) talked, how they liked the same things, blah blah blah. Why was he willing to go out on a limb with someone he knew 3 weeks and not even give a little bit with me? My resentment is building. I am starting to understand how WAWs happen. I have made huge changes and he has basically remained the same, no insight or introspection. HE just thinks our marriage will miraculously heal without him putting in any effort. He keeps waiting for a "feeling" to happen so he will suddenly be motivated to do the things I need to feel safe in this marriage.
Most of this is venting on here because I don't have anyone in real life with the background I've shared on this board. I keep making sure to reach out to friends, fill my days up with love, laughter and joy. But I am not happy in my marriage right now, I feel sad and empty when near him. No flirting, gentle words or acts of giving really seem to make a difference. He remains indifferent.
Sara,
This is exactly why a lot of folks have been silent since your last "reconnection" attempt. You keep thinking this is about you, what you are doing or not doing. It has nothing to do with you. It is about him. Only him.
You guys have such obvious 3 month cycles. Mine did the exact same thing. I lived it, I know it. It suck$.
Only you can make the decision. Do you keep putting up with this as he spirals, then you threaten, then he "comes" back, life is great, then he disappears. . . rinse, repeat, etc.
I am glad you come here to vent, but those who have followed your story think you deserve way more than this guy is capable of giving, at least in his present state. But ultimately, if you are willing to take what he gives, then that is your decision.
Not sure if you've read HaWho's development on the MLC board, but after years of basement dwelling at a subsistence level her H has suddenly handed her divorce papers and it is making a big push to get out ASAP.
Sometimes waiting around for things to get better works, but usually it doesn't.
I hope you find a good place for you and the kids with whatever you decide. You are one heck of a lady and a hard worker.
No worries about subsistence living, the house is mine and completely in my name only. It's in a good school district and a great neighborhood. WH and I make roughly the same amount of money and frankly if we divorce, he would be hurting more financially. I pay 90% of the household bills (he supports quite a bit of extended family financially) and it would barely ripple my financial status if we D.
If WH filed for divorce I think I would feel sad but ultimately relieved. I can say I've done a Herculean effort to save this marriage and the onus is on him. The only thing keeping me from pulling the trigger is the fact my kids spend a lot of quality time with both parents under the same roof. I once approached my DD last year about the possibility of mommy and daddy living in two different houses. Her luminescent eyes filled with tears and she shakily said, "I need to go cry now." Those words keep reverberating in my head. I so wish I could turn back time and pick another man to make the father of my children. But I can't and now I feel I am stuck between a rock and a hard spot, divorce my WH and place a step father in their life or remain single and alone. My difficulty is that I spent my childhood and young adulthood fantasizing about giving my future children the gift of a strong, loving, two parent home. It will feel like the death of part of me when/if we divorce. My children are happy, healthy and completely stable right now. Do I take that from them or continue to live in limbo? I love them more than my desire to destructure their lives right now. So...divorce? If so, why do we DB in the first place? Is this method even effective? So far I've seen about 90% of the Newcomers eventually divorce eventually. I just feel so stuck right now. This horse of a husband refuses to drink no matter how much water I put out.
Sara,
It's so painful to be in that position. I still haven't been able to read every one of your posts but have you determined if your husband has been going through a MLC or is depressed? Maybe there's something that could help to explain why he's non-responsive so often.
Do you feel like you truly love your husband? Is it more important to keep him, because that's the man you love, or to find someone that reciprocates equally?
For me my husband was the man I truly loved. There's no one else on Earth I wanted to be with. Then he changed and now he's gone. If there were other men lined up that I felt would have been better I may have left two years ago, but I could never imagine being with anyone else. I guess that's my mistake and still is.
Maybe you need to try really hard to envision your life without your husband, both short-term and long-term. How do you feel about being totally alone? Can you imagine being happy with another man? Did you ever love any other men?
It seems there's not much more you can do to get through to your husband. There's still hope that when your kids are older and more independent that you and your husband will have more time alone together which could make a difference. There's still hope that one day he'll 'wake up' and realize all his mistakes. Your husband didn't divorce you so there's still that stability and warmth of having him there with you. It seems like there's still hope except that you're probably exhausted from waiting and trying and still not having him be consistently engaged.
Perhaps without doing anything wrong you can just look around you when you're out and see what you see. All those men holding their wives' hands walking into Target. The happy families at the playground where the husband and wife are snuggled together on the bench while the kids play. The husband waiting in line with flowers in his hands at the check-out area. I bet those men's wives don't have to try so hard and yet their husbands give them loyalty and affection. Some men are just better than others at being a partner. Then what about the single guys? Do they give you a glimpse when you walk by? Do you ever smile at one and he smiles back?
It seems like there must be a series of questions you can answer and analyses you can do to make more sense of your situation. The answer about what to do next must be there.
This is just hypothetical, but let's say your husband continues to be like this and you meet a guy at work or wherever who's super handsome and affectionate towards you and has everything you're looking for. If such a guy was standing there in front of you would you still want to stay married to your husband? Or would you start to imagine a different path? I'm not saying to ever cheat but just to think about different scenarios as a way to test yourself.
I'd still give anything for my husband to be in the room next to me, working on his computer, knowing he's safe and we're together. Your husband is still there, so there's still hope and still something to be thankful for in my opinion.
Sara, by subsistence living, I was being a little more metaphorical. I meant she lived with a checked out husband who gave her nothing in the relationship.
I get what you are saying about the kids, I heard the same thing from my son. A couple of weeks later his dad was gone. Now both kids tell me they are so glad he is gone. Of course a 6 year old has no reference for anything other than what she has known. This is why the children of murderers still yearn for them (which my kids' counselor told me on our first visit). But, if the calculus does change for you in the future, kids do adapt and there are positives that come out of the situation that can help make up for the obvious negatives.
You need to do what you need to do for you. If having him there is worth it to you for whatever reason, then you should keep him there. But, if you do, I think you need to change your expectations. You are constantly disappointed because he is not giving you what you want.
I think if you can reach a point where you expect him to be exactly who and what he is, you can move forward for you in a more detached, and likely happier fashion.
Also, just so you know, I'm about as pro marriage as a person can be. I don't necessarily think him leaving for a while has to equate to divorce. I think there are lots of steps between where you guys are now and divorce.
I do think you should also consider the MLC angle, although I'm not sure it offers much reassurance for yours, or any other, situation.
Sara, everything Ownit said, is pretty much exactly my sentiments.
I understand that you are a physically beautiful woman who takes care of herself, a wonderful mother and a successful career woman. But when are you going to get IT'S NOT YOU!!! You could be Kate Middleton, or any other "perfect" woman and it still won't be enough for him. Why? Because THIS IS HIS PROBLEM. It is not something lacking in you, it is something lacking in him.
Sara, every last one of us here pictures we would have the nuclear unbroken family and our kids would have a magical life and childhood within that unit. We have all suffered the same loss of the dream. Trust me, I did not go through IVF at 26 years old to have my husband leave me for another woman when our miracle baby was 6 months old. With that, my vision of what would be was shattered, and the hardest part is to let go of that fantasy.
The way I see it is you have 2 choices. You live in your situation as is with no expectations if you believe that is truly what is best for your kids. You live that way knowing you aren't getting anymore than what you are getting now and there is the chance of him just walking out that door one day. Or, you get out of this situation, mourn the loss of your perfectly nuclear family, and perhaps realize there is happiness for you and your kids without him in the house. Yeah, maybe one day you remarry and your kids have a stepfather. An engaging one who isn't depressed who loves your kids and loves you and gives you what you need. I am the example of I guess what would be "alone until the kids grow up" I have had maybe a total of a year relationship in the last 10 and I never remarried. Yeah, sure I am lonely. But given the choice of living with the exH as he is is a far worse fate than the position I am in now. That's for me, personally.
You have choices, and I know they aren't what you want them to be, but you have choices. Nor do you have to rush into making these choices. If you can deal with this cycle he keeps putting you through and you truly think it's the best option, then that's you choice, and no one way is a fault. But if you have any expectations beyond what he has been consistently showing you, then you will really set yourself up for misery and disappointment, which will surely turn to resentment.
And yeah, when we are all newly bomb-dropped, we stumble onto this site, and expect DBing is going to save our M. Then our marriage ends anyway and we feel a bit jipped. But in the long run, we take on some life and relationship skills that invaluable to your future. We look inward, which quite honestly, most people are way to scared to do. While it doesn't save our M, it doesn't mean we worked it wrong in or it doesn't work. In the cases I have seen it work, it's only if the WAS is healthy or gets healthy. We can't change someone, they have to want to, and that is not on us.
good evening, PsySara... back in September 2016 you posted an update where you sent your H a link to something called TalkingParents... something like that... to help parents who are considering divorce to communicate... H got SCARED... i was a lurker at that point... i had been lurking on the DB site for about 18 months at that point, and had read many, many threads... when i read that post, i thought: this girl gets it! she is DBing and she is on her way... not long after that, you shared with your H that you believed you got a message that you two were meant to be together... H pulled back big time... and that was the last time you seemed strong to me...
you go through cycles where you seem resolved to move on, and H softens, and then the cycle continues... but in all the cycling, i do not think you have been as strong as you were back in September 2016...
after your experience with Retrouvaille, you have questioned the DB method a couple of times... my observation is, rarely does anybody come to this site and DB through and through... most go through pieces of DBing... because it is difficult... it is scary... it is painful... most people cannot bring themselves to believe doing what seems unnatural could actually help... i said this earlier: you have not required much from your H before you take him back... each time you have allowed him back in, he came in not doing any of the work...
for DBing to have a fighting chance to work, to bring a marriage together, the LBS has to have the stomach to see it through... and even then, there is no guarantee... most people who come here are giving it what they can, God bless them, but that is not enough... most of those LBSs who are giving it all they can do not have the stomach to do it fully...
i say this to say, it may seem like DBing doesn't have a high success rate, but in all fairness to the DB process, most people do not follow it to the Nth degree... it's too uncomfortable...
--artista
Hi PsySara, one of my friends recommended a book called "He's Scared, She's Scared" by Steven Carter and Julia Sokol. She suggested that my husband is afflicted by "commitment conflict," which is what the book is about. After reading it I'm not sure if that's the source of the problem in my relationship but since your husband seems to follow a pattern of pulling closer and then pulling away I thought I'd share the name of this book in case you want to consider it, among other things.
Hi Sara,
Everyone posting wants the same thing, happiness with a spouse. I think that even the WAS wants that, albeit their perspective is always much different than the LBS.
I wanted to say that I admire you for lasting this long and continue to support the DB efforts.
It has been two years now that my xW has left the boys and me. I would like to share some things that maybe others have not. Since my D was final I have travelled down somewhat of a dark road and have finally gotten to a point where I feel confident with who I am.
I have also found that there are a lot of families that may not follow the traditional societal norm. The obvious norm is that the H and W work things out and stay together or the other is to D. Although everyone would prefer the former vs. the latter, I learned that there is a minority of families that have chosen another option, open marriage.
I am not suggesting that anyone choose this option but it is an alternative. Does it last for the sake of the kids? I have heard stories from friends where the parents stayed together yet lived separate social lives until their children became adults. They were able to balance family life yet found a way to meet their needs separately with others.
I have also heard situations where this has failed after a few years and the spouses ultimately divorced.
No matter how perfect in the DB process the LBS is, if the WAS’s perspective of the LBS is that they are flawed or that the WAS feels they are unhappy in the M, the chance for success in saving the M is low.
Forget what your H is doing or not doing. Continue to focus on you and get what you want out of life while still being kind and loving to your children and the loved ones around you.
I have learned a lot from my boys this past year. They are strong boys and all they want to know is they are loved, no matter if xW is around or not. For me, I find happiness in their smiles. I GAL every so often for me. I have and continue to get help for them and myself so that the six of us can be mentally and emotionally strong. This is my family now and I would not give up the bond I am developing with them for anything.
Would I prefer it to be different, yes, but I will try my best to be have us be the best family we can be. Our bonus would be having a female in our lives to share our experiences.
Map out YOUR plan Sara and you will succeed for yourself and your children.
I'm exhausted from being outside in the nice Florida weather with the kids all afternoon so I'll make this brief. WH continues to be aloof, unengaged and basically just phoning it in. I've made some rookie errors and tried to engage him in talks just to see him retreat further. So I'm just letting go of the rope again and will put him and "us" on the back burner. I'm not even sure there is an "us" to be frank. Seems more to be a "me" with some guy just floating in the background.
I will be returning to the gym to work on this not-so-flat stomach, get my hair done this week and my legs waxed. I don't need validation from this @sshole to feel good about myself. I also plan on doing some poking around and see if I can find a place in another hospital that will give me a lower census and some better pay. Don't get me wrong, my pay is fine but I was promised a census of 16-17 and I am dealing with 20+ patients consistently as well as running our outpatient clinic with no extra pay. I can do better. WH's birthday is in 2 days and I will buy him something he's been asking for for about 6 months, not expensive and actually useful. But I am not going to do any surprises or go the extra mile. It's what I would do for a roommate so not really going out of my way.
Sara,
I didn't get a chance to write on my thread yet but I made some realizations in the past few days. It sounds like you're doing the right thing. On the other hand, I believe your husband loves you. I believe he's struggling but you can't give up on him. He's still there with you. It's not too late. Maybe he does need some space but I'd say just to do loving things for him sparingly, flatter him with compliments, flash him some beautiful smiles, and give him some space. He still loves you. I'd do anything to be in your position because your marriage can be saved and happy again. Just tell him how great he is and give him a foot massage without asking anything more. Give it some time. You two will be together!
PsySara, I had meant for a while to read some of your earlier threads and I tried to do so tonight. I still didn't get through too much but I saw that you had heart damage and a lot of physical symptoms from all this. That's so similar to what I experienced. I was getting runs of PVC's and chest pain. The last stress echo I did almost three years ago was normal and I'm supposed to have another one but I've had so many stomach problems I haven't had time for heart problems. I'm not aware of having physical damage to my heart but definitely for a while I thought I'd have sudden cardiac death from the runs of PVC's where I almost fainted. Thankfully I haven't had that now in over a year.
I don't know Sara. Your life has been crazy. How can you have three kids, go to medical school, and have a job where you have 20+ patients per day? My husband has been getting 38 patients per day and going to nursing homes after that, so I can imagine he's beyond stressed and he's working seven days per week. But he has no other responsibilities whereas you have THREE kids! I, on the other hand, currently have serious trouble loading the dishwasher despite previously working multiple consulting jobs and long hours before having my daughter.
It just feels like this is a phase of life that isn't conducive to marriage. If you have the ability to afford it you should really take some time off! Reduce your hours to part-time or do outpatient or simply take six months off completely. Your whole perspective and life could change with some time to think although it's understandable if you can't take time off.
It seems like your life has been in crisis mode for so long. Your husband's affair scarred the marriage so deeply, just like my husband's affair scarred mine. I can only tell you from my experience, with my husband now planning for divorce, that it's devastating when everything, EVERYTHING, you've worked for is about to be gone. You've worked so hard to keep your family together. Your husband is still there. My outside opinion is to keep him and cherish him as much as possible until this phase in life passes. Then you can re-evaluate.
I hope you're doing well otherwise! I know I'm not in a position to help much but I'm someone who would do anything to stay married. I have another set of friends who were fighting so badly it became domestic violence (physicians too) but they fixed their otherwise hopeless marriage. They eventually accepted there will be cycles of fighting and knew they could handle the difficult times after going through them for so long. Now they actually love each other again. You and your husband have been through a lot and you can make it through this in my opinion. It seems if you adjust your expectations and have more patience, on top of the patience you've had, you'll find in five years that it was worth it.
I don't know, I am not really feeling loved by my husband. Rather I feel he tolerates me and on a good day he may actually act like he likes me. But overall he remains the same person despite the few times he promises to give me what I need in this marriage. I am realizing that I continue to settle for crumbs in hopes of somehow saving this marriage.
I continue to work on myself but the resentment builds and builds. He comes home from work, grunts at me and barely engages. He's returned to simply criticizing whatever he perceives as a deficiency and barely acknowledges all I do in the house. I do all the housework, 90% of the child care in the evenings and keep up on all the basic stuff. I keep myself attractive and smelling good, meanwhile he falls asleep on the couch, or the spare bedroom floor and just mopes about. I've tried approaching him gently on how alone and sad I feel about this chasm between us but he basically sits with his eyes closed and mumbles some responses.
It's getting to the point where I can't even feel bad about divorcing this man. I feel relief when I think about no longer wondering when the other shoe is going to drop. I feel a weight lift when I think about no longer having to "fake it till I make it." I can start having friends and family over, something I have avoided because he does not like having visitors.
Tonight I took care of everything by myself and WH worked late, something he's been doing a lot of. He demanded why I didn't text him and tell him I didn't cook dinner. This is weird because he will either eat late or text me on the way home to see if dinner is here or if he needs to pick something up. I feel like he is looking for reasons to yell at me. He griped at me a few minutes after I showed him a sweatshirt I bought for him as a surprise. I felt really hurt and angry. I am pouring my heart and soul into this marriage and he returns a tepid response at best. I have a timeline in my head, I will simply drop the hammer if that deadline comes and he is still acting like this. I think if I finally green light the divorce there is NOTHING he can do or say to turn my mind around.
Ok, but what are you going to do when the cycle repeats again? People keep mentioning it and you ignore it. I get that it is your right, but please understand that it is pointed out because sometimes people further removed from a given situation can see patterns where people in the throes cannot.
If you file again, he will be nice, you will have second thoughts because you are a great mom and someone who honors vows. You will fight for your marriage. He will go through the motions. Then he will stop and you will become frustrated and return back to this point.
What can you do differently in your part, to either ensure a different result, or at least to get to a different point in the dance where he has to respond differently? I'm not saying I know the answer, I just hate seeing you bang your head against the wall and I lived this exact life and pattern for 5-6 years until I discovered a hidden 3 year affair and his hostility was so offensive that it destroyed everyone in the home and my children asked me to make him leave.
Mine is also a doctor, highly intelligent, very narcissistic (sorry Vanilla, I get to say that), and extremely passive aggressive. I am also a professional (an attorney), extremely pro-marriage, and someone who absolutely hates to give up on people. I still hold out some hope for his relationship with his children, but right now he is in replay city and has no concern for them whatsoever.
Honestly I feel I've tried every single thing to turn this around. DBing is about making yourself a better person that only a fool would leave. I've marinated in the teachings, one thing is for sure, the board describes very different techniques than the books and videos. I've tempered my anger, worked on my gentleness and openness (these are all 180s for me) and buttoned my lips when my impulse is to verbally lash out. I've followed the guidance of my DBing coach and even he seems to have run out of ideas in the end. I haven't even used my last session because the advice and guidance was becoming repetitive.
I went back over my old notes and find I am following the guidelines for "influencing" my husband to turn back towards our marriage. I've kept the road paved back home and he just sits at the end of the street not moving towards me. I've read a dozen books, hundreds of threads and postings, watched videos and been receptive to change within myself. I've faced some hard truths about myself and worked on them. I am SO ANGRY at myself for choosing this man to father my children. I chose him because I thought he was one of the most honest, loyal, faithful and kind people I had ever met. He is unrecognizable to me now. I know we aren't supposed to file until we feel neutral about it but I am furious and it's starting to effect me again. I don't know why I am posting, I just feel so...despondent.
Love isn't enough.
Love doesn't hurt, put down or ignore.
Friendship doesn't even do that.
Extreme self care psy. Extreme.......
V
Then maybe asking him to leave the home and work on himself and to figure out what he wants and not to come back until he has a game plan and a proven track record over a longer period of time is the game changer that you are looking for.
I so relate to the anger at yourself. I feel that I cheated my children. I chose a monster who has no feelings and can't give them what they need. I hope yours does better than mine going forward.
I will tell you that all is not lost. I have one child at Juilliard and another who, after a disastrous 8th grade year, looks like he is going to come up with a 4.0 for his first semester of 9th grade at the best school in our state with a desire to attend Princeton.
Children can thrive in a household with one parent who loves them, cares to their needs, and guides them with boundaries and strength.
We are so much closer now. They have told me that they now view both of us as human beings and not "parents". I think that is a good thing. They see that people are not perfect, that things go wrong, and that bad times can be overcome.
Sara, You must be exhausted. From the outside it seems like you need paid help in the evenings and more help in general. Perhaps your husband isn't reacting to your changes not because he doesn't notice but because he's depressed or unhappy in this stage of life and doesn't know what to do about it. Perhaps you can work on showing empathy to him and validating how you think he must be feeling. It's so hard to know what your day-to-day interactions with him are like. If you describe them in more detail then maybe we can comment, but even then we're only reacting to your side of the story.
There's always the chance that your husband is having another affair, but hopefully not. Maybe he's ashamed of how he's acted in the marriage and doesn't know how to express himself.
It doesn't seem like divorce is the answer. That's what I raised to my husband after I was sure there was no hope and now that's what he wants, and now I don't want it. I never wanted a divorce. Maybe you need a separation for a while. Or, maybe you need to do more to show your husband that he's worth fighting for. Maybe you need to encourage him more. Flatter him, tell him how great he is for every little thing he's done.
I guess you've tried all that already, right? I just don't know, but you at least need to be separated before you can feel that divorce is what you want.
Sara, You must be exhausted. From the outside it seems like you need paid help in the evenings and more help in general. Perhaps your husband isn't reacting to your changes not because he doesn't notice but because he's depressed or unhappy in this stage of life and doesn't know what to do about it. Perhaps you can work on showing empathy to him and validating how you think he must be feeling. It's so hard to know what your day-to-day interactions with him are like. If you describe them in more detail then maybe we can comment, but even then we're only reacting to your side of the story...
I guess you've tried all that already, right? I just don't know, but you at least need to be separated before you can feel that divorce is what you want.
Sara has done everything as far as working on herself... she has gone above and beyond in her efforts to relate to her H... she has demonstrated forgiveness, she has validated... she has given H the benefit of the doubt... she has looked passed H's cruel and painful behaviors toward her... it is so much more than the original A... there is that--yes... but it's all the thoughtless, unreasonable, unkind actions he has thwarted toward her since the A... he only responds in any positive way when she has determined to leave him... this has happened a few times in the last year and a half...
it's to where we can all see it coming... she decides to walk away for her own sanity, well-being, serenity... he suddenly realizes the error of his ways... he proposes that she put off the D so he can show her he really wants to be married to her and is willing to provide her with what she needs... he makes a few token changes for a short time... she continues to be a wife that only a fool would leave... eventually, he falls back to his usual ways where he is not there for her emotionally, physically, spiritually... she experiences great angst--tries to grasp at why she isn't enough for him...
those of us who have been following her sitch can see the cycle... we can see that it's not her--at all... what she is living from cycle to cycle would be enough to drive any right-minded person insane... she would benefit from doing something entirely different...
Own-It's suggestion is brilliant, in my opinion... if provides a way for PsySara to move on without giving up on the marriage... it provides a way for her to let H do the work, the heavy lifting before coming back into the MR, something that she has not required of him thus far...
PsySara--i feel for you... i sense that you are in a place of where you are running out of mental resources... i know you want more than anything to keep your family intact... perhaps going about it a new way (Own-It's offering) where you can keep yourself mentally, physically and spiritually healthy, will give you a better chance at not only the life you want, but a better life in general... please don't stop sharing here...
--artista
Perhaps he has scrambled eggs for brains. No one else concern but his.
What matters is what you think psy.
V
I am heading out to run some errands so I will address the suggestion of separation. In the past I asked WH to leave the home and find an apartment or whatever. He flatly refused, his response was, "This is my home too until the divorce is finalized. I won't be looking for any place to stay until it's court ordered."
Yes psy I got that too.
Eventually the G left, he threatened, left and I in relief called his bluff and changed the locks.
V
I think I'm done. Tonight WH basically told me I have to ask permission to even talk to him. We were discussing the care of the dogs eye stains and I was starting to tell him how I was about to try a new technique. He told me he didn't even ask and I basically talk too much. This was after an entire day of barely talking. It's fairly clear to me he doesn't respect me, he doesn't even care if he hurts my feelings. I wouldn't treat a stranger on the street with as much contempt and apathy as he treats me. I think I've turned every stone and it's time we had the D Talk tonight. I've given it my all and I don't even like being near him anymore. I dread coming home and find reasons to put it off. I find excuses to be in another room than him. Frankly if he's cheating again it would only give me relief as it would just emboldened my decision.
I don't fear single parenting anymore. I do fear the repercussions on my children as I cannot turn back time and find them a good example of a husband and father. It's time, I will call my lawyer tomorrow and have her re-start the process of D. I tried and unfortunately will not be a successful DBer. It's my baby's 2nd birthday today and I've just felt lonely and sad remembering his birth 2 years ago. WH was in the room but cold and barely talked to me, even when pushing he would not hold my hand. What a despicable @sshole.
Sounds like it's time to let go. He's not making any semblance of an effort, and really, who needs to walk on eggshells all the time around a perpetually irritated person?
PsySara, have you thought about how you will handle things differently if he asks you to hold off on proceeding with the D so he can win you back?
Sure, continue with the divorce. He has proven multiple times that his words mean next to nothing. As a matter of fact they usually indicate the opposite of what's likely to occur. I have reached critical mass and there is really nothing that will convince me at this point he is recoverable. He will be wayward his entire life, even if it's not cheating it will be always trying to get away with bare minimum so he can have a maid, bill payer and child care provider. I guess I have become a walk-away, but unlike other walk-aways I've tried everything under the sun to save a marriage he burned to the ground. He does not show me even the slightest signs of caring or respect. I know I can do better and I am sick to death of waiting for him to even reach 10% of what I need in a partner.
PsySara, I'm so sad and sorry to hear it's come to this. You've been through so much. It's understandable that you've reached the end-of-the-rope. I was hoping so badly that there'd be a breakthrough for you. I still haven't been able to read all your threads but I see Artista's response above saying how you've tried everything under the sun. I really wonder what's wrong with your husband. It's so sad when we look around and see all the happy and loving couples with their happy kids and wonder why we can't have that? I hope you do have it though with a new and wonderful man who worships you and loves your kids. I'll be keeping you in my thoughts and duaa's.
Well I told WH I was done and would be contacting my lawyer tomorrow as well as my CPA to get my financial affidavit together. He just nonchalantly said ok. I am a mixture of anger and deep, deep sadness. I am so sorry to my poor kids, I wish I had picked a better person to be their father.
It has been a while since I posted. I read your threads, you really tried everything not once but multiple times. It's time to break that cycle where you have been since many months now. It seems from what I read, that your husband has been "using" you for his own financial benefits. Anger and sadness are normal, you are grieving what you thought should have been but won't. I just read something today: "Sometimes God closes doors because it's time to move forward. He knows you won't move unless circumstances force you. Trust God alway!"
You are much stronger that you think you are, you have been through terrible events, those events have built strength in you. You are not the same anymore, you are a warrior and whatever life will throw at you, I am pretty sure you will figure out something.
Now I understand that your next fear is going to be your children custody. Take a big breath, and ask yourself does he really want the kids 50/50 or it's just a mean to negotiate something else. Do you really think he can handle 3 kids full day and night for several days in a row... let him having a taste of it during the divorce process (make it not fast) then wait and see.
I hoped it wouldn’t come to this. The similarities between both us and our wh have been uncanny, so i feel a connection to you. But you have tried everything, i don’t think you can label yourself as a walk away wife, because you so aren’t. You’ve tried everything and more and given your all. He has no right talking to you like that, like you say, you would talk to a stranger nicer than that. And as a Muslim man, he should know to respect a woman, especially his wife better. Hold your head up high and proceed. Treat yourself, get that new bag or new shoes you’ve seen. Or treat yourself to a little makeover (or the in home spa like i often have), and take good care of yourself. To be honest, when he is gone- don’t be surprised if you feel relief. It shocked me, i thought I’d be crying buckets, but i actually felt relief not to be treading on egg shells any more. And IF he is cheating, well what a prize someone has got!
“If Allah knows there is (any) good in your heart, he will give you (something) better than what was taken from you”.
Quran, 8:70
There is plenty good in your heart sister
Psy
You have done that which you needed to do for you. It is your right to say enough.
From where I am sitting you are a great DBer and I hope in time you will see and understand that. There is much about your WH that reminds me of the G. Compulsion, entitlement and emotional abuse.
Like V you are a professional woman and you have stood for M, if not for WH. No regrets over that because it was that which you needed. No avenue explored, that is a woman who values M and loyalty. Someone who truly committed to her vows, someone who has gone beyond.
This is a very brave step today.
A long time coming.
Peace dear lady, breathe, life begins today.
V
PsySara, how are you doing?
I was thinking about you tonight. I remembered something I read about Madonna-Whore complex. Have you heard of it? It's a phenomenon where the husband stops desiring his wife, who he sees as a saint and who he admires, and starts to desire beautiful women who he doesn't respect. I remember seeing that your husband cheated with a younger woman (guess what, mine's now with a nurse 14 years younger than me!) and wonder if this is relevant to you? Maybe your husband stopped desiring you at some subconscious level even though I'm sure you're better and more beautiful than any other woman he could have.
I hope you're making progress with figuring out the next steps. I guess we'll both go through divorce at the same time.
Well I am waiting to hear back from my lawyer as I had to cancel my appointment with her to go to a mandatory meeting at work. Things are basically fine between WH and I, we are polite even have funny conversations. He continues to talk about "us" in the future tense and I just remain silent. It's bizarre, I don't feel much of anything about him right now. I picture future as co-parents and feel no distress.
NicoleR,
My WH's cousin also brought up the Madonna/Wh0re thing and I definitely feel there is something to is. The OW was 17 years younger than me, not a full RN but an LPN, and has JUST turned 21 and celebrated it by drinking to blackout and maybe getting raped. (this is where he stepped in as her KISA and took her to the ER the next day) There are so many things that fly in the face of our religious beliefs with this OW I don't know where to start. It clearly was more about WH looking for a way to not face his middle age, his responsibilities and the reality of his life. She was basically an empty vase to pour his own desires and fantasies into.
My resolve to D is just getting stronger. This morning the nanny texted em and said she was sick and could not come to work. I told WH (it was his day off) and he immediately became angry. He told me if I didn't dock the nanny's pay (my responsibility financially) that he would not get the kids ready for school and just keep them home. I stood very still and coldly stared at him, I then told him I was getting ready for work and not to ever give me an ultimatum again. There was more to the argument but in the end WH went back to bed. I texted my supervisors I would be late and got the kids up, fed them and got them dressed and homework sorted. I brought DD to her bus stop and once she was picked up I took DS5 to his preschool. I then dropped off the van and went to work. Not a peep from WH today.
I got off early and came home before the kids were home. A few minutes later WH comes home from picking the kids up and had bought food for them and himself but nothing for me. This was after yesterday I made sure to bring home dinner for WH and the kids. I think WH is just not capable of having ANY insight into his mean and selfish behavior. There has been no apology or even barely a greeting from him when I got home. I will follow up with my attorney on Monday and make sure the paperwork is restarted.
PsySara,
Do you believe your nanny was really sick? Does she normally come every day? That doesn't sound fair to dock her pay if she's sick. If she has something contagious she could pass it on to all of you. I know that's all beside the point, but we have to respect the people who take care of our kids. Too bad your husband said that and went back to bed. Moms never get a day off. Why should dads get that? The double standard alone is enough to drive one to consider divorce without even an affair.
Anyway it sounds like a hard life you're living with your husband. You don't necessarily have to choose between that and being a totally single mom, right? You could get an Au Pair to live with you in addition to the nanny so you have around-the-clock coverage. Surely you have your mom or a sister or aunt who can stay with you sometimes. Or you could get a daily cleaning lady or cook. Any of those sound better for your sanity than expecting anything from your husband.
I hope reactivating the divorce case ends this long period of uncertainty and pain. Either it will really end or your husband will take a radical, drastic approach to save the marriage when he see's you're serious and you'll have the power to say no or set extreme demands.
I hope it gets easier in a different way from this point. I also hope your kids are doing ok. I hope there'll be a happy ending to your story somehow....maybe the step parent possibility someday will give you the complete family you deserve.
I should clarify that I do recall a few posts where you've said your husband does help with the kids but it sounds like it's not in the husband / wife "let me take care of the kids today so you can rest" teamwork sense. Perhaps he's a great dad...sorry if my post sounded too judgmental!
We've had a live-in previously and it ended poorly. WH has a tendency to be highly critical of childcare help (not to mention when I had a cleaning service.) Was my nanny sick? Who knows, but it would likely end with her quitting if I decided arbitrarily to doc pay due to her calling in sick.
My extended family is extremely dysfunctional, my mother is addicted to prescribed meds, I have no sisters, all my friends work full time. The fact is, I shouldn't have to hire a live-in because WH doesn't feel like parenting on his "days off."
WH is a loving father who occasionally deals with the day-to-day mundane-ness of parenting. But the reality is I do 90% of their care. However if you asked him he would say it's 50/50. (rolls eyes) He does snuggle and play a lot which was enough to make me happy he was their dad. Now, with this naked display of selfishness and callousness it just doesn't seem worth it. He's back to barely talking to me unless necessary, face is clouded with a frown and irritation, and he stays in his office playing video games all day. I find this ironic since his main complaint to taking care of the kids was he would not have time to study. He's had oodles of time to study but he plays video games.
Hi,
Do you think that your husband might have some narcissistic tendencies?
When a parent refuse to care for his kids welfare just to bother the other parent, it shows that parent put his own needs first and it reveals something that shouldn't be ignored. When you are a real loving parent, you don't react that way. Sorry for the 4X4.
Sometimes we are trying to convince ourselves and we find whatever we can to justify that our beliefs are right.
Sara,
I am sorry you are moving forward with the D. Every LBS hurts for their children. Even I have started to convince myself that the kids will be ok. In the end, it is what it is. Find your happiness. It doesn’t need to include anyone else. Don’t worry about the small things...you won’t remember them years from now. Live in the present and enjoy your children.
(((Sara)))
PsySara, we have a lot of similarities! My family is also dysfunctional so I can't rely on them for anything. Live-in care isn't a magic solution either. Hopefully though you can get some help somehow...even a daily cleaning lady or something to make life easier. What you're going through is extraordinarily difficult and it's hard to do it alone. I know how it is though because I'm alone and have health problems and don't know how it's going to be when I soon go back to work full-time and have to panic running to the school before it closes and rush home to cook and clean when my daughter really needs me at that time. It would be paradise to have a husband who can do 50/50 to make sure our daughter always has a parent caring for her.
I hope your husband will help out regardless of what happens. At least your kids are growing and will be a bit more self-sufficient in the coming years.
I really do sympathize with you!
I have an appointment with my lawyer on Tuesday afternoon, let's hope I have the ovaries to carry this through to the end. I cam ehome today, had DD do her HW, started dinner, fed the pets and cleaned up after them and I look at the clock and realize WH is about 2 hour late. I just texted him asking if he was on call and he responds that he's slammed at work and will be likely leaving in 20 mins. This means that 100% of child care falls on me this evening (again) and he didn't even bother to warn me, I didn't know until I texted. It's this kind of thoughtlessness that has me convinced he will remain static.
His default is to just worry about his needs and feelings and everyone else is just a by-thought. He's remained clueless and this week was talking about financial stuff for the year. I've just mmmmhmmmmm'd because I've already told him I was resuming the D and I guess he thinks it was just something I said out of anger. But I am not angry right now, more irritated at his continued selfishness and immaturity. He's done nothing to make himself a better husband to me, he has spurts of being nice and mouthing the words but he is no more trustworthy than he was before. He makes all these promises and has dreams but lacks follow through.
Maybe I am angry.
Sara, if it's any consolation, your husband and your story are the same for many, many other women, especially married to guys from the Middle East / South Asia. The main difference is that you're not willing to settle for it whereas others may choose to suffer silently...
Sara,
Only you know what's the best for you. It seems obvious that he cares mostly about himself, don't be fool by the crumbs of "caring" he gives you or the kids from time to time.
From previous info you shared with us, living with you is his best financial option at that time, since you are paying for most of the family expenses while he is sending a lot of money abroad. He is saving money and keeping his lifestyle... and having he household done also without having to do anything or paying for it.
Also, he can still play the dotting father while you are in fact doing most of the work. It helps to keep his image intact to others.
He is not taking you seriously about filing because he believes that he still have some power over you (you are totally into him) so you will never do it and also you backed up so many times... sorry for the 4X4.
By the way, I totally understand why you threatened to file so many times and didn't do it, because it's such a major decision and you wanted so desperately to save your marriage so whatever words/promises he was saying, you were ready to believe them. If you take the time to reread your threads, you will notice that each time you were ready to walk out, he came with sweet words, promises and changed his behavior for a few days, just to calm you down. That's just plain manipulation, not real change.
Anyway, when you take a decision there is always pros and cons, just see what the best for you and your kids, but keep in mind that the behavior that your husband is modeling is not a healthy one.
Sara...
It is difficult to see you in much the same place as the last time I was here...
Many share the same sentiments that I have in the past.
I pray that you can step back, see him for what his actions continue to show the world and face the fears that hold you back from taking the actions that you and your family need in order to break out of the hold that he has maintained.
My prayers and thoughts are with you and your children. There is a life of peace and calm in the cards for you you. I pray that you have the courage and strength to make that journey.
((((Sara))))
Sara,
Hope you are ok. Just checking in...
((Sara))
Not much to report, I had to cancel my appointment with the lawyer on Tuesday due to a ton of patients being admitted. Last night WH and I got in an argument where he told me he didn't like me, he hates my personality and he doesn't care that I am hurt and angry over the affair.
Well, ok then.
I will be stopping by my lawyer this week and going full steam ahead. In the past when WH said these things to me it would make me dissolve in tears and sobs. Last night was different, I felt a cold rage and disbelief that I had fought so hard for such a selfish and immature person. My biggest mistake was choosing this @sshole as my children's father. Now they will have a dishonest, lazy and selfish father for the rest of their lives. I will be changing the outline of the custody agreement and going for primary. I don't trust him to be consistent with him, he is infamous for being a super dad but then I end up doing all the work. I don't think he will maintain their education and day-to-day lives if we do 50/50.
At this point I really just want him out of my house so I can move on with my life. I don't see us co-parenting but I will look into parallel parenting.
Dear Sara,
(((BIG HUGS)))
Your anger is totally justified and he is still trying to push your buttons to see how far he can get away with. He is losing his power/control over you and that's something that you WH cannot stand (see what's happening on HaWho thread). That's the very first time that you are really enforcing any kind of boundaries, he was always able to escape the consequences of his actions/words by being "charming" for a few days...
Be ready for him to get very nasty once you will file, avoid face to face communications, ask him to communicate with you through emails instead of messages, even better through your lawyers.
He will try to make you angry, to make you scream, to make your lose your mind, DO NOT FALL for that. Keep it very professional and short, leave the room if necessary.
Don't accept any deadlines from him, do only things if you feel like it and after having talked with your lawyer.
Keep records of everything, specially in regard of the kids.
Take pictures of what you have in the house, copy what you need to copy.
Protect your papers from him, get a safe at the bank.
Don't tell him what are your intentions ahead of time.
Reread your threads to find proofs.
He will try for sure to go for 50/50 so during the divorce proceedings (so he can pressure you to give up on few things or just to be plain mean...) you will have somehow to come up with some kind of temporary child custody arrangements, keep track about when/what he was supposed to do and what happened. Be very careful he is "nice", it means generally that he needs something that he is not to your advantage.
It's going to be tough, but once he will be gone from your house, you will feel more in peace, you won't have to walk on eggshells anymore.
You are stronger and tougher than you think.
You don't know what the future will be, but it seems that you reach a point where you feel you cannot live that way anymore. Trust your guts!
Nobody changes unless forced! Let him face reality and consequences.
Be ready for a few tantrums...
Tonight WH comes home and requests a talk for 10 mins after the kids go to bed. I agree and go about the evening routine. I sit on the couch and he sits across the room on the chair (something I've requested him not to do, he mumbles and it is frustrating to ask him to repeat himself.)
WH, "So I was at work today with a lot of emotions going through my head and I've decided I am not interested in this marriage."
Me,".....blink."
WH, "I am going to let my parents know this week once the paperwork is filed."
Me "Yeah, I agree which is why I will speaking with my lawyer this week and getting everything started again."
WH "You've said that before."
Afterward we discussed where he would live (close by, preferably where the kids could still be at the same bus stop and maybe even walk between houses.) Also I brought up putting my own cell phone in my name as well as car insurance. The convo left me sad and resigned. I had just completed a mandatory parenting class for divorce required in Fl. I look at my beautiful children and feel a sense of defeat, that no matter how hard I tried there was no reversing this course. I will make my children a statistic and exponentially raise their risk factors by divorcing this alien.
Forgive me my friends, I am not myself and probably won't be again for some time. I sometimes read the threads of others but don't participate as I feel like a hypocrite. So many times I fantasize about turning back the clock and picking someone different. Someone more authentic and deeply connected to themselves and make decisions based on goodness and kindness. Instead my children have an emotional cripple for a father, someone stuck in their early teens emotionally.
My babies, I am so sorry.
Sara,
I am sorry to hear this. You have done your best to keep the family together. You are strong, brave and beautiful. Your babies love you and that is what matters.
Reading your post brought back the feelings I had when I thought I failed the boys. It is not us who have failed though. You have tried everything you could to reach out and communicate to hold the family together.
There will be a whole new set of feelings and emotions now through the D process. I hope you have better and more tranquil in days to come.
(((Sara)))
Sara,
It's obvious that your H is still somewhere in his own world. Let him be!
Drop any kind of pursuit, don't try to make him care for the children unless he is willing too, because he is not the best example for them right now, may be later after reflecting on his situation. Like us, we need to detach from them, they need to detach from us.
Right now, he is blaming you for what's wrong in his life, once you will be out of it, he will finally be able to see things clearer. It takes a few months for that process to happen.
Your priority right now is your children, they need a strong mother so you are going take care of yourself mentally (yoga, relaxation, counseling, medication or whatever works for you) and physically (sleep, eating right, exercising..)
Yes, they are going to be impacted by that D but children are resilient when given the right support and example. When I was a mess, my children were a mess (depression/hospitalization...) and when I started to climb out of that deep hole, they followed me, they are now doing very well.
Be strong! By the way, it's Ok to cry and be angry, don't internalize those negative feelings, express them, write here, talk to someone or start a blog... You need to grieve your marriage and your past expectations, don't try to bury them otherwise you will never find peace or move really forward.
Remember you are a human being, so you are not perfect and it's OK to have ups and downs in the same hour.
Don't forget to have fun, look for the good/positive side of any situation!
You can now organize your life YOUR OWN WAY.
Find a good friend willing to listen to you every day, that's a lifesaver!
Just keep in mind that your mission is to raise those kids and they need a fun/loving/strong/determined mom.
((((HUGS)))
Paysara,
As you know your journey just started and won't be easy. I say it all the time this has been one of my toughest battle I have been fighting and am going on 11 months and my battle is starting as I start court this week.
Your H sounds like my W in the beginning she at first said to me there's a condo where am at we can be like neighbors in my head I was like WTF. and as she said it, it was like it was all plan and W just said it like we where Best friend I just listen how W said we can both walk kids to bus stop they can just walk over and we all be happy again I had this blank look in my face. I was still in shock as W laid it all out.
And ask me how is it going now. Lol nothing like W said or wanted she won't even co parent infact W said she never wanted the last two kids. Am hoping that never happens to you but always prepare for the worse our W/H are gone there story constantly change there plans change is like riding a death rollercoaster you just don't know what is next or what are their next move are. All you have control of is you and kids now. I know we at bd are numb is like getting hit by a semi truck and you just lost your H. Speaking for me this is how I kept my insanity because literally W after 3 days of family Vacation she says am unhappy, ILYBNILWY, to I just sign a lease moving out tomorrow. I honestly lost my other half my kids lost there mom. I say it all the time is like one day we where driving and head on semi truck struck us and I lost everything I knew only my kids and I survived. Because to me my W died my w is gone I honestly don't think W will ever snap out of it.
So survive this the way you can cope with it. We all have out own way to cope. But don't forget about yourself or kids. Your kids will need you more than ever this will be your toughest battle but you will survive.
Protect yourself and kids mentally and financially and we all know this don't believe anything your H says because he right now only cares about him. Hang in there.
A day at a time sweety. The sun will shine again.
Marina,
I've been DBing for 2 years, this is not fresh nor shocking. My WH cheated not once but twice with the same diseased wh0re and gave me an STD. I've gone to IC, dragged us to MC, took us to Retrouville and waited and waited. He's not changing.
I stopped by my attorney yesterday and green lighted her to submit the divorce. She said there's a it of back up but that it will be filed this week and likely WH will be served shortly thereafter. WH acts as if nothing is wrong. He came home late last night and spent over an hour on the phone with his family that he is treating to a full week at WDW. WH will be taking the kids that weekend as well. (I made it clear I am not having another awkward and weird trip to WDW like the last few trips, I'm done faking it)
I took care of the kids and put them to bed and he moped around the house and went to bed early. He bought an English bulldog puppy a month ago and I am now doing 90% of it's care. Typical. He gets new things and then quickly gets bored with them. The more detached I become the more I realize I don't like this man.I can't really find anything attractive about him. Looks-wise he looks much older due to balding and he's not fat but he is out of shape. These things don't usually matter to me but when you add the uncouth behavior (belching very loud, passing gas in front of me), the selfish and immature behavior, it makes me wonder what I ever saw in him?
As others have said, sometimes its not the waywards fog that is lifted, but the fog of the LBS.
Im sorry Psy. But you will be so much better off. My ex left over 2 years ago. For me it was getting over the gaslighting and cruelty. But i do not in any way miss my ex and his behaviors. Nothing changed for the worse for me since hes been gone. Its slowly getting better.
I know for you it was a matter of saving the marriage for your children. I said the same thing. I am the only person in my fairly large amd traditional family to be divorced. But my son has really handled this amazingly. I am glad that he will not be witness to my ex's selfishness and my resentment and our bickering and fighting.
Marina, i do not know your story but will try to catch up. I am thinking that its not your wife that died, but perhaps your seeing the real her. Peoples true natures come out when life gets real. It just takes a while to discover.
Let him handle his puppy, stop doing things for him! Send him a few messages with the puppy's schedule...keep the answers for your lawyer.
Since you H is a spender, try to make a list of his spendings versus what he contributes to the community, just to have a idea in case...
I doubt this will be helpful, especially since you have young kids, but when things started going south for us, W bought a dog. I made it absolutely clear that I wasn't taking care of it in any way, shape, or form. "Oh, don't worry, we (W and kids) love this dog and we'll take care of it!" But no one did. The only thing I would do is fill its water bowl because I felt sorry for it. It was so bad that I literally walked around an obvious steaming pile of $hit in our hallway for a week before someone else cleaned it up. After that, I think W got the message that it was her responsibility, not mine, and things got better. Yes, it was passive/aggressive, but I didn't go that route until more traditional methods failed, so I did something different.
If you just stopped taking care of this dog, what would happen?
BTW, with small kids, I wouldn't recommend leaving poop lying around, but maybe put it in his car with a note explaining why?
Sara, I'm very sorry to hear all these things. I live in FL too. I don't think we live in the same city though because I kind of know the Muslim community and physician community here. I wish there was a way to get in touch and meet up. I'm moving up North though on April 1st.
I'm sure you married your husband when the relationship was totally different. Before kids everything is different. You married the man you loved and you couldn't predict the future. I'm sure your husband loved you too and still does in some ways but doesn't see the good parts of the marriage at this time.
I do hope so much we all find new spouses in the future who give us everything we wished for so badly from our current spouses. Or I wish our current spouses would work to fix it with us. I still feel like there's no worse feeling in the world than to love someone so much, and work so hard to save the relationship, and get nothing in return except abandonment and betrayal.
If possible it would be great if you could take some time off work or reduce your workload temporarily to give yourself a break. I hope you can meet or know some women going through the same thing to support each other. I hope your kids will someday know how much you tried to make this work for them. They will always appreciate what you did. I'm sure they'll love you even more knowing how hard you worked for them.
Taking care of the puppy doesn't bother me, I have two French bulldogs and I just combine their care. It irritates me that he is neglecting a living thing after only having it about 6 weeks.
I filed this week and the lawyer will contact me when I can have WH served. Last night he went out to bowl with friends. I stayed home with the kids and we just relaxed and eventually fell asleep cuddled up together. Today WH is going out to some bike thing and will be gone most of the day. I actually look forward to him not being here, I can relax and enjoy the kids. I've always been a bit of a homebody so I am just chilling and playing with the kids. A friend of mine may stop by later just to hang out and chat.
In a few weeks WH will be taking the kids to WDW with some of his family, meanwhile he barely does any of the day to day child care. He has literally become the definitive "Disney dad." Oh the irony.
I signed up to take my boards this Fall and have been studying after I put the kids to bed, I am doing fairly well on the practice exams. I also interviewed for another job, it will be outpatient and lower demand for same pay. It is also about a 10 min drive from my home versus the 30 min drive I have twice daily. I really can't find any "downside" to this change. I will also have holidays off and no calls. Seriously, it's win/win.
My feelings are all over the place. I am grieving the fact that my children will be from a broken home. I am grieving the loss of my dream of a loving and strong marriage. I am grieving the loss of what I thought my WH was, it seems he never was the person I thought I married.
I worried about about my son being from a broken home as well. But living with my ex was a lot more broken then my current situation.
My son is not witnessing a really unhealthy dynamic and poor role model on a daily basis.
My ex is also a disney dad or maybe just a really good babysitter. While I still get annoyed, I am happy at the very unique bond I have with my son. It is a very special bond single parents seem to have with their children. I love that I get to make the decisions I feel are best for son without any input or argument as well.
Letting my ex go and focusing on how I was going to be the parent my son needed is empowering. I do not think my son is suffering for it. He would have suffered by witnessing and copying a very selfish man and how he treated me. Now, he will only see me with a partner that is really a partner.
A friend told me a few days ago: "you don't realize how much unhappy, miserable and asphyxiated you really are in a toxic relationship until it is finally over..."
Sara, you are a warrior, thinking already about your professional future is the proof that you are on the right path. It's ok to have those overwhelming feelings because you had been forced to turn the page on something you fought so much to save, allow yourself some time to express them.
Take the time to heal, to laugh, to be silly and even make fun of what you went though, yes you can... my H hates my funny jokes/references about his endeavors but I also joke about what I went though with my closest friends, it can be pretty hilarious. Having a good sense of humor was a lifesaver, at least for me plus a few good friends.
Now, another thing cross my mind, make sure to keep your kids' passports with you. Nothing wrong with being careful.
Keep track of his "time" with the kids during the week and the week end.
Kids are resilient if given the right support even by only one parent. I witnessed that not only with my kids but also with others, it takes time but with love and the right guidance they strive. The road might be very rocky sometimes (a lot at the beginning...) but keep your eyes on the finish line. Life is a journey filled with a few tornadoes, hurricanes, rainy and sunny days.
He is the one who failed you and your kids not you. So stop blaming yourself for whatever you might have in mind and turn your gaze to the present and the future.
Hi Sara,
I silently follow along with you. I am sorry that things have come to this. You sound (read) so strong. Others are reading and learn so much from you. You have done everything possible to fight for your M.
I think this is a huge loss for your H, and I imagine some day he will realize it. I believe you know your worth and that staying put is settling for less. You have already done that, and it doesn't work for you. We understand, and we support you fully! I hope the D process is as smooth as it can be. Please keep us updated.
Best,
Blu
So it goes...
Still living together but barely speaking to each other. WH will be taking the kids to WDW this weekend and I've chosen to stay home. I will probably go shopping with friends, hang out with my cousin and other stuff I rarely get to do. I'm looking forward to it honestly.
The few times we talk it's mostly WH having some criticism. (I locked the sliding glass door and checked three times, WH demanded I check it again and I told him he was welcome to do it, he did and started yelling at me so I simply walked out and went to work) I am so tired of being in the same house with him, there is nothing left inside me for him. I find myself fantasizing about guys at work and how it would feel to be in a relationship where I am loved and cherished. I'm in no hurry to partner and sometimes feel like I would be better off single. I just feel irritated with WH and want this divorce to be done.
I know my home will be more peaceful without the passive aggressive silences, the verbal jabs at me. The kids are doing ok and seem oblivious to the silence, which tells me they have become accustomed to non-communicative parents. This $ucks.
Sara, you have been dealing with this for a long time. Really. A LONG time. In-home separation is one of the hardest things I've ever tried in my life. I can't imagine 2 years.
I came here to DB with hopes of saving my marriage, but I realize that sometimes things just go bad. I'm good with that now and getting better with the idea every day.
I think you're making the right decision. If I am to be perfectly honest with myself, my MR was on a decline before I even realized it and now that I've started getting close to the other end of this tunnel I can breathe again. A big part of that is being away from WW. Things aren't GOOD, but they're not rock bottom either! A little bit at a time, right?
Your kids are going to be OK. It will not be easy. It will not be fun, and there will be challenges. But they are going to make it through. They will adjust. Kids are resilient, and even more so if they get support. It doesn't have to be perfect. They just need cuddles and love. They need to feel safe, and they need consistency (even if that includes a consistent parenting schedule). You be their rock, and they will build the foundation for their lives with it.
You can do it.
I am not surprised he is giving you the silent treatment because he is realizing that none of his previous tricks to have you back under his control are working anymore and you are out of hold. Most probably the live in situation was very convenient for him because it allowed him to have the "best of 2 worlds", having an easy life at home while doing the bare minimum and looking good as a devoted husband and father to others. But since you decided to tear apart that smoke curtain, he now is being shown as he is... and it's something very difficult for him to handle, the reality is not matching anymore the projection of himself that he wants people to think/believe of him.
Stay strong, he might get even nastier. Just don't get into any of his traps to engage you in verbal fights.
You took the right decision to file, you tried everything and beyond. It's time for you to live in peace, to stop walking on eggshells on a everyday basis. It's obvious that he is still in his own world of selfishness. There is nothing you can do about it, he has to deal with it himself and hope that one day he can, so you can co-parent with someone with a better state of mind.
Now that you file, how long will it take until the D? Is there any way you can ask him to move out legally?
One day at a time, look forward and see that light at the end of the tunnel. You are a strong and great mom.
(((HUGS)))
I cant wait for you to experience the peace that comes when living independently.
When i was living with my ex i remember always being sick...with illnesses that really did not reflect my lifestyle. Epstein barr, pneumonias, chronic coughs, kidney stones, melanoma.
I have not really been sick for a long while.
Just saying.
The divorce process ahead is stressful, but i feel like the phase you just came out if is the hardest.
(I locked the sliding glass door and checked three times, WH demanded I check it again and I told him he was welcome to do it, he did and started yelling at me so I simply walked out and went to work)
Oh, so he has OCD???
PsySara, that sounds like a good opportunity to have a weekend to yourself. That'll be a strange feeling!
When you do fall in love with a new guy in the future (I feel sure you will), you'll really really appreciate him. Maybe one of those guys at work is divorced? Not that you'd want to jump into a new relationship any time soon, but you could branch out a bit by socializing more and seeking support from a wide range of friends and colleagues, both male and female, and especially those who are divorced and know what you're going through.
My husband keeps saying "all the physicians at work are divorced...." As if it's so normal and common. If that's the case then it sounds like you'll have plenty of options.
I hope your kids are feeling ok. They have each other which is great. Hopefully your husband will find some motivation to work things out with you enough to give them a sense of security feeling both parents are on their side.
I hope this phase will pass quickly and you'll feel some sense of normalcy again. There's not really anything anyone can say at this time to fix how you're feeling but let's hope you'll pick up a few grains of wisdom and receive a few kind words from someone who cares about you as each day that passes. Maybe that's the best we can expect right now.
(I locked the sliding glass door and checked three times, WH demanded I check it again and I told him he was welcome to do it, he did and started yelling at me so I simply walked out and went to work)
Oh, so he has OCD???
He reads more like a narcissist who's realizing he's losing control, IMO.
WH was served today. When he told me that I was a bit surprised as my lawyer said they would coordinate the time with me. Oh well, onward and upward.
WH said I was still invited to go with him and the kids to WDW where they will be meeting some of his family. I politely declined. WH went on to say he was worried I would be home and lonely and he felt guilty. I told him I was looking forward to a weekend to myself, I truly am.
He started asking me what he was supposed to do but I shut that down and said he could seek legal counsel or go pro se. He seems to be leaning towards pro se which would be awesome for me as it would make for a swift divorce without $$$$. I am mostly STFUing and hoping he continues his passive method as it means a tactical advantage for me. He also started looking for places to rent nearby so the kids could stay in the same neighborhood regardless of which parent has them. I think he would start out with a bang but then end up being an EOW dad. He just doesn't have the stamina to parent half time. I'm not bringing it up, rather I will document his time spent (or not spent) with the kids on his days/weeks and readdress full legal custody in a year.
For now the kids are completely oblivious and I wish I could keep it that way. I think we will have him move out in steps until it seems a bit organic. I spend most of the time with them on the day-to-day basis so it will probably end up being background. One can hope anyways.
Lately I feel mostly just DONE with him. I need my home to be my safe place and right now it isn't. I need the eggshells to disappear. I also look forward to having friends over more often as WH made that virtually impossible as he hates visitors.
I wish you great peace psy.
V
Sara, you're a very strong person. I admire that you feel 'done.' I still miss my husband terribly. I wish I could lose that feeling. I hope your husband makes the divorce easy and fast. That'll be great if he lives nearby. I really wonder though how he'll feel when he's actually gone, living alone in an apartment away from the warmth and comfort of his family? Sounds depressing for him. I hope you and your kids will enjoy all the times you have people over and can have fun in your home without anyone bringing you down. It's good that you see positives in this situation. It seems you'll adjust quickly since you've already been through so much agony.
Nicole,
I miss the man I thought I married, but that man no longer exists or is so deeply suppressed he may never appear again.
WH came home today from WDW. We were cordial and chatted briefly. WH mentioned how hard it was taking care of the kids by himself but also complimented how well behaved the children were. The kids were in a serious need of a bath as well as DD7 needed her hair done. I tossed all three of them in the shower, scrubbed them down and unpacked all the children's things. They are now fresh smelling and exhausted.
WH awkwardly brought up how his family was asking when "we" would come visit. (the main reason I didn't want to go, I knew he'd punt that in my direction) He also mentioned that one of his aunts wants him to go to their place at the end of the month to screen a prospective groom for his cousin. My left eye brow raised in irony, how can he determine who is a good candidate for marriage when his M is being dissolved? His lack of insight is shocking to me even now.
Eventually WH excused himself and went to take a nap. Meanwhile I am still basking in the afterglow of a solid weekend all to myself. I started reading a new book, went out for meals with friends, bought some new clothes and then did some Spring cleaning. WH even commented how nice the place smelled and looked when he came home. I had a GREAT time and look forward to the occasional weekend to just do Sara. WH texted multiple times asking if I was ok. He said he felt guilty I was "alone and lonely" but I assured him I was neither. I felt like he was projecting his own issues with being alone on me, who knows?
This weekend showed me I would be ok with being a divorced woman. Furthermore I would thrive and probably get to unfold my wings for the first time in many years. I sense WH wants to broach reconsidering the D as he was faced with a bit of reality. I am at the point where I feel I need to D him. If he wants to woo me back post-D then he can give it a try. But unless I see 180 from him it's not going to happen. I've given too much of myself to go backwards again.
It seems that you reached an important step on your journey to reclaim your own life/respect. Finally, you are seeing how truly strong you are and that your own worth is not tied to what he thinks of you.
Let him face the reality on his own, meanwhile keep unfolding your wings to embrace that new freedom.
Yes, he might try to make you change your mind on the D because the way he was living had more pluses than minuses for him, but if he does ask yourself that important question "Does it do it because the discomfort and the hassle that the D will bring to his life are making his new life " way too uncomfortable " or because he had a truth change of heart/mind?"
Real change requires a lot of self motivation and time.
You really made me laughed about his aunt asking him about his opinion on the screening of a prospective groom. Maybe he didn't mention his current marital status to his aunt because he knows it won't look good for his image and he is not ready to explain why.
Take care, having a peaceful home is a gift.
Things continue to move slowly. WH called his-parents and told them HE was divorcing ME. I was like, WTF? He told thmem it was because we fight too much. I calmly asked him why he lied and he said he was afraid of the embarrassment. Same sh!t, different day. Ho-hum. His mom calls him every day crying and asking him to stop the divorce as she is worried about how this will make the family look. See the trend here? Don't worry about actually working on the real problem, your son being a cheater, but let's save face at all cost. (His mother knows he cheated because I called her shortly after and told her)
WH has been served over a week now but he has not responded. He keeps putting off actually reading the papers. If he drags his feet more than 20 days after being served then I can move for default. It would be typical for him to just sit there and get passively divorced, he never did like actually doing things he would not directly benefit from.
We continue to be cordial and impersonal. We had a R discussion the other night where he stated he felt we were getting divorced because I could not forgive him for the affairs. I clarified it was because he refused to do any of the work to make me feel safe and he had told me bluntly he felt no remorse. He seemed surprised by this. I was surprised his skull was much thicker than my original estimate.
Apparently, he sticks to his own side of the story... this is sad but it reinforces that your decision to file was the right one to made.
He is surprised by your stand because that the first time in so many years that you are actually standing to your decision and none of his "R talks" are making you change your mind. His little mind games are not working anymore. His power on you wore off.
Sarah, I'm so sorry you are enmeshed in this!
Sometimes we need to be grateful for the clarity the idiotic behavior can reveal.
Sounds harsh but think about it. If he seemed to be working on things, you'd be confused and torn.
But he's not. His choices could not be much clearer than saying he feels no remorse, and lies even now. It's like saying "and I will do it again and not care..." Because even now he's not sorry for what he did, he MAY be sorry for the cost to HIM...
Even now...
ugh but good for you. Clarity...it's a start.
and don't worry about IF or WHEN he responds to the filing.
A default judgement is fine! Talk about clarity
I find myself adrift. I can't find my center, my sense of self. I've been having a really down day. I didn't take the kids to Islamic school today, I just kept breaking down in tears at random moments and didn't want to be at the mosque when this happened.
I looked at WH this evening and felt such a sense of loss and emptiness. This dark sadness permeates me today, blackening out my ability to be optimistic. Maybe this is a hormonal thing or just me realizing the new normal. I am not happy at work right now and continue to put my feelers out for a more supportive work place. My time is very constrained with a large workload and then the evening jobs of child care. GAL is difficult when you have three little ones in tow.
I wish life were different. I wish my path had not gone in this direction. I think I need to consider restarting antidepressants.
(((HUGS)))
Sarah, you are grieving the loss of your marriage, that sadness is somehow normal, it's painful and I totally get it when you are talking about breaking down in tears, I went through that phase after OW2, I was a wreck. I went to see my GP and he prescribed me AD for just a few months but they helped me to function on a daily basis so I could take care of my kids. So if you think you need them, take them, there is nothing wrong about asking for help, you are going through a very difficult time right now and remember you are human not super human. You need to take care of yourself not only for you but for your kids.
You are right now in a phase of grieving but also in a phase of healing, you are very fragile and you need to recover from the massive earthquake that you went through, so stop pushing yourself to do everything as usual, it's ok to skip/cancel some activities/obligations if they are not vital. Burn out is a real thing, specially for women, just do what is strictly necessary. May be ask him to help you, at least it will give him a taste of what he will have to do if you share custody and if he refuses, take notes of it. Remember you will have to coparent with him for many years to come. May be send him a plan where one day you care for the kids and the next day that's his turn... or something else...
GAL is not easy with 3 kids, so instead of going out to see your friends, they can come to visit you or if you have a good friend, call her/him on a regular basis. And sometimes, Gal could be just doing nothing at home, watching a good movie with a nice ice cream. Also, ask him to take care of the kids
You wrote about a new job closer to your home a few weeks ago, any news about it...
PsySara, I have so much sympathy for you and those feelings you describe sound so familiar. To some extent the loneliness is to blame. The loss of a partner and void that can't be filled, and not having time to socialize much with people your age because you're a mom with young kids. It's difficult. There's no easy way out except if you have the option of reducing your work hours temporarily perhaps you'd benefit from some free time while the kids are in school during the day. I'm still struggling a lot myself but I'm trying to re-train my brain a little bit to think into the future. I can barely breath knowing my husband is enjoying his life with his young girlfriend while I lost everything and have to start from zero. But then I try to remind myself that my husband may have temporary happiness with his girlfriend but there's a high chance they won't be together forever, or at least not this happy forever. I try to think that I may have lost the beautiful house where I was supposed to live and it feels like I'll never live in a nice place again, but I've met people who were divorced a long time ago and now live in their own house. So I'm trying hard to have enough patience to let this stage pass even though I'm still barely making it through a lot of days. I'd like to try a low dose of Zoloft but I'm also moving in three weeks and will be close to friends and will start working again, so I'm thinking to hold off. I also have some hope that once my daughter and I are far away from my husband that he may feel the loss just a little bit. That's my thought process. It's not a great one, but I guess it's helpful to compare notes at least.
Most of my friends are physicians and my husband is one too. Tonight I was at the ER all night with my friend who just delivered a baby yesterday and her husband had to stay home with the baby and her other kid. The doctors and nurses were so busy and stressed. I honestly don't know how you do it with three kids. Don't you feel physical pain in your back and legs by the time you go to bed at night? Don't you feel lightheaded or dizzy? How do you even find time to eat or shower? It's amazing that you're doing all this. I wish you had a husband to tell you how awesome you are. I wish everyone could see what a hero you are. But you, like many moms and professionals, are doing their jobs quietly with very little recognition.
I had a difficult job and when I was in my 20's I have one uncle who said one day "I felt sorry for you." All those years growing up I didn't think anyone noticed, but it turns out someone did! I hope someone special in your life notices what you're going through and makes a special effort to help you get through it. Sometimes we need some special person during times like these. You need a real life angel for what you're enduring!
I hope you'll pass this stage and will someday have your husband begging at your feet for forgiveness and will either set your own tough conditions or you will have already found someone new by that time.
Take care and get some rest!
Correction - I meant to say "I had a difficult childhood...."
So things are hanging in limbo for 6 more days. If WH doesn't respond to the served papers then I file for default and things proceed forward. I received an email that the court date for the case management in mid April (we have to present our financial affidavit, the parenting course and I provide proof that DD7 has been registered for a special divorce parent class.) It's actually scheduled on my birthday, kind of mixed feelings about that.
WH continues to act like a controlling but lazy @ss. He tried to pick a fight about the sliding glass door again. HE said it wasn't "locked" properly, I had already pulled on it very hard. Of course when I tried to point out that it was definitely locked he snapped at me and then stomped out of the room and went to bed. I can't wait for him to no longer be here, I will be able to relax in my own home.
As far as I can tell he has not gone to a lawyer or even opened the mail from the family court. He's in a for a NASTY surprise if thinks the judge will be lenient on him about not having his documentation or work done before the court date. Of course he doesn't even know about the court date because he has not opened his mail. I've made an appointment with my CPA to get my financial affidavit prepared before the court date. I signed up DD7 for her class (it's 4 days before the court date) and I've done my online parenting class. I just want this to be over with, I can honestly say I've tried everything in the book to save this marriage but can't force WH to do the right thing.
PsySara, that's just bizarre that your husband hasn't taken any action. If he told you himself a while back that he doesn't want the marriage then you'd think he'd be actively participating in the divorce. When do you expect him to actually move out? When the divorce is finalized?
It really does sound like you've tried everything. It seems it's either divorce or endless years stuck in the same cycle and divorce may be harder in the short-term but it seems you are ready to move on and you have the confidence to know you do have a shot at meeting someone else if you ever wish. I hope this does pass quickly for you. Do you have anything planned for when the divorce is final, like a vacation?
I've asked WH to move out in the past and he made it clear he would not move out until the divorce was final. In the meantime I've been working some extra shifts on the weekend to pay off some debt. Once I am completely on my own I will be investing in some stocks as well as being more aggressive about getting my retirement/savings squared away.
Today was the day that it goes to default, I emailed my lawyer last night so she would file as soon as the deadline hit. I also managed my financial affidavit yesterday and requested that our taxes be filed married but separate. We owe a sizable debt this year to the IRS and my part is only 1/3rd. WH is so weird, he is so savvy about investments but doesn't seem to get tax law. He actually thought we would get a return. I already knew our combined income mixed with his capital gains would make us owe. WH freaked out when he realized how much he owed. His financial decisions (he owns 6 motorcycles, 2 cars to just himself) have been disastrous these last 2 years. Meanwhile I have bought some nice things but mostly have aggressively been paying off my student loans from medical school.
Things are tense, we barely speak, keep it to household things as well as kids but he will look at anywhere but me. I can't remember the last time he made eye contact to talk to me. It's fairly clear he is back inside his own head and playing the victim. He's off this week with the kids during their spring break. I came home to a wrecked house, the kids still in their jammies and found out they only ate pancakes and ice cream. DD7 said they basically stayed indoors and played on ipads. DS2 was still down for a nap at 5 pm when I walked in the door. I was pissed. Now he will be up half the night and I will have to manage the dinner/bathtime routine/etc., while he "goes to work to sign some paperwork." I can't wait to no longer be married to this manbaby.
He's off this week with the kids during their spring break. I came home to a wrecked house, the kids still in their jammies and found out they only ate pancakes and ice cream. DD7 said they basically stayed indoors and played on ipads. DS2 was still down for a nap at 5 pm when I walked in the door. I was pissed. Now he will be up half the night and I will have to manage the dinner/bathtime routine/etc., while he "goes to work to sign some paperwork." I can't wait to no longer be married to this manbaby.
Sara,
These comments touched a sensitive spot with me. The way your are feeling and thinking sounds like how my xW felt and thought about me sometimes. Men are not perfect, we are different. Don't be angry, there are better days ahead for you and your children.
(((Sara)))
I am not expecting perfection but he has done this the entirety of our marriage. He begged for each child and then left me to do 90% of the childcare. Now that he wrecked our marriage and still acts like an @ss I can't really see any reason to give him excuses for his shoddy behavior. Yesterday I came home and the kids had only eaten breakfast (it was 5 pm) and they were melting down because he couldn't be bothered to actually give them a snack. This angers me because it is more of the same, his immature and inconsiderate behavior. Meanwhile he is cold and grunts answers at me, his contempt is evident in that he can't even show me the respect of eye contact and speaking in normal tones.
He is passive in the divorce too, it's been defaulted because he did not respond when he was served. His mail is piled up on the counter and includes the court date for mid-April and he hasn't opened it or read it. He leaves messes around the house and then criticizes how I clean (meanwhile he cleans nothing) and then critiques how I run the house. I am literally counting the hours until the divorce is final and I can show him the front door.
I find myself very angry that I chose him for a husband and to be the father of my children. He is lazy, mean and immature. The cheating really was the straw that broke the camel's back. Now he is flirting with females at his work and coming home and giving me shark eyes. I should have filed for divorce the minute I found out he was cheating.
PsySara, you have to admire people who file for divorce immediately when the first problem arises in their marriage because they know they just can't tolerate whatever it was (cheating, lying, etc..). On the other hand, when we marry, we're supposed to commit for life and divorce is technically supposed to the be the last option, not the first. At least you know you left it as the last option in your case. Your conscience should be clean and by suffering through all that you know for sure what you can and can't tolerate from the start in a future relationship. You also did this for your kids' sake. I admire you from everything that I've read here. I think you did the right thing.
Seems he is a bit extreme.
Agree with you, the straw that broke the camel's back for me was when she left in my marriage, when I filed for D I should have kept going on it in the first place. But I agree with NicoleR, you have done everything you can and confidently walkaway.
So sorry that you have to go through another ordeal, he is really trying everything to make you snapped. Take a deep breath and document how he manages the kids while you are not at home(in writing and in pictures). How long do you think, it might take until the first hearing? Can they ask him to move out?