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Working through recon. Life is full of mountains

Posted By: joejoe1

Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 12/15/17 03:14 PM

Old thread

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2768510&page=11
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 12/15/17 03:50 PM

Update,

Recon is hard as hell.

My wife is really invested in our M and making it work.

She wants to get through all the work needed so we can get to a healthy M.

We went to MC on Wednesday and it was good. The counselor talked about herslef a little to much, but we IDed some areas we need to work on. Trust, being nice to each other and being supportive to each other.

We have been getting ready for Christmas around the house and we communicate a whole hell of alot better. When a arugment seems to arise we both step back and listen to each other and get to the bottom of the problem.

But heres the problem. And I know people would die to be in my place, but my emotional state is all over the place. Some days I want to run and start all over.

I tell myself I want to not work on trusting a person. I want it to just be there (unrealistic I know). I just want to hide some days. I have to constantly remind myself we didnt get here just because of her actions.

I love my wife to death, but it's true that I do get feelings of maybe I deserve better, then I start to feel guilty. What, I feel guilty. The mountains we have to climb in life can be huge sometimes.

My W really sees us as coming out of this as a whole lot better couple. I want to feel that as well. I read about it all the time, how couples M become a hell of alot better after infidelity.

I also have read it can take up to two years to regain trust. Two years, wow!

My W and I are going to write up a text to send OM.

She has been really open about their R. But I still catch her in some lies about what they have done. She says she feels shame and disgusted with herself to think about what she did. I want every detail and she tells me going back to some of those details really depresses her. She don't fight or get defensive when we talk about it or I tell her she's lying. We don't talk about it much anymore.

She has a day planned for me tomorrow. I don't know where we are going its a surprise. I'm really looking forward to the time alone with her.
Posted By: Subitai

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 12/16/17 02:13 AM

Glad you are noticing and dealing with the emotions. Listening to yourself and analyzing your feelings without just reacting to them is great! I have spent years hiding from my emotions and suppressing them.
Posted By: Nrthman

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 12/16/17 03:54 AM

You say you want to know everything... you know there was infidelity and your wife is slowly putting forward the whole story. I agree that if you need to have all the details she should provide them that being said if you want recon you may not want to have all the details. Itís a mental picture that will never go away. And letís face it our imagination can make things so much worse we tend to add our own twist to stories give by our W.

Good luck moving forward in.
Posted By: neffer

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 12/16/17 04:03 AM

I agree with Nrthman, jj. Do you really need to know many details?
IMHO the more you get the more you lose...

Winds are blowing man, sail!
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 12/16/17 05:36 AM

Nrthman and Jeffery,

You both are right I need to let the summer go. My W has told me all I needed to know. I know she had an A. Don't need too much more than that.

Update 2,

W and I talked last night. I explained to her how I felt. I explained that I'm afraid of the future with her. I told her that the uncertainty is killing me.

She told me she wasn't going anywhere, she said it three times sternly. She grabbed and said she will be right here.

She told me that I was being unfair to her because me being uncertain is one of the reason she wanted to leave in the first place and she is trying hard. She wants certaininly like I want certainty.

I asked her again if she loved me more than the OM(she has told me this many of times, ibdont know why I keep asking). She expalined to me again she never loved him, but she was so mad at me and hated me so much, that she wanted to make herself love him. She told she wanted to love him but she couldn't, because of her love for me. She told me she understand she knows I constantly needs to hear assurance from her.

She told me if I felt I couldn't forgive her and let go of her A, let her know.

After that I needed time. I went in a room by myself. I had to really think through that comment. I prayed and asked for guidance.

She came to me and ask to pray for me. She did. I told her I need loyalty. She said we need love and patience with each other, that this process will take some time. I told her also need respect. She said she need all those things as well.

It ended with me feeling a lot better and her as well.

The mountians we have to climb in life.

Recon is hard as hell. Its no easier than trying to get them to come back.

Hard work ahead. Onward and forward.
Posted By: neffer

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 12/16/17 06:27 AM

Full forward. Set the sails!
Posted By: LITB

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 12/19/17 05:58 AM

Joejoe,
I am not completely up to speed on your sitch and what issues lead to the demise of your M/R. My questions would be:

What is different now, then when the wheels came off your M/R?

Have you improved your relationship/communication skills with the time that you since BD?

How are you with your detachment?

Originally Posted By: joejoe1
You both are right I need to let the summer go. My W has told me all I needed to know. I know she had an A. Don't need too much more than that.

You probably know more than you want to you. Itís a good time to leave well enough alone, especially since the uncertainty is killing you.
Originally Posted By: joejoe1
W and I talked last night. I explained to her how I felt. I explained that I'm afraid of the future with her. I told her that the uncertainty is killing me.

You need to lead your W and your family out of this sitch. Do the best with the things that are within your control and let her follow your lead. Hopefully you have grown while becoming a member of this great community. If you have, you should be ahead of your W in this journey.

As you know, life is filled with uncertainly. That shouldnít stop you from moving forward. There are no guarantees my friend. Whether it works out or not, you can look back knowing that you did your best either way. No regrets.
Originally Posted By: joejoe1
She told me she wasn't going anywhere, she said it three times sternly. She grabbed and said she will be right here.
She told me that I was being unfair to her because me being uncertain is one of the reason she wanted to leave in the first place and she is trying hard. She wants certaininly like I want certainty.

She is telling you that she needs you to gain your confidence and be strong. Confidence is attractive. Thatís not what I am taking away from this post. How do you get there?

Originally Posted By: joejoe1
I asked her again if she loved me more than the OM(she has told me this many of times, ibdont know why I keep asking). She expalined to me again she never loved him, but she was so mad at me and hated me so much, that she wanted to make herself love him. She told she wanted to love him but she couldn't, because of her love for me. She told me she understand she knows I constantly needs to hear assurance from her.

UghÖ.stop this. This is not coming from a place of strength. She is with you, isnít she? Keep asking questions like this, and I can assure you that things will go sideways again.

Originally Posted By: joejoe1
She told me if I felt I couldn't forgive her and let go of her A, let her know.

My interpretation: ďIf you want this to work, you need to work towards forgiveness. I will not live under these circumstances forever.Ē
Originally Posted By: joejoe1
She came to me and ask to pray for me. She did. I told her I need loyalty. She said we need love and patience with each other, that this process will take some time. I told her also need respect. She said she need all those things as well.

You need to earn her respect. Itís like trust. It is earned, not given.

Yes, you both need love, patience and forgiveness. There is no love without forgiveness, and there is no forgiveness without love.
Originally Posted By: joejoe1
The mountians we have to climb in life.

IndeedÖ.you can learn more from one storm, than a thousand days of sunshine. Itís amazing how motivated we can become when we are faced with a loss of something important.
Originally Posted By: joejoe1
Recon is hard as hell. Its no easier than trying to get them to come back.

For sure. Donít let the temptation of throwing your Wís sins in her face when things are challenging with her. It will serve you no good purpose.
Posted By: Joe2017

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 12/19/17 09:32 AM

I know how it is wanting all the details. It is hard because you will always compare yourself to this other guy.

Please don't stop GAL. I can't imagine what my life would be like right now if it wasn't for this forum and the concepts here. GAL is holding me together and keeping me sane.

It is also teaching me a whole lot about myself, and how to become better.
Posted By: AnotherStander

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 12/19/17 12:44 PM

Joe, it is very normal for a cheated on partner to know all the details of the A, and it is also normal for the cheater to want to bury it and never discuss it again. The two of you have to strike a balance there. Just understand that no matter what she tells you it's never going to be enough to satisfy you. At some point you have to let go and try to start rebuilding the trust.

And your lack of trust is also very understandable. It's great that the two of you are seeing a C, that will help. Just be patient with yourself as well as with your W, it will take a while to build the trust back up again. You're going to have your walls up a while, that's normal.

You are doing fine, recon is a slow process, hang in there!
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 12/19/17 01:47 PM

LITB,

I felt very weak in those moments. I felt super unattractive. Its funny because before we started recon. I didn't care and I was ready to move on. Now I'm like why the hell am I feeling like this.

One thing I realized, was my vulnerability was high. For the first time in our M, I start to open up and be venerable.

I have start to let my guard down some. Also for me, I realized my ego and pride was broken. I have to reestablish those. I cant let them over take me like I did before BD. But have to hold them in priority for me. I Also realized that my W can't help me with rebuilding those. They are mines to rebuild. She has shame and guilt to deal with.

During DB I was saying I just want her back. Now I just want the insecurity to go away. I know all these things will take time. Whats great is my W said she is willing to wait as long as it takes. Recon is hard work, M is hard work and getting past all the damage is hard work.

The mountains we must climb. But making it to the other side is where the reward lies. I clawed and scratched my way to this point now its time to stand a scale this monster. The other side here I come.

Also, it's been so muggy in Texas lately. And Christmas is a really expensive time of year. We are still decorating. Who else still have some shopping to do. I have one more present to get.

Onward and forward.
Posted By: Joe2017

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 12/19/17 05:13 PM

Brother, I am envious of your position. You get another chance. Make the most of it!

One thing you have to keep telling yourself is that she didn't cheat on you because of YOU. It's more of a reflection on her than it is on you. She made that decision without you.

If you weren't attractive, if you weren't a good man, if you weren't worth her time, she wouldn't be reconciling your M right now. She would be with OM2 or OM3 or some OTHER person out there.

She made the DECISION to come back to you. To YOU. I know you're feeling insecure but you're obviously an extremely invaluable part if your W's life. She came back to YOU, after all!
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 12/19/17 11:46 PM

AS and Joe,

Thanks for the support and awesome advice. I have to let go of what she did. I wont forget but I have forgave her.
Posted By: Holding

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 12/20/17 03:32 AM

JoeJoe, this will be a hard path for you. It's funny how every part of this process seems like the worst. I hope you get to a better place.
Posted By: Joe2017

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 12/27/17 11:53 AM

Joe Joe, I just wanted to check in with you and see how your holidays went with your W. Keep your head up.
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 12/27/17 04:34 PM

Joe,

Our Christmas was busy. My W stayed up until 430 am cooking. I feel asleep with S1 around 230 am. We woke up at 7 and watch the boys open presents. Then we went by the in-laws. The boys racked up at in-laws. They got every game system known to man.

We are still doing good.
Posted By: Joe2017

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 12/27/17 06:20 PM

That's great JJ, keep it up!
Posted By: trbuste

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 12/28/17 02:48 PM

Sounds like made some awesome progress, I am envious!
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 02/17/18 12:05 PM

All,

I haven't post about my Sitch in a while. I come back to give back because all the wonderful help I received when I first arrived here last August. Without it no telling where I would be now.

My W and I are working hard on our M. We have been to counseling and have more to go too. We are learning to communicate our problems better. We have look to going to Rville or EMS weekend in Austin.

She is putting in the work to help repair the damage.

I must admit, this is hard. I have broke down crying a few times in the last two weeks, because I wanted to just throw my hands up and give up. I wanted a divorce in my head and not my heart. It hurt so much thinking about leaving my boys. I shed those tears in front my W. She wants and feel this M is going to work. She has faith in us but the pain some days are huge.

She also broke down crying to me one day after a talk we were having and told me that she wakes up every moring with guilt and shame, she was shaking and hyper ventilating. And she told me she wanted to walk in front a bus. I coukd see the struggle she was going thru.

This process can't be rushed and there's no short cuts. We have decided to walk thru it together. I'm joyful on one hand and scared on the other.

The thougths of the A have lessen. And we are smiling and making each other laugh more.

I thought about posting in the recon thread but it's not very active and I think my post will help more people here. I go there looking for advice, but I talk to holding and he convince me I should post more to help others and possibly get some more help.

I also do counseling by myself. My counselor told me something the other day that stuck with me. I told him I'm have a hard time with the A and wanting to stay. I told him one of the things I'm having a hard time with is how my W told me she thought she was in love with OM and how she cut it off. He asked me a few questions and one of those questions was, how did you treat your W before the A, and I once again had to remind myself I treated her like crap. I told him I wont take responsibility for the A. He told me, what if the only way for my W to live with the guilt she had was to tell herself she was in love with the OM. Is that a possibility. I told him yes that is. My W told me multiple times that she thought she was in love with the OM because I how she felt about me.(Im putting this here because, the fantasy is full of false emotions). So we have to get out the way as LBS and let them go, so those false emotion is hit with reality. My W also told me she knew that a relationship with the OM wasnt going to last.

For V day my W bought me a new silicon wedding band. I told I wasnt wearing another one until she bought it.

I hope this help!!!!! I want to put this here so when others start recon and repair they have a place to have an idea of what to expect.

Only hard work ahead.

Onward and forward
Posted By: marina7

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 02/17/18 02:41 PM

With God anything is possible. Wish ya 50 more years of happiness. God bless
Posted By: Holding

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 02/20/18 03:41 AM

Hey JoeJoe, I'm glad you decided to post.

It sounds like IC is going well for you. We all played a part in the issues of our MR. There's always room for growth and self improvement.

I know the work is hard, but it's worth it.

Originally Posted By: joejoe1
For V day my W bought me a new silicon wedding band. I told I wasnt wearing another one until she bought it.


This is awesome! Congrats!

Onward and forward!
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 02/20/18 04:33 AM

joejoe, do not be afraid to shop around for counselors. Counselors using your time to talk too much about themselves is a huge red flag. My wife went to IC years ago and had the same experience. It really soured us on spending 1000s on counselors, and we didn't pursue IC or MC for 17 years because of it. Don't let that happen to you.
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 02/20/18 06:11 AM

H,

It's def worth it. I'm having trouble with my own emotions. I think it's a natural occurrence for the betrayed going thru this process from all my reading and video watching. I'm all so grateful for you lending me your ear as well. It's a process that can't be rushed. My W is actually putting in the work. But my triggers are off the chain. I'm working too minimize them as best as possible.

Steve you are absolutely correct about getting a counselor that works. Our counselor was not too bad last session. She also allowed me to correct her. She was trying to explain something and I told her that what she was explaining didn't make sense to me. She thanked me at the end of session and said she won't be using that explanation no more. She also help my W identify points in her emotions where she needs to communicate with me before she's get to the point of shutting down. It was a good exercise for my W. I will be doing the same exercise next visit.

The exercise, had my W layout emotions and for every emotion ID and describe the action she takes during those emotions. She explained to my W if she communicate at one of her first emotions she could eliminate ever getting to the point of shutting down.

We have been communicating really well lately. We still have our moments, but we now talk thru them.

She told me yesterday, that she wish our first 7 years of M was like the last few months. I knew in my head because we were poor communicators and ignorant individuals in a broken M. Now we are doing the work and it's paying off.

Onward and Forward
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 02/20/18 06:13 AM

I hope I can say the same in a few months! Great work and keep it up.
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 02/20/18 06:36 AM

Steve,

I hope so as well. Hope is a powerful thing. I will pray for you and work my hardest to keep up with your thread.

You are putting in the work and that's what counts.

Onward and forward
Posted By: Jim1234

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 02/21/18 12:59 AM

JJ, please continue to let us know how it's going. I get a lot of inspiration from your posts.
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 02/21/18 01:17 AM

Originally Posted By: Jim1234
JJ, please continue to let us know how it's going. I get a lot of inspiration from your posts.


^^^^
THIS
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 02/28/18 03:16 PM

Thanks all,

I lurk, but it's hard coming here. I feel obligated to give back, since I received so much wonderful help here. Without this place I wouldnt be where I am now.

I hate seeing all the pain, destruction, and trauma caused by WS and WAS. I dream and wonder howo you all look and how wonderful people you all are. I wish you all well.

I must admit, that info on recon is not huge. Also, finding people who can relate is hard.

And I hope you all make it to recon. I pray you all do. As AS say mostly all LBS usually get their chance to DECIDE to be back with their S.

My W has found peace on her end IMO. I have been struggling more. I'm always in fix it mode.

I'm always flooding or having remainders. I wasnt prepared for having her back. I was prepared for all the intense emotions.

Today I have decided to let go of expectations, live in the present and enjoy what the Lords has given me. I'm really being hard on myself.

What's also profound to me is when I was DBing I had a better wrap on my emotions and now I have lost control Of them some. I can concentrate better now, but I do get lost in reminders. I really hope I can start to move pass these thoughts ( I know I can).

I think putting this info here, helps to prepare people for what I wasn't prepared for.

My W is a wonderful woman. But that dont make what she did any easier to deal with.

Last weekend we made love twice in one day and almost went for a third time, but the kids came beckoning.

My 1 year old is crawling all over me at the moment, and I would hate to have to miss a second of this.

Healing takes time. Love is a choice and recon is no less easier than DB. DBers keep up the hard work, "do what works" as Sandi says. And dont forget to love yourselves.

Feed the good wolf
Onward and forward
Posted By: Jim1234

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 02/28/18 04:04 PM

thanks for the update. Your success story inspires in a different way that Joseph9's, and it's great to hear both of you are doing so well.
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 03/19/18 08:44 AM

Update:

Last week I went on a work trip. Most of the trip I did good. The last two days I start to spiral a little and I let some bad thoughts take control. I work through them best as possible. I returned home on Friday evening, W took the kids to Houston for spring break and returned home on Saturday. I informed her on Saturday I was having some of those thoughts and she brought up some good points. In her comments, she use the word, "betrayal", which caught me by surprise. Later on we were sitting by each other and I asked her to go to Youtube so we can learn how to do something and in her search, I see she has been watching videos on how to help to betrayed get past infidelity.

I asked her a few weeks ago to watch those videos, to start to help her understand what I was going thru. She wasn't going to inform me that she was watching them, but when I noticed her vocab changing, I start feeling better.

Yesterday, we made love 3 times. She told me "I love you", an endless amount of times. She informed me she wants to renew our vowels and get matching tatts. So the journey continues.

I provided this update because there isn't much in piecing.

Some advice, I want to give is, be patient with your W, be patient with your Kids, be patient with this process, be patient with yourself, and be patient with patience.

Take your time and let the healing and process work, I'm a very impatient person, but as I work thru this, I now understand that expectations need to be monitored and quilled. Love yourself so you can love others.

The process don't end when reconciling begins, a new process just begins.

Keep you'll heads up LBS's. I can't think the Sandi's and 25's, and AS enough for the advice and the J9, holding, Jim1234 and all the others for the support. What a GOD sent this place is.

I'm living proof that if you use the advice given here, you will be given the best chance at healing your M. And, i'm no different from any other LBS that has came here.
Posted By: Jim1234

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 03/19/18 10:35 AM

So happy to hear things are going well for you.
Posted By: neffer

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 03/19/18 09:35 PM

It all takes time JJ. I quit on OW two years ago, working on my marriage. Well...my mind longs for those unwanted memories...I know it is the adiction so Iīm fighting them back. Often reading forum advices to keep my own mind boundaries. It is a long journey and it takes time.
Glad for your present situation. Keep DB
Posted By: AnotherStander

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 03/20/18 05:29 AM

Joe,
Great update, thank you for continuing to keep us informed of your progress! A lot of new people here get discouraged that there aren't more success stories, but it's usually because people just quit posting when things turn around. It's always great to hear success stories though, and it's very helpful to see posts like yours where you talk about the struggles you are going through in recon. People need to know that recon doesn't mean the struggles and hard work are over! If anything the hardest work STARTS at recon.

Originally Posted By: joejoe1

Last week I went on a work trip. Most of the trip I did good. The last two days I start to spiral a little and I let some bad thoughts take control. I work through them best as possible.


Recovery isn't linear, so what you are going through is normal!

Quote:
I informed her on Saturday I was having some of those thoughts and she brought up some good points.


That's awesome, I bet you never had that level of communication with her before BD!

Quote:
Yesterday, we made love 3 times. She told me "I love you", an endless amount of times. She informed me she wants to renew our vowels and get matching tatts. So the journey continues.


Great news! Sounds like she's all-in!

Quote:
Some advice, I want to give is, be patient with your W, be patient with your Kids, be patient with this process, be patient with yourself, and be patient with patience.

Take your time and let the healing and process work, I'm a very impatient person, but as I work thru this, I now understand that expectations need to be monitored and quilled. Love yourself so you can love others.

The process don't end when reconciling begins, a new process just begins.


Excellent advice, well said.

Quote:
Keep you'll heads up LBS's. I can't think the Sandi's and 25's, and AS enough for the advice and the J9, holding, Jim1234 and all the others for the support. What a GOD sent this place is.


You are welcome! Glad to hear I played some small part in your recon along with the other great vets here, that really makes my day smile
Posted By: TBSakaJ9

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 03/20/18 06:48 AM

Great update JJ.....just remember the G&R song "Patience".

Little patience
Need a little patience
Just a little patience
Some more patience
Need some patience
Could use some patience
Gotta have some patience
All it takes is patience
Just a little patience
Is all you need
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 03/20/18 07:43 AM

Nef,

From your perspective, what was the hardest thing your W had to deal with. What are her main concerns, and does she still ask questions after two years?

What made you want to come back. I haven't read your thread, but if you could give me a brief summary that would be cool. Did you love your W more than the AP? Or was that not a factor in your return? How long did it take for you to stop contacting the AP after you decided to go back to your M? And how is your M going now?
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 03/20/18 07:48 AM

AS and J9,

Thanks for the comments. AS, you are exactly right, recovery is not linear, it's up and down, just like a roller coaster. The piecing thread is do dead, that I wanted to consolidate my journey, so people have a reference to go to. Also finding info and real life examples of piecing is hard, because many people don't openly discuss their infidelity, their shame. But it's affects a lot of M, so I would hope that more information starts to come out to help others in the future.
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 08/24/18 04:49 PM

Well, It's been a while since I have posted about my sitch. My wife and I are still moving along. I don't know what to say other than we have chose to love each other. We have disagreements like normal couples, but now we don't let them fester and we compromise a lot better now. She is a amazing mother and woman, she is working hard to try and be an amazing wife. I'm working or becoming an amazing husband, father and man. We have chosen to recommit ourselves to each other and it awesome.

To be honest it's not really any bad days, we do have up and downs in discussions. It's been over a year since BD and over a year since I discovered the A. The thoughts have subsided mostly, they come back every now and again. But for the most part, I have normal thoughts. I use to think about my M and W my whole drive home and to work. And I use to listen to videos about M and R all the time, now I listen to CNN.

I have picked up an extra job, my W and I has never had a honeymoon and we barely traveled and did things just the two of us. It still hasn't happen, but I have a trip lined up for next weekend. Our first one in years.

I see BLU posted, she is very inspirational. LBS please read her post when she post.

I'm still working on staying positive and not falling back in to those old habits.

I love my wife and my family, but one of the big differences now, is I understand, that the love I have for my wife, I chose to have. I love myself just as much now as well.

This forum will help you get thru those hard times, but only if the advice given is used.
Posted By: AnotherStander

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 08/24/18 06:02 PM

Hey Joe!! Glad to hear things are going well, very nice of you to pop back in with an update! Always good to hear from you smile
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 08/24/18 06:34 PM

Quote
I'm still working on staying positive and not falling back in to those old habits.


Hey Joe, what do you know? (SOrry just watched A.I. the other night and couldn't help myself!)

Quote
I'm still working on staying positive and not falling back in to those old habits.


BAM this is it right here. FOr those of us that have moved on to recon, staying diligent to solidify our changes is mandatory. Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Posted By: Davide

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 08/24/18 06:50 PM

Quote

BAM this is it right here. FOr those of us that have moved on to recon, staying diligent to solidify our changes is mandatory. Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.



I think this is true for all of us, recon or not.
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 08/24/18 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by Davide
Quote

BAM this is it right here. FOr those of us that have moved on to recon, staying diligent to solidify our changes is mandatory. Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.



I think this is true for all of us, recon or not.


I stand corrected! You are so right Davide, thanks for point that out.
Posted By: Jim1234

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 08/25/18 03:14 AM

Joe, that's awesome! Congrats, and thanks to you and Steve for showing the rest of us the way!
Posted By: neffer

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 08/25/18 12:21 PM

Iím really happy you are doing good jj. Really happy. I finally managed to write my sitch so many of the questions you asked me sometime ago are answered there.

Just keep the onward and forward going man! Iím glad you wrote your update. Good to hear from you!
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 09/04/18 05:18 AM

I have been wanting to make this post for a while now. Just been very busy.

I see a lot of DBers working for recon. Well let me tell you, recon isnt any easier than seperating. I have wanted to walk away quite a few times since my W and I recon. I'm not saying this to be braggy
I'm presenting a very honest and humble post here. Initial recon felt good, but after a few weeks I started questioning every aspect of my M, relationship with my W and my life. And as time went on I started to realize that I hadnt fully healed yet and I still haven't. Healing takes hard work no matter the direction life takes you after BD.

I need every DBer to understand that healing must take place before growth. You cannot grow without healing.

My W and I M is a totally different relationship and M. Not bragging, but we had sex 4 times last weekend. We flirt and kiss, hug and we are truly intimate with each other, the level we are at with intimacy far surpasses what we had pre BD. We watch each other wipe our butts, she tells me most of her thoughts and feeling and I tell her mine. We get into arguments, bit now we have the tools to work through ths issues. And we are still learning tools.

She has shown me she loves me, last week she drove half way across town to bring me my debit card and lunch and the very next day we got into an argument and I needed to get off the phone because I was upset, we were both driving going to different places, she came and found me and jump out the car to hug me. She goes out of way to show me she cares. She considers me and has made me a priority. I thank and love her for that.

With all that I still doubt her, why, because I still have healing to do. No matter the outcome, healing must always come before you come out the other side. There is no easy way, no shortcut, no recon that will change or push along the healing process.

My W and I are on two different healing journeys. I have asked her all the questions I can imagine up, I have probed and poked, and none of her answers satisfied me the way I wanted (and I feel her honesty and sincerity in her answers). My journey is learning How to let go of the past and move forward. My W cant help me with that, my healing is mine's to work thru and her's hers to work thru, I now know that. We have grown, but we have so much growth to go.

We have four boys to raise and I hope GOD see it fit to keep us working together in love for his sake and our family sake. There are no guarantees in life, just faith and hard work. Keep the faith and work hard DBers.

Keep your head up DBers. It's hard work all around for us.

Hope each and everyone of you all enjoyed y'alls labor day. I'm off to count some sheep.
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 10/01/18 05:01 AM

Well, I finally have a little time to provide an update.

The Wife and I are doing good. We still have our moments, we had one last night, I've been having a lot of triggers lately. So I sat down and discuss them with my wife, she got defensive and said she has told me these things over and over. She also told me, she doesn't think I'm ready to move forward with this M. I told her, the choices we made in our M had consequences I informed to her that she might not be ready as well. Because she was going to have to deal with me in the capacity of having questions until I'm properly healed (this was a selfish comment on my part). We left it at that last night.

We woke up this morning and talked it out. We love each other very much. But we both realize that there will be moments of insecurity because we are human. I think my wife realize that more than I do.

Our everyday lives are normal. I go to work and she stays home and takes care of our boys. What has changed is when I get home I help out with the boys more and she works to show me that I'm a priority to her.

Something, I want to do or try to do, is give my W point of view as I understand it. I think this can help future LBSs.

My wife is working hard to prove to me that she is all in on our M. She tells me all the time she is not walking away from me or leaving me. She felt as though I didn't care or love her. She calls the A, a shallow fling. I disagree, but who cares. She sees, her A, as more of she hated me and didn't want to be around me anymore, she couldn't stand to be around me and I disgusted her. All her respect for me was gone, and she saw me as less than a man, and she saw me as a man that couldn't protect her, not from a fighting standpoint, but from a have her back standpoint. Which means, when she's having a hard time with the kids, I step in and help out. She has groceries in the car, I help get them. She wanted me to be the man and not a selfish child. And that how she saw me most of our M, before BD.

This past week and weekend was rough. She came and held me and told me that people argue and disagree, and I shouldn't get so upset about certain things. She is right, I still have my wall up and I'm ready to be hurt. I still have anger, resentment, and doubt. She has moved pass all of it, and It leaves me wondering, what am I doing wrong. She forgives/forgets fast.

Let me also say, my wife and I, both came to an agreement that we didn't get married for all the right reasons. We jumped into the Marriage because she became pregnant, and she thought she would grow to love me, but we didn't fully know each other before we tied the knot. At BD she told me she was never in love with me. Now she is saying, she loves me, but she is not in love with me, but she feels herself growing closer to those feelings. She tells me she wants to be around me all the time now, and she is starting to enjoy our life.

Are we in the clear no. Are we working to making our M stronger yes? Are there guarantees in life no. The one thing I can say is life is filled with uncertainties. We can't predict the future, we put so many "just in cases" in our lives that we don't know what to do or how to feel when there's isn't one available. Those, "just in cases" are insurances, home, car, health, flood, renters, and all kind of other insurances. Warranties, for all kind of things. Retirements. But there is no certainties for life and the complex beings we are. We are given a finite time on this Earth and then we die. That's the only guarantee. Marriage, life, nor a spouse is guaranteed. So work to be happy, no matter who you are with or where you are in life.

I have driven myself mad trying to always have an answer, but sometimes the answer is there aren't any answers. I hear people say live life with no regrets, that's stupid, without regrets, there wouldn't be growth. I say live life pass regrets. Don't give up on yourself to allow others a chance at being a part of your life and you will be alright.

My Marriage was DBed, but the work hasn't gotten any easier, I have even been miserable on days. The whole time while I was DBing, I thought to myself I will be the happiest person in the world if I get my W back. Well, that hasn't always been the case. That was a feeling for those moments. I still have a lot of healing to do and self-reflection work.


LBSs, keep y'all heads up. Keep your chest held high and love yourself hard.

M:34 W:34
T:9 M:8
S14, S10, S7, S2
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
Posted By: Davide

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 10/01/18 12:38 PM

Joejoe,

Thanks so much for the update. It is truly invaluable for many of to hear how hard R is even when both parties want it to work. Your honesty and openness are greatly appreciated.

It seems like so much of the success of any R, a new one or the old one, is predicated on individual, personal growth. If we aren't in a good place for ourselves we can't be as loving a partner for any spouse. You are walking on the right path and illuminating the way for many others. Like you said, this work of personal growth is never-ending, but it is the only way.

Best of luck with everything. There are no guarantees but the honesty and ability to communicate effectively between you and your W bode well. Trust the process.
Posted By: ovrrnbw

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 10/01/18 02:53 PM

Joejoe,

thanks for the update. You've helped me quite a bit and I'm happy to hear of progress you've made. It [censored] to hear what I knew... The words sting when you read them, but I know that even if you do save the MR, there's so much pain to work through. None of this is easy.

I'm glad you're here.
Posted By: neffer

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 10/01/18 02:57 PM

It takes time JJ. There are ups and downs but, like you say, itīs onward and forward ultimately. Be patient.
Posted By: BluWave

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 10/04/18 12:17 AM

joejoe,

Thank you for updating. I am glad that you two remain on the path together. I can relate to so many points in your post. I don't update often, because I am not sure what to update. Yes, we sort of carry on, but it can feel quite boring and uneventful at times. Other times I self doubt because I continue to cycle back to the same negative thinking, which does not feel like progress.

You mention that you still have triggers. I think that is okay and to be expected. The trauma is significant. I believe they will continue to fade over time. My H has been back 3.5 years and the triggers have lessened significantly. I am also allowing myself to more see things that were not right in the M before this happened, as opposed to the sitch alone. The triggers can distract from the original M issues, because with the triggers, then our minds become focused on that one time period.

I really appreciate the changes you are both making.That is what this is all about. Slowly making positive changes and creating better habits. These are some of the sliver linings and how we can create a better M than we had before.

Quote
This past week and weekend was rough. She came and held me and told me that people argue and disagree, and I shouldn't get so upset about certain things. She is right, I still have my wall up and I'm ready to be hurt. I still have anger, resentment, and doubt. She has moved pass all of it, and It leaves me wondering, what am I doing wrong. She forgives/forgets fast.


I know exactly what you mean. Sigh. I feel the same way. My H DBs by nature and not even having learned it here. I have to work really hard at this stuff. Also, I think our wounds might be deeper than there's. We were not the ones that left the M.

I have miserable days too. Still. You are not alone. This is more than a process, it's a new life, and I don't know how long it will take to settle in entirely. I am not even sure where I am at today with it all.

I wish you guys the best. Thank you for the update :-) Keep coming back. I want all the newbies to see that this is no easy path.! Of course we only want them back when they are gone, I did too, but when they are back, it's a different, confusing, and possibly longer journey. There are no simple rules or recipe for this part.

Blu
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 06/29/19 04:47 PM

It's been on my heart to write this. I have read over this multiple times.

I'm a LBS or rather was a LBS. And when I got the BD I was doing all the wrong things. I ran around my city looking for answers. Asking every person I saw that I trusted what should I do.

I searched the internet exhaustively, looking for support and answers and I finally came across this life saving forum.

Were all my answers here, No. But a lot of the support I needed was, because of the life altering events that we were all living thru. I lived to read a post from Vets, helping me wade my way thru my sitch. Their responses brought me comfort and hope. I continued to read as much as I could about marriages in destruction and the same things came up just in different terms. Allow no disrespect, don't beg, plead, or show weakness, don't pursue, be patient and give space. These are the themes and pillars of a LBS. Out all of the pillars, respect carries love into eternity.

Can a person truly pay respect if they don't have any?

Respect cost, does a person with no respect for another truly love another. IMO, NO! Respect is not something that is just handed over freely, it's earned. It's action oriented. If a person is disrespected and the person who does the disrespecting is not confronted then respect is lost.

In order for a person to once again begin to love they must first begin to respect. In order for another person to respect another, that other person must respect themselves first. The longer the disrespect continues, the more the respect currency is lost.

But, in order to gain respect, it only takes one brave act, one act to show that disrespect won't be allowed. That act doesn't care what the reaction of the person doing the disrespecting is going to do. The only thing that matters is that the disrespecting stops. Once the disrespect is stopped, there are only two options, to respect or to distance ones self. But guess what, the distance option is a form of respect as well.

When faced with disrespect the right decision to be made, is first am I being used/disrespected. Why am I saying No or Yes. Am I saying "NO" to be mean or am I saying no because it's not conducive for me at the moment. Am I saying "Yes" because I think it will get my Spouse back or am I saying "Yes" because it's actually the right thing to do?

See, respect has nothing to do with being mean or nice. Has nothing to do with hurting another. It's all about a person, not crossing the clearly stated boundaries you have set. Repsect is one person acknowledging that they won't cross your LINE, because they understand you won't TOLERATE them if they do.

Most LBS allow line crossing/disrespect because we don't want our WW/WS to leave us, but the irony/rub is the more/longer they line cross the further away they go. If you want them to ever come back and STAY, STAY is the key word, Respect must be there. The more respect they have the less likely they are going to leave.

So the first steps in winning a Spouse back, is stopoing all the actions that show lack of respect and love for oneself (begging, crying, pursuing). Next start loving and respecting yourself. Next GAL, 180s, and detaching (not to escape, but too heal). Lastly allow no other to disrespect you and for all those that do, show them with action what doing so entails.

The purpose of DB or hope for a WW isnít ruining their life, itís leaving them alone and letting them see you grow and become stronger. It's Karma job to teach lessons, it's a LBS job to heal themselves.

M:35 W:35
T:9 M:8
S15, S11, S8, S3
BD:06/28/17
OM confirmed 07/20/17
Recon the M 10/29/17
Working hard:2gether

Onward and forward

This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
Posted By: BluWave

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 06/30/19 06:54 PM

(((joejoe)))

I was so happy to see that you posted. This is all good stuff right here! I hope the newbies will read it!!!

How are you doing? How is the piecing going?

Blu
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 07/02/19 04:33 AM

Blu,

What's up. On here just about everyday skimming. I just don't have the time to provide and adequate response too most.

I'm working two jobs and I have to wake up at 330 in the morning for physical training. (Military Life)

My oldest son is in town for the summer from Nawlins(New Orleans). It has been a very busy summer for us so far.

My wife and I are doing good. She has really worked hard to work on the things I told her caused me to recluse from her during our M before BD. I have worked hard to manage my feelings, emotions and actions. I ensure I keep her LL in my forefront. She isn't a physical touch person which is my LL, but she has made strides to getting better at them. She is a spender and before BD she wouldn't make too many sacrifices for the sake of our budget, now she seems to enjoy making a few sacrifices.

We have a trip planned to New York for labor day. My first time going to the big apple, she will be showing me around. She's a military brat and my father in law retired out of Ft. Drum so she knows her way around the NY.

We compliment each other a lot and work to help each other out. We still get in our little spats, but we communicate our way out of the problems, which is awesome. Anytime I feel disrespected, I inform her immediately.

Our MC, just upped and disappeared, she was good, but one day we had an appointment set and she didn't show up and we haven't heard from her since. I called, text, looked her up on the web to see if anything happened to her, nothing. It's really weird.

She's also, standing up for herself more now, which she wasn't before BD, and it caused her to break all the way down. Trying to make everybody happy. Now she is more honest with people especially her family. It's awesome to see. She refers to us as a team now, so if someone ask her for something or to do something, she tells them I have to talk to my husband first.

I'm still working on my issues and my W is being patient and understanding, she does get frustrated at times but we get pass my situations rather quick.

In life there are no guarantees (In my Nawlins accent). Oh my wife is using BD techniques and terms with her friends and family and she hasn't read the book. I talk about boundaries and respect and she has started to use the verbage. I just listen and validate (As AS would say).

I missed you BLU.
Posted By: Adam04

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 07/02/19 08:52 AM

Joejoe,

I appreciate your update. While I believe I am only scratching the surface towards recon with my W, I can relate to much of what you wrote about your feelings and about respect.
Posted By: AnotherStander

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 07/02/19 12:02 PM

Hey Joe, always good to hear from you! Your MC story reminds me of an MC my mom and dad were seeing when I was a kid. He pulled the same thing, up and disappeared one day. His secretary didn't even know what happened to him. Some time later there was a newspaper article about him, turned out he left his wife and kids and ran off with a nun, LOL! A marriage counselor! Wow! Physician heal thyself smile
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 11/22/19 09:40 PM

Update,

I haven't made an update in quite some time. My W and I are doing good. We are working together to create a better M. We discuss everything instead of let it simmer and stew. I still have my triggers (which probably will never go away but subside). She loves our boys and works hard to make them feel love. She has worked to make me feel the same. We live in reality now, and that's makes for a much better relationship.

Here's some advice:

I see a lot of LBS trying to work in a logical world with their WS. Wondering why they pick the OM/OW, well most likely they picked up, because that person is/was willing to live in the illogical world with them. So LBS go into that illogical world and try to win/get there WS/WAS spouse back, by trying to convince them, what they were/are doing is wrong. Well they know that. They are living off their feelings. They making decisions off what makes them feel good and not on what's good for them. Well, as a LBS you have to pull away from their feelings, take a step back, because the WAS/WW will try to convince you that their FEELINGS are what's important and the justification for what they are doing.

You have to be a stable person to deal with this and you can't let their feelings drive you. That's what keep most LBS stuck, making choices based off of another person's feeling. Feelings go way, love remains.

For most WAS/WS their loss must be greater than their fantasy. The word GREAT lost is different for each WAS/WS, for some it can be the loss of their spouse, for some, the loss of family, some their parents, some their pets, some their reputation. But here's the thing for LBS, you can't know what that loss will be, because the WAS/WS don't know, until that loss happens. As the LBS, you can't control that loss and neither can the WS. If anyone has been around a person that just lost a loved one, and that person just cries, you want them to stop, they probably want to stop but they can't, they can't control it, the one thing you can't do when consoling that person is to tell them to stop or when to grieve. Some people grieving period don't start until after the funeral. It's unknowable.

This concept is the same with a WS. The one thing about loss, it forces most people to reflect on themselves. And in that time, the feelings they have are quickly replaced with reality. And that creates grief. They have to be honest with themselves in loss. And when you get out of the way of that, they can reflect, as long as the LBS is in the way and constantly trying to fix and entice their WS back, they don't have time to reflect on the damage and pain they have caused.

That reflection, creates remorse, which is what is needed for a healthy rebuild of a relationship.

So to simplify:
WS-starts to operate off feelings
WS-makes decision off of feelings and causes damage
LBS-creates distance and allows space
WS-starts to feel some form of loss, maybe the distance of the LBS creates that
WS-Starts to reflect-reflection started because some form of GREAT loss
WS-becomes remorseful-which allows the WS to re-open their heart

Notice there is only one step for the LBS. Every other step is on the WS.

So, I have learn to give space, time and distance and have learned when to close the gap. Oh, I'm still learning.

I hope what I wrote isn't to convoluted. LOL

Onward and Forward
Posted By: BluWave

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 12/02/19 08:58 PM

Hello friend,

Wonderful update and advice! So glad you keep coming back!

Blu
Posted By: IronWill

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 12/03/19 02:58 AM

Every LBS should read that post ^^^^^

Well said!
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 01/21/20 10:39 AM

Update time,

It has been over two years since my wife and I reconned. We are doing good. We communicate and talk things out a lot better now. She calls me all the time and tells me everything, I have become more patient, before BD her calling me so much would annoy me. Now, I take my time and listen. I won't say we don't have our spats, but they don't just tear up our relationship.

I still have my tiggering moments, but they are really rare.

Sometimes, I do go down a revengeful thought process, but I have found ways to bring me back into reality.

My wife and I have some really happy and fun moments. We are working hard to raise 4 confident, responsible, and loving boys.

There's no timeframe on healing, after two years there's still a lot of work to do.

Onward and Forward

Joejoe
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 01/21/20 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by joejoe1
Update time,

It has been over two years since my wife and I reconned. We are doing good. We communicate and talk things out a lot better now. She calls me all the time and tells me everything, I have become more patient, before BD her calling me so much would annoy me. Now, I take my time and listen. I won't say we don't have our spats, but they don't just tear up our relationship.

I still have my tiggering moments, but they are really rare.

Sometimes, I do go down a revengeful thought process, but I have found ways to bring me back into reality.

My wife and I have some really happy and fun moments. We are working hard to raise 4 confident, responsible, and loving boys.

There's no timeframe on healing, after two years there's still a lot of work to do.

Onward and Forward

Joejoe


Joejoe, great to hear. I am in pretty much the same boat as you. Our timelines were very similar, with relatively quick turnarounds. Reading your previous update again it dawned on me that the one that we both did a fairly good job of was giving the time and space. I think think this is something LBSs struggle with, but if they could do it well would turn their sitches around quicker. Not in all cases, but the constant failing at DBing and going back to pressuring and pursuing is what really drags things out a lot of the time.

I'd have to go back and read your sitch, but my guess is that you discovered DBing fairly early. I think my turnaround was fairly short because I remembered DBing from my previous sitch 2 days after BD. The effects of starting to put into practice GAL, 180s, and detaching almost immediately is what resulted in my sitch turning around so fast.

By time many LBSs come here they've already made weeks, or months of mistakes. LBSs reading this, notice that the quicker you get to giving her time and space, GAL, 180ing and detaching the quicker you may see a turnaround. Again, there are no guarantees, but the chances greatly improve the better you DB.
Posted By: AnotherStander

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 01/21/20 02:22 PM

Congrats Joe, hopefully a lot of our newer people here will learn from your example!
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 01/21/20 03:46 PM

Steve,

That prompt a thought process.

My BD was the end of June/beginning of July. She started to be in regular contact with OM around that same time. Her first visit with him was the end of July. My discovery was the end of August. I signed up for this forum at the end of August as well.

When I first signed up I had help from the some great folks.

25-She really brought me back down to reality and gave a great perspective of my WW and what her point of view of our relationship was like. She was a military spouse and a active duty officer. She had a wealth of knowledge.

AS-Really harped on me detaching with love- I really dove into that concept and worked hard not to be mean and vindictive.

Sandi-Rode me hard on gaining respect for myself and not allowing my WW to disrespect.

TxHubby-He talked about, and really talked about reinventing yourself and validating yourself and how much of a great catch you as a LBS really is. He talked about how the Way spouses are not good people at the moment (this resonated with me a lot). They are doing a bad thing and they shouldn't be rewarded.

I also had a the community of every other person going through their situation to help provide support and help. The community aspect was awesome for me.

It took me about a week to really start to grasp the DB concept and detach. I pick up and implement things really well. I'm also in the military and I have moved around a lot, so detaching was as hard as I thought it would be.

But thinking back on my sitch, I wonder where I and marriage would be, if I didn't find this forum as fast as I did.

Joejoe
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 09/25/20 04:51 PM

It has been over 3 years since BD and almost 3 years since Recon. Time has went by fast.

My wife and I has way more respect for each other. We communicate inside that respect, which is great. We have disagreements, but now we listen and try to understand the otherside. I'm very stubborn and so is she, so sometimes it gets frustrating. But it's great to feel the respect. I have mostly lost the feeling of being afraid of her leaving or cheating. It lingers but dissipates fast. Her actions.........seems to show she is more in love with me that anytime in our Marriage. I only go off of actions now. .She has put in the work to make me feel secure in the M.

We are raising 4 boys so that's its on sector of the M. And we seem to understand that better. I'm so glad that I had 25 on here giving me advice beyond my M, but honing in on My faults with me and my fathering skills. My relationship with my boys have improved a lot and that has made my W really happy. My wife and I started to realize that's no such thing as a perfect mate/soul mate. It's all hard work, no matter who you are with.

I have to decide if I'm going to retire or PCS. My kids are finally settled and happy. They have been following me around for the last decade, so...................................we will see.

My wife has started her own business. Supporting her working through her dreams. That's about it.

We keep forging forward.
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 09/28/20 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by joejoe1
It has been over 3 years since BD and almost 3 years since Recon. Time has went by fast.

My wife and I has way more respect for each other. We communicate inside that respect, which is great. We have disagreements, but now we listen and try to understand the otherside. I'm very stubborn and so is she, so sometimes it gets frustrating. But it's great to feel the respect. I have mostly lost the feeling of being afraid of her leaving or cheating. It lingers but dissipates fast. Her actions.........seems to show she is more in love with me that anytime in our Marriage. I only go off of actions now. .She has put in the work to make me feel secure in the M.

We are raising 4 boys so that's its on sector of the M. And we seem to understand that better. I'm so glad that I had 25 on here giving me advice beyond my M, but honing in on My faults with me and my fathering skills. My relationship with my boys have improved a lot and that has made my W really happy. My wife and I started to realize that's no such thing as a perfect mate/soul mate. It's all hard work, no matter who you are with.

I have to decide if I'm going to retire or PCS. My kids are finally settled and happy. They have been following me around for the last decade, so...................................we will see.

My wife has started her own business. Supporting her working through her dreams. That's about it.

We keep forging forward.


jj, great update. It is funny how similar our sitches are. I will hit three years post-BD on 12/23. And Recon started in earnest in March of 2018. So I am 3 and 3 too. The dynamic between my W and I are very similar to yours. And my relationship with my D is so much better now than it was 3 years ago too. IN many ways, my R with my D was in worse place than my R with my W was! And it took longer to recover. It took longer for my D to trust and embrace my changes. But in the last year things with her are so much better. And similar to you the mutual love and respect between my W and I are better than at any other time in our MR.

Great to hear your update. Keep up the good work. Like R2C likes to say, you never stop DBing!
Posted By: BL42

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 09/28/20 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by joejoe1
So to simplify:
WS-starts to operate off feelings
WS-makes decision off of feelings and causes damage
LBS-creates distance and allows space
WS-starts to feel some form of loss, maybe the distance of the LBS creates that
WS-Starts to reflect-reflection started because some form of GREAT loss
WS-becomes remorseful-which allows the WS to re-open their heart

Notice there is only one step for the LBS. Every other step is on the WS.

So, I have learn to give space, time and distance and have learned when to close the gap. Oh, I'm still learning.

Great summary! Thanks for sharing!
Posted By: BL42

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 09/28/20 06:55 PM

joejoe1,

Originally Posted by joejoe1
It has been over 3 years since BD and almost 3 years since Recon. Time has went by fast.

My wife and I has way more respect for each other. We communicate inside that respect, which is great. We have disagreements, but now we listen and try to understand the otherside. I'm very stubborn and so is she, so sometimes it gets frustrating. But it's great to feel the respect. I have mostly lost the feeling of being afraid of her leaving or cheating. It lingers but dissipates fast. Her actions.........seems to show she is more in love with me that anytime in our Marriage. I only go off of actions now. .She has put in the work to make me feel secure in the M.

...

We keep forging forward.


I'm happy for you, and thanks for sharing. I wasn't familiar w/your situation but just read your latest thread. It's wonderful you take the time to come back here and update folks who were following your story as well as give insight into your story for the newer folks. For the newer members it's good to hear some positive results in terms of reconcilition of the marriage because even if theirs end in divorce it gives hope at the early stages which helps get them out of a funk/depression and focused on moving forward with what they can do. And for others who have been here awhile it gives good perspective into how difficult the R can be, and how to work through it.

AnotherStander said it best earlier in the thread:

Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Great update, thank you for continuing to keep us informed of your progress! A lot of new people here get discouraged that there aren't more success stories, but it's usually because people just quit posting when things turn around. It's always great to hear success stories though, and it's very helpful to see posts like yours where you talk about the struggles you are going through in recon. People need to know that recon doesn't mean the struggles and hard work are over! If anything the hardest work STARTS at recon.

Appreciate your time! Hope things continue to go well.
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 10/29/20 07:59 PM

Update,

Almost our three year recon anniversary. Halloween will be that day. Oddly!

My thoughts. Over the last month, I was having thoughts of being revengeful. I just had feelings of making her feel, the way I felt three years ago. I don't know why or where they were coming from, but I couldn't kick the feeling. I sat my wife down and we talked about it. It was a good talk and it helped. The feeling has started to subside some. I decided to put more effort into my W.

My W perspective: She listened and she gave her input, she says I can't leave her, and I already had my revenge, that's another story. I just looked at her, like really, get the hell out of here. She has really worked hard to make me feel comfortable with trusting her. (Oh, and I didn't say, I would never leave her, I won't ever say that again)

Our M: We are best friends. We talk about everything. We discuss every problem together. She's is truly the woman I wanted to marry.

My feelings/emotions: My feelings and our M are two different things and I know that I have to control my emotions. I have applied a lot that I have learned here and what I have learned from the many books I read and counselors I have seeked out.

I promise, that reconciliation doesn't get easier. It's hardwork. And everything I used to save my M, are the same things I need to work the keep my M and our relationship growing strong.

Do I think that My W and I will be together forever: I don't know, but I do know, that I won't tolerate certain things ever again and that's an awesome feeling. I do know, that I have the courage to fight for my M, with love while also detaching myself from my W actions and emotions. I do know that life is full of mountains and valleys and we can't predict when we are going to be in either one. Lastly, I also know that every person is entitled to their own choices and consequences. It's not up to a LBS spouse to take either the choice or the consequence away from the WS.

Stay strong LBS and keep moving forward.

Onward and Upward
Posted By: SteveLW

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 10/29/20 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by joejoe1
Update,

Almost our three year recon anniversary. Halloween will be that day. Oddly!

My thoughts. Over the last month, I was having thoughts of being revengeful. I just had feelings of making her feel, the way I felt three years ago. I don't know why or where they were coming from, but I couldn't kick the feeling. I sat my wife down and we talked about it. It was a good talk and it helped. The feeling has started to subside some. I decided to put more effort into my W.

My W perspective: She listened and she gave her input, she says I can't leave her, and I already had my revenge, that's another story. I just looked at her, like really, get the hell out of here. She has really worked hard to make me feel comfortable with trusting her. (Oh, and I didn't say, I would never leave her, I won't ever say that again)

Our M: We are best friends. We talk about everything. We discuss every problem together. She's is truly the woman I wanted to marry.

My feelings/emotions: My feelings and our M are two different things and I know that I have to control my emotions. I have applied a lot that I have learned here and what I have learned from the many books I read and counselors I have seeked out.

I promise, that reconciliation doesn't get easier. It's hardwork. And everything I used to save my M, are the same things I need to work the keep my M and our relationship growing strong.

Do I think that My W and I will be together forever: I don't know, but I do know, that I won't tolerate certain things ever again and that's an awesome feeling. I do know, that I have the courage to fight for my M, with love while also detaching myself from my W actions and emotions. I do know that life is full of mountains and valleys and we can't predict when we are going to be in either one. Lastly, I also know that every person is entitled to their own choices and consequences. It's not up to a LBS spouse to take either the choice or the consequence away from the WS.

Stay strong LBS and keep moving forward.

Onward and Upward



Awesome! Great update Joe!
Posted By: AnotherStander

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 10/29/20 08:20 PM

Good to hear from you Joe! I'm not sure "piecing" ever ends, you and Steve and others have described how challenging it is to keep the love alive even well after the "danger" period is past. It's a lot of work. But so is marriage, a lot of us ended up here in the first place because we thought autopilot was fine when we should have been active participants!
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 10/30/20 04:04 PM

AS,

I need to make this my mantra! Autopilot needs to stay disengaged. Active participation mode needs to stay activated.

Originally Posted by AnotherStander
It's a lot of work. But so is marriage, a lot of us ended up here in the first place because we thought autopilot was fine when we should have been active participants!


I was looking for the update to your SIT. I was keeping up with it, then I lost it. I need to catch up on it.
Posted By: OnlyBent

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 11/01/20 11:20 PM

Originally Posted by BL42
I'm happy for you, and thanks for sharing. I wasn't familiar w/your situation but just read your latest thread. It's wonderful you take the time to come back here and update folks who were following your story as well as give insight into your story for the newer folks. For the newer members it's good to hear some positive results in terms of reconcilition of the marriage because even if theirs end in divorce it gives hope at the early stages which helps get them out of a funk/depression and focused on moving forward with what they can do. And for others who have been here awhile it gives good perspective into how difficult the R can be, and how to work through it.


This ^^^^^^^^^. As a newbie, whilst I understand recon is very unlikely in my own sitch, the positive results shared by everyone (regardless of outcome), are a real motivator to do "what works"! Thanks joejoe
Posted By: AnotherStander

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 11/02/20 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by joejoe1
AS,

I need to make this my mantra! Autopilot needs to stay disengaged. Active participation mode needs to stay activated.

Originally Posted by AnotherStander
It's a lot of work. But so is marriage, a lot of us ended up here in the first place because we thought autopilot was fine when we should have been active participants!


I was looking for the update to your SIT. I was keeping up with it, then I lost it. I need to catch up on it.


I actually haven't posted much about my sitch in a while. Everything is really great, I'm loving life! Very content and happy despite the hot mess this year has been for all of us. My XW and I get along great. We get together for dinner now and then with one or more of the kids. Oldest D is working in Dallas and living in XW's upstairs area. Younger D is in physician's assistant school and doing really well. She's also engaged. S is a senior in high school, just started driving on his own and has a job now. Things are going poorly at my job, work is very slow. That's the one dark spot. Hopefully it'll turn around. I'm still dating the same young lady, it's been almost 6 years now (on and off). She lives almost 2 hours away now due to her work. Covid has really screwed up the stuff we normally love to do together- art shows, museums, haunted houses and such. So we've been working on ceramic sculpting (I bought a kiln about a year ago). Just started riding motorcycles again with a neighborhood group, I had forgotten how much I missed it! Thanks for asking smile
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 11/03/20 07:58 PM

AS,

You're awesome!!! I'm glad to hear you are doing so good. I'm glad to hear the kids getting along so well. I guess we need to watch ourselves on the road here in Texas. Another Teenage hitting the road (JK). That's awesome you and your XW are coming together for the kids, I know they probably enjoy and loving being apart of that.

Yeah, Covid has turned everything upside down. I don't know what or who to believe sometimes.

I hope your job picks up soon.

Lastly, glad that you and your GF have worked things out. What kind of bike do you have? I want to get a Fat bob or Street rod. Don't have that kind of money at the moment to spend on a awesome bike like that at the moment. But it's on my bucket list.
Posted By: AnotherStander

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 11/04/20 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by joejoe1
I guess we need to watch ourselves on the road here in Texas. Another Teenage hitting the road (JK).


Believe me, my kids on the road is one of the few things that really stresses me out in life! And it's not them I worry about, it's the handful of imbeciles out there that make driving tough enough for skilled and experienced drivers, but treacherous for new drivers.

Quote
That's awesome you and your XW are coming together for the kids, I know they probably enjoy and loving being apart of that.


I know not everyone is on board with being friends with their ex, but I really feel like it helped the kids accept things and move past them. And as time has gone on XW has become more and more like the woman I remember her to be back when we were married. I think she enjoys being independent and don't get the sense that she has any regrets about the D, and I'm cool with that now. She's happy and I think that's great.

Quote
What kind of bike do you have? I want to get a Fat bob or Street rod.


Both are great choices! I have had a lifetime love affair with motorcycling smile From a very early age (4 maybe?) I thought of little else. I was ten before I finally convinced my parents to let me buy a roached out Honda for 50 bucks. I spent hours staring lovingly at it in the garage, LOL! I've had more bikes over the years than I could possibly count. I have 4 right now, an 07 hopped up Street Glide that is my go-to for long distance riding, a Sportster that I bought new in 92 and have heavily modified, a 2000 Buell X-1 (American sport bike with Harley motor) that is also heavily modified, and a 73 Honda CB750 that is (you guessed it) heavily modified. The Honda I bought in the early 80's when I was in college. Have you ridden in the past and are wanting to get back into it or would this be something new for you?
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 11/04/20 07:51 PM

AS,

I think your personality and how you view the world shines through in the type of relationship you have with your wife now. You detaching with love advice, has allowed me on many occasions to walk away from situations where I would have blown up before, and that's with my W, kids, co-workers and friends. It's IMO one of the most important concepts for a LBS on this board, right along with Sandi's (not allowing disrespect and gaining respect concepts).

I had a crouch rocket (Suzuki SV1000S). I loved that bike, but I had to sell during some hard times. Also it wasn't a comfortable ride in San Antonio traffic. I need/want a cruiser. Something, i can just chill and glide on, on Fridays and the Weekends.
Posted By: AnotherStander

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 11/05/20 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by joejoe1
You detaching with love advice, has allowed me on many occasions to walk away from situations where I would have blown up before, and that's with my W, kids, co-workers and friends.


Thank you, that's very kind of you! Glad I helped in some small way smile

Quote
I had a crouch rocket (Suzuki SV1000S). I loved that bike, but I had to sell during some hard times. Also it wasn't a comfortable ride in San Antonio traffic. I need/want a cruiser. Something, i can just chill and glide on, on Fridays and the Weekends.


Oh man yeah, those SV's are quite the hot rods! Of the two you are thinking about, I think the Fat Bob sounds more like what you're looking for. The Street Rod is a fun bike for sure, it's smaller and more nimble. If you're going to be driving in traffic a lot it might be better. But if you want to get out on the open road and just relax and ride, the Fat Bob is hard to beat. My Sportster is a fun "bar hopper" but it's miserable to take on the freeway for very long. The Street Rod is better on the freeway than a Sportster (less vibration, less heat because it's water cooled, better behaved) but it's kind of in-between a Sportster and big twin. If you end up getting one we'll have to try and get together for a ride! I need to head that way to visit my brother (in Austin) anyway.
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 11/05/20 07:35 PM

AS,

Yeah, I will let you know if I get one. I was in Austin two weekends ago. Went on a boat ride on the southside of downtown, went to a zombie paint ball shoot and we went to eat Gus's Famous Fried chicken (it's so goooooood). Let me know when you are heading to Austin.

Yeah I was leaning towards to fatboy more, but it's a lot more than the Street Rod. It's a 40 minute drive to and from work. So I rather be comfortable at all cost. One of the reasons I could ride the SV because it would get so hot, and in the summer heat of San Antonio, I was basically sitting on a super fast Sauna.
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 11/13/20 11:33 PM

Hey Joe! Guess what I did today? Read back over your old threads. I wish every LBS would read your story, b/c you are very candid about your emotional struggles during the reconciling/piecing. It's like the LBS is consumed on just getting their WS back, and they don't process some the natural feelings that come when you been so utterly betrayed. Then when they are reconciling/piecing, the anger, resentment, vindictiveness shows up. We even see some LBS become WAS during this piecing stage, b/c they can't deal the delayed emotions. I encourage all couples to find a professional therapist who is experienced in healing after an affair. There are some MC that aren't worth the money you pay, but keep searching till you get the right one. This piecing stuff is hard, and any LBS who thinks things will fall back into place once the WS ends an affair, or comes back from a separation........is going to be shocked by their own delayed emotions.

With that said, I want to ask you a question, and I may stir up something, but let's think about it. Some authors, including MWD, says the LBS should ask any & all questions about the affair. I have seen some cases where the LBS asked for details about the sex, etc., and then could not free their minds of the scenes that were painted. So, I'm not sure how healthy it would be to get the dirty details.

Another question is........do you hold your recovering WW responsible for your emotional healing? When you have triggers and these old feelings rear their ugly heads, you talk to your W about it, right? She tries to reassure you, right? I'm glad to know the two of you are able to talk about the hard stuff.......(and I think it's terrific you are having sex. btw). I'm not suggesting you stop. I'm just asking a question from LBS's. If we are responsible for our own happiness, are we also responsible for our own healing? Do you hold your recovering WS accountable or responsible for your healing.......or the pace in which you heal?

Now, FWIW, I want to assure all LBS's that if their WS truly repents of their waywardness.......you know, is remorseful and humble (which remorse without humility is not worth a pinch of salt, IMHO), and agrees to do whatever is necessary to save the M, s/he will feel the pain of shame, regret, embarrassment, and other forms of fallout from the wayward actions. The WS not only has to atone for their cheating/betrayal, but will need to do a complete overhaul on their heart/mindset. The WS is held responsible for their wayward actions, and the destruction it causes. Usually, the WS is left feeling confused, hopeless, and/or depressed. The weight of responsibility is a bitter to swallow, and although the LBS may have played a part in the initial breakdown of the MR, the cheater cannot place blame the other person for the wayward conduct. The burden of proof (transparency) is on the WS, not the LBS. The WS also has to find forgiveness for the LBS, for their part of the breakdown in the MR. Whether or not the LBS thinks it right or wrong, the WS needs healing, also. It may not look the same as that of the LBS, but if the MR is to be well & happy, healing has to come for both spouses. The WS doesn't escape emotional pain. They have their own brand of triggers, that causes fresh guilt and sorrow to rise, and finding forgiveness for themselves seems impossible.

I'm not trying to gather sympathy for any WS. Not very many WS's come to the board, much less explain some of the things they had to go through as they travel the road to piecing their MR back together. The LBS suffers greatly, and it takes time and hard work to rebuild a solid MR. They have good reason for how they feel. I just wanted everyone to know that the WS doesn't escape scot-free.

BTW, Joe, continue the great job!! You two are going to make it!
Posted By: joejoe1

Re: Working through recon. Life is full of mountains - 11/16/20 06:13 PM

No problem Sandi, I will answer your questions.

Originally Posted by sandi2
With that said, I want to ask you a question, and I may stir up something, but let's think about it. Some authors, including MWD, says the LBS should ask any & all questions about the affair. I have seen some cases where the LBS asked for details about the sex, etc., and then could not free their minds of the scenes that were painted. So, I'm not sure how healthy it would be to get the dirty details.


I wanted to know all the details, I didn't want any crumbs coming back up and I didn't want no additional curiosity happening. But I will say, my curiosity was never satisfied. I always found more questions or asked the same questions in a different form. I had to force myself to try and stop looking for more. I also, saw and read things that haunt me to this day. But the triggers are far and between. I know some people that only need to know if their spouse committed the act and they are good. I wasn't that kind of person. If you are a LBS and you know you won't be able to get pass the visuals, I would recommend just getting the surface info. The thoughts can become so consuming it hinders your every waking thoughts.

Originally Posted by sandi2
Another question is........do you hold your recovering WW responsible for your emotional healing? When you have triggers and these old feelings rear their ugly heads, you talk to your W about it, right? She tries to reassure you, right? I'm glad to know the two of you are able to talk about the hard stuff.......(and I think it's terrific you are having sex. btw). I'm not suggesting you stop. I'm just asking a question from LBS's. If we are responsible for our own happiness, are we also responsible for our own healing? Do you hold your recovering WS accountable or responsible for your healing.......or the pace in which you heal?


It's not my W job to make me happy. We have learned that is not up to another person to make you happy. Putting that type of expectation on another person is too overwhelming and that expectation was part of our downfall. We have worked to make our own selves happy. That has helped to take some expectations off of one another. Doing that has also allowed us to open up more and with better transparency. We are also responsible for our own healing. Your Spouse, can't stop you from seeing vivid thoughts, they can't stop you from asking questions and becoming curious. At some point as a LBS DECIDING to RECON, you have to accept that you are willing to be all in or all out, and part of that is accepting your role and the downfall and working on those areas. If I decided to only worry about trying to FIX my W, we would still be where we were before the Summer of 2017.

Originally Posted by sandi2
Now, FWIW, I want to assure all LBS's that if their WS truly repents of their waywardness.......you know, is remorseful and humble (which remorse without humility is not worth a pinch of salt, IMHO), and agrees to do whatever is necessary to save the M, s/he will feel the pain of shame, regret, embarrassment, and other forms of fallout from the wayward actions. The WS not only has to atone for their cheating/betrayal, but will need to do a complete overhaul on their heart/mindset. The WS is held responsible for their wayward actions, and the destruction it causes. Usually, the WS is left feeling confused, hopeless, and/or depressed. The weight of responsibility is a bitter to swallow, and although the LBS may have played a part in the initial breakdown of the MR, the cheater cannot place blame the other person for the wayward conduct. The burden of proof (transparency) is on the WS, not the LBS. The WS also has to find forgiveness for the LBS, for their part of the breakdown in the MR. Whether or not the LBS thinks it right or wrong, the WS needs healing, also. It may not look the same as that of the LBS, but if the MR is to be well & happy, healing has to come for both spouses. The WS doesn't escape emotional pain. They have their own brand of triggers, that causes fresh guilt and sorrow to rise, and finding forgiveness for themselves seems impossible.


My W has sometimes found it hard to forgive my actions and how I treated her before her Affair, sometimes she get triggers by some of my actions and reactions to some of her request. She has worked hard on not seeing my as the man before the Summer of 2017 and see me as the man I am now. She has struggle with regret and knowing that shes an adulterous. But she has worked hard on forgiving herself and recognizing what has caused her to get to such a low point, where she would allow herself to stray. My wife has been super transparent and helpful with helping me heal. But she also knows, that my healing is my own journey.

I'll give an example of how my W has helped and she did not knowingly do so. So I have a friend who's dealing with a WW. He really wants the Marriage to work, I have been giving him advice. I told him everything about our situation and my W didn't get upset or embarrassed. I asked my W would she be willing to talk to him. (She has accepted that she can't go back and change the past, but she can work to prevent it in the future). But she sat on the phone with my Friend for almost two hours listening to him and letting him ask her questions about where she thought his WW, frame of mind might be at. I found that something that helped us getting even closer.

We have had some arguments, but we have developed healthy ways to work our way though them. I don't know the future, but i now have tools to help me navigate what ever may happens.

We have been to two MC, one was horrible, she kept telling us about her problems and her life. And the second was good, but she just up and ghosted us. We worked with her for about 4 or 5 months, she would come to our home and provide counseling, and one day, we had an appointment and she didn't show up, she didn't answer her phone, text or emails. And we haven't heard from her since. She was really good thou. We are looking for a new counselor now.

Sandi, I hope these answers help.
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