So some background. My wife met me while I was in the military. I think it was a big part of what she liked about me: strong confident, in control. Etc. I worked hard and finished school and got a great corporate job. That's when things started slipping away.
One day she came home from work and told me she wanted a divorce. That she doesn't feel the same way anymore. That she loves me but is not in love with me, etc. We had a short argument. Anyhow. I totally screwed up Sandi's rules because I didn't know about them at the time.
I got her flowers, cards, and reiterated that I believe in our marriage and our family. She has a son and I have a son, so blended family but none together. Anyhow, all that stuff backfired. Shortly after I found this forum.
For about a week I've been working on GAL and have started taking night classes, wearing better clothes and cologne. Dropped a noticeable amount of weight. Working out more. Never calling her first. Doing some simple chores I know always annoyed her, yet leaving enough chores for her to do so I'm not Suzy home maker.
She has made comments like "Why are you making all these changes now that it's too late?" To which I just ignore her. She's also complimenting me on how I look all the time. So I know she has noticed my changes.
However, she is still making baseless accusations and projecting her negative feelings towards me. She isn't making rational sense.
She is doing WW stuff like telling me about how she gets attention as the the gym from guys. She stays out late with her friends. Tells me she is flirting with guys. I ignore her traps but acknowledge her feelings. I've stayed calm the whole time.
She told me she doesn't feel safe so I told her that she needs to get her son and leave then, for her safety. I then left the house. She called and apologized for how she acted.
She has been to an attorney and she said she filed for divorce, but I know she did not yet. I am trying to buy time to GAL and win her respect back.
She won't move out of the house with her kid and makes excuses as to why, including that I've "trapped" her. That she feels like I'd damage the house with her gone, etc. Simple but strange behavior for her.
I think I can save this because it's so early. I'm asking you guys for help. I really do miss her.
I think if she really wanted to leave, she'd be gone by now. Clinging to the house is uncharacteristic of her. She's someone who is very independent and assertive. If she wanted to move out she could have arranged it in a day's notice.
Thanks for your help everyone. Does it sound like I have hope? Or should I cut losses and quit?
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Thanks for your help everyone. Does it sound like I have hope? Or should I cut losses and quit?
J,
There is always hope!
We need more info ages (guessing your W is in mid 40s), how long married, problems in marriage etc.
She is mid 30's. She has a full time job making good money. Boys are both teens in HS. Married 6 years. No serious problems in the past worth divorce. No infidelity. No financial problems. No unemployment. No devastating loss of loved ones. No scandals.
This is all new. She is lumping a lot of general annoyances together and saying it's what led to this. She tells me sorrowfully that this is what she wants and it's not anything I did. Based on some data I believe she has a crush on another guy, however she has not cheated. Yet.
She apologizes for wanting the divorce.
She still asks me things like how my day is going. She will try to make small talk. But she keeps wanting to get me to agree to her divorce terms. I have already told her I don't want a divorce and she will have to really think about how much she wants this. She wants to be "fair" but that just really means she wants money from selling all of our property to start over in her "new and improved" life.
Can anyone give me tips on how to converse with her regarding the divorce? I don't want to commit to anything, especially now. This is the main topic of discussion she brings up. She wants money from selling our things.
She wants to just walk away from us. She wants me to make it easy. She's trying to push me over.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
She keeps saying her mind is made up and she doesn't love me anymore. She is not acting normal. She dropped the bomb out of the blue. One week we were intimate and ML, the next week she asked for D. I mean, just out of the blue. Boom. Very strange and irrational behavior from such a logical person.
She is still doing some parental things, but she has removed all traces of me from her social media. She wants to act like a single girl.
I understand it may take time to reconcile this M. However, I know she will eventually press forward with the D papers. My time is short.
She accused me of boxing her in so she is defensive about everything I do or say. I'm always wrong, which I'm sure is typical.
We have been sleeping in separate rooms since I started LRT steps. Her focus is still trying to convince me to give her the easiest divorce ever.
I just don't want to do that. I hope this passes soon.
Joe,
That is so devastating. It sounds like you're doing the right things and I'm sure there's still hope. Maybe she wants to end it so she can be with another man but how is she confident it would work out with that man? That sounds like a big risk to throw everything away.
I'm new here as well and don't know what the DB book says about this specific issue (I lost and re-ordered it). What comes to my mind in terms of stalling for time, separate from the DB book, would be to ask her to try x, y, or z first and if those don't work then you'll agree to the divorce but will be working to ensure it's fair. Maybe you can offer the option of waiting six months, going to counseling, or living separately, or something along those lines.
I imagine you could just agree to get divorced and perhaps re-married in the future if she comes back in a year or two begging to try again, and you want to take her back on your terms, but divorces are so expensive.
I hope you'll get some other more useful responses. It sounds like what you're already doing is making a difference so that's good news!
I have suggested counseling, faith based counseling and everything. She says her mind is made up. Our kids have become very close and I'm sure it's breaking their hearts but she is steadfast and she is very assertive (one of my favorite things about her).
I'm so broken inside. Each day is a struggle. But I know our kids are worth it.
I think she has lost respect for me so I've corrected a good bit of my behavior to the point that she verbally recognized all of the things I've done to change. I know this is short term and I must stay consistent. That is not hard for me because I am patient and I love her dearly. I believe she's my soul mate.
She thinks it's over. Some guy out there has given her the attention she wants, regardless of how much attention I used to shower her with.
She is looking to greener pastures and thinking only of herself.
I really need help. I don't know how to communicate with her when she asks for D. I just tell her I need time to think. This whole situation is less than a month old.
I feel so lost. I'm about to lose my wife and best friend. I just picked up DR and will read it.
I have always honored her, supported her decisions, been helpful, kind, loving, and I've never been abusive. I'm a very good husband. But apparently not the man she wants to love anymore.
I'm desperate and feeling all alone.
Joe,
Best advice I can give you is to keep doing what your doing. There might be an OM that you don't know about or a potential OM that she is thinking about. Its good to have hope, but think of her as a loss. Nothing you say will convince her otherwise. Your W will have to find things out the hard way much like other WS talked about on this forum. If she ask for D, then tell her to present you with the documents. And if it looks fair, then give her what she wants. All resistance will just upset her more.
Well that sounds like I should give up on this idea of ever winning her back. Tough pill to swallow. Cut my losses and move on.
I had no solid, overt warnings that this was going to happen to us. I understand that GAL is good for me. It just [censored] because my life was my wife and family. I put everything into them. I didn't need to GAL, I had what I wanted. She didn't.
I'd like to avoid losing my home and family before my WW comes to her senses. But maybe that's an unrealistic hope.
Well, I guess I can just give her what she wants. It will be faster, I suppose.
[censored] to do this at Christmas.
I would avoid relationship talks and no pressure on her. Give her space. When she brings up divorce say you’re sorry she feels that way, that you would rather stay married, but you won’t impede her. End the conversation fast. Stay away and GAL. Buy time.
Well she came home last night after accusing me of trying to hack into her bank account. She was in a reasonable state to defend myself. The conversation went to her loving me but having no romantic feelings for me. She cried and told me that she did file for divorce and she told me details about the grounds she used. I said goodnight and went to bed.
Slept fine. Today I will carry on GAL and my job, which is taking off like crazy.
One question: I have been sleeping on the couch for weeks. She keeps asking me if I would like to sleep in the bed instead. Should I accept the offer to swap for a night or continue to sleep on the couch? I don’t care either way.
Move back in the MBR - permanetly.
Let her move out
Today I told her she won't get a fight from me if D is really what she wants. I also reiterated that I do not want a D and that it will never be too late to take it back.
I am moving back into the MBR today.
I am moving back into the MBR today.
Good for you!
Conceptually, I think of DB as moving on with your life and making the best life possible for yourself and your children. Your wife is left behind in the dust just watching a great guy move on without her.
As Tread has already mentioned, there's probably an OM. In fact, I'd say there's about a 98% chance there's an OM. Of course, that doesn't change your approach to the situation, but it can help motivate you to get out and GAL and build a wonderful life for yourself.
Joe,
Just out of curiosity, don't you need to sign the divorce papers too? I don't know much about the actual process I guess they eventually mail you something to sign too...it seems to be a multi-step process so I hope your wife will be thinking about what she's doing along the way.
Your situation is so sad. How can people do this to each other? Losing romantic feelings, in my mind, isn't a reason to get divorced. There needs to be some effort to restore them and other aspects of the marriage and even then the marriage can be re-defined without the full romantic feelings it used to have. I just can't understand how someone can just walk away without trying. Even if there's another man, how can she be so sure about him to lose her marriage?
I wish our society held people more accountable for their actions. I wish families, churches, social institutions, and other networks would intervene more so someone can't just walk away from their marriage without anything stopping them. Why is divorce so easy? Does marriage really mean so little nowadays that you just file a paper, pack your bags, and totally disregard the one you left behind?
Anyway I hope this nightmare will either end with your wife returning, begging for your forgiveness, or you finding a new happiness that's much greater than what you had with your wife. In the meantime, you're not alone. Maybe there's a divorced meetup group or a local church support group in your area? It seems like finding other people going through the same thing may help you to get through this.
Joe, sorry to read your situation. I agree with NicoleR. Also, there is the possibility she really didn't file for divorce yet. Remember "believe only 50% of what they say". Even if she did, you just keep working on yourself.
Well, I think I may have an idea of who is giving her all the attention she's been getting. Regardless, it does not matter. The divorce has not made it into the public website but I suspect it will be there by the end of the week.
I am still GAL every day. I see many of the deficiencies I have as a man that took a back burner to being a husband and a father. I am working on these things for myself so I can occupy my time as well as move on.
I deserve better than this and I'm really upset that she could do this to me. It's a complex situation for her, but I'm not going to support her anymore. I'm not going to be her babysitter anymore. I'm going to do my own thing and start my new life today.
She is on the verge of making me one of the most eligible bachelors in the area.
Still, I am holding onto hope that we can reconcile because I love my WW and the life we spent all this time building, and I know she is guilty about dumping the family. To me, it means that on some level she has enjoyed building this life too and knows what she's leaving behind.
But whatever. I didn't choose this.
Have you read up on Nice Guy Syndrome? There is a free online book called No More Mr. Nice Guy (referred to here as NMMNG). Check it out, in addition to DB/DR. Just reading up on your sitch, I think you will find it worthwhile.
One day she came home from work and told me she wanted a divorce. That she doesn't feel the same way anymore. That she loves me but is not in love with me, etc. We had a short argument. Anyhow. I totally screwed up Sandi's rules because I didn't know about them at the time.
That's OK, we all do early on!
For about a week I've been working on GAL and have started taking night classes, wearing better clothes and cologne. Dropped a noticeable amount of weight. Working out more. Never calling her first. Doing some simple chores I know always annoyed her, yet leaving enough chores for her to do so I'm not Suzy home maker.
That all sounds fine. How long ago did she drop the bomb on you? Please understand this is a marathon, not a sprint. It takes a LONG time for a WAS to turn around. It's very unusual for it to happen in less than a year but not unusual for it to take several years. So take a deep breath and settle in. Sounds like you're doing good 180's, but you have to do them CONSISTENTLY for a long period of time for her to believe them.
She has made comments like "Why are you making all these changes now that it's too late?" To which I just ignore her.
Just tell her "well I didn't realize the mistakes I was making, but now that I am aware of them I am working hard to fix them. I'm not doing it to get you back, I know that's not likely. I'm doing it because I want to be a better person." The thing is she thinks it's all tricks to get her back, and that if she goes back to you that you will go back to the same old stuff as before. So she doesn't trust your changes yet.
She told me she doesn't feel safe so I told her that she needs to get her son and leave then, for her safety. I then left the house. She called and apologized for how she acted.
Don't leave the bed, bedroom or house. SHE is the one that wants out, SHE has to go if that's what she chooses.
Does it sound like I have hope? Or should I cut losses and quit?
There's always reason to hope. Hope is a powerful force, use it.
But she keeps wanting to get me to agree to her divorce terms. I have already told her I don't want a divorce and she will have to really think about how much she wants this. She wants to be "fair" but that just really means she wants money from selling all of our property to start over in her "new and improved" life.
Can anyone give me tips on how to converse with her regarding the divorce? I don't want to commit to anything, especially now. This is the main topic of discussion she brings up. She wants money from selling our things.
Tell her that you don't want D but if that's what she wants then you will not stand in her way. But if she has filed, then DO hire an attorney and review the papers with him/ her. If she filed then you are supposed to be served papers by the court, I'm not sure the window for your state but usually it happens pretty quickly, like within a week. Don't make her any promises about division of assets, just tell her you need to review the papers and will discuss it with her afterwards. It's up to you whether to tell her you have an L or not, some people like their spouse to know while others don't want them to know.
Today I told her she won't get a fight from me if D is really what she wants.
Good! But...
I also reiterated that I do not want a D and that it will never be too late to take it back.
Don't say stuff like that. You don't want to be "Plan B".
I am moving back into the MBR today.[/quote]
Great! If she moves out then fine, but you stay there.
Great tips, thank you. The reason I told her she can take it back is because in the past she has had the thinking that things are pretty permanent once you start and there's no going back. I wanted her to know that simply because she filed it does not mean we have to just go through with it because step one has been completed. I will never say it again, because obviously we started a life together and she is now backing out.
I'll never say that again. Thank you for that insight.
I am 100% sure there is emotional infidelity on her part with an OM. I am about 70% sure it has not gotten physical yet.
My prayer is that it doesn't get physical and she comes to her senses soon. However, that is probably a pipe dream.
Oh, to answered your question, bomb dropped 3 weeks ago.
Great tips, thank you. The reason I told her she can take it back is because in the past she has had the thinking that things are pretty permanent once you start and there's no going back.
Yeah I get that. But she knows, she knows full well that all she has to do is lift a finger towards you and you'll welcome her back with open arms. Hopefully TXHubby's thread and Benito's (unfortunately Benito suspected his GF might be snooping so he deleted all his early stuff) gave you an idea of what you need to do... your W needs to learn to miss you. As long as she knows you're readily and easily available you'll be Plan B. TXHubby's W was actively having an affair and he tried to placate her in every way possible. He groveled and begged and pleaded and promised her the world. Did she find that attractive? No she probably found it laughable. He suffered day after day until one day he woke up and said "screw this, what am I doing!!?? Why am I making myself miserable over some lying, cheating W that doesn't even care about me?" From that moment on the tide shifted. He became the man he hadn't been for quite some time. He ceased to care about his W and became 100% focused on his own awesomeness. He got out and GAL'd and didn't tell her a thing about what he was doing. THEN is when his W realized what she was losing. Not some wimpy, sniveling, desperate excuse for an H, but a strong, attractive, independent man who had his choice of women. He went from Plan B straight to Unobtainable, and suddenly SHE was the desperate one. And that all transpired while they were living under the same roof. His case was kind of extreme as far as how much he detached, if you read Benito's he took a more loving approach but it was the same philosophy of leaving his W be while he worked on himself. And that's DB'ing in a nutshell.
My prayer is that it doesn't get physical and she comes to her senses soon. However, that is probably a pipe dream.
Sorry to say that based on the many situations we've seen come and go here over the years, it is very unlikely that she will just snap out of it quickly. It will probably take months or even a year or more. There IS a good chance you can save things, but it's a long, difficult road. I think Benito and his W started reconnecting in less than a year, 8 months or so? But that's about the fastest I've seen it happen.
As for Nice Guy Syndrome. I have a slight case when it comes to a few things, but those have been mostly corrected as of a few months ago. I made significant progress there.
I was actually doing pretty good with my personal life. Until now.
Actually today is one of the harder days I've had. It started out so promising and now I am in a dark place by afternoon. I'm really really really missing my WW right now. I have nobody else in this world who understands me, and now nobody who loves me the way she did.
I am broken. I'm losing will power to do anything.
Oh man.
Thank you for the reality check Stander. I needed that. I'm going to stop being available to her for anything anymore.
How do I find the TXHubby thread? Been searching and can't find it. Tha KS for all the support guys.
Actually today is one of the harder days I've had. It started out so promising and now I am in a dark place by afternoon. I'm really really really missing my WW right now. I have nobody else in this world who understands me, and now nobody who loves me the way she did.
I am broken. I'm losing will power to do anything.
Oh man.
I know it's dark right now, believe me I know it all too well. All of us here new and old alike have lived it. You WILL make it through this. You CAN do this. It is NOT easy, not at all. Sometimes you need to take it a day at a time, and sometimes an hour at a time, or even a few minutes. But you're going to find out you are stronger and more resilient then you ever imagined. Just remember there IS hope! The chances are good that you will have a chance at reconciliation, it may not be as fast as you want but maybe this is all a lesson in patience.
Thank you for the reality check Stander. I needed that. I'm going to stop being available to her for anything anymore.
Just make sure not to get cold and distant, keep reading Sandi's rules over and over again as a reminder of what your approach should be:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072
How do I find the TXHubby thread? Been searching and can't find it. Tha KS for all the support guys.
Sorry I thought you said you read his sitch, I must have gotten posts mixed up. Here's a link to all his posts:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=userposts&id=37644Here's his most recent thread that is kind of a summary of his sitch:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...478#Post2748478
Hi,
From experience I can say that if it wasnt for the advise of AS I would not have took the path I took.
You are going to have hundreds of thoughts and questions flying through your mind and your instinct will be to try and find the 'fix' to put things right.
Truth be told.. none of it will work. Your wife now does not see you the way that you see her i.e. companion etc.. She now wants out.
So you have to let her go and focus on you. Over a long period of time (mine was 8 months) if you truly understand what you have to do, and make the mental and lifestyle changes you need to make - then your chances of recon are much higher.
If she doesn't come back you are a stronger person to experience this life on your own for a while until you meet someone else who will understand you.
My God I appreciate you guys so much. I need so much support because I lost a lot of friends by moving so often, and then getting this new job. I really don’t have anyone to reach out to even to vent. And I don’t want to contact family. I am forever grateful to you all.
Benito, did you actually divorce before recon? My wife swears she filed, so I guess I will get served sometime during the month. That’s OK. I can buy as much time as possible that way. Besides, our home needs some work before it’s ready to go on the market.
Prior to the bomb, I was working on losing weight. I have lost 15 pounds and counting. I’ve adding running a few times a week and I started playing sports again a couple times a week. I am going to start going to the gym again. I have been improving the wardrobe, and I’m not going to be a “couch potato” anymore, even though I really wasn’t before.
I am going to start doing more father-son activities with my kid that (unfortunately) will have to exclude her child. I am no longer going to be her babysitter, no matter how much I love my stepson, he really isn’t my child. That’s a very hard pill to swallow but it’s true.
This is going to be a hell of a ride. Thanks for helping me through this.
Need an answer. I am considering spending weekends away from the house with my kid because she uses me as a convenient babysitter while she goes wild. We will return at the end of the weekend. Is this a bad idea?
Need an answer. I am considering spending weekends away from the house with my kid because she uses me as a convenient babysitter while she goes wild. We will return at the end of the weekend. Is this a bad idea?
This is a tough one. How old is stepson? What is your relationship with stepson? I believe the LBH should try to protect or mitigate any effects on the children as much as possible. Maybe go away for one weekend to send a message, but afterwards do whatever you would do "as if" the W was not there. If that involves staying at home, then so be it.
So I guess what I'm saying is don't go away just to punish your W, go away because it is something you want to do. If staying home is something you want to do, then do that. In other words, you are acting and doing thing regardless of the W.
He is 15. We have always had a good relationship. I'm just tired of being WW's babysitter while she goes out and parties. But I do get your point. It's a good perspective. I'll think more on this.
Why can't you include your stepson? If it's because she won't let you, I'd make sure he understood that you love him and will welcome him any time.
I completely understand how sometimes you feel great, and then an hour later, you're wallowing, and wondering "wtf?" It's normal and natural. Be aware the healing and detaching is not linear, and has ebbs and flows. You will have missteps along the road. We all do. Don't dwell on them; the occasional mistake won't ruin your chances of reconciliation.
don't go away just to punish your W, go away because it is something you want to do. If staying home is something you want to do, then do that. In other words, you are acting and doing thing regardless of the W.
this^^^^^^
Well, WW was told that I want MBR. Of course, then the crap hit the fan and she started yelling at me and now it's "clear to her" that she's making the right decision. We had an argument about the bed, but I did calmly tell her I'm not trying to screw her over financially and I'm not fighting her on the divorce.
I'm going to go away for the weekend and get some separation. I think it will be good for the whole family.
I don't know how long our interactions can continue like this. She is welcome to leave whenever, but she says I'm trapping her and I have her boxed in.
Today will not be a good day.
[quote=Joe2017]Of course, then the crap hit the fan and she started yelling at me and now it's "clear to her" that she's making the right decision./quote]
Joe,
Yep, that's the standard WW spew. My XW always began her spew with, "You see that's exactly why I'm divorcing you..." I began wearing that phrase like a badge of honor; I learned to relish those moments with glee (that's probably not DB).
One time, she asked, via email, to borrow some money from me. I kept her on the hook for a few email exchanges and then I finally told her, "I think you should ask your boyfriend for the money; he's already cost me too much." She hit the freaking roof, "You see that's exactly why I'm divorcing you..."
In other words, don't take it personally, it's just what they do to keep you engaged and to make you the villain. Just treat it like a two year old having a tantrum.
So I'm trying to be a good parent to both kids. But I don't want to be a doormat either. It's a tough one because I'm being used as a babysitter. I am not sure how to handle it. I get that I should carry on like she's not here, but it's hard when I'm being depended upon.
I know she needs to experience some kind of loss to start making her think about the consequences, and I feel like being her babysitter makes me complicit in her selfish behavior.
I am scared that our argument this morning is a major setback. I am just standing up for myself and not being Mr Nice Guy. The minute she didn't get everything she wanted she lashed out at me.
I'm trying to focus all of my efforts on recon, so this argument probably slowed that process. And that hurts.
Don't worry about standing up for your boundaries. She will lash out as you are showing control and not letting her walk all over you. Keep that up! You need to gain your respect back from her. Without that, she will never find you attractive in the future.
Also, DO NOT put your focus on RECON!!!! Let that go! You don't know what will happen. And this is a looooooooooooong road ahead. Don't short circuit your personal growth by focusing on recon. It's a fools errand.
Your FULL FOCUS is only on you and your kids! That's it.
Maika, I see your point in focusing on recon. I guess my goal is recon and everything else is my attempt to achieve that. I do see where you're going with this though. My goal should be to better myself, with or without her.
I feel like these days are dragging on, and no matter what I occupy myself with, the D is still hovering. No matter here you go, there you are, I suppose.
I'm so tired.
J2017.....your tired because you haven't let go. My W told me she wanted a D 6 months ago and still has not filed. If you don't let go emotionally it will eat you alive.
M is right....don't even think about recon. Think about yourself.
Easier said than done my friends. However I am close. Very very close to becoming ambivalent.
Oh it's hard as hell but the longer you hang on the longer it delays your chances of recon.
Oh yeh! Trust me, everyone here knows it's hard. But I can tell you when you do let go, the other side of the tunnel is brighter. you will feel a load off your shoulders and will be able to relax and think in a calm cool manner.
AnotherStander had posted on my thread a while back about the LBS and WAW/WW fog and how they are diametrically opposed. The LBS is in this fog where they think everything is their fault and they are dead set on doing everything for recon. Once that fog goes, the LBS can see much clearly that they weren't the only one at fault and can look at their MR objectively, and ask the question - what does she bring to the MR? Is that what I need and want?
You can't get there until you let go of the hopes for recon and start focusing on yourself. I am not saying abandon all hope, but just tuck it away in a lock box in a deep corner of your heart. We all have. Otherwise all of us would've just filed for D and moved on with life. But we're here trying to save ourselves and hope that the MR can be saved along the way. But if the MR doesn't get saved, you have risen out of the ashes like a phoenix and are stronger.
Think about what Joe2017 version 2.0 is going to look like. And work like hell to get there. Only a fool would want to leave that Joe. And the best part is, you can do it as many many many folks here have.
I am scared that our argument this morning is a major setback. I am just standing up for myself and not being Mr Nice Guy. The minute she didn't get everything she wanted she lashed out at me.
Easy big fella. You stood up to her and it felt fuching great didn't it? Now after thinking about it you're afraid there will be repercussions. That's normal.
The truth is there will not. She has already made up her mind to D you. The strong moves will get her thinking wait a minute who is this guy standing up to me?
The weak moves will be when she really says "see this is why I am divorcing him, if he can't stand up for himself how is he going to lead and protect the family"?
Good job Joe! Just know you need to fasten your seat belt because you are about to begin a long, long journey through h$ll. Only the strong survive!
Thanks guys. It did not feel good pissing her off but it did feel good standing my ground.
I want to take my son and spend the majority of weekends away from the house away from her and her boy. We will come back for the school week. Would there be any negative repercussions from this? This is to get space away from her, but still give the kids time together and a normal schedule (school, scouting, sports, friends, etc).
I am scared that our argument this morning is a major setback. I am just standing up for myself and not being Mr Nice Guy. The minute she didn't get everything she wanted she lashed out at me.
I'm trying to focus all of my efforts on recon, so this argument probably slowed that process. And that hurts.
It's not a setback. It's a move forward for both of you. You get to stand up for yourself, and she gets to see what life will be like without you. Lashing out at you is her attempt to keep you feeling guilty.
It's counterintuitive, but the harder you try, the worse your results are going to be. Let it go.
I am scared that our argument this morning is a major setback.
Your W not getting her way is not what causes major setbacks. Enabling her to continue disrespecting you is what causes setbacks.
Your body & mind is going to run out of fuel b/c you are living in fear. You fear she won't reconcile. You fear she'll D you. You fear she will have a PA.
It is good that you are seeing how jumping through rings of fire does not win the heart of your W. She is not the prize. Maybe you need to adjust that mindset just a little. Why not consider yourself as the prize? Have you forgotten how valuable you are and that a lot of women would love to have a man such as yourself? When you stop breaking your neck to convince your W to R........and focus on the man you want to be, then maybe she will see who is the real prize. In the current dynamic, she sees herself as the prize. She places herself higher than you. The more you try to appease a wayward/hard hearted W........the more she's convinced you are beneath her, and that kills attraction. She should be concerned she could lose
you, not the other way around. Until that dynamic changes, you will be grabbing at anything that comes along, trying to persuade her to stay in the M.
I believe it is more effective to use the "let her go" method, and let her believe she is the one being dumped instead of her giving you the boot. I don 't mean you have to go file for a D, but to have the attitude you have dumped her. I say this from the VP of a woman......and former WW. If men would do this as soon as he gets the bomb, it would turn things around dramatically.
Here is an old post from PatientMan:
Originally Posted By: Bing
I've basically spent the last month begging or testing out hollow tactics to "snap her out of it." In short I've dug myself into a deep hole.
Learn the lesson now - and do not forget - that being fake will get you nowhere you want to be. Not just in this situation, but in life.
A tremendously important part of this journey is the self-evaluative process you undertake - putting in the time and effort to figure out who the man you want to be is, keeping the good traits, getting rid of or changing the bad traits, and understanding that no one...NO ONE has the power to change that person you are becoming. No matter how someone else acts, no matter what someone else says, YOU are going to be the man you are intended to be.
So no easing. Evaluate the situation. Determine the plan. Execute the plan.
That is an informed and intelligent approach. And it does not rely on feelings, but on truths and actions. Your feelings will lie to you. They will try to get you to do things your head knows is better. Never never never blindly follow your feelings.
Always be honorable. Always do the right thing. Become the man only a fool would leave. Be a leader. Be bold. Stand firm in your convictions.
-PM
And another post from long time DB member, Starsky:
There are some things in life that fall (at least in my idealistic/altruistic mind) under the "Things That Ought Not to Be So" category. A lot of basic male-female human dynamics fall into that file it seems.
I have long said on this forum that people would be very wise to study the cr*p out of these basic relationship and interpersonal dynamics, and LEARN. So much time and energy seems to get wasted on some basic version of "But it shouldn't BE that way!" angst on the part of the betrayed spouse, instead of just snapping into action and actually USING these dynamics IN THEIR OWN FAVOR.
Bottom line, supplication isn't attractive and it doesn't work. Men AND women both tend to value most that which is difficult to obtain.
I copied and pasted these two quotes b/c they can get the message across in such fewer words than I can. I hope they will be encouraging for you.
Joe,
If you want to see if she filed for D, you should be able to look up the case online with your clerk of court. My W told me she went to the courthouse 2 weeks ago to file, I haven't gotten anything yet so I went online to confirm that she did file, and I found the case online.
Well, she did file. So that's that.
I guess we will get around to selling the house soon enough. I doubt she will ever change her mind about this.
Thanks for the help everyone. I'm pretty devastated right now.
OK. Now that I've accepted the filing I'm better kind of.
What happens next? Do we have a series of court dates? Attorney meetings? Etc?
How much time do I have until this is final?
I’m at 8 months and at least a month away. Yes get an appointment with an attorney.
If you haven't talked to a lawyer, that's next. He can tell you everything you need to know.
Basically, she (or her lawyer) will (eventually) file a motion for child custody, and you will get a letter telling you when you have to go to court. Eventually, she will file a motion for child support and alimony pen dente lite ("temporary alimony while divorce is proceeding"). Same thing, you'll get a letter.
Another way to go is to agree with her to hire a mediator. This is far more cost effective, if you are able to come to agreement. Lawyers are by nature adversarial, mediators will help you come to a mutual agreement. They will allow you to decide for yourselves, whereas if you wind up in court, the judge will eventually decide for you.
Thanks guys. Already talked to an attorney. More to think about.
Another quick question. How would you guys answer the question of "let's stay friends"?
J,
To be completely honest however you answer the question isn’t going to change anything. Typical WW statement.
J,
I would say "I'm your husband not your friend and that's how I will keep it in my heart. We can do-parenting if D happens and be cordial, but I can't be your friend, when in my heart I'm meant to be your H. Then let it be. DB, 180, and live your life. But you not about to friend zone me after, I'm your husband and all you've done to me.
Its too many other men in the world for that.
Thank you Sandi, I very much appreciate your input. I think what you said about me being the prize and not her, resonated with me last night. I am absorbing the fact that she has moved forward with the D and I have not. Now is the time for me to stop living in the past and look to the future.
JoeJoe, good point about not being in the friend zone with WW. I'm not her convenient one way emotional support. I'm not her buddy.
Does anyone understand why the WW still wants to make small talk in texts? If you want to get a D, why keep bothering the LBS? Attention? I'm not understanding and it's confusing to me.
Joe,
Don’t let it confuse you. It is to make sure you are still around to be plan B. Remember actions speak louder then words. What does her filing for D say to you. Don’t respond to any texts that are not kid or financial related.
Joe,
It’s confusing and you can’t understand it. My w filed for D and is having a PA and doesn’t understand why we can’t be friends With benefits! No, thank you. You can be friendly but you don’t have to be friends.
Does anyone understand why the WW still wants to make small talk in texts? If you want to get a D, why keep bothering the LBS? Attention? I'm not understanding and it's confusing to me.
There are ways about women that men will never understand........and the ways of a WW are even more complicated. There is no logic to it and you'll go nuts trying to figure her out. The best way for you is to accept it is probably opposite of whatever you think it is.
She doesn't want to be your W, but she wants some level of connection with you. Not in a romantic/sexual sense, but sort of like an ownership of you. I think 98% of the cases I have read, the WW wants to maintain some type of "friendship" with the H she dumped. However, there is a vital difference in
his definition of their friendship......and
hers. He thinks their friendship will gradually lead back to a romantic relationship. But she is a user.....a taker.....and she will use him and take advantage, and if he tries to step back or refuse, she claim, "But you said you wanted to be friends". So, it's a no win situation.
What you
can do is be civil. Perhaps there will be times you can even show a small level of
friendly behavior.......the way you would toward a neighbor that you don't really care to become best buds. Know what I mean? You speak, or wave.......and keep moving.
I wouldn't give her any in depth speech about why. Just say, "Thanks, but no thanks".
I mean.........friends? seriously??
Thanks Sandi. I know she is not the same person I married. It is very apparent. This situation is close to MLC status, if not exactly that.
I left for the weekend with my son and stayed at a friend's house. I'm going back to the marital home Sunday night. She TMed me in the middle of the night last saying I abandoned her. What the heck?
That kind of reaction gives me hope that there is still a connection that I can draw upon to save the M but thanks to Sandi I can see this is false hope. So, thanks again Sandi.
I'm planing my D now. I haven't been served the D papers yet but it's coming. I just have to move on.
Joe,
I cant remember who told me this. It was either AS or TXHubby.
The WW has three options.
Option A. Leave H and go be with OM
Option B. Leave OM and go back to H
Or
Option C. Try her hardest to keep both in her life.
Option A & B hurts her and another person. And makes her make a really hard decision. Option C hurts the least amount. She's gets the best of both worlds and she also gets time to find reason and time to come up with valid excuses for choosing whatever decision she tries to go with.
Well you can impact option A & B by taking those options away from her. Forcing to decide on Only option A. When she sees her options go from 3 to 1 reality hits like a ton of bricks.
She keeps texting you to see if you are still a option. Keep your responses one or two words unless answering a question about the kids. She has to feel you as an option pulling away. If you are giving her 80 percent and she's left to deal with OM who's only giving 20 percent then fantasy starts to fade.
When I saw this I had a ah ha moment.
Thanks for giving me hope and more understanding, JoeJoe. I'm in divorce strategy mode right now. I'm accepting the situation and just awaiting the papers.
I'm moving on. If she wants to stop me she can quit this foolishness and we can come to an agreement.
This situation is close to MLC status, if not exactly that.
Why are you so determine to believe she is having a MLC?
Sandi,
She has gotten a new job, changed her look, changed her attitude about our family, is focused only on herself, become a different person, she is out partying at night and leaving me with her son, she is acting like she's single again.
Maybe it's not a MLC but I thought maybe it was.
Sandi,
She has gotten a new job, changed her look, changed her attitude about our family, is focused only on herself, become a different person, she is out partying at night and leaving me with her son, she is acting like she's single again.
Maybe it's not a MLC but I thought maybe it was.
I wouldn't focus too much on whether is MLC or WW at this point (sounds WW too me by the way and very familar). Just DB your lil heart out.
Ok, understood. I'm not going to waste anymore time trying to understand this. I'll just focus on moving forward with the divorce and becoming a better me.
Joe,
I'm in agreement she sounds WW to me as well. A lot of folks want their S to be MLC because of the cheating aspect, but MLC can take way more time to come back than a Wayward. For your mental stability prepare for her to be a WW and if you think you can deal MLC hope for her to be that.
There some people on this forum that dealt with MLC for almost 10 years.
You Will be applying the same principals to both so, best to start now.
j,
IMO people like to use the MLC to justify the WWs actions. It’s not her fault she is having a MLC. The bottom line is she is making a choice. Accept where your at right now and keep moving forward.
My W was in MLC mode, it took at least three years, more depending how you count the time. During MLC she started hanging with a GF who was 15 years younger than her, drinking and going to bars. That behavior and others stopped as she came out of deep MLC.
Some MLC behavior changes are permanent. My W went back to grad school and has a new job. She never exercised before MLC, during MLC exercised 5 days/week, and now exercise is part of her weekly routine. So some changes are good.
Remember, if a MLC she is deeply unsatisfied with other aspects of her life beyond the MR. My W had always wanted to do more in the healthcare field, but never did anything to advance herself. Then at age 43 decided finally to go back to school.
During MLC my W was deeply depressed and in inner turmoil. Part of the yo-yo behavior she exhibited to me I believe was due to this turmoil. For example, she would be distant, nasty and cold to me. She would go out to a bar til 2am, and then be sweet and loving to me. I interpret her being loving to me after such events as her feeling what she did was wrong and trying to make up for it.
Regardless of MLC or not, I agree the techniques are the same.
she may be in MLC
read the chapter and see if it fits
I got home early this morning to find all of the wedding photos gone. Mind games I guess, but actions speak louder than words.
My days are getting so dark. My life seems like an endless cycle of abuse no matter how hard I've been GAL, it doesn't make me feel any better about myself. I can run 3 miles and still feel numb. Foods are barely discernable from each other. My mind is like cotton.
I think I am giving up on this. I will keep journaling here. It's the only place I can talk about these things.
I can't keep loving this woman who doesn't even care about me in the slightest way. My heart is being bled dry.
Joe, I’ve been in that exact spot. Mine put me thru a month and a half of sheer hell before I got my balls back and moved back home. I started out in the wrong place and made a boatload of mistakes. Even when I came here, I would ask advice , even poll people, get good sound advice from Sandi, 25, and several other respected vets, took it in, and did the polar opposite. My Wpalyed me mentally and emotionally for a month with promises of R after a break,told me she was wanting to work on us and everything else under the sun she could think of to make me “behave” because this OM is in the militate and she was s!?t scared I was going to turn him in and wreck his 30 year career before he could fly her down for a week to playhouse. Eventually I settled down and only just recently have taken the advice I was given and applied it. I am now at a point where I don’t worry much wether or not she’s still talking to him or if they’ve broken up, or if we have a chance. I also catch myself questioning if I really want someone, even repentive, who treated me with so much malice and basically evil. Let time do it’s thing. Do like I didn’t and listen to what’s being offered here, it’s tried and true. Even if it doesn’t work out youll be better for the experience if it makes sense. Don’t let the darkness swallow you, because at the point you’re at right now it has a big appetite and it will eat you alive if you let it. Relax, take a deep breath, let it out, and roll on. You got this brother, everybody here is like a large extended family that cares and is here for you.
God I love you people. You're the best. Seriously.
Today WW wanted to "talk." So I told her that yes I'm taking the MBR back. That we need to figure out who gets what property. How to divide debt and we need to schedule all the things necessary to get the house sold. I told her I didn't want a divorce but I'm not going to fight her on it.
Later WW stopped me in the house to talk again. She just sat there saying nothing, so I told her that I love her and because I do love her I am giving her everything that she wants as long as it's fair. She left upset, but I'm sure she'll get over it when she gets to whomever's house she's headed to.
I'm not going to waste any more time on trying to get R. I'm done. Bring on the D because I'm ready to move on with my life and I'm tired of feeling like this.
It's been less than a month so let's see if we can set a record for fastest divorce ever.
Joe, I think you'll find detaching has two effects. One, it will help you feel better about yourself and two, it might make your W reflect on what's going on. Number two doesn't really matter, but you'll find that you're outlook and mood will improve tremendously.
At the moment do you have enough INTEL to know if your WW is walking or wayward?
It matters in the approach you make to her.
If she is walking treating her as a wayward, coolness and indifference will make her run faster. It's more of the same. If on the other hand she is wayward, your stance is spot on.
Do not leave the MBR or MH. I made that mistake and it cost me a great deal. That applies whatever. If she wishes to join you in the MBR and you want that that's fine.
You have described what she is doing, her actions, your reactions and I have no clue as to why your PWW wants D!
Do you know?
V
PWW potential WW
What is the difference between a walking and a wayward?
All of my recent behavior is kind of counter to anything she has expected. She has been surprised with every change I've made and all of my reactions for the past two weeks. I've been catching her off guard.
She has described an emotional attachment to another man and she told me point blank that she hasn't cheated but she could see herself with other men. She tells me she is tired of marriage and she stopped doing anything at the house. She has mentally checked out of our relationship. She tells me she loves me but is not in love with me. That she loves my kid still. Etc.
I thought that was wayward?
After more research it seems that I have a combination of walk away and wayward here. She is both. So I am going to just keep moving forward with GAL and keep a positive attitude around her, no matter how my heart feels.
After telling her that she is going to get her divorce, she has been much kinder to me. Softer tones. She sat down next to me today after coming back from whatever. We chatted small talk.
I told her my boy and I going to be volunteering at a local charity we both love. She asked why now after all this time that she has asked to do this. I told her that she was right, but I'm not doing it for her I'm doing it for myself.
I'm still GAL and I do not feel like R is my goal. I am getting served this week so, that's that. If R happens it's because my WW has a change of heart (not likely I know) or her Plan A becomes infeasible. Her mind is made up, obviously.
BTW, the conversation was civil and less than 10 minutes. She is now in another room, because I told her last week the MBR is mine.
When I told her I was taking the MBR last week she lost it on me. Today, she conceded it with no argument at all.
Good for you! And I'm sure the charity is happy to have the help.
WW wanted to talk. I felt like she was being open and her guard was down. I was VERY cautious to making her defensive. She said she couldn't talk about a PA but I know about the EA because she already told me. (I found lingerie etc that allow me to believe that a PA has happened but she doesn't know that I know.)
We had a very frank and open discussion about how I'm moving on even though we both are moving forward with D. I made it clear I'm not holding out for her but I understand all the things she is going through. I reassured her that I know how hard things are for her. How I accept the divorce and I forgive her for anything. I reaffirmed my stance on the D, but that I will not stop it if it is what she really wants.
This is a hard time in her life and I wanted to make her know I'm not her enemy, that I can be supportive and I can also move on with my life and I'm fully prepared to do it, and that I'm even doing it right now and making personal improvements for MY OWN benefit NOT hers. The conversation ended with her giving me a hug.
It was actually a genuine moment. I did it so I could heal personally and help ease tensions in my house.
I hope it helps make the D smoother.
I reaffirmed my stance on the D, but that I will not stop it if it is what she really wants.
This is a hard time in her life and I wanted to make her know I'm not her enemy, that I can be supportive and I can also move on with my life and I'm fully prepared to do it, and that I'm even doing it right now and making personal improvements for MY OWN benefit NOT hers. The conversation ended with her giving me a hug.
Joe,
So you find out she is having a PA and your worried about conveying to her that you will be supportive and then end it with a hug? WTF. That's very weak behavior Joe!Now she knows she has you wrapped around her little finger and you will be around as plan B if OM doesn't work out. Come on man.
Got it. Got it. Got it.
Damn it damn it.
Doing my best. Moving my money. Making it clear I'm moving forward without her.
I'm not looking for her validation,but I am.
This is so fresh, I'm trying my best to apply these techniques.
Something I have to keep in mind is that if she views me as a threat she will lash out and go into overdrive. Her personality is defensive to the extreme, even under normal circumstances. I've made this effort to make the threat not ME but everything else that goes with this process.
I'm still GAL. I've taken the MBR. I'm taking my money. I'm doing things to move forward with the D. I'm doing my best.
I just have to make the real threat to her safety the rest of her life.
This is so fresh, I'm trying my best to apply these techniques.
Joe this is where people get confused. There are no techniques, tricks, magic that is going to turn this around quickly. You can't make it better right now but you can make it worse.
Accept that for now that your marriage is over and start to detach, GAL and decide the kind of man Joe wants to become in the future.
It's a marathon not a sprint Joe!
I get that is is a marathon. I get it. I don't feel like I have much time. D has been filed. It makes me panic a little bit.
I get that is is a marathon. I get it. I don't feel like I have much time. D has been filed.
Joe,
D takes along time. Mine is 9 months and counting. Stop and take a deep breath. Right now you really can't do anything to make it better you can only make it worse.
I told her that she was right, but I'm not doing it for her I'm doing it for myself.
You picked up that ^^^^^^ statement from the board. It was for your ears only, not hers. Do not repeat things you get from the board, unless you are specifically told to say it.
You asked earlier about MLC and waywardness. Below is the answer I gave to another poster who was asking about the differences:
You may have read how MLC is the result of a person transitioning from the younger side of life, into middle age.....and for various reasons they strongly resist it to the point of creating a mess of their life and the lives of their spouse and kids. From what I have gleaned from the years I've been here, is how certain things can happen that seem to trigger the MLC. So, I think it can be more complicated than just transitioning into middle age. The person in MLC may be angry at everyone around them, or angry at life for cheating them in some way. I won't get off into all of it, b/c it is too much. Another thing that is discouraging about MLC, is can last for several years.
The wayward wife can be any age, and she's not in transition. Where MLC may appear to show up overnight, I think waywardness happens covertly, so appears to be at a slower rate.....until she hits overt rebellion. She has a lot of anger, too, but her anger is directed toward her H. She blames him for everything bad, and nothing good happen for her....and he's why she is not happy. Her waywardness is born out of her heart when she allows resentment toward her H to take root. She doesn't forgive and she doesn't forget. She holds on to that resentment and she usually feeds it. She feels disrespect in her heart for her H. She begins to show her resentment and disrespect in subtle ways, at first, and as it builds momentum.....she dares to feel rebellion toward her M and her H. The rebellion is usually seen in her growing inappropriate behavior. Waywardness is a defiant, bitter, selfish, and hardened heart......directed toward her spouse. The disrespect she feels for her spouse affects her loving feelings. In most cases that I've read, the WW creates a fantasy in her head that propels her EA/PA/IA.
There is more than we could hope to cover in a few posts, about the WW and MLCW. Knowing your W's past, her parents, life changing experiences, and former long-term R's.......might enlighten you, if you suspect MLC. Your marital history, the dynamics of the MR, and her temperament/attitude toward you.....might help you decide if she fits the description of a WW. Sometimes, it takes learning more information on the subject, and a lot of personal and honest Q & A about your W and your MR, in order to know the basis or source of the problems.As for the subject of a WW vs a WAW........it has nothing to do about whether or not she physically walks away from the M and home. Actually, MWD does not separate WW from the WAW in her DB/DR books. Although I was not the first to use the term, I began using "wayward" as a way to identify a specific type that, IMHO, was much more common on the board, than the WAW. For years, I saw a distinct difference in the wayward wife from the DB/DR textbook walk-away wife. And also, the board was seeing women leave their H's b/c of his abuse (or other factors, such as no income, inappropriate activities, imprisonment, drugs, etc.). They had to leave as a way to survive, or b/c they chose not to participate in his sort of lifestyle. These wives did not leave b/c they had a hidden agenda. There were no OM, secret A, or desire for Girls Gone Wild activities. There were no big changes in their behavior. And, their decision to leave was not based on selfish motives.
If you look up the definition of "wayward", it gives a clear description of a wayward wife. Go ahead.........look it up.
. I'm sure you must agree that the heart of a wayward wife and that of a WAW are quite different. But that is just MHO.
Thank you Sandi, thank you.
D day is coming. I have confirmation of EA with pending PA. She admitted it. I can't legally make her leave the marital home, but I can leave for the weekends sometimes and force her to her parent her son. She needs reminders of what I provide in our family, but I really just need the time away from her. Plus, I had a blast with my boy over the past weekend without her around. I want more good times for him during this rough season.
I think today I have started to really embrace the need for me to get this D done and out of the way.
I don't care if I speed it up or whatever. This is going to take months so we are stuck with each other due to logistics anyhow. I'm not moving out, but if she does then great.
I hereby vow to treat her like a neighbor passing on the street from now on. I will be friendly but not friends, I will be kind but not caring, I will be understanding but not supportive. I am going to GAL like I'm single and parent my boy like Dad of the Year.
It's taking me time to go through the grieving process but I'm getting there. Thanks for being my sounding board everyone.
Joe,
That's great to hear to with so much confidence. You son absolutely needs to see his father strong and confident.
I think kind and caring go hand and hand. So you can still be caring but not run behind her Every time she needs help. I will give you an example. Since I have been on here some WWs have had to go to the hospital. If your W needs to go to the hospital, pls take her. On the other hand if she needs help with things she can do on her own let her.
IMO not being supportive will come off like you being a jerk. You can be supportive and not pursue and give off you being up her butt. For example,she says she's going to the gym and has been toning up. You can say looks like you been putting in some hard work at the gym. Or she wants to go back to school, you can say, you will do good when you go back to school.
It's detaching lovingly.
Got it. Thanks JoeJoe. I'm on the right track then, I think.
One day at a time.
WW had an EA but when it got to PA level she couldn't follow through with it. This happened while I was away for the weekend with my kid. I'm sure this would have happened even if I were home for the weekend right? I'm sure the next step is PA so I'm treating it mentally as a PA. It [censored] but it is what it is.
She found out I moved money and now she is pissed. But it's a divorce, what do you expect? She wasn't expecting that I guess, even though she did it first.
It's taking everything I have not to text her an "I love you!" or a "How's your day?" text. I miss her so so much. I'm having a hard time. I've kept radio silence for two weeks now, but today is killing me.
Oh man.
It really hurts being replaced in your wife's life. I'm not having a good day.
I think today I have started to really embrace the need for me to get this D done and out of the way.
Joe -
You talk a LOT about divorce and when it's getting done. And from the looks of it, it seems like you are helping speed it along by pushing to split assets and such.
I ask you to take a step back a little bit.
Have you read DR? If so, have you actually gone through and set goals? How does pushing towards this divorce mesh with the things you are trying to accomplish overall?
Joe, that sounds like a rough, rough day. My first marriage ended from an EA (possible PA) and that was a devastating thing to live through. It eventually gets better. Make sure you have some support face-to-face as well as on the forums when it gets bad.
I get that is is a marathon. I get it. I don't feel like I have much time. D has been filed.
Joe,
D takes along time. Mine is 9 months and counting. Stop and take a deep breath. Right now you really can't do anything to make it better you can only make it worse.
Also, there are no rules that say you cant remarry after you are divorced.
One thing that helped me put my divorce into perspective was understanding that the actual act of divorce was only a piece of paper. All it does is report the status of my relationship to the government.
On BD, my ex ended the relationship. I didnt 'run out of time' when the paperwork was finally signed several months later.
You have nothing but time. Ultimately, you get to decide when the relationship is over for you.
WW wanted to talk.
We had a very frank and open discussion about how I'm moving on even though we both are moving forward with D. I made it clear I'm not holding out for her but I understand all the things she is going through. I reassured her that I know how hard things are for her. How I accept the divorce and I forgive her for anything. I reaffirmed my stance on the D, but that I will not stop it if it is what she really wants.
Its odd to me that W wanted to talk and then you reported on only things that you said. In my opinion, if you are going to talk, she should be doing 70-80% of the talking while you listen.
So the things she said in that discussion was that she wants a divorce. She wants some assets. She said things are hard for her. She said her mind was made up. She said she wasn't happy. She said she was sorry for doing this to me.
That is what she said. Sorry I left that out.
OK Joe
If you wish at any stage to build a new R with WW then the road home has to be smooooth and open.
Like the lighthouse.
Cordiality like an acquaintance. Let go of the revenge attitude as that will just escalate stuff. Think neutral and self centred not selfish.
I get the glee when it dawns you moved the money. And that would be my choice, although more in sorrow than anger. That is best I think.
Validation is also good as pleasantly as you can. Concerned about things you should be as the mother of your children.
Anything that affects your children is important too. The biggest change is financial as now she is on her own. She needs cash to buy children's shoes is different from a massage and spa day!
V
Sorry?
It's script.
Not happy?
It's script.
Things are hard for her
It's script
Rewriting history to justify to herself her selfish actions, she actually knows the truth. It's her own selfishness that does this. She will deny it of course but she knows.
Breathe and hold firm. You are doing great.
V
Thanks V. That made me tear up. I'm having a really rough day.
I want to fight her because I'm at that stage, even though I know it's a bad idea. I moved my money to protect me and because she needs to be jarred into reality.
I can feel myself moving to acceptance of the PA and the D.
More evidence of the A has come to light. I have not been served yet. I am patiently awaiting the process server. I have a lot of time to think while I workout these days. I did figure out who the OM is. It was exactly who I thought it was, and he's nuts. It will not end well for her.
Because I'm not going to be there to catch her when she falls this time. I'm in the right and I did nothing wrong despite her petty issues with my personality.
The funny thing is, she was always the jealous one.
Joe,
Let her fall flat on her damn face. If OM is nuts, that's even better. Karma will come for her sooner than later. Nothing like a crazy man to make you realize that things weren't so bad afterall. Hopefully your W isn't as stupid and stubborn as mine. And just decides to float to another OM after first ones clearly use ad discard her.
Hey everyone. Trying to wrap my head around the latest chain of events. I got the confirmation that I needed to flip that mental switch. You know, the switch that gets flipped and makes you WANT the D.
I decided that I needed to locate my important documents and sentimental items. WW was out of the house at a party. I found a lot of my items in a set of drawers in "her" side of MBR. Went to bed.
When she got home she noticed that I had been in the drawers. She started talking about me violating her trust and her personal space. She said that I'm trapping her and playing mind games. I explained to her that I was getting my sentimental items, which I did. Her perspective is that I violated her personal space.
Now I know there is an admitted EA and they are going on dates. She denies a full blown PA. I'd rate that at likely true, maybe a 65% chance of being true. She said now I'm pushing her into going through with it all the way. Whatever.
She lost her temper and asked me if it would make me move out faster if she brought her man into our house for PA-related activities, if you know what I mean. I said that she can do that anywhere and I don't care what she does. I ended the argument by leaving.
Now, that was a pretty low blow but it didn't affect me. I'm at that point.
She did call me today. She apologized for the vile statement she made, but went into more accusations regarding D details and accusing me of wanting to fight her for the house. I told her that she was accusing me of things that are untrue, said goodbye, and hung up.
So. Yeah, I violated some of Sandi's rules. I engaged in a discussions that devolved into arguments, but I cut them off as soon as I realized it was confrontational. I apologized for the perceived slight and tried to validate her feelings, but I did not ask for forgiveness or anything like that.
What did I mess up the most? Because I know I made a lot of mistakes here.
Please be brutally honest. Thanks.