good afternoon, y'all... i am a former WW who has been in the piecing process with my very patient husband since March 2015... i have been following "newcomers" threads consistently since March 2015--right before i approached my husband about reconciling...
we have two sons--who are now 17 and 21...
we had been separated since the summer of 2012, and legally separated since the summer of 2013... i even moved away--on the opposite coast of the US for 18 months... during that time, we had minimal contact... our sons stayed with him during that time... i would come back to my home coast every 8-10 weeks for 10-15 days... our sons spent two summers with me while i was away... i returned in the later part of 2014...
i was staying with family, sort of retreating... and i went to work part-time while i was there... before that--during my marriage--i had been a stay-home, homeschooling mom since 2000... i was very busy... i lead homeschool groups, started a classical homeschooling group, was the editor of newsletters, volunteered at the Pregnancy Resource Center, spoke at women's groups and retreats... presented at homeschool conventions, developed a grammar-aged literature curriculum, taught parents how to teach writing, literature and grammar to their own children... i taught Latin, history and poetry in a homeschool co-op for six years... my husband and i taught junior high Bible study, and we led small groups in our home... on top of that, i was a deacon at our church--the first female in leadership... my husband was an elder...
my husband worked away from home two-three days a week... he would leave on Monday or Tuesday morning, and return Thursday night... i would make sure he had all of his clothing, socks, underwear, etc... i would prepare meals for him... two per day--lunch and dinner... pack it all for him... i was also very involved with my own family--parents (who are in their 90s now) and siblings... nieces, nephews, etc... we are a large, tight-knit family... but my husband and my sons were my priority... we had a good marriage... and yet, i derailed...
i thought i should introduce myself... i have followed many of you since your own introductions... i have seen many post here profusely, and then fizzle out... i have wondered what ever became of "overwhelmed," and the poor gal who ran into her husband's truck... right now i am closely following Chris 19, CW2017, hoosjim and holding... i see myself in the wives of CW2017 and hoosjim... and i was following T0... i often find myself beseeching someone, anyone--to steer them in the best direction... and someone always does, though, oftentimes, it is difficult for them to take the advice...
well, i do know so much of my story is missing... i could write a series of books... but this is a start... please feel free to ask me anything...
artista
Welcome to the board,
sounds like you have already read my normal welcome post.
Glad you decided to post and hope you can find support here.
artista; what a wonderful decision to re-enter the forum and to tell your story. I am glad and proud of you for sticking it out and figuring out your own story first, to be able to piece with your H.
As you know, since you mentioned my name, I was just hit hard with a 2x4 from Sandi. This forum as not only allowed me to see my sitch in a different light (stepping back from it); but also taught me to understand my downfalls in order to work on them. I also am now able to see the side of the WW from Sandi's great thread. I hope to learn more insight from you as well; if you choose to share more of your story.
Artists,
If you could fill us in with more of your story that would be awesome.
I’d love to hear more. You sound like my ww too. She was a saint of a SAHM, very involved in the church...and then left the church, is now in an active affair with OM2, and we are about to divorce...but she also likes playing family with me and the kids when she wants that...how did you get derailed and how did you find your way back?
Hi Artista! Welcome to our forum. I am always impressed at the former wayward spouse who is willing to step onto the stage and answer questions and provide insight. I don't get much of a chance to post anymore but do manage to dip in daily and read. Thank you for starting a thread and giving us a chance to hear your story.
Hi Artista! Yes, it would be great if you would share your story from the WW perspective. I am sure you will get tons of questions, and I hope you can tell us what happened. We don't get a lot of WW/WH come and share from their side of the street - except Sandi who has been a consistent godsend for so many of us.
In other words, Welcome and look forward to following your threads and putting some questions to you.
Hi Artista!
The WW perspective is something we definitely need more of (there's only so much Sandi to go around). I'm glad you're here.
What made you want to recon with your H? Please tell us more about that.
I'm flattered (I guess that's the right word) that you've been following my sitch. I'd love for you to stop by my thread and share your opinion.
...i often find myself beseeching someone, anyone...
Does your husband know you're beseeching other guys?
haha! i wondered what your comment/s would be...
Hello Artista, I was really fascinated to read your comment that you've been lurking here that long, thank you for finally introducing yourself! Do you think these forums influenced your decision to try and make things work?
We rarely get the perspective of a WAS but when we do it's extremely valuable (Sandi has obviously been a huge help here) so it would be great to hear more about what made you decide to leave, and what eventually led you back. Also it would be fantastic to hear your perspective on what your H did after you left that didn't work and did work.
Gordie... i too did a lot of what your wife has done... did what i could to "play family." while i was doing it, it seemed like the best of both worlds... but as i started reading these threads, i saw it from another point of view... that it was me trying to live two lives... and i could see that there was a phoniness in it... i would go back to the marital home and cook meals for my husband and sons, so they could have access to food while i was away living my own life... i would do laundry for my sons when i moved back from the opposite coast because i felt guilty for the time i was away... we would even have "family dinner" on Sundays...
Artists,
This is awesome and interesting. Pls more!
How did you caught off OM? How long did it take for you to get over him?
Was it diffcult to get over OM.
How is your H dealing and doing now that you are back home?
Was it a rough road when you first came back home?
How did you assure your H through the process?
i realize that i do have a lot more background to share... i will give it in pieces... as i have time... for now let me say that my derailing began as an online EA with someone from my past... and it took a couple of years to come about... we found each other on classmates.com... did a quick check-in... it had been about ten years since we had last spoken... up until that time, we had maintained a sort of friendship... just getting in touch every so often... going to lunch... meeting for a drink... no big deal... definitely platonic, even though we had dated in the past, and had known each other forever... we were both married at that point... it was when i became a mother that we had lost touch... plus i had moved away from my hometown about that time too, so we just lost touch...
after classmates, a couple of years later we reconnected via facebook... while we kept in touch via social media, there was nothing other than casual friendship for the longest time... and then one day he suggested we meet up for a tequila shot--which is something we used to do together... and it was something my husband and i enjoyed doing together from time-to-time... the second i read his suggestion, i knew it was wrong... it scared me... i literally walked away from my desktop... there was fear, but there was also an excitement that surprised me... but instead of addressing the invitation straight on, instead of right-out declining, i made light of it... and it was set aside... for the time being...
over the next 8-10 months, we kind of began an EA... the thing is, i wasn't even into it... i could take or leave his messages to me... sometimes i would respond, sometimes i wouldn't... he was pretty consistent in messaging me, but i wasn't...
and then, one afternoon, while i was having Margaritas with my niece (another niece who is my age) and our family friend at Chili's--OM walks in... coincidence...
Chris--i have been impressed with your willingness to "get with it," so early in your situation... while you have not yet "bought in" with your whole heart, you seem to be doing the work anyway, and i see that it's working for you... before i go any further, let me go to your thread and share my thoughts there...
So what happened? And was OM considered a step up from your H or a step down? My W in my own sitch continues to cheat down with every new person that enters the picture.
So what happened? And was OM considered a step up from your H or a step down? My W in my own sitch continues to cheat down with every new person that enters the picture.
Seems like the WW always "trades down". Maybe it is just a universal truism that all men that would mess with another man's life are pond scum. I can't think of single, objective, redeeming quality that OM had over me in my case... other than that he had inside intel via me (we were friends) on my W's vulnerability, and that he lavished her with praise and attention (after several years of neglect by yours truly. I often say that if I could name a "Right Place at the Right Time Poster Child", the OM in my sitch would be it. OM, At 54, is five years older than my wife, but looks 25 or more years older (my W can and does routinely pass for mid 30s, and OM is a heavy drinker and that lifestyle has taken its toll-- big bear belly, all grey hair, mostly bald), is not well off financially as a towtruck driver (and not even full time) and is about as lowbrow unintelligent as they come. And not to mention that he is a backstabbing wife-stealer.
Youll see lots of similar stories on these boards...
...big bear belly, all grey hair, mostly bald), is not well off financially as a towtruck driver (and not even full time) and is about as lowbrow unintelligent as they come. And not to mention that he is a backstabbing wife-stealer.
Yeah, my XW's OM is the total POS package. And, he's married and creepy as h3ll. It's beyond comprehension.
i did not "trade" down... OM is, as far as the world is concerned, an above average decent man... he is hardworking, in shape, an involved father... comes from a nice family... has his own nice family... has a professional career... does not do drugs, does not drink too much... he is a lot like my husband... an all-around good guy... i had 2 additional EAs--one, about a year after i began the A with OM, and the other very short-lived, during the A... and the EA OMs (OM2-3) were also all-around nice guys... my EA with OM3 mainly took place during the beginnings of my separation, and went on while i was on the opposite coast... until i met someone there, where i was living...
i am telling you, i could write a series... it has been some years since all of this happened, and i am now, after much time and counseling, at a place where i can own what i did without all the heavy guilt that comes along with it... i had a lot of guilt for a long time... guilt about the betrayal to a man who did not deserve it... betrayal to my sons who did not deserve a mother who moved away for 18 mos... tears still come to my eyes when i think about these things... but there does come a time when the one who caused the destruction has to get passed that... when he/she has to put down the burden (have you ever read The Pilgrim's Progess by John Bunyan?) if he/she is to really live again... if he/she is ever going to be available to the people in his/her life...
i did not "trade" down... OM is, as far as the world is concerned, an above average decent man..
Did he know you were married?
If he did I don't follow how he is a decent man.
Cadet--indeed... that is why i worded it the way i did... "as far as the world is concerned," he is an above average decent man... he is not what doodler or hoosjim describe as the OM: no job, out of shape, substance abuser, broken family, etc... he doesn't have the exterior of a "loser," a "trade-down." as far as the world can tell, (and the world did not know he was a cheater) he is a decent guy...
Well my point is that affair down is normal but of course I agree that even the CEO of General Electric could have an affair and has been known to do that.
Gordie... i too did a lot of what your wife has done... did what i could to "play family." while i was doing it, it seemed like the best of both worlds... but as i started reading these threads, i saw it from another point of view... that it was me trying to live two lives... and i could see that there was a phoniness in it... i would go back to the marital home and cook meals for my husband and sons, so they could have access to food while i was away living my own life... i would do laundry for my sons when i moved back from the opposite coast because i felt guilty for the time i was away... we would even have "family dinner" on Sundays...
Wow, yes. Stbx doesn’t see D as end of the family. She wants me and family and OM2. No matter what I say and do, don’t think she will “get it” until after the D is final and we aren’t living together anymore though she now says she is questinging herself.
Artista
I am a WAW, I essentially walked (no ran) at the end, there was nothing wayward in me at all. I have never been tempted and actually have never felt as you describe.
I think to me this demonstrates the difference as a WAW I decided there was no way I was going back to an abusive R. I was out at the spell break point. Until that point if the Giggalo had got his act together I would have worked and stood with all my ability to turn it around.
I admire those who struggle with the waywardness and get a grip on it. Those with low impulse control who get it together, those with 'issues' who sort it.
Only reality biting seems to resolve it or getting real.
Don't get me wrong I am no saint, I am a workaholic who can be very neglectful of their R. And for a brief while a screaming banshee. A truly horrible reactive abusive person not that makes a difference to the abuse of the Giggalo. He liked abusing and future faking. And screaming banshee gave him great satisfaction.
Changing down isn't about resources or addictions but about spirit, values and beliefs. What type of person will cheat with a cheater? What values do they have?
For me, no thank you. Cheating is a big deal breaker. I can't rationalise or minimise it. I will not have it in my R or my life. Knickers don't accidentally fall off and oops how did that sexual encounter occur? And oral isn't sex right? Cheating is in the mind or body or both. Morally dubious behaviour. So who hasn't been tempted? Hmmmmmm, Liam where are you?
And adultery is sleeping with someone other than your spouse before you are D. Learn that definition Giggalo! Deciding you might want to be D isn't the same as being D.
Happy family is a personna, a fake one and an illusion designed for cake eating on a grand scale.
So what makes a WAW not a Cheater but a WW wayward? It's not thoughts but actions. Even in an EA there is longing and physical reaction.
There is NO excuse for cheating in either body or in preparation of the mind for cheating. An EA is the preparation of the mind for cheating intending on a physical fact.
Cheating is rotten behaviour or preparation for rotten behaviour and I have no truck with it at all. But then I haven't really ever been tempted and I guess I never will.
It is OK to escape a rotten M, not stay in an abusive M (and I include being cheated on) and also to stand, DB and work in any way to get a mistracked R back on track. It is not OK to cheat, lie and misrepresent yourself.
For this reason I think DBers need INTEL to determine if they are dealing with a wayward or a walkaway. What has to be done, the focus is different.
At the end of it, it is working on numero uno that gets you to either release or rebuild. A wayward can always find someone to be wayward with but what type is that? If the wayward lies to the POP then when uncovered the POP will dump the wayward.
So it's excellent you gave yourself the spell break shift. Gives you an unique insight into the wayward which is valuable. But a wayward isn't a walkaway.
It is my view that walkaway marriages are more likely to heal than wayward ones.
V
Vanilla... thank you for your time and attention... i concur... a WW (wayward) is not a WAW (Walk Away)... i am of the WW ilk... as Hank Williams Sr. crooned, "a cheatin' heart..." a coward... unless my life were in danger, i don't think i would ever have the guts to be a WAW...
Artista
Changing down isn't about resources or addictions but about spirit, values and beliefs. What type of person will cheat with a cheater? What values do they have?
yes--i get that... but the question that was posed to me was not done in this spirit... the previous comments were all about the OM being a "loser," as far as the eye can see... the descriptions were physical and included addictions and resources--"tow truck driver," which to me does not indicate anything, really... one of the most wonderful families i know is headed by the husband/father, who is a tow truck driver... he is a loyal, hardworking, man of faith...
but i knew what was being asked of me in the trade-down question... and i answered it honestly... by worldly standards, no i did not trade down... and neither did he...
Yes exactly
I think this should be a case of divided in the same language
A wayward may be a 'loser' or maybe not. A wayward certainly loses in the end. If not just by losing part of their integrity.
What you are saying is brave, waywards get litter sympathy on this board. Dynamics in each M are different.
So let's have this scenario, there are few waywards on this board more deliberately entitled wayward than the Giggalo. And of course his wayward behaviour was my fault. The Giggalo trades up in his long term partner but down with his cheating partners. He uses up the resources especially money of the long term then moves (or is booted) on. He may even marry but it's not for love.
I could have chosen to cheat or commit adultery. In doing so could have traded up in terms of partner with resources. And actually I doubt many would have blamed me. In fact after S and before D, I still considered it adultery. Maybe not wayward or unfaithful but certainly adultery. I didn't cheat, I walked. I ceased to stand.
Any one I could have cheated with is likely to be a trade up from the G. Almost anyone. But it is still a trade down, a loss, from the partner I want and need. So a loser? Oh yes definitely, not maybe in terms of job, material wealth etc but in terms of values? Certainly.
If you read my story then you will know about aged pa, an ordinary man who was truly extraordinary.
So I think we agree on the fact that wealth or lack of it may not mean a loser. But it may.
artista,
Here's how the OM stuff needs to go down...
OM1: total dirt-bag
OM2: stoner, fork lift driver, lives with mommy
OM3: alcoholic cross-dresser and special friend of Jim Baker
All three are so small that a PA wasn't possible.
Now we can all rest easy.
yes--i get that... but the question that was posed to me was not done in this spirit... the previous comments were all about the OM being a "loser," as far as the eye can see... the descriptions were physical and included addictions and resources--"tow truck driver," which to me does not indicate anything, really... one of the most wonderful families i know is headed by the husband/father, who is a tow truck driver... he is a loyal, hardworking, man of faith...
Yeah, that was pretty short-sighted of me, especially coming from me-- a child of a family born of humble roots. My Grandfather actually got his start as a truck driver, and my W's family was VERY blue-collar... her dad worked in a steel mill into his 70s. I meant no affront to the profession itself (though obviously I gave one) and, especially due to my and my wife's roots absolutely do understand the value and honor in a hard day's work... just that this particular one is what you consider, well, the archetypal (albeit perhaps unfair, yes) one, and is absolutely NOT a hard worker and spends a lot of his time just knocking around in bars drinking beer.
Sorry if I gave any offense, though...
Sorry if I gave any offense, though...
i was not offended... i knew what you meant... context is everything! i only mentioned it in response to Vanilla...
So artista, can you share with us a bit more about your story?
1. What made you come back to your H?
2. How long did you A last and what did your H do in that time?
3. What was your piecing process like?
Thanks so much.
Very interesting. I feel as if my ex traded down. I am a nurse, she is a lawyer. By profession, one might say he traded up (although she doesn't make much money?) She is also not physically attractive at all, doesn't cook, doesn't clean, is a hoarder, enjoys very little activites, is scared of balloons and water, and I hear is very lazy. But what does she have that I don't? The ability to put up with his nastiness and having everything his way. I stopped putting up with that.
So, it can be seen many ways, that affairing up or down thing. Basically, someone else is giving them something they feel you can't, whatever it may be.
artista,
Here's how the OM stuff needs to go down...
OM1: total dirt-bag
OM2: stoner, fork lift driver, lives with mommy
OM3: alcoholic cross-dresser and special friend of Jim Baker
All three are so small that a PA wasn't possible.
Now we can all rest easy.
yes--that's exactly what i meant to say...
is scared of balloons and water,
LOL reading this made my day!
Though I must add, I am afraid of clowns lol!
I first found out about the balloons when we did our first combined party for our D. I told them to bring home the balloons since D was going home with them. Ex pulled me aside and said "ummmm, we can't. OWW is afraid of balloons" I just burst out laughing. Then I walked past her with all the balloons and she totally ducked as if they were going to attack her.
Then D tells me everything else. Aparrently she likes to talk like a baby too. D10 says "it's weird". And she can't let the water hit her face in the shower.
I know I went off topic, sorry, but sometimes we can all use a little comic relief.
Artista,
Wow reading your story makes me think of my exw... we are in a lesbian relationship we adopted 3 beautiful kids.. our first son was 3 months and then 3yrs later 2 more which was not plan I took guardianship from my sister which we later adopted. Now we have S9,D9 and S8
Well April 2017 BD and OW by June W just walk out and took some clothes left everything behind and didn't hear from her for a month. Around July she ask to see kids we meet at drop off and then I'll pick up. W would spend less then 2 days with them i would see her anxiety after w having them. Around August W came over to pick kids after my big surgery and only took our S9 our first son stating he is related to me if he wasn't I wouldn't care either of course i been trying to keep kids safe she then brings him back 2 weeks later but if I didn't do what she said she would use only him as a pawn. Now D9 and S8 feel abandoned and w Doesn't help by telling them she never wanted them. So I finally put my fot down and said to w i won't allow you and ow mentally abuse my kids of course denied. Since then a month she separated kids won't let me see S9 who knows what she told me son. While I have D9 and S8 which they all again are adopted by us. Since then my laywer seeking for full custody and bring S9 back home. So now I have a question if you dont mind.
I understand ya H/W are angry,mad or hurt with your spouse but why take the anger out on your child lash out on them not care of kids feeling or emotions.i break my head not understanding why hurt children's in the process. How can I show W she is hurting them or how can I want her to love her kids again. W will be served next week with custody of all 3 kids and child support will this make her more angry or will this wake her up. After everything she has cause us I still wish her the best and happiness I don't ever want to hurt her as she done with US.
Hi Artista, I posted a welcome on Hoosjim's thread, but you may not have seen it. I'm sure everyone is eager to hear your story. I see where you are getting the same questions from LBH's that I use to get. It's normal. Some will think if they do what your H did, then they can save their M, too.
Anyway, I just wanted to welcome you. From what I have read in your posts, you are going to be very helpful here.
I understand ya H/W are angry,mad or hurt with your spouse but why take the anger out on your child lash out on them not care of kids feeling or emotions.i break my head not understanding why hurt children's in the process. How can I show W she is hurting them or how can I want her to love her kids again. W will be served next week with custody of all 3 kids and child support will this make her more angry or will this wake her up. After everything she has cause us I still wish her the best and happiness I don't ever want to hurt her as she done with US.
good afternoon, marina7... i cannot answer your question... i didn't have anger toward my H... the entire time i was cheating, i knew it was wrong, and i knew he did not deserve it... i could not rewrite our history... even though others (mainly friends) tried to rewrite it for me... but i would not let them... when it came down to it, i could not and would not lie to myself... i never made excuses for my waywardness... during this time, H thought there was something wrong with me, and that i needed to figure out what that was--on my own... without him... i believe he was protecting himself...
regarding our sons, i never did anything to purposely hurt them... i did not use them as pawns... for twelve years, i had my kids 24 hours a day, 7 days a week--since i homeschooled them... i poured myself into them... when i moved across the country, it was to be for maybe 4 weeks, and that turned into 18 months... i came back home for a visit for three weeks after being away for two months... my sons came back with me and stayed for 8 weeks... a month after they left, i returned to visit them for 2 weeks... and then one month later, i went back for a one week visit... about six weeks later, i went back to visit for two weeks during the holidays... and about two months later, i visited again for 2 weeks... then about 8 weeks after that, they came for the summer again... and at the end of the summer, the three of us came back for good... so i saw them as much as i could... i am not saying what i did did not hurt my kids... i am saying that i did not purposely hurt them...
when i wasn't with them, i would still homeschool them via SKYPE... i worked part time, so when i would get off work, i would go home and do school with them... it was 1:00 pm my time, and 10:00 am their time, so that worked out well... so we SKYPED for several hours M-F while i was living away... unconventional... but i did get bombarded with heavy guilt about 6 months after i came home for good (right before the reconciliation)... it hit me hard... but nobody held it against me... not my H, not my sons, not my siblings, etc... they say i did what i did--retreated across the country--as a way of saving myself... i say, "perhaps..."
so i am sorry that i am not able to shed any light on your question... i am sorry you and your children are having to endure such heartache... all i can say is try to do what my husband finally did (after months and months of snooping and splicing every syllable)... let her go... don't try to figure her out... do everything you can to live your life with your children in an authentic way... right now your wife is like a poison to you and your family... do what you must to preserve yourself and your children...
thank you, sandi2... i appreciate that... i have been reading your contributions since circa March 2015, and it is kind of strange to be in here now, after all this time! when i first started reading, the posters at that time were Heavy-D, RD500, Pink, Elly, Bob, Jelly Bean, Sherman 333, Mozza (who i thought seemed really cool and wise beyond his years)... etc... i would read their situations, get so mad at their spouses--all the while realizing i was guilty of what their spouses were doing to them... there have been many times when i would, in my head, say, "i hope sandi2 comes to give this guy her two cents."
So great that you're sharing your story, Artista. Did you H do things to push you away, i.e. reasoning, talking about R, that contributed to you physically separating so far away across the country? Or was it something you would've done regardless?
We were separated at the time, but still very connected... My father, who was 89 at the time, had just suffered an aortic aneurysm... miraculously, he survived, but it was traumatic for my family. My H was supportive... I was not in an actual affair during this time... We both thought it would be good for me to get away... My H thought something was wrong with me... Since my niece (who is my age and like a sister to me) knew of our issues, I felt safe going to stay with her for a few weeks... Which turned in to 18 months...
At the time I asked my H if he was just trying to send me away... He assured me he wasn't... But after all was said and done, that is what he was doing... He knew he needed to be away from me and saw this as the only real way it could happen...
So what happened during your time away from your H that made you want to return?
Tread, I did not come back to my husband... I came back because my daddy was going to have gall bladder surgery... When I came back, we all decided that I would stay and live with my parents to help them with every day things... Today they are 91 and 94, in good health but cannot drive and run errands, stuff like that... while I lived with my niece and her family, I felt sheltered... like I was at a retreat... I was ready to face my life head on, to be with my sons--who needed me...
So you two still aren't toegther?
So you two still aren't toegther?
Sorry about my confused wording... We are together... Since April 2015... About 8 months after I returned... My siblings and I work together to be there for my parents, who are visiting Las Vegas now to bring in the New Year--along with one of my sisters and her husband, and my two brothers and their wives...
So you returned home to take care of your parents. But what actually brought you and your H back together?
Hi Artista
I think we will all be interested in the dynamics of your reconciliation, although, of course, all situations are individual and nuanced. Was it a "natural" process as such or was there a dramatic change of circumstances?
thank you
Hi Artista
I think we will all be interested in the dynamics of your reconciliation, although, of course, all situations are individual and nuanced. Was it a "natural" process as such or was there a dramatic change of circumstances?
thank you
One thing about me that may not be so helpful to LBHS here is, I am not one to lie to myself... I never rewrote history, I never used my H's shortcomings to justify my infidelity... In essence, I own my $h!t... He was not perfect, and he left me wanting at times, but we had a very good marriage... He didn't deserve the pain I caused... He would never have thought that I would ever do what I did... While we were separated and I had a couple of relationships, one being very serious that lasted about 18 months, in the back of my mind, I felt that these relationships were inauthentic... Not the real thing like my marriage was... Even though I saw myself having a life with that serious relationship, it still seemed not quite true...
I never saw myself ending up with the initial OM...
anyway--i was there in NC for 16 months before i finally came back to California for good... during that time, life went on in both of our lives... my father-in-law passed away... my father had a major surgery... H and i were in touch, but it was mainly business-like... i moved back in with my parents... and it was another 7 months before I approached my husband regarding reconciliation… and he needed time to think on it… about a month…
I came here to ask about your post above and what happened to make you approach your H, then I read your last post above about feeling your M was authentic, which I think answers the big reason.
But I'd still like to know if you saw yourself wanting to approach your H as part of the reason for moving back to Cali, or if the move was to be closer to your kids. At what point in that 7 months did you realize you wanted to reconcile, and what was the interaction between you and H during that 7 month So?
on the one hand, i too am a girly, girl... i love pretty things, the color pale pink, painted toes, blush lip gloss... on the other hand, i can hang with the guys... my best friend is male, and i tend to get along with males... my female friends are my sisters... i am a sports fanatic, whisky and tequila shooter, Scotch sipper... no fruity mixed drinks for me... i taught my sons how to throw a spiral with a football, how to bat, and how to catch fly balls, how to play pool... i speak proper English but can take on the vocabulary of a drunken sailor in a split second... on my son's 21st birthday last year, he and i smoked cigars and drank bourbon (something i had promised him since he was about 10)...
artista,
The paragraph above is an excerpt of a message that you posted on hoosjim's thread (the boldface is mine). It struck a chord with me because my XW had a guy best friend (her BFF) during the latter years of our marriage. My XW assured me that a husband ranks above a BFF and that I shouldn't be worried. That didn't turn out well.
Given your history, I was surprised to see that you have a best friend that's a guy. It seems to me that you, being married, having a guy best friend would be similar to a "reformed" alcoholic hanging out in a liquor store. The end result seems inevitable.
Am I wrong? Is your husband okay with you having a guy as a best friend?
on the one hand, i too am a girly, girl... i love pretty things, the color pale pink, painted toes, blush lip gloss... on the other hand, i can hang with the guys... my best friend is male, and i tend to get along with males... my female friends are my sisters... i am a sports fanatic, whisky and tequila shooter, Scotch sipper... no fruity mixed drinks for me... i taught my sons how to throw a spiral with a football, how to bat, and how to catch fly balls, how to play pool... i speak proper English but can take on the vocabulary of a drunken sailor in a split second... on my son's 21st birthday last year, he and i smoked cigars and drank bourbon (something i had promised him since he was about 10)...
artista,
The paragraph above is an excerpt of a message that you posted on hoosjim's thread (the boldface is mine). It struck a chord with me because my XW had a guy best friend (her BFF) during the latter years of our marriage. My XW assured me that a husband ranks above a BFF and that I shouldn't be worried. That didn't turn out well.
Given your history, I was surprised to see that you have a best friend that's a guy. It seems to me that you, being married, having a guy best friend would be similar to a "reformed" alcoholic hanging out in a liquor store. The end result seems inevitable.
Am I wrong? Is your husband okay with you having a guy as a best friend?
good point, doodler... my best friend has been my friend since 1971... i was 6 and he was 8 when my brother married his sister... so he is my brother's brother-in-law and his sister is my sister-in-law... he is family, really... we went to the same high school and told everybody we were cousins... he knows the history of my family since he has been around and involved in our lives all these decades... he knows all the ins and outs as if he were a sibling... he is friends with my H, and they have conversations between themselves--that i am not a part of... my sons know him as Uncle... if it were anybody else, any other male, it would not fly... i would say that our relationship is akin to that of Will and Grace (the sitcom)...
--artista
artista,
Thank you for the explanation! I feel better now.
I just saw this and wanted to say I have a male best friend too. It's a mixed blessing! It never seemed to affect my marriage except for one isolated incident.
I just saw this and wanted to say I have a male best friend too. It's a mixed blessing! It never seemed to affect my marriage except for one isolated incident.
NicoleR,
When I met my wife (now XW), she had a guy friend; she may have referred to him as a "best friend," but I don't remember. I didn't have any problem with that because he was never a threat to our marriage and I knew I was my wife's number one guy.
After a decade of marriage, my wife met a guy that had childhood experiences similar to my wife's childhood experiences (they'd both been sexually abused and had difficult parents). I actually liked the guy and I was appreciative that he was someone that could really understand the trauma my wife went through as a child. Unfortunately, that didn't work out so well.
Artista's best friend had been a friend since childhood, and I think that makes a big difference. Regardless, I always felt like I was my wife's best friend until the new guy came along.
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Below is and clipping from a
Psychology Today article:
Many married women (and married men) insist that having a best friend of the opposite sex is perfectly healthy. In fact, they say that opposite sex friends make better friends because they bring very different perspectives to the relationship. But let's look at a few things here.
First, healthy friendship involves emotional intimacy, as well it should. Deep friendship leads to a level of sharing that is selective and usually confidential. That means, others are excluded from the conversations. When a woman shares intimate feelings with a man who isn't her husband, a wedge forms between her and her husband. He is excluded from the privacy she shares with her male best friend. And when this starts to happen- beware. Husband is on the outside looking inward.
Second, let's be adults. Physical intimacy is the sequel of emotional intimacy in most healthy relationships. That's the way we are wired as humans. Give emotionally intimate heterosexual couples enough time and physical intimacy follows. Or, at least the temptation to be physical emerges. In same sex friendships between heterosexuals, natural boundaries exist preventing sexual intimacy from occurring.
There's another thing. Kids. How would your fifteen year old feel if he walked into a restaurant and saw you, his mother, having dinner with your best friend Sam while dad was at home. Pretty weird. And kids' feelings count. I've listened to too much heartache from kids over the years whose parents have fallen "out of love" with their spouses and "into love" with other people. This really messes up kids' lives.
So the simple answer to the above question is an unabashed "No." Married mothers shouldn't have men as their best friends and vice versa. If not for their kids' sake, do it for the health of their marriages. At a time when the divorce rate is through the roof, families are fractured and ex-wives, ex-husbands and kids are filled with pain, let's begin to put some healthy boundaries around relationships and really care for them. This means, moms, that your best friends should be women.
Doodler, I'll have to find and read your thread to learn more about what happened. In Artista's case it sounds ok. In my case my friend has been my best friend for 20 years and I'm like part of his family. When we both got married I asked him to call my husband if he wants to speak with me and I would call his wife. All four of us became friends until my husband left. Now it's the three of us. It's become a somewhat unprecedented situation more recently because he and his wife have problems and they both call me and I've needed their help with my husband leaving. I agree that male best friends for married women don't make sense aside from my male best friend being a better role model for my daughter than my husband at this time. It's hard to undo the friendship, especially during this crisis in my life, but I won't seek any new male friends in the future except a future spouse.
I would not be ok with my wife having a male best-friend no matter how long she'd known him. In fact, it would have been a deal-breaker while we were dating.
Artista's best friend had been a friend since childhood, and I think that makes a big difference. Regardless, I always felt like I was my wife's best friend until the new guy came along.
doodler, i have to say that my H is truly my best friend... he and i can actually finish each other's sentences... have the same exact thoughts at the same exact moment... we know each other so well... have so many inside jokes between the two of us... many times, "out of the blue," we had the same exact thought--very weird... we are kindred spirits... this history would often come to my mind while we were separated... H said he would think on this too while we were apart... deep down, neither of us wanted to lose that... neither of us wanted to cut all those thousands of strands of thread that connected us... our relationship is deeper than the relationship between me and my male bf...
--artista
I would not be ok with my wife having a male best-friend no matter how long she'd known him. In fact, it would have been a deal-breaker while we were dating.
and if i were dating someone who could not accept my best friend that i had since 1971, that would have been a deal-breaker for me...
and if i were dating someone who could not accept my best friend that i had since 1971, that would have been a deal-breaker for me...
artista,
I understand what you're saying and I agree with you.
I think this may be more of semantics issue, particularly on this forum, rather than an issue with you having a male friend. If your husband is your "best friend," then the other guy could be called your "life-long friend" (or some other choice of words). The reason I say that is because the word "best" implies that there's only one; there's no room for two best friends.
Or maybe bestest friend (husband) and best friend (that other unmentionable guy)...
and if i were dating someone who could not accept my best friend that i had since 1971, that would have been a deal-breaker for me...
artista,
I understand what you're saying and I agree with you.
I think this may be more of semantics issue, particularly on this forum, rather than an issue with you having a male friend. If your husband is your "best friend," then the other guy could be called your "life-long friend" (or some other choice of words). The reason I say that is because the word "best" implies that there's only one; there's no room for two best friends.
Or maybe bestest friend (husband) and best friend (that other unmentionable guy)...
yes, i agree... only room for one best friend... i think when it comes to the spouse position, there should be no one (other than God) who comes before or above... to me that is a given... i do like thinking of my friend as my lifelong friend... but i have a couple more of those, and i am not as close to them as i am to him...
in any case, in my lifetime, there are three people whom i consider kindred spirits... my H is one of them... at certain times in my life, i have been close with the other two kindred spirits (both female)... meaning, that at certain times in my life, they were in my everyday life... at this point in time, neither are in my everyday life, but they are still kindred spirits... we keep in touch from time-to-time... male BF is not one of my kindred spirits...
--artista
But I'd still like to know if you saw yourself wanting to approach your H as part of the reason for moving back to Cali, or if the move was to be closer to your kids. At what point in that 7 months did you realize you wanted to reconcile, and what was the interaction between you and H during that 7 month So?
Hey artista! I am just putting Coconut's question back here again from earlier in your thread. Do you mind sharing what happened and answering his questions, especially the bolded part (that's by me).
Bumping this up for Artista to see Maikas post again...would like to know the same
artista, I am with the others!
We are all so glad you have come to DB land and shared your story and your wisdom with the other posters. You and Sandi offer a unique POV that is so helpful in understanding a WW mindset and the best way to respond to it. Your wisdom now having come through it all and still saved your M is remarkable.
I would also personally like to hear more about your process, if you will. I did not share much about my sitch or my mindset last fall, and now know my H could potentially read my posts. I really like knowing your take on where you were in your mindset back then compared to now and how you see yourself differently.
I know I want my M to work and I do love my H. I still see that I have some at risk thinking patterns that are counterproductive to piecing. I still have thoughts of wondering what my life would have been like had we not reconciled. I also still have some resentment that surfaces from time to time. I am working on it. It is a strange place to be when you know something isn't right verses not wanting to face or ignore it nonetheless.
Thank you for your time!
Blu
Mozza (who i thought seemed really cool and wise beyond his years)
Ha! I don't know if you'll ever read this, but thank you Arista! I have not read your entire story, but looking for mentions of my username after a long time away, I found your thread and I wanted you to know that I had read it and it made me all warm inside. There are a lot of cool people around here and a lot of wisdom. I grew a lot thanks to the support I got here. Now I'll try to deflate my head before someone IRL notices... Hope you're well!