Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: BluWave Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 10/23/17 12:37 PM
Hello friends,

I hit 100, so I thought it was time for a new thread. So, I am going to skip another introduction in this thread, but you can read it on my last one. Thank you for commenting leah, roist, sotto, 25, and coconut. I will def get back to you guys individually later. I only have a few minutes today.

So, the OM (is that what I call him?) continues to pay me a lot of attention. It's confusing because even as I write that, I recognize that I sound as if it is happening to me. I don't want to be a victim, I want to be in control. But, do I like the attention? Yes. Do I flirt back? Yes. Does H have any idea? No. ... The biggest question: is this wrong? Maybe. Or maybe I am in denial? Maybe this is very wrong and this is how it begins .... I can't tell actually.

I was somewhat overwhelmed with guilt initially, but I am somehow losing that. Real talk: I like how it makes me feel. I feel excited, attractive, and alive. I have these boundaries that I have created in my mind that I won't cross, but at times they feel blurry. This is a totally new and unexpected place to be.

The good news about this is that I am starting to see my H in a more positive light. If I compare him to OM, he wins hands down. I don't want this OM. I am also starting to see how an A can start--I am starting to get it. I just don't plan on having one. ... Am I playing with fire tho? .... I am afraid, yes.

You guys can 2*4 all you want, but I don't know that it will change much here. I think this reads worse than it is. Strange as it may sound, I think this could be a good thing for my M in the long run.

Blu


Thread 1:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2670289#Post2670289

Thread 2:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2677578&page=1

Thread 3:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2688297#Post2688297

Thread 4:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2712057&page=1

Thread 5:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2745868&page=1

Thread 6:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2745874&page=1
Posted By: EastTN Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 10/23/17 01:08 PM
You are absolutely playing with fire. This will NOT strengthen your M. You are at risk of doing to him what he did to you. You may feel justified in doing that but itís still wrong. Donít want to piece? Want out of your M? Thatís fine. We know the LBS can turn into the WAS.

But if youíre going to, at least have the decency and dignity to END your M rather than using your husband as plan B.
Posted By: Matrix Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 10/23/17 01:15 PM
Blu,

Don't. Even.

There are many cases where the BS becomes a WS down the road. I think you are playing with fire here and you need to back up a bit. I think that the only reason that this EA has not progressed further is because of this forum and all that you have read on the subject.

I think that this might be a bit of a cry for help from you. Kind of like when someone talks openly about suicide. It usually means they want someone to talk them out of it.

I know this AP makes you very good. THEY ALL DO!!! That is how A's start. If they made us feel like s--t, well we would not be attracted to them.

You have too much skin in the game. You have blood, sweat and tears invested in saving your marriage and keeping your family together. I can read the justification and rationalization in your words. You are already making excuses as to why it's just "innocent" right now. It's not. This is how these things start. Just an "innocent friend that makes me feel good".

I think you need to really step back from this and make sure you mark your lines in the sand with concrete.
Posted By: Coconut Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 10/23/17 01:46 PM
Blu,

I could not care less about you hurting your husband, but I worry about you losing yourself in this, and your R with your kids and others you love. I've seen firsthand how acting immorally can lower the moral standard in someone and it isn't pretty. As with anything that gives you a rush, once that initial act becomes the norm, you require more to get that feeling again. You felt guilty because you knew what you were doing was wrong, but now you don't feel guilty, so will the same things keep feeling good are will it require taking it a step further?

I've witnessed how lowering the moral standard can change a person and it isn't pretty. Things that are fun to do with loved ones become tedious because you don't get the rush you could feel if you were living your secret, exciting life. And it's a tough hole to climb out of once you start digging it.

Just be aware that you could lose yourself in this one, think about the OW, and how you describe her life, she likely started out feeling guilty about what she was doing too.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 10/23/17 03:41 PM
blu

your h had an affair and others knew of it. That is just crushing to the ego. I don't begrudge you wanting to be comforted by the attention of another man. To imagine a relationship without the gloomy cloud of the affair looming over you.

It's interesting that you find it enlightening into your h's affair.

It may help you "get it". Of course I'm referring to the attention you're getting, not an actual affair.

Of note is that the OM knows you are unhappily married, correct? How so?

Finally, I've learned something recently. It may resonate with you. I met a man I'm interested in. We seem to connect well and I'm attracted to him. Which is not common for me the past year. Internally I got ahead of myself emotionally and had to slow myself down.

I projected a lot onto this man. In my head I had Beliefs that may not be true but what I wish for in a man.


And I could so imagine loving him, that it felt like I already did! As if thinking about being in love, was the same thing as being in love. This was a new experience for me. I am still processing this. It's impossible to be real, but it felt that way.

I think I'll be dating him too. But I hope I'm self aware enough to know that what I hope for him to be, his potential as a partner, is not the same as who he really is. Only time and honest reflection will reveal our compatibility.

If you go down the road (in your head, I mean!) think it out for real.

So your family breaks up, and your kids then find out you had an affair (& yeah, daddy did too, but his was a long time ago). Lots of pressure to put on a new r with OM.

He better be worth it, which you cannot know in advance.

OR you have OM on the side and you stay married. Some moral gymnastics are in order.


Don't get ahead of yourself. This OM is not the solution to your loneliness.

I have the feeling you can enjoy the attention without getting ahead of yourself. I could be wrong. But I get it.


Back to you and the m...
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 10/23/17 03:42 PM
FTR
I recall the OW in your case and I don't believe she felt guilty at all, at any time.
Posted By: roist Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 10/24/17 03:58 AM
Oh blu,

You are bending a line you shouldn't even be approaching. I understand being lonely and unsatisfied whilst still married.

For me if you are in a R you stay and work on it. If that's not possible you end it. Having an affair should not be an option. Especially after being hurt by one, yourself.

I think that you think that the knowledge etc that you picked up here and on your journey will prevent you from crossing that line. It should but I wouldn't count on it.

I am glad it has given you the insight into how it could happen and even how it happened with H.

And my 2x4 is that I don't believe you are in a good enough place to even look at that fire, let alone play with it. You need to tell OM clearly that you wish no further contact, because you are not a cheating woman. And yes an EA is cheating.

Good luck. Thanks for your open honesty
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 10/24/17 04:03 AM
I don't see this as an EA. Even if I did, I'd rather have had h have an EA than a PA for sure.

Blue is working her a$$ off on the m.

She Endured the horror of a semi public affair in a small town, the OW was a nutcase to boot, Blu took her h back, pieced for 2 years, they Went to Retrovaille, and she is doing all that is human possible to feel the same way she used to feel, about her h.

She's trying to process the appeal of this OM and relate it to her h's A. She's gaining insight.

That is how I read her posts. I don't think she should end her marriage b/c there's a guy at work paying attention to her.
Posted By: BluWave Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 10/24/17 04:35 AM
Thanks for all the replies. I am going to back track a bit and reply to the other posters as well.

Leah, what you say makes sense to me! I think it's human nature that if we feel down, or lonely, then positive attention from others feels great! More than that, it becomes vital. When it's from a person that is attracted to you, and if you are attracted to them, it can feel almost electric. I think I can also better understand how As can become addictive. You say there was an adrenaline rush and I imagine that like a little high--like a drug--and so when the fix is over, you can be left wanting it again. It starts to become more about that sensation than the OP or the reality of the sitch. I don't feel that this strongly with this OM, but I can absolutely understand better now how that happens. Attention feels good and we are left wanting more ...

roist, you say you don't have words to help me through, and then you say all of these things and wow, it was awesome! Thank you. You are correct; there is something to be said about H and his commitment to me, even as I have harbored so much resentment and been on the fence about the M. It has been some time now and he is still all in. Thank you for saying it reflects my worth, that means a lot to me. The last few years has taken a giant hit to my self confidence--I mean, how could it not?!? I do think I bring a lot to the table and he sees that too. Something about the dynamic with this OM has helped me to understand that an A can be more about the self (and our core insecurities) and less about the M or the spouse (maybe not all As, but it is definitely possible). This helps me to see that my H was not having an A to attack me, but more so he was running from his life and our M, and having an identity crisis. Esther Perel explains this beautifully. I also agree that my resentment is what holds me back. That is something that I am so, so aware of and want to move through!

Sotto, thank you for that! I really struggle with the forgiveness piece. It is interesting that we are both highly invested in forgiving, but for a different outcome. Reading your post made me think about myself and if I would have the same motivation to forgive H had we not come back together. And you know what? I have blindly assumed that I would not and that I would not need to. Perhaps that is telling about me. He is still the father of my kids, so I should want forgive him regardless. More than this, if we ended up with our M or not, doesn't it behoove us to all personally to forgive? Isn't it a type of poison to the psyche to hold on to anger/hurt/resentment? I wish I could definitively say yes, but I don't know. There is a reason that forgiveness is so hard, and I think ultimately we have these deep seeded self protective mechanisms that we are not even aware of. Oddly tho, the flirtation from this OM has helped me forgive H a little. Why? Because I am forced to see that it has nothing to do with H or my M; I am my own person and it is normal to have attraction to others! I think I lacked that thinking before because I am such a serial monogamous. I think his A hit me so hard because I felt like H was doing this awful thing to me and that OW (a so called friend) was also doing it to me. I can say now that the attraction I have with this OM has nothing to do with H or my M.

To Be Continued ....
Posted By: roist Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 10/24/17 04:57 AM
25. I agree with you but stand by my warning/cautionary advice. I ill clarify I wasn't saying yo leave, but it's preferable to an A.
Blu, I don't blame you, I really don't. Your R with your H has been like walking across a desert for 2 weeks in your bare feet and you ran out of water a week ago. OM is like a bucket of water that has suddenly appeared, normally you'd never think of drinking from a bucket, but in your utterly parched and deprived state that bucket looks glorious. But if you had been walking through a park instead of the desert you probably wouldn't give that crusty old bucket a second glance, LOL! I'm not saying OM is crusty, but he probably is. He may even have scabies. Gross. wink
Posted By: BluWave Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 10/24/17 05:10 AM
I was posting at the same time based on the posts from my last thread, while you guys are posting new ones here; I can't keep up with you people! lol.

25, as always, thank you. I feel like you understand me! My posts are not a cry for help, I am not having any type of A--ea, fantasy, etc--and I would not. Like my title says, I do not want to be a wayward wife! You know what I have learned though? It really can happen to anyone. I didn't quite get that before--and there is so much ugliness and shame around As--but now I actually think it is human nature to have attraction to more than one person. The difference between us all is what we do with those attractions, if and how we act on them, and of course we all have a different moral compass. What one considers very wrong, another may think it not as bad. My thinking was always that I could only be attracted to one person, them to me, and that neither could even think outside of that. Perhaps that unrealistic thinking led to my marital demise ...

I only assumed that posters would have a strong response to my post. I am okay with that--I am a big girl, I can take it. I also know that it brings up feelings for others that have been burned. I have responses to reading threads based on my own history and psychology. Here is the thing--you guys don't know me that well and I have also not shared many details. Are you guys defining flirtation the same way that I am???

This is what I will tell you about myself. I have always been a serial monogamous. I have some abandonment issues and depression from childhood. The nature of my Hs and OWs A and the way it played out could not have affected a person worse. The crushed me and I am still in recovery. It was also the hardest time in my life to have to go through that. So needless to say, my biggest struggle now is with resentment and forgiveness.

As I have taken a step back from Retrouvaille and actively piecing, I have taken a closer look at myself. Coincidentally, or not, this OM noticed. I have not had attention from OM in a long time, but more so, had it been there, I don't think I saw it for what it was. I have been so focused on H and the M and it became the only thing that mattered. That is not healthy or normal! I even went on a couple dates when H and I were separated and I felt nothing, totally numb. So this attention from OM is the first time in a very long time, I have opened my eyes and seen that there actually are other people in the world. We are not only meant to be with one, or statistically we would never find them ....

I am fortunate to have several close GFs to process all this with. I have known my BFF since childhood--and at times I think she knows me better than I know myself--so she is that person that I can tell anything to. I broke it all down, and I mean all the details. You know what? She was more relieved that I was shifting my view on men and Rs than she was concerned that I would have any type of A. I think it was processing with her that helped me to relieve my guilt. Her response was more, yes, you are a woman and women like to feel desired and sexy and this is not a big deal! It is okay to feel attraction and have mild flirtation, and it's normal. The line just needs to be defined and then followed.

In the mean time, I have really taken to the words of Esther Perel--she is like my personal guru! Everything she explains about infidelity--how it happens, why it's so hard to forgive--and the importance of novelty and passion, well it all makes perfect sense to me. She also explains that we don't ask for what we want. You know what I want? I want this type of attention and flirtation from my H! He has never really been that way and also he has his own wall of protection up. At some point I will need to just ask him for what I want.

So I have been thinking a lot, a lot, a lot .... about myself and what I want and need, about As and what they mean, and also about the kind of man my H is and how grateful to have him ...


I want to address all of you, I do, but I have so much to do today. I promise I will come back later ....
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 10/24/17 07:56 AM
Quote:
So, the OM (is that what I call him?) continues to pay me a lot of attention.


Is this a coworker or someone you see daily\weekly? Seeing him on some type of regular basis can become unhealthy, b\c you can begin to create a fantasy about you and this OM. Some people may not believe fantasies are serious, but that's the beginning of an EA. I am talking about one that grows and begins taking up head space and taking away from the R with your H. Your H cannot compete with your fantasy, much like you may not be able to compete with playboy bunnies (or maybe you can, but you get my point).

If you see him daily, I suggest you put as much space between you as possible. The more you are around him, the more familiar and comfortable you become with each other.

Quote:
It's confusing because even as I write that, I recognize that I sound as if it is happening to me. I don't want to be a victim, I want to be in control.


But you won't be in control if you continue to think you are simply enjoying basking in the ego food. No, you aren't planning to have an affair. I did not plan to gain weight, either, but I continued going back to the table. Same thing is happening here, you are hungry and going back for seconds.

I hope you caught Coconut's message about how easier it gets when the guilt stops. The danger you face at the moment is your resentment, hurt, (maybe disrespect) toward your H.....can easily turn into self justification. Your subconscious will say, "Why shouldn't I enjoy another man's attention, when I have not had it from my own H?". Then you will begin justifying other actions and first thing you know....your moral standards are being compromised a little. That is the danger.

I won't say you are a victim, b\c victims don't have much choice. You do have choices in this area. You aren't a victim, but you are vulnerable. So was I. I didn't get up one morning and decide to become involved with another man. It started when I received attention after years of no intimacy or "attention" from my H. Although my H did not have an A, I was hurt, had resentment, and felt disrespect for him. So, I was vulnerable, and any flirtations or male attention I would have completely had control over in the past.....was not so true at that current time in my life.

Quote:
But, do I like the attention? Yes. Do I flirt back? Yes. Does H have any idea? No. ... The biggest question: is this wrong?


We like the attention and flirting if it comes from a man we find attractive. If he repulsed you.....you would handle it much differently. You want to know if it is wrong. Are you trying to hide it? Does this interaction take place in front of people that know you, or do you feel the need to keep it private?

When some guy we hardly know gets a little flirty, it may make our day and we think, "Hey, I've still got it!" grin We smile and walk away. At least we should. It's when we continue to engage, that can cause problems. Besides, most of us don't want to see our H's showing the same type of attention to another woman.

Quote:
Maybe. Or maybe I am in denial? Maybe this is very wrong and this is how it begins .... I can't tell actually.


Yes, it's how affairs begin. The fact that you seem confused, IMHO, is your inner warning signal to walk away and stop engaging or encouraging it. I hope you won't take those words offensively, I don't think you are a woman who goes around trying to get men's attention.

Quote:
I like how it makes me feel. I feel excited, attractive, and alive. I have these boundaries that I have created in my mind that I won't cross, but at times they feel blurry. This is a totally new and unexpected place to be.


I once read that the first time a person takes cocaine they are instantly hooked. IDK if that is true and I've never tried it. Unfortunately, I am familiar with the feelings you are describing about the interactions with this OM. And, Blue, those boundary lines will become more and more blurred the longer you allow this to continue. I would not classify you as a wayward wife. I think you are responding to something you haven't had in some time. As I explained above, you are not experiencing something that unusual. But you are dangerously close to the fire, and I want to encourage you to not poke it. You and those you love will get burned. Don't deceive yourself into believing it is just flirting and won't hurt anyone. You are already questioning yourself.

Quote:
You guys can 2*4 all you want, but I don't know that it will change much here. I think this reads worse than it is. Strange as it may sound, I think this could be a good thing for my M in the long run.


I say this with tender concern, Blue, it kind of sounds as if you are smoothing it over. You were brave enough to bring this on board, so I hope you won't convince yourself it means nothing, and therefore, continue to engage. Many LBS have rebound experiences with other people, and you can stop this before it goes any further.

((Hugs))
Posted By: doodler Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 10/24/17 08:14 AM


I think it's an unconscious desire to ameliorate your anger for something that was lost and will never be regained.
Posted By: Lovelyp Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 10/24/17 09:14 PM
I agree with Sandi. While I sympathise with you for all you have gone through I feel you are playing with fire and you may not be able to stop things. Right now you are vulnerable and this OM providing what you really need. If you continue being close to him you will fall for him and may loose your marriage.This OM might look appealing because he knows he has competition and probably wants something with you so he will be very nice and appealing in order to get that. You might be suprised he has many other flaws too. For now he wont show, he will show only a good side to sweep you off your feet.
Posted By: Sotto Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 10/24/17 10:14 PM
I agree with Sandi's wise advice Blu - she has been there and she knows. I too was there to an extent & I've posted about it here a while ago. EArlier in our M and XH was working away a lot. Friendly with a guy at work and started to feel some attraction towards him. I still loved XH and was pretty surprised to be feeling attracted to another guy - but in hindsight, I had needs that weren't being met and I never said etc. Etc.

The other guy was married and attentive/complimentary. He was in my headspace and I fantasised a little about him. Nothing was ever said and I never saw him outside of work, but our exchanges did stray into mild flirtation and we did have a little contact by email in the evenings and weekends - I hate to say that now...

I recall once XH was away and we had a late meeting. It was a lovely summer evening and I thought he might ask me out for a drink and I thought I might say yes. He didn't and nothing more ever happened. I recall lying in bed with XH and having a fundamental realisation - that I couldn't happily lay my head on the pillow next to him knowing that I would be lying and deceiving him. I realised that I would lose what I loved - our marriage and relationship - if I crossed this line.

I never regretted not taking things any further and crossing that line. Truly I never regretted that - perhaps in some way my inadvertent distance during the period there was another guy on my mind paved the way for XH's subsequent affair? IDK. I'm certainly not proud of what I let happen and I recognise how A's can develop, which has helped my process XH's affair better.

I don't think your decision at this point should be - shall I get involved with this guy or not - I think it should be shall I remain in our marriage or not. Because even if you want to leave your marriage, leaving it by having an affair would be a destructive choice - and you know that already....((((hugs))))

I echo what lovelyp posts too...

Take care Blu and I hope there is something in here that is of help to you xx
Posted By: Ginger1 Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 10/25/17 01:40 AM
I am a silent follower, but I feel compelled to say something.

I have never cheated. I actually never have been tempted even though my ex was such a douche. I mean a real douche. However.....

My exH was my friend's boyfriend. I was in essence the "OW" We were 18, it is a long story.... but me and that friend are actually very good friends to this day.

I carried/carry the worst guilt inside of me for what I did. To this day, at 37 years old. even with the forgiveness. I feel like everything that has happened to me since then and continues to happen is because of what I did. And I feel I deserve it. I explore this often in IC. My IC is really working with me to stop this thought.

We explored why it happened. The circumstances surrounding it. I was 18, my dad left my mom, my mom resented me, she went back to using drugs, my dad moved out and he was my everything and kept me alive all these years. I was out on my own due to my mother's drug habit, I was struggling in college.... I was abandoned and completely alone. I was scared. He paid me attention, he gave me a false sense of security and I fell for it. I was so desperate and scared, I knew I was hurting my friend, but being with him was giving me almost the only reason for living at that time.

For the longest time, I felt like they were a bunch of excuses. My IC assures me it was me trying to keep myself alive. I was trying to survive. And she was right, and I hate that it was at my friend's expense.

I say this because #1- I can actually see where the temptation in if you feel so depressed and hopeless and there is one thing that makes you feel good. I do understand how affairs can happen in certain situations. I am not saying they are right, but I can understand where they can happen. #2 I would suggest you don't cross the line because I can tell you are a loving sensitive person, and you will feel the guilt. Even though "you ex did it too" the guilt is real, and for me it is awful. I don't want you to have to add that to your plate.

After divorce, a higher power has been testing me. With married men. Two of them were friends of friends whom I had known. One was so far out of my league, he was a running joke amongst a group of married friends on which friend would they sleep with. it was him for the girls and his wife for the guys. I was newly divorced. Imagine this guy reaches out to me and says he has always been attracted to me and had a crush on me? It was tempting. I am not going to lie. Mind you, I am as single as they come, but I just couldn't do it. I didn't want to live with that or inflict the same pain on anyone else that was inflicted on me. I did kiss some random married stranger once when I was drunk. I remembered he was married when we were kissing and I put a halt to it immediately. I felt awful.

While it probably feels like a cool drink of water in a very dry and hot desert, the guilt that comes later is just awful. But yes, I can see how it can happen.

I do see one huge positive coming from this for you. I know you struggle with what your ex did everyday of your life and you stay. Understading how it could possibly happen may help you move past that a bit.

take care of yourself.
Posted By: OwnIt Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 10/25/17 03:42 AM
Blu,

You are one of the most amazing people on this board for sharing your thoughts and insights. Your warmth, caring and intelligence come through in everything you write.

I think you are trying to even the score with your H in some twisted way. I get it. Totally.

But the warmth, caring and intelligence are going to prevent you from enjoying this and like Ginger you will be regretting it for a long time to come.

Dig deeper Blu. Find true forgiveness for this man and for yourself.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 10/25/17 09:19 AM
Blu

From your earlier post, it is not really forgiveness alone that troubled you, so much as wanting to feel the way you once did? The time machine piece.

Esther Perel's work will help some, I hope. I worry she's referring to a small minority of couples, post affair. (At least in our culture).

OTOH, Div Busters are a small minority too.

Anyhow, just wanted to ask
Posted By: BluWave Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 10/25/17 10:22 AM
Thank you, everyone! I am not avoiding any of you or the questions. Today has been a very busy day at work and I have not had the time to sit down and respond thoroughly. You guys have given me so much to think about. And I am thinking. A lot. ... Sandi, I was hoping you would weigh in--I really appreciate it. I feel as if you get it. And you are right.

I am going to read all of your posts again a couple times and keep processing. This is sitch confusing, but eye opening at the same time. You guys are the best! I will be back ...

Thank you!
Blu
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 10/25/17 10:53 AM
It's good to hear from you, Blue. There are a lot of people here that really care. I say this b\c I don't want you to feel embarrassed or think you will lose support.

The good news is that you are bringing this into the light. It's not easy to admit what you shared with the board, but it was the right decision.

I am here for you, and will do anything I can to help. ((Hugs))
Posted By: Stormchaser Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 10/27/17 05:47 AM
Blu - I was in the same boat after Dday.

Please. Don't. I came dangerously close myself.

I had this long soliloquy typed out but deleted it. No need to get into specifics.

When I look back on it, I'm glad I stopped it. It showed that I had what my WW didn't have - the ability to make the right choice. Sure, the chemical high was great - that's exactly what my W experienced with OM. But I stopped.

I'm glad I did. I feel SO much better now about it.
Posted By: BluWave Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 11/14/17 05:59 AM
Hi everyone.

I have not been on the boards much. While I wasn't avoiding posting before, perhaps now I am. ... I appreciate people's feedback, but this is mostly a population of people that 1. have been burned and may project feelings about that, 2. want to save their M. (I get it, those were both me). My M is at a complete standstill right now, and it is by my choosing. I have communicated that to H. I don't have the desire or energy to work on things right now. While I know it cannot stay this way, right now it feels safe. Since I have taken the pressure off myself to keep working on it, working on forgiveness, etc, I actually feel better. It is a very welcomed relief. When H came back, I was so desperate and weak--I wasn't thinking clearly--I just needed and wanted the safety of him. I want to make the decision from a place of strength and confidence. I feel that I haven't done that yet.

The last few months, I have focused more on myself, my own health and happiness, and I am starting to see H through a different lens. I don't mean that I see him more positive or more negative, I mean that I am more shifting my perspective away from only thinking that I need him. I haven't really given myself permission to let go. I haven't entertained the idea that I may not want this M to work and I may not want to be with him. I feel like I owe it to myself to at least explore this. While I completely understand that As happen, and that he is remorseful and regretful, I also still do not want this in my history. Something about it still feels very wrong and unnatural for me.

And then there is OM. I am not sure what to say about him and that R because it's quite unclear. Am I having an A? Maybe. I guess it depends on who you ask and how you define it. Does he consume my thoughts? No. Am I in a "fog" or imagining it is something better? No. Am I leaving my H for another man? No. Not at all. My R with him is what it is and I am just allowing it to be more information. It is another piece in the puzzle. It's not as if I think he would be a better match for me, or that I think I know him all that well. I actually don't think that at all and if anything my H brings so much more to the table. I get that.

I honestly don't feel embarrassed, ashamed, or guilty. Should I? Maybe. But I don't. I am also not interested in 2*4s. If anything, it is helping me understand how easily A's can happen. So if you want to comment and I can respect your POV, go ahead. If you want to lecture me or project your own issues on here, please don't waste your time. It won't make a difference and I can't take that seriously anyhow. We each need to learn as we go and in our own ways. I just wanted to update because I have not been posting or checking here much lately. I will be back later. Hope you all are well.

Blu
Posted By: doodler Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 11/14/17 06:51 AM
Originally Posted By: BluWave
And then there is OM. I am not sure what to say about him and that R because it's quite unclear. Am I having an A? Maybe. I guess it depends on who you ask and how you define it. Does he consume my thoughts? No. Am I in a "fog" or imagining it is something better? No. Am I leaving my H for another man? No. Not at all. My R with him is what it is and I am just allowing it to be more information. It is another piece in the puzzle. It's not as if I think he would be a better match for me, or that I think I know him all that well. I actually don't think that at all and if anything my H brings so much more to the table. I get that.


Blu,

Inquiring minds want to know; what do you get from the OM? Or maybe a better question is, what's the attraction to the OM? Do you two swap slobber or do you just talk? Are you going to be on the cover of one of the tabloids at the grocery store checkout?

Throw us a bone; we want the juicy stuff.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 11/14/17 11:01 AM
I'm not interested in the slobbery stuff. I think this is a heavy topic.

Blu if you checked my thread lately, I've dipped my toe/foot into the dating world. I had THOUGHT i'd do a little 'How Stella Got her Groove Back" fun stuff.

And i made a date weeks ago for this Friday, with G. He's a nice guy i'm very comfortable with. No sparks yet but who knows?

But meanwhile, M has steadily courted and impressed and connected with me. It would take me a long time to say the "L" word but I can imagine it happening with M.


Meanwhile, the history with h, leaving aside yet more dark discoveries, is something I won't be able to get past. And that is NOT about withholding forgiveness.
it is about what I could ever have with h, again, after seeing what I have seen.

Relevant anecdote -

My lovely brother J is my closest brother, my son's Godfather. And J has just been diagnosed with kidney cancer. I was at his house. He did not know I could see him and his wife down the hall. They were quietly talking.

I saw her lay her head on his shoulder and he kissed her forehead, and then they hugged and briefly, they cried hard, and embraced.

I was very moved. It was what I wanted for MY m, it was what I wished for with my own h, but now I can see that I'll never have it with h, despite our long history.

Maybe you can rebuild your m, and the history can include a huge pothole that you got past.
I think it could be a good thing.

OR you could always wonder when the next shoe will drop...

But here's the thing it's about imo,

it's about what YOU CHOOSE, What YOU want, not whether he's committed or IF he will do "the work" as if the assumption is always that it's what you "need/want" for your life.

it is NOT now about whether HE
will be "remain remorseful/ & earn the trust" and blah blah blah.

I think it's all about what YOU want in your life.


Like you said, you wanted your old life back so badly that it was all you could think of and when he wanted back in, he got back in. I do not make light of his work, it's a rare brave & humbling thing.

So now, Blu, what would you like YOUR LIFE to look like and include?
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 11/15/17 01:12 AM
Thanks for touching bases again. I doubt there will be 2x4's. This is your life to live, and we want you to be safe and happy. You've been through a lot, and what you are currently experiencing is not uncommon in the LBS from what I've read. Maybe you will find your way back to your H, or take a different road.

Please stay in touch.

((hugs))
Posted By: BluWave Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 11/16/17 06:20 AM
Sandi, thank you for that. I really appreciate it. My sitch has certainly taught me to be less judgemental of others, including my own H. I'll admit it, I don't have much motivation to read here or post these days. Right now I don't want to save my M. It has been the one thing that has caused me so much grief and unhappiness in the last several years. We ended up getting into a R talk last night. It was so F-ING SAD! I don't want to rehash the details here, but in a nutshell, the M as we know it today is dead. I just can't keep forcing this. I need to let go because I haven't fully let go of this man or this M in 17 years. And he blames himself completely. That is the part that makes me the most sad. I know it's not true and I have even told him that. It is never the sole responsibility of one person.

I hope I will find my way back to him. Last night he was so genuine,kind, sad and vulnerable. I just looked at him and thought, "what is wrong with me? Why can't I move past/through this?" But if there is one thing that I do know, it is that all the therapy, books, Retrouvaille, and working on it, is not bringing me closer to him. I feel suffocated. I want him to let me go. I want to be able to choose him out of my own free will. That hasn't happened yet. I am hoping if I can free myself of him and really, truly let go, that I can choose to find my way back. Not because I have to, or out of fear, but because I want to.

25, thank you for weighing in. I am very sorry to hear about your brother and his cancer. This is some of the hardest stuff to deal with. I think I have mentioned before that I am an ICU/CVICU nurse and I work with death and dying a lot. I will never, ever forget at the lowest point in my separation (when H was with OW) this one day at work. We finally were able to remove the breathing tube on this sweet old man. After several minutes he found his voice and his first words were, "where is my wife?" ... I completely lost it .... I had to stave off another anxiety attack at work that day ...

Just typing this reminds me that I am still so traumatized from my sitch. The difference between now and a couple years ago, is that I am much more cerebral about it all. Partly, I am a stronger person because of it all, and partly I am no longer letting my emotions control my life. I'm done living that way. I want to heal my PTSD, I want to heal my wounds from before my M, and I cannot do that while focusing on him. Some of the things that have helped have been more fun with my GFs, running, eating better, and all the good literature by Perel, Brene Brown, etc, ... I digress ...

What would I like my life to look like? Oh gosh. That is the million dollar question. I don't know. Right now, it looks pretty darn good to an outsider. And in several ways it looks good to me. I am so grateful for my beautiful family, my friends NOW are the best women I could ask for, my home, my community, my job ... I don't feel that I am in a position to change that all. I don't want to physically break it apart. I feel that breaking it all apart is the wrong move and would be selfish. At this point I see us living as a family but I see my H as more of a person that I used to be in love with and that I hope one day I can be again, or even start by finding a friendship, but even all that doesn't describe it well.

Doodler, I am probably not gonna answer your question to your satisfaction, but I will try briefly. What do I get from OM? I would say there are two different things. First, there is friendship and what we have in common. Second, is the attraction, desire, danger, and excitement. I'll let you imagine the rest. The thing is, and mostly why I decided to post, is to emphasis the point that not all infidelity is entirely irrational. On these boards, and in other places, everyone wants to assume that there has to be this component of limerance, fog, addiction, MLC, etc, etc. I am sorry to tell all the LBS out there that that is simply not true. I think we convince ourselves of that (I know I did) so we don't have to face the simple reality that we are being rejected and our S is choosing someone else. That is more painful to accept. I can also say that my H and OM are entirely opposites in every way. I can't compare them and I wouldn't. They are just different. And my feelings for one have nothing to do with my feelings for the other. There is no emotional attachment to OM and in that sense there is a safety.

I wanted to respond to all of you--Coconut, Roist, AS, Sotto, Ginger, Own, Storm, and all of you--and say thank you so much for weighing in and your thought-provoking comments. I will certainly read them all again and keep thinking on this.

I don't make excuses for myself and I will be the first to admit that what I am doing is wrong by most standards. I also am in this place where I want to change, and in more ways than one. I have made several changes in the last few months--some good and some bad--but all of it feels safe right now and is helping me understand myself better. So that is my main goal as of now.

Blu
Posted By: doodler Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 11/16/17 06:51 AM
Originally Posted By: BluWave
I can't compare them and I wouldn't. They are just different. And my feelings for one have nothing to do with my feelings for the other. There is no emotional attachment to OM and in that sense there is a safety.


Blu,

I get it! And, thank you for responding. As an LBS it's nice to get that kind of feedback.

I'm sorry for what you're going through. It sounds as if, in many ways, it's more difficult than divorce. I hope you can sort things out and get back on firm footing regardless of the direction you take.

Something I recently read about that seems interesting, but I certainly don't know anything about it first-hand, is enhanced couples counseling (I'm euphemizing). I've read a lot about it, and if all the reports are true, then it may be a huge step forward for therapy. Anyway, I feel like I'm a street dealer for even mentioning this, but google "MDMA couples therapy."

Thanks again for your candor.
Posted By: EastTN Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 11/16/17 08:01 AM
You asked for non judgemental and Iíll respect that. Lord knows youíve e been through enough and have every right and reason to want out of your M.

I would suggest that you reread your posts and look at them through objective eyes, though. I only say this because thereís a distinct element of ďIím in control and can stop anytime I wantĒ in them.

By all means do what is in your best interests. But be honest with yourself while you do.
Blu, thank you for continuing to post and being so open and honest about your feelings. Yours is a very unique situation and perspective and it is a great learning experience reading your posts. Maybe some day you'll find your way back to your H much like Sandi did, but it could take a good, long while (and that's OK). You've been through so much and you've done a great job of explaining why you are where you are, and to be honest you've said nothing I can argue with. Your feelings are real and your reasons for them are perfectly legitimate. I wish you the best and hope you keep posting smile
Posted By: JRuss Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 11/16/17 09:45 AM
"I feel suffocated. I want him to let me go."

Have you told him you're cheating on him with another man? Because if not, that would be the sort of information that would seemingly make it a lot easier for him to do that.
Posted By: leahsue Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 11/16/17 10:40 AM
Wow, JRuss,

Before you throw those kinds of statements out there, do your homework. Go back and learn Blu's story, before you attempt to cut her a new one.

SHE IS NOT CHEATING. She is sincerely trying to help us all better understand LBS/WAS, and in her free time, she's fighting the URGE to cheat, and winning so far.

Your post really made me angry, so I am trying to be selective with my comments. I think everyone wants this site to be a safe place for everyone, so don't be snarky, especially when you're wrong.
Posted By: Coconut Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 11/16/17 01:48 PM
Originally Posted By: BluWave
all the therapy, books, Retrouvaille, and working on it, is not bringing me closer to him. I feel suffocated. I want him to let me go. I want to be able to choose him out of my own free will. That hasn't happened yet. I am hoping if I can free myself of him and really, truly let go, that I can choose to find my way back. Not because I have to, or out of fear, but because I want to.


I think there is a lot of power in this statement, it's often said that when the LBS comes here, the M is almost always already dead. Piecing is tough for many reasons, and I believe one of those reasons is because it's hard to build a NEW R with someone you're already M to.

I feel that the best way to start new is to separate first, grow as individuals and then rediscover each other in the future... But that's much easier said than done. There's so much drive to get them back, that it's hard to keep them away when they want to come back.

I think that regardless of what you decide to do Blu, that you and your H both gave it a real shot, and will likely be able to split and remain on good terms if it comes to that. But if you have any hope or desire to save your M, even if you see that in the future (after a seperation), I still believe having those feelings for another person now is a bad idea. I'm not trying to tell you what to do, just that doing it will divert your focus from yourself.
Posted By: Sotto Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 11/17/17 01:10 AM
Hi Blu, I was going to post in a similar vein, then read what Coconut posted and felt I couldn't really put it any better...

Given all circumstances, I could understand why you may not want to rebuild things with your H. As time has passed I became more relieved that my XH walked away and didn't come back, initiated and completed the D. I feel in many ways it would be easier for me to have a R with a new person..

But I think they key aspect is in the order of things. I'm 18 months out from D being finalised and that's a very different place to be. And a reasonable place to consider dating from.

I always value your posts and I hope you manage to work through everything in a way the brings you peace and joy in the much longer term.

Xxx
Posted By: lcause Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 11/17/17 02:42 AM
Originally Posted By: BluWave
Doodler, I am probably not gonna answer your question to your satisfaction, but I will try briefly. What do I get from OM? I would say there are two different things. First, there is friendship and what we have in common. Second, is the attraction, desire, danger, and excitement. I'll let you imagine the rest. The thing is, and mostly why I decided to post, is to emphasis the point that not all infidelity is entirely irrational. On these boards, and in other places, everyone wants to assume that there has to be this component of limerance, fog, addiction, MLC, etc, etc. I am sorry to tell all the LBS out there that that is simply not true. I think we convince ourselves of that (I know I did) so we don't have to face the simple reality that we are being rejected and our S is choosing someone else. That is more painful to accept. I can also say that my H and OM are entirely opposites in every way. I can't compare them and I wouldn't. They are just different. And my feelings for one have nothing to do with my feelings for the other. There is no emotional attachment to OM and in that sense there is a safety.


Are you sure you understand your feelings completely? I don't know, but to me you just defined what the fog and being limerant means yet you say there isn't those things. Do you seriously think those adjectives you listed would last in a relationship with this man? You didn't feel this way when you first met your H? Limerance is a fact, it's neuroscience. When you get infatuated with someone new, your neurotransmitters go haywire...

The fact is that relationships always have those feelings at the beginning, but in LTRs they eventually fade. Love is a choice, not a feeling. I am not saying the next person can't be a better partner, but to me your post sounded really underrating. You may understand your feelings and where they stem from but I could bet some money that most of the people do not, and it is easy to fall into the limerance trap or have GIGS. I mean statistics (lol) do say that a lot of people in affairs, and even divorcees, do regret their choices later on.
Posted By: JRuss Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 11/17/17 07:41 AM
Uh, Leahsue? I did read her posts. Did you? Yes, it's "cheating"; Blu herself called it "infidelity". There's no difference in the meaning of those words in this context, but one is considerably harder to spell (at least for me).

But let's be clear. I think you mistakenly believe that I care even a little about whether she's cheating or judge her for it. She can and should do whatever she wants, ESPECIALLY after what was done to her by her husband.

But if she wants him to back off (what she says in her most-recent post (that you think I didn't read)) -- or if maybe she wants simply to return their dynamic back to something approaching moral parity (because the current dynamic where he's in perpetual apology mode isn't working FOR HER and isn't ever going to, if reconciliation is the goal) -- she might consider telling her husband about what's going on. There's a chance it would make him cling harder and pursue more (what she says she doesn't want, in the post you think I didn't read), but I doubt it, since he's already clinging and smothering her.
Posted By: LH19 Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 11/17/17 08:14 AM
Originally Posted By: lcause
On these boards, and in other places, everyone wants to assume that there has to be this component of limerance, fog, addiction, MLC, etc, etc.

I have been saying this for months now, the LBS uses these terms to make excuses for the WW. "There has to be a reason they are doing this to me". In my opinion it's all BS.

People's feelings change over time. Plain and simple. Right or wrong.
Posted By: doodler Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 11/17/17 08:43 AM
Originally Posted By: LH19
People's feelings change over time. Plain and simple. Right or wrong.


LH19,

You're right. And, I'd like to point-out that there's a silver lining for the LBS. The LBS can be Secret Santa for their ex-spouse's new partner. This year, Secret Santa will be sending my XW's OM a fresh unopened tube of Vagisil. (He's a bit of a wuss.)
Posted By: lcause Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 11/17/17 08:54 AM
Originally Posted By: LH19
I have been saying this for months now, the LBS uses these terms to make excuses for the WW. "There has to be a reason they are doing this to me". In my opinion it's all BS.

People's feelings change over time. Plain and simple. Right or wrong.

No one is making excuses for anyone. I don't seek a reason either. Limerance/infatuation is real and it happens regardless of the current relationship status when you find another person. It's all about brain chemistry. New person will ALWAYS give those feelings at the beginning. It is hard to compete against that as an LBS. But those words used to describe it do not last. The ordinary life starts after a few years have gone by.
Posted By: Matrix Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 11/17/17 02:43 PM
Originally Posted By: BluWave

What do I get from OM? I would say there are two different things. First, there is friendship and what we have in common. Second, is the attraction, desire, danger, and excitement. I'll let you imagine the rest.


What part of any of this isn't the definition of an EA???

It is an affair. An EMOTIONAL AFFAIR.

Those words ARE limerance and getting foggier by the day.

This is exactly what your H felt for his OW when he went off the rails.

I am no judge or jury. I know you have been through hell and back with what your H did to you.

I agree with JRUSS, wholeheartedly. You might want to tell your H, so he knows that he has a choice to "let you go".

I must say with all honesty, Blu, the tone in your posts has changed dramatically. I get the sense we won't be hearing much from you anymore. That's too bad. You are one of the best posters on this forum. But as you drift further and further away, it would make sense that you don't want to hear any of this crap from us anymore.

I wish you the best.
Posted By: leahsue Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 11/17/17 04:22 PM
JRuss and Matrix,

Of course you both are entitled to your opinions, and I respect that, which is why I try to keep my words kind, to ANYONE on here, even if I disagree.

The reason I reacted so strongly to your post, J, was the biting, snarky way you put your opinion out there. You yourself just said above, that you could care less what Blu does..... maybe that's the difference. You don't care (your words) and I do.

Yes, I have read and followed, and posted, and supported Blu, and I will continue to do so, regardless of her life decisions, and whether I agree with them or not. But I hope I never come at ANYONE on this board with an attitude of unkindness.
Posted By: Sotto Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 11/17/17 10:56 PM
Hi Blu, I forgot to ask in my post yesterday - and apologies if I missed this along the way..but what are his circumstances?

Xx
Posted By: Melo Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 11/27/17 02:02 PM
Wow. Riveting and insightful Blu. I admire your bravery and honesty in telling us about the process by which you are falling for this other man. I think that you are right to follow your heart and I also think that part of the reason why the M hasn't worked is because your H hasn't fully let go of what he did to you, making the basis for the continuation of the M one of sadness. A tepid, forced relationship because it's the "right thing to do". Instead of owning what happened, forgiving yourself and moving forward in a positive direction, with positive energy. You have given me a world of insight into my own situation Blu. I thank you and I wish you the best.
Posted By: DonH Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 12/04/17 01:08 PM
Any updates Blu? It's been coming up on three weeks since we've heard from you. Hope you have not left or gotten scared away.
Posted By: Maika Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 12/04/17 03:40 PM
I second Don here. Your journey and insights have been extremely valuable. I also hope that recent events and the turns in your life and the reactions to it haven't caused you to leave for good. I hope you come back and share more.
Posted By: BluWave Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 12/14/17 11:44 AM
Hi everyone,

Thank you for checking on me. Needless to say, I do not visit here much these days. Partly because I am not currently wanting to save my M and also because I don't know how good it is for me. Coming here often keeps me in a negative thinking loop: this M is broken and I need to fix it. That does not draw me closer to my H, but perpetuates the stress and sadness. I also don't like the attitude that is so pervasive on these boards that the LBS is the victim and that the WAS/WAW is the perpetrator (the MLC, the alien, wayward, cheater, fog, selfish, "typical behavior," etc) and all the negative connotations and labels we put on them to demonize them. I would much rather understand and empathize, because my goal, whether I save my M or not, is to truly forgive my H.

Part of what has pushed me away from my M over the last couple years has been the "working on it" and those constant reminders that it is indeed broken. Even when we got towards the end of the Retrouvaille program, I found myself more and more thinking, "why are these couples still together?" Some of them outlined multiple types of abuse, however prided themselves on sticking it out. While I don't judge them for doing what is right for them, I did begin to question where my own bottom line is. My personal goal is not to save my M at all costs, but it is to want to save my M and love him for who he is, despite our hardships.

Also, when I read threads here, including my own, I feel that some of the posters are judgemental and preachy. I don't think that type of shaming really serves anyone in a positive way. In fact, I am reading a book on shame that has been insightful, and what I am getting from it is that those that shame others, do so because of their own personal feelings of fear and shame. One of the ways we can "shame proof" ourselves, is by understanding others and by being truly empathetic. So I hope that no one here feels that I have judged/shamed them, but that I have offered advice that is sound and helpful, even if buried in a 2by4. If not, I will be more mindful of doing so as I move forward. I hope others will as well. It is not our job to come here with our own moral compass and force others to follow it.

I don't have much to update, because as I said before, I am not in a space where I want to save my M. I have communicated this to my H over the last couple months. Things have been difficult at times. I also have freed myself up of the burden of having to constantly work on this M. I think for the first time I am really learning what it means to 180 and GAL, and I am starting to really enjoy that. I am starting to love doing things that I never thought I could before. I have less depression and anxiety, and I feel more clear headed. I keep hoping that if I can continue on this path, I will chose my H out of my own free will. I want to chose him from a place of strength and happiness, and not out of fear and desperation.

Unfortunately, when kids and finances are involved, things are not so simple. If we decide to physically separate, that will be a challenge and take a toll on all of us. That is the part that makes me the most sad. I know things cannot continue as they are right now, but I also am still not sure how they will look moving forward. Now that I am emotionally detaching from H, I am starting to see him in a different lens. He is wonderful actually. I wish that I could feel differently about him and I hope that I do one day.

In terms of OM, well as I think I said before, that does not have much significance to me. He was a reminder that I am still desirable, sexy and fun, and that attraction is not something that I have felt in a long while. We really can be attracted to others, we are all human. So it ran hot quickly, and then it ran cold even more rapidly, and that is okay. We really don't cross paths much anymore, but I consider him a friend, and maybe a guy I will always see as hot/exciting/unattainable? I dunno actually. I chalk it all up as a part of the learning. Now that I have let go of the death grip on my M, I am finally starting to learn valuable things about myself. For the one millionth time, I wish I had done this starting from BD! ... But it is never too late. I am not going to sit and dwell on my M anymore, I am going to live my life ...

I hope everyone has wonderful holidays! It is okay to put all the hard feelings, anger and sadness, on the back shelf for a bit and just enjoy a moment. Or few. And then more than a few.

Cheers,
Blu
Posted By: BluWave Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 12/14/17 11:48 AM
choose not chose. twice. sheesh!
Posted By: Henwen Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 12/14/17 03:26 PM
Well said. Thank you. I have been a shamer of my H in the past. But the last month I have truely started becoming more empathetic towards him and his situation. I am seeing my self for the valuable person I am now I too wish I had seen that earlier. I wish you the very best in your future.
Posted By: Maika Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 12/14/17 03:35 PM
Thanks for coming back Blu! Great to hear from you. I have some questions and maybe you can share some of your thoughts about it.

Is there something your H can do right now that would make you feel differently about the M in a positive light?

It sounds like you're really trying to come to a place of empathy for your H to forgive him, but do you see if that can lead to a path for you to be able to accept him and the past and salvage the M?

How has your H reacted to you being in this place where you're not sure about the M and its future?

Is there anything more your H can do to make amends for his past choices?

Thanks.
Posted By: leahsue Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 12/15/17 01:38 PM
Hi Blu,
So glad you updated. I think of you often.

Have a Merry Christmas smile
Posted By: BluWave Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 01/11/18 07:37 AM
Hi everyone,

Happy New Year. I hope that everyone can find more peace and contentment in 2018 than previous years. I was speaking with a lovely coworker about New Years' resolutions and she starts out each year with an intention instead. Her intention this year is "flourish," and I like this because the idea of an intention is less likely to set us up for failure. The way we think about things and the words we choose to describe them, certainly influence our life, even when we are unaware, don't they? I am still thinking about my intention for 2018. The one that I keep circling back to is "patience," however when I shared it with her, she didn't seem enthusiastic about it. I am going to keep thinking on it. I want an intention to live by this year.

Needless to say, I have not been on the boards much. I recall someone made a crappy comment about not expecting much from me anymore, and I'll tell you what, it is posters and comments like THAT that only further contribute to people not posting. So I am going to say right here and now, please do not post on my thread if you do not have something respectful, intelligent, or mindful to say. I don't have room for that in my life--not here, and not with the people I interact with IRL. Please and thank you.

I do check on some of my favs here and keep up with them and how they are doing. I think you guys know who you are by now :-) This is also the time of year that I work very long hours. And my GAL and 180s include going out more and doing more fun things. When I read here, I find myself getting triggered, keeping me in the past, or simply wasting hours I could be outside running. Sometimes I will pop over here and read from a new poster and think about how I would respond. Honestly tho, there is so much negativity and spouse bashing on these boards, that it feels counterproductive to me. I still read poster after poster focusing on everything their S is doing and essentially looking to blame them or call out on all their mistakes! Stop it, people! Even if you are right, and they are wrong, it doesn't serve you or saving the M to do this. Please read the mistakes that we (especially me) have made and try to learn from us!

Gah! It kinda drives me nuts! First of all, it goes against everything we should be learning here. Second, it keeps you in a negative tailspin of resentment and misery. Lastly, it will NOT bring them any closer to you, but will only push them further away. You have to actually wake up each morning and follow the rules. Posting here and complaining does not work. Sorry about it. Let them go, love yourself, and find happiness without them. It's okay to hope they will come back, but you can't bring them back by posting here and by being right.

I feel that I can confidently say all of this because I have now stood firmly on each side of the fence. If you have followed me, you know I suffered as much as any of you -- the full body 3rd degree burns, double betrayal, husband had the big dramatic A, left me with 3 kids for my "friend," while I was already suffering with the loss of a parent and a child in a mental health crisis. So yeah, I get it, I know the pain first hand. Now, however, several years have passed, and I am on the other side of the fence. My H came back and did all the "right stuff" and has changed.

However, now I question if I can remain in the M. I am also allowing myself to see him for who he is and not for who I always wanted him to be. I have taken a giant step back in the past several months and am reevaluating how I see my life. My H was a great DBer by nature, however the more I slip away, the worse he is at it. So like many of you, and like me back in the day, when you don't follow the rules, you push them away. When he is needy, focuses on me, and wants to keep having R talks, I feel suffocated and retreat. I get how this works, but I still can't help it. It's just not attractive. I am trying to give him the benefit of the doubt and be open-minded, but it's not easy. If he would give me more space and do more GAL and 180s of his own, I think I would feel more safe recommitting to him.

In the mean time, several strange things have happened lately, that have made me think he is a good partner for me in general. I am trying to let my choices outweigh my feelings if that makes sense. I have also had some men in my life treat me poorly (not seeing anyone or having an A, I mean interactions in general) that has made me realize that my H is a good man. It has been so strange how the universe (or whatever) has put this out there. I don't really want to get into the details here, it's ikcy and uncomfortable, but I am getting this sense that the grass may by plentiful, but not any greener.


More later. I am going to go about my day and my GALs. Hoping my intention word comes to me soon. Take care everyone!


Blu
Posted By: Subitai Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 01/11/18 07:57 AM
Blu,

Wow, you have been through a lot! Is there any way to get through to him on the DB'ing? That you need space to consider? It seems like you view the M in a positive manner intellectually, but emotionally you are in a different space. Has he read the DB/DR books? It seems like he's in the desperate first stages still, and I think we can all understand why. He needs to understand why you need space. My think you guys are alike a perturbed pendulum. You swung all the way out on his affair, and now you're past the middle and swinging out on your side in reaction. It will take work and time to get back to 'at rest'. But perhaps you're not like that, and you living through the loss and return has made you realize you don't want what was lost anymore at all, and you're only feeling like you SHOULD want it. Or possibly, you just need some separation and space for yourself (db'ing) so that you can properly value and re-evaluate what has been regained.

I hope things settle for you in a way that makes sense and brings you peace.
Posted By: doodler Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 01/11/18 08:05 AM
Blu,

How about "preternaturally."

Preternaturally - Surpassing what is normal or usual; extraordinary.
Posted By: OwnIt Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 01/11/18 08:14 AM
Blu,

You seem very raw. It's understandable. In general real is good. Turning things around and viewing them from different angles helps. In view of where you have been, it is understandable that you would relate more to a walkaway mentality than you did before, and that is helpful information for everyone here.

I guess I just caution you to avoid some of the same traps you see in others. People come here from a certain perspective. Lets face it. The folks on the other side are in the minority, but their views are especially valued by others (sandi and now artista for example). However, often when we feel judged, it is because it is we who are judging ourselves. Just think about whether there could be some of that going on.

People come here because they are hurt. They come here to vent. If they are spouse bashing, its probably something that needs to happen for healing. I've done it. Sometimes I hate mine, and sometimes I feel really, really bad for him.

I think everyone here cares about you and the feelings you are expressing are good for everyone to hear and consider. I hope that you feel safe enough to come back and let us continue to learn from your experiences.
Posted By: Coly23 Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 01/11/18 08:28 AM
Blu, just stopping by to say hi!

I agree a bit with Ownit. I've vented on here about my H but only because this is a safe place to do it. Obviously there are those who go a bit too far but on the whole I think we all understand the pain we are all going through.

I am so pleased that you are seeing that your H is a good man. Maybe this is all part of the process and you needed to feel like you could give it all up to realise that you really didn't want to.

(((Blu)))
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 01/11/18 09:00 AM
Quote:
In the mean time, several strange things have happened lately, that have made me think he is a good partner for me in general.


I learned from my A that the OM may have had strengths my H lacked, but so did my H have strengths the OM lacked. Sometimes, you have to look closely to see if you are just trading one set of problems for another set that's going to make you miserable.

The possibility of a new relationship seems fresh and exciting. There is no painful history with a new person. For some reason, we see a new relationship being easier, and perhaps in some cases it is. I've seen it happen. And I've also seen women bitterly disappointed after they've had time to learn and experience more "truth" with the new person.

I will forever be grateful that my eyes were beginning to see things in the OM, although I wanted to be in denial. It was the preparation for what was to come for me.

Blu, I felt you were probably a little hurt by something that was previously said to you. I think the first person who ever replied to me said something pretty negative about me. That's to be expected when the board's population is mostly hurting LBS's. For a moment, you became a target for their bitterness.

Actually, I have been extremely blessed that I haven't had very many negative posts directed at my character. Maybe the difference is that I went from a WW to reconciling with my H. For all I know, someone may have thought you were worse for trying to stick it out for so long.....and then having a change of heart. Who knows? They may have been having a bad day and took it out on you. No excuse, just saying....

Personally, I don't expect you to be as involved in posting, especially if you feel it has no benefits for you. Those on the board need to feel they are receiving or giving something. I think the people who feel emotionally invested in you, would like to hear from you occasionally. We become bonded in a special way on the board, IMHO. There are a lot of people I would love to hear how they are doing now, but they never post anymore. Oh well, maybe I have spent too much time, as well. smile

Thanks for dropping in and letting us know how you are doing. You have been a favorite around here.

((hugs))
Good to hear from you BLu, glad you dropped back by! I hope your 2018 is an awesome one smile
Posted By: artista Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 01/11/18 09:19 AM
good afternoon, BluWave... i remember the crappy comment you are referring to... i gather that person meant that you seemed to be moving on--which most posters eventually do--and that saddened him because he does value your input and would miss your contribution...

i like the idea of choosing an intention for the year... i have never been keen on making New Year resolutions, but i do like the idea of being resolved about things that come across, things that i need to pay attention to, in my life... because i can be wishy-washy... i loathe having to make decisions... perhaps i should intend to live my life more deliberately...

from our good friend Henry David Thoreau in Walden: or Life In The Woods--

"I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived."

--artisita
Posted By: Vanilla Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 01/11/18 11:25 AM
Regretfully not everyone agrees with what we have to say.

Some are quite rude and others plain objectionable. Over time I have come in for quite a bit of flack. To the point on one occasion I decided to go forever. However I came to the conclusion that these were a challenge and my skin got thicker.

Please don't let injudicious remarks put you off being you. You have much that's valuable to say from your view point. You have that right and it's great.

Otherwise it is inauthentic.

I like you just the way you are, like the rest of us, mixed bag of everything.

V
Posted By: Natural Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 01/12/18 02:46 PM
BluWave -

On the intention -- I see an intention as a possibility, and perhaps a way of being. Of course, there is nothing wrong with patience. It might matter not whether your intention lights up the person you share it with, but rather whether it lights you up, or lights up your soul, or the future you're living into.

Certainly, in the midst of marital uncertainty, patience is a virtue.

If you're search for similar, but more fitting intention, you might also consider what's behind patience. If you are patient, what else is present? Peace? Tranquility? Contentment? ...

Have a great year!
Posted By: BluWave Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 01/15/18 05:27 AM
Well, I wanted to come here and address several of your posts, but something has changed. With a very heavy heart, and many tears, I must say goodbye. At least for now. My H found my thread and has been reading it. Perhaps he has been reading all along? I don't know, but I feel vulnerable and completely betrayed by him. Again.

I started posting after he came back. I never told him about the book, the name of the site or my username, and I asked him to please respect that I am a part of a private and supportive community. I used private browsers and I deleted my history. I must have slipped up somewhere along the way. I have naively been opening up here, as if he would respect that privacy, and I realize that was foolish of me. This is not the first time he has snooped and I am starting to question if I have been giving him far too much credit overall. There have been many times he he has done this, including while he was with OW.

I am not sure if I am writing this to all of you or to him right now. He says he will no longer read it, but I don't believe him. I feel as if he has taken my diary and can access all of my private thoughts. I feel like I just found out a neighbor has been looking through my windows. Did he see my yell at my kids? Did he see my naked? I just have this awful pit in my stomach.

I have been crafting this long list of reasons this M is dead and it's time to move on. I have been doing that for some time now. I actually came up with this list in my mind of all the reasons to leave. Right now though, I just don't feel safe. I feel uneasy and nervous. I have this sick feeling in my stomach like I did when he was gone. He spent the night at his parent's last night, but this time, he took my privacy with him ...

I am not going to list out for you why this M is dead. In fact, there are several things I have not shared with you about him. I wanted to be able to accept these things and these were things I knew about him before the M fell apart. But what is it I have been saying to you all along??? Let them go. Don't focus on them. Focus on you. I know that I too have made a lot of mistakes and need to improve!

The difference now, if we do split, is that I am not afraid to be alone. I don't need him to be okay. Yes, things will be hard. This will mostly be very hard on our kids and our finances. But hard on me? I don't know about that. This feeling right now, of not having privacy and feeling nervous and untrusting, seems far worse than being alone. If there is one thing this community has taught me, it is that I will be just fine. I am stronger than I know.

And to all of you that want to bash your S and focus on them, I am sorry I said that and I will not judge you. Bash away. I feel like that too sometimes. I feel like that right now actually! But we must all reach a point where we value ourselves more than that. We must put our own needs, wants, desires, and integrity first. We must be our own pillar of strength and love if we want to offer it to others. I think I am getting better at that.

And we must have patience--patience with ourselves and others. So even if my coworker doesn't love my intention, it is mine. So I am going with it. I am going to try and have more patience with this process and more patience with my life. I know I have the power to make a lot of things happen, but do they always feel like the right things in the aftermath? Sometimes we just need to exercise patience and let life unfold as it should. Or as it will.

I am so overwhelmed with emotions right now, but I don't think they will serve me. I am not going to sit and dwell on what was or what should be. I am going to dust myself off and go about my day. I am going to let patience into the drivers seat and put the rest away for just now. I know I have made a lot of mistakes too. I hope to learn from them. I am going to start today by not making those mistakes and then tomorrow I will try again. I think that's all I can do.

So goodbye friends. I hope this isn't goodbye forever. You all have given me so, so much. You guys believed in me, you trusted me, and I have learned so much about myself, the good and the ugly. ... and if you want to leave a message for my H here, or maybe a middle finger, be my guest!

Much love and patience to all in 2018,
Blu
I can't say what your H's motivation is, but I know when I snooped on my W after BD it was because I was trying to find answers and gain some insight. I can completely understand why you feel violated, it is a breach of trust. But ashamedly I admit I could see myself having done the same just to try and understand what my XW was thinking and going through.

Your journaling has been insightful because 1) it has helped me to understand what my XW may have been thinking and feeling and 2) I went through some of the same experiences as you as far as fighting for my M initially and then later questioning what I was fighting for and if it was worth it. I hope you can find your way back here under a more anonymous handle so you can continue giving counseling to others, but regardless I wish you the best in whatever you do!
Posted By: artista Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 01/15/18 07:38 AM
Awww, BluWave, I am so sorry... I understand that nervousness... the uneasy, unsafe feeling... you are good... You have been introspective and have done the hard work, and you continue to do the work, even though it is difficult, uncomfortable... Most people would have stopped and said, "good enough," once reconciliation started... But your contuing your personal growth says so much about you... You have chosen the road less traveled... And you will find, along with our good friend Robert Frost, that it has, indeed, made all the difference...

Adelante--

--artista
Posted By: Maika Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 01/15/18 08:05 AM
Sorry to see you go Blu! Thank you for sharing with us what you could share and I have learned immensely from your insights. You have a great way with words.

I am sorry that your situation has taken this turn. I wish you all the best. I will leave you with one of my most favorite poem verses that gets me through every day right now - I am translating it into English as best as I can.

Make your 'Self'
So Resilient and Strong
That before Fate Comes Knocking
The Creator will Ask You
"Tell Me; What is is That You Desire?"
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 01/15/18 08:45 AM
Perhaps reading your posts actually helped him to piece? Reading your posts as though an observer, may have made some type of break through with him. IDK, and I realize you feel your privacy has been violated.

If this had happened before you had grown so dissatisfied with the piecing, and before the flirty interaction with the OM started.....would H's snooping have been the deciding factor to leaving the MR? Only you can answer that question, and if you already have a list of reasons why things wouldn't get better.....well, only you can make a decision what is best for Blu. Maybe this is the straw that broke the camel's back.

When you discovered your H had read your posts, did it hurt your pride for him to have access to see what you had said about him, describing your pain, etc.? When I think of someone reading my diary, I think of being embarrassed that they could read my most private thoughts. When I first joined the board, my H found my threads.....and I was still a WW, trying to decide what to do. Under the circumstances, however, I didn't feel there was much I could say.

I wish you health and happiness, Blu. Most of all, I wish you peace.

((hugs))
Posted By: Coly23 Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 01/15/18 09:14 AM
(((Blu)), if you do read this I wanted to thank you for all your help and advice. You helped pull me out if some very deep, dark pits.

I am sorry your H had not respected your privacy but I really do hope that you can both get through this.

Take care. Xx
Posted By: JujuB Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 01/15/18 10:26 AM
I am so sorry. I can only imagine how invaded you must feel. I wrote on here because i felt a strong need to express myself to others that understand and are undergoing similar experiences but in a completely anonymous platform.

That being said, if my ex was ever posting about our marriage on a public forum I would definitly read. I would want to understand better, since we were never able to communicate any other way.

I realized a while ago that my ex would have had absolutly no interest in reading my posts, as I gladly would have openly communicated them. He just would never have wanted to waste his time on understanding me. I can confidently state that.
Posted By: Coconut Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 01/15/18 11:56 AM
Blu, I want to first say that I'm glad to have met you here. You have a way of expressing yourself through words that resonated with me, and I was always routing for you.

However, you've changed, I see in you similarities to my ex after the ILYBNILWY speech.. I will again say, it doesn't matter to me if you hurt your cheating spouse, but I feel like you've changed.

If you were honestly giving 100% to your M, I can't imagine there is much that you've said here that you haven't said to your spouse, but if there was, then I wonder if you were really trying to reconnect.

I wish the best for you, whatever that means for you.
Posted By: JujuB Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 01/15/18 03:33 PM
Blu

While i do not post often, i have kept up with all of your threads and have always appreciated your honesty and insight.

To be honest, i am a bit upset at some of the posters that have been making innuendos that you are like some of the walkaway females that are written about om these boards. The ones that lie and cheat amd leave their kids.

I dont know if it is sexism at play...you are supposed to be the good girl, true and faithful amd forgiving after having been put through a quite hellish betrayal. Or if people have just become way too black and white in their views of marriage..save it at all costs.

I am a supporter of marriage but my boundary has always been an affair. You wrote similar in your old posts. Despite this boundary, you opened yourself up to piecing and reconciliation. Just the fact that you were open to something you were so against shows you gave it youre all.

Its not just the affair. Its the gaslighting and cruelty that goes along with it. Its damaging in so many ways.

Whatever you decide, its youre journey. And i truly wish the best for you.
Posted By: Wonka Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 01/15/18 03:42 PM
Mr. BluWave,

I am going not going to dance around here. I'll get right to the point here:

You are a f*cking idiot to read Blu's threads and YET still walk away from a true, genuine gem. It is your loss. You'll spend the rest of your life kicking your own ass for walking out on Blu.

You don't deserve her after all she's been through for you, the M, and the family!! Such a graceful soul who's walked through the fire for you and this is what she gets in return from you??!!! Blu will find another man who will treat her with love, honor, and utmost RESPECT that you're seriously lacking in your own department.
Posted By: Wonka Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 01/15/18 03:44 PM
((((Blu)))

I am firmly in your Blu corner all the way, baby! Hold your head up HIGH...nothing to hang your head here. I am super proud of you and your own journey.

Chin up, sweetie. You're a very strong person and you shall overcome with strength and dignity.
Posted By: Anchor Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 01/16/18 12:52 AM
Lovely Blu...

Sorry to hear about this - I understand about this place being like a diary to get things off our chests, and the feeling of violation.. I must say I agree with Anotherstander. If your H didn't care, he wouldn't snoop. He's snooping because he's trying to figure out why, how, what. I snoop for that reason. I don't know if you did when he was a WH.

In any case, best of luck with the journey ahead - don't stay away too long, hopefully.

Take care of yourself
Posted By: Coconut Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 01/16/18 01:18 AM
Originally Posted By: Coconut

However, you've changed, I see in you similarities to my ex after the ILYBNILWY speech.. I will again say, it doesn't matter to me if you hurt your cheating spouse, but I feel like you've changed.



I wish there was an edit function on this forum, because reading this today, I don't feel like this came across as I meant it.

When I said you've changed and I see similarities to the changes I saw in my ex, I am not meaning to say you are wayward and act like it. What I've felt when reading your last few posts is that your heart has hardened. Personally, I think that is a good thing for a LBS who wants to move on, because no matter how much pain the WS caused, there are still memories of the good times which causes pain when considering moving on. With a WS, I think that hardening comes as a way to keep the guilt out, but unfortunately affects more than just the relationship with their LBS. More than anything, I hope your R with the rest of your family has not been affected, and if it hasn't, then I couldn't be happier for you Blu.


Originally Posted By: Coconut
If you were honestly giving 100% to your M, I can't imagine there is much that you've said here that you haven't said to your spouse, but if there was, then I wonder if you were really trying to reconnect.

Ouch, I definitely came across as an a-hole here.. when I read what your husband did, it resonated with me regarding my ex. One of the regrets I can't get out of my head is that after BD, my ex never once had a conversation with me to share how she felt (remember, never ONCE in my entire M did my ex ever say she was unhappy about anything, never a single comment to tell me what she didn't like or what was missing for her in our M).

The only insight I had to how she was feeling was when I put a Voice Recorder in her car for 3 days, when she was talking about how she felt to OM and to one of her friends. I hate that others probably assume that we talked, and that we were not able to work things out in our M. I too would find it unbelievable that someone else's M ended without any conversation about what would be needed to try and save it. So I lashed out with the thought that you walk away without your H having known what could be done to stay together.

But I know that's not what happened. You've shared with us what you have done, the pain you've processed, the conversations you've had, the programs you've gone through just to increase communication between the two of you. I apologize for saying it the way I did.
Posted By: BluWave Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 01/16/18 07:43 AM
Deep breath ... I changed my mind. I am not going to say "goodbye." If he decides to read here, even after I have asked him again not to, then that is his choice. We must all make our own choices and then we must live with how we feel about those choices. I too am living with some choices that I do not feel good about. I think we learn more through those natural consequences and less through other people telling us we are wrong. I do have a feeling though that he will not read here. I also recognize that people can change.

I almost stopped posting after I first joined, when I realized that my H's XOW's XH could be reading here too, but that didn't stop me then, and neither will this stop me now. I now write for all of you, and for both of them. Hello everyone. Thank you for the attention, really, on some weird level, I am actually flattered. That is my perspective now (shrug). Plus, now I can include more details because my anonymity has gone right out the window!

I felt so sad and anxious yesterday typing that good-bye letter, and then later I realized that by doing that, I am still allowing this (and him) to control me and that is not healthy! That is not me anymore. I started to feel that sick, scared feeling and it reminded me of who I was when he left me. I will never be that woman again, she is no longer ...

So as I write from now on, I will do so with the mindfulness that anyone could be reading. Anyone. But I am still going to be myself because clearly, you guys like me the way I am. I like me the way I am. He likes me for the way I am. If you don't babe, you know you can leave at any moment and I will not hold you back. I will never again beg, yell, reduce myself to needing you to be okay. I am not the same woman that you walked out on a few years ago. I think you know that. And thank you for helping me see myself more clearly these last few years. I didn't feel good about myself then in the way I do now, and I think I only changed because you broke my heart and pulled the rug out from under my life. So F-you AND thank you for that :-)

Okay, now that we have our housekeeping aside, let me get to the good stuff. Thank you all for replying. You guys are great. I mean it when I say that I have learned so much about myself here, not just by your comments and questions, but also by reading your stories and struggles. So thank you.

I had a bad night when he slept at his parents, and it turned out he had an even worse night. It was an unsettling jolt into the past, a place we both do not want to be. We both want this to work. But we also realize that what we have been doing is not working. I am not sure what the best path is now, but I am going to have more patience with however it will go. I had this moment last night when I realized that my H continues to stick by me no matter what, and since he has been back, I have lied, pushed him away, and not been a good W. He still believes in me and in us. I think there is something to be said about that. He said again how much he regrets what he did, how sorry he is, and how much he wishes it never happened. I do believe him.

You know it's interesting because words are powerful, and we can say things with an intention, and we can not say things with more of an intention. You guys all had such different reactions to my post. I read every reply, and you know what? You were all right. All of you.

It was wrong for him to snoop and for the many times he has snooped he has been wrong. He has also snooped because in his gut he has felt something was wrong. Haven't I always said that we should trust our own intuition more than anything? And he has been right in that he has found things. He read here that I have been getting attention from other men (yes, not man, but men) and that is something I had not been honest about, not with him and not with all of you. I was getting attention. And I liked it. So yes AS, you were right. And yes C-nut, you were right too. While I am not like your XW in some ways, I also felt myself changing. Blu got her groove back and maybe started having a little too much fun.

There is also another thing that I have not been honest about in the last few years. I developed some unhealthy habits with substance abuse when H left. What started off as prescriptions with just sleep and to cope with severe anxiety and depression, soon became things that were not meant for me and not good for me. This continued well past the time H came back. And he caught me. And I lied. And he caught me again. So while H has broken my trust, I recognize that I have broken his too. ... I also have come to recognize how fortunate I am to not be an addict and to be able to simply make better choices on my own. I am a nurse and have it in my hands every day, and I am so grateful to easily turn it away and to not compromise my life or my job. I know others have not been able to.

The thing is, two wrongs--and two dishonest people--don't make a right. He is not justified in his behavior and nor am I. Something hit me (again) in the last couple days and that is that we really cannot control anyone else, but we really really CAN control ourselves. Like I said in my first paragraph, we all must make our own choices and then we all must live with how we feel about them. I don't like some of the choices I have been making. It is not just because I was caught or because it is wrong, but they are not things that I feel good about or proud of. I want to feel good about my choices and the natural consequences of them. And I just can't ignore the fact that I have this man here that still loves me and sticks by me even when I screw up or convince all of you that I am right.

This is far too much drama for one day. Even for me. I am gonna go and clean my house, deal with some sick kids, and then hit the climbing gym.

Confessional is over. And no more goodbyes. Not for now!

Blu
Posted By: doodler Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 01/16/18 07:52 AM

But wait! How do we know that Blu's husband didn't hack into her account and write that post?
Posted By: Cadet Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 01/16/18 08:36 AM
Originally Posted By: doodler

But wait! How do we know that Blu's husband didn't hack into her account and write that post?


Because he would not want to clean the house, as she wrote.
Posted By: Sotto Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 01/16/18 08:55 AM
Welcome back Blu :)x
Posted By: TBSakaJ9 Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 01/16/18 10:36 AM
Blu....I have always enjoyed how you express yourself and it sounds like you and your H are finally being 100% honest with each other. Hopefully both of you will be able to move forward and build a even better marriage. It is really apparent to me that you both love each other very much. Glad you came back! smile
Posted By: Coconut Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 01/19/18 01:29 AM
Blu, how are you doing? Your previous post was full of emotion so I would imagine your spinning a little. I hope you'll use this place as a "safe" outlet to vent, but with the amount of IRL people that know your SN, I imagine that you will never be able to write anything without thinking that someone you know is going to read this. I think that will really limit your ability to speak freely and that is unfortunate.

Are you currently seeing an IC? If not, you may want to consider it to have someone really help you process everything that is going on with you and in your life.
Posted By: BluWave Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 01/19/18 03:00 PM
Um, I hate to admit THIS, but when it comes to housekeeping, errands, and kid stuff, Mr Blu does as much as I do. One thing I cannot complain about.

Thank you, Sotto & J9. The sentiments are mutual.

C-Nut. I feel okay actually. I've just been busy at work this week; we have a lot of flu going around right now, so lots of sick patients, and I think I have a strain of something myself.

I feel okay about my sitch too actually. I have not been emotional lately. When H read here last weekend and then let me know, things blew up, and I felt myself falling back into old patterns of reacting to triggers, fear, anxiety, etc. However soon after, I checked myself and I let that all go. I am not going to let emotions control me anymore. So no, not spinning, not anymore. I think that has been my greatest improvement in the last few years: I am more able to compartmentalize things. I feel stronger than I have in a long time. My issue now is that I find myself wanting to retreat from him when things get uncomfortable.

I have seen ICs several times in my life and it has only helped intermittently, but never consistently. What I think helps me the most, is shifting my perspective on things, time passing, and developing more healthy habits/reactions (180s) and engaging in more healthy activities/relationships (GAL). I say healthy, because I recognize that several of my choices and coping mechs have not been good. Also, while I love going to the spa or pub with my girlfriends, I need real physical activity for my mental health and my physical health. So in theory, for me to be able to 180 well, my GAL choices are key, not just numbing myself ...

Last summer I started running and more recently I have been checking out different forms of exercise, especially things that are mentally challenging. Recently these have been (indoor) rock climbing and roller derby. I am also planning to get on a surf board this year. When I am in good physical shape, I overall feel better. Plus I am turning 40 soon, soooooo ..... that has been weighing on me. Sure, age is just a number, but I had a kid at 20 and then soon after was a single mom going back to college, so I feel like I missed out on something in my 20s that I now want to find.

I think all of the counseling, MC, Retrouvaille, and "working on things," is part of what ultimately pushed me away from my M last summer. It becomes this exhausting and emotional task that for me was leading to increasing dread. It did not draw me closer to H, but started to lead to me wanting to avoid the painful loop/reminders. So something shifted in me and I felt myself distancing more and more. I told him I wanted separation, I stopped working on things and engaging with him, took my rings off, and started focusing on me and what I wanted. I started to imagine a life without him, but I think I was also being selfish. I started to realize that while I would be okay without him, there are still things about him that I love -- we have 17 years, a family, and a home -- and he is a good fit, we are compatible.

Since last weekend, I have felt a shift towards him, but also still find myself wanting to retreat if he wants to R talk or things get difficult. I am recommitting and he is being open and loving, and more so than before it seems. I think he felt he was losing me and that scared him. He has let his guard down. I want to try and move forward, but in a different and more natural way this time. I can't keep talking about the past and the same problems!

I don't have all the answers. But I am not worried about that. I have patience on my side now.

Blu
Posted By: artista Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 01/19/18 03:47 PM
You sound well, Blu... As a WW, during the early days of piecing, I carried heavy guilt... My H didn't put it on me... He was kind to me... But I felt awful and sorry and even undeserving... I walked on eggshells and was hypersensitive to anything that came up regarding infidelity... Whether in a movie or song... We both like The Eagles music... In the past whenever Lying Eyes came on, we could sing along... But when we first started piecing, I could not listen to it in front of him...

Eventually, I had to get past carrying around the burden of guilt... We worked through that in MC... He didn't want me to go through the rest of our lives together beating up myself... As time goes on, almost 3 years since reconciliation, the crime is further and further away... But it is not belittled with time, just not as near... And so I am lighter...

And I can finally look ahead... We could not do that for a while... We could only see the past and the present... But now, yes, we look ahead authentically... Not just in words... I hope this makes sense...

--adelante
Posted By: Vanilla Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 01/20/18 04:51 AM
Blu

Glad you are still here.

The G and the BIT both read my threads. I had to cease posting during the trial period. I accept this is a public forum and they have that right, as such I have no expectation of privacy here. I have truly been authentic, no sugar coating, my dark times are documented as well as my journey. Therefore I have no fear that what I wrote at the time I wrote it were my thoughts and my feelings at that time, at that point. In Real Time that's how I believed and felt, as you read the threads then I hope there is evident growth and personal development expressed. My views changed developed and grew. Thank goodness! And they will again no doubt. Because DB is about me and those I truly love and who love me. Just as DB is about you, what you say think write and journal here is you as you are now. That is almost 100% you today but maybe not tomorrow and most surely not about yesterday.

Firstly I didn't post for a while because I didnt want to spoil any tactics of my L in what is a high conflict D. And secondly because I was quite confused on things.

It is my personal philosophy to (as far as I can) be authentically V. I sense that's you as you discuss your sitch quite openly. If you have an agreement with H he shouldn't be reading this then of course him doing so is a breach of your trust. It's a boundary that needs resetting, although I understand why he has. Insecurity drives him. He loves you and seems truly sorry. Probably feeling insecure too. I get it and living with uncertainty often drives people to do things that seek security. It's a basic need, often we would rather D than be uncertain. They say there are 6 basic human needs which drive behaviour and we all operate through one or more of them. Tony Robbins uses the need driven behaviour dynamic based on Maslow. I digress.

I had to read your threads again, because (I apologise) I thought you were already a WAW. Juju corrected me on it and I thank her. My mistake. So I am glad I haven't put my foot more in my mouth than I already have.

My next post on your thread (not this post) will be intended for your H.

It is always my contention that the LBS is the one who decides the M is over. Always that they are done with that M.

You may be headed for M v3 with your H.

Indeed I think you feel insecure too, and that leads to lack of attraction. New Blu needs a different sort of M and R.

It is appropriate to know you are attracted to other men, your H in his WH phase maybe hasn't atoned to you in a way that you need him too. In 12 steps we see this over and over lack of appropriate atonement. One of the steps in growth and healing is to atone, not just reset or apologise. Atonement isn't punishment, those who atone do so willingly because it moves them forward and may help to make good. The deed is done, it can never be undone but it can be atoned.

Atoning must be done in the way that the other wants it, not in the way we wish to atone. And if they don't want atonement from us then we still atone in a way that fits that.

Let me now talk about forgiveness. My stance on it fits with Jeane Safer that is somethings are unforgiveable and forgiveness is a choice. You do not have to forgive. Further forgiveness can never be given to those who don't seek it AND atone. And even if they do, then atonement must be in a way that is for you the one on the receiving end of the atonement. I don't think you need to accept another atoning to let go of resentment. Nor do you have to forgive unless forgiveness is sought. I believe that it isn't my job to judge or to forgive, these matters are between the G and his higher power, it's his soul in jeopardy not mine. And lack of forgiveness doesn't mean you can't go forward with R either, but I think lack of appropriate atoning is poison.

Let me now say what I think on love and trust, you can do either or both. I have those I trust but do not love. I have those I love but do not trust. Both are a choice. You can trust in one area but not another. It isn't an absolute, you may trust the other with a child and to parent, but not with fins. You may trust them to care for you but not to cheat. These are your feelings and you can have them and I believe you have the right to those feelings. Irrespective of whether the other is worthy of trust or not. This is about you. Once another crosses a boundary, cheating say, you may never entirely trust in that area again. It's ok.

Let's talk about earning trust. Fundamentally another can't work to earn your trust, this is intolerable to me. It's an egg shell burden, and can be punishment, in many cases passive aggressive. So saying 'I can never earn your trust back' deserves a response of 'my trust is my business' and the need to be earning trust implies power and control both ways. The G once said I must trust him! The answer is none of your business.......

Instead it is atonement, once the atoning is done in the right way then that's enough, more is punishing. And both can let go of the need to more.

As to attraction for your H once a WH that need not be fixed, you can be attracted to this and not to that. From where I sit you are both growing and that's excellent. Honesty will clean open sores.

Those are my thoughts Blu.

V
Posted By: Vanilla Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 01/20/18 05:05 AM
Mr Blu

Infidelity is a breach of trust. Trust is something that is given by choice by Blu. It isn't yours to earn.

If you have agreed to respect Blu privacy here then that too is a breach of trust. So renegotiate.

This is a no brainerbrainer isn't it? breaching trust in a new and different area is causing more doubt. Anger is a clear indication a fundamental barrier is breached.

If you wish to heal and repair and build a new M, then realise breaches of trust are creating serious issues.

When we breach another's boundaries, we have no rights over their anger. And trying to control their ability to be angry and disgusted with our breach is yet another breach!

They have the right to be angry at such breaches. Of course we are also angry or hurt from what we learn. It triggers insecurity too which creates behaviour and further damage.

They have the right to not trust in an area where you have breached trust. They have the right to not forgive you ever in that area. That's their right. It can not be controlled.

All you have is control over yourself, it's a big job. There is you, Blu and your M. It is Blu turn to heal.

Relax, stop! Grow and have help with the need to control and discuss ways to atone to yourself, Blu and your M.

I suspect you know this already and I trust are atoning in ways that Blu needs you to atone for her, in ways you need to atone for you.

If you agree not to read here, then don't do it, it is yet another breach of trust.

Just saying

V
Posted By: BluWave Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 02/12/18 11:06 AM
Hi everyone,

I saw SH here and that inspired me to post. I don't read here and post often anymore. I will try and keep some consistency in my updates. Things are going well for me, my M, and for my family. I feel very grateful for where I am at.

For the first time in a long while, life just feels normal. My M is different now, and in most ways better than it has been in years. There is only so much working on things and processing one can do. I think it got to a point where it was keeping me held back and the painful reminders outweighed whatever positive relationship we were building, which wasn't much.

I don't worry about him reading here. He said he wouln't and I believe him. I trust him. It was ultimately a choice. The trust I mean. And if he chooses to break that, then that will be his choice. We are all free to make choices out of our own free will.

I have "worked" on this forgiveness and trust for so long (and yes they are related for me) -- read the books, the therapy, the M programs, the soul searching, etc -- but at the end of the day it is a choice. He is also showing me a person now that I like and want to be with. We fell into this unhealthy dynamic of me being the victim and him the perpetrator, and it wasn't healthy.

Perhaps him losing me was what motivated his change? Things are just different now. He knows what he wants and he goes for it. He is more confident and assertive. He is attentive, affectionate, and he is open with his thoughts and feelings. This is now coming from a place of strength and not fear. I like this change. Instead of drowning in guilt, he is fighting for what he wants.

So I am looking forward now. We enjoy each others company, we have fun, we laugh, and we are closer. We are planning several new things and trips this year, so there is much to look forward to. The more we move forward, the more he sees how delusional he was before. He can't even identify with the person he was that caused such destruction.

My Ds are doing well too. My oldest is working and has now enrolled herself in college. This was a kid I almost lost entirely, when everything in my world was crumbling around us. My younger girls are doing great too. Our family is thriving again. So life is positive and I won't take that for granted.

Blu
Posted By: Vanilla Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 02/13/18 12:30 AM
Blu it is lovely to hear from you.

And would love to know your lessons learned.

V
Posted By: artista Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 02/13/18 09:18 AM
Originally Posted By: BluWave


Perhaps him losing me was what motivated his change? Things are just different now. He knows what he wants and he goes for it. He is more confident and assertive. He is attentive, affectionate, and he is open with his thoughts and feelings. This is now coming from a place of strength and not fear. I like this change. Instead of drowning in guilt, he is fighting for what he wants.

So I am looking forward now. We enjoy each others company, we have fun, we laugh, and we are closer. We are planning several new things and trips this year, so there is much to look forward to. The more we move forward, the more he sees how delusional he was before. He can't even identify with the person he was that caused such destruction.


as a former WW, it took me a while to get to this stage, but it was necessary... i had to come to realize that it was quite right to reach this stage... otherwise, you get to a place where you are exhibiting false self-deprecation... false humility... the bible likens it to those who would throw dust and dirt on themselves to make themselves look sickly or weak to show how much they had sacrificed through fasting--to look more religious...

i learned that i must receive the grace that had been shown me... i needed to stop rejecting it as though i were unworthy, because--truth be told--i was unworthy... but that is what grace is about... making a way for those who cannot do it on their own... extending a hand to those who are unworthy--hence making them worthy...

--artista
Posted By: SH_ Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 02/16/18 12:13 PM
Originally Posted By: BluWave
Things are going well for me, my M, and for my family. I feel very grateful for where I am at.


The power and peace that gratitude provides!
Revel in that my dear friend.
It is a glorious thing.



Originally Posted By: BluWave
Ds are doing well too. My oldest is working and has now enrolled herself in college. This was a kid I almost lost entirely, when everything in my world was crumbling around us. My younger girls are doing great too. Our family is thriving again. So life is positive and I won't take that for granted.

Blu


I smile at this...
This is the message I pray more of us can share as we reach the other side of the initial nightmare.

The fear that was struck in my heart at so much moaning and predicting the demise of children from broken MR in my early days here were the ropes that struck fear and would paralyze me at times...
and in my travels I see so many blame the behavior of children on the demise of the MR...when in fact it is normal child like behavior even in families with sound MR...

I am grateful every day to those that encouraged and nudged me to keep focused on my children, and not let statists determine an outcome before taking actions to be the best parent I could be.

In doing so, it pulled me out of my own loathing and pitiful state for a greater purpose...healing commenced at an accelerated rate much in part of this.

And I'll be damned, by daughters have actually thrived and grown in ways that I know will benefit for their future journeys.

Keep on, keeping on my Blu. Your courage, growth and relentless drive is contagious to your family and all those that have the pleasure of being in your circle of influence.

I tip my hat to you
I praise you with the gratitude of my heart for being an influence to me as our paths crossed.
And I know in my heart that you have created a successful chapter in your story.
I look forward to the upcoming chapters that you may share with us.

You embody the very spirit of this message.

"Success is not final; failure is not fatal: It is the courage to continue that counts." ~Winston S. Churchill

(((Blu)))
Posted By: BluWave Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 02/26/18 11:22 AM
V, as always, thank you for stopping by.

artista, thank you for your posts. I feel as if each time I read them, I gain another bit of wisdom.

SH, my old friend and cheerleader. I so appreciate your positivity.


I have a very sad update, I am afraid. I am just going to journal a bit. My oldest D's father was recently found dead. She is 19 and had not heard from him in several years. This has brought up so many difficult and confusing feelings. He was a BF from HS and we were very on-again/off-again for many years. I dropped out of college, had her at age 20, and then left him soon after. These were difficult times. As he entered adulthood it became clear he was quite mentally ill. Or course this meant his relationship with our D was strained. About 7-8 years ago he had a psychotic episode and we didn't hear from him again. His family stayed away too.

I thought one day he would come back around, and maybe he could know her as an adult, and perhaps they could have a relationship. That will never happen. He also doesn't know that she herself has had similar struggles and that I was afraid I was losing her much in the same way. Things got especially difficult with her in her mid-teen years, and this was right after my father had passed and my H had left me for OW. I had to send her to wilderness and a therapeutic boarding school for 1.5 years. My beautiful, precious girl. She was only 2.5 years when I met my H, so she was again abandoned by another father. She has been through so much, and sometimes I can't even wrap my head around it...

She is now at home, working a job that she loves, going to college (she enrolled herself), and she is doing so well. And then this bomb was dropped on her. Her father will not be coming back. She holds her head up high and she keeps moving forward. She just amazes me. She is also the best older sister her 2 younger sisters could imagine. And she loves and appreciates her step-dad and how he has raised her, and even after all he put us through, she knows how to forgive.

So here I am thinking about her dad. I can't tell you the h3ll he put our family through for so many years. The custody battles, the missing weekends, the stories this little girl would tell after their weekends, and then he abandoned her and never came back. I thought I hated him. I thought I could never forgive him.

After the call last week everything changed. I have only love and sadness for him. That he suffered from this terrible mental illness. That he had to live knowing he left his daughter. And mostly that he didn't know this beautiful young woman. And I feel grateful for him in another way, because without him, I wouldn't have her.

So there it is. Things will always change. I feel like I still have so much to learn about love, forgiveness, and gratitude.

Life can feel unbearable, but it isn't. I truly believe as we overcome so much adversity, we become these more resilient, strong, interesting, and empathetic people. My girl is living, breathing proof of that.

Blu
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 03/14/18 07:50 PM
Originally Posted By: Cadet
Originally Posted By: doodler

But wait! How do we know that Blu's husband didn't hack into her account and write that post?


Because he would not want to clean the house, as she wrote.



Good one, Cadet.


laugh
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 03/14/18 08:14 PM
Blu

I just stopped by to post the other day and then found your thread.

More to say later, as it's very late here. But I am thinking of you, sending you prayers and good thoughts and strength. And peace to you and especially to your oldest D. May God help her know her worth.

You have deep wells of resilience, my friend. So does your daughter.


I hope we meet someday in RL. Meanwhile, I'll post more later.

Oh, I'm divorced, btw. It's on my thread. (And I'm still standing).

(((( BLU ))))
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 03/16/18 04:15 AM
to be clear, when I said "and I'm still standing" I do NOT mean that I'm standing for my marriage.

It's over.

My guess is that x will marry OW b/c - why not? He cannot be alone, it would take so much work for him to change and make amends to the kids, or me...

much easier to "start fresh" and lose us...as he has.

He was willing to take the chance of losing his family to live in Alaska, for whatever reason (and that was before OW, too).

Now he won't be alone (which he detests). So yes, it's over.

And I'm alright. Depersonalizing it has helped immensely.

It's NOT very complicated, but it is very hard.

takes work, which you and I and many others around here, are willing to do.

(((( ))))
Posted By: BluWave Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 03/22/18 08:20 AM
(((25)))

Thank you for stopping by, friend. It is interesting how things change, and even when it feels that things might never change they always do, eventually. When I started reading here 3.5 - 4 years ago, my life was upside down. I found these forums post-BD when H had left me for OW, my father had recently passed, and my oldest D was spiraling out of control during her teen years. I was sickly underweight, chronically anxious/depressed, and everything felt hopeless. I memorized the rules, but couldn't follow. I would read your posts about reconciliation, relationships, and the advice you offered others. I loved your smart and lengthy posts, and would even search for them just to read your words. You, Sandi, Starsky, Wonka, and others.

And now you are entering a new chapter, and one that I believe will be full of joy and more genuine relationships. Through your battles, and with those battle scars, you inevitably gain more resilience. You also gain a keen and refined BS detector and so you will waste less time on people that are not worthy of your attention. I truly believe this!

And somehow I am still M, and perhaps even in a better M than previously, but with the same man? Who could have predicted we would be here back then? I don't think you could have convinced me of that. So onward we both march into new and uncharted territory. The difference, that you are now D and I am still M, is of less relevance than what it is we have learned along the way. I think we have both learned a lot. We have learned about love, looking inwards, hard work, and self improvement, because we were willing. Fortunately my H was willing to do that too, because had he not, this M would not be working for me.

I know this all sounds so cliche, but in every storm that we weather and survive, we come out a little bit stronger. For that I like who I am today so much more than who I was before BD. I actually like my H more too. I am not smitten, nor disillusioned to his flaws, but I like who he is more. He has changed too. He did the hard work along side of us. Newcomer friends, you deserve (and should only want) your S back if they also do this. This is a MUST.

What hasn't changed in my M is that we both are still choosing to love each other. As Cadet keeps telling us "love is a choice." It's that simple. The bigger difference now is that if he no longer chooses me, I know I will be just fine. Actually, I'll be better; I will be better off because I believe that after I weather another storm, I'll be yet again even stronger than before!

Blu
Posted By: BluWave Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 04/10/18 09:08 AM
10,000 views? Wowzer, people actually do read this :-)

I am going to try and update at least once a month, just to keep up with the boards and let you all know how I am doing. Maybe I should move myself over to Piecing? I don't really think of us as piecing. We are pretty much pieced back together. Maybe we are refining or detailing, but I am pretty sure that will be an ongoing and forever process. Like all relationships, it continues to change and evolve.

I don't know if there is much traffic over in Piecing. Mostly, I want Newcomers to see that their sitch--and the pain & agony--is temporary. I can't go back in time and comfort my left behind self, so I just tell all of you what I think I needed to hear. I wish I could tho. There are so many things I would love to go back and tell my disheveled and brokenhearted self. Geez, I was such a mess. Never again will I let a man bring me down that hard. Nope.

I handle myself and my M differently now. I try and look at my own behavior more and see how I can better it. It's not easy some times. I try to be introspective instead of just rationalizing it. I get impatient and snappy with my H and kids. I gotta work on that. I also don't put up with much BS from anyone. If you send a clear message you only have room for respect, people rise to the occasion. I don't have the energy to bicker. I want to enjoy life.

I have several cool trips planned coming up: Hawaii, hiking/camping, Spain, and some spa time. Some family time and some trips with the ladies and no H :-) Before BD I felt like we needed to do most things as a couple. I don't feel that way at all anymore. I also love my alone time! I have a big bday coming up so it's really on my mind. It's the big one guys. People say it's just a number and it only matters how you feel. Noted. But it matters to me! Especially when you give up your 20s to raise kids. I hope I can embrace this aging with strength and dignity. Weeding out toxic people has helped too.

I don't really have much new to add. I'm somewhat boring and no drama these days. I'll take that! I am going to need to start a new thread soon. Thinking about what I might title it this time ... "Bluwave is going over the hill"???

Blu
Posted By: BluWave Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 04/19/18 07:25 AM
journaling a bit.

Today I took my middle to the pedi for a check-up. She is a teen now so I waited in the waiting room. I felt this unexpected flood of emotions and started tearing up sitting there. I remembered being in that same waiting room when she was a newborn in her carseat and when her younger sister was a baby too. It just hit me out of the blue -- thwack -- and reminded me how we all continue to rewrite history, even unintentionally. Because those were never sad times, and here I am now, trying hard not to cry.

After the babies were born, H took time off work and we spent a lot of quality time together. We would spend days just holding them, staring in awe, long walks, coffees, naps, and picking up older sisters from their schools. I recall these as some of our most precious moments together. I think the times we felt closest were our first years together and the year or so after each of the babies were born. I cherish these times we had and those memories so much.

However, what I realized today is that these same memories feel tainted a bit by what happened the many years after at BD. My tears were not only that of joy for my girls growing up, but for the damage that came later. Even though his A and our separation happened when the girls were older (not babies in car-seats) I was reminded of that time too, even when reflecting on a time that had nothing to do with that. I had to shake off those tears and ask myself "why?" Why does this still so many years later come up for me? And why at times that have nothing to do with *that*?

So I texted him about my sadness. And he replies that he is sorry, that he understands, and that he wishes he could change things but he can't. And I believe him. It's not because of his words, but that he shows my consistent actions daily. I know he wants more than anything to erase his mistakes and I know he is sorry. But he can't change what happened and nor can I. So this is no longer about *that* but this is about my own rewriting history in a way. Because when I think about where I thought his state of mind was when those babies were in car-seats, I wonder now if I was off. Did I not see something in front of me? What did I miss?

Yesterday I read the last thread by the poster ItHurts and it really had me thinking. Even after 4 years of D, a GF of 2 years, he still has a strong love and longing for his ExW. My sitch started over 4 years ago too. It goes to show that even after so much time, and so many changes, sometimes the love remains. Reading his thread reminded me that even if I never let H back that year later, I think he would still take up space in my heart, even all these years later. So now the only thing I can change really is my perspective on all of it. I am still working on that part.

Blu
Posted By: Stormchaser Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 04/20/18 05:59 AM
Hi Blu!!!

I love the updates. Please keep them going.

I should really get back on track with my own sitch, but I had the mods delete my "Piecing" threads a few months ago. A part of me just thinks I'm being phony anymore. Maybe I'll create a new one again, I dunno.

Anyway, I know what you mean about those memories. I think we discussed this one time, when I look at pics in the past, I now think, "was she cheating on me back then?" Everything in the past now seems distorted and questioned.

Perspective. Great word.

You're lucky in that you can text him and tell him how sad you are. If I even remotely mention ANYTHING about the affair, I get a flurry of anger, damning me and wanting to know why I'm still living in the past.
Posted By: BluWave Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 04/20/18 07:27 AM
(((Storm))) I am so glad you stopped by :-) Please do keep posting. It's hard I know, but try once in awhile.

I think it's important that those of us in peicing (or that have reconciled) continue to post. It shows the Newcomers how much changes down the road. After BD we are all so fixated on just getting our S back, that we can really lose perspective of the big picture. If they read more posts like ours', they can see how much work it really takes, that is doesn't always work out even when they do come back, and that really the goal (and true success) is saving ourselves. We cannot change people or force them to come back.

I am sorry things are still hard. I hope you will update. It concerns me that she is not able to support you through this process. As we both know it takes a very, very long time to learn to forgive, trust, and love again. Train posted to me some threads back that she will had struggles at 3 years in. My H has been back for 3 years now. I think there will always be ups and downs. If you are both choosing to stay in the M, then you must both accept that it's going to be hard. Why is she not able to validate your feelings do you think?

I find it hard to read/post here sometimes. It is a constant reminder of a more difficult time. I admire those veterans that have been here for so long and keep it going. One thing that has been happening to me lately, is I feel myself having less patience with posters. I think I need to address a bit of that.

I hear (read) people say that DB doesn't work and where are the success stories. First off, I have said again and again, success is not getting your M back. You cannot force someone to come back to a M just as you could not force them to stay in the first place. There is not authentic way you can trick your S into being married to you. What you CAN control is you. If you can learn to heal and become a better person in this mess, well that is success. It also will more likely lead to them being attracted to you again.

I read a poster wanting to know where the success stories were. I think many that have reconciled do stop posting. For me, it's hard to post. I find myself triggered and I also find myself less and less patient with posters talking about the rules but not actually following them. I see posters pining for a S that is truly mistreating them and it breaks my heart a little.

I have read LBS talking about being cheated on, lied to, abused, neglected, removed from their home, watching their S abandon their kids, and all sorts of egregious behavior. These people sound as if their S has done them a favor by leaving! Why oh why do you want this person back? The concept that they are an alien, having a MLC, or it's just a "different version" of them, is a sad and pitiful excuse to me. Let this person go. Learn to value yourself and know your worth. In time you will attract someone that sees your value too. My H was wayward, selfish, and neglected us too. But let me be clear, he still did not abuse me or my kids, he left our home, he paid half the bills, he saw our kids every day, and when he started to come back, he presented someone that was changing for the better. That criteria IMO is a must before you should consider taking someone back. So what can you actually do before they start changing? Let them go, detach, and save yourself.

The success stories are all over this board in those that have truly followed the rules and worked hard on their 180s, GAL, and detachment. That is success. Saving yourself is the best success! You cannot change them and why do you want someone that treats you so badly?!?

Perhaps someone needs to swoop in and give me a 2*4? Anyone??? I have been reading some threads lately from Newcomers and I can't even bring myself to reply. The doormat behavior just kills me. I know this is really, really hard to do -- just read my threads back, I get it, I have been there! But if you keep clinging to someone that is walking all over you, you will never move forward. You have got to hold your head up high and respect yourself. Your S will not want you back if you are waiting around for them or letting them walk all over you. I read someone post (not in these exact words) that they would rather be with someone than alone, even if they were being abused. This makes me terribly sad. No one, and I mean no one, wants to be with a person that thinks so low of themselves.

I consider myself a success story. And it is not because my H is back. It is because I now know what I deserve. H being back is the added bonus. I truly mean that.

Storm, we all have so much to learn from you too. Even if your M is not where you hoped it would be. The posters also need to see that the fantasy they hold of their M being restored is that-- mostly a fantasy. This is a lot of hard work any way you dice it. It is going to be hard to go forward with D and it's going to be hard to reconcile with all the damage.

Anyone other veterans get easily frustrated at this stage? ... I know someone is reading here. And I am sorry for my impatience, but people, you have got to stop spending all your energy on wanting your S back and start creating a wonderful life that others (including your X) will want to be a part of.

Blu
Posted By: Maika Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 04/20/18 08:03 AM
Blu!! Thanks for sharing your thoughts and perspectives. I have always immensely appreciated reading about your journey and it has helped me a lot mentally and emotionally. I am by no means a vet, so I will leave your query to them, but I do feel a bit impatient with the hopelessness and wanting to turn things around quickly on the newcomers board. Well, I was kinda like that at some point, so it's hard for me to judge them. But, I know what you're saying.

Storm - so good to see you back. I wholeheartedly agree with Blu about continuing to share your story. I learned so much reading your story and that piecing is no walk in the park. No joke! Gave me good perspective, which I think is invaluable to the newcomers who are just trying to get their spouses back, not realizing that the journey after that is tough and brutal too.

Thanks to both of you for sharing.
Posted By: Gordie Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 04/21/18 04:59 PM
Posted By: BluWave Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 04/27/18 07:05 AM
Maika, thank you so much for saying that! I am glad that people find something helpful in my posts. Yes, the needing and wanting immediate results quickly is what we all want in a way. It's just not how it (or life) works. This process takes a long, long time and things will continue to change in unexpected ways. The reality is that you cannot change another person, only yourself. Any marriage program that claims that one person alone can save a marriage, is utter nonsense! So we each were given this gift, which is the rug pulled out from under us, and now we can no longer deny we are on the floor and need to get ourselves back up!

Gordie, you had a disappearing post! I hope you will write it again!

I don't have a lot to add. I'll be honest and say that my triggers and resentment still bubble to the surface at times. I can't help but wonder if it will always be that way. It's so confusing to look at someone and know that they are a good person, that you love them, and that you want them in your life, but then to continue to have a reminder pop-up of something so dark and terrible. There are no more sharp pains, but the dull aches can wax and wane, and I keep thinking I have to fix it or make it go away. Then I wonder is there something wrong with me? Am I not strong enough, forgiving enough, or am I lacking genuine compassion for him and his own process? Because like all of you, I can only control myself in this, but sometimes I don't like what I see in myself. I think I talk a good talk, but I know I can do better.

Blu
Posted By: JujuB Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 04/27/18 09:52 AM
Hello bluwave,

My experience, my perspective is different from yours. Not once did my ex waver in his decision to leave us. There were never any sentimental exchanges or mixed messages, so my opinions and understanding of your situation will certainly differ. My thoughts about wayward spouses is different and that might just be my own coping mechanisms..


However, one thing i notice from the LBS usually after BD is this huge guilt. For not being able to keep their emotions in check. When i first signed on we were all giving each other 2x4s when we dared to show our emotions to our ex's, when we dared to react or call our ex out over their sh!tty behavior. God forbid we weren't these perfect lighthouses shining the light for our lost and cheating spouse. Many of us take on this huge guiltfor minor infractions compared to the actions of cheating, lying, stealing

I look back and want to throw up at that mentality. In the name of marriage we were propagating putting up with very abusive situations. We were not only being hurt by pur spouses, we were being our own worst enemies.

Now heres the thing...whats wrong with having an emotional reaction (as long as it's not destructive or abusive) torwards a person that is not treating us correctly?

Your ex did some pretty sh!try stuff. And yes, he has turned around and made it right. But why are you taking on guilt for reacting to his sh!try behavior? Its natural. It's to be expected. You did nothing wrong. Having moments of anger or detachment is ok because its what you feel. So what if its been a while. If he's done the right thing. You are entitled to these feelings and they are due to his actions. His actions have consequences.

What I'm trying to say, is that you did Nothing wrong. Maybe start accepting yourself and your emotions that are natural.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 05/01/18 02:41 AM
Hi Blue

A few rambling thoughts.

1) like you, I find myself frustrated with witnessing LBS doormat behavior in the face of an utterly remorseless WAS.

the "fog lifting" and the "affair fog" and the "MLC" terms are phrases that irk the heck out of me at times. Here, You never read about narcissistic behavior that does not improve and or personality disorders that are very hard to treat (so the disordered person is exceedingly unlikely to change)...

2) like Juju, I have not seen any sign of my x awakening at all. On the contrary, he's engaged to his OW and marrying this month, and he is not inviting our kids to the wedding.

To be honest, his not inviting our kids is a relief for me. (My ego would have taken such a hit to feel replaced and have OUR kids with his new wife and new life...and he posts now on facebook and instagram (!!??!) with her and they are "so happy" and "So active"...

But it also suggests that his narrative of our m vastly conflicts with what our children might say up there. (=Truth).

Actually I do think my x has some form of personality disorder b/c his views and statements of "fact" that were proved false yet which he clings to, are just crazy.
So that makes me feel like a real dolt to have spent so much energy on maintaining an illusion...

I KNOW I bought into the db world and saving my marriage like a cult member in a new church, a church that reassured me that what I was seeing with my eyes was not the culmination of years of abusive crap by an increasingly selfish man, with an insatiable ego and need for chaos and - ironically - control,

but was somehow an "MLC fog"...which I often question the value of now.

A part of me is furious at myself (working hard on it in therapy) and a part of me is furious at db for helping me waste a decade of my life putting up with so much deceit and blindly "reframing" h's horrific behavior.

You can argue - and I do - that I benefitted by having that time with my kids and living in a beautiful area of the country then, too. There was a trade off and I'm not a victim.

yet The fact that x sees our m totally differently as if HE is a victim and without regard to deeply wounding the 4 people who loved him the most, reassures me that he's hopelessly screwed up. NO matter what label you put on him, he is bad news for ME.

I want him to have a r with our kids BUT not at all cost. He has hurt them far far more than he will ever know or admit or face or work to amend.


Blue's situation is one which we all thought we wanted...and God knows I credit her h for being one of those rarely seen unicorns who screws up and gets it! AND wants to do the work to undo as much as he can and rebuild what they can!

I wanted that but I mistook x's self pity and missing us, as true remorse and self awareness, which it was not.

Knowing that Blues case is the best case scenario is what newbies must realize. And without a long shared history and kids, and the type of h she has, - who won't flinch when reminded of her pain - I'm not sure many would want to do it.


Just my .02

Blue, keep posting. It matters. And thanks for stopping by my thread.

I don't feel like a success since x has thrown away 35 years of marriage, a woman who loved him deeply and 3 children who deserve so much better than he gave and his integrity - the lying under oath and hiding income OMG OMG, and it seems as if he sees not a single problem with it.

In fact in his narrative I am the villain and he is the victim. It feels insane and infuriating to write and read that, and it kind of is...

hmmm

when I read that^^^ - those are the moments wherein I wonder "maybe I'm just around the corner from seeing what a favor x did by leaving me when he did - (ie when I was so sick -no way to reframe that crappy choice.)

Maybe I have dodged a bullet. My golden years would have been a nightmare and now, instead, I get my turn."

So maybe that's the success part, eh?
Posted By: JujuB Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 05/01/18 06:13 AM
25, most of us on here are or were in relationships in which we looked to our lying, cheating spouses for validation that they were not in fact lying or cheating. Of course we were. We didnt want to hear anything else so we grabbed on to that.

Coming here was an easy transition once they left, cause again we were being told what we wanted to hear. That theres a chance they will come back. That we can improve that chance if only we change and make some 180s. Hope as long as we are capable of turning ourselves into lighthouses.

There were posters here that straight out told me to just let go. That he wasn't worth it and others that left me feeling like I needed to hang on and fight for a marriage my ex had already pulled the plug on.

The theory was that I was not to give up on marriage just because he left and was sketchy, not paying child support etc.. because then i would be doing the same as him. That his reasons for initially leaving, (me not doing his laundry, not being ambitious enough, getting mad when he didnt pick our son up fron preschool at 12 in the afternoon cause i was at work and he slept through alarm clocks consistently) hurt his poor little feelings just as much as his leaving and gaslighting had hurt mine.

That i could not argue against his lack of committment if i myself was to break committment based on his action of leaving. If that makes any sense. (I'm writing from a cell phone)

But here's the thing. I clung to those arguments for a reason. Sure, i debated back that I was not an innanimate object. That he once threw a paperback book at my stomach when i was pregnant cause i was nagging him too much about saving money instead of going to expensive football games.

But i still clung. And im annoyed that I clung for as long as i did.

My ex is an empty, addict, narcissist. But like yours had a high IQ and dressed well and was quietish so i never believed it was possible. But like yours is, they are simply bad people.

Sometimes I think we just need to hear that instead.... they are bad people.
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 05/01/18 06:57 AM
I am a newcomer and I'm finally starting to realize how much of a doormat I've been. And I feel really stupid. To answer you're question of "why does someone want a person back that has treated them so badly?" I think we are all in denial at first. We can't believe that the person we love so much is actually a bad person. We convince ourselves that they are confused and not the real version of themselves. That they can "be fixed" or return back to the loving people we thought they were. In reality, many of them are just sh'tty human beings and we never realized it in the first place. I'm as guilty as anyone on this board for having that frame of mind, but the more and more I think about it, like a previous poter mentioned, my WW is not "in a fog", she most likely suffers from a serious personality disorder that isn't just going to magically disappear. And I've learned that my kids and I deserve better than that. As much as we come here hoping to find a way to save our M, the real value of this board is coming to the realization that we need to love ourselves and stop worrying about our crappy spouses...
Posted By: Maika Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 05/01/18 07:54 AM
JujuB - I agree with you. Sometimes we make ourselves jump through amazing semantics to cling on.

Yeh I think there are people who are just bad at this. I mean with the volume of divorces and affairs and all of this, it just makes me believe that we as humans are really adept at f#$#ing this up. However, that becomes a pretty neat excuse because there are tons of us who didn't make that choice.

I wonder how this 'badness' works with WW/WH vs WAS.

In my case, I am not entirely convinced that W is 'bad' per se. I know that she's got a lotta stuff she's never dealt with and didn't have the architecture of being a self-aware and independent person. For that matter, I don't think I was either, but I guess I put some stock in commitment compared to her. Otherwise we wouldn't be here.

So I dunno if she's 'bad' people... I don't want to assign another label to make it sound they're pathetic or pity them in a paternalistic kinda way....

I just think all the $hit that was put under the rug caught up and she wasn't able to handle it all.. and decided that shedding everything including me and the family life was the answer to it.. time will only tell if she was right...

I am also annoyed that I clung for a long time... I just had a breakthrough yesterday and I haven't felt this settled in a long time. I am through and done now.

My W is an anxious stressball with bad self-image issues and now when I look back, it was right there from the beginning - I just didn't see it the way I can see it now.
Posted By: BluWave Re: Don't want to be a wayward wife ... - 05/03/18 11:45 AM
New Thread:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2788068&#Post2788068
© DivorceBusting.com