Not even sure where to start on this. I'm in the midst of trying to 180 and save my marriage from the big D.
I guess to start, I pushed my wife away. She may not have needed any help, but I certainly didn't do any favors. Last summer we found out we were expecting our 3rd. We didn't have insurance at the time and I think I stressed too much about it. I already had a drinking problem and for whatever reason my wife and I lost our connection. I started talking to neighbors, and ended up having a short lived affair. We went through the usual shouting "I don't feel loved anymore" and she was the one that didn't want to give up despite me feeling like it was over. Eventually she took our vehicle and kids and went to stay with friends. Took me about a week to realize my mistake and to end things with OW and another week before my wife decided to talk and make things work. This is where things got even more unfortunate and she had a miscarriage. It was devastating for both of us because it would have been our first son, but she held on to it more than I did.
In the short term, we both got jobs, she moved back in, we were close, I stopped drinking. She literally threw herself at me, like sex every day throw herself at me. What I didn't put together until later is that I think some of that was tied to me not drinking at the time. I had stopped cold turkey from years of drinking half a bottle a day. I think maybe she hoped that if she gave me everything I wanted, I'd never drink again.
A month or so later we sold our house and relocated closer to her job. We were going to counseling together. Things seemed to improve for a few months. I started drinking again. Just a little at restaurants, then a few nights at home. I made a very conscious effort to limit myself to one or two drinks per night and only a few nights per week. I saw this is a compromise with her when really I think she wanted (knew, more on that later) me to stop completely even though she never explicitly said so.
Fast forward to spring of this year. We stopped counseling because things seemed to be going better. Insurance had changed and we had to transfer to a new person within the practice. Given the seemingly good state of things I didn't want to restart things if it wasn't necessary.
Spring later turned a bit rocky, I missed the expected due date of our late son which I didn't realize she expected me to remember. Fights happened. I did everything I could remember from counseling to try and keep her happy. There were more fights. I later realized my "anger" as she would put it was more frustration with not getting through to her. I couldn't understand why she didn't respond to my needs when I tried to bend over backwards to keep her happy. I could tell things were off, but I was in the midst of a big change at work. I almost called and got a counseling appointment but didn't.
In late June I went on a business trip. A week before this she had picked a huge fight which seemed really out of character for her. I feel this was a setup for what happened next. Halfway through my business trip she calls me in an apparent attempt to end things. I abruptly ended the conversation saying I didn't feel it was appropriate to have when I was across the country. Little did I know she had spent the day moving out. I talked with her once or twice in the days after not yet understanding the gravity of the situation. Finally I booked a flight home a few days early. I raced home from the airport only to find our apartment completely empty. She left my things in my office, and one of the kids' bunk bed mattresses on the floor. No bed, no couch, no furniture, no table. It was all gone.
The next few days were filled with rage. I was angry. She had taken my kids and my life away from me. She wouldn't let me see my kids or tell me where she had moved. Eventually I realized that I had pushed her away (I was reading a book on couples communication I had ordered while waiting on my flight home). I immediately started to change. I stopped drinking. As the weeks progressed and somewhere around the 1 month point, I confided in her that I realized I needed to give it up for good. At this point she tells me a story about a late friend of ours that had been sober twenty something years. My wife had confided in her. The friend told her that I'd have to hit bottom on my own to realize and that my wife needed to hang in there. She'd hoped I'd realize before it was too late. This was something that my wife at no point had ever admitted to me, not even during our first counseling sessions.
It was about this time I finally got back into counseling sessions for myself. I had called within a day or two of arriving home but it took a few weeks for an open appointment. This gentleman was much better than the person we had spoken with before. He was also the one that recommended I buy Divorce Remedy.
At one point we were in the car together with the kids, she told me that I cheated on her because I hated her, that I was verbally abusive, and that she blamed me for the miscarriage. This was devastating. I knew I had an uphill battle. Given that her friends had convinced her of some of this, not only was I going uphill, but I had people throwing boulders at me on my way up. Most of this made it into the custody filing too-- I hit our kids (spanked, how I was raised), yelled, called them names, and drank.
The rest of the summer seemed ok. I was learning, and my wife even seemed somewhat open to maybe making things work. Eventually at the end of the summer I was able to move to be near my kids. I went from being an hour away to 3 blocks away. Unfortunately the custody arrangement has me seeing my wife almost every day of the week and while I love my kids and won't ever turn down an opportunity to see them, it certainly makes it hard to go dark and avoid her.
Communication seemed good for the most part, we were talking and friendly although there have been some apparent times she maybe didn't want to talk. There were other times we were on the phone together for an hour talking with or about the kids. The past month has been the worst and just the other day I decided I really needed to detach as best as I could and do a 180 from some behavior that wasn't working. She wanted 2 months to "be parents" ... I gave her over 3. Things seemed ok so I started trying some things. She said she hadn't been sleeping well, and while she has an excuse the nights our kids are at her house and wake her up (kid sleep issues), there's no excuse for her not sleeping the nights I have the kids. I figured it was worry about something-- maybe that I changed and she didn't expect that and that she had said some somewhat inflammatory things online and she'd have to explain to friends why we got back together if we did. I told her that I stood by her decision to move out because it was the best thing she could do at the time and it triggered my wake up. I said it felt like we still had some type of connection and that we'd go through it together and I had her back. At the time this seemed like a net neutral effect rather than negative.
About a week later she randomly dyed her hair and wore makeup which I found odd, but had no explanation for. A week after that happened to be the 10 year anniversary of when we met. I left her flowers and a letter on her porch. This seemed to be a big negative trigger. Her behavior changed. She avoided me a few days later on our actual 7 year wedding anniversary and had apparently called a divorce attorney again this week. Up to this point she had only filed for custody. Since Wednesday or so I've significantly curtailed communication other than about the kids. Though even just now as I type this she called to inform me that our daughter cut her hair (at my house) and seemed very blame-y towards me. I'm not sure what triggered this big wave of negative energy towards me after things seemed to be going so well. I'm sure she's getting some encouragement from family and friends who all refuse to acknowledge me.
My head is spinning and I feel trapped.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Hi Dmoy, I'm new and overwhelmed by my own husband leaving but I read your post. It sounds like you've been responsive to your wife and have made a good effort to work on the marriage and fix things. That's really nice you left her flowers and a letter. If you're doing all these things with good intentions I don't see why she's acting that way, but maybe she'll cool down over time or you'll find a way to ask her somehow.
All I can say if my husband did what you're doing I'd definitely be happy to work with him to fix the marriage.
Nicole,
Thank you for the kind words. I think I really just need to force the issue of detachment at this point. It's hard to do after being together for 10 years. It seems any time I bring up our relationship it's making her feel pressured and I need her to be relaxed so that we can move forward.
She had a rough weekend after our daughter cut her hair, then when she went to get it cut, she found out our daughter had lice. I went out and got supplies and had her bring the kids over later in the day and took care of it. My wife seemed pretty uncomfortable when she showed up, but after running back to her house to start laundry, asked if she should bring a pizza back. We actually ate together as a family for the first time in a long while.
Probably my biggest thing is overwhelming responses. I need to chill and not react too excitedly when things like this happen, or it'll be right back to pressuring her. I'll get there... and hopefully at some point she'll come around.
My head is spinning and I feel trapped.
Have you read the book? If not, Id start there.
What have you been doing to GAL?
My head is spinning and I feel trapped.
Have you read the book? If not, Id start there.
What have you been doing to GAL?
Yes. Back to Last Resort Technique at this point.
As for GAL, been getting out of the house when I can (I work from home), taking walks, and otherwise trying to find things to get involved in. Had the kids get involved a neighborhood cleanup program. Otherwise involved in their school (PTA) and other events.
I'm partially married to my job, which I'm trying to do a better job setting boundaries. I've got the kids every morning for about 2.5 hours before school, and after school 3 nights a week. I've got Mon/Wed evenings free after work usually, and Saturday evening along with Sunday afternoon/evening.
I took a drive Sunday afternoon to get out of a house a bit after church. Going to visit a friend next Saturday evening.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Dmoy,
I'm going to pass along some 2x4's but that's what you get when you come here.
You had an A and you are an alcoholic.
LRT and going dark are NOT for the person that had an A and has a drinking problem.
You need to be going to IC, AA and doing 180's the likes the which the world has never seen. 180's that are GENUINE, not just to win your W back. You need to be present, giving and humble when it comes to your W. On top of your A and your drinking problem, your W (and you too) are having to deal with a miscarriage. Thats some hard $h!t.
You need to be patient and empathetic with your W. She needs time to see the NEW Dmoy, if you really have changed.
Do NOT bring up R talk. Your W can do that when SHE is ready.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
No kidding. Haha. I've been trying to do this, but she may have accidentally seen it on Sunday when she was here dealing with the lice incident (earlier post).
Since ending most communication last Wednesday she's actually called me on the phone rather than text me at least 8 times since Saturday. We used to talk a lot on the phone when we were first dating. Not sure the significance at this point but just going to continue logging stuff in my journal.
Since ending most communication last Wednesday she's actually called me on the phone rather than text me at least 8 times since Saturday. We used to talk a lot on the phone when we were first dating. Not sure the significance at this point but just going to continue logging stuff in my journal.
Read up on pursuit and distance and you will understand that it is in ACTION in your post above.
Dmoy,
I'm going to pass along some 2x4's but that's what you get when you come here.
You had an A and you are an alcoholic.
LRT and going dark are NOT for the person that had an A and has a drinking problem.
You need to be going to IC, AA and doing 180's the likes the which the world has never seen. 180's that are GENUINE, not just to win your W back. You need to be present, giving and humble when it comes to your W. On top of your A and your drinking problem, your W (and you too) are having to deal with a miscarriage. Thats some hard $h!t.
You need to be patient and empathetic with your W. She needs time to see the NEW Dmoy, if you really have changed.
Do NOT bring up R talk. Your W can do that when SHE is ready.
Yup. And going to counseling. Been sober 3.5 months at this point and not looking back. It has not been a struggle period. It was more habitual than anything (numbing, go read Daring Greatly by Brené Brown). And after my wife shared the story of our late friend who she confided in, it gave me even more reason. I just wished she had communicated her feelings more explicitly, or at least during couples counseling last year when we discussed the subject.
I'll enlighten you on some more details I haven't yet shared here-- After the affair and miscarriage, we renewed our wedding vows (last Oct, a day before our 7th anniversary). Given the tone of the recommitment, I'm still trying to figure out how not even 9 months later she fled, but that's beside the point. My resuming drinking, albeit just a fraction of before, was obviously a sore spot, and a bigger one than I was aware of at the time. I think she had some convincing along the way though from friends that I "wasn't going to change" (her words). There have been posts on FB some in my family have seen where her friends were very anti-me.
She has good days and bad days. Limiting conversation seems to have improved things (removed pressure about our future), so that's good. LRT does pretty much fit my situation though. And although I can't truly go dark given that she sees me 6 days at week to some degree and I have the kids at some point every day, she's well aware of how I'm doing and how I'm doing with them.
Not working through the A or miscarriage is on me. I was ashamed of the A and didn't want to talk about it, just move on. After she left the second time, I realized that it was important that we work through it. Unfortunately our counselor never really advised this during our earlier sessions. I really wish I had "Dealing with Infidelity" a year ago...
dmoy, hello and welcome! It would help us if you could put a timeline in your signature. It sounds like you're doing well with DBing and congrats on staying sober, that's clearly a huge 180 in your case! The one thing I will say is I get the impression from reading your posts that you're expecting a turnaround too soon. Once a spouse gets to the point of dropping the bomb, they have convinced themselves that they are 100% done. You cannot convince them otherwise, and the more you try the more it pushes them away. You live for YOU. You do 180's for YOU. You GAL for YOU. Eventually her position may soften and then she'll look back, and you want her to see a stronger, better, more independent, more confidence you. That may attract her back. But you have to take a long-term approach because it can take a year or more before a WAS might change their mind. Good luck and keep posting!
Well, back for the first time in a while. Things seemed to improve over Christmas. Had been separated around 6 months at that point. Got the courage to ask WAW over for Christmas dinner since I had the kids that afternoon and she had no plans. After a bit of convincing she actually agreed which shocked me. She came, and had a good time.
Over Christmas break I had the opportunity to spend time time w/ her and the kids on a few occasions. We goofed around, did things together and had a good time. I focused on my kids while there but noticed her constantly watching me out of the corner of my eye. Checking out my my interactions with the kids and smiling. Things seemed to be going good. The first week of her back to work after the break went OK, but that weekend she spent with friends and seemingly has reverted to being her old self.
I've recognized that work stresses her out and have tried to empathize, help mitigate, encourage, and even take the kids sometimes to eliminate additional stress. But I think some of her work friends that she vented to last year were culprits in WAW becoming a reality and giving up on our marriage shortly after renewing our vows. I can't say for certain, but the perception is she spent time with them and then completely changed her tune.
I understand there will be ups and downs, but this seems a bit extreme. Maybe not. I don't think there's much I can do about who she surrounds herself with. I just need to remind myself to move on and hopefully at some point she stops listening to the people stoking the hatred in her heart. Even worse is that I've noticed some of her other friends, the ones who did encourage her to work on things with me the first time, are now "separated."
Any thoughts on apologies? I've appologized a few times for various things but it never really seemed like it connected. I was reading "When Sorry Isn't Enough" by Gary Chapman and made me thing whether or not I was apologizing the wrong way, not empathizing with the pain she felt after the affair. The typical guy "I said I'm sorry, lets move on", though I've given more heartfelt apologies since she moved out the second time. I'm just on the fence on whether it'll help or push her away more. I suppose that's more in how I give the apology (not begging to come back, etc).
I saw it mentioned in the MWD Infidelity book, but not in as much detail other than apologize and keep apologizing, rather than the "how" aspect.
I'd hate for all the hard work I've done to be in vain because I half-a$$ed an apology and the one reason she never gave me another chance was because she felt I didn't regret what I did to her.
Had a decent week with WAW but so far she still seems hesitant do do anything IRT working on things.
Two weeks ago was a bit rough with Valentines Day. Got wife and kids cards. Nothing special for W, just a friendly card (no "I love you") and a gift card for a spot she frequents. Sunday was filled with surprise church membership which left me sad because a month before she had gone to a meeting and I was unable to attend. When I inquired about the membership meeting she brushed it off like there was nothing that would immediately come of it. Imagine my shock 4 weeks later when she was in front of the church becoming a member and I was left sitting there with the kids.
I left her alone for a day because I wasn't in the mood to talk after feeling lied to. I was hurt and didn't have much nice to say so I opted to say nothing at all. Then on Monday (next day) out of the blue she asked if I wanted to spend some time with the kids together. We had a good time, things seemed better. Later that evening I took the kids to their counseling appointment, and had the opportunity to read to them before bed. Tuesday went well, she even joked with me when I dropped the kids off. It's nice for those times when she lets her guard down and jokes with me. Wednesday evening I got a surprise visit from them on their way home from girl scouts.
Friday night I took the kids to W's school where she was volunteering for an evening activity. We hung out for an hour or so and she thanked me later for brining the kids. Saturday when she came to pick them up she came in and hung out for a bit.
Today I finally decided to bring up the subject of next Saturday. I had gotten tickets for a Gary Chapman seminar that was happening at a local church. I very simply asked if she wanted to join me and she declined. I'm being patient, and I'll wait forever if I have to, but my concern is around me and my past. Despite the huge personal changes I've made, she seems unwilling to talk about anything.
One comment that stands out from last spring during one of the fights a month or so before she moved out was that she'd never be able to trust me again. Additionally she told me that she feels I was verbally abusive and that I cheated on her because I hated her. This information came after she moved out. I think there were some friends involved and some promises made to/by them to not let her get back together with me.
I've read (and re-read) both Divorce Remedy and Healing from Infidelity (particularly the doing it alone / when betrayed spouse wants out chapter.)
My question becomes that the verbal abuse part is a wild card not addressed in either book. And for some people they equate this with being as bad as physical abuse which means no return under any circumstances. While I admit I acted controlling and had said mean things at times, but I definitely didn't do it out of spite or hate. I'm not sure how to overcome this. I hurt her and feel horrible for that.
I had thought about putting the verbal abuse issue on the back burner for now and not getting hung up on it until I know for certain it's a blocker and focus rather on rebuilding trust-- asking what I did last year that eroded her trust for good and asking what I can do specifically to help get her to trust me again.
The one thing that I didn't try in Healing from Infidelity was the written letter (pg 176).
Thoughts on any of all of the above? Really just looking for ideas at this point.
Had a decent week with WAW but so far she still seems hesitant do do anything IRT working on things.
And she won't be interested in working on things for a long, long time. There are a lot of deep-seated issues that brought you to this point and it is completely understandable that she has lost all trust. What took this long to tear apart is not going to be rebuilt overnight. 180's plus time = change she can believe in. You've got to do 180's on your issues, and you have got to stick to those 180's for months or even years before she will believe it's real.
I left her alone for a day because I wasn't in the mood to talk after feeling lied to.
Is that not "more of the same" behavior? Add "No More Mister Nice Guy" to your reading list, it's not what the title sounds like. It deals with the "nice guy" syndrome and the passive/aggressive behavior you're engaging in (like a lot of us did).
I was hurt and didn't have much nice to say so I opted to say nothing at all. Then on Monday (next day) out of the blue she asked if I wanted to spend some time with the kids together. We had a good time, things seemed better. Later that evening I took the kids to their counseling appointment, and had the opportunity to read to them before bed. Tuesday went well, she even joked with me when I dropped the kids off. It's nice for those times when she lets her guard down and jokes with me. Wednesday evening I got a surprise visit from them on their way home from girl scouts.
Friday night I took the kids to W's school where she was volunteering for an evening activity. We hung out for an hour or so and she thanked me later for brining the kids. Saturday when she came to pick them up she came in and hung out for a bit.
All of that is fine but don't put any hope in it, she's likely just prepping you for "life after D". I'm not saying not to have any hope at all, I'm just saying that this kind of stuff is pretty typical and does not mean she's changed her mind yet.
Today I finally decided to bring up the subject of next Saturday. I had gotten tickets for a Gary Chapman seminar that was happening at a local church. I very simply asked if she wanted to join me and she declined.
Don't say anything to her about it again, and you should go anyway.
I'm being patient, and I'll wait forever if I have to, but my concern is around me and my past. Despite the huge personal changes I've made, she seems unwilling to talk about anything.
How long has it been since BD? If less than a year then no, you're not being patient! You've got to stop the pressure and give her time and space while you work on yourself. Settle in for the long haul.
My question becomes that the verbal abuse part is a wild card not addressed in either book. And for some people they equate this with being as bad as physical abuse which means no return under any circumstances. While I admit I acted controlling and had said mean things at times, but I definitely didn't do it out of spite or hate. I'm not sure how to overcome this. I hurt her and feel horrible for that.
You should apologize to her (specifically) for that, but don't apologize over and over. One heartfelt apology and a pledge to do better no matter what the outcome of your M. Thank her for sharing it with you.
and focus rather on rebuilding trust-- asking what I did last year that eroded her trust for good and asking what I can do specifically to help get her to trust me again.
Unfortunately the time for that has passed. She's two feet out the door now and more than likely will not want to talk about it. Your focus should not be to "help her trust you again", it should be to fix the things you need to fix for you, your kids, and your future whether W is in it or not. After lots of time she may look at that new person and decide she wants a relationship with him.
And she won't be interested in working on things for a long, long time. There are a lot of deep-seated issues that brought you to this point and it is completely understandable that she has lost all trust. What took this long to tear apart is not going to be rebuilt overnight. 180's plus time = change she can believe in. You've got to do 180's on your issues, and you have got to stick to those 180's for months or even years before she will believe it's real.
Yeah. I'm trying to be patient.
Is that not "more of the same" behavior? Add "No More Mister Nice Guy" to your reading list, it's not what the title sounds like. It deals with the "nice guy" syndrome and the passive/aggressive behavior you're engaging in (like a lot of us did).
I read this and now have more questions than answers. While I think some of the info is good, the book itself seems to be totally fine with pushing divorce which runs opposite to the goal here. The pendulum swing is too big.
We had an agreement on child support and she decided to file for it through the court after employer cut my (and all management) pay for 2 checks because they were having payroll issues. I've told her before I don't feel it's fair and she's trying to get more money. She's out spending like she won the lottery and I'm living paycheck to paycheck and have no money to do anything with the kids when I have them. Based on the calculator I'm going to end up paying even more month to month.
Yesterday I tried to set some boundaries and asked her to pay her portion of the cell phone bill and car insurance that I'm still paying. All that did was blow up in my face.
How long has it been since BD? If less than a year then no, you're not being patient! You've got to stop the pressure and give her time and space while you work on yourself. Settle in for the long haul.
18 months since the affair and we got back together. 8 1/2 months since BD and she moved out while I was out of town for work.
In DR, MWD said general rule of thumb was 1 month for every year of marriage, 7 in my case. Are expectations way too low? I understand it's different for everyone and I can do things to set things back but that seems like conflicting advice.
You should apologize to her (specifically) for that, but don't apologize over and over. One heartfelt apology and a pledge to do better no matter what the outcome of your M. Thank her for sharing it with you.
Wrote her a 2 page apology letter as recommended in the doing it alone section of Healing form Infidelity and gave it to her 2 weeks ago. Made my peace.
Unfortunately the time for that has passed. She's two feet out the door now and more than likely will not want to talk about it. Your focus should not be to "help her trust you again", it should be to fix the things you need to fix for you, your kids, and your future whether W is in it or not. After lots of time she may look at that new person and decide she wants a relationship with him.
Yesterday (and earlier this week) I had asked her to be more open/explicit/honest with me. This was one of my biggest complaints that I let go when we were together. I'd say things were fine but never communicated my need for her to be explicit with me. She did send some photos of the kids last night even though our talk blew up a bit.
She keeps saying she just wants what's best for the kids (w/o reconciling) but she's a product of a broken home and has father issues similar to the NMMNG issues they have with their mothers. I feel deep down she knows that the best for our girls is for us to reconcile but she made it pretty clear last night that was an impossible task. This is based off her feelings she voiced when we renewed our wedding vows ("I hope our girls strive to have a relationship like ours and I want to show them how important marriage is.", 18 months ago). The last thing I want for my girls is to grow up in that situation, resenting one or both of us. My girls are awesome and they deserve better.
I'm done fighting with her and made it clear that I'm fighting for her because I believe in her marriage.
It's just really sad because my 6 year old said she's now afraid of marriage because she thinks that if she yells at her kids, her husband will leave with them and she'll never see them again. So heartbreaking. 😢
So after my last post, I had a conversation with her over text shortly before/after I had posted. It was somewhat serious and after she reiterated she just wants what's best for the kids I insinuated I think we both know that's reconciliation. These were the words on the top of her mind when we renewed our wedding vows after all.
Things seemingly turned around that week. She spent some time with us. Joked around. There was lots of eye contact and her body language was overall better. It seemed like things were headed in a good direction. She even mentioned putting me on her dental insurance when she goes through open enrollment. To me that meant she wasn't intending to file for divorce immediately and was maybe considering the future.
This weekend she declined to visit my family because she felt uncomfortable and that's understandable. Because the kids would be with me an extra night I gave her the opportunity to hang out with us some on Saturday before we left. On Sunday when she had the kids they came down to get bikes to ride to the park. I ended up tagging along and we had a great time again spending a few hours together as a family.
Monday night things took a turn for the worse. She's been complaining about me hanging around at drop-off the past 2 weeks (really the only complaint she's had) because the kids want me to read bedtime stories, etc. 10 months after they were ripped from their home and they're still suffering through their parents being separated. So after I left to go home WAW texted and pushed for me to drop off and not hang out because she perceives that as the source of the problems. Thinking things had been improving and with my back up a wall in resolving my living situation in < 60 days I brought up the elephant in the room being our separation taking a toll on the kids. After some back and forth discussion and her bringing up lots of things I did including the "you wanted this and wanted to be with someone else" (almost 2 years ago at this point) and things I did wrong when we got back together and briefly tried counseling. She then brought up how the kids now have a safe place to live which is a bit of the farce because I get my kids every day before school and 3 nights a week. If I were yelling at the kids at all they wouldn't be here. The fact they never want to leave me is a testament to how they're being treated now that I'm in their life and being the father they need. I'm glad for the decision she made because it woke me up, but I'm sad for her seeming stubbornness to improve the situation.
She ended her discussion with she's been hurt too much and doesn't feel the same about me. The last line was very negative and something I'm seeing mirrored in my kids now. "I can't change the way I feel." My youngest (6) is very moody saying "everybody hates me, nobody wants to be my friend or family", etc. If she does one thing wrong she sees herself as a bad person. Its hard for her to come up with something to be thankful for.
I have to accept that as the truth because those are her feelings, but I don't accept it as a definitive reality because for the past 5 weeks, her behavior and body language was anything but. It feels like she may be having an EA with someone and they're pressuring into leaving me permanently for whatever reason.
I think most of this came to a head because I'm under the gun on my lease renewing in 45 days and being locked in for another 12 months with a very cost prohibitive out clause. Living paycheck to paycheck in financial suicide with debt we can't pay off. Assuming she didn't leave last June and we maintained a single household, the debt would be all paid off by now and we would have had 4-5 months of savings in the bank.
Trying to be patient but I'm at a loss of what to do. Today I'm trying to go dark and just not text at all for a few days aside from kid stuff. They're getting dropped off tonight and I'm not even going to get out of the car. She can have her way and deal with them leaving me and see how they behave when it's just her.
dmoy, would it be safe to say you are a very reactive person? As in if someone pushes you, you push back? If someone disses you you diss back? If someone insults you, you insult back?
I am the same way, that is why I recognize it in you. That is why you are doing this passive-aggressive "hey're getting dropped off tonight and I'm not even going to get out of the car." Is that really the reaction that will get you ahead?
You should have validated when she texted you: "nd pushed for me to drop off and not hang out because she perceives that as the source of the problems." You should have responded with a validating response (see the sticky on validation). If she responded to validation, validate again.
Tonight when you drop the kids off, go in. Say goodnight to them. And leave in a timely manner. She'll be the one that deals with the fallout from the kids not getting their normal routine. Don't be angry. Don't be pouty. Don't be passive-aggressive. Interact with her the way you normally do, but read the thread on detachment and put it into practice.
I think you'll get more mileage out of DBing than you will out of being passive-aggressive and reactionary.
Dmoy,
I agree with Steve, it seems like you are trying to punish your W for her feelings. She is hurt and harboring resentment. You have to validate those feelings. You can't tell her how to feel. You told her you wanted to be with another woman. People whole on to things like that for years. You are a few months into showing her a different person.
She will be up and down. She is confused, you have to stay steady and consistent. If you wavier and become vindictive in your approach then you are only proving her point, and showing her you only changed to get her back. The changes you have made should have been for you and not to get your W back. Your changes should have been to improve yourself.
Your W is hurt, she has to grieve and get out all the pain, the best way for her to do that is for you to validate and acknowledge your wrongs when she brings them up.
You need to post more often as well.
I glad to see that relationship with your kids getting better. Keep up the hard work.
dmoy, would it be safe to say you are a very reactive person? As in if someone pushes you, you push back? If someone disses you you diss back? If someone insults you, you insult back?
I am the same way, that is why I recognize it in you. That is why you are doing this passive-aggressive "hey're getting dropped off tonight and I'm not even going to get out of the car." Is that really the reaction that will get you ahead?
You should have validated when she texted you: "nd pushed for me to drop off and not hang out because she perceives that as the source of the problems." You should have responded with a validating response (see the sticky on validation). If she responded to validation, validate again.
Tonight when you drop the kids off, go in. Say goodnight to them. And leave in a timely manner. She'll be the one that deals with the fallout from the kids not getting their normal routine. Don't be angry. Don't be pouty. Don't be passive-aggressive. Interact with her the way you normally do, but read the thread on detachment and put it into practice.
I think you'll get more mileage out of DBing than you will out of being passive-aggressive and reactionary.
Steve,
I wouldn't say it's reactive in the sense I read your examples (tit for tat) but I would say the pendulum swings have been extreme at times even though I'm getting better.
You're right on lack of validation. I'm still struggling with that and usually realize
after rather than during a conversation. I did have a good validation/empathy convo this past week where she explained something to me and I validated.
One thing I had forgotten last night was that she told me she didn't sleep for a few hours the night before. I should have kept in mind she was tired and just never had the conversation I tried to have.
I'd love nothing more than to go in and say goodnight but I have a feeling it may stop at the porch. She's met me on the porch once or twice before and cut me off from even going inside. The whole "daddy won't be allowed inside" is something she's told the kids a few times in the past week, but I had only heard through the kids. Last night was the first time she actually said it to me.
Nevertheless, taking them to the porch and acting nice would be better than staying in the van and acting passive aggressive.
joejoe,
Thanks for the kind words. The changes have been for me, and have been good. I think I just stress myself out trying to work on things faster. Circumstances like daughter having unknown medical condition hasn't helped either.
I need to stop and validate regardless. Sometimes I'm my own worst enemy when talking rather than just validating and shutting my mouth.
"Nevertheless, taking them to the porch and acting nice would be better than staying in the van and acting passive aggressive"
"I need to stop and validate regardless. Sometimes I'm my own worst enemy when talking rather than just validating and shutting my mouth."
Yes yes and yes. You know what to do. You have been reading. Now its time for actively applying what you already know.
Had some stuff to give W when I dropped kids off so I left the van running but took them to the door. Handed her school papers and kissed the kids goodnight. D6 refused to let me go. I had to hug and kiss again then physically separate after a minute and walk away because it's a never ending cycle unfortunately.
W called about 5 min later to get clarification on what she needed to do with paper but otherwise didn't have anything to say. I remained pleasant but didn't get into anything with her because she seemingly didn't want to talk and I wanted to give her some space after last night rather than push. She didn't text at all today either. Aside from D6's bipap report she sends me every morning we didn't talk at all today.
Debating whether I text her later and apologize/validate some of the things she said last night or just leave her be for now.
In general you should let her start conversations, text or otherwise, and you end them.
Dmoy,
You are into day one. If you text her you will start from day zero.
She knows your number and how to get in contact with you.
Now its time for you to detach and work on yourself.
Give her space and time. From this moment forward everytime you come in contact or speak she's gets the best version of Dmoy. She sees a betrer, more positive and confident Dmoy. You are going to have to do a lot of self reflection and work on yourself. Figure out where you help the demise of the M and start to 180 those. Figure out some traits that you need to improve. Meet new people.
And always feed the good wolf.
joejoe,
I'm a bit lost on your comment, sorry. There are valid points in there but your day comment one threw me off. Maybe you're not familiar with my whole story and already being physically separated 10 months.
This most recent episode was testing the waters and while she told me she felt things were over, (that was implied last June as well), I think it was more reactionary to me than anything else. Surely that didn't reset the clock to zero.
joejoe was talking about you initiating conversations. Whenever you give in to your desire to talk to her and initiate contact, the clock for you fighting that urge starts over.
Initiating conversations IRT "us"? That may be possible. But conversations in general, not really. Between the kids. Despite being physically separated, I see her at least once a day 6 days a week, some days I see her 2 or 3 times.
The "going dark" has always bugged me because to me it feels like going silent is almost just a passive-aggressive reaction to her saying or doing something I didn't like.
Initiating conversations IRT "us"? That may be possible. But conversations in general, not really. Between the kids. Despite being physically separated, I see her at least once a day 6 days a week, some days I see her 2 or 3 times.
The "going dark" has always bugged me because to me it feels like going silent is almost just a passive-aggressive reaction to her saying or doing something I didn't like.
Read Sandi's rules. No one suggested going dark. Nor going silent. Going dark means you don't respond, and no one said to ignore her. Not initiating means you avoid initiating any non-logistical discussions. IE, dealing with the kids is logistical. But keep it businesslike.
When she initiates you validate. Read the validation thread.
Things seemingly turned around that week. She spent some time with us. Joked around. There was lots of eye contact and her body language was overall better. It seemed like things were headed in a good direction.
No, things were not turning around. What you are seeing is the byproduct of your DB'ing and removing the pressure from her. She no longer felt like she had to have her guard up. That is exactly what you want, but you can't read anything into it because it's going to be months or even a year or more before she'll start to see things differently.
She even mentioned putting me on her dental insurance when she goes through open enrollment. To me that meant she wasn't intending to file for divorce immediately and was maybe considering the future.
It doesn't mean anything. Like many of us did, you're trying to hard to read recon into every little thing.
Monday night things took a turn for the worse.
No they didn't, things were the SAME. Your PERCEPTION is that things got worse because you started reading too much into the above.
She's been complaining about me hanging around at drop-off the past 2 weeks (really the only complaint she's had) because the kids want me to read bedtime stories, etc.
I think she is probably right. It too soon post-separation for you to be hanging out at her house (and vice versa). You've got to get settled into a routine of being SEPARATED first, and acclimate the kids to that. Later you can explore relaxing that a bit, but for now I agree with her that you should drop them off and go. Kids are very much "out of sight out of mind". If you drop them off and go then 5 minutes later they'll be happily doing their thing. But if you linger then it is harder on them.
Regarding this:
10 months after they were ripped from their home and they're still suffering through their parents being separated.
I sense a lot of blame there. Be careful with that. If your W were here she would no doubt talk about all the things YOU did that caused the S. There's plenty of blame to go around.
I brought up the elephant in the room being our separation taking a toll on the kids.
Don't. That's R talk, and that's pressure. I also sense some blame assignment there (you blame W for S, so therefore you are passively blaming her for the kids experiencing problems).
After some back and forth discussion and her bringing up lots of things I did including the "you wanted this and wanted to be with someone else" (almost 2 years ago at this point)
Is it your opinion that 2 years is past the statute of limitations for harboring resentment? Because I doubt she sees it that way!
Assuming she didn't leave last June and we maintained a single household, the debt would be all paid off by now and we would have had 4-5 months of savings in the bank.
Lots of blaming here. You are harboring a lot of resentment towards your W, do you think she'll want to come back to an angry, resentful H? Whether you recon or not you have GOT to let it go. My brother divorced 7 or 8 years ago and STILL resents his W. You sound very much like him. He blames his ex for his financial woes, the issues his kids have, etc. etc. Everything is her fault, even now, 8 years later. He is sad, angry and bitter. And worst of all, he is STUCK. Don't do that to yourself.
They're getting dropped off tonight and I'm not even going to get out of the car. She can have her way and deal with them leaving me and see how they behave when it's just her.
So you are hoping your kids will be miserable and cranky and thus you will be punishing your wife by using your kids against her? I have a different approach for you. BE THE BEST FATHER EVER. Forget your W, how can you model the best, strongest, most dignified behavior to your kids? DO THAT INSTEAD. Get out, walk them to the door, give them each a big hug and kiss, tell them that you love them. Then go.
Steve,
Validation is the biggest and hardest part. I did that a few times in the past week in general discussions. It's hard because she chooses not to talk which means there's no "foot in the door" so to speak as far as opportunities to actually validate and show improved behavior.
A lot of times I'm slow to think about it, but then I later realize "yes, I know how you feel." Getting better/faster at making those connections so I can better connect with her is key.
The one good thing that came of the discussion Monday was that she practically gave me the playbook for what I did wrong.
- I lied about how much I was drinking.
- She wanted to talk about what happened (the affair), I didn't.
- I continued to call all the shots and didn't recognize her feelings.
- I hit (spanked; she portrays as abused) the kids, and yelled at them when frustrated.
The first I have no response for aside from validation. We're both at fault here. I wrongfully assumed she knew that I was having 2 drinks one night when I went to the kitchen and came back with a refilled cup, but I wasn't explicit about saying I had a second drink so I was accused of lying. Continually trying to be open and honest about things, and be accountable to do something when I say I'm going to do it.
The second I recognized later after I read Healing from Infidelity and had since called out and apologized for. Nothing really I can do there at this point until she brings it up.
The third has been an ongoing process the past few months as I've tried to listen and validate things (like D6's medical care/concerns) and finding opportunities where we can work together on things (like involving her in doing the taxes 2 weeks ago).
The last is a non-issue for the most part. Sometimes still get angry/frustrated with the kids but it's a rare occurrence. She likes to wave this one as the reason she had to leave and can't come back, but if there was any validity to it now I wouldn't have custody of my kids to the extent I do. Clearly it's still a big issue in her mind though, at least when digging for negative emotions. I've been great around the kids, especially when she's around. Always room to improve though.
No, things were not turning around. What you are seeing is the byproduct of your DB'ing and removing the pressure from her. She no longer felt like she had to have her guard up. That is exactly what you want, but you can't read anything into it because it's going to be months or even a year or more before she'll start to see things differently.
It doesn't mean anything. Like many of us did, you're trying to hard to read recon into every little thing.
No they didn't, things were the SAME. Your PERCEPTION is that things got worse because you started reading too much into the above.
I thought that was the whole point. Experiment, test the results. If they don't go the right way, reverse course and try harder. Hindsight is 20/20 and you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. It probably was lack of pressure and I tried to jumpstart things.
I think she is probably right. It too soon post-separation for you to be hanging out at her house (and vice versa). You've got to get settled into a routine of being SEPARATED first, and acclimate the kids to that. Later you can explore relaxing that a bit, but for now I agree with her that you should drop them off and go. Kids are very much "out of sight out of mind". If you drop them off and go then 5 minutes later they'll be happily doing their thing. But if you linger then it is harder on them.
This gets difficult because she wants to co-parent which means spending time together as a family.
I sense a lot of blame there. Be careful with that. If your W were here she would no doubt talk about all the things YOU did that caused the S. There's plenty of blame to go around.
Don't. That's R talk, and that's pressure. I also sense some blame assignment there (you blame W for S, so therefore you are passively blaming her for the kids experiencing problems).
Is it your opinion that 2 years is past the statute of limitations for harboring resentment? Because I doubt she sees it that way!
Lots of blaming here. You are harboring a lot of resentment towards your W, do you think she'll want to come back to an angry, resentful H? Whether you recon or not you have GOT to let it go. My brother divorced 7 or 8 years ago and STILL resents his W. You sound very much like him. He blames his ex for his financial woes, the issues his kids have, etc. etc. Everything is her fault, even now, 8 years later. He is sad, angry and bitter. And worst of all, he is STUCK. Don't do that to yourself.
Yeah. I've accepted blame openly for all I've done wrong. She acts like she's blameless in all of this. I think I'm really just jaded because I thought we had moved on, we renewed our vows, moved back in, went to counseling, made financial plans, etc. Then I go away for work only to come home to an empty house. I later found out she moved my kids out of state, an hour away. To realize the person you thought you loved had been smiling and lying to you face while living one foot out the door is devastating.
I'm not trying to be resentful, I'm trying to be practical. But I've learned, and often need to be reminded, that you can't talk facts with someone who is making emotion-based decisions. I think it's also the reality of trying to get on my feet multiple times and having life pull the rug out from under me.
In January I heard work was having payroll issues. I immediately called her, then she immediately called her uncle (who's recently divorced) for an hour (I was still snooping on phone records at the time). Apparently she used my lack of pay as an excuse to file for child support despite me consistently paying her what we had discussed and promised. Had it not been for my parents bailing me out here and there I'd be homeless and not even able to provide for my kids. That's a huge stress.
Maybe it's my own childhood where I got beat up in school and didn't defend myself because I didn't want detention for getting into a fight, only to get reprimanded by the principal anyway for not defending myself. The whole d@mned if you do d@mned if you don't thing got reinforced by W on multiple occasions. I think I just need to do stuff and embrace the imperfection.
Trying to be more positive overall. W can be very negative and I see that in my kids. She posts a lot on SM and gets positive feedback from "friends" so the cycle continues. Hopefully if I turn the kids behavior around it will reflect on me and maybe even get her to change her own attitude for the better. I recently just deleted all SM profiles and have been getting out more / ignoring the news.
So you are hoping your kids will be miserable and cranky and thus you will be punishing your wife by using your kids against her? I have a different approach for you. BE THE BEST FATHER EVER. Forget your W, how can you model the best, strongest, most dignified behavior to your kids? DO THAT INSTEAD. Get out, walk them to the door, give them each a big hug and kiss, tell them that you love them. Then go.
Thank you for the reminder. My response immediately above captured what you said before I even processed what you wrote.
Validation is the biggest and hardest part. I did that a few times in the past week in general discussions. It's hard because she chooses not to talk which means there's no "foot in the door" so to speak as far as opportunities to actually validate and show improved behavior.
Yeah that's part of the challenge is now that you have some tools you hardly ever get to use them. That will probably change over time though.
[*]I lied about how much I was drinking.
[*]She wanted to talk about what happened (the affair), I didn't.
[*]I continued to call all the shots and didn't recognize her feelings.
[*]I hit (spanked; she portrays as abused) the kids, and yelled at them when frustrated.
Whenever she offers info like this then do not argue with her about ANY of it no matter how outlandish you think it is. Just thank her for sharing her thoughts and tell her you will use this info to work on becoming a better person.
I thought that was the whole point. Experiment, test the results. If they don't go the right way, reverse course and try harder. Hindsight is 20/20 and you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. It probably was lack of pressure and I tried to jumpstart things.
Yeah a lot of people read the book and misunderstand, they think that if they throw every trick at their W including the kitchen sink then surely SOMETHING will bring them back and end this quickly. But that's not how it works. REAL CHANGE + TIME = CHANGES SHE CAN BELIEVE IN. Nothing in DB'ing happens quickly. If you think you're seeing a turnaround it's usually a misinterpretation of a softening of her position. If you pull back and remove all pressure then she will relax, communicate more, maybe temperature check. That doesn't mean anything has changed, it just means you're going the right direction. Like Michele says, this is all about baby steps. There are rarely any big moves.
This gets difficult because she wants to co-parent which means spending time together as a family.
And that's fine, but the two of you have to agree on what that means. She clearly does not want you hanging out at her place and doesn't consider that part of co-parenting, so you need to honor that request. By the way, it is completely within your rights to make the same request of her when she drops the kids off to you (if she's not doing it already).
Yeah that's part of the challenge is now that you have some tools you hardly ever get to use them. That will probably change over time though.
Found a marriage app called Lasting and it's had some useful sessions, even if I do them by myself. There are daily reminders about talking to your partner and how to listen. I applied one the other week when she said something and I asked her for more info so I could try and put myself in her shoes.
Whenever she offers info like this then do not argue with her about ANY of it no matter how outlandish you think it is. Just thank her for sharing her thoughts and tell her you will use this info to work on becoming a better person.
Yup. What I've been trying to do. Not 100% perfect, but getting there.
Yeah a lot of people read the book and misunderstand, they think that if they throw every trick at their W including the kitchen sink then surely SOMETHING will bring them back and end this quickly. But that's not how it works. REAL CHANGE + TIME = CHANGES SHE CAN BELIEVE IN. Nothing in DB'ing happens quickly. If you think you're seeing a turnaround it's usually a misinterpretation of a softening of her position. If you pull back and remove all pressure then she will relax, communicate more, maybe temperature check. That doesn't mean anything has changed, it just means you're going the right direction. Like Michele says, this is all about baby steps. There are rarely any big moves.
Well it was weird. We've had positive stuff on and off. After the last argument in March where I subsequently apologized for not managing my feelings better and then had a heart to heart with her the next day, she immediately changed her own behavior and it had been positive and getting much better for 5 weeks. I obviously jumped the gun, but what was I supposed to think? Patience. Getting there.
And that's fine, but the two of you have to agree on what that means. She clearly does not want you hanging out at her place and doesn't consider that part of co-parenting, so you need to honor that request. By the way, it is completely within your rights to make the same request of her when she drops the kids off to you (if she's not doing it already).
Honestly in reading her text the other night the issue wasn't that I came in and hung out, but that she felt it was because it kept the kids up late. She's generally never had issues with me staying on say a Saturday afternoon when I bring them back. Instead of listening and agreeing I tried to make my feelings trample hers.
So after a few days of silence I'm starting to doubt. It's hard to tell when she won't share anything.
Last time (~6 weeks ago) when we talked about stuff, she sent me pictures of the kids later. I apologized for letting my feelings get the best of me and then had a long text convo with her the next day trying to better understand what I had done to her. Ended the convo with something along the lines of "I hope I can be worthy of your love again someday." Immediately I saw a change in her behavior.
Since Monday night when I committed the cardinal sin of ending the conversation where she said she doesn't feel the same way about me and she can't change how she feels, with "good night, I love you" she's been very standoff-ish. She's barely texted, even about the kids. She usually shares something about their day, but today I haven't seen or heard from them since church.
It starts to make me doubt the detach/GAL is right in this scenario because she deals with depression. Yesterday when I dropped the kids off she was all mopey around her house. I went in for ~5 min to help carry stuff in and say goodbye to the kids. She acted awkward the entire time I was in her house, and then when it was time for me to leave, I bounced out the door all chipper saying "Have a great evening" with a smile on my face. She put a smile on her face and said goodnight.
She's very good at grinning and bearing it. She did this for years making it seem like things were good. Most of last spring was this behavior from her. Apparently she wasn't happy, but she'd always put a smile on her face when she came home from work and pretend things were ok. What am I supposed to think when you hide your feelings from me?
Another thing that happened this week with D6 and her doctor appointment. I took her Wednesday. She was having a bad day and spent half the car ride crying (unrelated to the doctor appointment but rather because she left some clay there and we were too far gone to turn back and get it.) I was texting WAW about this on our drive home and even sent her a picture of D6 crying (along with some pictures from the dr appt). Turns out she posted all of that on FB and made it out like D6 hated going to all the doctor appointments and that God hates her because she's sick. This was all made up but it got WAW the sympathy she so desires from random people online. I get that some of that is my fault for not listening and validating. She's made this community of 600+ people on FB that she broadcasts this to all for sympathy and attention. It really makes me sad.
I'm at a loss of what to do. Do I reach out or just leave her be? She was really opening up the past month then I shot myself in the foot. Both feet, perhaps.
W is back to her super-negative behaviors again. Maybe dealing with some depression.
I did text her later last night to inquire about the kids. She was pleasant and joked a little bit. Left it at that.
This morning I maintained my good mod and I joked with the kids as she dropped them off. I came out of the house wearing D6's Elsa ball cap on my head because it matched my sweatshirt. Wished W have a nice day and she didn't say much in return.
Kids came inside and started playing on a couch I got from my parents. They were having a blast sliding down the leather sofa and building forts. I sent some photos to W and her response was "I hope they don't get hurt."
Not really sure if/what I can do other than maintain my own positive attitude. She wants affirmation and support but she's looking for it in all the wrong places so her "friends" stoke the negativity rather than positivity. This is like trying to have a relationship with Eeyore some days. Sigh.
Since Monday night when I committed the cardinal sin of ending the conversation where she said she doesn't feel the same way about me and she can't change how she feels, with "good night, I love you" she's been very standoff-ish. She's barely texted, even about the kids. She usually shares something about their day, but today I haven't seen or heard from them since church.
This is typical WAS behavior. They'll pull you in and then push you out and repeat. Just keep maintaining minimal contact and quit trying to examine every little thing she does to try and find meaning in it.
It starts to make me doubt the detach/GAL is right in this scenario because she deals with depression.
Detaching and GAL'ing is ALWAYS right. You can't fix her, and she doesn't want your help anyway. Focus on you and the kids.
She's very good at grinning and bearing it. She did this for years making it seem like things were good. Most of last spring was this behavior from her. Apparently she wasn't happy, but she'd always put a smile on her face when she came home from work and pretend things were ok. What am I supposed to think when you hide your feelings from me?
Part of the idea of detaching and GAL'ing is so the WAS can start to realize that whatever they are feeling- depression or sadness or whatever, is not because of the LBS. They go into blame mode where they blame the LBS and decide the "fix" is to get rid of the LBS so they can finally find true happiness. The more you try to intervene and make contact and ask them out and talk about the R then the more convinced they are that it really is your fault. But when you remove yourself from the equation and they're still not happy, then they start to confront the REAL cause of their unhappiness (which is usually something within).
Another thing that happened this week with D6 and her doctor appointment. I took her Wednesday. She was having a bad day and spent half the car ride crying (unrelated to the doctor appointment but rather because she left some clay there and we were too far gone to turn back and get it.) I was texting WAW about this on our drive home and even sent her a picture of D6 crying (along with some pictures from the dr appt). Turns out she posted all of that on FB and made it out like D6 hated going to all the doctor appointments and that God hates her because she's sick. This was all made up but it got WAW the sympathy she so desires from random people online.
First, why in the world are you texting your W at all, much less texting her pics of D crying? Second, quit looking at your W's FB page if you want some peace of mind.
I'm at a loss of what to do. Do I reach out or just leave her be?
Have you read DR? Leave her alone. Get out. GAL. Give her time and space. Quit second-guessing DB'ing, it's counter-intuitive because human nature is to pursue, but human nature is WRONG when it comes to a WAS.
This is typical WAS behavior. They'll pull you in and then push you out and repeat. Just keep maintaining minimal contact and quit trying to examine every little thing she does to try and find meaning in it.
Huh. Must have missed this.
Detaching and GAL'ing is ALWAYS right. You can't fix her, and she doesn't want your help anyway. Focus on you and the kids.
Part of the idea of detaching and GAL'ing is so the WAS can start to realize that whatever they are feeling- depression or sadness or whatever, is not because of the LBS. They go into blame mode where they blame the LBS and decide the "fix" is to get rid of the LBS so they can finally find true happiness. The more you try to intervene and make contact and ask them out and talk about the R then the more convinced they are that it really is your fault. But when you remove yourself from the equation and they're still not happy, then they start to confront the REAL cause of their unhappiness (which is usually something within).
This is a good perspective. Thanks
First, why in the world are you texting your W at all, much less texting her pics of D crying? Second, quit looking at your W's FB page if you want some peace of mind.
Took D to specialist appointment, but I probably could have avoided sending W pic of D crying. It certainly doesn't help and the stress of whatever D has isn't helping. I don't need to keep pouring it on and should just deal with it myself.
Not looking at FB. I deleted all social media the other week. Was something relayed by my father who is the only person in my family she's still connected with.
Have you read DR? Leave her alone. Get out. GAL. Give her time and space. Quit second-guessing DB'ing, it's counter-intuitive because human nature is to pursue, but human nature is WRONG when it comes to a WAS.
Humans are stupid creatures.
1 more Q just because I need to get the stupid out of my system.
W is running a half marathon this weekend. She's ran it a few times before but skipped last year. The other weekend she was excited when kids and I came to support her in a local 5k.
Thinking I'm ok with a basic "good luck on your run" text or audio message from me/kids but leave it at that? She's grown accustomed to the support and appreciates it. Just thinking totally avoiding saying anything at all would make me seem like a jerk and I'm trying to get out of the passive-aggressive habits of old me.
Really struggled last night. Had been good the past few days, focusing on myself, being there for my kids, being strong and determined. I still have hope that things may get better despite WAW's hurtful words last Monday.
After a week of very little contact, even IRT kids, I was pretty down last night. Didn't sleep well (couldn't get to sleep). Just reflecting on the lack of contact. It's new to me. It feels foreign, and hard to comprehend, but I keep telling myself it's for the best right now.
This morning when dropping off the kids W took a second to fix my shirt. Nothing crazy and certainly nothing to hold on to. But after 9 days of little to no contact, it offered the glimmer of hope that I needed, that things may not be as bad as she made them out to be last week.
dmoy, not to burst your bubble, but it was likely guilt over the hurtful words that caused her to fix your shirt. Most WAWs will try to continue to be "nice" until the D is final. I am seeing more and more WAW behavior where they want the D to be as smooth as possible, and will bend over backwards to grease the runway to get the D through as painlessly as possible.
Remember, WAWs are trying to be happy. That is their ultimate goal. Dwelling on D proceedings/filings/briefs/court appearances aren't what makes them happy.
When my neice left her husband for another guy, she was trying to be as nice as possible until she got the final D decree. Once she did she was as happy as a lark to move on with the new guy.
Believe nothing she says (even her hurtful words) and only 1/2 of what she does (fixing your shirt this morning).
Humans are stupid creatures.
I wouldn't say stupid, we are highly intelligent, but yet driven by base instincts at the same time. After BD I was having crazy anxiety attacks and read up on fight-or-flight syndrome (which was exactly the anxiety reaction I was having). It is just so bizarre that we've evolved well past the need for fight-or-flight and yet when something like BD happens to us it triggers that instinct in us even though our intelligent, logical brain KNOWS it is an unneeded and in fact unwanted reaction. I mean I was there sitting in the same office I had sat in for 10 years, no physical danger whatsoever, and yet my instinct was telling me there was danger nearby and I needed to run. It was so strong that I simply could not sit at my desk, had to get up dozens of times a day and stroll the hall or even outside the building aimlessly (which didn't really help much).
Anyway, my point there is just that our base instincts are not always right. That's the struggle with DB'ing is it doesn't "feel" right, at least not at first. Eventually when you see it working you'll come to embrace it more.
1 more Q just because I need to get the stupid out of my system.
W is running a half marathon this weekend. She's ran it a few times before but skipped last year. The other weekend she was excited when kids and I came to support her in a local 5k.
Thinking I'm ok with a basic "good luck on your run" text or audio message from me/kids but leave it at that? She's grown accustomed to the support and appreciates it. Just thinking totally avoiding saying anything at all would make me seem like a jerk and I'm trying to get out of the passive-aggressive habits of old me.
Given that she responded favorably last time (remember, keep doing what works, don't do what doesn't work) I would call her and say "hey would you like me to bring the kids by to watch you run?" I think phrasing it that way takes the "pursuit" aspect out of it.
dmoy, not to burst your bubble, but it was likely guilt over the hurtful words that caused her to fix your shirt. Most WAWs will try to continue to be "nice" until the D is final. I am seeing more and more WAW behavior where they want the D to be as smooth as possible, and will bend over backwards to grease the runway to get the D through as painlessly as possible.
Remember, WAWs are trying to be happy. That is their ultimate goal. Dwelling on D proceedings/filings/briefs/court appearances aren't what makes them happy.
When my neice left her husband for another guy, she was trying to be as nice as possible until she got the final D decree. Once she did she was as happy as a lark to move on with the new guy.
Believe nothing she says (even her hurtful words) and only 1/2 of what she does (fixing your shirt this morning).
Entirely possible. Trying not to read too much into it.
But what's the play? If they want to be happy and appease just to get D finalized it seems like there's nothing that can really be done. Sometimes DB really seems a lot like a wing and a prayer.
Detach, fix yourself, and
hope that W sees the change and decides to change course. But from the sounds of it, most of the time this doesn't happen and maybe it's more dumb luck. In the end you come through with change to yourself but that's like getting a consolation prize, tbh. "You're now single again and your kids will grow up in a broken home, but at least you feel better about yourself!"
Not trying to be negative, just realistic. Life isn't all unicorns and rainbows.
Humans are stupid creatures.
Given that she responded favorably last time (remember, keep doing what works, don't do what doesn't work) I would call her and say "hey would you like me to bring the kids by to watch you run?" I think phrasing it that way takes the "pursuit" aspect out of it.
This race was out because it's pretty far away. I had asked her the other week and she pushed back on it with excuses-- "I haven't practiced much so it's going to be a bad run" ... "it's far away" etc. Realistically she's staying w/ family and I don't think she wants them to find out we're spending time together.
She did redirect and say there's another local event a few weeks later that we could go to instead of going to the one further away.
I think we'll send her well wishes since we're not able to attend this weekend, but I'll follow up on supporting her at the next one since that did seem to work.
Thanks
dmoy, not to burst your bubble, but it was likely guilt over the hurtful words that caused her to fix your shirt. Most WAWs will try to continue to be "nice" until the D is final. I am seeing more and more WAW behavior where they want the D to be as smooth as possible, and will bend over backwards to grease the runway to get the D through as painlessly as possible.
Remember, WAWs are trying to be happy. That is their ultimate goal. Dwelling on D proceedings/filings/briefs/court appearances aren't what makes them happy.
When my neice left her husband for another guy, she was trying to be as nice as possible until she got the final D decree. Once she did she was as happy as a lark to move on with the new guy.
Believe nothing she says (even her hurtful words) and only 1/2 of what she does (fixing your shirt this morning).
Entirely possible. Trying not to read too much into it.
But what's the play? If they want to be happy and appease just to get D finalized it seems like there's nothing that can really be done. Sometimes DB really seems a lot like a wing and a prayer.
Detach, fix yourself, and
hope that W sees the change and decides to change course. But from the sounds of it, most of the time this doesn't happen and maybe it's more dumb luck. In the end you come through with change to yourself but that's like getting a consolation prize, tbh. "You're now single again and your kids will grow up in a broken home, but at least you feel better about yourself!"
Not trying to be negative, just realistic. Life isn't all unicorns and rainbows.
dmoy, if you are looking for a magic bullet to save your M, then yes, you are going to be disappointed. There is none. The whole problem with trying to save your M is that you have NO CONTROL over your W. None. And any efforts to control her will only further cement her decision to D.
So yes, you work on you. Detach. GAL. 180s. BE THE BEST YOU THAT YOU CAN BE, and then with every opportunity you have, show her that you are the best you can be!
You're in a better position than some in that you have kids, unless she is completely off the rails she will want to maintain a relationship with her kids, and that's your in. Do exactly what you did this morning.
Also, don't answer her phonecalls. Don't respond to VMs and texts right away. Make her wait. Sorry, you were busy. Keep texts to logistics about the kids. You have to start getting a little mysterious. Make her wonder what is going on. You see, the reason WAWs don't like it when you start to pull back is because you are their safety net. Their plan B. When you start to take that away they feel disoriented, uneasy and start to question their decision. The idea of you not being their to catch her if she falls makes her feel that she may be making the wrong choice.
So take away the safety net. Don't be plan B anymore. Will it work in saving your marriage? Maybe. Maybe not. But how has what you've been doing been working for you? Time to 180.
dmoy, if you are looking for a magic bullet to save your M, then yes, you are going to be disappointed. There is none. The whole problem with trying to save your M is that you have NO CONTROL over your W. None. And any efforts to control her will only further cement her decision to D.
So yes, you work on you. Detach. GAL. 180s. BE THE BEST YOU THAT YOU CAN BE, and then with every opportunity you have, show her that you are the best you can be!
You're in a better position than some in that you have kids, unless she is completely off the rails she will want to maintain a relationship with her kids, and that's your in. Do exactly what you did this morning.
Also, don't answer her phonecalls. Don't respond to VMs and texts right away. Make her wait. Sorry, you were busy. Keep texts to logistics about the kids. You have to start getting a little mysterious. Make her wonder what is going on. You see, the reason WAWs don't like it when you start to pull back is because you are their safety net. Their plan B. When you start to take that away they feel disoriented, uneasy and start to question their decision. The idea of you not being their to catch her if she falls makes her feel that she may be making the wrong choice.
So take away the safety net. Don't be plan B anymore. Will it work in saving your marriage? Maybe. Maybe not. But how has what you've been doing been working for you? Time to 180.
Thanks for the reminder on the bolded. I had gotten comfortable in oversharing again as she spent more time together over the 5-6 week period. Maybe she was just being nice. Who knows.
What I do know is that her behavior then did not match her words of "I don't feel the same way" and "I can't change how I feel." Those words were a lizard brain (yes, AS, that's what it's actually called
) reaction to my pressure on R. I'm 100% confident when I say that there was an emotional connection, for whatever reason. The eye contact and intimacy holds a significant bond when talking to someone or sharing in an activity together. It's one thing we should all focus on when trying to better connect with our spouses. So despite what she said in the moment, her body language in the weeks prior was saying the opposite. Whether she knew it or not.
In any sense, I'll get back to mystery. Taking care of the kids and not sharing what we're doing.
Well the last few weeks have been meh. W is up to her usual. I'm trying to find ways to improve myself and remove my own focus from her. Been working on empathy and validation but it doesn't work as well over text, obviously. Limited IRL interactions long enough to hold any type of convo. I'm between a rock and a hard place because she's given me the playbook-- didn't appreciate her or validate her, but then little chance to try and do that now. (I read a book called "I Hear You" which was very good. I'll drop more details about that in the validation thread for everyone's benefit.)
The local race we were going to go to, when I asked her about that the other week she had made plans to take the kids to her mom's and cut me out of the loop. When I asked she said she "forgot" and it was "last minute" which with everything else just felt like an excuse for her not admitting she didn't want me there.
Other times she's pushed her way in and hung out when it benefits her. I've started pushing back a bit. It's hard to do because she uses the kids. I'd do anything for them and it's hard to tell if it's intentional or not. I don't want to seem like an a-hole for refusing when I'm available and I also love spending every minute of time I get with them. She's also repeatedly texted me old photos of me and the kids and sometimes our dog that I had to put down back in March.
In conversation about 3 weeks ago we were talking about the dentist again and she again mentioned something to the effect of putting me on her dental insurance starting in July, which makes no logical sense since that's about the same time she'd be eligible to file for D given the 1 year separation mark.
More recently, the other day at drop-off the kids were nagging her again about getting back together and why she wouldn't do it. She brushed them off with "it's adult stuff." I just kept my mouth shut and didn't encourage the girls as to not put any more stress on her.
Also of interesting note was that she unfriended my mom and sister on FB back around Jan-Feb and hasn't talked to my mom since. Out of the blue she texted my mom to wish her a happy birthday the about a week ago.
Lots of conflicting stuff. Trying not to think too much about it. Just feels like she's saying one thing and doing another. It'll be interesting to see what happens in July once she can file for D if she wants. We've never discussed it. Feels like maybe she's not ready but has pressure from friends/family.
As far as me, I've been working on getting out more, and want to start working out and shed about 30 pounds. Figure if I'm more attractive that'll be better. At least for me. Unfortunately I got sick about 3 weeks ago and it's taken it's toll on being able to exercise.
I'm a bit stressed with work, they're having payroll issues again. Obviously looking for another job just in case. I haven't told W yet since last time she used it as an excuse to go to the state and file for court-ordered child support. With the laws in this state, eviction is also swift so I'm already in a bit of a bind. If I lose my apartment I'm not quite sure what I'll do. It won't be good for the kids, I know that much. I want to be honest but it feels like it comes back to bite me every time. So does hiding it. Not really sure what to do there. Every time I'm in a bind it seems to give her pleasure seeing me hurt, regardless of the effect it may have on the kids.
Any words of wisdom/encouragement are always appreciated.
Well yesterday was interesting. Earlier last week W had asked about getting the kids early one day I had them. I pushed back and told her I wanted to get together with my parents this weekend and at the end of hashing out details on when, I ended up inviting over along w/ the kids. I didn't ask her again all week. She texted to ask when to bring the kids over yesterday afternoon and in my response I asked if she was staying at all since her text made it sound like she was just dropping them off. She replied and said she'd stay for a little bit.
She ended up staying for the entire time my parents and sister were here, seemingly having fun. She even brought some food my mom had requested. This was the first time she had seen my family since around Labor Day last year when my parents came to visit right after I moved. The were even group texting and sharing photos after.
I have no idea what is happening aside from the usual wavering back and forth.
dmoy, not to burst your bubble, but it was likely guilt over the hurtful words that caused her to fix your shirt. Most WAWs will try to continue to be "nice" until the D is final. I am seeing more and more WAW behavior where they want the D to be as smooth as possible, and will bend over backwards to grease the runway to get the D through as painlessly as possible.
Remember, WAWs are trying to be happy. That is their ultimate goal. Dwelling on D proceedings/filings/briefs/court appearances aren't what makes them happy.
When my neice left her husband for another guy, she was trying to be as nice as possible until she got the final D decree. Once she did she was as happy as a lark to move on with the new guy.
Believe nothing she says (even her hurtful words) and only 1/2 of what she does (fixing your shirt this morning).
Entirely possible. Trying not to read too much into it.
But what's the play? If they want to be happy and appease just to get D finalized it seems like there's nothing that can really be done. Sometimes DB really seems a lot like a wing and a prayer.
Detach, fix yourself, and
hope that W sees the change and decides to change course. But from the sounds of it, most of the time this doesn't happen and maybe it's more dumb luck. In the end you come through with change to yourself but that's like getting a consolation prize, tbh. "You're now single again and your kids will grow up in a broken home, but at least you feel better about yourself!"
Not trying to be negative, just realistic. Life isn't all unicorns and rainbows.
So you are looking to do something that will GUARANTEE your W stays with you? Good luck.
What DBing does is increase the chance that she will reverse course and come back to the MR. But yes you are right, it is just hope, there is no guarantee. I don't know what the percentage but I can tell you that the percentage of LBSs that move to R through pursuit, pressure, and the like is minuscule. Probably in the single digits at best.
DBing, done right, increases the odds your WAS will come around. But even that is just a chance, not a guarantee. The only thing guaranteed in this life are death and taxes. Not necessarily in that order.
Well yesterday was interesting. Earlier last week W had asked about getting the kids early one day I had them. I pushed back and told her I wanted to get together with my parents this weekend and at the end of hashing out details on when, I ended up inviting over along w/ the kids. I didn't ask her again all week. She texted to ask when to bring the kids over yesterday afternoon and in my response I asked if she was staying at all since her text made it sound like she was just dropping them off. She replied and said she'd stay for a little bit.
She ended up staying for the entire time my parents and sister were here, seemingly having fun. She even brought some food my mom had requested. This was the first time she had seen my family since around Labor Day last year when my parents came to visit right after I moved. The were even group texting and sharing photos after.
I have no idea what is happening aside from the usual wavering back and forth.
dmoy, in my estimation this is a very encouraging sign. Most WASs want nothing to do with the LBS's family. You are right to attach significance to this. However, this changes nothing you should be doing. Nothing. I just told another poster here that the worst thing you can do when your WAS starts to show signs of interest, is to start pursuing, pressuring, talking about the MR, etc. See this is progress, which should encourage you to continue to detach, GAL, 180, and be the best you can be.
Don't ignore it, but don't read too much into, yet.
dmoy, in my estimation this is a very encouraging sign. Most WASs want nothing to do with the LBS's family. You are right to attach significance to this. However, this changes nothing you should be doing. Nothing. I just told another poster here that the worst thing you can do when your WAS starts to show signs of interest, is to start pursuing, pressuring, talking about the MR, etc. See this is progress, which should encourage you to continue to detach, GAL, 180, and be the best you can be.
Don't ignore it, but don't read too much into, yet.
This was my take as well. I think I mentioned previously that she didn't want to come to my niece's 1 year birthday party about 6 weeks ago but then she was ok coming over this weekend. Maybe she thought there'd be more family at the other party. I definitely get the uncomfortableness. I'd be uncomfortable around her family as well.
My niece's birthday was back when things were good, like 2 days before the blow up where I pushed R and she told me she didn't feel the same way. It's been 6 weeks since that now.
Thanks for validating my suspicion though on the WAS/LBS family thing. I didn't try to pressure or pursue at all yesterday. Nor talk about R at all. I did however act cool and non attached. I made sure to thank her for everything and show appreciation, given that was one of the things she complained about 6 weeks ago.
She also made a point to show off her house last night when I went back with her and the kids. Apparently she spent the last day and a half with the kids cleaning every room. I, in turn, made a point to compliment her and a job well done.
Just gonna keep on keeping on.
Entirely possible. Trying not to read too much into it.
But what's the play? If they want to be happy and appease just to get D finalized it seems like there's nothing that can really be done. Sometimes DB really seems a lot like a wing and a prayer.
Detach, fix yourself, and hope that W sees the change and decides to change course. But from the sounds of it, most of the time this doesn't happen and maybe it's more dumb luck. In the end you come through with change to yourself but that's like getting a consolation prize, tbh. "You're now single again and your kids will grow up in a broken home, but at least you feel better about yourself!"
Not trying to be negative, just realistic. Life isn't all unicorns and rainbows.
REPOSTING THIS RESPONSE IN CASE YOU MISSED IT
So you are looking to do something that will GUARANTEE your W stays with you? Good luck.
What DBing does is increase the chance that she will reverse course and come back to the MR. But yes you are right, it is just hope, there is no guarantee. I don't know what the percentage but I can tell you that the percentage of LBSs that move to R through pursuit, pressure, and the like is minuscule. Probably in the single digits at best.
DBing, done right, increases the odds your WAS will come around. But even that is just a chance, not a guarantee. The only thing guaranteed in this life are death and taxes. Not necessarily in that order.
Well yesterday was interesting. Earlier last week W had asked about getting the kids early one day I had them. I pushed back and told her I wanted to get together with my parents this weekend and at the end of hashing out details on when, I ended up inviting over along w/ the kids. I didn't ask her again all week. She texted to ask when to bring the kids over yesterday afternoon and in my response I asked if she was staying at all since her text made it sound like she was just dropping them off. She replied and said she'd stay for a little bit.
She ended up staying for the entire time my parents and sister were here, seemingly having fun. She even brought some food my mom had requested. This was the first time she had seen my family since around Labor Day last year when my parents came to visit right after I moved. The were even group texting and sharing photos after.
I have no idea what is happening aside from the usual wavering back and forth.
That's good news. Keep "doing what works". Good luck.
REPOSTING THIS RESPONSE IN CASE YOU MISSED IT
I did read it. I just chose not to reply.
The post you had replied to was me just being grumpy that day. I've moved on, ergo your reply didn't warrant a response anymore. It was valid, but I had already come to that conclusion.
Thank you for the reenforcement though.
I read some of your thread a few weeks back which was the reenforcement I needed at the time. Your situation still good? I'm behind on reading here.
Had an interesting curve ball thrown tonight. W told me that her landlord needs her out by the end of July. I tried to empathize as best I could and told her I understand. Told her that she was right to be frustrated at the situation. I tried to not jump in and "fix" the problem but did let her know to ask if she needed anything to let me know because it wasn't fair for her or the kids to suffer because of this. It seems like based on some of the empathy study I've done, it was working because it played out similar to some of the examples in the book I had previously mentioned in this thread.
Hopefully this at least helped connect. She's not the best communicator, and naturally this happened over text. I made the best I could of the situation so I guess we'll see what happens. Maybe she'll say something at church in the morning.
On the subject of communication, I had a funny (sad, actually) instance of where D6 picked up on W's bad communication this week. At drop off one morning I could tell W was ready to be done with the kids. I asked the kids after W left what happened and why W was upset, if they weren't listening. They said they were and weren't listening that morning. Then D6 said W got mad because she didn't put on her shoes to leave. "Mommy didn't ask me to put my shoes on. She asked me if those were the shoes I was going to wear today!"
Just an example of her non-direct communication and even the kids know.
I calmly explained to D6 that mommy sometimes isn't the best about being clear what she needs and that D6 should know that she needs to get her shoes on when it's time to leave so that Mommy doesn't have to ask. My poor kids are even confused sometimes. Hopefully they can at least learn to ask for what they need.
With W having to move again, do I have any options here? I'm assuming mentioning of letting her move in with me, even if just for the sake of cohabiting to get finances in order, give the kids stability, etc is probably off the table?
Not really sure what play I have, if any. Though standing back and seeming someone passive while she has to find another place to live doesn't feel right either.
Kids may have let is slip that W may have already found a new place to rent. I'm guessing at this point the ship very well may have sailed on her ever considering R.
Guess I should expect to get served with papers in the next month.
Unfortunately due to mixed signals it's so hard to tell. Lack of communication doesn't help at all either. Supposedly still getting put on her dental insurance in a few weeks so I have no idea what's going on.
No figuring W out. Back to working on ME.
Papers came Monday. She's really pushing for no-fault as a cheap alternative and threatening Absolute (infidelity, I'm assuming) if I don't sign papers. What's interesting on that front is that I think the whole vow renewal / moving back in equates with condonation which then nullifies adultery as fault.
I don't understand what the rush is aside from possibly being pushed by friends/family to finalize things.
You have a lawyer, right?
You have a lawyer, right?
Not in-state. I need to find a new one that practices here since we moved. Don't really have the cash to load up another retainer either.
You have a lawyer, right?
Not in-state. I need to find a new one that practices here since we moved. Don't really have the cash to load up another retainer either.
As I like to tell LBS that have been served....you can't afford to NOT have a lawyer.
Served with D filing last Tuesday. Handled it much better than I would have 6 months ago which means I'm changing for the better. Still searching for an in-state attorney. W seems unwilling to talk even about settlement terms. It's a hard situation given she's very non-confrontational. Rather than have a hard conversation it's easier to send papers and seemingly avoid the problem. Unfortunately that just makes it costly for everyone.
Sorry to hear that Dmoy. What do you mean "W seems unwilling to talk". Have you spoken with her recently? She doesn't seem like she'd respond well to pressure, but if you've been laying off the pressure then it may be worth a talk with her.
Have you spoken with her recently?
Almost every day. I have 2 kids and we split custody. I'm grateful that I get to see my kids almost 7 days a week to some extent due to the arrangement. Unfortunately that's about the only time I see W but don't really have an opportunity to talk because the kids are around. Nor am I really afforded the ability to "go dark."
I can tell when she's uncomfortable because she starts getting really short at pickup and dropoff... in a hurry to get the kids and leave to avoid any further conversation.
She sent me a settlement agreement 3 months ago. Never said anything, just got it in the mail from her attorney. She later called and brought it up. I told her what points I disagreed with-- mostly asking for more money that I can give her every month, and asked why she never sat down to discuss with me. She made some excuse about how she wanted to but never had time.
I said I wasn't sure if I could sign it and she said she'd have her attorney edit it. Instead I got served papers 3 months later where she wants even more money.