Part 10 Post from last thread:
Thanks guys, this weekend was enlightening. I found I just don't have it in me anymore. On the way home WH did a really petty thing, he only filled the family van's gas tank half way because he feels our nanny shouldn't be doing "extra trips" ie., her own shopping and stuff while just with the baby. I've never had a problem with this before and I don't think it's worth losing a really good child care provider. We are wealthy people and she is not, if she wants to run a few trips during the day then I have no problem with it. I told him to turn around and I would fill it all the way up and I did. At the last second WH said, "Fine, you're in charge of filling of the van for now on." I just looked at him and shook my head. I then said, "We need to talk tonight." He agreed.
So tonight's the night. I am letting him know I've consulted a lawyer and will be paying my retainer and filing as soon as they paperwork is ready. I've turned every stone and been extremely patient. This gives him a chance to get how own lawyer and we can sit down and start working through the financials and stuff. He is still the wayward, narcissistic guy who cheated on me and I don't see him changing anytime soon. So I need to do this to protect myself and really start healing. Because one thing is clear, one cannot heal when living with a remorseless cheater, it's just rug sweeping at this point.
I plan on keeping this matter-of-fact and business like. I don't care to argue or try to "make him understand" the whys. He knows the whys and if he doesn't then that's my answer. I can't force him to feel empathy or be caring person, I can just make sure I emulate this for my children and hope for the best. A small part of me is nervous but another part of me is completely and utterly exhausted. I'm just done. I'm walking away.
Good luck on things tonight. I would say I'm sorry about the end result but you seem ok with it and ready to move on. I wish you all the best.
Praying, sending hugs, good vibes, positive universal thoughts, and all of the other good things to you tonight. (((( Sara ))))
Sara, I'm married to someone very similar to yours. I hope it goes well. It would be helpful if he agrees it is time and he wants it too. As you know with narcissists, there is no limit to what they will do to try to maintain control. My lawyer suggested trying to agree on a financial mediator (my kids are older and he has largely abandoned them) since custody is not an issue. I knew mine would cut bait and run from the beginning (he was already emotionally detached from the kids and it is what his own dad did) so I told him from the get go that he could see the kids whenever he wanted. My D is in her first year of college across the country so the only issue is my HS freshman son. H sees him maybe 4 hours a month but several months hasn't seen him at all.
I still have to deal with games over trying to control money, but for the most part he leaves me alone. You seem like a strong woman and I bet your H is a little intimidated and afraid of you as mine is. I think this helps stop him from behaving worse.
He's unaffected, he discussed separation of finances and how custody will be split. I lost my cool near the end and started to spew. I told him his actions will affect the kids for the rest of their life. He appears not to care or simply doesn't believe it. I am back to not sleeping and just filled with rage. I regret marrying this man and choosing this man to be the father of my children.
Sara, I am so sorry. This is going to be difficult either way you spin it, and of course you have hurt, rage, and resentment! You will get through this, I promise you that. Perhaps you have already been through the hardest part, and that was making the decision. ... I am gonna call BS on your H tho; he is a narcissist and has the most fragile ego, so I have no doubt last night he was protecting his face/ego. Don't believe a word he says and keep your focus on the best choices for you and the kids. You can expect him to be callus and mean, and you can also expect him to yo-yo back to regret/remorse when he sees you are serious this time. He has done that before, but you did not feel it was genuine or good enough. ... Please continue to look objectively at your long term goals. You will get through this, I know it! You are so strong!!!
Giant hugs!!!
Blu
Hi Sara, I am so sorry that you are going through this.
You have been going through this for a while and i vet you are tired of of all so as Blu says just focus on you and your kids and let your H figure it out for himself.
(((Sara)))
Hi Sara,
I am so sorry you ended up here... You have tried so very, very hard and fought for your M and your children, but I understand that you don't feel that you have it in you anymore.
All you can do from here, is continue to work on yourself, be the best Sara you can be, and GAL as much as possible.
Thank you friends, my tank is empty or else I would post back individually. But huge hugs to you all.
Something weird happened today. I got off work a little early to go pay my lawyer to start the process and I caught WH riding his bike past my work. It was so odd, he looked at me while I was waiting at a red light and nodded at me. I just stared because he had to drive all the way across town and was in an out-of-the-way place to pass by my job. He had to have planned to purposely drive past my job. WTH?
I paid my retainer and filing fee today. My lawyer sent me home with a huge amount of paperwork to complete, both WH and I are worth a good chunk of money and I am buried under itemization. Between debt and assets I think this will take me the better part of the week at least. I am sitting at the dining room table muddling through this and WH is in his man cave playing video games, nothing new. The friends that I have informed about the D are all supporting me. I think most of them are breathing a sigh of relief.
But I am sad...so very, very sad. My dream is crumbling and fading away and I am just letting myself grieve. I bury myself in work and then come home to bury myself in my kid's care. By the end of the day I am numb and drained. GAL presents a challenge as childcare after work falls squarely on my shoulders and I work 50-60 hours a week. I thought if I was wise and picked my husband carefully, watched his behaviors for a few years before agreeing to marriage (making sure we agree on goals) that I would have avoided all this heartbreak. But no, life has a way of becoming slippery and somewhat uncontrollable. So I am going to just let these waves of sadness pass over me and deal with my own heartbreak.
Sara, you tried everything you could. You reached that decision because after so many attempts he didn't change. You had no choice left. He was not respectful or remorseful, it's not possible to live with someone who is not treating you with respect or still make you responsible for his decision to be unfaithful. Until he has this kind of mind set there is not way of building/rebuilding something solid for the long term.
Now I am going to tell what I notice through the years of seeing a few men (mostly physicians) leaving their wives or divorcing them for much younger women, at first they were happy, very happy, they loved that new freedom until reality started to come down upon them. Most of them if they left their wives for someone else, got dumped after a few months or left their new relationship because the la la land disappeared. Also what a wife is willing to accept because of their common past, a new "woman" might not be so eager to do so. And having the kids for a few days by yourself is totally different from a few hours with a fridge full of already made meals, laundry done, homework done...
Usually it takes them between 1 year and 3 years to realize what they had and how stupid they were. Real guilt and regrets come slowly, they need to live through the negative consequences of their actions and the harsh reality of their new daily life to become aware of the mess they created.
A few went back to their wives if they were still "available" and willing to give them another chance under certain conditions, some discovered that their spots were taken and they were not missed. And what happened to their former wives, after sadness and grief they became quite happy with their new life, because they didn't have to deal with that constant negativity and walking on eggshells anymore.
Sara, focus on getting the better deal you can on the process you are engaged in, you might get divorced or you might not, life is something always changing but don't settle for less than you deserved. We respect courage and chase what is worthy not the opposite.
One day at a time, don't give up and keep up your boundaries, very tough but that's the best you can do for the long term.
((hugs)))
Hi PsySara,
I am so sorry for what you are going through. I'm reading your sitch and still on old posts. Maybe I'm not the best person to give advice. I believe you guys are in love but then your husband is so frustrated with what it had become before he had the A. I understand you are both muslims but not sure how you handle this. I had a friend who grew up in strict churches and she got too religious compared to her H. The husband grew up in similar churches so when they got married they just both continued to follow the strict church rules. The husband started getting interested in women who wear certain types of dressing but was too scared to communicate abt how he didn't really like the strict code as he felt it made her less attractive and older. He would wear trendy clothes and the wife never noticed his unhappiness. She only realized when she found some texts between him and the OW. It was a shock to her to learn what turns him on is things against his church dressing code. She got rid of the flared, dull skirts, very loose tops and head cover. The H was happy and they both discussed what changes they can make in terms of dressing and lifestyle.
I think with faith it's always good to discuss so that you are both comfortable and happy. Some faiths are not based on what we choose and some Hs or Ws fear being labeled and quietly follow rules so as to be seen as good spouses. This is especially so when one grow up in the faith (or church because doctrines and rules differ a lot ) and hence might not personally have made a choice. This might not be relevant to you but his interest in the OW seems not to be because he loves her but he seems to be running away from some limitations. Is the woman of similar faith and dressing? How strict is she about rules related to faith?
When I look at what you wrote I think there is something in the marriage he is unhappy about and he didn't start with the A. He first hurried himself in work. It might be things he feels you might not want to change (possibly related to how strict you follow faith related rules).
I feel you have to be open minded and ask him what really got him so unhappy. I am a Christian and I believe there are basic faith doctrines which are important but as to following church rules you should be open to make changes that make both of you happy without considering how your extended family feel. I have some friends who followed strict church rules and the Hs felt suffocated by the rules and started to look for fun outside.
Sky,
It's taken me some time but I've really started to detach. Or maybe apathy has become the more applicable term. I can't really find much love left in me for WH, he's just trampled all over any bond I may have had to him. One thing is for sure, it's like he's suddenly come into focus and I am scraping the barrel to find any reason to even give him a second chance, even if he did all the things I need.
Lovely,
You're right that WH has been unhappy even before the affair but your reasons are inaccurate. WH likes to make big goals and plans but does not have the follow through. While we were getting to know each other he said he always wanted a wife that wore hijab, that was focused on the basic tenets of our religion without being hard core, someone who would work together with him to raise faithful children. And children, he wanted oodles of them. After we married he wanted us to pray together so I did. But after a few months he stopped praying as much and I just continued alone. Children came along and he really dropped the ball. He would practically beg me for babies but then I had extremely difficult pregnancies which were high risk. He in turn mentally checked out leaving me to suffer alone. For example, I had a huge bleed while pregnant with DD and he asked if he could nap before taking me to the ER because he was coming off a call. I was going to drive myself but he knew that would look bad so he took me after all. Friends and family noticed and were appalled, I chalked it up to father-to-be anxiety. I spent the nights awake with the babies, dealt with their day-to-day care and he would have moments of being very connected to them but then return to playing video games for hours on his days off and leaving me to single parent. He's a good playmate but not a consistent father.
Throughout the years he would say how we need to go to the mosque more, get the kids involved more in the Islamic community but then would do...nothing. I would get them all dressed up for our holidays and he would buy them sweets and yummy food but still just haphazardly practice our religion. Over and over again he would have these grand goals of the kids memorizing Quran(known as a hafiz and very respected) of them spending 2 years in strict Islamic school etc., etc., I would maintain a more moderate goal of just teaching them basics. On the surface he would want a very practicing household but he never consistently practice.
I wore hijab before I even met him. He was very focused on the fact that I wore hijab and kind of showed me off to his family and friends. He always bragged that I never drank alcohol (strictly forbidden in Islam) and wasn't "loose" like people expected of a Western woman. My point is this, WH doesn't know what he wants anymore. I removed hijab earlier this year after someone threatened me in the presence of my child and frightened her. I dress very classy and modern, my hair is done professionally and every one at works compliments my appearance. I appear much younger than 40 years (people usually guess me around 28-30) and I am slim and petite. I could have been my WH's fantasy woman but he cheated because he craves novel things. He likes to feel like someone's savior and when that newness wears off he seeks something new-er. Since I have known him he had entertained multiple hobbies, lifestyles and makes BIG plans career wise but never follows through.
I'm not saying he is not smart or ambitious, I am saying he simply never does the necessary things to make his BIG dreams come to fruition. He acts like a teenager still trying to find himself but this...whatever...has been consistent for the 10 years I've known him. I kept assuming he would grow up and mature, stupid me thought he would grow.
So yes, WH was unhappy before the affair but I think he's been unhappy since before we met. I think he wants an idea of being a family man who is this hardcore Muslim but the reality is not as glamorous. Sorry to write a book but this has been something I've been turning over in my head for years now.
Sara, be very careful, every time he feels he is in a hot spot, he changes for a few days then revert to his old behavior. That's just plain manipulation.
Changes take time, weeks, months or even years.
Set up boundaries and enforce them. If he is really serious he will accept the boundaries and understand your point of view. Don't bend!
And what happened to their former wives, after sadness and grief they became quite happy with their new life, because they didn't have to deal with that constant walking on eggshells
That's me!
I doubt your H was actually that religious - he may have wanted a religious wife because it made him look good, or because he thought you would be subservient. But narcissists hate to do things they don't want to do, and the actual work of being religious was probably boring to him.
Bear his need to "look good" in mind as you negotiate this divorce - you can use it to get cooperation. "I know that you really want our kids to go to college, so how about we both contribute X amount to a college fund?"
Also - unless you think he's dangerous, insist on him taking the kids at least two nights a week. You need time to GAL.
As for him riding by your work - be prepared for him to accuse you of having an affair. They think if they can do it, you could do it. I bet he was spying on you for that purpose.
Take the emotion out of it. The more you chastise him the worse the negotiations will go. Act as if this is a good thing for him "I know you'll be happier this way" and act as if you assume he will be a good father (but protect yourself privately by assuming the opposite),
Btw - I'm with you on the nanny gas situation! I'll never understand how people can treat their childcare providers so poorly!
Thanks Sara I get it. I think he is or has been unhappy and looking for something to excite him. IC would have helped but since he doesn't want there is nothing you can do. Just keep focusing on yourself and your 3 kids. It is welll
Sara, be very careful, every time he feels he is in a hot spot, he changes for a few days then revert to his old behavior. That's just plain manipulation.
Changes take time, weeks, months or even years.
Set up boundaries and enforce them. If he is really serious he will accept the boundaries and understand your point of view. Don't bend!
I have to second this. it's a notable cycle, and you always give him the chance, for good reasons of course. But it is clear after so many times it is manipulation and not permanent changes. He does enough to get back in the door, can't do an ounce of the work to stay in, then he cycles.
I had a dream for my family too. I wanted an intact happy home. I think we all did. We can do our part, but it really does take two. What you have and will have may not be in your life plan, but it doesn't have to be miserable. Your life will be great and so will your kids, even if it looked different than you could have ever imagined.
Sky,
I've literally given up any hope he will change. With each passing day I feel my rage and disgust towards him building. This has been an enlightening 2 years. I am finding myself relieved when WH is not in my company and seething when he is simply "here" but not engaged with the family.
KML,
So far I've been cool and matter-of-fact. I keep my rage carefully sequestered in my head and remember what the end-goal is here, getting a good life for my children. I would probably laugh in his face if he accused me of having an affair and might even fuel the fire. I would not deny but rather question why he even cares? After all, he's made is crystal clear that he was NEVER happy in our marriage, that I am a nasty harpy who brow beat him daily.(insert sarcastic expression and violins playing sadly)
Lovely,
Exactly. He has made his search for pleasure and "happiness" completely on external factors. While some describe their spouses jumping into a MLC I feel WH has kind of always been kindling one.
Ginger,
Since I've already sunk 4K into the D process I think it safe to say he would have to do something HUGE and consistent for me to let go of the trigger. Right now my finger is firmly on the trigger and as soon as I complete the financial part it will be pulled.
So just some journaling. Yesterday I came home to WH helping DD with her homework, very out of the ordinary. She asked to go swimming and he said he would take her after her homework. Later DS4 came and asked to go swimming too, he said WH told "Maybe, we'll see." I figured he would hide out in his office or something until the kids were bathed and put to bed. You can imagine my surprise when WH comes out in his bathing suit (kids were watching iPad with headphones on so did not see or hear him) and says he's going swimming alone. I spoke quietly and asked him about his promise to take them out. He kind of mumbled that they didn't seem to care and he went out without them. Shortly thereafter DD looked up and saw WH swimming outside. She was very upset so I dressed the kids in bathing suits and took them out as well.
Kids swam for about an hour and then I brought them in for showers. WH bathed them and handed them off to me to dry and dress. (he was already in the shower) I am just gobsmacked that he is so unbelievably selfish and immature. Who promises to take their kids swimming and then goes alone?? Today WH was very late getting home. I calmly asked him to communicate when he was planning to come home late so I could plan accordingly. (there are days I go to the hair parlor and need to know when he will be home on time to relieve the nanny, else wise I need to be home on time.) He snapped "I am always late on my first day back to work, also on call some days! You just need to accept that." I just lifted an eyebrow and walked away.
I harnessed my anger and went to the dining room table and started chipping away at the financial stuff. I casually asked him about the car insurance amounts as well as the cell phone. He asked if I was doing the D paperwork and I said yes. He just nodded and said he would get that info. Other than that nothing to report, just living in this weird limbo and taking it day by day.
The sadness still catches me off guard and I have to actively work to focus on my tasks at hand. I wish this wasn't my life.
I totally understand your anger and disgust. The positive side of filing is that finally you are showing your teeth and sending him the message, Enough is enough, I won't tolerate your lies and your disrespectful behavior anymore. The strong Sara is back.
Did he mention moving out soon?
From what I have witnessed from my friends who went trough that ordeal, buckle your seat belt and get ready for a wild ride when you will start to make demands that won't go his way. Stay calm and handle it as a business deal, think about everything, from what the kids will need now to until college. It's very difficult/almost impossible to change a divorce settlement once it has been signed by a judge. Also you might be entitled to be reimbursed (50%) of the money he might have spend on selfish spendings or the OW.
Don't let him intimidated you during the process, keep your mind on the finish line.
Don't forget to eat some dark chocolate, it helps a lot when feeling down...
Watch a few comedies, stay away from drama, you need to increase your endorphins.
Get a massage!
Brush the toilet bowl with his toothbrush, lol!
Fill the fridge with whatever he doesn't like but you and the kids love to eat.
Have the internet having issues when he plays video games if they are online games.
Who promises to take their kids swimming and then goes alone?
Someone immature who thinks the kids aren't paying him sufficient attention.
As for the paperwork - be prepared to do almost all of it yourself. Even when WASs file, they seem to expect everything will magically fall into place with no effort on their part.
Resist being resentful over it, just play it like you're helping him "get free". Use emotional aikido to get his cooperation.
Don't forget to eat some dark chocolate, it helps a lot when feeling down...
Watch a few comedies, stay away from drama, you need to increase your endorphins.
Get a massage!
Brush the toilet bowl with his toothbrush, lol!
Fill the fridge with whatever he doesn't like but you and the kids love to eat.
Have the internet having issues when he plays video games if they are online games.
Love this!!!
Sky,
Thank you for the suggestions. This last week I got back on my sleep aid (lots of nightmares robbing me of good sleep) and got my hair done. Most of the time I am ok but have these moments where I feel my heart break again. But I remind myself that I've earned my out of this marriage and will likely be in a lot better place a year from now.
kml,
I knew before I started the process he would wait until the last minute and even then do bare minimum. So far I've asked him two simple questions about finances and he has yet to get me the info. Whatever. Emotional aikido sounds like an awesome idea.
BluWave,
I giggled reading that.
So..it goes. I continue to move forward and WH continues more of the same. He came home from work today, did his prayer and then went and took a nap...at 5pm. (rolls eyes) I fed and bathed the kids, cleaned the house, did laundry, etc., Most of the time I am able to keep my mind occupied. But these weekends where I am limited to GAL as it's difficult to take 3 small children out alone takes it toll mentally. I don't want to spend the rest of my life single but I also don't want a step parent in my children's life. And this is where the rage steps in. WH unilaterally decided to destroy our marriage and in effect, raising my children in the most statistically sound way.I have these waves of hate wash over me sometimes when I look at him. Lazy, it's the laziness I despise. This absolute unwillingness to fight for his kid's future. The @sshole.
Sara,
All the emotions you are going through are perfectly ok, you are grieving the end of your marriage the way you thought it was or could have be. Your anger/rage is justified 100%, don't hold it inside yourself, find a safe way to let it find its way outside, go for a power walk, kickboxing, yoga (great to find inside peace), aerobic, tennis (I imagined his face and her face on the balls... Had a great summer league, lol), swim ... find your own way, it might be something else.
It's tough to raise young kids by yourself, but I promise you, it will get better, your kids will grow and will do things by themselves and will help you. You will develop an incredible bond with them. Look around, most probably you have friends who are ready to help you if you ask them. Gal doesn't necessarily mean to go out every week end, you can have your friends coming over and have a Pot luck and do the clean up after with you or they can watch your kids while you do thinks uninterrupted in the house.
Big hugs
You're right Sky, I need to start running again. While it wasn't a panacea it did help me feel more energetic. I do have friends more than willing to come hang out and I need to start reaching out to them again.
Today I slpet in until 7 am (insert shocked expression here) and fed the kids, fed and cared for the critters, and dressed the kids for Sunday school and drove across town to drop them off. Afterward I stopped at McDs and sat in the car with the baby and shared some mcnuggets. Afterwards I picked up the older kids from the mosque and then had the boys hair cut. They look like little men again.
I sent some pics of the boys to WH and he texted back a thank you and then informed me he was on his way home. He came home and then reparked the vehicles (needed to make room for his car) and then went to the side room to pray. He still barely engages the kids, when he does it's only for discreet periods of time and not for the night. Oh well, same ole same ole
It might take a while (months) for him to reengage with the kids if he does, right now his mind is focused on himself only. Most probably his thoughts are very conflicted, in one hand he is getting his freedom something he "dreamed" to have but on the other hand now since you filed for divorce some explanations will have to be given to people when they will ask him or you "why?" and "Is he ready to face others and assume his past actions that destroyed his marriage and de facto the life of his kids?
It's one thing to blame your spouse for your unfaithfulness in the comfort of your own home but saying the same to others who knows you both is a totally different thing.
Do you think that he cares what people will say or think about him?
just wrote a long post to you, worried that it might be too long and then it vanished.
Okay I will be brief now b/c obviously the universe is telling me to.
[quote=PsySara]Sky,
Thank you for the suggestions. This last week I got back on my sleep aid (lots of nightmares robbing me of good sleep) and got my hair done. Most of the time I am ok but have these moments where I feel my heart break again.
I have awakened with bad nightmares and breathlessly feeling my heart pound. Thank God for sleep aids. I think I have had what I assume are panic attacks, which I've never had before. Pretty crappy experiences. Do what you need to do for self care.
But I remind myself that I've earned my out of this marriage and will likely be in a lot better place a year from now.
I am 100% certain of this^^^.
So..it goes. I continue to move forward and WH continues more of the same. He came home from work today, did his prayer and then went and took a nap...at 5pm.
thank God my h is on the tundra, and I don't have to see the indifference or weirdness or whatever the disorder is called, in my face.
I don't want to spend the rest of my life single but I also don't want a step parent in my children's life.
Sara, this^^ is you borrowing trouble from tomorrow. Be here now.
Life will be better in a year (sooner, really. When he's out of the house, the tension and in your face piece, will be improved).
And this is where the rage steps in. WH unilaterally decided to destroy our marriage
yes he did. And it stinks. It's supremely unfair. No question.
I'm in a DivorceCare group which is great. A woman there said to "use the anger as a call to action." Which has helped me a lot.
Otherwise I would feel physically sickened by my anger.
and in effect, raising my children in the most statistically sound way. I have these waves of hate wash over me sometimes when I look at him.
I had some big hate moments too. First time in my life, and there it was, hatred aimed at the father of my kids.
Some folks find the hate helpful to transition from their profound sadness.
I would go back and forth, but the good news is that I really do spend less time in each. (Really).
Getting to "meh" is a goal of mine and it is beginning to take hold periodically. The "horrible moments" are fewer and farther between.
All I can do is stand at the sidelines urging you on, while fighting my own battle.
At my lowest points this past year, including when I really thought I might be dying, I began to have this knowing belief that I was being tested and that if I did not falter too much, a much better life was on the other side of this.
I believe that for both of us.
((( )))
I-since you filed for divorce some explanations will have to be given to people when they will ask him or you "why?"
IMO most people will Not ask him. At least not at work. They will say "oh he's single now" and as long as he's not distracted at work, I'd be shocked if anyone asks.
His family will stick with their blood.
and "Is he ready to face others and assume his past actions that destroyed his marriage and de facto the life of his kids?
Sky, Why would he begin taking responsibility for it now? I'm asking.
If he's anything like every single divorced MD, Lawyer or male military officer I know who,
he will control the message and massage the explanation with ease.
Either with character assassination of the spouse, or with the "we mutually grew apart" blah blah blah.
Given that Sara works in the same field, I would think the neutral version is better. Are you guys at the same hospital or clinic?
It's one thing to blame your spouse for your unfaithfulness in the comfort of your own home but saying the same to others who knows you both is a totally different thing.
there are People who have affairs that feel horrible about it and resolve to change,
versus cheaters who justify their affairs. I really don't think there's much shame.
Unless Sara tells the people who know them both, I don't think her h will tell anyone.
Do you think that he cares what people will say or think about him?
I have read a lot about this ^^
I'll just quote something I read -
"To some extent most people care about what others think. But those with strong moral compasses do the right thing no matter what others think.
Whereas with narcissistic personalities, it's not about doing what is right,
it's about appearing to do what is right. Excessive admiration, attention and accolades are vital."
25 you are entitled to your opinion and I am to mine, so I think the best is to agree to disagree.
I never said that he was ready to take responsibility please read again without jumping to any conclusion.
Did you notice those who are committing acts that are not morally acceptable toward their family usually are withdrawing themselves from others (family, friends...) so they don't have to "talk to them" and sometimes move away so they can start a new life. Did you ever wonder why? They avoid people who have different values/past than them and look for people more like them to connect, why?
Meanwhile it's not because people don't ask questions that they don't think less or have "ideas" or they believe the explanations if any were given.
[quote=skyhigh]25 you are entitled to your opinion and I am to mine, so I think the best is to agree to disagree.
I never said that he was ready to take responsibility please read again without jumping to any conclusion.
I didn't mean to imply you thought that. I was being sarcastic towards her h, not you. Trying to "see it through his eyes" so to speak.
Did you notice those who are committing acts that are not morally acceptable toward their family usually are withdrawing themselves from others (family, friends...) so they don't have to "talk to them" and sometimes move away so they can start a new life.
Yes I noticed.
My h is in Alaska, & I heard my h lie to his new fans about when I was joining him up there. I heard him give a narrative that was so distorted that it was unrecognizable.
Obviously h has justified his choices - or he would not have made them.
Noticing that has not changed anything but yes, I noticed it.
H has a new fan base for his new life. I would not call it "shame" that makes him do this, though maybe.
But perhaps that's me projecting my own values onto him. Because I used to assume he felt shame b/c I sure would if it were ME making a choice to leave the children and m for an adventure.
Especially after decades of what seemed like a strong marriage with a lot of laughs and achievement. It reeks of so much "entitlement" I could literally not relate. So yes I asked why.
My answer thus far is that
H and I do not share the same values (at least not anymore)
and we do not have the same moral compass. If we did, we would not be here.
[b]
Did you ever wonder why? [/b]
Did I ever wonder why? This is not my first time here. And for several years of my life I have wondered why. Years I cannot get back.
I tried to understand what compelled him to make disastrous choices. And then repeat them.
I wracked my brain and tried to get into his brain. I spent time with a DB coach, and MCs and IC's and a chaplain and a priest and going to Retrovaille - trying to understand why and how my h did/felt/thought as he did.
I tried to get into his brain and read meaning into so many things he did or did not do.
I spun in circles asking the same questions in loops.
I'd ask my DB coach and anyone who would listen,
HOW & WHY he could leave our children and me for an adventure. How he could be who I thought he was, AND inflict so much pain on the 4 people who loved him the most.
I think every LBSer here asks why.
As I said, This is not my first time here. But dear God, how I asked why...
Anyhow, a prayer Caroline Myss wrote, resonates with me.
"Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know, and *constant wondering is constant suffering.*
We all try to make sense of terrible things that pain us, in our life.
In the book "Option B", Sheryl Sandberg (the CEO of FB who lost her h suddenly 2 years ago) wrote that: "the most difficult pain to accept, is pain we do not understand."
At some point we all have to learn what we can from it, and then accept it b/c "it just is- regardless of why" - and rebuild with strength and faith.
I am moving forward as best I can, at 57. Wondering "why" about h at this point,
is not in my interest or in my children's interests. They need to see me rebuild a life. I need and want to.
That's my plan.
Sky,
There will be HUGE questions from his family which I have made it clear I am going to be honest. He cares a LOT about how people perceive him. I am sorely tempted to text the nurse at his job, the one he has been snap chatting, and let her know what she's in for. My guess is he is filling her full of nonsense about how his marriage is failing and we've "grown apart" blah blah blah. I want to let her know that he is just chasing a cliched fantasy. But before you say it, I know, detach.
25,
Your story is cautionary to the other DB'ers, even if they come back home that does not mean happily ever after. This is especially true if the WS does not do "the work" and get to the root of their waywardness. I think DB attracts folks who are used to putting in work to get the desired results. Whereas our spouses simply think things should just fall in their laps. The Whys, oh my the Whys. I think even if the WS got to the root of their whys we still would not be satisfied because there is no acceptable "why" to do such a hideous thing to one's family. It would still appear shallow and superficial. I would take a bullet rather than let my children experience the pain of abandonment and uncertainty. Meanwhile our Wayward is more than happy to let them go through this awfulness so they can get their "fix."
My lawyer is awesome, she sent a copy of the petition to me and I just need to come by her office and go over the particulars. She is very efficient and I think this will save me unnecessary costs in the long run. I stayed home from work today (extremely rare occurrence) with a migraine and slept until 2:30! I think it was long overdue as I've been perpetually sleep deprived for about 2 years.
2 years.
Yup, 2 years ago my WH was sleeping with a 21 year old nurse and telling her he wanted to make her his wife. Meanwhile he called me each evening and asked about the kids and my pregnancy. The gall still takes my breath away. On Oct 4, 2015 was my first d-day but not my last. Now WH is chatting up 20-somethings nurses and appearing as if he could not give one iota of care that he will be present for 50% of his kid's lives. That he has committed a capitol offense in our religion and will answer for it in this life or the next.
Dear Sara,
I am glad that you found a lawyer that is efficient, but she is blessed with a very organized and terrific client. Make sure that your kids are well provided in the future, include a monthly or yearly deposit in a college fund under their names by him or both of you, just make sure your are the owner of the account. Also, add that child support/alimony if any should be back up by a life insurance under his name that he has to pay yearly and he should provide you with a proof of it.
All those "details" were provided to me by a very dear friend who went through "a lot" during her divorce, her husband had found his supposed soulmate... but she managed to make sure that "his wife of 25 years" got served first...
Wow your first D-day was October 4th 2015, on October 5th of 2015 it's when I discovered that my WH was back with OW 1 after first DB on June 2015.
I remember how distressed and sick to my stomach when I got the news.
I don't think that telling whatever to that nurse is a good idea since you decided to file anyway. It might get him very angry at you and lower your chances to get a good deal from him during that process, but you might use it as leverage over him if needed later on if he still in touch with her, to get more of whatever you might want from him.
Use what you have on him to gain advantages (kids' custody, alimony, retirement, house, college funds...) since he cares about his reputation (mine is like that too). Look at the long term satisfaction not the short one.
Act/think instead of reacting, tough but you show us that you are very smart and determined. Don't make any decision without taking time to think about the eventual consequences. Have also plans A, B, C, and D and more if needed, be ready for whatever might come your way. Think of it as a chess game.
I had a very good day today, I am blessed with wonderful students, they are making me lose my mind pretty much every day (teenage boys) but they have been a blessing through those years of ordeal, their enthusiasm always got the worst of my sadness in just a few minutes.
Allow yourself to grieve/mourn your relationship and what your life could have been without his bad decisions, it's very important, and then turn your mind/energy to the future and start making plans/changes that will transform your life for the better. You will be amazed to rediscover activities that you used to like or do but you stopped because of him.
Thank you for the suggestions, Sky, writing it all down.
Sigh. How fitting on Oct 4 I go to the CPA and she has agreed to help with the financial affidavit. She appeared shocked that I was filing for divorce as her impression of us when coming in for taxes were of a "perfect couple." I told her I was doing a LOT of acting to present a functional, happy couple when in fact a lot was going on under the surface. She said she will be more than happy to be a go-between if WH is aware of the financial gathering. I told him about the meeting and went over the requirements of paperwork from his end (extensive compared to mine) and how she will gather it all for us and fax it over. This is for a fee of course but not nearly what my lawyer charges per hour.
She asked about who my lawyer was and I showed her the billing state for the retainer and trust and she smiled and said, "Oh she's good, I've seen her work and she's great."
I came home and took care of the kids, WH went and took a evening nap again. (rolls eyes) I asked him beforehand if we could sit down ad go over paperwork and he agreed. After the kids were fed, bathed, homework done and I put them down he stayed in bed with them. I finally came around 8:30 and asked if we could review the paperwork as I was tired. He agreed and I went over line by line the financial stuff. I also brought up the petition and went over some lines I felt were inflammatory and contentious and we discussed how we could rephrase it. I did this on purpose because I do NOT want a long, expensive, drawn out process that will just get us back to square one minus 10-50K each.
I was matter-of-fact and non-emotional and so was WH. Honestly I think he is already moving onto other pastures and is looking forward to being free to play the field in the open. When I look inside I feel some residual pain of rejection but overall just...numb. When I think back on his lies, cheating, pettiness, and immaturity I feel rage but it snuffs out quickly now. I so emotionally exhausted that I don't have the will to resist. Divorce it is, maybe it will be a relief.
Sara... peace upon your heart...
Thank you, Gump.
So some weird developments lately. I've continued to practice DBing for my own mental well being. DBing teaches to try and maintain a friendly collaborative relationship when possible with your partner/ex-partner when children are shared for their health. I'e occasionally offered to cook dinner for WH when tossing stuff together for the kids. I've even joked with him over shared stuff. And he has suddenly started pursuing me very hard. Yesterday we were driving home with the kids and he was asking if we could stop by the bike shop so he could pick up his bike and bring it home, I agreed because it was no big deal.
He looked surprised and asked why I was being so nice. I told him I was just being myself, he commented it had been such a long time since he has seen this side of me and what had changed. I told him that I was no longer stressed out and wondering who he was after, if the other shoe was going to drop. I told him when you are divorcing someone it no is a question if they will cheat again because you are removing that option. HE was very quiet and then we went on with our day.
Today we did a lot together, he came with me to drop the kids off at Sunday school and then we visited some shops, picked the kids up after their classes and then we went shopping. We continued to joke and just talk about regular stuff friends discuss. HE continues to pursue hard but I am very pulled back. I don't return his flirtation and I am keeping an arm's distance from him. I am...puzzled.
Do I sit us down and ask WTF? I am scheduled to start the petition this coming week and then the money starts to flow. Do I put this on hold and see where the pieces fall? Do I temp check and adjust accordingly? There is a Retrouville on the weekend of the 21st, do I throw that out as a plan regardless of starting the D process? My DD has been especially happy and calm seeing her father and I chat like old friends.
One thing is for sure, I have VERY strict guidelines if WH wants to rebuild our marriage. No female "friends" as he has horrible boundaries, the snapchat needs to be deleted or the single female folks removed, and REAL DEEP introspection from WH to get to the "why" he felt it was ok to cheat. I am just sort of meandering around here.
Sara, seems like you've been in the same place many times now. What has suddenly made things different? Read your old posts, you know how this plays out.
Sara
here are a few thoughts. How about you not get ahead of yourself? Your h gave you a very modest "compliment" essentially saying he has only seen a mean side to you until recently when you surrendered to his cheating and gave up on the m.
There was no conflict anymore, so now you wonder if you should retract what you are doing,
and thinking way down the road as if he's being very clear with you AND committed to the marriage
AND promising loyalty and fidelity,
but none of those things are happening. Your d got happy about you two getting along and that reminded you that divorce will be a challenge.
I get that. My kids are much older and there are still affects.
I just don't see what you are basing any second guessing on?
IF IF IF your h gains clarity and has a character transplant, I'll be very enthused and happy for you.
But the scrap he threw you is not a basis for recon. And the only recent time you have
been treated like a human by your h, is now when you are detached AND when money issues are in his face.
Is it possible you are confusing a modicum of "conflict free/crappy treatment free" and a throw away compliment,
with some form of seismic change in your h along with sudden self awareness AND a deep commitment to renewing the m?
As for retrovaille - I got a lot out of it and it was the one time I sensed genuine remorse in my h. Which lasted me over 5 years b/c I'm not sure I saw more than 5-6 minutes afterwards, cumulatively.
So why do you think your h might attend? (I'm not saying he won't, I'm asking why you believe he would.)
Step back, take a breath.
I don't know what you mean by him "pursuing hard" unless it's intimacy. Or he's just relaxed b/c the big elephant in the room is gone, you won't demand fidelity from him anymore and you'll be pleasant. I am not advocating you being unpleasant, - not at all.
I'm just seeing your situation from such a different viewpoint.
I apologize if I'm projecting any cynicism or anything from my own situation. It's always a balancing act between passing on what we have learned versus projecting.)
But your h can speak and remove any cloudy areas or doubts for you.
If you two were to reconcile and really make it long term-
wouldn't you require a ton of clarity from him?
So, no guessing on your end. Not you checking out or arranging Retrovaille but him. Not you thinking about a temperature check but him coming to you from a position of HIS wanting to try again with remorse and deep reflection and the desire to change...
otherwise this is just you second guessing yourself and reading into HIS cake eating and
and MAYBE letting the damaged ego you admit plays a part of this, try to
another bite at the apple so he chooses you, this time?
I know your will ego will heal - but maybe not until if/when you realize that his infidelity was truly - really - honest to God - NOT about you.
Anyway, I see you thinking out all the requirements you would need from him, while also anticipating doing all the heavy marital lifting, which is contradictory to me.
Am I missing something? Seriously, I'm asking.
We are all rooting for you, Sara.
Be cautious +++ "Here we go again..." he pursues you every time you are detaching and disrespect you once you are hooked again...
It takes several weeks for real change to take place. Real guilt and regrets takes months to process and be really sincere.
Don't forget also, even if you reconcile, you will have to deal with the anger once the situation cool off... That's why you need to take your time in that process.
Don't ask any question, stay detached! Keep working on yourself for yourself not for getting him back!
He has to be the one asking to come back/rebuild if that what you might wish upon, and then you can set up your criteria and boundaries. For real change to happen, he has to realize what he is going to lose/ what he has done... he has to be the pursuer and willing to follow your boundaries. If he really wants you back he will ask you what do you want so he can have another chance.
STOP pursuing him and absolutely no reconciliation talks (basics of DB).
Work on claiming back your life and mental sanity, learn to be happy without him (very important), and focus on something else that your marriage.
My apologies for not responding individually, I am posting during the rush of my morning routine. I wanted to update and will return later to address everyone's extremely helpful advice.
Last night I went into WH's man cave to ask a few logistical questions about today. (he is off from work and will be doing a lot of errands)
WH put down his game remote and approached a relationship conversation. In essence he asked would R be possible. I was extremely frank in telling him that I had deep doubts about his ability and willingness to do what was necessary to regain my trust. WH told me he made the biggest mistake of his life by cheating. That he had trouble even looking at me when I was back to my original self (laughing, being silly and gentle) because he realized how deep the pain went from his choices. He said he felt guilty even asking me to reconsider because I looked so light and relaxed recently. He felt like he needed to do the selfless thing for once and let me be free. He said he had noticed I had confidence and had truly let go and now he realized he was losing me forever. Again and again WH asked for me to lay out every single requirement and he would do them all, anything.
During the conversation WH pulled out his phone and deleted his snapchat without me asking and told me to tell him every single time I felt unsafe in our marriage and he would rectify anything he was doing. WH then transferred money into my account to cover the legal retainer fees and said that was so I could continue forward anytime I wanted with the D but to just give him one more chance. We stayed up very, very late and now I am exhausted but overall I feel...neutral. I am not putting y eggs all in this basket. I will continue to fill out the financial affidavit but will let my lawyer to know to hold the submission of the first draft of the petition and will sit back and watch. I will continue to DB in earnest because that has been the one thing to help me stay detached and moving forward.
Feelings? While WH has never done anything so dramatic and said such things I am still feeling very neutral. Thoughts?
I'll give my 2 cents. I follow your thread but don't post often. But the last time I posted, I predicted this.
It's his M.O. and cycle. The only difference is this time he deleted snapchat. Dramatic? Not really. He changes up his words a little each time, you see it as something different, give him a chance, then he pulls the same stuff.
I am certainly not telling you what to do. But this is my observation. This man less than a week ago wouldn't even take your kids swimming but made sure he went. Is he suddenly a changed man who wants to be the husband and father you need him to be?
You are a very smart put together woman. Sometimes it's hard to see things when we are on the inside of situation. And I am afraid from the outside, it certainly seems as if he is playing you. he knows the cycle.
um, yeah...
Would I sound cynical to say it's too much for someone to get a character transplant in a week?
Just a week ago he was a totally self absorbed nasty man (who was only nasty to you b/c HE felt bad??)
a week ago he was a guy who would rather "pray" and ignore his family or take a nap after HE had a hard day.
And now he sees that you might become free, and that means free to attract the attention of another man.
Your dilemma is b/c you obviously want (& hope)for the guy to repair himself and then to rebuild a marriage with him and then to hope the repairs take and last.
You also don't want to get sucker punched anymore, and you'd rather be on your own or in a healthy r with a man who does the sexy thing called "effort" - and for more than a month.
It's a dilemma. Knowing what I know now?? Can't go there.
At a minimum, I'd want him to get intensive individual counseling and since your h portrays the image of some piety, I'd get the helpful kind of cleric to do a whole lot of work with your h.
Not just an IC, and NOT just a cleric, but both.
If you have that "itchy sweater" feeling again, or at all, that's your gut talking. Don't shut that voice down.
You're not "crazy" or a "controlling b1tch" or " too demanding" - to want and expect and deserve a man who means & keeps his vows.
Good grief. And good luck in whatever you choose.
We are rooting for you.
(((Sara)))
I know I can rely on 25, Own, and Sky to be more eloquent and thorough in their responses, so I am gonna just cut to the chase :-) I am calling a big, steaming pile of BULL-CHIT on your H right now. I am surprised by none of this and have been expecting (and waiting) for all of it. I actually expected he would drop to his knees, cry, and beg a little ... Here is the thing, he is only cracking because you are truly detaching and he sees he is losing you. Does he actually feel guilty and remorseful? Will he actually look inside himself and change into the partner you (and the kids) need and deserve? That, I have no idea. I don't think any of us can know that yet. But this here--pursuing and again he is blame shifting (oh Sara, you are actually being nice, I am so surprised, now I can actually consider you an option) BS, is not what I think you are looking for. I think you are looking for a man that is genuinely wanting to change and be better person for his W, kids, and mostly for himself. I think you can only measure that with consistent actions over time. So my advice is to keep forward on your path and do as you are planning. In the mean time, let's see if he decides to do the hard work of looking inside himself and then continuing on that path and staying there ...
Blu
You have to ask yourself, what would sincere effort on his part look like?
Intensive individual therapy.
Regular participation in a men's only SLAA meeting (sex and love addiction 12 step program. Men's only because he doesn't need to be around female sex addicts.).
Full transparency - giving you passwords to his email, phone etc.
I agree with others, his interest once you fully let go is pretty typical. It may not last the week. But if it does, and if you consider taking him back, don't do it until he has met the minimum requirements above and shown consistent change for at least six months.
One more warning - from someone who successfully reconciled with my husband, only to have him go off the deep end again years later: if there is an underlying character defect, true long term change is unlikely.
Be careful +++ He is pulling out the full package, don't fall for it, he is starting to realize that he cannot have his cake and eat it too and he is not happy about that, so the "charming" guy is coming out, how convenient...he knows you, he knows what to say since he did several times before and you BELIEVED him each time. Don't be a fool!
You are looking great because you are finally freeing yourself from his influence and you don't give a ... anymore. You are starting to regain confidence in you and that's fantastic.
You might set up a list of criteria and boundaries... and see if he can follow them for a few weeks/months without trying to negotiate some points and find ways around. Words are something, actions are something else. Aim high! Test him... if you want...You are in charge of your life.
Meanwhile no R talks and no intimacy, you need to find peace because trust me the anger waves are coming soon (again)...
Try to look at your situation from the outside, imagine if someone was telling you that story... what will you think of it?
This reminds me of recurring conversations I have with my teen daughter. No, you can't get back [some privilege she lost] right away by promising that you'll be good from now on. Demonstrate good attitude and good behavior for a few days first, and then you may earn it back.
It's so hard to be knee deep in a situation and see clearly.
Oh Sara, I don't know how I missed your last posts!
This frightens me FOR YOU.
I see you being pulled into his sticky web. I have no feelings for the man, since I don't even know him, EXCEPT all I can think of is the enormous pain he has brought into your home.
I'd love nothing more than for him to become the man you can be happily, SECURELY married to for years to come..... but it would take a LOT of change for me to buy into the BS.
PLEASE be wise and careful. You have too much to offer a man, to settle for less than a trustworthy, loyal, unselfish, kind man who will put your needs above his own.
((((( Sara ))))))
Hope you are doing ok!
Whatever the road you are choosing to follow proceed with cautious. I know that feeling when suddenly you are being appreciated/recognized by your H after years of neglect and/or mental abuse, it fills you with hope and happiness but real change takes time and is another roller coaster.
Taking a break without taking a decision is sometimes beneficial, it helps the emotions to settle down and see the situation under another angle. I remember saying to my H when he was pressuring me to piece (when I told him that I was done and ready to file) that I needed to be left alone mentally and physically but meanwhile he had to follow my boundaries and my criteria if he wanted me to even consider his request but I was sure of nothing and I might still file in 6 months or in 1 year. I resisted his urge of moving on fast... somehow I knew he just wanted to sweep things under the rug and it was not for my best interest for the long term. People change only if they are forced to work on themselves which is painful, it forces them to take a hard look at their past actions, to acknowledge them and instead of blaming others to take full responsibility. That's not something enjoyable... so putting pressure on us to move on with a bundle of promises is a way to avoid to do that work but sadly it will not solve their deep issues for the long term and they will reappear after a while.
Hi PsySara
I've been thinking about you and your sitch, which is tremendously challenging, and this popped into my head yesterday. I may be totally off base so please disregard if it doesn't fit for you.
It occurred to me that WH is conditioning you. I've heard this slogan from another programme - "We teach people how to treat us." It occurred to me that this is what he is doing, whether consciously or unconsciously.
What I mean is that when you're happy, light, take the pressure off, have no expectations/demands of him to piece in an authentic, responsible and committed way, when you basically let him do whatever he wishes, on his schedule, that he rewards you with a declaration of commitment. But when you start laying down the boundaries and expressing frustration at his lack of commitment to helping you heal, when you start bringing up difficult subjects up about what happened etc (I am guessing), he withdraws and shuts down. He rewards you with a glimpse of your dream when you do what he wants, and withdraws it when you don't. It looks like to me he's teaching you how to treat him.
My apologies for the delay in response as well as I can't address each person individually right now as I am solo parenting right now. (WH is on call this weekend)
This week I have continued to be detached and submitting more paperwork to put the divorce in the "launch" position. WH is aware of this and has submitted his paperwork as well. In the meantime he signed us up for Retrouville (after asking me if it would be okay) next weekend. He called my mom and asked her to provide childcare, I am sure she was perplexed as he has never done that before, and she said yes. WH maintains his desire for us to R and I continue to be neutral and tell him my honest thoughts, I am not sure.
This week has been a challenge as we've had guests from out of town, all of the kids have a cold and my work has been very heavy. In the meantime I continue to carve out time for myself and GAL. I had my hair done and will be taking the kids to the fair today with a friend.
WH has been more engaged with the kids but we all know this can be temporary as he's had his "nice" cycles in the past. I am enjoying the easing of my load but not really depending on it to stick. I see WH looking at me for long periods of time and then his face looks pained. I'm not even going to try and mind read what is going through his head. Well, my baby is coughing and the kids are clamoring for breakfast so I better get today started. I'll keep trying to update during my spare moments, lol!
He is really pursuing you... be really cautious...
If he is really having a change of mind about your relationship that only the beginning, he needs to struggle to be able to dig deeper into himself to figure out how to transform himself into a better husband/person.
I am glad that you are finally getting neutral and not spiraling up and down with his mood of the moment. If he is really changing, he might go through a phase of depression (it's tough to acknowledge what you did and take responsibility for it) and withdrawal, during that time, leave him alone, he needs that time to "heal" and figure out things on his own, don't put any pressure on him others than he needs to respect your boundaries.
Hi PsySara,
I'm new here and someone recommended I read your threads. I haven't read them all yet but I can see the similarities in our situations. My husband and I are in our late 30's, my husband is from the Middle East, started out as a good religious man, and then started having affairs and just left for the second time. We have one daughter that my husband has never helped to care for except for starting to take her out for two hours several times per week for two weeks now after I made him sign an informal separation agreement. My husband is also a physician (I think I saw that yours is) and had one serious relationship with a nurse at work among others.
One of your posts sounded particularly familiar - when your husband wanted to take a nap before taking you to the hospital. My husband did the same thing when I was about to have our daughter!
I'm American but have lived in the Middle East as well as traveled in South and Central Asia so I know the culture(s) of those regions. Most of my friends are from that part of the world and all I can say is that situations like ours aren't all that unique. The only difference may be that women in our situations have more options because we live here in the US. Also we may be less likely to involve our families right from the beginning which ultimately probably empowers our husbands because they don't need to worry about the wrath of their parents.
Maybe I'm off target because I haven't read all your posts but I just wanted to say hi and it sounds like we're in the same boat!
He signed us up for Retrouville
To me all the dynamic you describe just sounds crazy. Too crazy to fix in a long weekend.
I think the only hope is for the two of you be in long-term couples counseling, where the counselor really gets to know both of you and your relationship in depth.
Well that was a disaster. I went to Retrouvaille simply to work on our communication, it's supposed to be especially helpful with those who have trouble expressing and processing their emotions. While I tend to be fairly in touch with my emotions and how to regulate my responses I still felt this would be a good exercise for us both.
The first night was going over how to do something called "dialoging" and I felt it was extremely helpful for WH and I to communicate. Initially WH was eager and participating well. However by mid Saturday it was disintegrating at the speed of light. By Saturday evening he stopped participating and wanted to leave. I went to one of the host couples and told them this had ended in disaster and we were worse than when we came on Friday. They sat down with us and tried to reason (primarily with WH) with us. WH basically grudgingly stayed until Sunday afternoon and completed the outward actions but had stopped truly participating. He's back to saying ILYBIANILWY and feels we would be better off divorced.
I am destroyed anew. A lot of Retrouvialle is for piecing couples and I did not consider us piecing yet. But I wanted to be 100% in on the methods so I allowed attachment again. What a mistake. By the last hour there were other couples talking about the benefits they experienced through the weekend intensive. One couple had a WAH and he said he was deciding to turn back to his marriage and participate 100% in rebuilding it. I sat there breaking down in sobs (quite humiliating for someone who rarely displays emotions in public, nonetheless sobbing) while the other couples appeared to be glowing with mutual love.
My friends, I ask you to withhold the 2x4s as I know my mistakes. I am so emotionally spent I have decided to just do nothing for now. I am as fragile as cracked crystal, the smallest pressure will shatter me. I need time to regroup and just breathe. I don't want to continue the divorce, I don't want to piece, I don't want to do anything but take care of my children and lick my wounds.
You just do that.
You're allowed.
Breathe. Indulge yourself. Enjoy your kids. Get off the crazy train.
(((Sara))) I have not 2*4 for you! I cannot even imagine that anyone could. I am so sorry that this happened! The weekend is a long, intense, and emotionally draining experience. So yes, there is no need to take any action. Why? Just recover and take care of you and yours. The rawness will go away with each passing day now.
My H and I went to Retrouvaille 2 years into the piecing process and even after all that time and us both on board, IMO it still felt too soon. While we have completed 90% of the program, we have taken a step back from it. Sometimes we just need to stop fixing everything and simply just be. Just live! You have not been able to just live in so, so long.
Maybe just do that for awhile now.
XOXO
Blu
"licking my wounds" is a phrase I use at least monthly.
Especially when my sisters call about the divorce settlement - so there are no 2 x 4's to give.
We are on Team Sara. And We are all rooting for you.
Reminds me of the old adage: Don't just do something, stand there!
No 2x4's... instead I send you a virtual care package from my local big box home improvement store: a potted agave, a roll of duct tape, a gallon of paint, and a Snickers bar that says "Feisty."
Not much to report. WH has once again retreated into barely looking at me and only mumbles when he does deign to speak to me. I went to the 1st post session alone today, WH was on call and working but chose to have lunch with friends outside than to come to some of the session. (his job is about 100 yards from the post session location)I continue to attend because I want to use the technique elsewhere, like with my children when they get older.
The host couples used the technique with their children as well and it helped immensely with communication. I will say that it was especially embarrassing that I was the only single there, a lot of the couples who came to the weekend intensive were there and looking at me with sympathetic eyes. One couple came up to me and told em they thought I was very brave to continue on.
Brave? Not sure about that but I will agree that I am incredibly stubborn and refuse to call quits until I am at peace with that decision. Right now I am feeling anything but peaceful. I wish I could return to that place where I was when I filed for divorce. Honestly I feel I have been set back to DDay #2 emotionally. I lowered my shields and went into Retrouvaille filled with optimism and enthusiasm. The techniques requires starting attachment and therefore I decided to be vulnerable and brutally honest (spent a LOT of time writing about the changes I need to make in myself). The first part is simply expressing your feelings without judgement towards your partner. WH and I spent Friday evening being taught how to dialog and the difference between a feeling and a thought. By noon on Saturday he broke the rules and turned the dialog into a list of my shortcomings and how he feels we're "too different." So. That didn't exactly pan out, did it?
Since then we are back to square one. He comes home late, barely acknowledges me and retreats to his office to play video games or surf the internet. I spend my evenings feeding, bathing, home work, etc., with the kids. I dread the week days and the weekends. I fantasize about moving away and leaving WH with the kids so he can be forced to be in my shoes and understand what his inactions have done.
Look, I know we are supposed to be all self sufficient and detached and whatnot but I just want to have a partner to live my life with. I don't want to be alone, okay? Do I NEED a man? No, but I pictured my life with a companion to grow old and share our hardships and joys. I am very bitter tonight. I thought this man was my soulmate and never thought I would have to face the choice to be single or have a stepparent in my kid's lives. But here I am. I feel like I am being asked if I want a toothache on my upper tooth or lower tooth. How about neither? But WH appears to not care if I live or die and that rejection hurts. It hurts and no amount of GAL or self improvement is going to make that rejection feel good. At this point I would settle for apathy, anything not to feel like this.
Let go or be dragged.
This is NOT about whether you are worthy or not. This is about HIM being incapable of being the man you thought he was.
Yes, it's rotten when plans don't turn out the way we thought they would. But you just might find yourself in an even better, alternate future if you let go and fly!
I thought I'd be getting ready to retire with my ex right about now, my kids grown, free to travel.
Instead I'm divorced, and yes, currently single (although I've had some splendid dating adventures.) but in the 9 years since my ex left, I've grown my practice, been invited to teach other physicians at conferences, written a chapter in a book, learned to play drums and vibraphone, performed and toured a little, taken some great international trips with my mom and sister. It's not the life I envisioned, but now I realize my ex probably did me a favor.
I love your analogy about the tooth ache. I laughed a little only because that is exactly how I feel about my situation. Single or a step parent. Neither of which I want. But I have grown to realize that sadly I do not want my H in my life at the moment. He is too disrespectful and ignorant to be welcomed back into my life. So I have let go. I am neither working on things or not working on things with him. I am just living my life. Having fun with my kids and my friends and developing myself. I hope that you eventually you can find the same for yourself.
I think you know this, Sara... people w/ issues don't change until they hit rock bottom. Your H isn't going to hit rock bottom w/ you during an in-house-separation.
But you're right. Life is making you choose between two big piles of poop.
Hi Sara. Reading your posts and knowing that I'm not the only one who is forced with making these impossible decisions is the only thing that has helped me get through this day. My W has practically become a ghost and yet her presence permeates through so many aspects of my life. I simultaneously want her to abandon us for good and come home to stay. I have a list a mile long of things I can do to take my mind off the disaster that is my marriage and none of them appeal to me, but the idea of "licking my wounds" makes me feel guilty. I want to move on but I still haven't let go. I know that this is the unavoidable state of limbo that only time can resolve, but some days (like today) it can seem overwhelming. I don't have any advice. Just a simple note of support to let you know that you're not alone.
sara
(((
)))
sometimes the limbo term is misleading. We are in a doorway of undesirable places so It's not as if the choice is between a working marriage or a crap divorce.
It's as AS says, one pile of poop or the other. Both choices seem untenable.
Except for one thing. The end of a m that is no longer working for you, is not going to lead you to the other side of this, and into peace. The other choice may well get you to a place of peace...
and maybe more...
I saw my Godsent T the other day.
When I discussed holding onto the concept of my m, the desire to reach h, to get him to care enough about his family...(
even now, I want to know he gives a damn!)
My T asked me about my friend who had a lung transplant. - Obviously my friend has new lungs.
My T asked me what my friend did "with the old lungs." I guessed that they were studied and then discarded...she asked me why my friend did not want her old lungs instead of the new ones.
ME: "because the old lungs did not work for her anymore..."
this^^ analogy helped me.
((( hugs )))
meant to say
staying in a m that is not working -
is not going to lead you to a place of peace.
I'm pro m. But there is a place in the DB book that says
"we can't/don't save the m at all costs." You get to decide what you are willing to spend on this.
You get to decide when the "sunk costs" are, and whether to fold & leave the table.
Sara
one last little list of beliefs you may have inside...
He’s my last chance at love.
I need a return on my investment.
What if I end up alone?
Everyone will pity me because I’m divorced/family will not approve.
Washed up and middle aged.
Frumpy and unwanted.
How will I manage financially?
I am scared of meeting someone new.
I don’t know how to meet someone new.
I don’t know what it feels like to be in a healthy relationship.
I just don't think these^^^ are fears to let run wild. You are a physician capable of paying your bills.
You will meet someone new. I mean, seriously. (At times like these, I remind myself that most women in the world don't have electricity in their homes, let alone food in them...perspective).
Return on investment---ah yes that's my biggest weakness for sure. Realizing that the "house always wins" in this, was a hard hard lesson for me.
I'm still working on it. Or I will keep losing my hands.
anyway, food for thought.
Remember We are on Team Sara and we are rooting for you!
Dear Sara,
I am so sorry for what happened. Right now, I am really mad at your H, he let you down again after giving you some high hope about a possible reconciliation. It's like being betrayed again.
While reading your description of your Retrouvaille week-end something crossed my mind. I have no clue if I am right or wrong, that's just an idea.
Do you think he went "aggressive" as a manner to avoid to work on his own introspection? May be in his mind, he thought that workshop was going to be a way to help him to sweep under the rug the issues and "calm you down" so he could continue to have his cake and eat it too, but when he realized he had to "follow" rules and do some deep introspection, he just panicked and went full blow, as a way to escape. What better way.. blaming you again and again to justify his past and current decisions.
It seems that he still didn't get it.
What is your opinion on that thought?
Somehow I am glad that you decided to take a break from having to decide if you wanted to keep filing for divorce or fighting for your M. You are back in the turmoil of that nasty roller coaster, emotions need to settle down before taking any major decisions. Actions have to prevail over reactions.
I really liked your expressions "licking my wounds", because that's what it is, you have been deeply wounded and you are right now in an Intensive Care Unit.
Once you start feel better, look at your situation and decide what you want to do next. Just keep in mind, whatever the choices you will make, there will be always pros and cons, just look at what is the best for you and the kids, what is the best for your own sanity. Also, it's not because you are making a decision one day, that you cannot amend it later on. And sometimes making decisions is forcing others to face reality and it brings changes that we were not expecting, the Domino effect...
Living without love and respect is very tough, so sometimes being alone is not easy but at least it's peaceful... Also, nobody changes unless being forced too...
Here again, those are thoughts and I am very well aware how excruciating it is to make decisions on that matter. I will support you on whatever your will decide because that your life and only you, know what you can live with or without.
Keep in mind that piecing is not easy either, it's a everyday struggle, right now I totally understand what Bluewave is going through, I feel that I am losing the love I used to have for my husband, may it's just a phase, I don't know... I really hate how the memories of the betrayal sometimes come back out of nowhere, engulf your mind and bring pain again and again.
Big hugs,
((((( Sara )))))))
Certainly no 2x4s from me- just love and hugs.
I hurt for you. I wish I knew what to say, or had something to offer you.
Just know there are many friends on here that love and support you.
TEAM. SARA.
Sarra, I’m sorry. I see myself in what you are doing. I fought and fought to keep him around. I think I was fighting off my own rock bottom, the fear at the bottom of the well that kept me tied to the pain of the life i’ve known rather than face the void. I would probably still be there doing the same things had my daughter not had the courage to tell me to make him leave. When your child says something like that you listen ... and carry shame. Eventually I was able to let go, to embrace the pain and the fear. The more I let go of him, the more I find me.
Hi Sara,
As I posted above we're in similar boats. I didn't quite read all of your past messages but I tried to read through them and if I understand correctly you may be a US-born citizen who became Muslim and your husband may be a Muslim with roots outside of the US. I apologize if I'm totally wrong! I just wanted to say that if your husband isn't originally from the US, there are certain cultural norms in the types of countries where he may be from where the husband really doesn't get involved much with the kids and doesn't show much romantic love to his wife after they start a family. Your husband may be just a regular guy acting according to his culture and dealing with things according to what he grew up seeing his father, uncles, and other men in society do. It doesn't matter if he's educated or upper class - my husband is from the Middle East and is a physician but said "men from my country don't change diapers" after we had a child. That was after years of helping wash dishes and doing many other household chores so I thought he was this moderate and Western-minded guy but obviously not.
That's not to say anything that's going on with your husband should be acceptable to you if he ever promised you more than that or if he married you acting one way and now acts another. But perhaps if my interpretation of your posts is correct and your husband isn't born in the US, and you are, then it may be of some comfort to remind yourself that your husband may be just a product of his culture. You probably did nothing wrong at all!
There is somewhat of a double standard in many Muslim-majority countries / cultures as you may know and some men may either get bored once they're married with kids and become reclusive at home or find excitement outside the home.
I don't want to write too much since I may be totally wrong but if I'm on the right track you may want to seek out women from your husband's culture / country and ask how they cope. It's also a possibility to get an elder man from your husband's culture to have a talk with your husband such as an uncle, father, imam, or any respected older man.
My husband already left and yours didn't, so there must be a reason why yours is still there. I can only say for me that even a dead marriage with a husband that comes home and goes to his room was much more comforting and predictable than being totally alone with a small child, but obviously no one wants it to be that way forever. In your case though it may make sense to think about maintaining stability for your kids and just learn to live in a detached way and forget about divorce and all the issues for a while and just focus on other things.
I'm not sure what the DB book says about that but given that you're not happy with any of the options perhaps doing nothing would be better than throwing your kids into a divorce and you yourself unraveling further. At least for a while...
Sorry I've been MIA folks, just needed some time to breathe and regroup. Since you all have taken the time to post on my I will address each post.
KML,
To me it looks like you would've "won" regardless of your M outcome because you embraced the DBing wholehearted. I will continue to take a page from your book.
Henwen,
I decided to just let go of the rope and focus on my children. I wasn't pursuing D actively and I wasn't really even caring if WH moved out tomorrow.
ForGump,
I think WH is reaching his rock bottom, more to come on that soon.
Chris73,
Sometimes just knowing someone is walking with you on a very rocky road makes the pain halved, KWIM? Thank you.
25mlc,
I've done a sunk cost analysis and it really came out to, "Well, am I really losing anything by losing the marriage?" Nope. I've had two men at my work persue me hard and both told me to let them know if my WH is looking for a replacement. I...may have shared that with my WH. (insert evil smiley) In the end I just needed some time to regroup and jump back in the DB saddle.
Sky,
I made the mistake of putting all my eggs in one basket again, the Retrouvialle. In the end I forgot the main DBing rule, do what works and STOP doing what doesn't work. Retrouvialle is not for everyone, and my WH definitely would rather have his eyes gouged out with a hot spoon than spend another weekend being forced to express his emotions in such a regimented fashion. I thought if we tried to communicate in this structured manner that it would be a huge answer to our communication issues, come to find out I get more from him with DBing than with dialoging.
Leah,
Thank you so much. I wass ready for an onslaught of "I told you sos." and instead came to emotional comfort and support.
Ownit,
I once asked my 6 yo DD how she would felt if mommy and addy lived in different houses. She looked at me with her huge brown eyes and sad (with a trembling voice) "I have to go cry now." I felt a pressure on my chest that hasn't really left since then.
Nicole,
My WH is a...weird dude. He changes diapers, bathes babies, cleans boo-boos and almost cried when I started hinting that it was time for the kidlets to get in their own bed. His main defense though is typical of well....most men. He man-caves, he stops participating in all family activities and locks himself away. He kinda loathes the way women act in his culture, there is a LOT of henpecking and passive aggressive victim claiming. I don't think I've ever heard his mother say one positive thing about her life. My WH pays his parents mortgage and sends extra spending money. Meanwhile his sister (she is divorced from her arranged-marriage husband) lives there with her two kids and makes a crap ton of money and gives really nothing toward their care. But my MIL says my WH is a bad son, a bad Muslim and only complains when he calls. This explains a lot of his shutting down when criticism starts rolling in, it's like he's stuck as a berated child.
I will update on our M when I get back from the bathroom, kids are done and it's time for the routine.
So an update, WH and I lived as roommates for the last few weeks and appeared completely comfortable with that. One night he came in the living room and started a relationship conversation and I kinda fell apart. I told him I had been doing a lot of thinking and came to an epiphany, WH told me on 1st Dday that he thought I would be just "disappointed" that he had a relationship with another woman. I told him that I was examining a lot of my behavior in our marriage before the A and found myself seriously lacking as a wife. I poured out my grief when I told him how I was reading a Gottman book in April '16 (before I started DBing) and felt a complete sense of helplessness as I realized how dis-engaged I was from our marriage all before Dday #1. I told him how I felt like a failure because I failed at nourishing our marriage and how he probably felt I didn't really love him. After all, how would he think I would just be disappointed finding out he was in a relationship with someone else? I said if I had shown the deep love I felt for him in the beginning, the constant "little things" then he would never have a doubt how I deeply I loved him.
Why did I do this? Because it was honest and authentic and I felt there was nothing left to lose if we were D'ing. The look of shock on his face was surprising for me. He answered slowly and carefully, like when you are talking to someone having a nervous breakdown. He said he was thankful that I was able to share that with him and that he felt we needed time to just try and be friends. I completely agreed and said I needed time and space to get my head on straight.
Today WH came to me again and asked if we could have a talk, I agreed. He said I had changed so much that he was always "on edge" waiting for the angry woman to return from Dday #1. He said he deserved every ounce of my rage but that he was not good at coping with it and sometimes he preferred to run away. He admitted this was immature and stupid and that he would work on it. He asked if we could continue to approach each other with our concerns and questions and keep it in this polite, gentle manner. I told him my goal was to be a more ACTIVE person than a REACTIVE person. He poured out a lot of his shame and deep sense of self betrayal but he was unsure if he would ever have "what it takes" to make it up to me. I told him I didn't want justice, I just wanted to see him make the effort.
The conversation was much longer and more involved but this was the gist. Overall we both walked away nervous of this new....something, not sure what it's called. He then sheepishly asked if we could go fishing together and if I could "play hooky" from Retrouvialle today. I agreed more because I felt I needed a break from all this "work" and just needed to be somewhere and NOT think. We spent 5 hours fishing and caught NADA. :lol: I came home relaxed, mildly sunburned and even my hair felt calm. WH keeps looking at me out of the corner of his eye and even touched me gently a few times. I feel...kinda...nothing isn't the right word, more like neutral? I've made it clear to him that I don't want physical intimacy from him as it confuses me and after all, we're just friends right now. He respects this and is not flirting or hinting.
So for now I am engaging the DBing techniques more for my own sanity. I am still neutral on whether or not to D or R. I am just sitting back and doing my thing. I will continue to GAL and focus on my kids, can't lose when I focus on them.
Overall we both walked away nervous of this new....something, not sure what it's called.
PsySara, poked my head up...did not want to find old friends, but wanted to - as if that makes sense. Th quot I chose, so appropriate for where I am right now. I stopped for a long time, I found forgiveness for myself. After that, I withdrew without even realizing I had, I was just living my life. After that, all control fell into my lap and the irony was that I felt no desire to control. After that, I'm not sure what it's called. Perhaps why I visit tonight?
Hi Sara,
I wish we all had the right answers on what works for an M. It is clear that a happy M takes two people that want it. Is his fear of D because of attachment? I am not sure you will know or if he even knows the answer to that.
You have been DBing for a long time. When are you truly happy? Acceptance of a different sitch is not easy. I still struggle and still feel a connection, always will. I can't have what I want if the other does not want to give. Only you can create your own happiness, having someone to share it with is a bonus.
Continue to give yourself time.
I must say it bothered me when you said your H left Retrouvaille early and when he did not take his kids swimming.
He is living his life and feels no remorse for his actions. Good, bad or indifferent on the outcome, everyone needs to live their life how they choose.
Praying that he gets a huge 2 x 4 someday and wakes up to see what an amazing person he is with.
(((Sara)))
Sara,
Keep DBing, it is essential, that's the only way you will be able to find YOURSELF. It will help you to bring back confidence and serenity.
Living as roommates is a great way to avoid to have feelings/expectations when you are trying to figure out what you want (especially after all those ups and downs you have been through since January). You have been in pursuit mode almost no stop and trying to read his mind on a constant basis.
Also, it removes pressure not only on you, but also on him, since he has been reacting more than thinking those past 2 years, so having to figure out his own feelings/goals/future by himself without you trying to influence him might be beneficial for him too.
You are giving him the possibility to watch you become you true self without him having the excuses to justify his actions/words for whatever he does now. He won't be able to use your behavior and your words to "explain" his present decisions, so it means he will have also to act instead of react but you won't be the cause anymore since you are neutral. I hope you understand my "brainstorming".
But, it doesn't mean that you should drop your boundaries.
I totally get in when you said that you were feeling "neutral", because when you start to realize your own value and have your own expectations without no more compromises from your side only (thank you DBing), you start looking at your situation in a more objective manner and suddenly you realize that you don't need his constant validation anymore to be YOU, to be happy and to be desirable in the eyes of other men. Then you are starting to question yourself about what you allowed yourself to accept and how it destroyed you. You are in the process to have your self esteem back where it should be and it means reevaluating your feelings towards him. In plain language: "I am not ready to accept anything anymore just to have some crumbs of appreciation from you even if I still have some feelings from you, finally I value myself not in regard of what you think of me but in regard of what I think of me".
Take your time!
(((HUGS)))
Sara:
I'm sorry to hear about the negative developments. I can see from your posts over time that your diligence and commitment to yourself and your family is truly admirable.
You are on the right path for yourself and your kids.
Whew! Been out and about so much I haven't had the time to update. For the last month things have been getting steadily better between WH and I. I continue to GAL and also be open to him joining me on my activities. This has resulted in him turning more and more toward me. He has begun to return to the dedicated father I used to know. He wakes early and prepares the children's breakfast before going to work, he tries to get off early to be home with me and the kids, he seeks my company. I've let go of the resentment and have really worked on managing my anger.
I think my DB coach said it best, when we are wronged we have this mentality of "Someone's gonna pay." But in the end the scales can never be righted and that is where forgiveness steps in. I could either be right or be happy. So I had to look at my WH and decide if I was going to hold his Affair over his head for the rest of our lives. Aside from me feeling righteous and vindicated there was no real "gain." WH continues to do things to make me feel safe in our marriage, he does not spend much time on his phone anymore, basically work stuff and that is it. No more apps that have questionable activities and he wants me near him a lot. He still struggles with the guilt and I see him crumble when the after effects still ripple. (I have multiple health issues after the fallout)
We're so different now, our relationship is nothing like it was before in our marriage. Part of me is sad because I don't have a lot of my previous held beliefs such as soul mates and knowing I am his "one." The fact of the matter is, I had grown complacent in our marriage and felt he would always be there no matter how much I neglected our marriage. Instead of the grass always being greener on the other hill I realized it's greener where you water it. He and I both need to work on our coping skills but it's a slow process. He will never be the kind of guy who seeks out workshops/books/counselors to work on us. But he is willing to try and change himself to be a better husband/father/man. MWD is definitely right about one thing, you have to do what works and STOP doing what doesn't work.
So I find that trying new things with WH, things that build positive thoughts and memories between us has a HUGE effect. He asks me constantly if I am ok, if I need anything from him, he jumps to help with the household, children and overall mundane activities of running a family. I, in turn, work on my own reactivity, showing him my softer and more vulnerable side, I laugh and smile more. I am truly happy.
Would I be okay with WH? Sure. But I am hoping we can grow old together and raise our beautiful children together. So far it looks like we may be reaching a turning point. Things are not like I imagined but I am finding joy regardless. The divorce has been halted and if we continue in this manner then I may even feel we are "piecing." He has turned toward me and is working as hard as I've ever seen, consistently.
MEasureable things?
He texts and updates me on his daily activities
We flirt a little and he is very attentive to my reaction
We try to carve a day a week just for us and couple activities
We touch a lot, hug and sometimes kiss
I try more daring things, I go on motorcycle rides with WH and will be signing up for rider lessons. (I secretly want a Grom, which is a hilarious bike to own.)
I go fishing with WH, shopping, walk the dogs, we try to find shows we enjoy watching together.
I really pay attention when WH tells me his thoughts, his dreams, his fears, his joys. I turn toward him, make eye contact and really engage.
I've been going to the gym again and watching my diet, overall I am working on a healthier lifestyle.
PsySara,
I don't have time to write much right now but just want to say that's such great news!!! That sounds like the best possible outcome. Sometimes it really does take a lot of time to see these results. Hopefully you and your husband will keep moving in the right direction. If I were you I'd be so, so happy. It's admirable that you hung in there and didn't give up. I wish so badly to see the same results with my husband. I hope you keep enjoying all the activities you've been doing with your husband.
One other note - you mentioned health problems after the 'fallout.' That's what's happening to me too. I'm 39 and otherwise healthy, eat well, etc.. I have no risk factors for what I have except, I guess, stress. I hope your problems can be managed or cured and won't stop you from all the excellent progress you made.
Sara,
What a turnaround! I am happy to hear that he is working hard on the M with you. You have worked so hard, I truly hope that your family stays together. Keep watering the grass where you are! Always in my thoughts and prayers!
J
Hello friends! Just popping in to further update. WH continues to consistently show remorse and work towards making me feel safe. The other day he walked me around and introduced me to some friends (females included) and told me later it was so I could see who he talked with the most. One lady was a name that popped up often in convos...you can imagine my chagrin when she is in her 70s. No need for jealousy there, lol!
This week the baby was up all night with a stomach virus. I was still recovering from my own viral infection so WH asked me to move to the spare room so I could get some sleep. He spent most of the night up with the baby cleaning up vomit and comforting DS1. HE went to work the next day on about an hour of sleep. I hold still and just watch. This seems like the real deal but I am guarding my heart. I Feel blessed though. My children are doing well and my life is good.
Uh oh....just heard WH puke...need to go tend to him.
Sara
I have been reading on the sidelines. You are a model for standing and working on your M. I like that a lot and it shows who you are. One amazing woman and mother.
Your WH is a cheater and I dislike seeing you being hoovered on an endless cycle. It is your path to follow and your choice to accept it, so I haven't said much. Sometimes it works out to be true change, a very long shot.
Each time the cycle happens, the optimism comes along with your amnesia. It's the sweet cycle and it's abusive, more so than the bad stuff including cheating.
You need INTEL I think, he may be cheating again. The big demo of deleting his profile and reassuring you? Call me a cynic.....
I know I post what you don't want to hear.
V
Good to see you around, Vanilla! Long time no see. I can understand your suspicions and am still keeping my guard firmly in place. When WH had his A he was cold, mean, not a good father and spent a LOT of time on his phone. If he's cheating then he's super man. He spends every free moment home with me and the kids and is very engaged with us.
So WH picked up a stomach bug from DS1, he spent the night vomiting on Wednesday and was completely lethargic on Thursday. I took care of the kids and went about my usual routine. On Friday WH was all better and constantly texting and calling just to joke and play around. By that evening I was stuck in the bathroom vomiting and diarrhea. WH completely took over and Friday night/Saturday morning he was cleaning DD6 vomit out of the carpet while I puked in the bathroom. It was both hilarious and disgusting.
I was useless all Saturday and WH took care of me and the kids. Now it looks like this awfulness has passed and WH is still sleeping as he is probably exhausted. He continues to work on us, he wants to know if there is anything I need both emotionally and physically. He sets aside time just for us so we can talk and we have used some of the tools we learned at Retrouvaille to communicate, though not as structured and regimented. Sometimes something will trigger me and he sees it, he will look like he's in pain and say Sorry over and over again.
One thing that has been absent for a while is my rage. I guess I decided I could spend the rest of my life looking for things to be just or I could be happy. My DB coach told me a long time ago that people get the mentality that, "Someone's gonna pay" and that can prevent people from healing. I decided that the scales can never be even between WH and I and I needed to stop waiting for that to happen. Instead of working on getting our old marriage back I decided to build a new relationship. Does this mean we will be married for the rest of our lives? Not sure. But I can at least have a functional relationship with the father of my children.
WH knows I have decided that I can walk away from our marriage if necessary for my own mental health. I filed for divorce and the paperwork is 80% complete, albeit on hold. My retainer is still in escrow and all I have to do is contact the lawyer if I feel it's time to move toward D. I do not use this as a sword of Democles over WH head but rather as a protection. I don't bring it up but we both know it's there.
For now I focus on the NOW. Instead of ruminating over all his past transgressions I have focused on how we are both nurturing each other. I have read hundreds of other DBers stories and quite a few of them achieved their goals without IC or MC. They simply kept working on themselves and towards watering the grass in their own backyard.
I find myself disagreeing more and more with the hardliners that expose, kick out and overall shame their wayward spouses. This punitive behavior almost NEVER works and instead rips up the road back home. Putting boundaries in place are for the BS and should be about protecting the BS not hurting the WS. The DB coaches advise against that as well as MWD in her books. Lovingly detaching involves GAL, building up your support network, stop snooping and moving forward. Focus on those goals and you win no matter the outcome of the marriage.
I think it depends on the wayward. Frankly some of them an the way they behave deserve no wriggle room.
I have NO sympathy for cheating at all, that is a line no one should cross. It's unworthy and of poor moral character.
As soon as the LBS says enough then the wayward knows is business time.
I don't believe in snooping although I believe in INTEL. It is different, to know rather than to guess. Once you know you can never unknow. Plus truth darts are different to shaming. It's the behaviour that needs addressing not the person. That is boundary making and I think we are on the same page.
V
PsySara,
I responded to your post on my thread but just want to say that your husband sounds amazing taking care of a sick child, then getting sick, then helping again. It's so much better having two parents who can trade off. I'm sure you won't regret your decision to try to fix the marriage. I hope the reversal will lead to long-term reconciliation your kids will grow up in a happy home with two parents who love them and love each other.
No worries Vanilla, I keep tabs just to check now and again. While snooping is unhealthy for the LBS when they already know what's going on I think it's different if you are moving towards piecing and you want to protect yourself from being taken advantage of. Regardless, WH has given me unfettered access to his emails, cell phone, bank account, etc.,
NicoleR,
At this point I am enjoying having a partner help me with all the day-to-day care. Will it last? Time will tell.
So again things are humming along. I continue to work on myself and manage my reactivity, this includes my behavior towards WH, the kids and even my colleagues. WH seems to be poking his head out of this...MLC? I dunno. For instance, WH has purchased 5 bikes in the last 2 years (he's gotten more than that but used them as trade ins) and seemed to be spending money hand over fist. A few nights ago I caught him staring into the garage at them and I teasingly asked, "Checking out the girls?" He looked pained and admitted he feels embarrassed looking at this excess. He finds his behavior in the last two years baffling now. And this extends to his money wasting, the affair, the overall unraveling. I told him to sit on any decisions about what to do with the bikes for at least a month. I don't want him swinging into the other direction and becoming an aestetic, lol. He's in pain right now but there is nothing I can do to ameliorate it, it's his journey.
I continue to try and keep the road paved back home and WH has started spontaneously saying ILY, telling me I am a good person and talking about me at work to his colleagues telling them how lucky he is. I in turn tell him what an amazing father he is, I touch him a lot, kiss his bald spot a lot, tell him how much he means to me. I am hesitant to call us piecing because it's so early in the game but there is a peace now between us. I can honestly say if he dropped the ILYBIANILWY right now I would be hurt but completely at peace with us separating. Why? Because I turned every single stone to save our marriage. IF WH decides to walk away I can lift my head high and know I did my part to give my children a whole home.
We are both working on showing each other how treasured we feel toward each other. I remind myself that I always kept myself well groomed, soft spoken and laughed a lot when we first met. Even though we're married I try to look amazing around him because it's so easy to slide into complacency. I was thinking about this the other day. I never lash out at work, or dress like crap, or just dump all my problems on a colleague. Why was I doing that to WH in the past? Probably because I took him for granted and just assumed he would always settle for whatever I had leftover at the end of the day. That was my mistake, complacency. I also let my resentment build up and instead of approaching him in a loving manner to help out more with the kids and household stuff I would berate him and hen peck him. Looking back I am surprised he didn't tell me to go pound sand much earlier. I had become his mother and not his wife.
So we have a loooong way to go and the future is uncertain, hopeful but uncertain. I will keep updating but I may move myself to piecing if these changes continue to stick.
We are both working on showing each other how treasured we feel toward each other. I remind myself that I always kept myself well groomed, soft spoken and laughed a lot when we first met. Even though we're married I try to look amazing around him because it's so easy to slide into complacency. I was thinking about this the other day. I never lash out at work, or dress like crap, or just dump all my problems on a colleague. Why was I doing that to WH in the past? Probably because I took him for granted and just assumed he would always settle for whatever I had leftover at the end of the day. That was my mistake, complacency. I also let my resentment build up and instead of approaching him in a loving manner to help out more with the kids and household stuff I would berate him and hen peck him. Looking back I am surprised he didn't tell me to go pound sand much earlier. I had become his mother and not his wife.
Hi Psych
I am glad that you are close to piecing and in a much better place. You are a very hard worker and certainly did everything that you could to save your marriage.
When I came on here, I really wanted to save my marriage. I was (and am) too angry though to really implement what might have worked. And I often look back at how I acted in my marriage and feel shame for not being a perfect wife and partner. I often wonder if I was a better person and spouse, would my ex not have suffered from his addiction problems, went into secret debt, and left me and my son?
When I read this paragraph you wrote, it made me want to play devils advocate and not because I want for you to be angry at your spouse, but because your voice is also mine.
What you are writing sounds exhausting. To have to be constantly on (Like we are at work) And perfect. At all times. When the kids are small, when we are sleep deprived, when we are exhausted. Chances are, our spouses were not perfect either. But we did not do things to betray or end or put at risk our families safety and security.
What makes marriage so much more difficult and perhaps sacred from other relationships like those in work and school is that marriage is supposed to be unconditional (with exception to betrayal and addiction) People, couples do lash out, and dress poorly, and smell bad and get sick and sad and nag. Its what we do because we are human. Our spouses might not like it, but they are just as imperfect and we dealt with them. Now this is not an excuse to not put effort into your relationship. But there should also be a grace period granted by our spouses. I notice a lot of the waywards on this board left after young kids, sickness, death.
That is what marriage is. The hard part is not being prepared for what its really like. Kind of like child birth. You don't really know how painful it is until you experience it. Eventually the pain ends and you have a beautiful gift...that will continue to bring periods of pain but also joy throughout life. I feel like many of these Waywards just deserted at the painful part. I think many of them cannot handle discomfort. But life will always be filled with discomfort, so what will keep them from leaving again if they are not committed through discomfort?
Juju,
Thank you for such a well written, thoughtful response. I definitely agree that marriage is supposed to be through thick and thin. I guess I presented my thoughts poorly. My point was I had stopped giving my husband the "cream" and was only giving him the leftovers. I was sarcastic, resentful and would pile up a list of his deficiencies on my head and unload them when we argued. Do I still have moments where I snap at him and don't give a crap about my appearance, heck yeah! But I had gotten to the point where I wasn't even caring how I looked at home.
Since DBing I went back to my former days where I dressed up and put on makeup even when I wasn't going out. Nothing fancy but if I answered the door at 9 am I wouldn't be embarrassed. I also have worked on being more present when interacting with my kids and WH. I was previously just going through the motions until I could escape to whatever time-suck I had lined up. I think believing that marriage is unconditional can make for complacency, it did in my case. The fact is more marriages are ending in divorce than ever before shows that most people no longer agree with it being guaranteed.
I just want to be a great wife and mother and am trying new things as the old PsySara wasn't effective. My resentment and anger were making me look like a very unhappy person. And who wants to hang out with that? My anger was and is a huge issue and I need to deal with it.
Anyways, kids just woke up and I am excited to see their reaction to their little play kitchen I spent 4 hours assembling yesterday, woot!
PsySara, I read your updates and they all sound great. My responses to you on my own thread didn't go through but I was saying how impressive it is that you've done so much - all those jobs, becoming a physician, multiple kids, etc.. and you're holding your family together and now even focusing on looking good! Your husband must definitely be proud and know it's worth earning you back! That's great you're working so hard on everything and seeing the results. I hope it keeps getting better and better.
Sara. You have the patience of a saint. You have absolutely gone above and beyond in this m, through hell and back and is truly truly hope that he is pulling his head out of his a$$ and saying alhamdulilah ive been absolutely blessed! There’s been so many similarities in your sitch and mine and our husbands (even their cultures). I honestly come to you when i need a bit of strength. Right now i feel like I’m just at the survival stage, and i know you’ve been there. The not knowing if this is what you want, or you’re ready to give in. And what a journey you’ve had since the start of this thread!! I think my journey has been paved for me through him picking someone else, when our Islamic divorce is invalid, and our legal is going through.
We are both working on showing each other how treasured we feel toward each other. I remind myself that I always kept myself well groomed, soft spoken and laughed a lot when we first met. Even though we're married I try to look amazing around him because it's so easy to slide into complacency. I was thinking about this the other day. I never lash out at work, or dress like crap, or just dump all my problems on a colleague. Why was I doing that to WH in the past? Probably because I took him for granted and just assumed he would always settle for whatever I had leftover at the end of the day. That was my mistake, complacency. I also let my resentment build up and instead of approaching him in a loving manner to help out more with the kids and household stuff I would berate him and hen peck him. Looking back I am surprised he didn't tell me to go pound sand much earlier. I had become his mother and not his wife.
Hi Psych
I am glad that you are close to piecing and in a much better place. You are a very hard worker and certainly did everything that you could to save your marriage.
When I came on here, I really wanted to save my marriage. I was (and am) too angry though to really implement what might have worked. And I often look back at how I acted in my marriage and feel shame for not being a perfect wife and partner. I often wonder if I was a better person and spouse, would my ex not have suffered from his addiction problems, went into secret debt, and left me and my son?
When I read this paragraph you wrote, it made me want to play devils advocate and not because I want for you to be angry at your spouse, but because your voice is also mine.
What you are writing sounds exhausting. To have to be constantly on (Like we are at work) And perfect. At all times. When the kids are small, when we are sleep deprived, when we are exhausted. Chances are, our spouses were not perfect either. But we did not do things to betray or end or put at risk our families safety and security.
What makes marriage so much more difficult and perhaps sacred from other relationships like those in work and school is that marriage is supposed to be unconditional (with exception to betrayal and addiction) People, couples do lash out, and dress poorly, and smell bad and get sick and sad and nag. Its what we do because we are human. Our spouses might not like it, but they are just as imperfect and we dealt with them. Now this is not an excuse to not put effort into your relationship. But there should also be a grace period granted by our spouses. I notice a lot of the waywards on this board left after young kids, sickness, death.
That is what marriage is. The hard part is not being prepared for what its really like. Kind of like child birth. You don't really know how painful it is until you experience it. Eventually the pain ends and you have a beautiful gift...that will continue to bring periods of pain but also joy throughout life. I feel like many of these Waywards just deserted at the painful part. I think many of them cannot handle discomfort. But life will always be filled with discomfort, so what will keep them from leaving again if they are not committed through discomfort?
Juju, I just wanted to say this is so eloquently written. This is how it should be, and it feels that there are very few who share this sentiment anymore. I walked on eggshells my whole R and M trying to be the perfect wife because I knew him and I knew if I wasn't, he would ditch me so fast. And when I needed more during ICF and pregnancy and he refused to give it and I finally stood up for my needs, he was out the door so fast, into someone else's arms. I don't regret making my needs known and backing down on my 100% when I needed him. I don't want someone who gives such conditional love.
I don't think I would have made it this long if I had to be on top of my game 24/7. I was falling apart. I read something recently where in a relationship, sometimes you have to be the 80% when the other person can only be the 20% and it flows both ways.
Sorry for the hijack, Sara. Juju really explained what a M and love should be.
What you are writing sounds exhausting. To have to be constantly on (Like we are at work) And perfect. At all times. When the kids are small, when we are sleep deprived, when we are exhausted. Chances are, our spouses were not perfect either. But we did not do things to betray or end or put at risk our families safety and security.
What makes marriage so much more difficult and perhaps sacred from other relationships like those in work and school is that marriage is supposed to be unconditional (with exception to betrayal and addiction) People, couples do lash out, and dress poorly, and smell bad and get sick and sad and nag. Its what we do because we are human. Our spouses might not like it, but they are just as imperfect and we dealt with them. Now this is not an excuse to not put effort into your relationship. But there should also be a grace period granted by our spouses. I notice a lot of the waywards on this board left after young kids, sickness, death.
Juju, I could not have said this any better.
I recently posted an update to my sitch - no sooner had I put this up did I get really, REALLY sick with a horrible respiratory infection. My W was stellar at first, getting my meds for me, taking care of me while I laid in bed. I mean, not only could I not breathe, I couldn't move. I felt paralyzed, super depressed, nothing was cheering me up. Within a few days, I could feel my W losing her patience with me, wanting me to go to the gym when clearly I was not in any condition. Trust me - I'm my own worst critic and I feel absolutely dreadful when I can't help around the house. But after a while, I began to feel like I was a burden to her. Like, at first it was great coming to my rescue, but now that I'm down for a few days longer, I'm noticing her staying on her phone longer, not asking me how I am....
I thought - maybe I'm being a pain in the butt. I point blank asked her, in my sorry state, if there was anything I was doing wrong, did I have unreasonable expectations? No, she said, everything was fine, and why was I so worried about things? I didn't want to tell her that when she distanced from me before, it was when she was in her affair with OM.
So I wrote it off as me being sick and probably over-sensitive. Within a week, I slowly recovered BUT she started getting sick. She waited until she could barely move when she finally went to the doctor, who diagnosed her the same infection as me, but worse because she waited longer. The beginnings of pneumonia. I went right into caregiver mode and put aside my job, my duties around the house, and waited on her hand and foot.
I felt like I was stepping up to the plate (something I would've done for ANYONE in my family) - as time went on, she was being sarcastic and constantly on my case about mundane things. I validated to the point where I put my own personal feelings aside. I was being berated and belittled at every turn while she was in bed. Not one time did I receive a simple "thank you" for getting her medication, waiting on her - if anything, I got constant selfish comments about herself. Good example is our daughter had a birthday. We were supposed to take her to dinner with her friends. I asked my W, "our daughter still wants to go out with her friends (she's an older teenager), what would you want? Should I cancel it and wait until you feel better? My wife pulled the "woe-is-me" and kept saying, "oh, you just go, don't worry about me".
Then it came to Xmas shopping. I told my W that I would rather wait until she got better so we could go together. I thought I was saying the right thing, then she asked to shop online instead. I had absolutely NO problem with that. She asked which credit card to use. I told her use her Amazon card. She then said, "I thought you closed it?" I replied, its yours, I can't close one of your credit cards. She got quiet then said (like I was some kind of child, too) I. Didn't. Ask. You. THAT. I. asked. if. you. CLOSED. it. down. like. we. agreed. Yes, she emphasized every word.
I'm exhausted, still drained from battling my own illness, and I feel like I've done nothing wrong. I expending so much energy on making her the top priority and all I'm getting is crapped on. This point blank reminds me of when she was in her affair land 2 years ago, when she found so many things wrong with me that she justified her affair.
And she's on her damn phone constantly. I'd like to think she's not hiding anything from me. At least I don't think so but I'm not as naive this time around.
If she is, I'm done.
This point blank reminds me of when she was in her affair land 2 years ago, when she found so many things wrong with me that she justified her affair.
And she's on her damn phone constantly. I'd like to think she's not hiding anything from me. At least I don't think so but I'm not as naive this time around.
If she is, I'm done.
when you were sick, you asked her if you had done anything wrong... can you ask her again now that she is sick? i would... i would want to know why anybody is treating me the way your wife is treating you... don't let her treat you that way for any reason other than you killed her puppy...
mis dos centavos--
arista
i mean, ARTISTA...
Hey guys, I am listening and taking it all in. I have placed clear boundaries and will not tolerate any disrespectful or sarcastic comments from WH. He knows I filled my tank with his past bullsh*t and it's full, no more allowed. He has been attentive and helping with the kids, household shores, asking after me and overall making changes. We still disagree but now we do it differently. We talk about what we desire and how we feel when the other feels differently and decide what we're going to do about it. Do we still get irritable with each other? Heck yeah! But we no longer use each other as a sewage to dump our emotional waste on either.
I still get triggered about his past behavior but then I work on being PRESENT in the now. I need to focus on what he's doing now because if I start to ruminate then it brings me pain and anger. And what do I do with that? It just hurts me and retards our process of healing. It will never, ever be just. He will never, ever be able to "make up" for his past treatment. But he can be a better husband and father now and I can be a better mother and wife.
I have let go of the outcome and know that if WH ever cheats again I can hold my head up high and walk away. I have exhausted every.single.option. I feel more happiness than sadness, more peace than conflict, but it is a slow and painful growth for me. So many times I temped to return to my old behaviors, critical, sarcastic, rigid. But not only was I not happy in that state, my children and H were also being dragged along. I don't walk on eggshells but I do check myself when it comes to initial reaction.
Someone here has a tag line that says something like, "Life is 10% of what happens to you and 90% how you react to it." That really struck a chord in me and I have tried to let it resonate. Anger may drive someone to accomplish a short term goal but it can quickly burn a person out in the long run. Initially the only emotion I could cope with was anger but it really came down to running away from my pain. I brought this up with my DBing coach a long time ago, he said that anger was not an authentic emotion, that it usually covered pain or guilt or shame. In my case it was definitely pain.
Today WH and I had lunch together. He was kind of quiet and withdrawn. I reflected his silence but in more of a calm, contemplative way. I used to feel pressure to fill up the silence so I am not perceived as boring or "less than" the OW. Now I know if he has something he wants to share with me he will share it in his own time. I also don't need to know All The Thoughts like I used to. There is a serious lack of sex but I am not sure I am ready yet. WH is making no moves and I am not sure how intimacy would be perceived by him. This is an area I find myself unsure of for the first time ever. Advice? I want that intimacy back but don't know how to broach this topic without making clinical and awkward.
Just checking in to update.
DD6 will be turning 7 this week and I've already done some online shopping to get her requested gifts. I plan on having some cupcakes delivered to DD school for her birthday and I am sure she will be stoked. She is such an easy child, I swear she was born smiling. She is exceptionally close to WH and resembles him the most out of the three children. She is extremely empathetic and gentle, I am blessed to be her mom.
I have surgery scheduled on Monday (complications from the STD I contracted from WH after his affair.)I am nervous but remain fairly stoic around everyone. This has triggered me pretty hard and I have regressed a bit back to mind movies and replaying the awfulness of the behavior of WH when he was in his affair. However I have not used WH as my spew container like I did in the past. Instead when WH looks devastated and says he's sorry over and over again I just tell him to make prayer that this will be quick and safe and that we never have to go through this again.
I've done something a bit different than before. Before when I underwent surgeries/procedures I wanted WH there to provide support and comfort. But he has shown to be kind of...awful about giving me what I need. Usually he becomes irritable and even nasty. It's not just me but also when the kids have had to undergo medical procedures (DD had adenoid removed at age 4 and he was a dragon) So I've asked my cousin to take me and WH will be allowed to pick me up afterward. While this isn't perfect I think it will give me the feeling of safety I need.
Hi Sara,
I've followed your story all the way through. You are one of the bravest and most resilient woman I've seen on here. Thank you for writing about your experiences. It helps to read about a woman whose H didn't or couldn't express remorse but turned it around through their own understanding of their situation and H. You seem to have grasped what makes your H tick. How to bring out his best even when you were feeling totally betrayed. I thought I had learnt this, but no, I have a lot more introspection left to do.
You seem to have come to a moment of understanding about your situation and life. I thought I had but now I see I've more journey to travel physically and emotionally.
Good luck with your surgery, I wish you the very best care and attention.
Thank you Caz. The reality of the situation is I expect that WH will learn remorse over time. He already has to face the severe consequences of what his betrayal has done to my body and mind. He knows I am not the same person I was before his affair. I am less and I am more, if that makes sense. The more I 180 the more he is left to face the fact that I didn't make him step out of the marriage, I am and have always been willing to change. He never gave me a chance to prove this before he rewrote our marital history and betrayed in the worst possible way.
If I unleash my rage and allow my reactivity to control my behavior then it will only last me a short time and then I am left with the ashes of my own destruction. If WH had come to me and told me how unhappy he was in our marriage (basically he just said not enough sex) and that he needed a change then I would have done whatever necessary. If he recommended marriage counseling, speaking with an elder, marriage retreat...whatever, I would have done it. He still leans on how I was "different" before his affair. But the more I show him my best qualities the more he realizes I was capable all along. He was the one that blew up our marriage and he will have to face who he is. I no longer let him see my reactive side as he uses it as justification.
I still struggle sometimes with ruminating thoughts and find myself sliding back into my rage. But then I do thought stopping and three things, something I see, something I feel, something I smell. Mindfulness is helping. I still have a long way to go.
DD passed her Islamic test after a semester of Sunday school, I was so proud of her. WH bought her an expensive gift she has been looking at for some time. She is ecstatic and playing with it now. DS5 also has been studying (too young to be tested) so WH got him a surprise as well. The kids are all bathed, in their pjs and watching a youtube video right now. I'll be tucking them in soon and then I have to shower and use a special medicine to sanitize my body for the surgery tomorrow, WH has to help as the entire body surface has to be wiped down. I'll be taking a few days off from work but can't stay out too long as my patient list will fall apart.
Say a prayer for me friends, I am kinda terrified.
'I am less and I am more' makes perfect sense and it resonates with me.
Also I am the same as you, if my H had asked for changes I would have been willing to make those changes...my H isn't one to be introspective, ask for repairs to fix our broken marriage.
He wanted what he wanted...wanted me to be happy, but happy with what we had and how we lived (which centred around his needs) and then coming back at weekends to have sex, spend lightening speed time with us and rush off again...all in the guise of 'I'm doing this for us'
I also try not to show my reactive side any longer...although I don't get much chance as we very rarely text and I haven't seen him for 6 weeks. My reactive side reared its head in texts and I no longer (or try my hardest) to not send any, other than money and children issues.
You talk about ruminating thoughts...this is me but I'm working on this too with a technique my IC taught me.
Well done DD on passing her test, you deserve huge credit for seeing her through that, so well done you too!
Please don't be terrified...you've been through the toughest times ever...this is a hurdle and you'll sail over it, recuperate and conquer that patient list. Be super kind to yourself, and allow your body and mind to heal. You're no good to your patients if you are not at your best. Give yourself time.
Thinking of you.
Sara, you are in my duas for a safe surgery and speedy recovery. As caz says, rest and get yourself fully better first or you’ll only set yourself back.
Masha Allah, your daughter has done amazing. What a credit to you these children are. They are thriving and achieving due to your strength and your ability to protect and constantly put them first. You are an inspiration to many with how you’ve approached this entire situation and put the time, and perseverance in to look inside and be the best you, and it pays off. You ARE the woman he would be a FOOL to leave, and i honestly pray that he sees this.
Sending lots of love across the shores. In sha Allah all will go well, have faith.
Sara, that is so great about your daughter. You must be proud! Currently I take my daughter to a church but may switch to a mosque when we move so I hope my daughter can follow your daughter's footsteps.
That's really unfair you need to have surgery as a result of your husband's actions. I hope it's a minor procedure and you're already recovering and feeling much better by the time you read this. With medical procedures it's better to get them over with ASAP. I can relate to how your husband deals with your need of comfort after a procedure. My husband in the past few years is annoyed and angry when anything is wrong with me. I was so scared to get an endoscopy in October because I had to go under anesthesia and my husband refused to even take off work that morning and I had no one available to come with me. I drove there alone and had to wait there until my husband had 20 minutes to leave work, pick me up, and drop me off at home. There was no kindness, no sympathy. Even with the diagnosis I received he had no reaction whatsoever. I hope though in your case your husband is better than that and you can accept his limitations without letting them get in the way of other progress.
I hope everything is going better than expected. It's so hard to be a mom and need any kind of medical treatment but if you're a physician at least hopefully you're treated extra well by the physician who's doing the procedure. I hope you'll post how it went when you're back online!
PsySara - sending you warm thoughts and prayers. Hope it's gone smoothly and you recover v quickly!
part 12 starting new thread