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http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2759675&page=1Gosh, it feels like I've been busy since I came here. New thread is hopefully a new chapter and more about gains than losses.
Funny shift a few days ago. I just woke up and felt like myself again...can't explain it but it was nice. Pre-M me was independent, very rational, optimistic and quite tough-minded. My H brought out a softer side of me (which was there but usually hidden) and it was lovely too.
I have no doubts that my M was pretty good and that we really loved each other. Few doubts that my H had a breakdown and is in full MLC roll. I don't doubt that he was a great human being (with flaws like we all have) before this. I don't think this crisis was about me and I do think he has done some rotten things and is unrecognisable from who he was. I also think his life is a chaotic hot mess and I don't think he is happy or healthy from what I know. I love him and I wish we weren't here...
But the original me says that I'm tired of this ridiculous mess. I don't want to fight for my M anymore no matter how much I love him. If he is so f'd up that he can't remember how special we were, or how fab I am, then that is his sad loss. We're due to talk this weekend on the phone to try to get £ stuff sorted out (IF - ha ha - he sends some info over today as he's promised) and 'let's get this nonsense sorted' is going to be my attitude. Never thought I would want a D but, logically, it is the best thing for me now. To cut the ties and walk away from the endless chaos. My H has a MH problem, I've done my best, but I'm no longer prepared to take the damage.
Wedding anniversary next week. My H (even after we're d'd) will always be my beloved H in my heart. I won't remarry even if I have other men in my life. I'm going to the church where we renewed our vows to say goodbye and ask God to help my H heal and find himself again. Can't tell you how much I miss the person he was. Everyone who knew him does.
I'm also thinking that I might apply for the Absolute which I can from 18th Oct. Unlike my H who filed without notice when I told him I was having cancer surgery (seriously, I don't even have a word for the kind of man who would do that), I would email him to let him know just before I did it. It would be a big 180 for me! But feels like it's time to take some pride back, to choose for myself rather than wait for a bit of paper to arrive. Or not. Time to accept that my H is gone and may never be the man I loved again, and to step towards a new future. And let's face it, MLC-H is no prize at all, even as a human being let alone a partner! It has also made me realise that the relationship was always more important to me than being married.
My gut instinct is that D is necessary for him and, strangely, I think he will pop up again in my life next year...but I'm living on the assumption that I won't see him again if that makes sense? I know my H loved me in his bones and if he ever comes out of the fog, he will need to see me and talk to me. He will need closure of some sort. If he doesn't, I can live with that too.
So, I'm feeling fine and quite strong. Which is lovely after 2 years of hell.
Hi Treasur,
I'm sorry that you've gone through all of that horrid mess yet I'm pleased for you that you have found your old self.
I cannot begin to imagine how you feel, but I'm grateful that you have shared your story - it really helps to learn from the other side.
Treasure,
What a great update! You sound fabulous and detached and not angry and bitter. That is just awesome.
Thank you, NuHeart and Gordie. I'm sure there will be up and down days too, but I'm honestly amazed to get to this point. There were plenty of times when I thought the grief and MLC confusion would kill me. But, here I am - yay!
Yup, there you go...a gulp moment.
H was supposed to email me a draft 'to do' list re house sale and his new proposal on financial stuff today. (Actually, a week ago but..hey ho, MLC right?) Bear in mind that he filed in Jan and then avoided the process completely until June...but really wants to 'move on' with the D...
He sent a word doc with 8 items on it..and no financial stuff. Email exchange as follows
Me: Thank you. Will you send over the financial stuff before we talk too?
H: I thought it would be easier to talk about that tomorrow. Make it more collaborative.
Me: Collaborative might be a stretch as I never wanted any of this, but see it more as dealing with a ridiculous crazy mess!I’d prefer it if you did as you said you would and sent over your thoughts this evening. That will give me time to think too. Doesn’t need to be a letter, bullet points are fine.
I’ll drop the non-financial stuff into a spreadsheet and add anything missing, and send it over to you by lunchtime tomorrow so we can work off the same list. Hope that will be helpful.
Good thing about where I am now is that I don't really care what he thinks because I'm no longer trying to save our M. So I can be as blunt or me-ish as I want, which is much more relaxing.
Bad thing is I still had one of those 'catch your breath' moments that we all get when your heart just gulps at the reality of it. I know some of you know what this feels like.
Good thing is that I know logically that disconnecting myself financially and practically from the hot mess of my STBXH is necessary.
Bad thing is that it needs courage and I'm so tired of being brave. It is really painful to know that I will be talking to MLC-H about disentangling 20 years of our life 2 days before our 14th wedding anniversary. Really bad thing is knowing that my original H would have found this as horrific as I do but my MLC-H doesn't care and probably doesn't even remember that it's our anniversary soon.
Good thing is that my head is in charge right now and I can do this because the logic is SO loud and clear.
To be honest, in the very unlikely event that he comes out of the fog ever/before he dashes into marrying OW, it's necessary to protect some resources to rebuild with because he is a whisker from bankruptcy! If not, it's a platform for me to build on alone. I'm not even sure how you ream through tens of thousands of pounds in a year and build up huge cc debt when you're living rent and bill free in two houses courtesy of an aunt and OW at weekends...drugs, OW, expensive psychiatrist, nice holidays, who knows?
I keep saying to myself that each action is one less thing to do again. But I'm a bit exasperated with myself that it still hurts and feels so shocking. I suppose that getting divorced from my beloved H is the price I pay for freedom from MLC-H who is a lying, unfaithful, irresponsible, destructive man-child. I just wish I didn't feel so sad about also losing hope in seeing my honest, loyal, loving H ever again too. I almost wish my quiet reflections had led me to believe that my H was truly a rotten person and we had a lousy M before this crisis...but he wasn't and it wasn't.
Know it's the best I can do. Know it's wise. Know that it's necessary. Just hate feeling sad and that I'm the only one who feels it.
Going out for a walk on the beach to keep reminding myself that this is not my H, that MLC is crazy and not about me, and the current face of my H is a really rotten kind of person and I deserve much better...
Any encouraging messages from any of you who have been divorced by your MLCer, especially a vanishing/silent one would be really helpful! It does feel a bit mad that I'm getting divorced by someone who has never even bothered to tell me why...
Treasure,
Hugs to you. I know all the feelings you describe. Even the ones about H filing and then not following through with the actual paperwork! Ack.
I love that you express that you did love that man and that you did love that m. That it wasn't a big fantasy, but that it was in fact real and worth cherishing. It's just heartbreaking that it is now gone.
I know country music isn't big in the U.K. but listen to "Better Man" by Little Big Town. It's cathartic. The bravest thing you have ever done is run from this mess, as hard as it is to do that. You can say you tried your best.
Peace unto you.
Oh, FFS, MLCers just are the pits...
Came back from my walk to find an email from my F***tard H, same one who said he would send some draft £ thoughts over, same one who said 'family issues' had stopped him doing so but he would definitely do today in advance of us talking tomorrow.
H: Ok. The reality is that my solicitor has advised me very strongly that anything in writing about financials should come from her and that I shouldn't put anything in writing.
What I can say is that with the news about the house the areas that I think we have left to discuss are pension and house proceeds.
The way I see it we will talk on the phone, hopefully come to an agreement and then have our respective solicitors draft it for agreement.
So, he even lied about doing that. What do we all say, I know, believe nothing they say and only 50% of what they do. I took a deep breath....and completely lost patience. (This may be my own final FFS bit of Letting Go!) I replied:
Ok. I understand what you say. It is why I said clearly in an earlier email that we both undertook that any email exchanges were draft ideas and neither of us would use them in a legal situation. I had hoped to resolve the financial issues - pension and impact on my state pension, house equity, the household account, a rebalancing of money you have taken from our marital pot, the difference between my joint support in paying towards your grandmother’s care vs your lack of support for your mother-in-law’s care, my watch vs your request for your wedding ring, the liability of a diabetic cat and the recognition that you did extremely well as a young man from substantial assets I shared openly with you as well as the difference in our current financial circumstances.
Since this situation began, I have behaved with fairness and transparency even when you ignored every attempt I made to communicate practically. For months at a time. By comparison, you have stonewalled me, left me in practical, legal and emotional limbo, lied, been unfaithful, broken endless promises, ignored most deadlines, filed for divorce when I told you I was having cancer surgery, taken financial shared resources for your own use and thrown my watch in the Thames.
It seems to me that there is a clear difference between how trustworthy our behaviour to date has been.
If, as your message suggests, you are now saying that you do not trust ME at my word to exchange some ideas in advance of talking, then I find that offensive. Having ended our marriage by simply refusing to speak to me for months, this feels highly manipulative on your part. And I am way past giving you the benefit of the doubt because you have done some truly rotten things. This was not who you were but it is who you are choosing to be, for whatever reason. Every time I try to respond to inch us forward out of this mess, it seems to me that you are adopting your parents’ wonderful habit of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory by throwing up barriers. It is beyond exasperating and I genuinely do not know what to do with this madness anymore.
it is quite unreasonable that you should expect me to discuss such important issues on the hoof without time to prepare my thoughts, particularly when your solicitor has still only prised partial financial information from you on things like credit card statements and the Barclays shares you sold.
It would seem we are at an impasse. I will take some time to think what I need to do now.
Back to my legal/practical drawing board, I guess. I'll take a few days and some advice from my L to figure out what I need to do to get out of this mess while my STBXH continues to do everything he can to get in the way of his own divorce and drags us into spending thousands on Ls. Aaaargh...how did this become my life! Right now, it would be better for me if he just got run over by a bus.
T. So sorry to hear fu*#wit husband is out in full force. You are being so good about working your way through this. I get the ups and downs. I always seem to get messed up after communication with mine. Like you, I don't get the fact they claim they want the divorce then disappear, and then stall and don't cooperate. WTF? Also don't get the lack of common courtesy to let us know when they "change their mind" and suddenly file for divorce, divorce Nisi, etc. Classic. Oye. Don't get me started.
Please don't file for Absolute as knee jerk reaction. You still have to settle financially regardless. Does part of you think if you do it may give him a jolt? I have thought about it that way. Or, would that protect you if he needs to file bankruptcy?
Just get through next week. Hope we are still meeting on Friday. We need a time. 12:30? Did you mean ticket office at main train station or tube station? Is there only one? Never been there. Are we still on? Are we 3 or do we have any others who want to join?
He's hiding something, something big. I don't know how it is in Europe but here in the states the judges frown very hard on moving/spending/hiding funds within the marital boundaries. He's probably stalling and hoping it just goes away, very common in avoidance folks. I like the "tone" in your posts, strong and detached.
1200 at main train station? I'll be there citygrl.
It is frustrating, standard MLC s**te though, isn't it? Full of stupidity and narcissism. And thinking that we will still be the 'nice wife'...
I do need to figure out how to settle financially and deal with the house sale in a way that requires minimal action from STBXH because he just lies and can't be relied on to do even simple things. (Wish the alien mothership would return the original!)
What I've learned is to breathe and do nothing for a few days so I can give myself time to figure it out. I'll do that and ignore him. I have my mail set up so his goes to a separate folder. If he calls this evening, as I suspect he will, I'll ignore it. Most likely we'll just have to go back to the L route.
He may file for Absolute anyway especially if he's p'd off. There is just a part of me that thinks I should end the chaos he started but I don't need to decide that until next month - few days after my birthday and BD anniversary - yay!
Thanks, psysara - possible, although there isn't much left to hide! Doesn't matter really (see I've handed in my mind-reading turban!) just need to figure out the best process from here for me.
Thanks Gordie - will listen now with my morning cup of coffee
Read this quote on another site. Mantra for this week, I think.
" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor
Off for a run and then a bubble bath!
Thats a good quote i may steal that!
I've found (no idea how) that I seem to have got to that sweet spot of Both/And detachment. I absolutely accept I can't resurrect my family or my life pre-BD, and that I cannot prevent my much-loved H from the effects of his own chaos. I need to protect me, of course, and sometimes the current truth of what I'm dealing with does make me angry or sad or uncertain.
I know now that my M is over, or will be soon. I don't know what will happen to my H. I may never know. I don't know what will unfold for me next either, but it feels more likely to be good things because I'm not in crisis! I also know that, no matter who else I love in different ways, my love for my H is written on my bones. So I will deal with the legal stuff with my head and let my heart guide me to be kind about all the other things that won't damage me, but might matter to my H if he ever comes out of the fog. In some ways, once we get past the worst of the pain and the fear, and really let go, it becomes much simpler.
Treassur i have read your thread our situation is slibhtly different but depression of our spouse is the common pt. Your comments have slowing changed you have really started to look towards yourself and the best thing for you. I wish you further success at making possitive changes for yourself and hope in the near future i can do the same.
Thank you so much, Nrthman. I've certainly learned that depression is a lot more shouty and complex than just eating cake in your pjs in front of the tv!!
I think it is really tricky to work out how to deal with adult things like money, houses and legal stuff when someone is suffering from severe depression. They either avoid things or flip-flop around, and their brains seem to be a bit like cheese with holes.
Has your spouse been diagnosed and are they getting treatment? (Although tbh I think my H's psychiatrist has made some things worse and I'm not sure his ADs have helped the pitch much, just made him emotionally numb and fat with erection problems! Oh, ok, that last one is a plus for me if a minus for him and OW - LOL) Detaching and accepting you cannot fix their depression is tough but necessary.
My w knows she has issues. At this time just retreats to a room at night and most weekends. Has contact with kids but always seems to come off the tracks and again back to the room at her moms place.
Detaching is the biggest problem i have....
Just working to keep my kids on track 17b showing some major stress at home and school. He plays football and is being looked at by multiple schools not a time for things to be tough on him...although it has made him a beast on the field almost to aggressive.
How does she react if you ask her to think about getting medical help? (Without mentioning depression, of course!)
Treasur,
This is such an apt description
They either avoid things or flip-flop around, and their brains seem to be a bit like cheese with holes.
Ok, unless the preview screen is bonkers I may have finally figured out how to quote (but of course I haven't figured it out with the poster's name yet. Baby steps.
Yes, my H avoids everything. And he flip flops. Then he forgets what he just said or did. I always joke that every 5 minutes he is a new guy.
You still have lots of feeling and emotions about your H. Mine is no longer about love or hope, but more just logistical and trying to find ways to live my life with as little interference from him as possible. I think you'll be able to let go of the pain soon, I really do. i see the sun peaking over the horizon and it looks quite beautiful from here.
Heartbreaking. Got this email, written at 0230 this morning.
Dear W
It's very late or very early, depending on your point of view I guess. And I'm sitting here wondering what has happened to get us to where we are. Listening to Mumford and sons first album on repeat for the third or fourth time. What's going round and round in my head is that this is all so silly. So very silly. And it's left me reflecting on how we got here and how it happened.
Over the past few months I've thought long and hard about my behaviour, my emotions and my feelings. What they've done to me. What they've done to you. I suppose most fundamentally what they've done to what remains of us. And the truth is I'm sorry for what I've done and for the things I haven't done. It's made a hard situation harder. I think at times neither of us have covered ourselves in glory, but I can clearly see my part in that and apologise. I could spend hours writing an excuse for it, and I have had my share of struggles to contend with along the way, but ultimately they're not the point.
And of course it's made me reflect on the past 20 years. A long time. On the good times and the bad and all of the things that have led to the now. And I suppose the now is what matters when alls said and done. I need to move on. You need to move on. We have talked and talked and emailed and texted and we're still stuck. In my reflections I've come to appreciate how very hard that must have been for you with everything else you have to contend with, and again, I apologise. The time for that talking has passed. We are different people now. We have both evolved, and I don't think either of us want to be stuck anymore going round and round and round in circles. We both need to go forward into whatever comes next.
And I don't altogether know what comes next for me. I might be running away and I might be moving forward but I'm looking at a new job which might be in a new country. Maybe it'll happen and maybe it won't but for me it feels like moving on.
And I guess it means we need to come to an agreement about how we split things up. I'll get my solicitor to send through what I hope will be a definitive settlement offer. It'll be fair, certainly fairer than they recommend, and a reflection of how things were for what I think of as both halves of our marriage. It'll probably take a few days but it will give us the chance to move on down the separate paths of our lives.
There is still a part of me that hopes when things are all settled and finished that we might be able to sit across a table with a cup of coffee and talk as two people. Who shared a lot together. Good things and bad things. Happy times and sad. Whether it happens in a month, a year or longer. But I don't know if that'll happen. And I can be at peace with it either way.
I think that sleep might come now that I've written this. So I suppose the best thing to say is goodnight.
H
I replied
Dear H
I don’t know what to say. I don’t know what to do. Thank you for writing it though.
Ah Treasur, this would be hard. I NEVER get anything like this. You keep saying that he left without telling you why. That may be true, but most never get even this much.
Sorry to say, but while heart-felt, there is MLC script here big time. The first that jumps out at me is saying that going back seems too difficult and that wiping the slate clean seems easier. The second is that he seems to be one of those that thinks he needs the divorce in order to move past this emptiness inside him. At least he recognizes that it could be running away and may not solve the problems.
You know, and everyone here knows, that once he gets that divorce he will feel free for 6 months or so and then his world will truly crash down on him with the enormity of what he has done. He has to walk those steps though. You can't stop him. You can't save him from the pain.
I would not respond. It seems this has been hard on him and he wants to be honorable. Give him a break from the texting and talking and let him put through his agreement to the solicitor. Respond in kind. Let him take this next step that he thinks he needs.
Remember with love and kindness the man who is at least present enough to communicate these things and to recognize that it may not be the answer and that he feels a desire to meet with you again.
This really does explain why this has been so hard on you. There is clearly a decent person in there somewhere. As hard as it is, let him figure out that getting rid of you was not the answer. You know that you get to decide when he leaves your heart, not him.
You're so right, OwnIt. It was a surprise. It shouts MLC. He is a decent person. I need to let him go. I think he'll always be in my heart but I need to let him go to fix himself or not.
I'm posting this exchange really as a bit of MLC sharing. I'm not trying to save my M. Too late for that, but it might help others to read. I'm not sure I'll stay on this forum for much longer either
I thought hard, and did reply, because there are so many practical things that have kept us stuck, not just legal stuff. My reply is in bold.
Dear W
It's very late or very early, depending on your point of view I guess. And I'm sitting here wondering what has happened to get us to where we are. Listening to Mumford and sons first album on repeat for the third or fourth time. What's going round and round in my head is that this is all so silly. So very silly. And it's left me reflecting on how we got here and how it happened. It is all so silly, I agree. It’s been bewildering. I listen to After the Storm a lot.
Over the past few months I've thought long and hard about my behaviour, my emotions and my feelings. What they've done to me. What they've done to you. I suppose most fundamentally what they've done to what remains of us. And the truth is I'm sorry for what I've done and for the things I haven't done. It's made a hard situation harder. I think at times neither of us have covered ourselves in glory, but I can clearly see my part in that and apologise. I could spend hours writing an excuse for it, and I have had my share of struggles to contend with along the way, but ultimately they're not the point. It has been much harder than maybe either of us wished, but in the end it is as it is. Good and bad. I’m sorry for the things I’ve done which have added to that, but I just flailed around not knowing what to do. To be honest, I had a breakdown. The multiple grief and confusion was too much for me. But last week I woke up and felt like me again which is nice. This storm has battered me but it hasn’t broken me.
And of course it's made me reflect on the past 20 years. A long time. On the good times and the bad and all of the things that have led to the now. And I suppose the now is what matters when alls said and done. I need to move on. You need to move on. We have talked and talked and emailed and texted and we're still stuck. In my reflections I've come to appreciate how very hard that must have been for you with everything else you have to contend with, and again, I apologise. The time for that talking has passed. We are different people now. We have both evolved, and I don't think either of us want to be stuck anymore going round and round and round in circles. We both need to go forward into whatever comes next. We are stuck. Recently I’ve wondered even if there is something subconscious or unfinished which is making us both choose to stick. I don’t know. We do both need to move on into whatever comes next. I don’t know what that is or if our separate paths will stay separate forever or evolve in a different way. I don’t know. Talking isn’t always the answer is it? You’re probably right that the time for some talk has passed; maybe for other things not, but not yet. I don’t know. We have both evolved, big crises do that, but I guess there is a core which remains too. This note sounds like some of you. I hope I sound like me too. I might like to be the one who applies for the Absolute, I’m not sure. I don’t know how you feel about that. I think we have to finish this phase to get to the next whatever it is. A fresh start.
And I don't altogether know what comes next for me. I might be running away and I might be moving forward but I'm looking at a new job which might be in a new country. Maybe it'll happen and maybe it won't but for me it feels like moving on. I hope it gives you what you want and that you will find what you’re looking for and be happy in your skin again.
And I guess it means we need to come to an agreement about how we split things up. I'll get my solicitor to send through what I hope will be a definitive settlement offer. It'll be fair, certainly fairer than they recommend, and a reflection of how things were for what I think of as both halves of our marriage. It'll probably take a few days but it will give us the chance to move on down the separate paths of our lives. I don’t know if the timing of your new job affects the practical stuff. Our old relationship is dead now, and it feels unimportant in some ways to be fighting over stuff and money. But I suppose it just comes with divorce, like a funeral. If we are both in a different place now, would it help to talk through things - money and what we can both do to make things easier now with all the detritus - before we get lawyers involved? To make a simple plan together that will work for us both finally? To listen to each other so we can each get what we truly need practically. Just to be less silly and make the ‘to do’ list easier. Selling two houses, getting divorced and my mother’s legal stuff all at once is pretty overwhelming for me. Call me if you want to do that. We could even talk on the 12th, a different kind of anniversary perhaps.***
There is still a part of me that hopes when things are all settled and finished that we might be able to sit across a table with a cup of coffee and talk as two people. Who shared a lot together. Good things and bad things. Happy times and sad. Whether it happens in a month, a year or longer. But I don't know if that'll happen. And I can be at peace with it either way. I’d like that too. Maybe it is part of the journey. The silence was always your choice, I think, so I’ll leave it up to you if you ever want to do it. Like you, I will be ok either way.
How did you react viscerally to that email? I read it and thought it could be coming my way from my husband. Don't know if I am projecting my experience but I hate the way they sound like they are controlling the situation and we are the poor pitiful wives they have left behind that can't help loving them still because they are so great. Not sure how they reconcile that as they also know they are messed up.
Agree that, hopefully, sooner rather than later and after the Absolute it will hit them,
(Yes, sometimes little bitter vindictive me comes out.) but I don't believe in karma because I don't think I did anything that horrific to deserve the emotional carnage wracked upon me.
It must have been nice to get some sort of acknowledgement from him and the glimpse of old husband. I hope it brought you some comfort. I usually end up a bit confused after contact as it hits home how unnecessary the entire situation is. I think what they don't get is that they are fools for running away. If they had turned to us as their spouse, support network, and loving friend, so much of this could have been avoided or handled differently.
You seem to have your head on straight and you detachment armour on. Do keep us posted. You are going through this with a lot of maturity and class. I know you want to beam him at times!
"How did you react viscerally to that email?"
It made me sad, deeply sad. It felt like a glimmer of the person I love, but I can also see that he's still running.
"It must have been nice to get some sort of acknowledgement from him"
I don't know. It was a surprise. I'm not sure I see much acknowledgement of me or our marriage or that he ever loved me. I do see acknowledgement that he has regrets and things he now thinks he should have done differently, although not what they are. I see that he feels he can't go back and sees only a solo route forward. In so many ways, NC is easier because this kind of thing forces you to look the loss in the eye. I feel sad.
"You seem to have your head on straight and you detachment armour on."
Not sure about that. I think I've just learned to accept the reality of what is while feeling the pain that it is, if that makes sense. To focus on what I can do because there is so much I can't control or influence. To accept that the behaviours, emotions and feelings he talks about rewrote my life but they are still unknown to me. That my H decided somehow at some point that I was irrelevant to him. That he obviously still thinks I am irrelevant in his future. The bit I'm most proud of? That I didn't bite on his comment about "what remains of us". I really wanted to, to ask or challenge or shout, but I didn't.
I am full of sorrow today, beyond tears. And tomorrow is my anniversary. But I have learned that I can keep going, so that's something.
Treasur, I'm thinking about you and hoping that you are doing ok. I know that yesterday was so incredibly difficult and I imagine that today is as well.
To know that you were loved and that he is lost has to bring comfort. My greatest sadness is that sometimes I believe my H meant it when he said he never loved me and he just settled right from the beginning. At least yours clearly loved and still loves you.
Take care of yourself and remember that not all of this has to be figured out right now and you always have the right to change your mind in the future, as does he.
Treasur, I'm thinking about you and hoping that you are doing ok. I know that yesterday was so incredibly difficult and I imagine that today is as well.
To know that you were loved and that he is lost has to bring comfort. My greatest sadness is that sometimes I believe my H meant it when he said he never loved me and he just settled right from the beginning. At least yours clearly loved and still loves you.
Thank you, OwnIt. I don't see that he still loves me, tbh. I'm surprised you think that. I see that he's stewing and starting to feel regret so I am probably no longer irrelevant/invisible in his head. But I don't see love, I see a sort of 'well, there you go' shrug!
I'm ok (happy anniversary to me). I miss him. I haven't sent a card or text as I did last year. I'm just taking the day to feel grateful for the love we had, and the great person who used to share my life. A dear friend called me this morning - isn't that kind? - and her take is that, once the D stuff is done, he will have no reason to be in touch with me. That this will be the point when it hits him and she thinks he'll reappear wanting to talk in a few months. Me? I'm done mind-reading so I'm pressing forward with the assumption that I'll never see him again. Just like he died.
Take care of yourself and remember that not all of this has to be figured out right now and you always have the right to change your mind in the future, as does he.
Thinking of you today. I find my anniversary particularly difficult. Mostly, I think how can H just not get it? I also make sure I am out and that charge goes on joint credit card. Immature but don't care. Mine is just around the corner.
Take a walk before torrential showers begin again!
Treasur. You have been quiet. How was Tuesday?
See you tomorrow.
I'm ok. Drowning in paperwork because crappy H has created chaos and left everything to last minute. He is now doing fake normal emails about house sale stuff, like a puppy going 'look at me, I can do responsibility now'....which makes me feel really angry bizarrely.
After 2 f**king years.
It's like the roller coaster may slow down and be on an even plane and then it ratchets back up again. I am in a self imposed calm. We shall see how long that lasts.
How will I recognise you? I will either be wearing long red slicker or ??? and most likely a lot of black. Have no idea what to wear. Weather is crazy. Will also be loitering by ticket booth. Blonde hair, hopefully dry and not to rain drenched. If I remember I will put sunglasses on head, rain or shine.
Me brunette, wearing a camel coloured coat probably - oh Gucci handbag!
Ok. The coat thing is hanging me up. Get it? Meaning, have no idea what coat I should wear as fickle weather and too early for my winter coat so either black trench, black sweater coat, tan raincoat or black North Face. Geeese it's hard here. Freezing when I leave, warm and rainy/sunny on London, freezing when I get home. How do you all do it? I should have had this sorted by now.
I am easier to spot. I am gorgeous! Everybody will be staring and taking pictures of my beauty. Ha ha ha. I'll be the one with the coat dilemma. Black heavy handbag as have to carry umbrella. It better rain!
See ya. 😀
Hi Treasur/Citygrl
I am so sorry I can't make the meet. My S got a bit of plastic stuck inside his eyelid yesterday and I spent most of the day in eye casualty which has put me right back. I hope you guys find each other ok and have a wonderful afternoon. I will definitely be there next time. SJ x
Completely understand xxx
Well citygrl is as blonde, cute and sassy as she sounds! It was lovely to meet IRL.
Got me thinking though on the train journey back about where I am on my LBS journey and what I (think) I've learned. About me, my H and MLC. About life and what matters to me now.
(My H is currently being a mix of polite puppy emails about practical D stuff, quick flash of self-pitying Monster because I'm being more blunt about the 'to do' list and another navel-gazing early morning email which I've not even read.)
Does it matter if it is MLC? I think it's natural to try to find an explanation when someone changes dramatically after a long marriage. You're in shock so you flail around trying to find your own answer to the 'WTF just happened' question. You google everything, invest in endless books and try to talk to your spouse. Maybe you snoop. Maybe you set fire to your wedding photos. You send emails into fat silence and bore your friends. You try on a whole bunch of different 'this is what it is' hats. You look back to see if the life you thought you lived was real and you hunt for a hopeful door out. Ideally one coming up soon. And you're doing this at the same time as being punched over and over again in the face by the person you trusted most, when you're not sleeping, not eating and not even breathing properly.
My two years, looking back, went in phases. Each one was about 3-4 months. We all call it the rollercoaster for good reason and we all know what it feels like. My H fell apart in front of me and was diagnosed with severe depression/anxiety...so I learned about depression and waited for the magic pills/therapy to work. Then I learned about depression fallout as he popped his shark eyed head out of the undergrowth and tried to focus on how I could change my behaviour in response. Then it got crazier (as if a spouse ending a marriage by sending you to Coventry was crazy enough) and it became about death threats and realising he had an OW so I started to DB and focus on my survival. Then D entered the mix and things got crazier still as I had to focus on the practical stuff of being divorced against my will by someone who was a silent vanisher...and then the next series of shock waves from the disclosure process about OW, stealing money, fraud, drugs....blah, blah. Now I think I'm dealing with MLC because it's the only thing that seems to 'fit' what I'm experiencing, so I learn about stages and behaviours and replay and monster spew. MLC makes sense, but it also might just be a placebo to make me feel better about the unacceptable and it definitely makes me think that 5-7 years is an impossible challenge. That it is just too hard to see a better shared future so it is time to walk away more than let go.
With each phase, you get more and more tired. Tired of the crazy. Tired of hope hurting. Tired of being brave. Tired of being a victim and collateral damage. Tired of trying to make sense of things that make no sense. Tired of feeling love, anger, compassion and despair all at the same time. You GAL and journal and post and ruminate like a motherf**ker...but can't seem to break out of a new crazy normal. You let go, you detach, then you don't, then you try again. You realise that it is killing you and all you have done so far is survive. Which is no mean feat...but not enough.
And then you trip over a bit of solid ground when you realise that you get to choose the story of what happened in a way that makes sense to you. Even if you know it might not be the whole 'truth'. A story that you think you can live with without your brain frazzling, that protects the things that matter to you, that feels healthy for you. You breathe out.
Each of us will pick different stories. Mine? I choose to trust my instinct that the person I knew loved me and my M was a good one. That my H had broken bits that could not withstand a tough time in our life and that he spun off into some kind of identity crisis, and he chose to deal with it by destroying twenty years of his life and our M. That he became a different version of himself, a self-destructive and self-obsessed man child, who did not care about anything or anyone. The person I knew no longer exists and there is nothing I can do about it. No amount of love, logic, compassion or action on my part will make any difference. MLC makes sense of the non-sense for me even if others don't believe in it. He may return to life. He may not. He may be happy. He may not. His story is his own and unlikely to be the same as mine. I may never know what really happened and I may never know what happens to him.
Meanwhile, on my side of the street, I still have to deal with all of the collateral damage whether I like it or not. I have to find a way to package an unbearable reality while focusing on what next. I decide to think of my H as dead so I can treasure my memories, think of his face with love and smile. I accept that divorce means dealing with MLC H and that it will be easier when I no longer have to. I stop trying to mind read or guess what will happen to him or if there will be a post-MLC H, let alone what he will look like. I accept that I am choosing to create my own kind of crazy cognitive dissonance where an H who loves me is as real as an anti-H who is indifferent (at best) to my existence. I know that's a bit weird so I don't tell many people but decide that if that's what I need to think to live with what's happened to me, that's fine.
I decide to stand for my right to love my H and treasure our relationship, but no longer stand for my marriage. I accept that my MLC H has destroyed his 50% of the last 20 years and 100% of a shared future, but I refuse to allow him to take my 50% or to shape my 100% of my future.
I'm not going to post much more here in DB. Partly because I don't think I'm DBing now. Partly because in the short-term while I'm still having to interact with what looks like an MLC spouse, I'm finding the another forum more focused on that. I haven't been here long but I wanted to say thank you to all of you for sharing your struggles and experiments and route maps, and thank you to those of you who have listened to mine.
Treasure,
You are awesome and you are a great writer. I love how you have decided to frame your own story. History belongs to the victors and you are your own victor. And no, keep your 50% of the past and 100% of your future. That is so inspiring. I recently met with a friend and wants to tell him what is going on and had a lot of those same conversations with myself. How do Inmake sense of the senseless and tell my own story? Thank you for sharing yours. I have found a lot of support on the MLC forum where there are various states of pre and post d efforts going on. I hope you find a forum that helps you where you are now.
Hello Treasur. I'm so happy to read your latest update. It sounds as if meeting Citygrl allowed for a reality check and gave you the confidence to leave the stage of healing that you've been in behind you.
I accept that I am choosing to create my own kind of crazy cognitive dissonance where an H who loves me is as real as an anti-H who is indifferent (at best) to my existence. I know that's a bit weird so I don't tell many people but decide that if that's what I need to think to live with what's happened to me, that's fine.
I don't think that's weird at all. What happened to you is simply not as straight forward as other relationships ending. It was quick and sudden and there was mental illness involved. Personally, I believe your "crazy cognitive dissonance" is the truth and the most realistic explanation. In other words, I don't think it's crazy at all.
I accept that my MLC H has destroyed his 50% of the last 20 years and 100% of a shared future, but I refuse to allow him to take my 50% or to shape my 100% of my future.
This is a fantastic way to put it.
Treasur, I just want you to know that reading your story and how you've been processing it (including the highs and the lows) has helped me make sense of my own story.
This post is particularly inspiring to me, and I hope - wherever you go - I'll still be able to read your stories. Maybe you'll just move over to the MLC forum here?
Treasur...... OH what a treasure is this post!
Please, please, please don't just disappear! Consider moving to the MLC forum here, or at least leave BIG bread crumb hints behind to help your friends find you in your new "place".
I value your input, I love to read your words, and I think you should strongly consider penning them into your own book someday. Although I say that frequently to you and a couple of other posters, I don't say it lightly AT ALL. I mean it. I love nothing more than great groups of words. They are like music to me, and mean almost as much. They help me make sense out of this crazy life and give me ways to express my often dramatic feelings without feeling over-dramatic.
I'm SO glad you got to meet IRL. There is no other experience that I've had that quite compared to that. I think it's invaluable to feel you know someone so well from reading their innermost thoughts for months, and find out they are EXACTLY as special as you thought they would be.
Oh the places you'll go...... I feel so positive about the road before you. You're going to have a wonderful, full, happy life.
Please check in now and then, even if you leave the forum. I need you.
((((( Treasur/TREASURE )))))))
Hi Treasur. So glad we were able to meet in person. Thank you for your honesty and kindness. I hope we stay in touch. I am always here if you ever need to talk in person.
I, too, hope you don't swear off this site. You write and express yourself and so many feelings that others share but may not articulate so so well. Reading your posts have really helped me and I appreciate your input and views.
Your story is still relevant and important to so many. I know this for certain as I have been reading for four years on this site and just started posting. I am sure I am not alone.
I don't think it is unusual to take a break from posting and reading but I can tell you people, me included, do want to follow you and your story. We all become so attached. Please keep us posted even if a lot of time has passed but most importantly take care of yourself.
Keep your light shining. Hugs.
Thought I'd pop back in to say goodbye and thank you.
I'm finally up off my knees, having learned more about MLC and my own resilience than I really wanted to! Not sure on the details of what 2018 will hold for me but it will be better. Life in my little house by the sea continues to be a good thing. The turning point for me, the point at which my head came up again, was really when I accepted the reality of MLC and the limits of what I could do. Taking my eyes off my H's life and letting him go with love saved me. Detachment saved my sanity first and then gave me a way to look past the losses to what comes next.
And my H? I have little information. His divorce is almost done. Some recent surprising events showed that he may be at the early stages of finding his way out of his crisis, but his life is far from good. A few conversations over New Year taught me that the MLC playbook is surprisingly accurate about everything from a disordered ow who turned out to have stolen from him and lied to him, the depth of anger he felt as a driving emotion and the timing of first glimmers of regret, perhaps even shame. I have no idea what will happen to him but I hope he eventually recovers and becomes the man he was always supposed to be.
Treasur, I'm glad you seem to be in a better place and have accepted your path.
Don't be a stranger. You may be able to help others who are dealing with a MLC spouse.