My wife and I will be married 7 years on Sept 18th. We have 4 boys together and 2 made by her and I.
In June my wife informed she was fed and and she was never in love with me. She told me that she had feelings for an old boyfriend from 17 years ago and she couldn't understand why they feeling never went away. She informed me that she felt like we weren't meant to be and she felt that we were disconnected.
We had a bunch of talks, which was me approaching her about the relationship and that seem to keep pushing her further and further away. During those conversations she told me she felt like I didn't provide her security and protections and I didn't understand her values.
During our talks also informed her she should to see the other guy and found out what she wanted to do (a stupid decision on my part)
She started talking back to her on boyfriend he lives in Maryland we live in San Antonio. Her sister was traveling the East Coast, so she took a trip to go visit her sister and her sister friend in July and they all met in Maryland. We she got back I asked her did she see him she told me no.
This past Monday I got into her phone and found out she did in fact actually see him. On her FB messenger they were telling each other they love each other. After I found out, I was heated I told her to get her things and get out. After about 15 mins, I calmed down and told her I wasn't mad and we talked about it and she informed me she think she is in love with him. She went in the closet and prayed and asked GOD for forgiveness. That night she informed me she knew what she had to do with the other guy since she was still married.
Also during the episode after I found about her and the OM, she informed me it worried her that I was so calm. Only thing I can think of why I was so calm is because of GOD's grace on me.
The next day we talked and she informed me she told the other guy she is wants to be by herself to work on herself. She told me she didn't feel the way about me the way I feel about her. She said that her the other guy hasn't something me and her don't have, (a friendship). I still know she is communicating with him.
During this time frame, I have been working on myself. I have lost 33 pounds and still losing I started going back to church and praying more. I feel happier and better. I'm very calm and I not to upset about much. It's a little freaky.
She hasn't ask for a divorce, moved out or starting packing her things.
I also have talk to 2 marriage coaches. The first one I talked to, told me to let ago (that was about 3 weeks ago). I don't think I fully let go like he informed me to do. I talked to another coach from divorce busting.com yesterday and he informed since my wife hasn't moved out, asked for a divorce and we are communicating and having a few long conversations to continue doing what I'm doing.
I have been helping out around the house more, smiling more, and helping with the boys more.
What plan do I follow, to try and fix my marriage?
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Hi Joejoe1,
Post more!
Maybe think about things from your wife's perspective. Why would she be upset or unhappy?
Would she say you've been critical? distant emotionally? Always trying to fix things instead of listening to her? Not helping around the house enough? controlling?
It's important to attempt to identify what she would say or think, regardless of whether you think those things about yourself.
Hi Joejoe 1,
Read and post repeat
Read and post repeat...
Look after yourself every situation is different. But a lot of the solutions are the same.
Good luck on your journey.
Fizzser,
She informed me that I broke her. I didn't value her or show her I cared. She gave me examples of why she thought I didnt care. She also informed that in had a know it attitude she hated that. I work to fix all those aspects. I agree with her that those trAits were horrible for a husband and a man to have.
We have been talking and holding conversations every night since Thursday. She has been cooking and cleaning the house. She has also been willing to discuss her feelings and going into exactly what I have done to her. But she still say shes moving on. She hasn't mentioned divorce throughout all of this.
She also asking for my help now. Which she wasn't doing for a while.
What are some steps I can take to turn this situation around. My DB coach told me to stay the course.
My WW hasn't demonstrated some of the symptoms of others, but who knows whats truthful or not.
I just want a plan.
Can someone give me advice?
Nrthman,
Thanks for the support and advice.
Joejoe1
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
My DB coach told me to stay the course.
I just want a plan.
Can someone give me advice?
#1 listen to your DB coach!
Don't believe anything she says.
Let her actions speak for her.
And the same goes for you
What do you want to accomplish with the plan?
Cadet,
I will continue to listen to my DB coach.
I want to keep my family in tact with any plan that will help do that.
Last night we cooperated all day to get things done around the house and get the kids ready for their first day of school. We conversated about all kind of subjects and laughed and flirted.
We watched Came of Thrones together last night as well.
We also had sex. I don't take this as anything more than lust at this point.
I received my DR book in the mail yesterday so I will start on that today.
Any advice helps at this point.
How should I view yesterday events?
How should I view yesterday events?
I think you said it well.
We also had sex. I don't take this as anything more than lust at this point.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS about these events.
She is just as confused as you are.
I think you should read the book at this point and then ALL the homework.
Then we can regroup and see what you should DO.
And understand that sometimes DOING NOTHING is really doing something.
Right now listen to your DB coach and stay the course.
Trust nothing she says. And you need to stop with all the trying to be understanding and allowing her to disrespect you. Being nice has won back no W on this board that I know of. Set boundaries immediately and be willing to lose this woman if she crosses that boundary.
Cadet & Tread,
She hasn't really said much about our future. I won't trust what she says until we talk about our future.
I have stayed away from relationship talks. Anytime we do talk about the R, it's her who initiate those conversations. I can't really read the her signs.
She's asking for help, she's talking about doing things with our house in the future. She coming around me more. I have not reacted to much she is doing, I have kept calm in all conversations. I have been positive about everything we talked about. She's leaving her phone all over the house and she's has not been attached to it like she was before D day. She also doesn't mind having me around now.
I have been going to church and praying on a regular basis.
I don't know if I'm being lured into a trap for a big announcement are figure out if she is coming around.
I don't allow her to disrespect me at all. She told me Saturday, one of the problems she had we me was that I was never understanding of nothing she said, and she was afraid to tell me things because, I would be negative and basically disregard all she said. She also informed me she hated when she tell me something and I would get defensive about everytime she tried to help me out or corrected something I did. She also told me all her friends didn't understand how we even met because, I was a know it all and took over all conversations. I really started to realize that people didn't like being around me, so I have to agree with her on those fronts, I have been fixing those aspects about myself.
The last thing I had a really big problem with is the relationship with my kids. I was very strict with them and they were afraid to come and talk to me. A now my step son, my wife first born, is afraid to even be by himself around me. I have been working on fixing that.
Joe
The last thing I had a really big problem with is the relationship with my kids.
I was very strict with them and they were afraid to come and talk to me.
A now my step son, my wife first born, is afraid to even be by himself around me.
I have been working on fixing that.
Good
Be the best DAD you can be
I have also notice, when my wife and I talk and I tell her the things I did wrong to her in a emphatic way she responds well and with more conversations. I took the "Is" out of the statements I make and put in "you's". For instance, "You didn't fell valued by me, you didn't deserve that." she responded to that better than, "I didn't value you I'm sorry". It's amazing how just changing up the way you communicate a statement changes the way a person responds.
Joe
So, I arrived home today and she seems to be in a horrible mood. Seems to me like she is trying to pick a fight or start an argument. Everytime I say something she replies with, "what did you just say and then gives me the side eye.
I'm just going to give her space. And stay as far away as possible.
The other thing is, she approached me to discuss her day. Off right?
I asked what's wrong twice. I think that was too many times.
I'm about to chill and watch tv with the kids.
Joe
This morning she was cool and calm. Still seemed like she didn't want to be bothered. We have been emailing back and forth about the kids, her college class, and a Kurig.
When I get off of work, I will be going to the gym to play basketball and sit in the Sauna.
I'm taking it day by day. I have been working on my patients. I really don't like not knowing what she is taking about our future. I hope she opens up about it soon.
Joejoe01
This morning she was cool and calm. Still seemed like she didn't want to be bothered. We have been emailing back and forth about the kids, her college class, and a Kurig.
When I get off of work, I will be going to the gym to play basketball and sit in the Sauna.
I'm taking it day by day. I have been working on my patients. I really don't like not knowing what she is taking about our future. I hope she opens up about it soon.
Joejoe01
Sounds like a plan.
With regards to the future -- instead of hoping for 'soon', maybe hope for 'eventually'. Soon might lead to disappointment. Eventually could be years and years, and you'll never be disappointed!
My W opened up about her plans for her future warning me about court documents.
So, I arrived home today and she seems to be in a horrible mood. Seems to me like she is trying to pick a fight or start an argument.
Just remember:
Detached =
W happy = Joe happy
W sad = Joe happy
W mad = Joe happy
Everytime I say something she replies with, "what did you just say and then gives me the side eye.
I'm just going to give her space. And stay as far away as possible.
Yup, sounds like that's what she wanted. You don't have to be rude or anything, just go about your business.
I asked what's wrong twice. I think that was too many times.
Don't EVER ask that. When you ask someone that it immediately puts them on the defensive. You are telling them that -they- are wrong, their -feelings- are wrong, etc. Instead say something like "you seem upset, is that how you're feeling?" If she responds then validate, if she says "no I'm fine" then say "OK, well if you would like to talk then let me know" and go about the business of your awesome GAL'ing.
AnotherStander,
Great advice.
Fizzer,
I'm done talking about the relationship. We had a conversation this morning and she informed me that she still has feelings for a boyfriend she broke up with when she was 17th and for herself she has to figure out what's going on there. This is the OM. She still hasn't asked for a divorce or asked to move out. She is looking for a job to get her finances together so she can get an apartment or house.
Life is crazy. She tells me I had a chance to close off old relationships. She using my old relationships as reference points. I wonder if she could ever turn her heart back towards me. She informed me she can't think of any good or great times between us over the last 7 years.
I don't know what my approach should be at this point. I can see myself moving on, but I think I have to detach better. She tells me she her heart isn't in the marriage, but she doesn't move out. Sometimes I get the thought that I should just let her go figure out that this guy isn't for her. But that's for her to figure out.
This guy cheated on her when they were in high school and has been divorce twice. I like the thought of eventually and not soon.
Yesterday I went out and met up with a meet up.com group. They were cool peole but not my crowd. My wife seemed upset that I went out. I didnt care.
While I was outside landscaping before I went out our baby drank some of my cologne. We both went into parent mode. I think she might of been mad because I went out after that incident.
I returned home she was sitting on the couch on the computer, like she was waiting, which she never does. She stayed up real late after that. I dont knownhow to interpret that whole situation.
What do you all think?
Yesterday I went out and met up with a meet up.com group. They were cool peole but not my crowd. My wife seemed upset that I went out. I didnt care.
While I was outside landscaping before I went out our baby drank some of my cologne. We both went into parent mode. I think she might of been mad because I went out after that incident.
I returned home she was sitting on the couch on the computer, like she was waiting, which she never does. She stayed up real late after that. I dont knownhow to interpret that whole situation.
What do you all think?
You were really close to saving this very early on. That 15 minutes where you told her to pack her things and get out. That would have brought her out of the affair fog faster than anything. As is you backed off and now she's fully submerged in affair fog. She's a woman of faith? That's odd considering what she's doing carrying on this emotional affair is literally a path straight to hell in pretty much all 3 of the major religions. Is she ok with eternity in hell? That's not coming from me, I'm not a person of faith, but if she is then she has to know what adultery leads.
It sounds like you're doing what you can. Stick with it. Work on yourself. DON'T be a doormat. Nobody respects a doormat and nobody can love someone they don't respect. You were very firm and not a doormat for about 15 minutes but then backtracked. It's ok, it happens. I was a doormat for almost 3 years. Once I stopped being a doormat that snapped my cheating wife out of her fog. Good luck.
TXhubby,
I think you are right. I should of let her leave. I have been detaching and doing 180s.
What did you do specifically to snap your wife out of her fog?
And how did it take for your method to work?
TXhubby,
I think you are right. I should of let her leave. I have been detaching and doing 180s.
What did you do specifically to snap your wife out of her fog?
And how did it take for your method to work?
I did everything wrong at first. She got busted by our neighbor cheating with her husband. The neighbor blew it all up but that didn't stop my wife. I immediately, like you, told her I could forgive her and we can work it out. Worst thing ever to tell someone who just betrayed you like that. They lose all respect for you. I played the pursue, pick me, crying, begging, miserable game for almost 3 years. I was a very pathetic beta male which is shameful because I was a U.S. Marine. Looking back now I'm disgusted at how I handled it. She would say the same kind of incredibly hurtful stuff your wife is saying. Basically cheating right in front of my face.
At about the 3 year mark I had had enough. It was killing me. I 180'd her HARD and FIRM. NO relenting. I started working out and doing all kinds of things I wanted to do for ME. I bought a motorcycle. I bought a bicycle. I got really active and basically ghosted her in our own house. NO more crying, NO more begging, NO pick me dance. I literally no longer gave a hoot what she did. She was a cheater. I was a strong confident successful loyal man. Why would I concern myself with the comings and goings of a cheater? I was always pleasant around the house but never engaged with her. She would engage with me and I'd talk to her as if I couldn't care less about what she had to say. I kept working out, got in the best shape of my life, got promoted at work, had a great life going without her input in any way. She actually started breaking down and crying all the time but still kept going online talking to her douche bag dudes. I decided I needed to move on and had her served with divorce papers. This was when it all changed. It had all mostly changed once I started getting myself together and doing maximum GAL and 180.
People want what they can't have. If you're a guarantee then she'll continue to treat you very cruel. If you start living a great life and don't need or want her anymore then she'll pursue you. Silly games I know, but that's life. One long series of silly people games.
Hi Tx
3-years amazing persistence especially sharing the same house!
I really do suffer from the patience thing and am a Mr Fix-it type person, this episode in my life has highlighted that and maybe I did this a lot when we were together In fact I did most things just to please her (typical Mr Nice Guy) and keep the peace. I’m sorry to piggyback Joes thread but I have a few questions…
1. Do you have kids together?
2. Looking at the timeline here it would suggest almost a 4-year period between discovery and reconciliation, if you had not filed do you think she would still be reluctant to work on the MR?
3. Tx did you notice peaks in her/their focus on the A and then falls?
4. Was she more willing to work at the A sometimes and then taper the focus off it or was it just solely focused on her AP/LO?
5. Did you notice a dilution in their interactions as time went by?
6. Do you feel if you weren’t “pleasant around the house” and stonewalled her this would have escalated the RC or do you feel being approachable for her but with your boundaries this method aided you?
I’m sorry for so many questions and appreciate if you don’t want to share too much of your experience but any insight for those that are going through this process is of more help than I can mention.
Apologies Joe again for crashing your thread.
Mark.
This past Monday I got into her phone and found out she did in fact actually see him. On her FB messenger they were telling each other they love each other. After I found out, I was heated I told her to get her things and get out. After about 15 mins, I calmed down and told her I wasn't mad and we talked about it
If only you had stuck to the first 15 minutes, you would have had a better shot at getting her back. Your W is wayward, and there is no reasoning with her.
We had a bunch of talks, which was me approaching her about the relationship
Yes, the more you step toward her, the more you push her away. Step back. Waaaaaay back.
She has been cooking and cleaning the house
Is that unusual? How does she normally spend her day?
She also asking for my help now. Which she wasn't doing for a while.
Help with what? For you to help out at home?
She tells me I had a chance to close off old relationships. She using my old relationships as reference points.
Is she comparing the fact you had a chance for closure on previous R's, where she didn't get closure from OM? Were you ever in a inappropriate R since being M to your W?
I returned home she was sitting on the couch on the computer, like she was waiting, which she never does. She stayed up real late after that. I dont knownhow to interpret that whole situation.
What do you all think?
She's still contacting OM.
I see Txhubby has joined in, and has said practically the same as I have about the first 15 min. you learned she was in an inappropriate contact with OM.
I hope you will learn from him, and don't go the "in-house" separation.
Here's the thing, Joe. You definitely had areas you needed to improve. I can see how a W could hold resentment and keep unresolved issues for a long time. Although you probably played a big part in the problems in the M and with the kids..........when she decided to involve a third person in this MR, it took on a whole different way in how you should approach things, IMHO.
Sandi2
She is using the fact about and old girlfriend I had and I happen to see her and realized I was over as justification for her and her old boyfriend.
This guy cheated on her in high school and has been divorced twice. I'm not saying people don't change but seems to me that she is somewhat in fantasy world.
I read a poem she wrote the other day and in that poem, (she was hiding it) a section in there said. "She's confused. Loves is confusing, I'm love one and the other is always on my mind.". In the poem she asks is she comfusing her oneself.
She asks for help for all kind if things now. Help around the house, help with her going to college, help with the boys. She wasn't asking for a while. Now she is.
I have started detaching, distancing and doing 180s.
She seemed to be angry this morning for what reason I don't know. And I didn't care why. I have stopped following her around and doing the things she said I didn't do.
TXHubby
You have a blueprint and I'm going to use it. Please keep the advice coming.
Joejoe1
Joejoe1,
Good. Follow TxHubby blueprint. And don't care, W needs to see that she is seriously losing you. And its not somewhat in a fantasy world. She is completely in a fantasy work much like own W. Trying to live a fantasy, which causes them to lose what's in their reality. You need to more towards taking away that reality from her. So she can see what the fantasy is costing her.
Tread,
I have another question. Why havent my wife asked for a divorce yet?
Joejoe1
Joejoe1,
Because she is cake eating. Your the provider, plus if she leaves that's a lot of church people that she has to tell. Which means she'll blame you if not already for her decisions. The good thing about your sitch is that her religious convictions are weighing on her mind. My W could give a damn less about God right now. Your religion is what's keeping her from making divorce demands right now. Your W clearly has doubts about her current life. Keep with the detaching.
Trust me, I am going through hell right now with mine. GAL and 180 like crazy. But I should have detached as well. The tough part was always being stuck in an in house separation. Now that she is gone I am quickly to a point where I am detaching. And my W has become even more wayward. I honestly wish I would heard TxHubby story a lot sooner. It would have helped my own sitch.
Tread,
My 180s are caring more. I have to walk a thin line. Because I have to care and help with the boys and around the house more. I have to also give space and detach. I have been doing much better with boys, validating and cleaning. She is cake eating, I'm GAL and have plans to go bungee jumping, skydiving and ziplinning. I have been doing landscaping around the house. The other day she told me thanks for all the help (she hasn't done that before).
But for some reason she is getting madder. I don't know if that is a good or bad thing. Seems to me she wants to be upset. I'm moving forward😁😁😁.
Her dad was a pastor and her mom an evangelist. I think she is being convicted in her heart. She's running from the truth.
Joejoe1,
Sounds exactly like my sitch. My 180 was caring more, which makes it hard for us. Because according to the rules, but yet are 180s are to show more affection. And like you my W would notice the change start to loosen up. Then suddenly would be mad at me or start arguments. Likely she would do something disrespectful involving OM to piss me off. That typically would happen when she would feel like she was portraying OM in some weird way. Who is certainly not feeling that way with his own W. His family is still together and just fine. My W is the clearly the village idiot.
Tread
Wow, we are flocking together. I'm learning a lot on here. Putting these techniques in practice and knowing when to do what is the hardest part.
I'm trying my hardest not to be mean. I do want to quit some days but I stay prayed up.
I lose hope every now and again.
But there's hope. Shes still at the house. At least.
TXHubby,
I have a question when you got fed up, did you ever consider your wife feelings. What I mean, when she seemed upset how did you react to that?
So today, yeah today. Where do I start.
So before I went to church wife and I got into a huge argument. I'm not gone lie, I was in a fed up mood. I asked her what the he'll are we doing. I told her I'm keeping the house.
Backstory on the house: So when she hit me with the she fed up in June, she told me that she wanted me to pay the Mortgage, pay the car note, move out and find a apartment and pay all the amenities at this apartment and also provide her child support. I went along with that until this morning. I told her only a fool would do that.
So this morning, I told her she cheated, I'm not moving out. (She tried to justify herself). I'm keeping this house. My son ran down and was upset at the commotion, so I left the conversation and went to church. I actually joined the church today. Church was awesome.
The message at church was sometimes GOD has to burn down somethings in your life to give you your true blessing. The pastor preached on the story of JOB.
So after I got back home after Church, we went on a drive to Home Depot together and got down to the meat. She hits me with "she's confuse and this is hard". She owe it to herself to see if the OM is meant to be. But its hard because I'm a provider and he's a risk. WTF.
She also said she don't want to move out until she gets on her feet. (No time frame for that). She keeps saying she dont know. Shes confuse. She confusing everyone else with her confusion.
Any suggestions?
TXHubby,
I have a question when you got fed up, did you ever consider your wife feelings. What I mean, when she seemed upset how did you react to that?
It was hard for her to put on those shows of breaking down and sobbing because I stayed around the house very little. I was almost always doing GAL. For a long time she didn't give a crap about my feelings and all our years together. She treated me cruelly and flaunted her adultery in my face. I fully detached. I didn't fake it. I did it. I had to. Not detaching was killing me. I woke up one day and realized that no other person was worth dying for like this. Especially her at this point in our lives. She was one of the last people on earth that was worth dying for. At least to me.
I had my own plan going forward great, I was back in shape (lost 40 lbs and toned up great), I was riding my new motorcycle or off bicycling with friends, hanging out with groups of friends at clubs that had live music (I LOVE live music), working out, going for walks, having coffee or dinner with a friend (male or female), etc.
This is when it turned and all the sudden she'd ask me if I wanted to talk. I'd give her less than a minute then said I needed to go. She'd ask if we could talk later and I'd say sure and then be gone or busy. She started breaking down more when I was home. I'd either ignore it or give her the standard "I'm sorry you're upset" or something like that. I'd then end the engagement as quick as I could and move on. Her life was turning to crap. Why? Because she was a cheater associating with douche bag men. Nobody that's a cheater is going to have a great life. It's a seedy life full of deceit, lies, judgments by friends/family, etc. If I was cornered by these pathetic displays I'd validate her despair but never ever comforted her. She had made her bed. My days of being her rock were gone. She didn't want me anymore. Didn't get to sow her oats because we married so young. So be it. She lost me. That is the absolute secret to them pursuing you.
So today, yeah today. Where do I start.
So before I went to church wife and I got into a huge argument. I'm not gone lie, I was in a fed up mood. I asked her what the he'll are we doing. I told her I'm keeping the house.
Backstory on the house: So when she hit me with the she fed up in June, she told me that she wanted me to pay the Mortgage, pay the car note, move out and find a apartment and pay all the amenities at this apartment and also provide her child support. I went along with that until this morning. I told her only a fool would do that.
So this morning, I told her she cheated, I'm not moving out. (She tried to justify herself). I'm keeping this house. My son ran down and was upset at the commotion, so I left the conversation and went to church. I actually joined the church today. Church was awesome.
The message at church was sometimes GOD has to burn down somethings in your life to give you your true blessing. The pastor preached on the story of JOB.
So after I got back home after Church, we went on a drive to Home Depot together and got down to the meat. She hits me with "she's confuse and this is hard". She owe it to herself to see if the OM is meant to be. But its hard because I'm a provider and he's a risk. WTF.
She also said she don't want to move out until she gets on her feet. (No time frame for that). She keeps saying she dont know. Shes confuse. She confusing everyone else with her confusion.
Any suggestions?
This is great. You're standing up for yourself. That's already making her "confused". Keep it up and soon enough she'll be begging you. OM is a douche bag. He won't hold up. Do GAL and really rock it. Seriously, become the best version of yourself you've ever been. Challenge yourself. Plan your future. Disregard her future. If you plan and execute yours she'll want to be part of it.
TxHubby,
Dam, I was a soul less person towards women before I met my wife she help bring it back. Now I have to balance being heartless while still caring. She has never seen me in that capacity, but I what has to happen. I'm starting slow.
Today I did landscaping, cleaned the house, cut the grass, and ironed my boys school clothes. I took my middle son swimming and soon as I finished I went out with a friend.
I never wanted to be like this but, it's becoming hard not to when a person that cheated on you, is treating you like sh!t.
Thanks for the info. You hit the tracks hard after you got fed up. Lets see if I can follow in your footsteps.
TxHubby,
Man you are great. I can't wait to see your advice. Thanks for helping me out. I love "the other guy is a douche bag" line. Makes me smile every time.
TXHubby
You have a blueprint and I'm going to use it. Please keep the advice coming.
Okay, so are you saying this ^^^^^^ is the way you have decided to go, and TxHubby will be your mentor? Or.....are you planning to use a dab of this and a bit of that in addition to what he gives you.......better known here as cherry picking. Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with TxHubby, but if he's the one you will be listening to.......maybe the rest of us need to know.
Sandi2,
I would like all the advice I can get. I would like you all to take a look at my situation and give me your opinions. I have to do what works. So I have to take action on certain things then evaluate. I will take all the advice I can get. Cherry pick is cool with me.
TXHubby
You have a blueprint and I'm going to use it. Please keep the advice coming.
Okay, so are you saying this ^^^^^^ is the way you have decided to go, and TxHubby will be your mentor? Or.....are you planning to use a dab of this and a bit of that in addition to what he gives you.......better known here as cherry picking. Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with TxHubby, but if he's the one you will be listening to.......maybe the rest of us need to know.
Definitely don't disregard others. Sandi gives a great perspective and very good advice. Everybody's plan needs to be tweaked based on these guidelines to fit their particular situation. All I'm saying is GAL, 180, and detach. It works.
TxHubby,
Dam, I was a soul less person towards women before I met my wife she help bring it back. Now I have to balance being heartless while still caring. She has never seen me in that capacity, but I what has to happen. I'm starting slow.
Today I did landscaping, cleaned the house, cut the grass, and ironed my boys school clothes. I took my middle son swimming and soon as I finished I went out with a friend.
I never wanted to be like this but, it's becoming hard not to when a person that cheated on you, is treating you like sh!t.
Thanks for the info. You hit the tracks hard after you got fed up. Lets see if I can follow in your footsteps.
It's pretty mind blowing when a spouse cheats on you and then isn't even remorseful about it. Actually blames you for it and doesn't stop. I recognized what kind of beaten-down man I had become. The kind of man that gets approval from modern society for being so weak, effeminate, etc. but also, as I learned the hard way, the kind of man that gets cheated on. That won't ever happen again, I promise you. Not that it couldn't, but that I'd never tolerate it again even for 1 second. Life is too short and I have too much to offer a good partner to tolerate a bad partner. So do you.
TxHubby,
It's funny, because I'm just really starting to understand how to 180. I thought it was more of doing the things she say I didn't do. But it's do the opposite of all the things you use to do.
I'm starting to detach now. I'm waiting to see how she reacts. I haven't gotten much of a reaction yet, but I just started. I don't know how it will take for me to see one, but I have my eyes open. The only thing I'm scared of, is being pulled in and temp tested and I give in. I'm confused on, if it comes to a point and she wants to have sex and I do to, do I? What are your thoughts on that situation.
I'm not going to disregard anyone's advice. I'm hear to learn and get tech's to apply to my own situation. I understand that each situation is unique.
Last night, I went out with a friend for burgers and beers, I had a nice time. All I told her was I was going out, I didn't tell her where I was going and with who.
She is still being cold towards me, but I'm still doing 180s, by cleaning the house and help to get the kids ready for school. I have been putting a coffee cup on the Kurig once I finish making my coffee. She dosen't seem to take notice to it, but I won't stop. It's a 180 for me.
You're doing fine. Be the best man you can possibly be but detach from her. Do your GAL, be a great father, plan a great future. If you're out of shape, get back in shape pronto. If your wardrobe is dated or just bad, then improve it. Be the man that any woman would love to be with. Confident, loyal, hard working, responsible, exciting, adventurous, etc.
Once I woke up and decided limbo sucked and I was going to make changes I actually did a really hard self-appraisal and listed out things I needed to change about myself. That then became my action plan. I got my career back on track and got promoted. Bought a motorcycle, bought a bicycle. Started going back to live music events like I used to do. Got in shape, updated my look/wardrobe. Tried to become the best version of me that I could be.
Stopped engaging her. Did a very hard/firm 180. Really detached. Was never rude, angry, bitter, etc. Those are very unattractive qualities. I only spoke to her when I had to and then it was always from a place of self-confidence, wisdom, and detachment.
Follow the 37 rules or as many as apply to your sitch. Really get serious about becoming the best version of yourself you can be and spend as little time around cheaters as you can. Your life will be full of positive things. There is nothing positive about a cheater's life. Their lives are based on lies, deceit, secrets, betrayal, etc. These are not things you want around your or occupying your head space.
If you do these things then you will set yourself up for a no-lose scenario. Either your WW will snap out of it and beg for a second chance or she won't but you'll be stronger, smarter, and ready to move forward with your great future. By the time my WW broke down, got rid of her foolish pride, and begged me for another chance, I had pretty much moved on in my heart. She just looked pathetic and unattractive at that point. I had really turned my life around. Why should I compromise my ethics to be with a cheater? I ended up staying and we still do marriage counseling but the worm has definitely turned. I'm confident and on top my game now. I'm the master of my own future.
I still love, honor, and cherish my wife every day but I also demand that I too be loved, honored, and cherished. Any betrayal of any kind whatsoever and I'm gone for good and know that I'll be just fine. It's that moment when they see that you're really going to be just fine without them is when they realize they've lost you and want you back. At least that's what happened to me and what I've see work for so many others. That works more than any other plan.
TxHubby,
I have lost 34 pounds since the start of these events. I haven't toned up yet, but I'm about to start. I'm going to clean out my closet today and get some new clothes. I do have to work on the R and M talk. I have made a conscious to not talk about it. I just read Sandi rules, and she said no sex or affection at all. Do you feel the same? I think she is going to try and test me with it. Time to put in work.
Joe,
If your wife is in a PA why would you want to have sex with her? Not to mention it may not be safe.
LH19,
Great point, I do get horny. But I was thinking about fulfilling my needs, I can see now that, that won't help my sit. So I will have to push her off and keep focus during those time frames. Also it will be a great 180, because I have never turned her down before.
TxHubby,
I have lost 34 pounds since the start of these events. I haven't toned up yet, but I'm about to start. I'm going to clean out my closet today and get some new clothes. I do have to work on the R and M talk. I have made a conscious to not talk about it. I just read Sandi rules, and she said no sex or affection at all. Do you feel the same? I think she is going to try and test me with it. Time to put in work.
I didn't touch my WW for quite a while. She was a cheater. For all I know she had some nasty STD. No thanks. Don't want any part of that. I couldn't believe that I had actually begged this woman to stay in our marriage. I still kick myself over those days. I was really pathetic. Why would you want to have sex with someone that is sleeping around?
TxHubby,
You are right. I just get weak when the heat is on. I have to control myself. It will be a big 180 for me to turn her down. I wonder how she will feel after that. I know I shouldn't worry about that, just wondering.
Hi Tx
3-years amazing persistence especially sharing the same house!
I really do suffer from the patience thing and am a Mr Fix-it type person, this episode in my life has highlighted that and maybe I did this a lot when we were together In fact I did most things just to please her (typical Mr Nice Guy) and keep the peace. I’m sorry to piggyback Joes thread but I have a few questions…
1. Do you have kids together?
2. Looking at the timeline here it would suggest almost a 4-year period between discovery and reconciliation, if you had not filed do you think she would still be reluctant to work on the MR?
3. Tx did you notice peaks in her/their focus on the A and then falls?
4. Was she more willing to work at the A sometimes and then taper the focus off it or was it just solely focused on her AP/LO?
5. Did you notice a dilution in their interactions as time went by?
6. Do you feel if you weren’t “pleasant around the house” and stonewalled her this would have escalated the RC or do you feel being approachable for her but with your boundaries this method aided you?
I’m sorry for so many questions and appreciate if you don’t want to share too much of your experience but any insight for those that are going through this process is of more help than I can mention.
Apologies Joe again for crashing your thread.
Mark.
I'm so sorry, I missed this post. Let me answer.
1. Yes. 2 adult sons and a 15yo daughter.
2. I don't know. All I know is that I had enough of limbo and was done with the whole thing.
3. There were all kinds of peaks and generally erratic behavior. She was in a full on MLC and didn't even resemble the smart, strong, sensible, caring woman I had loved for 26 years.
4. She was fully in affair fog. Telling people she got married too young, had kids too young, never got to live, blah blah blah. Was going to live for herself and do what she wanted, blah blah blah. Flaunted in right in my face as I broke down almost daily and was a blubbering mess.
5. She lost her main AP because his wife kicked him out and he had to flee to another state to live with his mommy. A 40-something year old man having to move in with mommy. What a prize he was. She then started carrying on with people on KIK and Snapchat. I think she met a couple others for casual sex. By then I stopped caring and starting living my life for myself. That meant ceasing doing anything whatsoever for her and I had always done A LOT.
6. What aided me was really detaching from her but also waking up and becoming the best version of me that I could be. My life became really exciting and still is. I do a lot of stuff now. Fun stuff. It didn't hurt my cause that her friends on FB asked my status and wanted to date me if we split up. Make yourself the most attractive version of you that you can be and you'll always have options. Once you have options then a cheating spouse doesn't look so good to you anymore.
No problem with the questions. These things are hard. I only come back her to try as hard as I can to help other people avoid the long life-crushing limbo period I endured. If anyone thinks that sitting by idly and doing nothing will cause a WAS or WS to magically snap out of their fog and realize what a prize their spouse is and want to stay in the marriage, they're very wrong. Maybe that happens at most 1% of the time. You have to be very pro-active and still there are no guarantees but you raise your chances considerably. It's literally your best chance.
It's pretty mind blowing when a spouse cheats on you and then isn't even remorseful about it. Actually blames you for it and doesn't stop. I recognized what kind of beaten-down man I had become. The kind of man that gets approval from modern society for being so weak, effeminate, etc. but also, as I learned the hard way, the kind of man that gets cheated on. That won't ever happen again, I promise you. Not that it couldn't, but that I'd never tolerate it again even for 1 second. Life is too short and I have too much to offer a good partner to tolerate a bad partner. So do you.
See? This is an example of what the new guys need to hear from other men. It is much more receivable, IMHO, when one man says it to another man.........rather than a woman trying to tell him. Besides, men get it said with fewer words.
TX/Sandi.......so if your confidence is up how long do you hang out in Limbo period? It seems like in every situation I have read the LBS either filed themselves or if not already separated the LBS threatened to kick them out and that did the trick? What are your thoughts and recommendations because I believe in both of your sitch's that is what each of you had to do or Sandi I think you mentioned that is what your husband told you. Could you both give your opinions? thanks!
TX/Sandi.......so if your confidence is up how long do you hang out in Limbo period? It seems like in every situation I have read the LBS either filed themselves or if not already separated the LBS threatened to kick them out and that did the trick? What are your thoughts and recommendations because I believe in both of your sitch's that is what each of you had to do or Sandi I think you mentioned that is what your husband told you. Could you both give your opinions? thanks!
Personally I shy away from the "how long to stay in limbo" question. I believe the answer is different for different people. I've thought about it a lot and I don't think there is a magic number of weeks or months, or ever years. I'll answer like this. When the thought of ending the marriage is more appealing to you then remaining in limbo then you've hit your limbo limit.
Joseph9,
I'll offer my opinion on your question. Only YOU can decide how long you are willing to be in limbo. When I discovered my W's A, I took a week to decide what I wanted before confronting her. When I did confront her, it was calm and I told her she needed to gather her things and leave the house immediately. She did. I never told her she needed to stop the A. But I did tell her that so long as she chose to engage in an A, that she could not stay in our house. I actually didn't want her to leave. I wanted to see remorse and then we would start working on the mess that had been created. But that's not what I got.
In the end, it was me filing for D that caused the A to end. OM knew I filed and probably felt I would be telling his W in short order. So he manned up and confessed. That is what finally ended the A. But if you go that route, you need to truly be ready to end it all. It can't be a scare tactic.
Thanks LIM I thoroughly understand......I read an old post on how the little bo-peep method rarely ever works which fell in-line with what TX said. My W moved out and I think there is another man but I have no proof, I stopped snooping once she moved out. It is now an assumption. What was your time frame before you pulled the trigger?
TxHubby,
You are right. I just get weak when the heat is on. I have to control myself. It will be a big 180 for me to turn her down. I wonder how she will feel after that. I know I shouldn't worry about that, just wondering.
Dont even let yourself get in that situation. I would NOT be willing to have sex with my W while she was in an active A. Doing that may make you feel better for a moment but to her, it means she still has you on the hook. She needs to truly feel that she has lost you. Dont go down this path.
LiM,
Great advice. Now I have to be prepared for the moment. I have to stay strong. JOE STAY STRONG!!!!!! I have to do this, for the future of my sanity and hopefully my marriage and family. Here's to the future, DBing and 180s.
Thanks LIM I thoroughly understand......I read an old post on how the little bo-peep method rarely ever works which fell in-line with what TX said. My W moved out and I think there is another man but I have no proof, I stopped snooping once she moved out. It is now an assumption. What was your time frame before you pulled the trigger?
After my W moved out, I thought we were working on our M. After the first month, I knew something wasn't right but didn't know what it was. After 2 1/2 months, I found out that the A was still going on. It was at that point that I filed for D and served her at the end of the 3rd month. 3 days later, OM confessed to his W and the A ended. If I had not found out that the A was still going on, I have no clue where I'd be today.
Thanks LiM.
Well, I am coming up on month #3. I have no proof of an affair but no longer snooping. Not sure if it matters or not since she has moved out but we are not working on our R. I know I will be fine, my confidence is great just trying to feel my through it. Since I don't know 100% of an A it makes it hard to determine how nice or not nice I should be and/or the level of patience to have.
I'll answer like this. When the thought of ending the marriage is more appealing to you then remaining in limbo then you've hit your limbo limit.
Thanks TX.....I think a lot of it has to do with the self-confidence of the LBS. Also, do you agree that at some point in time the LBS has to take some sort of action whether it be separation or D before the WW wakes up? I know it's a dice roll but it appears that just going along for the ride no matter what you do is a recipe for success. Especially if there are no signs from the WW wife that they are still engaged in making the R work.
Thanks TX.....I think a lot of it has to do with the self-confidence of the LBS. Also, do you agree that at some point in time the LBS has to take some sort of action whether it be separation or D before the WW wakes up? I know it's a dice roll but it appears that just going along for the ride no matter what you do is a recipe for success. Especially if there are no signs from the WW wife that they are still engaged in making the R work.
You're right about self-confidence. While I was playing the role of poor cheated on husband sitting around lamenting my situation and just hoping my cheating wife would magically snap out of it, apologize, and go back to her old loving self...my self-confidence was at a lifetime low. No way I would have filed back then. I was content to grovel for any scrap of kindness she'd throw my way. I'm so disgusted when I think back on that version of me. Hell, I would have cheated on me too (no, not really).
That's one reason I'll always harp on you to become the best version of you that you can possibly be. Realize your potential and go for it. It's not easy and you can stumble along the way but ALWAYS move forward. Refuse to pity yourself. Go skydiving, hiking, scuba diving, whatever. Do some really great stuff with your life. Don't allow yourself to ever sit around moping and lamenting your WW.
I definitely agree you have to take some kind of action to improve your situation. That's what the DB program is. You taking action to get healthy, strong, and stand up for yourself.
Have you ever broken up with a former girlfriend? I think most of us have. If that girl got really clingy, cried all the time, kept telling you you're making a mistake and that you two were great, tried to remind you of the good times, etc. was she attractive to you? No, in fact she was even less attractive than before. She looked pathetic. Well? That's what you look like to a WAS/WS when keep trying to get them to wise up and come back to you.
Now, on the flip side, did you ever break up with someone and then got over you way too quick, moved on, was very happy, looked great, and had a great life going without you? Well, that's the one you regretted letting go of. that's the one you wanted back.
Same thing here. Don't allow yourself to do any of the unattractive behaviors and instead focus on ALWAYS doing the attractive behaviors. Be strong, confident, and always better than cheaters.
Thanks TX.....I have not been clingy in some time (no calls, texts,etc about R or D), I look good, have a good job, great with the kiddos etc. Just feeling like all of that is not going to wake her up so the thought of filing myself is crossing my mind (and I understand it is not a trick to get them back). Just trying to balance that out with being patient about the DB process and letting your consistent actions show over time. Trying to strike that balance.
Seems really early in the process after 14 years of M, Joseph. What do you think filing would give you that you don't have now?
The D process adds more conflict, if anything, and makes detachment/low contact more difficult in some ways from my experience
T.....getting out of limbo. Knowing that if I just sit around and wait for her to change her mind it's probably not going to happen. By sitting around I mean thinking that she will snap out of it just based on GAL, 180, etc. It seems most of the people who have had success was because they took some sort of decisive action whether it be separation or D, maybe it was exposing the A but they took some sort of action. I read in a really old post that rarely does the little-bo-peep method work.
Now in some sitch's you can truly see the WW/WH is not 100% out the door but for others the situation is not as positive. So for me if GAL, 180, etc. doesn't work then what actions are left. The only thing I have left is to file for D and see if that wakes her up (obviously not as a trick but only when I am willing to accept the consequences).
So,
Question?
I just got off the phone with a marriage coach. He isn't a DB coach. I paid for another coach before I came here. He told me to take control of the situation and tell my wife she needs to move out. I don't know how to feel about that yet. I still haven't given DB, 180s and detaching a chance. Should I jump straight to telling her I'm moving on with my life you need to move out and let me find my happiness or be a little more patient with DB? Suggestions.
If she is having a PA then absolutely you should tell her to move out!
LH19,
She isn't having a PA right now. It's a EA at the moment. She did have a PA with him, but hasn't since I found out. But should I DB first or go straight to the you need to go tactic?
If they are still in contact then yes IMO you should ask her to leave. Just out of curiosity how are you so sure a PA is not still going on?
But should I DB first or go straight to the you need to go tactic?
joe,
DB and kicking your wife out are not mutually exclusive; you can do both of them. (I'm a proponent of gently ushering the offending spouse out the door.)
I have not really DB yet. I wanted to give it a full try before I say you have to go. I wanted to GAL really hard, do 180s and detach while she was in our home. Do you all think that could work or will that approach be fruitless. I saw TxHubby did all that first and then dropped the D papers. So his wife got to see his transformation before he took the big step. I would like her see a full transformation and confuse the hell out of her and then if things didn't change, I drop the D papers or we need space apart talk. I also think I should be really comfortable before jumping to that step but I would like advice on what you all think.
joe,
In the most simplistic terms, DB is about showing your spouse that you'll be just fine without them (GAL, focus on yourself etc.). Most of us are so riddled with fear of letting go that we cling to the spouse until we get so disgusted with the situation that we finally let go. In my opinion, the faster you can get to letting go, the higher the probability of reconciliation. Again, that's my opinion, it's not necessarily fact.
I'll share a little about my sitch that may be helpful. Right now, W is full steam ahead on the D. But about 2 months ago, before she filed, she said something along the lines of "If you asked me to make a decision now, I would decide to leave". I really regret not telling her to move out then and there.
The thing is, you'll never reach a "full try". You'll always think there's one more thing you can try or do differently.
Doodler,
Does letting go mean telling her to get out or doing the DBing techniques? Do I do the 180s, Detaching and GAL the hell out of myself first. I think the letting go as a concept is becoming easier. But I want to know what my next steps should be?
Holding,
What do you mean about a full try? Or I will never meet a full try?
Joe,
I will give you my opinion. I don't think you have what it takes to pull of a Txhubby. He is one of the very few who pulled this off in an in house separation. Everyone loves to grasp to his story but very few have the alpha mindset to pull if off.
Now in my opinion, your wife will cake-eat off you as long as she can. You have four very young children and if anything will wake her up it will be the dose of reality she gets taking care of 4 kids on her own.
What are your boundaries? Are you willing to live in an open marriage?
I wanted to give it a full try before I say you have to go.
This is what I'm referring to. How do you decide you've tried everything and it's time to ask her to leave? My point is, you'll probably always have doubts about whether you've tried everything.
Joe,
All the stuff you mention (GAL, 180's, etc) is for YOU. Its for YOUR benefit, not for hers. You do those things and make those changes because YOU want to be a better person for YOU. If you are doing them to win your W back, they will not work and she will see right through it.
While she is actively in an A (dont fool yourself by saying its not a PA), she will see NONE of what you are doing. She will appreciate NONE of it.
The A has to die and she must hit rock bottom before she can even begin to appreciate the NEW you.
Some things you CAN do to possibly start jolting her out of the fog include dropping the rope and to begin moving on with your life without her. Its seeing that she is losing you, a better you, that may begin to break her free from her fantasy world. Standing up for yourself with confidence and refusing to be a doormat is something that will shake her to her core. Seeing you be strong, confident and firm is attractive. That is what will make her head spin and make her wonder WTH she is doing.
In my case, I had only been DB'ing for 24-72 hours before I learned of my W's A. But I was unwilling to tolerate that behavior in my house so I told her she had to go.
Hi, just a quick reply from someone who successfully Busted in the past...I always understood that you want to keep them in the house as long as you can. That is what I did. It's easier to detach/do 180s, etc. if you are still in the house together.
Doodler,
Does letting go mean telling her to get out or doing the DBing techniques? Do I do the 180s, Detaching and GAL the hell out of myself first. I think the letting go as a concept is becoming easier. But I want to know what my next steps should be?
Letting Go means emotionally divorcing her. You don't have to actually divorce her right now but the sooner your realize that you are no longer married and come to terms with that, the sooner you will feel better about yourself and the sooner she may realize what she has lost.
The fact is that your W is gone. You no longer have a M unless of course you are fine with sharing your W with OM. I presume that you are not otherwise you would not be here.
As much as it [censored] to come to grips with this, it is what you have to do. Begin picking up the pieces and moving on with your life. Do not settle for any life. Build a life for yourself that is better than before. DB, GAL and 180 the hell out of your life but do it for YOU.
As for if/when to kick your W out, that's up to you. At a bare minimum, I would kick her out of the MBR. That room is for people committed to the R. She should not be allowed in that room so long as the A is active.
LiM and holding,
I'm very alpha male, can I pull off what TxHubby did I don't know. I have been the Army for over 16 years. I have been deployed 3 times. I can ignore the heck out of her. I can smile and become happy in front of her face.
LiM,
I agree I had a chance to get things straight once I told her to leave the first time, but I didn't have the info. I wish I did, I wouldn't have not problem letting her walk. Me being amateur at DB, I didn't know what to do in that moment.
My question is, should I even try doing the DBs. I have ziplinning set up for this weekend. Skydiving, two weeks after that, and bungee jumping two weeks after Skydiving. I'm cleaning out my closet tonight of my old clothes and getting a whole new wardrobe. I'm doing landscaping around the house.
Holding,
I know I haven't tried everything. That's why I'm asking questions. I want you'll opinion on a logical next step. I have a very strategic mind. If you all think it's better to go hard at DBing I will try that first before I put her and my children out. I love having my boys around. Since I'm in the Army for the first time in my life, I have gotten a chance to be around my sons while they are a baby. I have one year old, and I get to hold him everyday.
LiM,
I understanding the DB strategies are for me. Not for her. I hope my comments didn't come off that way, they probably did. I'm ok with the fact that we might not be together.
I have not really DB yet. I wanted to give it a full try before I say you have to go. I wanted to GAL really hard, do 180s and detach while she was in our home. Do you all think that could work or will that approach be fruitless. I saw TxHubby did all that first and then dropped the D papers. So his wife got to see his transformation before he took the big step. I would like her see a full transformation and confuse the hell out of her and then if things didn't change, I drop the D papers or we need space apart talk. I also think I should be really comfortable before jumping to that step but I would like advice on what you all think.
My cheating wife was in no hurry to leave and I was going to show her with actions that my life was going to be awesome with or without her. You can't fake it or half ass it. It's going to be the biggest challenge of your life but what it will do is guarantee you a no-lose scenario. She either comes around and is the wife you deserve or you move on with your great new life. When you really know in your heart 100% that you're going to succeed either way then you'll give off that vibe and more times than not, they'll respond.
Yes, DB!
Detach, 180, GAL, drop the rope. Do everything. You do this whether your W is in the house or not. If your W is in an active A, you should be doing the Last Resort Technique. There are MANY DB's that will go soft on their WS and try to nice them out of it. I'm of the opinion that doesn't work. I think with a WW, you have to be very firm. You draw a line in the sand and you make it clear "This line will NOT be crossed." Only you can decide what that line is and the consequences for crossing it.
Please note that being "firm" does NOT mean being cruel, hateful, vengeful or anything like that. It just means that you have enough respect for yourself that you will not allow yourself to be walked over.
If you haven't already, make sure you read ALL of Sandi's threads
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2653323&page=1
Holding,
I know I haven't tried everything. That's why I'm asking questions. I want you'll opinion on a logical next step. I have a very strategic mind. If you all think it's better to go hard at DBing I will try that first before I put her and my children out. I love having my boys around. Since I'm in the Army for the first time in my life, I have gotten a chance to be around my sons while they are a baby. I have one year old, and I get to hold him everyday.
My first thought is you tell her to move out. But you mention seeing your sons, so I am frankly concerned that your W might take them all with her and you wouldn't be able to see them. Is that the case?
Also, LiM is right that you should GAL regardless.
Holding,
She want takr my kids from me. She will allow me to see them.
TXHubby,
I understand. I know a 100% I will succeed either way.
My WW didn't leave so I basically ghosted her in the house. Gave her a front row seat to my great new life. I think that did more for me than anything else. I literally didn't concern myself with her comings and goings in the least. My only advice if you're going to do what I did, however, is that you really have to go all-in. No faking your great new life. No sitting around lamenting your situation. That feeds a cheater's ego and makes you look weak and pathetic. They won't love you or respect you, they'll pity you and think less of you. You know, like I did to her when I got my groove back.
Yesterday,
Yesterday I got home got a trash bag went in my closet and threw all my old clothes in it to make room for my new wardrobe and immediately changed and went outside to start landscaping. I finished the front yard, Yeaaaaaaay!
The W was painting downstairs, when I arrived. It looks nice.
I was outside for about 3 hours. I went back inside and help put my boys to bed.
After they went to bed, she did something that was unusual. She complained about the guy that's helping with the landscaping. I told her we were starting the backyard next and she said, Why? I was like huh. She said she don't like his personality. This guy is helping me do a $10,000 job for free, well all he wants is cases of Coors light for his help. I didn't no what to make of that comment. I just shrugged it off and went upstairs.
I'm on my 3rd of DBing. I'm being patient.
So after I got back home after Church, we went on a drive to Home Depot together and got down to the meat. She hits me with "she's confuse and this is hard". She owe it to herself to see if the OM is meant to be. But its hard because I'm a provider and he's a risk. WTF.
She also said she don't want to move out until she gets on her feet. (No time frame for that). She keeps saying she dont know. Shes confuse. She confusing everyone else with her confusion.
What would be your typical response, whenever she would make statements along these lines? (Not so much about OM....but extremely selfish). In the past, were you just expected to fall in line? And, forget what you want or how her preferences could affect the family?
I'm going to share something with you about WW's, and you need to use this as a measuring unit whenever you are confused by something she says/does. The WW sees all the planets revolving around her.......or at least, they
should. Everything....and I do mean
EVERYTHING is about her. Her brain is warped! She does not think rationally. Her H is no more than a tool to provide whatever she may need at the moment. She uses him.......and she uses anyone else available. In every situation she approaches, she looks to see how
she will benefit from it. Selfishness is her motivator. The sooner you get these cold, hard facts down.......the sooner you will stop having WTF moments. At least, perhaps they won't completely blindside you.
Here's the current problem. She is in charge. You handed the reigns over to her, and now you are waiting for direction from her. Which way will she pull on the reigns? That's what TxHubby experienced, until he got fed up and decided he was not a horse, and he took the reigns away from her. Now his message is, "I'm going this way......you can go with me.....I don't care.......but I am
still going this way". See, he is not trying to boss her around. She is free to make her own choices. He's letting her know his choice, and he no longer quietly falls into the path behind her, letting her yank on the reigns. He has taken back the reigns and is in charge of his life.
I bet you were stunned at the audacity of your W. You will see more of it. It's called entitlement. If you or your in-laws catered to your W, then she is going to behave like a spoiled brat. If she has carried your b@lls around in her purse for some time.......then you are going to be challenged, b/c once women get b@lls.......they don't want to surrender them. So, you want to know where to begin? My suggestion is to start with getting your b@lls back.
Here's another problem I have seen in newcomer H's. They want to know how they can do this, that, and another.........and still show the W he
cares. He wants to show how much he loves her. He doesn't want her thinking he wants a D. Well, hold on, b/c this may feel like ice water being thrown on you. Your current objective is not to show how loving you can be. It's not to prove what an excellent H and father you want to be. It's not the time to convince her you don't want a D. Okay.........you still with me? This is the time to find your b@lls and start using them. You are a man who has 4 sons. Your first responsibility is to protect and provide for them......I think everyone will agree. The next one is teaching these little guys how to be a man. Not a hen pecked, yes dear, scared to upset W wimp. (And don't get me wrong......I am not saying you are any of these. This is for whomever may read this post). And btw, don't misunderstand and think you are suppose fight it out with their mom in front of your children. You want your sons to be respectful toward women......and just as equally important, not to cow down to a woman. Make sense? It's okay to feel afraid........just don't show the WW that you fear
her.
Dam, I was a soul less person towards women before I met my wife she help bring it back. Now I have to balance being heartless while still caring. She has never seen me in that capacity, but I what has to happen. I'm starting slow.
What do you mean by "soulless toward women"?
I believe I know what you mean in the rest of the above quote. I don't really see it as a balancing act between heartless and caring. Although, I often tell posters to find balance when applying a new DB technique, etc......b/c
some tend to become a little unbalanced in their thinking and/or approach.
If you know your standard of values, spiritual beliefs, moral codes and integrity by which you live your life......and are raising your sons within that same realm..........then does that not basically give you direction? Having a solid foundation in our life is critical, b/c we will face trying times.......and we had better know
where we stand and
why. What will we tolerate? What will we NOT tolerate......and what will we do if it is pushed/forced upon us? That is what every individual has to decide.
Currently, your W is wayward. She wants to do things that go against the vows that were made when you were united in marriage. She will twist words around, but she is basically wanting to engage in adultery.......while keeping all her benefits from the M with you. But listen, she is not in love with this OM. If he dropped her today, she'd quickly find OM#2, b/c the other guy isn't the real problem. Her wayward mindset is the real issue, and as a long as she maintains the WW mentality, she will bounce from man to man, or act like Girls Gone Wild. She find whatever it takes to justify her actions. She operates out of her area of emotions. Therefore, her H had better be a man who operates from what he knows to be right and true. How does he decide what is the right thing to do? He refers to his integrity, his standards, values, etc. His emotions should not be the dictator his actions. Someone has to keep a sane mind.......and it's not the WW.
Is this situation completely hopeless? No, not if you won't waste time in deciding what you will do. I don't mean you should jump into something you don't understand, but take a self evaluation to determine the true relationship dynamics in the MR over the past years. Who was in charge? Whose word was final? Who would apologize first? Who catered more to the feelings of the other spouse, who did the most chores, who did the most in tending to the daily needs of the kids (making school lunches, cooking, ironing, homework, baths, activities, etc)? Which spouse would be considered domineering?
Decide how you can protect yourself. Think about what type of behavior inflicted on you will not be tolerated, and what to do if it's pushed on you. If you are not familiar with boundaries, be sure to read the link. And, you may want to research about waywardness, nice guy stuff, examples of setting personal boundaries, signs of disrespect displayed by the W, etc. Check to see where you stand legally. Don't tell your W about anything discusses on the board.
Oh btw, you don't have to write out answers for all these questions. It's just to give you an idea of how to get started with a plan.
The two of you have a M license that says you are legally bound together. However, she does not have a license to treat you like sh't.
Amazing post, Sandi!
JoeJoe, heed these words!
[quote]
Here's the current problem. She is in charge. You handed the reigns over to her, and now you are waiting for direction from her. Which way will she pull on the reigns? That's what TxHubby experienced, until he got fed up and decided he was not a horse, and he took the reigns away from her. Now his message is, "I'm going this way......you can go with me.....I don't care.......but I am still going this way". See, he is not trying to boss her around. She is free to make her own choices. He's letting her know his choice, and he no longer quietly falls into the path behind her, letting her yank on the reigns. He has taken back the reigns and is in charge of his life.
I bet you were stunned at the audacity of your W. You will see more of it. It's called entitlement. If you or your in-laws catered to your W, then she is going to behave like a spoiled brat. If she has carried your b@lls around in her purse for some time.......then you are going to be challenged, b/c once women get b@lls.......they don't want to surrender them. So, you want to know where to begin? My suggestion is to start with getting your b@lls back.
Sandi2,
I understand and acknowledge all. What am I to do? You wrote out what her problem is. What can I do to reestablish respect?
Do I tell her to move out?
Or Do I DB, GAL and 180 the hell out of this situation.
I haven't been contacting her. I don't initiate conversations, I don't ask questions.
Or those things only to help me get better or are they to help gain respect as well? Awaiting your advice.
Sandi2,
My wife did all the housework and took care of the boys. My 180s are cleaning up and helping to take care of the boys. I know taking care of the boys is a must. Do I continue to clean the house? I was very distant in the house and with my family, now I'm playing and doing things with my boys more and contributing around the house more.
I know taking care of the boys is a must. Do I continue to clean the house? I was very distant in the house and with my family, now I'm playing and doing things with my boys more and contributing around the house more.
Is that going to get your b@lls back Joe?
LH.....on a staff call with my boss and about fell out of my chair
LH19,
I don't know, that's why I'm asking. If I don't I won't be 180ing. Do I drop 180s? I'm stilling GALing and detaching. Let me know.
Is she doing this because you didn't clean the house?
C'mon Joe! I know this sounds hyper masculine, but you need to become Alpha male not to be trifled with.
Get your GAL on, detach, look/smell good, don't give a d@mn what she does.
Taking care of your children and spending more time with them is definitely good. That's a good 180.
Not all 180s are made the same. If you want to do the dishes, put on some Metallica and a bandana while doing it - look bada$$ if that 180 is important to you.
Selfishness is her motivator.
Had the following text exchange with my WW a week and a half ago:
WW: I just want to be happy
Me: Do you justify hurting me multiple times with “I just want to be happy” Because that’s what it seems like you’re saying
WW: I guess call me selfish if you want. I'm not thinking of hurting you… I just want to live a good life
WW: And I don't need to be labeled as someone who was awful
That exchange with my WW pretty much confirms that WW's are motivated by selfishness...Not that Sandi ever needs confirmation on her advice
JoeJoe1 - I don't swing by here often mostly only watching old friends on the forum here but Joseph's response caught my eye.
Keep in mind that as opposed to the "me" that I was a year and a half ago when I first got here I'm a lot more cynical than I was then. This sort of thing can do that to you.
Forgive me also for the fact that I've not read back on your situation as well so I might get this completely wrong.
You are looking at the wrong issue. Your W isn't going to suddenly "wake up" and realize that she now has a pool boy and a nanny and think you are wonderful and that she'll pick you over the other guy.
Just like when you are in an airplane and the oxygen masks drop down out of the ceiling, you need to save yourself first. So - let me ask you a question. Are you happy with the man you see in the mirror? Do you respect him? Do you admire him? Notice that I didn't ask what your W thought - I asked what you thought. If you're not happy with him, work on changes to make yourself happy with him. You may have to get through this on your own so you should at least know that you have good company.
A lot of the philosophy here even though it is couched in the "save your marriage" terms are actually "save yourself" messages. If you don't save yourself you'll be no darned good to anyone else.
It will probably be one of the hardest things that you've ever done, but you need to be that best person you can be for yourself and your children. Your W is on her own journey that may well spend a fair bit of time in Fairy Land Crazy Ville. You don't want to go there (my heavens I'm bolding a lot).
So - stop being the house servant - be an equal partner in the marriage knowing that if your W is off playing with the fairies that you'll have to pick up that part of the load too.
Just know that for most of the people who end up in this horrible / wonderful place:
- There are no easy answers
- There are no quick solutions
- There is only hard work
Are you ready to work on the things you can change?
Hey Joe, you're getting some great advice here. TXHubby's hardline approach isn't one that works for every sitch, but in reading yours I think it is very similar to his and his approach may be appropriate for you. Just a note though, he did not do it as a strategy to get his W back, he was well and truly done, and I think THAT is a huge reason why it worked for him.
I did want to comment on a few things you've said along these lines:
She is still being cold towards me, but I'm still doing 180s, by cleaning the house and help to get the kids ready for school. I have been putting a coffee cup on the Kurig once I finish making my coffee. She dosen't seem to take notice to it, but I won't stop. It's a 180 for me.
^^^THAT is very beta behavior and is not going to attract her back. I'm not saying it's bad to do those things, but those are not things I would consider significant 180's. Most of us were very alpha when we met our wives. Over the years we become good little hubbies and fathers and become much more beta and lost the alpha characteristics we once had that our W's were attracted to to begin with. We become less active, we gain weight, we quit hanging out with friends, etc. Our W's look at us and wonder when their sexy, attractive man suddenly became a couch potato. Anyway when we get BD'd our reaction is to think "oh my gosh, I should have helped her more! I need to do that now- wash dishes, do laundry, get the kids ready for bed." Those are all worthy things, but they're not doing anything for our attractiveness. Our W's aren't leaving us because they need a house maid. I think a lot of the other things you've mentioned are right on point as far as GAL though, so you're doing fine. I just wanted to clarify that so you know where to put your focus. Obviously we ARE fathers now so we can't just abandon all beta behavior, but the goal is to find a balance to where we get back those alpha traits while also keeping the beta stuff going.
Good luck!
Selfishness is her motivator.
Had the following text exchange with my WW a week and a half ago:
WW: I just want to be happy
Me: Do you justify hurting me multiple times with “I just want to be happy” Because that’s what it seems like you’re saying
WW: I guess call me selfish if you want. I'm not thinking of hurting you… I just want to live a good life
WW: And I don't need to be labeled as someone who was awful
That exchange with my WW pretty much confirms that WW's are motivated by selfishness...Not that Sandi ever needs confirmation on her advice
Many WAW's have spent most of their adult life putting their family first and putting themselves last. They clean, do the laundry, feed the whole family, go to parent/ teacher conferences, and these days they do all of that on top of holding down a full time job. Folding underwear and packing lunches doesn't exactly make a woman feel sexy, makes her feel like a mom! At some point, often around the time menopause kicks in, the kids are older and don't need as much attention and the WAW looks up and says "how in the world did I get here? What about ME? What do I want from life?" They are often acting out of desperation, life is slipping away and they feel like they need something more than they're getting. And many of them do indeed deserve something better after living like a glorified servant for so long. They really do try and get our attention on this but we shut down and think we're being nagged and we just want them to go back to their "job" as wife and mother and quit complaining. So they finally give up and plan their escape.
Anyway my point is your W is telling the truth. She really does just want to be happy. She really doesn't want to hurt you to get there, but unfortunately that's a byproduct of her search for happiness. We all respect and admire Sandi greatly, but SHE WAS YOUR WIFE. She too was a WAS. Full-blown, totally done, ready to leave WAS. I don't think anyone would ever dream of calling Sandi selfish, in fact she's quite the opposite. What she did in her M and what your W is doing (and mine and others) is selfish in the respect that they are doing it because they are putting themselves first. But that doesn't mean they are bad people, or mean, or spiteful. I'm not saying leaving the M is the right reaction, I am just trying to help you see things from her point of view a little bit. It's easy just to say a WAS is crazy and selfish, but their motivations run a lot deeper than that.
She owe it to herself to see if the OM is meant to be. But its hard because I'm a provider and he's a risk. WTF.
She also said she don't want to move out until she gets on her feet. (No time frame for that). She keeps saying she dont know. Shes confuse. She confusing everyone else with her confusion.
Joe,
This is the BS that you can't put up with or it will end very badly for you.
Translation: Joe please be my plan B while I try out things with OM and see if we are meant to be. Oh yeah also please cook and clean the house for me until I get on my feet and leave you for the OM.
You said you were an Alpha. Would an Alpha put up with a BS deal like that?
I would have said: Honey I love you and would like for you to stay and work on our M. I know I have made some mistakes in the past but I would really like to put those behind us. If you want to go and try to see if you and OM have a connection that is fine but I will not be waiting for you if it doesn't work out. BTW no you can't wait until you get on your feet.
Joe I have been here for almost three years you can't nice your way back ie. cook and clean your way out of your situation.
Lastly, you have the DB lingo down, 180s, GAL and detaching but I am not sure you quite understand them completely.
AnotherStander -
Please refer or check out my post in Newcomers
WW Part 2
AnotherStander,
Thank you so much. I understand it better now. My/Our wifes have been cleaning, cooking and getting the kids ready for years, so why would my few months make a difference to her. They probably see it as. I have been doing it for years. So it's only fair that you are doing it now. Cleaning is not me becoming Alpha. It's me trying to make up for what I've neglected to do in the past.
That's why I'm here. I get clarification and insight.
LH19,
You are right my approach hasn't been good when she says things like that. It's time I get on top of that and do what works and make the right decisions and statements in those moments.
AnotherStander,
Thank you so much. I understand it better now. My/Our wifes have been cleaning, cooking and getting the kids ready for years, so why would my few months make a difference to her. They probably see it as. I have been doing it for years. So it's only fair that you are doing it now.
Yes, exactly. And also they will think "if you are doing it now then why the hell couldn't you have done it all those years when I needed the help? It's too little too late." Sandi has posted a lot on how the WAW thinks, it's really hard for us to imagine the mindset but basically they are so fed up that they are quite literally disgusted that we are trying to save things. A lot of guys just don't understand it, they switch over to super-beta (cook, clean, care for the kids) and yet the WAW just seems to be even more angry about it. Well yeah, because she IS!
Cleaning is not me becoming Alpha. It's me trying to make up for what I've neglected to do in the past.
Yes, and like I said, that is NOT a bad thing! But it's not what's going to bring her back. And in fact if she is actively engaging in an A like it sounds like your W is, it may work against you. If you go all beta at a time like this it just makes OM look that much more attractive and alpha.