Hello DB'ers!
Well, my case is by no means "special" in the sense of being untypical, but is unsettling--at least to me, and a painful ordeal to our family. If fact reading postings, I can identify the same issues in some 30-40% of them, W almost exact words expressed by other WAS. Aren't we all pathetically alike for individual reasons?
In a few days will be our 11th Anniversary. We have two children in common (S10, D7); and two older children from my previous marriage living with us.
About five days ago she left to "find herself" and think about us. She suffered anxiety attacks before we met and is afraid she will fall back into it if she stays home, uncomfortable, arguing. It is not the first time she considers leaving, but it is the first time that she implements her exit successfully (like in two previous occasions she decided to stay).
We were currently living in CA. During the previous three months, we were apart from one another for work/study (half of that time I was away working, and the other half she was in FL studying). During that time we argue (I was jealous and complaint that she spend much more than needed, etc).
She got angry that I continue to be jealous, and said that if I cannot trust her after all these years she is not willing to stay in this relationship (more or less). For about a month she was home, living separated, embracing a 100% negative view of me--"damn if you do, damn if you don't" kind of thing. She was going to leave the house at the end of July, then postpone it, and then changed her mind again. So I stay in Cali with our son and she drove to FL taking our little daughter. She says that she will be back to visit in December; but doesn't want to give me any certainty of what she will decide... work on the marriage or D.
During the first weeks I begged, reasons, etc. You know the story. Then placed the house of sale to give her half of the proceeds ("proving" her that I love her more than money, and got her a new car to take to FL.) I suppose are all wrong decision I made out of desperation, trying to make a point. In any case, it will make D easier if it comes to that.
I am aiming to detach and keep GAL, but up to what point can I detach? I think is detachment from her, OR, keeping business for the sake of children. For them, we will need to be in frequent touch, FaceTiming, etc. I have the S with me; she has our D.
I don't have certainty if there is an EA or otherwise going on; but things don't make total sense to me. The "reasons" don't sound very sound to me. But of course, she operates based on her own perception of reality that matter, not mine.
By the way I am a service-member and one of my main consideration right now is if I should volunteer for deployment (some 7 months depending on where I am sent) or seek an oversees assignment in order to distance myself (usually some 3 years). In such cases I will need to leave in her custody our S. If she reconsiders, the family could reunite oversees. But… I am trying to think these potential options I wouldn't like to mess it up even more, trying to "fix" things up again.
I have been reading DR, and talking with a DBing coach, and reading these forums. I will appreciate tips and you accompaniment during this journey.
Thank you!
Nojo
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Me-43 W-35
MR 11
S10, D 7
WAW 8/5/17
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Thank you, Cadet.
It is partially a little late to fully apply your advice, but will keep it into account in the future. I already provided W with a scan of DR chap 1 (without revealing the book title). But I see the importance of your advise.
Nojo
Hello,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
I would hold off on volunteering for deployment, or any other major decisions at this point. However there are things that could work and make a difference. I suggest you mention this to your DB coach, as they are experts in looking at what has happened to bring you to this point in your relationship and what is the best way to interact with her, so that you are most likely to bring her closer and not push her any further away. Your coach's expertise will help you come up with a very specific plan (that may be counter intuitive to what you feel like saying and doing) on how to best turn things around.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Hi, I am sorry you are here. This is really hard stuff, but you will l get through it. I think Cadet's HW applies, even if you can't do it 100% or some time has passed. Many of us here did all the "wrong" things at first, but it is never too late to change! Please read all of it--there is so much great stuff in there. Mostly this is a time for self reflection and healing.
I don't think any of us can advise you on if you should go over seas, as that is a very personal decision. What would be best for the kids? Thank you for your service BTW.
What struck me most about your sitch is that she divided the kids. Was there a reason for this? Did you agree to this arrangement? I just CANNOT EVEN IMAGINE taking only one of my kids and leaving the other. I also would devastated and furious at my H if he did that. My kids love each other and we are raising them together. If you did not agree to this arrangement then there very well could be some legal ramifications to her taking your D across the country too.
Please keep posting here and reading other threads. Your sitch may have differences, but there are often similarities as well. WAW and WW often follow a script in their behaviors. You mention that things don't quite add up and she is unrceptive to talking about the M? Unfortunately, a lot of us eventually learn that there is some type of affair going on. So please be careful and smart about your plan of action.
Blu
Sorry to hear about your sitch. Volunteering for a deployment is a tough one. Detaching for that long could help out or it could leave the door open for something else to take place. Being former military myself, I've seen where spouses have cheated when the military member left. So I'm sure this fact has crossed your mind already. Deployments are tough enough without have troubled MR to worry about. With everything going on, I would suggest not deploying because of the children. Things are going to be tough for them with your wife "finding herself."
My W only see bad things in me. It is like if all of the sudden all good and positive traits evaporated from me.
The overwhelming majority of her comments, texts, and emails are literally and absolutely negative. Lately I am perceived by her not much less than a monster. She claims to "know" me so well that she knows my intentions and thoughts better than me. If I denied something she states, I am lying. According to W everything I say/or don't say, everything I do or avoid doing carries at its core some evil intention against her in one way or another. Every time, everything is about her...
Now ...
1) What is wrong with this human being?
2) For who long is this going to last this negativity?
3) What is the best way for me to respond to such negativity? I have found that reacting, exposing it, or confronting it doesn't change it. She shifts focus and ends up arguing about me being argumentative, or whatever to find more faults and to keep accusing me of this or that.
4) Up to what point to continue avoiding or ignoring?
Your insights about this malady and practical advice to temporarily cope with it are most welcome; particularly if base on your own experience with this issue. Thank you!
Nojo
Threads merged - stick to one thread until 100 posts
My W only see bad things in me. It is like if all of the sudden all good and positive traits evaporated from me.
The overwhelming majority of her comments, texts, and emails are literally and absolutely negative. Lately I am perceived by her not much less than a monster.
This is not uncommon. It's her way of convincing herself that pushing you away is the answer to all her problems. It's also her way of getting you onboard with her plans. She feels like if she's mean and treats you bad then you'll want D too. My XW was always the sweetest person I had ever known, but after BD she started treating me like crap and saying ugly things to me. A few weeks into it she finally told me that it was her way of trying to convince me that D was the answer, but she felt so guilty about it (because I was continuing to be nice to her) that she apologized and said she wouldn't do it anymore. And from that point on she never did again. So in some cases it's a conscious act.
2) For who long is this going to last this negativity?
As I mentioned above, in my case it was a few weeks. But every sitch is different and I've heard of it lasting months or even years.
3) What is the best way for me to respond to such negativity?
Read Sandi's rules:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2230603Live those rules! Also read the sticky thread on validating.
Your insights about this malady and practical advice to temporarily cope with it are most welcome; particularly if base on your own experience with this issue. Thank you!
Well, in my case I did not engage her. When she treated me bad and said mean things I just tried to roll with it as best I could. By then I had learned about validation and was putting it into effect. The beauty of validation is you're not agreeing with her, you are simply acknowledging her feelings. "You sound frustrated, I can understand why you feel that way." There's no fuel there for her fire. Tensions are high after BD and any little thing can flare up into a fight. You've got to take the high road because she WANTS to fight, it reaffirms her belief that D is the right thing to do and that you are a bad person. If you validate it throws her off her game plan. Do it consistently over time and she will eventually start to realize that maybe SHE is the problem and not you.
Something that stands out for me... you say "The overwhelming majority of her comments, texts, and emails are literally and absolutely negative.".... Is there any validity to her comments? It seems to me that maybe she's telling you exactly what's wrong with your marriage, but you're blowing it off. In retrospect, that's one aspect of what happened in my marriage.
Validate her comments, listen without arguing, don't pursue.... reread Sandie2's rules.
Regarding the deployment... IMHO, don't do it, primarily because it would just put one more roadblock between you and reconciliation. Time and distance are your friends, but let's not get carried away.
Got it, Cadet. What is your take on this issue. Do you have any insight and/or resource to share?
Thank you.
First of all thank you for your service.
My suggestion is to re-read my first homework post.
You need to DETACH and stop believing anything she says.
She is negative because that is the way her brain is wired right now.
She sees everything through a negative lens right now
because she is in a FOG.
Best to not worry about her and concentrate on YOU.
You did not break her and can not FIX her.
However you can FIX yourself.
You can control your own actions and words.
That is the best place to start.
Keep posting you are off of moderation.
Wow, I truly appreciate your input. All your comments are quite insightful.
A few days ago, after several day without contacting one another, an unexpected event occurred. W called me saying that she misses me and wants me. Then W proceed to inquired about me: are you talking with anybody, etc. I responded "no, but I am moving on with my life," and then evaded as much as I could evade. After about one hour, she was somehow bother, "you sound mechanic," "cold," etc. Then, I didn't give it much attention.
This morning I send her a text saying something like "I wake up thinking of you." A tinny "chasing" to see what happens. And... she didn't answer at all!! It seems that W's previous conversation was a trap.
Is this common? Did I missed an opportunity to get closer to her by keeping emotional distance during the conversation? What are we suppose to do? I need help with this one.
Thank you!
AnotherStander, thank you --and everybody else-- for taking the time to answer.
There are days when her negativity recedes, or goes away... until she gets bother for whatever, or if I don't give her more money than the usual, etc. Is like a tool she uses depending on the occasion.
W negativity, overall, is diminishing. My patience too (I might hold up for a couple more months, but will not for years...) As I mentioned on my previous comment, she gave indications of considering things, like if she now wants to come back home; although she didn't put it that way. What are the signs of true change of heart? What kind of conditions is usual to negotiate? Again, thank you.
Enjoy your day!
Deployments are tough enough without have troubled MR to worry about. With everything going on, I would suggest not deploying because of the children. Things are going to be tough for them with your wife "finding herself."
Tread, your view makes a lot of sense. I suppose that I was considering walking away in order to give her "space" and to keep myself very busy to avoid thinking about the MR... but "forgetting" the extra challenges that a deployment will impose on the children while W is away. It still can happen, of course, but I better don't ask for it.
Thank you very much!
Validate her comments, listen without arguing, don't pursue.... reread Sandie2's rules.
Regarding the deployment... IMHO, don't do it, primarily because it would just put one more roadblock between you and reconciliation. Time and distance are your friends, but let's not get carried away.
I still have a lot to learn about validation, and a ton of other things
Regarding volunteering for the deployment, it seems to be the consensus that will not be a good idea. I am holding my horses on this one.
Thank you!
Hello everybody,
I will appreciate the input from those that have experience on this one... W is saying that she is willing to come back home, and go to therapy with me, but only for the children. She is not sure about many "things between us", but wants to see if therapy works.
Is this a good idea or is it better to wait until she is fully committed to rebuilding our relationship? And what are the particular clues that indicate that she is actually "committed"?
Thank you for your insights!
She wants to do co-parenting counselling, not 'marriage counselling'. My W told me the same thing. If you feel that you both need to figure out how to communicate better, then go for the co-parenting counselling. But, don't hold any expectations about the MR. That requires a commitment to work on the MR and seeing a MC specifically for that.
I told my W that if she thinks we need co-parenting counselling, I am happy to attend, but I don't think we need that to figure out how to raise the kids.
She is bad at following through on things, so if she really wants it, let's see if she figures it out.
About her moving back home - will it basically be an in-house separation? If so, I would highly recommend you don't do that. In my sitch, if W told me she wants to live together again, at any point in time and not just right now, I would need certain things to me be met from her - IC for herself, MC sessions before I would consider moving back in.
I don't think her moving back in without committing to doing the hard work is a serious sign of recon, but maybe some folks who have been here longer can tell otherwise.
Here with feelings of support for you. Maika
This morning I send her a text saying something like "I wake up thinking of you." A tinny "chasing" to see what happens. And... she didn't answer at all!! It seems that W's previous conversation was a trap.
Yes, we call it temp checks. That's when she will check your emotional temperature to see how much you are still attached to the relationship. As soon as she sees she can yank on the rope and you jump at the chance to be with her......she immediately loses interest. Not that she really was really thinking of going back, but something made her want to check to see if you were "talking" to some chick. Nex time, don't be so quick to answer her nosy questions, and try to be a bit vague. Don't make up stuff, but you can sound a little more mysterious. do you know what I mean?
This morning I send her a text saying something like "I wake up thinking of you." A tinny "chasing" to see what happens. And... she didn't answer at all!! It seems that W's previous conversation was a trap.
Exactly! Currently, you cannot afford to tiny chases. Although it may have worked before your dating years, it only works against you with a WW. I hope you will remember this throughout this ordeal. No pursuit.......period.
I don't think her moving back in without committing to doing the hard work is a serious sign of recon, but maybe some folks who have been here longer can tell otherwise.
Maika, I agree with your assessment. Without a wholehearted commitment to MR it is dubious that therapy can offer a positive outcome. In fact, her return home with a negative/uncommited attitude might make things far worst than desired.
Thank you for your input.
Is anybody else out there that has experience in this issue/decision making point?
Thanks Swoop. Just saw your message. This board has saved me from myself in the last few months.
In fact, her return home with a negative/uncommited attitude might make things far worst than desired.
completely agree. you don't want an in-house situation.
I strongly discourage moving back in together if there has been no significant progress in her making amends, such as showing remorse and taking responsibility for her actions.....instead of blaming the H. If there is no commitment, then there's little chance of success. Piecing is not for the weak!
I think your W needs an entirely different mental attitude toward you before you take her back. She sounds as if she's doing a big favor for you! Do not let her come back under the terms she gave. It should be under your terms, since she walked out. You are just the safety net for her. Don't let her back too easily, or she'll be gone again.