Have been reading for years and posted once yesterday on someone's thread;so, decided it was time to jump in. I will try to keep it short but I have A Lot of time under my belt.
My story is typical MLC and WAH, if that is possible. At 41, I moved overseas to be with my husband and marry, thus giving up my career in the city to live in the remote countryside. I am very isolated here and have made friends but I think without children and with a lack of amenities, that part has been my biggest struggle. I was very social and had many friends before. My husband co-owns a company and although he is the extrovert and very likeable has very few (1 or 2) friends who live hours away and after MLC not really close. That said, we did socialise and travelled extensively. Otherwise, life was good and he was my best friend and we laughed a lot and I thought really truly loved each other. I guess that is why I am still here. Getting my head around waking up one day and life having been blown up with a new alien husband who is crazy. That is the hardest part. If we had grown apart or fought all the time I would find all this more accepting.
His seemingly loving family imploded when his brother started having a really unbelievable unseemly affair. Then my husband became entranced with his employee (half his age) over bonding about his brother and full blown MLC started. He has never been able to sit down and discuss our marriage or what happened. When his brother's affair came to light pre BD, we talked and I asked if we were ok, etc., and he assured me of how much he loved me and he would never do what his brother did and he was sick about it. A few months later, everything had changed.
Over the course of four years I have come to understand a lot about MLC and husband tics so many boxes, especially childhood traumas (brother dropping dead, friends deaths, and most insidiously--a sexual abuse encounter-which seems to be at the core of his arrested development) plus the family was in crisis and no one seems to have any of the needed tools in their tool boxes for coping.
Now me, no I am far from perfect. Could have communicated more and pressed him about some of my dissatisfaction but instead tried to suck it up and concentrate on how lucky I was to be in a happy marriage and if living where I lived was the worse part of my life, I was lucky. I was married late and was very happy with my life prior to meeting husband. People would often comment on how happy we were together. We did bicker but rarely had big arguments. We couldn't have children so the stress of kids was not there and we were financially sound. We had other struggles and the normal ebb and flow of married life. When I discovered his affair and confronted him, I thought he would end it and we would repair our marriage and I told him to leave. (My biggest regret.) thought he would break off affair as she was already engaged but no. He left, and in a very immature lame way tried to commit suicide (horrible to say but like teenage antics, took aspirin and texted her). There was never any true danger. And the roller coaster was on.
Please don't judge me too harshly, I was trying to quickly give background. I am really here as I feel I need support and divorce proceedings have started. Am not sure if husband is playing me, has a mean crappy lawyer, or is just so checked out he doesn't care.
I have a mediation appointment tomorrow which is preliminary. My lawyer sent letter to his and have no idea if that info was passed on to husband or if he is just avoiding it. If he doesn't go it will get kicked to court and cost us a fortune. Not sure if I should acknowledge the appt and let him know after the fact as that would send message that I am now moving forward with everything. Have been waiting for his financial disclosure since March in a divorce that he filed without notice. I am worried as he agrees with me over the telephone and his lawyer does something different and then he says he wants new lawyer and he told his lawyer not to file Decree Nisi but he filed anyway... which is possible but the MLC liar is also very possible. So, wish me luck and I hope my posts become more coherent to readers. I do really lean on this site for guidance and it has gotten me through the worst of times. I am so grateful.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Thank you. Think I may need to re-read some of them. I think I am losing my way and need to be redirected.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Hi Citygrl
Sorry you are here.
Just a quick question. It is not clear whether you would you like your (old) husband to come "home" or do you just want to get on with life without him?
I know it sounds crazy but I would like my husband back. I guess one reason I have held onto hope for so long is that every once in awhile I get a glimpse of the man he used to be not the 13-year old teenager. These occasions usually coincide with a serious conversation regarding his lifestyle. I know some of his darkest secrets and challenges and have always tried to be supportive. I wish he would seek help and on occasion he has said he will but after we speak the relief of opening up goes away and he shuts down and runs.
On the other hand, he filed for divorce, does not contact me, is with OW2 (which no one understands) and will say he wants to be amicable and go to mediation and agrees to my lawyer's terms and then I get blindsided. So, I am now trying to protect myself and prepare for a big move and new career and leaving my beloved pets. I think they are the only reason I have not moved back to the States. Going dim or dark doesn't seem to affect him. Don't think he notices. It is easier to run away.
It isn't crazy, Citygrl. No way to know what will happen, but it isn't crazy to want him back. My sitch is pretty close to yours, I guess a bit closer to final D. We both have to live with what is, but it isn't crazy. I think we can both confidently say that if we were in a crazy people line up with our H's, our numbers wouldn't be the first to be called right?!
Thank you for responding Treasur. I feel like I am so behind in my story because it has been so long and I just started posting. Along the way there have been ups and downs and times of hope and despair. One thing I never admitted to friends or family is that I had given myself the five year MLC deadline. I know I could get hammered for admitting that even here but I had heard so many stories of the MLCer seeing the light after five years. The divorce papers came sooner so now I am moving forward. I also use his brother as a benchmark since he is about six months ahead of my husband although different MLC circumstances and he is still a mess.
I have read all the info and books and have taken onboard GAL and do in some sense count myself lucky that he is a walk away as where I fail in GAL he won't notice. Last year I pushed the boat out and took an exotic vacation. Sadly, it did remind me that so many people are coupled up or have families with whom to travel. I am really good being by myself but am also very social; so, don't think I will repeat solo trip.
I think I need to start a new page and come up with some new goals so I have a plan about moving back, getting a new job, place to live, etc. It is daunting as it is a balancing act of finances. Since I haven't worked in 13 years I will have to pay up front for an apartment and probably cannot get a mortgage without a job., worried about retirement savings..... those are the things that keep me up at night and leaving my darling loveable pets who hate change more than I do.
Feel like I am rambling. Am scared at what I will find with his financial disclosure. He has been spending and now it looks like mediation not an option as I cannot trust him.
I have always been fiercely independent and supported myself. I finally took the leap into marriage only to have it end so crazily. I do know I will survive and get through it and will be fine, even if I am poor as a church mouse.
While I am on my roll, will also say that I feel so much shame in my failed marriage. I don't know why. That is why it is mega more bad that I was fired fro my marriage and never had an opportunity to make it work. I had no reason to believe my marriage was in jeopardy. My friends and family all support me and when I ask if there were things about my husband other could see that I couldn't, they all say no. They thought he was great, I was great we had a great marriage.
So many questions and no answers provided by husband.
P.S. How do I add the footer of:
Me 54, H 49
Met 2004
Married 2005
BD 2013
Is it called the poll?
P.S. How do I add the footer of:
Me 54, H 49
Met 2004
Married 2005
BD 2013
Is it called the poll?
Go up to MY STUFF
EDIT PROFILE
SIGNATURE
Submit
that should do it
Thank you Cadet. Hope I did it correctly.
Back from my preliminary Mediation appointment. Mediator never heard from my husband and now he has to be "invited"...so more time will pass. What I just don't understand is why he is dragging his feet so much. He was the one that filed for divorce without a heads up and then 7 months later for divorce Nisi without a heads up. Hasn't submitted his financial info, wants mediation but then....crickets.
Is it fear of parting with money or is he up to something financially? He and his brother own the company and brother's wife is divorcing him after discovering his affair. They have been divorcing for 3 years and it is the brother delaying the difference is the brother didn't want divorce but my H filed.
Now I have more communication with my lawyer and more legal bills. Crazy. .
Yup, had one of these. Best guesses? Shame, guilt, confusion, teenagers hate paperwork, worried that they will expose secrets or what a mess they're in, think of themselves as 'done' already so not a priority...
In the end, the reasons don't matter. Assume he won't participate and either a) use it to avoid D if that's what you want or b)accept that anything that needs adult collaboration is a waste of time and put the pressure on timescales with significant consequences.
Hello Citygrl,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
It is easy to be conflicted when you have so many emotions and thoughts going through your head!
Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Citygrl,
I don't get any of this stuff around divorce. Mine goes through spurts of D talk. Wanted it from Oct to Dec when he was with OW1. Didn't seem to want it Jan to June 2017. Now July/Aug with OW2 claims to want it. But won't go to a lawyer (as far as I know), won't tell me what he doesn't like about separation contract.
Have no idea why some run out and file right away and see it through. Others, like yours file and let it sit, and then the ones like mine who won't do it even when you beg them to. I swear it has become a running joke among everyone who knows me.
I try to focus on what do I need to live my life. Thankfully the time has been a godsend. I was not able to deal with this in January 2016. It has taken me this long to be mentally and financially ready.
What are your feelings about it? What do you want?
My feelings are all over the place recently. It seems whenever there is a respite it is followed by a sledge hammer. I know all I can do is keep moving forward with divorce and plan for the future.
Today I was proactive and wrote to the Mediator asking her to send the letter to my husband to get the ball rolling. I don't trust, now that I have the divorce Nisi (divorce is in 2 parts here) that he won't go ahead and get the Divorce Absolute without a financial settlement. So, my lawyers are thinking the court route is better for us only in that there will be a time table that he must adhere to. I had sent him a text on Friday saying I was disappointed he hadn't moved forward and made an appointment with the mediator and reiterated that his lawyer is hell bent on going to court as that is his reputation and he has been laying the groundwork, and that is where he makes his money. I never get any kind of upper hand. Today he sent me and "FYI" with an attached letter to him from his solicitor saying that he wouldn't apply for the Absolute because I would be so distressed and his understanding was that he wanted to get remarried.
A little bit ago, that statement would have floored me but am happy to say it didn't. I am feeling like it is par for the course and now the catty: if he wants to marry some uneducated skank from Eastern Europe who dresses like she is from the 70s and is his cleaning lady and looks like his mother but worse....fine. Happy him. Gross.
I try to then focus on all that has transpired and how I really don't know how I could ever sleep with him again after his dubious sexual partners and some other things that totally gross me out. It is quite a story. So, as I said am moving ahead until the situation turns and upsets me again. Frustrating. What happened to the lovely man he once was? Sorry to vent.
His lack of any class or decorum amazes me. Even at 13, I think I had better manners. The lack of respect really does sting but he and his family are just "avoiders of conflict" and only take care of themselves. Selfish.
...if he wants to marry some uneducated skank from Eastern Europe who dresses like she is from the 70s and is his cleaning lady and looks like his mother but worse....fine.
Citygrl,
I think I know her. Is her name Ivana Humpalot? Wasn't she in one of the Austin Powers movies?
Ha ha ha. Ivana is a thousand times more attractive than the Cleaning Lady. Does ivana wear gold lame leggings, pleather, and rat fur? It defies logic. When I focus on his choice, divorce does become easier. He is gross now. It's just crazy how he went off the rails. That's why the letting go is so hard. He is definitely another person than the lovely man I married.
Is anybody out there? Lol. Just wondering if I should respond to his email. Think it is wise to keep a line of communication available. He knew I would see the bit about him "wanting to get married" and painting me as distraught wife. He has no idea how hard it has been for me to keep my mouth shut and appear like milk-toast. Not sure if he is trying to hurt me and is angry or just insensitive.
Was thinking of just replying, " thank you for forwarding the letter. As we discussed, what I really need is for your lawyer to respond to my lawyer stating that you won't file for Divorce Absolute until there is a financial settlement. Also, do you have any intention of meeting with the mediator? If not, will proceed accordingly."
Or just not respond? Help please.
Is anybody out there? Lol. Just wondering if I should respond to his email. Think it is wise to keep a line of communication available. He knew I would see the bit about him "wanting to get married" and painting me as distraught wife. He has no idea how hard it has been for me to keep my mouth shut and appear like milk-toast. Not sure if he is trying to hurt me and is angry or just insensitive.
Was thinking of just replying, " thank you for forwarding the letter. As we discussed, what I really need is for your lawyer to respond to my lawyer stating that you won't file for Divorce Absolute until there is a financial settlement. Also, do you have any intention of meeting with the mediator? If not, will proceed accordingly."
Or just not respond? Help please.
Hello Citygrl,
That is a really good question. I would be hesitant to engage him in any dialog. What about forwarding his email to your lawyer?
The best advice I can give you is to call a Divorce Busting Coach today. Divorce Busting coaches will give you the best advice on how to save your marriage and get things moving in a more positive direction. Please call me to discuss our coaching program 303-444-7004
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Hi citygrl
Just read your sitch - we are like Sisters in S**t, aren't we? Only big difference I can see is you've been here since 2013 and me 2015. The good news though is that, on the days when we wonder if WE are the mad ones, at least we know there are two of us!
I'm at a bit of a confused stage now. Like you, the non action (and communication) makes the process of a D I never wanted much harder to respond to. IRL normally, we base our responses on how others act or what they say. We have a big vacuum in lots of ways where someone's mouth says nothing and their feet do inconsistent things. Which tends to suck me in to try to guess so I can figure out how to respond even though I know that mind-reading is pointless and impossible!
Do you know what you really want right now? I move around. Sometimes I just want it over and done with because I'm tired of living a life which makes no sense and where so many practical things are controlled by this weird action/inaction. Sometimes I think I don't want to actively push the very thing I don't want. I end up veering around between the two and being way too influenced by s/t emotions. It's a rough, weird place to be. The only things that I can see clearly are that
a) I deserve a break from this
b)it isn't my WTF chaos, my fault or mine to fix but I am collateral damage
c) my H's desire to run/avoid seems to be the most consistent pattern
d) I can't ignore the reality that my H (for reasons I can't understand) is doing what he's doing and shows no concern or interest in me at all
Have been musing on giving up vs acceptance. I think I might be doing the first but calling it the second? Having said that, I have no idea at all what to do about my M/H/D...none. I am plumb out of ideas. I just have a sneaky feeling that I'm missing a trick somewhere, a kind of self 180. Meanwhile, trying to focus on all the other things I can control and influence (with the odd pathetic 'where's my beloved/how can this be' duvet day now and then)
Next challenge...got my L to send £ proposal that H said was all he wanted 'to move on without going to Court'. A week ago. No response at all. Zip. Echoing silence. I have no idea what I will/should do if I've heard nothing by next week. My L will want to take the 'nuclear destruction' Court route because after 8 months, it's the only option left to protect me. Another L letter or email chasing a response seems pointless. And because he filed - nisi was in June - I can't stop H suddenly applying for Absolute even though he said he wouldn't before £ agreement. And I can't stop him adding some more fun WTF like raiding the household a/c again because I can't remove my name without him co-signing a bit of bank paperwork. And I can't make him talk to me and I can't make him do any of the practical things he has said he would do about the house sale or joint stuff. Hmmm.
But I am wondering if I am accidentally giving up on any hope because I feel so powerless with such a long list of 'can't'.
If I didn't mind read and had a PMA and decided to accept what I can't control but also pick up my DB banner and keep fighting for my M....I wonder what I might do next which is a 180 but not idiotic?
T. Just posted a tiny blurb on your site.
Wow. We really are having same issues. I know I keep saying that! Had conversation with lawyer last night regarding: husband not responding; husband's lawyer not responding; getting a copy of a letter he sent me from his lawyer to him where it mentions that his lawyer was processing things through because he thought husband wanted to get re-married but understood why he may not want to file for Divorce Absolute because of the "emotional distress" I am in. WTF!!! I can just imagine what husband is saying and does he truly believe I am just waiting around for him and love him so much!!
Plus, find it interesting he sent me that letter after I texted him I was disappointed he didn't respond to attending or making an appointment with the Mediator. Now she has to send him a formal request. Can't file to court without Form A signed from her. Think he sent it to me so I cauld see he wants to get remarried even though I have asked him on a few occasions if he was going to remarry and that was why he wasn't agreeing to not apply for DA until finances were settled and he said NO.
Those that are still reading... no, it has not gone unnoticed that maybe he thinks I am waiting around for him because A. I am/was. But in fairness, since he is a WAH he really has no idea what my life is about aside from credit card bills. I have still vacationed and travelled but because I have not moved back to the States (for legal reasons and my beloved cats which I cannot take to a large city as they are outdoor, roaming the fields cats). He can't see my changes because I have not seen him in 9 months, and I have gone extremely dim. I have worked hard on GAL and making friends, keeping busy, etc.
Treasur, I am with you. I feel like I am missing a 180 but not sure what that is. I have tried expressing anger at times and that doesn't work, tried to just communicate normally but not engage, tried being friends but I messed that up when I learned he was taking OW2 away on big holiday, after speaking to me on phone for an hour or 2 every day. I get confused with boundaries I think. Thought he was cake eating by having my emotional support and friendship while off with OW2.
He was very good friends with his first wife as they parted very amicably and she remarried the guy she met a few months earlier from when my husband and I met. They had no kids as she didn't want them. And we all got along very well. I thought it showed a maturity in my husband to have thar relationship and I know a few other couples that are the same. I chocked it up to them being young when they became couple and growing apart. Now I am rea mining that theory. Anyway, wanted my husband to know that the best friend happy ex couple scenario was a one off. When divorce is final, I am gone and door is slammed shut. I think that is why I have left it open a crack.
Sorry if my posts are disjointed as I am one finger typing on my iPad because I do not trust the security of my home computer.
Bombshell news just arrived and, of course, it's a doozy from crazy MLC husband!
I haven't been posting because I have been living vicariously through Treasur and OwnIt but think I may need to get some thoughts down.
Learned this morning that MLC H has dumped frumpy, old, weird (I am told), Eastern European cleaning lady, whom he met cleaning his self-imposed bachelor pad for.....wait for it.....another Eastern European (from a better looking country; the same country of choice from which his married brother picked his!) he and OW2 were on a very generic low brand cruise to a cold country (as is the of choice when you already live in a country of no summer, sarcasm) when he met Olga now OW3 (have no idea what her name is).
So let's recap. Was on holiday with OW2 (who he told his lawyer he wanted to marry) met Olga in the casino, spent the night with her and came back and told everyone. Now OW2 is stalking him. Bet she is bummed her money train has left the station. No sympathy for OW2 as she started sleeping with him when he was with the "love of his life" the half his age, engaged--who's fiancée also worked for my husband--OW1.
Are you following 'this This is what happens when you are four years in. And and and, this is only half the story!
So, a few things now that the juicy titillating bits are out there. For anyone out there wondering how crazy it can get. This is it. There is so much more. Am now going to really pursue divorce as it is just a matter of days before this one goes pregnant. For that I am certain.
The bad news is I can no longer keep tabs on his spending and vacations as OW2 is out of the pic, so no FB info.
To all those still reading: I am not a crazy loon. I am from a family where everyone is happily married, am educated, had a career I enjoyed and disposable income, HAD a great normal, loving, fun husband who I adored and seemed to adore me until MLC got him. It is heartbreaking watching him destroy his life. Am shocked he met Olga in a casino as he never had ANY interest in gambling. My guess is Olga is a prostitute who works the ships or was working in the casino. Who does that? Who hooks up with someone while on vacation with another? The MLC man. That's who.
One of the missing pieces to the puzzle is why does he do and say everything his brother does? His brother and he are so different. His brother started MLC and my husband followed. I get the issues that threw my H into MLC but don't truly get the brother connection. Am hesitant to write entire story as B plays a huge role but has a lovely STBXW and children. I am always afraid that the story is so weird that someone will read here and know them.
Surprisingly, I feel fine and like I just got a good piece of gossip. Is that detachment? I am happy OW2 got her comeuppance (even though if Olga blows up OW2 and he may get back together). Tired of turning other cheek and being big person. Ha ha ha OW2. You are old enough to know better. A year go this would have sent me into major downward spiral. Maybe it hasn't hit me.
So, am processing this and STILL feel so much sympathy for H. He is a mess and ruining his life. My fix-it tendencies want to reach out to him as I did last time he was out of control but this is a different situation. So no worries, am staying extremely dim (only contact re divorce stuff) and detached. Guess I am not detached as still interested in his drama but now as an onlooker.
Comments anyone? What is there to say? He is not getting off the crazy train.
Oh my, citygrl - he's on the crazy MLC train for sure...
I think there is a stage of detachment where you feel like you're looking through a window at it all. There are a mixed bag of emotions, but less of the killer punch ones.
Sounds as if you're worried about finances and what the impact might be of his next stop on the trainline? Probably wise, even if you can't do anything about the latter.
What do you think is the next step to protect yourself legally and financially? Does Oily Olga change that?
Ahhh. Cruise ship romance. Can't beat it, especially while away with OW2 at same time.
Have the weekend to give it some thought. Have already discussed with my lawyer the next step which was to give him a week to decide on Mediator and if haven't heard than get out the big guns and file in court.
Don't really want court option because of the expense but it will force deadlines on him. He will say that he didn't get mediator letter because he was on vacation. But every instinct tells me pregnancy is on the way and I need to act quickly. Sure Olga was on the cruise in whatever capacity trolling for a Baby Daddy and she just hooked herself a winner.
Threatening court might prod him as it did with my H. And normally it takes about 3-4 months before first hearing in the UK...suspect it's designed that way because a lot of folks then get motivated to reach agreement rather than have the costs of litigation.
Sounds like your gut is saying to drive the process a bit harder and quicker.
Why do you think pregnancy is an issue?
Wow, that's quite something to go on holiday with one woman and come back with another....eek! I'm sorry if OW2 is in a slightly crazy, stalking place - but as she is finding, life tends to unfold in karmic ways, based on your earlier choices.
It is good that you are managing to rein in any fixing tendencies towards him. He's a grown man and not your life partner any more. How he chooses to manage his own life is up to him. It has certainly helped me to think that way about myself and about XH too.
I would focus on moving healthily forward with an emphasis on your own security and finances. Do what works best for you in a fair and graceful way.
Xx
Think pregnancy is an issue for a few reasons:
He never wanted children with his first wife, mainly driven by her.
We tried to have children but couldn't and tabled the issue. He never expressed any feelings ever towards wanting a child.
Smash, bam, boom. He and OW1 talk about having kids and he tells me that is one of the reasons he wants out of marriage. WTF? That stung big time. Never revisited that one with me.
Goes to fertility clinic last year with OW2 who is in her 40s. Nothing transpires.
Last reason is, brother's web prostitute had his child and husband likes to follow brother.....and it is standard for a lot of women (especially from the Eastern block) to get pregnant to get taken care of for life. Husband is surely flashing the cash. Not sure but she either worked on the ship or "works" the ship. My guess is the latter.
What better father than he??? Deluded. Am getting out before that.
Aah, I see...grim. But I see your point.
I had a similar situation CityGirl. I met XH a year after he had S from his W number one. His S was 4 at the time. We dated for a couple of years then started living together. At that point, we decided I would stop taking the pill and we'd leave things in the lap of the gods. We were both in our late 30s at that point, but I never did conceive.
When he told me he wanted a D (he was heavily involved with OW in her 20s by now) - he said he loved me, I was beautiful and had been the best W possible - but he knew he needed a new family now. I think it can be one of the areas that the MLCer focuses on - and it can go either way - either wanting kids, or not wanting to be a family man/woman any more. Luckily for me (whilst I keep in touch with SS and his Mum) I don't really get to hear what XH and OW are up to - Yay!
Take care and try not to give him and his antics too much energy - just do whatever is best for you. Xx
City your guy is messed up. I guess this is what the 4 year mark looks like. I can't wait. Mine, a life long anti-alcohol crusader is now drinking in addition to his AD addiction. He has just started spending money so I guess that is next. What joy.
I know! Maybe Olga will straighten him out.
I do get flashes of great husband but they are exactly that and too few and far between. So so sad. He is in there but I fear never to return. I still haven't crashed since the news and don't think I will; so, that is progress.
Was wondering if he is revisiting early replay or is just absolutely bonkers. I fear for his big crash if it ever comes and will I ever know if and when it does. Need to put that drop down oxygen mask on myself first and cut the cord on his. Lol.
If he is going through early replay again it is interesting that now I can kind of watch it without feeling the drama of first time around when I was wondering and trying to figure out what was happening.
Bad news if he is now taking up gambling or was he just there to hook up with Olga the Ukrainian? Will he get back with the cleaning lady? I guess I am taking delight in the crash of the cleaning lady relationship as I was beginning to think that maybe I was wrong and the relationship was strong and legitimate.
I have also now lost my way of financially tracking his many many holidays and weekends away. Also, he NEVER takes cash out of the bank. I know they do cash deals with the company and they will be impossible to trace. I have been keeping my ATM receipts to prove all cash withdrawals are mine. Would a legal person ever believe that he never uses cash? It's not impossible but highly unlikely.
Citygirl, just catching up on your thread. Wow, you really do have a lot to put up with. What makes these normally rational men to suddenly go crazy and hook up with the mist unsuitable women! It's unreal!
I also live in the South West trains area... :0)
So, haven't been writing much but reading tons. Think I can just cut and paste Treasur's posts on mine. Hope that doesn't make me appear like a stalker!
Still haven't heard from H regarding mediation and will need to make decision this week of filing the nuclear option of going through the courts. My instincts are usually pretty good and do think Olga the Ukrainian is going to get pregnant. H off on a jaunt to see her. Plus think she will be a very expensive distraction.
When did he turn so seedy and disgusting and sexually obsessed? Does this have to do with his childhood sexual abuse? The new H is just so "ICK" and immature? Really feel like his latest action of being on vacation with OW2 and Meeting OW3 on the ship I still can't get my head around. In the long run, have not given up on OW2 coming back in the picture if things explode with Olga.
My H has always been to trusting and naive and now he has hormones fueling him. Oye vey! Got to get off the crazy train.
Radio silence from him. To be expected. He has clearly moved on to a "better life."
Ha ha - I write enough words for two, Citygrl!
My best advice is don't let the sense of limbo or frustration push you into a decision. Choose what is best for you and take your time to do that.
Haven't posted much as not much happening and emotions have kind of dulled. Think getting the Nisi and learning of his dramatic exit from OW2 to OW3 and already off to the Ukraine has actually helped. It confirmed in cement how messed up he is and how OW2 got what she deserved. Wouldn't be surprised if things don't go well with OW3 that he will bounce back to OW2 so preparing for that.
I feel like I am just numb to it all. The man I married and loved and adored and vice versa has vanished. Maybe I will be lucky to get out and his crash and burning will be devastating. More that he is a fool for giving up someone who knew many of his issues and could have supported him and loved him through healing if he had wanted to confront his demons and vanquish them.
Had an email tonight from him about mediation which I started the process and he didn't respond until Mediator sent him a letter. Am too tired and really feel nothing. Will respond later.
Is that an unintentional 180? Feeling apathy? Or part of the healing process. Not really feeling any anger just exhaustion and ......... apathy. That must be my word of the day.
I do think apathy is a necessary part of not caring (by definition). I was so obsessed with getting my separation contract and now I just don't care what he does. I'll continue to find ways to organize my life around not needing anything from him. In those instances where I can't get by, I'll just send him a paper to sign. So far he's been doing that.
I had the same thoughts. I knew his issues and was willing to help him with them. How could that not mean anything. How could it be more satisfying to live a series of lives with people who will really never know you or care about you. Oh well, too late for all of that. Gotta focus on other stuff now.
Wouldn't it be nice to be with a guy who had a lot less baggage?
Ah, yes, but I think we all have baggage now. Maybe a man with light luggage would be the find.
Woke up now with all this mediation correspondence in my head. Wish he would just go away sometimes. He pops up at the worst times. Am leaving on trip tomorrow and have a million things to do and instead of looking forward to holiday am stressed and now have to add email response and another talk with attorney. Ching Ching. Hate feeling anxious.
It's understandable that we all get to the point of just being tired of the drama really. Don't know if it's apathy, but the person we knew is invisible really, so it's just dealing with the crappy fallout. And few sane people would get excited and skippy about that kind of admin!
I think we initiate things or deal with them when we feel strong enough to do so. Most of our spouses then add an extended period of inactivity before they throw a few odd spanners in, don't they? and by then, our mindset is different or we're dealing with other stuff. It is frustrating.
What's the anxiety about?
Actually, just occurred to me that my crazy H popped up in June literally the day before I was heading off for my first holiday in 18 months...weird...no way he could have known.
Wouldn't be surprised if things don't go well with OW3 that he will bounce back to OW2 so preparing for that.
Or off to OW4. Wow, he's on quite the ride through Crazy Town! Glad you're not on the ride with him!
I feel like I am just numb to it all. The man I married and loved and adored and vice versa has vanished.
I think that's the hardest part for many of us is accepting that our former spouse is well and truly gone. That is the case for many of us- it isn't a matter of our spouse just changing their mind and they need to change it back again, it is a situation where -they- have changed in deep and significant ways. They really are not the person we married and knew before.
Is that an unintentional 180? Feeling apathy? Or part of the healing process. Not really feeling any anger just exhaustion and ......... apathy.
You're dropping the rope. There will be times where you pick it back up again, but eventually even that will stop.
I feel like I am just numb to it all. The man I married and loved and adored and vice versa has vanished.
I think that's the hardest part for many of us is accepting that our former spouse is well and truly gone. That is the case for many of us- it isn't a matter of our spouse just changing their mind and they need to change it back again, it is a situation where -they- have changed in deep and significant ways. They really are not the person we married and knew before.
Had this thought driving home today. My mother with dementia keeps asking about my H and wants him to visit. The MiL that loved and supported him for 20 years while his own mother told him what a POS he was constantly. But there's no point. The H I knew who was tender and kind and enjoyed my mother spoiling him no longer exists. He probably wouldn't care. He'd probably see it as pressure and might fear she'd give him grief. (Ironically she loves him and only knows he's been ill, she's just worried about him and wants to see him before she dies.) He definitely wouldn't do anything. Same H who was happy for me to share paying £400 a month towards his grandmother's care for 3 years and organise her 100th birthday party...pffft...counts for nothing in MLC land.
So no point. I do think, even when the rope is dropped, it's still hard now and then to wrap your head around the scale of the change in them. And why they couldn't change to be a better less crazy version! In RL, people don't get it all. Coming here helps us keep ourselves sane, I think, but it still makes my jaw drop sometimes. It is a useful reminder though that it is NOTHING to do with us or our M. It is quite possible to end a M without doing a 180 on who you are or your own values....but not in MLC land.
Sad though. My H was a really decent human being and now he isn't.
And why they couldn't change to be a better less crazy version!
RIGHT????? I guess maybe that does happen, but the spouses who are gifted with that "awesome spouse" transformation have no need to come here to talk about it, LOL!
My H was a really decent human being and now he isn't.
I really feel sorry for those of you dealing with full-blown MLC. I went through Dante's 9 circles of hell (plus a few more for extra credit), but my XW was nothing compared to the world of crazy some of you are dealing with!
Thank you for your responses. I have been writing on everyone else's posts when I should be getting advice not trying to give it.
While I was away, I face timed husband as he was texting again in very minute panic about me now foregoing mediation. Conversation started very businesslike and told him after six months of him failing to disclose finances and his lawyer not responding to mine, I needed to protect myself.
Sometimes I always slip into the conversation that I don't get why the delay as he is the one that filed and then went for the Nisi, etc. I am always extraordinarily calm and professional. No emotion. Anyway told him what was happening and I haven't ruled out mediation but the courts would force deadlines.
Didn't tell him that I didn't really like the Mediator and was afraid New Ukrainian girlfriend was going to end up pregnant. Takes a lot for me to keep that kind of stuff in.
Conversation than turned to small talk where he told me he " ended his relationship with OW2". Of course I knew why and how it ended and he didn't mention new Ukrainian. How am I supposed to react to that info? Why does he feel the need to tell me? After a moment of silence (his trick that I am adapting) I just said something along the lines of I don't really care about that.
Conversation than turned to his parents, how "busy" he is at work (sick of hearing it) and then really fun conversation where we laughed a lot like old times. At the very end of the conversation he said how it was really nice to talk.
I hung-up not upset or confused but conflicted. Feel like he looks to me for affirmation that I can't give because as a boundary for me I can't get sucked back in to being his bestie when he is off with other women. He kind of treats me like a mother. Ick.
That is the crux of it. I have tried to be his friend but cannot reconcile doing that when he then takes OW on fab vacations and stays where we stayed, etc.
He/we are/were really good friends with his ex wife and her husband and that is not the same mutual break-up of marriage we had. He needs to be liked and I know carries so much guilt about what he did but not enough to want to change.
Could never tell the difference between cake eating and his need to be liked. There were times when he would come over and do things around the house and we would cook things for each other but going NC doesn't faze him either. I get no reading on him. Same with divorce. He files then it drags and then he does something. Soooooo confused. Any ideas?
Conversation started very businesslike and told him after six months of him failing to disclose finances and his lawyer not responding to mine, I needed to protect myself.
Good job!
Of course I knew why and how it ended and he didn't mention new Ukrainian. How am I supposed to react to that info? Why does he feel the need to tell me? After a moment of silence (his trick that I am adapting) I just said something along the lines of I don't really care about that.
I'm guessing there's a bit of CYA going on, now that you've put him on notice that you're not just going to roll over on the D he's probably trying to give you the impression that the door is still open in the hopes that you'll go easy on him in the D. Good response!
At the very end of the conversation he said how it was really nice to talk.
I hung-up not upset or confused but conflicted.
Why were you conflicted? Did you allow his throwing you a few crumbs to give you hope that maybe things will turn around? I am convinced his motives are driven completely by his own selfishness right now. Don't fall for the act.
That is the crux of it. I have tried to be his friend but cannot reconcile doing that when he then takes OW on fab vacations and stays where we stayed, etc.
Don't you think that maybe dropping him as a friend would be the healthiest thing for YOU?
I get no reading on him. Same with divorce. He files then it drags and then he does something. Soooooo confused. Any ideas?
That does happen a lot, same with my XW. I wonder if I hadn't finally pushed the D through if we'd still be married and living separately today. Once I removed the pressure from her she just completely dropped the D. And yes, it is confusing. But it seems that way because they ARE confused. They don't know that what they're doing is the right thing. They're torn and conflicted on the inside even though they don't usually show it on the outside.
City, why do they say these things? Last time mine was here he gave me the count of his sexual partners to date (clearly a lie). Since he was a virgin when we married it is obviously a painful number since we are in fact still married. And trust me, I opened the door to nothing that would have brought that out.
I hear you on the friend thing. I think I tried that for a while for the sake of the kids and then thought, wait a minute. This guy lied to me, cheated on me repeatedly, walked out on his kids, treats me like enemy number one, constantly plays games, and is continuing to screw around without moving forward on our divorce. I would never be friends with a third party under those circumstances and this guy did these things TO ME and TO MY KIDS. No thanks.
At this point I manage a sort of snarly civility, and only then when I need something from him (which I go out of my way not to need). This was not an agreed breakup. Nothing about this was normal in my case or yours. Friendship with someone who is incapable of being a friend is not really an option.
I have a couple of things about my situation that are making it easier at present: 1) he is still paying; 2) he leaves me alone; 3) I never get the mushy, confusing stuff; 4) my lawyer does not want me to divorce him. Given these factors, I'm just living my life and letting him do the same. I've stopped interfering when he is awful to the kids and they are doing ok with it.
Although I'm a lawyer, I still don't get all this nisi and absolute stuff that you are Treasur are dealing with. My advice, do what feels emotionally right. If you don't know what that is, then do what makes your life the easiest. Don't factor his welfare in at all. Don't wish for some pie in the sky after he gets sick of eating all those sour cream laden Ukranian dishes.
Thank you both for weighing in. I really needed to bounce those feelings off. Today I am feeling creeping doubt about filing in court. Like OwnIt bills are paid, no questions asked. Now, I am going into the unknown with more costly legal bills. I keep telling myself that it is just to get the financial disclosure from him but that he will freak out and turn ugly when he sees my financial requests.
Although lawyers all say it would be good to get half, I had a new imaginary conversation in my head. Basically, when he will inevitably tell me I am asking too much, I willl turn to him and ask, "How much does it cost to start over?"
He forgets that I relocated and gave up my family, friends, and career to move here (in the middle of nowhere and very isolated) and start a new life. He is just living more of his status quo with a successful business (until it isn't when disclosure comes into play). He makes me so mad. Jerk. D#%k.
One thing I never admitted to friends or family is that I had given myself the five year MLC deadline. I know I could get hammered for admitting that even here but I had heard so many stories of the MLCer seeing the light after five years.
Sadly, it did remind me that so many people are coupled up or have families with whom to travel. I am really good being by myself but am also very social; so, don't think I will repeat solo trip.
Am scared at what I will find with his financial disclosure. He has been spending and now it looks like mediation not an option as I cannot trust him.
While I am on my roll, will also say that I feel so much shame in my failed marriage. I don't know why.