Hi all,
I just found this site and Michele's book last week.
This is my first post & I'm hoping to get some clarity, guidance, perspective.
July 21st after a small argument, not speaking for a couple of days, my husband told me he's miserable & I made his life miserable & wants a divorce.
I had just gotten home from work when he came to the bedroom & dropped this bomb.
He started to walk out & I asked if he had nothing else to say & couldn't we talk about it?
He didn't want to, but allowed me 5-10 minutes where he proceeded to blame me for all of his unhappiness, then left. He came back the next day, didn't say a word to me, nor I to him, got a few things & left.
Came back the following day to water, get some things from the garage & left.
I heard nothing from him until the following Tuesday when he told me he was going to an attorney to start the process & would like to be fair.
What would I like moneywise, assets. BTW, we just bought a house 3 months ago.
I didn't respond because I was actually going to counseling that day & wanted some direction before I responded.
My therapist suggested I simply ask to talk in person & leave it at that. I did & he said no, there's no going back just wanted to know what I wanted in the divorce. I said ok & do what you need to do.
He proceeded to text me a few more times over the next couple of days with the same & tried to ignore him until I finally told him to stop & give me a chance to see an attorney as well.
He came by the house on Saturday to get more things from the garage. I only heard him when he was in the front of the house & looked out the window just in time to see him flip off the house. I texted him that if he wanted to be civil, why would he do that? He responded angrily that now I was crying (when I looked out the window I was crying & had been before he got there) but wasn't emotional when he left.
As I mentioned we just bought a house & are in the middle of renovations.
I had just gotten the a/c repaired after it not working for the last 2 months & hearing it on made him angry. He believes the length of time it's taken to complete projects is all my fault (indecisive).
Now that he's left I'm on the ball & get the a/c fixed (hence the finger). We proceeded to go back & forth over text & I finally just called him & asked him to talk to me. He was angry & said he hated our relationship, I was controlling.
He said I never let him make any decisions in our old apt. & thought things would change when we bought this house.
Our sex life was pretty non-existent, said I hated his friends (a couple, not all), the city we live in (not my first choice, but getting used to it), we didn't have kids because I was too controlling. I have a son from a previous relationship and once my son hit 19, he left the house & went to live w/ my parents.
Now he says, I let my son leave when he was still in high school (not true) because I didn't like the way he parented my son. I always thought he was a little too hard, but acknowledged I was just being overprotective, but never stopped him from parenting because it wasn't abusive/harmful.
Outside of my dad/brothers, he is the only father-figure my son has & has been in my son's life for more than half of it. Sex & choices on the house I knew were an issue, but the others were all new to me. We ended the conversation with him saying he's sorry it has to be this way, but he was filing. I texted him after that I loved him & was sorry I didn't make him happy. He texted he loves me too, doesn't hate me just the relationship & is sorry its come to this.
Some relationship backstory... We've been together 14 years and married almost 10 (in Sept). I thought we had a good relationship, not perfect, but laughed a lot & truly enjoyed being w/ one another.
He left one time before about 7-8 years ago for a few weeks, but came back.
We briefly went to counseling, but really only tried to work on our communication ourselves, which I thought we were. He has been stressed. His mother who he was close to, passed away in '09 & this Jan. his father was diagnosed with dementia. B/t his sister & himself, they've been trying to care for their dad, who still lives alone but is declining in certain aspects. He & his sister constantly fight over his father's care.
He's had a lot of built-up aggression & started individual counseling, anger mgmt classes about 1.5 years go. It's been inconsistent though.
Add the stresses of a new house, renovations & our own marital issues & he blew.
The initial "small" argument was that we were supposed to travel to his friend's wedding.
I was responsible for booking travel. It was expensive, but offered to pitch in because I knew it was important to him. Was prolonging it in hopes of finding a deal but hadn't recently communicated that. Two days before he left, he told me to stop looking & we weren't going. He didn't want to look dumb & cancel at the last minute. It's a petty reason, but I really believe w/ all of the stress he was looking forward to this trip. When it didn't happen, he was upset & all of that highlighted my flaws.
Since our last phone conversation, he filed on 8/31 - I looked it up online. I believe (not 100% sure)they tried to serve me 2 days later.
I was in the shower & could hear the doorbell ringing (we never have visitors).
By the time I got out, no one was there. It's been a week & I'm just waiting for them to come back. In 2 weeks, my son is moving 5 hours away to finish school.
He texted if he could come by to discuss the sale of the house but I told him I was busy w/ my son's move. I also still haven't received any legal counsel & said once I get through this move, I will deal w/ the divorce. He said fine, but he's only seen a paralegal & was trying not to go the attorney route, so this would be civil. He has also not even bothered to call my son, which is really hurtful. I would normally say our son, but based on his actions, it's too painful.
Like many, this severe reaction is coming out of nowhere. I knew some of these issues, I just didn't know how deep they ran. His lack of interest in trying to work things through, go to counseling, which he says we've tried (yes, 8 years ago for 3 sessions), is shocking to me.
My first reaction was an affair, but I looked through our phone bills & nothing too suspicious (although he has since removed his phone from the family account).
He doesn't go out at night or on weekends w/out me that would cause suspicion.
I'm not ruling it out, but I'm also trying not to focus on that too much either.
I love my husband & would love nothing more than to reconcile & work on our marriage.
I know my part in this.
I also know, I have little control in that aspect, but with the filing it all seems to be going so fast. I haven't had any communication with him in a week and have little hope.
As I approach the 3rd week since he's left, I'm slowly picking myself off the floor and trying to GAL (counseling, reading the book, had drinks w/ friends).
There is zero communication, but I know I will have to text him about the mortgage payment.
He makes it & it hasn't been done. I'm dreading a response that he will not.
I apologize for the length, it just spilled out.
Thoughts, insight, suggestions are truly appreciated.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Hello LAJar,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
I'm glad you found this site and Michele's book. Focus all of your time, effort and energy into being the best LAJar and Mom that only a fool would leave.
Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Hello LA, welcome to the forums!! I really hope you don't take the following as an attack but I'm reading some things in your post that do concern me, and feel they need to be brought to your attention so you can focus on what you need to do 180's on.
He was angry & said he hated our relationship, I was controlling.
Do you think you're not controlling? Because I kind of get the impression from your first post that you might have some tendencies in that direction.
said I hated his friends (a couple, not all)
the city we live in (not my first choice, but getting used to it)
Now he says, I let my son leave when he was still in high school (not true) because I didn't like the way he parented my son. I always thought he was a little too hard, but acknowledged I was just being overprotective, but never stopped him from parenting because it wasn't abusive/harmful.
Sounds to me like his above complaints are valid, and you're trying to explain them away as no big deal. There are a few lessons here, one is that what may not seem important to you may be EXTREMELY important to your spouse. Another is that when your spouse expresses displeasure about something, the proper response is to listen and validate. His feelings MATTER! If you try to argue or explain away his complaints, you INVALIDATE his feelings which makes him feel like you don't listen and don't care. Third, you probably complained a lot about these things, like the city you live in "not my first choice but getting used to it." Did you ever tell him you were getting used to it or did he just hear non-stop about how it wasn't your preference to live there?
All this kind of stuff generates a lot of negative energy and resentment which builds up over time. It sounds to me like he finally just had enough. Have you read DR? If not, do so right away. Also consider a DB coach, they can help you navigate this rough time. What you need to do is remove all pressure from him. Give him time and space. Do 180's on those things you were doing wrong in the M- it sounds like from your first post that listening and validation are two areas you could work on.
Sex & choices on the house I knew were an issue, but the others were all new to me.
For most men a lack of sex in marriage is a giant issue. It sounds to me like you are kind of brushing it off here. It's not something you can work on now, but if and when you start reconnecting then that would be another area to do a 180.
I thought we had a good relationship, not perfect, but laughed a lot & truly enjoyed being w/ one another.
I'll be honest with you, as a man, reading your post just made be cringe. It sounds like a terrible relationship, not one I would want to be stuck in for sure. I'm really not trying to beat you up but you need to see the truth of it to understand the magnitude of the changes you need to make if you want to recon. You really need to see what you were doing wrong here, because I think you see it all as minor stuff and it is not. Case in point:
Like many, this severe reaction is coming out of nowhere.
I don't think that at all. There were a lot of red flags in the relationship.
His lack of interest in trying to work things through, go to counseling, which he says we've tried (yes, 8 years ago for 3 sessions), is shocking to me.
Not really, he's probably been complaining for years and waiting for things to change. That's pretty typical- the WAS complains which makes the LBS get angry and shut down. Eventually the WAS quits trying and plans their escape. The LBS thinks things are BETTER because of the lack of complaints, so BD comes as a shock. I'm not saying he did the right thing, BD usually happens because both parties are checked out of the M and have been for quite some time. They both quit trying to fulfill the other's needs.
I haven't had any communication with him in a week and have little hope.
There's no reason to give up hope. He was attracted to you originally, and he can be again. You have to get back to that person he was originally attracted to. Think about how you can do that.
There is zero communication, but I know I will have to text him about the mortgage payment.
He makes it & it hasn't been done. I'm dreading a response that he will not.
If it comes to that then hire an attorney and discuss how to protect yourself financially.
Hi AnotherStander,
Thank you for your honest response. I'm not sure how to quote as you did, so bear with me.
No attack taken. I'm not going to lie, a stranger saying you might be a bit controlling from a forum post, stings a bit. I acknowledge that I can be controlling. I feel like I'm somewhat self-aware, but lack the tools to correct the behavior effectively and permanently. I tried to work on my approach, sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't. Just curious, what about my post made you think that?
I never complained about his friends. I had an issue with 1 when we first got together, which we resolved. Another who he rarely saw is a drug abuser and only called my husband for money. I didn't care for that, but had my husband wanted to be around him, I would have. The move was difficult. It added an extra 25 minutes to my commute making it an hour. I didn't complain incessantly about it but at the beginning it was frustrating. I got over it. I agreed to the move, so I had to get over it & shut up. I told him I needed time for it to feel like home, but it would come. It's just my process.
I do believe all of his complaints are valid. I recognize we're different people & what's important to him may not be as important to me. I think I listened after the fact, meaning I should have done a better job leading up to/avoiding the argument. Validating his feelings was something I also should have done better at. Hindsight. Maybe when the behaviors continue, even if they're acknowledged, it conveys invalidation?
I have my own issues with sex. I knew he wanted it, he knew I was standoffish. I didn't acknowledge how it made him feel when I put him off. For me though, his approach was lacking as well, but not something we ever discussed. For a woman, that's a hard one to bypass.
Another stinger, you write that our relationship seemed pretty terrible. In what I conveyed, what made it seem "pretty terrible"? Harsh, but it's what I'm looking for. I can see some of my behaviors, just not all of them. I was mistaken to believe all of the time we spent together, the fun we had, getting through the outside work & family difficulties together was evidence of a good relationship. Not perfect, but we were getting through. Clearly that wasn't the case. If these issues came up, we argued and worked to address them, apologized and moved forward. In the past, we wouldn't talk for days/weeks at a time. We both acknowledge this was wrong & was not the way we handled it anymore. It was these deep, ongoing issues I didn't realize were having such an impact.
It may be too little too late, but I'm at least willing to acknowledge & work on myself. I have become a little resentful because things weren't always the greatest with him either. I just didn't resort to walking out. I gave him the opportunity to work on himself, when I expressed an issue with his behavior. He walks away when I would like that same chance? Of course, not something I would say to him now, just feeling that.
I'm trying not to give up hope, but without any contact it's hard. I am reading the book, going to counseling and getting through life best as I can. If I have the opportunity to discuss, I know I need to validate and do 180s.
I would hate for it to come to an end, but his resentment is deep and not something you overcome overnight. He has to see my willingness and be open to it. If not, I know I have to protect myself. Just not a place I thought we'd be...
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
I agree with everything AS wrote except for the part about not being able to work on the sex life bit right now.
I think now is a great time for you to dig into why you are standoffish. I found Michelle's book on sex-starved marriages to be enormously helpful, and I read several other good ones as well. You might not be able to put what you learn into practice while separated, but you can change the mental piece.
I also encourage you to get an individual counselor to work on your control and communication issues.
One of the principles of DBing is that you can only change yourself, and that you changing makes it easier for your partner to change.
I have the book and am reading it. It is helping me get through and bringing me such needed direction.
Thank you!
Rose888,
My sex issues are obviously apart with my husband or without. Thank you for the advice on the book, which I'll be ordering today.
I scheduled a couseling appointment the very next week after H left. I'm determined to be consistent and work on myself. Here's to hoping, but being realistic. Thank you.
I'm not sure how to quote as you did, so bear with me.
At the bottom of the post you want to quote, hit the "quote" button. It'll open a reply window with all the text in it. Then what I do is select the text I want to quote, highlight it and hit the " (quotation mark) button at the top of the screen and it'll place quote tags around the text. Then I type my reply below that and keep repeating for each quote.
Just curious, what about my post made you think that?
It was in your comments, you said that your H said that you were controlling and then you gave a few examples such as you never letting him make any design decisions on the apartment and the house. Even though he says he's "done" you don't know that he is. And a big part of DB'ing is taking all of the things that our WAS tells us we were doing wrong and doing 180's on those things. So that's part of what we're here to do is help you see the things you need to do 180's on. We try to do it without upsetting or offending
I never complained about his friends. I had an issue with 1 when we first got together, which we resolved. Another who he rarely saw is a drug abuser and only called my husband for money. I didn't care for that, but had my husband wanted to be around him, I would have. The move was difficult. It added an extra 25 minutes to my commute making it an hour. I didn't complain incessantly about it but at the beginning it was frustrating. I got over it. I agreed to the move, so I had to get over it & shut up. I told him I needed time for it to feel like home, but it would come. It's just my process.
Well, I understand what you are saying but I think you are still downplaying and justifying when you should be saying "how can I do a 180 on this." You haven't posted a lot but I already see this repeating pattern of you talking about something you did wrong in the M and then proceeding to explain it away as not being a big thing. But, you may not have SAID you didn't like the move, that you didn't like his friends, that you hated someone asking him for money, but I'd be willing to bet that he FELT your anger, frustration and other negative emotions. You can't hide that stuff! So you don't think it was a big deal, but HE probably did. And when your spouse feels you're doing something wrong and you think it's nothing, then resentment builds.
Maybe when the behaviors continue, even if they're acknowledged, it conveys invalidation?
Definitely! Good observation.
I have my own issues with sex. I knew he wanted it, he knew I was standoffish. I didn't acknowledge how it made him feel when I put him off. For me though, his approach was lacking as well, but not something we ever discussed. For a woman, that's a hard one to bypass.
I am definitely not saying he is perfect and without fault. Personally I feel that ANY spouse that leaves the M is displaying a huge lack of character, but we're here to deal with the one thing in this we have control over- ourselves. So there's nothing you can do about HIS approach, only YOURS. After you finish DR, read the 5 Love Languages, it's a great book that addresses how to communicate in the love languages of others instead of our own love language. A lot of times when marriages fail it's because both spouses quit filling the other's emotional needs. One of the big points in the book is when that happens, we can't sit around waiting for our spouse to fill our emotional bank account. We have to fill THEIRS first. WE have to do the work. But when we do, the payoff is huge because when we meet THEIR emotional needs first, then they WANT to meet ours.
Another stinger, you write that our relationship seemed pretty terrible. In what I conveyed, what made it seem "pretty terrible"?
You've mentioned a nonexistent sex life, controlling behavior, criticizing (verbally or emotionally) of everything from his friends to the place you lived, poor communication, not listening/ understanding/ validating. If you asked me to sit down a make a list of the 10 most damaging marriage killing traits I would rank those as the top 5!
I was mistaken to believe all of the time we spent together, the fun we had, getting through the outside work & family difficulties together was evidence of a good relationship.
We ALL had good things in our marriages. But we had failures as well. Eventually the bad outweighs the good for the WAS and they want out.
It may be too little too late, but I'm at least willing to acknowledge & work on myself.
That's all any of us can do. Maybe it'll bring our spouse back into a better R, or maybe our next R will go that much smoother. But regardless, it's work we need to put in. And it never ends, DB'ing is forever.
I have become a little resentful because things weren't always the greatest with him either. I just didn't resort to walking out. I gave him the opportunity to work on himself, when I expressed an issue with his behavior. He walks away when I would like that same chance?
WAS's are far from perfect, and almost always they are just as guilty of failures as the LBS, if not more so. But we can't work on them, only ourselves. And believe me, we are ALL right there with you in thinking that simply walking out on the M is NOT FAIR and NOT valid conflict resolution!!!!
I'm trying not to give up hope, but without any contact it's hard. I am reading the book, going to counseling and getting through life best as I can.
I know it's hard, just hang in there! One foot in front of the other. Sometimes you have to focus on getting through the day and nothing more. And if that's too much then getting through the next hour. Healing will come, but it takes a while.
I'm not sure how to quote as you did, so bear with me.
At the bottom of the post you want to quote, hit the "quote" button. It'll open a reply window with all the text in it. Then what I do is select the text I want to quote, highlight it and hit the " (quotation mark) button at the top of the screen and it'll place quote tags around the text. Then I type my reply below that and keep repeating for each quote.
I think I've got the hang of this now.
Just curious, what about my post made you think that?
It was in your comments, you said that your H said that you were controlling and then you gave a few examples such as you never letting him make any design decisions on the apartment and the house. Even though he says he's "done" you don't know that he is. And a big part of DB'ing is taking all of the things that our WAS tells us we were doing wrong and doing 180's on those things. So that's part of what we're here to do is help you see the things you need to do 180's on. We try to do it without upsetting or offending
It is most definitely difficult to see what you're doing wrong all of the time. This will be a good opportunity, if given, to do some 180s. I know there were better ways of handling some of our issues. Looking back on the conflict and really trying to see how what I treated him, it affected him and validating his feelings should have been so simple to see.
I never complained about his friends. I had an issue with 1 when we first got together, which we resolved. Another who he rarely saw is a drug abuser and only called my husband for money. I didn't care for that, but had my husband wanted to be around him, I would have. The move was difficult. It added an extra 25 minutes to my commute making it an hour. I didn't complain incessantly about it but at the beginning it was frustrating. I got over it. I agreed to the move, so I had to get over it & shut up. I told him I needed time for it to feel like home, but it would come. It's just my process.
Well, I understand what you are saying but I think you are still downplaying and justifying when you should be saying "how can I do a 180 on this." You haven't posted a lot but I already see this repeating pattern of you talking about something you did wrong in the M and then proceeding to explain it away as not being a big thing. But, you may not have SAID you didn't like the move, that you didn't like his friends, that you hated someone asking him for money, but I'd be willing to bet that he FELT your anger, frustration and other negative emotions. You can't hide that stuff! So you don't think it was a big deal, but HE probably did. And when your spouse feels you're doing something wrong and you think it's nothing, then resentment builds.
Actually after reading one section of the book, I think I'm less downplaying his feelings and more just trying to get him to see my side (that I'm right). Change him? A lot of it was dumb, petty stuff. I look back on certain things and think, why didn't you just let it go? Some things are just not worth the battle. No matter the argument, I really and truly cared about his feelings in those moments. I was more intent on getting him to see things from my perspective.
Maybe when the behaviors continue, even if they're acknowledged, it conveys invalidation?
Definitely! Good observation.
I have my own issues with sex. I knew he wanted it, he knew I was standoffish. I didn't acknowledge how it made him feel when I put him off. For me though, his approach was lacking as well, but not something we ever discussed. For a woman, that's a hard one to bypass.
I am definitely not saying he is perfect and without fault. Personally I feel that ANY spouse that leaves the M is displaying a huge lack of character, but we're here to deal with the one thing in this we have control over- ourselves. So there's nothing you can do about HIS approach, only YOURS. After you finish DR, read the 5 Love Languages, it's a great book that addresses how to communicate in the love languages of others instead of our own love language. A lot of times when marriages fail it's because both spouses quit filling the other's emotional needs. One of the big points in the book is when that happens, we can't sit around waiting for our spouse to fill our emotional bank account. We have to fill THEIRS first. WE have to do the work. But when we do, the payoff is huge because when we meet THEIR emotional needs first, then they WANT to meet ours.
Another stinger, you write that our relationship seemed pretty terrible. In what I conveyed, what made it seem "pretty terrible"?
You've mentioned a nonexistent sex life, controlling behavior, criticizing (verbally or emotionally) of everything from his friends to the place you lived, poor communication, not listening/ understanding/ validating. If you asked me to sit down a make a list of the 10 most damaging marriage killing traits I would rank those as the top 5!
I was mistaken to believe all of the time we spent together, the fun we had, getting through the outside work & family difficulties together was evidence of a good relationship.
We ALL had good things in our marriages. But we had failures as well. Eventually the bad outweighs the good for the WAS and they want out.
It may be too little too late, but I'm at least willing to acknowledge & work on myself.
That's all any of us can do. Maybe it'll bring our spouse back into a better R, or maybe our next R will go that much smoother. But regardless, it's work we need to put in. And it never ends, DB'ing is forever.
I have become a little resentful because things weren't always the greatest with him either. I just didn't resort to walking out. I gave him the opportunity to work on himself, when I expressed an issue with his behavior. He walks away when I would like that same chance?
WAS's are far from perfect, and almost always they are just as guilty of failures as the LBS, if not more so. But we can't work on them, only ourselves. And believe me, we are ALL right there with you in thinking that simply walking out on the M is NOT FAIR and NOT valid conflict resolution!!!!
I'm trying not to give up hope, but without any contact it's hard. I am reading the book, going to counseling and getting through life best as I can.
I know it's hard, just hang in there! One foot in front of the other. Sometimes you have to focus on getting through the day and nothing more. And if that's too much then getting through the next hour. Healing will come, but it takes a while.
The last day or so I've felt a little better - sleeping more, eating more. The book has been so eye-opening and all just basic concepts. It makes me shake my head sometimes. Posting my personal business is so outside of my comfort zone and commenting on other's busiess as well. I lurk and definitely read, so I guess that's half the battle.
One thing has happened. He and my brother are friends and he texted to wish my brother happy birthday. He had previously ignored a text from my brother. I didn't ask my brother to respond, but he thanked him & asked if he wants to meet up and talk. My husband said yes. My son is having a hard time with this and my brother wants to talk to him about that. He hasn't reached out to my son at all, which is really heartbreaking for me.
I'm going to ask my brother not to specifically bring up our situation, what his plans are, etc. As much as I try to fight it though, it's giving me a little sliver of hope. I am really trying not to read too much into the fact he responded when initially he ignored him. I'm trying to work with what he said he wanted and continue to work on myself and whatever happens, happens. Trying.
Your insights have been invaluable. Honestly. When your spouse tells you how you are, it's easy to dismiss it as being one-sided. A stranger, based on words you yourself wrote?! That's a whole other level. I can deal with it, but now I just need to work on doing things differently.
Actually after reading one section of the book, I think I'm less downplaying his feelings and more just trying to get him to see my side (that I'm right).
Oh man can I ever relate. It's been a lifelong struggle for me to try not to do that. I still struggle with it with my GF, and it's really tough with her because she is the exact same way.
I look back on certain things and think, why didn't you just let it go? Some things are just not worth the battle.
Again, this is me!! So hard to stop yourself while "in the moment" though.
Posting my personal business is so outside of my comfort zone and commenting on other's busiess as well. I lurk and definitely read, so I guess that's half the battle.
Well that's the beauty of these forums, they are completely anonymous. We discourage using names here so that it can remain that way. It is a "safe place" for discussion of things you can't talk to friends and family about because it might get back to your spouse.
I didn't ask my brother to respond, but he thanked him & asked if he wants to meet up and talk. My husband said yes. My son is having a hard time with this and my brother wants to talk to him about that.
Well, first of all don't expect it to go well because your H is likely to tell your brother about how done he is, how there's no hope, etc. etc. That's what WAS's do. It doesn't mean there's no hope though!
I'm going to ask my brother not to specifically bring up our situation, what his plans are, etc.
Yes, good!
As much as I try to fight it though, it's giving me a little sliver of hope. I am really trying not to read too much into the fact he responded when initially he ignored him.
Do have hope, but don't have hope over this. It's too soon. He's likely just going to use this as an opportunity to "prep" everyone that the M is over. But that doesn't mean it IS over. He's following the WAS script.
Your insights have been invaluable. Honestly. When your spouse tells you how you are, it's easy to dismiss it as being one-sided. A stranger, based on words you yourself wrote?! That's a whole other level. I can deal with it, but now I just need to work on doing things differently.
You are an awesome woman, if you weren't you wouldn't have come here in the first place. So please, take this all as constructive criticism and not a statement about who you are as a person. It hurts to hear sometimes, but we take the comments and we make adjustments and we move forward as better people for it
Actually after reading one section of the book, I think I'm less downplaying his feelings and more just trying to get him to see my side (that I'm right).
Oh man can I ever relate. It's been a lifelong struggle for me to try not to do that. I still struggle with it with my GF, and it's really tough with her because she is the exact same way.
The struggle is real. I guess the least you can do is try, but that should definitely be appreciated by your significant other.
I look back on certain things and think, why didn't you just let it go? Some things are just not worth the battle.
Again, this is me!! So hard to stop yourself while "in the moment" though.
Before all of this happened, I was working on it and trying my best to phrase things in a more positive way. Less getting angry and more asking can you do this or that instead. Guess that still wasn't the right way. I guess it will always be something I have to be mindful of and work on stopping, especially for the small things that really don't matter.
Posting my personal business is so outside of my comfort zone and commenting on other's busiess as well. I lurk and definitely read, so I guess that's half the battle.
Well that's the beauty of these forums, they are completely anonymous. We discourage using names here so that it can remain that way. It is a "safe place" for discussion of things you can't talk to friends and family about because it might get back to your spouse.
I didn't ask my brother to respond, but he thanked him & asked if he wants to meet up and talk. My husband said yes. My son is having a hard time with this and my brother wants to talk to him about that.
Well, first of all don't expect it to go well because your H is likely to tell your brother about how done he is, how there's no hope, etc. etc. That's what WAS's do. It doesn't mean there's no hope though!
I'm going to ask my brother not to specifically bring up our situation, what his plans are, etc.
My brother was out of town and I haven't spoken to him in a few days. They were supposed to talk today, but I don't even know if that's going to happen.
As much as I try to fight it though, it's giving me a little sliver of hope. I am really trying not to read too much into the fact he responded when initially he ignored him.
Do have hope, but don't have hope over this. It's too soon. He's likely just going to use this as an opportunity to "prep" everyone that the M is over. But that doesn't mean it IS over. He's following the WAS script.
That makes sense. I wanted it to be a good sign, but deep down knew it wasn't a whole lot. It's been more than a week without any communication, but he just texted me. Funny, I was coming to the forums to do some reading when the text came through. Bam! Just like a mack truck, he puts me back to day one. My grandmother recently went through surgery, which he found out from his sister. He texted to wish her a speedy recovery and good luck when I move my son this weekend. He then writes, "good luck with your son's move" and can we talk next week (presumably about divorce, selling house). Like a slap in the face. As I said before, he's been the father-figure to my son and that's how he refers to him?! My son, again, is having a hard time with this, from feeling angry at how he's left me and angry/sad in that he's had no communication with him whatsover. As you said before, it is such a lack of character. Now with this latest, it continues to show that and more. I don't even know how to respond. My anger and hurt are through the roof right now. I was planning on texting him about the mortgage & didn't even do that. Since he hadn't reached out to me, I was just going to pay it this month & see where things stood for the next month. He's not even mentioned it, but now this dumb text? I'm so angry.
Is there an actual "playbook" of how the WAS behaves? I'd love a link.
Your insights have been invaluable. Honestly. When your spouse tells you how you are, it's easy to dismiss it as being one-sided. A stranger, based on words you yourself wrote?! That's a whole other level. I can deal with it, but now I just need to work on doing things differently.
You are an awesome woman, if you weren't you wouldn't have come here in the first place. So please, take this all as constructive criticism and not a statement about who you are as a person. It hurts to hear sometimes, but we take the comments and we make adjustments and we move forward as better people for it
After getting this text, I really needed these kind words. I swear I'm trying - even if just for myself. This treatment is really just trying my patience and fortitude. I know I'm not the only one experiencing these things and I'll get through this just like the rest. Breathe and don't respond is my mantra.
So I ended up calming myself down and responded to the text. I said thanks and that I could talk next week on my day off. I find this a waste of time because I'm not going to negotiate with him the terms of our divorce. I'm going to seek legal cousel and then see what's recommended. He keeps pressing me to discuss as if all of this will be wrapped up in a couple of months (sell house, divide assets/debt). I've resolved to hear him out & will fight like hell to take the high road. Any advice on how to proceed with this meeting, especially if it starts to get contentious. Some 180s (just in case)?
Part of me wants this over & done w/ as quickly as possible because I don't think he'll give us another shot. Things are obviously also really shaky financially & I just want to some stability again. We're just shy of a month & I know it's just begun...
Biggest 180 that occurs to me from your thread is to do the opposite of controlling...(you can let your control genie out with your L to look after your own needs, lol!)
So, I guess that would be listen, validate, don't interpret what he says, don't try to tell him what you think, lots of 'well, I need some time to think about that' and 'what's your suggestion about x'.... Tough though, so I'd keep the meeting REALLY short. Best guess is that he's doing it to 'get things sorted' (but will either have no clue or a ridiculous plan) and to scratch his venting itch.
You said wisely that you're not doing it to negotiate stuff...what's your purpose and objective for the meeting?
Is there an actual "playbook" of how the WAS behaves? I'd love a link.
DR is as close as you'll get. They all follow a loose script but the details are different for each sitch.
I find this a waste of time because I'm not going to negotiate with him the terms of our divorce. I'm going to seek legal cousel and then see what's recommended.
Great idea on consulting a L.
He keeps pressing me to discuss as if all of this will be wrapped up in a couple of months (sell house, divide assets/debt). I've resolved to hear him out & will fight like hell to take the high road. Any advice on how to proceed with this meeting, especially if it starts to get contentious. Some 180s (just in case)?
180's don't really apply when it comes to negotiating the D. Look out for your best interests. Don't let him steamroll you. If he says a bunch of stuff you disagree with then don't argue, just tell him the terms are not acceptable to you and that you'll both have to get L's involved to work it out and the meeting is over.
Things are obviously also really shaky financially & I just want to some stability again.
If you depend on him for assistance and he is not providing it, then talk to a L right away. You might have to file some kind of a support order, I honestly don't know how such things work but protecting yourself financially comes first.
I've resolved to hear him out & will fight like hell to take the high road. Any advice on how to proceed with this meeting, especially if it starts to get contentious.
Just like you said, don't negotiate. That comes later. Just say you have to consult your lawyer about your rights.
But you need to listen to him, acknowledge and validate the crap out of his feelings. Don't bring up saving the marriage. That's pursuing, and it won't be helpful at this time. But if he brings it up, surprise him with the depth of your understanding and willingness to accept responsibility for your part in the deterioration of your marriage. DO NOT CRITICIZE HIM OR MENTION HIS PART. He has to want to get back together before this comes up, or you will just chase him further away.
Whatever he says, DO NOT ARGUE. From his point of view, he's right, and right now, your point of view doesn't matter. You want to make every interaction with you as pleasant as possible, but that doesn't mean you have to let him walk all over you.
Listen and validate. These might be the 180s you are looking for.
Good luck
Treasur,
What he's conveyed to me about being controlling, it had to do with our house renovations. That's difficult to show a reversal when we're not even discussing any of that. I'm sure there are other instances, but again petty small things that I should have let go.Since he's left, I'm moving forward with some basics that need to be completed if/when we sell the house. The only thing I thought about was getting him to weigh in on that. I would feel him out first to see if I should even broach the subject. I guess just listening and validating is what I can do overall.
Yes, I was planning on keeping it to maybe 30 minutes. If necessary even telling him I have to be somewhere. I will only stick to the D, selling the house. If he brings up our R, what do I do with that? Do I avoid the topic?
Since yesterday, my brother decided not to call him after I told him about the text. He did, however, talk to my son about it and my son ended up asking to talk and he responded quickly. I was told that last week my son had driven by my FIL's house (where he's staying) but decided against stopping in because he was too mad. Since that point he's calmed down, but hadn't told me he did this, so yesterday I asked him. He said he was going to tell me at some point this week. He said he's confused because we're giving him 2 different stories. I owned up to controlling & some other issues he brought up. Where it differs is the effort put in. He has in his head we've tried in the
past, but that I never made any changes. He made it seem as if we had gone to continuous therapy sessions & it just didn't work. We went to 3, they changed our therapist after the 1st & I didn't too much care for the 2nd. They were scheduling us 4-6 weeks apart and I was frustrated. I'll speak for myself, things were "fine" and I became complacent. Maybe he feels my lack of effort was from not continuing on. I did find another therapist months later, went alone & paid out of pocket so I could go more frequently and went for about 6 months. That was about 6 years ago. I just didn't realize he was at this point and my behaviours were affecting him so much. I would like the opportunity to work on myself & make positive changes. My son said he only spoke about the D and doesn't seem like he wants to try.
Long answer regarding meeting goal, is really just to hear him out. He's persisted on meeting so we could work this out amicably. I will hear his suggestions and say I'll have to think about that & will get back to you. One odd thing, I was concerned he wasn't going to pay the mortgage, but I looked online & he did. He told my son I could live in the house & he'd pay it for as long as I needed. That really confused me. Maybe he's thinking w/ a clearer head now (financially speaking)? We only bought it 4 months ago. Just feels like staying as long as I need to will prolong the inevitable if he's not interested in reconciling. Thoughts?
Our agreement was he pays the mortgage & I pay the other household bills (gas, light, etc.). I said in an earlier response to Treasur, he has in fact paid the mortgage - thankfully. He told my son he'll pay as long as I need him to. I will have to get clarification on what that means exactly. I think as long as it doesn't get contentious, he's not going steamroll me. If I stay calm, I hope that he will too. I will try my hardest to maintain that.
My kid is great and just told my H to do right by his mom. He said he would. I think if nothing else, he'll at least try to maintain civilty because of that.
Jim1234,
Thank you for this! It's the first time I will be seeing & actually speaking to him in about a month, so I wasn't sure how I should respond if he brought up anything outside of the D.
Yesterday's mantra was breathe & don't respond (to text). Today's and up until we meet will be acknowledge and validate the crap out of his feelings.
Yes, these are exactly the 180s I'm looking for. If given the opportunity, it would be great start & he'll definitely be surprised.
Thanks again & here's to hoping!
I will only stick to the D, selling the house. If he brings up our R, what do I do with that? Do I avoid the topic?
It's OK to talk about it if he brings it up. The rule of thumb is not to initiate any R talks, but if he brings it up then it's fair game. Regarding WHAT to say to him, I'm sure at this point he's completely focused on D, so just say something like "this is not what I want but I understand that you do, and I will respect that and support you in your decision." This is what we call "opening the cage door". WAS's often feel trapped, but if we can open that door and show them that we're not standing in their way then they feel there is no pressure anymore and no need to push the D through quickly (or in many cases, push it through at all).
Since yesterday, my brother decided not to call him after I told him about the text.
Good. He's likely to see any talks from anyone as pressure.
He has in his head we've tried in the
past, but that I never made any changes. He made it seem as if we had gone to continuous therapy sessions & it just didn't work.
WAS's all rewrite history. It's part of this. Just tell your son you are there for him no matter what and will support him. Do not try to make your H out to be the bad guy. Your S will figure that out for himself (sounds like he already has).
My son said he only spoke about the D and doesn't seem like he wants to try.
Yes, all part of the script. It'll be that way for a long time.
I will hear his suggestions and say I'll have to think about that & will get back to you.
Good approach.
One odd thing, I was concerned he wasn't going to pay the mortgage, but I looked online & he did.
Great! Hopefully he will continue to do so, but keep in mind he may be doing that to appease you to get you to agree to ridiculous D terms. Have your guard up.
UPDATE: H had texted me last week to see if we could meet presumably to discuss D. Previously had told him I wanted to get through my son's move before focusing on D, so I offered to meet up today on my day off. He said sure. Well, he never followed up with me to meet. I am really confused by this.
My son moving and H leaving has left me with a huge sense of loss. I was extremely emotional and anxious in the days leading up to the move. My brother came to help and on our ride back we talked about my situation. He was aware that H had left before in 2011, but I revealed another situation involving what H told me was just inappropriate emailing w/ a female online. He and my brother are/were friends, but obviously he's seeing some things in H that he never thought were possible coming from him. Getting his perspective left me feeling actually pretty good. I don't know if my H is having an A, but I'm not ruling it out, just also not focusing until I have proof. I also can't see another reason why he would cut all ties with me other than the occasional text. I haven't actually seen or spoken to him in almost a month. If he comes by the house, he only does so when I'm not there. He has taken no interest in the house and its upkeep (other than mortgage, for now) - all of that rests on my shoulders.
He's not around to see 180s or me GAL, so I don't know where this is going. If I continue to just wait to hear from him, how long is reasonable? He filed on 7/31 and possibly tried serving me once, but nothing since then. It may have been he was being nice and letting me deal with the move, but today's lack of response leaves me wondering.
My therapist knew I we were supposed to speak and he said it was appropriate for me to express to H how his actions have left me feeling. Not getting into the good/bad of the relationship or behaviors, just where I am at. Any thoughts on that?
ANOTHER UPDATE: H and I met up yesterday. He texted in the morning asking to meet and said he had been waiting to hear from me since I had been out of town. Not happy with this since this convo will only be about D & I feel like if this is what he wants to discuss, he needs to follow up.
Anyway, we met. He started by asking how my son's move went. Said it was fine but didn't offer much else. He started on in that he thinks we need to sell the house. I said I wanted to discuss somethings as well & it was't about the D. I stuck to how I felt, but the minute I said I was confused, he was incredulous that I'd be confused. I took responsibility for my issues & acknowledging the hurt. He brought up his revisionist history about our prior therapy, which was a total of one marriage counseling session. Then he said I know it takes two and I cop to 50% of the issues, but when I say I'm miserable, what more is there to say. We went through a whole host of issues, including our lack of sex life. We were not arguing but he made it clear he was done and doesn't see any need to try. He said he feels like he's had enough. He said you don't think we've tried and I said no. He said fine then I'll take responsibility for that, that will my blame. I told him I wasn't blaming, I just felt like our marriage deteriorated and needed effort to repair. I also said I feel like you don't love me anymore and that's why you are unwilling to try. He said all that's happened, how do you continue? I said it's clear you don't love me. And he said, ok, ok. It was him admitting, yup, I don't love you and that's why I don't want to try anymore.
I let him discuss what he thought about the house/our assets. I told him I needed to still speak to a lawyer before I could say what I wanted. He's willing to still pay for the mortgage for the time-being. He hasn't bothered to look into anything other than just the basic filing. We might face penalties because we're selling after we've only owned it for 4 months. After renovations, if we make a profit are we subject to capital gains? So many things that he hasn't considered and I told him it's not fair for me to absorb those expenses. It sounds like he's gotten some advice, but I'm not sure from whom. He said if we go to court, the money is gone. He wants to be fair and give me either half or all of the profit from the house. I said what about our debts - I took out credit for appliances. I said and what about the pension. I said I don't know if I'm eligible for your pension and the minute I said that, he was mad. He had been very calm until this point, almost as if he had been coached to be calm so I would be agreeable. Again, the minute I said pension, he was angry. He is willing to give me money from the house but not his pension. I just said I need to talk to an attorney.
Things are bleak. I don't have any hope not hearing that he loves me. He didn't say it outright, but said after all of this, why should he? I know I violated all sorts of DBing rules, but this was the first time I have spoken to him in over a month. I feel lost and not sure where to go from here.
You do need to talk to a L. It doesn't commit you to action but you need information. You don't have to do everything right now, or decide, or figure it all out, but you need info.
I'm sorry. I know this is grim but right now, for whatever reason, this is not your H and you can't trust him to treat your needs with as much respect as his own.
You can't control what he thinks, feels or does but you need to look after yourself and your son. I'm sorry that this is where you are and we all know how painful it is. But you must put your needs first.
Treasur,
I hear you. It is painfully obvious that he has tunnel vision for this divorce. I am working on the lawyer now and hope to have a meeting within the next week.
Today I had an early morning IC appointment. I always look forward to these, my therapist has been another outlet, but is really focused on me taking care of myself and only reacting to what I have control over. I went over our meeting and told him how I felt there was little hope. He has also encouraged me to see a L. As we're ending the session, I hear a couple of text coming through on my phone. I check my phone when I leave at it's my STBX. He cheerily wishes me a good morning and proceeds to tell me he's asked our mortgage broker about penalties for selling early. Said we won't have any after 6 months. He'd like to "give" me $70k & he'll take over the mortgage. We agreed to sell, so I'm not sure if he's now saying he wants the house. Either way, I want to sell it. He thinks he's throwing me a bone and isn't even bringing up his pension. I can already see this is going to get ugly. That's not my intention, but I also feel like if I'm entitled to some of his pension, then why shouldn't I get it?
I told him once I spoke to a L, I would let him know. I also asked him not to text me before I go to or at work because it just ruins my day. I'm frustrated he is just disregarding that and won't contact me for anything else other than the D. If that's the case, just leave me alone.
Frustrated, heartbroken, angry and tired.
I'm pretty sure you are entitled to 1/2 the appreciation of his pension over the time you were married. I expect he's thinking "if I give her $70K for the house, she'll be happy with that and not push for the pension." I think he has a rude awakening coming when he finds out just how much he's going to owe you in equitable distribution.
Definitively see a lawyer.
I believe I am entitled to 1/2 as well. He doesn't want me to take any portion of the pension which is why he's trying to offer the $70k he feels is fair. Again, he's pulling these numbers out of the air. He has no clue what our house is now worth after renovations. I see him thinking I am making this ugly because I'm trying to get what the law allows. After I pay back my 401k loan which we used for the renovations, that $70k will be cut down severely and this is all he thinks I should get. I've been with him for more than half of his time at his current employer. Why shouldn't I be entitled to his pension?
I will be calling a lawyer tomorrow.
I think your L will explain that 'made up numbers in your H's head' are NOT the same as the law...much as your H may disagree!
Hi LAJar,
Just read your thread; ugh, this sounds really, really hard. I am sorry to read all this. It must be terribly painful! He is moving at lightening speed, has essentially abandoned his step-son, and is now pressuring you to take what money he offers you. Yikes, this guy is a bit off his rocker, isn't he! I am glad the other posters are here and imparting their wisdom. It is really hard to be in your sitch because he is so out of line, however he holds (or thinks he does) all the power and so you can only look at and change your part in this. I say this because while we can focus all day on you (as that is all you can do), clearly this guy has some big issues.
I don't have a ton of advice because I am not sure there is much you can do right now. He is on the war path, and so all you can do is step back and protect yourself. I would not talk to him about D anymore or agree to any of his BS propositions. You are no dummy. Even if it feels to go against DB rules, protecting yourself and your finances always comes first. It is okay to tell him firmly "H, I am not willing to discuss this right now." You honestly don't owe him more explanation than that. You have already told him that you don't want D and are willing to work on the M, so he now knows, and there is no reason to repeat it--anything more will be perceived as pursuing and will serve to only push him away. As AS stated, when you "open the cage door" and they realize you won't stand in their way, sometimes they feel safe and back down a bit.
I am glad you are seeing an IC that you like. You need support right now! Please continue to take time for you, lean on your trusted family and friends, and work on those 180 and GAL. Sadly, these sitches can take a long, long time. Your H can try and expedite this and throw tantrums, but he is not above the law. Sounds like he has a pattern of bottling up anger, lashing out, and running, and so know that those patterns in him will repeat themselves until he is willing to do the work and take a long hard look at himself. That is not your circus--and not your monkeys--and you just do your best to push him to the side right now and keep your focus on you.
I think continuing to go dark and avoid future meetings is your best bet right now. Let him initiate all communication. And when he does, I think you should only give him a couple minutes of your time--listen, validate, and exit. He is not safe for you emotionally right now and appears to be a ticking time bomb or trying to manipulate you to get his way. I also think it is okay for him to worry you are moving right along without him, I wouldn't want him to think he can treat you this way and then just walk back into your life.
It is hard to switch the power dynamic when someone walks out on you, but it can be done! Hold your head up high, know your worth, and you keep treating yourself (and allow friends/family to) the way you deserve! This guy is acting like a big jerk and so I am glad you are not pining over him and I wouldn't want him to think that either.
Blu
yes, please do talk to a lawyer. You can always weigh whether you want to ask for everything that you are owed versus "playing nice" but especially since he lost his cool it comes across to me as someone who thought he could trick you into accepting something that SOUNDS nice but is only a fraction of what you are owed.
This [censored]. I am sorry.
I believe I am entitled to 1/2 as well. He doesn't want me to take any portion of the pension which is why he's trying to offer the $70k he feels is fair.
This is the complicated, nasty side of D, splitting up the assets. Typically both parties want to leave the M financially "whole" but neither do. My W and I both had 401K investments and they were roughly the same, so when we split we agreed to each keep our own and keep that out of the D settlement.
Again, he's pulling these numbers out of the air. He has no clue what our house is now worth after renovations.
Determining the house value is actually the easiest part of D. All you need to do (and this is required by most states) is hire an independent 3rd party to assess the value of the home. They will go through the house outside and in and will also review recent area sales and provide a detailed assessment of the value. Once that value is set, it becomes part of the D decree.
I see him thinking I am making this ugly because I'm trying to get what the law allows.
No one comes out of a D happy. You've got to try and be clinical about this, he's going to get mad but that's tough sh**. Set aside your DB'ing for now, this is all about protecting yourself.
After I pay back my 401k loan which we used for the renovations, that $70k will be cut down severely and this is all he thinks I should get.
Don't pay anything back until you talk to your L. If you pay it back you may not be able to get your H to pay half that debt.
I've been with him for more than half of his time at his current employer. Why shouldn't I be entitled to his pension?
Because he doesn't want to give it to you. Period. That's the only reason. What he wants and what the law allows are two completely different matters though!
Treasur, I agree, but that's where I think things will start to go south. He's convinced this is "fair" and when I possibly don't agree, he's just going to see it as me being vindictive because he doesn't want the marriage. If I'm concerned he'd see it this way, clearly I don't want him to believe that. Who knows, maybe it is fair (doubt it), but you can't offer numbers based on not much fact.
Hi LAJar,
Just read your thread; ugh, this sounds really, really hard. I am sorry to read all this. It must be terribly painful! He is moving at lightening speed, has essentially abandoned his step-son, and is now pressuring you to take what money he offers you. Yikes, this guy is a bit off his rocker, isn't he! I am glad the other posters are here and imparting their wisdom. It is really hard to be in your sitch because he is so out of line, however he holds (or thinks he does) all the power and so you can only look at and change your part in this. I say this because while we can focus all day on you (as that is all you can do), clearly this guy has some big issues.
BluWave,
Thank you for your response. This forum has been truly a lifesaver.
Yes, unfortunately it feels like this is all moving too fast. He is out of line but just doesn't see it that way. He thinks he's being amicable and fair that he would offer a generous number, but based on what? Because it's only what he believes, the minute I go outside of that, he'll see it as vindictive because he no longer wants the marriage. I don't want him to think that, so that should prove I'm not being spiteful. I simply feel that he's cutting off this marriage that would have given me financial security, among other things, so why am I now not entitled to whatever is legal?
When this all happened, I couldn't shake the feeling that this was something much more like depression. I told him I was worried about him with the amount of rage he expressed. As I've begun to read up more on depression in men, much of it sounds so familiar, from again the rage, blame, sudden abandonment, all while trying to stop the unhappiness I have caused him. At this point, I would never even suggest depression to him. If that was the case, nothing I say will snap him out of this. If it isn't, I still have no control over his decisions. All I can do is control my response to him/his actions.
I don't have a ton of advice because I am not sure there is much you can do right now. He is on the war path, and so all you can do is step back and protect yourself.
I would not talk to him about D anymore or agree to any of his BS propositions. You are no dummy. Even if it feels to go against DB rules, protecting yourself and your finances always comes first.
He doesn't talk, he sends text, which is more infuriating. Things get lost in translation and I refuse to communicate like that about such important decisions. Although, I know even phone calls now are not a good idea. I need to detach, because as many decent days as I have, I have double the bad days. Any texts he sends are just about D & that upsets me, so I need to stop it.
It is okay to tell him firmly "H, I am not willing to discuss this right now." You honestly don't owe him more explanation than that. You have already told him that you don't want D and are willing to work on the M, so he now knows, and there is no reason to repeat it--anything more will be perceived as pursuing and will serve to only push him away.
As AS stated, when you "open the cage door" and they realize you won't stand in their way, sometimes they feel safe and back down a bit.
I think once I follow through with the attorney, he will see I am not stopping him. I'm not going to help, but I'm not stopping it and I will make decisions based on what he does. I don't know if that makes sense or is realistic, but I don't agree with the D.
I am glad you are seeing an IC that you like. You need support right now! Please continue to take time for you, lean on your trusted family and friends, and work on those 180 and GAL.
IC has helped. As I am intensely private, if I have begun to let others in my close circle know, it's because I know this is real. In the past, I told only my sister and kept everything a secret with the hope he'd return (he did). This time with the filing and subsequent rejection of MC, I know he's moving forward. My friends have stepped up in a big way & have reached out just to even check up on me. I'm slowly working on other GAL, things that are more for me and my self-improvement, but that's a slower process. Yes, I'm still young (43) but it's daunting to think about starting all over again - living alone, finding an apt. (no more house), and dating. He was my social life, as miserable as he claims he was, we spent all of our time together. We periodically went out separately, but the majority of our time was spent together and that's hard to no longer have that.
Sadly, these sitches can take a long, long time. Your H can try and expedite this and throw tantrums, but he is not above the law.
Sounds like he has a pattern of bottling up anger, lashing out, and running, and so know that those patterns in him will repeat themselves until he is willing to do the work and take a long hard look at himself.
Yes, this is exactly him with relationships - both ours and family. Last year not speaking to his father for 4-5 months because he thought he was creating boundaries, really wasn't a good idea. He spoke to his IC about this, but I don't think it was healthy because his sessions were not consistent and he wasn't truly working through those feelings. He said he was, but that wasn't the
case. He finally copped to not seeing his IC for 4 months (I still think it's longer) and who knows for how long before that. If he was, why wasn't he telling the IC his problems with me and wouldn't she have suggested MC or discussing issues with me? I'm rambling, but that doesn't matter now.
That is not your circus--and not your monkeys--and you just do your best to push him to the side right now and keep your focus on you.
I think continuing to go dark and avoid future meetings is your best bet right now. Let him initiate all communication. And when he does, I think you should only give him a couple minutes of your time--listen, validate, and exit. He is not safe for you emotionally right now and appears to be a ticking time bomb or trying to manipulate you to get his way. I also think it is okay for him to worry you are moving right along without him, I wouldn't want him to think he can treat you this way and then just walk back into your life.
Going dark - that's my plan. I feel like once I speak to a L, I'll have that guidance on how/what to communicate. He's done much more damage this time around, so if there was any interest to reconcile, it would come with a lot of IC and MC... if I could even get over this and trust him again.
It is hard to switch the power dynamic when someone walks out on you, but it can be done! Hold your head up high, know your worth, and you keep treating yourself (and allow friends/family to) the way you deserve! This guy is acting like a big jerk and so I am glad you are not pining over him and I wouldn't want him to think that either.
I'm trying. In my head, I know I will get through this. I've gotten through other bad relationships when I though all hope was gone (& found him actually), so I know I can do it again. Truth be told, I am pining over him at times, he just doesn't see it and I won't let him. I asked him to table, not pull the D, for a couple of months and see if we could work on things. He said, no the D is happening. Got my answer loud and clear and as you said, he knows where I stand and can reach out to me if he ever wanted to work on things. As for now, I know that's not happening and I am working to move on.
Again, thank you for your thoughtful comments. In these situations, you can't have too many ears to vent to, especially those with experience. It's a much different perspective.
Blu
Treasur, I agree, but that's where I think things will start to go south. He's convinced this is "fair" and when I possibly don't agree, he's just going to see it as me being vindictive because he doesn't want the marriage. If I'm concerned he'd see it this way, clearly I don't want him to believe that. Who knows, maybe it is fair (doubt it), but you can't offer numbers based on not much fact.
He may well take them that way, LAJar, but your first job now is to stop caring about his opinion of you. He will think and feel what he does, regardless of any effort you make to influence him. As long as YOU know you are not being vindictive or petty, that's all that matters.
He has created this situation; his choice. You need to treat it as business (which is hard, I know) but let your L guide you. Right now, it is possible that your H's mindset is so out of whack that you could offer him the shirt off your back and he'd complain.
I believe I am entitled to 1/2 as well. He doesn't want me to take any portion of the pension which is why he's trying to offer the $70k he feels is fair.
This is the complicated, nasty side of D, splitting up the assets. Typically both parties want to leave the M financially "whole" but neither do. My W and I both had 401K investments and they were roughly the same, so when we split we agreed to each keep our own and keep that out of the D settlement.
I am very quickly realizing this. I know neither of us are going to leave whole. My harsh reality is that I've just bought this house and was supposed to be a happy, exciting time. That has all been cut down and I will be back to an apartment & expenses on one income.
Again, he's pulling these numbers out of the air. He has no clue what our house is now worth after renovations.
Determining the house value is actually the easiest part of D. All you need to do (and this is required by most states) is hire an independent 3rd party to assess the value of the home. They will go through the house outside and in and will also review recent area sales and provide a detailed assessment of the value. Once that value is set, it becomes part of the D decree.
I figured as much. However, with all of his great plans we still have work left to complete. I'm taking care of hiring and managing contractors to complete some final projects, so the house is presentable when the time comes to sell. As he's said I'm controlling, sometimes I had to be because things wouldn't get done. This isn't my comfort zone really, but it has been out of survival from years prior to him when I was a single parent. I see now I needed to let go of some that because it didn't always work for him.
I see him thinking I am making this ugly because I'm trying to get what the law allows.
No one comes out of a D happy. You've got to try and be clinical about this, he's going to get mad but that's tough sh**. Set aside your DB'ing for now, this is all about protecting yourself.
In all honesty, I know the bottom line is that I need protect myself and will make decisions based on that. If I'm being really honest with myself, a small part of me fears making him so mad that the $ would be a final block for him to ever try to reconcile. It's a very small part because he's shown me nothing to indicate there's any interest in that.
After I pay back my 401k loan which we used for the renovations, that $70k will be cut down severely and this is all he thinks I should get.
Don't pay anything back until you talk to your L. If you pay it back you may not be able to get your H to pay half that debt.
I'm not going to. Anything I pay back will be after all of this is done.
I've been with him for more than half of his time at his current employer. Why shouldn't I be entitled to his pension?
Because he doesn't want to give it to you. Period. That's the only reason. What he wants and what the law allows are two completely different matters though!
Yup. That's the sad, honest truth.
Update: Not much has happened since I last posted, until today. I have been completing some final projects on the house so it's presentable when we begin to sell. H came by the house (he's not been by in over a week) and saw the workers, so he called me at work. He asked what they were doing there and why had I not told him about this? I did and it's all in our text messages. I told him that he hasn't bothered to come by or call me for anything other than D, so I didn't think he cared to be updated on renovations. In some part of the convo (and in anger), I threw out my suspicions that he was now seeing someone. It got ugly from there and said if I wasn't taking care of wifely duties, she would. Hurtful, but suspicions confirmed and I hung up. I went to a private room to call back and he wouldn't answer but then began to text. Again, more hurtful things being thrown out & him saying I'm a victim & take no responsibility. I then stopped and just texted that he'll get the divorce. I'm lashing out because I'm hurt, but I will move on. I married forever or at least with the intent to put in the effort to try if there were issues could resolve. I take responsibility for my faults. I am working on myself, will make changes and continue to do so even without him. I acknowledged how our lack of SL made him feel like I didn't want him and was hurtful. I get it and am sorry. END OF TEXT. He responded he was sorry too and that's it.
While I'm at work, my dad has been going over to check on the progress of the projects. He went by the house and the poor workers said he came in like a bat outta hell. Asked who they are and what they were doing there (as if that wasn't obvious). They aren't fluent in English, so I guess we wasn't able to get it across that he wanted them to go. What I don't understand is that he left and only comes by when I'm gone. No phone calls to me other than giving D $ numbers. Why does he care what I'm doing with the house. These were all things we were plannning on doing anyway. He's moved on, just leave me alone & let me take care of this. Again, he used this as a way to point out my controlling nature. Is it controlling or am I just trying to be practical and take care of our investment? I guess that's why we're not together - two very different views of the same situation. I can't continue to let him just dump on me. I know that's not DB'ing, but if all is lost, does it really matter? It was clear to me the last time we spoke.
I'm a little numb as to the confirmation of another person. I suspected it when he left and removed his cell from the family plan, put extra security on the cell (they sent a conf letter to the house). His social media was limited to one site that is open, but one month prior got FB & Instagram - said he hated it prior. He believes it's not cheating because he's gone (been less than 2 months) and said it's been over for a long time (we closed on this house in April). But in all honesty, when your husband of almost 10 years leaves and there's absolutely no contact with you, what else could it be that would keep him away? I'm not saying he was so happy with me at that moment that he'd be itching to run back, but not even a flicker of interest. Greener grass will do that.
With that being said, he continues to offer $ amounts based on nothing. He's going to have a rude awakening when it comes time to discuss real numbers. I am going for a consultation with a lawyer on Friday and am looking to set up another.
Since my previous post, I feel like H is now on to being just completely vindictive. I don't know why I do this to myself, other than to continue to rip the proverbial band-aid off, but I looked at his social media page. He had taken a picture of him and his new female out on a "date". Yup, talk about a stab to the heart. I happened to look at it before I went to bed and there went my sleep.
It makes sense now why he's stayed away and is so ready to end everything in divorce. I don't necessarily think he was having a PA before he left. I believe with the new social media pages, there may have been some flirting going on. I think that opened the door to him feeling good about himself, a look into what could be without me. Once he left, it was full steam ahead. He seems to not consider this cheating since he's let me know he wants a divorce. He has been gone less than 2 months and I'm an emotional wreck, so I personally consider this cheating.
I'm sad, make no mistake, but I take some solace in the small petty things. Not that any of this matters, but helps the bruised ego. Does she know he was home less than 2 months ago? I'm sure he told her it's been a long time coming and he was miserable. What type of person would be happy to start a relationship this way? I would run the other way, but that's me.
This is a sad reality to a 14 year relationship. I am still working on things and trying to keep myself occupied. None of it particularly exciting - out for dinner, long phone calls, shopping. I am looking into some trainings for a potential new job opportunity, which I am somewhat excited about. If successful, I think it has the potential to give me more financial freedom once single and open new doors for socializing. Right now I'm a bit limited in that I only have one single girlfriend.
All of this is tough, but I think I needed this confirmation, because prior to this it was all assumptions spinning in my head. Until next time...
One last thought. I ended up blocking my H's number from my phone. I have asked him not to call me before work or at work - it really just ruins my day because the calls are never pleasant. I can't stop him from calling my office phone, but I can stop his calls to my cell. If he needs to contact me, he can always email. These calls aren't productive and really just consist of him asking what I'd like from the divorce, then me getting upset. I'd rather not. I told my dad and brother and they both thought that would make him really mad. I don't see why I should care, but I'm not trying to antagonize. Thoughts?
LA
so sorry you are here. Just a quick request and I'll be back to read your whole thread.
Can you fill in the signature block (on your profile) so that we can get a recap of your marriage's length, whether you have kids and how old they are and your h's age (I recall you are 43).
And the "main" issues can be summarized by the "Bomb date" and any big fat reasons (or what he claims they are). It helps A LOT b/c some of us post on several DBers threads and it's very easy to forget which marriage is which.
Thanks.
And btw, depending on the length of the m, kids, the issues, our advice will vary.
Did you say you are reading the DR book? If so, great.
And hiring a DB coach is a very good idea.
I found mine to be exactly what I needed then.
And protecting yourself financially IS DBing. It's self care, and without that it's hard to have respect from a spouse.
And spousal respect is part of every healthy m.
Don't give up and keep posting. See about hiring a coach. If you paid out of pocket before, then a 3 session package is well worth it, imo.
((( )))
One last thought. I ended up blocking my H's number from my phone. I have asked him not to call me before work or at work - it really just ruins my day because the calls are never pleasant.
what is his response to ^^^this? Do you answer the emails sooner? How is that different? I'm asking. If you are "caught" in a conversation, let him know that you are "still processing this and will certainly give it some thought" and keep repeating that if he persists. It's not a weird angry response, assuming your tone is civil.
Not sure if you are a spiritual person but if you are, try this exercise so that you can lessen the pain you are in AND more calmly respond to him.
When you are alone, turn it over to the Universe or God or whatever term you are comfortable with.
Think out the words & then say them - "God, I turn my pain & anger over to you."
Say it out loud and hear yourself say it. I used to do this when I expected h to call me or the kids. I'd do it in the shower so no one thought I was losing my head.
I would say it 50 times and when you think it, say it and hear yourself saying it, It sinks in. I calmed down enough to cope with a short conversation with h.
That ^^^was a change for me. And having civil conversations rather than arguments is simply more pleasant and clearer. You can later, build on that. This change in YOUR response will do more to show change in you, than any words you might have wanted to say.
Also, the more you challenge your h's choices, the more you force him to defend them them. This tends to cement his decisions.
Any arguments in favor of staying married - are going to be wasted on him at this time.
And they are usually counter productive, (hurts the cause) rather than just ineffective.
I can't stop him from calling my office phone, but I can stop his calls to my cell. If he needs to contact me, he can always email.
These calls aren't productive and really just consist of him asking what I'd like from the divorce, then me getting upset. I'd rather not.
IF you agree to answer the emails within a reasonable amount of time, then treasure him that you are not ignoring his messages BUT that his calls at work are "distracting".
Don't point out your pain to him.
Guilting him will backfire and frankly, it's not going to attract him back. Most men are uncomfortable when their wives cry, and they tend to flee faster.
Again, refer him to your need to take some time to process this, as it's a very important decision for both of you. And if you see a L, ask them about disclosing things. One thing I've realized is that treating my L as if she's my T, is expensive and not helpful. Talk emotions to the therapist and the law/legal strategy with your L.
PLEASE get as much information as you can asap about where you both bank, get some pictures of his pension and info re the 401k, any IRAs, cars & collections, savings, personal property value,) what YOU contributed to the renovations and such.
This is the most important financial transaction of your life. Be informed. See a L and realize that knowledge is power. His anger is not relevant to protecting your life and future security. Besides, when the dust settles the tempers will lessen.
Better to be financially secure and risk a bit of awkwardness at future events, than being ripped off and resentful the rest of your life.
what is your goal? To protect yourself? Okay. There is nothing vindictive there. Watch the tone you use with him. My DB coach used to say to "act as if the sedative you did not actually take, is kicking in."
There is power in the economy of words. Don't waste your breath. Calm interactions and you ending them first b/c you are busy GAL and being upbeat, will model the changes you want to make.
I told my dad and brother and they both thought that would make him really mad. I don't see why I should care, but I'm not trying to antagonize. Thoughts?
See above. You will never regret behaving in a strong & dignified way.
Hang in there. It gets better!
if things deteriorate in the conversations, marital revisions, blame assignments, etc
If he says something with validity about a mistake you made
you can say "H, I'm sorry I hurt you. If I had it all to do over again, there are lots of things I'd do differently".
If he says something you really STRONGLY disagree with or do not recall it at all, you can say
"h, wow I don't recall it that way but I'm sorry it hurt you. I'm sure If I had it all to do again, I'd do that differently."
these are not doormat statements but they show your willingness to change.
make sense?
One last thought. I ended up blocking my H's number from my phone. I have asked him not to call me before work or at work - it really just ruins my day because the calls are never pleasant.
what is his response to ^^^this?
Do you answer the emails sooner? How is that different? I'm asking. If you are "caught" in a conversation, let him know that you are "still processing this and will certainly give it some thought" and keep repeating that if he persists. It's not a weird angry response, assuming your tone is civil.
Not sure if you are a spiritual person but if you are, try this exercise so that you can lessen the pain you are in AND more calmly respond to him.
When you are alone, turn it over to the Universe or God or whatever term you are comfortable with.
Think out the words & then say them - "God, I turn my pain & anger over to you."
Say it out loud and hear yourself say it. I used to do this when I expected h to call me or the kids. I'd do it in the shower so no one thought I was losing my head.
I would say it 50 times and when you think it, say it and hear yourself saying it, It sinks in. I calmed down enough to cope with a short conversation with h.
That ^^^was a change for me. And having civil conversations rather than arguments is simply more pleasant and clearer. You can later, build on that. This change in YOUR response will do more to show change in you, than any words you might have wanted to say.
Also, the more you challenge your h's choices, the more you force him to defend them them. This tends to cement his decisions.
Any arguments in favor of staying married - are going to be wasted on him at this time.
And they are usually counter productive, (hurts the cause) rather than just ineffective.
I can't stop him from calling my office phone, but I can stop his calls to my cell. If he needs to contact me, he can always email.
These calls aren't productive and really just consist of him asking what I'd like from the divorce, then me getting upset. I'd rather not.
IF you agree to answer the emails within a reasonable amount of time, then treasure him that you are not ignoring his messages BUT that his calls at work are "distracting".
Don't point out your pain to him.
Guilting him will backfire and frankly, it's not going to attract him back. Most men are uncomfortable when their wives cry, and they tend to flee faster.
Again, refer him to your need to take some time to process this, as it's a very important decision for both of you. And if you see a L, ask them about disclosing things. One thing I've realized is that treating my L as if she's my T, is expensive and not helpful. Talk emotions to the therapist and the law/legal strategy with your L.
PLEASE get as much information as you can asap about where you both bank, get some pictures of his pension and info re the 401k, any IRAs, cars & collections, savings, personal property value,) what YOU contributed to the renovations and such.
This is the most important financial transaction of your life. Be informed. See a L and realize that knowledge is power. His anger is not relevant to protecting your life and future security. Besides, when the dust settles the tempers will lessen.
Better to be financially secure and risk a bit of awkwardness at future events, than being ripped off and resentful the rest of your life.
what is your goal? To protect yourself? Okay. There is nothing vindictive there. Watch the tone you use with him. My DB coach used to say to "act as if the sedative you did not actually take, is kicking in."
There is power in the economy of words. Don't waste your breath. Calm interactions and you ending them first b/c you are busy GAL and being upbeat, will model the changes you want to make.
I told my dad and brother and they both thought that would make him really mad. I don't see why I should care, but I'm not trying to antagonize. Thoughts?
See above. You will never regret behaving in a strong & dignified way.
Hang in there. It gets better!
Thank you 25. You're words of support are invaluable! This forum and all of the posters lending words of encouragement, is the best thing when you need to get something off your chest or need some urgent advice. I know I'm just beginning, so I do hope it gets better. Thank you again.
In our last text exchange after some back and forth, I was able to do that somewhat. Acknowledged I was lashing out because I was hurt. Apologized for the hurt and lack of SL (another of our big issues). Said I know he must have felt like I didn't want him and certainly didn't make him feel good about himself. Again, apologized. He apologized too. I asked him a ? and he never responded, then later he posted that picture. I feel like I tried and it really got me nowhere. He knew I would see the pic, if not me directly, then someone would tell me. Humiliating. His behaviors show such strong anger and resentment for me. It's how I've seen him behave with other family members who he has long-held resentments. Odd to now be in that same place. I'm rambling...
Should a conversation arise, that would allow for these statements, I will try. I have set this as another goal.
Re. the coaching, I was wondering if it would even help in my case. I know many feel like all hope is lost, but my husband also has no contact & filed. $ isnt tight yet, but something I don't want to squander. I would be willing to make the expense if the consensus is that it will be beneficial, in addition to my regular IC.
I think it will be beneficial. For me it was the single most useful advice, and I also had a good T and did a ton of GAL.
DB coaches (in my experience anyhow) tailor the advice to your situation.
My instinct is to go with a woman if you can, (but maybe that's just me feeling more camaraderie with another wife.)
It's about the same cost as an out of pocket T, and you know they are pro marriage.
Mine was not pro m - at all costs, and that matters too.
Even before I had a chance to read your response, I registered for 3 coaching sessions, so I'm glad I did. It is nice to have confirmation from someone who has utilized the coaching.
I had my first consultation with a L. It was eye-opening. I didn't realize how expensive this can potentially be, for the L alone. I also had my suspicions confirmed in terms of what I'm entitled to, including alimony. I had no clue that was something I could possibly receive, simply due to the length of time we've been married. After this, it's insulting when I think about what he keeps offering.
I had asked about mediation options & this L said she probably wouldn't be able to represent me since we've already met. I guess it's a preference (?), but a completely neutral party would need to handle it. I have another phone consultation on Tuesday and this firm offers mediation as well. Frustrates me a bit because H says he'd like this to be amicable and in my mind that means through mediation. I believe he would like us to come to an agreement independantly and file papers using a paralegal. This seems ridiculous and not entirely smart if I agreed to it. What has he bothered to understand about the process? Not much I think. He's only gotten as far as filing, but has done nothing else. It's in my nature to research and be informed, he calls that controlling. I've stuggled with this because this should be an obvious 180 (not smart, but obvious), but I can't bring myself to act in this way. I'm not necessarily speaking of this particular instance, but scenarios involving $, which was our issue, how do you do something differently? H is impulsive and I'm more cautious and we usually never agreed on the right direction. He says I usually won because I was controlling.
glad you saw a L and are getting some coaching.
BTW, a divorce L (not the one I hired, in a different city) once told me that mediation helps the higher income earner more than the lower income earner.
Just saying -- and I'm sure that depends in part on legal fees.
The other thing I've learned, and I'm a L myself, is that "winning" in court is not the same as winning in real life. I have had 3 rulings in my favor but h ignores the court orders with impunity. It's not like on TV when a defendant is in contempt and gets jailed.
The judge usually scolds them and MAYBE makes them pay all the legal fees. Big deal.
My h hid money and still is. Claims he retired but I have photos of him working and then he says "the money is gone" and unless I pay someone to track it all down in another state (pricey) and attach it and then impose the judgments against it and force the sale,
you get the picture. So I'm saying a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.
My goal is to get all of the retirement nest egg even if it's less than h would have paid b/c then I'll know it's safe and he won't be able to take it all.
But my fear is that he already has. The irony is that he will inherit millions when his father passes, so it's just selfish greed and a huge sense of entitlement on his end, that is hindering this from moving forward. I had no idea what contempt he had for me or our m. And he cut off our youngest's college tuition too, saying he can't because of the spousal support he is NOT paying me. (Yes, I often want to scream). His behavior still makes me reel, maybe it's the OW or maybe it's his vilification to justify such cad like crap. Who knows?
Learn from my experience. In the last month when we were still together, I got very sick and was hospitalized.
So I was too out of it to protect myself. And boy am I paying the price. So are our children.
Protect yourself AND YES assume your h has made plans b/c he's already trying to buy you off at a steep discount. And he's rushing you too. There are reasons for what he's doing. Sorry.
glad you saw a L and are getting some coaching.
BTW, a divorce L (not the one I hired, in a different city) once told me that mediation helps the higher income earner more than the lower income earner.
I could see that. I don't want it to get any uglier than it already will be and thought mediaton would help. I wouldn't compromise on the pension either because I know that's more beneficial long-term. I'm not underestimating my husband, because who knows him anymore, but he is not that financially savvy. I just wouldn't be surprised if he does not much for anything that would require some effort.
Just saying -- and I'm sure that depends in part on legal fees.
The other thing I've learned, and I'm a L myself, is that "winning" in court is not the same as winning in real life. I have had 3 rulings in my favor but h ignores the court orders with impunity. It's not like on TV when a defendant is in contempt and gets jailed.
The judge usually scolds them and MAYBE makes them pay all the legal fees. Big deal.
My h hid money and still is. Claims he retired but I have photos of him working and then he says "the money is gone" and unless I pay someone to track it all down in another state (pricey) and attach it and then impose the judgments against it and force the sale, you get the picture. So I'm saying a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.
Your experience thus far is horrifying. With all that your H has put you through, the hits don't stop. He's gotten what he wants, living his life where he wants and with the one he wants, it's hard to understand the continued animosity.
My goal is to get all of the retirement nest egg even if it's less than h would have paid b/c then I'll know it's safe and he won't be able to take it all.
But my fear is that he already has. The irony is that he will inherit millions when his father passes, so it's just selfish greed and a huge sense of entitlement on his end, that is hindering this from moving forward. I had no idea what contempt he had for me or our m. And he cut off our youngest's college tuition too, saying he can't because of the spousal support he is NOT paying me. (Yes, I often want to scream). His behavior still makes me reel, maybe it's the OW or maybe it's his vilification to justify such cad like crap. Who knows?
My H will have a nice inheritance as well from his father. Not letting go of the pension seems like just a stupid power struggle. Nonsense. As a mother, I'm sure his treatment of your kids is probably most hurtful. I guess your daughter/tuition is just collateral damage in his quest to hurt you.
Learn from my experience. In the last month when we were still together, I got very sick and was hospitalized.
So I was too out of it to protect myself. And boy am I paying the price. So are our children.
Protect yourself AND YES assume your h has made plans b/c he's already trying to buy you off at a steep discount. And he's rushing you too. There are reasons for what he's doing. Sorry.
Unfortunately, I will learn from your experience. I am going to protect myself and anything I compromise on will be because I want to compromise. It won't be because I am being forced to or for lack of knowledge. His reason is he needs to ride off into the sunset with this person who isn't controlling and takes care of all of his sexual needs (i.e. not me) and that needs to happen now. No need to apologize, it's the truth. I wish it wasn't, but it is.
Curious, after almost a year since you filed do you feel like you've made any progress in healing? I was reading your most recents posts and seeing all of the major life events you've encountered. I hope you feel proud that you're still standing, working to get through this and make a new normal for yourself.
You're being very wise, LAJar. The truth is that, right now, your H is not going to act like the man you knew. He may steal, lie, be unreasonable and try to bully you. He may even do things that don't make sense at all. You can't control that but you can use your own brain, objective advice and a bit of detachment to make choices which make sense for you.
From reading D stories here, it seems to go one of two routes. Either they file and then seem surprised by the reality of it and drag their feet. Or they jump in and run full-speed and get angry that you're not responding in they way you should according to the plan in their head.
You're being very wise, LAJar. The truth is that, right now, your H is not going to act like the man you knew. He may steal, lie, be unreasonable and try to bully you. He may even do things that don't make sense at all. You can't control that but you can use your own brain, objective advice and a bit of detachment to make choices which make sense for you.
I'm really trying, Treasur. When I think about his choices and how he has flown into this relationship, it drives me into a big funk. And yes, this isn't the man I know/knew. It's amazing to think he said he was so unhappy with me and even miserable, you don't think any of that requires IC? The answer is to jump into an PA? Yes, I'm rational and know this makes no sense. It's just so difficult to see him throw our relationship away. I just got back from visiting my grandmother in the hospital and she doesn't know about us, so of course she was asking questions about H. He normally would have been there to visit and I think that's why I'm swinging back into sadness. I know this is my new reality, when I have memories of what used to be and that just [censored].
This doesn't change my plan to detach a bit and protect myself. A minor setback, I guess. I just hope I'm really dealing with the reality of it all. I feel like I might be pretending I'm feeling better and once things move forward, I break down.
From reading D stories here, it seems to go one of two routes. Either they file and then seem surprised by the reality of it and drag their feet. Or they jump in and run full-speed and get angry that you're not responding in they way you should according to the plan in their head.
My H is somewhat in between right now. He filed within 10 days of leaving and wants me to follow his plan, but he still hasn't served me. When we spoke about all of this, I asked him to table the divorce and give us a few months to work on things. He was firm in saying the D was happening. At the time, the PA was only a suspicion. His firmness, shutting down any reconciliation, the invalidation of our R, now all seem like he's doing it for her - what he tells her about our R and why he's in such a rush.
With that being said, I don't want this D, so I'm doing nothing to move it along. I will not file a response until I'm served. I still don't understand what's the hold up in serving me, but I don't understand much of what he's doing.
Hi all,
I just found this site and Michele's book last week.
This is my first post & I'm hoping to get some clarity, guidance, perspective.
July 21st after a small argument, not speaking for a couple of days, my husband told me he's miserable & I made his life miserable & wants a divorce.
I had just gotten home from work when he came to the bedroom & dropped this bomb.
He started to walk out & I asked if he had nothing else to say & couldn't we talk about it?
He didn't want to, but allowed me 5-10 minutes where he proceeded to blame me for all of his unhappiness, then left. He came back the next day, didn't say a word to me, nor I to him, got a few things & left.
Came back the following day to water, get some things from the garage & left.
I heard nothing from him until the following Tuesday when he told me he was going to an attorney to start the process & would like to be fair.
What would I like moneywise, assets. BTW, we just bought a house 3 months ago.
I didn't respond because I was actually going to counseling that day & wanted some direction before I responded.
My therapist suggested I simply ask to talk in person & leave it at that. I did & he said no, there's no going back just wanted to know what I wanted in the divorce. I said ok & do what you need to do.
He proceeded to text me a few more times over the next couple of days with the same & tried to ignore him until I finally told him to stop & give me a chance to see an attorney as well.
He came by the house on Saturday to get more things from the garage. I only heard him when he was in the front of the house & looked out the window just in time to see him flip off the house. I texted him that if he wanted to be civil, why would he do that? He responded angrily that now I was crying (when I looked out the window I was crying & had been before he got there) but wasn't emotional when he left.
As I mentioned we just bought a house & are in the middle of renovations.
I had just gotten the a/c repaired after it not working for the last 2 months & hearing it on made him angry. He believes the length of time it's taken to complete projects is all my fault (indecisive).
Now that he's left I'm on the ball & get the a/c fixed (hence the finger). We proceeded to go back & forth over text & I finally just called him & asked him to talk to me. He was angry & said he hated our relationship, I was controlling.
He said I never let him make any decisions in our old apt. & thought things would change when we bought this house.
Our sex life was pretty non-existent, said I hated his friends (a couple, not all), the city we live in (not my first choice, but getting used to it), we didn't have kids because I was too controlling. I have a son from a previous relationship and once my son hit 19, he left the house & went to live w/ my parents.
Now he says, I let my son leave when he was still in high school (not true) because I didn't like the way he parented my son. I always thought he was a little too hard, but acknowledged I was just being overprotective, but never stopped him from parenting because it wasn't abusive/harmful.
Outside of my dad/brothers, he is the only father-figure my son has & has been in my son's life for more than half of it. Sex & choices on the house I knew were an issue, but the others were all new to me. We ended the conversation with him saying he's sorry it has to be this way, but he was filing. I texted him after that I loved him & was sorry I didn't make him happy. He texted he loves me too, doesn't hate me just the relationship & is sorry its come to this.
Some relationship backstory... We've been together 14 years and married almost 10 (in Sept). I thought we had a good relationship, not perfect, but laughed a lot & truly enjoyed being w/ one another.
He left one time before about 7-8 years ago for a few weeks, but came back.
We briefly went to counseling, but really only tried to work on our communication ourselves, which I thought we were. He has been stressed. His mother who he was close to, passed away in '09 & this Jan. his father was diagnosed with dementia. B/t his sister & himself, they've been trying to care for their dad, who still lives alone but is declining in certain aspects. He & his sister constantly fight over his father's care.
He's had a lot of built-up aggression & started individual counseling, anger mgmt classes about 1.5 years go. It's been inconsistent though.
Add the stresses of a new house, renovations & our own marital issues & he blew.
The initial "small" argument was that we were supposed to travel to his friend's wedding.
I was responsible for booking travel. It was expensive, but offered to pitch in because I knew it was important to him. Was prolonging it in hopes of finding a deal but hadn't recently communicated that. Two days before he left, he told me to stop looking & we weren't going. He didn't want to look dumb & cancel at the last minute. It's a petty reason, but I really believe w/ all of the stress he was looking forward to this trip. When it didn't happen, he was upset & all of that highlighted my flaws.
Since our last phone conversation, he filed on 8/31 - I looked it up online. I believe (not 100% sure)they tried to serve me 2 days later.
I was in the shower & could hear the doorbell ringing (we never have visitors).
By the time I got out, no one was there. It's been a week & I'm just waiting for them to come back. In 2 weeks, my son is moving 5 hours away to finish school.
He texted if he could come by to discuss the sale of the house but I told him I was busy w/ my son's move. I also still haven't received any legal counsel & said once I get through this move, I will deal w/ the divorce. He said fine, but he's only seen a paralegal & was trying not to go the attorney route, so this would be civil. He has also not even bothered to call my son, which is really hurtful. I would normally say our son, but based on his actions, it's too painful.
Like many, this severe reaction is coming out of nowhere. I knew some of these issues, I just didn't know how deep they ran. His lack of interest in trying to work things through, go to counseling, which he says we've tried (yes, 8 years ago for 3 sessions), is shocking to me.
My first reaction was an affair, but I looked through our phone bills & nothing too suspicious (although he has since removed his phone from the family account).
He doesn't go out at night or on weekends w/out me that would cause suspicion.
I'm not ruling it out, but I'm also trying not to focus on that too much either.
I love my husband & would love nothing more than to reconcile & work on our marriage.
I know my part in this.
I also know, I have little control in that aspect, but with the filing it all seems to be going so fast. I haven't had any communication with him in a week and have little hope.
As I approach the 3rd week since he's left, I'm slowly picking myself off the floor and trying to GAL (counseling, reading the book, had drinks w/ friends).
There is zero communication, but I know I will have to text him about the mortgage payment.
He makes it & it hasn't been done. I'm dreading a response that he will not.
I apologize for the length, it just spilled out.
Thoughts, insight, suggestions are truly appreciated.
LAJar,
I'm with you. We have a lot of similarities. (I believe) My husband started his EA in late June/early July, we bought a house on July 28 and he moved out, after I exposed his EA and told him to leave since he didn't want to stop, on August 9. I have no advice to share, since I am literally in the same boat, but just wanted to tell you I'm here for you.
LA
You sound pretty good right now. Remember that It's not a linear process.
You will have peaceful days, good days, and you will backslide or something will trigger you.
Recently I think the upcoming year milestone has triggered some old feelings in me (and it's raining, again, outside. I miss the west coast weather and my older kids)
The other trigger for me is that our big hearing is in a month, and a lot of my financial future hinges on it.
Yes I have made progress. I have let go of the desire for a reconciliation, about as much as is possible.
I am excited about my own future, *starting it for real, without the financial sword of Damocles over my head. I'm ready to date without a big fat chip on my shoulder. I've been asked out and think I'll start accepting the invites.
I really really want this divorce process (legally/financially speaking) to be over.
The certainty of a budget will free me a lot. The job market here is hard for an out of state lawyer (hiring freeze for the feds)
but I'm working on getting something b/c I need the structure (and the income) and I look so forward to not needing h for money!
It's really the last tie he has over any of us. Several months ago, d20 told me she did not want to have to speak to h and that "after he pays for college I'll have no reason to speak to him again." I told her that her dad loves her and she (and her siblings) ALL asked me to stop saying that and not to defend him again. They were clear.
My youngest child (for whom he cut off college funding, though we paid for the older 2)
was awarded a huge cost reduction for college, which was SUCH a relief and gift from the God. I can't even express that enough. (And my s31 spearheaded the application for us and did 90% of the work).
It's a load off my mind and a huge stress relief for her, and she has been troubled in the past. Things like that help a lot.
I'm proud of my son and grateful my kids are close to each other and we are all tight.
What a blessing.
H's loss & he doesn't even know it.
Sure, I struggle with the injustice of it all. (The last week has really been a drag. Lots of rain and medical bills from last fall that are still unpaid. I hate that)
At night it's worse for me b/c I let my mental guard down. I do the cognitive work in the day that reminds me of what real unfairness is like to get perspective.
Of my 5 closest lifelong friends, 3 are facing major challenges in their lives (a double lung transplant & rejection, a friend who lost her son last fall to an unknown heart defect, and my dear friend who I'm meeting tomorrow, has cancer.
Whereas I sometimes think there's so much uncertainty for me, relatively speaking, I'm in good shape b/c I know my divorce process will end at some point, and I won't be so poor that I'll be on the street (I am getting half the pensions and they are arriving now, finally). And I feel my health is mostly restored. I'm around the corner from good things.
And I have health insurance too, and family and close friends are in the area and very supportive.
I'm working through a lot of changes that happened in a short time, and I will NOT repress or pretend it does not hurt or infuriate me. I don't want anymore secrets or shamed silence.
But I also won't wallow or stay stuck or become bitter. I'm a good person with a lot to give and I believe I have a lot coming my way.
H has some defects I must have avoided or deflected from. Or been blind to. I will figure that out.
I also became far too complacent about the m recently, b/c I think I believed that once D20 was out of the house, we would address what we each wanted. We once had a very good m, and knowing that makes it harder at times, to see it end. Or to realize the future you planned is not to be.
At no time did h say he was unhappy or wanted to change anything. Not once.
I mistakenly interpreted h's work ethic and intelligence as meaning he had character or was honest. I know with all my heart I'd never have done anything like this to him or our kids.
When I feel there's an "equation" to this that I am "losing", I remind myself of my own loyalty and what he lost, and I realize, (usually) that I probably dodged a bullet.
His recent behavior has benefited me in 2 ways. I am not looking over my shoulder trying to dance for him to come back. No thanks.
And the mourning I was doing, has been propelled forward like a rocket. If he can behave this way, I'm so ooooo not interested in going backwards. Being without him or any man, is better than being with someone who could do these things.
When the money piece is complete, I don't think I will look back much at all.
You sound as if your eyes are open, but the new account he opened is something to watch. There is no "good" reason for that. Sorry.
New Ow's need attention and that means money, and if they are planning a life together they may justify keeping all the money.
We had a lovely home i did not feel we could afford when we bought it.
Both older kids recall hearing ME saying I thought we were "Biting off more than we could chew" but h insisted b/c the "land will double in value".
He was wrong. It's not factually important now but he put in his legal pleading that I "made him buy it". Aside from not ever being able to make that cheapskate buy anything he did not want to, it's just weird.
It is such a distortion of reality/history. I mean, it's the opposite of true.
My point is they can do some serious marital revisions and that means they can justify things you'd never believe.
sorry to be scaring you b/c I believe a truly honest appraisal of our marriages in light of these betrayals is at first devastating and can bring you to your knees.
Later, with some time and insight, and a lot of work (as you see here), we tend to WAKE up for our lives and live them more authentically and fully.
I'm DOING more than I did before my mom died, and I love more people and an connecting meaningfully.
I'm nearing the time of enacting my "new life" trying to get overseas.
I just did not think this divorce would take so long. If you can get some money (not more than half since that's his)
to prepare for the possibility that your h may go a bit bonkers, you might have more peace of mind.
Bluewave's h had an affair and returned and they are now in "piecing" trying to rebuild their m.
Check out her thread so that If you and your h try to reconcile down the road, you'll have some guidance.
My h & I reconciled for years but I never asked him to get IC. I wish I had. Not that he'd have had the awakening I thought he had, but maybe the truth is that he really did not place a big priority on family time.
He evidently prefers living on the tundra - even before the OW (I think) and living away from us in other states or cities, was his preference. He wasn't that into 7 days a week parenting.
Seems obvious now...so maybe knowing this 10 years ago would have saved me time, but as my T says, "regrets are counter productive once you know what you would do differently."
And that's something I need to be disciplined about. Re-framing my perspective and reinvigorating my faith.
Keep posting, hang in there.
((( )))
I'm sorry, LAJar. The WTF shock of realising you are dealing with someone very different now is hard and painful. I would never have believed ny H capable of doing some of the crazy, horrible things he has done. But it doesn't change the reality of what you need to deal with. Detachment really helps, but don't worry that you'll dip in and out. It's really early days.
Hi all,
I just found this site and Michele's book last week.
This is my first post & I'm hoping to get some clarity, guidance, perspective.
July 21st after a small argument, not speaking for a couple of days, my husband told me he's miserable & I made his life miserable & wants a divorce.
I had just gotten home from work when he came to the bedroom & dropped this bomb.
He started to walk out & I asked if he had nothing else to say & couldn't we talk about it?
He didn't want to, but allowed me 5-10 minutes where he proceeded to blame me for all of his unhappiness, then left. He came back the next day, didn't say a word to me, nor I to him, got a few things & left.
Came back the following day to water, get some things from the garage & left.
I heard nothing from him until the following Tuesday when he told me he was going to an attorney to start the process & would like to be fair.
What would I like moneywise, assets. BTW, we just bought a house 3 months ago.
I didn't respond because I was actually going to counseling that day & wanted some direction before I responded.
My therapist suggested I simply ask to talk in person & leave it at that. I did & he said no, there's no going back just wanted to know what I wanted in the divorce. I said ok & do what you need to do.
He proceeded to text me a few more times over the next couple of days with the same & tried to ignore him until I finally told him to stop & give me a chance to see an attorney as well.
He came by the house on Saturday to get more things from the garage. I only heard him when he was in the front of the house & looked out the window just in time to see him flip off the house. I texted him that if he wanted to be civil, why would he do that? He responded angrily that now I was crying (when I looked out the window I was crying & had been before he got there) but wasn't emotional when he left.
As I mentioned we just bought a house & are in the middle of renovations.
I had just gotten the a/c repaired after it not working for the last 2 months & hearing it on made him angry. He believes the length of time it's taken to complete projects is all my fault (indecisive).
Now that he's left I'm on the ball & get the a/c fixed (hence the finger). We proceeded to go back & forth over text & I finally just called him & asked him to talk to me. He was angry & said he hated our relationship, I was controlling.
He said I never let him make any decisions in our old apt. & thought things would change when we bought this house.
Our sex life was pretty non-existent, said I hated his friends (a couple, not all), the city we live in (not my first choice, but getting used to it), we didn't have kids because I was too controlling. I have a son from a previous relationship and once my son hit 19, he left the house & went to live w/ my parents.
Now he says, I let my son leave when he was still in high school (not true) because I didn't like the way he parented my son. I always thought he was a little too hard, but acknowledged I was just being overprotective, but never stopped him from parenting because it wasn't abusive/harmful.
Outside of my dad/brothers, he is the only father-figure my son has & has been in my son's life for more than half of it. Sex & choices on the house I knew were an issue, but the others were all new to me. We ended the conversation with him saying he's sorry it has to be this way, but he was filing. I texted him after that I loved him & was sorry I didn't make him happy. He texted he loves me too, doesn't hate me just the relationship & is sorry its come to this.
Some relationship backstory... We've been together 14 years and married almost 10 (in Sept). I thought we had a good relationship, not perfect, but laughed a lot & truly enjoyed being w/ one another.
He left one time before about 7-8 years ago for a few weeks, but came back.
We briefly went to counseling, but really only tried to work on our communication ourselves, which I thought we were. He has been stressed. His mother who he was close to, passed away in '09 & this Jan. his father was diagnosed with dementia. B/t his sister & himself, they've been trying to care for their dad, who still lives alone but is declining in certain aspects. He & his sister constantly fight over his father's care.
He's had a lot of built-up aggression & started individual counseling, anger mgmt classes about 1.5 years go. It's been inconsistent though.
Add the stresses of a new house, renovations & our own marital issues & he blew.
The initial "small" argument was that we were supposed to travel to his friend's wedding.
I was responsible for booking travel. It was expensive, but offered to pitch in because I knew it was important to him. Was prolonging it in hopes of finding a deal but hadn't recently communicated that. Two days before he left, he told me to stop looking & we weren't going. He didn't want to look dumb & cancel at the last minute. It's a petty reason, but I really believe w/ all of the stress he was looking forward to this trip. When it didn't happen, he was upset & all of that highlighted my flaws.
Since our last phone conversation, he filed on 8/31 - I looked it up online. I believe (not 100% sure)they tried to serve me 2 days later.
I was in the shower & could hear the doorbell ringing (we never have visitors).
By the time I got out, no one was there. It's been a week & I'm just waiting for them to come back. In 2 weeks, my son is moving 5 hours away to finish school.
He texted if he could come by to discuss the sale of the house but I told him I was busy w/ my son's move. I also still haven't received any legal counsel & said once I get through this move, I will deal w/ the divorce. He said fine, but he's only seen a paralegal & was trying not to go the attorney route, so this would be civil. He has also not even bothered to call my son, which is really hurtful. I would normally say our son, but based on his actions, it's too painful.
Like many, this severe reaction is coming out of nowhere. I knew some of these issues, I just didn't know how deep they ran. His lack of interest in trying to work things through, go to counseling, which he says we've tried (yes, 8 years ago for 3 sessions), is shocking to me.
My first reaction was an affair, but I looked through our phone bills & nothing too suspicious (although he has since removed his phone from the family account).
He doesn't go out at night or on weekends w/out me that would cause suspicion.
I'm not ruling it out, but I'm also trying not to focus on that too much either.
I love my husband & would love nothing more than to reconcile & work on our marriage.
I know my part in this.
I also know, I have little control in that aspect, but with the filing it all seems to be going so fast. I haven't had any communication with him in a week and have little hope.
As I approach the 3rd week since he's left, I'm slowly picking myself off the floor and trying to GAL (counseling, reading the book, had drinks w/ friends).
There is zero communication, but I know I will have to text him about the mortgage payment.
He makes it & it hasn't been done. I'm dreading a response that he will not.
I apologize for the length, it just spilled out.
Thoughts, insight, suggestions are truly appreciated.
LAJar,
I'm with you. We have a lot of similarities. (I believe) My husband started his EA in late June/early July, we bought a house on July 28 and he moved out, after I exposed his EA and told him to leave since he didn't want to stop, on August 9. I have no advice to share, since I am literally in the same boat, but just wanted to tell you I'm here for you.
daisy82, thanks for the response. At a time when we should be the happiest with a new home purchase, it has added a whole new set of problems to this horrible situation. A bit different and I don't know which is worse in that I have almost zero contact with H and feels like he does it because he's in new R & wouldn't want to cheat on her with me - or - you still having contact with husband all while he cake-eats. Guess they're both just as bad in their own way. I appreciate the support and lend mine to you as well. With the benefits of a few more weeks of "experience" on you, you will start to feel better. Try to draw those boundaries and keep them. At this point, he's not coming to you to try to reconcile and until then, you have to believe what he's said to you when he left and how he's doubling down on those words with his actions (still speaking to OW, moving out, etc.). Continue to GAL as much as possible, especially in areas that make you feel confident and give you a sense of accomplishment. He's made these choices and now needs to live with the consequences of those choices. These are all things I remind myself on the daily. It's not easy, but it's all you can do to keep afloat.
Hi all,
I just found this site and Michele's book last week.
This is my first post & I'm hoping to get some clarity, guidance, perspective.
July 21st after a small argument, not speaking for a couple of days, my husband told me he's miserable & I made his life miserable & wants a divorce.
I had just gotten home from work when he came to the bedroom & dropped this bomb.
He started to walk out & I asked if he had nothing else to say & couldn't we talk about it?
He didn't want to, but allowed me 5-10 minutes where he proceeded to blame me for all of his unhappiness, then left. He came back the next day, didn't say a word to me, nor I to him, got a few things & left.
Came back the following day to water, get some things from the garage & left.
I heard nothing from him until the following Tuesday when he told me he was going to an attorney to start the process & would like to be fair.
What would I like moneywise, assets. BTW, we just bought a house 3 months ago.
I didn't respond because I was actually going to counseling that day & wanted some direction before I responded.
My therapist suggested I simply ask to talk in person & leave it at that. I did & he said no, there's no going back just wanted to know what I wanted in the divorce. I said ok & do what you need to do.
He proceeded to text me a few more times over the next couple of days with the same & tried to ignore him until I finally told him to stop & give me a chance to see an attorney as well.
He came by the house on Saturday to get more things from the garage. I only heard him when he was in the front of the house & looked out the window just in time to see him flip off the house. I texted him that if he wanted to be civil, why would he do that? He responded angrily that now I was crying (when I looked out the window I was crying & had been before he got there) but wasn't emotional when he left.
As I mentioned we just bought a house & are in the middle of renovations.
I had just gotten the a/c repaired after it not working for the last 2 months & hearing it on made him angry. He believes the length of time it's taken to complete projects is all my fault (indecisive).
Now that he's left I'm on the ball & get the a/c fixed (hence the finger). We proceeded to go back & forth over text & I finally just called him & asked him to talk to me. He was angry & said he hated our relationship, I was controlling.
He said I never let him make any decisions in our old apt. & thought things would change when we bought this house.
Our sex life was pretty non-existent, said I hated his friends (a couple, not all), the city we live in (not my first choice, but getting used to it), we didn't have kids because I was too controlling. I have a son from a previous relationship and once my son hit 19, he left the house & went to live w/ my parents.
Now he says, I let my son leave when he was still in high school (not true) because I didn't like the way he parented my son. I always thought he was a little too hard, but acknowledged I was just being overprotective, but never stopped him from parenting because it wasn't abusive/harmful.
Outside of my dad/brothers, he is the only father-figure my son has & has been in my son's life for more than half of it. Sex & choices on the house I knew were an issue, but the others were all new to me. We ended the conversation with him saying he's sorry it has to be this way, but he was filing. I texted him after that I loved him & was sorry I didn't make him happy. He texted he loves me too, doesn't hate me just the relationship & is sorry its come to this.
Some relationship backstory... We've been together 14 years and married almost 10 (in Sept). I thought we had a good relationship, not perfect, but laughed a lot & truly enjoyed being w/ one another.
He left one time before about 7-8 years ago for a few weeks, but came back.
We briefly went to counseling, but really only tried to work on our communication ourselves, which I thought we were. He has been stressed. His mother who he was close to, passed away in '09 & this Jan. his father was diagnosed with dementia. B/t his sister & himself, they've been trying to care for their dad, who still lives alone but is declining in certain aspects. He & his sister constantly fight over his father's care.
He's had a lot of built-up aggression & started individual counseling, anger mgmt classes about 1.5 years go. It's been inconsistent though.
Add the stresses of a new house, renovations & our own marital issues & he blew.
The initial "small" argument was that we were supposed to travel to his friend's wedding.
I was responsible for booking travel. It was expensive, but offered to pitch in because I knew it was important to him. Was prolonging it in hopes of finding a deal but hadn't recently communicated that. Two days before he left, he told me to stop looking & we weren't going. He didn't want to look dumb & cancel at the last minute. It's a petty reason, but I really believe w/ all of the stress he was looking forward to this trip. When it didn't happen, he was upset & all of that highlighted my flaws.
Since our last phone conversation, he filed on 8/31 - I looked it up online. I believe (not 100% sure)they tried to serve me 2 days later.
I was in the shower & could hear the doorbell ringing (we never have visitors).
By the time I got out, no one was there. It's been a week & I'm just waiting for them to come back. In 2 weeks, my son is moving 5 hours away to finish school.
He texted if he could come by to discuss the sale of the house but I told him I was busy w/ my son's move. I also still haven't received any legal counsel & said once I get through this move, I will deal w/ the divorce. He said fine, but he's only seen a paralegal & was trying not to go the attorney route, so this would be civil. He has also not even bothered to call my son, which is really hurtful. I would normally say our son, but based on his actions, it's too painful.
Like many, this severe reaction is coming out of nowhere. I knew some of these issues, I just didn't know how deep they ran. His lack of interest in trying to work things through, go to counseling, which he says we've tried (yes, 8 years ago for 3 sessions), is shocking to me.
My first reaction was an affair, but I looked through our phone bills & nothing too suspicious (although he has since removed his phone from the family account).
He doesn't go out at night or on weekends w/out me that would cause suspicion.
I'm not ruling it out, but I'm also trying not to focus on that too much either.
I love my husband & would love nothing more than to reconcile & work on our marriage.
I know my part in this.
I also know, I have little control in that aspect, but with the filing it all seems to be going so fast. I haven't had any communication with him in a week and have little hope.
As I approach the 3rd week since he's left, I'm slowly picking myself off the floor and trying to GAL (counseling, reading the book, had drinks w/ friends).
There is zero communication, but I know I will have to text him about the mortgage payment.
He makes it & it hasn't been done. I'm dreading a response that he will not.
I apologize for the length, it just spilled out.
Thoughts, insight, suggestions are truly appreciated.
LAJar,
I'm with you. We have a lot of similarities. (I believe) My husband started his EA in late June/early July, we bought a house on July 28 and he moved out, after I exposed his EA and told him to leave since he didn't want to stop, on August 9. I have no advice to share, since I am literally in the same boat, but just wanted to tell you I'm here for you.
daisy82, thanks for the response. At a time when we should be the happiest with a new home purchase, it has added a whole new set of problems to this horrible situation. A bit different and I don't know which is worse in that I have almost zero contact with H and feels like he does it because he's in new R & wouldn't want to cheat on her with me - or - you still having contact with husband all while he cake-eats. Guess they're both just as bad in their own way. I appreciate the support and lend mine to you as well. With the benefits of a few more weeks of "experience" on you, you will start to feel better. Try to draw those boundaries and keep them. At this point, he's not coming to you to try to reconcile and until then, you have to believe what he's said to you when he left and how he's doubling down on those words with his actions (still speaking to OW, moving out, etc.). Continue to GAL as much as possible, especially in areas that make you feel confident and give you a sense of accomplishment. He's made these choices and now needs to live with the consequences of those choices. These are all things I remind myself on the daily. It's not easy, but it's all you can do to keep afloat.
Thanks for the support. You can read more about my situation on my post on the Newcomers board.
You're absolutely right. The new house purchase definitely exacerbates the situation. I have been pouring myself into upgrading the house, painting, decorating, etc. He has been telling me he's really impressed by it. On one hand, it makes me feel good to hear that - but on the other hand, I get very annoyed because I'm doing this all alone and he should be here working on the house with me.
LA
You sound pretty good right now. Remember that It's not a linear process.
Oh how I wish it was, because this up and down nonsense is draining. I can't imagine feeling this way for months(years?) on end.
You will have peaceful days, good days, and you will backslide or something will trigger you.
Recently I think the upcoming year milestone has triggered some old feelings in me (and it's raining, again, outside. I miss the west coast weather and my older kids)
The other trigger for me is that our big hearing is in a month, and a lot of my financial future hinges on it.
I can definitely see that these looming events are having an effect. Who can blame you?! However, if the hearing goes well financially, I think that will do you a world of good. I can't imagine feeling tied to H so completely in that way. Having someone so unpredictable responsible for your finances is not a way to live. Don't be too envious of the west coast weather, it's been in the 100s for the last few days.
Yes I have made progress. I have let go of the desire for a reconciliation, about as much as is possible.
I am excited about my own future, *starting it for real, without the financial sword of Damocles over my head. I'm ready to date without a big fat chip on my shoulder. I've been asked out and think I'll start accepting the invites.
I really really want this divorce process (legally/financially speaking) to be over.
The certainty of a budget will free me a lot. The job market here is hard for an out of state lawyer (hiring freeze for the feds) but I'm working on getting something b/c I need the structure (and the income) and I look so forward to not needing h for money!
It's really the last tie he has over any of us. Several months ago, d20 told me she did not want to have to speak to h and that "after he pays for college I'll have no reason to speak to him again." I told her that her dad loves her and she (and her siblings) ALL asked me to stop saying that and not to defend him again. They were clear.
My youngest child (for whom he cut off college funding, though we paid for the older 2) was awarded a huge cost reduction for college, which was SUCH a relief and gift from the God. I can't even express that enough. (And my s31 spearheaded the application for us and did 90% of the work). It's a load off my mind and a huge stress relief for her, and she has been troubled in the past. Things like that help a lot.
I'm proud of my son and grateful my kids are close to each other and we are all tight. What a blessing.
H's loss & he doesn't even know it.
It is completely H's loss. He may not see it now, but maybe when he's older and things aren't going so well for him, he will realize. I have a friend who has been divorced for 9 years. Her H had been cheating on her and it was clear that wasn't going to stop. When her D was 8 months old she filed. She told me of interviewing L's with an 8 month old in a carrier and sometimes driving away because she was too scared. She finally did and was able to forge a new life. After suffering depression and anxiety, she finally came out the other side. A month ago, her Ex-H was diagnosed w/ cancer. It brought him to his knees. They've had many soul-baring convos since then and after 9 years, he finally apologized for all of the mistakes he's made. It's sad that's what it took, but I guess better late than never. He is lucky his D is willing to forgive and move on, as he was a less than stellar father as well. Maybe your H will get to that place and if he does, hopefully your kids will be open to him (if only for themselves). It should make you feel so proud to see them come together not only for each other, but for their mom as well. I know seeing my S's protective nature come out, has made me feel unbelievably good. Same for my family. They have stepped up in a big way and given so much support. I couldn't ask for anything more.
Sure, I struggle with the injustice of it all. (The last week has really been a drag. Lots of rain and medical bills from last fall that are still unpaid. I hate that)
At night it's worse for me b/c I let my mental guard down. I do the cognitive work in the day that reminds me of what
real unfairness is like to get perspective.
Of my 5 closest lifelong friends, 3 are facing major challenges in their lives (a double lung transplant & rejection, a friend who lost her son last fall to an unknown heart defect, and my dear friend who I'm meeting tomorrow, has cancer.
Whereas I sometimes think there's so much uncertainty for me, relatively speaking, I'm in good shape b/c I know my divorce process will end at some point, and I won't be so poor that I'll be on the street (I am getting half the pensions and they are arriving now, finally). And I feel my health is mostly restored. I'm around the corner from good things.
And I have health insurance too, and family and close friends are in the area and very supportive.
I'm working through a lot of changes that happened in a short time, and I will NOT repress or pretend it does not hurt or infuriate me. I don't want anymore secrets or shamed silence.
But I also won't wallow or stay stuck or become bitter. I'm a good person with a lot to give and I believe I have a lot coming my way.
I do think this is half the battle. There were two playing a part in the marriage breakdown. With that being said, you're a good woman, wife and mother, who wants the best for your family. Any man would be a fool not to see and appreciate that. You are smart, resourceful (getting through all that you have, you'd have to be) and will turn the corner once this is all done to a healthier, happier life. I'm sure of it.
H has some defects I must have avoided or deflected from. Or been blind to. I will figure that out.
I also became far too complacent about the m recently, b/c I think I believed that once D20 was out of the house, we would address what we each wanted. We once had a very good m, and knowing that makes it harder at times, to see it end. Or to realize the future you planned is not to be. At no time did h say he was unhappy or wanted to change anything. Not once.
I think everyone has defects, but maybe the good outweighed the bad? Or at the point you are already married and realize that, you find ways to work around them. You weren't so quick to abandon the marriage as he has done. I think a good majority of us are guilty of being complacent or we wouldn't be where we're at now. Without good communication on both sides though, how do you know the severity of the situation? If there are issues, they always need to be worked on in the now and most times with a professional. I have to say, this does concern me for any future Rs. How will I ever trust any R is on solid ground? I thought we were with just normal R issues. Never did he tell me he was so unhappy. I feel like I will always have that in the back of my head and feel on edge for any other man. God help them.
I mistakenly interpreted h's work ethic and intelligence as meaning he had character or was honest. I know with all my heart I'd
never have done anything like this to him or our kids.
When I feel there's an "equation" to this that I am "losing", I remind myself of my own loyalty and what he lost, and I realize, (usually) that I probably dodged a bullet.
My brother tells me that all the time. He says better to know now, rebuild and live a happy, secure life from here on.
His recent behavior has benefited me in 2 ways. I am not looking over my shoulder trying to dance for him to come back. No thanks.
And the mourning I was doing, has been propelled forward like a rocket. If he can behave this way, I'm so ooooo not interested in going backwards. Being without him or any man, is better than being with someone who could do these things.
When the money piece is complete, I don't think I will look back much at all.
You sound as if your eyes are open, but the new account he opened is something to watch. There is no "good" reason for that. Sorry.
New Ow's need attention and that means money, and if they are planning a life together they may justify keeping all the money.
This may have been someone else, because H and I always had separate bank accounts. He only opened a new cell account. There still is no "good" reason for that other than him not wanting me to see who he's calling, but I digress. Yes, OW definitely needs $. A quick Google search of her name showed she makes 1/3 of what he does (public info since she works for a pub school). I will never stop being amazed at what Google reveals on a person's background. Anyway, I'm sure she's loving that and he's loving being the big spender.
We had a lovely home i did not feel we could afford when we bought it.
Both older kids recall hearing ME saying I thought we were "Biting off more than we could chew" but h insisted b/c the "land will double in value".
He was wrong. It's not factually important now but he put in his legal pleading that I "made him buy it". Aside from not ever being able to make that cheapskate buy anything he did not want to, it's just weird.
It is such a distortion of reality/history. I mean, it's
the opposite of true. My point is they can do some serious marital revisions and that means they can justify things you'd never believe.
sorry to be scaring you b/c I believe a truly honest appraisal of our marriages in light of these betrayals is at first devastating and can bring you to your knees.
This isn't scaring me, but is just sad. I've already seen him do this with his declarations of how miserable he's been and how it's been over for a long time. I know he's has to say this to not only justify his indefensible actions, as well as prove to the OW. Don't get me wrong, it's hurtful, but not even close to being 100% true. Unhappy at times, yes. Unhappy only with just me, no. This is from a man who has had a lot of loss in his life he's not dealt with and issues in our marriage we never confronted. He's running and I know this, but until he comes to me - NOT MY PROBLEM.
Later, with some time and insight, and a lot of work (as you see here), we tend to WAKE up for our lives and live them more authentically and fully.
I'm DOING more than I did before my mom died, and I love more people and an connecting meaningfully.
I'm nearing the time of enacting my "new life" trying to get overseas.
I just did not think this divorce would take so long. If you can get some money (not more than half since that's his)
to prepare for the possibility that your h may go a bit bonkers, you might have more peace of mind.
Bluewave's h had an affair and returned and they are now in "piecing" trying to rebuild their m.
Will definitely take a look at least to read a positive turn and curious what that has brought to the mix.
Check out her thread so that If you and your h try to reconcile down the road, you'll have some guidance.
My h & I reconciled for years but I never asked him to get IC. I wish I had. Not that he'd have had the awakening I thought he had, but maybe the truth is that he really did not place a big priority on family time.
He evidently prefers living on the tundra - even before the OW (I think) and living away from us in other states or cities, was his preference. He wasn't that into 7 days a week parenting.
Seems obvious now...so maybe knowing this 10 years ago would have saved me time, but as my T says, "regrets are counter productive once you know what you would do differently."
IC is something I think my husband needs now. He's extremely inconsistent (once every 4-6 months, what's the point?) and believe he doesn't go now because he doesn't want to face the mirror. If your H would have gone, it may have revealed the truth early on, but it also may have allowed him to do things in a better way. It's bad enough the M is breaking up, but the hurt is compounded by how they've treated us and the kids in the process.
And that's something I need to be disciplined about. Re-framing my perspective and reinvigorating my faith.
Keep posting, hang in there.
I'm still sad, but hanging in there. You too. You're so close to some real closure.
((( )))
daisy82,
I had actually read your post awhile back and remember relating because of the recent home purchase.
I can't afford to buy my husband out and don't think he can either, but I also will NOT allow him to live our life in this house with OW. Since he's left and couldn't care less about the house other than paying the mortgage, I am finishing up some final renovation projects we had planned. It is sad and upsetting to be doing these things alone, because we had planned these projects together. Even though we're going to sell, I'm doing them to protect the value of the house. It's amazing how little he cares about that.
It seems as though you are in a state of limbo, with your H's back and forth. If things progess to D, will you still keep the house? From your post, you have resentment for his lack of involvement. Has he indicated he's considering a reconciliation?
I'm sorry, LAJar. The WTF shock of realising you are dealing with someone very different now is hard and painful. I would never have believed ny H capable of doing some of the crazy, horrible things he has done. But it doesn't change the reality of what you need to deal with. Detachment really helps, but don't worry that you'll dip in and out. It's really early days.
The WTF shock is right. Small things are making sense now. During the 1st week, he came by periodically even when I was home. That stopped shortly thereafter, then he'd only come by when I wasn't home. He was still coming by to water, put out the trash or bring the cans in, then that stopped. Outside was his domain & he stopped caring. There was a complete stop to any reconiciliaton talk. His complete detachment from me and the house was astounding, but the OW is the clear answer now. I'm not blind to think she fell out of the sky a week after he left. I think as he started to feel upset with me, he started to get brave on his new FB page. It allowed him to start investigating what was out there. So completely out of character for the old him. To feel like he's throwing our relationship away for someone who will give him all of the sex he so craves, is horrible. That realization is difficult for the dejected spouse no matter H or W.
I hope detaching helps, but I know it can't carry on this way. I think it will piss him off when he doesn't hear from me what I will be doing next & because I blocked his phone. He knows I was speaking to a L on Friday & he's probably expecting an update so he can move his agenda forward. That's not happening.
daisy82,
I had actually read your post awhile back and remember relating because of the recent home purchase.
I can't afford to buy my husband out and don't think he can either, but I also will NOT allow him to live our life in this house with OW. Since he's left and couldn't care less about the house other than paying the mortgage, I am finishing up some final renovation projects we had planned. It is sad and upsetting to be doing these things alone, because we had planned these projects together. Even though we're going to sell, I'm doing them to protect the value of the house. It's amazing how little he cares about that.
It seems as though you are in a state of limbo, with your H's back and forth. If things progess to D, will you still keep the house? From your post, you have resentment for his lack of involvement. Has he indicated he's considering a reconciliation?
I don't think we plan on selling the house. He is giving me 1/2 of the mortgage and our kids live with me. He has absolutely not said anything about considering a reconciliation. When I 180, he pursues me... then I fall into it because I love and miss him -- but he still leaves our house every day to freely call his long-distance EA OW.
Update: Feels like weeks have gone by since my last update, but it was only Sunday and so much has happened. I told myself I wouldn't look at his FB pages until at least after the weekend. I should have waited even longer... Saw more pics of a weekend getaway to Vegas w/ her mother & her BF. He "had" a tattoo of my name on his arm, which I never asked him to do. I believe he's already removed it. For some reason that was a huge blow. Feels like he's trying to erase me and anything having to do with me from his life. Luckily I saw this yesterday, which was the same day I had my 1st DB coaching session. Prior to the call, I did a good job of talking myself off the ledge and also spoke with another L. Interesting that this L didn't see as confident on some things as the other. I still need to speak with one more though.
As I said, I had my first coaching session and it went well. Much of it entailed me relaying our story and how I/we got to where we are. The coach believes he's going through a MLC. I thought that at first, but wasn't sure if I was just trying to make myself feel better. Ha! As if that's possible. Anyway, with our only communication being H texting to ask what I'd like from the divorce, the coach gave me a mantra to repeat to him - I'm sad that you feel divorce is the answer to our R problems. I do not agree with that. However, if you feel you need to do this, I will not stop you from doing what you need to do. I'm paraphrasing, but it will be helpful should we communicate. It let's him know my stance and puts the ball completely in his court. Since I haven't been served, I'm in limbo, hoping every 15th of the month, he pays the mortgage. I don't know how long I'll be able to go on like this...
H is in complete euphoria (limerence?) w/ the OW. From what I can see, they are doing fun things, new things. It's great for now, but I know things are going to start getting heavy for him. Maybe, maybe not b/t the two of them, but at least for him emotionally. Part of his issues are what he hasn't dealt with, with his father. He is always super emotional because of that and definitely added to our situation. With FIL's dementia and no IC, the situation will only continue to get worse. This is how I always took care of him. Of course, right now that's not my job. It's just hard to realize that.
IC for me tomorrow, so that's always good. I feel like my life now revolves around therapy, divorce and relationship talk. I'm off to the gym - first time back in about 4 months!