ILYBINILWY - OW - what to do next 3

New thread

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2751705&#Post2751705

Forgot to say earlier H text last night well after he should have been back to say he wasn't going to make it, like I didn't already know that! I said no worries hope today went OK as he was doing a big presentation. He replied to say it was OK and could I record Game of Thrones on Sky at 9pm???? WTF he doesn't live here anymore. I didn't reply

Could you record game of thrones...

Lol..

He needs some Joffrey treatment

Originally Posted By: SJW

I think you need a clear schedule. Why should he be allowed to come and go as he pleases while you are stuck waiting on finding out if he has plans or not before you can go out? If he is going to have custody in the future, I think this should be established now. I will caution you - try not to judge what he is doing on 'his time' without the kids and try not to be a bully about the schedule in terms of trying to make it impossible for him to see OW. Instead, pick what days are important for you and go from there.

He is dictating to me but not consistently what he is doing an when. Most of what I do involves the kids so doesn't matter to me when he sees them for my benefit. I have asked him to have them one weekend at the end of August as I have 2 weddings. Honestly, I am scared that he will take them to her house if I'm not around and I think it's way too soon for that?

But you asking him to watch the kids shouldnt be a favor. You shouldnt have to make individual requests. Plus, you should be able to plan things to do as GAL without the kids without needing a favor from him. Thats why I think getting a parenting schedule together and agreed is crucial. Otherwise, if youre going to fight for sole custody, then so be it.

Originally Posted By: SJW

You do know that there is never a good time to do this right? To me, it feels like you are waiting, because if you keep putting it off, theres a chance it wont happen.

I know there is never a good time but one more week in school and he was fine with next weekend until he spoke to OW. He only told me 5 weeks ago. Why should she get to dictate when he tells our kids. I can see why this would be seen as me being controlling but it's OK for her.

Well, first Id stop worrying about OW...She isnt your concern at the moment. My question to you is what does it matter what the date is? Why is it crucial to wait a week? I get that there is a week of school - but wont doing it the first week of summer vacation put a damper on the summer? etc. What is your fundamental issue?

Originally Posted By: SJW

Why are you OK with this?

I shouldn't be but it felt OK at the time as we were discussing the kids and he was being kind.

So, what are you going to do to transition yourself to act based on logic/reason vs. emotion/what 'feels OK'? If your boundary is that you arent going to be in a relationship with a man thats sleeping with someone else, how does this back up your words?

Originally Posted By: SJW

What is your reasoning for doing these 'family days'? He just told you hes going to be sleeping at OW's when he wants and only being with you when it's convenient for him.

Because the kids don't know yet but even when they do is it not right for them? This is something I keep questioning myself as if we do family stuff it's nice for them but it's allowing them to have his cake and eat it? Then I think if I don't do it I'm punishing them for what he has done? This is a genuine question that I would really appreciate advice on.

Lets spin this out....

If he announces to them that he is leaving you and dating OW, will you still do these days?

What if you are divorced and he is dating OW?

What if you are divorced and he is remarried to OW?

Where do you draw the line that these days are 'not good' for the kids anymore?

To me, it sounds like you are making excuses, because you think that with enough quality time, you can 'beat' OW.

Benni

What is Joffrey treatment?

SJ x

Search youtube for Joffrey death game of thrones.

Im sure you will be pleased

But you asking him to watch the kids shouldnt be a favor. You shouldnt have to make individual requests. Plus, you should be able to plan things to do as GAL without the kids without needing a favor from him. Thats why I think getting a parenting schedule together and agreed is crucial. Otherwise, if youre going to fight for sole custody, then so be it.

I'm not sure it works the same in the UK but I don't think we have to do the custody legally unless there's an issue. He's told me he will see the kids Monday's and Wednesday's and every other weekend although not which weekend that will be and this maybe affected by his work. He has plans this weekend, is working the one after and I got the impression busy the one after that but not 100% sure. I don't feel this is fair on me or the kids as surely if he's working on the weekend he should be seeing them he should swap, if convenient for me obviously. He's coming tonight but I plan to be out and for him to leave when I get back but I may discuss this with him.

Well, first Id stop worrying about OW...She isnt your concern at the moment. My question to you is what does it matter what the date is? Why is it crucial to wait a week? I get that there is a week of school - but wont doing it the first week of summer vacation put a damper on the summer? etc. What is your fundamental issue?

Whilst it will be the start of the summer holidays for the first time ever I will not be at work. They will be with me 24/7 so if they need to talk, need support I am with them. Equally I can see with my own eyes that they are OK and for the sake of a week I thought that was better for them.

So, what are you going to do to transition yourself to act based on logic/reason vs. emotion/what 'feels OK'? If your boundary is that you arent going to be in a relationship with a man thats sleeping with someone else, how does this back up your words?

You are absolutely right I need to stop any physical contact.

Lets spin this out....

If he announces to them that he is leaving you and dating OW, will you still do these days?

That was my question. I don't plan for them to know about OW yet as I think it's too much for them to process. My S10 has pretty strong values and I don't want these destroying. They don't need to know abut OW yet.

What if you are divorced and he is dating

What if you are divorced and he is remarried to OW?

Where do you draw the line that these days are 'not good' for the kids anymore?

To me, it sounds like you are making excuses, because you think that with enough quality time, you can 'beat' OW.

I suppose at some point H will not want to do these days anymore, maybe I won't or OW will put a stop to it. My question was what is right for the kids? I genuinely don't think spending family time will win him back he's already moved on.

H phoned to speak to the kids last night and was fine had a brief chat with me then spoke to them but they weren't really interested as they were playing in the garden. He then came back to me and said he will be back tonight for football but didn't know what time as he had to do something for work that he wasn't happy about. Usually when he makes excuses he's lying but I'm not going to worry about it I'll be there so that's fine I'll just wait until he gets there to leave.

He then called back a bit later and asked me if OW's husband had been in contact with me as somebody had said something. I said no and asked who had said something, he wouldn't tell me anymore and I ended the call.

I have had a really bad 2 days and I feel better today. I'm concerned that I feel better because I've had that call and if her H finds out what's going on it doesn't fit in with her plans at all.

I need to paint doors so I can get this house on the market and do something for me. I fixed the leaking sink last night that he has been trying to fix for months :-)

The painting depressed me as my reasons for doing it have changed from it being for us and our home to being to sell the house because H has left and that made me angry and sad.

Going out tonight and then need to talk to H about when exactly he is going to see the kids.

Okay, I'm going to be a little blunt and probably should folllow my own advice here ...

But he's TELLING you he's involved with someone else and you're still talking to him? He's asking you about his GIRLFRIENDS husband and you are even indulging him in giving him an answer?

I think you need to stand up for yourself and WHEN. He starts talking about anything that has to do with Ow or anything you know is a lie. Stop him right there and end the conversation.

You are not his friend. You are his W... don't let him treat you like a buddy

Oh and you can't make him see the kids. Don't ask him when he's going to see them it may come off as you trying to control him and the situation.

Make a schedule you both can agree on --- I haven't done this yet. I've been a doormat and he just comes and goes as he pleases. It's something I need to change but I will say we aren't waiting around for him. When he chooses to be here we go about our business as if we never know when he will or won't be around.

Originally Posted By: T384

Okay, I'm going to be a little blunt and probably should folllow my own advice here ...

But he's TELLING you he's involved with someone else and you're still talking to him? He's asking you about his GIRLFRIENDS husband and you are even indulging him in giving him an answer?

I think you need to stand up for yourself and WHEN. He starts talking about anything that has to do with Ow or anything you know is a lie. Stop him right there and end the conversation.

You are not his friend. You are his W... don't let him treat you like a buddy

Have to agree with this im afraid.

Hey thanks for dropping by. I have actually done this tonight. He was late for the kids AGAIN. I had a lovely evening with my friend and he left when I got back but he wanted to talk so I told him to call me from the car. He said we can still talk, I told him we have no reason to talk apart from the kids and he said we should talk. I told him I will email him about finances but I had no reason to talk to him other than the kids. We have agreed to tell the kids on Monday night and agreed that he is not going to tell them about OW, they don't need to know that yet. Thanks again I will check out you're thread tomorrow.

SJx

I wouldn't cover for him with the kids. Kids aren't dumb and they're going to know eventually ... if he won't tell them about OW I understand you not wanting to push too much on them but don't let him act like this was a joint decision ...make sure they know this was dads decision.

When he asks to talk next time just say H you've chose to leave and your with OW. Short of the kids or bills there's nothing to discuss. If it's legal have your L contact mine. Bye!

You don't neee to keep saying the same thing we don't need to talk over and over because he will see through it.

I notice that you often seem to be validating his behavior, instead of his feelings.

It's not OK if he's late picking up the kids, or doesn't come when he's said he would. He's behaving abysmally.

Even if a written custody requirement isn't legally required, I think you would benefit from having one. It will force him to explicitly state how often he plans to see the kids and when. And be specific. Not two weekends a month, for example, but the first and third weekends fro Friday at 6 to Sunday at 5, or whatever.

I agree about getting tougher on what you won't talk about and clarity re the kids. Also I think to be clear with the kids that this is Dad's decision not yours without going into details. I suppose I think there is a 'trickle truth' issue here...is it easier for the kids to know their Dad has OW now or easier if they find out later? What are the chances of them finding out accidentally or from other kids? You know your kids best.

Agree about validating his feelings but not behaviour...he seems to have a 'Game of Thrones' mentality really when he sort of 'forgets' he has fired you from being his wife and part of his support team...nope, you and the kids are your own team now. His choice, his consequences. The OW's H stuff...or the OW...do not discuss it and if her H contacts you, refuse to discuss it too. Your H is creating WTF drama in his own life - part of MLC fun I think - but it isn't your WTF.

Well done on the sink too! And the painting...think of it as a downpayment on the next home you and your kids will have and be calm and happy in...maybe with H, maybe not. I think you're doing fantastically well and adapting really quickly to an awful situation. You probably don't feel that way, but you are and you should be proud of yourself.

Hi

I don't want the kids to know about OW yet as I feel it is too much for them to deal with in one hit. I have made it clear to him that he needs to tell them that this is his decision and not ours. It is not going to be an easy conversation for lots of reasons but it needs to happen in order for me to detach from him.

I am also definitely going to stop talking to him as you say.

SJ x

Hi Treasur

I don't feel like I'm doing at all well I've been hiding under the duvet most of the day but just had a long chat with my Mum and so feel a little better.

There is no chance of kids finding out from anywhere but me or H and I feel that it's too much in one hit. My S10 has very strong values about marriage and it would destroy that to think that Daddy is leaving for OW. They will have to find out at some point if this lala fantasy continues but by then we should be in a much better place I can prepare them.

I think I've realised whilst hiding under the duvet that I have been facilitating him since BD and spinning a lot so in essence whilst I feel I've done some DBing I haven't done enough. Once the kids know this will be much easier as I won't have to be around when Daddy is and they will know why. He's been cake eating to a degree and I have allowed that thinking it was right for them but in actual fact H will stop wanting family stuff at some point so better that I make that decision now, not him later.

I need to detach as you said and that starts with a complete 180 for me, not talking to him. He has nobody else so that will hit him. I need to stop family time and facilitating him by letting him stay at the house when he sees the kids. He needs to see the full reality of his choice and I suspect that will result in him seeing less of the kids but that will be his choice. I know men that would move heaven and earth to spend time with their kids my H used to one of them but now if it's not easy he just won't do it and no doubt blame me. Not my problem my kids have lived through 6 and 7 months of Daddy being away so no different for them because they will always have Mummy and our great close friends network who all have kids that are friends.

I am very happy about the sink I have to say :-)

SJx

Thanks Rose that's great advice. Coming here today and seeing the comments is such a great help and support and the advice is spot on.

Hi SJ,

I know this might sound confusing but I don't think anybody on here wants you to stop all communication with your WS. What you need to do is be smart about it, I assume you've answered the question whether you want your M anymore? If you want to fight for your M then communication MUST happen BUT as I say it has to be smart.

DON'T PURSUE EVER, he has to come to you to talk and when he does YOU need to make it as though you�ve moved on and are only interested in conversations that revolve around either business related matters (bills, mortgage etc.) your children and the logistics that you need for GAL�ing and visitations and of course reconciliation DON�T EVER PUSH THIS THOUGH.

When he initiates the conversation I would basically show him a person who is happy where she is in life, willing to listen and validate and just be a friend to him and of course his safe place. I say this only if you want to save the M as you are now having to show him your best you, someone who he must have been crazy to leave.

If he starts to move the conversation onto his relationship with the AP/LO or a subject you know will escalate into who can shout the loudest then I suggest you tell him to leave, normally these sorts of conversations creep up on us so I suggest you research �charging neutral� also.

Please SJ detach as much as you can, stick up for yourself and work on being the best you, you can be. Look after the kids and stay strong.

Mark.

Now you're cooking! As parkema says, you don't need to not talk to him at all...and actually you can't because of the kids and money, but on your terms now. No more enabling. No more emotion shown to him or R talks. Calm, practical, detached...and start making a GAL plan which is more fun than DIY!

You can have the odd duvet day, of course you can - this is a s**t situation and you are allowed to feel how you feel. Time for you and time for the kids now - let him stew and start dealing with the practical effects of his own choices.

Hi Mark

I don't intend to stop talking to him completely but will do exactly what you say keep it to kids and bills. He called last night and I had a conversation with him about DO getting star of the week but the school hadn't emailed me to let me know so I wasn't at the assembly and was really upset. He said it was such a shame as I have always done everything possibly to attend all special assembly's and knows how much it means to me.

I have just come back from S's leavers assembly from primary school, very emotional. H should have been there but has chosen to be with OW instead. However I am forcing myself not to focus on this but imagine he is working instead as he has been in the past for such occasions.

Thanks
SJ

Looking for some practical advice on the time he spends with the kids. He says he wants to see them every other weekend. He has nowhere to take them to sleep as he lives in a one man room in the barracks. I don't want him staying in the house when I'm here but that would me staying at friends every other weekend if he stays here with them. Before you all start telling me off I know this is his problem but I'm thinking of the kids. If I tell him he can only stay at the house if I am going out and not coming back it is going to be virtually impossible for him to have them for a weekend.

Thoughts please?

He's a dad. He needs to get living space that can accommodate his children for overnights.

Or he can take them to a hotel, which would be cheaper, since we're only talking two nights a month.

Originally Posted By: SJW

He says he wants to see them every other weekend. He has nowhere to take them to sleep as he lives in a one man room in the barracks.

I agree with Rose. If wants to have them overnight, then its on him to figure out a place for them to sleep. I did have a nesting arrangement with my ex where we took turns in our home, but I dont see that being a particularly reasonable option on an 85-25 kind of split.

Id say if he doesnt have anywhere to take them, propose going out and then he can leave when you get home at an agreed on time. Id also stipulate that if hes late, that the kids may or may not still be there as you arent going to put your life on hold waiting around for him to show up next time.

Remember he has fired you from being on his support team...this is his problem to figure out and solve. Keep your boundary right now, maybe temper it by saying the two of you can review it in a couple of months...but right now, he has created the situation that causes the challenge. Please let him suffer some of his own consequences. In a funny way, it is about respect....treating him as an adult who is responsible for clearing up his own mess and respect for yourself to detach enough that you leave him to it.

Thanks guys. That is what I was thinking but just wanted some affirmation that I wasn't being mean and just trying to make things difficult as that is how he will see it. He has said before it isn't fair to expect me to stay with friends when he has them. The first weekend won't be an issue as the kids have nothing on and he can take them to his Mum's which although a distance away is near my Mum's and I was going to take them up that week so I can just meet them there on the Sunday night or Monday. After that he's got a problem with DO playing football Saturday mornings and S on Sunday mornings but as you say these are the consequences of his actions.

That said OW doesn't like him staying at our house as she can't be sure whether I'm here or not, obviously their R isn't built on trust, lol. Or is that bad DBing on my part? I wouldn't be here I would stay with my friend but she won't know that.

When my H and I were first married and did not live in the same town as his kids, he would drive and get them every other weekend, then drive them back on Sundays. But he got them from Thursday after school until Sunday nights. So on that Thursday night, he would stay in a hotel with them. They loved it! I remember one year at Easter he was SO upset b/c D, then 7, needed to take 2 boiled eggs to school with her on Friday morning and he didn't have a way to provide that in a hotel. So he worked it so the hotel manager ran to HIS OWN house, boiled 2 eggs and brought them back for her to have. Things have a way of working out when the Daddy is committed to making it work.

DEFINITELY not your problem!

Hi Leah

That is a great Dad. Will my H do this stuff I doubt it very much but first he has to understand what is required in terms of his R with the kids from his choice and that is something up to now I haven't fully made him realise.

Thanks for stopping by.

SJx

I think I had something of an epiphany overnight, who knows it may only last today but if it does it one day not under the duvet!

My S left primary school yesterday and almost grew up in front of my eyes. Him and his friends cried and hugged at their leavers party and he said to my friends younger S, It takes a man to be able to show his emotions, crying is nothing to be ashamed of. I thought my heart would actually burst there and then. He had also shown so much compassion to another child earlier in the day and demonstrated what a kind, sensitive, caring young man he is becoming. The other Mum who I don't really know too well messaged me telling me what a credit my S is to me, so very proud.

We got up late this morning and were making pancakes together when H rang, I was not expecting that. Last time he had a clothing free weekend with OW we didn't hear from him as he said it didn't feel right to call. Maybe a stab of conscious for missing his S's last day yesterday, who knows and actually who cares. He asked Sif he went to cricket last night and S was genuinely shocked, he said no Daddy it was my leavers assembly. I was furious.

H got on the phone to me and asked about the assembly at church and the party. I gave him details and told him there were lots of pics on FB, he asked what I did, I didn't reply, he then asked what we were doing today and I said we had lots of plans. He asked if the kids were OK I said yes and tried to end the call, he said I'll call in the morning or something, I said OK bye.

I was pleasant, gave lots of info on the kids but not about me. I feel pretty good and a little indifferent to a person that can put OW before his S. I was there and experienced all of that pride, his choice meant that he missed out and he will never, ever get a re run of that day, his loss I say :-)

The kids are playing out with friends and the house is so empty. I'm keeping busy but it keeps creeping into my mind that this is the time that H and I could have started to do things without the kids. We've worked hard and spent all our time with them and now they are getting a bit older it was going to get easier it's so sad.

I am also dreading tomorrow night when he tells them it's all consuming and I just want to hit fast forward to them knowing and him being out of the house so I know what I'm dealing with in terms of their feelings and emotions.

Anyway best make the most of them being out and get the finances emailed to him, that is not going to go down well!

Hi SJ,

Loving the attitude, relieving him of his family responsibilities due to his behaviour and the fact he sees his AP/LO as his primary focus is great. What will he do? Eventually he will want to know about all the things he's missing out on it might not be for a while but rest assured it will come.

Until then let them spend as much time together as they want this will only escalate the fog lifting and the reality of their actions hit home then who knows the cracks might appear but will you be bothered? I personally feel my sitch is just a little more advanced than yours probably a month or so and its interesting to see how much similarities there are!

I am finding it hard to truly let go but the longer this goes on the easier it gets BUT I feel every time I allow her to come back into my life I go back a month or so so really am trying to fully detach.

Remember when you HAVE to communicate be that confident happy person who's getting on with her life and not giving a jot about what WS and his AP/LO are doing.

Have fun and well done.

Mark.

H has not been in contact since yesterday morning although he said he would ring the kids today. I emailed him the entire financial situation this afternoon which wasn't pretty for him but I am also not ripping him off.

I have spent a whole week dreading him telling the kids tomorrow night and this weekend has just made me so angry I am actually thinking about telling the kids myself. My H is not my H anymore and I have no idea if he ever will be or if I could go back from this. He is certainly not the Daddy he was and I honestly believe if he could spend every single moment with OW he would and justify it with the fact that being in the army the kids are used to him not being around. I feel like he is only seeing the kids out of duty unless he can take them to his fantasy land which emotionally for them isn't right and practically is impossible.

So do I tell them rather than keep making myself ill while I wait for him to turn up or not tomorrow night with no plan of what he is going to say and then leave me with the fallout? If I tell them I can deal with their reaction and emotions as they have always had me and have always been very open emotionally with me and then if he comes back he can answer questions or take them out as that is the way it is going to be moving forward. I just want to do what's best for them and me.

Hi SJ,

For me when the time came to tell my boys I made sure the WW was there also, I would definitely NOT allow him to tell the boys himself as there could be a diluting or distortion of the truth you need to be there.

Again you on your own can be looked on as potentially doing the same to him in his eyes so get him sat down and face the consequences of his actions. I feel it doesn't matter how this pans out your kids will be affected I am seeing more and more anger and ill discipline from S8. This has to be handled correctly with the main focus on the kids and not the A, really hard times for you but stay committed to doing the best for them and continuing to show how great a mum you are.

Take care.

Mark.

I agree with parkema. Tell them together partly so the kids see that and also because your H needs to carry the reality of his own choices. You will have plenty of time afterwards as it starts to sink in with the kids, because they will ask you questions. The advice here seems to be to keep it as simple as you can without going into mega-detail but to be truthful too in a way that is age appropriate.

I'm sorry. I can't imagine how hard it must be to know that you have to do this. But please remember - this is happening because of your H's choices and you are not to blame for it as their mum. Your job - and you're a great mum, so you can do this - is to be as big and strong an umbrella for them while the storm is raging xxx

H called this morning as if everything is normal. Asked what the kids were doing and asked about what I had been doing over the weekend. Told him about the kids nothing about me. He was about to go and I asked him if he was still planning to tell the kids tonight. He asked me if I wanted him to? I said if you are a million percent certain then yes, he said he is so we debated what he was going to say. He accused me again of telling him what to do when I said he could not say we were simply splitting up as none of this is my choice. I asked when he would see them after tonight and he said he was working at the weekend and had plans the one after. I knew that was coming as it's OW's child free weekend but H told me last week he would have the kids for the first time that weekend, I reminded him and said I had made plans, he asked me what and where!! He then said I don't speak to him about anything I simply said I talk to you about the kids and have emailed you about finances as it's too complicated to discuss over the phone. He says he has nowhere to take the kids and started having a go at me. I ended the call politely.

5 minutes later he calls back and literally launches into a complete tirade about money and he hasn't got any and how do I expect him to live on what he has left. I told him as per the email that is what my solicitor had told me and I was being vindictive I was trying to be fair. He then says why have you seen a solicitor I thought we would do that together, OMG is he actually for real. I explained he needed to get his own solicitor if he wanted to check his rights as mine could not act for both of us. I told him he would need to budget and quite frankly I could not be the one to be having this conversation with he needed to find someone else to speak to. I remained civil throughout and declined to respond to certain things he said. His wages go into my bank account and he said last month he was going to change this to his own which he hasn't because I haven't done it for him no doubt. He has now said that as of next month his wages will go in his own account and he will give me what he can afford. He can't afford to do anything with the kids so doesn't know when he will see them after tonight, pathetic specimen of a father. I couldn't speak to my solicitor today but I have until next month to see where I stand if he carries out his threat.

He does have to pay about 2/3 of his wages whilst we still have the house but he does have a good amount of surplus income left more than a lot of people. I am absolutely furious but also dreading tonight. He'll be back in about an hour. I just want it over with so I know what the kids are going to need from me and him out of the house.

Thanks Mark and Treasur I agree he should tell them and I should be there, he doesn't want me in the room.

He's done it told them after 45 minutes of asking me to still be his friend and crying! H asked me not to cry when he told them which I didn't, I was in the room and he actually didn't tell them he made it sound like he was just going to be away more for work so I had to tell them. DO laughed asked him why and was being silly. S cried. H said to S shall we go out for a bit I said what about DO. I asked them if they wanted to stay and talk or go out with Daddy and they wanted to go out. I text him about half an hour later and said let me know when you're on your way back he replied yeah course you OK. I didn't respond.

They got back with the biggest bags of sweets and S went to his room and DO was watched TV with H. I was in another room ironing. Put DO to bed and she asked for both of us to take her up which we did and then I asked him to leave. He said S was fine and left DO had already said you're going to see us Mondays and Wednesdays so I'll see you Wednesday Daddy.

After he left I went to S and he broke down we talked and he asked for my 2 best friends to come round so I arranged that, got my brother to text him and asked him what he was thinking. He said he was sad about leaving primary school on Friday and was worrying about that and now he had to worry about this. I told him he didn't have to worry about anything he just needed to talk to Mummy or Daddy or my brother or Grandma or our friends. I told him Daddy loves him and so does Mummy.

My friends came round played and talked, not about the sitch just about whatever he wanted to talk about and he was laughing at text messages from my bother. He wanted to sleep with me to start with but then said he wanted to go in his own bed and is sound asleep for now.

H not a word since he left no text to see how they are nothing, despicable.

Day out planned for tomorrow and we will be fine I will make sure of it.

Hi SJ,

I'm so sorry.

At least it�s out and now you can start the process of making sure the kids� lives remain as stable as possible. My original thread was about limerence and how it affects people�s lives, I mention this as even though these days seem like the darkest there can be hope IF you want your M to continue (the more time goes by I have my doubt regarding mine!)

I know you�re strong and will be okay, you will get through this no doubts.

If I can make you feel any better maybe it�s with this thought: limerence is a process, it basically has three phases.
1. Infatuation � the �we are meant for each other� �there is no one else who could possibly make me feel this way� stage where god himself stands no chance of getting through to them!
2. Crystallisation � the settling down stage where bonding happens, don�t get in there way at this stage as you ARE the enemy. These people just see each other and are blinkered to everything else even in some circumstances their own children.
3. Deterioration � when reality sets in and the cracks start to appear, this is when if you�ve been doing all your DR�ing right and have been showing him this happy, confident person who has moved on from fantasy world and getting on with her own life is the time for reflection and possible reconciliation.

I�m told limerence as to end so drop the rope look after your kids and yourself, be the best you you can be but remember for yourself NOT HIM and detach from his mental state. Better for you and better for your children. Whilst you�re concentrated on this he will be playing out his fantasy (can�t stop this) and eventually work through the process until reality kicks in and who know what will happen then�

You really need to be supportive now for your S&D and I�ve no doubt you have this covered, hide your sadness, cry behind closed doors and show them that happy fun loving mummy who is addictive to be around everything else will take care of itself.

Can only get better, take care.

Mark.

Hi Mark

The fact that he has hurt my children in the worst possible way has put me in a much different place. I always knew they came first but now it is all about them and I am doing everything in my power to keep things 'normal'. It is different as I'm not working which they have never had, they're used to Daddy not being around so it's manageable only problem is he keeps popping up.

He's been so angry with me since Monday and anything and everything is my fault. I've managed to hold my tongue so far but there's only so much you can take when none of this is my fault. I have even backed down on the weekend he said he would have the kids and then reneged on because it really doesn't matter to me that much to have it thrown in my face and I just can't be bothered I've got more important things to do. He has nobody, literally nobody but OW he tells me he's not going to sneak around and hide things but hasn't even told his Mum.

I do prefer this angry disappointed feeling to the one not being able to get out of bed and I do intend to do everything I am doing for me and the kids. I do want my M but this man that he has become.

My DO questioned me about Monday nights conversation last night. She had told nanny in the morning that Daddy was going to be working more but we weren't separated. She asked me if we had had an argument and were splitting up, I asked if she hadn't understood what was said and she said not really. I explained that adults sometimes have to make choices for themselves that didn't always make everyone else happy, that Daddy loved her and S very much but he didn't want to live with Mummy anymore. She asked if that was what I wanted, I said no but Daddy is a grown up and that's his choice. Her response,8 years old....."Well that's a bit selfish" I think I have very perceptive 8 year old.

I've asked him to meet for coffee publicly this afternoon before seeing the kids so we can try and have a conversation about the holidays without him having a go at me. He's running late so not sure if this is going to happen and then he'll have a go at me about not talking??

I feel like he needs me as his support and friend because he has nobody else but he also hates me for that. When I tell him that he needs to talk to someone else because he basically sacked me from that role when BD'd (I don't say that bit to him)he gets all nasty and calls me controlling??

I think the reality isn't quite what he thought it was going to be and I will just continue to get on with my life with my amazing children and support network for me and for them. We have lots to look forward to and he will miss out as he already has.

We did meet and it was more of the same from him although more H than alien. He apologised for keep having a go at me and said he feels so guilty and has nobody else to take it out on. I told him he sacked me as his support network when he BD'd and I will amicably discuss arrangements for the kids but he needs to give me a proper fixed schedule. Told him what I would like in terms of which was my weekend and he was fine with that although he won't be seeing the kids for the next 3 weekends and didn't see them the last one!!

We discussed money and I said if he couldn't afford to pay all of half the mortgage what could he afford but he said no he would pay and knew he would be in debt regardless. I gave him the option of not paying half the mortgage but it coming out of his share of the equity but he didn't want to do that said he would just use his credit card. He's obviously had legal advise since Monday and has to suck it up! He said to me I just want to make you aware that I have no money and I am going to be in debt and I know that's my choice but I just wanted you to be aware. I said I knew that as I have always done the finances I was well aware of his position and he said well I just want you to know it's no bed of roses. OMG I could have actually slapped him and said my heart F***ing bleeds!!!

He came home from our meet and I went out with friends. When I got back he had been tidying up which made me feel very uncomfortable and was actually coming out of my bedroom as I went upstairs to put my jacket away. We put DO to bed, she asked for us both to do it and was asking H a lot of questions about where he was going to be at the weekend but looking at me, that girl is one smart cookie, he was squirming and she knew it.

Once she was in bed I said to H that I wasn't comfortable with him tidying and being in my room as although this was still his house it was no longer his home as he didn't live here anymore. He got a bit sh***y saying so I can't come here anymore then, I said you can to see the kids but nothing more. He then stormed out and told S he was going. He came back into me and I told him he was doing it again and he shouldn't leave S because he was angry. He said I know you're already seeing someone else but that's nothing to do with me and I'm sorry for having a go at you I know it's my doing. He then left very sheepishly after handing me a load of cash for S's Birthday present and some tickets for S's Birthday evening. I guess he's worked out he can draw cash on his credit card Oh dear for him.

I don't know if I feel stronger because the kids know now and I'm focused on them and the summer and getting the house sold. Or, if it's because he's finally having a reality check, no money, no family time or support from me and nothing or nobody else, can't even speak to his own Mum. Maybe a bit of both but I do know now the kids know my focus is most definitely on me and them and GAL for the 3 of us and of course one for me without them within reason.

I do want my M but not how it is or even how it was. I may or may not get the chance and I know I am only a very, very short way into this.

Wow, hats off to you. Super brave mama lioness that you are. You handled that like a queen!

Received the following text this morning, I haven't responded, should I. Part of me wants to just say thanks, part of me wants to say how many times do I have to tell you I am no longer your friend and another part of me just wants to ignore it??

'Hope you all have a nice day. Just want to get on with you babe sorry about yesterday'

Ignore it would be my call. Focus on you and what works best for you right now

Hi SJ,

You�ve come such a long way well done.

'Hope you all have a nice day. Just want to get on with you babe sorry about yesterday'
I really don�t know what to advise here has its never happened to me.

On these boards it mentions temperature checking and him touching base to see if you�re still a viable option if the A goes sour, but if he gets a positive response from you here I�m told he�ll probably see this as �hey I can go back to her any time I like, this is great I can have the AP/LO AND my W..� How long do you think he will carry this on for?

I feel you are overtaking me regarding working through the stages of limerence as I see what you have put in place is having a major impact to his life, I envy you and congratulate you. Please don�t backslide when he puts all this pressure back onto you remember IT�S NOT YOUR FAULT.
You are quite right in that he will have a very limited support structure to go to as us men don�t tend to be as open with other men so he will have only 2 options.
1. Come to you for support whilst having all the benefits of an AP/LO in tow.
2. Go to the AP/LO for support, this is a GOOD thing! A�s remain successful due to the lack of responsibility that�s involved, they basically live a life of absolute ease BUT when one has to face the realities of finances and day-to-day issues such as somewhere to live it burst the fantasy bubble. Do you think the AP/LO will support him through all this?
Once he sees there is little she wants in him that she faces normally and the R starts to experience these kinds of pressures the cracks start to drive the wedge between them and they get further and further apart until SNAP the fantasy is gone. What next?

I�ve a feeling he will pursue you a lot more going forward BUT to see if you remain a viable second choice, don�t be second choice. I think you know what you need from him to bring him back to the M and you must stick to that, continue to do what you�re doing and remain detached from him it�s having an impact.
Look after your kids but it seems they�re looking after you and that�s great mine are the same and it amazes me with the amount of wisdom that comes from them. Its true Dr�ing thinking with a beginner�s mind and I listen to them as much as I can.

Well done and take care.

Mark.

I would imagine there is nothing harder than a parent having to watch their child addicted to a deadly drug (heroin, crack, etc.), and no matter how much they try and help their child, they just keep using. Experts say that if you enable the child by offering them help when they need it, a place to crash when they can't pay their rent, etc., the longer they are able to carry on with their addiction. The child will not want to change, until they hit rock bottom and reality sets in. It's hard to get reality to set in when the drug covers up so much of real life, so it's gotta get bad for them to want to change.

Your H is in a state much like a drug addict. He wants to do what he wants, but he still wants your support, sympathy, love, etc., to make his fantasy easier when he's not high and facing reality.

Your H is starting to face reality, the things that he's doing shows that when he is not receiving the high from OW, hes reaching out to you, but when he's with her, he will stay silent forever.

Don't be there to support him when he wants you to, be there for him when he's changed and you want to be there. I'm curious as to why you were even considering responding to that text. He didn't ask a question, he wasn't discussing anything to do with spending time with the children, or anything else that would be important for you to respond.

As I understand it, a physically abusive husband will often beat the crap out of his wife one night, and then show remorse the next day.. Unfortunately many wives use that remorse as a reason to stay, as it somehow makes up for the beating. Don't be that person, accept an apology when he treats you well and does the right thing, all the time. Until then, just stay back and let him hit rock bottom.

SJ, I can't remember if you've retained a lawyer yet but you might want to consider it. If your H is racking up CC debt then that COULD come back to haunt you in the D. You may need to be documenting this somehow so you can demonstrate the debt is is post-separation and not part of the martial assets/ debts. The only way to sort that out is with a lawyer. Good luck and hang in there!

Hi Guys

Thanks all for stopping by, sorry I've not posted we've been really busy. I reached angry last Friday when H didn't attend S's last day of primary school and angry is a much better place than where I was. Yes I am still heartbroken and hurting but I am managing it better. The next wave was him telling the kids and he had already got an inkling by that point that I was detaching from him. I know his aggression towards me is his own guilt he has admitted that when he is lucid and reasonable and then just attacks me again. I am also managing this better and telling him that none of this is my fault and he needs to stop taking it out on me then ending the call or conversation politely if it continues.

DO has started to talk and write her feelings down. She wrote him a letter today which is very astute for an 8 year old. She told him that she knew that it was his choice but she didn't like or understand his choice when Mummy has a snazzy new haircut, lol (I had my hair extensions out yesterday and my hair cut shorter than I've had it for about 15 years).

The way I see his sitch currently is he's on a boat on the rapids with OW and it was new and exciting whilst he had me as his life jacket. I have removed the life jacket this week and he is now panicking. I still want my H and my M but currently that is not an option so I am working on me and the kids and having fun with friends he turns up when he turns up and does the odd temperature check which I don't respond to. I am nobody's back up plan. He's allegedly working this weekend so we should have a peaceful one and he's told the kids he will see them Monday.

AS don't worry I have a solicitor and everything he is doing is in his name and I am fully protected.

SJ

You rock!

I love the life jacket metaphor. How appropriate. Mine won't take his off. I'm moving it further away.

You have to take it off him.

I typed quite a long post yesterday as the anger has subsided into what I can only describe as feeling overwhelmed with it all.

I broke down Monday night after he left and had to go to a friends. My Mum has come to stay for a few days at DO's request, she's still not talking though and if asked she just says there's no point Daddy's had a chat with us.

I struggling. This time 11 years ago I was in labour with our S, our first born and it was the two of us starting our family following our M. Today I'm sitting with a heavy heart dreading him coming back tonight as every time I see him he looks like my H but he isn't.

I need to pull myself up and get smiling. We are meeting for coffee to discuss S's Birthday tomorrow, yes I was in labour for 25 hours, the school holidays and when he will be having them and where and also the house and getting it on the market. He needs to make some time to help me with this as it is physically impossible for me whilst looking after 2 kids who are off school. If he can't won't then I will have to pay someone and it will have to come out of the proceeds of the sale.

He's staying here tonight as it's S's Birthday tomorrow I allowed it for S. My Mum is here but she has been fine with him for the kids sake but still it's awkward and all I want to do is run away. I wish I was still angry I felt like I could move a mountain last week.

My post yesterday didn't submit as I am having issues with my computer. Something else to add to the ever increasing things to do list.

Hi SJ,

We LBS also have our rollercoaster ride to contend with and last week you were at the back of the queue this week it�s your turn�

I recently celebrated our S8 birthday BUT my WW was nowhere to be seen, his brother and I took him to watch a film he wanted to watch and had a birthday dinner at night all without his mum there! This aided me in two different ways.
1. Imagine the impact it had with my WW not being with her family when we were �celebrating� a major event.
2. Demonstrated to her that she had given up the right to be a family due to her actions.

Don�t get me wrong I�m not the sort to be vengeful and I�m sure she celebrated his birthday with him AND the AP/LO but again no more MNG, we went out and GAL�ed as a family minus mum and she was left to her own devices.
You mention you are willing for your WS to stay the night due to a birthday he must be happy about this? How do you feel? How does your mum really feel?
IMHO the only winner here is your WS and I of course understand that you feel it best for your S. How would you feel if something �better� cropped up say the AP/LO made alternate plans on the same night? Do you think he�d say �sorry I�m spending the night at my BS house and being with my boy on his birthday� if that is the case then your situation has just turn the corner. What do you really think would happen if he was given that option?

What I�m trying to say is maybe you should say to him can you arrange to HAVE S the day after his birthday as I have plans for the kids and I that doesn�t involve you.
SJ you also need to prepare yourself for the AP/LO being part of your children�s lives, we can�t control this unless done legally. There was no way for me to stop him getting involved with my boys and this is possibly now the worst thing I face about my situation.

Again this is my view and I know everybody�s situation is different and only YOU can choose what to do for the best.

Take care.

Mark.

I haven�t posted for a couple of weeks partly because it just been more of the same from H and partly because I�ve been so busy trying to get the house ready to put on the market.

I took the kids away for a few days to the seaside last Friday and we hadn�t heard from H in nearly a week. I knew he was abroad with OW although he hadn�t told me, he said he was working. He text Friday night asking if we had arrived and we exchanged a few texts about the following week as he was having the kids. I asked if he could call the following day as I was busy, he asked if he could speak to the kids so I told him to ring S�s phone, he rang mine. I gave it straight to my S to answer and then he passed to DO who then brought it back to me with him still on the line. I politely told him I was busy and could he call tomorrow, he agreed.
Saturday afternoon he rang and we had a very friendly and civilised chat about the kids and about the arrangements for the coming week. H went off the phone and within an hour after no activity on social media for over a week a picture is posted of him and OW on his FB page, his Mum rang me asking me what he was playing at so fortunately I didn�t see it. Sunday evening H calls S�s phone and speaks to both kids which was fine and they went to play out and I was just sat watching them and he called me. So in hindsight 3 phone calls in 3 days when he�s supposedly on a dream holiday should have been a good sign but I was so wrapped up in the fact that they were abroad together and he�d lied to me I completely missed it. It was obvious as soon as I answered that something was wrong and this is where I monumentally F�$%ked up. I dropped straight into concerned wife mode asking him what had happened, what on earth was the matter and he broke down. He said he couldn�t do it any more, he missed the kids, I told him that it was his choice and he could see them whenever he wanted. He said he didn�t want to have them at his Mum�s he wanted to come �home�. I said that wasn�t possible as I had plans and he had made his choice and he said he had made a mistake and had ended it with OW. This is where it goes horribly wrong, I lost it and I mean lost it big time. It was like a steam train rushing through my head he told our kids 3 weeks ago, has barely seen them since and I have had to manage their emotions every single day and now he�s �changed his mind�. I mentioned the pic on FB and he told me she had done it following our telephone conversation and he would remove it, which he did. He got it both barrels part of which was me telling him he couldn�t come home because I didn�t want him after what he�s done. I was so angry and now I regret it so much but can�t turn the clock back, if only I�d handled it differently.
I dropped the kids at his Mum�s Monday evening just before he arrived as I didn�t want to see him and he was texting Monday night but I stopped it after a couple. Tuesday afternoon I get a phone call from my DO on my S�s phone, �Mummy there�s something you need to know, Daddy�s got a GF!� I nearly passed out, I asked her how she knew and she said he and S were looking at some pictures on his phone and messages came up from OW. I asked them if they were OK and said we would talk when they got home. I took a little while to gather myself then called H. We chatted about what they had been doing and after a couple of minutes it was obvious he didn�t know so I told him and he asked how, I told him and said I thought he was completely irresponsible and he agreed. He said that he realised he had let the kids down during all of this and it wouldn�t happen again, he asked me if I wanted him to talk to them I said no and if they mentioned it to tell them we would discuss it when they were back home with Mummy and Daddy. He asked when he could bring them back and I said we had agreed Sunday but he said they want to come home but you won�t let me stay so how is that going to work. I said if they really wanted to come home then he would have to bring them and sort himself out. That�s when he started having a go at me about money, the house, what I�m doing, where I�m going, why do I have to make him feel guilty every time we speak. He doesn�t know where I am or what I�m doing but I know everything about him. Why is he bothered about what I�m doing?
Since then I have downward spiralled, I went out with friends last night and couldn�t stop crying and had to come home early. I know I need to get busy but just can�t find the motivation. I know I need to put my guard back up and hopefully I will get another opportunity like Sunday but handle it better. I just feel so low I can�t stop crying and just want to crawl under the duvet and not come out.

Sweetie - you got angry, well that will be because you're human etc...

DB-phooey - you're allowed to make mistakes and if he's serious, then he needs to not think it all gets rugswept. Not that you want to hang him up publicly by his bits (although you might sometimes!) but that changing course is a serious step and - newsflash - it isn't just about him.

Sounds like a) breathing and b) go dim and let him stew a bit is no bad thing. Also gives you time to think about what you really want and how to respond rather than react based on your (understandable) emotions.

If it is just a temp check/word blah moment he's having...he'll do nothing and drop right back. If he is serious, he'll think and realise that it isn't easy for either of you and he'll try again. Then you can do the DB-y thing...but you are NOT responsible for him feeling guilty, only for whether you are smacking him round the head with it.

He's bringing the kids back tomorrow now and I am out overnight tomorrow night and Saturday. As much as I don't want to see him I desperate to see the kids so won't have a choice. The thought of him back in the house after more than 2 weeks bothers me a little and his talk of doing stuff makes me feel a little like it's not your place to anymore it's my home, if that makes sense?

I think the struggle for me is not having had a choice and when it looked like I might I blew it.

I am sick of him telling me to stop making him feel guilty, like I said to him only he can stop himself feeling guilty.

Ok, SJW...you do have choices, you do. You want to see the kids? You don't want to see him? Or you do, but not in the house? Take a big breath and use the time to think about what small steps you want to take now, what's best for (in this order) the kids, you and him

Post here and road test your ideas...people will help you think out loud x

I desperately want to see the kids and they want to see me but he's supposed to be with them for 2 weeks and I've told him he can't sleep in the house when I'm here. Everyone has said previously I should stick to that but when I tell him he goes mad and says I'm stopping him seeing the kids as him going to his other house and back every day isn't practical, not my problem I say?

I am out Friday and Saturday so that's fine just Friday for a couple of hours I can do. If I feel like I can't then I'll suggest taking the kids out rather than being at home. I also need to take the opportunity to do something different and that's be pleasant but not get drawn in as that's when my emotions take over. The problem is he wants me to be me the person I always have been when he's home but wants to continue A, cake eat basically. When I don't conform he gets angry.

What I need to do is not react when he gets angry because I refuse to be his support group. I keep telling him he needs to find someone else to talk to but keep getting dragged back in, I need to walk away if he starts and resist the urge to tell him home truths. I need to let him work it out for himself which he did when there was NC for nearly a week.

Originally Posted By: SJW

I desperately want to see the kids and they want to see me but he's supposed to be with them for 2 weeks and I've told him he can't sleep in the house when I'm here. Everyone has said previously I should stick to that but when I tell him he goes mad and says I'm stopping him seeing the kids as him going to his other house and back every day isn't practical, not my problem I say?
That does sound right...where is he living now and how far away is it? I think all the DB wisdom says to stick to the really important boundaries. It's really early days and emotional for all of you, him too. Could you reframe it as saying to him that it's about the kids and, because both of you are finding this emotional and hard, you can agree that both of you want to protect the kids from that kind of atmosphere?

I am out Friday and Saturday so that's fine just Friday for a couple of hours I can do.
Good GALing - woot!

If I feel like I can't then I'll suggest taking the kids out rather than being at home. I also need to take the opportunity to do something different and that's be pleasant but not get drawn in as that's when my emotions take over.
Is there an option of you all doing something nice together for a few hours, a family trip somewhere? Might that help both of you spend a bit of time together but avoid R talks for another time?

The problem is he wants me to be me the person I always have been when he's home but wants to continue A, cake eat basically. When I don't conform he gets angry.
Well, I guess that's just grown-up life, right? And conforming to how you used to be with him got you here...so that doesn't sound like a great idea whether it makes him angry or not. Detach, detach...doesn't mean you don't care, just means you step back off his rollercoaster. What does he do when he's angry? Do you know what he's actually angry about?

Originally Posted By: SJW

What I need to do is not react when he gets angry because I refuse to be his support group. I keep telling him he needs to find someone else to talk to but keep getting dragged back in, I need to walk away if he starts and resist the urge to tell him home truths. I need to let him work it out for himself which he did when there was NC for nearly a week.

What will help you get in a place where you can do that if you see him?

I have no idea other than me reminding myself and stepping away which after Sunday I must do. Their A is wavering already and if I want this M or at least a choice then I have to do this.

If he stays at work it's about 1hr 15min drive. If he stays with her probably more like 1hr 30-45 minutes both depending on traffic.

I only want to take the kids out if it's awkward at home as this is what he wants to play happy families at home then go back to OW and that's not fair on me or the kids.

Anyways I'm off to get more paint.

Not sure if it was clear from my previous post but he's back with OW. She's taunting me on social media and he knows it, agrees it's disrespectful but won't deal with it. In fact it suddenly made me realise earlier that she is far more jealous of me than I of her which has given me such a boost!

Well, that says rather more about her (OW) than about you or the sitch! Suggest you ignore it, take the glorious high road and block social media access as much as you can.

Gosh, just think there was a 'lipstick on the collar/receipts in jackets' time instead of FB and texts on mobile phones....

Writing everything down yesterday was really very therapeutic for me and by the afternoon I was feeling much more positive, thank you Treasur.

H took the kids to my parents yesterday afternoon so they could spend time with their cousins and he went to visit an old friend who was best man at our wedding. H called me when he was on his way back as the kids had said they were having dinner at my parents. I called my Mum, kids said they wanted to stay there for the night so called H back to let him know. I asked him how friend was and proceeded to have a good 10 minute conversation with him about said friend, partner and kids. He was telling me about some other friends that were now working together and we just chatted really happily. He then started asking what I was doing, what had I done this week. Fortunately I was picking a friend up from work so said just stuff and was able to end the call as my friend got in the car. I went to get my hair done and had friends over for dinner.

Later in the evening I text H and said I�m really glad you saw friend today, you sounded really happy when I spoke to you 😊. He replied after a few minutes to which I responded, he then sent another which I could have responded to and continued a conversation but I felt it didn�t need a response so left it at that.

This morning the sun is shining I have put washing on the line and am about to start painting again!

OMG!!! Can someone stop this rollercoaster I want to get off!

H didn't come back until Saturday with the kids as they wanted to stay with my parents an extra night. I'd had a great night out on Friday with a friend I've only seen once since this nightmare started and we had such a laugh. Saturday morning I thought I was going to be physically sick. I hadn't seen H in over 2 weeks and he had done what he'd done in the previous week saying he wanted to come home then changing his mind when I lost it.

Somehow I managed to pull myself together and by the time he got back I had done my hair and make up and had just popped to the shop. When I got back the kids went crazy and we had massive amounts of cuddles. I would have loved to have seen his face when he walked in but I think it probably hit him harder that I wasn't there. Over the 2 weeks I have pretty much removed all traces of him from display, photo's his framed army warrant and colours etc. I've moved the living room furniture round and my bedroom and painted like a maniac. When I got back he said he couldn't believe how much I had done and how hard I must have worked. My friend had also done the garden for me but I didn't tell him that.

I could tell he felt awkward but was just complete sweetness and light. I made some lunch and went to watch TV and chat with the kids. He went into our other living room and sat on his own. I spent the afternoon with the kids and then packed a bag and grabbed a dress and told him I was going out. He already knew I had plans but asked me if I was getting ready where I was going and I said yes, he asked me if I was coming home I said no and then left.

I got yesterday afternoon after shopping with friends and he was hovering around the kitchen acting really strange, then he said it......I've made the biggest mistake of my life and I want to come home and be with you and the kids!!!!

You could have knocked me over with a feather I had no clue what to say or what to feel or what to do. We talked for a bit mostly him talking and me listening but I asked him what had changed and he said coming home and seeing the changes just made him realise that he wanted our life in our home with our kids and he doesn't know what he has been thinking of these past few months. I told him he needed to speak to someone else about this as I can't give him the answers and I don't know how I feel and I genuinely don't. I want my M but how can I possibly get over this. He says he will do anything to win me back but is asking me to tell him what to do which obviously isn't going to work. I have always organised everything and for 10 weeks been accused of being controlling and now he wants me to go back to being his carer and make this OK?? How do I do that, surely if he's serious that's up to him. Then there is the other part of me that thinks he's changed his mind very quickly about who he loves recently what's to stop him doing it again and destroying me all over again.

I think I feel worse now than I have done for the past 10 weeks since he dropped the bomb!!

Advice please

Wow. That must be a lot to take in. Am so happy you got to hear that from him but I understand your reticence. My first thought is: Proceed with caution.

In my case my husband said he wanted to come back after 9 months but I could tell he wasn't vested in marriage counselling. I think it was a major touch and go as things were not going well with OW1 and he thought I could slip off the line. The rejection was even worse the second time.

One thing I have learned is that time can be our biggest ally. You need to process all of this. Plus making him sweat it out while you do is irrelevant. I think you are right to be wary of his ability to flip flop. Move at your own pace not his. He is starting to see what he could lose.

I am sure much wiser people will weigh-in and give you great advice.

Thanks Citygrl. He's pretty convincing but I have to self preserve. I've told him he needs to make up to his kids first as I have put them first in all of this and it's not about us right now it's about them. He just keeps hovering around me like a lost puppy. I've come over to my friends who's at work but I have a key just to get some space. Time if what we all have and I need take time to regroup.

Yes. Take your time. From what I read you will need to be strong if you start piecing. That's another can of worms. Good luck. I am routing for you.

SJW, words everyone wants to hear, especially so early in the sitch, you responded great.

Here's my thoughts, for what it's worth..

If you feel you must respond, I'd start with something like "there is no need for me to engage in a talk about us when you have a gf?"

He needs to sweat it out, put in work (actions) earning you back.

You need to be absolutely convinced, to you're core, that he means it.

I agree with what you said about him bouncing back and forth, if it was me I'd want him to spend some alone time and see him working on himself (go to IC on his own, fix things with his family, become a great dad (again), and start treating you right.)

Try reaching out to BluWave on her thread, she may be able to give you some insight.

Oh, and don't get your hopes up, it could very well just be a moment of weakness in him, maybe due to an argument with OW, and that's why I would want to see actions before I started R talk... When/If you think he does mean it, maybe spend a little family time as friends..

How you doing, SJW?

SJW,

I saw your post on another thread, that your H has moved back in. I really hope you don't stop posting, and that you don't just allow everything to get sweeped under the rug.

Many, many reconciliations end up back in this situation because the real issues aren't addressed. I do hope you keep posting.

Brief update as I have to take the kids shopping for school shoes, wish me luck!!

H was at the house all last week with the kids as agreed, sometimes I stayed here sometimes I went out and continued with my life as it was for the 10 weeks whilst he was in OWstan. I agreed that he could move back home for the kids but it was in the spare room and I have no idea about us. OW is definitely no more and hadn�t been since he returned from holiday with her 2 weeks ago. Coconut said I had to believe to my core this was true and I do, he has completely realised exactly what she is and described it like having an out of body experience like watching someone else living his life with her. I laughed and said we had 2 names for you as that is exactly what it was like you were this person with her who was vicious and nasty and then every now and again the real you would appear.

He has talked a lot, cried and lot and is full of remorse and guilt. He has spent a fortune and taken finance in his name to buy furniture for her house and borrowed from his Mum which is so disappointing as we have never been in debt or asked parents for money. I guess money is money and has no real meaning in the scheme of things but with it would still be a constant reminder and not one I am sure I can deal with.

Emotionally I am all over the place I want to try but don�t know if I can ever get over what�s happened and all of the effort he has put into her that he has never done for me. I still love him and he is trying in small ways. He has been and spoken to friends individually to apologise to them and thank them for being there for me. He has written me a very emotional letter about how he feels about me and the kids and how sorry he is for what he has done. He tells me every day how much he loves me, he�s made the biggest mistake of his life, he wishes he could go back and change it and how I am the most amazing person in every way.

He went back to work yesterday and I needed to see how that affected me as he works with her but he kept in constant contact with me and spoke to her about taking on the furniture finance which at first she refused but later agreed to do. I was actually OK as I do completely believe him that he doesn�t want her, she�s completely unhinged. She had his wedding ring and refused to give it him back but then brought it into work this morning in a gift bag??

What I�m not sure about is where to even start trying to put this back together if that is even possible. He is going away on Friday for 2 weeks with work so that will give me some time to regroup and think things through and also him some time to think. He has an appointment with a counsellor when he gets back to work out why this happened in the first place and after that possibly MC for both of us if I feel ready. Some days I hug him because he is my H and I momentarily forget the pain but then it comes back and I will be upset or withdrawn again.
I�m going to go through some other posts maybe on the piecing forum and see what I can get from that and also read DB/DR again when I get chance.

Thanks everyone for checking on me and don't worry I'll be around for a while yet.

My darling girl
First of all, loved the OWstan thing...and it is true that your H got lost, maybe more lost to himself than OW in truth. OWs are more of a symptom often but you know that.

Good that he's planning on IC and that sounds essential. You share the responsibility for your M as it was, but this crisis and how he handled it belongs only to him. He needs to figure out what his crisis was about, why he chose to deal with it that way and what he needs to do to help both of you rebuild and tidy the mess he made.

But he's not the only battered one, is he? Your emotions sound pretty normal to me. I guess the risk is that you won't feel safe to express them while you're both battered and trying to move forward. Do you have an IC for yourself? If not, would it help if only as a short-term thing to have a safe place to vent and think out loud?

From what I've seen here, it's going to be a tough road for both of you for a little while with a weird mix of joy and confusion. I guess it's like a series of steps - tidy up the fallout first, then MC to rebuild something new. I'm thrilled you both have the chance to do this (a bit envious actually) and wiser heads than mine here will be able to help you keep focusing on you. I suppose for many of us we used to have a Me+You=Us M. Now, and maybe for the better, we see the strength of having a Me+You+Us M instead.

Hi,

I have not read your entire sitch, but I understand you H left for OW and is now back with all the remorse? So that was me 2.5 years ago, and we are still together piecing, and there are some days that I question if I made the right choice. As time has gone by and we work on this together, I am more hopeful that we can have a great marriage. Maybe even better than before. It takes a lot of grit, patience, and time.

There is no rule book for piecing and so that has been challenging and I frequently have to step outside of my emotions and make locgical decisions. I agree with others to proceed cautiously. However when my H came back he did have all the remorse and regret; my intuition told me it was true and it was because he has demonstrated this with consistent actions over time. So I think the trust is twofold: your instincts and also his actions over time. Either way, I wish that I had let him back much slower.

Some things that helped us get through the initial shock of the separation and then coming back together were each having a good IC, going to the best MC we could find, and also reading books on how to recover after an affair. in the mean time I continued to try and focus on my own GAL/180s for me. When it came to including/telling much to the kids, we took our time on that, but my H had also moved out for many months.

Here is the thing, even if this doesn't work in the long run, or even if you don't get to a place where you feel you can accept/forgive this, you still get the opportunity to try. We are fortunate in that sense because most posters here will not have that chance. I didn't think I could or would see past any type of infidelity so that has been extremely challenging for me. I also knew that I didn't want to live my life with regrets or to not be able to tell myself (or my kids one day) that I tried. The first year was another roller coaster of emotions, confusion, and doubt. The second year was less so. Now things are falling into place. It has been a lot of work and a conscious effort to forgive and start rebuilding. There have been countless days where my heart was not in it.

Something to chew on: there are other posters here that have had their S come back to the M and even started piecing, and they still struggle because the S is not remorseful or they don't feel they can trust them. So they can do the work and start piecing, but they can't change the other--they have to wait and hope that it comes. You already have that--you feel he is remorseful and being sincere. So IMO you can now go into the hard work with a bit of an advantage.

And keep posting--here and to others-- it will help in more ways than you know.

Best of luck!
Blu

I don't have time to post much, but I wanted to hit on a point you made that is VERY significant.. That he works with OW.

Any chance of that changing in the very near future? Personally it would be a deal breaker for me, but it definitely presents extra challenges if it continues if you do decide to move forward.

Whatever you decide to do moving forward, I would suggest you really take your time to decide, don't be in a hurry to commit to him, really work through it on your own for now, he will wait if he means it.

I know I wouldn't be able to do it either. If my W told me her OM taught at the same school she did I would tell her she needed to transfer or us wouldn't happen. I would always be wondering if they were sneaking off into the broom closet

My W, in a few weeks after BD, went out on a coffee date with a coworker who is also separated. Nothing came of it and nothing seems to be going on - as far as I can tell.

If something did, most definitely a deal breaker for me. I wouldn't consider even for a second a recon with W if she was still working in the same place. It will be tough for her to switch jobs right now, and for the next few years, for a number of reasons - but I wouldn't give a $hit about all those reasons.

It would be simple - as long as she's in the same workplace, Imma be out of the picture. there would be no negotiation.

Hi Treasur

I got the OWstan from you my darling a hilarious analogy.

We are both severely battered and I agree with you that I also need to seek IC which I will do as a priority when the kids are at school next week. I suppose I've been lucky in that I have a fantastic support network of friends around me and this place, he has had nobody, although he has opened up to one of our friends since he's been back. I feel having someone neutral and experienced is necessary for both of us.

SJ x

Oooh, clever funny me - I'd forgotten about OWstan. Think my STBXH splits his time between OWstan at weekends and MeMeStan during the week!

So looking forward to meeting you f2f x

Thanks everyone for stopping by.

I completely get the concern about H still working with OW and ideally I would prefer he didn't however I do absolutely completely believe him that he is done with her. Each day his comments become more damning of her and himself for being sucked in and making such horrific decisions that affected me, the kids and everyone else in his life so badly. He has also spoken in depth to one of our friends and she also believes that he will never go there. The other difficulty is he can ask for a transfer but ironically he took this posting to be nearer to home in his final posting before leaving the army, it was so he could spend more time at home rather than just weekends if he wasn't working. If he requests a transfer he could be sent anywhere including on tour for 4-6 months. There are times when I think the tour option would be great but then in reality what would it achieve, another 4-6 months of our kids not seeing their Daddy and I wholeheartedly believe that they need to see as much of him as possible right now after what has happened. He needs to build his bridges with them as although me and the kids talk a lot and very openly (in an age appropriate way of course) they don't find it as easy to talk to him and I want him to work on this for them and himself.

He has a parade tomorrow which he has invited us to and then he goes away for 10 days. My DO has already asked if OW will be going but she isn't and I also told her she didn't need to worry about that.

We have discussed at length where we are currently at and what we would both like going forward but have also both agreed that we cannot just jump back into routine as if nothings happened. We both want the M but a better M so I feel a little less all over the place but that's today.

I need to continue to work on me and the kids and next week once they're back at school find myself IC and start deciding what I am going to do for a job.

Hi Blu

I think reading your thread would really help me. Where can I find it?

Thanks for the advice.

SJ x

SJW/Citygrl - still ok for the 15th?

SJW. Hope you can make London! Know you have your hands full and small children but would be great to meet you as well as anyone else reading.

Sorry for disappearing but very suddenly and devastatingly my Dad passed away on 4th September. As you can imagine all thoughts have been occupied with this and I have been travelling backwards and forwards to Manchester to be with my Mum and brother and make arrangements.

I will endeavour to make Friday and up to now should be OK but it's hour by hour at the moment. I'm back up to Manchester tonight until tomorrow night possibly Thursday morning.

H has been fantastic immediately took a weeks compassionate leave from exercise and has been very supportive. Our sitch is on hold for now, we are friends and parents first and foremost. He has his first IC appointment tomorrow evening, I haven't arranged mine yet but I know I need to.

SJ

So sorry for your loss, SJW, and glad your H is being decent. Let us know on Thursday if Friday will work for you, if it won't, please don't worry about it x

Thanks Treasur

Should be fine but will confirm Thursday afternoon/evening. Liverpool Street station main ticket office 12.00?

SJ x

Very sorry to hear about your dad passing SJW! How are you doing?

So sorry to hear about your Dad. I can understand how busy you are with family. Hope you can make it and we can be a welcome distraction. Completely understand if it won't work. Take care of yourself.

Yup. Hope you're ok x

Hope your OK x

Sorry for your loss SJ

Take care.

SJ, I'm so sorry your father passed.

likewise

Last Friday was my Dad's funeral. I think we did him proud and H was incredibly supportive. Now I don't have the focus of the funeral arrangements to distract me I have gone backwards in terms of DBing in my sitch.

H wants to completely forget about it draw a line under his 'mistake' and work on a future for us. I need to know every single detail so I can process it deal with it and move to the next stage whatever that may be. He doesn't understand this and asks why I want to torture myself. I've explained that the imagination is far worse than fact and yesterday morning I thought he had actually got it. Then last night he forwarded me a message he had received from OW making reference to a diary and saying I know you have only left me to be with your kids and W is part of that package. I am devastated about the diary (which conveniently he threw away) but also the fact that he clearly hasn't told her straight that he doesn't want to be with her he has used the kids as an excuse.

I lost it with him on the phone last night and haven't heard from him this morning apart from him ringing our S as he was going on a school trip.

So I guess it's back to the drawing board for me. I had my first IC session on Monday and have another next week. H has his 3rd IC tonight if he goes. Feeling pretty rubbish today almost as bad as BD day.

Hi SJW,

Just a bump in the road..?

I must admit my WW early in the A (before I moved out of the FH) did say she had finished with her AP/LO and then went on to say she would be visiting friends on the same day has his birthday!
I basically hung her out to dry with that one and she confessed the next time I saw her, I understand the pain.

Are you going to DR again..?

Be strong, take care.

Mark.

Hi SJW,

I'm sorry about your father. You (and DH) must know that your emotional resiliency is rather low right now because you are grieving. Cut yourself a break.

Don't bother angsting over the diary (though I'm not following whose it is) or OW's comments. It's better for her ego if she believes that he just went back to her kids, isn't it? So she may believe that, or WH may not have had the stones to break up with her outright, and gave her the "kids" line in order to still feel like a good guy.

I'd want to know what he said to her when he broke up with her. I'd also want to know why she's emailing him something personal. Does he plan on going NC with her? I understand he works with her, so NC has to be about anything personal.

In my mind, a WH who wants to rug-sweep isn't facing the consequences of his choices. He'd prefer not to do that. His preference does not mean that you have to allow for rug-sweeping.

I don't know that you need to know every detail. Do you think that will help you? I think it might be better to work on a list of questions that are important for you to know, and - if you think DH is where he needs to be to move forward - ask those to him. Maybe ask one a day. Things like "Why did you do it?" and "Did you love her?"

But is he where he needs to be? I know it would feel so nice to drop your guard, believe his words, and go back to your marriage. However, what message would you be sending your DH about how you feel about yourself if you did that? If he's allowed right back, what is to stop him from doing this again?

A remorseful man would feel awful about his actions, wouldn't pressure you to let him back before you were ready, and would understand that he's going to have to be uncomfortable in order to help you regain trust.

I don't think your DH is remorseful. I don't think he's looked inside of himself to try to understand that piece of why he did what he did. He may regret his actions, but I think it will be a losing proposition for you to let a regretful man back in. Until there's remorse, I'd be hesitant to open myself up to him.

Originally Posted By: SJW

H wants to completely forget about it draw a line under his 'mistake' and work on a future for us. I need to know every single detail so I can process it deal with it and move to the next stage whatever that may be. He doesn't understand this and asks why I want to torture myself.

It is normal in recon for the WAS to just want to sweep it all under the rug and for the LBS to want to know all the sordid details. Like you said, knowing is better than imagining. But he feels like sharing the details is akin to having an A all over again, so you need to find a way to strike a balance there- accept that he's not going to tell you everything, believe that if he did the details are probably more mundane than you are imagining, and instead focus on moving forward with whatever boundaries you may need for that (such as him disclosing whenever he is doing something outside the M, and giving you access to his phone and email).

Quote:

...and saying I know you have only left me to be with your kids and W is part of that package. I am devastated about the diary (which conveniently he threw away) but also the fact that he clearly hasn't told her straight that he doesn't want to be with her he has used the kids as an excuse.

Don't you see the irony here? He doesn't want to share details with you, but you tell him you want to know because imagination is worse than reality, but then here he is sharing a detail with you and you flip out and shout at him about it. NO MATTER WHAT HE TELLS YOU, YOU ARE GOING TO INTERPRET IT IN THE WORSE POSSIBLE WAY. And that is exactly the issue. Personally I read this and I think that's a huge step forward, not only did he tell her he's done with her but he sent you evidence of the conversation. It's OK to let him know you are upset, but it should be in a productive way- "H I admit that does upset me but I am glad you shared this with me, thank you."

Quote:

I lost it with him on the phone last night and haven't heard from him this morning apart from him ringing our S as he was going on a school trip.

My suggestion is to apologize to him. "I'm sorry I overreacted, I do appreciate you sharing things with me even though it sometimes upsets me. I will try to control my reactions when you share things in the future."

Starting a new thread and will try to remember how to link this one.

New thread

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2763510&#Post2763510