New thread.
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Going through divorce part 1 lcause, can you clarify the status of your D a little? It looks like it's not final yet from your signature, but I see you saying you're "technically divorced" and things like that.
Have you read Txhubby's thread? I think he does a great job of explaining how you can detach and GAL. It really helped me realize that I should not let myself be dragged down to W's level.
D filed, there is a waiting period before it can legally be ended. Thinking time, if you will. So legally married, technically divorced
I have read it. His story is so inspirational but I think our situations are pretty different. I don't know if my XW is WW but she certainly isn't "cocky" at all.
I'm trying to search for groups etc. to meet new people. I'm also going to join a hacklab and participate in it stuff. Bought a guitar and a new bicycle. Carbon fiber baby! Also, collecting phone numbers of companies to call to and trying to spice up my portfolio.
Now spending the weekend at relatives with my daughter. She's gonna play with my mom and I'm going to go to run 8 miles. Sauna afterwards. Maybe a beer. Life is smiling right now. I realized I've been feeling depressed because I haven't taken vitamins and fish oil. I'm going to talk to my doctor about anti-depressants but I don't know if I want to go that route. Last time he said I've been progressing and if I can keep up with my routine there should be no need. Tapering off is pita. Also, I've been slacking off at exercising! Now I'm going to run again every day. Moving, sorting stuff and buying new furniture took all the juice for a while and probably added to the stress.
A few days went by. Nothing new really. I suspect there is an A due to new clues but that's it about that. There is no reason to obsess about it.
Spent quality time playing with my daughter and just dropped her to my XWs place. Hold my S for a while and left.
Is it normal that the LBS starts to feel that he/she isn't everything that was wrong? That the other S contributed quite a bit for the fall? I didn't remember but I've hold thoughts that I back off because she doesn't seem to care about me. I now remember that I have actively tried to be with her but she's the one who has been absent! She spent time doing nothing on her phone when we had time to be together. She drove me to sleep on couch because I snore or wake up the baby with my alarm clock!
For the first time I actually started to think that I'm not so sure if I really want the R with her anymore, especially if she hasn't changed herself. Is this normal? Am I just being emotional even when I don't really feel like it?
XW didn't contact a single time for the whole weekend which was nice for detaching. She spent the weekend at a summer cottage, and my daughter was feeling a bit down that she couldn't go. I asked my XW why not and she said it'd be odd. She texted later that she thinks D could go but I have to understand she doesn't have many adult friends and she wants to have adult conversations. Felt a bit odd to me but ok.
She continued texting me and then said she's sorry to bother me. And then she said "if it's ok, can I ask how you feel?". I told her that I'm fine, life's ahead! She said she's glad to hear it because she has been stressing it a lot that I'm feeling depressed. Technically, my feelings are not her business anymore... not sure why she would be obsessed about how I am feeling.
GALing and detaching continues. I'm very glad I found this site and DB/DR.
Dear diary,
today I failed again. We talked about our R. But XW was the one to start it. She said that she hopes we don't start fighting and told me that she misses the good times we had but the overall picture affected to the decision. That she waited for me to change but nothing happened. That she was naive to wait for it.
I told her I miss the good times too and that I can understand her feelings. I told her that it is ok to feel like that. Then I went on rambling that I'm going to change for myself and make myself the best father and a lovable husband. That future shows what happens, I love my family with all my heart and I would want us to be together someday. I added that it is not necessary/or my need, but I want it.
Argh. So good progress and then I fail it all over again by going emotional and getting sucked into the discussion. My XW just said "that sounds like a good plan". Trust nothing they say. She also said that she has really noticed that I am feeling happy about my future.
I ruined it. Meh. 180s continue and GAL.
That doesn't sound too bad. Probably could have done without the "I'm changing part". You doing it would be much better, actually its critical. She brought it up, so keep conversation in the same manner as her. Called mirroring I believe. Been in your shoes man, impatience will set this back. You will screw up like us all, but for every step backwards make two steps forward.
today I failed again. We talked about our R. But XW was the one to start it.
I agree with Dale, that is not failure. It is OK to talk about the R if THEY bring it up. You're just not supposed to initiate R talks yourself. And when they bring it up, try to just listen and validate.
She said that she hopes we don't start fighting and told me that she misses the good times we had but the overall picture affected to the decision.
That may sound bad but it's actually a good sign! WAS's start out remembering nothing but the bad things. When they start remembering there were good times too, then it shows they may be starting a turnaround.
Then I went on rambling that I'm going to change for myself and make myself the best father and a lovable husband. That future shows what happens, I love my family with all my heart and I would want us to be together someday. I added that it is not necessary/or my need, but I want it.
Well that's not terrible, but next time leave out the talk about a future with HER. You're working on yourself, you want to be the best you that you can be, and the best father to your kids. Stop there.
Argh. So good progress and then I fail it all over again by going emotional and getting sucked into the discussion.
Actually you did quite well!
She also said that she has really noticed that I am feeling happy about my future.
Another great sign! Remember it's all about baby steps rather than big moves.
Thanks AS and dale for the support.
I read another forum and they seem to be determined that an A has to be found and exposed before the marriage is even possible to be saved. If it stays under the radar for a long period of time, the marriage is 100% over. I suspect there is because of the WhatsApp use and some other stuff.
The problem is that I can't do anything about it. I can't snoop and according to these guidelines it is bad. Confronting her only gets lies if there is something and pushes her further away.
I know I promised not to obsess about an A. I am not obsessing, just genuinely interested if DBing naturally kills the affairs without exposure on them. I still haven't read the book(s).
Hi Lcause, I would really recommend getting the books. I find DR better but that's just my personal preference. I have read and keep re reading. I know my sitch is different as H openly admitted A from the word go as in his eyes it's not an A but the books talk about all the different scenarios.
You're right you have to keep working on you for you and as AS says it sounds like she noticing.
SJ
I read another forum and they seem to be determined that an A has to be found and exposed before the marriage is even possible to be saved. If it stays under the radar for a long period of time, the marriage is 100% over.
Anytime you read an absolute like that, like "if X happens then it's 100% over" you should immediately question the validity of it. Nothing is ever an absolute. Marriages have recovered from seemingly impossible situations. The coaches in Retrouvaille are couples that have gone through hell and back and saved their M's. We're not supposed to disclose what happens in R, but I think it's OK to mention that at one point you hear the stories of the hosting couples and it is staggering what most of them have gone through. I mean picture the worst possible scenario, then dig a hole under it and down there in that dark hole is where some of those couples were. It is almost guaranteed to make you feel like your own marital problems are a walk through a field of daisies by comparison! And they not only recovered, but are exceedingly happy. It's quite amazing.
The problem is that I can't do anything about it. I can't snoop and according to these guidelines it is bad. Confronting her only gets lies if there is something and pushes her further away.
Here's the thing, does knowing or not knowing change your sitch? It really doesn't, you got BD'd and she wants out regardless of whether there is an OM or not. My W had an OM that she claimed was just a friend. To this day I don't know what was going on with them before BD and S, all I know is she wanted out. I wanted to save the M, she didn't. People asked me early on if it would make a difference to me if I knew. I decided it didn't, I would still want to save the M. Once I came to that realization, I quit worrying about it. And that took a lot of the stress of my sitch. At one point after S I had to drop something off to W. She asked me to leave it in her mailbox that afternoon. I forgot and didn't remember until I left for work the next day, like 5:30am or so. When I drove over, there was OM's truck in the drive. So yeah, at SOME point it was physical. I don't know when, and it doesn't really matter. People act like an affair is such a betrayal, but to me BD is the REAL betrayal. Anything else is just a byproduct of BD.
I understand. They meant that by exposing the affair you are putting pressure on them and thus making the affair crumble and die. By leaving them be they can continue it until the point is crossed where the WAS simply is completely over his/her S and/or publicly dating/jumping to another A. Also there is never a chance for recon before the A is over.
Also, at least TXHubby said there's a different approach if S is having an A. Don't know what he meant.
Do you think the A was a reason why your W never wanted to recon? Although that is kind of mind reading. Just curious, no need to answer if the question is too rude. Sorry.
BD indeed is because these things should be really gone through before they end up like this. There are so many options yet people don't utilize them but just continue to nag/argue until it's too late.
XW sent me a msg today asking if I would want to taste something she cooked. She dropped my D here and gave me the food. It was good.
Ive heard both sides of why and why not. I can tell you that when I had a hunch and finally went wild on both W and OM they retreated and I would assume got closer than ever. That happens to be one of the reasons not to do it. When I exposed it they were together for 7 months so it wasn't brand new. Plus exposing it runs the risk of making W look like a terrible person to the world. More reason to hide. I would guess that exposing a brand new one would work better.
Going about your business is probably the best answer but I totally understand. I think I was finally able to start detaching when my wife fessed up. It took her several months to fess up. She initially did it piece by piece which 90% of it was lies.
I personally would want to know too. Its just the way I am. It actually helped me. BUT, there is a good chance you doing and going about this will bring your Ego and emotional state to places you didn't think were possible. Good chance your W lies initially and strings you along with more lies. You did mention this has happened before in prior R so maybe you do know more about it.
So with all that said, you don't know anything factual. I would rather see you go about your business for awhile and see what happens. When you hit a snag, post here for more advice.
I understand. They meant that by exposing the affair you are putting pressure on them and thus making the affair crumble and die.
Ah yes, I'm a little familiar with that school of thought. I think that applies more to situations where the spouse isn't a walkaway, but a cake-eater. They want to continue living at home and acting like everything is fine while also carrying on with an A. Most of the people that end up here have a spouse that has already BD'd and is either out the door or close to it. Technically after BD it's not really an "affair" anymore in the WAS's eyes, because to them BD is divorce and the only thing left is the legal aspect.
Anyway, I wasn't suggesting that you should ignore the A, I was saying that you need to decide if you personally need to know. In my case I decided I didn't, but you may very well consider it very important. If you really need to know then a little snooping and sleuthing might be warranted. But once you find out, don't keep snooping because it'll just eat at you. Here's the problem I had though- I snooped and found no evidence of an A. But of course I still wondered if there was one, absence of evidence doesn't mean there isn't one. And it doesn't mean that there is. See you can really drive yourself crazy with that
Do you think the A was a reason why your W never wanted to recon? Although that is kind of mind reading. Just curious, no need to answer if the question is too rude. Sorry.
Not rude at all! Actually she did attempt a recon. That was when we went to Retrouvaille. By then I had started dating someone and my heart just wasn't in it. During the followup meetings I finally just told her I didn't think she was committed and I suggested we quit going, and we did. In retrospect I wish I had not started dating that soon, I think now that I was the one that wasn't committed rather than W. She never attempted recon again, although in the last 6 months she's greatly softened towards me and has invited me to lunches, dinners and movies (all with one or more of the kids though) and asked me to come over and help her with things around her house (which is unusual because for years she went out of her way to get help anywhere BUT from me even if I offered it). She also invited me over for my birthday (again, with the kids there). I don't know why the sudden change of heart after years of the cold shoulder but it's all good. I'm not interested in recon at this point anyway. That's the thing about DB'ing, once you become the best "you" that you can be, you just don't need the WAS anymore. All those crazy chemicals that make you think you will die if you don't get her back dissipate and you realize, yeah, I can live a life without her and in fact it can be a BETTER life. It's usually not until then that the WAS realizes you truly have moved on, and THEN they want you back, LOL! Life is full of irony!
Technically after BD it's not really an "affair" anymore in the WAS's eyes, because to them BD is divorce and the only thing left is the legal aspect.
Anyway, I wasn't suggesting that you should ignore the A, I was saying that you need to decide if you personally need to know. In my case I decided I didn't, but you may very well consider it very important. If you really need to know then a little snooping and sleuthing might be warranted. But once you find out, don't keep snooping because it'll just eat at you. Here's the problem I had though- I snooped and found no evidence of an A. But of course I still wondered if there was one, absence of evidence doesn't mean there isn't one. And it doesn't mean that there is. See you can really drive yourself crazy with that
I see, thanks. You are correct, obsessing about it in the past made me super anxious so I don't want to follow that route anymore. There are some oddities but they could also be explained without an active A. She would be quite an actress also but they say the person is not the same you knew after the BD happens.
That's the thing about DB'ing, once you become the best "you" that you can be, you just don't need the WAS anymore. All those crazy chemicals that make you think you will die if you don't get her back dissipate and you realize, yeah, I can live a life without her and in fact it can be a BETTER life. It's usually not until then that the WAS realizes you truly have moved on, and THEN they want you back, LOL! Life is full of irony!
Thanks for sharing a short version of your story. I need to read your sitch through
That would be so crazy. Find myself in a situation where our roles would have turned around. I don't think that'll happen but envisioning it now feels so funny.
I find myself slacking again which is not good. I'm obsessing way too much. DR should be here this week.
Finally got my PC plugged in and working. I guess, ironically, I've already changed somewhat since while in R I spent too much time on PC... Now I've lived without a PC for a while and not even really needing it. Heh.
I realized that the worst thing driving my feelings right now is FEAR. Fear of the FUTURE. Fear of things like when do I get sex the next time? Do I even get sex ever anymore? Can I find a girl of my dreams being a dad for two kids already? Where do I find friends? Am I a failure and is my future always going to be empty?
Part of me really counted towards the future with my XW since she graduates to a career that pays very well. I know it's awkward but I really see myself enjoying someone career focused. Am I just being stupid for having these thoughts? Am I being too picky for thinking that I don't want to settle to someone less educated than myself? Come to think about it, I think I've always attracted more "successful" women... or at least they are "successful" now based on their linkedins - while being a complete non-success myself.
All of these are just driven by FEAR. And some points I hate in myself. Am I just being attached to my XW due to her bright future? I'm in a field where I could reach stars if I was the right kind of person. Maybe that's the person I'm really searching now? I've always WANTED to be that person who is driven by enthusiasm, social interactions, innovativeness, career... I am just so lost how to find that person. How to achieve the goals? I set goals... but I fail at achieving them. I'm the wrong kind of perfectionist. The one who wants perfection but fears to do anything because mediocrity feels like failing. Then I end up doing bad because I just procrastinate.
Man, this self reflection in a quiet small apt between four white walls staring to a bright white screen in dark is just pouring thoughts into my head. I want to find that true person, overcome my fear, cure my depression, destroy my bad habits, become the best father, become the best lover. I will do it, and if you read this through and you are in a similar situation, you will do it too!
Man, this self reflection...
It sounds like you're stuck in an infinite loop.
Thanks AS and dale for the support.
I read another forum and they seem to be determined that an A has to be found and exposed before the marriage is even possible to be saved. If it stays under the radar for a long period of time, the marriage is 100% over. I suspect there is because of the WhatsApp use and some other stuff.
The problem is that I can't do anything about it. I can't snoop and according to these guidelines it is bad. Confronting her only gets lies if there is something and pushes her further away.'
this is a DB site, not another forum. Choose an approach and stick with it.
UNLESS you decide an A is a 100% dealbreaker and that if she's dating now (and you won't know when it began unless you do some serious snooping)
it's the same as if she dated years ago. THEN by all means, go at it. - I think I posted this before...
But watch yourself for the negative program looping going on...
I know I promised not to obsess about an A. I am not obsessing, just genuinely interested
and the difference is...???
if DBing naturally kills the affairs without exposure on them.
Exposure to whom? Of the reconciliations I have seen here, I'm not sure any contained exposure to 3rd parties.
Or Do you mean confronting her?
If so, To what end? I mean, she's out and she has filed for divorce.
There's no "faking a happy m" going on. (That would be a different story to me).
What is it you think would happen if you decided that rather than change your outlook,
you'll focus on whether she is dating? Get clear on this. What is the goal??
I still haven't read the book(s).
Honestly I would stop obsessing (or being genuinely interested in) and start reading the book that forms the basis of this approach.
You will get so much more out of this and you won't spin as much.
Hang in there. This is very early in the process...
With genuinely interested I meant on the strategy, not her A.
By knowing I could change my behavior towards her. I don't need to "fake it until I make it" if she's already in a new R. I don't need to behave like a friendly neighbor, but rather how I feel about it. I can set strict boundaries. Stop being a laughing stock for her and her new partner. I could start dating and finding a new love too because I'd know she's genuinely moved on.
It's easier for me to start making changes for my life if I know she's never there for me anymore. I can't just flip a switch in my brain to stop thinking about her and possible OM but a new R is genuinely something that would force it to happen after a short massive burst of grieving. It'll just come out much stronger if I'm lied to and I find it later. Even if I'm moved on.
If she is already happily divorced, why not tell about the R but LIE about it? Lie about caring how I feel? Are people so ignorant that they think by not telling they are caring? They are caring if they speak honestly and stop making comments like "time will show" or "i never said we couldn't be together in the future". Situations like these show the true colors.
I realized that the worst thing driving my feelings right now is FEAR. Fear of the FUTURE. Fear of things like when do I get sex the next time?
THAT is completely normal for someone in your sitch. I had all the exact same thoughts after BD, they ate at me day and night. It takes a while but those thoughts will slow down and eventually go away. YOU WILL BE OK!
Do I even get sex ever anymore? Can I find a girl of my dreams being a dad for two kids already? Where do I find friends? Am I a failure and is my future always going to be empty?
I hope this doesn't come off as boasting because I don't mean it to, I'm just trying to let you know that you have every reason to hope and no reason to despair. But when I started dating again, I could not find women my age that wanted to do anything more than text or email endlessly. I started contacting younger women and found them a lot more open to meeting right away. I heard the same stories over and over again about how selfish guys their age were and how they are extremely attracted to older guys that are confident, financially secure and gentlemen (which seems to be a dying art these days). My girlfriend and I have been together now for 2-1/2 years. She is young, very attractive, has a killer body and thinks I hung the moon. She has pretty much no inhibitions, our sex life would make a porn star blush, LOL! Frankly I often wonder how I managed to win the lotto on this deal
So yes, you will have sex again and it may very well be the best sex of your life. Do you watch Vikings? There was a scene where Rollo is talking to the Seer after having lost everything, and is asking if there's any hope for him, if his life is over. The Seer laughs and says something like "Oh Rollo, if you knew what the gods have in store for you, you would go down now and dance naked on the beach!" I think that is true for a lot of us. The new life we build after BD is usually pretty darned amazing. Like you I thought losing my W was the end of my life. It was the end of THAT life, but this new one has been a whole lot of fun
Thanks AS. Your continued support is invaluable. It's nice to hear that your life is superb now. Cases like these really do help because it could happen for me as well! However, if I would start dating younger women, I would most likely have to "make" more babies which I'm really not that keen to do.
Always thought three would be nice but I'm totally fine with two.
I haven't watched Vikings but I think I should. Now I have the time to do anything I really want to!
Feeling a bit down today as job seeking feels so overwhelming. It feels like my MSc papers could really be used better in place of toiler paper. Part of me thinks that the biggest and coolest achievement/GAL I could do/get is to get a proper job. Also - why can't dating/one night thingies be kept as a good GAL activity?
Certainly would take my mind off from things...
My XW sent me a message saying that my daughter has had super good time with me. She's been opening a bit it seems... dunno how to interact... keeping my answers short and nice.
keeping my answers short and nice.
that sounds like a good way to go.
hang in there!
Nothing new today on the sitch, except my XW brought me some food again and sent me a picture of our S. Briefly talked how quickly he is developing skills.
I felt really emotional today mainly due to that picture. I'm missing more than half of the life of my children. It feels bad. My XW said in the previous R talk we had that our M had good parts and she really did love me but felt like we just didn't progress. She waited for me to change but I never did. She feels that we are both going to get better lives now. I thought about that today as well which just made me lose all the remaining hope I had left.
I spent a few bucks on different books. DR should be here tomorrow. Other books I ordered:
- Who Moved My Cheese?
- The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People
- How to Win Friends and Influence People
- The Happiness Trap
- Thinking, Fast and Slow
- No More Mr. Nice Guy
I would gladly take more suggestions for life changing/motivation/lifestyle books!
I felt really emotional today mainly due to that picture. I'm missing more than half of the life of my children.
Then make the time you do have with them 4 times more valuable
A lot of us go on autopilot during M but after BD we really start working harder at ALL our relationships including those with our kids.
My XW said in the previous R talk we had that our M had good parts and she really did love me but felt like we just didn't progress. She waited for me to change but I never did. She feels that we are both going to get better lives now. I thought about that today as well which just made me lose all the remaining hope I had left.
Really? Read this and tell us what you think it means:
"32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared."
It hasn't even been 2 months since BD!! And you're giving up all hope? Believe me, EVERY LBS has heard that from their WAS. It's script. That's how she feels now, that could change in a year, or a month, or even in 5 minutes.
I would gladly take more suggestions for life changing/motivation/lifestyle books!
[/quote]
The 5 Love Languages is a great one too. This is not one that gets recommended here often, but "The Married Man Sex Life Primer" digs into alpha versus beta behavior. It's a little crude maybe, but there's some good stuff in it!
books- Passion Trap (recommended on here before), Attached book on adult attachment, anything by Brene Brown she is a vulnerability researcher- very helpful for me since that 'was' one of my biggest issues in my relationship.
I am just starting to read books by Frederick Dodson who does a lot of writing on intuition, subconscious mind, creating higher levels of energy esp to attract what you want in your life.
Then make the time you do have with them 4 times more valuable
A lot of us go on autopilot during M but after BD we really start working harder at ALL our relationships including those with our kids.
True! But still. My S has been progressing so much and I just rarely see the things happening when they happen for the first time. Obviously I'm working to be the best father they could wish for!
Really? Read this and tell us what you think it means:
"32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared."
It hasn't even been 2 months since BD!! And you're giving up all hope? Believe me, EVERY LBS has heard that from their WAS. It's script. That's how she feels now, that could change in a year, or a month, or even in 5 minutes.
I know that but she just does not seem to be hurting at all. She's rather happy and enjoying her life.
I think her possible A also contributes. I know her, she wouldn't just pick a random dude due to kids etc. She would take someone who would be her life-time partner.
It's hard to compete against her new Superman when her old Superman is stuffed into a closet filled with kryptonite.
The 5 Love Languages is a great one too. This is not one that gets recommended here often, but "The Married Man Sex Life Primer" digs into alpha versus beta behavior. It's a little crude maybe, but there's some good stuff in it!
I will order the 5 LL when I feel like I'm starting a new R. Don't think I'm emotionally there yet to read it. MMSLP seems fun, could order it even though it's not a book to be put on the shelf LOL.
Thanks
It hasn't even been 2 months since BD!! And you're giving up all hope? Believe me, EVERY LBS has heard that from their WAS. It's script. That's how she feels now, that could change in a year, or a month, or even in 5 minutes.
Had to re-quote this part: She has told me about this previously and even said that she thought about if our M should continue or not. I did change, but obviously those were not lasting changes. She did love me quite a lot though, since she was with me as long as she was! Year ago she still loved me a lot since she got pregnant after such a long time of trying.
That is why the hope is quite low or non-existent. She has probably found someone already who is a better match for her. I don't blame her but I am actually quite happy. She wouldn't be able to survive the university+children at the same time.
Most people here have probably had long-term very good marriages and then just life happened for a while. I don't know if our marriage was happy at all for her.
books- Passion Trap (recommended on here before), Attached book on adult attachment, anything by Brene Brown she is a vulnerability researcher- very helpful for me since that 'was' one of my biggest issues in my relationship.
I am just starting to read books by Frederick Dodson who does a lot of writing on intuition, subconscious mind, creating higher levels of energy esp to attract what you want in your life.
Thanks for the suggestions. I'll definitely check those out.
I know that but she just does not seem to be hurting at all. She's rather happy and enjoying her life.
Back when I was going through S I would come on here and talk about how my W was different, how she was 100% sure of herself, confident in what she was doing, ice cold, solid, immovable, enjoying her life without me. I had never seen her so resolute about ANYTHING. People here kept saying "that's what she looks like on the OUTSIDE, but INSIDE she is confused and in turmoil. Emotions are swirling." Like you I just didn't believe it. I believed what I saw, I believed what she said. I didn't believe the people here. At one point well after S, W reach out and was thinking about recon and we went to Retrouvaille. A big part of R is really opening up about your emotions and sharing them with your partner. In my case I got rare insights into what a WAS goes through. While she looked like the Rock of Gibralter around me, every night she was crying herself to sleep. She was in immense turmoil over what she was doing and second-guessing herself a thousand times a day. It was killing her to see me hurting so much because she DID still have feelings for me, which just made it all that much more difficult. She felt like she had to show me an icy facade to make it easier for me to accept she was leaving. She was afraid to show a chink in the armor, but it took everything she could muster to put up that facade around me. People here, they know what they're talking about. Sandi's rules are dead on. Michele's books may not -sound- right, but they are. Trust in DB'ing and in these forums.
I really wish people would just learn this one truth- your WAS is like this TEMPORARILY. She WILL change. What will determine your recon chances is whether you can wait that long. You can keep the road home paved and smooth, or you can put up roadblocks with "closed" signs. A lot of us (me included) do the latter because we get tired of waiting or just decide it's not worth it. People ask why there aren't more "success" (recon) stories, I truly believe it's because the LBS decided they were done. THERE IS NO REASON TO GIVE UP HOPE! If you want your M and you have the patience, chances are good you will get what you want. But it's not easy waiting, and even after recon it's not easy piecing.
MMSLP seems fun, could order it even though it's not a book to be put on the shelf LOL.
Do like I did, order the e version from Amazon. I read it on my iPhone while I was eating lunch each day
I know that but she just does not seem to be hurting at all. She's rather happy and enjoying her life.
You have no clue how she feels. Maybe she is miserable but strong enough not to show around you. Because she HAS to be...
One of my female coworkers was a WAS. She left an extremely unhappy and unhealthy M where the XH had PTSD and she actually was afraid of him. When she told me her story (I reached out to gain some insight on what could be going on in my XW's mind) she said "that big dark hole you're in right now. She'll get there too eventually, trust me"
Back when I was going through S I would come on here and talk about how my W was different, how she was 100% sure of herself, confident in what she was doing, ice cold, solid, immovable, enjoying her life without me. I had never seen her so resolute about ANYTHING. People here kept saying "that's what she looks like on the OUTSIDE, but INSIDE she is confused and in turmoil. Emotions are swirling." Like you I just didn't believe it. I believed what I saw, I believed what she said. I didn't believe the people here. At one point well after S, W reach out and was thinking about recon and we went to Retrouvaille. A big part of R is really opening up about your emotions and sharing them with your partner. In my case I got rare insights into what a WAS goes through. While she looked like the Rock of Gibralter around me, every night she was crying herself to sleep. She was in immense turmoil over what she was doing and second-guessing herself a thousand times a day. It was killing her to see me hurting so much because she DID still have feelings for me, which just made it all that much more difficult. She felt like she had to show me an icy facade to make it easier for me to accept she was leaving. She was afraid to show a chink in the armor, but it took everything she could muster to put up that facade around me. People here, they know what they're talking about. Sandi's rules are dead on. Michele's books may not -sound- right, but they are. Trust in DB'ing and in these forums.
I actually skimmed through your sitch earlier today and saw this part. I could easily see the progress you made in those months and I am really happy for you how much you evolved.
I do believe your marriage was overall much more successful and happy than mine. You two were much further in your M too and also much older than us. I understand what you are saying but I don't think our sitches relate that well
I really wish people would just learn this one truth- your WAS is like this TEMPORARILY. She WILL change. What will determine your recon chances is whether you can wait that long. You can keep the road home paved and smooth, or you can put up roadblocks with "closed" signs. A lot of us (me included) do the latter because we get tired of waiting or just decide it's not worth it. People ask why there aren't more "success" (recon) stories, I truly believe it's because the LBS decided they were done. THERE IS NO REASON TO GIVE UP HOPE! If you want your M and you have the patience, chances are good you will get what you want. But it's not easy waiting, and even after recon it's not easy piecing.
Part of me does believe this, truly, really does. But the bigger part does not see it and only thinks her OM is going to marry her in a few years from now. I think this has a much higher chance than her ever turning back to me. Scariest part is that I'm not all that emotional anymore for that happening, except for having to compete of being a dad to my S vs. the OM since S is so young.
But then again, DB is for me and not for her. It doesn't matter if she comes back or not, that's not why I change myself. I change for myself, by myself and because of myself.
You have no clue how she feels. Maybe she is miserable but strong enough not to show around you. Because she HAS to be...
One of my female coworkers was a WAS. She left an extremely unhappy and unhealthy M where the XH had PTSD and she actually was afraid of him. When she told me her story (I reached out to gain some insight on what could be going on in my XW's mind) she said "that big dark hole you're in right now. She'll get there too eventually, trust me"
It's true that I don't know how she feels, I can only go by how she looks and interacts. She could either feel happy or really sad. If she has someone to replace me, then she probably feels quite happy.
I think she already was in the dark hole I'm in now. She already processed these feelings when she decided to divorce me. She explained me how she would cry at morning when I was sleeping or when I was at work.
Hey lcause. This stuff anotherstander is saying is true. My WW was acting like she was Kim Kardashian at first. All these fancy clothes, hair, look at me stuff. She was high and mighty. Now she looks like she lives on the streets. She couldn't keep up the wall forever. Now she cries all the time and not taking care of herself. Her real life is taking over now.
If you want this be prepared to wait it out. I've been waiting for 10 months but doing the DB techniques for about two. Who knows if we reconcile but her animosity towards me lessens every time I see her. She looks worse every time I see her. She says her life [censored]. Point I'm trying to make is don't worry about how she's acting right now if your willing to hold out. Your W may come around. Sounds like you are doing pretty good right now. If you can get past the beginning shock, road will get smoother.
The process does get restless at times. I can tell you I am right now. No sex and affection [censored]. I have women calling me now and its tough. Im trying to keep my sights on M though. Just working on myself and doing my best to ignore distractions.
Part of me does believe this, truly, really does. But the bigger part does not see it and only thinks her OM is going to marry her in a few years from now. I think this has a much higher chance than her ever turning back to me. Scariest part is that I'm not all that emotional anymore for that happening, except for having to compete of being a dad to my S vs. the OM since S is so young.
Most of us have that fear regarding the OM marriaging our XW but apparently it doesn't happen very often.
Regarding your S, don't worry. No one, particularly not a POSOM, can compete with daddy.
Thanks everyone for the support
Hey lcause. This stuff anotherstander is saying is true. My WW was acting like she was Kim Kardashian at first. All these fancy clothes, hair, look at me stuff. She was high and mighty. Now she looks like she lives on the streets. She couldn't keep up the wall forever. Now she cries all the time and not taking care of herself. Her real life is taking over now.
If you want this be prepared to wait it out. I've been waiting for 10 months but doing the DB techniques for about two. Who knows if we reconcile but her animosity towards me lessens every time I see her. She looks worse every time I see her. She says her life [censored]. Point I'm trying to make is don't worry about how she's acting right now if your willing to hold out. Your W may come around. Sounds like you are doing pretty good right now. If you can get past the beginning shock, road will get smoother.
Somehow I feel my sitch is just so different. Maybe this is something what everyone says? My XW has quite a lot of friends and she's really level-headed so I doubt she'd ever end up in a situation like that. Only way I see that happening is if her (possible) OM dumps her.
The process does get restless at times. I can tell you I am right now. No sex and affection [censored]. I have women calling me now and its tough. Im trying to keep my sights on M though. Just working on myself and doing my best to ignore distractions.
Man, you are strong. I would probably have sex if I had women calling.
Gladly, I don't.
Haha believe me it gets harder every day but I was a dog before I met my W so Im trying to change that:)
My W has been doing the same thing - putting up the front that she is so happy and has made the best decision to move out. 6 weeks ago she sent an email saying this exact thing and that she was ready to make the separation permanent. 2 weeks later, after I stopped pursuing she sent a text saying things were really hard for her and she missed me. I now have a little confirmation of what people have been telling me on these boards. The WAS is in turmoil, emotionally.
I know how hard it is to listen to all the people on here giving you this advice. But they know what they are talking about. I am 6 months into this and I am finally starting to feel like I will be ok either way this goes. And I look back at advice I was given here a month ago and its making more sense.
Sounds like you are up for the challenge of making yourself the best version of yourself. That is to be commended, it isn't easy work so read and grow!
My W has been doing the same thing - putting up the front that she is so happy and has made the best decision to move out. 6 weeks ago she sent an email saying this exact thing and that she was ready to make the separation permanent. 2 weeks later, after I stopped pursuing she sent a text saying things were really hard for her and she missed me. I now have a little confirmation of what people have been telling me on these boards. The WAS is in turmoil, emotionally.
I know how hard it is to listen to all the people on here giving you this advice. But they know what they are talking about. I am 6 months into this and I am finally starting to feel like I will be ok either way this goes. And I look back at advice I was given here a month ago and its making more sense.
Sounds like you are up for the challenge of making yourself the best version of yourself. That is to be commended, it isn't easy work so read and grow!
Thanks. I do understand all the help people are giving me. I really do. It's not about that. It's the FEAR that's kicking in all the time. I LOVE my family. I WANT us to be a family. I LOST my family most likely for good. I know I can survive, I'm not dying because of this. I don't NEED my family to be together in order to survive. Fear of the future just really, really hurts so much. Seeing her having fun with a new husband in my mind is really something that makes me feel sick.
I read your case earlier - I don't think yours has/had an A? I think this would be so much easier if there were no OMs/APs.
For my sanity (and thus GAL/detaching) and the possible recon. Maybe subconsciously feeling that she wouldn't be happy either would help me. But that's a far fetched idea because if she has an A, she is on the top of her world currently.
I also feel that I'm a bit obsessed now to these forums. I need to spend only 30min reading these at certain time of the day. I end up getting here once an hour which really is not good.
Ok, I'll leave these points here for the wise men and women to judge:
- Constantly online in WhatsApp
- When she's online and we were not separated, she used to smile to her phone until she noticed I could see her. Then she changed to "confused" face immediately, quite literally always
- Didn't want to take my D to a summer cottage because "I don't have many adult friends and I want to talk about adult things"
(D was feeling down so I asked whether she could come as well, XW has been "there" multiple times for a weekend, even going back to our M, twice)
- She shaved THAT area when she went there, caught her in M when I went to switch my S diaper, didn't really think about it then
- One day I went to change my S diaper and I noticed intimate area shaving gel (she never had that when we were M), she noticed that I noticed it - after I left I got a message "can I ask how you are feeling?"
- The front seat of her car is always pulled quite far back when the kids are with me. During that time she rarely visits WhatsApp, to the point of my D feeling down because urgent (for her) stuff is not getting an answer. I'm 6 foot, I don't have to pull it even close to back position, neither would her female friends
- Just took my kids for her and she came late, her hair was messed up and she was blushed at the chest area (I remember it happening after we had sex), she left with hair nicely put
I know I shouldn't be obsessing about this but it really hurts me and I keep constantly wondering about it - it really prevents me from healing. It would be easier to know the truth even when she doesn't have to tell it to me anymore. She said she wants to be completely honest and not hurt me... So being lied to is just, ouch. Hurts more than the A/R.
LC, maybe the best thing for you at this point is to imagine the worst case scenario is true- she's having an A. She probably is, even if not a PA they are almost always involved in at least an EA or even an IA (affair with an imagined partner). You haven't found any smoking gun evidence but there's enough there to assume it's happening. The question is, how does that knowledge change your approach? It shouldn't change anything, other than to maybe help you detach further.
I'm just not a person who can flip the switch of not thinking about it - because if she is involved with OM, then I literally do not want anything to do with her anymore. Never. It [censored] that I have to due to kids. I would know that there is no hope and moving on would be easier, dropping the rope would happen immediately, except for the hurt part. Personally, I don't understand how people can just take it so easily even to the point where they don't want to know and still keep the hope up even when there is one.
I might tell her those even if it risks my future chances for recon. I'm just so in limbo right now that I keep constantly thinking about it.
I'm just not a person who can flip the switch of not thinking about it - because if she is involved with OM, then I literally do not want anything to do with her anymore. Never.
sorry but I'm a little bit lost. I mean, I get that you find it hard not to obsess. (Believe me I get that!).
But you guys are already divorced I thought. I mean, I'm confused b/c sometimes I read your situation as if you are wondering about reconciling but your w acts as if she has moved on and has actually filed and you or she moved out, right?
I'm about to date and only a small part of me resists that b/c I'm not legally divorced yet. I certainly would not call it an "affair", not to mention that h is "in a relationship" on fb.
Am I missing something?
It [censored] that I have to due to kids. I would know that there is no hope and moving on would be easier, dropping the rope would happen immediately, except for the hurt part.
Personally, I don't understand how people can just take it so easily even to the point where they don't want to know and still keep the hope up even when there is one.
First off, no one - no one I know of, "can just take it so easily"
OMG seriously that's just not true.
Second, without stated remorse on the WAS part AND a desire to reconcile, reconciliations do not happen. To my knowledge anyhow.
I might tell her those even if it risks my future chances for recon. I'm just so in limbo right now that I keep constantly thinking about it.
Not sure what it would mean for you to move forward, or what holds you back, now.
But I can say this: Deciding to "move on" is not the same as no longer obsessing.
I'm not sure the switch flips then.
So just because she has filed the D, I can't keep up hope? I thought that was what we are doing here. Busting divorces. I guess not then.
Hey,
There's nothing wrong with hope but hoping and staying stuck vs hoping and moving forward are very different.
Trust me I know I'm there right now. It's [censored]. It's easier to give advice to others. If I followed my own I probably wouldn't be in the situation I am right now, who knows.
Point being you can still have hope for your M but you have to move forward wtb with your life as you will be getting a D. If that ends up not happening then great, but if it does then you're already on your way to healing and becoming the best you.
Right now she doesn't want you as her H. I know that hurts to hear. When people tell me that about my H it stings, but it gets less and less painful each time. By obsessing about her and what she's doing or not doing you are still making her the focus. It drives you to bad places. I still obsess (getting better) about these things. But we CANNOT controk them. And it really only hurts us in the end anyway. Just assume she's in one to SOME capacity.
I hope this helps. All of this [censored], we know... but there is hope. Here is light at the end of the tunnel.
Thanks for the comments AS, 25 and T384.
T384: I know, I know. I know. I really should move forward and stop obsessing. My point was that I think our cultures are different. I don't know a single couple who would have separated with one spouse not willing to work on the marriage, but still being married. If one of the spouses does not want to work on it, what's the point in staying married??? That's how it goes in here. There's still the 6m-1y "thinking period", where the D can be put through (well min 6m, max 1y). For example we didn't even try separation before D, D was filed before separation. I don't think my WAS is any different from others in here, just that the culture is different. Maybe I am wrong.
Yes, I think this eventually ends up in D going through on her part but it doesn't have to. I know I can't trust any of her words but "I never said we can't be a couple in the future" "time will show" "6 months can tell if this was the right decision" etc. are odd comments to make if they are dead-set on moving on.
Hope for the better future
I asked today if could take my kids out as the weather is super nice. I wonder if I am doing this correctly - 180 by being a much more attentive father who wants to take his kids out. Previously I was too lazy, and I hate myself for it - I love being out with the kids!
I know this has been discussed a lot of times but I have to ask: is validating enough for conversations? I feel like I have dropped the "bye" way too early in our conversations, which have been quite short. My wife has sent me a couple of messages later on each time. Should I wait for her to speak more or am I doing it right? Should I share what I did with the kids even if she doesn't ask (as she has always sent a message afterwards how the day went) or just share the important matters (when they ate, how the S slept).
I asked today if could take my kids out as the weather is super nice. I wonder if I am doing this correctly - 180 by being a much more attentive father who wants to take his kids out.
Well yeah, spending more time with your kids can never be wrong regardless of the status of your M!
I know this has been discussed a lot of times but I have to ask: is validating enough for conversations? I feel like I have dropped the "bye" way too early in our conversations, which have been quite short. My wife has sent me a couple of messages later on each time. Should I wait for her to speak more or am I doing it right? Should I share what I did with the kids even if she doesn't ask (as she has always sent a message afterwards how the day went) or just share the important matters (when they ate, how the S slept).
Give her time and space. Do not initiate conversations with her. If she initiates then just listen and (if it calls for it) validate. When you have the kids don't send her pictures of what y'all are doing, don't send her updates, don't send her info on what they ate or how they slept or ANYTHING. It sounds to me like you're looking for excuses to contact her and you want us to give you permission. NO, DO NOT CONTACT HER. Leave her alone. It's what she wants right now.
I recommend not contacting. You want her to see photos of you and kids having fun. Then post those photos on FB without tagging her. Spending time with your children is for you an them. But there is nothing wrong with letting the world seeing you all have fun. And if your W just happens to be in the world seeing that, then that's even better.
Thanks.
Give her time and space. Do not initiate conversations with her. If she initiates then just listen and (if it calls for it) validate. When you have the kids don't send her pictures of what y'all are doing, don't send her updates, don't send her info on what they ate or how they slept or ANYTHING. It sounds to me like you're looking for excuses to contact her and you want us to give you permission. NO, DO NOT CONTACT HER. Leave her alone. It's what she wants right now.
Yeah, I know the rules. I just... it's a bit annoying that she messages me every time afterwards asking the questions I could've said. Of course I share what they have eaten because she needs to know that (especially the S) and how S has slept, if the bottles have been used and whatnot. But that's it, I don't share anything more except when she asks afterwards.
Lol. I failed at weekend. I broke the screen of my phone and my friend sent a message asking where I am, I should join them to a concert. I pressed it but somehow it opened WhatsApp to the conv between my wife and I. I meant to send my friend an inside joke (everyone knows it in here) about the artist and told "him" that I broke my phone's screen...
My XW seemed extremely interested about it asking a few questions etc. Almost like she was scared I was seeing someone else... Even though I told her when we discussed the last time that I am not ready for an R, but I think the WAS trusts 0% of what LBSs say and only half of what they do, as well.
I recommend not contacting. You want her to see photos of you and kids having fun. Then post those photos on FB without tagging her. Spending time with your children is for you an them. But there is nothing wrong with letting the world seeing you all have fun. And if your W just happens to be in the world seeing that, then that's even better.
I think uploading the photos to my FB would come up as a way of indirectly messaging her, since the last update I've done was at 2011. I don't use FB and I don't have photos of my kids online (I don't particularly feel good about uploading photos of my kids online).
I could of course revamp my FB profile, as I eventually have to anyways. Everyone is there and it's odd if someone isn't. I haven't seen a particularly good reason to be active in social media.
I felt like writing more today:
So I took my kids out as it was a nice day. Bought an ice cream for my D and we went to do some "parkour"
When I took them back my XW asked if I could help feed S since XW had some headache. Said of course because I want to be with the kids as much as I can.
Now, I need to clarify a bit what I've written in the past. I don't think I hate my previous ex that much because she cheated on me... more so because it was with my then-best friend who I had been best friends since we were 5 years old or so. To this day, I haven't been able to start our friendship again. He said later that he was sorry and that the previous ex is a b&#%¤! (they were together less than a year). This was in 2011. He asked me to go drink some whiskey at his place but I haven't spoken with him since, he never contacted me again. I don't think I could really keep him as a close friend anymore.
But you guys are already divorced I thought. I mean, I'm confused b/c sometimes I read your situation as if you are wondering about reconciling but your w acts as if she has moved on and has actually filed and you or she moved out, right?
I'm about to date and only a small part of me resists that b/c I'm not legally divorced yet. I certainly would not call it an "affair", not to mention that h is "in a relationship" on fb.
Am I missing something?
25, as you are one of the most knowledgeable ones in here, I wanted to ask you: is my situation more hopeless than when compared to the other ones? If you read my explanation of the cultural difference when it comes to marriage and divorce (for example, we are not religious at all), does this situation sound so much different than other WAS cases? Also, we do not lose any money in divorce, except for me as I have to buy everything
Curious: is the WAS trying to alleviate some guilt by saying things like "I never said we can't be a couple in the future" "future shows" etc? My WAS has never said that she hates me or that I was the only problem in our marriage. She also claims to remember good parts. Originally when I told her that I'm going to change for myself and agreed that future shows, also that I love my family and would like to see us together someday, she told me "those sound like a good plan". It is probably just an act and the script is playing behind the cover. I also know I can't trust these at all, but I find it odd that my XW doesn't seem to really hate me at all. She doesn't temp check either, but she does send pictures of the kids etc. There has been like 2 x 1 day without a contact, but otherwise she always finds a way to send something about the kids.
...for what I know, all this could be a misdirection to get me believing something/keeping me as a plan B while she is actively trying to build an R with someone else. Who knows. The odd thing is that day by day this thought is getting less and less severe effects in my stomach. Maybe this is the detaching people keep mentioning?
Been reading DR and noticing so many points. It's so odd. Most of this is almost common sense - still it isn't when you are in marriage and can't see past yourself! It's odd... Some of the stuff still makes me emotional and wishing that my XW would be reading the same book with the same mindset. But I am so glad I found this because I'm certainly going to be a much better spouse the next time, holy cow.
But you guys are already divorced I thought. I mean, I'm confused b/c sometimes I read your situation as if you are wondering about reconciling but your w acts as if she has moved on and has actually filed and you or she moved out, right?
I'm about to date and only a small part of me resists that b/c I'm not legally divorced yet. I certainly would not call it an "affair", not to mention that h is "in a relationship" on fb.
Am I missing something?
25, as you are one of the most knowledgeable ones in here, I wanted to ask you: is my situation more hopeless than when compared to the other ones? If you read my explanation of the cultural difference when it comes to marriage and divorce (for example, we are not religious at all), does this situation sound so much different than other WAS cases? Also, we do not lose any money in divorce, except for me as I have to buy everything
Most couples who come here do not end up in restored, happy marriages. But some do.
In your case your wife has, from day one, held out hope that you will change - in ways that sound pretty reasonable (based on your own descriptions).
She still does.Curious: is the WAS trying to alleviate some
guilt by saying things like "I never said we can't be a couple in the future" "future shows" etc? My WAS has never said that she hates me or that I was the only problem in our marriage.
Imo, it's NOT guilt. Either she has sincere hope you can step up to the plate,
and or she sees you as option B
Option B may feel really bad to hear and it might be bad in reality.
It might also be that her hopes for real change on your part, are dwindling.
She also claims to remember good parts.
Then thank God.Originally when I told her that I'm going to change for myself and agreed that future shows, also that I love my family and would like to see us together someday, she told me
"those sound like a good plan". It is probably just an act and the script is playing behind the cover.
are you trying to talk yourself out of changing, or what?? I also know I can't trust these at all, but I find it odd that my XW doesn't seem to really hate me at all. She doesn't temp check either, but she does send pictures of the kids etc. There has been like 2 x 1 day without a contact, but otherwise she always finds a way to send something about the kids.
Work on you and be grateful you got the BD while there might still be time...use it wisely
Most couples who come here do not end up in restored, happy marriages. But some do.
In your case your wife has, from day one, held out hope that you will change - in ways that sound pretty reasonable (based on your own descriptions).
Imo, it's NOT guilt. Either she has sincere hope you can step up to the plate,
and or she sees you as option B
Option B may feel really bad to hear and it might be bad in reality.
It might also be that her hopes for real change on your part, are dwindling.
Then thank God.
are you trying to talk yourself out of changing, or what??
Work on you and be grateful you got the BD while there might still be time...use it wisely
Oh, it sounds that way? Well, we are separated etc. so it obviously doesn't FEEL that way for me, but your comment was nice to read. Of course we don't know how she feels but sure does feel good to hear something like that. And obviously most couples do not end back together, no matter what people say - it's still far more common to end up divorced - since it technically is "too little, too late" especially in WAS cases. Luck plays a really big part in it too. The WAS can always find a "better" spouse who can support their needs before the doubt appears/LBS has changed enough/LBS is attractive for them.
Being a plan B is really bad, indeed. Unless plan B eventually turns up as plan A, of course. If it turns to be more towards a WW case later on, I'm not going to be a doormat, I've never been like that - not with my previous ex either.
No, no, no. You got me wrong. I am not trying to stop changing, of course not! If I don't change, my entire future is ruined no matter who I end up being with or where I end up going! I just speculated that there is a possibility since we never know... if it is GUILT ALLEVIATION, then it could be that she wants to make me "feel good" but "not hope too much". Like soften the blow, even if it ironically is really the other way around (certainly dealing with the worst from the get go is easier). If you know what I mean.
I am really grateful about the BD because it made me realize what I need from life. What my priorities SHOULD be and what parts of my life are really irrelevant. It is just kind of ironic how it really needs something like this... maybe depression and longer term problems in marriage just make people feel too accustomed to their life/too accepting to stop pursuing their dreams and goals.
Ok... Again I got sucked to R talk. I validated her feelings and didn't ask for anything about future etc. Just tried to validate as best as I could...
...
She has seen someone a few times. She thinks it feels odd, to think about having a new R as there's so much to deal with this divorce. I validated. She said she doesn't know if they are going to meet again or not.
She said that she feels extremely guilty how she broke the family and how she did this to only find her own happiness. I validated.
She said that we never know what happens though, but she feels extremely pessimistic about us getting back together as the feelings just faded. I validated.
I knew there was someone else. And to be honest, as I said, it feels better to know. Now I'm going to drop the rope and continue my life eventually dating other women. I'll pop here to read other sitches but this is done, outside of me GALing and DBing for myself
I'm just so perplexed how she could find someone that apparently would be a good stepfather for my kids in barely just few months... "Coincidence", she says.
It feels so bad currently... but still better than constantly thinking about it. At least now I can handle this immediately and stop hoping entirely...
She went on and rambled some usual bs about how "we never know what future brings, I believe that it is possible that we find each other again but it is not now and the feelings are gone. It just requires us to find each other again"...
Why say you want the best for the other but then say something as hurting as this?
She give any more details about other man? Like when they started etc?
icause - do you have a history of depression? The reason I ask is that reading your posts I see three things...a sort of muted level of emotion, a focus on the negative e.g. saying you're technically divorced when actually it isn't yet final and a kind of confirmation bias where the 'negatives' seem to shout louder than the positives? When your W (and if you're not legally free to remarry yet, she is still your wife!) talked at BD, did she say anything about feeling she hadn't been getting attention or emotion from you, that you had been self-absorbed or difficult to reach?
If any of this chimes with you...then I suggest you do two things pronto. Find yourself an IC to help you unfold your way out of depression and learn to feel big emotions. Depression tends to mean a life in pastels rather than bold colours! And, without being an idiot and accepting that there might be an A, decide and commit wholeheartedly to what you REALLY want? Boots full in either way, even if you fail. If you want to save your M, set that as your goal. If you don't, focus on DBing anyway to heal and be a good parent with your W whatever happens. If you're not sure, figure out what you need to know or feel to be sure.
I don't want to be unkind, and I know you're hurting, but there is a sort of passive giving up feeling in your posts...and I'm not sure that's the whole truth of how you feel or how your W might feel either. In a way her comment about 'find each other again' is a pretty big clue...what bits of the You she fell in love with have got lost and how can you reclaim those bits of you? And what bits of her do you think she might feel got lost and might be trying to find?
Nothing really. Only that she wouldn't have done it for me to stay married and be with someone else, so in the past 2 months... which is bs in my opinion. Also that she is surprised how quickly she found him.
Only that he is not a course mate in university, not any old friend and it was a coincidence... Which is either bs or she went on dating sites looking for someone because she was always everywhere with a less than a 6 months old baby.
icause - do you have a history of depression? The reason I ask is that reading your posts I see three things...a sort of muted level of emotion, a focus on the negative e.g. saying you're technically divorced when actually it isn't yet final and a kind of confirmation bias where the 'negatives' seem to shout louder than the positives? When your W (and if you're not legally free to remarry yet, she is still your wife!) talked at BD, did she say anything about feeling she hadn't been getting attention or emotion from you, that you had been self-absorbed or difficult to reach? If any of this chimes with you...then I suggest you do two things pronto. Find yourself an IC to help you unfold your way out of depression and learn to feel big emotions. Depression tends to mean a life in pastels rather than bold colours!
Yes, I've seen a doctor about depression, but I don't have medication. I was depressed but I am healing.
Yes she said it felt bad that I was always feeling negative. I feel positive about everything else in my life currently but not about this sitch.
And, without being an idiot and accepting that there might be an A, decide and commit wholeheartedly to what you REALLY want? Boots full in either way, even if you fail. If you want to save your M, set that as your goal. If you don't, focus on DBing anyway to heal and be a good parent with your W whatever happens. If you're not sure, figure out what you need to know or feel to be sure.
There is an A, or rather a beginning of a new R as I said few posts earlier
I wanted to save my marriage but now that I know she's seeing someone just after a few months after our BD, it doesn't seem likely and I don't have any hope left. Of course I will DB because that's the only thing that is a) common sense and b) gets me over this.
I don't want to be unkind, and I know you're hurting, but there is a sort of passive giving up feeling in your posts...and I'm not sure that's the whole truth of how you feel or how your W might feel either. In a way her comment about 'find each other again' is a pretty big clue...what bits of the You she fell in love with have got lost and how can you reclaim those bits of you? And what bits of her do you think she might feel got lost and might be trying to find?
I doubt it's a clue. It feels more like guilt alleviation or making me feel better for now... until later she doesn't have to think about that anymore because I'm over us. I doubt she really feels that way because trust 0%.
Hi lcause,
I have been reading your posts from the beginning and it seems that you have been actively searching for reasons to give up this entire time. I guess that your depression and self confidence is speaking, but why give up so soon? You and your W just filed for D. And as you say, DB , being a happier and confident goal-oriented person as well as being a good parent is the way to go either way.
However, as I have read before on this site, letting go might be a really good thing for you. But not losing all hope. It is complicated to balance though, since it feels like these mindsets are opposites.
There is a good chance that she's looking for a rebound. Or she developed feelings for the new guy before you split up, it is just speculation. And if it gets serious, the new guy has to compete with you in everything since you will be involved in their life because of the kids. She does not have to think about every new man as a step father, it could just be interest from her sida and keeping the kids out of the equation for now.
I do understand your thoughts about other men and your W moving on so quickly. I think that my W hasn't met anyone yet (maybe has feelings or flirted a little bit) but i cannot know. It's eating me up from inside on certain days but I try to think that it doesn't matter. Even if we are waiting for the D to be finalized (6 months) as well, we are also separated and my W can date if she would like to. That doesn't mean I would like it though... But I think that my W is in the same spot as your, that the relationship has been over for quite some time and that they have been processing this during this time.
We have been separated now for 2,5 months, but I can't see myself dating anyone else yet. I think that you might be rushing into dating if you think about it already. But everyone is different. Take some time to take care of yourself and new or old loves will take care of its own. I had the most luck regarding love in my life when I was happy and really did not care about meeting someone. It just happened.
I totally get your sitch from a cultural perspective, I strongly suspect that we live in the same country in the northern part of Europe.
Good luck with everything!
"I doubt it's a clue."....What if you're wrong? What harm would it do to think about it?
Hi lcause,
I have been reading your posts from the beginning and it seems that you have been actively searching for reasons to give up this entire time. I guess that your depression and self confidence is speaking, but why give up so soon? You and your W just filed for D. And as you say, DB , being a happier and confident goal-oriented person as well as being a good parent is the way to go either way.
Because I truly do know my wife and if she met someone, it's not just a one-off date, it's far more likely it's life-time R unless the guy turns up being a jerk later on... Also, it just hurts so much that I feel like closing the door is better for myself regardless.
It just feels so... absurd. Finding a new one this fast? I certainly deserve something better. She's not what I want anymore.
However, as I have read before on this site, letting go might be a really good thing for you. But not losing all hope. It is complicated to balance though, since it feels like these mindsets are opposites.
Yeah, it's highly counter intuitive. Let go but keep up hope? For me, letting go to means the same as moving on. Moving forward is not something I can understand either... I either am feeling something towards her - or not. And when I don't feel anything anymore, I'm certainly not going back. I don't think I'll get my feelings back after I've lost them once - just like I doubt she will. Especially now that she's dating and eventually I am too.
There is a good chance that she's looking for a rebound. Or she developed feelings for the new guy before you split up, it is just speculation. And if it gets serious, the new guy has to compete with you in everything since you will be involved in their life because of the kids. She does not have to think about every new man as a step father, it could just be interest from her sida and keeping the kids out of the equation for now.
Maybe or maybe not... I just... It feels so much like she never even appreciated our R at all if she's already dating and found someone. What are the odds? I go thinking that she was already looking way before the BD dropped.
I do understand your thoughts about other men and your W moving on so quickly. I think that my W hasn't met anyone yet (maybe has feelings or flirted a little bit) but i cannot know. It's eating me up from inside on certain days but I try to think that it doesn't matter. Even if we are waiting for the D to be finalized (6 months) as well, we are also separated and my W can date if she would like to. That doesn't mean I would like it though... But I think that my W is in the same spot as your, that the relationship has been over for quite some time and that they have been processing this during this time.
Yeah it's probably like you said. They have processed it through and are ready to jump into another R. I'm just... so perplexed. I think it's gonna take me 2-5 years to find anyone new that I like - somehow she ended up finding someone right away.
We have been separated now for 2,5 months, but I can't see myself dating anyone else yet. I think that you might be rushing into dating if you think about it already. But everyone is different. Take some time to take care of yourself and new or old loves will take care of its own. I had the most luck regarding love in my life when I was happy and really did not care about meeting someone. It just happened.
I'm not dating yet, but if their situation progresses, I might. Just one-nighters or similar. I don't want to feel alone and new casual R would definitely help me to get further faster. I'm not looking for a new M or anything like that, just friendship and sex
Maybe. It just doesn't feel like that now. It feels so bad to be left behind.
I totally get your sitch from a cultural perspective, I strongly suspect that we live in the same country in the northern part of Europe.
I suspect you are from the neighbor country, at least based on your name
Quite close though.
Good luck with everything!
Thanks and you too! Thanks for commenting to my sitch!
"I doubt it's a clue."....What if you're wrong? What harm would it do to think about it?
She wouldn't date others if that's what she really means. We can't trust anything they say. It feels more like guilt alleviation than a genuine "what-if" thought. She tries to make me feel better. I just don't understand why say it - it hurts as she has to realize it's creating more unneeded hope. It's almost like she wants me to keep me as plan B if she a) doesn't find the happiness she was after or b) if the new guy doesn't turn up to be a good dude after all. In either case, I'm long gone. I won't accept being someone she can fall to if her other options didn't work. I'm a f* prize after I've DBd. Someone will get a super good spouse, who knows how to really care about the R he is in!
I do understand it now though. I do have to let it go. I can't control her at all (I know I'm probably a broken record), but this is just the 2x4 I really needed. She wants to find her happiness.
I don't know if it's pathetic or rather "arrogant", but this just gave me a lot more motivation to be the best LC I can be. I want to really show them all that who I am and what I can accomplish. Maybe it's the anger kicking in - I don't know.
Now I'm going to sauna with my daughter, she's at my place for the weekend. Having fun and I'm really missing my children all the time they are not with me.
XW just texted that I shouldn't feel terrible that she contributed to the fall of the marriage too. She said that she doesn't think that we grew apart but that we didn't have the tools to nurture the R and neither one of us valued what we had. Validation and I agree.
Well, she seems to be understanding her problems already... Maybe the new R is going to last now that she actually knows her problems.
AS she contributed. And more like knew how to value, not value. Of course we valued what we had :P But basically just taking for granted.
I am feeling so down right now. Just walked my D back to my XWs place.
It feels so bad to be replaced by someone else. All the dreams destroyed, all the hope lost. I feel that she's been with the OM for the weekend. With my S.
I just can't understand how you can find someone new this quickly and why? Would be a huge coincidence since who would just randomly go to talk to soon-to-be-divorced woman with a 5-6 months old baby? What kind of a man does this? I would never do this because I know it would be messed up in so many ways (doubt the woman is entirely over the M, a baby and the feelings of the ex).
I don't understand how I am supposed to get over this. Felt already much better... now I am so down again. So so down. Where do I get the willpower to do anything else than to stare the walls and sob?
I am feeling so down right now. Just walked my D back to my XWs place.
It feels so bad to be replaced by someone else. All the dreams destroyed, all the hope lost. I feel that she's been with the OM for the weekend. With my S.
I just can't understand how you can find someone new this quickly and why? Would be a huge coincidence since who would just randomly go to talk to soon-to-be-divorced woman with a 5-6 months old baby? What kind of a man does this? I would never do this because I know it would be messed up in so many ways (doubt the woman is entirely over the M, a baby and the feelings of the ex).
I don't understand how I am supposed to get over this. Felt already much better... now I am so down again. So so down. Where do I get the willpower to do anything else than to stare the walls and sob?
You'll get over it with time. Just accept for yourself that it is in fact going to take some time. We all started our journey by staring at the walls (sometimes I still do, 8 months down the line, but is fading more and more, day by day).
You dont know OM's intentions. Maybe he's just taking advantage of a vulnarable woman. Who knows. And maybe her seing her problems can lead the way back to you for a new improved R. Nobody knows anything about the future.
But You can speed up your process. And you can make the best possible future for yourself. With or without W. Just listen to all the advice her regarding GAL etc.
And where to find the will power?
Maybe you should listen to this guy's advice:
I don't know if it's pathetic or rather "arrogant", but this just gave me a lot more motivation to be the best LC I can be. I want to really show them all that who I am and what I can accomplish
Then use that ;-)
Hi lcause,
I'm thinking about you and can relate a lot to your sitch. It feels awful to be is this position!
But I think that you are trying to mind read and you spend WAY to much time thinking about her and what she's doing. It's sad but it's not your business at the moment. Your job is to take care of yourself and your kids. You cannot know how she feels about OM, yourself and your family. Do not trust anything she says and only parts of what she does. No matter how much you think you know your W, this is a crisis for her as well (even if you get the impression that she's currently happy) and ppl act differently in crisis than they normally does.
25 told me about searching for videos about positive psychology and power posture on youtube. Could be something for you?
How's job searching? Remember you wrote something earlier about this. I think getting a career will be really important for your self-confidence.
Just go out! Go to a café, library, cinema, concerts, meet friends and family if possible. You need human contact, just saying "hi" and smile to an elderly woman (and making her day) is better than staying at home.
How's your GAL overall? I get the impression that you spend to much time obsessing over W and what she's doing, how she's feeling and thinking. As you say, there's only one person you can control. And living the best possible life for yourself and your kids is the way to go - regardless of what W thinks/does/says. And DOING is the only way you can influence her. Try not to tell her about your life and what you are doing to improve yourself.
Do you contact her on occasion? Try to minimize contact. Make a schedule for the kids and keep it. Do not engage with her when you are seeing your kids unless neccessary. Keep your cool, and make plans with kids or after being with kids so you cannot stay behind and talk. It won't help you.
However, this is easier said than done! I know that. But if I plan for a bunch of GAL activities, I will usually manage to do like 50% of it.
I hope you will feel stronger again soon!
You'll get over it with time. Just accept for yourself that it is in fact going to take some time. We all started our journey by staring at the walls (sometimes I still do, 8 months down the line, but is fading more and more, day by day).
You dont know OM's intentions. Maybe he's just taking advantage of a vulnarable woman. Who knows. And maybe her seing her problems can lead the way back to you for a new improved R. Nobody knows anything about the future.
But You can speed up your process. And you can make the best possible future for yourself. With or without W. Just listen to all the advice her regarding GAL etc.
And where to find the will power?
Maybe you should listen to this guy's advice:
I don't know if it's pathetic or rather "arrogant", but this just gave me a lot more motivation to be the best LC I can be. I want to really show them all that who I am and what I can accomplish
Then use that ;-)
Thanks. Well... I don't know. If they end up more together, it feels like a death blow. I can already picture them getting married... it really does hurt. So much.
Currently just being so emotional. She has everything in her world and I have nothing. I miss my kids, I miss my wife, I miss my life. I will never score as a good chick as her. And all the time my kids are with me I'm so overwhelmed with it. Play with the D and constantly keep watching after S... all alone.
I fall again on watching the stupid WhatsApp. She wasn't on at all the weekend - my D waited an answer for an hour. Now that she's at a birthday party with all the relatives and both my kids, somehow she's constantly on WhatsApp. So much for "seeing each other a few times", right?
Hi lcause,
I'm thinking about you and can relate a lot to your sitch. It feels awful to be is this position!
But I think that you are trying to mind read and you spend WAY to much time thinking about her and what she's doing. It's sad but it's not your business at the moment. Your job is to take care of yourself and your kids. You cannot know how she feels about OM, yourself and your family. Do not trust anything she says and only parts of what she does. No matter how much you think you know your W, this is a crisis for her as well (even if you get the impression that she's currently happy) and ppl act differently in crisis than they normally does.
25 told me about searching for videos about positive psychology and power posture on youtube. Could be something for you?
How's job searching? Remember you wrote something earlier about this. I think getting a career will be really important for your self-confidence.
Just go out! Go to a café, library, cinema, concerts, meet friends and family if possible. You need human contact, just saying "hi" and smile to an elderly woman (and making her day) is better than staying at home.
How's your GAL overall? I get the impression that you spend to much time obsessing over W and what she's doing, how she's feeling and thinking. As you say, there's only one person you can control. And living the best possible life for yourself and your kids is the way to go - regardless of what W thinks/does/says. And DOING is the only way you can influence her. Try not to tell her about your life and what you are doing to improve yourself.
Do you contact her on occasion? Try to minimize contact. Make a schedule for the kids and keep it. Do not engage with her when you are seeing your kids unless neccessary. Keep your cool, and make plans with kids or after being with kids so you cannot stay behind and talk. It won't help you.
However, this is easier said than done! I know that. But if I plan for a bunch of GAL activities, I will usually manage to do like 50% of it.
I hope you will feel stronger again soon!
Thanks. I know I spent way too much time thinking what my wife is doing, but I can't help it. I don't have any GALs that would do it, and those would either be dating a new one or being drunk/with friends. I don't really have friends and I rarely see others. So when I'm "GALing" by doing something alone I like, I still think about her and the OM all the time. And the life I'm missing.
Job searching does not go well. Nothing. I think I need to study again. I'm so lost. It would be a huge confidence boost, but it's just so impossible.
I don't want to go anywhere. I would be alone. It [censored]. My future just plain [censored]. I'm probably just gonna spend the rest of my life in my poor job and sit on my computer in my free-time.
I never imagined I would be in this situation. I never thought after the BD that my wife would meet someone so quickly. Obviously I knew it is a possibility that she'd find the new one in the future, but in mere 2 months??? This is all just so overwhelming.
I saw XW today when I went to take some stuff to my D that she left to my apartment. XW asked if I wanted to feed S and read a bed time story for D.
After that XW offered me some pizza and ice cream. She told me she sleeps very poorly as D&S sometimes fall asleep nearly midnight and S keeps waking her up constantly, that she rarely gets more sleep than an hour straight. D sometimes wakes XW&S up at 5am... I was stupid and feeling so bad for her that I offered to take D&S out tomorrow so she could take a nap daytime which she thanked me for.
Why is it that after I see her/spend time with her I immediately feel better? I would have thought I would be feeling even more down as it should remind me even more of what I can't have. Pretty odd. Maybe it's my subconscious tricking me thinking that "whatever, I'm with her right now!!!" or something similar.
Somehow the OM case makes me want to talk to her, but I guess that only pushes her towards the OM. I don't think I have any hope left. It's really hard to find someone worse a partner than I was, at least at the end, thus how could I ever be a better one for her? I think she's still very emotional about the sitch (D said mommy cries a lot) so it could be a rebound... but my luck the guy is on with it and it'll last.
I'm now really searching for a new job and possibly starting to take SSRIs. Haven't been able to sleep really since the second bomb dropped. The job would be a massive confidence boost and possibly pull me out of this completely if I would find something I enjoy.
I'm sorry to all the people who have commented to my sitch and for those who have followed or read this. I really appreciate your support and all the comments and help I've got. This board is currently the only proper source where I can push my emotions into, except for IC/therapy. I come out as a super emotional and I get that people don't want to comment to my sitch that much since it's just all whining.
I get that. I totally do. I wish I could just get over this but I really do love my XW and my family. The OM BD just really got me emotional and I haven't slept at all - I am sorry for that. My S, the baby is really what makes this all so hard for me.
I do know I need to GAL, I do take all the advice but I just can't somehow act on it
I cry a lot and wish the time would just skip a year or two. Maybe this is all normal. I don't know. I really wish I would have hope. This family is my dream , but currently it is a nightmare where I try to catch them but I just fall down to the abyss.
One thing made me smile a bit - a year, two, three from now - if these boards are still up, I'm really curious to read all this through in my new life. I went through multiple posts and noticed some people were still super attached to their ex's 3 years from the BD which made me feel bad.
I guess I will eventually find my place. It just hurts so much right now to be substituted by someone else - my S WILL start calling her dad since he is so young. That is probably what hurts the most. I seriously don't understand my WAS - she understands that men can change after BD, she even told me that she read men need a big bomb before they realize and then it's too late. She told me she knows her faults and it was not mine only. She knows she didn't value the R either, but she had very deep love on me as she waited for so long for me to change but still was happy overall. She still says she believes we can eventually find each other again if the situation is right. She does not hate me and asks me to tell her how I feel... I don't understand. I thought the script was that the WAS absolutely hates the LBS? Mine likes me as a person, as a dad but just doesn't have the feelings one should feel for their spouse.
It is so confusing. I know I should stop wondering. I know people are really frustrated with me. I know. I guess I need to take a break from these forums and find another source to vent. Sorry.
calling him dad as S is too young. I guess I should proof-read a bit more...
I'm not always the best person for advice based on where I am right now, but I would say - become the best version of you, who she fell in love with. I sometimes struggle with remembering that person because there weren't all the responsibilities we share together now when we first met our S.
Anyway, just remember you two have a lot tying you together, especially a young baby. My baby is only 2 months and my hormones are all over the place so I imagine your W may be dealing with the same still especially if she's breastfeeding. My OB told me to not expect to return to 'normal' until his first birthday!
The S has to believe things would be better and different if they came back. They have to see you as the better choice. IMO it is by moving on without them, being friendly but distant in interactions, letting them see you having fun and interacting with others so they can think they want to get in on being apart of your life. People want what they don't think they can have. Sandi spent a lot of time talking about that with me on my threads.
OM can't compare to you because he doesn't have the history you have, the kids, heck a new baby! Just be the best version of you, any man that would engage with a woman that has a new baby isn't someone of a high moral compass and his true colors will show. I remember people telling me last time to step back and let OW meet all of H's needs, that it would speed up the demise of their R... they were sure right.
Believe me your NOT crazy, weird, or pathetic. I skipped a week of work when I found out. Cried, knocked bathroom door down, threatened OM, and too many other things that hopefully I can forget one day. By your words, I think your doing ok.
Id like to challenge you to do something this week that's out of your norm. You mentioned job, how about you physically show up somewhere and say Id like to talk to the manager. That's just an example but just try one thing for your confidence. Once I started doing little things the bigger results followed. Of course I'm not 100% but I'm far from the mess I was months ago.
Why is it that after I see her/spend time with her I immediately feel better? I would have thought I would be feeling even more down as it should remind me even more of what I can't have. Pretty odd. Maybe it's my subconscious tricking me thinking that "whatever, I'm with her right now!!!" or something similar.
Yeah, the familiarity and closeness is comforting, especially after BD. Eventually that'll go away and it'll feel more like going to visit a neighbor rather than your W.
I don't think I have any hope left. It's really hard to find someone worse a partner than I was, at least at the end, thus how could I ever be a better one for her?
Well you have an advantage over others, she was attracted to you in the first place so you already have whatever combo of traits she finds attractive. You just need to get back in touch with that guy she was attracted to.
I think she's still very emotional about the sitch (D said mommy cries a lot) so it could be a rebound... but my luck the guy is on with it and it'll last.
He's having an affair with a married woman. I promise you, he is not the shining example of manly man perfection she thinks he is. Every relationship that starts out as an affair with a married person is destined for failure.
and possibly starting to take SSRIs
They were the boost I needed to get me through the worst part. A couple of months after BD I inexplicably went from feeling OK to suddenly plunging into deep depression. There was no particular trigger, I was doing OK one day and suicidal the next. I got on SSRIs and about 4 weeks later I felt awesome, very much like my old self. I weaned off of them after a few months and never have had depression again. If you think you need a little help then go for it, there's no shame in it. Depression is an illness and SSRIs are medication.
I'm not always the best person for advice based on where I am right now, but I would say - become the best version of you, who she fell in love with. I sometimes struggle with remembering that person because there weren't all the responsibilities we share together now when we first met our S.
I've read your sitch and oh boy you're a strong woman and you've gone far. I admire you and your H is a scumbag for doing this for you. Twice!!!
I know who she fell in love to but that was mostly me texting her like crazy at the beginning. I've lost weight and my hairstyle is quite close to what it used to be. I'm actually more muscular and more lean in comparison! I've always tried to be upbeat in close to her, but I've fallen to moody texts at times
Hopefully those do not ruin my chances. She even mentioned that it's nice that I vent the stuff which is... lol. Either she cares about my feelings or she laughs at me.
I understand really well that it is hard to be the S we were in the beginning, but I think by GALing we end up being a better version of that person. Our S's are fools to not take us back and trust our changes, right?
Anyway, just remember you two have a lot tying you together, especially a young baby. My baby is only 2 months and my hormones are all over the place so I imagine your W may be dealing with the same still especially if she's breastfeeding. My OB told me to not expect to return to 'normal' until his first birthday!
We do have, indeed. It's just that my XW tells me how she waited for so long and managed to "hide" that feeling and still be happy. Until the winter when we got further away from each other.
She is still breast-feeding, indeed. Probably will still till Christmas or so, as then my S is 1 year old. She is also sleeping poorly. Maybe she is depressed... but that doesn't change the fact how I contributed and how she lost the feelings for me.
The S has to believe things would be better and different if they came back. They have to see you as the better choice. IMO it is by moving on without them, being friendly but distant in interactions, letting them see you having fun and interacting with others so they can think they want to get in on being apart of your life. People want what they don't think they can have. Sandi spent a lot of time talking about that with me on my threads.
That is true. It would need to be much better and there can't be anyone else in their lives. But I don't know how I can accomplish that - I can't just snap my fingers and get a new job. The biggest 180 I've done is I've changed to the best father ever. I spend time with my kids, laugh with them (much more than my XW does - D wants to spend time with me possibly more than with my XW - XW seems quite angry all the time - even to the point where I'm questioning if she really is a good mother or not... but then I realize she is TIRED).
I guess you are right, people DO want they can't have. But I've said that I want to stand for this, I want to change etc etc... I don't think how I can pull it off and show her that I've moved forward. Maybe this comes with time. Maybe she notices when I start doing what you mentioned.
OM can't compare to you because he doesn't have the history you have, the kids, heck a new baby! Just be the best version of you, any man that would engage with a woman that has a new baby isn't someone of a high moral compass and his true colors will show. I remember people telling me last time to step back and let OW meet all of H's needs, that it would speed up the demise of their R... they were sure right.
Is this true? Do people think his moral compass is not high? Well, hopefully that happens. It could also end up the other way around. Who knows, right? At least I hope some day to have some validation for this... I fantasize of a moment of me continuing with my life and her&OM breaking up badly. I know I know, I shouldn't. I would tolerate and accept it much better if it would have taken more time... I know I should be happy for her but... It's just so goddamn hard!
Believe me your NOT crazy, weird, or pathetic. I skipped a week of work when I found out. Cried, knocked bathroom door down, threatened OM, and too many other things that hopefully I can forget one day. By your words, I think your doing ok.
I'm not crazy, I didn't mean that. I'm just... venting too much here and I get the feeling people are frustrated with my sitch - or with me doing 180s continuously almost like a bipolar (I don't have it!).
I'm not gonna do those things. Sorry you felt so bad
I've been reading your sitch too and you've done such a good progress.
The problem I have with OM is that he is not a "douchebag" by any means. Well, I can only SUSPECT who he is, not entirely sure. If it is the one I suspect, he is a good dude otherwise than maybe not having a high moral compass? Could be that my XW is just thinking more than she should... I don't know. I don't want to speculate. I just think I would have better chances if it was someone random and not cool at all
Well, like 25 says, the WAS always thinks about it when they have a bigger feel down moment. The LBS doesn't when they've moved on, because they didn't have a say how it ended and they continued with their life. Also, it requires a very confident person to handle a situation where the ex-S is "GALed" and shows up as an upbeat, self-confident, independent individual.
But I do certainly consider this an REBOUND or an AFFAIR because I think my XW is lying. Unless she put a Tinder profile, I don't think she could have just randomly walked into this person. I saw the odd signs before the BD and I certainly do think she at least was having an EA with the guy before the BD.
Oh well. I'm usually so unlucky that I'm probably in the loser category in this one as well when it comes to statistics. Haha.
Id like to challenge you to do something this week that's out of your norm. You mentioned job, how about you physically show up somewhere and say Id like to talk to the manager. That's just an example but just try one thing for your confidence. Once I started doing little things the bigger results followed. Of course I'm not 100% but I'm far from the mess I was months ago.
I'm not going to do that because I don't think it really works on IT sector but I'm gonna grab the phone and start calling the list through. I need to gather the motivation to update my portfolio to spice up my CV. I know a MSc can get SOME job that is better than my low-grade one. Maybe I just need to ditch my ideology of directly finding the absolutely perfect job and start climbing the ladder from something I enjoy more than my current one.
Yeah, the familiarity and closeness is comforting, especially after BD. Eventually that'll go away and it'll feel more like going to visit a neighbor rather than your W.
Thanks. That's how it exactly feels. Super comfy, but I think the fact that my children are there is comforting too. Also, I'm probably subconsciously thinking that I show her the new me.
Well you have an advantage over others, she was attracted to you in the first place so you already have whatever combo of traits she finds attractive. You just need to get back in touch with that guy she was attracted to.
True. That still doesn't erase all the crap I did, or actually didn't do - but we still had very good moments in our R. I think we would've gone further if we didn't get this far from each other in winter (me doing 50 hours overtime at work, she having a baby+Uni) and my depression.
He's having an affair with a married woman. I promise you, he is not the shining example of manly man perfection she thinks he is. Every relationship that starts out as an affair with a married person is destined for failure.
Well, she's divorced. But I think it was an EA before the BD though. There's just no chance of that coincidence happening randomly because she never goes anywhere "random". This is comforting to hear but still my pessimism kicks in, lol.
They were the boost I needed to get me through the worst part. A couple of months after BD I inexplicably went from feeling OK to suddenly plunging into deep depression. There was no particular trigger, I was doing OK one day and suicidal the next. I got on SSRIs and about 4 weeks later I felt awesome, very much like my old self. I weaned off of them after a few months and never have had depression again. If you think you need a little help then go for it, there's no shame in it. Depression is an illness and SSRIs are medication.
OMG. THIS IS JUST LIKE ME!!! First almost two months I was feeling super good, but last week it hit me hard and especially the OM thing. It literally felt like a knife going through my heart and my hope, dreams, and future falling as pieces down to the floor while my imagination pictured them getting married!
Thanks for the support. I've heard really bad things about SSRIs but I think I'm going for it!
I have to add/correct: the OM is a date, not an affair/R like the previous posts may indicate. At least according to my XW... She said they've been going out a few times. Then again, I have my doubts... the signs were there already before BD.
It probably changes things though if it's just a dating they are taking slowly... then it could last, I guess.
All I have to say is that I'm sure it's more than what she 'says'
She BD 2 months ago and already has OM? and You're suppposed to believe it *just* happened??
My H tried that same crap last time... he waited like 3-4 months after BD and then it came out, she 'understood' him, they got close through sharing stories of divorce, blah blah blah.
Come on, I think you're smarter than that.
Yeah. Don't know why she's feeding me the bullcrap of us "finding eachother in the future" though...
Yeah. 2 months BD, then "by coincidence" she found someone and they've been going out "a couple of times", that's it. She doesn't "know" if it's going anywhere or if they are still going to see each other yadayada.
Being in WhatsApp all the time plus all the other signs are really showing that it is probably at physical level. Quite quickly, I have to say. It makes me puke my S is with them when they are doing it :S
Well what I have learned is everything out of their mouths is lies.
H looked at me dead in the face, while I was 32 weeks pregnant, and told me there was no way he had bought a motorcycle he said "are you crazy, we have a baby coming, I can't afford that right now"
Mind you I had already followed him, saw him on it, and called our insurance to confirm the purchase.
So their words are just that, words.
That's why they say don't believe anything they say, good or bad. Just remind yourself it's not the truth and IF it is then she can show you it is through actions.
I think your best bet is to leave her be. Let this R run its course. Nothing you say or do is going to stop it. Like Train tells me to be the OW to the OW, be the OM to the OM. Dress nice, wear some new cologne, be quick on your exchanges because you have somewhere to be, who knows maybe you have a date? Let her wonder what you're doing. She will even if she doesn't let on about it. She may even get nasty or cold.
She's trying to keep you as her plan B, as for finding each other in the future, that's if things don't work out for her.
I would ABSOLUTELY not engage in ANY conversation about OM with her. To me that is making you look weak to her... you're her H until D is final, why would you be willing to discuss your W with OM? Their dates, how serious the R is, etc? Just stop doing that. You won't tolerate it.
Yeah, but this doesn't seem like a WW to me. I guess WAS can lie too. I said I was willing to fight for the marriage... so she probably doesn't believe I have a date - although I doubt she trusts everything I say either...
I should. I probably said something along the lines that I can't control you obviously, but it did hurt to hear. But I'm not going to say any word about it anymore. I did make myself look weak
But I can change that going to the future. I guess we all do mistakes, especially easily when they hurt us a lot.
Also the difference is that my XW fell out of love, so technically she's more open for another man. I don't know - it just [censored] how she replaced me. I never thought that of her. I guess it's pretty common though... I know I need to drop the rope, but it just feels so bad. Maybe if there was no one else, but now that she's with another one, I don't see a future for us. Maybe if it for some odd reason does not work (which I doubt), but the timeline for that is going to be so long that I want to feel I've moved on a long time ago. Still feeling like I can't ever top her.
I need to accept that she's done. I still process the words in my head but I know those can't be trusted. I wonder if the day when we sign the papers about schedule and child support, if she's gonna drop the bomb that it's an R. Her brother divorced a year ago and is marrying AP now. Moved with her in less than 4 months after his BD. I keep wondering...
One of the things that really hurt is that I was the "test subject"; she now knows what went wrong and how she should act in the future to keep her new R working.
Has anyone else felt this way?
You being a "test subject" implies she's thought long and hard about the MR, realized how she contributed to the issues, and is making changes to herself so she can avoid these issues in future R's. Is that really the case?
For most sitches I read around here, it seems like the LBS is the one who makes the changes and grows from the experience, not the WAS.
It is of course possible she would want to avoid future mistakes. But to me her realizing how she contributed would also make it easier for her to see YOU in a different light and perhaps try to make it work with you first.
It is a lot easier continuing what you have than try it all over again. We are all different. It's personally one of the reasons why I would dread having to start the entire process over...and then see the years go by until it gets to the same number of years as now with W... and I know I would have to make sure I am not contributing to a self fulfilling prophecy.
As to what to do: at least you are going through the process. I would say GAL and detach and 180s but other than that the ball is in her court. Personally it would be easier for me to move on if the process was actually being carried out: moving out, filing for divorce, signing papers. It's the in between where hurt and pain and confusion are intense.
Well she said she can see the mistakes. Obviously she hasn't worked on them if she's already dating. It could be that she's only saying it to make things feel better for me. I think you do need quite a bit of time being single before you really understand all mistakes and especially what you want from a future R. Coincidence of finding the true love from an affair or directly after M is a bit low I think.
I would say it is downright unlikely that you find true love that way. It may lead to a marriage. In many ways my W both ended unhappy relationships and we found each other BUT WE NEVER DEVELOPED SKILLS. So almost 10 years later almost 7 years married (August 4th) and here I am. Can we turn this into true love? Possibly. But it is a very slow process. With several ups and downs.
She might be rushing into a feeling of ecstasy and force herself to think this person makes her happy and her MR is all bad. It very likely won't work out. But we cannot tell that to them because they a) won't listen, b) if they listen will be angry or c) further distance themselves from you.
This is why so many of us on here are confused, frustrated, hurt, scared etc.
I would say it is downright unlikely that you find true love that way. It may lead to a marriage. In many ways my W both ended unhappy relationships and we found each other BUT WE NEVER DEVELOPED SKILLS. So almost 10 years later almost 7 years married (August 4th) and here I am. Can we turn this into true love? Possibly. But it is a very slow process. With several ups and downs.
She might be rushing into a feeling of ecstasy and force herself to think this person makes her happy and her MR is all bad. It very likely won't work out. But we cannot tell that to them because they a) won't listen, b) if they listen will be angry or c) further distance themselves from you.
This is why so many of us on here are confused, frustrated, hurt, scared etc.
Heh, I feel you. I think I didn't develop any skills either after my previous ex cheated on me. Maybe that's why I am here now as well...
At least she probably learned to end the relationship earlier
Maybe not. I am not going to try to convince her to stop seeing the OM or anything. It's not my business and there's no controlling them.
Still, I keep fantasizing about a future where I am happy, living my life with a new woman, always upbeat, traveling the world, both of us having good jobs... and my XW devastated of her breakup with the new R. I wonder if I'm odd or if this is a common thing.
I don't know if it is odd. I think we want a quick fix: either our W back or us with someone else who is better for us.
One question though: is that your only fantasy or do you see a future with your (X)W?
One question though: is that your only fantasy or do you see a future with your (X)W?
I don't. Not that I'd currently want it, but I really doubt it. She's already with someone else which is far more than just "seen each other a couple of times" as it is obviously a lie.
I wasn't a really good spouse, to be honest. I don't see her wanting me back. Maybe in a distant future if all the stars are aligned right, no one knows about that. But not in the time frame I'm willing to wait before searching for a new partner - which I don't know how long it is, but I'd really hope I would have someone in my life in 2-3 years.
I just... I just feel that I can't get anyone better. Sure, there are millions of women, but highly educated, smart ones are hard to find. I know it's awkward and dumb for me to think about money, education etc. but somehow I just keep thinking that as a factor
In many ways I am envious of where you are. I sometimes want to just force my W to make a decision. Just recommit and we can work on things or just end it...rip the band aid off.
But I see too much of what I like in her and there is a lot I didn't do right but am now working on.
There are a LOT OF smart educated women who are looking for someone
Well... You still have a chance! Fight for it! I would gladly be in your situation where my wife would actually want to (at least on some level) work on our marriage.
It pains me to know that I've lost this due to long-term depression. My doctor prescribed me Cipralex (AD, escitalopram, same as Lexapro, SSRI) today. I read some stories in Internet and people seem to have had similar problems than I do and this med has changed their lives in mere weeks or months. I should have pushed for this earlier and I hope I get those same effects. My mother said she actually has used the same med recently because of having supreme depression due to work changes. She said she was on the point of jumping to hug the doctor crying when she got prescribed (had severe depression for few months) and a month later she was feeling awesome.
Well, at least my next spouse most likely will be happy. But that is in the future.
True. That still doesn't erase all the crap I did, or actually didn't do - but we still had very good moments in our R.
I'm sure if I wanted to bother I could come up with a laundry list of XW's issues that is longer than whatever list of stuff I did wrong (in fact I can think of a couple of big ones right off the top of my head, LOL!) We spend a lot of times beating ourselves up after BD, but most of us were probably pretty darned good husbands and fathers with maybe a flaw here and there. Maybe no better than our W's, but probably no worse either.
Your sig says 12/17? I assumed you meant the D hasn't happened yet?
OMG. THIS IS JUST LIKE ME!!! First almost two months I was feeling super good, but last week it hit me hard and especially the OM thing.
Well then I feel for you, because it was HORRIBLE. Worst thing I've ever gone through in my life. Are you having panic attacks? Those were the worst. Felt like I was literally going to die. When they would hit at work I couldn't sit at my desk, had to get up and walk around. Why it didn't happen until 2 months after BD is beyond me. I started on SSRIs (I think it was Viibryd?) and also something for the panic attacks.
I've heard really bad things about SSRIs but I think I'm going for it!
They take a while to kick in, and you have to take them consistently once you start. And you DO NOT want to quit them cold turkey, bad things can happen. It took a few weeks for them to really start making a difference, but once they kicked in I felt very much like my pre-BD self. Whatever weird chemical things happened to me after BD seemed to be reversed by the A/D's. After a few months I tapered off of them by taking about 10% less per week (cutting the tabs). This was after discussing it with my doc of course. So it took a little over two months to stop them completely, and let me tell you I was scared to take that last step! But I felt fine and have ever since (and it's been over 5 years).
I'm sure if I wanted to bother I could come up with a laundry list of XW's issues that is longer than whatever list of stuff I did wrong (in fact I can think of a couple of big ones right off the top of my head, LOL!) We spend a lot of times beating ourselves up after BD, but most of us were probably pretty darned good husbands and fathers with maybe a flaw here and there. Maybe no better than our W's, but probably no worse either.
Well... My list is much bigger and worse. I can say that much. I'm amazed she loved me that much for that long. I guess she could properly just erase the annoying thing about me (being absent and too much on my own world) and be happy otherwise. Lately I was very insecure (didn't want to meet relatives due to poor job despite being MSc, didn't want to travel due to poor money situation, ...) I did not progress in my life etc. This is the reason why I think all my hope is lost.
Your sig says 12/17? I assumed you meant the D hasn't happened yet?
Yeah, it's not legally over yet. But I think at least for her and the OM, the marriage is over when she drops the D bomb/files for D. I don't think it should be considered an affair anymore, but rather a new R.
Though, finding a potential step-father and meeting him "a couple of times" in mere two months seems quite suspicious...
Actually, I think it started as an EA. A few days prior to BD, my XW and children were at relatives in some party and I was feeling tired. I told her I'd clean up the house a bit and chill. Later, when she got home, she sent WhatsApp message to me "vacuumed the kitchen and the hallway" "whooooooooo". She was in a different room and I went to ask her what that was about. She seemed quite surprised about it, but told me she's happy I cleaned. It didn't hit me then but I think it was meant to be sent to somebody else. Don't EAs usually start with the H/W whining about their S for someone opposite sex?
Well then I feel for you, because it was HORRIBLE. Worst thing I've ever gone through in my life. Are you having panic attacks? Those were the worst. Felt like I was literally going to die. When they would hit at work I couldn't sit at my desk, had to get up and walk around. Why it didn't happen until 2 months after BD is beyond me. I started on SSRIs (I think it was Viibryd?) and also something for the panic attacks.
It really feels the worst thing I've ever experienced. I'm not having panic attacks but I burst to crying unexpectedly, I can't sleep, I constantly think about my future. Although I might experience some sort of a slight version of panic/anxiety attacks especially when going to sleep (body starts to feel warm and anxiety kicks in). Hopefully the SSRI helps.
I have no clue either for you. For me it was the OM, definitely. The insomnia makes it even worse.
They take a while to kick in, and you have to take them consistently once you start. And you DO NOT want to quit them cold turkey, bad things can happen. It took a few weeks for them to really start making a difference, but once they kicked in I felt very much like my pre-BD self. Whatever weird chemical things happened to me after BD seemed to be reversed by the A/D's. After a few months I tapered off of them by taking about 10% less per week (cutting the tabs). This was after discussing it with my doc of course. So it took a little over two months to stop them completely, and let me tell you I was scared to take that last step! But I felt fine and have ever since (and it's been over 5 years).
That's really nice to hear. There's so much stuff online about how bad SSRIs are in some cases. Weight gain, no result for depression, less motivation and drive etc. Hopefully these won't happen for me. I know the first few weeks will be painful due to side effects.
Couldn't sleep at all last night so had to call in sick. This divorce is really taking all my willpower to do anything or even live my life.
It really hurts me to video call my D and miss over half of my children's lives. How long can I take this gut-wrenching, knife-through-my-heart pain. Probably lasts longer.
I wish I would have been a better husband, at least a tiny bit. I wish I could have noticed the signs and corrected the course before it was too late. I wish I had hope. It is so obvious that I got replaced by another man who supported her emotionally when she pulled away from me. I can't see any future for us anymore and really wonder what goes in the mind of a woman who just had a baby... that was made with love, tried for over half a year, going through one miscarriage... and then just ditch their H without even trying therapy or any real effort.
Oh well, got Rx for sleeping pills. Maybe there is a brighter future somewhere in distance.
I've abandoned all my GALs for this week, except for seeing my kids. I'll go visit my parents for the weekend and I'll see some family and friends over there.
I think you are being very hard on yourself here. It sounds like your depression prevented you from fully operating to the best of your abilities.
As to what she did yes that is painful. In my case too my W felt I wasn't there for her emotionally (which wasn't entirely true but I do deserve some blame). It was easy for my W to go further and further. She told me that when she went to meet him in public she was convinced she would not like him. She told me that he wasn't BF material but I can see how she was working her way around that. What was LUCKY in my case: OM couldn't really be there for her. It was mostly text and only later at night. I am fairly certain it would have progressed much further if my W had a chance to be with him a lot more times. In the meantime she saw a H suddenly changing and being able to offer a lot of her needs in ways that I hadn't shown.
So I can see how your W would react the same way and increasingly find someone else. That doesn't mean it doesn't hurt especially if you are now getting better medication. But who knows...maybe she is scared and especially with a newborn that can influence action... Who knows that if she sees this medication changes a lot she will see you in a different light.
My W sees me in a different light...I just don't know if she is sincere or if she is just biding her time until she can make it work financially but that thought requires me to have an evil perception of her that I don't like. If it is true, so be it but I cannot let that make me impatient and in fact it would violate what I need to do in terms of 180s. But she stayed with me for years while she was unhappy and I can see recently she is much warmer than she usually was. So SOMETHING is different. And it started with me working on myself. You are working on yourself. Don't worry who will be in your life. Whoever it is they will love YOU. And know that with a child you will always have your W in your life. If the two of you want to there are very real opportunities for that.
But of course...we want it today. Even tomorrow is too far away. I understand. As someone who is dealing with needing to be patient this exercise is actually very healthy for me.
So my advice would be unless you know it is not true: maybe your W was scared of having a newborn with a person who is dealing with issues. YOU are working on that through medication. The more you are a better version of yourself...well who knows what the future holds.
Thank you Tobias.
You had luck on your side then, if the OM couldn't be there. Your wife could snap out of it, at least partially. It seems like the OM for my XW is there for her and really actively pushing for it... My XW is dropping my D every day to either D's grandparents or D's cousin. Children are with her this weekend and she has already scheduled a sleepover for my D. I know I shouldn't be thinking about it, but it is quite clear what she is doing.
What man would do this really? Have sex with a woman who is still married, has a 6 months old baby and is still breast feeding? I don't see that attractive at all for someone outside.
I can guarantee you that you were/are a better husband. I've been absent at times for quite a long time. It started with XW getting pregnant before I was ready. I almost left then but decided to stay because I couldn't have been able to tolerate myself for doing it. Obviously now I love my D from the bottom of my heart. I wouldn't change anything now in regards to her. She's my shining light, a strong girl who is very wise (going to first class after the summer but has already done some math problems that get introduced in 6th-7th class!). There are better times (I doubt my XW would have wanted to try to get a baby for half a year if she didn't really truly love me) but still, overall I can see what she had to go through. I know I could give her much better marriage now that I understand LLs, women<->men interaction and so on.
Well, I don't necessarily want it TODAY. Because I'm not the man I'm supposed to be YET. But, she is dating an OM, probably having sex each and every day she can get my D to somewhere/children are with me, and she's constantly messaging him. This is what kills all my hope from the future. I can see them moving together, I can see them getting married. What chance do I have now? I already had my chance.
The thing that I fear the most in the future is simply that I'm going to settle for less. My XW is wise, will be earning 2-3x the average pay, she is the mother of my children, she was good in bed and really loved sex. Part of me feels good... I always gived her an orgasm which she said she rarely got before me with any of the men she was/had been with! So that's at least a good thing about me. But, the OM is there for her emotionally so...
Getting back to your sitch, I truly do think you have a chance to correct your course. I truly wish it for you. Thank you for your support.
I also realize that I've done the most stupidest things, like saying that I want us to be together in the future, I want this to work, It's hard to let go of something you love blahblah...
Well, from this point on, I will not do anything against the DBing rules. My wife send me some pictures of my D again yesterday and I didn't respond.
As it is being discussed in T384's thread, I seriously agree that it feels bad to be disposable. To be replaced this quickly. I have a feeling that the BD wouldn't have happened without the OM and who knows, maybe we could be working on our issues right now.
The biggest thought still is that what kind of a man would do this? I don't see it very attractive for outsiders. Or is there someone here who thinks a breast-feeding married woman with a 7 year old D and a baby is attractive?
Well... I guess it is possible that they are madly in love and the couple of the century. Regardless, I really do deserve someone better who realizes marriages have up and downs, and no issues are impossible to solve by communicating properly.
I now know how to handle these situations but I seriously doubt she has learned anything at all. She was always bad at communicating as I had to really pursue the info out of her; Almost beg her to tell what's wrong. I gave her multiple situations where she could have said that she's falling out of love (she kept saying she loves me till the very end) and we need to do something about it. I see that I tried to make her happy by being more with her but she wasn't receptive which made me more repulsive as well.
> Or is there someone here who thinks a breast-feeding married woman with a 7 year old D and a baby is attractive?
Sorry, this came out wrong. There's nothing wrong in having children, or that's not unattractive. I meant the breast-feeding married woman (or just divorcing) with a newborn mostly.
The biggest thought still is that what kind of a man would do this? I don't see it very attractive for outsiders. Or is there someone here who thinks a breast-feeding married woman with a 7 year old D and a baby is attractive?
Very few people, at least in my opinion, have much control of who they fall in love with (if it is love, which I'm not saying it nessesarily is).
When answering that question on the internet, I use my left brain half. When I meet a woman in person, I tend to use the right half. So I'm not saying it would be impossible for me, but it definately is not something I am looking for.
Although I might experience some sort of a slight version of panic/anxiety attacks especially when going to sleep (body starts to feel warm and anxiety kicks in). Hopefully the SSRI helps.
Yeah that sounds like a panic attack. The real telling sign is that you can't lay or sit still when it happens. Fight-or-flight kicks in and since there's no fight at hand your reaction is to flee. It's from our caveman days and was a defense mechanism. It makes no sense today, and ESPECIALLY makes no sense as a reaction to BD or separation, but yet there it is. So your mind and body are telling you to flee, but from what? And to where? Very frustrating. So you end up wandering around trying to calm yourself down. I had some attacks that were so bad that I literally thought I would die from it. It gave me a new appreciation for what people go through when they say they have chronic depression and/ or panic attacks. It is nothing to be trifled with.
I also realize that I've done the most stupidest things, like saying that I want us to be together in the future, I want this to work, It's hard to let go of something you love blahblah...
We all did. Very few of us found DBing right after BD. Usually it was weeks or months later after we had done everything wrong. Just learn from it and keep moving forward!
My wife send me some pictures of my D again yesterday and I didn't respond.
It's OK to respond, especially if it's regarding the kids. Try not to initiate convos, but if she starts it's OK to reply. Just be the first to leave the convo if it drags on.
I now know how to handle these situations but I seriously doubt she has learned anything at all.
Don't get too cocky
DBing is a lifelong process. It is understanding that we don't know everything, can't fix everything, aren't perfect and neither is anyone else. It is learning to live with what we don't understand, and being content not to understand.
She was always bad at communicating as I had to really pursue the info out of her; Almost beg her to tell what's wrong.
This was a hard lesson for me to learn, but the problem with bad communication isn't HER, it's BOTH OF YOU. For example, begging her to tell you what is wrong is a failure on your part to communicate properly. When you ask someone what is wrong, you put them on the defensive. You are saying "tell me what is wrong so I can tell you how to fix it". You do not ask that or demand they tell you, you ask something like "it seems like something is bothering you, would you like to talk about it?" If she doesn't then you just say "I'm sorry you're feeling down, if you would like to talk about it later I am here for you!" If she does want to talk, just listen and validate, don't try to fix.
I see that I tried to make her happy by being more with her but she wasn't receptive which made me more repulsive as well.
Have you read the 7 Love Languages? If not then please do. You may be trying to show her love in your own languages, but her languages may be something completely different. If her primary language is Words of Affirmation and you're always giving her gifts but never offering WoA (which are NOT compliments, it's something completely different), you're not even on her emotional radar. Couples rarely have the same LL, but they almost always try to show love through their own LL and it just leads to resentment and misunderstandings.
"Have you read the 7 Love Languages? If not then please do. You may be trying to show her love in your own languages, but her languages may be something completely different. If her primary language is Words of Affirmation and you're always giving her gifts but never offering WoA (which are NOT compliments, it's something completely different), you're not even on her emotional radar. Couples rarely have the same LL, but they almost always try to show love through their own LL and it just leads to resentment and misunderstandings."
This! I mocked our differences and ridiculed it and now I wish i took it more seriously earlier: mine is service and my W is gifts. Guess what we both hated about the other not doing? Yup!
Communication is so tricky.
Sorry, The FIVE Love Languages. Not sure why I keep adding two more to it, maybe I'm thinking of "Words Other Than Bomb Drop" and "Not Clinging to the Edge of the Bed Like Your Spouse has Leprosy" LOL
Thanks AS. I can see and understand now that I was bad at communicating too. It doesn't matter anymore in this sitch though.
Well, about the repulsive; it worked previously. I think she was already partially checked out.
But now GALing. Drove 2 hours and cried most of it. At least SSRIs haven't made me suicidal...yet. I thought about this and I decided that I want something else from my life. I know it's pointless to say now that my wife is in love with someone else... but I don't think I deserved this and I would never be able to forgive it even though for some reason she wanted to take a bad husband back. I want to start fresh to create new memories. I want to feel the honeymoon again. I think this is easier if I stop hoping something to happen and really just force me to see myself with someone else. That's what she's done. I let them have the happily ever after.