You guys aren't going to beleive this 4

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http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2739593&page=1

Sweet Thorton... up to Thread Numero Quatro... Hope you're doing ok.

We'll be here for however many threads it takes, T.

Thanks,guys. I appreciate the encouragement.

So yesterday I got to spend some time with W's D. I took her to get some frozen yogurt and then for a long walk at the park.

She told me she is sad and is going to miss me but excited too because they have a pool where she's going (she loves to swim).

I dont think she really understands what's happening because she was telling me she would show me some things at Disneyland the next time she sees me. I didnt have it in me to tell her that she would probably never see me again.

She told me her mom told her they were never coming back to Colorado. That really hurt to hear.

I then told her I had something important I wanted to tell her. I told her that no matter what happens between her mom and I, she wasn't to blame. And just because her mom and I arent a couple anymore doesn't change my feelings for D.

I told her I would always consider myself her dad. And that if she ever needed anything at all, I was a phone call or text away.

I dont know how I'm going to let her go, she's like my own child.

Thornton,

I don't really have words that can help you with this, but I'm truly sorry.

Be well.

Happy Friday Dber's!

Not whole lot to report on my sitch other than the fact that W is annoyingly trying to act super happy around me. Seems like overcompensation to me. Oh well, none of my business I suppose.

Yesterday was kind of rough for me and I fell back into my old thinking patterns missing W.

Im slowly coming to grips with the fact I am idealizing the fantasy I have of W and our life together. In actuality, W isn't really like the image I have of her in my mind. She's not a bad person but she isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread either.

I'm doing my best to detach from her before she actually leaves for another state. I think watching her drive away in a U-Haul is going to hurt like hell. But there is nothing I can do about it except wish her the best.

My friends and parents keep warning me that she'll reach out one day with regrets. I try not to put too much emphasis on that but it does make me feel a little better for some reason. Probably because I have made W responsible for my sense of worthiness. And if she has regrets one day, maybe I wasn't such a dbag after all. I know I need to get rid of this mindset.

I have to admit, I'm anxious about my new life. I haven't been single in many, many, years and I'm not sure how I will do when I'm all by myself. I've been pinging friends asking to do things with them but they all have families and small children so it's hard for them to get out. I can see that I will need to find things to do by myself which honestly does not sound very appealling.

W is leaving her dog with me so I have a feeling it's gonna be me and the dog doing alot of things together. In the dog's defense, he's a great listener and never tries to fix my problems.

I hope you all have a good day and a good weekend.

"I can see that I will need to find things to do by myself which honestly does not sound very appealling."

....or trying some lovely new activities and expanding your circle of friends...??

There is more than one choice here...maybe not one you would find easy - but possible for sure..

My heart surely goes out to you and D. I hope you do maintain contact and she allows you to visit her in the future.

I know you explained your D is 17 and busy with life and stuff. But I imagine there is a little time for dad. How about really trying to build on that? What does she like to do? Take her out to dinner. Even if she keeps rejecting, never stop asking. One person you will always pursue is your child. Never stop that.

Happy Friday Thornton!

Quote:

Even if she keeps rejecting, never stop asking. One person you will always pursue is your child. Never stop that.

^^^ totally agree with Ginger1. I know its hard dealing with the possible loss of SD, but hopefully W allows that R to continue. In the meantime, while trying to find GAL activities, reaching out to D may be a good thing for the both of you.

T,

Find new interests, rekindle old ones, just get out. Even if it's basket weaving, it'll be worth it for one night just to say you tried it. Who knows, maybe you'll like it, and maybe the people you meet doing it will be worth knowing. I know you're not into what you're finding on meetup, but I've gotta tell you, the board game nights have REALLY lifted my spirits.

Don't watch the U-Haul. I know it's a metaphor, but don't do it for real. No matter where you are mentally and emotionally, it'll hurt, and it isn't worth it.

Glad you're keeping the dog. The only creatures that love unconditionally are dogs and small children. Everyone should have a dog. Smelly, ridiculous beasts, but they make up for it.

I was having a decent day. I got my haircut and cleaned my Jeep and then went home to get something to eat.

I took the trash out to the dumpster and noticed a frame that was thrown away. I turned it over and was a pic of W and I that she kept in her cubicle at work. Gut punch.

That definitely hurt to see.

ouch

IF we were tossing out photos of them with us, it would mean the pics were too painful for us to see,

not that we were indifferent to the m/lbsers.

Try to keep that in mind, b/c her pain about...whatever...

is not the same as not caring.

Hi Thornton, I'm sorry to hear that. I can recall visiting the marital home after we separated to find all the photos of me had been taken down and replaced with others - yucky for sure.

And somewhat insensitive of her to toss it in the trash where you might likely find it - but oh well that's on her I guess. I wonder if some of her actions are somewhat provocative - ie: hoping to elicit a response which may affirm she is right to go...

Anyway - she will do what she will do...and I hope you can haul yourself up and start making baby steps toward the kind of life you hope to lead going forward.

I know you have your name down for an apartment in the complex you like. Can I ask, if she is gone and you are feeling genuinely happy and settled there, and not yet dating, what will your life look like? Will you be working in the same place, doing the same kind of role? How will you spend your leisure time? What will you enjoy doing and who will you spend time with?

I agree with others about your D. D's always need their Dad. So, even if she is busy with some other stuff, do suggest regular get togethers. Even if it's a quick lunch or a movie she wants to see.

I also wanted to ask - is your SD's biological father in touch with her still?

Take care my friend and remember where to try and keep your focus - on you and forward momentum..

Hey Thornton,

Seeing the photo/frame in the trash is horrible and I'm sorry you saw that. They like to replace all good things with bad as if good never existed. She's probably tossed it because she doesn't want to be reminded of any of the good times. Is guilt driving that, probably, but they like to distance themselves from the worth in the M.

Hope you have a good one.

Agree with Sotto, that's insensitive at best, and the cynic in me thinks you were supposed to find that. When I got rid of my pictures at work, I took care of disposal at work.

Hope you're having a great weekend, T.

Thanks guys.

Yesterday evening I decided to run to Walmart to renew my fishing license. I walked out the door without saying anything to anyone.

While I'm driving, I get a text from W.

W: are you going on a date?

Me: Walmart

W: oh ok, I'm sorry. I'm still angry (sad face)

I didn't respond.

First of all, huh? Still angry at what?

Second, why do you give a damn?

When I came home I went to my room and was playing a game on my phone. And W comes in and apologizes for the text and tells me again she's still angry. I just nodded my head. She says "you don't care?" I shrugged my shoulders because I didn't know what she was talking about and I felt like she was baiting me into a R talk. She turned and walked back out.

I don't have a clue what is going on with her. She's a totally different person now.

Man Thornton, that would throw me for a loop. I hope you're doing ok.

Thornton, you're my personal hero.

You're the only man I've ever met smart enough to know that if you ask a women WHY she is mad, she'll be ten times angrier.

Bravo, sir.

Thanks guys.

Yesterday I spent the day running errands and hanging out. W and SD went to one of W's friends house for the day.

Last night as I was winding down for bed, W came home and walked into my room.

She again ripped me into me about how I did this to our family. That her girlfriend's house is the same model of house we were going to buy. She said she's so mad at me.

Then she starts to bawl. She's crying because she doesnt know how to let our 6 year relationship go. She said this is her longest relationship and she doesnt know how to let go of it. She even told me it was easier for me because I've been through a divorce before. I just listened and validated by nodding my head. After she was finished venting, she told me she now felt bad because she's been going off on me lately and I've stayed cool and calm and haven't engaged in a tit for tat.

Just another dip in the roller coaster, I guess.

Thornton,

That's all heavy man and I wish you luck. It's tough seeing them suffer and wanting to just say just take a freaking time out already.

I've told my W a handful of times (and am done doing so) that why can't we just be, just breathe, no decisions, etc. They have it in their mind that ending it is the ONLY option to heal. To me, there's just more to it, but that's the life of a LBS.

Hang in there.

Thanks, Tryin.

It'so hard for me to not analyze what's going on. W has been talking more and more lately and coming to me. She's also been staying in the room with me. A month ago, she would have ran from any room she caught herself in with me.

Tread lightly and protect yourself, but that could be good. It could also be looking for closure on things, but who knows.

Focus less on analyzing and more on doing for you. It's so hard not to analyze, but man is it quicksand.

If she did turn back and wanted to reconcile, what would be your non-negotiables?

Ie: how would you ensure you're not setting yourself up for another loop? Would your heart melt if there was a coffee shop re-run?

There needs to be some change in one of you for this to have a chance of working out IMHO...

Sotto - I absolutely agree with you.

I have these short bursts of clarity and realize that nothing will change unless we both are willing to put in the work. And she's not willing to look in the mirror to own her stuff.

Thanks for keeping me honest.

As you've pulled back and given her space and concentrated on yourself, she's noticed and is now doing what distancers do: trying to nudge back toward you to make sure you're still there, ready to pursue again. When you do, she'll pull back, again, and around and around you and your sanity will go.

As long as this dynamic is in place, your R will not be a good one. I have lived it. Keep doing what you're doing. In fact, double down on those things. She'll either have a full-on epiphany that what she does doesn't work for her, either, and will embark on fundamental change, or she won't. You can't control that and can only create the conditions that would allow it. Which is training yourself not to pursue, to drop the rope, etc.

Even if it doesn't work -- and it may not (distancing is the product of a lifetime of stuff that isn't easily unpacked) -- you're setting yourself up for a better life going forward without unhealthy attachments/co-dependencies.

Thanks JRuss, I agree with you.

We came down and lit in to me again about everything last night. She wants me to give her money to start her new life. Her reasoning is that she invested 6 years of herself into our relationship and will have nothing once she moves. I told her I invested 6 years as well and that I wasn't going to "pay her off". She then told me if I didn't have my stuff out of storage by the time she packed up her U-Haul, that my stuff was going in the trash. I said ok and didnt react. I'll get my stuff out before she packs up the U-Haul. Then she goes on to tell me that I was never a father to her D (I have to admit, I almost took the bait on this because I was extremely offended by her comment).

Basically, she's doing everything in her power to get me to react so she point the finger at me again. I haven't reacted to her at all in the last month in a half so I think she's running out of ammunition to support her decisions.

I explained that her decisions were hers. And the results of those decisions were her's to own. She didnt like that answer and stormed off slamming doors.

Then I get a text from her after I've fell asleep. She says she is sorry for all the things she had done. She is scared about starting over and without a job and wants me to be happy.

I'm really starting to view her differently.

***W came down and lit in to me again

Fun times. It took me about 2 months to train my H to understand that I wasn't going to respond to the attempts to pick fights anymore.

It amazes me when the WAS becomes someone we dont even recognize anymore. Some of the things she has told me have really shocked me.

Honestly, I don't think W really wants to go through with this. But I think she has demonized me to so many people that changing her mind would make her look really bad.

Originally Posted By: Thornton

I explained that her decisions were hers. And the results of those decisions were her's to own. She didnt like that answer and stormed off slamming doors.

Bingo. It's like this happy little picture where the grass is greener, but it comes with all new problems, challenges, pains. I know it's tough to stay and work through it, but divorce is just a short-term solution that creates new longer-term problems IMHO.

It is really something else, isn't it.... It's kinda like they become a totally different person.

Quote:

Honestly, I don't think W really wants to go through with this. But I think she has demonized me to so many people that changing her mind would make her look really bad.

I actually called my STBEW out on this very thing. Like they have gone so far already so there is no turning back now. Like they don't want to look weak or something in the eyes of their friends and family members. Who knows though.

Quote:

I explained that her decisions were hers. And the results of those decisions were her's to own. She didnt like that answer and stormed off slamming doors.

I calmly did the same thing and mine had about the same reaction. Of course, I didn't get an apology afterwards.

Quote:

Basically, she's doing everything in her power to get me to react so she point the finger at me again. I haven't reacted to her at all in the last month in a half so I think she's running out of ammunition to support her decisions.

Good job! Keep up the good work!

Interesting...

Just received a text from W.

"Sorry I made things worse last night. This all just hurts so much".

I'm starting to worry she might be on her way to a breakdown.

Thornton,

Try not to worry about her breakdown. Do you like her hurting, no, but do not carry that burden. It is her burden to carry.

She's right. It all hurts so much, but that's up to choices and decisions made. People have to lie in the beds they make and it is not your responsibility to fix it for them.

I understand being empathetic to it as it is painful, but only to a point can you show feelings without it negatively impacting you. You do not need that pain / burden / etc. as you've got enough going on.

It does NOT make you any less of a man or husband or partner to not worry. It's about protecting yourself.

All the best.

That's great advice, Tryin. Thank you.

Honestly, I'm exhausted. It truly has been a roller coaster ride the past month and half. W goes from spewing venom at me to apologizing and saying she doesn't know how she can let me go.

Originally Posted By: Thornton

Interesting...

Just received a text from W.

"Sorry I made things worse last night. This all just hurts so much".

I'm starting to worry she might be on her way to a breakdown.

Thornton - you have your stuff and she has hers.

My h is showing signs of stress and "nutty" behavior -that is PER HIS OWN L-

and my first impulse was concern FOR HIM...(co-dependent, much?)

We have been fired from our jobs, or at least, suspended. They have their sandboxes and we have ours. Our sandboxes are full, we have our own work to do, plus we are parents too.

How are your GAL activities and the rest of your life going?

Originally Posted By: Thornton

Interesting...

Just received a text from W.

"Sorry I made things worse last night. This all just hurts so much".

I'm starting to worry she might be on her way to a breakdown.

Hey, it's not painless for anyone.

Yes she is in pain and she is inflicting some on you. But, what is it you think YOU can DO about HER problems & pain?

How about working on your own stuff, so you can be there for your d's and yourself? Are you still seeing an IC?

Being strong starts with self care for yourself (and yes, I promise to take my own advice)

Originally Posted By: Sotto

If she did turn back and wanted to reconcile, what would be your non-negotiables?

Ie: how would you ensure you're not setting yourself up for another loop? Would your heart melt if there was a coffee shop re-run?

There needs to be some change in one of you for this to have a chance of working out IMHO...

THIS ^^^^^^^
so much of this sounds really familiar to your earlier posts and it's same old, same old.

If I had my recon to do over again, I'd make sure we both got IC, not just MC.

Plus I only saw what validated my choice to stay, so I overlooked a ton of crap that my kids now bring up as being lousy for them to see. A lot of that is on me, to a large extent.

Second, I'd have gotten some barometers to keep us on track or at least know when we were off track and how to get back on...

This ^^ takes time. I gave it my time, and we had 2 years apart. During that time, I used it for my own IC, but without h's involvement, I was flying blind to an extent.

Still, I was able to detach and that saved my sanity and helped me be present for my d's at home. I would like to hear much more about your d's, btw.

I don't see the^^ inner work happening with you guys. I'm so Sorry to say this but - I see you as simply running after your w, & tactically changing, and maybe reacting differently to her.

I thought calling your nods, "validating," for her was curious, btw. I mean, it sure beats over reacting I guess.

Maybe there's something healthier in between over reacting versus nodding...which you need an IC to help you with. How do you resolve conflicts with your d's?

But it seems as if it's always with a recon as the goal, not your own work for you or your d's.

I worry that your work is solely/mostly aimed at getting her back. Thus I'm not sure how it's helping you get stronger or to detach...or how real these changes are. I think if you two reconciled tomorrow, you'd be back here within a year. (I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, Thornton. Truly)

I'm concerned you are setting yourself up for either being pushed off her roller coaster

or getting back on.
- Your w cannot possibly be ready for a healthy m - with this many loops -and no plan to change.

Thornton I'm not sure you are ready either. The "concern she is having a breakdown" really hit me. You are looking at her text as very significant, never mind the behaviors that vary, and then inserting yourself as a possible asset or cure.

Thornton, I really support your efforts and goals. I hope you know that.

What can you do to become stronger and more detached?

Without true detachment, you are volunteering to be on her roller coaster and there are no brakes within reach.

Great post, 25. Very thought provoking.

Honestly, I really dont know if I would take W back. I think part of me wants to see her reach out to me so that my ego isn't so bruised.

I'm starting to fantasize about my life without W. I told my IC that sometimes it scares me that I get excited about my future without W. Other times, I just miss her.

I also told my IC that my mind and my heart are at war right now. My heart wants W and misses her and all the laughs we shared. My mind tells me "the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior" and to view this as a gift from W.

Look, I know honestly that W and I probably aren't meant to be. We've tried and tried and the same patterns eventually present themselves. But it's not so easy to truly let go.

W is still moving and I dont see her changing her mind. I need to accept that. I'm trying to get strong because I know one day she will reach out to me with regrets. And I hope by that time I have enough self esteem to consider myself first and what my needs are.

I'm sure I've probably painted this horrible picture of W with all the stories I've told all of you. But she isn't a bad person. In fact, she's very caring and loving. BUT, she has a lot of issues that I don't think she will ever admit to and/or confront. And she definately reacts quickly to her emotions and can make impulsive decisions. I honestly don't think she will ever change in that regard.

I'm slowly taking off my rose tinted glasses. W is a lovely person. A caring mother and friend. But she's not fit for a relationship (neither am I). My plan is to be single for at least a year. I will get my own place and try to get comfortable being by myself.

Thanks for the support.

Hi Thornton, I haven't been on here in a long time but wanted to see how you're doing. You're a great (and handsome) guy, (and I know that because we've met, people, so it's true!)

You've been an inspiration to so many of us, and you continue to be that. Whatever happens, you're going to be happy. I know, it doesn't feel that way now. But those glimmers of hope about your new life? Go with that. Imagine a new relationship without all this baggage. A new person who thanks her lucky stars she found Thornton! Someone who might be just as sad as you are today, but eventually you'll find each other and be so happy!

I'm one of the lucky ones that got her person back, and we're doing well. But I have a friend who's dealing with so much ^^%@ from her STBX. She worked the DB program sort of, but this STBX has turned vicious and mean and selfish. Sometimes it's best to just let go, because they become tainted with all the pain they've caused. I'm a big supporter of DBing and I do believe Rs that have worked for years can and deserve the investment to try it again. But if it's just more and more pain, over and over? Let it go. Happiness IS out there.

XO

So much good advice. I rarely end up on here any longer, but saw your posts and read through the threads.

This stood out to me

Quote:

Abuse is the trump card WAS's play to gain the immediate support from everyone around them for their decision. Instead of society challenging them on their decision to destroy a family, the WAS becomes a hero applauded for their strength in facing such a hard path for the betterment of their lives and to set a good example for their children. Because of this there are accusations of abuse of some type in almost every divorce and the definition has been watered down as has society's ability to hold people accountable for their decisions.

This doesn't mean all cries of abuse are false. It just means that not all cries of abuse are true either, and this is why people make that claim.

Yeah, it does happen that way. It's an easy out. And it reminds of a recent ex gf. At the time she left, she was upset and had lots going on. Her FOO sucked for sure (who's didn't by current standards?

) I met her just after her ex-fianc� was caught cheating and her mom had died. We dated for several years but at the end, she wanted out and left the state. Fast forward a couple of years and she wants to get back together. Her words, "I don't know how you stayed with me. I didn't like me!" What did I take from that? Her issues led her away. Not me.

Why does that come to mind? Because what I'm seeing in your posts makes me think it's your WAW's issues that are leading her away, not yours. The actions say that, not the words. It's the story that comes through in all your myriad of posts. And it's consistent.

I've been there though. It hurts. You try to fix it, or at least not be the bad guy. You get accused of all kinds of things and that slows you down while you evaluate them. Why evaluate them? Because you need to know for sure. And one by one, you figure them out.

I'm trying to tell you that you didn't break her and so cannot fix her or the relationship. Should you be angry? Yes. Should you be sad? Yes. For you and for her and for the kids. Grieve but let go. Until you do, you only hurt yourself and her. After that, she can deal with herself or not.

But one thing is very certain in your thread - you cannot make things ok for her. She has to do that. Whether it's now or ten years from now, she'll do it, too.

Quote:

I'm slowly taking off my rose tinted glasses. W is a lovely person. A caring mother and friend. But she's not fit for a relationship (neither am I). My plan is to be single for at least a year. I will get my own place and try to get comfortable being by myself

She WAS a lovely person as far as you're concerned. She is not now. Not around you. But I strongly suggest you remember her that way as you move on. Dr Zeuss comes to mind when he says don't be sorry that it happened, but rather be glad it did. All of it happened - some good and some not so much. And while it is not what you wanted, it is what she seems to need in her life, as painful as it will be for all concerned.

Leave her to it. Honor that past relationship and move ahead with yourself. Respect yourself and the family, and do it with class and honor, but move ahead regardless of what she says.

Believe me, if she has an epiphany, she'll find a way to let you know and you can decide then.

Peace brother,

AJ

NY - thanks so much for stopping by! You are such a sweetheart. We'll have to get a drink sometime. And I'm so happy for you! You deserve happiness and it seems like you are well on your way.

AJ - .great advice. I intend to do exactly that. Let her go. This is gonna sting.

More drama...

My IC had me write out a list of W's negative qualities to review when I start idealizing her. I kept the list in my wallet and W found it.

I'm so mad she did that. As soon as she read the list, she marched into my room and went off on me again. This time I defended myself and told her I wasn't the sole reason for our split. It felt good to speak to her honestly and calmly while she spewed.

Then she started weeping and crumpled onto the ground. She talked about how I destroyed her. Huh??? Destroyed her??

In any case, my relationship is over.

Thornton,

That bites. Hate how that list is for you to help you and you alone, but as we all know snooping never helps.

I hope you've got some good GAL plans this weekend. I'm doing Habitat for Humanity (weather permitting) tomorrow. How about you?

Hang in there buddy.

Thornton, at least she still has anger. That is a feeling, an emotion. The fact that she called you out on it suggests she still cares. My H would probably have laughed about it and never said anything.

Hey Thornton,
Been following along for most of your journey. I'm sorry this has happened.

Why the heck was she snooping in the first place? Like many WWs they are constantly looking for things to justify their actions so they are the victims. Good opportunity for you to stick up for yourself, say what you mean, and be upfront about the reason for the list.

I'm sorry that happened Thornton - and sorry for her pain in finding that too - snooping does carry risks and you may find something that causes you sadness. And yes I also wondered why she is rummaging through your wallet!! I would certainly keep it about your person henceforth!

If she asks, I would honestly tell her your IC suggested you write that list to help you heal from her decision to end the R. In writing it, you hadn't intended she would read it and feel hurt. It is a shame she looked in your wallet and found it. You could also say there is an unwritten list of lovely qualities too - and that we all have our beautiful qualities and areas we could grow to....

Or don't say anything and let her be. Honestly, she does seem to cause her own dramas I think....

(((((Hugs)))))

hey Thorton, just dropping by. I see you as someone who's got to have so much strength and patience to be on this roller coaster this long. I haven't read your complete stitch but If you need a person to talk to (without kids and that's usually free) reach out to NY she's got my digits and we've met up a few times.
hang in there sir!

Originally Posted By: Thornton

In any case, my relationship is over.

Not to be pedantic, but whats really different than it was yesterday?

Keep your focus where it ought to be. She was snooping and got burned; thats on her, not you.

Good point, Kaizen. It's always a roller coaster ride and it all averages out to be no different today than yesterday or last week or next.

Listen to that cheesyt!

Latest update...

Got home last night after buying a new truck. I go out to the backyard just to sit and relax. W follows me outside and asks if I can talk.

W proceeds to tell me she thought a lot about what I said about both of us needing therapy. She thinks it's a great idea.

She stills plans to move but wanted to let me know she will be pursuing therapy for herself and that she still loves me. She says she hasn't closed the door on us and who knows what the future holds. She isn't opposed to trying to make things work in the future.

Sigh....

Thornton,

Man that woman has been and still is putting you through a lot. I have no words of wisdom, just offering my sympathy for your sitch.

At least she acknowledges that she needs therapy. I assume we all agree on that.

If you are already in IC, it doesn't change much for YOU.

Don't take the bait. Just be. She's planting the seeds of a backup plan and will ONLY use it as such

if she knows you'll still be on the shelf waiting. This is not a long term solution, to put it mildly.

I'd say nothing. IF she seems expectant of some response you can say you hope she gets something out of it or finds peace, etc. But then get busy GAL

how are your GAL & detachment efforts? Also how are your D's doing ?

This is a lot of instability for them to watch and be affected by, and none of it is within their control.

I have to agree with you, 25.

Wife once again cornered me and said with tears in her eyes she hopes one day we can re-connect after working on ourselves. I'm responding to her very neautrally because I'm not sure what to make of this other than she's probably trying to friend zone me or keep me within reach if she finds the grass isn't greener.

But she keeps reiterating getting therapy and said she is serious about it.

I'm still doing my best to continue to detach. Feeling a little bummed today.

For you wonderful mothers, thank you for what you do. Happy Mother's Day.

Sorry you're feeling a bit low today. That's bound to happen and also better days lie ahead for you and you will appreciate them all the more having been through some rough times.

I noticed that your posts still very much revolve around your ex GF and what she is saying - with a little of your own reading into what may be going on in her mind..

I wonder if it may be best to tell yourself that there is no way you guys are going to reconcile for at least many months - because you already know that something significant needs to change in order for your potential future R to be at all sustainable....

Might this help you shift your focus more? To tell yourself that and release her? And release yourself to live life and make plans just for you? I think it is really helpful you are going to IC and I would love to see you post more about other plans you are making for yourself and what you are doing for yourself independent of her....

Hope tomorrow is a better one for you

Great advice, Sotto. I've already been telling myself this needs to happen in order for me to grow from it but it'sfinately not easy.

W is still talking to me, asking for hugs, and crying all the time.

^^^That really messes with me. It was a lot easier for me when she was spewing all the time. Now she has switched course and said she still loves me, is hopeful we can reconnect in the future, and telling me she has no idea how to let me go.

It's like the real W is back (But I know it's probably just a facade).

Unfortunately, this shift in W really has me spinning because I want to know why this is happening and what her motives are. When she cries, I fall for it every time and it softens my heart. But I've also learned that putting my guard down has burnt me several times.

Thornton, sounds like she's truly hurting. I've always thought that a soft heart is helpful. If you can be loving while holding boundaries and keeping your focus on your future with or without her, that's not a bad plan. I mean, you do love her, so why pretend to be cold when you're burning up with the desire that she reconsider? Boundaries don't have to look like disdain. I remember hearing "be the person she'd be a fool to leave." I think this is the time for you to truly be Thornton 2.0.

Thanks, NY. It's so nice to see that you are doing well with W!

Hey Thor,

I haven't been following fully but catch up now and then. Isn't this deja vu all over again for you?? Just be careful. I think you jumped back into things way way to quickly the last time. I sense that you are wavering a bit. Stay strong

Pinn,

Hey buddy - it's been a while.

I agree with you. In fact, I just got some long winded texts from W asking me if I would ever take her back, apologizing etc. The codependant in me eats that stuff up. Thankfully, I've been giving very neutral responses and just telling her I'm taking it a day at a time.

You're right, my instinct is to just take her words at face value and jump right back in. W is still moving away in 2 weeks so maybe that will provide me with more insight.

But I'm hanging in there and still convincing myself this needs to happen in order for me to grow from it.

It just hurts to hear her tell me all the right things. It was much easier for me when she was spewing and stomping around with a scowl on her face. But when she is crying and seems genuine, it kills me.

It is good that you have this insight Thornton. You recognise the part of you that wants to leap on these messages like a starving man. And you understand where that desire comes from. Where it comes from isn't your healthiest place.

I think all of that is good, and is progress for you for sure. You are stepping back from her drama and recognising you have seen this behaviour from her before. The running away from true commitment, then the fear that sets in for her, then tears...and when you guys are back together, the cycling around this loop.

I suspect if she could suck you back in with a 'will you wait for me' or 'let's leave the door open and see where things go' - she would do that. Then she gets to move away and be near Mum, but keep you in the mix too.

I wouldn't go for that. You may want to let her know that if she chose to end the R and move away, you'll be moving forward with your own life and plans and you're not sure where you may be at..

Also, in response to her 'would you ever take me back.' You may want to let her know that things really aren't that simple anymore. As this has happened a few times now and you're not going to put yourself in that situation again.

For things to actually move forward on a sustainable footing, I think there would need to be a very honest and adult conversation about the pattern that has been happening..

Take care Thornton & hope you have a good day :-)

I'm proud of you Thorton. You are recognizing this time, something has to change. I would hate for you to go through this cycle yet again. And if she doesn't get the help she needs, it's going to happen.

I agree with Sotto, you need to discuss this pattern again and what steps need to be done so that this doesn't keep happening.

It would be the easy thing to just take her back. I am sure it is incredibly tempting. But just think about how this will most likely happen again if nothing changes.

Originally Posted By: NYGal

Thornton, sounds like she's truly hurting. I've always thought that a soft heart is helpful. If you can be loving while holding boundaries and keeping your focus on your future with or without her, that's not a bad plan.

No offense to Thornton, but that^^ plan is not possible. Imho, it's part of why he's here. There are no boundaries, as she can do as she pleases, change her mind, treat him like dirt and then cry when her mood changes. It's an extremely unhealthy dynamic and given their history, only Thornton can change it.

Not to mention the two daughters who are at the mercy of this dynamic...

I mean, you do love her, so why pretend to be cold when you're burning up with the desire that she reconsider?

b/c he's co-dependent and she's psychologically unwell. The goal is not first to get her to reconsider but for their relationship to change, rather dramatically.

In the few short years they've been together (short to me anyhow), this has happened 3 times.

Boundaries don't have to look like disdain. I remember hearing "be the person she'd be a fool to leave." I think this is the time for you to truly be Thornton 2.0.

From where I sit,

"Thornton 2.0" would get healthy enough to be on his own, as would his wife.

Then they could get new tools for handling their emotional, communications and trust issues, which run deep.

Her mood disorder or whatever it is that creates such wild mood swings and damaging impulsive behaviors, could be treated.

Detachment from those conditions, and losing the terror of losing her,

would be goals for Thornton.

As would care for the d's b/c I feel like I don't hear much about them.

I would think it could cause deep insecurity.

They don't know where they're going to be living next year or this summer, do they?

Great posts, ladies. Thank you. I truly appreciate you keeping an eye on me.

I know something has to change. I know that this pattern repeating itself is killing me slowly.

My codependance is screaming at me to sweep this all under the rug and to fix things. I'm fairly confident that I could convince W to stay but I won't do it. I don't want to start a new bomb drop thread in a year or so.

^^^this is new for me. I've never done this (let her go without trying to keep her here) before and it's scary to let her go and to watch her drive off in a U-Haul. It makes me really sad just thinking about it.

25 - regarding D's. My daughter is currently living with her mom. I speak to her regurlarly (When she's not mad at me for not agreeing with her teenage rebellion). She currently has a boyfriend and he takes up most of her time. I do ask her to do things but she will rarely accept unless she has nothing else going on.

W's D is still living with us until she leaves with her mom in 2 weeks. I check in with her everyday and play with her when I get home from work. About a week ago, I took her to get frozen yogurt and spent some time telling her none of this was her fault and that I consider myself her dad (she's met her real father once). I told her I would always be there for her and she could call or text anytime. She knows she is going to live with her grandma for awhile with her mom.

Regarding W, she is still approaching me with R talks. She still intends to move but is really emphasizing getting back together one day after we both work through our issues individually. She appears to be really struggling with all of this.

I'm not sure how I feel about that to be honest. Part of me thinks she is setting me up to be Plan B. When she asks me about it, I do not respond one way or the other. I just listen.

On the other hand, when she tells me this stuff, she is always crying. Seeing her cry is my achille's heel. It's my weakness. It's my codependance screaming at me to fix things for her, to relieve her pain. What I'm learning is that when I do give in and relieve her pain, I'm abandoning myself in a sense. I'm taking her pain on and absorbing it myself.

I always thought that this ^^^ was me being a loving person.

Here's where it gets tricky though. When I do give in and fix her issue, I expect her to do the same for me when I'm faced with a trial. How warped is that???

Something else I've thought about is how I can change myself into someone that others will approve of. For instance, when I first met W's mom, I wanted her to like me. So I ended up helping her move all by myself with no help from W or W's family. I wanted to be Superman so W's mom would approve of me. This went on for years as I kept trying to impress this woman. Ironically, W's mom always bad mouthed me behind my back because I had "stolen" her daughter from her.

I don't want to swing too far in the other direction and become a jerk who wont lift a finger to help anyone because I don't want to be codependant. I'm a nice person by nature, I always have been and I makes me feel good to help people or encourage them. But there's a fine line between being supportive and fixing things for people.

I've always ran from pain because I've never been good at coping with it. It all stems from my childhood and my abandonment issues. This time, my plan is to lean into the pain. To accept reality instead of coming up with a fantasy that will keep me distracted from the pain.

Thanks again for your words of wisdom.

Thornton, much props for leaning into the pain. I don't handle pain very well either. Or I've just had enough of it that I can't handle it anymore. Whatever the reason I tend to take the route that will cause me the least pain, but it can't always be avoided. Good for you for leaning into the pain. I think healthy things will come of it for you.

Originally Posted By: Thornton

Something else I've thought about is how I can change myself into someone that others will approve of.

Hey thor... Hope I am just misreading the above but if not, this is a big issue for you personally. It is the wrong goal. You will never, ever get approval from 100% of people 100% of the time. Some people you will never get that from just because of who they are. You need to get approval from yourself and let go of what others think of you. You cannot control that. Change yourself because you want to make changes, not to get approval from anyone.

Hey Ginger - Thanks for the words of encouragement. This is stuff is not for the faint of heart.

Hey Pinn - yep, I know being a chameleon isn't healthy for me. It's one of the things I intend to change. I would like to become more assertive and confident in myself.

I really think you are making progress Thornton, and I think 25s suggested areas to work on are good ones. Whether your ex GF chooses to work on her own areas at a deeper level would be up to her of course. She may choose to engage in that process and she may not.

You of course may choose not to recommence a R with her if she does not..

I think re-finding yourself in all of this is such a wonderful thing. I also found I bent myself out of shape seeking approval and acceptance from others. This area is very much a work in progress for me - but I am making progress and I am more conscious of personal boundaries now..

Two really important questions that resonated with me from my reading & thinking:

Does this work for me?
What do I need to do to look after myself in this situation?

I ask myself these often now, and would encourage you to think about whether they can help you too...

As for your situation, I do feel now is a crucial time, where she is wavering and tearful. And actually you know that something significant does need to change - in you or her or both - in order for you not to loop again.

Actually, I think you have reached an important point yourself in that - you don't want to do that again. That happened too in my situation. I knew in my very bones that I did not want to share a life with a partner who is secretly contacting others - texting - emailing or whatever when I am not in the room. It's not how I want to live. That feeling in me runs deep now...

Anyway, I think the best response to her may be - I understand you want to go. What that means for us? I guess I would need to think about that. It isn't so simple any more..

Take care Thornton - and if you need to make other plans when the U-haul comes - do what you need to do to look after yourself in that situation.

Originally Posted By: pinn

Hey Thor,

Isn't this deja vu all over again for you?? Just be careful. I think you jumped back into things way way to quickly the last time.

Wait. No! Thornton was/is the DB Master!! He played it very, very cool and absolutely did NOT jump back in too quickly. He did everything as right as anyone can. It's just that his F or XF or W or whatever she is has I.S.S.U.E.S.!

Dear 25yearsmlc, I see that you don't agree. But it worked for me. When I was going through my hard times I was on here all the time. The advice would often be of the strictest, most fundamentalist, "no, no, no, don't give an inch" type. I followed as much of the advice as I could, particularly about being the lighthouse and GALing and such. But I was also kind and willing to consider that my WS was hurting, too.

I'll say it again, Thornton is good at this. He knows what's best for his situation. Good luck, Thorn.

Thornton,

Don't have any new advice just rooting for you. This roller coaster can be a total bee-otch, but you've got this.

All the best.

Quote:

She currently has a boyfriend

And how does that make you feel? Does that take you closer to your goal? Your goal of being you? Authentic?

Quote:

Something else I've thought about is how I can change myself into someone that others will approve of.

That's not getting you what you want, is it? Approval of others won't lead to your happiness. It'll lead to many heartaches. I get why you are that way. What I'm wondering is what you'll do to change that?

Quote:

When I do give in and fix her issue, I expect her to do the same for me when I'm faced with a trial. How warped is that???

That is not warped. That's what a healthy relationship looks like, my friend. You have her back and she has yours. Same with your friends. Any relationship really. In their own way, your friends *should* have your back as you have theirs. Else it's not very healthy. It's then co-dependent or otherwise one-sided.

Quote:

I don't want to swing too far in the other direction and become a jerk who wont lift a finger to help anyone because I don't want to be codependant.

I admire that. What you're describing, is balance. How much or how far is something you have to figure out, right? You're the one that gets to decide. Nobody else will live with the consequences of your choices. But you're in a cycle. To break the cycle, if that's what you want, means YOU have to change. You have to decide what and how much though.

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Dear 25yearsmlc, I see that you don't agree.

I don't agree with not giving an inch. I also don't agree with being a doormat and not standing up for what you believe is right at any cost. There's a fine line there.
I'm not saying it's easy. I'm not saying it's possible in this relationship. But I am saying that regardless of what happens, you'll need to grow up and stand for something. You don't have the luxury of a choice at this point, at least in that regard. You have other choices. You must see something in what's going on that you're willing to endure the treatment. I don't know what that is, but you see it. The question is whether or not you have a choice?

I know when I was in your situation, I chose similarly. Right up until she remarried. Do I regret it? Nope. I tried everything I could to save the relationship. I had 20 years of being together and most of those were good. I gave the benefit of the doubt. Did it work? Depends how you look at it. She left. She remarried OM a few months after the divorce. She (of course) blamed me. 'Cause I have so much power

But I learned. I've had several deep and meaningful relationships that didn't last. One such relationship? She got angry and cut off all communications with me. That lasted about 3 days. And for me, it was like a switch because I'm worth more than that. Later, she tried to apologize and come back - twice now.

Let me ask you. What happens if you continue to be supportive and available while she dates? Does she wake up one day and come running back? What happens if you're not available and she wants to come back? What happens if you grieve and move on with your life and years from now she wants to come back? What happens if you don't allow the spewing, the accusations, the lies, the bad behavior in your life?

What happens when you've had enough?

AJ

Originally Posted By: NYGal

Dear 25yearsmlc, I see that you don't agree. But it worked for me. When I was going through my hard times I was on here all the time. The advice would often be of the strictest, most fundamentalist, "no, no, no, don't give an inch" type.

I don't think that's what I'm saying at all. Nor is it what I did 10 years ago. Just fyi

I followed as much of the advice as I could, particularly about being the lighthouse and GALing and such. But I was also kind and willing to consider that my WS was hurting, too.

I'll say it again, Thornton is good at this. He knows what's best for his situation. Good luck, Thorn.

AJ - Honestly I don't see W dating anytime soon, I really don't. I know some people will tell me I'm being naive. But W is an avoidant, I can see her being single for the rest of her life just like her mother who is also an avoidant.

W came and chatted with me again last night after she got home. She wants me to remember how much she loves me and to not listen to my friends that tell me I should run and never look back. Her main concern is that once she leaves, I will erase her from my life. She said she has seen me do that with my previous ex's. I kept asking why does it matter? She responded that she truly thinks we have a shot at working on ourselves and re-connecting later. I told her I can't put my life on hold because then I'm not working on myself and that all I could worry about was today and not the future.

I'm not really sure what to make of all that ^^. She also kept reiterating that she was not "abandonining" me. She said I forced her out of the relationship when we had our argument, that I gave her no choice. Maybe that's how she really feels, that's her perception. But I disagree that I forced her to do anything. We had a fight and she consulted with her mother (who always rolls out the red carpet for W when she calls to complain about me), and she DECIDED to pick up and move 1,000 miles away without a job.

I find myself feeling more and more anxiety as her move date approaches. Honestly, the feeling is very similiar to when I was a kid when my sister passed away suddenly. When my sister died, I spent years in pain trying to make sense of it all. I think I'm scared I will go through that again when she leaves.

In the past, when a relationship would end, I would feel devestated and hurt but then I'd go out and find my next girlfriend and fall in love all over again. I never really processed my grief and sat with it. I'd slap a band-aid on it and dive into the new relationship.

I have no idea what to expect because as I've said in previous posts, I plan to lean into the pain this time.

When the going gets tough....run away. That seems to be the theme of her life. I see this is strike #3 on her. I hope for your sake that this time you call her "out" and move on for good. This is no way to live.

Originally Posted By: Thornton

AJ - She said I forced her out of the relationship when we had our argument, that I gave her no choice. Maybe that's how she really feels, that's her perception. But I disagree that I forced her to do anything. We had a fight and she consulted with her mother (who always rolls out the red carpet for W when she calls to complain about me), and she DECIDED to pick up and move 1,000 miles away without a job.

Guilt transfer plain and simple. This is why she's saying this so she's not the guilty one and you are because you "gave her no choice". We all have choices and very little choices cannot be undone. It's all in what you do each and every day.

I know it's hard Thornton and I hope the best for you. Hang in there.

Yes I agree - we all have choices all of the time. So, she didn't like the way you spoke to her. That's fair enough....so what might she have chosen to do?

Let you know that when you said X, she felt hurt, belittled, angry, upset - and ask you not to say that again.

Ask to talk to you about the argument that was had - and how you guys could better resolve disagreements on things.

Say to you - hey I think you, me, we might benefit from some therapy to help us better deal with this. I feel concerned about us deepening the R at this point - given what happened - but I don't want us to part..

She might have apologised for her part in the argument, and then you both calmly discuss what happened and move forward.

I'm sure there are further permutations..

So, I agree - the words 'forced me' and 'no choice' are her perceptions - she feels - I could not have done anything else, given all circumstances..and maybe she felt that strongly. But we all have choices nonetheless...

As for how you feel - it's not surprising. Part of you (part of all of us) remains that scared little child, and you don't want to go 'back there.' But you are better able to cope now - all grown up and more resourceful. You may find this difficult, but you will also be able to cope and move forward..

I certainly wouldn't give her any commitment to - yes what you hope for may work. I would let her go, keep moving forward and see where you are at in a little while. Because at this point nothing has really changed and (IMHO) you are still in 'unsustainable' territory...

Hope this helps anyway my friend

Met with IC last night. Another good session. He wants me to start challenging myself to get out more (GAL) and striking up conversations with strangers. I can be an introverted aroound people I don't know. So I'll start working on that.

W came and had another R talk with me. She kept asking if I was dating anyone because I appear to be ok with things. She also mentioned being "together" one more time before she leaves. I don't think that's a good idea for me personally. It will probably just keep me attached.

I shared with my IC that I feel my anxiety building as we get closer to her move. It's becoming more and more real that she will be living 1,000 miles away. I'm not sure how I will handle that day. In the past when I had anxiety, I would talk to W about it. She was there for me. I won't be able to go to her for that anymore so I will have to rely on myself.

I'm hoping that with time, I will be able to start building my confidence again. I hate feeling like this, especially since I've been through this stuff a few times before.

Originally Posted By: Thornton

She also mentioned being "together" one more time before she leaves. I don't think that's a good idea for me personally. It will probably just keep me attached.

It will absolutely keep you attached. I can't imagine that being a good way to say goodbye, and if you don't think that's a good idea for you personally, then listen to yourself.

Quote:

In the past when I had anxiety, I would talk to W about it. She was there for me. I won't be able to go to her for that anymore so I will have to rely on myself.

My W not being the one I could rely on to help me through this was the worst part for me.

The good news is that relying on yourself is a good thing. The BETTER news is that you have more than just yourself. You've got friends. You've got family. You have the people that inhabit this place that, while they aren't really friends, at least understand where you're coming from and want to help you and be there for you.

Hang in there, T. One foot in front of the other. Do that enough times, and you'll find that you've ended up where you're supposed to be.

East - thanks for the encouragement.

Last night W stopped by my room once again. More tears. She started asking me if would ever consider moving to where she will be living. I told her I had no idea and that I had so many things to work on before I would consider moving anywhere.

She then goes on to tell me she wished she wouldn't have pulled the plug on our relationship so quickly after our argument but that it was too late now to change anything. She then started talking about how she has no plans to date and that I was "it" for her. I just listened.

Part of me thinks she doesnt want me, but she doesnt want anyone else to have me either. Who knows...

This is all so confusing to me. But Im slowly accepting what will be, will be. I dont have any control over any of this, so I'm trying my best to release it all.

Hey Thorn, hope all is well today.

Just wanted to throw something out there. When she "opens up" or tries to have an R talk, it sounds like you acknowledge and listen, which is great, I am curious if you respond and validate to be a better listener. For example when she said it's too late to turn back, you could acknowledge and validate her by saying, I can see how you could believe it's too far gone, would you be willing to share why you believe it's too late though?

Personally I wish I would have done that more, I avoided it tho because my tendency was to offer advice or try to fix it. Most people just want others to listen.

Hope today is an awesome day for you buddy. You are doing a great job.

Good to hear from you, Ty!

Yes, I do my best to validate when W is talking. Alot of times, I'm dumbfounded by what she is telling me. In those instances, I really just listen. I've been allowing her to vent and tell me how she feels about things.

You know that I'm a fixer as well. So when I just listen to her, that's a 180 for me. Even when I completely disagree with what she is saying.

Thanks again for checking in, my friend. I hope you are doing great!

Hi Thornton - interesting chat with her. Well, I guess she should think twice about pulling the plug on stuff and moving half way across the country then! But sometimes we need a hard knock or two to learn something important..

So - I'm going to dump you after a fight - arrange to move away - and hope you may follow me?

Does that appeal??

I would certainly take your time and I think your response sounded Good. Truly, I think last time you may have jumped on that..

As for the validating - it may be worth revisiting the validation cheat sheet and using some of the ones that feel most natural to you.

Often it is just enough to reflect back what someone is saying to you - or just say - I'm sorry you feel that way....difficult for us recovering fixers I know!!

So, your IC has set a GAL challenge too - what are you moving forward with there??

Hi Sotto!

I can't imagine following her to another state after she dumped me for the third time. In fact, that's kind of insulting to me. No thanks, I dont think I would ever be able to recover my self esteem after doing that.

Regarding GAL - yes, it's time I start pursuing that right away. I just bought a new truck and I've been looking at kayaks. I used to be an avid fisherman but I would like to have a fishing kayak so I can get out the good parts of the resevoirs I plan to fish.

Also looking at Mountain Bikes so I can drive up into the Rocky Mountains and find some cool trails.

I'm still struggling with social things though. I keep an eye on Meetup.com but there is literally nothing that appeals to me there. It's either quilting groups, or the bar-hopping scene, and even furries (google it if you've never heard of them).

Thornton, different circumstances by my H has been trying to get me to move near him and has no intention to reunite. I think that they like to have a safety net nearby when they fear their lives won't turn out as they imagine.

Good for you with the GAL plans!! I'm sure getting out with your kayak and on your bike will be a lot of fun!

With the social stuff - there is a spectrum and I would think about that. At the most daunting end might be a pure social Meetup where you make conversation 'cold' with other participants. At the least daunting end might be a shared activity where social interaction is more incidental and you are also focusing on other things. I certainly feel more comfortable with the latter. I could manage the former but I would probably feel drained afterward.

So, maybe a kayaking group or something more along those lines...volunteering in a bookstore has been a good one for me and dancing and yoga, choir - all activities that bring me in contact with others and none 'pure social.' Food for thought anyway perhaps?

And whilst I think it can be useful to extend your comfort zone a little - GAL is supposed to help us feel better about ourselves and our lives....

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She then goes on to tell me she wished she wouldn't have pulled the plug on our relationship so quickly after our argument but that it was too late now to change anything. She then started talking about how she has no plans to date and that I was "it" for her. I just listened.

Sotto picked up on this right away as well. Know what I see in this? Why not ask her directly - why is it too late? Why can't she stop moving and stay? Why can't she change the pattern of running away after an argument (dumping you three times) and this time do things differently?
I get that she's having second thoughts. I can see that. I'm not buying the part about 'no plans to date' being the same as 'I won't date anyone. That's not what this is about'

But I think you can probe the questions - why is it too late? Why can't we change the story from "I'm moving" to "I'm staying" ?

AJ

Sorry, I didn't explain very the conversation very well.

She did say she looked into staying but could not afford the rent for a 2 bedroom here in Colorado. The housing market here is insane and home prices and rent are astronomical.

She also mentioned that we need time apart to work on ourselves. Fair enough.

Hey Thornton,
Hope you're having an ok Friday.

I was hesitant to speak up, but the way you describe her just resonates with me and is something I've witnessed first hand.

I think she's playing you and has been playing you. I don't want to minimize any true remorse or guilt she may be genuinely feeling, but from an outsiders observation, I see a drama queen who is used to you coddling her. You haven't given in, so now she is second guessing her decision. It's the pursuing/ distancing dynamic at play..... But I think it's fake and manipulation. And I only say that because I've seen this exact thing with my own eyeballs. (And the fact that youve been here before.)

I don't want to be negative or not give you hope, but I think it's important that you stay the course, work on yourself, etc. Leave her to clean up her side of the street. Let her go. If she comes back (and she might) I would make sure she's worked through her stuff.. Truly... Not just lip service.

Maybe it's the way you have described her, but I see her as the type of person who will say, " I'm sorry you got upset." Vs "I'm sorry that I did Xyz and that my actions have hurt you." See the difference? Again, I could be completely wrong and I feel bad even labeling her, but it's screaming at me "fake, fake, fake! don't take the bait Thornton!"

Hope you enjoy your evening.

Originally Posted By: Thornton

Hi Sotto!

I can't imagine following her to another state after she dumped me for the third time.
In fact, that's kind of insulting to me. No thanks, I dont think I would ever be able to recover my self esteem after doing that.

Boy this^^^ is so TRUE. Take it in. She'd have you out there and you WILL have another fight and she has a pattern and the best predictor of future behavior is past.
Not to mention how close her mother would be...Ugh

Oh Thornton, if I could go back in time...

Regarding GAL - yes, it's time I start pursuing that right away. I just bought a new truck and I've been looking at kayaks. I used to be an avid fisherman but I would like to have a fishing kayak so I can get out the good parts of the resevoirs I plan to fish.

Also looking at Mountain Bikes so I can drive up into the Rocky Mountains and find some cool trails.

Any GAL involving other people? It'd help your loneliness factor and you said it's something you wanted to work on.

You also mentioned your own pattern of "getting dumped" and being devastated and then going into another relationship.

IN this r, you' have been left 3 times... Why would this be any different? Forget the tears.

I'm still struggling with social things though. I keep an eye on Meetup.com but there is literally nothing that appeals to me there. It's either quilting groups, or the bar-hopping scene, and even furries (google it if you've never heard of them).

Wow, really? Where do you live? I saw zero bar hopping groups and I have joined a writer's group. Also there is a film group I'm interested in too, so if you are too shy, you can watch and then discuss the film so there's a topic. And there are acting groups and theaters to do crew work if you like back stage stuff.

Sports teams to join, lessons to take, musical instruments to study, volunteer work,
and more.

Thornton,

IF there is a chance for your m to work out, it'd be by really being apart and I mean NOT near her mother and Not by you moving across country. That would greatly increase your dependence on her.

And you'd be away from your d.

I can see zero reason to join her and it reminds me of H going off to Alaska and expecting me to join him, again.

Thank God I didn't b/c that state would have $ucked for me legally if we divorced

and what if he was was OW then? Not cool.

At least I have a support system here...

I cannot emphasize enough how bad an idea it would be for you to join her.

She can return to you if she is truly a different woman IN TIME, but I would expect her to date and deny it

and to temperature check after she leaves...

I'd also expect her to change the date of her move b/c she's "not sure" again...

Your growth is affecting her so keep it up. NOT b/c it's affecting her but b/c it's good for you

and yes, from a DB standpoint it is working.

Originally Posted By: Thornton

I just bought a new truck and I've been looking at kayaks. I used to be an avid fisherman but I would like to have a fishing kayak so I can get out the good parts of the resevoirs I plan to fish.

That's GREAT, man!

Quote:

and even furries (google it if you've never heard of them)

I know I encouraged you to do things outside your comfort zone, but trust me, stay the hell away from that!

Furries are a bunch of nuts.

Some humor for you: Geek Hierarchy

25 - I have no plans to move with her. In fact, it will be a cold day in hell before I do that even if it means I'm single and alone forever.

East - thanks for the laugh! I needed that!

Feeling down today. W has been crying all the time. She told me yesterday that she's worried she's making the biggest mistake in her life. She also admits that this whole thing was a huge misunderstanding.

She keeps saying she doesn't know how to let me go. That she's never experienced heart ache like this before.

Today is our last Sunday together. She is going to the airport to pick up her mom and spend the day with her.

I just have this overwhelming sense of sadness today.

Thornton,

Did you ask her why she was worried this was going to be the biggest mistake in her life? Hard to chalk up these things as misunderstandings in my book. Each person must live with their own decisions and choices.

How different has this time been for you than in times past? Is this round any different to you than others as far as how it's gone, what you're feeling and what you want?

Good luck.

I think she's uncertain she's doing the right thing.

What's different about this time compared to the past two, the past two breakups have been a split followed by immediate NC for months. This time she had no where to go until after D finishes the school year so we've been in house separated since April.

it's very conflicting for me because when this is all started, she demonized me and made me out to be a monster. Then slowly, she let her guard down and started sharing her feelings with me and I let her vent. Now she is crying every day, asking me for hugs, and just looks miserable. So for me to say goodbye to someone who appears to be reaching out and in pain, is very hard to do.

What do you want? Do you want the goodbye or not?

My heart says no. My mind says I need to be on my own.

What about a pause or a time out? I'm in an ok spot to talk about our R, but I know my W is nowhere near it. She's in way too much pain right now. It would only be to shut that pain off and that's probably not the right answer for working at the R.

Good luck Thornton.

Hi Thornton, I'm sorry you're having a rough weekend. From what you post, it sounds as though the usual dynamic is happening - though as you say the circumstances of this break up are a little different than previously...

Certainly go with your head I would say. Because - what would be any different to before...and a misunderstanding - how so?? That sounds like not taking responsibility to me..

Stay strong and steady - and if you need to - say to her - it's not that straightforward any more..I would have to think about that.

I would let her go and buy yourself some time..

Thanks for all your responses.

This is W and D's last week here. I'm really struggling as we get closer to next Saturday when she leaves for Arizona.

More relationship talk with W last night and this morning. She is a nervous wreck. She keeps complaining about hyperventilating and that she's having trouble breathing due to her anxiety. She's also very paranoid about me finding someone else. She told me this morning that she has been having dreams of me meeting someone new and it tears her apart.

She is also trying to convince me that her mother was never out to get me. I dont beleive that for a second and told her I have always swam against the current when it came to her mom. Her mother wants W all to herself so they can live like sisters and raise D.

I thought I was feeling stronger the last few weeks but it feels like I'm coming unglued. I won't break down and ask her to stay. But I am just heart broken that this happened.

I feel like I'm back to idealizing W and feeling like I'm a failure that I couldn't keep my family intact.

Man Thornton, please keep your head up. You're not a failure. You know it takes two to tango. Y'all both got in this situation and it would take both of y'all to get out.

Definitely don't want to do any knee jerk reactions to your emotions or hers. I wish you all the best.

Thanks, Tryin.

More texts from W this morning claiming she still loves me but needs to leave and that she holds on to hope that one day we can reconnect.

I dont know why I'm even sharing this with you guys. I'm having a heck of a time trying not to spin.

I'm glad you are sharing. She is repeating the same exact cycle. It's your chance to break the cycle if you don't want to go through this again.

This is not your failure to keep the family together. It takes 2. She is very unhealthy. She needs to get herself well before you have any chance at success.

Stay strong and hang in there, I know it's tough.

Ginger - thank you.

Im just a giant ball of emotions today. It almost feels simliar to the bomb drop. I felt like I was getting stronger but recent chats and the fact this is her last week here is really killing me.

There's a sense of panic happening for me and I'm not really sure why. Maybe it's my instinct to fix things before it's too late and she drives off forever?

In the past, she would leave and I would go NC. This time I've seen her remorse and tears. I can clearly see the good parts of W in there when I talk to her. I can see the vulnerability in her eyes. I can see she still loves me, she tells me everyday.

How do you let go of someone that you love and that you know still loves you?

Originally Posted By: Thornton

How do you let go of someone that you love and that you know still loves you?

In your situation, letting go is love.

Quote:

In your situation, letting go is love.

I would have to agree with Ginger1 on this one. I'm sure its going to be one of the hardest things you do, but will possibly be the best thing to do at this point.

Good luck this week my friend!

Originally Posted By: Thornton

Thanks for all your responses.

This is W and D's last week here. I'm really struggling as we get closer to next Saturday when she leaves for Arizona.

totally natural to feel this way^^^

More relationship talk with W last night and this morning.

is there a way to STOP all this talk? Honestly it is just her swirling and trying to drag you down with her.

She has done this 3 times. Don't start having amnesia. IMO is there is a way to reconcile it'll be by letting her GO and see the grass is not greener.

If she panics and stops before departure, I feel certain this will happen again and again

but if you let her go see for herself on her own, how great life is without Thornton,

she'll either be fine and this is over anyhow, (but sooner)

or she'll learn something valuable. I don't even think she can come back to you without leaving.

If that happens, cross that bridge when you get to it.

She is a nervous wreck. She keeps complaining about hyperventilating and that she's having trouble breathing due to her anxiety. She's also very paranoid about me finding someone else. She told me this morning that she has been having dreams of me meeting someone new and it tears her apart.

none of this^^ belongs to you. It's her sandbox and I would not be very interested in hearing it from her if I were you.

Seriously - set a boundary. To have the WAW guilt the LBH this way is an unhealthy dynamic.

Don't keep it going.

She is also trying to convince me that her mother was never out to get me. I dont beleive that for a second and told her I have always swam against the current when it came to her mom. Her mother wants W all to herself so they can live like sisters and raise D.

You are taking the bait^^^....just let it all go. None of this^^^ is within your control.

I thought I was feeling stronger the last few weeks but it feels like I'm coming unglued. I won't break down and ask her to stay. But I am just heart broken that this happened.

I hear you.

I feel like I'm back to idealizing W

don't idealize a woman who has done this now, 3 times. Redirect your thinking.

and feeling like I'm a failure that I couldn't keep my family intact.

Stop^^^.....you don't have kids together and it's a 5 year m. You were not always miserable before you met your W and you won't always be miserable without her.

More importantly, Your own d is near you, right? You are a father to her and that's a family relationship.Also, You can always stay in touch with your stepdaughter. That's a family relationship.

Please don't make your w leaving (a 3rd time) the only factor in whether YOU have an "intact family." You decide that, not her.

You said after each break up before, you'd feel bereft and then get into another R. Wanna make this one different?

In time, if your w wakes up, let's cross that bridge when we get to it.

For now, all she is doing is a touch and go. She is saying^^^
she wants you to reassure her that you will NOT meet or hang out with a new woman and that instead you will wait for her....as you have before...waiting...

except now she's noticing less pleading and less co-dependence from you. That makes her very uncomfortable.

More nervous than the typical WAS who usually has second thoughts but keeps them private. Unlike them, your w shares every thought that crosses her mind.

She seems to be asking herself (and you)

"Oh no, What if my leaving means I'm not the only one with utter freedom??? What if Thornton has options - other than waiting for me?? I want it all when I want it but maybe I can't...that feels like by choosing one option I lose the other...Whattt??"

Thornton, this^^ type of question and behavior is high school. You choose broccoli and you don't get a salad. But now people are involved.

When I was in freshman year, I recall wanting a new boyfriend but i was not 100% sure, so I wanted the old one to wait for me in case I wasn't making the best choice.

By the time we leave high school, most of us realize ^^that's selfish, unfair & immature...(and wrong).

Your w is confused. That's all. This is not a woman who has had "the grand awakening" and has changed or even worked on herself much. I would not trust it if she decided to stay.

Give her the freedom to learn what she needs to learn while you do the same.

Hang in there. This will take time.

Really great posts, everyone.

Thank you for giving me a quick hit of reality. I was really starting to spiral out of control. I think I'm doing better now.

new thread

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2744206#Post2744206