No probs buddy....
Hell, you brought me out of "retirement"....
Let me know how that other thing works...
Or perhaps I should say, when it works...
I tried the large social network - thorntondb - but I dont see anyone on there??
I added you on there thorn! 😎😉
Apparently the emojis still show up as a bunch of random symbols on here haha.
Thanks, Up!
I feel like I'm slowly coming to grips with the fact that my R is over. Man, that stings just to type out.
Last night I went to the gym and worked out. I caught one really attractive girl checking me out and that felt good for my bruised ego.
Honestly, I'm trying to view WAW from another person's perspective. I know my view of her is distorted from my rose colored glasses. I don't know why I put her up on that pedestal.
I think I've created this fantasy life in my mind about what W and I's life would look like in the future. All the thoughts, dreams, and plans we had. Growing old together. Having grand kids to love on. All of it was a fantasy I had created.
More realistically, those things ^^^ happening in the future with W are probably pretty slim. Everyone is telling me it wasn't a matter of if she would up and leave, but when.
So... Ive started looking at one bedroom apartments online. I have the money to put down on a new house but I dont think I'm in any frame of mind to be making such a big decision. I think I'll let myself mourn my loss and then decide what to do from there.
W continues to act disengaged and keeps her distance from me. I still try to wrap my brain around why this is happening again. 6 years is a lot to throw away over a few arguments. Especially when her daughter and I are so close.
So.... for GAL this week. I plan on going and buying some new clothes, new shoes, and probably some new workout gear. And as much as I don't want to, I will go see a movie by myself. Ive checked with my local friends and they all have plans with their families.
I also looked into Meetup but all the groups seem so weird to me. I dont really have any interest in playing Dungeon's and Dragon's (no offense if you like to play), or quilting, or some Star Wars battle scene re-enactment at a local park. I also dont really want to get into the party scene.
I suppose in time, I will be more open to trying some different things.
So you like to work out?
Join a group fitness class. I joined a gym by me where we were the same group of people every day at the same time. I made some close friends and met my current BF. It was great for socialization and getting in shape.
Do you like to hike? Join a hiking club? Run, join a running club.
Do you like live music? Catch a local band. It may be the bar scene, but it doesn't have to be about the bar.
How about volunteering? I tried to get into habitat for humanity but with full time work, a young kid who I have most of the time and school, I couldn't quite fit into their needs. But how great to build a home for someone who needs it with a group of new people?
You must have some interests. You would be surprised where you can find opportunities for socialization. And if I was truly single with out a child I would be indulging in all the above. I love to cook and would be all over cooking classes.
I went to my first movie by myself a few years ago. it was liberating.
You kind of have the world at your hands right now. I think we all planned a fantasy of how our life should or would have been. A great way of grieving the loss of it is to build a whole new present and future.
As far as Meetup goes, I can't imagine that Colorado is very different from East Tennessee as far as outdoor activities (well, your mountains are slightly taller :)) except maybe your outdoor season is shorter. There are A LOT of hiking, etc Meetups in Knoxville. If you're further from a population center it gets harder (everything I'm doing has me driving 30-45 minutes each way because I'm so far out). If you put your interests in there, it will suggest groups for you.
I know you actually seem to ENJOY working out (crazy person! :)) and I've found pickup basketball, soccer, softball, etc, there as well. YMMV, but don't give up. I know you have the same problem I do with having built your life around W, and short of asking your friends to set you up on dates (which I know you don't want) this could be one of your bets bets. It took me two weeks to find something I felt comfortable going to with a group that looked like it was ok.
Giving up the fantasy [censored]. Realizing that your W not only isn't the woman you thought anymore, but maybe never was [censored]. Knocking them off the pedestal and saying "Do I REALLY want to try to fix this?" and coming up with "I don't know, at best" hurts pretty bad. But you're strong enough to do that, and you'll be stronger on the other side of it.
Hang in there, T.
My exH plays on a co-ed volleyball team. He actually had me sub once last summer because they didn't have enough women. It was FUN. I'm probably going to join myself this year (not on his team though). They play outdoor at a bar/restaurant that has sand volleyball courts. Usually everyone grabs a beer afterwards. It's fun.
The world is your oyster if you let it be.
East and Ginger - thanks for your posts.
I will certainly keep looking. I know I will need to force myself. I am an introvert and it takes me a while to warm up to people. So walking into a room of strangers and introducing myself is currently outside my comfort zone. I know I will need to challenge this mindset in order for me to grow.
East and Ginger - thanks for your posts.
I will certainly keep looking. I know I will need to force myself. I am an introvert and it takes me a while to warm up to people. So walking into a room of strangers and introducing myself is currently outside my comfort zone. I know I will need to challenge this mindset in order for me to grow.
That soccer thing I went to? It took me ten minutes to even say "hi" to someone.
I said about 40 words in the hour I was there. Was still totally worth it.
East, Thanks. I'm gonna have to force myself eventually.
Journaling (Be forewarned there will be lots of whining. I just need to get my thoughts typed out)...
Feeling anxious today and having a hard time getting the sick feeling in my stomach to go away. Nothing has changed in my sitch and I feel like I'm just counting down the days until W leaves for another state. I can't stand feeling so raw and exposed.
I've done a really good job of "acting as if" evertthing is fine when I'm around W but I have a battle happening in my heart and my mind.
I'm trying to calm my mind and not obsess but it is hard to manage.
I'm starting to feel that I am looking for reasons to dislike W. If I can think of enough bad things about her, maybe it will lesson the pain. I've got her so high up on that pedestal, that it makes it hard to remember all the times she was a jerk or wasn't there for me.
I'm realizing that my codependance on our relationship has me feeling like she "owes" me something for all the times I've been there for her. I feel like she robbed me (I know this is not a healthy emotion) because it feels like she used me up and then threw me away.
The fact that things happened so quickly really messes with my head. She went from jumping up and down when we learned we were under contract for our new home (after searching for several months) to having an argument, to her leaving me, all within a few weeks.
I felt we were so close to the next chapter in our lives. It's what we had worked towards for so long. We were within reach of our goal and dreams. For that to go up in a puff of smoke, kills me.
W has a history of doing this in the past. Why do I sugarcoat it like it would never happen again if we could just talk things out and move forward?
The loneliness is what really gets me. Being alone with my obsessive thoughts is enough to make anyone crazy. But I continue to put on this fake smile and get up each day and go to work. But inside, I'm devestated (again).
I love her and I hate her for doing this. I'm so upset what this will do to step-daughter. W even promised SD that when we got back together last time, that she wasn't going to leave me again. SD was so happy when W told her that.
I'm trying to make sense of something that makes no sense.
And now you can swing those 2 x 4's..
The fact that things happened so quickly really messes with my head. She went from jumping up and down when we learned we were under contract for our new home (after searching for several months) to having an argument, to her leaving me, all within a few weeks.
I felt we were so close to the next chapter in our lives. It's what we had worked towards for so long. We were within reach of our goal and dreams. For that to go up in a puff of smoke, kills me.
Same here. In January, we finally settled on not selling our home at this point as we've been flip flopping for a while. We did so because we've got just a few more years before both kids in High School. Let's focus on paying off debt, plan out this, plan out that... nevermind, I'm miserable and I'm out, PEACE!!
Such a wrench in the plans, right??? Totally understand the swings and you know this is all part of it. Breathe in the good air and out the bad.
Whatchya got going on for the weekend? Let's turn the attention to some good stuff so we're not stuck wallowing. You got to vent it on the board now let's turn our attention elsewhere.
Hang in there.
Thanks, Tryin. It's all script, eh?
Went to the gym last night and had a good workout and then went home. WAW was helping her daughter with homework and clearly avoiding me. She's been really snippy with D lately too, I don't understand why.
An hour later, I could hear her in her room crying. It took everything in me to not try to comfort her (I'm a fixer). I can't stand to see her in pain and to think I would probably be rejected if I offered her a hug.
As for me, I'm still struggling but managing to make it through the day. After work, Im gonna get my haircut and then rent a few movies I've been wanting to see.
Tomorrow I'll hit the gym in the morning and then get my oil changed in my Jeep, and then the plan is to buy some new clothes. I always feel good when I'm wearing some new clothes. Oh and I want some new cologne too.
So lately it seems a as if W might be second guessing herself. She's been crying. I started to have a sliver of hope but just now I overheard her tell my mom that she needs to start packing soon.
I'm so hurt right now. For her to throw this all away is devastating for me.
I know you don't need this advice, T, but DETACH.
Is this a head game? Why is she telling your mom about leaving so much, and why is it always when you can hear it?
You've knocked her off the pedestal. You KNOW and ACCEPT the negatives. You KNOW you can do this, that you don't NEED her, even if you may still WANT her. You can't control this, you can only control you.
If she changes her mind, if she wants you back, she needs to WORK for it. To make changes in herself, too. To make you believe there isn't going to be a round four. To make you believe she is not going to put you through this again. Enough to make YOU believe you want her, too.
Hang in there. You've GOT this.
What has to happen for you not to be listening at her doorknob pinning your entire hopes for the future on her every move?
You were a supporter when I first joined nearly 3 years ago. I wrote a post once about fear of abandonment. What I learned is that the reason I was so afraid is that I had abandoned myself. I had denied my own emotions, was tremendously self critical, and sought to find approval from others outside of myself. When I married XW I turned to her for all of my validation. Then, when she couldn't do enough to fill the hole within me, I became depressed, and started trying to control her behavior to get what I thought I needed from her.
I have learned this wasn't her job. It was mine. I can't abandon myself and then hold someone else accountable. So I learned to take care of myself. When what I felt I needed more than anything in the world was for XW to tell me I was good enough, instead I would turn to myself and acknowledge to myself that I was good enough. If I craved emotional validation, I would validate myself. Bottom line, I would meet my needs myself instead of expecting this other person who was obviously not capable of caring for me to do so. As a result I suffered less and became much less attached. And it's a good thing too, because you've read these posts long enough to know you don't want all of your eggs in one basket.
That's why GAL is important- to find other people and other ways to help meet your emotional needs. Like you I am an introvert. Frankly I don't want to meet other people. I enjoy playing chess online, reading a good book, etc. That is fine with me. Of course I have my kids half the time, my mom lives with me, and I have a best friend I talk to daily, so I'm not totally isolated. But I don't feel the need to join meet up groups. But the main point is that I am there for myself and I can enjoy my own time. I am not looking for anyone else outside of me to approve of me or validate me.
So while GAL might make sense, my top recommendation is to list everything you wish your WAW would do for you, then think of ways to do it for yourself. When you feel you need her, when you feel abandoned, tell yourself you're there for yourself now, and you won't ever abandon yourself again. Be the caretaker for yourself you wish she was. Take care of yourself.
As for her shinanigans, she's an addict that is chasing what society has promised is the greener grass she's entitled to, and I hope your plan A isn't to put all your eggs in the basket of her suddenly seeing the light and coming to your emotional rescue. If it is you have to assume responsibility for the failure of that plan, not her, because that's a choice you're making.
Hang in.
You hit the nail on the head, Zeus.
This is such an engrained behavior/belief system for me. I do have very short bursts of clarity where I realize I'm strong enough to make it on my own. And that I might even be better off without W and her issues that she's never been willing to address or work on.
But those fleeting thoughts are short lived at best. Watching W walk away is like watching a part of me walking away, leaving me a shell of myself.
^^this scares the hell out of me.
I've suppose I've never developed the ability to soothe myself. I'd almost always stuff my feelings or run from them. Denial is a coping mechanism for me.
Well, just had a big R talk.
W saw me typing on my phone, I was writing my previous post on this board.
She then quickly left the room and I could tell she was crying. She texted me from her room asking if I was already talking to someone else.
So... I walked into her room and told her no I'm not talking to anyone else and that her leaving was the last thing I wanted. She cried some more and said that I Broke her heart and she looks at me differently now. That the love is gone. I told her that 2 arguments in 10 months was not worth throwing our family away. She replied that she doesn't trust us anymore. I told her I respected her decision to leave but I didn't agree with it. I apologized again for the part I played in this but told her I couldn't change the past. She told me she didn't trust love anymore and just wanted to be alone with her daughter. This is exactly what she said the last 2 times and I reminded her of it.
She said this time it's different. I said "you said that the last 2 times".
I probably ruined any chance of repairing our R by having that R talk but I needed to say something. Now she knows exactly how I feel. That's all I can do.
I hate this.
Well, just had a big R talk.
W saw me typing on my phone, I was writing my previous post on this board.
She then quickly left the room and I could tell she was crying. She texted me from her room asking if I was already talking to someone else.
So... I walked into her room and told her no I'm not talking to anyone else and that her leaving was the last thing I wanted. She cried some more and said that I Broke her heart and she looks at me differently now. That the love is gone. I told her that 2 arguments in 10 months was not worth throwing our family away.
You're telling her what to feel^^ and you are trying to argue your way into staying m. I don't think you should be telling her she's wrong to feel as she feels. Plus you raise the 2 arguments and for all you know, they were traumatic to her OR there are dozens of disputes she felt, that you are not aware of.
Bottom line is I don't think you can talk and argue your way out of a spouse leaving.
She replied that she doesn't trust us anymore. I told her I respected her decision to leave but I didn't agree with it. I apologized again for the part I played in this but told her I couldn't change the past.
Not sure how long this^^ took, but after maybe a minute, you need to leave. You owned your part (I assume that's true) and you said you cannot change the past. That's it. Nothing else to say, plus the more you keep talking the more it's clear you do NOT respect her decision b/c you want to keep harping at it. Do what you say.
She told me she didn't trust love anymore and just wanted to be alone with her daughter. This is exactly what she said the last 2 times and I reminded her of it.
She said this time it's different. I said "you said that the last 2 times".
Thornton, why did you tell her it's the same thing she said last time? To me, that comes off as daring her to mean it this time, and I know that's not what you meant to do.
Do you see my point? -- it's like saying "W I've heard THAT before" or "Yeah well, you said it before but you obviously did not really mean it..."
Anyhow, please don't bother trying to correct it now. It'll only highlight the parts of this you need to ignore, b/c you want her threats to be hollow. Don't motivate her to make them true.
What was revealed in ^^THIS R talk, that she does not already know?
To me, you pushed her a bit into cementing, defending and repeating her choices,
rather than letting her have the mental (and physical) space to ponder or examine them.
I probably ruined any chance of repairing our R by having that R talk
Thornton, You think one conversation does all that? Come on, you know better...
but I needed to say something. Now she knows exactly how I feel. That's all I can do.
I hate this.
If you really believe she did not know how you feel before, 
then I guess she knows now. And you do NOT have to repeat it.
Sometimes more words are not more "Weighty". There is power in the economy of words.
And the remarks that she "said that before" just makes her want to mean it more "this time."
Inadvertently you challenged her to defend the choices she is making. You SAY you "respect her choices, but..."
and then you keep at her about those choices. Back off.
Trust me, she's not indifferent.
Thank you, 25.
Honestly, I wonder if I'm subconsciously pushing her to end it.
Hi Thornton, just dropping by to offer moral support. I'm sorry you had the R talk. I guess they just aren't very productive when they happen. And it must have been hard hearing stuff you heard previously too. Remember that people say stuff based on how they feel right now. And also know that feelings can (and often do) change. Both hers and yours..
I was really interested in the couple of posts before the one above - from Zues and your response. These are areas to focus on for sure. I have never yet seen someone post - well gosh darn I took the path of growth and I really regret that. If we choose the path of growth, I don't believe we can lose - whatever the outcome of the relationship situation.
In your sitch, I strongly believe it's important to work on you. If we think ahead to some possible outcomes:
You reconcile....but you worry this could happen again because you know you depend on her so much
You don't reconcile....and you dread the one bed apartment and the TV dinner
Or you choose the path of growth...
You reconcile....if you would still consider a R with her...and the new R is on a more sustainable footing with a stronger, more independent you..
You don't reconcile...and you genuinely look forward to what life has to offer as you feel more comfortable in your own skin..
It's a win win I think :-)
You hit the nail on the head, Zeus.
This is such an engrained behavior/belief system for me. I do have very short bursts of clarity where I realize I'm strong enough to make it on my own. And that I might even be better off without W and her issues that she's never been willing to address or work on.
Thornton, if you w were never to address those issues within her, and her unusual r with her mom continued- I venture to say there's no way you will be happy and secure in this m. You're not happy now, and it would be more of the same. The only way to predict future behavior is to look at past behavior, for both parties.
Since you have a d16 and are 40+, can you tell me what your life was like before you met your w? And what was your R like with your D before you met W?
I'm just trying to see what is is you are so attached to, compared to your life before. I sense a serious abandonment fear in you, and that's pretty much in your sandbox, not your w's. Do you get what I'm saying?
But those fleeting thoughts are short lived at best. Watching W walk away is like watching a part of me walking away, leaving me a shell of myself.
^^this scares the hell out of me.
Can you say what specifically scares the hell out of you? What is the worst thing or the biggest fear? I mean, like "If w leaves I will....what?"
always be alone? Never have friends? Never have sex again? Die in a ditch, undiscovered for weeks until the wolves find you?
I'm sort of kidding, but mostly want you to realize that the worst possible scenario is
1) survivable and 2) something you can affect.
I've suppose I've never developed the ability to soothe myself. I'd almost always stuff my feelings or run from them. Denial is a coping mechanism for me.
Please share this^^ with your IC. It is valuable info.
Denial is not a coping mechanism; it's the opposite. It is a way to pretend you don't have to cope.
The inability to soothe oneself or affirm oneself means that there is a lot of emotional draining and exhausting of those around you, in order for you to feel okay enough to function, let alone feel good about yourself.
That is precisely because you do not know how to soothe yourself and it's a basic life skill one must gain to function well in healthy relationships.
It's not your w's job or your d's job, to "make" you feel good about yourself.
No one can compensate you for your haunting self doubt or childhood traumas and unresolved issues. Your w has some of her own, to be sure. But Thornton, you know you have a lot of work in your own sandbox, correct?
The inability to soothe or comfort or affirm yourself, to feel a basic Relational confidence is a great insight for you to have.
It's a valuable starting point for you with your IC. Have you discussed it?
hey 25,
Love your insight as always.
I have discussed this with my C. I'm a codependent. Basically, in order for me to heal, I need to be alone. I realize that I have so many issues to deal with. I should have plenty of time when W leaves. There's no way around it.
W saw me typing on my phone, I was writing my previous post on this board.
Is there an app that your use for the board or do you just do it from the browser?
She cried some more and said that...
I Broke her heart and she looks at me differently now. That the love is gone.
She replied that she doesn't trust us anymore.
She told me she didn't trust love anymore
Man this is exactly, and I mean exactly the same words my WW spoke to me the last time we sat and talked. I know exactly how you feel Thorn but I'm not as attached. I couldn't imagine being in the same house with her. You are stronger then you realize.
One day at a time brother. For me realizing I will be fine without her has helped the most. It is not what I want but I can move forward now.
Here is what I wrote from 2014 about this. Kind of rambling, I was trying to sort this out.
I met with my therapist today and think I uncovered the source of my low self-worth, fear of abandonment, co-dependency, pretty much the whole picture. It is DISSOCIATION!!! Basically, when I was young I went through some scary and intense times in my house. Long story short, I decided I didn’t want to deal with emotions, and instead lived in my head. I told myself I didn’t feel anything. And it worked…to a point.
The problem is that those emotions didn’t go away. It was like the 11 year old child inside of me that needed love, attention, comfort, nourishment, etc, got beat for being a pest and locked away in the closet. This hurt myself, but I didn’t look at it because I stayed too busy.
So low self worth…I never validated my OWN emotions. Fear of abandonment…I abandoned MYSELF! Read through the cycles below and watch how it played out.
Lately I’ve been trying to get more in touch with my emotions. They’re not fun to deal with, but I’m not running from them. I’m going to feel them and be strong enough to deal. I’m going to live in the real world. It’s not fun to be mortal but I can’t live in a fantasy world anymore.
And I’m proud of myself. I hurt but I’ll be OK. I’m not perfect but I’m special. And I’m excited to learn that by facing my emotions I don’t have to live in fear of crashing, fear of rejection, and fear of self loathing. It’s the first time in my life I haven’t been afraid and I feel great! I’m honestly not afraid of my STBX never changing her mind, because I’m learning I can handle life on life’s terms.
To be fair, even writing all this is a bit ‘manic’, but I will now sit with it for a few minutes and be ok with the stillness, the pain, the sorrow. I can handle it. And I am starting to like who I am because I’m taking the steps I need to take. Thank you for sharing my journey.
DESTRUCTIVE PERSONAL CYCLE:
• Lack of my own self-worth. Due to impossibly high standards I feel like I’m not good enough.
• Dissociation. With underdeveloped ability to deal with my own emotions I repress them and then run from them. I do this by using:
• Grandiose ideas. I set tremendous goals for myself, then charge towards them with crazy intensity. The faster I move the more I distract myself from my pain. So I move fast. I tend to be ‘manic’ and can easily stay up half the night with racing thoughts, writing many pages planning my moves, etc. I live in a fantasy world in which I’m going to become a world champion in my sport. Watching porn. Etc.
• Fear. Because I have learned by experience I can run from my emotions but cannot hide I grow terrified of the inevitable crash. This fear drives me even faster.
• Facing fear. Tired of living in fear I try to ‘face my fears’ but putting myself in scary situations. My therapist told me fear controlled me, not because I run from it, but because I run towards it. Even faster still.
• Depression. Eventually the feelings catch up and I can no longer outrun them. No matter how hard I tried I can’t get away. Not only am I down, I feel hopeless and ready to give up.
DESTRUCTIVE RELATIONSHIP CYCLE:
• Fear of abandonment. I feel something is terribly wrong with me and I’m unworthy of love. I hope there is someone to prove me wrong and love me anyway.
• Co-dependency. I find a woman with equally low self-worth thinking she’ll validate me, fix the pain in my heart, and won’t ever leave because she needs me as much as I need her.
• High expectations. I have impossible expectations of her as she can’t fill the hole in my heart.
• Rejection/depression/anger. I feel soul crushed that she doesn’t meet those expectations because “if she loved me she would”. I get hurt and angry. I withdraw to protect myself from further rejection and to manipulate her with emotional abuse to give me what I think I need.
Originally Posted By: Thornton
She cried some more and said that...
I Broke her heart and she looks at me differently now. That the love is gone.
She replied that she doesn't trust us anymore.
She told me she didn't trust love anymore
Man this is exactly, and I mean exactly the same words my WW spoke to me the last time we sat and talked.
She's on her roller coaster. Don't go with her. Let her sort through her own stuff. And don't stand around waiting for her to figure it out. Nothing good is going to come from this woman anytime in the near future. Time to start moving forward for real.
Did you see Pig Pen's inspirational speech? It's on YouTube, "Making Pain Your Guru". It just came to mind. Lean into the damn pain.
Zeus - reading what you posted was like holding up big mirror in front of me.
How did you take that first step? I'm giving it everything I can, honestly.
Really admire you, Zeus. And I'm so happy that you have found peace.
I hope to follow in your footsteps.
"Nothing good is going to come from this woman anytime in the near future. Time to start moving forward for real."
Change the gender and I can remember having this fundamental realisation in my own situation. When I sat back and looked at where XH was at and what choices he was making, I realised he had nothing good to offer me right now and that wasn't going to change any time soon.
I believe the same in your situation. Actually, if your SO had another hughe coffee shop meltdown and your heart melted and you decided to give things another go, my heart would sink as I would feel you were setting yourselves up for round four..
For the relationship dynamic to be different (either in that R or a new one) we need to change and grow. It is early days, but I do think you are getting on to the right path.
As for Zues, I think he is a good role model and it is inspiring to see someone a couple of years on. So, don't just hope to follow in his footsteps - follow in them!
And just a final word on GAL. Believe it or not, I would see myself more as an introvert than an extrovert. Whilst I enjoy company, it's definitely more of the smaller numbers and relaxed environment variety. Being in company for long periods leaves me tired and overstimulated. So, I didn't go for the Meetups variety. However, I would encourage you to think about some GAL where others are involved.
For me, it is more comfortable when it isn't a pure social environment. For example, my yoga class is friendly and amongst others, but you are focused on doing an activity. Same if you chose to learn Spanish, or play in a sports team, or volunteer in some capacity. Joining a divorce workshop was a really good thing for me as I met others and we did some true sharing, which created a bond. I know Caliguy in MLC forum has found this too...
So, maybe have a think about this avenue too?
Thornton, you can do this. It's actually surprisingly easy because dealing with feelings turns out to be a heck of a lot easier than running from them. It's almost like a six year old that decides they don't want to clean their room so instead they plan on building a robot that will clean their room for them. Years later they are still struggling with the power relay and then they remember the original purpose of everything was to save work, and it turns out cleaning the room was only an hour job, not a decade job. While likewise running from emotions seemed like a good idea to avoid pain, but after it causes years of devastation you look back and it turns out that just sitting with some uncomfortable feelings now and then isn't nearly as bad as sabataging your whole life.
PROMISE ME you'll watch the movie "Inside Out". It is the kids movie that came out about 2 years ago, so it's animated and all of that. But I'm telling you it is the absolute answer to your question.
Before this movie came out my IC worked with me to understand that all of my feelings were like employees in a company, I was the manager, and we were having a big meeting to talk about what we did next. So Anger was an employee, Fear was an employee, etc. Each had a specific job to do. It wouldn't do any good to shut one employee up and not hear what they had to say, because each had a good point to make. But I couldn't let one of my employees take over the entire meeting and singlehandedly dictate the future of the company. As the manager I couldn't simply defer all authority to them. It was MY job to lead.
For example, Anger would tell me that I had been hurt and ask that I evaluate the situation to find out what had caused me pain, and how I could stop that. Some of it's suggestions might make sense, like setting firmer boundaries around a hostile individual. But then when it would go on to suggest things like revenge and payback, whoaaa!, I'd take the reigns, thank Anger for it's suggestion, and then hear what my other emotions had to say, consider what my beliefs are, and try to act the way I believe a man should act.
I guess the rhythm I got into was spending some time trying to understand how I felt. I even started a habit of voice memoing at different times, stating how I felt, and what I think was making me feel that way. It was tough at first. At first I thought I felt 'nothing'. I was numb, detached. After a while I realized I felt 'bad', but it was very vague. Then I started to understand that I felt 'sad', and the reason I felt sad was that I had thought of a new specific way that our divorce would be a loss for me or my children. Once I recognized the emotion I was feeling and why I was feeling it, I could sit with it for a moment. I could honor that feeling, and hear what it had to say. Then ultimately I'd consider what the right response was to the situation. Most of the time it was just letting it be heard. Sometimes it involved me course correcting.
A great thing happened. Those negative feelings were no longer brewing inside of me. They just came out and floated away. And a new feeling started to grow. The feeling of confidence. I became confident in myself, in my ability to be there for myself, to lead forward in a way that made me proud. Looking back I am extremely proud of how I've navigated the last three years, and the more healthy decisions I make the more confident I become. One situation at a time, one feeling at a time, one response at a time, I have used my beliefs to guide me through and done what each situation demanded of me, and I feel stronger than I have ever felt. And the best part is that not only do the decisions you make in the moment make you feel a little better today because you know you handled it like a champion, as time passes those choices reshape your reality. My relationship with my kids is so strong and deep and rewarding. My inner peace when I'm just sitting with myself in the car. I built an emotional home for myself one brick at a time and not only was it satisfying to take control of my emotional life with each brick, but now I have a nice place to live.
Cliff notes- understand your feelings, honor them, then choose the best response based on being the man you want to be, what you want to see when you look back two years from now. Trust me on this. And please see "Inside Out" and let me know what you think.
Hang in T.
Wow, I feel honored that you guys have spent so much time to respond to my posts.
I don't have access to a computer right now as I'm typing this on my phone. But I think your responses to me deserve a thoughtful response.
I will re-read your responses and follow up tomorrow when I have access to a laptop.
Thank you everyone, for rallying around me. I truly appreciate your insights and even 2x4's.
Ok, I'm going to do my best to respond to all of your posts.
25 - regarding my convo with W, you're right. I should have just listened and validated. I know it's not W's job to make me happy and I honestly thought I was doing MUCH better with that during the 10 months we were piecing. I have spoken to C about this and will see if we can dive a little deeper into it.
Regarding soothing myself, I dont think I ever developed that skill. When I was 10 years old, my sister (16 years old) was killed instantly in an auto accident. My mom was put on tranquilizers for a year and my dad started working 80 hour weeks. I felt not only abandoned by my sister, but my parents as well.
I spent the 4th grade in home schooling because I developed agoraphobia and refused to leave the house. The house was the only place I felt safe and every time my parents walked out the door, I thought it would be the last time I would see them.
Because I wasn't getting any better, my parents put me in a psychiatric hospital for 3 months. I felt even more abandoned. I developed some issues with anxiety and panic as a result.
^^^^ this is probably why I pick the relationships I do.
Like Zeus, I would pick women with equally sh!tty self esteem and figured if I could rescue them and save them from their issues, they would think of me as a hero and never want to leave.
Unfortunately, this thinking never got me anything but heartbreak.
Regarding abandoning myself, this is definately something I do. Typically when I feel my anxiety building, I immediately look for something to take the edge off instead of sitting with my feelings and letting them pass. Sometimes, I'll even come to the DB board as a distraction.
Sitting alone with my thoughts and feelings feels like I have no skin. I'm exposed and raw and I feel everything. It literally can feel like I'm jumping out of my own skin. Often it brings up the exact feelings I had when I was 10 years old.
This weekend, W has gone off on me a few times.
Her daughter's bd party is next weekend at a park and we had to reserve some tables. W checked the weather and it looks like snow next weekend. She blamed me for that "It's just another kick in the gut!" She has literally blamed me for everything, including the weather. I just listen and validate when I can.
She's also been crying alot and I don't know how to react in those situations. I hate to see her in pain. Typically I just give her an empathetic look like I know she's hurting and I'm sorry.
Honestly, I think W has bad mouthed me so much to her friends and family that she has no way to turn back even if she wanted to.
She's labeled me "abusive" but lets me play and do things with her daugther all day. Makes no sense to me.
Honestly, I think W has bad mouthed me so much to her friends and family that she has no way to turn back even if she wanted to.
She's labeled me "abusive" but lets me play and do things with her daugther all day. Makes no sense to me.
First off, pretty cool that you can control the weather. ;-)
The crazy level of emotions that our WAS go through is intense. Maybe because I've been in this before as a LBS that I feel more grounded than what my W does.
My W's ticked that I'm now being "parent of the year". My SIL told my W, "um, do you want him to not be there for the kids?".
Best of luck with the ups and downs.
Tryin, thanks.
It's crazy because what she is doing now (reacting to things and blasting me for it) is exactly what she said she is leaving me for.
I'm tempted to point this out to her (but I won't).
I guess I'm confused how I should be reacting to her outburts. Currently, Im just listening for the most part and letting her get it out of her system.
To say she has me confused is an understatement...
Tryin, thanks.
It's crazy because what she is doing now (reacting to things and blasting me for it) is exactly what she said she is leaving me for.
I'm tempted to point this out to her (but I won't).
I guess I'm confused how I should be reacting to her outburts. Currently, Im just listening for the most part and letting her get it out of her system.
To say she has me confused is an understatement...
Hi Thornton, thanks for posting what you did above. That is such a sad and difficult thing to have happened in your life as a child, and it is understandable to have struggled. To lose your sister in that way, and with your Mum and Dad trying to cope as best they can, and then the hospital stay. I can see you would have felt abandoned.
As you know, I lost my brother suddenly when I was in my 20s, and looking back I didn't have great coping skills then. But I was an adult at least. To have tough things happen as a child, I think we develop coping strategies to help us feel safe at that time. They may not always be the best strategies then, but they work for us. However, sometimes we carry them into our adult lives too, and use them - perhaps without realising. It is good to see these patterns and understand what is happening for you. Though I understand that feels painful and you feel raw.
One thing I have seen posted here is to listen to your inner child when you feel these strong emotions. Sit on the couch with that frightened boy and hear what he is saying. Understand him, and you can then make choices to act from an 'adult' state and not be driven by fear (or inner child) state.
So, inner child may say - I need to find someone who I can fix and they will always be with me and not run away. So, that needs to be someone with some issues or damage (probably all of us to some degree
) That makes perfect sense to the part of you that is scared little boy who feels abandoned. If I can just get to a place where someone won't bail on me, I'll be okay - safe.
However, from an 'adult' place, starting a R with someone who has significant issues is more likely to lead to an unstable relational situation...
Of course, I am no expert and I'm only posting from my own experience - of therapy and of what I read and see posted here. But I hope you'll follow this avenue with your therapist. You said you felt you had got to a good place previously, but sometimes there is a little further delving to do, which isn't easy - but if you can recognise patterns which don't serve you well and make peace with the past, these are prizes indeed.
What I would like to suggest is that you have a look at Guy Winch's emotional first aid TED talk as I think there is some useful insight in there on looking after your mental and emotional health. Also, have you considered some practical, actual steps you can take to support your wellbeing and manage anxious feelings when they do come? I'm thinking journaling, meditation, yoga, gratitude journal etc. These are all things I have turned to at times when things felt overwhelming..
Hope this helps anyway my friend, and one of the great things about this forum is - it is open 24/7 and is always here if you need it.
What I would like to suggest is that you have a look at Guy Winch's emotional first aid TED talk as I think there is some useful insight in there on looking after your mental and emotional health.
I thought Guy Winch first aid was supposed to be used to treat erectile dysfunction.
I thought Guy Winch first aid was supposed to be used to treat erectile dysfunction.
The FDA banned it for the application. Turns out a couple of people had the torque set too high and Bobbitted themselves.
T,
Don't know what to say about your childhood except (HUGS) and that out of that adversity, you still managed to become a good man who raised one daughter and is raising another. Never lose sight of the man you've become in spite of your past.
I'm starting to feel angry that WAW is throwing me under the bus to anyone who will listen.
I'm not going to react. I'll just take it in stride.
Use your anger as a shield, right Mach?
Sometimes I have these moments of clarity where I realize that I just might be better off without W.
The person she has become is not he W I know or want to be around.
She will literally bad mouth me to friends and family and then will be nice to my face. Then she reverses course and acts very angry around me and avoids me. I just leave her alone. I say hi and goodbye when I leave the house and stay out of her business.
Also, my mom took a pic of WAW with the family cat on her shoulder. WAW immediately got defensive and asked who she was sending the picture to. My mom told her she was going to send it to W's sister because it was a cute pic. W flipped out and said she does not want her picture sent to anyone.
Basically, W does not want anyone to see that she is still smiling in this house. She has painted a picture for everyone that will listen that she is a victim living here and it's awful. The last thing she wants is for people to see her having fun with a cat while in my parents house.
My mom also showed me a text from W that said she needs to get out of this "abusive situation". Ummm... if I'm so abusive, why are you staying in this house until your daughter finishes school? And why do you let me help your daughter with homework and build Lego sets with her for hours at a time?
I feel my anger and resentment building. I will not react and give W the justification she is seeking. I feel like it's a character assasination. I know I shouldnt give a damn what her family thinks of me. And I know I'm not abusive. Why then, do I feel compelled to defend myself?
W has everyone convinced that she is some sort of abuse survivor. I know I need to let it go. It just upsets me that this is the same person a few weeks ago, that was losing her mind to be buying a home with me.
My family has been nothing but accomodating for W and her D. Her family views my family as the enemy while W lives here rent free.
Honestly, I dont know if I could look past this stuff if W ever wanted to try and work things out.
One thing I know for sure, I will not react. If W wants out, she can leave. I want her last memories of me to be of someone that wanted things to work out but respected his partners wishes to leave. I need to know that I did the absolute best I could to try and make things right.
Sometimes I have these moments of clarity where I realize that I just might be better off without W.
The person she has become is not he W I know or want to be around.
She will literally bad mouth me to friends and family and then will be nice to my face. Then she reverses course and acts very angry around me and avoids me. I just leave her alone. I say hi and goodbye when I leave the house and stay out of her business.
Also, my mom took a pic of WAW with the family cat on her shoulder. WAW immediately got defensive and asked who she was sending the picture to. My mom told her she was going to send it to W's sister because it was a cute pic. W flipped out and said she does not want her picture sent to anyone.
Basically, W does not want anyone to see that she is still smiling in this house. She has painted a picture for everyone that will listen that she is a victim living here and it's awful. The last thing she wants is for people to see her having fun with a cat while in my parents house.
My mom also showed me a text from W that said she needs to get out of this "abusive situation". Ummm... if I'm so abusive, why are you staying in this house until your daughter finishes school? And why do you let me help your daughter with homework and build Lego sets with her for hours at a time?
I feel my anger and resentment building. I will not react and give W the justification she is seeking. I feel like it's a character assasination. I know I shouldnt give a damn what her family thinks of me. And I know I'm not abusive. Why then, do I feel compelled to defend myself?
W has everyone convinced that she is some sort of abuse survivor. I know I need to let it go. It just upsets me that this is the same person a few weeks ago, that was losing her mind to be buying a home with me.
My family has been nothing but accomodating for W and her D. Her family views my family as the enemy while W lives here rent free.
Honestly, I dont know if I could look past this stuff if W ever wanted to try and work things out.
One thing I know for sure, I will not react. If W wants out, she can leave. I want her last memories of me to be of someone that wanted things to work out but respected his partners wishes to leave. I need to know that I did the absolute best I could to try and make things right.
Fixed that for you Thor....
Jus sayin...
Yes I agree with Mach - you're focusing way too much on her! All of that - that's her sandpit. Now, it's a bit difficult at the moment, because she's playing in the sandpit right next to you and flicking grains over the barrier. But that will change and things will become easier.
So - enough of her. TBH (and you may hate to read that) I'm not really interested in her at all right now - just you!
What are you planning for yourself this week Thornton?
Thanks, Mach and Sotto.
This detaching business is extremely hard to do.
I know I can't make sense of something that makes no sense. But, I just want answers! Answers I'll probably never get, I know.
This detaching business is extremely hard to do.
Go do something, even if all you can find to do is end up playing D&D with a pack of nerds like me.
If nothing else is occupying your mind, then what's going to be?
Just saw WAW's daughters last concert for the school year. It will probably be the last time I get to see her perform.
I can't believe W thinks it's better to uproot D all over again. I'm so pissed at W's selfishness. It's getting hard to keep grinning and playing along like everything is normal.
Just saw WAW's daughters last concert for the school year. It will probably be the last time I get to see her perform.
I can't believe W thinks it's better to uproot D all over again. I'm so pissed at W's selfishness. It's getting hard to keep grinning and playing along like everything is normal.
I really like the question "What would you do if WAW had died?"
When someone dies it doesn't mean you don't get angry. Anger is a stage of grief and we go through it on any monumental loss. But with a death, your anger isn't directed at someone specifically. It's just angry that the world works the way it does, anger at God, anger that there can be so much pain in the universe. It's just anger without target. Realize your anger now is no different, only you have a target, you can blame all of the pain and anger and hurt and everything wrong with the universe all on WAW's choice to leave the marriage.
First of all, from WAW's point of view, does that sound appealing? I can already hear her, "He did x, and y, and z, for so many years, hurt me so much, yadda yadda yadda, and none of that matters, he doesn't care at all about any of that for year after year, then suddenly he hurts for a few weeks and BOOM!, now he's upset, and everything that has ever been wrong is my fault?!? Screw that. He can blame me, I don't care, I know the truth, if he wants to make me the bad guy he can go right ahead, I know that I didn't want to do this and wouldn't have if it wasn't the only option..." Not saying I agree, but this anger at her doesn't make her feel accountable and guilty, it just makes you look crazy and reassures her that she is doing the right thing. This is assuming any of it leaks out towards her in any way, but if you are still living together it almost has to.
So how do you let go of your anger? The answer is really easy. APPRECIATION. Appreciation is like kryptonite to anger. Anger can't exist in an appreciative soul. Again, anger has a role to play, it's an emotion on your team (Have you watched Inside Out yet??? You're an introvert, fire it up bro!). But it can't take over your entire company.
The mantra that saved my life was this: If God gives me my health, my children, my family, food to eat, a job to do, friends, gifts and talents that I can bring and share with the world, music to listen to, a nice car to drive, a comfortable bed to sleep in...ALL OF THIS...and I STILL look up at the sky and say "Screw You God, without the woman and relationship I want the way I want it when I want it I think all of this is total bull$hit and you can stuff it and take it all back!"...If I was truly THAT ungrateful and miserable- well, let's face it, one screwed up woman wouldn't really make me any less of a miserable prick.
So, I get you're angry. Hear your anger. Make any adjustments to your behavior that you need to make for you. Then after you hear the anger speak, tell it that you appreciate it's contributions, but now you're going to let some other emotions talk as well. Let appreciation have a turn. And then YOU lead on. Let's go!
Ok, I'm going to do my best to respond to all of your posts.
25 - regarding my convo with W, you're right. I should have just listened and validated. I know it's not W's job to make me happy and I honestly thought I was doing MUCH better with that during the 10 months we were piecing. I have spoken to C about this and will see if we can dive a little deeper into it.
Regarding soothing myself, I dont think I ever developed that skill.
it's not too late, Thornton.
When I was 10 years old, my sister (16 years old) was killed instantly in an auto accident. My mom was put on tranquilizers for a year and my dad started working 80 hour weeks. I felt not only abandoned by my sister, but my parents as well.
I spent the 4th grade in home schooling because I developed agoraphobia and refused to leave the house. The house was the only place I felt safe and every time my parents walked out the door, I thought it would be the last time I would see them.
Because I wasn't getting any better, my parents put me in a psychiatric hospital for 3 months. I felt even more abandoned. I developed some issues with anxiety and panic as a result.
^^^^ this is probably why I pick the relationships I do.
Okay, sounds rough. What can you do to change this dynamic, now?
Like Zeus, I would pick women with equally sh!tty self esteem and figured if I could rescue them and save them from their issues, they would think of me as a hero and never want to leave.
Unfortunately, this thinking never got me anything but heartbreak.
so it's not working for you, by a long shot. Again, what can you do about it? (I'll answer that question - The answer is, you learn new ways and get new tools and change yourself so the path of your life is not circular with you in the same position again...) You change the trajectory of your life...
Regarding abandoning myself, this is definately something I do. Typically when I feel my anxiety building, I immediately look for something to take the edge off instead of sitting with my feelings and letting them pass. Sometimes, I'll even come to the DB board as a distraction.
Sitting alone with my thoughts and feelings feels like I have no skin. I'm exposed and raw and I feel everything. It literally can feel like I'm jumping out of my own skin. Often it brings up the exact feelings I had when I was 10 years old.
Thornton, I ache for you. And I feel that you are not really in a great position to be working on the marriage, so much as needing urgent help with your own sandbox. You need to change your view of yourself, get some skin, and equip yourself with tools to build a newer stronger self.
I hope you'll consider that personal growth workshop I mentioned to you so that you'd be in a safe supportive environment and make some breakthroughs...("Essential Experience" in philadelphia, and no, I don't get a kickback for suggesting it!)
Also, How is your dear daughter coping with all this?
What would you like to model for her, as a man and as a father?
Zeus and 25 - thanks for your responses.
Zeus - I totally understand what you are saying about anger. I haven't let W see me angry at all. I've subscribed to Mach's methodology to use my anger as a shield and not a weapon.
Honestly, Im trying to keep it together for W's daughter. We are so close. Although she is not mine biologically, I have loved her like my own since she was 3 years old. Watching her perfom last night with all of her friends and having such a good time really upset me that she's going to have to start all over again in a new state. I just wish I could make it all better for her.
25 - I get what you're saying about needing to work in my own sandbox. I've been dealing with this stuff since I was 10 years old. Honestly, I don't think there isn't anything I've tried to get better, except, to be alone and sit with my thoughts and pain without a partner to distract me from it.
I really don't have many other options except to be alone. I hate it because I want companionship. I love spending time with my partner and I love the security that I get when I know my partner is there for me through thick and thin. Ironically, WAW is a love avoidant. And she has hardly been there for me when things got rough. She's the first person to hit the eject button, everytime.
So why do I idealize her? In the beginning of the R, she idolized me. I fixed her issues and she made me feel like Superman. I felt like I was doing my job as a good partner and being there for her, taking things off her plate to make her life easier. I remember one time I drove 1.5 hours in a blizzard to bring her some soup because she was sick. Took me 2 hours to get home because I couldn't see the road. 3.5 hours of driving to bring her some soup???
I thought I was being romantic. In actuality, I was being codependant.
25 - my daughter is almost 17 now and doesn't seem affected by anything. She has her own life and friends. In all honesty, I think she would prefer if W would leave. They have had some issues butting heads in the past and don't really speak to each other much anymore.
Im trying to think positive thoughts about what my new life will look like but it's hard because I've been through some things in my life that have re-enforced the fear response I get. I've conditioned myself to expect the worst because that's what's most likely to happen. And if I expect bad things, then I won't be taken by surprise when they do happen.
You had an extremely codependent relationship. Both of you. it worked when it worked, but it doesn't work now.
You had some pretty heartbreaking life-molding events happen in your early childhood. If I were you, I would spend all my time with my IC working through those. Focusing solely on you and not your W at all, quite honestly. I think when you work through your own personal issues, you will be much healthier ALONE and in a new R, when you are healthier alone. You are self-aware, which is a great thing.
I was abandoned in a way myself. My parents split when I was 17. My mother was a bi polar addict. She was clean for 12 years until my parents split, she relapsed and went rapidly downhill. She ended her own life when I was 21. My dad was my rock my whole life and he left the house and moved in with his GF (now W). even though he was emotionally there the best he could be from afar, I felt extremely abandoned. I had to drop out of college, get away from my mom and get my own place at 18. At which time I met my ex and I his crappy love was all I had and I clung to it like a lifeboat. He treated my so awfully, but I was afraid to let go because I felt like I had no one.
We went through IVF to have our first and only child. he began cheating in my pregnancy and left me when our daughter was 6 months old. I though I would never survive alone and with an infant.
I am now 36 years old. I have not really had a partner for 9 years. I have dated, but nothing serious. I am currently dating someone its probably my first real relationship. It's hard, but I think it will be worth it.
Point being, the fear of abandonment is real, but not a reason to stay with someone. I thought I wouldn't come out of this ok, but I did. The only one to soothe me or give me security has been me for so long. If I can do it, surely you can. There are many gifts in it.
I feel for you and your step daughter. You sound like a wonderful loving man.
I would strongly urge you, as difficult as it is, to do YOUR work. Don't worry one bit about your W right now. Time ot take care of and save YOU.
Ginger - thanks for sharing your story with me. I can only imagine what it felt like for you to go through that stuff.
I know I need to fix me. I think I resist it because I know it's going to hurt like hell to face my demons. The last thing I want is to feel how I felt when I was 10 years old. I would rather get hit by a car than to feel that stuff all over again.
Life just seems incredibly lonely without someone to love. Someone to share your day with. Share your thoughts and fears.
It's so backwards because alot of the time, I would not share my feelings with W because I feared maybe she would lose attraction for me. I started to share with her my fear of abandonment with her during the last 10 months we were piecing. On several occasions, she told me I was "stuck" with her and that her leaving days were over. She even told me this 10 days before she left again. Deep down, I don't think I really believed her. And in the end, she left again.
Life just seems incredibly lonely without someone to love. Someone to share your day with. Share your thoughts and fears.
First, learn to love yourself. Second, you will have relationships in your life again. What did I learn in not being in a romantic relationship for so many years? That there are relationships that aren't romantic where you can share yourself with others. Cultivate friendships.
You are 40. Once you do your work, some friends will come along, and one day, another romantic relationship. Your life isn't over. You'll miss that partner for a while, but its not the end all be all of life.
Yes I agree with Ginger. Not being in a R needn't equal lonely. Spending time with good friends, family & new friends can mean your life is full and happy.
It is unhealthy anyway to depend so absolutely upon someone...
Have you read or listened to Codependent No More? There is a work book too. If you get busy on Your Plan, your mind will have less time to roam to unhelpful places.
Now then. What about my gauntlet? 3 GAL activities you may want to try?? I haven't forgotten..
😊
Hey Sotto - yes I have read Codependant No More. A lot of it pertains to me. Codependancy can be pretty complex and has multiple facets to it.
I met with my T yesterday and we spent the entire hour talking about what it would look like if I dated a healthy woman. I won't go into detail, but alot of what we talked about was eye opening. We both agreed I'm in no position to be thinking about a new relationship (I dont even have any interest in dating anyone else) but he was challenging my self defeating inner dialogue that I have with myself.
Last night when I came home I asked WAW what she was going to do regarding her D's bday party at the park this weekend (It's supposed to snow). She said she was swtiching the venue to a brewery up the street that had board games and things like that. Huh? A 10 year old's bday party at a brewery? So I asked if I could make a suggestion and said she should consider the bowling alley and that if she did all the arrangements, I would pay for it. Honestly, I just want D to have a fun bday and I'm not trying to buy W's love for me. W was friendly for the rest of the night.
This morning she's back to being stand-offish and distant. Something clicked for me as I walked out the door on my way to work. I'm going to survive this. I know everyone has been telling me this for a long time but I never could buy into it. I felt a peace and calm wash over me on my drive to work. I even thought of some of the good times I had with W and it made me smile.
I'm feeling strong today. I feel excited to embrace my independence. I'm sure I'll be whining about my broken heart in a few hours but, this is the first time I've felt a break from the pain since this all started a month ago.
I'm thinking about taking some trips by myself. I've never done that before and it never appealed to me to take a trip without a partner.
We'll see what happens. For now, I will enjoy the break from the anguish..
I'm thinking about taking some trips by myself. I've never done that before and it never appealed to me to take a trip without a partner.
I've started thinking about this too. One of my best buds is about to venture into DB'ing as his W is ready to walk away. We might end up doing something, but I like the thought of just going somewhere to think, outdoors.
Glad you had a good night, T. I agree there will be some bad ones in the future, but you have a couple of good days and they'll build on each other, and next thing you know it'll be a good week, then a good month.
Something clicked for me as I walked out the door on my way to work. I'm going to survive this. I know everyone has been telling me this for a long time but I never could buy into it. I felt a peace and calm wash over me on my drive to work. I even thought of some of the good times I had with W and it made me smile.
I'm feeling strong today.
Hello Thornton,
This is an amazing statement!
Keep focusing all of your time, effort and attention on being the best Thornton and Dad that only a fool would leave.
Love the idea of moving the Bday party to bowling instead of a brewery. Much more age appropriate for the Bday girl.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
w has been acting disrespectful to my parents now. We live in their house and she doesn't pay rent, I do.
My parents have always been there for her and have loved her like a daughter. My mom takes her daughter to and from school and babysits her free of charge until we get home from work.
I feel angry and I'm having to bite my lip. I'm not sure what to do but I have a problem with W openly disrespecting them.
Is she baiting, trying to get you or them to be the bad guy? If she's telling people that you're abusive, "and then he threw me and D out" would just be icing on the cake, wouldn't it?
"I have a problem with W openly disrespecting them."
So, this is a personal boundary issue for you. She is living rent free in your parents home and benefitting from their help and goodwill.
What do you think it would be appropriate to do in these circumstances?
I'm also conscious the disrespect is towards your parents - what do they want to do about it?
w has been acting disrespectful to my parents now. We live in their house and she doesn't pay rent, I do.
My parents have always been there for her and have loved her like a daughter. My mom takes her daughter to and from school and babysits her free of charge until we get home from work.
I feel angry and I'm having to bite my lip. I'm not sure what to do but I have a problem with W openly disrespecting them.
I wouldn't bite my lip. I would ask that while she lives in your parents house while you pay rent that she shows respect. If it wasn't for her daughter I would tell her "if you don't then you can leave". How nice of your parents to be so helpful with her daughter. I hope they can speak up for themselves. If you parents want to say something, please let them.
It's hard because I don't want to add any drama to D's life.
I'm inclined to keep my mouth shut just to avoid any drama. I spoke to my mom, and she didn't seem too upset by it. She just said that W is trying to distance herself from our family.
I'll keep an eye on it and if it starts getting worse, I'll revisit other options at that time.
Tomorrow is D's bday party at the bowling alley. W has invited some of her new friends from her new job and her sister. I'm positive she has told them that I'm some sort of monster and abusive.
I dont know why it bothers me what other people think especially because I know the truth. But it does. Being labeled abusive is a huge allegation and totally false. But W apparently is recruiting a team of supporters to cheer her on while she leaves the monster.
Ironically, I spent most of last night playing with D and having tickle fights. At one point when D laughed out loud, W told her to keep it down or she would have to go to her room. I don't know who W is anymore.
I'm inclined to keep my mouth shut just to avoid any drama.
I don't remember if you read..., but that one jumped out at me. I (used to, I guess?) do the same. I would keep my mouth shut to avoid conflict. Do you have that going on here?
But W apparently is recruiting a team of supporters to cheer her on while she leaves the monster.
Yeah, that one really [censored]. These people will also "keep her honest" by reminding her what a "horrible person" you are if she starts to reconsider.
Keep being the best you you can be, T, you got this.
I dont know why it bothers me what other people think especially because I know the truth. But it does. Being labeled abusive is a huge allegation and totally false. But W apparently is recruiting a team of supporters to cheer her on while she leaves the monster.
I think its best just to let this go and not focus too much on it. I confronted my STBEW about the horrible things she was saying about me and she blew it off as "venting to friends". It really didn't bother me until she starting telling her friends and family what a horrible father I am. That is when I finally confronted her with substantial evidence of what she was saying, but again...it got me nowhere.
You are not going to be able to control her actions or what she says about you behind your back. The only thing you can control is how you react and respond. Yes, it is hard to hear these things, but the way I see it is that I knew the truth and so do you. Why focus your attention on her when it can be somewhere else. For me, it was counterproductive to dwell on her actions and what she was doing/saying so I just let it go. The only time I would suggest stepping in and saying something is if she is saying negative things about you to D. Parent alienation is something I strongly disagree with so that would be where I would draw the line.
I don't know who W is anymore.
^^^ Think so many on this board has uttered the same so many times. Hard to see, isn't it!
Tomorrow is D's bday party at the bowling alley.
Awesome and have fun! Go and enjoy it. Be polite and friendly to W's new friends and sister. Keep the peace and make it a great bday for your D cause its all about her tomorrow! Also glad to hear you got it switched to a bowing alley and not a brewery...good job!
East - I'm not sure if I have the nice guy tendency. I need to revisit that book.
Bdog - thanks for the advice. I wont react.
If there is one thing in common here thorn, we almost ALL have the nice guy tendancies buddy!
If there is one thing in common here thorn, we almost ALL have the nice guy tendancies buddy!
Tyler Durden in Fight Club said, "We are a generation of men raised by women" and that book really brought out to me just how badly many of us have been damaged by it.
If there is one thing in common here thorn, we almost ALL have the nice guy tendancies buddy!
Tyler Durden in Fight Club said, "We are a generation of men raised by women" and that book really brought out to me just how badly many of us have been damaged by it.
This is interesting. Why is it damaging to be raised by women? I am curious.
The thesis in ... is that we don't know how to be men. We come from broken homes, or homes where dad wasn't really present because he was working. We didn't have male role models. Lots of us swore at a young age not to be anything like our fathers.
We know how to be what women THINK a man should be.
It turns out that that's not actually what they want. So we try harder to be what our mothers, and our preschool and elementary school teachers told us we were supposed to be. We think that if we do that, if we just try hard enough, if we put our partners (and everyone else) first, our lives will be what we want them to be.
Except that's not how it works, and we fail again. So we try harder and the cycle repeats.
It's hard reading something like this and seeing so much of yourself in it.
We know how to be what women THINK a man should be.
Ginger1 - East sums it up really well in the above post.
East - My reading of ... is that I'd change ^^ to say "We know hot to be what WE THINK what women want in a man".
Where us nice guys miss the boat is by putting one's self aside we become a shell of who we are or were before M. In my case, it was my dad not prioritizing himself in any way, shape or form and completely having no say in what we did as a family. He did not do this because he was shirking responsibility, but just in wanting to let my mom decide to have what she wanted.
Obviously the flaw in this and the trap I followed is then we're not contributing/owning our side of things. It's all unintentional, but devastating. We do this because of such a fear of confrontation, keep the peace and it makes us look pretty damn weak in the process.
Thornton, sorry to hijack a bit here on your thread, but just wanted to add my 2 cents on ...
So just got home after D's birthday party.
It went off without a hitch, so that was good. W even bought me a beer while we were all bowling. It was my old W that I saw today. We worked like a team to keep the kids bowling and not running around the place.
We thanked me as I left because I foot the bill for D's party.
Now that I'm home, I'm super bummed. This is more than likely the last time I will see D have a bday party.
I prefer when W is stomping around angry because it makes it easier for me to detach. When she's nice and smiling, it's much harder to detach.
I prefer when W is stomping around angry because it makes it easier for me to detach. When she's nice and smiling, it's much harder to detach.
No doubt! At least you did get to see the W as you remember. I know it's painful because you start to do the "if only" and woulda, coulda, shoulda.
Remember the good parts of yesterday and make something happen today.
It's such a roller coaster because W was so friendly even last night. Then she said she felt like she was going to have an anxiety attack and went to her room.
This is brutal. She's acting nice and doIng my laundry for me while packing her things for her big love at the end of the month.
If she was acting angry it would be a lot easier. Ugh...
Hang in there T. You can get through this. Remember what she's doing to you family. Just because she's acting nice now doesn't change anything.
Hi Thornton, maybe time to do some focus shifting again as all your recent posts are about her. What about you??
What are you doing for yourself and planning for yourself this week my friend?
Any more news on that apartment you were thinking about??
Hey Sotto - I just got caught up in seeing the old W again. To see the woman that I remember caught me off guard and put me in a funk. Im getting anxious the closer we get to the end of May as that's when she is moving out of state. I still can't beleive this is really happening.
This week will be lots of gym time and I have a therapy appt tomorrow.
I had to put my name on the waiting list for the apartment complex I want to live in. They think it will be a few months before they have a place ready for rent.
Im hoping to take a vacation to visit an old childhood friend sometime in June.
I don't know if this was ever mentioned, but where is your D16? Does she live with your exW, do you have an R with her?
Hi Ginger - ExW and I split time with D17. D17 is in school and also working so she's been extremely busy. She's also in the stage where all she wants to do is hang out with her friends so I don't get to spend much 1 on 1 time with her.
Hi Ginger - ExW and I split time with D17. D17 is in school and also working so she's been extremely busy. She's also in the stage where all she wants to do is hang out with her friends so I don't get to spend much 1 on 1 time with her.
Really struggling today...
My mom texted me and told me that W had given her notice at work. It's official, she's really leaving for good this time.
I'm so sorry, man. I wish there was something I could do or say to help.
Sorry bud.
What does "for good" really mean though? All you can really say is that she is going to leave. You know you can't predict or control what the future holds!
That bites, Thornton. So sorry.
Thornton,
Posted by you on 5/12/14:
"Regarding tonight, I feel panicked that this all final. She's made up her mind, received validation from her family, and she's not going to look back. I realize this is just fear, but it's so consuming".
She came back twice before. I'm saying that she will come back again, but just remember you have felt like this in the past and you were wrong. Just relax and calm down. Nothing is final until it is final. Hang in there man.
Yeah, I'm trying to come to grips with it.
Stupid me, I was holding on to some sliver of hope that things would magically work out somehow.
My heart and my mind are at war right now. My heart is the eternal optomist (love conquers all). My mind tells me the opposite (Thornton! Run from this woman!).
Correction:
I meant to say:
"I'm not saying that she will come back again..."
Matrix - thanks for putting things in perspective.
Last night I was at the gym and I got a text from a friend that lives in another state. He asked me if W and I were still together and if I was moving back to my home state.
I told him that we split about a month ago and that W was moving. I asked how he knew. He told me W (he's friends with W on Facebook) had posted on her page:
"It's official, D and I will be moving back to "hometown" at the end of the month. I'm excited, scared, sad, to be taking this next step in my life"
I dont know why that bothers me so much. It feels like she is recruiting people to symphasize with her and root her on. We have all the same friends from our hometown and I feel like she is going to go on a schmear campaign.
I know that I need to let this go as I know the truth and no one can take that from me. I guess it just hurts to see her turn against me like this and throw me under the bus to anyone who will listen, including all our old friends.
I love her and hate her at the same time. I just want to let go and learn to be happy on my own.
"It's official, D and I will be moving back to "hometown" at the end of the month. I'm excited, scared, sad, to be taking this next step in my life"
Sorry to hear man, but it isn't over until you choose that its over.
I love her and hate her at the same time. I just want to let go and learn to be happy on my own.
I remember saying the same thing about the love/hate I had for my STBEW. The best thing for me was to completely detach and it wasn't until then that I was finally "happy on my own". Just remember that detaching isn't giving up on your M. You can love your W from a distance and still work on DB'ing your M.
Hang in there
Thanks, Bdog.
I'm really trying to convince myself to let her go once and for all. This is the 3rd time she's left it's usually when we are looking to take the next step in our relationship that we will have some sort of disgreement and then she will drop the bomb.
I have to have blind faith that I will heal from this and learn alot about myself.
I don't ever want to go through this again, I'm sure it's taken years off my life.
I also don't want to become so jaded that I never try again with anyone else.
As for how I'm feeling right now, I'm done. I dont want W back. I was living in a fantasy world and idealizing her and creating this image of her in my mind that did not accurately reflect who she really was or what she really believed in.
I also know that this is a roller coaster, and my thoughts and feelings with flip flop back and forth.
I feel my anger building and I want to call her out on her BS. With some distance, I'm starting to see it wasn't all my fault. And she is more than happy to place all the blame on me and publicly announce it. I won't resort to doing that. As much as I want to defend myself, I'm not going to. This is a 180 for me and I'm not doing it to get W back. I'm doing this to prove to myself that I can rise above this without reacting to my thoughts and emotions.
I'm hoping today is the beginning of a new journey for me. I have no idea what to expect as I feel like I'm floundering in a giant sea of uncertainty. But I'm bound and determined to stand up and find out who I really am. I'm tired of the fear and I'm tired of not believing in myself.
I'm hoping today is the beginning of a new journey for me. I have no idea what to expect as I feel like I'm floundering in a giant sea of uncertainty. But I'm bound and determined to stand up and find out who I really am. I'm tired of the fear and I'm tired of not believing in myself.
T,
That's the man you are. That's the man I've seen in every post you've made, even when you're down on yourself. That's the man who is going to get through this and find his life is better than ever, no matter what W does.
Keep repeating what you wrote EVERY day. Make it a mantra. Write it in dry erase marker on your bathroom mirror. Own it.
I'm really trying to convince myself to let her go once and for all. This is the 3rd time she's left it's usually when we are looking to take the next step in our relationship that we will have some sort of disgreement and then she will drop the bomb.
Hang in there and I know you have been DB'ing for a much longer time than me. I personally decided I was done in my M because I realized one day that I deserved better. Can't tell you how to let her go, or even if you should, but I can tell you that it does get better.
We may truly never "let go" of our S's, but I know that overtime things do get easier. DB is a lifelong process even if you decide to stop working on your M. Use the principles you learned to continue to grow internally.
As for how I'm feeling right now, I'm done. I dont want W back. I was living in a fantasy world and idealizing her and creating this image of her in my mind that did not accurately reflect who she really was or what she really believed in.
As you stated already, this is an emotional rollercoaster. Give it some time to let your emotions settle before making any drastic decisions. I'm sure this is how you feel now, but don't do anything that could possibly jeopardize how you may feel tomorrow...cause you just never know.
I feel my anger building and I want to call her out on her BS.
Of course and I know many of us on here have wanted to do the same. However, I'm glad you are taking the 180 approach on this and not actually doing it. You know the truth...which means you know your own faults and what you need to work on to become a better Thornton. No amount of calling her out will ever help her realize her own faults. She needs to realize that on her own.
Anger is a powerful emotion, but I think after you deal with it you can finally start working on healing. Just be careful on how much you allow your anger to build up. It could possibly turn you "jaded" (in your words) towards any kind of reconciliation or future R's for that matter. Learn to find ways to deal with it positively. Not saying that you shouldn't feel anger, think we all have the right to, but I am saying that you don't want to hold onto it forever. Grieving is a process and anger is part of that process, but just don't let it define who you are.
Stay strong cause tomorrow is a new day
Thanks for the support, guys.
Hang in there, Thornton! We can do this.
Had counseling last night and it was really good. C would like me to volunteer at a children's home and partner up with a kid that has lost a parent or sibling. He thinks it would really be helpful for me. I'll be looking into that.
When I came home, W was sitting on the couch. I walked in and said hi and walked to the other side of the house and chatted with my folks.
W texted me from the other room that she wanted to talk so I went and sat on the couch next to her.
She wanted to let me know that she had put in her notice at work and that she was leaving on the 27th. I already knew all this because my mom had told me. I simply responded "ok".
Then she asked what I wanted to keep that was in storage. I said the bedroom furniture (I paid for it years ago) and she could keep everything else. She went off on me, saying that she had nothing. She was leaving, and didnt even have a job where she was going. She lit into me about how this was all my fault, that I had let myself ruin our relationship. She then asked that I buy her D new furniture because we got rid of her old stuff when we sold our last house (I told her I would buy D new furniture when we moved into the new house). I just listened and STFU. But inside, I wanted to tell her that she is 50% of our problem and I never forced her to do anything!
I kind of feel like I'm being extorted by W. She's pinning ALL the blame on me. She has no money and is willfully choosing to be unemployed by leaving the state to go live with her mother.
On the other hand, I love D very much and I don't want her to not have anything when she moves.
I'm concerned that if I don't buy D new stuff, that W will bad mouth me to D and/or not let me speak to her after the move. But, I also want to stand up for myself. I've owned the parts of the relationship that I messed up. I've apologized multiple times. And I've sought help for my issues. She hasn't done any of that.
Any advice?
I'm concerned that if I don't buy D new stuff, that W will bad mouth me to D and/or not let me speak to her after the move.
I hate to say this, but I don't believe those are related at all. W is already showing you the respect she feels toward you in how she is presenting you to her friends and family. Why would D be any different, especially after she starts talking about how much she misses you? Don't be held hostage, here. If you do go down this road, make it clear that you still want to be part of her life. Get some kind of agreement.
It's worth noting that even though you aren't a legal step parent, you MAY actually have some rights here (YMMV, don't know about Colorado). If you feel like you want to continue your relationship with D, it would probably make the most sense to dig into this before they leave Colorado.
Wow, I can see your dilemma here Thornton. And her decision to leave her job and move when she basically has no cash - well that's all on her. Actually, she could have stayed in stable employment and found herself and her D a new place locally if she so chose.
I can understand your desire to accede to her request, given that you want to keep in touch with your SD. I think it is pretty surprising she asked and I would be wary about bankrolling her move or anything further than this.
However, I think it would be an option to let her know that you would be happy to link with your SD and help her organise what she wants to have in her new place, working to an agreed budget. You could then go as far as ordering it online and paying for it to be delivered to their new place, so you know this will be exactly how the funds will be used.
Perhaps the process could be a bridge to you keeping in touch with your SD. You could also let your W know that you would like to keep in touch with your SD and ask her to remain supportive of your ongoing contact with SD, even if your R with her has ended.
I'm not sure if you have any 'joint' financial arrangements at all - but if you do, I would certainly get that stuff signed, sealed and sorted and end end potential grey areas financially.
Hope this helps anyway Thornton :-)
On the other hand, I love D very much and I don't want her to not have anything when she moves.
Very admirable and I commend you for it sir. Part of me would say that this is her choice so she needs to deal with the consequences, but the other part of me would say that it is for the D. Therefore, I personally would help in anyway I can but only when it comes to making the D's transition easier. I'm sure this will be hard on her as well.
My STBEW complains that she also "needs" stuff, but I just calmly reminded her that this is all her choice so if it doesn't concern the kids then don't bother texting me about it.
Sotto said what I was trying to, only much, much better.
I agree with everything Sotto said.
In addition, you can look her in the eye when she blames you for everything and tell her you are willing to own your stuff, but a relationship takes two people and you will not own her stuff too.
Thank you all for the advice.
I feel a little taken advantage of but it's important to me that D has her own things.