Spoke to WAW a little bit this morning. She's going to spend the day with her sister because her sisters MIL had a stroke. This is the first time we have had more than a few words all week. I see some pain in her eyes but she also looks at me differently. Like the love is gone. She's clearly avoiding me as much as she can. Can't believe I'm going through this again.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2737273#Post2737273
So my mom told me that WAW told her she is moving to Arizona after the school year is over and is making plans. I'm gutted.
So sorry, Thornton. But you are strong and are going to get through this one way or another. Believe that.
We're here for you.
Thanks Anna. It feels like all my hopes and dreams and sense of purpose have just vanished.
I've have always identified myself as a proud father and husband. It's what gives me joy and purpose. For WAW to walk away again after convincing me that things were different, is devastating.
I rack my brain trying to figure out why I'm so horrible that she has to run away. In her mind she has labeled me as abusive because we had a big fight and words were exchanged. This is after 10 months of us spending time and having so much fun together and maybe 2 or 3 disagreements that were easily resolved.
I just can't believe this is my life again.
Abuse is the trump card WAS's play to gain the immediate support from everyone around them for their decision. Instead of society challenging them on their decision to destroy a family, the WAS becomes a hero applauded for their strength in facing such a hard path for the betterment of their lives and to set a good example for their children. Because of this there are accusations of abuse of some type in almost every divorce and the definition has been watered down as has society's ability to hold people accountable for their decisions.
This doesn't mean all cries of abuse are false. It just means that not all cries of abuse are true either, and this is why people make that claim.
I understand it's hard to believe this is reality. The number one way these forums have helped me is by allowing me to read hundreds of different situations and start to see patterns in how people operate. It's not pretty but at least when you understand the way things work you can make informed decisions. I have no interest in being a victim for the sake of social support. I'd rather have the life I want than a sob story about how my misery is not my fault.
Zeus, you are a wise man.
Right now I literally have zero interest in anything. I'm paralyzed by my own thoughts and fears. I obsessively read the DB board because I feel so alone and reading other people's stories helps me feel like I'm not alone.
I'm having a hard time getting off the couch and my appetite is non-existent. The pit in my stomach is relentless and will probably be there for a few months.
GAL has always been very hard for me. Most of my spare time was spent with W and her D because that's what I enjoyed doing. To me, my WAW is one of a kind, I love her dearly and I can't fathom having this type of love for anyone else. She is truly unique. I'm just having a really hard time reconciling things in my mind.
Thanks for checking in my friend. Always appreciated.
Hang in there. You wouldn't believe the things first W said about me to various people during and even after our marriage. When her relationship with OM wasn't going well and she tried to use her safety net, she told me all sorts of unspeakable things about him, too, in an attempt to generate sympathy.
Your friends, and your family will know the truth. You will know the truth. As the advice everyone keeps giving goes: focus on you. Focus on D. You can make it through this, and be a better man for it.
Thank you T. I've spent a lot of time asking myself those questions too.
It is possible for someone to be a wonderful person but do horrible things. A lot of it has to do with the context of the world they live in.
Not long ago people owned slaves in our country. Some 'great men' that contributed greatly to the world we live in participated in this atrocious practice. Not because they were evil, but because that was the norm of their society and they didn't think to question it, it was just 'how things were'. I'm sure I could think of many other examples dating back all through recorded history.
Well, in today's world it is a social norm that says it is ok to pack your bags and set out on a journey of independence to quest for your personal happiness. This is our cultural narrative. We are no longer chained by rules of religion or expectations that 'to be a good wife/husband we need to stick it out', because those beliefs were 'oppressive'. As a result in today's world it is considered totally acceptable to put yourself and your own desires above those of your family or community. In fact it is encouraged. This is 'freedom'.
Personally I think this has resulted in a tremendous degradation of some of life's most precious gifts and is a huge loss for the millions that will never know the joy of a lifelong committed partnership, that will never see a spring because we don't stick it out through winter.
But that's not the point right now. You were specifically trying to wrap your head around the idea of how a 'good person' could do something so destructive. Well, there you go. The world views the real destruction as the loss of individual freedoms so this is considered normal anymore. Your WAS is a good person that has bought into some very pervasive and horrible outlooks.
Hi Thornton,
I don't really have anything to add. Kind of in the dumps myself today.... but I just wanted to reach out and give you a hug. We are here for you. ((((Thornton)))))
Sorry you are having an off day too Leah. So hard to not obsess about why this is happening. And it's hard to not worry about what our futures look like. I can't picture myself with anyone but WAW.
And I truly thought she felt the same way about me.
Journaling.
I actually slept ok last night. I stayed up late watching scary movies and went to bed before WAW made it home.
I'm trying to convince myself that WAW is a runner. She bails when things get tough.
I've also been thinking about my future and honestly having a hard time not feeling like it looks bleak. I envision a small one bedroom apartment and just going home after work everyday and watching TV.
Anyways, I hope you are all hanging in there.
Why do you feel that way Thornton?
You have you're health, a job, independence. You have the freedom to do anything you want and to go anywhere you want. You have the capability of making your life anything you would like it to be.
I know its tough in the beginning. Just know that these feelings will not last forever.
Juju, I'm following you around agreeing with you today
Thornton - firstly, really glad you got a reasonable sleep - result! That does help and is progress too.
As for your life going forward, really it's yours to make. So, if you'd like a cosy one bed and go home to watch some TV - go for it. And if you don't - go for that too!
For me, I have a cosy two bed with a patio garden, tucked away and in the heart of town. It's lovely and I have enjoyed making it my own. I enjoy the peace of living alone, and I feel lonely occasionally too - but that passes and I'm out a lot too.
For me, the best formula seems to be being out every other night or so. Then if I'm in, I've been out last night and I'm out tomorrow night. Then for me a TV dinner is just what I need!
But - if we want to live a full life going forwards, we need to work on the fullness - and that does take effort - and when you're ready you'll do it. You were about to go skydiving before you reconciled, remember? Maybe a goal there for 2017 - just sayin'
So, any time your mind goes down the 'my life will be awful' road - remind yourself, it's your life to own and you'll make it what you will. I have every confidence it is going to be a good one. I was out dancing last night and there was a Meetups crowd there who all seemed to be having a good time. That's just one option (I never did Meetups) but there are many more out there too...just depends on what floats your boat..
Have the best day possible today Thornton
We'll just had a big R talk with WAW. We were both crying our eyes out. She said she is leaving for real this time and moving 1,000 miles away.
She talked about feeling like our arguments were bigger than they were supposed to be and that our last fight broke something in her. Keep in mind we've had 2-3 arguments in the last 10 months.
I told her I was so sorry for the hurt I caused her. She mentioned that every April I get weird because it's the anniversary of my sisters death when I was 10 years old. I was placed in a psych ward at 10 years old for 3 months because I couldn't cope.
I never knew that there was a pattern until WAW brought it up. I am so incredibly hurt right now. And after hearing WAW share her pain with me, I feel so ashamed of myself.
We were so close to reaching our goal of a new home and perhaps I sabotaged it out of fear that she would leave me again.
My friends are all telling me the reasons WAW gave me are all BS. They think the contract on the house spooked her and that it meant she would never be living with her mother again. WAW has always been codependeant on her mother and will be moving back in with her in another state.
Her mom has always been an issue for us and has always been a source of contention when her mom lived here. Her mom moved away when we reconciled.
I just wish I could reconcile in my mind why this happening, again.
There is no good reason to leave most marriages. What comes out of her mouth may not be BS, but it certainly isn't justification for her decisions. And while you can apologize for hurting her and validate the pain she feels, you don't need to go so far as to play along with the idea that she is right to think that divorce is a reasonable choice for her to make.
As for not getting it, I'm glad you don't get it. The only way you would get it is if you believed that it was ok to get divorced because you got into an argument. Given the choice between understanding her and having values I'd be ok living in the dark on this one.
When it comes to fear of your single life, that is totally sensible. You have incurred a tremendous loss. Something so primal it is hard to put into words. The loss of your family, your wife, and your innocence in the way that relationships work. It isn't distorted thinking to realize that your future will be different than it would have been had she made other choices, that you will miss having a life partner, that you will be saddened by this loss for years and possibly forever to some degree. Of course you're going to rebuild your life and find ways to honor and appreciate what you still have, but this doesn't mean it isn't the darkest hour in your life. Again, I'm glad you feel this way, I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'd rather you felt this way than to be a sociopath that just shrugs it off and feels that a marriage is optional, disposable, and replaceable.
At this point there's not much to do. She's leaving so your behavior won't impact her much. You're going to feel how you feel, which will be more down than up for a while. So now it's just a matter of what you choose to invest in for the future. Nothing you can do (or should do at least) will make you feel better right now. But the things you do now may make you feel better sooner than otherwise, and give you some tools to make your life better in the future as well.
Looking back in two years and retelling the story to your friends of how you handled this situation, what would you like to be able to say you did?
Thanks, Zeus.
I would like to be able to look back and see that I rose to the occasion and faced my fears.
WAW just gets me. She and I have our own language. We can complete each other's sentences. And she knows what I'm thinking just by looking at me.
It feels like I'm never going to have that again with someone else.
"I would like to be able to look back and see that I rose to the occasion and faced my fears."
Actually for me, the most important thing has been to look back and feel at peace with how I handled things. Truly I did my best with what tools I had at the time. What XH did became less important over time, and now I only occasionally think about what he may be doing.
So, in respect of your answer above - what first steps can you take to do this?
For starters, I won't try to convince her to stay.
I've apologized for my part but I have no control over her decisions. I haven't tried to convince her that her feelings are wrong and I've validated her.
If this is what she really wants, I have to be strong enough to accept that she no longer wants me to be in her life. I hope that's not the case but it seems very likely.
Thornton,
Following your Sitch. I'm so sorry.
Our souls are refined by fire. But the furnace, she be a hot one!
Deep breaths, take it day by day. Step by step. You're going to make it.
Zeus, by the way, is hitting on ALL cylinders with his last few posts.
Preach brother, preach. Love the words you wrote. Makes me want to Kate a road trip to see you in MN.
Trumpet, thanks.
It's only been a week since bomb and I fluctuate between shock and denial to complete and total despair.
I made the mistake of making WAW my entire life so to not have her around is incredibly difficult for me. I miss my best friend.
Journaling.
This morning I feel empty. I pulled up to work and sat in my car and wondering what the purpose of my life was.
The pain is real. My stomach is in knots and my chest is tight. I even threw up in the shower this morning from anxiety.
I feel like I'm coming off heroin, and constantly feel sick.
All I want to do is hide underneath a blanket and sleep so that I don't have to feel anything.
My mind is still in shock that I'm back here after all the fun things WAW and I did in our relationship over the past 10 months since reconciling. We were like teenagers again.
And now, she wants to leave again 21 days before we closed on our new house. I called the Realtor over the weekend and let her know we would not be buying the house. I lost 3k in earnest money.
I know everyone says GAL. Its not that easy for me. I'm naturally an introvert (probably why I am codependant on WAW). Sure I can go do things by myself, but all I would be doing is thinking the same thoughts as when I'm laying on the couch.
And to top it off, because WAW and I were out doing so many things in the last 10 months, EVERYTHING is a reminder for me. And it triggers my depression and anxiety.
We'll just had a big R talk with WAW. We were both crying our eyes out. She said she is leaving for real this time and moving 1,000 miles away.
She talked about feeling like our arguments were bigger than they were supposed to be and that our last fight broke something in her. Keep in mind we've had 2-3 arguments in the last 10 months.
Blah..
Blah..
Blah..
She was leaving the last time...
She was leaving the time before that...
Blah....Blah...Blah...
You have to stop living or dying by her words buddy.
Whether she is telling the truth or not shouldn't matter for now...
Stop holding her accountable, for your emotions and reactions...
You know what, Mach? You're right. Ive heard it all before and each time she has said this time is for real.
I have got to get back in the game and man the eff up.
I'll be honest, I'm scared right now. Scared of what the future will look like. Scared how I will cope with life's curveballs when my #1 confidant no longer gives a damn. I'm terrified of being lonely and being alone with my thoughts because my thoughts cause me a lot of pain.
Changing my thought patterns has always been very challenging for me. I'm diagnosed OCD. I don't have the compulsion part as bad, but obsessing? I can obsess with the best of them.
I'm doing what I can for me right now. Taking anti-depressants. Going to the gym. Seeing my old therapist again. Trying to eat when I can. And going to bed early every night.
My biggest hurdle is shame. I feel so ashamed by everything going on. And when I listen to WAW spew the reasons she has to leave again, I really take it to heart. And it destroys me.
I know she has issues as I do. But I have never, ever, ever, left her. No matter how bad it got, I was always there. Probably my codependance that kept me in it when she would leave and come back only to leave again.
Alot of my friends think I'm crazy for even being upset by this breakup. They all say she's a "runner" and any time life gets to real or anytime things are going really well, she loses her mind and starts planting seeds for an exit strategy.
None-the-less, I blame myself. I shouldn't have yelled at her and sworn at her. It's almost like I have PTSD from the last time she left and I was probably testing her to see how she would react. She's not completely innocent, though. She has sworn at me too when things got stressful. But this was not a pattern, these were one off arguments in the last 2 months of us searching for our home. Prior to that, we haven't raised our voices in over 10 months.
Thanks for always keeping an eye on me, Mach. I really do value your input.
I'll be honest, I'm scared right now. Scared of what the future will look like. Scared how I will cope with life's curveballs when my #1 confidant no longer gives a damn. I'm terrified of being lonely and being alone with my thoughts because my thoughts cause me a lot of pain.
Well hell, here I thought that I was your #1 confidant...
Look, the future is going to happen, whether you are scared of it or not.
You can sit there, in fear, and things will happen that you will feel "unfair"...
OR
You can take charge of your future, and choose to act, rather than REact to it...
You really do have a choice...
Changing my thought patterns has always been very challenging for me. I'm diagnosed OCD. I don't have the compulsion part as bad, but obsessing? I can obsess with the best of them.
I'm doing what I can for me right now. Taking anti-depressants. Going to the gym. Seeing my old therapist again. Trying to eat when I can. And going to bed early every night.
So turn that schidt around...
Get OCD about yourself and what you want YOUR future to look like..
My biggest hurdle is shame. I feel so ashamed by everything going on. And when I listen to WAW spew the reasons she has to leave again, I really take it to heart. And it destroys me.
F that....
Things happen, thing are always gonna happen...
So shameful of what ??
Dude, she has already left you...twice ??
Maybe, just maybe, some of this isn't your fault...
Maybe she needs you to be the fall guy for her dysfunction ??
Makes it easier to face her friends when you are such an asshat...
I know she has issues as I do. But I have never, ever, ever, left her. No matter how bad it got, I was always there. Probably my codependance that kept me in it when she would leave and come back only to leave again.
So work on your issues, F her issues and leave her to it...
IF what she is saying is absolutely true, and you don't like it ??
Then you work on changing that....
If it isn't true ??
Then don't spend any time worrying about it...
As long as you know YOUR truth, that is all that should matter..
F anyone that thinks otherwise. Until they walk in your shoes, then they don't get a say into your life...
Alot of my friends think I'm crazy for even being upset by this breakup. They all say she's a "runner" and any time life gets to real or anytime things are going really well, she loses her mind and starts planting seeds for an exit strategy.
Friends just want you to feel better...
You get to choose what you do...
None-the-less, I blame myself. I shouldn't have yelled at her and sworn at her. It's almost like I have PTSD from the last time she left and I was probably testing her to see how she would react. She's not completely innocent, though. She has sworn at me too when things got stressful. But this was not a pattern, these were one off arguments in the last 2 months of us searching for our home. Prior to that, we haven't raised our voices in over 10 months.
Thanks for always keeping an eye on me, Mach. I really do value your input.
You are only responsible for 100% of your 50% of this...
She, she , she....
Blah, blah, blah...
You Thor....
More you, less her.
Do you really think, that in a healthy relationship, that one or two arguments, are make or break situations ???
Be honest here...
An entire relationship hinges on one or two arguments....
?????
Yea, I didn't think so either....
Im gonna print your response out and keep it in my wallet.
Thanks again, Mach. I know I'm a pain your a$$. Thanks for sticking with me.
Yes I agree with Mach, so we had an argument and you raised your voice...so now I'm off to Arkansas or wherever?? None of us were ideal partners and being with someone day in day out does have inevitable ups and downs. I think it is best to take what is useful from what she said and let the rest go. Ask yourself - is what happened how I want to be? Would I want to be like this in my next R? Does this fit with my own values etc.
Just to give you an example, I asked XH sometime after BD - if I could do something to save our marriage, what would that be? Dress more provocatively he said. I thought about that and I like to look attractive. I'm interested in make up and like to buy clothes etc. But provocative isn't really me and never was, so I let that one go...
Thinking about growth some more, there are some areas you've mentioned that could merit some focus:
Managing your own thoughts and the obsessive ruminating
Codependency - your investment in that R 24/7
Social skills - you mention being more introverted, but I don't think any of us should or need to rely on our partner to meet all our social needs
Also, I was so sorry to read about your sister. I lost my brother 25 years ago, and it was such a difficult time. I was in my 20s and just starting my first job after uni. Wanting to make a good impression, I just buried the grief and of course it came bubbling up years later. Do you feel you have fully healed from her loss?
I'm not pointing out these things to suggest you are in any way defective. I think we all come to this site with areas we'd like to improve and I'm just picking up on things you have posted...
For me, I have found that focusing on what I can control (me) has really helped in the much longer term...
Hope something in here is useful for you anyway, and I hope today is a little better too
Hi Sotto,
No this is definately not where I want to be. But I was willing to work on things to make them better.
All of your suggestions are great and I will be talking about those things with T tomorrow night.
I dont know if I ever got over my sister's death. Like I said, I was put in a psych ward for 3 months. My mom was medicated for a year on tranquilizers, my dad started working 80 hours a week to cope. Perhaps this is where my codependancy took root? I felt abandoned not only by my sister (she died instantly in an auto accident at 16 years old), but my parents as well.
Ive been in and out of therapy for years as I developed depression, anxiety, and OCD. I do take medication for these issues as well.
I absolutely do think this has played a role not only in the type of women I choose to date but also my issues with abandonment.
Codependancy is pretty common in my family. My brother (believe it or not) is worse than I am. He literally cannot be out of a relationship. If one relationship ends, he will find another serious relationship within a week.
Thanks for checking in, Sotto.
Thanks, Zeus.
It feels like I'm never going to have that again with someone else.
Yep, I feel the exact same way. I used to think it would be exiting learning and discovering someone new (this was during my dark days of my M). Now the thought of that saddens me.
Went to the gym after work and actually felt pretty good. I cranked some angry music and lifted some weights and did some cardio.
Feels pretty good to not feel the pain for a little while.
Hi Thornton! I had been thinking about you and your sitch earlier today. I'm very glad to read you are being active. I'd say that you are doing OK, but I personally know better. Just going through the motions; going to the gym; going to work; going to therapy; going to my divorce support group meeting is all just that - a lot of doing. However, I have also been doing a lot of crying, screaming, thinking, talking and figuring out things.
Next on my list of items to do is meeting with two different attys this week so I can know exactly what my rights are with a WAS who moved out of our home. Knowledge is power, they say and I'm about to be one powerful mother.
At least you know your WAW's achilles heel - one of them anyway - when the going gets rough, she walks away. My WAS has two that I know of - when things get hard, he walks away and his drinking.
To answer your question you left in my post - He was drinking when we met, however, not as much as he does now. It has increased and I've witnessed him recently drinking more than he had been, openly.
Perhaps you and I really do just need to get on with our lives and stop hoping, wishing, praying for the return of our spouses. I know that I've given it up to God (I'm not religious), but I figured this is out of my hands. I believe in miracles. I really do!
I want to have a coaching business where I help other women in their 40s-50s with young children whose husbands have left them. I want to help them find their own power and live the life of their dreams - without being ruled by a marriage or a man. A woman of freedom who can and does accomplish anything she sets her mind to. I've always wanted my own coaching business and now I think I truly can help other women going through this very painful process of separation and divorce to reach the other side knowing herself as an amazing woman and mom.
What have you always wanted to do/be/have that you haven't accomplished yet?
Hey Love!
Thanks for stopping by!
Smart move learning what your rights are. You're right, knowledge is power.
I think the coaching idea is a cool idea. What better way to learn how to coach this stuff by going through it yourself and coming out the other side.
I'm so glad you are detaching and giving this to God. That's actually something that can get your H back. Letting go. I'm working on it myself.
Hang in there! Word on the street is that it gets better with time
I think WAW is starting to crack.
I came home from the gym last night and my mom said that WAW came home and told her she had a really bad day at work and that she wanted to be alone in the dark in the bedroom.
I ended up watching some TV shows with my folks and having a good time laughing.
Later, I went to lay down in bed in the extra bedroom and WAW storms in and accused me of looking at a single porn video back in 2016 when we weren't even speaking. The computer used to be my brother's computer in 2016. Anyways, she looked at me like I was disgusting and like I had cheated on her. Huh???????
I explained I didnt own the computer at that time and that I don't look at porn. Then she said I never did anything like that when we were apart and stormed off.
WTF??? Where is this coming from?? Its like she is searching for reasons to hate me. I dont understand because I have been giving her plenty of space and leave her alone. But I also tell her to have a good day in the mornings when I walk out the door as this is the only time we talk all day.
What is going on with this woman??
I think WAW is starting to crack.
I came home from the gym last night and my mom said that WAW came home and told her she had a really bad day at work and that she wanted to be alone in the dark in the bedroom.
I ended up watching some TV shows with my folks and having a good time laughing.
Later, I went to lay down in bed in the extra bedroom and WAW storms in and accused me of looking at a single porn video back in 2016 when we weren't even speaking. The computer used to be my brother's computer in 2016. Anyways, she looked at me like I was disgusting and like I had cheated on her. Huh???????
I explained I didnt own the computer at that time and that I don't look at porn. Then she said I never did anything like that when we were apart and stormed off.
WTF??? Where is this coming from?? Its like she is searching for reasons to hate me. I dont understand because I have been giving her plenty of space and leave her alone. But I also tell her to have a good day in the mornings when I walk out the door as this is the only time we talk all day.
What is going on with this woman??
What's going on with her ??
Who the F knows...
Hey, remember a few years ago ??
You were here, and your thoughts were running wild about what she was doing, and who she was with, and on Facebook, she appeared to be doing really well ??
And you were sulking and wounded, and couldn't get your schidt together ??
Yea...
That ^^^^ is what she was doing..
Just that you were no contact, and dark, and didn't see it...
Soooo....
Wanna see it ??
Or better the other way ??
Yep, I remember.
I just don't like be made into a villain so she can tell all her friends and family what a monster I am and then they can all revel in her strength to leave the monster.
You're right, Mach. It doesnt matter. I can't control her and she will say and do as she will. I will keep taking the high road and not reacting to it.
On a good note, had a really good work out yesterday and was able to keep my mind off WAW for the most part. Tonight I meet with my T.
I'm also starting to eat a little more as well, so that's good.
I just don't like be made into a villain so she can tell all her friends and family what a monster I am and then they can all revel in her strength to leave the monster.
Is it true ???
Absolutely not. Not saying I'm perfect but to be made out to be a villian is absurd.
Absolutely not. Not saying I'm perfect but to be made out to be a villian is absurd.
Then why does it bother you so ??
Rise above petty Thor...
It doesn't serve you well...
I like her family alot and I care about their opinion of me. They've been good to me (not her mom) but everyone else.
Detach Thorn, detach.
Im struggling this afternoon. I felt decent all morning but my anxiety has kicked in and I miss WAW. A week ago, we would be texing funny jokes and entertaining each other.
Thornton: I really feel for you. The emotional trial can sometimes feel like it's too much. When I'm feeling anxious, angry, etc I try and find a distraction - it gives me some peace for a bit.It could be a funny movie, some music that you want to crank up and sing along. Your hobbies and interests can do it too. I personally like something physical as I often get a sense of accomplishment - which can deliver a boost too. It can be as simple as sweeping the porch, doing a long over due task/errand, starting a new project.
I'm rooting for you.
Thanks Bigybiz.
I went for a walk with a colleague and feel a little better after chatting with him for a bit.
A punching bag works wonders.
Journaling.
Had a therapy session last night. Our C was suprised to see me back again. He was sad that we are back in this predicament.
Basically, he thinks I have some sort of PTSD in relation to the previous bomb drops. As we got closer and closer to closing on our new house, my anxiety triggered (fear of her leaving me) and I lashed out when I felt her pulling away all of a sudden. Self-fulfilling prophecy?
I'm very conflicted about how feel. Most people tell me that this is a pattern and even if we did make it in the new house, eventually she would have left. It's just a matter of time.
Why oh why then do I still wish things could be fixed? I still love her.
I mentioned to C that WAW said I had no faith in her and that's why I have this fear that she'll leave again. C responded that she's the one who lost faith, 3 times.
Im trying to face my fears. I've basically been in a relationship since my teens. The longest I've been single is 3 months. I've never really experienced life completely on my own, and that scares me. I'm scared to be alone with my painful thoughts and depression, it often stirs up some really dark thoughts. I feel like I can only take so much before I lose it. The anxiety is probably the worst part. Constantly walking around with tunnel vision and a pit in my stomach, it just feels like it will never go away and that this is my new life.
I feel like to need to act quickly to fix things before WAW moves to another state. I'm in a race against time. I know realistically that there is nothing I can do to change WAW's mind or get her to reconsider. Detaching is very difficult.
I know that life will keep happening and I'll need to adjust accordingly. I just feel so sad about the death of our dream, our plans, our future. I wanted to grow old with WAW. I always envisioned us old and gray and visiting with our grandkids. It's so hard to let all those hopes and dreams vanish into thin air.
Im sitting here at work and I cannot for the life of me focus on my job.
I'm feeling really discouraged and just ready to give up. The problem is that if I give up, I'll still feel miserable.
Im sitting here at work and I cannot for the life of me focus on my job.
Thorton,
Work is overrated. You need to use this as an opportunity to stir up trouble around the office.
There's this one guy I work with; he hates fingerprints on his computer screen. How do I help him with his OCD? I put a bunch of fingerprints on his monitor. There's also the thing where you get some Hershey's chocolate syrup and squirt it on the toilet seat. There are endless ways to get the entire office into an unfocused frenzy. You shouldn't have to suffer silently and all alone; spread the wealth.
Journaling.
Had a therapy session last night. Our C was suprised to see me back again. He was sad that we are back in this predicament.
Basically, he thinks I have some sort of PTSD in relation to the previous bomb drops. As we got closer and closer to closing on our new house, my anxiety triggered (fear of her leaving me) and I lashed out when I felt her pulling away all of a sudden. Self-fulfilling prophecy?
I'm very conflicted about how feel. Most people tell me that this is a pattern and even if we did make it in the new house, eventually she would have left. It's just a matter of time.
Why oh why then do I still wish things could be fixed? I still love her.
I mentioned to C that WAW said I had no faith in her and that's why I have this fear that she'll leave again. C responded that she's the one who lost faith, 3 times.
Im trying to face my fears. I've basically been in a relationship since my teens. The longest I've been single is 3 months. I've never really experienced life completely on my own, and that scares me. I'm scared to be alone with my painful thoughts and depression, it often stirs up some really dark thoughts. I feel like I can only take so much before I lose it. The anxiety is probably the worst part. Constantly walking around with tunnel vision and a pit in my stomach, it just feels like it will never go away and that this is my new life.
I feel like to need to act quickly to fix things before WAW moves to another state. I'm in a race against time. I know realistically that there is nothing I can do to change WAW's mind or get her to reconsider. Detaching is very difficult.
I know that life will keep happening and I'll need to adjust accordingly. I just feel so sad about the death of our dream, our plans, our future. I wanted to grow old with WAW. I always envisioned us old and gray and visiting with our grandkids. It's so hard to let all those hopes and dreams vanish into thin air.
I get a lot of this. When you have a fear of abandonment it's natural to behave at your worst. It's counter-intuitive, you'd think if you were scared of being left you'd want to act your absolute best to prevent that from happening. But in reality you want to act your worst to 'test' how secure the relationship is, the reasoning being that if she doesn't leave when you're at your worst then you know you're safe. I picture it as two people tied together with a rope. If you're afraid the rope will break you start tugging incessantly to make sure it won't break. Not very effective though. Good to be aware of this dynamic. To make a relationship work you have to be able to transcend your feelings and behave according to your beliefs.
As for being alone, this is hard to believe so I saved this for second, hoping my first paragraph would lend some credibility that I understand how you feel. The truth is that you might be surprised at how being alone cures much of your depression. Oftentimes when we're depressed in a relationship it's a way to try to control your partner. By being depressed you put it on them to try to 'make you happy', etc. This is very standard codependent behavior. But once you're alone there is no one to control anymore. This sounds horrible, like 'oh no, there is no one that will medicate me so I'm not depressed'. But in reality once that person is gone anymore being depressed has no value. See, you were depressed for a good reason, it got you something you wanted. But alone it will do nothing for you so it wouldn't surprise me if you simply stopped feeling this way. Like a 4 year old throwing a tantrum trying to get what they want. Once they get sent to their room they stay mad for a while, but then they realize no one is listening to them or being affected by their fit but themselves, so they decide to calm down and stop being upset.
I speak on all of this from experience. I'm not saying divorce is a positive. Not at all. What I am saying is that I have never been better than the last two years after the BD dust settled. Too bad we never had a shot to see if we could break that dynamic without destroying a family and a marriage. But it turns out that the fear of abandonment is much worse than the reality. It's ok to feel terrified, just know in your head it won't be the nightmare you're afraid of. It's just life.
Zeus - you know me better than myself. I almost want to show WAW your response to me because I never understood my feelings and how to convey them.
I think you're right. Subconciously, I needed to test the relationship before buying a big expensive home. I have had some mild anxiety once we made an offer. Im sure WAW did too. But she still looked me in the eye and told me I was stuck with her unless I beat or cheated on her. She told me those words a week before leaving.
I find your insight on codependancy intriguing. I very much feel like I have issues with codependancy but I thought I was doing much better. We haven't had any issues at all since our reconciliation 10 months ago except for the last month or so when the house went under contract.
Thanks so much for your positive outlook.
You and Mach should consider becoming LMFT's. Not kidding.
I know what you mean about not being able to focus at work (doodler, man, you are funny as heck, thanks for the laugh), I'm in the same boat. Hang in there, Zeus pointed out that you'll get through this. You're being blamed, but it's not your fault, and you don't deserve what's happening.
Hang in there.
Hey Thornton,
Just wanted to send you my support. I know that sadness, darkness and loneliness.
One thing that has been helpful for me is to understand that when I start sinking into that pit where all feels lost, it is because I'm re-experiencing some trauma from abandonment or rejection. In other words, it's inside my head. In reality, I'm going to be just fine no matter what happens. Others can see it but I can't, because I'm wearing my lenses that determine how I perceive things about my life.
I might be sad for awhile as I grieve and face being alone, but I will be okay in the end.
The choices that people make are about themselves. Your W is doing what she is doing because it feels right to her in the circumstances, not because of your value or worth (to her or to anyone.) Just as you see things through your filter, she sees them through her filter. And neither one of you determine one another's intrinsic worth.
Hang in there and don't let yourself sink. I find repeating "I'm going to be okay" and "this isn't about me" to be the best way to stop it when I feel the all consuming darkness rising up.
You told me that all is not necessarily lost, even when it feels hopeless. Try to remember that advice for yourself, too.
East and Cadence,
Thanks for encouragement and ideas on how to cope with some of this stuff.
Spoke to WAW a little bit this morning. She's going to spend the day with her sister because her sisters MIL had a stroke. This is the first time we have had more than a few words all week. I see some pain in her eyes but she also looks at me differently. Like the love is gone. She's clearly avoiding me as much as she can.
Can't believe I'm going through this again.http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2737273#Post2737273 Thornton,
((( )))
As you know, I'm with you! So, maybe instead of saying you "can't believe you're going through this again"
you can say you "will NOT go through this again".
I mean, if that's how you feel. We do have a choice.
I ache for you and as you can imagine, your story line resonates brutally with me.
Keep posting, it obviously helps.
(( ))
My friends are all telling me the reasons WAW gave me are all BS. They think the contract on the house spooked her and that it meant she would never be living with her mother again.
WAW has always been codependeant on her mother and will be moving back in with her in another state.
Her mom has always been an issue for us and has always been a source of contention when her mom lived here. Her mom moved away when we reconciled.
I just wish I could reconcile in my mind why this happening, again.
Part of the reason is contained here^^.
I suggest you watch the film "Happy" on netflix as it has data that helps us. We do control our own happiness in the long run. Also I suggest watching the TED talks on positive psychology by Sean Achor or Amy Cuddy, which are only about 20 minutes long. Very interesting.
But longer term,
I just don't know another way of getting through this to the other side, without GAL.
I made a list of things I assumed/hoped h and I would do someday that would make all this crap somehow worth it. The "great future!"
Then I looked at the list and wondered how to grab things off of it that I could do, anyhow. Without h.
Other than having a smaller home, I'm finding that a lot of the list of things I'd really like to do, are still available.
And believe it or not, I know there are things on the list that I can now ADD b/c h's relentless restlessness and obsession with Alaska/ALASKA/ALASKA
would have prevented or hindered it. You are in a slump, which I get. And you are also using the "time machine".
You are mourning the loss of the marriage you hoped to have in the future, (and sometimes seemed to have.)
But there were 2 BD's in 3 years, and now a 3rd one.
And with her mom issues and other obvious internal struggles, I'm not sure the great future would have happened with her, anyhow.
The sick feeling in your gut, will pass. You will suddenly say "oh, she's gone and I'm still alive. I did not die. And I'm still a father. I still have a job, food on my table, etc"
Keep posting. And at some point, ACT on the list of GAL you have.
Here is another suggestion or exercise that helps me.
Imagine for a minute that your w had passed away. Just for a minute! You'd grieve of course. You would mourn her. But you would not lie in the fetal position forever, right? Besides your d would want to see what processing grief looks like & still need you.
So imagine for just a few minutes, that enough time had passed for you to get past the grief...
and that you were happy. You would no longer factor her into your choices. Remember, in this exercise you are happy, without her.
What would your life look like? Would your job change? Where would you live, any new hobbies, or travel, exercise programs, classes, outdoor activities,
what would your life look like without her, and you were happy?
And so, what of those things^^, can you do now?
25,
Thanks so much for your post. It really resonated with me.
I'm trying to force myself to accept that WAW is not a good partner for me.
I've been reading up on Love Addiction and some of the things I've read, I identify with. The Love Addict dating the Avoidant never works and it's all a fantasy.
I've always felt weak when it comes to this board because I see so many people start to find their footing alot quicker than I do. I could never figure out why it seemed like I keep getting stuck while I watch other newbies start to find strength and detach much quicker than me.
I also wondered why it seems that I experience more panic(one of the main symptoms of love addiction) than I do sadness. Just the opposite of most folks here.
I'm going to print out the article I read and give it to my therapist.
Everyone keeps telling me that I will get past this with time. It certainly does not feel like it at all. I feel like I've been stripped of my sense of self as I viewed life through WAW's lense.
Honestly, I'm scared of love addiction. But if in fact, I am addicted, at least I know where to start to fix myself.
That's interesting Thornton and good for you with the reading and the research. I found that when I started to think academically about 'the problem' of my failing marriage, it helped a lot.
From what you post, there has certainly been a dynamic going on in your R thus far - with the looping and your own panic. It sounds like a good idea to discuss something that resonated so much with your therapist.
If you take the path of growth (as you are doing with this) you can only win. If you decided you wanted to give her another chance, you would have grown and the R would re-start in a healthier place. And if not? Well, you are more self-aware, independent and emotionally mature. Those are qualities that are very attractive to some other lucky woman further down the road...
Also, try to drop the comparisons - others seem to...and I don't seem to.. Just focus on steps forward and be kind to yourself. We all get to where we want to be in our own way and in our own time.
Take care Thornton :-)
Great advice, Sotto. Thank you.
Today I'm a little more at ease but I can sense the anxiety just below the surface waiting to show itself.
I vacillate between feeling like I'm going to be alright (after I have experienced the pain of letting go) and feeling like this is the end of the world.
My mind cannot picture being with anyone else but WAW. I know, I need to stay in the here and now and make it through today and not think about my future. But it is really hard.
Thanks for stopping by.
So, today you're a little more at ease - that's good.
And sometimes you feel you're going to be alright - that's progress
I need to stay in there here and not and make it through today - yes that's all
Some great stuff above...and what you focus on grows
The other thoughts...
I can sense anxiety (ie: like some lurking menace)...just notice that and let it go, or do an activity that helps soothe. Don't fear the fear, just gently lean in.
I feel it's the end of the world - it takes a while to really get perspective, but in the great scheme of things (I'm not minimising how awful it may feel, but in time..)
You don't need to picture being with anyone else - way to early for that..
Just focus on the very short term. Today - over the weekend - I used to find it overwhelming to think ahead, so stick to the here and now..
I think you're making progress Thornton :-)
I'm doing everything I can, Sotto.
Still working out and tonight I'm going out for Happy Hour with a work colleague.
So WAW came home last night after spending the last 3 nights at her sisters house. She actually started talking to me and wished me a goodnight. Wait a second, I thought I was "abusive"? Why is she even talking to at all?
Then this morning on my way out the door she peeked her head out of the bathroom and said to have a good day. Huh?
I really don't know what to think about all of this. I know I shouldn't spend any time trying to decipher what it means and why she is suddenly being nice but it's hard not to wonder.
Perhaps she is trying to keep me as a friend while she moves to another state? I have no interest in being friends.
Confused.
Don't think anything about it
Don't think anything about it
I agree....
Thinking....got you here, didn't it ?
Yep. My best thinking is what got me here.
It's throwing me for a loop because the other bomb drops, we both immediately went NC until we reconciled.
This time is so different. If she is leaving, I would prefer if she didn't act nice to me.
Yep. My best thinking is what got me here.
It's throwing me for a loop because the other bomb drops, we both immediately went NC until we reconciled.
This time is so different. If she is leaving, I would prefer if she didn't act nice to me.
That's nice you'd prefer she doesn't act nice to you, but you can't control how she acts towards you.
You have control over how one person acts. That would be you.
I agree with the others Thornton. don't spend too much valuable time on stuff like that. The aim is steady as she goes whether she is being nice or nasty..
Hope you had a better day yesterday :-)
I went and had drinks with a friend after work and had a good time. It was nice to not think about my sitch for a few hours.
I came home and WAW was back to being standoffish. I ignored it and ended up watching a movie and going to bed.
I'm trying my best to detach and to get myself to accept that our R is over and that she is really moving away in a month or two. It doesn't seem real, I'm sure I'm in denial. I just don't see how things will turn around.
I'm also trying my hardest not to blame the entire breakup on myself. I really struggle with that. I know WAW has issues but I feel like I've placed her in a pedestal over the last 10 months because things were really good and she seemed to be onboard this time.
I hate feeling like I'm the one to blame for everything while she gets to tell everyone she knows how awful I am.
I hear you, Thornton. I feel like there is a whole state that thinks I'm some sort of vindictive loser.
Here is an anecdote I need to remind myself of, which may help you see that part for what it is.
When I was first a L, I worked downtown. I'd take the subway and at my stop there was a homeless man who lived on a warm grill. For whatever reason, he HATED me.
he'd yell the most vulgar things at me, and for sure was directing the remarks to ME.
I recall wondering why my suit bothered him, or who I reminded him of, or whether my facial expression was too pre-occupied, etc.
One day my boss & I walked by the homeless man, who then screamed the same epithets at me and I was mortified. You know, like it reflected on ME.
My boss said "oh, 25, is that your old boyfriend?" Which was hilarious at the time.
Point is, I let a homeless man's rewarks to AND about me, bother ME!
His "data about me" was not real. Maybe it was due to some drug use on his end, or some trauma or some misfiring of synapses,
but it had nothing to do with ME or who I am or what I have done.
SOMETIMES, that's what is happening with a WAS.
The challenge for us is to bravely examine our own roles, own them and then let go of the rest. Turn it over to God.
Though in MY h's world, HE is the LBSer...-(Yeah, I know, incredible)
what he tells the world as to why I would "out of nowhere filed for D"
(actually it was from the state we lived in, which h left, but those are just details, details...)
Anyhow, I just have no control over it. None. Yet it nags at me.
So I remind myself that "H's data is NOT real and the rest of this I turn over to God.
As long we do the brave inner work, it's all about when we put the piece that belongs to us, down (b/c we worked or are working on it,).
and get back on our own path.
((( )))
Great post, 25.
It just feels so surreal to be viewed as a villain by WAW when just a few short weeks ago she was literally giddy because we were buying a home and going to get engaged.
I keep trying to find a reason why she would do this. I've read about borderline personality disorder, love avoidance and several other things because I just want to make sense of things so I can have an "a-ha!" moment to diagnose what our issue is.
I know detaching is crucial so I don't obsess. Easier said than done. Maybe I'm looking for some other reason so I don't blame myself so much?
Great post, 25.
It just feels so surreal to be viewed as a villain by WAW when just a few short weeks ago she was literally giddy because we were buying a home and going to get engaged.
I keep trying to find a reason why she would do this.
you will not find a "good" answer. She may not have one, or know one, or have 3 stupid meaningless ones, or maybe she secretly thinks you are a purple lesbian dinosaur...
OR maybe the issues you are addressing are too little too late.
Honestly, what difference does it make in how YOU live, now? I'm asking.
I've read about borderline personality disorder, love avoidance and several other things because I just want to make sense of things so I can have an "a-ha!" moment to diagnose what our issue is.
This^^ makes it ALL about what is wrong with HER...and even if she does have some underlying pathology, your next obsession might be why YOU didn't see it sooner?
Or what YOU could have done to...blah blah blah...it's all retrospective
from what I have seen of your thread, she's relatively new in your life (sorry but I'm coming from a m almost as old as you are).
So you know you have been happy before she came along. And you will be again.
Do you know this?
I know detaching is crucial so I don't obsess. Easier said than done. Maybe I'm looking for some other reason so I don't blame myself so much?
well, we all do that. Owning our own role is, at first, devastating.
Later we realize that the flaws we DO want to work on, the ones we are at first ashamed of but then working on, are making us better people.
By doing the one thing we can do to reduce the chances of this ordeal happening again, we are becoming better people.
I also think a part of the obsessing is b/c we want to believe there is hope. Or more hope.
And there might be.
I'm still struggling with this at times even though in my head I know that h is SO UNLIKELY to do the work I'd need to trust him again, that a recon is exceedingly unlikely.
it's hard to do when 2/3 of your life has been married to this person. I miss the h I once had, and yet I recoil at what I hear and see of him the past several months. IF this is who he is now, no thanks. My son said "good riddance to lunacy". I think you are mourning what you hoped for, b/c a woman who changes that much that fast, will never give you peace or security. Sorry buddy.
The truth is that without a time machine to go into the future you hoped for together that would require work on her end, that she has not done. Why do it now?
Check my post for what h's own L said about him. Signs of mental illness, etc.
Mostly that makes me feel worse, to tell you the truth.
(I admit part of me feels vindicated like "See? He's crazy - so I'm not a loser!!", but that is mostly ego).
But as the mother of our children, and his friend and wife of decades, it makes me sad.
And yet, deep inside, I am also a little relieved that it's his sandbox, not mine.
make sense?
It does make sense, 25. Thank you.
Been a little while since I checked in around here, sorry to read through this thread Thornton. From a well healed outside perspective, I'll chime in. Although Zeus, Mach, Sotto, and 25 are knocking it out of the park.
Man, is it hard to read about the roller coaster you're going through brother, I feel for you. That being said, all the basics still apply and apply heavily in your situation.
Every single question you have about why she's doing XY or Z? Doesn't matter in the slightest. No amount of understanding will bring her back. Use that energy elsewhere.
There's an archetypal pattern inherent in all heartbreak so realize the fear and anxiety is no different than your gas light going off when the tank gets low - it just has to. You having abandonment issues only makes it light up and feel more noticeable. So give yourself that bit of leeway. You're human, it hurts, a lot.
I have to say man, freedom is an inside job. You and I both had WAW's with three departures, so I know the road you're on. It's up and down, back and forth, pot holes some days, beautiful scenery others. It's also crazy-making. The longer you've been on it the more you want it all to pan out in the end due to the size of your investment. But, the peace you get when you're finally of standing next to the road and realizing you don't have put up with the nonsense anymore is glorious.
She's told you three times she's leaving, so nothing's really changed other than your false belief she may stay. Nothing, in reality, is different though is it? She's still going to go and most likely was all along. But here's the twist my friend - she's not your concern any more.
Here's the way I'd look at this, I wrote about it a while a thread - the Island Theory. You lived on an island with her, and now have been kicked off - sorry, chit happens though so time to move forward.
Everyday you wake up and god, or Oprah, or whoever runs things in the Universe hands you $100 to spend for the day. That's it, but it's enough. You've got two choices: spend as much as you can building up your new, amazing, brilliant, gratitude filled, peaceful, healthy, emotionally intelligent, beautiful NEW island....one that you can design exactly how you want it with one caveat - you can't make her live there with you (and again, I say this as a fellow triple LBS...maybe it's time to find someone who finds reasons to stay).
We're the same age, and from what I've read, you're in good health. That means the world is your oyster. You can literally do anything you set your mind and heart to. Anything Thornton. Anything. Swallow that and let it settle. Other women will finish your sentences, they'll get you, they'll do all the things your WAS does....plus more...and they won't leave. Don't fool yourself that she's the only one, it's just not true. There are incredible women out there, MILLIONS of them. (that's a lot btw)
So there's that option right?
Or you can spend your $100 on wondering why, keeping the past alive, worrying, being fearful, anxious, and disempowered. What's that building though? Nothing at all.
Freedom is an inside job...the choice is yours.
Sure, there is a natural process you need to go through with grieving, eating some ice cream and feeling like snot for a while, but after that, it's time to start investing.
If it isn't actively building Island #2, it's not worth a penny of your time or energy. Not one cent. She's not. This situation isn't. Worry isn't. Fear isn't. Be bold in sticking with the DB basics, and start building your new life. You've got nothing to fear here, and everything to gain.
Cheers from the other side,
PP
Pigpen! Thanks so much for checking in!
You really inspired me with your words. Our sitches are so similiar and it gives me ALOT to look forward to knowing that you are thriving and didn't die from a broken heart.
I'm going to keep trying to detach. Sometimes I do pretty well at it. Other times, not so much.
It's really hard looking inward at myself. I don't like what I see and I really do want to change. I guess I just struggle with believing in myself. Being left 3x really messes with my sense of self worth. I'm not perfect in the slightest, but I can honestly say that I have supported WAW and her daughter during some very hard times. I have loved her child like my own and have a great relationship with her daughter.
Basically, I'm a nice guy. And I know there's a fine line between being nice and being a doormat.
I refuse to beg, plead, or kiss her a55. I've apologized for my part, she hasn't done anything but assign blame and go on about her life. I'm hoping I can tap into some anger soon to help propel me towards detaching from her and looking at our relationship objectively.
I have made mistakes, but I have never given up on WAW. Giving up doesnt resonate with me. She's done some pretty sh1tty things to me too, and after I've processed things, I chose to forgive.
I realize I need to be careful not to make myself a victim here. I knew what I was getting into after the first BD. I chose to forgive and love her, warts and all. Maybe I'm ashamed that I've allowed myself to get hurt again. Sometimes I don't trust my intuition and perhaps have abandoned myself.
I have to find a way to find my own happiness and not rely on her to tell me I'm a good man. Especially when she can tell me I'm a bad man so easily.
Thanks again for your post, my friend. I am so happy that you are doboth mg well. Keep in touch!
Thorn
WAW just got all dolled up to go a retirement party that I was supposed to go along with her. She literally could not care any less for me.
I also just stumbled upon the lovely birthday card she gave me in November. She's a completely different person now because we had 2 arguments in 10 months???
I feel so mad that I allowed her back in my life. I fell for her 3 hour cry fest at the Starbucks 10 months ago. She was so genuine that my heart ached for her.
The memories replay in my head and make me feel sick to my stomach.
And for her to take her daughter away from the only father she has ever known makes me sick. All she cares about is herself.
I don't want to be vindictive. And like Mach says, use your anger as a shield and not a weapon.
Thornton,
I feel so strongly for you. This pain is unlike any other that I've ever experienced. It truly takes your breath away. We will get through this, and hopefully someday, be able to post like Pigpen, from the other side, where there is healing.
Hey, Thornton.
So when you are you getting all spiffy for an event that you're attending (even if you have to make one up)?
Honestly, I know you're devastated. I, too, had to say goodbye to kids that weren't mine. I said goodbye also knowing that I'd spent the last of my childbearing years with their father and now I'll never have any of my own, and they were supposed to be my family. I said goodbye knowing that they needed a stable woman like me in their life, but it's not to be.
I talked to them, and told them that leaving wasn't my choice, and I wanted to stay but there comes a point where you don't let people treat you poorly. I needed them to know that moving out wasn't a decision I took lightly and that if it were up to me, I'd stay.
I cried while talking to them, because I couldn't help it, but I tried to remember that I didn't want them dragged into it or worried. And that was the last that I could do to try to let them know that I cared, to keep them safe from pain, and guide them toward an emotionally healthy life.
(And now I'm blubbering remembering it. They were both so sweet to me.)
It's not fair but it's a risk that we take when we get involved with a parent. When you feel like a victim, remember that. I could be hollering about the injustice I just experienced, but I'm not. It was a risk and I took it, and I've got the person in the mirror to blame.
But try to have some fun with this. Try. You have value and it's her loss if she doesn't know that aside from when you take her word and move on from her. So don't wait until then.
Trust me when I tell you that you deserve to spoil yourself a bit. Get dressed up and go out, preferably when she can see you. And it doesn't matter if you're just meeting friends, or taking yourself out for a dinner and a movie. Just go do it and feel the relief of not being sad at home. You are expressing your value, to her and to yourself, when you treat yourself well. And I think you need to be reminded that you are worthy just as you are, and this one woman does not get to determine your worth to the world.
Honestly, she's silly. She bounces around and is full of tears when she sees you moving on, but then ups and does the same thing. This is not a strong person, and, though you love her, she is not a prize. She has issues inside of her and a man with high self esteem would run like the wind from her and not give her enough of his life for her to be able to project her BS onto him.
Have you heard of intermittent reinforcement? Where a rat pushing a lever for a piece of cheese will stop pushing the lever if they're never rewarded? And they'll tire of the lever even if they consistently get cheese? But that something happens when they push the lever and they only get cheese sometimes, where it makes them more determined to get that #^&*@ cheese? Because I think that some of the back and forth has served as intermittent reinforcement for you and has made you more determined that you need that cheese and that cheese is your redemption. But it's just cheese, dude.
So back up and gain some perspective. I am all for feeling sorry for yourself in small doses, because it's part of the grieving process, but get up and at 'em. For you, not her.
Amazing post, Cadence. Thank you for your brutal honesty.
Thornton
You seem self aware, which puts you miles ahead of most people (and certainly ahead of your w, though it's not a contest).
When you discuss how you chose to forgive, it resonates with me obviously.
Perhaps (maybe?) a piece of you feels like you turned the other cheek, and got slapped for it.
I know that thought has crossed my mind and I wondered why my devotion and "Standing" for the m with such loyalty, was not rewarded with some form of gratitude or enhanced m.
I think you wonder if your loving forgiveness was wasted. Well, as Cadence's situation alludes to and shows,
I'm not sure we can feel bad about really truly forgiving someone's wrong against us. It's a good thing to model and to know that in your life, you have loved (given love) deeply.
On my deathbed I know it will mean more to me to know I GAVE love, than that I got it.
I think it was an honorable thing to forgive. The problem arises when we confuse forgiveness & letting go, with letting someone cross our boundaries repeatedly.
Perhaps that is where some of the inner work begins?
Cadence,
great post and I'm sorry for your loss of childbearing years. I hope there is some sort of continuing r with those children, or can be someday?
You modeled grace in the face of adversity and that will be remembered.
((( )))
Cadence
the intermittent reinforcement ! YES BF Skinner....
I've often thought of that! It's our spouse's inconsistent crap that throws us when we get a bone thrown our way.
In my case, h had some very moving, (even public) moments of clarity where tremendous remorse was shown...
and then it went away. Not sure why...but
what I learned about ME so far is, that I clung to those morsels SO MUCH MORE than I should have.
As if those short loving gestures/experiences and moments of contentment or closeness, somehow made up for dozens of very bad ones -and plenty of neglect - b/c I chose to focus only on the parts that validated my choice to stay.
OMG Wow, sometimes writing things out here helps b/c I just had an AHA moment.
Thornton, your thread is helping ME and while I don't want to project my stuff on you,
is any of this resonating?
Amazing post, Cadence. Thank you for your brutal honesty.
Well, these situations are brutal and if anything called for brutal honesty, it is this.
I just want you to know that I know your pain and I feel it too. You're not alone. But honestly think bigger picture about what it is that bothers you about her actions. Because I think you'll find your clue about how you heal from this for good, no matter what she does.
In my case, I know that even if he comes back, it doesn't make the root cause better. So I'm going to work on what led me to stay in this situation. And maybe someday he'll get the courage to do some digging himself.
Here are the things that cause my chest to tighten:
- Abandonment and rejection
- Someone getting too close (I think I'm a passive commitmentphobe and H is an active)
- The idea that I may have been a practice round that leads him to understand his issues and he goes and gets better and some other woman gets the life that I wanted.
Ugly, but true. And I've got to dig into those. When I back up and look at them objectively, I don't hurt as badly. Because this situation is triggering my issues and that's why it's so devastating to me. I think you'll find the same.
I'm sorry for your loss of childbearing years. I hope there is some sort of continuing r with those children, or can be someday?
Thank you. I never thought I wanted kids, so I never pursued it. But dear god was it painful falling in love with someone who was a good dad, knowing he didn't want more.
On Christmas Eve, I was playing with his young nephews, and he kept coming up to me and whispering about what a good mom I'd be, and how sad he is that we'll never have that experience together, and that he wishes he could give me kids. I had to tell him to knock it off because it kept making me teary. But it was okay, because we had our whole future planned out, and I knew that he loved me. And that's what I'd always wanted - solid partnership with someone who loved me.
So it's something that I struggle with, but I'd only ever wanted to bring kids into a situation where they were secure and loved, and I still hadn't found that for myself. It is what it is.
I don't know that I have a continuing relationship with them. They're teenagers, and it's so hard because their mom was very possessive of them and would guilt trip them for being close with me. So we were close, but no one admitted it. I think about the younger girl and if she would want to hear from me, but I'm honestly not sure. It may be better to let it go, and maybe I'll see them again someday. If I knew it hurt her not to hear from me, I'd get in touch, but I'm not sure that it does.
As if those short loving gestures/experiences and moments of contentment or closeness, somehow made up for dozens of very bad ones -and plenty of neglect - b/c I chose to focus only on the parts that validated my choice to stay.
And, from the opposite view, perhaps the unwavering love that we provided allowed them to value us less. "Ho hum, another piece of cheese."
That's why boundaries and valuing ourselves to not easily give up the cheese are so important.
Happy Easter everyone.
I woke up this morning obviously thinking about my sitch. I think it's finally starting to sink in that I need to give up on WAW.
Cadence - I thought a lot about your post to me. You're right, my W isn't a prize. She does have issues. As do I. I vacillate between idealizing her and thinking about all the nice things she's done for me and all the times it appeared she could just shut her feelings off for me and go about her business.
I think I'm starting to realize that I could have been the perfect partner and she probably would have found a reason to leave anyways. At least that's what everyone is telling me.
I know that the pain I'm in is supposed to be molding me into a better person. I just don't see how. I honestly don't think I've ever fully healed from any of my breakups in the past. I would just start dating a new girl after a while.
I want, no I need, to be stronger. Or this pattern will keep repeating itself. I don't even know who I am without a partner. That's not good.
while there most certainly is a time to assess whether to move on, I have to ask what the harm may be to develop/prepare yourself without drawing a conclusion. meaning that many actions can be taken alone, such as the 180 approach when at your wits ends
I don't even know who I am without a partner. That's not good.
I definitely identify with you on this. Co-dependency's a bítch, huh? And we didn't even see it right there in plain sight until it was too late. But would either of us have fixed it without a BD? I suspect I would have made a cursory attempt, but nothing that might rock the boat too much. I agree with Cadence, though, time to go out and do your own thing once in a while. I think I'm like you in a lot of ways. There are days when I sit in this room and just get sucked into the shíttiness of it all...and then I walk outside and see daylight and realize that there's more in life than that dark little office I've been cramped up in.
What's the first cool thing on your list you're going to go out and do? I think I remember someone saying skydiving earlier in your thread??
I think it's a pretty brave thing to admit you don't know who you are without a partner and that you went from one relationship to the next.
Try to see this time the best you can as a gift to get to know yourself and learn how to be responsible for your own happiness. It will enrich yourself and your relationships going forward.
See the gifts in this and take full advantage of them.
Well another weekend has come and gone.
WAW and I have very little interaction. The little interaction we do have is friendly. I'm acting as if everything is ok and still playing with her daughter and having a good time. I can tell WAW needs to keep her distance from me in order to keep up the negative feelings she has for me.
Honestly, she does not look good right now. She has bags under her eyes and her eyes look lifeless. Sometimes its like I dont even know who she is. Amazing how quickly things have changed from 2 weeks ago. I'm hoping I dont fall apart when she drives off with all her stuff to start a new life in another state with her mother.
Im still struggling to GAL at the moment. I just don't feel up to it right now. Watching funny sitcoms has been a lifesaver for me (Big Bang Theory is hilarious) and allows me to laugh a little bit when I'm not obsessing over my sitch.
I'll be back in the gym tonight and then have counseling tomorrow after work.
Lately I've been playing with my step daughter a lot. I want her to know that I love her and that I consider her my daughter before she moves with her mother to another state.
After playing with SD for a while, WAW comes out from her room and goes off on me. She says I'm hurting SD because I'm playing with her and spending time with her. She says she's so mad at me for doing this to "us". I just let her vent and didn't say a word.
10 minutes later she comes out and apologized for going off on me.
Honestly guys, this isn't my W. when she acts like this it makes it easier for me to detach. Her anger is excessive and over the top and from an outsider looking in, it's very unattractive.
- The idea that I may have been a practice round that leads him to understand his issues and he goes and gets better and some other woman gets the life that I wanted.
This one resonates with me. My first wife said pretty much exactly that to me. That she didn't want some other woman getting to live HER life (and she said this after she left me for her affair partner!)
I can sadly state that I made most of the same mistakes in my second marriage as I did in my first, and my wife left for many of the same reasons.
One thing I've learned is that people don't REALLY change unless something traumatic happens. They might modify their behavior somewhat, but underneath, they're the same. being the left behind spouse is trauma. Being an [censored] that abandons your spouse probably isn't.
You're not the practice round. You were the main event, and HE was the one who walked away from that. No one else is going to get YOUR life. They're going to get the same mess from him that you did.
Lately I've been playing with my step daughter a lot. I want her to know that I love her and that I consider her my daughter before she moves with her mother to another state.
After playing with SD for a while, WAW comes out from her room and goes off on me. She says I'm hurting SD because I'm playing with her and spending time with her. She says she's so mad at me for doing this to "us". I just let her vent and didn't say a word.
10 minutes later she comes out and apologized for going off on me.
Honestly guys, this isn't my W. when she acts like this it makes it easier for me to detach. Her anger is excessive and over the top and from an outsider looking in, it's very unattractive.
That's GUILT driving that anger, T. She knows that she is taking D away from her father, which is who you are no matter what some piece of paper says. She's the one hurting her, and because she can't accept that, she's blaming YOU for it.
Make every moment you have with that little girl count. Make sure she KNOWS that you love her. Unlike her mother, SHE will always love you, and no matter where life takes you or her, I have no doubt that you and your daughter will see each other again. You might have to wait ten years until she's her own person and can make her own choices, but she WILL be back.
East - thanks.
I really can't fathom how WAW has changed so suddenly. When she went off on me she even said that I was the reason she had to quit a job she loves because of all this. What a bunch of crap.
I'm not forcing her to do anything. Ive respected her wish for space. Haven't brought up any relationship talks. I've left her alone besides telling her to have a good day when I walk out the door in the morning.
I anticipate WAW trying more and more to bait me into an argument so she can point the finger at me as the reason she has to leave. She has taken ZERO responsibility for her part.
WAW is also snapping at her daughter, alot. I dont understand it. It breaks my heart that this is happening again.
I have no control over WAW but I do have control over myself. I will not allow myself to react to WAW. I dont want to have any regrets when she leaves and I want to know I left everything on the table to try and make things right with her.
You're not the practice round. You were the main event, and HE was the one who walked away from that. No one else is going to get YOUR life. They're going to get the same mess from him that you did.
Thanks. I'm not so sure. Aside from me seems to date women like his mother (an odd combination of controlling and dependent) and replays that relationship, trying to win them over to prove something to himself. And, of course, the side effect is that he's safe because he can't get close.
I was the exception, and the one he could actually get emotionally close with. He met me when he was doing his first - and only - stint in therapy, so I don't think that's a fluke.
He acts entirely different with the other type of woman than with me. I'm the only one he got angry with, set boundaries with, and parented (better than his actual kids. Boy that was fun!) With them, he is submissive and doubtful of himself. One would think he'd value what we had, but giving him enough safety and security to assert himself meant that I got all of the anger he had for the women who would not allow that.
So he made progress in choosing me, but resorted to his old "skills" and it blew up again.
He's now at a point where he's not going to be happy for long with his old type of woman, now that he's been in an actual loving relationship rather than something that resembles that. Blaming me for his unhappiness means he also doesn't see a need to work on himself and change. So it's possible he's going to realize that he can't get what he wants with how he operates, and go get some help.
At that point, he'll either look me up or some other woman will have arrived and met him at the right time.
Plus, a great deal of the stress on our relationship was from his heinous ex, and he only had to deal with her for a few more years. So that part is painful for me, too. We faced so much stress so early on (thanks to her) that I thought our relationship was rock-solid, until I think he hit an internal crisis. I couldn't help him with that crisis because he was so busy projecting it onto me and telling himself he'd feel better if he got away from me.
So it kills me that someone else could get the future we worked hard to build because of timing. I have to hope that underneath all of this, he is still connected to me emotionally.
He did the same thing to me in 2014. Picked a stupid fight and used it as a reason to leave. I'm starting to think he's been in MLC since I met him, and that was a premature return. All of his pretty words about the error of his ways didn't mean anything when it came to preventing the behavior.
Sorry to potentiall threadjack, Thornton. But I think our exes are similar in some ways, so maybe there's something valuable here for you, too.
No problem, Cadence. Your post resonated with me as well.
Clearly, our WAS's have issues. But so do we. The difference is that we are willing to work on the issues, they aren't.
During the 6 years I've been with W, I have seen a few therapists. I want to get better. I want to learn how to have a healthy relationship. W never did any of this stuff.
I often wonder why I didn't expect more from W. I'm sure it's because of my fear of her leaving me because I insinuated that I'm not the responsible for ALL the problems in the relationship.
Like you, 10 months ago, W contacted me after 3 months of NC. She asked to meet for coffee. As soon as she saw me pull up in the parking lot, she walked towards me and started bawling. She hugged me and wouldn't let go. She then proceeded to spill her guts for 3 hours while crying in front of all the Starbucks customers. I can only imagine that it probably looked like I was dumping her to an outsider!
She promised me the moon and the stars. And I beleived every word out of her mouth. How could I not? She was a mess and seemed genuine.
I wonder where ^^^ that person went??? The last few weeks have been so different. After our argument, she ended things with me and is cold as ice. A few times she has been friendly and it's almost like she catches herself and convinces herself that she has to maintain this anger with me.
I see her trying to find things to keep herself mad at me, but I'm not giving her any ammo. And I think that makes her mad. She wants me to be some monster that she and her daughter are escaping from. Ironically, her daughter gravitates toward me more than she does her mom. In fact, last night W went off on me for sitting and watching a tv show with her D with my arm around her. What she doesn't know is that her daughter sat next to me and physically took my arm and put it around her so that she could cuddle up to me.
All my friends are telling me to run as fast as I can from her. They all seem to think she has some deep issues from her crazy childhood. A few people have brought up Borderline Personality Disorder.
I know my friends and I cant diagnose her with a mood disorder. But it does help me to detach when I feel completely and totally powerless to fix her or help her get better.
Clearly, our WAS's have issues. But so do we. The difference is that we are willing to work on the issues, they aren't.
Yup. And we're thinking about what they might be, and we're trying to change ourselves rather than other people.
I'm sure it's because of my fear of her leaving me because I insinuated that I'm not the responsible for ALL the problems in the relationship.
I was pretty clear with H that I felt he should be in counseling. He seemed to have some trauma surfacing, especially regarding his kids. There were a few times when I woke up at 5:30am to him wailing and hitting his head against the headboard, because he was so worried about what his ex was doing to his son (emotionally).
He agreed with me that he needed to address whatever was going on, for his own sake and to be a better parent. But he never followed through.
And I was naive and never thought it would be projected onto me.
Like you, 10 months ago, W contacted me after 3 months of NC. She asked to meet for coffee. As soon as she saw me pull up in the parking lot, she walked towards me and started bawling. She hugged me and wouldn't let go. She then proceeded to spill her guts for 3 hours while crying in front of all the Starbucks customers. I can only imagine that it probably looked like I was dumping her to an outsider!
She promised me the moon and the stars. And I beleived every word out of her mouth. How could I not? She was a mess and seemed genuine.
Aww.
That's a bit over the top, though, right? Other adults who behave this way are people from whom others with a healthier outlook would run. But I understand that you loved her and wanted to believe what she was saying. And the fact that she seemed almost embarrassingly emotionally out of control meant she really loved you, right?
No judgment. I saw H, and he told me how his father was ill and he thought "she's the only one who will understand". It wasn't long before he brushed my hair behind my ear and called me a pet name. He told me he was so sorry and that he'd loved me the entire time (9 months of NC) and never wanted to be apart from me.
I made him work a bit and didn't just jump back in. He'd been dating someone else, his usual type.
Making him prove himself wasn't enough. I heard the words. I saw his behavior. I know he loves me as much as he's capable. And until he deals with his inner demons, he can't be the man I need him to be. It's as simple as that.
After our argument, she ended things with me and is cold as ice. A few times she has been friendly and it's almost like she catches herself and convinces herself that she has to maintain this anger with me.
Absolutely. I got the same. I wouldn't give him the satisfaction of seeing that it was hurting me, though. I walked tall, and didn't speak to him but would respond when he spoke to me, and made sure I spoke to everyone else in a happy voice.
It didn't make a lick of difference. When I was packing, he tried to pick several fights with me and I wouldn't bite. Boy, that was hard. I wanted to cry and yell at him about how what he was doing made no sense. (And I cried in private and vented to friends.)
I see her trying to find things to keep herself mad at me, but I'm not giving her any ammo. And I think that makes her mad.
I'm sorry. Yes, I experienced the same thing. He wasn't seeing me for me, rather he saw me as something from which he wanted to escape. And he didn't even understand why so he tried to invent things.
The level of anger did not make any sense. I didn't cheat, I didn't steal, I didn't shoot anyone's puppy. If things were as he said, and he was making a rational choice and didn't want to be with me anymore, why couldn't he be friendly/mature? Because the reasons he said were not the real reason.
All my friends are telling me to run as fast as I can from her. They all seem to think she has some deep issues from her crazy childhood. A few people have brought up Borderline Personality Disorder.
You know, it's possible. I've thought about H having a personality disorder because it felt an awful lot like splitting, but I don't think so. He's normally pretty empathetic and kind. If anything, it's a history of trauma and imitating the narcissists he grew up with. I felt like I got to see what his childhood was like. It didn't feel very good.
Your friends care about you and they see your hurt. They see that you've tried so hard and W keeps doing the same thing over and over. They mean well, and their advice (run) is about taking care of you. I know you don't want to let her go so don't. Move on without moving on, if that's what you need.
But it does help me to detach when I feel completely and totally powerless to fix her or help her get better.
You are 100% powerless to help her. No matter who she is, we can never change nor fix someone else. They have to want it for themselves, and she's shown you that she doesn't.
I think that she sees that you don't let her pretend. You know who she is and you know she could be doing better. And she wants to get away from the mirror you are holding up.
I read your history, and in your first thread you talk about her history with alcoholism. I might think that she never addressed what led her to self-medicate with alcohol, and it's whatever that is that is causing her to act out toward you.
Let go, my friend. This is her journey now. No one knows what will happen, but she's got to learn that there are consequences for her choices and that you are not a doormat.
Moving out was one of the hardest things I've done. That night, I was almost catatonic from having a sobbing fit the moment I stopped moving. But I did it, because I am no one's emotional punching bag. I continue to have doubts about whether it was the right choice, especially after reading DR and it seems that staying and let the MLCer/WAH be the one to leave. But I've found peace, and I couldn't find it with him. Whatever will happen will happen.
Another great post, Cadence.
I'm slowly letting her go. I am certainly not letting her see me sweat. When we are at home together, Im the one joking around with her daughter and my folks. While she stomps around with a scowl on her face.
All my friends are telling me to run as fast as I can from her. They all seem to think she has some deep issues from her crazy childhood.
Your friends just see the pain you're going through, and want you to feel better. So they tell you to get away from the source of your pain. Maybe that's the right thing to do. Maybe it's not.
I have a guy that works for me, and his life experience is pretty limited. I think of him as, if not a son (he's only ten years younger than me) at least as a kid brother or nephew, so when he needs to talk, I always listen. One thing I've told him is that advice is just that: advice. It's what people who care about you think the right answer to your problem is based on their life experience.
But in the end, they don't have to life your life, you do. So you listen to the advice, you run it through your head... and if it still doesn't feel like the right decision, you do what you think is right, and then own it.
I wish I had your cool. I KNOW that if I did, things wouldn't be as bad as they are between W and I right now. She never would have left if I hadn't pushed her to. She never would have taken off her ring if I hadn't pushed her to. If I could have worked past the pain, and just left her alone, maybe things would be different.
Thornton, YOU, more than anyone else here, are the guy I'm rooting for. The bit about SD breaks my heart because it could be me.
You're the guy I wish I could be right now. You might not be able to piece what you had back together, but at least you've got a plan, at least you're doing the work. I'm still feeling sorry for myself. Keep doing what you're doing, man. Even if it doesn't work, you're being the best you you can be.
Hi Thornton, I'm pleased to read that your posts seem to be a little more upbeat and you are coping better with the situation.
A couple of things to think about perhaps. I would agree from all that you post that she may have some issues. Whether there is some borderline personality disorder there or not - who knows? However, it is important to take a balanced view of the situation. In any relationship breakdown, there are things to own. She may or may not choose to pick up, examine and work on hers - that's up to her. It's up to each of us whether we chose to pick up, examine and work on the things we own too.
I was recently chatting to someone who has been through a marital break up. It was a difficult break up as so many are and he made it to the other side intact. He now has the view that - I'm a great guy - she was defective - and I now need to find a great gal - and all shall be well. I don't think things are so straightforward and it takes two, you know? In fact, from all this guy said, he was pretty submissive in the marital relationship and he came to see his exW as controlling and borderline abusive. But of course his passivity was a factor in that dynamic too. All in all, he may have missed out on learning some things that could benefit a future relationship.
It's nice that you and her daughter have a good relationship, and I hope that will endure whatever the outcome. In my situation, I do keep in touch with my stepson. I was involved in his life from when he was four until he was 15, and both he and his Mum call me his 'other' Mum - which is kind. I'm lucky that we get to stay in touch. Is your current level of interaction with her daughter about at the same level as usual? I think it is best to try and maintain your usual level of interaction with her - ie: not increase that or withdraw either. Sometimes in these situations, people increase their effort with kids in order to try and influence the outcome they seek. I'm not suggesting this is happening, only that it is something to bear in mind and be aware of.
I'm also hoping you may manage a little GAL sometime soon too. I'm not suggesting bar, nightclub or social GAL if that doesn't work for you. But something that does get you out and about doing something you enjoy might be a good plan perhaps?
Thanks for the kind words, East. I really appreciate it.
Sotto - I absolutely agree with you. I know I have issues as well. The only difference between W and I is I'm open to feedback and making changes in therapy. I don't want to repeat my mistakes.
I know I have some unresolved childhood trauma that definately contributed to issues in the relationship. Unfortunately, during my time with WAW, she has re-enforced some of those issues. Honestly, that is for me to own because I took the risk of getting back with her, twice.
I certainly hope that WAW will let me stay in contact with her D. But I have a feeling she has been telling everyone within earshot that I'm a monster. And if that's the case, how can she justify letting her D stay in contact with me?
In the meantime, I'm nearing the point where I'm going to start forcing myself to GAL. Sometimes I like to hole up in my cave and lick my wounds until I start feeling stronger. I definately need to start exploring a little bit.
Absolutely Thornton - two strand approach...
Work on healing those wounds which still cause you pain and free yourself from that burden. Release the residual feelings from your childhood...
And, start exploring what nice new things the world has to offer. Remember the one a month mission? Try a few things and see what you like..
Apart from work, friends and working out - what else might you genuinely enjoy doing?
Sotto - if Im honest with you, I have no idea.
I'm sure my depression isn't helping. I dont really feel excited about doing anything right now. I will do things because I know I need to force myself.
I had therapy last night and my therapist and I are coming up with ways to boost my self esteem.
I talked alot about why I feel I need WAW even though she has proven to be a "runner" when things got bumpy. It's basically codependance mixed with a fear of abandonment stemming from the stuff I went through as a kid.
I talked alot about the shame and embarrassment I have for allowing myself to be in this predicament again. C was very happy that I was just spilling my guts about my fears and insecurities.
We then talked a little about WAW. My C is well versed in attachment theory. Basically, I have an anxious attachment style and WAW has an avoidant style. Her history speaks for itself. Lots of short relationships, lots of job changes, and frequent moves to other states.
He described the push/pull that happens in these types of relationships and how we end up in this continual "dance" with each other.
Honestly I thought I was doing much better with my stuff. I haven't been clingy or pressing her to spend more time with me for quite some time. And that's probably why I thought we were going to make it this time.
So... I need to start beleiving in myself. I also need to allow myself to feel my feelings no matter how uncomfortable they are. I tend to run from my feelings when they get to be too painful. All of this stems from my childhood.
Then I started talking about why I pick the women I do. My ex-wife is a bipolar alcoholic. The girl I dated after her for 4 years was emotionally unavailable and younger. WAW has issues from her childhood stemming from her parents violent divorce and her mother's subsequent relationships with lots of men (including getting married to a drug dealer that was sent to prison).
Basically, I rescue women. Subconsciously, if I see a woman that needs help or rescuing, I slap on my Codependent Super Hero Costume and spring into action. If I can save her, she will love me forever and never, ever, leave me.
Just writing this ^^^ stuff generates a feeling of shame/embarrassment for me. I feel broken and unworthy.
Couple all of that stuff ^^^ with WAW being an expert in projecting blame and never taking responsibility for her stuff, and its the perfect storm of shame for me.
Alot of the people Im close to have no idea I feel like this. So I carry it around like it's my shameful secret.
I need to start being ok with being uncomfortable for a while. Because in order to change this about myself, I am going to face some very painful emotions that I've probably stuffed for quite some time.
Thanks for reading.
That sounds like a useful session Thornton and good to be aware of these dynamics..
As for the shame you feel. I see none of what you have posted as shameful - merely human. You may want to have a look at Brene Brown's work on shame, including her two TED talks. Reading and watching her has been life changing for me.
I'm sure this exploration will serve you well, albeit the delving may not be comfortable - but it is necessary I think...
Now for GAL - as you may know, I have GAL with gusto after our separation and I have no regrets on that front. None of my GAL has involved any one on one contact with guys - though I do have some new guy friends. So, I'm not suggesting you date or even think about that. But I am laying down the gauntlet for you to come up with two ideas for GAL this week that you feel you may enjoy...and that would extend your comfort zone a little...
Then I started talking about why I pick the women I do. My ex-wife is a bipolar alcoholic. The girl I dated after her for 4 years was emotionally unavailable and younger. WAW has issues from her childhood stemming from her parents violent divorce and her mother's subsequent relationships with lots of men (including getting married to a drug dealer that was sent to prison).
Basically, I rescue women. Subconsciously, if I see a woman that needs help or rescuing, I slap on my Codependent Super Hero Costume and spring into action. If I can save her, she will love me forever and never, ever, leave me.
Just writing this ^^^ stuff generates a feeling of shame/embarrassment for me. I feel broken and unworthy.
Awful lot of "her" in YOUR session....
So....why do you think that you pick these types of Women ???
Just curious, cause I have thoughts....
Sotto - thank you. I just feel shame over the things I did to contribute to another break up. We had a heated argument and I lashed out at her. In the meantime, I will start thinking about GAL things to do.
Mach - Honestly I think it's my codependance. Maybe I dont feel deserving of a stable women. Or maybe I dont think a stable woman is capable of being interested in me. I'm not sure. I do notice that I always look for the good in people. I dont think I have the same warning bells go off in my head when a red flag presents itself like other people do.
What I do know is that I'm tired of going through this stuff.
Would love to hear what you think, Mach.
Would love to hear what you think, Mach.
Without knowing you, and having the benefit of hearing your stories deeper than your words here...
Knowing your history from the start of posting for you....
If I were to guess....
Somewhere buried deep inside of you...
You are attracted to saving Women, because you couldn't save your sister...
Every time you "fix", or ride in on a white horse, somewhere deep in your mind, you are rescuing her...
If I am out of line saying it, please let me know....
Not out of line at all. I always welcome your honesty, seriously.
I have never even considered that before, Mach. That is definately something I need to look into. I'm actually surprised that has never crossed my mind in all the years of my obsessing about it.
Really appreciate you shining a spotlight on that for me.
I just know how deeply personal that is for you..
And I am honest about what I see, however I never want to be insensitive...
So, if you were to join a large social network, and used your posting name here, with a DB after it...??
I think that a lot of things that you talk about come from stuff that happened years ago for you.
And I don't think that most of it is a conscious choice that you make.
I see a lot of your decisions being emotional ones rather that rational ones...
And deeply emotional decisions, come from that place that you are searching for...
I don't think that your decisions are all bad, I just think that you are ass-deep before you realize them..