Hi everyone,
I've been reading this forum and and off for the past few months. It has been of tremendous help. I thought I would post since my situation seems to have come to an impasse.
My wife and I are both 46, married for 25 years and have 4 children.
She is in an PA that I believe started in January and it is still ongoing. I confronted her outright about a month ago so it has been in the open since then.
I've been doing DB tactics and making plenty of mistakes along the way. I'm doing my best to GAL, take care of myself, stay strong and not plead with her to stop. However, I've tried a few times to suggest that she leave and we separate but she refuses. She insists on wanting her own space which is her code for i want to pursue the affair. Of course she has gone so far as to point out I should be the one to leave. I should be the one to give up the MBR.
At this point we are still sharing the MBR. Honestly it seems like it is worse for her but there is no way that I am leaving the MBR or getting my own place.
The situation is complicated by the fact that she has no job and too much time on her hands. She's idle and unhappy.
Can anyone give advice on how to improve the situation for me? How can I get her to leave the house in a dignified way? Yes at this point I still want her back and am willing to work on the marriage if she were to stop her affair and cease contact with the OM. However, I have faced my fears and I'm not afraid of separation or D.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
there is no way that I am leaving the MBR or getting my own place.
Good, that would be one of the worse mistakes you could make.
Understand that one thing might have nothing to do with the other.
What are the finances like?
Are you giving her money to finance her affair?
Thanks so much for the reply.
Well since she doesn't have a job I feel like everything is enabling the affair. Gas, cell phone, etc. To set boundaries against those basics seems difficult but I'm willing to listen.
Our finances are so-so. A D would be devastating but we could find the money to rent a place for her right now. The next time she brings up the topic of suffocating and needing space I'm going to suggest I help her find her own place. She will push back but it seems like at some point she could break.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
The next time she brings up the topic of suffocating and needing space I'm going to suggest I help her find her own place.
resolut,
I can understand how treacherous her hollow life must be. She should probably find her own place. You could help her pack a suitcase and give her $20 for the Uber driver.
I'm going through something similar, though I don't have a quarter century invested in mine
I feel for you, man.
My SAHM wife was the same way. Everything I did enabled her, though of course she didn't see it that way. After the bomb drop, I was doing literally EVERYTHING other than picking up our daughter from school. I felt like I was completely enabling her, with everything I did, and, of course, she had as much "space" as she needed to pursue the things she wanted from outside of the marriage.
She's out of the house now, and I'm still supporting her (around $800 a month between her and what I give her to take care of our daughter on the weekend). She still hasn't even seriously pursued a job.
I really don't think there is a good answer here short of some formal agreement. Good luck getting that, as she has no reason to change what she's doing.
Thanks doodler and EastTN.
I've been stuck in this for a month now since I confronted her with the proof I had of the PA. She won't leave she says because of the kids. She doesn't want to leave them.
I should also mention she blames me of endless failures over the past 25 years. I ever saw her. I always shamed her. She was never in love with me she says. Etc. I don't believe any of that and I'm doing what I can to not let it take me down but it hurts.
I'm seeing a counselor which helps immensely. All I can think of to do is stay strong and dig in my own heels. I know she is eating cake on me but she obviously has too much fear to leave. I haven't offered to work with her yet on leaving so perhaps that will help?
Definatly talk to a lawyer. Are you in a no fault state? Leaving has huge implications regarding kids and custody so I'm glad you're staying strong but sorry you're here.
Definatly talk to a lawyer. Are you in a no fault state? Leaving has huge implications regarding kids and custody so I'm glad you're staying strong but sorry you're here.
Yes we live in a no fault state. We've already decided we will do mediation if it comes to divorce.
I think I could be a lot better if she would leave.
I feel for you, as I'm having some similar issues. My wife bought a house in Dec, but she's still here. She's "fixing up" the other house, but "don't worry, I'm definitively moving out". And I'm paying for it all.
On the one hand, I suspect I have a better chance to reconcile if she's still here, but on the other, I am sure she's leaving, so I wish she would get on with it.
For what it's worth, when the couple across the street divorced, they sold the house, because, in her words, "he just wouldn't leave." A bit extreme, but that's what it might take.
I feel for you. Going through something similar.
For what it's worth, when the couple across the street divorced they sold the house, because, in the wife's words, "he just wouldn't move out."
I don't have much hope on reconciliation based on our latest conversation on Sunday. She's completely checked out at this point. I'd be happy to be proven wrong though.
The topic will surely come up again soon from her and this time I'm going to push for her to get her own place and job.
In the meantime I'm just concerned about me. The further I move along from knowing about the affair and obsessing over it, it tends to hurt less.
I think I'm saying what I am about to say not only to you but as a reminder to myself.
Absolutely anything can happen in these situations. I've been completely down and out and trying to accept that my W wasn't coming back but she did, twice!
Absolutely anything can happen in these situations. I've been completely down and out and trying to accept that my W wasn't coming back but she did, twice!
Yes I honestly do believe that but she is far, far away now. On Sunday it was as if I had committed war crimes for the past 25 years of our marriage. She claimed she was never in love with me once. I wouldn't wish that conversation on my worst enemy. I did my very best to sit there and listen and not plead or argue or break down.
I had to remind myself over and over that its not really her talking. She is so engrossed in this affair and the fog that nothing is normal to her. It is like my 46yo wife has regressed into being an adolescent and showing many traits of an addict.
I had to remind myself over and over that its not really her talking. She is so engrossed in this affair and the fog that nothing is normal to her. It is like my 46yo wife has regressed into being an adolescent and showing many traits of an addict.
Not really.
Absolutely anything can happen in these situations. I've been completely down and out and trying to accept that my W wasn't coming back but she did, twice!
Yes I honestly do believe that but she is far, far away now. On Sunday it was as if I had committed war crimes for the past 25 years of our marriage. She claimed she was never in love with me once. I wouldn't wish that conversation on my worst enemy. I did my very best to sit there and listen and not plead or argue or break down.
I had to remind myself over and over that its not really her talking. She is so engrossed in this affair and the fog that nothing is normal to her. It is like my 46yo wife has regressed into being an adolescent and showing many traits of an addict.
Sounds familiar to me.
I had to remind myself over and over that its not really her talking. She is so engrossed in this affair and the fog that nothing is normal to her. It is like my 46yo wife has regressed into being an adolescent and showing many traits of an addict.
I've had some time to mull this one over. One thing that you must remember is that people change. And, when people want out for reasons we can't identify or maybe to satisfy our own weak thinking, we tend to make up things for an explanation - hence the terms alien or fog or whatever. The elephant in the room that no one discusses is that an affair isn't the result of some afterthought...they just don't happen overnight. Just like the decision to leave a marriage doesn't happen over night, neither does an affair. At the same time, affairs can't be blamed on the affair partner...the partner didn't force them to sleep with them or whatever, it was a conscious decision. Think about that for a minute. It was a conscious decision.
So, for whatever reason, we for our own selfish reasons want a person like that back, knowing full well it may very well happen again. Then what? The best thing you can do is take care of yourself and make yourself the best you can be. Don't roll over or whatever. You need YOU.
Absolutely anything can happen in these situations. I've been completely down and out and trying to accept that my W wasn't coming back but she did, twice!
Yes I honestly do believe that but she is far, far away now. On Sunday it was as if I had committed war crimes for the past 25 years of our marriage. She claimed she was never in love with me once. I wouldn't wish that conversation on my worst enemy.
So what are your personal boundaries? your W is in a PA with another man, and she still gets to sleep in your marital bed? Why are you having ^^ these conversations to begin with?
I had to remind myself over and over that its not really her talking. She is so engrossed in this affair and the fog that nothing is normal to her. It is like my 46yo wife has regressed into being an adolescent and showing many traits of an addict.
I've had some time to mull this one over. One thing that you must remember is that people change. And, when people want out for reasons we can't identify or maybe to satisfy our own weak thinking, we tend to make up things for an explanation - hence the terms alien or fog or whatever. The elephant in the room that no one discusses is that an affair isn't the result of some afterthought...they just don't happen overnight. Just like the decision to leave a marriage doesn't happen over night, neither does an affair. At the same time, affairs can't be blamed on the affair partner...the partner didn't force them to sleep with them or whatever, it was a conscious decision. Think about that for a minute. It was a conscious decision.
So, for whatever reason, we for our own selfish reasons want a person like that back, knowing full well it may very well happen again. Then what? The best thing you can do is take care of yourself and make yourself the best you can be. Don't roll over or whatever. You need YOU.
Yes. I understand what you are saying. Although I contributed to the affair from an emotional standpoint, she was the one to take the physical steps. And yes I do get it that she has checked out a long time ago, years. She's made that clear to me.
I think when you are 25 plus years into a relationship and have 4 kids it takes a long time to detach and reach the point where you can just walk away. Although I am ambivalent about the marriage, I currently sway more to being willing to accept her back and try to reconcile. Although, there would need to be serious steps taken to end the A and have no contact, etc.
Thanks for your thoughts.
So what are your personal boundaries? your W is in a PA with another man, and she still gets to sleep in your marital bed? Why are you having ^^ these conversations to begin with?
That's easier said than done from my standpoint. I have told her I want her to leave the MBR and move out. She refuses. Doesn't want to leave the children. I will continue to tell her these two things. Short of serving her with divorce papers myself, which I'm not yet willing to do, my options seem limited. this sort of stalemate must surely happen in other marriages.
I am definitely open to hearing of 180's though and perhaps I need to set more boundaries. I am staying strong and not giving her any ground. I know I was much weaker in the days when I found out about the PA and confronted her. The grieving and shock took some time to get over with and I made plenty of mistakes by pleading and pursueing. I'm taking steps to move into a more empowered role in the marriage now.
Although I contributed to the affair from an emotional standpoint, she was the one to take the physical steps.
Good grief. You DID NOT. Don't try to take the blame for a cheater's actions. Period. Dude, you need to call it for what it is, and stop trying to blame yourself. She made the conscious decision. While your actions may have resulted in her wanting a divorce, she was checked out LONG before the affair happened. To think that you caused it is bullshite. And stop trying to justify her affair...that's the lowest thing a spouse can do to another.
I think when you are 25 plus years into a relationship and have 4 kids it takes a long time to detach and reach the point where you can just walk away. Although I am ambivalent about the marriage, I currently sway more to being willing to accept her back and try to reconcile. Although, there would need to be serious steps taken to end the A and have no contact, etc.
10 years and two kids. Yep, takes a long time to detach. Why are you willing to overlook an affair?
No I'm not taking any of the blame at all. Yes she definitely made the decision and continues to. And I agree 100% she was checked out years ago. It is so much easier to see that now. But of course she makes so many things up and blames everything on me.
All I am saying is that over the years there are things I was inadequate at and I do own those. But no I am not accepting responsibility in any way for the affair. I'm sorry if what I wrote in my earlier post made it sound that way. Thanks for insisting and setting the record straight though.
I never said I was willing to overlook the affair. I mean that I'm still at the point of being willing to try and work on the marriage through MC if she ends the affair. If I wasn't willing then I would just go and file for D today.
Well my wife finally left the MBR on her own last night. I guess staying strong is working. She tried to give me so much guilt but I just let it bounce off.
I reminded her that I'm the one still in the marriage and she has left. My next 180 is to tell her I'm ready to move on her from her and work on a timeline for separation with her moving out.
I still feel like someone has punched me in the gut and I have no appetite but I know I am moving things in the right direction now instead of being weak like I was in my grief of the situation and betrayal.
If a SAHM removes herself from the marital home, I do not support the idea of the LBH financing her lifestyle. Why should he pay for her to live apart from him while she enjoys not having the responsibility of working to provide for herself?
So, you confronted her about the PA. Did she say it would stop or that she did not want a divorce? Did she say anything, other than blaming you?
How old are your children?
Can you give us more marital history? Have either of you engaged in inappropriate behavior in the past?
If a SAHM removes herself from the marital home, I do not support the idea of the LBH financing her lifestyle. Why should he pay for her to live apart from him while she enjoys not having the responsibility of working to provide for herself?
I agree. I am not paying for her to get her own place. I want her to get a job, her own bank account and manage her own budget, etc. Step one though is getting her out the door.
So, you confronted her about the PA. Did she say it would stop or that she did not want a divorce? Did she say anything, other than blaming you?
When confronted about the A she would not stop it but said she wanted a divorce but more space in the meantime. I interpret that to mean she wants her cake eating and is not ready to leave her children or comforts. Like I said the next step is a conversation of me telling her I am moving on from her and she needs to move out and get her own place.
How old are your children?
11, 17, 19, 23
Can you give us more marital history? Have either of you engaged in inappropriate behavior in the past?
I have not but she had one PA over 10 years ago that she snapped right out of. Also, she was in an EA that I do not think turned PA but I could easily be wrong.
Hi - quick update on my situation. My wife has begun looking at apartments and doing so independently from me. I didn't expect this but I feel happy and relieved that she is doing this. We still need to collaborate on many things regarding this transition but I'm feeling positive. It will sure make the DB'ing much easier with her out of the picture. Easier to GAL and do things for myself and be a better father to my children.
What are your ages? Who is she having an affair with? What is his status?
We're both 46. He is 16 years older than her, divorced and has 3 college age to adult children.
My suggestion is make sure she understands that she is responsible for financing herself.
Be aware that she might want to use you to help out with whatever job she has in her new apartment (plumbing, electricity, carpentry, computer setup, fixtures, etc.) It's not a sure thing, but many W's have called their H to go over and "fix" whatever, b/c they are used to him filling that Mr. Fix-It" role.
Let her move out and work on yourself. She will find out the grass isn't greener and the two of them can not survive on his social security benefits. You then can decide if you want her back.
Let her move out and work on yourself. She will find out the grass isn't greener and the two of them can not survive on his social security benefits. You then can decide if you want her back.
Yes thank you. This is how I am feeling right now. I'm relieved and looking forward to going dark once she is out of the house.
And yes to the other suggestion of no financial support.
Have you set goals about working on yourself?
Yes. I have been working out, lost 15 pounds and am training to do a 5k. I'm playing a team sport with other men once a week.
I'm also working on my relationship with God and trying to learn to pray. More than anything I have been doing this has been the most helpful.
I'm also going to start working with my counselor to reflect on my personality traits and considering how I might improve if i end up moving on someday to another relationship.
In the meantime my situation hasn't changed all that much. My wife has left the MBR but this only works when my son is away at college. He'll be home for the entire summer soon so she won't have anyplace to sleep except with me.
The children haven't been told anything.
I met with an attorney to represent me once we start mediation. Essentially we will be financially ruined after a divorce. My wife was taken aback that I met with an attorney and wondering why I want to push things along so fast!?!? Ugh
I told her this isn't what I want but I'm taking steps to move on. She is still dragging her feet and its more apparent than ever that she is cake eating.
I'm thinking of meeting with a DB counselor as well to help suggest more 180's and coach me through standing up to her, hit me with a 2x4, etc. I'd like to read the DR book. I just wish it was on Kindle. It would be hard to conceal it and try to read it.
Just a few updates for me. I have decided to meet with a DB counselor.
I'm going back to taking things slow which I hope is part of the 37 rules. I'm not initiating topics that could easily turn into arguments. What is the point? I am just focusing on my own life and the kids. There are plenty of gray areas in this but I'm so tired of getting into conversations that just repeat themselves and me trying to re-explain things over and over.
Sounds like you are heading in the right direction.
I am just focusing on my own life and the kids. There are plenty of gray areas in this but I'm so tired of getting into conversations that just repeat themselves and me trying to re-explain things over and over.
This is a behavior that seems to be common with some (not all) LBH's, especially those with the NGS. Some W bullies her H by means of her every changing mood swings. He walks around on eggshells trying not to say or do something to set her off. When she starts blasting away at him, he tries "explaining" things to her. However, she doesn't want an
explanation.......b/c she
wants to blast him.
I'm not sure what you mean by taking things slow. Can you explain?
I'm not sure what you mean by taking things slow. Can you explain?
By taking things slow I mean I'm avoiding conflicts. There are plenty of things I could call her out on but I've just avoiding. I guess this is walking on eggshells but still seems to be within the scope of the 37 rules.
Part of me thinks what is the rush of starting mediation on the divorce. I could push her into it. I could file tomorrow. She says there is no hope for the marriage. My behavior drove her into the A. She's never loved me. Blah. Blah. I don't believe any of it and think she is either justifying her actions or just trying to hurt me.
So I'm living with a woman that is in an active A. She is cake eating. Short of death of a spouse or family member, it may be the worst place to be. But I'm going to continue to follow the 37 rules in hopes that her affair comes to an end in some way. I'd rather end the marriage through MC than have it be dissolved now while the affair is active. I have definitely fallen out of love with her at this point.
Also, sandi2 a lot of what you are saying applies to me. Now when my W and I have a disagreement she brings so much ammunition into the argument that is purely unnecessary. Here I have to keep DB'ing and not fall for escalating and engaging with her. When both parties agree the marriage is basically over it seems ridiculous to argue over small things doesn't it? At this point we're just on the same terms as co-workers.
My final thoughts are with my children. I'm willing to put up with this pain right now because I know the fallout of a divorce is going to be so destructive on their lives for reasons I won't go into. I'm holding on for now to see if perhaps the A will take a turn or she brings us into divorce mediation.
Just because she refuses to separate doesn't mean you don't separate. You get a say in this too. In fact, you get all the say. You just need to realize that.
By taking things slow I mean I'm avoiding conflicts. There are plenty of things I could call her out on but I've just avoiding. I guess this is walking on eggshells but still seems to be within the scope of the 37 rules.
Did you avoid conflicts in the past, or would it be totally new behavior? Yes, it is walking on eggshells. How do you see it as being within the scope of the 37 rules?
Also, sandi2 a lot of what you are saying applies to me. Now when my W and I have a disagreement she brings so much ammunition into the argument that is purely unnecessary. Here I have to keep DB'ing and not fall for escalating and engaging with her. When both parties agree the marriage is basically over it seems ridiculous to argue over small things doesn't it? At this point we're just on the same terms as co-workers.
Here's the thing about the mindset of a wayward wife.....she does not use logic. She operates out of her emotions, and she is motivated by her selfishness.
I'm holding on for now to see if perhaps the A will take a turn or she brings us into divorce mediation.
Do you see this ^^^^^ being a passive position?
Just because she refuses to separate doesn't mean you don't separate. You get a say in this too. In fact, you get all the say. You just need to realize that.
I do and it may come to that. I'm not the one leaving the house.
She just doesn't have the money to get her own place as a SAHM. That just leaves her AP to pay for it. She's in a pickle right now.
Did you avoid conflicts in the past, or would it be totally new behavior? Yes, it is walking on eggshells. How do you see it as being within the scope of the 37 rules?
I would say that I didn't go out of my way to avoid conflicts in the past but sometimes. I took my share of verbal beatings from her for sure. Arguing is not what she states our issues were in the marriage prior to the A. She says I never could "see" who she really is and that my actions constantly shamed her. Maybe there is some to that and I am willing to own up to it. Some of it might just be to shame me right now and hurt me. I'm more than willing to unpack her feelings though within MC but of course the A would have to end and she would need to ask me to come to reconciliation.
I think I'm trying hard on rules 19 and 21.
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
21. Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
My final thoughts are with my children. I'm willing to put up with this pain right now because I know the fallout of a divorce is going to be so destructive on their lives for reasons I won't go into. I'm holding on for now to see if perhaps the A will take a turn or she brings us into divorce mediation.
Hello resolut,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
Be cautious regarding telling the children. Michele has an excellent article that I'm happy to send you, no charge.
Please call or email me if you would like the link to the article.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Just because she refuses to separate doesn't mean you don't separate. You get a say in this too. In fact, you get all the say. You just need to realize that.
I do and it may come to that. I'm not the one leaving the house.
She just doesn't have the money to get her own place as a SAHM. That just leaves her AP to pay for it. She's in a pickle right now.
A pickle she put herself in and is 100% responsible for. Actions have consequences. Imagine that. You stay strong and firm on your boundaries. If she can't afford to take the kids on her own then she can leave without them and they stay with you. Problem solved.
A pickle she put herself in and is 100% responsible for. Actions have consequences. Imagine that. You stay strong and firm on your boundaries. If she can't afford to take the kids on her own then she can leave without them and they stay with you. Problem solved.
Yes thanks for saying that. I met with an attorney a couple of weeks ago and started putting together my plan. Our big problem is that with one income we will be financially devastated from a divorce.
This morning I woke up early and took a walk in the neighborhood. It is a brilliant, sunny day here. I'm feeling strong. I wish every day could feel like this because I know the are dark ones coming that I will need to stay strong during.
Our big problem is that with one income we will be financially devastated from a divorce.
resolut,
This is when the fun begins. You'll need to do a little shopping. Get a nice cutlery set with some big knives. Go to Home Depot or Lowe's and get come large contractors garbage bags, a large tarp, and some painter's rags.
Go home and create a letter from a fictitious insurance salesman/saleswoman thanking you for the recent purchase of a term life insurance policy for your wife valued at $2 million. Put the new cutlery set on the kitchen counter. Leave the tarp, rags and garbage bags in the garage (in plain sight). Put the thank you note somewhere that she'll find it, but not out in the open.
Once everything is all set, sit back and have some fun with it. These opportunities don't come around often.
@doodler - your post is very ironic in my situation. I thought I was in a long-term, committed relationship with my wife for 25 years and as such I made certain financial decisions for myself, her, the children. None of those decisions involved divorcing at this point and having to split my income for two households.
Its kind of like the question someone asked in another thread about whether or not you would date someone that you knew would betray you much, much later. Well, here I am 25 years into a marriage after working endlessly to provide for my family, take risks, burn the midnight oil, occasionally miss events with the kids for work, etc, etc, and I've been betrayed. Would I do it all again? Yes I would for my kids one thousand times over. The harder question is in forgiveness of the WW. Can I forgive? Was it all for nothing for her? I'm struggling deeply right now in all of these long-term decisions and things that have played out over 25 years and just changed in so little time when her AP showed up and the PA took off like wildfire.
What burns so badly is her attitude of feeling 'entitled' to everything.
resolut,
There's a quirky romantic comedy titled "About Time." It's an ok movie, but the underlying philosophy is really good (in doodler's opinion). All we have is the life that we've got, so we have to make the best of it regardless of what comes our way. I think that's easy to do, but we spend so much time fighting it rather than going with the flow.
I would say that I didn't go out of my way to avoid conflicts in the past but sometimes. I took my share of verbal beatings from her for sure.
The way I am reading that statement is she was verbally
mean, maybe said nasty things about you. If a W treats her H in this manner.....she is disrespecting him. The louder and uglier her words, the worse her disrespect runs (IMHO). For either spouse to verbally beat up the other one.....it's abuse and it cuts deeply. If you shouted at her or called her names, etc.....then you were guilty of doing the same thing. If you said nothing, or just walked away......I doubt it gained much respect from her, but it may have temporarily stopped an argument.
Disrespect is one of the
major issues with a wayward wife. If the H takes verbal abuse, or any other outward signs of her disrespect.....he is helping to dig the marital grave deeper. Once the WW's respect for her H is gone, her loving feelings go with it. He cannot get her respect by showing signs of weakness (or rather, what
she sees as being weak in him). Women are attracted to men who demonstrate (inner) strength and who command respect. A muscled up guy is only physically attractive, but we gals need a man who has more than just physical strength. At least, stronger than
we are...and we will test him to check that strength and see if he'll stand up to us.
In my WW days, my H could work all day at cleaning house, cooking, etc.....but I didn't respect him, so I did not feel full appreciation for his acts of service. A WW has so much resentment toward her H (usually about things in the past) that it pretty much overrides everything else. That's why it bothers me when I read where LBH's are doing stuff trying to appease their WW and keep her off his back.....however, the more he tries to do
for her, the more disrespect she seems to hold for him. If the tables were turned, she would not put up with it for a minute.
I think I'm trying hard on rules 19 and 21.
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. (I don't want to sound as if I am contradicting that statement, however, these are simply bullet points and not a lot of explanation. As the faithful spouse, you do not have to act as if you are thrilled with the wayward spouse's decisions and/or behavior. It means you should show an inner happiness, peacefulness, and confidence that says you will be just fine....with or without her. Instead of showing what you might be feeling emotionally, you present yourself as being in control of your emotions. Instead of falling apart in front of the WW and kids, you present yourself as having calmness, steadiness, balance, firmness, and consistency. You are going forward and enjoying life, with or without your WW. You are not wringing your hands, showing a sad face, crying, begging, threatening, or showing fear of your wayward spouse). This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. (The WW usually expects to see her H crushed at losing her. In fact, they often whine if they think the H acts too happy. :/) Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. (How do you show a wayward wife a man she would want to be around all the time, especially if she doesn't respect you? How are you attractive and fun?) That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
#19 could be misunderstood by eager LBH's who are desperate to save his M, and think he is suppose to be a "yes dear" kind of H, who jumps through rings of fire to impress the W. Actually, the fastest way to say it is to be the man you were before marriage....or become better. Be your own man! Men's ideas of what a wife wants in a H is usually so out of line with what really attracts her, that he reads #19 as some excuse to be her puppet, her free employee, and her entertainer.
21. Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
When you lose your cool, you give away your power. A WW will try to pull the H into a relationship talk or an argument by pushing his buttons. However, he should remain in control of himself and not argue with her (it takes two people to argue), and yes.....walk away, rather than fight. Just don't walk away out of fear. Let me add something else. If a boundary about verbal assault has not been established, it is absolutely necessary. The H should not wait until she begins an argument to state his boundary. When things are calm, he should state his boundary about verbal abuse (especially when it's around the kids). Then the next time she starts......he enforces the boundary by some action.
And example: The family is having dinner at a restaurant. The WW begins speaking disrespectfully to her H, arguing, etc. The H gets the kids and leaves his WW sitting at the table
alone, while he takes the kids to have dinner somewhere else. The only thing he says to his WW is, "I will not tolerate disrespect in front of others". He leaves and she has to get home the best way she can.
Another example: The family is watching TV and she begins to hammer her H in front of the children. He immediately says, "Come on kids, we're going out", and he leaves her home alone while taking the kids for ice cream, or whatever, and he does not respond to her calls/texting or tell her where they are going....except to say "out".
Of course, you could do like a former member, who had a W slamming cabinet doors and told her if she continued he would prepare to take steps in separating or filing for D. (A bit tough for slamming doors, but I suppose he'd had enough of it.
My examples may not be the best, but they are only examples to give you an idea how a boundary is enforced. You can't enforce boundaries by
talking. There has to be some sort of
action if they are not honored.
@Sandi2
There was so much in your response that I am taking in, but I want to focus on what you wrote here.
Disrespect is one of the major issues with a wayward wife. If the H takes verbal abuse, or any other outward signs of her disrespect.....he is helping to dig the marital grave deeper. Once the WW's respect for her H is gone, her loving feelings go with it. He cannot get her respect by showing signs of weakness (or rather, what she sees as being weak in him). Women are attracted to men who demonstrate (inner) strength and who command respect. A muscled up guy is only physically attractive, but we gals need a man who has more than just physical strength. At least, stronger than we are...and we will test him to check that strength and see if he'll stand up to us.
I really feel this that I have lost my place of power and respect of my wife in the marriage since the PA was outed. I think one shift back in my favor was when she left the MBR. Another shift would be to have her move out but we're not to that point yet. I REALLY don't want to be seen by her as weak because I am not. There are obvious times when I have totally slipped up and reached for her for a hug or a loving touch that are both so unwanted. I'm sure she sees me as weak at those times. They are happening far less frequently than at the beginning but I am human. They're happening less frequently because I am falling out of love with her and that tractor beam of attraction is almost gone.
It would be good to have some help on some specific 180's that I can use to not be perceived as weak. I think that my wife very much values inner strength within a man. I had/have this but as the years went by and we became so familiar with each other and just attached spouses, that inner strength may have been difficult to see. She went out and saw that in her AP. Maybe this just surfaces naturally from being active in GAL tactics?
And yes she carries a tremendous amount of hurt and resentment from the past. These are the things she pulls out of thin air when we get into a heated discussion. I get blind-sided when she hits me with these things in a discussion and I totally lose my focus because they are unexpected, mean and hurtful. I have a lot of difficulty handling these situations and they derail our conversations that might otherwise be productive.
The man I was before the marriage was 20 years old! That person was so carefree and full of youth. How can I be that now? Again its more about discovering who I am now without her at 46 through GAL.
A quick update on my circumstances. My wife is still miles away from me in her A. There are plenty of signs of her putting more and more distance between us.
I'm doing OK with the DB'ing attitude. I had my first session with my coach last week that was helpful.
The main thing I am processing is what it is like to fall out of love with someone. This is definitely something I have never experienced since I've loved only one woman for 28 years. I've lost that sense of attraction and need for her. She's still living here and I'm just treating her like a friend that is staying as a house guest. I'm still determined to stay in this place for now as I see no rush to bring on the D while she's in an active A. See above.
I'm focusing on me and taking running fairly seriously, working on my pace and distance and hoping to run some 5k's this summer. It should be a good way to reach out and make some new friends. If the D ever happens it is going to be so uncomfortable from a friends standpoint because most of my friends are married couples.
But anyway, as time goes on I feel the DB'ing gets a little easier and I'm still on the lookout for more 180's.
The man I was before the marriage was 20 years old! That person was so carefree and full of youth. How can I be that now? Again its more about discovering who I am now without her at 46 through GAL.
I'm not referring to the attributes that come with youth. What was your attitude in relationships with others? Did you let others bully you, or pick on you? Were you a leader or follower? How did you handle yourself as a man? What did you do if a girl mistreated you or cheated on you? If you had the NGS, then you probably apologized to the girl without knowing what you were apologizing for....b/c it's all you knew to do in order to keep the girl. Know what I mean? You say you have inner strength, so that is what she needs to see.
She's still living here and I'm just treating her like a friend that is staying as a house guest. I'm still determined to stay in this place for now as I see no rush to bring on the D while she's in an active A.
What if the affair continues for a couple of years, or longer? Will you still see no rush? If you won't stand up to her while in an active A, when will you?
I'm really not trying to get you to file for a D. I'm just saying that she will not see your strength while you quietly sit back and allow her to benefit from being M to you...and having an affair, too.
It would be good to have some help on some specific 180's that I can use to not be perceived as weak. I think that my wife very much values inner strength within a man.
There is another word to describe inner strength........"confidence". Women love to see a self-confident male. Not one who is stuck on himself or acts like a jerk to show off to everyone else, but mature confidence is very attractive.
If you won't do anything else, then please drop the rope. Don't treat her like a house guest........treat her like a
tenant.
We have to entertain a guest, and play nice.
Are you familiar with the term "drop the rope"? You let her go. You stop emotionally depending on her for your happiness, and stop acting co-dependent. Start acting more independent and start enjoying a life apart from her. This is the best time to do the things you stopped doing or put off b/c it wasn't something she enjoyed.
I'm doing OK with the DB'ing attitude. I had my first session with my coach last week that was helpful.
But anyway, as time goes on I feel the DB'ing gets a little easier and I'm still on the lookout for more 180's.
Hello resolut,
I'm glad you had your first session with your DB Coach and that it was helpful!
Running sounds like an excellent GAL. Keep it up!
Please call me at 303-444-7004 when you would like to follow up with your DB Coach.
Cristy
Hi Sandi2 - thanks for your responses.
What if the affair continues for a couple of years, or longer? Will you still see no rush? If you won't stand up to her while in an active A, when will you?
I'm really not trying to get you to file for a D. I'm just saying that she will not see your strength while you quietly sit back and allow her to benefit from being M to you...and having an affair, too.
I am mostly waiting until the end of the school year to get starting on the D, telling the kids, etc. We're close enough now.
I'm on the tipping point of not believing the marriage can be saved.
And yes I get it about dropping the rope. It is one of those things that is easier said than done. I'm doing this piece-by-piece. It is hard to unwind 25+ years of devotion to a spouse even in the face of such bitter betrayal. I can see though it is what she deserves now.
I'm feeling good though. I seem to be over a lot of the grief at the moment. I know it will return when we're in the process of telling the kids, filing the D and moving her out but I'm resting on a plateau right now.
And yes I get it about dropping the rope. It is one of those things that is easier said than done. I'm doing this piece-by-piece. It is hard to unwind 25+ years of devotion to a spouse even in the face of such bitter betrayal. I can see though it is what she deserves now.
Do you really? It doesn't mean you try to force yourself to stop loving her. It means you let go of her. In order to do so, it requires you to cut your codepency on her. You stop trying to control the situation with her. You do not have to divorce in order to emotionally drop the rope. You focus on making a life for yourself.
Funny things about wives, they can tell when you are "gone". Dropping the rope can be effective.
Right now I recognize it as a process for me. I've seen the impact on my wife from certain 180's that have had an impact on her. I'm continuing to drop it inch-by-inch.
Thanks for the message Sandi2. Keep challenging me because I do need people that are willing to hit me with a 2x4.
Just a quick update from me. Last night I snapped a bit and confronted her about how she continues to text her AP around me and the kids. Its not going to be easy but I'm going to have to start taking steps to enforce that boundary. Leaving, taking the kids away, etc. I'd be very interested to hear what others do about trying to enforce that boundary. The whole texting to the AP is one of the hardest boundaries to enforce because it is so annoying to monitor and creates such bad energy. I need help here.
I also reinforced the boundary that the AP can never come to our house or see our kids. Duh. She seemed to not really comprehend this one. She acted as if I don't understand her relationship. I don't really know and don't care what she's feeling.
Other than that I'm staying strong for the most part. Time with my kids is worth more to me than gold. I'm getting a lot of time with them bc my wife is so distant physically and mentally. I'm thankful for that bc I know after the D comes I won't have them with me every single day.
Resolut - Hi
My W continued her affair after I found out and stated she wanted a relationship with affair partner, I was to soft for a couple of weeks, but you have to workout you can't nice her back, you need to be a nice face b*****d.
I told my W I was no longer sharing the MBR, you find somewhere else to sleep. I also let her be responsible for her finances and told her I expected 50% running costs for house etc. I then put the house up for sale and sold it! All within 6 weeks of the A being discovered.
Yes, for 2-3 weeks it pushed her toward her AP, but in the end the cold light of day the consequences hit home. She had lost everything and her AP realised he would be land with a her and 3 children. Poof all the magic and rainbows disappeared.
If you let her eat cake she will, have strong healthy boundaries, sending you strength and a big hug!
Remember you have to be willing to lose your M, to win it back!
Resolut - Hi
If you let her eat cake she will, have strong healthy boundaries, sending you strength and a big hug!
Remember you have to be willing to lose your M, to win it back!
blueboy - thank you for the encouragement. I'm definitely headed in the direction of the steps that you took. I'm just waiting until the end of the school year which is just a few weeks away. We're going to have to tell the children and I want to do it at that time.
I'm just waiting until the end of the school year which is just a few weeks away. We're going to have to tell the children and I want to do it at that time.
Hello resolut,
Michele has an excellent article regarding how to tell the kids. I'm happy to send you the link at no charge, of course.
Please email me if you would like the link to Michele's article.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
I need advice.
This morning I asked my wife if she could set aside some time this week to start talking about our D. Setting up a timeline, finding a mediator, etc. I was doing this so as to be respectful and not catch her off guard. Her response was "You're in a hurry."
I was floored but then recovered enough to realize that was the response of a cake eater.
I guess my question is when we do have the conversation do I confront that atitude. After all, I am giving her what she wants, a D. Or, do I just keep going with the DB'ing and ignore whatever attitude she gives me? My guess is I shouldn't even try to confront her attitude since it would be a waste of time. She needs to be broken by realizing the fact her A is about to be exposed and she's about to lose everything.
Am I on the right track. Help.
I wouldn't even address the attitude as long as your still db'ing. If your ready to move on from this point whether it's the BD or reconciliation. That should determine your next move. You mentioned that she was a cake eater, so that right there means that it's time for her make real decision. If your good with possibly her choosing a BD, then go with it if your ready to move on. But if your not ready for that, then take your time. Perhaps time will help her realize that she wants the MR over the OM. Have the feeling I'll have to make the same choices with my W in the next few months.
That's pretty much my thinking. I left the next move with her though. She's supposed to tell me a time this week when she's ready to discuss. I think its more than likely Friday will roll around and she won't mention it.
And yes I need to do more thinking about how long I can wait in this.
Resolut,
I can see my MR going in the same direction as yours. Right now I feel as if my W and I are friends with benefits. If you could take a look at my thread and give any advice it would be appreciated. Though my why has gone solely to an EA due to the distance of the OM.
I can only speak from my experience, but if you let her control the timeframe, she will continue to eat cake, what brought my W back was the realisation that she had thrown everything away and the also force OM into realising he was getting her full time.
I think if you delay she will just keep cake eating, do you what to be in a open marriage?
Hi Resolut, Just sending you some positive waves. I was separated physically for almost a year and i had to be to push the discussion through. One excuses after another like "this weeks not good" then "oh i have a work trip coming up" then "oh taking kids out of town".
It was frustrating but in the end i had to call her out on it.
Thanks everyone for the encouragement. Again I just have to say this is all so hard to take after you trust someone for 25 years. When I got the ILYBINILWY speech a couple of months ago, she was the one talking about divorce and I was just devastated and surprised since it was so out of the blue. Its so hard to comprehend that now that I'm at the point of being ready to divorce, she goes silent and avoids the whole thing. I'm going to wait until Friday.
In the meantime, I'll catch up on everyone else's threads.
I think if you delay she will just keep cake eating, do you what to be in a open marriage?
Truth...and the three affairs...
In the meantime until Friday what are you doing? Moping around the house lamenting your troubled marriage? I'll bet your WW is not doing that. She's out living it up. People who mope around the house are not very attractive. You need to start real GAL right now. Go out and have a blast. Join a gym and start getting in shape. Be someone that other people might be attracted to and not feel sorry for.
I think if you delay she will just keep cake eating, do you what to be in a open marriage?
Truth...and the three affairs...
Three affairs? I wasn't aware of that. There's nothing to save here.
In the meantime until Friday what are you doing? Moping around the house lamenting your troubled marriage? I'll bet your WW is not doing that. She's out living it up. People who mope around the house are not very attractive. You need to start real GAL right now. Go out and have a blast. Join a gym and start getting in shape. Be someone that other people might be attracted to and not feel sorry for.
Yes I'm working out. Lost 15 pounds. Running about 15 miles a week. I am on the GAL track and not sitting around at home. And yes I get the part now about not looking for sympathy from her.
In the meantime until Friday what are you doing? Moping around the house lamenting your troubled marriage? I'll bet your WW is not doing that. She's out living it up. People who mope around the house are not very attractive. You need to start real GAL right now. Go out and have a blast. Join a gym and start getting in shape. Be someone that other people might be attracted to and not feel sorry for.
Yes I'm working out. Lost 15 pounds. Running about 15 miles a week. I am on the GAL track and not sitting around at home. And yes I get the part now about not looking for sympathy from her.
That's awesome! Stay the course with this. Actually, crank it up a notch.
I've been feeling a lot of anger for the past few days towards my W for the mess she has put us in and its not good for me.
And yes basically I have accepted that the marriage is over at this point. Like I said though on @TxHubby's thread though, I count it as a real defeat if the A continues and we get a D. I'm not a quitter and especially not one on a marriage that I've been in for over half of my life. Three affairs is devastating but I'd much rather be able to end the marriage if my wife will choose to end the A and go into MC and we can find closure. There's little change of this happening but I can try.
So I'm not going to rush things but let them happen from here.
Meanwhile, I'm joining a running club, going on a trip with my kids this summer and fixing the house up because we're going to need to sell it.
Be kind to yourself! And think of what you would tell a friend. Do you really want this person back as they are? Until they show you they are committed to you, are remorseful, and willing to do whatever it takes to repair the damage, then the answer is quite simple. NO! You do not.
So please trust me--I have come out on the other side--analyzing their every move will not bring them back, and it may push them further away. It tortures you and your self esteem also. So take the focus OFF of them and take care of the person that matters most. YOU!
I hope this is ok but I found this quote over in BuWave's thread and it is helping me so much right now. I wanted to quote it because I don't want to forget it and I want to center my life right now on myself and my kids. I can't control my WW. she has hurt me and still is hurting me. I'm getting an upgrade out of this process one way or another. She doesn't deserve me staying in this right now but I am.
Unexpectedly my W came to me today and said she wanted to discuss the D. She has not yet met with an attorney and doesn't understand the process very well or mediation. There was a lot of mistrust in her in what I was trying to convey. I told her to go meet with an attorney and get her questions answered.
Then the conversation really turned. She began to realize as a SAHM that she's going to be financially devastated if we D. She has no job or income. She began feeling very hopeless at this point. She broke down sobbing. She still is keeping a wall up about the A or any plans regarding that. Frustrating.
I didn't set an ultimatum but I did say there's a way back at this point if she goes NC and ends her affair. We can work on the MR for six months or so and re-evaluate. I'm willing to do MC if the A is ended and there's no contact.
I'm willing to move to D now if she doesn't change or in 6 months. I'm not assuming I want her back but I'm willing to try.
I didn't get an answer on that but I didn't get a no. I'm not hopeful. She's still in her fog I think.
I'm going to ease off and let this conversation sink in. Give her time to talk to an attorney. I'm going back to focusing on my life, running, praying, being with my kids and enjoying my life. I'm trying to take BluWaves advice and totally ignore what she's doing. If it's important then it will be a clear action.
I woke up this morning and went for a walk. After about a mile in I started to feel like I want to move on from my W. Like TxHubby says, the marriage is tainted and I just don't know if I can live in it even if she decides to come back. On my walk I was really just struck by how wonderful it would be to meet someone new and develop a new relationship. It is hard to imagine having someone to talk to that is interested in me for a change.
I don't know how to trust or interpret my feelings currently. This isn't how I was feeling yesterday and I know it is way too early to be thinking about dating another woman while I'm still within a marriage, even if it is to a WW.
I just can't shake the ambivalence.
It's all apart of the process as you begin to detach. The more you detach, the more you will start to think about the future in a good way.
Thanks. Then I am making some progress then myself.
My wife though is making no progress. During our discussion about D it was inevitable that the A would come up. She still puts up a wall about the A. Won't admit to it. Claims I don't understand. Am I tracking her car? I am not I tell her. What difference would it make? I know where you're going and who you are with I tell her. Etc, etc.
I just don't get it. The A is in plain site now. Its not secret and she won't admit to it or acknowledge my pain. How wayward can you get?
I feel like I need a suit of armor against the ridiculous things from our M that my wife accuses me of. When this first started I actually believed her, lost a lot of sleep, had anxiety and was very hurt. It took me a while to reflect on her accusations and realize they just aren't true. Just not humanly possible for me to have treated her like that. She's projecting on me I know.
Anyway, I just needed to write some of these things down. Looking forward to a run tonight, then a school event and then visiting my sons college this weekend.
Still struggling today. After a week or so of feeling stable myself, I'm cycling back into anger and it doesn't feel good. I like the days when I feel good about myself and I believe in there being better times ahead. I don't know what shifts.
One thing that I'm really concerned about right now is one of my older children catching on that something is wrong with my W, Her behavior is just obvious. School is almost out and I have one coming home from college. If they ask where mom is I'm just going to say I don't know. Go ask her. Text her. Its past time in our situation to tell them but of course my W has no intention of mentioning she's in an A and I have no intention of protecting her.
Sort of out of the blue my W took a step back towards the R tonight. She apologized for the pain she's caused me. We also talked a little about the R. There was physical touch that hasn't taken place in months. She's still confused and in her fog but I can see a change. I'm guarding myself though as I want to see actions from her.
I'm going to keep on with what I'm doing. Focusing on me and my life and happiness. I'm going to be kind and validating. I'm also going to be giving her more compliments here and there. I'm trying to evaluate what's not working and to try new 180s when I see them.
Sort of out of the blue my W took a step back towards the R tonight. She apologized for the pain she's caused me. We also talked a little about the R. There was physical touch that hasn't taken place in months. She's still confused and in her fog but I can see a change. I'm guarding myself though as I want to see actions from her.
Somehow i dont believe you resolut and im saying this in the kindest way. Was there once, told myself the same things and still made the same mistakes.
I'm going to keep on with what I'm doing. Focusing on me and my life and happiness. I'm going to be kind and validating. I'm also going to be giving her more compliments here and there. I'm trying to evaluate what's not working and to try new 180s when I see them.
i think you are confusing validating with being a nice guy, you know the kind that gets trampled on. Suggest you re-read the LBS with WW again. Again i did the same things buddy, it [censored] but it takes awhile to get into the validate and detach groove.
i think you are confusing validating with being a nice guy, you know the kind that gets trampled on. Suggest you re-read the LBS with WW again. Again i did the same things buddy, it [censored] but it takes awhile to get into the validate and detach groove.
Natus, thanks. I will reread that and yes I'm probably being too much of a nice guy. I have been reading Blu's thread, etc. but I don't think I identify completely with the Nice Guy syndrome. I don't feel a need to be a people pleaser but that's over simplifying the whole thing I realize.
Also, you're probably right about there being no change. As the LBS its nearly impossible not to interpret everything even after knowing to guard against that. We're desperate for even the smallest glimmer of hope. Maybe I can take it as I need to detach more so that I'm not fooled into this situation again.
My weekend was about as good as it could get until after dinner on Sunday. Something about Mother's Day or birthdays can bring out an ugly and resentful side of my W. It is as if her expectations are incredibly high for these occasions and when her expectations aren't met 110% then everything and everyone is a failure. I failed to validate (from her standpoint) something much earlier in our marriage that came up and this brought a wave of resentment. Before that we had spent the weekend co-parenting through lots of activities with the kids and I was really enjoying myself. IT was a relief just to go to bed in separate bedrooms.
This morning I'm doing my best to pick up and move on from that.
I guess i'll leave you with a little something. Im at the point where i dont see her except for logistics around S and finances. Small talk here and there but infrequent. Anyhow i am 2 weeks away from Divorce and i just caught her (after many months) trying to peek into my life. This is from a woman that has reiterated many times she doesnt love me, or will love me again.
At this stage its just a mere observation for me, i literally dont care to figure out what she wants.
Hi Natus, thanks for that. You're much farther ahead of me in your journey. I respect how far you've been able to detach.
I'm reading a lot of other threads about the WS verbally abusing the LBS of being at fault for a terrible marriage. It helps to know this is common behavior. I know in my head that the marriage wasn't all terrible. She's justifying her terrible betrayal.
Tonight my W was very depressed and downcast. I asked if she wanted to talk about but didn't get much of a reply. At least something is happening inside of her.
For me I went on a 2 mile walk this morning then ran 3 miles at lunch and lifted. I'm feeling good and the weather here is spectacular. I've been back into photography too. Also spending a lot of time with my youngest daughter.
Need more 180s though.
For me I went on a 2 mile walk this morning then ran 3 miles at lunch and lifted. I'm feeling good and the weather here is spectacular. I've been back into photography too. Also spending a lot of time with my youngest daughter.
Need more 180s though.
You are doing them. Just keep going and have more moments where you are feeling good. There will be days that you wont feel so good and moments that can feel really bad. You will ride through them.
Well after 4 months of the A and being cavalier about it, my W broke down out of the blue yesterday sobbing. She told me she doesn't know what to do. Seems like she's afraid of being rejected by everyone if/when she is found out. Basically she's just hopeless. I didn't do much but listen and validate just a little. I mostly tried to follow the rule of if in doubt of what to say then say nothing. All I could say was she needs to go NC and that could be the start of seeing if we still have a chance.
Today is brutal hard for me though as now a crack has formed in her wall. All of my attraction to her has flooded back in. Clearly I need to keep on keeping on because whatever I had been doing was working. She's still a long way gone and there's a long way to go and I'm not getting my hopes up.
Anyone else who has been at this stage please hit me with advice.
Crack or not is the A still going on? She could be back with OM tomorrow for all you know.
I wouldn't jump back in unless she did the work for like months and i mean months.
A is still going on but may have cooled. She's making small steps right now towards me that are out of character. She's been so cavalier for 4 months.
I'm a total mess. I think I have to get away from her. Something inside of me just wants to ask her to have sex with me so I Can feel the rejection. Ugh this is awful. Feelings I had just after the BD are resurfacing and I thought I was past this.
So hard. Just remember, what you've been doing seem to be starting to pay off. Keep doing it. Stay strong.
I've recovered a bit in the past day. I can only accomplish things by going to God in prayer right now and staying constant in Him.
My W told me today that she's seeing an IC on Saturday. I could not be happier. After all the hardness and selfishness she's shown for four months, she's going to talk to someone. I'm guarding myself but at least she will be able to process things. She's still in contact with OM but I'm doing my best to ignore and not obsess over the A.
Journaling is helping me and taking meaningful photographs each day to remember and reflect. I've been doing some yard work and working on improving my running pace. I still have more work to do with GAL. Going camping this weekend with D10.
Well my W ended up not going to IC due to some sort of scheduling issue. I'm concerned now that she won't reschedule. Its a lesson to me to be guarded against any forms of hope.
W had to come back to the MBR as now kids are home from college. What a strange feeling to have her come back when I know she doesn't want to be in there. Trying to persuade her it will be better for her to go sleep at a friends.
Otherwise, I'm still running 6 days a week and journaling. Need to keep looking for more ways to change things that aren't working.
Today was a tough day. We're having quite a few expenses lately. My wife is a SAHM, no job. I suggested that she start looking for a job to which she is agreeing. So far so good on this. But then she let on that if she were to get a job she would save that money to use post D. I really lost it from there. I informed her how disrespectful that was as Im the one currently providing. A marriage is a collaborative thing. So sickening for her to think she could just get a job and save up money. Why am I doing this? I'm venting. I went out and ran 3 miles after that conversation.
I did set a new boundary and she's getting her own cell phone plan, off of mine. She'll need a job to pay for that.
This was just one of those conversations that was ugly but I had to get the point across as to how disrespectful she is behaving to me and the M.
I've been reading other threads and reflecting on my situation. I'm not noticing any small changes in my W and she never shows any interest in my GALing. I'm not going to interpret it and I'm not going to be deterred. If anything I mostly think she's miles and miles away from the MR and its most likely going to fail. My focus is on me only. However I come out of this I want to enjoy being me and enjoy being with my children every second that I have.
I've told her she needs to go stay at a friends house and we'll see where that goes. Not sure how much time I should give her with the cell phone boundary or finding a job.
Tomorrow my wife starts IC. I'm happy about that.
I'm still looking for more things that can get me out of the house. I have a few ideas but its going to take time to get started. I've been a little low on joy for the past few days.
Running has been my constant thing. I'm signing up for a 5k next month and another in July.
You are probably right in that she is miles and miles away from the MR.
Pity you had to blow up but sometimes it is what it is. Shes eating the cake and taking your share then expects you to go out and buy more. Who would not get fed up with that.
You have stated your boundary (well at least 1 or 2 so far). My x and i both made our own money so i cant really speak to what else you can do for boundaries and limit cake eating, maybe the others can chime in.
You have stated your boundary (well at least 1 or 2 so far). My x and i both made our own money so i cant really speak to what else you can do for boundaries and limit cake eating, maybe the others can chime in.
Thanks Natus. I need all the encouragement I can get right now. PEW's situation seems to be close to mine although his wife has been making positive steps it sounds like.
With my kids back from college there are no spare rooms left. Its like I live in a boarding houses. lol. I'm really struggling with my W being back in the MBR. I sway from being grossed out to be attracted back to her. It really messes with my head and my heart. I told her this morning she needs to go sleep at a friends house. She agreed. Then she came back and apologized sincerely for the pain she's caused me. I accepted it but that really just opened my wounds and I didn't handle the rest of the conversation in a DB or validating way. She said so this is what I get for apologizing? All I could say is well there is a lot of pain here as you can see.
Anyway, she continues to bring up pain I caused in the first 25 years of the M i.i.e before BD day. I know this is the mind of the WW talking here but it happens over and over when we get into discussions about the M. I am trying something new. I told her that until she can forgive me, she's never going to heal. I've acknowledged how i've mistreated. I've asked God for forgiveness and I've been forgiven completely. I am moving on into the future of making myself a better person. I told her she's going to live with resentment for me until she can learn to forgive. I don't deserve her contempt. I deserve grace from her.
That sums it up from now but I'm looking to learn to ways to practice DB with a SAHM that can't separate from me and gives me no signs that she wants to move back into the MR. 0 signs.
I'm having a slow day so I've been reading through a few threads. It seems like a number of threads that I've read of WW's, that the W comes back and does a temperature check or makes positive moves back to the LBH.
In my situation this is just not happening. I'm ok with that but I could use some help of someone pointing me at other stories on here where the WW took 0 steps back into the R when the LBH was practicing DB.
I may be the best DBer and it may be that my W is just done and checked out of the M for good. This is where I think she is.
Resolut, are you posting on other threads so people will find you? That's a good way to get other people to your thread.
Resolut,
Keep following the steps you have been. But carefully review what you have done this far and adjust accordingly. And continue to be patient. Trust me your W has noticed the changes, she is wondering if this is permanent or if you are worth staying with. I think an advantage you habe is that you are the one who is working.
So start by cutting off that phone. If she wants a phone, let OM foot the bill. Don't cut her off from the money, but she shouldn't have money to do anything extra for fun. She needs to know that everything about you is better. And what I've found in regards to my own W they forget the things that you actually have done for them. So a reminder is what you need to do through subtle actions, not words.
Resolut, are you posting on other threads so people will find you? That's a good way to get other people to your thread.
Yes I have on a few. PEW's situation is similar to mine. He's doing well IMO. Thanks!
Resolut,
Keep following the steps you have been. But carefully review what you have done this far and adjust accordingly. And continue to be patient. Trust me your W has noticed the changes, she is wondering if this is permanent or if you are worth staying with. I think an advantage you habe is that you are the one who is working.
So start by cutting off that phone. If she wants a phone, let OM foot the bill. Don't cut her off from the money, but she shouldn't have money to do anything extra for fun. She needs to know that everything about you is better. And what I've found in regards to my own W they forget the things that you actually have done for them. So a reminder is what you need to do through subtle actions, not words.
I had the conversation with her about getting her off my phone plan on Tuesday. She hasn't taken any actions yet. Any advice on how long to let this go?
I agree cutting off money would be cruel and would escalate things. She seemed to understand that the phone use was disrespectful. She's respecting my disrespect.
I've had an OK weekend, fairly detached from my W.
I did bring up the cell phone plan again this afternoon and she admitted she hasn't done anything about getting her own plan. I will follow up again in a few days but this is excruciating b/c I know she's not going to do anything. I did tell her just to have the OM pay for it and then I walked away.
I feel as if I'm stuck deep in rule #24 right now.
24. Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
I am pulling way back and trying to be patient. This is so hard to do with 3 kids at home right now and living in the same house and forced to be in MBR with W.
The question that keeps coming back to me is how will I know when I'm just done?
you know the "rules" are not rules. They are guidelines Sandi assembled based on the DB principles.
They are not ALL applicable, and only some apply to some of the situations here. These are and certainly not to be rigidly applied.
Do what works, and what saves your self respect, and sanity. If you monitor for results and see none, then change the approach. Standing does not mean "waiting" or standing still.
Detach, keep your temper and be the best dad you can be. Your kids need you more now than ever.
Hang in there