Hello All,
I've been viewing these threads for about three weeks now ever since the proverbial bomb dropping.
I have not read the DB or DR books because I'm not sure which direction I'm taking. I've read 100's of threads in both the New Comers and the Infidelity sections, but haven't been able to identify because of my particular sitch (I think) is so different. Coming here has helped me tremendously with how I've dealt with it in the short term. My feelings, as much as it hurts at the moment (I feel like I'm dying inside and theres a huge hole in my soul), I have to think about my happiness moving forward even if it's without my W, so I don't know if I want to face the uphill battle of reconciliation or just move on alone. My school of thought has always been to keep my family together and safe, but now seeing things differently.
This is a very long story, spanning close to 20 yrs. It's hard to tell it short.
Let me start by saying, I love my W very much....My 20 yr anniversary is next month and my W and I have 2 fantastic kids D16 soon to 17 and S14. I met my W in early 90's and dated for 3 yrs and then we married. We both had great careers, both in the financial industry and agreed that she would stay home when we had children. Just a background of our financials, after my D16 was born and my W stayed home my career took off and I did exceptionally well for the first 10yrs +- of our marriage. We were able to do what ever we wanted and wanted from nothing, big houses, nice cars, trips, ect. Like many, we were overcome by the economic downturn in 2008. Although I dont make as much as I did, we were able to scale back and still support our basics needs without loosing anything, but it was harder to maintain and it stressful trying to manage it. I wound up loosing my primary business in 2009. I started a second business in the late 1990's in advertising and my W and I run it supports us now.
OK, now the sitch.... early in our marriage, when my wife was still working this OM just popped out of no where. He was one of the higher ups in her company., (my wife's dept. supported his and they didn't work directly together) but I never heard her mention him before. It started out like they were just colleagues. In fact, I was introduced to him and I was in a couple of social setting along with his W. I felt something was up, but it was defiantly much to early to tell. Then one day out of the blue, my W called me and told me that she was on her way to get new tires and the OM knew a mechanic by him and that get her a good deal. I didn't think her car needed tires??? and then I got a call again that they went for ice cream afterwords. My back hairs went up, it was a little weird, she got the tires, she didn't get home late and she was totally upfront with me telling me where and who she was with. Again, being newlyweds and trying to be trusting I let it go, but it still made a mark on my conscience.
The OM was older (18yrs older than my wife) married, wealthy and had an apartment in the city, a beach house etc., etc. He was gray, about 50lbs over weight. I guess being a guy, I thought how could anyone be attracted to him.
My W and her former colleagues (6 or 7 of them, a mixture of both male and female, OM included) would always get together and go out in the city or plan a trip to the OM beach house or fishing trips, etc., etc.. They would manage to get together about once a month, sometimes more and sometimes less, it would vary over the years. I still had this feeling that something was going on, I would question her said I didn't like it and it wasn't appropriate, she made me feel like I was crazy and they were just friends. Plus, these get togethers were sporadic and I was still trusting. It was during this time I noticed that my W and I were progressively starting to fight more and our intimacy was starting to fade and we were drifted apart. At that point I thought it was only a EA and I didn't understand that an EA is just as bad as a PA. I started to give her a bunch of crap and it really started to effect the way I felt toward her. Ultimatums would fly, she would defend and I would be confused and convinced it was in my head. Sometimes she would let up, say she wouldn't plan trips with the "group" to the beach house, but ultimately she would defend it and say that they were ALL her friends and she wasn't going to let that go. Still thinking she's right and It's me the crazy one.
Throughout the years I found out that he came to my house when I was at work, they would talk for hours on the phone and were always emailing. Me, I was trying not to question because it was me that was crazy...... Around year 8 in our marriage, we were fighting a lot etc. very little sex or intimacy, I told her that this weight (OM) plagued our marriage and prevented us from being close. I was done... I made an apt. with an L. She pleaded with me and I gave in. Again, still thinking its me I don't have full proof and I'm crazy.
Over the years it really messed with my head and I wanted to prove to myself that it can't be me, so in 2010 I installed spyware on her computer and monitored her for 6 months. They did have some inappropriate emails, but they weren't anything you wouldn't say to a friend. I felt like sh@t spying. During that time I got the OM's number from my wife's phone and called him and left a VM, he didn't return it. then I texted him and told him that he'd better stay away from my W or he was going to have a problem. He did reply to my text with one word "done".
After the 6 months of spying, I couldn't take it anymore. I don't know what triggered it, but I told her. The sh@t hit the fan! She was so pissed and frankly so was I. I went to a hotel we exchanged very hurtful emails. She told me "good riddance" and emailed all her contacts that I was spying on her. I felt guilty of corse and came back apologetic still thinking more than ever it was me. soon after the W and I decided it would be best to go to a MC. We went for a few months before we decided to quit. We/I had one take away.... when the subject of the OM came up it was my W kept defending it was a friendship and that he was part of the "group" and I was preventing her from hanging with them and that I should get over it. Then the advise from the MC...... W would be upfront with me on dates and conversations she was having with the "group" that include the OM and I had to back off.... Looking back she got exactly what she wanted and I took the advise of the MC. It was then that we stoped going.
She/they continued to have their "group" get togethers both my W and I became biz partners/roommates no sex, no intimacy. If we discussed our marriage sitch together, it was contentious and I was at fault. By this time I had completely withdrew, but always thinking that it could of been me that was crazy...
Fast foreward early 2017, W and I are getting along, I'm getting the crazy thoughts out of my head. We went close to a year not having sex. It was difficult, but I made the move. We got closer , more intimacy and sex. It was great! I thought yeah it was me and maybe now I can get past it... W and I were on the right track....
Mid Feb, my W tells the fam that she is taking a trip down to our place in FLin March. Didn't really think to much about except we were all going down in April. Plus, my mom lives in the same development. So she books the flight for mid week first week in March goes down, shops for necessities for our place, spends time with my mom etc.. Friday early evening I called her no answer..... A couple of hours I called again, still no answer.... she text me back saying she's just got a massage and she's in a store. My W alway calls me back, that night radio silence... I'm a little PO'd, started to get those gut feelings. The next day she calls my kids and they put her on speaker. I didn't say anything (cause I'm still PO'd) her voice was different, more reserved... She calls my cell about 4 hrs later. I'm gulping all down trying to act like everything is OK, but she still has that reserved tone in her voice. She tells me that she's at the beach and I ask her what beach?..... she tells me that she's at a beach that's an hour away from our place, that she went to the store to get something and on her way that she went to buy something and she took a wrong turn and wound up there. I know my W and she's very smart, she would never do that. At that moment I knew she met him... I was devastated.
She returned back Sunday early evening I made a nice dinner with the kids and we went to bed. Although very difficult it was very hard to contain myself. I decided to confront her the following morning. "Did you meet up with him?" Presented my facts (all premonitions) but didn't tell her how I got my info. She probably thought I was spying on her again. She continued to deny and I left for the office. Later on she sent a text saying she did met up with OM, but didn't want to tell me fearing I would get mad. I texted her back saying that she wasn't totally forthcoming in her text and that in fact she spent that Friday into Saturday with him... She came home that night and admitted everything to me. Not only was this a EA but a PA as well............. About a week later I went through her emails and found a Valentines e- card form his saying "lets meet up " and flight confirms, they flew home together.
I can't even begin to describe my emotions since then. Every moment in the sitch was regurgitated... The fact is I was right all along but never wanted to be.I was PLAYED A FOOL!
I am soooooooo f@cked up over it, you have no idea! I told her that I want a divorce (for the first time in our marriage I really did). I can honestly say that this is been the worst period of my life. So many emotions are running wiled. Heart breaks, disgust, angry, you name it I got it. Every waking moment I have (haven't been sleeping) been thinking about this sitch and how I'm a trusting fool.
I raged for about a week and thankfully through the great info here I've been able to contain it. I'm still feeling my feelings but not raging. In the meantime I sent the OM's wife a very respectful letter telling her everything. Next thing I know, the OM calls me. He was so pathetic and narcissistic. He basically said that his W received the letter and as a result in a very bad way and I should not contact her. I couldn't believe it, he was telling me to stay away from his W when all along he couldn't do the same for me..... In short I told him no, I will continue to try to contact her, if she wants me not to I will respect that, but I got to hear it from her. I also told him that I better not ever see him and I hung up. His W did respond poor women. She told me that she was having a very difficult time with it, they are going to try to work it out and asked me to try as well. She thanked me for reaching out to her and asked me to please not tell anyone. I'm not sure if I can say case closed.
As for me and the W. I told her that I wanted to sell the house and split everything and that my concern now was ME getting through this and get happy. That I was willing to give so much more to a marriage but was prevented from doing so. I don't want to look back from this point and still be status quo. I told her first a separation and then an D. She told me that she did not want a D and we should work it out. What? I She said if I want to separate I can stay in the guest room.. I told her that will be her room from now on
Thank God for this site! Ive been going dark not much talking and not pursuing, trying to smile the best I can. She wrote me a card and it said.... she's been wanting to give this up for years, but couldn't and each time she felt more and more guilty and she was glad its out in the open. she thought that this was the "catalyst" and when we got through this point we could work it out. We all had some conversations. At first she was trying to justify it all with the way I was in the marriage (again, I'm the crazy one) for lacking in intimacy and kind words, but I wasn't going for it. She admitted that she was messed up from childhood with a mother that didn't perfect her. She alway pushed people away when they got to close including me. She also told me that the OM would tell her nice things and I wasn't about the sex.
Last night she crawled back in bed with me and she hugged me and said she missed sleeping next to me. So confusing!
If I'm spending the rest of my life with someone I need to be happy. Wake me up don't want to be played a fool again! Please help! Thanks
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
I have not read the DB or DR books because I'm not sure which direction I'm taking.
I've read 100's of threads in both the New Comers and the Infidelity sections, but haven't been able to identify because of my particular sitch (I think) is so different.
Sorry to tell you this but your sich is no different than 100000's I have read.
I suggest you start with a beginners mind and read DR and the links in my first post.
Keep posting here.
What would be the harm in reading the books? You can decide later on if you want to be married or not. If you make this decision now out of anger, you may regret it later and not have another chance.
Interestingly we have children almost exactly the same ages and sexes. I have been on this path a while. It is devastating to the children. Consider that before you proceed further.
I don't mean to make light of this in any way, but it sounds a lot like Lady Di and Prince Charles and how she said there were always three people in the marriage. It looks like yours has been that way as well.
I had many years of actions and red flags I ignored. One of the hardest things for me, and I suspect it will be for you, is forgiving yourself for not seeing it. For not wanting to believe. I am telling you this now and I hope you remember it. It does not meant that you are a sap or stupid. It meanst that you have a kind heart and a good soul and you projected onto your wife your own goodness and that caused you to silence that voice inside of you that said that things were not right.
Forgive yourself, read the books, work the program, live as if you are moving on, but keep the door slightly ajar until you are strong enough to make that decision. Please do it for the benefit of your children, at least for now.
I had many years of actions and red flags I ignored. One of the hardest things for me, and I suspect it will be for you, is forgiving yourself for not seeing it. For not wanting to believe. I am telling you this now and I hope you remember it. It does not meant that you are a sap or stupid. It meanst that you have a kind heart and a good soul and you projected onto your wife your own goodness and that caused you to silence that voice inside of you that said that things were not right.
Very well said. I, too, had so many red flags that I couldn't see the forest for the trees. Honestly, I wish I hadn't silenced that voice inside of me. However, it wasn't until after BD that I learned of all the abuse and how it is so woven into the very fabric of her being. Sigh. Oh well, it is what it is.
Last night she crawled back in bed with me and she hugged me and said she missed sleeping next to me. So confusing!
The one thing you've got going for you, is your W seems to be open to working on it - it's in your hands to decide if you want M or not.
In many of our cases our S has no interest in working on the M or are still in a confused state.
This is a turning point for sure in your R you can rise to the occasion and build a new Marriage with your W and your kids or decide to start all over again with someone different. Your happiness definitely comes first - so ask yourself can you be happy again (assuming changes are in store) with your W? Is there enough common foundation and shared interests there to capitalize on?
Me too, me too! I did the same thing.
I have to think about my happiness moving forward even if it's without my W, so I don't know if I want to face the uphill battle of reconciliation or just move on alone.
Sounds like you havent been happy in some time.
What are you going to do become happier?
In my opinion, the answer to that question has nothing to do with your W or whatever you decide to do about your relationship.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Thank you all for your replies and your words.
Cadet and OwnIt- I have nothing against the books. I see on these threads how well they work. Because of you guys I will wind up reading them. I just thought they were geared toward trying to work on it and at the moment I'm tired and I feel like I want to start anew.
And Cadet I will delete my history= Good advise!
Jeep74-
IKR it becomes apart of you, your being! It wasn't until the big revelation that I understood that it really wasn't me! Its like she molded me to fit the script all this time.
Not reading the books because you have an assumption of what the contents are doesn't make sense. Read DB or DR to understand the marriage dynamics.
OwnIt,
No harm at all and your right about the books. Just have ben reeling for weeks now about the direction I want to go. I see in these threads how beneficial the books are though.
It is absolutely hard looking back and saying what could I have done differently knowing what I knew. Thats what why I'm so pissed with myself.
Looking back, I see how the script was written. It was like I was manipulated to play the roll in this sitch.
Thanks so much for the supportive words and advise!!!
Mr. Bond,
I'm not against the books. I know how important they could be for my sitch. I just think I was buffalo'd all this time. Really trying to go in the correct direction. Thanks for the support, it really is appreciated.
PacLove,
Yes it appears that she wants to work it out, she doesn't want to lose me(her words). I think thats good I guess. We had a talk last night that she initiated. Says the A is over and she is going to get help. I do love her. Like in Cadet's intro response. I have to believe nothing that she says. I don't want to get sucked back into something with someone who has been lying to me for a long time just because she says so. And.... she was in the bed again last night as well. I'm very apprehensive!
LOL doodler. Were you played too?
Kaizen,
I fell into the roll and yes, the unhappiness became progressively worse as time went on.
I know that I have to come first. The problem is figuring out how to do it.
I already take care of myself physically, i.e. eat well and workout. Its my mental state because of all this. Thats the problem.
LOL doodler. Were you played too?
Absolutely! I was totally played. It's embarrassing how well I was played. I got it right at first, but then I allowed her to convince me that it was "just friends" and that I needed to deal with my jealousy issues. Fortunately, we went to an MC that kicked my @ss real good. Of course, my wife (now XW) stopped going to the MC after it became clear things weren't going according to her plans.
It all s*cked, but I grew a pair so big that I had to put wheels on them because otherwise they would drag on the ground. (I might be exaggerating just a little.)
It was like I was manipulated to play the roll in this sitch.
So what are you doing differently now? What kind of 180s are you going to do to prevent this kind of treatment?
In my mind, if shes back in the MBR with you without any clear R direction, that shes continuing to manipulate you and your boundaries.
I told her that I want a divorce (for the first time in our marriage I really did).
I told her that I wanted to sell the house and split everything and that my concern now was ME getting through this and get happy.
I told her first a separation and then an D.
I told her that will be her room from now on
If I'm spending the rest of my life with someone I need to be happy.
Continuing my last post, these are a lot of WORDS. But where are the actions to back them up?
LOL doodler. Were you played too?
Absolutely! I was totally played. It's embarrassing how well I was played. I got it right at first, but then I allowed her to convince me that it was "just friends" and that I needed to deal with my jealousy issues.
I think most of us experienced this... I know I did almost 2 years ago now. We want to give them the benefit of the doubt, after all they are our spouse someone who we are supposed to be able to trust 100%.
doodler,
Yes, funny how they manipulate the MC to fit their agenda (like my W did) and if they can't they quit. Once she got what she needed that was it, we didn't go anymore.
Kaizen,
I realized I might have jumped the gun with W being back in the MBR. We had a pleasant (lets work it out) convo in the MBR. Thinking back seems like a total manipulation and I totally fell for it hook, line and sinker.
Before that, I was doing pretty good being dark. I was pleasant and I wasn't engaging, although I was reeling inside.
Yes, thats the ULTIMATE let down in my sitch (among many). The BIG LIE!
We are supposed to share everything!
I realized I might have jumped the gun with W being back in the MBR. We had a pleasant (lets work it out) convo in the MBR. Thinking back seems like a total manipulation and I totally fell for it hook, line and sinker.
Could not have said it better myself. This is to the guys who thought she was working on things, or making progress.......... When will you learn that what this W did (crawling into bed with him) is the oldest manipulation in the history of women?! Getting in bed and snuggling up to the man you've cheated on for nearly 20 years
is not a sign she is working on things! . And it amazes me why the H is always "confused" by this action! (So, it's not just you, FindAir). This is not work on her part. It is simple temperature checking, and that's all.
She doesn't want a divorce b/c her H provides a very nice living for her? She has a nice setup where she gets the best of both men. OM isn't going to leave his W and risk his financial destruction when he is nearly ready to retire. Think about it, guys! He's 18 yrs her senior, and if he was going to D his W to marry this man's wife, he would have done it a long time ago. He knows his W will take him to the cleaners.
So, the affair partners will give it a little cooling off period, and when their spouses think everything is okay again..........the affair will resume. They have carried on this affair too many years to think it will stop dead in its tracks. It can end, but I promise you that it won't be anywhere close to being this easy. It would take major life changes for her to end all emotional ties that link them together. She would even have to cancel her list of contacts........and you know she's not going to do it. She won't want to give up their circle of friends or stop going to their favorite places. Too many years, and too many memories.
If a man feels he has been played, it's b/c he has! She will play you as long as she believes it's working. And as long as you fall for her manipulation tricks......it
will work for her.
I realize this is blunt, but I just read your thread and wanted to warn you......and now I see where you are figuring it out.
Can your M be saved? Maybe, IDK. But I'm old enough and have read enough of these same patterns to know your W is not finished with the OM and she is not "working" on your M. At least, she's not currently doing work. Another thing, she may say she'll get help, etc., but that's usually a tactic to put her H on hold until he calms down. If any therapy is sought, you need to be the one to choose the therapist, not your W. It should be one who specializes in restoring marriages that have been betrayed by a long term affair.
Nothing justifies cheating on a spouse. Not her childhood and not her bad marriage. That's not to say that she may not need therapy, but it doesn't give her a free pass to commit adultery. Too long, you've thought you were crazy........and she did not try to persuade you otherwise.
See a lawyer to know your options and where you stand. Then decide what you will do. You will need a plan of action, b/c you can't sit back and just wait to see what happens. Be prepared. Do not discuss your plans with her, at this time. You must protect yourself before doing or saying anything else.
And btw, don't decide to have unprotected sex with her, thinking you are sealing the deal. That's how men think, but it doesn't seal anything.....except maybe your fate.
Someone will come along with soothing words for you. I just could not sit back and not tell you what I have seen played out in many, many similar situations as you face. Your story is not unique, sorry to say.
sandi2,
Wow! Thank you, thank you! I needed that. What you wrote is so real. I will follow your direction. I'm regretting that move back into the MBR. My emotions are all over the place, but I'm slowly trying to take charge of them. Before the MBR move, I was doing pretty well by going dark. Trying to get the plan reformulated.
I would like your opinion.... We have a family vacation planned for next month, after the the bomb I told her I wasn't going. I'm getting pushback form my kids. I'm having a hard time with it. What do you think?
I will check back later. I work and live with the W, so its hard to be stealth. I would like any opinion on how to pull that off too with reading books and being on the threads. Can't imagine how I'm going to get a chance to read the books. Cant even get the books downloaded, W see every transaction and does the bookkeeping. Haven't needed to be secretive until now. Not easy with her being within feet of her.
Sandi is right, you know...
Wow! Thank you, thank you! I needed that. What you wrote is so real. I will follow your direction. I'm regretting that move back into the MBR. My emotions are all over the place, but I'm slowly trying to take charge of them. Before the MBR move, I was doing pretty well by going dark. Trying to get the plan reformulated.
My suggestion about the MBR is for you to stay there, and if she wants to sleep elsewhere, that's her choice. The point behind this is that you are the faithful spouse and you are the head of the family. The children recognize the MBR as being the marital bedroom for their parents. It sets an
order in the family homelife. When the kids are accustomed to seeing their parents share the same bedroom, it gives them a sense of security. Their parents sharing the same bedroom represents unity, not division. That's why even little kids will know something is not right at home when they see one of the parents sleeping elsewhere. Their instinct tells them their security may be at risk. Anyway, that's my suggestion, but you do what you feel is best for you.
I have a different viewpoint on "going dark" than the thread that is listed in Cadet's post. I think it is impossible to go dark when you share the same roof and have a family. However, you can emotionally detach to protect your feelings. I will try to remember to post a copy of a shorter version of detaching.
IMHO, you need to decide what you will do. You should not ask your W what she
wants. This is no longer about what she wants. You deserve to know what she plans to
do in going forward, b/c you have no intentions of leaving things the way they currently are.....nor act as if nothing ever occurred between her and OM. It is about what you will decide for your life. It is about what you will tolerate and not tolerate. It is about setting firm boundaries based on your moral/spiritual beliefs, standards, principles, and integrity. Never compromise your integrity. This is no longer about
pleasing her or trying to
show her how much you love her (as this becomes a trap for the LBH trying to reconcile). It is about honor, loyalty, and respect. If you both have those, then the love will manifest itself. You are the leader over your family/home. Leaders have to be strong and make tough decisions, and having something solid (like your principles and belief system in life) from which to make your plan is very important. We can help as you put it together.
I would like your opinion.... We have a family vacation planned for next month, after the the bomb I told her I wasn't going. I'm getting pushback form my kids. I'm having a hard time with it. What do you think?
That is always a very tough call. For the sake of the kids, I would carry through with the plans for vacation, since it is scheduled for next month. Use it as an opportunity to show your fun/relaxed side in your family activities. You may have to do a lot of faking, but sometime that's what we have to do for our kids.
In the meantime, you will be getting your plan of action together, and start establishing some of your boundaries.
* Priority is talking with your lawyer to make sure you are protected in every way possible.
* Make a
private list of the things in your MR that affect you emotionally/physically that you will not tolerate. The point here is not to make out a complaint list about your W's faults. This is not about some means of controlling your W.....but rather
protecting your feelings. Boundaries are not to be confused with ultimatums.
An example of a really big boundary could be: "
I will not live in a marriage of three. If you continue to contact OM, I will prepare for separation or divorce". This is about what you will not accept for
your life. You are not telling her what she can or can't do. She is free to make her own decisions. This statement is about you and what you will not accept as a way of life. I want to caution you to be very careful making boundary statements and not backing up your word if the boundary is dishonored. Several men have read this example and then start crowing like a rooster about not living in an open marriage. Well, they discovered it did not fix or change the W. The affair did not stop. Then the H would back down and his boundary was completely ineffective. You do not want this to happen! Before you state a boundary, you better know what you intend to do if it is not honored. I can almost guarantee you that she will test it to see if you stand behind it.
Another example: "I will not engage in a telephone conversation if I am the target of yelling, cursing, rage, etc. If such behavior begins, I will disconnect the call and not respond to caller's next contact, until I feel the conversation will be civilized". That one is not too difficult to carry out, unless you are so beaten down by your W you are too afraid to hang up on her and face her wrath later.
Anyway, these are just two short examples, and we can talk more about boundaries later. You are the only one who knows what you will or will not tolerate.
A major part of your plan will be setting goals that will lead you back into being a better man, father, husband, and leader. You can't force her to make changes in herself, but you can make improvements in yourself and the family life under your own roof. So, think about what needs to change, what you have control over and what you don't, and the steps to get you to the place you want to be.
Personally, I recommend you make it clear to her that in order for you to continue with the M, there must be a series of couple's therapy sessions, and you will choose the therapist who specializes in this field. Since you are the betrayed S in the M, you should be the one to pick the more qualified therapist that actually works with couples to restore M's after an affair. It's not just about "her getting help" to appease you for a while. It's about serious therapy for you as a couple.
Dealing with a situation like you are facing, requires guidance. You need some type of map in order to go forward on this journey.
About a month from now, she will have strong cravings to contact OM (if she is really in no contact currently). If she is willing to do the real work in saving this M, then go with that willingness and don't be afraid to say what you will need to feel the MR has only two people in it. If she bucks against transparency, then you can mark it down that she has secrets to hide. Sure, there are ways around transparency if she wants to maintain the affair, but the transparency is just as much help to her as it is to you. The accountability is key in her breaking her emotional connection with the OM. More about that later.
sandi2,
Last night managed to have a another R discussion about setting boundaries and guidelines. I initiated it and we were both civil. Reiterated strict zero contact rule she agreed. She had deleted the contact, but there seem to be residual emails in her inbox on some group emails on multiple devises. I spent time going through and deleting the rest as best as I could. I still think its not enough, because we have old cell phones in drawers laying around, plus the fact W probably has contact info memorized. IDK if this is right, but I even text the OM (I know he's deathly afraid of me) to do the same He replied back agreeing. I will continue to invasive with him and battle two fronts if I have to.
I have my first appointment with a IC today. W is researching her own and is going on her own accord. She is in contact with one but does not have an appointment set up as of yet. I haven't pushed it with her this is her own doing. I did tell her that If I decide to move forward, I will request to see a MC together. I will choose one like you advised.
We talked about sex, I said I'm not doing it until she is tested and as a result I have to get tested too (protection or not). She was a little taken back. She said that she recently had surgery (this was after she admitted everything) and received a pap smear and the results were negative. I didn't fall for it.
I plan to take your advise and consult an L next week. I've already researched and have gotten recommendations.
I'm still waffling on fam vacation, although I'm leaning more towards it then not.
sandi2 I have to tell you..... You seem to put in a lot and effort and time with me on this and I see you do across multiple threads. That is unbelievable to me and I am truly grateful. And... there are others here that do the same, you are all fantastic!
She had deleted the contact
You realize that means nothing, right? Mine did the same thing.
but there seem to be residual emails in her inbox on some group emails on multiple devises. I spent time going through and deleting the rest as best as I could
So let me get this straight, you are deleting her emails from her accounts? That's very controlling even if she said OK. Wow.
but there seem to be residual emails in her inbox on some group emails on multiple devises. I spent time going through and deleting the rest as best as I could
So let me get this straight, you are deleting her emails from her accounts? That's very controlling even if she said OK. Wow.
This struck me as odd as well. I get it that she needs to rebuild trust. An I get that she needs to go no contact with OM.
But theres only so far you can go. Im sure she KNOWS his email address - so what use is there in deleting old group emails?
FindAir,
If my XW ever tries to claw her way back, I have a much better approach. I'm going to ask her to bring the OM's head to me on a platter. NC problem solved.
I definitely know it means nothing. Just trying to establish my boundaries. W called that MF so many times it's embedded in her brain.
Me deleting is so controlling. I'm usually not a micro manager, but she was playing stupid. She did make an effort to delete but there was some residual and she never cleans out her inbox. Old stuff from years back all "group" emails with her and OM on them. It was all within a good conversation though and I just did it.
Me deleting is so controlling. I'm usually not a micro manager, but she was playing stupid. She did make an effort to delete but there was some residual and she never cleans out her inbox. Old stuff from years back all "group" emails with her and OM on them. It was all within a good conversation though and I just did it.
Still, that isn't your place. At all.
doodler,
I'm sorry to say that I'm sharpening my sword as we speak, I just need the platter!
Jeep74,
Got it, your right and I wont do it again.
doodler,
I'm sorry to say that I'm sharpening my sword as we speak, I just need the platter!
Reiterated strict zero contact rule she agreed. She had deleted the contact, but there seem to be residual emails in her inbox on some group emails on multiple devises. I spent time going through and deleting the rest as best as I could. I still think its not enough, because we have old cell phones in drawers laying around, plus the fact W probably has contact info memorized. IDK if this is right, but I even text the OM (I know he's deathly afraid of me) to do the same He replied back agreeing. I will continue to invasive with him and battle two fronts if I have to.
Having her agreement is good. Did she agree to cooperate in being completely transparent?
Were you going through her group email and deleting things that included OM.......and was she aware? I can see it as helping to delete things that could be a trigger for her. However, from this point forward, it is her responsibility to delete or detour those triggers. The group emails could be a problem if they mention OM's name or if it includes remarks (and emails) from him. Things of this nature is where she will need to be educated in how it will affect her emotionally and keep the affair alive in her head. If I had not received the information of how it works much like a drug to an addict, it would have taken me forever to get over it......and then I may have been ready for OM#2, as a way to feed the craving. It's not the OM she really loves.....it's how the affair made her feel. Affairs are highly addictive, and that's why some people will find a replacement if the first affair fizzles out.
I think I'd dispose of the old cell phones. Nothing is foolproof, and she can always buy a pay-as-you-go cell if she wants to keep contacting OM, but it would not have old text messages stored on it. If it were me, I'd consider the old phones as part of cleaning house and throwing out the trash.
I have my first appointment with a IC today. W is researching her own and is going on her own accord. She is in contact with one but does not have an appointment set up as of yet. I haven't pushed it with her this is her own doing. I did tell her that If I decide to move forward, I will request to see a MC together. I will choose one like you advised.
I really wish you had insisted on couples therapy for
healing after an affair. I have heard a lot of negative outcomes (and experienced it myself) with so-called MC where they basically tell the WW to get a divorce and go find whatever makes happy. But anyway, I hope she lucks out and gets one that is pro-marriage.
We talked about sex, I said I'm not doing it until she is tested and as a result I have to get tested too (protection or not). She was a little taken back. She said that she recently had surgery (this was after she admitted everything) and received a pap smear and the results were negative. I didn't fall for it.
I'm sure she was taken back, however, it also shines the light on the fact that she has been, or would be, putting you at risk........so, IMHO, getting a STD test is nothing but right (and considerate), if she cares for you at all.
sandi2 I have to tell you..... You seem to put in a lot and effort and time with me on this and I see you do across multiple threads. That is unbelievable to me and I am truly grateful. And... there are others here that do the same, you are all fantastic!
Ah....that's so nice! I have found some really good people here, and miss them when they leave. We invest time in each other and we share a very personal part of our lives. I don't remember seeing anyone here who did not care about the outcome of their fellow DB members.
Just one more thing while it's on my mind. I have seen some H's so eager to pass forward what he's learning with the WW that he would be voicing a phrase he picked up on the board, or he would verbally repeat certain things that were said for his ears only. Not that you've done this.....and I don't know if you follow me or not, but a W knows her H better than anyone......and she is smart enough to know he's getting those words from someone else. It's kind of like hearing someone read out of a book. What I'm saying is that it may not be as effective, if it sounds like someone else's words to her ears. Unless you are advised in how to directly say something to her, I caution you to remember that this board is your tool box......and not hers. Does any of this make sense?
Having her agreement is good. Did she agree to cooperate in being completely transparent?
Were you going through her group email and deleting things that included OM.......and was she aware? I can see it as helping to delete things that could be a trigger for her. However, from this point forward, it is her responsibility to delete or detour those triggers.
Trying to figure out these quote buttons...
Anyway sandi2, It was during a discussion of transparency and she acted like she was confused and needed help deleting everything. I guess that she tried to delete everything, but missed a few. We were sitting together. I will get rid of the old stuff too.
I originally made the appointment to see IC for my sake. To get my own action plan in place before we do MC, plus the appointment was made before your suggestion. I went, spent $150 and seemed like I did all the talking and the IC rushed me out in 40 mins. a little annoying and not particularly gratifying. I have another apt this coming Tues. I don't see it lasting long. Although I get the most here, I'm having a hard time with the DB program because I work and live with W and we are around eachother most of the time. Its hard to be stealth.
One other thing happened today. We received an email from my S14 math teacher today. She was concerned because he got a failing grade on his last test (unusual). when he got home we talked to him about it and he told us that he knew everything thats going on with our M and even overheard our discussions about the A. we didn't engage him about it. I was stunned because we tried to keep it quite. I asked if D16 heard that as well and he said he thought so. Later on in private he asked me if it were true and I said we will discuss as a family. I know this is effecting them....
I originally made the appointment to see IC for my sake. To get my own action plan in place before we do MC, plus the appointment was made before your suggestion.
I'm not sure I understand. Are you wanting the IC to advise you as what to do in going forward?
I suggest the therapy be one of the priorities as part of your plan of action. If the IC couldn't spend an hour with you, maybe you need to seek a better one.
By calling it a plan of action, I mean you plan out what and how to take steps getting to a better place in your life, instead of blindly stumbling around and not progressing at all. Seeing an IC may help you have a better sense of direction or clear your head. Plus, s/he may offer techniques for conflict resolutions. However, if s/he is not a solution based therapist, it may not be very benefitical. You may have to check out more than one or two.
Although I get the most here, I'm having a hard time with the DB program because I work and live with W and we are around eachother most of the time. Its hard to be stealth.
Even more reason you need to give
some space by leaving the house and going to the public library to read DR and do your posting, or whatever. It is important to get a life that does not include her all the time. Do you have hobbies, sports, male friends that you enjoy apart from her?
It is also part of your plan of action. You set time aside to go to a place where you can gain information in how to go forward with a healthy MR and balanced life.
Don't let too much time go by waiting from one IC appointment to the next.........while you do nothing. Have you made any plans for fun/interesting evenings at home and away from home? Anything special for the weekend? I realize the atmosphere can be tense in these situations, and that it's a real effort to plan ahead to have non-pressured time together. I recommend having friends over for a cookout, or meeting up to engage in some fun activities (bowling, live shows, etc.). Doing these type of things in small groups help to step away from so much drama between you and the W. Like I said, it takes effort, and you will probably have to be the encourager, b/c your W may be depressed after ending the affair.
She has a lot of inner work to do before you may see what you deem as "heavy lifting" from her. Both of you have a lot of work ahead...........but it may not always appear equal in your opinion. It's b/c her work and your work are somewhat different and not at the same pace.
Thanks again for you response sandi2! Yes, the IC was for an "action plan". As per your advise to seek a quality pro marriage C, I emailed the IC today and told her that Im not moving forward w her. It wasn't only you, my W and D16 went to a dance competition this weekend which gave me the opportunity to pick up a copy of DR. I had the time to read most of it and I realize that my sitch is in a different place than I realized.
The W seems to not want a D. She wants to move forward with R. She gave a promised NC. I still know I have to be on high alert and skeptical and she may have to go through a withdraw period.
It was me that wasn't sure. After diving into DR I have a different view and understanding that no matter what happened in the past, D is not necessarily the best option (grass isn't greener). So far the book has enlightened me a bit to that. I know that I/we have a long path to recovery and it won't be easy. At least I feel that I have a beneficial tool to create a cognitive "action plan" I do acknowledge that I'm in the beginning stages and its going to take while to adapt to the principles of DR fully, but at least I have a good guide with the Forum and materials. It's going to take a lot of work.
For the first time in about a month I do feel good.
Don't live on hope, man. If she wants to come back, she will. Remember the butterfly? Keep squeezing and you know what happens? Keep that in mind.
Doing all this in hopes of "winning" her back and not taking care of yourself first and foremost will take you down the failure road. And then what will you have? Resentment - for her, but worse for yourself?
Jeep74,
Point very well taken. It a tight rope walk. I am certainly trying to take care of myself, but still not confident in my sitch. It's all I think about these days. I'm trying very hard to put a good face on and at least look strong. I feel myself starting to feel better. W has sent good signals and she has been very forthcoming. I know that the flames of the fire are extinguished, I just have to be carful of the residual embers that lie beneath.
What a difference a day makes!
Yesterday I felt like I was finally getting my emotions in check.
Today, a different story. It's amazing how your emotions ebb and flow during a sitch like this.
W seems to be on the good side of wanting to work it out, but she's annoying me because I think she has the just "sweep it under the rug" mentality. She not doing anything out of the ordinary to help her or me.
I have accumulated a bunch of knowledge from this forum and in the DR book and I just want to throw all the material at her, but know I can't. Should I be telling her what to do? Guiding her? or... should I sit back and wait till she gets moving. Why do I have to do the heavy lifting, when W is the one who had the A???? Doesn't she owe me?
Today the sitch is on repeat in my head and I'm getting pissed. I feel like I should be yelling at her, but know I can't! Frustrated and venting!!!
How do I proceed?
Be still. Dont scare the squirrel back up the tree.
What, exactly, do you think she owes you?
Thornton,
Great quote/advise. Point taken. TY
Kaizen,
I know she doesn't owe me anything, I'm just frustrated cause she acting like life just goes on when it can't. There's still a major issue here, no?
What a difference a day makes!
Yesterday I felt like I was finally getting my emotions in check.
Today, a different story. It's amazing how your emotions ebb and flow during a sitch like this.
W seems to be on the good side of wanting to work it out, but she's annoying me because I think she has the just "sweep it under the rug" mentality. She not doing anything out of the ordinary to help her or me.
I have accumulated a bunch of knowledge from this forum and in the DR book and I just want to throw all the material at her, but know I can't. Should I be telling her what to do? Guiding her? or... should I sit back and wait till she gets moving. Why do I have to do the heavy lifting, when W is the one who had the A???? Doesn't she owe me?
Today the sitch is on repeat in my head and I'm getting pissed. I feel like I should be yelling at her, but know I can't! Frustrated and venting!!!
How do I proceed?
Hello FindAir,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
It is easy to be conflicted when you have so many emotions and thoughts going through your head!
Little compares to the devastation people feel when they discover their spouse has been unfaithful. Couples often struggle to get past intense emotional pain, mistrust, resentment and never ending arguments about the betrayal. Healing from infidelity is achievable for both of you with the right support and tools.
You are at a very fragile point in this relationship and it would be extremely helpful to know what your next move should be. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Thank you Cristy,
2 things...
Fortunately, I called and set up an appointment, I will begin the coaching session tomorrow. Happy about that!
Unfortunately, W and I tried to have a conversation and it didn't go to well. I guess I should of waited until after my first coaching session. Walking the tight rope!
Be still. Dont scare the squirrel back up the tree.
Scare a squirrel that's not there?
Yeah- The squirrel is up on top of a 100' oak tree!
Purchased 10 DB Coaching sessions and had my first session today. First it feels great to puke everything up and get my sitch out. I've done it a few times w/ close friends and IC (which I gave up to do DB coaching) and I have to say each time I do it feel GOOD just to talk about it!
W and I are still just biz partners and roommates. No R talks and no emotions. Coach says I should just act normal and not pursue. Coach also says to watch W carefully, actions not words.
Although I haven't pulled the trigger and cxl my flight res for our family trip Saturday, I think I'm going to. I need a little me time. Plus since both my W and I are in the pulling back posture, I don't feel like walking on eggshells for a week, plus it won't be good for the kids.
Hey All,
It's been about a week since my last post.
Family is on vacation since 4/8, I decided to stay back cause of my sitch.
Completed reading DR and had some good alone time to think. Not much contact with W other than a few text about kids/biz. I've Facetimed, text and spoken to my kids several times.
I thought I would get some sort of reaction from W staying back and not contacting her, but seems like she's going on her mary way in life. She's not showing much emotion or remorse etc. Don't know how I should read that at 5 weeks after bomb.
I guess I was expecting more.
I still have the emotion rollercoaster ride feeling the whole spectrum. Will it ever level out?
I thought I would get some sort of reaction from W staying back and not contacting her
I guess I was expecting more.
Will it ever level out?
Yes - it sounds like you are still expecting things from her. Once your expectations stay at zero, then I think the roller coaster will level out.
So you had a whole week free from family responsibilities. What did you do to GAL?
Yes, in fact I did. Been out with friends on a few occasions, continued my workout routine, rented a couple of movies that I wanted to see and some shoe shopping. Also, I've been able to focus on my work which has been virtually impossible this past month.
Sleeping has been difficult and I miss my (former) family. Former meaning the way it was before this whole thing went down.
FindAir,
My situation had several similarities to yours. A few thoughts for you. First, regarding "getting played," I understand why that would be a source of anger for you. In reality it's usually not that black and white. I would be that your W really didn't believe she was over the line for a long time, and therefore she wasn't "playing you" because she truly felt her actions were fine. People who cheat usually don't just get a wild hair up their arse and decide to go a-cheatin', it's usually the result of thousands of micro-escalations, none of which are carefully considered, then they suddenly find themselves over the line.
Doesn't make it right, doesn't make it acceptable, but it's usually not as clear cut as "getting played".
Regarding my W, what she really got addicted to was the attention , the excitement of the shared secrecy, and the romance. These things were far more important than the person, and those feelings are truly addictive. I mean really, who wouldn't want to be the subject of admiration and attention from a member of the opposite sex? Of course that feels good. If you can keep that going over a long period of time it becomes your norm and something you feel you "need".
In reality that's not normal at all. Real relationships don't have extended periods of one-sided positive affirmation, real life gets in the way and relationships establish an equilibrium that really isn't all that exciting. It can be good or even great, but it's not exciting like a new romance for years on end!
When I got to where you are now with my W, I was relieved because I thought that OM being gone and NC being established meant that the threat to the marriage was over.
Although that guy did disappear and they did honor NC, my W went through a very real grieving process about the loss of those feelings, and subconsciously blamed me for it because I had "taken that away from her" and not replaced it, because she didn't feel the same way about me. I couldn't replace those feelings because she didn't want me to, nor could I, because our relationship was reality, not fantasy.
In any case, I took a real shot at reconciliation over the course of three years, but unfortunately, W never got over the void that was created in pursuing these exciting feelings, so she just started the cycle again with someone new. At that point I'd had it and we got divorced.
Believe me, now her life is very "real world" as dating in your 50's "for real" bears no similarities to having the security and stability of marriage plus pursuing excitement on the side. That option is no longer available to her, so she's needed to get over it because she hasn't had another choice.
The bottom line here is that making sure she's done with OM is only a small part of the process. She needs to grieve the loss of these feelings she got from their interactions, realize that those were not a realistic expectation for a long term marriage, and change her life to learn to live without them, without constantly seeking opportunities to get them again.
If she doesn't do that hard work on herself, the cycle *will* repeat, either with the same OM or with a new one. It's not about the guy, it's about how she feels about herself due to the attentions of the guy. She needs to learn to feel good about herself without that, and that's not something you can do for her.
Acc
ACC!
Thanks so much for taking the time and writing a well broken down and intelligent response. Your absolutely correct.
My problem is, I feel like I'm battling two battles. The relationship, which includes reconciliation or not and the second my emotions. I haven't had this much difficulty with these feelings my whole life. Its a real struggle.
So, when you put the two battles together, I tend to lean on someone who has been there for me for close to 23 yrs for support and their not there. They can't be, their the cause. It become a real conflict within ones self.
I have thought through this a 1000x since this happened and know that the problems lies deep within the W. Ultimately she has to get fixed, right? Do I wait, help and support or just bail knowing in the back of my mind theres a good chance the circumstance can repeat itself.
My thinking is now, why should I fight for it and do the heavy lifting when she's at fault and why should I be obligate to have the patience when the odds aren't in my favor?
I hope soon I will find the answer and I know whatever direction I take is risky. A risk I did't ask for or deserved.
Thanks again!
Exactly -- for most people you can think of your well being as a pie, for simple arguments sake say half of the pie is what you do for yourself, in terms of your emotional well being, and the other half is what you get from your relationship. Sometimes you get less from the relationship and your slice gets bigger by comparison, sometimes you need to lean on the relationship and your slice gets smaller by comparison.
For your W, she's had three slices, what she does for herself, what she gets from the relationship with you, and what she gets from her EA.
When everything goes south, here's what happens:
For her, the EA piece is completely missing, she feels guilty and bad about herself for what she's done (although usually she won't show you that), so she's incapable of picking herself up to make her slice bigger, plus her relationship with you has gone off the rails so that slice has shrunk as well -- it's a huge void. She has three choices to fill it: (1) entice you to lean back in and fawn all over her, (2) pick back up with the OM or a new substitute OM, or (3) do the hard work on herself to grow her own slice and make her feel better about herself by addressing her deep seated issues.
The last one is the most difficult and most painful, with no guarantees, so she's going to fight like hell against that until she hits bottom. Instead, she's going to try to manipulate you into #1, and do what she can to get #2 -- that *appears* to be her shortest path back to feeling good and requires the least amount of work.
Now let's look at your side. You had your two slice pie. Now the relationship slice is completely gone and you have nothing to fill it. That's completely destabilizing. It's the same challenge she's confronting but in a different way.
You either need to fill the relationship slice by stepping up what you do for yourself, *or* convince her to come back and fill it. Everyone here convinces themselves that this second path is the shortest path back to feeling good and requires the least amount of work, so people get obsessive about making it happen.
The worst case scenario is that you both end up rushing back together for no other reason than to fill a void, and you go forward no better off than you were before and with more scars and hurt to add to what is already undoubtedly a stack of resentments.
You each need to fill the void on your own, for yourselves. That WILL happen. You were single before you got married and you survived that, you can survive this, it just takes time for your slice to grow and to establish a new norm.
Once you both go through that painful process, you'll be on equal footing and can decide to come back together by choice, versus out of perceived necessity. That's the difficult path, but the one that's going to last.
Your description of your marriage sounds like you were in a perpetual "one down" scenario, where you were more committed than your W, and were trying to extract more from her than she was willing to give to the relationship, and she was trying to keep you at bay while spreading her attentions elsewhere. That's not an equilibrium you want to re-establish.
If you re-engage, you want it to be as equal partners where she is with you because she desperately wants to be, not because you're the easy and comfortable choice. To get there, you need to step away and give each other space "to be" on your own.
Ironically the shortest path back together is a straight line in the opposite direction. That requires a leap of faith, but it's really the only way it works long term.
Acc
Exactly -- for most people you can think of your well being as a pie, for simple arguments sake say half of the pie is what you do for yourself, in terms of your emotional well being, and the other half is what you get from your relationship. Sometimes you get less from the relationship and your slice gets bigger by comparison, sometimes you need to lean on the relationship and your slice gets smaller by comparison.
For your W, she's had three slices, what she does for herself, what she gets from the relationship with you, and what she gets from her EA.
When everything goes south, here's what happens:
For her, the EA piece is completely missing, she feels guilty and bad about herself for what she's done (although usually she won't show you that), so she's incapable of picking herself up to make her slice bigger, plus her relationship with you has gone off the rails so that slice has shrunk as well -- it's a huge void. She has three choices to fill it: (1) entice you to lean back in and fawn all over her, (2) pick back up with the OM or a new substitute OM, or (3) do the hard work on herself to grow her own slice and make her feel better about herself by addressing her deep seated issues.
The last one is the most difficult and most painful, with no guarantees, so she's going to fight like hell against that until she hits bottom. Instead, she's going to try to manipulate you into #1, and do what she can to get #2 -- that *appears* to be her shortest path back to feeling good and requires the least amount of work.
Now let's look at your side. You had your two slice pie. Now the relationship slice is completely gone and you have nothing to fill it. That's completely destabilizing. It's the same challenge she's confronting but in a different way.
You either need to fill the relationship slice by stepping up what you do for yourself, *or* convince her to come back and fill it. Everyone here convinces themselves that this second path is the shortest path back to feeling good and requires the least amount of work, so people get obsessive about making it happen.
The worst case scenario is that you both end up rushing back together for no other reason than to fill a void, and you go forward no better off than you were before and with more scars and hurt to add to what is already undoubtedly a stack of resentments.
You each need to fill the void on your own, for yourselves. That WILL happen. You were single before you got married and you survived that, you can survive this, it just takes time for your slice to grow and to establish a new norm.
Once you both go through that painful process, you'll be on equal footing and can decide to come back together by choice, versus out of perceived necessity. That's the difficult path, but the one that's going to last.
Your description of your marriage sounds like you were in a perpetual "one down" scenario, where you were more committed than your W, and were trying to extract more from her than she was willing to give to the relationship, and she was trying to keep you at bay while spreading her attentions elsewhere. That's not an equilibrium you want to re-establish.
If you re-engage, you want it to be as equal partners where she is with you because she desperately wants to be, not because you're the easy and comfortable choice. To get there, you need to step away and give each other space "to be" on your own.
Ironically the shortest path back together is a straight line in the opposite direction. That requires a leap of faith, but it's really the only way it works long term.
Acc
ALL OF THAT ABOVE!!! WOW!!!
This might be worthy of being put into the newbie required reading. Just an incredible way to think about this whole sitch we are in. Even though this is not my thread, I thank you for every word of that. I might read this daily.
IKR! ACC has it! I love the pie analogy!
Logically it makes a ton of scenes. I hope my rollercoaster ride flatlines a bit so I can think rationally.
Thats my whole problem.... I have a pretty good site of the paths I need to choose, but the fog of emotions are the obstacles.
Family came back from vacation last night. It was nice seeing my family, including my W. Missed them all.
W and I had R talk this morning, good conversation. She seems like she wants to try. My DB coach said for move slow and that ACTIONS are important not the words. IDK what actions I should be looking for. I guess they will jump out at me.
Does anyone have a good template for a NC letter? We talked about that being the first step. I just want to make sure it's good and effective.
TY!
Well..... tonight we are going to a good friends 50th birthday party and over the past week I have been thinking on how I want/should handle it with W. I was planning to try to have a nice evening with her with no R talks at all and I was really looking forward to it. Enjoy the evening together despite everything thats going on, right?
Its amazing what time does. I woke up this morning with a different attitude this morning. I felt like I didn't even want to go with her tonight. I'm still like why?
My emotions are really all over the place. I even burst out into tears writing my friends card. I never do that???? I know that it had nothing to do with my friend or his birthday and it was all to do with the crap that I'm living through right now. Now I really don't want to go with her.
I love her a lot but hate her a lot at the same time. Makes no sense!
Find - this is pretty common actually.
As LBS's suffer and agonize over the departure of the WAS, we tend to only think of the good times. It's clouded thinking at best.
When the WAS returns to the LBS, all of a sudden we can start to feel the anger that we've pushed aside for so long as we did everything we could to save the M. We also start to dial in on all bad things the WAS did.
Sometimes the roles will reverse and you can become the WAS.
I would suggest going to the party with W and do not have any relationship talks. Try to enjoy each other's company.
You have plenty of time to work on the issues you have with W but, IMO, now is not the time to rock the boat.
What would be the harm in reading the books? You can decide later on if you want to be married or not. If you make this decision now out of anger, you may regret it later and not have another chance.
I know you're hurting but it's kind of...unwise to refuse to even read the book that forms the basis of this site.
FYI We do NOT argue for people to save their marriages, at all cost. If you read a DB book, you won't be brainwashed.
Interestingly we have children almost exactly the same ages and sexes. I have been on this path a while. It is devastating to the children. Consider that before you proceed further.
I don't mean to make light of this in any way, but it sounds a lot like Lady Di and Prince Charles and how she said there were always three people in the marriage. It looks like yours has been that way as well.
For some amount of time, your w has had some of her needs met by this man and some by you. It was wrong. I'm not a black & white poster here, but a long term affair like this one takes an enormous amount of cognitive dissonance on her part,
and your feelings about the past (what was real/fake??) are normal and damn hard. Believe me, we know. It's especially hard for longer marriages with kids and assets built b/c you feel a sense of achievement that feels yanked out from under you.
We get it.
I had a great DB coach and at one point I asked her about divorce or quitting, etc. She told me what I'd tell you...it's your personal choice and do not let anyone else tell you what will make you happy with yourself - it's not a small decision, it's not something to let anger direct.
Rather than thinking that walking away won't take work and restoring your marriage will, realize that either choice would be painful and require work to do in a healthy way.
There is no painless path ahead of you. And I'm so sorry.
I had many years of actions and red flags I ignored. One of the hardest things for me, and I suspect it will be for you, is forgiving yourself for not seeing it. For not wanting to believe.
^^^ yes...
I now realize I saw things that validated my choice to stay, and was blind to too much else. Probably fears, to be honest. And in some ways, possibly ashamed?
Had I faced the issues earlier, head on, I don't know...I went to T and IC and I feel like I was a better wife since the recon, I mean, I did some serious growing spiritually and emotionally ( h did not, btw. We went to a few mc's sessions and reconciled and I felt as if we were done, we had "Won" the stay married battle! When we began to piece, h's mother was diagnosed as terminally ill and we shelved the piecing and to this day I don't think H has ever seen a T about any of the damage he wrought on our family...)
In retrospect I DO see some deep unresolved childhood issues in my h, which he probably will never even look at, let alone with insight, let alone the motivation and wherewithal to change.
But H's childhood issues & incredible lack of self awareness, are not my problems now.
IF your w is willing to do real, brave, substantial honest work on herself, AND does it, it'd be a start to any kind of relationship with her. Not saying a restored m relationship, some type of cooperative r. As for what you decide, ultimately, only you will know what you can and cannot live with and what you have built
and what you can afford, and only you know how your children feel...
but a decent r with her, requires soul searching in her.
I am telling you this now and I hope you remember it. It does not meant that you are a sap or stupid. It meanst that you have a kind heart and a good soul and you projected onto your wife your own goodness and that caused you to silence that voice inside of you that said that things were not right.
Forgive yourself, read the books, work the program, live as if you are moving on, but keep the door slightly ajar until you are strong enough to make that decision. Please do it for the benefit of your children, at least for now.
same advice here. And if you read my signature block and Own's, you can see that we do get your situation. Long marriages, with discoveries we do not enjoy making at all...require tools to get with an IC of your own, first of all.
Speaking for myself, DBing is a way of life, not a route to forgiving all... a life of integrity and openness and the sincere desire for self actualization, and to support our loved ones in doing the same.
Turn over your marriage to God or your higher power, and work on you.
When you become the best man you can become, truly, then you can be at peace. Meanwhile, hold your head high.
Family came back from vacation last night. It was nice seeing my family, including my W. Missed them all.
W and I had R talk this morning, good conversation. She seems like she wants to try. My DB coach said for move slow and that ACTIONS are important not the words. IDK what actions I should be looking for. I guess they will jump out at me.
Does anyone have a good template for a NC letter? We talked about that being the first step. I just want to make sure it's good and effective.
TY!
If you want specifics, I'd ask a DB coach - they are specific, detailed in their advice and very helpful regardless of what path you choose. HER writing the NC is obviously mandatory since your text to OM failed even though he said "done" and blah blah blah.
Is your w seeking IC? Sorry if I missed that, but the heavy lifting is hers to do.
Imo, she needs real help if you think she's basically a good person, albeit one with a huge character flaw. (if you don't think she's basically a good but troubled person, but just has no integrity, then let us know). There is a personal growth workshop for individuals (helps them in all r's of course) in Philadelphia called "Essential Experience" that I thought was profoundly helpful. Like 2 years of therapy in one long weekend and made some real changes in my life. None of these things work without persistence, however. So it's not like one weekend 'fixes" everything but it can be the jumpstart for tremendous growth and change the trajectory of someone's life.
Later as a couple - if/when you get there, try a couples retreat like "Retrovaille" which is for couples in crisis, btw. You don't have to be Catholic to attend, I'm positive.
So I'd back off, focus on myself and my own GAL, DETACH, detach (and I don't know how to detach without GAL)
I'd assume for my own protection, that she won't do the needed work
but I'd hope for the best and see...
have you read the book yet?
What a difference a day makes!
Yesterday I felt like I was finally getting my emotions in check.
Today, a different story. It's amazing how your emotions ebb and flow during a sitch like this.
W seems to be on the good side of wanting to work it out, but she's annoying me because I think she has the just "sweep it under the rug" mentality. She not doing anything out of the ordinary to help her or me.
this^^ is a hard balancing challenge. On one hand, she's got to do a ton of work to earn your trust back and that's a fact. Work she may not realize fully or understand the pain she has caused AND OR work she wants to circumvent....neither of which is okay for your long term marriage.
on the other hand, you have to give her the chance, and the belief that someday you two will or can get past this. You cannot hold it over her head or throw it in her face every time you fight, and you will fight.
The worst choice is staying m, and miserable.
My suggestion is clarity on your end about what you need.
I have accumulated a bunch of knowledge from this forum and in the DR book and I just want to throw all the material at her, but know I can't. Should I be telling her what to do? Guiding her? or... should I sit back and wait till she gets moving. Why do I have to do the heavy lifting, when W is the one who had the A???? Doesn't she owe me?
oh my I see me in you here^^.
Sigh...everyone has work of their own, including healing. So there's no "Sitting back" for you.
There is heavy lifting for you, no matter what she does. As for her "owing" you.
Well, yeah, she does owe you, and I get that. But it's you being a strong man on your own, a forgiving but wiser man, whom she will want to "repay",
not an angry weak man who says he wants to work on the m but really will come off as punishing.
NOT b/c you want to punish her consciously, (or maybe at all), but b/c she's got something going on deep within her that she has to work out. And it'll be much later if she heals that and resolves those issues
that she'll be able to see your capacity for loyalty and love, in a safer light. That is when she'd see that she owes you.
I suspect right now she's got some serious shame to run & hide from...more than we can probably relate to.
Guilt is when we feel remorse for what we did, even when no one else knows.
Shame is worrying about others finding out, and rejecting us. You can have both at once, but shame makes them hide and lie...and run.
Since you want to at least be open to restoring your m, and b/c piecing is hard enough as it is, lose the "she owes me" belief for now...even though, believe me, I understand your point.
How do I proceed?
Keep at it, that's how. Do your own heavy lifting and at a certain level it'll model what "real work" looks like.
And I'd get your kids in to see someone too. Both of them know if the younger one does.
Thornton, I am going to to have a good time with her.... Still putting on a good front. Thanks for the advise.
Hi 25,
I'm still not there with my DB coach, hopefully soon... As far as the NC letter, I found one and used a variation of it. My W took it to her psychiatrist (her second visit) and he said that they she should be trying to undo why she has secrets and lies and it is not truly coming from her, so she shouldn't send it unless it from her words. Needless to say, it's not sent. He also advised that I should come in for a session. W claims that her heavy lifting is working on her own problems first, thats frustrates me. She has to undo herself to get back on track is her claim.
I'm finding it hard to detach because we live/work together, but I am GALing as much as possible. I bought and read the DR book and found it helpful.
TY
Hi 25,
I'm still not there with my DB coach, hopefully soon... As far as the NC letter, I found one and used a variation of it. My W took it to her psychiatrist (her second visit) and he said that they she should be trying to undo why she has secrets and lies and it is not truly coming from her, so she shouldn't send it unless it from her words.
(Okay I will get to the NC letter later.)
I think anyone who has a long term affair but simultaneously seems to want to remain married -- HAS deep seated ISSUES...and frankly,
if I were in your shoes, (and what I wish I had known 10 years ago) I would want to know that my spouse was digging deep to do some hard, scary brave work to figure out why they'd risk hurting me, us AND ruining our family... it's not just about the marriage, in fact if she does not work on this crap, you'll be here again down the road with some other stuff. AND if you don't do your work, b/c you seem to think her coming back is "the solution" but it's not.
Piecing is often harder than reconciling. Seriously. I know what I'm saying.
so
Needless to say, it's not sent. He also advised that I should come in for a session. W claims that her heavy lifting is working on her own problems first, thats frustrates me. She has to undo herself to get back on track is her claim.
I agree that without her doing her own work, reconciliation won't last. I honestly think tis' more in your interests to make sure she addresses her baggage and shame, which you might be overlooking the dangers of.
But that is not to say the A is negotiable. The NC letter's contents probably are, but not ending the A.
I'm finding it hard to detach because we live/work together, but I am GALing as much as possible. I bought and read the DR book and found it helpful.
TY
GAL is the only way i know to help you detach. How are your kids?
25,
Based of the few R talks since the bomb.... she has conceded that she does have deep rooted issues that she wants resolved. Issues from having a very difficult upbringing with a lunatic mother and a unavailable father. A huge problem was that she was raped by an 18yo neighbor when she was 14. When she told her mother her mother turned her back on her and blamed her for flirting with the neighbor and shamed her and the farther barley stood up for her. My W just disclosed that to me recently, I never knew.
She's been seeing a psychiatrist (2 sessions) and apparently she's told him everything. The psychiatrist suggested that I join in on the next session. She claims as a result of that incident described above, that she always needs to do bad things and keep/have secrets mostly because she wasn't protected by her parents. She doesn't drink, smoke or do drugs. She also said that anyone (including me) who tried to protect her she would naturally push them away. So I know I have a steep climb.
I'm pretty sure both of my kids know... I had a couple of conversations with S14 and he claims that he overheard us discussing it when the news first broke. I tried to answer his questions as best as I could without lying to him. As far as my D16, I think she knows cause S14 does and they are close. I've asked D16 if she needed to talk, she said no she was fine and wanted to focus on school. The first month was tense around here, so one can assume this had an effect on them. Both W and I are being a lot calmer now out of courtesy for them.
The NC letter seems to be for me. I view the OM as a predator and an enemy to my family, W including. Although I exposed it to OMW, I still feel the need to watch both W and OM closely. W claims he was just the source of the "secret" and not much emotional attachment. I don't particularly buy it.
I read the book "Not Just Friends" recommended by my DB coach. I asked W the 10 questions that were laid out in the book and to answer them honestly. One of the questions was.. did she have any other inappropriate behavior within our M? Her answer was no. I only had a gut suspicion that it was only this one OM. He was older and fit the father that was always unavailable to her.
I can say I'm trying to GAL, I'm not perfect. I detached and go dark when we aren't around each other. as I said we work and live together and its heard to detach. Any recommendations would the very much appreciated.
Thanks for the input.
25,
Based of the few R talks since the bomb.... she has conceded that she does have deep rooted issues that she wants resolved. Issues from having a very difficult upbringing with a lunatic mother and a unavailable father. A huge problem was that she was raped by an 18yo neighbor when she was 14. When she told her mother her mother turned her back on her and blamed her for flirting with the neighbor and shamed her and the farther barley stood up for her. My W just disclosed that to me recently, I never knew.
These are ^^ problems. Guilt and shame can be corrosive.
Like your w in some ways, My h had a weird upbringing. His mom was kind but mentally ill often, (so h parented her at times) and a military father who was gone for long long chunks of time, and who had a temper and drinking problem when he was home (though he was smart and had some good qualities too, but not very stable).
H was the oldest of 2 and he bore way too much responsibility at an early age.
HOWEVER that's not a reason for his present choices, or for me to be plagued with nagging doubts about his credibility, forever. I had a challenging childhood too, and guess what? I got therapy and attended workshops and I got the tools I needed to dump the baggage on my own, not on someone else.
This^^ is why I can only go so far about labels of "MLC" or "Narcissistic Personality Disorder", etc. I did my work, pe
In the final analysis, it's about what type of father and h, my h was and what type of mother your wife is, and wife. Your needs count too, obviously. AND your kids...
IF they know of the A, it's only fair they know SOME of your w's issues. I mean it's her story to tell, but it's reasonable to tell the kids she has some "hard issues from childhood that may be a driving force she'll have to learn to deal with..."
And leave it at that. It's important that our children not think the wayward spouse/MLC whatever, is not a bad person. Even if you think they are...here's an illustrative anecdote.
A woman in a contentious divorce was driving her 6 y/o son home from school. She got a call from her soon to be xh, and they briefly argued. She sighed, but said nothing about her h, to their son.
But the boy looked up at his mom and asked "is my dad a bad person?"
In that moment she was embarrassed at her behavior. Her son knew he was made up of half his dad and half her...and she could not bare to tell her son that half of him came from a bad person, even though in her heart she really saw her h in that light. She knew it would be unhealthy for her son. Who knows how that belief might manifest later? I think there are often generational effects we cannot know when we remark in anger...
and in some states if you bad mouth your x to the kids, you can lose custody. It's called "parental alienation".
Anyhow, I'll write more later. If your w really does want to own her stuff and work on it and seems truly remorseful, you have a real shot if you want it.
You actually have what most LBSers want when they arrive here.
((( )))
She's been seeing a psychiatrist (2 sessions) and apparently she's told him everything. The psychiatrist suggested that I join in on the next session. She claims as a result of that incident described above, that she always needs to do bad things and keep/have secrets mostly because she wasn't protected by her parents. She doesn't drink, smoke or do drugs. She also said that anyone (including me) who tried to protect her she would naturally push them away. So I know I have a steep climb.
I'm pretty sure both of my kids know... I had a couple of conversations with S14 and he claims that he overheard us discussing it when the news first broke. I tried to answer his questions as best as I could without lying to him. As far as my D16, I think she knows cause S14 does and they are close. I've asked D16 if she needed to talk, she said no she was fine and wanted to focus on school. The first month was tense around here, so one can assume this had an effect on them. Both W and I are being a lot calmer now out of courtesy for them.
The NC letter seems to be for me. I view the OM as a predator and an enemy to my family, W including. Although I exposed it to OMW, I still feel the need to watch both W and OM closely. W claims he was just the source of the "secret" and not much emotional attachment. I don't particularly buy it.
I read the book "Not Just Friends" recommended by my DB coach. I asked W the 10 questions that were laid out in the book and to answer them honestly. One of the questions was.. did she have any other inappropriate behavior within our M? Her answer was no. I only had a gut suspicion that it was only this one OM. He was older and fit the father that was always unavailable to her.
I can say I'm trying to GAL, I'm not perfect. I detached and go dark when we aren't around each other. as I said we work and live together and its heard to detach. Any recommendations would the very much appreciated.
Thanks for the input.
Even though you feel right and she has betrayed you, you still have to GAL and it's partly to Detach
but it's also to remind her and yourself that you are an interesting fun attractive man that you are a good catch, (which you are) and a HAPPY man, at peace with himself as you work on healing and detaching...
and a great loving father. You have to be the kids rock, now more than ever.
For GAL suggestions, let me mention some of what I did when we lived in the interior of Alaska, even in the winter. And I had 3 kids including a baby (so you know I don't want to hear about how you're 'too busy' to GAL).
Painful Inertia is the greatest enemy to GAL. Overcome that, & you'll be well on your way to a happier more fulfilling life. IMO, the more you overcome inertia, the better your R's will be with all people, including your w.
I volunteered at a battered women's shelter.
I coached a girl's softball team, two summers (my older D was on it).
I was on the board of directors for Wrestling, (b/c our son wrestled).
I auditioned for community theater and met some fun creative people. I got cast, too.
I did stand up comedy (and yes, I still do it). I did a whole set once on a MLCs at the Improv. It went very well.
I learned to cross country ski, became a better shooter.
I Learned to hunt big game, to deep sea fish, & I got better at downhill skiing.
I learned to use a snowmobile ("snow machine" to Alaskans)
I loved riding.
Learned to fly a plane, and I got a pilot's license.
Went skydiving. Loved it so much I did it again. And plan on doing it again, soon!
Edited a book. (The book ended up on the Best Seller's List. Who knew?)
I Worked out 3-4 times a week, and I really did get in excellent shape. Looking good made a world of difference to me. Found a work out partner and began socializing after the work outs.
(Plus I'd just had our last child and needed to lose the baby weight. It was not easy to do, let alone in the dark, deathly cold of their long LONG winters).
In the winter, I used a tanning booth, which helped me a lot with depression. I felt more energized, and it probably helped my appearance, which also helps us FEEL better.
Saw a therapist and for some months, went on ADs.
Took a pottery class (very odd for me to do, but I liked it a lot).
Joined the Officer's Wives club after 15 years of active duty.
(Wish I had joined sooner! Met two women who are life long friends to this day.)
Joined a writer's group
Took a class in Conversational French
Took a class in Italian cooking
There is more, but I just wanted to suggest to you a few things you can do that do not cost a lot. Other than pilot training, most of these ^^ activities were free, or quite cheap.
******these helped me feel better every time i did one of them.
Approaching the 2 mo. mark since D Day... Just wanted to post my current thoughts/feelings, maybe to vent or just maybe to give it up to the good people on this forum.
My emotions... although more under control than the previous month... I'm still dealing with the yin yang and the ebb and flow. I've become a male version of Syble with dueling emotional personalities.
One second I want to be a loving H and carry my W to the promise land. Helping her through her troublesome sickness and bring everything/M to normalcy. "From richer to poorer, in sickness and in health, till death do us part". The very next second I want to run far away.
I sit with patience and see how the game is played out, waiting. I'm obsessing constantly.
I know at some point I have to make a decision... What it will be, IDK. I do know that whatever decision I do make, it will be for my sanity, happiness and security... I'm not going to waiver on that. BUT when I ask, does this decision come, how long can/do I wait?
I sit with patience and see how the game is played out, waiting. I'm obsessing constantly.
Maybe theres something more active you can do besides just waiting? This will help with your obsession.
How can you build a life you will be content with regardless of what comes of the situation with W?
Kaizen,
I have been. I been doing a ton of GALing, but I still can't shake the uncertainty. I've been peaceful with a steady demeanor. Its the decision of weather to stay or to go that I long for.
Then how about you frame it this way - today will you decide to stay or go. Worry about tomorrow tomorrow.
That should help alleviate some pressure about a "milestone" event
Findair - I know about obsessing all too well, it's a nightmare.
I agree with Kaizen, you need to start challenging yourself to not "wait" for her. This is something I've been trying to do as well. I'm not suggesting you give up on W. I'm suggesting you take some time away to recharge your batteries and to maintain your sanity.
Here's what I do know... if your W has unresolved issues to work through, these issues are not resolved quickly. You can't fix her, only she can do the gut wrenching work to fix herself.
Yes your probably right. Or, just put the milestone event out of mind. It is what it is and it will be what it will be. right? Just can't do it right now.
I agree that your goal should always be to make it to the next day. During these types of situations, emotions change way too much. Especially in the early months.
Yes your probably right. Or, just put the milestone event out of mind. It is what it is and it will be what it will be. right? Just can't do it right now.
All you need to do is say when you wake up "I will not file for divorce today". If thats eventually not the case, then you can proceed like that.
I found that I was helped a lot by focusing on the present and not worrying about things that may never come to fruition.
W and her shrink want me to do a session with them next week and maybe a few more after that. Not sure what to do. I have a DB coach and she is going to a psychiatrist and we are not doing any MC together. Although I would ultimately want to do MC. W wants to figure out why she has these deep rooted issues first and I kind of want to work independently as well. Just wanted to get your thoughts. Thanks everyone!
Would like to hear from you.
Hi All,
It's been over a month since I last posted and there have been so many changes.
My fear of staying in a lack luster non trusting relationship got the best of me. I went away by myself and reflected on the 20 year marriage.
I came home and filed.
My patience has been gone for a long time and though I'm not sure that I made the right choice, I felt that theres to much baggage to carry and healing to do.
W's reaction wasn't what I thought... it was more contentious than sad, so I might have made the correct choice.
Still feeling the array of emotions.
My fear of staying in a lack luster non trusting relationship got the best of me. I went away by myself and reflected on the 20 year marriage.
I came home and filed.
I think you're being hasty, it's only been 3 months since BD. I know how it is, a lot of times we just want to rip the bandaid off and get it over with. But you're emotions are still very raw and you are still trying to find your way through this. So is she. I would suggest easing off of that and continue getting counseling and allow her to continue her counseling. Are you still talking to a DB coach? Continue that. Explore your feelings with the counselors, they'll help you find your path.
I felt that theres to much baggage to carry and healing to do.
How does being divorced help you with that healing?
Still feeling the array of emotions.
Exactly. Why would you want to make life-changing decisions while youre still in a state of emotional upheaval?
You are so right AStander!
I just go heavy and my emotions dictate. I definitely scared her back into the twilight, at least for the time being.
But at the same time, I feel I have to be true to myself and choose the best path to happiness. Either with or without. You know what I mean?
The one thing I take away is that It's a very confusing state now and each move I/we make plots the corse whether it be the right choice or the wrong one.
FA
I feel I have to be true to myself and choose the best path to happiness. Either with or without. You know what I mean?
By filing, arent you choosing 'without'?
Actually Kaizen, In my overthinking way... I know filing isn't the end until the judge puts a stamp on it. 50% of me figured we can't still work it out until then. The other 50% completely wants out and start a new. I go back and forth between these personalities. There has been 2 extremes and no middle and I can't seem to control it.
If you cannot control it. As hard as it is (believe me I am torn as well) but making such an extreme choice may not have a way for it come back.