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http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2728409Total breakdown yesterday. Riding home on the train, playing a video game on my phone with John Mayer's "Paradise Valley" in the background. Despite being an older release, it was my first time through the album. I caught the last few words of "Waitin' on a Day"...
"Waitin' on the day
When these words are in stone
When the kids are all grown
And we go dancing"
(I know, I know, I'm a glutton for punishment...)
I skipped back to the beginning and listened to the whole song without distraction. Then I lost it.
I lost it on the train, on the walk to the parking lot, and then finally let it out in the solitude of my car.
This song is me. Right now. In every way possible.
The worst part is that every fiber of my being wants to send this song to my W, or play it for her, or sing it to her. But I won't. I know it's pursuing.
Then something happened. I asked for mercy. I don't know who I was asking... God? The universe? Myself? Hard to say. All I know is that I got home, hung out with my kids, ate dinner and I was overcome by a feeling of hopefulness. My W called from FL to talk to the kids and we exchanged a few friendly words. But the hopefulness wasn't because of that. And I'm not even sure if the hopefulness had anything to do with thoughts of reconciliation.
All I know is that I asked for mercy, and I got it. It didn't last long but it didn't need to. I just needed to get through the night.
And I can always ask again right?
Chris73,
There are things that make us break down...a song, a photograph, an article...but so glad you asked for mercy...and received it...
I read an article by Amy Krouse Rosenthal who is dying and it was all about how much she loved her H...and all the little things he did for her through their 26 years together...and it threw me for a loop...it was so beautiful and loving and filled with gratitude and sincerity...
I hope your week with just the kids is going well...
Thanks Gordie. I started reading that article too. I had to stop though. It was too much for me to handle at the time. I may go back and try again though.
Hi Gordie.
I had a good week overall. W came back from FL on Thursday evening. I know there would be no evidence to find but it didn't seem like she had the wild week that I'd expected. Seems like she spent most of the time just relaxing. I'm not snooping anymore anyway so it doesn't really matter!
Her mood towards me has been hot and cold down since she's been back. I'd like to attribute some of this to the confusion she's facing right now in figuring out how to deal with me.
It's been about 6 weeks since I changed my approach to interacting with her. My mood is always up around her. I don't bring up our problems anymore. I still initiate most of our conversations but she's been more approachable and sometimes starts a few on her own. I still ask her to do things with me or with us (me & the kids) and she almost always refuses but I don't react negatively to the rejection at all, I just keep trying. Mind you, I'm not being a pest. I don't ask her out on dates every day. Maybe about once/week I'll make a suggestion to do something if she seems in an approachable mood.
The reason I think she's confused is because I'm no longer behaving according to the script that she expects. I'm in a great mood all the time. I've dropped a bunch of weight. I've been working out and looking a bit more chiseled. I re-ignited my passion for playing music which has been missing from my life for close to 10 years and I'm doing a lot more "manly" stuff around the house (and soon, outside of the house... I volunteered to be an assistant coach for my son's upcoming flag football league). This is a total 180 for me.
My favorite part about all of this is that I don't really have to fake my good mood most of the time. The "fake it until you make it" mantra seems to have some merit. It seems like once I've gained some momentum it's a lot easier to keep things moving.
On Saturday after dinner I told her that I was trying to secure the dates for a week at the beach with the kids in August (like we have ALWAYS done EVERY August). I told her that I would like "all of us" to go and then asked, "How do you want to handle this?" She looked like she's seen a ghost and then eventually said, "I'm not prepared to answer that right now." So I simply replied, "Ok, well I'm going to make the plans regardless and you can decide later if you want to come with us." We talked about a few other "business meeting" type things and then she went to the bathroom. When she came out it looked like she had been crying.
On Sunday the kids asked her for the 3rd time why she doesn't want to come to church with us. I didn't say anything this time (in the past I helped her out of this awkward conversation) and she didn't have much to say either. The question just kind of "hung out there."
Lately I've been feeling really bad for her. I can tell she's conflicted about the marriage. And even if she IS having second thoughts about leaving, it has to be really hard to deal with those feelings when she's been convincing herself for more than a year now that it's the right decision for her. It's a matter of pride and stubbornness. She's invested so heavily in justifying her current selfish lifestyle based on our marriage history and my behavior over the past 10 years. But now I'm not acting like that anymore. And every once in a while she lets her guard down and I can tell that she still enjoys my company despite what she's told me.
Since my attitude change has only been for 6 weeks I would assume that she just thinks I'm trying to manipulate her into changing her mind. That I'll regress back to my old ways eventually. And that was probably true 6 months ago, but it isn't anymore. I love her very much, but every day I'm getting more comfortable with the idea that I don't need her to be happy. I'm becoming a better man, husband, father. And someone will reap the benefits. Right now I still hope it will be her...
Chris73,
I'm so happy for you, this is awesome:
"I'm becoming a better man, husband, father. And someone will reap the benefits. Right now I still hope it will be her..."
I feel like we are on parallel DB tracks, including (1) awkwardness around any future planning and (2) the questions from the kids about why mom doesn't want to go to church with us...wow...happy that these changes are for YOU and that they are permanent...because they are what you want to be. What about physical contact? Do you guys ever touch each other...or does she treat you like you have cooties?
Gordie. No cooties. I initiate almost all physical contact but most of it is unilateral (my hand on her knee/shoulder, brush against her if we're in the kitchen together, etc.)
Yesterday I asked my wife to buzz my hair with the electric trimmers (she used to do it all the time, then I started doing it myself) and she said ok. She has to put her hands on me for that. Also she's a massage therapist so from time to time if I think she's in the right mood I'll ask her to work on my neck or something.
I read an article about re-establishing trust by asking your spouse for favors that are really easy and guaranteed to get done. So I'm trying that out.
Yesterday when I left for the blues jam, she noticed my new t-shirt and said she liked it. That it "wasn't something I would expect you to wear." Then the kids came over individually to give me hugs and kisses. After I put my daughter down and she ran away I turned to my W and said, "Sorry, you don't get one." She laughed and then I put an arm around her shoulder for a one-armed hug. She reciprocated.
Hi Chris,
You can't go wrong with asking for mercy...especially when you receive mercy, very powerful.
Focusing on yourself and those precious kiddos sounds like it is helping you enormously. Keep up the good work!
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
The dynamic is so interesting lately. W got home last night after the kids were in bed and I had already started listening to a seminar for an online class I'm taking. So she decided to go next door to hang out with the neighbor (that I don't like). I told her to have fun. She came home late.
This morning we are all home because of the snow. Once I had woken up, I walked upstairs to find her in the kitchen in a bad mood. "Ugh, it's not really snowing, it's sleeting. The kids are fighting with each other and I'm tired, I'm going back to bed." I said ok and proceeded to make coffee and breakfast for myself and the kids.
She eventually emerged from the bedroom in a better mood. We were just about finished breakfast so I said, "We saved you some bacon, do you want me to make you some eggs." She said, "I got it hon, you've done enough already." I did a double-take on that statement, but didn't let it show.
The kids eventually ran off to cause havoc in another part of the house, which left us at the table alone together.
(...that's an interesting phrase isn't it? "Alone together?")
She proceeded to tell me that she couldn't fall asleep last night because she and the neighbor had some very long philosophical discussions about life and purpose. She then continued the discussion with me. I tried my best to let her do most of the talking (something I've been very bad at doing for a long time). We didn't talk about "us" per se, but some pretty deep things, with the overall theme being something like, "What is the true meaning of life?" So I said, "Lately I've discovered that the true meaning of life is the journey, not the destination. You need to be happy about where you're going, but you also need to enjoy how you get there. To enjoy what your life is like right now. Not what it was or what it might be in the future."
She agreed. It was a nice moment between us. No tension. It reminded me of what it was like when we were dating.
Chris, I am looking forward to hearing about your progress. This is sounding like you are having some levels of success.
Hi 75Shade. I guess it depends on how you define progress...
Last night after a fun day with the kids, my wife revealed that she had a bit of a breakthrough with regards to her IC. She has a tendency to get completely flustered and lose her $hit when our kids fight and she said that she recently realized that this is because there was never any peace in her house growing up. Her parents were always verbally and physically abusive to each other, to the point that she was NEVER home. So when our kids get loud and fight (even if it just playing) all those feelings come back and she can't handle it.
So I proceeded to validate. To tell her that she should be really proud of herself for sticking with her IC despite how painful the memories are. That there are many people who would just push all of those emotions aside because it's easier. I told her that I was really happy for her.
So then she decided this would be an opportune moment to tell me that she wants to move forward with our separation! Despite the fact that I think we're making some progress in reconnecting and that she acknowledges all the changes I've been making to be a better man and father, she's over it. She says doesn't have another man although I don't really believe her. She just wants to be "on her own" and "not married" anymore.
I validated all of her feelings and then re-stated my stance that I would not move out of the house and abandon my family. I told her that I'm still a married man and separation goes against my principles. Her reply was that the only other choice was to move out and take the kids with her.
This one got to me. I don't want my children to become pawns in some power struggle, but I feel like conceding and leaving the home is the wrong thing to do in so many ways.
It's hard to imagine a person could be so selfish that they would rather uproot their kids from the only home they've ever lived in and move them to some apartment that WE can't afford (let alone her) all because she can't separate her selfishness from the right thing to do. She thinks that because she spends more time taking care of our kids, she should be the one they live with. But I don't agree. Our kids are settled in our house and neighborhood and they just finished a transition to a new school.
So then I said, "You know there IS a third option that you're not considering which is for us to go back to working on the marriage. We'll have to start over. We can't go back to the way things were. We have to learn how to reconnect again."
This didn't inspire her at all, and I didn't think it would.
So then I said, "I'm not going to go into my sale pitch. We obviously have more to discuss, but I'm exhausted and I'm going to bed."
So what do you all think? Am I being unreasonable? Should I move out for the sake of my kids? If we're still married I can't stop her from taking the kids with her if she decided to move. That would devastate them as much as if I moved out. The only difference would be that she'd have to be the "bad guy." But I don't want to start getting into this good guy/bad guy $hit.
This one got to me. I don't want my children to become pawns in some power struggle, but I feel like conceding and leaving the home is the wrong thing to do in so many ways.
Chris73,
Your wife has fired a warning shot. Don't ignore it or dismiss it. See a lawyer as soon as possible.
Do not move out of the house! She wants to leave let her leave. Get joint custody in the separation agreement and you will have them in your house 50% of the time. IMO if you leave you will never get back in that house again.
This one got to me. I don't want my children to become pawns in some power struggle, but I feel like conceding and leaving the home is the wrong thing to do in so many ways.
Chris73,
Your wife has fired a warning shot. Don't ignore it or dismiss it. See a lawyer as soon as possible.
Agree. Lawyer up. I don't think she can take the kids out of the house just because she feels like it. You have rights.
I agree, do not move out. Lawyer up. Make it CLEAR to her that you will not have your kids used as pawns.
Time to show her you grew back a pair...
Stay strong buddy...
No plans to move out and I didn't mince words. It's hard to believe this woman would be so selfish as to uproot her children rather than just move out. I can't even fathom that she'd go through with it. She still hasn't mentioned D specifically, just "separation". Regardless, I will retaining a lawyer by next week.
Supposed to take my son skiing tomorrow and Friday. Have to try to put this mess aside until we get back. Ugh!
Just one more thing, do not believe her, not a word.
Mine said the same thing to me when she was at the pinnacle of her madness. I think thats what scares them most. Taking away the kids takes away the only people that dont really know what she is doing.
At one point she told me, "You have been a class act through this whole thing. Giving me my space, not pressuring me, making significant changes for yourself, supporting me and our kids... but I just want to be on my own. I don't think I'll ever marry again." I felt like saying, of course you won't, you would only eff it up like you did this one.
Yes, don't believe a single word she says. If you says she wants to have an amicable separation, it only means as long as she gets what she wants. She will lie and manipulate (kindness, sex, etc) so be wary.
Chris, I am not saying this to vilify your W, but really do not count on her playing fair and do not rely on her for anything, always have a backup plan ready. At the height of her madness my W would forget stuff, she was running around like a headless chicken. So anything with the kids I had a backup plan and it saved me numerous times. And also if you count on your W, and she fs it up, it will just build more resentment towards her and you will end up feeling bad and upset about it. A contingency plan saves you the hassle...
Thanks Vapo. I'm totally with you on this. I have a very strong family support group. Only my mom knows what's going on but she is only a phone call away and has been helping with our kids since they were born. I have been picking up a lot of the slack around the house and with the kids (as much as I can for being out of the house 12 hours a day). I know my W is letting me do it bc it was one of her major complaints. But it's not 50/50 right now, it's more like 75/25. I don't complain to her about it, but I'm paying attention.
Hmmm, you're taking care of things/kids 75/25. Wow, what an eye opener it will be for her when she has to do 100% when she has them. Assuming joint custody she will have to do 100% of everything for 2 weeks a month. How do you think that will work out for her? Maybe let her have a trial run by just going on vacation, or anywhere, for a week by yourself.
The week vacation is a smart idea.
Money's a bit tight right now. We're recovering from a Disney trip and I just put a deposit on a week at the beach this summer (btw, I invited my W to come with us but told her I would be going with the kids either way).
However, I'm am just about to leave with S8 for 2 days skiing and D5 is staying at my mom's tonight. So my W will come home from work to a completely empty house. Not sure if it will matter. She'll just stay out late and/or have people over to distract her from her own thoughts.
Chris73, if I remember correctly, you have been to the D brink before...right? What made you come back from the brink (was it wanting to stay together until the end of school)...and what is driving you to the brink again? Maybe she still has the end of school time frame in mind? Maybe her target date never changed?
At one point she told me, "You have been a class act through this whole thing. Giving me my space, not pressuring me, making significant changes for yourself, supporting me and our kids... but I just want to be on my own. I don't think I'll ever marry again." I felt like saying, of course you won't, you would only eff it up like you did this one.
How does this make you feel? And instead of saying what you wrote above...you said nothing?
Yes, I said nothing.
Partly because my W is a MUCH better fighter than I am. I can NEVER think of the right thing to say in an argument until after it's over. If I HAVE to start a difficult conversation with her, I have to practice first. So any spontaneous response to that would have either come off as sarcastic or accusatory.
But the other reason is bc I know she's full of $hit. Whether she actually has a steady A partner or is just pretending to be single, the bottom line is that my actions over the past 2 months have scared her. She's expecting me to be a jerk or just leave her alone. I'm doing neither, and it's probably making her feel guilty and/or second guess her decision to exit the marriage. So she's trying to dissuade me. To make me think my efforts are a waste of time.
But like Vapo said, I don't believe a word of it. And I won't be deterred. I'm a married man. And I'm not going anywhere. I will keep fighting. If she wants to divorce me she can. It's really her loss and (if I may be so bold) she will regret it for the rest of her life. Meanwhile my pride will keep me company until I find someone else
You have had a relationship talk. She knows your stance. Maybe she recalled your thoughts. I would avoid bringing up the subject again. Don't rush. As Michelle says she will not be at your pace. And avoid any physical contact. That is like one of Sandi's rules. Don't say "I love you". Build a new relationship.
That's what I have been reading up on.
Oh, believe me. I didn't bring anything up. She initiated the conversation, I listened, validated and re-stated my boundaries (just in case she forgot). I don't avoid physical contact because I think it promotes reconnecting. But I don't initiate anything major. My hand on her shoulder or hip as I walk by, that kind of thing. And as far as taking it slow, I committed to a year on Jan 27th after that, with no progress made I think it will be time to move on...
You don't have to really go on vacation. Just say you are and then stay at your mom's for a week. You wouldn't even have to take off work if you didn't want to. You need a break and she needs to know what she will see that the sunshine and roses she is imagining is bunk.
I love your patience and perseverance.
Journaling my thoughts for a Tuesday morning.
Staying busy:
Weekly and bi-weekly music gigs
Training for 8K on 4/30
Monthly movie podcast
S8 Flag Football begins on Saturday (I'm assistant coach!)
Volunteering to help with RE classes at church
Six Flags opens April 1st (we have season passes)
Last week S8 and I went skiing. It was the PERFECT day. The mountain had just gotten about 18" of new snow 2 days before we went. We stayed at a resort that had a huge indoor waterpark. So it was 48+ hours of father/son bonding... and we BOTH needed it!
As far as my W goes, not much has changed. There have been no more R discussions since she told me she wanted to move forward with separation last week. I have an appt on Friday to get some legal advice.
I'm still making every attempt to reconnect with my W and she's been a bit more obstinate lately. I haven't pursued her romantically in any way, just friendly conversations, being helpful, and occasionally asking for us to do fun things together (to which she almost always rejects me).
I know that she's very aware of the changes I've been making and I'm sure this is causing a conflict for her. Not only am I starting to resemble that guy she fell in love with 12 years ago, but I'm actually improving way beyond that guy. And I can only imagine how this must make her feel:
"Why didn't he do this before? Why does it take the threat of divorce for him to make these changes? These changes will never stick, he'll revert back to his old ways eventually. He's just trying to manipulate me."
Unfortunately, no amount of discussion will help with this. The only way I can resolve these issues in her mind is to be consistent. And of course, the irony is that the more consistent I am with my new behaviors, the less I care if she notices, and the more I feel as if I am making these changes for myself.
When I first came to these boards and read about "detachment" I thought I understood what it meant. But in reality, I wasn't ready to detach. And frankly, I'm still not all the way there. But I'm starting to understand it more.
And I can only imagine how this must make her feel:
"Why didn't he do this before? Why does it take the threat of divorce for him to make these changes? These changes will never stick, he'll revert back to his old ways eventually. He's just trying to manipulate me."
Or maybe, "I hate it when Chris kisses my @ss. I can't wait to see OM2."
Mind reading is a terrible thing.
"Why didn't he do this before? Why does it take the threat of divorce for him to make these changes? These changes will never stick, he'll revert back to his old ways eventually. He's just trying to manipulate me."
Nail on the head. It is just not that easy as we all contribute into the eroding R. We all have our own path to get into these situations and our own paths out. Focusing on what you can control is what's important and that's being the best You.
We stayed at a resort that had a huge indoor waterpark. So it was 48+ hours of father/son bonding... and we BOTH needed it!
GWL? My kids love it when I take them there. Sounds fun.
GWL? My kids love it when I take them there. Sounds fun.
Hey Gordie, actually it was the mammal with 2 humps
We had a blast! I have videos of S8 and me bodyboarding on the FlowRider. Too fun. Can't wait to go back!
My W finally came to her senses and has decided that taking the kids out of our home is a terrible idea. Of course the problem is that she still wants a separation and neither of us are budging on who will move out. We met with a mediator this morning who posed a third solution of "nesting" for 6 months: We sign a short term lease on a one-bedroom apartment and work out a schedule for who stays where throughout the week. Does anyone have experience with this "nesting" arrangement?
Why the change in your W's thinking?
I have no experience with the nesting thing, but it looks like there are some around here who do...though it seems like it is a temporary solution...
Hi Gordie. It's definitely a temporary situation. The mediator is also a psychologist with a specialty in family therapy. She is trying to approach the change in our family dynamic in very small steps so as to have as little impact on the kids as possible. She is also trying to impress upon my W that she should not be in any rush to dissolve the marriage when there is still an open path to reconciliation on the table.
So basically, the in-home separation hasn't changed my W's attitude and she wants more space between us. I have been unwavering in my stance of not leaving my home. So initially she posed the ultimatum of all three of them moving out. Which (obviously) had me in panic mode. When we sat down with the mediator today she said that she thinks uprooting the kids is a bad idea (...despite her fog, she's still thinking like a responsible parent most of the time), which of course put us back into a stalemate again. This is when the mediator suggested the "nesting" idea. I think the idea has some benefits but it also feels like I'm conceding...
Chris - would you be able to stay in another shared apartment where your W is potentially seeing OM? I'd know I would personally have a tough time with that thought...
I know you don't want to disrupt the kids routine and I can appreciate that but at the same time why should you be disrupted? It's not your decision. Let her feel a bit of the impact/consequences of her decision.
Thanks all. I'm going to stand firm on my position that I won't be leaving the house. I always give in. I always concede. But I think this time I finally have more to lose by conceding than if I stood firm. My W is such a better fighter than I am. When she spews it breaks my heart and I turn into a pu$$y. I need to be ok with her being angry with me. I mean what's the worst that could happen? She could move out. It would be devastating for the kids, but part of me would be relieved if she did. I love her, but I don't like who she's become.
I do know people that have done nesting and its challenging. I think it works better when the separation is mutually agreed on and there is even friendship. That's not the case in most sitches. Also if there is an A, it can be stressful to the LBS to wonder if the OP is sleeping in the same bed. The family I knew had a house with the kids and a small apartment, and then they switched off. I admire them for doing it, but I would never be able to handle that. I think it only lasted a year or so and then they found their own places.
I was wondering if you have read the No More Mr Nice Guy material? My H is also a wimpy/pushover kinda guy, and it's been a real struggle for him. The book was like holding up a mirror and forced him to look at himself in a deeper way. It was profound. His Nice Guy issues had a lot to do with why our M fell apart, not having deeper communication, and ultimately what made him vulnerable to the A. He has learned a lot from the book and how to have stronger boundaries.
Blu
Thanks for the insight Blu. And thank you for reminding me about the Nice Guy read. I started it a while ago, but then got caught up in all the relationship and marriage saving books. I've been a pushover all my life and my W is counting on this. If ever there was a time to do something different, I think this is it.
Nice guy here too and am reading through that one as well. As BluWave said, it's a great mirror to look into for the nice guys.
I read it 4 years ago but only read and did not implement and "surprise, surprise" (ala Gomer Pyle) we're back here. It's all about the deeper communication and voicing your opinion even when you're afraid to rock the apple cart.
Chris, I'm making strides on this and if I can do it I'm sure you've got it in you too.
As was mentioned by Blue, since she has been involved with OMs you can't allow these OMs, or future ones, in YOUR house breaking up YOUR family. That is unacceptable in my book. Regardless of which way this goes be sure to include in your separation agreement that under no circumstances can any OM come to your house, let alone spend the night there.
I was wondering if you have read the No More Mr Nice Guy material?
Just got it... Thanks for the tip.
I don't know if any of you are Scandal fans but the latest episode is a classic example of "Mr. Nice guy" being duped as Huck falls victim to a women who totally played him.
Hi All. Hard to believe it's only been 3 weeks since I've last posted. Feels like 3 years have gone by.
Long story short. My marriage is over. My W has convinced me over the past few weeks that she has some serious problems that she needs to work on. Being angry and resentful towards me and focusing all of her energy on leaving our marriage is just another distraction in a long list of distractions (including the affair that I *believe* she is still carrying on) that are keeping her from the mirror work that she needs to do.
Dropping the rope and doing everything I can to avoid being a source of her anger is the only thing left I can do to keep the peace. She wants me to move out, but I've been standing my ground which results in more and more spewing, name calling, and, teeth gritting. And I just can't take it anymore. It's been almost a year since the first BD and I'm starting to have trouble remembering a time when we were happy.
Her alternative to me moving out is that we sell the house and mediate for joint physical custody of the kids. All things considered, that's not the worst deal I've heard lately. But we're still negotiating and trying to be civil to each other under one roof.
For the first time since all this started, I really feel like I'm done. I don't like using the word *hate* but I hate who she's become even though I still love her very much. I really want her to get healthy and be happy again, but right now I don't know if I can ever see us back together.
My kids and trying to reach a fair divorce agreement without spending a fortune are my only two objectives now.
I'll expand on this later. I'm off to catch the train home.
Quick update...
As crazy as it seems, W and I had a pretty amicable discussion this morning. We were able to agree on a few arrangements that will support each of our goals...hers being to end the marriage, mine being to give her more space without comprising my rights to my home and my children... as well as our shared goals of keeping our kids in as stable an environment as possible and keeping costs related to the separation/divorce to a minimum.
Starting with the end of the school year, we've worked out a separation agreement that allows us both to still live in the house but spend certain nights of the week somewhere else. Initially we decided on sharing an apartment, but in addition to the extra money it would cost to rent, sharing that space doesn't really allow us to have a clean break. So instead I will be staying at my mom's house on my off nights and my W will "rent a room from her girlfriend." I put that last bit in quotes bc I don't really believe it. More likely than not, she'll be staying with her OM, but at this point I really don't care so long as she doesn't bring him around my kids.
We've also agreed to separate our incomes and contribute 60/40 to the shared expenses (60 on my end), which I think is very reasonable.
Lastly, although I did not commit to selling our house we agreed to spend the summer making it "market ready" in case we do decide to sell it. The house needs it either way.
We plan to break the news to my parents on Sunday which will be a huge relief for me since I will finally have a support group (other than you folks) since this all started almost a year ago.
This hurts, but not as much as I thought it would. Probably because I feel that things are still being handled fairly and that we're both being reasonable with each other. I struggled for a long time trying to find a balance between not being a doormat and not making her feel like I was being controlling.
It seems like the detachment process is something that just happens. You can help it along or fight against it, but it eventually happens either way. I think I've come to terms with the fact that if my wife and I EVER reconcile it will only be after she's done her own soul searching and decided that she wants to try again. That may never happen, but I think it's a guarantee that it WON'T happen so long as she's distracted with directing all of her anger and resentment at me. Dropping the rope seems easy, but it's VERY hard.
Chris,
Really sorry to hear about the outcome but is is great that you guys are amicable and can agree on somethings.
I also know the feeling of relief that it also can bring.
I read a simple quote the other day that really struct me "no one ever died from divorce"
Stay strong!
On today's agenda...
W and I sit down with my parents to break the news and fill them in on the logistics of the separation. I don't know how it will go, but my wife has already told me that if either of my parents start to talk about reconciliation that she'll just get up and leave. I have no plans to lay blame point fingers. The theme of the conversation will be that we have been trying for a year to come to an agreement about how to move our marriage forward, and we have not been able to. I'm sure the truth will come out once I'm in private conversations with my parents. But it's really important for me that my parents don't disown my wife because of this. They need to be civil towards her in order to maintain a relationship with their grandchildren. This is definitely not where I thought I would be in my life three months before our 10 year wedding anniversary.
Lots of GAL stuff scheduled this week, I'm going to need it!
Why tha fcuk would you want your W with you when you tell YOUR parents? Just so she could spin her own side?
No no no no no my friend. You tell your parents by yourself and she can go and fly a bloody kite!
Actually we really didn't tell them anything specific about the problems in the marriage. We only sat them down to tell them that we were separating and how that was going to change the schedule because they help take care of our kids. I did all the talking, she never said a word.
Still, it seemed like you had a supervised visit and your W did not want your side of the story to come out, she was making sure she wasn't vilified as the bad guy. So in the eyes of your parents (who without a doubt were shocked) this was portraid as a consentual divorce.
Or maybe, "I hate it when Chris kisses my @ss. I can't wait to see OM2."
Mind reading is a terrible thing.
Doodler, you're such a b@stard, in such a good way.
I hope your British neighbours are the type who have enlightened you to our over and very jovial use of the word!
We all do the mind reading though.
Chris, I've just caught up with your sitch, and you've done some really good work, but I can completely understand where you find yourself now.
I'll be watching your 'nesting' arrangement with interest.
I'm in a slightly similar position now - I want to push for S as an in house arrangement isn't working for either of us and W is talking about dating at her Moms at weekends to get the kids used to the idea.
Getting things right for the kids in the best way they can be under the circumstances has to be the focus. I'm sure you'll find a weight taken off you when not having to deal with the anger or just plain confusing and hurtful behaviour on a near daily basis.
Keep on keeping on.
Doodler, you're such a b@stard, in such a good way.
Woke_Up,
Yeah, I guess I might enjoy being a b@stard, just a little.
The one word that you Brits use a lot is "brilliant" (as opposed to "cool"); I like that word a lot. On the other hand, you Brits misspell a bunch of words like "neighbor." It should be "neighbor."
My British neighbor is an English professor and he misspells words all the time. I'm surprised they'd let a foreigner teach English in this country. What do Brits know about English?
I've always been jealous at the way the Brits say "brilliant." I've tried to recreate it but it just sounds like I have a mouth full of marbles. So I've reverted back to "cool."
I'm sure the truth will come out once I'm in private conversations with my parents. But it's really important for me that my parents don't disown my wife because of this. They need to be civil towards her in order to maintain a relationship with their grandchildren.
It is very unfair to your parents to have your WW with you when you break the news. I've been in those shoes, more than once, and parents need to be alone with their adult child when first hearing of this news.
To not expect some type of reaction from either of your parents, much less in front of the one who is causing this pain for their adult child and grandchildren.......is unrealistic of you, IMHO.
Maybe your parents loved your W, but they are not
in-love with her. They have a right to their own emotions. If your child was suffering at the hands of another person.....how would
you feel? You will always take priority in the heart of your parents. No matter how old a person gets, it still hurts the parent to see their child in pain.
They may be very graceful, and suppress dismay over this announcement, IDK. Having privacy to ask you questions and to absorb this information is important. I just think you are being very unfair to them by having your WW there. It's also unfair to say they need to be civil towards her in order to maintain a relationship with their grandchildren. Is that your threat, or your WW's?
Hi Sandi. Thanks for the input. The whole truth is that I had told my mother about our situation in confidence a few months ago and we've had many candid discussions about it. She knows what's going on (who did what, who wants what, etc.) and I kept my dad out of it until I felt comfortable with giving him the news. My dad and I don't have a close relationship.
Regardless, the decision to tell them was motivated mostly by my desire to stop covering for my W and lying to them about the motivations for her behavior over the past 6 months. But it was also to establish what will be happening over the next 6-12 months since they are an integral part of our kids' routine (my Ws side of the family is pretty much MIA other than a few holidays).
Also, I don't think I was clear about my parents being civil to my W. They can choose NOT to be civil and as far as I'm concerned it will have no effect on when/how often they spend time with our kids. I think I was just expressing my fear about what my W might do if they decide to take sides. Right now, I think everyone is being amicable for the sake of our kids. But I don't know how that will change as time goes on...
I miss my wife...
We used to have so much fun together. Every time I see or hear something interesting I want to share it with her. When I think about making plans my mind always includes her in them. She was my partner in fun for so long.
I miss our closeness. She denies that we ever had any, but it's not true. I miss her warm heart and playful spirit. I miss her head on my shoulder. I miss our hugs.
Someone else is enjoying these things now.
This weekend I'm running an 8K race on the boardwalk at the Jersey shore. Months ago my wife and I agreed to make a weekend family trip out of it. Now she's staying home and my mom is coming instead. I'm still psyched for the race, but it hurts...
As much as this last post was full of sorrow and regret, I quickly shifted to anger. Why would someone VOLUNTARILY give up 50% of their time with their kids when they're still so young? I'm not a terrible person. I'm not an addict. I'm not an abuser. In fact, some people think I'm fun, interesting, loyal, attractive, kind, and patient. Not too long ago, my W was one of those people!
...I know, I know. Typical WW/WAW/MLC script. Selfishness above all else. But it just $ucks
Chris,
I get it. I go back and forth from really sad, to just hot angry. It truly does $uck.
Chris, I hear you and feel your anguish and frustration. I myself had been reading these boards, and all of Sandi2's writings on WWs, and couldn't believe that my sweet little wife could possibly be such a creature. But it happens. Selfishness completely takes over and they change. Heck, mine even admits "I'm being selfish". Hard to believe, and disheartening, but it happens... a whole whole whole lot more than I ever would have imagined based on the accounts on this board. But, hey, keep taking care of yourself. Know that God loves you and that you have a lot of support on this board and a lot of people here who understand EXACTLY what you're going through and feeling.
Thanks leahsue and hoosjim!
For the longest time all of my efforts were consumed with my obsession of trying to save my marriage. I've tried everything. So I think this depression and anger thing is happening now because I'm starting to let go and take my wife down from the pedestal I've kept her on through all of this.
As a compliant forum poster, I'm going to wait until this thread gets to 10 pages before starting a new one. But "Same Sitch. New Approach. Feeling Good." hardly describes my circumstances anymore.
I think moving forward my emphasis has to be on me and the kids and there are a few major issues that I'm now focusing on.
1. Starting June 1st our incomes will be separated and we will contribute separately to our expenses.
2. Assuming nothing changes between now and mid-June, we will sit down with the kids and tell them about the separation. W and I will need to work together to discuss how we present the news but I've decided that I'm not going to lie to my kids and tell them that this decision is mutual.
3. I'm working with a financial consultant to determine how feasible it is for me to buy my W out of her share of our house. If I can swing it, it means that my kids won't have to move out and they can continue to live in their home at least 50% of the time.
Chris,
IMO your kids are to young to tell them now. However, I would not lie to them when they are adults.
What is your motive for telling them at such a young age?
I think there has to be a way to tell them the truth without laying blame or getting into details. Something like, "Mom and Dad have been having some disagreements about being married. And since it takes 2 people to make a marriage work, we've decided to spend some time apart." And then follow up with all the normal stuff about this doesn' change anything, we both still love you, we'll both be at your recitals and games, etc.
Has anyone else had to deal with this? What did you do?
One thing in the study that seemed clear: children need their parents to be mature when delivering such painful news. But, parents find accepting responsibility hard to do so, particularly early in the divorce process. Moms and dads feel their hopes lost and dreams gone, and they often avoid reminding themselves of such sorrow. But, when parents bring all the family together, the children benefit from a united message delivered by both parents-children feel less disturbed when parents exhibit this kind of maturity. The research tells us that children prefer a message that avoids parents blaming each other-instead hoping both parents will take ownership of the marriage ending. Doing so can protect children from feeling a) that they caused the divorce or b) that they must align with one parent and reject the other.
Just got back from my weekend at the beach running an 8K. It was really fun and being able to see my kids cheer me on at the beginning of the race was so inspiring. It kept me going! My parents came to help with the kids. Now that they know the sitch they're very supportive and helpful.
The weekend also featured a very interesting exchange with my W. My normal behavior would have been to send her txts and pics before, during, and after the race to let her know how I did. This time I didn't. By 9am (15 minutes after the race was over) she called me asking how I did. I spoke to her for only about a minute and then said, "I've gotta go. I'm trying to round up the kids and get to breakfast. I'll have them call you a little later to say hello." After that her tone completely changed. She sounded disappointed and cold. It was obvious that she was expecting me to tell her much more about the weekend and the race. The kids eventually called her back, but I didn't talk to her again. Total 180 on my part.
I suppose this is what detaching feels like. My fear in doing something like this earlier in the crisis was that I would be contributing to widening the gap between us. These days, it's hard to believe the gap could get any wider! So now I'm making more decisions with my best interests at heart.
Interesting side-note...
Yesterday we arrived home from the beach before my W came home from wherever she went. The house was exactly how we left it on Saturday. Her bed hadn't been slept in. I doubt she ever came home Saturday night. At the very least I'm glad she has enough respect for me to do whatever she's doing these days outside the house.
Congrats on the race. I know a few people who ran it. it was broken down in different distances, right? My friend and her H did the half. I was thinking about attempting it next year.
The fear of widening the gap is there for everyone. making decisions with your best interest at heart does not do that. It helps you create your own happiness.
Thanks Ginger! Yes, the Half is a lofty goal of mine. Maybe next year. I ran the 8K (5 miles) and they also have a 5K the day before. My immediate goal is a 10K, so only 1.2 more miles. That shouldn't be hard. But I need a race deadline as a motivator!
It really was a blast and nice tease for the summer. The kids and I will spend a week there in August. W has no plans to join us, which [censored], but making my plans now without her in mind helps prepare me to enjoy it when it comes.
I've only done 5k's, so an 8k would be a lofty goal of mine. I've got a bad foot.
I was in point pleasant this weekend with my kiddo and some friends. Beautiful weather.
My ex and I split when our daughter was infant. We never had family vacations. I took my D9 when she was 8 to Disney on my own. It was the best vacation ever. Just us, not having to deal with anyone else...... it was just wonderful.
I take her away either on my own, with my dad and his wife, or with friends. There is no stress in it. This might sound kind of mean, but having this vacation without her and just the kids will be much better than if she were to come. You are actually going to enjoy it more. you may long for the OLD wife, but you don't want this one there. Trust me on this one.
Thanks Ginger. That makes a lot of sense. I do get a sense of calm when I know it's just me and my kids. I get to make all the parenting decisions without any debates.
So I'm coming up to a year since the initial BD (EA/PA for 5 months)
Here's where I am today...
-My W and I are becoming more and more disconnected.
-Her fog is getting thicker.
-I am becoming more critical of her selfish actions.
-My trust level is zero. She is still very secretive about who she spends time with.
-She clearly has an OM that she sees regularly.
-I am growing resentful of all the things she has said and done over the past year.
-As I continue to GAL, strengthening physically and emotionally, and placing my kids at the top of my priority list, I am starting to lose respect for her because she's not doing the same.
-I'm starting to fall out of love with her. She's a completely different person than the woman I married. And she hasn't changed for the better.
-I'm no longer fantasizing about being with her physically.
-I look forward to the times when she isn't around, and I'm starting to latch on to the positive aspects of a life without her in it.
For those of you who have reconciled and those who continue to stand for your marriage alone, have you gone through this? How do you cope with it?
Of course Chris. I am about 18 months from this bomb drop and feel quite the same way. I kicked mine out in Oct (though he clearly was wanting me to be the bad guy and do it). I have reached the point where I really don't care. I'd like to resolve the financial part. I don't care about divorce and he is not going to try to take my kids, so that is not an issue.
You may feel better when the nesting begins. I know that not living with him and sped up my healing and my ability to move on in my own life.
Chris,
I just caught up. We came here at the same time to support one another and you helped me a lot. The sadness and anger cycling sounds like a healthy mourning of the death of your m which you loved and tried very hard to save. You are on your own path now, not of your choosing, but it is all yours. Are you getting he help and support you need from friends and family and professionally, if needed? You've been taking care of w so long...now you've got to take care of you...and the kids.
Have you told the kids? How did that go? I also want to be honest with my kids if I ever had that discussion but don't know how to do so.
How are the new living arrangements?
Did you finalize the separation agreement?
What are your next steps from here?
I just read your entire story. Thank you. It's sad that so many of us are here. But it is comforting to know that we are all good thru the same emotions and feelings. Last week I was feeling great in my life. Then by the end of the week I slid down into my anger and got upset at myself because of the backslide. Just when I thought I was making progress. I pushed my WH for an answer and he said no he was absolutely not coming back home. He was tired of my crap. Lol oh if he only looked at himself for once. Anyways it helped me see there is life on the other side of this and to just keep moving forward in my own life.
I just caught up...
Are you getting the help and support you need from friends and family and professionally if needed?
Have you told the kids? How did that go?
How are the new living arrangements?
Did you finalize the separation agreement?
What are your next steps from here?
Hi Gordie (and everyone else on the board). It's been a little over 2 months since I posted here. A lot has changed in those two months, but unfortunately not for the better.
Physical separation started on 6/12. We are taking turns sleeping in the house. Initially we proposed renting an apartment for the times when either of us are not in the house, but this proved to be cost prohibitive (and frankly I didn't like the idea of us sharing TWO different places). So instead I'm staying at my mom's and my W claims to be staying with a female friend. The frequency is generally fair. We have the same amount of time at home with the kids over a two week period. But what isn't really fair to me is the added hassle of living out of duffle bag with personal items in two places. I'm sucking it up for sake of a less traumatic transition with the kids, but I can't see this arrangement lasting more than a few months.
We sat down exclusively with S8 (per the recommendation of the M&F therapist) to explain the situation. W was very aloof about the entire process and fully expected that we would just "wing it" when we talked to him. I, on the other hand, insisted on hashing out the details with the therapist (when do we tell him? where/how do we sit? how to we begin the conversation? who talks first? how do we answer his questions?) which took two sessions. He took the news as well as could have been expected. He's very mature and level-headed, so there was no rage or anger. Just some sadness in his eyes.
To date, we haven't talked to D5 about it. She seems to understand that mom and dad aren't always home every day. But the therapist advised that we let her adapt to the new arrangement and watch her behavior before preemptively giving her bad news to deal with. Can't say I totally agree with this decision, but that's probably because I'm angry and I want my W to take some responsibility for her decision.
Finances have been separated and we're working together to pay off our shared debts. A few months ago, after a lot of spewing, my W insisted that she would only agree to this swapping arrangement if we were "actively working on the divorce mediation." To date, nothing has been discussed. I don't think my W realized how busy summer with two kids can be.
Last week, the M&F therapist met with S8 to talk to him one on one. The result was exactly what I expected. S8 wants more time with me and wants more family time (all 4 of us). I can tell that he's upset about the situation. But so far I have not seen any major change in his behavior.
W and I have had a few dramatic moments since the separation but for the most part, things have been cordial. She's been surprisingly accommodating in some situations where she's volunteered extra nights for me to be home with the kids. I suspect that this may be partly because she really doesn't want to live in our house anymore. But whatever the reason I am more than happy to accept.
My side of the family has been very supportive. Offering emotional and financial help when I need it. I even heard from a couple people on her side of the family who called to see if I was ok and say how sorry they are. I don't press them for information, but the general feeling is that my W isn't saying much to anyone on her side. She basically just tells them that she doesn't want to be married anymore. Perhaps the rest of the details are reserved for her girlfriends and OM, but who knows.
Personally I have good and bad days. The stress of the living arrangement gets to me sometimes, but I'm enjoying my free time and the freedom to do what I want when I'm home. I've taken a pro-active approach to fixing up the house (organizing, repairs, landscape) and I recently turned my office into a meditation space and a vinyl listening room. Setting up the turntable with new speakers was something on my wish-list for a few years now, so I'm psyched that it finally came together.
In moving forward with the assumption that the marriage will not reconcile I've set my ambition on keeping the house. My W would prefer to sell it. She has told me many times how much she hates living there and that she never wanted to buy our house (history rewriting, of course). But my initial research into our situation gives me hope that I will be able to buy her out of her share. I'm not looking to screw her out of money but I think it would be good for the kids to continue to have some stability if/when the divorce progresses. I would live there full time and the kids would live there 50% of the time. Seems like the next logical step anyway. We'll lose money on the house if we sell it, and considering the amount of time and money needed to get the house market ready, selling it isn't realistic right now.
So I really don't know where things are headed next. I spent the last year of my life trying to reconcile my marriage single-handedly. And now that I'm not trying anymore the anger and resentment have taken center stage. I look at my W these days and I don't see anything that I like anymore. She's always been physically beautiful, but she's not attractive to me anymore. Emotionally we're completely disconnected. There have been numerous times in the past two months when I wanted to tell her about things going on in my life (apart from the marriage). Major things like some of the mini-breakthroughs I'm having in therapy, and minor things like my crappy day at work. But I don't share any of that with her now.
So it's all very confusing. As of today I don't really know if I want to reconcile with her. And if I did want to, would it be for the right reasons? Could we ever reconnect and build a relationship better and stronger than the one that failed? Could I ever trust her again? When I try to answer these questions I get stuck because saying "yes" seems a bit delusional, but saying "no" makes me feel like I'm giving up, giving in, and telling her without words that she was right all along.
I want to be able to support my W as she continues down her path. She has a lot of mirror work to do and it's going to be really hard for her when she finally stops distracting herself from the real issues in her life. I've been reading about agape love and often return to the lighthouse story on this board for inspiration. A few months ago I started writing an apology letter, but my anger got the better of me and I never finished it. I should probably do that.
Been listening to a lot of Grateful Dead lately. It's surprising how easily their music can lift me out of my funk. The lyrics to the song Comes a Time are particularly apropos for me right now. So I'll finish my post with them:
Comes a time when the blind man takes your hand, says
"Don't you see? Gotta make it somehow on the dreams you still believe."
Don't give it up, you got an empty cup only love can fill,
Only love can fill.
Been walking all morning went walking all night
I can`t see much difference between the dark and light
And I feel the wind And I taste the rain
Never in my mind to cause so much pain.
From day to day just letting it ride.
You get so far away from how it feels inside.
You can't let go cause you're afraid to fall,
But the day may come when you can't feel at all.
The words come out like an angry stream.
You hear yourself say things you could never mean.
When you cool down you find your mind.
You got a lot of words you've got to stand behind.
Just bumping this because it's lengthy update that I was hoping to get some comments on.
I'm saddened by how far down my thread has dropped in the Newcomers section in just 2 days. There are a lot of people hurting on here.:(
In moving forward with the assumption that the marriage will not reconcile I've set my ambition on keeping the house.
Chris73,
I kept my house and I'm glad I did. It's home to my sons and their beloved animals. I believe keeping the house has provided a sense of stability for the boys amidst the storm of the divorce.
I hope you're able to keep your house.
So I really don't know where things are headed next. I spent the last year of my life trying to reconcile my marriage single-handedly. And now that I'm not trying anymore the anger and resentment have taken center stage. I look at my W these days and I don't see anything that I like anymore. She's always been physically beautiful, but she's not attractive to me anymore. Emotionally we're completely disconnected. There have been numerous times in the past two months when I wanted to tell her about things going on in my life (apart from the marriage). Major things like some of the mini-breakthroughs I'm having in therapy, and minor things like my crappy day at work. But I don't share any of that with her now.
So it's all very confusing. As of today I don't really know if I want to reconcile with her. And if I did want to, would it be for the right reasons? Could we ever reconnect and build a relationship better and stronger than the one that failed? Could I ever trust her again? When I try to answer these questions I get stuck because saying "yes" seems a bit delusional, but saying "no" makes me feel like I'm giving up, giving in, and telling her without words that she was right all along.
I want to be able to support my W as she continues down her path. She has a lot of mirror work to do and it's going to be really hard for her when she finally stops distracting herself from the real issues in her life. I've been reading about agape love and often return to the lighthouse story on this board for inspiration. A few months ago I started writing an apology letter, but my anger got the better of me and I never finished it. I should probably do that.
In some ways you are in a good place. You have given it your all and your W has not done the same. In some ways this should offer you some peace and comfort of mind. (I know in my sitch I remain hopeful because W has reciprocated some degree..so that if she really wants out it it makes it harder for me to see that unless she was cold, mean and distanced).
I am especially impressed that you talk about showing grace towards her. This is a sign of maturity. It [censored] you are in this position but overall when I read your update I see someone who is perhaps sad things are this way but you seem very focused on keeping yourself healthy (and happy) and your kids. If your W wants to come back she can make an effort and it seems like she has an uphill battle to fight. Regardless of what she wants...you express here you will be there for her but perhaps not in romantic love.
Good luck!
Chris73,
Sorry to hear your update.
Separation with nesting sounds really difficult.
You are where you didn't want to be so of course you are going to have good days and bad days.
Your new office sounds awesome!
Why do you want to support your w as she goes down her path?
Why are you writing an apology letter?
Gordie
Why do you want to support your w as she goes down her path? Why are you writing an apology letter?
These are hard questions to answer honestly.
To me "supporting" her means being the lighthouse. I've been very angry with her over the past 2 months. I'm not as detached as I would like to be. I often find myself lost in thought about things she did or said and I have to take the time to snap myself out of it.
But there are times when all of this anger temporarily washes away and I try to see the situation from her perspective. She's having a difficult time right now. She has serious issues that she needs to face but has chosen to distract herself (this time) by running away from the MR. No one can convince her of this fact, not even her IC. If she's ever going to come out of her tunnel it will be on her own. As much as I want to, I know that I can't rescue her. But I'm trying my best to keep my light on so that she can see the path back to safety if/when she chooses to look for it. I don't know if my light can stay on forever, but I'm not ready to turn it off yet.
The apology letter is the very last thing on my list of leaving "no stone unturned". There are a lot of things that I did to contribute to where we are now and I've come to terms with them. I think she would appreciate knowing the details of what I've discovered through my soul searching. I think it would show her that despite everything that's happened, I understand how my actions made her feel.
Maybe write it for you now but don't give it to her until she shows signs of wanting to talk or reflect on the R with you? Otherwise I think the risk is that she will a) see it as pressure or manipulation or b) just not care enough about your thoughts right now to even understand it properly.
Don't rush...you need to know if you're still a lighthouse...but lighthouse don't rush out to sea and tap boats on the shoulder!
Chris73,
If being the lighthouse is what you mean by support, then I understand.
The apology letter? I have mixed feelings about it. If you can send it because you feel you must, okay, but can you do so without expectations?
The apology letter? I have mixed feelings about it. If you can send it because you feel you must, okay, but can you do so without expectations?
Actually, I think I can. In pulling from 3 different sources of advice including MWD and the LRT, the apology letter is encouraged. It's also been encouraged by our M&F counselor (in our 1-on-1 sessions).
But the catch is the "without expectations" part, and that's certainly the key. It's supposed to be written and given without any expectation. You're not supposed to write the letter with the goal of obtaining forgiveness, or even to try to explain yourself and the possible good intentions (or other motivations) you might have had when you did the things you're apologizing for. It's intended to act as a means of validation and empathy. To put in the work of remembering the times when you did something hurtful and recount the experience from the spouse's perspective. The spouse should be able to get to the end of the letter and feel understood.
As far apart as we are right now, I believe I owe this to my W. One of her main complaints about our former relationship is that I didn't take time to understand or see things from her perspective. I started the letter many months ago and then got angry and never went back to it. I plan to finish it this week and then talk it over with my IC before leaving it for W.
I was told my my DB coach to write an apology letter to H. Nothing but validation and owning up to my side of things.
I must admit, that letter is still outstanding from my cast coaching session, which was months ago. I veer between thinking it is right to acknowledge my shortcomings to being angry and thinking that W will use it against me and as justification for her actions.
I do believe it needs careful consideration as it could backfire. It's good you are taking your time.
Chris....read through your sitch for inspiration. I admire you dude, you have hung in there through thick and thin. You are much farther along than I am but the stuff you have went through to keep your family together is amazing. Whatever you decide to realize that this is not all your fault. Every relationship has issues but it takes two people to make it work. I have read the through the nice guy stuff and how to get respect from your W however even if you had done things different you still might be in the same place. I second guess myself all the time and what I could have differently etc. however my W could have done things differently as well.
I know I am rambling a bit however I just want you to know that I admire you and everything you have tried to do.
Just out of curiosity has your W mentioned D recently?
Thanks for your post, Joseph. Sometimes it really helps to BE validated while I'm trying to do all the validating!
These days I'm finding that I'm not as detached as I'd like to be (or thought I was). My emotions fluctuate rapidly throughout the day. GAL stuff keeps me from staying in a funk for too long, but I still spend a lot of time in monkey brain mode dissecting my W's words and actions.
From my perspective it seems like everything with her is an afterthought. For example, my W used to pride herself on obsessing over finding the "perfect" gift for everyone. These days I notice that she just pops on Amazon at the last minute, or forgets entirely.
Her selfishness has taken over and my struggle is trying to step away and watch it happen. I know I have no other option. I can't tell her all the ways she's being selfish. Coming from me she would just laugh in my face and pull even further away. She's still going to IC (has been for over a year now) but I think she still has a long way to go.
Meanwhile, life goes on for the rest of us. Now that our separation is common knowledge, I've had a few conversations with people who offer their support. It's so hard not to throw my wife under the bus, but they usually don't ask for details and I try to be vague. To this day I have only told one person about BD/A/OM1 and the subsequent OM2 that I believe she still continues to see have an EA/PA with.
...although, now that we're separated, is it even considered an affair? It would be for me because I still consider myself to be a married man. But if the marriage is over in her heart, perhaps she thinks dating/sex with other men is ok. I don't know.
Anyway, no there has not been a single mention of divorce since her last spew session back in May. Since then we've had 3 sessions with the M&F counselor, but they've all been focused on our kids. We rarely talk about anything other than parenting logistics.
I have no desire to bring up the topics of divorce or mediation, but the living arrangement we have now can't go on much longer. It was the best option for our kids, but eventually we need to transition into two separate living spaces. There's still a bit of cake eating on her part but I know she's feeling the strain too. Trying to live in two places isn't easy.
The final point to bring up is that she's currently dealing with a cancer scare. So far the testing has not revealed anything malignant. But she's still concerned and has more testing lined up.
Ending this post on a GAL update:
* I have an appt tonight for floatation therapy. I highly recommend it!
* I power washed half the house yesterday. Other half tomorrow.
* I ordered a bunch of stuff to further customize my office into a meditation space.
* Tomorrow is national IPA day and I'm working from home, so I will go out for lunch and have a couple of world class beers.
* I'm off on Friday. Planning a morning trip to a local theme park and riding a few coasters before the crowds show up.
* Saturday I'm going to the Panorama music fest in NYC to see my favorite band Tame Impala
Dude that's awesome...sounds like you have a lot to keep you busy. Your sitch and mine have some similarities but I am not as far down the path as you. My DB coach says my W is in a MLC and most likely there is another man but I have no proof. We have been physically separated for over a month now and she told me on Friday that a D is going to happen. She first told me back on Memorial Day that she wanted one. That is the reason why I asked as it appears to me that saying they want 1 and actually going through with it are 2 completely different things.
Has your W ever given you any indication that she wants to reconcile?
Has your W ever given you any indication that she wants to reconcile?
Unfortunately she has. And I say unfortunately because I still beat myself up about all the bad decisions I made when she was still trying. After she revealed her affair (over a year ago now), she was remorseful. She told me she didn't want to end the marriage or break up the family and that she had a lot of "work" (in the IC sense) to do. Things got better but then got worse and by the end of October she was suggesting that I should move out. Bear in mind that she met OM2 right around this same time.
Most of the people I talk to tell me that there was nothing I could have done. That she had made up her mind a long ago and was just dragging it out and working up the courage to deal with the guilt. But I still regret all the spying, begging, crying, and convincing that I tried to do during the first 3 months after BD. If she was still on the fence, I'm sure my behavior helped to push her to the side of leaving.
I would agree....all of us have issues, no marriage is perfect. some people choose to stay and work through it while others do something like this or just leave like my W and offer no explanation. How much longer do you feel you can go on? Has anything change with the physical separation?
* I have an appt tonight for floatation therapy. I highly recommend it!
Oooh, tell me more about this. I've heard this mentioned here a few times. How does it work? What's it like? Who does it?
Tame Impala? That's AWESOME!
* I have an appt tonight for floatation therapy. I highly recommend it!
Oooh, tell me more about this. I've heard this mentioned here a few times. How does it work? What's it like? Who does it?
Hi Holding. Floatation Therapy is also referred to as a Sensory Deprivation. It involves floating in about a foot of water that is saturated with Epsom salts. The water and the air in the tank are both around 98 degrees. With earplugs in, you get completely undressed, get in the tank and close the door. With no sight, sound, or gravity to distract you, and because your body, the water, and the air are all equal temperatures, you are able to "let go" much easier.
It took me a couple sessions to really let go. I thought I would have some claustrophobia issues, but that wasn't a problem. The real issue is whether or not your mind is racing. At first I thought I was supposed to be doing mindful breathing meditation while I was in there. But the past few times I just let my mind wander and eventually I zone out. Time doesn't really exist in the tank so eventually, when they turn the lights on (after 90 mins) it feels like it's only been about 20. During that time it's hard to tell if you've actually fallen asleep, but if you do it's the best sleep you'll ever have. Plus the magnesium in the Epsom salts is great for body aches.
Tonight will be my 5th or 6th time and I'm now committed to doing it at least once/month. Hopefully you can find a place near you if you want to try it.
How much longer do you feel you can go on? Has anything changed with the physical separation?
It's hard to say. About a month ago I was DONE, but that decision was rooted in anger. Today I find myself still holding out hope. Although I have no delusions that piecing will be easy.
The physical separation has definitely helped because I'm not as anxious as I was when we were both living in the house. I would see her every day and on the nights she worked I would stay up to wait for her to come home (most nights it was several hours after she was done working). Now I only see her in passing. It still hurts but it doesn't last as long.
But the problem for me is that even hinting at the fact that the separation is an improvement over the previous living arrangements makes me feel like I'm going along with her. And I have to resist the urge to remind her that I don't want a divorce.
Just finished my float. I feel like warm butter floating on raft filled with pudding! Seriously, it's such a great reset button. And I will sleep like a baby tonight!!