So, been reading this site all day, going to get the book later.
I have been with my wife for 7 years, married for a bit over 3. We had a wonderful time together and loved each other very much while dating. She accepted my flaws (anxiety and depression) along with my crazy family. We had some issues, she was in grad school for 2 years before the wedding and my anxiety limited my ability to visit her in the big city while I worked on my schooling 2.5 hours away. I also had no car. After she graduates she says that it bothered her and I explained my situation and we moved on. We get married.
Living where I am finishing school together she gets a job that is teaching. Thinking she isn't bringing enough money in she takes a second job. I meanwhile am working part time and taking classes full time. Then I get sick, for a month I had a fever off and on and had to go to the hospital. She was great taking care of me. She did all this while working two jobs she didn't end up enjoying. Because of my illness I don't finish my classes and graduate but I don't want to hold her back from a real science job, so we move to the big city.
There I am terrified to go anywhere, I have lost my support network outside of her. She can't find a job despite many applications. Instead of starting to finish my schooling I take a job that requires the car. I drive on the outskirts of the city and attempt to get over my anxiety. She eventually goes stir crazy and says we need more money and takes a job at a pet store. She's pretty bummed. I try to flip it around and we talk about vet school, you need pet experience to get into most. After some time she gets promoted to asst manager and she wants me to take classes again. I get sick and have to delay, still try to work. Our apartment during this time is in the process of being sold and we lose good landlords for a bad one.
Next my best friend and the person that introduced us loses his father and his fiance kicks him out. We take him in, she says it'll be good to have someone for me. She gets promoted again to manager and finds herself working 50 hours. During this time we have one car and I have to use it for work. She takes the bus, an hour each way. I have a hard time getting over the anxiety and picking her up when I'm able but I try.
Eventually we get a second car, she takes on more responsibilities with a second store and is working 65-70 hours a week. She's exhausted. I try to support her and talk about letting some responsibilities go, but if she is going to work at a pet store with a degree in toxicology she is at least going to win at it. She is very stubborn and if told she can't, she will. Work wears her down, the landlord wears her down, our roommate decides to buy a fixer upper house and offers to take us in for cheap, I can do work on the house to even it out. We talk and I convince her it's a good idea to save money. She seems excited.
School runs into more issues and I have to take more classes. Summer comes and she gets promoted again. Now she has to go to all the stores to fill in and place orders (there's like 20 stores total across 3 states). She is now driving and on the phone and working almost 100 hours a week. I see her wearing down and talk about finding a way out of it. She is unable to be part of life because she works so much. She gets closer to her older boss (both bisexual women) during this time in a way war buddies do. She often tells me we tell her the same things, "why are you working here?". My wife expresses to me that she fears she will have resentment for her working so hard and me working part time while taking class still. I don't listen well, try to get her to work less and I try to pick up more hours (my clients cancel regularly).
She gains weight and begins smoking again which she had stopped before we started dating because I had asked her too. She starts becoming distant in the fall but I didn't notice because she was still working so much. Finally she breaks, "I can't work this job anymore, it's killing me, I don't have a life, I'm contributing nothing to the world". I talk her through it and we decide she should quit. She does and after a week finds a science job. Again she is worried about money. I tell her that the reason we moved into this housing situation is if something happens we don't have to pay rent, he's made that offer to us.
She starts the job, I'm excited. I see her at a set time, we are talking again. We start having date nights, dinners, bowling. Everything seems great. Then the job takes a turn. There's more politics involved that are hard to ignore. She says she's going to leave. Her old boss is telling her to come back. I get upset that she is going back to the place that broke her down, I'm upset her boss is suggesting the idea. She talks and says she can't stay at the science job and wants to make the money and that they've changed how they do things. She is upset that she doesn't think she can handle science jobs anymore (with the rejection and a bad grad school advisor, the politics wear her down).
At this time (January) one of our ferrets passes away. We are both very hurt. I fall into my depression and for the first time tell her I'm having thoughts of suicide. I tell her I can't do it, I know it's selfish but I just have to say something. She shuts down. She's never been great with emotions. Doesn't know what to do. She withdraws more but I don't think much of it, she just changed jobs.
Now to deal with my depression I surround myself with friends and disconnect with video games, I always have. I get off when she gets home but if she is on the phone I keep playing.
Two weeks after talking to her about my depression (end of January/ early Feb) she stays at the work house with her boss and work friend, they have been going out drinking and playing pool more and more often despite my protests. She comes home the next day and on the verge of crying says that she realized she was taking the long way home and she thinks it might be because of our relationship. I get upset, in my depression I blame myself, I wasn't strong. I ask if we should do counseling, something she had refused for herself while being overworked, and she says "I guess".
I set it up for the next day, I don't want to lose her, I am happy with her, we are great together. She goes and we tell her all the issues we've had. She brings up resentment over everything I haven't done (school, not visiting, working less, not picking her up). I get defensive and talk about her working. Again, I wasn't strong and I got upset. We talk after the session and it's fairly productive. Sex begins to dry up.
The second session the therapist explains to me my wife's issues with our relationship. I feel like I'm hearing them for the first time. I say that I'm blindsided, I had no idea. Her response is that that makes her sad, she feels like she's reached out several times. The therapist asks her to try to live int he relationship in the moment for the next week. I learn a lot that session. After my wife says she got nothing from it. I explain that I got a lot, I have a lot to work on to be better. We have sex later and then are snowed in. Things seem pretty good, we talk more and there's crying but I make her laugh while we play games together and shovel snow.
Then she wants to cancel the next appointment, she says it's because of weather and we can reschedule for next week. Valentines comes and goes, I get her a card and chocolate and help her make dinner. She doesn't get anything but we don't always. That Saturday we talk and I get defensive again, can't get out of my own head. I take my ring off and tell her when she's ready to fight to have me put it back on. She goes away crying. I'm ashamed of how I have acted. I can't seem to control my emotions when it comes to the thought of losing her. I am working hard on myself and she is barely trying. I get drunk and write poems to vent. She finds them and gets upset because she can see I'm hurting. I sleep on the couch, she leaves the next morning, writing a note over me until she sees I'm awake and tell me what it says. She's leaving for a few days to get some space. She has a bag. She's balling as she leaves. It's her birthday.
I am distraught, after 5 hours I try to text to see if she's ok. I'm worried she's crashed. No response. I call, phone's off. I am freaking out thinking she's hurt. I text her friends vaguely to see if they've heard from her. No one responds. Call her father, he says she's ok. She texts me soon after that she's safe. I text a couple things and get no reply. The next day I text more, nothing. I call, nothing. I can't stop myself, I want to hear from her. The next day i set up our therapy appointment and tell her the time. She texts that she isn't going to go, it isn't going to change that she is unhappy with our relationship and that she doesn't want to drag it out and hurt both of us. I'm devastated. Call her phone, her work cel phone email her, text. Eventually I call her father who I am friends with. We talk about it as he's somewhat aware. Says to give her some space and see if a dialogue starts. I drive to her families house the next day upset, they have been more family to me than my own. Talk with her mother, they all want her to work this out as they are big proponents of therapy from their own marriage and from what they know nothing is broken. I feel comforted and text her " I love you, I miss you goodnight" at night. I write letters as her mother suggested. I do my best to give her space but it's hard.
Finally one of our rabbits has babies after about 4 days with no contact from her. I send her pictures in the morning then my evening message. I talk to a friend and her father for comfort. That weekend (9 days with her gone) we have a pet emergency and she calls at my 911 text and helps me. I finish and call her back as she asked to let her know it's ok. I ask if we can have lunch sometime. She says she isn't ready. She asks to come get some stuff the next day. I say ok I changed the locks because of an issue we had (I really just wanted some form of control since I can't leave the now empty house [roommate is gone for 8 weeks]), and I have no idea where she is. She says she doesn't want me there. I say I'm not sure I can do that, but we'll see. She sends her family to the house first after they have lunch together. They are upset because she is mad, they don't understand her reasonings. They say she is really hoping I'm not there when she gets there. I leave, start balling, come back and the dad takes me for a drive. I manage to get hope up again, maybe it's just another couple days clothes. She did after all take the letters I had written to her.
Well it was all her clothes, all her shoes, coffee cups, a night stand, checkbook (I immediately think she's signing a lease), the important documents box. Again, devastated. I finally call my mother who I have a rocky relationship with to have someone come over (she lives 4 hours away). We work out that maybe it's ok, I don't know anything for sure, rationalize all the things missing. There are still plenty of more important things like our pets ashes in the house. I still am trapped in the house because of the pets. I go back to texting her the baby rabbbits photos in the morning and "goodnight, I love you" messages at night. Wednesday I text her with the photo that I'm free to talk during X hours the rest of the week when she is ready. She texts me she will call at 5.
I work it up to be ok in my head. I wanted to talk in person but this is better than no contact. The call is worst case scenario. I start it light, "how are you?" "are you eating?" etc... She plays nice then I ask if she's talking to anybody and she says she has a therapist appointment at 6. I ask her how it's going, if she wants me to let her know about the couples one we were seeing. She says she meant what she said. She is done. She can't be with me. She loves me, but is not in love with me. I'm upset. I tell her that I hear what she is saying, but I can't accept throwing away everything we have when nothing is broken. I try to ask what she is really upset about and she just shuts down. She ais she was pissed I reached out to her family. She felt violated. She sounds stone faced. I ask if she's been seeing the therapist or if it's new today. She says she has seen them enough.
My mind goes racing, I hate therapists that throw away marriages. I've seen them before. I know what separations and divorces do to people. Before she goes she tells me when the health insurance goes through at the new (old) job so I can use it to get on depression meds like we had discussed and not pay the therapist a boatload. I thank her and say that I'll wait as long as it takes then hang up and call her father.
Evidentally she told them minutes before she told me what she was doing. They were shocked. They continue to try to gently lean her in the direction of working through it. I told the father she was upset and that I don't want to compromise anything between them. He says it's not her choice and I need to talk to someone who has been through a divorce and a successful marriage (him). He helps a bit. Everyone is telling me to focus on me but I'm just racing through my head.
So that was last night. I sent her a text saying that I loved her and would wait for her but I'm turning my phone off for a few days. I wrote her letters I'll never send because they are angry and painful for me. I write in my journal I just started. I put all the wedding photos in the room in a box and rearrange the bedroom. I have been cleaning the house daily, going to classes working my 19 hours a week. I can't sleep so there's almost 20 hours in a day. Eating makes me feel sick. She's my everything and I don't know what to do. I reached out to several friends last night. One is coming up soon.
This morning, I slowly get up since I can't sleep and find this site. Now everything I read seems to be involving children, which we don't have (we have many pets) and people seem to be living together while working on things. But this site makes me seem hopeful still. I have formulated a go dark plan for the next week. No idea how I'm going to do it. I assume she isn't going to file papers for a while if the insurance goes through on April 1st and she told me about it. While her therapist and boss are wild cards, her family who I've stopped talking to because of her request and the information here has made it clear they are on the side of us coming back together.
So I'm going to get divorce remedy tonight (now), I just wonder if there is really any hope for a strong stubborn WAS who may be going through a MLC of sorts with her giving up her planned career path of science. Am I right to go dark for a while? how long before I should respond if she wants to come get things or talk? What do I say? I've been so emotional and defensive because I'm just so scared.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Made some short term goals today for myself, going out with newer friends tonight, went for a drive, read a help book, wrote in a journal, made another counseling appointment. Still not sleeping enough. There's just so many hours in the day, I don't know what to do with myself since I've been unable to really detach yet.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
So I'm going to get divorce remedy tonight (now), I just wonder if there is really any hope for a strong stubborn WAS who may be going through a MLC of sorts with her giving up her planned career path of science. Am I right to go dark for a while? how long before I should respond if she wants to come get things or talk? What do I say? I've been so emotional and defensive because I'm just so scared.
Hello giftd,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in. The short answer to your question is yes, there is hope.
Take a deep breath. Let's focus on your anxiety and depression for a minute. What kind of professional support have you been receiving for this throughout your marriage? You mentioned that the new health insurance starts on April 1, what will you have access to?
You are at a very fragile point in this relationship and it would be extremely helpful to know what your next move should be. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
She says she was pissed I reached out to her family. She felt violated.
I thank her and say that I'll wait as long as it takes then hang up and call her father.
Are you listening to her?
I sent her a text saying that I loved her and would wait for her
Quit that ASAP. Youre only hurting yourself with those kinds of messages.
I have formulated a go dark plan for the next week. No idea how I'm going to do it.
Why just 1 week?
Also, going dark is good, but you have to be doing something during that time. What are you doing to battle and conquer your own issues besides just going dark?
Sorry you're here. I'm getting divorced soon, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I think your focus, and really your sole focus, should be on your depression and anxiety right now. Get yourself a physical exam with a good doctor, find an IC, get on medication if they recommend it, exercise, GAL, stretch yourself with new things, sleep more, eat right, meditate (I'm a huge, huge advocate), play a lot less video games -- all of it will help. I say this because I don't think you could have the relationship with your W that you want (or that she would want), even if she miraculously returned to your relationship tomorrow, without first battling and overcoming your depression and anxiety. Get that rolling, and you'll start to feel better. Start to feel better, and you'll feel even better, and then you'll really be rolling,and you can start becoming a man only a fool would leave in earnest.
You can do it.
Kaizen- Yes I was listening to her. I wasn't in the right state to not call though. Her family has been there for me throughout the entirety of the marriage and is closer to me than my own family. I have stopped the contact now that I have calmed down.
I have stopped sending her messages even though I obviously want to talk to her. All the readings I've done and people I talk to all say the same things: GAL, deal with anxiety and depression. I'm trying new things. I started yoga, have been bowling several times, went out with some of my friends friends and have a friend coming to stay with me for a week or two.
The reason I say going dark for the next week is that I have to get one of our ferrets to the vet for surgery and it seems selfish to not tell her as she has no idea they are sick. I plan on being matter of fact and as short and to the point as possible. It also makes it a short term goal I can focus on and most likely achieve which should boost my confidence.
I plan on being regular at the gym. I'm scrawny but in decent shape. I hope that it helps to have her see the best looking and acting me whenever I have to go face to face the next time (it's been 13 days now). The gym will also do a lot to help my mood.
I don't know if the insurance is covering me or how I would be able to contribute to it without contacting her and I'm not going to initiate. I have a counselor I see (we went together to her twice) weekly but can't afford to get the full doctors and medication set up without insurance. She has tomorrow off, I expect her to try to talk either then or Wednesday (her other day off) to discuss either financial or animal things. If she asks to get anything else from the house I plan on waiting to reply and then telling her that I'm busy (she doesn't have a key currently).
I am doing my best to realize that this process is slow and may not ever work out how I want. I have to try to focus on my issues and finding who I want to be, what my values are, what I want out of life. It's just hard where everything is so fresh and new. Hearing that she loves me, but isn't in love with me sends my mind racing. Somehow she lost the intimacy over the last 2 years. I just want to put my real best self out there for her to see and hope she gets that feeling back.
I see the frantic bargaining and reasoning I've done during the early days only leaves me looking desperate (which I kinda am) and unattractive.
I appreciate everyone's posts. Insight and other points of view are good to hear.
So today I was feeling terrible. Mornings are the hardest, just waking up and she's not there I can't get back to sleep and I know I'm not getting enough.
Stayed at a new friends house and when I got home I went to put on netflix and saw she was using our account for the first time since she left. I had assumed she started her own account to just rush through separating our lives because she gets gung ho about some decisions she makes. This is something we would use everyday, we both use noise to sleep. I know I shouldn't look into things and have to detach but it gives me some hope. Made me feel like maybe she's finally starting to calm down, stop being angry. Maybe even remember some good things watching a show we used to.
I am 100% sure I shouldn't read into it but I'm going to and use this boost to hopefully take a nap.
Managed to get a decent nap using what I felt was good news. Turns out she used it at 3 in the morning today which means she went out drinking with her boss. Pretty bummed, I had hoped that since she had today off she was feeling a bit better and maybe would reach out, not that I could reply anyways.
Finally got the Divorce Remedy book. Holy [censored] I love part 2 #5. I feel leagues better after reading this part and the following pages. She is dealing with a lot and I have work to do. Staying positive is incredibly hard. This reading is so uplifting and the positive rational thoughts bring me peace. Yoga, something I've been told to try before but never really gave a chance, has been great at helping me find some quiet in my mind. I smiled today reading.
Emotional roller coaster still. Can't detach for extended periods. Attempted to make plans with someone to get out of the house, we'll see if they can make it. Taking one of our animals to the vet tomorrow. I plan on putting a photo of us there on facebook so her friends and family see it as I won't initiate contact and she hasn't. Dunno if this is something I should go directly to her with. If they need surgery I will. Counseling tomorrow as well before work. After finishing the book I have some questions for the counselor but I think she's "marriage positive".
Emotional roller coaster still. Can't detach for extended periods. Attempted to make plans with someone to get out of the house, we'll see if they can make it. Taking one of our animals to the vet tomorrow. I plan on putting a photo of us there on facebook so her friends and family see it as I won't initiate contact and she hasn't. Dunno if this is something I should go directly to her with. If they need surgery I will. Counseling tomorrow as well before work. After finishing the book I have some questions for the counselor but I think she's "marriage positive".
Hi giftd,
I'm glad you are reading DR and finding it helpful.
Hopefully your IC is "marriage positive" as you put it. Even so, the strategies your IC may suggest could be different than DR. Many of our clients work with both their IC and a Divorce Busting Telephone Coach.
It would be extremely helpful to know what your next move should be. Please call me to discuss our program at 303-444-7004.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Unfortunately I don't have the money to set up a call. My counselor today knows of Michelle's work and has heard her speak at a conference before. She likes her ideas and was very receptive to my plan today.
I took our ferret to the vet today because she's having a normal health problem for ferrets. Usually my wife would be the one to take them so it's a bit of a 180 for me to just do it. I called her personal phone while she was at work to leave a message that I was taking her in. I didn't want to initiate but after talking to some people they are basically our children so I had to.
I'll make myself unavailable later and call/text back on my time (not take too long because it's important still).
She called back after I left a message. Went to voicemail, something I've never set up on this phone because I was avoiding talking to certain people. Called her back later on (hour and a half after she called) because I went to a movie on my own, something I've also never done before. Kept my answers short and to the point but not rude and on the topic of our ferret. I ended the conversation saying I was going to bed. Sent her the pictures of the forms like she asked. She texted back that something on them was wrong which might be important to them and said thanks.
Small things that are positive: She called back, not texted. Answered when I called. Said thank you. I ended the conversation and didn't drag it on while being as upbeat as i could in my voice without sounding fake.
Texted after setting up the surgery for the ferret we had decided upon. She is going to pick it up and I'll drop it off in the morning. Hoping that this leads to a face to face meeting for what would be the first time in almost a month. Going dark again now that that is taken care of.
Saw on the news Ben Affleck and Jennifer Garner are deciding to call off the divorce while they work on things. This makes me happy inside for my own situation.
Her Father called yesterday, he said he talked to her and she agreed it was ok. He picked up my spirits a lot when I was having a hard time getting out of my head. Told me he hopes she realizes that she has to face her life's turns head on and not take them out on our marriage. He thinks it's worth saving and that I have a real chance. I've had a positive interaction over the phone and through text now and shown the first of my 180s. No interaction expected until wednesday when we will have to meet to exchange the ferret from after she picks her up from surgery. By that time it will be the first time I've seen her in almost a month. Hoping her running and cutting me off this hard is because she knows she has feelings. Going to not wear my hat (always wear one) and try some better fitting jeans. Nothing too extreme but things she'll notice. Gonna be a long few days.
giftd,
It sounds like you've got a good father in law.
A few years ago my ferret ate one of my son's Nerf bullets and he had to have surgery. He was near death after two surgeries; he was skin and bones afterward. Now, he's a chubby little monster.
Unfortunately I don't have the money to set up a call. My counselor today knows of Michelle's work and has heard her speak at a conference before. She likes her ideas and was very receptive to my plan today.
I took our ferret to the vet today because she's having a normal health problem for ferrets. Usually my wife would be the one to take them so it's a bit of a 180 for me to just do it. I called her personal phone while she was at work to leave a message that I was taking her in. I didn't want to initiate but after talking to some people they are basically our children so I had to.
I'll make myself unavailable later and call/text back on my time (not take too long because it's important still).
Hello giftd,
I'm glad your counselor has seen Michele and is aware of her ideas/strategies.
Best of luck to your furry family member on the upcoming surgery!
You mentioned that you didn't have the money to speak with a DB Coach. Please give me a call at 303-444-7004 so we can talk about options.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Warning: This post is more about my situation than yours, but I thought you might be able to relate to my situation, and feel something positive from reading about it. I have also peppered some advice in here for you.
Your story has a lot of similarities to mine. I also suffer from anxiety and depression. I suffered depression until I met my wife 10 years ago. Then my depression turned into anxiety (which was mostly mild until I had to travel out of town). When she left, my anxiety turned into depression again. Mornings are also hardest for me. You said you are scrawny. So am I. I suspect my depression is hardest in the mornings because of low blood sugar, which I suspect is caused by not eating enough, coupled with the fact that one doesn't eat during the night while they are sleeping, and coupled with the fact that I have very little fat on my body to act as a sugar reserve. I have found the greatest cure for my depression/anxiety is eating enough and exercising. Also, controlling my thoughts are important. There is a direct correlation to what I'm thinking and how I feel. Also, observe how you feel after doing certain things. If you feel sad after listening to certain music, you probably shouldn't listen to that music. If you feel sad when you see a picture of your wife, you should probably avoid pictures of your wife. If you feel happy when you get out of the house, you should probably get out of the house more.
I lift weights. I am unsure about cardio because of its ability to burn precious calories, but I think it is good for me to do from time to time. I suspect that it is probably good to do cardio, because it will likely make you hungrier, making up for caloric loss to exercise.
I am also agoraphobic, like you. Travelling, which I almost always did only with my wife, would often make me very nervous, especially in the earlier part of the day. On occasion, I would have out-right panic attacks, and would need to get out of the car and walk around (eating would have likely been the #1 thing I needed). I believe that my anxiety was the main reason she left. I think she saw me as her ball and chain. I desired to go out a lot less than she did. It's a shame, because my weight was higher than it had been in years, and my anxiety was the best it had been in years, during the last several months of our being together. We actually had an anniversary trip right before she dropped the bomb, in which my anxiety was almost non-existent, where we went to the capital city of our state, which makes me a lot more nervous than a small town. Yet, she still found a small thing to complain about how I performed on that trip, even though it was the best I had ever done with her. But by that point, she was just looking for reasons to be dissatisfied with me, likely because she had fallen for the OM co-worker, who I warned her about becoming too close to. I always warned her about her attempts at having male friends. She doesn't seem to understand how attraction can form through acquaintance.
I also use my Netflix account to spy on her, as well as Steam and Facebook Messenger. Despite the fact that she appears to be seeing another guy, and actually left me for him, and at the very least had an emotional affair with him while she was still with me, I still have not changed the Netflix password on her, nor taken away her Sirius in her car, that I gift to her a year's worth every Christmas. I'm trying not to let her know that I'm mad, that I know things that she may not know that I know. I don't want them to hide their activity any more than they do.
People are giving you good relationship advice. I'm still trying to figure out all of that, myself, but what they are saying is on par with the philosophy of Divorce Busting. So, I don't really have anything to add about that.
I appreciate your story and yes, I can relate to a lot of the issues you are saying. My friends are great, but the timing is terrible where I am just here alone. Getting out to see a friends friend and talking to anyone who will listen has helped. Yoga actually is the best thing to get out of my own head. Something new I've learned.
I had a regression today and texted her to ask for the title to the old junk car we have in the driveway. This is something that we had both tried to sell and she got frustrated it is still there a year later. I believe she puts that on me despite her taking over the project but it doesn't matter.
Her father last night gave me a pep talk, basically saying that he thinks she is putting her life not being where she thought it would be on me and the marriage and that I shouldn't give up. He mentioned that selling the car might be a good thing to get her attention. He doesn't really know the DB way and I had planned on going dark until Wednesday but the talk convinced me to text to ask for the title so I can finish getting rid of it. She is bringing it in the morning but did not give a time, I don't know if she is planning to drop it in the mailbox or what but I need her to sign the bill of sale so she'll have to see me either way. I plan to be up and dressed in my more "adult" clothes (better fitting jeans and t shirt since everything I wear is more college-baggy). I really wanted to go dark, but he said he worries about her putting up walls if I lose too much momentum which is something the DB way concerns me with as well (just because of who she is). He also is putting a lot of faith in me and I think is trying to give me tips based on what he is hearing from her. Felt good that he believes in me enough to do that so I take it seriously.
Hopefully the interaction is good and will carry me over until Wednesday. Upbeat, positive, not talking about the relationship or the future.
While I was writing, my friend who owns the house we have been staying in and I have been working on told me that she texted him asking about rent. He said because of the work I did on the house it's taken care of (he's also giving me a portion of the money from the upcoming sale). She wants to meet him and talk when he gets back next week. She said that he gets 12 free "c*nt punches". He thinks that's a good thing, like maybe she thinks she made a mistake. I'm trying to not believe that because it's not the DB way and it would be a pretty big defeat to have it be wrong. I know he's on "our side" and has talked me through the past weeks. I don't want to coach him, but I have been talking to him about my plan of attack so he can hold me to it. So I probably should at least reiterate that she cannot know about DB.
So I got up early to get looking my best. Didn't hear from her all morning. At 11AM she texts me and says she just dropped the car title (for the one we are junking) in the mail box. I am annoyed but I calm down, I really was hoping to have a face to face. I say that she needs to sign the bill of sale. She replies with "Just sign it for me". I don't want to forge the signature and I don't want to let her off the hook that easy. I call my friend to talk and he says to just calm down and make a short text saying that I will take care of it. While I'm talking she texts "Are they coming today?". Obviously I needed it in the morning to set it up before I went to work, there's no time now. I send the message "don't worry I'll take care of it. Hoping to have it gone by Monday".
I'm so frustrated by the fact that after 3 weeks she still is avoiding seeing me in person. I want to just yell. If she has such strong feelings of anger I'd understand, but she had seemed to have calmed down. If it's guilt then I don't understand. Does she think there's more we could do? I've given her no reason to think it will be some explosive confrontation. It just feels like she is trying to run and purge me from her life until she convinces herself there's nothing there.
Just can't detach throughout this process. I know I'm supposed to.
giftd, can you put a timeline of events for us on your signature? My Stuff -> Edit Profile
I'm so frustrated by the fact that after 3 weeks she still is avoiding seeing me in person. I want to just yell. If she has such strong feelings of anger I'd understand, but she had seemed to have calmed down. If it's guilt then I don't understand. Does she think there's more we could do? I've given her no reason to think it will be some explosive confrontation. It just feels like she is trying to run and purge me from her life until she convinces herself there's nothing there.
Mine was like that for the almost 2.5 years from BD to divorce.
I've felt like my wife was running away while trying to convince herself that leaving me was the right thing to do. I have felt like she won't see me because she either has feelings for me that she doesn't want to feel, or seeing me makes her feel guilty, or both. I've also felt like she had a side of her that was for me and a side that was against me, and the whole time she's been in a rush to kill the side of herself that wants to come back to me. Which is why she needed to listen to angry, breakup music, and come up with a laundry list of reasons why I was a bad husband, and rush to get everything ended with me. I also think she is likely rushing to be with OM.
Thankfully we have animals which she cares very much about because there aren't kids to help her think it through.
Weekend was ok. Friend came over Friday night and is leaving today. Managed to go see a movie, get a haircut, played some games (first time in a month) and was able to disconnect without withdrawing. Went to the bar my wife and I used to go to, talked to the bartender who asked if my wife was coming too. I said she was working late and would probably be too tired. Made me feel better that she still isn't comfortable telling people, dunno why. Biggest problem was that a song we used to enjoy came on, cut pretty deep.
Also had a regression. Looked on netflix and saw that she watched a couple episodes of a show we used to watch. Saw it was at 6:45pm (she never goes to bed that early) and it was at her bosses house who she may be having an emotional or more affair with.
I know there are reasonable explanations for her being there from general couch surfing to the fact that one of them usually has to work in Mass instead of Maine and her boss has a cat so maybe she was watching the cat. But obviously my mind goes to the worst. Dunno how to detach from that.
Big storm coming this week, roommate is supposed to be home before but may get delayed until Wednesday night. Hoping the storm doesn't interrupt the ferret surgery and the interaction that would come from it. I really want a face to face and for it to go well enough to build on, leave her thinking. Friend is still supposed to talk to her this week after he gets back. He is going to tell her what his ex-fiance who left him for ILYB has said to him (regret, I was dealing with other things, I still love you).
Read sa"I love you but I'm not in love with you" - by Andrew G. Marshall. Book helped me see her side a bit better and also gave me hope that she'll figure it out and we can get her that feeling back. Actions > words. Wish I could get her to read this book but that's not the plan yet. Gotta keep on going.
Thanks for talking everyone, hope you are all doing ok.
it was at her bosses house w
Wait, what?
She was at her bosses house when she watched Netflix on Saturday night. Her boss is a lesbian and like 16 years older. They have become war buddies and close friends because of work and was part of the reason my wife left her new job to go back to the old one she hated. Just goes around and around in my head. Counselor tried to prepare me that whatever connection they have may have to fall off before she is ready to really recommit. Supposedly nothing is going on though but it makes it seriously harder to be patient and stay dark.
Had to reschedule the ferret surgery to next Wednesday because her schedule changed. She thanked me for coordinating. I'm trying to enjoy these small victories and positive interactions but it's hard to leave it at that.
Came home, stuck in my head all day. Sold the junk car. Started thinking that she probably has taken the phone off my account. Found out she has. This hurt so much. I felt so gutted, still do. Just being purged from her life after such a short period of time like I'm part of her wardrobe.
Talked to my friend who's now coming back Wednesday night because of the storm. He's setting up the meeting with her she asked for. Going to ask her her side, hope she vents and opens up. He's bringing a letter his ex-fiance sent him saying that ending their relationship was her biggest regret in life because she projected her issues onto the relationship. I'm not telling him to do it, he wants to. He introduced us, was the best man at the wedding. He thinks that she is making a mistake and wants her to know that separation, divorce, doesn't have a happier ending.
If you are together for as long as we have been, ILYB isn't enough of a reason to leave and run away. There's always more options. Those feelings of "in love" are being crushed by the cruddy time we've had lately and a couple of fixable issues like our jobs and time spent together. To let herself turn these into resentment and refuse to work on it shows that she can't be happy in any long term relationship. I am working on me, trying my best to push through. I've found myself stronger than I ever imagined and happier with my life when I am able to detach even the slightest.
The only thing missing is her.
I can't chase, I can't shake her and tell her she's not seeing things how they really are, I can't get angry at her. I admire her bravery for doing this and abhor her stupidity for thinking it would actually help. I know how stubborn she is on her decisions, but I also know that shes capable of saying she was wrong. This push pull is unbearable in my head. Just can't detach, too many hours in the day.
Just can't detach, too many hours in the day.
Weekends are the absolute worst to me right now, because I have lost interest in everything that doesn't involve my wife. I do like socializing now though. Helps me not to miss her.
He thinks that she is making a mistake and wants her to know that separation, divorce, doesn't have a happier ending.
So, really this is pursuing and pushing from someone else, no? And she will see it as directed by you. What is to be gained?
This push pull is unbearable in my head. Just can't detach, too many hours in the day
Right there with you. It took me a LONG time to cross that bridge and see the light for what it truly is. One of the things that helped me most was the gym...and the punching bag. Many, many hours of exercise and hitting the bag. Did it solve my problem? No, because I didn't have a problem. It allowed me to carve out time where I emptied my mind and frustrations...and led me to realize that none of this was my fault.
He thinks that she is making a mistake and wants her to know that separation, divorce, doesn't have a happier ending.
So, really this is pursuing and pushing from someone else, no? And she will see it as directed by you. What is to be gained?
You are probably right. She initiated contact with him to talk though and she has to know that he feels this way after his experience with his fiance. The way my wife works is that she makes a decision and goes with it. Blinders on, full speed. Planting that seed and having her hear it (that she isn't dealing with the real issues) will replay over in her head and eventually she will really ask herself if she is. I cannot be the one to say it and have not asked anyone else to because I'm sure she will think it's directed from me. Him reading her a letter from his ex, two years later, saying she took her problems and transposed them onto the relationship and it's her biggest regret; I dunno if it's right for me to let him or not, but she needs to hear it.
I think this is one of those things in the book where "you know your spouse best" comes into play. But I guess I'll find out.
Today's snowstorm is going to make for a long day
On the way home from work tonight her farther called to talk. I'm trying to be upbeat because she's talking to our friend, my best friend, tomorrow and she initiated the conversation. He's very reasonable and his words carry weight with both of us. Her father just talks about our day, just checking in. Then I get the mail and there's a change of address confirmation letter.
Broken all over again.
I'm working hard on myself, trying to detach, trying to do it for me because I want to be better. But these little things creeping in every time I get optimistic is such a set back. Her father said he had no idea she was doing that. He knows where she has been staying and that it is temporary, no lease as far as he knows. He's frustrated because her completely avoiding me (I'm initiating no conversations that aren't necessary for the animals at this point) is both selfish and childish. It seems like she is running from everything in her life, there's no real reasoning other than small resentments over time make her feel like she loves me but isn't "in love" with me.
I know how she works, but this isn't like her to just run from problems. I'm worried that if I do nothing it will just continue on this path until she reaches the point of no return in her mind like she has in the past with other things. I understand she's scared, needs time, but cutting these small ties (phone, netflix, mailing address) is maddening. If the conversation tomorrow doesn't go well her father has said he wants to says some things when he talks to her again this weekend. He's been supportive to her without directly supporting her decision (said he gave her some options for living arrangements that don't result in a long term lease). I told him that's his decision, I'm not asking, I appreciate his advice for me since he's been divorced once before. He said she has some things she needs to hear, he just has been waiting for her to figure it out herself. Going on a month now, he's thinking it's time he says something.
I'm worried her talking to our friend (he's more my friend, introduced us and was best man at the wedding), and her father saying something will drive her further away. It's their decisions, maybe she needs to hear what they have to say. I don't know exactly what they are going to say. Just know that they "believe in us". Maybe her hearing what they have to say will get her thinking, as far as I know she's diving into her work to avoid things.
Going in tomorrow to finalize my application for graduation. Gonna be a long day...
I've been there. The confirmation letter on change of address. Taking the cell phone off the account. Even opening a new checking account. Each one is a little stab to the heart.
Just know none of those things are permanent. 1-2 months after doing those things, my W is slowly moving back into reality. Way too early to think about reconciliation but she's at least thinking about "us" and acting more how she used to than the alien she became.
So those things do hurt. Just don't focus on it. Keep working on you and worry about what you can control.
Maybe her hearing what they have to say will get her thinking, .
I would not put any eggs in that basket, sir.
I've been there. The confirmation letter on change of address. Taking the cell phone off the account. Even opening a new checking account. Each one is a little stab to the heart.
Just know none of those things are permanent. 1-2 months after doing those things, my W is slowly moving back into reality. Way too early to think about reconciliation but she's at least thinking about "us" and acting more how she used to than the alien she became.
So those things do hurt. Just don't focus on it. Keep working on you and worry about what you can control.
Thanks for telling me this. A month is a long time, but I'm trying to remember that there isn't really a timeline. She will run until she runs out of breath and when she stops to breath she'll finally start to think.
She will run until she runs out of breath and when she stops to breath she'll finally start to think.
I like that. I don't know whether my wife will come back to me when she comes to her senses, but I wonder whether she will at least apologize. I miss that sweet apologetic wife that I had. She has really morphed into a monster.
So my friend/roommate talked to her on Thursday (2 days ago). They talked for about 4 hours. The first 20 minutes were awkward, her wall was up and it's a hard subject to bring up. He was worried I would be upset because he didn't make more progress, but he had a productive 4 hour conversation where she listened. I was happy.
She started by saying that he can call her "$h**bag #2" if he wants. Which his ex fiance who did this to him is #1. He said no, you are my friend. Then like we had talked about he asked her side of the story, listened, and acknowledged her feelings. Used a "2 minute rule" where one person would talk for 2 minutes and the other person had to just listen until time was up.
She was defensive at first and loosened up as it went along. Wasn't wearing her ring. This hurts but I had prepared for it. She is still running, still wants to come get more of her stuff soon. He said she has a perception of me right now and who I am, what my limits are. He very deftly combatted these with examples both from the past and things I'm working on while acknowledging that some things I've done or haven't done were legit grievances, but ones that are fixable. I've talked to him ad nauseum about the books I've read and he presented himself as a neutral third party with our best interests at heart. He made clear he thinks we should be together but can use the time apart to work on ourselves.
She likes her job, the one she told me she hated and broke down crying about, and resents the fact that I hate she works there. He said that he thought she hated it there, he assumes that I think she does as well because she called it derogatory names and complained before cutting ties with it for 3 months. She wasn't seeing how she was painting it to everyone else. Her other resentments are both legit and from a distorted picture from the anger she is feeling, but the point he got across is that nto feeling "in love", is understandable while you are feeling this way. But what is she doing to deal with her resentments? She has given up all her coping activities because she's too tired from work. Not finding a way to forgive and look forward means she'll never have a relationship work.
She doesn't like who she is right now. This is something I've assumed, but it's nice she said it out loud to someone. She is going to counseling and asked if I was. She asked how I was doing and he gave vague answers while playing up that I'm doing work on myself and making changes. He said if she really wants to know she should ask me herself. She is scared to talk to me, to see me. She thinks I'm going to hurt her or myself because of my depression. She really doesn't understand it. He actually yelled at her for leaving and using my depressed feelings as part of the excuse. To tell someone that you are at rock bottom emotionally, that you aren't sure if living or dying is better, is hard to do. And it was something that she didn't handle at all. I feel like I shouldn't have told her, but in reality if we are in a relationship I should be able to tell her those things. She admitted she didn't handle it well and apologized to him, he said to say it to me.
She thinks that my friend should try getting back together with his ex-fiance who kicked him out without a real reason. He read my wife the letter his ex wrote saying she regretted everything. She wasn't dealing with her problems and put them onto the relationship. He said replace the names and it sounds awful familiar. She heard that, she cried. She has stated that she isn't in a relationship, doesn't want to be, wants to be alone for the next 2-3 years, maybe forever (sounds dramatic right?). She also told him where she is staying (not with her boss, she's at the work apartment) and that he can tell me about the conversation.
So while nothing was necessarily resolved during this talk, I am motivated by the discussion. I know her, the ideas will rattle around and replay. Mood swings may come depending on the day. He's going to try to setup another meeting for lunch or dinner on Sunday as he leaves on Monday for another month and hopes to be the person she can talk to and get thinking. I hope she lets him as she hasn't been talking to any of her friends. I know the road is long still, but while she's still running, this will slow her down. I still have to see her on Wednesday for the rescheduled ferret surgery (she's picking it up after since I have class). This will be the first face to face since 2/19. Being the best me I can without overdoing it, not wearing my hat will make her take notice (It's a coping mechanism for my anxiety, never leave the house without a hat on). Stay with the plan...
Honey
Believe nothing she says to you and certainly nothing said in Chinese whispers. It is just fit for the compost heap.
I am not keen on your WW creating these types of conversations with any non professional third party in this way.
Smells of the rot of manipulation, could lead you in the wrong way altogether. Control by the back door and oh so lacking in marital confidentiality.
In addition how does this work on YOU?
Just sayin
V
The term for it is triangulation.
V
Honey
Believe nothing she says to you and certainly nothing said in Chinese whispers. It is just fit for the compost heap.
I am not keen on your WW creating these types of conversations with any non professional third party in this way.
Smells of the rot of manipulation, could lead you in the wrong way altogether. Control by the back door and oh so lacking in marital confidentiality.
In addition how does this work on YOU?
Just sayin
V
Please don't call me honey.
This doesn't work on me, but it does give my running mind some comfort even if it is lies which allows me to better focus. I am aware of the rule to not take what she says at face value. At this point she is a WAW not a wayward wife, and until shown otherwise I will believe it because I need to to work on myself. I am working hard on the things I can and realize I am not the bad guy in this situation. She isn't looking for control over me, she quite frankly wants to be as far away from me as she can right now. Anything I can have help slow her down I'll accept, but I won't ask for it.
Met her yesterday face to face for the first time in over a month. She brought the ferret over after the surgery with the intention of packing some tings and talking some. I stayed as upbeat as possible and tried to avoid talking about the relationship. Said I would rather talk about it with a counselor there, when she asked why I said I wanted to make sure the things I said were heard and vice-versa. She at one point asked for a key and I said no. She's welcome to come see the animals anytime I'm home but I have to live there and I can't be worrying about what she is going to take from the house.
Talking while packing was hard on both of us, she baited me into talking about the relationship more than I wanted. Told me she's splitting her time between a friends house and the work apartment. She said she's seeing a counselor once every other week. I asked if her counselor has told her to do anything (shouldn't have) and she said "Well, kind of. She makes suggestions to challenge my thinking". This is a huge red flag for me. She said that she is working on "leading her life the way she wants and not the way she thinks others want her to". This hurt. She said that I was a part of that. I know it's wrong. I've been supportive of all her decisions but going back to her old job. She now says that she loves the job and hates that people minimalize it.
Talked briefly to my counselor and it just sounds more and more like a mid life crisis. Kills me because I know that there's even less control over that situation. I'm working hard on myself but she has to go see the grass isn't greener before she could come back. She did mention that she has some things that she wants to save for counseling (implied it would be with me) which is a good thing if she is actually telling the truth. She's made it clear she doesn't want to hurt me and giving that carrot isn't something she would do if she wanted to close me out completely. She also talked of being friends. Getting food was brought up and then she changed her mind, hesitated, said "maybe.... no... maybe next week."
The best part of this meeting was that I didn't get upset until after she left. Looking into her eyes I was able to see the pupils dialate, the glisten was there. She still loves me, she can't hide it, maybe that's why she can't be around me yet. Whenever something became too much I just looked in her eyes. She's still trying to bury it. Every time she gives me an excuse it's under the guise of ILYB and the reason why she's not "in love" changes depending on the day. I'm convinced there isn't anyone else, she is determined to be on her own.
She wants to get her stuff to keep me from having to see it everyday. I told her I have to go slow, I'm in no mood to rush any of this, she agreed but got mad when I told her I was done with her taking stuff for the day. She said she wanted to talk next week. I assume it's to get more stuff, not sure if I want to let that happen yet, I'll talk to my counselor about it. This is the first real step, getting her to talk. Need to keep working on me, try to focus on what i can control and push the thoughts of what I can't out of my head. It's hard knowing the journey is so long and everything to this point was to get to step one. It's worth it to me though. "The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step."
I've noticed something about you since the first few posts of yours. You seem to be calmer, stronger, and wiser. You sounded a little wimpy in the early posts, but I don't get that from you now. That is inspirational to me, because I have a real issue with wimpiness.
When I see my wife, I get the sense that there is still a lot of love there as well. Last time I saw her, she ran away really fast, like it hurt her to be around me, or something. I've also noticed looks in her eyes like there are feelings. She would study my face a lot. She would stare at me while I wasn't looking directly at her, but then quickly look away as soon as I looked at her eyes.
I feel a sense of hope for you from reading this latest post. If she will go to counseling, that is really good. My wife went to one marriage counseling session with me, after bomb drop, said she was glad she went, and enjoyed it, but still refused to go to any more. Hopefully your wife will continue to go with you.
My wife has another man. So, it's very hard for us to reconcile as long as he is in her head.
Thanks for your words. I'm glad that she isn't with anyone else as far as I know because that is such a big obstacle to wait on. I'm discouraged by the feeling that this is more MLC than just WAW because there's even less control and it takes more time with probably less guarantees. But I do feel stronger, more confident. Being able to look into her eyes and feel and see I'm not crazy is a big step. I still have my days where I'm a wreck, detaching comes in spurts but I'm still making plans for the future for myself, including living situation when the roommate sells the house. She did mention to her father, who is still calling to talk to me, that she noticed some positive changes yesterday. She's stubborn and hasn't changed her position, but I've come through the woods to find the road. I know it's worth the fight. Gotta remember to notice the baby steps.
I think you've got the right idea. I'll be watching you for how to deal with my own situation.
I'm discouraged by the feeling that this is more MLC than just WAW because there's even less control and it takes more time with probably less guarantees.
Don't put your eggs in that basket...
So today I sent her the pictures of the baby rabbits to update her like she asked. She replied asking how the ferret was doing from the surgery 2 days ago. I sent a photo of the incision site. She asked a question and I answered straight to the point. A good interaction that she had essentially asked for.
Tonight getting home I get a message from her asking what book it was I was reading when she came over on Wednesday (not DB). I talked to my friend and decided to tell her about "I love you but... I'm not in love with you" by Andrew G. Marshall. The book is overall positive and helped explain to me what she might be feeling more in depth with that statement and how to help get the feeling back along with "exercises" and stories from his counseling sessions. I told her with the title that if she reads it she should read it all the way through even if she doesn't like the exercises. She replied with "when have I ever skipped hw".
I am pretty excited about this interaction. She initiated it. When I last spoke with her father he had talked to her right after she left and she had mentioned that while her feelings hadn't changed she noticed positive changes with me. I feel like asking for the book stemmed from that, but I'm probably reading too much into it. I'm letting this good feeling sink in for a bit longer before I temper my expectations to where they should be. Just feels good to feel like I have a real win for once.
So today I sent her the pictures of the baby rabbits to update her like she asked. She replied asking how the ferret was doing from the surgery 2 days ago. I sent a photo of the incision site. She asked a question and I answered straight to the point. A good interaction that she had essentially asked for.
Tonight getting home I get a message from her asking what book it was I was reading when she came over on Wednesday (not DB). I talked to my friend and decided to tell her about "I love you but... I'm not in love with you" by Andrew G. Marshall. The book is overall positive and helped explain to me what she might be feeling more in depth with that statement and how to help get the feeling back along with "exercises" and stories from his counseling sessions. I told her with the title that if she reads it she should read it all the way through even if she doesn't like the exercises. She replied with "when have I ever skipped hw".
I am pretty excited about this interaction. She initiated it. When I last spoke with her father he had talked to her right after she left and she had mentioned that while her feelings hadn't changed she noticed positive changes with me. I feel like asking for the book stemmed from that, but I'm probably reading too much into it. I'm letting this good feeling sink in for a bit longer before I temper my expectations to where they should be. Just feels good to feel like I have a real win for once.
I actually skipped the part where when I told her she said she had just started reading it.
Today she messaged me asking if we could meet Monday for breakfast and then she can come over to see the pets and get some stuff. I have some plans throughout the day and said she's welcome to find a time around them. We have a plan now and I'm hoping to see some cracks in her armor when we talk but I'm trying not to be optimistic. Her initiating the conversations like this is still a step forward on the road.
Met her for lunch today. Had decent conversation. Asked specifically at one point about counseling together. She said "maybe". She has a lot of revisionist history going on but she is getting more comfortable around me. Problem I'm running into is that the work apartment is about the be hers alone. Means she will be 2 hours away from me. I offered to bring the cats down to visit her since she said that she is sad she isn't going to be able to see them once she's down there everyday. She said that I couldn't handle the driving, I told her not to underestimate me.
She reiterated that she sees the changes I'm making and hopes they are for me and not for her. I told her I do what I want to for myself and I feel as strong as I ever have. During a moment of weakness we were both crying and I asked if she was filing papers anytime soon and she said as long as things stay positive she doesn't have any plans for it right away. She still believes that she is right for leaving because of things I've done. The book she was reading she didn't really agree with as much as I had hoped but she isn't done yet.
It came up that she would like if I called her once in a while. I said I didn't want to interrupt her space and she reiterated that every couple of days it's ok. She is stubborn, always has been , and needs to work through some issues of her own. I just am hoping that I can find enough opportunities to show her that her current perception of me is wrong. Actions actions actions. I have already surprised her, gotten her wall down a bit. Doesn't matter until she does more work on herself. She blames me for giving up her hobbies. I don't agree but it doesn't matter who's to blame, she gave them up and currently has to find herself again.
Counselor isn't sure I'll be able to get on meds for depression with the progress I made. Dunno if that's really a good thing or not? I feel stronger than ever, stronger everyday. But I don't detach much. She will be alone in the work apartment come Friday, the other person is moving out and she will be there full time. I think the conversation on the phone will be important and I hope to have some kind of window over the 2 weeks following that to get her to want counseling together.
Baby steps from today:
"Maybe" counseling
She acknowledged my progress
She wants to talk on phone
Her wall is slowly coming down
She was able to take what she needed without me having to tell her to stop.
In my opinion, you should keep doing what you're doing, because it seems to be moving you in the right direction.
With my wife, the worst thing (post bomb-drop) was letting her get mad, which was done by defending myself when she would attack me. Her anger fueled her ability to leave me. And she would intentionally make herself mad and hateful so that she wouldn't hurt about what she was doing and what she had done. She would get into these awful screaming tirades, and become just super nasty. I believe it was her own guilt leading her to act like that. I feel sorry for her. But it was a huge mistake to let her get mad, because it just helped her build her wall so much bigger each time it happened. I don't know whether your wife is like that or not, but watch out. Instead of defending myself, I should have just said something like, "that's terrible that you felt that way", or something, anything other than disagreeing with her, and especially not blaming her, even if you believe it's her fault. Save blaming her for later when she's back to being a rational human being again.
My wife was "wayward", though (if you aren't familiar with that, that's Sandi's term for a walk-away wife who is leaving you for someone, or an idea of someone, or just a desire to go wild). Your wife doesn't strike me as wayward. You don't describe her as being terribly different than she usually is, other than having a wall. She may have just left to take a break for a while. It's a lot harder to get them back when they have their mind on someone else.
My wife treats me like I'm the one that cheated, and she's the innocent one, when it's the other way around (other than the non-cheating things that I did, like not making her feel special and cherished, being lazy, not being more enthusiastic about going out and socializing, etc.).
That's an awful thing to go through Wsh. I'm fairly confident now that there is no one else but her relationship with her boss made me wonder initially.
I am trying to keep everything positive enough. She did text a bit after leaving saying she finished a book and suggesting one for me. She also said that she liked that we talked and felt we were strengthening our friendship, she has some questions she wants to ask but feels "tapped out" right now. I told her to give me a call when she's ready to talk again. I also made it clear that I'm ok being friends now but I'm not closing the door on anything for our future to essentially say I won't be "friend-zoned". There's lots of positives I take away in the immediate aftermath but then later I remember I'm still here, she's still there, and she's still not "in love" with me.
Counseling tomorrow for the first time since these two meetings. Hoping to get something from that.
felt we were strengthening our friendship,
I also made it clear that I'm ok being friends now but I'm not closing the door on anything for our future to essentially say I won't be "friend-zoned". There's lots of positives I take away in the immediate aftermath but then later I remember I'm still here, she's still there, and she's still not "in love" with me.
Do you think she is setting you up for buddy status? Or that, in her mind, she already has you labeled as that? What if she is, then what?
After talking with my counselor today it's clear to them that she still has feelings for me from her actions, but that she isn't capable of anything more than friends right now. I have to play the game and keep working on GAL to stay interesting enough that she will want to be with me when she gets through her stuff (and obviously to be a better person for myself). She's holding a lot of resentment right now and doing revisionist history. Getting to counseling together will really be the only time I can be sure the history gets worked out and until then I'll work under the Dr. Gottman idea of it takes 5 good things to fix a bad one. I can't change the past but learn from it moving forward. If she mentions friends I have to find a way to remind her that this is a step for me not the end goal, without placing pressure on her. How I do that? I dunno.
Short term goal is to have a date (even if we don't call it that) by my birthday on the 18th. 3 weeks from now. She will have been alone at the work apartment for ~2.5 weeks at that point.
Venting session-
So at a friend and counselors recommendation I read "men are from mars women are from venus". Got some communication things from it that applied to me, felt down a bit from the last meeting because of her feeling like I was responsible for her giving up her hobbies. Obviously this was her decision, but there are reasons she felt the way she did, right or wrong. I see how I contributed and the book said to write a structured letter and read it to the other person. I had to call on Wednesday (two days after our face to face meeting) and figure out some insurance things so I wrote it, talked it over with a friend and read it to her.
The timing was bad, it was after she had just got done work (I didn't know) but she listened and thanked me for reading it. Asked about the animals and a couple small talk questions and answered mine about the insurance. At first I felt better, she didn't say anything about it but she listened and I acknowledged her feelings and told her mine. I loved her hobbies, felt it was important for her decompressing from working absurd hours (but I didn't tell her that part). An hour later I felt like crap. Contact, even with the positive momentum I've found lately leaves me wanting more and empty when it's over.
I found out she is selling her personal car (it's in her name) and just using the work car while she lives down there. She offered to let my roommate (our friend) buy it but he declined. He asked what she would do for personal trips and she said she isn't making many so it won't matter. This bothered me more than it should. Feels like she is still purging, like she was cutting off her escape route. Not sure how to approach these types of situations because I'm looking too much into it and obviously need to detach. I just can't. If I wake up strong I feel terrible by the end of the day or vice versa.
I know that I have made progress from a month ago, I just know that I've made changes to myself that I needed to. I plan to keep with them and be consistent. But it's the fact that this isn't guaranteed, that it isn't tit for tat. She might not be working on herself at all. Just wears on my mind. She's worth the pain and bad days, just hard to do when I'm home alone. Roommate doesn't come back for 3 more weeks, trying to make friends is hard right now.
Have to call her tonight to ask her to stay at the house to watch the animals next weekend so I can go visit a friend 4 hours away. Driving 4 hours away is something I wouldn't have done and I need to get out of the house for a while. Just need to set my boundaries and see if she agrees. -End venting
At least she will talk to you, and doesn't appear to have a replacement person in your way.
You're right, I still wonder about the emotional involvement with her boss but it's not something that has stuck out during any of her talks.
Called tonight, she didn't answer, she called back an hour later said she was on the phone with work still (3 hours after she left the actual store, that's a 12 hour day). Had a pleasant interaction, she said she can't watch the animals because she has to work (she could but she doesn't want to because it's a drive shes done many times before, but I didn't argue). She asked if she should ask one of our friends. I told her that's ok I'll figure it out (something she doesn't think I can do). She asked if I had ever driven to Vermont before, I said nope. She expressed that I should be careful driving through the mountains and I told her thanks for the concern but I've mapped it out. Told her about an incident with one of the rabbits and we talked jokingly for a few minutes, she laughed. She's going to see her grandfather who isn't doing well on Wednesday. I said I'd let her go since I'm sure she was tired from work. I asked if it's ever a good day when you have to work on sunday and she said it was a particularly bad day. I acknowledged that it must be frustrating and ended then ended the conversation.
So I maintained a positive tone, Got her to laugh and let her know the animals are taken care of, mentioned I was going to Vermont, she expressed some level of concern for me, offered her time with the animals and I was the one who ended the conversation before it dragged on too long. Best phone interaction yet. Just feels like there's so far to go before she figures her self out. I'll keep showing my changes, stay consistent. Baby steps... Patience...
"In order to win, you must expect to win" - Richard Bach
Texted her last night to ask if she wanted dinner since she was going to be in the area, she said "I doubt I can, but I'll let you know." I ended up taking some extra time at work and told her I had to cancel. I was pleasantly surprised when she replied with "What are you doing tonight?"
Texts were exchanged and I told her that her thesis professor had passed away, she's not good at noticing when these things happen. She thanked me. I called after work to see if she was still around because I was going to get dinner. She was but was too far away for dinner. I told her were I put the hide-a-key after she agreed to my boundaries at the house and she went to see the animals. I talked the whole 35 minute ride home with her having jokes and pleasant conversation like old times. She was still there when I got home. She saw I was taking care of the animals and the house was cleaned up, I'm trying to stay consistent with all these things.
She got visibly upset when she started to leave. Crying. Got very cold and short with some of her answers. I went out to the car 5 minutes after she had gone outside and she was still in her car crying, hadn't even started it yet. Got my stuff I needed and came back inside.
Her father called to check on me before all this. Talked about how he thinks she is having an identity crisis and is starting to miss "home". This isn't based off anything she's said, but her actions. All this gives me hope, she's chosen her work life over me and it isn't going well so far. I need to keep consistent and stay busy enough to have things to talk about. I'm happy with myself and the changes I've made, I'll find more opportunities to test them as I go. I still spend hours on the phone with my bet friend and mother just to keep myself from getting stuck in my head. I'm thinking of signing up for a cooking class at the community center, something I don't know how to cook well. I feel my confidence rising by the day, the warm weather next week should help.
You seem to know what you're doing. I'd say good work. Keep it up.
So I went to Vermont to visit a friend, we exchanged some playful texts. Called her tonight to ask a question about the animals. We talked about my trip and joked for like 10 minutes before she got a call from a friend she hadn't talked to in a while. After an hour she called back because I said to if she had a chance.
Her tone changed significantly from the first call. I believe it was the first time she had told this friend she had moved out. I asked if she was ok and passed it off as something else. She said she is working 7 days a week coming up for the next 3 weeks at least, 12 hours a day. I told her I was sorry to hear that and she said "it's only temporary". I replied that I know, she told me she would be covering the last time we talked. This bothered her, trigger from something in the past. I apologized and we talked about the animals some. Conversation was short this time, only 5 minutes as she "had to go" to bring laundry up the stairs.
I'm frustrated because she isn't going to counseling anymore and is now working 80+ hours a week again. Time is my friend I suppose, she has to realize that her work isn't making her happy, just want to help her
What is the longest you have gone without contacting her, since she left?
no contact was 5 days, then there was an issue with the animals
After talking with friends and counselor, her overworking the next few weeks is not something I can control and possibly may even work in my favor. I'm going to go dark for at least the next 5 days (setting a time helps me through it). I've gone through tremendous personal growth so far and the counselor said that her getting so upset when leaving is normal and there will be more times that happens as we go and more time from BD happens. Have to let her fall during this work period and maybe hit bottom. Be here if she reaches out but let her reach. Time is my friend.
Bear with me, I'm still using this as a pseudo journal
So after 4 days with no contact she initiated a conversation via text today. Again she started with the animals. Momma rabbit had babies again and we had some issues but I was able to handle it. Being able to take care of business around the house is one of the things I am working on as she would usually take the reigns, I'm realizing just how much neglect I contributed to the relationship. She asked if we could get dinner next Wednesday (my birthday is Tuesday) as she found someone to cover for her then. I had expected to let this go so this made me pretty happy.
After texting for 30 minutes she asked if I could pick up some things for the rabbit from the store she works for and I did. She then called as she was getting out of work. This is the first time she's called me without me initiating. The conversation lasted 25 minutes and I was the one to initiate ending it when she seemed to be slowing down on talking. I spent as much time listening as I could. She asked about the animals as usual but then began to talk about her day and work. This is something that had been contentious in discussions leading up to BD and she had been confiding more in her boss than me over the months leading up to it. When she mentioned something was difficult I made a point to acknowledge that it must have been difficult and not offer any advice on it. She mentioned that she thinks I should get my eyes checked again soon (It's been a while and I'm squinting a lot) and said that I had been reluctant to before, I should "add it to the 'work on' list". I said that I hadn't thought about doing that but it's a good idea to get them checked out. I don't think the "work on list" was a jab but I made sure to not engage on it either way, essentially thank her for the caring advice.
I asked if she wouldn't mind looking at my resume on Wednesday and she got excited. It's something she strangely enjoys and hiring is part of her job. She mentioned that she had tried once before and it ended in an argument. I don't remember it, and I told her that but I said it'd give me a chance to see how my communication practice is going and she laughed.
25 minutes of a conversation with jokes and pleasant dialogue. When she ended the conversation her tone was pleasant where the last few times it was cold at the end.
I found out yesterday that I get to graduate in may (I needed approval since I have a summer class to take to technically finish). I had been pretty excited, then bummed because I wanted to call and tell her, the willpower to not call was exhausting. Detaching is still something I can't fully do and it makes every day exhausting but I keep working on things, trying to GAL and try new things. I am sending her a message in the morning that she asked for then don't plan on talking again until I see her next Wednesday. With work being more stressful not being there to take any blame for her bad mood and exhaustion makes sense. If she wants to reach out, I'm here to listen.
I think you are doing well, giftd. I wish others would chime in more, though, because I'm just a student here. And I think you know what you are doing better than I do. I also think your situation is much better than mine, though I do believe my wife would still be with me right now, had she not met the other man, or any other man.
I appreciate the support wsh. I'd love some more constructive feedback as well. I've been reading tons of books on communication and separation along with DR. I love you but... by Andrew G Marshall helped a lot. The hard part has been utilizing the knowledge in practice. Listening 70% of the time is hard to do in part because she wasn't ready to do the talking in some of our conversations, she was still in crisis mode. Most of the time she still is but since she initiated this conversation the timing was good for her and since I had gone dark before, even though she had a bad day at work it wasn't projected onto me at all. I'm feeling pretty good today even though I know I still have to try to detach because backing off removed me from the equation. Instead of being unhappy "because" of me, she was unhappy and called to talk and feel better.
That's awesome, man. My wife won't talk to me at all.
So tonight she called again. She was on her way home from a friends wedding. She said everyone was happy and she realized that she was just mad, mad at me. She said she finally could put her feelings into words. We ended up talking for 45 minutes until she got settled in at the work apartment. It wasn't all about the relationship, anything that was was something that she brought up. I acknowledged my failings and apologized for my lack of self confidence. I said I can't change the past but I can focus on the future. Can't remember exactly how things went down but she basically said she hasn't forgiven me. It sounded like she still has some things to work through but I was able to show the progress I've made again with myself. Listening and acknowledging her feelings even when I didn't agree.
We are still having dinner on Wednesday, I'm hoping it goes well but I'm trying to have no expectations... Counseling is the day before so I'll get some help then on what to expect. Need to go over possible scenarios in my head so I can be prepared. She essentially said that she isn't a leader, she's a "companion", from an archetype book she read. Kinda comes back to the fact I got complacent with the relationship and scared after my illness, let the wrong emotions run me. Honestly my biggest change has been to "man up" a bit. Communication was neither of our strong suits, she still has things to work on, but I'm pretty proud of myself for the things I've been able to do these past 2 months.
I've never really been alone like this before, I was terrified of losing everything. I'm sure I have more growing to do, but I know the man I am now is someone she would want to be with, someone I'm happy with. It's nice to hear a real reason from her and not the hollow excuses that changed from day to day she was using before. I'm worthy of forgiveness, that's on her now.
I need to be patient.
What do the rest of you think about his situation? It sounds like it's going pretty well to me, but I'm hardly one that should be giving advice here.
So today she called after texting (I had a flat tire) and we talked for 25 minutes while she was driving down. When she finally got here she went through and saw the animals while we made small talk. Then she laid on the bed and talked to me while petting the cat. It felt like old times... Finally we went downstairs and she started to get into a strange mood. I asked if something was wrong and she said she was tired. After a couple minutes she actually fell asleep on the couch. I read and listened to music on the tv before waking her up after 30 minutes to ask if she'd rather order food than go out. She didn't reply so I just did. I went and picked it up and then we ate on the couch and watched a show she put on. I drank wine and when offered she asked for soda instead. My nerves kinda led me to drinking some. After a couple episodes and some laughs she said she had to go. Since I'd been drinking I got a bit teary. She asked if I wanted a birthday hug and I said "from you, always". Then I said "Because it's my birthday I'm going to say it, I love you, please don't reply". After a minute long embrace she got up and said good bye, there was no lingering in the driveway this time. She said she had been up since 5AM.
I didn't follow her out, I let her go. It's still painful. I try to detach, or at least project that I have when she's around. Fake it till you make it. It's just painful still. Things are so much better than when the bomb dropped, yet even though I've made progress with myself, the other two identities involved, the relationship and her, have made much slower progress. I don't know if she is pushing away or not anymore, but she isn't running. That's a positive step. She drove 2 hours to come see me for a birthday dinner. I gave her a card inviting her to my graduation ceremony for college. She didn't open it before leaving, I did my best to let that go. I did send a follow up text thanking her for the time and acknowledging that she had a long drive to get here. It's frustrating that she is staying 30 minutes away tonight at a friends house when she could be here with me... I can't make her come back though, I can show her who I am now and be the best man I can. At least she is talking to me...
You are much better off than where I was two months after my wife left. But mine left for someone else. Yours seems to be just figuring things out and getting space. Mine quit acting the way your wife is acting probably after about one month after leaving, if not before that.
Reading these other threads, I feel guilty posting here sometimes. My situation could be so much worse than it is and yet I feel devastated still. I still believe we can move forward and create something better than before and I believe I have made so much progress on myself. The fact that work and her boss are slowing down her progress is just so frustrating. I always have a down swing after our interactions.
Interacting with my wife is hard. It makes me miss her. If she is mean to me, it's worse.
Don't feel guilty. You are not in a good situation, either. It just seems to be a lot better than some people's. But keep your hope and confidence up, because that will make you cheerful and attractive. I think you have a lot to be hopeful about, too.
A lot of people around here would say to have zero expectations, though. I'm still figuring it out. So take my advice with a grain of salt.
So today I was feeling terrible. Mornings are the hardest, just waking up and she's not there I can't get back to sleep and I know I'm not getting enough.
Stayed at a new friends house and when I got home I went to put on netflix and saw she was using our account for the first time since she left. I had assumed she started her own account to just rush through separating our lives because she gets gung ho about some decisions she makes.
my h is still on the family netflix account I pay for. I didn't want to look petty and take him off, and I didn't want our kids see that. So i would read nothing into it.
It's neutral.
This is something we would use everyday, we both use noise to sleep. I know I shouldn't look into things and have to detach but it gives me some hope.
you have to apply the principles here for them to help you.
Have you gotten the DB books and started to read them yet?
Also, just curious, are you from similar cultures?
Made me feel like maybe she's finally starting to calm down, stop being angry.
what are YOU doing for YOU? Not about getting her back, but about becoming the man you were meant to become?
To become a man only a fool would leave...?
Okay....you need another viewpoint here rather than just your fears and pain.
Here's a 2 x 4 that is meant to help you see HER perspective b/c she is not just going to "Stop being angry" and I don't think she needs to "calm down"....I think you need to step up to the plate and own your life and bring something to the table.
Her potential views...
I think she's been the giver in this m, and it physical and emotionally drained her...
You use anxiety and depression as themes as to why you cannot hold a good job or finish school, or pick her up after LONG hours, or emotionally really be there for her
(and suicidal thoughts you expressed to her) but you are not seeing someone or on meds for that?
Oka this^^ is huge. That would make me so insecure as a wife. It would make me think twice about ever having children with you too...& that is a lot to give up.
What avenue was there for her life to improve? I mean, seems like she just worked harder and harder while you stalled out on her, repeatedly. I know you're not well but it sounds like that's not something you are up for changing either.
See, arguably, if you are not going to get help for your problems, there's no way she can expect change in you. So, can you see why she'd think there's no real hope for a better m, in her eyes?
This ^^ is up to YOU to change. That's great news! See this as empowering b/c it is.
Believe it or not, the worst news in this ordeal is that you were a perfect h and yet, for no apparent reason, your spouse wants out.
^^^That would mean you are powerless to change things.
So when you know you have crap to own and thus, crap to change/work on,
it's a gift.
Maybe even remember some good things watching a show we used to.
I am 100% sure I shouldn't read into it but I'm going to and use this boost to hopefully take a nap.
Thanks for the reply 25. That post you quoted is from a little while ago. What you say is true. I needed to step up in the marriage and take responsibilities for my problems. I've spent the past 2 months seeing a counselor and making life changes to address my mental health. Working on GAL and am graduating in less than a month. I continue to see the counselor on my own and just switched it to every other week because in her words "you've made such tremendous progress you don't need to see me every week unless you really want to".
I feel more confident in myself and what I bring to the table. I feel like I know who I am and what I want in life, I've made a plan on how to get there. It's really not much different than it was before I've simply "manned up" for lack of a better term. I'm taking charge of the things I can including the animals (medical things and general care), the bills that I have control over, my medical health (eye doctor next week, seeing a counselor), working out and yoga, changed some of my clothes (less college-esque), I'm reconnecting with my outside hobbies (fishing, hiking, gardening) and I'm going to do some clamming soon.
All of this has been good for me, I feel good. But it doesn't stop the days when I just want to cry because she left.
it won't stop those bad times, but those times will get farther apart, and they won't last as long and they won't feel as bad,
in time...and someday you will be healed
Yeah, I'm doing my best to make it through those days. My biggest issue with this is that while I want to be better with or without her, I very much want to be with her.
So yesterday I texted her and said I'd like to come down to Mass to have lunch with her and bring some things she left the last time she was here. She replied with lunch won't work because she's busy with work (only one at the store currently) but I could meet her when she gets out. Then this morning she texts to say that she is going to be super busy and that it doesn't make sense to drive 3 hours for 10 minutes of time when she will be up Wednesday anyways and then she can see the animals.
I'm sure she is working stupid hours still, it's her falling into the same habits as before while denying to anyone who mentions it that it's the same. I've done my best to avoid any talk about work because she just gets defensive. Part of me did wonder if this was her thinking it through and wanting to maintain a boundary?
I had looked forward to the drive because it's a nice day and I've never been to that part of Mass, never driven through it either so it'd be a good chance to work on my anxiety and show her something she thinks I can't/won't do. I suppose I will just enjoy the day with some yard work and look forward to seeing her Wednesday, I didn't know she planned on coming up. I find myself frustrated with the fact that she hasn't changed anything with regards to her work/life balance, I've come to realize that if she can't change it, we can't be together. It's important to me and I won't compromise because I'm worthy of time with my wife.
There's no counseling this coming week as we decided I'm in a good enough place to not need it every week. Should be interesting to see how it goes as most of the sessions have been good for identifying things to work on and venting frustrations.
So today went poorly on her visit. She had a headache and was tired from work. I got frustrated about walking on eggshells with everything I said and told her I was frustrated that she wasn't in a place to talk. Made a few mistakes but she is clearly overworking herself and it frustrates me. Biggest mistake was that I assumed she wasn't working on herself. This bothered her and when she left I had gotten a smile but she was still mad.
accidentally called her trying to call back my mother... she called and left a message but I was on the phone with someone else. Called a few people to run some ideas, get some other points of view. One said that I deserve something akin to an or get off the pot statement. Essentially after 2 months of giving space I need something so I am not assuming feelings and holding in all this frustration.
I started by telling her how I felt, evidently I was yelling and she said if I didn't stop she'd hang up. I apologized, I honestly had no idea I had raised my voice. We than expressed various frustrations, she accepted her role in some things and said she has been working on herself and how to feel validated by herself and not by others. This is great to hear, I applauded her for doing this. I did my best to acknowledge her feelings. She said that if I wanted to know how she felt I should have called and asked. I expressed my desire to give her the space she asked for. more miscommunications/assumptions by us.
Perhaps the most amusing part was that she said that she felt I held all the cards. I literally laughed out loud. She said I had the pets and had the locks on the house changed and the stuff that was still here she couldn't get if she needed. She said she was upset because she had to go buy a can opener. I laughed because This is exactly how I have felt. She holds all the cards on the relationship. I can work on myself but it's ultimately her decision to have the courage to open up and try again. She laughed. She also said that just because she thinks I have all the cards doesn't mean we are getting back together.
As the conversation progressed her phone started to die and I offered to end the conversation, she said she could plug it in and to keep talking. She at one point said that she needed to set up boundaries. I asked what they were. 1. No talk of casual sex with her. 2. If I have relations with someone else she doesn't want to know (this made me happy to hear). 3. If we continue to progress toward whatever relationship we end up with, she won't be calling just because she is bored and needs to talk to someone. This is because she is trying to do things because she wants to, not because she needs some kind of validation. I'm perfectly fine with that and she knows my boundaries.
She expressed that when we would talk on the phone in the past I would not give my full attention (often times when she was venting about work I would glaze over, I should have redirected the conversation instead). At the end I expressed that I would call her in a couple days, she said "sounds good". I see this as a great conversation for several reasons:
She never used any finality when it came to our relationship like she did in the beginning.
We both got to air out some issues that we had misunderstood.
She continued and wanted to continue the conversation, it wasn't one of us venting like a couple calls before had been.
I was able to identify more problem areas to work on.
She admitted that she lied about not knowing a book title I had asked about, she felt it would be used against her if I read it. She told me the title, she opened up at least a bit.
She really seemed to want me to call her. Knowing that I wasn't the best on the phone I now have a 180 I can focus on as well.
So the night started as a backslide, then I followed my gut and tried to utilize the skills I've learned from all my readings. I'm proud of how it went. I literally feel lighter than I did before.
Called tonight and she didn't answer. Got a call back an hour later and talked for about 8 minutes before she had to have a conference call. Conversation was light and I had questions to ask her since I'm going to Vegas for bachelors party next week and need her to watch the animals. Got outside today and got a new CD I wanted and mowed the lawn. the sun was great. Still having a hard time overthinking things
Okay, so texted today asking if when I can call because I had to ask her about taking care of the pets on Friday. She called after work and we talked for about 20 minutes.
Kept things light at first and we joked a bit. She asked me to be careful while in Vegas. Said she'd probably be able to do Friday ad she'd take care of it if she couldn't (friend come check on them).
I asked if I could call on the way home from visiting my family tomorrow (it's a 3 hour drive), she said "I'm gonna say no". I asked if I could know why. "I don't want to fall into old habits". Then I asked what the habits were. "I don't want to have expectations and then if someone doesn't call the other gets mad". She then continued; "I thought we set up this last time?". I said no, I wrote down the boundaries, but she said I hadn't been calling when talking about how she felt. She said "I mean when I said you could call once a week, unless there's something funny or important I guess".
I let it go at that point, I want her to respect my boundaries with the house and our things so I know I should respect hers. I am still getting permission for contact at least once a week which means more chances to show progress. However I find myself wondering if this is her setting permanent boundaries or if this is her needing more time to work on herself under the current situation? She also said that she is working on self care (she didn't use those words) with her going to bed at a certain time and shutting her phone off while sleeping.
However I find myself wondering if this is her setting permanent boundaries or if this is her needing more time to work on herself under the current situation?
Giftd,
Wondering what's going on in her mind only makes you spin and get sucked into worrying about everything. This is where detachment is key. You can't see what's in her mind and it only wastes energy, emotion from you.
We all wonder what's going on, but the more you detach the less it impacts you daily. Remember, no expectations lead to better days for you and that's what this is all about, you.
Have a good day today, Giftd.
Thanks for the reply Tryin. I hear what you are saying with needing to detach, I'm just having a lot of trouble putting it into practice
Visiting my family today, my mother gave me the arrows I need to start my archery. I'm hoping having something calming, semi productive, and that takes focus gives me some clear time I can build on.
Had counseling today, was having a hard time before taking on a lot of blame for the feelings she had. Counselor made some points and got me back to reality. Have been reading Brene Brown "The Gifts of Imperfection". It's good for me and the TED Talk is something she has seen before so it gives a talking point. Every time I mention myself reading she makes a comment about how she never thought she'd have these conversations with me. Feels good to break her expectations.
Getting a bit nervous and excited for the short trip to Vegas for a bachelor party. Might have my friend hold my phone so I don't backslide and call her a bunch.
Called her tonight to verify she would be able to stay on Friday to take care of animals while I'm gone. She said she would be able to and then said she was on a call on the other line and would call me back.
I got angry. Don't know why. After hanging up the phone I just got overwhelmed and sooooo frustrated with where things are. Talked to a friend who pointed out that from the lowest point we've come a long way and that all the work I've done on myself will pay off. It didn't make me feel any better because I know how far I've come but I'm still here alone waiting to work on the relationship. I'm continuing to read books but at this point other than trying new things the books I'm reading mostly verify that I've put the work in I needed to.
As I reached boiling point she called back (an hour later). I instantly came out of it. Put on my upbeat self and genuinely enjoyed the conversation. It was only 15 minutes but after what was really a long tedious day it was what I needed.
Finals are now over I can get some sleep and get the house cleaned up again. Going to try to use this feeling to carry over into the weekend where I'll try to have fun in Vegas. Next planned contact is Sunday where after talking it over with several people I'm going to try to see if she's ready for counseling together. She mentioned today that in 2 weeks she will regularly have half a day off again (it's so stupid I'm excited she gets 0.5 days off a week instead of 0). I'd like to get into counseling before the house is sold and I have to move, the separation of the animals and the general house stuff is something I'm not looking forward too.
Just got back from Vegas, had a good time overall. Did my best not to think about her and have fun. Got pretty messed up by some girls trying to flirt with me, not sure how to take that.
Getting home I can see that she didn't stay here. This was the whole point of asking her to check on the animals, she gets to spend time with them and they have someone. I could have called 3 other people to come over and check on them for an hour. Honestly I'm getting pretty fed up with some things. She is numbing herself by creating her life's schedule: Work 13-15 hours a day, come home and eat at the table alone, watch tv and go to bed by midnight. The limiting conversation time is also grating. She said she wants to be friends, I can work from that, reconnect in that way, it's not the end goal for me but I can understand it. Cutting off conversations and lying about why, saying we shouldn't talk more than once maybe twice a week?? I deserve more than that and anyone who does that to a friend isn't going to have that friend for very long.
I'm calling tonight as I had planned to ask about counseling in a couple weeks, I need to try this for me. When that goes no where I'm going to tell her that if she can't treat me with the same respect she gives her other friends I'm not going to bother talking for a while. No pictures of the animals like she asked for, no calls. This identity crisis is something I can't fix. Until she sees that working 70+ hours a week isn't a choice for her, it's a way to numb herself and please others, at this point it's an addiction and I can't help her until she wants to help herself. Stopping seeing your therapist after 2-3 sessions (both the couples and her own) and saying "it's ok, I'm fine" is not okay. Especially after she told me how hard a time she was having, that she had to talk to her boss about it because it was affecting her work.
Maybe I just need a nap after my long flight... Thoughts?
Talked to some people and calmed down a bit before calling her. She was having a bad day at work and said that she didn't end up staying. I asked why (mistake) and she said she didn't want to.
I mentioned counseling again (mistake) and she said she didn't want counseling together. Said she was beginning to feel crushed again, she can't be there for me how I "need her to be". I told her that I didn't need anything from her but honesty. I said that she wanted to be friends and the cutting off conversations isn't something friends do. She said it isn't productive for her on some days. (I didn't ask why). She said that maybe we just can't be friends right now, "that's something you have to work up to". I told her it was her request, I'll give her space. She asked for more conversations so I was giving her what she wanted.
I feel pretty defeated honestly. I get she's having a hard time at work, that's not my fault. I shouldn't have called, I opted into an unfair comparison. Have a few plans for GAL stuff to try out this week. Going to go dark, no more pet pictures, no more responding unless necessary. She needs to wallow in her lonely miserable life right now and I can't save her. She thinks that I'm the one who needs saving. I can show her I never needed saving, I needed a wife who was around.
Love her, hurts to see her hurting so much with no idea why.
This hurts so much. I can't stop crying right now. I know what I have to do but removing myself from the equation is so hard to do. I won't be a scapegoat anymore for her "crushed" feelings.
It's super hard to let go. But it's also freeing. I'm afraid she's really going to need to miss your presence. Let her go for now.
I agree with what you're doing, giftd. And it is very, very hard. Just give her time to figure things out and miss you. Remember that relationships are like see-saws. If one is doing all the wanting and pursuing and missing, the other won't be doing those things. Find happiness in other things for a while. Pursue the people that are your biggest fans and supporters, and keep posting here. We are listening. I don't always respond, but I am reading and thinking about what to say to you all the time. I'm like you, though -- trying to figure all of this stuff out. I suggest MWD's Last Resort Technique video series and the Divorce Busting coaches. I've found these very helpful, along with Divorce Remedy, of course. I think you are doing a good job with all of this. It might be up to her now to figure herself out and work on herself. You just keep on working on and worrying about yourself.
I appreciate the advice and support guys. Counselor today said she doesn't know if backing all the way off is the answer but there isn't really another option. I won't opt into being the scapegoat for her currently crappy life. Meeting some new people this week for activities, trying to make friends.
It's been raining here for almost 2 weeks straight now. Isn't helping
Mother in Law stopped by last night out of the blue to give me a hug and a card for graduation. She talked for 20 minutes with me about life and work. I did my best to use the opportunity to practice my listening and empathy. Got a little teary at one point.
Wednesdays are the days she has been coming back up to the area to get her mail after work and see the animals. I usually text to see if she's coming so I'm having a hard time not contacting her. Still spending too much time alone, weather has been ruining most of my plans.
Her father also called yesterday. Talked about his thinking on retiring soon and offered some advice. His talks are very calming for me as he went through a bad divorce and sees hope still. It also means a lot that he feels it's worth his time to talk to me, he feels I can make his daughter happy. I reiterated that I don't want him pressuring her.
Found out the house I'm living in is sold on the 15th of June and we have to be out by the 30th of July. This terrifies me.
I think that's great that your in-laws are talking to you. It made me feel so much better when my FIL contacted me to show care and concern.
Wife texted today to tell me there was stuff for the animals at the store nearby for pickup. I haven't responded. I'm coming to the realization that I'm still reacting from fear of loss and not out of love. I love her, it's just hard to find the line. Not really sure how to change that.
Got a call from the father in law tonight. He talked for like 20 minutes about his first wife and how bad the marriage was and what he went through. It was his way of saying things could be worse and keep my head up.
He said they are going to Mass for dinner with her on Sunday after wife gets out of work. Said they are giving her a gift and he's kinda hoping it reminds her of the importance of family. She's been in contact with essentially nobody as far as I can tell barring a few short calls and texts.
Felt good that he's still thinking it can work out. I reiterated that I'm giving her space and don't want to pressure her. Let her live the life she thinks she wants right now and do my own thing while she does.