Link to last thread (with links there to the ones preceding):
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2714259#Post2714259So picking up where things left off, not a lot to report. Present plan is still to divorce this summer so the kids have some time before school starts back up to get used to their new lives shuttling back and forth. I'm keeping the current home for a year so S10 can finish his last year at his current school, then I'll sell it, and we'll split the proceeds. W will need to file in about 90 days or so to keep us on that schedule due to a 90-day required "cooling off" period between filing and final decree. I'm not going to do that for her but am working on detachment so it isn't any harder or traumatic when it happens than it needs to be.
Our kids know it is happening but not the exact timing. My S10 is struggling with it, and I may end up seeing about getting a child psychologist to work with him for a bit; my D13 seems more "ok" with it -- a lot of her classmates are in divorced families, and I don't think she's as fearful. Not sure what to do there other than to tell them they can always talk to me and stay on top of them, watching for any downturns. Any advice form those who've had to do this would be greatly appreciated.
I'm not sure I'm in the right place ("newcomers") here, anymore, since I'm not really actively trying to bust the divorce any longer. I do like keeping in touch with everyone who's been so great for months supporting me, though, and hopefully I can give something back to those maybe just getting into this awful process.
I feel better than I have in a long time. Which maybe isn't great when viewed in isolation, but when I look back and remember just how low I was, it feels good to have weathered that. I like myself a lot more now than I have in several years. Still a work in progress.
JR I think there'd be a lot of value to putting your son in front of an IC. I know if my W and I D that will be one of the first things I do. It seems to be really tough on our kids and having someone to talk to who can make sense of things can only help.
It makes me very happy to know you're feeling better about yourself my friend. You have walked a long road and I know how tired you must be at this point. You just need to continue putting the focus on your kids and yourself. Let W push this thing forward if that's what she chooses. I'm with you and FG though, in that I'm not willing to help her in it.
You also say that you're no longer actively DBing, but by finally getting some detachment that may be the best DB of all. If there's one thing I've come to learn from all ours sitches it's that you never know what will happen. You may be surprised by what detachment brings you. Stay strong brother!
Thanks, lt. Just catching up on your sitch, and I continue to be amazed by your patience in the face of behavior that would have long, long ago broken me and driven me to the hills. I'm pulling for some relief for you -- it just seems constant, almost minute by minute for you in terms of the testing and picking and all the rest. You stay strong, too!
So W picked this AM, right before the kids needed to get up and start getting ready for school, to fire up the "we need to move this D forward and get it done" conversation. I had known this was coming, had steeled myself to be calm and collected when it came, but I ended up being really put off balance given the timing. I was just enjoying a cup of coffee before the big Friday AM push to get the kiddos to their respective schools. So I reacted poorly, and we got into it, cut the fight off to get the school drop-offs done, then reconvened back at the (now empty) house to continue where we left off. It was a long, painful walk back through all of how we got here (always amazed at how wide the gulf is in terms of how we each see our sitch, why our M is dead, etc.), but it eventually swung around to pretty dispassionate negotiations on how we're going to go about dismantling our life together and divvying things up. We both missed the entire morning at our respective jobs, but we did pretty good I think to essentially have an agreement completely banged out before lunch.
She'll be filing in two weeks or so, and we'll be divorced in late April/early May. 50/50 custody, which was my one real boundary I would have gone to the mattresses over, but she is fine with that and has no interest in fighting that.
I tell you -- you can think you're prepared, you can practice how you think it might feel, but you just can't ever be fully emotionally "ready" to have that conversation where you negotiate like business people how 20 years together will get taken down and chopped up. It is brutal. It is dehumanizing. It is the opposite of love and hope and joy. I want to crawl into a hole, cover myself up and just check out for a really, really long time. I feel more tired than I've ever felt in my life.
I'm sorry for what you're going through. My H has everything all planned out in his mind how things will go down so I don't think he even plans on having this conversation with me. But the minor things we do discuss are devastating.
D is like a death. Even knowing it's coming is so painful, mentally and emotionally draining. I hope you can take some time for yourself and find at least a moment of happiness in your day.
JR, so sorry man. Just reading your post makes me want to go jump off a bridge. (Don't worry, I won't, because the duty and love I feel toward my kids is a ton greater than anything I ever felt for myself).
It's trauma, period. Hell, it's a full set of traumas. All the bomb drops and all the mini-bomb drops in between. I feel like a tortured rat, in some cruel Pavlovian lab test, where the light turns on and you know the electric shock is about to come. That's how I feel every time I open my email. I scan the inbox for an email from my W, because I know it's a bomb. A daisy cutter, her words throwing themselves about just shredding my heart to ribbons. I would be luckier to just get a big fncking tomahawk from a UAV death machine circling my life above me.
Just survive, my friend.
You deserve better.
S
I tell you -- you can think you're prepared, you can practice how you think it might feel, but you just can't ever be fully emotionally "ready" to have that conversation where you negotiate like business people how 20 years together will get taken down and chopped up. It is brutal. It is dehumanizing. It is the opposite of love and hope and joy. I want to crawl into a hole, cover myself up and just check out for a really, really long time. I feel more tired than I've ever felt in my life.
Going through this now also...so true, so true...
JR, I am so sorry you're going through this brother. That back and forth today just sounds deflating. I can see how it'd be exhausting and demoralizing. FG is spot on about the angst of how and when the next unexpected mini BD will come. It's so hard to be in a state of readiness 24hrs a day and that in and of itself can be exhausting as well. I'd bet you did a better job of handling it than you think though.
I am very happy to hear that you all agree on the 50/50 custody piece. Your kids are key here and will need you strong and ready to guide them through this. Remember that you are their rock and they will look to you for stability. You have fought and continue to fight the good fight and should be proud of yourself for weathering this. Stand tall and know that you are doing what is right.
All that said, we are here for you and know what you are feeling. Stay strong brother. You are a strong man and you'll get through this trough in the roller coaster. Here for you bud.
JR, do the divorce negotiations ratchet up whatever ... tenseness or negative vibe you have with your wife? Maybe this is an obvious point. But I find myself dreading talking to her about it. Maybe that's why people let lawyers duke it out. Maybe that's why people do it after they've physically separated. It's hard to ratchet up the hostility when you're living together.
p.s. BTW, I'm leaning towards a 3-4-4-3 or 7-7 arrangement. I saw the light on the downside of too many transitions. But the natural conclusion, when I think about this, is that ANY transition is bad. The ideal living arrangement is:
1.
You just stay in one house.
FG -- we're pretty much past the negotiations. Custody is agreed to (50/50, 2-2-5-5 initially), as is most of the property chopping. She'll be serving me sometime this week, I think.
She took the kids with her yesterday to meet with a realtor and look at potential houses for her new life. It was hard thinking about that, and I was driving myself crazy ruminating, so I took a 2 hour+ walk and felt a lot better. This is a bad patch with the settlement discussions, meeting with the attorney, getting served soon and her really starting to ramp up her steps to get out (saw on our shared home computer that she's been search Craigslist for washers and dryers and couches, and that was more painful for some reason than I would have thought). It's a done deal, which is heartbreaking, but hopefully we'll go into a bit of a lull soon where we're just waiting for the 90 day mandatory wait time to run, and there's not another major event along the D road right in my face.
The one good thing is that my kids seem to be doing ok with it. S10 was previously showing some issues with rage, but we've both been doing a lot of talking and reassuring him, and he's seemed to calm quite a bit. Obviously going to stay on top of that. D13 has a depressingly large number of friends at school who are in divorced families, and she really doesn't seem to be that stressed out about it. She's not a still-waters-run-deep type of person, so I think we'd all know if she was really struggling, but, again, I'm just trying to watch and observe and keep the lines of communication open.
Oh, and I very much agree on the 1 house thing. But it takes two to want that. If you have one half of the couple motivated by a desire to blow up her life and start a new one, then no amount of personal growth or DBing or GALing or any of that is going to matter, because it's really the fact that you are you that's the perceived problem. Some people, like me, take great joy and pride in building a long, stable, happy home life. And some people hear the ticking clock of their mortality, and it tortures them to think that this (wife and mother) might end up defining them and being their sole accomplishments in life.
So how is it with everyone still under the same roof with the 90 day clock ticking? Any change in how you guys interact with one another and the kids?
JR,
Glad to hear your kids are doing OK w/ it. Not too surprised about D13 -- most teens in that age are so wrapped up in themselves, their circles of friends, and developing their own identity, that I think they'd be more worried about how/whether the logistical ramifications of the divorce will affect their social life. At least on the surface. Maybe underneath the surface, in the long run, it has more important psychological ramifications. My IC said as long as one parent is mature, stable and nurturing, kids will do OK. Obviously 2 such parents are better.
If possible, can you articulate a bit more about what your S10 was feeling? Did he resent you two? Did he blame himself? Was he angry about practical aspects of things, or ...?
My two kids are in approx similar age range as yours, and I fear a similar problem w/ ours....
BTW, I wonder if your W is having some type of a midlife crisis, and it's tied to some traumatic aspect of her growing years. And -- to state the obvious, maybe -- this is as much about a person's philosophy of life as it is about their day-to-day emotional equilibrium. If you don't know how to feel happy and fulfilled on a day-to-day basis by living in a stable, loving, supportive partnership, then you are going to get sick of your marriage at some point. I suspect your W has difficulty w/ that, and that has roots back in her whole life including childhood, not just your marriage. I know this is speculation -- but am curious what you think.
Gordie -- the 90-day clock isn't technically ticking but will start doing so sometime this week when I get served. Practically speaking, it usually takes more like 100 days to get everything done because the court's docket fills up, and it's hard getting a date for a final hearing right at 90 usually. In terms of how we interact, the kids now know and even know the approximate timing. Both of us have been doing a fair amount of one-on-one talking with the children. THe kids are actually a little more relaxed, at least outwardly. In terms of interactions with W, she seems more at peace now that she knows she's getting what she wants, and I've stopped overtly trying to save things, and she's less prone to picking fights or being overtly hostile. I've gotten better at not telegraphing to the entire family how I'm feeling. That was a weak point of mine. I'm still really, really down about losing this four-person family, but it was hurting my kids to see their Dad upset, sad, etc. And, from time to time, I'm able to generate real enthusiasm for this new life that's coming whether I want it to or not.
FG -- it's hard to know exactly what S10 was/is feeling because he isn't really able to articulate it. I think some combination of fear/anxiety, sadness and anger (hmmm, I recognize those things). Anyway, it translated into bouts of very angry yelling and throwing stuff around his room several times over a few week period, where the reaction really didn't fit the underlying stimuli (e.g., his sister would needle him or something, and he'd go off the reservation). He's calmed considerably since we told him that, while it is going to happen (he was hoping it wouldn't somehow), it's going to unfold pretty slowly, and all of us are going to be ok. He has in the past told me that he's angry at this mother (he understands the general dynamic: she's unhappy and wants this, I don't, etc.). I haven't brought it up again with him, but hopefully some of my W's talks with him have helped there. The weak part of me felt gratitude that my boy "had my back", but the sane part quickly realized him being angry is no good for him at all (even if he's right to have some anger at her, I think). He needs to love both parents and not mess his head up thinking about they whys and why nots of our M.
Re midlife crisis, no real traumas in her childhood other than her parents being in a not great marriage. They apparently fought a lot -- lots of bickering, with mom doing a lot of passive aggressive stuff, apparently. My wife must have taken good notes, but I digress. Anyway, they figured it out somehow (getting their kids raised surely helped), ended up quite happy and just had their 50th anniversary. There was a lesson there, but W chose not to see it. She had three siblings all closely bunched in terms of age, and she was 3/4 in birth order. I think she didn't get a lot of individualized attention, for what that's worth. She would go to her room and fantasize about magical, exciting things. Still does, I think.
If you have any interest in such things, check out The Enneagram personality stuff. My W is a type 4, and the descriptions of what goes on their heads when they aren't happy overall with their life is eerily spot-on. Learning about that helped me some because I realized we were always going to end up here given my W's persistent inability to make that leap to understanding that happiness, if you're going to have it, emanates from inside you. It isn't given to you by another person or by life experiences or any of that. Gratitude for what life is -- instead of dreaming of what it could instead be -- is her biggest personal growth obstacle, and she shows no signs of getting moving.
Will check out the Enneagram better. It seems to me that the "type 4" personality, if taken to a pathological degree, becomes borderline personality disorder, where your sense of satisfaction and identity is completely beholden to others: you only feel happy if someone likes you, loves you, wants you; you only feel sexual desire if someone wants you.
How did you handle your initial "big talk" w/ your kids? Did you do the 10 & the 13 year old together? How did you phrase the overall reason for breaking up? "We're not getting along?" "We're not happy together?"
Thanks.
p.s. I have been thinking about how I'm going to set up my new home -- my way -- and that brings me a certain measure of happiness.
We didn't really ever have the classic sit down. They unfortunately heard several of our fights and knew a long time ago things were bad. And they both have known for a long time that their mother is driving the bus. Recent efforts have mainly been relatively frequent one-on-ones by both parents. It has always sounded like you guys did a much better job insulating your kids from the realities of your sitch, so they probably do need a more formal sit down, as they really might still not realize it's happening and need that moment of realization to be with parents there. Hopefully your W is on her A game for that; I know you will.
Like ForGump, I'm close to sit down time. How did your kids know your W was driving the bus in terms of wanting D? Did you tell them or did they just know. I know the advice is often for parents to say we decided...but that seems dishonest.
I know the advice is often for parents to say we decided...but that seems dishonest.
I've felt the same. My IC said often kids know more than you give them credit for, and it's ok to acknowledge that the parents can't agree to stay together. I will have to get a clarification on this from my IC. I'm fairly sure my kids know who the unhappy one is.
so [your kids] probably do need a more formal sit down... Hopefully your W is on her A game for that
She gave me the keys to the bus, and said here, you run them over with the news of my selfishness.
She did say, afterward, that I said everything "beautifully."
I was flattered by her compliment but nothing about that whole thing felt beautiful.
How you holding up?
Hey FG -- thanks for checking in. I'm holding up pretty well, honestly. I catch myself thinking about the future without her and not being that sad about it. Other times, I cycle back into pretty bad places, but I guess I'm experiencing higher highs and at least a little higher lows.
I thought we were really close to having everything agreed in terms of the financial settlement and the parenting plan, and the STBX even complained that she was frustrated that things were taking so long, but now things have ground to a halt. The documents are in her court, and there really wasn't anything to my last set of requested changes, so I'm not sure what's going on. I do know her father told her my child support payments I'll be making each month were "pitiful", but he's an idiot and doesn't know that there isn't any negotiating on that -- its an algorithm that spits out the number based on parenting days and income differential. But I wouldn't be surprised if she's convinced herself she should get alimony, knows this will upset me and throw the deal into disarray, and is waffling. Who knows? Not my circus, not my monkeys. I don't think it has anything to do with even a whiff of hesitation as to whether this is what she really wants, based on (the unchanged) in-home demeanor.
How are you doing?
Same deal here in my state: child support is all formulaic. Good that you're not fooling yourself about why your STBX is delaying. But I'm sorry for you that it's happening. I think until I'm actually moved out it will continue to feel like a bad dream.
Speaking of parents ... I just dropped a bomb on my Mom w/ the news of our divorce. She's old school, just loves our kids to death, and didn't know at all that we were having trouble. She will be devastated.
JRuss/ForGump,
Dudes...just want to say as guys who are just one step ahead of me, I learn a ton from your posts...we still haven't dropped the bomb on the kids yet, so am really anxious about that...
I haven't dropped the bomb on my parents yet...thinking I may not tell them until we are officially D...my FIL called me the other day and it was obvious my W had not yet told him either...
Are you guys all staying under one roof until the D is final?
Higher highs and higher lows. That's a positive trend JR!
On the cycling though, I think we all go through that off and on. Best to just try to grind through those lows as they won't last.
Who knows what she's doing on the delay. Best to keep focus on your kids and you. Sounds like you're already taking this approach though.
Hang in there brother. It's rough but will get better
FG -- I definitely found myself thinking at times "maybe this means she isn't so sure she wants to divorce", and what was very new for me was that that thought wasn't really a hopeful one. It's not going to happen, but I think I'd say no, we need to keep this moving. Things are just too far gone, she never moved a millimeter back toward me, and I've just gotten to where being alone would be better for me than living with her. And who says I'll end up alone forever? Not me.
Gordie -- yes, we'll live together until the divorce is final, then she'll move out, I'll stay in our current house, then sell it next summer when we no longer need it to be in S10's school zone.
lt -- thanks for the encouragement. I am still following your sitch and hope you're doing ok. You know how highly I think of your efforts, especially with your D.
And who says I'll end up alone forever? Not me.
Definitely not me.
You're going to be one hell of a catch to someone.
Thanks, FG. That will be an interesting bridge to cross. I don't even remember what it's like to ask someone out, much less how to be Mr. Smooth.
You ain't need to be nothing but yourself.
You ain't need to be nothing but yourself.
Yep. I know ya'll are going to be ok once you get through this rough patch!
lt -- thanks for the encouragement. I am still following your sitch and hope you're doing ok. You know how highly I think of your efforts, especially with your D.
JR, thanks brother! You've got a ton of positive momentum to lean on my friend. Keep your head down and keep pushing through this stuff. No doubt there's better times for you ahead.
Counselor, how are things over in your part of the town? How are your kids adjusting? Any movement on the negotiations. It's not over til it's over. I thought my W and I had agreed on all the basic terms for D, but then she got some advice from a friend that prompted her to revisit division of assets. I was momentarily annoyed and worried but was able to return us to a point of agreement. I hope things go smoothly for you. I don't think your W (nor mine) will really appreciate us until we're far out of their lives. At least speaking for mine, she needs to feel my absence. She literally needs me gone, and know that I'm not going to walk in through the front door at the end of the day, to understand what she just did.
Thanks for checking in, FG. I missed your post, and then it went several pages deep (tons of people posting, which is depressing, the constant supply of LBSs), so I'm glad I scrolled down.
I hear you on the bumps in the road. I thought I was a day or two away from being served, tops, and then things slowed down. W suddenly realized she doesn't really understand how any of this works, how child support works (I think she thought she'd get more), and started doing her thing, where she shows SOMETHING is wrong, but doesn't say what it is, and I can either ask repeatedly, wading through 4-5 "nothing" replies before I finally get told what's going on, or I can ignore, at which point she'll usually start some sort of fight. She's basically overwhelmed at how hard it is to get divorced, and she's finally realizing it will hurt her financially. So she's slowed the pace down, wants to talk to some people. She definitely still wants to get divorced, but she's worried she might make a bad deal. I still think I'll be served sometime next week, as I was finally able to talk to her, told her I'd help how I could (main thing I won't do is file or be the plaintiff), etc., and she calmed down a lot.
The kids seem to be doing ok. We are both talking to them regularly, trying to make it all seem normal and not something to fear. What they really don't like (understandably) is Mom and Dad fighting, and we've pretty much stopped all of that.
Well, things are back moving. I took the kids out all day yesterday (brunch, hiking, taking pictures on our cell phones, and comparing notes, then Starbucks (they got decaff), and STBX took the opportunity to finalize our parenting plan and her complaint. She'll be filing it tomorrow, and the 90-day state law mandated wait period will start. I should be formally divorced in early June.
I'm always surprised how these milestone moments hurt, even though I've known for a long time this was going to happen, and it's hardly coming out of the blue.
I'm always surprised how these milestone moments hurt...
Yes.
Oh goody -- and now the draft e-mail that will go out to our friends hits my inbox. I get to "comment".
She seems to be enjoying this. I do think divorcee is in her minds a boost to her self-identity. It makes her "different" than most of our friends and family, and different is just a hop, skip and a jump away from interesting. There's some juice in that, for some weird, maybe not even healthy, reason. I don't think she'd ever reconsider, and I almost certainly wouldn't entertain it anyway, but one thing I know for certain is that the allure of being a mid-40s divorced woman with 50% custody of two still pretty young children will fade and fade pretty quickly.
She's sending out an announcement to all your friends?
Seems odd.
I'm always surprised how these milestone moments hurt
Called all the utility companies to transition to separate accounts. Now I just have one last one: I'm on hold with our car insurance company.
It's stupid. But each time I call one of these companies, my head hurts, a dull gray pressure around my eyes; they feel like being punched by an invisible force, a dark neutron cloud, some black dense matter.
FG -- yeah, it's odd, but everything about her seems odd to me, now.
Yesterday I signed our parenting plan in front of a notary public and, with that, signed away half of my children's remaining childhoods. I tell myself I'm fortunate, that a huge number of really good men and fathers get far less time with their children than I will, but man did it hurt to do it. She's filing today and may even be doing it right now, as I post this. The state won't recognize the end of our marriage until early June, but it ended for me when I signed that horrible parenting plan and gave it to her.
I took my ring off when I signed, and I won't ever put it back on again. I wore it 6,374 days.
Today is the two-year anniversary of BD for me. I've grown a lot. I've improved myself a lot. I'm considerably happier, right now, than I was immediately post-BD, that's for sure, although I'm still prone to pretty crushing sadness (I hope and think this will really start to lift measurably when she moves out). And I'm really, really angry that I have to lose half of my children's childhoods because my STBX is, at bottom, a selfish person. I'm not where I want to be, not yet, but I see where I want to get, and I'm going to get there.
JRuss,
First off I am really sorry about your situation. I have been following you for the last year because there are some similarities in our sitches. I was really hoping it would work out for you.
My wife has yet to pull the trigger on a separation/divorce mainly I believe because of guilt/kids/finances/family/friends. She is a 2 Enneagram "The Helper".
I am struggling with accepting that even if my wife stays it is more for those reasons then actually wanting to be with me.
JR, not sure what to say. I was there and I'm not sure if anything anyone said helped me. Maybe. Dunno. I felt numb at times, depressed at times, and for a few moments, ok at times. I do think often about your comment about Marlin Perkins. It helps me take a step back from the person that I thought I knew, and see her for a mysterious animal that she is. Hang in there, man. It will get better. I'm going to go have a cold one, and will toast for our better futures.
LH19 -- thanks for stopping by my thread, and I'm sorry your sitch resembles mine, or that you have a sitch you have to deal with at all. Keep doing what you can to grow and improve, for you.
At first, I struggled mainly with an intense desire just to fix me, to make myself more attractive for her, so as to fix the marriage by being what she needed me to be. That didn't work, all of my efforts in that direction were perceived to be smothering, and it kept me miserable, because I was constantly living and acting for her and not for myself, and it made me more and more attached in an increasingly not healthy way, which drove her further and further away. Eventually, that gave way to a realization, and it sounds like you are there, that, even if I did everything I could, she had pretty much decided that the promise of new grass, wherever (and whomever) it ends up being, is just greener and more perfect than I can ever be, and the best I could hope for is a W still married to me, but one pining for something she thinks would be better. That ended up not being good enough for me, although that realization took longer than it probably should have had I not been struggling with self-image problems associated with the rejection. I got where I started to see that alone will be better than together under that scenario, and there's certainly no guarantee that alone, forever, is my destiny anyway.
I'm still struggling with losing time with my children, but I'm going to try to see if there's any truth to the coping blurb people throw out, that high quality time, even if less of it, is better than lots of low(er) quality time, which was our reality in the Zombie Marriage -- our home is a sad, gloomy place often, and that's no good for kids.
My mother is a 2 Enneagram.
FG -- there's nothing that needs to be said. I'm really grateful for your support along the way, that's for sure. We will get there, I know it. Enjoy that cold one!
JRUSS,
My mother is also a 2. I think the world of her probably why I married my wife. Could you ever imagined your mother breaking up your family? I know my mom would have never. Although, things were different back then.
I just keep hoping that my wife will come around and want to stay together for the right reasons.
JRuss you sound contempt of what you are doing. I read the first chapter again. The chapter saying why divorce doesn't resolve issues. But again you do everthing. You change you focus on family her needs but it goes not too far. My journey just within a day went from ok cold turkey to no talk. I am so desperate to plead but holding back. Increased my meds. Hope you see light at the end of the tunnel.
JR, give us an update. Any practical changes to your life? Get new furniture? Can opener? Colander? Send out Evites to your family and friends to join in on your D? (Sorry).
Hate social media. I quit them to avoid the ignominy of getting divorced online.
Hope you're solid.
Hey FG -- great to hear from you.
In terms of an update, we're still living together and will until she can move into the house she's under contract on that closes in mid-May. It isn't ideal, but I can manage another two months, and I can't think of a good reason to make my kids' mom move out, then move again, etc. We'll still be married until the first week or so of June, when the 90-day state-required "cooling off" period (ha -- any colder in here, and I'll be frozen) ends. My ring is off and has been since the day I had to sign the Parenting Plan and have it notarized. I realized I was done and didn't consider myself "married" to anyone who would make me give up half of my children's remaining childhood and, importantly (to me) think nothing of giving that up herself. To in fact be motivated to parent less.
Our local paper publishes news of all divorce filings, so it went officially public a couple of Saturdays ago. Very few of our friends read the physical newspaper anymore, but I did get a few "Holy $hit we had no idea" texts. It's not terrible being able to speak about it as a thing that's is definitely happening.
When I get sad these days, it's rarely about her. It's much more kid-focused, as in realizing that the clock is ticking down to the day when they have to start shuttling. Any advice on how to handle that? I don't want them to see me sad, and I really don't want sadness to get in the way of the time I get to see them.
JR, it kinda sounds like you've detached from your STBX... which is good (given the circumstances).
Local paper -- ugh! Don't they have better things to do! I believe in people working as villages and communities but that seems to go a bit too far.
I don't know what kind of an arrangement/understanding you have w/ your STBX ... but in my case we live close by (~1 mi) and our schedules are flexible so we have been able to see our kids fairly often, although we are making an effort to help them get comfortable with the week-on-week-off schedule.
Week-on-week-off ... What can I say. I hate not seeing my kids, but given the divorce, this is the best I can do for them. I'm a bit frazzled when they're with me, but then when they're gone, the house is depressingly empty.
The only strategy I might share with you is that I tell myself this is when I need to bank my time for the kids. This is when I get stuff done, so that I can be more present when I have them. Every minute I spend working on household stuff and work is every minute more I get to be available to spend with them when they're here with me. That connection, that motivation, lifts my mood a bit.
I guess the other strategy I have is that I've picked some home improvement projects specifically for my kids (i.e., improve their rooms or improve something that they'd like). And working on that while they're gone makes me feel connected to them, and feel like I'm investing in the quality of the time they'll have when they are finally with me.
Also ... I have to admit ... I'd be a liar if I said the huge chunk of free time I have when the kids are gone isn't exhilarating at times. It's weird to have such a huge chunk of time to be completely free. So I do try to GAL and appreciate that freedom. I didn't do enough of that as a married person.
Give my best to your wife, hope the kids are well. (Kidding about the wife!)
FG -- thanks for the tips. It's good to hear that you're making it work so far. We're going to start out doing 2-2-5-5, but I think we will end up at 7/7 pretty quickly given their ages (10 and 13). STBX is moving pretty far out of town, so I think we'll be a bit more scripted on tradeoffs than it sounds like you guys are, but most of our transfers will be school pickups when school's in session; I really won't see STBX too much unless it's summer time. That's ok by me.
As I was driving home from work two nights ago, I was slowly approaching our driveway, and my son was shooting baskets at our hoop I bought for his birthday two years ago, completely lost in his moment. The setting sun was hitting him just right, and it was just about the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. How can it possibly be that someone would voluntarily give up so much time with him and his sister and never do anything (other than two faked trips to a marriage counselor) to try to prevent it? I'll never understand, I know that. I'm not sure why I still want to understand it so badly, though.
The setting sun was hitting him just right, and it was just about the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. How can it possibly be that someone would voluntarily give up so much time with him and his sister and never do anything (other than two faked trips to a marriage counselor) to try to prevent it?
JRuss,
I'd like to know the answer to that as well.
Right there with you. And add in 15+ faked trips to the counselor (make that two different MCs)..
My initial reaction -- and it went on far too long -- was to extrapolate from my STBX's willingness to give up half of her kids' remaining childhoods the truth (but it wasn't that) that I must be utterly horrible to be with. How else to explain a mother making that trade off? What I see now, htough, is a woman who simply got to her early 40s and decided her life -- looking back on it -- won't have been exciting enough or meaningful enough if she doesn't blow up what is and create a new identity. And it really helps detach. That sort of thinking is about as unattractive as you could blueprint in another human being as far as I'm concerned.
Well said, JRuss...
How else to explain a mother making that trade off? What I see now, htough, is a woman who simply got to her early 40s and decided her life -- looking back on it -- won't have been exciting enough or meaningful enough if she doesn't blow up what is and create a new identity
It is sucktastic no matter how you look at it. Mine went as far to say that the kids would be better off.
...that I must be utterly horrible to be with.
JRuss,
I think many of us go through the stage of blaming ourselves for not being the husbands we should've been. We get lost in our own fog. In hindsight, I was a good husband. Could I have been better? Absolutely! But, I was a good husband and an awesome dad. It's just that my XW wanted the OM and his family more than her own family.
Yep. Its crazy how most want to blame the OM. It's not the OM's fault by any means...he was just the vessel. There is no difference in the two. Our spouses aren't victims of conniving OMs. They went looking...an affair isn't an oops thing. They wanted it - whether it be with their partner or someone else. To them, their marriage and spouse are less than nothing. Sorry to be so blunt, but it is what it is.
I am into my third year now of suffering pretty significantly (getting better, though!), and I didn't even have to deal with an OM. I really feel for you guys and for all of the LBS here who've had to deal with infidelity.
I really feel for you guys and for all of the LBS here who've had to deal with infidelity.
The OM stuff isn't so bad; it's just the particular OM my wife chose. The guy has man-b00bs so big that he needs a bra and he can't count to 20 without using all of his fingers and toes. I was replaced with that?
I really feel for you guys and for all of the LBS here who've had to deal with infidelity.
The OM stuff isn't so bad; it's just the particular OM my wife chose. The guy has man-b00bs so big that he needs a bra and he can't count to 20 without using all of his fingers and toes. I was replaced with that?
Ouch!
I am into my third year now of suffering pretty significantly (getting better, though!), and I didn't even have to deal with an OM. I really feel for you guys and for all of the LBS here who've had to deal with infidelity.
Man if you only knew what lengths a cheater goes through.
I really feel for you guys and for all of the LBS here who've had to deal with infidelity.
The OM stuff isn't so bad; it's just the particular OM my wife chose. The guy has man-b00bs so big that he needs a bra and he can't count to 20 without using all of his fingers and toes. I was replaced with that?
Holy hell. In my case, the OM was in identical shape and roughly the same size...he just had no hair and looked like a criminal (fits the mold)
Here's my theory. There are two kinds of people. People who get their happiness from giving, and people who get their happiness from getting. Your the former; and your wife is the latter.
Simplistic, but I wonder if it's true. It seems to me that in long-term marriages, only the givers will survive and be content,.
Probably a lot of truth in that. The problem is when they change over time. I wouldn't have married her then had she been as she is now. That obviously holds true for her as to me, too. How do you know when you jump (back) in?
Here's my theory. There are two kinds of people. People who get their happiness from giving, and people who get their happiness from getting. Your the former; and your wife is the latter.
Simplistic, but I wonder if it's true. It seems to me that in long-term marriages, only the givers will survive and be content,.
I don't disagree with the generalization about givers and takers. Fact is that some of us are the "Relationship nurturers" or gardeners tending to the garden, and the partner is more about the external work or achievement, etc. OR oblivious
Still, I also think we evolve and change in time (or we can). So I hesitate to characterize all of us in 1 of two groups.
(Besides, I don't want to be stuck in the Giver's side if it means never "Getting"!)
And yes, I also think those of us who give love freely and feel it deeply, are actually happier in the end, than those who are waiting to feel it.
Even though people have different love languages (and it's vital that we learn our partner's LL)
it's tragic to see people turn away from the love their spouses are giving them
b/c it's not arriving in the correct lane...such a shame.
Probably a lot of truth in that. The problem is when they change over time. I wouldn't have married her then had she been as she is now. That obviously holds true for her as to me, too. How do you know when you jump (back) in?
I know this feeling JR. Looking at my W now I'm actually repulsed at times by who she is currently. Not a great feeling.
I hope you are doing well my friend. You deserve some happiness after the long road you've been down. No doubt that you'll find it now brother!
Keep being strong for you and the kids!
Thanks, lt.
STBX is taking the kids out of town starting today until Sunday. I'm heading to the Big City to hang out with my friend of more than 40 years. Should be excellent GAL opportunities available.
Looking at my W now I'm actually repulsed at times by who she is currently
I can relate. I've put a lot of thought into this very thing. However, the thing is, we aren't the same people we were five, 10, etc., years ago. Not at all. Sure, fundamentally, but we change/grow/regress over time...even our wives. I can't remember the person I was back then, can you? Our wives evolved into who they are and its part of their makeup/code. It is who they are now.
I tossed out the giver vs. taker theory out there to provoke some thought, knowing that it's not that simple, nor so black & white. In fact, whenever I look back at my own marriage, esp. reading old emails between me and my ex, I remember that she got a lot of giving to our marriage. So I see it as shades of gray, where people are spread out over a spectrum, with some people on far ends (co-dependents vs. narcissist), but with most people in the middle. And it's only one dimension among many dimensions that exist in personalities and marriages. But I do think it's important to think about. I think so much good and happiness comes from loving, rather than being loved, and I think many spouses who choose to leave a marriage do so because, somehow, loving you just doesn't fill their heart enough.
I can understand that.
I wonder how many people go into a marriage not fully invested. Also, I see a lot of failures that can be attributed to the way today's society is - you know, take the easy way out...everybody gets a trophy mentality. A weak generation makes weak times.
...and I think many spouses who choose to leave a marriage do so because, somehow, loving you just doesn't fill their heart enough.
Or possibly they're lecherous petulant scum sucking pigs belching the contents of their acrid pus filled intestines all over their loved ones lives in a draconian demonstration of the depths of a complete lack of human caring and compassion.
JRuss, I think you should seriously consider buying yourself a Toyota Tacoma pickup truck. A real man-truck, know what I mean? Oops, sorry, no, not really I guess, but at least Toyotas are so damn reliable, right? Anyhow, it probably requires some serious research to make sure you get the right one.
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I feel a little bit like I'm back in my marriage, not fully understanding what's being said to me, but knowing I should know there's something deeper going on.
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I feel a little bit like I'm back in my marriage, not fully understanding what's being said to me, but knowing I should know there's something deeper going on.
Ha ha!
JR, I love you man!!! But I ain't in love with you no more!
JR, how're you doing brother?
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Hope you're doing all right man.
It's weird to be on the other side now (of a divorce).
FG and lt -- hey guys. Long time no cyber talk. I hope you're both doing well (or at least better). Not a whole lot to report on my situation. Still slowly ticking down the days until she closes on her house (May 19th) and moves out (probably the following week). We'll be formally divorced sometime in early June. We are pretty cordial. Things seem to go best for all parties when I act as though I don't give a $hit, which is even sometimes really the case, so that's what I try to do.
Looking out ahead, I think when she moves out will be very sad. I've known a long time this wasn't going to end any other way, but it still makes my heart hurt thinking about it. I think I'm going to tell her I need to know the day(s) the moving truck will be here, so I can arrange to be elsewhere.
Yesterday, out of the blue, she e-mailed me and said S10, who is struggling at times with the D, would really benefit from a dog, and wouldn't it make a lot of sense if we got one for him, and the dog would just go back and forth with the kids when we do handoffs? I was noncommittal. I think the dog would struggle with that arrangement, wouldn't it? I'm also not sure I am looking for more ways to stay connected to her (recognizing we'll always have the children connecting us). I do think he'd benefit from some sort of animal friend (we lost two adult cats this fall/winter he'd known and loved his whole life), so I'm struggling a bit with where my duty to do what's best for the kids and what's best for me starts/ends.
We'll do Easter this weekend as a family. It will probably be the last holiday the four of us do together. Bittersweet to say the least.
GAL continues to go well. Benched 15 lbs. more than my body weight this week and have kept off all of the weight I lost after BD. Looking and feeling good (most of the time).
I hope you both have a great weekend.
JR! Good to see you brother. I don't blame you for wanting to be away from the house when she moves. I know I'd have a difficult time with it too. No need to subject yourself to it.
On the dog, I'd probably say no. I think that it adds a layer of complexity to an already highly complex situation. Seems like you'd want to each get your own pets and the kids could see them when they rotate bt you and W. Would also be good companionship for y'all during the off times with the kids. Keep in mind, my W has tried to replace me with a cat (she promised to D last fall) so maybe I'm a bit bitter!
I know you brother and I know you do give a sh$t, even if you aren't showing it. This is some tough crap you're going through and you've been doing it longer than most of us. Keep pushing forward and I've no doubt all will be good for you. Hang in there JR!
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e.
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^What he said. Sign up and look for him or me. You'll find it to be a better fit.
Hope you're all right JR
I feel like I'm waking up from a long fever
Things are fading in the side mirror, and I'm starting to feel happy again
I really feel for you guys and for all of the LBS here who've had to deal with infidelity.
The OM stuff isn't so bad; it's just the particular OM my wife chose. The guy has man-b00bs so big that he needs a bra and he can't count to 20 without using all of his fingers and toes. I was replaced with that?
Happens to the best of us
JR hope you're all right.
I'm doing ok.
Hey brother, hope you're doing well out there!
JR drop us a line, give us an update. Hope you're good.
Yes, miss you around here brother. Hope all is well!
Hey guys -- long time no see. I had to step back from this forum, as it was making me sad to read all of the LBS posts, never stopping, seemingly always a new crop of people done wrong and suffering, all saying the same thing, thinking maybe they can save their marriages . . .
Anyway, I'm divorced. It was effective 2 weeks ago today. She moved out May 20th, and we've been doing the shared custody thing. I miss my kids a lot when they're with her. I rarely miss her. I did have a bit of a setback last week when I took the kids to her house to drop them off, and my S10 gave me a quick tour of his new place. He took me into the area where she has her computer set up and, before I knew what I was seeing, I spied a list of password reminders, one of which is to her match.com account. The password she uses is the date our divorce went final. I felt bummed for a few days after that but am back doing my thing now. I don't really understand celebrating the date you legally gave up half of your children's childhoods, but then I don't understand her at all, anymore, and haven't for a long time.
Overall, things are better since we've moved apart. A lot better. It was such a demoralizing, demeaning place to be, always getting the signal, overt or not so, but always there, that she didn't think I wasn't good enough, that she'd made a mistake, etc. I lived with that way, way too long.
The kids seem to be doing ok with all of this. I'm keeping my eye on them but, for now, they seem ok, and that's all you can hope for anytime, regardless of your marital status. Obviously I'm going to keep that my focus.
I wish I had something more uplifting to say. I see some posts from some former LBS indicating that they're happier than they've ever been. I can't say that's my truth. I was happier when my W was still in the marriage than I am now. But I'm a lot happier than I was in our long, long in-house separation, and I'll get there, eventually. Still GALing, still throwing myself all in with my children. Teaching myself how to cook and run a home -- it's all pretty great if you stay in the moment.
I hope you all are doing well, and I'll try to catch up on your sitches.
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JRuss,
Thanks for keeping it real. This is a difficult path that we did not choose. I often feel the same way about the endless supply of new LBS. Althiugh this is difficult, it sounds like you are doing well at being a great dad to those kids who need you more than ever.
Best wishes,
Gordie
Hope your kids are adjusting and you're having some fun.
FG! I know it's not a great admission in this setting given the site's purpose, but I'm really happy to be divorced. Life is so much better! The kids are doing really well, which freed me up emotionally speaking to take a real look at life and what I want out of it. I know, you're supposed to do that before you divorce, and I was, in theory, but living together post-BD for more than a year -- it just didn't happen. Not really. I didn't detach fully. What I had with that woman was terrible and nothing to cling to, at all, though, in hindsight. She was a shitty wife! Most of the walkaways here are when you get right down to it, and pretty much all of the LBS can do a lot better if they believe themselves deserving of better. I know, not really DB-approved, that message I guess, but it's how I'm seeing things these days.
How are you? I know your kids have a very good dad as they adjust to life. I think of you and LT often. Brothers in Arms.
She was a shitty wife! Most of the walkaways here are when you get right down to it, and pretty much all of the LBS can do a lot better if they believe themselves deserving of better.
^^^^^^ is AWESOME!
FG! I know it's not a great admission in this setting given the site's purpose, but I'm really happy to be divorced. Life is so much better! The kids are doing really well, which freed me up emotionally speaking to take a real look at life and what I want out of it. I know, you're supposed to do that before you divorce, and I was, in theory, but living together post-BD for more than a year -- it just didn't happen. Not really. I didn't detach fully. What I had with that woman was terrible and nothing to cling to, at all, though, in hindsight. She was a shitty wife! Most of the walkaways here are when you get right down to it, and pretty much all of the LBS can do a lot better if they believe themselves deserving of better. I know, not really DB-approved, that message I guess, but it's how I'm seeing things these days.
How are you? I know your kids have a very good dad as they adjust to life. I think of you and LT often. Brothers in Arms.
JR! You have no idea how ecstatic it makes me to hear how well you're doing brother!
You're right about the kids. As you know, I too dreaded the unknown for my d and how this whole thing would impact her. Like your kids, she is as happy as ever and I actually am finding I've been able to help her grow as a kid moreso than I could when STBX was around all the time. This whole D thing has definitely been life changing, just not in the ways I'd thought it would be. I'm much happier with the life that d and i have been building for ourselves!
Being out of in-house S, it became so much easier to really, truly detach. That's when all the stress started rolling off and I could really focus. Wish we could impart on all of the new folks around here that life will once again be awesome for them. It just takes time and distance. Still not sure how any of us survived our in-house situations. Seems like pure hell looking back on it now. Give me water boarding and matches under the fingernails any day instead of that!
Definitely miss the many chats we shared around here my friend. I still make sure to bother FG on a pretty frequent basis (poor guy!). Some strong bonds forged here in some pretty hot and painful fire. Brothers in Arms captures it perfectly dude. I'll always be grateful for all of ya'll and what you helped me through. Keep kicking a$$ brother and definitely keep in touch!
Hope you're well JRuss. I'm doing very well.