Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/06/16 01:06 PM
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/06/16 06:02 PM
Hey JK, just catching back up on where you are. That text conversation must have been exhausting for you. I do get how letting that out can make you feel better though. I went through similar a few months ago and it was like opening a valve and letting out a ton of built up pressure. You just feel better afterwards, like a weights been lifted.
Unfortunately, sandi and Sara are right. We need to limit that type of response bc in the end it's counterproductive. It only reinforces the negative perception our Ws have of us. I know in my situation it did.
That said, hang in there brother. Yours is a very difficult path. You're doing well!
Unfortunately, sandi and Sara are right. We need to limit that type of response bc in the end it's counterproductive. It only reinforces the negative perception our Ws have of us. I know in my situation it did.
That said, hang in there brother. Yours is a very difficult path. You're doing well!
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/07/16 06:38 PM
OK let's look at this joint rant
This might be the longest post I ever did.
------------------------------
So Friday night I took about 1000 steps backwards. XW and I were texting back and forth for 2 hours. I broke every DB principle.
Not quite plus I have done this too. Just not in writing in texts that can be kept. Shoot foot both in any order.
XW: Hi maybe you misunderstood
I was talking about meeting halfway tomorrow or Sunday
Let me know what day works.
Where is the shared calender? Get around these issues by having a shared Calender.
Me: Neither, I am busy.
Blunt but ok.
XW: Ok well I guess we'll be charged until you're free
Look if it's not this weekend then we're looking at a mid way exchange on either the 19/20th. Your call. I don't have anyone available to drive me back from London if it's not other of these weekends. You're more than welcome to come and pick it up from here if there's a more convenient date and time. Just let me know so I can coordinate. Thanks.
pleasant enough response
And please have the boys call me.
Reasonable request if a little demanding and non specific.
Me: XW, I understand that you must be very busy with an active social life. Glad to hear that. Guess we will have to continue to resolve things thru lawyers.
completely off grid. Delete.
Me: The boys are home if you would like to call.
Much better.
XW: If in all I incur long distance charges
Suggest Skype, messenger to cut costs for all. As in XW can we find a way to save us both costs?
When you ask me to call you I do
Show me the same courtesy
As for the car return it has nothing to do with my active social life
I have to coordinate a ride home
You set this up!
Me: Then return it as the dealer requested.
XW: I am trying to do that
You're being uncooperative
accusations all round
We can send this to the lawyers to work out if you wish
Really drive up bills?
Me: I have a full plate. I am sorry you feel I am being uncooperative
XW: I'm sure you do. Like you wanted
Me: Absolutely
Am i calling your cell for the boys to talk to you?
XW: Please and thank you
After saying she should call, you caved. Find a cheaper way.
Me: For the record this is not what I wanted.
Yes that is clear
XW: Ok Jim it's been noted
You can seem to grasp that this is happening whether you want it to or not
Spot on
If you want to continue to make this impossible that's fine
Petulant. However she has a point.
You're the one that filed in the first place.
True, factual statement
You're the one that kept the kids from me. I told you I would never forgive you for doing that but you didn't seem to comprehend the results of your actions
You are doing the best for the boys ignore.
I can't fix what you broke
Projecting
I want to get you the car back
I literally have no way home
So work with me
OK back to the car
Or we can go through lawyers and judges again
More expense
You cut my phone off
Did you advise her?
You don't respond to my texts or emails
Is this true? Do you never respond? Ever ever in the history?
You don't want it like this
No she wants it all her own way
But you are making it like this
Projecting
Me: Really, let it go XW. The past can't be fixed.
You can't tell her what to do or think.
You are smart enough to know the impact of your actions also.
Good truth dart but lost in the tit for tat.
I had a purpose for working so many hours. I feel my perspective was never understood.
Maybe you didn't explain?
XW: I know Jim. All you want to do is going around crying to everyone validating your side of the story
Don't really care anymore.
Projecting again. And yes she does.
Me: We are both to blame.
Yes, but she left.
The fact that we did this to the boys makes me sick.
Oh dear!
It is not about me.
Really! Thsee texts are though!
It is about doing the work that os required to be in a marriage.
yes it was. Use the past tense
XW: The marriage is over. Now this is about doing the work that is required of us as parents
Yes it is
Me: I am.
You are, so start parallel parenting.
What are you doing?
Nothing.
No job, just took money.
Blaming
XW: You've all but cut me out.
Not much I can do
Ignore nonsense
Me: You chose that when you filed.
You Filed TOO!
XW: I chose not to be married to you anymore
That didn't mean I chose not to be their mother
This is true
In your sick mind it's all or nothing
Abusive comment. Very abusive
Me: You chose to break up a family. Read up on it. You are the psych major. You should know the impact this has on them
I didn't run away.
are you really expecting a positive reaction to This?
XW: I left you because you're a drunk and a verbal abuser
A narcissist that can only see how things affect him
projecting
Me: Ok yes I am a drunk and a verbal abuser.
Do not agree to any negative statement she makes. None.
You are a narcissistic manipulator
Stick to behaviour, she isn't diagnosed
XW: Uh huh
Whatever you want to tell yourself
She knows, you hit the mark
Me: You don't care what divorce does to a man.
No she may not but it's mind reading
Years off my life which the boys lose out on also.
Blaming her for your reactions?
XW: All you want to do is rehash the past
Place blame
Deal with reality
You are, she isnt.
Me: Not rehashing the past.
XW: Make it better for the kids
Focus on that
You both need to do this.
Me: You need to deal with reality also.
Parallel parenting XW.
That is all.
XW: Yes that is all
I have no desire to try and do
Co parent
You have agreement then
---------------------------------
Now we have two children in a playground. My dad is bigger than yours and can beat yours up. Yes he can, no he can't.
Me: When you grow up and stop running to your mommy and daddy then maybe we can talk
XW: Says the man who's father bails him out constantly
Me: Take responsibility for your actions.
Whatever
XW: My parents are supportive
Me: So are mine.
XW: I am
Ok
In less than a week this is officially over
Whether you sign or not, whether you like it or not
--------------------------------
We were discussing how to exchange the rental
Stay on point
it is her responsibility to return it.
Me: I am happy that I will never have to fund your bad behavior
XW: I'm happy too
Look if you want to exchange this weekend you really have to let me know now
I have to coordinate my ride
Me: Do some work and take responsibility pick up the car, drive the hyundai back to toronto until you buy your own
XW: No we can exchange the vehicle
Me: Sorry busy
XW: Ok then
Onus is on you
Me: Lawyers it is
XW: I already spoke to my L
Me: Likewise
Boss whoever you want around. It wont be me anymore.
XW: I'm not trying to boss you around
I don't have a ride home
Me: Figure it out your dad doesn't work
XW: What do you want me to do? Hitchhike back to TO?
My dad is ill
That's like me saying have your mom pick it up
You have a mother that is supportive and a sister and brother in law and boyfriend and friends.
XW: Don't be an a$$
Yes I do
And they all work and have lives
You have family too
Me: I am not. You are the social butterfly that needs adult time
XW: My mom is willing to drive to London
Me: Yes they are all raising their families
Cant help you.
Sorry
XW: Ok
Then you can come pick it up from Toronto
Me: And you will get the bill.
XW: Whatever you think Jim
I tried to work with you here
You're being unreasonable
--------------------------------------
Delete all of the above.
Me: There is no working with you, you don't respect me.
I do not need to work with anyone that doesn't respect ne.
I am doing the work
XW: I do respect you
Me: What have you done
Really
XW: Apparently nothing in your mind
Me: That is why you went online dating and left our 2 year old
XW: Yes Jim you've done all the work
Me: For your needs
XW: No Jim you kept him
XW: We were in divorce proceedings
I moved on with my life
Me: No need for me to move to toronto then
No there isn't. Your M as it was is over.
XW: You thought you'd take the kids hostage and somehow make me come back to you that way
That's your decision
I never believed you would anyway
Me: XW, we will never agree on anything anymore.
XW: Just another manipulation
projecting
No we won't
Me: I am doing the work that you asked.
Lets see if you will do the same.
As a father and for Jim you should
XW: Jim our marriage is over
Your old M is clearly done
Me: You wanted me to have the hard conversations well here we are
XW: It doesn't matter anymore
Me: Love is a choice XW
It is, and XW doesn't agree.
XW: No it's really not Jim
I don't love you anymore
Me: Ok princess go fall in love again and again
Can't tell someone what to do.
I am done wasting my time with you
Really?
I deserve someone who will accept me for who I am.
Yes.
I was willing to do that to save the marriage even with all the actions you took
Yes
You had this planned for at least a year and a half and I was the nice guy that gave you everything, never said no.
Your issue.
Goodnight.
------------------------
fact based part
XW: What dealership is the rental from?
Me: Enterprise in x city. The paperwork is in the car with their address and phone number
XW: Ok maybe I can return the car to an enterprise here
Or in Buffalo
I'll call and find out tomorrow
Keep you posted
-----------------------
Back to the playground
It would've been nice if you had enough sense to ask ahead of time
Instead of wasting all this time and energy
Me: Ask what ahead of time
The rental? I just found out today. They called and I went to get the estimate. It is not like I was slacking off.
XW: It's ok
---------------------------
Sensible? Really. You do it, no you. You. No you!
One question. Can i return the rental anywhere?
Toronto?
Me: Why are you asking me
XW: That's all you had to ask
Instead this turned into a bigger deal than it needed to be
Me: Well I had other issues to deal with. How about you do something for a change. Stop telling me what I could have done.
YOU do something
XW: Ok Jim
--------------------------
Name calling!
Me: I am pulling more than my fair share.
XW: Uh huh
Me: Narcissist
XW: You fought for this
Now deal with it
You left me for a year
You've had what? 2 months
Me: Absolutely I am. Keep projecting XW I don't care anymore
XW: I have no idea what you're talking about but fine
Me: You never have
XW: I don't want to hear how much work it is
Or how busy you are
Guess what
I know how hard it is and how much work it takes
Me: Do you
XW: I do
Hey! She chose to adopt!
Me: Not while carrying a full time job.
Fair comment
What are you going to contribute to the boys over the next 15 years? Nothing financially.
The courts will have their say in this.
XW: I know when I needed your support you told me to "shut the f up" all the time
Did you? Or is this rewriting history.
Me: Nothing I did was appreciated. I was working my a$$ off to out a down payment on an 850K house
XW: Again, I had a sound financial plan
You chose to fight against me having them
Against investing their money
That's on you
Me: Their money will be invested
XW: Well who cares now anyway
Me: You dont
I care
XW: All that money I worked so hard at saving, you worked so hard at making
You just gave it to lawyers
Even now
Me: You filed XW. Enough with the i filed first.
XW: Deal wit it Jim
Me: You gave 70K to lawyers
really this is getting out of hand!
and you could have had a diamond ring but u did not want to talk u ran away
This is matrial stuff and largely irrelevant whether love is a choice. XW has chosen.
XW: I don't love you. I don't want to be married to you.
OK
I don't want to be financially tied to you.
Me: Likewise
Tough you are both going to be.
XW: Talk about what?
Are you insane?
Me: No u are
XW: You filed for divorce and took the kids from me
Me: A mother would never leave her children
XW: There's no forgiving that
Me: These boys came from a broken home and now they are back in a broken home
XW: That's what you believe so you took them hostage to keep me a prisoner
Me: Ur free
Do what u want i dont care
XW: Well you're doing your best at making it awful for us all
The kids are unhappy
Me: Yes I am. Always the bad guy. U do no wrong
XW: They told you they wanted to live with me
Me: No they are not. They are happy and with a stable parent
XW: Ha
The courts will decide this based on the evidence you give them. This isn't helping you.
Me: Do u work
Do u contribute to them financially
XW: Is that what you want
Money from me
XW: Sad
Yes and you should want something
Me: No. I don't want anything from you
You should.
-------------------------------
accusations. If you can prove this it's a police matter.
XW: Good then stop
Me: I should have stayed with the divorce the first time
XW: Sign the "censored" papers already
Yeah I guess you should've
Me: Its not agreed on times and everything
XW: Saved us time
Me: 60 overnight a year mom
XW: Ah well
Me: U burned that money
XW: What?
Me: Their money
XW: You burned It
Me: Ok xW whatever
XW: I wanted to write this out
Without lawyers
You're an a$$ and everyone told you
Me: Then u should have written it. I wasn't going to do it for you
XW: Not to go through lawyers
I did
You never responded
Me: You stole my money you and your mother
XW: You're insane
No one stole anything from you
Me: I will never forgive you or ur family for what they did.
XW: All my family ever did was help you
You feel better getting this off your chest?
Me: I don't want to know you anymore. Really? They helped us not me. And you and them just took it monetarily.
XW: You're family was awful, truly awful to me
Me: 100K. 50% interest ha!
You never listened to your father and let a few things slide.
XW: I'm not discussing this anymore
Me: There is always an excuse with u
Goodnight
-----------------------------------
Now what else can you fight over?
XW: As for the furniture
I'll get back to you
What about the agreement do you want to change?
The drop off times?
Like you want it to be 8pm and not 5 pm
This is so ludicrous
Jim we're divorced
I don't know why you can't deal with that reality
But for the kids I would recommend you put your big boy pants on and be civil and courteous and make it the best possible situation for THEM
Me: I am XW. This is what you want.
I am civil.
XW: Ok
Me: I am looking out for me and the boys.
XW: No you're looking out for you
Me: Goodnight
XW: I don't think you care about them at all
Yes what fits my schedule
Me: Goodnight. Not talking about this anymore.
We can just email if you continue and I will uninstall this app.
You really should
XW: We have to work so that it fits in both our schedules
Me: That is why the schedule needs to be set in stone. I will follow it precisely.
Get a calendar going and complete it
-------------------------------
I am, no you aren't, yes I am, no......
XW: I know you will
Completely inflexible
Sad
It is set Jim
You agreed to it in mediation
Anyway, no trying to reason or be logical with you
Me: There is no reasoning with you
XW: I am reasonable
And flexible
Me: My world no longer revolves around you
XW: It never did Jim
Me: Ok XW
XW: It should revolve around the boys
Me: I get it so it is what it is
XW: And what's best for them
Me: It does and it will be fixed.
That will be the schedule and that is what we will stick to until each child is 18
Me: You wanted this
XW: I wanted it to be amicable
Me: So deal with it.
XW: But your incapable of that
--------------------------------
It isn't amicable at this stage. It can be agreed, if not cooperative then admin functional
Me: It is amicable.
XW: I am
No it's contentious
XW: And awful
For the boys
Me: No you want what you want with no consideration of my input and feelings
XW: No I know your feelings
And your input
Your way or the highway
It's fine
------------------------------
Me: Stop putting the boys in the middle and using them. If you cared about the boys you would understand that they want a mom and a dad living under the same roof
Maybe but isn't going to happen
XW: No that's what you want
At what cost?
Me: Yep now it is my way or the highway
XW: And that will never happen
Not with us
Me: Ok
XW: Not ever again
Me: Good because I deserve so much more
--------------------------------
This should be about the boys and the best for them. Not about money. Who they are best with is about practicalities and love, stability.
XW: They wanted to live with me
But you didn't care
It was never about them
It was always about you
Me: They can but not for the price you want. I am not a fool
XW: Ok well that's that
Me: Glad u have a home for them
XW: You'll pay double that in child care
And waste all their money
Me: No I wont
XW: No I don't
Can't afford the house
Me: I ran the numbers. I don't have to fund your nails or hair or clothes and shoes and I will save thousands
XW: Ok great
So I guess it works out then
Me: That's too bad. U said your parents were going to gift it.
What happened to your support
Nice huh
XW: Makes no sense for me to keep a house that big if it's going to sit empty
Me: Agree
-----------------------------------
Well now the true crux of the conversation. Her current bf.
So sell it after a year and go move in with ur boyfriend. Guns and motorcycle two things u never want the boys to touch
You were opposed to those things and now you are dating a guy that has both.
XW: He's a cop
Me: Nice example to set.
So what
XW: It's not like he's an outlaw
Me: Have fun with the cop. Hunters are not bad people either
XW: He doesn't kill helpless animals
Me: Hunters are not bad people either but to you they are
XW: And he's certainly not going to have a gun at the house
Or have the kids shoot it
Me: Ok
Right
Figure that out when u move in with him
That was unacceptable in my book that the boys had to meet someone so soon.
Great example you set.
XW: I'm in a serious relationship
Yeah, right!
Me: Don't text me anymore am tired of you XW and want to move on. You have no idea the damage that you caused.
Great enjoy
I don't want to know about it. I am uninstalling this app
Uninstall the app. Stop squabbling using it.
XW: Ok fine whatever then since i won't be able to freely communicate with you
I'll just ask that the boys call me every night before bed
Me: I want nothing to do with you. Your behavior disgusts me.
Buy them a phone then
XW: They're too young for a phone
Me: I am not funding you. Let ur serious relationship fund it
XW: So just have them call me
Me: No. They are kids. If they ask me yes I will. Otherwise you call
XW: No that's not how it works
I do call and you don't answer
Me: And I am going to make it clear one last time. Never call my work phone or email my work unless it is an emergency with the boys.
Yes XW that is how it works
good boundary.
XW: Well when you don't respond to me it is an emergency
Me: What two nights that we were busy
Whatever
XW: Technically that's not a justification
Me: Go find someone else to jump thru hoops for you I am done
Yes it is
Entitled princess
-------------------------
set up a schedule and stick with it. Ok.
XW: I'm entitled access to my children
That doesn't make me a princess
Me: Agree
So you can call
XW: Jim when I call you complain they're eating or shower in
You know when they're free to chat so you can call
Me: No I do not.
Goodnight.
XW: Why do you text me and make me call you when I have them?!?!
Okey dokey goodnight
Me: Then lets set times. That will be the only way this will work
XW: Yes
XW: Simple
Have them call me every night
What time works?
7:30?
Yes at long last
Me: No u call o am not calling u
XW: Great look forward to it
Ok fine I will call
Me: Lets put it in the JOD
Yes, wasn't that easy, use a calender! I am shouting very loudly!
XW: FaceTime
Yeah
I don't have long distance
You do though
Me: Not my problem
XW: That's ok
Me: Ur problem
XW: JOD is set
Me: Nope
Not signed
XW: Can't change it
The judge will sign it for you
Nov 11
Me: Yes i know
XW: Whatever
--------------------------
Here we go again
XW: You say this is amicable
You're being so childish
It's pathetic
Me: No i never did
U are the child that ran away
XW: You just did
Ok and here we go round and round
Me: No you want this to be amicable your way
XW: Get over the fact that it's over
Me: You hurt me and the boys
XW: No you hurt the boys
Me: Good riddens
Whatever
XW: You're still hurting them
Me: Whatever
XW: You'll never stop
Me: I never tell them anything negative about you. I also dont play the victim
XW: Ok
Me: That is what u do
XW: Ok
-------------------------
Has the court said she should? You have no say unless it does.
Me: Get a job and start contributing to their future
XW: Goodbye
Me: Finally. Afraid to work
Me: What comes around goes around XW
----------------------
Well. That was helpful all Around!
I do get it. You are hurting and she is entitled. There is little you can say.
Take action not words.
V
This might be the longest post I ever did.
------------------------------
So Friday night I took about 1000 steps backwards. XW and I were texting back and forth for 2 hours. I broke every DB principle.
Not quite plus I have done this too. Just not in writing in texts that can be kept. Shoot foot both in any order.
XW: Hi maybe you misunderstood
I was talking about meeting halfway tomorrow or Sunday
Let me know what day works.
Where is the shared calender? Get around these issues by having a shared Calender.
Me: Neither, I am busy.
Blunt but ok.
XW: Ok well I guess we'll be charged until you're free
Look if it's not this weekend then we're looking at a mid way exchange on either the 19/20th. Your call. I don't have anyone available to drive me back from London if it's not other of these weekends. You're more than welcome to come and pick it up from here if there's a more convenient date and time. Just let me know so I can coordinate. Thanks.
pleasant enough response
And please have the boys call me.
Reasonable request if a little demanding and non specific.
Me: XW, I understand that you must be very busy with an active social life. Glad to hear that. Guess we will have to continue to resolve things thru lawyers.
completely off grid. Delete.
Me: The boys are home if you would like to call.
Much better.
XW: If in all I incur long distance charges
Suggest Skype, messenger to cut costs for all. As in XW can we find a way to save us both costs?
When you ask me to call you I do
Show me the same courtesy
As for the car return it has nothing to do with my active social life
I have to coordinate a ride home
You set this up!
Me: Then return it as the dealer requested.
XW: I am trying to do that
You're being uncooperative
accusations all round
We can send this to the lawyers to work out if you wish
Really drive up bills?
Me: I have a full plate. I am sorry you feel I am being uncooperative
XW: I'm sure you do. Like you wanted
Me: Absolutely
Am i calling your cell for the boys to talk to you?
XW: Please and thank you
After saying she should call, you caved. Find a cheaper way.
Me: For the record this is not what I wanted.
Yes that is clear
XW: Ok Jim it's been noted
You can seem to grasp that this is happening whether you want it to or not
Spot on
If you want to continue to make this impossible that's fine
Petulant. However she has a point.
You're the one that filed in the first place.
True, factual statement
You're the one that kept the kids from me. I told you I would never forgive you for doing that but you didn't seem to comprehend the results of your actions
You are doing the best for the boys ignore.
I can't fix what you broke
Projecting
I want to get you the car back
I literally have no way home
So work with me
OK back to the car
Or we can go through lawyers and judges again
More expense
You cut my phone off
Did you advise her?
You don't respond to my texts or emails
Is this true? Do you never respond? Ever ever in the history?
You don't want it like this
No she wants it all her own way
But you are making it like this
Projecting
Me: Really, let it go XW. The past can't be fixed.
You can't tell her what to do or think.
You are smart enough to know the impact of your actions also.
Good truth dart but lost in the tit for tat.
I had a purpose for working so many hours. I feel my perspective was never understood.
Maybe you didn't explain?
XW: I know Jim. All you want to do is going around crying to everyone validating your side of the story
Don't really care anymore.
Projecting again. And yes she does.
Me: We are both to blame.
Yes, but she left.
The fact that we did this to the boys makes me sick.
Oh dear!
It is not about me.
Really! Thsee texts are though!
It is about doing the work that os required to be in a marriage.
yes it was. Use the past tense
XW: The marriage is over. Now this is about doing the work that is required of us as parents
Yes it is
Me: I am.
You are, so start parallel parenting.
What are you doing?
Nothing.
No job, just took money.
Blaming
XW: You've all but cut me out.
Not much I can do
Ignore nonsense
Me: You chose that when you filed.
You Filed TOO!
XW: I chose not to be married to you anymore
That didn't mean I chose not to be their mother
This is true
In your sick mind it's all or nothing
Abusive comment. Very abusive
Me: You chose to break up a family. Read up on it. You are the psych major. You should know the impact this has on them
I didn't run away.
are you really expecting a positive reaction to This?
XW: I left you because you're a drunk and a verbal abuser
A narcissist that can only see how things affect him
projecting
Me: Ok yes I am a drunk and a verbal abuser.
Do not agree to any negative statement she makes. None.
You are a narcissistic manipulator
Stick to behaviour, she isn't diagnosed
XW: Uh huh
Whatever you want to tell yourself
She knows, you hit the mark
Me: You don't care what divorce does to a man.
No she may not but it's mind reading
Years off my life which the boys lose out on also.
Blaming her for your reactions?
XW: All you want to do is rehash the past
Place blame
Deal with reality
You are, she isnt.
Me: Not rehashing the past.
XW: Make it better for the kids
Focus on that
You both need to do this.
Me: You need to deal with reality also.
Parallel parenting XW.
That is all.
XW: Yes that is all
I have no desire to try and do
Co parent
You have agreement then
---------------------------------
Now we have two children in a playground. My dad is bigger than yours and can beat yours up. Yes he can, no he can't.
Me: When you grow up and stop running to your mommy and daddy then maybe we can talk
XW: Says the man who's father bails him out constantly
Me: Take responsibility for your actions.
Whatever
XW: My parents are supportive
Me: So are mine.
XW: I am
Ok
In less than a week this is officially over
Whether you sign or not, whether you like it or not
--------------------------------
We were discussing how to exchange the rental
Stay on point
it is her responsibility to return it.
Me: I am happy that I will never have to fund your bad behavior
XW: I'm happy too
Look if you want to exchange this weekend you really have to let me know now
I have to coordinate my ride
Me: Do some work and take responsibility pick up the car, drive the hyundai back to toronto until you buy your own
XW: No we can exchange the vehicle
Me: Sorry busy
XW: Ok then
Onus is on you
Me: Lawyers it is
XW: I already spoke to my L
Me: Likewise
Boss whoever you want around. It wont be me anymore.
XW: I'm not trying to boss you around
I don't have a ride home
Me: Figure it out your dad doesn't work
XW: What do you want me to do? Hitchhike back to TO?
My dad is ill
That's like me saying have your mom pick it up
You have a mother that is supportive and a sister and brother in law and boyfriend and friends.
XW: Don't be an a$$
Yes I do
And they all work and have lives
You have family too
Me: I am not. You are the social butterfly that needs adult time
XW: My mom is willing to drive to London
Me: Yes they are all raising their families
Cant help you.
Sorry
XW: Ok
Then you can come pick it up from Toronto
Me: And you will get the bill.
XW: Whatever you think Jim
I tried to work with you here
You're being unreasonable
--------------------------------------
Delete all of the above.
Me: There is no working with you, you don't respect me.
I do not need to work with anyone that doesn't respect ne.
I am doing the work
XW: I do respect you
Me: What have you done
Really
XW: Apparently nothing in your mind
Me: That is why you went online dating and left our 2 year old
XW: Yes Jim you've done all the work
Me: For your needs
XW: No Jim you kept him
XW: We were in divorce proceedings
I moved on with my life
Me: No need for me to move to toronto then
No there isn't. Your M as it was is over.
XW: You thought you'd take the kids hostage and somehow make me come back to you that way
That's your decision
I never believed you would anyway
Me: XW, we will never agree on anything anymore.
XW: Just another manipulation
projecting
No we won't
Me: I am doing the work that you asked.
Lets see if you will do the same.
As a father and for Jim you should
XW: Jim our marriage is over
Your old M is clearly done
Me: You wanted me to have the hard conversations well here we are
XW: It doesn't matter anymore
Me: Love is a choice XW
It is, and XW doesn't agree.
XW: No it's really not Jim
I don't love you anymore
Me: Ok princess go fall in love again and again
Can't tell someone what to do.
I am done wasting my time with you
Really?
I deserve someone who will accept me for who I am.
Yes.
I was willing to do that to save the marriage even with all the actions you took
Yes
You had this planned for at least a year and a half and I was the nice guy that gave you everything, never said no.
Your issue.
Goodnight.
------------------------
fact based part
XW: What dealership is the rental from?
Me: Enterprise in x city. The paperwork is in the car with their address and phone number
XW: Ok maybe I can return the car to an enterprise here
Or in Buffalo
I'll call and find out tomorrow
Keep you posted
-----------------------
Back to the playground
It would've been nice if you had enough sense to ask ahead of time
Instead of wasting all this time and energy
Me: Ask what ahead of time
The rental? I just found out today. They called and I went to get the estimate. It is not like I was slacking off.
XW: It's ok
---------------------------
Sensible? Really. You do it, no you. You. No you!
One question. Can i return the rental anywhere?
Toronto?
Me: Why are you asking me
XW: That's all you had to ask
Instead this turned into a bigger deal than it needed to be
Me: Well I had other issues to deal with. How about you do something for a change. Stop telling me what I could have done.
YOU do something
XW: Ok Jim
--------------------------
Name calling!
Me: I am pulling more than my fair share.
XW: Uh huh
Me: Narcissist
XW: You fought for this
Now deal with it
You left me for a year
You've had what? 2 months
Me: Absolutely I am. Keep projecting XW I don't care anymore
XW: I have no idea what you're talking about but fine
Me: You never have
XW: I don't want to hear how much work it is
Or how busy you are
Guess what
I know how hard it is and how much work it takes
Me: Do you
XW: I do
Hey! She chose to adopt!
Me: Not while carrying a full time job.
Fair comment
What are you going to contribute to the boys over the next 15 years? Nothing financially.
The courts will have their say in this.
XW: I know when I needed your support you told me to "shut the f up" all the time
Did you? Or is this rewriting history.
Me: Nothing I did was appreciated. I was working my a$$ off to out a down payment on an 850K house
XW: Again, I had a sound financial plan
You chose to fight against me having them
Against investing their money
That's on you
Me: Their money will be invested
XW: Well who cares now anyway
Me: You dont
I care
XW: All that money I worked so hard at saving, you worked so hard at making
You just gave it to lawyers
Even now
Me: You filed XW. Enough with the i filed first.
XW: Deal wit it Jim
Me: You gave 70K to lawyers
really this is getting out of hand!
and you could have had a diamond ring but u did not want to talk u ran away
This is matrial stuff and largely irrelevant whether love is a choice. XW has chosen.
XW: I don't love you. I don't want to be married to you.
OK
I don't want to be financially tied to you.
Me: Likewise
Tough you are both going to be.
XW: Talk about what?
Are you insane?
Me: No u are
XW: You filed for divorce and took the kids from me
Me: A mother would never leave her children
XW: There's no forgiving that
Me: These boys came from a broken home and now they are back in a broken home
XW: That's what you believe so you took them hostage to keep me a prisoner
Me: Ur free
Do what u want i dont care
XW: Well you're doing your best at making it awful for us all
The kids are unhappy
Me: Yes I am. Always the bad guy. U do no wrong
XW: They told you they wanted to live with me
Me: No they are not. They are happy and with a stable parent
XW: Ha
The courts will decide this based on the evidence you give them. This isn't helping you.
Me: Do u work
Do u contribute to them financially
XW: Is that what you want
Money from me
XW: Sad
Yes and you should want something
Me: No. I don't want anything from you
You should.
-------------------------------
accusations. If you can prove this it's a police matter.
XW: Good then stop
Me: I should have stayed with the divorce the first time
XW: Sign the "censored" papers already
Yeah I guess you should've
Me: Its not agreed on times and everything
XW: Saved us time
Me: 60 overnight a year mom
XW: Ah well
Me: U burned that money
XW: What?
Me: Their money
XW: You burned It
Me: Ok xW whatever
XW: I wanted to write this out
Without lawyers
You're an a$$ and everyone told you
Me: Then u should have written it. I wasn't going to do it for you
XW: Not to go through lawyers
I did
You never responded
Me: You stole my money you and your mother
XW: You're insane
No one stole anything from you
Me: I will never forgive you or ur family for what they did.
XW: All my family ever did was help you
You feel better getting this off your chest?
Me: I don't want to know you anymore. Really? They helped us not me. And you and them just took it monetarily.
XW: You're family was awful, truly awful to me
Me: 100K. 50% interest ha!
You never listened to your father and let a few things slide.
XW: I'm not discussing this anymore
Me: There is always an excuse with u
Goodnight
-----------------------------------
Now what else can you fight over?
XW: As for the furniture
I'll get back to you
What about the agreement do you want to change?
The drop off times?
Like you want it to be 8pm and not 5 pm
This is so ludicrous
Jim we're divorced
I don't know why you can't deal with that reality
But for the kids I would recommend you put your big boy pants on and be civil and courteous and make it the best possible situation for THEM
Me: I am XW. This is what you want.
I am civil.
XW: Ok
Me: I am looking out for me and the boys.
XW: No you're looking out for you
Me: Goodnight
XW: I don't think you care about them at all
Yes what fits my schedule
Me: Goodnight. Not talking about this anymore.
We can just email if you continue and I will uninstall this app.
You really should
XW: We have to work so that it fits in both our schedules
Me: That is why the schedule needs to be set in stone. I will follow it precisely.
Get a calendar going and complete it
-------------------------------
I am, no you aren't, yes I am, no......
XW: I know you will
Completely inflexible
Sad
It is set Jim
You agreed to it in mediation
Anyway, no trying to reason or be logical with you
Me: There is no reasoning with you
XW: I am reasonable
And flexible
Me: My world no longer revolves around you
XW: It never did Jim
Me: Ok XW
XW: It should revolve around the boys
Me: I get it so it is what it is
XW: And what's best for them
Me: It does and it will be fixed.
That will be the schedule and that is what we will stick to until each child is 18
Me: You wanted this
XW: I wanted it to be amicable
Me: So deal with it.
XW: But your incapable of that
--------------------------------
It isn't amicable at this stage. It can be agreed, if not cooperative then admin functional
Me: It is amicable.
XW: I am
No it's contentious
XW: And awful
For the boys
Me: No you want what you want with no consideration of my input and feelings
XW: No I know your feelings
And your input
Your way or the highway
It's fine
------------------------------
Me: Stop putting the boys in the middle and using them. If you cared about the boys you would understand that they want a mom and a dad living under the same roof
Maybe but isn't going to happen
XW: No that's what you want
At what cost?
Me: Yep now it is my way or the highway
XW: And that will never happen
Not with us
Me: Ok
XW: Not ever again
Me: Good because I deserve so much more
--------------------------------
This should be about the boys and the best for them. Not about money. Who they are best with is about practicalities and love, stability.
XW: They wanted to live with me
But you didn't care
It was never about them
It was always about you
Me: They can but not for the price you want. I am not a fool
XW: Ok well that's that
Me: Glad u have a home for them
XW: You'll pay double that in child care
And waste all their money
Me: No I wont
XW: No I don't
Can't afford the house
Me: I ran the numbers. I don't have to fund your nails or hair or clothes and shoes and I will save thousands
XW: Ok great
So I guess it works out then
Me: That's too bad. U said your parents were going to gift it.
What happened to your support
Nice huh
XW: Makes no sense for me to keep a house that big if it's going to sit empty
Me: Agree
-----------------------------------
Well now the true crux of the conversation. Her current bf.
So sell it after a year and go move in with ur boyfriend. Guns and motorcycle two things u never want the boys to touch
You were opposed to those things and now you are dating a guy that has both.
XW: He's a cop
Me: Nice example to set.
So what
XW: It's not like he's an outlaw
Me: Have fun with the cop. Hunters are not bad people either
XW: He doesn't kill helpless animals
Me: Hunters are not bad people either but to you they are
XW: And he's certainly not going to have a gun at the house
Or have the kids shoot it
Me: Ok
Right
Figure that out when u move in with him
That was unacceptable in my book that the boys had to meet someone so soon.
Great example you set.
XW: I'm in a serious relationship
Yeah, right!
Me: Don't text me anymore am tired of you XW and want to move on. You have no idea the damage that you caused.
Great enjoy
I don't want to know about it. I am uninstalling this app
Uninstall the app. Stop squabbling using it.
XW: Ok fine whatever then since i won't be able to freely communicate with you
I'll just ask that the boys call me every night before bed
Me: I want nothing to do with you. Your behavior disgusts me.
Buy them a phone then
XW: They're too young for a phone
Me: I am not funding you. Let ur serious relationship fund it
XW: So just have them call me
Me: No. They are kids. If they ask me yes I will. Otherwise you call
XW: No that's not how it works
I do call and you don't answer
Me: And I am going to make it clear one last time. Never call my work phone or email my work unless it is an emergency with the boys.
Yes XW that is how it works
good boundary.
XW: Well when you don't respond to me it is an emergency
Me: What two nights that we were busy
Whatever
XW: Technically that's not a justification
Me: Go find someone else to jump thru hoops for you I am done
Yes it is
Entitled princess
-------------------------
set up a schedule and stick with it. Ok.
XW: I'm entitled access to my children
That doesn't make me a princess
Me: Agree
So you can call
XW: Jim when I call you complain they're eating or shower in
You know when they're free to chat so you can call
Me: No I do not.
Goodnight.
XW: Why do you text me and make me call you when I have them?!?!
Okey dokey goodnight
Me: Then lets set times. That will be the only way this will work
XW: Yes
XW: Simple
Have them call me every night
What time works?
7:30?
Yes at long last
Me: No u call o am not calling u
XW: Great look forward to it
Ok fine I will call
Me: Lets put it in the JOD
Yes, wasn't that easy, use a calender! I am shouting very loudly!
XW: FaceTime
Yeah
I don't have long distance
You do though
Me: Not my problem
XW: That's ok
Me: Ur problem
XW: JOD is set
Me: Nope
Not signed
XW: Can't change it
The judge will sign it for you
Nov 11
Me: Yes i know
XW: Whatever
--------------------------
Here we go again
XW: You say this is amicable
You're being so childish
It's pathetic
Me: No i never did
U are the child that ran away
XW: You just did
Ok and here we go round and round
Me: No you want this to be amicable your way
XW: Get over the fact that it's over
Me: You hurt me and the boys
XW: No you hurt the boys
Me: Good riddens
Whatever
XW: You're still hurting them
Me: Whatever
XW: You'll never stop
Me: I never tell them anything negative about you. I also dont play the victim
XW: Ok
Me: That is what u do
XW: Ok
-------------------------
Has the court said she should? You have no say unless it does.
Me: Get a job and start contributing to their future
XW: Goodbye
Me: Finally. Afraid to work
Me: What comes around goes around XW
----------------------
Well. That was helpful all Around!
I do get it. You are hurting and she is entitled. There is little you can say.
Take action not words.
V
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/07/16 06:48 PM
OK
ExW, there are a few practical matters to discuss.
I would like us to use an online calender and put key events on it. I have set one up on xyz and here is the log in.
To save long distance call costs I suggest we use FaceTime or Skype or..........
Every night at 7:30 the children can chat to the other parent.....
Very soon they will be old enough to set this up for themselves. If there is a problem we advise.
You have to return the car, as you suggest the best and easiest way is to the dealership. You are well able to do this I am sure.
For a number of reasons this weekend is fully booked.
I will not respond if you ring me at work. I will do my best to liase via the Calendar, any other urgent messages can be inserted on it. We can check daily.
We both want the best for the boys future irrespective of the past, we can both abide by the court rulings and the best way is to demonstrate this on a calander.
Using the app at this stage isn't helping us and I have uninstalled it.
------------------------------
Those are my thoughts Jim.
V
ExW, there are a few practical matters to discuss.
I would like us to use an online calender and put key events on it. I have set one up on xyz and here is the log in.
To save long distance call costs I suggest we use FaceTime or Skype or..........
Every night at 7:30 the children can chat to the other parent.....
Very soon they will be old enough to set this up for themselves. If there is a problem we advise.
You have to return the car, as you suggest the best and easiest way is to the dealership. You are well able to do this I am sure.
For a number of reasons this weekend is fully booked.
I will not respond if you ring me at work. I will do my best to liase via the Calendar, any other urgent messages can be inserted on it. We can check daily.
We both want the best for the boys future irrespective of the past, we can both abide by the court rulings and the best way is to demonstrate this on a calander.
Using the app at this stage isn't helping us and I have uninstalled it.
------------------------------
Those are my thoughts Jim.
V
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/07/16 07:22 PM
Ummmm. Wow *pours a double vodka*
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/08/16 09:02 AM
V,
Thank you for the comments. I will study it to ensure I do not get caught up in a mess like that again.
Below is yesterday's communication with XW, before you commented V. I think I did a little better.
XW: Hi just a heads up I dropped the car off
XW: Just want to confirm that I'm picking the kids up Friday in London
XW: I'm renting a vehicle
XW: Need to know
XW: If you want we can push back that weekend to the next
Me: Yes exchange on Friday. Please bring the key fob for the Hyundai and checkbook and credit cards from joint accounts.
XW: Ok great. Yes I'll give you the key fobs for both the Hyundai and the Chrysler. Any cards/check books I had have been shredded.
XW: What time are we meeting in London?
XW: 8?
Me: Yes
XW: Ok
Me: I would also like to put the boys birth certificates and medical cards back in the safe. Please bring those also.
XW: I will gladly bring you their medical cards. The rest is fine in the safe here. We have joint custody. I am allowed to have these documents. I can give you copies. You've proven to be very unorganized and careless with important documents and papers. Misplacing your tax returns, your W2 statements, leaving their passports in the car for weeks on end...
Me: XW, since they are with me during the school year I propose I have that information readily available. We can exchange the documentation when you have them in the summer.
XW: You're just so stubborn. I'm not sure why they need to be "readily available"
Me: Yes XW I am stubborn. Would like to have them just in case they are needed. I have no issue exchanging them when the boys are with you.
XW: Needed for what?
XW: I'm not fighting about this
XW: I'll bring them to you
Me: Agree neither am I. I am asking politely.
XW: I'm sure you'll make it beyond impossible for me to ever get them back or accessible if I ever need them
XW: Just like everything else
XW: Have you decided not to transfer to TO?
XW: Will you be staying in MI?
Me: Are you saying I am making your life difficult?
XW: You've been nothing but nasty to me the last 2 years
XW: Yes difficult beyond words
XW: But that was your goal
XW: Denying me access to the kids, denying me any say in their lives
XW: Anyway, it is what it is
Me: I see it differently
XW: I'm sure you do
XW: Whatever
Me: Sorry you feel that way. Goodbye.
XW: Will you not answer me regarding the transfer?
XW: Your lease is up at the end of the month
XW: Will you and the kids be staying at your current address? Will you be moving?
XW: Will they be changing schools again!
Me: Don’t know yet.
XW: Well please let me know when you do
XW: It is my right to know where my kids live and what school they attend
Me: Will update you when I take action. I no longer want to communicate without action.
XW: Sorry. Explain the last sentence.
XW: Communicate without action?
XW: No communication unless there's something going on?
XW: Is that what you meant?
Me: Yes.
XW: Well that's fine. I have no desire to discuss anything with you other than the children
Me: Ok
XW: Ok well have a great day. I'll be in touch later to speak to the kids
Me: You too
So I pick up the Hyundai today and am told the rental company is charging a fee to ship the rental car back to Michigan. I had to pay the shipping fee. I sent XW the bill so she can pay the amount since she chose not to drive it back.
Thank you for the comments. I will study it to ensure I do not get caught up in a mess like that again.
Below is yesterday's communication with XW, before you commented V. I think I did a little better.
XW: Hi just a heads up I dropped the car off
XW: Just want to confirm that I'm picking the kids up Friday in London
XW: I'm renting a vehicle
XW: Need to know
XW: If you want we can push back that weekend to the next
Me: Yes exchange on Friday. Please bring the key fob for the Hyundai and checkbook and credit cards from joint accounts.
XW: Ok great. Yes I'll give you the key fobs for both the Hyundai and the Chrysler. Any cards/check books I had have been shredded.
XW: What time are we meeting in London?
XW: 8?
Me: Yes
XW: Ok
Me: I would also like to put the boys birth certificates and medical cards back in the safe. Please bring those also.
XW: I will gladly bring you their medical cards. The rest is fine in the safe here. We have joint custody. I am allowed to have these documents. I can give you copies. You've proven to be very unorganized and careless with important documents and papers. Misplacing your tax returns, your W2 statements, leaving their passports in the car for weeks on end...
Me: XW, since they are with me during the school year I propose I have that information readily available. We can exchange the documentation when you have them in the summer.
XW: You're just so stubborn. I'm not sure why they need to be "readily available"
Me: Yes XW I am stubborn. Would like to have them just in case they are needed. I have no issue exchanging them when the boys are with you.
XW: Needed for what?
XW: I'm not fighting about this
XW: I'll bring them to you
Me: Agree neither am I. I am asking politely.
XW: I'm sure you'll make it beyond impossible for me to ever get them back or accessible if I ever need them
XW: Just like everything else
XW: Have you decided not to transfer to TO?
XW: Will you be staying in MI?
Me: Are you saying I am making your life difficult?
XW: You've been nothing but nasty to me the last 2 years
XW: Yes difficult beyond words
XW: But that was your goal
XW: Denying me access to the kids, denying me any say in their lives
XW: Anyway, it is what it is
Me: I see it differently
XW: I'm sure you do
XW: Whatever
Me: Sorry you feel that way. Goodbye.
XW: Will you not answer me regarding the transfer?
XW: Your lease is up at the end of the month
XW: Will you and the kids be staying at your current address? Will you be moving?
XW: Will they be changing schools again!
Me: Don’t know yet.
XW: Well please let me know when you do
XW: It is my right to know where my kids live and what school they attend
Me: Will update you when I take action. I no longer want to communicate without action.
XW: Sorry. Explain the last sentence.
XW: Communicate without action?
XW: No communication unless there's something going on?
XW: Is that what you meant?
Me: Yes.
XW: Well that's fine. I have no desire to discuss anything with you other than the children
Me: Ok
XW: Ok well have a great day. I'll be in touch later to speak to the kids
Me: You too
So I pick up the Hyundai today and am told the rental company is charging a fee to ship the rental car back to Michigan. I had to pay the shipping fee. I sent XW the bill so she can pay the amount since she chose not to drive it back.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/08/16 09:49 AM
I suggest you stick to one subject when texting. It may reduce the amount of accusations and keep emotions under control.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/08/16 10:26 AM
Hi Jim,
I think you need to work on keeping emotions out of this. This is business, pretend she is a difficult colleague. Regardless how you feel about your colleague and however rude she is, you wouldn't answer back, right?
I've made suggestions below. Anything I didn't comment on sounded just fine, so the vast majority of this was very good, IMO.
I'm pointing out the few lapses just to show that you have the full power to make this a completely calm and business-like exchange if you want to.
I think you need to work on keeping emotions out of this. This is business, pretend she is a difficult colleague. Regardless how you feel about your colleague and however rude she is, you wouldn't answer back, right?
I've made suggestions below. Anything I didn't comment on sounded just fine, so the vast majority of this was very good, IMO.
I'm pointing out the few lapses just to show that you have the full power to make this a completely calm and business-like exchange if you want to.
Originally Posted By: JimKao
V,
Thank you for the comments. I will study it to ensure I do not get caught up in a mess like that again.
Below is yesterday's communication with XW, before you commented V. I think I did a little better.
XW: Hi just a heads up I dropped the car off
XW: Just want to confirm that I'm picking the kids up Friday in London
XW: I'm renting a vehicle
XW: Need to know
XW: If you want we can push back that weekend to the next
Me: Yes exchange on Friday. Please bring the key fob for the Hyundai and checkbook and credit cards from joint accounts.
XW: Ok great. Yes I'll give you the key fobs for both the Hyundai and the Chrysler. Any cards/check books I had have been shredded.
XW: What time are we meeting in London?
XW: 8?
Me: Yes
XW: Ok
Me: I would also like to put the boys birth certificates and medical cards back in the safe. Please bring those also.
XW: I will gladly bring you their medical cards. The rest is fine in the safe here. We have joint custody. I am allowed to have these documents. I can give you copies. You've proven to be very unorganized and careless with important documents and papers. Misplacing your tax returns, your W2 statements, leaving their passports in the car for weeks on end...
Me: XW, since they are with me during the school year I propose I have that information readily available. We can exchange the documentation when you have them in the summer.
XW: You're just so stubborn. I'm not sure why they need to be "readily available"
Me: Yes XW I am stubborn. Would like to have them just in case they are needed. I have no issue exchanging them when the boys are with you.
I would have left out the 'yes XW I am stubborn.' It can come across as emotional. Don't let her get to you, keep it to business. Ignore any arrows she slings your way.
XW: Needed for what?
XW: I'm not fighting about this
XW: I'll bring them to you
Me: Agree neither am I. I am asking politely.
No need to continue the back and forth. This would be a good place to just say 'thank you'. She said she was going to do what you wanted, so no need to keep discussing.
XW: I'm sure you'll make it beyond impossible for me to ever get them back or accessible if I ever need them
XW: Just like everything else
XW: Have you decided not to transfer to TO?
XW: Will you be staying in MI?
Me: Are you saying I am making your life difficult?
What did you mean by this? It sounds like you're picking a fight. Look at the response you got - you had the power to avoid the unpleasantness below.
All you had to say here, was "I don't know what's happening yet, I will keep you informed of the development."
XW: You've been nothing but nasty to me the last 2 years
XW: Yes difficult beyond words
XW: But that was your goal
XW: Denying me access to the kids, denying me any say in their lives
XW: Anyway, it is what it is
Me: I see it differently
XW: I'm sure you do
XW: Whatever
Me: Sorry you feel that way. Goodbye.
XW: Will you not answer me regarding the transfer?
XW: Your lease is up at the end of the month
XW: Will you and the kids be staying at your current address? Will you be moving?
XW: Will they be changing schools again!
Me: Don’t know yet.
XW: Well please let me know when you do
XW: It is my right to know where my kids live and what school they attend
Me: Will update you when I take action. I no longer want to communicate without action.
XW: Sorry. Explain the last sentence.
XW: Communicate without action?
XW: No communication unless there's something going on?
XW: Is that what you meant?
Me: Yes.
XW: Well that's fine. I have no desire to discuss anything with you other than the children
Me: Ok
XW: Ok well have a great day. I'll be in touch later to speak to the kids
Me: You too
So I pick up the Hyundai today and am told the rental company is charging a fee to ship the rental car back to Michigan. I had to pay the shipping fee. I sent XW the bill so she can pay the amount since she chose not to drive it back.
Thank you for the comments. I will study it to ensure I do not get caught up in a mess like that again.
Below is yesterday's communication with XW, before you commented V. I think I did a little better.
XW: Hi just a heads up I dropped the car off
XW: Just want to confirm that I'm picking the kids up Friday in London
XW: I'm renting a vehicle
XW: Need to know
XW: If you want we can push back that weekend to the next
Me: Yes exchange on Friday. Please bring the key fob for the Hyundai and checkbook and credit cards from joint accounts.
XW: Ok great. Yes I'll give you the key fobs for both the Hyundai and the Chrysler. Any cards/check books I had have been shredded.
XW: What time are we meeting in London?
XW: 8?
Me: Yes
XW: Ok
Me: I would also like to put the boys birth certificates and medical cards back in the safe. Please bring those also.
XW: I will gladly bring you their medical cards. The rest is fine in the safe here. We have joint custody. I am allowed to have these documents. I can give you copies. You've proven to be very unorganized and careless with important documents and papers. Misplacing your tax returns, your W2 statements, leaving their passports in the car for weeks on end...
Me: XW, since they are with me during the school year I propose I have that information readily available. We can exchange the documentation when you have them in the summer.
XW: You're just so stubborn. I'm not sure why they need to be "readily available"
Me: Yes XW I am stubborn. Would like to have them just in case they are needed. I have no issue exchanging them when the boys are with you.
I would have left out the 'yes XW I am stubborn.' It can come across as emotional. Don't let her get to you, keep it to business. Ignore any arrows she slings your way.
XW: Needed for what?
XW: I'm not fighting about this
XW: I'll bring them to you
Me: Agree neither am I. I am asking politely.
No need to continue the back and forth. This would be a good place to just say 'thank you'. She said she was going to do what you wanted, so no need to keep discussing.
XW: I'm sure you'll make it beyond impossible for me to ever get them back or accessible if I ever need them
XW: Just like everything else
XW: Have you decided not to transfer to TO?
XW: Will you be staying in MI?
Me: Are you saying I am making your life difficult?
What did you mean by this? It sounds like you're picking a fight. Look at the response you got - you had the power to avoid the unpleasantness below.
All you had to say here, was "I don't know what's happening yet, I will keep you informed of the development."
XW: You've been nothing but nasty to me the last 2 years
XW: Yes difficult beyond words
XW: But that was your goal
XW: Denying me access to the kids, denying me any say in their lives
XW: Anyway, it is what it is
Me: I see it differently
XW: I'm sure you do
XW: Whatever
Me: Sorry you feel that way. Goodbye.
XW: Will you not answer me regarding the transfer?
XW: Your lease is up at the end of the month
XW: Will you and the kids be staying at your current address? Will you be moving?
XW: Will they be changing schools again!
Me: Don’t know yet.
XW: Well please let me know when you do
XW: It is my right to know where my kids live and what school they attend
Me: Will update you when I take action. I no longer want to communicate without action.
XW: Sorry. Explain the last sentence.
XW: Communicate without action?
XW: No communication unless there's something going on?
XW: Is that what you meant?
Me: Yes.
XW: Well that's fine. I have no desire to discuss anything with you other than the children
Me: Ok
XW: Ok well have a great day. I'll be in touch later to speak to the kids
Me: You too
So I pick up the Hyundai today and am told the rental company is charging a fee to ship the rental car back to Michigan. I had to pay the shipping fee. I sent XW the bill so she can pay the amount since she chose not to drive it back.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/08/16 11:13 AM
Sandi, Painter,
Thank you. It is funny, in my job, when I problem solve, I break things down into definitive action oriented tasks.
I need to do the same here. Address one task and/or subject at a time.
I have parent teacher conferences this evening for the boys. I know that they are doing OK and that most of the discussion will be around their behavior. Do I update XW on this. She has not asked anything about how they are doing in school. If I do, all she will do is project and blame me as she has in the past when I have mentioned things like this. Which of course this time I will not respond as it will get me nowhere.
Thank you. It is funny, in my job, when I problem solve, I break things down into definitive action oriented tasks.
I need to do the same here. Address one task and/or subject at a time.
I have parent teacher conferences this evening for the boys. I know that they are doing OK and that most of the discussion will be around their behavior. Do I update XW on this. She has not asked anything about how they are doing in school. If I do, all she will do is project and blame me as she has in the past when I have mentioned things like this. Which of course this time I will not respond as it will get me nowhere.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/08/16 01:37 PM
Is XW in direct contact with the boys' school?
It is up to each parent to get connected and ask the school for information, but as the custodial parent you do have more of a responsibility to keep her informed and help facilitate the distribution of information.
I would let her know the highlights and add the contact information to the teacher(s) in case she would like more details. That way you've done your duty but steered her towards the school for more info.
You can also go above and beyond and supply the school with pre-addressed, stamped envelopes for her so they can mail copies of information.
It is up to each parent to get connected and ask the school for information, but as the custodial parent you do have more of a responsibility to keep her informed and help facilitate the distribution of information.
I would let her know the highlights and add the contact information to the teacher(s) in case she would like more details. That way you've done your duty but steered her towards the school for more info.
You can also go above and beyond and supply the school with pre-addressed, stamped envelopes for her so they can mail copies of information.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/08/16 01:41 PM
I wanted to emphasize what Vanilla said:
"Me: Ok yes I am a drunk and a verbal abuser."
Vanilla said: "Do not agree to any negative statement she makes. None."
This is extremely dangerous. She can use this in court to take custody away from you. You can say all you want that it was sarcasm, but it can be used against you.
Ignore, ignore, ignore.
"Me: Ok yes I am a drunk and a verbal abuser."
Vanilla said: "Do not agree to any negative statement she makes. None."
This is extremely dangerous. She can use this in court to take custody away from you. You can say all you want that it was sarcasm, but it can be used against you.
Ignore, ignore, ignore.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/08/16 07:24 PM
I think yours second conversation was much better, you kept it on task. When she spews, validate but don't agree.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/08/16 09:15 PM
It seems like these arguments are over nothing. I mean, is having copies really that big of a deal for you to have? Heck, if it's that important for you to have originals just get another from the state. In FL it's about $8 and you fill out a form and take it to the health department and they print it right there. Just seems like mountains are made from mole hills just to be right or to get your way. Not worth it sometimes.
This 2nd exchange was way better but, still could have been reduced significantly. She says stuff to get a rise out of you and you take the bait. Mix it up on her and don't play the game.
This 2nd exchange was way better but, still could have been reduced significantly. She says stuff to get a rise out of you and you take the bait. Mix it up on her and don't play the game.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/09/16 04:53 AM
Originally Posted By: j20a00g
It seems like these arguments are over nothing. I mean, is having copies really that big of a deal for you to have? Heck, if it's that important for you to have originals just get another from the state. In FL it's about $8 and you fill out a form and take it to the health department and they print it right there. Just seems like mountains are made from mole hills just to be right or to get your way. Not worth it sometimes.
This 2nd exchange was way better but, still could have been reduced significantly. She says stuff to get a rise out of you and you take the bait. Mix it up on her and don't play the game.
This 2nd exchange was way better but, still could have been reduced significantly. She says stuff to get a rise out of you and you take the bait. Mix it up on her and don't play the game.
Well said j20!
Well said.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/09/16 07:52 AM
Thank you for the feedback everyone.
Why does it hurt when I do something nice for her.
She just sent a text asking if I get a discount on a certain model vehicle. She said she needs to get one asap.
I replied that I sent her the discount code 3 months ago.
She said I did not explain why? She then thanked me.
Why does it hurt when I do something nice for her.
She just sent a text asking if I get a discount on a certain model vehicle. She said she needs to get one asap.
I replied that I sent her the discount code 3 months ago.
She said I did not explain why? She then thanked me.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/09/16 07:54 AM
I also had parent teacher conferences yesterday for the boys. I have some documentation that shows their progress.
xW has never brought up any conversation about the boys progress in school. Do I email her the documents or let it go?
xW has never brought up any conversation about the boys progress in school. Do I email her the documents or let it go?
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/09/16 08:02 AM
Originally Posted By: JimKao
Thank you for the feedback everyone.
Why does it hurt when I do something nice for her.
She just sent a text asking if I get a discount on a certain model vehicle. She said she needs to get one asap.
I replied that I sent her the discount code 3 months ago.
She said I did not explain why? She then thanked me.
Why does it hurt when I do something nice for her.
She just sent a text asking if I get a discount on a certain model vehicle. She said she needs to get one asap.
I replied that I sent her the discount code 3 months ago.
She said I did not explain why? She then thanked me.
So that's why you are so nit picky with her. Because you say it hurts to do something nice for her.
So you feel like if you give her a harder time it will make you feel better? I don't think it really does. it will certainly make your life more difficult. I don't think you really want that.
It hurts you to do something "nice" because you want it reciprocated and appreciated, but in a way that isn't possible.
So you can refrain your doing something nice for HER to doing something nice for your KIDS.
And if something you don't want to do that won't impact the kids at all, then it's your choice not to do it.
But the push back on simple tasks is hurting you more than it's hurting her.
You are still extremely emotionally attached. This will become clearer as you detach. But try taking your feelings out of your decisions and actions and see what happens.
just so you know, giving a discount that you can easily give with no cost to you on a car that your children will be passengers in will become a simple gesture that won't effect your emotions one day
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/09/16 08:02 AM
I meant "reframe", not "refrain"
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/09/16 08:03 AM
Originally Posted By: JimKao
I also had parent teacher conferences yesterday for the boys. I have some documentation that shows their progress.
xW has never brought up any conversation about the boys progress in school. Do I email her the documents or let it go?
xW has never brought up any conversation about the boys progress in school. Do I email her the documents or let it go?
You email it to her, and let her do what she will with it.
You don't want it to come back and bite you in the butt that you didn't. Don't overthink anything. If it pertains to the boys, share it.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/09/16 08:25 AM
Was the comment "I emailed it to you 3 months ago" really necessary? Again, simple conversation that you were looking to turn into a full blown argument.
Ofcourse you send the report on the kids over.
Dude cmon. Step back and pretend it wasn't you saying this stuff....would you read someone else doing it and think it was right? Better yet, switch places with her...would you find these types of intentional jabs as beneficial for anyone?
Ofcourse you send the report on the kids over.
Dude cmon. Step back and pretend it wasn't you saying this stuff....would you read someone else doing it and think it was right? Better yet, switch places with her...would you find these types of intentional jabs as beneficial for anyone?
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/09/16 10:05 AM
Originally Posted By: Painter
Is XW in direct contact with the boys' school?
It is up to each parent to get connected and ask the school for information, but as the custodial parent you do have more of a responsibility to keep her informed and help facilitate the distribution of information.
I would let her know the highlights and add the contact information to the teacher(s) in case she would like more details. That way you've done your duty but steered her towards the school for more info.
You can also go above and beyond and supply the school with pre-addressed, stamped envelopes for her so they can mail copies of information.
It is up to each parent to get connected and ask the school for information, but as the custodial parent you do have more of a responsibility to keep her informed and help facilitate the distribution of information.
I would let her know the highlights and add the contact information to the teacher(s) in case she would like more details. That way you've done your duty but steered her towards the school for more info.
You can also go above and beyond and supply the school with pre-addressed, stamped envelopes for her so they can mail copies of information.
I think perhaps this post was skipped because it was at the bottom of the previous page and I posted another after it.
This is what I have experienced would be the best way to handle it based my volunteer work with divorced families across the country.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/09/16 03:01 PM
I guess I am not as detached as I thought I was.
Still struggling to accept this as the reality.
I am sure there are a lot of ways to perceive things and make it about the boys. Based on the feedback I am getting, maybe I am being nit picky and childish a bit.
Was the comment needed about sending it 3 months ago? The intent was to let her know the timeframe I sent her the discount, it was not intended to be sarcastic or negative.
I will send her the info on the boys from the conference.
Still struggling to accept this as the reality.
I am sure there are a lot of ways to perceive things and make it about the boys. Based on the feedback I am getting, maybe I am being nit picky and childish a bit.
Was the comment needed about sending it 3 months ago? The intent was to let her know the timeframe I sent her the discount, it was not intended to be sarcastic or negative.
I will send her the info on the boys from the conference.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/09/16 03:11 PM
But if she had it from 3 months ago why would she have asked? I'm not saying walk on eggshells. Forget that. But definitely try to avoid anything that could start one of the back And forths that have been happening.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/09/16 08:25 PM
Please get an online shared Schedule!
V
V
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/09/16 08:27 PM
Look at ourfamilywizzard with your L.
Just saying
V
Just saying
V
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/10/16 08:10 PM
Yesterday I sent xW an email regarding S6's behavior in school. He has detention tomorrow. I also told her I had parent teacher conferences and that I would send her the status on the boys and how they are doing. Here is her response back.
Jim,
S6 wanted very much to live with me. He's very upset by the decision to remain in your custody through the school year. I expect this behavior to continue and further regress. He's acting out because it's the only way he feels in control and it's his way of showing his displeasure and his way of seeking attention and help.
I know in your heart you believed you were doing what you thought was right but I'm sorry, I don't think this custody arrangement is in the best interest of the children at all.
Short of changing your mind on the matter I don't think there's much to be done.
I did not respond. I know she is a psych major and she feels that the boys would be better off with her while they are young. She and I fundamentally have clear differences on the right way to raise a family.
Jim,
S6 wanted very much to live with me. He's very upset by the decision to remain in your custody through the school year. I expect this behavior to continue and further regress. He's acting out because it's the only way he feels in control and it's his way of showing his displeasure and his way of seeking attention and help.
I know in your heart you believed you were doing what you thought was right but I'm sorry, I don't think this custody arrangement is in the best interest of the children at all.
Short of changing your mind on the matter I don't think there's much to be done.
I did not respond. I know she is a psych major and she feels that the boys would be better off with her while they are young. She and I fundamentally have clear differences on the right way to raise a family.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/12/16 07:39 AM
I am double degreed, I have a psych major as well as a chemistry major. Also, I am a mental health professional and an MD. Your wife is projecting like whoa! Small children can say they want to live here or there but the fact of the matter is, they need to be with the most stable parent. For her to say that the only solution is to uproot your son and move him to Canada, away from you and his siblings, is preposterous.
You did the right thing by informing her of your sons' situation, you also did the right thing by not responding to her "opinion" of what will fix the problem. Keep doing what works.
You did the right thing by informing her of your sons' situation, you also did the right thing by not responding to her "opinion" of what will fix the problem. Keep doing what works.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/12/16 12:22 PM
Didn't she earlier just want the youngest?
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/15/16 03:20 AM
Painter,
Yes, way in the beginning she just wanted the youngest. XW just continues to say what ever she feels.
Well this past Friday we both signed the final documents. Since it was Veteran's Day the courts were closed, so I think they went in front of the judge today. My L did not get confirmation yet.
xW had the boys this weekend. We exchanged on Friday at 7pm, met halfway. She had a rental and MIL with her. She went to the wrong location and then drove to us.
I went out with some buddies when I returned home and got a lot done this past weekend. It was nice to have a bit of a break to be able to clean the van and catch up on some things and get my life back on track for the boys.
Picked up the boys on Sunday. They said they had a good time. xW took them to a hotel for the weekend. Boys said mom stated FIL was not feeling well so they could not stay at the in laws house. They had fun swimming and just hung out at the hotel mostly. Boys were exhausted when I brought them home.
This exchange was not only inconvenient for me, it was inconvenient for the boys. They were exhausted. I let them sleep in the next morning because we came home a little late.
I also found out that xW did not look in their backpacks so their homework was not completed even though I emailed her on Saturday. I emailed my L and she said I need to document. I also emailed the teachers and stated I would have the boys complete the homework this evening to return on Tuesday. They all thanked me.
Tonight I sent xW an email regarding S6. Today after school he stated that mommy asked if he was going to therapy and was on medication this past weekend.
Here is the email I sent xW:
In the future, I feel it would be more appropriate to ask me if S6 is seeing a therapist or is on medication. This evening he stated that you asked him these questions this weekend. I would not put him on any medication or take him to therapy without informing and consulting you first.
xW response:
I was speaking to my son regarding his behaviour at school.
You have most definitely have not been forthcoming with any information about the children whatsoever.
May I ask why only S8 received a flu shot and none of the other children? And did Dr. X know he was home that day with a fever? I'm certain he would not have administered the vaccine if he did.
My response:
S8 had to get a refill on his medication. S8 did not have a fever when he went to see Dr. X.
As far as the boys behavior in school, are you saying you would like more information on them? If so, I can send you their teachers email address so you may be copied on all issues regarding the boys.
I then sent a separate email asking if she agreed to my last proposal on the furniture in the house. This conversation is for another post as it is escalating out of control and we are emailing back and forth even as I write this post.
Yes, way in the beginning she just wanted the youngest. XW just continues to say what ever she feels.
Well this past Friday we both signed the final documents. Since it was Veteran's Day the courts were closed, so I think they went in front of the judge today. My L did not get confirmation yet.
xW had the boys this weekend. We exchanged on Friday at 7pm, met halfway. She had a rental and MIL with her. She went to the wrong location and then drove to us.
I went out with some buddies when I returned home and got a lot done this past weekend. It was nice to have a bit of a break to be able to clean the van and catch up on some things and get my life back on track for the boys.
Picked up the boys on Sunday. They said they had a good time. xW took them to a hotel for the weekend. Boys said mom stated FIL was not feeling well so they could not stay at the in laws house. They had fun swimming and just hung out at the hotel mostly. Boys were exhausted when I brought them home.
This exchange was not only inconvenient for me, it was inconvenient for the boys. They were exhausted. I let them sleep in the next morning because we came home a little late.
I also found out that xW did not look in their backpacks so their homework was not completed even though I emailed her on Saturday. I emailed my L and she said I need to document. I also emailed the teachers and stated I would have the boys complete the homework this evening to return on Tuesday. They all thanked me.
Tonight I sent xW an email regarding S6. Today after school he stated that mommy asked if he was going to therapy and was on medication this past weekend.
Here is the email I sent xW:
In the future, I feel it would be more appropriate to ask me if S6 is seeing a therapist or is on medication. This evening he stated that you asked him these questions this weekend. I would not put him on any medication or take him to therapy without informing and consulting you first.
xW response:
I was speaking to my son regarding his behaviour at school.
You have most definitely have not been forthcoming with any information about the children whatsoever.
May I ask why only S8 received a flu shot and none of the other children? And did Dr. X know he was home that day with a fever? I'm certain he would not have administered the vaccine if he did.
My response:
S8 had to get a refill on his medication. S8 did not have a fever when he went to see Dr. X.
As far as the boys behavior in school, are you saying you would like more information on them? If so, I can send you their teachers email address so you may be copied on all issues regarding the boys.
I then sent a separate email asking if she agreed to my last proposal on the furniture in the house. This conversation is for another post as it is escalating out of control and we are emailing back and forth even as I write this post.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/15/16 07:05 PM
Quote:
As far as the boys behavior in school, are you saying you would like more information on them? If so, I can send you their teachers email address so you may be copied on all issues regarding the boys.
I think this is an excellent idea. Unfortunately she will parent however she chooses, calling her on conversations with your son comes across controlling. Frankly she can discuss whatever she wants and there is nothing you can do about it. She can even have the boys calling her flavor-of-the month Daddy if she chooses. I am not saying this to make you feel bad but to frame this properly, you cannot control anything she does or says with your sons when they are with her. Short of safety issues you have no say in her parenting technique. The best you can hope for right now is parallel parenting, not even co-parenting.
Your best option is to maintain your stready, solid presence when they are with you. You are their only consistent presence right now. I liked that you came up with a solution based answer to her dig, having her copied on school and medical meetings is a fantastic idea.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/16/16 10:26 PM
Still ping pong emails?
Stop!
V
Stop!
V
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/17/16 04:01 AM
Thank you Sara,
I truly do understand I cannot control any conversations that she has with the boys or what she does. My intent was to communicate that if she had any concerns with the boys on therapy or medication to discuss with me.
V,
I am trying very hard to not ping pong, I truly am.
Two days ago we ping ponged again over division of the furniture. I will spare the details of the emails. The one response that stood out to me is the following from XW.
XW: I offered a more than fair list (whatever you had "pre-marriage" is the same as the gifted stuff. So stop throwing that around like it means something. I mean honestly I made it more than fair. Making sure all the big ticket items our parents purchased for us went to the proper person.
She continues to comment and act on feelings and emotions. I won't even call it entitlement anymore. Even my L agreed after she saw the email chain that just because XW's parents bought the household items does not mean that XW owns them.
Yesterday I think I did a bit better with less ping pong.
Here are the texts:
XW: Any word on what's happening with the division of property?
Me: Nope
Me: What weekend would you like to have your visit in December?
XW: I get the kids for Christmas
XW: Their last day is the 22 or 23?
Me: 22nd and you have them until 9pm on the 24th this year.
XW: No that's not right
Me: Read the agreement.
XW: It's an even year so I have them on Christmas
Me: You have them odd years
XW: Oh
XW: Ok fine whatever
XW: So I guess I get them the 28 or 29? They go back on the 4th?
Me: No read the agreement. Have to get back to work
XW: I've read the agreement Jim
XW: You want them the whole break? Fine
XW: I'm done fighting with you
XW: As for the property we can put it all up for grabs
Me: We are going to arbitration
XW: And whatever neither of us wants well sell and split
XW: Well I don't want any of it
XW: It's not worth paying to move it and store it here
XW: I don't have the money to do that
Me: That must be tough
XW: Yes it is
XW: As far as the agreement goes
XW: We split the Christmas break
XW: And I get the kids this Christmas Day
XW: So I would have them from the 22 to about the 28
XW: We split it in half
XW: Just spoke to the lawyer
XW: I'm right
XW: We split half the break
XW: If having them on Christmas Day is a big deal to you I don't care if you have them from the 22-28/29
XW: Just let me know so I can arrange things on my end
So at this point I send XW an email and copy my L.
Per our text conversation earlier today, we are not in agreement with the Christmas Break parenting time which now falls to the default schedule B (I copy the paragraphs of the agreement and schedule into the email).
XW: Jim I'm very confused by this
XW: Do you want me to only have the kids 2 days over the break and you get the rest of the time?
XW: Is that what's "in dispute"?
XW: Are you seriously not willing to split the time evenly?
XW: Well I guess the best weekend for me to have the kids would be December 2, 3 and 4 to space out the traveling for them.
Me: Ok
XW: Any chance you'd want to meet earlier than 7 on that Friday?
XW: Traffic going to London at that time is crazy
Me: Nope
XW: Ok
Later in the afternoon I send a follow up text:
Me: We are following the schedule in the JOD. This applies to me next year.
XW: Oh whatever Jim, this would not apply to you next year, you know why? Because I would split the Christmas break 50/50 with you. Because that would be the kind and decent and right thing to do not only as a person but more so as a parent because the boys should enjoy the holidays with each of us.
I really don't know how to take this last comment of hers. If XW and I were separated maybe I would agree to a split for the holidays, but I see things more black and white, this is what she wanted so this is what we will stick to.
Am I being unreasonable? My M is over, the agreement is signed by both of us, the judge still has to sign and it has been almost a year we have been apart and a year and a half since BD.
I truly do understand I cannot control any conversations that she has with the boys or what she does. My intent was to communicate that if she had any concerns with the boys on therapy or medication to discuss with me.
V,
I am trying very hard to not ping pong, I truly am.
Two days ago we ping ponged again over division of the furniture. I will spare the details of the emails. The one response that stood out to me is the following from XW.
XW: I offered a more than fair list (whatever you had "pre-marriage" is the same as the gifted stuff. So stop throwing that around like it means something. I mean honestly I made it more than fair. Making sure all the big ticket items our parents purchased for us went to the proper person.
She continues to comment and act on feelings and emotions. I won't even call it entitlement anymore. Even my L agreed after she saw the email chain that just because XW's parents bought the household items does not mean that XW owns them.
Yesterday I think I did a bit better with less ping pong.
Here are the texts:
XW: Any word on what's happening with the division of property?
Me: Nope
Me: What weekend would you like to have your visit in December?
XW: I get the kids for Christmas
XW: Their last day is the 22 or 23?
Me: 22nd and you have them until 9pm on the 24th this year.
XW: No that's not right
Me: Read the agreement.
XW: It's an even year so I have them on Christmas
Me: You have them odd years
XW: Oh
XW: Ok fine whatever
XW: So I guess I get them the 28 or 29? They go back on the 4th?
Me: No read the agreement. Have to get back to work
XW: I've read the agreement Jim
XW: You want them the whole break? Fine
XW: I'm done fighting with you
XW: As for the property we can put it all up for grabs
Me: We are going to arbitration
XW: And whatever neither of us wants well sell and split
XW: Well I don't want any of it
XW: It's not worth paying to move it and store it here
XW: I don't have the money to do that
Me: That must be tough
XW: Yes it is
XW: As far as the agreement goes
XW: We split the Christmas break
XW: And I get the kids this Christmas Day
XW: So I would have them from the 22 to about the 28
XW: We split it in half
XW: Just spoke to the lawyer
XW: I'm right
XW: We split half the break
XW: If having them on Christmas Day is a big deal to you I don't care if you have them from the 22-28/29
XW: Just let me know so I can arrange things on my end
So at this point I send XW an email and copy my L.
Per our text conversation earlier today, we are not in agreement with the Christmas Break parenting time which now falls to the default schedule B (I copy the paragraphs of the agreement and schedule into the email).
XW: Jim I'm very confused by this
XW: Do you want me to only have the kids 2 days over the break and you get the rest of the time?
XW: Is that what's "in dispute"?
XW: Are you seriously not willing to split the time evenly?
XW: Well I guess the best weekend for me to have the kids would be December 2, 3 and 4 to space out the traveling for them.
Me: Ok
XW: Any chance you'd want to meet earlier than 7 on that Friday?
XW: Traffic going to London at that time is crazy
Me: Nope
XW: Ok
Later in the afternoon I send a follow up text:
Me: We are following the schedule in the JOD. This applies to me next year.
XW: Oh whatever Jim, this would not apply to you next year, you know why? Because I would split the Christmas break 50/50 with you. Because that would be the kind and decent and right thing to do not only as a person but more so as a parent because the boys should enjoy the holidays with each of us.
I really don't know how to take this last comment of hers. If XW and I were separated maybe I would agree to a split for the holidays, but I see things more black and white, this is what she wanted so this is what we will stick to.
Am I being unreasonable? My M is over, the agreement is signed by both of us, the judge still has to sign and it has been almost a year we have been apart and a year and a half since BD.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/17/16 05:46 AM
Quote:
XW: It's not worth paying to move it and store it here
XW: I don't have the money to do that
Me: That must be tough
XW: I don't have the money to do that
Me: That must be tough
Jim, I think you need to just stop trying to validate her when texting, until things settle down. It does not sound like validation. It almost seems hateful at times. I don't think you mean it hatefully, but that's how I would see if I were in her position.
I don't know how to advise you about the holidays, since she lives away from your city.. If you give in to her, then it will be that way for every holiday. It may be, anyway. As you said, next year you will be the one without them.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/17/16 06:07 AM
Sandi
Ok, at this point whether I validate or not she still has it in her head that I am the one at fault. Unless I agree to her terms or comments or actions everything is not ok by her perspective.
I am trying to minimize any texting and email conversations we have.
Ok, at this point whether I validate or not she still has it in her head that I am the one at fault. Unless I agree to her terms or comments or actions everything is not ok by her perspective.
I am trying to minimize any texting and email conversations we have.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/17/16 10:39 AM
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Quote:
XW: It's not worth paying to move it and store it here
XW: I don't have the money to do that
Me: That must be tough
XW: I don't have the money to do that
Me: That must be tough
Jim, I think you need to just stop trying to validate her when texting, until things settle down. It does not sound like validation. It almost seems hateful at times. I don't think you mean it hatefully, but that's how I would see if I were in her position.
I don't know how to advise you about the holidays, since she lives away from your city.. If you give in to her, then it will be that way for every holiday. It may be, anyway. As you said, next year you will be the one without them.
It sounds sarcastic because it's via text so it comes through emotionally 'flat'. In person, you use tone and facial expression to convey your meaning.
On the kids - if there's a good reason that the agreement is written that way, stick to the agreement. When in doubt, stick to the agreement.
Why didn't she ask for this holiday split before the agreement was signed if that was what she wanted? If she wants to change it, she can pay for her L to make an amendment it and present it to you. Don't give in to her requests with a promise of returning the favor next year.
You're seriously fighting over furniture? It's all marital property, unless you have valuable family heirlooms and ask for them to be kept separate.
Second-hand value of furniture is neglible. Split it evenly and be done with it. She has to take care of her half - not your job to move, store or sell for her.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/17/16 11:12 AM
Painter,
I am not fighting over anything. If I do not agree with XW's logic then in her eyes it is a fight.
My L suggested I sit on this issue. We have until Nov 30th to resolve. XW's last text was keep it all. I will send a message tomorrow stating that based on her last text she is forfeiting ownership of the storage unit and then she can react to that.
I am not fighting over anything. If I do not agree with XW's logic then in her eyes it is a fight.
My L suggested I sit on this issue. We have until Nov 30th to resolve. XW's last text was keep it all. I will send a message tomorrow stating that based on her last text she is forfeiting ownership of the storage unit and then she can react to that.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/18/16 02:06 AM
On the plus side, I have a lot of vacation that I am taking which allows me to catch up on reorganizing in the apartment.
I get an email from S6's teacher, he has a laundry list of aggressive behavior yesterday.
I forward the email to L, L says to talk to the psychologist from the D proceedings and get a referral to a good child psychologist. Calling her later today.
Not sure how to communicate this to XW as I know the response will be "they want to live with me".
I spoke with S6 in a very calm voice and asked him to come and sit next to me. I asked him if he had a good day, he actually told the truth and said no and started to go down the list of things he did.
I asked him why he is so angry and he said he is angry about mom and I and that he wants us to be together. I gave him lots of hugs and said that we both love him and things will be ok and that if the anger comes back that he can come and talk to me and we will figure out how to get rid of the anger. I told him I will always be there for him.
S6 has been the most problematic with behavior but the others are starting to escalate also. I signed S8 up in some art expression at school which the social workers recommended at the school to help him.
Need to figure out what to do for S7. S4 has always been defiant but his behavior is starting to get worse in daycare and of course S2 is starting to mimic the older brothers.
IDK, sometimes I feel like I am not doing the right thing. That I should let XW cake eat and try and do things as a family and be more flexible and build a friendship with her and maybe who knows one day.
I get an email from S6's teacher, he has a laundry list of aggressive behavior yesterday.
I forward the email to L, L says to talk to the psychologist from the D proceedings and get a referral to a good child psychologist. Calling her later today.
Not sure how to communicate this to XW as I know the response will be "they want to live with me".
I spoke with S6 in a very calm voice and asked him to come and sit next to me. I asked him if he had a good day, he actually told the truth and said no and started to go down the list of things he did.
I asked him why he is so angry and he said he is angry about mom and I and that he wants us to be together. I gave him lots of hugs and said that we both love him and things will be ok and that if the anger comes back that he can come and talk to me and we will figure out how to get rid of the anger. I told him I will always be there for him.
S6 has been the most problematic with behavior but the others are starting to escalate also. I signed S8 up in some art expression at school which the social workers recommended at the school to help him.
Need to figure out what to do for S7. S4 has always been defiant but his behavior is starting to get worse in daycare and of course S2 is starting to mimic the older brothers.
IDK, sometimes I feel like I am not doing the right thing. That I should let XW cake eat and try and do things as a family and be more flexible and build a friendship with her and maybe who knows one day.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/18/16 11:33 AM
You really have your plate full. I hope you get some emotional/mental relief soon. I really respect the way you are trying to take care of your sons. Having one child to go through what your five have experienced, is more than some parents could handle. Don't give up, Jim. This school year will probably be rough for them b/c they may feel all of this stuff happened to them, yet they had no say about it. I'm glad you are getting therapists for them.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/18/16 12:11 PM
JimKao,
I would recommend checking out Karate Dojo's in your area. My experience with my son is that Karate is a great outlet for kids, and if you can find a good Sensei, your kids will learn a great deal about respect, discipline and have another role model in their lives. Karate had an amazing impact in my sons life.
I would recommend checking out Karate Dojo's in your area. My experience with my son is that Karate is a great outlet for kids, and if you can find a good Sensei, your kids will learn a great deal about respect, discipline and have another role model in their lives. Karate had an amazing impact in my sons life.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/18/16 12:28 PM
Great idea!!
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/18/16 10:17 PM
Wow, I'm amazed that you are still going strong months later....!
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/20/16 05:44 AM
Jim
I have fostered difficult teenagers. And a couple of younger children.
The kids take their lead from you.
Please stop this tussle with WW. The stress in you is distress and hurting you.
I have the most enormous admiration and respect for you. I am probably one of your greatest fans and silently cheer (and now not so silently) on the sidelines. I read your posts and truly I want to see you detach from WW. I want you to stop the ping pong interactions, as it seems that you may actively seeking these as a way of maintaining contact. Let go.
I will keep saying this over and over, have an online calender remove much of the stress and hence the distress.
A more chilled Jim is my desire so you can truly enjoy the energy these little mischief makers bring to your life. You have such gifts and an amazing amount of love.
I truly respect you for that.
This is important Jim, please let go, detach and find sensible ways of interacting with your WW. I simply don't think this is assisting YOU.
Hugs
V
I have fostered difficult teenagers. And a couple of younger children.
The kids take their lead from you.
Please stop this tussle with WW. The stress in you is distress and hurting you.
I have the most enormous admiration and respect for you. I am probably one of your greatest fans and silently cheer (and now not so silently) on the sidelines. I read your posts and truly I want to see you detach from WW. I want you to stop the ping pong interactions, as it seems that you may actively seeking these as a way of maintaining contact. Let go.
I will keep saying this over and over, have an online calender remove much of the stress and hence the distress.
A more chilled Jim is my desire so you can truly enjoy the energy these little mischief makers bring to your life. You have such gifts and an amazing amount of love.
I truly respect you for that.
This is important Jim, please let go, detach and find sensible ways of interacting with your WW. I simply don't think this is assisting YOU.
Hugs
V
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/20/16 09:15 AM
Cnut,
Thank you for the suggestion. I plan on signing the boys up for swim lessons, karate and other things as soon as I move to TO (short for Toronto). We had them signed up before.
I have my meeting with HR on the 22nd to discuss the logistics of the transfer.
XW has not called all week to talk to the boys.
GAL has been better, I went out for a nice dinner on Friday with a friend. Saturday S8's godparents came to visit and we had breakfast and then went to an indoor trampoline park. Bought all day passes so we went back in the evening after nap time and then had dinner and we all went to bed! Today is clean up day around the house. It is windy and very cold so good to just stay in and be lazy (pajama day).
Received another email from S6's teacher. I sent XW an email this morning to get her approval to take him to therapy. Awaiting response back.
V,
I thank you for the continued support! I know someday I will be detached, I just truly do not know when. I continue to work on it though.
I am much more calm and chill, I do enjoy my boys immensely! As crazy as things can get with them, they are great!
Maybe I am misinterpreting the tough love also. IDK, I can see where XW sees it as punishing to her. Amicable and being friends to be the best co-parents to these boys is the easy way out for her IMO.
I am trying to prepare myself mentally to get there, especially when I move up there but it is a difficult pill for me to swallow.
I feel like I have to transform into a person that has no feelings or emotions to get there. That is just not me.
I am not even sure if the judge has even signed the judgment yet. There has been a backlog of papers in her court and I have not received confirmation from my L, LOL! It is kind of insane how long this whole thing has dragged on with delays.
Oh well, life goes on! I will do the best I can with the time that has been given to me.
Thank you for the suggestion. I plan on signing the boys up for swim lessons, karate and other things as soon as I move to TO (short for Toronto). We had them signed up before.
I have my meeting with HR on the 22nd to discuss the logistics of the transfer.
XW has not called all week to talk to the boys.
GAL has been better, I went out for a nice dinner on Friday with a friend. Saturday S8's godparents came to visit and we had breakfast and then went to an indoor trampoline park. Bought all day passes so we went back in the evening after nap time and then had dinner and we all went to bed! Today is clean up day around the house. It is windy and very cold so good to just stay in and be lazy (pajama day).
Received another email from S6's teacher. I sent XW an email this morning to get her approval to take him to therapy. Awaiting response back.
V,
I thank you for the continued support! I know someday I will be detached, I just truly do not know when. I continue to work on it though.
I am much more calm and chill, I do enjoy my boys immensely! As crazy as things can get with them, they are great!
Maybe I am misinterpreting the tough love also. IDK, I can see where XW sees it as punishing to her. Amicable and being friends to be the best co-parents to these boys is the easy way out for her IMO.
I am trying to prepare myself mentally to get there, especially when I move up there but it is a difficult pill for me to swallow.
I feel like I have to transform into a person that has no feelings or emotions to get there. That is just not me.
I am not even sure if the judge has even signed the judgment yet. There has been a backlog of papers in her court and I have not received confirmation from my L, LOL! It is kind of insane how long this whole thing has dragged on with delays.
Oh well, life goes on! I will do the best I can with the time that has been given to me.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/20/16 11:29 AM
Jim - If you have questions about Toronto let me know. I lived there for a number of years and one of the offices that I shuttle between is in the centre of that city.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/20/16 12:32 PM
Thank you Andrew! I will not be shy to ask for help if needed.
On another note, XW will not agree to let me take the boys to therapy. She continues to state that they keep saying they want to live with her. That I am wasting money on daycare, cleaning ladies, etc.
Ugh! Did not respond.
On another note, XW will not agree to let me take the boys to therapy. She continues to state that they keep saying they want to live with her. That I am wasting money on daycare, cleaning ladies, etc.
Ugh! Did not respond.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/20/16 03:25 PM
Do you know how she responds to them when they say they want to live with her? If so, what does she tell them? Do the boys ever tell YOU that they want to live with her?
Unfortunately for her, the courts ruled that the boys are better suited to live with you.
I still don't understand why you are moving to Toronto.
Unfortunately for her, the courts ruled that the boys are better suited to live with you.
I still don't understand why you are moving to Toronto.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/20/16 03:44 PM
Neither do I.
V
V
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/20/16 05:03 PM
Originally Posted By: JimKao
I gave him lots of hugs and said that we both love him and things will be ok and that if the anger comes back that he can come and talk to me and we will figure out how to get rid of the anger. I told him I will always be there for him.
Try not to speak for your ex-wife here. Her cheating and abandonment of these fairly recently adopted children is a pretty good indication that she doesn't really love them all that much. I'm not saying disparage her --- just don't speak for her when you say "we both love him". Instead it's just "I love you - I will always be honest with you and I will always be there for him".
I know sometimes you think giving in and "being the bigger person" might be helpful but consider the fact that your ex-wife cheated and abandoned you AND those children as a pretty good indication also that you truly are the only parent (and person in the world) your children are ever going to experience as "always there for them".
Remember what I said earlier on this thread. Toronto is just a couple years temporary assignment and then you are going back to michigan. Never indicate that you might have the option to stay or extend it. Never say "we'll see how it goes" like this is a trial for a possibly permanent thing. Sure, you may be able to quit your job (and give up benefits and all that which would be silly to do with all those children) or you might be able to make the stay longer through your company --- but that is a decision to weigh all by yourself several years down the road. I've seen way too many of these situations where the wayward divorcing spouse never becomes a healthy normal respective parent or co-parent and I believe consistent exposure to such unhealthy parent (as opposed to almost vacation type exposure to them over summer and holiday breaks) is much more damaging to children.
For example, after visitation, your kids come back tired, angry and unruly. Their whole ritual has been interrupted and mom has pumped them full of insidious lies and mental poison. It's very difficult for you to handle things for several days or even a week after but soon the ritual returns and the consistent loving environment brings about a normalcy.
I think you'll find being in Toronto will bring about a never ending stream of unsettledness and psychological stress upon your children AND YOU as you exchange custody of the children several days a week and try to coparent with a terrorist.
Maybe things will get better later - much later and that would be more likely to occur if and when she ends her adulterous affair; but, until then she'll remain a monster that will never appreciate or give you an ounce of credit that you moved to her country so "her" kids could be with their "mother". I can't already hear her telling people you did it because once you found out you couldn't control her by taking custody of the kids, you couldn't handle custody alone and didn't really care all that much about the kids anyway so you moved there get her help (and grandma's help). She also thinks you are doing it because Princess Narcissist thinks she's God's gift to the world and that you are chasing her.
Again - you are the only "PARENT" those boys have. One parent is better than a crazy mom and a dad half in the bag trying to cope with crazy mom TOO (they are gong to have to put up with her emotional abuse a lot longer than you).
Listen to others - parallel parenting. Online calendar. No more debating during emails. The kids shouldn't live with her because that's not a nice thing to do to those children. Do not waiver.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/20/16 07:48 PM
Do you need her agreement?
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/21/16 01:46 PM
Dream
Do you know how she responds to them when they say they want to live with her? Unfortunately no I do not know how she responds to them. If so, what does she tell them? Do the boys ever tell YOU that they want to live with her? The boys do not mention who they want to live with anymore, other than S6 saying that he wants us back together, there is very little conversation about who to live with.
Unfortunately for her, the courts ruled that the boys are better suited to live with you.
The courts did not rule anything. This is what she and I agreed upon and the courts are signing off on.
I still don't understand why you are moving to Toronto.
It works for me financially and the boys get to see their mom every other weekend.
GB,
I am sticking to the plan you posted earlier.
I will also not speak for her to the boys as you said.
We will see how things go the next couple of days as we clean things up with the D.
I also have the same concerns that she will make excuses and that I need her and grandma to help. As you said before, it is her issue on how she builds her relationship with the boys.
Painter,
Yes, I do need her agreement, we have joint legal/physical custody. Today my L called the psychologist who did the family eval and the psychologist suggested we file a motion.
XW and I have scheduled a phone call at 9 am tomorrow to discuss S6's behavior. I need to prep for this talk and jot down some notes. We will have to see where things go from there.
Do you know how she responds to them when they say they want to live with her? Unfortunately no I do not know how she responds to them. If so, what does she tell them? Do the boys ever tell YOU that they want to live with her? The boys do not mention who they want to live with anymore, other than S6 saying that he wants us back together, there is very little conversation about who to live with.
Unfortunately for her, the courts ruled that the boys are better suited to live with you.
The courts did not rule anything. This is what she and I agreed upon and the courts are signing off on.
I still don't understand why you are moving to Toronto.
It works for me financially and the boys get to see their mom every other weekend.
GB,
I am sticking to the plan you posted earlier.
I will also not speak for her to the boys as you said.
We will see how things go the next couple of days as we clean things up with the D.
I also have the same concerns that she will make excuses and that I need her and grandma to help. As you said before, it is her issue on how she builds her relationship with the boys.
Painter,
Yes, I do need her agreement, we have joint legal/physical custody. Today my L called the psychologist who did the family eval and the psychologist suggested we file a motion.
XW and I have scheduled a phone call at 9 am tomorrow to discuss S6's behavior. I need to prep for this talk and jot down some notes. We will have to see where things go from there.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/21/16 02:21 PM
Why do you have to talk with her over the phone about S6, when you have already told her? If it's for legal reasons of some sort, you may want to consider recording the conversation. You know she's going to claim he should be with her and then he wouldn't act out in school.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/25/16 06:41 AM
Well the conversation at 9 am was short. She clearly stated she would not authorize any therapy for the boys.
Later that evening she wanted to talk again. I will spare the details as it was a constant swirl. I explained to XW that we were moving and she said she would not authorize the move.
I called my L the next day and my L was shocked that XW would not allow the boys to move. XW asked if I would pay her for watching S3 during the day while I was at work! I was appalled.
My L said we will be filing a motion to get the boys into therapy and for the move. L says no judge would deny a move so the boys could be closer to their mother.
I did also ask my L if I am allowed to record phone conversations and L said she will find out and let me know.
XW asked if I am still going to therapy, I said yes, then she tried to find out which therapist, I said it was none of her concern, so she mentioned the psychologist who did the family psych eval, thinking I am seeing her and XW actually told me that she thought this woman was a moron and did not agree with the psych eval at all. I could not believe what I heard.
Unless the princess gets her way she is going to fight me on everything. Yesterday she sends a text wishing all of us a Happy Thanksgiving and asked to speak with the boys. I thanked her and said I would have the boys call if we were back from my family's house otherwise it will be the next day.
On a more positive note, we went to my brother's house for Thanksgiving, 10 cousins were playing and having a blast, the boys were coming up and giving me hugs at various times throughout the day. It felt very nice. They were well behaved for the most part. I really enjoyed myself and felt happy and content.
Oh and if I have not officially stated, I am now D'd as of a week ago. I still do not feel like it though. It feels like XW and I are on a long vacation apart from each other.
She did state at one time during our conversation that we are still tied to each other because of the boys. Which is why I am still fighting for my M even though I am D'd.
Later that evening she wanted to talk again. I will spare the details as it was a constant swirl. I explained to XW that we were moving and she said she would not authorize the move.
I called my L the next day and my L was shocked that XW would not allow the boys to move. XW asked if I would pay her for watching S3 during the day while I was at work! I was appalled.
My L said we will be filing a motion to get the boys into therapy and for the move. L says no judge would deny a move so the boys could be closer to their mother.
I did also ask my L if I am allowed to record phone conversations and L said she will find out and let me know.
XW asked if I am still going to therapy, I said yes, then she tried to find out which therapist, I said it was none of her concern, so she mentioned the psychologist who did the family psych eval, thinking I am seeing her and XW actually told me that she thought this woman was a moron and did not agree with the psych eval at all. I could not believe what I heard.
Unless the princess gets her way she is going to fight me on everything. Yesterday she sends a text wishing all of us a Happy Thanksgiving and asked to speak with the boys. I thanked her and said I would have the boys call if we were back from my family's house otherwise it will be the next day.
On a more positive note, we went to my brother's house for Thanksgiving, 10 cousins were playing and having a blast, the boys were coming up and giving me hugs at various times throughout the day. It felt very nice. They were well behaved for the most part. I really enjoyed myself and felt happy and content.
Oh and if I have not officially stated, I am now D'd as of a week ago. I still do not feel like it though. It feels like XW and I are on a long vacation apart from each other.
She did state at one time during our conversation that we are still tied to each other because of the boys. Which is why I am still fighting for my M even though I am D'd.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/25/16 08:41 AM
Originally Posted By: JK
Unless the princess gets her way...
Is that what you really feel about her?
If so, then this comment makes very little sense...
Originally Posted By: JK
Which is why I am still fighting for my M even though I am D'd.
Quote:
She did state at one time during our conversation that we are still tied to each other because of the boys.Which is why I am still fighting for my M even though I am D'd.
More confusing thoughts that you share...
She is correct...it is a fact that you are tied together because of your sons...but this fact does not have a hidden meaning...your statement indicates that you added meaning to it...
JK,
We are not our thoughts...but when one continues to voice the randomness of the thoughts and emotions that flow through, they begin to take actions...actions that are not necessarily in line with what is good and what is not...poor emotional health and behavior tends to stem from this pattern.
Ongoing statements of the random feelings and emotions one feels leads to random actions that can be called selfish...
Please read up on emotional maturity...
"Emotional maturity refers to your ability to understand, and manage, your emotions. Emotional maturity enables you to create the life you desire. A life filled with happiness and fulfilment. You define success in your own terms, not society's, and you strive to achieve it."
What you share with us demonstrates much emotional immaturity on your WW's part...
There is much demonstration for growth for our friend JK as well...
You and your family are in my prayers...
I will continue to nudge you to step back and look within for what it is that can make you happy, while treating those that you feel wronged by with love and respect...
“Any fool can criticize, complain, and condemn—and most fools do. But it takes character and self-control to be understanding and forgiving.” ~Dale Carnegie
“Show respect to people who don't even deserve it; not as a reflection of their character, but as a reflection of yours.” ~Dave Willis
"Have the courage to say no. Have the courage to face the truth. Do the right thing because it is right. These are the magic keys to living your life with integrity." ~W. Clement Stone
I still look to your journey to see a shift...a shift in you...when this happens much of the quality thoughts and advice from the good people here in our community will rise up and guide you out of the chaos that you continue to feel and potentially feed.
I challenge you to step back...be still...look inside and you will find answers...strength and divine guidance to do what is right...not what feels good...not what is logical as you put it on paper...not in an effort to have others validate you...but what is right for you...for your sons...for your WW...
Be well, be still, look towards the peace you can feel when you follow the path that you are meant to, today my friend.
Peace and love to you brother.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/25/16 04:01 PM
She's just....wow! Because I do not know her personally or can test her I can't say for certainty but she appears very narcissistic. The fact that she would try to block the children from moving close to her is absolutely stunning to me.
Like me, you haven't really detached. You are still mind reading her and inserting emotion into her comments and texts. She has proven with her actions to be very wayward and even toxic for those kids. Look at her actions and stop listening to her words. Would moving be beneficial to your boys? Would she be a stable, nurturing mother who puts their needs above her desires? I am worried that she would actually damage them. And the fact that she would try to blok necessary therapy is just...awful. It's like refusing medication when your kid is sick.
Like me, you haven't really detached. You are still mind reading her and inserting emotion into her comments and texts. She has proven with her actions to be very wayward and even toxic for those kids. Look at her actions and stop listening to her words. Would moving be beneficial to your boys? Would she be a stable, nurturing mother who puts their needs above her desires? I am worried that she would actually damage them. And the fact that she would try to blok necessary therapy is just...awful. It's like refusing medication when your kid is sick.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/26/16 09:02 AM
Sara,
I do have the same concerns. That is why when I move it will be because it is what I want for me and the boys. I will stick to the plan that Georgia Bulldogs suggested in order to protect the boys. If she exposes the boys to OM then that is her issue to deal with. We will have to take stock of her actions after the move.
SH,
I guess there is still anger and resentment still lingering inside me.
I am working on accepting that XW will contribute to the boys in her own way, whatever that may be and that I have no control over that. It frustrates me that she does not want to work and that she does not want to be M.
She stated she is in a place or R with new OM where she can continue to be a SAHM.
I still have a lot of work to do for me and the boys and will make the best of what I have day by day.
I do have the same concerns. That is why when I move it will be because it is what I want for me and the boys. I will stick to the plan that Georgia Bulldogs suggested in order to protect the boys. If she exposes the boys to OM then that is her issue to deal with. We will have to take stock of her actions after the move.
SH,
I guess there is still anger and resentment still lingering inside me.
I am working on accepting that XW will contribute to the boys in her own way, whatever that may be and that I have no control over that. It frustrates me that she does not want to work and that she does not want to be M.
She stated she is in a place or R with new OM where she can continue to be a SAHM.
I still have a lot of work to do for me and the boys and will make the best of what I have day by day.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/27/16 09:20 PM
It occurred to me that you may need to meet with a very good divorce/custody attorney in Toronto to make certain, before you go, that you can somehow get trapped in Canada with her making some allegations or whatever and trying to claim "the best interests of the children" stuff once "residency" is accomplished or maintained. She should have to sign off of this NOT being a change of jurisdiction and acknowledge it's just a temporary thing; but, even that might not be enough. An experienced attorney will know the traps and pitfalls you'll need to be careful of.
For example, the Michigan custody divorce and custody might be settled but if she were to make a claim of abuse after son #3 breaks his arm under somewhat mysterious ("mysterious" only to her since she's the one looking to nail you) though completely legitimate circumstances. If the supposed alleged "abuse" occurred in Ontario, the Ontario courts would have jurisdiction and could "place" the child/children with the mother pending an investigation or resolution for their safety. I know she doesn't have much money but princess could be enabled (and financed) by her parents, family, OM and friends to bring in "hired gun" pyschologists as "expert witnesses" that will basically testify to anything and thereby help her "steal" your custody regardless of your Michigan claims to the children.
My point is, you need to be really careful and diligent about protecting your rights and those boys from your entitled wayward ex-wife. Keep a voice recording app ready to go on your phone should you ever find yourself in a face to face encounter or phone call discussion with her making threats and trying to antagonize you into doing something to her so she can get you arrested. If a child gets hurt, take him to the doctor yourself immediately and don't ask her to do it or she'll lead the doctor to conclude that you might be hurting your children and she'll try to get the doctor on board with making a accusations or reports on you. Be sure to always behave and presume to be their primary parent and rely on her during your custody time for really nothing. Even while living there, stick to the custody arrangement already set forth or she just might be able to come back to Michigan and petition for a modification herself based upon maintaining consistency.
For example, the Michigan custody divorce and custody might be settled but if she were to make a claim of abuse after son #3 breaks his arm under somewhat mysterious ("mysterious" only to her since she's the one looking to nail you) though completely legitimate circumstances. If the supposed alleged "abuse" occurred in Ontario, the Ontario courts would have jurisdiction and could "place" the child/children with the mother pending an investigation or resolution for their safety. I know she doesn't have much money but princess could be enabled (and financed) by her parents, family, OM and friends to bring in "hired gun" pyschologists as "expert witnesses" that will basically testify to anything and thereby help her "steal" your custody regardless of your Michigan claims to the children.
My point is, you need to be really careful and diligent about protecting your rights and those boys from your entitled wayward ex-wife. Keep a voice recording app ready to go on your phone should you ever find yourself in a face to face encounter or phone call discussion with her making threats and trying to antagonize you into doing something to her so she can get you arrested. If a child gets hurt, take him to the doctor yourself immediately and don't ask her to do it or she'll lead the doctor to conclude that you might be hurting your children and she'll try to get the doctor on board with making a accusations or reports on you. Be sure to always behave and presume to be their primary parent and rely on her during your custody time for really nothing. Even while living there, stick to the custody arrangement already set forth or she just might be able to come back to Michigan and petition for a modification herself based upon maintaining consistency.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/28/16 09:45 AM
"The courts did not rule anything. This is what she and I agreed upon and the courts are signing off on. "
I thought all of the psych testing was to find out which parent is best suited to have primary physical custody. I must have missed something. What was the psych testing for?
If you are moving to Toronto so your kids will see their mom every other weekend, why is she against your move? Something isn't right here.
I thought all of the psych testing was to find out which parent is best suited to have primary physical custody. I must have missed something. What was the psych testing for?
If you are moving to Toronto so your kids will see their mom every other weekend, why is she against your move? Something isn't right here.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/28/16 10:35 AM
Originally Posted By: dream
"The courts did not rule anything. This is what she and I agreed upon and the courts are signing off on. "
I thought all of the psych testing was to find out which parent is best suited to have primary physical custody. I must have missed something. What was the psych testing for?
If you are moving to Toronto so your kids will see their mom every other weekend, why is she against your move? Something isn't right here.
I thought all of the psych testing was to find out which parent is best suited to have primary physical custody. I must have missed something. What was the psych testing for?
If you are moving to Toronto so your kids will see their mom every other weekend, why is she against your move? Something isn't right here.
I agree with you dream...much in JK's story indicate that there are many things amiss...many emotional decisions, sharing of information that does not add up...huge life changing decisions based on things that do not make sense...much seeking of validation for behavior that is not inline with DB principles, emotional maturity, wisdom...
Originally Posted By: JimKao
I do have the same concerns. That is why when I move it will be because it is what I want for me and the boys. I will stick to the plan that Georgia Bulldogs suggested in order to protect the boys. If she exposes the boys to OM then that is her issue to deal with. We will have to take stock of her actions after the move.
JK, you are concerned at how your XW behaves and her thoughts about your sons, so you will move closer, because you say it is financially better for you, follow Georgia Bulldogs advice to protect yourself (and it is decent advice) knowing that lawyer costs will continue to add up in order to protect yourself?
You say that XW will have to deal with the issues of exposing sons to OM, but that you will take stock of her actions?
There is so much discrepancy in what is share here...there is something not right.
JK, I continue to wish you the best...I continue to pray that you can hear what many are saying to you...but in the end you will make the decisions that you choose too...it seems such a waste though...so much unneeded drama that can be avoided if you would sit still for a spell...even walk away for a bit and do the work that is needed for clarity.
You do have more control than it seems...and it appears that you continue to choose to give it away...
Be well my friend...
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/28/16 02:27 PM
GB,
Again very good advice. I will consult with an L in Toronto also.
I would not put anything past XW.
Dream,
The psych eval was something we both agreed to have and the psychologist stated that we do an 8/6 split for overnights. The psychologist did this to entice XW to stay in Michigan, of course that never happened. The psychologist did say that the boys were happy with either one of us. Off the record the psychologist did say that if we lived int eh same city she would have recommended 50/50 custody.
Of course earlier last week XW called the psychologist a moron as we were talking on the phone.
SH,
I am just as perplexed as everyone that reads my thread. Whatever the outcome, in the long run I will do everything I can to protect them and fight for them. I do not want to be combative with XW any longer.
I am really a laid back easy going guy. I want my boys to be happy and smile as much as they can. If XW takes actions to take them away, I will do what I can to protect me and the boys, no matter what the cost. In the meantime we will live our lives day by day and enjoy our time together.
I did speak to my L today and we are filing a motion to get the boys therapy and approval to move. Should have a decision in a week and a half.
NC from XW for a week now. I am baffled at the detachment she has from her children. That is neither here nor there. My connection with my kids is what is important and we will live our lives to the fullest no matter where we live, with or without her.
Again very good advice. I will consult with an L in Toronto also.
I would not put anything past XW.
Dream,
The psych eval was something we both agreed to have and the psychologist stated that we do an 8/6 split for overnights. The psychologist did this to entice XW to stay in Michigan, of course that never happened. The psychologist did say that the boys were happy with either one of us. Off the record the psychologist did say that if we lived int eh same city she would have recommended 50/50 custody.
Of course earlier last week XW called the psychologist a moron as we were talking on the phone.
SH,
I am just as perplexed as everyone that reads my thread. Whatever the outcome, in the long run I will do everything I can to protect them and fight for them. I do not want to be combative with XW any longer.
I am really a laid back easy going guy. I want my boys to be happy and smile as much as they can. If XW takes actions to take them away, I will do what I can to protect me and the boys, no matter what the cost. In the meantime we will live our lives day by day and enjoy our time together.
I did speak to my L today and we are filing a motion to get the boys therapy and approval to move. Should have a decision in a week and a half.
NC from XW for a week now. I am baffled at the detachment she has from her children. That is neither here nor there. My connection with my kids is what is important and we will live our lives to the fullest no matter where we live, with or without her.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 11/28/16 04:26 PM
I really have to jump in here as this is making my head explode. I pay much more attention to what people do rather than what they say. Anyone can say they will do anything. It's their actions that really tell the story. You say "I will do everything I can to protect them and fight for them." That's what you say and for a while seems to be your actions. Unless I'm remembering incorrectly and have the wrong guy, you fought for them and got what you wanted and what was best and are now about to give that all up - or at least put it at great risk. You are walking into a lions den with those kids and could end up in a very bad situation. It's clear your ex does not have those kids best interest at heart. She clearly would be dangerous if given custody or even more time with them. The courts saw this and made sure to not allow that to happen. And in turn you are going to move them closer to her, allow her to harm them on a more routine basis and risk a new court changing what you were given. You fought hard for what you wanted and what was best and were given it and in return are giving parts of it back. It's almost like winning the game and then allowing the other team to score at the last minute due to a bad play. Tell me how this is "doing everything to protect them". If you truly were doing everything to protect them you would not be Moving them to ex wife so she can further damage them. Nearly everyone here says much the same, yet...
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/04/16 12:03 PM
Helo all!
I have been very busy with work, the boys, and the move and cleaning up the final remnants of the D.
Here is the short version.
Boys behavior has gone downhill! The 3 in school are not completing work, bothering others, and acting out.
Tried to discuss with XW and tentatively scheduled an appointment with a child psychologist. XW denied the appointment and argued I did not consult with her. She kept saying give them to me for 6 months and the boys will be fine.
So after multiple conversations with XW and L, our Ls had a conference call with friend of the court. FOC said boys absolutely need therapy and it was not the parent's decision if the boys need to be on medication. XW was stating she does not want the boys on meds, they need to be with her.
FOC asked why we are having a hard time working together, my L stated that XW said to me that she was waiting for the boys behavior and academics to degrade and that would be enough proof for her to obtain custody of the boys. FOC person was livid when she heard that. FOC stated that we as parents should put our needs last and the boys needs first. I fully support that but XW seems to have a different perspective.
XW will still not budge on how she feels. I offered 50/50 custody with the move, she kept spinning things and held firm on her keeping the boys 2/3rds of the time. So we are at a stand still on the move again. She thinks I am doing it to get her back. I am sparing everyone the drama and push pull that XW and I talk about. My L still thinks that there is risk in moving. I stated that my offer of 50/50 would only stand if we filed the custody agreement in Ontario also. Other than XW and my verbal conversation, we have not moved forward at all on this issue.
On a brighter note, I did find a live in nanny if I stay in Michigan. I am dual pathing, looked at rentals in TO and Michigan.
It has been a nice break this weekend, I drove the boys up to have their visit with XW. They are staying in a hotel again. She says FIL is not well. I think FIL does not want the boys in his house anymore.
Went out with friends last night. It was very refreshing. Forgot how it was to have some adult time in a vibrant setting.
I realized there are lots of fish in the sea and that I will be OK and can enjoy life without XW although my heart feels different. Still lots to do from a healing standpoint. I am GALing and I get these waves of feelings and emotions that come over me and wish things could be different. A few weeks ago I would tear up and cry when this would happen, now it is impacting me far less and I do realize that over time (a long time) I will be OK.
I have been very busy with work, the boys, and the move and cleaning up the final remnants of the D.
Here is the short version.
Boys behavior has gone downhill! The 3 in school are not completing work, bothering others, and acting out.
Tried to discuss with XW and tentatively scheduled an appointment with a child psychologist. XW denied the appointment and argued I did not consult with her. She kept saying give them to me for 6 months and the boys will be fine.
So after multiple conversations with XW and L, our Ls had a conference call with friend of the court. FOC said boys absolutely need therapy and it was not the parent's decision if the boys need to be on medication. XW was stating she does not want the boys on meds, they need to be with her.
FOC asked why we are having a hard time working together, my L stated that XW said to me that she was waiting for the boys behavior and academics to degrade and that would be enough proof for her to obtain custody of the boys. FOC person was livid when she heard that. FOC stated that we as parents should put our needs last and the boys needs first. I fully support that but XW seems to have a different perspective.
XW will still not budge on how she feels. I offered 50/50 custody with the move, she kept spinning things and held firm on her keeping the boys 2/3rds of the time. So we are at a stand still on the move again. She thinks I am doing it to get her back. I am sparing everyone the drama and push pull that XW and I talk about. My L still thinks that there is risk in moving. I stated that my offer of 50/50 would only stand if we filed the custody agreement in Ontario also. Other than XW and my verbal conversation, we have not moved forward at all on this issue.
On a brighter note, I did find a live in nanny if I stay in Michigan. I am dual pathing, looked at rentals in TO and Michigan.
It has been a nice break this weekend, I drove the boys up to have their visit with XW. They are staying in a hotel again. She says FIL is not well. I think FIL does not want the boys in his house anymore.
Went out with friends last night. It was very refreshing. Forgot how it was to have some adult time in a vibrant setting.
I realized there are lots of fish in the sea and that I will be OK and can enjoy life without XW although my heart feels different. Still lots to do from a healing standpoint. I am GALing and I get these waves of feelings and emotions that come over me and wish things could be different. A few weeks ago I would tear up and cry when this would happen, now it is impacting me far less and I do realize that over time (a long time) I will be OK.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/04/16 10:37 PM
jIM,
Do you think your kids need to medicated? They are having some major events happen in their lives which I am sure is affecting their performance and behavior in school. I don't think medication will make that any better. Consistency and stability might do the trick.
Have you open-endly asked the boys what's going on? How they are feeling? If there is anything that upsets them or makes them happy? Maybe just talking to their dad would be helpful. Maybe you and the boys can come up together with an action plan for their school work?
Hopefully once there is a consistent homebase and a consisten schedule, things will start to fall backtogether for everyone.
Do you think your kids need to medicated? They are having some major events happen in their lives which I am sure is affecting their performance and behavior in school. I don't think medication will make that any better. Consistency and stability might do the trick.
Have you open-endly asked the boys what's going on? How they are feeling? If there is anything that upsets them or makes them happy? Maybe just talking to their dad would be helpful. Maybe you and the boys can come up together with an action plan for their school work?
Hopefully once there is a consistent homebase and a consisten schedule, things will start to fall backtogether for everyone.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/05/16 05:06 PM
Hello Ginger,
No I do not think the boys need to be medicated. As the FOC person said, it is not my or XW's decision. That is up to the psychologist that sees the boys.
We go through our routing daily and the boys seem to be fine. I do ask them if they want to talk every few days and they typically say nothing is bothering them. I ask them if they want to express their feelings and they say no. I do get lots of hugs from them, they tend to be longer as time goes by.
Today S8 said he cried at school because a boy was teasing him and for some reason he thought of mom and missed her and started crying. I told him that was normal since he just saw her this past weekend and that things will be ok.
We are all going a bit stir crazy is this little apartment but we are managing somehow.
I worked from home today because of S6's suspension from school and will have to tomorrow and Wednesday also. And of course wouldn't you know it, S7 threatened to hurt another classmate today and now he has detention this Friday!
It never ends.
I have a consultation with a Canadian attorney tomorrow to know my rights if I continue this move.
I just want to thank everyone for the continued support and will probably move from newcomers to surviving the D once I hit 100 posts on this thread.
No I do not think the boys need to be medicated. As the FOC person said, it is not my or XW's decision. That is up to the psychologist that sees the boys.
We go through our routing daily and the boys seem to be fine. I do ask them if they want to talk every few days and they typically say nothing is bothering them. I ask them if they want to express their feelings and they say no. I do get lots of hugs from them, they tend to be longer as time goes by.
Today S8 said he cried at school because a boy was teasing him and for some reason he thought of mom and missed her and started crying. I told him that was normal since he just saw her this past weekend and that things will be ok.
We are all going a bit stir crazy is this little apartment but we are managing somehow.
I worked from home today because of S6's suspension from school and will have to tomorrow and Wednesday also. And of course wouldn't you know it, S7 threatened to hurt another classmate today and now he has detention this Friday!
It never ends.
I have a consultation with a Canadian attorney tomorrow to know my rights if I continue this move.
I just want to thank everyone for the continued support and will probably move from newcomers to surviving the D once I hit 100 posts on this thread.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/05/16 05:28 PM
"No I do not think the boys need to be medicated. As the FOC person said, it is not my or XW's decision. That is up to the psychologist that sees the boys"
I just cannot let this go without putting in another view. Coming from yet another government hack, I have no doubt this is what she believes. It's what all the blasted nanny state government types believe! They think that we are all too stupid to manage our own lives. And we somehow need government to make all of our decisions because we just could never run our own lives, make our own choices, etc, we need government to ban large quantity soft drinks, force us to recycle, keep us safe with helmets and a round about where intercections used to be.
The real truth is, the doctor should evaluate the boys and then make his or her recommendation. It is then the parents job to decide what they feel is best for THEIR KIDS. By all means the doctors suggestion should be highly considered but some docs think all kids need to be on meds. How did you and I ever grow up without bike helmets, safe playgrounds and medications?
Sorry, I just had to put this back into perspective. Don't let some doctor or government hack parent your kids. It's your desicion and not theirs!
I just cannot let this go without putting in another view. Coming from yet another government hack, I have no doubt this is what she believes. It's what all the blasted nanny state government types believe! They think that we are all too stupid to manage our own lives. And we somehow need government to make all of our decisions because we just could never run our own lives, make our own choices, etc, we need government to ban large quantity soft drinks, force us to recycle, keep us safe with helmets and a round about where intercections used to be.
The real truth is, the doctor should evaluate the boys and then make his or her recommendation. It is then the parents job to decide what they feel is best for THEIR KIDS. By all means the doctors suggestion should be highly considered but some docs think all kids need to be on meds. How did you and I ever grow up without bike helmets, safe playgrounds and medications?
Sorry, I just had to put this back into perspective. Don't let some doctor or government hack parent your kids. It's your desicion and not theirs!
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/05/16 07:50 PM
I completely agree with Don. Regardless of the motivation for saying it, the FOC person is wrong. As long as you (the parents) have custody of the children, it's up to you to decide on any medication.
Medicating children is a HUGE decision. It impacts them tremendously and can have consequences for their growth and future. Medical care in the US is a for-profit venture that rewards health care providers for treating patients with medications or tests or procedures.
The children very likely needs some form of support - a group for children of divorce, individual counseling, and ExW needs a parenting class (which both of you should take).
Medicating children is a HUGE decision. It impacts them tremendously and can have consequences for their growth and future. Medical care in the US is a for-profit venture that rewards health care providers for treating patients with medications or tests or procedures.
The children very likely needs some form of support - a group for children of divorce, individual counseling, and ExW needs a parenting class (which both of you should take).
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/05/16 09:06 PM
Hi JK,
Just dropping in to say hi after a long while.
Looks like your W is very unreasonable and is not putting the children's needs first. Why on earth would she object to them seeing a psychologist? Hypothetically, what would have happened if you unilaterally took them to a psychologist without her input? Don't be tentative. You know what is right.
Are you still talking to your W directly? I think she is very manipulative and you should let the Ls do the negotiating.
Most importantly, decide - as best as you can - what is best for kids, and do it. They are the victims here. No one will persecute you for doing the right thing. " Do the right thing" should be your mantra.
RAI
Just dropping in to say hi after a long while.
Looks like your W is very unreasonable and is not putting the children's needs first. Why on earth would she object to them seeing a psychologist? Hypothetically, what would have happened if you unilaterally took them to a psychologist without her input? Don't be tentative. You know what is right.
Are you still talking to your W directly? I think she is very manipulative and you should let the Ls do the negotiating.
Most importantly, decide - as best as you can - what is best for kids, and do it. They are the victims here. No one will persecute you for doing the right thing. " Do the right thing" should be your mantra.
RAI
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/06/16 09:47 AM
Thank all for the input. I truly do not want my boys on any meds if XW and I can help it. I do not think that is the answer. A good balance, access to her and friendship with XW are the answer. I cannot change the past, but I can make things better for the boys, regardless of her actions.
I consulted with an L in Ontario and received some very good info. The laws in Michigan are reciprocal with the laws in Ontario. Canadian L could not believe XW left for the past year and has not found a job yet. Canadian L also said there is no such thing as SAHM any longer and that income would be imputed to XW in Ontario courts also. She also stated that if XW would try and gain more than 50% custody she is fairly confident that the courts would not allow that based on my actions of moving the boys closer to build a better relationship with their mom which gives XW access to every other weekend. She thought that my moving is in the best interest of the boys.
I may have to pay some child support to her, but I am willing to do that if it goes to that extreme. It will not be enough for her to maintain the lifestyle she wants and it gives me the flexibility to work some OT when I can so I can financially provide as good or better lifestyle than we had for the boys.
I spoke to my L in Michigan and asked her to move forward with the motion. Hope I can get it submitted in time prior to the courts closing for the holidays.
After speaking with the Canadian L, I am confident I can stand my ground as the 50% parent Toronto and have good representation if required.
I consulted with an L in Ontario and received some very good info. The laws in Michigan are reciprocal with the laws in Ontario. Canadian L could not believe XW left for the past year and has not found a job yet. Canadian L also said there is no such thing as SAHM any longer and that income would be imputed to XW in Ontario courts also. She also stated that if XW would try and gain more than 50% custody she is fairly confident that the courts would not allow that based on my actions of moving the boys closer to build a better relationship with their mom which gives XW access to every other weekend. She thought that my moving is in the best interest of the boys.
I may have to pay some child support to her, but I am willing to do that if it goes to that extreme. It will not be enough for her to maintain the lifestyle she wants and it gives me the flexibility to work some OT when I can so I can financially provide as good or better lifestyle than we had for the boys.
I spoke to my L in Michigan and asked her to move forward with the motion. Hope I can get it submitted in time prior to the courts closing for the holidays.
After speaking with the Canadian L, I am confident I can stand my ground as the 50% parent Toronto and have good representation if required.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/06/16 10:11 AM
Dear Jim,
Youa re so set on having a friendship with someone who doesn't want to have a friendship with you. Her definition of "friendship" is getting you to do what she wants. Otherwise she has no interest.
A friendship sure, would be ideal, if that was in the cards right now and she was in a healthy place to do that, but it is more detrimental to the situation. You trying to form this "friendship" is no different than trying to reconcile with her now.
Throw the friendship out for now. Keep contact to the minimum, do the right thing for your boys that is within you reach.
Youa re so set on having a friendship with someone who doesn't want to have a friendship with you. Her definition of "friendship" is getting you to do what she wants. Otherwise she has no interest.
A friendship sure, would be ideal, if that was in the cards right now and she was in a healthy place to do that, but it is more detrimental to the situation. You trying to form this "friendship" is no different than trying to reconcile with her now.
Throw the friendship out for now. Keep contact to the minimum, do the right thing for your boys that is within you reach.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/06/16 11:31 AM
Jim,
You preserver in the face a huge obstacles. Your ExW is definitely doing herself no favors by being obstinate and selfish. I simply can't get over her immaturity and extreme egotistic nature, the fact that she would let her sons health diminish so she could "prove" they would be better with her is like...whoa! Meanwhile she refuses them access to therapists and doctors so they can be evaluated. This woman is toxic and I am not sure if it's possible to be a friend with someone who would throw your sons under the bus for her own personal gain.
You preserver in the face a huge obstacles. Your ExW is definitely doing herself no favors by being obstinate and selfish. I simply can't get over her immaturity and extreme egotistic nature, the fact that she would let her sons health diminish so she could "prove" they would be better with her is like...whoa! Meanwhile she refuses them access to therapists and doctors so they can be evaluated. This woman is toxic and I am not sure if it's possible to be a friend with someone who would throw your sons under the bus for her own personal gain.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/06/16 03:23 PM
Ginger,
I agree with you. Friendship is out the window at this time. I meant that portion to come across as friendship down the road on my terms.
If that is ever possible, if she will ever truly respect me as the boys father and a 50% parent, if she can ever put her ego to the side, and if she can stop holding a grudge about me filing first and let go of the past.
I get she no longer sees me as an equal and a partner since she is not getting her way. I will not be in the type of R we had in the past with her or anyone else again. Lesson learned the hard way.
I did get rejuvenated this past weekend though and found a bit of myself again. I had energy and laughed and had fun. I am gaining that back and trying to balance that with the responsibility of 5 boys. One day at a time is all I can do.
Sara,
I whole-heartedly agree with your statements. She is toxic to me and potentially to the boys. I do not want to judge her R with the boys, no longer my place unless it is harmful to them. Whatever actions she chooses with the boys will affect her R with them.
It is probably good that the boys do not know the details of what XW and I have been going through to get them help. They will know that dad did take them to therapy and that dad is doing all he can to make them comfortable.
All I know is I gained some very valuable information that has breathed new life in me again. I can be fun dad and responsible dad at the same time. I just pray I can get things organized quickly to finally settle into a home somewhere and start my vibrant life with my boys!
I agree with you. Friendship is out the window at this time. I meant that portion to come across as friendship down the road on my terms.
If that is ever possible, if she will ever truly respect me as the boys father and a 50% parent, if she can ever put her ego to the side, and if she can stop holding a grudge about me filing first and let go of the past.
I get she no longer sees me as an equal and a partner since she is not getting her way. I will not be in the type of R we had in the past with her or anyone else again. Lesson learned the hard way.
I did get rejuvenated this past weekend though and found a bit of myself again. I had energy and laughed and had fun. I am gaining that back and trying to balance that with the responsibility of 5 boys. One day at a time is all I can do.
Sara,
I whole-heartedly agree with your statements. She is toxic to me and potentially to the boys. I do not want to judge her R with the boys, no longer my place unless it is harmful to them. Whatever actions she chooses with the boys will affect her R with them.
It is probably good that the boys do not know the details of what XW and I have been going through to get them help. They will know that dad did take them to therapy and that dad is doing all he can to make them comfortable.
All I know is I gained some very valuable information that has breathed new life in me again. I can be fun dad and responsible dad at the same time. I just pray I can get things organized quickly to finally settle into a home somewhere and start my vibrant life with my boys!
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/06/16 06:08 PM
I know I've brought things like this up in the past and so have many others but I just really don't get it and wonder if you even realize the contradictions in your thinking. You just wrote, "She is toxic to me and potentially to the boys. I do not want to judge her R with the boys, no longer my place unless it is harmful to them." So you believe she is harmful and toxic to the boys with the 20% or so of the time she sees them - which by the way I'm betting most here agree with you in that - so you want to move them closer to her where she might be harmful and toxic to them 50% of the time? What possible sense does this make? Honestly, help me to understand this. Then you say it's only your place to get involved if she is harmful to them. Again, I'm betting most here agree, but also once again, why would you not only do what you can to protect them but most certainly not facilitate and make it easier for her to abuse them that much more? It's almost like delivering them to the abuse.
Again it just makes no sense so perhaps you can help me and others understand.
Again it just makes no sense so perhaps you can help me and others understand.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/09/16 10:19 AM
DonH,
That did not come out correctly. My R with her is toxic. I cannot say whether she is toxic to the boys.
That did not come out correctly. My R with her is toxic. I cannot say whether she is toxic to the boys.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/09/16 12:35 PM
Originally Posted By: JimKoa
Today S8 said he cried at school because a boy was teasing him and for some reason he thought of mom and missed her and started crying. I told him that was normal since he just saw her this past weekend and that things will be ok.
This is what I mean about how you MIGHT be better off living far away from her in the long run. She may have been a really great mom when she and you adopted these children; but, that woman does not exist anymore (until and unless she ceases and repents of her sins). Every time your boys spend time with her and then come back to your relative stability --- they act out. As it stands now, that's only happening now and then when she and you can manage it. But when you move there ~~ her toxicity, selfishness and entitlement will plague them (actually --mostly you) several times every week.
As far as meds and the FOC stating the doctor will decide, that's really code for you ALONE (as truly their only remaining responsible parent) getting to decide whether to medicate them or not, based upon YOUR consultation with the doctors and having such decision be controlling no matter what objections your ex-wife tries to make. The FOC person has given you it's blessing to take your kids to the doctor and do whatever you feel is best - without having to consider your wife's feelings, objections, involvement or try to get her permission or consent. I don't think the FOC person was really saying you had to do whatever the doctor said, but rather, telling you - YOU can choose to do whatever the doctor says and don't have to get your uncaring and non-cooperative ex-wifes' permission.
Still think you should delay the move awhile. Develop a new normal of being a single dad that has primary care and custody of the boys for awhile and have everyone adjust to that BEFORE bringing toxic abandoning mom back into the picture 50/50, only to figure out it's not that great and you need to move back "home" to Michigan 2 years from now.
What if what's best for the boys is having mom far away?
What about the rest of your life?? You matter also and is your life (absent ex-wife) likely to include dating and moving on in Toronto?? What about your extended family? You, as the sole remaining healthy parent, need to be happy and healthy too. I know it seems almost impossible to accomplish that in Michigan and, maybe, having your every other weekends free consistently in Toronto might help but what woman is going to date a man with 5 boys, a crazy local ex-wife, and who might be moving back to Michigan in 2 years (not that I think dating is a great thing to be doing for a couple of years -- just trying to talk out YOUR health and happiness).
Final thought - despite what your lawyer said about moving to Toronto, be very careful. Don't give up overnights and lean too heavily on your ex-wife and her family for help. They will (or should be) documenting everything you do relative to those boys in order to use it against you someday in court. The plan going in that it's a temporary move (which is smart, I believe, to give YOU the primary parent the option to get back "home" to Michigan), may very well also motivate them to consult with an attorney or two themselves to see if they can somehow "steal" back custody from you should you try to leave. That's the question you need to ask the Canadian attorney. How, should your ex-wife want to challenge custody in Canada before you move back, could she go about accomplishing that? What arguments, facts and/or lies could she attempt to present to establish a viable case? Your ex-wife may not do that at all. Documenting a custody case is hard work and entitled way wards don't often have the ability to pursue claims that take lots of evidence so it's just easier to demand it and make things up. What you most likely need to do is document the crap out of your defense to her potential bogus claims up front and stick to the custody order you currently are working with to the letter (and document that to). Keep an online or handwritten calendar journal of all visitation and overnight. Money spent should ALL be documented - never hand her cash or she'll deny it. Take pictures and update your face book with happy life experiences with you and the boys all the time (Facebook is great proof of well adjusted happy family). I'd even recommend having hidden camera's in public areas of your home such that any real accidents that are bound to happen with 5 boys doesn't get blown up into investigations of abuse or neglect. Camera's and internet backup recordings are so cheap now and as a single parent, sometimes you need an extra set of eyes on your children as they become teenagers. They might not document or catch everything but they might certainly provide you with another defense tool should things ever blow up. Even just a motion camera at your front door keeping track of and recording everyone coming and going might help.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/10/16 05:58 AM
The second half of the week has been a rollercoaster, now I think I am the one creating it.
US L and Ontario L and I had a conference call this past Wednesday. The two Ls spoke Tuesday afternoon. Ontario L said that their is risk even if XW signs off on the move that XW could file a motion in Ontario since she is not working yet and we could possibly continue the custody battle in Ontario and put the boys through more turmoil. This could happen the first day I move there.
Ontario L said the longer I stay in Michigan the less chance that XW could take more than 50% based on her behavior over the past year.
I am glad I did my due diligence. Based off of this I cannot risk moving. Although there is a twist to this after the boys go see the child psychologist.
I send XW an email after the conversation stating that I set up therapy for S6 Thursday and S7 Friday.
Her response back was "thank you and you could have given me more notice so I can speak with the therapist before the boys go". I did not respond.
Thursday S4 turned 5. We had pizza and cake. XW and I set a time of 6:30pm for a call with the boys. When boys were done eating it was 6:12. I text XW asking if she wanted to video chat and sing happy birthday with us as we were getting ready to blow out the candles and sing happy birthday. She responds back with "can't talk right now". I did not mention any of this to the boys. We sing happy birthday and I serve some cake and ice cream to the boys. 6:25 she texts back she is free and so I call her and she talks to the boys for a few minutes starting with S5.
I sent XW a picture of the cake as the boys were eating pizza and she send a response back saying the cake was cute. Then she send another text saying looks big. I sent a response of it was the smallest I could find with S5's favorite colors. I left it at that.
If it were me on the other end I would have wanted to video chat and see the smile on my S5's face as he blew out the candles. That is me though.
The sessions for the boys went well. Psychologist stated the S6 and S7 are sweet and articulate. Psychologist was very happy with how the first sessions went.
Friday afternoon XW, psychologist and I had a conference call, I had to go back to the psychologist for the second time that day. We received some feedback about the boys. We gave the psychologist background of the boys history.
At the beginning of our session with the psychologist, she asked one questions that we agreed we would answer last. Psychologist asked if there is any way we could co-parent in the same city. At the end of the session I started and stated yes, and that I offered 50/50 custody to XW and that I had a transfer in place that I have not cancelled but XW will not agree. Psychologist was glad to hear that. She then asked XW if there was any way that she could move back to Michigan and XW brought up the excuse of no support, family is in Toronto.
XW then started to get on her soapbox and went back to her position of the boys are young and need to be with their mom and 50/50 would not work because there is traffic and there is no good way to schedule co-parenting in the same city...blah blah blah.
I get on my soapbox about the D and that best interest of the boys is to have two parents under the same roof.
The poor psychologist is trying to mediate all this so it does not escalate into pure chaos. She stated this is typical and understands that XW and I are both angry and mad. Psychologist is trying to look out for the best interest of the boys and says the boys would thrive more if we lived in the same city.
XW states 50/50 will not work, custody either needs to stay the same or get flipped so she has them most of the time.
The custody conversation goes 30 minutes over the session time and we end the call with XW.
I offer up a conference call to the psychologist with both my Ls so she can understand the risk. We will discuss on Monday.
I could see the facial expressions of the psychologist as XW was explaining her position as a SAHM and XW's reaction to not accepting 50/50. Psychologist seemed very surprised.
XW calls me later in the evening and states that custody needs to be 2/3rds 1/3rd either way and 50/50 will not work (because this will put a lot more financial burden on XW). I said I understand but I do not trust that if we kept custody the same that it would not change once I moved up there. XW starts to spew the same about the boys behavior degrading and lack of performance in school. Then she starts to berate me again and I start to push back. I could not talk to her anymore and just hung up.
It may be perceived that I am being stubborn about the move and trying to force it, I am glad I am doing my due diligence. I need to finalize my choice early next week so I can get some normal back in the boys lives.
Georgia Bulldogs, I appreciate the feedback again. I will respond later. I have posted enough for one morning. Time to make breakfast for the boys! Hope everyone has a great Saturday.
US L and Ontario L and I had a conference call this past Wednesday. The two Ls spoke Tuesday afternoon. Ontario L said that their is risk even if XW signs off on the move that XW could file a motion in Ontario since she is not working yet and we could possibly continue the custody battle in Ontario and put the boys through more turmoil. This could happen the first day I move there.
Ontario L said the longer I stay in Michigan the less chance that XW could take more than 50% based on her behavior over the past year.
I am glad I did my due diligence. Based off of this I cannot risk moving. Although there is a twist to this after the boys go see the child psychologist.
I send XW an email after the conversation stating that I set up therapy for S6 Thursday and S7 Friday.
Her response back was "thank you and you could have given me more notice so I can speak with the therapist before the boys go". I did not respond.
Thursday S4 turned 5. We had pizza and cake. XW and I set a time of 6:30pm for a call with the boys. When boys were done eating it was 6:12. I text XW asking if she wanted to video chat and sing happy birthday with us as we were getting ready to blow out the candles and sing happy birthday. She responds back with "can't talk right now". I did not mention any of this to the boys. We sing happy birthday and I serve some cake and ice cream to the boys. 6:25 she texts back she is free and so I call her and she talks to the boys for a few minutes starting with S5.
I sent XW a picture of the cake as the boys were eating pizza and she send a response back saying the cake was cute. Then she send another text saying looks big. I sent a response of it was the smallest I could find with S5's favorite colors. I left it at that.
If it were me on the other end I would have wanted to video chat and see the smile on my S5's face as he blew out the candles. That is me though.
The sessions for the boys went well. Psychologist stated the S6 and S7 are sweet and articulate. Psychologist was very happy with how the first sessions went.
Friday afternoon XW, psychologist and I had a conference call, I had to go back to the psychologist for the second time that day. We received some feedback about the boys. We gave the psychologist background of the boys history.
At the beginning of our session with the psychologist, she asked one questions that we agreed we would answer last. Psychologist asked if there is any way we could co-parent in the same city. At the end of the session I started and stated yes, and that I offered 50/50 custody to XW and that I had a transfer in place that I have not cancelled but XW will not agree. Psychologist was glad to hear that. She then asked XW if there was any way that she could move back to Michigan and XW brought up the excuse of no support, family is in Toronto.
XW then started to get on her soapbox and went back to her position of the boys are young and need to be with their mom and 50/50 would not work because there is traffic and there is no good way to schedule co-parenting in the same city...blah blah blah.
I get on my soapbox about the D and that best interest of the boys is to have two parents under the same roof.
The poor psychologist is trying to mediate all this so it does not escalate into pure chaos. She stated this is typical and understands that XW and I are both angry and mad. Psychologist is trying to look out for the best interest of the boys and says the boys would thrive more if we lived in the same city.
XW states 50/50 will not work, custody either needs to stay the same or get flipped so she has them most of the time.
The custody conversation goes 30 minutes over the session time and we end the call with XW.
I offer up a conference call to the psychologist with both my Ls so she can understand the risk. We will discuss on Monday.
I could see the facial expressions of the psychologist as XW was explaining her position as a SAHM and XW's reaction to not accepting 50/50. Psychologist seemed very surprised.
XW calls me later in the evening and states that custody needs to be 2/3rds 1/3rd either way and 50/50 will not work (because this will put a lot more financial burden on XW). I said I understand but I do not trust that if we kept custody the same that it would not change once I moved up there. XW starts to spew the same about the boys behavior degrading and lack of performance in school. Then she starts to berate me again and I start to push back. I could not talk to her anymore and just hung up.
It may be perceived that I am being stubborn about the move and trying to force it, I am glad I am doing my due diligence. I need to finalize my choice early next week so I can get some normal back in the boys lives.
Georgia Bulldogs, I appreciate the feedback again. I will respond later. I have posted enough for one morning. Time to make breakfast for the boys! Hope everyone has a great Saturday.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/10/16 06:17 AM
Your XW is completely rigid and not willing to budge at all, even if it means better health for your sons. MY WH is a seflish, egotistical marcassist but even he would jump on the chance to 50/50 parent if we divorced. Heck, he was discussing filing for divorce while he was moving down here. (he left a more lucrative job to move down here with the thought that our marriage was dead so he could be near the kids)
What I am saying is your x-wife cares about herself first and those boys last. I don't think it would be in their best interest to uproot, move to another country to live near someone who loves her ego more than her sons.
What I am saying is your x-wife cares about herself first and those boys last. I don't think it would be in their best interest to uproot, move to another country to live near someone who loves her ego more than her sons.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/10/16 06:18 AM
Jim,
Be a lighthouse. Lighthouses stay steady and stable, they don't chase the wrecked ship trying to stabilize them.
Be a lighthouse. Lighthouses stay steady and stable, they don't chase the wrecked ship trying to stabilize them.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/10/16 06:27 PM
Why do you keep negotiating with a terrorist?
Your attorney's have basically said that once you go there you are risking her filing a motion and messing with custody. It's only a matter of time before she actually gets a little rational and talks honestly with her own attorney who will absolutely tell her to agree to anything, just get you move there and THEN he or she will be sure to take you on then.
There is no way you can get her to waive her right to file a future motion in Ontario. Where there is a will, there is a way for a well-paid attorney to find a foothold upon which to state an adequate enough claim to force you back to the bargaining table. It doesn't have to be a winning argument. It doesn't have to be true (though it's supposed to be).
You've done a marvelous job demonstrating you are the safest most concern and cooperative "co-parent" and despite the counselors want to have the two of you in the same city - it's impossible despite your willingness.
Stay in Michigan. Normalize the situation and solidify your position as PRIMARY parent such that someday, in a year or more, she'll be begging you to move there and willing to agree to anything (which you shouldn't offer 50-50, but just 1/3, at most).
It won't be as risky in a year either. Sure she could bring a motion then too -- but after a year plus of consistent parenting pretty much solely by you, she won't have much of a leg to stand on.
I KNOW taking care of 5 boys alone wasn't what you signed up for when you and she adopted those boys years ago, but God won't give you more than you can handle. Focus your energies on getting help from family and friends and approach this situation as though your ex-wife has died (because she's really as good as dead to you and those boys right now).
Your attorney's have basically said that once you go there you are risking her filing a motion and messing with custody. It's only a matter of time before she actually gets a little rational and talks honestly with her own attorney who will absolutely tell her to agree to anything, just get you move there and THEN he or she will be sure to take you on then.
There is no way you can get her to waive her right to file a future motion in Ontario. Where there is a will, there is a way for a well-paid attorney to find a foothold upon which to state an adequate enough claim to force you back to the bargaining table. It doesn't have to be a winning argument. It doesn't have to be true (though it's supposed to be).
You've done a marvelous job demonstrating you are the safest most concern and cooperative "co-parent" and despite the counselors want to have the two of you in the same city - it's impossible despite your willingness.
Stay in Michigan. Normalize the situation and solidify your position as PRIMARY parent such that someday, in a year or more, she'll be begging you to move there and willing to agree to anything (which you shouldn't offer 50-50, but just 1/3, at most).
It won't be as risky in a year either. Sure she could bring a motion then too -- but after a year plus of consistent parenting pretty much solely by you, she won't have much of a leg to stand on.
I KNOW taking care of 5 boys alone wasn't what you signed up for when you and she adopted those boys years ago, but God won't give you more than you can handle. Focus your energies on getting help from family and friends and approach this situation as though your ex-wife has died (because she's really as good as dead to you and those boys right now).
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/13/16 09:12 AM
I cannot take this anymore. XW is in California and went to a rap concert with who knows who. She keeps updating her internet instant messaging profile picture.
I just want to scream and tell her how awful she is. Where is she getting any money to do all of this stuff?
So frustrated!
I just want to scream and tell her how awful she is. Where is she getting any money to do all of this stuff?
So frustrated!
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/13/16 09:36 AM
Stop checking up on her. Let her go. Unfriend her from all social media. Move forward.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/13/16 09:48 AM
Originally Posted By: JimKao
Where is she getting any money to do all of this stuff?
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/14/16 07:15 PM
I agree with Andrew. But there is also the chance her parents are funding her lifestyle, or someone else completely. If so, then DETACH! Stop checking her social media, stop monitoring her, stop snooping. You are hurting yourself.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/16/16 08:04 AM
Hello everyone, well I have been extremely busy over the last 6 days. Met with the child psychologist several times to help her understand our situation with the boys and possibly be an avenue to communicate with XW to come to an agreement about co-parenting in the same city. I have also discussed things with my L again. I have done everything I could to be amicable with no progress in developing a plan that XW and I can agree to.
I had to make the decision yesterday to stop my transfer. I sent XW an email stating that the boys will be changing school districts and was notifying her of the situation. She is not agreeing to it, so this will have to go back to court to enforce.
Here is the email I sent XW:
Hello XW,
Since my offer of 50/50 custody and co-parenting in Toronto was not accepted, I have found a home in XYZ, MI and wanted to inform you the boys will be changing schools after the Christmas break and attending ABC Elementary.
If you have any questions, please advise by close of business 12/16/16.
XW then starts texting me:
XW: First of all you made no official offer of anything
XW: You told the boys they were moving to TO
XW: How can you now tell them they're not
XW: You're an awful person through and through
XW: When is their next therapy session?
XW: You never planned to move
ME: I offered up to 50 50 multiple times and there was no agreement or progress in our discussions.
XW: Your plan was to move to XYZ, MI
XW: You're lawyer has to write it out
XW: We can't discuss anything
XW: It has to be presented in WRITING
XW: multiple times you were told to put it writing
XW: Never did
ME: If you truly wanted to work this out then you would have had your lawyer write it out.
XW: That's ridiculous you're the one moving and wanting to change the agreement
XW: It's not up to me to present changes
XW: Whatever Jim
XW: Nothing will change
ME: Ok nothing is up to you. I attempted an amicable offer.
XW: You didn't present it in WRITING
XW: there's no offer unless it's written out
ME: XW if we cant verbally agree then there is nothing to present in writing.
XW: So many times we "talked" about stuff then nothing ever happened
ME: I do not trust you.
XW: We are not supposed to discuss anything because we're not able to talk amicable
XW: We had a mediator set up
XW: What happened ???
ME: No we did not have a mediator set up.
ME: I specifically asked if you would agree to file the agreement in Ontario also and you did not.
XW: You don't even know what the f*^@ you're talking about
XW: This is a Michigan matter
XW: There is nothing to file in Ontario
XW: Talk to your lawyer
XW: Please respond to my email immediately
ME: I am sorry you feel this way.
XW: This is now an issue for the lawyers to handle
ME: I just consulted with you. XYZ schools are better
XW: No you didn't
XW: You can't just do whatever you want
ME: So will you agree or not?
XW: We have joint legal custody
XW: You didn't even ask me or inform me of your move
ME: Please answer the question
XW: It's for the lawyers to handle
XW: No I don't have to answer immediately
ME: Well you have until COB tomorrow.
XW: You can forward your request and information on the school and I'll look it over
XW: No I don't
ME: Have a good night.
XW: From now on it's best you consult with your counsel to avoid these kinds of messes
ME: I have and I also reviewed the agreement. This will have to go in front of the judge then.
XW: Ok so be it
XW: You don't get to do whatever you want
XW: Whenever you want
XW: That's not how it works
XW: Good luck getting in front of the judge before the new year
Dealing with XW is like dealing with a toddler, I want I want I want or I will make your life difficult. She has stated several times in phone conversations that she expects me to fail due to the degradation of the boys behavior and schooling and that she will eventually get custody of the boys.
I can no longer accept this type of drama in my life. Over the last few days my feelings have changed considerably towards her. I do not know if I would even accept a request for reconciliation if she offered.
I am moving forward with getting the boys into a stable home and routine. Lots to do!
I had to make the decision yesterday to stop my transfer. I sent XW an email stating that the boys will be changing school districts and was notifying her of the situation. She is not agreeing to it, so this will have to go back to court to enforce.
Here is the email I sent XW:
Hello XW,
Since my offer of 50/50 custody and co-parenting in Toronto was not accepted, I have found a home in XYZ, MI and wanted to inform you the boys will be changing schools after the Christmas break and attending ABC Elementary.
If you have any questions, please advise by close of business 12/16/16.
XW then starts texting me:
XW: First of all you made no official offer of anything
XW: You told the boys they were moving to TO
XW: How can you now tell them they're not
XW: You're an awful person through and through
XW: When is their next therapy session?
XW: You never planned to move
ME: I offered up to 50 50 multiple times and there was no agreement or progress in our discussions.
XW: Your plan was to move to XYZ, MI
XW: You're lawyer has to write it out
XW: We can't discuss anything
XW: It has to be presented in WRITING
XW: multiple times you were told to put it writing
XW: Never did
ME: If you truly wanted to work this out then you would have had your lawyer write it out.
XW: That's ridiculous you're the one moving and wanting to change the agreement
XW: It's not up to me to present changes
XW: Whatever Jim
XW: Nothing will change
ME: Ok nothing is up to you. I attempted an amicable offer.
XW: You didn't present it in WRITING
XW: there's no offer unless it's written out
ME: XW if we cant verbally agree then there is nothing to present in writing.
XW: So many times we "talked" about stuff then nothing ever happened
ME: I do not trust you.
XW: We are not supposed to discuss anything because we're not able to talk amicable
XW: We had a mediator set up
XW: What happened ???
ME: No we did not have a mediator set up.
ME: I specifically asked if you would agree to file the agreement in Ontario also and you did not.
XW: You don't even know what the f*^@ you're talking about
XW: This is a Michigan matter
XW: There is nothing to file in Ontario
XW: Talk to your lawyer
XW: Please respond to my email immediately
ME: I am sorry you feel this way.
XW: This is now an issue for the lawyers to handle
ME: I just consulted with you. XYZ schools are better
XW: No you didn't
XW: You can't just do whatever you want
ME: So will you agree or not?
XW: We have joint legal custody
XW: You didn't even ask me or inform me of your move
ME: Please answer the question
XW: It's for the lawyers to handle
XW: No I don't have to answer immediately
ME: Well you have until COB tomorrow.
XW: You can forward your request and information on the school and I'll look it over
XW: No I don't
ME: Have a good night.
XW: From now on it's best you consult with your counsel to avoid these kinds of messes
ME: I have and I also reviewed the agreement. This will have to go in front of the judge then.
XW: Ok so be it
XW: You don't get to do whatever you want
XW: Whenever you want
XW: That's not how it works
XW: Good luck getting in front of the judge before the new year
Dealing with XW is like dealing with a toddler, I want I want I want or I will make your life difficult. She has stated several times in phone conversations that she expects me to fail due to the degradation of the boys behavior and schooling and that she will eventually get custody of the boys.
I can no longer accept this type of drama in my life. Over the last few days my feelings have changed considerably towards her. I do not know if I would even accept a request for reconciliation if she offered.
I am moving forward with getting the boys into a stable home and routine. Lots to do!
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/16/16 12:45 PM
XW as toddler teenager terrorist, ugh. She knows how to push all of your buttons. Do you need to text at all? Someone else on here suggested going to email only. It's slower and more deliberate and easier to keep in archives.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/16/16 03:49 PM
Gordie
All texts are documented and I have the entire history. Same as email.
Today was the final straw. XW calls and stated for the third time that she will file a motion at the end of the school year to take custody of the boys.
I do not ever want to take her back now no matter what she would offer. I am done.
All texts are documented and I have the entire history. Same as email.
Today was the final straw. XW calls and stated for the third time that she will file a motion at the end of the school year to take custody of the boys.
I do not ever want to take her back now no matter what she would offer. I am done.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/16/16 03:54 PM
I hope you realize that may have been her plan all along when you got to Toronto. She is devious, be careful. Keep demonstrating you are a competent and caring single dad and you will be fine. Document
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/17/16 11:32 AM
Jim,
Reading your exchanges with XW, it does seem like a lot back and forth and I can understand her feelings of annoyance, although I don't agree with her behavior or the way she expresses herself.
I think it's a good idea to be cautious and stay in the US for now. I don't think she'll get anywhere with stopping you from moving within the state if it's to give the kids better opportunities and better schools and it doesn't add significantly to her travel to pick them up for visitation.
When did you decide to get a new house and change their schools? It seems like a lot of upheaval for them?
Reading your exchanges with XW, it does seem like a lot back and forth and I can understand her feelings of annoyance, although I don't agree with her behavior or the way she expresses herself.
I think it's a good idea to be cautious and stay in the US for now. I don't think she'll get anywhere with stopping you from moving within the state if it's to give the kids better opportunities and better schools and it doesn't add significantly to her travel to pick them up for visitation.
When did you decide to get a new house and change their schools? It seems like a lot of upheaval for them?
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/17/16 12:11 PM
IMHO, you have let your hopes of reconciling be the deciding factor since the day both of you left D court. As I recall, she immediately sent you a message, and you were posting here about R before the ink got dry on the D paper. If there was ever a case where love was blind.........it had to be with you. In spite of her terrible behavior, you would have R that night, if she would have agreed. I don't know if things will be better for you with letting go of hoping for a R, but somehow, I kind of think it will. I don't mean better with her.....but just better for you. I think you probably got her best years, before she wanted to adopt a housefull of children.
Jim, you are one of those DB members that everyone cares about......and like. I think every woman that has followed your threads admire you, and I'm sure the men respect how you have taken care of those five little boys, while having so much on your plate. I don't even know why I am rambling on with all of this, I just wanted to say how I wish we could help more. It means a lot that you take the time to keep us updated.
Jim, you are one of those DB members that everyone cares about......and like. I think every woman that has followed your threads admire you, and I'm sure the men respect how you have taken care of those five little boys, while having so much on your plate. I don't even know why I am rambling on with all of this, I just wanted to say how I wish we could help more. It means a lot that you take the time to keep us updated.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/18/16 07:27 AM
Originally Posted By: mvgfwd2
I hope you realize that may have been her plan all along when you got to Toronto. She is devious, be careful. Keep demonstrating you are a competent and caring single dad and you will be fine. Document
I do realize what her plan was. I led with my heart more than with my head and continued to be hopeful, even just as co-parents.
Originally Posted By: Painter
Reading your exchanges with XW, it does seem like a lot back and forth and I can understand her feelings of annoyance, although I don't agree with her behavior or the way she expresses herself.
Yes, it has been a lot of back and forth. My feelings and emotions had control of my actions. I guess I thought she would be reasonable in the move, it is clear she is still very angry and resentful towards me.
Originally Posted By: Painter
I think it's a good idea to be cautious and stay in the US for now. I don't think she'll get anywhere with stopping you from moving within the state if it's to give the kids better opportunities and better schools and it doesn't add significantly to her travel to pick them up for visitation.
When did you decide to get a new house and change their schools? It seems like a lot of upheaval for them?
I was looking at houses over the last 2 weeks. We are in this little apartment with no room for the boys to release their energy. We still have 85% of our things in storage. As much as I agree that there is a lot of upheaval, the boys are excited to move into a house and go to a school with their cousin. The school district is in the top 10 in the state. It is also a Leader in Me school also which is the same as the school they were in before we left the marital home. XW has no problem changing schools so the boys are in Canada, but has issues now, such a double standard.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
IMHO, you have let your hopes of reconciling be the deciding factor since the day both of you left D court. As I recall, she immediately sent you a message, and you were posting here about R before the ink got dry on the D paper. If there was ever a case where love was blind.........it had to be with you. In spite of her terrible behavior, you would have R that night, if she would have agreed. I don't know if things will be better for you with letting go of hoping for a R, but somehow, I kind of think it will. I don't mean better with her.....but just better for you. I think you probably got her best years, before she wanted to adopt a housefull of children.
Sandi,
As I stated in one of my first few threads, I waited a long time for a good person. For a person who I thought was better than me. At the time she was, not sure if I did get her best years. I do feel the R and M was very one sided. I reflect back and see where I missed a lot of the signs of an unhealthy R.
Originally Posted By: Sandi2
Jim, you are one of those DB members that everyone cares about......and like. I think every woman that has followed your threads admire you, and I'm sure the men respect how you have taken care of those five little boys, while having so much on your plate. I don't even know why I am rambling on with all of this, I just wanted to say how I wish we could help more. It means a lot that you take the time to keep us updated.
Thank you for the compliment. I am very blessed to have the support of this community and will never forget all those that have knocked me upside the head with a 2x4 when needed, which was a lot! I have no doubt that every person here would have given up some of their time to help support me if they were physically present where I live.
I still have a long way to go with DB. Not because I want to reconcile with XW, not because I want to be a good co-parent. I need to continue down this path to be the best person I can for myself and the boys. If another woman or XW wants to be part of it, it is a bonus for the boys and me.
There is still much that needs to settle down between XW and I. Not sure how long that will take. I just know I will try and do my best to keep the drama at bay and ensure the boys live a healthy and happy life no matter where we live.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/18/16 07:52 AM
Quote:
I was looking at houses over the last 2 weeks. We are in this little apartment with no room for the boys to release their energy. We still have 85% of our things in storage. As much as I agree that there is a lot of upheaval, the boys are excited to move into a house and go to a school with their cousin. The school district is in the top 10 in the state. It is also a Leader in Me school also which is the same as the school they were in before we left the marital home. XW has no problem changing schools so the boys are in Canada, but has issues now, such a double standard.
It does sound like an improvement. Has your L said that you can go ahead and move and change schools on your own? Courts typically don't look favorably on parents who make unilateral changes. It sounds to me like you are moving ahead a little fast. Did you give her just 24 hours to respond?
You may have to slow down your processes due to the shared custody.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/18/16 09:28 AM
Painter,
I am certain the judge will not like it, but I have heard the judge in other cases as I was sitting through motions approve of things when it was in a positive direction and in the best interest of kids. Worst case, the boys stay in the same school. Regardless, I have a plan either way on how to get them there.
My L said yes to the move and is going to file a motion for the judge to review and hopefully approve the change in school district. My L is also going to file for me to have sole legal custody.
I am certain the judge will not like it, but I have heard the judge in other cases as I was sitting through motions approve of things when it was in a positive direction and in the best interest of kids. Worst case, the boys stay in the same school. Regardless, I have a plan either way on how to get them there.
My L said yes to the move and is going to file a motion for the judge to review and hopefully approve the change in school district. My L is also going to file for me to have sole legal custody.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/22/16 10:42 AM
Whew. I'm glad to read that you've stopped your plans to transfer to Toronto. I hope you're able to get a house and provide a more stable lifestyle for your boys. I don't understand one bit why your XW would refuse 50/50 custody. Please keep us in the loop as things progress.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/22/16 09:48 PM
I second what dream said - I'm also glad you've let the Toronto plan go.
Just wanted to stop by and say hello and wish you the best.
((((((((JimKao))))))))
Just wanted to stop by and say hello and wish you the best.
((((((((JimKao))))))))
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/23/16 06:12 AM
Thank you everyone for the continued support. After L's spoke XW has agreed to the boys changing school districts. House rental is finalized and we move in on the 26th. Boys are excited, I showed them some pictures.
XW and I are now trying to schedule arbitration for assets.
Drove the boys to Toronto as they have a visit with their mom. Drive up was fun we had a blast! Posted a pic on FB and a lot of my friends commented on the pic as all 6 of us were smiling and happy.
Exchange went OK, XW sends me an email late last night with 5 questions. 2 are probably relevant that I owe a response. The remaining are based on things the kids told her. She is trying to show that I am not a "perfect" parent. I need to keep my answers short and sweet and not get sucked back into her criticism.
Going to spend the next couple of days visiting friends before we go back to spend the holidays with my family.
XW and I are now trying to schedule arbitration for assets.
Drove the boys to Toronto as they have a visit with their mom. Drive up was fun we had a blast! Posted a pic on FB and a lot of my friends commented on the pic as all 6 of us were smiling and happy.
Exchange went OK, XW sends me an email late last night with 5 questions. 2 are probably relevant that I owe a response. The remaining are based on things the kids told her. She is trying to show that I am not a "perfect" parent. I need to keep my answers short and sweet and not get sucked back into her criticism.
Going to spend the next couple of days visiting friends before we go back to spend the holidays with my family.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/24/16 06:55 AM
I am greatly relieved to read you've put the brakes on the Toronto move. I think you are protecting your sons from a potentially abusive situation from you XW. I hope you have a wonderful holiday, Jim.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/27/16 09:42 AM
Well, I think we have finally finished with all the financial and asset things. We had arbitration today to finalize assets. We have until the end of January to remove everything from storage. Arbitrator also educated us on a couple of things for co-parenting/parallel parenting. One thing he did mention was exposure to new OMs/OWs, he stated the boys need time to adjust.
Yesterday S6 randomly told me it was OK for dad to have a new girlfriend. That surprised me. Not sure why he said it, but I just laughed and thanked him and told him I was happy spending time with him and his brothers.
I received the keys to the new house yesterday and took the boys to see it. They were very excited. It will be nice to get them back into a routine and have some room for them to run around. Movers are coming tomorrow and hopefully by the end of the week we will be settled in.
The boys visit with mom was good. They stayed in a hotel again for the 3rd time. They went to their grandparents for Christmas Eve lunch. Boys said they had chicken sandwiches and some veggies. XW did not even call them on Christmas Day to see if they were having fun. On the flip side, we had a blast spending time with my family. 10 grandkids and all the siblings were together.
Now that XW has agreed for the boys to change school districts they have an extra week of vacation. I am debating whether I should offer the week to XW. It will save me on daycare costs and give the boys a bit more time with their mom. I would also have the opportunity to organize the house and get a system back in place before they start school.
I know Georgia Bulldogs suggested I not give her any additional time, but I am already D'd and at this point since she is not working, it is bonus for the kids.
Yesterday S6 randomly told me it was OK for dad to have a new girlfriend. That surprised me. Not sure why he said it, but I just laughed and thanked him and told him I was happy spending time with him and his brothers.
I received the keys to the new house yesterday and took the boys to see it. They were very excited. It will be nice to get them back into a routine and have some room for them to run around. Movers are coming tomorrow and hopefully by the end of the week we will be settled in.
The boys visit with mom was good. They stayed in a hotel again for the 3rd time. They went to their grandparents for Christmas Eve lunch. Boys said they had chicken sandwiches and some veggies. XW did not even call them on Christmas Day to see if they were having fun. On the flip side, we had a blast spending time with my family. 10 grandkids and all the siblings were together.
Now that XW has agreed for the boys to change school districts they have an extra week of vacation. I am debating whether I should offer the week to XW. It will save me on daycare costs and give the boys a bit more time with their mom. I would also have the opportunity to organize the house and get a system back in place before they start school.
I know Georgia Bulldogs suggested I not give her any additional time, but I am already D'd and at this point since she is not working, it is bonus for the kids.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/28/16 06:49 PM
While I do not have as many children as you, as a fellow owner of small humans, I recommend you offer the week to the x-wife. This gives you the time and space to organize the new place. Not only that but sometimes you just need a break from the high needs of multiple children.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/29/16 11:31 AM
I would offer the time to my partner if I was in your shoes.
Do you guys have a first right of refusal clause in your agreement?
Hope all is going well with the move.
Do you guys have a first right of refusal clause in your agreement?
Hope all is going well with the move.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/29/16 02:05 PM
Offering the time is a 2 edged sword. Good for you to get some time to get things together. Bad because it is changing the expectations of the custody agreement and XW will demand more of these exceptions and guilt you about doing it this time.
"... well you gave them to me last year, why not this year?..." blah, blah, blah
"... well you gave them to me last year, why not this year?..." blah, blah, blah
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/29/16 02:51 PM
Originally Posted By: mvgfwd2
Offering the time is a 2 edged sword. Good for you to get some time to get things together. Bad because it is changing the expectations of the custody agreement and XW will demand more of these exceptions and guilt you about doing it this time.
"... well you gave them to me last year, why not this year?..." blah, blah, blah
"... well you gave them to me last year, why not this year?..." blah, blah, blah
Agreed.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/29/16 05:18 PM
Originally Posted By: mvgfwd2
Offering the time is a 2 edged sword. Good for you to get some time to get things together. Bad because it is changing the expectations of the custody agreement and XW will demand more of these exceptions and guilt you about doing it this time.
"... well you gave them to me last year, why not this year?..." blah, blah, blah
"... well you gave them to me last year, why not this year?..." blah, blah, blah
But he can simply say something along the lines of, "I know, I think it's wonderful the boys got to enjoy some extra time with you. But we are sticking to the plan in the meantime." This woman will find ANY reason to provoke an argument, Jim needs only to control his reactivity and not rise to the bait. He cannot live his life around this capricious woman's moods. He can give himself a bit of a holiday now though and catch up on some house stuff and relax.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/29/16 06:40 PM
Sara this is about the legal ramifications...
Not what is "parentally " right or wrong.
I know it sux, but with a crazy S decisions like this have to be made in a different lenses to avoid legal custody issues.
Your point makes sense with a co parent of a reasonable nature...this sitch makes choices like this a slippery slope.
Not what is "parentally " right or wrong.
I know it sux, but with a crazy S decisions like this have to be made in a different lenses to avoid legal custody issues.
Your point makes sense with a co parent of a reasonable nature...this sitch makes choices like this a slippery slope.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/31/16 05:09 AM
Thank you everyone for all the advice and suggestions. I am going to offer her the time. XW has clearly shown she has moved on with her life and is just going to document what she feels are my shortcomings with the boys in order to get custody. I cannot let the fear stop me from trying to do what I need to do in order to settle into our new place and find a nanny to help out with the kids.
I have been feeling sad these last couple of days, missing XW a lot. Still unpacking and organizing in our new home. Going to buy some party favors for the boys and have some fun with them tonight for NYE.
I wish everyone the best this coming new year and hope that everyone has more happiness and looks for the positives in life.
This is my last post on newcomers, I will continue to post, but it is time for me to move on and will be posting under surviving the D as I think XW and I have a long road ahead of us with respect to the boys and custody still.
Happy New Year to all!
I have been feeling sad these last couple of days, missing XW a lot. Still unpacking and organizing in our new home. Going to buy some party favors for the boys and have some fun with them tonight for NYE.
I wish everyone the best this coming new year and hope that everyone has more happiness and looks for the positives in life.
This is my last post on newcomers, I will continue to post, but it is time for me to move on and will be posting under surviving the D as I think XW and I have a long road ahead of us with respect to the boys and custody still.
Happy New Year to all!
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 12/31/16 07:39 AM
I will be following you there shortly.
Enjoy the new neighborhood.
Enjoy the new neighborhood.
Re: Focus on Me and the Boys 10 - 01/01/17 03:06 PM
I'll miss you here in the "old hood". Please make sure you check in on us all.