WAW is angry and filing divorce WAW still behaving angry and
WAW still angry, moved out, D on the way? WAW moved out, spewing anger, trying to detach WAW,still angry, am I indifferent or detached now? WAW, bouts of anger still spewing, awaiting the D. Life has changed, and I choose to grow from it. I feel for your Daughter, it hurts reading it but I am so glad that you are her dad. I read your posts and see a dad that will get them through this and any other problem. Keep it up. Superheroes don't only wear capes, they are strong parents too.
You are a hero.
This quote came to me, after a particularly challenging interaction and situation with my WAW, who expressed great anger in the time after the BD...The anger spilled over onto my oldest daughter.
This quote had an impact on me that began a surge of strength in the days and weeks after that have helped turn the tide for me.
I have gathered strength and fought off the depression, anxiety, weight loss and sleep deprivation of the LBS, and it was this statement that made me realize what was at stake...and that I had the power in me to rise up from it all.
I have battled and defeated foes that were causing havoc in my realm and to those that I love...but the battle is not over...
Internal demons and villains have to be faced...alliances with those that can help me understand the powers that I posses are being made...companions that will join my team and fight with me to enjoy peace, happiness and growth will be found...and a shift in my higher power and closer relationship with the God that I believe in all will be worked towards.
This is the continuation of the story...the story that will have a happy ending...because I am still writing it...Some may see it as a hero story...others simply as a story of a man that was broken,and then put back together...Either way, if I can leave a trail of knowledge, experiences or little nuggets of wisdom that can help someone when they find themselves in a dark place.
A dark place like they never imagined...then I will have made a small repayment for the great compassion, guidance and new friendships that were provided to me when I thought all was lost.
I pray for each of you that the strength be granted to help you on your journey... to write your story...and create a happy ending as you would like to experience.
"Nothing is given to man on earth - struggle is built into the nature of life, and conflict is possible - the hero is the man who lets no obstacle prevent him from pursuing the values he has chosen." -
Andrew Bernstein
Here's a toast to my favourite super hero and his words of wisdom.
In your present incarnation as wolverine, may you have the strength to accept what will be, the courage to change that can be changed. I am sure that you have the wisdom to know the difference.
(((SH)))
"If you're writing about a character, if he's a powerful character, unless you give him vulnerability, I don't think he'll be as interesting to the reader." - Stan Lee
"This is the continuation of the story...the story that will have a happy ending...because I am still writing it..." Sh_
Just dropping by to check on you. I hope you being quite is a good sign.
Your recent postings seem (to me) written like a fiction/fantasy. I know you use the hero analogy and run with that. No harm there. Without judgement or criticism I wonder if it is the real you?
I hope you and your daughters are keeping well. Another curiosity on my part, how did your D get on with her attempts to create situations where she would be rejected?
Best wishes Sage Homme ( just testing your french!!)
Thank you Grl..
In your present incarnation as wolverine, may you have the strength to accept what will be, the courage to change that can be changed. I am sure that you have the wisdom to know the difference.
With experience I am gaining in this wisdom...still a long road ahead, but I am focused on this point as I push on.
Ct, I love to have found a fellow comic story ner...er..comic story enthusiast...we are not nerds, just folks that enjoy learning from characters whether fictitious or real...There are lessons that can be learned and if we are nerds, well, as I see it, nerds are pretty much running the world...Bill Gates anyone???
roist my dear friend. I was just thinking about you.
Yes, I am doing fine even though I have pullback a bit...trying to refocus my direction and need to look with in.
Your recent postings seem (to me) written like a fiction/fantasy. I know you use the hero analogy and run with that. No harm there. Without judgement or criticism I wonder if it is the real you?
Might you expound on this a bit? What do you mean when you ask if this is the real me? I don't take it as judgement or criticism, I am curious about your perception in more detail and I might be able to share more as to my thoughts for this...
My daughters are doing well. D18 has kept true to her efforts to overcome the challenging fear of rejection. She just shared with my how she is doing well and gets several rejection per day and is feeling stronger for it. She has really forged forward and I can see the benefits for her. She goes after what she wants like a bulldog and is a true example to me. So proud of her.
Thank you for each of you dropping by and supporting my continuation here.
Hey, I am a proud nerd and wear the badge with flair! I am on the lowest person on the totem pole, I'm a Trekkie for crying out loud. When other girls had pictures of teenage heart throbs on their walls I had Star Trek characters, mostly Spock.
Nerds rule the world, we patiently tolerated being stuffed in lockers and having quantum wedgies given to us. Now those perpetrators mow our lawns and walk our dogs. The best revenge is success, eh? (smiles evilly)
I have always been fond of the saying "The geeks will inherit the Earth." Quirky nerdiness is a virtue, as far as I'm concerned.
Silver Heart, I am just stopping by to say hello, and wishing you well on your AD tapering adventure. I'm about 2 weeks into my 25% reduction, and I'm doing OK. I had a few rough days, and I worried if the tapering SSRI roller-coaster was making those days worse, but, all in all, I think that I've been much more resilient of late. I think that I'm going to ask for another dose reduction when I see my doc again in a a couple more weeks.
My thinking also feels really sluggish at times, though I"m not inclined to blame that on my ADs. I think that it is a reflection of the incredible emotional turmoil that we've been through. Just getting through a single day now takes up a huge percentage portion of our intellectual band width. I find it amazing that LBSs still are able to function at all, but we do, and we do it pretty darn well, considering...
I have to get to sleep. I have been doing a bit better on that front lately, but tonight I am plainly falling down in the sleep hygiene department. I'm sitting here, tapping away at my keyboard at 3 am instead of sleeping. Time to fix that little problem...
SH, I hope that you are doing well, and that the numbness starts to clear.
good night!
Today has been a challenging one...
I fell into a berserker rage and may have cut someone that I care for...
I am not getting out of this dark shadow, and it feels that the harder I try the more entrapped I become...
It is pulling more tightly around me...
The simmering frustration...anger...rage...why is it there?
I am not angry at anyone!
I just feel exasperated trying to accomplish things and then I lash out as those around me that try and tell me how I feel...what I meant by what I said...what I am thinking...feeling...doing...
I just need to go away for a spell.
I need to understand what is real, perceived, and simply the projections of others...
I need to discover who I am without the influence of everyone around me telling me...telling me that I am not happy, that I seem upset, that I need to do this or that...
Why does it get to me so much?
What is hiding under the surface that has such a spark that I try to snuff out, to avoid an explosion?
I don't understand it...
My inner demons are dark and vast,
Some live in the present, some in the past.
You can only hide them for so long,
But they always peak their head,
From the trapped doors in my memories,
Through the closed doors in my mind,
Between the cracks in my broken heart,
Hiding in the dark alley's of my soul.
Sooner or later these demons will gain control,
Whenever, they see weakness from within your soul.
These demons will test you at every turn,
Wishing you to welcome them, Damning you to burn.
Don't say anything and just look away,
Block out their voices, only then,
Can you start to make the right choices.
Jarred Coleman
I don't have any other option but to withdraw from it all...
I cannot contain it, it seems.
This is not the person I want to look at in the mirror...
This is not the life that I want to provide for those that I care for.
I pray for all that are in their own struggle...may peace...inner peace be found for you.
SH, my thoughts and prayers are with you.
(((SH)))
Rainbow hugs, SH. I am so sorry that you are now experiencing so much anguish.
I hope you get the reprieve that you need, SH.
Let the anger come. Feel it and ask yourself, where can the anger come from?
Is there a person you feel safe working this through with?
Hello, dear friend. I want to ask you a very serious question: When is the last time you pencil-smiled or listed to f*ck that?
I am not going to tell you how you feel, or how you can fix it.
I just want you to know that I am still here, that I am still squarely in your corner, and to let you know that I think you are a fine person just as you are.
I will ask you to consider, though, getting back to some of the basics that we talked about when we both first came here.
You've done so much soul-searching and digging and analyzing and reading and researching, and now perhaps the pendulum has swung a bit too far. Maybe it's time to just sit back for a little while and focus on the present moment. Maybe it's time to stop looking so far inside that you turn yourself inside out. Let the effort to be a hero go for a while, and embrace the wonderful imperfections that make you who you are. Look in the mirror and see the beauty that lives inside of you.
Turn back toward the light, my friend.
Look at the beautiful faces of your daughters, and you will see the light within you that is reflected in them. Your daughters don't love you because you might become something better/bigger/stronger/deeper/more ____ in the future. They love you because of who you are right now, and because you have been there for them their entire lives, their source of stability and safety and unconditional love.
You don't need to stretch and grow and hammer yourself into a new form that you deem an improvement. You need to rediscover that you are good, just as you are. You are humble, kind, loving, brave, compassionate, strong, forgiving, and I know I am not the only person here who admires you deeply.
Remember how we talked about the grieving process, and how everything you are feeling is completely normal??? Well, that holds just as true now as it did months ago. There is no time frame for this recovery process, and the longer the relationships we are coming out of, the longer we can expect this process to take. You and I were with our spouses for over 2 decades!!! We're not even halfway through our recovery journeys yet. Please be gentle with yourself, my friend.
Go way back to the most basic things that we started with here: Take a moment today and ask yourself, "what can I do today that will make me feel like myself again?" What can you do that is purely for pleasure, rather than because it is good for you or because it is what you or anyone else might thing is the right thing to do? Give yourself a mini vacation from the constant desire to push, to grow, to understand, to reach, to dig deeper.
Just breathe, Silver Heart. You are still healing.
I will reply to the q you asked me. I had a feeling you could have been hiding behind your words. Painting a superficial fantasy to cover reality. But it could as easily just been that you are more elegant/poetic in your choice of words. I posed my question to be sure.
You have many friends and followers here. Before retreating to ponder on things alone, could you do two things for me:
1. Elaborate on this anger and the incident where you want to cut a friend.Cut someone where I come from means slice with a knife, though it could be used to signify dump/remove from your life. I hope you meant the latter.In which case, I will say that you get to chose who is in your life and what is acceptable. Sometimes that does mean excluding someone we would prefer not to. Do what is best.
2. Remember this board and its members are here for you when you want/need us. You have helped many here. But now look after yourself.
Best wishes
Phoebe, that is EXCELLENT advice.
We get so caught up in this self improvement thing (which is great) but sometimes we forget to stop and appreciate who we are, in the moment.
It is good to see you reboosting your efforts here to motivate others and help newbies. I hope you are following your own advice and are looking after you
Best wishes
Forgivness CT - As promised - this was posted to me on 7/29/09 by Bworl. It has stuck with me all this time. As mentioned it probably took to about 2011 or 2012 before I could actually implement it. Please read and use as necessary.
Here's a little passage from William Young's book The Shack.
If you haven't read it Mules, I can't recommend it highly enough. Deb read it first, passed it on to me and it was a one day read for me. I couldn't put it down.
Anyway, here are some of the things he had to say about forgiveness in his book...
Quote:
"Forgiveness is not about forgetting. It is about letting go of another person's throat......Forgiveness does not create a relationship. Unless people speak the truth about what they have done and change their mind and behavior, a relationship of trust is not possible. When you forgive someone you certainly release them from judgment, but without true change, no real relationship can be established.........Forgiveness in no way requires that you trust the one you forgive. But should they finally confess and repent, you will discover a miracle in your own heart that allows you to reach out and begin to build between you a bridge of reconciliation.........Forgiveness does not excuse anything.........You may have to declare your forgiveness a hundred times the first day and the second day, but the third day will be less and each day after, until one day you will realize that you have forgiven completely. And then one day you will pray for his wholeness......"
— William P. Young (The Shack)
Blessings,
Bill
I'm not telling anyone to stop what they're doing an go forgive their WW. I am saying that for you to grow as a person, this will eventually have to take place. For now, it's just food for thought.
Strength and Honor.
Mules
You know SH
The most and only important person to forgive is yourself.
I recently understood that the reason I had little anger was I had forgiven V. Anger good quality white anger is motivating and creates change.
You feel as you feel, doesn't make it so in your sitch.
Observe the anger as it passes that is interesting.
V
I love the post on forgiveness, SH. I think forgiveness is about letting go of your own throat as well.
I am still trying very hard to internalise the difference of learning from my mistakes and self-flagellation.
(((SH)))
That was a nice bit on forgiveness. Thank you.
Admittedly, I struggle with forgiveness. It has been some time now that H has been back (1.5 years) and I have not fully forgiven him yet. Some days I don't even want to. I agree with the quote that it happens in steps. It is not simply a switch that is turned on or off. My process has been rather slow--3 steps forward and 2 steps back.
I don't know what I am so afraid of. I can understand why the sequence of events happened in the deterioration of our M and I can see my part as well. Where I get stuck is simply the betrayal. To be honest, I may come to a point where I move away from this M. That is what my instincts tell me. Not anytime soon, not in the next several years, but some day. I want to know that I stuck it out and tried my best. H is a changed man--a good man, H, and father--but I continue to long for the way I used to feel about him. My heart is forever damaged. How do you forgive someone fully for that?
Sometimes I think coming here and reading/posting prevents me from moving forward and finding more forgiveness. When I read the posters' struggles, pain, and desperation I can't help but want to protect them. I don't feel an emotional trigger, but more a reminder of what I went though and that I allowed this man to destroy me. It took me far too long to let go of him. and pick myself up. It's is taking many of you too long as well!
I wish more posters would stop pining for the person who is hurting them and let go. LET GO. It's your only hope for healing and their only hope for finding themselves and possibly a way back to the M. I feel that so many here are trying to be a lighthouse, a friend, and just waiting, when really they are a door mat with a lost soul.
Maybe I need to go on a DB diet. Maybe that is why folks in piecing go dark from this site. I can see so clearly where folks are going wrong but I feel so powerless. I really admire all of you that keep coming back and helping others for all these years.
Everyone deserves respect, love, and you are ALL valuable. But you cannot look to your M to find yourself or your happiness in life. It comes from within. Even if and when they do come back it will never, ever be the same. The M is dead. The innocence is gone. Only if you both have let go, grieved the end, and learned to love yourself, and only then, can you build something stronger together. I may or may not reach that point, but I am a work in progress.
Blu
Forgivness-of ones selfTrusting ones selfSo, I have been thinking about this a bit...
To me, I think that the key to building trust was about finding forgiveness....
The trust had been broken, yes, and it needed to be rebuilt from BOTH sides, and the trust that I needed to find first, was the trust with myself. I betrayed my own trust just as much as my Ex ever did. I betrayed myself, and the things that I promised way before she ever stepped outside of that trust circle.
So for me ? Trusting myself in my actions and decisions was way harder than worrying about trusting her again. And to this day ? I do not trust her, yet for very different reasons that I would expect them to be.
It started for me by realizing and accepting that I played a role in the demise of the relationship. I had to own the things that led me to betray my vows, way earlier than she did. I was just as depressed, and angry as she ever was. I let fear drive my actions, not ever being aware that I had fear. I was controlling, superior, condescending, and out of touch with any kind of relationship skills. I assumed her feelings continually , and I was an absent parent throughout most of my children's infancy.
There were reasons for most of that. Obligation was a main issue, and the reason I was working long hours. Yet looking back, and through the next step of things. It really didn't matter what the reasons were. I WAS guilty of all the above. And I own them , not proudly, just the flag that I fly now. Absolute truth....
When I first started delving into myself, I resisted seeing those things because I was still looking for this to be somebody's fault except my own. I wanted to blame her, I wanted to blame MLC, and I wanted anything other than that person in the mirror. When I started really being honest about it, I was just as much, probably even more at fault than she was. Way more at fault than MLC was. I was not responsible for her MLC, that was a perfect storm inside of her own head. I was however, responsible for my actions that led her to many triggers.
IF.....IF what we read and hear is true, and that having another person firmly entrenched within the middle of our Marriages, is nothing more than a Band-Aid, and not the real reason, or root cause of our Marriage failing, then the real issues need to be owned and addressed BEFORE any healing can occur. As much as I needed somebody else to be at fault, when I hit MY bottom, the only way back to the top was the truth within myself. This actually had little to do with her.
The more people that I talked to (DBers), and the more books that I read, convinced me that my way out of my self imposed Hell, was forgiveness. What the F was that ? How does THAT happen ? I can tell you that I didn't have a clue how to answer that. Maybe I still don't know how to word it, not even sure that I remember there being actual steps involved in it. What I do remember, is that to truly forgive, has zero to do with another person.
I took the time to break down each of the things that I felt responsible for. The fact that I emotionally abandoned her, that I was angry, that I was depressed, that when I abandoned her, I still held her accountable for my emotional well being. That I needed to hold on too tightly to her, fearing that she would leave one day. Working toward that being the goal instead of getting off of my ass and working toward being a better person.
I realized that the only thing that I had ever known, was what I had ever seen, The role models that had been in place for me growing up. The lifestyle that I witnessed, watching my own Mother's MLC at an early age, that ripped through my childhood. I did the best that I could, with the tools that I had at that time. Not an excuse, yet it is the reason.
When I worked through those things, is when I started to realize that what I was doing, was a choice, and that I COULD go through the rest of my life being the same old Asshat that I had been previously. And that the cycle would repeat if I didn't break the chain. My days became lighter, and my darkness started becoming brighter. Day by day, I started seeing things for what they really were, and not what my rose colored glasses tinted them as.
I could see forgiveness through all of the darkness, for the first time ever. Owning all of those things allowed me to free my mind of all the excuses that I used to carry around....EMBRACING my mistakes allowed me to start forgiving those things. And forgiving those things had nothing to do with her, it had to do with myself.
After that, I had to sort out the other crap, which was everything that she had done to betray the marriage and relationship. And I have to admit, by the actions that I had made, I really cannot blame her for trying to find the emotional support that I had abandoned years earlier. I really didn't blame her for trying to find the things that fed her soul, that I really didn't understand (because I hadn't taken the time to feed them for her). I really didn't blame her for trying to find support through parenting when I was absent. And I especially couldn't blame her for her MLC, and unresolved issues that were dancing around in her head. So what was left ???
It was the dishonesty that was my last straw. the lying.......
That was the hill that I was willing to die on, and the hill that the relationship did die on....
How does that tie into trust ??
Good question, and I guess that in typing all of that ^^^, maybe my sight of it has changed up a bit.
Trusting again, was one of the hardest things to do. Old triggers play a part, and new triggers are formed. I can tell you that trusting myself was way harder than trusting another person again. Trusting myself to not repeat the same behaviors that led me here 6 years ago. All of that comes into play. Trusting another person (in the confines of a relationship) is way less pressure than trusting myself in those same confines. Trusting myself to not make those same mistakes again.
Trust is the hardest thing to gain, and the easiest thing to lose. Last to show up, and first to leave.
And IF I could make the mistakes that I made, and was able to trust myself again, then nothing that anyone else had done , was worse than what I did to myself.... And IF reconciliation was ever a possibility, then I owed it to her (understanding MLC and all) to try to trust again. Through Faith, is trust given, and with my vow to her, I would have owed that to her....
I DO trust myself now, through a lot of hard work, and absolute truth with myself. And there are days when I do better than others with it. I do recognize those things when I am off, and I do recognize the things I do well.
I will say that to achieve any kind of relationship, there has to be trust, and however that happens is up to the people within that relationship. And it has to be a common goal for each party. What each other are comfortable with, and what they are willing to give to keep that trust all safe and warm.
I think that trust starts in a reconciliation through the common goal of WANTING to remain married. Trust starts small, and builds through trusting, yet verifying that trust. I think that trust builds through actions matching the words, and certain steps in place ( MC, etc) to protect that trust. Taking only in "safe" environments for example. Agreed check points for electronic devices for EACH party. Being as willing to give, as well as receive. Being aware of certain "triggers" and not assuming that you know anything. Being able to listen even better than talking. Being able to show trust in order to get it in return.
Another thing that I will say is, that DBing is perfect for detaching, and keeping the Monsters at bay through this. However, the things that we learn through DBing, aren't always perfect for the re-connection process. My advice would be to live within the moments, rather than what we accept as "normal" though MLC. Access every situation, and take things as they are, not what we expect them to be, or worse yet...assume that they will be.
To me, love means being vulnerable . There isn't any way around it. Love is a risk that we are willing to take in our lives. Part of living life to its fullest is part of being vulnerable. Being vulnerable in other aspects of life seems to be accepted more easily at times. Maybe a person sky-dives, or rock climbs. Even more so ? I get into my vehicle every morning to come to work....am I vulnerable ? Even more so than in a relationship.
I was asked last night..." Are trust and forgiveness two different things? "
I answered that they tied into each other. And I do believe that.
Without forgiving myself, I would never be able to trust myself. And trusting myself was the first step towards being able to trust another person again.
After much thought and contemplation of the recent theft of 2 posters that I respect and admire as I read there thoughts and wisdom, i feel compelled to journal my summary of thoughts.
There is much to be gained in the healing power of forgiving another...
But I believe that in order to be able to truly forgive another...we must learn how to and forgive ourselves.
Many of us say we forgive others...but do we say that we do and then walk away?
With space and time we may simply be forgetting...not forgiving.
But that is not an option when we are faced with the challenge to forgive ourself...no option for space...and time with ourself creates the perfect storm of rumination of that which we did to break our own trust.
This may be the dark cloud that hangs in my heart and mind...I have broken my own trust...I have seen my shortcomings with clarity since the day she told me she was leaving.
I have learned that I do not hold all of the fault...but...but I do hold my self responsible for much that I do own the burden of...and possibly a bit more.
I am seeing that my anger at her is a projection of what I am not forgiving myself for...my anger in general is at myself.
I have been seeking forgiveness for my W...I have found anger and spite and annoyance and even thoughts of good riddance when she scowls at me or is snappy about minor insignificant things...Forgiveness eludes me, although more space and time is desired by me.
Why is becoming a bit more clear now. I can not forgive her, because I am projecting much on to her...much that is me...much that I must resolve and forgive and rebuild my own trust for.
So that is the journey that I must pursue..for without trust in myself, how will I ever make decisions or take action tat is needed to progress or be successful in this life?
The berserker rage that I had and lashed out at one that I hold most dear was because I have not forgiven myself for much and it was called out inadvertently.
Her super power is unconditional love and the ability to see past my shortcomings...so while I know that my words and behavior in the moment cut her as it would any that I lash out at...she healed my perceived wounds by choice and would not let me retreat.
But I slowly continue to pull away...I do not trust myself...Isolation is my answer for now.
While I seek solitude as I determine answers for the conflict in my thoughts and desires, I have been contacted by several that have wisdom and compassion for my plight. For this I am grateful...for it is through their guidance and challenges to my thoughts and conflicts, I am seeing light...hope...possibilities that I can indeed, learn self forgiveness and trust...the ability to forgive and trust others...I can heal and strengthen the super powers provided to me and my care in this life by the higher powers.
I thank those of my tribe here that have lent support as I have withdrawn...your words and kindness touch my heart...it gives me strength to know that there are those out there in this world fighting their own battles, that still stop to lend a hand and strength to the likes of me.
Thank you.
You are in my prayers...although I admit, they have become weak and with struggle of late...but I do hold each of you in my heart.
I pray someday I may have real names and faces to place to many of you so that I may grasp in a firm handshake or hug and tell you from my lips to your ears...Thank you. You have pulled me up, and though I stumble, you were there to pull me up again.
Sleep in peace this night.
You are in my prayers.
“We can never obtain peace in the outer world until we make peace with ourselves.” Dalai Lama
There is much to be gained in the healing power of forgiving another...
But I believe that in order to be able to truly forgive another...we must learn how to and forgive ourselves.
Many of us say we forgive others...but do we say that we do and then walk away?
With space and time we may simply be forgetting...not forgiving.
Very important statement here SH_. I hope it's ok I pop in here for a minute as you seem like you are at a crossroads.
I totally agree with you on how many of us say we forgive others and walk away. To me, true forgiveness (whether of one's self or another) is measured in actions not words. And honestly when there is infidelity involved it may be the toughest thing one ever faces.
I also agree with you about time causing one to forget rather than truly forgive.
I think you are on this and your mindset is in the perfect place. Don't stop.
I mentioned to CT, forgiveness is not dropping the issues and running back to your spouse. It's about true growth as a person. I mentioned on another thread, that personally it took me 3 -4 years to truly forgive. That doesn't mean I wanted my XW back. Not at all. It meant that I was able to forgive her for hurting me badly and putting the sitch behind us. Believe me, when she sensed that I truly did that, she looked at me a lot differently. She has changed drastically since those days. I have no doubt she regrets things she did. I think she is shocked at how much I have grown as a person over the years.The thing is, my growth as a person helped me to see what i truly find attractive in another person. It has made my current R so much better for me.
You can handle this SH. I know you can. I read your posts and see a person gaining control.
Strength and Honor.
Mules
It all depends how you define forgiveness.
I never received an apology in 8 years or remorse from my ex. Forgiveness was going to have to come from within to free my soul.
I just realized I forgave one day. It was the day I realize I am not harboring anger, bitterness and resentment that was holding me back from my true growth and that was keeping me stuck.
I have not forgotten what they have done. I do not condone what they have done. But Forgiveness for me was a freedom from the hurt and pain they caused me. Forgiveness was saying "ok, they have done what they done, it can't be changed, and I want to not let it control my life anymore. I just want peace."
And BOOM! That's when I had felt I had forgiven.
"I don't believe in spirit animals, cause I ain't no fruitcake. But if I did? F**k yeah, mine's a Wolverine." - Logan
Hope you are doing well buddy.
OK
This is a different voice.
I simply do not believe in forgiveness in all situations. Some things are unforgiveable. Others it simply is not my place to forgive. And in others I simply don't need to, I have detached.
Here are my thoughts
It isn't my place to forgive another, it really isn't. It is the higher powers right and honour to do so. I am not one up on another, I have no right to judge. I can evaluate the damage done to me on the action of another.
Forcing yourself to forgive another or doing so because me memes tell you it will be good for you, may make you guilty or ashamed.
Has the other asked for forgiveness? Repented? Remorsed? Atoned?
Or are they simply saying that's my line in the sand, put up with it, or get over it? That's blaming you. What have they done to resolve it? Seriously, until they do then boundaries suggest that you keep them out of your life.
Do you forgive others if they keep on? Turn the other cheek means it's useful not to react physically. You can do so emotionally by detaching. Does than mean the best thing to do is to let go of resentment, the need for revenge, the need to hurt back. Yes I believe it does. Such things rebound.
I project love and rainbows to xWH, I truly do. I wish the Giggalo Hunting days are over, that he is happy with RIT. And he stays abroad and he leaves me alone.
If there are children involved it isn't so easy if there is damage going on. Behaviours involving children are not easy to forgive.
Forgiving doesn't mean no boundaries or letting harm happen again. It also doesn't mean no consequences for actions. I am truly sorry isn't a free pass.
It also isn't my job to punish either, or hold a grudge, or respond in kind. That is the higher power. Will xWH ever know the harm he has done? Does he care? I doubt it. If he atoned, apologised would that make a difference? Possibly, in those circumstances, the path to forgiveness is smoother. Would I ever forget? Would I ever trust? That is for the future not for now. Forgiveness isn't on the cards today.
--------------------------------
There is however areas that I do firmly believe in forgiveness.
For yourself to yourself. For the things which are part of the process, for loving of you. Your higher power can forgive you and you make amends. Hard as it is to do so, that is for you.
You did the best you could with the knowledge you had at that time. Forgive and love the man and father that is SH. He has atoned, he has thought, he has asked for forgiveness.
The Lords prayer asks us to forgive others if they harm us as we get forgiven. That includes ourselves and know you are forgiven. Accept it. Let the Higher Power forgive as it surely will.
Trust. Love, Forgiveness. They are separate and each can be independent of the others.
Detach, love and let go.
Breathe.
Big hugs
V
SH_
Hope you are well.
-CT1118
Hello, Silver Hero!
Just little old me, checking in on you and wondering how you are doing. Hoping that no news is good news.
((((((((((Super Heart))))))))))
(((SH)))
How are you my friend? Long time, no see.
Blu
Just me again, dropping by for tea and biscuits. Sorry I missed you.
Hello Neighbors!!
I have felt compelled to stop in and share some updates, stories, thoughts and hopefully some wisdom.
I am currently penning these and will post them as I complete them in the manner that I can look too with pride, satisfaction and points of learning and progressing.
I have been on a journey that has provided some insights that I want to act upon. Some challenges and some successes...but, I want those that have checked in on me to know that I am well and gaining strength and momentum with each day.
But first I want to thank those of you that have stopped by and shared support and checking on on me. It means much to me to feel such friendship and support from others during these times
Mules,
I really appreciate your thoughts and confirmation of my gathered information and my thoughts on forgiveness. It was an honor to have you do so as I have read much of what you share with others. You are a class act and I admire what you do after what you went through.
Thank you friend.
Strength and honor
Ginger, a firecracker as always. I truly appreciate the support you have given me. The opportunity to share compassion with me and say it like it is is very much the frequency that clicks for me...You are one special lady and don't you forget it.
CT, my brother.
I am ever impressed with your thoughts, musings, and wisdom as you wade through the treacherous waters that have been the disintegration of what was your marriage...in spite of it all you push forward and have potentially made more progress in your life as a person during this time than potentially the remainder of your life...now I know this to be a bold statement on my part, and maybe I am projecting much of the fire and pressure that I have experienced onto you...I sense a kindred spirit when I read what you share...
Thank you my friend. We have shared little in each others stories, but when you share in mine or yours I get much from it and feel a connected path in what we experience.
I am grateful that our paths have crossed, in spite of the circumstances that lead us both here at this time.
Lady V.
I cherish all that you share with me. Your wisdom ere in my story is invaluable and I read back on it frequently. Thank you for that...and all that you have done and continue to do for me. There are no words to adequetly express what I feel for what you have done...I will take action to honor that which you have paid forward to me.
Blu,
My thoughts are with you often...due to our interactions here...the thought provoking topics that you have brought up...the conversations that we have had in the forum...the sadness that I feel when I think of what you have endured and survived...yet, the real weight that tugs at me is your struggle now. It is a struggle with self. The biggest challenge of all. I pray for you regularly...I hope against hope that a sparkle of light can break through the dark cloud for you.
You understand DBing...you worry that you applied them to late...you question whether to discontinue them and step back from it all...I pray that you can see the principles are the key.
I see many focus on the steps to interact with their partner... and I understand that this is the bulk of the writings in her book, but I see these steps the ones that should have been taken at the first sign of issues in our marriages...and IMHO, the majority of us here,saw them to late, or not at all until the BD.
Unfortunately, the DB principles for most of us here are summed up in the small chapters that are the LRT and the or the after the LRT. The challenge is that it is the bare bones of what we need to do.
And then there is also the need for more details as it relates to infidelity...word has it that MWD guidance for this is due shortly...
But my point is that DBing is about self...focus on self...becoming the best version of self there is.
This is done through the techniques as outlined in DBing...
I can share more if you are interested in my thoughts on this, but my point is, that overtime I read in here, "this will go against DB" , or "maybe stop DBing in order to do this that or the other"...I cringe...DB principles at their core are about being a better person...and treating others in the manner that our better person would do.
I have MWD other book "Change your Life and Everyone in it" This is not a marriage book. It is a life book. The principles are the same...
It is a How to, Transform difficult relationships, overcome anxiety and Depression, and Break free from Self defeating ways of Thinking, Feeling, and Acting.
I would imagine that many in here should be reading this...but everyone here will need to take their own journey and determine when and how they will learn the knowledge that can help them take actions...
I apologize for the draw out preachy thing again...still working on this for myself.
Blu, you will get through...you will know when it is time to make the decision to do what you must do. I will be here to support you...
(((Blu)))
Sara, I noticed that I missed your post about your inner Trekkie nerd.
Don't let them fool you, there is no way that is lowest on the totem pole...My dad was a Trekkie, so yep, I was as well. I still go to see the new version in the theaters...
Speaking of Trekkies, I am concerned for you...I pray that you can see that you are standing in a very cheerless tunnel...MWD speaks of this, it takes 2 to work on a marriage...to piece...Your WH has shown time and time again that he is not on board...I do hope that you can reevaluate your approach...LRT is the only option for any chance...and I say chance, because as MWD states, there are no guarantees...
So back to the Trekkie quotes...you know I like my wisdom in bite size quotes.
Spock-
“Change is the essential process of all existence.”
It is time for you to make a change my dear Sara
“In critical moments, men sometimes see exactly what they wish to see.”
Have you seen what you wished to see? Please step back, because from the outside, many of us see something different...
“Live long and prosper.”
You will my dear Sara. It may seem bleak now, but you have much to offer and there are people out there that can offer what you need in return...
Phoebe, my dear Phoebe.
Oh how I wish I could just scoop you up and take you far away for a vacation to forget it all...but alas, I know the the only way...is through.
As you know I have shared much of my efforts and learnings on how to be in control of my mind so that I can acknowledge my emotions, but not be controlled by them...I have sought teachings from Buddha, church and people that have share science, and beliefs...
I was reading some stuff from Matthieu Ricard in his thoughts of the week on FB. It is on Nov 21st and he talks about a basket, challenges and our mind.
Check it out, it is a simple concept, but has much wisdom and power in it.
Look to the Buddha there, for additional wisdom.
Remember as you continue forward on your Journey,
"Your worst enemy cannot harm you as much as your own unguarded thoughts." Buddha
(((((Phoebe))))
I pray for each of you that pass through here...I know the struggle...I know the darkness...I now know there is light on the path...but one must walk forward if they want to bask in it's warmth.
Trust me, there is little good in standing still in the cheesless tunnels...there are several friends that I pray can see this and walk forward.
May you find peace this fine evening and renew your strength in a calm sleep so that you can face the new week and find success in your journey.
"Your worst enemy cannot harm you as much as your own unguarded thoughts." Buddha
Well, that's the truth.
SH, it's time for tea and conversation.
I've been missing you, and am glad to see you again. I put this exact same post in my own thread, because I wanted to be able to find it. Sorry for the redundancy.
It's been such a long journey that we've been on, and, certainly, I still have a long way to go, but in many ways I know that I have changed so very much over the past 11+ months. Maybe I haven't been spending nearly enough time with the Buddha's teachings, but I have gained some skills that lean in that direction. I'm not altogether sure when they showed up, as I think they have been building very gradually, but I am grateful.
I thought maybe I should write them down, as a bit of journaling, just so I can see how far I've come.
Most of the time I can recognize and allow myself to feel whatever emotions come along these days, knowing full well that they are normal and that they will also pass, and all the more easily if I allow them into, and then out of, my life. I can let myself feel without fear that I will lose myself to my emotions. Feeling are just feelings. They will pass.
I can control my thoughts so much better these days, and that is priceless beyond measure. If I notice that I am getting into a mental loop that promises nothing positive, I am getting quite good at shutting it down and letting myself move on to something better. I can direct myself down different thought paths if necessary, but I can generally clear my mind almost as well. I am able to be present in the moment most of the time, without stray thoughts meandering through to sabotage my enjoyment of the moment.
I have learned that forgiveness is a gift I give myself. STBXH need never know. Forgiveness is letting the past go so that it no longer has power over me. And I have also learned that I needed to forgive myself. I know that I was part of the problem, yet I also know that I did the best I could with the knowledge I had at the time. I was true, and I gave my love unreservedly. I stood, and chose to shine my light into the darkness, to be the lighthouse.
I've been though something incredibly painful and difficult, and yet I do not feel that I have been permanently damaged. It does not and will not define me. Lately I have been looking to my future and my dreams again. Maybe they will be different than I imagined them, once upon a time, but I am still myself, and my dreams are still my own.
Silver Heart, I looked over at FB for MR's thoughts, and I'm not altogether sure what to make of them. I don't see anyone as my enemy, not even my STBXWH. If anything, I pity him. I believe that he gave up something that was not perfect, but was genuinely good. He is not yet able to see that for himself because he is still so bound in his own anger and struggling with his own demons. I hope that someday he can tie the many threads of his own life back together again.
For myself, I will try to take care of my mind wisely, just as MR suggests. I think that I will take up the threads that surround me and weave myself a tapestry of friends and family, nature and farm.
Goodnight.
((((((((((Silver Heart))))))))))
Hey there SH, I am reading a lot of your thoughts and philosophy but how about your journey? I e
I have debated in my mind all day as to whether I should journal and share today…
I have much emotion and feelings flowing, and truth be told, I am not in a place of control where I want to understand it, nor tussle with it further…
But as I sit here preparing to go to sleep, (sleep is much needed as I find myself up till late hours engaged in thought provoking research and reading,) I know I need to dump some of what rattles in the chambers of my head.
First, I want to address my dear Phoebe…My dear Phoebe…return to the MR thought of the day and look to the Buddha…the thoughts to clarify “an enemy”, and our thoughts, are in the comments and pondering…
Once you have returned, we can then continue the conversation over tea.
It is such good news to hear you are in a good place. There is more to experience and enjoy… look to the Buddha.
My dear Sara,
What is it of my journey that may help you? I would be honored to share anything that may benefit…
I have tried to focus on my internal journey, as there, is where I will create my awakening; connect the dots that are my thoughts, my words and my actions.
Now, much of the daily details of the journey are made up of meaningless routine, discouraging encounters with my STBX, challenges in overcoming poor habits…and my attempts to re engage fully into life.
I have been reading and learning of the observer mode that our dear friend Vanilla has discussed.
This has its benefits in managing myself.
It also has its drawbacks in how I observe others.
It can be an energy drain as I learn to manage the full potential of it all.
To be honest, I have found it to be draining to focus on the details that do not bring peace, progress and joy in the moments…I have had to pull back from the forums as it saddens me to see many trapped in a pattern of fruitless repetition of depressed thoughts, conversations and patterns of behaviors.
I mean no disrespect in this thought, but I am having the experience of 2 friends now,
Both with a wayward spouse…
I shared MWD and DBing with each of them…
Both read it…
One put it into immediate action.
The other drags feet.
Without all the gory details, I can honestly tell you, that the one actively engaging in DBing, is in a much better place…with self.
Both MR appear headed to an end.
One in a messy fashion.
One in a cordial manner.
DBing works if one puts it into practice with the details as they learn in their heads, But more importantly as they put it into practice with belief in their hearts.
Seek out James Allen’s explanation of Head belief versus Heart belief.
Very sound principle.
On that note, I will provide some updates on my journey…
I have in the works some writings of my journey…in a different format than that of spelling out details that really are of little noteworthiness and benefit to anyone that reads them…
But until it is written, as I would like to see it, here is where I am in my journey.
I have fallen into routine, and am not proud of this…it is a useless waste of time, and I know this as no one really knows what time we have left. Urgency is a thought that pushes against me…whispers to me to get moving and stop simply existing.
Why should I lose time that can never be gained moping around feeling sorry for myself…there is no benefit.
The Stockdale paradox is the principle that comes to mind often.
I push on.
I may be experiencing a mid life crisis of sorts as I engage in activities…big over the top activities…why do I do this?
Perhaps it is to dig into my core and see if I can actually feel…feel something deep…feel alive…feel free…feel free from fear.
My IC early in this process told me that maybe I should take meds to help with the depression. He had tried to avoid meds as he said they can dull the potential to feel happy…but as I appeared to sink further into the darkness, he advised to take them. He said, perhaps I had never really felt the high points of happiness and so the meds would not hinder, but they could keep me from the depths…
The meds may have helped calm the storm for me…at least I felt as if I was on solid ground instead of the sinking sensation of the months of hell I was in.
I have since weaned myself off of the meds…there were some early side effects of odd physical sensations and emotional agitation, but as they have cleared my system, I have felt more upbeat, less agitated…and in search of a high feeling of happiness and thrill…
Let me share that I am becoming a true believer in that happiness comes from with in and is a choice…I am learning the art of this now as we speak.
But the rush of feeling alive is that which I hunt…and may have found with my recent activity.
Those that have been with me know I have struck out and tried a number of thrill seeking activities over this past year…
Today is my 20th anniversary…a bittersweet day it has been. I inadvertently, or possibly subconsciously scheduled several things this past weekend to stay busy so as not to focus on the date.
A wise friend has told me several times, “A date is only a day that we put expectations on…it will be as good or as bad as I allow it.”
I was choosing to allow it be a great day!
I chose an activity that I have wanted to do since I was young…voices in my life and in my wife told me it was dangerous and encouraged against it…I believed the hype and shied away in fear…
I jumped from an airplane Saturday morning.
There was never a moment of fear nor anxiety leading up to doing this from the moment I committed and set out to it.
I learned a lesson that has moved from Head Belief to Heart belief…
Fear is not real…
Preparation for the jump was step by step.
No thoughts of anything except the next step in the process.
Put your foot on the edge…
Grab the harness…
Tilt your head back…
Slide your foot over the edge…
Jump…
For a second, my body screams in sheer terror…What have you done? It shudders as I fall…The body has never let out such a desperate sensation in all of my life…
Then in the next second my mind focuses on the next step…
Tilt your head forward…
Bend your legs backwards…
Let go of the harness and spread your arms out like wings…
My mind then says to my body…
“Be still…be calm…You are flying…and it is the most freeing thing you can do right now. Embrace the moment!”
The body then reverses the terror signals that is sent through and replaces it with a physical high that I cannot explain.
This was the conscious understanding of the separation of emotions and feelings…My head belief transformed to that of Heart belief.
Fear is not real!
Happiness is a choice!
Anger is a reaction to fear, yet if harnessed much good can be had.
Sadness is okay!
Shedding of tears can benefit.
Moping and whining is a reaction to sadness, and has little value.
Action is imperative to all that we want and desire to achieve.
The emotions come of the bodies intent to protect…
Actions are from conscious thought…or poor habits…we choose.
What we choose can benefit…or be of detriment.
Today, I awoke same as any day, except I did not go for my morning run. I stayed up late reveling in the fun and joy of the weekend I spent with my daughters.
When I awoke, I was a bit agitated…I observed this, and focused to not be snappy with my sweet angels.
As I drove D6 to her mothers for drop off, sadness rolled in…I fought it at first… poor emotional habit…I then acknowledged it…it rolled more…I spoke with D6 to distract myself…still flowing in.
I feel angry…I will not let sadness rule my day as all that I did was to choose that this day is good.
I drop of D6…the scowl on STBX face is…is…is the same as every other day.
I drive off…reach out to my brother and friend to see how they are doing…I arrive at work and engage in my daily routine…
The sadness passes and here I sit and journal…
I feel lonely.
I feel sad.
My heart breaks to see the behavior of WAW continue down its path…and spills onto my daughters.
I have moments of red anger…
But…
I pause…
I choose…
I engage with friends that share compassion and the straight honest truth…
I take action…
I push forward as life has so much to offer and I choose to seek out that which I may find peace, growth and TRUE love.
Good night my tribe and dear friends.
You have provided much for me in this journey.
I pray that I have been able to share something in return to others in this.
Remember…
You only lose that which you cling to.
I'm still following you, friend. I can tell that you are facing challenges every day and choosing to be positive. And I can tell it's not always easy. I think one day you will wake up and it will be easy for you. I appreciate you are very proactive about trying to be positive and applying what you've read to your life. Thanks also for always supporting me.
I'm still following you, friend. I can tell that you are facing challenges every day and choosing to be positive. And I can tell it's not always easy. I think one day you will wake up and it will be easy for you. I appreciate you are very proactive about trying to be positive and applying what you've read to your life. Thanks also for always supporting me.
Thank you my friend.
I do not pray that it will be easy...I pray for the strength to push through it.
A very important lesson that I have learned in this, is that through resistance, struggle and challenge...there is growth, wisdom and beauty.
I have asked myself much of late, "Where did the belief that if I do certain things, life would be easy and perfect...history shows this to be a false belief...all great things that are good came from struggle and a place of pain...then why should I not endure the same flames in order to be that which I can become.
I thank you for your sentiments qt...they come from a good place in your heart, i do know...
For now, my prayer and goal is to continue to grow in strength and courage...
I have people depending on me...
People that believe in me...
People that love me...
I shall not let them down...
I shall not let myself down.
(((SH)))
I wish I have more to offer you in terms of comfort.
(((SH)))
I wish I have more to offer you in terms of comfort.
My dear jksd, thank you.
Please do not feel that comfort is needed for me.
I am embracing it and i will grow and be strengthened by it all.
I would prefer the friendly and fun banter of the days not so far in the past for us...
The pole dancing and visions of Tarzan and Jane...
The stuff of smiles and joy...
You are a wonderful lady and I will be eternally grateful that our paths have merged in this life...no matter the circumtances...
Your friendship means much to me.
Now that we're on the topic of pole-dancing, I will like you to know that your recent skydiving experience has motivated me to lose my fear of inverted poses on the pole.
Because, what is pole dancing compared to skydiving?
So now, I have finally mastered my handstand. Just today.
Happy anniversary.
Keep digging. You will find your answers.
Best wishes
And here I thought I was a dare devil taking a ride ona motorcycle. Here SH is skydiving and Dory is pole dnacing upside down, I am such a nerd, lol!
SH, I am going to put in my two cents. I think you may becoming a bit too cerebral, meditating to the point of naval gazing. I have trouble following your thoughts as they tend to become very poetic and somewhat esoteric. You may need more time outside your head, so you can live in the now, mindfulness, ya know?
In psychology we call this defense mechanism intellectualizing, dissecting the problem until all affect is removed and you feel in control of the problem. It's a mature defense mechanism but still a defense. While I am a big fan of researching and reading I do find sometimes you have to blaze your own trail, use what works and throw out the rest. After all, these are other's ideas and thoughts and not necessarily a hard science. Again, no offense meant, I just want to "hear" your voice again and I feel like you are drifting away.
I see you popping up on others threads, but not here. How are you doing? What are you doing?
Best wishes
I see you popping up on others threads, but not here. How are you doing? What are you doing?
Best wishes
Hello roist...great to hear from you.
I am doing well.
Just taking things a day at a time with a stumble here and there.
I am daily working on the things that one should do to live life...enjoy life... and learn in life.
My popping in is not so well received of late as perhaps I am a different leg of my journey than those I want to share with.
I have found support in other corners that teach me, support me and lend me strength when I stumble.
How are you doing my friend?
How are you progressing?
SH, I hope you don't think everyone believes you're over-intellectualizing or too cerebral. You're doing great and hope to hear more about your journey and growth.
SH
Let me tell you this, there is no such thing as too cerebral. If there was poor old V brain cell would have been kicked out long ago.
Analysis and reality help much more than you know, delivered with a good heart and kindness much more so.
Your sitch is a tough one, as your W decompensates and rages, I tell you kindly how you handle this with dignity and fortitude is impressive. Such a journey to self is bound to be long and arduous. Others along the road some ahead and some behind relate in different ways. How you are growing and what you do is like a lighthouse for others and they yearn to know.
In posting to others you also do yourself a favour, you build your knowledge and consolidate your thoughts, there us pay it forward and get it back.
Just saying....
V
Thank you 100383 and Vanilla...
I know in my heart that I am who I am and "cerebral" is my curse...or as i like to think of it a blessing...a blessing that I am continuing trying to learn how to use for good and benefit.
Sara my dear Sara...perhaps you are projecting a bit in your perception...
You contine to ask me to speak in a "my voice"...my dear friend, I am doing so...Perhaps there is something that you would like for me to share that can benefit...please feel free to let me know what that is and I am here for you.
Thank you for the continued support from all of you.
Yesterday was...it was...a deeper darker place than I thought possible.
I believed that I had prepared myself for the day...the fight of what I knew would be a challenge for me.
I have believed that I had experienced the lowest sense of loneliness and sadness already...
Watching my daughters drive away early Christmas morning demonstrated to me that there is sill more pain to experience...more pain to endure...
But...
I am still here today...
I am still pushing forward...
I am still learning lessons that will make me stronger...
This song really hit home with me as I heard it this morning.
All my life
Been running from a pain in me
A feeling I don't understand
Holding me down
So rain on me
Underwater
All I am, getting harder
A heavy weight
I carry around
Today
I don't have to fall apart
I don't have to be afraid
I don't have to let the damage
Consume me,
My shadow see through me
'Cause fear in itself
Will reel you in and spit you out
Over and over again
Believe in yourself
And you will walk
Now, fear in itself
Will use you up and break you down
Like you were never enough
Yeah, I used to fall, now I get back up.
I'm up here
I'm looking at the way down there
I'm staring through the I don't care
It's staring back at me
The beauty is
I'm learning how to face my beast
Starting now to find some peace
Set myself free, yeah
Today
I don't have to fall apart
I don't have to be afraid
I don't have to let the damage consume me
My shadow see through me
'Cause fear in itself
Will reel you in and spit you out
Over and over again
Believe in yourself
And you will walk
And now, fear in itself
Will use you up and break you down
Like you were never enough
I used to fall but now I get back up
I'm moving on
Oh God just move on
Today
I don't have to fall apart
I don't have to be afraid
Get back up
Get up
Feel it, fear, wow
And now fear, fear in itself can use you up
And then breaks you down
You're never enough
And I used to fall
Breathe
Ask for more
If you're bitter still
Ask him to help you carry on
Thank you to those few guardian angels and dear friends that checked in with me yesterday as I hid from the world to numb the pain.
Your kindness and compasion helped me endure the challenge and the pain.
You know who you are...you teach me lessons that I am comprehending and will apply. You provide me with strength and wisdom to get up and continue the fight.
I have spoken and shared much on the topic of Fear in my time here...
Fear is a formidable foe...but in my belief it is one that we are meant to conquer in this life...one that we are meant to push through so that we can unleash our potential in this universe...one that is throwing many blows into my face and heart as I try and shake it off and stand back up.
I am bruised...
I am cut...
I am exhausted...
I have tears on my cheek...
I have a hole in my heart...
I still choose to not be bitter
I choose to ask him for strength to carry on.
But I am still here...
I am still standing...
For those that read this...keep pushing on.
Do not let fear...that is all it is...hold you back.
May you experience peace and joy this holiday season.
Thanks for posting. Sorry for your pain. Most of us are probably feeling a lot right now...
Whoa SH, I wish I could take some pain away for you. Instead I will make dua (prayer) that a serenity settles over your heart and and joy to seep into your soul. You are the representative of grace and dignity, your daughters are truly blessed to have them as your father.
SH,
I was in a scramble trying to find your most recent posts yesterday (Christmas) and I failed to do so. Seriously, I looked, just didn't find it. You are not on a different leg of your journey than those you want to share with, you are on your own journey. Having been out of here for almost a month, I'm not familiar with what you reference above, but I know this...you fight hard my friend. And in part of that fight, you still look after others. Not all of those helped by the Wolverine agreed with his methods, but at the end of the day, they still got helped.
You had your kids on the eve and the day. I go my son at 10am on the day. The eve was my first one not with my "family" and while it was not without slight disappointment, it was truly fine, because I had me. I really mean that, I had me, and I was cool with that; happy in the fact that I am comfortable being alone and being with just me. That said, I would have loved to have had my son, but the time I did have with him, well we owned it.
My fear was: control, anger, and not knowing how to know what I want. My fear was my coping mechanisms for those things vacating. Fear is a general term my friend, and in this we should be specific. You are a comic nerd, so I'm safe with this quote... "If it bleeds we can kill it." Swartzeneggar in Predator. Point being, once identified how to remove it, you can make a strategy. What is the name of your fear?, because you are correct, we were meant to conquer or we were meant to cower - there are only two choices.
“If you loved someone, you loved him, and when you had nothing else to give, you still gave him love.” George Orwell, 1984. One of my favorite books. If you have read it, you might recall the lovers were tortured to the point by their worst fears where they turned each other in. Their fears were identified, and they were used against them Best as I can tell from my readings, you ain't turned in sht, bub. You are the real deal. [snikt!].
Laughing to myself as you laugh now, you knew what snikt! meant, freakin' nerd dude. Ha. Keep up your effort. I stand beside you.
Sparrow hawk, I am so sorry for your anguish.
The holidays were hell for me too.
You dont have to feel sorry for any emotions that you feel. You are entitled to your feelings. It will be quite humanely impossible not to feel what you're feeling unless you're some coldblooded creature.
Now what is that they say in merchant of venice? 'If you prick us, do we not bleed?' I knew my Shakespeare will come in useful one day but I always thought the dude could have written in less convoluted language.
This is your journey, SH. The only way out is through. Your journey will definitely look different from mine (but that's really because you won't take up poledancing and I don't have the guts to skydive) but we will arrive at where we are supposed to be, if we keep on keeping on.
Lots of love, dear friend.
You know where to put out the katniss/dory call if you need me.
Sh-
Per your question in my thread, what are your goals and maybe more importantly, what are your plans?
SH,
I have been away from this forum but you have not been away from my thoughts.
I know that in this small blue globe a lot of men and women are fighting to become better persons and maybe in the process saving their marriages.
One of them is you. You helped me with your advise and your words and because of that our paths have crossed each other. Who I am today is now partly because of you.
So you will always be with me.
And I hope that those close to your heart who need you will always have you.
I wish you and your family all the happiness in the world. It will come eventually.
I have learnt that I cannot provide my kids with a complete family and cannot protect them from the pain their parents' separation causes them.
But I can fill them with my unconditional love.
And this I have promised myself.
I now start to realize that what's in the way is the way.
Obrigado por tudo.
Best wishes for the new year. Glad you have the support you need during hard times.
It was just over 2 years ago this past Friday that the BD began for me and my family.
I was preparing to take d7 (d5 at the time) to her very first Daddy Daughter dance at her school. I had left work a few minutes early and had arrived home in preparation for the evening. Former W had arrived afterwards with my daughters and was in an agitated state mumbling about one thing and another. I had noticed this agitated state for the past several weeks and asked on a couple of occasions what was on her mind and what may be bothering her. If she provided a response, it was to blow me off and say it was nothing.
On this particular evening I ignored it in preparation to have a good evening with my girls...
Then out of nowhere the fireworks began...the first explosion came as she began yelling at me that I was late and I had better hurry up.
I responded that I was running ahead of schedule and that we would be early without an issue...it turned out I was indeed off schedule a bit as I had planned for a time 30 minutes past the start time. I apologized and stated that I could be ready and on time, still...the fireworks of verbal darts then commenced in her berating me and telling me how lazy I was, and how I never cared about anything and so forth.
I remained silent as was my emotional defense system for so many years when under assault in this manner...10 or 15 minutes of the verbal assault went on when the lock that held back the voice of my mental defense and words snapped...
I yelled, "Quit treating me like I am a child!"
This halted the verbal tirade she was shooting a me...it was also, essentially, the beginning of an end.
There are still many here in the neighborhood that were there for me in the months that followed and are familiar with my story.
There are so many new neighbors that have moved into this neighborhood since the last time I walked these streets.
For those new here, if you have experienced the tragedy of the WAW or WAS, perhaps you may find clues, solace, or maybe even sound advice in the threads that were left and created around me that were my story in early 2016, until I struck out on my own and left the halls of this sanctuary forum.
Far too many good folks find themselves here on the short end of a BD.
Many find comfort, support and guidance in these streets... and for these reasons I return to share and shed some light on what I gathered while here. As well as what I have continued to learn and been able to share forward in other neighborhoods for those experiencing the tragedy of abandonment. The pain of the BD has a far more reaching radius than I would have ever believed prior to my own experience of it all.
And yet in my journeys I have found that the BD and deterioration of a MR can lead to great things...if work is put into play.
There is much material and many books, videos and research on the many aspects of what one goes through as it is related to what each of you may be going through now.
The starting point for each individual will vary and be different in the details. Yet so many of the principles are forever the same once you realize that your situation is not as unique as you may think.
For me, ground zero was coming to grips with what I was feeling, fearing and frankly unprepared to take on.
My search to identify what the issue was, understand it and then try and solve it was the driving factors of what I now look back on as the unraveling of my logical and common-sense self.
There was no logic to it all and that was the point of pressure and angst.
I did what most normal people would do. I sought out information and people that would and could understand what I was going through...
Then I did the next thing that any normal, common sense thinking person would do...I railed against it all, because they don't know what I am going through...my situation is unique...no one has the answers that I need...I need easy, no pain, solutions. I need to know exactly what to do to fix it all.
I pray that you sense the sarcasm in that sentiment.
Now 2 years forward, divorce final just over 7 months ago, 2 well-adjusted daughters, new friends that truly do understand, and many new days and opportunities later I am gathering all that I have learned. My lessons have come from reading, writing, counseling, mentors, trial and error experiments, working to do things differently and a lifetime of new understanding of mental and emotional health. I now offer to share some of the lessons that I have learned from and had the greatest impact for me. I still work on these lessons daily and continue to grow from them. I offer to share them with any that may need it and are willing to accept.
These are the pertiment lessons that have had the greatest impact on my healing, growing, strengthening and experiencing life in a new manner.
The first lessons that I followed in order to slow the emotional bleeding and calm the pain of it all, are the many guidelines and steps that Cadet shares in his intro post to each newcomer. It is a compilation of so much valuable information for any that find themselves here. I won't spell it out here as each of you have seen it.
Some of you are following it as best you can, and some...some tend to ignore most of it and forge forward letting "feelings" and their own logic lead them into the storm.
I highly recommend that you read, study and apply the lessons early and often. But that is just the lesson that I learned on my journey.
It was a dark time for me, but I grabbed a hold of each topic and reviewed it with solid intent.
I believed I understood it and would try as I might to put everything into action as fast as I could...
But my energy levels were very depleted and my emotional state was fragile.
Shock.
Emotional shock that shook biological cornerstones of my well-being to the foundation. Sleep eluded me. Food was rarely consumed...I held onto one practice that had started a year or 2 prior.
I woke up each morning and went running.
Many a morning my vision was clouded with tears and despair...but I rose early and ran, each and every day.
It saved my life.
I cannot imagine what the damage that may have taken place without this. I suffered from high levels of anxiety and my therapist and doctor were concerned as the chemical levels had potential to create physical damages to me.
You see, the chemical balance of the human body is a delicate one and the chemical adjustments that one experiences when hit with the anxiety and depression that this incident doles out, can be very damaging to the organs of the body. It is of upmost importance to do whatever it takes to balance it all out.
Clear thinking and balanced emotions depend on it.
The first and most important lesson that I learned in my journey was that of personal physical care.
That in turn provided me the space to wade into the depths of the emotional and psychological seas to discover the healing I sought, the strength that I desired and the wisdom needed to embark on the new path that was before me.
That story will be for another time.
See part 2
Today I share the lessons that had the biggest impact for me and my family now 2 years removed from the explosion of the BD.
Here are the key lessons that I use often, continue to learn from and share with others when I am sought out for thoughts and ideas for success in their own journey.
You must feed the actions to raise and maintain your physical health.
1. Take care of your health above all else.
Eat healthy
Movement and exercise
Sleep
2. The Stockdale paradox
Look this up. Read it. The lesson, you must engage in a meaningful activity no matter that you have no idea if and when the ordeal of it all has an end date.
Your future self will thank you.
3. Meditation
This is where I began to learn to separate the "monkey chatter" in my mind from the voice of reason and logic. To separate the physical sensations the brain triggers in the body when one is in danger versus perceived dangers that were not real. This is a daily practice and ritual for myself and my daughters.
Read...study...find anything and everything that you can for your situation.
For me it was the discovery of MWD explanation of the WAW that helped me focus on a direction to move forward. This was the beginning of seeking out material on many other topics such as
Detachment
Being a Man
Habits
Raising of happy and healthy children
Faith and belief
There are many more, but these are the ones that I read, research and practice still.
4. Fears
Identify them
Face them
The only way is through them.
I studied this in depth.
This was the source of so much lost time, energy and poor habits for me during this time...and in life up to this time. I continue to research this and seek mentors and guidance to face this.
5. Abandonment
This is a very real emotional challenge and applies to more situations than you may know. Seek out the knowledge in this and you will identify that what you are experiencing emotionally is not unique and has stages that you can work through with awareness and understanding.
6. Detachment
This was a topic that I discussed with many in my thread and in others threads in my time here. it is a key element to moving on. I believe it is a topic that can be difficult to comprehend and often it seems to be misunderstood. I saw that often it is a term used in statements that indicate a simple passing of time and or hardening one's heart.
I choose to believe that it is a choice and when followed by intentional actions of love and compassion that one can find great and healthy benefit in it, not only in the current situation, but in all of one's relationships in life.
7. Boundaries
There is ample information and guidance for creating and maintaining healthy boundaries for oneself. Seek out this knowledge and work at this. I currently coach several people on this topic as they observed and noticed a change in me and my daughters as I learned and taught them this very important skill. This skill helped me maintain sanity in my situation. I also believe that it has helped me forge healthier interactions with my former W and others in my life.
8.Happiness
It is a feeling that stems from action and choice. The ongoing realization that for so much of my life I believed that feelings were simple sensations...I now choose to believe that we have the power to choose. There are only a handful of actual physical sensations that the human body feels...yet there are over 100 words in the English language to describe these sensations. Over 70% of the words have negative connotations. Happiness can be a choice and there are actions one can take to experience a state of happiness.
9. Love
Another feeling that I believe to be a verb. I thought I did not know what love was. That I was not capable of such a feeling. I have learned that not only am I capable of it, but that I feel it genuinely for many in my life. The beauty of this choice is that there are no strings attached. I choose love without expectations and in doing so I have found that I love more deeply for those that are important in my life.
10. Forgiveness
This takes work, action and a continued conversation in the heart, mind and soul. I can truly say that I am continuing the acts of forgiveness for my former W. We are cordial these days. 🙂. I can truly say that I forgive her.
11. Re-discover yourself
Go find activities that you once liked. Try new ones. Mingle with people that engage in these activities.
Cadet states in well. You have been given the gift of time. Go use it.
12. Gather a team
You will need a team for support and growth. If you were hurt in an accident you would gather doctors, nurses, surgeons, physical therapists, family and friends to help nurse you back to health.
This is no different. Gather the appropriate team of counselors, therapists, doctors, mentors, lawyers, family and friends.
Be cautious as you gather this team. Ensure they mirror and match your values, understand your goals and can provide you the encouragements, advice and support that benefits you.
13. There are no shortcuts
Many that I know have gone through the BD and attempted to take shortcuts.
Substances, new romantic relationships, getting lost in work or other activities that isolate one self.
This will only slow the progress if not lead to destruction of sorts.
I know there are those that will say there are exceptions...and there may be...but I chose not to take that chance. I also know some that have and the piper demanded payment eventually.
I would always encourage that you focus on you, the work that will be necessary for your healing and returning to strength. And if you choose to be an even better version of your former self. There is one rule that you will have to abide by.
That rule is you are going to have to put in the work!
These are key lessons that I attribute getting to where I am at so far. There are many more lessons. These are the foundations that I have built my journey on and come back to when things feel of kilter.
I still have a long way to go. I have to perfected my knowledge, skills and abilities in all of this as of yet, but I regroup often and reestablish new goals and routines as I make myself aware that I am in need of continued healing and growth.
I want those that feel there is no light at the end of the tunnel too know, that the light is there. If you choose to walk forward.
Steer clear of anywhere or anyone that tells you of all the grim things that you will now have to face because of your situation. This creates more fear and doubt and oft times the overwhelming feelings of despair. You will be fine. your children can be fine if you work towards it. you have more power in all of this than you may believe. You can't control everything that happens, but you do control you...your children will see this. Be the rock and lighthouse for them.
In my journey, I am experiencing happiness and fulfillment from all that I live. My daughters are in the most wonderful of places with my oldest, D19, starting her own business and doing things that seemed impossible just a few short years ago. D7 is excelling in school and has grown socially in amazing ways. They are happy. I am happy. We see glimpses of their mother in a better place.
I continue to choose forgiveness and love for my former W. Those of you that know my story, will be glad to hear that the crazy and angry have subsided and we now have cordial and peaceful interactions and conversations. Dare I say they are interactions of kindness even.
It was 2 years ago that a dance for a daughter and her father was the starting point of a nightmare...and this past Friday I took my D7 and D19 to a similar dance. This time it was my former W that reached out and inquired if I would like to take d7 on her parenting night to the dance. As she works at d7's school she assisted me in coordinating the evening and helped me in making it a memorable night for me and my daughters. A new memory has now been placed over the time and date of a bad memory.
If that is not a light at the end of a very dark tunnel, then I don't know what is.
My family and I are very blessed and the experience and journey of the past 2 years has been a challenging one. But the lessons and the growth from it all have blessed my family tremendously.
I share my gratitude with so many of you that were in these forums and I thank you for being there in the moments of darkest despair...the moments that I felt there was nowhere to turn. It was the compassion. The understanding. The kindness of strangers that cheered me to stand up from the canvas one more time. As many times as it took, too be able to stand on my own.
You each will forever be etched into my story of triumph... and my heart. Some were weathering their own storms. Some sharing their own stories of success. Others, simply sharing a kind word. You each are the fans and supporters that my family will know as the inspiration for me to push on and experience the calm and joy that I have today.
May god bless each of you
And in the fashion that many of you know me for, I leave a favorite quote of mine from the Hero that I relate to...
"You're not doin' anyone any good by chewin' on the past, kid. What's done is done. Now let's just concentrate on setting things right." ~James Howlett aka Wolverine
SH, thanks for sharing the lessons that you've learned on your journey.
I'd never heard of the Stockdale paradox, but it's an interesting concept that I hope to apply to my own sitch.
(((SH)))
Well hello, old friend. So wonderful to see you here and to read your words. We came here around the same time. You offered so much then and I am sure you have as much, or more, to offer now. Will you stay?
I am glad that you and your Ds are doing well. You are a devoted father. It is wonderful to read that you are in a much better place overall now. Your advise and experience is invaluable.
It can be hard to keep coming back, day after day. You give so much of yourself. You would write me pages and pages. Not just for me, but to many here. (I wonder how Phoebe is doing). I learned so much from you. And your style is eloquent and unique, and you are of overflowing with wisdom.
I think in some ways we are alike in that we approach certain things as all or nothing. I tend to immerse myself in things and then am easily overwhelmed or find myself spending too much time here and not enough time there, or vice versa. Passionate people tend to do this, it's not a bad thing. But we can never have enough balance in life, can we?
I do not read/post much often either. I am going to try and aim for more balance though. I don't need so spend hours, but maybe just a few more minutes here and there. I think it helps the newcomers to hear from us old timers :-) We will all survive THIS journey eventually.
Blu
Holding, I am pleased to hear you found the paradox of value. I have dropped by your pad and shared more.
Blu...my dear friend, Blu.
I am delighted to see that you are one of the first to greet me as I return to the neighborhood. I have thought of you often and had you in my heart and prayers. You were a connection here that opened up many delightful and deep conversations that I have thought on frequently and continued to learn and evolve with.
I have only caught up on your most recent happenings and am pleased to see you standing tall and proud so quickly after falling to the canvas.
I am truly pleased to hear you are doing well and have turned a corner of such and are charging into the heart of it all to come out the champion that you are.
I took leave of of this place to seek out new frontiers for healing and growth. I admit that I did not intend to walk from here so soon, but as I wandered just out of earshot, I realized I was out further than I had realized...I began to turn back, but curiosity caught me and I ventured further into new places to seek out wisdom, answers and...to see if I could stand up on my own.
Yes, my approach is all in. It can drain the battery and deplete the energy quickly. But I push on.
Today I stand stronger and more confident. I have discovered new lands and people that raise me up...and provide me the opportunity to do the same for them...because I have the tendency to go all in, I am cautious to balance out what I can hold up and what may bring me to my knees. I am finding new strengths and talents that had remained hidden to me.
New chapters have been written in my story.
There is change and shift in me...and all around me.
I see life with a new curiosity...I enjoy the moment...I am more aware than I ever have been.
I am more willing to sit alone with my fears...to look at them with curiosity...to make friends with them.
There are many of them, so it may take some time to acquaint with each of them, but I take time to do so...
I am a proud father of two of the most amazing young ladies that are accomplishing things I never believed possible just a couple of short years ago. This gives me new energy each day! I dare say, that the blessings and silver lining of the what has happened has opened my eyes to possibilities that I never would have known or believed possible.
I don't know what the future holds for me...and frankly that is not a concern in this moment...I have today to focus on.
The past is no longer a demon that haunts me...it tries too...but I know that my past is not as clearly remembered as the BS stories that the mind oft tries to tell me.
Not living in the past...and looking into the future with hope...can really change the perspective of all that is around one self.
I am truly grateful for the woman that is my former W. She partnered with me to bring into this world two angels that have taught me the value of living each day fully, and charging into the unknown with faith that all will be well, and as we put in the work to accomplish what we go after...win lose or draw, we triumph.
Blu, you ask if I will stay...I desire to share forward the compassion and wisdom that so many shared with me. These halls were a God send for me in the darkest moments of my life. I owe it to those that stood beside me and helped lift me up. And I make every effort to do so...I will will be around.
How often? We shall see. I tend to wander and now life beckons that I continue to venture and explore. But I will not forget the places that helped me cement foundations to stand up on.
My prayers to everyone going through a hell that I know to well.
Chin up
Nurture the light within
It can be better
Your choice.
Incredible post SH. Thanks for sharing. I find it to be quite uplifting. I think your key lessons are spot on. I don’t come around often but always like seeing updates from people who have not been around a while. I do recall following along with you in the early days. I am glad to see you are doing well. Take care
What up punk ??
Good to see you kickin up some dust on this old thread...
: )