Hi all,
I been lurking on here for the past week as I have tried to comprehend the weight of my situation. My wife of 15 years, literally out of nowhere, tells me that she doesn't love me and she wants a divorce. Well, she doesn't really tell me. She was acting aloof and distance for a couple of days. When I ask her what's going on she tells me she's not happy. After that, I basically have to pull the info out her. She says that there isn't anyone else and that she's not happy with the way I treat our 12 year old daughter. I admit, I'm a pest and a nag with my daughter and that I sometimes take my frustrations out on my wife and daughter, but it's never anything abusive in anyway. She tells me she's made up her mind and she doesn't want to work on this at all. No counseling or anything. Frankly she seems like she wants to avoid the discussion entirely.
I go and speak with a therapist I've seen and the past and she suggested I tell her exactly how I feel: I love you and I want to work on our marriage for our sake and the sake of our daughter. She says she'll think about it but she's resigned to the fact that the marriage is over in her mind.
The next night she says she's going to meet a girlfriend from work. When's she not at home by 1:30 (very unusual), I text to see if she alright. No answer. I text her again. No answer. Her car has a app that show where the car is parked. I look and she's nowhere near where she said she was going to be. I look up the address and she's at a male co-workers house. Someone she just started working with but someone she knows for a long time thru friends. When she get's home, I ask her where she was. She sticks to her original story until I show her where she really was. Eventually she fesses up and says she was with this guy that she works with and that they were just talking about our situation. She swears on our daughters life that nothing is happening with this guy. We discuss that neither of us can afford this divorce and that we'll cool it for awhile.
The next day I start to detach and implement Michele's 37 rules. Keeping up a brave face, being cordial and limiting the amount of time I spend around her. Working on myself and seeing if I can better myself in the mean time. It's so, so hard. I truly and deeply love her but right now she seems like she's encased herself in a concrete shell and nothing can get in. She's resigned herself to this and there's no talking about it. I'm utterly heartbroken for us. Our family will be ripped apart. We'll have to sell our home and move intro separate apartments, most likely out of our current school district where our daughter is thriving. We'll lose everything we put into the house because we bought at the height of the housing bubble and the market never came back. If we break even, we'll be lucky.
I like most people have issues I need to deal with. She does too. There have been times when we've both had to carry each other thru the marriage because the other just couldn't. We're both adverse to conflict which is really bad. Things never get discussed and they're left to fester. I'm willing to do the serious work that i need to do in order to be a better person and father. I'd do anything to keep our family together. It's just so hard to feel hopeful when only one person in a marriage feels that way.
Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Consider this your homework.
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Cadet,
I've been following Sandi's rules almost from the beginning. I've been detached the last few days. I have a question for you: couldn't detachment be seen as apathy or indifference by my spouse? In a way, almost agreeing with her that this marriage isn't worth fighting for?
Thank you so much.
She tells me she's made up her mind and she doesn't want to work on this at all.
And you believe her?
Don't believe anything she says.
As far as detaching,
she is depressed and you can not fix that.
You can give her space to fix herself.
She either will or she won't
but the best thing is to stay out of her way
so she has the opportunity.
The male co-worker being just a friend -- total B.S. But now that you know, do yourself a favor: stop spying on her. Spying is a deal with the devil. You gain some info but your pay for it with your soul -- you will be tortured.
Well, the whole situation is a torture -- we're all going through it. But I hope you find courage to rise above.
Please put a summary of your situation in your signature. Click on "My Stuff" -> "Edit Profile." See other people's signatures for examples. There are so many similar stories here, it helps us remember who you are.
I deleted the app. It's just too tempting to look where she is and too heartbreaking to know she's lying.
Sorry you are here. But you will gain great support here. Glad you have deleted the app now. I think most of us here are guilty of snooping at one point or another. Before my h changed his passwords I saw flirty messages between him and a colleague. She was telling him to leave me, and he was talking about dating her. This information didn't really help me at all, yes it confirmed an a, but those messages are burned into my brain.
It sounds like you are off to a good start with implementing the rules. Have you read DR yet? That will help for you to read and see what you need to be doing and give you ideas on goal setting for you. What are you going to do to be the best man and best father?
It is tough, it's a long ride. But I guarantee it will help you get stronger, and people here have saved their m.
I would swerve r talks at all costs, you know her thoughts, and she knows yours. As hard as it is, take your focus off her and get focussing on you. What are/where your hobbies? What things can you work on for yourself? Is there anything she has pointed out that you did or didn't do in the m where you feel you could have contributed to the breakdown? Read up on cadets thread on validation too, my h used to complain that I didn't listen to him, so validation was a good start for a 180 for me- I practice this in day to day convos with people now.
She will lie, she will absolutely be all over the board, which is why we must stay steady and consistent. One day she may be cheery towards you- the next she's avoiding you. It's all part of the script, leave her be and offer glimpses of a happy man. The type she would be a fool to walk away from. Keep focussed on your d, she's at an age where she will pick up on things, so protect her the best way you can. I don't know if you do already, but maybe get into a habit of spending time with her, the movies or something. There's some very inspirational men on here who may swing by and help. My good friend surfer is truly shining in this respect, he's taking good care of himself but also being an absolutely fantastic dad with days out and movie nights and so on.
Have a little look around other people's threads, you will see a lot of patterns amongst wayward spouses.
Again, I'm sorry you find yourself here, but it's a wonderful place with a lot of space, and a safe place for us to journal our feelings and vent. You sound like you've already made a great start with things. This will be a tough journey, but stick at it and keep posting
Cadet,
I've been following Sandi's rules almost from the beginning. I've been detached the last few days. I have a question for you: couldn't detachment be seen as apathy or indifference by my spouse? In a way, almost agreeing with her that this marriage isn't worth fighting for?
Thank you so much.
msp,
I wanted to stop by as I notice many similarities in our stories...
The question you ask here is a normal one that we all seemed to ask early on.
cadet is right in the advice provided for you. cadet is basically right in anything that he shares here...
I have learned from my journey that my WAW did not want anything from me, regardless of what she would say...
From day to day her claims of what I did or did not do would change...
Nothing you do, will basically be agreeing the same that she is saying.
You know what you are fighting for and that is all that matters at this leg of the journey.
But I did make changes...
Changes based on the principles of DB...
I read and studied DR.
I worked with a coach.
I worked with an IC.
I sought help here.
I made changes in my actions and behaviors.
And with every change that I implemented, she became more angry...
I would fall back when I saw the anger.
She would get even more angry....
My point is, you must give her space to walk her journey...
The time you have is your gift.
Working on you, is the best way you fight for the MR.
Very counterintuitive....right?
That became my gauge...if I started to act or react in what felt natural...I would pause...recall what I was learning from the DB principles ...and the proceed.
The answer to many of your questions will become clear as you walk your path...
I encourage you to step outside of your thread and read and meet others here...
You will gather a tribe of support that way...but most importantly, IMHO, you will start to see the patterns that will make the answers to your questions more clear in a more timely manner.
There is much work to do, and as you do it you will gain more strength than you might know at this time.
I like most people have issues I need to deal with. She does too. There have been times when we've both had to carry each other thru the marriage because the other just couldn't. We're both adverse to conflict which is really bad. Things never get discussed and they're left to fester. I'm willing to do the serious work that i need to do in order to be a better person and father. I'd do anything to keep our family together. It's just so hard to feel hopeful when only one person in a marriage feels that way.
Now this I understand completely and I am sure if I were to go back to the beginning of my story here, I wrote and expressed this exact sentiment...
The best advice to me was, live in the moment, be the best dad you can possibly be, (and then just a little bit more) focus on ensuring the your D has all of the stability and love that you can provide no matter what...Leave your W be...Her circus, her monkeys.
I will leave it at that for now as many are starting to swing by and you will be in good hands.
Please reach out to me if I can be of support or share that which you may benefit from...
My prayers are with you and your family as I know the pain and confusion that is, but I know that there is another side to it and you will come through it.
“Relationships are such that if one person changes, the relationship changes.” Michele Weiner-Davis
MSP
The situation no matter what stinks. Whether its financial, your wife, your daugther, the idea of not being together as a family
But....glad you found the site early on. I was not so fortunate.
I also buried my head in the sand in terms of her denial of another man..which...many times is the situation underneath it all where the WAW or WAH has found a new toy and its time to blame the husband/wife for everything wrong in the universe. That is coming...trust me. I hope that is not your situation but the truth hurts and it could be...
Best you can do is read up as others have suggested and focus on your daughter. You mention not treating her well so double down and be the best damn dad you can possibly be and work on yourself.
The end result will be a change in you that will make you happier and have a better relationship with your daughter. Hopefully then the rest comes together for you in maybe rekindling the R or not.
Best...
I'm about halfway through DB right now. I've started seeing a therapist again to help me sort all my emotions out. It's so hard. Two weeks ago I thought I was happily married. Today I'm writing on a divorce message board. It's hard for me to wrap my head around.
I'm making a concerted effort not to bicker with my daughter about the nonsense that bothers me. It took this BD for me to see how petty I could be with both my wife and daughter. I'm committed to being the best dad I can be.
I'm having such a hard time today. The uncertainty that is in front of me is a form of torture. Half of me just wants the situation to be over and the other half wants to fight like hell.
Thank you to the people who took the time to respond to my post. Knowing there is good and warmth in the world makes things a little easier.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
That's good that you're going back to your therapist, that will help you and also give you a safe place to vent and let emotions out. It unfortunately often takes the bd for us to realise the changes we would like to make. None of us are perfect and it gives you some goals for what you can work towards. It may take a while for your w to accept these changes and trust that this isn't a phase, so they need to be genuine.
I'm sorry you're having a hard day, the early days are often a case of getting by hour by hour rather than day by day. Don't beat yourself up for feeling like this though, it's totally normal, this is your m, your family. You would be seriously in denial if you were feeling emotionless right now.
Set yourself some realistic goals. And do what you can to make you feel better. Some men throw themselves into the gym, some women give themselves a makeover. Just be kind to yourself and concentrate on your for a while. Your wife is all over the place right now. Stay steady and be that lighthouse. Give her glimpses of this calm amazing man.
What where you like when you met your wife? Was there some hobbies you were interested in? What qualities did she like? Look inside yourself and keep your focus on you for a little while. It really does help.
There's a lot of supportive friendly people here, we're like a little family here. Have a read of other people's posts and reach out to them, and they will reach out to you and help you. Being here really will help you to become a great person and hopefully draw your wife towards you. I'm rooting for you.
cherry,
Thanks for your advise. I'm living right now minute to minute trying not to let this situation be the end of me. I'm grateful to have a loving and large group of friends and family that are with me. I'm not sure I could do this with them.
I look at all the people who are on these boards and you realize that people cause each other so much pain. Its so very sad. We're we all so blind when we went into our marriages?
MSP710,
Been there and done it. Tracked my W - didn't go to a kids party went to another man's house. Sex or not - I still don't know - she definitely had an EA (3 months). Your W will have a long track of communicating with this guy face to face, text, FB etc. It's just a fact. You don't need to know anymore. I am so sorry this has happened. It's nothing you did - so drop all that straight away. You will see over time that H's and W's on this board have pretty much all seen this. Experienced the same - almost exactly. Why? Something clicks in the WS. They are unhappy with the M. They are having a MLC. They just feel they are resigned to the scrapheap of life etc. Nobody can fully tell you because even the WS never fully knows (read Sandi2's posts for the best insight - she puts it down to disrespect in part - so don't allow her to do that, Sandi's info helps here). Try not to work out why etc. Try to get used to "it's not you, it's her". It is. She has a circus going on - don't get involved. Her Circus, Her Monkeys.
You are for now a one parent family. Become the best Dad and the best version of you. Nothing else. Expect nothing from your W. Expect lies and manipulation. Rise above it all. Don't get sucked into any emotional rollercoaster stuff. Just keep your mouth shut, learn validation and avoid all fights. Also, don't talk to anyone about this sitch. unless you are 100% sure it can't get back to her.
Detach emotionally, start doing things and ignore what she is up to as much as you can. Get out and start living your life for you and kids, don't talk to her about the R, OM etc. Don't ask for family time. Just be a one parent family.
There is lots of advice on here and in DB & DR. Time to get reading. Try to loose the fear. That's the main thing. Exercise is very good for this. Drinking is not.
Time to focus.
We will all keep checking in on your. Try to 'journal' - just like keeping a diary. It's safe to do so here. It gets things out in the open and you will get educated and unbiased help.
It will all be okay, even if the relationship does not become a blossoming M. I promise.
You are not alone. We have all been there.
Surfer.
When people say "detach" does not mean ignore? I'm struggling with this. When we're home together I try to stay out of her way as much as possible, only asking her questions regarding her schedule as it applies to our daughter. Is it aloofness? Not saying goodnight? Goodbye?
msp
Did you read cadets homework on detachment?
I encourage that you actually print it out and study it...
i spoke with my therapist and she agreed that detachment was a good idea at this point as long as detachment behavior is what sort of led me down this path. She said to let my wife know that I was just giving her space to breathe and that I was not ignoring her for the sake of ignoring her. Does this sound like good advise?
I think it is good advice.
My W and I didn't communicate for over 2 months when she left me. When we finally started talking again I did tell her I wasn't ignoring her and I did not contact her because I knew she needed time away from me. She seemed appreciative of that, but I did it for myself as much as for her because I had to get her out of my life emotionally as much as possible (which wasn't much TBH). I also knew from DB pursuing is a big taboo to get the spouse back.
I'm making a concerted effort not to bicker with my daughter about the nonsense that bothers me. It took this BD for me to see how petty I could be with both my wife and daughter. I'm committed to being the best dad I can be.
I quoted the above because I would also bicker and complain to my W constantly about things that bothered me. I never saw the good she did for me. I only saw the negative and that was the main reason she just couldn't take it anymore. I've since learned how bad I became and I'm really working to better myself in that area. I now see my W with all the positives she has and when we talk it's such a breath of fresh air having pleasant conversations instead of the condescending remarks I used to make all the time. She hasn't brought up anything negative about me in a long time. When we first started communicating she did lots of blaming. I validated as best I could and I never put the blame back on her. Now when we talk about our married life it's pretty much all positive. I still don't know if she has changed her mind about getting a divorce. I don't bring it up as it's a step at a time process.
I never bickered with my D and if nothing else changes I would suggest you keep working on that with your D. Your D is going to be your D forever; regardless of what happens between you and your W. You do not want to lose you W and D at the same time. Be the dad you know you can be. You both will appreciate it more than you will ever know. My D is 28 now and we still talk all the time about everything under the sun (and I mean everything) and she lives half way across the country. I couldn't imagine going through life if my D resented me. I hated my stepdad. The day I moved out of the house is the day I stopped talking to him. I know he regretted how he treated me growing up but by then it was too late to mend fences. Don't be like my stepdad.
MSP
Detachment is stopping co-dependency. This is where your spouse affects how you feel emotionally - because you are dependent on their words and actions. IE You ride a rollercoaster of emotion due to their actions and words. Detachment is therefore stepping off this ride so you can be you without attachment - like you were before you met (the person she fell for). It doesn't mean not communicating but it does mean not pursuing. Let her come to you if she wants to. Stop all chasing for any form of attention it is a sign of co-dependency/being needy. It's really unattractive. It will push her further away.
Surfer.
my wife and I are very bad at communicating our issues to each each other. We usually swallow it and it ends up festering and turning into resentment. She basically told me last night that she has been feeling unloved and unwanted for awhile which has lead me to where I am today. She's absolutely resigned to the fact that we need to be divorced. There's no convincing her of anything else. So I'm back in therapy to see if I can get a handle on my issues so whether we continue this marriage or not, I can be a better person and father.
It's so hard. I broke the news to my parents today. They're gutted. It feels like a little bit of me is dying every day.
If you are in counseling for your personal issues, that's okay. If you are in counseling for your MR......you may get advice contrary to the advice here. I have found it amazing the number of H's who apparently thought every source would have the same advice, but that's not the case at all. The more sources....the varied the advice.
Can you tell us about her growing up years, and if she suffered abuse? Was there something that happened that was traumatic for her and maybe affected the rest of her life?
I believe waywardness in a wife begins with resentment, unmet expectations, and unresolved issues. She carries that around in her heart and then it leads to disrespect for her H. Over time, she begins to rebel against her H/M, if the resentment & disrespect continues to grow. When she goes against the H/M, she is showing rebellion. The WW is angry. She may (or may not) be depressed, but count of it....she is angry at her H. She blames him for her unhappiness, and just about everything else, too.
She doesn't have to be in an affair to qualify as wayward, however, the majority of the stories here do include affairs. If you have not read the threads for Help for Newcomer LBHS Who Have a WW (on Cadet's post), then take a look and see if you recognize your own wife in those threads.
Btw, swearing on her child's life....means nothing to a WW. You cannot believe what she says, and you cannot trust her. This is not the girl you married.
My wife lost her mother when she was 17 to breast cancer. It was a short, sudden illness. While her mother was in chemo, her father was carrying on an affair with a woman. Once her mother died, her father introduced this woman into her life as if her mother never existed. She's struggled with this for a long time and I believe she is around the same age her mother was when she died.
She also carries resentment over the fact that she had to go back to work when our daughter began school. I work for a small company that was hit really hard during the recession. I had to take a pay cut and the company could no longer pay for our health insurance. Her job included insurance as well as a much need decent paycheck. She's never let that go even though its given us breathing room as well as the extras for our daughter that we could never afford if we didn't have her salary. She actually brought this up when she came to me about the divorce. There's nothing I can do. We need her salary to survive. We live in a expensive part of the country where there isn't any inexpensive places to live. We just need her salary. She just can't come to terms with it.
my wife and I are very bad at communicating our issues to each each other. We usually swallow it and it ends up festering and turning into resentment. She basically told me last night that she has been feeling unloved and unwanted for awhile which has lead me to where I am today. She's absolutely resigned to the fact that we need to be divorced. There's no convincing her of anything else. So I'm back in therapy to see if I can get a handle on my issues so whether we continue this marriage or not, I can be a better person and father.
It's so hard. I broke the news to my parents today. They're gutted. It feels like a little bit of me is dying every day.
There's no convincing her right now because she's having an affair and she's in affair fog. No point in working on a marriage if there are more than 2 people in it and there are more than 2 people in yours. You really need to verify the affair. That changes your entire course of action. To solve a problem you must first analyze the problem. You can't be operating under a false assumption of what the problem is or you won't employ the correct solution. Verify the affair and we'll go from there.
Journaling:
I took my wedding ring off a couple of days ago as my wife took her off a few days ago. I did it mostly out of anger and frustration and the feeling that since my wife is behaving as if our marriage is over, I should too.
This morning I went to church thinking there was an 8am mass. I haven't been to church in ages but it has always given me a measure of comfort going so I figured why not. Apparently there isn't a Saturday morning mass so I had the church to myself. Quiet and dark. I sat and sobbed for a few minutes and then sat quietly. Something told me to go home and put my ring on and fight for this marriage even if my wife doesn't feel the same. I've given my struggle to God and I pray for his guidance. I feel like I'm in a car going at 100mph and there's no hands on the steering wheel. I need help.
I can see my wife is in some sort of haze. It's as if she's been given marching orders that only she can hear. I can only control my actions and reactions so I'll just have to hang on for dear life right now. So exhausting.
MSP
I know times are horrid right now. It's so hard to focus. The best thing to focus on is you and the kids. Because that's all that is in your control. Your W will do what ever she wants right now, she will act like a teenage girl. You can't really control any of it.
Try your best to keep busy and don't think about her too much if you can.
Surfer.
Thanks Surfer. I've focusing on my time with my daughter trying to make it as meaningful as possible. Tough times indeed.
What does fighting for marriage look like to you?
Making the changes to myself that will allow our relationship to thrive. No more holding on to petty or benign annoyances that I allowed to fester. Telling my wife why I love her and why she's still such a special person to me.
I'm in therapy right now to have someone help me navigate this.
Listen I'm really sorry this is happening. You need to make sure you keep it together right now for your D, because you're in for a long ride and it won't be over for a long time. it will get a lot worse. I'm not going to sugar coat it. But it will get better or so I hear. One thing I wish I did differently was I would have spent less time worrying about my wife and more about myself. You have to realize you are facing maybe 2% chance of actually stopping the D. But I understand. You have to try at least.
Sorry today had been a bit of a tough one for you. The early days truly are the worst, and occasionally we all might have a down day, we're human after all and this is our spouse, our family and our m being torn to pieces.
As awful as it is to go through this process, it's unbelievable how much of a script they follow. As hard as it is, try not to focus too much on her right now. She will be all over the place, and there will be mood swings galore. Please keep in mind, this probably has absolutely nothing to do with you, it's just her mind is all over and they have no spew filter. The best thing is to focus on you and find your place of calm, then her actions and moods won't affect you quite as much. Then you can stay steady, and validate her spew.
Hang in there, I promise the pain does begin to ease slightly. I'm glad to hear you're focussing in your D. What are you doing for you? What are your personal goals?
I get it man. Right now as hopeless as it feels, I feel that I have to try for the sake of my daughter. My wife and I don't have the finances to maintain our home without each others salary so wed have to sell the house and move. My daughter already suffers from anxiety and I'm afraid that the divorce and move would really send her over the edge. So I have to at least try.
If my wife is hellbent on divorcing, regardless of the consequences, one day she'll have to explain to my daughter why she didn't at least try.
I'll survive and move on. I'm a fighter. My only concern is my little girl.
You've got a good grip on things with focussing on your daughter. My children are my absolute priority, I don't know how I'd make it through the day without my S (and bump).
My wh tried to steer me down a path of how WE would explain why WE decided to D. I told him I would play no part in the murder of the m, I would not help him do it, and I absolutely won't lie to save face for him! It's hard when you are feeling all these emotions but you don't want your child to see, but it is do able, I don't want him to see him mama cry, I also want to be calm and make him feel loved by me. Unfortunately there's not a lot else we can do for them really except keep routines as normal as possible and to show them love. Unfortunately the wayward is unable to consider anyone else's happiness other than their own.
Hope you've had a good weekend so far.
I get it man. Right now as hopeless as it feels, I feel that I have to try for the sake of my daughter. My wife and I don't have the finances to maintain our home without each others salary so wed have to sell the house and move. My daughter already suffers from anxiety and I'm afraid that the divorce and move would really send her over the edge. So I have to at least try.
If my wife is hellbent on divorcing, regardless of the consequences, one day she'll have to explain to my daughter why she didn't at least try.
I'll survive and move on. I'm a fighter. My only concern is my little girl.
Go ahead and try, I did. You have to have a bottom line though, where you realize that R is not going to work. I am really serious there is only a 2% chance, this board is all about building up hope for a R - you will read stuff that if you only 'do a 180' and 'work on yourself for you' or something, maybe some magic will happen where your W has a lobotomy and decides to turn it around. Realize that if you are on this board, most likely you are already f***ed. Go into it that way, decide on what your bottom lines are - and then when you hit that bottom line, turn your attention to protecting your assets and your D's best interests, and then moving on.
I held on for too long, and it caused way too much damage to me personally. It took text messages where my W was calling me a m***f***er straight to my face where I realized that it would be a miracle if I could turn that relationship around. I wish I would have just decided from the first day of separation that I was moving on and not even tried to work on the relationship.
The process of working yourself and becoming a better person, maintaining your self worth and protecting your self esteem, children and financial assets. And the process of 'trying to win your wife back'. They are the EXACT same process.
I hear you brother. Thankfully we're not at a point where we're cursing and fighting with each other I wouldn't take that either. The problem with my marriage is that we didn't fight enough. We never respectfully disagreed. We both just kept everything inside. Not a healthy relationship.
Making the changes to myself that will allow our relationship to thrive. No more holding on to petty or benign annoyances that I allowed to fester. Telling my wife why I love her and why she's still such a special person to me.
Don't make changes just for the MR to thrive. Make the changes for yourself, or they won't stick. I think you need to hold back on telling your W why you love her and why she's still such a special person to you. This is what a man might do if he was dating and falling in love.....maybe wanted her to M him. However, that's not the case in your situation. The woman wants a divorce! She is fed up with you and she's done. In other words, she doesn't want to hear all that stuff about why you love her. The point is that she doesn't feel it for you!
Women consider this type of talk as pursuing, and she won't respond favorable right now. She's likely to tell you it's too little---too late.
Yes, work on changing yourself into a better man. That has to come before changing into a better H. If she thinks you are trying to become super H........she's going to resent you even more. My advice is don't tell her you are working to improve yourself. Just do it. You don't have to announce it.
The other area I will caution you is trying to become super dad. I see a lot of men who completely over-kill by suddenly trying to devour the kid's time & attention and being some kind of Santa Daddy.........and it looks anything but authentic. It looks as if he is trying to win the kid's love, as to spite the W (at least, that's how it appears to the W). For sure, stop nagging her and being a pest!
Your W is not emotionally in the same place as you. You have woke up and are ready to work, but she is done. So, don't be getting all frustrated if she doesn't do cartwheels over your changes. It can actually cause some W's resentment b/c the H waited till she wanted a divorce before he decides to change.
Resentment is like cancer. Over time, it will eat at that person until not much of anything else remains. It is a relationship killer! If your W has carried around the same old resentments for years......then that will kill her loving feelings for you. She has to forgive and let it go.
The other big killer in a MR is disrespect. I suspect you W has has had some level of disrespect toward you for a long time. Maybe she has tried to hide it, or maybe it has shown in her attitude, talk, etc. There are many ways a W shows disrespect for her H. And, here's the thing.......disrespect kills her loving emotions for her H. She can't desire him until she respects him. That's the way women are emotionally wired.
Sandi,
I haven't told her that I love her since she told me she wanted a divorce. I haven't asked her where she is or where she's been. I've acted like a good roommate. I've stayed out of her way and given her space. No badgering or following around. I've been following your 37 rules to a tee.
I realize at this point that there isn't much I can do. She's agreed to go to counseling which is a bit of a surprise considering that week ago she said no way. I can't imagine her mindset going in is going to be "I want to save my marriage". Perhaps she'll have a change of heart. Or not.
I'm doing my best to be a good dad. The rest will follow.
Sounds like you are off to a good start. Your actions and mindset sound pretty good for this happening so recently. Hang in there!
Is it normal, while applying Sandi's 37 rules, for the spouse to turn angry? I've been working on myself, both physically and mentally, while trying to work on my relationship with may daughter. I've been nothing but pleasant towards my wife. Is she pissed off because I'm not crouched up into a ball in the fetal position lying on the floor?
The last few days I've decided that I truly love her and I want this to work out, but I'm not going to be a pushover.
Good job msp710 on your decision to try and work this out. Read DB/DR over and over again. The books will help you in being effective with your choice.
Yes, her agreeing to go to marriage counseling then out-of-nowhere your W's anger toward you, can be normal.
In MLC, 'anger' is one of the early stages the MLC spouse goes thru. It may get worse so buckle your seatbelt! You have my best wishes.
msp
Anger is a part of a script for many WAW's.
Mine showed anger at every turn...
Pay it no mind and stay focused on you and your D as you have said.
Buckle in as it will be bumpy before it calms down.
You can see my story for some of the do's and don't's of how to handle things.
Rich, JimKao are some other dbers that come to mind with anger being a big challenge.
Hang in there
Anger is one of the textbook responses to you not reacting the way they expect. They also harbor a lot of resentment and that often is expressed through anger.
In order to work up the strength to leave, they have to make you into some kind of a monster. And they (with the help of their friends) blow up all your faults and mistakes until you are the representation of all that is wrong in her life. It makes them feel less guilty for abandoning the marriage.
It's got no basis in reality. My own wife hates me with a passion at this point.
Let's call this what it is: a psychotic break (at least in my case). And not because she doesn't want to be married to ME. What happens to a person that literally they are behaving with love and kindness one day then 24 hours later they're treating you as if you've ruined their lives? I guess I'm trying to rationalize something that isn't rational. It just seems so insane that I can't wrap my head around it.
And to be angry at ME because I'm not incapacitated by her nonsense makes even less sense. She asked ME for a divorce even though SHE never told me she was unhappy and contemplating ending our marriage. It's been two weeks since the BD and she's acting as if I'm the one who asked for divorce. This is dumb and crazy.
Have you read DB/DR?
MWD explains the behavior of the WAW...
It is not a psychotic break...
I caution you as I see a swing in you that can be emotionally unhealthy if you are not able to identify and work on for yourself...
The blame game is part of the script for LBS as I have observed...
First we takeep all of the blame, then we blame the WAS...
You will see both of us contributed to the breakdown and the goal is to clean up our side...
Focus on the whys of the behavior of the WAW can be a cheese less tunnel...
Find a rational reason that helps you move your focus, but don't dwell to long because chances are it is a combination of things and knowing specific all of the whys does not change the situation nor what you should focus on to move forward...
I have tried to choose the path of forgivness...
Not necessarily for her...but for me and my future well being.
Choose the path that you feel will benefit the future msp710...
I hope you have a fine day.
I feel the pain and confusion you are experiencing.
Focus and effort can shorten the ride.
This statement may sound a little insane, but don't take her anger personally. Think of it as a side-effect of her waywardness.
Yes, some WW's get angry when the H begins applying the 37 rules, b/c she wants to be in control of him........even though, she currently doesn't desire him. It's not just the rules, b/c no matter what you do......she's going to show anger. That's why I tell LBH'S of a WW to not waste their time trying to please her, b/c that will only make her more angry. Crazy, huh? You aren't dealing with a normal woman in a normal M problem.
The best thing a H of a WW can do is put mental and emotional distance between him and the WW. Just leave her alone and show no emotions in front of her. When she does see you for a few moments, present yourself as a strong, confident man. You don't need her, and you don't have to put up with her bad behavior. At least, that's the persona she should see in you. Don't be an a$$, don't act desparate, and don't be a hen-pecked whimp. Be a man who stands tall, holds his head high, and shows inner strength, and leadership. Be a man you would want your son to be, and a man you would want your daughter to marry.
A lot of men are scared, bc they think it will push her away. They think they need to assure her he wants to save the M. Frankly speaking, the more he shows her he wants her and the M.......the less she desires it. I realize that doesn't make sense to a H, but the mindset of a WW is crazy. She doesn't think logically. When the WW believes he doesn't want her (b/c he's not pursuing and talking about working to save the M, and he is busy GAL), that starts to open her eyes and rethink about what she really wants. It probably won't happen overnight, b/c she has to have time to get her brain working properly. Currently, she is operating from her emotions.
In some of your thinking time, you may need to think about the dynamics in the relationship and home at the beginning of your M. Did it work? Did those dynamics change? If so, how?
Have you dealt with her A yet because she's having one with the co-worker. If not there is no point working on your marriage. You can't work on a marriage when there are more than 2 people in it and there are more than 2 people in yours.
The dynamics changed once my daughter was born. My wife had terrible postpartum depression to the point where I seriously thought she would hurt herself or our daughter. I essentially became my newborns caretaker. For the first few months, I would leave home in the morning and not know if they would be alive when I came home.
After a year we were falling behind on our bills so I suggested that my wife go back to work. That wasn't received with enthusiasm. She relented but made everyone in my home and our family miserable. There was no happiness or joy in our lives. So we decided that the next year, that she would stay home with our daughter even if we were going to struggle with money. She stayed home for four years, then when my business began to fail during the recession, she went back to work. Again, nothing but misery for my home because she had to work.
She resents me for having to work even though most people need two incomes to survive in this economy. She's never let it go. She's told me that I dissapointed her when she had to go back to work.
I haven't. She swears that there isn't anyone else and I'm not sure I could prove it without following her around. What should I do?
Also, she agreed to go to marriage counseling after initially resisting. Do I even bother with it? With each passing day she seems further away from our marriage.
Best advice ever on here:
"Believe nothing she says, and only half what she does"
She says there isn't an A, yet is at a guys home until 1:30 AM. Yeah, right. Be aware she will lie, deceive, manipulate, and guilt you at every turn. That is a fact. Don't believe it at your own risk. And it will stay this way until she has respect for you again. You won't get respect by being super nice with all the ILYs. This is where you are right now. Stinks, but that's what it is. Sandi has great advice about how to turn that lack of respect around.
txhubby is right. I worked on reconnecting before I knew about the affair. I learned stuff but it was ineffective. You have to either confirm it or assume she is in an affair. Snooping is controversial but I did it and don't regret it. Be ready for it to svck though.
As for counseling, I'd still go but it's not advised when you aren't on the same page. I'd have an agenda for it and not let it just be an hour to complain.
Marriage counseling only works if there is 100% transparency, no active affairs, and both parties are committed to the marriage. Ask yourself if those things are all true. If they are then go for it. As for an affair. How guarded is she with her phone? Next time you're going away from the house together purposely leave your phone at home. While you're out say "shoot, I need call _________ and I left my phone at home. Let me use yours." If she hesitates to hand her phone over even for a second then there's an affair going on. I wish that weren't true, but it is. I've lived it myself and I've seen it a hundred times on boards like this. It's a quick and simple way to learn the truth.
^ this guy knows what he's talking about.
I haven't. She swears that there isn't anyone else and I'm not sure I could prove it without following her around. What should I do?
Go back and re-read sandis post for starters.
I will tell you from experience what my MC told me. There is not a therapist on the planet that can successfully help a married couple that contains 3 people. She may say there is nothing ... let her go ahead and believe her own lie, apply the 37 and become physically and emotionally distant ... let HER chase YOU.... Let HER ask to go to MC... let these be HER idea. If you are chasing her, she will chase him and you will wind up tired angry and confused. DBing will help you become centered confident and in control of yourself.
If staying at a fellas house till 1:30 is not an A, its definitely something that should be addressed, and put to bed but that's HER issue to fix and I am guessing she would rather sweep it under the rug ..... ask yourself ... if the table was flipped and you were busted at a female co-workers house till 1:30 what would YOU try and do to correct the misunderstanding? First you most likely would not allowed that to happen out of respect for your wife, she did not think at all about you .... so just assume its a PA as the truth will come out sooner or later as she shows she is high on that A drug, its time for you to do the work ... go back and re read Sandi's post, her 37 and start DBing.
I don't know, but I know. She has to be involved with this guy on some level. Over the weekend she decided she would go to counseling. Today I ask her about a specific date regarding seeing the counselor and her response was "I also called a mediator. I'd like us to meet with one." When I suggested that we should see the counselor first, her response was, "I haven't made the appointment I just called for a consult."
Its clear she's in a different place than I am. I'm going to see the therapist with her just to see if she'll admit that she's having an affair.
I don't know, but I know. She has to be involved with this guy on some level. Over the weekend she decided she would go to counseling. Today I ask her about a specific date regarding seeing the counselor and her response was "I also called a mediator. I'd like us to meet with one." When I suggested that we should see the counselor first, her response was, "I haven't made the appointment I just called for a consult."
Its clear she's in a different place than I am. I'm going to see the therapist with her just to see if she'll admit that she's having an affair.
Cheaters don't admit anything they don't have to. Sometimes they do but it's rare. MC is a complete waste of time and money if she's going to lie. That's why you have to confirm one way or another before you bother. At a single male co-worker's house until 1:30am? It's confirmed for me because it's true but if you need more proof then get it by any means necessary. It really does determine your next course of action.
I don't know, but I know. She has to be involved with this guy on some level. Over the weekend she decided she would go to counseling. Today I ask her about a specific date regarding seeing the counselor and her response was "I also called a mediator. I'd like us to meet with one." When I suggested that we should see the counselor first, her response was, "I haven't made the appointment I just called for a consult."
Its clear she's in a different place than I am. I'm going to see the therapist with her just to see if she'll admit that she's having an affair.
Wait ... so are you seeing a mediator .. or a counselor? Those are 2 different camps set up to do 2 entirely different things.
MC is tough enough if both parties are not all in. You really may want to play the 37 out to a T and let her decide what she REALLY wants because it sounds like you have a Waffling WAW on your hands
She's not going to admit any wrong doing on her part to anyone. Particularly you or a MC. Not as long as she is wayward and in an active A. No way, no how. Seeing a MC at this point is just going to be a b-tch session against you. Not worth the effort.
CaliGuy, mvgfwd2 are right. So am I. Listen to us. We've been where you are. Your situation is not unique in any way. What we've learned that works and what we've learned that doesn't work applies to you to. Please follow the advice given. It'll give you your best chance at either fixing the M or moving on in a healthy way. They key is not to languish in this limbo maybe we'll fix it, maybe we won't phase. She doesn't mind because she has someone to comfort her. The OM. You? It'll possibly kill you. It almost killed me.
My little phone trick? Someone who had been through this before me told me about it. I figured what the heck. I had some minor suspicions about my wife but that was it. I figured no way she was cheating. I thought I'd play this little game to rule it out in my mind.
We left the house and got to the mall. I purposely left my phone at home. I said "crap I need to call ______ <our son>. I forgot my phone, let me use yours." Now, in our lives I've done that legitimately about 20+ times and she had always handed it right over. This time? She first says "I have work stuff on there now and I'm afraid you'll mess it up." I said that's ridiculous, I'm just going to make a call. Let me use it. Then she said, I'll call him, what did you want to ask him? I said never mind. I knew everything I needed to know. That gave me probable cause to snoop deeper and BOOM, there it was.
By the way, today we're still together and have fixed our issues. If I ask to use her for or she asks to use mine, we each would hand it right over.
Not all M's can be fixed. You made a good choice coming here. Now make another good choice and listen to our advice. Be strong. You can do this.
Hello msp710,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
Be very cautious regarding proceeding with MC. Not all MC are created equal. Michele has a terrific video regarding MC. Please send me and email and I will send you the link, no charge of course. Seeing a therapist together will not get your W to admit she's having an affair. Seeing a therapist together does give your W the ability to check off the box so she can alleviate guilt and say she tried everything.
Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
I'm going to cancel the MC. She just texted me that she was going to the diner to help her buddy to prepare for some evaluation he had at work. I'm done.
What do I do now? It's clear what's happening. She wants to go to a mediator so she can end this asap.
She swears that there isn't anyone else and I'm not sure I could prove it without following her around. What should I do?
She was at a male coworker's house til 1:30 a.m. What more do you need to know. Does it really matter if there was physical contact or not. Does it change what you do.
I'm going to cancel the MC. She just texted me that she was going to the diner to help her buddy to prepare for some evaluation he had at work. I'm done.
What do I do now? It's clear what's happening. She wants to go to a mediator so she can end this asap.
Follow Sandi's rules. She doesn't get to dictate the timeline of this. Nobody can force you to do anything you don't want to do. Slow the process down. Make yourself less available. Follow the rules. 180, detach, all that good stuff. I won't repeat them here, you can read them on their posted thread.
Honestly, she's following the script to a tee. She went to"help" her co-worker at 3:30 while I was at work. Left my daughter at home by herself for 2.5 hours until I got home. 5 hours later, she's still not home.
I feel for you man. That svcks. Follow the rules.
"Best advice ever on here:
"Believe nothing she says, and only half what she does"
You know this is from the book right? Did you ever finish reading it? In terms of DB, what have you been doing for you?
I've gone back to church and I've started running again. I've spent more time with my daughter in the last two weeks than I have in the last two months.
I've even following the 37 rules but an affair is tough to ignore.
I'm devastated but I'm going to go to the MC just to see how she spins this into my fault. I have a consultation with a lawyer next week.
I can't take this anymore.
Again, in terms of the book and its section on goals, what have you been doing? I get the feeling you really didn't read it.
I've read DBing twice and I've been following the 37 rules from almost the beginning. If I'm acting erratic its because I'm stunned. I read nearly all the first person accounts on this board but when things start happening to you, it's still hard to grasp.
Trust me, I've been working on myself. I been going to therapy and GAL. If I had to stay at home and do anything but the 37 rules, I'd lose my mind.
I've read DBing twice and I've been following the 37 rules from almost the beginning. If I'm acting erratic its because I'm stunned. I read nearly all the first person accounts on this board but when things start happening to you, it's still hard to grasp.
Trust me, I've been working on myself. I been going to therapy and GAL. If I had to stay at home and do anything but the 37 rules, I'd lose my mind.
I feel you my man. My wife was a Disney Channel type of girl. Not Cinemax. She was Mary Poppins not Samantha from Sex In The City.
People change. You can't stop that change. All you have control over is how you let it affect you. I'm glad you're following the rules. Don't ignore the affair. Don't cover it up. Don't accept it. Say that you won't be in a marriage with someone who is having an affair, then detach, and keep up your GAL. Start planning your days as if you're already a single father. Plan activities for you and the kiddo and don't include the cheating wife.
Become the absolute best version of yourself that you've ever been. She'll want in on that. You'll probably have her pursuing you if you do this right. When that happens you'll discover that all your work has made you feel great and you don't even know if you still want her. I went from begging and crying over our marriage to saying "I don't know if I want to stay with a cheater. I can do much better."
I really don't know how to deal with the cheating part. She says she not cheating but she clearly is. When she got home last night, I ignored her and went to bed. This morning I didn't even say goodbye. If she doesn't admit it, then what do I do?
I can't take this anymore.
You'll surprise yourself with how much you could take.
I'm not talking about slurping up what your W dishes out. I'm talking about taking what life dishes out at you, and your strength to figure it out and deal with it.
How much inner core you got ...? More than you realize.
I really don't know how to deal with the cheating part. She says she not cheating but she clearly is. When she got home last night, I ignored her and went to bed. This morning I didn't even say goodbye. If she doesn't admit it, then what do I do?
For me the definition of cheating has always been .. If it hurts your spouse its cheating. She will justify it to you, herself and all who will listen that its not cheating, or ... we are going to separate so its justified .. or I am filing for D so I can justify this .... bottom line you know its wrong so she can call it what she wants. My W told me it was not an A since we were separated, I truth darted that statement right out of the water and have not had to her her justification ever again.
My advice, drop the pursuit of trying to get her to admit it, in her mind she was checked out long before this .... what difference would it make if she said .. yup its an A and I am going back over tonight ... or not its not an A and I am going back over tonight. You can not control her nor her words or actions .... at this point just conside any spoken word a lie as well as 50% of what she does.
DETACH ... pull the rug out from under her physically and emotionally. she is getting her needs met by OM, let him fulfill them ALL, he wi only getting the good stuff, its new and they are both drunk off the rush an A brings and the M at this point can not compete. Read the section in DB again that deals with this ... its time to DB hardcore.... read Sandi's posts .. do not be afraid to be your own man and DO YOUR thing
"If she doesn't admit it, then what do I do?"
What do you want her to do? Do you have definitive proof?
Do I have photos or a DNA sample? No. But if your wife was with another man in his home until 3am, after she told me she was with a female co-worker, what would you think? I only caught her when she neglected my text messages at 2am asking if she was ok. She didn't know I could see where her car was parked and that it was in front of his house for 6 hours. They were just talking. Right.
My W swore on "on her mother's grave" that she didn't even meet the OM. And continue that BS even after the OM sent me pics he took of her when they met. I showed her the pics and she still lied, says her GF took them. Crazy. Yeah, don't believe ANYTHING WWs say.
DETACH ... pull the rug out from under her physically and emotionally. she is getting her needs met by OM, let him fulfill them ALL, he wi only getting the good stuff, its new and they are both drunk off the rush an A brings and the M at this point can not compete. Read the section in DB again that deals with this ... its time to DB hardcore.... read Sandi's posts .. do not be afraid to be your own man and DO YOUR thing
What is your plan and efforts for this?
Putting focus and energy here will strengthen you and the time may uncover the needed answers...
I'm doing my own thing. Running, working, cooking and having dinner with my daughter. I only talk to my wife when its explicitly related to my daughter. Today my wife left for work and looked at me and said goodbye. I see see the pain in her eyes. Not the kind of pain that makes her want to work this out, but the realization that I'm not going to be a pushover and beg her. I'm sure her therapist has been pushing her to move on and that the divorce would make all her problems evaporate. However the therapist doesn't have to live with the wreckage left behind by the divorce. All the pain and suffering. I think this is finally becoming real to my wife. I think she thought that I would just argue an beg her into staying in the M.
Be strong and stay the course. Guilt, anger, and even sex will be used to manipulate you until she is out of the fog.
Do I have photos or a DNA sample? No. But if your wife was with another man in his home until 3am, after she told me she was with a female co-worker, what would you think? I only caught her when she neglected my text messages at 2am asking if she was ok. She didn't know I could see where her car was parked and that it was in front of his house for 6 hours. They were just talking. Right.
You would think what we all we would. That she had sex with him. Probably multiple times. They had as much sex as they could fit into 5 hours. We all think that because it's the truth.
msp ... Concerning the A, or perceived A whatever you would like to call it.
You are at a crossroads here, you can fuel up and focus on that A/OM all minutes and hours of the day if you choose, where is this going to get you? Do not get me wrong, I did the same thing for far to long, all that wasted energy I should have applied towards what I called the Cali 2.0 campaign. Bottom line ... what do you want to do? Lets just accept your W is a WAW and involved in the EA/PA. You can not control her actions, this choice is hers and not reflective on you nor what you need to do now. Like I suggested earlier .... Sandi's 37, DB your arse off. You have to regain your sense of self and that will be impossible with wasting your time focused on where she is and with who.
The anger you feel is a good thing in this situation IF you apply it to get you over to the other side. Become a man only a fool would leave, the more you pursue and chase after her with the "Where were you, who were you with" the more she will run and feed you lies just because she can.
Pull back, GAL, PMA, 180 in there areas YOU chose and at some point do not be afraid to do your thing over what she wants you to do. You have a say in this .. much more than you realize.
I get it Cali. I was speaking with my therapist last night and she said basically said the same thing. My wife is thinking only about herself. Not me or my daughter.
We have a appointment with a marriage councilor tomorrow which is just window dressing in my eyes. She agreed just tom to say that she at least tried. It should be good entertainment at the very least.
All the 37 rules and DB'ing isn't going to save my marriage. I think my wife has been thinking about this for a long time and the new guy just set everything in motion.
I'm going to be a gentleman, DB my ass off and continue to hope.
MSP,
I struggled with the EA/PA. Still do but trying to stop. It's no use. Its hurting you, whatever it was/is. That's enough. If you did something that your old W was upset about, you would stop and apologise. She is still doing whatever it is, it's enough - disrespectful. She has probably been thinking about this for a long time. Protect your finances protect you and D and DB.
Right now, counselling is a waste of time for you I fear. My W just spewed and re-wrote history. My first question was why are we here A} To separate B} To mend our marriage. There was not resounding 'B'. Ask the question. If there is no resounding 'B' you have your answer.
Surfer.
I know in my heart that she only going to the MC as a way to pacify me and make her feel better about divorcing. I have zero expectations. If anything positive comes out of it, I'd be shocked.
msp
So you know MC is a waste .... why go? IMHO I would cancel or just not show up, if asked why I would tell her no sense going to MC when there is an active 3rd party, when she is TRULY ready to work on the M you will know, she will know, that time is not right now. Going to MC knowing its all for nothing would only harm possible MC down the road when you both are all in and wanting to work on things, otherwise its a "Well we already tried MC and it didn't work out so whats the use" type attitude.
Just my opinion, I would not go ... my time is more valuable than to put up a front that the M is being worked on while she is off with OM till whenever.
I was going to go in there and state that wife wants a divorce and doesn't want to work on our marriage and I'l like to talk about how we're going to break it to our daughter and live together until our house is sold and we can move on.
Does this sound crazy?
I was going to go in there and state that wife wants a divorce and doesn't want to work on our marriage and I'l like to talk about how we're going to break it to our daughter and live together until our house is sold and we can move on.
Does this sound crazy?
MC in theory is to help work on the MR, or if you choose a bad MC, they give permission to D.
Why do you think an MC is a good place to talk about that?
Honestly, I haven't had a real conversation with my wife regarding our situation. No more than 15 minutes combined in two conversations. I was hoping being in a neutral location can get her to talk a bit more.
It won't go as you expect.
Just saying they never do.
I throughly confused. I've been DBing following Sandi's rules but my heart thinks I should try marriage counseling. I know she's not into it but my hope is that once she get's in there, something might happen to soften her stance.
Look, I'm terrified of losing my wife and family. After all that's happened these last two weeks, I still love my wife and I'm willing to fight for our marriage. I really don't know what to do. Help.
Honestly, I haven't had a real conversation with my wife regarding our situation. No more than 15 minutes combined in two conversations. I was hoping being in a neutral location can get her to talk a bit more.
mvg is correct...
No setting will allow for the conversation that you want...
Look now! It is time to stfu, do what needs to be done and understand that there will be no conversation that will explain what you want to know, express what you want to express and have her understand or resolve the issues you think can be talked out.
All conversations for now will need to be of a "business like" manner...business discussions are those where facts are the focus (and I don't mean the facts as according msp, nor according to you waw). I mean the facts that a judge would allow in the court room...
You need to do your homework here if you are going to get this...and trust me, while you are spinning you need facts to make sound decisions.
I get that you and your brain are trying to make sense of it all...you want reasons...you want to understand...you want to convince her to see the error of her decisions...we all went through this...it is our script
So here is what you need to do.
Read and study cadets homework...study it like you are trying to pass a final exam.
Read and study DR in the same manner.
You put a "reason" or label to why this is happening in any manner that can help you STOP trying to reason and rationalize what to do next like it's a guessing game.
It really does not matter if it is WAW, WW, MLC or whatever right now...
You have to do the same thing regardless of which it is to get you straight.
Only after you can stablize yourself, and get yourself into a place of healthy detachment will you want to come back and determine which it is...
Don't misunderstand me, knowing the difference between a WAW, WW and MLC will benefit at the appropriate time ...often times there is a combination of the 3, but let's manage everything in the appropriate time..., right now it does not matter until you are situated...she has fired you as her H...time to accept that...does not mean you can't be rehired, but if you do not start to apply the DB principles, your chances diminish much.
So let me know if you understand what I am saying here and what you will do next...
Do not get caught up in the weeds here...you can't see the forest for the trees and there are those here standing on the outside calling in to direct you...you also have the road map...follow it.
I throughly confused. I've been DBing following Sandi's rules but my heart thinks I should try marriage counseling. I know she's not into it but my hope is that once she get's in there, something might happen to soften her stance.
Look, I'm terrified of losing my wife and family. After all that's happened these last two weeks, I still love my wife and I'm willing to fight for our marriage. I really don't know what to do. Help.
Look brother...you can follow your heart...and maybe it works out...but MWD has been working with folks like you and I for many years and your heart is more likely gonna lead to the opposite of what you are hoping for...
If you want a chance your going to have to follow the counterintuitive principles here...
You are not going through anything most of us here have not already experienced...the truth is that few MR survive the BD...but the grand majority that do, did so following MWD principles. Google it.
More "gurus" that work with troubled marriages use her exact principles...why do you think that is?
You have been thrown into the deep end here and told to swim...first time you go swimming a teacher will tell you to do things very counter to your instincts so you can swim...your instincts lead to actions that will drown you...
So what are you going to do?
Sink splashing around because your instincts tell you to thrash around...
Or
Swim, by calming down, flatten out, roll over and float a second to catch your breath...then roll back over and take one stroke at a time towards your goal?
Don't panic here if you want to survive.
MCs don't seem to go as hoped when both parties are not committed to fixing the M. If you are committed but she is not you will likely be disappointed with the outcome.
MCs don't seem to go as hoped when both parties are not committed to fixing the M. If you are committed but she is not you will likely be disappointed with the outcome.
I can agree with this. Before my W walked out on me she briefly suggested going to MC. I half hearted agreed but I knew in my heart I didn't want to save my M so even if we went (we never did) I knew it would be pointless. In my eyes my W brought nothing to the table to want to save the marriage so why bother with MC?
It was only after she slammed my head with a 2X4 by walking out on me did I realize my W did have a lot of things to bring to the marriage table.
I throughly confused. I've been DBing following Sandi's rules but my heart thinks I should try marriage counseling. I know she's not into it but my hope is that once she get's in there, something might happen to soften her stance.
Look, I'm terrified of losing my wife and family. After all that's happened these last two weeks, I still love my wife and I'm willing to fight for our marriage. I really don't know what to do. Help.
Breathe
All this is FEAR, which is keeping you stuck. I get it .. I was there too.
Ok, to go back and answer your question about bringing up the fact your W wants D in MC... no .. do not do that. You do not want D, so you do not even bring up the topic .. in fact if you are DBing you don't initiate any R talks what so ever right>?
You need to detach a bit, you are sucked in emotionally and feel that this thing is a runaway train and its going to destroy you ... truth is if you keep clinging to all this it will do just that. Recall reading DB and there is a portion that says all this feels to be against your very nature, feels like its the opposite of what you should do ... this is that time. You are here because you want to save your M, its time to actually APPLY the DB principles to your sitch, not just read, not react, but to walk and talk DB and give it time to work, its not going to happen tomorrow .... it took you some time to get here its going to take time to get out.
So I'm going to go home and ask her if her heart is into going to the MC. If she says no, I'll cancel.
So I'm going to go home and ask her if her heart is into going to the MC. If she says no, I'll cancel.
Why? You already know the answer ... this is an R talk you are about to initiate .... are you going to DB or continue to poke/pursue and push?
It's amazing. Every person I know, outside of this board, think that she acceptance in going to MC is a good thing. I see that it is not.
Have you contacted a DB coach?
No. my head is spinning. Not sure what to do.
I wouldn't encourage you do so.
You need t assemble a team to help you out...
Look at it this way, you have experienced a traumatic emotional injury that needs treatment...
What would you do if you experienced a traumatic physical injury?
You would seek the appropriate medical help, a good doctor, surgeon, physical therapist, etc. you would probably read information about your injury and how to best recover from it and then you would get to work and surround D yourself with the support to encourage you and help you recover.
Why? Because you need experts and knowledgeable folks to get you through.
Same thing here, you need a team of experts and knowledge.
DB coach, L, IC, read the material and learn what to do, and you have much support here.
Don't let the spinning keep you from getting the needed help.
Breath
Trust the team you get together
Take it slow
There is no hurry, but you want to act with urgency.
You can do this.
Are you seeking other threads here that appear similar to yours...
There can be nuggets of wisdom and ideas to inspire you about how to proceed or what to step back from
Maybe just tell her you cancelled or postpone the MC. If she asks why just say you aren't sure what YOU want right now. Leave it at that. Don't make it about how you think she thinks, make it about how you think and feel.
Spell check....
Should read I would encourage you to contact a DB coach...
So we went to the MC on Saturday. In my mind, I just wanted to get a lay of the land as my wife has given me so little insight into what she was thinking.
It went just as many of you expected. Apparently not only am I a bad husband, I am also a poor father. The MC actually pressed her on a lot of things which was almost comical. She contradicted herself with every sentence. She agreed to go back on Saturday for some reason. Perhaps she thinks that this is going to satisfy me and whatever guilt she harbors.
I'm going to continue DB'ing as its the only way I can get through the day. She's on her own. Also going to see a lawyer today just so I know what my options and rights are.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
It's amazing. Every person I know, outside of this board, think that she acceptance in going to MC is a good thing. I see that it is not.
The people you are talking with are probably not people who spend endless hours working on a forum like this one. Those people want to say something encouraging, and of course they think MC should help, b/c that is what MC does....right? MC does not stand a chance if one person does not desire to do whatever it takes to save that M. I have not seen MC save one M that had a WW. B/c she is wayward! She's resistant & rebellious to anything that does not fully agree with her selfish desires.
Just to clarify, once the W repents from her waywardness, and she is willing to do whatever it takes to save her M....then a good MC dealing with
couples healing after affairs, is advisable.
Sandi,
I get that now. We're going to see the MC on Saturday. I'm going to suggest that we discuss how we should communicate what's happening to our daughter who's starting to ask questions.
Right now my wife is in WW mode. She has no interest in saving our marriage.
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