Hello All,
I have been reading a bunch of different sitch's here and have found a lot of them helpful in relating to my own. So here is my story and I am hoping to get some advice.
I married my wife back in Sept 2004 after a few months of dating. She is 7 years younger than I am and when we got married she was 18 and I was 25.
She got pregnant 6 months into the marriage and we had our 1st son December 2005.
Soon after our son was born she become pregnant again with our second son. Our second son was born Jan of 2007 (they are only 13 months apart).
Now during this time I wasn’t a very good husband and we didn’t have the best marriage. I was drinking a lot and not handling myself like a very good person. While she was pregnant with our second son we got in a big fight while I was drunk and the cops were called.
She moved into our moms house for a few months while we worked on the marriage.
We ended up getting an apartment and were doing well after my second son was born but then we started having issues – fighting, me drinking, no romance, no communication, etc… She tells me she wants out and that she wants a divorce. She moves into her father’s house.
I find out she is seeing another man and I figure that is what lead to us moving forward in the divorce. So we end up getting a non contested divorce after 3 years of marriage. We remained really good friends.
Although looking back now I see that I was way available for her more than I should have been – helping her when he car broke down, a shoulder to cry on when her BF isn’t being nice, coming over and spending time with the kids during her time. Also we slept together twice while we are divorced but she was single and not with anybody.
I never got into any relationships while we were divorced because I still loved her and thought we would get back together – not to say I didn’t have fun just didn’t have anything serious.
This “friendship” goes on for 3 years after our divorce when she decides that she wants to start dating me again. I had purchased a house while we were divorced and she moves in to live with the boys and me. She tells me she loves how I am doing everything for myself now how shocked she is by it( this I think is key and I think where I have messed up) Everything is going great we are dating and loving each other. We know we had communication issues and my drinking to contend with. I messed up and got a DUI early in getting back together this time. I decided for myself that I am done drinking (haven’t had a drink in over 5 years). She forgives me for the DUI and sees that I have changed for the better. After awhile we decide that we want another child and she become pregnant with our daughter who is born March of 2013. We also decide that we want to get married again. This time a big wedding with all of our friends and family (our first marriage was in Las Vegas with just the two of us). We get remarried September of 2014 and were doing great until April of this year.
In April I get the ILYBNILWY and that she doesn’t know what to do. I suggest her going to counseling and seeing if that will help. Also at this point in her life she has a lot a lot of weight and is looking really good.
She is more confident and assured of herself then I have ever seen her.
She also starts working at a gym as the front desk person checking people in.
One of the things she tells me is she isn’t the same person she was 2 years ago. She is angry that I didn’t work out with her while she has been doing it and was making excuses. I tell her that I will start hitting the gym and working on myself as well.
She also tells me that she knew I still loved her when we were divorced and she used that to get me to do things for her (talk about a knife to the heart). So she goes to a counselor for a few sessions and then they invite me into the group. Basically she is ready to leave and wants her space but is agreeing to work on the sitch. So this past summer everything seems to be turning around. I am hitting the gym and while I started doing it as a fix for the marriage I all in love with it.
I am losing weight and looking really good. We continue going to counseling sessions and everything seems to be progressing. We go to Vegas for her birthday and we really connected. I even get an email from her saying that she was ready to give up on our marriage but she loves the man I have become and the man I am becoming.
We decide that we would sell the house we are in and buy a new house together because she explains that the house never really felt like home. Everything seems to be going great then all of sudden she does a 180 and tells me she needs space. She needs time apart from me because she isn’t sure she loves me in that way. She tells me she isn’t sure she ever felt that spark for me ever but got married the second time because it was comfortable and easy. I am told I am her best friend but we don’t have passion.
The current situation is she is moving out to an apartment that is close by on November 10th. I am devastated and try to go into Mr Fixit. I tell her I understand and that I will do anything.
I offer to pay for some of the apartment (I know what the heck???) as long as we continue working on the marriage. I basically start having no back bone at all.
Now she just seems angry at me all the time and doesn’t ever text me or want to talk to me. Currently she is with her mom in MN for a wedding and I have not seen her since Wednesday the 21st.
We have talked a little bit via Facebook messenger but it has mostly been about the kids.
She hasn’t brought up divorce yet and continues to say we are going to work on the marriage when she is in the apartment. I made the mistake of asking her that a lot when she broke the news to me. Also its really strange because she wants me to spend the night there the first night with the kids so they will feel more at home. Also for holidays – thanksgiving/Christmas she is going to spend the night at my house so we can all be together as a family. I know realize this is Cake Eating.
So I am not sure what/how to act when she returns or what to do. My feeling is she enjoying all the extra attention that has come from getting in spectacular shape and also all the guys at the gym. I don’t think she is having a PA but I wouldn’t be surprised if she is having an EA heading to a PA.
So as you can tell I have probably rambled a lot and left some things out. Just looking for some advice and place to journal when I am struggling.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Consider this your homework.
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
I did leave out a little bit in the first post about our kids. She wouldn't come out and say it but she has hinted around that having the kids so young and being a mother during her 20's really bothered her. She just turned 30 and I could tell that it was really weighing on her and she felt like she missed her something in her 20's. I am wondering if that is going to some resentment to me?? During the divorce I was worried that she needed to go out and experience having fun so part of the parenting plan was I got the kids Thurs through Sunday so she could go out and do things that 20 something year old's do if they didn't have kids. Now don't get me wrong she is a great mother and stays takes care of them during the day (she doesn't work at the gym until after the boys are out of school) but I can tell she gets very frustrated.
I am also having a hard time trying to figure out why she seems so angry at me all the time. I am not sure if its resentment.. or its easier to be angry with me than accept responsibility or what?? I think I have read on other people's sitch that it seems to be a common them for the WAS to be angry at the LBS. I am also way to nice of a guy so when she gets angry to I just want to fix it and try to make everything easier for her. I am realizing that is not working and not what I should be doing.
Hello matw,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
You mentioned that you want to fix everything. You can't fix her and you seem to be spending lots of time trying to read her mind. Focus on what you do have control over, yourself.
You are at a very fragile point in this relationship and it would be extremely helpful to know what your next move should be. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Hi Mat, welcome aboard. It seems you are aware of the things that aren't working. Is that right? If so, why not start at that point? (Btw, your post endorsed everything I have said about being BFF's with the WW).
I find out she is seeing another man and I figure that is what lead to us moving forward in the divorce. So we end up getting a non contested divorce after 3 years of marriage. We remained really good friends.
Although looking back now I see that I was way available for her more than I should have been – helping her when he car broke down, a shoulder to cry on when her BF isn’t being nice, coming over and spending time with the kids during her time. Also we slept together twice while we are divorced but she was single and not with anybody.
Once you are separated, my suggestion is to be nice, polite, and friendly (like a neighbor), when she contacts you or at kid swap, etc. Don't be available, and don't initiate contact, if not an emergency. Don't give her your shoulder to cry on, don't be her handyman or Mr. Fixit, don't let her use your place to spend her time with the kids. Do not sleep with her!
Everything seems to be going great then all of sudden she does a 180 and tells me she needs space. She needs time apart from me because she isn’t sure she loves me in that way. She tells me she isn’t sure she ever felt that spark for me ever but got married the second time because it was comfortable and easy. I am told I am her best friend but we don’t have passion.
She's getting attention from other men, and she likes it. She is bored with the MR, and wants to be free (again). But hey, she brought children into this world......and with children comes responsibility, right? Who wouldn't like to go back to being twenty again?
The current situation is she is moving out to an apartment that is close by on November 10th. I am devastated and try to go into Mr Fixit. I tell her I understand and that I will do anything. I offer to pay for some of the apartment (I know what the heck???) as long as we continue working on the marriage. I basically start having no back bone at all.
If you know this is nuts ^^^^^^^........what can you do to change it?
Hint: Do not offer to do
anything; do not pay for her to live like a single woman; and do not bribe her into working on the MR. And last, but certainly not least......
grow a backbone.
We have talked a little bit via Facebook messenger but it has mostly been about the kids.
Stay off FB, and don't discuss MR right now.
She hasn’t brought up divorce yet and continues to say we are going to work on the marriage when she is in the apartment.
She's lying.
I made the mistake of asking her that a lot when she broke the news to me.
Don't do it anymore! It shows her that you are weak and desperate, which is unattractive.
Also its really strange because she wants me to spend the night there the first night with the kids so they will feel more at home. Also for holidays – thanksgiving/Christmas she is going to spend the night at my house so we can all be together as a family. I know realize this is Cake Eating.
No repeats of the first divorce.......okay? No spending the nights at the XWW's house, nor her staying at your house. She doesn't get the benefits of being your W, once she's divorced you. No more holidays and family events together. It is no more one happy family after divorce! She needs a picture of that message now. How can you get that picture across to her? By stop letting her cake eat! Stop letting her dictate how things will be. Once she has moved out, there will be two houses, two lives, two separate families. Your actions based on that ^^^ will show her how her life will be as a single parent, and without you being there whenever she decides to use you for her selfish benefit.
So now, you have a big starting point, right? Oh, but I almost forgot.......
So I am not sure what/how to act when she returns or what to do. My feeling is she enjoying all the extra attention that has come from getting in spectacular shape and also all the guys at the gym. I don’t think she is having a PA but I wouldn’t be surprised if she is having an EA heading to a PA.
I wouldn't be surprised, either.
I appreciate everything you just wrote out to me Sandi. I know I have a lot of work on the boundaries, MR FiX IT, and Nice Guy that I fall back on. Its funny because when we were talking marriage the 2nd time she told me she fell back in love with me because of how I was taking care of myself and being in control. I look back since our marriage and realize I stopped doing that. I let her have all the control. We never fought there was no friction. I am one of those conflict avoidance types. Anyways thanks again for chiming it. It was a great reminder of what I need to work on.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
So last night was really interesting. Like I said earlier W has been out of town for a week. I had some family in town and met them at a restaurant with my kids. W thinking I was at home with the kids tried to do a video call so she could see them and say hi. I ignored it and texted her that we are out to dinner but if she wanted to talk to them I would let her know when we were at home. I left it at that and enjoyed the dinner. When we got home I texted to let her know we were home and she could video chat with them if she would like. So she does the call and talks to the kids.
What is interesting is after about 5 minutes she asks the kids to give the phone to me and asks our S9 & S9 to take our D3 upstairs to get her ready for bed. Then she proceeds to ask me how the kids are doing. I tell them they are fine and everything is going great. She continues to make small talk - Asking how I was doing? How was the gym? How did your work go? What plans do you have for the weekend? General stuff that probably normal people talk about. We actually end up spending a half hours just talking. No relationship stuff, no marriage, no separation anything. I made sure to act confident the whole time, not asking her permission for anything I plan on doing, telling her my plans without fear she won't like them, etc... It was sort of nice. It was probably the longest talk without her getting angry or short in a few weeks. She was seemingly interested in my answers.
So I decided the conversation should end and I should be the one to end I tell her I am going to go get the kids ready for bed and that I would see her tomorrow when I pick her up from the airport. Not more than 20 minutes later I get a text message from her asking me if I get everybody to bed? Then asking if I am cuddling our D3. She hasn't texted me out of the blue like that in a long while.
I am sure this is some sort of cake eating and her wanting the family side of things. Not sure if I should be more abrupt in ending the conversations like this and not allow them to happen. We still have another month and a half until she moves out to the apartment so I would rather remain civil if possible. I also want to make sure I am starting the process of regrowing my back bone.
On the other hand I am extremely nervous about her coming home today. It has been easy to semi detach from her because I haven't seen her in a week but now that she will be back I am going to have to put a lot more effort into it. When I am around her I tend to do a lot of things I know I shouldn't be doing - making sure the house is spotless so she doesn't get angry, making her coffee, rubbing her hair while we are in bed watching tv, etc... Those are going to be the biggest things I want to work on while she is back and before she leaves.
You handled yourself really well. Women like men who don't ask for their permission and who are decisive. Continue working on your backbone and I think your self confidence will rise.
Have you read the link on detaching? It's not acting cold.
I think you will need to be careful about your WW manipulating you. She's going to temp check you, which means she will test you to see how attached you are to her. If she sees that she still holds you in the palm of her hand, then she loses interest and is ready to leave. If she sees that she can't manipulate you through sex, tears, or whatever,.....then she isn't so sure.
Don't be surprised if she tries to tempt you sexually, or has turns on the waterworks (two top favorites)to see if you respond. Don't do what she expects. Don't show how much you care, or how much you love her and want her.
I think you will need to be careful about your WW manipulating you. She's going to temp check you, which means she will test you to see how attached you are to her. If she sees that she still holds you in the palm of her hand, then she loses interest and is ready to leave. If she sees that she can't manipulate you through sex, tears, or whatever,.....then she isn't so sure.
I am so glad you posted this. I really think that is what she is doing. So I go to pick her up from the Airport last night. I purposely try to keep my distance and not go in for a hug or kiss. She actually came to me to give me a hug and kiss. So we get home and I tell her I am going to gym so she can spend time with the kids. She calls me on the way to the gym asking what we want to do for dinner and what not. Anyways she has been texting/calling a lot more last night and this morning. I don't want to mind read and will just go with the flow. It makes sense that she is trying to manipulate me because this behavior is a total 180 from what she was doing before she left and while she was gone. I am going to be strong and not give into her. I want to continue working on myself and my relationship with my kids.
I haven't yet read the link on detaching but will read it right after this post.
When a WW sees or suspects one tiny step back from her H, she will do these type of things, b/c she wants him to stay where he is......which is attached to her.
It's crazy! She doesn't want to be his W, but she doesn't want him having anyone else to fill her position. She doesn't want to be M to him, but she wants all the benefits she had as his W. She will never admit this, but you can bet that is exactly what she will do. Even when the WW is living with OM, she expects her LBH to live his life around what she wants. The selfishness is staggering!
If you believed her show of affection were signs of her rethinking about the MR and you started getting all lovey-dovey, she would turn cold. Some WW's even have sex with the LBH, temp checking, and then the next day she is right back to her cold, angry, waywardness. Why? B/c she is satisfied that he is still attached.
The WW is not interested as long as the H is attached to the relationship/her. And, that is why I encourage H's of WW's to pull way back, to not be available, and to not be her BFF. Don't be fooled into thinking her bread crumbs are anything more than manipulation.
Your situation is not hopeless, but you cannot draw a WW by applying your nice-guy techniques. You have to be tough, b/c she has to have consequences due to her decisions. Her fantasy has to crumble. She has to go through a process, and the more you pursue, are available, cater to her, act like her BFF......the less chance (if any at all) to reconcile. She has to respect you before she is attracted to you. Not putting up with her b.s. is a big start.
Oh Sandi you are so correct on this. I am seeing it in action right now. She has been in a lot more contact (texting, phone calls, emails) last night and today. I know I am being more available than I should be. What you wrote is a good reminder the work I need to do and I am copying to a word a document so I can read before any interactions with WW.
So two things happened last night that I feel were a step in the right direction. First was back when we were seeing a MC he wanted us to do a check in nightly. Well we haven't done that in weeks and last night she wants to do a check in with me. For the first time I answer without a care how she feels. I let her know that I have been angry with this whole situation and I might decide that I don't want this R to continue. This is the second time we are going through this.. How will I know there won't be a third? She actually seemed a bit shocked by my response.
The second thing was before she left she is seeing our MC as her IC as well. After he last appointment I made the demand that the next time we should go together so we can work on the marriage and blah blah blah... I told her last night that I don't feel that way anymore and she should continue to see him by herself. I will make an appointment to see my own IC. I just don't feel like a MC is going to help us right now..
So somethings I am not doing right... I was more available than I would like to be. She caught a cold coming back from MN. I feel I was involved in that than I should have been. I was the one who texted my father to see if he could watch D3 so she could rest. She has a good relationship with my dad and could have done that her self. I need to stop doing things for her. I also rubbed her hair last night while we watched TV. This has to stop.. for the past 6 years I have either rubbed her back or played with her hair before we go to bed. It will be a big eye opener I think if I just up and quit this. She is going to have to get used to it anyways when she moves out to the apartment.
Also she told me that she got me something and it will arrive in a week. Why is she getting me a present at all? Goes back to Sandi's post.. but I made the mistake of being excited and showing her. Talk about playing into her hands.
So tonight I am taking my S9, S10, and D3 to our local drag stip to watch our friends do some drag racing. I used to race myself every year but this year I didn't because my W always seemed put off by it. So next year I am going to make sure I am racing with my friends. I love it up there and its fun to hang out. Also W will be at home and I don't plan on texting, calling, FB her at all. Short replies if she reaches out to me.
Also latley I have been putting a lot of pictures on FB of the kids and I when we are hanging out. I think I was doing it to show W that hey look we can have a lot of fun without you.. but now I think its having the opposite effect on her. Its allowing her to be connected to us without actually being there. She is getting the family time without the effort. So I am putting that on hold for awhile.
It is great that you are seeing the things that need to change!
Why is she getting me a present at all?
Did she say it was a gift? Doesn't matter. She will do things that will keep you confused, if you try to make sense of it. She's the one who is looney-tunes, remember? Seriously, my first thought to her getting something for you is that she's buttering you up. Everything the WW does is for her benefit in some kind of way......maybe now, maybe a little later. The WW will do something that seems actually "nice"......but she's just buttering up the H for something she wants. While he's all happy that she bought him something......she'll hit him for something she wants to do, or whatever....and he feels like he can't tell her no, since she was so nice to buy him something.
You cannot trust her.
Did she say it was a gift? Doesn't matter. She will do things that will keep you confused, if you try to make sense of it. She's the one who is looney-tunes, remember? Seriously, my first thought to her getting something for you is that she's buttering you up. Everything the WW does is for her benefit in some kind of way......maybe now, maybe a little later. The WW will do something that seems actually "nice"......but she's just buttering up the H for something she wants. While he's all happy that she bought him something......she'll hit him for something she wants to do, or whatever....and he feels like he can't tell her no, since she was so nice to buy him something.
You cannot trust her.
Well its working because it completely took me by surprise that she would get me anything. Its a complete 180 from the way she was acting before she left for her trip. I have to remind myself that everything she is doing right now is going to have some sort of ulterior motive to it. I guess I have to wait and see what sort of "something" she got me and what requests she is going to make of me.
So I have failed miserably at detaching this past weekend. I have a feeling that it will be extremely hard until she moves out to the apartment. She had a bad head cold ever since she got back from MN and its just gotten worse.
On Friday I went to the drag strip with my kids. I was having a lot of fun and hanging out. I kept looking at my phone seeing if she was going to text me. I know this is just driving me crazy and a bad habit. I finally (my mind screaming don't do it but my heart saying do it) texted her asking how things were going. She told me she was just getting into bed and not feeling good. So I stayed at the races until about 930 then headed home. She wasn't quite asleep yet when we got home so she stayed up asking how things were and being social with the kids and I.
On Saturday she had to wake up early to go to work (she works on a local gym that I also workout at). When I went to workout she was coming out of the bathroom as I was coming in. She came into give me a hug then laid her head on my chest for a minute. I worked out then went to grab kids from my parents. Once my W got off work at Noon she came home and we took the kids to a local Cider Festival. Then we headed to dinner. Its pretty clear that she doesn't want to lose the "Family" part of us but she is still very stand offish with me when it comes to hugs/hand holding/etc.. I didn't force it and neither did she.
Yesterday I went to the gym while she stayed home. She still wasn't feeling good so I took the kids to my parents to give her a few hours to rest/relax. While I was out she cleaned a lot of the house. More than I would have expected for someone who will be leaving in a month's time. Also did all the laundry for the two of us. One of the things I did when I went into Mr Fixit mode was to make sure the laundry was for the most part done and put away. I was talking to a friend and he said she probably was just trying to keep herself busy. I don't know but it seemed strange to me. We enjoyed the rest of the day watching football. I had a massage in the evening so went to that then came home.
Here is where I made a huge mistake and when we were laying down to bed I asked if she wanted her head rubbed or back rubbed. She said back and I rubbed her back while she sent to bed. I know this isn't what I am suppose to be doing at all but it just felt nice to be right there in the moment feeling close. That is why I think when we are in separate houses it will that much easier. Also she continue to talk about what we are going to do for Thanksgiving and getting our kids presents together for Christmas. Its just really odd..
So I know I need to start working on boundaries and also detaching myself from her. Stop worrying about text messages/Facebook/etc... Its just such a difference than were we were that I am having a hard time adjusting to it. We used to text each other a lot during the day so to hear nothing from her makes me uncomfortable. Now if I try it just feels forced and I know making her more resentful. I need to go back and read Sandi's posts and trust in the process.
journaling...
So yesterday was more of the same. I went to the gym in the morning 5am. One of the things I decided I want to do is a bodybuilding competition on April 8, 2017. So right now I am putting on as much muscle as I can then will do a 20 week contest prep starting November 19th. This will be huge for me considering I was 277 lbs (and fat) last spring and by the time the contest happens I will be under 200 lbs (haven't been that low since high school). So the diet, working out, etc.. will be a major concentration for me while I work through the W and I living apart. It will also be a major confidence boost to me because I have never been in that good of shape (i.e. seeing my Ab's
)
So the hardest part for me is not texting my W during the day. I find myself wanting to text her to see what she is doing, how our kids are, and checking in... We used to text a lot just a few weeks ago before she dropped the bomb she was going to move to the apartment. Now unless I text her its rare that I get one from her. I guess its almost like an addiction for me... then when I do text her its just forced conversation. Nothing enjoyable about it for either of us I am sure. I need to stop texting..... I know it and as I write this it makes so much sense. I guess just harder to put into practice.
So last night I get home and my wife has cleaned out a good portion of our garage so she can park her Jeep in there. Before she decided she needed space we were going to sell this house and buy a new one. Well we were moving all of the stuff to the garage so we haven't been able to park in it. She has been unpacking all the boxes and putting things back. She is putting back up our pictures... even the ones where its the two of us (like engagement and wedding pictures). Its really a mind [censored] when I see these pictures. I want to ask if she plans on putting any up at her apartment or am I the only one that gets to be reminded that we failed at marriage twice?
Anyways we ate dinner together the two of us. She brought up she was going to be stressed about money while she gets ready for the apartment. I really didn't respond because I am not the one who choose to move into an apartment. I have already committed to paying $300 a month for it which looking back I should not have done. W and I also talked because she isn't happy with her work from home job. She has always wanted to be a counselor for addictions and I honestly think she would be good at it. She is going to go to a local school here for an Intro Class in the beginning of November to see how their program works. Again she made a comment though that she didn't know how she was going to pay for it. I knew I shouldn't respond but being the guy I am I said if it was something you really wanted to do we could figure it out. After we talked for a little bit she went up to take a shower.
I played with my 3 kids and we had a lot of fun. I was throwing a ball around to my S9 and S10 while my D3 tried to get it from us. She was laughing so cute and having a good time. W came back downstairs and played with us for a little bit. Actually saw her smiling and enjoying spending time with us. Then we take our D up to bed with us. We watched some TV while our D fell asleep. We were both having a hard time falling asleep so she wants me to scratch her back which I do for awhile. This is the first time she has actually wanted to be the close to me. I know its wrong but it just feels so good to be like that. I know its going the wrong way when it comes to her respect for me.
Also I have a question.. my W turned 30 this past August. It was really hard on her. She made comments like she had kids all during her 20's and seems resentful by it. She also had a friend of hers commit suicide in July that hit her really hard. Now she is questioning her job and obviously our marriage. I am wondering is 30 to young for a MLC? or least some tendencies that way. Does that change anything I should be doing? Maybe it doesn't matter and I am mind reading but just from some of her actions it seems like it. Also we had a lot of issues when our S's were 3/4 which is that age our D is right now. Also at the time she was turning 21 which is a pretty big age when it comes to wanting to be single/partying/etc... Those are just some similarities I am noticing between this sitch and the one we had before. For all the LBS we all know the mind races incredibly on all sorts of thoughts/feelings.
So while this is the first step in many many days I feel proud of myself. It was hard and extremely difficult put I didn't text my W at all today while I was at work. Its funny my mind was coming up with a million different reasons why I could/should text her but I stopped them all. I have to stop pursuing her and give her space to walk her own journey. I am hoping that I can keep this up. I am going to be leaving work her shortly then she is supposed to meet my parents and me for dinner with our kids tonight. Just wanted to share because it really has been difficult all day... It will get easier I know...
So last night we all met for dinner with my parents. Everything was going good. She was talkative and seemed to be in a good mood. She had asked me yesterday morning if it was ok that she went to Starbucks after dinner to get re certified (take a test) in Google Ad words. I told her that of course that was ok. While we were waiting for the check to come I told her she can go now if she wants. As she was getting up the made the effort to come over to give me a kiss and a hug before leaving.
I took the time alone with my parents to talk about a GAL activity that has been on my mind a lot. Earlier this year I started down the road to getting my private pilots license. If anybody has done that they know it gets pretty expensive. When of the things my W brought up when we were in counseling was she didn't like how I never asked her if I could do it. I just did it. So I put it on hold and figured it was for the best especially since we were looking to buy a new house. Well since we aren't buying a new house I want to finish and I am going to do it even if she doesn't like it. I need something that is mine and I am slowly coming to the realization that I live a lot of my life for my W. It was rare I did anything for myself for fear of making her angry. So I talked to my parents about starting to fly again and the reasons I was going to do it. So I am really excited about starting this again. Its funny because the Nice Guy in me is nervous about telling W but you know what she is moving to an apartment for her space. So why do I have to check in with her anymore?
So anyways I went home and gave my D a bath. While I was doing that my W starts texting me about the test and everything just some small chit chat. I keep it short and tell her she should get an espresso to make sure she stays awake. Then thats it.. She comes home after a little less than 2 hours. Ask's me how everything went then jumped in the shower. We laid in bed cuddling our D then went to sleep. Pretty uneventful evening.
Today I am doing the same thing with the no texting unless she texts me first. When I got to work she called me saying our D wanted to speak to me. So I talk to D for a little bit then talk to W for about 5 minutes about taking the kids to library tonight to get books and what not. So now I really have no reason to text her today and I am going to do that. Like I have said in earlier posts we texted a lot and I am sure we talked to much during the day.. So this will be a big 180 for me.
I don't envy your current position. Your cordial but you really can't plan your future because your wife is wishy washy about whether she's committed to your family or not. It sounds like you have a great little family there, if she doesn't recognize what a great life that is then she's got mental issues.
It's kind of a limbo you're living in and it seems like you'll stay there until YOU decide you've had enough. I spent a couple of years in limbo with my WAW/WW and it was hell. She finally realized what a great life with me/kids she was in danger of losing with her behavior.
One day I decided I had had enough. I filed for divorce and that freaked her out. She snapped out of you stupid funk and was all in and has been ever since. She says all the time that she thanks God that he opened her eyes to what she had and what she was about to lose and then she always follows by thanking me for giving her this chance.
The best thing I've ready in your entire thread was when you told your W that you had doubts if you even want to continue the R because this is the second time she's gone flaky and you don't want to have to worry about a 3rd, 4th, etc... You saw her reaction. That scared her for a bit. Then she got you to start giving her back rubs and when she was comfortable she had hooks in you again that abated her fear.
That attitude you showed her a glimpse of is your saving grace. Make it part of your daily personality. It should be. You were 100% right. Being in a marriage where you have to worry about your partner flaking out and wanting to walk at the drop of a hat is no way to live. She's either in this marriage for the long haul or she isn't.
She'll sit on the fence as long as YOU allow it. If you're not ready to knock her off that fence yet that's cool, I understand. It took me two years of misery before I said life is too short for this sh*t and I had her served. That did the trick and we're still together. Even if my WW had gone the other direction and we D'd I'd still be fine. Why? Because I really did detach and was planning my life without her. The fact that she knows that now has changed her whole attitude. Don't ever be anyone's guarantee. Women don't respect men they have wrapped around their figure. She has to earn your love as you have to earn hers. Every day, forever.
You're doing pretty good, think about the part I told you. That was good stuff and produced positive results. You have a great team there with you and the kids. She'd be nuts to lose that. The detaching part let's her see that she might and her reaction tells me she doesn't want to lose it. Don't be a doormat, don't be a guarantee for her. You work hard, work out, are a great dad. You're a catch. You'll never be alone if you don't want to be. Remember that and take confidence in it. Your W will feel that confidence of yours and it will be very attractive to her.
TxHubby - Thank you for the reply on my sitch. I really do understand everything you are saying but it is so hard to put into practice. Its strange I am finding it harder this time then I did when we divorced before. I think the biggest problem I am having right now it detaching. Its so strange it feels like some hours I am doing a pretty good job detaching then other hours it feels like that's all I can think about. Today is day 2 of not texting her at all today. Even if its just about the kids... Which I was finding myself texting her to see how they were doing but in reality just wanted some sort of contact with her. I also know that I am the one allowing her to sit on the fence and I think its because I am not ready to have divorce talks again. She has never brought up divorce only that she needs her space. So I think some irrational part of me is so afraid that she will move towards divorce I am not detaching as much as I should. She is doing the ultimate cake eating right now I am sure of it. She doesn't want to lose the family. Also in a little over a month she thinks that she will be able to have both when she moves into her apartment... the family plus her space to be whatever she wants to be.
I worry when I hear the "I need space" line. You and I are veterans of these things. 99.999% of the time when a spouse says "I need space" when suggesting separating what it really means is:
"There is an OM/OW and I want to pursue something with them. I'd like you to hang around as my fallback plan in case that doesn't work out."
I wish that's not what it mean but it almost always does. I feel you on the detaching. It can be tough. I couldn't do it and then one day it just happened and I was detached. That has been a challenge for us during our reconciliation and reconnection. My W is fully attached/connected. I am but to a lesser degree. I didn't fake the DB process. I really did detach. At that point I wasn't sure I even wanted her anymore. After all, she was a cheater. Who the heck wants a cheater?
Look into the "I need space" statement further without looking like you're looking into it. If there is someone else that changes the strategy so it's important to know.
I worry when I hear the "I need space" line. You and I are veterans of these things. 99.999% of the time when a spouse says "I need space" when suggesting separating what it really means is:
"There is an OM/OW and I want to pursue something with them. I'd like you to hang around as my fallback plan in case that doesn't work out."
Thanks TxHubby.. This really hit home. I think I have always known that's what this really means. Its pretty obvious if you think about it rationally. Problem is its hard to be rational about it unless you detach. I am slowly seeing the importance of detaching and getting her out of my head.
journaling...
So yesterday I was sitting in my office feeling sorry for myself.. I was looking at my phone every 5 minutes to see if she had texted me or not. Then I realized that the reason I am upset isn't because she hasn't texted me its because I AM sitting here waiting for her to text me. I am giving her control over my emotions and I need to work on stopping that.
As I mentioned earlier my goal is to get back to getting my private pilots license. I need to work on getting my medical cert before I am allowed to fly solo. I had 2 DUI's - One 12 years ago and one over 5 years ago. The FAA wants me to go see a special Medical Examiner to see if I need to be monitored for substance abuse. I haven't had a drink since my last DUI. My last one was a big eye opener. I was hit by another car and my Jeep flipped on its side. I broke my neck at the C6 vertebrae. While I was recovering from that I made the decision I would never drink again and haven't. So once I decide I was done looking at my phone I started calling the FAA to find out what exactly they wanted me to do, I call Medical Examiners to find out who I could go see, and requested my medical records to be sent to them. I texted my Flight Instructor and told him I was coming back to see him! I stayed busy and didn't think about my W for the entire time. I started getting excited again about the prospect of getting my pilots license. So happy to say I will be meeting with the doctor on October 18th for my evaluation.
So last night I went to the gym where my W works and picked up my kids. Talked to her a little bit then left to take them to the library. My S10 has to do a biography book report so we went to find one he would enjoy and that would interest him. My S9 and D3 played in the little kids club they have there. It was an enjoyable hour for the 4 of us.
We went home and while we were getting in our pj's my S9 comes up and give me a hug. He tells me, "I can tell your losing weight.. before I couldn't get my arms around you but now I can." Well that just put the biggest smile on my face and I hugged him for a good minute after that. I have lost 50 lbs since April and am on my way to doing a bodybuilding competition in April 2017. So to hear him say that meant more to me than anything anybody else could have said.
W comes home around 9pm and we eat dinner together. We are actually having some good conversation joking and playing around. We head upstairs to get our D ready for bed and W jumps in the shower. After she is done my W was like did you notice a package on the front doorstep? I said no but didn't look. She went down and looked but it wasn't there. She tells me she is going to look in the mailbox to see if its there. Comes back a little bit later with a package for me. This was the gift she had told me about last week. I open it and its an Incredible Hulk Blender Bottle. She says, "I saw this and it made me think of you. You have been doing awesome with the working out and I want you to keep it up." I am a huge Incredible Hulk fan and she knows that. I am not looking to much into it and know this was probably just another way for her to keep me attached.
So we go to bed and I am up early this morning to hit the gym. I see I have a notification on FB that she tagged me and I like it. Then she texts me this morning saying she is happy I like my new blender bottle. Then a little bit of small talk and I have decided to stop texting for the day unless its something important. Here is to another day.
So what's the status currently? She wants to play house all sweet but is still moving out in November? Basically, she likes to eat cake?
That is exactly what it is looking like right now. She is probably one of the ultimate cake eaters and I know that I am a fool to allow it to continue. I think it will be a lot easier once she is out of the house and in her apartment. Sort of the out of sight out of mind thing. I think the hardest part is I haven't caught her in any lies or doing anything she isn't supposed to be doing. She doesn't text anybody while in our bed, she comes home when she is supposed to, tells me where she is going, she doesn't hide her phone from me, clear browsing history/etc... She stopped being angry with me all the time and actually has conversations with me. Yeah we don't text all day like we used to but that wasn't very healthy and probably very codependent on my part. So I think I am just waiting and being patient until something comes up. TxHubby, you and I both agree that "needing space" is more about needing space away from me to do whatever she wants to do. I want you to know that I really do feel that is what is going on. I guess I am just unsure of what my next move is and have more of a wait and see attitude. I know that once she is out of the house I probably won't see her more than when we exchange kids.
I am still doing my stuff with the pilots license, going to the gym, spending as much time as possible with my kids. I am slowly trying to detach from everything and realizing that the only person in this world I can control is myself.
I too got the "need space" at one point. I lived your limbo for over two years. I gave her space alright. I had her served with divorce papers. She called shocked. I said I'm giving you all the space you want. You're free. Go find whatever you're looking for and I'll do the same. I'm not saying it will work in every case but it did in mine. That snapped her out of it. I flipped the script. She started with the constant effort to engage with me. I got the "I woke up and realized what I was going to lose". I went from pursuer to pursued. I was "meh" about the whole thing because I had truly decided I was done and was looking forward to moving on.
Women are strange. Maybe men too. If you want them, they'll find it easy to pull away from you. When you don't want them then they'll want you. They want what they don't or can't have.
I'm not telling you to have her served but it works. No more limbo. You force the issue with your wife. It's "either you're in this marriage or you're not, I'd like to stay married but I'll be just fine without you." Don't linger in limbo. That life [censored] and you start wishing for death.
Hey TxHubby I want to let you know how much I appreciate you posting and sharing your story with me. Your right the limbo is a mind killer and I don't want to live in it any longer than I need to. I just feel right now I can't give her the your either in this or your not right now. I called an IC and am waiting for a call back to see when I can get in. Its actually the guy we were to MC for and I really liked/connected with him. I am sure I am going to get the same advice.. I guess I am waiting because I think it will be easier to get the, "I am not in this", when she is out of the house and in her own apartment. Then it will be a lot easier to transition to NC (except about the kids). I am going to keep journaling and I want you to keep me honest.
I understand. It took me a while to force the issue. Don't wait too long. It's brutal. Definitely employ the DB rules. The longer you let her "get away with it" the less she'll respect you. Women don't respect cuckolds and if you know she's cheating and do nothing about it then that's what you become. Even if you file and have her served there's nothing saying you two have to go through with it. That depends on her actions. She'd have a lot of work to do to repair the damage she has caused by her hurtful and disrespectful actions. She has destroyed her integrity. She's not an honorable person right now and it will take a lot of work to get that back. Do the 180, the 37 rules and if you have to say anything to her then tell her you won't be in a marriage with someone having an affair. It's too disrespectful to you and you won't be disrespected like that. Honestly my man, limbo does nothing but worsen your position in all this.
So last night something interesting happened... I went to pick up my kids from the daycare at the gym my wife works at. As we are leaving for some god awful reason I tell her I missed her today. She then says oh yeah, "D and I had a very busy day today" From some reason her answer just makes me angry and wasn't what I wanted to hear. Then I blurt out, "You could at least say it.. just be nice to hear" She looked at me sort of confused and I say, "Sorry I just have a lot of things on my mind that we can talk about this weekend"
I get the kids in the car and see I have a text message from her -
W - So whats going on?
M - I just have a lot going on in my mind and I apologize just sort of bubbled up there for a second. I didn't mean to sound snappy if I did
W - No your ok. You can tell me later
Obviously I didn't want to bring it up while she is working and I am avoiding the R talks as much as possible. I just couldn't help it for some reason. This was probably the first time I felt anger.. not just sadness about the sitch but actual anger. For a split second I didn't want to work on my M and all I could think about was I will not live like this. I feel that I need to get to that place without the anger but with detachment. So I am not sure what I will say to her this weekend if she brings it up....
So W had a girls night out with one of best friends at a local bar here. She came home from work and I drove her over to the bar to meet up. That way if she took Lyft she wouldn't have to worry about her car today. She posted a FB picture of her and her friend at the place around 1030. I took a benedryl because I knew I would have a hard time falling asleep. I woke up a little after 1 am to a text saying - On my way home. This was strange because a few months ago when we were doing good I had told her that I didn't sleep well when she went out and it was nice when she texted me when she was on her way home so I knew she was safe. Since we have been having issues she hasn't done this at all. For some reason she felt the need to do it last night. Not looking to much into it just thought it was interesting. She came home a bit intoxicated and we talked about her night and how much fun she had. Then off to bed for both of us.
This morning I woke up and got my kids ready. Then drove them over to my fathers house so he could take my S9 & S10 to school and watch my D3 for the day. This will be a normal thing once my W moves to her apartment. We have already decided I would have them Thurs and Friday nights because of work and workout schedules. Other days are still up in the air right now.
journaling...
So this last weekend was decent but not the best. My W on Saturday was pretty hostile towards me.. very short 1 word answers and really didn't seem to want to be around me. We went out to dinner with my parents and she eventually started acting better.
On Sunday we woke up and took the kids over to my parents house so we could go hit the gym. We worked out together and she was for the most part pretty decent to me. She kept introducing me to people as her husband. Which she hasn't been lately doing.. more just talking to them while I sit on the sidelines. We went to breakfast together and had a little talk. Nothing to much but I couldn't help myself. Not sure how it got brought up but I said something along the lines that I have been giving her space and she told me she noticed it and appreciated it very much. She also asked me how come I didn't talk her out of our D3 when she said she wanted a baby. She told me that she feels like she only knows how to be a mom because we had our S9 & S10 when she was so young. I also have a feeling she resents that she made the decision to quit her job after our D3 was born. She admitted it was her decision and took responsibility for it but make the comment it was a good job. I know we are not suppose to mind read but I am thinking from all her comments that being a wife/mother/caretaker is just extremely hard on her and she is wondering what if she didn't do those things...
So after breakfast we went to a corn maze and pumpkin festival with the kids. We all had a lot of fun and my W took pictures of all of us and posted them to FB. She hasn't included me in any pictures in a long time but did this time. So it was a bit odd... I can tell she is probably just trying to keep me attached... aka cake eating... When we got home we did our meal prep and pretty much stayed out of each others way. Its very strange.. we are pretty much like roommates.
Yesterday went pretty well.. She texted me in the morning looking for our D3 shoes and if I had seen them. Then later in the day to let me know she isn't working Thanksgiving - We plan on spending it together as a family even though she will be in the apartment. I waited an hour before texting her back saying that's to bad because she could really use the money. Then while I was driving home she calls me letting her know she was on her way home and excitly told me about her workout. It was different than what she has been doing. Not sure what to make of it. Last night was more of the same.. just acting like roommates.. Its very confusing but I am trying to act like I have more confidence that I do.
Today so far we haven't spoken and I don't plan on texting her at all... Although I am having such a hard time detaching.. She is all I can think about which is so dumb.. I also realize I am doing things for her and in the back of my mind hoping it makes her happier. I have to stop this or its going to just prolong this whole situation. Easier said than done but its what I have to do... I just miss my W so much and wish we could turn this around.
So a question for the group... Last night driving home from dinner my S9 asks me why mom seems so angry and annoyed with him and my S10. I just told him mommy is stressed out about her job and getting everything done with work. I told them I am here if they ever need to talk about anything on their mind. I told them I love them and being a father means I will always love them. They said they understood and they loved me.
We haven't told our S9&S10 that my W will be moving to an apartment in November. We plan on doing it later this month to give them a few weeks to get used to the idea. My question is do I bring it up to the W that my kids are feeling that way? With her attitude right now I have a feeling I will get something along the lines that I am turning the kids on her or she doesn't care that the boys feel that way. I am thinking I just leave it alone unless I see something extremely serious and just be there for my boys. Any thoughts?
It's great you are working out and I congratulate you on the weight loss. It's so unfair how men can lose much faster than women. Anyway, keep it up.
When do plan to stop catering to her? You have co-dependent ways and admit you are a nice guy (actually, I think you are rather proud of your NG ways), and except for trying to cut down on the texting through the day, I fail to see what you are doing differently.
She goes out to meet for a girls night out, and leaves you home with the kids. When do you go out with friends and leave her home with the kids till after 1:00 a.m.? What do you do to GAL? Other than workout....(which to me, is not GAL....b/c it's not fun, it's work).
You have mentioned over & over how hard it is to not do such & such. You'll say, "I know I shouldn't have, but it's just so hard". Matt, nobody said this would be easy. If anything, you may have been warned that it would be the hardest thing you've ever done. But the thing is.........nobody else can do this but you. Sure it's hard. Is it worth it? Are you going to give up b/c it's hard? Is that going to continue being your excuse?
Tell me something. What would you be doing in this situation, ordinarily, if you weren't trying to DB? That's what I'm trying to see. What are you doing differently than what you'd do if everything was fine?
When do plan to stop catering to her? You have co-dependent ways and admit you are a nice guy (actually, I think you are rather proud of your NG ways), and except for trying to cut down on the texting through the day, I fail to see what you are doing differently.
She goes out to meet for a girls night out, and leaves you home with the kids. When do you go out with friends and leave her home with the kids till after 1:00 a.m.? What do you do to GAL? Other than workout....(which to me, is not GAL....b/c it's not fun, it's work).
You have mentioned over & over how hard it is to not do such & such. You'll say, "I know I shouldn't have, but it's just so hard". Matt, nobody said this would be easy. If anything, you may have been warned that it would be the hardest thing you've ever done. But the thing is.........nobody else can do this but you. Sure it's hard. Is it worth it? Are you going to give up b/c it's hard? Is that going to continue being your excuse?
Tell me something. What would you be doing in this situation, ordinarily, if you weren't trying to DB? That's what I'm trying to see. What are you doing differently than what you'd do if everything was fine?
I needed to read this today because you are right. I am not doing any GALing at all. I am basically playing family and doing everything I did before she told me she was going to get the apartment. I think it hit me pretty hard last night how much I am co-dependent and am way to nice to her (NG ways). That is one of the things I want to talk the counselor I am going to see later this month. I continue to put her feelings in front of mine and I need to stop. I need to think long and hard about my GAL activities and detach from her. Thanks Sandi.. I have a lot of thinking & action to do..
So last night I realized how much I haven't detached at all... The W comes home from working out and I start bombarding her with questions.. just to get her talking to me.. nothing serious just questions. I realize that I am looking to her for my happiness. As most of know the Walk Away Spouse is usually very resentful, hateful, will spew, give short answer, etc.. Instead of walking away and letting it roll of me I continue to ask her What is wrong? What is on her mind? This just makes her even angrier. She starts to rewrite history and how I am smothering her to much. I now realizing that I will never be able to fix her no matter what I do... I guess it was sort of eye opening. Just sort of rambling here because last night I really do see that she isn't interested me in the least. I need to start protecting myself emotionally and detach or I am going to go crazy.
So as soon as you are done reading DR, I would encourage you to read about nice guy syndrome by Glover. This has been life changing for my H, who was silently suffering for his entire life, being a people pleaser and for women especially. He is near recovery (sounds silly) but it does take time to understand and change. It's worth your while because most likely some of this has contributed to the breakdown of your M and her losing respect for you.
It's going to be counterintuitive because it goes against what you have always believed in life. Were you by chance raised by an overbearing or critical mother? Did you grow up feeling that you needed to stuff your feelings and put others before yourself? Was it easier just to be nice and make things easier than speak your mind or express your feelings? If any of this rings true, then it's time to take a look. An IC can also help you explore how you were raised with these beliefs and how it may now be working against you.
I completely agree with TxHubby in that people want what they can't have and usually the wayward does the 180 when the LBS gives up. I think the same is said for a WH as a WW. This is certainly what happened in my sitch too. I am not super popular with some of the women LBS posters her because I tend not to agree with being friendly, available, or trying to nice your way back to R. Even if it gets results, I don't think it ultimately will bring them back. Men want a wife that is not sitting their pining for them while they are cheating and walking all over them! I want to see more ladies (and men) understand their worth, stand tall, and move on without the wayward.
Women (and men) are attracted to someone that is strong, confident, and has it together. If someone is actively trying to leave you and you are nice and available, they will only lose respect. It sounds like your wife has lost respect for you and is cake eating, by enjoying family time and protecting that image for the kids. So if she moves out and has a new BF, will you still want the friendship with her? If not, it's time to take a giant step back, don't answer to her, and all she needs to know is that you have a lot to think about now. That's it.
Blu
Mat,
You're hoping against all hope that she is going to change her mind about the apartment. As a result, you are avoiding anything that might upset her and make her firm up her resolve to leave.
Isn't that right? Honestly?
You should be thinking about solidifying some of the standard operating procedures for when she leaves. And, by the way, that $300/month rental assistance should come off the table. Who has the kids when? How will you handle transfers and pickups? How will you handle marital bills, if there are any? Changing locks/keys for the house, since she should no longer have access once she's moved in to her own place.
These won't be fun. I predict she'll get really mad at you and lash out.
But they are the reality, right? If you're a nice guy, I bet you can find a way to do this reasonably and logically, not spitefully and vindictively - though I know it will be tearing you up inside.
Marriage requires commitment by both spouses. Period.
Blessings,
Bill
So as soon as you are done reading DR, I would encourage you to read about nice guy syndrome by Glover. This has been life changing for my H, who was silently suffering for his entire life, being a people pleaser and for women especially. He is near recovery (sounds silly) but it does take time to understand and change. It's worth your while because most likely some of this has contributed to the breakdown of your M and her losing respect for you.
Blu -
Just want to say thank you so much for the information on Robert Glover's book. I got it today and it describes a lot of my life in detail. It explains a lot of the way I act and why I do a lot of the things I do. Its given me a lot to think about and why I am having such a hard time setting boundaries, doing GAL, etc... I am going to continue reading it and will check back in to this thread after the weekend.
Mat,
You're hoping against all hope that she is going to change her mind about the apartment. As a result, you are avoiding anything that might upset her and make her firm up her resolve to leave.
Isn't that right? Honestly?
Bill,
You are right... I hate to admit it but that is exactly what I am hoping for. Been doing a lot of reading today about NG Syndrome and realizing a lot of my actions I am doing is because of FEAR. I need to do some thinking and then start to work on some action because what I am doing right now isn't working... I appreciate you stopping by and giving me some insight.
So I had a decent weekend. Went to get my hair cut and then to the gym Saturday morning. Be awhile since I got a haircut and was looking pretty shaggy. That is one thing I need to start doing on a more regular basis just for myself. Went and got the kids from my parents who were watching them while I was running those errands. W came home from work and working out about 1:30 or so. My parents had offered to watch the kids so the W and I could go and see a movie. So W and I went to see the Accountant and then went out to dinner. We actually had a lot of fun. No R talks, no holding hands during the movie, nothing.. more like just hanging out.
On Sunday the W and I went to the gym together. Again more just hanging out, laughing, having a good time. When she moves into the apartment we want to get our sons cell phones so they have the ability to contact either parent. We plan on having the talk with them next week. Ended up not getting over to the cell store because we were running out of time. Went home and meal prepped our food the rest of the week. Then out of the blue she send me an email that I will paste into the next post. Need some advice as to what I do with it... After dinner the W went up to take a bath and I took the kids for a walk. Then got everybody ready for bed and the W and I watched some TV before going to bed ourselves.
So again really just playing family for now.. and you will see when you read the email below.
So here if the email -
First, I want to apologize for a rough week. I know I wasn't being very nice or open. It was a rough week with everything and I am struggling with the kids and not sure why or what to do about it.
Second, I did have fun with you this weekend which is good and bad.
I want to try and explain things from me and I am not sure if it will help or not but I feel like we are always up and down and I just want to try and clear some things up. I know neither of us are looking forward to the changes especially the conversation with the kids but I still haven't changed how I feel about moving out and us.
I do have a lot of fun with you and of course I care about you and your well being both physically and mentally. And I know this may not help you or clear things up for you but I will try. I know we have a lot of fun together and this weekend was fun just joking around and giving each other [censored].I want you to know that I do like that about our time together and that is the best for me. I like you as my friend and I like when we hang out and I know this may not make much sense but I feel like we almost ruin that by being together. Like being together brings out complications, expectations, and things out in each other that we may not like. I know you will always support me and my decisions and I will always support you and your decisions and I don't think that will ever stop and nor will I ever stop.
However, I do know that even though we have fun together it can also be confusing for us and for feelings and what not.
I don't necessarily want to talk about anything right now but I guess what I am trying to say is I value you and our friendship and am struggling to respect you as well as boundaries. I know you want to work on this marriage and keep talking about that but right now I am just trying to work on myself and it's hard to think about both but I do appreciate you and everything your doing.
So my take reading this is that she has lost all respect for me as her husband. She is now considering me just a friend and one that will pretty much do anything for her. The part about working on the marriage and keep talking about that I think comes from the fact I told her if we weren't going to be together than I wasn't going to take care of her financially earlier in the day. Just need some advice and wondering what everybody thinks.
Yep, you've been friend-zoned. That's why that stuff doesn't work with wayward wives. She might as well be your gay friend b/c she feels no sparks for you. The chemistry is not there for her.......and you can be her BFF till the cows come home, and she still won't feel attraction.
I think it's great when a couple has tons of fun together, but there needs to be chemistry.....too, or they might as well be brother & sister.
Have you finished your books yet?
I read your last post and was about to give you a dire warning about being friend-zoned but sandi beat me to it. That's exactly what is happening and it will be fatal to your marriage. The gay friend analogy is perfect. This is why you should follow the rules. Going on your own will probably lead to the demise of your marriage.
I think it's great when a couple has tons of fun together, but there needs to be chemistry.....too, or they might as well be brother & sister.
Eeewwwww, that's gross! Matw, don't do the sister thing; you've already had children with that woman.
Yep, you've been friend-zoned. That's why that stuff doesn't work with wayward wives. She might as well be your gay friend b/c she feels no sparks for you. The chemistry is not there for her.......and you can be her BFF till the cows come home, and she still won't feel attraction.
I think it's great when a couple has tons of fun together, but there needs to be chemistry.....too, or they might as well be brother & sister.
Have you finished your books yet?
Yeah I was thinking that I had been friend-zoned by reading this. I was pretty much thinking that already. I guess I am wondering is there any hope of getting out of the friend zone? Any advice you have I would appreciate. I have a feeling its more important than ever now to follow the 37 rules and start standing up for myself.
I did read a book on NG Syndrome which was very insightful and very helpful. I haven't finished the DB book yet but will make that a priority.
I read your last post and was about to give you a dire warning about being friend-zoned but sandi beat me to it. That's exactly what is happening and it will be fatal to your marriage. The gay friend analogy is perfect. This is why you should follow the rules. Going on your own will probably lead to the demise of your marriage.
Yeah I think in my heart I knew thats where I was headed.. she had talked in one of our joint counseling sessions about passion and how she doesn't have it for me. I think I always knew we were headed down this route. When you say the rules are you talking about the 37?
haha Doodler I am just glad I really don't have a sister or that would have been super creepy!
So today I am extremely depressed and having a hard time... It hit me that I probably won't be married this time next year and I am pissed/hurt/sad/etc... All the normal emotions I suppose. I just really thought that we had an awesome story.. got married the first time.. that didn't work out so we divorce. We remained good friends and parents. We decide we want to get back together and get married again. Now I am having to go through another separation on the way to what I am assuming will be another divorce. I am losing hope everyday that we will ever get back together as husband and wife. Why in the hell did we get married again?? Why are we going to put our boys through this again?? Our D3 won't even remember us being a happy family..
Its eating me up that she is just seeing me as a friend/caretaker/etc...
I need to use this anger to stop being a nice guy and letting her walk all over me. Sorry I just needed to ramble a bit..
matw,
I'm sorry you're having a difficult time right now. One of the things that I found that helped me most during the hard times was to get up off the couch and get stuff done. Whether it was household chores, exercise, or something fun. Just moving around and getting things done made a huge difference.
Good luck to you; it does get better.
Thanks Doodler.. Yeah I guess its really tough when I am at work. Seems like I just stew on it when I need to get up and moving.
The other thing is last night she pretty much admitted that she regrets having kids... She is a stay at home mom right now but has been talking she wants to get back in the workforce. She is going to start going back to school and start using her degree. I just don't know how I am supposed to compete with that... of course she wants "Space" because then at least part time she doesn't have to worry about being a parent.
The other thing is last night she pretty much admitted that she regrets having kids...
Ouch! That would hurt. I can understand why you're having a hard time right now.
Whats funny about it... is she was the one who wanted our first son. I have always wanted a family so I said yes of course. Now our second son was an accident. They are only 13 months apart so she only got a few months before she was pregnant again. Then we get back together this last time and she tells me she wants another kid. So we have our daughter 3.5 years ago. She even asked me a couple of weeks ago how come I didn't talk her out of the our D3. Now don't get me wrong she for the most part is a great mother and loves our kids. She would do anything for them. Right now though it seems like she wonders what her life would be like without them (and me of course). She loses patients with them so easily now and appears so frustrated if they do anything like normal kids do.
I just really thought that we had an awesome story.. got married the first time.. that didn't work out so we divorce. We remained good friends and parents. We decide we want to get back together and get married again.
Well, you've got the good friend & parent part down, pretty good.....it's the M that seems to be the stumbling block. What were you like, during the time you were divorced from each other? Did you act like a confident man who had his b@lls firmly attached? If so, then that was the main ingredient that attracted her back. (If she was
indeed attracted, and did not have another reason). I'm not saying that other things are not important in a MR, but I am talking about a man and woman attraction factor. Not standing up for yourself is a sure attraction killer in a relationship.
Its eating me up that she is just seeing me as a friend/caretaker/etc...
So.....change it.
Well, you've got the good friend & parent part down, pretty good.....it's the M that seems to be the stumbling block. What were you like, during the time you were divorced from each other? Did you act like a confident man who had his b@lls firmly attached? If so, then that was the main ingredient that attracted her back. (If she was indeed attracted, and did not have another reason). I'm not saying that other things are not important in a MR, but I am talking about a man and woman attraction factor. Not standing up for yourself is a sure attraction killer in a relationship.
Yeah you are right... Back when we got back together the 2nd time she was impressed because I started being confident, doing things for myself, living my own life. She said that's what attracted her to come back to me. But now I am questioning all that.. recently she has told me the only reason she came back was because it was easy and I was so comfortable. Part of me wants to believe that is the part where you aren't supposed to believe anything they say and only half of what they do. I guess that's why I feel defeated today... Its beginning to look like no matter what I do we will be heading to a divorce.
I know I am sounding whiny and not confident today... which is surly unattractive. Its time to go and read, follow the rules, and start living my life for me and my kids.
All these revelations point to your wife needing some serious individual counseling. She doesn't know who she is and what she wants so in that quest to find out she engages in very self-destructive behavior. I feel at this point in time working on your relationship is futile. She is incapable of being in a healthy relationship. She really needs individual counseling to figure herself out. Until she does that there isn't much else you, or anyone, can do. As for OM's they don't care. They'll just say whatever it takes to get in their pants.
Yeah TxHubby I agree. She is seeing a Individual Counselor that she found back in April when she first dropped the love you but not in love with you. Then we used him for a bit of couples counseling. Which led us to having a great summer together. Then she had this breakdown where she didn't know if she wanted to be with me again a few months ago. He requested to see her individually again. He did tell me in private that this has nothing to do with me and everything to do with her. Now she is seeing him individually again. She hasn't been since early September but has one next week with him.
I have decided I myself need to go see a counselor and made an appointment for next week. I really do need to figure out how to stop being the "Nice Guy", stop caretaking her, and as I have been told in this thread a few times - GET MY BALL$ BACK!
I think today has just been really hard because I am coming to the realization that the marriage I knew is over and won't be back for a very long time (or ever!). From my earlier posts you can tell that I was hoping beyond hope that she would change her mind about moving out... now I am realizing in order for me to heal I need to be alone (obviously with my kids). I am also realzing like you said that isn't going to be much I or anyone else can do. Since I have such a habit of being a Nice Guy and FixIt type really messing with me but I need to get the skills to put matwgood first. I guess we all have good days and bad.
I personally don't think your wife is bat-[censored] crazy. I just think she has issues with being in a committed relationship. Not saying she wouldn't benefit from some counseling, but I don't see the malice...
Is there any reason why you can't set the tone here, and do it nicely? Seriously, that email to you was incredibly honest and kind. There was love in that email. She knows you're a good man and she cares about you.
There's no OM, right? Can't recall.
You're not looking for a parenting friend. You're looking for a wife who is committed to your life together. So tell her that. And if continuing to be involved in each other's lives as just friends is impossible, tell her that too.
I remember my Ex telling me once just prior to her divorce being final that she just knew we wouldn't be like other divorced couples - that we would still go on trips with our boys, share meals with our boys, etc.
Disbelieving, I looked her squarely in the face and said, "That will never be happening. I'm not interested in being your friend. I want to be your husband, nothing else."
Of course, I wound up divorced too. There's that...
Blessings,
Bill
Hey Bworl,
I agree I really think that she has a big issue being in a committed relationship. The therapist even told the both of us that when things get Real for my W she shuts down and pulls away. In therapy one time she explained a lot of hurt/pain seeing her mom fighting with her husbands and the happiest times were when her mom was leaving her stepdads. She was crying explaining all this to the therapist and I. I could tell it was causing her a lot of pain. My W didn't have the best role models when it came to stable loving relationships.
There isn't another man that I know of. There isn't the phone games, unexplained absences, texting someone all the time. I do think there might be more of an emotional affair be it either fantasy or reality. I really don't snoop a whole lot because I find that when I have done that in previous relationships it consumes me and I hate the man I become. I figure I will find out about it eventually one way or another.
I do think your right on setting the tone here and need to do it nicely to her. I like your wording here and will use it in the future. I think right now I am going to chill on all relationship talks. She obviously needs to work through her issues and the more I think about it the more I think we do need a separation for the both of us. I hate to admit it but I have become so co-dependent, niceguy, MR Fixit, wimp... on her and I need time to find myself again. So right now the plan is to continue status quo but with more confidence, detach as much as is possible, continue reading, and work on putting myself first.
So yesterday I was not in a good place. I was just thinking about the marriage, it being over, the kids, etc... I decided I needed to go see some friends that I haven't seen since April of this year. I used to do kickboxing for many years and these guys were my trainers. They are the sort of guys that will always be there for you and genuinely care about your happiness. They both know my W as well (we used to kick box together).
So I showed up at the gym unannounced just to hang out with them. It was so nice just talking and having fun. Explained my sitch to them and while they were sad because they had both been to our 2nd wedding. They were extremely supportive and told me they were always there for me no matter what. Saw a lot of people that I have not seen since I love the 50+ lbs. I won't lie it felt good to have so many people tell me I was looking good, what was I doing, wishing they could lose that much.
Now the part that made me feel like I really do need some help is I felt guilty being there. I felt guilty that I needed to take out time to reconnect with some friends. Something normal people do all the time. My W didn't know I left work early to go see them and I didn't tell her. She goes out with her friends why should I feel guilty going to see mine. It was during these thoughts that I realized how far I have fallen from being a man. I wasn't doing anything wrong yet I felt like I was. I have just as many issues as my W does.. they are just different ones. Ones I need to work on for myself if I ever want to have a relationship that I am true to myself.. either with my wife or someone else.
It's good when you begin to catch honest glimpses of yourself.
Now you know what people are talking about when they tell you to examine and reflect on yourself as a man in order to consider how you might like to make some personal changes.
You can't change her, but you can change yourself. And don't tell anybody, but...that's even better.
Blessings,
Bill
It's not your shortcomings of being a man. It's just that you had gotten used to sharing things with your W when in a M. That's the way it should be. But now things are different. You're no longer in that mindset. It takes some getting used to again.
So last night we finally told our S9 and S10 that my W would be moving to an apartment in November. My S9 is pretty sensitive and started crying right away. About broke my heart. When my S10 was alone with me he started crying as well. I could tell this is hurting them both. My W and I decided to get them a cell phone they could share so that they are able to text/call each parent whenever they want. They were pretty excited about that and we told them if they can share the phone for a month and be responsible we would get them another one so they can each have one.
After we told them my sons just wanted to hang out with me. They came upstairs and helped me pack my gym bag for the next - I workout at 430am then shower and head to work. Then we went downstairs and watched some football. Both of them were very clingy and wanted to sit next to me and hold my hand. I love them so much and feel bad that were are doing this to them.
W called me this morning and felt it went really well. I told her that they were both extremely sad and will probably hit them in waves. She seemed annoyed that both our boys wanted to hang out with me and made the remark - Looks like they are worried about you. Seemed like an odd remark but maybe its true... I have always been extremely close to my sons and has even been a bit of an issue with my W because of that.
Anyways I am glad we told them and let them know what was going on.. I was sick of hiding it and they deserve to know. She is set to move Nov 10th into her apartment so we will have a few weeks to observe them and make sure they know that we both love them.
Hey Bworl,
I agree I really think that she has a big issue being in a committed relationship. The therapist even told the both of us that when things get Real for my W she shuts down and pulls away. In therapy one time she explained a lot of hurt/pain seeing her mom fighting with her husbands and the happiest times were when her mom was leaving her stepdads. She was crying explaining all this to the therapist and I. I could tell it was causing her a lot of pain. My W didn't have the best role models when it came to stable loving relationships.
There isn't another man that I know of. There isn't the phone games, unexplained absences, texting someone all the time. I do think there might be more of an emotional affair be it either fantasy or reality. I really don't snoop a whole lot because I find that when I have done that in previous relationships it consumes me and I hate the man I become. I figure I will find out about it eventually one way or another.
I do think your right on setting the tone here and need to do it nicely to her. I like your wording here and will use it in the future. I think right now I am going to chill on all relationship talks. She obviously needs to work through her issues and the more I think about it the more I think we do need a separation for the both of us. I hate to admit it but I have become so co-dependent, niceguy, MR Fixit, wimp... on her and I need time to find myself again. So right now the plan is to continue status quo but with more confidence, detach as much as is possible, continue reading, and work on putting myself first.
Hey Matw,
Got caught up on your sitch.
First paragraph - you hit a huge nugget of truth. She married at 18, having NO good example of how a husband/wife should look. We learn as a child by watching... more is 'caught than is taught' as they say.
Reading your postings, I sense that your W has family of origin issues (FOO), and incorrect modeling of healthy family dynamics. You can't fix the past, and she can't either. She's just doing what she caught. She has safety in you... safety from hard fights she witnessed as a kid.
I fear your wife has much to learn, and needs to grow up as a person to make the marriage work. Not that you don't need to work on things as well. Her working out helps her self-esteem, but the possibility exists that the past haunts her, and the working out keeps the demons at bay.
My ex-ww has those demons. She is running from them, like she did most of our marriage. Wouldn't talk about sensitive topics, share her deep feelings, used humor and sarcasm to salve the wounds. She might run the rest of her life - I'm divorced, so those demons are hers to own. I was the nice guy. I let her have her way - it was always her way or the highway. I have my own addictions I deal with, too.
Your wife moving out needs to understand what that will do to your relationship. You will not be there for her any longer. You will be there for the kids, but not for her. I would pull the money off the table again, even if she flies into fits of rage. She will. Get your junk back. Stand there and let the spit fly into your face. Be the ancient oak on the shore, being rained on, blown against, but never falling.
Continue to GAL. Be a great dad. These are awesome things.
I don't have a good way to get your wife to see her FOO issues, and bringing them up right now might make things very much worse. I'm going to leave it up to Sandi and the vets to help with that. Better yet, ask your IC about it. I just think it's a big component of what she's struggling with, and it's what tore you both apart the first time, and is again.
Both of you have to be at 100% of yourselves to make a marriage work. 1+1='s 1 in a marriage. 100% of yourself would be ok with her moving on, but sad for the kids. You would be secure in your future, your life, and what you want. You could shake her hand, say goodbye, and be ok, never looking over your shoulder, never talking with her again. That's really tough to make happen in a short time - it takes work. Time and distance help.
My worry is that super-hero Matw will come to the rescue come November, and any time the wife uses the kids to get her way. That would be my hope and prayer for you - make YOU as important as anything in your life.
My worry is that super-hero Matw will come to the rescue come November, and any time the wife uses the kids to get her way. That would be my hope and prayer for you - make YOU as important as anything in your life.
Hey Trumpet,
I want to say thank you for the thoughtful response and going into detail about the FOO. I really haven't thought about it in the ways you were talking. It really makes sense. I do want to let you know that is my biggest fear that I will continue to come to her rescue. I have my first IC session tomorrow and that is one thing I really want to concentrate on. I have such an issue putting myself first when it comes to her and always do what I can to make sure she is happy. I am realizing that that isn't the correct way for me to behave. Its not my job to fix her issues - Nor will I be ever be able to. This has to come from her.
So an update on my sitch -
We are pretty much just roommates now as we wait for apartment to become available. We talk at night but its mostly about the gym, her new work schedule that is coming up, or the kids. We don't have any deep conversations. While I am tempted to have R conversations I don't because there isn't a point in that right now. While I am not looking forward to her moving out I know that its what is needed right now. I am beginning to see the value in me having space from her. We don't talk about divorce and the only thing she has said about it she isn't looking for that right now.
Tomorrow night we are going to a play that we bought tickets for months ago so I am will be upbeat and confident. On Saturday we have a Halloween party for a mutual friend that we are going to attend together. This will probably be the last weekend we will be doing stuff together. My kids asked me last night if we were going to ever go on family vacations again together.. about broke my heart but I didn't let them see. I just told them that we will have to see but no matter what I would do something special with them.
Some goals that I am working on -
Putting myself first - My main goal
Detaching - I am not doing a very good job.. better than I was a few weeks ago but still have a long way to go.
Counseling - Going to see him tomorrow and really get to the bottom of why I avoid conflict and Nice Guy mentality.
GALing - Have been reaching out to old friends to reconnect and want to start going out to do stuff again. I am also going to start my flying in a few weeks which I am really excited about.
Putting yourself first will be hard.
Don't earthquake your life thinking it will solve the issue. Be systematic.
Do ONE thing for yourself you want to do. A movie by yourself. A dinner that you enjoy but she doesn't. Buy some nice cologne, a new shirt in a color you like, but maybe she doesn't. Just a few examples. Doing things will be better than BUYING things, in my opinion. My lone week out on the east coast is a highlight of this year - lots of good thoughts from that trip.
How can you be grateful for the things you DO have? Even the smallest things. Name them. List them. Make an 'easy' and 'hard' bucketlist. See if you can do some of the easy things this week.
You're building a brick at a time, not a wall at a time.
Putting yourself first will be hard.
You're building a brick at a time, not a wall at a time.
I really like this way of thinking. It really is the small things that will add up over time with putting myself first. That's going to be my plan.
So today I have my first meeting with a IC. I am a little be nervous but also looking forward to talk about some of my issues/concerns/goals. I really need to stop looking at this as poor me.. my wife and I are separating. I need to realize this is an opportunity to grow as a man/person/father. That is the mindset I am trying to work on.
Hope everybody has a great Friday and Weekend!
So thought I would update my sitch.. Went to my IC last Friday and we had some interesting discussions. This counselor is the one that my wife went to as an IC and also we used for our MC. Now we are both going to him as an IC so he has some pretty good insight into what is going on in our marriage. First thing he tells me is, "We have a very confused women and I hear you are being very patient with her." Then he tells me, "You know there is a different between being patient and stupid..."
So he asks me about my wife's relationships that she has... with friends, family, our kids, etc... Ask's me if she has ever had any really good relationships that a mutually beneficial to both parties. I realize that she really hasn't in the 15 years I have known her. Basically he tells me that my wife doesn't have the capacity for it because she always shuts down and runs. He explains that is what he is going to be working with her on.
We then go into that I need to stop being the nice guy and helping her. I have been enabling her through the entire relationship. He wants me to stop avoiding conflict with her as well. Not in a mean way or anything but stand up for myself. He also wants me to stop helping her so much. She needs the move out to be painful for her and realize that running from responsibility/feelings isn't the right way to go about it.
He wants me to work on myself and continuing putting myself 1st. He gave some great suggestions and recommendations. Its not about going out and doing big grand gestures to prove your putting yourself first. Its move about doing smaller things that add up over time. Doing things only for me and not because I want someone else to think of me a certain way.
I left there with a lot to think about. I think the best thing I can do for myself right now is to work on detaching. This has been difficult for me and has been slowly driving me crazy how much I think about her. I know it will be easier once I detach and realize it will take sometime. I think it might be easier once she is in the apartment.
So I haven't written in here for awhile. Been lurking in other peoples threads but decided I would journal a little bit today.
Having a rough time of it... Today is the day my W signs the lease on her apartment. She will be moving a lot of her stuff today and then the bigger furniture this weekend. So by the end of the weekend I will be alone in my house while she will be living in her apartment.
Yesterday we talked a little bit over the phone about everything that is going on. Its the first time she actually showed a little emotion. I could hear her crying and explaining how are this was on her but she needed to do it. She wants to concentrate on her work, school program she is enrolling in to be an addiction counselor, and our kids. She did say she doesn't want a divorce right now because she doesn't want us to do anything we will regret in the future if all we need is time/space from each other right now. I guess that is a positive and gives me the time to continue working on myself.
For me I saw my therapist again on Monday. We went over how I acted the first time we divorced and how I was always there for her. I explained the different ways about how I would always come to her rescue. He said I am really the ultimate nice guy and we need to work on putting my needs first. He wants me to get to a place that if she calls because one of the kids is throwing a tantrum and wants me to to come over I say no. She needs to deal with it because she is their mother. Obviously we aren't taking big behavioral issues that would need both parents. He explained she will test me and will call me to come over. I have to say no and let her feel the pain of being a "single" parent. She has asked for this.
We also went over how hard I am taking it this time versus the last time. He thinks its because I know deep down this really will be the end of our marriage. Whether she makes it so or I realize I need someone who can fulfill my needs in a relationship. We talked about how much I give to her with out getting anything in return.
We talked about the kid schedule and how we were going to manage that. I went over the original plan that I came up with which had a lot of back and forth plus me watching them a majority of the weekend. He said that I am doing it again and helping her way to much. I told him I wanted to do a 2-2-3 split originally but didn't think she would go for it. We talk about how that's not her choice and is really the fairest way for both the kids+parents. He challenged me to go home and talk to her about it. Well I am proud to say I did it and she agreed to it. This will be so nice and I have to say I am excited about it. During our divorce I took the kids Thursday through Sunday and never went out during the weekend while she got to do whatever she wanted. I really am excited that I will actually get every other weekend free to do some GAL activities.
Last Saturday I had my first flight lesson since July! I was so excited about it. It was the first 2 hour block of time that I haven't thought about my W. My instructor was really awesome and knows I am going through a lot. He was very complimentary and told me I was born to fly. I picked back up on everything - slow flight, stalls, steep turns, landings, etc.. without a hitch! He was very impressed. I am scheduled every saturday until Feb with him to continue working on my pilot license! Very excited about that!
Now I need to get some more GAL activities.. I am going to try to reconnect with old friends/family to see how everybody is doing. I am hoping that is going to help me to detach (which I am struggling with horribly) I promise I will write more on the forums... Its helping quite a bit just letting all this out.
Last Saturday I had my first flight lesson since July! I was so excited about it. It was the first 2 hour block of time that I haven't thought about my W. My instructor was really awesome and knows I am going through a lot. He was very complimentary and told me I was born to fly. I picked back up on everything - slow flight, stalls, steep turns, landings, etc.. without a hitch! He was very impressed. I am scheduled every saturday until Feb with him to continue working on my pilot license! Very excited about that!
matw,
That's awesome! I started flying when I was 16 and I remember that being in the airplane alone (once I started flying solo), I always felt so much freedom. As long as I had fuel, I was free to roam the skies; no cops to pull me over for speeding. That was such a great feeling. I was Jonathan Livingston Seagull.
matw,
That's awesome! I started flying when I was 16 and I remember that being in the airplane alone (once I started flying solo), I always felt so much freedom. As long as I had fuel, I was free to roam the skies; no cops to pull me over for speeding. That was such a great feeling. I was Jonathan Livingston Seagull.
Yeah I a excited to do my first solo. My instructor thinks I will be ready in about 5 more lessons for that! I am so excited but also really nervous about it. My goal is to have my license by next spring so I can spend the summer flying!
journaling...
So I am having an extremely hard time today... Knowing my W is in the progress of moving all of her stuff out of our home and into her apartment today is killing me... I am thinking of stupid things that come to my mind -
like she probably won't take any of our wedding pictures but will leave them for me to look at
is she leaving her wedding dress at our house or taking? (right now its been in our daughters closet)
Is she taking the vibrators I bought for her (What would I do with it???) I just keep thinking of her using them with someone else
All the decorations at our house are usually her doing and now nothing is going to be there... (like Halloween, fall, Christmas, etc..)
A ton more random things just flying through my head. I haven't been able to concentrate at work all day. I feel like screaming, crying, hitting something, etc... I know this is where detachment comes in to play. I am the first to admit I am not there at all.
This [censored]...... I know eventually I will get stronger and when she is out of the house completely it may get easier... Just not happening today.
This [censored]...... I know eventually I will get stronger and when she is out of the house completely it may get easier... Just not happening today.
It will. If your experience will be anything like mine expect a combination of randomness and thoroughness. Certain things that would have reminded my W of happier times were left as was her wedding dress. Other things just didn't make sense like her leaving 3 pairs of shoes out of the dozens that she had.
It was frustrating but also funny because for weeks I'd be looking for something like the good kitchen scissors and they wouldn't be there, but both can openers were.
Oh - and pick up take-away food for dinner tonight. My fridge was one of the victims, again, both random and thorough. I still have a can of Cherry Coke that W loves sitting in there (you can't get it in Canada).
With her gone though you can start making the house your own. I was originally tempted to go nuts and start throwing stuff out, re-arranging etc but found it draining. I've taken it one step at a time and slowly reclaimed almost all of the house now.
With her gone though you can start making the house your own. I was originally tempted to go nuts and start throwing stuff out, re-arranging etc but found it draining. I've taken it one step at a time and slowly reclaimed almost all of the house now.
This is a good idea and what I need to do. Its funny because when we were divorced I bought this house and lived in it for a couple of years by myself and my son's. I loved it and enjoyed it because it was my house. Now that we have lived together in it for 6 years and its the only house my daughter knows it feels strange now. Like it will never be my house again but a reminder of the last six years. Its silly to think like that especially today of all days. I know with time and effort I will turn it back into the house I enjoyed and want to be in.
Yeah I a excited to do my first solo. My instructor thinks I will be ready in about 5 more lessons for that! I am so excited but also really nervous about it. My goal is to have my license by next spring so I can spend the summer flying!
I was excited and nervous about my first solo, but as soon as I started down the runway on my first solo flight, it was as if my instructor was sitting next to me scolding me for my little transgressions. I've talked to other pilots and they said they had the same experience. You'll do great as long as you don't practice your stalls on takeoff.
When I soloed, I didn't know about the ritual of cutting a square out of the back of your shirt to commemorate the occasion. Back then, I rode motorcycle and my shirt had a streak of chain oil up the back. As it turned out, it was a great keepsake that reminds me of the solo flight as well as my beloved bike.
So I am having an extremely hard time today... Knowing my W is in the progress of moving all of her stuff out of our home and into her apartment today is killing me... I am thinking of stupid things that come to my mind -
I had a hard time with the move-out as well, but within just a couple of days I realized how much better it was when she was gone. I wasn't expecting that. Maybe you'll have the same experience.
Just happened to catch the words "first solo" while scanning your thread which of course caught my eye. I got my private back in 1991 (crap I feel old) and my instrument the following year. I've got just north of 1,000 hours. For a variety of reasons I had to sell my quarter share in my Cirrus SR22 about five years ago. No medical at the current time. Hmmmm maybe that's why I have not had a lot of dates lately? Nothing impresses more than a first or early date flying some place for dinner.
Keep at it and let us know when you solo. It's cool as heck but slightly anticlimactic as the years go by - at least it was for me, then again it was 25 years ago. Nothing cooler at the time though!
Are you still flying Doodler? Did you ever get your ticket or just get through solo? Many, many start but are not able to finish - mostly due to time or money or both.
No better GAL than flying lessons!
Don,
Yes, I got my license in 1981 when I was working as an aircraft mechanic for an FBO. As an employee, I was able to rent a Tomahawk for $18 per hour wet.
Wow, you're even older than me. Lol. I think I paid $37/hour for the C-152 trainer plus instructor. The last time I looked at rental rates OMG. I bought into a C-172 a month after taking my check ride and flew over 700 hours in that over about 15 years. That's where the great memories are including second date with ex w and trips with the family before the kids got older and put us over weight.
.
Waiting for the new 3rd class medical reform to take effect and then hope to get back in the air. Problem is, after flying the SR22, it's hard to go back to something else - although at about $225-$275 an hour rental rates...
Sorry for the thread hijack!
Don,
Yes, I got my license in 1981 when I was working as an aircraft mechanic for an FBO. As an employee, I was able to rent a Tomahawk for $18 per hour wet.
I was born in 1980.
Sorry also for the hijack, but I just had to point that out.
Hey DonH and Doodler I love reading about how people got into flying and what they are doing it with it now. I have always wanted to learn how to fly so last spring I went on a discovery flight at KAPA and was hooked. I started my lessons the next week. Had to stop though in July because it was looking that the W and I would be buying another house. Now that we aren't doing that and we are separating I decided to get back up in the air. Pretty excited for tomorrows lesson which will be in a Piper Archer. I have only flown in 172's so going to a low wing should be a lot of fun. I can't wait until I solo and eventually get my license. I am really looking forward to some of the cross country flying.
journaling...
So my W moved a lot of her stuff to her apartment and will be finishing up on Saturday. So tonight will be her last night sleeping in my house. I will have the kids the rest of the weekend and then they will go over to W apartment Monday and Tuesday.
My W wants to go back to school to become an addition counselor and found out last night she got accepted. I told her congrats and we talked about how she is going to be really busy starting in Jan with School, Work, and the kids. Other than that we talked about the logistics of moving the rest of her stuff and what she would be keeping here. She asked me if I wanted to see he apartment and I told her yes I would like to see where our kids will be.
So a thing I continue to have an issue with is the wedding ring.. I plan on wearing mine unless we do get a divorce then once that is final I will take it off and give it to her. I had asked her if she wants to continue to wear hers and she said yes we are still married. I have just noticed that she is always forgetting to put it back on after showers/the gym/doing dishes. When I see it off her finger I freak out and ask her where her ring is. I know its not good to continue to do that and need to change that habit. She told me today that every time I ask her about the ring it makes her not want to wear it. When she said that I realized she is looking for an excuse to stop wearing it. I need to realize it will mean a lot more if she wears it by her own choice and if she doesn't then I know how she feels about our marriage. Again why detaching is so important and why I read all the vets giving that advice over and over again.
Don,
Yes, I got my license in 1981 when I was working as an aircraft mechanic for an FBO. As an employee, I was able to rent a Tomahawk for $18 per hour wet.
I was born in 1980.
Sorry also for the hijack, but I just had to point that out.
Hijack away! I enjoy reading everybody's comments and helps to keep my mind away from my W.
journaling...
On Saturday I went up and had my flying lesson which I always look forward to. I am so excited to be able to continue my flying lessons and getting back on track with that. It really is 2 hours that I don't think about my sitch or and just have a lot of fun.
Also on Saturday my W moved all her stuff to her apartment and spent her first night there. I really thought it would be hard for me but it wasn't. I was strangely relaxed and able to spend some good quality time with my kids. We had a lot of fun playing video games and hanging out. I was worried that I would be depressed especially after I found out she was going downtown with a friend do some bar hopping. I realized it doesn't matter what she does anymore. I can only control myself. I guess I am getting sick of letting her be my only thoughts. I actually have a pretty good life with or without her.
On Sunday we did meet up to go grocery shopping together. We did this just because we are doing the 2-2-3 split so I will be responsible for the kids school lunches and what not. Also we meal prep everything on Sunday for the week since we are both into fitness. She normally did the shopping and I just wanted to make sure I got everything we normally do. So we did all that then went back to my house to cook our meals. Then she went to her apartment and I had the kids to myself again. Again a lot easier once she was gone.
So it appears that our in house situation wasn't working very well. Now that she has moved to the apartment I think this is will work a lot better for us. I became so dependent on my W that I lost who I was. I need to be alone for awhile to get back to the person she married twice. Also I need a bit of space to figure out what I want. Its also going to be a good time to work on my boundaries and what I am going to put up with. I was failing at that miserably I think because I was hoping for whatever reason she was going to change her mind.
Tonight will be the test because its the first night I will be at home without the kids. I plan on going to the gym and then back home to do some cleaning. I need to empty out my closet of all my old clothes. I have lost about 60lbs since April and need to make room for new clothes. I want to get all my old clothes ready and donate them to Goodwill. I plan on keeping myself busy and doing things I don't normally do when my W was living with me.
Also on Saturday my W moved all her stuff to her apartment and spent her first night there. I really thought it would be hard for me but it wasn't. I was strangely relaxed and able to spend some good quality time with my kids.
matw,
I had the same experience when my W moved out; it was totally unexpected.
With regard to flying, I have a correction to make to one of my previous posts. The Tomahawk was only $12 per hour (in 1981), not $18 per hour. Of course, that was the employee rate. I paid $18 per hour for a Cessna 150 way back in 1976. I've forgotten what I had to pay for the instructor back then. And, my pilot's license was printed on heavy paper/thin cardboard; it didn't have a picture on it like they do now.
And, navigation was VOR, RDF (yuck) or compass (i.e. highways and railroad tracks). There wasn't any of that newfangled GPS stuff (at least not in private aviation). Some people were using LORAN.
I knew that Ginger was the perfect age for me. I just have to convince her to move within 20 minutes of where I live. Hmmm...
Also on Saturday my W moved all her stuff to her apartment and spent her first night there. I really thought it would be hard for me but it wasn't. I was strangely relaxed and able to spend some good quality time with my kids.
matw,
I had the same experience when my W moved out; it was totally unexpected.
With regard to flying, I have a correction to make to one of my previous posts. The Tomahawk was only $12 per hour (in 1981), not $18 per hour. Of course, that was the employee rate. I paid $18 per hour for a Cessna 150 way back in 1976. I've forgotten what I had to pay for the instructor back then. And, my pilot's license was printed on heavy paper/thin cardboard; it didn't have a picture on it like they do now.
And, navigation was VOR, RDF (yuck) or compass (i.e. highways and railroad tracks). There wasn't any of that newfangled GPS stuff (at least not in private aviation). Some people were using LORAN.
I knew that Ginger was the perfect age for me. I just have to convince her to move within 20 minutes of where I live. Hmmm...
Yeah I am not sure if its out of sight out of mind.. Or if maybe it because I don't feel I have to walk on egg shells. I can really start concentrating on myself. I am beginning to appreciate that a separation in different houses is better than an in house separation.
Yeah I pay around $100 to $135 per hour depending on what plane I choose(plus an additional $50 per hour for instructor) Usually I do the 172N model but sometimes I spoil myself with a S model. Flew a G1000 eqiuped 172 once which was really awesome! On Saturday I went up in a Piper Archer II for the first time. I think I like the 172's a little more.. I have always thought the Pipers look cooler though so I am going to take it up a few more times to get a little more comfortable in them.
I think I like the 172's a little more.. I have always thought the Pipers look cooler though so I am going to take it up a few more times to get a little more comfortable in them.
matw,
I agree, the low wing Pipers look better than the Cessnas, but I always preferred the Cessna stall characteristics. And the downward view is better in the Cessna. I did fly a Piper Tripacer a few times; it has a high wing (it's a fabric covered plane). It didn't really have a good clean and definitive stall. When you'd do a full power stall it would just do a stair-step kind of thing and never fully break. It was weird but kind of fun; just stay on the rudder pedals and bob around the sky.
Okay one more aviation story, perhaps two. The first plane I owned was a 172M with an STC for auto fuel. We charged ourselves $21/hour to fly wet which is how I got my instrument. I flew that thing all over the Midwest including with ExW and kids. Had Loran and basic IFR which I actually shot several ILS to minimums in actual (200 foot ceiling and 0.5 vis). I think we were up to $35/hour when I sold out for about $4,000 more than I paid in. It was some of the most cost effective flying and best times of my life. Then I bought into the Cirrus SR22. It had it all - IFR certified GPS, datalink radar, storm scope, moving map, synthetic vision and full auto pilot. Plus of course the parachute for the plane. although it would fly itself on a coupled approach to minimums I never did it in actual nor much actual IFR. I did fly a couple 100 hours in it though. We charged ourselves $85/hour, only problem is when I sold out out three years later instead of a 40% increase I lost nearly $5,000 on my share. I loved both planes at the time. Thing is, I just don't think I could go back to a bare bones 172 at about 125 mph after flying 210 mph plus with all of the bells and whistles of the SR22. But, the costs have really gotten up there.
Which brings me to the even better story of how I got my license for free. So I was 28 when I started flying. I may have been able to afford what then was about $4K to get a license but I just could not justify it. However, what I am great at is the art of the deal. I was chief engineer of an AM radio station that happened to be the producer of a nation syndicated radio show called Aviation Today. They were bought by the origional Flight Training Magazine, now published by AOPA. I also owned and still do own a recording studio. Among other things, we did jingles, commercials, production, etc. Sooooo I proposed that I create and provide their show theme and jingles, as well as provide other studio services. They would give a flying school free commercials on the radio show, and the school would then give me free flight training. It worked! While I had to hire some musicians, etc, fir the jingle, I did most of the work myself and it was still a great deal. And that's how I got my pilots license "for free."
Damn, I want to get back in the air. That needs to happen one of these years. V, the lady from 10 hours away that I'd love to date more was working on her license a few years ago but has not yet finished. I so hope God has a plan here.
I so hope God has a plan here.
Don,
God has been telling you to pick up the phone and call V and tell her that you'd like to ride her in a plane. You can hope or you can take action.
Guys I am loving all the airplane stories. I am so excited to continue working on my pilots license. I schedule my flights every Saturday and look forward to it all week. Yeah its a bit steep now a days to go flying and I think to get my private will cost me right around 10 to 12k depending on how I continue to do. I eventually want to get IFR and Commercial rated. I would love to become an instructor as well. Its such a fun(expensive) hobby!
journaling...
So last night was my first night alone in the house. My kids were with my W in her new apartment. It was a little bit harder than the previous two nights when I had the kids but wasn't unbearable.
One strange thing that did happen was my W does a lot of work from home and needs the internet. Well at her apartment they messed up the install and left her without internet. I offered her to go to the house and work there if she wanted. She did and when I got home it I realized she had done a lot of cleaning, dishes, and the laundry. I am assuming mostly out of habit she is did that but it seemed strange that she did. They fixed her internet yesterday so she won't be coming back over to the house anytime soon.
Anyways when I got home and was planning on doing everything she already did I was pleasantly surprised. I got ready for the gym and went over to get my workout in. When I got home it was really quiet in the house. I am used to two boys (9 and 10) plus a little girl (age 3) running around playing. So I think that got to me a little bit. SO make myself dinner and packed my gym bag for an early workout the next morning. Then I went upstairs and laid down in bed watching some Netflix.
I am talking the W only a little bit and usually its when my kids call me that she will get on the phone and chat with me. We really don't talk about anything important just how the kids are doing and stuff like that. I try to make sure I am not the one to initiate contact and will end it first if I can. So I will just keep going one day at a time and see where this takes us.
So last night I wasn't sure what I was going to do. I missed my kids and really didn't want to go home to an empty house. I then decided I would go to a kickboxing class. I used to really be into kickboxing even doing a fight a couple of years ago. I decided to stop back in April so I could concentrate on lifting weights and losing some lbs. I have really been missing my trainers and everybody that does the kickboxing. So I said screw it and went to a class last night. Oh I haven't sweated like that in a long while! Sore today and this is from a guy that lifts weights 6 days a week.
Another funny little thing is I took my wedding ring off while I was there and accidentally left it behind. Now my W isn't wearing hers right now but I told myself I would keep mine on until we decide if we are going to divorce. It feels strange not having it on right now and will go get it today after work. Part of me wants to keep it off.. but a bigger part wants me to keep it on because I did make a vow to her. If we do end up getting a divorce on the day that it becomes final will be the day I stop wearing my ring.
So I did make a little mistake this morning and did a little pursuing behavior. Texted her some small talk and nothing really important. I immediately regretted it after I texted her because I am trying to go dim. I guess I was just feeling a little lonely this morning not having the kids or her to talk to. I need to work on taking a deep breath and not giving into my emotions like that.
I am excited I get my kids tonight and will have them until Friday night. I really do see myself being a great father and they are the most important thing in this world to me. When they are with my W they constantly text and call me to talk. When they are with me the hardly ever text/call their mother. She has a hard time relating to the kids and goes back to her ability to develop deep relationships. I know it makes her angry/jealous but my therapist told me to tell her when she brings it up - I am the go to parent right now but it doesn't always have to be that way. What are you going to do about it? In the past she has told me they only like me better because I let them do whatever they want then she changes her story and tells me its because they respect me. I can assure you that I do not let them do whatever they want and I am actually pretty hard on them.
So I made a couple of mistakes yesterday... This is going to sound really stupid and I realize I shouldn't have done it. Anyways on Facebook my W had her profile pic of the two of us after working out. I always took a little comfort knowing it was on there and usually the first thing people see when they look at my W in Facebook. Anyways she changed it yesterday to a picture of our kids. Of course I start freaking out and not being able to handle it (told you this was stupid) and text her saying those are some nice pictures you changed your profile to. She said thanks and we start having a little small talk via text for awhile. Nothing serious but feels really forced. Anyways I felt horrible for allowing it to bother me and even more that I texted her... So I realize I have a lot of work to do.
So last night was awesome. I had my kids and we just hung out. I love my kids so much and don't know what I would do without them. You can tell the separation is taking a toll on them but they are being strong and understanding. Hardest part is my D3 always asking where is mommy? And having to explain that Mommy lives in her apartment now. We do a modified 2-2-3 so I have them for the next 3 days and then they are off to the W for the Weekend.
This morning my W calls me when I am on my way to work. Originally it was about bills that our going to be coming out of our joint account. Then we continued just chatting about things for about a half hour. No real serious talk or anything R wise. Just what she is going to do with our boys this weekend and how her job is going. It wasn't all that important but it felt good to talk to her. I made sure I didn't ask her what she did last night or anything. I did ask if she wanted to hang out on Sunday which was pursuing and I need to stop that. I have to wait for her to ask me if I want to hang out with her.
So another thing that has been on my mind lately is do I want this marriage to come back together?? Everybody that is close to me is telling me I should just be done with it. Especially since we already did this before via the first divorce and separation for 3 years. Now emotionally I do want this marriage to get back together and am willing to work on it. On the other hand I have to wonder will this keep happening if we did get back together.. is she capable of being in a long term relationship with me? I do know that right now I am not ready to give up on it and that's shown to me by how much I have not detached. We never know what the future holds... I guess I just need to continue one day at a time.
Another thing that I have been thinking about is something my therapist told me...
ME: I am so worried about being alone
Therapist: No your not.. your worried about not being with your Wife. There is a difference.
That sort of hit home with me... Am I that addicted/co-dependent/emeshed with her that I would rather be a doormat for her rather than work on myself and eventually find a women who appreciates me.
Its amazing all the thoughts that run through your head.. a year ago if you told me I would be separated from my W and going through this again I would have laughed at you. And here I am again...
Am I that addicted/co-dependent/emeshed with her that I would rather be a doormat for her rather than work on myself and eventually find a women who appreciates me.
matw,
I don't know the answer to your question, but I can tell you that when I reflect on what transpired in my own situation I often get angry. A lot of the anger is anger directed toward myself; it embarases me that I allowed my WW to walk all over me for so long. Is that codependence or just fear of the unknown? I don't know, but there's no question that I needed to grow a pair.
Hey doodler,
Your right I really need to grow a pair as well. It amazes me how much I let her walk over me out of fear/being alone/etc... It sort of feeds off itself. I need to continue working on myself and learn to be happy with myself. I have given her so much power over me that I could literally laugh (then cry lol). I need to realize the woman I knew is gone and our marriage is no more. No matter what I do right now will ever bring that back. I might as well start doing things for myself and being happy.
It seems to me that every mistake you make is b/c of your dependency on the MR.
Have a question for you......does this schedule with the kids show you having them on weekends most of the time?
It seems to me that every mistake you make is b/c of your dependency on the MR.
Have a question for you......does this schedule with the kids show you having them on weekends most of the time?
Its actually funny you mentioned that Sandi.. When I first came up with the schedule it did have me having them most of the weekend then every other Saturday off. Well discussed that with my therapist and he said that isn't fair to you. She asked for this and needs to step up with the kids. I told him I wanted to do a 2-2-3 split but wasn't sure how she would react.. He said - Who cares how she reacts? Its not about that. She asked for this.. She is separating from you. He challenged me to go home that night and tell her we are going to do the 2-2-3 split. While I didn't do it that night I did tell her the next day that was how we were going to handle it. So now she has them every other weekend. Also surprisingly she didn't get mad or angry. She agreed it was fair and worked for both of us.
So you are right... my first instinct was to be a doormat but luckily I had a therapist who talked me out of it. He wants me to get to a place that I won't be there for her all the time. He echo's pretty much everything you have said. I am way to dependent on the MR and realize it.
So this past weekend was my first weekend with out my kids in the house. On Friday the W and I had to take our D3 to the dentist because she needed to have some work done on her back molar. My D3 isn't the best patient for anything and we agreed it would be best if we were both there. So after the dentist we went back to my house to the W could check out the new Call of Duty game (we used to play it quite a bit together). Then she had to go to work.
On Saturday I went to the gym and didn't do a whole lot until the evening. Then I went out to a local bar with some friends. I will say some interesting things happened while I was there. I ended up flirting with 2 different girls there just for fun. I am in no way wanting a relationship or anything. It was just sort of interesting to see. I have lost 60+ lbs since the spring so I am not used to the attention that I was getting. I normally only went out with my W and never usually by myself. I will admit it felt really good.. one of the girls even took my phone to put her number in. I deleted it later that night because no reason for me to keep it.
It also made me realize that no matter what.. even if my relationship with my W does fully end I will be OK. A lot of my self talk has been that I don't want to end up alone. I now realize that is just a lot of fear talking. I will only end up where I choose to end up. I make the choices and am responsible for myself.
On Sunday I did go swimming with the W and kids. Then went over to her house for awhile to hang out. After doing that though I decided I have to stop doing that. I realize I am making it easier for her when she has the kids. She gets easily frustrated with them and for some reason I feel its my job to help. So I am making it a goal not to offer to hang out or anything that would take away from her having to be the parent when its her time.
After leaving my W apartment I went home and did fall into a little bit of a depression.. It was strange being alone in my house. I ended up just laying on the couch watching movies. Again this was me letting myself feel that way. I have plenty of projects around the house that I could be working on and should have done. I need to make sure that I get up and start doing them. I have a long road ahead of me and will have plenty of nights where I don't have a GAL and will be alone. What I choose to do with that time is up to me.
I have plenty of projects around the house that I could be working on and should have done. I need to make sure that I get up and start doing them. I have a long road ahead of me and will have plenty of nights where I don't have a GAL and will be alone. What I choose to do with that time is up to me.
matw,
I've found that I'm much better doing outdoor projects than indoor projects. I can stay outdoors from dusk to dawn, but indoor projects are a lot harder for me. The one thing I've found that really helps is to turn a project into a creative endeavor. For example, if I need to paint a room, I don't look at it as a task to be completed, instead the task is to make it so interesting and different that the room can become a showpiece. Try venetian plaster instead of paint. Use different colors of metallic paint. There's all sorts of stuff that can be done. But, the routine stuff doesn't get me off my @ss, the creative stuff does get me going.
I don't know if that approach will help you, but it's made a lot of difference for me. And, as a bonus, when people see your house and they start complimenting you, then things get kicked into high gear (and your WW may notice as well).
On Sunday I did go swimming with the W and kids. Then went over to her house for awhile to hang out. After doing that though I decided I have to stop doing that. I realize I am making it easier for her when she has the kids. She gets easily frustrated with them and for some reason I feel its my job to help. So I am making it a goal not to offer to hang out or anything that would take away from her having to be the parent when its her time.
Not only that, it is a way to keep you emotional dependent on the relationship. She needs to experience the picture of divorce. If you were divorce, would you being going inside her place and hanging out? One of the biggest traps to beware of while going through this part is doing things "as a family". That is eating cake, and does not show her how divorce looks. Divorce does bring a family together, it tears them apart.
It is not your job to take care of the things that cause her frustration. Don't be her free handyman around the house, and don't be an easy babysitter at the last minute. If she needs a sitter, she should call well in advance, otherwise, you have plans.
So, what are you doing in your spare time without the kids? What do you do for inspiration?
It also made me realize that no matter what.. even if my relationship with my W does fully end I will be OK. A lot of my self talk has been that I don't want to end up alone. I now realize that is just a lot of fear talking. I will only end up where I choose to end up. I make the choices and am responsible for myself.
Be your own best friend when you self talk.......or in anything else. Don't speak in negatives. Talk positively like you would encourage you buddy. Do you like listening to motivational tapes? Maybe research for tapes, book, etc., for self-affirmation
After leaving my W apartment I went home and did fall into a little bit of a depression.. It was strange being alone in my house.
Preplan around those times you feel are the loneliest. For example, when the kids first leave or you are walking into an empty house. For some people it's when they first get up in the mornings. Break routine, play music that gets you pumping, whatever works. Have something waiting that is fun, a game, movie, something to cook or eat, someone to call, a great book to read......just something to break the feeling of being lonely.
You are going to make it through to the other side. You will be a better man, when this is over, and you will like who you've become.
matw,
I've found that I'm much better doing outdoor projects than indoor projects. I can stay outdoors from dusk to dawn, but indoor projects are a lot harder for me. The one thing I've found that really helps is to turn a project into a creative endeavor. For example, if I need to paint a room, I don't look at it as a task to be completed, instead the task is to make it so interesting and different that the room can become a showpiece. Try venetian plaster instead of paint. Use different colors of metallic paint. There's all sorts of stuff that can be done. But, the routine stuff doesn't get me off my @ss, the creative stuff does get me going.
I don't know if that approach will help you, but it's made a lot of difference for me. And, as a bonus, when people see your house and they start complimenting you, then things get kicked into high gear (and your WW may notice as well).
Hey Doodler,
Yeah I wish I was more handy like that and should probably at least try doing something. There are a few projects that I can work on... I have a huge amount of tile floors and counter tops that could use the grout cleaned. Maybe I will start doing that because it will keep me busy for a while!
Not only that, it is a way to keep you emotional dependent on the relationship. She needs to experience the picture of divorce. If you were divorce, would you being going inside her place and hanging out? One of the biggest traps to beware of while going through this part is doing things "as a family". That is eating cake, and does not show her how divorce looks. Divorce does bring a family together, it tears them apart.
It is not your job to take care of the things that cause her frustration. Don't be her free handyman around the house, and don't be an easy babysitter at the last minute. If she needs a sitter, she should call well in advance, otherwise, you have plans.
So, what are you doing in your spare time without the kids? What do you do for inspiration?
Hey Sandi - yeah this is the part I struggle with. I need to make sure I am not going over there and helping her. She really does need to feel the pain of what it will be like if I am not there. When we were divorced the first time I used to go over and help her a lot. I am realizing though it took over 3 years for us to get back together. I don't want to do that again. My life was put on hold for way to long.
As for the self talk I need am slowly catching myself when I am talking down or talking in negative. When I do catch myself I am switching that to a positive and seeing what I can find.
I like the idea of preplanning for when I am the lonely at home. I think it was just hard because it was Sunday night and was the first one without anybody in the house. There is plenty I could do and I have a pretty good support system if I need to reach out to anybody. I think with time I will be more willing/able to handle being alone in the house. I used to have a lot of little hobbies that I don't do anymore that I think I will get back into. It keeps me busy and is a lot of fun. My W always used to give me crap for never staying with one hobby. Now I don't have to worry about her I will go back to doing those. As always thanks for the great advice and I really do appreciate it.
So the last few days have been decent and I am continuing to work on myself. I am trying to detach more and more everyday and hopefully getting to a point that I am not affected by my W actions.
So on Thanksgiving my W had to work. She works at the at the front desk and they were giving her time and half for working the holidays. She had the kids Wed night and took them to the gym with her (they have daycare). So I went to the gym, worked out, then took the kids home with me. When I talked to the W I kept it light didn't really say a whole lot to her. Later in the day I took my kids to my parents house for Thanksgiving dinner where my W met us. Again we all talked and had fun with no serious conversations. My W had the kids Thursday night so they left after a few hours and I went home.
On Friday my W called and asked if she could bring her comforter over to the house to wash it. She had spilled coffee and wouldn't fit in her washer at her apartment. I told her that was OK. I was already planning on taking the kids to see Trolls and wasn't going to be home. So she came over with the kids and we left shortly after to see the movie. It was a great movie and my kids really enjoyed it. Then back home to spend the rest of the day with the kids.
On Saturday I went to the gym in the morning and again saw the W. Talked to her for a little bit(she was working). After getting my kids from my parents(they were watching them while I worked out) I decided to go support a our mortgage broker friend and our realtor friend her where doing a Small Business Meet and greet. These two ladies know our story (the mortgage broker is really good friends with my W). They were both very helpful this past summer when my W and I were looking at buying a new house (back when we were getting along great and before the I need space now). It was fun talking to them and supporting them. After visiting with them I took the kids to the local Jr High so I could do some HIIT cardio (Sprint the straights walk the corners). Then back home for some quality time with my kids.
On Sunday I got a bit of shock seeing my W posting some pictures of her going out with her step sister on FB. If I am honest with myself I will say it affected me but not as much as it would have a few weeks ago. So I am seeing a little progress on the detachment stand point. Other than that spent most of the day with my kids playing and having fun. Took off to the gym at 2pm to lift with a friend.
Overall it was a pretty good few days. I am finding myself getting a little stronger every day. There are still things that bother me and I find myself obsessing about but I am trying to push past them. Slowly I am realizing that no matter what I will be ok. Some of the true tests will be this week when I don't have the kids. I am taking Sandi's advice and have plans for what I will do to fill my time. That way I don't act out of loneliness or hit a bad spot emotionally.
Tonight I am planning on doing some cardio after work then going home to just rest and relax. Tomorrow night I will go to a kickboxing class and hang out with my friends there. I need to get some GAL activities ready for this weekend and will be trying to plan that during the week.
So one thing that has been really bothering me and I don't know why. We got the our S10 and S9 a cell phone they can share so they can text or call us whenever they want. We wanted them to have the freedom to reach out to either parent no matter what. So when the kids are with my W they are consistently texting/calling me. Just to talk, tell me the miss me, etc... When the kids are with me they never hear from my W. She hardly ever texts them to see how they are doing and if they text her she gives pretty short answers. Now this is a lady who consistently texts her friends so she uses texts a lot.
Like I said I don't know why it bothers me. The kids did tell me they do miss their mom and wish she would talk to them more. I know I can't control her and am not going to bring it up to her. I am just going to continue being there for them and that's really all I can do. The separation has been hard on my boys especially my S9 so I would rather be to available for them then not enough.
So my W just emailed me at work to let me know what her school schedule is going to be for next semester. Then she writes in there that is wondering if we could get together to grab a bite and talk about stuff. Of course my mind is racing and I am assuming its probably not going to be good news. Not really sure how to respond to her.... Oh this [censored].
matw,
You can ask her if it's going to be a quickie. If she answers in an angry tone because of the sexual intent, then tell her you just wanted to know if it was a quick bite to eat and brief discussion. If she hints around that maybe doing the naughty thing is a possibility, then you know things might be better (or she wants something). So, there's the perfect temp-check.
Disclaimer: I'm the absolute worst DBer in the universe, but right now I could use a quickie.
Hey Doodler,
That's a good idea! Well who couldn't use a quickie right now??
Anyways she said it was urgent and could wait until this weekend. So I am thinking its a few things.. and again this is just my mind racing. She either has a boyfriend & wants a divorce, just wants a divorce, or wants me to give her more money. Again just trying to see the future and mind reading.. I just really don't think it will be good news at all and more than likely something like those options. I know I just need to remain calm and see what happens. I just hate when people say we need to talk and won't do it for a couple of days. Just pisses me off.