Hello Everyone,
I've been lurking around these forums for the past couple of weeks just soaking in as much information I can to try and figure out what the hell happened to my life. I'm not even sure what I'm looking for here, but I just wanted to share my story.
I met my wife 8 years ago through a good friend that was working with her at the time and ended up dating for 4 years before getting married. I wouldn't have called us the most perfect couple on the planet, as we were never really as intimate as I think either of us would have liked, but we rarely fought and were best friends. We started living together about 2 years in and as far as I knew, we had good relationships with our respective families. Before getting married, we survived my getting an MBA at night while working, and both of us had very successful careers.
Right after we got married, we purchased a home from my family in a nice neighborhood, but with all sorts of issues that needed to be addressed before the place was really livable from a family perspective. It had been a rental for 10 years and was in dire need of anything you could name. I pretty much dropped everything non-wife or house related to work on making our home more habitable. At the same time the W was gaining traction as an "office lead" for a newly opened office for a very well known tech company. So while I was fixing up the house, the W was working 60-80 hour weeks and starting to build herself a very successful career, which involved setting up events both in and outside the office and determining the day to day operations. I should mention now that she absolutely loves her job. On the other hand, I took a chance on a career change that was what I always wanted to do, but was with an utterly miserable company. We were making decent money, but nothing exorbitant at the time.
Fast forward 2 years. I am now feeling completely overwhelmed by the amount of time and effort that I am putting into our home, I am legitimately doing the job of 2 people at work and not getting any recognition for it and I am quickly becoming a nervous wreck of a human being...which I decide to hide as well as a can. I start drinking more, stop exercising as much and start to become sort of withdrawn and lonely with the W gone all the time. In the meantime, the small office that the W works for has expanded from 10 to 300 people and the W has cemented herself within the office culture, while still working 60-80 hour weeks...sometimes while working at home. At this point we are making a ridiculous amount of money and this is where I'm pretty sure things started to go wrong.
As we earned more and more money, the W justified that more and more things could be paid for rather than physically doing them ourselves. In theory I really had no problem with this, but the reality is that this made it easier for her to spend more and more time at work. I should mention that "work" entailed planning happy hours/dinners/concerts/shows for a variety of people and that she could go to any of these if she pleased. I should also mention that no matter how hard I tried, I really couldn't have the same connection with her co-workers as she did...seeing that I a) didn't work with them, b) lost the desire to go out 3 nights a week in my mid 20's, and c) still liked and wanted to spend time with my existing friends. At this point, we really aren't sharing any activities together at all other than the occasional weekend trip or night out for dinner.
I should also mention that the W sort of has a history of over-committing herself in all sorts of different ways. For years, she was on a bike team that pretty much demanded 4 hours a day on sat/sun and night training during the week. She set up book clubs, reunions with college friends, dinner parties with couples friends...I frankly still have no idea how she did all this. For years, I did many of these things with her, but as time went on, I found myself either too busy with our home, or with no desire to have this many things on my plate. I never saw my W and it was beginning to wear on me to the point where arguments started over responsibilities around the house and in our relationship. I should mention that while the W has always been "social", we were not the type of couple that was out every single night when we were dating...or even in the first year of our marriage.
About two years ago, the W proclaims that she is stopping birth control and wants to have a kid. I always wanted kids, but was a little surprised that there was not a little more discussion about it beforehand. That would be the last discussion about had about having children until the BD.
Also about two years ago, her work/social life really REALLY starts getting out of control. We're talking like 3-4 nights a week, out past midnight and as the months wear on I am getting more and more upset leading to an all out drag out fight and me sleeping in the other room for 4 nights. Her dad has an unrelated nervous breakdown the next weekend and we have to take him to the ER, then we end up making up. Only now her social scene was totally out of control and after the fight, I had nothing left in me to say anymore. She's spending the night at co-workers apartments, not coming home until 2am, not calling etc...
Bomb Drop - A year ago, I come home, she's crying...we all know what happened next. I move to other room, she claims she isn't moving out...she BD's me again a week later and says she's moving out in a week. I am absolutely devastated. I lose 15 lbs in the next month, panic attacks, crying etc. I convince her to go to counseling. W just blames, justifies, and validates...I cave on everything and we actually seem to be making progress.
3 months into this, I'm fixing something at the W's new place and am looking for aspirin. Instead, I find a prescription for herpes symptoms. It's from during our marriage and she has DEFINITELY never told me about this. I flip out, fight ensues, we talk about it in counseling and she spends the entire time blaming me for not knowing (?) and snooping. The next day I find out through the social networks that's she's booked a trip to Iceland with a mutual friend...and FOUR...SINGLE...MALE...COWORKERS (EA suspected). Three days later, I find out again the social networks, that she's booked a trip to climb Mt. Kilimanjaro with two other co-workers. I end counseling 2 weeks later and say that I need a break for a while.
I end up sleeping with someone after the new year. I'm devastated, filled with massive amounts of guilt, and end up telling the W. Wife BD's me again and says she's been sleeping with one of the coworkers that she went to Iceland with...he's TWENTY TWO. She's 34.
We're divorced now...I'm still devastated. They're still dating. She's been out of town for literally 105 days over the past year, she started taking flying lessons (really?), she moved onto a houseboat. She doesn't talk to any of her "old" friends...only people from work with an average age of 25.
I'm a little removed from this now, but I do need to say that I absolutely do love my W (now ex), so if it sounds like I wasn't or didn't try to stand, that is absolutely not the case. I'm just at a spot now where I'm just totally broken by this. I'm seeing the person that I ended up sleeping with several months ago, but I'm still so incredibly lost as to what the hell happened w/ my xW.
Anyway, should run b/c it's late on Friday. Wanted to share in case someone had a similar experience.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Consider this your homework.
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Thanks...
There's so...so much more, but I figured I'd rambled on long enough.
Easy ones:
-OM posting literally hundreds of pictures on FB before PA was confirmed (not joking)
-Finding out W had been calling me sexist/alcoholic/RAPIST/substance abuser
-W continuing to contact friends/family after boundaries were set
-that I loved our dog more than her
-...and on and on
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
cskone,
I'm sorry to see you here and read your story. I think it will be helpful for many to read, as so many people finding this site think if they just file for D it will end this ride and they can get back to normal.
I think you demonstrate well that the piece of paper doesn't change your feelings, and that almost 2 months after your D your just finding this site and looking for closure.
I will tell you what sticks out the most to me.
1. I don't think you are ready to be in a R, and I hope you really consider the situation you are bringing the new girl into.
2. You didn't have the luxury of DB principles for the last year when dealing with your sitch, but you didn't mention what have you done for yourself to improve yourself? (counseling, getting in shape, getting a life)
I hope you keep posting, there are quite a few post D posters on this site that have been there and can provide support.
Coconut...thanks for the response.
I don't think I'm anywhere near "ready" to be in a R with the new one. However, she's as informed as she can possibly be and frankly I'm not sure where I'd be without her. So yes, I really have considered what this is doing to her as well. As an aside, she was actually the OW in another marriage where the H went back to his wife...not justifying, but we've had this conversation, she knows how I feel, and we're open about what's happening. Still feel incredibly guilty from time to time.
I've been going to counseling since the very beginning of all of this, but I'm still having major problems in GAL. I got to keep the house, but it's so incredibly hard to be there by myself for any extended period of time. I've actually been more active in the past year than at any time since my mid-20's...hiking, mtb'ing, golfing. I am having major issues with getting out and meeting new people though...part of me has no desire to do so...part of me doesn't remember how to socialize without the xW considering she was so adept at setting that up for me. That, and all my friends are married with kids now...my entire social life w/ the xW consisted of her work events. I was really getting into drinking FAR more than was healthy, but I've recently got a handle on that, so that's been a positive thing.
The one thing that is really bugging me lately is that although I still desperately love and miss the xW, looking at who she is now and all that she's done...there's literally no way that I could ever justify being an acquaintance of her, let alone let her back into my life. Only, half of me wants that more than anything. Drives me nuts.
The other think that kills me is that our common friends really think that I'm the bad guy in all of this due to the xW trashing me at any opportunity. I think I did the right thing by cutting off contact w/ her family and better friends, but she definitely is still talking to mine. I know I can't and shouldn't ever try to control what other ppl think, but makes me sick all the same.
Ugh, I just can't believe how bad this all still [censored].
Just to follow Cadet's advice and to keep bumping this thread.
As I keep reading through all these posts I think the one that resonates with me the most are the one's from BluWave. A lot of what I'm writing below is basically what it seems she went through/is going through.
ex -
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2670289&page=1I didn't do much DB-ing early on due to far too much contact w/ the xW with helping her move, fixing up her houseboat, counseling. Although now, I sort of realize that much of what our counselor was trying to say mirrors a lot of the stuff on here. I was just so incredibly hard not to pester her for answers...that I now know she didn't even know the answer to. I was focusing on every move she made and trying to read into every interaction, text, what she was doing and why,
What worries me possibly the most is the idea that I do still want some sort of relationship with the xW even after the divorce, but I have no idea what that means. I definitely still love her...and at times the missing her presence is absolutely crushing. Mainly, I so terribly miss how I used to feel about her, but I keep remembering in my head that the xW is no longer that person. That marriage is over. I do not respect and feel any love towards my xW the way I did before this happened. Not at all. Some days I want pure revenge--I want her to come back just so I could be the one hurting her. Other days I just miss her. Some days I don't know what I am
I also can't seem to detach well enough to let even the smallest of slights in the past go. The raw emotions around acceptance and forgiveness takes a strength and confidence that I just cannot seem to keep in my grasp. Any trigger at all and very easily lapse back into sadness and rage. I will say this to anyone who just got the bomb dropped.
DO NOT enter into a collaborative divorce agreement, get your own lawyer...period. I suppose that's it's own post all together. The amount of animosity built between us during that process still gives me PTSD and probably will for a while.
Lastly, the other thing that I keep spinning on is for the life of me, I can't figure out whether the xW falls into MLC or WAW. Just the pure preposterousness of her life over the past year with the 22 year old OM, choosing to live on a houseboat (it's NOT nearly as romantic as it seems) flying lessons, spending nearly 1/3 of the year out of town, changing history...she even walked away from sharing our beloved golden retriever, whom she absolutely adored.
On the other hand, past when she found out I started seeing someone, there's been only one instance of temp checking on her behalf...and our only even remotely cordial communication comes in person of which occasions ceased once the divorce was final. Who knows, maybe her MLC turned her into a WAW after all the crap that went on between us
Any thoughts on this?
cskone - I'm not one of the vets and while perhaps your W is showing many of the signs I've read about to indicate a MLC it may not be the case here. It may be that she just got wrapped up in her work / the people and lifestyle there. It almost sounds like she's in advertising with how her work and work-life was progressing. That's a tough, high stress racket.
Depression is one of the key indicators that I've read about that goes along with a MLC. I'm not reading any indication of that in her case. But then it's difficult for me as a random person on the internet to really provide much insight into your situation.
The key thing that I'm reading here though is that you need to take care of yourself. Your W is on her own journey with an uncertain destination. You'll need to grieve the loss of your old MR and start rebuilding yourself. Are there some things you can let slide around the house to make some more time to get out with your old friends? To me it sounds like you are still running at a million miles an hour but feeling like you're going nowhere. Could you maybe take a few days or a week and just go away somewhere either by yourself or with your NG?
You'll get through this but first you need to slow down, take a good hard look at the man in the mirror and decide if you like that person. If you don't, then you'll know where to start.
Good luck!
cskone,
I quickly read through your thread, and I may have missed something, but I'm wondering why you're here. You're divorced and you're in a new relationship with some other woman, and you said you want some sort of relationship with your XW, but I don't understand why you're here. What are trying to accomplish?
cskone -- what was the process of falling in love with her like? What did you like about her? How did she make you feel? And vice versa: what did she like about you? How did she feel about you?
Your ex sounds super intense. Sometimes mellow people can have something akin to PTSD from falling in love with someone incredibly more intense than they are.
Just a thought from an armchair psychologist.
Re: doodler - what am I trying to accomplish
That's just it, I actually don't know...maybe it's just that I'm looking for some sort of validation to why all this happened. I'm sure a portion of being here is to share what exactly NOT to do after your W walks out. And I'd say I'm mostly here just to talk to people about it...how they moved on...what they did to make the pain of this go away and at least lessen somewhat.
Just as an FYI, having a new relationship doesn't exactly lessen the pain of losing the old one...it's just a different thing. Part of me also wants to be here to help clear up and learn about the things I did wrong in my M so that I don't screw up another one.
So in other words, I have no clue what my goals for being here are right now. It's likely a lot of things.
Re: Andrew P - Depression
I'm pretty xW was definitely depressed. Right before this all happened, she actually started looking for another job claiming that "working at a start up is more fun". When we were in counseling, she admitted that the majority of her social life was in response to "not having to deal with herself". But of course when asked about that, she'd bottle up immediately.
The real key for me and her work/social life was that there was definitely a real turning point between it being work...and it being her only point of origin for any activities. She pretty much dropped all interaction with her outside friends and started attending things she really didn't have to. The other big thing for me is purely the age thing. These people are in their early to mid-20's and up until the point when her social life really changed, she was acting for all intents and purposes as the 34 year old she was.
Thanks for the advice about looking in the mirror. I don't like who I am right now, I hate that I'm still replaying this over and over again just to find some sort of answer. And perhaps that's the real reason I'm here...to get some support to GAL and move on from this.
Re: ForGump - Falling in Love
I don't know. For me it took awhile...after a few months, I guess I just assumed that we'd keep dating and get married. I'm definitely not the romantic type and I definitely just let things flow where they might. I loved her b/c she was so even keeled and positive in literally every situation. Nothing seemed to get her too high, or too low...although I've since learned the opposite was true, she just bottled it all up and staying "even" was her way of coping with adversity.
I "think" she loved me b/c of my propensity to "call it how it is", that I literally would "do anything for her"...and probably for my strong convictions in what I believed in.
What's so weird for me was that she's absolutely NOT intense on the surface at ALL. Turns out she was incredibly intense underneath the whole time, but just held it in. Now that I look back on this, her Dad's nervous breakdown didn't seem to upset or affect her at all...if anything she seemed kind of annoyed by the whole process. Her grandmother died a couple of months ago too...and in the months leading up, it just seemed like both the xW and her mom wanted it to be over, rather than dealing w/ her sickness. Still weirds me out.
cskone--
Not sure what to say about your W. Sounds like she exerted a lot of self-control, maybe too much, over the years, and then the dam broke.
About your willingness to do anything -- I was like that too. That can lead to co-dependency type of mindset. I think it's important to find yourself during this crisis. Who are you. What are your values and principles. What do you want.
Be a great man -- someone worthy of your W to return to, should she choose to, or another woman to be drawn to.
Re: ForGump
There's a whole other thing that I somehow forgot. She dated women exclusively from the age of 20-25 and was in relationships with them since early HS. I've never quite figured out if any of that plays any sort of role, but it seems like it might (?).
So,
Still new here but wanted to share my experiences going through the collaborative divorce process.
The xW and I separated about a year ago, but attempted to work on things...I got extremely frustrated with the process (she was possibly going through MLC and didn't know about DB'ing) and suggested that we go see a lawyer together after a particularly nasty fight last Dec. The good (?) thing was her company offered insurance for legal affairs and she signed up for it and we made an appointment.
I should say that although I didn't want this under any circumstances, I was caving to her thinking that if I did what she wanted, it would "help". Well, I'm here to tell you that the past 8 months of my life have been an absolute living hell and the majority of that was probably due to the fact that we didn't get separate attorneys.
During this whole process I found out the following due to the fact that we had to share all our financial stuff at time of S:
-she was at the very least having an EA with a 22 year old before BD (found parking lot receipts through our bank statements)
-confirmed she was having a PA
-found out she was literally spending $1k's of dollars on clothes and future trips (with OM) before BD (again through bank statements)
-that she was lying to me about the amount of stock options she was being given (talking in the $100k range)
-that she was lying to me about the amount of money she was making at the time of S
In the process of all this b/c I'm incredibly task oriented and wanted her to make the final decision:
-I divided and valued all our assets
-Provided any and all precedence I could find in our state about the harder subjects (house, retirement, company stock)
-Started refinancing the house
-Got the quit deed for the house put together
-Got the dog signed over
This all sounds so obviously idiotic now. I didn't want to get divorced, so why in the world did do all this stuff? I think mostly b/c at the time it was literally the only connection that I had left with her. I didn't know that I needed to detach, give her space to live her life and figure out her MLC, and GAL. All the work left me absolutely obsessed getting at least the perfunctory stuff resolved.
All we did was fight about everything. In the beginning she wouldn't even respond (which likely should have been a sign for me to back off), and all it did was make me even more upset that she was ignoring all of this. The more I pushed, the more she resented me...the more she resented me, the angrier I got that she was ignoring me...and on and on. Finally, I think all of this just pushed her over the edge and completely out of my life.
I guess what I'm really getting at is, if you are new to all of this, just finding these boards...it will incredibly hard to utilize BD if you go the collaboration route. If I had any sense whatsoever and I could do this all over again, I just would have let her do all the work and we likely wouldn't be divorced yet, wouldn't have gone through long periods of absolutely hating each other, and there may have at least been the chance that we could have found some happy moments to build upon. I could have and absolutely should have got my own attorney and let them deal with everything...would have saved me an amazing amount of heartache and would have started to allow me to GAL.
I'm sure I'm leaving all sorts of nuances out of this, but it's frankly hard to remember...and even harder to think about the so many places I went wrong
Again I'm new here, but wanted to share my experiences with meds that I got prescribed after the BD when I lost 20 lbs, couldn't sleep, couldn't focus...couldn't live.
It took me a few weeks after the BD to finally pull myself together and go to a doctor at the urging of the therapist I started seeing after the BD. He almost immediately prescribed me zoloft as an antidepressant (for longer term anxiety that I always seem to be dealing with), and Klonopin for the intense panic attacks I was getting after the W moved out.
I should say that every part of the following was absolutely my fault for not truly understanding the drugs I was taking...I just wanted to feel anything different. The combination of the two drugs actually did wonders for me throughout the first couple of months after the BD. In fact, therapy with wife was going well, we were at least sort of talking regularly and seeing each other a couple of times a week. This went to the point of the W actually saying she thought we were making progress in a therapy session.
Fast forward a few weeks and the W really starts making some questionable decisions and starts really acting more like she was MLC. Switching on and off between saving the M and trashing me in counseling appointments. Within a two week span, she spent $8000 on a 3 week trip to africa the following march, told me that the only reason she was still in therapy was bc I was her "fall back plan" (as if she had a plan to begin with), and made plans for a 2 week trip with a bunch of 22 year old male co workers to Iceland the following January (I was decidedly NOT invited on these trips regardless of where our future was going)...and I found out she had herpes since before we were married (she outright lied to me for years about this telling me several times she never had an STD. Oh, and I "discovered" that rather than "fooling around with women for a couple years in her 20's" was actually exclusively dating women before she "decided" she wasn't a lesbian (to be clear, I have no problems with her choice in partners...just that she lied so profusely about it).
So I backed far FAR away and started drinking...a lot. This is where the problems started. Although I was giving her a bunch of space and she kept trying to contact me to test the temperature to apologize, I'd had enough after the past three months hell she put me through. Well, as I found out, you tend to develop a tolerance to klonopin relatively quickly and although it was a life saver for the previous couple of months, I had to supplement it with alcohol to stave off the panic attacks. This is a recipe for disaster as you end up building up tolerances at an even greater rate when combined. Keep in mind, I wasn't even taking more than what my doctor had prescribed for the klonopin.
As I wanted to start going dim on the W, I also wanted to start GAL (as I now know it's called). I also wanted to kick the klonopin and zoloft as I was tired of depending on drugs to feel half way decent. Even bigger mistake. I found out later the only effective way to do this, even if you haven't been on klonopin long is to taper VERY slowly off for sometimes months. Worst hell I've ever been through...and the irony the only way to feel better is to drink more.
So GAL started to fail, and I started talking to the W again. But now instead of the changed history person I had become to her at BD, I'd also become a huge drinker...right in phase where I couldn't afford to be. I won't lie, I think it's a major reason that we didn't end up trying to work on things for longer as it made me look like even worse of a human being to her at that point. As an FYI, I'm no longer taking anti-anxiety drugs anymore, and back to a somewhat reasonable drinking schedule.
Anyway, thanks for listening and if this helps anyone, wonderful. I just wanted to drop those two cents in for those that are in the same despair that I was in the first couple of months after the BD. Be VERY careful about medicating yourself...I'll never know how much it hurt my sitch, but it in now way helped.
cskone
Please stick to one thread until 100 posts.
You can change the title of a thread or a post if you desire
like this one.
However it is so much easier for others to give you advice if you stick to one thread.
It is also easier to re-read your story later on.
I have merged your threads together into the main thread for now.
Thanks for your cooperation.
That's just it, I actually don't know...maybe it's just that I'm looking for some sort of validation to why all this happened. I'm sure a portion of being here is to share what exactly NOT to do after your W walks out. And I'd say I'm mostly here just to talk to people about it...how they moved on...what they did to make the pain of this go away and at least lessen somewhat.
Values are like traffic laws. Instead of stop signs, dotted lines indicating lane borders, and speed limits, we have rules we behave by to preserve our society. "Do what you feel like" doesn't work very well. Can you imagine driving a car and running a red light because you didn't 'feel' like stopping? Well, so goes the relationship.
Currently you aren't observing many of the values that I personally hold dearly. You seem to excuse things because you 'want to change how you feel' or 'don't know how else you'd get through', including:
-Drinking and medicating.
-Dating while married and continuing while emotionally unprepared
-Dating someone that herself participated in the assault on a M
So you want to know why you were in a 'relationship crash'? It's because both of you followed the life road map of doing what you felt like. Feelings aren't a good compass. Granted some of the above wasn't during your M, but it was this 'do what I feel like' mentality that you carry that was. And same is true for XW, clearly she is in 'do what she feels like' mode. M is too tough to survive without sacrifice and commitment from both parties.
All it usually takes is one person in 'follow the feeling' mode to destroy a marriage, but at least if one person has strength, character, and can model and demonstrate some leadership, well, it gives the other person the time and opportunity to see what they're losing and follow that person's lead. I often tell new posters
act with the character you wish they had, you can't expect them to do something you can't yourself. Many times by leading the way and transcending day to day feelings and impulses we can show enough improvements and strength to be the lighthouse that our WAS returns to. If not, we get to sleep soundly at night, free of any guilt, able to meet life head on without medicating, at peace knowing we did everything we could to save our M, and prepared for a healthy relationship in the future that is equipped to survive the test of time should that day arise.
I understand how difficult it is to lose your marriage. Trust me. I get it. If you need to lay in bed for a week and cry you won't hurt my feelings. But ultimately you choose what you do from here. With no goals and no values it just seems like you're going to drift around doing whatever is easiest or feels best at the moment, all the while scratching your head as to why it isn't working. How can that work? Really?
So hopefully this answers why your M was in a crash, two drivers not following any traffic signs. Knowing that do you want to start now, or do you just write off the possibility of a long term relationship and accept your life will be a series of crashes because you aren't feeling so hot and aren't up for following pesky values today?
Hang in csk.
Re: Cadet
Sorry about that, should have seen that somewhere. Will stick to this post.
Re: Zues
I really do not mean to excuse any of my actions over the past year. Probably the biggest reason I'm here and so interested in these boards is b/c I did NOT do any of the things that are so recommended. For every crappy thing my xW did, I followed it up w/ an equally crappy thing...it never meant I didn't love her, but I admittedly was being vengeful and I completely regret it. I didn't like who I had become and reading the inspiration of people that have gone through this is why I'm seeking advice. Of which, I thank you for yours.
I've had to take several good long looks in the mirror over the past 9 months and I'm still struck by the duplicity of my feelings. Spend a month building back my character, leadership, and stability...then lose it in a day. It's only recently that I've been able to piece longer stretches of this together...yet I still miss my xW, and that's the toughest thing in all of this. No matter how strong I am...I miss her.
Again, sorry if this sounds like I'm just venting/complaining, but hearing some tough love is probably what I need...so thanks for that.
There's a whole other thing that I somehow forgot. She dated women exclusively from the age of 20-25
Maybe to point out the obvious ... she sounds like she might not feel a really strong direction in her own life ... and tried to force/repress it with you, and is now kind of going wild. She needs time and space to figure it out.
Somewhat similar story in my life. W repressed a lot over the years, I think...
RE: ForGump
Thanks...I'll take a look at your posts. She did mention at some point after meeting with our mutual married friend with kids that, "it was a really tough reminder of the life I thought I wanted."
Jeez...I just remembered that she also got a tatoo of a 2' mermaid on her side.
This is the card game I put together for my old buddy Pyrite:
I read your post this morning but had to work all day and then had kid time tonight, this was my first chance to get back to you. I really want to share a model that I think will help you out.
There were two people, you and your W. Let's pretend there's a game being played. You have 10 cards you can choose from, A low, 10 high. Each time either of you interact with each other you have to decide to play a card symbolizing how you treat each other. A 10 means you choose to be extremely loving, selfless, generous, noble, and operate from your highest spiritual self. A 5 means you're having an average day, you're on auto pilot, you may do some things for your mate but aren't really engaged. A 3 is negative, critical, impatient. Below that is the red zone where it becomes destructive, controlling, and potentially abusive.
In the beginning each of you plays a 10 card. You both feel good about the love you're feeling, and feel good about the love you're getting. Somehow that's hard to maintain with life getting in the way. Eventually you notice the cards she's playing are 5s and 6s. This is frustrating. You came to really like 10s. In fact, when she was playing 10 cards you felt really good. When she plays 5s and 6s you feel dissatisfied. You get frustrated that she won't play the 10s like she used to.
Disappointment leads to frustration. Frustration leads to hurt. Hurt leads to anger. Anger that isn't addressed builds into resentment. Next thing you know, you don't feel loving. You don't feel like playing 10s much either. In fact, you start to resent even having to play 5s and 6s yourself. It's not fair! Why should she get everything she wants and needs and for her to neglect you with a series of 5s? You can't be happy with 5s, and you would be with 10s, so really it's her failure to do her job that is the cause for your unhappiness. You start to play lower and lower cards. Partly because you are so resentful you can't stand the thought of giving her what she wants while you're not getting what you want. Partly to try to "get her attention", or show her that something is wrong. And partly because you just don't have the loving feelings that generate bigger loving numbers.
You NEED big numbers to be happy. She's failing. You must force her to play bigger numbers. There's only one strategy left. Time to play some 2s and A's. Put the hammer down. Make it clear this is unacceptable. Either you give me what I want and deserve or I will make things absolutely unbearable. Verbal abuse. Withholding affection. Critical comments. Bullying. Whatever.
***OK, STOP THE GAME A MINUTE***
I described how it felt to play this game. If someone asked "what type of guy are you, are you the kind of guy that plays A's or 10's or what?", you'd respond "I'm a GREAT guy, I'll play 10s or at least pretty big cards most of the time". If someone asked "why did you play so many A's and 2's the last couple of years? That looked borderline abusive", you'd reply "WHOA! That's NOT ME. That's not who I am! I only played those cards because SHE left me no choice! She was playing 3's and 4's and not loving me the way I need to be loved! If she had done HER JOB right I would've been HAPPY to respond with 7s, 9s, and a 10 now and then!"
So the whole issue in your mind was the way she treated you, and how it caused you to respond. You don't identify with you behavior because you see it as a reflection of her failure.
BUT THERE ARE SOME TRUTHS
-YOU ARE THE CARDS YOU CHOOSE TO PLAY. If you play A's and 2's, you are abusive. Doesn't matter why. If you kill someone you're a murderer. If you rob a bank you're a bank robber. And when you choose to treat someone poorly, then you are a BAD H. PERIOD.
-IT'S NOT HER JOB TO PLAY 10S AND MAKE YOU HAPPY. Yes, 10s feel great. It's a nice treat in life to experience. But that's not life. Life isn't a series of sexual adventures, passionate date nights, back rubs, and sharing poetry. Why? I don't know. We build a tolerance to things and quickly expect them and take them for granted. Heck, even if she kept playing 10s they would start to feel like 7s to you quickly as you got used to it. Eventually people get to a level they can maintain (such as 5s through 8s with an occasional 10) and it starts to feel like a disappointment. AND IF YOU USED THE 10S TO MAKE YOURSELF FEEL GOOD ABOUT YOUR LIFE YOU WILL SUDDENLY FEEL DISCONTENT AND FEEL YOUR PARTNER IS TO BLAME. SHE'S NOT. You have to be happy on your own, and take what you get as a bonus.
-ONLY YOU GET TO DECIDE WHAT CARDS YOU PLAY. It doesn't matter if she plays 10s or 1s. *YOU* decide each day what type of person you are, how you want to respond. It's YOUR choice, not hers. She can play a 3 and you can STILL CHOOSE to respond with a 10.
CONCLUSION-
So, the funny part about all of this is that SHE FEELS THE SAME WAY. She thinks you didn't play the cards she needed to feel happy. She excuses all of her poor behavior as the "natural" reaction to being treated so poorly from you. She thinks what you did is far worse. This extends all the way to the "cheating". In her mind she would've never cheated had you not emotionally abused her for years, and it was only because of your actions that she was forced to take refuge in someone else to preserve herself. Then she remembered what a 10 felt like and decided that you were just an Ahole that played 1s-3s, and she can't have that in her life, and she found someone that plays 10s, so see ya later.
Now you're not playing the game anymore. There's no more interaction. SO YOU'RE NOT DEALING WITH THE DIFFICULTY OF BEING DISAPPOINTED OR RESENTFUL. You start to find it easier to act like a fine and upstanding citizen. This further proves to you that it must've been her driving you crazy. WRONG. It's easier to conduct yourself well on your own. You're not better! If you were in a relationship again tomorrow you'd be back on the downward spiral again, and you'd be dropping 2's and A's on people in a controlling way until they left you as well. Why? Because you haven't learned another way yet!
For you to judge her on the cards she was playing and excuse your cards because they were the only possible reaction is not going to get you anywhere.
Step one is acknowledging the truths above, taking ownership for your behavior REGARDLESS of the context, and deciding what type of man you want to be. Step two is forgiving her for the cards she's played because now you see how she's done nothing you haven't also done. Step three is learning how to take responsibility for your own happiness so you don't resent your future partner for not being able to chemically maintain euphoria in your life. And step four is learning coping mechanisms so that you are able to maintain responses between 5-10 even when you feel hurt, threatened, or rejected.
When you reach that point where you can be truly ok without a woman's love to make you feel ok, then you can be free to choose to respond lovingly much more often. Oh, and that cheater that just dumped you? Maybe if you had the strength before to treat her differently she would've responded differently. That's the whole DB/DR idea- control your half of the dance and you'd be surprised at what you see in exchange. Of course, it will never be all 10s, that's why you have to grow a bit first. And if you do, people will take notice and you'll be ready for a truly successful M. Who knows...maybe she'll even notice...maybe she'll learn these things on her own after her fling dies down...you can't control that, but if YOU can't learn it how can you expect her to? I say lead by example and act with the character you wish she was utilizing. Maybe if you become the spiritual leader and walk this path she'll notice, and maybe follow suit. If not, you'll know you did your best to save the M, and more importantly you'll need an M to make you happy LESS, and be prepared to have a happy M MORE.
I understand why you might not have been at your best. The past is gone. My question is what you are going to do now.
Have you seen enough to commit to a course of action based on values and beliefs, or are you going to continue to do whatever you feel up to at the time and hope it just works out for you?
Acting with character and belief won't get you what you want, we can't control that. But it can't hurt, and it is a reward in and of itself.
I'll take a look at your posts. She did mention at some point after meeting with our mutual married friend with kids that, "it was a really tough reminder of the life I thought I wanted."
You'll have to take a long, hard look at who your W was and is ... and, more importantly, take a long, hard look at who you are, what you want out of life, and what you are willing to work with, what you are willing to walk away from.
Easier said than done. This is such a painful place to be, we swim in a sea of thoughts and emotions for days, weeks, months. But that's where mutual support in this forum comes in. Even though each of us have our problems and are confused about our own problems, it's easier to have clarity about other people's problems.
Hang in there. One day at a time. Don't rush. Find yourself, while in this terrible mess.