SoEffingLost---Please help 2 - DivorceBusting.com

Starting a new thread. Previous thread can be found here: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2704599#Post2704599

Quick update from where last thread ended...

Originally Posted By: lostasf

Well, had a decent night last night. Some friends from Germany came over and we grilled out and had some great conversations (and I actually ate 2 hot dogs!). W joined us for a large part of the evening and put her happy face on. As soon as they left, she went back to her normal cold/removed self...which is fine. I went to bed around 11, while she stayed up and texted OM until around 1am. I slept almost 5 hours last night which was good. I still can't get over how upset I am that she is texting him all the time. I understand I am supposed to let it go/GAL/focus on me, but man it really "grinds my gears" that she texts him all day and night even while laying in the bed next to me. Anyway, just venting...I can't believe how naive/senseless someone with so much intelligence can be...how does she not see this is such a bad thing to do!!!! It is absolutely mind blowing! No matter how much I read here it is still mind blowing!

Originally Posted By: Coconut

Personally, next time she brought up OM, I would tell her that I will not be in a three person marriage, and I will not share my life or my bed, with someone having an A. I would tell her she needs to find someplace else to sleep (another room or another house), I would go as dark as possible while still living in same house (you don't have kids so its pretty easy).

lost, boundaries are personal, as they dictate what you personally will and will not tolerate, and depending how important those things are to you, how severe your consequence is for doing those things.
With that said, I personally would not put up with her texting OM while around me, and definitely not in my bed.. Just a suggestion, but you could start with my example above and tell her you will not stand for her carrying on an A in your presence, and she needs to find somewhere else to be...

Originally Posted By: lostasf

This is one of the reasons I was so concerned with finding out what actions are available to me if a boundary is crossed after the boundary is stated. I have been following your advice to just go dark with her, but the constant texting is eating me up inside. If I don't do something logical in the relative near future, then I will most certainly do something illogical. My mind and heart simply can't continue on this trajectory. They will eventually fold, and when they do, there is no telling what that outcome will be. There has not and will not be a time that SHE brings up OM..so I can't wait for that. I am truly trying to give myself a few days like you suggested, and I think I can give myself a couple more, but then all bets are off. So it would be wise to have a plan rather than not.

Originally Posted By: lostasf

Yes, I know she is texting him. Not just a guess, I have taken a peak. She is texting her sister at the same time, but DEFINITELY texing him. Matter of fact, I peaked today and saw that there last message between her and OM was at 1:07AM and read "Define Successfully". Now, I can not physically unlock the phone I can only see that by looking from the "recently opened apps" screen.

Coconut,
I have no idea how you got all of that summary here, but thanks so much! You are a guru!

lost,

I'm going to hope that some vets stop bye and chime in here.. because although I fully understand what to do, It's been pointed out many a times that sometimes my timing and methods aren't always the best.

WONKA, Sandi2, any other vets, can you provide suggestions on how he should approach his WW to set the boundary, or if it would better to enforce the boundary and tell her about it if/when she questions why her stuff is out of the bedroom?

You tell her to stop texting her OM while in bed. She doesn't. She claims it's none of your business. Or that she's only texting her sister. You ask her to leave. She doesn't. You put grab her stuff and put it outside the door. She brings it back in. What then? You'd better think this through.

I did things without thinking it through, and it brought me to a place that I regretted.

Find a way to keep your dignity, a way to keep your integrity.

I feel for you, and I know you're going crazy. I wouldn't have lasted a night next to my W texting an OM.

Originally Posted By: ForGump

You tell her to stop texting her OM while in bed. She doesn't. She claims it's none of your business. Or that she's only texting her sister. You ask her to leave. She doesn't. You put grab her stuff and put it outside the door. She brings it back in. What then? You'd better think this through.

I did things without thinking it through, and it brought me to a place that I regretted.

Find a way to keep your dignity, a way to keep your integrity.

I feel for you, and I know you're going crazy. I wouldn't have lasted a night next to my W texting an OM.

ForG is right. Boundaries are something we personally enforce to protect ourselves and within our control. We cannot make someone else do something because we don't like it. That's not setting a boundary.

If he tries to kick her out, it will most likely play out like ForG said.

So, as I see it, you have one of two choices. Stay in the bed while she does what she wants, or you could leave the room, and when she asks why, you can tell her why.

The only way you can stay away from her texting OM while in bed is not being in the bed.

Grab phone, step on it, and slowly grind it into a pile of its component parts? Then pee all over it? I kid. Sort of.

lost, don't leave the MBR... When I found out about OM, I very sternly told my WW that I would not share the bedroom, she fought about it, and then left the MBR... She won't like it, but doesn't mean she won't go. It was a big issue with W, but I held my ground and she left.

Not sharing your marital bed with a wayward wife is not controlling, it is you not tolerating an open marriage. You'll get the advice you need to set the boundary, just be patient.. Not saying any advice you received is wrong, just not helpful for the path you are trying to take.

You pay for that phone right? How about shut the phone off?

Originally Posted By: Coconut

lost, don't leave the MBR... When I found out about OM, I very sternly told my WW that I would not share the bedroom, she fought about it, and then left the MBR... She won't like it, but doesn't mean she won't go. It was a big issue with W, but I held my ground and she left.

Not sharing your marital bed with a wayward wife is not controlling, it is you not tolerating an open marriage. You'll get the advice you need to set the boundary, just be patient.. Not saying any advice you received is wrong, just not helpful for the path you are trying to take.

Coconut, what if she refuses? Is she to physically throw her out? he could give her the speech and she can say "no, my bed too" Your wife chose to agree. What if she didn't?

Then he shuts off the phone. She gets another one in her own name and continues with the texting. Is it awfully disrespectful? Absolutely! I don't agree with it.

The thing about boundaries are they have to be enforceable. The only way you can enforce them is taking action yourself.

I'm not saying leaving the MBR is the best idea. I'm just saying if you want to ensure you are removed from the situation, the only way is to take your self out.

personal example. I did not want OW around my baby D. I told my ex how it made me feel, that I will not allow it....

Did he listen? of course not. I couldn't make him. I could only legally make sure she wasn't left alone with her.

If you want to take a shot and see if it works, be my guest. But if it doesn't? Then you need a plan.

I'm not telling you what to do. The reality is you can only control what you do, you can't control what she does.

Ginger, it is a slippery slope. But I was willing to stand my ground with my WW every time she stepped foot into the MBR if she hadn't left. Definitely do not physically remove her, but I don't think she would stay if every time she walked in there he repeated his intolerance of an open marriage, and if every time she left the room her stuff was then removed from the bedroom.

and as doodler would probably add:

If she refuses to leave, just turn down the AC all the way and steal all of the covers at night. and no one can blame you if you have a dream that your in a Bruce Lee movie and accidently kick her out of bed, right????

Lost, when/if you decide to enforce your boundary, you need to go all in right away. Be patient with starting to enforce your boundary, because you don't want to waffle back and forth on it.

I'm hoping some vets will stop in and provide suggestion on the best way for you to approach your WW on the boundary..

Lost -- I agree w/ the sentiment that you shouldn't have to give up the MBR. But you cannot perfectly predict how your W is going to react to your declarations. Yes, odds are -- let's call it 90% probability -- that she'll shut the damn phone off or leave the MBR herself. But what if that 10% chance happens -- she feels belligerent in the moment and tells you to shove it. What are you going to do? You don't want to standing there w/ your ... pride in your hand. Know your ultimate move before you confront her.

She just called me a few minutes ago and said that "a group of people" from work were going out but they didn't know where yet. Said "do you need me home for anything?" I said no. I'm just done. Before her waywardness, she would have told me we are going here or there...now nothing...so that means it's a secret. I am just done with secrets.

I believe tomorrow or this weekend I will just present her with a completed Division of assets form and hope that we can just agree on everything. I'm done.

Man, I feel for you, I really do... If my WW and I got back together and she did it again, I'd be gone.... But here's the thing, you guys never addressed the issues, so I'm not sure the M improved...

If you want to say I'm done' no one will blame you, but we'd rather see you get yourself in order before you do that... Plus, and this is especially important, you shouldn't make that decision when your emotionally charged. Right now, your making that decision because she said she's going out, that my friend is emotionally charged. Your making a decision based on what she's doing..

Did you pick a gym? If not fck it, go to the most convenient one, sign up, and go mess around for two hours... Treadmill, bike, nautilus, whatever, just go sign up and mess around... Get your mind on something else, let's talk later or tomorrow.

Lost -- take a hike, man.

A long hike.

Take the bus to the opposite end of town, and walk back. Walk for hours. Breathe.

It hurts like hell. Let it hurt. Let it go through your body.

Then decide what to do next.

Originally Posted By: Coconut

lost,

I'm going to hope that some vets stop bye and chime in here.. because although I fully understand what to do, It's been pointed out many a times that sometimes my timing and methods aren't always the best.

WONKA, Sandi2, any other vets, can you provide suggestions on how he should approach his WW to set the boundary, or if it would better to enforce the boundary and tell her about it if/when she questions why her stuff is out of the bedroom?

Bump

I personally think that words are meaningless, speak with actions.

If she steps over a boundary then enforce a consequence.

Keep working on yourself, most important.

I slept on it. I am not as angry today about it, but I still feel like the same decision is necessary. I don't like the decision, but it just feels necessary. I will continue working on the division of assets form and decide the most appropriate way to bring this up. The attorney very strongly suggested that we have this completed before moving forward with any legal actions. Gosh I really hate this

well, she texted me a few minutes ago and she is just so short and politically correct. She is gone...she is no more....so with that said, I guess I know what I HAVE to do. It is gonna be the most difficult decision and conversation that I have ever had. I have to let/make her go. I hate that this will impact so many other people. I can't believe I won't get to continue watching my nieces grow up...it is making me cry as I type this. I hate that I will not have my "partner in crime" that I have had for so long. I hate that I will no longer have that person to look forward to talking to when I get home, or when something exciting happens. I hate that I will no longer have sex with her (god it was so awesome). I hate that she will take our dogs with her. Gosh there are just soooo soooo many changes that are hinged on this one decision.

Lost --

There is no "gone." There is only: we do not know the future.

There are people in this forum who have been holding steady for years, despite their spouses doing all kinds of crazy stuff.

Only you can decide when and how to switch courses. You can say, I don't know if she will ever return, and I cannot wait any longer. I can respect that. But you can't say she is gone. You don't know that.

What has SHE done to make the divorce happen? Maybe you should let her take the next step -- meanwhile you educate yourself on the divorce process so that you are empowered to respond.

If I could convince her to call a DB coach with me, would this be a good idea?

No. Nein. Nyet.

Naagga (Inuktitut, Alaska).

You will only fuel her rebellion and contempt for you.

Think back to an old relationship you had. Someone that you broke up with. When your love for your girlfriend drained out of you, and you knew you wanted to break up with her ... how did that feel. Now, if that girlfriend came begging, pleading, demanding ... did that make you suddenly feel loving towards her?

That's how she feels about you. She's doing this because of how SHE feels. She doesn't care how you feel.

I've never had another relationship...

So I honestly don't know what that feels like.

Originally Posted By: lostasf

well, she texted me a few minutes ago and she is just so short and politically correct. She is gone...she is no more....so with that said, I guess I know what I HAVE to do. It is gonna be the most difficult decision and conversation that I have ever had. I have to let/make her go. I hate that this will impact so many other people. I can't believe I won't get to continue watching my nieces grow up...it is making me cry as I type this. I hate that I will not have my "partner in crime" that I have had for so long. I hate that I will no longer have that person to look forward to talking to when I get home, or when something exciting happens. I hate that I will no longer have sex with her (god it was so awesome). I hate that she will take our dogs with her. Gosh there are just soooo soooo many changes that are hinged on this one decision.

Deep breathe, my friend. Try and close your eyes for a few minutes and just take a few slow deep breaths.

This is terribly painful. Possibly the hardest thing you will ever experience in your life. Unfortunately you are at the very beginning and things might get much worse before they get better. But, they WILL get better. You are in a crisis and are spinning, but you will not feel this way forever.

I think your mind is spinning and you're feeling out of control, so you are desperately reaching for what you can control. For you that means dividing assets, filing for D, taking a legal stance, etc, or whatever you can control right now.

What we are trying to help you understand is that nothing has to be done right now. These are big decisions that do not have to be made today. It is never advised to make these decisions from an emotional place.

I also want to add that there are many of us that are several years down the road--some of us have moved on, some D, some still on the roller coaster, and some of us are reconciling our Ms. Things can and always will change. People change. Sometimes on a dime. You may be 100% convinced that you are done now and then in a couple years or months you may feel differently. Right now I think it would behoove you to sloooowwww way down and rally up some support so you can begin to even wrap your mind around what is happening.

Blu

Seriously. Dont do ANYTHING but GAL for a week.

No boundaries. No paperwork. No "decisions". No nothing.

Just get back to you for a bit.

I promise, your situation wont get any worse in the interim.

Lost, listen to what is being said by everyone... Don't throw in the towel and file, it isn't going to change the hurt your feeling.. Patience buddy, you may decide it's over in the end, but you're not in a place right now to decide that.

I would enforce my boundary of no texting OM in marital bed, but it also may be a good thing to only focus on you right now...

Lost, I have read your update and this thread and boy do I ever feel for you! I remember that panic, the anxiety, the depression, tears, sleeplessness, and fatigue. I really do feel for you.

I cannot tell you what to do, every person has their own path, every person has their own timeline and things happen in between. You have received some great advice on your thread and there is great advice in Sandi's Rules. No matter what you do you must find a way back to you. You need to find that person you were before meeting your ww. In fact you probably have changed a lot and need to find the new you.

However, you can not do that in the situation you are in. As terrified as you are now, I am living proof there will be better days. As far as confronting her, WW's are extremely rebellious and spiteful. In my circumstance I left my own house. I know that is not recommended but I had other factors to consider. So I lived in a gym for two weeks and then got an apartment for a month. Those were tough, tough times and I am not recommending you leave. Here is what I am recommending you do:
Play out scenarios here. If I do this and she does that what should I do next??? Read and consider everyone's point of view. Find someone you can speak to in person... I had some friend I check in with and the best one hour conversation I had was with my priest. If you trust them seek their advice about what you should do, but taking only as a consideration. Think long and hard about any decisions you make cause they will affect the outcome of your whole sitch. Then decide what you are comfortable with and stick to it as long as you have reason for doing it.

Finally, do something, anything for you. I joined a gym, lost weight and enjoyed spending too much money on clothes that fit. Its ok to be selfish at this time of your life, just don't dig yourself too much of a whole. But I feel it is helpful for a distraction to hand that one moment of happiness in a miserable day. It will also give you glimpses of what life can be like.

As time passes you will find more moments of happiness and more sleep. You can only control you and she will stay or go, so you take control over you and make yourself happy and whole again. One of the best quotes I heard was from my priest who told me "forgiving someone is not saying their actions were ok, but that their actions no longer control you."

I wish you the best of luck.

Please relax and breathe. Please don't take any actions now. Sometimes we just need to be still for a while. Call a friend, do something to keep you occupied and distracted.

I know you feel like you have to be doing something to end your pain. Taking these actions in the height of it all will not bring relief. Breathing, doing something for yourself, stepping back and leaning on friends and family will bring some comfort.

hang in there. We have all been there and you just need ot get through 48 hours and then revaluate.

Well, I tried to relax and leave her alone...but she asked me about my dentist visit today and I explained all the work and costs associated. She got upset and said "why didn't you do this year's ago when I asked you to. This is so ironic, it makes me angry". Well, I did not follow DB rules on this one. I told her she should understand that all those years I was depressed and didn't at all care about myself.or anyone else for that matter. She was not thrilled. So, she followed all that to say "just as you are doing what you need to for you, I need to do what I need.". Now what the hell that means I don't know because I discontinued the conversation..

Lost,
don't explain to her "why now and not when I asked you" stuff. Just do it, it's okay. If you make changes in yourself now, like lose weight or get teeth fixed or be more pleasant, it will anger your S, because they wanted you to change then, and not now. But that is ok!
Change for the better, maybe for W, maybe for the next person. But do it and don't justify it!

Well, as I lay here in bed she is texting the OM. As she is texting him she is deleting her messages. How am i supposed to not say anything. It's eating me alive.

Get up and leave

Be sane first before you make your next move

I somehow just let it go for the night. Something has to give though. I know you all are telling me to just focus on me, but the complete lack of respect and the amount of tension in my home is completely overwhelming. I don't know how much more I can take before I actually just blow up!

Originally Posted By: lostasf

I somehow just let it go for the night. Something has to give though. I know you all are telling me to just focus on me, but the complete lack of respect and the amount of tension in my home is completely overwhelming. I don't know how much more I can take before I actually just blow up!

We understand the feeling of being ready to just blow up...

But please do take heed to what you are being advised...

Think on this....

Originally Posted By: lostasf

I don't know how much more I can take before I actually just blow up!

What would this help for you?

Quote:

but the complete lack of respect and the amount of tension in my home is completely overwhelming.

You can take back power of the situation by focus on yourself....
"Respect your efforts, respect yourself. Self-respect leads to self-discipline. When you have both firmly under your belt, that's real power."-Clint Eastwood

Some thoughts to ponder on my friend.

"Don't make a permanent decision for your temporary emotion."

"Making hard decisions is easier when you are optimistic and when your decisions are based on value."-Dr Anil Kumar Sinha

Vent here to let the pressure off....
But please do not make a decision based on emotions....
Too many stories here of regrets and outcomes that may have been avoided if cooler heads prevailed.....

It's just awful, isn't it?

One thing I've learnt in this whole thing, is that you can't demand that someone else respect you. You can't really make them do (or feel) anything at all really. You have no control over this.

The only thing you can do is make a decision on how far you're willing to let their behaviour affect you.

You make that decision based on your own values and principles.

But that takes a little time and thinking to work out. Because this process is entirely yours, and yours alone. And it's like peeling back the layers of an onion. When one layer is off, there is another one right underneath to look at an get used to. It looks kinda similar in lots of ways, but it's also different and has its own beauty (and blemishes).

I know its really, really hard when you've been so used to being so close to someone (your spouse). It's a bit of a head **** in fact, and pretty frightening as well. But that's the journey you've been put on (along with the rest of us here). It's what you want to do with that.

Sorry for not being able to sound more positive and upbeat. Still struggling with mine at times.

And thank you SH_ for being much more eloquent and far sighted than me

Well, she brought up the temporary separation again. Seems she is dead set on it now, so we discussed the logistics. God that was a painful conversation. I suppose we will be moving forward with that whether I like it or not. So I don't know where to go from here.

lost,

My thought is to let it happen...
I mean you really can not stop it if that is what she wants.

I encourage that you speak with a L to ensure that finances and any other key points that you may need to protect since it is a 50 50 state I believe you indicated....

Then what you do is bury your self into the finer points of the LRT as laid out in DB/DR.
Read the feedback from everyone in your thread....
What you should be doing is being expressed to you by many that have traveled this road...

Begin with a beginners mindset.....
Hang in there....

Well, unfortunately she said that if I want to make this official/legal that is the end. There will be no working on us at that point. So I'm not sure what to do.

If you want to make it official ...

and

"There will be no working on us at that point."

Sounds to me like she's not shutting the door closed completely.

In one post you say that your done, you're going to file and end this, then in the next you say unfortunately she said it would be done if you make the S legal...

It's completely normal, you don't know what you want (except for this not to be happening at all), and she doesn't know what she wants either...

Your best bet is to stop being concerned what she wants, just figure out what's best for you. Did the L recommend making it legal so she doesn't spend her half of the money then get half of yours if you D? Don't file, or not file, based on what you think her reaction will be, do what is best for you.

This is a long road, and will get so much easier in a few months, just really try and focus on you for now.

Well, I caught her at OM's house today after she told me she was going to the park. I confronted in a very casual way: Told her I would see her at my house, and got in my truck and left.

That's it! That's the straw! The funny part was she called me just a few minutes later and tried to spin this on me!!!! I just chuckled to myself.

Lost,

I feel for you buddy. You are drowning right now. You're world has been turned upside down and you just want the pain to stop. But I'm going to pass some 2x4's your way.
You've been her less than 2 weeks and unfortunately, I don't see you following much of the excellent advice that has been passed on to you.
You must DETACH and you have to do it now. You have to realize your M, as you knew it, is over. Its done. LET HER GO! You need to emotional separate/divorce her. You don't have to do anything legal right now but you have to realize she is gone. The sooner you can do that, the sooner things have the chance of turning around.
Your W has not had to experience any loss yet and she has to. She must see that she has lost you. Detach, 180, GAL and go dark. Anything she says/does right now should be irrelevant to you.
You can't demand that she respect you and you can't make her stop the A. She has to choose to do those things and that can't happen until she has experienced loss. It doesn't matter if she stays in the house, goes to MC counseling with you or if you S. Until she has experienced loss, chooses to end the A and demonstrates true remorse, there is no moving forward no matter what you do. So you might as well turn your attention to yourself.
As far as her texting the OM while laying in bed next to you, I wouldn't stand for it. I wouldn't even allow her in the MBR so long as the A is on going. If I were you, I would move all her stuff out of the MBR. Put all her stuff in another room. You can be polite to her but you do not need to explain anything to her. She doesn't deserve to know anything about what or why you are doing things so long as she is living a life outside of your M.
This can be turned around but you've got to follow the process and the rules.

I don't want this to turn around my friend. There is no coming back from that for me.

Lost--

If that's your boundary, that's your boundary. You don't want her no more. I get it. OK. Let it be done, over, finito.

But before you move on with your life, consider this fact: the divorce rate for people marrying for the second time is higher than those marrying for the first time.

So, I assume a young person like yourself will want to remarry at some point. What you gonna do, so that you don't divorce yet again?

I'm not saying take your W back. But take a good hard look at yourself and your marriage, before you move on, so that whatever you learn about yourself, you remember.

If your journey is over, I'm glad for you. I don't wish this kind of heartbreak on anyone.

Originally Posted By: lostasf

I don't want this to turn around my friend. There is no coming back from that for me.

In my opinion, that doesn't matter. The advice LiM gave you is for you. It just happens to give you the best chance of reconciling as well.

But frankly, regardless of what you "want", the advice is the same.

Why were you even at OMs house to see your W? And what did you have to gain by telling her? That's like showing your cards while playing poker!

Lost,

You've set your mind to it, your done and there's not coming back. Lets go with that mindset. Remove her stuff from your MBR, tell her you will not be in an open M, tell her she needs to get a place and leave your marital home. Stand up for yourself and let her know you are the man of the house and will not stand for disrespect. Be nice, don't be condescending or rude, but be firm and sure of what you say. Tell her she needs to go. She's likely going to leave anyway, so this just puts an exclamation point on it.

Then STOP. Don't file, don't tell her your going to divorce her, just stop talking with her, don't text her, go dark. And work on yourself. Keep the mindset that your divorcing, but don't divorce just yet. This is a long ride, divorcing isn't going to make anything easier, but separating and having her live elsewhere may help you keep your sanity.

I agree 100% with the advice that coconut gave.
Get her out of the MBR and tell her to get out of your house. Tell her you will not be treated this way and so long as she chooses this life, she cannot be a part of yours. Tell her to hit the road. Take half of your finances and put them in a new account that she doesn't have access to.
Then walk away and just stop. Breath. Be still.
I know you feel like you know exactly what you want right now but in fairness, your life is in such chaos, you really can't trust what you are feeling. So give things a chance to settle down. D doesn't make the pain go away and D isn't an instant fix. It is a long, drawn out process that will bring its own pain along with it.
So long as she is engaged in this A, you have to get her out of your life and go dark. And once you have that, you need time to just be. With this time will come clarity. In that clarity, you may find that you still don't want to work on the R any longer. And if so, that's ok. But you may also find that you do want to work on the R. But you won't know how you truthfully feel until you have a chance to push the pause button on all the chaos.

Obviously I was super angry yesterday and made my comments in haste. Unfortunately, now I am back to reality. I have no darn clue what I want. I know I need to detach, I know I need to GAL, I just don't know how the heck to get myself motivated to do so. I can't stop consuming myself with what is going on. I went to the gym last night, hoping that would help...unfortunately all I did was think about the sitch and watch time go by as I "worked out". I just can't get out of the fog that I am in.

lost,

Did you speak with her when she got home? If so, what was said?

Is she still in MBR, Home?

Glad to hear you went to the gym, it takes time but you will come out of the fog you are in. Just keeping yourself occupied helps, it will get easier, just give yourself time.

This stuff is HARD man. Its tuff but it is workable. You've got to stop the chaos and give yourself some time to take a break to figure all this out. That is going to be next to impossible to do if she's lying in bed next to you texting OM. You need to get her out of your bedroom if not out of the house all together. Then you've got to start doing things to keep you busy.
The day after I discovered my W's A, I stood in the parking lot of a movie theater, on the verge of tears as I texted my best friend to see if I could come to town and visit him. I had not confronted my W about the A yet. I did not sleep at all the night before. I was exhausted and miserable but I made myself get out of the house. And I kept doing it day after day. Sometimes, I felt like I was having to take life 1 hour at a time because any more than that was not tolerable. Break it down into whatever increments you can handle. If you need to go walk laps in the parking lot at work, then that's what you do. that's what I had to do.
GAL will not magically erase the pain. But it will be far less than if you just sit around and dwell on it.

We did speak about it when she got home. It mostly led us into a conversation about where our relationship is going. She is 90% sure she wants a divorce, but doesn't know why she can't "say the words" to me. Obviously this is disheartening to me. She did sleep in the MBR last night, but neither of us were on our phones. We just discussed until we were so exhausted that we fell asleep. Now, today is a different story. I am no longer empowered as I was yesterday; and she is no longer open/emotional as she was yesterday. She has returned to her cold/bitter self. Today has just been more talking in circles with each other and her demanding that we have a clear path TODAY! Divorce or work on it. She is going to check out an Extended Stay hotel here in just a few minutes and expects to be able to move in there tomorrow if all goes well. I actually am on board with this as the tension is just unbearable right now.

The motivation for GAL is because it is the best chance you have to save yourself and possibly your marriage. And I mean more than just working out. Sure, that helps. But I'm talking about going and regaining your confidence. Do something new. Meet new people. Just DO IT. I promise it's the best thing you'll do.

She is conflicted. That is why she is so wishy washy. That is a good thing.
To be clear, there is NO "working on it" while she is still having an A. Until then, nothing that you do matters.
I would encourage you to get her out of the house. Let her move into the hotel. This will allow you some piece and the time/space to work on YOU.
She will be miserable when she moves out. Let her be. Dont concern yourself with her. This is time for you to regain a sense of balance and calm in your life. You need this to figure out how you want to move forward with the rest of your life. You don't need to file for D right now. What you need right now is time to let things settle down.
Detach, 180 and GAL.

Well, it went from checking out an extended stay to sign up for a couple weeks to now she is going on her lunch break to sign a 6 month lease at an apartment. I am absolutely devastated, even though I know I should be relieved. I just feel like I don't know how I will make it seeing her leave...or coming home and her not being there even with as much tension as there has been lately.

lost,

You need to try and keep a positive mental attitude. You will no longer need to deal with her disrespect straight to your face, you will have time to find yourself and become the man you want to be. I told you on your first page, this is a long ride and she HAS to go through her journey and that you HAVE to go through yours.

Her moving out will allow you to come home without worrying about what her attitude is going to be, it will allow you to be in bed without wondering who she is texting.. Keep the positives in mind, find a positive mental attitude.

Even just yesterday she was only gone for about 5 hours, and I found myself basically just thinking about when she would be home. I mean I couldn't bring myself to do much of anything except think about when she would be home. Then I couldn't help thinking about the fact that in just a few short days, she won't be coming home. I am just absolutely devastated. I don't know how the heck to pull myself out of it. I appreciate you mentioning the positives, but I just can't stop feeling this way.

Hey Lost,

This is hard. I know how bad it feels.
But truth be told, her going away for 2 weeks to a hotel was not going to fix anything. This is a LONG road. Accept that she is gone. Accept that the M you knew is over and move on. Seek out and find peace. Sounds like you have some codependency issues. That's ok. Get a book and read on that. Spend this time finding out who you really are? Find yourself so that you aren't Lost anymore.
6 months isn't actually that long. That's much better than if she had signed a 1 year lease.

I completely agree that I have MAJOR codependency issues. I didn't know this until all of this unfolded. Do you have any suggestions for a book on this?

Originally Posted By: lostasf

I just can't stop feeling this way.

So what do you do if you feel hungry?

What do you do if you feel cold?

YOU are in control of your feelings. Not her.

So you feel sad or lonely right now? What are you going to DO about it to change those feelings?

Codependent No More is often recommended on this site. I read it and found it useful.

Originally Posted By: lostasf

Even just yesterday she was only gone for about 5 hours, and I found myself basically just thinking about when she would be home. I mean I couldn't bring myself to do much of anything except think about when she would be home. Then I couldn't help thinking about the fact that in just a few short days, she won't be coming home. I am just absolutely devastated. I don't know how the heck to pull myself out of it. I appreciate you mentioning the positives, but I just can't stop feeling this way.

lostasf,

I'm sorry you feel so badly. I was distraught before my wife moved out. I actually pushed her to move out earlier than planned (kind of a 180), but I still dreaded the move-out day. I was anticipating being sad for weeks.

However, I don't know if my experience was unique, but what happened was that I realized that everything was suddenly calm and serene. I was finally able to get stuff done around the house. I did tons of home improvement projects. I kept taking bigger risks, like tearing out the sliding glass doors and building carriage doors to replace them. It was a time of wonderful creativity and productivity for me. In fact, history books will refer to that period as "doodler's renaissance of Tuscan architectural elements with a Cambrian explosion of artistic creativity and prodigious productivity unparalleled in the history of human beings." Or something like that.

So, what I'm saying is, you may find that life after move-out day ain't so bad after all.

Also, what is the general opinion here about exposing the affair/"friendship"? I have been reading on another very popular forum that exposure is a must. I am not sure how I feel about that. To me it seems a bit counter-intuitive to basically make her out to be the bad guy to all of the family and friends. At the same time, I don't have any PROOF that it is an "affair", and not just a "friendship".

I would not expose the A to anyone that does not need to know. That will only incite anger in your W and will work against you. I know you want to do it because it will make you feel better but it will work against you.
If OM is M and you have indisputable proof of the A, you could consider exposing it to OM's W but there is risk with that too. Most will advise that the person that does the exposing is likely to loose all chance of reconciling because it will infuriate your S.

That's how I felt about it, but they are absolutely adament that it must be done.

Also, in my case where I was emotionally disconnected for so long, it seems that "going dark" would be "more of the same". Is that not the way you guys would see it? Obviously I won't have a choice but to detach once she moves out, but the going dark thing kinda confuses me.

No, you have to go dark and work on you. I was also emotionally detached for a long time. It does seem counter intuitive but if you suddenly become emotionally available, it will be seen as too little, too late as long as she is still in an A. Nothing matters until she makes a decision to end the A. In the meantime, you must be working on YOU. If you truly work on making yourself a better person, she WILL see the difference the next time you have an encounter. Going dark doesn't mean that you will never see her or speak to her again. You certainly will and when you do see her again, she needs to be thinking "Who the hell is this guy?"

Also, detaching has nothing to do with her moving out. You can certainly remain attached even with her moved out. Detaching is about not letting her actions/words affect you emotionally. If a stranger that lives down the street has an affair, does that affect you emotionally? Of course not. That's where you need to get with your W. You do that by turning all of your focus inwards and put all your energy on you and your issues. You can't do anything about your W's issues. Those are for her to work out. Detaching is one of the most difficult things you will have to do but its imperative that you find a way to get there.

So, tonight has been really crappy. She came home and I was on computer. I said how was your day, she said busy. I told her that I have found a new IC (because she asked me about it this weekend). She said OK. She went in bathroom and texted OM for about a half our, then came out and said "I just can't do this! I am going out for a while". I texted her when she left:
Me: This is ridicuous
Her: I just can't do this
Me: Ok, I don't know what to do for you.
Her: Just let me go
Me: Come home
Her I really can't
Me: Ok, then have fun. You want me to let you go? What does that even mean......nevermind, I won't discuss it via text. If you want to be an adult and talk you can come home.
Her: I really just can't. I am truly at my emotional end.
Me: Ok, sorry you feel that way.

She's telling you what she wants. She is telling you to "let her go." Anything you do to stand in the way of that will only push her further away.
I know it doesn't make any sense but the way you fight for her right now is by letting her go and by working on yourself.
Like you, I had a history of being very emotionally detached. But when my W finally ended the A and came back, she told me that she saw I was fighting for her and our M EVEN THOUGH I was detached (or at least trying really hard to detach) and dark. She did NOT understand what I was doing while the A was ongoing; it even made her angry. It is only after the A has died, she has experienced loss and has expressed true remorse that she will be able to appreciate the work that you are now trying to do.

Your conversation when she first came home was fine. But you did a backslide when you started texting her. You need to just let her go and stew in the mess that she has created.

Well she texted me just now "Do you really think that we can carry on when I clearly have feelings for someone else?"

Well, I think that does deserve an answer. Quite clearly, the answer is "No."
That's all that needs to be said.

She asked for a divorce...she is done. Completely checked out. She feels as though we never had a healthy relationship and never will. Said she's been thinking about having kids lately and knows that she doesn't want them with me.

I've never been so devastated. I literally can't even get myself out of bed. I can't stop crying. I can't stop thinking about her with another guy...having kids without me.

One thing you have to remember is that right now, she is a crazy person. She has lost her F'ing mind. So long as the A is ongoing, this is the kind of messed up crap that will come out of her mouth. Just let it go. Get her out of the house asap if you can and start working on you. You've got to detach man. A D isn't going to happen over night. It will take time. This time is a gift to spend on doing the things that can turn this situation around: Detach, 180 and GAL. That's all you need to be doing right now.

I also wanted to make another comment on your concerns about doing dark when you, like me, have a history of being emotionally absent. My W and I had a big blow up last October and she told me how unhappy she was. The A hadn't started then; at least not physically. At that point, I heard her pleas and began making changes in my life to try and be a better husband and father. Unfortunately, the A started about this same time and my W pulled further away from me. So what did I do? I pursued. I became more emotionally available. I started being awesome guy. Started working out every single day. Started being more involved with my extended family. Started coming home from work 3 hours earlier every day. But NONE of it mattered at this point because she was in the A. It was only later, after discovering DB, that I learned that about the LRT. When I discovered the A right after discovering DB, I knew I had to go dark and that's what I did.

This is the most miserable, f'ing thing in the world for someone to have to go through. Its not fair to you and its incredibly selfish of her. Many of the people on this forum have been exactly where you are. I've been exactly where you are.
Take your days 1 hour at a time. Force yourself to get out and do stuff. Go to a movie. Go to the gym. Go visit some friends. Try to avoid alcohol if you can because it will not be your friend right now.
Exercise is imperative right now. You need to be doing it every day. Get something for sleep if you need it.

You need to emotionally divorce your W. You need to do that now. That will allow you to eject her from your thoughts and being working on you. THIS is what you have to do to save your M.

I'm so sorry for you brother. Hang in there.

I'm sorry that things seem to be continuing downward. I've been there. And it [censored]. I'm sorry that the hits will keep coming; I hope that you can continue to weather the storm.

1) you need to figure out how to stop yourself from dwelling on what she is doing or will do. Thinking about her future children is a cheeseless tunnel. All it is going is hurting you. How can you work to train your brain to stop that? I used a rubber band on my wrist. After a couple days, I didn't think about what my ex was up to. You can also try visualizing a stop sign when you start to go down that thought road. But however you do it, you must stop.

2) you have got to get out of the house. Not move out. Just get out for a few hours at a time. Go do something. Anything. Go to the gym. Take up a hobby. Go to a meetup. Read a book at a coffee shop. You have got to convince yourself that your life will be ok with or without her. I highly recommend doing something new, but for now, getting out and doing something is good enough.

You say you are lost and want direction. But you e gotten tons of advice and I'm not sure if you've taken that first step. What are you waiting for?

I have taken some of it. I do comprehend the advice given, I am having an extremely hard time following through on it.

Now to make things more complicated. She went to a therapist today that says that we both need some objectivity on the situation before any big commitments are made. I don't disagree with this. The interesting thing that has come up twice now over the past 24 hours is that she is completely confident that we can remain good friends if we decide to divorce. I feel like this is a fantasy, but of course would be hopeful. Anyway, I know I am supposed to take focus off of her and GAL but I just haven't found a way to do so yet. Also, the going dark thing is going to be extremely difficult as she expects us to remain friends and communicate throughout this separation. It looks like for the time being she has put Divorce on the backburner, and is looking at separation again...which I actually agree with even though it will hurt. She said that her therapist said at the next session she can bring me if she chooses to.

On a completely different note: I have an EXTREMELY close relationship with a childhood friend. Him and I literally talk everyday. Apparently this fact along with the fact that I never defended my wife when her and him argued caused the counselor to tell my wife that I might be gay....I found this very interesting. I sure like women a heck of a lot to be gay.

"Anyway, I know I am supposed to take focus off of her and GAL but I just haven't found a way to do so yet."

What's holding you back, exactly?

"Also, the going dark thing is going to be extremely difficult as she expects us to remain friends and communicate throughout this separation."

Are you content with that? Are you willing to move from husband to friend?

And honestly, the going dark is for YOU. It isn't to "get her to realize" anything. It's to give you space you need to be able to detach. It sounds like you are sitting around at home with your free time waiting for her to come around to talk to you.

If you want any chance at resolving this, the first step is to focus on you. Not on her.

Originally Posted By: lostasf

Also, the going dark thing is going to be extremely difficult as she expects us to remain friends and communicate throughout this separation.

Of course she wants to be friends... She wants the best of both worlds. What do you want?

So let me get this straight. Your W is having an A but the problem is that you are likely gay? Nice.
If you want to remain friends after a D, that's fine. But if not, you should tell her that's not how it will be.
Lost, I see that your W is VERY conflicted based on the things you are saying she says. That is a good thing when it comes to having a shot at saving your M. BUT, her world has got to come crashing down around her. The sooner that happens, the sooner things can start to turn around. So let her see you walking out the door. Let her know that you will NOT be friends after a D. Let her know that you will NOT be in an open M and will not tolerate being treated with such disrespect. Then leave it at that. You need to spend this time working on you and you need to leave her in the mess she created. Let her see that you are fine, in fact, better without her. Then go and find out how to be better without her.

Darkness,
I'm not sure what is holding me back. That's what I am really struggling with

Obviously I am not content with moving from husband to friend.

I truly am trying to get myself to start doing things, but I just find myself paralyzed....constantly playing through every scenario, every outcome, and a new one for me is thinking about her having sex with another person and kids. It is absolutely crippling me. I know I sound like a big baby, and quite honestly I feel like it...I just don't know how to pull myself out of it.

Lost,

First, your emotional struggle is normal...
It feels very real and like it is sucking the life out of you...
Emotional injuries can harm us more than any physical injury...
Recognize this...

Now, let's apply some first aid so we can begin to heal...

Google Emotional First aid Ted talk...
Watch it, it is by Guy Winch...

Google and read up on the Stockdale paradox...

Start here to break the paralysis...

I also recommended "The Happiness Advantage" TED talk by Shawn Achor

Originally Posted By: darknes

I also recommended "The Happiness Advantage" TED talk by Shawn Achor

Absolutely agree!

Lost,

You are spinning. It's unbelievably painful and most likely is the hardest thing you will ever deal with in life. We have all been there. None of us can predict your outcome, but we do know that things will get better for YOU over time. If you can follow the advice and steps, you increase your odds of feeling better about yourself, getting stronger, and having better Rs in general. You also increase the change your W will come back. Most likely later. Patience is key. You will learn to be patient.

This takes a long time--marathon, not a sprint! You cannot measure success in a day--it takes weeks, months, and sometimes years. So take life day by day and hour by hour. Some of us have been in the mix for years! My H had an A with OW who I thought was a friend and then left me for her for 10 months. It all started 3 years ago. He has been back a year and a half now. It is still difficult. We cannot control them, but we can control ourselves. We can only grow stronger as we focus inward and start healing.

LiM has also been through h311 and back! His W had a full blown A with her trainer and also did a 180 and came back and is committed to the M. Go back and read both of our sitches. So what I am trying to tell you is that this may get worse before it gets better but things will change. Believe none of what she says right now! All waywards will tell you that they are done, want D, and the M was a mistake, even rewriting history, blah blah blah. They are deep in the fog, feeling desperate and scared, and must say this to try and justify their choices. Don't listen to it! My H said all kinds of ridiculous cr-p and admits now how lost and confused he was at that time.

Right now all you can do is let her go. Do not talk to her, talk about R, cry, beg, yell, threaten, tell her you are done--say NOTHING to her. Stay away from her and focus on you. She is going to go on her own dark journey, and she needs to learn first hand that 1. It is not any better, 2. You are not sitting there waiting desperately and 3. You are starting to look like the better option.

If you can do this, you WILL be the better option. Read Sandis rules every day and live by them. Keep posting here every day. Cry, yell, lean on family and friends and start letting yourself grieve what was and heal from the blows. This is terribly hard but you will get through it.

Lastly, you might be thinking that if she does x, y, z, or has any type of A you are done anyway, and you will want D. That is fine but there is no benefit to doing that now, it hurts more. And I just want to remind you that we all felt that way initially. Feelings change. People change. Life is long. It's time to let her go and start living for you.

Blu

I really appreciate everyone's comments.

My genuine concern now is that she is getting an apartment. I don't really feel comfortable with financing this, as I feel that will be condoning the affair. However anytime I mention separation of finances, she gets defensive and says that means it's over. I guess the issue is I don't know how to separate finances without it seeming like I am asking for a D.

I understand she is leaving and I can't stop her, although I am still struggling with accepting the reality of that. At times I feel like it won't matter much because she's not REALLY there anyway. I mean sure she looks like my wife...but that's about it. Also, she will be taking at least 1 of our 3 dogs with her, and to most people that probably doesn't seem like a big deal; but for me it's a huge deal as one of the things that brought us together was our passion for dogs.

I am now mourning the loss of a dream in that regard too: We have been religious EXTREME savers so that we can retire early and open a dog rescue facility...realistically we would be there at around age 45...that's only 14 years away

You all are right though, I am extremely conflicted. Separate finances, ask for D, expose affair, let her go and just work on me and leave finances the same, and many other options all run through my head on the daily.

Originally Posted By: lostasf

I really appreciate everyone's comments.

My genuine concern now is that she is getting an apartment. I don't really feel comfortable with financing this, as I feel that will be condoning the affair. However anytime I mention separation of finances, she gets defensive and says that means it's over. I guess the issue is I don't know how to separate finances without it seeming like I am asking for a D.

Holy manipulation, batman!!!! because you don't do things the way she wants it's over?

Originally Posted By: lostasf

I truly am trying to get myself to start doing things, but I just find myself paralyzed....constantly playing through every scenario, every outcome, and a new one for me is thinking about her having sex with another person and kids. It is absolutely crippling me. I know I sound like a big baby, and quite honestly I feel like it...I just don't know how to pull myself out of it.

What does all the stuff I bolded have to do with you getting a life?

Thats like saying, Im hungry. I know I should eat, but Im too worried about the economy and the war and global warming to walk to the kitchen.

lostasf -- I just wanted to say I understand what you're going through. I have battled depression and debilitating rumination, and I know that it can just sap all of your energy. Do anything you can to push through it, though, because the doing of things, anything really, will get you going on the path you want to be on. Pick one thing you want to accomplish today that has nothing to do with anything or anyone but you and do it. Then pick another thing. Repeat, over and over. I promise you that you will find relief from the tortuous thinking. It won't happen overnight, but it will break the ruminative cycle long enough to give you some relief.

I would also highly recommend trying to develop a meditation practice. I'm not exaggerating when I say it, along with IC, saved my life; or, more accurately, it gave me the ability/tools to start to live a life again that's worth living.

Originally Posted By: Ginger1

Originally Posted By: lostasf

I really appreciate everyone's comments.

My genuine concern now is that she is getting an apartment. I don't really feel comfortable with financing this, as I feel that will be condoning the affair. However anytime I mention separation of finances, she gets defensive and says that means it's over. I guess the issue is I don't know how to separate finances without it seeming like I am asking for a D.

Holy manipulation, batman!!!! because you don't do things the way she wants it's over?

Exactly. This is the fog we speak of. She is telling you that she has feelings for someone else and is moving out, yet when you mention a practical change, she tells you that YOU are ending it. (Shaking my head) Believe none of what she says and do what is right for you.

There used to be a script on here by Starsky that one could say to the wayward and it involved telling them that it was there choice to leave, that you are willing to work on the M and your part in it, but it involves transparency and commitment. It was simple and to the point and delivered without emotion or anger. Anyone recall it? I am not sure it is time to say it to her, but she is clearly trying to play the blame game. Don't take the bait.

-Blu

Lost,

In my case, it took actually filing for D for things to begin to turn around. Separating your finances is not what will cause a D to happen. It is her A that will cause a D to happen unless you decide you are ok living in an open marriage.
Right now, you are a great back up plan for her. She hasn't lost anything yet. If you separate your finances, she will she that she is losing you and the plans that the two of you had for the future.
Do you want to be her plan B? If not, take your toys (and half your finances) and leave. Go work on yourself and let her see that she is losing you if she doesn't get her $h!t together.

Lost,
hopefully you can find a financial resolution that does not involve D for the interim. Sounds like your W is being very 'my way or the highway' though. It's tricky, for sure. In my case H and I agreed on how we'd split up assets, got separate banking accounts, and are moving forward financially separate, but no D. For some, this is risky, I'm in a community property state so that sort of defines what would happen-- but we both work so there'd most likely not be spousal support, etc. A lot of people on the board are in these semi-precarious financial stages; where the S could go on a wild credit card spree and the LBS is legally on the hook. In my case (and perhaps yours) this is unlikely. Sure, it's possible, but unlikely. And the last few months have proven things are going along smoothly financially anyway, with each of us doing his/her own thing.
Anyway, rushing to D to fix finances seems hasty. Hopefully there's a way you can find that you aren't bankrolling an A but she's doing her thing and you have the time to work on yourself!!

Quote:

I guess the issue is I don't know how to separate finances without it seeming like I am asking for a D.

You don't get it. If she is wayward, the last thing you need to relay is that she can do whatever and you still won't divorce her! Stop being afraid of it. You really have to toughen up or she will make a fool out of you.......while you are financing it.

I agree Sandi. I am just confused as to what to do. Legally Separating finances is definitely the best thing for me financially, as right now she would be amicable and not go after my retirement accounts or the house equity. However, it seems as though she (and some here) have given me mixed feelings on this.

Also, I know that I have asked you guys about the exposing of the affair, and you guys say no. However, I have been reading that other site and it definitely seems that they have had huge success with it. So I am definitely conflicted. If you haven't read about exposing I would strongly urge you to google it (Dr. Harley) and see what you think...it seems to have generated much success.

She looked at some apartments yesterday and they were total dumps so she is supposed to look at more today, but she hasn't told me if she has or not. She said she is looking for a 6-month lease.

Either way she will be out of town in the mountains with her sister this weekend so I am going to really try to GAL and get myself moving in a positive direction.

Link to new thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2707473&#Post2707473