Previous thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2696952#Post2696952EDF,
Thanks for the support and tips. I do visualize GAL activities that don't include the WW. Is it bad that I think about a lot of GAL activities that I can't do now but would be able to do if we separated?
Between my activities and her newfound interest in working out, we will be alternating not being home every night this week. She also works out some mornings as one of her gyms has child care. This is a messed up life...
I might add that my issue is not that my Ww has mood swings, it's that she will go on and on about how bad things are my fault and how I don't have her back. It was a problem before all of this but it's now amplified.
Between my activities and her newfound interest in working out, we will be alternating not being home every night this week. She also works out some mornings as one of her gyms has child care. This is a messed up life...
This has been pretty much my life since April - except W doesn't sleep at home and every other weekend she's gone... Yes it [censored] and is messed up and is confusing on D as to when Mom will be home. On the bright side I get to see D every day - so it's really her loss right now.
*Don't read if you don't feel like crying*
Saw this viral picture of an elderly couple crying and saying good bye to each other, which they have(had) to do now because they were forced to live in separate nursing homes. Brought tears to my eyes and definitely made me think of the future.
Saw this viral picture of an elderly couple crying and saying good bye to each other, which they have(had) to do now because they were forced to live in separate nursing homes. Brought tears to my eyes and definitely made me think of the future
Jug. We all do this early on. I suggest you try to stop it ASAP. It is you beating you up. Makes no sense when you can stand back and see it. It takes time, it all hurts. Be kind to yourself my friend.
Surfer.
Surfer's right. Try not to do this too much. It's the worst feeling in the world. You can get through this. Keep pushing bud.
Thanks for the support, guys.
Had a bad couples mc session. All previous ones have been sidetracked by her complaining about me and I made an extra point to focus on the issue of breaking contact. She said that she can't do it and wants to talk about mediation. Mc didn't/couldn't do much. Just talked about how we should talk. Don't know that I want to go back. I'm more mad than sad. Make detaching easier...
Okay. You will get mad. But let that end quickly - be the guy that sleeps on it and moves on. Don't hold onto it. I find guys are, at times, a little better at this at times.
Get your focus back. Get into the mode where you are conducting business meetings with a person if you can. Keep the kindness, drop the feelings if you can.
You are going in the right direction. 100%.
Keep it up.
Surfer.
Why are you attending MC with a wayward wife? She will simply use it for a H bashing session.
Thanks surfer!
Sandi - you told me that week's ago and I didn't listen. Not going back.
Okay. Sandi is right, but take the cloud's silver lining. At least you have heard what she says to others and some of this might be useful for you to work on.
It's not a fail to have done this. It's a place to say, glad I did it, but I don't need it right now.
Keep going Jug. It's a slow path but you are doing great! Might not feel like it, but you are. Keep focusing on what works - as Sandi says!
Surfer.
Thanks surfer! I hope you are doing ok.
I'm actually in a better place now, more ok with things either way and optimistic that the future will be better. It's not to say that it won't be bumpy and I'm not angry but I truly believe that things will be better than how they have been and are now.
Weekend was actually pretty good, considering. Did a lot with s. Took him to lots of places and he had a good time. Knowing how dire things look with the m, I feel more detached and at peace with the situation. It still angers and sickens me, but I don't feel as sad.
What do you guys do for ws birthdays?
What do you guys do for ws birthdays?
About the worse thing I could have possibly done - I surprised her with a very expensive gift... but I didn't know she was wayward at the time and hadn't got the BD, that came a week after. I think it was one thing that pushed her over the edge for sure.
She acknowledged my B-day a few months later with a nice weekend away but that was very awkward.
If I were to do it again I'd probably shoot her a txt "Happy Birthday - hope you have a great day" and leave it at that.
Thanks for sharing pac. In retrospect, you couldn't have known.
What do you think about attending a birthday party with pro-a siblings that I have no love for? The kicker is that s likes them and his cousin.
My vote is similar to what PacLove said: tell her happy birthday, but don't do anything else. I mean, come on, your W wants to go sleep w/ someone else. The last thing she wants is to celebrate her birthday with you.
I would also skip the party w/ pro-affair siblings. Your son doesn't need to associate w/ pro-affair adults and their families, and you don't need the stress. I would decline the invitation in a friendly but firm way.
My two cents...
Thanks gump. I've gotten her stuff "from our son" and that's it.
I won't go to the party. As much as I would like my s to not associate with them, I don't think I can control that. I didn't make it clear that the party is for me and ww. I hope to go do something fun for me instead.
Suggest you do nothing for birthdays. A card is max.
Just happy birthday. If that.
Probably nothing is better in reality
Surfer.
Jug,
I neatly wrapped a douche bag and gave it to my wife along with a card that said, "thinking of you."
Well, not really, but that would be fun.
Jug,
I neatly wrapped a douche bag and gave it to my wife along with a card that said, "thinking of you."
Well, not really, but that would be fun.
You should do that lol. Pop it in the mail!
She already has a douche bag...
Have you heard of re-gifting? All you need is a card.
About the worse thing I could have possibly done - I surprised her with a very expensive gift... but I didn't know she was wayward at the time and hadn't got the BD, that came a week after. I think it was one thing that pushed her over the edge for sure.
No. She was going on this course without your actions here. We all did this BTW. It's part being kind and part pursuit. You did nothing wrong. It's her journey - her circus. Nothing to do with this action. Forget that. It's just not the case. Move on with this one.
Surfer.
Thanks for all of the entertaining replies. Do those of you with young kids help with gifts and cards from them?
Jug,
Yes, I help my sons get gifts and cards for my XW even if I'm not giving my XW a gift myself. They can't drive and they're limited financially so I help them out.
I have to report that as I am more detached than I have ever been, I sense that ww is nicer and more pursuing than she has been in a while. She has even done more around the house. While it's nice, it doesn't matter if she doesn't break contact with douche bag.
Thanks for all of the entertaining replies. Do those of you with young kids help with gifts and cards from them?
Jug,
My W had a birthday last week and I got her a gift from our sons, but I didn't give her anything. I did tell her happy birthday, but didn't make a big deal out of it.
Haven't written in a while. Followed the advice for the birthday and it was mostly uneventful. Did not go to the party and did my own thing. She claims that she was/is going to break contact. I agreed to go to counseling only to talk about breaking contact and not more stalling. I'm more detached than ever but am definitely more angry. Counseling may not happen for weeks and I plan to talk to her about how continued contact is not ok and I'm not getting less angry about it.
So she now claims to have broken contact. Known avenues of communication have been addressed but it's mostly initiated by me. Went back to couples counseling but I'm looking into get another one as this one doesn't address my trust or healing concerns.
Ww says that she is doing this so that I won't be so angry. She insists that we will never have a romantic or sexual relationship again. One plus is that she is doing more stuff as a family.
I guess there is progress but it certainly isn't all rosy.
She hasn't broken contact for you. If he gets in touch it will happen again. My W broke contact as I spoke to her and the OM seperaty and told them they stop. He contacted again as his grandfather had died. I spotted it, called him and told him to grow a pair and talk to his boyfriends about it not my fcuking wife.
TBH Jug none of it made any difference. The only thing that did happen was I understood, as did family, what she was up to. Which I can't say helps - but at least those that know and don't fall for the BS re-written history know what is really happening. Again not sure how much use this is ultimately.
Our Ws didn't start their journey to make you angry. They don't stop it to stop you being angry. They do it because them or the OM exit stage left because they don't want it anymore or because they are concious that they are being seen for what they are 'wayward' and they my friend is very hard to justify.
Keep going. Zero expectations, don't trust what she says or does. Distance and don't pursue. Look after you and the S4 matey.
Keep it up. You are being a legend to your boy. It's her circus let her crack on. Don't let her shift your emotions! Don't let her entice you onto her rollercoaster.
Surfer.
Thanks for the support and sharing your experience. I can't imagine(actually I can and have) confronting the OM! I was way detached and now I'm actually less so because of the claim of breaking contact. Will keep down this road but my big thing is knowing the right things to do now.
Jug
Keep going. Zero expectations, don't trust what she says or does. Distance and don't pursue. Look after you and the S4 matey.
Penultimate paragraph is what to do. Also GAL of course. Time is a gift. Enjoy it, plan, do great things with your S4.
Turn yourself into amazing you! All boys want to be a superhero, if you can't be even super you it's a bit sh!t. Come on mate. It's simple. Just be you, that legend that your family and mates love. Remember him? That guy that would just tell someone like your W to jog on. Find him again. Stop thinking, start doing.
Surfer.
Thanks again surfer! I've been doing well with self improvement and it's all for me and always has been. In fact, some of those activities have been points of contention in our marriage.
I'm looking at getting a new couples counselor as I feel that our current one keeps trying to address our marriage and not the affair and my trust, healing, and forgiveness. Ww claims she wants to help with this but says that we don't have a chance as a romantic couple. Any tips for finding a new one and specific things to focus on other than what I mentioned?
When checking them out, see if they specialize in healing after an affair. Maybe do a google search for your area? Don't be afraid to call and ask, and don't accept general answers like, "S/he counsels in all areas".
I get a sense that you are wanting your WW to attend so that she becomes aware of the intense pain she's caused......and hoping the C will tell her what she needs to do. If that happens.....great, but frankly, I don't think she's really in that place yet. I think she's telling you just enough to keep you off her back.
Thanks so much sandi! Any other suggestions for things to do at my current stage(just broke contact but says she KNOWS we won't have a romantic or sexual relationship)?
She claims to want to work things out but doesn't always wear her rings. Before this, she never took them off. Is it pursuing to tell her that wearing the rings now shows commitment to trying?
Jug,
In my opinion, asking her to wear her rings is pursuit behavior. A 180 would be to ask her not to wear her rings until she's truly ready to commit to the marriage. (I'm not saying you should do that, I'm just sayin'...)
Thanks doodler. Interesting thought. She is aware of what she's doing so I'm leaning towards saying nothing and let her show her feelings and commitment. That would be detaching.
Any other suggestions for things to do at my current stage(just broke contact but says she KNOWS we won't have a romantic or sexual relationship)?
This is your W trying to get
you to
accept that the M is over and that there's no hope for a future. She wants to be free of the M. When she says these type of statements, you should not argue or say things like
she may change her mind, or
never knowing what lies ahead, etc. This is the wrong thing to say to a WW. In fact, just don't reply at all, or else, say something like, "You may be right".
LBH'S often fear saying something that gives the impression he believes the M is over, b/c they think it influences the W. Well, it does.....but not the way the LBH thinks. It's one thing for her to be the dumper, but she never expects to be the dumped. If he acts as if he is having second thoughts about wanting a woman like her......it can shake her up enough to question her decisions about ending the M.
She claims to want to work things out but doesn't always wear her rings. Before this, she never took them off. Is it pursuing to tell her that wearing the rings now shows commitment to trying?
She lies. You need to watch her behavior. If her behavior doesn't line up with her words, mark it down as lies.
Thanks sandi! That is very insightful. I will definitely respond that way or not at all.
As for watching her behavior, I watch it plenty and am trying not to let it consume me. What should I watch for in particular other than obvious signs of cheating?
I did not mean you should sit around watching her every move. Don't do that! What I was saying is that you cannot believe what she says..........until you can see her actions parallel with her words.
Thanks again Sandi! So now I wait for her to come out of her fog?
Why should you put your life on hold while she is in fantasy land? Instead of spending every day thinking of what you can do to get her back, drop the rope and focus on enjoying your life without her. This may be the only chance you have to do things just for yourself.
It concerns me how many men on the board have become codependent on their W & M. When the W dumps the H, he realizes he doesn't have friends, or much of a life apart from his W. If that's the case with you, maybe you need to discover the man you were before M.
My wife took her's off almost immediately after the BD. Right now she's out of her head. Let her keep them off. It doesn't mean anything if she wearing only because you want her to.
Keep your head up. I feel for you.
Thanks guys. I've done a better job at detaching but am always looking for guidance on things I should and shouldn't be doing at each stage. I have a plan for a life without her. It's not preferred but it's not terrible either
When she sees you are enjoying life and have stopped trying to get her to work on the M, she will temp check you, then when that doesn't work, she'll get angry (or visa versa). But you are cool and don't let it ruffle your feathers. Eventually, when she sees you are not going to bend to her moods or fall for her manipulation tricks, she will feel that she's losing you.........which will be a good thing. When she realizes what she's losing/lost, it will start pulling her out of the fantasy fog.
She has been more pleasant since claiming to have broken contact. More family activities and more meals as a family. Even cooking more. It may not prove anything but it makes home life more pleasant.
Hey Jug, how about an update?
Thanks for looking out Sandi! Your dedication to helping us is something else!
Things on the Homefront continue to be more pleasant. Ww is more communicative, more friendly, less resentful, more involved with our son, and less self-absorbed. No talks about our relationship and no real affection shown. She continues to see her ic and I started with a new one of my own. We will see how this one shakes out but like this one so far. Don't totally trust ww and have not brought up proving no contact. Hope that contact is broken and that she comes out of the fog. Any guidance here is welcome.
I am sleeping better and am less anxious and angry. Stopped going to cbt indefinitely and use breathing exercises from time to time when anxious. The weight that I lost is still off despite the fact that my appetite is back. I'm exercising plenty and staying healthy.
I want to let people who are in similar situations know that things for me only changed (even if what I'm in now isn't great by any means) when I truly detached to the point that I was ready to d and not take any more obvious abuse. Still need guidance and seek it through reading and counseling.
She cannot be trusted right now. There needs to be a transparency plan, b/c just her "word" is no good, currently. What you are currently seeing in her, I believe, is all mirrors and smoke screens. Do not let down your guard and believe any of the trickery. I don't say this to discourage you. I don't want you deceived by what you are currently seeing at home.
You don't have to act cold/mad when interacting with her, just stay on top of your game by not being pulled into believing she is being trustworthy this quickly. You can't be fooled that easily, and you aren't impressed with her playing mom of year for a few days, okay?
When a WW is in an A, she becomes addicted to the high she feels from it. Therefore, when the A suddenly stops.......guess what she's going to experience? She will feel intense urges to contact the OM. It is like a drug addict going through withdrawals. So, if she is not having contact with OM, it won't be many days until she'll get anxious and depressed.
If she seems to be just fine while having family time, and seems to be back to her stuff around the house......except she doesn't want to be your W ......then I would be suspicious of her and OM carrying their A deeper underground. One doesn't bounce back that easily. A WW who can continue contacting her OM, will keep her H living in limbo for years. He thinks that any day now she'll be ready to work on them......but she doesn't.
We have seen WW's who appeared to have ended the A and return to the MR as if nothing ever happened. She did not have to do any work on the M; she showed no remorse; and the LBH would believe everything was fine. Then at some point, he would discover that she had figured out a way to contact OM without her H knowing.
Wait till next week sometime, and then ask to see her phone (when you see it in the same room and she doesn't have to go "find it"). Don't give her warning, and don't wait for her to delete anything, and don't go into a R talk. If she's hesitant to hand it over, then I'd be very suspicious that she has something to hide.
FWIW, she can turn around and become a loving and faithful W. It will be hard for her, if she really does the work, but it is very possible. She should be willing to do whatever you need to feel safe in the MR. She should be willing to do whatever it takes to save her M. But for her to tell you upfront how it will be (no romantic or intimate R) is not her call. This is your call. You are the one who was betrayed. Just don't take her back without her doing something to make things better between the two of you. She should not reap the benefits of M, without the responsibilities in the relationship.
Thanks again Sandi! This is gold. One thing is that she has been pretty consistently sick with headaches and stomach issues for the past few weeks. I'd like to think it's a sign of withdrawal but know that it could be a coincidence.
As for not wanting to be my W (specifically romantic), wouldn't that take a while even if she did break contact?
I've definitely been thinking about he possibility of her taking things deeper underground and appreciate the guidance because I need that plan.
Mate.
Thanks for dropping by on me. Much appreciate compadre.
Take it steady son. All in good time.
Surfer.
So I did a phone audit tonight per sandi's suggestion and she agreed begrudgingly. I'm satisfied with it for now. She then said this is no way to live but claimed she wants me to heal. I told her that I know this is unpleasant.
She met with her ic today who she claims said that her breaking contact was a good thing.
She's not happy right now but I'm not gonna budge on trying to build trust.
The attitude towards the audit before and after aren't great signs. Any insight is welcome and appreciated.
So she's more than just not happy about the phone audit; she's thinking of leaving and she will never do it again. I said I'm open to ideas for things to build trust.
Ww is planning to make an appointment to meet with my ic by herself to give them her perspective of our situation and me. I don't see the harm, even if she is looking to bash me.
Hey Jug,
Thanks for dropping by my thread.
I think it's a good thing she's meeting with your IC. Maybe you can get some more info on what her perspective is on the whole sitch. If she truly just broke contact with OM of course she's not going to jump right back into being affectionate with you until he's out of her system. In the meantime you need to keep working on you. With him out of the picture and her being able to clearly see the "New Jug" she would be a fool to leave. Just don't be too quick to jump back in yourself. Make her prove that she deserves another chance with you.
I believe I suggested to wait till the following week. You did it that night. Anyway, the point is to have a transparency plan. It should be discussed with your W. Tell her you need her to be transparent, in order to rebuild trust in the MR. And also, it will help her stick to her resolve to not contact the OM. It's not for you to sit in judgement of her, but it is to help repair the MR. It's not good enough for her to say you'll just have to believe her, or not. It's not like she will have to do this for the rest of her life.
If she thinks you are just looking at her phone from time to time, she will resent you. She won't understand the point of transparency. But if she agrees to be transparent, b/c she wants a chance to prove herself and earn your trust.......then she should not have a stinking attitude about it.
Just remember, she is the one who has to earn YOUR trust, not the other way around. Many WW's will twist it around and the LBH feels as if he needs to earn her trust. No, b/c she was the cheater, not the H.
She is not the one who is learning all this information. So, don't expect her to just know what to do. Of course she isn't happy! She's not going to be happy until she goes through the withdrawal period and gets OM out of her system. If her IC is worth his/her salt, he/she will explain how affairs are addictive.
Wow. Thanks again Sandi! Your last post stuck with me and I did it the next day. Could you explain why you suggested this week instead? Since she doesn't know what to do, how does she come up with a transparency plan? What are some examples?
I have lots of books on the subject and most just say that the ws needs to be forthcoming and willing to share everything. That's not the case here and the resentment that you called out is already there.
Your comment in your previous post about ww going deeper underground and the lbh waiting around like a fool is what fired me up as I've already done that dance.
I want to let you know how much I appreciate your dedication to the people on this board.
Had a good ic session last night. The biggest thing was that she believes that I need to work out a transparency plan with a couples counselor especially because of ww's ambivalence. She has already referred a promising one.
Have an appointment with a new couples counselor next week. Communication has been better. Today she brought up looking for a job again, which throws me off.
This weekend involves seeing the sisters in law, who have said that they thought that the om was good for her. My ic put it in perspective, asking whether they had it in them to speak against her actions. Since the answer is no and I want to have a relationship, I should go. I can and do feel betrayed but will deal with that later.
The visit was fine and uneventful, as was the day in general. Maybe it's due to my hypersensitivity, but ww seems extra shady with her phone again. Going to a new couples counselor tomorrow and will see what comes of that.
Counselor presented two options for counseling: 1) put our differences aside and work to see what we can do 2) work out a separation agreement
I'm only there for one of those options. Will discuss this with my ic and then talk to ww about it.
Ww seems to be less involved and stuff again.
Holding pattern. Had some days and times that were pleasant but ww has been less involved in family stuff. She has been sick and tired a lot too but there's energy for her to go to the gym. She offered to show me some stuff on her phone after she noticed that I was bothered by it one day. She had an overnight trip with her sister to a concert that was difficult for me but we talked about the itinierary and the significance of it. My feelings about the whole situation and what I want to do can change a lot even in a day. We will go to the new couples counselor this week and I won't go again unless she will work on option one. (See above)
Had a bad fight last night. Short story is that there was a miscommunication that I acknowledged and apologized for. She kept repeating that it was so terrible and how could I do this. I said that I acknowledge what I did and apologize and repeating (which is what the pattern has been for our marriage) was unproductive and I wasn't going to take it. She said that she could speak her mind or I could leave. I said that she could leave and more yelling and swearing ensued. She said that she was done and didnt say too much more. This was a case of amplified anger due to resentment. I don't know what's coming but am less scared of it. Good thing I'm meeting with my ic tonight.
Jug,
I'm sorry about the fight. In my opinion, I think it's often somewhat contrived. Not that a specific event is premeditated, but in the broad sense of things, you're setup to fail regardless of what you do. Thus, there are lots of arguments because you've been cast as the bad guy.
A year ago, on Thanksgiving morning, I said something to my wife regarding her and the OM. I didn't say it in anger and I didn't say anything mean or nasty, but she had me feeling like I'd said the worst thing that I could've ever said to anyone. I profusely apologized and tied to make things better. She made my life pure h3ll the entire Thanksgiving holiday.
Several months later I was talking to my IC about that Thanksgiving morning. I said, "You know, looking back, there was nothing wrong with what I'd said." My IC nodded her head and said, "That's right."
You're setup to fail; when you realize you're in a no-win situation then you realize you're wasting your time, energy and breath trying to have some sort of reasonable outcome. You have to let it go.
Thanks doodler. I should have walked away to cool off.
Listen, here is what happens. She never truly broke communication with the OM. If she had really ended things with him, she would have felt depressed and would not have bounced back into being the great mother, etc., b/c she has to detach emotionally from her OM and withdrawal crom the addiction the A caused. I don't think most H's look at it like an addiction, but it is. The period of withdrawals is not a pleasant experience! She would slowly get back to normal.
Anyone can pretend the A is over for a few days.....to fool the H. So, she cooks and is "pleasant", and the H thinks she is doing great! Then, she begins finding ways to be gone from home overnight, the weekend, or whatever. Having a friend or relative lying to cover the WW is not an original idea your W has had. Many WW's have others helping them go deeper underground with their A.
And here is what happen with you and with Doodler. The WW is just waiting for the H to say one thing, or do the slightest thing...........and she goes off! B/c she is looking for an excuse to switch things around to be your fault. She acts as if you've committed the unpardonable sin, tells you she's done, and tells friends she just can't forgive you......yada, yada. I don't make this stuff up. It makes no sense, but nothing about the WW makes sense from the get go.
She snowed you! It's all been smoke and mirrors. That's why you cannot just take her word as the truth. That's why you can't trust her. And, that's why MC won't work as long as she's in an A.
For future references, she doesn't provide the transparency plan. You should tell her what you will need from her. If she is serious about saving the M, then she should be willing to do whatever you need to feel safe in a MR with her. She is the offender, you are the offended.
The reason I initially told you to wait about a week before checking her phone, was b/c she will delete anything that would suggest she is lying about her activities, if she knows in advance when you will look at her phone. A week or so after the WW who lies and claims she has ended her A, and she sees her H is not checking her phone........she will get careless. Even if a WW honestly claims to end the A, the withdrawals will be kicking her a$$ about two or three weeks later. Verifying her activities while she's withdrawing from her addiction is extremely important.
Thanks Sandi! I think I understand now. To clarify, if she isn't willing to do what I need, we gotta separate?
Jug,
If I had it to do over again, I'd build a big wood stock in my backyard so I could shackle my wife in the backyard rather than actually separate. I could check on her every two or three days and give her a little food and water.
That would save a lot of money and she'd probably snap out of the fog a little more quickly. I'm not recommending that you build a stock, but it might be something to consider.
Thanks doodler. Winter is coming and I don't live in Florida...
What alternatives do you suggest?
No alternatives, just give her a warm blanket. Maybe an occasional small fire if you're seeing signs of frostbite.
Counselor presented two options for counseling: 1) put our differences aside and work to see what we can do 2) work out a separation agreement
Is this the same counselor that advised a transparency plan?
Thanks Sandi! I think I understand now. To clarify, if she isn't willing to do what I need, we gotta separate?
Well, that depends. How long are you willing to live in this situation?
Sandi-
This counselor did not advise a plan.
I'm not willing to live in this situation any longer...
Ww is barely speaking to me. We have counseling tomorrow. Guess we will see how that goes.
What is your reason....or point.... in attending C with your W tomorrow?
What do you hope will be accomplished?
I see it as one of the last chances to see if she is willing to work on anything. If not, I won't be going again. At the very least, it will be a venue to communicate.
Turns out our couples counseling is next week. She's barely speaking to me and not participating in family things like dinner. Getting close to the end of my rope.
I truly wish we had never done Mc. It made things far worse. It escalated her wanting out more than anything.
Think of it. She's on the fence as it is...the last therapist gave 2 options. One which was unacceptable to you and another which she couldn't commit to. Be very very cautious on mc. So many therapists claim to be couples but very few are trained for it. Check out gottman therapists if any.
Look into emotionally focused therapy (Sue Johnson) as well -- has about the only peer-reviewed and verified success rates that I've ever been able to find. Everything else is dubious as best as nearly as I can tell. And it should be with someone who focuses on MC, not someone who does it on the side or only as a small part of their practice.
I'm not sure it ever works if both parties aren't at least somewhat open to R, though -- just can't see how it could.
J20 and jruss-
Thanks for the advice and good luck with your situations. Searching for good therapists is very hard. Marriage counseling and affairs often show up as part of long list of things they "specialize" in.
Straight out ask what percentage of their practice is couples/marriage. Ask them if they are pro marriage.
Like I said. I wish I had known more about real couples therapy before we just went with a couple of referrals. What a waste of time, money, and perhaps the marriage.
Update:
Session last week was worst ever. Counselor actually pushed us towards D. Discussion was focused on her fear of me, which I always responded with the fact that I have never threatened or done anything violent but have sworn and yelled. On the drive away from the session, I got right into terms and then she said that divorce is not what she really wants. I said it's not what I prefer but if she's not gonna work on anything, it is our only option. I proposed that we really address her fear, which I own I never validated before. In the coming days, she agreed to work on it. I found an eft therapist that looked good(thanks jruss!) and we contacted them but haven't heard back yet. Had my ic session last and my ic said that my plan sounded good but was concerned about whether ww really wants to work on the fear. After getting home, we talked about all of this and she now says that she doesn't know what she wants to do. She has been saying this at every "stage." For someone who says that she is afraid of me and that things are worse and worse, doing nothing isn't much of a break. Not that anything else about this makes any sense.
Sandi asked how long I'm willing to live like this and I'm trying to figure it out. Can living like this ever lead to reconciliation?
Still wondering why the heck you keep going to MC darn well knowing it has made things worse? Are you a glutton for punishment?
Fair question. Since your warning/advice, I've "only" gone that one time to find out what I already suspected. Yes, pretty dumb. Won't go back without an agenda. Default plan is to not bring it up and db for a while. I've reflected and realized that many of my efforts have been slipping so they are worth working on. Anything else you recommend?
As mentioned above, I've been working on adhering to the rules and detaching. I stopped checking on her and asking about her day. Re-reading the rules and the discussion helps. Trying to really give her space.
The struggle for a while has been the balance between giving her space and transparency in her not talking to om.
One positive thing is that I have been connecting with ww when she complains about current events. I've been conscious of not trying to propose solutions and just validate. This has led to more nice talks and time together.
Hi Jug...
Hope yo are doing well.
Hey Jug
How are things going now? Your sitch resonates with me, as I am living with a WW who will not break contact with OM (online EA).
Sandi's given me some 2x4's and she's right, I just haven't managed to find my b@lls yet.
Did you separate your sleeping arrangements? I can't recall seeing, apologies if I missed it.
Anyway, best of luck, especially at this time of year, I know things hit harder around special occasions.
Hey Jug
How are things going now? Your sitch resonates with me, as I am living with a WW who will not break contact with OM (online EA).
Sandi's given me some 2x4's and she's right, I just haven't managed to find my b@lls yet.
Did you separate your sleeping arrangements? I can't recall seeing, apologies if I missed it.
Anyway, best of luck, especially at this time of year, I know things hit harder around special occasions.
Our situations are very similar. I read sandi's post on your thread and it definitely hit home.
Things are far from great. Enforcing boundaries is tough when living together. Still sleep in the same bed but no ml for a long time.
I feel for you with the ongoing ea. It's not for certain that my ww's is over. All I can say is that you have to be willing to end things if you need an affair to end. I'll be watching your thread...
Hi Jug,
What are you doing to GAL? Are you making yourself scarce when your WW is around? If you are around her, call your friends on the phone, make jokes with them and laugh. It will lift your spirits immensely and become apparent that you don't NEED her to fill your time or give you care.
Recently I have been renewing my friendships and the few times I am around WH I spend texting friends and giggling. This has had a weird side effect of piquing his interest. I find him wandering close to me and trying to peak at my phone. I have started GAL a way that I enjoy, since I am female that usually means chatting with friends and family. Guys bond a bit differently, call a friend and get out of the house. Let your WW come home to an empty place a few times. Wear your cologne and nice clothes. Most importantly, find something that brings you happiness, this has the effect of making you look sexy and handsome. Confidence is an aphrodisiac.
Hi Jug,
What are you doing to GAL? Are you making yourself scarce when your WW is around? If you are around her, call your friends on the phone, make jokes with them and laugh. It will lift your spirits immensely and become apparent that you don't NEED her to fill your time or give you care.
Recently I have been renewing my friendships and the few times I am around WH I spend texting friends and giggling. This has had a weird side effect of piquing his interest. I find him wandering close to me and trying to peak at my phone. I have started GAL a way that I enjoy, since I am female that usually means chatting with friends and family. Guys bond a bit differently, call a friend and get out of the house. Let your WW come home to an empty place a few times. Wear your cologne and nice clothes. Most importantly, find something that brings you happiness, this has the effect of making you look sexy and handsome. Confidence is an aphrodisiac.
Thanks for stopping by. I have plenty of gal activities, mostly physical ones. I've lost weight from this ordeal directly and indirectly because I've exercised more. I consider myself in good shape. Could I do more non exercise activities? Probably.
The calling in front of her thing is an interesting idea. She is constantly on her phone (fb) and I find it rude so I avoid that kind of stuff. I talk to my friends plenty but not around her. When I'm around her I keep busy with things like watching tv or reading.
I could not resist Jug....
I wanted to be post 100...
Now you can start a new thread.
What are some of your New Years goals in your Journey?
Time to 180, make sure to talk and laugh with your friends, if you are on the phone and in her presence all the better. This does two things, makes you look appealing (when others seek your company it makes you look alluring) and also will help you immensely with your mood. You are not alone, you are loved and people love being around you. It's more important for you to remind yourself but it will likely pique her interest. You will remain cool and confident. You are in control!