So, my wife asked me to take my son to the park on Saturday so she could clean up his room and would meet us. 30 minutes later she meets us, and announces the car is packed and she's leaving. She took my son for the day, obviously the worst day of my life. I was able to get to my friend's house so I didn't completely crumble, but I'm devastated.
First off, we've had problems. She tried to leave us in January, but I was able to get her to stay. I worked on a lot, and she admitted I had done pretty well and have become not just a good but great Dad. However, the underlying problems are still there obviously. She didn't really change, which I think is the main issue although I know I have lots of work to do too. She's unhappy, and says she has been for a while. Our communication has been horrible, we're quick to anger, know how to go for the jugular in arguments, and care too much about winning than solutions. We've argued about our son a lot. He does speech therapy and has to find a new preschool. All of the issues and questions with our son have stressed her out. She is a constant worrier, and lives in the moment while I'm always thinking about long term.
She says we're separated, and I've come to accept that. For the first few days I was in tears hours during the day, whether I had my son or she did. I want to work it out. There's nothing terrible like infidelity, drinking, stealing, etc. but we have lots of little things. She obviously needs to find herself, and says our son deserves 2 happy parents. I agree with her fully here. She has also said it's too late to work on things, and I refuse to accept that. I think there are a million ways we can improve and work together to keep this family intact, but I know I'm going to have to go through the hell of letting her find herself.
Yesterday was a milestone for me. I'm totally committed to this family, my wife and son.I haven't cried since reading, and have created a list of short and long term goals for myself. I have started a list of daily improvements, no matter how small they may be. And I followed the author's advice and wrote down a mantra to say each morning for 3 weeks, something along the lines of "I want to have a great marriage and am learning new skills to do so!" Sounds silly, but it feels good to say in the mirror.
My copy of The Divorce Remedy is arriving at my nearby library soon. What I've read here so far has increased my hope not just for my marriage, but for myself and my son. I stopped begging, pleading with my wife and am secluding texts/phone calls to my son as much as possible. I'm focusing on me, and not her. And I'm worrying about how I'm going to improve today not what I'm scared of 3, 6 or 9 months in the future. I've asked my wife why she hates me, and she says she doesn't. I know the candle still burns. It's dim sure, but it still burns. I'm prepared to work HARD and make the best effort possible for my family.
If anyone has any advice, questions, etc please share!!!
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Thank you. I lurked here for hours yesterday, so I've read over some of the links already. Especially the rules. I'm planning on doing more when my son is with her, and am really going to use the time she's away as best I can. I'll continue to soak up as much info as possible and am excited for my Divorce Remedy to arrive at my library.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
I definitely won't tell her! Thanks again!!
Any advice would be welcome!
RSG, this is a tough but critical time, it's time for you to give space, validate, and keep working on yourself. It sounds like you already know this and your taking steps to take it one day at a time. I really don't even know what to suggest because it seems like your on the right track.
The only thing I can think of is you may want to take a class, or read a book, on anger management and/or communicating. These will help you in the long run, but for now don't communicate, just validate. Be a great dad and focus on yourself, it's a long road and you need to start with yourself.
Read all the homework especially Sandi's threads.
Your wife is following the script and its time to stop
pursuing her, begging and pleading.
You can only FIX yourself not her.
Have you read chapter one in Divorce Remedy linked above?
RSG,
Sorry that you find yourself here. The first few weeks are definitely the toughest. You world has been turned upside down and your head is spinning. We all understand that feeling here. You found the right place to help you get through this.
The very first thing to understand is that you CAN NOT beg, plead or talk to your W about your marriage. She has been planning this for a long time. There is a wall there now and no matter what it won't come down quickly. I know it's tough to hear, but the person you were closest to is now furthest from helping you.
You will find out that this is all about helping yourself be best you that you can be.
When you do that it may save your M, but worst case you will save yourself
Please tell us more about your situation.
How long have y'all been together? Married? Kids? Ages?
What are the main problems that you know about? What are yours? What's are hers?
The more information you can share, the better the forum can help
Hang in there. It will get better
Most of all you must understand that this is a marathon not a sprint.
This didn't happen overnight and it won't be fixed overnight
I'm TRYING to do those things. I've read them and am trying. I'm taking care of my son, and had a great time playing in the pool with him. I almost lost it, because this is something we loved to do as a family. But I didn't. I told myself to stay strong, because I'm working for my son.
I've read a book on separation, and I'm picking up my copy of DR from the library tomorrow. I'm trying to validate. It's something I started on my own, somewhat, earlier this year.
It's hard to not ask her about us, and only talk about our son and how she's doing at work, what she's doing on Memorial Day,etc. I'm doing a good job keeping the texts, calls to a minimum and trying to be a friend. But it's HARD. I'm one of those people that fears the unknown!!
I have read much of the homework.
I am also fighting the urge to ask her about us whenever I see her. In the moment I'm dying to, but later on I realize it'd be terrible because whenever I see her it's a quick moment that doesn't lend itself to discussion.
I've tried to access the chapter on numerous computers but it doesn't work. That said, I'm picking up my copy from library tomorrow!
The more I talk to her, I see that talking about us is just going to reinforce her choice. That's not to say it's not difficult. It's hard for everyone, but harder for those of us who hate not knowing what's going on.
I've decided to keep texts related to our son, or to how she's doing at work, etc unless she asks about me.
I'm trying to work on myself. Doing reading, encouraging myself, trying to get into a couple things to get out with friends when I can, etc.
My situation: We've been together for about 5 years and married for 3+. We have a wonderful 3 year old boy who we both love to death.
I'll start with my problems. I took her for granted, in general. She'd cry about something, and I'd just tell her it's no big deal and get over it. I didn't compliment her like I should have. I didn't talk to her in a way that made her feel good. I'm quick to freak out when I'm not in control of things, and she doesn't like that at all.
As for her, she's chronically unhappy and that kind of runs downhill. She doesn't like to talk about things and will shout me down. She likes to tell me what to do.
We both have poison tongues, but she can do some real damage with hers.
I'm trying to take it slow. All that stuff above hurts, especially those things I've done wrong. I started improving after she tried to leave in January, but I didn't think she was terribly serious so I didn't look into books, strategies, etc.
I'm just trying my best to be a friend, great Dad, and to make myself better. I still run the gambit of emotions, but am better able to manage it now because I have clear goals. I'm scared to death, and I think she is too. But, I'm dead set to work on what I can and when she's ready, to work on us!!
As for her, she's chronically unhappy and that kind of runs downhill.
She doesn't like to talk about things and will shout me down.
She likes to tell me what to do.
So you married someone who is depressed?
You both want to be in CONTROL?
How old are both of you?
Hang in there RSG. No better place to throw out your thoughts. Don't throw any at her just us! And don't forget to add to others threads, because you reinforce your own beliefs when you help others.
I was/am very controlling, to the clothing she bought, the food she ate, the places we went - all me! I'm starting to learn to "lose" that control for her. I can only control myself, the rest is all noise.
I don't think she's depressed, but can't find what makes her consistently happy. She has good moments, but then gets stressed about something else. It seems to me right now she's trying to see if it's the marriage that is causing her to be unhappy. The don't believe anything she says thing is hard, but I can see it. She puts on a tough face, but is a soft person. Yesterday she said she's "doing great" but just a little tired and said she went to bed around 8.
Neither of us like being told what to do. We have tended to TELL the other person things rather than asking, and coming up with something mutually. She's a preschool teacher, and I've felt like sometimes she talks to me like one of her kids. But instead of addressing it, I'd just get angry or make a snide comment.
I'm about to be 35, she is 32.
I don't think she's depressed, but can't find what makes her consistently happy. She has good moments, but then gets stressed about something else. It seems to me right now she's trying to see if it's the marriage that is causing her to be unhappy.
RSG
She has to make herself happy it is NOT the marriage but their is no way you can tell her that, she must figure it out on her own.
Not being happy is a sign of depression.
Sorry!
[quote=RSG]
RSG
She has to make herself happy it is NOT the marriage but their is no way you can tell her that, she must figure it out on her own.
Not being happy is a sign of depression.
Sorry!
My mom mentioned depression might be possible. As much as I hurt, I want her to be happy. I hope this time helps her to figure things out. Also, I have to do my part to help and show her that I'm happy. Our son wears a smile 24/7, so he does his part! Is there anything else I can do to help her, that won't feel like pressure or stress?
My mom mentioned depression might be possible. As much as I hurt, I want her to be happy.
I hope this time helps her to figure things out.
Give her as much space as possible.
You didnt break her and you can not FIX her.
[quote=RSG]
Give her as much space as possible.
You didnt break her and you can not FIX her.
Right. I'm trying hard with that. I looked up signs of depression, and she does have some of them. I'm going to try to just be available and a friend until she says otherwise.
I'm going to try to just be available and a friend until she says otherwise.
I would suggest to treat her like someone you see on the street.
You don't go tell them to smile and be happy,
or to DO anything.
You are just friendly if they approach you.
Read the Lighthouse thread.
The Lighthouse does not run all around trying to guide ships into the harbor.
It just shines bright and lets the ships find there own way.
I read that. Great analogy! 😊
To sum this another way...........the H must take a stand. He is the lighthouse. She is out there in the waves being tossed around by her emotions. When she looks at him, she needs to see him standing tall and strong. He shines a beam of light to show her how to get back into a healthy MR. It is up to her to follow the lighted way or remain in stormy waters. When he tells her what it will take to save the MR, that is shinning the beam of light..........he is showing her the way back. It takes a great deal of strength to stand firmly and not crash under the strain. If the lighthouse is sending mixed messages.......well, you can see what a mess it could be.
Here is another anaology of the lighthouse that Sandi2 said in my thread, I thought it was a great explanation of what it means. Let them know what they have to do do to return to the marriage, and wait for them to do those things.
RSG,
I just read your thread and I am very sorry you are here.
I failed miserably at following the rules and being the lighthouse. Please, listen to the folks on this site. They know what they are talking about. I was a hard headed guy who thought he could fix anything. Now I know that you cant fix people.
My situation has been going on since March of 2015. I hope you guys are able to resolve the issues sooner than later but get ready for the long haul. I never thought I would still be going through the emotions this long.
It sounds like you are on the right track and are doing much better than I did. Just hang in there.
TK
However, the underlying problems are still there obviously. She didn't really change, which I think is the main issue although I know I have lots of work to do too.
What if she never changes? Would you accept her the way she is.....for the rest of your lives?
I actually sympathize with you, but I've learned as long as we wait for the other spouse to change....the more stress we put on ourselves. If we allow their actions to affect us negatively, we soon look like the enemy in their eyes.
You cannot make her change to suit you. You cannot control her. So, what's left? Your decision.
Our communication has been horrible, we're quick to anger, know how to go for the jugular in arguments, and care too much about winning than solutions.
Yep, understand very well. Here's the thing......you two continue doing the same action but expect different results. It doesn't work that way. So, what can YOU do (not
her, but you) to
learn how to communicate more effectively?
Which is most important to you.......winning in a conversation battle on who is right......or being happy?
She says we're separated, and I've come to accept that.
Are her reasons for separating based on that she's been unhappy for years?
Have you seen this trainwreck coming?
Is she going to physically live in a separate house, or stay under the same roof with you?
Word of advice, don't try to persuade her by talking. Obviously, that doesn't work well. Use this time to find the guy you use to be....or become better than he was.
And seriously, check into learning effective communication. It may not just be
her, if you know what I mean.
Thanks, I appreciate it. Yeah, I'm getting ready for the long haul. And doing my best to follow the advice here!
Sandi, wow. Eye opening stuff, thank you!!
Let me address these one by one:
1)Yes, I'm prepared to accept her as she is. I know I can change my reactions to things, and my communication. You really opened my eyes about my reactions. Eye rolling, groaning, etc are things she really hates. I have worked on them, but I know I can work even harder and come as close to eliminating them as possible. Basically you put it down to accepting her as is, or getting out. I like that.
2) Sometimes it hasn't even been "winning" but just complaining. Showing respect from the beginning can really change the outlook of a conversation.
3) No I haven't seen this coming, but her reason for separating is because she's been "unhappy for a long time." I thought there were a lot of things affecting her, but, from my point of view, she's trying to see if eliminating the marriage can make her happy. She took some of her clothes and perfume and moved to a friend's house. I'm definitely using this time for me. Working on myself, doing things to get out, eating better, being a great Dad for my son, etc.
I'm definitely working on my communication. And have done a good job keeping my conversation, in person, via phone and text, secluded to our son and whatever she wants to talk about. I don't instigate anything. (It ain't easy!)
Sandi, wow. Eye opening stuff, thank you!!
Let me address these one by one:
1)Yes, I'm prepared to accept her as she is. I know I can change my reactions to things, and my communication. You really opened my eyes about my reactions. Eye rolling, groaning, etc are things she really hates. I have worked on them, but I know I can work even harder and come as close to eliminating them as possible. Basically you put it down to accepting her as is, or getting out. I like that
I may be wrong, but I don't think that Sandi was saying to accept her as is.. Your W told you to take your kid to the park, then she packed up her $hit and bailed... Think about that, are you gonna live life wondering if she will be there when you get home?
I think That you need to work on yourself, including your communication, then she needs to "want" to be with you, want it enough that she is willing to do whatever it takes to make you two succeed... How things are aren't working, you are worth having a W that will tell you when there are issues, or at the very least, tell you when they are leaving you.. Work on you.
I may be wrong, but I don't think that Sandi was saying to accept her as is.. Your W told you to take your kid to the park, then she packed up her $hit and bailed... Think about that, are you gonna live life wondering if she will be there when you get home?
I think That you need to work on yourself, including your communication, then she needs to "want" to be with you, want it enough that she is willing to do whatever it takes to make you two succeed... How things are aren't working, you are worth having a W that will tell you when there are issues, or at the very least, tell you when they are leaving you.. Work on you.
You're right. My Mom told me that as well. I'm just trying not to let anger get the best of me. I'm working on putting the past behind me, except as a reference. I am working on me. Doing my best to take care of me, and my son, and to let her communicate at her own pace. Cadet said she shows depression signs, and when I looked up the symptoms I agreed him. Actually, today she told me she's going to schedule a Dr's appointment when time allows because she's been having chronic headaches, tummy troubles and sleeps terribly. I'm starting DR today, so my techniques should be improving quickly.
Actually she told me she's going to schedule a Dr's appointment when time allows because she's been having chronic headaches, tummy troubles and sleeps terribly.
All more signs of the terrible stress and turmoil she is in, which is all self induced and you did not cause.
IE - DEPRESSION
She will deny it most likely as that is part of the script and I doubt that anti depressants will help her also.
I agree she will deny it to me, but hopefully a doctor will be able to ask her about things and she'll answer them honestly.
I'm really trying to take the lighthouse to heart, and be that beacon of light.
Little update: It's been a week today since she left. She's at her parent's this weekend, and I have our son. She's constantly critiquing me about what he eats, when, naps, etc. When we talk/text, we only discuss our son and what's going on with her. I haven't initiated anything, and she doesn't ask about me.
Question: When she says something like "I'm going on the boat" should I be saying something like "have fun" or give a more non-descript response?
I'm working hard on detaching, GAL and being a lighthouse.
Does she love going out on the boat? If so, maybe respond with "I know how much you love boating, have fun"...
when you mention what your doing, your not mentioning validating, you need to add that, it's one of the most important things for now.
Also, regarding her critiquing your parenting, have you cared for your son in the past? If not, and your really having difficulty figuring all out, you may want to have a conversation about it. I would start by saying that you are not ok with her constant critiquing of the care you are providing son, but you understand she is concerned about different schedules impacting your S, so you would like to discuss how the care can be provided by both of you seemlessly.
Create a schedule / plan, include nap times, meal times, play times, etc., anything that needs to be addressed.
I think this will allow you to let her know you are not ok with being critiqued (boundary), validate her feelings, and show that you are a great dad and want the best for you S.
I am not a vet, but these are my thoughts on your sitch.
I've cared for my son plenty, and she has told me many times I'm a great Dad. So, I think it's that she misses him and whatnot but it still bothered me. I was good, and didn't let anger take over, but told her I'd do better today about what he ate.
Yes! I'm working on validation too! I never really realized how important that is. She's going on her Dad's new boat and I know she likes being out on the lake with him. I just said "have fun." Whenever she talks about something, I try to be impersonal but friendly. She tried to take the dog out for me and was angry he didn't "use it" and I just said thanks for taking him out. She's said she's tired when dropping off my son so won't want to talk much, and I said ok I'll keep it minimal so you can get rest (and I did). Things like that.
I wish I could see a transcript of this script lol!
I've thoroughly decided to choose happiness. Each day is a new opportunity, whether I have my son for the day or not. I know of plenty of things I can do that I hadn't been because I put family first. I recall she's said in the past that I don't do much, so she'll be surprised to see me out and about.
I'm working to make each day fun for me. I have hope for my marriage and my family, but I know it starts with ME!!
If you wanna read the script just check the first 5 - 10 pages of everyone's thread... Most are having an EA or PA, but A or not, the script is almost always the same after bomb drop
Oh, and take heed of you read mine, my wife's EA started after ILYBINILWY speech, she says it had a lot to do with me pursuing her all the time for that first week... Another example of why pursuing is BAD...
Oh, and take heed of you read mine, my wife's EA started after ILYBINILWY speech, she says it had a lot to do with me pursuing her all the time for that first week... Another example of why pursuing is BAD...
I stopped pursuing after a couple days, and the tears stopped (in general) a day after that. I'm def 100% on me and my son. I've read some of the stories, and I read similar statements that my wife made. I guess after that, it's just how each person reacts to the other. When my wife left to go visit her parents yesterday PM, we talked for about 10 minutes about the weekend and our son. I sounded pretty normal, smiled and told her to be safe.
Welp, as I'm typing this and feeling positive my wife calls to say she is dropping herself from our shared phone plan and at the store getting a new one. Minor setback? Or is this a big deal?
Welp, as I'm typing this and feeling positive my wife calls to say she is dropping herself from our shared phone plan and at the store getting a new one. Minor setback? Or is this a big deal?
Neither. It is just part of the process for a WAS/WW.
You really do not want to worry nor focus on it. It is her behavior and should have no affect on what you are doing to focus on yourself.
I hear you. You're right. It's just a phone plan, not divorce papers. She could always switch back. Thank you for that little bit of encouragement! Gotta keep on with ME and my son!!
When she called me to get the account number and PIN, I was flustered because I was making lunch and it took me by surprise. She got angry when I couldn't get info for her right away. But I remained cool, got her the info requested and asked what kind of phone she was getting. She's getting an iPhone and said I should get one too so we could do facetime for our son. Not a bad idea actually, though I don't care for Apple products.
Don't know that this applies to your W, just saying that some young women have the whole fairy tale fantasy about marrying her prince and living happily ever after. Little girls used to grow up being fed such things and leaving them with the idea M was suppose to make them happy.
Embarrassed to admit, I thought my H was suppose to make me happy. When he didn't, it made me pretty upset with him. I was very young and had a lot to learn about relationships. I was much older, again embarrassed to admit, when I started hearing how happiness was a decision.
So, back to your W, I take it you don't see it as being a situational type of depression.......like suffering over some type of loss. It's more like she has unmet expectations and desires, right? Is this the first time she has sought out medical help?
Chronic depression is tough to live with, and it's tough to live with the person who has it. I hope she will continue to seek help with this problem.
I do understand her eliminating what she sees as being the logical source of her unhappiness. I did the same thing when I had my first baby and was suffering post partum depression. I thought I would leave my H, find someone new, and live happily ever after. I was still very young and pretty ignorant about this subject.
How long would you say she has complained with unhappiness? Did it begin shortly after you were M? Did she ever tell you what would make her happy? Sometimes when women complain, the man takes it as nagging.......when really, she's trying to tell him what she needs. It may result with him tuning her out, getting in an argument, or her tears, but it boils down to bad communication.
Sandi,
The perspective of a woman really helps.
Correct, she doesn't feel good because she's always scared she won't do something right and feels unfulfilled. She's never seen a Dr., only doing it now because she's chronically sick, sleeps poorly, has headaches and has lost interest in things she used to enjoy.
Her unhappiness really started to come out about a year ago when we argued about our son and therapy. She didn't want to discuss anything, only have me agree to everything on the spot. And despite it being expensive, she saw that as an excuse from me because I was the one paying for it.
I've asked plenty of times what would make her happy. She'd either say I don't know, or say something ugly so I'd stop talking about it. Her biggest complaints were dumb things, like mine of her. Taking out trash, smells, dishwasher, etc.
Inadvertently I've asked how she's doing the past week and she'll say fine. Once she said"great" and it made me sad, but I remembered to not believe much of what she said.
She may not know what it will take to make her happy. Happiness is something that has to come from within herself.
What did she do during the day? Did she work or volunteer?
It sounds as if she may be suffering from low self esteem, as well.
She's a preschool teacher. She enjoys teaching, but she's cried about hating her job too because she's used to preK kids and is now changing lots of diapers w/2yr olds.
She does have low self esteem. Hates her body, will show outward bravado but is extremely sensitive.
I think the only thing that really makes her happy is our son. Even though he's not easy to take care of for one person....
I just got to the part in DR where you're supposed to write down your goals. I had to rewrite mine a few times as Michele explained you have to make them specific and action based! So, here are the 3 I wrote down: 1) For us to choose a new preschool for our son together. 2) For her to ask about me via text/phone 3) Encourage her about something causing her stress(likely her being director of summer camp)
When she called last night to tell our son goodnight, I could tell she was pretty sad. He said I love you, hi Mommy, bye bye, etc but he was focused more on me and talked about Daddy. She started to cry, but she's obviously decided never to let me hear it and when I asked if she were ok she said I'm doing fine and quickly said goodnight.
Also, during those few moments when the conversation isn't directly about our son, I feel like she's trying to instigate something. Like she wants to push my buttons and cause me to blow up. Could this be an attempt to validate her choice, to have me get angry and say something nasty that would illustrate that I really am the reason she's unhappy? I haven't fallen for the bait, and even do a pretty good job of validating.
I just got to the part in DR where you're supposed to write down your goals. I had to rewrite mine a few times as Michele explained you have to make them specific and action based! So, here are the 3 I wrote down: 1) For us to choose a new preschool for our son together. 2) For her to ask about me via text/phone 3) Encourage her about something causing her stress(likely her being director of summer camp)
When she called last night to tell our son goodnight, I could tell she was pretty sad. He said I love you, hi Mommy, bye bye, etc but he was focused more on me and talked about Daddy. She started to cry, but she's obviously decided never to let me hear it and when I asked if she were ok she said I'm doing fine and quickly said goodnight.
Also, during those few moments when the conversation isn't directly about our son, I feel like she's trying to instigate something. Like she wants to push my buttons and cause me to blow up. Could this be an attempt to validate her choice, to have me get angry and say something nasty that would illustrate that I really am the reason she's unhappy? I haven't fallen for the bait, and even do a pretty good job of validating.
The goal section of DR confuses a lot of people.
Your #2 isn't a goal. A goal is something you can control, and you can't control her at all.
#1 and #3 are goals. You might want to break the first one down into smaller goals (make a list of possible preschools, research one preschool a week, identify your top 3 chioices, etc.). For the third one, you might want to set a frequency--once a week? once per conversation?
Rose,
Thanks for your analysis.
#1 We have looked into preschools together, and I'm calling them in order to see when we could take a tour. So, we are basically at the choosing stage right now.
#2 I see your point. This is more of a want than a goal, isn't it? Maybe my goal within the next two weeks is to open the opportunity up more. As in, when time allows (not forcing!), talk about her day and the like hoping she might ask the same about me.
#3 Good idea! I'll go with once a week, since conversations have been pretty brief so far.
Also, during those few moments when the conversation isn't directly about our son, I feel like she's trying to instigate something. Like she wants to push my buttons and cause me to blow up. Could this be an attempt to validate her choice, to have me get angry and say something nasty that would illustrate that I really am the reason she's unhappy? I haven't fallen for the bait, and even do a pretty good job of validating.
Yes, I think she does it to justify her leaving what made her unhappy (in her viewpoint). When she begins to feel a little doubt, she'll try to engage you into an argument to reinstate to her that you're to blame for all that's wrong in her life.
I suggest you practice agreeing with her........whenever you can. Even making comments like, "You may be right", could stop an impending argument. And, with the track record of both of you, trying to get your point across to her is usless right now. I think she needs a lot of validation. Don't kiss her a$$, just listen and validate, if you can only nod your head while she's talking. Looking directly in her eyes while she talks, is important to women. Don't be creepy, trying to follow her around and get in front of her to see her eyes, just look at her, so she'll know you hear her. if she looks away, then wait for her to look back at you. She doesn't want emotional pressure. Don't waste your breath trying to persuad her to your way of thinking about her or the MR. It will only verify her feelings that you are her problem.
If she is approaching her unhappy life by eliminating possible sources, it will take her time to realize the true source.
Regarding her job, is she caring for children in diapers? Is this PreK or more like child care? I could understand her being certified as a PreK teacher, but feeling as if she can't fulfill what she has been trained to do. This could be a realistic source of discontent. It could also feed her low self esteem. Has she tried to get a position with three & four years olds?
Sandi, I'm glad I'm seeing her attempts to create an argument out of nothing correctly. I know I can't fall for the bait. I'm validating her feelings pretty well, but will work on looking her in the eyes. I know that shows a bit more confidence. I was able to do that the last time we spoke.
Yeah, I realize it's going to take a while for her to figure out why she's unhappy. Being away from our son has definitely hurt her, and with the way he's been hanging on me lately she might hurt even more if he talks about me when she's keeping him. From DR, I read one of the general rules was that for every year of marriage it'd take a month of healing. That makes about 4 for us, which would mean it'd be around our son's birthday if everything went well.
Yes, it's an actual preschool she works at and not a daycare. It's actually one of the best in Atlanta. She has lots of certifications, you've nailed it on the head. She's a qualified teacher and is reduced, largely, to cleaning poopy diapers and soothing screaming 2yr olds. I believe she is going to be with older kids next school year, which made her happy. I've encouraged her about her job many times. Not more than 3 weeks ago, she sat on the stairs crying about her job and I came, put my arms around her, and told her how great she was doing and would continue to do. She kissed me and said thank you.
Another thing that will make her happy is when we find our son a preschool. After we've got him signed up, I'm expecting she'll want to talk as she's mentioned we have to "take care of him before we talk about us." That could be in around a month.
Well, kind of a weird night.
I picked up our son from my parents. He was thrilled to see me, and instead of wanting to stay and play, he wanted Daddy to take him home!
My wife didn't text me until about 530PM, asking how his day was. I got a new iphone, so we could do facetime with him. She was excited I did, but didn't explicitly say so. She said she'd call around 730 to say goodnight. I call her around 715. I have looked at my son's ipad and see that some guy is in charge of the iCloud, using his credit card and my wife is part of the "family group." I ask her if there's something I need to know, and if someone is paying for her itunes. No, she says. She's calling Apple. In 2 or 3 minutes the family section of iCloud is gone. We text a little more about how weird it is. Surely our son has screwed around and done something she says.
I take my son upstairs so he can drink his milk, wind down and get to bed. He's exhausted, and falls asleep about 30 minutes earlier than usual. It's 8 and we try facetime, it doesn't work. I call, and my volume is screwed up. We discuss how we're going to handle next week with him and therapy this summer, but she can't hear me and I need a few minutes to think about what she's asking. She goes on for 2-3 minutes without stopping, demanding yes or no answers when I take a second to think about what she's asking and gets wildly impatient. I tell her I understand she wants to know how we'll keep him, but she can't hear me and something's wrong with the volume. She says ok, we agree on a plan and I say I'll google the problem.
I google the problem, and figure out facebook drains the battery and affects the volume. THAT is weird lol! Then I call Apple and ask about the iCloud. The person who opens the family account sends out an email and anyone part of it must accept (ie my wife had to have accepted this invitation). There's no way my son could do this as her email is not open on the ipad. ??????????
We text a little more about the issue, she says Apple has quick service. She says she's tired and we'll talk tomorrow when she gets here. I ask if it's anything bad, in a joking manner. She says we're just going to iron out details and she's going to bed. I tell her I hope she sleeps well and I'll see her tomorrow. She says see you tomorrow.
I don't believe she's seeing anyone. She's been so irritable, ugly and argumentative that I think she'd throw that in my face. She also knows that there would be little chance I'd want to save our marriage if she is cheating on us. (I would likely lay into her, look into a lawyer) She also noted that, instead of having fun with her parents this weekend, it was "weird" and when I asked what was wrong she just ignored it. Something else for her to be stressed about. Her Mom is sick with an alcohol related remedy that has her on pills, otherwise she'd have psychotic episodes and would barely be able to hang on to life. Her Dad retired from the Army 3yrs ago, and spends his days taking care of her Mom and taking her 14 yr old sister to school. She's very protective of her Dad, and sad for the position he's in.
She's coming tomorrow morning, as she wants to take him swimming before nap. He will love it.
I use to hear that once you are M, you can never really live back home again. What it means is that going home will never be like it was when you were a kid living there.
This is true; however, I think she meant that the dynamic between her parents is off again because of her Mom's condition. She said she's not comfortable with our son over there because they won't be able to look after him sufficiently. I know this makes her sad, and probably adds to whatever she's feeling already....
Update!
DB is definitely working. Wife came over today to pick up little guy, and we went to the pool as a family. We had a great time. I have hidden everything I have re DB, and my goals. There is a small thing on the fridge I have for reminders, but I figured it was safe because it's vague.
We talked, and she's REALLY having a hard time with her emotions. She said she felt like a quitter and that she was sorry and cried. I looked in her eyes as much as possible and did not offer physical sympathy, but explained to her that I want her to be happy and that I've chosen to focus on myself and our son and to give her time to find herself. She's started working out again, which is something she loves. She was surprised I had been taking things so well and seemed pleased with that.
In addition, she would talk about things related to a divorce saying she's not interested in money or possessions but to simply make sure we're keeping care of our son together. Then I asked her if that's where she was, and she backtracked saying she'd continue to take things one day at a time. She likes being on her own so she has more time when our son's not around, but she has a VERY hard time taking care of him alone. She asked what I've been doing for me, and I said walking the dog more, doing reading (I'm a big reader, but obviously didn't mention my new subject!), will be going out next Saturday, etc.
We said goodbye, I didn't force any hugs or anything just goodbye. I did love on my son but didn't have any inkling to get emotional. I'm home now, and I'm doing me. It's working. DB is definitely my marriage bible!
I wrote down last week the chances she'd return. I had it at 25%. Now I went back and put it at 35%. Great progress, and I'm pleased. But now isn't the time to celebrate. I know I've got to keep it up or I will lose this progress. It sure feels good to know I'm headed in the right direction though.
RSG, sounds like you did pretty well but I caution you to build up what it means, this is a roller coaster ride, the higher up you go the further down the next drop... Don't build this up to mean anything, because it doesn't mean anything.
Doesn't sound like you did, but don't give more information than you need to when talking about what your doing. Try and redirect the question back to her. Did you tell her where your going next Saturday or who with? If not, she will likely bring it up again, do your best to keep it vague.
Also, you don't accidentally end up on someone else's family group on iPhone... Prepare yourself to find out about another man soon... Generally finding out about an A starts with clues, and we choose to explain them away until it hits us head on.. Did she bring it up at all, or was the subject silenced?
I would look for a vet for their opinion on this, but I think I would bring it up and make it clear that although currently separated, you are still married and you will not accept being in or part of an open M, and seeing other people is not acceptable.
It's so uplifting to see you writing so positively about your sitch and the great strides you're taking. I think I turned a corner yesterday with the help of people on here and I see now that my sitch is completely out of my hands and I need to focus on the one thing I control, me and the kids.
Keep up the great work.
Thank you for keeping my feet to the fire. I was excited initially, but have come back down and focused on MY improvements. I did tell her what I was doing next Saturday, but I'll try to be more vague in the future.
The subject was largely silent, until she Facetimed me from the pool to see if it worked and my son said "hi Richard." He doesn't learn names that well, and the guy who was running the family group was named Richard.
I just asked. She is seeing someone. I told her I don't want him around my son while we're married, and if she wants to continue to see him we will have to get together immediately and begin to work on a divorce. I kept my cool, and was pretty good. I do not want my son around someone else while we're married, and it's completely unacceptable. I gave her a few days to think and report back. I believe she's going to keep seeing him.....
I'm sorry to hear that RSG, it is the toughest thing in the world to hear, just know that you will get through this. Your going to likely start crying again, and question everything that she has done and wonder how she could ever do this to you, where did your loving wife go... These are all normal things to feel, they hurt a lot, but they are normal.
Be careful with ultimatums, you don't want to issue ultimatums when your emotional, because your gonna feel different about it in 5 mins, 4 hours, or the next day. I promise you that what you want will change constantly.
Work on boundaries, not having OM around your S is a good place to start, but you need to create a true boundary with a cost for not observing that boundary. Re-read the boundaries link cadet gave you on page 1.
As for the OM, don't bring him up, in fact try not to even think about him, he doesn't matter, because if not him it would be someone else. You need to focus on you and your S. Go back and read Sandis rules, that's what you need to be doing now, it's more important than ever that you detach and focus on you. The A has to stop before your WW will want anything to do with you.
I'm so sorry that this is happening to you, I pray for you to have the strength to become a better man for yourself. And if I can offer a glimmer of hope, your young and have plenty of life left in front of you. I didn't even meet my W until I was your age, and if you become a better man now, you will have a wonderful future with someone, wether it be your current W or someone else.
Thanks Coconut.
I haven't cried actually. I'm pretty accepting. She's the one crying now. I always knew that an affair was a deal breaker for me. Not just for what she did to me, but for what she has done to our son. She says that he's worth everything, and every hardship. If she actually believes that, then she'll make the obvious choice. If not, then she'll destroy this family and be the quitter she's said she doesn't want to be.
I'm trying to detach, and focus on myself and my son. He's what's important. He's what has kept me going since she walked out. He is everything to me, and I'll do anything for him. I did tell her that I loved her and was willing to start from scratch, because I love my son and I believe something still burns inside of her for me. It's ironic. She told me she left because she wanted our son to have 2 happy parents. Hopefully, she allows that to be true....
Well, wife and I talked. She asked if we could use June to focus on our son and revisit in July. June would be to find him a school, which will take a lot of work with school tours and information. Also, getting him set with therapy as well. I need to schedule a hearing test for him so we can turn that in, and get him evaluated by the city so therapy won't cost an arm and a leg with private therapists.
It's hard to detach, not that I think about this other person too much. But, in addition to doing the above for my son along with enjoying my time with him, I'll also be working on GAL. She isn't as ugly and condescending when we speak, as I believe the guilt is finally getting to her.
RSG, that would be stalling and cake eating... She's asking you to do nothing for a month while she continues the high the A gives her, and all the while you two will still be getting together to handle all the family responsibilities for your Son..
Is that what you want? I'm not telling you what to do, just wanting you to see what she's asking for.
No, it's not what I want. Should I be adamant about the affair having to end? She will text me around lunch to discuss our sons day, I think I'll make mention of the boundary but keep divorce out of it. I'll just say that the month time to work on our son is predicated on that.
um... you cant make her end the affair, you can only provide a consequence if it doesn't, she has to make the decision to end it.
As for discussing sons day, is that a call you need to take? I might suggest taking some time to digest everything and think about what you want. If you do take the call, give a brief update and end the call, don't linger on the phone.
In my case my W was still in the house, so how I handled things was different and I don't know what strategy you can use to provide consequence for the A. For example, I told her I wouldn't share the MBR with a cheater, I stopped waking her up for work, stopped making coffee for her, I started being out of the house a lot.
Hopefully a vet with a little more experience in a sitch like yours stops by and offers some words of wisdom. In the long run, DB'ng, GAL, Validate, still apply, but nothing will matter until the OM is out of the R.
Man I'm sorry to hear about that RSG. It's certainly tough and so many of us here have been through it. The first time I was here three years ago there was an OM. It was tough to swallow. This time around it doesn't seem to be one, but there is no way for me to know 100 percent.
So what Ive done is work on me. Do the work that I know contributed to my breakdown in the marriage.
That's all you can do. You need to be the best father for your son as you can possibly be right now. You have no control on whether she ends the A. Zero. You have to understand that. There is no reason for you to even bring that up.
My W and I were physically separated the first time around. Once I knew there was an OM for sure, I stopped being her "crutch"
That doesn't mean I stopped helping and being a father to my son, but I stopped being a doormat for her to walk on.
I'll never forget the first time I really was done being that person. My wife was crying about how hard things are right now, etc.
I said,"that must be rough. but you have someone else to discuss those things with now"
The look on her face was priceless. And it only worked because I had genuinely detached at that point.
Trust me, a WW will have her cake and eat it as long as you let them. I suggest you detach, GAL and do not bring up A as quickly as possible. I know it's not easy. But it's what must happen
It's amazing really. When I post stuff here, and get advice contrary to what I want to do, I change and follow the advice.
I guess that's why I continue to post!
I have decided against addressing the affair, and demanding the OP be out of the picture. She knows I don't want him around my son. I guess I have to hope she respects that.
I'm detaching little by little again, it's like I'm back to square one really. I've got plans for this Saturday and I'll be keeping my son Th and Fr. I'm going to be the best I can for him, as always. He truly is my inspiration. If I didn't love him so much, I never would've found DB and started on this program.
I'm thinking about calling a coach tonight, so I can establish clear goals and have even more accountability than I get on here.
I think a coach would be a great idea
They can give invaluable advice
It is completely reasonable and understandable for you not to want OM around your S.
Just remember you can request that, but that doesn't mean you can control whether she respects it or not. Which is why you have to show no emotion about it either way.
Just keep working on your goals and what is important to you to detach. That's what you can control
I think a coach would be a great idea
They can give invaluable advice
It is completely reasonable and understandable for you not to want OM around your S.
Just remember you can request that, but that doesn't mean you can control whether she respects it or not. Which is why you have to show no emotion about it either way.
Just keep working on your goals and what is important to you to detach. That's what you can control
Thanks. I think I've calmed down from the emotional "high" of yesterday and am back on track after a few reminders of what I need to be doing. I really appreciate it.
I'm just going to keep working on me and forget about what she's doing. I was doing a good job until this came up. I'll be getting home at 5, taking the dog on a nice walk, getting a couple things from the store and having a quiet night. Tomorrow night my son is coming home. Yay!!!!
Had a afternoon today. Took my dog out for a long walk, watching a Clint Eastwood movie on his birthday and making myself burgers. Signed up for a meetup group, and plan on going out to a trivia night next week to do something I've never really done before.....meet new people.
Wife called after school for our son to say hi, and called again before he went down for bed. I've noticed that since she told me, she's no longer combative, ugly or put out with me when we speak. I'm not putting any stock in this, it's just been something I've noticed.
I've moved to page 4, just trying to get back to the front!!
So, my wife called me 3 times this morning. Twice for me to say good morning to my son (via facetime), which he enjoyed. And once to talk about our plan for speech therapy in the summer. She was nice, made funny faces, jokes, etc. I put forth ideas for therapy and she quickly agreed, though in the email his therapist she referred to me as "his Father."
Not sure what to make of this really.
I'm not changing anything I'm doing because of it. I wonder if she's looking for a reaction. I haven't given anything, except happiness to see my son in the morning and to want to get him necessary therapy this summer so he can continue to grow.
This is so funky. Anyone who can relate, please throw something out!
Looking for help!! I'm kind of confused as to what I should be doing now.
She referred to you as "his father" because that is who you are.
You are his father. No reason to be looking any further in to it
This is why detaching and GAL is so important right now
You need to be there as his father and that is it. You need to be becoming the man that you can be. A man that any woman would turn down is an idiot.
DBing is all about that. It's about becoming the person you can be and that may save your marriage. It may not but you still win anyways
You're right, and he's coming tomorrow. I can't wait. When he's here, it feels like I'm on track and working hard on me and us. He inspires me to work, to go further than I think I can. When he's gone, I just feel like I'm stuck in neutral. I guess I just miss him so much, it opens up my mind to everything.
I've got something going on Saturday and have taken care of some stuff around the house today.
I think one thing I can do to get things out is to write. I've done it a little, and it really helps clear my mind and keeps me from thinking too much, texting when I know I shouldn't, etc.
Wow. Spent a lot of time reading Sandi's posts about the WW. It made me realize that, while I may be doing OK, I can see all the ways I've been wrong. I'm taking the crumbs, agreeing with her way too often, trying to be nice, etc. All the things that make her think I'm weak. Not anymore. She called this morning to ask if I'd come pick him up from school. She didn't give me 10 seconds to think, said I'll just bring him to you and I said ok. I'd get there about 10 minutes prior to 4:30, so no biggie anyway for my boy. She made the comment she is worried about traffic after dropping him off, and I said "yeah, that is pretty rough" without saying anything else.
I've been initiating too much contact, and it likely seems like I'm happy to see/talk to her rather than making it about my son. I'm going to go dark unless it's about him, stand up to her more, and be vague about what I'm doing. She will have to initiate calls to say goodnight to our son, and if she misses that then she misses it.
Sandi's posts were amazing, and really a kick in the teeth. I AM a nice guy, and it's time to stop being a doormat! She has to see what she will be losing. The one time she realized that, she broke down in fear....because she'd be losing her safety net. Good. I'm no safety net!
Feeling confident this morning, THANK YOU Sandi!!
I guess this is journaling?
I stood up to her this morning. 3 times she has asked me to come early and pick up our son from preschool. Why does she ask? Traffic stinks at 4:30 in Atlanta. She has to drop him off at home, and then go another 30 minutes or so to her place. She probably gets in around 6. After I said no the 3rd time, she said "K" (which means she's miffed). Sorry, can't do you any favors. That man is dying and I will not be taken advantage of any more!
She's been using our son against me for a while, despite all the times she's refused to come to the park, stayed out until 4AM getting plastered and hungover all weekend, going to "workout" from 5-8 every weekday while I take care of him alone. Nope. As Sandy said, logic has gone out the window for her. She's selfish, and now trying to make me guilty for a 4th time! My son would maybe gain 10 minutes by leaving around 4:20 instead of 4:30 and she's treating it like I refuse to feed him. I'll have to dog walked by the time they get home, and we'll get ready for the pool. I know the real reason she wants me to get him, it's pretty obvious.
Hello RSG,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
You are off to a great start with DBing. You are so smart to recognize that her cake eating needs to stop.
Thanks cbtdad for the vote of confidence regarding the DB Telephone Coaching.
Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Good for you on standing up for yourself and not being a doormat
That's what you need to do. Don't make your son suffer, but you can't be her "errand boy" either
ATL traffic is awful. I live OTP and drive away from city for work. So I get to keep my sanity.
lol
Good for you on standing up for yourself and not being a doormat
That's what you need to do. Don't make your son suffer, but you can't be her "errand boy" either
ATL traffic is awful. I live OTP and drive away from city for work. So I get to keep my sanity.
lol
Thanks for the encouragement!
Actually, it was better for my boy. He came straight home, I already had the dog walked and we went to the pool in 15 minutes. This kid is like a fish! Open up the gate and he just jumps right in. He loves to be thrown, and when he pops up he screams "Great job Daddy!" I melt.
Wow, you get to go north of town to work? That's the life!! I work downtown and go up 75 OTP. It ain't easy!
Welp. What a day.
Had a pretty good morning. The wife initiated a conversation that began with "when you see my face do you love me anymore? I've noticed a change." We discuss, and it's the first time she's seemed open to trying to make it work and going to counseling. I said I'm thinking about forgiveness, but reading about all it entails re therapy noting it would be really difficult for us. She says we'd talk about it later, and I gave my son a last hug and said I had to go.
FF to this afternoon. I HAD to spend extra time at work, which meant she dropped off my son and had to wait an extra 45 mins for me. Unfortunately, my son was messing around with stuff and my wife found a therapeutic letter I wrote as a "letter to my son." It included how he's my inspiration and how much I love him, but it was also me venting. So, it included a note about how her affair was wrong and she knew it and some of the things she did to get away from home and left us alone. It also included admissions that I had had a hand in her straying and my prayers that she would see the changes in me so my son could have his family.
Oh crap. Any progress I made in the last 2 weeks has likely torpedoed and pushed me back even further....
Ummm.. Did she mention the letter, what did she say?
Yeah, she mentioned it and asked if I was actually giving it to him. I said no it was just therapeutic, and asked what she thought. She said she didn't want to talk about it...
I'm sure that she thought it was strange that you wrote it to your son, at least I do, and may come across as you preparing to attack her to your son... Which would explain the only thing she said about it.
How would you feel about posting it here? Really difficult to know how much damage may have been done without knowing what it says... It is possible that she recognizes that she just saw your inner most thoughts and it could work in your favor, but again hard to tell without knowing what it said.
I will tell you that I wrote a letter to my W (I posted in my thread) owning up to my mistakes in our M, but I was strongly advised not to share it with her, so I didn't. But now that I'm piecing, my W and I were talking after my horrendous text messages the other day, and she made the comment that I had no idea how much I hurt her by my actions, so I pulled out the letter and gave it to her... It was the first time she's really cried thinking about us, and I think it did a lot of good at that point because it showed I knew how much she was hurting.
It's long, so I'll post the relevant stuff.
"When W admitted the affair, I was crushed. I didn't and don't believe it. It's wrong and she knew/knows it but did it to me and you anyway. It could destroy this family. But you inspired me. The hope I have for you and the love I feel and the inspiration you give me helps me stay focused on my goals and you rather than lashing out. There have been no tears but I still have hope. We'll revisit in July, I pray for progress, healing and love."
"I'm not a perfect man. I've been guilty of anger, of belittling, of ignoring. I haven't always been a great Dad. I haven't always been everything I should have. But with time comes improvement, with love comes a desire to do what's right. With your smile comes all the motivation I need. Thank you, without you I'm not the man I am today."
"I want more than anything for you to have a real family. I'm going to keep working for you and I, and hope W wants to make us whole again. For you, I'd wipe the slate clean and start our marriage over. I'd forgive her separation and affair and she'd forgive my poor performance as a husband."
Note: My son may be 3 (nearly 4), but he couldn't understand anything like this yet. He has a speech delay, and is probably at the level of a 2.5 yr old. She meant was I going to save it and give it to him at some later time....
Haha. The wife is a little annoyed at me, and what does she do? The first time in two weeks she refuses to call and tell her son goodnight. Pfft. What a joke. When I told her she had to choose between OP and divorce after I found out about it, she cried and said what a good Mom she was and begging me not to keep her from her baby.
Is there a way to put out the batsignal for Sandi? I'd love for her to take a look at my sitch...
Journaling.
She contacted me last night around 10 asking about bedtime and was disappointed I didn't remind her. She "forgot" to say goodnight to her son. I'm not obligated to remind her, but just said "I thought you were busy."
Comes over this morning around 9 to pick up S, takes him to the pool for a little activity. Asks on the phone on the way do you hate me? She says this based on how I'm talking on the phone. I say no, I'm just thinking about everything and we chat when you get here. FF, we're at the pool and she asks me to tear up the letter from yesterday. She asks what I'm thinking, and before I answer I ask what she's thinking. She says I haven't had time to think I've been working for summer camp too much. (This isn't too far fetched, but there's no way she hasn't thought of everything.) I say I'm thinking about what therapy would be like, and that if we're going to do it we have to know it'll be tough and can't quit at the first bad moment. She picks up on that and asks if my aversion to quitting is why "you're holding on so hard." (Eek? But, now that I think about it, it doesn't mesh with the Do you want a divorce, do you hate me questions.)
She asks me to grab a couple things from the house for him before I leave for my GAL. I grab em, bring em back and say "I tore up the letter. Even though it was just therapeutic for me, I can see where it looks ugly from your point of view." (Pretty good validation I think) I say bye, then she moves in for a hug. I look her in the eyes and we hug. She says bye.
We text a little bit about S during the day and how good of a day he's having. I say I'm going to call at 8 to say goodnight to S.
I've had a good day GAL, although it poured rain while I was outside on a battlefield tour! Had to walk near a mile in it, yuck. Not sure what to think of what she said, but my focus hasn't changed. While on the tour today, kind of scheduled another tour just with a couple of us on a date TBD. Excited about that. Folding my son's clothes now, and going to watch a movie tonight. Feeling good about me!!
Is there a way to put out the batsignal for Sandi? I'd love for her to take a look at my sitch...
RSG,
Yes, to signal Sandi you have to post something like the following:
My wife brought the OM home last night and made all three of us sleep together in the MBR. I felt uncomfortable about that even though I don't think they had sex. I didn't want to tell my wife that I was uncomfortable with the OM in my bed because I was afraid she'd get mad at me.
Doodler you are insane. lol
RSG, sry such a delay, I've had a rough couple of days, but you know that since you posted on my thread.
I gotta be honest, with what you wrote, I think it's good your WW found the letter, I would think it forced her to see herself from her sons eyes..
But I think you need to back off from your WW a little right now, based on your interaction at the pool, it seems to me she's torn, and I think her missing you more would be beneficial. Not saying be cold, but keep conversations as short as possible and don't "hang out", good or not she saw the letter, knows you would forgive her, now wait for her to ask for that forgiveness..
Ps- Sandi2 seems to visit my thread a lot, go and respond to the question I asked and then do a ps asking her to look at your thread and what page #, she might see it.
Just be aware, she does teach at church, so I don't know when or if she checks the board on Sunday's.
I hear you. I'm still wrestling with forgiveness. I think I can do it, but I'm 100%. I think I already noted, but she said she was worried I'd use it as a "kill shot" in arguments for a long time. It's a legit concern and something I'll have to learn to control, and if I do it to immediately stop and apologize. I'd have to hear it from her, but I know some of the reasons I'm responsible. Validation is definitely one, and I'm on the right path there I think.
Counseling would be good for us. We need to have moments together where we show our pain, and the other says "I'm sorry" and consoles. I keep reading about how couples who stick it out after an affair report having a better M than before. That's what I want. I relate it to a nice house that's been unkempt for 6mos or a year. It has a solid foundation, but the kitchen is breaking down, the carpets are soiled, the yard is overgrown, etc. Do you want to leave it and move, or do you rip down the broken house and rebuild something bigger and better? I think we're both strong enough individuals to rebuild, we see something in each other that we want to cultivate again.
For now, I need to work on acting happier around her. I need to contact her less, and allow her to come to me even when it's about S. I need to continue to validate her feelings, continue to look her in the eyes when we speak and continue to control my emotions.
We're supposed to revisit in July. This is the longest month of my life, and it's just started lol.
Yeah, I've seen your stuff Coconut. I feel for you. If we're on an A-Z scale, I'm probably at D and you're around M. Stay strong, keep fighting!!
I think I already noted, but she said she was worried I'd use it as a "kill shot" in arguments for a long time. It's a legit concern and something I'll have to learn to control, and if I do it to immediately stop and apologize.
RSG,
What is the "kill shot" you mentioned?
That if we were to argue in the future I'd reference the affair and hold it over her head....
I agree with Coconut. Back off and let her come to you.
Thanks, started that today. Numerous things have been going on today that I would've conversed about with her. But, besides trying to figure out who S schedule for next week, I haven't said much. My son is having a good day, and very happy, but I'm missing her today. It's taking everything I have to keep from starting a text conversation just so I don't feel lonely.
RSG,
This is why GAL is so important
You've got to being doing stuff and keeping yourself busy or your mind will wonder
Your W is not going to help your loniliness right now and you know that
So don't go down that path!
I went out yesterday, it was great. But, I'm spending the day with my son and it's rainy outside. Haven't really been able to leave. The one chance we got, we went to the park and he had zero interest in running around and asked to go back home.
Just one of those moments I guess. I honestly haven't had too many of them in these 2 weeks, just chalking it up to a weak couple of hours and letting out some pent up emotions. If it feels wrong it's probably right.....now that I'm out of my little funk I realize texting her when I felt down would've been an admittance, from her point of view, that I need her to be happy.
Welp. Called to FaceTime with S. First thing, called me by OP's name. Unbelievable. Then is begging me to rearrange my work schedule because Camp runs 9-4, and she's too stressed to keep him 5 days. She wants me to bring him to Camp. I simply cannot believe this. I just want to scream in her face, this is difficult because of YOU and your selfish BS. It's what she deserves to hear, that's for sure. I didn't say anything ugly, but she got long, angry stares. Disrespect me to my face and ask for favors???????
Today. WW comes home to pick up my son for camp. I feel like she's going to say something, so I just say go ahead. "I'm done. I don't want to try."
Based on our conversation throughout the day, she still seems to be in the fog. After telling me she's done, she's been stressed at work all day and texting me her troubles. I end up telling her she's a good teacher, and she responds with "but a terrible wife." We talk a little more, and the closest thing to a real answer as to why is the ILYBNILWY nonsense.
She's admitted she needs me because she cannot look after our son alone. I've actually gotten better at this than her. She obviously needs me emotionally based on how we've corresponded the last 2 weeks, since she left. I just don't get it. I'm obviously trying to reach an unreasonable person.
Sandi, anyone help me out here? I'm having a rough day!
RSG, I know its tough man. You are doing good. Just keep putting one step in front of the other. Remember when your W is reaching out to you emotionally she is cake eating. Don't be rude, but keep it to one or two word responses.
Back my first time around there was a poster named URworthy
I'm not sure she is around anymore, but she use to have very wise words. Here is something I saved that you may find usesful:
"Trying to understand the "crazy' is never gonna pay off for you. Try to accept the new reality of what is happening around you, and not let your mind wander to the land of "what ifs" and "whys"
There are a lot of scary creatures that live there.....
What she is doing, doesn't make you better, or her worse, it is what it is... It doesn't mean it always has to be this way..."
I hope that helps
Hang in there!
Thanks for the support. I'll definitely keep it down to my son and quick words.
That quote kind of helps, although what she is doing DOES make her worse. She's destroying this family, breaking my heart and affecting her son in a terribly negative way with her selfishness.
I reread Sandy's post about WW's. I thought she was past the weird period in the fog, but she's still languishing in it obviously.
"It doesn't always have to be this way." That part really helps. I know I'm a good man, a great Dad and can be a good husband. Someone will be lucky to have me, and an amazing son, in the future.
She called to say goodnight to S. I asked why she didn't want to Facetime and see him, she said she wasn't looking so good. Her voice was cracking and she didn't spend more than 45 seconds talking to him, and we shared a very flat goodbye. I know she was crying and coming to realize the cost of her actions.
Is it wrong that this made me feel better? I do think her comments today will make it easier for me to detach. I know the woman I love is in there. She tries to come out, but the lunatic in charge of her mind keeps her at bay. Sure, she denies this is so, but I can tell. Something's really going to hit home with her and pull her out of the fog, I just don't know when.
Is it wrong that her crying made you feel better? Nope, you know why, because your feelings are your feelings and they are neither right or wrong, they just are.
BUT, I will say that I really hurt my wife when I outted the A on her fire station chat, and even though she has caused me so much pain, I felt HORRIBLE!!! Even after all the pain I have gone through, I love that woman, and I don't like to see her hurt. With that said, I don't mind seeing her tear up because she's sad about our situation, that feels good to me, maybe it's just because she's hurting, but I think it's more because she's hurting about the loss of what we had.
RSG, I see a lot of hope in your situation, you are strong and are doing the right things. Even if it doesn't work out with your WW, I know you'll be ok, but I think you have a lot of hope in getting to chose to be with her or move on. That's the most we can wish for, to get to be part of the decision on if there is a future R with us and our S, and not just have them make the decision before we even knew the question was asked.
Sure, she denies this is so, but I can tell. Something's really going to hit home with her and pull her out of the fog, I just don't know when.
A fog is usually so temporary......and it's pretty good, I guess, at describing part of the WW. Personally, I think it runs deeper, b/c it begins in the mental attitude. The resentment and disrespect probably stay the longest, and are the hardest for her to delete, IMHO. It raises its ugly head the quickest after the couple tries to piece the M back together.
You can't really give a time slot to how long it will last. My resentment and disrespect for my H went for years before I rebelled. My rebellion actually didn't last very long, compared to many. I don't think Coconut's W has rebelled as long as most of the stories we read. So, you can't put a time clock on them.
Coconut, thank you for the support. It means a lot.
I liked hearing her hurt because it helps make up for all the times I sat and cried while this was going on and I was sad and confused. Yes, I still feel bad for her at times. It was SO hard for me today to not text and ask how camp was going, because I helped her come up with the weekly themes. I consoled her when she freaked out about feeling lost and not being able to do a good job. I pushed her and pushed her to give it her all because I believed in her. But I didn't give in, and I just asked some questions about S and kept it to that.
I sure don't feel strong. I feel like I'm one moment, one picture, one situation away from having another crying fit. Nothing is final now, but I'm losing my desire to reach out because I'm looking at the long term damage of what her selfishness will do. I look at her and see the woman I love, the woman I'm attracted to, the woman I had a baby with. She sounds like the woman I love. But her decisions are insane and she's completely irrational. Maybe I'm too close, and you're right.
I so badly want to have a sit down with her and go over everything, but she'll have to get smacked by SOMETHING so her bullheadedness goes away. But I have a feeling that it won't happen by July and she'll just want to discuss how we split preschool costs, car insurance payments and the like. I miss the woman I love, but I don't like the pod that has taken over her body, mind and soul.
Is there a way to put out the batsignal for Sandi? I'd love for her to take a look at my sitch...
RSG,
Yes, to signal Sandi you have to post something like the following:
My wife brought the OM home last night and made all three of us sleep together in the MBR. I felt uncomfortable about that even though I don't think they had sex. I didn't want to tell my wife that I was uncomfortable with the OM in my bed because I was afraid she'd get mad at me.
Doodler- You had me seriously laughing out loud here at the office. I'm happy you are all keeping your sense of humor!
Looks like it worked since Sandi2 posted on this thread
RSG-
Sounds like she is cake eating in a major way. You are smart to recognize that she needs to fill her emotional and financial needs herself if she wants to continue down this path.
The best advice I can give you is to call a Divorce Busting Coach today. Many of your online friends will agree that Divorce Busting coaches will give you the best advice on how to save your marriage and keep your family together. Please call me to discuss our coaching program 303-444-7004
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
I would not contact her or respond to her except for arrangements for the kids schedule. Anything else seems like pursuing. Even asking how your son is doing at camp. Ask him when you talk with him. Back away, she will follow.
Coconut, thank you for the support. It means a lot.
I sure don't feel strong. I feel like I'm one moment, one picture, one situation away from having another crying fit. Nothing is final now, but I'm losing my desire to reach out because I'm looking at the long term damage of what her selfishness will do. I look at her and see the woman I love, the woman I'm attracted to, the woman I had a baby with. She sounds like the woman I love. But her decisions are insane and she's completely irrational. Maybe I'm too close, and you're right.
I so badly want to have a sit down with her and go over everything, but she'll have to get smacked by SOMETHING so her bullheadedness goes away. But I have a feeling that it won't happen by July and she'll just want to discuss how we split preschool costs, car insurance payments and the like. I miss the woman I love, but I don't like the pod that has taken over her body, mind and soul.
Your welcome, I'm by no means a vet, but I've been through the hurt and know what it feels like, so it makes me happy to hear that I was able to help in anyway.
You say you don't feel strong because your one memory away from crying, but crying doesn't make you weak, if you didn't feel the emotions you'd be a psychopath. Your strong because you don't "need" to talk to her about everything, that's where I'm weak, I feel like I needed to talk to her every time I was feeling anything, two months in and I still struggle with dealing with my emotions myself.
I hope you get the choice of taking her back one day, and if you decide you want to, that's when you will sit down and go over everything. Even though you say you want that, be careful what you wish for, because that process isn't any easier. I would suggest to anyone who reaches that point to really consider what you want to know before you start asking..
There is a lot of good information available on types of questions that can be very helpful in healing, and a lot of cautions about asking for specifics, because knowing specifics can do a lot more harm than good. I kinda look at it like I don't want to know of any specifics about her past R before marriage, and I don't know that I would want to know any specifics about the A either. But I'm getting ahead of myself, just know that most M that have an A occur do survive, so there is a lot of hope.
Please start a new thread.
Thanks for you insight Sandi.
Her mind is definitely in a weird place. She constantly says to me she'd walk through hell for our child, but is actually willing to throw away half of his life without even trying to work on anything.
Obviously my WW is still in the thick of it. I noticed we weren't friends on Instagram a few days ago, and then today we weren't on Facebook. I asked about FB, and she said we are still friend but she's just stopped doing social media so she isn't posting anything anyway. That used to make her SO happy, and it wasn't that long ago!
She said she was "so sorry" the other day, but that didn't hurt her much. And she's been cold and distant since she said that. My Mom compared her place in this as watching a house burning down and being helpless to stop it. I thought that was good, but added my place was watching it burn, knowing it was my house AND knowing it was arson.
I don't understand why she just doesn't file for D now, or why she doesn't say she wants to go forward with a plan. She wants to work together, turn in a plan we agree on and the like, but hasn't said word one about when.