Expect anything from her. I rather doubt it will be a solid commitment. At best, she may try to buy some time. But, one never knows. Usually, the WW will waver back & forth. Your job is stand firm and not let down.
Yes, the NC is for both of you. It gives you some peace of mind, and rebuilds the trust. It is essential for her, in order to withdraw from the A. And.........she will experience withdrawals, once the NC is underway. That is a critical time period.
Maybe it took her rejection of your sexual advances to make up your mind. FWIW, you just shoot yourself in the foot when you try it before she's over OM.
Previous thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2675295#Post2675295
Ok, so quick update...
W got distant 4/8/16...
Confirmed at least EA with kissing 5/5/16...
This morning I told WW that I cannot be in M with 3 people, and that if she is not willing to withdraw from volunteer firefighter gig that I will have to start separation and D process.. Sandi2 response to this is above.
In afternoon, W BFF called me, said that she had 1 hr conversation with W and advised me not to do anything rash, said W is conflicted on how to respond, and said she doesn't do good with ultimatums... BFF said WW doesn't seem like herself, and she wasn't able to talk any sense into her.. BFF upset that WW would do that to me, and can't believe I haven't blown it up to everyone, said W mentioned that I stopped waking her up and stopped making coffee.. BFF told her that she had the affair and she should be doing the work to repair M.. But it did not seem like anything was getting through.
W and son got home a few minutes ago, I was supposed to go to a friends B-Day party with her tonight, but after this morning I wasn't sure how WW felt about me going.. She said I want you to go but I can't deal with what you said this morning, I said that I understand your upset so I'll give you time to yourself.. Then I went and sat on couch watching tv... On the way out, I said to wife that she looked nice and I hope she has a good time, wife said that she was looking forward to spending a fun relaxing evening with me then I went and did this... That's all for now.
Ps- it is insane how spot on Sandi is with her explanations of WW..
Cause Sandi was a WW!
Takes one to know one.
She nailed my situation last time and really help me understand that I wasn't dealing with the same woman I married.
You did good with giving her time after what she said.
You shouldn't have commented on how she looks
You already know that though:)
Your WW is using the guilt card. She is twisting things around to make you feel like you are the one who has really messed up now. It is very common for a WW to say something like, "Well, I was willing to put everything behind us, but now, you have gone and done this"! It is B.S.
Yes, she is experiencing confusion. It is so important that you hold firm now. It is a critical time, and your emotions will tell you to work out some type of compromise with her...........but if you do, you will lose all ground.
You have to be prepared to back up your words. You may have to physically separate from her, before she believes you will really not put up with her disrespect for you and the M. Do not fear it.
I think she will put some pressure on the OM, to see what he says. She may discover that he felt safe to play around as long as she was in a M, however, if she tells him her H is going to divorce her........reality may start hitting this OM and he'll realize she wants more from him. Then see how fast he starts to backpedal.
You have to have a determined and confident presence in front of her. She can make you sound ..........however, but you know the truth. It isn't really the firefighting, it is the affair that has her on the fence. She got herself into this mess, and now she has to put her big girl panties on and clean it up.
I think she will put some pressure on the OM, to see what he says. She may discover that he felt safe to play around as long as she was in a M, however, if she tells him her H is going to divorce her........reality may start hitting this OM and he'll realize she wants more from him. Then see how fast he starts to backpedal.
I'm still reading DR and just staying active on forums while taking small breaks from the book, but I'm wondering if this is a similar situation my WW is in. I know she had an EA with OM at work, and he is in a M as well... She siezed contact with him about 3 weeks ago and then all the sudden I found 3-4 texts she she to him (2-3 nights after she mentioned D to me), and OM only responded once...
I feel like once she broke it off with him, he started thinking about the situation and his M's security. She knows I'm a techie nut and I can grab msg's off her phone and she might have told him at the first break off, about it... I know that doesn't change anything about my WW's emotional confusion, but if she continues to reach OM and he pulls away, that's got to work in my favor at least a little bit, right?
to the OP, hang in there, and I know it's hard NOT to say those things that you 'think' could be helping the situation, especially if they are true, raw emotions and thoughts on her beauty, but stick with the plan.
I was looking through some photos at my parents house just yesterday that my WW was in, and my god, I saw the beauty in her that I haven't seen in a long time. I think, first, it's important not to fall immediately back into showing those reconnections, but secondly, the more distance allowed, the more room those lost feelings can become ongoing and not just temporary pleasure.
Saw WW this morning, as she was getting ready to go to fire acadamy, I told her that if she has decided that she is not willing to withdraw from academy, I would like to Tal to S16 tonight, because I don't want to tell him right before I leave. My plan is to go stay at moms next weekend if she doesn't withdraw... She said that we need to have discussion before talking to S and she stated that she only has 2 1/2 months of academy left (delaying) and why can't we wait til then to work something out (more of a statement than question).
If she says she will withdraw, do I say something like "I understand that it was a very difficult decision for you to do that, it shows me that you are committed to working on us"? Also, at that point do I give space, validate and continue with GAL alone or invite her to join?
If she says NO, my plan is to tell the truth about A (but not details) to my mother, and my MIL. I want to tell my S16 and OM S, but I'm not sure if that is the right thing to do, what do you think?
Hi C,
Maybe I am missing something, but I am wondering what your hurry is in taking action? (ie ultimatum, telling her to make decision now, exposing the A, moving out, etc) Are you thinking that if you move more quickly, she is more likely to end it with OM?
The reason I am asking is because you just talked to her BFF and she said not to do anything rash and she reinforced that W is really on the fence. That appears to be one of the more positive things in your sitch--the minding reading doesn't work--but this is real info coming from W.
Perhaps less is more right now. Maybe instead of focusing on what she is doing and how you can affect that, you should take a step back and detach. You cannot control her or OMs reactions.
You have been clear about your boundaries, that is good. However she has not begun to feel the loss of you. Not suggesting you ignore her or move out, but detach and focus on you. (no pursuing or complementing) I don't see that she has felt that your actions are matching your words.
Perhaps your stated boundaries are more to pressure her to end A and not really to protect yourself.
Just my 2 cents. I really so see hope in your sitch, but I think you are wanting to (understandably) rush this.
-Blu
If she says NO, my plan is to tell the truth about A (but not details) to my mother, and my MIL. I want to tell my S16 and OM S, but I'm not sure if that is the right thing to do, what do you think?
Not sure if this is helpful or not, but I was told, with every decision/choice I have, think to yourself, 'will this hurt or help my eventual target destination?'
I also thought about telling OM's S about the EA I found on W's phone, but came to the conclusion that this could actually work against me, and draw them closer. Each situation is probably different, and telling OM's S might actually work in some cases, but I think it most of the time would draw the two WW/WH closer to one another, as now they are under attack by both of their Spouses.
I'm new here, so take this advice lightly and hope you get a good answer here because I'm wondering the same thing.
Hi C,
Maybe I am missing something, but I am wondering what your hurry is in taking action? (ie ultimatum, telling her to make decision now, exposing the A, moving out, etc) Are you thinking that if you move more quickly, she is more likely to end it with OM?
Perhaps less is more right now. Maybe instead of focusing on what she is doing and how you can affect that, you should take a step back and detach. You cannot control her or OMs reactions.
-Blu
This is something my coach recommended as well. Don't do a whole bunch of stuff all at once because it will confuse her and make her think that you're pulling some kind of trick, or power play, and only make WW revolt against it. It could damage, or at least, prolong, the recovery time you've been putting all the time into...
Coach recommend... "Baby Steps"... never 10 things at once, always stay minimal, and stay cool.
Blu, I don't take what WW told BFF to seriously because WW also said it was only texting, no physical (so she's also lying to BFF). As for why rushing moving out, it's mostly for me, sure I'd like to end A and initiate NC, but I can't keep living like this, I'm having a hard time detaching so moving out would help me with that process. I am finding myself wondering what's going on every time she's at the station, and it's right next to my house, so evrytime I drive by I find myself looking for clues. At this point I need either NC or move out. The only problem is I work with WW, so having no contact with her is not really an option.
I think your right about both WP being pressured would be worse for my cause, specially since they would both be likely to retreat to fire house to get away, so I won't tell OMS..
But what about telling my S16 about the A, I want him to understand that I'm not abandoning him, but I had no choice due to the circumstances.
Coconut, in my case, I don't think it's better for either of us to move out yet. I'm not sure bout yours though.
Will moving out help you to focus on you? Will telling others help you to focus on you? you can really go either way.
Saw WW this morning, as she was getting ready to go to fire acadamy, I told her that if she has decided that she is not willing to withdraw from academy, I would like to Tal to S16 tonight, because I don't want to tell him right before I leave. My plan is to go stay at moms next weekend if she doesn't withdraw... She said that we need to have discussion before talking to S and she stated that she only has 2 1/2 months of academy left (delaying) and why can't we wait til then to work something out (more of a statement than question).
Don't make the focus of your statements too much about the academy/firefighting. The focus is about no contact, whatsoever, with OM. Firefighting is not the real problem, but it becomes a problem b/c of the connection with OM.
I think the conversation she wants to have, will be to agree with what is said to the son. The WW does not want to appear as the bad guy to her children, and will want to conceal the truth about her affair. My opinion is that the H not take the fall for the breakup, but neither does he have to strip his W naked to his teenage son. If she wants to agree on what to tell him, I think you should tell her that you will agree to tell him that his mother and and dad are having marital problems, and that is all he has to know right now. Tell her that if she says anything to implicate you as being the bad guy in any of this......then you will tell your son everything.
Hard ball? You bet! Trust me, she will try to make your son believe you are jealous and don't want her working as a firefighter. So, yes, hold her feet to the fire.
There are differences of opinion about exposure. There was only one time (maybe twice) I advised it several years ago (that I can recall). In your case, if I were to do it, I would only tell OM's W. I would not be hasty in telling your mother.......or even her mother, at the moment. Those who are pro-exposure may not agree. Speaking as a former WW, exposure can put some boulders in the road back home...........especially telling your mother and hers. Of course, if there is a divorce, I suppose it wouldn't matter.
I feel there are very
few exceptions of full out exposure that would cause a WW to fall in the arms of her H. It may bust up an affair.........or push the AP's together. If your W and OM have not gone PA, his W might put a a hot branding iron to his playtime. but then, she might leave him and he'd be more available for your W. It is a big gamble.
I just don't think you have to do it at this point. Yes, she's going to test you. She will try to figure a way around it. But you also need to realize that up until today, you were willing to just put the whole thing behind and start fresh with a new R. Isn't that what she suggested.......and if I recall correctly, she was pulling you in pretty good.
She has to see if you really mean it. She will feel some pressure today. She'll talk about it the the OM.
Hold firm, and do not give ultimatums. Do not give threats. You have told her that you would not live in a M of three people. See what she does this weekend. Don't discuss it anymore. If she approaches you.......listen. Stick to what I suggested, if she wants to talk to son.......and make darn sure you are present.
If she says she will withdraw, do I say something like "I understand that it was a very difficult decision for you to do that, it shows me that you are committed to working on us"? willing to do what is necessary to get out M headed in the right direction.". Also, at that point do I give space, validate and continue with GAL alone or invite her to join?
You see, even of she agrees to stop attending the academy, it does not mean she is committed to the M. When I was wayward, it would drive me crazy and I would be so cold and hateful whenever my H jumped to conclusions........just b/c I made one small move. I have found other H's to have the same type of mindset. You have to understand that she is faced with two major decisions. One is to end all manner of contact with OM, That requires one of them to leave the academy and firehouse. If OM won't, then it is on her. Now get this, Coconut.........she may make the choice very reluctantly!! I made my choice reluctantly, too. I had zero desire or interest in my MR.....and I sure didn't
feel some big commitment. So I suggest you be careful about taking this to mean too much, before she can get there. She won't feel much of anything but the strong craving to contact OM. She has to get through one thing at a time.
Continue to GAL. Yes, invite her along, too. It will be a fragile period. She will need to stay very busy, doing family activities and fun things with you (no romantic, intimate stuff for a while). Do not smother her, but she doesn't need extensive alone time, until she has completely gone the through the withdrawals of the affair. And...........she will go into a depression. She has given up what she loved doing.........and the affair. Her depression could turn to even stronger resentment toward you. That is why it's important that she feels she made a choice.
Thx Sandi, I now see I was pushing too hard, I've made my stance clear, I will wait for her to approach me, in the meantime I will stay cordial, confident & cheerful (the three C's).
Grr, I just don't get her.. So she got home, I was cutting watermelon up and she came in the kitchen and I said hello, and got nothing back... Then she starts watching tv and an hour later says she's gonna make a fruit smoothie, do I want one? I was stunned, not sure what to make of this, but I wanted a smoothie
. I'm thinking she's trying to act like her regular self to get me to back down on my stance, but I'm not... She hasn't mentioned talking yet..
In the book Michelle says state your boundary and back off. Really back off. Michelle recommends giving space, keeping busy, GAL etc but my understanding of the book is after such an ultimatum you give it time.
You are pressuring her. Too much pressure will backfire against you. You need to stop pressuring her. IMO. You have stated your case. She knows exactly where you stand. Restating it is just pressure. If she is really on the fence, you risk pushing her over the other side.
People here will advise you to act now. I agree that you cannot NOTfollow through on your boundary. Whereas I understand it is a strong sign that can pivot a situation in many (not all) cases, I think you are moving too fast. Give her a chance to think it through and get back to you. Use that time for yourself: get advice from the vets, plan your escape, make decisions basically prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Disclosure is s heated topic here but the official line is less is more. Afterwards you will get advice from both camps. Just know that once done it is forever.you cannot untell someone. I have seen that being a future barrier in some reconciliations.
Another generality here is not to move out. Most advise it is the WAS that should leave. There are many good logical reasons for this. Them having to move is a big consequence and the practicalities involved can help make it more real. They are the one that wants out, so LBS should not be forced to accommodate their selfish BS. Others can elaborate on the dynamics of power buy I'll just say that I believe it is good advice in most cases.
I: understand you moving to protect yourself.I get why you want to do this asap. BUT even if you move out you have the same healing to do. You will still wonder about what is going on at the fire station.Some LBS cannot handle the what-if they have left the door open for OP. Unless really detached it can be an obsession that is fed by a troubled imagination. Detachment has absolutely nothing to do with your accommodation. IIt is a state of mind.
Regardless of what you/she decides, you have work to do and a path to follow firstly to heal and secondly to grow. Think about your path. This is where goal setting can help. To start with you probably should focus on personal goals.
I understand that your situation is playing out and you are taken up with the step by step unfolding of that situation. That is important and you have some good vets advising you. Listen to them. But bare in mind, this is going to be a long slog regardless of how it plays out and maybe by starting your own path now towards the YOU that you want to be, could help you change your ideas/focus.
Best wishes
One thing I notice with you nut is that you let every action or word of hers affect you. You over analyze everything she does trying to interpret what this phrase means or that look meant. You cannot give her that power. Like the above poster said. You gave her your stance, it was clear and concise, now sit back try and relax and don't fret about every little thing. Do things for yourself and who cares whether she notices or not. I know you struggle with detachment but you are worrying yourself sick over things you can't control. Relax...Breathe and smile, good luck brother
Sandi replied when I was typing. She is great. I am glad you have her on your team.
As for the silent treatment and then the olive branch in form of s smoothie, I imagine she does not know how to act/what to think. She must have a world of thoughts and emotions swirling in her head. This is difficult for her too. Forget about blame for the moment and understand what she is going through.This is not forgiving nor forgetting, it is putting that aside for the moment.
Be strong. And it is an exercise in futility to try to understand everything she does/thinks. Try to understand but know normal logic no longer applies. Hence refocusing on YOU is more useful.
So, just an update... Wife acting today like she did before BD... We went out to eat at a local deli and ran into the leiutanant from her fire station, she calls me over to say hi (like I really want anything to do with that place), he starts telling me how great she's doing there (ok, now I want to round house kick him in the mouth)... I was cordial, but everywhere I turn now it's firefighter this and that, grrrrr... Just venting, no big news..
One thing I notice with you nut is that you let every action or word of hers affect you. You over analyze everything she does trying to interpret what this phrase means or that look meant. You cannot give her that power. Like the above poster said. You gave her your stance, it was clear and concise, now sit back try and relax and don't fret about every little thing. Do things for yourself and who cares whether she notices or not. I know you struggle with detachment but you are worrying yourself sick over things you can't control. Relax...Breathe and smile, good luck brother
WSB, you hit the nail on the head, it's always been my way to analyze, analyze, analyze... Works well for my career but [censored] for relationships... I will say that I've felt very detached today, almost to the point of being discusted with her, but I'll take that over emotional wreck any day.
willing to do what is necessary to get our M headed in the right direction
you probably figured out my typo earlier. Should have "our" and not out.
Thx Sandi, I now see I was pushing too hard, I've made my stance clear, I will wait for her to approach me, in the meantime I will stay cordial, confident & cheerful (the three C's).
Now wait, don't go to the extreme other direction. I wasn't saying you were pushing her too hard. I was wanting you to be careful how you worded things........and not to see this one move (if she makes it) as some big committement to the M. Don't put words into her mouth. Don't take it to be more than what she is able to give at that time.
Gosh sakes, Coconut, it is hard to keep you in the center of the road. You want surve to the extreme right and then to the extreme left.
[quote=WSB]
WSB, you hit the nail on the head, it's always been my way to analyze, analyze, analyze... Works well for my career but [censored] for relationships... I will say that I've felt very detached today, almost to the point of being discusted with her, but I'll take that over emotional wreck any day.
I disagree, you and I have almost the same personalities. I am noticing that most of the LBHs have. We're analytical, we've got low self-esteem, we've got a weird sense of humor. Now if we're mostly the same, that means our WWs are too. You cannot stop being yourself for someone else, made that mistake already. Tone down yes, but that analytical ability got you where you are in life. Life is more important than a M, that can end in an afternoon.
Sandi, if your around I'd like to ask you a question..
What where you like emotionally before your A, and how did that change once you were in the fog?
The reason I ask is prior to the A, my wife was sensitive, she would sometimes tear up due to happiness or sadness, but since the A, she is like a robot... She says that she was balling when talking to the therapist, but she's never even once seemed sad when we've talked about us, not even when it's gotten to talks about it being over... The only emotion now seems to be disdain and anger, other than the couple of pity hugs that she gave me at the beginning of all this when I would break down...
And also, if she doesn't bring up the NC today, I'm thinking that I'll let her know this evening that I'm going to talk to mom to start setting up a plan to move out... But I'm not sure if I should let it simmer for another week and wait until next weekend to start making plans. I told her that I'm not willing to be in 3 person M Friday morning, it's now Sunday.
So yesterday, a fire call came in and WW asked if I mind if she reports, I said that's your decision and she went. She text me a few minutes later and said our truck isn't going out, he is not here, be home in a few. Today she got a call, didn't ask just went, and text that not enough people showed, truck not going out, be home soon...
sometimes she lets me know he's not here, and sometimes she doesn't say it, so I assume that means that he is there... Even if she stopped contact with him, how does she think it's not a 3 person marriage when she gives me updates on him? Grrrr... Not looking for response, just venting... Also not trying to read into her thoughts, just venting... I know, I know...
We know we know. Get her out of your head. Look up at your ceiling, focus on it. Say "i am present at this moment right here".
Helps me...
Sandi, if your around I'd like to ask you a question..
What where you like emotionally before your A, and how did that change once you were in the fog?
The reason I ask is prior to the A, my wife was sensitive, she would sometimes tear up due to happiness or sadness, but since the A, she is like a robot... She says that she was balling when talking to the therapist, but she's never even once seemed sad when we've talked about us, not even when it's gotten to talks about it being over... The only emotion now seems to be disdain and anger, other than the couple of pity hugs that she gave me at the beginning of all this when I would break down...
That is hard for me to answer in a few short sentences. I think I was more sensitive and got my feelings hurt, more than I would like to admit. I've been told that I am very friendly and warm, and can be a lot of fun. I meet people easily, and enjoy being around others. People usually could tell by my emotions if I was happy, sad, or upset. I loved having people over to my house. I was usually the first one to speak up in a group discussion. I probably had some control issues, too, (now that I reflect back) but I was totally blind about it at the time. I think I was sensitive to other people's feelings, but it may not have shown......IDK. My family (including my H) have always seen me being much stronger than I think I really am.
I was, clearly, the extrovert and my H the introvert. I don't think I was the bossy or nagging type.......but I would push down the resentment when my H would not step up and do what I thought the man should do. I felt I had to step up and take charge in some things (especially the kids) b/c he wouldn't. He never protected/defended me from his mother's vicious tongue, and some other things I won't get into right now.
Same with the MR. I wanted the MR I saw in my parents. I was always entergetic and doing whatever I read in how to improve our MR. But I felt that I was the one always leading or in charge of the relationship. I would talk to him about what I needed, and I would cry, and get terribly frustrated b/c I could see no effort on his part. Over time, (with a lot of stress and unfulfilled dreams and unmet expectations) I eventually gave up and become somewhat withdrawn. My emotional needs had not been met in the MR, and neither were his. The resentment and disrespect was taking over my whole being. I felt disgust and maybe even bitter toward my H. I saw no hope in him as my H. My insides felt dead. The thought of him touching me turned me cold as ice.
Once I started inappropriate Internet contacts, and especially once I engaged in an EA with OM, it was like living a double life. I lived for my time with OM and everything else took second place.....or lower. I just went through the motions of every day life when at home, with family, etc.
When my H confronted me the first time, I would not look at him and sat there emotionless. I was so cold. However, I finally broke down and cried, and told him I would end contacts, etc. (But I just got more sneaky). The second confrontation, my heart was beating sooooo fast, b/c I had been caught.......but I never broke down......I just walked out.
I can identify with the disdain, b/c I had lost so much respect for my H. I could hardly stay in the same room over five minutes. I would feel as if I were suffocating.
I was later told that I was not acting like myself when I was in the fog. Well, I didn't
feel like myself, either. I had replaced an inappropriate relationship and a fantasy for my MR and real life.
Don't know if this answers your question.
Don't mean to Hijack, Sandi I love reading your view from the side of a WW. Seeing what My W is Doing and reading your words it's amazing how well they fit together. Gives me great insite and at least gives me perspective. As far as what to do about it, well thats a different story.
Just wanted to say I appreciate your words, and thanks for taking the time to help all us LBS.
Thanks Sandi, I'm sure that's not a easy thing to dredge up, but it does help us LBS...
So, just so y'all know, I'm sitting at the beach, cold beer in my hand and my toes in the sand, with Jimmy Buffet in my headphones.. So family was all home, WW and S were watching TV, I was out on the patio reading and drinking coffee, when I realized I didn't want to waste such a beautiful day.. My first thought was to jump in the pool, but then I decided I needed to go the beach...
I went inside and excitedly said do you two want to go to the beach... Got anything but excitement back.. WW said she would like to go, but can't get herself off the couch, I just said I understand, I've been there before (that is the main thing she blames me for ruining R) but I just don't want to waste such a beautiful day.. I asked S16 and he too didn't want to go...
Oh well, I'm GAL and today that means im at the beach.. So I sit here, with my shirt off getting some sun... I will say it's been years since I've taken my shirt off in public, but I need to be comfortable in my own skin, so here I am
. Plus, I really need to get rid of my farmers tan...
Having a great day,
And also, if she doesn't bring up the NC today, I'm thinking that I'll let her know this evening that I'm going to talk to mom to start setting up a plan to move out... But I'm not sure if I should let it simmer for another week and wait until next weekend to start making plans. I told her that I'm not willing to be in 3 person M Friday morning, it's now Sunday.
Ok, still not sure if I should mention something today or let it simmer another week. MIL is coming over for dinner tonight, im thinking afterwards telling WW that I'm gonna call my mom and find out about staying with her, and I'm also looking into renting a room somewhere, roommates could be fun...
On a side note, she changed her iTunes password, which I'm actually happy about because it will keep me from using "find my iPhone", she didn't mention changing password, she just did it... I'm thinking she may have tried to locate me and saw that I changed mine, so she did it in retaliation, who knows, who cares... I changed mine the day I left work early and wanted to be alone..
Thank you, Nate. That's why I am here, to help anyone I can. It is encouraging to read your words.
Coconut,
Calm down. Shut your mouth. DO.NOT.MOVE.OUT. Or you'll get hit pretty hard with my neon pink with light blue dots 2x4 wood that's studded with 2-inch long nails.
For real, just erase all notions of moving out for goodness sake!
I was later told that I was not acting like myself when I was in the fog. Well, I didn't feel like myself, either. I had replaced an inappropriate relationship and a fantasy for my MR and real life.
Sandi,
I may be asking too personal of a question, you don't have to respond if I am. Who was the person that told you that you were not acting like yourself? How did you eventually turn yourself around and convince yourself to work on the MR?
Boy oh boy.....when I have some quiet time, I'll swing by and post a long one. It's time for one of my come to Jesus talks with you. You're all over the place and it isn't helping your case at all.
Sandi and I will gladly play tag team here until this sinks in a bit more deeper for you.
Wonka, Sandi and I discussed setting the boundary of NC.. I can't have her move out because my son is not my biological son, and I wouldn't kick him out... Thoughts when you get time...
Jim, it was my mostly my mother. I will post on your thread.
Ok, so last night we ended up going out with MIL instead of cooking.. WW made it a point to sit next to me, even changed seats to do so, then kept rubbing my leg during dinner.. Also made it a point to get a couple of pictures with me, not just mom and son... Nothing once we got home..
This morning we had a talk, she said she was trying last night, but it's going to take a long time to get there... I clarified that it wasn't the fire academy that I can't live with, but it is any contact with OM.. I asked if OM could transfer to another station, we agreed that she would contact via text together to find out... She swears up and down that there has been no communication since bomb drop, that she didn't/doesn't have any feelings for him, that it just filled a need for her.
She has been home all the time when not in class or responding to a call, she doesn't keep her phone glued to her, and yesterday seemed a little depressed (not wanting to get off couch, looked sad)... Not trying to read into it, just noting.
I have done some snooping and haven't been able to find anything other than liking two photos of him and other fire fighters at a charity golf tournament on Facebook. I even checked for new apps downloaded, but nothing since b-drop.
So today was my first day back to work after bomb drop... I work with my WW, and wasn't sure how it was going to go.. I had a hard time focusing at work, but in a way it was nice to get back into the swing of things.... Except that I found myself in contact throughout the day (our work overlaps a lot), which wasn't too bad since it was mostly work related convo... Until the end of the day, and I started thinking about the fact that my wife has been there with me, first as a friend and then my wife for pretty much my entire career... Things are really gonna be rough if we don't work things out...
Don't fall for the openness Coco. There are things that you may not see underneath. The problem I had was that i never understood the thoughts behind her actions. Mine was trying to be nice, to hook me in whilst enjoying her chase. Ultimately, I don't know what I don't know. if that makes sense.
So a day later, WW still hasn't come to me to ask OM if he will change fire stations...
Last night I was in bed when W came home, I asked her to come lay with her head on my shoulder so we could just chat, it's been a LONG time since we just chatted, something we did when we first started dating... We talked about experiences when we where younger, things we have done in our lives before M, no pressure, no R or M talk.. My W teared up a few times, it was very nice to just talk as friends, probably not the best idea, but I needed a night were I could let go of all the stress and just talk to the woman I've known for so long.. Wrong or not, it felt good..
Wonka, I'm gonna need that come to Jesus talk soon, WW hasn't asked OM to change stations, she's not given any indication that she is going to withdraw from academy, she hasn't even deleted him as a Facebook friend (all the firefighters are friends on FB), so I don't really see anyway for me to continue living there without accepting an open M, which I'm not willing to do... Although I do believe that she has ceased contact for now, I also believe it could just be a pause until I start trying to trust her again...
Sandi, any thoughts?
Coconut,
She is doing some serious cake eating.
She is getting the attention from you without having to let go of her fantasy.
She has probably taken a step back, but the OM fantasy is still right there plain as day.
As long as she thinks you will be there she will most certainly test the waters with both you and OM
You have to set that boundary and mean it.
Meaning you need to tell her you will not be in a 3 person marriage.
That she either quits the academy or OM does. But no contact means no contact.
If she isn't willing to do that then you move out or she moves out.
But you must follow through or she will walk all over you
I've been there!!
I'm there in a way now. I haven't set boundary yet because I'm not ready to follow through right now.
We have a six year old and he graduates next week from K
After that if I don't see more improvement I'm moving out
CBT, I hear what you are saying, and I am listening... It's hard because she is so much more like her old self, it really feels like she is working her way back, but she still hasn't shown remorse, still very tight lipped and only answers questions, so I know better, this why I'm prepared to move forward without her, I just really want to hear what Wonka wanted to say...
Sandi, OMG, I went back and read your Sitch, at least the first 10 days, and it was eye opening to read your perspective.. I just wonder, your involvement was so much deeper than my WW (I'm starting to believe it was only 3 weeks long, although there was kissing) is it possible for her to come back without total NC? Other than short breaks during classes, and short responses to fire station for calls, she hasn't been away from the house, and there definitely hasn't been any contact by electronic communication (I've verified and reverified).
I'm not wavering on my stance of not being in a 3 way R, just wondering if it's possible for her not to be in one, being that there is only limited contact...
Also, would it be a bad idea to buy her the book "Every Woman's Battle" and just put it on her nightstand?
Wow, what the hell am I doing, I am all over the road... WW had at least some physical contact and I'm downplaying it as not that serious... Funny thing is I'm not emotional anymore, but I'm still irrational as ever.. I feel strong and able to walk away, but it seems like I'm trying to talk myself out of it based on hopes and wishes...
It's amazing what the mind and love is able to do to me...
Yes, you absolutely are downplaying what your W has done. You have made excuses for her and you are desperately trying to find a loophole b/c you don't really seeing her giving up the firefighting.
As much as I really want to tell you that this can be an exception and maybe your W could see the OM and still overcome her addiction.........I just can't, and be truthful. She is telling you she has no feelings for OM. Those type of feelings are not turned on and off like a light switch. It would be like a heroin addict putting down the needle and announcing he no longer needed a fix. Oh yeah?
Sure, you can understand how it works with a drug addiction, can't you? Your problem is believing your W's affair could be addictive. It must be terribly difficult for a man to even think about his W having to go through "withdrawals" b/c she's not had recent sight or sound (even picture on FB) of OM.
I know it's tough on you. Know how I know it? B/c you chunked everything aside to have a chance to cuddle with your W and talk about old times. You told us you didn't care if it was the right or wrong thing to do b/c YOU NEEDED IT. Yes, and you fed that need. You gave into it. Right then, you didn't care what advice you may get....right? So can you see how it would be for your W wanting OM? They want to feed their needs, too. Kind of hard to hear it said that way, isn't it? I am trying to give you some idea of what an affair addiction can be like. You can't give it leeway. You can't temp it.
((Coconut)), she may believe she can beat it, and still have contact with OM. She may try to convince you it's over. Frankly, I think she'll tell you nearly anything, to continue her classes and firefighting. She has put herself in this mess. She will probably face a double whammy, unless OM leaves.
And btw, she is not putting effort into anything. That is more you wanting to believe that she is.
OH Lordy, that was rough.... Sandi, I put my full faith in your words, and it seemed to work out for now...
So while at work I asked WW if she was planning on going to go to couples counseling on Friday, or if I should cancel it. She asked why I wanted to cancel, and I replied nevermind, I don't, I want to talk to the counselor about moving out in 1 1/2 weeks, so I was just wondering if she would be going. She said with surprise, you're moving out in 1 1/2 weeks?? Why?? I just said really?? She then said i want to talk to you about some feelings I have, but let's wait till home, I replied ok.
So at home she says that she's confused about me moving out, and that she thought we agreed that we would ask OM if he could go to another station. I said I agreed to stay if there was NC, but he's still a friend on Facebook, he still works at your station, he's still in the station group-me group, you may not be talking to him, but he's still very much in your life, thus in our M.
She then went into how she sometimes feels like I'm all over the road, that sometimes I act like everything is normal and sometimes I seem angry, I said no since in living stressed, so I choose to be happy, and that other times I am just letting her know what I can accept in our M.
She then says I haven't given her the things she has asked for, I got sucked in and we disagreed about what she's asked for / done vs. what I've asked for / done. At one point she said she's been honest with me, ha... Anyway, we argued (I know I handled it wrong) and then she started getting loud and I said we should continue talking when we calm down.
Eventually we finished, some things that came up:
- she said I'm not the kind of guy she is usually attracted to, but she fell for me because of who I am, but when I disengaged (2 years ago) she lost her attraction for me, I said that I understand woman need an emotional connection to be attracted. (Keep in mind she was ecstatic 3 months ago when we last made love, was very passionate)
- she said that she's told me over and over what she wants, go out and have fun together, let things build naturally, and I haven't done any of that. I reminded her that I tried to plan things but she kept cancelling because of the academy, and I've done everything she's planned (which was two family dinners).
- she still showed no remorse, she definitely distorted facts, and still blames me for the A.
Anyways, you get the idea, she basically blamed me for everything, eventually I managed to stop trying to defend myself and just validated, but when she was done, I said, well you know where I stand, it's no contact or I'm moving forward with separation and D process. I said I'm gonna contact mom tonight and see if there's an option for me to stay there for awhile, and if not I'll find a room to rent, and walked away.
At this point I thought I was out of the house (sry Wonka), I started putting together a net worth spreadsheet and breakdown of monthly home expenses vs. her income to show that she can't afford to keep house (she's convinced she can). About ten minutes later she came over and said do you want me to draft the message, or are you leaving.. I told her I want no contact, so yes, draft the letter. Then she had to go to a fire meeting, so we will send the message in a couple of hours..
Coconut,
Sorry for the delay in responding. Things have been stir crazy the last few days and I am barely catching my breath.
I have caught up a bit here and Sandi's recent post is FREAKING spot on. Your W is doing what we call "truth trickling" which means that WAS only parses out the PG-5 rated version to the LBS. "Oh, it was just only kissing" when in actually they had hot, torrid sex hither yonder! And now your W just left for the firehouse meeting. This tells me that she's racing to the OM to get their stories straight and plot on some of the ways to push their A further into the underground.
There was a mixture of some good DBing and some really bad DBing. The bad part? You just let W go to the firehouse without really putting your foot down. If I were you, I would have simply said, "It takes only 2 minutes for you to decide to end ALL contact with OM right now. I have zero interest or desire to share you with another man. He is a predator and I am here to protect our marriage. Make no mistake. I am not willing to live in an open marriage nor plan to do so. We have some decisions to make here."
Then I would have sat back and watched W's reaction. Now that she chose to go to the firehouse, then I would have said, "Well, I have my answer right there..it says it all for me. You are not welcome to stay in the master bedroom at all."
No turning tails and running off to stay at mommy's house.
Know what? Starsky, while in the early stages, he locked the front door at 10 or 11 pm every night because his wayward wife (the fetching Mrs. Puppy/Starsky) would come home at all odd hours. That is A REAL MAN!!! I have a huge crush on Puppy.
No more lapping up some measly crumbs from W as long as SHE IS IN CONTACT WITH THE OM. You are worth so so much more than that, my friend. It all comes to self-respect. It's that simple.
Oh and a word to the wise about drafting a no-contact letter. It MUST be reviewed and approved by you prior to sending out to the OM and it MUST be cc'd to you. No quibbling on this one.
There are some really good ones on the Internet. My favorite ones are focused on the "incredibly hurtful and selfish act that broke up my marriage and family. My focus is on mending the damage that my thoughtless actions had on my husband and family. For this to be effective, there has to be no further contact EVER with you at all. Please do not contact me by email, texts, calls, Facebook messages, or any other form of communication......blah blah."
Hi Coconut, I'm sorry for what you are going through. On the plus side, you have two of our most respected vets posting on your thread. Do make the most of that and heed their advice - these two lovely ladies know what they're talking about.
I hope things start to improve for you soon xx
Well, his response shows me he's still perusing, he greeted her, validated her feelings, said he'd do whatever he could for her...
WW's text:
Hi,
I know that we agreed not to communicate with one another unless required during a call but I need to discuss something with you. Donnie is not comfortable with us working at the same station or having any contact with each other whatsoever. I do not want to have to quit the Academy & I don't think that I'm close enough to another station to request a transfer.
Do you live close enough to another station that you can request a transfer & if so would you be willing to speaking with Captain about transferring to another station? I don't want a mistake that we made to cost me the department so I am asking for your help to make this right.
OM response:
Hey what's up? Yes I agree. It's not worth you quitting the academy. I know you love it too much. As far as me transferring , yes I am going to be moving very soon so I will be at another station. I will do all I can to make it right and so you have no issues graduating the academy.
I want to respond - I don't need you to be concerned about me, I need to know when you'll be leaving the station.
I want to respond - I don't need you to be concerned about me, I need to know when you'll be leaving the station.
I would think you would find more disturbing that your wife said that she did not want a mistake that they made.....costing her the department............instead of saying
costing her the marriage! Seriously, you can clearly see where her priorities lay.
Do not let her replace a no contact letter with this text. They are two separate things altogether.
In the NC letter, she cannot put it off on you having a problem about them contacting each other, the way she did in this text. She must state that their affair was a terrible mistake and she will not have any contact whatsoever with him, tell him to not try to contact her. She needs to tells him that she loves her husband and will forever regret the hurt she has done to her husband, and she is going to do whatever she has to do to be the wife her H deserves.
After you see the letter, you either mail it or observe her send it by email. Then, you set up a transparency plan, where she is accountable for her time and activity. She doesn't say when and how it will be done, you are the one who says. You already know how to see her messages, etc. It seems that most people are able to check the phone and know whether or not the WW and OM still contact each other. So, the "how" it's done and "when" you check it is entirely up to you....and not her.
If I could read your mind, I bet I would see where you are a little scared of pushing it that far. You don't have to do it right now. Just don't wait long. Who knows what OM means by saying he was planning on moving "soon". Does that mean in three months, this year, or when? I find it a little strange she knew nothing about his plans to move. He didn't ask her any questions about them, or you, .........or anything?
Do not put anything past what they are capable of doing. You are a smart man, but love does cause us to be blind to a lot. It will be not be easy if you think she's hurting.
I am sure you would just like to put this all behind you and get on with living your lives together. I hope you will stand firm, b/c I think she just might make it. Not to say she doesn't have a long ways to go, but at least she did check about him moving to another location. Take that as positive step forward.
Oh, another word of caution. Don't let any excitement you might feel show in front of her, right away. May sound crazy to you, but a lot of WW's will see it and then do something to kick the H where it hurts. Just present a calm man to her. Be polite, pleasant, and validate her. Tomorrow begins a new day.
No mention of the family and husband huh??! Wow.. Weird. If I had hurt my W and family with interactions with some lady, I would destroy her in my NC message. There would be no polite, it would be brutal... And I wouldn't ask anything, it would be all direction. I would tell her how disgusted I was with her and myself, and that would be it. Guess I'm just a serious person, that would feel that sort of message would be less difficult to understand.
Ralph, this isn't a NC letter, this was my wife trying to figure out how to go NC without quitting the fire dept... No contact letter will come once they no longer volunteer at the same station...
On a side note, there has been a remarkable change in her general attitude over the last few days, she is really acting like her normal self.. She's home alot now, and is posting pics of me on FB again, and other little things that she had stopped doing... I'm trying not to read too much into it, but it really seems like she is coming around a little... We will see what tomorrow brings, but first I need NC.
Presses "like" button. Good luck. I keep hoping that I'll get to this point.
Coco.. Oh I see.. I will say this though, and it's going to be a 2x4... When my WW had at least an EA a few years ago and I caught her, I took the lead mostly with what needed to be done ect for her to end it. This is the same thing I am seeing in your situation as an outsider. I will tell you that with my WW not taking the lead and having ownership of the process, it should have told me that she really didn't want to do it, it wasn't hard for her, and here I am again a few yards later. I felt as though I coherced my W to give it up, instead of her really wanting to and me only being in the helping role. Please take this as my sitch... But aren't a lot of these the same?
I want to respond - I don't need you to be concerned about me, I need to know when you'll be leaving the station.
1. I would think you would find more disturbing that your wife said that she did not want a mistake that they made.....costing her the department............instead of saying
costing her the marriage! Seriously, you can clearly see where her priorities lay.
2. Do not let her replace a no contact letter with this text. They are two separate things altogether.
3. If I could read your mind, I bet I would see where you are a little scared of pushing it that far. You don't have to do it right now. Just don't wait long. Who knows what OM means by saying he was planning on moving "soon". Does that mean in three months, this year, or when? I find it a little strange she knew nothing about his plans to move. He didn't ask her any questions about them, or you, .........or anything?
4. Do not put anything past what they are capable of doing. You are a smart man, but love does cause us to be blind to a lot. It will be not be easy if you think she's hurting.
5. I am sure you would just like to put this all behind you and get on with living your lives together. I hope you will stand firm, b/c I think she just might make it. Not to say she doesn't have a long ways to go, but at least she did check about him moving to another location. Take that as positive step forward.
6. Oh, another word of caution. Don't let any excitement you might feel show in front of her, right away. May sound crazy to you, but a lot of WW's will see it and then do something to kick the H where it hurts. Just present a calm man to her. Be polite, pleasant, and validate her. Tomorrow begins a new day.
It's really hard to figure out how to do multiple quotes on iPad, so I just numbered above...
1. Yes, that was a kick in the nuts Sandi, that she said academy instead of marriage, but at least it seems like she is considering leaving acadamy as an option, but I'm reading a lot into it,
2. I wasn't, she will need a NC letter after he leaves station, or she leaves acadamy.
3. I told her that I will need to text him back and ask specifically when, anything over a month is too long for me.
4. Not sure what you mean here exactly... She seems detached and like she despises him for what happened, it could be an act, but if so, she's fooling me.
5. I am standing firm on NC, I'm not ok with open marriage, but I'm certain that the most they've been doing now is talking in the station, they haven't seen each other outside of the station.
6. Ok, but I did tell her that I recognize what she has been trying to do to cut contact... But I won't say or show anymore.
Thanks again Sandi...
Coco.. Oh I see.. I will say this though, and it's going to be a 2x4... When my WW had at least an EA a few years ago and I caught her, I took the lead mostly with what needed to be done ect for her to end it. This is the same thing I am seeing in your situation as an outsider. I will tell you that with my WW not taking the lead and having ownership of the process, it should have told me that she really didn't want to do it, it wasn't hard for her, and here I am again a few yards later. I felt as though I coherced my W to give it up, instead of her really wanting to and me only being in the helping role. Please take this as my sitch... But aren't a lot of these the same?
Ralph, you hit the nail on the head... Right now I am taking the lead, but I will stop leading after NC, that's my priority... After I will continue GAL, keeping up with my 180s, and wait for her, I am just pushing for the NC...
Is it worth it... Grrr, I have so much anger and hate today, sitting here wondering is it really worth it... She has an affair, acts like it's not a big deal, does nothing to help repair my trust... Do I even want to... I swear, all I want to do right now is go online and fill out non-contested divorce paperwork and split everything in half....
It's so crazy how fast I go from sadness/dis pare to indifference to now hatred... I don't even want to see her or talk to her...
I also find myself often thinking of post D, chatting with Woman a lot more (nothing inappropriate) but finding that I wouldn't mind leaving her and start something new... Is it really worth being with someone who's done this? Always having that in the back of my mind, I just don't know... I've been cheated on before back when dating, but I left them and haven't thought about it in many years until this, but it brings me no pain since I'm not with them, does it bring pain when your still with them? I would imagine many years from now it still will... Grrr
Personally, I don't think I ever want this person back. To fear that it will happen again. A fresh start is something that is priceless.
I also find myself chatting to other woman and thinking, I could do this again some day and walk away with that "moment" smile on my face. That alone just made me smile. I guess as much as they're running from this, so are we. But right now we gotta stand fast, on what we believe and in and see this through.
So hold up on the divorce idea until you can do it with no emotions, when you know in your heart you have tried it all, when you know that reconciliation will not happen. I pray that I get there sooner rather than later.
Coconut,
I understand the roller coaster of emotions! Some days you love her, miss what you had, and would do anything to make it work. In the flip of a switch, you can feel anger, rage, grief, and raw emotions. Then on again, off again, and around and around.... It is incredibly painful and unsettling. This has been a tremendous crisis and so these whirlwind of emotions are compeletely normal! You are only human.
That being said, you do not need to act on any of them. Better yet, act on none of them! Allow yourself the freedom to feel them. Then allow yourself a break from them--exercise, deep breathe, do something fun and take your mind off of it for a couple hour--whatever you need to heal, cope, and get through this. It's going to take time--just like it would for anyone to heal from a major trauma.
But your actions and words are your choices. They do not and should not be dictated by these emotions. Allow yourself time, patience, and rational thinking and planning. These are big decisions and why make things any harder on yourself!?! You will figure this out, and the more you can come to terms with all of the feelings and perspectives, the better choices you can make for yourself for the long run.
You will get through this in time!
Blu
Coconut, In the last couple wks I have felt the same range of emotions. It is the worst. There are times when I want to scream and cry at H and let it all out. Maybe these emotions can be used for good and help to detach.
Its a sad position to be in. Keep in mind the advice you were given about not rushing your thoughts. You had mentioned patience to me and how you struggle as well. Maybe put your energy into continuing to keep busy. You have a better handle on it then me. Be there for yourself as you have for others here.
So, still in a angry mood today, I gotta make sure to keep it in check since today is our first couples counseling session.. I was gonna cancel, but I'm hoping she may open up a little, so I decided to keep it.. Hopefully the anger can help me from tearing up, im tired of crying for someone who just doesn't seem to care.
Last night she had class and didn't text when it was over, wouldn't of mattered as I had fallen asleep, but still had to be on purpose... I am getting the feeling she's giving up on moving us in the right direction, still hasn't progressed towards NC...
Try not to interpret why she is doing what she is doing. You really don't know for sure. Even though it doesn't seem like it, she is struggling too. Since you can't help her, just focus on you.
I'm not saying your WW is not still talking with OM, but I promise your mind is making it worse than it is. Don't let your anger and pain amplify things. I did that and it is a huge reason my sitch is so hopeless.
Try an control the urge to over analyze everything she may or may not do, may or may not say. I know we broached this subject once but it's a hard habit to break. You so badly need to focus on yourself right now. It's painfully obvious you are struggling with GAL. It still seems everything you do or think is about her or the M not about you, work on you man, you can't go wrong in doing so
Coconut, thanks for dropping by on my thread. I've been catching up on your sitch. You've been given some great advice! WW will act unpredictably and sometimes they will do things which make no sense to any sane person but in their minds they are making things right, being friends etc. My W gave me a whole bunch of ties the day she decided to leave home! Hang on in there, if in doubt do nothing. Vent your anger here but for her be calm, cool and surprising. Don't jump when she calls, we all have at some time and what did it get us? Take the great advice here and dedicate time to you and your S.We all go through bad days and wish things could be different but the only satisfaction we can have now is to know that despite everything we are still standing. Who knows what will happen in the future but you'll be a better and stronger man if you take this time for you.
I haven't posted in a bit, and tbh not sure I want to... I'm backing off my NC boundary consequence, maybe a bad idea but I'm comfortable that she is not communicating with OM, other than visually seeing him occasionally at the station.
We had MC on Friday, that didn't go so well, we didn't discuss anything that hadn't already been brought up by one of us, but instead it kinda felt like we were both trying to get the counselor on our side instead of talking to each other... That'll be the last one of those, if not forever, at least for a long while.
W asked S and I if we wanted to go watch her FF class on Saturday, they were working on ladders, and she thought we may enjoy seeing her in class. What I really enjoyed was meeting everyone at the station (well not "everyone", I don't think I can be around OM yet, but he wasn't there) and seeing the interaction they all had, and the interaction she had with them. It's calming to see its not a frat house, and that much of the interaction is task oriented. I also enjoyed meeting her classmates, and we invited them all to the house next weekend for a BBQ and pool party, I think it would be good for me to get to know them on a personal level.
I couldn't sleep last night (first time in awhile), so I grabbed W phone at about 4 am and started snooping. I checked all the usual, no new communication apps, signed in her social media, etc etc... Nothing there. Then I went to browser history, found searches for sex memes, etc from day after Mother's Day (about 12 days ago, when I totally ignored her, rudely), nothing before or after that day. My first thought was to go get her out of bed and kick her out of house, but then found myself trying to make sense of it, why only one day, almost two weeks ago, and why would she not clear browser history (she's tech savvy). So I woke her up and told her we need to talk.
She stated that it was the day after she gave me her passwords, knew I'd be checking her phone, and since things were so bad those few days, she wanted to spite me and give me something to find... But things were getting better and she forgot she had done that or she would deleted them. I then got a real apology, with tears, saying that she felt like we were making progress and her spitefulness now set us back.
We talked for about an hour, she really opened up about everything, said she never had feelings for OM, he filled a void I had left, and she felt like she was spiteing me, that she never really fell for him and when I busted the A, she just wanted out and away from all that, and she hasn't talked to him since...
I know, just back burner it for awhile till things calm down, go further underground, etc... I see it all coming, but I gotta tell you, I believe her 100%. For the last week or so she's been herself, she's always home unless at academy and we work together, I can't say enough that I don't believe they are communicating.
Now, I do believe that something had to fill the void that was left open, but I believe the academy is doing that for her, we are closer than we've been since ILYBnilwy speech, we have a long way to go but I believe she is committed to working on our R.
Sandi, I have now read most of your sitch, and I kinda feel like you used this site to fill the void OM left in you, I feel like she's doing that with the academy, and I really believe it.
After our talk this morning about search history, she discussed the A, how it happened (he started pursuing, she didn't stop him), the kissing (3 times after class, total 10-15 min talking/kissing each time), the interaction with OM since. Answered a few Q from me.. I told her that I was moving past it, and that was the last time I would bring it up, that for the first time I felt like she's been really open and honest, and I'm done letting it consume me.
I then laid down in bed next to her, and she cuddled with me (first time), and I mean she kept shifting herself to get in tighter, and I was finally able to fall asleep at 630am.
My world may come crashing down because of this, but I feel it's safe to move forward to start repairing, I will continue GAL, and working on detaching.
W continues to be home most of the time and contacting me when out, even went to movies with the girls in my family, and text me when they were done hanging out after and was on way home.
I am going to my first meditation class today, found a group on meetup.com and it's only 5 dollars, never meditated but I think it may be a good thing for me to learn...
Have you watched the TED talk by Esther Perel about affairs? I think you may find it very interesting as you move toward recovery.
Darkness, I have not, is it a movie or something that can be found online?
You can see it online for free, it's a 20 min TED talk; she is fantastic. Just do a web search.
C, I think you are on the right track. In our gut we just know--you can ask a million questions, and try and make sense of things, and turn to others, but sometimes it's as simple as asking "what does my gut tell me?" When my H came back, I just knew. When you read posts here--including your own older posts--the more we question every little action, word, text, motive, interaction, etc, because we desperately don't want to accept what is happening. But in our gut we knew they were gone. I think the same is said for when they come back.
I am happy for both of you. She came back before things went on too long and so much more could have happened. Just look around you and read our stories--some of us lost our spouse to an A for a year or more. We never thought they would come back and we never thought we would even take them back for those like my H that did. We cannot predict the future.
I admire her for what she is doing; this is hard for her too. She now has to do the hard work of looking at herself, healing, and dealing with the shame and ultimately regret. She is also sacred you will not trust her ever again. I hope this sticks. Try not to make it harder for her. This takes a long time. Continue to put yourself first, take all the time you need to heal, and try not to react or make any decisions based on emotions.
Best of luck to you both! You will get through this.
-Blu
Thank you Blue, I feel like she is there with me now, there isn't a relationship, but at least I feel like it's just us. Now we have to remember how to be friends, but like u said, I need to find me first.
I never thought I'd ever say this, but the meditation class I went to was AWESOME... Talk about being in the present, everything just went away and so much stress released, I can't wait to try it in a park... Your so focused on the present that the past and future disappears, and the present is amplified. I only heard the clock ticking, cars off in the distance, people around me breathing, I really think it would be beautiful in nature.
I would highly recommend it to everyone on this board, you can sit in a chair or on the floor, whatever your comfortable with, and everywhere they do it is free, no tips or charges, just the experience. Just look up Sahajameditation.com to find a location near you, it's one hour stress free, and I walked away feeling so much better.
Sandi, if your around I have a question, if your not around I hope everything is ok. I read most of your sitch, everything I could find anyway, and I think my W see's me as u did your H... Like a brother, or good friend.. I didn't find anything regarding your first time being able to feel romantic with him, and I'm wondering what happened to be able for you to stop seeing him as a brother to as a lover?
My wife isn't quite as far away as you were. I occasionally get hugs and pop kisses hello and goodbye, and even a cuddle once, but she doesn't have any sexual feelings towards me... I'm ok with waiting, and I'm working on making myself more attractive, mysterious, etc... But I know in your case it was all you, so what were you able to do to make yourself attracted to him again?
Coconut I know every situation is different
But the first time around when I had WW that was the last thing to come back
I'll never forget the first night we went out together after we decided we were gonna really work on things. I thought to myself, we're gonna hookup and I was nervous. Well it didn't happen and there was even a decent amount of alcohol involved. That's when I realized it was gonna be a while. In the end I believe it was about 3 months before we were sexually active after that point. And the first several times were so awkward and weird. But eventually we settled back in to that arena. It definitely took time though
I think y'all are heading in the right direction, but this is something that will take time. Continue to work on yourself! Make the changes stick. Otherwise at some point you may be here again just like me
I have two issues I need some quick answers on.
My full story is
here here. The first two posts explain my situation.
My W and I are verbally separated. Her belongings are still in the house and she comes over daily (mornings after I've left to dress and evenings to see kids and do things in her office), but she leaves evenings to sleep at her brothers. Tomorrow she is taking S16 for his drivers test. I indicated Sunday, I will add him to insurance and remove her to keep the cost down. She had a few days earlier decided to remove me from her cell phone coverage (has not done so yet). She complained that she should be left on the policy as I am getting (to live in) the house (she would expect $ when it was sold but we just bought it 5 mos. ago so that's years away). Do I keep to my word and drop her but give a friendly reminder so she has time to get insurance? Wait 'til she drop me from phone coverage?
Next week, my nephew graduates from HS, and relatives are flying in to stay at W's brothers home thus displacing the bed shes been in the last 5 weeks. Since separated three times shes fanagled a way fro me to take the couch while she took our bed. (which I am paying $100 a month for). Earlier this week. I removed her pillow from it and she 'countered' by removing pictures from the walls and her bathroom items from the master. I am fully prepared to say I am sleeping in the bed. What else is a good thing to say?
Damn, the ups and downs are real... Told W today that I don't want to continue sharing MBR... I didn't tell her this part, I need to detach and sharing MBR I always find myself clinging to the hope she'll slide over and snuggle with me, or go to bed when I go, and she usually doesn't, I gotta drop expectations..
For the most part everything is going ok, but I need to relax, be patient and emotionally disconnect from her. It's gonna be a long road, but I'm trying to focus on me.
Happy that you're back Coconut. Yes, you now exactly what to do - so do it! Close your eyes, kick her out. You may feel alot better, but keep it her idea. It could just be projection.
I haven't posted in a bit, and tbh not sure I want to... I'm backing off my NC boundary consequence, maybe a bad idea but I'm comfortable that she is not communicating with OM, other than visually seeing him occasionally at the station.
I know, just back burner it for awhile till things calm down, go further underground, etc... I see it all coming, but I gotta tell you, I believe her 100%. For the last week or so she's been herself, she's always home unless at academy and we work together, I can't say enough that I don't believe they are communicating.
I gathered from what you were saying that you were kind of telling us to back off, b/c this is what you wanted....and decided, regardless of any advice you may receive.
Now, I do believe that something had to fill the void that was left open, but I believe the academy is doing that for her, we are closer than we've been since ILYBnilwy speech, we have a long way to go but I believe she is committed to working on our R.
Sandi, I have now read most of your sitch, and I kinda feel like you used this site to fill the void OM left in you, I feel like she's doing that with the academy, and I really believe it.
I have often said that the BB was my therapy. My H would not agree to attend MC, so I got it from the board. I guess you could say that in the beginning it filled a void.
After our talk this morning about search history, she discussed the A, how it happened (he started pursuing, she didn't stop him), the kissing (3 times after class, total 10-15 min talking/kissing each time), the interaction with OM since. Answered a few Q from me.. I told her that I was moving past it, and that was the last time I would bring it up, that for the first time I felt like she's been really open and honest, and I'm done letting it consume me.
I then laid down in bed next to her, and she cuddled with me (first time), and I mean she kept shifting herself to get in tighter, and I was finally able to fall asleep at 630am.
My world may come crashing down because of this, but I feel it's safe to move forward to start repairing, I will continue GAL, and working on detaching.
Damn, the ups and downs are real... Told W today that I don't want to continue sharing MBR...
Your timing could not be any worse than making this move at this time! Big mistake, Coconut. Look, she opened up and talked about the OM and apologized to you. You were gung ho about believing her and it didn't matter what anyone thought. You even said you were dropping the NC boundary. And
now......when she is at her most vulnerable and needing her H's support while she goes through withdrawals, you have told her to leave the MBR?
Here is a situation I have seen played over and over again. The LBH is anxious to have sex with his W, b/c to him, it seals the deal...so to speak. It's his security blanket. He needs to have sex, for him to move forward in the MR. He has to have the physical connection before he can feel better emotional. The longer there is no sex, the more focused he becomes on that issue.
Women need to feel better about the emotional side of the relationship,
first. She needs to feel the emotional intimacy in order to desire the physical intimacy. Seeing how polar opposite men and women are wired.....it's a wonder any babies were ever conceived.
You asked me about my situation and what I did to feel attracted to my H again. I think you were wanting to know how long before we were intimate again. I was going to give you an answer about it, but I think you would just compare your W and your situation to mine.
We were in a SSM for years, so having an A and me not having any desire for him did not help. And, now that I have read your latest post, I'll just tell you that it took much longer than you want to even think about right now. It was strained, felt fake, had disappointments, etc. And guess what else? His health took a big nosedive, and has not improved very much, sorry to say. So, yeah......it ain't easy. You would think it
should be, but here's the thing. If a couple remains together, they are going to face emotional and/or physical issues. It's just a matter of time. The MR does
not get easier when you grow old together. There will always be problems and challenges facing the couple. My H and I do not have the problems we once had. Great, huh? No, we just have new problems.
I had to will myself to respect my H. In other words, I may not have had to feeling of respect, but through my own free will, I chose to show him respect. The feelings will follow the action, if you really want to get there. I stopped reading romance novels. Now that may sound funny to some people, but it was a trigger for my imagination. And since I was struggling to not fantasize about OM, I could not feed my big old imagination with that type of reading material.
Anything that I knew deep down in my soul was a hindrance to my attitude toward my H.....I had to change it. I had to let go of my resentment. I decided that if he could forgive me for cheating on him, then I could forgive him for all those things I resented. That was a tough one!
I had to purposely talk and act more positive, b/c I knew how negativity from me affected him.
This took a long time, b/c I was so depressed and dealing with my own physical issues. Not making excuses, just telling you that it took about two years before I even felt ready to start working on the MR. It was tiny, baby steps.....but I might as well have been climbing a mountain.
Both of you will have your set of challenges, plus those you face as a couple. If you ask her to leave the MBR at this time, I think you will damage the MR even more than it already is. She will feel that the minute she opened up and apologized, you rejected her. When you decide you want her back into your bed, she won't be ready. I'm not saying
she will, but a lot of women would go straight back to the OM, if their H told them to leave the MBR while she's doing everything he has asked of her. If she wasn't doing what you asked....then yes, that would be the time to tell her to leave the MBR.
I'm not saying what's fair and what's not. I am just sharing how a woman will feel in this type of situation. Once the bed splits, it is harder getting back to that intimate setting.
Your biggest problem at the moment seems to be your timing. And, the fact you swing from one polar to the next. You need to find balance.
Coconut,
Sandi couldn't be more right. I hope you read my response to you about my situation the first time around. I was just like you.
I wanted to "seal the deal" as fast as possible
It was so hard to have that patience and realize that it was going to take some time.
It was so awkward the first few times. I promise it will get better though. But you cant force it or the timing
To me your W definitely opened up and was ready to start "fixing" the damage, but that is going to take time
Something I use to always write during my first stint here patience patience patience!!!
Sandi, but how does Coconut know that it's not temp-checking? This is all so confusing. He's trying to protect his broken heart and is just doing what comes naturally, pushing the hurt away - his W.
CBT, I did read your first response, and now your second.. I know what you are saying, but it's easy to know, hard to do...
btw, I am not frustrated from lack of ML, I don't expect to jump back to that, it's just having expectations that I can't get past.. but that's my issue, not hers.
Sandi, your always welcome to respond, I was just saying that I knew what concerns there are with what I was accepting, and that I accepted those possibilities when I backed off my NC boundary. Although I must admit is not an easy thing to trust her with him there, but she is being transparent.
Anyway, I will speak with my W later, I will acknowledge her efforts and will tell her that my request was not carefully thought out and I am no longer asking that she move out of MBR.
Sandi, but how does Coconut know that it's not temp-checking? This is all so confusing. He's trying to protect his broken heart and is just doing what comes naturally, pushing the hurt away - his W.
DDJ, I believe that my W has committed herself to trying to move forward with just her and I, and not having more contact with OM than what is absolutely necessary. So Sandi is saying that if that is what I want, why am I pushing her away when she is giving it to me...
My issues are mine, I need to detach, but I need to do that without actually pushing her away and making her feel like she doesn't have my support. MY ISSUE, I need to sole it without affecting her negatively. If she was still pursuing the A, Sandi would not have given that advise.
Oh trust me. I definitely know its a lot easier said than done.
That's why I was letting you know my experience.
I totally get it
I remember many a night I could not stand being in bed with my W. Everysingle time it was due to my thoughts at the time. Yes it is mucheeasier to say feck off and come back when fully there.
But Michele does advise to ask if doing this brings you closer or further from your goal?
When I was depressed I hated being in bed with myw I was full of resentment for our situation. We barely spoke and both kept our distance.HHorrible situation.Today I appreciate the little contact o have ans am comforted by her being beside me. It is all down to a change in my thinking. It is definitely not accepting this as as good as it gets.
Best wishes
Oh, and BluWave started a thread that's been bouncing around regarding not being Mr. Nice Guy...
From what I have read about that "condition", I think it may well describe my general personality. I have ordered the book to learn more. May fall in line nicely with getting my balls back and taking control in my household.
Sandi, but how does Coconut know that it's not temp-checking? This is all so confusing. He's trying to protect his broken heart and is just doing what comes naturally, pushing the hurt away - his W.
Based on what Coconut has said, I saw no signs that hinted at her temp checking. So far as we know, she has cooperated with what he required of her. He felt very satisfied that she was being truthful and gave a sincere apology. Then that night after going to bed, they cuddled. Could it have all been a lie? Sure, but at the moment he has nothing showing him that she is being deceitful.
She was not pushing herself on him. I did not see any action from him that indicated he was trying to protect his heart from her. At least, not that night she apologized. Remember, he was the one who decided he would remove the NC boundary, and said she was doing what he needed. It was later he wanted her to leave the MBR b/c he was anxious about the sex issue. He realized how tough it could be to sleep with her and her not wanting sex. That was probably him protecting himself. But it was not the correct staking make after she willingly did what he asked. Frankly, the fact that was responding to his body, seem positive to me. I can only imagine how confused she felt when he told her he wanted her to sleep somewhere else. He needs to prepare himself tonight, b/c she may decide they can't work through these problems. I hope not, but it's a possibility.
I am sure it must be terribly confusing when a LBS is trying to grasp all this information while under a lot of stress. One can't write it all out in a single post. My posts are usually too long, and people skip over some of it.
To sum this another way...........the H must take a stand. He is the lighthouse. She is out there in the waves being tossed around by her emotions. When she looks at him, she needs to see him standing tall and strong. He shines a beam of light to show her how to get back into a healthy MR. It is up to her to follow the lighted way or remain in stormy waters. When he tells her what it will take to save the MR,
that is shinning the beam of light..........he is showing her the way back. It takes a great deal of strength to stand firmly and not crash under the strain. If the lighthouse is sending mixed messages.......well, you can see what a mess it could be.
Now, if the WW tells him that she will not end the A, or won't agree to NC, transparency, etc., then
that is the time to ask her to sleep in another room......if that's what he wants. He should not do it if she is cooperating with what he has said he needs from her.
If at any point he should discover she has been deceitful, he can decide if he wants her out of the MBR. However, if the W is doing what he said it would take.........why would he turn around and punish her? That makes no sense at all.
As for protecting his heart, it has to come through detaching from the whole co-dependent, nice-guy traits........enforce boundaries, and stick to the transparency plan until she is completely over the addiction of the affair/OM.
It is not time to trust her completely. He can trust, but verify. As long as her words matches her actions and attitude......he can allow his trust to slowly grow. Right now, it is just too early. This is a critical time for both of them. He has to be alert and on guard. Most LBH'S I have seen, wants to hear her apologize and then they go to bed, have sex, and then he's ready for everything to fall back into place. Sorry, but it just isn't that simple and it takes a long time and hard work to survive this crises........and hope to have a successful MR.
My posts are usually too long, and people skip over some of it.
Sandi,
I read every word from the posts I find from you. Hoping I can understand my WW and will make me more knowledgeable for the future with or without my WW.
Thanks, Jim. I appreciate it.
I love your posts, drool on every word. My WW is clearly with OM2 or om3 by now. She said last night that she'll give up alcohol and new friends.
I will see what her actions are and will not stress her even more. Still awaiting transparency with phone.
Sandi, must she come clean with cheating, or will that take time?
Sandi, your posts are never too long, I too read every word in your posts, in fact, some I wish were longer. You have a talent at clearly explaining what's going on, and you have been the source of many ah-ha moments for me and many others.
So last night I told W that I really spent time thinking about what she has done to start moving forward, that I appreciate the actions she has taken on her own to regain my trust, and follow though on the actions I have requested. I apologized that I allowed my insecurities to move me to make the request that she moved out of the MBR, and that my request was counter intuitive to what we were trying to work towards.
She really seemed to appreciate my owning up that it was a mistake to want that, and that I recognized her attempts to do things to regain my trust. She again went to bed with me to watch tv when I went to sleep, and even laid her head on my shoulder while I fell asleep. Crises averted.
What she's done to start making things right:
1. Texts me constantly with her location and goings on.
2. Texts me occasionally to just say hi, and she's thinking of me
3. When I walk in and she's on phone, she holds phone towards me so I can see what she's doing.
4. Doesn't guard phone, leaves it laying around
5. Doesn't comment negatively when she sees me going through her phone
6. Tells me when OM is at station, and reassures me she is not talking with him or working next to him.
7. Opens up about how she's feeling about how things are going, good and bad.
8. Has started discussing what would make her happy if I did.
9. Her small demonstrations of affection are sincere, I.e. when giving a hello or goodbye kiss, she holds her gaze for a second and doesn't just turn away righ away.
10. Reassures me that it's going to take awhile, but that she's trying and occasionally has a real draw to me, that her feelings for me are coming back, but in small bouts.
I think that is about as good as you could expect from her. Just the fact she did not go to a separate room to sleep is a positive.
I am relieved that things went well. I think she is trying to reassure you, and at the same time tell you it will take a little time for her to get there.
I agree (based on your posts) that she doesn't seem as far gone as I was, so take that as a positive, too.
Don't let what I am about to say throw you for a loop. Since she is apparently cooperating and doing what you have asked, then you can start being more friendly and warm toward her. You can engage in conversations a little more. This is not the time to pull back. Don't smother her, and don't act as if you are breathing down her neck.........you don't have to be glued to her hip. In fact, she will need a little space at times. I am just saying that once the WW turns toward the M again, the H should not be cold, acting sulled or hurt, etc. When the couple reaches this place in the road, he needs to be a little warmer and more pleasant, more fun (if possible), but not over doing it. If the H over kills on his excitement and act as if everything is fine now..........it could cause her to pull back. She's like that skittish squirrel.
It is not easy for either one of the spouses who reach this point. Their is a lot of hard work ahead of them. One couple cannot gauge their amount of progress and time with another couple's progress. Truthfully, I was surprised that Coconut's W did not put up a lot more resistance, and if she had had to choose between him or the firefighting.......there could have been a different outcome. I am still concerned about the OM being there. The next few weeks will be critical.
Anyway, I suggest that you try to keep things light when at home with the family. In other words, don't allow the atmosphere to be heavy and serious all the time (as long as she's doing what she's suppose to do). You can engage in family togetherness and fun activities with her and son. Keep the interactions pleasant, friendly, and warm. Just stay alert and don't let your guard down.
I have to say, Coconut, I feel more encouraged about the situation than I've been about some others on the board. We will hope and pray together that she will have the strength to avoid OM. She will need your encouragement, affirmation, and a sense of teamwork between the two of you.
I would tell any LBH who is at this point in his situation (or really....at any point), to be careful during this time of her accountability that you do not appear as being self-righteous when interacting with her. You are not her judge or her parent. I think for some men, trying to present a picture of strength and firmness.......(while he's dealing with his own inner turmoil)........has to be watchful that he does not appear to be her lord or warden. Am I making sense?
For some WW's, she can sense very quickly if her H is "looking down" on her, or putting himself up a little higher than her. I have seen a few men in past years who had developed a self-righteous attitude. Several even told me that NOTHING was worse than cheating. Nothing??? I can almost guarantee you that a flare of rebellion will surely show itself if your W believes you feel better than her b/c you haven't cheated......and she did. Nobody is without sin!
I think men are so focused on securing the MR, and he doesn't deal with some feelings that try to surface. Many have discovered that after they reconcile he starts experiencing resentment, bitterness, and coldness toward his W. And..........sometimes the LBH becomes the WAH. Ironic, isn't it?
I encourage the LBH'S to get therapy or spiritual counseling, of they have these negative feelings. It is understandable how a LBS could experience these things, so just find help to work through it.
After reconciliation, I really believe the couple needs a good family therapist, or some source to guide them during piecing.
So apparently the girls in my wife's firefighter class are going for a girls night out and have invited my wife.. She showed me the text and I believe that is the case, but she's asking if I'm ok with it...
So my gut instinct tells me say yes, it's just the girls, and they are coming to my house the next day, so it is highly unlikely my W would do anything inappropriate since I will be spending the next day with them all.... But even though I believe it, I know my anxiety is going to shoot through the roof, although I am going out that night also..
Also, this is nothing new, as my wife has always enjoyed the girls nights out, just usually with our friends that I know very well..
I guess it's gonna happen sooner or later, so what do you think?
To me she is being as open and transparent as possible
My W did the same thing the first few months we started working on things
My anxiety was high, but I knew it was the starting point of try to make things right
It's gonna take a while for that anxiety to go away. You might as well start working on that now
So they are spending the night together......like a bunking party?
Well, this is a tough one for you, I am sure. Even though I don't like to see a WW immediately join in an overnight event..... I kind of think you are going to have act as if you are relaxed and trusting her. I wouldn't even require that she texts you throughout her girls night out. If she volunteers, fine, but otherwise....just show a presence of trust (even if your stomach's in knots). If she's smart, she'll know you are giving her a chance to earn a little more trust.
If there is any hanky-panky, I think it will show up. Remain calm, in fact why not go out yourself? Then the next day, you can silently evaluate your W's attitude when they come back to the house.
Don't ask her a lot of questions, b/c it could appear like interrogation.
Sandi, it's not overnight, just going out to a club/bar for a few hours.. Actually, it seems that they are changing locations to go to a country bar, to do some line dancing (I'm much more comfortable with than original plan), I was planning on not asking for reassurances because I want to see what she does on her own. With the change of venue my anxiety has gone way down (it's right next to the house and we've been there a lot together), so I'm pretty happy right now. The original plan was to go to a high class bar, which has a reputation as a milf bar.
As for me, I am going out with some friends, I actually had my plans in place first so I think that made it easier for her to ask me about her going out. She also asked me to go out with her the next night, pseudo date night, which I think is a good sign. Things seem to be going good, but I am still very cautious...
Okay, that's good!
Glad you are going out, too.
Just a tip about the pseudo date night, when talking to her about it, don't refer to it as a "date", even if she does. The date word tends to put weight in the wrong places, thus causing some pressure. Maybe think of it as "fun" night.
Ok, so my plans fell through, so I'm at home while she's out... She hasn't text (which I was hoping she would have offered reassurance), and I'm trying to hold off texting her.... I'm still ok with who she went out with and where she went, I'm just surprised she hasn't text, but that's putting expectations on her that I shouldn't do...
And now, just a few minutes after my last post, she texts "hey babe, how are you"... My analyzing mind asks why she doesn't say I'm thinking of you... Instead it feels like she's checking to see if I'm awake, grrr, why do I have to over analyze everything... I'm just gonna stay silent and not respond, pretty much what I would always do this time of night, it's almost 1 am here..
And now, just a few minutes after my last post, she texts "hey babe, how are you"... My analyzing mind asks why she doesn't say I'm thinking of you... Instead it feels like she's checking to see if I'm awake, grrr, why do I have to over analyze everything... I'm just gonna stay silent and not respond, pretty much what I would always do this time of night, it's almost 1 am here..
Wha...WHAT?! You must be thick-headed....wow.
She called you "babe" which is GREAT in my book AND asked how you were. Super!!!
And you're not happy? What the hell?? Geez..that's too bad because YOU lost an opportunity for some fun, light-hearted exchanges with W. You need to understand that W was most definitely thinking of you otherwise she wouldn't have bothered to text you at all.
I think it's high time for you to read Gottman's two books called
Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work and
The Relationship Cure. They are perfect for your current sitch. You two need to learn how to reconnect as friends and work on the emotional connection.
For some WW's, she can sense very quickly if her H is "looking down" on her, or putting himself up a little higher than her. I have seen a few men in past years who had developed a self-righteous attitude. Several even told me that NOTHING was worse than cheating. Nothing??? I can almost guarantee you that a flare of rebellion will surely show itself if your W believes you feel better than her b/c you haven't cheated......and she did. Nobody is without sin!
Sandi, I hesitate to post because I think I support your main point which is how a LBS should act, and common pitfalls. I agree it can bring a marriage down if an LBS feels entitled to cling to resentment or act diminishing towards their feelings.
But while we all have sin, our society recognizes a difference. Murder isn't the same as theft which isn't the same as using your water cup for fountain soda at a fast food joint.
I do think that infidelity is the worst thing that can happen in a relationship. Society has softened on this quite a bit and there's a new age attitude going on that infidelity can be a catalyst for both people to grow and take their relationship to the next level. While that is possible, and in his position I root for him in his quest to do just that, I can't join the chorus of voices that minimize the betrayal cheating is.
For me personally I have come a ways on this one. When I started I would've worked through it with XW shortly after BD. Now I'm glad we didn't. I would rather be single for the count than with someone that is capable of cheating. Don't get me started on the 'we're all capable given the right circumstance', it's simply not true. But if I were to even think about working through a betrayal like this, I couldn't even consider it unless I was convinced that WW understood how atrocious it really was. If she had the attitude 'It was a bad relationship and we both made mistakes' when the topic came up that wouldn't work for me. If WW didn't understand that she broke trust and escalated the pain in the relationship in a permanent and devastating way that could never be fully recovered from, and that it was out of bounds by miles, and committed to being a better person that wouldn't ever have cheating in her vocabulary again...well, no go for this guy.
Now, forgiveness is critical. Losing the score keeping is critical. Moving forward. Not bringing it up or lording it over her. Recognizing that while her response was inappropriate that doesn't diminish the validity of her feelings and the pain in her relationship. Working together as a partnership and not with an attitude of 'now I've got you, you'll pay for what you've done and make it up to me'. All good stuff.
But let's do all of this without further contributing to the breakdown of the little that's left in belief in commitment.
By the way Sandi, thank you so much for posting and helping so many for so long. I have been wanting to tell you that, I read all of your posts and am so appreciative for you. I thought I'd better say that now so you knew I was fired up about infidelity, not you!
And now, just a few minutes after my last post, she texts "hey babe, how are you"... My analyzing mind asks why she doesn't say I'm thinking of you... Instead it feels like she's checking to see if I'm awake, grrr, why do I have to over analyze everything... I'm just gonna stay silent and not respond, pretty much what I would always do this time of night, it's almost 1 am here..
Wha...WHAT?! You must be thick-headed....wow.
She called you "babe" which is GREAT in my book AND asked how you were. Super!!!
And you're not happy? What the hell?? Geez..that's too bad because YOU lost an opportunity for some fun, light-hearted exchanges with W. You need to understand that W was most definitely thinking of you otherwise she wouldn't have bothered to text you at all.
I think it's high time for you to read Gottman's two books called
Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work and
The Relationship Cure. They are perfect for your current sitch. You two need to learn how to reconnect as friends and work on the emotional connection.
I agree with Wonka. The fact that she texted you shows she was thinking of you. Saying it would be repetitive.
As for her not texting you earlier--I think long term it's healthier for spouses to be able to have fun and stay present where they are when they are apart. You don't want to "fix" your current issues by causing another problem--spouses who are emotionally fused.
I understand why it was a tough night for you. But you made it through! Next time should be a little easier.
Please start a new thread.
I apologize to all LBH'S for appearing as to minimize the degree of the affects an A has on a MR. That was far from my intentions. I should have explained it was the feelings of a WW.
I was strictly speaking from that position I was in when I came to the board as a WW who was trying to work through my issues and stay in my M. My point was about my feelings and how it affected me, as a WW, to see self-righteousness (IMHO) in a few of the LBH'S. I think it was hitting a raw nerve in me.........and perhaps I'm projecting when I say I think it could be the case with a lot of WW's trying to get back on track with her MR. If she still has resentment, she's likely to bristle if she senses any self righteous attitude in her H.
Those LBH'S probably meant it the way you stated, Zues, but I was reading it as though they were saying infedility was the worst sin in the world (not just in the M). As a WW, I was very defensive about it, and my resentment would quickly turn on my H. I just would not accept, at that point, that he was so much better.......more right....... than me.......b/c my mindset was not ready to take full responsibility for the hurt I had caused. (At that time I had not felt true remose). I could not accept that it was the worst thing I could ever do. My guilt was stinging.
I meant to just tell H's who were in Coconut's shoes at the point of "holding her feet to the fire", to be careful about giving her the impression he was looking down at her.
((LBH'S ))