New thread started per request:
Previous threads:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2659515&page=1http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2669140#Post2669140Married 18 years, wife has been emailing ex-boyfriend for at least 9 years before I discovered. When confronted she wanted separation. I exposed her after trying to get her to stay for 3 weeks. She pretended to be reconciling and gaslighted me instead, secretly planning D and then filed in February 2016.
CWOL,
I know you were asking about how to have a life when half of your money is going away. I don't know what state you're in, but guessing some no-fault state. In CA, I'm having to prove I'm looking for work (I worked with W) so she gives me support check. I'm guessing that this isn't the case with you, and your W can sit around and do nothing.
I do know in some states if you can prove an affair, you can be off the hook for a lot, if not everything. Too bad that's not where you're living.
I don't know what to tell you about GAL and future relationships. I will need a job - and at almost 60 nobody is going to take me in my previous line of work. Young person's game. So, I need to get my Real Estate license to have any hope of getting a decent income. All I could think of for you is to continue to try to improve your career standing for more income, or maybe meet a gal who's pulling in a fair amount? Somebody who really cares about you will make things work regardless.
It's hell to think about getting this far in life, and then going back to a lower level of quality of life. But that's where we're at.
some states also allow you to sue the OP for damages. North Carolina, Hawaii, and a few others.
CWOL,
I know you were asking about how to have a life when half of your money is going away. I don't know what state you're in, but guessing some no-fault state. In CA, I'm having to prove I'm looking for work (I worked with W) so she gives me support check. I'm guessing that this isn't the case with you, and your W can sit around and do nothing.
I'm in the same boat as you, but on the other side. My WW has a 15 hour a week job. It'll be a "transition" time for the judge to make sure she is phased out of her underemployment. She has a BS and was making decent money before she met me, but that was 20 years ago. She will have various excuses for not getting a full-time job in order to continue to leech off me.
We haven't lived a lavish lifestyle and that is why I was able to pay off my house so early in a very expensive real estate area. But if I were to get back into the dating scene again it will cost me. I really don't want to have to start over at 47. I make good money and part of this I feel is WW waiting for me to get to a stable executive position before she did this. I don't think I will live at a substantially lower quality of life but I just feel I'm getting a bum deal through all this.
some states also allow you to sue the OP for damages. North Carolina, Hawaii, and a few others.
I should have moved to one of those states a year ago. WW always wanted to live in HI! Too late. My state is very Liberal so adultery is less of a crime than jaywalking. Not even considered in court.
WW asked me about payments for her separation agreement. I told her my L advised that we needed for her L to file the stipulation to remove her RFO from the calendar first, before I make the payments. She said, "Fine, I will check with my L!" She said it in such a way that was really infuriating to me, with a total sense of entitlement and lack of guilt for what she is putting us through. I find that whenever she brings up the D or M issues, I get very angry. Thus, I have kept all these discussions to the very minimal.
I've signed up for some DB coaching. Hopefully they'll give me useful tips on how to handle this situation and also to control my emotions.
My WW's L filed the stipulations to remove our court date, I guess that is good, less money wasted for our family on stupid legal maneuvers by her L.
I will have to liquidate a large bond position in our joint account to pay her L off. Even though it's our joint account, it still [censored].
We are sharing my S11's expenses 50/50. I gave WW an accounting of what I've paid so far, she is questioning small charges here and there... Very annoying, since I'm funding everything anyway (the money she will pay me back came from me to start with!)
Still, it means the beginning of her moving out. Ugh, this part is going to be tough. I have heard that it will be easier not living under the same roof to execute the DB plan. I am still very upset about paying her alimony at this stage of the game.
CWOL,
That really stinks that you gotta pay her alimony. Your right it is easier to DB while they are not living under the same roof, but i will tell you it gets lonely. Hang in there brother.
Thanks GWH
Yes, I gotta pay her alimony and the divorce is just beginning. It's called temporary spousal support in our Liberal state. It's supposed to help "maintain" a lifestyle for my WW that she chose to abandon because of her cheating.
Yes, I am afraid of the loneliness, and what it will do to my psyche. Especially for the 50% of the time that my WW will have S11. I have never really be away from him since he was born, except for some short business trips. It will be hard for both of us. Hope WW can see the results of her actions once she moves out and her anger and shame subsides.
CWOL
In the same boat with you with paying support starting shortly and at age 50 being alone for the first time in 13 years or so.....And have a D7....its too hard
Perhaps she will see what a mistake she has made but it seems many don't whether its the H or W that is the driver of the divorce
My STBX blames me every chance she gets on anything ...the other day...those faces you make is why we are getting divorced? Really?
It is unfair to not want the divorce , have to pay dearly for it both financially and emotionally, and be stuck in the lonely cloud of being part of the divorce.
I hope you can get through it as doing stuff/GAl'ing will help but also a support system around you. It's hard...I struggle daily and then have good days. Be the best parent you can and the rest hopefully takes care of itself. Focus on S11!!!!
Rich4j,
Sorry to hear that. Thanks for the boost.
Going to be alone at 47 for the first time in 18 years too. S11 is a lot easier than D7, though.
I'm hoping her anger will dissipate and she'll realize that OM is nothing but an illusion.
Yes, WW pulls reasons out of thin air. She even admitted it herself, she doesn't talk to her friends any more because she thought her reasons for wanting to divorce are ridiculous when she was telling them! The most ridiculous one I heard back from her friends was that S11 and I don't pick up the phone when the Caller ID says it's from her mother! Really?
Her story kept changing, originally it was we grown apart in the past year, then the past two years, then when I asked her about the emails from 9 years ago, she didn't have anything to say to me.
What I can't believe is her mother did a 180 from totally against the D to now supporting the D. She told me she was embarrassed by her daughter's behavior but then she said she needed to support her. My WW feed off her as she's pretty much the only one that she talks to now.
It is very hard for me to get a support system going. My friends and family are supportive but they do not understand the pain. They all say, you are a fool for wanting to keep the marriage going when she's already proved herself to cheat on you twice. They just don't understand how us Betrayed Husbands view the marriage.
You're right, it's a struggle daily. Every night I am hoping to wake up with this whole thing being a nightmare. I'm back to waking up 3-4 times a night again, despite the melatonin and Wellbutrin. Hanging in there.
My WW has invented every 'reason' that she was unhappy too. Not one of them is the fact that she falls for guys who give her attention or that she has no understanding of commitment. Oh well.
CWOL,
I had to check out your thread.
Speaking of spousal complaints, apparently the most egregious act that I committed during my marriage occurred about one year into our marriage. My wife asked me to throw her a old towel that she wanted to use to do some cleaning in the kitchen. I was in the laundry room she was on the other side of the kitchen counter. I threw the towel and evidently it landed in a small pile of dirt and debris that she'd just swept-up. I couldn't see the pile and I didn't know the pile was there and you know how precise you can be when throwing a towel. The towel landed in the pile of dirt and some of the pile was scattered. She got mad and told me I messed-up her pile of dirt (or something to that effect). Apparently I said, "Well, sweep it up!" I guess that was a big mistake. I barely remember the event but she remembers it like it was yesterday. She uses that event to make a case that I don't respect her or love her and I've never respected her or loved her. And thus, my mind is blown. I think I've apologized at least one hundred times for that but to no avail.
As much as I wish I didn't love that woman, I still love her dearly; it does seem like a nightmare. I'm glad you're hanging in there CWOL, me too!
My WW has invented every 'reason' that she was unhappy too. Not one of them is the fact that she falls for guys who give her attention or that she has no understanding of commitment. Oh well.
My WW never admitted to the EA with her XBF, but said, "Even if there were no OM, I would have wanted a separation. The OM just sped it up a couple months." Really? The guy you've been emailing for the past nine years?
She wouldn't admit to her EA and so I gave our friends who asked the email trail. Nobody doubted me afterwards.
Doodler,
The most annoying complaint she gave me was that I never knew that she had postpartum depression after our son was born. She said she told me afterward when there was a news story describing the condition because of some stars experiencing it, it was a relatively newly coined term at that time. I told her, yes, I remember you were kind of sad about the shape of your body, but you bounced right back after a couple months! So to blame me now, 11 years later, for not being clairvoyant back then?!? I didn't know what to say to that.
CWOL,
Our stories are amazingly similar. My wife denies she's had an EA. And, deny is the wrong word for it. She fully believes it's just a very close friendship so she's not denying anything because she doesn't believe she's doing anything wrong. The marriage counselor said it's an EA. My wife is willing to divorce me because I won't accept her "special friend" and she still doesn't believe it's an EA. I wish I had the antidote for special friend infatuation, but I've got no clue how it's cured.
My WW denied it was an EA, she said the guy had nothing to do with her wanting to separate. Really? You email your ex-boyfriend for nine years and expect me to believe that? The ex-boyfriend who just got a second divorce a few months before you guys sent 211 emails back and forth? The one you planned to meet up with in December before I blew it up? If it's just a "special" friend, you could have cc:'ed me on your emails.
She continued to deny it until I showed it to my MIL. My MIL went ballistics on my WW because she knows the OM. She even called up the OM and told her to stop communicating with her daughter. But even after all this, I overheard her phone call with the OM as she was prepared to file D against me. But by then she already turned my MIL so it was a lost cause. That's what really enabled her D, I just can't believe my MIL who was so moral and anti-OM flipped.
But she is still against her D contacting OM, but it's too late now.
They are living in their affair fogs and doing all the self-centered, selfish things that an affair entails. They reach into the past to dig up anything that they can use to justify their victimhood and therefore their behavior in all of this. Male waywards do the same, or at least mine does.
I'm sorry that it's happening to you both, CWOL and doodler.
Thanks, the betrayal was really hard to take. We know we have issues but Affairs are not justified.
Working on myself to GAL
My wife, with her 1,200+ texts and hundreds of phone calls to OM, every MONTH, still firmly believes OM is 'just a friend'. Everyone she talks to knows 'it's just a friend'.
It's like the old wife watched her brain ooze out of her right ear, shrugged her shoulders, and crammed another brain into her skull. Completely different woman.
No way to stop the alien infestation. My restarting the D only made her more enboldened to continue the EA, now taking birth control, lost 50 lbs, buying new clothes, in anticipation of her new life with OM.
Ugh.
Hang in there boys, we're in for some chop!
Yes, that's why I give her email transcript to those who are interested who question "the friendship."
Just picked up her 20 minute phone call to OM this morning... Ugh, I am so upset, they are chatting about photos they shared, etc. I can see why snooping is not good for my mental health, I was just trying to uncover her next legal strategy.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
A lot of women want to live the single life and keep a foot in the M, too. They want the best of both worlds. We call it cake eating. They usually want all the advantages they had in the M, without the disadvantages. You know, like enjoying family times together. Doing things "as a family".......and of course, it's always "for the sake of the kids". No, it's for the sake of the WW! Everything is about her. She will still want to rule the roost, and partake in family events, maybe even have her time to cry on your shoulder when things don't go like she thought they would, or she'll expect you to run over ever times she beckons...........you know, kind of like she is still playing the role of your W, but she's not really.
Sandi, what you described is what my WW envisions as "amicable co-parenting." Even though she's knee-deep in our divorce proceedings, she still goes out to dinner with my son and I and we drive together to his baseball games. She's getting half my paycheck for alimony and child support, yet she demands that I pay for various things up front.
Maybe you can come over to my thread to help me strategize the best way to steer this to my advantage?
The WW's definition of amicable co-parenting is "cake eating". I have seen both the WW and the LBH'S use their kids for an excuse all through this forum. The WW gets her need for feeling like a family, and the H gets to be near her. But it is twisted and it does work toward the WW ending her A and wanting to be a real wife to her H.
I believe a H should look at this as if he were remarried and had a life with someone else. Would he invite his ex-WW to have dinner with him and the kids? Would he take her to the games and sit with her as though they were still M? Would she be included in the family events? Not if he intended staying M to his new W!
And let's say she got M to someone else. That would put the brakes on her inviting herself to join you and the kids.
My grown children are divorced. After the initial pain finally settled, they had the most amicable divorces of anyone I have ever known. But the ONLY time their ex's were included in the family gathering has been when there was a death. When the kids have something special at school, we all attend and are friendly......but we don't ride together and sit together b/c the ex's are M to other people. (Btw, the ex's were both involved in affairs......FWIW). There will always be things with the kids that bring the two sides together at the same location or event.
You may not want to use what I've suggested as any type of guideline. Your WW is taking full advantage, as usual. When she doesn't get her way, she pulls the "amicable co-parenting" card. Now there may be some nuts on the Internet who suggests doing what she wants, but from what I have read..........nothing was ever said about the parents acting as though they are still a couple, joining together to have meals or go to games, or whatever. It seems to me that would be more confusing or get the hopes up for the kids. So, she is still using you and pushing you around, just like before.
She is not going to change as long as you cater to her. She has the best of both worlds, and she knows it. Want my honest advice about your situation? Drop her! That's the only hope in getting back the real W you want. She still has you! Can't you see that? You have to drop her and stop playing as if you are still a couple. It's not fair to the kids, and it is not the definition of amicable co-parenting. It is the definition of the selfishness of a WW cake eating. Stop the spoiling, once and for all.
So, step # 1 is to drop her.
Thanks for the advice, Sandi.
Yes, I need to drop her, it has been very tough for me to do this but I must do it.
Just found out that she is filing a motion to garnish my paychecks. I just made the very first payment and haven't even been late yet. Can they do that?!? Just sent an email to my L.
CWOL, I don't know which state you live in, but spousal support is on its way out in most places. Would her contact with OM be a factor legally in your state? I know that in my state, infidelity is a reason to not get spousal support at all. In a state like mine, it would be worth hiring a private investigator to get proof, if you at all think this could be a PA.
The advantage for you with spousal support is that it is tax deductible for you, while child support is not, and that spousal support gets added to her income before child support is calculated.
Child support can usually be garnished on the request of the recipient, but you could object, I guess. If she wants CS collected through the state, they'll usually collect the spousal support as well.
I haven't read much about your legal situation, so just wanted to throw that out there.
The state I'm in is a completely no-fault state. Infidelity is never considered here. Believe me, this is the first fact I checked with the four lawyers I interviewed before retaining my current lawyer.
Also, spousal support (alimony) is definitely NOT on its way out in my state. My L has already tried to grind it down to the minimal but because of the huge disparity in income, basically I share half my take home pay with my WW.
It's completely unfair, since I'm not the one who strayed and is breaking up the family. But unfortunately my state is totally biased against men/dads.
I'm checking with my L to see how we can object to the garnishment.
Checked with my L, in my lovely state it is not possible to contest garnishment if child support is involved. If there is spousal support in the order, they will garnish it too.
This is terrible.
It's not the money but having it processed through our HR department will be an embarrassment for me.
So, step # 1 is to drop her.
For the record...the above is contrary to MWD's advice and, since you still hope to save the marriage, is completely manipulative, transparent and more likely to result in you ending up permanently divorced.
If you actually want to be divorced and no longer wish to remain married...then go for it.
If you still want to save your marriage, then Step #1 is "no contact for life with OM" and the more you interfere with OM and that fantasy relationship the better. The fact is...the OM remains living an Ocean away. She's not seen him in person in forever. They aren't having sex. She's completely wayward thinking and lost to you right now but "dropping her" without explanation or reason isn't going to magically wake her up after 29 years or so of cheating on you. Instead...you'll just be giving her what she considers real rationalizations and justifications for leaving you. She say it proves you don't love her (and never did). Being what she would perceives as a jerk ....HELPS her. The reason spending time with her and trying to save the marriage infuriates her is because it's making divorce harder for her to do.
[note - I'm not saying it's never in the history of the world not worked....it just needs to be strategized and framed properly - to be more effective but we are still discussing strategy - there is no perfect strategy - another caveat - dropping the wayward husband works well for betrayed wives so it's understandable women would recommend this strategy]
That being said....I'm a big advocate of Parallel Parenting (google it). In time...if she continues down this path, OM comes to town and you're basically washing your hands of her (unless she comes begging back at which time you might consider it), then explaining to her that her behavior has devastated you and that until such time as she ends her affair (no contact for life) and commits to working a recovery plan with you, that you do not want to see or speak to her any more and that communication regarding the children will need to be handled by a third party then you "drop her" and go to Parallel Parenting parameters for high conflict divorce is the way to go. Now the main reason you actually do this is FOR YOU. To protect your love tank in case she changes her mind soon and because YOU are done trying to save the marriage all by yourself and need to release her because she refuses to change her wayward ways. Going dark is for YOU. It gives you a chance to breath and GAL while your wife deals with the FULL natural consequences of her choices and so OM has to then meet ALL her needs. At that time, I'd also suggest you go dark on your mother in law.....when the kids are with you... don't allow them to see the kids or you at all.
Consider this....if you "drop her" and it "doesn't work" - where do you go from there? If you re-engage - your manipulation by dropping her becomes transparent. So ...when you actually "go dark" you better be doing it FOR YOU...because you are done trying and just can't keep fighting this fight anymore because once you "go dark" behind a boundary of "until you go no contact for life with OM and commit to recovery"....there's no turning back on that. It's not a strategy you can really test.
Going dark is not as effective at ultimately saving your marriage than maintaining as much of a relationship as you can right now and fighting from the inside. Maybe you decide to go dark when she moves out or, I think, in about a month when the high of the initial freedom she feels after moving out starts to wain and the withdrawal will be most poignant. You'll be divorced soon and after a period of withdrawal (you'll both go through withdrawal) chances are...if you go dark now...you'll end up permanently divorced. From what I know about your situation, I think your wife's high need for family time may work in your favor but going dark is still a longshot. Therefore...for the time being and as long as OM doesn't come to the US for a visit....I think you spend as much time with her as possible while stating clearly that after the divorce or if OM visits that you won't remain her friend and she won't see or speak to you anymore. Explain parallel parenting to her too...she has no idea that you two aren't going to be hanging out at every one of the kids activities together and/or that you might not even continue participating in the kids activities anymore especially if she insists on intruding upon your parenting time during such activities. For example...let's says there's a piano recital that is to take place on your custody day. If your wife insists on going...then the kids miss the recital. You don't have to spend time with an abuser "for the kids"....in fact, it's modeling appropriate behavior to your children what they need to do should they find themselves someday in an abusive relationship (which now being from a divorced family makes more likely).....they don't have to suffer for the good of everyone else. Victims of abuse feel trapped by the many family inter-connections and relationships that will forever be effected should they speak out against their abuser. There is significant pressure to just grin and bear it...or, as I've seen even on these boards, "be the bigger person"..... Instead, I say, "you matter". If your wife divorces you without cause and cheats on you with some old boyfriend for over 20 years...then you're substantially better off being as far away from that hurtful abusive person as possible physically and emotionally. You can forgive...but forgiveness doesn't require reconciliation and/or simple tolerance and, in the long run, your kids will be better off because of it. You will be healthier and a better parent being far away from your then ex-wife.
Hopefully it won't come to that....but your wife has been a wayward thinker for over two decades....change is going to be tough for her. It's been less than 6 months...keep trying. It'll be easier once she moves out....don't give up hope.
Georgia,
Step #1 won't work, she refused it before, and I just found out that OM is "visiting" and my WW met him this morning. God knows what they were doing together. She's been telling everyone that he's not even in the picture.
I am so upset. I need a "nuclear" button to push!
Checked with my L, in my lovely state it is not possible to contest garnishment if child support is involved. If there is spousal support in the order, they will garnish it too.
This is terrible.
It's not the money but having it processed through our HR department will be an embarrassment for me.
If she drags her feet finding a decent job that will eventually reduce your support and alimony maybe you'll find it easier to petition to allow you to relocate with the kids to another more favorable jurisdiction. Of course, that's not why you petition...instead you request the modification because of the wonderful job opportunity you found in the other state and if your ex-wifes job isn't great there's nothing majorly holding you to that state. I don't know what the rules for relocating are in your state so you might want to look into that. I know New York it's pretty much impossible to relocate but other states are much easier. The sooner you become aware and and start working the weighing factors in your favor the better.
For example, if you happened to live in California here is how the court weighs the "best interest of the children" factors in joint custody cases (if you have sole custody - you can almost always move with the kids):
At the hearing, the court will look at evidence related to the following factors:
1. The importance that the child maintain a stable and continuous environment, considering factors like how much time the child spends with each parent under the current arrangement, how long the current custody order has been in place, as well as the child’s ties to friends, school, and community activities and any special needs the child has
2. the distance of the move
3. the child’s age
4. the child’s relationship with both parents
5. the relationship between the parents, including how well they communicate with each other, whether they’re able to put their child’s interests ahead of their own, and how likely the moving parent is to accommodate contact between the child and the other parent
6. where the child wants to live, if they are of an age and maturity level to make an intelligent preference, as discussed above, and
7. the reasons for the move (while the moving parent does not have to show that the move is necessary, if there is evidence that the purpose of the move is just to disrupt the relationship between the child and the other parent, the court may factor this reason into the decision
I know it's a long shot but another advantage is you could have a smaller salary elsewhere and with the lower cost of living actually be making more ---- but then the alimony and child support would be calculated using your lower (but really equal ) pay and her higher California paycheck.
Your best bet is probably moving where your family lives and having them as additional support. That could help you with the factors. You should consider taking your kids there enough so that when the oldest is able to choose for themselves...they may WANT to relocate with you and that's another factor weighing in your favor. Your wife can either fight an uphill legal battle that she'll have to pay for (at that time she'll be your ex-wife and responsible for her own legal bills) or quit her stupid job making the least amount possible and pick up and move with you to where you are more comfortable (and in time - once jurisdiction is achieved - where you can then seek to modify the child support and alimony pursuant to that more favorable states standards).
It's a long shot....but if it's ever going to happen...you'll need to start planning and getting factors in your favor early.
Added bonus - it might also get your kids away from MIL....who is a bad influence now.
Georgia,
Step #1 won't work, she refused it before, and I just found out that OM is "visiting" and my WW met him this morning. God knows what they were doing together. She's been telling everyone that he's not even in the picture.
I am so upset. I need a "nuclear" button to push!
It would work if she did it.
No contact is Step #1 to recovery.
"Dropping Her" is step one to divorce.
You are still stuck in the middle.
Sorry to hear that OM's in town. What an incredibly hurtful thing to learn. You know what they are probably doing. I'd suggest you interfere with his visit and stand up to him but I know that is unlikely. She's probably using your money to pay for him to come visit.
Well...you have a choice now. Did she already move out? You've fought a good fight for about 6 months now so maybe now is the time, you're done and just too devastated to continue and don't care that it might make you slightly to significantly more likely to end up divorced...you just need away from her and the pain. If that's the case - send her an email now or in the next couple days telling her that although you love her and hoped to reconcile it's just too painful for you to continue in a relationship with her while she maintains any contact whatsoever with OM and if she ends it with him (no contact for life) and commits to a recovery program you may be wiling to consider reconciliation at that time; but until then, you no longer want to see or speak to her and all communication regarding the children shall from this day forward go through a neutral third party (her mother, a friend, etc).
There's a chance OM will be a huge disappointment. She hasn't seen him in nearly 30 years. He MAY just end up telling her she needs to figure out her marriage and he regrets his first divorce immensely. I doubt it...but you never know. It's completely impractical that they ever end up together so maybe this visit (once it's over) - combined with you going dark on her....will end up with her 2nd guessing her choices.
Again...don't go dark to manipulate. You do it to protect you and your sanity and to bottle up any remaining hope you have for your marriage until the day she decides to abide by your terms. If you do it...you MUST stand by your decision and not get wishy washy and start spending time again with her next week "co-parenting" the children. If there is any hope in it being effective...it has to be in stark contrast to the loving approach you had been taking and the complete removal of all the need meeting you were doing previously.
It's your life and your call.
Georgia,
The things you mentioned are at least 2-3 years down the line. I have a house here with only my name on the title. But because part of the mortgage was paid after we got married, my WW will claim part of the price appreciation during the marriage (it went up 4X). So I cannot sell the house until the D is final.
Also, it is virtually impossible to move out of state here, or even out of the area. The courts here will give preference for maintaining a stable environment for our S11. That is why my WW (and me through her) had to pay through the nose in order to rent an apartment in our very expensive area. If she were to live in another city outside the district, she will lose her claim to custody over S11.
Realistically, even if I get a great job at double my current salary in NYC, I will lose my 50% custody and become an absentee father.
The deck is definitely stacked against me.
Sandi,
Not sure if you agree with Georgia's recommendations, they are very much 180 from yours. I'm very much conflicted on how to proceed right now.
In reality it is very difficult for me to "drop her." My S11's baseball games are public so she's going to invite herself to the game no matter what. We can sit far apart from each other (I've seen other divorced couples do that) but we cannot avoid seeing each other. Also the custody arrangement that we have is that she will take him to his practices on my days when they are early. (Little League always schedule 4pm team practices three times a week!)
The one thing I can do is stop inviting her to meals and just take S11 by ourselves whenever I can. I guess it depends on which way I go with this...
Look, I was not telling you the steps to divorce her. I was telling you to drop her, as in dropping the rope. And yes, MWD does teach that when nothing else works, to drop it. What MWD
has done, is come on this board to say she does not support exposure........so why GB wants to pull that card with what I've said.......when he fiercely advises what is contrary to MWD.
I did not read all of GB posts and I am not going to battle with him. What good would it do you, or anyone? For the record, I agree with a lot of things he usually says, but we do have a difference of beliefs in what works and doesn't work with wayward wives. Mainly, b/c he advises methods of pursuit, and I don't agree with those methods. However, I don't make it my mission to post behind him and try to tell people he's wrong, etc., etc.
You asked for me to look at your thread and help you, b/c your WW was taking full advantage of having the best of both worlds. I believe you said something about how to turn things around to your advantage. I tell you to start with dropping her, and stop letting her cake eat by taking her out to dinner and driving her to the games, etc. Then, you immediately say you can't.
Look, I was not telling you to divorce her. I was telling you to drop her, as in dropping the rope. And yes, MWD does teach that when nothing else works, to drop it. What she
has done, is come on this board to say she does not encourage exposure........so why GB wants to pull that card with what I've said.......when he fiercely advises contrary to MWD, seems a little hypocritical, but whatever.
In reality it is very difficult for me to "drop her." My S11's baseball games are public so she's going to invite herself to the game no matter what. We can sit far apart from each other (I've seen other divorced couples do that) but we cannot avoid seeing each other. Also the custody arrangement that we have is that she will take him to his practices on my days when they are early. (Little League always schedule 4pm team practices three times a week!)
I told you to stop acting as if the two of you were a couple. Of course his games are public and you can't help but see her there. That is not what I told you. I told you to stop taking her to the games. Let her get there some other way, but you are not her escort.
You have to decide which way you want to go with this. It's your life.
CWOL,
this is really sounding like you need to look at the "as if". Treat your W as you would a neighbor across the street, or the checkout clerk. But nothing more.
I know when you're going to be seeing each other it's difficult, but would you be packing up strangers and taking them to lunch? Or just be courteous to them if you wind up having to communicate?
All I can put out there is what you've done isn't working. If you cannot DR, then you can't. But boy, if I were in your shoes I'd be giving it a heck of a try. It's one thing if there's difficulty between 2 spouses, but when an OP gets involved, things change dramatically. Either way, I wish to God I had found MWD 6-8 months ago. I looked, but I found the wrong sources. The ones that made sense. I can tell you - it didn't work.
I told you to stop acting as if the two of you were a couple. Of course his games are public and you can't help but see her there. That is not what I told you. I told you to stop taking her to the games. Let her get there some other way, but you are not her escort.
I get the distinction now, it's not going to be easy for sure.
All I can put out there is what you've done isn't working. If you cannot DR, then you can't. But boy, if I were in your shoes I'd be giving it a heck of a try. It's one thing if there's difficulty between 2 spouses, but when an OP gets involved, things change dramatically. Either way, I wish to God I had found MWD 6-8 months ago. I looked, but I found the wrong sources. The ones that made sense. I can tell you - it didn't work.
I think the "as if" will get much easier once she moves out, which is imminent now.
I'm still waking up 3-4 times every night. I usually have vivid dreams then when I wake up lying in bed trying to go back to sleep, I have a lot of dark thoughts and self-doubt.
How could she manipulate me for 18 years, at least 9 communicating with OM behind my back?
How could I have been such a fool to not look at her phone earlier in the marriage, when she had an EA already? I'm the one that set up her phone in the first place!
How can the laws be so screwed up as to punish the LBH by garnishing 1/2 his paycheck, when he's not the one to stray from his marriage contract?
How could she not understand how much she is hurting me, after all the things we've been through for 18 years?
I just want to scream, ahhh! I have a strong desire to punish her but there is nothing I can do. In fact, she seems to be relish her soon-to-be-freedom. With the D proceedings, almost every step of the way I am being lashed by the laws, whether it's calculating her support, garnishing my paychecks, etc.
I know the solution is to detach but it is so hard at 3 AM. So many irrational thoughts. My AD doesn't seem to help with these.
I awoke 4 times last night, and my WW slept like a baby.
Who said life was fair. You have fallen and you will continue to fall. But then one day, you will pick yourself up.
Everyone talks about "getting back onto the horse", and no-one really understands that you have to fall off it first.
If you can have hope for a better future, then you need to give up hope for today. It's still hope, just a change of focus.
I love that one signature about the fish that sang... Just keep swimming, just keep swimming.
DDJ,
I'm having trouble seeing a better future. Realistically, I see myself gored, with:
My WW sneering at me, carrying on with OM (I get a taste of this when I hear her talking to her mother or OM)
Half a paycheck (she'll even get half my bonuses or raises)
Half my assets gone
Paying off WW to keep the house I bought before I married her and 100% paid for by my income
Big chunk of money gone to legal fees
Mustering up confidence to date again at 47
Finding a woman I would want to date
Not seeing my son 1/2 the time
Not able to get the best for S11, whether it's private school later or college fund
The only positive I have left in life now is my S11. He does bring me joy every time I'm around him.
Can anyone help me get through these dark times? Am I missing something? I really don't see much future to look forward to.
Buddy, we're here for you. Rant away, you will always find understanding here. We've all been there...
Buddy, we're here for you. Rant away, you will always find understanding here. We've all been there...
Thanks man.
But I want to know, what is left but a wounded CWOL that will never be whole again? When friends and family tell me to get over it, all I can see is myself with my wings clipped, carrying a ball and chain called ex-wife. What is positive to look forward to?
A friend of mine who went through a divorce said he ate peanut butter sandwiches. Just peanut butter, no jelly, for 1 year after his divorce. In retrospect he wishes he would have done it sooner because all the money he spent was worth his happiness and peace of mind. When you let go and you will have to whether you like it or not, you will feel peace. After the initial pain, you will feel alive, you will see a world of opportunity. A chance to be the CWOL you were meant to be, the father you were meant to be. Life doesn't always work out the way you want, show your son how a man reacts when faced with adversity; with his head held high not taking sh!t from anyone.
You get to build the new you, the better you, the YOU that you aways wanted to become. Trust me, it is an awesome experience and you will learn sooooo much about yourself, and you will gain superpowers (I kid you not).
You will become much more in tune with people's feelings and yo will be able to "read" people to perfection.... I am 2 years post BD and I am not kidding when I say to you that if I got to choose between getting my wife back and loosing all these gifts and keeping my gifts, my gifts would stay no questions asked. I like myself a whole lot better nowadays...
Thanks Melo, but how/where would I find said happiness and peace of mind? When I look at my pay stub every two weeks and see half of it deducted by someone who fired me? I just realized that will put my take home pay back to what I was making around when I got married 18 years ago.
People tell me it gets better, but I'm coming up on six months now. It's steadily gotten worse, I'm more despondent by the day. The hurt does not go away, the wound has not healed, it just got deeper and deeper every time WW claws more things from me. I overheard her telling OM that her L told her, "If there are ten towels in the house, make sure you take five!" And she was laughing about that. Someone I took care and provided for for eighteen years is saying. Someone who never had to get out of her pajamas until 10 am to go to her cushy job for 4 hours, and who spends Fridays getting her nails and hair done and shopping at Nordstrom, because I enabled her to do that? Sure, after D is finalized the support will be a little less, but she can continue to do all those things with impunity.
Even for my career, where I have done very well, now I feel Communist about it. Why work hard when half of my bonus or raises goes to someone who discarded me?
I'm sorry, I just have been feeling terrible after hearing WW's conversation with OM. I guess this part of snooping is bad.
6 months is nothing... (alas) Just after 6 months that is slowly starts improving... You cannot put time stamp on it.
It is a long process...
Those 6 months were spent in limbo. They were terrible because they were spent trying to control someone that you have no control over. You will heal when you let it go. It could be another terrible 6 months if you choose for it to be so. She is taking the money and material things because the law is allowing her to. She thinks they will make her feel better, they will not. She is taking your happiness and peace of mind because you are allowing her to. You will find happiness and peace of mind by looking for them, but you haven't taken the time. You've been too busy snooping and trying to control. Time to focus on you. Do something nice for yourself, for those 18 years of supporting her, for the last 6 months of he11. Show yourself some love brother, you deserve it, you have been a great Dad and a great husband...too bad she can't see that. Her loss.
Thanks Melo, you are right.
I need to find my path out of this place of darkness.
CWOL, I always like to share this story about a guy I knew from work, his W left him for another man and filed for D. This was about 4 years ago. He was a mess, missed a lot of work, and a few suicide attempts under his belt.
NOW - that same guy is another person. Months of therapy and self help changed this guy into a scared, worried guy into someone with confidence and spirit. The last time I talked to him, he was dating an incredibly beautiful woman that always held his arm, and his ex-w was a very unhappy person trying desperately to win him back. Once he detached that emotional hose, which was very hard for him, he took off.
If he could do it, you can.
I need to find my path out of this place of darkness.
You said it brother! Now lets figure out how you are going to do that.
I set a goal today to do something to boost my confidence. I'm going to start taking a Krav Maga class. It's a 12 week course and my goal is to dedicate myself and be a BAD @$$. I also want to do something to get me out of my comfort zone, I am thinking taking a dance class (the last thing I would ever do). Hey, why not take yourself out of your comfort zone and challenge yourself.
What are your goals?
I'm planning to join a gym once we get through the move out.
I'm debating whether to go to a personal trainer or join some type of CrossFit program. Do you guys have any recommendations?
Also spend whatever time I have with S11 with his baseball training.
Personal trainer if you can afford one. Cross fit thingy is not bad either. The main thing is to get your ass in gear, one way or the other...
Stay strong buddy...
I was thinking of the gym too, but then after reading BluWave, I don't know if i'm doing it for me, or to try and get her back.
I do love driving though, so plan to take a long scenic drive around our coast tomorrow afternoon, stop somewhere, have lunch and enjoy the views. I need to find myself... find myself away from my WW.
Look buddy, physical excercise is good for you on sooooo many levels, do not preoccupy yourself if you are doing it for her or you. Just do it and STFU about contemplation...
Lol - ok i got it. I need to have more excuses to get out of the house and leave her at home to look after her son. Gotta focus on GAL! It will definitely help me sleep better.
Vapo is right. My W is a personal trainer and I could give a crap about any kind of workouts. Once I discovered her A, I started going to the gym FOR HER - trying to win her back. Once I got into a grove and we started going together, I realized I like going with or without her. Now I'm at a point where I actually prefer going without her because I like to work out at my own pace, whereas she's hardcore and wants to blow through exercises.
Just doing exercise helps you sleep, which helps you focus. My gym workouts are now at least 6x a week with one day of downtime. I will NOT miss one workout. The ironic thing is: Since I've been sticking to MY routine, my W has decided to up her level to try to compete with me. Funny how 9 weeks ago I could barely do a push up, now I can almost out run her. You have no idea what this does to my ego.
I see actual results. I've lost over 20 lbs, I've gained muscle, and I look hot. Don't talk about joining the gym. DO IT TODAY. That's what I did. I drove by the gym on the way home after finding out about the A, turned around, pulled in the lot, and signed up right on the spot. I worked out in my work clothes the first time, lol.
I'm planning to join a gym once we get through the move out.
I'm debating whether to go to a personal trainer or join some type of CrossFit program. Do you guys have any recommendations?
Also spend whatever time I have with S11 with his baseball training.
I work out by myself at home. Already have all the equipment i need. The only thing i want to start up again that i haven't yet is martial arts.
I used to work out at home too, had a full weight set. But I found that it was hard to motivate myself to do it consistently. Besides, the goal is to GAL and get out of the house, right?
Yes, but i use music to motivate me. Also the reason for me wanting to get back into martial arts.
I used to work out at home too, had a full weight set. But I found that it was hard to motivate myself to do it consistently. Besides, the goal is to GAL and get out of the house, right?
YES x infinity. I found being home made me more depressed. Getting out gets you into a group setting. Group settings - you watch what other guys are doing and learn from them. I could honestly stay at the gym 5-6 hours now if I had the time. You'll eventually build friendships - I'm not at that point yet, but I do address the help by first names and since I'm a regular, they know my name. Eventually I'd like to join a workout group and start running with them.
Ugh, woke up 4 times last night. I guess it's the stress and anxiety from WW's impending move out. Hate when that happens, especially on a weekend.
Was looking at the cupboard today, noticed many of our plates missing. I guess WW is making good on her L's advice to make sure to take 1/2 of everything. She took a statue and a painting her parents gave us for our wedding gift too. It's interesting that she did that because in the first filing she requested to have the painting. Now she just took it! Thinking about how I should approach these things... The painting may be fairly valuable, not sure if I want the L to get involved in it right now.
Been reading through the threads of many veterans on the board. There are a lot of similar stories with heartbreaking details and endings. Not sure if it's encouraging or discouraging me at this point, but I admire the resilience of those who went through the same nightmare.
CWOL, this is what will be happening to me next Wednesday. The 2 L's get together in court, and hammer out division/liquidation of everything. I don't think there's going to be any "parting out" of things - it just gets liquidated.
It's horrible to think about after putting it all together for so long. I basically left with as many clothes as I could gather. The insane WW said I left with all these things that basically don't exist.
as far as dividing your stuff, make sure you get photos if you can, of anything you think she might grab. Anything acquired between you two should be split, even if it needs to be sold, or if you're amicable for her to pay you half of the worth. However, it should all remain in the home until a Judge looks things over - don't know what state you're in - is it no fault 50/50?
Ugh, the W just sent me an email. Scared to see what's in it. I'll check back later.
Yes, I'm in a no-fault 50/50 state just like you. I don't know if I want to confront her right now or just have my L do it. It's strange that she will take the painting especially after explicitly asking for it in the filing. Wouldn't I notice it's missing? I do have pictures of most of our assets and furniture, I didn't think she was going to take something that she filed with the court as a request outright like that.
Our settlement is going to be a little more complicated because I bought the house three years before I married her. I paid all the mortgages out of my separate accounts until a year after we got married. At that time we merged all of our assets because one of the things she claimed distanced us in her first EA was that we didn't "feel" like a true team having separate accounts. So at that time, I agreed although I kept my house separate through all these years.
The end result is that the mortgage was paid out of our joint account which I could have paid by myself. However, now because of the joining of the assets, she is entitled to a percentage of the principal payments and the appreciation of the house during this time. So I will need to pay her off in the final settlement.
Moral of the story: I should have kept our finances separate and put into the joint account only what is necessary.
Moral of the story: I should have kept our finances separate and put into the joint account only what is necessary.
Amen brother. I was a completely trusting fool, and put my W on everything. So I've had to hire a forensic accountant to show that I've got some things completely separate.
The W mentioned in our little back-and-forth today that I was out to ruin her financially. If she
really believes that, she's still pretty far out there. But I am going to protect myself, and get what I'm legally entitled to. She's the one that got the L, not me.
I think one of the biggest blows I had in all this was to find out the W had gotten a separate bank account and was funneling money there while I was scrimping and saving and juggling accounts.
Yeah, "team". "We". All that goes right down the toilet when your WW goes AWOL doesn't it? Just words.
At least you've got a larger chunk of the house, and might be able to work things out without liquidating. Fingers crossed.
I was just doing the dishes and I noticed half of my flatware set is missing. Is this what it will come down to?
I've kept our finances very solid and in order. So solid, in fact, we have 0 debt and 0 mortgage. So, no, there won't be liquidation, but it won't hurt me any less.
Her approach to this whole thing is really pi$$ing me off. I wouldn't say she's out to "ruin" me financially, but she and her L is trying to scrimp every last penny from me. She may be able to do that legally, but I wonder if she thought about what she is doing morally? Sure she contributed to the family for 18 years, but does that mean she will claw every last penny that she can from me, now and in the future?
Obviously, she doesn't think her contact with OM is "wrong" even if anyone viewing the evidence thinks otherwise. As you say, WW's have no guilty conscience. She's rewriting history and making up my deficiencies constantly to her mother and relatives, the few Enablers that she still talks to. Whenever that comes up, I just ask them why was she emailing OM nine years ago then? Doesn't jive with any of her timeline.
This is the part of my situation that I hate, that she can use the law to punish me and get away with it. I hope karma will intervene soon.
CWOL,
@&#*! WW's.
My WW accused me of absconding all kinds of things that I didn't take or don't even exist. I could have played this exact same game, but didn't. Morals, honesty. She's living in the house with all the luxuries we surrounded ourselves with. Heck, my friend even takes care of the pool for her.
No, timelines are for the birds. Chronological order? What's that? History? That's for her to write and for you to be subjected to. It's crazy, it doesn't make sense. I guess it really is some sort of twisted survival technique.
I can say that my WW had no problem changing the locks, perhaps you should do the same. In your case with no payments (congrats!), there is still going to be worked out what you owe her since half the value gained during your marriage is hers.
Karma will not necessarily intervene - but it's hanging around, trust me.
Your L will let you know how much you can expect to lose. Unfortunately in these no fault 50/50 states, the guy is toast. The WW gets to live like a queen, because S11.
Yes, I am toast.
But it's not because of S11, I actually share 50/50 custody. It's the damn alimony (spousal support). I'm getting screwed over there. WW has no trouble taking the $, after all, it's the law. Never mind how we got here in the first place.
She is going to continue running over you like a bulldozer, as long as you continue to take it.
She is going to continue running over you like a bulldozer, as long as you continue to take it.
I don't see anything I can really do on the legal aspects of it. It's the laws of this state that gives so much "protection" to WW's. I've tried to fight it as much as I can but we've just been incurring unnecessary legal bills.
Question I have on detaching, even through D and eventually co-parenting:
How would I do that? The thing that has really gotten me down on has been the D proceedings. It really shows the ugly side of my WW, and her greed and lack of remorse. How do I detach myself from these feelings when I get waves and waves of them thrown at me, every time I have to read one of their briefs? Their RFO's are always full of accusations that are untrue or amplified to make me look back. And we have a relatively simple case too... I suppose it will get easier when she moves out, but it is so hard for me to see.
Also, suppose our D is finalized. I still have to see her twice a week. Some people have suggested that I let S11 walk from her car to my door, or drop him off to walk to her apartment. I don't think it's realistic when we have S11 intertwining our lives forever, whether it's school, piano recitals, etc.
Exactly what feelings are you trying to detach from?
The D is showing what a terrible person your W has become. Okay, so what kind of feelings do you have about her greed and lack of remorse? Are you obsessed with it? If so, it is controlling your life at the moment.
How do I detach myself from these feelings when I get waves and waves of them thrown at me, every time I have to read one of their briefs? T
Wave of them thrown at you. By "them", I assume you mean
feelings? Nobody can force feelings on you. Only one person has charge of how you will feel. That power belongs to YOU, and only you. So when you say how can I detach when I am getting them thrown at me............you are sounding as if you have no options, and all these feelings are forced down your throat.
Their RFO's are always full of accusations that are untrue or amplified to make me look back.
Well YOU know the accusations are false, right? Is there anything you can do about her false accusations? You have a lawyer to handle the legalities. If there is nothing to gain or there is nothing you can do to change it......let it go and stop allowing it to have power over you. But don't hang your head and cry as though you are a whipped dog. Handle yourself with dignity and know that you did not sell out your integrity. You know the truth, and in time, so will the people that really matter the most.
Also, suppose our D is finalized. I still have to see her twice a week. Some people have suggested that I let S11 walk from her car to my door, or drop him off to walk to her apartment. I don't think it's realistic when we have S11 intertwining our lives forever, whether it's school, piano recitals, etc.
That is b/c you don't want to see it any other way. It
can be done, b/c I see it being done every single day by people around me. But even if you do see her twice a week, what does that have to with you detaching? Hey, it's easy when we are never around anyone or anything that bother us. However, we better know how to apply it, b/c sooner or later it happens, and we will be challenged about how we choose to handle it.
Go back and carefully read about what Cadet sent you about detaching. I think you may recognize yourself.
Very good points, Sandi! This 2X4 got to me.
I went back and read Cadet's links and I do recognize myself in it. I need help getting out of that mentality, however. I am taking everything thrown at me and internalizing it. I saw this whenever I read the briefs, talk to WW, etc. I take exactly what they write/say at face value, and feel it's a direct attack on ME. Even if I know what they are about to say, I still react with anger and emotions when I hear/read it.
It is easy to identify the problem, but how do I fix myself? It's good there are so many examples for Detachment, but I think I am far too emotional right now to be able to Detach effectively. Before all of this happened, I was a calm and collected person. Now I am an emotional mess.
How do I learn to detach effectively? I read the words on the post and they make sense to me. How do I force myself to not get angry and emotional with every challenge or trigger? Just by saying "I will detach and not let X get to me" and establishing a boundary for it doesn't guarantee that will happen.
Right there with you, CWOL. Detaching is much easier said than done. Heck, there are days, maybe even a week or two, that I am right as rain, but then there are times when it really gets to me. Now happens to be one of those times. Getting this stuff all together for the D has been really tough on me and the bad thing is that I don't know how to suppress it. When the kids are home i have no problem, it's the night time that is the worst...
Sandi,
I guess what I'm saying is, how do I make myself not get bothered by these things, and let them fall off me? How do I apply myself so I don't obsess over things I cannot control?
It sounds very simple and easy but it is so hard to do in real life, isn't it?
Right there with you, CWOL. Detaching is much easier said than done. Heck, there are days, maybe even a week or two, that I am right as rain, but then there are times when it really gets to me. Now happens to be one of those times. Getting this stuff all together for the D has been really tough on me and the bad thing is that I don't know how to suppress it. When the kids are home i have no problem, it's the night time that is the worst...
Exactly. I have the same problems at night, and even at work. This is why my sleep has been terrible these last few days. As my WW plans to move out, I am obsessing over that fact and about people's actions I have no control over. When I wake up at night, I have terrible, terrible thoughts. I don't know how to unwind myself from these things. I just get very angry about the matter and my mind becomes an echo chamber of "how could you" repeated over and over again to my WW.
Just preoccupy your mind with something else. Physical exercise does wonders, hiking in nature being the tops. If you live in a big city, getting out in nature might not be an option, but there are gyms everywhere and signing up is the way to go. Endorphine release is the name of the game...
What worked for me was hiking in the hills where I was able so scream and not be institutionalized.
You have to get your anger out, you have to battle your depression, you have to fix you, the pieces of you into a new you, a better you, it is the perfect opportunity... Learn about stages of grieving, recognize where you are at, do not deny it...
Being where you are now [censored], but it is also a golden opportunity. One thing I can promise is that it does get better, it just takes time and working on yourself. Time to do some self reflection, embrace your faults and love yourself. Get out, get in shape, buy some new clothes, change a lifestyle (and no, do not get a red corvette, 3 pounds of gold chains and wear unbuttoned shirts...
Hi OWOL, I hope it's ok to post , GAL is good for moving your focus from your sitch , hobbies and mindfulness help and acceptance of what is. You can't change W and accepting that can really move you forward. The pain of this will subside with time but getting yourself a busy life full of tithings that you enjoy will help that passing of time greatly
Just my humble opinion Take care. Rd
CWOL,
I know exactly where your coming from brother. Detaching is easier said than done. It just takes time. This whole process takes time. It works a little different for all of us some quicker than others. I have found that keeping myself busy really helps, or at night when on down time i just try to replace those thoughts with positive ones. My D will be final in aug., and she is in a relationship with 2nd OM so yeah it's tough. Hang in there brother. We are all here for ya.
My IC and I talked about this at my last session. She recommended mindfulness techniques as a way of dealing with the panic and fear. Just focus on what I am feeling physically, seeing, hearing, on my breath.
It seemed to help last night.
CWOL
Wanted to thank you for checking in on my thread and the support. I don't have much advice to add that has not already been shared with you, but know I feel your pain as I struggle with the same challenges you mention. V says it's like a washing machine where the clothes get tangled up. Check my thread for a better description.
Anyway hang in there, I am pulling for you and want to lend my support as well as let you know that you are in my prayers.
Do something good for yourself today and force a smile even if you don't feel like it as it does help.
And hug your son, that contact and the love you have for him can provide some strength.
[quote][I guess what I'm saying is, how do I make myself not get bothered by these things, and let them fall off me? How do I apply myself so I don't obsess over things I cannot control?
It sounds very simple and easy but it is so hard to do in real life, isn't it?
/quote]
That is the question of the century. This is by far the most painful, stressful, and whatever else you want to call it time.
Trying not to think of things has the opposite effect, at least it does for me, anyway. When someone was the major part of your life - and especially if you were betrayed - it's going to sit on you like a ton of bricks for a long, long time. I thought this time while my W was at the new base would make it easier, but that's also had the opposite affect.
By far the hardest thing I've ever gone through. And it doesn't get easier. Ugh.
Thanks Jeep, Vapo, rd500,GWH, Rose888, and SadHub for your support. You are right, this is by far the hardest thing I've ever gone through, bar none.
Do you think I should still ask WW about her meeting OM last week? And tell her my boundaries on it, i.e. that reconciliation is only possible if she has NC with OM, and that PA would be a deal breaker? Or at this point, should I just leave it alone since we're two months into the D cycle (takes minimum of 6 months to complete in my state).
Trying not to think of things has the opposite effect, at least it does for me, anyway. When someone was the major part of your life - and especially if you were betrayed - it's going to sit on you like a ton of bricks for a long, long time. I thought this time while my W was at the new base would make it easier, but that's also had the opposite affect.
Thinking of something else, i.e. work, does take the stress off of me temporarily. However, it comes back with any trigger, as our family items are all around me.
I need to take the GAL advice and start a disciplined gym regime. So far I've been doing brisk walks during breaks at work, and practicing baseball with S11's team a couple times a week. Because we are going on the 2-2-3 custody schedule, it will take some planning to make sure my gym/personal trainer schedule matches S11's schedule.
WW told me she will move out this Saturday.
Did she recommit to you? What assurances did she give?
Did she recommit to you? What assurances did she give?
No, she has not. I guess I should just leave it alone, it'll just piss her off since she probably believes we are no longer "married" after she filed for D.
CWOL,
I'm sorry about all of the stuff that's going on with your wife. I think my wife is quickly approaching move out day. I dread that, but I'm fairly certain it's going to happen.
I hope you're taking care of yourself mentally and physically.
I was just talking to my boss about some of this divorce stuff. He went though a divorce a while back (she's back with him now). He said, "You just have to view it like a blip in the road. Things will be a lot better a year or two later." That's easier said than done, but it was nice to have someone to talk to.
Why would you ask her about meeting with the OM? Do you think she will tell you the truth?
Why would you ask her about meeting with the OM? Do you think she will tell you the truth?
No, I was not rational in thinking that if she knew I knew, she would stop. I'm sure she won't, she'll lie again and do it behind everyone's back. Her mom is disgusted by OM so I'm sure she won't tell her either.
I hope you're taking care of yourself mentally and physically.
I was just talking to my boss about some of this divorce stuff. He went though a divorce a while back (she's back with him now). He said, "You just have to view it like a blip in the road. Things will be a lot better a year or two later." That's easier said than done, but it was nice to have someone to talk to.
I'm physically fine, actually in better shape than I've been in a while (lost 20 pounds because of stress). It's the mental stuff that's messing me up right now.
Yes, sometimes it's good to talk to people. But I've already talked to everyone I could about it, and they get tired of the story... Even the friends that are well meaning I can tell avoid talking about it to me. In the beginning they would ping me with concerns every few days. But now, five months down the road people are tired of it.
Also, when I went to DivorceCare I told the story it felt good to get it off my chest. But lately the more I repeat the story, I feel hurt, especially when I tell it verbally. I read in one of the DivorceCare newsletters to write a brief version of the story so I don't have to repeat it several times a week, hurting myself each time.
Have you tried googling about "steps to emotional detaching"? Some places have a lot of explanations of what detaching is and why it is important, but there are a few that give you steps. I think that is what you were seeking.
As an outsider, I see a lot of anger and frustration over the things you want to control and can't. It acts as a hook that pulls at you.
As unfair as all of this has been for you, I think you are going to have to accept the things you can't change or control. It doesn't mean you have to love it, but it is what it is and you can get mad enough to have a heart attack and it won't solve anything for you. I know, it's easy for this ole former WW to say, and much harder to actually do it.
I would hate to see you live the rest of your life in bitterness and hatred over something that your W has done to you. I've seen a lot of people do that very thing, b/c they would not go of it. Don't let her rob your peace and happiness. Let her go. Let go of this mess and stop trying to force her to do what you want.
She is moving out Saturday, and she is in the process of divorcing you. Why are you still trying to control her contacting OM? You can tell her you have a "boundary", but what the heck does she care if it crosses your boundary? What are you going to do if she contacts OM? At this point, what could you possibly give as a consequence for her not honoring your boundary that would matter to her? Let go of the control!
I would hate to see you live the rest of your life in bitterness and hatred over something that your W has done to you. I've seen a lot of people do that very thing, b/c they would not go of it. Don't let her rob your peace and happiness. Let her go. Let go of this mess and stop trying to force her to do what you want.
Sandi,
You are absolutely right, I'm trying to figure out how to get rid of this bitterness and hatred. I googled the various lists on the web, whether it's 7 or 10, I'm only doing a half*ssed job on them. Particularly when I wake up in the middle of the night with those thoughts racing through my brain. Need to get myself to do the rest of them fully.
The question about OM was one of those 4 AM irrational thoughts, as if my WW still cares. I really need to detach from her emotionally, which is one of the steps. Easier said than done.
It seems like many of the people I've talked to who've been through D have the same bitterness and anger in them. That is, when you really talk to them and find out what is beneath their peaceful exterior. For example, at the DC group, even several years after the D is settled. One woman has been trying to D for three years, and is totally bitter about the experience. Her H just keeps throwing money to the L's to keep the D alive, I guess. I'm very afraid I'll turn out to be one of them, given my personality. This process brings out the worst side of me on control and obsession.
CWOL,
I too have bitterness and resentment towards WW. It stems from her actions though and the example that will be set with my small boys if I allow her to have custody.
I also wake up with those dreams, maybe once per week, they will pass. I have minimal contact with her and when I do see her during the exchange with the boys, I question how I ever loved her? Physically she is attractive but morally I am disgusted with her. She went out with OM while she had boys this weekend and they knew she was going out with a "friend". They are too young to understand how that makes me feel and I don't want to radiate my bitterness on to them.
Keep focusing on you!
Jim,
Part of it is because WW stayed under the same roof with me for the past five months after D-Day. At first I was trying another tactic of "nicing" her (from a different forum), and I thought that pushing out her move-out date would give me the best chance to R with her. It didn't, and really wore me down psychologically.
That's probably why I have these nightmares every night while you only get them once a week! :-)
I need to focus on myself.
CWOL,
I know that I wish I could have had my WAW leave sooner after the BD. I know this looking back now, while initially I wanted her to stay.
I share this with you as many told me that it was very toxic while she was under the same roof due to her bitterness and anger. They told me once she moved out that I could begin the healing process. I now know they were right as while I still struggle the past week and a half it has been better than the last 3 months.
There are more moments of peace that add up to help through the difficult moments. I am still having my struggles but I am seeing the triggers and time frames that I can brace for. I can also see what triggers and time frames that I look forward to to feel good.
Mornings are the worst for me, but I am finding things to shorten the pain. Time with my baby girls is the best for me as no matter what we do I feel like I am cloud 9.
Stay focused in the moment. When it's a challenge accept it and let it pass. (See Phoebe's thread) when it's a happy moment, focus on it and enjoy it to the fullest. Try to avoid thinking backwards, that creates depression. Avoid thinking to the future, that creates anxiety. Focus on the moment and the actions and thoughts that can move you forward.
Sorry for the ramble, but these are things that I am learning and working to apply. Not easy. Not instinctive. But I know it is neccasary to heal, grow stronger, and progress to a new beginning. Also it will help you be the best father possible for your s.
Hang in there, you have support here and first hand advice and feedback for you.
Thanks SadHub. Mornings are the worst for me as well, especially after a sleepless night.
From what everyone described, I do think after she moves out it will help me mentally to start working on myself. Which is why before she even filed the D, my L suggested I give her $5K to move out. But she ended up staying another 3 months as her L tried to extract more from the support payments. Ugh.
The things I dread next on the timeline are:
1. When HR receives my garnishment notice and come ask me about it. Will be pretty embarrassing, as I have not told anyone at work about the D. I will have to accept it and work through it, I guess.
2. Next round of scheming by her L's. I dread the chime on my phone when my L emails me stuff. It's never good news!
3. Final division of assets. This will be very painful. I'll have to accept it. Probably a lot more L fees as we fight back and forth and forensic accountant fees.
4. Reaction of S11 to physical separation. He is a sensitive child and I'm sure will affect him greatly. My WW is telling herself the "resilient" myth but it will be tough on him. As my coach told to me, divorce for kids is like war for soldiers. You do the best you can and hope you survive it, since you have no choice in the matter!
Do not be afraid or embarassed. I know you feel sort of demasculinated/replaced by OM, but it really is not your fault. Hold your head up high. It's not how hard you can hit, it's how hard you can get hit... (ROCKY)
I try to imagine as best that I can, and I know that without going through the experience nobody really knows just how hard it is to let it go of the betrayal, deception and rejection.......not to mention all the unfairness that goes down in a divorce. I'm certain it would be a work in progress, if it were me. I hope it can start for you when she gets out f the house and the D is settled.
CWOL,
yeah I hate the cringe inducing mail/text tone from the WW. All of a sudden I'm getting them - I never should have mailed that letter. Lack of sleep and a brain fog that never seems to go away seem to be part of this thing too. I think last night is the first time I got over 6 hours almost all at once. Probably having the dog helped - I hand her back tonight.
It's a shame kids always have to take the brunt of this, S11 is blessed to have you creating a stable force around him. At 11, he's pretty vulnerable, and will need to know he's not the cause of what's going on.
It's amazing how much abuse the WW can pile on in addition to what they've already done. The selfishness is off the charts. A 2 year old in a 50 year old body wouldn't be as bad.
Keep plugging, you've got a good reason to!
I try to imagine as best that I can, and I know that without going through the experience nobody really knows just how hard it is to let it go of the betrayal, deception and rejection.......not to mention all the unfairness that goes down in a divorce. I'm certain it would be a work in progress, if it were me. I hope it can start for you when she gets out f the house and the D is settled.
Sandi,
It is so true when they say the betrayal is probably the worst thing you can experience in life. If I weren't in this situation and a friend is instead, I probably would have callously told him, "Suck it up and be a man, just get over her!" But being my ox that's getting gored, it is very different.
I look back just half a year ago, I felt on top of the world. My work was going great, people were envious how wonderful our family was since we were always together, and we were planning our next tropical vacation. Now I'm trying to mend the pieces of a shattered marriage.
This forum has been very comforting to me. Reading words of support from you guys drove away the dark demons that plague my mind every morning. I have to focus on S11 and make sure I am doing my best for him.
This forum has been very comforting to me. Reading words of support from you guys drove away the dark demons that plague my mind every morning. I have to focus on S11 and make sure I am doing my best for him.
CWOL,
Both of these are things you will want to keep at the forefront of your thoughts each morning when you feel lost in the fog and depression. Your s will be key. I speak from my experience, that after WAW moved out, the following day was the darkest day I have ever experienced. I imagine it is the same as shock for those that have had a traumatic experience. I was not sure I could make it through, but when I knew I had to go pick up my girls from school, I found the strength to do so. That night being with them was the happiest night I have had in recent memory. And we just did homework, ate dinner, danced, and read some stories together.
Focus on your s. He benefits and he will be the beacon that you must focus on to come through the fog.
This forum is full of support and great advice. When you feel desperate or hopeless, the folks here know first hand what you are going through and will share ideas and provide support.
Do this and you will get through it. It won't be easy, but you will get through.
My prayers are for you and your s. May you have some peace this night and may you stay focused on the things that you can control. Live in the moment. It will minimize the pain to one moment. Live in the moment and you will more fully recognize and enjoy the happiness that you feel in that moment.
You got this.
Thanks SadHub, I tried a meditation audio track to help me sleep after I woke up at 1am this morning. It kinda worked but I was up again at 4am. Tried to focus on breathing and to chase away the racing thoughts.
I have a practical question to the forum as WW is planning to make her final move out Saturday. Up to now, I've only told a small circle of friends and family about our problems. With her imminent move, how do you suggest I tell people if they ask? Just "we've separated, going through some tough times" or "she filed for divorce after I caught her having an emotional affair for the past 9 years?" How much information should I offer, if any? These are not close friends but acquaintances from S11's school or baseball teams.
We're currently separated.... PERIOD IMHO