Hello, I came from another board and would like to have some input into my situation.
My wife and I have been married for 18 years in what I (and our friends) thought was a happy and stable marriage. We have an 11 year old son that we spend most of our free time and energy on. We are financially secure and I earn about 95% of the income while she holds a part-time job for 15 hours a week.
Seventeen years ago, or six months after our marriage, she had an Emotional Affair (as best as I could determine) with her ex-boyfriend who lives on another continent. I stumbled onto dozens of mostly flirtatious emails to each other and I believe they only met once for lunch. After seeing a marriage counselor and reconciling, we recommitted to our marriage and I vowed to be more emotionally supportive and she vowed to stop communicated with the OM. We waited six more years to have our boy, after I established the relationship was going to last and that we were happy together, which I believed we were.
Fast forward to November 2015: An argument aroused my suspicions again. I discovered that she has been corresponding with the OM again. In fact, I looked in her phone and found that it goes back for at least 9 years! None of the emails were explicitly sexual but there was a lot of innuendo, and that he wanted to hold her “until she’s 90” and that they cared for each other. There were several selfies headshots sent by both parties. The OM had just had his second divorce in March this year and she was complaining to him about me. It looks like they may have only physically met once for lunch a year ago. However, she was planning her separation from me and he was supportive and planning a visit later with her. He promised her his support and for her to be brave.
I confronted her without showing the actual email evidence, and asked her why the betrayal of her promise to me!?! Of course, she denied there was any affair since the OM is so geographically far from us. She gave the standard lines, that we had grown apart over 18 years, especially the past year, and that I’ve been cold and distant and would never change, the standard ILYBIDLYAM speech. She demanded that we separate. Naturally, I stupidly started groveling and asking for forgiveness and said I would change my ways. Of course these were all rejected.
I went to my Mother-in-Law and showed her the emails. She was ashamed of her daughter and pushed her back to me, and wanted us to reconcile, knowing what happened 17 years ago. However, about a month after I told MIL, my WW was able to flip her. She secretly funded her $6K for a divorce attorney and then gave her funds to move out and get an apartment. During this time WW was pretending to work on our marriage with me, and I was trying to be a better husband. However, I sensed something wasn't right and went through her stuff and found the legal retainer.
Now she is about to move out and split my son's custody 50/50. I am reading the advice on this board which encourages Detachment rather than Engagement. What advice would you give to me? It seems like a lot of the Detachment were unsuccessful in getting their marriage back on track. But that may just come with the territory?
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
I cannot tell you that detachment works. If I could I guess I would no longer be on this board. And you have the same questions I do. I can tell you this though from my brief experience, when I wrote letters, talked of counseling, moved back in, confronted the affair, told my WW how much I loved her and how beautiful she is, all that happened was she progressively got more more angry. To the point she was screaming at me and telling me how bad she wants to hurt me... to the point I offered to let her hit me to get it out.
Since I have detached (and I am not great at it) she has softened. Occasionally, she will text or call. Some of those conversations will be rather good (speaking from a perspective of a H with a WW). So I cannot say whether it works or does not in the long run all I can say is what I have noticed.
Welcome CWOL.
First things first, do your homework that Cadet sent you. It's critical.
Second, this isn't going to resolve itself quickly. It's going to take a long time. I know that's not what you want to hear but I'm going to shoot straight with you. Fasten your seatbelt.
Your situation is not hopeless. Many people have come back from the brink of divorce, some even remarried after divorce.
Most important, you need to stay CALM. You will feel fear and despair that you never knew possible. This is normal.
You are among an awesome group of people that are or have experienced the exact same thing you are. I consider most of them family.
Come here and post often, we will offer our best advice and listen to you vent. If you feel you are going to react or say something to your W, come here first before you do anything. We will talk you off the ledge and help prevent anymore damage.
Your W is NOT the girl you married at the moment. She's having an affair and is in fantasy land. Consider her an addict looking for her next fix. She will do and say things you didnt know were possible.
Take care of you. Get in the gym, meditate, run, read, pray. You're going to need it.
Lastly, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Hang in there.
Hi CWOL. I'm so sorry that this is happening to you.
I'm fairly new here myself, but the one thing I have learned for myself is that it is best to look at our own behavior through the eyes of an outsider.
Aim to be the kind of person you will admire and respect as you live your own life and especially during every interaction with your wife. She probably won't return the favor, but you will sleep better knowing you were the adult in the room.
Beyond that, I will agree with Thornton - Cadet's welcome is full of important information. Hang in there and remember to breathe.
Thanks guys. I will order the books and start reading.
I've been following the advice of another website, and read several of the marriage advice books, but a lot of the concepts are the same. The worst part was I was doing all of the recommended steps about being a better husband, etc., but I could sense no change in WW's hostility. That's when I started to dig deeper and found all the deceit and gaslighting she was doing behind my back. The most disappointing part was she was able to turn people who were initially supporting our marriage to supporting her divorce.
She has filed and I've been served last week. She is still in the house but is about to move out. I am conflicted whether to detach or to continue to try to be a good husband (even though she stopped being a good wife long ago).
Part of me really like the Detachment recommendation, but another part of me feel that WW would be more drawn if I were helpful, even during the divorce process. I'm sure this faces everyone who comes here. I am just so sick of the lying and deceit, and the rewriting of history that has been occurring since D-Day. It [censored] that the one who cheated and was unfaithful has so much power over the innocent spouse. I admit, I definitely fall into the bucket Sandi wrote about.
I cannot tell you that detachment works. If I could I guess I would no longer be on this board. And you have the same questions I do. I can tell you this though from my brief experience, when I wrote letters, talked of counseling, moved back in, confronted the affair, told my WW how much I loved her and how beautiful she is, all that happened was she progressively got more more angry. To the point she was screaming at me and telling me how bad she wants to hurt me... to the point I offered to let her hit me to get it out.
Since I have detached (and I am not great at it) she has softened. Occasionally, she will text or call. Some of those conversations will be rather good (speaking from a perspective of a H with a WW). So I cannot say whether it works or does not in the long run all I can say is what I have noticed.
I have a similar experience. My WW was playing along in the reconciliation forced by my MIL until I found out about her secret plot. When I tried very hard to be a good husband, she was instead upset at me. She said everything I was doing was "fake" and it reminded me of what I didn't do in our marriage.
When I pulled back and not pay attention to her for some time, it does seem to bring curiosity out of her. It is interesting because Detachment is diametrically opposite the intuitive advice I got elsewhere.
Is the DR book not available electronically? I tried to buy it that way but can only find non Kindle editions
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
I do not believe it is available electronically,
you can start the first chapter in my first post.
CWOL a lot of people here in such a similar scenario. Thornton gave some great words of wisdom there! A lot of people will not post, but they do read your posts. Just know that we are listening and can certainly relate to what you're going through. You are not alone.
Hi cwol
What did you mean by detachment vs engagement? In what ways was engagement recommended?
Hi cwol
What did you mean by detachment vs engagement? In what ways was engagement recommended?
Advice I received elsewhere was to engage WW, even after she leaves. Not to be a doormat, but to be a strong husband and father. If she needs help with her computer, go over to her apartment and fix it. If her car breaks down, go and help her out. Being positive and try to show her that I'm a good provider and husband, etc.
I've been doing this after D-Day but it hasn't gotten me anywhere. She's totally fogged out by her 18 year long affair so I am thinking about adopting Detachment as recommended here.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
I do not believe it is available electronically,
you can start the first chapter in my first post.
Got it, ordered a hard copy via Amazon.
Do what works!
I know it seems counter intuitive, but Detaching really does work, Especially with a WW.
Everyone here always thinks the their sitch is somehow different from all the others; I know I did. I found out rather quickly that it was EXACTLY the same...
Work on you, develop the relationship with your son, and become a man only a fool would leave.
I know you don't want to believe that this could possibly work, but you just need to remember to put the focus on you; that's what detaching is for.
If you focus on yourself and your son, then whatever happens with WW you know that you will be okay.
there is so much great info on this board. Sandi2 has amazing insight into the mindset of the WW. read job's thread in MLC on detachment and toxic relationships...
Remember YOU don't deserve to be treated like this, but YOU also can't control HER actions. You can only decide how you will react to them...
Find that inner strength and strap in for a long, rough ride... if you take the advice here, you'll come out of it a better, stronger man regardless of the marital outcome, I promise!
Wow, similar in many ways to my dilemma. Although not the same person, my W has been a serial offender. Her denial was that she didn't consider an EA the same as a PA, so it wasn't really an A at all. Of course, that changed - and she considered herself free and clear the second she filed and started her PA in earnest. Although it really had already started she can at least say she's legally separated so it's morally ok.
You've got the advantage of still being in contact with her. I've been completely cut out - no communication except to beg to get into the house.
There seems to be some disagreement here as to how much you do actually engage. Since I acted as the IT person for my W and her assistant, I was helping with their problems after the split. But the weird passive-aggressive assistant made me crazy. So, I suppose I'll help, but I'm not sure my W would ever even know. The only stuff that the assistant conveys to her is the bad, and none of the good.
Wow, similar in many ways to my dilemma. Although not the same person, my W has been a serial offender. Her denial was that she didn't consider an EA the same as a PA, so it wasn't really an A at all. Of course, that changed - and she considered herself free and clear the second she filed and started her PA in earnest. Although it really had already started she can at least say she's legally separated so it's morally ok.
You've got the advantage of still being in contact with her. I've been completely cut out - no communication except to beg to get into the house.
There seems to be some disagreement here as to how much you do actually engage. Since I acted as the IT person for my W and her assistant, I was helping with their problems after the split. But the weird passive-aggressive assistant made me crazy. So, I suppose I'll help, but I'm not sure my W would ever even know. The only stuff that the assistant conveys to her is the bad, and none of the good.
My WW had the first EA seven months after we got married. She was sneaking out to Kinkos to email the OM. I found out by accident when I was looking out my browser.
Looking at the email they restarted at least 9 years ago. There were only sporadic emails on birthdays, etc. but obviously the emotion attachment was there (and thus detaching from ME). The latest flare up is after OM went through his SECOND divorce. There were 211 emails between them from October to November, when I caught her.
The advantage I have is the OM lives on another continent half a day away. I heard her conversation with him, and the weasel said, "I wish I could be there for you, but unfortunately my family obligations won't allow me to leave here." So she really has nothing there, just a fantasy. He is fanning the flames into thinking she has a horrible marriage.
Friends who know about this think she is an idiot. So now she is revising history to tell people what a horrible husband I was/am. Problem is, most of them know me and how I behalf with DS and her. They know I'm a loving doting father and I am a great provider for the family. So WW even told me once when she tells people the things that went wrong in our marriage, most adds up to trivial petty things that made no sense to people. I have made my share of mistakes but none that deserves the Affair.
Sorry you are here. I love the revisionist history that they ALL write to justify their behavior. Very sad. It's hard not to feed into it. But most of it is just normal human dynamics of a couple that they have overblown to suit their needs. It's a shame what the ww and waw want to throw away. I was here before and got her to recommit. Now I am back after getting complacent after having some bad things happen to both parents and getting depressed and yadayadayada. But this time I am starting to get it. You can't love someone the way that YOU think they should be loved, it has to be the way that they need to be loved. Again not justifying any actions by the WW or WAW, just a personal revelation. All we can do is stay positive that things will work out and literally work out. It can happen though, but sitting, and wishing won't get it done. It is an exhausting effort. One that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. But this board is great for spirit lifting. Take solace in it and I wish luck as I continue to follow your posts.
Hello CWOL,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
Detaching is key to the DB process. It may seem counter intuitive, but that is ok! Put your time, effort and energy into being the best CWOL and Dad that only a fool would leave. Do it for YOU!
Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Right or wrong, they are her feelings and she is intitled to them. And do not go fooling yourself that just because she hasn't jumped the guy's bones you are any less over. Women take EA DEAD serious. If she's allowed herself to EA, PA is no biggie for her. Rest assured.
1313, why in god's name are you still helping her out. I see what you are trying to pull of, but it will not work. Time to grow some cojones. Your W lost the respect for you and you doing her favors will not win her back, you will just look pathetic in her eyes. SHE NEEDS TO RESPECT YOU AGAIN if you should stand ANY chance of a new relationship with your W.
And both of you, you will have to come to the conclusion that your marriage is dead, gone, kaput and it is not coming back. That is not to say that a new relationship will not emerge, but it will be a while, a long while, think years, not days or week. Seek Sandy's thread, it will open so many eyes to you.
Please do not think I am being a dick, I do know what I am talking about.
Stay strong guys...
Right or wrong, they are her feelings and she is intitled to them. And do not go fooling yourself that just because she hasn't jumped the guy's bones you are any less over. Women take EA DEAD serious. If she's allowed herself to EA, PA is no biggie for her. Rest assured.
I'm very aware of that. They were boyfriends/girlfriends before I came in the picture 20 years ago. So they've had sex then. The OM's family rejected my WW and that's why they broke up. So now, after two divorces, OM is playing her again. She's got an idealized vision of him as her first "true love" (she's only had one boyfriend before him in high school, and then I came after OM). She is conveniently forgetting that he never stood by her and already has two broken marriages under his belt, with two kids to boot. Plus he's not serious about her anyway, not moving here. At most they could meet if he makes a trip out here.
But I get you, the most important thing is to get her to earn her respect back. The thing I'm struggling with now is how much Detachment? Other people have advised me to be cool, but if she calls with needs (fix her computer, fix her car, etc.) help her out. Let her see what a great/useful guy I am to have around.
However, Sandi's thread seems to indicate just play it cool and completely detach from her... Let her go find someone to fix her computer, internet, shower, etc.
My question is, to what degree do I Detach?
Detachment IMO is a process and it takes time. IMO you can be sweet as honey, but will be seen by WAW as a plan B at best, if everything else fails, if you know what I mean. I don't want to be plan B to anyone, I deserve somebody wnating to be with me, no someone who "settles" for me, because her A option is not available.
Believe me, I know where you are talking from and it [censored] big time. It's a terrible thing to be concerned for someone who does not give a rat's ass about us and hoping they will come around.
Do not preoccupy yourself with how detached should you get, you will know when it's enough, and it it enough, when it stops hurting and it takes months to get there...
It's almost enough...
Since D-Day she's been trying to make *me* the bad guy. I've been doing my best, being helpful and doing all the tasks she wanted me to do before D-Day, like doing the laundry and all the dishes, etc. She's almost stopped cooking entirely and I've been buying meals for the three of us to eat. Whenever I do nice things, her comment was, "It just reminds me of the things you never did before."
It's crazy when she works 15 hours a week and I do 50+ hours.
I recommend reading Sandi's threads. She says you can't "nice" them back into a relationship with you.
I recommend reading Sandi's threads. She says you can't "nice" them back into a relationship with you.
Nope, you sure as hell can't. In fact it just pisses them off. Don't do it. Stand up for yourself, please remember you do not have anything to lose, what is she going to do, leave you?
Thanks guys, it is very different from the advice I have received up to this point from other forums. In fact, it is 180 degree difference.
I really need to think hard as to what I am doing.
1313, why in god's name are you still helping her out. I see what you are trying to pull of, but it will not work. Time to grow some cojones. Your W lost the respect for you and you doing her favors will not win her back, you will just look pathetic in her eyes. SHE NEEDS TO RESPECT YOU AGAIN if you should stand ANY chance of a new relationship with your W.
I'm in the interesting situation that the W's assistant is acting as some sort of sick proxy. I have to beg to get access to the house. So today, the assistant meets me. She has no idea that I know the W is gone out of town. Now I know that she has a niece/nephew house sitting - she was playing dumb about the meds on the kitchen counter and the spare bedroom in full use.
So, yesterday she's calling me wanting her password for her email. I tell her that's none of my business. She can't understand (or won't) why the system admin wouldn't have everyone's password. I tell her all I did was enter it, tell her to write it down and after that it's her problem. Then, she wants me to give her my admin password. To the point of harassment. She really rubs people the wrong way, and isn't bright enough to remember anything you try to relay to her.
Thing is - I remember her password. I even gave her the password - by telling her "have you tried your name? Different ways? Upper and lower case?" Apparently, she hasn't. I also know the reason that her outlook isn't working is that they bought a new PC (sort of like buying a new car because the old one needs an oil change) to replace the one I built for her, to which I'm still the administrator. Apparently, their IT guy hasn't got it working yet. After all, everything I did was a staff position according to the W.
So, I told the ass (assistant for short) that the W had taken me off of the wireless account, I can no longer log in to pay my bill, and have to go and get my account straightened out (a 20 minute drive) in person. I have to look out for me, not you. Good luck. Love to help you - but the W took care of that.
So, I'm not really rolling over on this. Honestly, I could screw them over like nobody's business. I could literally turn off the W's email and put her out of business. I could have turned off their office subscription if I had wanted - I believe she was wise enough to change the password on that. But I still own the domains, and administrate the emails. But at this point I'd rather take care of myself and disconnect as much as I possibly can.
I think Vapo is right in your situation, you should definitely Detach if she is treating you so poorly, if she is not paying you a salary.
Don't sabotage anything though, because that may come back to bite you later in divorce. Keep your cards close until when you need to use them.
Since D-Day she's been trying to make *me* the bad guy. I've been doing my best, being helpful and doing all the tasks she wanted me to do before D-Day, like doing the laundry and all the dishes, etc. She's almost stopped cooking entirely and I've been buying meals for the three of us to eat. Whenever I do nice things, her comment was, "It just reminds me of the things you never did before."
Those things are her excuses she fed you and being her maid will not attract her back to you. In fact, if you have a WW, you will not be able to please her, so why not do what works?
It is imperative no one be Richard (dick). Be pleasant but only to a level of meeting a neighbor.
As far as detaching goes WE ALL should detach. Guys, I' am afraid you have a wrong idea about detachment. It is not hating the W and being a total dick about it, it is detaching from the outcome, letting go so to say. You can still love your W, but detaching means that you recognize W's right to lead her life, do her thing, but you shelve those feelings and take care of yourself... And you stop worrying about the outcome and about your wife. You can't control your wife, you never could, the only person we can control is ourselves...
Sounds easy but it's the exact opposite of how I led my life for the past 20 years.
It'll be quite am adjustment.
I have gone through and read dozens of threads and hundreds of posts on this forum. Unfortunately, reading them really made me sad. The percentage of successful recovery of marriage is very low. Most of the posters' signature end with "Divorce Final XX/YY/ZZ." It makes me doubt the Detachment process.
I understand the need to move on, but I'm wondering if the cost of moving on is the end of marriage?
Now of course, the people who come on this forum are like me, with marriages were already declared "over" by the WS. So it may be a case of bias in the sample data selection. But still, they do not give me much hope.
There are no guarantees buddy.
But this gives you the best chance at reconciliation.
There are no guarantees buddy.
But this gives you the best chance at reconciliation.
Are there any statistics to back up one approach versus another?
E.g. the Detachment versus Engagement approaches?
I doubt it. If you look at all the "get your ex back" guides on the Internet, they all correlate with DB as opposed to the other website you are talking about.
Also, I was able to get my Waw back once using DB. Keeping her is another story.
Statistics is a bunch of lies anyway...
Smothering your W with attention an being her lap dog does not work. Period. Of course you are welcome to try your way, no one will be mad at you.
I tried. Hell, I even helped my W move into her apartment, I even carried the fridge for her to the 4th floor, I even listened to her sobbing how her OM was fcuking her boss and how he is such an [censored]. And then it dawned on me... ARE YOU FCUKING KIDDING ME? She was using me in any and all ways possible and I was dying inside, it was tearing me apart. Was I really this low?!? And then it clicked. Fcuk that, I am worth more, waaaaaaaaay more and if I have to grovel at someone's feet, then it is not worth it!. Period. So I cut her off, fcuk that whining, not my monkey, not my circus. We are friendly ebcause of the kids, but I do not ask her anything, I stand my ground, I am not being a dick or anything, I have won myself back, and I see when I express my views and stand my ground, she respects me for it. OH, I do see clearly in her eyes that we are done, but it does not bother me. She fired me from the position of her husband, so why would I be running errands for her? No way! She tries asking from time to time, but I politely but firmly, decline. So you want me to change the tires on your car? No, that will not work.
And once you reach this level, than life starts looking waaay better. I can shout from the top of the mountain I GOT MYSELF BACK! I GOT MY SELF RESPECT BACK! I AM SINGLE AND I AM LOVING IT! NEVER AGAIN WILL I BE A SLAVE TO SOMEONE!
And just to show you how twisted a WAW logic is, she actually accused me for doing too much for her. She said in tears why did I always have to do stuff for her, why did I always help her out with her stuff? Why did I not force her to figure stuff out for herself? I was dumbstruck. I could not believe my ears... Wait, what?!? You are actually accusing me of doing too much for you?!? Crazyland...
And then she said that all the sex we ever had was actually me raping her. Wahaaaat?!? She always (ALWAYS)instigated sex, because I did not want her to feel I was forcing myself on her. And now she is calling it rape?!? Also it was never any weird stuff and I always made sure she was satisfied first...
A WAW will rewrite history to the point of SciFi. No doubt you have come to witness an example or 2 of this yourself. When she is telling you about something from the mutual past and you go hold on, that is NOT what happened AT ALL. And you start to question your own sanity.
That is why you detach, to get away from all the lying, skewing of the truth and pretty much all the crazy $hit that is going on. Also you have to remember it is not about you, it is about her, she will make crazy statements that you won't believe. When you will have spent more time on these boards you will see some crazy $hit, some justifications for leaving even go so far as stating that he left her because she likes strawberry ice cream and he likes vanilla or because her dog farts (I am not making this up!!!).
So to sum it all up, you are in for a hell of a ride, the odds are stacked against you, your goal should not be to save your marriage (it is DEAD!, remember?), but to save yourself. And if you manage to rekindle a relationship with your W, that is just a bonus.
Why stay on these boards if not to save the marriage, you ask? TO SAVE YOURSELF!
But I'm OK, there is nothing wrong with me - you say. HELL NO! YOU ARE NOT OK, NOT BY A LONG SHOT, IN ALL LIKELIHOOD YOU HAVE BEEN NEGLECTING YOURSELF AND YOUR GROWTH FOR YEARS, YOU ARE CODEPENDENT TO A FAULT AND THERE ARE ISSUES LURKING WITHIN. Face them and work on them. Fess up that your marriage was not perfect (no marriage is), and you did not get to this point overnight.
This Vapo character is crazy, he does not know what he is saying, you are thinking to yourself. Sadly I do know what I am talking about.
You are in for a hell of a ride, but it is totally worth it if you manage to build a new and better CWOL 2.0, a man you always wanted to be.
And 1 final point, stop snooping, it really does you no good. Your W will do and say crazy $hit that defies belief. If she left you, you can be damn sure she has someone on the back burner, no matter if she claims that she does not. My W was INCAPABLE of lying before, now she lies like a pro and about everything. Your W will be justifying her actions to her (and your) friends and family and you will be painted as the bad guy. REsist the urge to fight her on that, because her friends will buy her story before yours and in time her lies will become too obvious and she will have exposed herself to the world. Do not count on support from her family, even if they understand your point, remember that blood is thicker than water.
So, stay strong buddy, save my writing somewhere, in time I'am willing to bet, you will see that I am 110% right. Also if you haven't already, look up Sandi's 37 rules. Pure gold.
V
CWOL I think ^^^ this is spot on. That Vap character is crazy, ;-), but the above is a great post.
Right after BD for me, I was on a different forum for a bit. They were suggesting pursuing as well. It just didn't feel right for me. I did try a little a bit and all it did was push her further away (like I knew it would). Not only did it push her away, but it made be feel like crap. Then I found this forum and the thoughts here more or less aligned with my thinking and my experience which was great. My number one worry at the moment is myself, WW is down on that list.
CWOL, yes this information is counter intuitive. If you will get past the fact DBing does not line up with every other forum on the board, and if you can accept what you are hearing, then you can start making progress. Most of the forums and books I read about M gave the same type of basic advice, which is okay if your W is not wayward in her heart. Once she reaches the rebellious stage, those soft soap techniques are useless. If you aren't sure what I mean by waywardness, I hope you'll read the link on Cadet's post, Help for the LBH who has a WW.
If you have a wayward wife, I promise that pursuing her to win her back does not work. Not only was I a WW, but I have been active on this board for many years and have NEVER seen a H win back his WW by catering and pursuing. The more you do for her, the nicer you try to be, the more you walk around on egg shell, the more disrespect you tolerate...........the worse she is going to treat you. The WW is actually so turned off and disgusted by her H that it is impossible for him to use those old "nice her back" methods, and get positive results.
Forget what she has told you about you not helping around the house. That is nothing more than a smoke screen. She has to come up with some excuse, so that is the one most commonly used. While the H is acting like a trained monkey doing all the work, her "highness" does less & less. Meanwhile, he is getting no where with her. Why? B/c the real source of her problem is she has lost respect in him as a man. Coming home after putting in a full day of work on your job, and then doing her work too, is not attractive to her (although she said that's what she wanted). It is the man handing her his b@lls while he clean house, cooks, takes care of the kids and does the laundry...so her highness can do whatever her wayward heart desires.
You have to get your focus off how to get her to stay in the M, and start getting yourself back to being the man you were before you M........or better. You appear to have the nice-guy syndrome, and I can tell you that they really do finish last. Please read the free download of No More Mr. Nice Guy. Do not let the nice guy label mislead you. Everyone likes the nice guy. Women marry nice guys, but after she lives with him for a while, she doesn't like him very much, and then she begins losing respect for him as a man. She takes his b@lls and she takes charge of the relationship. She becomes his boss, and he pretty much lets her make the decisions, while he keeps his mouth closed......figuring it will keep the peace. Only, it just proves to her that he isn't the man she needs.
The part that really pisses me off is that in a divorce settlement, she's going to get half, which is 95% earned by me over the past 18 years. Our system is screwed up. She is the unfaithful one, yet she gets to walk out and take what I earned, plus get a monthly support check from me?!?
Luckily, over the past five years, despite her and MIL's pestering, I kept my house's title as "CWOL, a married man as his sole and separate property." I'll have to pay her something for it as the value has quadrupled, but it will remain my property.
I spent today practicing the 37 rules, detaching myself from her, even though we were at my son's game. I've lost close to 20 pounds now (unfortunately due to depression and poor sleep), but I'm within striking distance of my ideal weight. Once I get my S's schedule settled, I will start working out in earnest to get there, in addition to working out with my son.
I will observe how the Detachment experiment affects me and her and our interactions. She still has not moved out, blaming the fact that I moved the money when my snooping found out about her secret plot to divorce me. I did give her an advance on cash to help her move out (based on my attorney's advice).
I have to disagree with you guys on part of this. I do think snooping has (had?) some tactical value. But you are right, emotionally it takes a toll to hear all the cr*p said about me. It was worth several tens of thousands of dollars to preemptively plan my asset structure though.
Snooping for a tactical advantage yes, but snooping for no reason other just curiosity, a big NO NO.
CWOL, yes this information is counter intuitive. If you will get past the fact DBing does not line up with every other forum on the board, and if you can accept what you are hearing, then you can start making progress. Most of the forums and books I read about M gave the same type of basic advice, which is okay if your W is not wayward in her heart. Once she reaches the rebellious stage, those soft soap techniques are useless. If you aren't sure what I mean by waywardness, I hope you'll read the link on Cadet's post, Help for the LBH who has a WW.
Yes, my wife is the definition of wayward. She's in an EA but it's because I did not completely kill the EA the first time around 17 years ago.
Can you post some links for threads where Detachment was able to get the marriage to piece again? (Give a guy some hope, please.) There was a thread but when I clicked the links were all dead.
This is one of my favorites that I have copied/pasted:
Gday Steve
I have followed your post some but wanted to jump on to give you some thoughts. From my side I went through this seperation hell for over a year, I did not see my wife for fourteen months, was involved in three court cases (I was absent from them) and I would have talked to her four times in the four months leading up to these cases - I was living 15000kms away from her away.
Through the time of our seperation I was on the recieving end of some great verbal 'abuse' by my wife. She said she hated me, I was going to hell, I was untrustworthy, a liar, a minupulator, etc etc. Through the time she accused me of two affairs of which she said she had proof and a whole range of other things as well (none of which was true).
Mate my greatest shock in all this was a week before the final court case (which was going to last a minimum of three days in the court) my wife contacted me out completely unexpectantly and wanted to get back together. The end result is we are back together and moving along well.
Through this time I made every DB mistake that is possible to make. In the end the one thing I did well was detach from her and make her see what life by herself was going to be. What I am saying in the following is a combination of (1) myself being able to detach from the hell and emotional turmoil of seperation that you are going through and (2) from a number of conversations that I have with my wife since we have reconcilled. My story is spread across newcomers, seperated and surving but I have no idea how many pages back they now lurk.
Firstly from what you are written you have a very good chance of fixing things up in your sitch BUT you have to start detaching from this. There are some things that you have to learn that you cant control and stop fighting them. As hard as it is questions about OM, cell phone bills, etc are just going to alienate your wife and push her further away from you. One of the hardest things your going to have to do is suck these questions into you and not say anything to your wife. When things are getting too you - go to the gym, go for a walk or run or just vent here. Do NOT bring up your suspicions to your wife it is just going to highlight the reasons to herself why she 'left' you, and believe me at this stage she is looking for things to justify her actions to herself.
So a couple of things that I have found out from my wife that I am almost certain pertain to you sitch as well.
Your wife loves you and thinks about you continuously. They do not turn this off overnight, she is just very confused at the moment about her feelings.
Your wife misses you and the closeness that you had. She is trying to replace it at the moment with nights out with friends, etc. But watch mate, these friends will come and go and she will look at you as the constant in her life.
Your wife is angry at the moment and she will direct that anger to you. As the seperation progresses she will start to loose this anger and will likely push your buttons to get you into a fight so that she can then validate her feelings of anger towards you to herself. Remember it is always easy to put the blame on someone else other then the scarey step of accepting that some fault does lie with themselves.
Your wife does NOT hate you. She is confused about the feelings and the turmoil that she is experiancing at the moment. That confusion will come out in some truely aweful things that will be said but while she may 'think' she feels this, she doesnt. Accept the confusuion, dont fight it as you will only push her away and validate her feelings to herself.
Your wife remembers just about everything you say in this time. You dont have to keep reinforcong it in the hope that she 'hears it'. I am continually amazed at the things my wife is able to recollcet that were said in comments a year ago in the mdist of our darkest period. They do hear however at the moment they just are not ready to validate or accept what your saying.
Mate these are just a few of the points that I have picked up from my conversations with my wife (there are many more). In the end I did nothing spectactular, there are many far better 'dbers' on this board then I ever was or ever will be. The one thing I did was detach - in my mind my marriage was over and I got on with life. She then had to relaise what 'independance' truely was and to her credit and my good fortune she took the step of holding out the branch of reconcilliation and it was probably one of the bravest things she has done in her life.
You have many things going for you in your current sitch but you have to be patient and detach as best as you can. Now this does not mean turn away from your wife, ignore her, be mean, etc. It means look after you, look after your children and make sure you are happy and as much as you can project that happiness (my wife said that it was when she saw I had got my confidence back in myself and I stopped the begging, whining, 'acting' stuff that she got her attraction back to me). This will show more to her then any statements of 'look how much I have changed'.
In yourself you have to see that this whole db stuff is more then another 'tactic' on how to get your wife back. I think in honesty many on the board would say that this is how they are using it and get frustrated when they dont see immediate results. I know it took me quite a few months until I stopped using it as this 'tactic' and say it as a means of working on me and making me happy. In the end I would have been happy with me even if I had not reconciled.
This aint easy, in fact if your like me it is the hardest thing you will have to do in you life - it is something that I never want to go through again. You will make mistakes just remember it is not the end of the world when you do,
I wish you all the best and I hope for your success.
Andrew
Can you post some links for threads where Detachment was able to get the marriage to piece again? (Give a guy some hope, please.) There was a thread but when I clicked the links were all dead.
You can look up mozza's list of success stories. I do not keep a log of the various links of situations. I understand you want hope, and we are trying to tell you what works and doesn't work, and you are basically asking us to prove it by showing you threads where this one thing got the couple back to piecing. Maybe it would help encourage you to search out the stories that are in the Piecing section.
Look, every author, program, and forum claims their techniques work. They will produce letters from people who say it worked for them. MWD does the same, in her DR book. At some point, you have got to decide for yourself. We can't continue trying to convince you that DBing is the route to take. You either go with it, or you don't. We have had others who came here wanting us to convince them why they should use the DB methods, and in the meantime they wasted valuable time they could have been applying DB to their situation. I suppose most LBS want to see some examples of happy endings. As you said, so many of the stories have been deleted from the archives.
.
Personally, I do not remember one case where the LBS detached,
correctly, that did not have positive results form him/her. However, I am not going to tell you that that one act, alone, brought the M to piecing. It plays a huge part, I believe, but it is not the only action the LBS needs to take. You can read countless stories of where the emotional attachment from the LBS helped to push the WS further away.
I hope I do not sound rude, b/c that is not my intentions.
Personally, I do not remember one case where the LBS detached, correctly, that did not have positive results form him/her. However, I am not going to tell you that that one act, alone, brought the M to piecing. It plays a huge part, I believe, but it is not the only action the LBS needs to take. You can read countless stories of where the emotional attachment from the LBS helped to push the WS further away.
I hope I do not sound rude, b/c that is not my intentions.
No, you do not sound rude, quite the contrary to the other forums espousing their particular agenda. Most have a harsher response, "Our method works and if you don't like it, take a hike."
It is tough because it is very contrarian. I tried it last night and today. Last night our family went out to a sporting event which was my Xmas gift to my S. I bought some refreshments and brought it back. Then my WW wanted some other stuff for her and my son. Normally, I would have just gotten up and get it it for her. But this time, I resisted and silently sat there. My thinking is, she has diverted her income (however little) since January to her secret account away from our joint account, why should I pay for anything?
This morning, she made an unreasonable request about my son's sporting activity. I said, no, I'm not going to do that, why don't you do it instead. She was very surprised and a bit peeved, but she did it anyway. In the past, I would have just done it to avoid conflict. It did feel kind of good to make her take responsibility on these things.
I'm sure every newbie that comes onto this board has the same question about Detaching, if it would further drive away their WW. My WW is hanging on by a thread now, she's about to move out.
I helped facilitate her move out, based on advice I received that she would get a cold dose of what a 48 year old woman faces on her own. I'm planning to fight to keep her support payments as low as possible and for S to be with me 50% of the time.
OK= I think some mix ups about detaching and engagement. They are completely different things. Unrelated and they are not opposing strategies.
You can do both at the same time.
Detaching
Wonka has a thread on this I recommend it and it is in Cadets opening links. Detaching is for you and your feelings. It isn't being unattached to your WW. It is about attaching to yourself. Attaching to your feelings. You can still stand and you stand on your own two feet watching WW dash around like an out of control speedboat without concern.
It is letting go of the outcome, doing that which works to achieve your outcome. Its about you. So its fine if WW pays for your son and fine if she doesn't. You are doing that which works for you irrespective of WW, its the right thing. It is as if your emotions were tied to WW like being pulled behind WW emotional speed boat. WW is all over and you are dragged behind. Instead you are now on a surf board with your own destiny.
Engagement
is interaction with your WW. On your terms and in your way with detachment, ie irrespective of the outcome the engagement is on your terms..
Some sitches require friendship to repair others require NC. It very much depends on your sitch at a given time. Its up to you to determine which one is appropriate. My sitch is an abuse one and requires NC, in others NC would be more of the same damaging lack of interaction. For instance if for years the engagement was mono syllabic on your part then more of the same wont help you.
Engagement isn't appeasing nor punishing, it is insisting with a WW on being truly respected. It isn't game playing but open and honest communication. Authentic enforcement of your boundaries and strength for an LBS.
Do that which works.
Letting go
this is an interactive dynamic. Imaging two people pulling on a rope in opposite directions over a deep well of destruction. Then one or other or both may fall into the well. If one lets go there is no pulling and neither falls in the well. This can include a STFU response on occasions or simply setting boundaries. It can also be taking the higher ground and holding it. It is a strong non petty position. Seeing the big picture.
This isn't being unattached either. It can include the lighthouse stance and the Picnic by the Castle.
Moving on
This is not giving up either or being over, but emotionally saying I have things I need to do and places I need to go. I am no longer holding back on my life. I think this can include LRT. Neither is it giving up or being done.
Moving forward
making progress on your goals in all areas and observing how this affects your R.
-----------------------------------
that's the way I see it, if a VET would care to correct me if I am off beam.
V
I helped facilitate her move out, based on advice I received that she would get a cold dose of what a 48 year old woman faces on her own. I'm planning to fight to keep her support payments as low as possible and for S to be with me 50% of the time.
-------------------------------------------------
This could be seen as punishment and is very alienating, it's a little bit blanket advice and very irreversible. Once done can not easily be undone. You can have the strategy of reality biting with in-house S too.
If you are saying I helped you move out because this is for me and in house S is not right for me that's one thing but to do so to give WW a shock punishment that's another and might not be helpful.
As a matter of fact under the law your spouse has legal rights to financial and other resources and access to her son. Some areas have no fault divorces and in others her A will impact this. You have the right and the obligation to put your case.
The cold shower is what life is like without the protection of your M and without you or your portion of the assets or income as a resource. Being strong with your boundaries and stance is important and the right detachment will help.
Punishing WW isn't detachment or doing that which works.
And yes this is counter intuitive.
OM is a symbol of your W waywardness not the cause. You have no control over your WW. Work on you and detach.
Thoughts
V
This could be seen as punishment and is very alienating, it's a little bit blanket advice and very irreversible. Once done can not easily be undone. You can have the strategy of reality biting with in-house S too.
If you are saying I helped you move out because this is for me and in house S is not right for me that's one thing but to do so to give WW a shock punishment that's another and might not be helpful.
As a matter of fact under the law your spouse has legal rights to financial and other resources and access to her son. Some areas have no fault divorces and in others her A will impact this. You have the right and the obligation to put your case.
The cold shower is what life is like without the protection of your M and without you or your portion of the assets or income as a resource. Being strong with your boundaries and stance is important and the right detachment will help.
Punishing WW isn't detachment or doing that which works.
And yes this is counter intuitive.
OM is a symbol of your W waywardness not the cause. You have no control over your WW. Work on you and detach.
Thoughts
V
Not sure if you read through my thread, the OM was around three years before my marriage, 7 months after my marriage, and now. I don't think he is a symptom, but one of the causes. WW is in a fantasy thinking that OM is her one "true" love, even though he rejected her time and again. She emailed him for at least 9 years before I discovered it on D-Day.
Her moving out is her own plot, not mine. I offered in-house S but she rejected it point-blank. I only discovered her plans to Divorce and move out when the plans were solidifying. I talked to my attorney and others and they think rather than trying to stop her, it may be the best way to give her her "freedom" so she can experience life without my support. Hopefully she can evaluate it rationally, as I'm not trying to punish her.
It is letting go of the outcome, doing that which works to achieve your outcome. Its about you. So its fine if WW pays for your son and fine if she doesn't. You are doing that which works for you irrespective of WW, its the right thing. It is as if your emotions were tied to WW like being pulled behind WW emotional speed boat. WW is all over and you are dragged behind. Instead you are now on a surf board with your own destiny.
How would Detachment work in the course of an active divorce lawsuit? My wife just started one, it is definitely going to be a tug of war from both sides. How would I practice Detachment if every decision I make affects WW, and every decision WW makes affects me? Both monetarily and also for custody? These philosophical questions seem so very zen. How do I apply it to real life? For example, if she's fighting with me on who pays for what or parenting decisions in the future, how do I Detach myself from that?
This could be seen as punishment and is very alienating, it's a little bit blanket advice and very irreversible. Once done can not easily be undone. You can have the strategy of reality biting with in-house S too.
If you are saying I helped you move out because this is for me and in house S is not right for me that's one thing but to do so to give WW a shock punishment that's another and might not be helpful.
As a matter of fact under the law your spouse has legal rights to financial and other resources and access to her son. Some areas have no fault divorces and in others her A will impact this. You have the right and the obligation to put your case.
The cold shower is what life is like without the protection of your M and without you or your portion of the assets or income as a resource. Being strong with your boundaries and stance is important and the right detachment will help.
Punishing WW isn't detachment or doing that which works.
And yes this is counter intuitive.
OM is a symbol of your W waywardness not the cause. You have no control over your WW. Work on you and detach.
Thoughts
V
Not sure if you read through my thread, the OM was around three years before my marriage, 7 months after my marriage, and now. I don't think he is a symptom, but one of the causes. WW is in a fantasy thinking that OM is her one "true" love, even though he rejected her time and again. She emailed him for at least 9 years before I discovered it on D-Day.
Her moving out is her own plot, not mine. I offered in-house S but she rejected it point-blank. I only discovered her plans to Divorce and move out when the plans were solidifying. I talked to my attorney and others and they think rather than trying to stop her, it may be the best way to give her her "freedom" so she can experience life without my support. Hopefully she can evaluate it rationally, as I'm not trying to punish her.
Yes I tread it and made notes.
V
Here is a good description of DBing detachment.
Healthy Detachment...(Posted by DBer Peanut originally)
I. Detachment
Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.
Attached, we take personally ALL that is said, not said, done and not done.
When our ego gets wounded, we are more inclined to do/say things that undermine our goals.
When we are Detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.
Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation, and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.
On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.
Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not indifference. It is not the mind saying, ‘I am not getting what I want so I must pull back.’
It is the natural acceptance that we alone are responsible for how we act. We cannot control another person, but we can control how we respond to them.
We are responsible for our own actions (no one else is).
We are responsible for our own happiness. (No one else is)
PART II Detachment (found around here)
Detachment is the:
* Ability to allow S the freedom to be him/herself.
* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix S from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.
* Giving S "the space" to be him/herself.
* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with S.
* Accepting that I cannot change or control S and it was never my "duty/job" to do so.
* Establishing of emotional boundaries between me and S, so that both of us might be able to develop our own sense of autonomy and independence.
* Process by which I am free to feel my own feelings when I see S falter and fail and not to feel responsible for his/her failure, faltering or learning.
* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring, without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing, demanind or controlling.
* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective. (=Balance is a piece of detachment).
* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to hang on beyond a reasonable and rational point.
* Ability to let people I love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to not bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.
_________________________
It is letting go of the outcome, doing that which works to achieve your outcome. Its about you. So its fine if WW pays for your son and fine if she doesn't. You are doing that which works for you irrespective of WW, its the right thing. It is as if your emotions were tied to WW like being pulled behind WW emotional speed boat. WW is all over and you are dragged behind. Instead you are now on a surf board with your own destiny.
How would Detachment work in the course of an active divorce lawsuit?
No differently, its a state.My wife just started one, it is definitely going to be a tug of war from both sides.
Detachment means knowing D is just a piece of paper. If D works for you in your sitch you initiate and if you don't want D you let W drive. It means being fine with the outcome of being D or not. And before you ask that isn't indifference, you may not want D and you may work to overcome it but if it happens you know its just a stage. How would I practice Detachment if every decision I make affects WW, and every decision WW makes affects me?
Detachment isn't a behaviour or action. Its a state of mind. It means that you make the right decisions for you in your sitch and know they have consequences and whatever they are its ok. You let WW make her decisions and know she can do as she pleases and you have no control over it. That is as it should be.Both monetarily and also for custody?
And many other things to in a divorce. You can play Wars of the Roses or you can play The Breakup. You can get punishing or doormat. All of these are choices. Another choice is to make the best decisions with a coll head and be ok with the results. That mans the right to stand firm for your boundaries, money and custody. It also means that if you dont like the result you have the right to seek changes.
You do the things you need to do whatever the results. These philosophical questions seem so very zen.
It isn't zen to me. its my normal state nowadays on just about everything in my life.How do I apply it to real life?
Its a state, start small with the ordinary things. If you want to go out to dinner and ask WW to go with you, fine if she does and fine if she doesn't. If you intense clean the kitchen and WW doesnt thank you fine if she does or doesn't.
If WW texts the scumball, fine if she does and it's ok if she doesn't. You recognise you have no control.
If WW infringes one of your legitimate boundaries then you enforce the boundary even if that causes spew. Fine if she spews and fine if she doesn't. Remember a boundary is yours and you can't set a boundary for someone else.For example, if she's fighting with me on who pays for what or parenting decisions in the future, how do I Detach myself from that?
You stop fighting and take the action you want to take irrespective of her annoyance. You do whats right for you, you know there are outcomes and you live with it, it is as it is. You stop tugging at the rope over the deep well of destruction.
You let the outcome unfold knowing you made the best choices for you whilst taking hers into account. Its a state of mind that helps you as a man live and deal with a WW. Its strong and attractive. Determined and Serene. You also engage with the process of D for your best interest.That's my view on it.
V
Thumbs up V, all 4 of them...
Thumbs up V, all 4 of them...
Thanks V
On a practical matter, WW is about to move out. Do I physically not help her move? Should I be present while she's moving? It's going to be a rough day either way.
I helped my waw move out during our first seperation. I only recommend doing that if you can keep yourself together.
When she finally left after bringing the last load to the car, I fell apart.
I helped my waw move out during our first seperation. I only recommend doing that if you can keep yourself together.
When she finally left after bringing the last load to the car, I fell apart.
I definitely want to avoid that with my WW. I don't think I will fall apart, I will just have Angry Outbursts and be sad afterwards.
What is the DB philosophy on this? I think she wants me to help her with the computers as well, in a Detached mode, should I do so?
Today I gave her a check for what I felt was the community portion of the last balance of a credit card we shared (but she is the account holder). I excluded what I felt was her expenses and paid only what was incurred for the family.
She started to question my calculations but I told her that's what I thought was fair and walked away. It did feel good to be assertive in these types of matters.
I have noticed throughout the weekend that she is very disrespectful of me. When I try to give guidance to S about sports, school, or other life lessons, she interrupts me and interjects her own opinions which are frequently factually incorrect. I have in the past told her to respect me and let me finish my thoughts. I believe she developed this pattern of disrespecting me as a defense mechanism since she is insecure about herself. How do I work around this while staying Detached? I don't want to get into a fight with her.
I helped my waw move out during our first seperation. I only recommend doing that if you can keep yourself together.
When she finally left after bringing the last load to the car, I fell apart.
I definitely want to avoid that with my WW. I don't think I will fall apart, I will just have Angry Outbursts and be sad afterwards.
What is the DB philosophy on this? I think she wants me to help her with the computers as well, in a Detached mode, should I do so?
If you got fired from your job, would you go running errands and stuff for your boss? Well, I got news for you buddy, you just got fired by your wife... You don't have to be a dick about it, you can politely decline if asked...
If you got fired from your job, would you go running errands and stuff for your boss? Well, I got news for you buddy, you just got fired by your wife... You don't have to be a dick about it, you can politely decline if asked... [/quote]
In my case, I wanted her last memory of me to be a good one. I helped her pack, told her I hoped she found what she was looking for, closed the door behind her, and went stone cold no contact for months.
In my case, I wanted her last memory of me to be a good one. I helped her pack, told her I hoped she found what she was looking for, closed the door behind her, and went stone cold no contact for months.
Was that the first time she left you? What was the impact of helping her that one last time? Looking back, would you do it again?
It's also very different with a child involved.
She ended up contacting me exactly one month later, to say she would be coming to get the rest of her things. She never did.
Then she texted a few weeks later, and made small talk.
Then texted two weeks later and we started chatting about things. Turns out she missed me as much as I missed her.
We got back together soon after.
She ended up contacting me exactly one month later, to say she would be coming to get the rest of her things. She never did.
Then she texted a few weeks later, and made small talk.
Then texted two weeks later and we started chatting about things. Turns out she missed me as much as I missed her.
We got back together soon after.
With our S involved, I won't have that luxury of isolation with her, unfortunately. We won't get a chance to "miss" each other, as we will need to see each other minimum of twice a week.
Did she ever file for D?
No she came back but dumped me again a month ago.
No she came back but dumped me again a month ago.
Yes, I saw on your thread, very sorry that happened.
What would you have done differently, if you had a chance to redo it?
I would have insisted on counseling the moment we reconnected, because she was all in at that point.
Counseling only works when both people have a vested interest, and she was very interested in reconciling at that point.
I would have insisted on counseling the moment we reconnected, because she was all in at that point.
Counseling only works when both people have a vested interest, and she was very interested in reconciling at that point.
Have you been able to locate a qualified counselor that will apply the correct principles you subscribe to, if/when she comes back?
My WW and I had a counselor 17 years ago when EA episode 1 occurred. We only went to him a couple times, we felt he was very ineffective. Now, after reading everything on the forums I'm leery about getting a counselor who might reinforce the divorce option.
Yes, we have a counselor we were seeing. He is a LMFT and certifed addictions counselor. By the time we started going, she was already checking out.
I do not recommend seeing a MT unless BOTH partners 100% want to work on the R. Otherwise it will be a disaster.
Yes, we have a counselor we were seeing. He is a LMFT and certifed addictions counselor. By the time we started going, she was already checking out.
I do not recommend seeing a MT unless BOTH partners 100% want to work on the R. Otherwise it will be a disaster.
Yes, I've experienced that 17 years ago. I believe my WW paid lip service to the MC sessions in order to appease her father who felt her divorcing me would be shameful (due to the EA). I think she just learned to suppress her emotional needs and go further underground with POSOM to carry on this EA for at least the past 9 years. (She still has not told me how long ago it restarted, although the earliest evidence was 9 years ago.)
How did you find the right counselor locally? I think if my WW turns around, I will want to find someone local who is pro-marriage. I don't think she would be open to a phone counselor as offered by DB.
C, don't go running ahead now, you have more pressing issues to address now, you have to fix you first...
C, don't go running ahead now, you have more pressing issues to address now, you have to fix you first...
Maybe a right MC/therapist can help fix me?
A MC? No. A good therapist? Yes. It can help and take the edge off and also help you dig at your own issues. Remember, you must fix you first.
Allow yourself time to heal. There are no quick fixes and no shotcuts. Also allow yourself to be angry and from time to time it does a world of good to yell into a pillow or if you go out into the nature and yell some. Also it has been proven that taking a baseball bat to an unsuspecting trashcan can be most beneficial (just make sure it is your own trash can, so you do not get in trouble with the law.
I helped my waw move out during our first seperation. I only recommend doing that if you can keep yourself together.
When she finally left after bringing the last load to the car, I fell apart.
I definitely want to avoid that with my WW. I don't think I will fall apart, I will just have Angry Outbursts and be sad afterwards.
What is the DB philosophy on this? I think she wants me to help her with the computers as well, in a Detached mode, should I do so?
Do that which works for you, and if it doesn't change it.
I packed for WH and moved it to storage to prevent him from coming back after he kept collecting his stuff a tea towel at a time.
There is high risk in messing with the computers, so I would leave her to seek a professional. Too many accusations can arise.
If you are going to pay off debts do so through your L and make the cheques out to the credit card company, post it direct and send the receipt. That would be my thoughts.
A MC? No. A good therapist? Yes. It can help and take the edge off and also help you dig at your own issues. Remember, you must fix you first.
What should I look for in a therapist? I printed out my insurance directory and there are literally hundreds of them ready to take my money...
CWOL,
It really depends on your issues IMO.
What do you want to work on? And you can't say work on getting my wife back.
Therapy is for you. What do you need to fix? Do you have childhood issues? Trauma? Addictions? Compulsions?
CWOL,
It really depends on your issues IMO.
What do you want to work on? And you can't say work on getting my wife back.
Therapy is for you. What do you need to fix? Do you have childhood issues? Trauma? Addictions? Compulsions?
I feel terrible. My moods swing constantly. I sleep in chunks of 2-3 hours every night I've lost 20 pounds in a couple months.
Ok sounds like depression/anxiety.
I would look for a therapist that specializes in cognitive behavioral therapy.
You can also visit with your doctor and ask for anti-depressants. That will help take the edge off. But they take 4-6 weeks to really kick in.
CWOL,
It really depends on your issues IMO.
What do you want to work on? And you can't say work on getting my wife back.
Therapy is for you. What do you need to fix? Do you have childhood issues? Trauma? Addictions? Compulsions?
I feel terrible. My moods swing constantly. I sleep in chunks of 2-3 hours every night I've lost 20 pounds in a couple months.
SAdly, that is normal. Don't be embarrassed to seek medical help with the mood swings. Things can get overwhelming,believe me, I know. This situation is probably one of the worst situations you will ever encounter.
But the good news is that it will get better, but it does take time. And it is going to take as long as it's going to take... In my case it took 6 months after BD before I started feeling better and another 6 months before I could say I was well.
Physical activity helps, a lot, esp. hiking in nature and in the sun. Also trying new stuff helps, meeting new people helps (not women).
SAdly, that is normal. Don't be embarrassed to seek medical help with the mood swings. Things can get overwhelming,believe me, I know. This situation is probably one of the worst situations you will ever encounter.
But the good news is that it will get better, but it does take time. And it is going to take as long as it's going to take... In my case it took 6 months after BD before I started feeling better and another 6 months before I could say I was well.
Physical activity helps, a lot, esp. hiking in nature and in the sun. Also trying new stuff helps, meeting new people helps (not women).
I'm just upset that a short conversation with a prospective therapist got me so sad yesterday. What got me was her saying it'll probably take two years for my WW to get OM through her system. Woke up today feeling much better. I just hate these roller coaster rides, ever since I discovered the affair emails.
I help coach my son's baseball team as well so I'll get some exercise in this weekend. Will restart my competitive tennis soon and look into training at a gym.
Sorry, CWOL.
There are no quick fixes. And when there is a quick fix, you end here again like I did and get to start all over.
Competitive tennis huh? I used to play competitively as well. I can't serve anymore though - rotator cuff...
Hi CWOL. Many therapists specialize in a few areas. Try to figure what your primary issues are and find some matches. You also want to take a look at their degree and their experience. The higher the degree, the more you will pay. Degree can play a really but shouldn't be the deciding factor because there are lots of great therapists with a Masters in Social Work. The therapist's experience also can be a factor depending on your needs. Type of therapy can play a role. Do you want to explore your childhood, examine your thought patterns, focus on behaviors etc... IMO, your comfort level with a therapist specializing in your needs who uses the type of therapy you are most comfortable with is the way to go.
Physical activity is always good supplemental therapy.
Competitive tennis huh? I used to play competitively as well. I can't serve anymore though - rotator cuff...
Same problem here, but from a combination of throwing batting practice then playing tennis at the same time. I forgot my age and threw over 150 pitches to the team. Next day I couldn't lift my arm! Then tried to play tennis a few weeks later... Dead arm.
I laid off both for almost two years, two cortisone shots later, mostly healed. Now I'm a lot more careful warming up and serving.
Hi CWOL. Many therapists specialize in a few areas. Try to figure what your primary issues are and find some matches. You also want to take a look at their degree and their experience. The higher the degree, the more you will pay. Degree can play a really but shouldn't be the deciding factor because there are lots of great therapists with a Masters in Social Work. The therapist's experience also can be a factor depending on your needs. Type of therapy can play a role. Do you want to explore your childhood, examine your thought patterns, focus on behaviors etc... IMO, your comfort level with a therapist specializing in your needs who uses the type of therapy you are most comfortable with is the way to go.
Physical activity is always good supplemental therapy.
Got two appointments set up to talk to therapists. We'll see how good these guys are.
Finally got my copy of DR in the mail, yay!
Wife's attorney put in an ex parte motion to move all of my investments from my individual account back to the joint account. I moved it four weeks prior to her filing, so it shouldn't be covered by the ATRO. Hearing is tomorrow morning.
My attorney is opposing it, hopefully we will prevail.
Her lawyer wasted four hours on both sides bickering about nonsense. What a terrible waste of time and money... It's horrible what they can do to drum up legal fees.
I talked to WW about this and we were able to get it resolved.
Now the hard part will be negotiating temporary support (alimony) and custody schedule. We had already agreed to it but her lawyer wants to get all the holidays set. What a mess! Any advice on these?
Have you guys tried mediation?
Sounds like her lawyer is a money grab.
Think about either splitting the days or doing you get these on even years and I get them on odd years.
Have you guys tried mediation?
Sounds like her lawyer is a money grab.
WW is not going to go for it. She thinks her lawyer's "aggressive" and doesn't understand that it's costing both of us money doing all these frivolous things... She drank her Kool-Aid.
Question: WW incurred a large dental bill last November before she filed this year for $8K. She put it on the installment plan. She wants ME to pay for it now. Do I have to? I'm pretty sure my lawyer's going to say yes, because it was a community debt, I'd have to pay it and get credit on asset split?
Only your L can answer that one.
During my D from ex-wife many years ago, I had cashed out my 401k because she was getting garnished for unpaid student loans. There was not other way to resolve it at the time. She left me 3 months later. I didn't get a dime.
Only your L can answer that one.
During my D from ex-wife many years ago, I had cashed out my 401k because she was getting garnished for unpaid student loans. There was not other way to resolve it at the time. She left me 3 months later. I didn't get a dime.
I guess she would be entitled to half your 401k earned during your marriage. Did you do it voluntarily or were you forced by the courts/lawyers to do it?
Talked to my L, WW's dental bill will have to come out of the community property. So I paid it out of my account in order to avoid finance charges.
Ugh, life still [censored].
Just received my first attorney's invoice, I took a big hit because of WW's maneuverings.
I don't want to play this game any more. Where is the "eject" button?!?
Agreed - it's lovely to see those emails that say "dissolution invoice", isn't it?!
Maybe I'll go back to law school to be divorce attorney for my second act....
Hmm, I bet it made you wish you could take a live car battery to the lawyer's gonads...
Yes, that would be a start.
I think they're about the same as ambulance chasers. They prey on you in a time of need. The motivation is to file as much junk as possible to translate into billable hours.
My life $ucks
Ok let's stop with the attorney bashing... We are sensitive. BTW, I did do simple family law in the past but this could certainly cause me to change my focus for family law, just to punish cheaters!!!
BTW even though I am an attorney, I am still hiring my own.
I'd hire you to punish my cheater, Tim!
I'm in a no-fault state.
Cheaters get away scot-free!
Terrible laws.
CWOL same here to. There are ways an attorney can make it miserable for the other person. I used to work with for an attorney whose H cheated on her, at the time she was a school teacher. She put herself through law school and came back to practice here. Her entire practice was to be miserable to the other side. Before she got too greedy she only took certain cases. Then she began taking anything and was just know that you need to hire her before the other person did cause if you did not she would make your life he11. Now that she is older she only again will personally handle certain fact situations herself cheaters, abusers deadbeat dads but will give the other work to her associates.
Yes, I have many attorney friends. However, family law and trial lawyers are a completely different game, according to them. They weren't able to give me many recommendations cuz they're mostly white-shoe corporate types and those guys have a cloudy reputation.
I'm starting to learn why... It is so unfortunate too, their mission is diametrically opposed to yours, which may be to reconcile and save legal costs.
Yeah I can honestly say unless your sitch plucks a heartstring to them (and they hear it all before) they are interested in only two things their rep and hourly fees. Unfortunately, they know their rep will not be helped by you but the other side saying what a jerk they are so that's how they proceed. Most good ones I know work specifically on a scorched earth plan of attack. That's why I am glad I practice in the field so I can control and weigh in on it.
Does anyone have experience using a divorce mediator? I'm wondering if that's a better option than the current process which is guaranteed to p*ss off both sides.