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Posted By: GoodDad What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 06:43 AM
So W found out last night that OM isn't so perfect and has been lying to her too after reading several texts OMW sent me. She was pissed and hurt. Obviously she would expect him to lie to his wife but he told my W that he was moving out and done with his marriage. His W said he told her that he loved her and wanted to fix their marriage. A couple other lies to my W too. Plus he threw her under the bus making her look like a stalker. I said if he loves you he could have come up with lies that didn't make you look bad. My W wants to send his wife emails that OM send her. Showing he was the one pushing for things. I said that might get him kicked out and pursue you more, but do what you want to do. She is mad.


So what do I do... Nothing as I have been doing... basically being roommates living in different bedrooms. Do I start showing her some love? I guess it depends how she responds to any conversations she has with him today. I told her he would surely deny it and try to cover it up. If she buys his lies I will most likely be done. I don't see her buying it though as angry as she was.

What should I do?


First thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2650023#Post2650023
Posted By: Azzork Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 06:47 AM
Just because OM and W may be on the outs, it doesn't mean that she will suddenly want you.

I think you're already saying and doing too much.

Back off and let W deal with her own problems. Validate, but don't solve her issues.
Posted By: Maximus Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 06:59 AM
Hi GD,

My W had a fling with an OM whose W she knew and who he knew me.

After reading the last posts, I think you are missing the basic point in favour of the day to day actions and dramas.

It does not matter the reason why he cheated on his W nor should it be yours. It does not matter what he told his wife nor should it be yours. It is not your job to downgrade the OM. He cheated on his W for whatever the reason and it is of no concern to you, even though it was with your W.

As for you, you should not try to win back your W by trying to portray the OM as a creep or d1ck. In fact you should not try to win back your wife. She has to win you back.

Secondly, the underlying problem here which I think you are missing is that she should not have got involved with him. Period. Regardless if he is a d1ck or a really nice guy she betrayed the R and that is what you have to work on.

Why she did it and if you want your WW to be your W again you have to work on you and how you start to interact with her.

When I found out who other guy was I told him to stay away and threatened him. I even waited for him one night outside the gym. I was literally going to beat the sh1t out of him. He never showed up. I confronted my wife and also laid out a few of the flaws of this pr1ck.

The truth however is that it does not matter. If my W still wanted to have anything to do with him she was, even if I b1tch slapped him into never neverland.

So I decided to back off and continue working on myself and letting my W decide what she wanted to do. I told her it was her call but this train was not waiting. When she had made up her mind it may be too late. I still have anger issues about the event and if I still see him there is an 80% chance I will slap him even if he is with his family and I am with my W. It is a stupid macho ego thing I know but he was pretty sure of himself when I confronted him because he was always protected. Now he knows he is my target.

Anyway, that is one thing. As for my W she is changing and I know she has a storm in her head but she is changing and our R has changed since this all blew up.

Bottom line is dont concentrate on the OM. Concentrate on yourself. We hear it a lot and it is the truth. You have to make sure you rebuild your R with your W to that point where infront of temptation she will not fall again. Where you know that everytime she walks out the door she comes back being a loving and faithful wife.

You wont get that attacking the other guy. You cant tell a drunk how bad booze is. He has to abstain and go through the withdrawal symptoms by himself. He knows booze s@cks. He has to be the one to make the move.

One final thing which I think is more worrying, I estimate it will be a year before this starts to fade out. 6 months before she has OM desires of ever getting into another A again out of her system and 6 months before she starts to interact with you as a W who does from the heart and you will need 6-12 months before you have absolute trust. All this with the supposition that there are no major hiccups along the way.

The time line is obviously approximate and depends on her capacity to overcome whatever issues she had to do this and your capacity to unconditionally forgive her.

It will be hard my friend.

Very hard.

Believe Me

Peace

Max
Posted By: Cadet Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 07:19 AM
Originally Posted By: GoodDad
What should I do?

I agree with Azzork and Max - you are seeing the symptom of an affair as the cure.

It is just a symptom of the disease.

Kind of like if you have cancer and a headache because of it.
If you take asprin and the headache goes away, is the cancer cured?
Posted By: otw Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 07:24 AM
I third or fourth what everyone already said.

Why would you entertain talking to her about her problems with OM?!

I would have stated that i have no desire to discuss her and her OM relationship.
Posted By: GoodDad Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 07:31 AM
I agree with everything you are saying, but I think as long as she thought she was in love with Mr. perfect we never had a chance. I have no idea what will happen now. It does feel good to see her hurt some and realize the guy is probably a jerk. I will be done with the drama. That is on her now. I agree that I need to keep working on myself. I have no illusions that things are all better now. She will continue to sleep in the basement until I see some serious remorse and effort. She has said all along that she loves me and wants to be with me. She has said she knows what she is doing is wrong but can't stop.

I am a completely different person that I was when this started. I am strong enough to end it. She knows I have plans in place to move on without her. I have said that I will always love her but I can't be married to someone who isn't 100% committed to me. I told her this really doesn't change anything for me (even though it makes me a bit happy that it's blowing up). I told her I have busted my ass to save this marriage for 6 months. I said I was done doing anything until I started seeing actions on her part.

I know it will be a long haul ahead of us. I told her that. I said this will not be easy. But if we put in the hard work now, maybe we can have a great life and family down the road.

Ultimately she will have to show serious remorse and realize she has to figure some things out so this never happens again. I think we are aware of what caused is to pull apart, but it will take work to fix all the damage. I am prepared to do the work. She knows that. Put I won't do a thing until she shows me she wants to work at it too. Even then there are no guarantees.

But with so many days of pain and anger and sadness... I'm going to let part of me enjoy watching fantasy land burn down. I just hope it gets completely leveled. Maybe that makes me twisted but it's how I feel right now.
Posted By: Cadet Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 07:36 AM
Originally Posted By: GoodDad
She has said all along that she loves me and wants to be with me. She has said she knows what she is doing is wrong but can't stop.

Don't believe anything she SAYS and half of what she DOES.

Originally Posted By: GoodDad

I am a completely different person that I was when this started.
I am strong enough to end it.
She knows I have plans in place to move on without her.

Of course this scares her and so she lies to you to keep you as PLAN B.

She must live with her consequences.

YES - get some popcorn and watch her movie.
It might be a horror show but you can not change it or fix it.
She must do that.
Posted By: GoodDad Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 07:41 AM
Maybe I didn't handle it the best... but my W really thought this guy was perfect. So when I saw the chance to show her this guy is lying to you and using you I took it. I didn't seek it out. The OMW contacted me so I just used what she said.

I was at the point of filing because I thought she would never get over him and give us a chance to see if we could figure it out. I still am not sure where she stands with OM. But I do know she is pissed at him.

So maybe it was a mistake how I handled it, but when I saw a chance to ruin her happy fling I took it. She has taken so much from me I thought it was justified.
Posted By: TxHubby Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 07:51 AM
Originally Posted By: GoodDad
Maybe I didn't handle it the best... but my W really thought this guy was perfect. So when I saw the chance to show her this guy is lying to you and using you I took it. I didn't seek it out. The OMW contacted me so I just used what she said.

I was at the point of filing because I thought she would never get over him and give us a chance to see if we could figure it out. I still am not sure where she stands with OM. But I do know she is pissed at him.

So maybe it was a mistake how I handled it, but when I saw a chance to ruin her happy fling I took it. She has taken so much from me I thought it was justified.



It's impossible to save a marriage when there are more than two people in it. You know where I stand on getting affairs squashed like the nasty little things they are. That event may help her step back and assess herself. She won't like what she finds. Then again, maybe it won't. Some of the things you said in earlier posts were very good. If you truly have the strength to walk away from this marriage then you're doing very well. That is also an event that contributes to them waking up and lifting the fog.

Sometimes when the fog lifts, they still don't want the marriage. You have to be ready for that too. I think you're doing fine. There is no perfect solution for this or there would be no divorce. Stay the course.
Posted By: TimR Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 07:57 AM
I can't blame you for how you feel! I don't know what I would have done in your shoes. But looking at it from the outside I would suggest you be careful as this could backfire on you. She could end up turning things around and feeling that you are NOW that man that ruined her perfect R and her M. I am just thinking how my WAW would throw this back on me.
Posted By: Squiggy Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 08:04 AM
GoodDad, you're also still looking to push and feel like you need to do something. Stop that. You might disagree with me, but we've been watching you ride the rollercoaster with your wife, especially after confirming OM, and reacting based off of emotions. That will not solve your problems.

Take the solid advice everyone is giving to wait, watch, and continue focusing on yourself and your changes.
Posted By: GoodDad Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 08:18 AM
She just texted me... said she emailed his wife lots of things. SHe said it didn't make her feel any better because she realizes that she has ruined 2 families. She said that door is closed forever. Time and actions will tell what happens from here forward. I am still VERY guarded. I will have to see a serious amount of effort.
Posted By: otw Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 08:29 AM
i wouldnt respond at all
Posted By: sandi2 Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 09:13 AM
Quote:
So I shared that info with my w when she got home. Weird. The guy is a jerk who has had previous affairs. Think it my have bursted her bubble on prince charming. Not out of the woods by any means but I've been telling her for a long time he's just out for a piece of ass. Think she's seeing that now. Hoping this is the wake up call she needs. Told her he'd try to lie his way out of it. We'll see if she buys it. She looks pissed tho and that's not good usually.


This ^^^^ right here is what will make it hard for her to turn back to you. Men talk about how stubborn their WW's are, but I call it pride. And whenever the LBH is walking around crowing like a rooster how right he was about the OM, he is chopping off his own head.

Quote:
Told my wife if she leaves I'd be doing same thing. Lying to hot girls to get some action. I'm sure that impressed here. Beautiful part is I have a buddy who is leading on this girl for sex and it bugs my W. I said it's the same deal with u. She thinks she's in love too. Still a crappy deal for me but it was nice to have a little moment like this. Long way to go. Still need to know it's over before I can move forward.


How old are you? You are acting like you are in jr high. Stop this stupid behavior and start acting like you are a mature man.

Quote:
Do I jump on this opening of her thinking he's a jerk? I'm sure he'll try to explain it all even though it's there in texts. Do I email her and remind her of the ways he has lied to her and other things about his character... Not feeling like the affair is wrong... Being willing to walk away from his kids... He's a real winner. Or do I stay with leaving her alone?


You already have jumped on it, and it didn't cause you to look particularly attractive.

Quote:
I do feel like this is a key moment. If her fantasy land crumbles she might wake up. I don't want her to get sucked back in but I don't want to push her away.

I really believe that if after all she read and I told her his wife said... If she still tells me she loves this guy... I can't continue to try. I'm not doing anything now, but I will have to make a decision that is best for me.


Let me tell you something about your WW. I'm sure she is pizzed at OM, and her pride is suffering now, and if you continue to hammer away about this OM......she's going to start feeling sorry for the guy! Now, does that blow your mind efficiently or do I need to tell you more? STFU!

Quote:
So what do I do... Nothing as I have been doing... basically being roommates living in different bedrooms. Do I start showing her some love? I guess it depends how she responds to any conversations she has with him today. I told her he would surely deny it and try to cover it up. If she buys his lies I will most likely be done. I don't see her buying it though as angry as she was.


Oh, you want to start showing some love? Like a little hugging, some cuddling, a kiss here & there....and who knows, you might even get lucky, now that she's mad at OM? smirk I honestly hope you aren't thinking in that direction.

If having a bruised ego causes her to turn to you for physical affection, please be careful and don't have sex with her right away. I think the only reason she would even agree to have sex would be to spite OM. Her emotions are anything but stable at the moment, and I would hope that you want her to have sex with you b/c she desires you, and not for any other reason.

She may just want to be held and comforted b/c she's feeling the sting of rejection. If you want to do it, that's your business. Just don't believe that it has anything to do with the MR. It's still all about her. She's hurt and wants to be petted. A strong, mature minded man will remain calm and not take advantage of the temptation to pour salt into her wound. Neither will he act as if everything is fixed now that OM is out of the picture. (B/c he's not out, yet).

I don't think you should be trying to have a lot of conversations with her today. I mean, what do you want to say? She needs to let this sit with her a few days. Besides, she will contact OM again. You realize that, right?

You are acting on impulses and out of an emotional high. I suggest you remain calm and collected and not try to persuade her to do anything or agree to anything at the moment.

Quote:
She has said she knows what she is doing is wrong but can't stop.


Okay, so if she couldn't stop when she knew it was wrong, why would she stop when she finds out OM is a jerk? The answer is b/c she is addicted.

Quote:
But with so many days of pain and anger and sadness... I'm going to let part of me enjoy watching fantasy land burn down. I just hope it gets completely leveled. Maybe that makes me twisted but it's how I feel right now.


Careful, your halo is weighing you down there. Seriously, I get it. I just hope that you do, too. It would be easy to slip into a position of acting like her judge or maybe even a little bit self-righteous.
Posted By: GoodDad Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 10:02 AM
wow I appreciate the help but really feels like an ass chewing. There isn't a fn manual on how to handle this. I've been betrayed for 6 months. I have dropped 25 lbs. Am I at my best after being crushed over and over again. Nope. But I am stronger in a way. I am prepared to move on without her. My stance is I will be open and honest and be the person I am. I know right now she will get space and she will get it. I will not ask anything of her right now. I agree on intimacy too. Believe it or not I am far from ready for that. She will remain in the basement for a while.

I do fear that once her anger passes she will miss the addiction.

I know it will take time for her to get over it if she is choosing to end it. She started talking to me about it on the phone and I said as much as I want to be there for you right now I think you should talk to your brother to get a non bias opinion. She agreed.

I don't have any answers at this point. I know things aren't better. I just have a little hope that maybe, maybe the other thing is finally over.

Gosh... I know it was for the wrong reasons, but I had a little happiness today. Then I come in here and get my tail handed to me. Probably deserved it, but be nice. I came here for help.
Posted By: Cadet Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 10:19 AM
Originally Posted By: GoodDad
Gosh... I know it was for the wrong reasons, but I had a little happiness today. Then I come in here and get my tail handed to me. Probably deserved it, but be nice. I came here for help.

NO you did not deserve to be cheated on.

Everyone is trying to HELP you, sorry you don't think so.

This is a marathon not a sprint - take all the time you need.

The Gift of Time gives you lots of it.
Posted By: rd500 Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 10:21 AM
Hi just read through your last post and Sandis answers. The positive thing you did was telling her to talk to her brother Why would you even entertain talking about OM with her ? That's friends territory' and not where you want to be

Don't take the ass chewing personal it's something we all need because it easy and understandable why you would enjoy Ws news but it that who you want to be ?

I truly get how you feel but it's not exactly heathy Detach from her and any news of OM is not worth your headspace

Just my humble opinion , again the brother thing was perfect

Take care. Rd
Posted By: GoodDad Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 10:30 AM
Ok... so I overreacted... but I think my actions definitely changed my W opinion of the guy. Maybe it's just temporary. I don't know. But to see her furious with him and wanting his W to know the truth felt good. So I can't change anything I did last night and today...

So what do I do now. I know she needs space. What if she wants to talk about the OM? How do I proceed? I want it to work out. I want her to be done with the other guy. I want her to focus on herself before she if starts to think about our MR.

What do I do?
Posted By: sandi2 Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 10:42 AM
Hey look, I'm not chewing your a$$! I am a former wayward wife and I am trying to help you by telling you from the WW viewpoint. Don't expect me to coddle you. You were sounding pretty cocky when you were crowing about how good it felt to see her hurting, so don't try to go all soft and want me to be gentle with you.

Quote:
There isn't a fn manual on how to handle this.


Really?

Quote:
Gosh... I know it was for the wrong reasons, but I had a little happiness today. Then I come in here and get my tail handed to me. Probably deserved it, but be nice. I came here for help.


Yes, it was for the wrong reasons that you had a little happiness, and isn't that exactly what your WW was doing that led her to this point?

Had you rather me pamper you and tell fairy tales? This stuff is tough, and if you can't handle what I have to say....I don't know how you will handle what your wayward wife dishes out.

My intentions was not to squash your hope, but to prepare you for the reality that's coming. So many LBH's believe that when the A has been exposed then everything will be okay. Therefore, they aren't prepared and don't know what to do when they see things aren't fixed.
Posted By: GoodDad Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 10:59 AM
I completely realize things will not be ok. Things weren't ok before that's why were are where we are now. I get that. I would just be happy to start trying to work on our MR. She can't do that as long as the OM is in the picture. Is he completely out yet... I don't know. She's seems adamant, but that could change. I realize that. I know she will need time before she can start thinking about us. But I think this is a HUGE opportunity... so I don't want to mess it up. So lay it on me. I'll put on my big boy pants and do whatever it takes. DO I completely detach (which I have been doing). Do I show her my best? I know S P A C E will be huge for her.

Here's a problem I have... her brother is the person she respects most in this world. They are super tight. They need to talk. But my W [censored] at reaching out for help. Part of why she is where she is today is because she has tried to do this on her own. I want to contact him and tell him he needs to talk to her, but is that crossing a line. I am real close with him. We are good friends. But I know his sister comes before me as she should. Do I reach out to him?

I am a fixer. I can't get out of my own way. I have been working real hard on that. But right now I'm in full on fixer mode. I'm trying to shut it down.

What steps do I take?
Posted By: Azzork Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 11:01 AM
You do NOTHING.

Anything and everything you do to try to steer her ship will only make her revel against it. Imagine trying to push the Tasmanian Devil while he's spinning.

Give her space.

Don't show her your best. BE your best.
Posted By: GoodDad Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 11:07 AM
Not that things were awful before. We have a very good marriage. But we lost intimacy... or emotional connection. We both did. I pouted about it and pushed for more and that's what pushed her away. We did that over and over. But now I realize it wasn't even about sex like I thought it was. I just wanted to feel loved. She can show me that in so many other ways. I just didn't realize that before. We are good together. We laugh and have more fun right now than a most "happily married couples. We are both very good parents. She has been detached from the kids lately but when she is present she is amazing as a mother. If she could do one thing for me right now it would be to start spending quality time with the kids. I think if she did that she could keep her mind off the OM and realize how great our life is. But... I can't tell her what to do.
Posted By: GoodDad Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 11:09 AM
Ok... so Be my best... I can be a great dad. Easy. I'm all over that lately. But what does be my best mean around her? Do I do nice things for her I would normally do. I stopped doing those things recently when she moved to the basement.

What if she asks to come back in our bed?

I don't want to screw this up and push her away.
Posted By: otw Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 11:13 AM
When you say do I just continue to detach, and that you have been doing that. What does that mean to you? I see a lot of people saying that and am very curious why.

I don't think you just decide your detached.

What you can do is GAL and some 180s. Not focus on her. And eventually this may lead to detachment.

I am rooting for your opportunity here but what would make her want to jump back in with you right now? I know the excitement of the OM probably drove her. What is exciting about you now that will make her want to try?

I hope she isn't looking for that rush again and move on to try another OM.

These are real questions I'm asking and not trying to be negative at all. Let's answer them and se what comes out of it
Posted By: GoodDad Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 11:22 AM
No these are real good. I'm not offended. I guess I don't know what detached means. She is sleeping in the basement and our conversations are pretty limited to our kids and what needs to be done. I'm still friendly but not doing anything for her. I am not moping around reading relationship books. That's for sure. What else could I do? I'll have to reread that part of the book when she's not around. smile

I agree I can GAL. I agree I can't focus on her. I have definitely been more confident in myself lately and she sees that and has commented on it. I have been great with the kids doing tons of stuff with them. I probably could use a night out with some guys.

I don't see her looking for another man at this point. I won't say never if things don't change, but right now I think that would be the last thing she wants.
Posted By: Maximus Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 11:32 AM
GD,

From here it looks pretty clear you may have changed but not that you can move on if you wanted to.

The fact you are still focused on her, what she says and does to OM and her R with him. If you are really over her and ready to move on you would not care.

I still see you doing things to get a reaction for her to return to you.

Discussing with her the R with her OM is a big NO NO. She does not get to tell you what she has done nor why with regards to her R with OM or his W.

You should only be interested in what she has to say about wanting to get back with you. When she does, it should be with sorrow and remorse. She has to understand what she did, why she did it and what she wants to now do. If it is to get back with you it has to be for the right reasons. You have to decide if you want to build a new R for the right reasons as well.

I told my W i wanted her out and she came back saying sorry, bla bla. I did not ask her how or what she did. I did not care. It was her mess and she needed to get herself out of it by herself.

Everytime a WS wants to get out of the mess I suggest they do it by themselves without our help so that they convince themselves each and every step. They have to hurt each and every step so that once they come through it was through their own convincing themselves it was what they wanted. If they find the struggle too hard and give up, it gives you an idea of how they valued you and the R.

I have found that the hardest things to achieve in life are the most treasured.

She has to come through and then continue fighting to make it work.

Even if the OM is jerk. What is to stop her from recoiling now, still having a WW mindset and tomorrow find a more decent guy to start an A with.

That is why you have to do the DB for yourself and not to get a reaction. You have to be unavailable to her until she makes lets call it the green mile and ends her waywardness.

In short, let her detox this problem, come to her own conclusions by herself. There is no guarantee that if he rang her tomorrow she would not go running. What then? All your actions did was get wife p1ssed.

Another point you have to realize is that your W is currently more focused on revenge, spite and hatred on OM and what happened between them. That means she has feelings and is hurt. You want her to stop thinking about OM and start changing the shift to you and your R. The longer she is venting just shows how much more important that R is than you.

Your W is in turmoil, about now she needs a steady and safe emotional haven. You may have heard the term being a lighthouse. Here is where you need to be C.C.C. and offer her that. The light that will draw her in. The light that offers her peace and a way out. You have to be the strong one and not worry about whatever sh1t she is going through, she has to make it on her own to you and want to.

The I told you so guy does not attract a WW. She got herself into his bed, now she must get herself out. You should be the man back at home living his life with the door left open should she want to come back.

However, she must leave the sh1t on the door step.

Hope this helps.

Peace

Max
Posted By: otw Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 11:33 AM
ok, so in house is beyond difficult. Google detachment in relationships. there is a link to a post around here covering detachment, i can not find it though. When i did, I printed it and read it often. I know I am far from detached no matter how much i want to be.

I did in house separation for 7 months, awful. I did all wrong in the beginning to then finding this place, but w still never truly got the space she needed and always had me to rely on for things. As i think back, i probably looked weak sometimes, but there was some motive to my actions. Of course i wanted to be around her and fix things. I think i can fix everything in life. this i can't. But i also changed things for 180's, but i am not convinced that 180s are all thats cracked up to be in house. They look at you like you are just trying to get them back and it won't last, or they say why now, too late.
I made some changes because i saw no progress and new my life was going to be flipped upside down and i needed to be prepared for when we no longer lived together.

I went and still go to IC to deal with some things. I took the issues she told me she had and worked through them. I know this is not the whole reason we aren't together and it is not my fault alone, but i don't ever want the same excuses from anyone.

GAL, i believe is extremely important. Yes get out with friends, but you need to find weekly activities as well. what are you interested in? What is something you always wanted to do? Something you stopped doing for the marriage?

Did W ever give you any reasons why she strayed or became unhappy?

Also, you must realize you are not dealing with a logical person right now. Do not think you know anything about what she is thinking one way or another and put nothing past her.
Posted By: fade Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 11:50 AM
Originally Posted By: GoodDad
I am a fixer. I can't get out of my own way. I have been working real hard on that. But right now I'm in full on fixer mode. I'm trying to shut it down.

What steps do I take?


As my mechanic likes to say - "now thars yer problem".


The only thing you should be fixing is yourself. Everything you describe about your life - your wife is a mess, you take care of everything, you do everything, you fix everything. I think that is why you are in this entire situation. You absolutely should read 'No More Mister Nice Guy' - its short and you can find it free - because like I used to be, you are a posterboy for a controlling, fixer, issuing silent contracts and holding resentment when she doesnt hold up her end of the bargain.

As for what actions to take - what you should not do is take any actions that have anything to do with your WW. Continue to detach and force yourself to accept that your WW is not yours to fix, and she never was whether she is having an affair or not. However you can enforce boundaries of what you will and will not tolerate. By blowing up her affair, you showed that you will not tolerate her affair any more. But you cannot make your WW work on the marriage. You cannot force her to decide to come back to you. You cant even force her not to go back to OM. She is going to be completely insane for the foreseeable future, any energy you expend on her will be wasted at best, and backfire at worst. And if I were you, I would never entertain a conversation with her about her OM problems ever again.

However, there are plenty of actions you should be taking, and they are all about you and your kids. Continue to work on yourself - read that book! Go to the gym - lift heavy weights. Go to some meetups for something you have never done. Plan fun activities with the kids. Lock up your finances, get investments away from her and all her family, and do everything you need to be in an extremely strong position should you end up in the divorce process.

Just continue to be awesome and trust that everything will work out as it should, because it will. Either your WW will come crawling back when she is out of other options, or you will decide you can do better for you and your kids. And my money is on the firmly on the latter - I have dealt with divorces for a lot of guys just like you, and to a man 1 year later they are happier than ever and simply cannot understand why they ever put up with their exes.
Posted By: GoodDad Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 11:51 AM
Ok Maximus... I'm confused... You say basically don't be there for her unless she wants to talk about our relationship. Then you say be a light house. We have 3 kids and they play sports so were are busy a lot. I feel like my best option is just to be a super positive person around the house and not talk about the A or OM. Just be as up beat as possible and be a great dad.

W's reason for A is basically we had no passion for years. She got drunk and crossed a line she normally wouldn't and liked it and couldn't stop. She admits it was addicting. Not sure if that's a good enough answer but that's what she says.

Not trying to sound like a smarta$$ but I see both Maximus and OTW didn't have things work out for you guys. Are you telling me what you did or what you learned you should have done?
Posted By: otw Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 12:00 PM
I am not divorced, we are separated. I have no clue what will happen. I do know you will find that in house separation is near impossible. I also do not think i would be sitting around in the same house while my W had an affair.

So for your question as to how you should act, until you know she is done with OM definitely you can do nothing focusing on her in my opinion. And just that my opinion. My marriage did not have an affair involved, so i can not give first hand info on that.

to answer your question about what i wish i did or didn't do, yes i learned a lot here, but i ma not sure anything would have stopped us getting to this point right now. I know you may think there is a time frame involved in all of this, but there is not. If you go back and read some of the success stories some take years.

I guess at this point you kind of need to make a decision on what you want to do. i had a difficult time accepting things i was told here as well for a while, but as i kept going kind of doing my own thing and a little of on here i noticed i was getting no where. Now I am doing what s best for me nd my kids.

I do still have hope, but i deal with the reality as well. catch up on some threads of others and you can get a idea of what i mean.
Posted By: TxHubby Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 12:00 PM
Originally Posted By: GoodDad
Ok... so Be my best... I can be a great dad. Easy. I'm all over that lately. But what does be my best mean around her? Do I do nice things for her I would normally do. I stopped doing those things recently when she moved to the basement.

What if she asks to come back in our bed?

I don't want to screw this up and push her away.


Nobody is going anywhere if there is an OM in the picture. Only two can be in a marriage. If there are more then don't bother trying to work on it. Personally I'm very pleased you may have helped hasten the end of the affair. It may help her clear the fog. Stay the course and don't even entertain the idea of talking to her about the M as long as there is an OM even remotely in the picture. You won't tolerate that. You can't.
Posted By: GoodDad Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 12:05 PM
Fade I think you have me pegged. I will move ahead as though I am preparing for life on my own. I WILL stop trying to fix her as hard as that will be. I need to think before I do anything, because I am usually so quick to act.

My dad was just moved into an assisted living home. I think I'll be spending a lot of time visiting him for a while. Maybe even stay the night with him on his couch.

I am prepared to walk away but I want it to work. For 21 years my wife was a normal loving person who was a great mother and wife. Then we went though a rough spell for about 6 months with me being an absolute monster around the house. I was miserable after my mom died of cancer. I was mad at the world. I wasn't a good dad. I was very unattractive. This is not my fault but that was my role in this. I know everyone thinks the best of their W. I saw the best in her for years. Even her best friends are stunned by her behavior. I have no idea how this will end, but I am hoping that we can work it out. But I also know hope is not a plan, so I am making plans.
Posted By: GoodDad Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 12:09 PM
12 years of marriage not 21
Posted By: GoodDad Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 12:30 PM
So is checking phone records and having email passwords being detached or do you just not care about that stuff?
Posted By: GoodDad Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 12:32 PM
I'm just asking because I really feel at this point that any further contact with OM is call for papers being filed. I'm not jacking around anymore.
Posted By: TxHubby Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 12:38 PM
Originally Posted By: GoodDad
So is checking phone records and having email passwords being detached or do you just not care about that stuff?



I guess it depends where you are. In a marriage there is no privacy except in the bathroom when going #2. That's it. Phones are open to each other, computers, whatever. You're not two single private people sharing a house. You're a married couple. One thing that will alleviate future conflict is talking out the definition of marriage. Would she be happy if you kept your phone private and were texting available women? Of course not. There is no privacy in marriage.

With that said, what I did when my wife offered for me to snoop as much as I wanted is to tell her that if I truly believe that I need to snoop then I'm gone. Once I decided to R with her I had to go all in. 100%. That meant trust and no snooping. Of course the caveat to her is there will be ZERO second chance. This is it. You get one stay of execution. The smallest infraction, one secret lunch with a male that you don't tell me about, flirty texts, ANYTHING LIKE THAT AT ALL and I'm gone. The reason it's effective is because now she truly believes that. She didn't until I filed for divorce and went out to lunch with a woman who admitted to me she was waiting out my marriage to finish falling apart and then wanted to date me. I know the conventional wisdom here is that I was a bad boy but it was great. First, it showed my wife that I was truly moving on from her. Second, to spend time with a woman that actually wants to spend time with you and there is mutual attraction? Oh man, that felt SO GOOD.

So for me if I'm in a relationship where I think I need to snoop then I'm leaving that relationship. Life is too short to live like that. I hope that's helpful.
Posted By: TxHubby Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 12:41 PM
Originally Posted By: GoodDad
I'm just asking because I really feel at this point that any further contact with OM is call for papers being filed. I'm not jacking around anymore.


EXACTLY the right attitude. You really are too good for this. You have worth. If she doesn't appreciate it then someone else some day in the future will. This is the final stage of detaching. It's you knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt that you're going to be just fine.
Posted By: otw Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 12:46 PM
Just stop everything right now. Emotions are running high.

Please take some time and focus on you and your kids. Let everything else go for a while. Do things that make you happy.

Don't snoop. No reason. You know of the OM

You can not do anything off of emotionally charged behavior.

Go on a trip anything.
Posted By: pinn Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 12:51 PM
Yea gooddad...no reason to snoop anymore right? It can only make you feel like crap. Focus on yourself, crush it.
Posted By: GoodDad Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 12:59 PM
Thoughts on her getting closure or telling the guy its done and if I should be in on that call or all 4 people in on the call?

I see there being another conversation at some point. Can I ask my wife if there has been that talk?

She told me today for the first time ever that she is so sorry for Fn up our lives. She said she feels sick about all the problems she has caused.
Posted By: TxHubby Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 01:05 PM
Originally Posted By: GoodDad
Thoughts on her getting closure or telling the guy its done and if I should be in on that call or all 4 people in on the call?

I see there being another conversation at some point. Can I ask my wife if there has been that talk?

She told me today for the first time ever that she is so sorry for Fn up our lives. She said she feels sick about all the problems she has caused.


You're considering reconciliation with this woman. In that respect, you have a right to know her status. If she has any contact whatsoever with an OM then there is zero point to going forward from there. In that case you continue to 180, detach, etc. I was like you, I finally had enough and filed. I wasn't as smart as you, however. I took over 2 years to get there. I swear that shaved 20 years off my life. It was emotional hell. You're getting that faster which is healthier for you. I know you love her and want her but you don't need her. Yes, it's not breaking any rules to know the situation of a person you're considering reconciling with. In a real and honest relationship there are no secrets. If you and she start to R and she's having any contact with OM then that's a secret and R is doomed to failure and you wasted a lot of time that you could have spent getting on with your life.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 01:23 PM
Here is a good description of DBing detachment.

Healthy Detachment...(Posted by DBer Peanut originally)

I. Detachment

Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.

Attached, we take personally ALL that is said, not said, done and not done.

When our ego gets wounded, we are more inclined to do/say things that undermine our goals.

When we are Detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.

Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation, and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.

On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.

Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not indifference. It is not the mind saying, ‘I am not getting what I want so I must pull back.’

It is the natural acceptance that we alone are responsible for how we act. We cannot control another person, but we can control how we respond to them.

We are responsible for our own actions (no one else is).

We are responsible for our own happiness. (No one else is)


PART II Detachment (found around here)

Detachment is the:

* Ability to allow S the freedom to be him/herself.

* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix S from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.

* Giving S "the space" to be him/herself.

* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with S.

* Accepting that I cannot change or control S and it was never my "duty/job" to do so.

* Establishing of emotional boundaries between me and S, so that both of us might be able to develop our own sense of autonomy and independence.

* Process by which I am free to feel my own feelings when I see S falter and fail and not to feel responsible for his/her failure, faltering or learning.

* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring, without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing, demanind or controlling.

* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective. (=Balance is a piece of detachment).

* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to hang on beyond a reasonable and rational point.

* Ability to let people I love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to not bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.
_________________________
Posted By: Maximus Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 01:25 PM
Hi GD,

I'll break it down to you.

Its pretty simple in my eyes.

Dont be her shoulder about her problems with OM or what she did with OMW. Its not your call. She has to solve it on her own. As Sandi says, she has to put her big girl panties on.

Decide if you want to make it work and if you do then listen and apply the DB techniques so that you iron out those flaws you have for your new R with your W or someone else if you decide to move on.

If you decide to move forward with your W then be the lighthouse for her. She will have a storm in her head, act irrationally, some days go forward, some days go back. Some days act lovingly and others you want to toss her out a window. You however have to be CCC and be stable and not act on her impulses. If she starts screaming and so do you it gets you nowhere. If you reply calmly you may advance.

As for the rest be upbeat and positive, take care of your kids and yourself and do things to take your mind off this.

Whatever reason she gave for the A is an excuse. And I am sorry but if after 12 years of marriage and 3 kids she crossed the line because of a lousy 6 months following your moms death then she does have her work cut out. Truth is though it does not matter, sometimes they cant even put the finger on it exactly. The reality anyway is that she chose to jump into someone else's bed and you did not.
She made a choice and has to solve it. Why it happened is also what she has to work on as she had many other options to choose from. At least to make sure she doesn't go via that route again if she is unhappy.

To be honest, no one here is really a smart a$$ or we all are. Depends how you look at it. Why come to a website and take advice from a bunch of people who messed up their R? Probably because they understand better than anyone the feelings and situation of everyone who ends up here. They have something more to offer than cheap advice. Read the DB book and see how much contradicts the mindset we have. Many of us here are looking for help and trying to help at the same time which is commendable. Offer the experiences we have to see if it can in some way affect positively some one else.

In my view, the only real smarta$$ I have found here are the ones that think they have everything under control. This does not apply to them. Do B when everyone says A and blame everyone else for everything. Which then brings about the question, why come here?

As for me, I am telling you what I did and how it got me success and still seems to be working. If it were not for DB and sharing my problems asking for advice I would probably be separated at this stage. I have no guarantees what the end will be but I am content with how they are going and strive to keep going in that direction.

As the person I am, I like to share my successes and failures so that it may help someone else. It obviously does not mean what I do or dont do will get you any success but if you look at the generic attitude and actions employed here in specific moments you will see they result in similar results.

Sometimes the comments we make on personal situations is like fine tunning an action or thought.

To put it another way, following the guidelines here achieves success on different scales depending on the relationship itself and how you apply it.

Anyway keep it up and remember you will patience, lots of it. Your situation will run easily into the latter part of this year before things seems "normal".

Peace

Max
Posted By: Maximus Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 01:38 PM
Difficult question.

Depends if you want to snoop or verify.

If you snoop then you are not detaching. If you are verifying she can find other ways to contact OM so your verification is unreliable.

In short, I would say not care about it.

One thing I have found out about women is that you know when you are not the man in their heart. Forget about what she is doing behind your back and focus on what she is doing infront of you.

FYI I judge my R on the interactions with my W. if I am happy with the way it is going and what I am feeling. If she shows me no love or I am not happy, does it matter if there is OM?

If she shows me love and is kind and loving... there may be OM but I would likely guess there is not.

At the end of the day time puts everyone in their place.

Peace

Max
Posted By: sandi2 Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 02:18 PM
Quote:
But what does be my best mean around her? Do I do nice things for her I would normally do. I stopped doing those things recently when she moved to the basement.


If I said not to focus on trying to be a super husband and just be the best man you can be, would that shed a different light on things?

It is a little difficult to give you the ABC's of everything you want to know....just yet, b/c you don't know the status of the M, yet. What I mean is if she really does end things with OM, she's going to be hit with addiction withdrawals....big time. This is a period that is very hard for the WW, and very frustrating for the LBH. The temptation for her to contact the OM will be almost overwhelming. That is why there needs to be a transparency plan.

If she tells you that she is ready to do what is necessary to save the M, then you need to explain that she has to agree to be transparent in her activities (such as phone, emails, etc.). You should be able to look at these without notice/warning whenever you decide you want to check it out. This is not only her way to earn back your trust again, but to help her to stay on the straight & narrow road back to recovery. Nothing should be private between a man and wife. If she starts in about needing her privacy, then she's not ready to do the work. The only reason for privacy is when there is something to hide.

So, if she agrees to transparency, then you are ready to give her all the support she needs. And, she will need encouragement and support. I have not seen any WW who wants to suddenly be smothered by her H's presence, but neither should he go away and forsake her if she's trying to work through withdrawals.

Quote:
What if she asks to come back in our bed?


If she asks if the two of you can sleep together in the same bed, my recommendation is that you agree.....so long as you are satisfied she's doing what she claims. I don't mean you hold it over her head, I just mean you shouldn't let her back into your bed unless you feel she is truly trying to do the right thing. Most WW's are not emotionally ready to transfer from the OM to the H overnight, so you will probably want to wait and see if she initiates sex. And if she doesn't, don't make it mean more than it does. It's an adjustment. I am a lot more suspicious of a woman who immediately jumps on the H to prove to him that she's ready to be his wife, than a woman who needs to take time to get her sh't together and get over the OM before making love to her H.

Most times, the H is thinking or wondering if she'll ask to do this or that, when it's usually the last thing on her mind right then. The difference in the mindsets, I suppose.

Quote:
I don't want to screw this up and push her away.


I suppose that must be a common fear of the LBH. Let me give some examples of what would push a WW away:

1. Trying too hard to be a super-husband.
2. Trying to act like the perfect couple/family.
3. Being overly attentive.
4. Not letting her clean up her own mess.
5. Self-pity.
6. Being overly affectionate.
7. Pushing for sex, to prove her love.
8. Being too needy.
9. Putting emotional pressure on her.
10. Guilting her about the affair/OM.
11. Unforgiveness.
12. Self-righteousness/judgemental attitude
13. Asking too many questions every day, trying to find out if she's contacting the OM.
14. Expecting her to feel a certain way too much too quickly.
15. Revenge tactics.
16. Over protecting her and not allowing her to face natural consequences of her actions.
17. Overkill with compliments.
18. Not giving her money (like before the A).
19. Acting as if everything is already fixed.
20. Making her feel as if your eyes are on her constantly.

Now those are things that just popped into my mind without much forethought, so I probably left something big off the list. But do you see a common theme in the things I listed?

Things she will need to see in you (in no particular order):

1. Strength
2. Calmness
3. Confidence
4. Balance
5. Decisiveness
6. Encouragement
7. Responsibility
8. Willingness
9. Forgiveness
10. Patience
Posted By: otw Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 02:26 PM
great post sandi
Posted By: melweb Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 02:43 PM
Maximus~~I love that answer "forget what she is doing being your back." But can you clarify how, exactly? It sure ain't easy.

In my sitch, I am not even 100% certain of EA or PA, but it sure seems like it when he covets his phone like he is in the CIA--it even goes to the bathroom with him. I am not sure how to get "the behind closed doors" visions out of my head.

Sorry to hijack your thread GD, hopefully this will help us both
Posted By: sandi2 Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 02:45 PM
Quote:
Thoughts on her getting closure or telling the guy its done and if I should be in on that call or all 4 people in on the call?


No such thing as her getting closure by seeing him one last time, or talking to him over the phone. Now if she wants to write him a no contact letter, that's fine. She needs to tell him not to contact her ever again under any circumstances. Otherwise, the only way to end an A is stop it dead in its tracks. There is no tapering off, etc.

I think you and the OM's W could certainly be there to listen to the conversation. I don't know that it would be wise for all four to join in on the conversation, but that's just MHO. I think the letter is better, b/c if she hears his voice, she'll probably become emotional.....and that could lead him to believe she was being forced to call him. I do believe if she writes a letter, that you should see it, and then you should be the one to mail it. She's too vulnerable at the moment to be able to trust.

Quote:
I see there being another conversation at some point. Can I ask my wife if there has been that talk?


Maybe by now you have read what I said about the transparency. If she has not agreed to being transparent, I don't think she's going to be truthful if you ask her if they've made contact. But, sure you can ask.

Quote:
She told me today for the first time ever that she is so sorry for Fn up our lives. She said she feels sick about all the problems she has caused.


Actually, that's an excellent start. Right now, she's upset about him and generally everything. Hopefully, it will lead to remorse.
And hopefully, that will get her through the withdrawals.

I think you should consider an excellent therapist or MC to help guide you back. Piecing is really hard and without some type of program or counseling....many couples don't make it. Maybe I am the one rushing things, now. Just put it under your cap for later.
Posted By: Flight Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 08:31 PM
TxHubby. Can you describe the 2 years before you filed? You mention it a lot, but what was going on? What whas she telling you? Was SHE threatening to leave or was the cake eating? Thanks!
Posted By: TxHubby Re: What Action do I take? - 02/12/16 10:29 PM
Originally Posted By: Flight
TxHubby. Can you describe the 2 years before you filed? You mention it a lot, but what was going on? What whas she telling you? Was SHE threatening to leave or was the cake eating? Thanks!


After the horrific event of 3/17/13 I was full of rage and told her she should leave. She did. She took a small apartment a couple miles from the house. We were basically separated (not officially) for the next slightly less than 2 years. Supposedly she was devastated when she got busted but even though her AP fled the state, I came to learn later that she was using OK Cupid and meeting other men. All the while telling me she was so sorry and wanted to R. Like a sap I did everything wrong for that period. All the stuff here we tell people not to do. Violated all of Sandi's rules.

I also numbed my pain through alcohol and prescription pain killers. The VA was happy to supply all those I wanted because of a service related injury that turned into lifelong chronic pain. In that time I neglected everything. My job, my daughter, myself. I was falling apart. I begged my wife to come home and work on the marriage. She said we need time apart to work on ourselves individually. Of course that meant she wasn't done meeting up with other men. We still shared a Verizon account, I saw her activity.

I wished most nights that I wouldn't wake up the next morning. She was the love of my life. My first love. I was her first love. We adored each other. At that time I barely recognized her. She acted nothing like the wonderful wife and mother that I would have taken a bullet for without the slightest hesitation. I was no longer enough though. She wanted other things. All the while keeping me as plan B. Telling me she couldn't imagine growing old without me and that we'll work on ourselves and be together again. Of course a little snooping on my part revealed that was all BS and she was sleeping with several OM. Some I probably still don't know about.

We continued doing this dance until I just had enough. That was a little over a year after B-day. Maybe it was God giving me the blessing in my heart and mind of finally truly detaching. I did a 180 before I knew what it was. I stopped checking in with her. I stopped checking up on her. I stopped caring. I truly stopped caring. Go be with whomever you want, I'm done. I can't live like this. She would call me crying about whatever (she was still in HUGE MLC mode) and I'd tell her I can't help you with that anymore. You have to figure your sh*t out.

I contacted a lawyer and filed for divorce. She got served when she was having friends over at the apartment. Her new toxic buddies and probably some creepy men. I heard some details about it. She freaked out. Told them all to get out and cried the rest of the night.

I guess she had figured I'd wait until she got this out of her system and we'd continue our marriage at that point. Nope, not me. I had enough. I no longer wanted to be married to her. She became the kind of woman that I would never associate with. You have to know the kind of guy I am. I'm a Disney Channel kind of guy, not a Cinemax guy. KWIM? I would never ever associate with a promiscuous woman. That's gross. I like nice girls. Always have.

Anyway, that did the trick. She snapped out of it. She stopped lying, started going to therapy. Got a hold of me at work and said to please give her a chance, that she was "better" now and would prove it to me. I said no, please leave us alone (our daughter also wanted nothing to do with her).

She wouldn't quit. I myself was moving on. I was seeing someone casually. I was moving on in every way you can. I was feeling better too so I really had no incentive to talk about getting back together with the woman who crushed my soul. My pick me dance was over. I told her I was no longer available to be picked. Still, when I was alone with my thoughts, she dominated them. Why? Because I love her and always will. It almost feels like a curse sometimes but I truly believe that the man upstairs planned on us being paired for this life and whatever's next.

Slowly but surely I came around, we worked on dealing with everything that had happened. I recovered all her deleted emails from her gmail account and did a lot of reading. It was excruciatingly painful but I needed to read it. I insisted. Although it was painful, it was eye-opening. There were so many emotions and feelings she had that I was unaware of. The whole family was unaware because she was a good woman and didn't want to burden us with her insecurities and regrets about certain parts of her life. I learned she questioned if she didn't jump into marriage too young and if she ever really loved me like she should. She questioned being a mother, if it was something that just happened but that she wasn't sure if she really wanted to be a mother. She wasn't happy in her chosen career. She wasn't happy where we lived. Most of all she wasn't happy that she didn't take more control of her life so I guess that's what she was doing by acting like a teenager again, drinking, partying, having casual relationships with creepy dudes. A lot of whom were married.

She was also diagnosed with severe depression. She got treated for all this.

Anyway, here we are. I don't ever bring up that period in our lives. I decided that everyone deserves a second chance, no one deserves a third. If you forgive a remorseful spouse then you can never bring it up again unless they do. Do you, as a betrayed spouse, have to eat some serious sh*t sandwiches? Oh yeah, you betcha.

Still, 3 years later and I do feel blessed. We both know that we'll be together for the rest of our lives. Although I know that anyone can cheat on anyone else I don't spend a second thinking about that. I could get killed in a car accident every time I leave the house. I don't spend a second worrying about that either. Living in fear is no way to live.

So here we are. I love her, she loves me, and we work on us every day. 2 years of agony. I still feel depleted, like it killed part of my soul but I'm recovering. Talking to people here helps. She encourages me to do it and she also reads all your stories. Some of them have made her cry because she sees herself and her past cruelty in some WW's she reads about here. Today the fog is gone, she's back in this world with me, and she literally can't believe how she acted when she went through that period in her life.
Posted By: Maximus Re: What Action do I take? - 02/13/16 07:03 AM
Hi Mel,

I suggest applying this phrase once they want back in. You are at a stage where the A has to be confirmed. A long way away from where I am talking.

FYI My W did exactly the same thing with the phone. If you want to make sure just use an excuse to get your hands on it. If he gets defensive that is a red flag. If he cuts out the sound for arriving messages that is a red flag. If he never used to hold on to the phone and now does that is a red flag. If he uses passwords or changes them without telling you or prefers to unlock it himself that is a red flag.

Basically any form of non transparency is a red flag.

Asking him or confronting him will not yield results. So no point doing that. It will only warn him to get better at concealing.

We are creatures of habit and make a lot of mistakes which is why we get caught. I am sure if you want to confirm if he is playing around or not just think back of changes in his habit, lifestyle or agenda.

If he is having a PA he will use the set of events that he has until now to not create suspicion. Suddenly having a new activity will raise questions and he does not want that.

If he is texting a lot chances are it is a new A or at the EA phase. Once the A has gone PA or is in full swing for sometime it turns into a relationship with less txt as they are talking when they meet.

These are imho but if he is clutching the phone then yes, he is doing something he should not. How much he is texting in my view determines if it is an EA or PA and in what phase it is.

Hope to have been of help

Peace

Max
Posted By: sandi2 Re: What Action do I take? - 02/13/16 08:11 AM
There's a lot of talking on your thread, Good Dad. Where are ya?
Posted By: TxHubby Re: What Action do I take? - 02/13/16 09:19 AM
Originally Posted By: sandi2
There's a lot of talking on your thread, Good Dad. Where are ya?


I wonder about the talking too. Especially when I'm the one doing it. I'd never want to hijack someone's thread. Sometimes we get asked questions by other members but it's in someone else's thread. I wonder if we have a protocol for that.

I guess I could copy their question, paste it into my own thread and then link to it as my response in the thread where it was asked?

Guidance needed please.
Posted By: rd500 Re: What Action do I take? - 02/13/16 09:31 AM
Fantastic post and you a re a good man Glad things worked out for you

Take care. Rd
Posted By: Cadet Re: What Action do I take? - 02/13/16 09:56 AM
Originally Posted By: TxHubby
Originally Posted By: sandi2
There's a lot of talking on your thread, Good Dad. Where are ya?


I wonder about the talking too. Especially when I'm the one doing it. I'd never want to hijack someone's thread. Sometimes we get asked questions by other members but it's in someone else's thread. I wonder if we have a protocol for that.

I guess I could copy their question, paste it into my own thread and then link to it as my response in the thread where it was asked?

Guidance needed please.

I think that is a good idea.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: What Action do I take? - 02/13/16 10:11 AM
Oh, it happens with me, too, Tx. But I mainly was just wondering about Good Dad. Maybe he's out GAL.
Posted By: melweb Re: What Action do I take? - 02/14/16 07:39 AM
Thanks Maximus. My H said he was not leaving back on Jan 2. We have had some great talks and we were both on the same page regarding the R and M. Phone use had ecsalated before that, I figured as a way not to engage me in conversations... Which was fine because I was DB'ing and only spoke when spoken to anyhow. But since, it has not subsided, and seemingly gotten more secretive and covert. I mentioned it, and his answer was he "does not want me to get the wrong idea." That ship has sailed!! I am pretty certain no PA, as there is no unaccounted for absences, or weird disappearances. But EA could very well be happening right under my nose.

I'm sorry for the hijack too. I felt my question was kind of universal, with a universal answer. I like your solution Tx.
Posted By: Azzork Re: What Action do I take? - 02/14/16 07:56 AM
Originally Posted By: GoodDad
So is checking phone records and having email passwords being detached or do you just not care about that stuff?



Has she committed to you to have no contact with OM?

If not then let me save you some time: shes going to contact him again.

What good is snooping if you already know the answer?
Posted By: Azzork Re: What Action do I take? - 02/14/16 07:59 AM
Originally Posted By: GoodDad
Ok... so Be my best... I can be a great dad. Easy. I'm all over that lately. But what does be my best mean around her? Do I do nice things for her I would normally do. I stopped doing those things recently when she moved to the basement.

What if she asks to come back in our bed?

I don't want to screw this up and push her away.


For the few weeks after BD but before we were separated, I was EVERYTHING my XW had asked me to be. I was a great parent, I listened and talked to her about her career, I bent over backwards for her. I tried to prove to HER that I was good enough. Of course, that was wasted energy.

My point was that you should just be the best version of you that you can. There's no reason to try to SHOW it to her. If she's looking, she will see it.
Posted By: Vanilla Re: What Action do I take? - 02/14/16 07:27 PM
You ok

Just checking in

Hugs

V
Posted By: Vanilla Re: What Action do I take? - 02/16/16 11:06 AM
Am concerned about you.

V
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