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Posted By: keefa Inevitable always happens - 02/10/16 08:20 AM
Extremely confused

I am now living alone in a shell of a house stuggling.
I 'think' I am very very slightly past rock bottom but not really sure yet. I am hoping this thread plots a significant change.
I've been told to take the afternoon off work again as I cannot stop the tears. My thoughs this afternoon are quite simply, where did I go wrong ? I provided, cared, worked hard, supported, did my share and so on and so on. My stbxw has never, not once, even tried to talk about our M or the D. it has just been a series of statements 'I want a divorce' or letters from her L. Anyone any thoughts on why this has been so decided right from the BD ?
Posted By: Cadet Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/10/16 09:06 AM
Keefa

YOU did not break your wife and YOU can not FIX this or her.

You are blaming yourself for HER feelings.
You have NO control over her feelings.
You can only accept them for what they are.

YOU can look in the mirror and see what there is about yourself that needs to be changed.
You make those changes for YOU, not to win her back.

You make yourself into a person only a fool would leave.
Then if she is a fool, you can not help that.

I am glad you are a little passed rock bottom.
Slowly you will climb out from this point forward.
It will not be straight up and you may have some set backs along the way.
However YOU can make this climb!

Make some small goals right now and work on carrying them out.
Remember the goals are for YOU!
Posted By: keefa Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/10/16 11:33 AM
Cadet, that felt like a kick up the arse! Thank you. I guess I needed that.
Went to parents evening this afternoon. Both my boy are doing great. Am so proud and pleased for them. They are not showing much in the way of emotional distress at the moment but I think it's now that it will start to change due to the parental alienation. STBXW works part time as a teacher assistant at the school so she is well known. They knew about the 'toxic relationship' as she has labelled it to them but they didn't know that it was because her A. I sat with the teacher, she asked me what was going on, I told her. I was crying, she was crying. She ushered me into see the head who has said she is more than willing to try acting as a mediator with STBXW to see if I can get more access to my boys. This was a tough afternoon. Hopefully some positives will come from it.
Back home now to an empty house. I bought some bubble bath. I am going to go for a run then soak in the tub with a cuppa and some podcast or music. I hope it works.
Posted By: shreeve Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/10/16 01:57 PM
Keefa I'm so sorry. I did similar / put wife through school, never any trouble / fighting / lack of intimacy or anything. She just fell in love with some guy and rewrote history. And I am in a huge house by myself and try to get out of it every night! It's tough being alone by yourself where you used to have your best friend / lover / wife. Betrayal is a traumatic thing for me, and it's tough every day.

I hope you truly believe what Cadet wrote - it's not your fault. Her A is a reflection of her inadequacies, not yours. Doesn't make it much easier on us emotionally, but we can only be accountable for our parts that contributed to the state of the marriage and positive changes we can make to ourselves. I do hope these WW's will see things with a clear head and heart one day, but they might not.

By the way, the run and soak will be awesome! Always makes me feel a bit better.
Posted By: rich4j Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/10/16 06:16 PM
Keefa
Hang in there....dont' blame yourself and as others have said...she has to look herself in the mirror and I am sure she won't like what she sees over time

Maybe we shall all find one big house and it can be like the movie "old school" ...probably save us a ton of cash in the interim :-)
Posted By: HopeRB Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/10/16 06:46 PM
Rich4j, the "old school" house would be a great idea!

Keefa, hope you had a good run. I too am about to go for a run to get out of this big, empty, apartment that I shared with H. My gym also has a steam room which does a miraculous job of sending me instantly into chill mode. I've tried everything to get out of this place on a nightly basis and sometimes, it sends me into a deeper depression. Every night I leave work dreading coming home to an empty apartment, going to bed by myself - wondering where H is and is he with someone else. And what makes it all even worse is that I can't even afford to be here by myself so dealing with that in itself is a pain in the arse but, I'm putting the pieces together as best as I can. Wish H/Best Friend were here rebuilding with me.
Posted By: broke Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/10/16 06:54 PM
I am so sorry, Keefa, to hear about your struggles. My story is similar with my H having an affair for 6 months. I thought our marriage was fine until he dropped the bomb he wasn't happy. In the last week, he filed for divorce, bought a new house, showed the kids the new house and told them we were proceeding with the divorce. Like you, he seems unmoved by any of the changes I have made or any divorce busting that has been done. It is heartbreaking, but it isn't your fault. I know it is hard to believe because I am feeling low myself right now, but it was our spouse that decided to break their marriage vows without trying to address the problems. I commend you for taking action like running and bath to help boost your spirits. I hope it helped! I empathize with you tonight and hope it will get better....
Posted By: brutus3 Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/10/16 08:22 PM
You know what keefa? Your wife is giving you a gift, the gift of allowing you to become an even better man but without the guilt. You didn't do anything wrong and you tried to work things out with her. She's going to be free but she's going to have to live her choices and the guilt of walking away.
Posted By: rd500 Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/11/16 01:04 AM
As others have said Keefa , this is not really about you. It her and her issues. None of us are blameless however you must not take all the resoonsabilte for the breakdown

Right now W sees happiness at the end of the rainbow and she's chasing it hard. All you are is an obstacle to her.

You are not dealing with the woman you knew It's so tough but is reality for now and maybe forever Stay strong and do things for you

Take care. Rd
Posted By: keefa Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/11/16 03:30 AM
I have a meeting this afternoon with the head of my boys school ( also stbxw's boss) and they are hoping to try and give some mediation as to why I am being denied access. I am hopeful. Got some money from a private job I did so went and bought Star Wars and Spiderman duvet covers and new duvets for my boys. Their old room now looks like their old room. Made me cry an awful lot but I am glad I did it. I also replaced most of the bulbs that she took so it's now looking brighter at least. Small steps.
I got to thinking about all the comments. I know I have faults but the difficulty for me is knowing which of mine are genuine as everything in the past has been my fault anyway. I look in the mirror and like and respect who I am as a man.
I have reflected back alot these last few hours and I honestly don't believe I was loved. Not truly. we've rubbed along together quite nicely. It makes me sad but it is also something I kinda knew. Buying and doing up the house, having the rounds of IVF, bringing up the boys were all distractions and I know inside I have been fighting for love, fighting to be valued. It's just not worked out that way with her. It reminded me of an old saying. Don't choose someone you can live with for the rest of your life, chose someone you can't live without.
Will see what the meeting at school produces later.
Posted By: WillDo Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/11/16 03:44 AM
My thoughts are with you. We wen through IVF as well. 5 cycles to get our twins finally.
Posted By: keefa Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/11/16 04:20 AM
So the morning post arrives. Lots of bills, default notices and bank statement which was interesting. STBXW has removed herself from the joint bank account. Never was there a more clearer sign...
I think she is attempting to 'wash hands' of the overdraft etc. We were not heavily in debt but were not rich by any means. The usual bank loan and so on which is now all down to me to sort until it gets sorted though the courts.
2 things I wanted to share. Firstly, I believe the affair (affairs) was a symptom not the cause of our marital problems ( to me they were not that huge) but... the affair has absolutely been a road block to any R or communication. It has made everything sour, terse and toxic. I wonder if they had sex in our house which is why she ran away so fast.
Secondly, I have been asked if I want company for a take away and a movie next week by a lady who is in a similarish position to me and lives close by. we have supported each other the last couple of months, She calls it an 'ego boost'. I like the idea and to be honest am not feeling guilty about entertaining the idea of being with someone. Slippery slope ?
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/11/16 06:05 AM
It is good to hear you sounding stronger. I would almost encourage anything for an ego boost when I see you as low as you've been. Of course, along with it does come a certain amount of responsibility. Just please, please be careful. You are extremely vulnerable and could fall into another situation before you've had time to heal.

Whenever there are two people, who have suffered a great deal, come together...........
both of you may be seeking reassurances that you have a lot to offer the opposite sex.

Is this take away and a movie to be at the house? If you were my son, I would advise you to go to some informal eating place to grab a bit, and then go out to a movie theater. Take her home, see her to the door, and then leave. I know of several cases where they did the take away and movie at home.....and then they slept together, and regretted it afterwards.

It doesn't have to get slippery, if you will keep your wits and don't use her to assure yourself that you can still score with the ladies. Try to keep it light and friendly. smile
Posted By: Cadet Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/11/16 06:31 AM
Originally Posted By: keefa
I got to thinking about all the comments.
I know I have faults but the difficulty for me is knowing which of mine are genuine as everything in the past has been my fault anyway.
I look in the mirror and like and respect who I am as a man.
I have reflected back alot these last few hours and I honestly don't believe I was loved.

Keefa first of all I am sorry you felt like I was kicking you,
thats not my intention because I like you am a NICE GUY.

If you go back and read my posts at the start of when I began posting here I said the same thing as you.
I like who I am when I looked in the mirror.
There is nothing wrong with me.
Yup everything that went wrong in my marriage was my fault too.

So this is not meant to kick you however everything was NOT my fault, nor is it YOUR fault.
I understand totally how you feel.

I think what was my fault was not standing up for myself and thinking that if I did something then my ex would love me.
First of all - she did not love herself, so how could she love me when she was using me to try to find love, and keep herself from being depressed.

I am glad you made a few steps in a direction that please you, yesterday.
You will keep making steps and that is going to lead to bigger and better things.

You can do this.
Posted By: keefa Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/11/16 07:58 AM
Hi Cadet, was meant in a totally complimentary way! Sometimes I think a little nudge is what's needed and you got it bang on.
it made me stop and tell myself ' No, I am not completely to blame and I am not responsible for her decisions in life'
It made me feel a little stronger
Posted By: rich4j Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/11/16 08:49 AM
Originally Posted By: keefa
No, I am not completely to blame and I am not responsible for her decisions in life'
It made me feel a little stronger




Keefa- I can tell you from only being on these boards a few months that many many stories are the same as yours or close to it.

A relationship involves 2 people so if someone wants to blame someone else 100% they are just sticking their head in the sand.

I was told I am the reason she is leaving me which I understand the areas I own but she refuses to see anything that helped enable some of my actions or lack thereof. 2 people....2 owners.

This time is a tough one for you. I had a personal meltdown last night envisioning moving out and leaving my great home , neighborhood, dogs and D and STBX.....its a loss. And we cant sweep it away overnight

All we can hope is to make sure we know that we are not the only reason this happened and to build, fix and repair yourself and maybe your R.

No magic dust as I would take some today if it was avaialble. Keep the faith...you will be fine
Posted By: Thornton Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/11/16 08:54 AM
^^^ That's good stuff, Rich.

I often catch myself beating myself up. "If only I would have done this, or if I wouldn't have done that".

The truth is, WAW has issues that only she can figure out. She too, blamed me for everything. When you hear that over and over again from the person you love, you can start to beleive it.

I was far from perfect, but I always tried to make amends. She would often hold onto her anger and use it as a weapon. She could hide behind it and not take any responsibility.

Now that we are NC, I wonder who she will point the finger at when something doesn't go her way.
Posted By: keefa Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/13/16 07:26 AM
Hi all,
Interesting few days.
Firstly, I went to parents evening on my own. Brilliant reports from both boys. When I saw my youngests teacher, she showed me his work book with a pic in it, there was his cheeky imp grin staring up at me. I broke into tears. The teacher was lovely and said its good to see pride but I explained that since her affair its been hard and she is denying access etc. Was proper crying. STBXW works at the school and of course it was a suprise to her colleagues. I didnt actually mean for it to all come out but it did. She ushered me into see the head and explained the sitch. The head said she would speak to STBXF ( She is STBXW's boss) I had a call later that eve asking if I could attend a meeting the next day.
I turned up. STBXF said she was in no way denying me access. I dug out my mobile and read the facts. I stood my ground. Told them it was unacceptable behavior and regardless of her feelings for me should in no way be using the boys like this. She again said she'd been amicable so out came the phone again and again read it how it was. STBXW claimed we wouldnt have been in this sitch if id have moved out all those months ago and we would have sorted it out. NO i replied because at that time you were seeing someone else. Head was not amused.
Anyway. net result. I have my boys with me allllllll weekend.
STBXW said she was happy I looked happy and thinks of me fondly. Yeah, I bet. Sadly, I don't. I think of her sometimes and how she has stolen everything from the house. Refused to even try and start to communicate, used the boys, lied, cheated and been everything I hate.
I have power in my heart now. I feel like tomorrow, when it comes, will be ok. I know I am going to have setbacks. Financially I am screwed at the moment but I have a bed a pc and a tv. My now is not my forever.
I have my boys now and will see them every week.
As far as stbxw is concerned. She has twice in 15 years apologised. She is never wrong. She is always right.
Something tells me DB might not have got my m back, but is has done precisely what it needed to and I will be continuing to follow it to the letter. I feel warm inside right now. The house is alive, messy, shoes everywhere. Toy soldiers all over the floor, sweet wrappers everywhere. Heaven.
Guys...keep the faith. it changed for me this weekend.
It will be bad, it will be good. but its gonna be ok.
Posted By: Tyler12 Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/13/16 07:57 AM
It's awesome you have your kids this weekend and will be seeing them weekly now! I will have all mine in a few hours and nothing clears the mind and fills the soul with happiness like your children.

Those soldiers on the floor are great now, wait until you step on one..... Haha
Posted By: Cadet Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/13/16 08:06 AM
Originally Posted By: keefa
Heaven.
Guys...keep the faith. it changed for me this weekend.
It will be bad, it will be good. but its gonna be ok.

Glad to hear of this.

Keep up the good work!
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/13/16 08:06 AM
Oh Keefa, it is so great to hear you talking like this! I am so glad that you have hung in here and fought that which was trying to consume you till you gave up on life. You are a perfect example how things in life can turn on a dime. I don't necessarily mean the M, but situations change, and now to hear this happiness in your post b/c you have your boys with you. It's good! So good!
Posted By: HopeRB Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/13/16 01:13 PM
Keefa, your words below are my thoughts exactly! There's something so humbling and grateful in them and that's all we can really say at the moment. Thank you for that.

"Financially I am screwed at the moment but I have a bed a pc and a tv. My now is not my forever. "
Posted By: Imlucky Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/13/16 01:48 PM
well done keefe

your right DB may not reconcile a marriage but it is a set of rules to make sure we come out on top regardless.

I'm happy you got the boys this weekend and the way you presented your case factually made you look reasonable and open

have fun and enjoy

brad
Posted By: broke Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/13/16 01:59 PM
So glad to hear you feeling better and spending time with your boys, keefa. It's a good lesson that you shared that db'ing may not get us the reconciliation we all want, but it will get us stronger for wherever life leads us.
Posted By: rd500 Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/13/16 02:13 PM
Fantastic news about getting the boys for the weekend Goes to show how life can change in a heart beat


Well done on the change of mindset

Take care. Rd
Posted By: keefa Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/15/16 10:32 AM
well, the inevitable always happens. Dropped boys off on time outside a supermarket as 'ordered'. I'd got my eldest a new phone sim card to use on an old phone I had so we could text and share pics etc. he was over the moon to have whatsapp etc. The last message I got was him in tears because it was taken away from him by her for absolutely no reason at all. She is also denying me access again this week and it is half term. I am utterly sickened that a so called good mother would use children as an emotional tool, take away their contact with their Daddy. I am so angry. so so angry. She didn't say hello or even look at me when I dropped the boys off. This is not a sane person I am dealing with. My L seem to be next to useless. All they do is relay stbx's demands and I seem to have to comply like a good little boy.
This [censored] so much. I'm not so down as I was but how can this be right. it is so frustrating and I i'm exasperated. She had the bloody affair, all I want is to see my children.
Posted By: brutus3 Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/15/16 10:39 AM
I guess I'm having a tough time understanding why you are being denied access to your boys. Is there a written agreement or judgement?
Posted By: broke Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/15/16 10:47 AM
Keefa,

That is awful that you are being denied access to your children. My H is the one that had the affair and he sees our sons 40-50% of the time. I feel like it would hurt my sons even more if they couldn't see their father. Even though I think he is a liar and a cheater, I think they have to have a relationship with their father in order to get through this in a healthier way. I am shocked that the L can't do more to help you. It just seems completely unfair to your sons. I am so sorry.
Posted By: keefa Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/15/16 11:38 AM
she is doing it because it gives her power and nothing more. I had an absolute fantastic weekend with my boys, I posted some facebook pics so my family abroad etc can be in on our activities. their infectious little smiles say it all. I can only imagine stbx is brooding over the amazing relationship I have with my boys.
Brutus3 There is no court order in place at the moment. She has made an offer of sat and half sunday every two weeks but this is simply not enough. My contact with my boys had up until her affair been daily and although I worked hard, I would always be there for breakfast or evening meal and always at home weekends. Saturday would be a chores and making things day, Sunday was always a family day out be it long county walks, zoo or what ever. Despite all this, I cannot understand why stbx has denied our eldest whatsapp..after all, its all there and recorded. She has done it out of spite and perhaps jealousy because the fact is that not only can I cope without her, I excel. My boys had a riot, ate correctly, had boundaries, manners, and so on but they had FUN. I am struggling again but in a different way. I feel useless. I want to shake my L into life...fight for me !
Man this is hard. It's like hundreds of battles all at once.
Posted By: Azzork Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/15/16 11:39 AM
well, the inevitable always happens. Dropped boys off on time outside a supermarket as 'ordered'. I'd got my eldest a new phone sim card to use on an old phone I had so we could text and share pics etc. he was over the moon to have whatsapp etc. The last message I got was him in tears because it was taken away from him by her for absolutely no reason at all.
Im not saying that this isnt true. But I know I felt a lot of injustice at 9 about things I didnt think were fair. Just take care not to go off on her based on the words of a 9 year old.

She is also denying me access again this week and it is half term.
Id like to understand this a bit more as Im not sure youve said. What exactly do you mean by "denying access"? For example, I have my kids 50%, but I cant just waltz over to get them when she has custody over them. Can you describe this a little more?

I am utterly sickened that a so called good mother would use children as an emotional tool, take away their contact with their Daddy. I am so angry. so so angry. She didn't say hello or even look at me when I dropped the boys off.
So what are you REALLY angry about? What does her not saying 'hello' to you have to do with the boys?

This is not a sane person I am dealing with.
Well. No. Clearly.

My L seem to be next to useless. All they do is relay stbx's demands and I seem to have to comply like a good little boy.
What do you mean 'have to'? What if you DONT comply?

This [censored] so much. I'm not so down as I was but how can this be right. it is so frustrating and I i'm exasperated. She had the bloody affair, all I want is to see my children.
I get it. But she has just as much right to them. I dont know, but it READS like you want the kids, but moreso, you want your FAMILY UNIT reconstructed.

I know for me, I was a 30-40% parent 100% of the time before BD. Now, I get to be a 90-100% parent 50% of the time. And if XW is doing that too, then I like to think the kids will be better off.

Yes, I miss having the family unit. I miss the kids when they arent with me. But that doesnt mean I cant make my time with them memorable.
Posted By: keefa Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/15/16 12:00 PM
Hey Azzork,
Well I like that you have raised those points but to clarify;
My 9 year old is upset that the lengths we went to so that we could communicate and stay in touch has been taken from him (fact) with out good reason (fact) and he does not understand why (fact) It is not costing her anything and there is nothing to be gained by denying access to communication with me. Homework questions, general questions and so on. It can all be seen my stbx if she so wished and nothing was hidden.

She is denying me access by saying if I want to have access I have to go through the courts and solicitors. She knows this takes time. She knows it is half term and by the time I get to court I would have missed the hols. I would never presume to 'waltz over' but lets spin this for a sec...When I was at work, she decimated the house, took everything including the boys and moved to another house without giving me the address. There are no reasons, drink, drugs, mistress, abuse or so on that she has to do this. Lets suppose I turn up after school, pick them up and move into a different house again...I would be doing exactly the same thing as she has but boy oh boy wouldn't it be viewed differently ! This makes me angry. We are BOTH parents.
If I were a deadbeat dad I could sort of understand.

I don't care if she says hello, ignores me or what ever but children watch and learn. If nothing else it is poor manners. I am civil and polite in front of the boys. So should she.

All my L seems to do is replay a message from her L about what I should and shouldn't do. ie. I had an instruction to ensure I set the alarm of the house she no longer lives in and to protect the remains of her belongings. I cannot change locks or deny her access. one of many...

Yes of course she has as much right to them as I but as she currently has them 99% of the time, but she has no right to dictate completely what happens. I am a parent too. I'm passed the wanting a family thing. She is not a person I recognise and I do not like her. but I do want to see my boys more than 1 and a half days every 2 weeks. They are 4 miles down the road. it is not unreasonable to want more than that is it ?
Posted By: ancient warrior Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/15/16 12:25 PM
Did you hire your attorney?

Maybe it's time to unhire them and find one that would work in your / boys interest?
Posted By: Azzork Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/15/16 12:29 PM
Hey Azzork,
Well I like that you have raised those points but to clarify;
My 9 year old is upset that the lengths we went to so that we could communicate and stay in touch has been taken from him (fact) with out good reason (fact) and he does not understand why (fact)
Your other two facts I can agree with you. But I dont think you can say that there was a good reason or not at this point. What you are calling "a basic access of communication" seems to be viewed by W as a privilege for your S. Im not saying thats right or wrong. But I would suggest this as something to discuss with your L and maybe W so that everyone can be on the same page. If this is something you did by yourself without discussing with her, it could be seen by her as something of a threat to her parenting abilities.

It is not costing her anything and there is nothing to be gained by denying access to communication with me. Homework questions, general questions and so on. It can all be seen my stbx if she so wished and nothing was hidden.
I dont think shes arguing about the contact. But if she says 'no' to something, Im sure S will be on the text coming to you to "come to his rescue" about stuff. Mind reading, but Im guessing that she feels this is undermining her parental skill and possibly ability to parent to have this kind of constant open communication pathway at this age.

She is denying me access by saying if I want to have access I have to go through the courts and solicitors. She knows this takes time.
Maybe I missed this, but my impression was that you were separated in home for a while. Where was the push at that time to protect yourself from this kind of situation?

She knows it is half term and by the time I get to court I would have missed the hols.
So what will you do to protect this for the next holiday?

I would never presume to 'waltz over' but lets spin this for a sec...When I was at work, she decimated the house, took everything including the boys and moved to another house without giving me the address.
What did the lawyers have to say about this? I can see that the stuff is not as big a deal as the kids. How is this legal, exactly?

There are no reasons, drink, drugs, mistress, abuse or so on that she has to do this.
...in your mind. Surely, she has some reasons. Some are probably related to you. Some are probably not.

Lets suppose I turn up after school, pick them up and move into a different house again...I would be doing exactly the same thing as she has but boy oh boy wouldn't it be viewed differently ! This makes me angry. We are BOTH parents.
Yeah. I get it. I wouldnt do this. But what does your L suggest?

If I were a deadbeat dad I could sort of understand.

I don't care if she says hello, ignores me or what ever but children watch and learn. If nothing else it is poor manners. I am civil and polite in front of the boys. So should she.
Yes. She should. But she isnt. Not much you can do about that. Just let go of your expectations.

All my L seems to do is replay a message from her L about what I should and shouldn't do. ie. I had an instruction to ensure I set the alarm of the house she no longer lives in and to protect the remains of her belongings. I cannot change locks or deny her access. one of many...
So, if you dont like this L, why are you with him/her?

Yes of course she has as much right to them as I but as she currently has them 99% of the time, but she has no right to dictate completely what happens. I am a parent too. I'm passed the wanting a family thing. She is not a person I recognise and I do not like her. but I do want to see my boys more than 1 and a half days every 2 weeks. They are 4 miles down the road. it is not unreasonable to want more than that is it ?
Of course it's reasonable. But sometimes, this can take time. But your L should be pushing for some kind of agreement. What is the status there?



I just want to be clear that Im on your side. I want whats best for you and your kids. In many of my points above, Im mpore challenging you to be empathetic vs. saying that you are wrong. I hope you understand that!
Posted By: keefa Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/16/16 02:51 AM
Devils advocate...
Yes, a mobile phone was something stbx and I had discussed. I had always assumed responsibility in our relationship for buying and sorting tech etc. And this was her suggestion a month or so ago. There is no ambiguity. It is a power thing. But lets look at the bigger picture. Whether she see's it a threat or not, she is denying me reasonable communication and contact. period.

No, during our separation, until the last month of living together (chrismas week aside) we had functioned as a family, taking days out together etc. We had historically always seen eye to eye on the kids and I cannot remember ever disagreeing on their upbringing. I never, not in a million years believed she would be causing me to fight to see them. I just didn't think it would happen. Many statements like ' you can see them when ever you like, you can always come over to do baths etc' So yes I am behind on my 'legal' fight to have access. Yes my fault for accepting what was said.

To be frank, I find it slightly offensive to suggest that SHE has any reasons I cannot see my children. I am of course defensive on this but I know I am and always have been a good father. There is NO reason I should be denied access. none. If she doesn't want me, wants out, then ok. But I do not level with it being her choice if the children do or do not see their father.
If she is bitter or resentful because I am GAL then it would make sense to me. I do not know if this is the case but it sure feels like it. She has nothing on me in that sense. I cook, play, act happy, build, fix, clean and so on and she knows it. The only thing she has on me is power over my access to the children. This is being played out in a text book manner.

I have no expectations of her behaviour but I am still allowed to feel emotions when she behaves in a certain way towards me and the effect it might have on our childrem just as I would feel emotions if a stranger let the door close in my face.

I am seeing my L tomorrow morning and yes I have a long list of points to raise including holidays, access, contact and so on.
My L does not seem to be pushing for anything. I cannot afford to change so I am having to make the best of what I have.

I welcome being challenged Azzork and thank you for taking the time to do so. I have tried to be open and honest with how I feel and the position I am in. Please accept that I am ion no way offended by anything written here and I hope my sitch proves helpful to others as well as myself.

I've not heard from stbx, her L or my L regarding access this week during half term. Meeting tomorrow. I will continue to fight.
Posted By: keefa Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/18/16 12:31 PM
Incredibly tough few days. Thought I would check in.
L meeting went well. but ex is still denying me access to children. Apparently a post I put on facebook (regarding fathers for justice) was derogatory and she is claiming it goes towards demonstrating my emotional instability. My L has asked why, when ex has blocked me, is she searching out my profile, and also questions what emotional stability should a husband and father have when confronted with the actions demonstrated.
However, a lesson here, as much as I wanted to vent, she is still looking at my posts etc. I've taken anything remotely related down but hope we all learn from my mistake here. The comment wasn't derogatory but was an opinion and expressed as one. Sadly she has a L who is very young and my ex cannot see she is purposely running up the hours and trying to be a big shot.
I have been told I may not see my children for another 4 - 5 weeks until the court has my hearing. It is very very sad that it has come to this. I honestly feel that because I GAL it has hurt ex somewhat and this is her last card.
I am doing everything by the book and although it hurts like hell right now, I have faith in my L and the system.
I am lonely right now, I am watching but not watching tv. I must have vacuumed a hundred times today. I'm feeling low. I miss my boys so much and the anger and contempt I feel is eating me.
Posted By: Thornton Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/18/16 12:46 PM
Sorry about the recent happenings, Keefa.

Your W is on a mission right now. She seems so full of hate and rage.

I wouldn't trust her AT ALL right now. I think your best course of action is to lay low.

Why cant you see your kids for 4-5 weeks? That makes no sense to me.

In the meantime, are there any support groups around you? DivorceCare? I think it would be good to surround yourself with people right now if you can.
Posted By: keefa Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/18/16 02:03 PM
Thanks thornton,
Its simply because of the length of time it takes to obtain a consent order and the fact that she has a very unreasonable L who is hell bent on causing as much difficulty as possible without seeing the bigger picture. I also think that because ex was embarrassed at the school meeting and the fact I had such a great weekend with my boys has added to her determination to try and hurt me as much as possible. I've said this before, it is almost like she came home and caught me in bed with the milkman or something. I have spoken at length about Psychological projection and it certainly fits but this is done purely out of personal interest and my own growth. It is fascinating though !
I am lying low but continue to fight the bigger fight without resorting to the little petty squabbles. Its hard not to want to score points but at the end of the day, I want the judge to see a reasonable man, mature enough to let the crap slide but who continues to fight for a fair solution. this ironically is itself me GAL and being the man I want to be. My own projection. I have grown exponentially these last few weeks. Today, i stopped and helped an elderly gent down the stairs of the bank. Nothing unusual there as I would have always have done this. But today, I stopped for a minute, made sure he was ok, asked him if he needed anything, had a brief chat and a chuckle and received a genuine heartfelt smile. Despite the fight inside me, this made me feel good and gave me a little reassurance I am on the right path to being the me I want to be. I keep telling myself, my now is not my forever.
Posted By: Thornton Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/18/16 02:16 PM
That's awesome, Keefa. Keep that image of the guy you want to be in your mind and take steps every day towards your goal.

Has your wife always been angry? She almost sounds Borderline Personality to me?
Posted By: keefa Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/19/16 03:56 AM
well, she lost her mum when she was a toddler, her dad ( died 12 years ago) was a very crusty chap who didn't have her until he was 65. She was looked after but not shown family love and warmth. Ironically, my family took her in and treated her as a daughter not a daughter in law. Sadly, her personality is one that is never wrong. Even now, with me fighting tooth and nail to see my children, she is digging in and making me go the whole hog, and get a court order. Mt L has sat me down a few times, kept me calm and told me it is the long game, let her fight all the petty stuff, but the bigger picture is for me to get good access and be a genuinely co-parent. She is not an angry person, sometimes I wished we could have had a good argument. Her style was always cold and moody ( something I later learned was passive aggressive) would go ghost and so on. I always wondered what I had done wrong, what wasn't I doing enough of, showing affection that was always one way, re-writing our history and so on and so on until working at it was slowly killing me.
It is my absolute grief that,(not seeeing my children aside) ...I am probably better off as a person out of the relationship. However, I am bitterly disappointed I could not find a way to show her that the relationship 'could' have been worked on, all we had to do was find the help. She would not go to any counseling or therapy as she would never admit she was wrong. I went to over 30 sessions on my own.
It is what is is I guess. I can't change her, but I always thought I would be the lighthouse....
Posted By: rd500 Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/19/16 05:14 AM
Hi Keefa. You can still be the lighthouse. A lot of what you post is coming from what your feeling right now and that's fine but at the same time you need to let the feelings settle before any action is taken

Your Ws actions re the kids visitation seems very strange to me and I can't see why a L would advise her that this is a good course for her to take. IMHO any court will at best frown on her behaviour and see it a detrimental to the children

The feelings of why W would t work on it are ones we all have but I see it as their minds are made up and closed to the idea so Moses could appear to them and they would t listen

Time is all important , time for you to understand your real feeling , time for W to see her new reality and time for you both to heal and move forward

For a newcomer you seem to have a handle on the stitch most times which shows you will cope and then prosper whatever happens

Ipostitve thoughts heading your way for you and the kids

Take care , Rd
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/19/16 05:30 AM
Some WW's who have excessive anger toward their LBH'S will hit them where it hurts the worse.........through his children. Maybe you need a lawyer who will fight for father's rights.
Posted By: keefa Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/19/16 06:50 AM
thanks guys,
Yes my L is fighting hard for my rights and yes my L has assured me ( although extremely hard at the moment) that she is of course making her own case look exceptionally ugly in the courts view. Her L is very young and we don't think ever been to court, mine is an old hand and a human rights barrister also and spends all week at court. We are fighting for a fair solution in the best interests of my boys, not squabbling over who has them for friday evening. It is so so tough waiting it out especially as I took time off work to be with them on their half term which has been denied by ex ( she has no right at all to do this) so have been bouncing around at home and its getting to me. In a funny way, it feels like a line has been crossed. Using children like this makes her the sort of person I would have nothing to do with, period.
It is so so sad that being a good husband, provider, father and person still leaves it all vulnerable to being taken away
I am hating her more ans more. I've never hated anyone in my life. The thoughts i have about karma are bad but I seem to be placing alot of faith in Karma at the moment. Sometimes it is hard to be a better person when all this is going on around me. I'm going to take my dog for a long walk to try and clear my head.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/20/16 11:10 AM
Sounds as if you have a good lawyer. Hope so.

These emotions you have, seem typical for most LBH's. Probably doesn't help knowing this, except to realize you are normal in having these feelings.
Posted By: keefa Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/20/16 11:22 AM
Thanks Sandi, it kinda helps but I sometimes feel so guilty hoping karma will take a bite out of her. It feels like I am being dictated to left right and centre and I am expected to shut up, put up and be a good boy for her. But I know this is to show the kind of person I am.
Odd day today, had a text early from ex. I was meant to have my boys 2 til 5 but she said why don't I have them 1 til 6. This was monumental as she NEVER does this kind of thing. Had a brilliant afternoon with my boys doing nothing much bar tearing around the house, playing zombies, scalextrix and so on.
Cooked them dinner which they loved. Very brief conversation with ex at pick up, She wants all their clothes at her house. I have said this is unreasonable and told her again tonight that I am keeping their coats at my house as they have many coats at hers. Not gone down well but I'm doing the right thing. trivial I know but small things.
Posted By: Thornton Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/20/16 01:56 PM
Congrats on the good day, Keefa.

Keep being an awesome role model for the fellas, they are watching.
Posted By: keefa Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/21/16 03:02 PM
Hey guys,
Really hard day today. Having my boys yesterday brought the house alive and today it took a dive. Been keeping myself as busy as tiredness allows but i'm having the same night time dreams and day dreams, and it is always me confronting ex in some way. 'How could you do this to us, I loved you ! ' etc
Today has been surreal. I keep expecting her car to pull up on the gravel drive and to hear the boys running in. it is weird. I wonder if anyone else has that ' is this really happening' days ? The only thing I can liken it to is an amputee still feeling a lost limb.
i'm in limbo at the moment, caught between fighting to see my boys, pressing on with the financial settlement (in UK is a Form 'E'), trying to juggle the continuous demands and debts and trying to protect whats left of the home. (in UK I cannot change locks or prevent her from accessing the home so she could technically come in and take everything that's left.)
It is compounding my contempt and hatred at the moment but I cannot help but wonder if this stranger I once knew as my wife is temporary or is it just the new her ? we all change, this is who she is now. Did I turn her into this person ? Was I not doing enough ? I find it hard to level with how utterly different this person who looks like my ex wife is.
I sent an envelope back with my boys gear, it was stuffed with all the silly little love notes and doodles from our last 15 years. I wrote on the envelope..
'i didn't have the heart to throw this away (yep I kept them all) but am sure you will do something with it'

I'm not sure if giving her my last relatiopnship connection with her is detachment or not but that's it. Nothing of her remains in the house. There are of course reminders but no books, DVDs, pictures, photos etc remain. Just me and my boys.
It's a very very odd feeling. ex and I right now have an overly polite very short communication regarding access to the boys and that is it.
Thoughts like...
'nothing is forever' keep crossing my mind, reflecting of course on the fact the marriage didn't last. But then if nothing is forever, I guess this too really will pass.
I'd sure as hell like to know how long it will last as it is getting tougher and tougher to fake it til I make it.
I live in hope that reality will hit her, but what then ?
I don't want a r with her anymore. does that mean I didn't believe in my M if it only takes 8 months to fall out of love ? am I broken too ?
Posted By: WillDo Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/21/16 03:13 PM
Hang in there. There is always light at the end of the tunnel.
Posted By: rich4j Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/22/16 11:51 AM
Originally Posted By: keefa
Hey guys,

I don't want a r with her anymore. does that mean I didn't believe in my M if it only takes 8 months to fall out of love ? am I broken too ?


Keefa- are you saying you woudnlt reconcile or want anything with her if she came back? I am assuming you would not at this point.

I ask becasue NOOOOO you are not broken. You are hurt, resentful and probably angry. How do you love someone who do this ?

I am in the same boat with you except I am the one who has to move out most likely to keep the peace once the L get their act together. I can't even think about R.....not after some of the things said and how I feel.

When someone hurts you there is a defense mechanism and you can't fault yourself and think you are broken because of what she did

It will be lonely now and then & it is one of my big fears too. Gets you thinking when you are lonely and not good things...keep busy
Posted By: keefa Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/22/16 02:26 PM
Hi Guys,

I dont even know the person my ex is let alone want a relationship with her. I feel so so sad that it ended the way it did, and that all there were, was lie after lie after lie. She has told her boss ( headmistress) all about the atmosphere at home and child services were called to assess the boys well being. Turns out the biggest upset to them is not seeing me, and her constant lying which my eldest has picked up on. I am wondering if I should write to the head and give her my perspective so she can understand the boys position better.
I do not like the person my ex is. Nor do any of my friends and family who know/knew her. I want my wife back. If I had THAT chance I would take it in a heartbeat. I want to be loved not lied to. I want to trust not live in fear of deceit. My Ex was never wrong. I do not believe remorse is something she is capable of and therefore a R would never happen. I guess I am better off out of the relationship but I wanted to at least try. We did after all rub along nicely for nearly 15 years. I could never trust her unless she was truly sorry. I do not think that would ever ever happen. This also makes me so so sad.
Posted By: rich4j Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/22/16 08:55 PM
Keefa

I know its tough and I sense you continue to go back n forth a bit thinking she could truly be sorry and that you really want the "real wife" back....

Do you keep a daily log of your interactions with her in relations to your kids? I would document everything day by day no matter how you have to do it. It will go a long way if she is not being the mother she needs to be and you need to fight for your children.

Your kids will pick up on things and realize what is going on expecially if she is lying and saying things she should not

Focus on being the best dad you can be and things will fall into place for you. Its all we can do for now right?
Posted By: keefa Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/25/16 02:33 AM
Hi All,

Been a tough few days. Had my first text interaction with ex yesterday. After spending 2 weeks fighting (and failing) to see my boys over half term, she has asked if my eldest can go to a party that happens to fall on my weekend with them.
We do not have an agreement on access, it is being brought to court. There is just a dictation from ex and her L as to when I can see them. This makes me so angry because it is such a familiar feeling, that being anything me ex wanted to happen, became 'right' in her head. Stories, memories, anything like that would always be made to fit into her version. This is so clear now there is distance and NC. Its happened my whole relationship, not just during the break up.

Has anyone seen the Will Smith film, 'I am legend' ?
It feels very similar at the moment. Living on auto pilot, isolation, GAL for the sake of keeping to the rules on here but to be honest, I am a spectator of my own life at the moment.
I'm tired of feeling sad, I mean really deep down so sad.
Not depression just gutted.
I had this thought, the stages of loss we all go through, anger, grief, and so on... I don't think we go through them..I think they spin round in turn. They start off fast skipping from one to the other very quickly, then each emotion seems to intensify, stretch out and take longer to revolve round to the next, a bit like a game of chance spinning wheel.

We are nearing the weekend and I still do not know when I will see my boys. My eldest is 10 next week. I imagine I will be kept at arms length for his birthday too. I am hanging on, but it feels like with just 2 fingers on one hand....
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/25/16 04:59 AM
There use to be another LBH who had two daughters. His ex would schedule something for the girls on his time on a regular basis. He had to let her know that whenever she signed the girls up for any type of activity, it had to be on her time. She could not obligate them when he was scheduled to have the kids.

This is why a father almost has to have some type of legal agreement about the scheduled time with the children. The WW will continue to control his time with them. Your WW has been cruel and punitive. I hope you get something legal working in your favor, soon. ((Keefa))
Posted By: keefa Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/26/16 10:27 AM
Hey all,

Here's a question. in UK on 6th March its Mothers Day.
traditionally I've always made breakfast in bed, fresh colourful flowers, choc croissants and cards and gifts from my boys.

What do I do this year ? What is considered do'able within detachment ?
Do I do nothing but if the boys want to make her something help, after all she chose to leave and if I am the one doing it all is it a bit transparent as its obviously from me and not the boys ?
Do I buy a card from them ?

Really unsure on this...Any thoughts ?
Posted By: Thornton Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/26/16 10:29 AM
I think you should help the boys get or make something for their mom. But nothing to W from you.
Posted By: keefa Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/26/16 10:31 AM
That is my instinct But it will still obviously be from me and show I have thought about her....
Posted By: Thornton Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/26/16 10:33 AM
Yeah, just don't go over the top. It's Mother's Day, so it's really about the boys doing something for their mom.
Posted By: keefa Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/26/16 10:52 AM
I agree that it's about the boys doing something for their Mum, but they won't without me either buying a card or helping them make one, they probably wont even realise its Mothers day..... so it becomes ME doing something for their Mum which I don't want to do...
Posted By: rd500 Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/26/16 12:36 PM
Hi Keefa. You seem to be hanging onto this. IMHO you help your boys and that's that. Don't buy anything just help them make something like a card

It's not a big deal. Your over thinking it Right now your W really doesn't care if you help the boys or not

Take care. Rd
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/29/16 11:03 AM
Give the boys paper and markers/colors and tell them to each make up their own card for Mother's Day. Tell them to trace their hands on paper and put their name and date on it. They can make a fan out of paper, or things along those lines. Let them be creative. You can even put a little snapshot of them on their project or card. Mothers will keep things the kids make for them (especially with their name and date of it). Let them fix something for her breakfast (a bowl of cold cereal, toast, or something microwavable) and let them take it in to her, while you stay out of it (except any supervision they need. Let it appear that a couple of little boys did everything on their own, and she'll love it. These type of memories are usually more precious than some store bought gift.
Posted By: keefa Re: Inevitable always happens - 03/01/16 02:37 AM
Hi all, thanks for the pointers.
Sadly Sandi2, When ex moved out, she took almost everything. First thing she went for were the financial files, computer, anything personal, even garden ornaments. One of the few things she left were baby memory boxes. All of them, right from new borns, first day at school, first clay models and so on. These were opened and moved into a different room when she moved out so I know were not just missed. I've often reflected on this and how terribly sad it would feel for me to have the priorities she appears to have. it makes me feel warn knowing if it were reversed, what she chose to leave would be the first thing I would take.
I actually ended up doing pretty much what you suggested. I let the boys loose with card and glue and ended up with a messy card that was all their own work. I made sure it went back with them when I dropped them off on Sunday and that is as much as I will do. I thought about flowers as I had always done this on Mothers day but have binned that idea completely. I still feel like I want to do something 'nice' for her. But she is not nice.

She looked haggered, tired, almost ill. But her actions seem be happy that she is divorcing me, it feels fake but I know she will never ever back down and will always believe firmly in what she wants to believe.
This brings quite an odd feeling.
It makes me wonder again about myself. I have difficulty understanding and keep asking myself, 'I wasn't that bad was I?'
Can't seem to shake these feelings. I also feel like I have an abundance of love. When I had the boys over the weekend, there was such an amazing connection or bond between us. I felt happy and content with them and had so much fun. It always leaves me wondering how the hell all this happened.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: Inevitable always happens - 03/01/16 04:17 AM
No, you weren't that bad. Do not believe the lie your W gives for ending the M. Refuse to claim what you know was none of your doing.

I think people who struggle with low self esteem, or who are natural people pleasers, are sensitive to being blamed or criticized. I remember when my H told me I was hypersensitive (especially to his family) and I would let something they said nearly make me sick. I was working so hard to win their approval that it would kill me whenever I heard something critical was said about me. Then, I would get angry and take it out on my H. Crazy!

I said all of that just to let you know that although I was the WS, my heart goes out to you about these painful things that are said or implied. I know a WS can be cruel. You know the true marital history. You know what part you did, and take responsibility. However, you can see through the blame game and realize that this is her method of getting out without being labeled the bad guy. If she can make you, and anyone else, believe it is all your fault, then she feels they will believe she has justifiable cause to leave you.

People who really know you will not buy in to her lies. It seems so common these days that I think a lot of society just marks it off as the spouse spewing to win favoritism and to recruit friends to be in her corner. There may be some who will side with her, but certainly not everyone.

If you continue working on yourself in these sensitive areas, I believe you will get stronger and can let go of something nasty things that have been said. It's those deep issues we have that really needs the work. The outward change is not as difficult as those matters that are known mostly just to ourselves.

I know you are going through a painful time, however, you sound stronger. And, that makes me feel good about you. smile
Posted By: keefa Re: Inevitable always happens - 03/06/16 03:09 PM
Hi Guys, Want to share this. Feel very odd and not sure how to deal with my emotions...could use some help.

Been managing to keep myself busy. Have seem my boys a little more, saw eldest on his 10th birthday and have managed to re-furniture my house and am living fairly comfortably all be it sinking in debt. Am running more, eating better, sleeping better and seeing my boys more. I Had up until this evening a real belief that yep I can do this.
Early this evening I got a text from my sister. My stbxw is on a very popular dating site. I looked and yes sure enough there she is.
I know its my own fault but Christ this hurts. how many kicks in the nuts does it take before its done ? I am feeling very cut up by what I saw. I guess it really is written in caps, bold, underlined and highlighted. I simply wasn't enough for her. why else would she be doing this? I feel weak again. I understand the practicalities of divorce, the logistics of shared parenting, the legal process, the feelings of hurt and betrayal. What I cannot understand is why. What the hell did I do that was so bad that she had to get out of the marriage this fast ? I just don't understand. I get the WAW being in the affair fog etc but this is different. She is actively looking to date. 8 months since ilybinilwy. 1 month since moving out. this is so odd. It really can only mean the whole thing was a sham. I feel so confused again.
Posted By: Thornton Re: Inevitable always happens - 03/06/16 03:21 PM
I remember when I saw my ex-wife's profile(not the W I am currently trying to DB).

It gutted me. But that pain pushed me into a new level of detachment. I realized that she TRULY wasn't the person I married. That person was dead to me.

Feel the sting, Keefa. Because you will start to detach from this. Don't look at that sh!t anymore. She will do what she wants to do. And do you really want someone like that?

Funny thing happened with my ex-wife. Once I let go, started dating again, she pursued me like CRAZY! Even threatened suicide if I didn't come back. Too late, I was detached and quite honestly, disgusted with her.

I know I could still have her back to this day. A simple phone call to her and I could have her back. But that's the last thing I would ever want.

Detach, Keefa. One foot in front of the other. You will be happy again.
Posted By: keefa Re: Inevitable always happens - 03/07/16 07:09 AM
Thanks Thornton. I appreciate what you are saying but it looks as though she wanted the hell out as quickly as possible.
I'm not feeling too down at the moment as some of the momentum from the last weeks GAL are still carrying me but I am feeling so many emotions.
It feels like she is being unfaithful over and over again even though it is clearly over. I can't help think about why she didn't even try to save our marriage, it makes my whole relationship less meaningful and belittles the 'us' I thought we were. This is what I am really struggling to come to terms with. It must have been a sham or a lie. I'm thinking about joining a workshop. Maybe some people just work through this stuff quicker than I ever imagined. My friend says its probably her way of GAL.
I am trying not to care and to detach but the truth is I care, I miss my wife. I loved her and just because she's gone, I just can't stop loving the wife I remember. It is scrambling my head if i'm honest.
Posted By: Thornton Re: Inevitable always happens - 03/07/16 07:17 AM
She's trying to fill a void, Keefa. She has a hole in her heart as well.

Some people jump right into other relationships, they are called rebounds for a reason. But if she hasn't done the work on herself to fix the things that are broken, she will carry these same issues into her next R.

Some people turn to drugs and alcohol, some start working 80 work weeks, some people gamble, some people hop from one R to the next.

Focus on you. And fixing yourself so that when/if W comes back around, you are healthy and strong. If she doesn't come back around, you will be healthy enough to start with someone new.
Posted By: mahhhty Re: Inevitable always happens - 03/07/16 08:54 AM
It is probable that she isn't comfortable alone and believes replacing you will pass the time better than dealing with her.

The fact that she isn't in a R is good. You need to employ all Sandi's Rules (Look Good, Act Happy, Act As if you have moved on, as if things have changed, be confident and charismatic). It is these things that will help you. Talking about feelings, justifications, reasonings... none of that will do any good.

If you don't mind me asking. Why don't you have the boys 50/50 custody?
Posted By: keefa Re: Inevitable always happens - 03/07/16 09:52 AM
I am going for 50/50 but until court date, she has the power and is using it to 'control'. sadly, my solicitor said it would happen. (I defended her when told this, I defended her when my friends told me it was likely she was having an affair, I've always been proud of her until these last few months) I dislike immensely the new person she has become.

At the moment am following my legal advice, biting my tongue, being nothing but polite and professional and seeing the boys when I can (i.e when she decides she has a date I guess) until the courts put it right. But I am seeing them more and more at the moment, which is the most important thing. I thought our relationship was so so close to R a couple of times, especially over Christmas, but I now feel this was me stretching all the way over to her and not finding any common ground. She has not cried, she has not shown any remorse or sadness, it is almost robot like or mechanical how she has gone about things, denying access included. I've said this before but it is like she came home and found ME in bed with another man or something. It is so odd. She has been gone a month and a person can do a lot of thinking in that time. I honestly feel and believe she didn't love me. Liked me perhaps but not love. I have my faults but it seems the whole thing is blamed fully on me and not her affair. because I would not accept the affair or tolerate the behaviour that goes with it, the relationship became toxic and this is her way of punishing me.
'This would have all been sorted out if you'd have moved out when I said' etc is all I got.
I stayed for my boys and will carry on fighting to get a fair solution.
Posted By: mahhhty Re: Inevitable always happens - 03/07/16 10:40 AM
You have to keep biting your tongue. Continue to go through Legal Representation so that you don't have to be fighting her.

She is lost. She is not the woman you married. All you can do is act as if. Be confident and strong. That is THE only way.

When her selfishness shakes and the mirrors begin to fall she will be back. But you have got to be the Confident Strong person she meet a long time ago.
Posted By: rich4j Re: Inevitable always happens - 03/07/16 07:00 PM
Originally Posted By: keefa

'This would have all been sorted out if you'd have moved out when I said' etc is all I got.
I stayed for my boys and will carry on fighting to get a fair solution.



Keefa
keep the faith! I have been gone for a bit as I needed to focus focus focus thru another rough ride and have been trying to find places to live which is #1 focus

It is amazing to hear some of the same things being said by some our former significant others (W/H). My STBX said the EXACT SAME thing....that I should have moved out and the sitch could have been different
Now its toxic. And I keep fighting for my D.....

The R may be gone but you have your boys and will find your way over time!
Posted By: keefa Re: Inevitable always happens - 03/09/16 04:23 AM
Here is my thought for the day that I thought would be nice to share. It's an equation..

What I want What will always be
what I hoped for What I can do
What like Does not equal How I can live
What I dreamed of How I can love
What I felt safe with How I can feel
Posted By: keefa Re: Inevitable always happens - 03/09/16 04:34 AM
Had a real eureka moment last night. Heating now connected again and I have warmth ! I have food in the house. My pooch lying (snoring) next to me. Seeing my boys at the weekend. Am killing it at work. Am running 5k under 30 mins. Rugby is on this weekend, I've been asked out for a curry tomorrow and I am not sure I care that much that ex is on the dating sites..odd feeling.
My then was not my forever. My now is not my forever.
The pain of losing my wife is still extraordinarily strong, but I am learning to deal with it in a way that I feel I am truly GAL and not just faking it.
Has anyone else got to this point ? I know I will have more downs, loosing the house is the next biggie but I have faith in myself at the moment. I feel a bit guilty for feeling like this ? Shouldn't I be sad still, am I moving on to fast ? Have I or am I dealing with my emotions fully ? Or am I just getting better at GAL ? Just wanted to share this. If I were asked 5 weeks ago, I'd have told anyone I was done and would never get over this, now I think...you know what, I might just be ok...I might even smile today !
Posted By: Thornton Re: Inevitable always happens - 03/09/16 07:25 AM
Don't feel guilty at all, Keefa!

Codependents frequently feel this way when they start to take care of themselves. They feel guilty for feeling detached. I feel the same way. It's so backwards.

You are still on the roller coaster so you can still expect down days, but fear them, because you are gaining new tools and will be able to cope much better.

Smile away, my man!
Posted By: Thornton Re: Inevitable always happens - 03/09/16 07:25 AM
**but don't fear them
Posted By: rich4j Re: Inevitable always happens - 03/09/16 09:38 AM
Originally Posted By: keefa

Has anyone else got to this point ?


Yes. Keefa...I am there

I have my ups and downs but with my sitch being in the same house going thru the D has made life toxic and our interactions

It has brought to life some of the things of why I ran for cover and recoiled during our tougher times.

I now look forward to getting out of here and the weekends and doing things that have no relationship to the relationship and people she knew and what we did togther. And to having my own place

Just haven't had the daughter talk yet until we are settled on what this looks like
Keep up the GAL'ing !
Posted By: broke Re: Inevitable always happens - 03/09/16 09:53 AM
Keefa,

I don't think you should feel guilty. The way I look at it is if you can look yourself (and kids) in the eye and say you feel comfortable with how you handled yourself and did everything you felt you could to save your R, then you should feel free. I am sure you will continue to have your highs and lows, but, hopefully the lows will be fewer and not as low. I look forward to being there with you some day…..keep us posted. I hope you feeling truly detached continues and you feel "free".
Posted By: CWOL Re: Inevitable always happens - 03/09/16 10:01 AM
Keefa,
Hang in there, you will pull through. You are a few weeks ahead of me in the WW curve, be strong! I've started to experience a lot of the ugliness you faced already.

PS: The timeline in your sig confuses me a bit, you're using European date convention right? Do you mean: W,S5 S9 moved out 5/2/16
Posted By: keefa Re: Inevitable always happens - 03/09/16 10:54 AM
Thanks CWOL, Adjusted my sig too. oops.
Its been a month since she moved out. It has been weird to say the least. The manner in which she did it was underhand, deceitful, purposely hurtful and quite brutal.
I kinda liken the feeling i have now to the very rare times in the past where the boys and my then wife had gone out to say a party and they didn't arrive home at the time I thought they would, house to myself, not ever being concerned as such as boys leaving parties always takes time finding shoes etc
but that period of quiet when it was approaching when they should be home is how it feels now and how its felt this last month, a funny sort of expecting feeling, to hear her car come up the drive and the door to bang open like only kids can do.
The ugliness is starting to fade a little for me, I am pretty sure stbx had put in max effort to shield herself from me telling her friends etc about her affair. She has no family, and the friends she has are fairly new i.e since school started. They are mostly gossip hunters and all of course experts in relationships. She also wanted (and tried without my knowledge) to put the house up for sale to release the cash immediately. My L has said 'well, we'll just see about that' and this has also caused her to become uglier. I'm no longer bothered and don't really care what she says or does. I don't really worry if her superficial friends know the truth or not. I'm too busy GAL :o)
Posted By: TimR Re: Inevitable always happens - 03/09/16 11:27 AM
Hey Keefa, yeah the ugliness is one of the worst symptoms of the WW. Seems its the same no matter what side of the pond you are on and the script must have been translated to more languages than the Bible. From my experience if you do not allow WW to walk all over you, however she wants and whenever she wants she will try and find the one thing that she believes can best get at you and use it to hurt you.

Sorry you are going through this, but I am right there with you and my WW as well as 1313's are really, really, ugly.
Posted By: CWOL Re: Inevitable always happens - 03/09/16 11:43 AM
Have you figured out if there's an OM involved? In my WW's case, he's the one that was coaching her moves and instigated this whole disaster. When I confronted her about her EA, she immediately launched into the WW script of we can be friends, I fell out of love, let's not make this ugly, etc. I know DB discourages exposure, but in my case I think I did the right thing to set the record straight with our friends and family.

My WW is not a confident person. She second guesses herself about everything. It takes her half an hour to write a thank you note, and she wants me to proofread it! She has a lawyer just like yours, who likes to run up the bills, run to court for every little thing. It's terrible.

My WW questions every little thing I do, even though it is in everyone's best interest (except the lawyers, of course) to minimize the L bills. She is being spoon-fed bad legal advice and I explained to her, in the end it will cost her assets as well, which ends up being our son's college fund. She doesn't have a good understanding of the legal or financial system so she questions and doubts everything I say.

I am still hoping for reconciliation but it is very hard to see your former best friend scheming against you constantly. I am sure you know what I mean!

I've had sleepless nights ever since D-day. I have questioned everything about myself and my life just like you have. Hang in there and we will get through this!
Posted By: keefa Re: Inevitable always happens - 03/09/16 03:23 PM
Yep almost identical !
Yes there was OM but I guess that's blown out now as she is on dating websites. I honestly think about it during the day but it bothers me about as much as a nettle sting.
Yep had the we can be friends. She was shocked when we sat in our one and only mediation session back in August (she wouldn't go to any more as it was made clear she wasn't going to get the D all her own way) she speculated on spending the next few Christmases as a family on Christmas day and how we can all be friends.
I looked at her straight and asked her if she would be ok if I brought my girlfriend too as I imagined in 14 or 15 months time that it would be likely i'd have met someone. She was shocked. It made me realize she just couldn't see what was happening all around her. I don't think she can even now.
She was also not that confident except in the small circle she has found herself in comprised of pure gossip mongers and school gate politics. Its made her popular to her face but talked about. These are people we (she) chose NOT to socialise with for some years but now they are best friends. Odd.
I had a meeting with the head mistress at the school after i attended a parents evening and described that I was being denied access. The head and the boys teachers were shocked I referred to her affair as they had only had just one story of course. I never intentionally went for exposure but I did act to put a stop to slander. I think she was scared about her reputation and what i would do to expose it all but I've done nothing. As you say, former best friend. The person I see now is nothing like the person I knew. My L however is an incredible man, wise, calm, and keeps me grounded. He has his sights on the bigger picture, ie custody and finances.He is always calm, doesn't rise to the other L's games and doesn't let me get involved in pettiness which is a real blessing. I remain Calm, polite, professional and courteous, always on time, always do what I say I will do. This is for me and my boys and no one else.
I've no doubt stbxw will regret things in the future but she has arrogance in abundance and that will see her through to her new life and not let her imagine for a second that she has done anything wrong.
Posted By: CWOL Re: Inevitable always happens - 03/09/16 03:41 PM
I think we are DB twins, lol.
For my WW, there's no chance that she will get together with her XBF, he's on another continent and he told her "I can't leave my family obligations here." (I was able to "hear" their conversations). I think it's the same as your WW, they're weak to others but they want to "show" us how strong they are, for their pride and the imaginary "abuse" they took from us during the marriage.
My exposure of her EA blew that to shreds. She couldn't use her story about us not being compatible, she was miserable, etc. when I showed people she reconnected with OM 9 years ago! Her arguments didn't have a leg to stand on. But now she persists in her actions because she has to show people that our M was so bad she has to leave. Nevermind blowing up everything I've worked for for 20 years and making both me and my S miserable. (And I'm sure herself too!)
It's so unnecessary but I don't see a way out of it. I wish I have a time machine so I can just fast forward to see the ending first. We are stuck in this purgatory while our WW figure out what they want to do in life. This part is what I really hate. It is very unfair that I am the faithful spouse yet she can spew all this venom and hate on me and my son and destroy our family. With seemingly little repercussion.
Posted By: keefa Re: Inevitable always happens - 03/10/16 09:51 AM
I think we are ! Isn't it mind blowing how the same things occur like they do !
How is your WW treating you now ? Mine is friendly ish but we only communicate strictly kids only. She won't say hello or look at me when I pick up and drop off, but I always make sure I look my best and am all smiles and positives.
I have nothing to do with any of her supporters and she has no family so she is isolated in her own little world. I have thought about her dating today, It has bothered me a little but not as much as I thought. I am thinking about it myself. Its been almost 2 years since I had any intimacy but if I did date, that would kill any chance of R, but I don't want a R with her any more, I don't like her at all. I wanted my old wife back..which is never gonna happen in my lifetime (!), so why am I bothered ? Why can't I date ? I gave my all to save my M and it wasn't enough..is that me trying to justify myself ? How long do I give it ? Till Decree absolute is through? I just don't know.
Man it is confusing !
Posted By: broke Re: Inevitable always happens - 03/10/16 10:03 AM
CWOL and Keefa,

Isn't amazing that the WAS's sometimes do and say the same things?! My H told me that he and the OW realize that "relationships that start like theirs have a low rate of success". Yet, two families and marriages were destroyed when they got together even though it is very unlikely they will end up together! So, I agree with CWOL, my H has to follow through on the divorce to prove our marriage was a mess even without the affair. I think it is a matter of "saving face" or credibility.

I am also feeling a little like Keefa today - why in the world do I want this man back? After 25 years together, he had an affair, lied to me and the kids about it, got caught and wasn't remorseful and still wants a D. He isn't the same person either. I am hopeful this is the start of really detaching, but it is such an emotional roller coaster I am afraid I'll be back the other way in an hour.

Keefa - I am glad you are taking the high road during all your interactions with W especially in front of the kids. Your kids will remember that someday. And, you can always look yourself in the eye and say you tried to take the high road and save your marriage. You did your best, especially with it being two years!
Posted By: CWOL Re: Inevitable always happens - 03/10/16 10:59 AM
Originally Posted By: broke
So, I agree with CWOL, my H has to follow through on the divorce to prove our marriage was a mess even without the affair. I think it is a matter of "saving face" or credibility.


That's why I exposed her affair after holding tight for three weeks. I know DB discourages exposure, but I had to get it out there so she can't "save face." She now refuses to talk to any of the people I told about her affair now, as she knew she can't spin the story since I got the facts out BEFORE she had a chance to claim our marriage was a mess. Those who have tried to talk to her said, yes, but really, for nine years (the first contact that I uncovered between her and OM)? They all know me and said whatever my behavior was, it can't amount to enough for her to wreck the marriage and have an affair. So she lost credibility on that.
Posted By: broke Re: Inevitable always happens - 03/10/16 11:06 AM
CWOL (sorry to hijack Keefa),

I exposed the PA to many of our friends where we lived for 19 years before we moved here. They pretty much sided with me and he cut off contact with all of them. I don't think he is being honest with the remainder of his friends or family (my guess is he is telling them the PA started after I "kicked him out" in October). Regardless, I think that is why he has to follow through with the D…..he wants to show everyone that we were on the path to divorce even without the A (or, so that is what he is telling himself and anyone he thinks will believe him). Unfortunately, no one will call him on his BS. But, I don't think they believe him anyway.
Posted By: CWOL Re: Inevitable always happens - 03/10/16 11:18 AM
Originally Posted By: keefa
I think we are ! Isn't it mind blowing how the same things occur like they do !
How is your WW treating you now ? Mine is friendly ish but we only communicate strictly kids only. She won't say hello or look at me when I pick up and drop off, but I always make sure I look my best and am all smiles and positives.


Lol, my WW is your WW's clone! She does the same thing. She doesn't even answer "Good morning!" back to me in the morning, and does not wave goodbye to me. I make a point to do both and greet her and be all smiles and positive. We are pleasant enough together as a family.

To be honest, I do not hate her at this point. I think when she moves out she will discover her unhappiness is not because of me.
Posted By: keefa Re: Inevitable always happens - 03/11/16 08:09 AM
today I am feeling guilty. My house is now looking fab, new furniture, new TV. I am running 4 times a week. The sun is out, it is a beautiful day, Rugby this weekend and I have my boys, I had a date of sorts last night, I am liking myself and am liking my life at the moment. Shouldn't I be wallowing in the grief of my M and 15 years made worthless? Nope. I choose how I feel, no one else and today I am choosing to feel strong, healthy and positive.
[censored] storm on the horizon but will deal with it if it comes my way. I feel guilty because I feel like I am moving pretty rapidly into my new life, there has been absolutely nothing to suggest there is anything for me in my old life.
I read this a few days ago...
'if only everything would fall into place, I would find peace'
But what it should be is...
'Find peace, and everything will fall into place'
Just wanted to share my feelings today with those who are in a dark place or who are struggling. I loved my wife. I mean die for her do anything for her loved her with out condition or agenda.
I still do. But she has gone, and I'm moving forward.
Posted By: keefa Re: Inevitable always happens - 07/01/16 10:13 AM
Hi everyone.
Been a while since I posted so thought I would check in.
I have been reading an awful lot on here over the last few months and I find it heartbreaking reading individual stories.

As for me, well it is a year today since I got ILYBINILWY.

My Divorce is progressing past the first court hearing (UK) and it looks likely to be messy.
I am still GAL'ing. I am polite and professional to my ex and only let my boys see me happy and content. I am still fighting to see them more (currently just under 4 days in 30) and am fighting to keep a roof over my head.
Solicitors bills have put me massively in debt but there are assets so what will be will be.

Emotionally, well, it is incredibly hard still.
I have times at work when I cannot stop tears.
I sit alone at night and am baffled how it got to this.
I still do not understand. I miss my boys every day.
Ex is hostile, vindictive, accuses me of everything and anything to vindicate her affair.
I still do not sleep well. GAL'ing is the hardest thing I have ever done. The ONLY time I feel happy is when I am with my boys. The absolute best moment in the month is Sunday morning on 'my' weekend, all snuggled up watching a movie and playing silly games.
I have accepted the loss of my wife. There is no way back from this even if a miracle happened and she wanted to talk.
I am struggling to accept the loss of my family, my dreams, my trust, my wanting to be close to someone.
Everyone tells me it will all come good, it will change.
I don't think so. I can't make it not have happened. I can't get back the times I have missed with my children.
All we ever do is scar over and become harder to what hurt us. Some of us become bitter. This is so sad. I often have nightmares about the police knocking at my door telling me there has been an accident involving her and my boys.
I miss the person I knew.
I want her to understand the pain.
I want her to at least be friendly for the sake of the boys.
Everyone tells me the boys will work it out one day.
Of this I have no doubt but how will I get my fatherhood back ?
How will I get back the hundred missed story times, light sabre fights before bed, sharing tv programs, making models on a rainy Sunday. The list goes on. I get told that to move on I must forgive.
I will never forgive her. Never. Healthy or not, I will never consider her with anything other than utter contempt.
The good times in our have been blacked out by what she has done. 15 years wasted.
Each week I try to do something for me, dog walk, treat for dinner and so on. I'm still putting one foot in front of the other and I hope something inside changes soon.

Good luck to you all.
Posted By: SH_ Re: Inevitable always happens - 07/01/16 11:41 AM
keefa, I'm not completely up to date on your sitch but that last few posts break my heart. I know the pain that you express.
I hope you can avoid being bitter over the long term, but I understand 1 year is still a short time and the pain is still raw. I am merely 6 months into it since the bd.
Check out the Ted talk about emotional first aid by Guy Winch. It can give you some words to the wise to chew on and ideas to begin some healing.

I hope you can look forward to the creation of some great memories more than looking back at the loss of others.

Be well my friend as I know first hand the pain you are expressing, but I desire to get past it and share this with you in hopes that you may as well.
Posted By: MoveFrwd Re: Inevitable always happens - 07/01/16 11:59 AM
Originally Posted By: keefa
The ONLY time I feel happy is when I am with my boys.


Keefa -
I sympathize for your struggles. I know how hard this can all bad.

That said, the part I highlighted is a problem. It is not your children's responsibility to make you happy. That is your responsibility, and yours alone. No matter what relationship you are in in the future, if you cant be happy on your own, it is doomed to fail.

I urge you to WORK on this. Have you watched the TED talk by Shawn Achor on the Happiness Advantage? I urge you to.

This is your only shot at life. You deserve to be happy for it. Don't let that responsibility fall to W and your kids.
Posted By: keefa Re: Inevitable always happens - 02/03/17 10:29 AM
Hi all,
It has been a long time since I posted. So... Here I am, all freshly divorced and minced through the courts. It has been a tough year, a tough roller coaster year. I have had false allegations, parental alienation, bullied by her solicitor, two upset young sons as well as dealing with financial collapse, loosing my family home, whilst trying to hold onto my job.
My Ex wife as many of you will understand, turned into a complete stranger. Someone I cherished, loved unconditionally, betrayed me and then systematically used any and everything against me including our sons.
But here is the thing....I am a better person for it. My solicitor has kept me (mostly) calm and grounded. I am slowly seeing more of my boys, and our relationship is immense. They admire and respect me and we have so much fun during our weekends. My feelings for my ex are now nothing but pure contempt and pity. I don't hate her but I do not recognise her at all. Anyone who uses kids as a weapon crosses a line that for me personally is no coming back from. I am dating and to be honest, starting to enjoy life again. I've done things I enjoy, found new hobbies and re-discovered old ones. I sleep better and work is going well. I am deeply saddened that what I though was our 'fantastic little family' was demolished in such an aggressive and purposeful way but I am also at peace with myself knowing I did all I could.
So. Anyone reading my posts, please feel free to comment, ask me what I did at certain points and why, I'll be happy to talk about what did and didn't work for me.
To all those struggling, remember this little phrase as it has / is serving me well...
Your now is not you forever...
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