NYGal: Still Trying to GAL - DivorceBusting.com

Link to old thread: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2651815&#Post2651815

Originally Posted By: Painter
You probably just want things to go back to the way they were and forget about this unfortunate incident, but how do you know it won't happen again?
NYGAL: THAT'S A KEY QUESTION. I WILL CROSS THAT BRIDGE WHEN I GET TO IT. I KNOW I'M NOT THERE YET.

If you were to consider getting back with her at some point, I would want to know why she thinks she did it. Was it boredom? IN PART, I'M SURE. Was there something she was really missing in the R with you? WELL I COULDN'T BOOST HER EGO AS EFFECTIVELY AS SOMEONE NEW CAN. What made her feel that this was the right thing to do? THAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION AND SHE HAS SAID (BELIEVE NOTHING OF COURSE) THAT SHE WANTS TO UNDERSTAND HOW SHE COULD HAVE DONE THIS TO ME/US. SHE HAS DONE IT IN THE PAST AND SHE COULD CERTAINLY DO IT AGAIN.

And I would be very worried about being dependent on her in any way again. SHE HAS SAID (BELIEVE NOTHING...) THAT SHE WANTS TO GET MARRIED TO HER PARTNER AT SOME POINT. OR SHOULD I SAY THAT SHE WANTS TO WANT TO GET MARRIED? I WOULD HAVE SOME VERY SERIOUS CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THIS BEFORE I FULLY COMMIT TO HER AGAIN. I KNOW SHE WOULD INSIST ON A PRENUP, BUT I WANT THAT LICENSE. AT THE VERY LEAST IT MAKES RELATIONSHIPS A LOT LESS TRANSIENT. AT LEAST IN MOST U.S. STATES.

And we worked so hard to have the right to be married and divorced!

I'm bringing this over from my old thread. It's from Wonka and I think I need to keep it close by.

NYG,

Come on! Still being too available here.

Seriously.

Let's get working on this latest convo using the DB way.

Thanked me for latte. Said I looked very nice. Said "I know I'm crazy so I'm sorry you're involved with a crazy woman."

Still temp checking. Don't you see it??!

I would have said: "I can see why you think this way. It must be hard for you."

Let W figure this out by herself.

Then she said: "I want you to know I'm doing some serious thinking. I miss our life together."

I would have said: "It looks like you're struggling. I hope you can find peace soon."

I would have said absolutely nothing about "me too" or fall into the pit of missing her blah blah blah. Remember, you're the STRONG one here. Not her.

Then I would have cut it short saying, "I cannot talk for long. I need to go and get back to work."

See? That will show her THAT you have no time for this chit as long as W is still involved with OW.

You really, really need to be scarce. I still see your actions as being too available and too desperate to accept her sloppy seconds.

I blocked W on my phone. So I won't know why she texted me last night saying: "Remember when u texted me that this was all just so wrong?" An hour and a half later I texted back, "Yes." Then nothing for the next 5 hours. So I blocked her. It's disturbing to hear this stuff, now that I'm angry.

Then this morning I found an email from her that she wrote last night 30 min after she sent the text. It said, "Do you know I'm a mess?" I didn't respond.

I don't know what kind of mental breakdown she's going through, but my therapist reminds me it's not my job to fix it. I feel for her, I really do. But as long as she chooses ow over me, I'm not interested in riding this crazy train. I got off at the last stop. For now at least.

That last paragraph of yours is the road to (loving) detachment.
Feel pity for her. She deserves it, at the very least, for the mess she is making of herself and her life.

I do feel pity. I've never stopped loving her with everything I've got. I wish I could take away her pain. But I realize I have to start loving and respecting myself a little bit more. She remains with her ow and I sleep alone with only panic and anxiety and a very active imagination that pictures them together in my bed. The fact that she won't end that, after all she has said about loving and missing me, leaves me with a horrible feeling of inadequacy and shame. And WTF confusion.

I prefer righteous anger, which is where I am right now. She's making a mess out of a lot of lives. And it's not OK.

And on that note, yes, I feel very very sorry for her and I do hope she figures this out.

NYGal...you are making amazing progress! It took me a long time to get to the point I could feel pity for H and realize his mess was not mine to fix. You are a quick learner!

Originally Posted By: NYGal

she texted me last night saying: "Remember when u texted me that this was all just so wrong?" An hour and a half later I texted back, "Yes." Then nothing for the next 5 hours. So I blocked her.

I dont like this tit for tat game.

It's fine to block her, but I would recommend doing things on your own terms. It feels like you expected her to reply (and Im not sure what she would reply back) and when she didnt, you got hurt or angry or sad or whatever and locked her.

My point is that I dont advise "re"-acting. Make your choices based on logic and reason, not based on emotion.

Maybe Im misreading your post, but it seems like you did this out of hurt feelings.

No, actually I did it because I had an appointment with my IC last night and I started to feel anger and the need to detach. When I got out of the appointment and saw that I had a message from her, I just felt the angst in the pit of my stomach. It's true that I did text back and waited several hours. But when there was nothing I realized I didn't want to hear what she had to say about the statement. I feel like she's got me on the hook and I want to be released.

Originally Posted By: annab74

NYGal...you are making amazing progress! It took me a long time to get to the point I could feel pity for H and realize his mess was not mine to fix. You are a quick learner!

Don't believe it Anna. That's how I feel right now, but it could change. My feelings are all over the map.

OK, so blocking on an iPhone only means that the "Delivered" message doesn't show up. If you don't notice, you don't even know you're blocked. And calls just go to voicemail, so that's not such a big deal either. I'm unblocking. I should at least know if she's trying to be in touch. I still don't have to answer if I don't want to.

We are all that way, NYGal... Sometimes I am on top of the world and think I am over my sitch and could care less how it all shakes out. Then something comes along and knocks me right on my butt. We're making progress though, and that's what counts. You need to pat yourself on the back when you can.

Since I unblocked her i'm driving myself crazy wondering what I missed. That wasn't a good idea.
Maybe she's NCing me! But I suspect not. Oh well. I'll never know I guess. And that's ok too,

Are you showing her the path home? If you don't she could be gone for good. First step on the path. OW gone for good.

Originally Posted By: annab74

We are all that way, NYGal... Sometimes I am on top of the world and think I am over my sitch and could care less how it all shakes out. Then something comes along and knocks me right on my butt. We're making progress though, and that's what counts. You need to pat yourself on the back when you can.

This is me...I feel kind of okay with moving on and then bam! And I can only feel badly for XF sometimes not all the time. You're both light years ahead on that one.

You may have better boundaries than I do, Rain.

Originally Posted By: TxHubby

Are you showing her the path home? If you don't she could be gone for good. First step on the path. OW gone for good.

Hey, Texas - care to elaborate on this? I'm curious what you'd do.

Thanks!

Yes TX please elaborate. I've kept the path clear, but she hasn't gotten rid of ow. The latest thing she said: "I'm giving this some serious thought." And "do you know I'm a mess?" I didn't respond to that email.

What am I supposed to say? I don't just want to become her friend. I can't get her out of this mess she's made for herself. The road is clear except for the speed bump called ow. I'd run right over her, but W won't make her go away.

Originally Posted By: NYGal

Yes TX please elaborate. I've kept the path clear, but she hasn't gotten rid of ow. The latest thing she said: "I'm giving this some serious thought." And "do you know I'm a mess?" I didn't respond to that email.

What am I supposed to say? I don't just want to become her friend. I can't get her out of this mess she's made for herself. The road is clear except for the speed bump called ow. I'd run right over her, but W won't make her go away.

All you have to do is communicate what the path back to you looks like. If she's still with OW then there is no path. When my WW decided I was the one she wanted then at first I said, hell no, go away and let me be, but re-thought it, and then a friend told me I had to show her the path back. The path back might look different for all of us. It's every little step, in order, of what they have to do if they want back in your life. Think about it and write it out. Don't leave anything off. If you don't show them a path back then they'll give up and truly be gone for good. In that path back to you, don't be a doormat.

The very first step on that path. No more AP's. If our cheaters can't get past that one then there's no point in the rest of the path. NYGal, what does the path back to you look like? Does that path exist yet? It's ok if it doesn't. Still, if you ever R with her in the future then there has to be a path toward that.

TX, I've noticed that whenever she thinks I'm pulling away, she reels me back in with talk of how much she misses me and regrets what she has done. Her latest has been how utterly miserable she is on the path she's on. So when I tell her it's not too late for us, and show her the path, the first stumbling block is the AP. She's not ready to let her go. So I back off a bit, then she says she's giving serious thought to reconciling with me and how much she misses our life. When I say I do too (clearing the path and showing her I'm still there) then she says she's a mess. And she won't let the ow go. So I guess I don't know how to show her the path without her throwing ow right there onto the path and cluttering it all up.

She knows, because we've both said it, that we don't walk this path until there's no AP. (BTW she says it's not cheating because we're not together.) But when I asked her if she would at least not sleep with her until she's decided, she wouldn't even answer. So I feel like I'm back on the roller coaster I started on.

I've not heard from her since the email where she said "Do you know I'm a mess." I didn't reply. I don't want to be her BFF. I want to be her W.

Originally Posted By: NYGal

TX, I've noticed that whenever she thinks I'm pulling away, she reels me back in with talk of how much she misses me and regrets what she has done. Her latest has been how utterly miserable she is on the path she's on. So when I tell her it's not too late for us, and show her the path, the first stumbling block is the AP. She's not ready to let her go. So I back off a bit, then she says she's giving serious thought to reconciling with me and how much she misses our life. When I say I do too (clearing the path and showing her I'm still there) then she says she's a mess. And she won't let the ow go. So I guess I don't know how to show her the path without her throwing ow right there onto the path and cluttering it all up.

She knows, because we've both said it, that we don't walk this path until there's no AP. (BTW she says it's not cheating because we're not together.) But when I asked her if she would at least not sleep with her until she's decided, she wouldn't even answer. So I feel like I'm back on the roller coaster I started on.

I've not heard from her since the email where she said "Do you know I'm a mess." I didn't reply. I don't want to be her BFF. I want to be her W.

It does seem like she wants to keep her options open. Keep this new thing going and see where it goes but also know that she has you, the known good thing, in reserve. I was there too. I know what it's like to be that known reserve.

For me I finally took the big gamble. I said I'm done playing this game, I want a divorce, and I filed and had her served. That could have gone either way. She might have chosen her fancy new life of drinking, clubs, and men. Instead she chose me. I was lucky (I guess, sometimes I don't know). Do I feel safe with her? No. I don't know if I ever will. I think betrayed spouses that say they got over it and feel safe with their partners again are really lying to themselves. I know your pain.

I guess at some point you get to the point of no return. Your W doesn't get the luxury of keeping both of you within arm's reach. Nobody gets that luxury unless you allow them to have it. If you're content to stay how it is until she figures it out then go for it.

The deck is kind of stacked against you in that regard because while you're detaching and backing off the OW isn't. She's filling her head with every line of utter BS that your W wants to hear. In your particular case, however, I think that OW is kind of a nasty person. Nasty enough that the shine of the new R is already wearing off and making your W question her choices. The thing is, you said she did this once before. After I found that out you know what my opinion was. Maybe your W can change. Maybe she can grow up and cut out the silly jr. high school girl behavior. Maybe she can't. At her age I question her ability to change.

For your own mental/physical health at some point you have to do the final me or her, once and for all, no going back. If she chooses you then you have to give her the path back. If she asks how can I fix this? How can I help you heal? How can I re-earn your love? (All questions my wife asked) then you have to decide if they can do those things. If they can then you build a roadmap for them. You can't answer "I don't know if you can fix it." Say that one time too many then they give up, cut their losses, and move on. If you want her back and she asks those things then give her the roadmap back to you. That has to be your personal roadmap. What are the steps for her to be back in your heart fully? I think step #1 has to be NO more other people, EVER. If she has any further contact with OW then there is no point at listing any other steps. In the meantime, while she works on the steps, you're still GAL'ing and moving on.

You can't sit around forever waiting. I GAL'ed. I started really moving on. I went to lunch and coffee with lady friends. I wasn't dishonest with them. I told them exactly where I was with my wife (separated, limbo). I told my wife about it. Unlike her, I didn't keep secrets. Did having adult conversations with women I found attractive make me feel WAY better than sitting around the house throwing pity parties for myself? Oh heck yes it did. So much better. People that tell you that's a bad idea don't understand how much better that makes you feel. It also really helps you detach and think about other things besides your situation.

I do think the path back is important because, just like you, they are not going to wait forever either. My wife snapped out of her funk and asked me those questions explicitly. Sometimes you don't get that. They're afraid to ask that openly for fear the answer is no. They'll broach the subject in a passive way by saying things like "I guess I really screwed this up for good" or "I really miss us." You get the picture. Look for those phrases. What they're really saying is "is there any way to fix this?" "Is there any way we can be together again?" It's just pride or fear holding them back from asking the real question.

NYGal, when TX showed his W the path, she already wanted to come home. Your W isn't there yet. That's why it worked for him, but not for you. She's not ready!!! That doesn't mean that she won't eventually want that, but she's not there right now. All you're doing is pushing her away. Remember our talk last night. ......Let It Be. You are strong and you can do this. This is not the time to show her the path. You do that when she wants to come home. She's just not ready to give ow up yet. Remember our talk and how you're going to pull away and ACT AS IF you've moved on so she will be that scared little kid on the swing. We talked about all of this. Go through that conversation in your head. Get yourself together. Play it out in your head so you will know what to do. Then, go DB the crap out of her! If she tries talking to you, VALIDATE, VALIDATE, VALIDATE, then be too busy to talk and end the conversation and go on about your business. Do NOT buy her a coffee. Do NOT tell her you miss her. Do NOT under any circumstances flirt with her. You've got this. I have faith in you.

A little pain now will shorten how long this will take. Just remember that.

I totally agree with MB. If they don't want to be shown the path then don't bother. You also have to recognize when they do want to see the path but because of pride or fear won't say it openly. You know her better than anyone else. You'll know when it's time.

Hi NYG, came by to let you know your loved and let you know better days are coming. I've learned that in matters of the heart one must except glacial speed as the norm. All you can do is be strong, positive, and kind. Our spouses are skittish and confused. All we can do is behave well and act emotional attractive. Stay strong

W texted:"What's going on with me????? I'm a liar, a cheater, and very lazy. I've got severe depression and anxiety, am not deserving of you or anyone else. I'm a low life who can't function. That's what's going on with me."
A minute later: "I need help."

Me: I'm so sorry you feel this way. That's a lot to deal with.

Taken right from the validation statements.

I'm kind of worried about her.

I would just monitor closely. Dont get tricked. She is searching for you to come running. She has the OW still right? Then let hr deal with the crazy, you dont want to!

You're stronger than I am NYGal. That will serve you well. I wish I could advise you what to do this minute but this could potentially be a very bad situation. I don't know your W well enough to know if she's just being a drama queen knowing you'll respond if she sends you a "the sky is falling" message or if this is out of character and she might in the mindset of having a breakdown or harming herself. You know that better than we do so please respond accordingly.

I'm probably in the minority here, but I'd be tempted to check in with her. But it would need to be clear that you're not checking in because you want a relationship - you're checking in because you care about her as a human being.

If a person you just met told you what she texted you, how would you react? That should be your guide. Respond to her like you would anyone else. But (and this is the tough part) respond with no expectations. No thoughts of getting back together. No thoughts of doing it to keep the road back to you open. No thoughts of how much it would hurt if she still chose the OW over you. Compassion without strings

Yes, otw. She still has ow. She did say something about being alone this week, so maybe she's trying to be alone for a few days (which W does NOT do well.) I wish I knew if it was W's or ow's suggestion...

SciDad,I'm very tempted to check in with her. You think more than the validating statements I texted back?

I don't want to be just her best friend, but I am worried. I am considering calling her sister to tell her I'm worried about W. Thoughts?

If you want contact someone to check on her.

I have read situations here and this is almost another script. I in no way take these things lightly as a life is more important than any of this, but for someone to reach that point dont you think they would exhaust all options to feel better first?

Im sorry you are dealing with this, but in my opinion have someone look in on her, but the part about being alone this week is BS. The ww are never alone, they cant be. they say it but they need the validation from others, be it ow/om or just friends.

My w has to have someone around her at all times.

I don't believe she's suicidal. Most likely she is at work, although I don't want to call over there. She can be dramatic, but at the same time I believe she is in crisis. However, if it's just because she still can't choose between us, I don't have a lot of sympathy. Some, though, for her pain. I do still love her. I don't like the person she is right now.

then leave it alone. she needs to go through this on her won and figure out what she is dong.

let her feel the pain you have been feeling

Originally Posted By: NYGal

Since I unblocked her i'm driving myself crazy wondering what I missed. That wasn't a good idea.
Maybe she's NCing me! But I suspect not. Oh well. I'll never know I guess. And that's ok too,

That was why I said that the blocking was about her, not about you. You wanted to "send a message to her", but since you could tell she wasnt going to see it, then you reversed it. And your wondering about all of the stuff you may have missed just reinforces this.

Id advise that whenever you are going to act, to really think about your goals and what you hope to accomplish through that action.

Originally Posted By: TxHubby

All you have to do is communicate what the path back to you looks like. If she's still with OW then there is no path. When my WW decided I was the one she wanted then at first I said, hell no, go away and let me be, but re-thought it, and then a friend told me I had to show her the path back. The path back might look different for all of us. It's every little step, in order, of what they have to do if they want back in your life. Think about it and write it out. Don't leave anything off. If you don't show them a path back then they'll give up and truly be gone for good. In that path back to you, don't be a doormat.

The very first step on that path. No more AP's. If our cheaters can't get past that one then there's no point in the rest of the path. NYGal, what does the path back to you look like? Does that path exist yet? It's ok if it doesn't. Still, if you ever R with her in the future then there has to be a path toward that.

I think this is all well and fine IF W is interested in resuming a relationship with you. All of this self-pity garbage is meaningless. If she wants to be with you, it's on her to make that clear. Through actions.

Originally Posted By: NYGal

TX, I've noticed that whenever she thinks I'm pulling away, she reels me back in with talk of how much she misses me and regrets what she has done. Her latest has been how utterly miserable she is on the path she's on. So when I tell her it's not too late for us, and show her the path, the first stumbling block is the AP. She's not ready to let her go. So I back off a bit, then she says she's giving serious thought to reconciling with me and how much she misses our life. When I say I do too (clearing the path and showing her I'm still there) then she says she's a mess. And she won't let the ow go. So I guess I don't know how to show her the path without her throwing ow right there onto the path and cluttering it all up.

Because of this. She wants to keep ALL the paths open. Telling her to close off a different isnt going to go well. Youve said it, now let her go. No need to keep repeating things.

Originally Posted By: TxHubby

For me I finally took the big gamble.

I hate thinking of the decision to divorce as a 'gamble'. In my m ind, theres no reason to file until you are content with either outcome.

I would not do ANYTHING with the intention of sending a message to W. Do what you need to do for you to be healthy.

Originally Posted By: otw

then leave it alone. she needs to go through this on her won and figure out what she is doing.

Right. You are not her friend or her therapist or her lover.

Let her figure her own chit out.

Does she have a counselor or therapist she can call?

If you are really worried or she sends you more distress signals, you could maybe reply something along the lines of 'This is worrying, I hope you will contact your counselor/therapist as soon as possible.' It should signal that you care, but can't fix it.

If that ticks her off, you'll know it was drama and attention-craving acting out. If she's truly in distress, she will seek proper help.

She could be regretting her choices and not know how to recover from them. Shame is a very difficult feeling to deal with, and many flee from it in any way they can.

I believe she feels shame. She has said as much. She has sent lots of distress signals. She's reaching out, but I'm not sure what she's reaching for. It could be just to keep me close while she goes through this. She can't stand to be alone.

In the past she said she could flip a coin to decide between me and ow. (Ouch.) Rather than flip a coin, I want to be the one she realizes offers the best chance for happiness. I don't get the pull ow has on her. But it must be powerful. Especially when she says she has major concerns about her. What does that say about our R??????

p.s. apparently she has a therapist.

Originally Posted By: NYGal

I don't believe she's suicidal. Most likely she is at work, although I don't want to call over there. She can be dramatic, but at the same time I believe she is in crisis. However, if it's just because she still can't choose between us, I don't have a lot of sympathy. Some, though, for her pain. I do still love her. I don't like the person she is right now.

NYGal, I'm very proud of you for your response to W this morning. Did it make you feel better just saying it? If not, eventually it will! You did a great job.

First let me say that if you actually think she's suicidal (and you said you didn't think that), then I would ask one of your mutual friends to go check on. Or, even better, call 911 like Rain does.

If you're not afraid she's suicidal, then let her be. She chose this path. You can't fix her. It isn't up to you...she FIRED you! She made this mess and it's hers alone to clean up. Sorry if OW is out of town or whatever, did she care that you have been ALONE? Was she there to comfort you while you cried? Let her feel the pain of what she created. She needs to go through this and she needs to do it knowing that she pushed you away and you're not available to her while she is in a R with ow.

Most likely she is at work and you don't want to call her THERE? Did you mean that you don't want to call this woman that she has become AT ALL? Please say yes! If you just can't resist (and I KNOW you can) then CALL ME FIRST! I will be your rock. The huge rock that will sit right on top of you so you can't dial that phone! Lol

You should really be proud of yourself for being so strong this morning. And, if she continues to text you, don't answer every single one of them. Wean yourself down if you need to. You can do this. We are all here to help you.

I'm sure my "I'm so sorry you feel this way. That's a lot to deal with" sounded like rejection to her. I know her well. At least I know the old her.
What if this emotionally distraught person needs to know which one of us is there for her, and it's not me?

Do you want to be someone's lifeline and rescuer, or do you want to have an equal partner? If you're her lifeline, she'll leave you again as soon as she feels better.

I just started reading Co-dependent no More. I want an equal partner. I just can't help feeling like she's testing me or something. I want to text a heart. Or just say, are you feeling better? But I won't. MB would kill me and Wonka would desert me and Azzork would let me have it! Thanks to all of you for keeping me from making another mistake.
But oh, I miss her.

I have days where I want to do the same because I miss him. It [censored] but we can stay strong and not do it!

ny gal
i would kill you too!

do not text her. you are playing into it. she is making sure you are there. stop over thinking it. she has to tell you she wants you and only you

NYGal we all know it is very hard not to pursue at times, take a breath and step back to look at the great progress you have made! I see DB as a workout sometimes for your mind. It can get tiring and a pain to want to do it all the time, but when you do you are strengthened. And pursuing is like cheating on that workout/ diet. It's not helping you get stonger its a set back.

I see how much stronger you are now and it's inspiring. Keep up the amazing progress.

W texted that she is bringing something by in 10 min. It's a UPS package that I received a notification on so I knew it was coming. (It's nothing I ordered.) I'll do my best, friends.

No relationship talk!

She brought it up. Said she is getting closer to letting ow go and wants to get back with me. She knows she has to let ow go first. we would need therapy. She said she just wants to dial back to a year ago. She said she would appreciate me more. but i cried and said how hard weekends are for me, especially this one because its V day. Bleecchhhh. i couldn't be strong. she said in a non-commital way that i shouldn't assume she will be sleeping with ow saturday night.
I know it's all b.s. but how do i handle this now? she's really reaching out to me.

Ugh
I wish you could have been a bit stronger. I know you didn't say much but she is just saying the same things over and over to keep you hanging and you fold everytime. She shouldn't be able to believe all weekend you are sitting around thinking about her

Hi NYG, I'm sorry this is so tough - but what you are looking for here is solid action and not words. Please don't believe the words only the action. For example:

"I'm getting closer to letting OW go" - I have told OW it is over and sent her a NC letter and managed to be OW free for 3+ months

"I just want to dial back to a year ago" - I have fully accepted how destructive my actions are and have expressed genuine remorse for them. I understand the damage caused and truly regret it. I'm willing to do whatever it takes to repair things with you

I feel she is toying with you and ATM she wants to have BOTH - doesn't really want to lose you OR OW. I think you have to take yourself firmly out of the equation here - unless she HAS ended things with OW. You could explain something like - we have no R at this point, and we won't have any sort of R whilst you are with OP. If you decide to end things with OP, that's your choice and we can talk again after that point.

Please don't keep getting dragged back on to the roller coaster with her my friend. Do you see that she is nowhere near where she needs to be at this point?

JMHO of course....

I do see that, thanks Sotto and otw. I will NOT let myself be (too) vulnerable to her until she has told ow it's over for good. and then i will have to figure out how to make sure that has happened. I doubt ow will be interested in sticking around, but who knows? she doesn't want a scandal (and to have to come out as a newly minted lesbian). Or at least that's what I assume. Remember, she did not look happy when i saw her at the basketball game.

I also know I could be completely fooling myself. Just yesterday W said she's a lying cheating low life who can't function. Today she said she's coming out of it and doing better. I know she's not stable. I know this could all leave me reeling if there's a second BD. But friends, I do feel something has shifted.

She said something about having dinner next week. I said I won't be just her friend and she said, no, no, not to be friends, to talk about us getting back together. After she left and called back to make sure I'm ok because she "hated to see me walk away sad" I had composed myself and we were laughing a little and I said, let's get together tomorrow. I was challenging her sincerity about all this. She laughed a little and said, well, let me take care of a few things here. So we'll see.

I won't reach out first. She'll know that I'll assume she's with ow tomorrow night, and if that's the assumption she wants to leave me with then she'll have to live with the consequences. And I did say that not sleeping with ow would sure send a signal that they are over. It's as close as I could come to setting a boundary. So this is all a whole new ball of wax. She knows she's hurting me if she continues to sleep with ow, in case it wasn't obvious before. She knows I won't stand for it. So it's up to her. If she doesn't let her go, I'm gone.

Wonka, calling Wonka.

We need a Wonka signal like the one they have for Batman.

A big W in the sky.

Hey NYG...just heard your bat signal! What's up? Is there a particular question or concern that you'd like to know here?

W is saying she wants to reconcile and that she's getting "closer" to telling ow to take a hike. She misses me and our life together. She knows she has to tell ow to go before it's possible. She wants to get together to discuss over lunch or dinner. I said I won't do things with her just to be her friend and she said she understands that. It's to discuss getting back together. I think if we appear publicly together that might mean she doesn't care what ow thinks... unless she's trying to make ow jealous. But I don't think so. She's not above drama however...

(Also when you have time could you go over to MB's thread and give her some advice? She's really stuck.)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...825#Post2652825

What does "getting closer" to saying goodbye to OW even mean?

By turning 35, I will be "getting closer" to being president. Does that make me president?

NYG,

Yeah I now see it.

The key here is self-respect. What I mean by that is not accepting W's sloppy seconds and not making it too easy for her to reconcile. You are a quality person.

You REALLY have the upper hand here. Not W. Not the OW.

For me, what self-respect means that I will not be a second fiddle to anyone. Self-respect means zero drama. All of that chit about getting hot and cold is manipulative. No two ways about this.

I am a lot further along on the path than you are and I now recognize it. I am absolutely fearless and I would not be shy about laying down conditions.

If I were you, I'd hear what she has to say then go with this:

I can see that all of this is a very difficult and painful experience. It has impacted me too and I do not feel safe with you. Trust needs to be earned here. Your actions are not trustworthy.

In order for ME to consider reconciliation, if that ever happens, I require the following from you in order to feel safe again:

1-OW needs to be completely out of the picture
2-No contact with OW in any manner even if it is work-related
3-Write a no-contact letter/email to OW to be reviewed by you and approved by you prior to sending to OW
4-We continue living separately
5-Counseling is non-negotiable
6-We are not going to be involved or start dating for a while until all of the conditions are met and followed through

Tell W that you value yourself too much to be put in this position ever again and you are now aware of your needs. You need a partner who is supportive, open to having difficult discussions if there are ANY problems whether it be large or small, not run away from problems, and thinks you're the bee's knees.

Then wrap it up by saying that W has some decisions to make here and it is all on her to clean up her mess. You cannot help her nor will fix it for her. It is W's responsibility to fix this mess.

I'll smack you, NYG, if you say "I miss you, I love you" or some other sappy sentiments to W. Time to grow a backbone and lay it all out for W.

Thanks Wonka, so much. I've already copied all this down to refer to over the next few days and weeks. Cautiously optimistic, but not jumping for joy. I fully understand that if this happens, the hard work is only beginning.

Just to be extra-clear here....

3-Write a no-contact letter/email to OW to be reviewed by you and approved by you prior to sending to OW

What I meant by that is that YOU will need to review the email/letter composed by W prior to sending to the OW.

Originally Posted By: NYGal

W is saying she wants to reconcile and that she's getting "closer" to telling ow to take a hike. She misses me and our life together. She knows she has to tell ow to go before it's possible. She wants to get together to discuss over lunch or dinner. I said I won't do things with her just to be her friend and she said she understands that. It's to discuss getting back together. I think if we appear publicly together that might mean she doesn't care what ow thinks... unless she's trying to make ow jealous. But I don't think so. She's not above drama however...

(Also when you have time could you go over to MB's thread and give her some advice? She's really stuck.)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...825#Post2652825

Here's where I get a little tough. I'm pro-talking but I won't talk to someone about being in a relationship with them while they're in a relationship with someone else. OW gone for good? Great, let's talk. OW still in the picture? No, I'm sorry but it wouldn't be right to talk about getting back together while you're with someone else.

That's just my opinion. Take it or leave it, I won't be offended.

I'm curious about something - has she put anything in writing about reconciling, regretting the A, her concerns about the OW, feeling confused, etc.? Or is it all verbal?

Hi NYGal, just catching up on your thread as I've not been on here the last few days. What a turn up for the books W saying all this! You've had some great advice from Wonka and I totally agree with her. Don't give in too easily and you definitely need to see that letter of NC to OW first too. I made this mistake when my H came back 9 years ago. Was just so pleased to have him back I didn't insist on anything and a few years later discovered he'd never stopped contact with OW, now I'm here again trying to rescue my M. Good luck though, I'm rooting for you!

No, nothing in writing yet! I have to be patient. It feels like now that she has said some of the things she has said, she has to either dump ow or I'm out of the picture. She knows that, so the ball is in her court. I'm ok with giving her time because I've learned I can't rush her with any decision. And as long as I know where she (says she) feels, I'm in a good frame of mind where I feel I have some choices and therefore some power. If she still can't tell ow it's over then I know I have to move on even more deliberately. Of course I'm hoping for R. If she chooses ow over me I will be devastated all over again. That's why pulling back now is a good plan for me.

So she's not so out of control that she slips up in writing...

Please be careful with your feelings.

Hi NYGal, sometimes the hardest thing for me to do is display patience. Hang in there, your making the right choices. Be strong

NyGal

Just been caching up in your thread

Time it take a lot of time ...day by day step by step let it take you closer to your happiness

Take care
Ghost

My mind is working overtime and filling in the blanks. W said she was "alone" last week and now I'm thinking she and ow took a break. But I've heard nothing from W since Friday. I know her so well and that she hates to be alone. What if it was ow who skillfully pulled back only to reaffirm her "love" and it's they who have reconciled, not us?
I can anticipate that now I have to renew my patience skills and just stay away. W must know I'm stewing about this. If she doesn't reach out, she must have made her choice. Again.
I'm very tempted to ask her. Were you just playing me?

as soon as you ask you have started yourself over again, and most likely you will cry and get in relationship talk from previous experience, then you will be left in the same place.

but fresher for you to spin and stew over.

Do you want to keep ripping the scab off the wound?

Originally Posted By: NYGal

I'm very tempted to ask her. Were you just playing me?

Do you really think she even knows the answer to this...?

Originally Posted By: NYGal

My mind is working overtime and filling in the blanks. W said she was "alone" last week and now I'm thinking she and ow took a break. But I've heard nothing from W since Friday. I know her so well and that she hates to be alone. What if it was ow who skillfully pulled back only to reaffirm her "love" and it's they who have reconciled, not us?
I can anticipate that now I have to renew my patience skills and just stay away. W must know I'm stewing about this. If she doesn't reach out, she must have made her choice. Again.
I'm very tempted to ask her. Were you just playing me?

Really no point in all this over-thinking. It'll just drive you crazy. Call the cute friend and go have fun.

If I know W I know she's right back in the messy disaster she has created. It occurs to me that maybe I'm the only one not playing anyone here. W was courting me last week, ow was probably giving her some sort of ultimatum, and I'm just trying to be the person she'd be a fool to leave. But I'm the only one sleeping alone. Ironic, isn't it?

Thing is you used to know her. She is not thinking the same or logically.

Throw that thought away

Originally Posted By: NYGal

But I'm the only one sleeping alone. Ironic, isn't it?

This will help you be the only one thinking clearly throughout this situation.

A large percentage of the world population sleeps alone. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. The pain is grief over having lost your W, which is going to come and go in waves for a while.

What I wish for you, is the strength to step away from W, not allow her to play with you, and not get pulled back into her chaos every time she beckons.

You being so available is giving her the opportunity to drag this out and indulge in more self-obsessed drama. That's why she pulls away again - you fed the beast, she's content for a while and doesn't care about anyone than herself right now. Truly, truly egotistical. I hope this makes you a little angry soon, just enough to carry you through the next few weeks.

I'm trying to stay as detached as I can and wait for this A to implode. W wants whatever she can't have. She won't be happy until she's out of this mess. The next few days will be very revealing. I'm trying not to be scared. Last week she was reeling me back in. If ow is back, W's mess just got bigger. Trying to detach, trying, trying... Oh so trying!!!!!!

Originally Posted By: NYGal

W wants whatever she can't have.

Which is why you HAVE to detach, move on, and GAL. If you're a clingy guarantee, she won't want you. All human beings want things we can't have. The more we can't have it, the more we want it. The more you detach, move on, and GAL you may flip this script and she'll be the one trying to woo you back. Don't make it too easy. Don't sit around the house feeling sorry for yourself though. Nobody would want that back. Keep doing the fun activities with cute friends. Go have a great life. People want to be around people who are having a great life. That will make you very desirable to your W. No moping. No overthinking.

So a guilt-inducing text won't do the trick then?

Hope you didn't send the guilt-inducing text, NYGal. I can tell you from experience that they don't work. I promise. I have countless long emails and texts that are very logical and on point that only make my H more mad and distant.

Originally Posted By: NYGal

So a guilt-inducing text won't do the trick then?

No, because you're reaching out to her. Pursuing. What'll do it is her thinking you have moved on. You not giving a sh!t about her drama.

NYGal,

It seems you have a wall that you lean on.

That wall pops up from time to time - it's nice and easy to put your weight on it. It feels good, no?

Find another wall. Everyone needs a wall to lean on. I'm not insinuating that you find another mate, but use your support network, have some fun, re-link with old friends.

I hear hope and some desperation in your posts. Your wayward isn't going to show up out of the fog for a while. Showing her you've moved on a bit, without true intention, sets you up for a cycle of temp. checking. Really tell her you're happy to move on, and do that.

It does take time. I'm on month 4. It's gotten easier.

This was a tough weekend. I had a feeling she wouldn't call, and call she did not. I was so elated on Friday when she gave every indication that she wants to reconcile. But not calling me all weekend is a pretty clear sign that she's now back with ow. Of course I'm projecting, but I know her. She can't stand to be alone. She'll either ignore me all week or, sensing me moving away, she'll try to reel me in again.

My chest hurts from the pain again. I have to get this sorted out. I have to tell her to quit playing me. If she's choosing ow then she should just leave me alone and quit filling my head with hope. If she wants me then she must tell ow it's over. She can't keep doing this. It's sick and twisted and I'm so sick of suffering the consequences.

I need a new strategy. This just isn't working.

Think about what you could do differently! I'm darkish with STBHX, it wasn't working so I started to go back to who I really am (caring person). I texted him regarding me going to see my parents and I simply asked him how he was and he replied fast. Usually he'd ignore me!

NYG, I think she reels you in a little, then just lets you drift. And by letting yourself be reeled in, she gets enough reassurance to let you drift again. Please know that she is unlikely to completely let go of OW in the short term. If you need a new strategy, have one that focuses on you and on rebuilding your own life after this difficult time.

Just inwardly cut her loose and be less available to her. If you have contact, be less willing to engage in any R talks. Until or unless she hits a wall, I suspect little will change and you don't want to be on a rollercoaster with her during this time. This is her problem not yours, and ultimately she risks losing you.

Focus on detaching by 'attaching' to your own life and building up new activities you enjoy. You're doing well & it is still early days xx

I completely agree with Sotto. I think your W wants to make sure she still has you as an option. I am no expert, but I think the DR book talks about not getting your hopes up when they start talk of reconciling because it could scare them away or it may take several times before it "sticks". So, I think Sotto's advice of not engaging about that kind of talk and waiting for her to hit a wall is solid.

In the meantime, work on yourself. I know it is very hard to take that advice because I would like my H to get over his OW and want to reconcile ASAP. Someone posted great advice on my story that said not "to stand still" while you were db'ing. You and I both need to focus on how we get stronger for ourselves or for being our "best selves" to reconcile and have a better marriage than before.

Thinking of you.

She hasn't called me since Friday and I sent her a sweet text last night that she is also ignoring. What a difference a day (or two) makes.
NOTHING is working. When she asks for reassurance that we can make it I give it to her. When I'm dark she's not there. When I text she doesn't answer. I think she's playing me and ow is playing her and I'm lost in the mess.
I try to focus on me, but then the pain sweeps over me again and I feel hopeless. I am so sick of this I could scream. Indeed, I have, on a regular basis. This is not right. This is not fair. I can't stand this.

Originally Posted By: NYGal

I have to tell her to quit playing me.

NO!

NO!

NO!

TELLING her anything is a waste of your breath. Just stop LETTING her play you. You are letting your feelings, hopes, expectations rise and fall with HER words and actions. So when you talk with her, you get this feeling of possible R....then she doesnt call for a couple days, and you get back down in the dumps. She's playing you, because you are attaching your emotional wellbeing onto these interactions or lack thereof.

YOU need to stop the cycle. Not her.

All my big talk last week of letting go if she didn't contact me is all gone. Now I'm not even able to keep promises of not contacting her. I think it's hopeless.

Hi NYG, I know it's tough, but please read what other posters are advising and follow the advice! Many of us have been here a while now and know what works and doesn't work.

Please don't measure your own progress by the (frankly dodgy) yardstick of someone who has got themselves caught up in an A.

Accept that you may not see sustained change for a while yet and let go of her coat tails. It will serve you well to do this I promise. Let go of the thought that you just need to find that magic bullet and all will be well. It doesn't work like that.

This is why people advise - focus on you. You are the one thing you can rely on here.

Please read back over recent posts, think about what you are posting, re-read the 37 rules and move forward.

You can do this my friend xx

Originally Posted By: NYGal

I think it's hopeless.

You think **what** exactly is hopeless?

Us getting back together. That's what I think is hopeless.

The thing to work to work on is your own desperate need to get back together. Reconciling from a place of desperate need is unlikely to go well. It will serve you best to focus on yourself and seek to control that which you can control. You are worrying desperately about something (her) that you can't control.

We all do this in the early stages, and I do understand, but the sooner you can get going on your own journey - separate to your W as she is taking her own jouney - the better.

x

It's not hopeless. It just feels like it.

Progress will not be linear. You will go up and down, and back down and then loopty-loop all over again.

Maintain your composure. Stop pursuing W. Let her feel you disappearing from her life and don't be so available. Act like something clicked in your mind and you realize you are going to be fine with or without her.

Pick yourself up and dust yourself off. You can do this.

I'm just so disappointed because on Friday she said she wanted to reconcile, that she wished she could dial back the clock to a year ago, and that she loves me. Then nothing.

I don't feel strong enough to do this. I want an answer now. I hate waiting. If she's done with me she should say so.

Originally Posted By: NYGal

Us getting back together. That's what I think is hopeless.

Hmmmmm. I wouldnt say it's hopeless. I think it's a long shot, but then again, I think pretty much anyone that is here is already in a pretty bad spot.

What can you do to try to take your focus off of W and your relationship with her? Thats really where you need to keep your eyes right now.

Welcome to the club.

I just bought a house with WAW and thought we were getting married this year. A month ago, we were looking at wedding venues. Now she says she doesn't love me anymore.

I know you feel weak right now, break it down into baby steps. Just make it through this hour. Then reset and make it through another hour. Rinse, wash, repeat.

I dont think your W is done with you. She's conflicted right now. Her being conflicted is a good thing because she hasn't pulled the plug on NYGal. She's confused.

Pull back and act like you are doing fine. No R talks and definately dont reach out to her or text.

It's like she doesn't really want you back right now but wants to make sure you stay an option for her at her schedule. Trust me, NYGal, I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THAT FEELS LIKE. That was me for well over a year. It was pure hell. If you allow this to continue then you'll be more miserable than you ever imagined. It continued with me until I stopped it. Removing myself as that option and making sure she knew it was the thing that began the path back to our being together. When I was doing what you're doing now it did not work. It reassured her I was an option just waiting for her so she had the luxury to keep on behaving badly. Stop being a guarantee.

Originally Posted By: NYGal

I'm just so disappointed because on Friday she said she wanted to reconcile, that she wished she could dial back the clock to a year ago, and that she loves me. Then nothing.

Thats why rule 32 exists!

Originally Posted By: NYGal

I don't feel strong enough to do this. I want an answer now. I hate waiting. If she's done with me she should say so.

Nobody feels strong enough at the start of anything. Anything that you do takes training and practice. Just like training your muscles, you have to train your brain. Saying "it's too hard" doesnt mean anything, because you really dont have much of a choice. The advice youve been getting will help push the process forward for YOU without making things worse with W.

Think of it this way. Youve been (likely unknowingly) digging a hole in your relationship for years. So to fix this hole, what are the steps?

1) stop digging! - this is the focus of a lot of the rules. Stop pursuing (like sending "sweet" texts), stop arguing, stop pleading, etc, etc.

2) climb out of the hole! - you cant do anything while your stuck in the hole! So take care of yourself, get a life, act as if, etc, etc. This is to build yourself back into the best version of you.

3) only THEN can you start filling the hole back in. And by then, you may not want to. Or she may still not want you to. We'll cross that bridge when we get there.

But no matter what, you cant start filling in the hole until youve done steps 1 and 2.

She left me a VM that sounded kind of warm an hour and a half ago. Said she got my text and saw that I called and was just trying to get back in touch.
How do I stop digging the hole, climb out, and fill it back in? Do I ignore her call, even though she was responding to my reaching out? I can't let go of the feeling that there's a right and a wrong way to do this. How do I not let this continue now that the ball is back in my court, TXHubby?

I had a long reply to you earlier in the thread ready on my phone when someone rang, and I never got back to it!

If you feel the urge to send texts and voice mails, can you come here and post first? Because I have seen other posters do the same thing - do something anti-DB'ing and then come here and 'confess'.

If you want to DB, you got to try to follow the recipe.

So you sent her a text *and* tried to call? Did you not answer when she called you back, or did you just miss the call? Ignoring her return call would be sort of rude, IMHO. What did you text her, and did you leave a voice mail when you called her earlier? Knowing that would make it easier to suggest a response now.

In general:

What you've done so far, is a little like if you went on a diet and as soon as you lost 2 pounds, you'd binge on ice cream. You're doing things that are getting results, but then you get fooled by the results you're seeing into thinking that you're at the goal line and you stop doing what works. You're not at the goal line just because she reaches out to you, you can't even see the goal line right now. You have to continue just based on faith in the process and the encouraging reactions you're getting.

I absolutely see that you are in a lot of pain - been there, repeatedly. That is what GAL is partly about, distracting yourself from the pain, taking your mind off WW.

What kind of activities do you like? What have you always wanted to try? Are you working out? Going to the movies (yes, by yourself if necessary) to watch comedies or action movies? If you start crying, you can leave. But if you give the movie a chance, you may just be surprised how you get caught up in it and get a 2 hour respite - and could even walk out of there in a great mood that lasts the rest of the night.

Is there a dog park you can take your dogs to, and meet other dog owners? This is not the time for solitary walks.

Have you thought about learning something new? Take horseback riding lessons, an art class, join a meetup group, learn self-defense (very empowering!), etc. The sky is the limit, and now is the time.

Thanks for your insight and questions, Painter and others. I've tried every GAL I can think of. This weekend I:
1)Joined my Divorce Seminar folks Friday evening for a beer.
2)Then went out dancing with a friend.
3)On Saturday I went to a swim fitness class
4)Went for a long walk with my housemate and our dogs
5)Met a friend for drinks and a movie.
6)On Sunday I spoke with friends on the phone, went on an 18 mile bike ride (alone), then
7)Went to my divorce seminar
8)Then afterwards I fell apart because I hadn't heard from her on V day and couldn't get to sleep until 2 hours after I had texted her this at 1 a.m.:
Do you remember when we fell in love? It felt so right because it was. We both knew it. There were no "major concerns." [she said she has major concerns about ow] You reminded me last week that we used to leave parties and agree we were the best couple there. Because we were. That's why this is so wrong. [Last week she asked if I remembered saying that to her and I said yes but she never responded, so I was responding.]
You say that you are a low life and a crazy woman, but I don't believe that. I believe in you just as I always have."

Please, don't tear it apart and tell me all the reasons why I shouldn't have sent the text and what I should have said differently and why each thing I did say was wrong. I know everyone's opinion. It's just that sometimes I think I know my W better than you do, and I thought this might help. I really did. You tell me to be short with her and don't engage, but last Friday that's what she wanted to do and so I did and heard that she wants me back. She's in some sort of a crisis, and she has reached out for support and to let me know she wants our life back. So I did it, I talked to her and I texted her and I tried to call her earlier in the evening last night (she didn't answer). I will try not to do it again. I will try to follow the advice, and please keep it coming. I am really trying to move on but I feel stuck and all the GAL activities in the world don't take away the hurt I feel or the joy I feel when she gives me hope.

Hi NYG, most of us here don't post advice based on pure opinion - we post it based on the DB approach. I do think there are reasons why you shouldn't have sent that text and I have also seen many people who believe they know their SO better than posters on this site. It sounds as though you already know it was a mistake, and presumably you haven't had a reply from her?

As you say - it is best if you can try not to do it again and try to follow the advice. From where I am sitting, your W is continuing with her A and dropping kibbles for you every now and again, which you gobble up and then ask for walkies. I'm sorry to be blunt, but I have been in the same place - with my H telling me how he loves me and how beautiful I am and how OW isn't very nice to him - but months later he was still with her - off - on - off - on etc. Wash, rinse, repeat. The only way is to get yourself right out of that situation and leave her to sort out her own mess.

JMHO - but I would encourage you to re-read the 37 rules and assess how your late night text fits with them. If you can act from a place of logic ahead of emotion - then I think you really begin to get somewhere.

Do take care, and I don't mean to offend or upset - I'm posting with good intentions.

NYG,

I get that you are feeling pain and feeling really low especially on Valentine's Day not hearing from W. We all have been your shoes. Not a fun place to be at all.

You got sucked back in and reeled in like a fish when you and W last talked. The sole purpose, from her POV, was to merely temp check to make sure you're still right where she wants you to be. All WASes who are in A want to keep all options open. That should tell you right off bat how messed up in their heads they are when deep in affair fog.

From where I am sitting, you are VERY reactive. As you know from experience, that never went well for you. Trust us when we tell that DBing really does work when properly applied.
Sending that text screams of a very needy and insecure person. It sounded like you were trying to audition for her affections. Trying to reason and remind W of how it "used" to be never works. What you're doing here in essence is ARGUING with W's POV telling her that "she's wrong."

That will set you back 10 steps like the Candyland game. You know how the game is played. You go up the ladder and then you make misstep...down you do on the BIG SLIDE. Back to square one.

For the love of God, STOP texting W. For real. You say that you know W better than we do, how's that working out for you so far? You're still here. For once, I really wish you would apply the advice we say here and STICK with it.

You were doing really well. UNTIL. That talk with W last week. Boom! All of your hard work has gone down the drain.

Sometimes you frustrate me when you say that you will try to follow the advice and you DON'T "because we don't understand W like you do." Let me tell you this. We DBErs understand DB and have applied these principles to great success because we've followed the advice to the letter.

DBing is a road map for you and you just can't go off on the reservation because "I want to see and talk with W!"

I warned you from the beginning that in all the years I've been on DB site, I've NEVER, NEVER seen a DBer reconcile with their WAS under 6 months. Yeah, RT reconciled with her wife after 9 months...a rarity. The average is 1 to 2 years. This is a tough, hard, and LOOONG slog. You're expecting miracles to happen only 2 months into DB and W is still very HEAVILY engaged in an A.

Forget about reconciling. Forget about W's words because she's all talk...there's no walk to back it up. Talk is cheap. Stop letting your emotions get the upper hand for they've not served you well at all. Time to use your Spock hat.

Get busy living. When W calls you, just simply say, "W, before you go any further: Are you still with OW? Then there's nothing to talk about. Bye."

NYGal,
Please start a new thread.

New thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2653664&#Post2653664