Caught up since I last posted. JellyB was much more eloquent than I was in my quick summary. Every bit of Jelly's and sandi's posts are accurate and founded on good logic.
Having been in a place similar to your's, I cannot stress enough how much you need to switch your focus to your children. Coincidentally, as the other two pointed out, those 5 wonderful children are your best source of 180s, not your wife at this time. She is lost, confused, and waffling non-stop. You have listed at least three different decisions she is making about the children in just as many days. Red flag.
Now, father to father. You chose to be a father to those children. I'm sorry if this comes across as a bit harsh, but you really need to get past the thought that your 180s would best be done without your children with you. Us fathers get such a bad rap in this world because of thoughts like this. You have 5 boys. Those 5 pairs of eyes are watching every single move you make right now. My son very quickly learned, once I got my act together, that I was the stable, strong one. He also would be the sweetest boy that would give me a random, loving hug when I thought I was hiding the pain. Teach them what it means to be a man by overcoming an adverse situation with strength and caring. Show them that real men don't give up even when it gets difficult. And, in the special case of your children, teach them that not all fathers give up and leave them.
Great post Squiggy. Loving, soulful men,caring for their children is one of the most attractive things a man can do. It's also one of the human things in the world. Everybody wins! Thanks Squiggy. Jelly xxx
Thank you Squiggy, Jelly, and Sandi,
I will do my 180s for my boys. Although the things my W says are somewhat logical and can be seen from a different point of view, it does not excuse her choosing to stay at her parents as the right thing to do.
Jelly,
Yes, maybe the best thing is for me to move there with my boys after trial and I have custody. She may file in Toronto afterwards but I may have to take that risk.
Sandi,
Yes, I was shaking in my shoes when she said that she was detaching. That really scared me and I am sure based on other things she said that she would drop the boys off with me to go and have her fun. I don't trust anything she says anymore. As far as OMs go, I would prefer not to know about any of them or the details of her activities with them even though she says she is just friends. I definitely don't want to teach my boys that it is ok to run away from your problems and not face them head on.
Yes I filed and I will take the heat for that. She does not like that I am controlling but I guess she needs to figure out what kind of man she wants. I am taking charge now and that is what she wanted me to do in the past.
DB coach said WAWs want a vibrant life. Well I will do that with my boys and GAL, just not with her. Maybe she will wake up some day and see that and want to come back. Until then, I need to do what is best for me and the boys.
Thank you all again. She tried calling 3 times this morning but I didn't hear my phone ring. NC is the way to go. Unless she send me a text to speak with the boys, not going to interact with her at all.
So today was a good day. Went to church with boys and got some housework done.
Question: Does W get to know if I have someone watching my boys? I don't want to be rude but how much detail should she know?
If the boys are safe and cared for, I don't really see a reason she needs to know. Worst case scenario you just need to make sure the person was a trusted one with the boys' best interests and well-being at heart.
I agree with squiggy. As long as they are safe, why does she need to be told. If she asks then you can tell her, don't feel the need to explain yourself to her.
Do you expect that she will tell you each time she gets a sitter? Do you feel you should let her know? If yes then why? So she will know your GAL? So she will ask you about it? Or so she won't be mad when she finds out?
I'm not trying to put words in your mouth just help you understand if you feel there is a need to explain things to S.
One of the consequences to walking out and leaving the children with the H, is not knowing the details from day to day of their lives.
You need to adapt to the 7 status of your M, which is separation. IMHO, this is not what I would see as a friendly separation b/c you do not support it
Ssv and it was not on mutual grounds(. Therefore, I would not be sending photos taken with the phone, org frn tell what new activity they are involved in during the week, or where they may have gone over the evfvtt vtv tv ngnng ftb g trvn weekend, or how you care for them. It is not your responsibility to work at keeping the children in her life. It is her responsibility, and since she chose, to Ht By leave, she has to get it the best way she can. .
T rv cv
This may sound mean spirited to you, but that is not my intentions here. The WW learns from consequences and losses. If you are supplying or enabling, then she will continue in her wayward state. She may anyway, but for sure, she will if you don't back out of her life and allow her to sink in her own fantasy.
She has to play this out and see it doesn't bring her the happiness she thought it would. She has to see what she's done to those she loved the most. She has to find her way out of the fog. You have to play hardball. Get a shark lawyer and keep your kids. Don't try to help her, fix her, or do something you think may cause her to miss the family. None of that stuff works. Only time and consequences gets through to the wayward wife. The more spoiled........the more wayward. The more wayward.......the more consequences and time it will take.
Sandi,
I agree, I am separating. All I told her when she spoke with the boys yesterday was that it was a friend. She said she had a right to know and I politely gave the phone to the other two boys that she spoke with then hung up after she was done. She tried to call me twice after that later that night.
She also sent me a text saying she had a right to know and I did not respond.
This weekend she gets her parenting time with the boys. Our car cannot fit all of them. Do I give her the minivan and exchange cars or do I have her go buy car seats and borrow her father's car which will fit all the boys?
OMG, I don't know what happened to my last post. It has a lot of gibberish. I think my IPad is having a nervous breakdown!
This weekend she gets her parenting time with the boys. Our car cannot fit all of them. Do I give her the minivan and exchange cars or do I have her go buy car seats and borrow her father's car which will fit all the boys?
Why do
you have to figure it out? It's
her weekend, I think she would need to make whatever arrangements necessary.
sandi, the fire behind your words scared the ipad into typing it
jim - I agree with sandi. Stop trying to be the fixer/caretaker of your wife. She chose this. If you two were divorced, you would have zero responsibility for her side of the transportation. Treat it like that. Remember the AS IF principle of DBing? Perfect example of its application right here.
What do therapists and coaches suggest? I don't think it is a good idea to not tell her who is watching the kids. I think telling her the name of the person and their credentials is appropriate. Especially since she asked.
not telling her requested information concerning kids sounds petty and punishing to me. It is not good coparentiNg. I agree that you should not go out of your way for her. But a simple response to a question regarding young children is appropriate. You do not want to come across as someone that is not working in best interests of kids. Keeping info hidden is certainly not in kids best interest. Especially when they are young and cannot communicate well for themselves.
For her to have mini van sounds like it is in best interest of kids?
If my husband was doing things to intentionally spite me, I would be able to justify it as more of a reason to stay away from him. I think you have to come up with a clear line between not getting taken advantage of and not doing things to spite her. I do think of the nice things husband did for well being of kids. (During Christmas he did not push for them to leave our party to spend time with his family. They did not want to go. It would have been a lot of driving back and forth for them in one day. He came to them and visited for a while instead. I will always think of this kindness).
LOL! That is ok, I understood what you meant!
Julie, I can't speak to the legal side per se. It is good co-parenting to keep each other informed, absolutely, and the information should not be kept out of spite. However, in a divorce, each parent has their own parenting time for which they are responsible. What happens during those parenting times are up to that parent.
As a therapist, the kids will only be affected if it is hung out to dry in their faces instead of being kept between the adults.
My main thing was that Jim, who is a fixer and bends over backwards so much for his W, needs to start establishing boundaries and earning respect back. I don't get the sense that Jim's WAW was requesting the van. Instead, he is trying to fix the situation for her, which is something she needs to do on her own. A wayward spouse needs to face the reality of the situation.
I gave her the van last time so she will expect that again. I will not say or offer anything up but will give it to her if she asks. The right thing to do for the kids.
Or I can kindly suggest that she go an purchase more car seats and borrow her father's SUV and leave it at that.
Van is a mess and needs to be cleaned anyway which is something I can do during boys visit with mom.
As for the friend who watched my boys, I don't think it is fair that she should be allowed to parent from a distance. Too late for me to communicate who it was now, too much time has passed and she is upset which is her issue. She spoke to them and they are safe.
She should know me better than that by now. I would not leave the children with anyone I would not trust.
Julie,
I am not doing this to spite her. Because in her eyes I have failed at all the other things she has asked me to do she may believe that I may not be doing a good job raising the boys.
I don't know what she is thinking and at this point don't really care because she can't get passed the fact that she is choosing to be away and only wants to focus on past actions and fault me for everything.
I just want to move on from that be myself again and take care of the boys.
I am a nice and respectful person but I am busy enough everyday as a single parent and don't have time to justify everything to her at this time. She needs to wake up and smell the coffee that no action by her is also an action.
I have my plan to move to Toronto no matter what the outcome of the D, but as people have previously said, it may be best if custody stayed with me, then she can decide what type of parent she would like to be, at least I will be the one that is there for the boys everyday. I don't plan on taking a break from my kids. I signed up for this and will be their for them always.d
Squiggly, Jim
I still feel that if a specific question is asked pertaining the children. Remaining quiet and handing the phone over to the kids is basically stone walling, controlling, and spiteful.
I don't think her question was unreasonable. instead it became a power struggle. Personally, I feel like what goes on with kids should be open book. When they are young they can't communicate and things can get misinterpreted easily. Having adults all in, on their lives does not seem outrageous to me. In fact I think it helps to protect them. I wouldn't go out of my way to volunteer, but when asked I think it's okmto share info about them. If they get sick or hurt I also think it should be shared.
Now if wife had complained about your babysitter or about the fact that you are requiring babysitters, that is another story.
I agree that boundaries need to be established and I agree that it can be a fine line figuring them out. I struggle as well.
I don't plan on taking a break from my kids. I signed up for this and will be their for them always.
Thank you! I'm so so glad to see you say this!!
Julie, we're in a agreement. My viewpoint is that he shouldn't go freely offering everything up to her all the time. That doesn't negate responding to questions asked. It's more about Jim setting boundaries and not letting his WAW control him.
I didn't say to stonewall his W. I definitely agree with you on that point. Even when I was at my angriest, I didn't stonewall my W. I went with the minimum necessary rule regarding S6. She was aware of all important things, if she needed to be, such as doctor's visits, bruises, etc. Otherwise, he could tell her we went with me to the park or museum. If she asked, I would say Yep. We had a great time there, and he did awesome.
Julie,
Understood.
Now on to the next question.
Kids want to buy mom a necklace and ring for V day. I have no issue doing that and getting them the gift to give her. Even though she has a heart necklace from OM who "wants to date her".
How do I handle this?
Did not get a response for the flowers I sent and will not expect anything for the rind and necklace from the boys.
Just going to be a good dad.
Went this morning to talk to S6's teacher and vice principal and social worker. They gave me the run down on S6s behavior. More issues than I thought. Need to come up with a plan to help him.
I need to change things in the household to get the boys used to what they were doing before. Time to find a nanny instead of daycare and make sure the boys go to school on the bus and come home on the bus.
Yesterday the daycare center said that W called to put her on the email list that communicates the status of S2 and S4. Not sure if that is good or bad but glad she now wants to know how they are doing.
As for me, decided to stay the course and let the D play out and will stay in Michigan for a bit. Enough change has gone on that I don't want to have the boys endure more at this time.
There is still hope and maybe W will choose to still build the house in Toronto and live there on her own. We will see if she wants all of us to move there with her. Time will tell, but it will have to be all 6 of us.
W calls me twice today.
First call at 11:30 am and says that she really just wanted a break and space from me. She says she does not want to go through with the D but does not know how to stop it at this point. She is worried for the boys since their behavior is going the opposite direction. She was concerned about us because of the NC on Sunday. She asked again who was watching the boys and I told her the name of the friend of ours and she was like "oh, why didn't you say that in the first place"? She asked why I did not want to speak with her and I told her I was not in a good place at the time.
W calls a second time and says that she wants to reconcile and is willing to go to MC both here in Michigan and Toronto.
She stated she has seen change in me. I listen more and hear her.
She says she has 4 things she would like to see changed.
1. Quit Smoking.
Told W that I would like her to be supportive instead of getting upset. She said she understood and agreed we would find a way to support.
2. Proof that job transfer is coming.
Told her that I was committed to moving as I have stated earlier but cannot control the time frame. She said she understood and would like us to move as a family in to the new house being built.
3. Address issues face to face with her instead of running away.
She felt like I would stay at work to avoid issues or go off and do errands so that we would not discuss the R problems. I validated and said that I understood her point of view on this.
4. Make time for her and I and have work life balance. She felt last three years I was off working and did not make time for family and her. I travelled and she was alone with no support the first year and then things increased in responsibility as we added to the family.
I also stated that I need to see actions from her in order to move forward with this. She agreed that she would come back once she knew that we have a transfer date for work.
She asked how we can stop D and we agreed that we send email to Ls at the same time when she comes this week to pick up the boys for visit.
I have other things to address with her such as the EAs with OMs and getting her to commit to a date she will come back.
I don't feel excited about this at all. I am very skeptical that this is potentially manipulation tactics.
I plan on suggesting we put something in writing if this goes south and she and I cannot rebuild the R so we can go our separate ways.
Moving forward with a little hope and a lot of caution.
I'm dying to respond to you. Give me about an hour to get to my laptop and not this phone.
Ok....Took a bit longer than I hoped. W is pregnant and sick. Needless to say, S6 and I got her set up and then escaped for a little bit to a fun PlayPlace McDonald's to give her a good break.
You validating her concerns was great. Keep doing this. She is giving you a list of 180s to work on, and your responses matched them very well. Make sure you visibly do the work.
I also stated that I need to see actions from her in order to move forward with this.
Careful with this. As of yesterday your W was in a place where she thought she could do no wrong in this sitch. Do not push her away with making demands. It's ok if these come out as boundaries, such as when I told my W what transparency was when I stated it or when I said that I would only work on R if she went to Retrouvaille with me. One step at a time.
She agreed that she would come back once she knew that we have a transfer date for work.
She asked how we can stop D and we agreed that we send email to Ls at the same time when she comes this week to pick up the boys for visit.
I know you've been on the fence about the move. Are you fully ok with it? Same with stopping the D? Not telling you what to do. Just making sure.
I have other things to address with her such as the EAs with OMs and getting her to commit to a date she will come back.
Once again, don't push unless this a boundary. Furthermore, you really need to consider how much you need/want to know. I still do not know the total full details of my W's A. I don't need it. Others do.
I don't feel excited about this at all. I am very skeptical that this is potentially manipulation tactics.
Now to the part that gave me a red flag. You are going to be scared and suspicious, sure. I'd expect it, especially with the magical turn around your W gave today. It took me a couple weeks of temperature checking to start believing my W after she said it the first time (the first was not a full commitment). You need to watch for her taking action before giving her the full run of the farm.
I plan on suggesting we put something in writing if this goes south and she and I cannot rebuild the R so we can go our separate ways.
Did this come from your L? If not, this is very pushy and, depending upon her, enough for her to change her mind again.
Moving forward with a little hope and a lot of caution.
Yes. This. I know how badly you've wanted this. This is not a time for rash action, giving her the keys to the castle, or demanding everything all at once. If you guys are truly moving into Piecing, it will be just as delicate as the first part of your journey. To quote Wonka when I got into Piecing: "Don't stop DBing (or I will kill you)". Parentheses added for my interpretation of her words.
Lots of stuff going on wow..
The only thing I can respond to now is the gift. If your kids want to buy mom a gift. Help them pick out a kid appropriate gift. Like a rainbow PLASTIC necklace. Something that a kid obviously picked out. Or have them make candy necklaces or buy a kit they can create a necklace with. I certainly would not buy a fine piece of jewelry for your wife at this time.
I'm pretty happy to see this Jim. I think you are right to proceed cautiously. Yes, a ton of work ahead, but seems like DB worked right? And Squiggy, where can I see your initial story?
This sounds very encouraging. I know that things are very delicate right now, but it sounds like some real progress.
I'm particularly interested to hear how you consider deciding how to live in the same location again. My H and I are 5 hours apart right now, and that distance has really kind of put a hold on any real sense of progress. It allowed him to retreat to his corner and leave me in mine with almost no contact. It sounds like there are other parallels, as well, so your situation resonates with me. I wish you all the best.
Squiggly
I have a question regarding reconciliation that would be helpful to me as well.
A poster said to me that reconciliation should be more about communication, validation, and hearing one another out. Mediation is more about following lists of demands.
when you reconciled was there a list of compromises/demands that you each brought to the table? Is this a healthy way to reconcile a relationship or does it become a way of control and ultimatums for both parties?
There is something uncomfortable about it to me. Like my husband saying to me we can't reconcile unless you go back to work full time. (He hasn't said this yet but I think he might)
shreeve - Easy enough. Click on anyone's name and then go to View posts. From there click on Topics Created, and you should be able to find their initial posts.
JulieH - I'd love to see your source so I can get it in context. When I hear Mediation, I think of it in legal terms between two parties that are divorcing. Reconciliation is more about coming together and agreeing to work on the MR. I'll go into length here as I see it, because it is beneficial to all. That being said...
There are going to be compromises and "demands". The difference between your average person and us DBers is that our "demands" are actually Boundaries. A healthy, well-laid boundary is not an ultimatum, per se, but a statement of what you will and will not do. That's why we are coached and learn to only set truly important boundaries (infidelity, transparency, physical touch, abuse (P,S,E, and drug/alcohol, to give examples). Wonka has an amazing thread on boundaries that you can find in Cadet's initial list of homework. I took the crash course on boundaries with her's and Starsky's help.
Another way to think of it is addressing the issues of the previous marriage (the old marriage is dead, remember?) in a healthy way. Our spouses did leave for good reasons, despite the way they did it (e.g. infidelity as a result of no connection or being taken for granted - I can go on all day about reframing). Both parties need to change and address those issues. Us DBers do it through our 180s and GAL. As a couple we do this through communication, validation, hearing each other out, and compromising.
In my case, since you asked, yes. Her and I both had a list for each other, BUT we worked really hard to make it reasonable and achievable. Or, as I like to think of it, the minimum necessary to allow our M to be reforged. I required transparency (boundary), no more infidelity (boundary), return home (because of S6), and Retrouvaille. I was asked to listen, stop trying to fix unless asked, and spend more time with my family.
Let me know if you need more of an explanation or have more questions. I am far from a guru in DBing, but I will help as much as possible.
Squiggly,
I will try to find the post. It was a really insightful one.
Would returning back to work full time be a request to be put on a list as a necessary step for working on a marriage?
In jims case, is quitting smoking a fair request?
When does it become a way of controlling someone to do what they want. Kind of like "I'm not happy. I'm gonna leave. Then so they will do things my way I come back only if they agree to my terms".
I totally understand that fidelity, and transparency are necessary when there was an affair
Let me preface my answer by stating that these are my opinions only. You take what you want from them.
Would returning back to work full time be a request to be put on a list as a necessary step for working on a marriage?
In jims case, is quitting smoking a fair request?
Simply put, you are the one to determine that answer. Are you willing to go along with it? Is it something that you are completely against? What are your real, underlying reasons for saying no? Is it something you are willing to compromise, without compromising yourself, to save your marriage? Only you can answer that.
The flip side to this is whether or not the listed problems had anything to do with the breakdown of the marriage. Did Jim's smoking cause a significant amount of conflict or health issues? Is it a core issue or a grab for something they want? Does it compromise who you fundamentally are? Is it a reasonable request? Is it respectful? Does it break a stated boundary? These are the type of things to look for when determining whether or not the request is controlling.
What are YOU willing to do to save your marriage?
I have read your threads Jim.
I used to foster children with H1 and have never adopted.
I confess to a great deal of concern about your W, and until I examined some of my notes I was unsure why. I recollect fostering two children from a family of 6. The oldest two. The mother had a pathology where she only wanted to look after babies and children to school age. When the children reached five or six years old she 'discarded' them, she was prosecuted for neglect of her older children. Then she had another baby.
This woman went on to have five more children with two different fathers. She was only really interested in the children under 4. She once told me babies were 'cute and loveable'. She only visited her children in foster care twice in six months, they were adopted eventually.
There was to me some striking statements in your posts, for instance your W has said she wants the two youngest immediately. Your W stated there were other ways of having babies, she may want one of her own.
I am not saying this is the case with you and W although I am pondering at the upheaval you are considering so that W can parent. W has left her children and moved to another country, parents generally don't just leave their children in this way, they do most anything to be with them, near them, they put their children first above any personal needs.
W may actually only prefer the younger boys and if she has another baby then that could be quite damaging especially to the older boys. You clearly love your children and I do not doubt that W does although her behaviour at this stage is inconsistent.
I agree with your L to stay where you are, I do not doubt your ability to cope or parent. You are clearly the more stable parent at this stage and this is so difficult with 5 boys which you have adopted. I deeply respect your objective to hold your family together.
Like Julie and Sandi I worry about your W feelings of entitlement, suppose she spoke to an OM in Mexico and wanted to move there, would you uproot?
You may consider moving to be with W and then moving back? The effect on your family in this is worrying.
W necklace from OM is a red flag for me.
I remain unconvinced your W skills to parent the older boys (I do not doubt your skills and willingness) and the support she has with her family seems inadequate.
W stated she was unhappy with your M and yet together you adopted two more boys. The process for adoption here in the UK is very strict and I would suspect so in your state. That is a great deal of cover up to you and the adoption authorities of her unhappiness. Adopotion and long term fostering come with additional responsibilities with children of difficult backgrounds, especially when children are from different family groups. I know you know this and have stated you will parent and support your children.
Men can be the stronger better and more stable parent for their children. I am minded of Irish M, RD and Joe (there are many more wonderful fathers who have posted).
Your children come first above everything else. Jellyb is wise in her advice on this and I defer to her better judgement.
I am expressing my concerns in case they are of value, if I am overstepping I apologise.
V
Thank you Squiggy
I will be careful not to ask/demand anything from her.
Yes, I am ok with the move. Always was, just wanted it to be as a family.
Spoke to L about the D. She said put it on hold for now.
MC is set up for this Tuesday for W and I, she agreed to it.
She also asked if she could stay at the house from Thursday through next Tuesday and we can do things as a family instead of going back to Toronto since she has to be back for MC. I said that was thoughtful and would like that.
OK, no discussion on EAs.
I will tread lightly on the last three suggestions you gave me. Thanks again.
Jim, also make sure you are not a wet noodle that bends to your wife's every demand. V brought up very good points, in her magical way, that I was unable to verbalize. Your W left you, moved countries, demanded your balls in her hand, and possibly had an A.
If you do not make changes now to the marriage, then you will be back here again.
I'm not trying to be mean, Jim. I'm just concerned and want nothing but the best for you and your boys.
V
Thank you for the input. IMHO I don't think she is just looking to raise the boys that are just under school age. I guess that is still to be seen by her actions.
Your input is priceless.
She is arriving tomorrow night and staying until Tuesday so this will be a good trial run on how things will be in the future.
W and I are going to have apps and spend one on one time tomorrow night. I lined up a sitter for the boys after they go to bed.
We are going to take the boys swimming at the gym on Saturday and she said she will cook dinner on Sunday for the family.
Question, what do I do if she wants to be intimate?
Squiggy,
No more wet noodle for me. I have my boundaries and will stick to them.
What is she is on the phone with OM/new friends? I plan on being "as if". Is that the right approach?
Jim
There is a joke here in the UK, how do you like your eggs in the morning?
Response unfertilised.
Play it safe, I am liberal on the ML thing, whatever works. You are M.
You have a boundary on OM don't you? Enforce it as your boundary.
You have the power in this sitch. Transparency if WW doesn't want it then think again, you will be moving into OM home territory. That would not be my choice in an active A sitch.
V
V
She actually asked if we need to get tested. I told her I do not and asked if she does and she stated no.
I believe she has more of an EA than a PA but I will have to tread lightly on when I bring this up.
So why did she ask?
It can't be she thinks you had a PA?
Thought not!
V
Hello everyone.
I apologize for not posting sooner. Did not have any alone time to be able to update.
W decided to stay here for her visit with the boys and we are going to MC tomorrow.
This past weekend has been up and down. W and I had fun together. We went out to dinner on Thursday and had a good time at a new restaurant that we had not been to.
Friday was her day to spend with the boys while I was working.
Saturday and Sunday kind of went back to our normal routine.
W has been up and down about things. She is not happy she is back but says she is doing it for the sake of the boys.
We have conversations about the boys and our R and each time she talks about it she blames everything on me.
I am still validating her comments and working on my 180s.
Things seem to be going well but have a long road ahead.
She starts to explain to me that all she wanted was space and for me to pursue her and the boys and be in Toronto together as a family.
Many things she stated are clear to me now but were not 2 months ago.
She has committed to spend more time in Michigan but stated she will need certain weekends off to go back to Toronto. I was surprised she offered this up but praised her for the decision she made to come raise the boys knowing that she does not want to live in Michigan any more.
She stated that she thought that when we adopted the boys that she would be ok with just being a mom but she admitted she needs more than that. I was supportive and told her I understood and will support her in her new endeavors however I can.
She continues to question the R but also speaks positively about things for the sake of the boys. That we will be moving into the new house together as a family.
She also stated she felt like a horrible person to me. She was upset and started crying because she stated that she needed to untangle some relationships back in Toronto.
I asked her if there was anything I should know about? She asked "what would you like to know?" I stated that maybe we should table the details for another time. So we just left it at her admitting that she has gone out and "dated" at least 2 if not more OMs.
One in particular she admitted was pressuring her a lot. She stated she would need to return the necklace he gave her. I played it off like "OK understand".
W is a psychology major and has made a lot of valid points about my reactions to things in the past that have made a negative contribution to the R. The good thing is she sees that I am changing. I just hope that I can continue to do this and give her the comfort level she is looking for sometime down the road. At this point she is still very angry with me as she continues to blame me for keeping her away from her baby and states she will never forgive me for that.
How do you get someone to forgive?
Apologize for being long winded, I will post more specific sitches in the future.
That's a lot to digest, Jim. You need to be very careful here. I think she made it very clear that she is still wayward. I don't want you to act on impulse and welcome her back without commitment back to the M.
She is spewing at you and blaming EVERYTHING on you without taking any responsibility for her actions or contributions, even though she has been horrible to you? Surely a psych major (which holds no bones in the psych world, btw) would be able to see that relationships are complicated dichotomies based upon the interactions of both parties where each member plays a role in the homeostasis that is developed... I could go into this at length, since my specialization is in family.
Good job on validating her identifying areas of improvement, and at the same time make sure you are making these changes for yourself. Your W should appreciate and love you for who you are, not what you've done for her.
She starts to explain to me that all she wanted was space and for me to pursue her and the boys and be in Toronto together as a family.
You or OM(s) to pursue her? I'm kind of hesitant about believing this statement....
She is not happy she is back but says she is doing it for the sake of the boys.
Is that enough for you? Evidence demonstrates that staying married for the sake of the children could be even more detrimental than divorce. As a matter of fact, a "low conflict" divorce is more damaging than an abusive one to the children. Look into this fact.
She was upset and started crying because she stated that she needed to untangle some relationships back in Toronto.
I asked her if there was anything I should know about? She asked "what would you like to know?" I stated that maybe we should table the details for another time. So we just left it at her admitting that she has gone out and "dated" at least 2 if not more OMs.
So what you are your transparency and NC plans?
How do you get someone to forgive?
You don't. You continue to grow and make the changes you need to within and for yourself. It is then up to them to make the decision to forgive or not. Stay within what you can control.
So let me get this straight. Your very WW comes back, calls it reconciling,and
she lays out the stipulations that
you have to do to keep her there? She blames you for everything and you are basically validating and catering?
Sigh...........
Squiggly,
She stated she wanted me to pursue her. Not sure I believe this statement anymore either but on Friday she said that she has some relationships she needs to untangle back in Toronto.
Her being back for the boys is enough for me right now. They miss her and they are having issues with her being gone. She set a schedule and will be back for about a week and a half at a time. Can't predict the future on whether she will choose to go through with the D but I have to let things play out. Right now D is on hold.
Back to the untangling statement. I did not put any demands in front of her but told her I understood her sitch. As far as NC, I will continue to speak to her about the kids and not ask anything unless she wants to share. She stated one person was pushing hard for an R with her and that she needed to meet with him to give him back the necklace. I told her to do what she needs to do. She did want to be intimate with me on Thursday and Friday and we were. She slept in our bed all weekend.
I let myself get sucked in to kind of the same routine again over the time she was here but realize on need to improve my DB skills some more. We spoke on the phone on Monday while I was at work and she said that it drives her crazy that I keep using these passive/validating statements with her that she thinks I am getting from my therapist. She stated that she interprets that as me saying "whatever".
She asked me to tell her how I really felt. So I did but not sure that moved things in a positive direction because Monday night she was distant from me.
Although this was the first of many days that we will be together in the near future, I have learned that I have to hone my skills on DBing.
Sandi,
She continues to change the story all the time. The only thing I have ever stated to her is that she can't have everything. Probably the wrong statement to make.
I have told her that she has made choices also and that she plays a part in this. Every time I do this she becomes more distant.
She continues to say we need to be in the same city for the sake of the kids and I told her that if she chooses to have us live separately that is no different than a D and that the boys will always have a hole in their hearts by not having both parents living under the same roof. She pushes back by saying "see it is always about you and me and not about the boys". These are probably things I should not say.
We went to MC today. I liked the therapist. She gathered some history about us. Therapist asked what were the positives that I thought about W. I told her my list. W then was asked the same question and she did not have a whole lot of positives to say about me anymore.
Therapist realizes that W is still very angry with me. We have IC sessions set up for next week.
I don't think the session went well today because I started to say how I felt and she continued to react as if we were having an argument but this time it was without yelling because we were had another person in the room with us.
Anxiety and emotions are high with me again. Glad I get a break from her for a few more days since she is going back to Toronto. Can move on with doing what needs to get done around the house.
On the plus side, she did laundry and a few more things than I thought she would while she was here.
On a positive note, therapist did ask if W has seen changes in me and W did agree even though they may be small.
Will continue to fight the good fight.
Her being back for the boys is enough for me right now. They miss her and they are having issues with her being gone. She set a schedule and will be back for about a week and a half at a time. Can't predict the future on whether she will choose to go through with the D but I have to let things play out. Right now D is on hold.
Plus, she has R's she needs to still untangle? Do you even know if she's calling this reconciling or not?
I think you are making a mistake, but you are going to do what you want to do. I know it must be terrible seeing those little boys suffer. It just makes me angry to know she chose to break the family apart, and she's the one who took off.....now she has the gall to tell you that you both need to live in the same town (meaning of course, you moving to
her town).
I don't buy into her wanting you to pursue her. What she wants is to have men pursue her. She is very wayward and just b/c she came home for a couple of days, does not change that fact.
What really concerns me, too, is the fact she told you there was another man who was pushing for a R, and she said she was there just for the boys.....and then you have sex with her? Please.....please, do not have unprotected sex when you know she's has been dating and possibly engaging in sex with someone else. Somehow, I just don't see her being completely honest about everything. Protect yourself.
Yes, you got sucked in, alright.....and temperature checked real good!
Your wife needs a few truth darts and some boundaries.
Those boys need her in their home town, demonstrating that she can be present and prioritising them and her marriage.
Wife needs put her Big Girl Panties on and Woman Up and you should be encouraging her to do so.
She has clearly expressed her desires for you to change. What do you and the boys need.
I am not sure why you are not using a children's therapist or social worker to negoitate her contact with the children.
Let them deliver her the news of what is in the children's best interest. If you don't feel able to deliever the boundary get someone into help. Let a therapist or social worker assist you to work through the barriers. Then see what she says and does.
To note I am not talking about marriage counselling. I am talking about an advocate for the children, whose primary interest and representation is for the children and there needs.
Sometimes Jim we need reinforcements. Your kids certainly do.
Your gorgeous boys have already been mightly f*** over by adults in their lives. What now we let them be exposed to a second round.
Jim I know you are trying to save your marriage with the woman you love, I get it. But man. This is hard to watch on your children's behalf.
Sorry Jim, not my ususal, carefully considered approach to offering supporr.
Sandi, Jelly,
I will look into getting a social worker for the boys so that they can have an advocate.
You're a good man Jim, honourable and kind. What you are doing isn't easy. I have a huge amount of respect for you. So cheerleading you from the sidelines!!!
Much love Jelly xxx
Sandi, Jelly,
I will look into getting a social worker for the boys so that they can have an advocate.
I like this very much indeed.
Your WW is wilful and out of control. Acting like a diva.
Please get tested if you had unprotected sex. Your health is very important, you are the more stable parent for your boys. I agree with Sandi and Jellyb, your WW is having a fabulous time with days of freedom and nights off to be out of control.
This truly isn't for the stability of your family. WW has to learn the consequences of her choices. At the moment there are no consequences. Have you considered WW may be trying to get pregnant?
Protect yourself as much as possible!
V
Jelly,
So she has seen that the boys need her and she has proposed that she will be here most of the time but have me keep the boys on the weekends. She came up with a schedule for the next 4 weeks.
While she is gone I do not plan on doing her duties unless I absolutely have to.
Due to the issues that the boys are having at school and the way they are acting she is coming back to take care of them but on her schedule. Do I tell her she needs to be back full time or don't come back at all? If I do that, it will only turn into an argument that she will want to start and will continue to blame me.
As my DB coach has stated, get her to negotiate with me. Although she has seen changes in me, I have seen changes in her also. Although it may not seem that negotiating is the right thing to do, it has drawn her back to the marital home to do her duty as a mother even though it may not be full time.
Although her requests of me may seem frivolous to most people, they are important to her and not unreasonable requests to me. Don't know if the changes will save my M but she does see me differently now but she is still a roller coaster of emotions.
I am trying to keep my emotions out of the picture. To be honest, I did not think that she would be back this soon or offer to come back at all.
I don't know how to bring up my boundaries. How do I say them to her?
My boundaries would be as follows:
Cut off contact will all OMs "fiends". How do I get her to prove that she has?
When she was back she took care of things that a mom should.
The only other thing I would like from her is to treat me with respect. This weekend she started to just order me around. Everytime she did this I would stop and look at her and ask her to say please. She was frustrated at first because I would not do what she asked and walked away. She then quickly changed her tune and started to say please. She asked me why I was treating her like that and I told her it was rude that she was ordering me around and since then she always added please to every request.
I don't mind doing things I just want to be treated as an equal.
[quote=JimKao]Jelly,
So she has seen that the boys need her and she has proposed that she will be here most of the time but have me keep the boys on the weekends. She came up with a schedule for the next 4 weeks.
While she is gone I do not plan on doing her duties unless I absolutely have to.
Due to the issues that the boys are having at school and the way they are acting she is coming back to take care of them but on her schedule.
Do I tell her she needs to be back full time or don't come back at all?
Without legal advice then I don't think this ultimatum is possible. Please document when WW is with you and the children. You will need to have reports that this is damaging for the stability of the boys.
If I do that, it will only turn into an argument that she will want to start and will continue to blame me.
No matter what you do this will happen
As my DB coach has stated, get her to negotiate with me. Although she has seen changes in me, I have seen changes in her also. Although it may not seem that negotiating is the right thing to do, it has drawn her back to the marital home to do her duty as a mother even though it may not be full time.
If that is coaches advice then go with that, especially if it is working.
Although her requests of me may seem frivolous to most people, they are important to her and not unreasonable requests to me. Don't know if the changes will save my M but she does see me differently now but she is still a roller coaster of emotions.
negotiation is about exchange. I do this and you do that plus I give this and you give that. Something important to one may seem frivolous to another. A bargain is struck.
I am trying to keep my emotions out of the picture. To be honest, I did not think that she would be back this soon or offer to come back at all.
You bargained for this so why shouldn't she if it was a successful deal for her and you
I don't know how to bring up my boundaries. How do I say them to her?
if bargaining has worked so far then do that. Some things may be non negotiable. Such as no ML if you have sex with OM. They are your boundaries.
My boundaries would be as follows:
Cut off contact will all OMs "fiends". How do I get her to prove that she has?
You can only set boundaries for your behaviour not yours. I notice the Freudian slip, very appropriate. This isn't a boundary you can enforce.
When she was back she took care of things that a mom should.
Thats good, she met the bargain.
The only other thing I would like from her is to treat me with respect. This weekend she started to just order me around.
Walk away when she does this.
Everytime she did this I would stop and look at her and ask her to say please.
So please go punch yourself in the foot and jump off the cliff is ok if she says Please go punch yourself in the foot and jump off the cliff please?
She was frustrated at first because I would not do what she asked and walked away.
She would be and this is the best stance in my view. Or you could say "really" or "what was that you said?" And "please repeat that".
You can always validate her frustration "I understand this is frustrating for you and I have decide that I will be treated with respect."
She then quickly changed her tune and started to say please. She asked me why I was treating her like that and I told her it was rude that she was ordering me around and since then she always added please to every request.
It would be better to validate instead and cease to label her as rude. Talk about this from your view as in "when you speak to me like this I feel disrespected and am resistant to cooperating with you. If this continues then I will walk away to another room." This boundary is I will be respected.
I don't mind doing things I just want to be treated as an equal.
Then respect yourself and set your boundaries. You need L advice and a full evaluation for the kids I think. Kids come first. Their stability and to me it seems like you are the more stable parent for these boys and more than capable of being there for them. It still reads like rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.
------------------------------------
Can you get extra help in real life?
Mari
As my DB coach has stated, get her to negotiate with me. Although she has seen changes in me, I have seen changes in her also. Although it may not seem that negotiating is the right thing to do, it has drawn her back to the marital home to do her duty as a mother even though it may not be full time.
Negotiate what?
I am wondering if you are misunderstanding something we have said.
I understand negotiations. I went back to read your post about your W again. I saw no negotiations. I saw her telling you how it would be,
period. Maybe you left part of it out, but I didn't see where you were telling her anything. I didn't see where she was agreeing to anything. What was negotiated? She told you she had to have her weekends free to go back to Canada. I didn't see the two of you really reconciling, she shed some tears and the two of you had sex, and she just told you how things would be.
Listen Jim, I have been active on this board for nine years, and I have watched WW's twist things around and make the LBH feel that
he is guilty for breaking up the family and all the while
she is the one who is wayward and living as though she is not a married lady and the mother of children! Look at this:
At this point she is still very angry with me as she continues to blame me for keeping her away from her baby and states she will never forgive me for that. How do you get someone to forgive?
She left without her baby, did she not? That was the choice she made! She was willing to break apart the children! Now she is telling you that she will never forgive you for keeping her away from her baby? All she had to do was go home! And you immediately act as though it is all your fault and wanting
her to forgive
you. That's odd, b/c at the time, you thought you were doing what was best, didn't you? So why, now, are you willing to cow down and act guilty, especially when she says she will
NEVER forgive you? Let me tell you something very important here.....this woman will hold that over your head from here on out! Are you real sure you want to live in that for the rest of your life? If she has warned before she even gets back into the house, then you can expect it to be worse after she's come home.
Look, nobody here is trying to prevent you and your W from negotiating on logistics. She doesn't have to stay with you as your W. She can stay in the same town, and be there for her kids and get therapy. She didn't have to have sex with you, either, if she was just there for the sake of the kids. Tears and sex, oh boy! Works like a charm.
So, what part of all this was
your negotiation?
Did you really read those links Cadet sent you?
My suggestion is to get your head on straight, and tell her you think the two of you went a little fast and need to talk and think some more about what will be expected if she moves back into the home.
Are you still with us, Jim?
Hi Sandi,
Apologize, been a little busy.
This is definitely a roller coaster ride.
W is still up and down. We went to MC and it was a complaint session. Not what I had hoped for. She had nothing good to say about me. We both went a few days later for IC. Things went OK at the sessions and then last night she discussed all the upgrades that she made on the new house and then was upset with me because she has not seen the papers to dismiss the D. L finally got back to me today and said she would file on Monday. W still says she wants D. Guess she will have to file again for it to happen or not sign the dismissal. I am done with the roller coaster. Still waiting to hear about my move to Toronto. HR is dragging their feet to get back to me.
She will always find fault in me and there is nothing I can do about that. I thanked her for making me realize who I am and told her that she is now in charge of the fate of the family.
My happiness will come from knowing who I am and doing what I can for me and the boys. Don't need her approval. She will have to figure out how to raise them on her own.
Have another session of MC this Thursday and DB coaching session tomorrow morning.
I will miss my boys dearly and hope they will understand when they are older that I did all I could for them.
All I can say is this next week will be interesting.
My heart is broken and anxiety comes and goes by the minute. Time will heal all those feelings. I hope sooner than later.
I am not sure what you are really saying. You are moving to Toronto, okay. Are you and W going to stay under the same roof....in a new house....but not as man & wife? But you said you would miss the boys, so I am confused.
What are the plans for Jim?
At this point it is unclear whether we will all be under the same roof. W's feelings are so up and down I am having a hard time reading between the lines. In one sentence she says she will live with them, in the next she says I should.
I am prepared either way. Long term my hope is to be in the new house with the boys and W.
Spoke with DB coach this morning and he stated to continue to be calm and not let her complaining get the best of me. Be chivalrous which attracted her to me.
L is unfiling on Monday. Sent W a text this morning about that and she has not responded. I am hoping she will come back Sunday to take care of boys. We will see where things go.
But are you prepared to stay under the same roof if she has not changed? It is obvious you would do anything for your kids, however, if she is still playing games and won't behave herself........it will be a miserable situation for you.
We all are pulling for you, Jim. I am just so sorry this has happened to your family. Please keep posting, b/c we care and want to hear from you as often as possible.
Yes I am prepared to stay under the same roof even if she has not changed. I am more prepared now than ever. Continue to act as if and live my life how I want to live it.
She is action driven so I am hoping I would have passed a huge hurdle by moving up there.
Spoke to W today. She stated she is not coming back until she sees the dismissal for the D. I understand her point of view. She should see it by early next week.
At least we are negotiating now.
We spoke calmly to each other which was nice.
A lot of what happens next will depend on offer from work and how I transition.
I explained to her that since a lot of money was wasted on Ls that it would be nice if I could work some OT. I guess we will have to have the discussion and come to an agreement on what weekends I can work so we can recoup some of the money.
Little by little, day by day is all I can ask for.
I don't feel good about you living under the same roof and her not making any changes, but that's your business. IMHO, it could set a poor relationship role model for five boys. Eventually she will get bolder in her dating, and more disrespectful toward you. If you could see this in one weekend, how much worse will become once her security is set? She has a reason for wanting to see evidence of withdraw of the divorce. That frees her to have the best, without requiring her to make changes.
I did not say this to beat you up, Jim. It just really saddens me to see a man accept the type of unexclusive terms that you, apparently, are willing to do.
Sandi,
I am not saying I will be in the relationship if she is dating. That is a deal breaker for me. I will not stay in the relationship if that is still going on. I am not sure what the right time is to ask her to be transparent about her cutting those relationships off. I can tell you the last time she was here that she was not having any conversations with the person who gave her the necklace.
I have my limits and will clearly define them but I am trying to take stock at the same time and want to ensure this is moving in a positive direction for all of us.
Well we both signed the papers and cancelled the D.
Still waiting for transfer. We spoke on the phone today. 4 weeks and no response from HR on when I am moving. Doesn't matter anyway since this morning she stated that she does not want to be with me. Yet we are still married. None of this makes sense to me. I am angry again because I thought that reconciling was going to be working on saving the marriage. No longer the case based on her comments this morning. It is to fix me.
I think she still feels that I am not moving up there.
She broke my heart again this morning and I tried as best as I could not to get emotional. I am tired of the roller coaster ride and now feel I am back to square 1 with the actions that I took and did not take. Could have easily had all the kids stay with me until they are 18 and had her be the part time mom. Now the tables are turned and cannot read between the lines at all on what she really wants.
I am a fool.
So....ready to start DBing yet?
If yes, go read through all your posts again for feedback and start implementing them.
I hate to say it, but this is what we were warning you about. I truly do feel sorry that you had to experience this.
I am confused - the D is off, but there is no reconciliation hope according to her. What have you tried with regards to DB'ing? Detaching, 180's, or GAL'ing? I am not sure what to post or if I can encourage you or be of any help…..Seems like it would be a bad time to move though if the situation is so fluid….
Jim,
How hard would it be to put the divorce back on? It appears that your WAW wants to have it both ways, stay M but not together with you.
As Sandi said, you need to make sure she's willing to commit to the marriage before you invest yourself in reconciliation.
So what are your plans about moving? If you don't move to Toronto, will she still move into the new house?
Sandi
I am moving to Toronto. She is still at her parents house and has the 2 uear old. Found out I will be moving by tje end of the month. I guess we will see where the future will hold. I have a feeling she will not move into the place I find and will stay at her parents until the new house is built even though I have done eveything she has asked. I do not contact her unless it has to do with the boys and she and I no longer talk about anything else. I guess she is done with being my W.
Well it sounds like it is over. Her idea of reconciling is coparenting. I hope my boys realize how selfish she is when they are older.
Squiggy,
I also had a feeling that this would happen. All I can say is that I will go there and try but as Sandi stated, 100% of what W says are lies. I cannot believe I married a person like her. I am very angry again to the point that I just want to move on with my life and not have anything to do with her. She expects me to take the kids to extracurricular activities like swim classes. Why should I do that if she is the one with custody. This woman needs serious mental help, she is not stable and all she is doing is damaging the lives of 5 boys.
I know when I move up there I will have them more than I can imagine.
Jim, would like to hear how you are doing.
Hello Sandi,
I guess I am doing OK. I have come to terms that I cannot change who she is and will have to deal with whatever her choices are. She is happy that we have sold the house and that I a moving up to Toronto and that I want to be friends with her.
I still have dreams that she is with other men and sometimes have trouble sleeping.
Overall I am at about 70% good with myself. I know who I am. I am a good person. I can only do what I can each day. I sometimes feel numb going through the motions of getting the boys off to school and doing things at work but I have been smiling more often.
This is what I find most difficult. Smiling and having fun. I am a laid back person and don't want much other than my kids to be happy and my W.
I guess lately here are the positives.
D is dismissed.
I will be friends with my W and separated. Can't control what she will do in the future but I am content with who I am.
I am doing everything I can for my boys.
Live day by day and enjoy every moment I have with my kids.
Make it a point to smile every day and tell myself I am a good person.
Well, I hate to see you settle, but you have to do what is right for you. I hope you will build a life outside of the W and kids.
You are a good man, Jim. You are sacrificing for those kids. I hope you will not become isolated and have nobody but the kids. Meet people and make new friends.
I hope you won't stop posting. ((hugs))
Sandi
As my DB coach said. I need to be consistent with the way I act. First step is to be friends with her. He says I will not get to the next level without being a friend first.
I have no problem making friends. I have some froends in Toronto. The next move is hers.
Question: Do I tell my boys that W is dating an OM?
Did you ask the coach about it?
Sandi
I did not ask the coach. I will next time. Today I dropped the kids off to visit with her in Toronto. We had lunch together as a family and then she wanted to talk. She wanted to talk about us being friends. Again we went around in circles about the past.
I asked if she is dating and she admitted she is. I told her great have a good time and hooe she finds what she wants. I told her I am willing to be friends to discuss the boys but other than that she is not a friend to me.
I said I just want to move on. Since the D is dismissed she is now driving the fate of the family and will have to explain to the boys what is happening. Told her if she wants to discuss MR then call me otherwise I dont want to hear from her.
I stated I have given all I can give.
Well,
It sounds like we will be back in courts to see who will get custody of the boys.
She continues to date OMs which she admitted this past weekend. I stated that I am glad she is happy.
I also tried to explain the financial impact of us getting a D. None of that mattered to her. She feels that her job is being a stay at home mom and that since we grew apart that she is OK with being part of the statistics of those who get a D.
We spoke for 3 hours yesterday on the phone and she continued to get angry with me. We just don't fundamentally agree on anything anymore. Based on this conversation my heart has no more love for her as a W. It is in my best interest and the boys to stay where we are and I plan to fight for my family.
She cannot let go of the past and forgive. She asked if I could forgive her for dating and I said yes. She did not know what to say to that but her issues are much deeper than the actions that drove us to this point.
Let's hope the legal system will be on my side.
Be sure to get a lawyer who will fight for the father's rights! You probably have documented just how little she has been with the kids since she took off to Canada. If nothing else, you can refer back to your threads to help you with some dates, etc.
My heart hurts for you and the boys, but it's hard to find sympathy for a woman who refuses to get a job and uses her kids as her excuse...yet she doesn't want to behave like a responsible & mature mother.
Jim, please keep us posted as to how things go. I am sure your hands will be full, yet I feel you can do what you need to do. And, never doubt that you are a good dad! Who knows what she may try to pull, but don't let her scare you. You've got this, okay?
((hugs))
So today we spoke and she said she is finding a new L and going to ask for change of domicile for the boys. She said she wants 50/50 custody. She asks why we can't come up with a solution for the boys.
I am fine with whatever the courts decide and she keeps arguing why we have to take it to court.
Again she keeps saying she is not going to work so I guess she will just be living with her parents. She said she is going to finish the basement to add another room at her parents house and now sell the house that is being built.
I did everything I could to save the M and she is not interested so now I am going to protect my rights as a father and keep my boys.
She stated she would move to Michigan to have 50/50 and in the next breath she says we need to figure out a way to have 50/50 custody with her living in Toronto.
I don't know how this will go but it will be difficult for the entire family.
So DB coach says that I really have not changed. He says that I continue to be as much of a roller coaster as she is.
I said it is time for me to drop the rope. I cannot let someone continue to manipulate me into doing things and not get anything in return. I value who I am too much and have recently realized this.
I know from W's perspective that she will validate she is correct, that I haven't changed since I am not moving to Toronto, but I am not going to be a door mat either and allow her to justify her actions of dating an OM to be OK. That is my boundary. I have more self respect for myself than that and will not allow her to make me feel guilty for choosing this path instead.
I suppose time will tell if she will ever wake up and see what a good person I am and come back, in the mean time we will be growing apart and both love our 5 boys the best we can.
Are your boys in Michigan or Toronto currently?
Seems like a custody nightmare across national borders!
So DB coach says that I really have not changed. He says that I continue to be as much of a roller coaster as she is.
What did the coach suggest you do?
If she wants 50-50 then she has to move close by. No judge will move the kids from their school area. So at best she gets visitation when she come to Michigan and then alternating holidays and maybe half the summer. something like that.
Sandi,
He said I need to take care of myself. I have not gained any weight back that I have lost.
He also feels that I still have resentment towards her even though I don't think I do. I still care about her and wish things would be different but I have to stop asking her to reconcile. I just don't think I should expose myself to living in the same city just so she can cake eat and have me available when she feels and use the boys as an excuse. It is 25% more expensive to live there and if we are separated then it makes things even more difficult yet she does not understand that.
Yesterday she could not believe I changed my mind about transferring to Toronto. I cannot give anymore without getting some respect from her and that would mean no more OM.
They are currently in Toronto but we are meeting halfway tomorrow to have them come back to Michigan.
Is it wrong from me to act and file for D? I can no longer take this roller coaster ride. I would prefer to improve myself and rebuild the R with her after the D at this point unless by some miracle she has an epiphany which I doubt will happen.
Her expectations are so high I can't keep up. She has an excuse for every action I take to stay away from the R no matter how positive the outcome. The fact that I had everything in the works and was moving forward with moving to Toronto was not enough for her to work on the R, so why would I go?
Sandi,
Would really appreciate any advice you have based on my last posts. I know that W filed now because I am not moving up to Toronto but was it correct for me to have my boundary be that she not date anymore?
I just could not be a door mat any longer in this R. If she wants to go have another R I am good with letting her go.
Today she calls and wants to discuss how to split assets.
She also wanted to find out where I am moving since the house sold. I did not tell her I rescinded the offer but I have my L working on saving my home now also.
All her deceptions have now put us in more financial ruin.
I feel I can no longer discuss anything with her because she just wants to get everything over with quickly while I am letting the system take care of the process.