Here again after 9 years and struggling 4

Old thread

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2644058&page=1

Hey inpain,

I just wanted to let you know we're here for you. Im struggling tonight too.

Think of each tear as a tiny bit of detachment because that's what they are. Cry it out.

How are you holding up inpain?

Hi in pain. I hope you're doing OK.
We're here for you.
Hi Thornton, that's good advice. I should be pretty detached by now, if every tear is a little bit more letting go.

Take care, everyone.

Hi inpain, just got done reading your thread. Hope you are doing okay. Just know there is a lot of support on here for you when you need it.

Hoping you're okay Inpain.

Hi Thornton, NYGal, Rednail and Rain, thank you for your posts.

I'm not doing very well. In floods of tears right now again. We have argued tonight and now I'm so upset and scared that that means there is no chance of R now.

He came round at 6:30pm again despite knowing I needed to use the car to run an errand with D. D had a meltdown about going out which ended in me having to tell her off. H was down stairs while this was going on. When I got down stairs he asked me if she was being difficult so I said yes. He then asked if he'd done something wrong as he felt like I was being snappy with him!?!? I just don't understand where he's coming from to keep asking me if he's done something wrong. Does he not think leaving his wife and kids is doing something wrong?!?! Am I supposed to be happy about it and OK with him for doing it? Anyway, I let it slide and D and I went out leaving S at home with H.

When we got back it was already close to bed time so I said they both needed to go upstairs and bath/shower etc ready for bed. Tantrums from S followed as he hadn't had a chance to play on PS with H. I asked why he hadn't done that while D and I were out, we'd been out an hour. H said S hadn't been interested in playing together, S said H had just been sat on his phone and hadn't been interested. They had a quick game and H was his usual snappy self with S - it is like watching two children not a father and son. Always been the same.

I was busy downstairs and H went upstairs to say his goodbyes. S came down and asked what were we going to do about Dad. I asked what he meant and he said that Dad was in such a bad mood. I told S there wasn't much we could do about that unfortunately.

When I went upstairs with S, H said goodbye and was going to leave. He is taking D to a party tomorrow as I have a meeting. I asked him if he's also collecting her from school and he asked why he needed to!! I said I just thought he would collect her seeing as he's taking her to the party. He started shouting about not even knowing what time the party is and that he has to literally beg for information about anything that is going on these days! I asked him why he was shouting and he said he didn't know how I dared because all I do is shout. I queried this as it is completely unfounded. He said all I'd done tonight was shout at the kids. I couldn't believe what I was hearing! Yes, I'd told D off during the going out incident and I'd also had to tell S off twice and he equates it to me doing nothing but shout!

I'd already told him what time the party was when I asked him if he could take D but of course he's forgotten that and just accused me of not telling him. Then he said I insinuated he would be late for the party if he didn't pick D up from school. Again I was confused as to how I've insinuated this just by asking him if he's collecting her. I said I just thought he wouldn't want to exchange kids with my Mum if my Mum collected her from school. He left very angry saying he would collect her. Slammed the door, slammed the gate, slammed the car door.

I feel like this whole thing is going rapidly down the plug hole. I don't understand what I'm doing wrong to keep having these arguments. Now I'm sitting here distraught that it's all over.

IP I'm not as good as others, but I will let it wash over you. Tomorrow is a brand new day. Maybe your H had a bad day at work and maybe he took his frustration on you. Not fair I know, and try to embrace tomorrow with a beginner's mind.

We don't really know what is going on in our H's head. Don't try to over analyse as you are only going to hurt you.

Thinking of you :-)

IP - the only thing you can control is you. Is it possible that the pain you are suffering is making you snappy?

If so, I get it. But you need to foster an environment that makes your house a safe place for your H. ACT AS IF you are just fine. Fake it! Always remain calm around him. When he leaves, then you can punch a pillow and write an angry letter to him that you never send.

It's not too late and you can still turn it around.

Inpain...I have been here too. It's insane to me as well that they don't acknowledge that us being sad or on edge or whatever is because of what they've done. But right now they don't believe that. They can't. The guilt would be overwhelming.

And the projecting and exaggerating they do is maddening. Him saying that ALL you do is shout. Come on IP...you know it's not true and so does H. But again, from my own situation and reading here about our fellow DBers it is common. They feel a need to villanize us, especially when they're feeling down, to justify their crazy.

I'm not going to tell you to rise above it or to pretend right now. He left for the night and the kids are in bed. Cry if you need to. Beat a pillow or scream into it.

But Rouky and Thornton are right. Tomorrow is a new day sweetie. You can turn it around. If tonight would have been the straw that broke the camels back R wise he could have very well told you he was going to his lawyer tomorrow. He didn't. And hey, even if he did. So what? Anna's H did just that and has never turned the papers in.

It was just a tough few days is all. Re-read DR. I took mine out to read tonight as XF is meant to come by tomorrow. I want to really get into the 180s in case he actually shows up.

We are sad, heart broken, angry and frustrated and at our wits end. We have a right to be. But has showing them this helped us in any way? Has it brought us closer to them? No and no.

So, and you know this from last time, are we going to keep doing it or find something new, something different? I vote for new ans different. And a baby step in that direction are the 180s. How different would the past days have gone had you not done "more of the same"? Had you not given H exactly was he assumes he can expect from you?

I wish I could do more than commiserate with you here. But at least we have each other on this BB. There are millions of people going through this alone.

I always keep all of you in my prayers. And we can make tomorrow a better day IP. We can! My day wasn't so hot either. But like Rouky said...a beginners mind. That's what we need. Im going to post over at mine in a bit. Maybe I'll even post some of my 180s.

How about your 180s?

We can't convince ourselves we've lost and done everything if we don't actually implement DB and DR. What we are doing just isnt working and we end up miserable. I want to be able to look at my life and my kids in 5 years and genuinely be able to know and say that I did EVERYTHING I could to save our family or, if it works, look at him and our kids and smile knowing that it took one to tango and I held our family together and look at what a wonderful place we are now.

So, 180s IP?

(((((Inpain))))))

Oh sweetie, it is okay. Just chalk it up to a bad day. Cry it out tonight so you can be stronger tomorrow! Maybe try acting like a cashier-sales associate when he frustrates you or makes you angry. I have to do it sometimes. Fake smile, polite, hold back angry or mean thoughts so you dont get fired( divorced ). I probably sound crazy but sometimes it helps.

Inpain? Are you okay? I know it's hard and I'm sorry you're so sad. I used to fall away from the boards when I was feeling down too. But it really is so much better to come here. Even if you just need to vent and scream. At least it helps me.

Thinking of you

Inpain,

I hope you're okay.

Hi Inpain

How are things? I know that's a double edge sword question but I am hoping you are doing better.

Irish

Hey, IP! Thinking of you. I know this whole journey is overwhelming, but it is a journey, nonetheless. We will end up somewhere different in the end. Hope to hear from you soon.

Checking how you are. Looking back at your situation it feels like H knows that you want R and I think he is playing on it. Don't let him do that to you. You are so much worth than that. I know you are scared, do believe that God is doing some work on you and that your oath will get better.

Praying for you :-) xx

Hi Rouky, Thornton, Rain, Rednail, Irish and Ciluzen. Thank you all so much for checking in on me, it has meant so much to me to come on here today and see that there are people who care.

I have been reeling the last few days and just don't really know what to do next or where to turn.

I ended up texting H that night after the row to apologise. Didn't hear back from him of course. Then the next day he text saying he hadn't intentionally ignored my texts and would I like him to bring us all a takeaway for tea when he brings D home from the party!?!?! What!?!??! I had a late meeting which was why I couldn't take D to the party so I agreed to the takeaway.

When he came in he appeared most concerned about convincing me that he really hadn't ignored my texts last night. I just said OK.

D hurt her arm at the party and couldn't move it so I ended up taking her to A&E while H stayed home with S. It was very late when we got home and thankfully it isn't broken although she's still struggling to move it properly.

Friday he didn't come round as promised to the kids and just text me at 7:30pm to say he wasn't coming round as he felt *%*%.

Today he knew I would be at a club I go to and five minutes after he knows it finishes he text asking me to let him know when we were home so that he could come round. My Dad drove and we had to pick the kids back up from my parent's house so in the end we weren't home until two hours after H's text. We got home to find all the lights on and H had let himself in. Not sure how I feel about that really. I know he has every right as it's still his house too but it just seems wrong to do that when you've decided to leave and live somewhere else. I didn't mention it though and he seemed annoyed that we weren't in when he'd shown up. He said he'd been ringing and texting as he was going in to work earlier than usual. So he only saw the kids for half hour tonight. All he did was tell S off for one thing or another in that half hour then left.

I am not doing well at all. I am back to waking up after nightmares about H. I am crying myself to sleep and cry when I wake up and realise this is all real.

Originally Posted By: Rouky

Looking back at your situation it feels like H knows that you want R and I think he is playing on it. Don't let him do that to you.

Rouky, I see what you're saying, how do I not let him do it to me? I'm not sure how?

Thornton, I think you are probably right that my pain is causing me to be snappy. I need to try harder to keep a check on it when he's here.

Rain - I have no idea what my 180s are or should be. I really do feel so lost about it all. I could do with some help on goal setting and 180s. I can't seem to think straight about anything anymore.

I can think of a 180 for you - don't be grumpy when you see your husband. Do a 180. Be as light as a butterfly and "act as if" you are happy and relaxed.

When he leaves, then you can cry your eyes out. Your goal is make it easier for H to stop by and not feel pressured to get the hell out of there as quickly as possible because he can't handle seeing you angry or miserable.

Oh and I almost forgot! I've also discovered tonight that H has bought ANOTHER motorbike! (Again, he doesn't know I know and has done this behind my back!)

IP to do that I went to extreme measure. After I had that physical fight and we discuss our M for the first time in IDK how many months, and told him I loved him and wanted to R, I didn't get anything from STBXH, so I went dark. I didn't see him physically for a month. Only today was the first time I saw him, and you know what I still love him, so I'm not fully detached. I knew I felt better not seeing him, so now I'm stuck as I don't know what to do. Maybe do what I did drop the kids to his place and luck them up later.

Sorry for not being anymore helpful. It'd nice to meet up one day :-).
Take care xx

Thank you for replying Thornton, I really appreciate it. I have already been doing that as a 180 since H left in November, just the last couple of weeks I have backslid and struggled! Didn't seem to have any effect so maybe it was a cheese less tunnel or maybe I just hadn't done it for long enough. I don't know.

Hi inpain. I know, it's so difficult some days. What else can you do that's different and super attractive? Or be mysterious and tell H you need him to spend time with kids because you are going out?

I'm not really in touch with W so I'm just trying to stay positive (with not always good results) and work on self improvement. And sometimes all I can do is sob. But we just keep going I guess. Everyone says it will get better, but sometimes I wonder. So then I just keep breathing. That's all we can do sometimes.

Please don't think you're not being helpful Rouky, I really do appreciate everything that people suggest - even if I'm not that great at implementing it!

It is very awkward isn't it. I'm sorry that seeing your H today has stirred things back up for you and left you unsure what to do. It is so incredibly hard. I wonder if they find it as hard as we do?

My H will not let me drop the kids off at his Dad's where he's staying. I didn't understand why but now I think it must be because he doesn't want me to see the motorbike/s he's bought!

It would be nice to meet one day

Thanks NYGal, yes, all we can do is keep breathing and plodding. I feel like I am plodding through each and every waking minute. It is so exhausting!

I am making sure my hair is always done when H comes round instead of just sticking it up in a 'that will do' messy bun every day and making sure I'm nicely dressed and wearing make up. (Although the nicely dressed and make up isn't a 180 really, but the hair is!). H meanwhile turns up looking awful all of the time - jogging bottoms and a baggy fleece and stubble. Clearly he's not trying to 180 me!

I do the same. I'm going to meet some friends from my divorce group but I'm doing my hair on the outside chance W is in the same restaurant! Sick.

Hi Inpain

I only have one bit of advise. Your H access to the house. Please make sure you don't leave you computer or tablet open with this site in the browsing history. Lock it down.
Also hide any notes you might take or books you are reading on MLC, DB.

It won't help much if he knows you are here.

It's still all new and you are still hurting.
Hope you see that you are a lot better than the day 1 when you started writing here.

Nothing wrong with crying . I had my own nights this week when I was full of emotions.
Let it out when you are alone.

Glad you updated us. I know many are thinkng of you

Irish

I'm sorry it's been so rough inpain, but I'm glad you're back on with everyone.

Before the last couple of weeks..when you were acting "as if", did H come around more often? Or stay longer when he was there?

Hi Rain. No, it didn't seem to make any difference. In fact, if anything, he is coming round more now. Over the Christmas period there were days in a row where he wouldn't come round and I was being all happy then. Maybe he had to many Christmas parties to attend to, I don't know.

Had a bad night last night after discovering he's bought another motorbike. What does everyone think about this? Should I still handle it with a STFU smoothie? I don't know if he's sold the first one and bought this one or if he has two. We don't have the money which means he's taking out finance. I don't know how he comes round and looks me in the eye when he knows he is doing these things behind my back. He also has smart watches saved in our ebay watch list so no doubt that is the next thing he'll be getting. I don't understand why he's doing this but making no move to go to a L. I think I can safely say he is in MLC now with all these purchases as though he's young, free and single.

I was reading and thought maybe MLC. Especially if he also seems depressed. As for how to handle it, I don't really know. If you say something will it bring you further or closer to your goal? <<<from the book.

And will it change anything? Honestly, you know him, will he return them if he knows that his secret is out? If not then it may cause a bigger problem.

I just don't want you to feel worse than you already do. I said something about the cam girls to mine because the money being spent was leaving the kids and I without. He blew up at me. Said nasty things. Even told me it was "his" money since he is the one that works. It was awful. Granted it didn't last too long (the meanness as the cam girls are still an issue) but it really didn't help me.

Im sure much wiser people can answer your question better. And give you a more concrete path to take.

Not that we can mindread and know what's going on in their heads, but the depression and sudden interest in "toys" (pricey ones) does sound like...well, an attempt to feel excited and happy about something. An "easy" lift in emotions...like how you feel as a child on Christmas Day. And like that child, they probably have convinced themselves that they deserve it because they deserve to be happy...about something. Finances then just don't seem so important.

Is this an MLC? Could be. As our Hs show signs of depression and voice concerns about aging, that seems to be the obvious reason. But is MLC just depression mixed with aging or is it depression brought on by fear of aging mixed with stresses outside their control?

This MLC thing, while convenient to explain what we view as irrational behavior, to me it has to have a cause...a reason... for it to be a real thing. Something, some thought process is going on in that person's head that is causing the behavior we view as irrational and out of character. To them it is the course of action that makes sense at the time. It may be out of desperation to alter a course they fear they are on, to get out of pain, or to fight some fear we don't know they have. The problem is, we don't know what is in their heads. We can't help. We can just watch and be confused and hurt. Oh, also supportive when those opportunities arise.

Once again, their journey. That's why we have to repeatedly try to focus on us...no matter how many times their behavior intrudes on our lives. Smile, validate, set some boundaries for your sanity, and give them space to be themselves. No pursuing. And don't listen to those who tell you to just dump him and give up...that is your choice as to when to call your M dead and yours alone. Ugh...it is hard.

Quote:

OK, so here goes, a breakdown of our M.

We'd already been together 4 years when we married, and lived together for 3 of those 4 years. We bought our first home together the same month we married (he moved in with me originally). Our S was born 4 years later after some troubles - (2 operations and a failed IVF cycle). During the pregnancy I became ill with OCD and then had PND too. H was supportive at first, then when S was 4 months old he said he wasn't sure he wanted to be with me anymore. I just carried on looking after S and a few weeks later he said he was sorry and had just been struggling with my illness. I thought things ticked along fine after this. Then, 2 days after S's 2nd birthday H came home from work late and told me he'd stayed at work to think and he was leaving me. He left the very next morning. I cried, begged, all the usual for 2 weeks, then discovered there was OW, a W he worked with. Bought DR and immediately went dark. 2 weeks later H asked me and S out for the day. He continued to do this every week or couple of weeks. Four months later he asked me out on a date. The next day he said he wanted to come home. The whole time he had insisted the OW was just someone to talk to. I believed him and after 3 months piecing things really started to look up. We were happier than ever. 8 months later I'm pregnant with D. 2 weeks after finding out I was pregnant I found a letter in H's wallet from the OW. The wording made it clear it had been PA. H denied it all and said she was crazy and had made it up to split us up. The letter was dated 2 months after he'd come back home. I was devastated but, as I say, pregnant. I struggled throughout the pregnancy with whether or not to believe what H was saying to me. I was so confused and almost ended the M myself at 8 months pregnant but H begged me not to make a decision whilst hormonal. I agreed and when D was born I was so blissfully happy that it all seemed unimportant. Things were pretty good except every time H was on his phone I felt uneasy. Most of the time I hid it but sometimes I'd ask if he was talking to her. He always said no.

When D was 3 I discovered a birthday card and Christmas card from OW when I was tidying our wardrobes out. They were with some envelopes that some of my Christmas gifts had been delivered in, stashed at the back of the wardrobe, so I knew they were from the Christmas just gone. I asked H if he had something he wanted to tell me. He blagged his way out of it saying he'd meant to put them in the bin and had didn't know when they were from. I pointed out the post marks and he changed it to he'd just forgotten they were there and they meant nothing. Two weeks later while H was at work I found several emails to OW - H sending pictures to her of love messages or photos of our S dressed in a dressing up outfit! This led me to hunt a little further and I found the most sickening thing of my whole life. A letter on the laptop written by H to OW, 3 pages long. It implied they'd been having a PA for years. When H got home he asked why I was crying. I handed him the laptop and told him I was spending the night at my parents' house. He looked like he would collapse as I walked out the door. I returned the next day to say I wasn't sure what I wanted to do but that I wanted us to still go on the holiday we had booked for 2 weeks later. We did and he spent the whole holiday trying to make me 'come round', sending cards, telling me the letter was made up when he was drunk one night. He bought me jewellery too to try to make it up to me, which I gave him back. I insisted we see a MC. We went twice together and then she wanted to see H alone. From that point on it was just me going on my own for weeks on end, talking about my childhood. I eventually asked when we were going to get to the actual reason I was here - ie H's letter and insisted she read it. She told me if her H had written it she would have filed for D on the spot. I didn't go again and just after that D was diagnosed with an incurable condition so once again my mind was taken up with something else.

H changed his phone no at my request when it first happened but didn't like me looking at his phone. We argued a lot about this at first because I felt he should be transparent given what had gone on. He felt it was an invasion of his privacy. The first year was bad. I cried and was angry a lot. Lots of little comments about H being a liar. H's idea of working on things seemed to be to just be as nice as possible to me and wait on my hand and foot. I told him that wasn't what I needed. Told him I needed some kind of proof that he hadn't had PA because his letter and her letter made it obvious they had. At the very least I wanted him to be tested for STDs but he refused, saying he didn't need to because he hadn't had a PA. After about a year of this he began to get angry with it all and if I was ever upset he would just yell at me to make my mind up, either to stay or go. I had felt things were getting slowly better as I was going longer and longer between the times I needed to bring it up for reassurance. Wasn't good enough for H though, he wanted it never mentioning again. When he tried to hug me I would just stand there motionless. In the beginning it was because it made me want to actually be sick when he so much as put a hand on my shoulder. All I could think of was him with her and the words in their letters. I felt H didn't really do anything to make me feel better except being nice, and that wasn't what I needed. I read books about forgiveness and getting over affairs, looked at sites. Tried to get H involved in that but he wasn't interested, said it was a load of rubbish and we just needed to be nice to each other.

All the while, as well as this OW issue there has been the issue of how H is with S. It is not just me who thinks he isn't nice to him, my whole family do and friends that see how he is. I have bought books on this under the guise that "we" needed help parenting. He only read the first chapters. He would visibly try to be different on several occasions over the years but it would last a day or two then he'd be back to himself. He is over bearing and unrealistic with S. He doesn't treat him with respect - doesn't think children should be treat with respect. He just seems to have no clue whatsoever on how to be a dad. It has broken my heart to watch how he is with S. We went through so much to have him and I feel so betrayed, like H hid his true self. I have thought many times that if I'd known what sort of father H was going to be I wouldn't have had children with him. So, I have, in my H's words, gone on and on at him about this. I tried all manner of ways to get him to be softer and more involved, to no avail.

The last couple of years as S's hormones have started to kick in things have become increasingly strained. It has become more and more obvious to everyone (including S) that H treats S and D differently. She can do no wrong and S does everything wrong. This has been the main thing we have argued about. H's shifts are dreadful and he has become increasingly snappy and moody and almost impossible to live with when on night shifts. Everyone treads on eggshells.

I hadn't worked since having the children but got a job 2 years ago. I feel this sent our M spiralling too. Prior to me working we would go out for lunch or into town shopping when H had a day off in the week, while the children were at school. It was the only time we spent alone together. No-one will have children over night due to D's condition so we hardly ever went out. H now says that this is because he hasn't wanted to go out with me, because he doesn't like me and hasn't wanted to be with me for a long time. Me working has made me very stressed out. I am working full time, having the children on my own evenings and weekends a lot of the time due to H's shifts and trying to run the house too. I became snappy and irritable.

H did help with housework at first when I started working but then the help waned. His Mum died this time last year and from then on I think he has been depressed. He doesn't believe in depression though, thinks it's a load of rubbish and people should just pull themselves together. He hasn't slept properly since she died, stopped doing anything to help round the house and has pretty much worked, slept or sat in his chair looking at things on the internet. Several times I voiced that I was concerned and worried about him and that he seemed depressed. He said I was talking rubbish. Things seemed to improve in August when we went on holiday. We had a fabulous time and became much closer physically than we had been in a very long time. I was elated - I finally thought things were getting back on track. As soon as we got home, however and he started back on shift he became snappy again and so did I. About a month after the holiday he told me ILYBNILWY. In view of the holiday I was shocked rigid and very confused. He said he wanted to see if we could get on so he could decide whether to leave or not. A week later he had to go on a course for 4 weeks. I have never seen anyone so tired and drained at the end of each day as my H was on this course. I did all the wrong things in this time. I was like a rabbit in the headlights, panicking and asking for reassurances that H was going to stay. He said he couldn't promise anything and just wanted to see how we got on. We had a couple of lovely weekends during this time where we went out as a family and had a great time. H was hugging and kissing like nothing was wrong right up to the weekend before he left.

We had a huge row the weekend he left. I had wanted reassurance and when he refused I told him if he didn't love me I wanted him to leave. So he did. The next day he came back to tell the children he was leaving. He told me that I thought I was so clever telling him to leave and I'd got what I deserved. A couple of weeks after he left I came back on here so the rest is on here.

So, I've struggled to forgive H's EA/PA and have punished H for the hurt he caused. I've criticized him because of his parenting. This is a tough one though because everyone who really knows us agrees that there is no way I could just let his parenting style go unchecked. I'm not sure what I could have done differently there. I've tried to model a better parenting style. I've tried books, and then when they haven't worked I've just said it. I've tried heartfelt letters telling him how upset it makes me to see him parent the way he does. I haven't been pleasant to live with, I can see that. I needed something, some reassurance. I don't even know. It has all just been such a mess for so long.

Took me a while to get back to this but I didn't want to treat it lightly.

I recently encouraged Ciluzen to read my last few posts on JulieH's threads. Very important, please check them out.

Before I say more let me be clear- affairs are not ok, they are incredibly destructive, hurtful, and are one of the only reasons I believe it's acceptable to walk away from a marriage. If WAH isn't willing to terminate the affairs and do everything in his power to reinvest in himself and the marriage to prevent this from EVER happening again, then I agree you should not subject yourself to this.

That all said, in reviewing your marital history it seemed clear that you cannot see past the affair. I reread it and highlighted things with this code: Green was comments you made owning your contributions to the breakdown of the marriage, Red were the comments you made criticizing H for the affair (and later for his parenting).

I get why you wouldn't be able to see past an affair when he is continuing in it. But it's no surprise that he felt he couldn't win with you. Obviously you have to stop the affair to win and he has to go first on that one...but it was a pretty bad cycle.

Right now you have some work to do to accepting that you can't change H. I posted on my new thread how hard this was for me, so I get it isn't easy. But if you knew that no matter what you did H wouldn't change, would you take him back? Knowing that he'd continue to cheat? This is an important question. If the answer is no (and I hope that it is) then your primary mission should be to work on yourself and move forward. Don't burn bridges...but don't think the solution to YOUR problems is H's behavior.

So...what is the solution? How do you work on you? And how do you stand for a marriage if it isn't about controlling WAH? Well, it all comes back to 180s from where you went wrong in the marriage. This is your roadmap to personal growth, and also, while you can't control WAH, it wouldn't hurt to give him a little incentive, a spouse that only a fool to leave so that when he compares it to his flings you look better and better. You can't make the horse drink, but you can lead it to water, and you do that by DBing hard.

The problem is according to this marital history you didn't contribute to the breakdown of the marriage. It sounds like you had a few cranky months due to pregnancy but other than that you were a wonderful wife, and the problems all started because H cheated, and then the only things you did wrong were in defense for his destructive choices in his affair and horrible parenting. If this is the case great news, you're perfect, dump this guy and look for a perfect man that equals you.

But if you're so perfect...why did H cheat in the first place? Of course it's his own decision, you're not responsible for his choices. Some guys do cheat in perfectly good marriages. But is that what he told you when you confronted him on his first affair? If I asked him about why he cheated and how you were as a wife, would his marital history look any different than yours?

I feel like I keep trying to put the focus back on you and it doesn't seem to work. Maybe you need a year of anger. Maybe you need to hit rock bottom and realize that walking around with this pain and anger in your heart isn't making you feel good. To be fair, it's hard to start healing when you're still being beaten, so please, do GAL and set firm boundaries so you are able to start detaching from this man. I want you to save your marriage, but not unconditionally. You don't deserve to be betrayed. And you don't deserve to live in pain of unmet needs so great you are willing to accept it in the hopes of having them met. But at some point you are going to work on your own garden if you want to feel better.

Originally Posted By: Zues126

Took me a while to get back to this but I didn't want to treat it lightly.

Hi Zues, thank you for your reply, I really appreciate you taking the time to read through all that and leave such a thougtful response. I have read your posts on JulieH's threads and have them earmarked to read again as I'm not in a good place right now to take so much in. I feel like I'm spiralling out of control here.

Originally Posted By: Zues126

I get why you wouldn't be able to see past an affair when he is continuing in it. But it's no surprise that he felt he couldn't win with you. Obviously you have to stop the affair to win and he has to go first on that one...but it was a pretty bad cycle.

This part stumped me Zues. How so? (ie how is it no surprise he felt he couldn't win. In what way couldn't he win? I don't understand.)

Originally Posted By: Zues126

Right now you have some work to do to accepting that you can't change H. I posted on my new thread how hard this was for me, so I get it isn't easy. But if you knew that no matter what you did H wouldn't change, would you take him back? Knowing that he'd continue to cheat? This is an important question. If the answer is no (and I hope that it is) then your primary mission should be to work on yourself and move forward. Don't burn bridges...but don't think the solution to YOUR problems is H's behavior.

This is the million dollar question isn't it!? The trouble with all of this, and this has been the trouble the whole way through this whole mess from the minute H walked out 9 years ago, is that H still denies to this day that he has had a PA with this OW. He swears it was always just EA and he only uses that term because of MC we had - he doesn't even think there is such a thing as an EA. "She was just someone to talk to about us." is his go to line. The fact that there were gifts and cards and letters by both of them implying there had been PA is irrelevant according to H. This is and was my struggle. If he is telling the truth then I have destroyed our M for nothing. It is a bitter pill to swallow. But I just don't see why anyone would write a letter about having had a PA if they hadn't. So you see, I am very torn. If he has had a PA with this OW on and off (or maybe even continually on) for years on end then as you say, why would I put myself through this for someone who has no respect for me and treats me badly. If, however, he is telling the truth and there has been no PA then it is worth fighting for.

Originally Posted By: Zues126

So...what is the solution? How do you work on you? And how do you stand for a marriage if it isn't about controlling WAH? Well, it all comes back to 180s from where you went wrong in the marriage. This is your roadmap to personal growth, and also, while you can't control WAH, it wouldn't hurt to give him a little incentive, a spouse that only a fool to leave so that when he compares it to his flings you look better and better. You can't make the horse drink, but you can lead it to water, and you do that by DBing hard.

The problem is according to this marital history you didn't contribute to the breakdown of the marriage. It sounds like you had a few cranky months due to pregnancy but other than that you were a wonderful wife, and the problems all started because H cheated, and then the only things you did wrong were in defense for his destructive choices in his affair and horrible parenting. If this is the case great news, you're perfect, dump this guy and look for a perfect man that equals you.

Hmmmm...OK...not really sure what to say here! I thought I had put the things I had contributed to the breakdown of the marriage. I do not feel that having a few cranky months due to pregnancy can be classed as a contribution to it though, that was just me explaining what led up to H leaving the first time round. I was ill and if it had been an illness other than that of the mental variety it would not be being blamed for contributing to the breakdown of the M at all. The things I did to contribute, as I see it, are: snappy and irritable, unable to trust again after EA/PA, couldn't let the EA/PA thing go. One thing I didn't mention actually is that I was never particularly good at houswork either. Not cooking, I'm a great cook and provide well in that area. I'm a bit lax with other stuff though because a) I don't have the energy due to problems with my neck that leave me feeling drained and b) I live by the motto that the children are only young once and the dust will still be there when they're all grown and left home, so I tend to get out and do things with the kids rather than doing housework. Obviously the essential duties are done - I'm not a slob or anything! I don't think these contributing factors mean I'm perfect at all, although I had to laugh when I read that you'd put it as it is something H says all the time. Clearly I am giving off some sort of message that I am unaware of that both you and H spot.

Originally Posted By: Zues126

But if you're so perfect...why did H cheat in the first place? Of course it's his own decision, you're not responsible for his choices. Some guys do cheat in perfectly good marriages. But is that what he told you when you confronted him on his first affair? If I asked him about why he cheated and how you were as a wife, would his marital history look any different than yours?

All I can tell you in answer to this is what H said when we had MC after the 2nd discovery of OW (it was the same OW by the way). As I already said, he denies emphatically having had PA with this W. His reason for leaving 9 years ago was that he just couldn't take how I was any more (ie: the OCD and depression). As for why he continued to have EA with her, his answer is always that he didn't see why he shouldn't have a female friend just because he's married and they only ever talked about us.

Originally Posted By: Zues126

I feel like I keep trying to put the focus back on you and it doesn't seem to work. Maybe you need a year of anger. Maybe you need to hit rock bottom and realize that walking around with this pain and anger in your heart isn't making you feel good. To be fair, it's hard to start healing when you're still being beaten, so please, do GAL and set firm boundaries so you are able to start detaching from this man. I want you to save your marriage, but not unconditionally. You don't deserve to be betrayed. And you don't deserve to live in pain of unmet needs so great you are willing to accept it in the hopes of having them met. But at some point you are going to work on your own garden if you want to feel better.

It's not that I don't want to work on myself, I just don't know how, don't know what to do, don't know where to start. I think I'm doing OK with GAL although I might not go on about it much on here. I do so much with my children but it is not really anything new - I always have done a lot with them.

Firm boundaries - I am definitely struggling here. Don't know where to start, how to implement, any of it, I'd love help with this!

Detaching - I know some will just answer that detaching doesn't mean physically but mentally but I still don't see how I can detach from someone who is 'in my face' so much almost every day. Take today for example: I get out of bed at 7:10, 7:15 H has let himself in and sits in our family room nit picking at S while he eats his breakfast and gets ready for school, nit picks at things I'm doing because I should be doing this that or the other instead, then I leave for work at 8:15, feeling exasperated by his constant intrusion to our morning routine. He left! It has nothing to do with him! 5:30pm I finish work, get home and he is there again because he picked D up from school and the first thing he does when I walk in is shout at me for not answering his text message that I haven't even seen (I don't check my phone any more because he was the only person who ever text me on it and now I may as well be dead to him as he doesn't text). He stays until the children go to bed. He just sits on his phone not interacting with any of us unless it is to do a bit more nit picking at S. I am struggling to detach and I'm struggling to stay calm.

We had another mini argument tonight. I am exhausted from the constant lack of sleep due to the stress of this situation, this is making me snappy and irritable and he is pushing all the wrong buttons with his constant nit picking. Even my children are wishing he wouldn't come round because all he does is nit pick, sit on his phone and then leave. The last few days I have found myself questioning why I even want to R with this man. All he does is nit pick and suit himself - that is all he's done for at least the last year. Then I feel terrible for even thinking such a thing because he is the father of my beautiful children and we made a vow and it was supposed to be forever. I was supposed to go on cruises in my old age with this man. He wasn't supposed to break my heart.

Don't feel too hard on yourself. You are putting up with a lot more than I did. Can I give you few suggestions, I'm not saying that I'm right, maybe it can help.

Does H need to be in house in the morning so early, couldn't he come when you are about to leave? Since my STBXH has gone I'm no longer stress in the morning and kids are happier.

For the evening, could you pick up kids from where he is staying or agree with him to not stay too long?

I know it's hard, I have been there. Since I drop kids to their dad, I'm starting to feel better and don't resent him anymore when I have to see him!

Hi Inpain
It's frustrating I know. Everyone suggesting you to GAL, Go dim, go dark, set up boundaries. Do 180's, DB'ing, move on, disconnect.. etc etc etc.

how can you do this while you are still grieving and confused. Not everyone can just put on a straight face and move on. We are all different.

What helped me is understanding my W's illness. I read everything I could on MLC and she still makes me bang my head on the wall trying to make sense of it all. What you need to read up is what you the LBS is going through.

Until you get through the stages of the left behind spouse, GAL is hard and setting boundaries are even harder to put in place because of the fear of upsetting H.

I read a link here on the stages of the LBS , I believe that Cadet started this discussion and its many LBS'rs talking about the stages they went through. Shock, begging, anger, withdrawal, anger again, acceptance and even forgiveness.

Here it is
I suggest you read it.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1965396&page=1

Some of the links in here don't work but you'll get that idea of what you are going through. Page 2 has a pretty good break down.

I'm sure there are other links maybe a bit more complete. Hopefully one of the vets can share them with you.

continue to educate yourself. I'm not saying you will feel sorry for your H because he is suffering inside and hes a broken version of himself. Its a constant battle for him. Nothing you can do to snap him out of it. Accept your own stages as they come.. the rest will follow as you get stronger to be able to deal with your MLC'r.

hugs

Irish

Originally Posted By: Rouky

Don't feel too hard on yourself. You are putting up with a lot more than I did. Can I give you few suggestions, I'm not saying that I'm right, maybe it can help.

Does H need to be in house in the morning so early, couldn't he come when you are about to leave? Since my STBXH has gone I'm no longer stress in the morning and kids are happier.

For the evening, could you pick up kids from where he is staying or agree with him to not stay too long?

I know it's hard, I have been there. Since I drop kids to their dad, I'm starting to feel better and don't resent him anymore when I have to see him!

Hi Rouky, thank you for your help. I honestly am not really sure why H comes round so early on the days he is taking D to school. I haven't asked as I felt it was pursuing and I try to only communicate when he initiates. At first I thought it was so he saw S too on days that he wouldn't see them in the evening - but he even does it on days when he will see them in the evening and it is still a full 45 minutes before S has to leave for school!

I like both of your suggestions about before and after school. If he has brought D home from school he tends to just sit around like he is waiting for me to make the tea as he knows that S will always ask him if he's staying for tea and then he just kind of expects a plate of food! I've just been serving him a plate up to try to be the 'lighthouse' but I don't see it is having any effect. I am scared of doing these things in case it pushes him further away, but at the same time I think about doing them a lot and wonder if making our home less available to him would make him miss us/me and do some good. So tired of not knowing which way to turn.

Originally Posted By: Irish M

Hi Inpain
It's frustrating I know. Everyone suggesting you to GAL, Go dim, go dark, set up boundaries. Do 180's, DB'ing, move on, disconnect.. etc etc etc.

how can you do this while you are still grieving and confused. Not everyone can just put on a straight face and move on. We are all different.

Thank you so much for this Irish! Reading all that long list of confusion is exactly right - it makes my head spin!

Originally Posted By: IrishM

Until you get through the stages of the left behind spouse, GAL is hard and setting boundaries are even harder to put in place because of the fear of upsetting H.

This is exactly how I'm feeling right now! I really feel like I need to enforce some boundaries for my own sanity but, as you say, I'm terrified to do so for fear it will push him further away, make him angry and think, "Fine, I'll go to a solicitor then!"

Thank you for the link, I will make it my next 'homework' task!

Hi IP, I honestly think that your H hasn't felt the loss of his family as he still comes as it pleases him and he has food on the table. I know it's very hard, on the other hand what have you got to lose to put in place boundaries that will protect you emotionally. He has sacked you as his wife!

I'm sorry if I sound so harsh, it's only because I care for you and I have been in your situation. The best thing that happened to me was to limit my contact with him ( not his kids as you don't want him to use it against you). Honestly it is doing a world of good to me, even though if it isn't helping my M.

I'm feeling stronger and better by the day. Like you I was scared of him filing for D, unfortunately if he wants to do it I can't stop him. YOU are your priority, YOU need to look after yourself, rebuil yourself emotionally so you become a stronger woman when and if your H comes round and you'll be a me to support him as you'd have dealt with your issues.

You'll become a woman only a fool would leave :-).

I'll all the way be there with you as I'm few steps ahead of you :-)

Hi Rouky, I do think you're right. H is definitely cake eating right now, coming and going when he pleases. Enjoying meals here when he likes, easing his conscience by sitting with the kids for hours (but not interacting) and then leaving when he's had enough. I am afraid to put some boundaries in place in case it is the wrong DBing thing to do and he takes it badly. I do think he needs to feel the loss though, as you say. How did you set your boundaries with your H? How did you approach him with them? Thanks for walking this awful walk with me!

I didn't tell him anything I put them in place. I started by putting his shoes outside in the porch, then looked the door so he couldn't go as it pleased him (in case he'd want to challenge I'd have said to him that he has his own house keys, but never got to that), then after my horrible fight I needed to protect myself emotionally so I texted him saying that I'd drop the kids to him. When I did that I didn't think if it was bringing me closer to my goal as I felt an urge to really look after myself as I was constantly depressed.

I'm not saying I'm doing it right because no sign from STBXH, on the other hand I'm feeling so much better than I should have done that a long time ago.

Press submit too early :-(. At the time my focuse wasn't my M, it was me and my sanity as I owed it to my kids to be strong for them.

Hi IP, how are you?

Hi Rouky! Thanks for checking on me, I've only just this second logged on as I actually had a GAL activity tonight! Been out for tea with two friends I used to work with. We go every few months but it's the first time we've got together since H left. Coming down with a cold though so feel absolutely rotten.

I don't know what is wrong with me the last few days but I can't stop having little spats with H when he's here. I think I'm losing the will as nothing I've done so far seems to be changing anything. I know 3 months is a relatively short amount of time for him to be gone but I just wish there was some slight change in one way or another - this limbo is so draining! Tonight's spat was because he'd emptied the letter box before I got home. It really gets to me that he does this when he clearly wants all his mail a secret because he has paid to have his redirected to his Dad's house! So I said I thought it wasn't right that he empties the mail yet has redirected his. He got angry and said he only did it to help and that he only redirected his mail so that I wouldn't get angry about it. I don't believe him for a minute! Obviously he doesn't know that I know he has bought two motorbikes since December - I would put money on it that he redirected his mail as he has taken out some sort of finance or something for the bikes! He is living just a few doors down the street and I never opened his mail so he had no reason to pay �30 to redirect it.

Before he left he acted all concerned about me coming down with a cold and told me to get in bed as I look dreadful (thanks).

Thanks for the info on how you put your boundaries in place with H. I definitely need to do this, especially for the mornings he comes round at 7am. It is just too much for me to cope with and makes me upset just as I'm going to work.

H text last night to say he wasn't coming round as he was exhausted and already in bed at 7pm. Not sure I believe him. Friday night, no work in the morning and he's in bed by 7pm? Our children were still up!

He came round this morning bright and early, the kettle hadn't even finished boiling to make our morning cup of tea and there he was knocking on the window to be let in. He proceeded to just lounge on the settee and tell S all the things he was doing wrong with 'his' PS4 controller. Every time he comes round now he threatens to take the PS4 away with him as it is his. D and I were out of the house not long after he turned up, thank goodness. I am just finding it so annoying him being around at the moment and it worries me. I'm worried that if this goes on much longer I won't want him to come back, because what I'm seeing of him is not nice. Every time he is here you can feel the whole household sag their shoulders as presence is depressing. All three of us seem so much happier when he isn't here. It makes me worry about how my children feel about their Dad too. He is destroying everything that the people who love him think about him. I say nothing derogatory to the children about their Dad but they come out with things themselves. They seem to be just as fed up of this limbo land he is holding us all in as I am.

Really not sure what my next steps should be. I have been dark since the beginning of December in that I don't ever initiate contact, wait a while to answer texts and keep my replies brief. H makes it difficult for me to go out when he comes round to be dark in that way because he comes when I'm having breakfast, tea or doing something nice with the children.

180s

Don't interfere when H reprimands children
Don't criticize H
Thank H for any tiny little things he does around the house
Make sure house is always neat and tidy
Make sure hair and make up always done
Always be cheerful in H's company

We are now on school holiday for a week and have lots of GAL activities planned with the children. We are going to go to the cinema, ten pin bowling, a day out with my SIL and nephew. I also plan to have my hair done at a hairdressers (haven't done so for over 2 years, it is long and I've just been trimming the ends myself), give myself a manicure and pedicure, sand and re oil my kitchen worktops, re organize my craft room and bedroom (I'm going to move all H's left behind things into a large bag and put them in the loft) and I have a new piece of music I want to practise (I play the piano).

Inpain..i just caught up on your stitch. YourH is like my H. Sometimes I come home and he is here,eating cereal in his boxers, watchin tv. He never calls, he always just shows up. Always. Once in a blue moon that I'm not home he will call and wonder where I am since he drove across town to be here.

He tends to come at random times like 7am..1:30 pm ..4:45 times he knows I'm getting the kids ready for school, nap times, getting dinner ready..sometimes he says he isnt visiting then shows up 10 mins later.

I havent figured out how to put a boundary on it because on his days off he keeps the kids overnight HERE and I leave for the night. He thinks it is more stable that way for the kids to always be home and one of us leaves.

Same with no interacting. He will come lay in our room and watch tv and count it as visiting the kids! Then I'm like do I leave? Will he watch them? I dont know. He is..something. I mostly try to keep my distance, do laundry, organize, stay away

Hi Inpain, love your 180's and GAL's.

At about the 3 month mark, I too started working on the house and I even made a coffee table out of an old tree. All hand finished and sealed with oils.

It felt so good to get back to doing things for me.

I see that you too are thinking for you. I'm so so happy for you.

Originally Posted By: inpain

. All three of us seem so much happier when he isn't here. It makes me worry about how my children feel about their Dad too. He is destroying everything that the people who love him think about him.

Me and the D's feel the same. Our life is continuing as it did but without STBXW. With love and support to each other. We were unbelievably close as a family of 4, now were are even closer as a family of 3. I suggest you talk openly about your H with your kids. I know you don't say bad things about him and that's good. You will be surprised how much children understand that our MLCr's are not themselves and not well. Understanding is acceptance that leads to forgiveness. Then comes our choice of if we want them in our lives or not. The kids will make their own choice.

keep up the good work on yourself. I see you are breaking through your own fog.

hugs

Irish

Our Hs do sound very similar Rednail. When he first moved out I left the house or at least the room whenever he came round but it got to the point where he was staying longer and longer and I would just never see the kids myself! I'm not sure what the answer is. Now I either make myself busy or sit in the room with them but H may as well not be there. He doesn't interact with the kids at all, doesn't even say hello when he walks in. It feels like he only comes round to stop himself feeling guilty, he certainly doesn't seem bothered about actually spending some quality time with the kids doing something.

Irish, I thought a lot about this comment:

Originally Posted By: IrishM

Our life is continuing as it did but without STBXW. With love and support to each other. We were unbelievably close as a family of 4, now were are even closer as a family of 3.

It is sad, but when I look back, the kids and I have always been an unbelievably close family of 3 with H just tagging along when he wasn't working. I seem to be doing a lot of reflecting about the past, and when I look back, H has never really done anything with the kids of his own initiative and never wanted to organise anything that was child friendly. He would suggest things like going to a large shopping centre for the day and then wonder why the kids were bored rigid and complaining after an hour. It makes me feel sad that really, nothing has changed except that we don't look for H coming through the door when he's finished work.

Valentine's Day we thought H would come round in the morning before he went to work - he text at lunch saying he'd only just got up so wouldn't be coming before work. I wonder if he just couldn't face me on Valentine's Day.

Yesterday the kids and I were out all day, we had a great time. We left early and at around 10am I got a text from H asking if we were in so he could come round. It feels like we're playing a game and I scored a little point for being out when he wanted to come. It feels so wrong to be making a game out of life.

Not sure what we're going to do today yet, we have a couple of choices up our sleeves. Think H is off work the next couple of days but no word from him about doing anything with the kids while they're off school. I refuse to sit around waiting on the off chance of him coming round though, so have lots of ideas for just me and the kids. Wonder when H will realise how much of his children's lives he is missing. I don't know how he does it, I know I couldn't. Maybe it just proves he is ill right now.

Hi Inpain

Just checking up on you .
Hugs

Quote:

It is sad, but when I look back, the kids and I have always been an unbelievably close family of 3 with H just tagging along when he wasn't working.

This is how I felt in my M. Only from my perspective, I had been excluded and edged out by XW who had become 100% mom and 0% wife, who put the children ahead of me, who used the children to meet her emotional needs, who was a SAHM and acted as if she was the 'real' parent and I was just some big oaf that they should be exposed to in control environments for periods of time because it was 'healthy' for them to know their dad.

That's actually what destroyed intimacy on my side. That and sex starvation.

Funny thing is, now that I have my own place and my own relationship with the kids, I am every bit as close with them if not more so that they are with their mother. I am an amazing dad, and I do great things. It turns out that I never could have had this relationship with XW floating around and controlling everything. Men hate criticism, so for me to be playing with kids and have her giving me 'feedback' on what kind of a dad I was, well, wrong though it was I allowed this to drive me from the family.

At some point a fixed schedule will be set up. And at some point it will involve him having the children somewhere else. So let me ask- have you talked to a DB coach about this?

I didn't want you to rush things, but if this set up isn't working maybe it's time to push things along and get some type of formal schedule, maybe even a legal separation. I might be mixing up sitches but I'm pretty sure WAH has had serial affairs, right? I'm concerned at this point that he is happy with the current sitch as he can have his cake and eat it. I'm not suggesting you file D, and you don't want to come across as controlling/rejecting/punishing, but if this set up isn't working for you or the kids there may be ways to address it. But I wouldn't do ANYTHING without the guidance of a DB coach. They rarely suggest taking action unilaterally, and would probably give you talking points on how to address this with WAH.

Originally Posted By: Zues126

Quote:

It is sad, but when I look back, the kids and I have always been an unbelievably close family of 3 with H just tagging along when he wasn't working.

This is how I felt in my M. Only from my perspective, I had been excluded and edged out by XW who had become 100% mom and 0% wife, who put the children ahead of me, who used the children to meet her emotional needs, who was a SAHM and acted as if she was the 'real' parent and I was just some big oaf that they should be exposed to in control environments for periods of time because it was 'healthy' for them to know their dad.

Hi Zues, thanks for dropping by, I've missed your posts and your thoughts on my situation! I'm sorry your M was like that, it doesn't sound like a nice situation at all. I didn't mean that I had shut H out of our lives when I said the bit you've quoted. I meant that we were a close family of 3 with H just tagging along when he wasn't working because my H worked such awful hours that the kids and I had no choice but to do things on our own and even when he wasn't working he really wasn't that interested.

Originally Posted By: Zues126

Funny thing is, now that I have my own place and my own relationship with the kids, I am every bit as close with them if not more so that they are with their mother. I am an amazing dad, and I do great things. It turns out that I never could have had this relationship with XW floating around and controlling everything. Men hate criticism, so for me to be playing with kids and have her giving me 'feedback' on what kind of a dad I was, well, wrong though it was I allowed this to drive me from the family.l

It's great that you're a great Dad and close to your kids now. I hope that my H steps up and becomes like that, whatever happens in our situation. Sadly, the way he is behaving at the moment he seems to be too selfish to become that kind of Dad. He chooses to spend his free time doing something else. I don't know what, but he sure isn't spending any of his daylight free time with them.

Originally Posted By: Zues126

At some point a fixed schedule will be set up. And at some point it will involve him having the children somewhere else. So let me ask- have you talked to a DB coach about this?

I wish I could talk to a DB coach about the whole thing Zues but I'm in the UK and really can't afford the fees. I wish I could.

Originally Posted By: Zues126

I didn't want you to rush things, but if this set up isn't working maybe it's time to push things along and get some type of formal schedule, maybe even a legal separation. I might be mixing up sitches but I'm pretty sure WAH has had serial affairs, right? I'm concerned at this point that he is happy with the current sitch as he can have his cake and eat it.

I'm concerned about this too Zues. Yes, you're right he has had several As with the same OW over a period of many years on and off. I'm afraid to push things but at the same time this current situation is not working.

Tonight H came round after not seeing the kids since his very brief visit on Saturday morning. He seemed put out that I hadn't asked him to tag along for the day yesterday. He looked drained and miserable. S upset him by showing him something he'd written to me the other day when he was upset. He had written how he would never forgive his Dad and didn't want to see him. H reacted by telling S he didn't find it appropriate that he write such things. Before that he had asked what our plans were for tomorrow and has suggested bowling - one of the ideas I was going to do with the kids. I told him I had to wait in for a delivery (which is true). He didn't seem happy about me not being able to go but I said it was something he'd have to get used to and I asked why he wanted me to go. He said it's because the kids will want me to go. I maybe reading too much into it but I think he is still very confused. He got very angry because I'd 'stopped him leaving' by pausing at the door to tell him I had to wait in for a delivery. He said he can't stop being angry and is angry all the time and that he just wants some peace. I tried to apologise for S's note and explained that he is a very upset and confused little boy. He got angry about that too and said that I am blind to S's behaviour and that S only wrote those words to get out of trouble. H really seems to think that this isn't affecting anyone, that we're all perfectly happy. He even said that he is still stepping up as a father despite having moved out. I had to bite me tongue at that - this is why I worry about what kind of father the children will have if we D - if he thinks how he is treating them now is 'stepping up as a father'.

After tonight's interactions and seeing H so tense about such a little thing as a quick chat at the door I am really worried that he is ill. Maybe this is just a MLC trait but it really does not seem rational to be so angry all of the time.

Thanks Irish, I'm not too bad, thank you. Trying hard to keep busy.

Hugs to you too.

Just highlighting some things that I think are important from today's interactions with H but do feel free to offer thoughts/suggestions if you have any:

1. He just wants some peace. (Me: I thought you'd had peace for the last 3 months, H: It doesn't feel like it). Note to self - go darker! Possibly do not be in same room when he visits?

2. He thinks he is stepping up as a father right now! Very sad that he thinks how he treats them right now is being a good father. Note to self - need to remind myself constantly that H is not himself and this is as much as he can give right now.

3. H looks sad permanently, never smiles, still struggling to sleep, still angry all the time. Note to self - I am not the cause of this and I cannot make H see that he needs some help.

4. H doesn't like it when I do things with kids without him knowing even though I know nothing about what he is up to when he's not here. Is this a sign that being dark is working?

5. H wants me to do things with him and kids 'because the kids will want me to.' Is this really him wanting me to go but he can't say it as it would show some kind of softening on his part?

6. I have felt happier the last few days since deciding to make a few changes in the house (decorative) without so much as a mention to H. Feel like I am taking some control of my own life back instead of feeling like I am thrashing about in H's ocean of chaos.

He made his bed, now he's laying in it.

Karma is a b!tch...

Originally Posted By: inpain

1. He just wants some peace. (Me: I thought you'd had peace for the last 3 months, H: It doesn't feel like it). Note to self - go darker! Possibly do not be in same room when he visits?

Not sure if you not being in the room will change anything. You need to try different things, find out what works best for you. Not looking for him to show a reaction. If it helps you get through it then do it.

2. He thinks he is stepping up as a father right now! Very sad that he thinks how he treats them right now is being a good father. Note to self - need to remind myself constantly that H is not himself and this is as much as he can give right now.

yes he is not himself. He cant see what he is doing wrong or good. Hopefully he grows up and sees what he is doing and make clear actions to want to fix it.

3. H looks sad permanently, never smiles, still struggling to sleep, still angry all the time. Note to self - I am not the cause of this and I cannot make H see that he needs some help.

I too see this with my MLC'r. so much pain they feel and their struggle. You can see it in their eyes and face. You are not the cause nor are your children. Your H has to see there are consequences for his behavior. I don't think he's felt them yet.

4. H doesn't like it when I do things with kids without him knowing even though I know nothing about what he is up to when he's not here. Is this a sign that being dark is working?

It's you GAL and if it upsets him let it. He chose not to participate in the family. You and your kids are a family still, just H stepped out. Let him watch from the sidelines.

5. H wants me to do things with him and kids 'because the kids will want me to.' Is this really him wanting me to go but he can't say it as it would show some kind of softening on his part?

It might be him wanted you to go. I hope that's the case. It might be cake eating or maybe so you can handle the kids. Who knows. You can't question his actions or comments until he shows true remorse and wants to fix things.

6. I have felt happier the last few days since deciding to make a few changes in the house (decorative) without so much as a mention to H. Feel like I am taking some control of my own life back instead of feeling like I am thrashing about in H's ocean of chaos.

GAL right there. taking care of you and your family including the house. Make it your place. H will surely see this and he might comment on it and he might not. Since he's in the house he surely see's it

Keep on your path Inpain. I see a strong women slowly seeing what she needs to do to make it through this.

Hugs

Irish

As the title says, I really can't take anymore! I feel like I'm going to explode into a pit of despair. Last night my Dad was rushed to A&E in an ambulance and after a few frantic texts and calls to WAH I managed to follow on while he sat with the kids. Thankfully my Dad is fine but needs some more test later in the week. But it's just like the straw that broke the camel's back. I can't take anymore. H was very kind and caring and even managed to unblock me from whatsapp so that I could stay in touch.

I've also lost the necklace H bought me for our 15th anniversary in Sept - searched high and low. Devastated about that too - probably the last thing he will ever buy me.

I broke down in front of H this afternoon and said I can't take anymore, told him to just tell me if he's never coming home. He shouted at me that he is never, ever, ever coming home. I asked him why he hasn't started D proceedings and he calmly said he doesn't know, that people he works with keep asking what he plans to do and he tells them he doesn't know either. He doesn't know what to do. He doesn't want to come back just for the house and kids but hasn't liked me for years!

He said he'd come round later tonight but then text saying he's not in the mood and to tell the kids he loves them. I knew he wouldn't come round again today, he never does if we have any kind of conversation.

He either genuinely doesn't know what to do or he knows he wants to D but hasn't the guts to do it.

I don't feel like I have the physical or mental strength to do any of this anymore. Sick of feeling like I'm dragging a lead weight on my back day in day out but at the same time I know there is no choice. Tomorrow will be the same, and the day after and I am sick of it all.

You have the strength. It's in there somewhere. Don't believe anything he says. He doesn't even know what he wants. Tomorrow might be worse or better, but we just have to keep breathing. You don't deserve that lead weight but acknowledge it and keep walking until it's light as a feather.

IP I'm so sorry to hear about your dad. Keep faith that with further tests the docs will find out. I know I'm not near you, but I'm right next to you mentally. You can count on me.

Regarding your H, at the moment he isn't your priority. YOU, your kids and your dad are! Let's have a look at what you said.

You have been able to be with your dad while your H was with kids. If he really was a nasty piece of merde, he'd not have cared. Thank him for helping you in a difficult situation.

Are you living together? Eating together? Being intimidate? No, so truthfully you are already divorced! Sorry to be blunt but you have nothing to loose in moving forward with your life. You are already doing it. Go LRT, go dark as at the moment you have a lot on your plate and you don't need H's indecision!

You are going through a difficult time and was looking for comfort from H. It didn't come. You are an amazing woman and a very good mum. Here there is nothing you can do. Your H has to deal with his own issues. Today is hard but tomorrow is another day.

Regarding filling, mine hasn't done it because it will cost him a lot of money, so I know that once the house is sold I'm expecting it. If he doesn't know I'll take it as him being confused and not wanting to rush into anything. So (without putting your hopes high, I see it as a good thing). Comparing to my case where money is the issue!

If you have to go LRT or dark, do it for your own emotional sanity! Are you seeing IC? Have you considered to go to doc and see if you could be help to take the edge off things?

My STBXH didn't ask me about how were my parents. The have always welcomed him, my mum even bought some food that likes and that I hate. Our H are no longer thee one we married, and to be honest would you be with someone like him right now?

I know it's really hard and out situation are very similar. Please put the focus back on you and your family (kids and dad). You'll get through this I promise you.

Sending you tons of hugs ((((((((((IP)))))))))))))

Thanks for the hugs Rouky and the well wishes for my Dad. He had a TIA but I was told initially he'd had a stroke. I was physically shaking driving to the hospital.

I think it's H's niceness I can't take. If he doesn't want to be with me then I just don't want to see him. I told him so today. I've probably broken every DB rule there is but today I just don't care. I've had enough of pussy footing round him and validating and being Mrs Nice while he just mopes around, still thinking and deciding. He actually had the gall to say to me this afternoon that he is still here to do things for me. I told him I don't want someone to do things for me I want someone to love me and be my husband and that if he doesn't want to do that then I'd rather never see him. I'm tired of his passifying little things that he does but then still clears off at the end of it back to his dad's house. It's unbelievable to have still not made a decision. Maybe he should toss a coin and decide our fates that way!

Sorry, I'm venting and ranting, I've just really had enough of him stringing us all along. Thanks for being there Rouky!

Oh and just now he sent me a photo of his tablet with a film on in his Dad's dining room. With a message saying it was to prove that he wasn't lying and is at his Dad's!?!?!

I'm sorry you are struggling in pain. You are not alone.

The pain can be debilitating, I know.

Considering what h said, I would suggest backing way off. Let him go for now. I'm in nc with my saw and its hard but I thinks easier than listening to them spew.

No need to worry and vent as much as you want. Regarding being nice with H, don't do it to get him back, do it because it makes you feel good! Because you are feeling at peace when you do it.

If it likes my kids, sometimes I have to toss the coin 3 times for everyone to be happy! I fully understand your limbo, you have to do what feels right for you, if it's going against DB rules then so be it. We are all human and we are entitle to make mistakes!

What are your plans for tomorrow? I have been to a health shop and I was advice to take some fish oil, vitamins D to help deal with my situation. I have been using them for the last 2 weeks and I feel no more different than if I was on AD!

There is no shame in getting help from natural medicines.

As I said our situation is very similar, I'm a bit ahead of you and I'm feeling better. Please focus on you, start to enjoy every little thing everyday. Today was the bird tweeting, even if it was early than I wanted to be I loved it. Wishing I was closer to you, so I'd be able to help you more.
(((((((((( hugs IP))))))))

Let it wash over you! My STBXH did the same while he was still seeing OW! Not worth you thinking of it! Let him go and stay away from him for now!

My W said she could flip a coin to decide which one of us to pick. It was humiliating. Finally I said go ahead. I won the coin toss but she still kicked me out and brought ow in to our bed. Grrrrrrrrrr.

Hi IP, how are you today?

Hi IP

Havent heard from you in a while.

Originally Posted By: inpain

Oh and just now he sent me a photo of his tablet with a film on in his Dad's dining room. With a message saying it was to prove that he wasn't lying and is at his Dad's!?!?!

Mine did the same. Only a picture is just a picture. I found out she was somewhere else when she sent the picture of her at her moms.

If your H feels he needs to prove his whereabouts and what he is doing let him. Doesn't change anything. Real actions are natural and not trying to prove something.

Hope things are better for you.

Irish

Sorry for being absent for so long and thank you all for caring enough to ask how I am. I'm not really sure is the answer to that question. I think I've reached some kind of saturation point and am just getting on with things because nothing is changing and I just needed a break from talking about it all.

My Dad has had some of his tests and they have found nothing wrong so now he has to have more tests over the coming weeks but he feels fine so that's good.

Last week was eventful to say the least. I ended up being sent home from work in a state on the Wednesday because a colleague broke it to me that she has heart it is all around our village that H is having an affair with one of the women in the village. I almost collapsed from the shock and physical nausea feeling the news gave me. I went straight to confront H at his Dad's about it. He laughed at first and profusely denied it, despite me sitting in front of him in a complete state! Then he got angry that such a rumour was circulating about him and wanted to march off to confront the people saying it. He swears it is ludicrous and that he does nothing except work, sleep and come see the kids. After the initial shock I don't really feel anything about it. I think I have just had so much thrown at me to deal with by him that now I am just numb to it all.

At the weekend it was the anniversary of his Mum's death so I got flowers and cards for him and his Dad from me and the kids and we took them round. Not DBing but I am not going to change my thoughtful and compassionate nature just because I'm DBing. H couldn't have made us feel more unwelcome when we took them round so we only stayed a couple of minutes. He wanted us all to go out to tea later in the day but he didn't show so we went out just the three of us.

I'm just keeping myself busy with fun things with the kids and the basic hectic work of being a single Mum while working full time. It is exhausting. I'm exhausted and there doesn't seem to be enough hours in the day.

H is still the same. Coming round every evening if he isn't at work and just sits, doing nothing. S has had another rant at him about how much he hates him for what he's doing to 'us' and told him he doesn't want him to come round anymore.

I realised today that it will be 4 months next Tuesday since he left and still he apparently doesn't know what he wants to do. I feel like he has almost burned his bridges now. I don't want a divorce, don't want to be a single Mum but with all he's doing I'm not even sure anymore how I feel about him. This scares me and makes me so sad that if he does decide he wants to come back I won't want him to.

Going to try to catch up on everyone's situations now.

So good to hear from you. Glad to see that your dad test came back good and it's good they are trying to find out what is wrong with your dad.

Regarding your H I don't know what to say. I know it's very hard. My heart goes to you. I don't have anything to say apart that I'm glad that you are back and I missed you.

Keep being strong for your kids. It does get easier as each day goes back. I still love my STBXH, unfortunately I don't see any improvement in my situation. Could you limit his access to the house like I did with mine?

Hi IP
Good news for your Dad. Hope the upcoming test help out.

Nice of you to show your sympathy to your MIL.
Even if you felt unwelcome , you were there for you and the kids.
Be true to yourself :-)

If H is in an affair. He will deny it. My W denied hers even when she moved on with him. I hope it's not the case but its part of MLC

You are numb and I understand your feelings about maybe not loving him or not wanting to take him back. Your H is now someone else. He's a stranger , how could you want or feel for him.

The memory is what you miss and are in love with. He's somewhere on a shelf waiting for this new H to take him down and become him again.

Many bridges will be burned. He will have to rebuild them all by himself. Sure if he does the work you can cheer him on. But don't try to give him any bricks, he'll throw those over the side in the river below.

I think you are at the stage where you are thinking about what you want. It's good. Take a step forward, let H follow you.

Hugs to you IP
Still not easy I know

Hey, IP. It has been 4 months...my time flies when you're having fun, right?

It get's old, this bit about not knowing what they want to do. I'm almost to that point of not waiting around for him to call...almost. Its still in the back of my mind (I still look at the clock to see if his work day is done sometimes), but hey...26 year habit. Plus he does throw me by randomly calling, much like your H just showing up.

I've gone back and forth on whether I'd want him if he came back, too. But I've decided that this fits an MLC so well, and that I've been seeing it evolve for years, even seeing changes since BD, so I will continue to DB the heck out of the sitch. My D is in full swing, and I believe it will end our M (on paper), but...still standing. Focus on me.

I see your changes. You are writing with a different tone. I hear the exhaustion and toll this situation is taking on you. But I think that is what makes you finally start to really see the importance of DBing, of focusing on you. He has his own journey, whether or not there is an OW doesn't even matter once you get so tired of the situation that you HAVE to just give up and focus on yourself. You are almost there. Don't feel the least bit guilty about that when you do. I think Zues said something about giving up on your M to save it. Drop the rope...be that single mom you don't want to be...you will do it and be fabulous. A woman only a fool would leave. Also, If you love someone, set them free...you know the rest.

You are almost there, strength buddy.

Happy that your Dad's tests were good.

Hi IP, how are you?

Hi IP
Just sending you some positive energy this morning

Hope you, your dad and your kids are all doing well.

Take care :-)

[quote=Irish M]
You are numb and I understand your feelings about maybe not loving him or not wanting to take him back. Your H is now someone else. He's a stranger , how could you want or feel for him.

The memory is what you miss and are in love with. He's somewhere on a shelf waiting for this new H to take him down and become him again.

Many bridges will be burned. He will have to rebuild them all by himself. Sure if he does the work you can cheer him on. But don't try to give him any bricks, he'll throw those over the side in the river below. [quote]

Hi Irish, thank you so much for this post, there were such a lot of truths in there!

The last few weeks I have felt exactly as you describe and my Dad says the same as you - that I am in love with a memory. It is hard to accept. I feel like I don't want him back anymore and that thought terrifies me. Also, true to MLC form, because I now feel like that he seems to be drawing back in.

Thank you for keeping checking on me despite my absence. I really do appreciate it so much. I have had a bad few weeks and needed some time away from the boards.

Originally Posted By: ciluzen

I've gone back and forth on whether I'd want him if he came back, too. [quote]

Hi Ciluzen, thank you so much for checking in on me, I really appreciate it! I was so glad to read your above line. It is reassuring to know I'm not the only one who feels this way. My own thoughts terrify me right now. I do not feel that I want him to come back any more and it breaks my heart for myself and our children. Typically, he seems to be warming up towards me now that I feel this way. It leaves me feeling very confused.

[quote=ciluzen]
I see your changes. You are writing with a different tone. I hear the exhaustion and toll this situation is taking on you. But I think that is what makes you finally start to really see the importance of DBing, of focusing on you.

You are so right here too, I do feel totally and utterly drained by the whole situation and feel like I've just given up now.

Originally Posted By: Rouky

Hi IP, how are you?

Hi Rouky, thanks for checking on me, I really appreciate it! I'm OK but confused and sad. I needed some time away from here, it has been an interesting few weeks to say the least.

OK, so here's what has been going on with me since my last post. I hope it is normal/usual to feel the way I do now. I feel sad and confused and worried because I do not feel like I want H to come back any more. The reason this is so scary is because he seems to be trying to work his way back now that I feel this way! I guess it is true that once you have your own life they come crawling back.

Thank you all for your concerns about my Dad. He is still having tests but they still haven't found a cause for his mini stroke, which is great in one way but concerining in another, as at least if they found a cause they could perhaps do something about preventing any further attacks. He still has a couple more tests to go through.

So...I mentioned last time about the affair rumour. I have heard no more about it and haven't mentioned it to H again. He is adamant there is nothing going on and strangely (or perhaps not), since then he has started staying here after the kids go to bed (a sign he wants to get back together?).

It was my daughter's birthday during my absence from the boards. We always have a family tea party for my children's birthdays, obviously this was going to be awkward given the current situation. Weeks ago I broached the subject with my daughter, explained to her that Daddy wouldn't come if Grandma, Granddad, Aunty and Uncle and Nephew came. She said she still wanted a party with all of them and that it was OK if Daddy couldn't come too! So, that's what I planned. She ended up having to go to a dance rehearsal on the evening of her birthday so we had her tea party at lunchtime. H came round in the morning and watched her open the presents that I'd bought with no input from him. He stayed until my family were due and even helped by hoovering for me while I prepared food.

Before he left he told me I'd done an amazing job on the cake and the party and that I looked really pretty. He asked me to text him when my family had gone. He was supposed to be at work but had taken the day off unbeknown to me. It was around 7pm when we got back from her rehearsal and I text H. He came round and was drunk. I couldn't believe it. He took so long to come round after my text that the kids were about to get in bed. He was crying when he tucked our daughter into bed.

We ended up having a huge row about the fact that he had come round here drunk. He said he was upset that he hadn't his daughter blow out her candles on her birthday but my family had. I apologised that it was so difficult for him but that that is how it is when you get divorced. He hasn't done any thinking aboout these kinds of things and the events one or the other of us will end up missing out on because of divorce. I have implored him to think about these things many times but it has always fallen on deaf ears. Interesting that the first time he actually misses out on something he gets angry and upset. He shouted at me that he has left me not the kids. I didn't raise my voice once, which I was very proud of. I remained calm and validating and apologetic. I said that unfortunately, when you have young children, you can't leave their mum without leaving them too. He stormed out in the end and I sobbed myself to sleep.

The next morning he was very apologetic. My Dad sent him a text - he has stayed out of things until now but he was really not impressed with him turning up drunk! That night I just didn't care any more if I DBd or not and I gave H an ultimatum. I told him he either starts making steps to build bridges and get back together or he stops coming in the house, sees the kids a couple of times a week but has to take them out of this house. I told him I had a relationship repair book with talking exercises in it to do to try to repair things. I didn't hear from him for a couple of days and then he came round to see the kids and when he went to leave he said, "If you get that book out we will start the exercises tomorrow night if you like." I have taken that to be his non-committal way of saying he would like to try to repair things.

We have done five days of the exercises now and he is staying to sit with me every night after the kids go to bed until it is time to go to bed, then he leaves. He has also started doing things like touching me on the shoulder when he talks to me. He didn't ask to be involved in Easter and I didn't ask him. He was on a night shift and was in bed all day anyway. He didn't make any effort to see my daughter in her dance competition and it was her first one. That made me sad as he has taken several days off here and there since he's left us, for absolutely no reason whatsoever, yet he doesn't take the day off to support his daughter.

So, that's where I am at now. We are doing these relationship repair exercises but it feels that H is very half-hearted in it. His responses are always vague and it is clear that he cannot bear to shoulder any blame for anything. He does seem to be warming up in other ways though with the staying after the kids are in bed etc. I fear it is all too little too late. I don't look at him and feel any spark - he is not the man I was in love with - I don't know if it is another sign of MLC but his dress sense seems to have taken a nose dive. He looks awful and smells of moth balls all the time from his Dad's wardrobe. Then I feel shallow for thinking like that. I feel sad that I might not want him back and he's going to turn round and say he wants to come back. What do I do then? It is what I dreamed of for weeks and now I feel like the kids and I are enjoying our lives without him. The house is certainly so much more organised and less stressed without him. I actually feel quite content and proud to be doing it all on my own. I wonder if it is normal to feel this way? It is almost 5 months since he left.

Are you getting any benefit from the exercises? Is there an alternative that could more suit H? Maybe he would be more active if he found another method that suited him.

Regardless it is positive that he is doing them.

I imagine your own feelings are normal enough. Take your time to decide. Let H use that gift of time to become someone worthy of being taken back! The roles have reversed. You have the power.Keep strong.

I agree with Roiste that is a positive him doing the test. You have shown great courage and resilience in your situation.

You are feeling content because your life carries on as you still need to get up and deal with kids. I think that you have accepted that it's life now and that you'll carry on doing what you are doing regardless of what happens.

Last week was my year anniversary and I have accepted now that it's over. I think I'm with the proverb that says it's a little too late. I can see glimpse of hope in your situation, so take each day as it comes and look after yourself.

Let us know how you are getting on :-)

Glad you posted again.

I'm not a fan of getting fed up with DBing and issuing an ultimatum. And I don't like how preoccupied you are on how you feel.

Giving up on the DB method because you're tired of doing it doesn't make sense to me. You can give up on being attached. You can give up on worrying about his reactions to your behavior. But to act in ways that hurt your chances of saving the M...well, if things didn't work out it would be hard for me to look back and feel good about how I handled things. When you have regrets in 2, 5, 10, and 20 years, you'd always wonder what would have happened if you hadn't have acted on your impatience and exasperation.

Roiste made the comment that the power has shifted, and I'm sure that's an appealing idea after feeling powerless for so long. I don't think that's the case, or the right approach. You've already mentioned he's not being as committal as you wanted, and that was after your ultimatum, so obviously it didn't get you exactly what you wanted anyway.

My fear for you is that it will play out poorly. You will be emotionally disengaged, resentful of the pain he caused, distrustful, and wanting to see more and more from him to show he knows how much he hurt you and prove it won't happen again, and looking more for him to do things to restore your feelings. He in turn is actually VERY conflicted and will look at your dissatisfaction with his efforts and your hurt and resentment and distancing and caution as a sign that he can't win with you, and he will look at these exercises as proof he tried EVERYTHING he could, and that when he gives up and walks away from this he won't look back.

Doesn't have to play out that way, but it could very easily.

So my advice would be to DB whether you feel like it or not, period. To commit to standing by your M whether you feel like it or not. To back burner your feelings and trust that if you save your M they will come back. And to avoid trying to use your indignant attitude as a substitute for detachment in an effort to control his behavior by trying to turn the tables.

Since he is openminded and willing to do these exercises what I'd recommend is getting professional help. Validate him on what he's doing, and the concerns he might have, then say that since he's open to the discussion you'd like to get someone to help guide you through. I'm not saying you can't fix this on your own, but I don't like that you're dictating the way in which you reconnect instead of doing it collaboratively, and I think a professional would give you an honest chance. One you'll be grateful you took years from now.

So I'd make one big push for retrouville and a DB coach together, don't allow yourself to think of a score card or what you've been through to convince yourself he's 'playing on your terms', and commit to a productive action plan without regards to the mood of the day.

All said, I wish you the best and the strength to get through whatever lies ahead.

Originally Posted By: Zues126

Glad you posted again.

I'm not a fan of getting fed up with DBing and issuing an ultimatum. And I don't like how preoccupied you are on how you feel.

Giving up on the DB method because you're tired of doing it doesn't make sense to me. You can give up on being attached. You can give up on worrying about his reactions to your behavior. But to act in ways that hurt your chances of saving the M...well, if things didn't work out it would be hard for me to look back and feel good about how I handled things. When you have regrets in 2, 5, 10, and 20 years, you'd always wonder what would have happened if you hadn't have acted on your impatience and exasperation.

Hi Zues, thank you for your, as always, insightful post, I really appreciate it. I didn't say I'd given up on DB though, just that I didn't care if I DBd or not on that particular night, after he had shown up drunk in front of our children. I am still DBing. Maybe I shouldn't have issued an ultimatum, but I did and I can't take it back now. I don't feel it has backfired however. I cannot continue to live a life in limbo where H comes round every single day to sit with the kids for hours on end while I melt into the background and make myself scarce each time. It was no good for my sanity and I take DBing to be saving yourself whilst also keeping the door open to fix the M. Letting him walk in and out of the house at will was not saving myself.

Originally Posted By: Zues126

Roiste made the comment that the power has shifted, and I'm sure that's an appealing idea after feeling powerless for so long. I don't think that's the case, or the right approach. You've already mentioned he's not being as committal as you wanted, and that was after your ultimatum, so obviously it didn't get you exactly what you wanted anyway.

I agree with you, I don't think the power has shifted either. My H is willingly doing the reconciliation exercises so I think the ultimatum did work. What I meant by non-committal is that he didn't say, "I want us to get back together so let's do the exercises." He is talking openly during the exercises and also staying after the children are in bed to sit and talk in general. All of which I think are good signs.

Originally Posted By: Zues126

My fear for you is that it will play out poorly. You will be emotionally disengaged, resentful of the pain he caused, distrustful, and wanting to see more and more from him to show he knows how much he hurt you and prove it won't happen again, and looking more for him to do things to restore your feelings. He in turn is actually VERY conflicted and will look at your dissatisfaction with his efforts and your hurt and resentment and distancing and caution as a sign that he can't win with you, and he will look at these exercises as proof he tried EVERYTHING he could, and that when he gives up and walks away from this he won't look back.

I have the same fears Zues! I know exactly what you mean and I do think in the back of my mind that he is only doing the exercises so that he can walk away guilt free and say that he tried everything. I might be wrong though. He has said that he wants to leave no stone unturned - that is why he's doing the exercises. He has also said that it is nice that we are able to sit and talk without arguing. I don't know. I guess only time will tell.

Originally Posted By: Zues126

So my advice would be to DB whether you feel like it or not, period. To commit to standing by your M whether you feel like it or not. To back burner your feelings and trust that if you save your M they will come back. And to avoid trying to use your indignant attitude as a substitute for detachment in an effort to control his behavior by trying to turn the tables.

As I said, I am still DBing, I just didn't that particular night. I don't feel that I am indignant and my ultimatum didn't come out of indignancy either. I don't agree with parents being drunk in front of their children and felt the need to say that enough is enough. A little tipsy at an occasion where drink is on offer, like a wedding or new year, maybe, but totally drunk, no.

Originally Posted By: Zues126

Since he is openminded and willing to do these exercises what I'd recommend is getting professional help. Validate him on what he's doing, and the concerns he might have, then say that since he's open to the discussion you'd like to get someone to help guide you through. I'm not saying you can't fix this on your own, but I don't like that you're dictating the way in which you reconnect instead of doing it collaboratively, and I think a professional would give you an honest chance. One you'll be grateful you took years from now.

My H won't see a professional. He thinks they're a load of rubbish, sadly. We saw one years ago when I discovered all the letters etc from his 2nd EA with the same OW and he thought it a waste of time and money. Wouldn't he see it as me controlling things? At the moment he feels he is controlling this as he made the call to begin the exercises, I only told him of their existence!

I truly hope you will post again Zues, I value your posts so much, they are always thoughtful and helpful.

IP regarding MC, when you did it maybe your H was still in love with OW, so it wouldn't have been worth anything or maybe he doesn't want to be told that he has a problem. I went to MC with STBXH but he was with OW so had no intention to deal with his own issues! At the beginning of our separation he started to see IC but it only lasted 2 months. You can make your H go it has to come from him.

Look after yourself and your kids is all the best you can do at the moment. Thinking of you my friend :-)

How many therapists does it take to change a light bulb?

Only one, but the light bulb has to want to change...

Originally Posted By: Rouky

IP regarding MC, when you did it maybe your H was still in love with OW, so it wouldn't have been worth anything or maybe he doesn't want to be told that he has a problem. I went to MC with STBXH but he was with OW so had no intention to deal with his own issues! At the beginning of our separation he started to see IC but it only lasted 2 months. You can make your H go it has to come from him.

Sadly Rouky it is the latter: H cannot stand being wrong or anyone thinking bad of him. None of our issues have ever been caused by him: even the OW! You're right, I cannot make him go. I think at this point to even suggest it would scare him away again.

Originally Posted By: Zues126

How many therapists does it take to change a light bulb?

Only one, but the light bulb has to want to change...

Love it Zues, made me laugh!

IP you have to stay strong, at the present you can only work on yourself and create your life how you want it. I don't want to be optimistic with your situation but I see some positives. You are in a better place than me with my STBXH, don't try to rush it. Take it as it comes and evaluate the progress.

You are a very strong woman and I have every confidence you will do well no matter what :-)

Hi Inpain
I completely understand your taking some time away from the forum. Its not easy sometimes reading about all these situations and some of them have been going on for years.

It does look like your situation has taken a turn. I really hope your H makes the effort to fix his mess. You seem stronger now that before. I could see it in you but know i feel it in your words and actions.

Take it slow. Hopefully he is on his path back to you and your family. Let's hope hes learned what he needs to, Don't need this to be repeated in another 9 years.

thanks for your post on my situation. It was good hearing from you.... even though i was hoping you left the forum because things were so much better, i'm glad you are here for you and for those who need your story so they can learn from it as well.

hugs
Irish

Originally Posted By: inpain

Sadly Rouky it is the latter: H cannot stand being wrong or anyone thinking bad of him. None of our issues have ever been caused by him: even the OW! You're right, I cannot make him go. I think at this point to even suggest it would scare him away again.

That all sounds very familiar!

I don't exactly *like* being wrong, either, but I have definitely admitted to and apologized for things I wish I had done differently in the M. (Come to think of it, I don't think H actually has done that... he has tried to change some things, but usually an admission from me just makes him list more things I have done wrong...)

Thanks Rouky. I don't feel strong at the moment. I feel impatient. I'm really trying hard to reign the feelings of impatience in while we do the exercises in this book. We only have 6 more days of these exercises left to do. I guess I just don't understand the WAS and their reluctance to give any concrete indications about where things are heading. I can't understand how they can just shrug off such a major life changing event!

Don't get me wrong, I am so glad we're doing the exercises and it must be a positive sign but I don't know what is supposed to happen at the end of it. Also, deep down, I'm seething towards H that he could do this to the children for 5 months when he clearly isn't sure he wants a D. I feel unsure as to how I could love him properly again. Maybe that's normal when you start trying to get back together, I don't know.

Hi Irish, it's so good to hear from you!

You're right about the boards, it can be pretty depressing reading about all the pain and sorrow and there aren't many that actually get back together. It makes grim reading.

Originally Posted By: IrishM

Take it slow. Hopefully he is on his path back to you and your family. Let's hope hes learned what he needs to, Don't need this to be repeated in another 9 years.

Well said! It is so hard to take it slow, I just want the pain and heartache to be over, but at the same time, even if he came back tomorrow, I don't know how to get over the pain of what he has done to not just me but our children. It is the fact that he could do this to them that makes me unsure of how I feel about him. He is not the man I thought he was and he continues to show no empathy for how S11 feels about what he has done. It cannot just be swept under the carpet. I think he is afraid to come back and afraid to D. My family don't want me to get back together with him at all! They say that he's done it twice and he'll do it again. My parents are worried that they won't be around anymore when he does it next time and I'll have no one to turn to. H doesn't seem to realise that what he has done hasn't just impacted me, it has impacted so many people who trusted him again after the first time he left. It is going to be a long, hard road back and I'm worried he doesn't have what it takes to do it. He is very self centred. I absolutely don't want to be here again in another 9 years!

hugs, IP

Hi Painter, thanks for your post I really appreciate it.

Yes, my H is the same. Even when doing these exercises. They are given as a series of sentence openers. They all use 'I' and 'you' and 'me', but whenever it's Hs turn he starts off with the 'I' in the printed sentence then changes to 'people' feel this, that or the other when... for the rest of what he says. He cannot take ownership of anything. Even his own feelings!

Thanks Rouky. I don't feel strong at the moment. I feel impatient. I'm really trying hard to reign the feelings of impatience in while we do the exercises in this book. We only have 6 more days of these exercises left to do. I guess I just don't understand the WAS and their reluctance to give any concrete indications about where things are heading.

when you are spinning in circles then the direction is unknown.

I can't understand how they can just shrug off such a major life changing event!

Mind reading my lovely. Imputing motives

Don't get me wrong, I am so glad we're doing the exercises and it must be a positive sign but I don't know what is supposed to happen at the end of it.

Detach and please let go of expectations.

Also , deep down, I'm seething towards H that he could do this to the children for 5 months when he clearly isn't sure he wants a D.

This makes sense to him, he has reasons no matter how out of the box they seem to you.

I feel unsure as to how I could love him properly again.

Do you have an IC to discuss this with?

Maybe that's normal when you start trying to get back together, I don't know.
It can be and I think it would be helpful for you to know if this is the case for you.

V

Hi inpain I'm not really sure what to say apart from I feel your pain. My h has dropped this on me again and I feel so exhausted. In struggling too much right now to get my head together.

Reading through some of your posts are helpful, as they feel like I could have written some of them.

How did you get through this the last time?

Hi Vanilla, thank you so much for posting!

Your post gives me a lot to think about. You are right, I need to detach and let go of expectations, I am struggling with not having expectations from doing these exercises.

Originally Posted By: Vanilla

This makes sense to him, he has reasons no matter how out of the box they seem to you.

This comment was very thought provoking! I see what you're saying, that H has his reasons. I suppose what I'm really saying is that whatever his reasons, the fact that he (to me) has acted so selfishly the last 5 months with total disregard to what it is doing to the children, makes me see him in a different light. He's not the man I thought he was. I can't think of anything in the world bad enough to leave my children over. I know...I'm not him.

Originally Posted By: Vanilla

It can be and I think it would be helpful for you to know if this is the case for you.

This is keeping me awake at night at the moment. Until we started doing the exercises in this book I had been feeling so much better. I was getting on great without him and starting to think that, yes, I can do this. I'm seriously worried my feelings have gone for H because of all the pain he has caused me (and the children) with this event and all the others over the years. I don't know how to determine if it is normal to feel like this at the beginning of a possible reconciliation or if I have truly lost my feelings for him. My worry is the children being hurt further by another BD.

Hi Cherry, thanks for posting!

I'm so sorry your H has done this again and can understand your exhaustion. DBing seems to be an endless, thankless task. If you're like me, even friends and family don't understand and constantly tell me to give up and I'd be better off without H because of everything he's done!

How did I get through this last time? It was so much easier last time. At that time I was crazy in love with H and after only 2 weeks of NC he started asking me to go on days out with him and our little boy who was 2 at the time. After 4 months he came home but I know now that we rushed that part of it and I let him back in way too easily. He didn't have to work for the R at all and I think that has given him an air of invincibility. He seems to think he can do whatever he likes and I will just always put up with it and be there.

Every trip out I was the perfect DBer. No R talk, and always portrayed my happiest self. I cried myself to sleep every night though.

It is harder this time because I'm not as crazy in love with him because of the years of mistrust due to his repeated contact with OW. It is also harder because now it is affecting our children. They are older and they are hurting and my mummy bear instinct kicks in. Last time our son was only 2 and I just told him daddy was at work all the time. To this day he doesn't know daddy left for 4 months.

I had a quick read of some of your posts and I know how awful it is to be living like that. The last few months before H walked out he was like that with me. Look after yourself Cherry, I know it's hard.

Just journalling really. We have continued to do the exercises in the book every night. H definitely seems to be 'warming up' towards me. He comes every night without fail and when I was bed ridden on Saturday due to illness he sat with the kids all day and was very attentive and caring towards me.

He has surprised me yesterday too actually. He was on his day shift which means he has to be up at 5am. He didn't get back from work until 6:45pm and text me to say he'd just got in. 'Here's tonight's excuse!' I thought. Ever since he left a text like that has always preceded another saying, "Not coming round, tired, going to bed early." To my surprise he still came round and stayed until the kids were in bed so that we could do the book.

Only 3 more exercises to do. I'm still very worried about my own feelings and struggling to make sense of them. At the back of my mind there is a little voice telling me that I deserve better than someone who cuts and runs whenever the M hits a period where it's not all head over heels love.

Quote:

At the back of my mind there is a little voice telling me that I deserve better than someone who cuts and runs whenever the M hits a period where it's not all head over heels love.

He might be someone that cuts and runs when the M hits a tough patch...but then again he's here doing the exercises so maybe he is someone that has the commitment to work through those tough times. In fact, if you look at most M's, the best of them go through times like this, the majority don't make it. Glass half full.

Meanwhile, hold yourself to the same standard and focus on what YOU bring. He deserves someone that doesn't feel they deserve better when he's navigating through the hardest patch in his life. Be supportive, patient, appreciative, and loyal. That's what he deserves. Provide that and let him worry about his half.

Your WH will mourn the loss of his R with OW if it truly is over.

Waywards aren't usually in love with their A partner, they are in love with the way they feel about thems elves whilst in the A.

By becoming the best you can be you stand to win a new R with your WH.

I believe it is about attracting your WH back to you. A new R doesn't start because you are a great mother or a wonderful wife. It happens because two people are attracted to each other.

That works two ways, we are attracted to those who are attracted to us. Truly that is the case.

Are you attracted to WH?

This troubles you and I think this is natural, when we are hurt it is natural to be protective of ourselves.

Are you hanging on to OW as well as WH missing the feelings he gets from his A.

I often see LBS being obsessed with an OM or OW, when in actual fact it is their spouses behaviour which is the issue. Most As don't survive the spotlight on them, they only work in secrecy and the limmerance phase. Waywards would feel that way about a kangaroo if that gave them the feeling they needEd. Any port in a storm.

So can you be attracted to your WH?

V

Hey, IP. I just wanted to pop over and say hello. I'm still here keeping up on your situation and you seem to be doing well (even if you don't feel it sometimes). You are getting great advice from everyone and a lot of great insight.

I do want to point out one thing in your posts.

"I suppose what I'm really saying is that whatever his reasons, the fact that he (to me) has acted so selfishly the last 5 months with total disregard to what it is doing to the children, makes me see him in a different light."

I really don't think he is acting completely selfish or disregarding what he is doing to the children. He is coming over to your house to spend time with them. He may not know HOW to spend time with them the way YOU would like him to, but he is making an effort to be with them. This shows he is aware that his absence affects them and he is trying to stay in their lives. He cares, but is fighting his own inner battles as well.

He is also attempting to work with you on the exercises in the book. This is not a sign of someone who doesn't care. He is making an effort.

You are describing a man who is tired, exhausted, by work and whatever emotional turmoil is going on inside of him. As you well know from your own emotional turmoil, it is exhausting and debilitating. Add to that the fact that whatever is going on with him, he felt he HAD to leave; and now he has to split time between his own life and the life of the family he obviously still feels responsible for. And he STILL COMES OVER.

I know this is hard. Very, very hard. I'm not discounting your feelings. I see your strength, your love for your children, and your confusion and...yes, your ANGER at your H. It is unfair. But you actually have the upper hand. You just don't realize it yet.

You have a purpose. You have the love and support of your children as well as the duty to take care of them. He is the one left out of this picture by his own actions. Do you really think he doesn't feel that? Focus on your kids and focus on you... not on the "problem" your H has become. Right now, he is fighting an enormous battle within himself. He doesn't have any idea how to handle his issues. You can't fight his battle for him or hurry him along. YOU CAN BE THE LIGHTHOUSE, BUT YOU CANNOT STEER THE SHIP AWAY FROM THE ROCKS. YOU CANNOT STEER THE SHIP AT ALL. JUST SIT ON YOUR ROCK AND SHINE YOUR LIGHT. LET HIM RIDE IT OUT OR STEER HIS SHIP. AS A LIGHTHOUSE, YOU DON'T EVEN NEED TO WATCH.

H is out there steering his ship in the dark. Let him. It is kind to yourself and to him to let him find his own way. It shows strength if you can stop thinking of how selfish he is and start understanding how in pain Mr. Inpain is and let him deal with it on his own. Hug your kids, be their fun and happy mom, enjoy them and show them the strength of your understanding and patience with your H's battle.

If you can shift your focus away, it will get better. It really will.

Originally Posted By: inpain

I'm still very worried about my own feelings and struggling to make sense of them. At the back of my mind there is a little voice telling me that I deserve better than someone who cuts and runs whenever the M hits a period where it's not all head over heels love.

Hi Inpain,
you have a H who is doing the work. that voice in your head is both instinct and protection. You like me have experienced this twice from our spouses. We deserve a medal or do we deserve a kick in the butt. It's normal your guard is up.

I pray your H has learned what he needed to be complete and is not still halfway through his journey. OW needs to be out of his thoughts and life.

Take your time. You may only have 3 lessons left together but your H has a long way to go. He needs to regain your trust. Not an easy task if you don't let him try. It will hopefully be a new relationship with a matured H who knows what he wants. Let's pray he has figured this out.

hugs

Originally Posted By: Zues126

He might be someone that cuts and runs when the M hits a tough patch...but then again he's here doing the exercises so maybe he is someone that has the commitment to work through those tough times. In fact, if you look at most M's, the best of them go through times like this, the majority don't make it. Glass half full.

Meanwhile, hold yourself to the same standard and focus on what YOU bring. He deserves someone that doesn't feel they deserve better when he's navigating through the hardest patch in his life. Be supportive, patient, appreciative, and loyal. That's what he deserves. Provide that and let him worry about his half.

Zues, thank you so much for this post! It is very deep and meaningful and is helping me to see things from H's point of view too. It is hard to remember that the WAS is having a hard time when it is their choice. Thank you for the reminder.

Originally Posted By: Vanilla

Your WH will mourn the loss of his R with OW if it truly is over.

It has been over for years Vanilla (well, as far as I know, of course) but the fallout from it has troubled our M ever since.

Originally Posted By: Vanilla

I believe it is about attracting your WH back to you. A new R doesn't start because you are a great mother or a wonderful wife. It happens because two people are attracted to each other.

That works two ways, we are attracted to those who are attracted to us. Truly that is the case.

Are you attracted to WH?

This is what makes me so afraid and sad Vanilla - I don't think I am

. All I see when I look at him is a man who has caused me pain over and over again for years and right now he is not a person I can even like, never mind be attracted to.

Originally Posted By: Vanilla

So can you be attracted to your WH?

V

I really don't know. I think it would take a LOT of work from him and I don't think he would be prepared to do the work. This has been proven from the last few years after the fallout from his EA. He wasn't prepared to put in the work to build up my trust. He thought I should be over it all and happy after a couple of months.

Originally Posted By: ciluzen

Hey, IP. I just wanted to pop over and say hello. I'm still here keeping up on your situation and you seem to be doing well (even if you don't feel it sometimes). You are getting great advice from everyone and a lot of great insight.

I do want to point out one thing in your posts.

"I suppose what I'm really saying is that whatever his reasons, the fact that he (to me) has acted so selfishly the last 5 months with total disregard to what it is doing to the children, makes me see him in a different light."

I really don't think he is acting completely selfish or disregarding what he is doing to the children. He is coming over to your house to spend time with them. He may not know HOW to spend time with them the way YOU would like him to, but he is making an effort to be with them. This shows he is aware that his absence affects them and he is trying to stay in their lives. He cares, but is fighting his own inner battles as well.

Ciluzen, thank you so, so much for this post, it is amazing! It has really made me think about things and see some good points to H's behaviour instead of me just thinking painful, angry thoughts about him.

Originally Posted By: Ciluzen

He is also attempting to work with you on the exercises in the book. This is not a sign of someone who doesn't care. He is making an effort.

Again, you are right. His behaviour over these past months has been so frustrating it is hard for me to see passed that and see some good in the situation. Deep down I feel like it is just another stall for time from him I think.

Originally Posted By: Ciluzen

You are describing a man who is tired, exhausted, by work and whatever emotional turmoil is going on inside of him. As you well know from your own emotional turmoil, it is exhausting and debilitating. Add to that the fact that whatever is going on with him, he felt he HAD to leave; and now he has to split time between his own life and the life of the family he obviously still feels responsible for. And he STILL COMES OVER.

Again you are right, I really hadn't thought of it like that at all.

Originally Posted By: Ciluzen

I know this is hard. Very, very hard. I'm not discounting your feelings. I see your strength, your love for your children, and your confusion and...yes, your ANGER at your H. It is unfair. But you actually have the upper hand. You just don't realize it yet.

You have a purpose. You have the love and support of your children as well as the duty to take care of them. He is the one left out of this picture by his own actions. Do you really think he doesn't feel that?

It is hard for me to see that he feels it but I would like to think that he does. Except for our daughter's birthday a couple of weeks ago he hasn't shown that he feels like he's missing out at all, but you are right, he is the one left out by his own actions.

Originally Posted By: Ciluzen

Focus on your kids and focus on you... not on the "problem" your H has become. Right now, he is fighting an enormous battle within himself. He doesn't have any idea how to handle his issues. You can't fight his battle for him or hurry him along. YOU CAN BE THE LIGHTHOUSE, BUT YOU CANNOT STEER THE SHIP AWAY FROM THE ROCKS. YOU CANNOT STEER THE SHIP AT ALL. JUST SIT ON YOUR ROCK AND SHINE YOUR LIGHT. LET HIM RIDE IT OUT OR STEER HIS SHIP. AS A LIGHTHOUSE, YOU DON'T EVEN NEED TO WATCH.

I love this! I absolutely love it Ciluzen, thank you, thank you!

Originally Posted By: Ciluzen

H is out there steering his ship in the dark. Let him. It is kind to yourself and to him to let him find his own way. It shows strength if you can stop thinking of how selfish he is and start understanding how in pain Mr. Inpain is and let him deal with it on his own. Hug your kids, be their fun and happy mom, enjoy them and show them the strength of your understanding and patience with your H's battle.

If you can shift your focus away, it will get better. It really will.

This part made me cry the first time I read it, I truly hope you're right about the getting better part. Whichever way it gets better. I am certainly doing lots of hugging and fun with my kids. I truly don't know where I'd be without them right now! x

Originally Posted By: Irish M

Hi Inpain,
you have a H who is doing the work. that voice in your head is both instinct and protection. You like me have experienced this twice from our spouses. We deserve a medal or do we deserve a kick in the butt. It's normal your guard is up.

Hi Irish, thank you so much for this post, it has really helped me! I ask myself the 'medal or kick in the butt' question on a daily basis! My family think it is the latter that I need! You are right, I think the fact that it is the second time we have been put through this gives a whole different aspect to it all.

Originally Posted By: IrishM

Take your time. You may only have 3 lessons left together but your H has a long way to go. He needs to regain your trust. Not an easy task if you don't let him try. It will hopefully be a new relationship with a matured H who knows what he wants. Let's pray he has figured this out.

Hmmmm...you are right, H does have a long way to go. I don't think there is going to be any heartfelt statement of intent to reconcile at the end of these sessions and I seriously worry and doubt H's ability to regain my trust. He hasn't managed to do that in almost 5 years since the second round with the OW. He just doesn't think there is anything he can do to regain my trust and doesn't see that it is his job to do it! I hope I'm wrong, but past experience isn't giving me good vibes about this, sadly. Still, I will pray with you that he has figured it out! x

Hey inpain, thought I would read your posts. I'm about to be delivered with the bd#2 talk and feel like I can't cope anymore.

The way you said after the last time that you took him back quickly and no work was done on your h's part to rebuild the r rings true to me too. My h didn't put in any work. Hence why I find myself back here again.

It's nice to read your strength. I hope I get there. And I pray that he has figured out his part and what he needs to do.

This feeling hurts like absolute hell.

Quote:

Originally Posted By: Vanilla

So can you be attracted to your WH?

V

I really don't know. I think it would take a LOT of work from him and I don't think he would be prepared to do the work. This has been proven from the last few years after the fallout from his EA. He wasn't prepared to put in the work to build up my trust. He thought I should be over it all and happy after a couple of months.

Don't worry. Your brain and heart are terrible predictors of what you might or might not feel in the future. Right now you feel betrayed, hurt, misunderstood, etc. It feels like in order for you to feel differently about him he'd have to see things your way, understand you completely, change in tons of ways to value things the exact same, apologize for all of his wrongness, etc.

I don't believe it. My belief is that people feel good about people that meet their basic needs. If things moved forward and he was consistently there you would start to feel secure. If he continued to make time to listen to your day and support you through your struggles you'd start to feel understood. Etc. Without any of this other stuff, just by sharing daily life and being there consistently the feelings might very well come back.

No one is ever understood. We just hold hands through the misunderstandings and that's what feels like love.

Hi Inpain, how are you doing?

Hi IP
Hope things are going good.

I'll look for your update in a new thread.

Irish (((hugs)))

Originally Posted By: Zues126

Don't worry. Your brain and heart are terrible predictors of what you might or might not feel in the future. Right now you feel betrayed, hurt, misunderstood, etc. It feels like in order for you to feel differently about him he'd have to see things your way, understand you completely, change in tons of ways to value things the exact same, apologize for all of his wrongness, etc.

I don't believe it. My belief is that people feel good about people that meet their basic needs. If things moved forward and he was consistently there you would start to feel secure. If he continued to make time to listen to your day and support you through your struggles you'd start to feel understood. Etc. Without any of this other stuff, just by sharing daily life and being there consistently the feelings might very well come back.

No one is ever understood. We just hold hands through the misunderstandings and that's what feels like love.

Thank you so much for this post Zues, it really made me see things could perhaps be OK if he decided he wanted to reconcile. I understand what you mean about feeling attracted to someone because they are doing loving things. Watering the grass I suppose!

Hi Rouky and Irish, thank you both for looking in on me! I've had an extremely busy week back at work after the Easter holidays - haven't had time to post!

We went on a family day out on the last day of the holidays which was good, it was like there was nothing wrong, but then at the end of it H still just walks off 'home' to his Dad's house.

It is all starting to just feel too weird for me. He comes round for hours on end when he isn't working (or doesn't want to go to drinking with his Dad or colleagues) and then just walks off. I'm starting to think I am letting him get too cozy in this alternate universe of his and he's cake eating. We have finished the exercises in the book now (on Tuesday) and nothing has been said since about anything to do with R. I feel irritated when he is here because he just sits in a chair for hours, looking at his phone or tablet and occasionally speaking to one of us, while I buzz around doing everything, then walks away. He has no responsibilities and is still not living in the real world. It has been over 5 months since he left now. I'm not sure what my next move should be because I don't want things to continue like this.

Please start a new thread

New thread http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2669204&#Post2669204