Hello all,
Have been reading for a couple of weeks and found alot of helpful advice but hoping for some more.
My current situation is that my wife has declared that she no longer loves me and is looking to get out of the relationship.
We have 2 kids, S7 and D3.
The short version is: wife had an EA with a work colleague in the first few months of 2015 that according to her almost went PA. She didn't and came home telling me she was scared of her feelings and realised there were some problems in our marriage. Maybe an error on my part is I let her back into the relationship to easily. I requested that she cut as much contact as possible (as the work together) and that if there is contact to be open and honest with me. This was ok for about 3 months then the contact slowly increased over the next 3 months to the point they were talking several times a week. when I questioned this the response I got was that it wasn't important and I was being petty. Hence these discussions sometimes turned into arguments, during which she regularly threatened to leave. I can admit I said things I regret in retaliation.
Then at the end of November '15 she dropped the I don't know if I love you any more and need some space. I made the usual mistakes of trying to be a good husband by trying to do all the nice things I could. We had one more argument after this.
Then a couple of days later she wasn't feeling well and I looked after her, she told me that a few days earlier she was ready to leave but now she wasn't sure as I seemed my old self. I had made a conscious choice by then to step back and not argue anything. She was still telling me she was struggling with her feelings for me.
A few days after that she had her christmas party, she called the kids before bed but as she talked to me I knew she was lying to me about something. Needless to say, I followed my gut and found her at her colleagues place. Her first words to me were that the affair was going to start tonight. She then said our marriage was over and had been for awhile. I suggested she come home and work on this but she stayed there for the night. The next morning she arrived back at the house as I was taking the kids to school and daycare. She stayed and we talked a bit when I got back. She said it as a mistake to stay with him but she no longer loved me and wanted out of this roller coaster we were on. Again I made the usual mistakes of telling her to think about the kids, that we were just at a stage of things turing around for us etc.
She wanted to stay in the spare room, I responded by saying that she could if we continue the counseling we were doing in order to repair the marriage, if not she needed to find somewhere else to stay. She went to friends. She came by every evening for the next week to see the kids even though she was telling people I was stopping her seeing them. She even had them at the friends for a sleep over one night. The week before Christmas, we talked after the kids were in bed about presents for the kids. We hadn't fought and had spent time together with the kids. She was supposed to come back to the house on the Wednesday for breakfast but didn't show, I had to call our friends and remind her that she told the kids she would have been there for breakfast. When she finally turned up, I asked her why she let them down (I knew she had gone out the night before) she said she had been to have a beer with the OM. Then proceeded to shout at me that I had no control over what she does or who she sees, I calmly said it does when it affects the kids. Sorry, rambling now.
W stayed in the house till boxing day when I went back to Ireland with the kids for the holidays, W did not come with. We had a good time but I knew if she stayed at home she would see the OM, which she did.
OK, will try and be shorter.
Currently she is still in the house sleeping in the spare room, I have stepped back and have moved on with my life for the past 3 weeks. I am going to the gym 3 times a week to get out of the house and have been following the steps of going 'dim'.
I guess the reason I am looking for advice is to help me deal with and hopefully understand what might be going on with her.
I have really looked inside myself and the problems I could have caused in the relationship and can admit to making mistakes. I feel I was under a fog of exhaustion ( we have been building a house) and couldn't see through it. I know it has taken the jolt of loosing my family to kick me out of it. I have learnt alot about myself and am finding the real me, the one I used to be and the one I am going to be. The much better me. I have seen my relationship with my kids improve dramatically, as I know I have been the stable one for them.
I have been a happier, calmer person and am looking forward to continuing this path I am on.
Now, my W has not changed her path, I am still to blame for everything that has gone wrong with this marriage. She is planning to move out and has found an apartment that will be available in March. She plans on staying at the house till then and being co-parents and room-mates.
So, I started implementing the 180's and Sandi's rules also about 3 weeks ago. The feedback I can give so far is:
- my wife has told 2 people over the past 3 weeks that she has seen big differences in me, the first person she told she said she didn't trust they could be for her also but she didn't say that the second time.
- she will initiate conversations, wants to talk about her day, ask me about my day, ask how my time at the gym was. I listen to her day, and give her short but polite replies to her questions about mine.
- she has seeked me out to tell me big news from work.
- i am sure she has been setting traps and has tried to induce a fight but I haven't taken any bait.
- I am acting like I am moving on and when I am home, I normally leave her to her space, she has asked to play some board games or watch tv after the kids are in bed. Sometimes I do and sometimes I don't.
- We have been doing things as a family of 4 and I have enjoyed playing with my kids each time. I let her talk, we can joke and laugh when we are all together and she regularly makes little slips about the future.
I do feel I need some help navigating this whirlwind of emotions she seems to be living on and will be very appreciative of it.
I have ordered the DR book, should be here tomorrow.
Thanks all
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Si
Sorry you are going thru this....
I am a rather newbie here and don't have the EA/PA thing (at least that I could uncover) but seems like you are doing what you should be with DB'ing.
What I have learned is the WAW/H is going to blame you for all that is wrong in the world and relationship...period. My STBX has gone to the extremes to remind me and having to live under the same roof is brutal.
There are things you are following that are working so keep up the good work and stay the course. I wish I had this support and guidance when my sitch started so I would listen to those who have been thru the muck and its great advice.
Think of whether what she is doing respects or disrespects you. Do not accept disrespect. Her out of the master bedroom. perfect. You doing a 180 and GAL, the same. Move on as if you are single and she is just your roommate. It is the best thing you can do in this situation. Go back to Sandi's rules. Don't let her back into your life until she knows beyond a doubt she will do what it takes to fix what is broken in her. In the meantime, you keep working on you.
Hi Si-07, welcome to the community. I hope you'll read those links Cadet sent you b/c they are informative for a newcomer.
I will tell you upfront that I am a former WW and have stayed with the board several years b/c my own M was saved with the help I received.
I hope you will post often.
I am very sorry you are here. These people on the board know their stuff. I can also recommend the DB coaching sessions, mine have been great. It is the like the forums, but much more personal. Stick to the 180s and the detaching, it is so darn hard. Be your best with her, and be your worst when you need to when you are alone or here.
Hello Si_07,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
It sounds like you have really caught on and are seeing some changes in her behavior. Be cautious! She could be temperature checking you and you are wise not to take the bait. She could also be eating cake.
Thank you mbebos for the vote of confidence regarding the DB Coaching. I'm so happy to hear that the coaching has been helpful!
Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Thank you all for your answers and support so far. Much appreciated.
Sandi, I have read your story several times and I guess you were one of the people I looked forward to hearing from the most. I have read most of the links already before posting. I guess I look to you for that side of the fence. I know that every individual is different but your position and experience is closer than my own.
Cristy, I am being cautious and i do believe at the moment she is cake eating. She has the comforts of being at home and being able to kiss the kids goodnight every night without doing anything for the relationship.
I will add some other information, currently her father health has been declining and my W had a cancer scare but was clean. I have felt that some of this could be a MLC also.
The main reason I had for posting is to find the support in dealing with the fluctuations of emotions she seems to be living on. For example, the other day she got home from work and almost bypassed the kids to come tell me about some 'bombshell' news with this huge smile on her face. After telling me she then left to go have a meeting for this apartment she wants. After the kids were in bed, the mood was quiet as I left for the gym. Once I was back, she asked if I had a good workout and told me she got the place for March. I only answered ok and said goodnight.
I do feel she is testing me regularly and going to the gym 3 times a week and biking to work has been my life saver. I have also given myself a goal of running a half marathon in April.
I am working hard at re-finding my real self, I feel so much better in myself and my family and friends have seen it too. I will continue the path I have set myself on for me and my kids.
I am also still working on the balance of going dim around the kids.
I did set a boundary that if she lived in the house that all communication with the OM stops outside of her work, I had to re-state that a week later but haven't mentioned it again. Our phones are linked as she uses my ID and we see each other's call history. She has deleted his number going back a month, but doesn't do this for any other numbers. I have told her how to fix this but she has still not done this. She also told me she was going to give me her rings back but still hasn't, that was 3 weeks ago. She has 'spitballed' many ideas for sharing custody of the kids when she moves out but doesn't like any of her own suggestions. She wants to be able to call them every night when I have them but I have said no to that as I didn't want my schedule dictated by her, she wants to meet and have dinner all together once a week at the house or her apartment. Again I said no to this and explained that as she is basically wanting to leave me for someone else why would I want to be in her apartment, or even to see her when I don't have to.
She asked last week what I have learnt about myself this past few weeks and I explained a little of how much a fog I was under and the shock of loosing my family jolted me out of it and forced me to look hard and deep at myself. I did tell her that I needed space from her as the trust she broke twice was very damaging to our marriage. I didn't ask her to come back or to think about us, I just said I had forgiven myself, I can't change the past and am moving forward with my life and feeling great about it.
She had mentioned that although she has seen differences in me, especially with the kids (she told a friend I was like super Dad), she doesn't trust it can be with her also. I have not indicated or said anything to her that I'm doing anything for her. My path is for me and for my kids, she is on her own path but I still feel she is in the angry, resentful and blaming stage. I am just refusing to be dragged down with her.
Cristy, you mentioned I had seen changes in her behavior and to be cautious, which I am. Can I ask you what you mean by those changes I see? As I have read we ignore pretty much all she says and 50% of what she does. Are the things I see just someone being civil or is there the potential for her to still be conflicted within herself. I know patience is the key and I'm not going to push her or ask her about anything.
She has mentioned she feels she needs professional help, something I would agree on, but she hasn't taken that step yet. I don't pursue or try and suggest anything, she is still leaning on the comforts of being at home, but I have stopped cleaning her mess, and have tried to remove the easy options for her that I would normally take care of.
I have read a lot of articles, journals, stories here and have learnt a lot in a short period of time. I am pretty sure she has not done any of this and maybe Sandi you could answer this best, if there is still conflict, and I think from reading yours and other stories there is, is this emotional mindset scared to find out about themselves and potentially have to face their own mistakes? I know she will have to do this in her own time and I will not try and do anything about that.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
I received DR yesterday and began reading. Even though I'm just starting there is so much in there in I know my W should read but I will not show it to her yet. I know she is still not in the position to think rationally and especially if something came from me.
Other things she has said about why she sees no future is that she has been suffocating and can't breathe. She wants her independence and to stand on her own two feet. I have been wanting there to do this for years but until now has always leaned on me to do the finances, the phone calls, etc. when I have asked for her help it's been too difficult, not enough time etc. She tells me she never goes out, that I stop her going out. I ask her what she has organised, does she want to to a course, she talked about a yoga class but never looks into it. Am I supposed to organize her life for her?
I agree detaching is hard, but for me it has been therapeutic as I don't have this weight on me to look after her the way she has always wanted. It has been interesting watching her try and put on her 'big girl pants', this is a girl that has filled our car with fuel 4 times in over 2 years ( we only have one). The difficult bit for me is that these are all things I have wanted her to do within the relationship and now she feels she can only get this by taking the family apart.
in one of her spew sessions, she told me I have no control over who she sees or what she does. For the last month I haven't asked but when I didn't say where I was going she said I was leaving her stranded and being thoughtless by only saying I was going out at the last minute. (I go to the gym after the kids are in bed) Is this double standards normal during these times?
Now she wants to give me all sorts of information about where and who see goes to see but she has only gone out once in the last month. I have wondered if the OM is still in the picture as I thought she would go out more. Or she is actually sticking to the boundary I put in place, but then that doesn't seem to find the common behavior.
I do leave her to her own thoughts by giving her space often, as much as I would like to put my arms around her and say we will work it out, I don't want to for me. I can admit my mistakes that put our marriage into trouble and learn from them but to help me detach I think about the betrayal and the neglect affairs have on a family. I don't think of the damage to me anymore, I focus on how she has neglected the kids. I have also noticed a shift in the kids, they come to me more than they used to. I know this is down to me being stable and consistent for them over these past 2 months in particular. We were all out for a walk as a 4 this past weekend and if I was too far ahead or round a corner, my daughter would run after me calling even though my W was right with her. So I would wait or come back and pick her up. My W was very quiet in these times and maybe she is seeing the shift also.
Continue being the best dad you can be and do not tolerate disrespect. Your response to a spouse that disrespects your marriage is what you've been doing. Detach, move on. You don't owe her any information about your comings and goings unless she wants to be part of your family "team". You plan your comings and goings with your team and no one else. If she wants to be part of that team, that's great, but there are rules to live by. Rule #1, no disrespecting the marriage or each other. If she doesn't want to be part of that team, that's fine too, you can't force her, but then she must learn what that will be like. She can't be a cake eater. She can't have her husband and family and her freedom to be a single woman too. Nope. Sorry. That's not an option to be part of your team.
You can't nice them back. You're worth more than that. Demand to be treated like you have worth. Accept nothing less. Nobody ever respects a doormat. If you try to nice her back it'll only cause her to lose respect for you and withdraw further from you. You're the leader of your family. Accept that role and be the leader.
Si_07,
Hang in there. Sounds like you are getting to a better place for you and your family.
I don't have the EA/PA thing (I don't think), though a lot of what you are dealing with sounds very familiar. Its hard. I guess that's why the DR book recommends looking for the small changes from others as encouragement. That includes seeing that you are building a better relationship with your kids, which is super important. You can't change your W, but you can be a better person for yourself and your kids.
Exercising is a great stress reliever - its part of my salvation as well. You can also take a little joy in knowing that by getting in better shape you're giving her more to miss ;-) Though most importantly you're back to taking care of yourself, so you are able to act on your core values of helping the ones you love.
Stay strong!
This was ok for about 3 months then the contact slowly increased over the next 3 months to the point they were talking several times a week. when I questioned this the response I got was that it wasn't important and I was being petty
It can be mind blowing how a WW can twist and justify an A. I bet if it had been you with some OW, she would not have it being petty.
A few days after that she had her christmas party, she called the kids before bed but as she talked to me I knew she was lying to me about something. Needless to say, I followed my gut and found her at her colleagues place. Her first words to me were that the affair was going to start tonight. She then said our marriage was over and had been for awhile. I suggested she come home and work on this but she stayed there for the night. The next morning she arrived back at the house as I was taking the kids to school and daycare. She stayed and we talked a bit when I got back. She said it as a mistake to stay with him but she no longer loved me and wanted out of this roller coaster we were on. Again I made the usual mistakes of telling her to think about the kids, that we were just at a stage of things turing around for us etc.
So, she spent the night with the OM, and went home the next morning as if nothing had happened? Maybe it's b/c I am just getting your side of the story, but it sounds as if you were the one that was pleading for her to stay, even though she had just committed adultery. Did she ask if she could say, or use her threat of leaving as her leverage? Has she ever done anything like this before now? Did she have a lot of sexual partners before getting M?
The week before Christmas, we talked after the kids were in bed about presents for the kids. We hadn't fought and had spent time together with the kids. She was supposed to come back to the house on the Wednesday for breakfast but didn't show, I had to call our friends and remind her that she told the kids she would have been there for breakfast. When she finally turned up, I asked her why she let them down (I knew she had gone out the night before) she said she had been to have a beer with the OM. Then proceeded to shout at me that I had no control over what she does or who she sees, I calmly said it does when it affects the kids. Sorry, rambling now.
No problem rambling, but wow, have you ever seen her have similar behavior?
Sandi, I have read your story several times and I guess you were one of the people I looked forward to hearing from the most. I have read most of the links already before posting. I guess I look to you for that side of the fence. I know that every individual is different but your position and experience is closer than my own.
Oh my, I don't what to say.....except I will try my best to give you the viewpoint of most WW's.
I will add some other information, currently her father health has been declining and my W had a cancer scare but was clean. I have felt that some of this could be a MLC also.
Did this begin before things between her and OM began getting thicker?
What are the ages of you and your W?
Stay with us and we will try our best to help.
Cristy, you mentioned I had seen changes in her behavior and to be cautious, which I am. Can I ask you what you mean by those changes I see? As I have read we ignore pretty much all she says and 50% of what she does. Are the things I see just someone being civil or is there the potential for her to still be conflicted within herself. I know patience is the key and I'm not going to push her or ask her about anything.
Hello Si_07,
I'm glad your DR book has arrived and you are reading it. Please pay attention to Cadet's message regarding not sharing it with your wife. These are your tools right now.
You are exactly right to not believe any of what she says and only 1/2 of what she does. Her changes could be that she is having inner conflict, temperature checking you, cake eating, or any number of things. Don't get sucked into mind reading on this.
You are at a very fragile point in this relationship and it would be extremely helpful to know what your next move should be. Please call me to discuss our program at 303-444-7004.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Hi Cristy, I understand that it is fragile but I will find it difficult to call as she is still in the house and I have a time difference with you as I am in Europe.
Hi Si_07,
We have many, many clients that call from all over the world. Look for an international calling card with a reduced rate that would work for you. Our DB Coaches have a variety of time slots available to accommodate all sorts of schedules. Geography isn't a hurdle when it comes to being able to get the guidance you need from a DB Coach.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Thank you Cristy, I did try to call but you were out at the time. It's more that my W is in the house most nights. One of her complaints about me is that I 'stop' her going out but in the last month she has only gone out once.
As I have been reading DR, (I have just finished chapter 5) the questions I have are regarding the possible improvements that can be seen. In the past week I have spent little time with her outside of our children and kept any conversations short but polite. She is regularly curious about my day, where I go, if I had a good time when I have gone out. When I read about the LRT, it seems to fit what is written as the second possibility of things that could happen. I'm certainly not going to get ahead of myself and think things are getting better per say but I know she has been asking friends about 'my changes'. I even had one of her best friends call me by 'accident' (something she has never done), and she asked how I was. I kept it short and just said I had looked into myself and was working on me.
Like I said before, I am happy with the path I'm on and will continue on it. I am not going to try and read her mind as it seems to be everywhere and nowhere at the same time.
I have been thinking of something the past few days and maybe here is the best place to garner opinion. Part of what she seems to want is independence, she feels she is too tied to me (something that is fine when it suits her). With our house I have been the one to pay all the bills and take care of 95% of the paperwork especially as we built it. She has one more month here before this apartment is available. I had Been considering suggesting to her that she takes care of all the house stuff for this next month and to say I am happy she is looking to stand on her own two feet. To give her that opportunity that till now she has never wanted to do. Any thoughts?
Sandi, thank you for your response, I will answer your questions soon.
So little update. Was sons birthday yesterday, we all went out for supper. I concentrated on my kids in conversation and rarely looked towards W. She tried initiated conversations but I kept answers light and short.
After getting home and kids in bed, left W and went to room to read more of DR. Didn't say anything to W, heard her cleaning one of the floors then she was in her room on her phone. She has Ben watching 'Ted' videos. Just after 10.30 pm she texted me from downstairs about one of the videos she watched. Was about schools and made her think of S7. I answered ok, and she then texted back to suggest I watch it. I made no more replies.
Are these little reach outs normal? I have gone darker with her this past week and she has made several moves to initiate conversation or talk about things with me over the week.
Made a bit of a slip up today, she had some angry spewing that I got sucked into a little. Didn't get angry myself but said a couple of things when I should have kept my mouth shut. Was the one to walk away and said we could talk again after her anger has settled.
Feel like we have really mis-understood each other particularly over the last year or so. When I bought her a piano for her birthday in Oct, said it was my commitment to building a better life. Needed her commitment to remove the other person from our lives. She answered by saying she made a commitment to me but when I ask what that was, she will not answer. She says she did it and that I should have seen it and if I didn't she will not tell me.
Felt like a step back today for sure.
Got sucked into her spewing yesterday, lost strength in myself. This is so hard.
Are these little reach outs normal? I have gone darker with her this past week and she has made several moves to initiate conversation or talk about things with me over the week.
Yes, it is very "normal" for the WW to initiate conversation, etc. It is a way of keeping one foot in the M and one foot out. Also, the WW will justify getting a D or having an A by telling herself she tried putting effort into the MR, but her H wouldn't even talk to her if she didn't initiate it. The WW is a master at twisting & turning things around, but deep down, she knows what she is doing is wrong.
Made a bit of a slip up today, she had some angry spewing that I got sucked into a little. Didn't get angry myself but said a couple of things when I should have kept my mouth shut. Was the one to walk away and said we could talk again after her anger has settled.
It's easy to get pulled into those spews. It sounds as if you did the best you could under the circumstances.
When I bought her a piano for her birthday in Oct, said it was my commitment to building a better life. Needed her commitment to remove the other person from our lives. She answered by saying she made a commitment to me but when I ask what that was, she will not answer. She says she did it and that I should have seen it and if I didn't she will not tell me.
Yeah, women do that sort of thing, and I don't know how to explain it. It falls into that category where a woman expects the man to know what she wants without her telling him. It is an unrealistic expectation. What she is doing is like playing a game of hide and seek. In her mind she thinks shomegas made some sort of commitment to you........but she's going to hide it by keeping it a secret. She thinks it's your job to find it.
I have actually seen women do this very thing. I will tell you that it is an act of a wayward
and immature mindset.
Thank you Sandi, any further advice as to handle my next 4 weeks in the house together? She is moving to an apartment at the beginning of March.
I will answer your questions when I get on the computer.
I'm not scared or afraid of her moving out, in some sense I feel she needs it to, to see how much she has leaned on me over the years.
She wants this independence and freedom.
I'm not saying I haven't made my own mistakes within this relationship, I have many regrets and hurt that has not been resolved but I do believe if we could get through this with the help of a guide, our family could be wonderful.
She was telling me yesterday that the first house we bought together, she only did it to make me happy, again with our choice to build our house after our move, that again she only did it to make me happy. As has been written, every negative thought about our marriage, which has been stressful in many occasions, is being used as her reasons for leaving.
I feel like we have really mis-communicated and mis-understood each other on several occasions but I know when she expressed attraction for this work colleague, I asked for as little contact as possible. That was the commitment I needed from her and didn't get it. She has regularly said he was not the problem, which I could understand the first time round, that it was a symptom of our problems. However I find it hard to agree with that a second time round and when she said she would take him out of the picture. It just didn't last very long and I can admit that I maybe didn't handle it the best but I had thought my feelings would be recognized.
I don't know, I don't feel she will be one to admit to any mistakes and I feel like my kids will suffer because of it.
I know patience and time is the key and I'm am using this time to improve myself and learn from my mistakes. Just wish we could do it together.
She also said yesterday that she sees some pros to us and me but not enough. She told me I can be so loving. I just don't know how much is mind games or the truth.
So W signed her paperwork to move to an apartment end of the month. Saw her when she came back as I was heading out and she didn't look so good.
When I came back she was in her room with the door closed, it stayed closed for the whole night so she didn't hear our son or daughter when they woke at different times in the night. Our daughter spent half the night in my bed as she has done several nights lately.
Hi SI 07. Sorry you are here. I just caught up on your sitch. My W just moved out 2 weeks ago and the day was hard. Some days are better than others and none of it is going to be really easy.
What I am finding tho is that, like you, I have a good idea of the path I want to follow. With W out of the house you have more time to work on your path. Keep the focus on you and your kids. To me there is little more fulfilling than time with my kids.
I would expect S to reach out now and then to see what you are doing especially if there is no communication other than kids. It sounds like you are handling these texts and other contacts well
My question for you is, you have said you understand your part in the breakdown of M, so do you know why the things you did or didn't do happened? Ex. Myself I was distant and in front of the computer. I changed that right away and asked myself why I did it in the first place. Te answer to that was role model. My father would come home from work and watch tv. Rarely go out or do anything but relax. I saw that as how a father acts. Now I am working to change that in myself.
Keep up the good work. Keep posting. There is lots of great advice here!
Hi Tyler12, for me there are a combination of things. I know I have a part in what has happened. We had been building a house in a foreign country to us both and we both got exhausted and were not enjoying enough things outside of this as a family. This contributed to my W be attracted to a work colleague who had no responsibilities. When she told me near the beginning of the year last year, I made it to easy for her to come back into the relationship but I had asked for her to cut the contact with this colleague. As it built back up, we got into frequent arguments between Sept and Nov.
I was still hurting and not handling the situation, I had made a conscious effort to be more with the family over the past year but only tried to put them all first. I stopped caring about myself and got to focused on getting my W to cut the contact. Something she admitted that she hadn't been strong enough in doing. The hard part for me is that other than the arguments we were still doing many things together as a family, still being intimate with each other, we had just started counseling to help us communicate better as we both were not listening to each other well enough.
At times I'm not sure what else I could have done, except not getting caught up in the arguments as we both said things that are regrettable. However, my W has re-written a number of things in our relationship and made me into something I'm not. I have felt many times my feelings on things are never really considered and when she decides to not do something it has generally been because I have stopped her. She tells me I stop her going out and I can never be happy when she comes home, my issue at times was that she would be considerably later than she would say or I would not be able to reach her as she would go out to escape the family. However, if I was ever running late or she didn't know where I was, she would always call me asking where I am was and when I would be back.
There are probably times I should have stepped back and thought things through better but I also know that in the past year i have never felt as exhausted. I have feelings that my W would like an element of the single life back again, where as I consider myself a family man 24/7. I know I had lost myself and at times become distant and needing quiet within the last year in particular. Maybe it took this shock to my system to make me realize, I guess I just wish we had communicated better and worked on better comprimises to get what we both needed within this family and relationship.
I did have one session with Chuck yesterday and found it helpful especially after getting sucked into things on Sunday. He did encourage me that I am ahead of the curve so far and he feels I have challenged her thoughts and the core beliefs that she has currently. It gave me confidence that the path I am walking is a good one and to keep on it and stay patient. I understand that she has trust issues, (not like I don't have them either). I also take some comfort from Sandi in that I shouldn't fear her leaving, I do feel she needs to see the reality of separation and not seeing the kids every day.
My parents split when I was 7 and I know what this life will be, I can be more mentally prepared for this than my W I feel. But who knows what the future will hold.
Glad to hear you felt uplifted after your talk with Chuck.
Thank you Sandi, any further advice as to handle my next 4 weeks in the house together? She is moving to an apartment at the beginning of March.
If you can picture her being like a boarder who is staying in your home, it may help you know how to interact with her. If she were a boarder, you would probably speak to her and show a certain level of business-style friendliness. If she asked questions, you would gage how personal or private they might be, and then decide how to answer. If she was getting too personal, you'd politely change the subject to something more general. You would not try to sneak in a hug or kiss. You would not snuggle with her. You would not stand in the doorway of her bedroom to talk, much less go inside her bedroom and stand around. If she ate meals with your family, you'd keep things as light as possible at the table. After dinner, you would be involved in your life and she'd be free to do whatever she chose to do, without you questioning her. You would not follow her around the house to see what she was going to do. You would not ask her if you could go out, nor feel it necessary to fill her in on the details of you GAL.
You keep things as civil-friendly as you can, and try not to let it get personal. You stay as detached as possible. Really engage a lot in GAL the next four weeks. Be gone when she's home as much as possible.
Thanks Sandi, that is what I'm doing especially once the kids are in bed. It does feel like she wants to play happy families without doing anything for the family. I go to the gym 3 nights a week and the others I just do my own thing. The weekends are harder due to the kids. I don't initiate much conversation other than the kids. She always wants to know where I go but she knows I go to the gym. Going out tomorrow with friends and she had several questions since one of them talked to me about in front of her. Just said I would be out with friends, she asked where and I just said that bit hadn't been decided yet. And left it at that. However she always wishes me a good workout, asked me if I had a good one if she is around when I get back. I do keep my answers short but polite.
I have removed any kind of affection for several weeks and moved the remaining clothes of hers out of the main bedroom at the weekend. We only have the one car so we have had to create a kind of schedule unfortunately.
Finally got round to answering some of your questions Sandi.
So, she spent the night with the OM, and went home the next morning as if nothing had happened? Maybe it's b/c I am just getting your side of the story, but it sounds as if you were the one that was pleading for her to stay, even though she had just committed adultery. Did she ask if she could say, or use her threat of leaving as her leverage? Has she ever done anything like this before now? Did she have a lot of sexual partners before getting M?
She came home just before I took the kids to school and daycare, I asked if she was planning to stay and if she was going to talk. She was still there when I got back and only said it was a mistake to see him and stay there but she was done with me. The daycare called and said our daughter was sick, we went to pick her up and I put her in the MBR bed to sleep. My W wanted to lie next to her and rest also but I said no to that, if she wanted to rest she could use the spare bed. She asked to stay in the house and move into the spare room. I said that was possible if she was willing to go back to counseling and work on repairing our marriage. I said if not, then I felt she needed to stay somewhere else for the time being. She evetually went to friends that afternoon.#
She has not done anything like this in our relationship but before me during university, she had a period of depression where she cheated on a boyfriend at the time. She was dealing with alot of things at that time but for me I see some similarities. She has told me, that she has used sex as a way of hurting herself.
No problem rambling, but wow, have you ever seen her have similar behavior?
Not to this extent, when she has gone out with friends, she does go out to escape and until the last year has never had a cell phone. I only ever wanted to have an idea when she would be home and where she might be if I needed to get hold of her in case something happened with the kids. It has been a bone of contention for a number of years. She wants to be able to go where she wants when she wants and I am supposed to just be happy when she turns up home again. Maybe I have the wrong thoughts on this, but she always wants to know where I am going, when I'm going to be home and if i'm running late, will always call to see where I am no matter the time of day.
Did this begin before things between her and OM began getting thicker?
It has been an ongoing thing this past year, but there had been an increase in contact with the OM as her father had more tests and she required them.
What are the ages of you and your W?
Me and W are 37
Hello Si_07,
I'm happy to hear that your time with Chuck, your DB Coach, was time well spent.
Having that validation of being ahead of the curve must feel good. Give yourself a pat on the back! Confidence and patience are key, but you already know that.
Please let me know when you would like to speak with Chuck again.
Cristy
Thank you Cristy, yes it was good to hear from someone outside of this that I am on a good path. At times I don't feel she is as strong as she wants to make out on her decisions, at times I have almost felt she has been more resigned about them.
I have done a lot of reading and at times have been humbled by want I have read. I know from reading Sandi's story that something has to humble her if she is going to look at herself. She did say she plans on getting professional help and I do feel she needs time to figure out if the family life is really what she wants.
The hardest part I have found is trying to stop working out what is going on in her mind. Trying to read her actions etc.
So last night I was out with some friends. Had a good time. W texted me to say that son was sleeping on the couch and daughter was with her. When I got back, her door was closed so checked on son then went out to the gym. Again after getting back her door was still closed, took son up to his bed and spent some time reading. Heard W up with daughter around 1am, daughter had a fever. At 2am, daughter wanted me and came upstairs to my bed and stayed with me. Something I would think my W would not have expected.
Again this morning, W wanted to know about my evening, and where I went the second time. I just replied I had a good evening and went out to do a couple of things.
Since she signed for this apartment, she has closed the door to her room every night, has therefore not heard the kids when they have woken up the last few nights. Considering a few weeks ago she would run up the stairs to beat me to checking on the kids, I find this a little puzzling. Maybe reality of moving is starting to sink in.
There has been a shift with the kids in that they do seem to come to me more than her, certainly more than they used to. She is always curious as to what I am doing and how I am getting on at the gym.
One of her complaints about me is that I stopped her going out (I haven't and have also asked friends to take her out over the past number of months), however she has not been one to organize anything for herself in this regard. I find it strange now that she has only gone out once I the past 5 weeks.
I have been enjoying myself and happy with the progress I have done on myself so far, I will continue down my path and if the by-product of this is saving my family then all the better. I am still learning which small positive steps I can notice, hence why I will post often here to get more of the great feedback I have had so far.
Up and down kind of day today. Was nearly going to talk about the past tonight but have caught myself in time.
Sandi, you have mentioned that we should not fear a W moving out, and I don't as she has leaned and still leans on me for many things. Can you give me more insight into why you believe that?
I have moved countries and cultures twice in the last 10 years but this I the hardest thing I've had to deal with...
That's what everybody says. I think the death of a child would be the closest level of pain. But even that, it happens and is over and you have to move past it at some point. Some of our situations drag on a year or more and it is like dealing with death over and over again every day.
I think it's the anger that is the hardest for me right now. Since she wants to start splitting everything now, the confronting stance, the almost snarl if you dare propose something different.
She is all sweet one minute and talking nicely, then I make one suggestion for her to look after something and we are back to cold hostility. We have a house together that we had just built, it is not in a position to sell yet or we make a huge loss. She hasn't wanted to help with the paperwork until now but of course says she wanted to be part of it all along. I have suggested she take care of it this last month but no, she only wants to work together.
It is just unbelievable (and I know there are many here that see it to believe it) how someone can be so different, so quickly.
It is just unbelievable (and I know there are many here that see it to believe it) how someone can be so different, so quickly.
Living together in that environment is hard...I am there with you and its toxic at times.
And the hammer that has dropped and changed your world is disheartening and I feel your pain and anger. How about resentment too?
I feel pain, anger , resentment, sadness and longing for the old days but we all have to keep the act up and move on.
Hope you can get thru this rough patch.
I feel just like you rich4j, it is so hard to live around. I am trying to keep calm and let it wash, doing a better job today than others. In some ways I look forward to some peace in the house when she moves out next month. She keeps saying I'm the one living in the past but will bring up any argument we had over the years.
She keeps saying I'm the one living in the past but will bring up any argument we had over the years.
As some have said here, the anger will continue to spew from old info and I get this all the time. I remember when.....
It will be lonely, weird, quiet when she leaves....but remember it will be peaceful. And use the time for you...easier said than done I know.
Keep the faith and hope your sitch changes for the best.
Oh I am, I have worked hard on myself. I know I'm in a better place but still doesn't make it easy to live with. I'm learning day by day to walk away as best I can and leave herself to her anger.
It's hard to see any change happening right now, I feel like I'm watching a train wreck in slow motion from the sidelines.
Just saw a scared little girl in my W tonight. I didn't try and fix her, only she can do that. I'm sure it won't change anything in the near future but for the first time in awhile she broke down in front of me. Not completely and I won't take it even as a first step.
I left her by saying thank you for waking me up.
Something she said last night is that she had spent many nights crying and making herself sick at night. She says she feels remorse even if she hasn't shown me. I know to not necessarily believe everything she says but she has closed her door several times since she signed her paperwork for the apartment.
I know this is a long process and she still has a rocky path ahead of her, in a way it did give me a sense of letting go a bit more.
I have this from an email newsletter series I have been receiving:
Last time you heard Kurt’s story about how he overcame his wife’s affair and managed to get his marriage back over the course of a year.
If you haven’t read it yet, I highly recommend you go back and do that right now.
Today, we’re going to be looking at one thing in particular that Kurt did very well during his marriage’s recovery that you can apply to your marriage starting today.
What did he do?
He anticipated his wife’s forgiveness revolt.
WHAT IS FORGIVENESS REVOLT?
It’s exactly what it sounds like…
It’s when her response to feelings of forgiveness is to push away.
Basically, forgiveness revolt is what happens when your wife realizes that she LIKES the changes that you’re making, but some part of her is still resistant to giving the marriage another chance.
WHAT CAUSES FORGIVENESS REVOLT?
In Kurt’s story, you noticed that he said his wife felt “condemned” by his forgiveness.
She’d had an affair, and instead of pushing her away, he said, “It’s okay; I still forgive you and love you and want you.”
This threw a HUGE wrench in her plans.
She had planned on him wanting to leave the marriage, and when he didn’t, her reaction was to try and push him away even harder.
Why?
Because she’d rather fight you and push you away than question her own decision to leave.
Especially if your wife has had an affair, you should expect to see some serious forgiveness revolt. The whole reason she told herself it was okay to cheat was because in her mind, the marriage was already over anyways… When you show her that no, the marriage is still alive, she will push away.
Note: This lesson is taken directly from Chapter 15 of Manly Marriage Revival. But, I believe it’s a concept that EVERY husband needs to know about, even if you haven’t bought the course.
HOW TO HANDLE FORGIVENESS REVOLT
Again, Kurt is an excellent example of how you should handle forgiveness revolt.
It starts by recognizing your wife's motivation:
What your wife WANTS you to do is get frustrated.
She wants you to get weak.
She wants you to give her any reason to stick with her decision to leave.
So, you need to ignore the revolt. Don’t let it affect you.
Don’t give her what she wants, which is for you to start pushing away from the marriage.
Instead, keep doing what you’re doing. Stand strong. Keep showing her the type of husband you know she wants to be with.
Soon enough, this phase will pass and she’ll let herself become intrigued with the changes you’re making, just like we talked about a few emails ago.
I don't agree with all of it, I am working on myself as a better man as opposed to a better husband but the anger and hostility I seem to be facing seems a bit like this story.
She suggested and asked if I wanted to join her to watch a movie tonight....
So confusing, yesterday she was hostile, then emotional and seemingly a scared little girl.
Any thoughts, advice anyone. It is something we would have done many times snuggled on the couch.
So more lies this morning, has gone to see OM. My kids have been sick this weekend and she is off to see him. Trying to be there for my kids but so hard to hear my daughter asking for her mommy...
After she came back yesterday we were all out at a parade meeting up with some friends, after which they came back to our home where I had made a gulash soup for everybody. Part of my 180 is to invite friends over more and cook more, try new recipes etc.
As the conversation was going on around the table my W looked for me and at me 7 times in about 5 mins. Even one of our friends who knows the situation noticed this.
Even later on, she was talking to the kids but actively looking for me and to engage my eye contact with me.
After the kids were in bed, I used the time to catch up with friends, then headed out late to watch some of the Super Bowl, only saying goodnight to her as I left.
This morning the first thing she said to me was to ask if I enjoyed the Super Bowl as she assumed that is where I went, I indicated that I was elsewhere instead. Don't know if that's the right approach but she questions my every move about where I am going.
I don't agree with all of it either. For example:
She’d had an affair, and instead of pushing her away, he said, “It’s okay; I still forgive you and love you and want you.”
To a wayward wife, this represents weakness. It also shows her that she can treat him as though he was not valuable, yet he would still be there loving and forgiving her. That does not work with a WW.
Neither do I agree with this:
What your wife WANTS you to do is get frustrated.
She wants you to get weak.
She wants you to give her any reason to stick with her decision to leave.
So, you need to ignore the revolt. Don’t let it affect you.
Don’t give her what she wants, which is for you to start pushing away from the marriage.
What the writer of that newsletter seems to be missing is that a WW simply doesn't care. She's not going to give her H enough thought to want anything from him except her freedom.
Some things the H does need to ignore, but it upsets me for writers to imply that a man says it is okay for his W to have an A and that he will ignore her bad behavior and just continue loving and forgiving her........even when she doesn't want it.
How is a man suppose to have self-respect when he just rolls over and says, "It's okay, honey, I'll keep loving you".
I agree with what you are saying Sandi, thank you for your feedback. Would you also have any feedback to the varying actions I have been experiencing from her this past weekend?
I guess I'm trying to figure out how much of these actions are tests or things to try and provoke reactions from me??
She also wants to know where I'm going, what I am doing, how I am getting on with my training for the half marathon I have signed up for. I feel she is constantly asking about me and will talk about her day etc even when I don't ask.
For someone that has stated that she is scared of me, feels empty towards me, I find these constant engages somewhat against the grain. I know when I spoke to Chuck, he believes that I have been challenging her core beliefs of her current decision to leave. To watch out for her tests and challenges.
Well, it's hard to know what was up with her. My guess is that she was wondering what was up with you.
. In the past, would she search for eye contact with you? And if so, would she do this to relay some silent message? If that's not it, then I'd say she is curious about what you are doing.......which is a good thing.
Eye contact was always something we had especially when things have been good in our lives, when she looks at me its like she always looked at me. I see the 'old' her if you know what I mean. I don't feel there was ever some silent message behind it, she has always said in the past that my eyes were a great feature about me.
I feel that curiosity is huge with her with what I'm doing. Like I said she is always questioning me and has, I feel, seeked me out on several occasions to talk to, to ask to spend time together. One thing she has complained about is that I controlled the finances, which before was primarily because she didn't want to. Now she says she wants to know, so I suggested she take care of the house bills etc for this last month she is here. She doesn't want to do it by herself, she wants to work together as a 'team'. I expresses that there is no team now, she wants to leave the team, something she got a little annoyed about.
Another question I would have, how much fear does a W in this situation have with herself that is projected onto her spouse? I guess if she has noticed consistent 'changes', and I understand it still takes time, how much can they not trust themselves?
Two things really resonated recently in this thread, and I hope I'm not derailing anything by sharing my thoughts and situation...
My WAW has not had an affair, physical or emotional, to my knowledge, so I get that's quite different. I understand Sandi's disagreement with the Frustration Revolt article as I too hope I would not just roll over in the face of an affair, and Si_07 it reads like you're making the best of a bad situation (i.e. not rolling over), and my heart goes out to you...
What did resonate about that article is that my WAW has acknowledged my changes over last few months, and also said that it made her angry in that why couldn't I have changed sooner. We've also had a couple of arguments recently, and she's quick to point out "See that's why we're not compatible..." and admitting that yes her tone is perhaps harsher because she's not interested in our R. The article resonates because I've felt those recent arguments went better than over last couple of years (no yelling; no one walking out; effort to actually get to completion though not necessarily agreement, i.e. a healthy R argument), and I'm seeing both the pain from the past, which is helping me focus on what to work on in myself, AND I'm seeing what appears to be conflict in her relative to liking the changed me BUT actively trying to shut those feelings down because they conflict where her hypothesis that I'm worth walking away from...
Maybe I'm just supersensitive these days, but it feels like whenever our arguments are going better she feels compelled to throw out "so that's what's broken in our R" and/or say something like "and that's how what you did ruined it for the kids" to almost provoke anger from me... Probably just shows I need to detach more, but its so hard when it feels like things are getting somewhat better (and I start to re-attach), and then get pushed back...
I see that it aligns with the WAS behavior and the mantra here of believe nothing she says and 50% of what she does. Maybe its the wording of that article echoing WAS that's sounding right to me, and trying to see if there's a better strategy on how to handle these "active push backs" as I continue to challenge her belief I'm some bad person...
The other point I wanted to share was part of Si_07 mention of cooking and inviting friends over as part of 180. I too have been doing more housework, socializing, etc. as part of my GAL, and as part of one of these recent arguments with my W she expressed annoyance over my doing more with one of these household chores as she felt she had built an area of expertise there (I heard as comfortable space of her own) and somewhat resented my intruding into that space. She did NOT want me to stop doing those chores - part of my past bad behavior of "well if you don't like how I do it, do it all your self" :-( - so I'm making sure for both as part of my personal improvement and as part of showing her I'm committed to these changes to keep doing it.
Just sharing as maybe part of your W's behavior is this push back / resentment behavior of you doing things that had been her sole domain...
That does feel like a hard part of these 180s. Many of these divisions of labor built up over time are part of the resentment - "why is doing XYZ always my job" - but that could create a comfort zone for them so when you start doing more of your share (because its NOT their sole job) you've taking away a comfort zone forcing them to deal with what is an appropriate R balance...
Si_07, I'm pulling for you. It is all so confusing, and it sounds like you're doing your best. Stay strong, and please keep sharing as your story is helping me (and I'm sure others) think through their situations, and I hope I can provide you some help back...
No thought of derailing here grelber.
My W has tried to suck me into more arguments because that is the main reason she says she wants out of this relationship, that there were too many arguments. Therefore I have made a real effort to keep tension out of the air, especially on my side. I have (for the most part) kept a calm and measured demeanor. When she has got hostile and angry, I now stop and walk away telling her that we can talk again when she had calmed down or stay quiet and wait it out. She has thrown down real good ones at me lately. I haven't always gone down the full validation route as some things are too wrong to allow. A recent one was that 8 years ago she believes I tried to intentionally burn her because I turned the tap in the kitchen on while she was in the shower. I didn't think she was in the shower at the time, just sounded like it was running with no one in it. I will question her thinking now because if she really felt like that about me I doubt she would have stayed with me for 8 more years, had 2 kids with me and be comfortable leaving the children with me alone and taking them on vacation alone.
In terms of the housework etc, I have always done a fair share but I have been doing more, primarily because I have found my pride in me again and I like a tidy home, something that had slipped and I had lost about myself. Also, she plans to move out at the end of the month, I am taking pride in the house I built.
I think me initiating the invite for friends over, having something to serve them ahead of time is different for her as she would have been the one to invite before, but even then she didn't do it often.
Thanks for your support.
Not much you can do when they try to suck you into an argument other than walk away.
Nothing I've said or done (apparently I look at her with disgust, disdain, resentment and a host of other negative emotions) works in those situations other than walking away.
It's like they bait you to argue so they can justify their feelings.
Today's interaction.... Kids are suffering from this, have been very tired and needy. Put them to bed early just as W got home. Was sitting on my bed (MBR) when she came to the doorway and asked about the kids. Answered her. She them hovered for a couple of minutes not saying anything but looking like she wanted to. She then turned away thanking me for supper but came back to talk about the wind and how I didn't need to go to the gym tonight, I could just go cycle into the wind for a good workout. Also talked about carnival parades being cancelled here because of the weather. She is now downstairs eating dinner alone.
When she was hovering, she was very fidgety, her head was looking down and her shoulders were slumped.
It has been such a confusing weekend. I know I am at times trying to understand the non-understandable. Her body language and actions just don't seem to match the things she was saying at the turn of the year. Maybe Chuck was very correct and the challenges I have created in her thought process are taking a toll on her. That she is questioning herself at times or reality of her decisions are starting to hit her harder.
Who really knows, I just feel like I'm on a good path for me and my kids that I will continue to walk. I feel at times that my W didn't believe I would handle being in my own, having the kids by myself and I will admit that last year I probably did have some of those thoughts. In the last 6 weeks, I have read so many things, several books and found the belief and confidence in myself to move forward and enjoy my days. (I am still taking it a day at a time) Make plans, push yourself, do something you didn't think you would ever do. I am going to run a half marathon in April, you ask my W and she would have said that I would never do something like that. One thing I know I was guilty of is always trying to put her first, trying to be what she wanted, now is my time to be who I want. If she wants to come along on the ride, it could be great but it can still be great without her. Do I still hurt? Yes. Do I still struggle at times? Yes, but I am also choosing to believe in me.
Something I learnt (and had forgotten) from my military days, especially the basic training. I was always able to let the shouting, the critisim flow past, taking in the small amount I needed to but ignoring the parts where they wanted you to engage. Then once it's done and over, go back to my own things and move forward. I view my situation now as something similar, it's not always easy but it can be done.
We can't change our past but we can create a better future and believe in ourselves.
We can't change our past but we can create a better future and believe in ourselves.
Well said Si.....
Its hard to stay on that path for some of us struggling thru all of this. I constantly have had to remind my STBX that hanging our hats on the past will never let us move forward.
She can't move past the past so its a non starter for us to rekindle.
Sounds like you are doing all the right things to keep yourself on track to deal with this tough situation
Keep it up!
Rich, my W is also living in the past regarding us. I don't even remind her anymore. The actions and struggles I see in her, I believe it's because I am giving the impression of moving on without her. If she can't, leave her to it, move forward for yourself. I told her a few days ago, thank you for waking me up and that she gave up on me too soon and that it was a shame she couldn't see the potential I see. I haven't brought us up since. She asks about what I do everyday. I am finding she wants company, I can be comfortable on my own (as much as I have always loved her company), she has always struggled on her own. She has always lived with roommates, or with me. Very rarely on her own. She is on turmoil, I can see that but the more I leave her alone to those thoughts, the harder it seems to be for her.
The hardest part for me to understand is that her words and actions are very far apart. She says she doesn't want to be with me anymore, that it doesn't feel good to be around me, but seeks me out and suggests things to do together even outside of the kids. Always looking for me and to engage eye contact.
She says she is scared of me but has no problem being right next to me, squeezing past me, leaning across me.
She tries to say we are still a team because we own a house together, I have told her that she has left and broken up the team. She wants to be on her own so I say she can work on 50% of the house things by herself. She wants to do it all together.
It is the weirdest, strangest experience I have ever been in.
Anyone that has experienced this and come out the other side have anything similar?
Interaction tonight was little. I worked late to catch up on some hours. After kids in bed, she went and had a bath. I went to start some laundry and she came by wearing a sweater and underwear ( this from the woman that says she is scared of me) She came and talked to me, standing next to me, to talk about some clothes she just got for the kids today. She has also had a habit lately of stopping talking and as I move away, start something else. Feels like she is trying to get me to keep walking back to her. I don't do this, if she continues I tell her she can come to me to continue.
So again this morning, she is walking around in a sweater and underwear, the sweater is not long enough to cover her ass.... Don't know if it's some sort of provoking, cry for attention, or something else. Nothing makes sense anymore!!!!
Anyways, I just keep moving forward on my own path.
Also found out this morning that it looks like W is going behind my back still about moving my D3 to a different daycare. I have not been against her moving but I want to wait awhile as there will be too much change too soon and she is doing well where she is at the moment. Guess I will have to have a talk about that later today... Just working on staying calm and measured in my approach.
Anyone have any thoughts, insights, concerns about my wife's interactions these past few days?
Hi Squiggly, I have been catching up on your story and I was hoping you could have a look though my story and would appreciate any insight from someone that is coming out the other side. Thanks.
The interaction where she was wearing a sweater and panties is just one of those times where you shake your head and go on about your business. Instead of you trying to figure out why or what with her......just make sure you don't react to her partially clothed body.
Thanks Sandi, I didn't say or do anything. Like you said, just carried on doing my own thing. I guess I'm trying to figure out what are games, manipulation attempts, test etc
Or which might be the small baby steps that are mentioned in the book.
Hi. Just to weigh in behind Sandi , your W walking around like that means nothing. You trying to analyse it will only wreck your head. Look at this this way , she's doing it because she's trying to tell you something OR look at it as she sees you as a good friend with no sexual feelings for you so she's very comfortable dressing like that
My W was in my bedroom sat am wearing nothing but my 14 year daughters very short ( for my D , let alone my W ) dressing gown What I took from it was .......... Nothing
It doesn't matter Focus on you and living your life. If your W wants an R talk she will make it clear
My personal analogue for this type of thing is your looking for a planet and your staring into space and all these stars can be see. but they are not the planet your looking for. When and if the planet comes into view it will be clear and not to be confused with the Stars
Just my humble opinion. Take care. Rd
Thanks Rd, I know one of my problems is trying to work out each interaction. I have moved forward and GAL away from her that she is regularly asking about. I do waste time and energy trying to work her out though.
I guess my questioning is because one of her complaints about me is how scared she says she is of me, but things like this don't indicate someone who is.
Thanks for the advice guys.
I agree. She certainly doesn't appear afraid of you and we're back to believe nothing they say .........
I still over analyse but I'm able to cut it short and accept what is
Take care. Rd
Part of my problem also is that a number of friends find that her words and actions don't make any sense, but I guess that is part of the bigger issue. I have had several comments from friends etc that have interacted with her believe she is conflicted and unsure of her decision. However, my W is not actually talking to them much. They are just seeing some of these interactions themselves and are just as confused as I am.
Sandi, you have talked about the need for her to feel a loss or losses, I have worked at removing myself and not making myself available for almost everything outside of the kids. It does seem to draw her in and be curious about what I am doing. You mentioned not to be worried about separation as a LBH, can you expand on this? I am not that concerned other than I will miss my kids when I don't see them, however I grew up in a divorced family so I do know what it is to live it, is it the loss of the family, children that can have an effect, is this what you mean by not being concerned about separation?
Update from another spewing session last night. Wasn't good enough at walking away...
Got told last night that the OM that she is attracted to is also bisexual.... Not really sure what to think of that but for sure this girl is no one I know anymore.
She also says she needs therapy, something I did agree with her own even if it's only for the sake of the children because I have seen her withdrawing from them over the past couple of months.
Don't see any hope, need to just keep moving forward for me and my kids.
Struggled today in the aftermath of yesterday. Now starting to believe that W is intentionally trying to hurt me and destroy what is left of me. The day she moves out can't come soon enough right now.
Worked late last night to avoid W as much as possible. When I got home, she had some supper in the oven for me, boiled the kettle since she thought I would want some tea, asked about my day, talked a little about her day.
Just the complete opposite again from the attitude of the night before. She was talking to her parents last night, as I brought my things down to the kitchen, I asked how they were and she told me. Offered if there was anything I could do, she could just ask, then said goodnight.
I will mention that some WW's temp check their H by dressing sexy and/or coming on to him. And I've seen some who just did it for cruel kicks, to mess with their H's head.
There are some WW's who won't allow their H to see them partially dressed, and others who will walk around completely naked. So, who knows. I usually warn LBH'S to be leery of these type of temp checks.
Thank you Sandi, I don't really understand what you mean by temp checking though.
Update for this weekend, spent a lot of the weekend so far with my kids. Had a friends birthday yesterday where I took the kids with me, W did not come even though these are friends of us both. She did have them a lot on Thursday and Friday. Today I told her I had plans with the kids by myself as I wanted to be with ones that love me. Left mid morning and am still out with them.
Heard from her brother and father yesterday, first I heard from her family in several weeks. They have said she feels controlled and stifled. It's hard to understand for me as she doesn't try and do or plan anything for herself and hasn't for the last year. Was I supposed to sign her up for things myself?
So last night after talking some more about the realities of her moving out, about the house the fact that it is not in a position to sell or rent out as we are still only a year in to the build process. W sat on the floor and was saying things like she didn't want this, didn't want to separate, is sorry for what is going on but won't explain how she I sorry.
Found it very frustrating hearing her talk like this but tried to just listen and see where she went with it. Said her head is full of different emotions and feelings but hadn't got any help to deal with them. Trying not to read anything into it but is not my strong suit still.
No interaction to speak about yesterday. Still have gone over the conversation from Monday. She has said she is sorry and feels remorse but am yet to truly believe it as she doesn't show or explain. It does seem that more of the reality of the situation is hitting her. I told her that when she moves out that I expect the key to be given back to me. Got the impression she thought she could come back when she wanted to. Also told her she would need to get her own car if she felt she needed one as sharing one will not work.
I know nothing gets restarted until they show sorrow and remorse and I am still getting the childish responses. If I don't see she won't explain or show it.
Keeping moving with my own plans and life.
The other thing I find amazing is how often she still asks for my help to do anything, she wants to stand on her own 2 feet but wants help so often. If it's to do with the kids I do some stuff but keep reminding her that she often says she doesn't want my help and doesn't want to do anything together.
Really feel she needs out on her own to deal with everything and see just how much I have done for her. Reality can suck some times...
Thank you Sandi, I don't really understand what you mean by temp checking though.
It is when the W is checking to see if she still holds you in the palm of her hand. I used a couple of illustrations in my recent thread. Since it is usually not that difficult for a woman to entice a man sexually, a lot of WW's will dress provocatively to tease......and if he caves, then she knows she rules the relationship. Some go as far as going to bed, then immediately, she's back to being cold and done with him. She wants reassurance that she's still controlling the show, and when she gets it.....she is gone again.
You mentioned not to be worried about separation as a LBH, can you expand on this?
I addressed this in Sandi's Reflections, I started over the weekend. If you still have questions, I will be glad to make an attempt to answer them.
Thank you Sandi, yes I saw your post and thank you for your input as always.
I don't understand her saying she didn't want what's happening, didn't want to split up etc. why if she is so done and finished as she said many weeks ago start saying that now. It doesn't make sense to me unless it's some kind of test.
While I was at the gym later, I got 2 texts asking for help about our internet and had I suggestions as to why it was dropping. I didn't answer them. When I got home, she talked about being a team and when I questioned it and said the 'team' part has been taken away, she wasn't to happy. She wants to leave but is not the one bringing up things anymore, I have been explaining what will need to happen and I don't know if it is a sense of realism hitting her or making her uncomfortable. It's just the strangest environment at the moment.
She spent about 40 mins sitting in our daughters room last night after putting her to bed.
B/c she's a mess, just like I was. There is a lot of turmoil going through her head. She wants to keep of the advantages of being M to you, but she doesn't want the disadvantages.
Your job is not to tell her how she feels. It's not to tell her what she needs. Your job is to get out of her way and let her crash and burn! Harsh? Maybe, but as long as the H is there to help her and protect her, trying to tell her what she should do.......it is holding her back from experiencing the losses and facing her reality as it is........instead of staying in her fantasy she's built.
Thanks Sandi, I have been keeping out of the way and telling her to figure things out for herself. This is what she says she wants. This came about from her when I told her that I will expect the key of the house back when she leaves, that she will have to get her own car if she feels she needs one. I had the impression she thought she could come back to the house whenever she felt like it. I made that clear it wasn't happening that way. I don't tell her where I'm going, when I will be back etc. I don't think you are being harsh, I agree with you that she needs to be hit with some sort of crash.
She even suggested that I could have the apartment and she would stay in the house. I said no to that naturally. It is almost like the apartment is not as appealing as the house anymore.
She said she has a lot of feelings and emotions in her head, she knows this but isn't ready to face then yet I guess. I know it's not my job to help her or try and push her. She has to figure it in her own time.
Thanks Sandi.
Sandi, how were you with friends and family? Could you put on a strong character to them also that you were sure of your decision and it was the best one for you? I'm assuming in your own head you were able to justify your actions and believe what you were doing was right for you. This fantasy you talk about.
Well, I tried. However, my family did not know anything to almost the eleventh hour.
I'm assuming in your own head you were able to justify your actions and believe what you were doing was right for you. This fantasy you talk about.
Oh, sure!