Newbie.
Married 10 years. 6yeard old daughter.
My wife said this summer in August she wasn't happy. Didn't feel the same way and was struggling as she didn't have the love she felt in our relationship anymore.
We have had issues the last 3 years or so and did randomly go to counseling but never consistent. I didnt' worship her and treat her like she should have been for those years as we went thru alot of issues with my mom who was sick and wife took care of her schlepping her around to doctors etc...We had other family issues of nobody helping and stress all around with work etc...
I checked out.
She thought she wanted some space or a separation but we have come full circle and she wants a divorce. Now I did all the wrongs things that folks say not to do here but she is strong headed woman and her heart is cold to me now. She feels we are so different in what we want from the relationship and I agree in the past it was true but feel if she would invest in counseling with me we could get to a good place. Sounds familiar to many stories and I feel I am too late
She also wants to eventually move back to her hometown which is 5 hours from where we are today and this would ruin even the bad situation we are in with our daughter today as we don't want to disrupt her life. Daughter is already very aware of the situation as she has been sulking and crying where she didn't before. That would kill me.....I could not move as I have nobody in that town and not sure I could even get a job in that area or would want to.
Not talking about it or trying to work with her on getting back to counseling will without doubt lead to the divorce as she wants us to get lawyers.
Help...I am drowning here.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Hello and welcome. Im sorry that youre here. Keep posting so that everyone can chime in to help and and offer support.
Married 10 years. 6yeard old daughter.
My wife said this summer in August she wasn't happy. Didn't feel the same way and was struggling as she didn't have the love she felt in our relationship anymore.
We have had issues the last 3 years or so and did randomly go to counseling but never consistent. I didnt' worship her and treat her like she should have been for those years.
I am sure that you contributed to the downfall of your marriage. I am also sure that it isnt 100% your fault. Likely, it's very close to 50-50. Im sure that some of the things your W did helped you to fell how you did. My point is that you shouldnt shoulder all of the blame here. What you SHOULD do is work to identify the behaviors that you did and what you can do to improve.
as we went thru alot of issues with my mom who was sick and wife took care of her schlepping her around to doctors etc...We had other family issues of nobody helping and stress all around with work etc...
I checked out.
Like this; what do you mean? How can you do better in your life going forward?
She thought she wanted some space or a separation but we have come full circle and she wants a divorce. Now I did all the wrongs things that folks say not to do here but she is strong headed woman and her heart is cold to me now. She feels we are so different in what we want from the relationship and I agree in the past it was true but feel if she would invest in counseling with me we could get to a good place. Sounds familiar to many stories and I feel I am too late
So, in your opinion, SHE needs to change her mind. Why do you want her to come back to a marriage that is failing? What magic do you believe there is in counseling?
Unfortunately, it doesnt work as you expect. Even if you got her to agree to go see a counselor with you, it wont make a lick of difference once she is at this point. Instead, you should turned your focus inwards. Reflect on you. Work on you. Become the man you want and should be. This will be ATTRACTIVE to your W, and she may re-consider you as a mate. But you have to do the growing FIRST.
She also wants to eventually move back to her hometown which is 5 hours from where we are today and this would ruin even the bad situation we are in with our daughter today as we don't want to disrupt her life. Daughter is already very aware of the situation as she has been sulking and crying where she didn't before.
So what are you doing or can you do to improve your relationship with your daughter? Honestly, THAT is more important than your relationship with your wife.
That would kill me.....I could not move as I have nobody in that town and not sure I could even get a job in that area or would want to.
Not talking about it or trying to work with her on getting back to counseling will without doubt lead to the divorce as she wants us to get lawyers.
Trust me. Talking about things will lead to that even FASTER. You have time now to work on you. Go read the homework Cadet posted. Read the book. And get to work.
thanks Azzork
I don't believe there is magic in cousneling Prior counseling was not effective for us as it was "set up dates" blah blah blah
EFT therapy I have read and know people that gets to the core of the connection issues. Not hoping for a miracle but to get to the core of why we disconnected. Takes 2 to tango though and I am dancing alone
She has made comments that I have been alot better and caring overall. But her heart is cast iron right now and I don't see that changing towards me
Divorce is not a long process where I live so worried that once this ship sails it isn't turning back.
I have done alot to this point on myself and realize where I can be a better husband but can't apply those things to me. I need her ....
BTW...is there any electronic version of the book versus hardcopy?
I don't believe there is magic in cousneling Prior counseling was not effective for us as it was "set up dates" blah blah blah
I suppose. It will only EVER work if both people are "in".
EFT therapy I have read and know people that gets to the core of the connection issues. Not hoping for a miracle but to get to the core of why we disconnected.
At this point, does the reason really matter a lot?
Takes 2 to tango though and I am dancing alone
Nope. Just takes one. What are you doing to change YOU?
She has made comments that I have been alot better and caring overall. But her heart is cast iron right now and I don't see that changing towards me
Who knows. It wont change today. Wont change tomorrow. But with consistent change, whos to say it wont in a month? or 6 months? or 5 years? or 25 years?
Divorce is not a long process where I live so worried that once this ship sails it isn't turning back.
If I made you OFFICIALLY DIVORCED today, what really changes for you? The divorce works in two stages:
On the one hand, you have the legal divorce. The way you file your taxes.
On the other hand, you have the emotional divorce. How you carry yourself in relation to your W. How you interact with others. And so on.
The timelines for these two are not the same. Just because you ar legally divorced doesnt mean that you or she is emotionally divorced.
I have done alot to this point on myself and realize where I can be a better husband but can't apply those things to me. I need her ....
Garbage.
Lets say you want to be.....more generous. Then you are generous with your daughter, your family, your friends, etc. Just not to your W. You practice acting in the way you want to act so you BECOME the way you want to act.
You dont need your W for that.
BTW...is there any electronic version of the book versus hardcopy? Unfortunately, I dont think so. Just chapter 1.
I know the areas I have not lived up to our marriage vows. And not making her a priority. It hurts...
I am making my daughter my number 1 priority right now. I can tell she is figuring this out and we can not have her be hurting. She is daddy's girl and this will crush her
I sound desperate because I am . I am keeping my head high and trying to not be a whiny little desperate man. But man....I just need to slow the train down
But man....I just need to slow the train down
From what Ive seen, this isnt really possible. BUT you can prevent it from going faster; read the 37 rules and start doing them, read the book and start implementing the changes. Those are great places to start.
Read the rules and ordered the book.
I am also going myself to a counselor that we have used this week by myself as i need advice. I feel underwater and drowning....
To stay positive I have read some of the stories where things have turned around...I need positive. While I don't have any hope at this point of her even opening up the door to reconciliation, I just can't think over and over again its done.
I just can't think over and over again its done.
So what are you doing to keep your mind off of this?
Are you doing some kind of GAL activities? Taking up a new hobby?
Trying.....guitar lessons starting again
Actually volunteering to help take elders to doctors appointments.
Hi Rich, welcome to our community. I am so sorry for you and your W. Is your mother still living?
I can connect with your W on two levels. I know what it's like to be a caregiver, and I think I have a good idea of how she feels right now in this MR.
What are the ages of you and W?
Life can certainly take its toll on a M, and any extra stress is added to that toll. And, let me just add this about the caregiving she has done for your mother. (And it's not to cause you guilt, that I am saying it.) No matter how much she loved your mother, it is your mother. When you checked out, I'd guess that was the icing on the cake for her. "Why should I sacrifice my life, when it's his mother. He should be the one taking care of her, not me. I am missing out on my own child's life.....yada, yada". See what I mean?
You can't undo it, but I'm just trying to help you see how she could have felt about it. Did she have any emotional support? I think you said there was no others that helped?
Did your W keep your mother at your home at the MIL's home? That can make a huge difference for a woman, if she's in her own home or her MIL's home.
But mostly look at pics of my daughter and break into tears.....i can't believe she is doing this. She went pre menopause a year ago and things have been different. Read up on it way too late. It isn't the cause of this but has definitely gotten her to make a decision to leave
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Forgot the age stuff
W-53; M-49
No...my mom passed. She did say the same things you did and it was the unraveling of our relationship. I handled it poorly and can't bandage the wounds from the past which have left deep scars.
She doesn't think I really know who she is but I do. I just went to a dark place for a while and didn't provide her with the support she needed.
Has she actually mentioned divorce, or just kind of talk around it?
Not talking about it or trying to work with her on getting back to counseling will without doubt lead to the divorce as she wants us to get lawyers.
Have you tried to talk to her and she refuses? Or, are you saying this based on the "don't talk about the R"?
She definitely said she wants a divorce .....4 months ago she wasn't sure about things.
Now wants to move on. I unfortunately have smothered her in the past 2 months She wants us to go see lawyers to see how we can get this done. No affairs as we had a very deep discussion on this.
I am sure from the stories here it is alot of the same theme but I am hopeless right now. I read the stories here and try to find some that are similar , which there are, but my wife is a very set in her way person and feels I am just wrong for her.
I am struggling after reading and reading on this site to see how this approach won't push her further away but i am willing to try anything.
-------------------------
------------------------------
Me: 49H
W: 53W
Daughter:6
8/2015- Not happy/don't know why but not feeling the same
1/7/2016- We should get a divorce
How is continuing to do what you have done going to bring her closer?
Nothing will bring her closer except if she wants to come closer! Chasing after her will only make her run faster.
Stop trying to control her and focus on you. That's all you can do.
It's hard
Just had the bubble really burst last week but your comment makes sense. It's just counter intuitive to the common sense part of the brain
Not sleeping for 2 months and not being able to eat doesn't help either.
We are still under the same roof and will be for a few months which makes things even harder. I see a lawyer this week
She actually put a spreadsheet on my desk so I can fill out our financial picture as she is seeing a lawyer
For the board: I have read stories that have not ended that well that is this far down the path. Hoping some of you have some success stories
I keep my anger inside as what she is doing is so selfish as our daughter will suffer. She said "I need to do what makes me happy".
So its ok for our daughter, me , the dogs....to fade into the sunset? Just venting.
So was really hard this AM as she had to take a train for some stuff that is semi related to work and was like " do you have time to drive me or I can walk?" its a cold 15 minute walk and I wasnt really sure what to say
Naturally since we are under the same roof I took her but how do you not? Sorry..I have a conference call and can't ...walk in the cold
Under the same roof is tough with these type of situations so I just drove her, didn't say a word, and dropped her off. Ugh
It is very hard living under the same roof. I did it for over a year. Ex would cook and serve me dinner every night, she would eat with me as if nothing. Even tho she didnt speak to me. The weirdest thing. She made bowtie pasta almost every night? That was new.
All you can do right now is try and keep the peace. If she asked for a ride to work I would do it. What will she do for transportacion when she is on her own? Are you GALing? Very important to find some joy for yourself right now.
She works from home so it was just a one time thing. She can walk if the weather is fine. No issue there...
Funny thing is so far she has texted me twice on her trip. One was "in case you wanted to know I did get here OK".
Reading all the DB stuff while I won't ignore this, I won't take it , misinterpret or try to think that "wow...she is engaging and wants back in!!!" It is too hurtful and wrong as I need to back away from the ledge on this stuff
I am working on trying to figure out how I stay in my house so I can take care of my 2 dogs and have some "love" around. It will be tough as I travel occassionally but I will make it work
GAL....reconnecting with some friends, a bit of guitar and cant wait until the spring for my harley!
Hi Rich,
You have received some exceptional advice. I can empathize how you are feeling.
You mentioned that your W is possibly moving 5 hours away. Is that in the same state? The reason I ask, is because you have rights. Don't simply give those up. No matter what, your daughter will always be your daughter. Don't sacrifice that for anything.
Do you journal? I found this to be very helpful to me. I wrote down small, attainable goals. I wrote down a lot of different things.
Ultimately, any change in your sitch begins with you. Why? Because you are the one here and the one who wants to save the M. First, you have to work on getting yourself emotionally stronger. That's why it is important to GAL. IMPORTANT!!! This cannot be overstated.
Things will get better. Hang in there. One step at a time.
thank you.
No...it is a few states away and that is not happening.
It is a selfish request and its all about her happiness which she needs to find but not at the expense of my daughter...she is too precious. She can visit when she likes :-)
I saw your situation in your signature and hats off to you for the rollercoaster and keeping it together!
I am trying to get things going as I come out of the fog. Doing some charity stuff monday on MLK day and plan to pick back up my guitar lessons too.
What a rollercoaster.....
No...it is a few states away and that is not happening.
Good deal. I made this mistake.
It is a selfish request and its all about her happiness which she needs to find but not at the expense of my daughter...she is too precious. She can visit when she likes :-)
Yes, protect your daughter as much as possible. No arguing in front of her. No badmouthing your W. I am sure you are already taking the necessary steps to protect her.
I saw your situation in your signature and hats off to you for the rollercoaster and keeping it together!
Thank you. I can tell you that I have friends from these forums who were going through this at the same time. Some saved their M/R and some did not. We all are better for doing the work. We all have to get ourselves to our happy place in spite of the outcome of our situations. If you put in the work, you will get there too. Believe.
I am trying to get things going as I come out of the fog. Doing some charity stuff monday on MLK day and plan to pick back up my guitar lessons too.
I love the idea of helping others. The more we help others, the more we forget our own problems.
What a rollercoaster.....
Yes it is. It is one of the most difficult things that we can experience. That being said, we can learn more from one storm, than a thousand days of sunshine. Make the best of it and keep the faith.
She called this evening to talk to our daughter as she is only gone one night. It was painful as I could tell she was buzzed and it bothers me how much she drinks...
I did not ask how the meetings went etc...although I wanted to so badly to see how her day went...I think she expected this too but can't do it.
I am now starting to get mad/angry at the entire situation.
Assuming this is part of the rollercoaster? She has put me thru so much and today...for the first time in months I was angry and didn't have a pit in my stomach and could actually eat!
I keep expecting this miracle call , text, or whatever but from reading the stories here I should stick with reality and know the path right now is D and to try to focus on self.
I keep expecting this miracle call , text, or whatever but from reading the stories here I should stick with reality and know the path right now is D and to try to focus on self.
At the beginning, I think most of us "expect" that magic moment for our wayward spouse to have an epiphany. Expectations keep us on the emotional roller coaster. The reality is that it took a long time to get to this point and will take time to to get back to a good place.
Most of us are impatient and want things resolved immediately. We don't want to feel the emotional pain. Pain suks. Well, growth comes from pain if we choose to dig deep and work. I bet you are more motivated to make change now, than you were in the past. Why? Because people generally become more motivated when they face a loss. In this case, our M/R.
Have you ever heard, "Slow is Fast and Fast is Slow"?
-When you slow down to reflect on how YOU contributed to the demise of your marriage and begin addressing YOUR part, you will be better off down the road.
-If you rush things, you will overlook details, inevitably these areas will need to be revisited(slowing down the process). Additionally, you don't want to go back to the same M, because it wasn't working.
Eventually you will begin to demonstrate genuine change. These changes are for YOU, as you have repeatedly read on these forums. That being said, your W will take note. She might follow your lead or she might not. Only time will tell.
It's your time!! Take the bull by the horns.
I keep expecting this miracle call , text, or whatever but from reading the stories here I should stick with reality and know the path right now is D and to try to focus on self.
Theres no way to know this to be true.
Live your life as if that miracle call is not going to come, but keep hope alive that it will - until you dont care if it does any more.
The actual act of divorcing your wife doesnt really play into that. If it happens, it happens. If it doesnt, it doesnt.
thanks LITB
Good advice and this board is very helpful for a place of comfort in the toughest of times.
How did you get thru the ups and downs and it looks like you were close to divorce and reconciled with a bunch of rollercoaster rides?
I have known my issues and have been working on them for a few months. She has noticed but says its too late....heart is hardened and wants to move on. Too much damage done....
I don't know where this goes except divorce and I just have to get thru the ups and downs and false hope of reconciliation for now.
My heart burns every day for the other love of my life which is my daughter. Being 6 , she is precious and innocent and this will squash her heart.
I hate hearing the "kids are resilient" stuff. She is a single child and will be heavily impacted from this....thats what turns my stomach and keeps me up at night.
Azzork
Makes sense. But I think tomorrow she is going to see a lawyer which is the start of the ball rolling downhill
It could mean things escalate quickly or not but I have no control over that...
It is easier said than done to live my life as if that isn't going to happen and i truly appreciate your words of encouragement
It is what I need to shoot for....or lose my sanity
Has anyone who has had to live in the same house with your W who is planning on a D been able to cope and keep things sane for months? She is going to see the lawyer tomorrow. Step 2
I want to stay here for my daughter and keep things civil but its so hard. I came back from a work trip today and we had to text each other about the dogs, daughter etc....and she had meetings too about a project she is working on. And unsolicited she says "todays meetings were the best I have had to date..."
Naturally I tried to DB by just answering the question /text around the dogs and time I would be back but had to say "congrats". I am looking back at this saying I should have just stuck to the dogs .....why congratulate her?
Ugh...I need some scotch!
Hello Rich4j,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
You are wise to focus on being the best Rich and Dad you can be without thinking about winning your W back. Make these changes/improvements for you and your precious daughter. Your wife may say that she notices these changes and it is too late and that is OK! You are making these changes for you and your daughter, right?
Have you consulted with an attorney? I know that is not the path you want, but having the knowledge of what to expect and what your rights as a parent are will be helpful.
Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Hi rich4j. I'm still living in the house with my WW and D3. WW went to see a L last Friday to get the D ball moving. All I can say is take one day at a time. Unfortunately I spent parts of Saturday and Sunday text arguing. Monday she left a door open and our dog escaped. Although I was extremely angry, I asked to post on FB about dog. When a tip helped me find the dog, I thanked her and mentioned that finding the dog was a good team effort. Tuesday and Wednesday have been pleasant. Hope today goes the same but we'll see.
Regardless, you're in tough sitch and I wish you well.
Gr8r
Sorry to hear that....on the ball rolling and the dog! I have 2 dogs and would have been livid.
Today was one of the toughest days so far.
W has been spending like crazy and taking advantage of this situation. She had a lawyer appointment today and was asking me tons of questions about finances which I don't want to answer as it feels like knives being thrown at me. She has basically ruined any chance of a comfortable life for me and us for the forseeable future.
I also went to a lawyer and I was so upset that I almost vomited when leaving. I am afraid she won't let me stay in the house after D and will be taking me to the mat.
I had to go see the therapist we had worked with to talk thru this stuff which made me fee a bit better but not great.
I hope she is reasonable thru this as she is usually a hot head and I think going to use our daughter and her desire to move away as a negotiation thing. I won't go for it...that is non -negotiable.
My therapist mentioned that she has had some couples at the brink go away for a weekend at a Divorce Buster type of event and has worked out for a few.
Right now, no chasing or last ditch efforts. But this train has a head of steam and its about to run me over...
Oh yeah, I was livid. Fortunately I am slowly learning to take a breath and ask myself whether or not my reaction is going to help me possibly reach my goal of R or push me further away. Fortunately / unfortunately, my WW is giving me lots of practice. Seems like she tries to start arguments (imo) just so she can stay mad and angry with me.
Heard lots of others on board suggest protecting yourself. Sounds like that may be particularly important for you. Hopefully your W will be reasonable, that's what mine claims she wants.
I sure hope your W is reasonable.
Mine is 53 and hasnt worked for a while and I know she is going to hit me hard. Financial stuff was one of the issues in our marriage that I know she knows it will hurt me And she has been very mean lately....
This is only getting harder for me. Everything around me reminds me of my family
Was in a starbucks and saw a husband with his 2 kids and wife happily hanging and playing around ....almost lost it and cried in a damn Starbucks.....wow.
SOMEBODY HELP ME KEEP MY SANITY HERE!!!!!
Got home and the W, colder than cold, tells me a book came and she was sorry but she opened the package. It was the Divorce Remedy book....she chuckled in an ugly way
And then started in on needing the financial info for the lawyer. I got to tell you, I read some of the stories here and there is hope
But here....I only see a painful road until we get a divorce settlement in place.
I am going to start reading tonight regardless....
Wow!!! Sorry to hear that. I think I would feel violated in some way if my W did that. I went to the bookstore to buy my copy the old fashion way so there wouldn't be a chance for that to happen. I think I also would have stuff shipped to work instead of my house as well.
Hopefully reading the book will provide you with some solace and hope. If nothing else, I think it will help guide you to becoming a better person.
thx Yeah...went to bookstore but they did not have it!
Strangely enough too she made a comment that "maybe I should read it"
Not sure...got to read it first to see if I should even think about that! thoughts?
I actually came across the book before I found this forum. It's a good read. I read it in 2 days while the W was out of town. It provides more details, elaboration and examples of the advice that people on this forum share with one another. It provided me with a very rationale explanation (IMO) for why I was not having success with my floundering attempts at R. It reminded me of many of the concepts and ideas that I used to use to attract women. Women dig confidence, self assurance and manliness, neither of which I was showing by constantly begging for 1 more chance. I was no longer the guy who took his W to Home Depot for their 3rd date to have her buy flowers that I would plant for her rather than showing up to a dinner date with flowers.
Sounds great...looking forward to reading it this weekend while she is out of town
Maybe i dont want her to read it too!
Cadet 2nd Wonka's opinion that you shouldn't share the book. W might think you're trying to manipulate her.
Good advice. I interpret stuff like her wanting to maybe read it like "hey...another sign of hope". I got to get off that train fast....its not healthy.
She is gone all weekend with visiting friends who are not the best influence. One is going thru a divorce from her husband who has been an alcoholic for years and she is finally breaking free but she is in my wife's ear all the time about "make yourself happy" And her other friend visiting is single and they will be all about supporting her which is expected. Can't control that stuff and can worry about it but not worth it anymore.
Almost folded this am and put up the white flag of DB'ing. Started reading last night...
So hard. My wife is going out of town tonight with my young daughter then going dropping her off and heading to her girlfriend who is divorcing for the weekend.
I wanted to again say "let's really give this another shot with counseling and not give up".
So damn hard. I got to get out of this pattern and rut.....
Re-read my last post to you about sharing the information you learn here.
Sorry you are struggling, it will get better for you,
keep posting here and learning
thx cadet
I did read a post about Sandi's rules and I did post/ask about sending articles to her on the impact of divorce and especially on children. Seems that's a bad idea with DB'ing
Its just she has the blinders up about how resilient kids are and she was a kid of divorce and she is fine....NOT! I hate the resilient stuff My therapist (and formerly hers) was chuckling when I said this as divorce always impacts children in a negative way no matter how good you co parent and try to make things ok for them
Some of these articles cite facts about this and how divorce impacts kids.
"You shouldn't stay together just for the kids". B.S...you should and it should be a reason you try whatever it takes to get thru the fog and make it work
Of course, I am biased (and struggling)
Hi rich4j
I am in an in house separation and it is the hardest thing I have ever had to deal with.
Now I am not the best person to give advice but one thing I am doing is spending as much time as I can with my children building as strong emotional connection with my kids.
I have been given so much great advice and when it comes to reading other people's threads you can pick up so much from doing this.
One of the things that I found helpful is knowing that you cannot control people and even in a marriage you hope they will stay and you believe they will but there is no guarantee after time people do change and sometimes there is nothing you can do to stop this.....none of us want this and will do anything to turn back time
Detach and gal ...I just wish I could take my own advice
Take care and be strong
Ghost
AtPeace----wow...that's hard. Seems you have had the same amount of time in the house as i have in separate bedrooms and the struggle. I went into the other BR in August and been there since....D talk started a few weeks ago.
I am trying. She has another interest, not a person, but a business venture that is her love and focus now She practically ignores the daughter alot when she is at home and buries herself in the office. Daughter has noticed and even at a young age brought it up
Legal stuff has started as she is asking for all our financial stuff to get this moving. I will make it as peaceful as I can and try not to pull out the begging card ever again.
"You shouldn't stay together just for the kids". B.S...you should and it should be a reason you try whatever it takes to get thru the fog and make it work
If you were bound by law to a woman you could not stand to be near, much less feel loving emotions........would you want to trapped in a M with her for the rest of your life, simply b/c there were kids? (I am not arguing with you, I am giving you her WW VP). Would you stay in a loveless and sexless M until the day you died? If you were forced to live a person who constantly showed you hate and disrespect in public, before your friends & relatives, and your children, would you want to spend your entire life with her? Some day those kids will be gone, then it's just the two of you...........do you still stay with this person you don't even like, for the adult kids' sake? This is how she feels.
When a man gets in the pulpit about staying in a M for the sake of the kids, I tend to think it's b/c he is still in love with the woman and wants to find some way of making her stay in the M. "How can she do this to the kids"? But if he puts the shoe on his foot and pictures being with a person he couldn't stand, he might give a different answer. And, if she has an OM waiting in the wings, she resents her H and being M to him more than ever. She sees staying for the sake of the kids as entrapment and preventing her from taking her only chance at true happiness.
So, that argument won't fly with her. I will be honest enough to tell you that I don't know that I could stay in a miserable M just for someone else's sake. And I have seen some M's that it
was better for the kids when the S's divorced (but I'm not saying that is true for yours). I may be the only person on the board who will admit it, but look around at 50% of divorces, and you'll know that someone else feels that way, too. I am just being real with you. At times, it almost sounds a little sanctimonious to hear the LBS saying that the other S should stay in the M to them b/c of the kids. Probably did not win any friends by making that statement. Just trying to get people to realize how it sounds to the ears of the other person, and to stop and think how you might feel if things were reversed. Point being, don't say it to her and expect her to change her mind. You can't guilt her back into loving you. Maybe that is why your C responded in that manner, b/c it's almost like LBS
script. Btw, I am saying this for whoever reads this post, not just for you.
Changing the subject just a bit, I wanted to tell you that it is pointless to say something to her about reading M books, or reconsidering working on the M, etc. Why? Well, this is what I see in a lot of newcomer LBH'S. He seems to think his WW still desires to share a life with him. Her feelings have changed. She no longer wants him or the M. What he may have done previously to patch up rough patches in the MR, will not work this time. She is wayward. He will probably experience more coldness, rudeness, hatefulness, selfishness, and almost every negative attitude & behavior from his WW that is humanly possible. I can almost guarantee that he will, if he tries to persuade her, and/or show how much he loves her and is working to keep her where she doesn't want to be. However, if he takes a different approach, everything could change.
Here's the catch. She has to believe that he no longer is interested in her. I don't mean he should act mad. Being angry shows that he still cares. Hanging on, chasing after her, being all emotional in front of her, and laying down for her to step on him......shows her that he still wants her. It shows her he is emotionally attached to her. The minute she feels him detach, (and she'll know when he really does), she will start pursuing him. Oh yeah, the real catch is that he has to actually detach, in order for her to believe it. When he detaches and moves forward, she sees him being more attractive and she sees she has put him out there on the dating market. That little detail causes her to stop and rethink her plan.
Sandi2
Thanks for the note. Stay together forever for the kids? Horrible marriage . Nope..I agree. I was on the pulpit as I want to save my M and everyone's story is different. The "horrible" marriage in the views of our therapist wasn't that horrible and deifnitely areas she sees alot that can be healed. But that is my biased view. My point in my situation is that she is throwing in the towel too early but that is out of my control.
I agree on the last few paragraphs. I am coming around....i have nothing to lose with the DR approach. If I sit around like a wounded puppy dog I am more unattractive to her than I am now. This board is helping me on my down days to get back up .....I hope I can do it.
Glad you didn't throw out what I had to say.
. You can learn more about what works and what doesn't work with a WW. To save you, hopefully, more heartache, I will tell you that you can't be soft and nice her back. To a WW, that is not attractive in a H. Until you have her respect, you won't have her attraction, or love. Therefore, working to get your self-respect again as a man, is where you start. Do some self-evaluation and see if you have slipped, or are youthe same confident guy you were before M. Think of what you need to do to find that guy again. Before M, what would you have done if a woman had treated you as shamefully as your own W has done? I realize more is at stake now, but my point is to find the man you use to be. You can be your own best friend, or your biggest enemy. It's up to how you think.
Most everything about you that comes across to her as passive, or "soft" will be interpreted as weakness. If you have been in the habit of being non-decisive or letting her make the decisions in order to keep the peace, this was a big mistake, and you need to make a huge u-turn immediately. Women......especially wayward women, despises passivity in men.
Spend time seriously thinking about your values, standards, principles, spiritual and personal beliefs. Decide what you will not live without (and don't say your W). I mean things like integrity, dignity, etc. Decide what you will no longer tolerate. Think about personal boundaries and what you do or would do f those boundaries were violated.
These are important areas to give deep thought, instead of going crazy over your what your W may do. It won't be wasted time spent.
Set goals about you....for you. How can you become a man you like? Set forth a plan to get there.
Sandi can you check in on my thread I have a couple of questions and you have been a great help I just don't want to hijack here
Many thanks
Ghost x
Good words of advice Sandi2
A real hard part of this is living together while this is all going on and sharing $$$ etc....everything.
I need to put my foot down on some things in a calm way so we can navigate thru the divorce if this keeps going this way. The financial piece that she is asking to talk about now due to the L is painful as can be. She is spending like crazy now and need her to realize this is less $$$ for our daughter and all of us if she keeps this up.
How did you get thru the ups and downs and it looks like you were close to divorce and reconciled with a bunch of rollercoaster rides?
Hey Rich....I apologize for the delay in responding. I got roped into a couple of days of jury duty.
Anyhow, it took time. I stayed busy and surrounded myself with a great support system. I made a cognizant effort to keep my head up and shoulders back. Fake it 'til you make it if you will.
Don't worry too much about your W seeing the book. It isn't a make or break thing. Just a small speed bump along the journey.
Sandi is spot on. Her advice is always solid. Things shifted in my sitch when I had detached and moved on.
You also mentioned that you thought about raising the white flag. Whether you save your M or not, the path is the same. The only way to the other side of this he11, is through it. At the end of the day, you have to look yourself in the mirror. I think it is important to be able to look back at this time in your life and know that you did your best. You don't want to look back at this time with regret.
In your estimation, what does an attractive person look like? Happy is one of the traits for sure. I suggest thinking about that and making it your goal to be that person.
Remember....believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see. Try not to focus on what your W says or what she does. Things change. Feeling change. They were different before this, right? The pendulum can swing back to the positive.
A real hard part of this is living together while this is all going on and sharing $$$ etc....everything.
I need to put my foot down on some things in a calm way so we can navigate thru the divorce if this keeps going this way. The financial piece that she is asking to talk about now due to the L is painful as can be. She is spending like crazy now and need her to realize this is less $$$ for our daughter and all of us if she keeps this up.
Good luck in trying to get her cooperation about the finances, or anything else that resembles the side of logical. Her selfishness will trump over the needs of her children. You can't reason with crazy.
[/quote] Sandi is spot on. Her advice is always solid. Things shifted in my sitch when I had detached and moved on.
LITB-thx again. How long was that when you detached? Was she ready for divorce and about to file?
My W wants to move fast from everything that has transpired since after new years. I now know she just wanted to get thru the holidays and then drop the bomb on me before our latest therapy appointment which she did. She ws talking very loud to a girlfriend and I overhead the whole thing...very hurtful.
We split up on weekends so any DB'ing is a bit tough right now. I can only try the approach during the week etc....
Just looking for some positive results on the board from the approach. Lots of sad stories .....looking for some light.
How long was that when you detached? Was she ready for divorce and about to file?
It took me 13 months to completely detach. It was after I finally had confirmation of her relationship w/OM. I had to process all of my feelings. The hurt, the anger, the sadness, etc.
The D had been filed 10 months prior to me being detached. It was pending because we had a custody battle going on and she was 2 states away. It got ugly. I made a lot of mistakes along the way. I won't bore you with them, but as you can see they weren't deal breakers.
You said that it was hurtful to listen to her talk to her girlfriend about your situation. Then try not to listen.
It is difficult, but you gotta have faith in the process.
LITB- you are strong...wow. I can see melting in that situation right now Glad you are able to keep going.
So many ups and downs. Had friends over the other night to GAL....3 divorced folks (not good influence I know) and a friend who is married and working thru things. Theme was for most that they wanted to work things out but the other did not...not surprising. Was OK when we were together but when they left I was lonely/sad again
Have my daughter and we are having fun together the rest of the weekend while wife is away visiting her friends (divorced/single group).
My brother and good friend who is female believe I have blinders on and there is an affair probably going on. My wife comes from a family where her dad and brother were both unfaithful and she flipped to the other side and has been so against them due to taht ......But it is starting to worry me not that I can do anything about it.
We have talked about it and she denies anything but now I am getting suspicous. Maybe a phase of what I am going thru?
Well...I have to have faith. It's all that is keeping me going right now besides my daughter but I don't see this slowing down at all.
I hope I can find more good days ahead.
My W wants to say hi to daughter every night she is away...which is nice. But it bothers me to put her on the phone and listen to her as she sounds intoxicated and is now where I think she may be having an affiar out of town. Not convinced 100% yet but the stories here and signs point to it
How do I continue this way having to interact so much? its painful
My W wants to say hi to daughter every night she is away...which is nice. But it bothers me to put her on the phone and listen to her as she sounds intoxicated and is now where I think she may be having an affiar out of town. Not convinced 100% yet but the stories here and signs point to it
How do I continue this way having to interact so much? its painful
If the signs point to an A,it is very likely. Do a search on a member by the name of Starsky. He did an exceptional job of digging for evidence and then acting on it.
BTW, you have the right to limit your interactions. Don't listen to her conversations with your D or her friend, especially since you know they cause you to hurt. You'll have to set boundaries.
litb....not sure I could stomach finding out about an A right now as this is hard enough but it may explain more than what I am grasping at now.
Not sure when I get to eat again as I have a pit in my stomach every day.
couldn't find info on starsky except a post or 2.
Got 1/2 way thru the Divorce Remedy book...is this alot different than DB?
litb....not sure I could stomach finding out about an A right now as this is hard enough but it may explain more than what I am grasping at now.
Not sure when I get to eat again as I have a pit in my stomach every day.
couldn't find info on starsky except a post or 2.
Got 1/2 way thru the Divorce Remedy book...is this alot different than DB?
Here is a link to a great post from sandi2 about intel. Post #2644016
Post from sandi2 I realize that it is a lot to digest. Not trying to overwhelm you.
Let's talk about you. How's your GAL going? What has changed about you since you began this journey?
I'd suggest to read and re-read the links that Cadet has provided. Detachment, boundaries, GAL and not being an enabler are within your control.
thanks...will re-read
It has been harder than expected I think of her alot and now that I suspect maybe an A it is hurtful even more although no evidence yet. Found new teeth whitener stuff , self tanner etc.....on her way to single hood OR for maybe someone she met. It is eating me inside....
Alot has changed since I began this in silence months ago but I really need to focus on detaching I can't feel or look for the hope that she is rational or really wants to work this out...that ship has left. I just have not been able to push away...
I am polite but short with her. Texts are OK, etc...just task stuff.
But I don't know how long I can do this.....
You are very early in your sitch, so I realize this is a ton to process.
Do you journal? I don't recall if you posted your goals. Goals that are independent of your W. Examples: volunteer, exercise, hobbies, spending quality time with the important people in your life (other than your W), making memories with your D, etc.
You have choices here. This is an opportunity for you to change YOU and to change YOUR WORLD. You can choose to let this mess put you on your knees and keep you there....or you can use this time to grow and become the best Rich possible.
When you focus on YOU, time becomes irrelevant. Why you may ask? Because you are working on yourself and no matter what happens with your W....you still have YOU.
That being said, you will have more influence on the outcome than you recognize at this time.
Sitch has been going on since mid August...just haven't added that to my signature yet which I should so its been a painful ride
But the bad part of the sitch just started in January so yes early
I don't journal. And do need to put down some goals as they are in my head like volunteering which I did today. Drove an elderly lady to the doctor as she can't drive. Went bowling with my D....keeping it going.
Hopeful I can get to the YOU as you point out. Thanks for the words of encouragement
I finished the DR book. I need to work on detaching and doing a 180 as I wish I picked this book up about 4-5 months ago when the "I am not sure I can do this anymore" came out
There wasn't much I got out of the book that already wasn't posted here based on where I am at with the big D. She is gone and unlike some stories here of hope to reconcile, I have a strong headed wife and we have some major baggage that I dont think she will leave alone...no past A but enough that she has moved on
I know many of you have been here but it seems so hopeless in terms of any type of hope. I will continue to work on myself and keep busy .....
Anyone have a good enlightening story where their W/H went to a lawyer, said divorce is happening and then "???" how many weeks or months later changed course?
Anyone have a good enlightening story where their W/H went to a lawyer, said divorce is happening and then "???" how many weeks or months later changed course?
Yes there are lots of reconcilliation stories.
It is more than weeks and months may change to years however they are out there.
Read the homework.
In the newcomers resources is Mozza's thread that has lots of links to them.
I need to work on detaching and doing a 180.
Just one? What kind of 180(s)?
I have a strong headed wife and we have some major baggage that I dont think she will leave alone...no past A but enough that she has moved on
Pretty much everyone's wives here are "strong headed". I think it takes that kind of woman to go down this path. Regardless, if she wants to come back, she will find a way. Your job is just to keep the pathway clear.
I know many of you have been here but it seems so hopeless in terms of any type of hope. I will continue to work on myself and keep busy .....
Just to be clear, the point of GAL is not just to "keep busy". There are so many benefits besides just being busy. But ultimately, if you do the work to heal and grow, then you never know what you'll find. Just start walking down the path; no need to try to control where it goes.
thx Cadet/Azzork
Right now it is keeping busy so I can figure out what makes me happy. I need to keep my mind off of her and on making my way and my daughter/dogs.
She is coming back from being away 4 days with her girlfriends and i know things will be even more uncomfortable. I am dreading it and gladly won't be around as much due to business travel etc...
180s- to start with I am not sleeping in the guest bedroom anymore. We can figure out a schedule each month or something but I am not living like a visitor; I used to work out of home but since this D stuff I got a temp office and pay for it. Come March 1 I will no longer pay for it and will work out of home if needed unless my company will pay. Why inconvenience myself? She has a book release that is now the focus of her life vs me and the daughter. Taking up tennis which is a 180 as she plays and it was something I wouldn't do in the past.
One area I wanted advice is the following. She has a book coming out and it has been the focus for her the last year. Also part of why I think she now has a more focused love which is all about herself which I didn't support as I needed in the past. Would me asking how this is going and being engaged by totally going against the DB? It would be somethign totally different than what I have been doing.
You may want to read Crimson's story. They actually got divorced, but last I heard, they were reconciled. However, there was no infidelity there.
I think it took two years, or longer, before his XW started coming back around.
ANY good advice on how to handle this situation?
She has a book coming out and it has been the focus for her the last year. Also part of why I think she now has a more focused love which is all about herself which I didn't support as I needed in the past.
Would me asking how this is going and being engaged by totally going against the DB? It would be something totally different than what I have been doing.
I wasn't going to start the conversation but she has lately come home and said "had a really good meeting with XYZ". I usually say now "thats great" and move on.....
ANY good advice on how to handle this situation?
She has a book coming out and it has been the focus for her the last year. Also part of why I think she now has a more focused love which is all about herself which I didn't support as I needed in the past.
Would me asking how this is going and being engaged by totally going against the DB? It would be something totally different than what I have been doing.
I wasn't going to start the conversation but she has lately come home and said "had a really good meeting with XYZ". I usually say now "thats great" and move on.....
What are your "expectations"?
I don't have any expectations at this point
In fact, things have turned worse today. I am struggling big time in this area and detaching. I really have zero hope on this turning around at this point....have another knot in my stomach
She flew back from her trip and started demanding I get to her financial stuff for her lawyer and used the word "asap". She wants things done and fast....
I totally keep suspecting an "A" but have not been able to identify/turn over anything remotely
Sick to my stomach. This is so hard ....got to keep on track though with DB'ing and expect the worst from her.
I need to put my foot down on some things
You need to put your foot down on a lot of things. You're letting her dictate everything right now and your response is to cry and beg her not to leave you. You look very weak and unattractive to her right now. You need to man up right now. Today. This minute. People here will give you great advice. All I'll offer is that no woman respects a doormat. Stop being one.
I forgot to add, women almost never just say I'm done, I don't love you anymore...UNLESS...there is another man already in the picture. I'll bet my bottom dollar that is the case here. Sorry to be blunt but you don't have the luxury of time to screw around whining and crying about your situation. You need to find out what you're really dealing with here. Find out right now by any means necessary. Do it today. I really am trying to help you. I used to be you.
I hear ya and thanks for the tough love.
So I am speaking to a lawyer again tomorrow on if it matters legally around infidelity in PA (where i live). I believe it does...
Then I need to find out how I "find out" as I think if anything it is out of town.
Hiring a PI may be the path I have to go to get this cleared up or not. I found some "things" to help me dig into this suspicion and came up with mostly nothing.
I have asked her flat out and she said no. I can't ask again as I will get the same answer.
As for anything at all that she says her lawyer is requesting, provide absolutely nothing until you've consulted your own lawyer.
Rich,
You said that your W is looking to move to another state. Is that where she was over the weekend?
As TxHubby said, you don't have to give her anything right now.
I hope you post often, especially when times are intense. Many of us know the general script for both the WAS and the LBS. We can help guide you through this.
thanks All
I am in the midst of a tough time . I will power through it..she is over the top right now with vinegar. Could you empty the vacuum next time when the dog hair is in there? REALLY???? You just got in town from a girls trip , you are breaking up the family and you are going to go there? PLZZZZZ
How about you pack up and get out of the house so I can think and breath!
Vent over...deep breath....and maybe a scotch tonight
She did break down last week and said she wanted to eventually move back to her hometown which is a good distance away (5-6 hrs)....not happening with my daughter.
I went back to when I first heard the "I am not sure how i am feeling" speech and she had no trips she was going on to the town she has visited a few times over the past few months where her best friends are..... I honestly do think there is no "A" but from my readings here that is probably false thinking.
Continuing my smile, shoulders up, good mood, and wait until I tell her I am picking up tennis (I joined a meet up group) which is her fav sport. Something I have wanted to do for a while now....
She will say things that make you shake your head. Typical WAS behavior. Right now, you are the villain in her world. You are the obstacle to her happiness. She is going to spew venom at you over the most ridiculous things.
Remember, believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see. I suggest to be very aware. She will offer clues what she is up to.
Please get with your Lawyer with a list of questions. Know your rights. It will help reduce some anxiety of the unknown.
You don't need to tell her about your tennis group. That's for you. DB'ing is counter-intuitive.
BTW, this is a good place to vent. Keep cool in front of your W. Easier said than done.
LITB
Easier said than done is right. Just had a tough conversation with her as she is a hot tempered lady...it's one of the things I loved about her
Proud of myself in a few aspects. No begging, no wimpering, no "lets work this out". It was just some fact based conversations of logistics for our daughter, lawyer discussions, what will we do for her for spring break which she said I am not going to Disneyland wiht you....I said...no problem...totally fine...i will take her!
I am the villain!!! Damn right per her. I said something to the tune of "u r the one leaving" and she went a bit bonkers. "I am leaving becasue of you....you killed my heart and ignored me for years etc...".
As a follow on, not sure where I go from here?
Like some of the other stories here, we are getting to the finish line and getting our lawyers.
In PA, there is no legal separation and the big D is rather a quick process.....really 4-5 months. During that time we will probably be living together most of the time unless I can get her to move out as I want to stay in the house for another year so my daughter can at least stay in the same school . This part will be a battle i suspect as she may want to stay in the house. My 'tude is you are the one leaving, so then leave.
It will cost me dearly but I am only looking out for my daugher and me right now. I am so worried about my 6yr old daughter...she will be crushed. I pray she doesnt resent me....so worried abut this as she is the light of my life.
And she can't afford to keep the 2 dogs so I will have to and I travel. how will i manage that? it will cost a bundle for dog sitters....
Ugh...life was so simple a few years ago....where is my time machine.
"I am leaving becasue of you....you killed my heart and ignored me for years etc...".
This does hold some truth? These are the types of comments that should make you evaluate your part that got you to this point.
I get letting the emotions out and getting your jabs in. Been there, done that. Will that get you closer to your goal, or further away?
Is arguing with your W same old, same old? Possible 180 opportunity here. When you argue with her, it reinforces her decision.
Just some food for thought.
[quote=rich4j] "I am leaving becasue of you....you killed my heart and ignored me for years etc...".
This does hold some truth? These are the types of comments that should make you evaluate your part that got you to this point.
LITB-I definitely own alot of the above but it is a 2 way street. There were many reasons I withdrew and while I have gotten to understand this over the last few months with talking with a therapist, the realization came too late. Some of the withdrawal reasons were based on things she did.
We were about to try EFT therapy when she bailed.
I definitely regressed in the discussion...only didnt whine/beg but did probably help reinforce her thinking. How would I do a 180 on this? "you are right, I know this all makes you feel terrible." Hard to think that quick on my feet when emotions are flying
Some of the withdrawal reasons were based on things she did.
Can you elaborate on what she did that caused withdrawal? The drinking? It probably doesn't matter, because you won't have an opportunity to save your M by playing the blame game. It is up to you to take the lead.
How can you change the dynamics of your sitch? It is like a math equation. If one part of the equation changes, the product in turn will change. YOU have to be the change.
I definitely regressed in the discussion...only didnt whine/beg but did probably help reinforce her thinking. How would I do a 180 on this? "you are right, I know this all makes you feel terrible." Hard to think that quick on my feet when emotions are flying
You would do a 180 by NOT arguing with her. When you argue with her, you are pouring fuel on her desire to leave.
When you are having a calm convo with her, then you have the opportunity to validate her feelings. EXAMPLE:"I can see why you would feel that way. I would do things differently if I could."
It takes practice and being cognizant of your behavior.
LITB thx again for your support
Really Really struggling right now as it seems too real that we are now getting the pieces togehter for a divorce. Trying my best to not go backwards but she mentioned during this entire process that she would have a nervous breakdown if we tried to patch things up and I went back to my prior self that I was the last few years. It's where I gleaned some hope she would open back up that door but it is shut.
I am not sure how the dynamics can change?
We have to sit down again this weekend (we will be snowed in..storm going and will be stuck together) to discuss the pieces of the divorce as I met with a lawyer today and so has she.
Perhaps that is the situation I can be calm and that I want to work through this so everyone is taken care of etc....
The reality of what I want to say is that "we didn't really give this a shot at fixing things....how can you walk away now without putting the effort into counseling so we can maybe come out the other side" stronger?
I know that is dream land.
But I just struggle with being the calm guy who walks through how we can split up our life. How is that going to help?
I hear you wanting to say those things to her. Problem is in their minds they have exhausted ways to fix and make things better. Maybe we missed it or maybe it didnt happen. At this point it can only be them realizing that there is more effort to be made.
Suxx!
Really Really struggling right now as it seems too real that we are now getting the pieces togehter for a divorce.
The divorce itself is just a piece of paper. All it really does is change how you file your taxes. Its not like if I made you divorced RIGHT THIS SECOND, that it would really change how you live your life, right?
Trying my best to not go backwards but she mentioned during this entire process that she would have a nervous breakdown if we tried to patch things up and I went back to my prior self that I was the last few years. It's where I gleaned some hope she would open back up that door but it is shut.
I am not sure how the dynamics can change?
We have to sit down again this weekend (we will be snowed in..storm going and will be stuck together) to discuss the pieces of the divorce as I met with a lawyer today and so has she.
Perhaps that is the situation I can be calm and that I want to work through this so everyone is taken care of etc....
Calm, yes. Not sure Id make any grand statements of fair and such.
The reality of what I want to say is that "we didn't really give this a shot at fixing things....how can you walk away now without putting the effort into counseling so we can maybe come out the other side" stronger?
She will say: "Im sorry, but you missed your chance. I spent XXX years trying to fix things, but you werent interested. And now Im not interested anymore."
I know that is dream land.
But I just struggle with being the calm guy who walks through how we can split up our life. How is that going to help?
What do you propose to do or say instead?
A- you are spot on with the I spent xx years (2+) and not intersted anymore. Any suggestions on this?????
But I just struggle with being the calm guy who walks through how we can split up our life. How is that going to help?
What do you propose to do or say instead?[/quote]
Not really sure yet. Thinking that I want all of us to be happy. She thinks this path will make her happy and I can understand how upsetting this is for her and she is feeling this is the right decision.
I don't know where to go on this except that I do truly believe that we didn't invest the time in fixing our relationship...but she is on the other side saying we have. Open for suggestions or advice right now as I am lost???
I don't know where to go on this except that I do truly believe that we didn't invest the time in fixing our relationship...but she is on the other side saying we have. Open for suggestions or advice right now as I am lost???
I'll say it again, the change begins with YOU!! She isn't going to follow, if you don't take the lead by making the changes within yourself. You are stuck in the right here and right now. You will have more influence in the outcome than you can see right now.
Why is she going to believe anything you say or do right now?
What will make her think that things can be different?
What have you showed her is different from before?
Are any changes you have made thus far genuine, or just a way to get her to reconsider?
Do you listen? Did you listen to her when she complained?
The reason I ask, is because I am not sure you are hearing what we are telling you. We are giving you solid advice, but...yes, but it doesn't seem to be getting through.
You have asked if anyone has had lawyers, filed, etc and come out the other side together. Yeah, I've been there, done that. The legal part got extremely ugly. My W lived 1100 miles away. The judge ordered me to send our kids to her, because I let fear cloud my choices. Screw that. Lessons learned the hard way.
People here tried to warn me, but I knew better. Like you, I thought it was over. And it was. My M was dead. It wasn't working. In the process I found myself. I had an awakening, because I lost life as I knew it.
When I changed and lived my life independent of my W, my situation shifted. I let her back in too easy the first time, because she didn't do any of the work. Back to square one with her. This time I was better prepared on how to handle the situation.
You have to trust the process. Takes one step at a time.
I hear you loud and clear rich4j. I feel the same way as you and my W would agree with your W regarding fixing the M. Can't speak for your W, but my W has built a big wall against me to protect herself from emotional pain she perceives came from me. All I can do is give her time and space. Avoiding arguments also seems to help.. Probably not what you'd like to hear but there's not a lot you can do except make things worse. It's not what I want for my M, but something I am beginning to realize that I must accept. Be well and good luck.
A- you are spot on with the I spent xx years (2+) and not interested anymore. Any suggestions on this?????
Not starting the conversation in the first place? You cant argue with her about that - whos to say she didnt "try everything"? And nothing you do or say is going to make her be interested. So theres not really a response out there.But I just struggle with being the calm guy who walks through how we can split up our life. How is that going to help?
What do you propose to do or say instead?
Not really sure yet. Thinking that I want all of us to be happy.
and she will respond with "I cant be happy with you". Then what?She thinks this path will make her happy and I can understand how upsetting this is for her and she is feeling this is the right decision.
So you want her to forego HER happiness so that...you can be happy?I don't know where to go on this except that I do truly believe that we didn't invest the time in fixing our relationship...but she is on the other side saying we have.
Exactly. You see the world as red. She sees it as blue. How can you possibly convince her that she's wrong? Just saying "it's red" over and over again? Open for suggestions or advice right now as I am lost???
Start over with a beginner's mind.
Follow the steps in the book.
thx g8r, Azzork LITB for the responses
Its strange but this board is the only thing right now helping me out. Only one friend and my brother/wife know the situation and they are helpful but not from this point of view
I do need to wipe the slate clean and start fresh. I can't keep regressing into "what if, what if stuff".
LITB-not sure how you did what you did but man I would like to drink a beer with you! appreciate the push
Now...in the DR book, much is about fixing your marriage before you have gotten to the D doorstep except the Last Resort TEchnique. any other chapters or focus areas I should re-read?
Would also like anyone's experience on the board in handling WHO MOVES OUT?
I know every situation is different/finances play into things.
But for us, we moved into this old house in a great neighborhood last year. In fact, were about to do a major upgrade to it but put on hold due to some permits...thank god! We would have been doing this and getting divorced!
My daughter loves the neighborhood and kids and I want to be as least disruptive as possible. I have dogs also that she wants me to keep as she won't be able to afford. Her school year finishes in June but we can't both stay in the house together until then...it will kill us.
NET is I want to stay, keep the dogs somehow...not sure how I can manage this but will need to juggle dog sitters and have her commit to having them on weekends when I am not around.
I know SHE will want to stay for a while and figure it out after that....
To me, she is the WAW and she should keep walking. I know it will result in conflict and could hurt negotiationg the D, but it is something I think I NEED TO KEEP moving forward.
Thoughts?
Hey Rich,
Thanks for your kind words. Honestly, I am no different than anyone else on this board. I commend anyone trying to save their M/R. This isn't for the faint of heart.
As for moving out, do NOT leave the family home. I don't care what your W says. It will not be easy, so you will just have to suk it up.
From a legal standpoint: Stay in the family home, and make sure you have nothing less than shared custody(50/50) of your daughter. Do NOT, I repeat do NOT allow your W to leave the state with your D.
I agree with Libt dont move out of the house. If you have joint credit cards you will be both responsible for any debts 50/50. Keep and eye on bank accounts also for major withdrawals.
I lived with ex for over 1.5 years after bd. it will be a very hard experience. Do your best to keep the peace.
thx folks
Not moving out...got a lawyer and got good advice. We are going to try to be civil but she is a hot head and suspect things won't end up in mediation unless we can discuss reasonably. Lawyer also gave some good advice on current spending as she needs to get her own account etc....but that is the finance stuff.
She is not moving my daughter anywhere.
I have been on the road for 2 days for work and it is much easier to DB with no calls or text's unless its about the daughter.
My WAW is so wrapped up in her new work venture that she has no idea about anythign else going on...even our daugther. Rushed out of town on a whim while I was away for a work meeting that came up quickly and had neighbors /babysitter take care of her. Had to call me to ask about it which I was glad she did but totally crazy as I would not have done what she did....but...we are different.
hard to get home except for seeing my daughters smiling face but WHEN DOES THAT part get easier? I am doing better distancing my heart from my WAW but I can't bear to see my daughters face and how she loves us TOGETHER. The kid is resilent stuff doesnt fly with me....she will be crushed
W asks me after being in the house for 1 hour if I talked with my lawyer and have all the financial info ready to get filled out so she can move this forward.
She has divorce in her sights and can't run any faster. Painful....but i am smiling, hugging my daughter and dogs and being peaceful. All I can do right now...
Wife is sick and came home from trip and really only helped daughter with homework and helping out with dogs
So she was visibly upset that I wasn't all over her about "are you ok and can I help you "?
I kind of felt bad and had to bolt very early this am for work
Natural instinct is for me to text her to see if she is ok and needs anything for being sick ?
For the DB experts. Is this not what I should be doing ? It's hard to ignore someone u still love who is sick but trying to stay on course
Natural instinct is for me to text her to see if she is ok and needs anything for being sick ?
For the DB experts. Is this not what I should be doing ? It's hard to ignore someone u still love who is sick but trying to stay on course
If you got fired from your job and a week later your manager got sick, would you bring him soup at the office?
You might if you wanted your job back.
NYGal...very funny..I needed a laugh this am as my WAW is being brutal and killing me with trips she is taking ....hope you don't get too much snow this weekend..I am in philly and we are supposed to get hit hard.
You might if you wanted your job back.
I know once I got fired from my job, my boss wouldnt hire me back because I brought her soup. How does that make me a better employee? I have a good personal relationship with my boss; if I was fired, it would be because of failures to perform. Sucking up to my ex-boss wouldnt change her mind about my job skills.
Dont do it. It will be seen as complete pursuit. "You dont think I can handle myself on my own?"
It is pursuit. Unless she is incapable of taking care of herself, best to stay out of the way.
She'll want to rehire you after you have moved on to owning your own business or when you have a new job.
Thanks for the job analogies...I backed off.
I am in the tornado right now of "what weekends are you going away and what weekends am I " so we don't need to spend time togehter. I know many here have had their relationship hit the rocks and work there way back or not.
And the finance discussions have started. [censored] to be and feel so final but i have to keep DB'ing.
Has anyone had a W or H that is actually the walk away and they seemed pissed? I should be the one pissed!!! She keeps bringing up little things around the house that I need to do, this and that.....seems angry. I would think since she is checked out she wouldnt give a damn.
I want to sleep and wake up with a new life.
And the finance discussions have started. [censored] to be and feel so final but i have to keep DB'ing.
It was final as soon as BD. You just werent ready to start accepting that as truth. This is just ironing out the details.
Has anyone had a W or H that is actually the walk away and they seemed pissed? I should be the one pissed!!!
Of course they are pissed. Theyre like a caged animal waiting to be set free! And you are the guy standing there keeping the cage closed. Theres really nothing you can do but open the door and let them experience life, and realize that what they have right now isnt so bad.
I want to sleep and wake up with a new life.
So do it! Make your life into the one you want!
Probably time to start setting some boundaries, man. She's running all over you.
You two don't need to figure out the finances, that's what she's paying a lawyer to do, right? so let him do his job. If she's curious, she can figure it out on her own. For God's sake don't help her!
You are the one being left, what right does she have to demand anything from you around the house? focus on you and your D.
If she wants to get confrontational, you have every right to not engage and walk away, so do it.
Don't let her get "snippy" with you. You tell her "I don't let people talk to me that way, and I won't let you talk to me that way, either." then you walk away.
Let her be pissed off. She isn't respecting you in this process AT ALL. You literally owe her nothing. That doesn't mean you meet fire with fire, though. let her burn herself to the ground.
FYI,
I'm not saying there is or isn't an A, but she may be looking to move quickly for a reason.
FYI2: you're from PA, right? PA is a "fault-based" State, which means PA will give it weight to an Affair in D cases, which in turn, can be used as leverage for you if you are concerned with your finances.
Many say not to snoop, but in this case, you may be protecting yourself.
Would she talk to her friends as she is talking to you? No.
Then tell her.
Don't talk to me like I'm crap on your shoe, you wouldn't talk to any of your friends like that, so don't do it with me. Then walk away.