You can do this, just focus on you first and foremost. Don't employ any revenge tactics or attitudes. Just focus on you and DBing you will do great. It is life altering once you fully committ to the philosophy.
Thanks RysinMn.
I am focusing on me and I do not use revenge tactics or spite. That is not in my nature.
I see how DB'ing can prevent me from getting in this situation in the future. For my current situation though, I am not sure what else I can do to bust this up. I can count on one hand our interactions in the last 4 or so months. I have no idea where her head is and I hate this limbo state. I know, I know it doesn't matter. In fact, it might be better this way because I can't misinterpret signs as positive that I don't even see. Without any info, I think I can only view the past 4 months in a negative way in terms of where her head is.
I am tired from the last 16 years of dealing with this over and over. For most of that, we have not been married, but it is still the same deal. If I really focus on myself, then I have to ask is this something I want to continue with in the future? Even if we do reconcile, the chances of this happening again are pretty high. I don't know. No decisions on my part have been made yet, but I am leaning more and more towards ending this.
I was sitting at a store today playing with my phone and came upon a text from WW's best friend. This was from right after she moved out, months ago, before I had found this site. Anyway, there was a lot of stuff on there but this line got to me a bit:
"I know she feels terrible and guilty and she knows that people probably don't like her for the decision shes made, and she thinks you will be an amazing husband for someone someday...."
The thing that got to me was the last line. Since I have been about 12, my dream was to be an amazing husband........ for her. Everything else was second. I read that line and actually had a tear well up. First time I have a head a tear since before she moved out. The reaction caught me by surprise. I had that dream and then lost it. I never gave anyone else a chance for the past 22ish years.
Hi Pinn! Wanted to stop by- haven't heard many updates from you. Hope you're doing well. How are things going?
Thanks for stopping in Feyth. Sometimes I find that posting and stopping by here too much makes it harder for me to detach. I am always relating everyone elses situation to my own which makes me think about WW.
My wife has initiated contact with me 3 times in about 4.5 months. That's it. I can't even count 2 of those (1 was to say thanks for flowers for her grandfathers funeral and the other was for an electric bill thing). So 1 time in 4.5 months. Ouch! Not a single phone call though I haven't called her either. That was really bothering me last night for some reason. Just nothing positive going on here.
I think I am going to initiate D proceedings come the new year. This is pointless. I do want to go with a joint petition though the more I look into it. No back and forth, let's just agree and get it done. I want to be the 'best husband' for some lucky lady. I can do it. I am looking forward to 2016.
On the plus side had killer seats for a Bruins (hockey) game this weekend with a buddy. Great time. And my nieces sent me a video text saying that they missed me. Really made my day. I really miss them, I love them a lot.
Love hockey! I used to dance for hockey teams many years ago (yup directly on the ice) did a few games back east for some minor league teams in your neck of the woods, too. Glad you had fun at the game.
Re: d proceedings- I have no advice as I am such a newb, but one thing that always rings out to me is what others say here- if you don't want a d, why file for one? Then again, only you know what is right for you.
Coming to this board is hard. I get jealous when I see other spouses reaching out... Even those who get the random "I miss you".... I haven't gotten that at all and it's hard because I find myself comparing my sitch to those here.... Definitely not an appropriate thing to do!
Glad you got a nice video text from your nieces. I'm sure that was a boost!
wow ice girl huh... that's impressive. I might have been starring at you at one of those minor league games back in the day. I love hockey, played all my life (lots of broken bones!). It is a GAL activity for me.
I read your last few posts on your thread and I also know people in really devastating spots. Whenever I get real down, I think of them. I am sure they would change spots with me in a second. It does help to think that way. Makes me realize things could be a lot worse.
It is hard not to compare my situation to others on here. I know it is not healthy, but still very difficult not to. Ah well... as time passes things get easier.
Everyone says that about the D proceedings. I do not want it but there has to be a time to throw in the towel. Right now, WW gets all the benefits of being divorced without actually being divorced. She can do whatever she wants without any guilt. Doesn't seem very fair to me. I think (mind reading I know) that she does not bring it up because it would be an uncomfortable situation for her. She is fine they way things are. As things were ending, I asked her, why didn't you bring up these issues? I am pretty easy to talk to. She said because it made her uncomfortable.... gee... thanks a lot.
Time will make things easier. Given enough you will begin to see things much clearer than you did in the first weeks since BD. I know I have gone through this. I still fall back to the same feelings I initially had every now and then but the strength of the emotions tied to the feelings slowly- very very slowly- fade.
I think we all compare our sitchs. As unique to our own experience ours may be there is certain commonality. We are hurt. Broken. Distraught. Missing. Name it. We are also healing. Learning. Growing. Discovering ourselves anew.
I find it interesting the words used by WW and WH. There is an old thread describing a script. The words used and reasons given are common enough to think they all read the same book before BD.
There are several here who like me believed our WSs left for someone much better than we were at the time of BD. Physically. Emotionally. I have given up commitment to these concerns. They did not help my progress and held back my urge to become a better me. Compare and contrast as we like it does not change the fact that we are individuals. And as individuals we have positive and negative sides to offer.
Hang in there. Give it all you can. Give it all you want. The day might come when you believe you have given it all. Who knows how far down the road that day might be. It might come after D for some. I know this sounds out of place. But we did not need a signature on a dotted line to fall in love after all.
Besides DB is not just for R. It is more than that. It is for ourselves and our individual futures. Is this a sad thought? Sure it can be. But I also think it is encouraging.
thanks 2point. I agree DB'ing is for ourselves as much as our relationship.
For me, Jan 1st is it. I am going to push D proceedings starting on that day. She has shown no interest in me in 5 months. Not a single thing. She must be pretty sure of her decision. Probably time to accept this and move on. Be interesting to see how this goes. I wish it was tomorrow in a lot of ways but I want to wait until after the holidays.
Buddy,
you are doing waaaaaaaaay too much mindreading. Waytoo much. And instead of moving on you should use phrase move forward, because IMO you are not ready to move on yet (if by moving on you mean next R).
Stay strong buddy...
Thanks Vap.
I am mind reading a bit but also looking at the cold hard facts of the situation.
1. I got fired 6 months, she moved out 5 months ago. She has had 5 full months to see exactly what life is without me (again btw). I have not interfered.
2. Since she moved out, she has initiated contact with me exactly 3 times. 3 times Vap! 2 of those times were utterly meaningless and the 3rd was in response to something I had mentioned to her two weeks before hand. This has really been bothering me lately.
3. Haven't seen her since she moved out.
It is not good. I try DB'ing by working on myself. I think I do OK, I've come a long way. The past experience helps too. I can't do any DB'ing in regards to my wife, I never have the chance. I am just dark and that is it.
I see this ending in 1 of 3 ways.
1. we eventually get divorced anyway --> better to end it now
2. we get back together but end up in the same spot and get divorced later --> better to end it now
3. we fight through and live happily ever after --> mistake to get divorced
Which one of these is least likely?
I say move on because that is what I meant. I can't move on, until this is over. So I think I should start now so I can be ready to move on in say six months when everything would be final. I want to sell the house, I do not want to do that until things are final.
I don't see what the alternative is to moving this process along. What is it? I am still married, but I am not. It's frustrating. My friends are asking me what the heck I am waiting for and I don't have an answer. They say I have never seen what is out there, I have given her the past 16 years even when she got to test the waters. I think I am half detached but do not see how I can become fully detached until she is more or less completely out of my life.
I want to be in a very different place at the end of 2016 compared to the end of 2015. Know what I mean? I am trying to figure out the best way to get there.
I hear you buddy...
Don't be too hard on yourself. The situation [censored], like a lot. I know. I think you are at a turning point, where the things will start to look up.
As long as there is love in your heart, there is hope. But you do have to work on yourself. Leave her be, let her be, heal now, improve to pinn 2.0, there is sooooooo much progress that is within your reach. You can finally become the man you wanted to be. Live now, breate, learn to love yourself again, learn to love life, feel the rain, find the inner child again. Feel how rain feel on your skin, go out in snow and try catching flakes with your tongue...
Stay strong buddy, you are not alone in this pot of crap...
Thanks Vap. I really appreciate the comments. I am working on me in a lot of ways. I identified a lot of problem areas and am working on making changes. I like what I have seen.
I let her be. I don't bother her. She is doing whatever she wants with zero interference from me, no issues there. I don't pry, I don't spy. No idea what she is up to. Much easier that way. She should have a pretty damn good idea at this point what she wants (IMO of course/ some mind reading).
I had been doing well at doing some of those things you mentioned. Maybe I have backslid the past few weeks. Maybe it is the holidays, I don't know.
All I can think about lately is getting this process started. She has decided multiple times that I am not right for her. There has to be a time when I say enough is enough. I did that once already and after a year she still managed to maneuver herself back in (pre-marriage but it is the same deal as now).
Are you saying that you think it is a bad idea for me to start moving this along come the new year?
As long as there is love in your heart, there is hope.
That is a dangerous thing right there. That is partly why I am in this mess right now. I didn't have to be here, I basically choose it. I will always have love for her, we grew up together. It's not going away. The hope has to go away, I think it is almost.
Thanks again Vapo
You know Pinn, the hardest choice is figuring out if you really want to wait around, and if so why? Are the reasons to hold on based on fear, or on the fact there really is a relationship to save. We put a lot of pressure on ourselves about love, committment, loyalty, etc. We should be loyal to ourselves and take care of ourselves first.
People show us who they are by their actions all the time, shouldn't we believe them? Or do we see the romanticized version of them we want to see?
You can do a 180, go dark, or try little things like one way texts every once in a while. Or you can move forward and build a new life. She could want to join it or not. I agree with your deadline. We have to have a line in the sand or we might find ourselves still sitting around waiting years from now.
Hi Pinn,
I get why you are thinking the way you are- I really do. I would never tell you what to do ( that's not my style) but it hasn't even been a year yet. Not that there's a time stamp on any of this other than our self imposed ones... But it's very soon. follow your heart- if you want to be divorced- go get divorced, but if not, there's no harm in just sitting still for a bit more and working on yourself. Will it make the odds of r any better??? Who knows? Maybe not? One thing for certain, Younwill be better off continuing doing the 180s and gal, etc. Are you just wanting to file because you feel you can't move on/ forward without it?
Thanks Flight. Always good to see your posts. One of the hardest things for me, is that once this over, everything is over. I can't talk to her again. Besides my wife, she is a life long friend who I love very much.
Hey Feyth. Thanks for posting. I love chicken btw ;-).
I am seriously thinking about bringing this situation to a head (pulp fiction what?) because....
1. I am tired. I am so tired. This is the third time I have gone through this plus a bunch of smaller things that have happened over the years. Every time it is the same thing. She decides she doesn't love me for a few months to a few years. Even if we got back together, how could I possibly get that out of my mind? I would be waiting for the next BD.
2. I cannot imagine waiting a full year. I want to be in a much better spot at the end of 2016. I def cannot move on until this is settled. If it is settled in 6 months, then I would need what... another 6 or so months to be ready to move on. I am not comfortable with the situation as it is at the moment.
3. I want a family. I am not getting any younger. The sooner I move on the better.
4. She has made her position pretty clear based on her actions. How long can I wait? I have had no positive signs... not a one. I can work on myself and GAL until the cows come home but I cannot completely move forward until this is settled. It will be hanging over my head. I can't just pretend we aren't married know what I mean?
5. I still live in the house we picked together in the town she grew up in and 1 town over from my home town. She moved 30 miles away. I am the one who gets stuck running into minor acquaintances every where. I hate that. To move forward, I should move. I don't think it would be smart financially to move until this is settled.
So that is just some of the reasons. I don't know, I'll think about it more.
WW had some shutterfly stuff sent to the house accidentally. I dropped it off at her parents house along with some gifts for the nieces today.
She texted me soon there after saying thanks for bringing that stuff over and to tell me that something else would be coming from shutterfly that is a gift for her sis.
I deleted it and didn't respond. Not sure if I should have responded or not, but I am tired of her mail and stuff coming here. That text did not make me feel good. That's what it takes to hear from you? whatever.
On the bright side, it was good seeing her mom and sis for a bit. I miss that whole family. Now let's see if this Star Wars movie is all its cracked up to be.
Hi Pinn. It is so tough because this is a patter. I hear you about wondering now if you did get back together how to ever not be looking over your shoulder all the time. I think I would. It is so easy being the impationed observer to just say, "man, what are you thinking. There are better things ahead!" but for the person living with the emotions? A whole 'nother ball game, eh?
I do know that getting your own life and moving on is the key because you can A. Be happy alone once you go through the withdrawal and B. If there is a chance for R, that is one way it happens. I was thinking of a quote I made up in my head, "A funny thing happened while trying to reconcile, I fell in love with myself"
Thanks flight as always. Yea it's funny... my friends just don't get it. Maybe one day they will. They think I can just call it quits so easy. Sometimes they are very convincing, especially with no family involved. But it is a whole nother ball game for me. If they are in the same spot one day, I'll understand.
I am so frustrated with my WW today. Thank god I got to play some hockey tonight. Best thing about playing is that my mind cannot be anywhere else. It's the best. Wish I could play 3-4 hours like back in the day. It was my drug to get over her way back when. Caught a nasty elbow to the head in the last minute... i liked it.
I have not gotten as many texts in the past 5 freaking months as I did today over her packages that she had sent to my house. Didn't even ask about me. Just a thanks for bringing her stuff to her parents and a note about the two other packages coming tomorrow... then another note about the packages... then another note... then a why are you not responding to me followed by another note about her packages. I finally said... don't worry about your packages... I am on the look out.
I am ready for a new year.
Had one of the first what I would call interesting interactions with my wife today in months. Wonder if you folks will find it interesting (not major but interesting). I haven't seen her and have had minimal contact with her for 5 months.
So after the barrage of txts yesterday about her package I get this in reference to gifts I got the nieces:
"That was nice of you to get the kids gifts. How come you didn't ask me though? Why did you ask my sister?"
I didn't know what this meant at first because I didn't ask her sister for suggestions, I already knew what I to get them. Then I remembered that I had asked her sister to make sure she didn't mind if I got them something. Since I didn't remember right away what I had asked her sister I responded with:
"huh?? I don't know I guess...
She said "I was just asking why you asked my sister and not me... I feel like you have me blocked and keep in contact with everybody else"
I said, "You are not blocked... you can get in touch with me when ever you want".
Then nothing after that. Nothing major but I found it interesting. I don't really keep in contact with everyone else. Her best friend texts me once in a while. I talk to her parents about once a month or so. I do have her blocked on social media but that is necessary. But she is not blocked from calling, texts or email. We'll see how the next few days go.
WW has become quite the little chatter box the past 3 days. I still discount most of it because it was related to her dumb package. But there are little things in there like the convo above from yesterday.
This morning she texted me again about her package. I was aggravated at first because there was no... good morning or how are you or anything... it just said "let me know if you want my parents to pick up that package of if you want to drop it off". I was going to say something like... ya know... a how are you or good morning would be nice once in a while. But I bit my tongue and cooled off a bit... and replied with "good morning! I'll drop it off later"
Not what I really wanted to say, but I think that was good. She responded with some bla bla bla... but ended with this... "Are you looking forward to your lobster dinner tonight??"
Big deal right. But this was a question to keep the convo going a bit. This was actually on my list of 'sign posts' I posted a while back. My 'sign posts' are very basic given the situation... but the first two have been hit now.
I responded with "Of course! Gotta go but I hope you have a great time at your sisters tonight. Give the girls a hug for me"
Nothing to get excited about or anything... but given my situation at least it is something.
1. I got fired 6 months, she moved out 5 months ago. She has had 5 full months to see exactly what life is without me (again btw). I have not interfered.
Is anyone enabling her to live this lifestyle outside her M? Are her parents giving her financial and emotional support?
The more support she has, and the less consequences she has........the longer it may take before she begins to yearn for her former life with you. At this time, she's experiencing what she wanted, supposedly.
I have seen couples separated two years before getting back together. It took Mr. Bond's W four years to get through her process. In comparison, 5 months isn't very long. You know how long you can continue, however, I would caution you to not place weight of a "new year" on the deciding scales.
I understand you are very tired, and emotionally worn out. Personally, I would be pretty aggravated at the whole ordeal, but let me remind you that getting D is not necessarily the medicine for what hurts you. Be sure of yourself and examine your reasons closely.
I see a lot of men who have this same mindset, so maybe it's a "man thing", IDK. They feel that they can't let go and move forward unless they get a D, or they think getting a D will
make them move on.
MWD suggests you do one final step before calling it quits. She refers to it as the last resort after the LRT. To me, it is the true picture of going dark. In other words, go ahead with your life as if you will never see her again. Now, everyone has their personal opinions about dating, so you do however your beliefs dictate. Live your life as if the M is over, b/c this one is.
Some people say M is just a piece of paper. If so, then divorce is on the other side of that same piece of paper.
Anyway, just take this advice for whatever it's worth.
Thanks Sandi.
I doubt she is getting help financially. She can afford to be on her own. I am sure her life was more comfortable being with me, but she should be doing OK. My wife would never take money from them... not sure if WW would though (I don't think so but ya never know).
Emotionally, I mean I guess I am not sure. She is their daughter and they are not the type to question something like this. They are more of the go with the flow type. Not sure I can change anything in regards to that.
Thanks for the advice on calling it quits. It is a hard thing and I am glad I am taking my time and not doing anything on a whim. The previous history is what is making this harder. The fear of this just happening again in the future makes me want to give up. That would be a huge thing for both of us to deal with.
I remember reading about the last resort after the last resort. Maybe that would be an option. I would want to date in that phase though and I am not sure I am comfortable doing that while still technically married even though the marriage is over. Know what I mean? That is a weird one.
Given the actions of the past few days, it looks like I will sit back and watch for a bit longer. I won't be doing anything right away in the new year (though I do want to sell this house!). We'll see what happens. Thanks again
I did get a merry christmas text from my WW. Nothing major but she has contacted me for one reason or another for 4 straight days now. That has not happened since she moved out... maybe not since before BD actually, can't remember.
It is actually a weird spot to be in for me. Not sure how to react or what I should do now. I think the best thing to do is just more of the same. See if this continues and how much is just holiday related. I feel like I have handled everything really well the past four days. I have been able apply a bit of what I have been taught here finally. No questions, no pursuing, no expectations. I have not brought up an relationship issues since August or so I think. I want her to be able to talk to me without the fear of me bringing that stuff up.
Let's see what happens this week.
Merry Christmas all!
Pinn, keep doing what you've been doing. The holidays bring out emotions and sentimentalism in people. The real test will be if she continues making contact when the holidays are over. I don't mean to rain on your hope! Just keep to your original plan and be patient and no expectations.
I hope you had a great Christmas, and I think it was very sweet of you to get gifts for your nieces.
Just smile say thank you that's nice enough.
If you can validate.
Pleasant neighbour and no expectation.
As in oh yes I noticed you had green fly on the roses,that's tough. Have a nice day.
Yes, lovely weather I see you cleaning your windows, hard work. Must move along.
Had a good Xmas? Yes? Me too!
Light breezy and no expectation.
V
Thanks fo and V. No hope to rain on.... no expectations. I doubt this continues past the holidays and I certainly will not push it but it was a nice change of pace after 5 months of nada.
No expectations means no expectations.
That's bad expectations as well as good. So won't go past the hols is a bad expectation. We always assume no expectations means good things but it covers the whole spectrum.
It means observing, a little like David Attenburgh does with wild life.
V
oh I understand....Thanks V.... wow that is actually a tough thing to wrap my head around now that I think about it. I actually always have expectations, most of the time they side on the negative and I had been thinking that was 'no expectations' but it is clearly not.
That short post above was actually very eye opening for me. Thank you very much. This is something that I need to work on which means I am still too attached... interesting. Just let it flow, observing. I can get there.
Hi P,
If I may share some thoughts...
I would ask you to be cautious if you decide to start dating. Stop gap dating is dangerous as emotions are raw. I believe one should only date in our situation when we are prepared to go the distance with a new partner. If that is the case then you transfer DB from your XW to your new partner. Otherwise why date if you have no intention on D. Just be sure if you drop the rope that should w reach out you not react on instinct and go running back but evaluate what you want and not her.
Oh and btw in that situation you become a sort of WABF. See how complicated it is?
Just make sure it is worth it.
As for how to react with her texts, I am maybe a little radical. If my W has left 5 months ago, has a possible OM and reaches out to me with txt messages I am pro short replies. I mean really short.
I find it hard to differentiate between a w interested in what is happening with her H because she cares, to one just trying to make things smooth for her own concscious to one keeping her H on a string as a plan B. There are other actions and events as well as your own gut feeling when interacting that could determine this but in all honesty if in 5 months you only get txt with little to no calls then my guess is you are not on her shopping list.
I do not know your full situation but sometimes our happiness and W are going in opposite directions and we have to let go of one.
Peace
Max
Thanks Max! Of course you may share some thoughts.
I agree on the dating thing. What you mention is the test if I am ready or not. I feel like it will be hard to date while still 'married' which is one reason I am thinking about pushing for D. It would be easier for me with everything final.
There are other actions and events as well as your own gut feeling when interacting that could determine this but in all honesty if in 5 months you only get txt with little to no calls then my guess is you are not on her shopping list.
Max
I don't know how far back you read but this is exactly what I have been saying and the reason why I have been debating pushing for D. I have not gotten a single call (I haven't called her either). Until this week, she texted me first 3 times in 5 months and 2 of those I can't even count. But she has never mentioned D. So it has been very frustrating for me. Looking back though, I have done some things to show I was not interested in talking. I blocked her on all social media sites, ignored her bday and have done a pretty good job in not contacting her. One of her recent texts said "... i feel like you have me blocked...", that's not true... she can contact me when ever she wants. Maybe it is better this way. She has definitely been able to experience life without me.
W is a very kind person in general. One of the things I love about her. WW has an incredible ability to go cold and it is not just with me... I have experienced it in the past, seen it with her past boy friends and even with her friends.
Anyway, thanks for the advice. Stop by anytime!
There are other actions and events as well as your own gut feeling when interacting that could determine this but in all honesty if in 5 months you only get txt with little to no calls then my guess is you are not on her shopping list.
Max
I don't know how far back you read but this is exactly what I have been saying and the reason why I have been debating pushing for D.
Of course you aren't on her "shopping list" right now. But that doesn't mean you always won't be. If your goal is to be married to your wife, then I don't see how filing for D helps you achieve your goal.
In my opinion, continue forward until your goals change.
Thanks Az for stopping by.
What if my goal is to have a fulfilling, loving, successful and happy marriage? This is my actual goal. I would prefer to have that with my wife but it does not have to be.
I'll give it some more time.
Pinn
I think you are still too attached. Haven't dropped the rope, you will know when you do.
It will mean you are no longer influenced by WW, her actions no longer cause you emotional reactions. You will observe, good if x or if y. Positive or negative.
Letting go does not mean ceasing to stand or not wanting a new R with your WW. It means you are detached whatever the outcome.
Dating for effect on WW won't make you feel good, however dating and being up front with another is ok in my book. I will only do this if I am D otherwise I feel like I am looking for an A, even if a EA. Won't help my D outcome either.
V
Pinn
I think you are still too attached. Haven't dropped the rope, you will know when you do.
V
Wish I could disagree with that, but I can't. One problem I am having is seeing myself being completely detached without being divorced. For me personally, it would be easier to completely detach if we were divorced. Some say it should not matter, but for me I think it would. I'll get there.
On the bright side, I crushed some PR's at the gym today :-).
For me personally, it would be easier to completely detach if we were divorced.
Interesting. I see several men with this mindset. Is that the same as getting divorced to make the pain stop, or to stop loving your W? What happens if you get a divorce and it doesn't force you into detaching?
Pinn, I have to agree with Sandi. Having recently signed the papers, it changes nothing inside me. Is it more real? Maybe. Will w get to see what its like without me? Thats still on me. I have to not be there for her now. Finality? Not really, because I want to restore my family and have my loving W back that I haven't seen in a couple of years.
So please don't think that those papers will make it stop hurting. That legal crap is just that. My vow was before God, family, and friends. Not lawyers.
Be well pinn. I had the same mindset a couple months ago. Wishing you the best
Sandi, Dday,
First thanks for the comments (of course!).
Here is the thing... I have been through this before (more than once btw), we were bf/gf at the time but it was the same deal. There is really no difference. I was able to completely let go once I cut all contact. I knew when that happened, she knew when that happened. That is when she came back.
I wouldn't say I am hurting badly right now. I *think* I am doing pretty well emotionally. She is seeing what life is like without me right now. Being divorced makes no difference there, she is living it now (probably why she is not pushing for the D). So what would be different for me? Right now, I know for a fact, that no matter what the future brings we still have to interact. I am lucky in a way that with no children, once we get divorced then I don't have to interact anymore. Once D is final, there is no more contact... ever (I'm serious). She would be a risk to any future relationship at that point. I know myself and I would be able to do this because of the past experiences I've had with her.
Getting divorced in itself obviously does not make any pain stop nor does it make me stop loving my wife. In fact, I will always love her. The pain has subsided enough now as it is. I would feel exactly the same post divorce. That's not it.
It does give me a jumping off point. I can say, look, that part of life is over, there were many good times in there, the ending sucked (again) and it is just not meant to be with her. How many times does she have to show you that? Now let's go find someone to be happy with from here on out. Let's do it.
That simply is not happening until everything is final. It is not like a flip of a switch and I am 100% detached the minute that paper is signed. But it would be a catalyst for sure. For me it is finality. I am not going through it again. Hope that makes some sense.
You are talking NC or going dark, NC for a long time. This isn't D.
Detachment isn't letting go either.
Pinn can I suggest a review of Detachment Pinn.
I am concerned that NC for you may not mean letting go or that you are not ready for that.
I understand this more than most important am NC since 2 May 2015, I mean NC and I have let go. I am moving D as fast as I can.
I will not be abused by WH again, although I have other issues with WH such as drink driving with his grandchildren in the car.
V
Thanks V. I will reread the detachment thread. I have read it but I have found I understand things better after a second or third pass through. I did have a 3 month NC stint.
I always like this scene from one of my favorite movies called Swingers.
Mike: Okay, so what if I don't want to give up on her?
Rob: You don't call.
Mike: But you said I don't call if I wanted to give up on her.
Rob: Right.
Mike: So I don't call either way?
Rob: Right.
Mike: So what's the difference?
Rob: There is no difference right now. See, Mike, the only difference between giving up and not giving up is if you take her back when she wants to come back. But you can't do anything to make her want to come back. In fact, you can only do stuff to make her not want to come back.
Mike: So the only difference is if I forget about her or just pretend to forget about her?
Rob: Right.
Mike: Well that [censored].
Rob: Yeah, it [censored].
Mike: So it's just like a retroactive decision, then? I mean I could, like, forget about her and then when she comes back make like I just pretended to forget about her?
Rob: Right. Although probably more likely the opposite.
Mike: What do you mean?
Rob: I mean at first you're going to pretend to forget about her, you'll not call her, I don't know, whatever... but then eventually, you really will forget about her.
Mike: Well what if she comes back first?
Rob: Mmmm... see, that's the thing, is somehow they know not to come back until you really forget.
Mike: There's the rub.
Rob: There's the rub.
Love it, love it, love it!
Thank you Pinn
--------------------------
Here is detachment from my Gamanon manual
Detachment is neither kind nor unkind.
It does not imply judgement or condemnation of the person or situation from which we are detaching.
Separating ourselves from the adverse effects of another person’s adiction or behaviour can be a means of detaching: this does not necessarily require physical separation.
Detachment can help us look at our situations realistically and objectively. Adiction is a family disease.
Living with the effects of someone else’s addiction is too devastating for most people to bear without help.
In our twelve step group we learn nothing we say or do can cause or stop someone else’s behaviour.
We are not responsible for another person’s disease, addiction, behaviour or recovery from it.
Detachment allows us to let go of our obsession with another’s behavior and begin to lead happier and more manageable lives, lives with dignity and rights, lives guided by a Power greater than ourselves.
We can still love the person without liking the behavior.
WE LEARN:
Not to suffer because of the actions or reactions of other people
Not to allow ourselves to be used or abused by others in the interest of another’s recovery •
Not to do for others what they can do for themselves •
Not to manipulate situations so others will eat, go to bed, get up, pay bills, be addicted or not addicted, or behave as we see fit. We allow the other their choices
Not to cover up for another’s mistakes or misdeeds
Not to create a crisis
Not to prevent a crisis if it is in the natural course of events
We let go of the outcome of our actions, we do that which is best for us whilst considering others.
V
I do love that movie!
Thanks for this post V. I have detached in one other situation in my life. My father is an alcoholic so that was tough for a while.
Detaching from my wife is very difficult as I am sure it is for anyone. I understand the concept but it is hard to implement. It is an emotional state rather than an action plan like no contact etc. I think no contact, in my case, still helps with detachment based on my passed experience. At least my wife helps me in the process and doesn't send many mixed signals. I'll have to find sandi's post on it as well.
I was pretty gung ho on pushing for the D come the first of the year but I guess I will give it a bit more time. I'll focus on myself and my goals for the new year for a bit. I guess I can look into selling the house without this being resolved. I can see if my wife's sudden change in her contact pattern was the result of the holidays or whether it is something different. I'll just sit back and observe for a bit.
A lot of things make sense if you are the child of an alcoholic, they absolutely do.
Have you read the Janet Woititz’s book, Adult Children Of Alcoholics?
She lists 13 characteristics of these children, commonalities that link. 10% of children live or have lived with at least one alcohol abusing parent and 3% are alcohol dependent. An unlucky half percent have two parents affected. (Figures from the FIX a website I subscribe to because of WH gambling addiction).
Truly shocking.
Damaging beyond belief, of course if the parent recovers and atones the irony is the children are more resilient not less.
Go figure.
The thirteen characteristics are
1. Adult children of alcoholics guess at what normal behavior is.
2. Adult children of alcoholics have difficulty following a project through from beginning to end.
3. Adult children of alcoholics lie when it would be just as easy to tell the truth.
4. Adult children of alcoholics judge themselves without mercy.
5. Adult children of alcoholics have difficulty having fun.
6. Adult children of alcoholics take themselves very seriously.
7. Adult children of alcoholics have difficulty with intimate relationships.
8. Adult children of alcoholics overreact to changes over which they have no control.
9. Adult children of alcoholics constantly seek approval and affirmation.
10. Adult children of alcoholics usually feel that they are different from other people.
11. Adult children of alcoholics are super responsible or super irresponsible.
12. Adult children of alcoholics are extremely loyal, even in the face of evidence that the loyalty is undeserved.
13. Adult children of alcoholics are impulsive. They tend to lock themselves into a course of action without giving serious consideration to alternative behaviors or possible consequences. This impulsively leads to confusion, self-loathing and loss of control over their environment. In addition, they spend an excessive amount of energy cleaning up the mess.
So do any of these apply to you?
What impact has this had on your life?
Any impact on your R?
Did dad ever recover or atone?
As always you can say I don't want to answer.
For the lurker amoung us these characteristics are said to apply to children of all addicts and abused children, those from care and child carers of HIV parents. It is very tough to be child in these circumstances. So this book is absolutely wonderful for help us have insight into behaviour. I am using the list for my PTSD recovery. I am not a child of this but a recovering abuse target.
V
Thanks V... not exactly what I was expecting to get into but I think this has affected my relationship. I am also reading No More Mr Nice Guy and everything is getting tied together.
First, my dad was not abusive or stumbling around all the time. He is alcohol dependent or a functional alcoholic I would say. In NMMNG they talk of boys wanting to be different than their fathers in this situation. For my brother, that means no alcohol, he won't touch the stuff. For me, I think it means having a better relationship with my partner. My parents marriage stinks. There is no affection, my dad really neglected my mom, and my mom, inturn showed little affection back and it became a sad cycle. My wife even mentioned that this might be an issue for me and I kind of agree (she has witnessed their relationship since she was 15, she knows). I desperately want a deep emotional connection with my wife or future partner. I just have never witnessed it so I have to develop the knowledge on my own. I believe this is the root of the issue currently with my wife and the specific things she mentions as being the problems (lack of chemistry/ passion etc) are the symptoms.
It is just hard watching him basically kill himself. This is what I have detached from. I cannot control it, I cannot stop it.
I don't mind answering these questions...
The thirteen characteristics are
1. Adult children of alcoholics guess at what normal behavior is.
maybe in some ways. I think my childhood was normal but I do not think my parents relationship was normal or healthy. That is what I grew up with and how I became wired. I want to change that. I do not want to be that way with my wife.
2. Adult children of alcoholics have difficulty following a project through from beginning to end.
I don't think this describes me
3. Adult children of alcoholics lie when it would be just as easy to tell the truth.
this is not me
4. Adult children of alcoholics judge themselves without mercy.
this is probably true. For my MBA, I took an objectivity course. Turns out my mental model is 'not being good enough' despite being very athletic, acing school and getting the highest marks in my reviews at work. I always think it is either undeserved or I could be better. I am sure this crept into my relationship particularly in the sex department. Low confidence there and my wife did not want to talk about it because it was uncomfortable for her and she thinks everything should just be natural.
5. Adult children of alcoholics have difficulty having fun.
I don't think this is true of me
6. Adult children of alcoholics take themselves very seriously.
this is true though I am getting better at this.
7. Adult children of alcoholics have difficulty with intimate relationships.
This is true. This is the one thing (I believe) my wife wants more than anything else. I need to figure out how to get to that level. I want it. My parents just do not have it.
8. Adult children of alcoholics overreact to changes over which they have no control.
I don't think this is true of me (in general I am talking, things to do with WW I may overreact)
9. Adult children of alcoholics constantly seek approval and affirmation.
maybe true
10. Adult children of alcoholics usually feel that they are different from other people.
no I don't feel that way
11. Adult children of alcoholics are super responsible or super irresponsible.
I am very responsible
12. Adult children of alcoholics are extremely loyal, even in the face of evidence that the loyalty is undeserved.
yes true
13. Adult children of alcoholics are impulsive. They tend to lock themselves into a course of action without giving serious consideration to alternative behaviors or possible consequences. This impulsively leads to confusion, self-loathing and loss of control over their environment. In addition, they spend an excessive amount of energy cleaning up the mess.
I don't think so but maybe
Did dad ever recover or atone?
nope he is still going strong although he does *seem* to be drinking less now but maybe he just hides it better. It was bad 2-3 years ago. He had quadruple by pass about 8 months ago so he had to stop drinking for a while. I told him it was a great time to quit.. didn't matter
For the lurker amoung us these characteristics are said to apply to children of all addicts and abused children, those from care and child carers of HIV parents. It is very tough to be child in these circumstances. So this book is absolutely wonderful for help us have insight into behaviour. I am using the list for my PTSD recovery. I am not a child of this but a recovering abuse target.
V
I'll look into the book. I am learning a lot. I have the NMMNG and the 5 love languages to go but this one could be after that.
I really think my wife and I could have a fantastic future, but it would take a lot of work on both of our ends.
OK the average number of yes especially to the status by children of alcoholics is five positives.
This says to me that you were affected, my lovely there is wondeful scope here for shift. That of itself is very fortunate and comforting.
Post more later
Big hugs
V
Happy new year db'rs!! Let's focus on making 2106 great! I can't wait for it. I am determined to make a better me this year. I have lot's of goals (I hate resolutions), maybe I'll list them out later.
I had a great night. Had lots of different options to choose from and think I picked the best one. It was fun but free from temptation, which was what I needed. The best part.... my wife hardly entered my head! New years eve is very significant for us going back to high school. Before we got married and we were 'off', I would usually text or call her new years eve and get no response. But I did not try to contact her last night. Everything just felt good.
I am still wrestling with what to do. One day I say just wait it out... the next day I say no it is time, this is ridic. Maybe she brings it up in the next few days. The start of the year is kind of a natural point for change. It would be a relief actually. If not, then maybe I can try the LR after the LR like Sandi mentioned.
2016 will be interesting!
Just a lil journaling...
Holidays are all over and they actually went better than expected for me mentally. I was scared of them. Thanksgiving turned out to be the worst, maybe because it was batting lead off?
Have tons of goals for 2016 physically, professionally and mentally. I am looking forward to crushing them all.
I've been reading other threads, particularly jguys and focusing on Zues responses since we are both kind of focused on the same thing at the moment (ie when is it time). One difference is I never talk to me wife so my emotions are pretty even keel. I guess I am just going with the status quo for now and I won't push the issue though it is annoying to be in this limbo state. Oh well... focus on me and try not to think about it.
So what does that mean? I have not heard from her since xmas (that burst of contact ended quickly!). I guess I am just back to no contact or at least not initiating contact. She did seem a bit annoyed by it in one of our exchanges around xmas when she said 'I feel like you have me blocked but keep in contact with everyone else'. She can contact me when ever she wants. So I guess that is the plan for now? Is there something different I should be doing? She has to bring up D sooner or later I would think.
Bring it 2016
Pinn, I have no advice. Just wanted to say I'm gonna have to watch Swingers soon. Thanks for posting. That was oddly helpful.
I recommend it Gmum. That was my go to movie when my wife (BF/GF back then) did this the first time. I am sure you will be able to related to Mikey. :-)
It will be next on my list.
Thanks again, Pinn.
I ended up taking the majority of the advice on here and not bringing up divorce with the WW. I did think about it long and hard though. I figured some more time could not hurt and I do not have any pressing issues that divorce would solve. I thought she might bring it up with the new year here.
So my plan now is to pretty much status quo. I will not try and contact her until I need tax documents, so mid Marchish. I sent her a text earlier this week to remind her that we had to file together. It went like this.
"Morning... its freaking freezing! We have to do our taxes together so keep your docs together and I'll do later"
Her response:
"Morning! I was going to text you today. OK I will"
That was it. You were going to text me what today exactly? Anyway, I accidentally texted a wrong number first. I had deleted her contact info from my phone a while ago. That was pretty funny.
6.5 months in and no mention of divorce (I think she would say its clear that thats what she wants though, but that is mind reading). But also no signs of anything else. Besides her flurry of texts during the holidays, basically no other communication. We'll see what the next few months bring. I feel good though. Going to have friends over to my house on Saturday.
I do have one problem in terms of detaching. If my mind wonders, it begins to think about what she is thinking. I have absolutely no idea, she could be miserable or beyond happy or anything in between. Talk about the ultimate cheese less tunnel. I can't answer the darn question and even if I try to I am probably wrong. Yet my mind goes right back to it.
In other ways I think do good. I do not think about what she is doing or who she is with. I rarely get the urge to contact her. I do a decent amount of GAL'ing.
My mind drifts there before bed and when I am driving mainly. Anyone have a similar issue? I think this is the major issue holding back my detachment.
Hi Pinn! Yes and yes- my brain also used to go there at night and while driving. I think that was when it was just me and my thoughts without other major stimuli (well besides the obvious driving stimuli).... But I can say thinking about h has become less and less! In fact, this is the first weekend since I've moved out that I could actually sit and watch a movie at home without my brain going there.
It seems like you are doing well, though! High five! Have you played any hockey lately? Tonight my local hockey team is hosting Star Wars night! I thought about going, but opted to stay in and do some work that I need to finish up. Womp womp.
Haha... that is too bad! Star Wars night and hockey woulda been a good time!
I play hockey a lot... twice a week and thinking about adding another league in.. not sure yet. That might be too much with work meetings at night, gym and my last class starting soon and getting up at 430 every day. Jeesshhh. By the time Friday comes I am ready to crash by 9!
Had a bunch of friends over last night. It was a good time. Luckily, my WW joined my group of friends rather than vice versa so I still have all of them. We used to host a lot but that was the first time I have had anything at my place since she left.
I feel good. We got this Feyth!
just a little journalling tonight... feeling blah, not sure what is going. Even had hockey and a work meeting tonight so I have been busy. I am just discouraged. I feel like there might be very minute signs of improvement, but they are very subtle. I try real hard to remain objective when judging an interaction. The little to no contact makes it hard for me to judge what is going on. I have no idea. She could be happy as hell with a possible OM or she could be miserable. I have no idea.
It is the right move though right (little to no contact)? I think it is. I feel like when she does text me now, I am pretty much a pro at how to respond. Short but friendly, no questions. I just don't see the frequency of communication increasing on her part. Haven't seen her in almost 6 months now... haven't talked on the phone in about 5. I do not understand why she is not pushing for D yet? I was thinking back to what it is like to be married the other day and it is getting harder to remember it. hmph
Pinn, I'm not up on your sitch. But I think it's awesome all the gal you are doing. It's funny that you mention trying to remember being married, and how it feels. It just made me realize that I can't put my finger on it either right now. Good luck, we all could use a little of that!
Thanks dday. Yea funny how that fades huh? I have the memories... I just do not remember how it feels.
Having a real strong urge to contact my wife today.... so I come here instead :-). Not sure what it is, just have that urge... we all know about that urge. I won't do it but needed to get it out.
What I would really like is for her to contact me without there being some catalyst. I guess that could be my next 'sign post'. 6.5 months in and no signs of anything either positive or more negative. I guess the only thing I know for sure is that I am not pushing her further away. I do wonder what she is thinking and why she has not pushed for D. But making sense of what is going on in a WW's head is impossible.
Sandi mentioned in a different thread that it took 2 years to get over the waywardness. That is such a long time, I could not do that unless there were signs of improvement along the way. Then I also think is it even worth it? Could we both change enough to make this work? Would she repeat this pattern again if we got back together? I do love her and want to be with her so I can be patient for now. But there is only so much one can take.
I am reading no more mr nice guy. That is not at all what I thought it was going to be. As I am reading, I actually do not see myself in it that much, maybe 20%. At the end I can reevaluate then it is on to the love languages... that I am really interested in. I know my wife did not hit mine and I am sure I missed hers. All of it is very interesting.
I guess there is not much else I can do. I am more or less in NC and I just try to take advantage of the few times we do interact by being positive, confident, not asking questions and not pursing.
I do believe limbo is the best training ground for the person you want to be. There is no reason it has to be tough. You can be content, at peace, happy, appreciative in the present, here and now. I think the limbo is actually exactly where you should be, because whatever is preventing you from achieving that peace is exactly where you should be focusing on growing. It's like lighting up arrows showing you the way to go. It is priceless.
Grabbing this from Jguys thread. I think Zues's advice above is great and can keep my focused. I think I am getting there. In a weird way, I am kind of looking forward to seeing how this plays out. Either with my wife or without, it will be adventure that I was not planning on taking.
Happy Sunday, Pinn!
Good for you! Sometimes we need our own signposts to keep us going. I totally agree that Zues' statement is that! Just a simple nudge to give us all the motivation to keep on the path we've set out for ourselves. I personally take screen shots of some of these great DB statements and re-read them when I need encouragement. It works!
Wishing you a great week ahead!
Thanks as always Feyth for stopping on by!
I got my first invisalign treatment today. My teeth were already pretty straight but a few were bugging me. Some think I am crazy for spending money on this but I do not care. It bugged me and any little confidence boost I can get the better. I'm not vain, I just want to feel good. The goal is to be a mini Rock (talk about alpha male!)... he's the inspiration. It's six months so it works out perfectly. The MBA will be finished by then and that will be right around the 1 year mark.
Also, just had a phone interview that went well. I would love that job. We'll see. Next step is to figure out what to do with this house. Seems like either way I need to sell it. Even if we get back together, we would need a complete fresh start which means selling this place. If not, I cannot see staying here by myself. ehh.. got some time there I guess.
I can't believe on Wed it will be 6 months since I have seen (that's right SEEN!) my wife. It went by so fast. I can't even believe it. I am just going to keep on doing what I am doing right now. Seems to be working for me mentally at least. If she does not bring up D, then I will re-evaluate at the 1 year mark.
I started reading the 5 love languages book. Fascinating. The physiological aspect of all of this stuff is so interesting. I have a pretty good handle on my love language and what I wanted or liked is what I gave me wife. I remember the few times she hit my language... it felt really good. I am so sad to say that I am not sure what her primary one is. I have known her since we were 11 and I don't know it. Maybe with some further thought, I can grasp it. I think I can rule some out at least.
I think your WW has administered bad treatment to discourage you, even to prove to you, that the M is over. That is one reason I believe the longer the LBH stalls, the worse she will act. That's what women do!
Some LBH'S will experience this coldness and bad attitude (and worse), and then when he agrees to a divorce, she changes and becomes like his BFF. That's b/c she doesn't have to convince him any longer and they can just be best buddies!
If the H would display an attitude that said, "You know, I've been thinking about us and I've decided you are right. This really isn't working for me, either". The H would see surprise in her, and then she would probably be friendlier and even warmer........and then, she would probably become very curious as to his reasons for wanting to move on and she would start making excuses for more contacts, etc. I have not seen it fail, yet. It's just that the LBH'S are afraid to do it, or else they have waited too long.
The whole idea of remaining friends and keeping the home safe place, etc., just doesn't seem to work in a case of waywardness. The only cases I can recall that were successful in drawing the WW back, were those where the WW believed the LBH was done and no longer attached nor interested in her.
It sparks something deep inside of the woman. It almost lures her to the man who no longer desires her. She has this feeling similar to a challenge to rise in her. That old basic human nature of wanting what is no longer hers to have. It has been removed. She thought she didn't want it, but now she's lost it......and she wants it back.
The board has had hundreds of men who will post how confused they get b/c when they finally give up and leave the WW alone and he starts building a life for himself, she starts to pursue him.
. Old human nature........just can't beat it.
The catch is that the LBH has to let her really work hard to get him back again. Too many men want to jump back the first sign of her reaching out to him. The first several times will just be her testing him. If he goes all melty-man, then she loses interest. (Pursuit and Distanting).
Copying Sandi's posts from Flights thread here...
I have certainly found this to be true the previous times my wife and I broke up (bf/gf back then but same pattern). She always knew to come back right when I actually had moved on... it is kind of crazy how that works. The five love languages book is really bring some things to light for me. I still believe there is a chance for something special between us. But we'll see.
It is our nieces 6th birthday today... really sad I have to miss that tonight. I dropped off a gift at the in laws for her yesterday.
I feel like I am taking a huge step backwards today. I am in a big time funk, the worst in months. Having a lot of trouble focusing at work, the WW is on my mind.
I don't know if it was the fact that I missed my nieces first birthday since she was born yesterday or if it is the fact that today marks 6 months since I last saw my wife. Pathetic.
It is hard with so little contact to get any kind of feel for where she is at. I feel my current method is exactly what I should be doing and exactly what I should not be doing all at the same time. I even had that strong urge hit to contact her today but luckily I fought through that.
Detaching is hard. Just when I think I make progress, I get pulled back in. Worst part is, she did not even do anything to pull me back in. I think this will be a temporary blip but still.
Being so much in the dark is driving me crazy. I wish there was a black and white answer to all of this. I want to sit down and talk about all this with her... the real her, find out what happened. Not the her that was parading around with her new hair, bright pink bra hanging out and a mini skirt on (that's a great memory). I just want to hypnotize her, remove that fog, and find out what the real story is.
Sorry for the rant, there is nothing to even respond to in this. I am not changing anything that I am doing... some days are just harder than others. I still think my very limited contact is the right way to go but it is kind of counter intuitive. It is really hard seeing this ending positively for us. Sure, I will grow and learn a lot. But my hopes of a new marriage with my wife are dwindling. I feel very strange even calling her my wife. In some ways, I do wish she would say something like.... "you know what Pin, I have taken the last 7 months and really thought about things. It just will not work between us, I will not be happy. I want a divorce." It would be a relief.
OK DB'rs... the time has come.... finally have something and I can't mess this up. I need advice.
Got this text this morning:
'I keep having dreams about you every night!'
Out of the blue. How the heck do I respond to this?
I could say something like "aw... that's nice" in an hour or two.
I do not think I should ignore it but I could. She would have ignored it if I sent that to her a few months ago.
I def haven't dealt with anything like this since BD.
maybe something like a whitty joke. I hope they are not nightmares!. I really don't know either.
I was reading your post right before you got the text. I feel the same way. I am going as little contact as possible,it feels right and so wrong. Then you rmewmory of her and the mini skirt hit home again. I get to deal with the fact that we have 2 kids together and she will get to occupied to call them. that will get me spinning!
I def think you need to respond, but just remember could be a temp check and if you dive in she can run.
best of luck
Thanks OTW... I kind of like that idea of the joke. Temp checking is fine by me as long as I handle it right... i've gotten jack for the past 7 months.
Yea that memory is etched in my mind. Hard to get it out. It is vivid.
Any other recommendations on how to respond to the above text?
I agree about taking anything. I need to remember when I do get something not to be so pig headed about no contact to ruin something.
please let us know what you decide to respond
Ignore it. Make her wonder. Be mysterious.
I don't think ignoring it is the right way to go... I've been plenty mysterious over the course of the last 7 months. hmph
I would be flirty, like ' better clean your linen then
One word, "Nightmares?"
Then she'll either respond with more or not. Be cool. Don't say to much. LBH's have a tendency to be too wordy in their responses.
Aren't you glad, now, that you didn't break down and contact her? You waited it out and now she's made the first move in a contact. Don't go crazy and make this out to be something more than what it is. I believe it is nothing more but a sneaky way to tempt check you. Don't give yourself away. You are the cool guy on campus all the girls want to date......you are confident and very looking gorgeous.
Now, sound like that guy!
I would be flirty, like ' better clean your linen then wink
Yuck!
OK.. thanks all... I am going with Nightmares?... I like that.
Thanks for the feedback.
she replied with...
"No! some are good some are bad but no nightmares"
I don't really like that response... this I can ignore.
Thoughts?
I'd hold off and see if she says anything else.
I wouldn't reply to the last text. Leave the ball in her court.
Thanks Sandi and Gmum. Yea my head is telling me to leave this one be as well which is what I will do here. Thank you all for your input and keeping my head on straight.
That is kind of a messed up text to send to your husband who you have barely talked to in 6+ months. But it is no surprise after all the stories I have read on here.
I am glad I have the gym tonight, then a work call and then hockey. That will keep me busy to almost midnight and I have plans for tomorrow night.
I guess one thing I am concerned about is being too cold. But we can see how it goes.
def let that one go. no response.
You're not being cold you're being cool guy.
so it looks like she was a little aggravated at my lack of response, hope I am following the right path here...
she texted today with
"Cool. Anyways... I haven't received and tax stuff yet bla bla bla"
Any thoughts??... I feel like I should say something here.
I could say... "Ok.. thanks for letting me know"
seems a bit cold though
was she asking you for tax stuff for letting you know she hasnt received anything that you will need to get from her?
I agree though I would sound as happy as possible in a response and say "No problem, just keep me posted. Have a good one!"
and thats it.
Thanks OTW.
she was letting me know that she hasn't received it yet...
yea that is a more friendly and happy than what I was thinking. I need to remember that. I like your suggestion.
I guess on the bright side.. my lack of response seems to have bothered her. Actually that whole exchange must have thrown her for a loop... I am positive the response I gave was not what she was expecting.
she replies with....
"why are you always so short with me?"
then with...
"trust me I get that you don't want to talk to me but you could at least not always make me feel like you're done talking the second I say anything"
I don't want to drive her away obviously. Btw shes barely freaking texted me in the past 7 months. A little at xmas, and then the past 2 days. I want to lay into her hard for that comment above but I won't.
I could say something... like "I'm sorry just busy at work"
Or should I say more... I of course do want to talk to her... any thoughts on this one? I feel this is kind of an important point. I don't want to drive her off, but I also don't want to blow any progress.
That is classic. She is not getting you waiting on her every word and jumping at the chance to speak to her.
Your thoughts on a response I believe are correct. But do not apologize. She decided to have you gone. Respond. " not trying to be short just busy days recently". Leaves her curious about what is so busy in your life.
This may lead to more texts. You need to be very careful how much you give. Once she has you back into her she may pull away. You want to not be the one chasing.
I'm betting she is doing a lot of thinking.
ugh.. this is going to be harder than I thought. I can handle the lil BS texts OK... but if she keeps up with the ones like above... it is harder. Guess I am not used to it so my mind is not trained for them yet.
I don't want her to stop contacting me. It is a very fine line to walk here. I don't want her to be like, hey I tried, he's being an ahole, forget him.
Anyway, thanks OTW. I think I will go with that type of response. I will just a wait a bit to see if there are any other thoughts.
Def wait for more responses! I am very curious what others think
ah well... sent it already
she responded with:
"right...I'll just get the taxes to you at some point"
ugh... feel like I messed up
ugh... feel like I messed up
Nah. Youre just mind reading.
I think you did OK.
What did you think she was going to respond with?
I don't think so. You can't look into what she says so much.
She is still looking for you to engage. Why does her being mad about your response upset you? She is the one that wanted out. This text back and forth will not make you work things out. This was the first contact. Let her keep coming back.
What I have learned from DB is everything feels wrong. You are like me. You want to fix it and think you can. You can not. She has to want to. The next time you can be a little more friendly maybe inquire something.
I think you will be surprised what is prob going on in her head.
Thanks Guys. It certainly did 'feel' wrong.. I can't quite explain it. I know a lot of this is counter intuitive. I guess there has been such little contact, it is hard to not jump right back in there.
Azz, you know what... that is the response I expected. Just not what I wanted I guess. But I did know I was going to get something like that.
So that is the end of that for now I guess. I won't respond to that last one agreed? Hopefully she does keep coming back and I can build on this.
Thanks again for the help otw.
Pinn
This process is not made or broken on a simple text. Truth is she was temp checking you there. It's tough when down to your core you feel like you need to respond or justify your actions , so you replied with a "sorry I've been busy" which she seemed to reply "right... Bs but whatever"
The push pull dance is tricky ... I took away from her initial text and seen it as her confused as to why you are not being her friend, because in her head and the plan she made out in advance had her leaving you but you both still being buddies. My w had the same fantasy .... A few well placed consistent truth darts solve this. My reply to such a text, "sorry if you feel I'm being short, I am just respecting the fact you want space and are going a different direction in your life, just as I am" validating you understand how she feels but also letting her know her choice will not land you as her buddy. Just my approach here
Thanks Azz and Cali for chiming in. I was hoping I wasn't leading him wrong. Cali. I like your response.
Pinn, I told ya, she's tempt checking. Whenever she decides to check out ole Pinn to see if he's still emotionally attached, and he doesn't act like a puppy trying to lick her face and his tail wagging 90 MPH, she gets pi$$y. So, let her! You LBH'S are so darn scared the WW is going to never contact you again!
I don't know why I keep wasting my breath, but here I go again. Have you ever watched an old classic movie where it showed a female doing something.....say like dropping her lace handkerchief on the ground to see if the gentleman she passed would pick it up and chase after her to hand it to her? I know that's a little far fetch from the forward actions of women these days, however, females have played little games (sweet or very dangerous) since the beginning of time. Your WW was playing a game. She was checking to see if you were going to jump on that hanky and start showing her how interested you really are in her.
The smart guy, in those movie scenes, would be a gentleman......hand her hanky to her (but would not chase her down), tip his hat, and gracefully continue walking on as though he never gave her another thought. It usually frustrated the silly females who were accustomed to manipulating men who would jump through hoops to get an excuse to talk to her. It might even anger her if she'd tried to get this particular gentleman to fall for her little tricks......but the funny thing is......he would be the guy who she kept trying to get, instead of those others who would run a mile to give her hanky back. That is how it has always been, and it will continue to be!
You didn't jump as quick and as high as she wanted, and just like any other WW who tempt checks and fails........she got pi$$y. Well let her! Why are you worried? As long as you are the cool guy, she will keep trying. But the minute you start giving her answers about why you didn't say more in your replies, etc., etc., she's disinterested b/c she knows she still has you in the palm of her hand.
When will you men learn this? This is not hard to understand. "I know Sandi, but it's so hard to do". Really? Even if you know you are deleting an opportunity to let it develop into something further? Even if you know you've shot yourself in the foot every time you fall for one of her tempt checks? Even though you know she's playing with you and seeing if she can make a bigger fool out of you?
Do you really want to know when she's authentic in what you think is her "reaching out"? That's what most men call it, when she's really doing nothing more than tempt checking. They say, "But what if she was reaching out and I didn't respond, then I've lost her forever". Listen, if the woman is still wayward......forget her contacts. If she is sincerely wanting to be with you in a MR.......she will not act like a b'tch when you don't respond to some idiotic text after 6 or 7 months of NC. If she acts like a jerk, then she's still wayward and you need to get as far away from her as possible. No explanations, no debating, no talks. Why do nice-guy LBH types think they owe the WW an explanation whenever her hair starts to bristle at him? It's her problem, not his. She can get glad in the same rags she got mad. Who cares? He is so scared she'll think he doesn't care that he ruins his chances by responding too quickly, with too much excitement, and too much talk.
Thanks for the help all!
Caliguy, yea that would have been good. I hope I get the chance for this again. I wasn't even thinking of a truth dart at that point... she definitely could use a few of those and I like that response. She really could not get mad at that... that is the truth.
Anyway, we will see what happens.
Pinn, I told ya, she's tempt checking. Whenever she decides to check out ole Pinn to see if he's still emotionally attached, and he doesn't act like a puppy trying to lick her face and his tail wagging 90 MPH, she gets pi$$y. So, let her! You LBH'S are so darn scared the WW is going to never contact you again!
I don't know why I keep wasting my breath, but here I go again. Have you ever watched an old classic movie where it showed a female doing something.....say like dropping her lace handkerchief on the ground to see if the gentleman she passed would pick it up and chase after her to hand it to her? I know that's a little far fetch from the forward actions of women these days, however, females have played little games (sweet or very dangerous) since the beginning of time. Your WW was playing a game. She was checking to see if you were going to jump on that hanky and start showing her how interested you really are in her.
The smart guy, in those movie scenes, would be a gentleman......hand her hanky to her (but would not chase her down), tip his hat, and gracefully continue walking on as though he never gave her another thought. It usually frustrated the silly females who were accustomed to manipulating men who would jump through hoops to get an excuse to talk to her. It might even anger her if she'd tried to get this particular gentleman to fall for her little tricks......but the funny thing is......he would be the guy who she kept trying to get, instead of those others who would run a mile to give her hanky back. That is how it has always been, and it will continue to be!
You didn't jump as quick and as high as she wanted, and just like any other WW who tempt checks and fails........she got pi$$y. Well let her! Why are you worried? As long as you are the cool guy, she will keep trying. But the minute you start giving her answers about why you didn't say more in your replies, etc., etc., she's disinterested b/c she knows she still has you in the palm of her hand.
When will you men learn this? This is not hard to understand. "I know Sandi, but it's so hard to do". Really? Even if you know you are deleting an opportunity to let it develop into something further? Even if you know you've shot yourself in the foot every time you fall for one of her tempt checks? Even though you know she's playing with you and seeing if she can make a bigger fool out of you?
Do you really want to know when she's authentic in what you think is her "reaching out"? That's what most men call it, when she's really doing nothing more than tempt checking. They say, "But what if she was reaching out and I didn't respond, then I've lost her forever". Listen, if the woman is still wayward......forget her contacts. If she is sincerely wanting to be with you in a MR.......she will not act like a b'tch when you don't respond to some idiotic text after 6 or 7 months of NC. If she acts like a jerk, then she's still wayward and you need to get as far away from her as possible. No explanations, no debating, no talks. Why do nice-guy LBH types think they owe the WW an explanation whenever her hair starts to bristle at him? It's her problem, not his. She can get glad in the same rags she got mad. Who cares? He is so scared she'll think he doesn't care that he ruins his chances by responding too quickly, with too much excitement, and too much talk.
perfect Sandi... thanks for this. I can keep the focus. I don't think I reacted that poorly to the temp check, did you? Of course it could always be better. Maybe my mind reacted poorly to it. I was mainly just venting/ questioning things on here. The reason why I do that is to get these types of responses. So I can learn a bit, think about what people say and drive it into my head. I think I am getting it.
This was the first time I had this happen to me, so yes my mind spun a bit but at least my actions were in control. Next time, my mind will spin less and my actions will be better. I can handle this... I will handle this.
No you didn't
It is just taxes!
Aren't you just the middleman?
V
Hi V,
Thanks for stopping by! The original text from her had nothing to do with our taxes that was what had my mind spinning for a bit then she used the tax thing after that as a reason to keep texting basically.
I am the tax man, I do our taxes so I need her info. That is what she is referring to. But the tax aspect of the convo was meaningless, everything else is what I was trying to get right.
Anyway.... on to a new thread. It is always interesting seeing what transpires over the course of these threads.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2646096&#Post2646096
I don't think I reacted that poorly to the temp check, did you?
No, however, you asked for our thoughts, remember? When anyone asks for my thoughts......lookout!
Yes of course! And I love the thoughts and feedback I get on here. It is invaluable to me and I take constructive criticism very well. At the very least it makes me think about things.
I just wanted to separate things into two categories: my thoughts vs my actions. Naturally when I see her response like that, I am going to wonder if what I did was correct. I think that is natural anyway. When a temp check comes, especially when I have had so little interaction, my mind is going to spin a bit. The key is to not let that short term spin dictate my actions.
Anyway, thanks again for the feedback and inside look at my WW's thinking. Thanks everyone.
New thread is here:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2646096#Post2646096