I am not even attempting a title for this thread. Things are bad. Hoping that its one of those setbacks that is necessary before moving forward. H is communicating! But the stuff that is coming out of his mouth is alarming and makes me feel like I am in the Twilight Zone.
But he is communicating. Time will tell. He did say "there is some love there" and he said if there wasn't he wouldn't be here. So that is good! But then he said some other stuff.......
The only other thing I'd like to add, and could never say to him, is if I did this to him he'd last one day. There is NO way he could tolerate if I had an EA, if I dragged my family into it, if I spewed at him. There is no way. That is not helpful to say, but I just wanted my DB friends to know that. I don't know why. I just need someone to know that.
Your friends are here and we understand.
Hang in there pho, there is light at the end of the tunnel. I don't know what to say about his revisionist history. If you speak up it's a fight and if you accept it, it causes bitterness and resentment. Damned if you do damned if you don't.
Keep posting and the DB love will buoy you.
Sorry things are rough right now pho, today is just one day in a string of them that this journey is going to call for. Today may be the worst one yet, but tomorrow's a brand new one.
H is communicating, that's huge! What's coming out of his mouth may make you sick to your stomach, but it may have to all come out before you get to hear what you want. I'll say the fact that he is communicating at all is still good.
One day pho, one day at a time.
PP
Thank you Pigpen. And its actually not the worst day yet. Not by far! At least what he is saying is "spew" in content, but he is saying it in a calm and concerned way, not raging, more like "This is something that has been bothering me that I want you to be aware of." And then.....OMG the content is awful. But delivery is better. He did get a little overly intense and kind of scared me at one point, was in my face practically spitting, but he walked out and cooled down. He is learning to control his anger, and now he is learning to speak. I can set us both back so much by reacting emotionally.
I hope you are right pigpen. I know we all on here think our situation is unique, our spouse's are really not the people they are acting like, they really are loving and awesome and just messed up, I know we all think that, but I do believe that. Kind of like everyone who is in jail claims they are innocent. That's me. "not my H, yes he cheated but he didn't mean to, yes he spewed for months, but he didn't mean it, yes he said he hates me, but he didn't mean it."
You know what the worst part is? That I knew this all along. I knew H was incapable of handling emotions, I knew from early on in our relationship that he was incapable of taking ownership for his own emotions. But I was 20 and stupid. I wasn't thinking marriage, I wasn't thinking long term, and I guess if I did I thought he'd outgrow it or we'd work it out? Love would conquer all? I knew it, and I didn't think about the long term implications of it, what would happen when life got hard. I didn't think about it.
But, and here is the big thing......In the last 9-10 months I have been just clinging to hope and wanting nothing more than to stay married. I still am clinging to hope and wanting to stay married. But more than just staying married I want this resolved.
I can see another ending to this now, that involves breaking up. And I am not happy with that alternative, but I can see it, and I can accept it. So that is huge progress for me.
Pho, I am proud of you. Accepting that it MAY all come to an end is huge. I truly hope that it doesn't come to that. For you, for me, or for anyone standing for their marriage.
Keep your chin up. You will be fine.
Pho
I love your posts and you cheers me up when I am sad
I am still grinning with the thoughts of my W trying to sell the house with me dancing in my wife's knickers or my boxer shorts !!!
Pho I hear you when you say about your children but we can only give them our unconditional love
It does get easier today 3 months ago I would have been totally stressing my W is at a wedding without me and I would have been in tears thinking on what she is doing or not doing
I would love for her to want me again but I know this is not what she wants at least not righ now it might change but I cannot hold my breath
In the past I can see that I have np been controlling and I want someone to love me unconditionally
She is her own woman and she can make her own choices
I know when I get upset it is because I have thought about my sitch
Pho you are what matters your DB friends love you to bits you are like a sister
It is all about choices ...my W today has decided to go to a wedding she still is not home it's nearly 1am my 11 year old has been kept out and awake her choice ...personally I think she is being very selfish and it is things like this that make me think why am I fighting so much to save my marriage
She has probably still give me less thought today than k I have given to her
Times are changing ghost is getting stronger
Love you pho
Ghost x
you were very close to me on your way home
Mutatio, where are you? If I can ask, don't want to break forum rules. I am unable to sleep tonight. So tired but now I am having chest pains. H is in the garage talking to his friend.
I really miss being married.
Ghost, I am glad I made you laugh. You are a good man. You don't deserve any of this.
I don't have a lot to say tonight. I am tired. I need to sleep but can't. I want to get through this and be on the other side already.
Wishing you all some peace and sleep tonight.
Tomorrow will be better.
Hi Pho,
I am so, so sorry for the tough time you are having being the target of your H's behaviour and feelings. I have had to stop reading your such generally as much of your H's behaviour reminds me of mine when I was in the crisis of my mental health breakdown. There are a lot of triggers for me in reading your thread. I am however cheerleading you and your family and sometimes I pop in hoping to read some positive progress.
I think you hit the nail on the head recognising that H is actually communicating. Yip it feels horrible to be scapegoated and blamed ( Brene Brown's definition of blame is " a way to discharge pain and discomfort". Unfortunately H is using you as means to discharge his pain and discomfort. I wonder if for a man who has likely spent most if not all of his life numbing emotions one way or another for one reason or another. His mental health crisis has resulted in him feeling his feelings, his grief his loss, his fear for the first time. Sadly and painfully you are on the end of this. But is his actually feeling something not a good thing?
I have significant shame for treating Mr Ex, I man a loved with all my heart in this way. When I was in it. I had no idea. My Mr Ex was the person I trusted most in the world, loved most in the world. And he was the one I abused most in the world, with my blame and projecting. And I am so sorry I didn't see the impact it was having on him, on his sense of self, his sense of being a partner, a lover, a man. I wore him down. I gradually over time whittled away his love for me.
I am so very sorry for you being the person that is the cost of his emotional recovery. I am sorry that my Mr Ex was the cost of mine.
Sorry to hijack with my stuff. I just wanted to encourage you to find your safe place with your children. If that means walking away then do. I know that for me Mr Ex ending our relationship was the kick in the butt I needed to finally address some issues that I had not been brave enough to face. But also no one life should be sacrificed for another. You are both equally entitled to happiness and a glorious future.
Please drape yourself in an amour of self love when you speak with him. Please buffer yourself with the knowledge that while his words are hurtful and unkind and inconsiderate of your fragile heart and needs, he needs this journey. I do hope he realises soon, and I hope his counsellor is giving him guidance to take responsibility for his feelings and his actions. Because this is the lesson that H needs. He is solely responsible for his own happiness and unhappiness. It was never yours.
And Pho there is something in those words for you. Your H is not responsible for your unhappiness or happiness. Stand in your light and know that today you hold that in your hands.
My heart does ache for your sitch Pho . It really does.
With so much love
JellyBxxx
Pho...I'm sorry you're having a rough time. I don't have much patience for spewing H's these days. Mine had one heck of a spew-fest at my expense the last time I allowed him to speak to me. I just sat there in disbelief as every bad thing that has ever happened to him was blamed on me. I know I'm pretty incredible, but dang! I have some awesome powers of destruction.
He's starting to understand I will not speak to him. L is setting up an emergency hearing to get me some money. He won't give me any unless I prove I need it. He's having an affair. He doesn't get to control me anymore. He's going to really dislike the new me. As much as I wanted to stand for my marriage? I don't care as much anymore. I'm tired of the abuse.
My hope is that your upcoming time apart enables you to arrive at a place of peace, no matter how it presents itself. I'll be here for you no matter what. I'm still going to work on me.
Hi Pho,
I am so, so sorry for the tough time you are having being the target of your H's behaviour and feelings. I have had to stop reading your such generally as much of your H's behaviour reminds me of mine when I was in the crisis of my mental health breakdown. There are a lot of triggers for me in reading your thread. I am however cheerleading you and your family and sometimes I pop in hoping to read some positive progress.
I think you hit the nail on the head recognising that H is actually communicating. Yip it feels horrible to be scapegoated and blamed ( Brene Brown's definition of blame is " a way to discharge pain and discomfort". Unfortunately H is using you as means to discharge his pain and discomfort. I wonder if for a man who has likely spent most if not all of his life numbing emotions one way or another for one reason or another. His mental health crisis has resulted in him feeling his feelings, his grief his loss, his fear for the first time. Sadly and painfully you are on the end of this. But is his actually feeling something not a good thing?
I have significant shame for treating Mr Ex, I man a loved with all my heart in this way. When I was in it. I had no idea. My Mr Ex was the person I trusted most in the world, loved most in the world. And he was the one I abused most in the world, with my blame and projecting. And I am so sorry I didn't see the impact it was having on him, on his sense of self, his sense of being a partner, a lover, a man. I wore him down. I gradually over time whittled away his love for me.
I am so very sorry for you being the person that is the cost of his emotional recovery. I am sorry that my Mr Ex was the cost of mine.
Sorry to hijack with my stuff. I just wanted to encourage you to find your safe place with your children. If that means walking away then do. I know that for me Mr Ex ending our relationship was the kick in the butt I needed to finally address some issues that I had not been brave enough to face. But also no one life should be sacrificed for another. You are both equally entitled to happiness and a glorious future.
Please drape yourself in an amour of self love when you speak with him. Please buffer yourself with the knowledge that while his words are hurtful and unkind and inconsiderate of your fragile heart and needs, he needs this journey. I do hope he realises soon, and I hope his counsellor is giving him guidance to take responsibility for his feelings and his actions. Because this is the lesson that H needs. He is solely responsible for his own happiness and unhappiness. It was never yours.
And Pho there is something in those words for you. Your H is not responsible for your unhappiness or happiness. Stand in your light and know that today you hold that in your hands.
My heart does ache for your sitch Pho . It really does.
With so much love
JellyBxxx
Jelly, your post has me in tears. Well, maybe not, I woke up in tears, and logged on and read your post and I am still in tears. I am sorry if my posts trigger you, I don't mean to spread the pain. But your words have helped me, so thank you for reaching out even though it hurts.
Last night was the first night in about 2 months that H did not sleep in the bed, he was outside talking to a friend (his friend going through a D with a very nasty custody fight) and he was drinking, and then he didn't sleep with me. Its truly like all of the progress we made in the last couple of months has slipped away. I have a coffee meeting with a new friend of mine today, she is actually a therapist, and she has recently divorced. I am curious to hear her story and tell her mine.
Then grocery shopping, cooking, church. Leaving the kids with H today, although I am sure they won't be "with" him, they will be running the neighborhood with their friends.
I am putting the pieces together. I am beyond sad but I accept that that is where I need to be right now because its a reflection of my reality. But I am trying to find some peace within myself. Music is helping me.
I do believe that him speaking his feelings is a good thing. I will admit that I am not controlling my reactions nearly as well as when he was speaking less, even when he was raging it was easier to keep quiet because that was just rage. But when he is speaking in a calm manner, and it seems more conversational, it is easier to take the bait and then it escalates. I will control my reactions better. I will give him the space and the voice to heal. Maybe if the healing continues while he is away then this can really be a good thing.
I am going to ask him for something he has asked me for. To only deal with one issue at a time. So if he wants to spew something awful, it is that one thing. I will talk to my IC about this too, she keeps telling me to speak up, but I know if I do it will cost me my marriage. I need to ramp up the self care. I am going to "mis speak". I am going to interrupt sometimes, or sound tired or impatient in my words, I am only human. I cannot be afraid to speak. Which I am right now, I am so scared, and even with watching my every word it seems like I still manage to interrupt or use the wrong tone. There is just zero benefit of the doubt or love for me, zero.
And he is leaving in 6 weeks. I still don't want him to go but I do. Thank you Jelly.
Pho...I'm sorry you're having a rough time. I don't have much patience for spewing H's these days. Mine had one heck of a spew-fest at my expense the last time I allowed him to speak to me. I just sat there in disbelief as every bad thing that has ever happened to him was blamed on me. I know I'm pretty incredible, but dang! I have some awesome powers of destruction.
He's starting to understand I will not speak to him. L is setting up an emergency hearing to get me some money. He won't give me any unless I prove I need it. He's having an affair. He doesn't get to control me anymore. He's going to really dislike the new me. As much as I wanted to stand for my marriage? I don't care as much anymore. I'm tired of the abuse.
My hope is that your upcoming time apart enables you to arrive at a place of peace, no matter how it presents itself. I'll be here for you no matter what. I'm still going to work on me.
Ancaire, between the two of us we really have superpowers. I have the powers to cause disease! I know you have had it rough, so extremely intense and in such a short amount of time. At least mine is on some level trying. In a very small way from my perspective, but I also recognize that for him it is huge.
I am praying that now that Thanksgiving is over I can focus on myself and my kids again. I was really in a 3 week rut there.
Today I have a lot going on, but my goals (in addition to the things I am doing for myself- meeting a friend, going to church) are going to be for my children. I am going to interact with each child in a meaningful way today. I will let them take the lead, probably playing a game or doing a project together. I have ideas but no plans- the plan will be to give each of them a good one on one dose of "mom" time, just doing something simple and around the house. It is rainy and cold here, and they are all tired from traveling, so I am keeping the plans easy. I am also going to make a great family dinner. I will be pleasant to H but no puppy dog eyes and no pursuit.
This week we are overrun with dr. appointments and counseling appointments. I did not cancel the appointments that I had planned to cancel because I haven't lined up new ones yet. Also will start decorating for Christmas, I need to work on a project for the school, and research some more part-time or very flexible jobs for myself. And I have my dinner group. Next weekend is H's office Christmas party. Should be interesting as some of the guys know about OW.
I just got back from running errands and coffee with a friend. As I come in, D asks me what is going on. I ask her what she means. She said "Are you and Dad getting a divorce? Everyone is acting weird." I said "I do not want to get divorced and I am not planning to get a divorce. We are trying to work out some problems. I am sorry if you are worried." She said "I think I know what is going on. I think Grandma and Grandpa want Dad to divorce you." I said "Why would you think that?" And she said "Don't you notice the way they act around you? There are so many little private side conversations and they give you dirty looks. I think they hate you."
And I thought the Thanksgiving holiday went well. My heart is on the floor right now. Not sure what to think or say.
On the other hand, I had a good time with my friend.
My heart is on the floor.
Pho,
Things are never as good and never as bad as we think. I really do think that it's a good thing that your H is showing/dealing with his emotions, but I wish it didn't take a toll on you. You're a good person and wish the best for you. Please try to keep your perspective (seems you're doing better than me) and take it one day at a time. Focus on what helps you and it will help your family.
If only I could listen to my own advice....
SciDad, thank you. If I am doing better than you than I am sorry for you! I was about a month ago really rocking this whole DB thing, I could have been the DB poster child for a little while there.
I just had coffee with a friend of mine, she is a therapist. I told her how I was starting to lose it, how I had no voice, no say in the marriage, but that was my choice because of the crisis situation. She said that is a good and valid choice to make during a crisis, but as humans we can only go so long denying our own needs and feelings before we start to either break down physically or emotionally or turn really dysfunctional and not be able to break out of it. She said that based on what I told her I need to stop putting H and his problems first. Same advice that you all have been giving me.
Now to implement it. First thing- I will get a job.
Pho, it's great that you have a good friend to go chat with. Even more awesome that she is a therapist! That was some awesome advice, that you have to take care of yourself first. Keep it up!
Pho, don't forget the most important thing.
YOU are a smart, beautiful, and talented woman. To hell with your H - you are still awesome and inspire me with each of your posts. You deserve a little focus from youself
Dday and Scidad, thank you! Oh, my friend is also divorced. I asked her about the post-divorced dating scene. She said "You will not be dating for a long time. Your kids are already stressed out and needy, if you do get divorced they are going to need your undivided attention for the next 2-3 years, you won't even have time to think about dating! But your H will, so be prepared for that." I said something along the lines of what if H decides to step up and be a connected parent, and she said if he decides that then you probably won't get divorced. He's considering divorce because he is checked out.
Reality checks can really hurt.
Yikes, it [censored] that your D is in the middle of all this. But kudos to her for doing the only appropriate thing. And remember, it's best not to know what is being said, especially through a conversation decoded by a 14-yr old. I say that last bit just in case you're second-guessing yourself... :P
You have an awesome friend pho! I have no idea what post-divorce dating looks like, but I think she is giving you some solid advice.
BTW, I think that the best way to tell if a reality check is on the mark is if it hurts. The truth is painful, especially if you've been denying it for a long time
SciD, the thing is that MIL lies all of the time. And sometimes so does my D. But what she is saying has a ring of truth to it. I only hope that my H sees the truth before it is too late. He always saw through MIL's games prior to BD, now she can do no wrong.
D said that the IL's were encouraging BIL to stay with them longer and not go back home to SIL's "nasty" house. I have heard them say that about her house. So again, D's report has a ring of truth to it. I am proud of myself for not pumping her for more info, I really wanted to. I will not.
I believe it that you won't want to date for a long time. I feel that way too. I have 3 little boys, and they need me as much as they need their mom. They demand a lot of my time. Sounds like your daughter has a pretty good head on her shoulders. That has to make you proud.
Be well pho
Dday, I want to date right now! I know that is terrible. I want to date my H, but he is "uninterested" but I really really want to be in a relationship. I know that is so unhealthy and probably speaks volumes about my own dysfunctions. I really want to date my H, he is my first choice. I think that as soon as the ink dries on the D papers I will sign up for a dating service. I know, that is bad of me. I know. But this is my life too.
Wanting to date your H is not terrible. But it's also what makes this so hard. And before you ask, yes, I'm in the same place.
Welcome to our mutual dysfunctions. It's hard to be hopeful without getting our hopes up.
Any word on when the papers might be signed?
SciDad, no talk of D actually. At all. H has never even brought up the word. He did back in Feb, March, and April say that he'd rather be dead than married to me and he hasn't brought it up since, nor has he brought up the D word. I think he is waiting for me to solve all of our problems, admit that everything was my fault, even the imagined stuff, and then for me to get amnesia about the EA and the spew and anything he has done, and then, maybe, just maybe, he will check back in.
He also called a D lawyer back in Feb but that was one short conversation and he claims it had nothing to do with me. Seriously, that was an unrelated matter? OK then.
Every day for months I lived in expectation of being served papers because of his spew, but they never came, then the spew turned into ice cold silence, and now tentative talking about horrible and twisted topics that occupy his brain about how I have abused him. Its kind of like a Stephen King novel, the suspense and twists just keep coming.
You lived here from 2000 to 2009?
Yes, actually 2001-2009 so 8 years.
I'm a non practicing Catholic and my wife is Jewish but non observant. You said your a Jewish/Christian family, who's who? It doesn't matter in the slightest bit, I'm just curious. I know quite a few mixed religion marriages like our's. I do not believe this has anything to do with my marital problems. Could it be part of your MIL's problem?
M, I am Catholic although I have been attending a bible based church lately that I absolutely love. It seems like half the people I meet there are recovering Catholics. My H is Jewish, but was never raised with religion, so Jewish in name only. The religion issue for my MIL is more that I have beliefs rather than what they are. She and FIL are pretty anti-religion.
Also, the more I learn about you the more we have in common and you remind me of my H before he went crazy on me. He builds the most beautiful things, refinishes furniture, always working on something. I have been asking for Adirondack chairs for years now but still haven't gotten them. Have you seen the web site by a woman named Ana White? Just google her name, she has plans for just about any furniture project you can imagine, and people submit pics of their finished projects and she posts them, it is really a great place for ideas.
Oh! Some good (?) news in my world. Last night H approached me and asked if I wanted to talk. I said "I don't know if that's a good idea." (that's a first for me.) I went upstairs. He followed me and said "Do you want me to leave you alone? " So I said "No, I like the company." So then he said "Do you think we can talk without you freaking out on me?" (Ummm, great approach H.) So I said "Sure."
He said.....wait for it.......he said "I think you are not remembering correctly all the things I said to you a few months ago when I was breaking down. I know I said a lot of terrible things, but they weren't directed at you."
I said "You said you'd rather be dead than married to me for one more day."
He said "I think you are remembering wrong, or else maybe I chose the wrong words. I don't remember my words, but I remember feeling desperate and that everything in my life was not working, and I was breaking down. I never meant that I would rather be dead than married to you and I really think you are remembering that wrong."
I wanted to say "What about "I hate you and you destroyed my life and my mother's life and our daughter's life?" But I didn't. I said "OK, I remember things differently but emotions were running high and I know you were feeling desperate and hurt. I am glad you shared this with me, thank you for telling me."
And he just kind of nodded and then asked if he could leave the light on so he could read or if I wanted him to read in the other room so I could sleep. I said , leave the light on, I like you being near me while I sleep. And then I pulled the blankets over my head and went to sleep.
WTF????? That's good right? And I think my detachment is kicking in because if this was just a month or two ago I would have been all over that, but now I am more like ....ok.....could be good.....probably a good sign......go to sleep.
I think that you handled that very well, pho!
Hi Pho, I do think that's a positive thing - that he sought you out to have this convo, and that the aim was to try and put the record a little straighter.
Wow, the stuff he said before though...that must have been very tough to hear. But it is common for MLCers to lash out at their spouse in that way and also not recall things they did and said. Of course, for the LBS, these things burn like a laser and we can recall them!
I think you had some good responses - like the calm 'sure' and the 'Ok, I remember differently...'
It's good that you guys were able to revisit some of the more hurtful stuff and for the convo to stay on track as it did - credit to you my friend.
It makes me feel pretty lucky that my H hasn't directed much anger at me. Interesting also what your H said about feeling desperate and everything in life not working and breaking down. That really echoes some of the MLC stuff I've read.
Anyway, good for you xx
And the best part? I was more interested in responding to "small talk" with Mutatio than posting this, came on here to check in and almost forgot to post it. That's detachment! It feels good!
And another thing that clicked in my head (yes I am a slow learner.) In life there are going to be times where the people around me could completely go "crazy" and break down on me and I can not EVER again be in the position where this leaves me devastated for this long again. I have children counting on me. I can not "lose it." I didn't "lose it" this time, I functioned and took my kids to school and appointments and fed them, and went through the motions, but boy did it suck, and I was really not nearly as emotionally available as I needed to be. I can NEVER let anyone have that much power over me again. Never. Because who knows what people will do. Even if H "recovers" or if I remarry the strongest man in the world, I now have the knowledge that it can all shatter at a moment's notice and as long as I have these children I do not have the option of being devastated by someone else's [censored]. I know I can (and will) love and trust again, and even depend on someone again to a point, but always in the back of my mind I know that I can only count on myself from now on. Always.
I am feeling a peaceful sense of detachment today.
I don't know how I achieved it. Things are going in some ways better with H and in some ways worse, so I can't attribute it to the state of the relationship. I don't know what it is, I think I just worked my way up to it. I feel content in my own skin, in my own mixed up unsure life, I am ok in the midst of this.
I can't say I am "happy" but I am content.
I feel content in my own skin
Just coming in to say 'hi'.
And that there's nothing more you can ask out the world than this.
Thinking of you and wishing you the best.
Thank you Azzork. I miss you around here, but am hoping that your absence means you are moving on with your life and finding happiness.
Be well, Azzork, and thanks for stopping by.
Family counseling tomorrow morning. I was going to cancel but didn't because I didn't find an alternate counselor and felt like I needed at least a plan before canceling. Especially because the family counselor is part of the IC and psychiatrist- all in the same office and trying to coordinate treatment for D. I think D is going to blow up on us tomorrow morning and this is going to be a big mistake. She is furious with H right now and wants me to leave him. I told her to talk to him directly if she has a problem with him, come to me if she needs help addressing an issue, but I do not want her opinion on my marriage. I think what she overheard at the IL's house has sparked this.
I want everyone out of my marriage except me and H. I don't want to hear my daughter's opinion, my MIL's, my FIL's, my BIL's, I just want my marriage for once in my life to be between me and H.
Good work Pho! The skill now will be between you and therapist that H doesn't scapegoat D for this.
But I believe you presented this as best anyone could. You are letting husband know exactly where your allegiances lie. The notion of a united front and you guys as a team dealing with problems are exactly the seeds you a rightly planting. The huge bonus too, you actually got to be completely authentic about how you feel. You honored yourself and H. You should be mighty proud!!
Love JellybXXX
Pho, I am so proud of you! You spoke up and were very respectful to your H and your D. I am trying so hard to do this too and I LOVE how you brought up showing a united front and being better parents together. I really hope he decides to go with you to the appointment, for you and your D's sake.
I am trying so hard to learn that you can speak up and be authentic about how you feel (what JellyB said) without being the screaming, nagging, wives that our H's make us out to be.
Thank you Jelly and Ep. I just went through about 3 weeks of depression, I was really falling back into "the pit", was on this forum all the time, serious introspection and really digging deep. I think it all lead up to this, a newfound clarity. I don't think it was a step backwards, I think it was a necessary time to regroup and stop GAL'ing for a little while to get my thoughts worked out. I surprised myself with how well my words flowed, how non-emotional and logical and honest they were. I didn't cry. I didn't accuse. I didn't profess my love. I did say I wanted to stay married, but I sounded strong and not weak.
I don't know where this will go. I do think H might try to scapegoat D. I actually do. And its possible she made it all up. I have no way of knowing because if we confronted MIL she would definitely lie. And it doesn't really matter who said what. It is time to get everyone out of my marriage. I am not a reality show, this is between two people. (I recognize the irony that I am posting this online.)
I am on a roll here. If what D says she overheard is true, it isn't even that bad. People talk, gossip, speculate. The "bad" part is that they weren't careful enough to be discrete in front of D, which is pretty bad. But lets face it, she probably already overheard plenty during arguments H and I had.
The problem is that H lets them have a say and invites them into our business. And now D thinks she gets a say. I feel like this is becoming a free-for-all. I have had enough. I need a strong and committed husband. I need less drama. More focus on my kids and my future. Less noisy distractions and people taking sides.
Update- H decided not to attend family counseling this morning because he thought it would upset him and then he'd be distracted at work and he feels that things are not going well at work and he is in danger of losing position and will have nothing to come back to after his 6 month "away" job.
I told him that I didn't realize things were that difficult at work right now, and he needed to do what was best for him, and also that I was here for him should he need to talk, that he doesn't have to go it alone. He said nothing. Not one word.
Family therapy this morning focused mostly on me and D- how we could improve our relationship which is pretty good except that D has stress/ocd problems and she is trying to assert her views into my marriage. But for the most part, we are close, we talk, we do things together, we are ok. Could work on stress reduction and I am good with boundaries, just need to keep reinforcing them.
Now we have MC tomorrow night. I don't even know what to possibly tackle in there, it seems like things just keep getting worse. I don't want to bring anything up that could increase the tension, but I also am tired of STFU.
pho - I read a good book about validating and promoting conversation. The best part about the book, is that it was just a list of phrases to use and then an explanation on why. It was called, talk to me like someone you love (I think). It may help promote conversation without being threatening. I know you don't want to STFU, but I think you should keep trying to stay that course. Good luck!
Mahhty, I just ordered the book. I think I must have read 20 books suggested by people on this forum. Thank you.
Just got back from getting D braces. Texted a pic of D with her new braces to H and the same pic to my sister. H responded back "I hope she was thankful to you for this." Sister responded "Oh wow, she looks good, how is she feeling, is she in pain?"
This is the kind of thing that helps me detach. H is very much in the "what is in it for me?" mindset. He believes he is a victim of everything and every body. My attraction for him is slowly fading. Sure has taken me long enough.
Good for you pho. It hurts me to see the luster fading from my W, but it needs to happen. I remember braces! Ouch
Thanks Dday. I feel like I am posting too much. I am really getting dependent on this forum and feedback.
Lets just say H and I just had a "parenting discussion." We have different perspectives. I view this as a conversation starter, H views this as a conversation ender.
This is so painful. How did we get so far apart from each other? At least he's talking. That is positive. Going out with my dinner group now. Will try to check in later.
I not sure I would call it dependent but I am here quite a bit. I really and truly care for you and the rest of my friends here. I wake up and check the forum to see if someone posted and needs support. I check in from work and off and on all evening. I am not dependent, I deeply care for my friends. I got more support from you people on my single post about my 7 year sobriety anniversary then I have gotten in all of 2015 from my wife.
Pho, When you said "My attraction for him is slowly fading", I have to admit it sadden me. It reminds me of how my wife must have felt. I also feel sad for your husband, you are slipping through his fingers and he doesn't see it. I am afraid he will end up like me, a day late and a dollar short. Please don't give up on him yet. I have started crying as I'm typing this out. Your thought really hit me hard. This empathy thing can really have an effect on you. I can't believe I am pleading for the guy who treated my friend like *&^%$#@! I am, even though he treated you horribly. I am advocating for him quite honestly because I am facing the same fate and I want someone, anyone to stand up for him/me.
I have be hurt by my wife also, my wife had an affair, she has said things that really cut to the bone. I understand what he has shoveled onto your plate. With that understanding, I am asking you as a friend who cares for your well being, please don't give up on him yet.
I feel a bit of clarification is needed. I am not suggesting amnesty or even a commuted sentence. Strapping into the electric chair is okay, all I'm asking is that you don't throw the switch. Let him live, let him have a chance a little bit longer. Maybe with a little more time he can get his head out of his tuches.
Mutatio, I am not giving up on him. I still love him so much, but he is so extremely self absorbed and I literally feel like my body is going to break down on me from stress and sadness. My jaw hurts all the time, now I am back to crying every day. I just can't take it any more.
Last night he told me that he is just as depressed as this time last year, he feels helpless and he feels like his life is hell. It is too painful for me to even write this post, but last night was like an exact replay of last year. All the events/thoughts/ etc that went into him breaking down. Except that this year all 4 of the major "stressors" that set him off last year are greatly improved. Every single one of them is so much better. Life is moving forward, problems being resolved, but H is still stuck at ground zero.
I have so many thoughts and I want to write them out and get feedback, but right now this is just too painful. I spent most of today with a friend, now home to get the kids from school, then off to MC.
I need a job and I have stepped up my job search this week. I have known this for awhile but it is crystal clear now.
Sometimes, Pho, people can't be fixed. And other times, they don't want to be fixed.
Do not dim your light in the hopes that your H's will shine one day.
(pho)
hey Pho,
It is hard to see what it looks like being in the same place. Even after all the work and time that has gone into solutions. The pain you are feeling must be unbearable. You are so kind to be so concerned for your H.
I'm sorry if I put undue pressure on you yesterday with my emotional overreaction to your comment. I am shocked by my reaction. My wife's behavior is affecting me more deeply then I thought. Again, I am sorry that I made your life harder with my drama.
Pho - I can feel your pain through your words. I pray that today was a better day for you. I like what Calibri said about not dimming your light. You are so compassionate towards your H.
I'm sorry if I put undue pressure on you yesterday with my emotional overreaction to your comment. I am shocked by my reaction. My wife's behavior is affecting me more deeply then I thought. Again, I am sorry that I made your life harder with my drama.
Mutatio, you have never caused me one moment's pain, ever. You are so good to me, I feel you are honest, sensitive, and real. I need that in my life, as there is a huge hole in my heart due to H's insensitivity and self absorption. I can handle honest pain, honest emotion, it does not hurt me, but gives me connection to a real person. Keep it coming, tell me how you really feel, challenge me, you are my friend and we are in this together.
I wish I could talk to your wife and make her see how lucky she is.
Have a good night, Mutatio.
Calibri and Vise, thank you. I am a slow learner apparently, detachment is going to save me and will be the only chance of saving him. If he wants to be "saved." The more he talks the more I see how "broken" he is and I am not the one who broke him.
I have so much to say but I am so tired and I am going to bed.
I am focusing my next few weeks on Christmas and then my job search.
One thing at a time, everything done with love, self love comes first. I am figuring it all out, it is finally coming together for me, emotionally as well as intellectually. This has been a tough year. Watch out for me in 2016 because that is going to be my comeback year.
Roll on 2016. It can only be better. We are going to make sure of that.
You have come far and are imo holding up remarkably.Keep looking ahead and a better future is in store.
Last night he told me that he is just as depressed as this time last year, he feels helpless and he feels like his life is hell.
Thankfully, theres a rule about believing the things that they say.
Honestly, Im fairly behind in your situation. Im trying to keep up, but I tend to focus my time here on people that dont have as much support as you do.
But really, it isnt your job to fix his problems. You could dress up in a grass skirt and coconut bra to feed him grapes all day, and it wouldnt make him happy. Im glad to see you are working to find a job; I think having a break from full time "mom" would be good for you.
Pho, if you're a full time mom how are you getting by right now?
I'm asking because I'm also a mom and I have no clue what I'm going to do.
I need something I can do while still taking care of my D.
I'm with you in 2016 being a great year. It HAS to be. August 2014 my dad died, August 2015 my husband leaves me. August 2016 I win the lottery and meet the man of my dreams. Right?!?
Clarity + detachment= I am feeling so much better. Although it could be the wine talking.
I am not going to be able to fix him. Got it! I can make things better for me and my children though. That I will do.
Here's to the 2016 we've all been working so hard for! I love the clarity + detachment = I am feeling so much better Pho.
You're doing a great job taking care of your kids, I still can't fathom doing all of this with anyone more dependent than a dog.
Kudos to you.
PP
Holy $hit, Pho. Losing my dad was tough (nothing compared to BD), but I can't imagine watching my kids suffer like that. I'm glad they are thriving now. No thanks to your H. Your kids are very lucky to have you. In your previous descriptions of how you deal with your D, it's quite clear you are a wonderful mother.
No HR for me. I quit university, no degree here. Even if I wanted to go back to school I certainly couldn't afford it. Financially and time-wise as well.
Hi, I hope all is well. Thanks for the kind response. I think you are doing a tremendous job at keeping your family together and your marriage alive. No matter what path you chose to follow you should have no regrets about your efforts in trying to make the marriage work. I hope you husband realizes this before its to late and he loses you. Somewhere deep inside his troubled soul is the man you fell in love with. He will have a heavy heart when he wakes up to find he has driven you away and blown up his family with selfish misguided choices.
Be strong pho, better days are coming.
You can write on my thread anytime. My thread may be more interesting with you posting there. I'll have a husband who doesn't talk to me either. Just keep mentioning no sex.
M, what if instead of mentioning no sex, I mention really bad sex? Meditation is not cutting it for me.
On the bright side, (?) I found a Pandora station titled "Break up songs" that I have been blasting when H walks in the door. He hasn't noticed.
Picture this,
50 degrees and sunny, beautiful blue sky with not a cloud in sight, 3 o'clock in the afternoon, driving north on 287 approaching 78. I look out to the west and I see a beautiful hot air balloon floating in the sky.
I thought of when you said you liked them and smiled.
Thank you Mutatio. I read this last night right before I fell asleep and I didn't know how to respond. I was feeling lonely and your message made me feel like I had a friend in the world. Thank you.
I had an interesting night. I went to H's annual holiday office party. I looked good, I mingled, I talked to everyone, except for my H. He had complained during the spewfest back in Feb-May that I am socially retarded at parties. I was so good at this party. I proved him wrong. I don't think he noticed as he spent quite a bit of the party outside smoking. (he was not a smoker pre-BD) The car ride home was almost silent, we got home and he stayed up late on his laptop.
I checked in and saw your message M, and thought, someone in this world is thinking of me and caring about me. Someone thinks of me with kindness and care. I am glad I put a smile on your face Mutatio. You put one on mine and I feel asleep in peace.
Until I woke up with chest pains, but that is another story. My anxiety is so high.
Pho, glad your 180 worked at the holiday party. One thing you forgot to mention - how did it make you feel? More than trying to get you H to notice, did it feel different to mingle? Did you enjoy yourself more? The reason I'm asking is that as we make changes it's important to evaluate which ones will be permanent.
Also, please don't ever think no one cares about you in this world. I've never met you and we only interact peripherally, but your story resonates with me and I find inspiration in your posts.
Now about those chest pains/anxiety - what specifically is the trigger? Anything you can do to lesson that anxiety? I'm asking partially out of a need to find a solution for myself. Yesterday was a mess and I think my body tried to shut down a couple times during anxiety attacks on the couch with my family....
Sci Dad, since BD and the spewfest about my social skills- I am an introvert, but I can talk to people btw- I have gone to at least 10-12 parties and I have done better than usual. I do feel better about myself. I am losing my "uncomfortable" feeling with mingling, still don't really like it, would much prefer small groups or staying home, but I am feeling better about myself in social situations. So it is a good thing and something I will keep up regardless of H.
One thing I realized is that I used to always feel like I had nothing interesting to say, and then I'd say very little. But now I realize that most people's conversation is not all that interesting, they are just looking to talk and be friendly, and asking people about their kids, their jobs, where do they live, just the basic things seems to get them talking and breaks the ice. A glass of wine or two helps as well! I also noticed that H's skills are not so great, and if I keep away from him at parties I do much better, how ironic is that? I am not saying that as a criticism of him, just that he isn't really someone who should be correcting someone else's skills.
I am off to church now. Having chest pains again.
My H and D got into it this morning, she is 100% wrong but she is 14 and H seems to take her on as though its a war instead of trying to find out what is going on with his relationship with his D. It is awful. Really, really awful.
I feel the loneliness also. I think most of us here feel this way. Your situation runs hot and cold. Some days I think your relationship is evolving and days like this I'm fearful. No matter what happens in the future please know that you have many real friends here. I am your friend. The loneliness is so debilitating at times. I come here more then I should but I don't care. I need something that I cannot get from my wife right now, kindness and compassion. If you visit your family up here, if you want, let me know I'll buy you a hot chocolate. Having coffee, here, is a double entendre so I'll stick to hot chocolate.
Anyway I and all your friends here would like for you to share whats troubling you enough to give you chest pains. Please share your troubles. Until then be strong
Mutatio, that would be nice, very nice. I won't be up north for a long time though, maybe by 6 months from now we will both be happily married or Divorced. I certainly hope we are not both still in limbo. So much can change. And I don't want to get you in trouble on this forum! As far as my chest pains. I think its all anxiety.
His impending departure is weighing heavily on me. The fact that he is broken and I really and truly did not break him and cannot fix him is becoming a reality to me. I have "known " that for awhile, but it takes a long time for me to really accept certain things, to really internalize it and "get" it on an emotional level. I am getting it.
Did I tell you all that pre-BD he told me he hated our daughter? That he had no love for his own mother and wished her dead? And then now me. Who is this man? I should be running the other way, not standing here for him. And yet I am.
Last night I talked to H's best friend at work. The one who gives him advice about our daughter, because he has 2 teenagers, the one who he confided in about his EA. Every year at the holiday party we talk about our kids. He asked me how D was and I said so much better since getting out of the hospital. He had no idea what I was talking about. H confided in him about his EA but failed to mention that his daughter was hospitalized for 3 months? The same thing came up last week at Thanksgiving, 2 of H's friends knew all about the EA but nothing about our daughter. The EA apparently was more important in his life than his own daughter's health. It makes me feel sickened, especially since he told his friends how important the EA was to him because he wasn't getting "friendship" from me at home- yet didn't reveal to them that I was spending 100% of my time taking care of our daughter? Its not like I was home watching tv all day and ignoring him. While I was at dr appointments for our child he was out dating! Literally, at the same exact time. (That's how I caught him).
I am so torn. A part of me wants to just file for D and get on with it. I doubt myself lately. Is it the loneliness talking? Or is that I am finally facing reality? Time will tell, I need to keep my emotions in check.
In my mind I have this "1 year timeline" which I don't know where it came from, but I feel like at 1 year post BD I should know where I stand and its coming up and not looking very promising. I am tired. I think that is what it all comes down to, I am very, very tired.
Try to hang on until he leaves for his assignment. Then you will have made it to the eye of the storm. Take the 6 months to assess your situation, how you feel, how your kids feel and how your husband feels.
There is the temptation to just end the suffering by divorcing. It might seem appealing but you may switch one set of problems for another. The loneliness is one of my greatest challenges. It must be very difficult for you as well. You will have more time to spend with friends when you husband goes. You could be lonely and facing reality. Stay focused on the here and now. Tomorrow wil come and you can deal with it then.
I would not cling to timelines to force a decision. You have to weigh the evidence each day and decide if the pain of staying is greater then the pain of leaving. That is a big question and the answer should not be forced. You are the guardian of your precious children and they are relying on you to make right choice for them. This is a big deal.
Use the 6 months to rest, relax and regroup. Be well
Thank you Mutatio. I do not want to divorce. I just sometimes feel like it is hopeless and if we are going to end up D anyway, might as well start the process instead of prolonging it. But, no that is not what I want.
On the positive side, he has agreed to attend family counseling tomorrow. Unfortunately with him leaving so soon, I can't imagine how much we can accomplish in one or two sessions, but it is a step in the right direction. He also took S9 out this weekend and they seemed to bond really well, and keep talking about their experience and how they will make this a regular thing when H gets back this summer. So he is talking about coming back? That is a good sign.
And here is a strange one. A friend of mine posted a picture of me on FB the other day. A very unflattering picture, and I am not photogenic to start with. I am very pale and I just don't photograph well. I was half asleep, drifting in and out and I saw H on FB, he enlarged the picture so my face filled the entire screen and he was staring at it, then he'd look at me, then back at the picture again. Let me remind you this was one ugly picture. I pretended to be asleep- actually was in and out- but didn't say anything. WTF is that all about? I felt awful. I am going to get a great pic of myself and make that my profile picture. He probably wouldn't even look at that one.
For whatever it is worth, for me, detachment was the best thing that happened to me, but I was blessed with an XH who wanted out quickly and didn't drag his feet. While it really was horrible at the time, I realize looking back now that he did me a huge favor and I'm forever grateful for that.
I liked what you said several posts back about focusing on Christmas. My D was final 2 weeks before Christmas last year, so I REALLY struggled with the holiday season, but trying to do little normal things like buying presents and such REALLY helped make a big difference for me.
And I read a few posts back where you mentioned being an introvert. I, too, am a huge introvert by nature, though I have a job dealing with the public, so I am forced to be an extrovert on my professional time. As you probably well know, that is even more difficult for an introvert. But, use the whole introvert thing to your advantage. It really did help me with detachment and moving forward.
You really are doing well. Just hang in there and keep doing whatever you need to do to take care of you.
Thank you Dawn. It's funny, the older I get, the less introverted I become. I love my "alone" time and my quiet time, I really do, but I have more friends now than ever in my life, and I interact with people daily by choice! I am definitely still an introvert though.
Detachment has been so hard for me. There are days that I "get it" and it clicks and I feel so good, but then there are days where I just ache for him. I don't know how to turn it off. I have some little tricks that are helping me, for example when I know its time for him to be coming home, I will put on music, and interact with the kids or get involved with a project around the house, it helps so much to have the positive energy and busyness when he walks in the door so I am not "looking" at him and trying to gauge his mood or look for a greeting, etc. The same at bedtime, I will usually put on music or make a phone call or play with one of the kids- just to stay distracted in a genuine and positive way so that my attention is not on him.
Intellectually I "get it" and I am on board, emotionally, the connection is still so strong.
I will get there. Going to be out tonight when he gets home and again tomorrow night. Then he is leaving for a business trip on Thursday so really only one full night with him this week. That helps too.
pho, trust me when I say I know how you feel about the distractions.. I'm all about it!
I need it whether at home or at work, the less distracted the more out of it I get .. it [censored].
Stay strong! Enjoy your week!
Make today better than yesterday .. thats what I keep saying
Blissfully detached today. Don't know why. Combination of good music and good times with my children. My sons are giving me such a hard time because I referred to a light saber as a sword. As in "could you please take your sword off the table?" Apparently this is the funniest thing ever and worthy of repeating 50x. And blasting Ed Sheeran's album singing with my boys.
I could do this every night for the rest of my life and die happy. No H required to make this magic happen.
How dare you call a light saber a sword, as a card carrying Star Wars geek I'm offended and side with the young padawans in your house lol
It's funny, the older I get, the less introverted I become. I love my "alone" time and my quiet time, I really do, but I have more friends now than ever in my life, and I interact with people daily by choice! I am definitely still an introvert though.
I think it's the same with most people. As I get older it's a lot easier to not give a #$2% what people think about what I say/do.
Detachment has been so hard for me.
I'm certainly not an expert, but I think it's a process with good days and bad days. The hope is that the good days start outnumbering the bad days
Blissfully detached today... I could do this every night for the rest of my life and die happy. No H required to make this magic happen.
I'm so proud of you!
And thank you for helping to start my day off on a positive note.
Just got back from family therapy. It was rough. Really, really rough.
I think H really and truly will never forgive me for all the real and embellished faults of mine. I think there is no love left at all in him. None. Just hurt and blame.
(((pho)))
It is normal to think that, but trust me, it is 100% not true.
Look at your own feelings. Don't they rapidly change throughout the day? His does as well. I had a dream last night that was so real I have been awake for hours and I still feel like it actually happened. It created powerful feelings for my H.
You H goes through the exact same things. Of Course he is blaming you! If he did not blame you, he would have to place the blame on himself. He probably feel so much guilt that if he puts blame on top of that guilt he will break.
Believe nothing of what they say and only 50% of what they believe.
Give him time and he will get out of this stage he is in. You have heard this a thousand times, but just practice patience.
If possible, try and squeeze in a few things today that are just for you. It will combat his treatment of you. And whatever you do, do not believe you are what he said. Maybe some of it was true, but not to the extent that he is using it now.
Just got back from family therapy. It was rough. Really, really rough.
I think H really and truly will never forgive me for all the real and embellished faults of mine. I think there is no love left at all in him. None. Just hurt and blame.
Ouch. I feel your on this Pho, that sounds brutal.
Maybe he's just got a lot of hurt and blame to work through before getting to the real issues. Today's just another day and it's one colored by hurt and blame. Doesn't make them accurate or the truth.
You know you, and nothing anyone can say can change that. Not even a clearly angry H.
Sending you love and strength today.
PP
I'm so sorry. I don't have a any advice. I just feel badly for your very tough situation.
Hi Pho,
I'm sorry that therapy was rough today. It never gets any easier, hearing hurtful things come out of the mouth of the person we love.
It's so easy to absorb their pain, and make it our own.
I met with my IC last night, and was in so much pain, as my xh is on medication that doesn't seem to be working, and he's just raged and screamed at me in the last two weeks. It's so tough. And she let me boohoo on the couch and then when I was ready to hear what she had to say she had the following to say:
-Of course he loves you (to my snot filled wailing on how much I feel XH doesn't love me and wants to erase me and forget me and move on). He wouldn't be expressing such a range of emotions to someone that he "felt nothing for." She said that while it wasn't healthy, it was an indicator that while he was fighting with me - that he still had the love there. Because if he didn't? If he truly were done, he would've blocked me consistently, NC, nothing.
-His feelings are his truth. He rides the rollercoaster with his illness. Some days he loves me and somedays he feels like I am to blame. Those are his truths. But they are not mine.
What are your truths Pho?
Thank you PP and Mona. But it's been almost a year already. At what point do I accept that he isn't going to "come out of this". At what point do I accept that this is the way things are now. The thing is in family therapy, it was my d who brought up some points.
She said that she "hates" H because of the way he treats me. He laughed at her. He laughed! It was a lot more complicated than that. I don't want my child to defend me, I don't want her to feel in the middle. I wish this board was anonymous because I want to say more. I have an IC appointment on Friday, I will hash it out there.
This will sound so pro-divorce, and I'm not. But it's something I've learned.
Sometimes, people cannot be together. It doesn't mean that they don't love one another. It doesn't mean that all is lost. It just means that at that point in time, for who they are, and what their goals are - it's not going to work.
I feel that way about my xh. Most days he feels the same too. It doesn't mean that we don't care, and that we don't love one another - but honestly the healthiest thing for the both of us was to part. And that's a bitter pill to swallow. Maybe down the road we will reconnect. Maybe we won't. But I know that I stood for my marriage and I stood for myself.
He may come out of it in five days. He may come out of it in five weeks. Five years. He may never come out of it. I know you're struggling Pho. Could it be perhaps you're afraid to give up? And that if you let him go, he will suddenly become healthy and ride into the sunset happily ever after? Are you afraid of the stigma of giving up? Honestly, are you just tired and afraid?
What you're going through is traumatic. It truly is. But how you decide to move through this and forward is up to you sweetie. Not him.
--
Additionally - for better or for worse? Sometimes doesn't factor in things like abuse, mental illness, life changes. I think the only person we can truly promise for better or for worse to is ourselves.
Calibri, thank you. I am getting to the point where I believe he has decided that his childhood issues and his need to "redo" things with his parents are his priority over his current family. Definitely more important than me, and probably more important than our children. I am hoping that while he is gone for the next 6 months he will figure things out. I am hoping that, but I am not hopeful. I am realizing that staying with him in his current state of mind and "waiting" is not in my best interests, or that of my children.
I read something yesterday about detachment, that really helped me. It came from a FB posting, hope I am allowed to repost it here:
One of the most important decisions you'll ever have to make is to stop waiting for people in your life to change and realize you are not ‘throwing them under the bus’ by detaching and moving on.
The decision to let go of those who are hell bent on staying messed up and get on with creating the extraordinary life your worthy of living is also the most life enhancing change you’ll ever make. Letting go is excruciatingly painful and will require every fiber of courage you have and then some.
This made me think. The "Extraordinary life" that I am worthy of living is simply a happy life with my family. I just want the simple things in life. I am not asking for much, my "bar" is set pretty low. I have been in crisis mode, trauma mode for far too long. I want peace. I want love. I am so very tired, I just can't keep doing this any more.
I know that feeling all too well. Letting go is the hardest thing I've ever had to do and I haven't even started yet.
Just got back from family therapy. It was rough. Really, really rough.
I think H really and truly will never forgive me for all the real and embellished faults of mine. I think there is no love left at all in him. None. Just hurt and blame.
I'm sorry I've been busy today and haven't posted yet, but remember this - therapy can be a place for some people to say things they don't feel saying in other circumstances. It sounds like your H doesn't really express himself much, and when he's given an opportunity like in therapy he may go over the top. Not only that, but it seems from other things you've said that he might not be able to accept his role in things (he's so fragile he'll crack if anything is his fault). Combined, you are buried in a nonsensical (at least in terms of reality) spew-fest.
Can you escape somewhere for a bit to GAL or be distracted? It might be a good idea to not dwell on anything that was said.
Besides, believe only 0% that he says
SciDad and Calibri, thank you for your words. The thing is, I really do believe that H truly believes that I am the cause of all of the problems with his parents. I would bet money on it.
I had a role. I was in a difficult position, and I do not believe I am to blame, but I did have a role in it. I complained too much instead of getting professional help to figure out how to deal with the problems. I knew H didn't have the skills or perspective to handle the situation well and I just kept pressuring him to do it. Until it all blew up in my face. And now I truly believe I am being made the scapegoat for all of it. I believe that I am going to lose my H because of this. H has shut me out and wants nothing to do with me.
In MC I have asked if we can move forward, if we can establish healthy ways of relating and moving forward and H does not want to. He wants to rehash the past.
I am heading out soon to my dinner group. I truly do not want to go. I want to go to bed and curl up under the covers and cry all night. But I will go. I am beyond sad and defeated. I can NOT stay stuck. I can not.
I am choosing to move forward in a healthy way, to put the past behind me, to model healthy and resilient emotions for my children. It is up to H to make his choice.
I had a role. I was in a difficult position, and I do not believe I am to blame, but I did have a role in it. I complained too much instead of getting professional help to figure out how to deal with the problems. I knew H didn't have the skills or perspective to handle the situation well and I just kept pressuring him to do it. Until it all blew up in my face. And now I truly believe I am being made the scapegoat for all of it. I believe that I am going to lose my H because of this. H has shut me out and wants nothing to do with me.
That sounds exactly like my sitch except with mine was dealing with H's depression and hoarding. I don't think he's capable of fixing it.
Becky, how did I miss that your H has a hoarding problem? My H has depression and about 10 years ago was starting to "hoard" but I managed to nip that one in the bud. It was not at the point of being a "hoarder" but he had a large work van and started the habit of going out every weekend to "moving" sales and buying up or getting for free whatever didn't sell and bringing it home. We were getting very cluttered. My IL's were also going to sales and bringing their large work van loaded with big plastic kids toys about once a month- we had so much stuff it was crazy. At one point I discovered that we had mice and that helped motivate H to help me get rid of things.
He has now gone completely the other direction and is a "minimalist" - has barely any belongings but is constantly shopping to upgrade what he has and then at least he gets rid of the "old" one, but I feel like its part of the same problem just the other end of the spectrum. (I'd much rather be on this end, but still, it is exhausting the amount of effort that he puts into his "stuff". )
H's problem is not severe but definitely serious. His dad had the same problem. He had garage and basement completely full. He's an emotional purchaser and can't let things go. Anxiety fuels it and I think it's in overdrive now.
I was saddened to read your posts today. It must have be a difficult day for you. This is taking a tremendous toll on you. You are a woman who has stood by the man she loves while he fights his demons. Again I shall quote Carl Jung,
"The healthy man does not torture others - generally it is the tortured who turn into torturers."
My hope for you was that you fight the good fight and while doing so your husband has a break through in IC. Then you two could work together at repairing the marriage.
It seems that either your husband is more deeply troubled then it first appeared or he is not making any real progress in IC or in the worst case scenario, both. Each time he has served you another portion of fault and blame you have tried to process the issues in a logical and well balanced manner. The discouraging part is that he is not improving and/or the situation is not getting any better. I am very proud of you. No matter how outrageous his claims have been you have loved him, supported him and tried to be good partner in your marriage.
There have been many times when you have describe the pain you are enduring that I reflect on how I created a similar environment for my wife. For that reason, I would stand up and advocate in his behalf. Your pain is now my concern. You appear to be truly suffering. If this continues the pain of staying could become greater then the pain of leaving.
The six month assignment for your husband is blessing. Live your life in peace and harmony. Strengthen your bonds with your children. Help your children foster better bonds with each other. This time will help you put things in perspective.
It truly saddens me to know you are suffering. Life is change and this to shall pass. Also know we are here for you. Be strong pho, be well
I was saddened to read your posts today. It must have be a difficult day for you. This is taking a tremendous toll on you. You are a woman who has stood by the man she loves while he fights his demons. Again I shall quote Carl Jung,
"The healthy man does not torture others - generally it is the tortured who turn into torturers."
My hope for you was that you fight the good fight and while doing so your husband has a break through in IC. Then you two could work together at repairing the marriage.
It seems that either your husband is more deeply troubled then it first appeared or he is not making any real progress in IC or in the worst case scenario, both. Each time he has served you another portion of fault and blame you have tried to process the issues in a logical and well balanced manner. The discouraging part is that he is not improving and/or the situation is not getting any better. I am very proud of you. No matter how outrageous his claims have been you have loved him, supported him and tried to be good partner in your marriage.
There have been many times when you have describe the pain you are enduring that I reflect on how I created a similar environment for my wife. For that reason, I would stand up and advocate in his behalf. Your pain is now my concern. You appear to be truly suffering. If this continues the pain of staying could become greater then the pain of leaving.
The six month assignment for your husband is blessing. Live your life in peace and harmony. Strengthen your bonds with your children. Help your children foster better bonds with each other. This time will help you put things in perspective.
It truly saddens me to know you are suffering. Life is change and this to shall pass. Also know we are here for you. Be strong pho, be well
I just wanted to support Mutatio's wise and true words. Pho you are doing all that is in your power. Remember your brilliance, your light, your fabulousness, in the quiet moments when you doubt yourself. There is an abundance of love for you on these boards, and while it maybe not the love your heart is aching for, many hearts here beat at times just for you. And while at home if feels that your love is rejected and insufficient to make change, here your love is healing others. I see it everyday.
((((((Pho)))))))
JellyB XXX
(((pho)))
You are too attached to his feelings at the moment. You are not responsible for how he feels. If he told you it was night, when it was 9:00 am would you get your pj's on? What he believes is true is not reality, and you cant get sucked into it.
You do not have to spend your precious energy dealing with his moods. They belong to him. Pile up some positives around you like a wall against his negatives.
I had a role. I was in a difficult position, and I do not believe I am to blame, but I did have a role in it. I complained too much instead of getting professional help to figure out how to deal with the problems. I knew H didn't have the skills or perspective to handle the situation well and I just kept pressuring him to do it. Until it all blew up in my face. And now I truly believe I am being made the scapegoat for all of it. I believe that I am going to lose my H because of this. H has shut me out and wants nothing to do with me.
In MC I have asked if we can move forward, if we can establish healthy ways of relating and moving forward and H does not want to. He wants to rehash the past.
Pho, you remind me so much of myself. There's another poster who you remind me of in some ways - SS06. You might want to read her sitch if you have the desire.
I was in the same situation. XH and I were good - until we hit issues. When the issues hit, I pushed XH to handle the situation. I pushed for him to face his fears. To cut the chord from his toxic parents. To address the issues he had from growing up in a negligent environment with a mentally ill mother who was also a drug addict and alcoholic. I think that deep down I knew he wouldn't be able to do the work, that the wounds were too deep. But I wanted so badly for him TO do it. For him to want to be better. For him to see the potential that I saw in him.
The problem, I see now, is that XH didn't have the skills or perspective to deal with it. And honestly, I don't think he wanted to. I think, in the dysfunction, there was comfort. It was all he knew, and to walk away from it - was unthinkable to him. He couldn't separate love from dysfunction. He thought they were synonymous. And here I was, pushing for him to change - thinking I was helping him grow into a better person, yadda yadda. And he resented me for it. But I think he resented himself more. And then it blew up in my face, he had a mental health crisis, everything he has been hiding from has come to the surface and he can't deal. And now we're divorced.
I often wondered, if when we hit the first bump, if I should've insisted on counseling. If it would've made a difference. If we could've been saved? But that would've required him to be honest and open about his feelings and situations, and address a lot of issues. And IF and this is a big IF he had addressed the issues, I don't know if I would've been in a place to hear them. We had different mindsets on what we thought were the issues, and he wasn't strong enough or willing to do the work.
It's hard, because I am such a strong personality. I am hell on wheels and then some. And I think that I was too much for him. That he constantly felt that he had to be something for me. Something that he felt that he should provide. When all I wanted was honesty and love.
I digress, but the point is this. Pho, own your part of it. Learn from it, work on it. But do not adsorb the responsibilities for his part.
y
Pho - I love the quotes below. Keep your chin up. I'm confident you will be able to walk with strength and grace.
FB Post
"One of the most important decisions you'll ever have to make is to stop waiting for people in your life to change and realize you are not ‘throwing them under the bus’ by detaching and moving on.
The decision to let go of those who are hell bent on staying messed up and get on with creating the extraordinary life your worthy of living is also the most life enhancing change you’ll ever make. Letting go is excruciatingly painful and will require every fiber of courage you have and then some."
Calibri
"I digress, but the point is this. Pho, own your part of it. Learn from it, work on it. But do not adsorb the responsibilities for his part. "