Wife confronted me this morning asked me it i still loved her. I said yes i do always will. But then she asked me why i dont say i love you anymore. I didnt know what to say i said i guess its cause you wanted space and i dont want to say it just so you will say it back. She said its hurtful and accused me of being mean. Again i feel like im in to deep over my head here since i havent read the DR book yet. When she asks me questions like this i realy struggle with how i should respond. Any thoughts?
I forgot i also told her i feel confused and that im not sure what to say or do these days. Ugh I suck!
Wife confronted me this morning asked me it i still loved her. I said yes i do always will.
Why exactly did you say this? You ALWAYS will love her?No matter what she does? That seems like youre giving her an awful lot of power over you.
But then she asked me why i dont say i love you anymore. I didnt know what to say i said i guess its cause you wanted space and i dont want to say it just so you will say it back. She said its hurtful and accused me of being mean.
Let me get this straight. She's messing around with another guy and YOU are the mean one? Why are you professing to her how much you love her? Are her actions WORTHY of your love?
I forgot i also told her i feel confused and that im not sure what to say or do these days.
Yeah. Cut that crap out, real quick.
Quick recap:
- She fools around with other guy
- She continues to message him
- She stays out without remorse
Let me ask you this: are you content to wait around as her Plan B?
I dont know I have unconditional love for her. She is my W. I dont aways love everything she does or everything about her. However even with the negatives i still have thay feeling of love for her. How does having a that feeling of love give her power over me. Nope Her actions are not worthy of my love when she lies and cheats true.
I guess i should have said something like i want the words to mean something and im not always sure anymore after your recent actions how much I love you. Could i tell her I used to say it to get confirmaion she loves me back and that id rather not have to ask for the confirmation that she loves me?
I never know what to say when she springs these kind of questions on me my knee jerk reaction is to say something thay makes her feel better. I have to resist that. But im just never sure whay else to say instead.
Azz is spot on. Knock that crap out.
How about, you say, "really???" OR "are you serious?" Then you walk away. You go find something to do, don't be angry or worried. You are a man, right.
No need to be snotty or dickish, just calm / confident and to the point, the less you say, the more she will hear.
I dont know I have unconditional love for her. She is my W. I dont aways love everything she does or everything about her. However even with the negatives i still have thay feeling of love for her.
Yes. I understand. You love her.
But TELLING her you will ALWAYS love her? So, she can do whatever she wants, hurt you in whatever way possible, sleep with as many other guys as she wants, and there youll be. Ready to take her back with open arms because of your undying love?
Is that right?
How does having a that feeling of love give her power over me.
Its not about the feeling of love you have right now. Its TELLING her about this UNBENDING, ETERNAL love that you have. Read what I wrote above. How does that NOT give her incredible power?
Nope Her actions are not worthy of my love when she lies and cheats true.
So why are you telling her right now how much you love her?
I guess i should have said something like i want the words to mean something and im not always sure anymore after your recent actions how much I love you.
Keep It Simple, Stupid.
You dont need to wax on about your feelings and the pain and your love and so on. Like Zephyr said, she wants to know why you dont say you love her....."Really?"
Could i tell her I used to say it to get confirmaion she loves me back and that id rather not have to ask for the confirmation that she loves me?
Nope. Now's not the time to be discussing any of this. Youd be wasting your breath.
I never know what to say when she springs these kind of questions on me my knee jerk reaction is to say something thay makes her feel better. I have to resist that. But im just never sure whay else to say instead.
She messes around with another man, and YOU want to make HER feel better about it. Am I understanding correctly?
Im really not trying to be harsh. Im not trying to be mean. I was in the EXACT same scenario as you. I did the EXACT same things you want to do. None of it helped. None of it mattered. All of it just made things worse. I dont want you to make the same mistakes I did.
Please listen to Azz here. he is spot on. Your feelings about her right now should be for you.
When she says things like "..it's hurtful.." Just say it's hurtful for her continuing contact with OM. Then walk away. She will of course deny everything. If she gets to the point where she says she no longer talks with OM them ask her to send him a NC letter that you approve and get full access to her phone and email. If that is not acceptable to her then you know where you stand.
The guys are right about her asking you those type of questions. We understand you love the woman. You do not have to convince us. Right now, and I hope you'll understand what I mean, this is not about giving in to her b/c you love her so much. It is about being stronger than her, and being the head of your home. How can she respect you as a man when you roll over and stick your paws up in the air? I know I harp a lot on men showing their inner male strength, b/c I know that's what women need, and especially a WW.
I can tell you are soft hearted and easygoing. You are the good, nice-guy. You are also the kind of guy a WW eats for lunch. You have to set boundaries that have consequences, or else she will never feel sexual love for you. She will disrespect you so much that she will deliberately do things to despise you. I'm sure you don't want it to reach that level.
If you could find Starsky and flag him down, he is the best at telling a LBH what to say to a WW. I've not seen him stumped, yet!
If the W has said she wants to S or get a D, then you have the perfect opportunity when she asks you why you don't say ILY or kiss her, etc., to give her a truth dart.
If you don't know what to say, just give her a "look", or as one of the guys said, "Seriously" or "You're kidding".
Remember, if you say something to her that asks her a question, it will turn into a R talk. You don't have to answer at all, if you don't know what to say.
Could i tell her I used to say it to get confirmaion she loves me back and that id rather not have to ask for the confirmation that she loves me?
No, I don't think you should tell her at this time. Maybe after the M has been reconciled.
I never know what to say when she springs these kind of questions on me my knee jerk reaction is to say something thay makes her feel better.
Your job, presently, is not about helping her feel better. She needs to face the music, and not be protected by you. If you love her for real, then you'll be firm and not fall back to a weaken position. Always maintain a position of strength, leadership, and integrity.
When she takes you off guard with something, just look at her and say nothing. If it is something totally ridiculous, look at her, shake your head and walk away. That tells a WW a lot more than words.
Never allow her to put you on trial about your past mistakes or what you are or aren't doing now. She is the one who messed this up, and she has to be the one to clean it up. She doesn't clean it up by blaming you for her mess. In fact, one of Starsky's quotes was, "This is your mess. You clean it up!" Bear in mind, that you can say these things without sounding like a monster. You don't have to cuss, yell at her, etc. Just say it in a calm but firm tone of voice. No pleading or weak, tones. You have to start doing this to gain her respect in you as a man.
Thanks for all the support everybody. I will try my best to be Strong Jeff.
I can tell you are soft hearted and easygoing. You are the good, nice-guy. You are also the kind of guy a WW eats for lunch. You have to set boundaries that have consequences, or else she will never feel sexual love for you. She will disrespect you so much that she will deliberately do things to despise you. I'm sure you don't want it to reach that level.
You are correct and i am soft hearted and easy going the NMMNG rings very true with me. Also you are right in mw noy wanting things to reach that level. I need to get working on setting boundaries i think i might need some coaching i been trying to read all about boundaries and trying to get a grip on them.
I want to set a boundary around her relationship with the OM. I will give a quick recap of what i know what she thinks i know and whats been said about it to this point then i will post what i am thinking of saying.
What i know: i know she talked sexually and kissed this guy. I know she continued talking to the guy and being flirty after she said she would dial it back to being just freinds. I also know she has met up with him several times after after she said she would just friends. I know they have been going more then talking but i dont know how far they have gone but i suppose i would assume they have banged.
What she thinks i know: she only thinks i know they kissed and talked sexually. As far as shes concerned she probably thinks she has covered her tracks well. She thinks im ok with them having a professional relationship and a codial freindship outside work.
What i have said: i origonally told here is was ok with cordial freindship as in one similar the kind i would have with one of her freinds. I dont text her freinds. This in hindsight is obviously a mistake i never realized how attched she could possibly be to this guy since ive never ever even been close to the situation she is in before.
My Boudary To Wife:
I realize you like this OM and you feel like you dont want to lose his freindship However, you continued texting and freindship with him makes me feel anxious and if this continues i will be unable put any focus on fixing our marrage.
What do you think?
To me, that boundary sounds weak. There is a third party in your marriage just now, and truly there is no real R for you guys while that's the case.
I think it would be stonger to say that you're not willing to live in an open marriage, where your W's attention is focused on an OP in this way...and if she continues, you'll need to be prepared to enforce your boundary.
My Boudary To Wife:
I realize you like this OM and you feel like you dont want to lose his freindship However, you continued texting and freindship with him makes me feel anxious and if this continues i will be unable put any focus on fixing our marrage.
How about not limiting it to just this OM? What if you said, "I will not live in an open M. That includes affairs of
any kind
and inappropriate friendships. If you continue contacting this OM, I will assume you have made your choice and I will proceed with a divorce".
Now then, if you can't stick to it, then don't say it. But I'll tell you up front that you cannot bluff her. You don't dare tell her something like this and then back out. You have to be tough, very tough or she'll play you for a bigger fool than she already has. All WW's play their H for a fool. They are disgusted and have no respect for him, so the only way he can really gain ground is to be strong enough to make a believer out of her. He may even have to go as far as filing for a D, but IMHO, he stands a better chance than waiting around to see if she's going to end the contacting with other men. Everyone does not agree with me on that point, it's just my opinion. Your WW needs to believe you will not tolerate such behavior in your M, and that she could very well lose you over this OM.
If this is too strong for your stomach, then we can work on another way to state a boundary.
Thanks sotto! Am also struggling with how to bring forward boundaries to my wife do i just bring it up outa the blue when were together at home maybe before bed or something. Or do i wait untill she is texting im and i clearly know about it or is there another way thay works best?
Its quite strong for my nice guy taste but im still only halfway though NMMNG and working on that. I think in all reality its the truth im not willing to live in an open marrage but i do feel like some time might be needed to help her snap out of her delusions/fog.
Hi Strong. I don't think 'allowing some time' will help her 'snap out.' I think consequences do that, but that all takes time. What consequences may there be? No longer ML, not sharing the marital bed, separating, financial, impact on kids, perception of others. If you do nothing other than wait and hope she 'snaps out' none of these consequences unfold. I'm not saying be mean or punish her. I'm saying you may want to take protective steps in the face of this threat to your marriage, peace of mind and wellbeing.
For me, I took the protective measure of separating straightaway, but remained willing to discuss things and potentially focus on the M together for a few months. This was all pre-DB. Once I started DBing, I stopped initiating contact and there's been very little contact since. So your actions will have consequences (for you and her) as mine have. You have to be prepared to 'live' whatever path you take.
I'm happy with my path, because I could never have lived with H knowing he was so infatuated (and sleeping with) someone else. I respect that others may respond differently but it was a no-brainer for me. I knew instantly.
For your wife to snap out of it you have to create a situation where snapping out of it is a better option. Doing nothing will get nothing. Defining boundaries and taking swift and certain action when violated is how you create that situation. Being weak only prolongs the agony and does little to change the A.
You have an intruder in your house threatening your family. If you don't think this is a threat to your family you really need to snap out of it yourself. Do you wait for the threat to go away by itself?
I know i need to be strong and take protective steps however i havent realy entertained the idea or leaving or seperating. I dont want to leave s1. I realize this sitch may come to a point where that is nessesary.
I dont plan on doing nothing i am doing my best working on detathment, following sandi's rules, working on GAL, trying to get a grasp on setting boundaries and all that good stuff.
My only point was isnt an affair like and addiction wouldnt it be something that takes some time to kick it even once you have made the decision to kick it. Ive never had those feelings she is having but i would expect it to be nearly impossible to just stop the A on a dime. Maybe im wrong to think that and u should expect immediate turn around as soon as i set a boundary around the OM or Inappropriat relationships.
As long as OM is still in contact nothing will change. If you want a change then set a boundary of NC, no open marriage, and take an action if it continues. If your W continues then do you really want to be in an open marriage anyway? How long? But that's my way, I take action.
Actions are strong, words are weak, and doing nothing is approval.
StrongJ,
Take Sandi's advice - its very tough love and honestly, not for the weak at heart. It took me a long time to realize just how valuable her advice is and honestly at the time I was too weak to hear it. As the others have said after her, keeping up with the same behavior won't cause her to change. Think of it as how you would deal with a child - what happens with a child when you keep telling them to stop something or else, but you never do the "or else?" What do they do - keep on doing it! - and what message does that send?
As long as OM is still in contact nothing will change. If you want a change then set a boundary of NC, no open marriage, and take an action if it continues. If your W continues then do you really want to be in an open marriage anyway? How long? But that's my way, I take action.
Actions are strong, words are weak, and doing nothing is approval.
I agree 100% trying to learn best ways to take action I suppose and I feel like i should read DR book first. Would it be benifical before trying to take action or what do you guys think? I should be getting it very soon.
StrongJ,
Take Sandi's advice - its very tough love and honestly, not for the weak at heart. It took me a long time to realize just how valuable her advice is and honestly at the time I was too weak to hear it. As the others have said after her, keeping up with the same behavior won't cause her to change. Think of it as how you would deal with a child - what happens with a child when you keep telling them to stop something or else, but you never do the "or else?" What do they do - keep on doing it! - and what message does that send?
Agreed and i get the idea at this point i havent set a boundary for NC or no Open M. Origonally when i found out I have told her the relationship she was having was in appropriate IMO and she said she would dial it back to freindship zone anyways i explained all this above i guess it just comes down to me setting new boundary around it and following through with action if it continues. Thanks!
it just comes down to me setting new boundary around it and following through with action if it continues.
Be careful, the boundary is around YOU not around the behavior.
"Stop talking to OM"is not the same as
"I wont be around you while you are talking to OM"If you try something like the first way, then she will just rebel against you.
If the W has said she wants to S or get a D, then you have the perfect opportunity when she asks you why you don't say ILY or kiss her, etc., to give her a truth dart
I want to get back to this statement she had danced around the subject of needing time apart but has not specifically called it S or D. What is this truth dart you talk abou?
Awesome piece of advice, Azzork!
it just comes down to me setting new boundary around it and following through with action if it continues.
Be careful, the boundary is around YOU not around the behavior.
"Stop talking to OM"is not the same as
"I wont be around you while you are talking to OM"If you try something like the first way, then she will just rebel against you.
Ive been reading up alot about boundries and difference between them and being controlling i think im getting a better grip on it. Makes sence your example. Thanks
If the W has said she wants to S or get a D, then you have the perfect opportunity when she asks you why you don't say ILY or kiss her, etc., to give her a truth dart
I want to get back to this statement she had danced around the subject of
needing time apart but has not specifically called it
S or D. What is this truth dart you talk abou?
What is the difference here?
Also, a truth dart is a few words you can say when she asks you something ridiculous. Im way too wordy to give you good examples. But basically, when she asks you why you dont kiss her anymore, you tell her that you dont kiss people in relationships with other people. Or something like that.
Agreed no differance think i get the idea. What does it matter if shes asked for S or D. Otherwise you wouldnt want to use thw truth dart?
What does it matter if shes asked for S or D. Otherwise you wouldnt want to use thw truth dart?
No....I think they are always good to use. But the more laughable the situation, the easier it is. You know, if you are piecing the relationship back together, then you should listen to her questions and complaints. But if shes filed for divorce and is mad you dont kiss her anymore, it becomes easy to fire those darts.
No....I think they are always good to use. But the more laughable the situation, the easier it is. You know, if you are piecing the relationship back together, then you should listen to her questions and complaints. But if shes filed for divorce and is mad you dont kiss her anymore, it becomes easy to fire those darts.
OK I get the idea. She thinks we were trying to work on getting M on track has continued relationship with OM so id say im not peicing however she probably thinks i dont know about here continued excessive talking and meeting up with OM outside work. I guess thats whats confusing me the most.
Had couple questions earlier with regards to sandi's rules didnt realy see them covered in there and didnt see any responce yet so i thought id bring it up again
I am in the habbit of calling my W love or dear or hun and other terms of endearment. Do those go out the window with saying i love you?
Also, when W comes to me asking how she looks or is digging for a compliment. What is the best corse of action?
I am in the habbit of calling my W love or dear or hun and other terms of endearment. Do those go out the window with saying i love you?
What do you think?
Also, when W comes to me asking how she looks or is digging for a compliment. What is the best corse of action?
Treat her like you would if she were a boarder in your house. Dont be rude. Dont be overly gushy. "You look nice" is fine. "I love the way the blue in your dress brings out your eyes" is probably a little much.
I am in the habbit of calling my W love or dear or hun and other terms of endearment. Do those go out the window with saying i love you?
What do you think?
Also, when W comes to me asking how she looks or is digging for a compliment. What is the best corse of action?
Treat her like you would if she were a boarder in your house. Dont be rude. Dont be overly gushy. "You look nice" is fine. "I love the way the blue in your dress brings out your eyes" is probably a little much.
I think no to terms of endearment think. Gota break the habbit start calling her my name.
And i suppose that makes senve for compliments not trying to win her back though flattery. Need to get that lil thing called respect.
When I discovered the EA on 10/30/15, I stopped any terms of endearment.
She is called by her first name.
I haven't said I love you in 3 weeks.
I HAVE told her she looked nice in the morning, or that she picked out a nice shoe for work.
How would a FRIEND speak to her?
How would a FRIEND speak to her?
No. You dont want to be a FRIEND.
You want to be friendLY.
I think that there is a big difference there.
I don't know what you're confused about. Your W is still in A with OM, never stopped. She just gave you enough to get you off her back about it. So why on earth would you say ILY or any other term of endearment? That's just her keeping you in her control for continued cake-eating. You can stand up for yourself or not, it's all up to you what you're really willing to live with.
"Your W is still in A with OM, never stopped. She just gave you enough to get you off her back about it."
I receive comments like this from others. It is difficult to accept but very very true. It is why I say the fog goes both ways.
The LBS can become so jaded that any little crumb tossed their way looks like a giant slice of the best cake in the world. The reality is it is WWs cake and only they are eating.
2point0, I was in that fog too. Getting a crumb and latching onto it. Although my W ended contact immediately, I know this as fact, she would never tell me the truth about the A. I found out the truth, or at least as much as I can get, from others. She would even lie in the face of irrefutable proof. But I would get the "there is nothing else..." with the "I love you" and I would feel better until the next infusion of truth. Over and over I went through this cycle until I just had enough. I said "It's me or the lies, you can't have both" and booted her out of the bedroom. It took a few days but she gave up and came clean. Whether it's lies or still being in the A, until you take a stand, a REAL stand, nothing will change. She will want you to say ILY and such just to make you think she is done with the A.
I know the feeling mvgfwd. It is incredible what they are able to come up with when A is in play.
I don't know what you're confused about. Your W is still in A with OM, never stopped. She just gave you enough to get you off her back about it. So why on earth would you say ILY or any other term of endearment? That's just her keeping you in her control for continued cake-eating. You can stand up for yourself or not, it's all up to you what you're really willing to live with.
The confusion had nothing to do with staying with her if she continues the A and i dont say ILY anymore and im dropping the hun and love i used to call her i slip up out of habit and all her hun. The confusion to me is how i go from telling her origonally that id be willing to work on fixing our M and go to MC and all that stuff to all of a sudden taking a hard stand and setting boundaries with out telling her i know the affair has continued. I have started and am doing pretty decent following sandi's rules. I guess i just bring the boundaries forward out of the blue and if she doesnt adjust accordingly i will move forward accordingly. I guess i feel like it would be better to say i know your still emotonally invested with this OM and that you talk him and carry on in appropriate relationship and then put out the boundary saying i cant live in an open M and yada yada yada. Maybe i just need to get reading thay book.
setting boundaries with out telling her i know the affair has continued.
I guess i just bring the boundaries forward out of the blue and if she doesnt adjust accordingly i will move forward accordingly.
How is it "out of the blue"?
Here's what I picture:
- StrongJ's wife texts OM
- StrongJ sees StrongJ's W texting OM
- StrongJ sets boundary on texting OM
- StrongJ walks away
Its not like she comes home today, and you spring this on her. You wait until she does something. Like the other night:
- StrongJ's wife stays out until 1130
- StrongJ goes to bed
- StrongJ discusses with StrongJ's W the next day: "If you plan to stay out like that again, I will do X/Y/Z."
setting boundaries with out telling her i know the affair has continued.
I guess i just bring the boundaries forward out of the blue and if she doesnt adjust accordingly i will move forward accordingly.
How is it "out of the blue"?
Here's what I picture:
- StrongJ's wife texts OM
- StrongJ sees StrongJ's W texting OM
- StrongJ sets boundary on texting OM
- StrongJ walks away
Its not like she comes home today, and you spring this on her. You wait until she does something. Like the other night:
- StrongJ's wife stays out until 1130
- StrongJ goes to bed
- StrongJ discusses with StrongJ's W the next day: "If you plan to stay out like that again, I will do X/Y/Z."
Was more like 12:30 the other night but its all good :p
Shes pretty careful about texting him only when im not around. But i know shes texting him alot when im not around. I guess im thinking more along the lines of setting a boundary like Sandi said around myself not able to live im an open M or all inapropriate relationships and all.
I guess im thinking more along the lines of setting a boundary like Sandi said around myself not able to live im an open M or all inapropriate relationships and all.
Right, but it has to be based on something. I wouldnt just randomly come up to her and say this. So when you see her doing it. Or when you find something blatant that she has done.
Again, just my opinion.
I printed out a copy of the phone records showing the OM number all over. Showed it to my W and set my NC boundary. I didn't wait to just stumble on her texting him. That means you actually have to look who she is texting now that is pretty hard to do. And you don't know if it's just a one off text or and ongoing thing. What's the worst that could happen with the phone records? She gets mad you're checking up on her. That doesn't even reach the "I don't care" level for me.
I printed out a copy of the phone records showing the OM number all over. Showed it to my W and set my NC boundary. I didn't wait to just stumble on her texting him. That means you actually have to look who she is texting now that is pretty hard to do. And you don't know if it's just a one off text or and ongoing thing. What's the worst that could happen with the phone records? She gets mad you're checking up on her. That doesn't even reach the "I don't care" level for me.
I know for certain its on going thing she sent 900 text messages to OM this past week.
Yes, I was merely suggesting that the idea of stumbling on your W did not seem like a good strategy for laying down the NC boundary.
I think your NC boundary should include something about full access to phone, email, etc. If she doesn't accept the terms then you have to take action on your boundary.
I already have full access now i know all passwords and such but she covers her tracks fairly well. Id have to get some sort of spy app installed on her phone that tracks everything she does.
Another evening in with s1 another night getting stood up for a chance to go to the gym. W went to some dinner event for her work. Startes at 5:30 its past 10:00 now seems like an awfully long dinner eh? Well t minus 60 minutes and im hoping into bed. Maybe should switch door handles with the bathroom so i can lock her out of the bedroom.
You don't need to tell her how you know she is in contact with OM. You can say you just know.
Well, you got some time to think through what you're going to do. Be Strong and direct in your actions.
Remember: Actions are strong, words are weak, and doing nothing is approval.
Also remember: Believe nothing they say and only half what they do.
Thanks mvgfwd2 i apreciate all the kind support and advice. Looks like shes not lying this time called the hotel where the dinner happened and they told me dinner was still going on and scheduled to end at 11:00. Wife texted 5 minutes after i called the hotel and said she was on route home.
900 messages?!?
WOW, def. call her out on that $hit. and no, it won't just blow over... The secrecy is fueling the A fire and her being "naugty" is only turning her on more.
NO F...N' CONTACT, EVER AGAIN. NO FRIENDS, NO NOTHING!
Remember: Actions are strong, words are weak, and doing nothing is approval.
mvgfwd2 would you please explain the last part of this?
Wife does nothing around the house anymore. Or maybe im just noticing now that Im making concious effort not to do as much caretaking around the house. I suppose now would be time to set a boundary
If you do nothing and the wayward spouse knows you what is going on, it is the same as saying whatever is going on is OK.
StrongJ, I hope your boundary is focused on the ongoing A and not the housework.
If you do nothing and the wayward spouse knows you KNOW what is going on, it is the same as saying whatever is going on is OK.
StrongJ, I hope your boundary is focused on the ongoing A and not the housework.
Do i only set one boundary?
If you do nothing and the wayward spouse knows you KNOW what is going on, it is the same as saying whatever is going on is OK.
I would say my wife knows i know exactly whats going on she thinks i think their just freinds and they only talk about work and sports and dont text much. But i know better just havent called her out yet still trying to learn best way to do that.
I guess I don't understand the hesitation. You seem to be afraid to confront your W about her A. What is your fear?
You cannot nice your W back. The only way for her to stop is cold turkey. She NEEDS to respect you and you allowing this $hit to happen right under your nose does not make her respect you.
GROW A PAIR!!!
What are you afraid of? You are the water boy to the OM already. Call her out on her $hit and start getting some respect you deserve!!!
And don't be a WUSS. Being a WUSS is so unattractive...
I guess I don't understand the hesitation. You seem to be afraid to confront your W about her A. What is your fear?
My hesitation is the fact that i havent read DR book yet. Last time confronted her i obviously botched it big time. Also i though sandi said that confronting her at this point would be a waste of time. Maybe i miss understood.
Looking for the post where i thought it said not to reconfront her cant find it maybe i dreamed it. Lol
I think you misunderstood. sandi said right now you have to gain some respect from your W. Re-read what she said. I believe it is in line with not letting your W have her A in secret and setting boundaries.
I think where you got confused is the fact you W is going to do what she wants and you can't stop it. But that doesn't mean you don't confront her about it. She may continue but she has to know that you won't be a back up plan or an cowering H.
Right now your W thinks she has you in the dark and says things to keep you there. Like the "why don't you say ILY" stuff. After you would confront her about the ongoing A and lay out your boundaries is when you work on your GAL activities and DB'ing.
You are also going to feel like you need to do something urgently or it will get worse. It will if you react without the right skills, it won't if you just let it be while you learn the skills, from the book and enhance them here. If you doubt this, remember it took months, if not years for your relationship (R) to reach this point, a few days or weeks isn't going to change things that much and IF you get it right, you stand a vey good chance, in time, of getting things back on track.
May not have explained myself as far as she knows I think she has ended the afair i havent reconfronted her after i found out its continues. I guess u dont know what to say because ive been told not to talk about what ive learned here i would wana say im stepping back to work on me but i guess that defeats the whole idea and im just not sure what to say these days.
Okay. Confronting her will do no good at all. And please do not tell her you are working on yourself, etc.
Thus the hesitation. I dont think miss understood sandi maybe she can elaberate. Also avanti's advice is pretty stright forward read DR dont act too quickly without correct tools.
Sandi is saying that just going to WW and saying "I know you're still talking to OM" is not going to help you in any way. The confrontation itself will not solve anything. In fact, if you aren't prepared, it could just lead her to flaunt it in front of you -or- she could just take it deeper underground.
The point is that you need to be prepared for the incredible [censored] storm that's coming if/when you do confront her. If not, things will only go further downhill.
Sandi is saying that just going to WW and saying "I know you're still talking to OM" is not going to help you in any way. The confrontation itself will not solve anything. In fact, if you aren't prepared, it could just lead her to flaunt it in front of you -or- she could just take it deeper underground.
The point is that you need to be prepared for the incredible [censored] storm that's coming if/when you do confront her. If not, things will only go further downhill.
I dont beleive i am prepared at this point I havent read DR book yet. I have however come to terms with the fact that i cannot fix/change my W and the need to detach I do beleive I'm coming along well with that. Ive also come to terms with the fact that I cannot live in an open M and i need to set that boundary. Additionally i am feeling better about the possability of this not ending well & ending in D.
This is also my point of confusion since i already did contront her once and im being advised to follow rules GAL all this stuff which as far a i know is part of DBing.
Don't be a dweeb. Take your nuts out of her purse.
Don't be a dweeb. Take your nuts out of her purse.
I dont apreciate the way you speak to me. If your going to keep talking so disrespectfully i will be forced to stop posting here atleast until i finish reading DR book. I am 100% onboard with calling out my W on her confinued contact with the OM. My only hesitation is i dont want to screw it up again. If you gave me a reason why i dont have to finish reading DR instead of just insulting me might be more likely to take your advice.
The other thing that scares me about confronting her with evidence and giving her my boundary is that she will go underground even further and i will have struggle in the future to know if she is still contact with OM.
This sh*t is coming to a head. Just got this text from my wife
"You know if you are trying to get a message across to me you might be succeeding but I don't even like coming home anymore with the exception of S1. So keep being so nice"
Ok here comes the storm I better get that book and start reading.
She got home from gym and started asking about what my problem was and was grilling me why i wasn't talking to here and all this stuff.
I couldnt think what i should say. All i could remember was reading all about setting boundaries so i took the plunge and told here im not ok with her maintaining a relationship with the OM and that i cannot live in an OM. Then i told her if she continues along the path shes been on i ill be unable to stay married to her and that i will have to move along with my life.
She didnt know what to say i just asked her if she understands me. She said yes. Then i went on to continue feeding S1 his lunch. W just staired at me for a good half hour while i played with S1 on the floor. She started crying a bit i ignored it. She started into you dont care your dont love me. I just told her i dont love how shes been carrying on with OM. She told me she doesnt know what she wants and that she didnt think it was fair to stay with me while she doesnt know. I just said what ever. Then i said we gota go to my parents for dinner we had planned she said she doesnt want to go. So s1 and i started getting ready to go. She started crying again saying that i care more about going to my parents place then our relationship. I just said life can't stop because were having relationship problems. Now s1 and i are at my parents watching nascar with grandma and grandpa. Yikes trying to stay stong any thoughts?
Let me try to help clarify about truth darts, since I made the comment. (Btw, Azzork gave a good answer.)
I believe I responded to you telling us you weren't sure what to say when she asks why you don't say ILY, kiss her, etc. Then you wanted to know about truth darts.
Originally Posted By: StrongJ
Originally Posted By: sandi2
If the W has said she wants to S or get a D, then you have the perfect opportunity when she asks you why you don't say ILY or kiss her, etc., to give her a truth dart
I want to get back to this statement she had danced around the subject of needing time apart but has not specifically called it S or D. What is this truth dart you talk abou?
I believe I confused you by saying if she has mentioned a S or D, you have an opportunity for using a truth dart. Just forget the part I said about S or D, in order for me to explain the truth dart. I just wanted to make sure you understand, b/c you are getting a lot of information before you've received the book.
Azzork asked what is the difference (referring to your WW wanting time apart, but not specifically calling it a S or a D. Then Azzork answered your question about giving a truth dart.
Originally Posted By: Azzork
What is the difference here?
Also, a truth dart is a few words you can say when she asks you something ridiculous. Im way too wordy to give you good examples. But basically, when she asks you why you dont kiss her anymore, you tell her that you dont kiss people in relationships with other people. Or something like that.
This is where it seems confused:
Agreed no differance think i get the idea. What does it matter if shes asked for S or D. Otherwise you wouldnt want to use thw truth dart?
The truth dart I suggested was to use when she asked why you were not saying ILY, kissing, her etc. And, you are right, it doesn't really matter if she's said anything about S or D. However, you WOULD give her the truth dart responding to her rediculous question. The truth dart is about her cheating.
Example:
WW: "Why don't you say ILY, and why don't you kiss me"?
YOU: "B/c you are having an inappropriate relationship with another man"!
If the WW has mentioned a S or D, then you could reply by saying something like, "Why would I tell you ILY, or kiss you? You want to leave me". If she hasn't said anything about a S or D, then you would say something about her inappropriate relationship with OM. Make sense?
You aim the truth dart right for the heart. It is to be quick and short. It is not an opening to have a relationship discussion. No fussing, no arguments or getting into debates. You say it and then walk away, leaving her to feel the sting of the truth. As Azzork said, when she asks such redicious questions, hit her with a truth dart to show the WW's question is bazaar. It is not to be vindictive or punitive. It is more like verbally throwing cold water in
]
Originally Posted By: Azzork
No....I think they are always good to use. But the more laughable the situation, the easier it is. You know, if you are piecing the relationship back together, then you should listen to her questions and complaints. But if shes filed for divorce and is mad you dont kiss her anymore, it becomes easy to fire those darts.
Is the picture clearer, now?
I get the idea of the truth dart i think.
On a side note turns out w just found out the truth i put an app on her phone forward messages from OM to my email and to count how often she messages him. I suppose shes probably mad
. Im scared.
I fear i will not be able to avoid the relationship convorsation when i get home. What should i do?
Ok here comes the storm I better get that book and start reading.
She got home from gym and started asking about what my problem was and was grilling me why i wasn't talking to here and all this stuff.
I couldnt think what i should say. All i could remember was reading all about setting boundaries so i took the plunge and told here im not ok with her maintaining a relationship with the OM and that i cannot live in an OM. Then i told her if she continues along the path shes been on i ill be unable to stay married to her and that i will have to move along with my life.
She didnt know what to say i just asked her if she understands me. She said yes. Then i went on to continue feeding S1 his lunch. W just staired at me for a good half hour while i played with S1 on the floor. She started crying a bit i ignored it. She started into you dont care your dont love me. I just told her i dont love how shes been carrying on with OM. She told me she doesnt know what she wants and that she didnt think it was fair to stay with me while she doesnt know. I just said what ever. Then i said we gota go to my parents for dinner we had planned she said she doesnt want to go. So s1 and i started getting ready to go. She started crying again saying that i care more about going to my parents place then our relationship. I just said life can't stop because were having relationship problems. Now s1 and i are at my parents watching nascar with grandma and grandpa. Yikes trying to stay stong any thoughts?
Wow! For a guy who didn't feel ready, you handled it like a pro.
Frankly, I was concerned about you taking some type action before you had the boundary, consequences, etc. clear in your mind.
On a side note turns out w just found out the truth i put an app on her phone forward messages from OM to my email and to count how often she messages him. I suppose shes probably mad . Im scared.
Are you scared b/c she's probably mad?
On a side note turns out w just found out the truth i put an app on her phone forward messages from OM to my email and to count how often she messages him. I suppose shes probably mad . Im scared.
Are you scared b/c she's probably mad?
Not scared cause she may be mad she deserved me snooping she should have thoght of that before she cheated.
Im afraid im in over my head here. Dono what to do when i get home. Shes gona wana talk about the R thats for sure. Just dont know what to say. I guess i just say nothing let her lead the convo and say i dono or nothing or fire a few truth darts?
I didn't know about the phone app. How did she find out?
Well, if she confronts you about the app, just keep your cool. Don't deny it or give some milky excuse. Just tell her she wouldn't tell you the truth about her and OM, so you did what you had to do. (Now don't go telling others that I supported the idea of the phone app, that's not what I'm doing. I'm just trying to tell you what do to at this point.)
Yes, she'll be ticked, b/c she was resorting to tears (which, if real, that's good) but now, she'll twist this entire cheating thing to look as if you are the guilty party. She will feel completely justified, b/c now, she has discovered you spying........and she'll make your deeds much, much worse than her A. She will accuse you of being dishonest, a fake,and lord knows what else.
So, brace yourself. Stand tall, be strong, and do not back down from what you've told her about contacting OM. She will test your nice-guy ways, and if you apologize, back down, or anything along those lines........you're sunk. Stick to your guns and do not show her your fear!
If all this happens tonight, don't try to say anything more about boundaries at this time. I wouldn't even try a few truth darts at this time. (These are all still very new to you.) Let her blow. What's done is done. Just hold your ground and get through the night.
If she threatens to leave, don't try to stop her. Don't touch her, and don't yell at her. She may pack a bag and leave. Let her go. Don't stand around and watch her pack. Don't plead or beg her to stay. I know this has to be horrible for you. You will survive, and if you stay strong.......I think she'll eventually come around to her senses. Maybe not tonight or next week.......but eventually.
Fist of all, I am sorry you took offense to my nuts statement. But I do stand by what I've said.
My advice would be, to man up. No groveling, no excuses, no begging, no pleading, no tears. Be a man about the whole thing.
And do not worry about the outcome. You really do need to realize your R died at BD. That does not mean a new one might not start, but your previous R is dead as a dodo. Gone. So have no fear.
The second thing you have to realize is that she is going to try to blame it ALL on you. All of it. IT will be your fault for snooping, your fault for not loving her enough, yadda, yadda yadda... Trust me, it is not all your fault. Some perhaps, but all of it, no.
So the snooping pill you will just have to swallow. I do not see any way around it. You could say, that you care so you had to know if she was lying to you. And leave it at that.
Now the R talk, that one you should avoid, you have less than 0,0000000000000000001% chance of turning it around with the R talk at this point. Look at it from her perspective. She just found out you put some kind of a spy device on her phone and in her eyes it makes you look like a pathetic criminal (I do understand you buddy, I really do, I would do the same), she is on a high from OM, in her eyes he is everything you are not. ATM, your chances of reasoning with her are less than the snowball's in hell.
Stay strong buddy...
StongJ, perfect execution! The perfect moment, she gave you the perfect opening, and you gave the perfect response. No ones ever really ready for those kind of confrontations so I am glad you just went with it.
Stand strong, become a man only a fool would leave, and whatever the outcome you can be proud of the effort you gave and the person you became.
Let us hear something from you.
I want to set a boundary around her relationship with the OM. I will give a quick recap of what i know what she thinks i know and whats been said about it to this point then i will post what i am thinking of saying.
What i know: i know she talked sexually and kissed this guy. I know she continued talking to the guy and being flirty after she said she would dial it back to being just freinds. I also know she has met up with him several times after after she said she would just friends. I know they have been going more then talking but i dont know how far they have gone but i suppose i would assume they have banged.
What she thinks i know: she only thinks i know they kissed and talked sexually. As far as shes concerned she probably thinks she has covered her tracks well. She thinks im ok with them having a professional relationship and a codial freindship outside work.
What i have said: i origonally told here is was ok with cordial freindship as in one similar the kind i would have with one of her freinds. I dont text her freinds. This in hindsight is obviously a mistake i never realized how attched she could possibly be to this guy since ive never ever even been close to the situation she is in before.
Hi Strongj
Originally I characterized my W's EA as non-typical . I knew she was getting emotional support from OM but when you see it in writing it hurts a whole lot more. When I didnt know the content it didnt hurt so much and I could blank it out a lot though I kept wanting to confront him and ask him how his partner of 14 years would react to seeing his texts to my W.
Our sitchs are remarkably similar except I have yet to confront W properly.
What I know: She talks to OM every day or close to everyday mainly via phonecall in the car but also via text and FB messenger from her phone in the house. She flirts with him. She has met up with him several times for coffee. She has kissed him on the cheek/forehead. He is very much into her, she reciprocates but in a cool way but one message she said ‘ Missing you (OM Name) teary emoticon.
I have met him twice and he has befriended me via FB to ‘diffuse’ the pressure from me to W.
What she thinks I know: She is more secretive about texting him etc, always careful to make sure cellphone is secure with fingerprint security. Same for her ipad. I think She suspects I hacked her FB account. She knows I know they talk in the car.
What I have said: I originally told her I was ok with a cordial friendship as long as she didn’t hide the fact she was texting, talking to him. This was a huge mistake and gave a green light for them to carry on.
Now that I have seen some FB messages from him to her and put everything into context - its a full blown EA – I need to set a boundary.
I hope everything is OK StrongJ. Don't let a few spoil the real help you can get here. There have been some stories that were really at the end that turned out to be great successes in some part from the support of people on here.