Hi Everyone
I have been separated for 6 months.
I had been with my wife for 30 years 24 married. we have three daughters, one still lives with me at our house. My wife has been living with a family friend.
The troubles with our marriage started about 10 years ago.
My wife started a new job at a local kindergarten, she has worked in kindys for more than 20 years. She is very good at it and it is one of her passions, she loves her job.
The troubles started when she was promoted to centre director, her responsibility's grew and grew she started spending more and more time there and this started to create tension between us and sometimes our children, they would want to know why she was late too. I started to have to compete with her job for time together. she had to do 12 hour days quite regularly and sometimes even weekends. It was getting worse and I was becoming bitter about it. Sometimes when she would get home at night and it would be up to an hour after her knock off time I would angrily say where have you been, and be quite cold about it. instead of being understanding and supportive, things I know now that I should have done!
To add to the heavy workload that was placed on her, her workplace asked her to do an early childhood teachers degree.
Although I was supportive of her doing this, I was also a bit worried it would take even more time together away from us, she spoke to her employer about this and he agreed to give her one day a week off to study and write essays. This lasted for about 2 months and then they realised that it was not sustainable, they could not do without her working every day.
I encouraged her to continue with the degree, but it was a mistake, it was too much for her, and I got even more upset about our lack of time. She would be up until 1 or 2 in the morning studying I would come out and instead of studying she would be on f
Because of the demands put on her family holidays were few and far between, although she could have taken time off she always felt the place would not run properly with out her, this is partly true because on the rare occasion she did take a week or so off they would constantly ring her with work related issues, so she was reluctant to take any holiday time.
Because of the time demands her work put on her, family time suffered, our children missed her as well. this led to another problem that I had. Quite often on a Friday night my daughters would have friends over, my wife would like to spend time with them if she was home chatting to them in the kitchen, sometimes this would go on for hours, I would be waiting for her to finish talking to them and come and spend some time with me if this did not happen I would get jealous and sook. She always used to tell me I should come out with them, I just used to say hello and spend 10 minutes or so talking to them and excuse myself and move in to the lounge room and wait. Being a man it was difficult for me to relate to 10 and 12 year old girls, I did not know much about the things they were talking about, I just thought they would rather I was not hanging around, sometimes they need to be free to talk without a parent around although I spose if they wanted privacy the would have gone to a bedroom to talk.
I think what made her ultimately give up on me was. Her workplace started a gym class on a Saturday morning for the kindy mums, my wife started going and struck up a friendship with the male instructor. he naturally encouraged her to come more often, this turned into a bit of an obsession, she had struggled with weight issues for years and has Hashimotos disease of the thyroid, it no longer works and she has to take hormone replacement for the rest of her life. I asked her to come to the gym with me numerous times before but I spose she felt uncomfortable going with me and the women's class was more of a safe thing for her. Anyway I started to get a bit worried about the amount of time she was spending with this man. her employer got some personal development funding and asked her if she wanted to learn a new skill she could use in her job. This instructor just happens to play the guitar and guess who offered to give her private lessons. I was even more worried and started to question the time she was spending with him. I had to go to another city for a course related to my work. I asked her if she could pick me up from the airport but it would clash with the gym class that he was doing so it was more important for her to do that.
She was texting him back and forth at this stage, I asked her why she was doing this she just said it was to do with the scheduling of her guitar lessons, I think at the beginning it was just this, but it developed into more than that, the content of these texts was inappropriate, hugs and kisses and other wording that you would not send to a just a friend, from what my daughters have said he used the words beautiful and darling, she changed the passcode on her phone when she realised we got a look at some of them. She started to see way too much of him and even my daughters were getting a little worried about her behaviour. They started to question her about it, she just laughed and said there was nothing going on and never would be. While all this was going on I started to be clingy and wanted to be around her all the time, I joined the gym myself and started to go there too. I felt I was loosing her, and did all the classic things you should not do, I started telling he I love you all the time and wanted her to reciprocate, I started doing things for her all the time, fussed over her, bought her gifts, and organised hotel nights. I went over the top a bit.
Finally she could not take my sad worried state anymore and left while I was at work, I came home and she was gone, my youngest daughter had gone to my other daughters place she was quite distraught about it and did not want to be there when I got home.
Her obsession with the gym has continued and she now goes on outings and nights out with a group of women from the gym, he goes also. she now goes to his house for training sessions and has been to a couple of partys at his house. She has also got his daughter a job at the kindergarten that she runs as a trainee. She seems to have struck up a friendship with her as well.
My daughters thought this was starting to get a bit much. It was tearing our family apart. I could not stop talking about it to them and they were getting suspicious and wanted her to confess if there is something going on between them. They work at her kindy too and told their mother they did not want to work with his daughter, she asked them why and they said to her you figure it out. they had heard things about my wife that his daughter had told other workers there and they relayed to my daughter, that's how we found out she had been going to his house. She has since gone out to a face clinic with his daughter and invited her to visit a fellow workers house she was looking after while they were away.
She used to say to me before she left. You just need to be normal, how could I be normal while all this was going on?
I did do some stupid things after she left. I did got to the gym a couple of times to spy on her and the instructor, she was with him, but it was inside the gym although he should have been doing other things he spent the whole hour with her. He is single and Im not sure if there is really anything going on but she is definitely not discourageing him.
My daughters had had enough last weekend and got her round to talk about it. They asked her if there is something going on and she denied it on their lives. She never really told me to my face why she left, and I asked her there and then, she said we just argued too much, she felt I was controlling, and I treated her like a child m
not letting her make her own decisions. and not involving myself with the kids enough, ther were areas where I was probably lacking in that, but I was always there for them when they needed help I always came through.
I did the worst thing I could have done and instead of just listening, I tried to justifie why I did the things I did. I then cried in front of her and said its hard to know that I had made the person I love the most so very unhappy all these past years. I did just about everthing I should not have done and probably reaffimed to her why she left me in the first place!
Where do I go from here?
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Thanks Cadet
I have been going out with friends although this has only been in the last month or two. I have started with my hobbys again, rebuilding my pickup truck, going to the gym, I left the gym that she goes to 2 weeks ago, my daughters have come to the new gym with me, I have started cycling again and am rebuilding my friend network again.
I seem to be on a bit of a rollercoaster, for a few days im ok then I hear about her goings on with the OM and I go backward until I pick up again. My children have been a big help, but I feel it is starting to be too much for them too.
I have read just about all the links you have posted. I read and understand but I seem to get too emotional sometimes and I forget it all. that's what happened when we had the get together for my children to ask her her situation with the OM, when I asked her to tell me specifically why she left me (even though I had a good idea why) instead of listening, I just tried to justify why I acted the way I did. I should have just said I understand it all accept it and I'm moving forward. My emotions always lead me to do the wrong thing.
I was starting to get on track with her and we actually had dineer and discussed it quite calmly and the very next day it blew up again at my daughters house.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
yes im posting on my computer at my workshop, she never come here.
How old are you and your wife?
As far as where do you go from here?
I think you need to read and learn here and then
you will make goals about what to improve about yourself.
Protect yourself financially.
Set some boundaries.
And then where do you want to go?
I am 50 she is 46
Obviously I would like to try and reconcile.
But the way I have been acting I just keep setting myself back.
She has said she is open to going to movies and dinner ect. but dose not want to be a couple anymore, she wants to be free to do her own thing.
She has not asked for a divorce.
Yes that is part of the script.
You cant change her only yourself.
Could someone ask Sandi2 to have a look at my post.
Thanks.
Hello AU Bob
You are obviously having a hard time and I feel for you. Some of your sitch (situation) is very similar to mine, wife becoming obsessed with work then getting attracted to another man...
Have you read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book? It is an invaluable resource and will help you, along with this forum, on a lot of the issues you raise.
As cadet has said, step away from where you are and let it be for a while. If you doubt this then think of the fact that it's taken weeks, months, years to reach this point so a few more days or weeks to get your head together isn't going to hurt.
Your daughters (Ds') relationship (R) to your wife (W) should remain separate to yours. Let them vent their frustration and heal in their own way, they sound old enough. Give them support but don't be tempted to use them as a crutch or aides in your quest to build a new R with your W. Also, don't involve them in this forum or what you are doing to solve your problems, regardless of how well intentioned they may behave, it will almost definitely derail any progress.
Two words to wholeheartedly embrace are acceptance and gratitude. Accept that it'll take some time to build a new R with your W and be grateful for all the things around you that are good. Unfortunately, you'll also need to learn to accept the bad things too as they are part of the journey you are on and may or may not help you, you won't know until some time has passed.
Be calm take some deep breaths (stop now and do that), and accept where you are and be grateful that you've found somewhere that can help you and move you forward to become an even better man than you are already.
Keep on posting as it'll assist you in ways you can't imagine, having the DR book will help you with understanding some of the guidance you are given.
I am looking forward to hearing more of your journey and hope that at some point I can be of assistance.
Avanti
Thanks Avanti
Im well on the road to GAL I have started going out again with friends and started some old hobby's and going to the gym. I switched gyms for two reasons one the OM "just friend" is an instructor there, and second it was just awkward trying to not be there when she was.
I have had other women ask me out, but I have been reluctant to do this, at this stage I just feel more comfortable going out with a group of people, I only took my wedding ring off about a month ago and am a little unshore about it still.
I don't think she has gone out with the OM on a one on one date, but he seems to show up at every night out with the girls and social gatherings she goes to and he even showed up at an open day at W's kindergarten, admittedly his daughter has started working there, although I thought it a little weird that a parent of a worker would show up?
I have my 50th birthday in three weeks, what should I do there? should I invite her?
HelloBob,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
Happy Birthday in 3 weeks! Whether or not to invite your wife is a really good question.
You are still wanting to reconcile with your wife, right? If that is the case, there is still much that can be done.
Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Thanks for your reply.
Im in Australia, and have limited funds, so a OS call may be out of reach at this time.
I still talk to her and had dinner with her last week. I only catch up with her about every 4-6 weeks or so. I still see her fairly regularly when she drops off my daughter after they have an outing. She has come around a few times for coffee, although she is still adamant about not wanting to return to the relationship, she is still enjoying the no strings bit.
I am really torn about the birthday thing, I don't want to upset my children by not inviting her, but my friends say I have to start excluding her from family things that are for me. I don't want to be nasty to her either, and make her think I am doing it out of spite. I just don't know what to do
What is the worst that could happen if you didn't invite her?
What is the worst that could happen if you did invite her?
The answer lies in which is the better of the two and only you can answer it.
It's your birthday and she has gone wayward on you and the family so you forgive her because it's your birthday? Some will say "That's a bit weird, isn't it?"
It's you birthday and she has gone wayward on you and he family so you don't forgive her, many would say, "good for you", some would say "that's a bit spiteful".
In other words you can't win.
Maybe look at it this way, neither will probably make a difference to how she feels about you, sadly that happened a while ago, so make a decision and stick by it, be a man and start to gain her respect by being decisive. Tell you kids once about your decision and if they question you, ask them to respect your decision as it is final.
You didn't answer the question about the DR book, have you got it, or is it on order?
No I don't have the book. I will have to order it. or try to find it at a book store. Wish I knew about it when this started!
Anyone else have any views?
Hi AU Bob
I am sorry you have found yourself here
I have been on this journey for the past 5 months and it takes time for things to settle and then it is about what do you want to do
I am finding out more and more each day and I think you will also but what I will say the people here really are fantastic I am not the best divorce buster however I realise I have made mistakes and I am trying to make things better however this is a very difficult process
I realised in my marriage I was controlling and something I have come to realise from making many mistakes is that I have to let her go let her make her decisions I was very jealous of her seeing a male friend I felt threatened however if she is going to do something then she will and me checking up on her is not going to make this stop from happening
So you will have to accept she is on a journey we are all here with mostly the same basis and as hard as it will be I know I really struggle read my threads if you don't believe me ....you have to give her the freedoms to make her decisions
I am trying to take my own advice
I hope and pray that things work out for you ghost
Thanks Ghost 56
Yes I could not afford to see a relationship coach and this really set me back, I made all the classic mistakes.
I'm just focusing on the GAL at the moment and it has taken me this long to realise I just need to let her go and focus on myself.
The problem is things come up day to day and when you don't have the answer as to how to handle a situation you tend to do the wrong thing cause you try to follow logic, but that seems to be precisely the wrong thing to do, its so confusing, and frustrating!
Thanks Ghost 56
Yes I could not afford to see a relationship coach and this really set me back, I made all the classic mistakes.
I'm just focusing on the GAL at the moment and it has taken me this long to realise I just need to let her go and focus on myself.
The problem is things come up day to day and when you don't have the answer as to how to handle a situation you tend to do the wrong thing cause you try to follow logic, but that seems to be precisely the wrong thing to do, its so confusing, and frustrating!
Yes I understand what you mean. I think we put too much into overthinking events too sometimes because we don't want to stir the water too much. Problem is... our wives have fired us as husbands already. In their minds, they have moved on and there is nothing that can fix the marriage. We still tend to stay in "fix" mode and tip toe around our wives feelings. And I don't think you're trying to follow logic when handling a situation you don't know the answer to, you're just being human and doing what you believe to be right and natural.
I think what you said about focusing on you and GAL are all you can control at this point. Out of all the things that have gone wrong, I realize this has been essential at keeping my head above water.
Hang in there mate as things will get better over the course, just takes time. There will be ups and downs, but the path slowly goes upwards in the long run.
Cheers.
Yeah people on here talk a lot about their WW coming out of the fog. I think I am just coming out of it myself.
With regards to inviting your W to your birthday pick the option that makes you look like a strong, confident person.
For me that would be not inviting. On one hand she may expect it, on the other she may be thinking about why you didn't.
That's the Issue.
I am not going to invite her. But I am sure she will tell the kids "dads just being negative" so either way you can't win.
I have been going out a bit more, and she has made some sarcastic comments to the children about it. Although its OK for her to do it.
One of the reasons she said to me why she left is that she wants "no strings" but they still want the family (children grand children) there for when they want that family thing. Its a bit selfish to just want to slip back in when they feel like it and then go back to doing their "own thing" again afterwards. I spose she has felt like she missed out on life while bringing up the children and being a wife, but sorry that's what having a family is, you sometimes have to make sacrifices, the same as I had to. I didn't cut and run because I needed to focus on myself. That's why its hard to do now, I still feel responsible for my children. I'm not saying she dose not still do things for them, but its when she chooses most of the time, not when they ask.
Of course she will say nasty things about you. That's what waywards do. But you have to stand up for yourself. She will badmouth you whatever you do so you might as well have some self respect to not allow someone who is that disrespectful to be invited. You have to show your children the consequences of acting as your W does. That is your responsibility to your children.
Yes your right. I think her coming round for coffee was a temperature check thing just to see how i was going. Or to try and get the "friend" thing going. How do i explain not wanting her at my birthday, any suggestions as to what to say and not come across as being negative?
Hello, Bob! Just caught up on your thread. First question; have you found the book yet? Your next step is goal setting, and there is really great advice in that chapter on how to do it. Can you add a signature to the bottom of your posts (on your profile page?)
You're doing well in GAL activities. We need to look into some 180's and goal setting.
Who do you have to explain it to? Your daughters? Talk with them about your boundaries and I bet they would agree with them. Just say you would love to have your W at the birthday but within your boundaries. Seriously, you do wish your W would be there but you also have self respect and have boundaries that they also agree with. Now its your W's problem if she can't come to the party.
Anyone else, just change the subject and move on.
Yes. I spoke to one of my daughters this morning and they agree with not inviting her. So its settled . She not invited
Ancaire. Thanks for responding.
Yes. I have ordered the book DR. Cant wait to get it!
I would like Sandi2 to have a look at my thread, but i cant PM her cause i have only posted 20 times or so, could someone ask her.
Thanks
Bob, none of us can PM. I have no idea why, but we're not allowed to do that. Sandi will likely eventually find your thread, but if I spot her on another thread I'll be happy to let her know you'd like her help.
I can tell you, after reading through your thread, your wife is acting like a typical WAS. Selfish, cold, and self-serving. It's all "me, me, me...what about me?" with them. They all seem to read from the same script, too.
You not inviting her to your birthday celebration is brilliant! She needs to realize what she doesn't get to be part of anymore. Most LBS are too terrified to make a statement like you're doing, so they put up with cake-eating for far too long (voice of experience.)
Acting like she's no longer part of your life, and excluding her from things she would once have been part of is the fastest way to get her attention. Kudos to you! Just be careful to not be a real jerk about it. Strong. Calm. Determined.
Have you read through Sandi's Rules on the Newcomer's front page? Those rules are invaluable. Refer to them daily.
Happy early birthday! I'll check back in on you later.
Thanks
No dont want to ever be a jerk. Thats not in my nature. Just starting to come out of the LBS fog and starting to stand up for my feelings. Its taken the six months for me to settle down a bit. The anxiety of it all is quite debilitating. She is in the honeymoon period of the separation and has not really suffered any consequences of what has happened until the last couple weeks. My birthday will be the first family exclusion for her, usually our family christmas day was spent at her sisters place, but my daughters do not want to do that this year, we are just staying home. My daughters have all swapped gyms with me last week, so i think all this will impact on her a bit or maybe not we will have to see!
Good job! Your daughters sound like very level headed kids and you are setting a good example to them.
Whether your D's changing gym has an effect on your W is not something to concern yourself with.
Keep your focus on you and keep on making good decisions, like the one regarding your birthday.
Glad the book is on its way, more of what is being said here will make sense once you've read it.
Yes. I just mentioned the gym because it happened and its something she did not expect.
I have been asked out for dinner by a female work colleague. Not a date purely platonic. Is this ok?
After reading some more I realise its a bad idea!
Another thing i was wondering is. Should i change my facebook status to separated i still have it as married?
I wouldn't change the FB status. However, feel free to add plenty of pictures and posts of you having a good time with family and friends. The new AUBob is a fun and exciting guy to be around.
Also, are you still financially supporting your wife? Phones, insurance, etc. Consider letting go of those things. She's a big girl, time for the big girl pants. Let the OM take care of her if necessary. Remember, she fired you as her H and that means all of you.
Hi Bob, I'm so glad to see you doing as well as you are. 30 years is a long time together. I discovered through my own experience, it's not too late for a M to fall apart. I hope you'll stick with us, b/c this board will help you more than you can imagine.
A few months ago I started some threads about the mindset of a wayward wife and what a LBH should and should not do when he discovers his W fits this category. The link to the first thread is on the bottom of the first page of Sandi's rules. There are five threads in all.
Your WW will try to make you out to be the bad guy, whether you do or don't do what you want. She will make sarcastic remarks to the girls about you and she'll try to justify her own behavior. The girls don't want to choose sides. In time, and maybe already, they will see which parent has chosen an inappropriate path to take. It may not really change much, and they may deal with it differently... depending on the individual personality. In spite of your pain, I hope you can refrain from putting their mother down when you are speaking to them. Remember to conduct yourself with honor and integrity.
You have to just work on your own life and your relationship with your daughters, and their mother has to do the same. It is extremely difficult not to involve grown children into your marital problems, especially daughters. Be cautious of taking their advice, b/c if they are not familiar with the mindset of a wayward wife....they may give you the wrong advice. Be loving and gracious with them, but come to the board to ask before you make any big decisions, while you are new. Not that you can't think for yourself, but to get unbiased insight on your sitch. And, btw, please don't share with your daughters what you learn here. I hope you won't even tell them about this board. If I know girls, one of them will be very tempted to tell their mother some little something of what you are trying to do.....thinking they are helping the sitch. However, it will actually defeat your purpose if they know. So just keep this to yourself, okay?
During this separation period and while she continues to be wayward, you cannot treat her with the same type of "protection" as you did when she was being a faithful spouse and living at home in the M. You have to let her clean up her own messes. You cannot cover for her....with her family, job, church, etc. Do not ever lie for her or agree to pretend to be the happy family out at a public event.
One of the biggest things most WW want is to have all the advantages of M, and none of the disadvantages. They want to be included in all the family events and traditional family holiday celebrating. They expect certain privileges (like coming & going to your house as if you were still together), but they want to keep their life private from you. The like to cake eat by having it both ways.....the single life and family life.
This board had a huge part in helping me find my head several years ago. My M was saved and we are still together today. I try to devote as much time as I can to, hopefully, pay it forward. You can do this, Bob. It will take much, much longer than you think. You have to let her learn the hard way. The quicker reality hits her, the quicker her fantasy will crumble. She is seeing this OM as her knight in shining armor. The more they are together and have to deal with reality, instead of a love affair, the sooner his armor will lose its shine.
Step back and let her deal with the consequences to her newfound single life. You begin a chapter of your life without her. It doesn't mean you don't want her back. It means you are giving her the rope, instead of pulling back on it.
Most newcomers are scared to apply some of the advice, afraid of what their spouse may think. Trust me, you cannot pull back too much from a WW. She left you for another man. Her puny excuses are nothing more than a smoke screen. She wants her time with OM, so let her have it. You don't have to sit by and be miserable while waiting. Truth is, when the LBH is getting a new and fun life, that's when the WW gets perturbed about it. She doesn't want him being happy. She wants him crying over her. She's fired him, and replaced him with OM, but she doesn't want her position to be filled in his life. See how crazy her mindset can be?
There's too much for me to tell in one post, but I will be glad to help you, if I can.
Thanks so much Sandi.
I was waiting for your words of wisdom. When it all started to come about I was lost, like you said they are a different person completely. I take some of the blame for it, because of my behaviour, mostly it was bitterness bought on by lack of time together, I used to bitch about it all the time, as a consequence of this I showed a misguided lack of support. I also used to make comments about her health and weight. I have to admit that some of the criticism was how she looked but mostly it was about the pain she constantly complained of because of her rheumatoid arthritis, the extra weight made it worse, now she has lost the weight she is relatively pain free.
So im not laying all the blame on her, I sort of understand why she left, but it was a two way street, she didn't support me in a lot of things and she used to make comments about my weight too, and did not hesitate to criticise me sometimes as well.
But I didn't walk! and I was willing to try to save our Marriage, its just the EA. PA? sealed my fate. I could not suffer that and it showed, she must have thought I am pathetic and that was it, she left!
No
I don't give her money for anything. I am still living in the family home, she is still paying half the mortgage. I have D17 living with me, WW is living with family friend, I don't think she (friend) has any idea about the OM, I have not spoken to the friend since the split, I can only wonder what WW has told her.
WW has started to come get D17 for the last few weekends. They spent last weekend at a farm stay, I think she has latched on to the young one because she is too young to fully understand what her mother is doing. The older two have told her they don't respect her and have questioned her about the OM a few times now, asking her to denie anything's going on she says there is not and never will be, her actions are not fooling them. Although they still talk to her!
She has come to the house a number of times now, I don't really know what I should do as to letting her in should I just tell her not to come in and just wait outside to get my daughter?
I think she is happy for two reasons that my daughter is living with me at our (my)house. 1. because it frees her up and she dose not have the responsibility of her day to day. and 2. because living at our friends house and D not being there no one really knows what she is up to and what she dose. we are all in the dark as to where she is.
So should I let her in the house?
Does she have a key to the house? Change the locks if she does. She's a visitor like any other now.
As far as letting her in after she knocks that is up to you. If she is disrespectful, hell no.
Hi Bob,
I'm glad you ordered the book. Will it be arriving soon? In the meantime, you can read the first chapters of all of Michele's books on this website. Go to the home page and click on "sample Michele's books" All of Cadet's links in his welcome post are also enormously helpful.
You may want to consider checking into a calling plan to the US. We have many clients calling from your part of the world. I highly recommend taking of advantage of the online special for Telephone Coaching. I'm sure we can find a way to make the logistics work for you.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Really starting to struggle with getting out. Most of the friends I have are women. They have offered to go for dinner see a movie etc, but I know one on one is not good. It really sux that WW, WAS can do it, and the one left behind has to be a saint, I mean six months of not having female company is a drag, I mean I wish she was still here and I was doing stuff with her but she is gone and who knows if we will ever R. They really seem to have it all while they are FREE, and we just have to suffer, I wonder if the ones that do ever R understand the sacrifice their LBS has had to endure?
Your in a limbo state, a real bummer. I haven't experienced that but others on here have and may be able to help you through it. Best I can recall someone saying is you will stay in limbo until your cause a change. Like not inviting to the birthday party. That's a new type of AUBob. Maybe I was wrong about changing your status on FB. Possibly de-friending her and changing your status to "Separated". It shows you moving on with your life and dropping the connection to the past that is gone.
Yes I struggle with the status thing, not sure what to do? one of those dammed if you do dammed if you don't things, witch way to turn?
Just watched Esther Perel on infidelity. some good info on understanding this.
Anyone else have an opinion on the facebook status change?
Hey au bob,
I wouldn't change the facebook status, your still married. I wouldn't even go on facebook anymore. But that's what I would do.
Yes Vice82. I think your right. when I see her posting pictures of her NEW self, it makes me anxious again. I have started to ween myself off it a bit now. its a bit damaging is it not.
Yes, I always think the status change seems a bit retaliatory. Best to just take your own steps to minimise damage. Not unfriend, but unfollow...I'm not much of a FB user, but I've seen the pain caused by looking at social media so often on these boards.
The thing to remember is that FB is our shop window and people present themselves as they want to be seen. As a wise poster once said, you don't post pics of yourself crying in the toilet do you??
Yeah. I have been struggling with the detachment thing, it's difficult when you still have feelings for them. Six months and it's still a bit surreal and raw. It is getting easier, but you still have backslides.
Hello
I've just hidden my relationship status on FB. So when people are looking at my details, it just says 'no relationship to show' (or something like that).
Im a little shady about taking spouse's back after being WW. I mean, they have been with someone else, lied and betrayed us, we did not.
Don't get me wrong, I would take mine back, but how do you deal with what they have done, and how do you live with the fact that they could do that to you, the breach of trust, and the fact that they could switch off from you and not have empathy for you?
I don't understand how someone you have shared most of your life with, the person who has fathered or mothered your child can do this.
Social media, family peer pressure, the breakdown of morals, stigma breakdown (birth of the "Cougar"). And I think one of the most damaging, Reality TV programs.
My wife has started going to night clubs since our split, at 46 years old I would have thought that was behind her and was not age appropriate, how wrong I was. I thought I would have a look at the scene for my self, and was shocked. I attended a night club on the coast here and 70% of the women there were over 40, I could not believe it, when I was in my 20's if there was anyone over 30 in a club they were laughed at!
I believe family value has degraded to a point of almost non existence, it's become socially accepted and too easy to just walk away and focus on individual happiness, don't worry about the family unit, as long as your happy it's all good, but what about the fall out from that, the breakdown of the family unit and the suffering of the innocent other half, and children, do the therapists take them into account?
I know I had issues and I accepted that and have taken steps to address them, admittedly it was late into the relationship, but she had issues as well but did not want to work on them, the therapist told her individual happiness is what everyone deserves and I was taking that away from her.
I wonder how much of this, has contributed to what has happened to us?
Bad therapist and others make it so appealing to do these things. They never show the bad side. Only after the dust settles does the rot that overtakes people is shown for what it is.
That's the tragedy of it. it's the time we live in. We all should be happy, but life is what YOU make it, not the failings of others. The role models of today have deteriorated into a mockery of what role models should be, society's standards in some areas have slipped into decadence, while some have become liberating.
I think these people were always with us, just fewer. Facebook, texting and other modern ways to communicate have made it much easier to stray.
Yes.
It was the Texting to the OM that started my paranoia and sowed the seed of doubt, that led to the behaviour that ultimately pushed her away from me (not including the other troubles in the marriage) The lack of trust. This was the last straw as they say. If there were no mobile phones around it would have been a lot harder for her, now days there is instant communication.
We have quite a few marriage break ups at my work place. There seems to be a pattern of sorts. Most of the women are around their mid forties, i wonder if it could be related to MLC's and menopause. My wife said i was too controlling and looking at it now i spose i was to a certain extent. And she wants to be free to do as she pleases. A few of the other separated women have told me that they felt the same way.
What are your thoughts?
My W never said I was too controlling but her family and friends said I was. But their gripe was I controlled the money so tight that my W couldn't do whatever she wanted when she wanted. Well there is only so much coming in and it has to cover what is going out. My W wasn't interested is working out a budget together so it was left to me. To them anything that would restrict absolute freedom was controlling. They convinced her I was the most evil person ever. Nevermind that I never told my W what she could or couldn't do or who she was friends with or anything like that. I just let her know when we were getting close to the spending limit. The only other item was when my W starts going to college without saying a word to me and I wasn't happy with her taking on a massive debt without any discussion. Yeah, I know, that is way too controlling.
I think the controlling accusation is they want to do whatever they want, when they want and anyone who says no is too controlling. Like little kids not getting their way when they want ice cream 10 minutes before bedtime. When a W, or H, doesn't have to do anything or know anything about the family financial plan then they really don't care what limits there are to spending. That I think is the root of a lot of it. It is very important to plan the family finances together, it will save a lot of problems.
They are, in reality, more free than the LBS who works all day, every day to make things work. My W can quit her job any day she wants, and she has, without feeling a thing since there is still money flowing to the checking account. No consequences from her view. Freedom to do whatever she wants and when I inform her of a limit it's me being too controlling.
I was at my daughters house today and WAW rang and asked if she could visit. D said ok and told her i was there she came anyway. Spoke to me quite well
I think the controlling accusation is they want to do whatever they want, when they want and anyone who says no is too controlling
Exactly!
They are, in reality, more free than the LBS who works all day, every day to make things work. My W can quit her job any day she wants, and she has, without feeling a thing since there is still money flowing to the checking account. No consequences from her view. Freedom to do whatever she wants and when I inform her of a limit it's me being too controlling
.
Again, this is very true for a lot of couples. Unless the W went to school for a particular career focus, and she just has a "job", I think she does feel free to quit b/c she knows he is basically responsible for supporting the family.
When im around WAW i still have trouble being confident. She still seems to be able to make me feel anxious, problem is she always has my daughters there and they talk about things i dont really have any input with, they all work at the same place and the conversations are usually about that, i cant really say much and i feel a little disadvantaged here, I just have to sit there and i cant talk much. I feel it dose not allow me to portray any confidence!
The other issue that has cropped up is she has come and taken my youngest daughter away for the last 4 weekends, she dose this I assume because of two reasons. 1. Because D17 has not expressed any resentment toward her for her waywardness. And 2. She needs someone to be with her for her weekends, my other children every now and then ask her questions about the OM . And that makes her uncomfortable.
WAW still seems to be in the honeymoon period after the walkout, six months ago. She has not really missed out on too much in the family gathering area.
I will just have to wait and see if my older children boycot her familys christmas gathering like they told me they would?
Hi AU Bob, sorry to read of your situation. Just a couple of comments on your post above - all around the area of reclaiming your personal power.
Have a look at these statements...
"she still seems to be able to make me feel anxious"
"I just have to sit there and I can't talk much"
"It does not allow me to portray any confidence"
These are important because no-one makes you feel anything, you don't just have to sit there and others do not control whether or not you portray confidence.
I think you are giving your personal power away here...how can you get it back my friend? A person with personal power is potent indeed.
Thats just it. You need situations where you can demonstrate personal power. I just have not had the opportunity to get myself into that situation yet. It will come i just have to wait for it but when it dose ill be ready. Up to this point she has had all the breaks, It can not last for ever, she has been very lucky. I am getting stronger, but its taken six months for me to shed the shock and depressed state I have been in. This forum has helped me a great deal, i no longer have no answers for the questions i needed answered.
I look forward to any input and advice!
I think you have to reclaim the personal power first and then the situations to be 'personally powerful' in will naturally unfold.
You sound pretty powerless in the post above my friend - almost waiting for fate to intervene..
Have you read NMMNG?? Are you taking responsibility for your own anxieties and working on those?
Feeling better within the situations is all within your gift, but it does take some focused effort on your part...
I agree with you, Sotto.
If you're waiting until the right opportunity comes along, and waiting for someone else to give you that opportunity, then you could be waiting a long time. And if someone isn't interested in giving you that opportunity, you could be waiting longer still.
Where I'm at with this whole thing is that I'm not gonna be waiting for anyone to hand me the opportunity. I'm just taking it, as of this present moment, in every possible way
I think i may have had a bit of a win with the personal power thing yesterday. WW, WAS and her sister brought some exercise equipment over for my daughter, i still get along quite well with my sister and law, she gave me a couple of hugs and said she missed me.
After we had finished unloading WAS seemed to get a bit miffed because i was talking to her sister and not showing her any attention, I focused my attention and chatting on sister, said a brief goodbye to WAS and continued talking to her sister my wife got into her car and left.
Do you think I did the right thing?
Why do you think you didn't?
"She still seems to be able to make me feel anxious, problem is she always has my daughters there and they talk about things i dont really have any input with, they all work at the same place and the conversations are usually about that, i cant really say much and i feel a little disadvantaged here, I just have to sit there and i cant talk much. I feel it dose not allow me to portray any confidence!"
Doesn't allow you? If you are going to protray confidence, you have to sieze the moment. If you stand around feeling anxios and just watching her, you wull never get the opportunity. If you are self empowered, this will appear normal, instead of superimposing yourself into their conversation or activities.
Obviously it's something i have to work on any advice
Read NMMNG - deal with the 'makes me feel' 'does not allow me to' 'I have to sit there.'
These are all statements of a man who perceives himself as powerless and essentially controlled by others. NMMNG is a book that is all about reclaiming your personal power.
I believe there are NMMNG groups too....you may want to join one..
That's what I would focus on...
Most of the friends I have are women. They have offered to go for dinner see a movie etc, but I know one on one is not good.
So how can you make NEW friends? Sounds like you should go out and join something NEW.
It really sux that WW, WAS can do it, and the one left behind has to be a saint, I mean six months of not having female company is a drag, I mean I wish she was still here and I was doing stuff with her but she is gone and who knows if we will ever R.
You are free to do whatever you want. It's not about 'being a saint'. It's about taking actions that get your closer to your goals. If your goal is to "sleep with a woman", then your latest actions are probably not getting you closer to that. If your goal is to reconcile with your W, then they probably are.
So, what do you WANT?
They really seem to have it all while they are FREE, and we just have to suffer, I wonder if the ones that do ever R understand the sacrifice their LBS has had to endure?
You dont have to suffer. If you do this right, then you really WONT suffer after a while. But you actually have to get out there and DO it...
Yes Sandi2 you are right. problem is when I do see her I am usually at my daughters house and most of the discussion is about work, they don't really speak to her about social stuff either, they are upset about the things she is doing too. She dose not come to see me, so there is little I can do about it. If she dose want to speak to me, I will sincerely do my best to be confident, I spose I need to do some personal development so I can do this.
Hi Sotto
I did not realise this was a book. I saw and read a page written about this but not the book. I will see if I can get a copy. I think I need it!
Hi Azzork.
Yes I have rekindled old friendships and started getting back into sporting groups I used to be in. I have a retro cycling group I ride with once a month. Every Sunday morning I take my old 56VW beetle out for coffee with three VW friends of mine, and I have started going out once a month to see a local band at the pub. And I have regular coffee and dinner outings with my children and friends.
I think I did not really say the right words about the female company thing. I'm not really out to get layed, but I do miss the closeness you have when you have a partner, you can not get this from just a friend, sitting on the couch watching a movie together for example, this is what I miss the most. I do want to reconcile with my wife and this is what keeps me going, but as you know every now and then your new found strength dose fail a bit.
I am getting stronger but at six months it is still a bit raw. I wish I found this forum when the BD happened I have and continue to make mistakes, but at least I have some advice and direction now, and I have you guys to thank for that!
Steer the conversation to things that you and your daughters can talk about. Things you will not be left out of and have confidence with. You don't have to let them talk about work. Talk about what you want to talk about. Particularly, NEW things you are doing. (HINT: GAL Stuff)
Yes, mvgfwd2, I will have to try that next time! great advice.
Thanks!
I was speaking to WAW sister the other day and i dont think her family know about the EA/PA should i say anything, a lot of people who we know dont really know the exact reason or im not really sure what she has actually said to them. I have not said anything. Should i start to tell my side of the story or just say nothing?
Do you think if you told them it would help or hurt your chances at reconciling with your W?
If they ask don't lie, not for a WAW wife.
Not sure what would happen. I'm positive the people and friends we have have not heard the full picture, im sure she would have told them we just argued all the time, I bet she did not tell them what it was about though.
I mean the lady that cuts my hair for instance she knows we have separated but has never asked for my side of the story, WAW must have said something to her or how would she know. There are others we have known and who know but have never asked me?
Gday AU Bob,
Have read your sitch and it does resemble something like mine, regards to age, years married etc. Except my wife left for another woman.
If you ever need to chat hopefully you are close. I am in North Brisbane area.
You are heading in the right direction with the work you are doing on yourself. As mentioned above, you do need to choose whether you are working towards reconciliation or moving on. They will then determine your approach to dating or closeness to another person. I get that, it was one of the biggest things I missed: holding hands, cuddling or simply touching.
Why do you feel the need to tell anyone?
Especially someone who just cuts your hair?
Hi Hotwheels.
Im in the northern rivers area.
Im still not exactly sure what the relationship she has with the OM is, i cant find out for certain. She was texting him and hiding it, what exactly was in them in not sure. There were hugs and kisses at the end of them and i did see in one that he replied to her when she sent him pictures of our new born grandaughter and she said she was beautiful and he replied not as beautiful as you. That was just one of them. The kids said they saw some and did not like them but have not told me what was in them. This guy is an instructor at her gym. It could be just friendship but she dose not understand what are acceptable boundrys. She has been going to his house under the excuse that she is doing Pt with him jogging and step sessions but she has been there for a few private partys. My children have asked her if there is anything going on and she denies it. She even gets private guitar lessons off him but this has been going on since before she left me about 12 months now and she still cant play anything?
Until i can get conformation or catch her out i wll not know.
I am going out and doing other things and have started to not even think about her some days. I spose im on the road to detachment now.
Hi Mr Bond
Im just wonder what rubbish she had told these people. I bet she has only told them half trueths i bet there was no mention of the OM . Just how bad i was!
AU Bob you mention the gutair lessons and yet she cannot play a tune this does seem rather strange it is a long difficult road that we are all on and some things that mattered perviously now do not matter to me any longer
Keep strong and I can totally relate to the closeness that has gone
take care
Ghost
Hi Mr Bond
Im just wonder what rubbish she had told these people. I bet she has only told them half trueths i bet there was no mention of the OM . Just how bad i was!
I'm pretty sure my H is doing this as well.
To make things worse, we also work in the same industry. And because of who he is, I'm known as 'his wife'.
I'm struggling with this one. I desperately want to set the record straight and tell it like it is.
The thing that stops me is that I think I would lose some of my dignity. And also, where would it stop? I would probably have to start telling as many people as possible, and then updating them on how it is all unfolding.
That's actually all time and energy I could be using to help me become a stronger and better person. And also shore up my own boundaries.
I don't want to use those (at the moment) very limited resources of time and energy to essentially pursue a course of action that would take the focus away from my own journey.
Don't know if that makes any sense?
Yes what you say makes scense just sux you sit there and wonder what they are thinking. The other paints you in a bad light and you may not deserve that.
Yes what you say makes scense just sux you sit there and wonder what they are thinking. The other paints you in a bad light and you may not deserve that.
Of course you don't deserve that.
But seriously, leave them to it. My H is so hysterical with it all at the moment (he's in the throws of his EAPA) that anyone he talks to about stuff won't really believe what he says because it's gonna lack any kind of middle ground or perspective.
Yes I spose silence = dignity?
I just saw you are from Scotland. I have a good friend from Glasgow. My wifes family are from the Shetlands Skaw i think!
Amazing!
Yup, silence equals dignity.
With that approach you're never going to be in the position where you later regret something you've said.
Also, people talk. And it all might get back to your W in a distorted Chinese whispers way. Which might make things more difficult for you in the long run.
Thank you!
Thats one of the reasons im here. Guidance!
It's a pleasure.
But please, if someone has another perspective on it, then do post. I'm still very new to dealing with all of this and trying to get my head round it.
Thanks Focus22
That's what I like about this board. wish I knew about it six months ago
They will all do this. Right now you're trying to CONTROL things. You will drive yourself crazy trying to find out who she talked to and what she said. The better option is to continue to grow and BE a better man so that anyone who heard her will know it's not true.
Even if you try to defend yourself to others, they will already have a judgment made. Don't play that game.
Hi Focus sweetheart & Au Bob (wont call you sweetheart
)
The F&F scenario that surround your MR are something you dont really have to deal with if you have your head screwed on right.
During our troubled period, I learnt from a friend that my W would go to the gim at times with tears, others walk around like a Zombie, in short play out the victim infront of her friends. This obviously made her seem the poor soul and me the evil dark lord.
The things is in these situations people only see the tears from one side and feel the pain from one side. No one knows the full story and to be honest I think some dont care. They take sides because it is the politically correct thing to do, pass judgement and end of story.
Now things are better and we come across some of these gim friends, I see how they interact and imagine what they must think of me.
Some time ago I went to explain to the OM to GTFA from W a little more enthusiastically. Her friend found out and as she was both their friends she came up and confronted me. I said nothing. Still waited and as I learned he didnt turn up I left for home. I told W what had happened and also that the way her friend confronted me it sounded like she did not know the full story. W admitted her friend did not know about their EA. She just told her I got pi$$ed because I caught her and OM coming out of a cafe before gim.
As you can imagine, friend thinks i am over jealous H wanting to bash inocent W friend. I told her friend in a text that I admired her nobleness but it was a family matter between the 3 of us and politely told her to GTFO of our problems.
As you can see her friends think i am a Richard (d1ck) but because they don't know me nor the situation. The best part is I dont care.
To set the story straight would mean involving people into a personal and delicate matter that I do not care about the least. it would also mean degrading the W and me as well. Those people are not worth it. As my dad used to say... if you dont pay my bills you have no say in my life.
Family... grr.. thats another story. The day her parents found out they were in denial until W admitted. They agree it was wrong, i was right to get pi$$ed but ... they are family and no matter how many aces you have, they will never be in your corner, barring exceptions from what I have seen here.
Children ... keep them out as much as possible but depending on age they will find out. Just try to keep out gory details. I think one of the things that hit W hard was S's reaction and rejection to her actions. He took sides but not with her. One of the problems with children is they are used as leverage or pawns. Dont do that. some will get hurt, some will live your problems on top of theirs and some will lose respect for you both as you involve them in your slugging match. If things then do work out you now have the S and children needing piecing to become a family once again. its not worth it.
In short, dont worry about what other people think, even if they are close. On top of the problems you already have you dont need to defend yourself, who you are or what you do. Anyone with a brain knows there are 2 sides to every story and if they dont then scr3w them. Be true to yourself.
Max
Ah, so eloquently put. Thank you for explaining that to me as well
Yes your right. Blood is thicker than water. And the kids are inocent pawns and should be left out of it. I spose at the end of the day it's GAL and move on and what ever will be will be!
I'm coming around to that now and feeling better for it. It's just the loose ends that worry me now, selling the house and finding a new home for me and the daughter!
OK how do you make a link to this one?
Here's a thread on how to link threads. Once you've gotten down the easy steps, I'll come back and show you another way to do it.
How to Link Threads