Wow! I have found some excellent advise here. Thank you so much to everyone. Sandi's rules are great and wish I would have found them on day one of my WW's PA
So, here's my story. My W grew up in a very hostile home. She was physically, mentally and emotionally abused. I didn't realize the impact this had on our M. I knew my W had a nasty temper but thought if I just "walk on glass" and do everything I can to not piss her off everything will be good. I also thought if she just blew up every once in awhile I could handle it. Well, this didn't work and I couldn't handle it. The blow ups were extreme. She would yell things like "I hate you, I wish you were dead, I wish you would get in the car, drive really fast and smash into a tree" on a regular basis. She has also hit herself, held knives to her throat, wrapped belts and metal hangers around her throat and other "self harming" actions. She regularly repeats the "list of my wrongs". Some of which are things I have done that have hurt her, some are things I did prior to meeting her and some are things that never even happened. I feel as if she has never forgiven me for any of these things even though we have attended counseling specifically working on conflict resolution and forgiveness. Lastly, she would also hit me. Now I'm 6'4", 235lbs and regularly involved in sports and the gym. It took me a long time to acknowledge I'm an abused spouse. Looking back I realize I would let this abuse build up and I've acted out a couple times in the last 6 years. I have not been the perfect husband and I really blew it Aug 2014. On a business trip I got drunk, met 2 people, we went back to my room to continue to drink. I cheated. I did not sleep with her but I was still unfaithful. When I returned home I felt terrible. Within a day I admitted everything and begged for forgiveness. Since then I've been working to win her love, earn her trust and be the best H ever. The abuse has increased and has been more frequent. I tolerated it because I believed it was retribution for what I did and I wanted to allow her to release her anger. I realize now no one deserves to be abused this way.
On May 24, 2015 she told me the night before at the bar a guy had tricked her into getting her phone number and he had been sending her nice messages. I told her to tell him to stop and she said she wasn't sure she wanted to. I asked her to tell me if he didn't and I would make sure it stopped.
I let the topic go but could tell something wasn't right over the next couple weeks. I confronted her about it on June 12, 2015. She said they were still talking she got mad at me and left. I googled him, found his address then began tracking her phone as I watched her go to his house. She returned in the morning at 5:30 am claiming nothing happened but I didn't believe her. I began snooping her phone and in a short time frame discovered she had slept with him.
I confronted her and told her I was willing to work on our M. She denied it. I then spoke with her mother and her mother and I confronted her. I told her I knew the truth and I was still willing to work on our M. She denied it until I showed her the proof. She left the room.
I decided I would show her unconditional love and just be the better choice. She kept telling me she wanted to choose me and our M but she needed some space. I refused to leave the house as long as she continued to talk to OM. She eventually told me she would stop talking to him. I agreed to leave the house but I wasn't going to set up something permanent. I left the house and lived with friends for about 3 weeks until I discovered she had been lying and was talking to the OM the whole time. I moved back in still showing her love and I did this for about 6 weeks until I came across this site and a book on "tough love".
Since finding this site and learning about tough love I have been doing pretty good. She noticed the 180's right away and for a couple weeks it was drawing her to me. She would initiate conversations, come to me to hug, tell me she loves me and even scheduled a date for us. However, she continued her A and I caught her in lots of lies.
About 3 weeks ago her first A seemed to fizzle out as she began a new A. She has stopped being drawn to me. I've continued the 180's, and GAL. She does ask questions periodically about what I'm doing or if I'm seeing someone but I have told her if we decide to choose each other we will definitely have these types of conversations.
10 days ago she filed for divorce and asked me to move out again. I told her I was staying but would move to the basement. I told her I do not want a divorce but I do not want a marriage like we had either.
Here's my question- I read Sandi's post describing the WW and it describes my W to a T. If I remember it correctly it said I should be using the "let her go" method and I should have never left the martial bedroom. That I should demand she leaves in order to create loss in her. That she will need to feel significant loss in order to shake her out of her A fog. I have already left the bedroom. I am strongly considering moving back into the bedroom but I know she will explode and she doesn't care when she explodes in front of the kids. She has and will say terrible things to our 4 year old about me in order to hurt me. I don't want to expose our little girl to this.
So I guess the questions. Do I
1. just move back into the bedroom and not say anything
2. move in and tell her to sleep somewhere else
3. Tell her prior to bedtime that I'm moving in and she should leave. I don't care where you go but you are not sleeping here
4. move her stuff out and not say anything to her about it?
Lastly, How do I enforce this boundary?
Thanks in advance for the help
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Thank you Cadet.
I'll be ordering the books today.
all of these links have been very helpful and I initially saw a lot of success with the pursuit/distance strategy. Recently I've upped the pressure here. I've stopped saying goodbye before I leave the house and good night before going to bed. All communication has only been about the kids or finances. I've been going out with friends a couple nights a week and working out at the gym most evenings after work. It has seemed the further I've pulled away the further she pulled away until yesterday.
Yesterday after church I asked one of the prayer partners to pray over our family. I told her the whole story along with the "tough love" strategy I'm using. She agreed with "tough love" and even referenced how we serve a God of "tough love" and how he sent the Israelites into the desert for 70 years. She then said, "However, I am feeling that I'm supposed to tell you to hug her. Do not say anything to her because she will not hear you but give her a hug" I was skeptical.
Well, I did hug her that afternoon. She hugged me back and began crying. Not much was said but we hugged on the bed and looked into each others eyes for 10 minutes or so. I then left the room so she could nap.
Later that night I was on the love seat watching football. She came into the room and just looked at me. I asked her if she would like to sit and watch the game (she's a huge Bronco fan). She sat next to me. Then scooted close, put her head on my chest, arm around me and cried some more for a couple minutes. Nothing was said. She then went to bed.
This morning very little was said. Just conversation about our daughter but her voice and words were very soft and tender. I believe prayer and the initial hug have softened her heart a little.
I'm optimistic but am going to be very careful
For the last 3 weeks I've been GAL and have made plans for at least one weekend night and gave her plenty of notice in order to secure my night out. She too has been sure to be away from the house on her weekend night. 2 weekends ago she didn't come home until the morning but this last weekend she was home by 10:15pm. I didn't really expect her to come home and I've been contemplating reclaiming the master bedroom so our 4 year D and I were sleeping in the Master bedroom. She knocked on the door. I let her in.
She said "what are you doing?"
I said "sleeping" as I headed back to the bed
She said "well, will you sleep in the basement?"
I said "no" as I climbed back into bed.
She said "the boys bed doesn't have sheets on it"
I said "neither does the basement bedroom, I'm washing them."
She said "Will you sleep in the basement anyway?"
I said "no"
She asked "why was the door shut and locked"
I said " I didn't want you to come in"
she quietly left.
I think I did a good job of standing up for myself. Most of our marriage has been me catering to her wants and needs. I'm all done with it.
she just sent me a text that said "If we're doing 1 weekend night free, I would like Saturday this week please"
I waited about 30 min and responded "Ok"
She's making plans way in advance this week. Makes me think she's planning a special date with OM. Trying to not worry about it.
I'm meeting with my counselor tonight. He was our marriage counselor prior to her first A. I'm looking forward to his opinion about reclaiming the master bedroom.
Hello Gnicks9,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
Good news about being back in the master bedroom.
Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
Well, I'm not back in the master bedroom yet. My counselor and I decided we probably should wait for tonight to have the conversation. She had a big interview this morning and I didn't want to disrupt her sleep prior to it. Also, my step son's will be there tonight and we thought with more people around she may be less likely to blow a gasket. Unfortunately it's never stopped her in the past. So her reaction could be anywhere from quietly walking away to exploding and becoming very abusive. I do feel I've begun to detach myself enough that her verbal abuse won't have the effect on me it once had. I'm afraid that she will say things to our 4 year old in order to hurt me. I'll be sure to turn the audio recorder on my phone for any conversation.
She split our bills a couple weeks ago and she has taken the responsibility of balancing and paying all the family bills from what we determined is the family account. This has historically been my responsibility and I can see it weighing on her. I saw a NSF letter from the bank in the mail this weekend and she insisted on me writing her a check for my half of the bills and then she went to deposit it on Sunday. She also told me this morning that she is tight on money while I had a real estate closing today and I'm getting a nice raise at work on October 1st. I hope she's starting to appreciate all the things I've typically done.
Since the hug on Sunday I've seen her look at me a couple times with a look that says "will you hug me again?" But I have not. When she was about to leave this morning for her interview I told her she looked great and she was going to Wow them. I then took her hands and quickly prayed with her for interview. She thanked me and again gave me the "will you hug me look" but I didn't. I also have not asked her about her interview. It's been hard because I do love her but I feel at this time I'm supposed to be letting her go and using "let her go" techniques which should coincide with telling her tonight that I am moving back into the master bedroom and I would like her to leave. I'm trying not to be anxious about it. I've been praying about it for almost a week and I know God is a God of love and sometimes that love is a tough love and this is what He is directing me to do.
And time for another question. W had been seeing her own counselor who was our M counselor several years ago. I know her counselor has recommended for W to see a psychologist for a full evaluation to eliminate the possibility of any underlying issues that may be causing additional tension in our R. W has refused so far. She states that she believes there isn't anything wrong with her. I also know her counselor is doing individual counseling with the goal of R. Both of these things were stated by the counselor in an email to us. She was going once a week but has not gone for the last 2 weeks. My question is......I believe she has not been going because she split our bills and she is struggling financially. If I am using "let her go" and "tough love" techniques would I hurting my strategy by offering to pay for her sessions?
First of all, you don't know why she stopped going to therapy. So you're just assuming. If you want to, you can say that you will help pay for therapy as that will lead you towards your goal. But don't mindread.
thank you MrBond. I think I will offer to help her pay for it but will not give her money directly.
I reclaimed the master bedroom last night. She had a medium sized blow up.
I said " I have been wrestling with and praying about something for the last week. I know how you feel and your opinions but I have feelings and opinions too. Our bedroom is the martial bedroom ( she rolled her eyes). I will be staying in there and I would like you to leave."
She said "you can't just tell me you're going to be staying in MY room"
I said " it is our room, I will be staying there and I'd like you to leave"
She said "No, You can't just tell me to leave"
I said " I'm not negotiating this with you. I'm telling you what I'm going to do"
I then went to the basement bedroom to get my stuff. She followed me down there and said "If this is happening then it's happening tomorrow night and you're washing the sheets." I ignored her and continued to put my things into a basket. She said "you are the worst person I've ever met and I can't wait for this to be over" I said "me too"
I then went to the master bedroom to move back in. She came in the master bedroom, began gathering some of her stuff and told me again I was the worst person she ever met, she hates me and I'm a coward as she walked out of the room. We were standing in the door way. I told her again that I want her to leave as I shut the door and locked it.
She returned again to the master bedroom to gather things. She began to say something about our mediation. I put in my headphones. She said "I'm talking to you" I said "not right now you're not"
It felt really good to stand up to her. She has bullied me our whole marriage. I always told myself I was just getting along with her but now looking back I realize she bullied and manipulated me. She even tried to manipulate the situation last night by telling me it would happen tomorrow and I would wash the sheets. I feel I'm finally regaining myself and becoming the man I once was. One that stands up for myself and doesn't tolerate being disrespected.
I don't want a divorce but I don't want a marriage like a had or wife like she is right now. I want the wife I know she can be and wants to be.
Just saw emails between my W and her IC. W reached out to try to schedule an appointment today. IC doesn't have anything available until next week. Now I'm not sure if I should offer to help pay for it or not. ????
Personally I would not offer to help she wants this ....it's called tough love
Keep that money in your wallet son! She needs to start doing things for herself.
Hello gnicks9,
Good for you for standing up for yourself. I too have been thinking of taking back the MB. Its good to read that it can be done.
Huddy and Ghost56,
Thank you for the encouragement. I think I will "keep that money in my wallet" It's hard because I want her to go. I would like her to go daily. I feel should could use someone she trusts speaking truth into her life and I know the IC is a MC and has a goal of R. I'll hang on to the money for now. If she asks for help I'll have to reconsider it.
Vise82
I spent almost a week praying about it and seeking guidance. I asked the guys in my men's bible study, my IC, my parents and even a prayer partner(who was an elderly lady) at the church. All agreed that we serve a God of tough love. That W has a hardened heart and will need to be put out of her comfort zone in order to start experiencing real loss. That I am biblically doing what is right for her and for me by sending her away.
I don't expect this battle is over but at least I've established another boundary for me. I imagine there will be more said about this. The good news is her verbal attacks didn't effect me like they use to. I'm going to keep fighting the good fight and I know fighting for my M is the right thing to do.
Good for you gnicks!
I am so glad to hear that your church is behind you. Makes me feel as if we are doing the right things. It's mighty nice to have God in your corner! Keep it up
Very confused.
Our mediation is scheduled for next week but I have not seen any evidence that my wife has signed the contract or made her half of the payment. This stuff was due end of last week and I took care of mine but it will be cancelled if she didn't send her stuff in.
Last night my W asked for our 2014 tax records and this morning I noticed the paperwork for our house was missing from the desk. I'm assuming she is collecting information for our mediation next week. However, before she started her A we were looking into installing new carpet in the house. Last night she stated she would like to install the carpet because she can not stand our old carpet and asked when Home Depot would be doing their 2 year 0% interest financing again. Why in the world would she want to install new carpet when our D could be finalized in about 10 weeks? I know in our state all property is split equally and even if she wanted to keep the house she would need to buy me out of it. Not only can she not afford to buy me out but she could not afford the current payment.
Any advise on mediation or what in the world she might be thinking would be greatly appreciated.
Who knows what she is thinking. I definitely wouldn't sign up for new carpet at this point.
I think your best bet would be to sit tight and see how this plays out next week.
I would like to show her I am hopeful and optimistic about us reconciling. I believe agreeing to carpet and being excited about it would show hope. It would show I do see a future for us without stating it. Actions being louder than words. However, in order to protect myself I would stipulate in mediation that if one of us decided to keep the house they would also take on the any debt accrued for updating the house.
Of course she could be thinking "well at least we'll have nice carpet for the next couple months until we sell the house".
The truth is she probably isn't thinking and of course I'm trying to attach rational thinking to someone who is running on pure selfish emotions.
"I would like to show her I am hopeful and optimistic about us reconciling.
^^^ doesn't she already know this?
Be careful here.
WW has an appointment with her IC tomorrow at 2pm. I know her IC is working toward R. I pray she can make some progress with her.
Let it go!!! Let it go!!!
Going out to watch football tonight. I have really been trying to implement "let her go", GAL and detaching. I go out with friends a couple times a week and I don't tell her where I'm going, who I'm with or what I'm doing. I have also stopped saying good bye when I leave the house unless she is standing right there.
The one thing I wonder about is I reclaimed the MB on Tuesday night. I wonder if she'll take the kids in there and sleep in there tonight. That will fill up the bed and not leave room for me. It wouldn't surprise me since I won't be home until late. Hmmmm......do I try to move the kids over and slip into bed anyway? Is that standing up for myself and enforcing the boundaries I set or am I being a jerk?
The one thing I wonder about is I reclaimed the MB on Tuesday night. I wonder if she'll take the kids in there and sleep in there tonight. That will fill up the bed and not leave room for me. It wouldn't surprise me since I won't be home until late. Hmmmm......do I try to move the kids over and slip into bed anyway? Is that standing up for myself and enforcing the boundaries I set or am I being a jerk?
Considering how you have filled the subservient role to your W all those years, you are going to have to get past hang-ups of possibly being a jerk. (Not saying you should be one, but don't second guess yourself). The first time she accuses you, you'll back down and be back to walking on glass.
I don't agree with initiating hugs, or other physical affection, while your W is wayward. Btw, look that definition up, and you may realize she's been wayward a long, long time.
I am sorry about her childhood. I am also sorry you chose to handle her terrible teatment toward you, the way you did. Unfortunately, we see way too much of this in stories like yours. Taking the approach that you originally took, doesn't work. It just doesn't. And by now, you are beaten down, feel as though you "deserved" bad treatment b/c you of that one night. You will need a lot of support and determination to overcome that old mindset you've had about the role you should have as the H.
You will get plenty of support here. You may get conflicting advice from your Church friends, your IC, and the board. If you begin getting too confused, you may have to decide from which source to listen.
Please read the links Cadet gave you. They are important tools to use.
Stick with us, and post often.
Oh, and tell her that the kids will not be spending the night in the MBR. If she wants to sleep with them, she can do it elsewhere, but not in the same bed with you. Do not return to the other bedroom. If it's been allowed in the past, it's time for a new house rule........or a boundary. Read about boundaries.
Be a father who teaches his children about being a man.
Sandi,
Thank you so much for reading up on my sitch.
I just looked up the definition of wayward and you exactly right. She's been wayward since the day I met her.
-difficult to control or predict because of unusual or perverse behavior. synonyms: willful, headstrong, stubborn, obstinate, obdurate, perverse, contrary, disobedient, insubordinate,
Unfortunately I didn't fully understand my role as the H until I really started to study it over this last year. I've learned a ton this last year and have made massive changes in my life. I've experienced the greatest amount of growth and self development of my life. The total sitch makes me sad but I know with out the turmoil the necessary changes would never had occurred.
I am resolute in my changes. I have become and will continue to grow into the man/father my children will need. I will set the right standard and example. And I have grown into and will continue to learn to be the H I should have always been. (It's helpful for me to declare these things)
Unfortunately I spent years not holding her accountable for her inappropriate behavior and allowing her to treat me badly. I always told myself I was just being a peace keeper but now I realize I was enabling her.
I completely agree with you about affection. I've turned the affection back off and will not turn it back on unless I feel led to do so. I know God speaks to us through His word, His voice and other people. So I will be very careful with this and make sure it is His will and not mine.
The support and advice I've obtained here has been invaluable and has been very congruent with my church friends and IC. I will continue to post here and read here.
So, last night I got home from the gym and no one was home. I cleaned up and left. GAL'd with a buddy having dinner and watching football. I returned home about 10:30 and to my pleasant surprise the MBR was empty. Looks like she is respecting the boundary I set.
The other oddity I discovered is my W has 3 wedding rings that she use to wear together. 1 gold and 2 silver rings. She took 2 of them off about 3 months ago and was only wearing 1 silver one until about 4 weeks ago when she removed that one too. She keeps them in a lidless box on top of the dresser. I noticed last night that one of the silver rings is not in the box. I saw her for a couple hours on Wed night as we watched TV with the kids but wasn't looking for a ring. I only saw her for about 30 seconds early yesterday morning and have not seen or spoke to her since. I'm curious if she is wearing one again. I highly doubt she would just move one of the rings.
Seems to me she is doing some temp checking b/c she just asked about installing new carpet and now she MIGHT be wearing one of her rings. I'm going to be very cautious with this....... I will not agree to install new carpet until we figure things out. She can just deal with the old carpet that she hates. She needs to continue to feel more loss b/c of her choices. If she wouldn't have had her first A we would have already had new carpet. She can do w/out. AND, IF she is wearing her ring I'm going to be sure to not take notice or make mention of it.
Does it sound like I'm on the right path? I feel like I'm being true to myself.
Stay the course! Sounds like you are doing well
I don't think I'm taking detaching too far. I'm going to the movies after work today and then probably meeting up with another friend after. Haven't spoke with W since yesterday morning and have no intention of telling her where I'm going or that I won't be home until late.
I do miss my little D4 but I'll spend all day with her tomorrow. WW let me know earlier this week that she was making plans for Saturday night. so I don't think I should have to notify her that I won't be around at all tonight.
I am resolute in my changes. I have become and will continue to grow into the man/father my children will need. I will set the right standard and example. And I have grown into and will continue to learn to be the H I should have always been. (It's helpful for me to declare these things)
I agree, declaring those statements to yourself is important. You made need to mentally say it several times at day, or look yourself in the mirror when you make this resolve. I don't think you should say it to the WW, b/c she will not react positively.
Unfortunately I spent years not holding her accountable for her inappropriate behavior and allowing her to treat me badly. I always told myself I was just being a peace keeper but now I realize I was enabling her.
This is huge b/c many newcomers just don't get it. You are coming to terms with a lot. Overcoming that type of behavior and taking a complete 180 may be like birthing a new life. Your life!
My own father was from the WWII generation, and he was remarkable.......at least in my eyes. My mother was a sweet, loving, strong, independent, and spirited lady. Although they kept things private from the kids, I knew her well enough that I can say......she challenged him at times. (Every woman will, at times, challenge her H.). Whenever she started to treat him a little dispectfully........He would lovingly, yet firmly, tell her she could not treat him that way. If it continued into the next day, his stance became stronger. He never told her in front of the kids. He talked to her in private. The reason I know, is b/c she told me a lot about it, after I was grown. And she admitted that she was out of line whenever this would happen. (25 years after his death, she had yet to consider getting out to meet someone new.
). He taught me how a man can adore his W and treat her as his equal.......and how he can be the head of his home. (Not a popular term in modern society, but I don't care. God's Word is not outdated.)
Sorry for taking up so much on my parents' MR. I really meant to tell you how a father teaches his children what a man should be and his role in life and in relationships. His sons will watch him, as a pattern in how to treat their own wives. His daughters will watch him to learn how to treat her own H, and what kind of man to marry. Your children have seen a bad example from their mother. So, this is certainly not going to be easy for you, but with God's help and your dedication to follow through, I believe your life can be so much better in the future, than it has in the past.
You will see a lot of oddities from your WW. Pay no attention to the rings. If you ask, then she's won a secret victory. Do not show that you are concerned one way the other.
Yes, you are on the right tract.
I would like to show her I am hopeful and optimistic about us reconciling. I believe agreeing to carpet and being excited about it would show hope. It would show I do see a future for us without stating it. Actions being louder than words. However, in order to protect myself I would stipulate in mediation that if one of us decided to keep the house they would also take on the any debt accrued for updating the house.
It is only
your feelings that wants to tell her, assure her, that you still want to reconcile. They are NOT her feelings! This woman is cold and hard. She does not want you for a H. Reassuring her that you are optimistic, could have very bad results.
When a woman has been in and out of affairs during the M, and treated her H with contempt...........she does want to hear how he still wants to be M to her. Her disdain will rise higher.
You see, telling a "normal" W these feelings, make sense. Your WW is not concerned about losing you! She doesn't care.
You may be able to have a future M with her, but considering her affairs and other behavior, I think she's going to need to experience life without you, first. Don't tell her your feelings. Every time you do, It pushes her further away. She does think like you.
Sandi,
Dang it! Just had a conversation and wish I would have been able to log in to see this first. I was gone most of the day and when I returned she was organizing divorce paperwork. I asked what I need to have ready and she started telling me. I said you're shooting to get this done as soon as possible. I stopped...sat down and said " I do not want a divorce. I do not want a marriage like we had and I believe we could have a very healthy marriage". She said "Well your behaviors are not making me want to stay M. I don't know who you're getting advice from but kicking me out of the bedroom makes me Hate you and further enforces I'm doing the right thing. You being gone all the time and not spending time with the family makes me feel like you don't want to be around us." She also said " all I've ever asked you for is space and you refused to move out". Which I thought was a little crazy bc she's talking out of both sides of her mouth. I told her sleeping in the master bedroom is me setting boundaries. That I am not the one choosing to leave the M and if she needs space she can leave.
We also talked about selling the house. She said she wanted to sell it ASAP. I said I'm not selling until all the paperwork is signed bc I don't want the divorce and I believe we can have a very healthy M with God's help
I don't know if I should have told her I don't want the divorce again. She said my actions are saying I do want it. Ugh....so confusing
On Saturday morning she gave me a hard time saying we needed to create a schedule of who was going to watch our daughter bc I was gone thurs night, friday night and was going to be gone Sunday afternoon. She said it wasn't fair. I said sleeping with another man isn't fair either as I pulled away. She then sent this text message which I felt was a little confusing
"I spent over an hour yesterday with my IC and by saying this I am not trying in anyway to reconcile. I am not sleeping w anyone!!!!! But honestly, I don't care what you think. If it makes you feel better about yourself, think whatever you want about me"
I said
"I came home thurs. No one was home and I left. I went out last night. You have plans today/tonight. I have plans tomorrow."
She said
" I don't care that you're not around. We just need to make a a schedule"
Here are my thoughts. She mentioned her IC and reconciliation bc they are talking about it and it's not off the table. It's being considered. When she said "if it makes you feel better about yourself" she thinks I'm seeing someone bc I've been gone from the house so much and she does care that I'm away from the house a lot or she wouldn't mention it.
Any thoughts out there?
Well....tried to write this late last night and didn't get it all in. When she was going through the divorce paperwork and I was asking questions about it she said " last week you said you didn't want this divorce and now you're all gung ho about it"
I then stopped, sat down and told her " I do not want a divorce. I do not want a marriage like we had and I believe we could have a very healthy marriage". She said "Well your behaviors are not making me want to stay M. I don't know who you're getting advice from but kicking me out of the bedroom makes me Hate you and further enforces I'm doing the right thing. You being gone all the time and not spending time with the family makes me feel like you don't want to be around us."
There was a lot said this weekend and some of it very confusing to me. I would love some insight if anyone can provide it.
1. Twice this weekend she told me she is not having an affair. She said she is not spending time with, sleeping with or even kissing anyone else. I think I believe her bc She has not been going out very often. Only once this last week. She didn't come home until 4:45 am but it wouldn't be unusually for her to go to her girlfriends, have some drinks, sleep a bit before coming home. I know she is still talking to OM and did spend the night with him at least once about 4 weeks ago. I'm inclined to believe there isn't a PA but I'm pretty sure there is still a EA.
2. In a rant she said that kicking her out of the MBR has made her uncomfortable. That whenever the boys sleep over (they're my stepsons) S14 is sleeping on the floor and that whoever I'm getting advice from doesn't know her bc this has made her hate me and makes her believe I do not want to be M. I told her there are plenty of beds and she could sleep in the basement or one of the other bedrooms. She said the boys do not want her to. I said "well this is bc of your choices. I'm creating boundaries for myself. I do not want a divorce. I am not the one leaving the marriage so I'm not leaving the house or the martial bedroom. She is leaving the M so she can leave the house too."
I hope this boundary is still a good strategy.
3. In the same rant she said I need to stop going to the gym so often, putting on my cologne to go out and clean the house. My question is how often should I be going out? I do help around the house but my W is a cleaning machine. How do I balance giving her space, being around enough to show I want to stay in the M, detaching, GAL-ing, showing tough love, not being a jerk for not helping with the cleaning? Or....do I make a statement like this "honoring your cleaning request, being around for dinner and family time, not going out or to the gym every night are things a H would do. When you start acting like my W I'll start treating you as my W." ?
4. Why would she say "I spent over an hour with my IC and by saying this I am not trying in any way to reconcile. I am not sleeping with anyone!!!! But honestly, I don't care what you think. If it makes you feel better about yourself, think whatever you want about me." ?
Is it bc her IC is telling her she should R? Is she being nice to me, not fighting to get back in the MBR and being so emphatic about not having an affair bc she believes I might be seeing someone and she's afraid to push me further away? She's afraid she's losing me?
5. I feel like I'm making progress with the detaching and setting boundaries. I feel I'm pushing her away but periodically reminding her that I do not want a divorce, I want and believe we can have a very healthy M. Should I stop reminding her that I do not want this divorce? Does making statements like that hurt my detaching efforts? Should I continue detaching at my current pace? Is it too intensive or not intensive enough?
More questions. I know the longer I can drag out our divorce the better chance we have of R. She filed on 9.14.2015. She scheduled our first mediation for 10.7.2015. We have our initial status conference on 10.20.2015. She's hoping we can have every thing done by mid December. How do I slow this down with out getting into litigation and costing us a ton of money?
I realize I'm posting a lot. It's been a confusing week and a lot has happened and I just had another WOW moment.
My family use to go to church on a very regular basis. WW has only gone to church once with us and once with a girlfriend since her A 4 months ago. I've also been able to get her to watch it online with us once. Every week I continue to tell her when I'm going to be taking out daughter and asking if she would like to join us. I have also periodically throughout the week asked her if she would like me to load it on the TV so she could watch church. I told her last night I would set it up if she wanted me to. She didn't respond. On my way into work this morning she called to discuss schedules this week. I told her I might go watch Monday Night Football but if she wanted to watch church I would come home and set it up for her instead. She said she didn't mind if I went to watch football. When I arrived at work I sent a txt saying "I'm praying for you".
Sorry for all the details but here is the "Wow Moment". She just sent a txt that said "I'm sorry that I cussed at you yesterday." Now that may not be surprising to some people but my WW cusses at me on regular basis and she has not apologized to me for anything in well over a year. What in the world is going on?
More questions?
1. I order both Divorce busting and Divorce remedy through Amazon. Divorce Remedy said it was delivered on Saturday to my work but no such luck. Any idea which stores I should be able to buy this in?
2. I've reclaimed the MBR and asked WW to leave. She has refused so far. She said she is not going to take the kids to an apartment. How much pressure should I apply here with out being a huge jerk?
I meant to have a "not" in this sentence:
When a woman has been in and out of affairs during the M, and treated her H with contempt...........she does not want to hear how he still wants to be M to her. Her disdain will rise higher.
Twice this weekend she told me she is not having an affair. She said she is not spending time with, sleeping with or even kissing anyone else. I think I believe her bc She has not been going out very often. Only once this last week. She didn't come home until 4:45 am but it wouldn't be unusually for her to go to her girlfriends, have some drinks, sleep a bit before coming home. I know she is still talking to OM and did spend the night with him at least once about 4 weeks ago. I'm inclined to believe there isn't a PA but I'm pretty sure there is still a EA.
Sure you want to believe her. All H's do. But this is a cheater's word, right? How do you know that she was at a GF's house till 4:45 am? Don't take the GF's word for it, or your WW's. Girl friends cover for one another.
Do you consider contacting OM and having an EA....
is an affair?
In a rant she said that kicking her out of the MBR has made her uncomfortable. That whenever the boys sleep over (they're my stepsons) S14 is sleeping on the floor and that whoever I'm getting advice from doesn't know her bc this has made her hate me and makes her believe I do not want to be M.
So much for you assuring her that you don't want a D.
Maybe I have a suspicious nature, but it wouldn't surprise me if she hasn't found your posts. She knows you are acting differently, so she suspects you are being instructed in what to do. It just sounds a bit too odd how she worded it, if those were her exact words. Be careful, it happens! Unless you've taken precaution to delete your computer history, she very likely has read what has been said. Either that, or it's a lucky guess.
BTW, this is all part of a WW telling her H that she had started thinking about things differently, until he went and did this ______ (fill in the blank). "I was going to give you another chance, but not after you've done this!" As if to hold that over you. It is pure manipulation. The WW is extremely talented at manipulation. The H is trying so hard and when she tells him that, he thinks, "Oh crap, I've ruined my chances. What was I thinking? I'll have to prove to her how badly I want this to work". Manipulation! That is the name of her game.
She wanted space, so you are giving her space, right? But she wants it on
her terms.
I do help around the house but my W is a cleaning machine. How do I balance giving her space, being around enough to show I want to stay in the M, detaching, GAL-ing, showing tough love, not being a jerk for not helping with the cleaning? Or....do I make a statement like this "honoring your cleaning request, being around for dinner and family time, not going out or to the gym every night are things a H would do. When you start acting like my W I'll start treating you as my W." ?
I don't think it will help to tell her. The biggest thing is to stop trying to win her. Stop trying to make brownie points with housekeeping. Stop trying to convince her of anything or try to trade out with her. You can't make her be a good wife by telling her what you will do in return. (However, I know what are saying in the above. It's not that it's wrong, but it just won't work). None of this will matter to her, even if she slings it back in your face when she gets mad. You cannot please her! She will twist and turn everything. These are the most usual mistakes that newcomer LBH's make with a WW. What
does work, is when you stop acting as if you care. Not like a cold jerk kind of way. I mean, if she was sick you'd care, but you know what I mean. Have a nonchalant attitude and move forward.
When she feels she is losing
you......instead of you losing her, then that begins to change the dynamics in the R. So far, she hasn't felt worried she's losing you, has she?
Why would she say "I spent over an hour with my IC and by saying this I am not trying in any way to reconcile. I am not sleeping with anyone!!!! But honestly, I don't care what you think. If it makes you feel better about yourself, think whatever you want about me." ?
Is it bc her IC is telling her she should R? Is she being nice to me, not fighting to get back in the MBR and being so emphatic about not having an affair bc she believes I might be seeing someone and she's afraid to push me further away? She's afraid she's losing me?
Who knows! Just don't believe what she says.
5. I feel like I'm making progress with the detaching and setting boundaries. I feel I'm pushing her away but periodically reminding her that I do not want a divorce, I want and believe we can have a very healthy M. Should I stop reminding her that I do not want this divorce? Does making statements like that hurt my detaching efforts? Should I continue detaching at my current pace? Is it too intensive or not intensive enough?
I'm just against
reminding a wayward that you don't want a divorce. She knows it. It can void so much of the work you do, to come behind it with another, "But I don't want a divorce". She does not have a bad memory! It assures her that you are very much attached. No, I don't think your detaching efforts are too intense, b/c you're still attached. See what I mean? As long as you are concerned about detaching too much, you aren't detaching enough. However, I think you are off to a good start.
Have you really read the detachment link?
Sandi
Thank you so much. I'm having a really hard day. This last week she has actually been civil to me most of the time and I know if I'm getting the results I want then I should continue the actions getting those results. Detach, detach, detach.
Dang it!!!! I know better than to let my guard down.
Twice this weekend she told me she is not having an affair. She said she is not spending time with, sleeping with or even kissing anyone else. I think I believe her bc She has not been going out very often. Only once this last week. She didn't come home until 4:45 am but it wouldn't be unusually for her to go to her girlfriends, have some drinks, sleep a bit before coming home. I know she is still talking to OM and did spend the night with him at least once about 4 weeks ago. I'm inclined to believe there isn't a PA but I'm pretty sure there is still a EA.
Sure you want to believe her. All H's do. But this is a cheater's word, right? How do you know that she was at a GF's house till 4:45 am? Don't take the GF's word for it, or your WW's. Girl friends cover for one another.
I don't know and I didn't ask. And I've been thinking I hope she did spend time with OM so she can see he is not half the man I am. That's what happened with her first A.
Do you consider contacting OM and having an EA....is an affair?
I do consider it an affair. Any contact with OM is still unacceptable and to not be tolerated.
In a rant she said that kicking her out of the MBR has made her uncomfortable. That whenever the boys sleep over (they're my stepsons) S14 is sleeping on the floor and that whoever I'm getting advice from doesn't know her bc this has made her hate me and makes her believe I do not want to be M.
So much for you assuring her that you don't want a D.
Maybe I have a suspicious nature, but it wouldn't surprise me if she hasn't found your posts. She knows you are acting differently, so she suspects you are being instructed in what to do. It just sounds a bit too odd how she worded it, if those were her exact words. Be careful, it happens! Unless you've taken precaution to delete your computer history, she very likely has read what has been said. Either that, or it's a lucky guess.
She couldn't have found the posts. The only computer I've used to post from is at work until late last night I used the home computer. I made sure to clear the history.
She does know I see my IC weekly and I talk regularly with my men's group from church. I've told her on several occasions when making a decision, such as when she asked me to move out, that I spent significant time praying about it and sought guidance from my IC and other Christian men. So she knows I'm just reacting on my own emotion but seeking lots of guidance through this.
BTW, this is all part of a WW telling her H that she had started thinking about things differently, until he went and did this ______ (fill in the blank). "I was going to give you another chance, but not after you've done this!" As if to hold that over you. It is pure manipulation. The WW is extremely talented at manipulation. The H is trying so hard and when she tells him that, he thinks, "Oh crap, I've ruined my chances. What was I thinking? I'll have to prove to her how badly I want this to work". Manipulation! That is the name of her game.
She wanted space, so you are giving her space, right? But she wants it on her terms.
Yes! It is manipulation! I did give her space but it wasn't enough because it wasn't on her terms. I initially lived on other peoples couches for 3 weeks which she says doesn't count bc most of those nights I was on her XH couch. It does count. She needed space and I played nomad for several weeks. But it wasn't on her terms so to her it doesn't count. Then I moved to the basement for 4 weeks. Again, not on her terms so it doesn't count. Now I've reclaimed the MBR and all along I've told her I'm not moving out. She is the one having an A, she is the one leaving the M, She can move out.
I do help around the house but my W is a cleaning machine. How do I balance giving her space, being around enough to show I want to stay in the M, detaching, GAL-ing, showing tough love, not being a jerk for not helping with the cleaning? Or....do I make a statement like this "honoring your cleaning request, being around for dinner and family time, not going out or to the gym every night are things a H would do. When you start acting like my W I'll start treating you as my W." ?
I don't think it will help to tell her. The biggest thing is to stop trying to win her. Stop trying to make brownie points with housekeeping. Stop trying to convince her of anything or try to trade out with her. You can't make her be a good wife by telling her what you will do in return. (However, I know what are saying in the above. It's not that it's wrong, but it just won't work). None of this will matter to her, even if she slings it back in your face when she gets mad. You cannot please her! She will twist and turn everything. These are the most usual mistakes that newcomer LBH's make with a WW. What
does work, is when you stop acting as if you care. Not like a cold jerk kind of way. I mean, if she was sick you'd care, but you know what I mean. Have a nonchalant attitude and move forward.
When she feels she is losing
you......instead of you losing her, then that begins to change the dynamics in the R. So far, she hasn't felt worried she's losing you, has she?
Why would she say "I spent over an hour with my IC and by saying this I am not trying in any way to reconcile. I am not sleeping with anyone!!!! But honestly, I don't care what you think. If it makes you feel better about yourself, think whatever you want about me." ?
Is it bc her IC is telling her she should R? Is she being nice to me, not fighting to get back in the MBR and being so emphatic about not having an affair bc she believes I might be seeing someone and she's afraid to push me further away? She's afraid she's losing me?
Who knows! Just don't believe what she says.
5. I feel like I'm making progress with the detaching and setting boundaries. I feel I'm pushing her away but periodically reminding her that I do not want a divorce, I want and believe we can have a very healthy M. Should I stop reminding her that I do not want this divorce? Does making statements like that hurt my detaching efforts? Should I continue detaching at my current pace? Is it too intensive or not intensive enough?
I'm just against
reminding a wayward that you don't want a divorce. She knows it. It can void so much of the work you do, to come behind it with another, "But I don't want a divorce". She does not have a bad memory! It assures her that you are very much attached. No, I don't think your detaching efforts are too intense, b/c you're still attached. See what I mean? As long as you are concerned about detaching too much, you aren't detaching enough. However, I think you are off to a good start.
Have you really read the detachment link?
dang it! I tried to edit but lost my editing time.
Sandi
Thank you so much. I'm having a really hard day. This last week she has actually been civil to me most of the time and I know if I'm getting the results I want then I should continue the actions getting those results. Detach, detach, detach.
Dang it!!!! I know better than to let my guard down.
Twice this weekend she told me she is not having an affair. She said she is not spending time with, sleeping with or even kissing anyone else. I think I believe her bc She has not been going out very often. Only once this last week. She didn't come home until 4:45 am but it wouldn't be unusually for her to go to her girlfriends, have some drinks, sleep a bit before coming home. I know she is still talking to OM and did spend the night with him at least once about 4 weeks ago. I'm inclined to believe there isn't a PA but I'm pretty sure there is still a EA.
Sure you want to believe her. All H's do. But this is a cheater's word, right? How do you know that she was at a GF's house till 4:45 am? Don't take the GF's word for it, or your WW's. Girl friends cover for one another.
I don't know and I didn't ask. And I've been thinking I hope she did spend time with OM so she can see he is not half the man I am. That's what happened with her first A.
Do you consider contacting OM and having an EA....is an affair?
I do consider it an affair. Any contact with OM is still unacceptable and to not be tolerated.
In a rant she said that kicking her out of the MBR has made her uncomfortable. That whenever the boys sleep over (they're my stepsons) S14 is sleeping on the floor and that whoever I'm getting advice from doesn't know her bc this has made her hate me and makes her believe I do not want to be M.
So much for you assuring her that you don't want a D.
Maybe I have a suspicious nature, but it wouldn't surprise me if she hasn't found your posts. She knows you are acting differently, so she suspects you are being instructed in what to do. It just sounds a bit too odd how she worded it, if those were her exact words. Be careful, it happens! Unless you've taken precaution to delete your computer history, she very likely has read what has been said. Either that, or it's a lucky guess.
She couldn't have found the posts. The only computer I've used to post from is at work until late last night I used the home computer. I made sure to clear the history.
She does know I see my IC weekly and I talk regularly with my men's group from church. I've told her on several occasions when making a decision, such as when she asked me to move out, that I spent significant time praying about it and sought guidance from my IC and other Christian men. So she knows I'm just reacting on my own emotion but seeking lots of guidance through this.
BTW, this is all part of a WW telling her H that she had started thinking about things differently, until he went and did this ______ (fill in the blank). "I was going to give you another chance, but not after you've done this!" As if to hold that over you. It is pure manipulation. The WW is extremely talented at manipulation. The H is trying so hard and when she tells him that, he thinks, "Oh crap, I've ruined my chances. What was I thinking? I'll have to prove to her how badly I want this to work". Manipulation! That is the name of her game.
She wanted space, so you are giving her space, right? But she wants it on her terms.
Yes! It is manipulation! I did give her space but it wasn't enough because it wasn't on her terms. I initially lived on other peoples couches for 3 weeks which she says doesn't count bc most of those nights I was on her XH couch. It does count. She needed space and I played nomad for several weeks. But it wasn't on her terms so to her it doesn't count. Then I moved to the basement for 4 weeks. Again, not on her terms so it doesn't count. Now I've reclaimed the MBR and all along I've told her I'm not moving out. She is the one having an A, she is the one leaving the M, She can move out.
I do help around the house but my W is a cleaning machine. How do I balance giving her space, being around enough to show I want to stay in the M, detaching, GAL-ing, showing tough love, not being a jerk for not helping with the cleaning? Or....do I make a statement like this "honoring your cleaning request, being around for dinner and family time, not going out or to the gym every night are things a H would do. When you start acting like my W I'll start treating you as my W." ?
I don't think it will help to tell her. The biggest thing is to stop trying to win her. Stop trying to make brownie points with housekeeping. Stop trying to convince her of anything or try to trade out with her. You can't make her be a good wife by telling her what you will do in return. (However, I know what are saying in the above. It's not that it's wrong, but it just won't work). None of this will matter to her, even if she slings it back in your face when she gets mad. You cannot please her! She will twist and turn everything. These are the most usual mistakes that newcomer LBH's make with a WW. What
does work, is when you stop acting as if you care. Not like a cold jerk kind of way. I mean, if she was sick you'd care, but you know what I mean. Have a nonchalant attitude and move forward.
does it seem like I'm trying to win her back? I definitely don't want to leave that impression. I am trying to be a man only a fool would leave. I am trying to be nonchalant, not loving but not unloving.....not a door mat but not a jerk either.
When she feels she is losing you......instead of you losing her, then that begins to change the dynamics in the R. So far, she hasn't felt worried she's losing you, has she?
I believe I've been making progress with this over the last week. Tell me if I'm grasping at straws. Here are a couple things that are out of character for her. She hasn't fought me over reclaiming the MBR, she has been polite and respectful until last night, she made my bed a couple times, she went to see her IC for the first time in several weeks, she made a pt to tell me she's not trying to reconcile(we know she's a liar), she even apologized for cussing at me yesterday. She has cussed at me on a regular basis and has rarely apologized for it over our whole M. She has not apologized to me about anything significant for at least the last year. This was a definite Wow moment today. I was utterly shocked!
Why would she say "I spent over an hour with my IC and by saying this I am not trying in any way to reconcile. I am not sleeping with anyone!!!! But honestly, I don't care what you think. If it makes you feel better about yourself, think whatever you want about me." ?
Is it bc her IC is telling her she should R? Is she being nice to me, not fighting to get back in the MBR and being so emphatic about not having an affair bc she believes I might be seeing someone and she's afraid to push me further away? She's afraid she's losing me?
Who knows! Just don't believe what she says.
Got It! I need to be reminded about every 10 minutes that she is a cheater and a liar!
5. I feel like I'm making progress with the detaching and setting boundaries. I feel I'm pushing her away but periodically reminding her that I do not want a divorce, I want and believe we can have a very healthy M. Should I stop reminding her that I do not want this divorce? Does making statements like that hurt my detaching efforts? Should I continue detaching at my current pace? Is it too intensive or not intensive enough?
I'm just against
reminding a wayward that you don't want a divorce. She knows it. It can void so much of the work you do, to come behind it with another, "But I don't want a divorce". She does not have a bad memory! It assures her that you are very much attached. No, I don't think your detaching efforts are too intense, b/c you're still attached. See what I mean? As long as you are concerned about detaching too much, you aren't detaching enough. However, I think you are off to a good start.
Have you really read the detachment link?
I will do my best to not remind her that I don't want a divorce directly and verbally. I will do my best to not answer this question or assumption from her directly. How should this be addressed?
Probably with just a look but nothing concrete.
I am afraid some day she will say "you wanted this divorce too, you didn't assure me that you didn't want it" but she knows the truth. I've told her dozens of times. I'm also afraid she will think I've moved on and it's too late to save our M. That she can't win me back. Ugh....I feel I'm walking a tightrope but I know I must "let her go" and continue praying for her. Only God can move her heart and I am hopeful that pulling away will draw her to me.
So...... I know the longer I can drag out our divorce the better chance we have of R. She filed on 9.14.2015. She scheduled our first mediation for 10.7.2015. We have our initial status conference on 10.20.2015. She's hoping we can have every thing done by mid December. How do I slow this down with out getting into litigation and costing us a ton of money?
Good luck gnicks, I am on the same sitch. I have to do the same things. We can do this!
Mediation tomorrow. Got to figure out how to drag my feet and slow this process down. Give God as much time to work as possible.
My family use to go to church on a very regular basis. WW has only gone to church once with us and once with a girlfriend since her A 4 months ago. I've also been able to get her to watch it online with us once. Every week I continue to tell her when I'm going to be taking out daughter and asking if she would like to join us. I have also periodically throughout the week asked her if she would like me to load it on the TV so she could watch church. I told her last night I would set it up if she wanted me to. She didn't respond. On my way into work this morning she called to discuss schedules this week. I told her I might go watch Monday Night Football but if she wanted to watch church I would come home and set it up for her instead. She said she didn't mind if I went to watch football. When I arrived at work I sent a txt saying "I'm praying for you".
This is way too pushy. It will smother a WW. You cannot force feed her. Let it go and let her put on her big girl panties.
Oh, another tip is don't tell her you are praying for her. To a WW, it sounds kind of like a preacher or fanatic, and it turns her off. I mean, sure you can pray for her.....but don't tell her you are. The main point is that you were totally pursuing her. It makes no difference if people use their kids, church, work, holidays.....whatever, it's still a source of pursuit.
g,
I am not sure there is anything we can do to slow the process down. i feel like i ma watching a movie but i can feel the pain. There is nothing we can do. I watched war room last night and i am not sure if it helped me or made me feel worse. it makes everything look so easy and all happy endings. I am trying to let him work also, i just dont know where he wants me to work myself or if i should be doing anything different.
Got to figure out how to drag my feet and slow this process down. Give God as much time to work as possible.
God doesn't need your help.
He is big enough to handle things in His own way and in His own time. (I know, I try to give God
suggestions all the time.
)
I don't know that I agree that the LBS should drag their feet to slow the process down. B/c when you drag your feet, you are resisting her. All it really accomplishes is in her getting more angry and maybe sticking it to you more....b/c she's mad. I
do agree that she needs to take care of the paperwork, etc. But if you are focused on what to do to slow things down, it takes away your attention on what you need to do to change the dynamics of the relationship.
Who knows, it may take a D to open her eyes.
g,
I am not sure there is anything we can do to slow the process down. i feel like i ma watching a movie but i can feel the pain. There is nothing we can do. I watched war room last night and i am not sure if it helped me or made me feel worse. it makes everything look so easy and all happy endings. I am trying to let him work also, i just dont know where he wants me to work myself or if i should be doing anything different.
I know what you're saying. My parents watched War Room and suggested I watch it but I'm not sure I want to watch a movie about a struggling marriage. I'm living it. I did do a devotional through the bible app on my phone based on the movie. It was really good.
Gnicks
Ok .. I get the panic in your sitch … I’ve been there, just where you are .. in fact twice… once in Mar13 and again in Mar 14. Sandi is spot on with everything she has said and I totally agree ..I will just hit on some key points that she addressed but they are important.
The first .. praying for her, setting up the TV to watch .. all that … while your heart is in the right place its coming off as pursuing, on top of that it sends a judgmental tone … she had the A, the guilt is there or it isn’t .. that is between her and God, God doesn’t need your help he already has this figured out and you are pushing YOUR agenda here … sure fighting for your marriage may be noble but the more you squeeze the harder she will fight to slip out and you getting up on the pulpit will only make her run harder, she will turn to God when most of us typically do … when we need him to fix the mess we made, we realize the damage we’ve done and we own up to our mistakes … your WW is not there.
As far as the mediation … as Sandi says your W knows you do not want it .. it’s a power play here, you are deprerately wanting to do all in your power to stop this and regain control, she is pushing it to keep control. Reading your posts I will lean on your faith. Do you truly trust God? Go and really get some quiet time and be alone with Him, my advice … what I did .. I gave my M to God and decided to use that energy and focused on myself and my son. I showed up to both the mediation sessions happy, at peace and ready to accept whatever it was God decided for me. W had doubts and DBing, having faith, above all having patience is the only reason I am not D. Even if I was D’d I knew in my heart I was going to be OK .. you need to work on yourself a bit and let God have this portion of the fight.
Last thing, I think you see it and looks like sandi touched on it. A W never seems to love a man she does not respect. You retaking the MBR was a step .. but you must continue to build your own self-worth and rebuild your self-esteem. My W was a lot like yours, critical, vicious with the words and over time she broke me down, I became a fixer, conflict avoid .. its common among us LBHs here and when we start to rebuild ourselves, set boundaries and demand to be treated with respect … one would think its empowering but I argue its nothing short of freedom, not carrying around that weight of having to accept punishment is an extremely liberating thing.
My advice … stand up for yourself in mediation, consult a L to protect YOUR rights and insulate your children. This is HER choice, you do not have to like it but respect this is what she feels she needs, in her mind you are the singular obstacle in the way of her happiness and she will have to discover if that is true on her own without your help. You’ve been a door mat for much of the marriage, she is not used to you sticking up for yourself … let her spew and pout as things do not go her way .. its normal .. she will not like it but the hopes are she will at the least start respecting you.
Got to figure out how to drag my feet and slow this process down. Give God as much time to work as possible.
God doesn't need your help.
He is big enough to handle things in His own way and in His own time. (I know, I try to give God
suggestions all the time.
).
Of course you're right. God doesn't need our help. He needs me to give it to Him and take my hands off so He can work on our behalf.
I don't know that I agree that the LBS should drag their feet to slow the process down. B/c when you drag your feet, you are resisting her. All it really accomplishes is in her getting more angry and maybe sticking it to you more....b/c she's mad. I do agree that she needs to take care of the paperwork, etc. But if you are focused on what to do to slow things down, it takes away your attention on what you need to do to change the dynamics of the relationship.
Who knows, it may take a D to open her eyes.
Oddly, I just got off the phone with her XH. He said the same thing about dragging my feet. He has been a great support through this whole process and until today he said I should not leave the house. I should reclaim the MBR. I should not let her push me around. However, today he said maybe I should consider moving out. She's not going to move out. Maybe if I moved out it would give us the space we need to alleviate tension and appreciate each other again, it wouldn't make her mad and could buy us some more time and slow down the divorce. He is the first one, besides my WW, who has said maybe I should move out and give her the space she's asking for. It would definitely change the dynamic. It's giving her what she is asking for and I could negotiate it in order to slow down the divorce process. Right now we are basically separated but living in the same house and she has made it clear she is not leaving. She had originally said if I wouldn't leave she would but I asked her about it this weekend and she said she's not moving to an apartment with the kids. Which in itself is BS bc she expects me to.
I have offered several times to sit down with a one of our IC's to create a structured/guided separation but she doesn't trust my IC, her IC said she couldn't do it bc WW is her client. I even offered to have her IC recommend someone. WW refused so far.
So my thoughts are it's only been a week since I reclaimed the MBR and there have been some changes this last week. However if the changes stop or take steps backwards I'll email both of our IC's and ask them to give us guidelines for a separation agreement. Then propose it while negotiating slowing down the D process....Maybe 3 months.
Thoughts?
Never mind. Just read CaliGuy's post. I don't think I should even be considering moving out.
Gnicks
Ok .. I get the panic in your sitch … I’ve been there, just where you are .. in fact twice… once in Mar13 and again in Mar 14. Sandi is spot on with everything she has said and I totally agree ..I will just hit on some key points that she addressed but they are important.
Thank you. You and Sandi are being great to me. I hope someday I can repay you in some way. It's wonderful to hear from another guy who has successfully navigated through my sitch.
The first .. praying for her, setting up the TV to watch .. all that … while your heart is in the right place its coming off as pursuing, on top of that it sends a judgmental tone … she had the A, the guilt is there or it isn’t .. that is between her and God, God doesn’t need your help he already has this figured out and you are pushing YOUR agenda here … sure fighting for your marriage may be noble but the more you squeeze the harder she will fight to slip out and you getting up on the pulpit will only make her run harder, she will turn to God when most of us typically do … when we need him to fix the mess we made, we realize the damage we’ve done and we own up to our mistakes … your WW is not there.
Again, you both are right. It is pursuing and sounds preachy/judgmental. She knows I can set up the TV to watch it online and she can ask me if she'd like to watch it. I will continue to take my daughter to church. I'll let my WW know she is welcome to join us but will not ask her to go. Does this sound right "D4 and I are going to the 9am service. You're welcome to join us if you'd like."
She knows I pray for her so I don't need to tell her.
She also knows I do my daily devotionals every morning in my office and she is welcome to join me at any time.
I will continue to set the right example and let her come to me.
As far as the mediation … as Sandi says your W knows you do not want it .. it’s a power play here, you are deprerately wanting to do all in your power to stop this and regain control, she is pushing it to keep control. Reading your posts I will lean on your faith. Do you truly trust God? Go and really get some quiet time and be alone with Him, my advice … what I did .. I gave my M to God and decided to use that energy and focused on myself and my son. I showed up to both the mediation sessions happy, at peace and ready to accept whatever it was God decided for me. W had doubts and DBing, having faith, above all having patience is the only reason I am not D. Even if I was D’d I knew in my heart I was going to be OK .. you need to work on yourself a bit and let God have this portion of the fight.
I have really been striving to do this part. To let her go, let my M go and let God. If we D I will be better than OK bc He has a plan for me better than I can imagine.
Your insight here is fantastic. I'm going to show up to mediation tomorrow happy, at peace and ready to accept whatever it is God has for me. And I'm going to have patience. For the last couple weeks or so I've been hearing God tell me "Wait." Waiting is so hard!
Last thing, I think you see it and looks like sandi touched on it. A W never seems to love a man she does not respect. You retaking the MBR was a step .. but you must continue to build your own self-worth and rebuild your self-esteem. My W was a lot like yours, critical, vicious with the words and over time she broke me down, I became a fixer, conflict avoid .. its common among us LBHs here and when we start to rebuild ourselves, set boundaries and demand to be treated with respect … one would think its empowering but I argue its nothing short of freedom, not carrying around that weight of having to accept punishment is an extremely liberating thing.
It has felt GREAT! She has not treated with my respect and mostly bc I've allowed it. I've enabled her bad behavior But no more. This last week there have been some significant changes so I will continue on the path I'm on and alter a couple things based on the advice you guys are giving me ie eliminate all acts of pursuing, preaching, and not tolerating being treated as her doormat. I believe I set some good boundaries and foundation this last week and will continue to build on it.
My advice … stand up for yourself in mediation, consult a L to protect YOUR rights and insulate your children. This is HER choice, you do not have to like it but respect this is what she feels she needs, in her mind you are the singular obstacle in the way of her happiness and she will have to discover if that is true on her own without your help. You’ve been a door mat for much of the marriage, she is not used to you sticking up for yourself … let her spew and pout as things do not go her way .. its normal .. she will not like it but the hopes are she will at the least start respecting you.
Brilliant again! Thank you. I will not be pushed around in mediation and will not be her door mat anymore. I have consulted a L but will again if necessary.
I would at this point not invite her to church given all you've posted. If she wants to join you great, but you throwing it out there again seems to be pushy at this point.... I'd just let her be for a bit.
Here is the thing, you've put in some serious changes but your WW will be of the opinion it's all a trick, like you have a spring loaded trap to catch her and get her back into the M .... It's going to take MONTHS, maybe longer for her to accept your changes and believe they are real and will stick... Let's be honest, it's going to take you being consistent in keeping up these changes regardless if your WW buys me or not.
She fired you... The M you had is gone , from the sounds of it it's most likely better off that way. I can not stress enough that you need to focus on yourself and work to improve for you... Do the work, use the gift of time... The holidays are coming and it's going to get bumpy and if you do not have your head screwed on tight this is going to be even harder.
What are your goals?
GALs ?
I would at this point not invite her to church given all you've posted. If she wants to join you great, but you throwing it out there again seems to be pushy at this point.... I'd just let her be for a bit.
Got it. I'll not invite her. She knows she's welcome if she would like to go.
Here is the thing, you've put in some serious changes but your WW will be of the opinion it's all a trick, like you have a spring loaded trap to catch her and get her back into the M .... It's going to take MONTHS, maybe longer for her to accept your changes and believe they are real and will stick... Let's be honest, it's going to take you being consistent in keeping up these changes regardless if your WW buys me or not.
Ugh.....I don't have months. Luckily these changes are for me. I'll no longer allow anyone to walk on me or abuse me the way she has. I never did before her. I became soft towards her and enabled her. Bad mistake.
She fired you... The M you had is gone , from the sounds of it it's most likely better off that way. I can not stress enough that you need to focus on yourself and work to improve for you... Do the work, use the gift of time... The holidays are coming and it's going to get bumpy and if you do not have your head screwed on tight this is going to be even harder.
yeah the holidays are going to be weird plus We both have a B-day coming up.
It is better off that the M I had is gone. I will not go back to that M so I will either have a healthy M and healthy wife or I will have a D. I know in order to R it will take a long time and there will have to be significant changes in the way she behaves and treats me. There will also need to be significant changes in the dynamics of our R. She may not be willing to change and if she's not then we will be D. I will not accept a M like we had.
I feel my gift of time is very short.
What are your goals?
GALs ?
1st goal- a closer walk with God. I decided a little over a year ago that I was just going through the motions. I wasn't spending the time with Him that I needed to. I started daily devotions every morning in my office and have set it as a great way to start my day.
2nd goal I set financial goals in the spring before her first A. My goal was to make enough $ that she could quit her job and stay home with D4 by Aug 1st. I accomplished that goal with God's help. Too bad she decided to be unfaithful and is not reaping the blessings. She is still working.
My 3rd goal is to foster some real friendships. My wife had separated me from most of my friends and family. Our IC said it's an control issue for her stemming from her abuse as a child. This goal plays right into GAL-ing. I've been spending a lot of time with guys from my men's group at church and an old friend who just moved back to town. I've been away from the house 2-3 nights per week. I'm usually home no later than 11 pm.
My 4th goal was to have a 6 pack by my 40th birthday. It's on Thursday. I'm close but didn't quite get there. I've always been involved in sports and activities but had only been working out at home and not watching my nutrition. Since her A I've been hitting the gym hard and my appetite has been suppressed to a healthy level. This focus has really allowed me to feel more balanced and gives me an avenue to let out frustrations.
5th goal is to play rugby again. I was hoping to be able to join the squad this fall but I've hurt my legs a couple times and am now hoping to join in the spring.
So I ordered both books. DR has it was delivered on Saturday but it's not here. DB arrived today. Where do I start?
Both are similar... Start on chapter 1
Ugh....need to vent. When I got home tonight i left my phone on the kitchen island. It rang and a text msg came through while i was out of the room. When I walked back into the room my WW said "I picked up your phone and I don't think someone who wanted to reconcile their marriage would have a code on their phone. You have it on their to hide all your secrets. You're a liar. I know you're f***ing some 17 yr old at the gym. You're doing steroids, working out all the time and f***ing some 17 yr old at the gym. You're talking bad about me our phone and sleeping around. You don't really want to reconcile it's just a big act so you can tell everyone this was all my fault and you did everything you could. When the truth is you're playing the nice guy but have your thing going on on the side." I just looked at her, nodded my head and walked away. I went to the office to get my head phones bc I could tell where this was going. She tried to bait me a couple more times and i just put in my headphones. I hung out with the kids and paid no attention to her.
I know I am not to reassure her and to act nonchalant but I know she has plans Wednesday night and she just told me I would need to take D4 to preschool on Thurs. I think she is accusing me of this stuff to justify her staying out with OM on Wednesday. What do I do?
1. nothing and act like it doesn't bother me
2. tell her falsely accusing me of sleeping around doesn't justify her actions. Her actions are her choices and I'm not to blame for the choices she is making
3. Tell her I can't take D4 to preschool on Thurs. Which may be true. It's going to make me late for work.
Ugh...
Mediation in 2 hours.
Thank you Cali for the statement about going into mediation happy and at peace. I believe this will not only help me detach but will also show her I'm letting go.
God always provides just what we need when we need it. This morning my devotional included this statement
"He travels with us. As you move through this day, He has gone ahead of you. As you reflect on yesterday, He has followed behind you. But best of all, right now in this moment, He places His hand f gracious blessing on your head."
MiL is coming to town tomorrow.
MiL says WW doesn't tell her what's really going on. I don't even know if the MiL knows WW filed for D. I know MiL has told WW she needs to end her A and work on our M. I have told her my desire to R but it was before WW filed D. Do I reassure the MiL about my resolve to R? That I have not given up and that I do not want this D?
Nope, no need to reassure anyone. Just breathe and come here before you do anything. Focus on the mediation and relax. Mediation can get heated, stay calm and resolute. Your WW may try to bait you into an argument. Breathe...
Typical behavior ... She is projecting her stuff onto you, you handled it well by not taking the bait.
Some moments like that are a good time for some truth darts, I once had a similar situation and I calmly asked my son what my passcode was (this was to show how open I was) ... I punched it in, handed her my phone and walked away. Only issue I honestly had was her looking at the history and finding this place (I don't think she knows how to do that nor what browser on my phone I use for this site... Still a gamble) but more concerned she was going to chuck the iPhone (new and no insurance) into a wall since I called her bluff and it pi$$ed her off.
Truth darts can be helpful if done calmly and deliberately just to call them on their absurd chit
Your GALs have her spinning, and note she is all to aware you still want to reconcile ... So keep your trap shut about that ... There will be a point she has to feel loss, and it looks like she is processing what is going to happen but the gravity of the situation has not set in... Stay PMA and stay the course
MiL is coming to town tomorrow.
MiL says WW doesn't tell her what's really going on. I don't even know if the MiL knows WW filed for D. I know MiL has told WW she needs to end her A and work on our M. I have told her my desire to R but it was before WW filed D. Do I reassure the MiL about my resolve to R? That I have not given up and that I do not want this D?
No... MIL is HER mother and in HER corner, and their relationship is between them ... Be polite but just let MIL know if she wants any information she will have to go through W to get it because you respect your Ws privacy and it's not your place to share the issues ... Your W will just blame you for turning everyone against her if you spill the beans
Worry about you and let your W spin, spew and pout... But DO NOT allow her to disrespect you verbally any longer... Remember you deserve better ... You are the prize
Nope, no need to reassure anyone. Just breathe and come here before you do anything. Focus on the mediation and relax. Mediation can get heated, stay calm and resolute. Your WW may try to bait you into an argument. Breathe...
Thanks Thornton. There was a point prior to mediation starting that she tried to bait me and she got a little out of me before I walked away.
Initially we were sitting in the hallway. I was reading on my phone and can see her staring at me. I stopped and we just stared at each other for several minutes. She began crying. After another minute or so she walked away. When she returned she said " I believe you're ready for this too. Someone who wanted to reconcile wouldn't have a code on their phone. You wouldn't be working out and getting lean to look good. You're getting ready for your next girlfriend." I said "please don't make assumptions about how I feel or what I'm thinking." She then went into her old routine about how I ended our marriage when I was unfaithful...... I told her I didn't have to listen to her mouth anymore and I walked away. I returned a couple minutes later and told her "We can't change the past. We can effect today and the future with our choices. All of this is her choice." She said " no you choose to end our marriage when you cheated." I said "no, I chose to reconcile, repent and ask for forgiveness. You're choosing to end our marriage now." She walked away.
Mediation was cordial. We agreed on parenting times. There was a lot of time spent talking about one of us moving out. In a very emotional time while with the mediator alone I asked her to type up something that would protect me if I were to decide to move out. It also included each of us seeing IC's a minimum of 1x week. WW agreed to see her IC 2x month.
After mediation I hit the gym and then my IC. Working out really clears my head. I realized I was considering an emotional decision to move out. I was trying to manipulate my WW to see her IC more frequently and elicit emotions from her. Hoping if I moved out she would miss me and her love for me would grow again. I know from the wonderful ppl on this forum that this does not work. I told her I would consider it and pray about it for a couple days but I already know the answer is I'm not moving out. It's completely against the advice here, my IC's advice and what I hear God telling me. We agreed I would give a decision by the 20th but I'm going to men's retreat this weekend and will tell her when I return.
Yeah moving out can have dire consequences regarding your kids and your visitation with them.
Keep putting one foot in front of the other and stay calm. Things can change, and they often do when you least expect it.
Keep working on you. Gym, counselor, GAL, and being an awesome dad.
MiL is coming to town tomorrow.
MiL says WW doesn't tell her what's really going on. I don't even know if the MiL knows WW filed for D. I know MiL has told WW she needs to end her A and work on our M. I have told her my desire to R but it was before WW filed D. Do I reassure the MiL about my resolve to R? That I have not given up and that I do not want this D?
No... MIL is HER mother and in HER corner, and their relationship is between them ... Be polite but just let MIL know if she wants any information she will have to go through W to get it because you respect your Ws privacy and it's not your place to share the issues ... Your W will just blame you for turning everyone against her if you spill the beans
Worry about you and let your W spin, spew and pout... But DO NOT allow her to disrespect you verbally any longer... Remember you deserve better ... You are the prize
That's right I am the PRIZE! I have and will continue to not allow her to disrespect me verbally or any other way. Thank you so much for the encouragement.
My IC suggested if I say anything to the MiL to only say "I haven't given up on this M or on your daughter."
You're getting ready for your next girlfriend." I said "please don't make assumptions about how I feel or what I'm thinking."
Your answer was good. When she says things like this, you don't
have to reply. Just look at her and then look away. Just let her think you are getting ready for the next one. She needs to worry about the fact she's putting you out on the market again. Don't assure her she's the only one.
She then went into her old routine about how I ended our marriage when I was unfaithful...... I told her I didn't have to listen to her mouth anymore and I walked away.
Excellent!
I returned a couple minutes later and told her "We can't change the past. We can effect today and the future with our choices. All of this is her choice.
I asked her to type up something that would protect me if I were to decide to move out.
Who did you ask?
It also included each of us seeing IC's a minimum of 1x week. WW agreed to see her IC 2x month.
Doesn't mean she'll actually go. What happens if she doesn't?
I was trying to manipulate my WW to see her IC more frequently and elicit emotions from her.
Yep!
You are getting there. Keep learning and growing. You are going to be great!
More crumbs?
I feel as if I've been given a couple more crumbs of things moving in the right direction.
Jealousy or concern she's losing me?
Over the last couple days she has been upset and has twice mentioned a security code on my phone, twice mentioned I've been working out, getting lean and looking good for my next girlfriend and has twiced accused me of sleeping with much younger women from the gym.
Trying to get my attention?
Last night I was laying in bed reading a book. She changed her shirt in front of me (back turned). I did not let her know I noticed. For at least the last month she has been sure to change in a different room and with the door closed.
Reaching out? Trying to attach?
-Last night WW, D4 and I were watching TV. WW was on a different couch reading on her phone when she put her head in her hands and began crying. I acted like I didn't notice. Several minutes later she said " I just received an email about my job interview. They aren't filling the position until November." She was expecting an answer this week. I said "that's not bad news." I feel like she was looking for me to give her support and reassurance. Maybe hug or cuddle her. I did not.
- This morning she stepped in the office. She said "Happy Birthday" I said "thank you". I wasn't expecting any acknowledgement of my bday at all. She then said " I feel frustrated bc you don't realize you ended our marriage when you cheated last year. You say you chose to reconcile, repent and ask forgiveness but I feel you ended it. You say I'm having an A but I'm not and maybe at first I was but not now. You did what you did and then I did something worse so if this makes you feel better about yourself so you can tell your friends and family that I did something worse...." I raised my hand and she stopped talking. I said "May I interject?" she nodded. " There isn't one part of this that makes me feel good. I don't feel better or good about any of it. I chose to reconcile, repent and ask YOU for forgiveness. I can not control your choices. I can not control whether you forgive me or not." She said "You say I haven't forgiven you for anything, ever. I feel I have forgiven you or I wouldn't be able to move on." I said " During the turmoil of this last year God has created in me a tremendous amount of character development. Your choices are yours and there isn't anything I can do about it but I know God has me. I have given you and our M over to Him and no matter what choices you make His plan for me is good." She said " I believe I loved you too much." She started crying and left the room.
At first I felt "here we again, really on my Bday you're going to drag up my past failures". But then I realized she's not angry. She's sharing feelings with me. Why is she sharing feelings with me? It's not to hurt me. Maybe it's bc she still cares. She obviously still feels enough for me that she would be willing to be vulnerable, share intimate feelings with me and cry.
Are these crumbs of things moving in the right direction? I sure do pray they are
Ok, now would be a good time to read Wonka's validation page. When she starts talking to about this stuff, validate.
Don't get to preachy about God etc. Validate her.
You're getting ready for your next girlfriend." I said "please don't make assumptions about how I feel or what I'm thinking."
Your answer was good. When she says things like this, you don't
have to reply. Just look at her and then look away. Just let her think you are getting ready for the next one. She needs to worry about the fact she's putting you out on the market again. Don't assure her she's the only one.
Hi Sandi! Thank you so much for your quick reply.
Definitely! This is where her insane jealousy and imagination work to my benefit. I'll let her think I'm "shopping" of course without actually shopping. I have a friend who wants me to meet a very attractive, and 10 years younger, friend of his. This would drive my WW absolutely crazy but I told him I'd have to hold off. I desire to reconcile my M, I don't want to create any additional obstacles or lead his friend on.
I actually caught WW rummaging through my car Tuesday night. I know she was looking for evidence of me cheating.
She then went into her old routine about how I ended our marriage when I was unfaithful...... I told her I didn't have to listen to her mouth anymore and I walked away.
Excellent!
Thank you
I returned a couple minutes later and told her "We can't change the past. We can effect today and the future with our choices. All of this is her choice.
Ut oh! Was this wrong?
I asked her to type up something that would protect me if I were to decide to move out.
Who did you ask?
The mediator
It also included each of us seeing IC's a minimum of 1x week. WW agreed to see her IC 2x month.
Doesn't mean she'll actually go. What happens if she doesn't?
It would be legally binding so I'm guessing she would be in contempt. But it doesn't matter I'm not going to agree to any of it other than the parenting plan. She needs to see the IC bc she believes she needs to not bc I want her to. My heart is in the right place but my motives and tactics are wrong.
I was trying to manipulate my WW to see her IC more frequently and elicit emotions from her.
Yep!
You are getting there. Keep learning and growing. You are going to be great!
[/quote]
Ok, now would be a good time to read Wonka's validation page. When she starts talking to about this stuff, validate.
Don't get to preachy about God etc. Validate her.
So am I validating the way she feels about me ending the marriage when I cheated? I have validated it in the past but I have heard this story 100+ times. I guess that's 100+ times I've had the opportunity to validate the way
she feels about it. Yesterday I stated
my feelings about it. I know she doesn't care about how I feel about it. At least at this time and space she doesn't.
Is it too late to validate the feelings she expressed this morning? If I were to send a text that said "thank you for sharing your feelings this morning. I know this last year has been really hard for you." am I pursuing?
Youre wife sounds just like mine. Everything you say about her , sounds like youre talking about my wife. She is the most prideful woman i have ever met. It's scary at times. I have always catered to her and she has always bullied me. Right now she left the marriage and took both of my daughters d8months d3yrs into a women shelter. Her pride is that big she is not scared to "start from 0 and build herself back up" just like she told me. Ive gotten closer to God as well and accepted Jesus Christ. I have dropped my L, i have given my M and WW to God. He will handle my situation , i am no longer worried or have any anxiety.
It's bait. She is checking to see how emotionally attached you are, and if she still has you in the palm of her hand. Once she's assured you would do anything to keep her......than she's immediately disinterested.
Clearly she has pain from your infidelity. Validate her feelings not her desire to end the marriage.
Read Wonka's validation page.
It's bait. She is checking to see how emotionally attached you are, and if she still has you in the palm of her hand. Once she's assured you would do anything to keep her......than she's immediately disinterested.
and of course you're right again. It is bait and I don't feel like I gave her any reassurance. I feel it's definitely making an impact. Do you think the examples I gave are crumbs of her moving in the right direction?
Clearly she has pain from your infidelity. Validate her feelings not her desire to end the marriage.
Read Wonka's validation page.
Is it too late to validate the feelings she expressed this morning? If I were to send a text that said "thank you for sharing your feelings this morning. I know this last year has been really hard for you." am I pursuing?
Youre wife sounds just like mine. Everything you say about her , sounds like youre talking about my wife. She is the most prideful woman i have ever met. It's scary at times. I have always catered to her and she has always bullied me. Right now she left the marriage and took both of my daughters d8months d3yrs into a women shelter. Her pride is that big she is not scared to "start from 0 and build herself back up" just like she told me. Ive gotten closer to God as well and accepted Jesus Christ. I have dropped my L, i have given my M and WW to God. He will handle my situation , i am no longer worried or have any anxiety.
This is great and I feel like I'm getting there. I have less anxiety but have times of pure panic. Everyday it's less
Sandi,
I wish I could put you on retainer and just call for quick help
This is rich! I'm angry!
My WW invited her parents to our house for the weekend. I'm going out of town Fri-Sun but she has them coming today (Thursday). She sent me a txt that says
"will you be out tonight?"
I txted "No. I'll be home"
She txted "Are you going to want to have D4 tonight or anything? This feels really awkward for my parents and I"
ugh....haven't responded yet. What do I say?
and what if she is afraid something will be said to her parents because maybe she hasn't told them that she filed for D?
It is bait and I don't feel like I gave her any reassurance. I feel it's definitely making an impact. Do you think the examples I gave are crumbs of her moving in the right direction?
Maybe I need to clarify. By bait, I mean she gives what you want to see as crumbs, only it is not crumbs at all. It is the WW's way of seeing if you are emotionally invested and to see if she still has an emotional hold over you. She will never admit it, and maybe she's so messed up she doesn't truly realize it, IDK. I just know that is how WW's will do LBH'S.
For example, it isn't that hard for a woman to turn on the tears. Why would a mother start bawling in front of her little girl? She wouldn't, if she wasn't a self-centered WW, b/c she would not want to upset her child. She would leave the room and go cry in private. I believe it was her attempt to get you to assure her that she is the only woman you will ever love and that you still want her to leave you, etc, etc.
Another example is when she brought up your A and threw it in your face. She was themp checking. She wanted you to assure her your feelings for her have not changed.
What did you think about her admitting to her A and then quickly adding she was but isn't now?
Each time you thought it could be a crumb, it was a test, IMO.
I was not telling you to go assure her. And, I am glad you didn't. I was saying what she wanted was to know she still held the relationship, and your feelings, in the palm of her hand. This is how a WW operates. It's just my opinion.
I am not saying you need to cause her to think you are in an A or dating, etc. I am saying that it would be a plus if she realized she is setting you free. You will be single and can date. The WW who is not concerned about a woman replacing her in H's life, is a W too far gone.
My advice would be not to send a message to her, in an after attempt to validate. It comes across as pursuing.
I believe there is a time for validation, and a time for that person to be left with their own thoughts and feelings. You were willing to make amends, and she is angry and don't want to clean up her mess. She just wants to look at your mess!
If your W had a revenge affair, that's really bad. I think it would take some serious guidance for both of you to get the MR back on track again. For both of you to have cheated, causes double trouble, double pain, double trust issues, etc. At the moment, you seem willing to forgive her and heal the relationship. For her, she is so full of anger, jealousy, mistrust, resentment, and hurt.......it would be very difficult for her to lay it to rest, at the moment. May be a long time before she is can. Besides, how long has it been since her own A? Has she gone through withdrawals? You see, it is such a mess that both of you may have to go in separate directions, get individual therapy and then couples therapy, before you can even think about piecing. But again, that's only an opinion.
It is possible. Very possible, in fact. I just don't see it falling into place easily or quickly. It is going to take a long road of very hard work for both of you. I think it will be harder for her than you, to work through all of this stuff. I think it may take time apart. That is not always a bad thing. Just saying, if you S, it doesn't mean it's the end.
Why would her parents feel awkward if they don't know?
and what if she is afraid something will be said to her parents because maybe she hasn't told them that she filed for D?
That's not your problem. It is time for her to put on her big girl panties! She has removed herself out from your protection, by filing for a D. So, let her clean up her own mess.
Well not sure if I backslide or not
at about 4:15 am WW entered room and slide in bed with me as the "little spoon" I didn't say anything, she was crying. It took a min or so to get my wits about me and I thought about asking her to leave but then I thought "what would Jesus do".....what about what the older lady prayer partner from my church said about "she will feel His love through you" and I've been praying she would feel His love through me. We laid there for about 5 min then she got up and left. Nothing was said
I'm leaving this morning for 3 days before anyone gets up. I'll not reach out to her.
Not sure if I messed up or not.
On another note the MiL doesn't know WW filed for D.
In a quiet moment when it was just MiL and I she said "I believe this year will get better. I don't believe WW has given up on your M." I said "She told me she told you everything that is going on but it doesn't sound like she has. If you think she hasn't given up then she's not telling you everything. I'm not going to say anymore bc she'll get mad at me but it definitely doesn't sound like she is telling you everything."
It is bait and I don't feel like I gave her any reassurance. I feel it's definitely making an impact. Do you think the examples I gave are crumbs of her moving in the right direction?
Sandi,
Once again, thank you so much for your incredible insight. I'll not get too excited about what I thought were crumbs of hope. I'll continue to be careful
Another example is when she brought up your A and threw it in your face. She was themp checking. She wanted you to assure her your feelings for her have not changed.
I'm happy I've continued to not reassure her.
What did you think about her admitting to her A and then quickly adding she was but isn't now?
I thought "that's the first time she's admitted it was an A. Maybe she's making progress. " She says that she has not had an A or cheated because our marriage ended last year when I was unfaithful.
I also believe she is still involved in an EA currently. I know she has spent the night with this OM about a month ago so it was a PA but I don't know that they have seen each other since. It really doesn't matter though. Whether it was a PA and now it's just an EA, it's still an A! I do not have any proof it's still going on but I don't have any that it stopped either.
I am not saying you need to cause her to think you are in an A or dating, etc. I am saying that it would be a plus if she realized she is setting you free. You will be single and can date. The WW who is not concerned about a woman replacing her in H's life, is a W too far gone.
This is good news. She is definitely concerned that I'm sleeping with or seeing someone else. That's why she's trying to check my phone, rummaging through my car and accusing me of sleeping with someone. Maybe it'll be enough to scare her straight.
My advice would be not to send a message to her, in an after attempt to validate. It comes across as pursuing.
I did not msg her.
I believe there is a time for validation, and a time for that person to be left with their own thoughts and feelings. You were willing to make amends, and she is angry and don't want to clean up her mess. She just wants to look at your mess!
She has never been one to clean up her mess. She does not and has not been a person who accepts personal responsibility for her mess or the things she does wrong. It's been very difficult being M to someone who rarely apologizes and never accepts personal responsibility.
If your W had a revenge affair, that's really bad. I think it would take some serious guidance for both of you to get the MR back on track again. For both of you to have cheated, causes double trouble, double pain, double trust issues, etc. At the moment, you seem willing to forgive her and heal the relationship. For her, she is so full of anger, jealousy, mistrust, resentment, and hurt.......it would be very difficult for her to lay it to rest, at the moment. May be a long time before she is can.
I don't know if it was a revenge A. Could be. There was 9 months between events.
Besides, how long has it been since her own A?
15 months ago. And would mine be considered an A? a single drunken night, everything above the belt, with an unknown woman.
Has she gone through withdrawals?
I'm not sure. What are the symptoms?
get individual therapy and then couples therapy, before you can even think about piecing.
I know there will have to be years of therapy and wouldn't even consider R with out it.
It is possible. Very possible, in fact. I just don't see it falling into place easily or quickly. It is going to take a long road of very hard work for both of you. I think it will be harder for her than you, to work through all of this stuff. I think it may take time apart. That is not always a bad thing. Just saying, if you S, it doesn't mean it's the end.
Nothing good ever comes easy
So what does everyone think? Should I have kicked her out of bed?
I'm definitely not going to bring it up or reach out to her. I'll be away from home until Sunday night
You said nothing was said. Anything else happen. A little kissing, hugging?
What would Jesus do? Well, what did He tell the adulterous woman at the well?
I understand what the elderly lady at church meant, but this is a WW! Jesus was never manipulated by anyone. If you can do what He did and not be manipulated, great. A WW will try everything to temp check you, including sex! Now, you can ask yourself WWJD all day long, and I guarantee you will find an answer to fit how you want to fit.
B/c you are too emotional, needy, and human.
No, I am not saying you should have kicked her out! If you did nothing, then I think you handled it right. I think she'll do it again, so don't be caught off guard. If she starts kissing, you may need to ask her what she calls herself doing (or something similar). You will want to have sex, of course, but I think it would be a mistake. Don't be mean or "kick her out" by trying to see how rude or cold you can be to her. You don't have to be hateful. But I think she should see that you are not easily manipulated by her emotional swings. What would she think, say, or do if you went to her bed and spooned with her......? Somehow, women seem to think it is unacceptable for the man.....but it's okay if she decides to do the same thing. That's b/c she calls the shots when it comes to sex, and she will use sex, if needed.
You see, nothing would suit a WW better than to be able to give the H a little spooning in bed, and that would be all he required to get back into the MR. It is going to take a heck of a lot more than a little affection to fix this problem. She needs to know that you aren't that easy. Sure, she'll be mad, if you tell her. You can decide if you want one night of sex and rejection afterwards, or stay strong and her do the work to get the healing?
You said nothing was said. Anything else happen. A little kissing, hugging?
Nothing more. No Kissing. She was the little spoon so her head was on my arm and my other arm around her.
No, I am not saying you should have kicked her out! If you did nothing, then I think you handled it right. I think she'll do it again, so don't be caught off guard. If she starts kissing, you may need to ask her what she calls herself doing (or something similar). You will want to have sex, of course, but I think it would be a mistake. Don't be mean or "kick her out" by trying to see how rude or cold you can be to her. You don't have to be hateful. But I think she should see that you are not easily manipulated by her emotional swings.
I'm glad I didn't kick her out, be mean or rude. It has also given me the opportunity to act nonchalant about it. I haven't reached out to her, will not reach out and I will not bring it up. .
What would she think, say, or do if you went to her bed and spooned with her......? Somehow, women seem to think it is unacceptable for the man.....
she'd be ticked off and it would ruin all the progress I'm making
but it's okay if she decides to do the same thing. That's b/c she calls the shots when it comes to sex, and she will use sex, if needed.
I will not be abused or manipulated by her anymore
You see, nothing would suit a WW better than to be able to give the H a little spooning in bed, and that would be all he required to get back into the MR. It is going to take a heck of a lot more than a little affection to fix this problem. She needs to know that you aren't that easy. Sure, she'll be mad, if you tell her. You can decide if you want one night of sex and rejection afterwards, or stay strong and her do the work to get the healing?
I've long ago decided sex was out of the question. I do not want a one night stand with my wife and she's going to get tested before we're intimate again
I want and need her to do the work to get the healing. I am here and ready to play ball but I'm more playing poker. She will not see my cards until all the chips are on the table and know for certain she is all in. And we're actively involved in professional help
Thanks again Sandi
[/quote]
Today
I've been gone since Friday morning until this afternoon. It felt great to get away for a couple days.
WW asked when I would be back. I told her I should be home by noon. She asked if I would be sure to be back by 1:30 because she had plans to go watch football.
I met her at our S14's baseball game at 1:20 hoping to catch some baseball but his game was ending. As I approached I went right to D4 and gave her a big hug. WW and I said almost nothing to each other. Only that the baseball game was ending. She was gathering her stuff and asked me to fold up her chair. I hesitated and she said "never mind I've got it." I think she's caught the hint that I'm not going to do things for her anymore. It does feel weird to watch her struggle but I know it's for her own good. I pray she comes around before the D finalizes.
Question- Should I finish DB book before hiring a coach? I'm about half way through the book
Always finish reading the book first.
Will do
Thoughts
WW stepped in my office this morning. I cheerfully said "Good Morning." She did not make eye contact and She said she had made D4's lunch but asked if I would put together snacks. I told her I had already intended to do so. She left.
I'm probably grasping at straws and we've had very little contact over the last 2 days but in both instances I made sure to be cheerful, she didn't make eye contact and seems down. Hopefully, she's second guessing her WW ways and the D.
Only time will tell
The books are great and helpful to many people. However, it is not necessary to read any books prior to speaking with a DB Coach.
It's always best to speak with a DB Coach as soon as you possibly can. You want to stop any negative momentum and get things headed in a more positive direction as quickly as possible.
Gnicks
Reading your sitch... Yeah you are hanging on every move or non-move your WW does .... In your actions you may not think you are pursuing but you have such a death grip on the rope I would imagine she knows you are still right there where she wants you
You need to detach, GAL... Read the book.. These guidelines are here for a reason
Yeah....I definitely have her under a microscope. I find myself looking for signs that the actions I'm taking are making a difference. I want to make sure if I'm not seeing results that I don't waste time before moving to a different strategy. But in the end I know these actions are for myself. Trying to detach and I believe I'm making progress. I'm definitely not giving her anything. I'm about half way through the book and have been GAL-ing at least twice a week without letting her know what I'm doing. I've also been hitting the gym 4-5x week. I started 180's at least 2 months ago.
My ultimate goal is R but I'm trying to make sure to recognize small victories/steps along the way to keep from becoming discouraged. I have hope but also realize it's her choice. These small steps give me hope.
Gnicks
[quote=CaliGuyIn your actions you may not think you are pursuing but you have such a death grip on the rope I would imagine she knows you are still right there where she wants you
Do you think she knows I'm still attached? I feel I've been pretty successful at GALing, setting boundaries, 180's, not reassuring her, etc....
I do feel like I'm constantly looking for progress with out talking to her
I'm probably grasping at straws and we've had very little contact over the last 2 days but in both instances I made sure to be cheerful, she didn't make eye contact and seems down. Hopefully, she's second guessing her WW ways and the D.
You are definitely grasping. Unless you're a mind reader, you have no idea what WW is thinking, and if you try and guess, you're going to be wrong most of the time. Not making eye contact could be for any of a hundred reasons, Maybe she's feeling guilty or remorseful, but just as likely she's thinking about everything she has to do after she leaves, thinking about OM, maybe thinking you disgust her. There's no telling and it's a pointless exercise to waste any time on it.
Acting calm and happy is the right approach, but women also seem to have a 6th sense to detect how you truly feel about something, especially your WW, who knows you better than anyone. I'm sure she is picking up on vibes that you are not truly detached but hanging on her every word and action, and it's giving her ego kibbles, which you do not want to be dispensing at this point.
I know how hard it is, but you need to try and truly detach from WW, and not spend time thinking about her, not letting her actions or thoughts have any impact on your emotions. Best way to do this is GAL activities, spending time with friends and family, doing things you enjoy. There is a life w/o WW and when you embrace that, you will start to feel a sense of relief and freedom and quit worrying about what WW does or does not think about how you are doing. At that point, she will sense it and that will cause her to start evaluating what she wants and what she is willing to lose.
I met her at our S14's baseball game at 1:20 hoping to catch some baseball but his game was ending. As I approached I went right to D4 and gave her a big hug. WW and I said almost nothing to each other. Only that the baseball game was ending. She was gathering her stuff and asked me to fold up her chair. I hesitated and she said "never mind I've got it." I think she's caught the hint that I'm not going to do things for her anymore. It does feel weird to watch her struggle but I know it's for her own good. I pray she comes around before the D finalizes.
WW stepped in my office this morning. I cheerfully said "Good Morning." She did not make eye contact and She said she had made D4's lunch but asked if I would put together snacks. I told her I had already intended to do so. She left.
Just for clarification, you didn't greet your W at the game, but you cheerfully said, "Good Morning" in the office?
I met her at our S14's baseball game at 1:20 hoping to catch some baseball but his game was ending. As I approached I went right to D4 and gave her a big hug. WW and I said almost nothing to each other. Only that the baseball game was ending. She was gathering her stuff and asked me to fold up her chair. I hesitated and she said "never mind I've got it." I think she's caught the hint that I'm not going to do things for her anymore. It does feel weird to watch her struggle but I know it's for her own good. I pray she comes around before the D finalizes.
WW stepped in my office this morning. I cheerfully said "Good Morning." She did not make eye contact and She said she had made D4's lunch but asked if I would put together snacks. I told her I had already intended to do so. She left.
Just for clarification, you didn't greet your W at the game, but you cheerfully said, "Good Morning" in the office?
Yes, I cheerfully greeted D4 at the game but not her. And yes, when she walked in the office. I cheerfully said good morning. Mistake?
I'm probably grasping at straws and we've had very little contact over the last 2 days but in both instances I made sure to be cheerful, she didn't make eye contact and seems down. Hopefully, she's second guessing her WW ways and the D.
You are definitely grasping. Unless you're a mind reader, you have no idea what WW is thinking, and if you try and guess, you're going to be wrong most of the time. Not making eye contact could be for any of a hundred reasons, Maybe she's feeling guilty or remorseful, but just as likely she's thinking about everything she has to do after she leaves, thinking about OM, maybe thinking you disgust her. There's no telling and it's a pointless exercise to waste any time on it.
Acting calm and happy is the right approach, but women also seem to have a 6th sense to detect how you truly feel about something, especially your WW, who knows you better than anyone. I'm sure she is picking up on vibes that you are not truly detached but hanging on her every word and action, and it's giving her ego kibbles, which you do not want to be dispensing at this point.
I know how hard it is, but you need to try and truly detach from WW, and not spend time thinking about her, not letting her actions or thoughts have any impact on your emotions. Best way to do this is GAL activities, spending time with friends and family, doing things you enjoy. There is a life w/o WW and when you embrace that, you will start to feel a sense of relief and freedom and quit worrying about what WW does or does not think about how you are doing. At that point, she will sense it and that will cause her to start evaluating what she wants and what she is willing to lose.
I definitely want to cause her to sense I'm gone w/out completely closing the door on R. I'm doing GALing at least twice a week. I'm going to the gym 4-5 nights a week right after work. I'm not initiating conversations most of the time. I had to tonight. Part of mediation agreement gave me the option to move out and she had to go to IC at least 2x month. I had til the 20th to make a decision about moving out. I told her tonight the IC was manipulative of me and I don't care if she goes to IC or not. It's not helpful if she doesn't want to go. I also told her I would not be moving out. She then began name calling. I walked away. I got my headphones. I went back and told her " I do not speak you this way and I will not be spoken to like this." She said "you're a whore and that's why we're getting a divorce." I said "you're a whore" and put my headphones back in. She continued name calling but I couldn't really hear her. Wish I wouldn't have said that. Oh well. Was thinking I should apologize but then decided that would be pursuing. She can stew on the fact that I'm taking anymore of her BS and not apologizing right away. Going to probably need the headphones some more tonight
Not taking anymore of her BS......definitely needed the headphone some more. She was in the shower in the MBR which is where I sleep now. I knocked and opened the door saying "I'm stepping in for a second" She said "you knocked but I didn't say you could come in". I said " if you don't like it shower somewhere else." She began saying something but I left.
When she was done in the shower she stepped out of the bathroom and motioned for me to remove my headphones. I pulled one out and asked if she was going to speak to respectfully. She mockingly repeated what I said so I put the headphones back in and turned toward the TV so I couldn't even see her. She continued talking but i couldn't hear her. She left. She came back again to say more to me but I had my headphones in and didn't even look at her.
Feels like I'm making things worse but every time I've demanded she respects me there's been a good outcome over the next couple days. We'll see what happens this time.
Yes, I cheerfully greeted D4 at the game but not her. And yes, when she walked in the office. I cheerfully said good morning. Mistake?
Just didn't understand the inconsistency.
I definitely want to cause her to sense I'm gone w/out completely closing the door on R. I'm doing GALing at least twice a week. I'm going to the gym 4-5 nights a week right after work. I'm not initiating conversations most of the time. I had to tonight. Part of mediation agreement gave me the option to move out and she had to go to IC at least 2x month. I had til the 20th to make a decision about moving out. I told her tonight the IC was manipulative of me and I don't care if she goes to IC or not. It's not helpful if she doesn't want to go. I also told her I would not be moving out. She then began name calling. I walked away. I got my headphones
Great job!
I do not speak you this way and I will not be spoken to like this
Okay, good. But what is your plan if she
does speak to you disrespectfully?
She said "you're a whore and that's why we're getting a divorce." I said "you're a whore"
Not good. You just proved you are lying. You just told her you do not speak to her that way.........then you turned around and did it. You just told her you would not be spoken to that way, and she challenged you by doing exactly
that.
The headphones were working fine until you challenged her. Calling each other names is about as childish as it gets. Putting the headphones back on after that, could be symbolic to sticking your fingers in your ears and poking out your tongue, making a face at her. If it wasn't so sad, it would be comical.
Okay, good. But what is your plan if she does speak to you disrespectfully?
My plan is to put in my headphones and walk away. If she does it in txt msg I will not respond.
Not good. You just proved you are lying. You just told her you do not speak to her that way.........then you turned around and did it. You just told her you would not be spoken to that way, and she challenged you by doing exactly that.
Yeah.....I knew I blew it here. I'm usually pretty good at controlling my tongue but that one slipped out. I will be more disciplined.
The headphones were working fine until you challenged her. Calling each other names is about as childish as it gets. Putting the headphones back on after that, could be symbolic to sticking your fingers in your ears and poking out your tongue, making a face at her. If it wasn't so sad, it would be comical.
Yes, I agree. Name calling is a go to for her throughout our M and I've been pretty good at controlling myself. At least I only said it once and nothing more. She continued with the name calling throughout the night but I just pretended I couldn't hear anything she was saying bc of my headphones.
Do you think the headphones are a good strategy? She started again this morning and I put them in again. I was about to leave, had my headphones on, the music hadn't started yet. I could still hear her but I pretended I couldn't. She was trying to tell me the parenting plan begins today, that I don't get to go to the gym every night and since I was gone last weekend that I would be responsible for D4 this weekend. I know the parenting plan doesn't start until I sign the documents and the court orders it. So I will not let her push me around. I plan to go to the gym after work tonight and continue to go to the gym every night.
Do I send her a text that says "I've tried to make it clear. I will not be spoken to disrespectfully any longer." ?
Had another thought. I don't think I should send her a text. My actions represent that I will not be disrespected. I told her last night during our spat. Sending her a text tells her I'm thinking about her and not detaching.
Please start a new thread. You have 103 replies/postings.
Sandi,
Sorry I know I have lots of questions. I believe I read in one of your posts that you really felt a loss when you realized your H was not going to be your friend after the D. How did you realize he wasn't going to be your friend? what did he do?