Continued from last thread. I don't know how to link.
Confused. Hating H right now but also I think he just displayed some strength in a positive way.
Maybe I should not put too much thought into it and go drink a bottle of wine behind the tennis courts in my neighborhood, like I have recently started as a GAL activity.
OK I just texted H. You know, because I am a chronic pursuer. I texted him "You showed strength and leadership by explaining yourself clearly and not allowing our disagreement to get too crazy. Thank you, I appreciate that and I respect you for it."
Then I added "please love me again." No, didn't add that part, I am not that much of a pursuer!
I am heading out to the church event, going to get dressed up really nice and either make some new friends or just have a pleasant evening with the group.
The church event was ok. Kind of boring but I met some nice people. I am wiped out emotionally from today, and physically from too much GAL. I need to spend some quiet time at home. Today I had a singing lesson, lunch with friends, and then church event. GAL has become my full time job, I need to slow it down. I feel desperate if I don't get out though, because then it hits me that I am not loved.
I don't know what to think. I am too reactive. As hard as I work on it, I am reactive. Less than I was, way less than I was.
The silent treatment is killing me. He speaks so little to me, so infrequently. Is this his deep hurt or is this passive aggressive? I don't know. I am just so lonely.
Oh, and H never responded to my text. When I came home from church he was sound asleep in S11's bed.
The silent treatment is so hard on me. I have 3-5 sentences of dialog between us each day. I hate it. It feels so cruel.
I think that my wife is not doing it on purpose. I think that my wife is so deeply stuck in her own head she is not aware of the pain shes causing, or she feels so strongly against the marriage she just has nothing to say. I don't think she does it to cause me pain.
I don't think your husband is intentional trying to punish you by giving you the silent treatment. Could he be that cruel?
Thanks Mutatio, I don't know, maybe its not intentional but it is cruel anyway. It sounds like we are getting the same amount of communication.
When I try to talk to him, what replays in my mind is the comments he made during the first 3 months after BD, all the spew, "you have to be a completely different person for me to love you again", "I hate you", "you are socially retarded", that type of thing. So I feel the silence as hostility, because the silence started once I told him I wouldn't take the verbal abuse any more.
I am burned out. Part of me wants to ask him to leave. Part of me feels like we are at a turning point.
To both of you, PK + Mutatio, remember this:
Their actions are not about you. Their actions are about THEM.
Azzork, I know that, I really do, and 90% of the time I tell myself that and I hold up well. 95% of the time. And then maybe once every week or two I just get so sad and so angry and I react. I need to remind myself to come here and post before reacting.
Also my D14 has terrible school attendance, is home today with cramps, and my S11 is freaking out with stress attacks multiple times a day and I am literally wiped out emotionally. I need help with these kids. I really need help.
Photoka
Breath ..slow things down breath you can do this
One thing at a time
You are a great mum I have read your posts and I almost feel I know you
What is worrying you right now ?
Photoka, I am right there with you sister. I realize it is about them Azzork but I get so sad and dispondent.
In this chapter of my marriage I will remember the isolation and silence.
Azzork, I know that, I really do, and 90% of the time I tell myself that and I hold up well. 95% of the time. And then maybe once every week or two I just get so sad and so angry and I react.
It happens. Theres no perfection here. Next time, you might go 16 days. Or your reaction will be less severe. And look, last night, you reflected on your feelings and his actions, and changed your thought process. Can you do that beforehand next time?
In this chapter of my marriage I will remember the isolation and silence.
You choose to remember what you want.
I will look back at this chapter of my life and I will remember my own personal growth.
I am better because of this time.
My LIFE will be better because of this time.
Photoka, I am right there with you sister. I realize it is about them Azzork but I get so sad and dispondent.
In this chapter of my marriage I will remember the isolation and silence.
And what do you think you can do to make this time less silent and isolating? Hint: it isn't anything you do to manipulate your W into breaking this spell.
I am pushing my H today into communicating. Maybe not good DB'ing but it is working. He texted me this morning that he left his lunch on the counter. So I texted back that I'd put it away. No response as usual. So an hour later I texted back "???" H responded with "it's not there?" Me: "It was there, I put it away for you. I don't know if you are receiving my texts because there was no response." H, "Thank you for putting it in the fridge." Me "You are welcome. Also, did you receive my text from last night? " H "Yes, I didn't know how to respond." Me "It was a heartfelt statement on my part. Texting is hard for me because without responses I do not know if the text was received and it leaves a lot unsaid." H " thank you for the text."
I feel like I need the basic courtesy of "thank you" and some form of confirmation that the message was at least received.
Also I have a great lead on a job and meeting with someone next week to discuss.
So I texted H "When I start working I will need more support with the kids. Is it possible you could work from home 1-2 days per week to be available for dr. apps and kids absences" (My D14 has attendance issues- last year we had to pull her out completely and do homebound, hoping this year will be better but if I am working this is going to be a HUGE distraction for me and she is still a child, can't exactly let her slip through the cracks because I went back to work.) H responded "I can work from home 1 day a week."
I am thinking I might have to hire someone to come in 2-3 afternoons or mornings per week, to clean my house, get kids off to school or pick them up, just someone who can "take the edge off" my home responsibilities so I am not juggling too much when I go back to work. I would be working from home, but that doesn't mean I will be free. My kids are old enough to manage a lot themselves, but they need someone here. So if H was home one day per week, and I hired someone for maybe 8-10 hours per week, I think I can swing it.
I just want to reiterate that I am so alone in my parenting responsibilities. H is so hands off. And my kids are a mess- they need so much extra attention, and I can't mess that up. D has 4 appointments per month (I schedule a double appointment 2x per month that ends up taking most of the day) and S11 goes to counseling weekly, but that I can usually do in the evenings. S9 is fine, the perfect wonder child, but I recently decided that I can't rely on that and I am making an effort to give him special one on one attention because he deserves it and I want to head off future problems with him.
Mutatio, I will remember it too. I will also remember it as a time of great personal growth, but the silence is deafening.
It is especially hard on my D. She sees it and she keeps saying "Dad is a jerk. Something is wrong with Dad, he has no human emotions."
Photoka, Azzork, Asitis, I am sorry I wasn't clear. I will remember my personal growth, overcoming this adversity with dignity, being the best Dad I could. I will also remember the side effects of my wife's struggled with her problems.
When a marriage struggles, the problems that develop depend on the people in the marriage. There are many types of abuse that people inflict on each other, directly, indirectly, many places on the spectrum. For me it was silence and isolation.
It is not the only thing I will remember. Sorry for the hijack.
The heartbreak of the kids is hardest for me to "let go" of. You poor children have had a really hard time of it, and I feel so badly for them. I wish I were closer...would love to lend a hand. Teens are going through so much on a good day.
Proud of you, Photo...I think you're really doing the best you can in an extremely trying situation. If you can do it, so can I!
What I like about your texts is that they are focused on you and your feelings and needs. You arent trying to control him, just telling what you want. I think you did OK.
Thank you Azzork. I am trying to take control of MY life, and as he is a part of it and the father of my children, then I can't just let it all go. I need responses, and I need help with these kids.
I am having a rough time since last night. And ironically, the incident that lead up to this was actually very benign compared to others that I have handled better. I think I am just truly burned out.
Thank you Judy, I wish you were here too! But you are helping with all of your compassionate and kind words on here.
It [censored] that we are all going through this, but it truly helps to know that I am not the only one.
Mutatio, no apology necessary, and you weren't hijacking, you were part of the conversation. Your posts help me, more than you know. Or maybe you do. It helps so much just to share thoughts with people in the same situation, the good thoughts and the bad. It all helps. I am 90% sure I'd have filed for D by now if it wasn't for this forum. And I'd be crying every day.
Does anyone think I have an actual shot at saving my marriage or am I kidding myself?
My sister says that H still loves me but he is so depressed and self-involved right now to feel anything.
Sweetheart, you are doing something much more important, you are saving you.
Like in an aeroplane going down, you apply your own oxygen mask first, put on your own life vest.
WH may not even know he needs the oxygen mask.
V
Does anyone think I have an actual shot at saving my marriage or am I kidding myself?
Yes you have a shot. It is just not something that is in your control. As V said, a big part of what you are doing is for you. Another part is to try to make the R that will continue after a D be as healthy as it can for your & the kids' sakes. If your H changes his mind, and is willing to do the hard work he will need to do to show that he can be a trusted partner, then great.
You've read enough of the people who thought it was hopeless and got surprised to know that you can't write it off. That said, the odds are long. Can you accommodate yourself to that reality, maintain good DBing for the first two reasons, but move ahead with your life with zero expectations about your M? You still go through some rough days, but life is a lot better when you can move forward. You're doing some of this, but are still in a holding pattern overall, waiting for a sign of change in H. You can't control him. The only change you control is you. So, get out of your holding pattern and move ahead (notice I'm saying ahead and not on).
It may be the best thing for your M chances, and it will make you a more interesting, attractive, and happy person. Win-win.
And know that I still get caught up in that puzzle, even though I know better. Don't see you throwing in the towel any time soon, frankly, so what does it matter if the odds are 1% or 50%? Just drop the question and do what you need to do regardless.
Thanks V. My D14 is home today, she has cramps. She has alternated between screaming at me because I am gross, and sobbing because of her cramps. She is in her room now. I let her go on too long and now I am a wreck.
I am in so much emotional pain.
I think I will go to bed at 8 pm tonight. I am going to curl up on the sofa now with a cup of tea and my laptop and tv on watching whatever I want. I will make sure that I spend some good time with my boys when they get home- give them some undivided attention, then make a nice dinner for the family. And then take an anxiety pill and go to sleep as early as possible.
Next weekend is our 17 year anniversary. I am going to need you all to get through that one. Praying for a miracle.
A miracle would be an "I love you." That is what I want more than anything in the world. Pre-BD he pretty much stopped saying it regularly, I haven't heard those words in so long.
I have a school event with my D in the morning, followed by a shopping trip with a friend, then church. Sunday is skate park day with my boys, followed by a talk by one of my favorite authors. Busy GAL weekend. Next week is following up about this job lead, a new dinner group I just joined, and my usual walking 3 miles daily and maybe a big house clean up. Next week is much less hectic than this one, probably a more realistic pace for GAL activities, I am just so tired now.
Also, and this is pathetic, but H is still in our bed. However he usually falls asleep with one of the boys, or on the floor, or on the couch, wherever. Then he stumbles in sometime in the middle of the night. And he leaves at 4:30 am. But the times he is sleeping in our bed, just having him next to me gives me such emotional comfort. And the nights that he does fall asleep with me are the best- I sleep so well and my anxiety disappears. And he's not doing anything, just sleeping. How can I ask him to fall asleep in our bed without sounding pushy? Or do I just need to let it go?
You are absolutely right As, but I can't seem to let go of expectations. I try, and days can go by where I do let go, but I can't seem to do it in the long run. Probably because I married him, and those vows I made in earnest. I know, we all did.
I will try to let go of expectations for today. And tomorrow I will do it for that day.
And as soon as I hit "submit" he called me from work, an actual phone call, not a text, and for no reason other than to say hello and make small talk. I cannot remember the last time that happened.
I don't know if its my change of attitude, giving him a compliment, asking for better communication, or maybe the prospect of me getting a job ???? Or a combination. Or maybe he was bored and forgot that he hates me. Who knows? Time will tell if this is a fluke or an actual change.
And maybe it is ok for me to have some bad days. Maybe I need that, my emotions are real and maybe I need a day every now and then to give in to them, maybe its part of the healing process and not a weakness.
This is a journey not a destination.
Enjoy the scenery, watch the rain, it makes the flowers grow.
V
Thanks V, but the weeds are taking over!
Daisies are fantastic flowers, buttercups rock. They attract butterflies.
V
V you are so positive. You are really a good friend.
Another thought I have been having.
I think the way I've been practicing DB is not going to work for me. I am too passive, too afraid, too reactive. I am so scared of "messing up with DB" or scaring H away.
I need to have a little more confidence in myself, a little more backbone. Its not like I am planning on asking him to renew our vows (lol) or declare his love, but I can greet him more warmly when he comes in without feeling like I am pursuing. I can ask for more communication, because I am a human being, without feeling like I am pursuing. The trick for me is, as always, doing it without the emotion. If I can ask for something small without emotion, maybe that will give me the confidence to handle the next thing without emotion. I think I had a good start today with the texting and asking for better communication.
DB flexes with use. Do that which works, if it doesn't work, do a 180 or an adjustment.
The only thing I would say is stick to a strategy for long enough to know.
If lacking confidence is a limiting factor, do a 180, go get confidence learn and grow.
Incidentally it's called reframing, and it's a great confidence trick!
Remember the objective is you, change for you, otherwise the changes change back. If you R that's great.
V
Of course you can demand communication in your roles as co-parent, but I wouldn't expect or demand more than that. That's acting like a W, and he doesn't want that right now.
On the passive, my observation is not that you are passive, but you are still focusing so much of your attention on him. That drains you of your vitality. The job is positive, but you need more activities and networks away from him and the M. Maybe start planning what you want for your life post D. Not that it will happen, but accepting that it is likely and there is no trick you can apply on top of the work you've done is going to help. The focus on how you might redecorate (or move), what you want to do with the extra space, what kind of social life you'd like as a single woman with a chance to stretch and grow socially, what activities or groups interest you? For instance, I'm putting together new dishes, silverware, microwave, cooking implements, stocking the bar over at the apartment. I don't want to sit around any longer waiting for the D before my life gets started. It helps you to realize that there is life after a D, and even if you'd still work hard on the M, you aren't putting your life on hold.
That is good DBing. So stop focusing on how you are interacting with H. Sure, draw boundaries and demand respect, etc. But the cheese is down the tunnel of moving yourself along to a happy life w/ or wo/ him. Which Photoka would be more attractive to him, the one who is focused on your M, or the one who is building a fulfilling life beyond the M? Which P would be happier, the one expending so much energy on your H who gives nothing back or the one exploring what would make her fulfilled w/ her life in the reality that she is alone now & may be for a while?
Thanks, As, I already chose a new town to move to if we D. It is about half an hour away so not too far, but cost of living is less and if I get this job I can work from home so that works. I would wait a year to let kids finish out the school year. And it is a cute little town, very historical and "small town" feeling. I have a plan. I also have gotten very involved in a new church and H is an agnostic so he has nothing to do with it. Met some nice people last night, including a very nice divorced man who I hit it off well (very innocent conversation!) I might add.
But you are right, most of my energy is directed at him. I know it. But each month that passes more of it is directed at my GAL. I am not yet where I need to be energy-wise. I know that. In my mind though I can't stop thinking that we are going to work this out and be a couple again. I really believe that. With a few instances per week where I think I am kidding myself, and a few instances per week where I think I don't even want that anymore. I guess I am confused.
We all are, as we just don't know. Even a DB coach can't tell you what will happen with your sitch, and they've seen a lot. They'll just tell you ones that seemed to be less hopeful than yours turned around. The way I look at it is just not to think of DBing as trying to save the M any more. I'm doing it because it will help make the R I have w/ my W as healthy as I can post D for all our sakes, and I focus on my life right now and in the possible future wo/ her. The reality is that she isn't a partner right now, doesn't want to be, and until she says and act differently, I'm better off assuming that M is likely done.
It takes some adjustment to just accept that strong possibility and really detach to that next level. We all think we're detached until we discover what the next level feels like, and then we see all the ways we were still trying to tie our Ss & us together. It is a better emotional space and better for the possibilities of DBing.
I'm really glad to hear about your GAL activities. At a certain point, my social circle just started to take off. It took a while, but it comes. You get caught up in your life and H just watches you sail off. Maybe they set off in pursuit after a while of letting that reality set in, maybe they don't. You'll be glad you took this course though.
Thank you As. You are going to be a great therapist. You already are. I feel like my social activities are taking off a little too much, I need to reel them in because I am exhausted and my kids are still pretty needy. I am hoping this job will be the turning point for me. To make my own money, get a new circle of people in my life, feel important. I will definitely be "moving forward" at that time, just due to the reality of having to keep up with work. I have always been the type of person who takes my job very seriously, which is why I left my job to have kids- I throw myself into whatever I do completely. I will have to learn to balance employment with mothering and that will not leave a lot of time left to obsess about H. I don't even have this job yet and I am wondering if I should use my maiden name when I start working and if I should have a separate bank account.
I guess I should get the job first.
Hi photo. I'm just checking in. Hope your doing ok. Hugs friend.
Actually, when I've got my therapist hat on, I give much less advice - it undermines the therapeutic relationship when you are actually sitting in room in front of a client. The client does better if you listen, reflect, and given an occasional nudge. They generally better find their path that way. Not really possible on the internet, and no one worries about the empathetic connection between counselor and client when they don't expect the non-verbal signals of empathy. But thank you, and I'm glad my thoughts help.
Definitely separate bank account, in fact you could have one now.
Why wait.
Oh and cards close to your chest.
V
Good Morning Photoka. I have been reading your thread from the beginning and have witnessed your evolution. One of the reasons I am drawn to your thread is your gender. I am not sexist and believe women are equal to men in all ways except plumbing.
In the human condition there are subtleties unique to the female perspective. I was drawn to this hoping to learn from your experience how to better understand my wife's point of view.
I have realized is the only thing similar between you and my wife is that you both sit down to urinate. So with that effort by me an epic fail, I would like to say that I have seen quite an evolution in your consciousness. My gut tells me you are a strong woman who will survive with or without your husband.
I have to admit I am a little jealous of your husband. I wish my wife would care enough to talk to me, try to save the marriage and try to strengthen the bond between us. It seems wishes are for children.
The point of all this was to say that I think your doing the "right" thing, doing the correct thing. What ever happens, your will land on your feet a better person, please believe this.
Pho, I so wish that my wife would be willing to work on us. She has even told me that she knows that we are not beyond repair. She says that she doesn't want me to hurt her again. She has told me that it's not my fault that she is unhappy. She says, she says she says... and does nothing to work on us.
I am so jealous, like mutatio, that you are trying so hard.
Keep it up, you are growing. This is a marathon, and we ALL need to remember that some days
Mutatio and Dday, your words mean so much to me. Although my confidence is building and I know on an intellectual level that I will be ok no matter what my H does, as a woman my heart needed that boost today. Your words were more loving and kind and heartfelt than anything I have heard from my H in years. Thank you.
And, I am jealous of your W's, too, I do not know what it is like to have an H who is willing to stand by my side through thick and thin and put his pride and ego aside to work with me. I know it isn't "fair" to compare our spouses to our DB friends, because we all have different circumstances, and in real life we'd probably all get on each other's nerves in the same way we do with our spouse's, but there is a true sense of kindness and compassion on this forum that I do not get at home. The men on this forum have given me a stronger sense of what I have been lacking in my M and what I want moving forward.
While true, I wouldn't have nearly the same outlook or thought process without going through this. Going through this has fundamentally changed who I am. For that, I am grateful.
Azz, you are right. I know that I will be able to appreciate that someday too. What doesn't kill us makes us stronger, right?
Pho, you sound like a great person, in a tough sitch. Keep your head up. Coal turns to diamonds after time and pressure. We will all be much stronger when this is past, as long as we can use our heads and have a little grace. Our DB friends can sure help that along too!
Azzork, you are 100% right but I am not grateful to my H for making me a better person. He tried his darnedest to drag me down, all of the improvements are my own doing. And he had better catch up with me at some point or I am running away with one of you guys.
Azzork, you are 100% right but I am not grateful to my H for making me a better person. He tried his darnedest to drag me down, all of the improvements are my own doing. And he had better catch up with me at some point or I am running away with one of you guys.
Hell no. My W didn't do [censored]. I did this.
But I'm grateful for the opportunity. The gift of time.
Thanks Overcome, I just saw your post. Having a good day. Hope you are ok.
I think there is a shift happening in H's attitude. Probably too soon to say. We are spending very little time together so it's hard to say. I am still exhausted from extensive GAL'ing. Was planning an early night on Friday and instead went out with the girls. Out last night too, and heading out now to hear one of my favorite author's speak. Just waiting on H to come home and take over kid duty.
H seems a little more "aware" of his surroundings, if that explains it. Also off the antidepressants now for 3+ weeks, I am convinced they were making him worse. He is still depressed but "nicer" if that makes sense.
I had a great morning out with a new friend who opened up and told me her DB story. She and her H almost got D 8 years ago, and she told me how she turned it around. She was the one who was unhappy with her H, not the other way around, but he was unwilling to work on things. She did a lot of GAL'ing and she said after 6-7 months he realized he could lose her, that she wasn't going to be just sitting around waiting on him, and then he joined her in making changes. It was comforting to hear her story. Different than our stories, because he wasn't a WH or a WAH, but he was checked out and not participating in the M or child raising until she GAL. She said her attitude changed for real, at first she was "faking it" and then it became real and then he followed her.
It is good to hear a success story.
Thanks for sharing! It is good to hear a success story...and it also should be noted that even in that story, it took TIME.
I'm not giving up, I'm just letting go.
Judy, you are so new to this and have come so far in such a short time. I wish I had found DB earlier, I was already 4 months in before I stumbled across this forum.
It was good to hear a success story. I think there are a lot of them out there. You hear about divorces, because they are obvious. But you don't hear about the reconciliations so much because people keep their problems private unless they divorce. I bet there are a lot of people out there who appear happy but are struggling and on this same journey as we are. This is the 3rd person in real life who told me their success story since I have been going through this. And 2 of them shocked me- I thought they were happy solid couples, would never have guessed they had been through this. The 3rd was my aunt and uncle and I only knew because it was family.
One woman told me it took 2 years before things were "normal" again, one told me one year, and the other said she doesn't know the exact timeframe, but its been 8 years and things are good now but it happened slowly over time. All 3 said things are better than they were before, but they left scars and it was a time of "growing up". I am falling asleep tonight with hope.
Nothing new today. I was feeling a subtle change in attitude from H, but only saw him for about 10-15 minutes yesterday and that was spent dealing with a very mouthy bad attitude D14. Then I went outside with my boys to watch the eclipse, H joined us for about 3 minutes, then went back inside to work. My S11 was disappointed but what can I do? If I try to help him connect with the kids he misreads my intentions. So I stay quiet and do my best to be there for the kids.
H did text me twice today so far, logistical things, but at least there is some communication.
Had an intimate moment with H the other night, just a moment but I felt a warmth and connection there that has been missing. Not getting too excited about it though, maybe once a month or so since BD I get a peek of the old H. I don't want to get my hopes up. When those moments start coming more frequently I will know I am on the right track.
I am fighting the urge to text H "I still love you." Haven't said those words in a while. I really want to. But I don't need the hurt that I will feel when the text is ignored. Which I am sure it would be.
Hi photo Huggs to you xx
Don't do it not yet ....saying the ILY is not going to help not now there may or may not be a better time you are doing great I see the strength in your posts
You are getting stronger
Take care ...smile ....go on ....smile ....there ya go :o)
Ghost
Thanks Ghost, I didn't say ILY. Kept it in. I am still keeping insanely busy. Going to crash soon, I can't keep up this pace. But I am having fun, I am making new friends and strengthening the old friendships, so it's not all "faking it" , it is truly GAL but not at a realistic pace.
I also have a confession to make. I reconnected with an ex boyfriend. Its been 26 years. This was my first love, and he broke my heart. I was curious and sent a FB friend request. Over the years he has sent me several, which I ignored. Its only been 2 days. Our first few messages were very innocent, I could even show my mom if I wanted. Or my H. But suddenly he escalated things and now I have this extremely attractive man who is willing to come and, ummm, visit me. Of course I will not take him up on that offer. Of course I told him I am married and that I shouldn't be flirting with him. Of course I flirted anyway. But again today told him I am married and that our conversation escalated too quickly. He said all the right things. Telling me how beautiful I am, how I am a good person. It was really nice to hear. I think he is done messaging me, I tried to be clear. It felt good to be wanted though, really good.
And about a month or two ago a similar thing happened with an old friend- one I had never dated. He tracked me down and we exchanged emails and he is now suddenly "in love" and I swear I didn't even flirt with him! So this is what I am wondering. Are guys really this easy? Maybe because I am going through this crisis I am giving off some kind of vibe?
And last night I was at S11's counseling appointment and I was totally crushing on the counselor. And it was embarrassing because my H was there and I was crushing on him at the same time. I'm like a hormonal teenager these days.
So I need to stick with my women friends because I realize my vulnerability right now. I am so lonely for male companionship. And I don't mean just sex.
All of these months I have been looking at my H and seeing what I thought he was, what I was missing, what I desperately wanted back, and lately when I look at him I see something else- a hurt, weak, lying, mess. And that is not attractive. And yet I still want him. Out of habit? Out of hope that he will resolve his personal crisis? Out of commitment and obligation? Out of love for the man he was before he went into this crisis mode? Maybe a mix of all of the above.
But my eyes are wandering..... I am going to a church group tonight. That should keep me in check. And I am cutting back on drinking wine. Have to keep my judgment clear.
I really do want my H.
Photo go stedy ...things are very much up in the air for you right now I bet you are loving the attention that guys give you it will seriously make you feel good just know that you might be a little vulnerable and open to advances and you do not want to have any regrets
Take care
Ghost
You are 100% right Ghost. 100%. And yet, I keep thinking, for H this would be a natural consequence of telling your W that you don't love her, you love someone else, you hate her, she ruined your life, etc etc etc. How long can you reject someone in every way possible before her mind starts to wander. It's been 7 months, really a few months longer than that- things were pretty bad pre-BD because my H was losing it.
Not what I want. I still want H. But I am human and my hormones must be in high gear lately. I will not act on it. At some point I will, but I would have to be filed for D first. And I am not ready to do that. And I don't think H is going to.
Photo this post made me laugh. Hahhaha I wish I coukd say what's truly on my mind about this one. Hahhaha
But making h jealous won't make things better or bring him back. Just keep what your doing your on the right path.
Overcom, I am glad my weakness of character can make you laugh! I am actually laughing at myself, you should see how I was flirting, I don't even know where that came from. I am learning something new about myself. And going to church tonight. I really hope H pulls out of this soon, or at least gives me some. All of this sexual tension is not good for me, maybe if he files for D I can call my ex for a fun weekend but not until then. And not for more than that, I was smart enough at age 20 to not stay with him, I can't go backwards. I've got to get my mind out of the gutter. Maybe start jogging tomorrow. Something to burn off energy.
Another update. H called me on his way home today and asked if we are doing anything for our anniversary on Sunday. I said "that is up to you. I will go along with whatever you want." He seemed a bit confused and said "do you want to go out to eat or something?" And again I said "up to you."
He is the one who says he is "trying " to love me again but just can't, he is the one who has all the issues with me, I have never wavered in wanting to stay married, so there is no way I am planning to celebrate being married to someone who doesn't want to be married to me. If he wants to go out, I am more than happy to join him. But I am not planning anything. I think we will end up going out to eat. I am guessing no presents or sex or I love you's. I will appreciate it if he wants to go out.
It's not the character I was laughing at it was the part you said you felt like a horny teenager. . Hahahha. Viborator? Hahaha ok there I said it... lollll... you amd I both need to get our minds out from there...
Appriciate the small things. It's a baby step. Make sure you look hot tho even if it's drive thru. Smell good. Deodarant, perfume, shave legs, look HOTTTTT... AND HAVE FUN..
We are on a path with many dead ends, short cuts through swamps and longer difficult paths on high ground.
Chose the best path you and your family.
You are telling me not to cheat Mutatio. You are right. And the temptation is a fun distraction, but not helping me to achieve any of my goals right now. And could be leading me down a wrong path. I know. That is why I admitted it here, I knew I'd be held accountable.
Pho, Just stay true to your heart. You will make the right decisions. I hope your H makes them too! We are all rooting for ya!
Overcome, I will look hot, I have a new dress (well new to me, I bought it at a consignment shop- I am a huge bargain hunter - I find the best stuff - wish you were here I'd take you shopping with me) that is very flattering that I am dying to wear, with high heels.
But if he doesn't tell me in advance we will have at least one of our kids with us because these darn kids are fighting nonstop and I can't leave D14 home alone with S11.
I will be happy that he wants to honor our anniversary in any way. Because he has not been honoring our marriage, so this would be a good thing. Let's see- he could very well decide to do nothing or to forget between now and Sunday.
And we go back to MC tomorrow night so that could very well change everything.
Thanks Dday. My heart is still with H. No doubt about this. Other guys are a distraction. This is taking me by surprise because for 26 years I have not been tempted once, I have been the most loyal W, in thought and action, and for me to suddenly be flirting with and even just noticing other men is telling me that something huge is going on inside my brain. I don't know if it is detaching, or hormones, or just the fact that a human being needs to be loved.
I used to tell my wife how to do things and see where that got me.
What I like to think is that I simply suggested you follow that choice to its logical conclusion and decide for yourself.
I have had two women come on to me in the last six months. One forced her business card on me after a subtle no thank you.
To be honest I cringe at the idea of another woman.
You will chose the right path Photoka, you are a strong woman who will not fail through this tribulation.
Photo...lol It's Judy. Decided to practice some safety and choose a less obvious screen name.
It is easy to not be tempted when you're content with your spouse. But being rejected hurts. Being lonely feels so empty. You are a warm, loving woman craving a connection. It's obvious you are not a loner. And, these guys are HOTT? Yeah. Fire up the libido.
Flirting is both good for your ego and EXTREMELY DANGEROUS. Danger, danger, danger...
You called it. 1. Stick with your gal pals. 2. Batteries can be bought in large quantities at a warehouse store.
Third option? Get H drunk. I'm giving it some serious thought. One friendly smile in my direction? I'll crack a cold one for him...then keep them coming.
Hope this helps!
Judy hahhaha... I'm not the only one whose mind is in the gutter. Hahhaah....
photo I love bargain shopping too.. actually I wish I was far away from home right now amd shopping g sounds great! Can I leave my email here??? I'd love to email you amd judy privately? !?!?
Judy and Overcom, you are both cracking me up. I'd love to email you or chat privately but I think its against the rules here? They won't even let us link to outside websites. I don't want to get in "trouble" - this is my best source of support.
And, just to clarify, my ex is so hot, he has been a model for some pretty big clients. The other guy, is cute, in an average guy way. Neither of them would be relationship material in my opinion. The ex is a player and the other guy is a nice guy but not for me.
Hahah your too funny. How can we find out? I know there is a big dbing on fb.
Thanks Ghost, I didn't say ILY. Kept it in. I am still keeping insanely busy. Going to crash soon, I can't keep up this pace. But I am having fun, I am making new friends and strengthening the old friendships, so it's not all "faking it" , it is truly GAL but not at a realistic pace. As youve said in my thread, I think we're on the same track here. Tonight will be my fourth night out past 11 in a row. At some point, Im imagine Ill crash. But Im ENJOYING everything Im doing, and its not hurting me. So why stop, right?
I also have a confession to make. I reconnected with an ex boyfriend. Its been 26 years. This was my first love, and he broke my heart. I was curious and sent a FB friend request. Over the years he has sent me several, which I ignored. Its only been 2 days. Our first few messages were very innocent, I could even show my mom if I wanted. Or my H. But suddenly he escalated things and now I have this extremely attractive man who is willing to come and, ummm, visit me. Of course I will not take him up on that offer. Of course I told him I am married and that I shouldn't be flirting with him. Of course I flirted anyway. But again today told him I am married and that our conversation escalated too quickly. He said all the right things. Telling me how beautiful I am, how I am a good person. It was really nice to hear. I think he is done messaging me, I tried to be clear. It felt good to be wanted though, really good. I can imagine this. I can understand this. Feeling that sense that other people value who are is so....intoxicating. And not just kids or "guys/gals", but adults of the opposite sex. It's a dangerous siren's song. But Im right there with you. At some point............
And about a month or two ago a similar thing happened with an old friend- one I had never dated. He tracked me down and we exchanged emails and he is now suddenly "in love" and I swear I didn't even flirt with him! So this is what I am wondering. Are guys really this easy? Maybe because I am going through this crisis I am giving off some kind of vibe? Maybe youre doing it without really realizing? Or your threshold for "flirting" is lower?
And last night I was at S11's counseling appointment and I was totally crushing on the counselor. And it was embarrassing because my H was there and I was crushing on him at the same time. I'm like a hormonal teenager these days. At some point, I feel like I could have been writing this.
So I need to stick with my women friends because I realize my vulnerability right now. I am so lonely for male companionship. And I don't mean just sex.
All of these months I have been looking at my H and seeing what I thought he was, what I was missing, what I desperately wanted back, and lately when I look at him I see something else- a hurt, weak, lying, mess. And that is not attractive. And yet I still want him. Out of habit? Out of hope that he will resolve his personal crisis? Out of commitment and obligation? Out of love for the man he was before he went into this crisis mode? Maybe a mix of all of the above.
But my eyes are wandering..... I am going to a church group tonight. That should keep me in check. And I am cutting back on drinking wine. Have to keep my judgment clear.
I really do want my H. Im sure this is how your H and my W felt for months or years before this all happened. But Im right there with you. Its been however many months that theyve been in this crisis and we have been standing by them out of love, out of hope, out of commitment, getting nothing back from them and in some cases, worse than negative - NEGATIVE responses. But, here we stand. For what we believe in. What we want. What we want for our children.
Let's keep going, PK. I will choose to stand today.
Its been however many months that theyve been in this crisis and we have been standing by them out of love, out of hope, out of commitment, getting nothing back from them and in some cases, worse than negative - NEGATIVE responses. But, here we stand. For what we believe in. What we want. What we want for our children.
A I am right there with you and photo. ..
Azzork and Overcom, thanks. I will continue to stand today too.
And Azzork, I read through the chats and emails with my "boyfriends" and realized with one of them I flirted first. Well, I set up a comment that really lead up to it. And with the other it was all him. And inappropriately so, and I shut him down. I feel a little guilty reading the chat with my ex though, it got a little racey. I would not want my H to read what I wrote, ever. I would love it if I could have an exchange like that with him.
As far as our W's and H's feeling this way for a long time prior to BD. I get that. But I also don't "get" how they could have not communicated to us what was happening. Being unhappy is no excuse for walking out, why couldn't my H have picked up the phone and made an appointment with a MC before it got to that point? And sometimes I wonder if his "valid" reasons are real at all or just a smokescreen. The more I try to figure it out the more confused I get. I guess it doesn't matter, what is done is done. I am hoping for a better future.
All I know is that for all my faults, of which there were many, I did not deserve this. And at the same time, I still love him. And I am doing my best to keep myself going.
I cannot believe how much pain there still is this far into it.
I read through the chats and emails with my "boyfriends" and realized with one of them I flirted first. Well, I set up a comment that really lead up to it. And with the other it was all him. And inappropriately so, and I shut him down. I feel a little guilty reading the chat with my ex though, it got a little racey. I would not want my H to read what I wrote, ever. I would love it if I could have an exchange like that with him.
Don't beat yourself up over it. You recognized it and shut it down. Learn from this and keep moving forward.
As far as our W's and H's feeling this way for a long time prior to BD. I get that. But I also don't "get" how they could have not communicated to us what was happening. Being unhappy is no excuse for walking out, why couldn't my H have picked up the phone and made an appointment with a MC before it got to that point? And sometimes I wonder if his "valid" reasons are real at all or just a smokescreen. The more I try to figure it out the more confused I get. I guess it doesn't matter, what is done is done. I am hoping for a better future.
I will never understand why my W thought that cutting and running off with OM was better for her, me, and our family. It's mind boggling that she felt like she could not approach me and have a serious discussion about where she was in her life and which needs were not being met. The "Im still young. Im not going to live this way another 50 years." mindset is understandable, but to have change, you need to embody change yourself. Somehow, they expected us to change, and when we didnt, they decide it hurts less to just run.
In the end, I guess I dont really blame her. She didnt and doesnt have the tools to deal with the feelings and emotions that she was experiencing. She chose to take the easy road. All I can do is see where it leads her.
For you, I think it's the same. To have change in your R, you need to be the embodiment of change. You need to evolve, to grow, to blossom. Keep using your time for good.
All I know is that for all my faults, of which there were many, I did not deserve this. And at the same time, I still love him. And I am doing my best to keep myself going.
No. None of us deserve this. But that doesnt take it away. All there is to do is learn about it, understand what happened, and move forward.
I cannot believe how much pain there still is this far into it.
Every day is a struggle. Nobody said this was going to be easy. At least make the pain worth it.
Photo I've asked my h why he cheated and walked away before and not communicate with me hey we need to talk I'm not happy bla bla bla amd his response was how did you not know we were having problems. I said we seemed happy. He's like ya cause I would suck it up. That's what my h says...
Photo I've asked my h why he cheated and walked away before and not communicate with me hey we need to talk I'm not happy bla bla bla amd his response was how did you not know we were having problems. I said we seemed happy. He's like ya cause I would suck it up. That's what my h says...
Overcome, I knew my H was unhappy too, but he wasn't doing anything about it. If I was truly unhappy I think I'd act.
Exactly if I new we had a huge problem I'd act on it too. .
I read through the chats and emails with my "boyfriends" and realized with one of them I flirted first. Well, I set up a comment that really lead up to it. And with the other it was all him. And inappropriately so, and I shut him down. I feel a little guilty reading the chat with my ex though, it got a little racey. I would not want my H to read what I wrote, ever. I would love it if I could have an exchange like that with him.
Don't beat yourself up over it. You recognized it and shut it down. Learn from this and keep moving forward.
[/b]Thanks Azz. I actually feel "proud" of myself in a weird way- I could never talk sexy like this with my H, there is just no way. I kind of surprised myself and I liked it. Just wish it was H. [b]
As far as our W's and H's feeling this way for a long time prior to BD. I get that. But I also don't "get" how they could have not communicated to us what was happening. Being unhappy is no excuse for walking out, why couldn't my H have picked up the phone and made an appointment with a MC before it got to that point? And sometimes I wonder if his "valid" reasons are real at all or just a smokescreen. The more I try to figure it out the more confused I get. I guess it doesn't matter, what is done is done. I am hoping for a better future.
I will never understand why my W thought that cutting and running off with OM was better for her, me, and our family. It's mind boggling that she felt like she could not approach me and have a serious discussion about where she was in her life and which needs were not being met. The "Im still young. Im not going to live this way another 50 years." mindset is understandable, but to have change, you need to embody change yourself. Somehow, they expected us to change, and when we didnt, they decide it hurts less to just run.
In the end, I guess I dont really blame her. She didnt and doesnt have the tools to deal with the feelings and emotions that she was experiencing. She chose to take the easy road. All I can do is see where it leads her.
For you, I think it's the same. To have change in your R, you need to be the embodiment of change. You need to evolve, to grow, to blossom. Keep using your time for good.
[/b]This is the bottom line I think for most of us. The details get us distracted from this basic truth. I am changing. I am trying to use my time for good. I know this experience is going to change my life whatever happens, and I don't want to turn into a bitter, resentful person. [b]
All I know is that for all my faults, of which there were many, I did not deserve this. And at the same time, I still love him. And I am doing my best to keep myself going.
No. None of us deserve this. But that doesnt take it away. All there is to do is learn about it, understand what happened, and move forward.
I cannot believe how much pain there still is this far into it.
Every day is a struggle. Nobody said this was going to be easy. At least make the pain worth it.
Haven't figured out the how to bold and copy correctly. Maybe that is why H left me. I am sure he'd add it to his long list of reasons. I'm not even kidding.
Photo
It's easily remedied the first [b] is always followed by a finish [/.b]. (I put a . in the bracket so you can see) the / is always in the finish bracket. You simply have the brackets back to front!
Copy is easy, put your finger on a big word in the middle of a paragraph you want to copy, when the choice arises use "copy" or "select" a highlight comes up with two tiny handles. Pull the handles to highlight the selection. Click on copy which puts your selection to the clipboard. Go to the place you want to paste, then finger on that spot select paste.
You can use quick quote if it's a whole post you want to copy.
Hope this helps.
It's like DB, learn the simple ways, and correct basic errors and voila results.
V
Went to MC tonight. H was ranting and riled up. Just as angry as ever. When MC finally let me speak I told him that I was preparing to move forward with my life, preparing to be separated because I can not live "stuck" and angry. I said I have been focusing on my life, my kids, building a support system, and preparing for my future while H is stuck in past hurts and shows no signs of moving forward.
H ranted a little more and then the session was over. I think he proved my point. He still sees himself as a victim and does not even notice all of the improvements I have made in response to his complaints. I have changed so much. At this point he is just punishing me.
I am sad. Also relieved, that had to be said. Although I think I said that a couple of weeks ago. But it had to be said again and very clearly. I can't live this way, maybe some space will give him perspective and will give me a chance to be able to relax in my own home. I am in hell. I won't push the issue right now but soon if he doesn't start coming out of this he is going to have to find his own apartment.
Oh, I should also add, that while he was ranting I validated when I could get a word in edge wise. It didn't help. The counselor noticed, and commented on it, but H is just too spun up with anger.
Let him have his anger, let him enjoy it. He has earned it. Remember that every negative thing he says to you the reverse is true. If he says you are mean you are generous, if he says you are ugly, you are beautiful. When he accuses you, he is accusing himself. When he says he is angry with you then he is really angry with himself. It's really uncomfortable for him. Validate and acknowledge. Observe with a smile.
He has been thwarted and doesn't like it. Toys and prams.
The MC is a "safe" place to let it out so he will. Rest it for a while, the next step may be a return to OW, or he may have faced his nemesis in the kids.
He will miss OW and the addiction, he will have a hole in his soul. His hormones will be all over. He sees your shift, his plan to have an MC bring you in line has failed, he may disparage the MC for this too.
Stay steady. You may think validation didn't help although it is the best of the worst options. Better than anger, revenge or roaring with laughter. When my WH behaved like this I saw him as the Disney Cigar Smoking Baby.
You did well, really well.
V
Photoka I cant keep up with you !! Keep your positive attitude. You are a very strong woman and you are worth it! Did I miss it on here, did you get the job you were hoping for?
sending positive thoughts your way
Sorry fat finger the rest of the post:
He has noticed your changes, that's his issue, he didn't want them, he was using them as his excuse for his behaviour, you blew that open. He wants your change and he doesn't. Confusion reigns, and obviously the problem is you. Observe.
V
AMEN!!!!![u][/u][b][/b]
AND I WANT TO BE THE SAME LIKE YOU STRONG & CONFIDANT SO DON'T LET ME FALL!!! LOL
Vanilla, I think you are right. I am very sad tonight.
Lonelee, I still need to speak to the woman who wanted to talk to me about the job. I think she is traveling this week, I will catch her soon, she is in my neighborhood and I usually see her a couple of times per week.
And how are you???
Overcome, you make me laugh! You know, as sad as I am, and as hard as I've had it this week, I am actually laughing. And I am not losing sleep over H any more.
And ironically, since we got home from MC he has been nicer to me tonight. Not a lot nicer, but nicer.
IF YOU CONTINUE THIS IDGAF ATTITUDE IT WILL MELT HIM. IT WILL MAKE HIM REALIZE WHAT HES DOING. SO CONTINUE WHAT YOUR DOING... I GIVE YOU THUMBS UP. AND DONT BE SAD. BE HAPPY THAT YOU ARE MAKING CHANGES. I WISH I COULD TAKE MY ADVICE SOMETIMES. BUT I KNOW BEING IN THE SITUATION AND DOING THINGS IS REALLY HARD... I ALWAYS THINK IF HES THINKING ABOUT ME WHEN HES WITH HER. BUT FOR ONCE I DONT CARE. WE ARE GONNA COME OUT STRONGER AND THEN IT MAY BE TO LATE FOR THE S. IF THEY WANT TO COME BACK.
JUST KNOW THAT GOD IS ON YOUR SIDE. HE HAS A PLAN AND HES WORKING ON IT. HIS HOLY SPIRIT IS WORKING IN YOUR HUSBANDS LIFE RIGHT NOW. JUST STAND BY AND LET JESUS DO HIS JOB. HE WILL FIX EVERYTHING. HUGGGGGSSSS
Well I did cry when I said it, but a dignified cry, tears in my eyes and a quiver in my voice, not a big bawling cry. I am honest in that I can't stay "stuck" forever, my kids deserve better.
AMEN!!!!! underlined bold
AND I WANT TO BE THE SAME LIKE YOU STRONG & CONFIDANT SO DON'T LET ME FALL!!! LOL
Put the words betwen the brackets.
words between brackets in italics.
Amen I am bold between the brackets you can even double up
double up bold and italics between two sets of brackets Try quoting this post to see what I mean, then discard. The last brackets have the / in them, the brackets are like the " around "the phrase you want to format"
V
An,
Yes, warning! IRL contact isn't board rules. we don't want to loose you. Plus there are strangers out there mainly non board members who can be freaky. I recommend removing your post or changing your e.
V
Oh no that's my fault..sorry v.
Use the notify button on the post you would like changed or deleted, apologise say the post was inappropriate and can it be removed please. This was naive and enthusiastic of you rather than deliberate. I have myself had a troll online, and trust me it isn't an experience you want or need. Plus I removed a double post and a mixed up one that way.
The omnipotentcadet or everpresentjob will remove it. Bless them, our posting Angel mods with super powers.
V
Use the notify button on the post you would like changed or deleted, apologise say the post was inappropriate and can it be removed please. This was naive and enthusiastic of you rather than deliberate. I have myself had a troll online, and trust me it isn't an experience you want or need. Plus I removed a double post and a mixed up one that way.
The omnipotentcadet or everpresentjob will remove it. Bless them, our posting Angel mods with super powers.
V
Actually Job is not a moderator.
But she is good at saying
Start a new thread you are at a 100 posts.
New thread link
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2611472#Post2611472