Hello,
My wife and I have been married for 30 years. Just a few weeks ago she announced she wants a divorce. Not a separation. A divorce.
If you ask her why she is doing this, she will say, because we are different people, and there has been a wall between us. We can't communicate.
I just got introduced to this website and for the first time. Until now, I have been begging, promising, crying, apologizing, but now I have put an end to that. I realize, she even told me, the more of that, the more she is pushed away.
For years she has been saying we have these communication and connection problems but I never really "got it." We have been to counseling, and would feel a little better for a while but would always return to our rut. And I would never really understand why she didn't feel connected. I didn't feel madly in love but I felt OK with things. Now I get it. I can see some of the things I was doing were making her feel unloved. I wasn't giving her the attention she needed and deserved. I wasn't spending time with her. Now that I get it, I feel so bad that I wasn't giving her the love she needed, and I also wish I could just get one more chance to show her what it is like to be loved. I can think of so many things that I would do if she came back. Man would she be loved!
But that is not happening now. She has given me another chance before. In her mind she is "done." End of story. She says she still loves me and cares about me and wants to be my friend but we are not compatible. After 30 years! ARGH!
Note, there is no other person. She has told me (and our counselor) that she has no intention to be with another person. Relationships are a downer for her now.
My biggest problem right now is that she wants to move quickly and get it over with. I feel like if I had some time I could do the things I am reading about on this site. she wants to move into a different place as soon as possible. I feel this will be a huge financial burden and both of us will have a hard time making ends meet and the kids will suffer. I really don't see how we can even make it on our own, with each having our own mortgage. So I am really stressed about taking on all the expenses with half the income. I think the little savings we have will be gone quickly and then we could lose one or both of the houses. Plus, for the kids, I think they would have some time to adjust to the idea of what is happening if we take things slowly. And, I feel like if we are in separate houses I will not be able to show her I am changing. That seems to be the easiest part - the 180. I am reading books about how to communicate better, control my anger, I'm getting up earlier in the morning, I'm looking her in the eye when we talk, and repeating back what she says, I'm cleaning up much more around the house, I feel like a different person.
But moving into a different house (whether it is me or her) My fear is that if she gets into another house, our finances will go down the drain, the kids will suffer more, and she will never get to see the changes I'm making.
I know one of the ideas here is to let her take the space she needs. but in this case I really think it is going to hurt my cause. I really would like to stay under one roof as long as possible and I can live in a different room and give her lots of space, and stay at a friends house a few nights a week... But she just says she feels strongly that one of us has to move out and get a new place. She thinks it will be easier on the kids because they won't be confused by seeing us interacting when we are "split up." And I think she is in "la-la land" in terms how it will be financially when she's on her own.
I just don't get it, after 30 years, can't we just slow down a bit? What is the rush? I understand she wants to split up with me but I don't see why we have to move towards separate houses and plow towards the Big D as soon as possible.
I have been depressed, losing weight,... To be honest, the only thing that keeps me going sometimes is the hope that I will get her back.
I know I'm supposed to detach. But I am having a hard time with that. I just love her. More than ever before. All the things that used to bug me about her before have disappeared. I can do the "Act as if" because it's acting, and down inside I am sad and wanting to be with her. But detaching means to actually let her go. To give up. No way. I just can't do that. this whole thing is supposed to be about getting her back, right? why do I have to detach? Can't I keep my love for her strong, even if it is hidden?
And in regards to the house situation, I would love to hear from others if I should continue to resist her plan to get out as soon as possible.
thanks.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
One of the things I have finally learned is detaching IS NOT letting go or giving up hope. It is to help you. You can't control or change them you can only do that yourself.
There are so many wonderful people here. Listen to what they are telling you. Read and re-read the replies until you Listen to what they say. Read anything and everything you can get your hands on and all the threads in this forum. It will help you to understand.
I know your scared. I am too. But the time I have spent doing what I am saying for you to do has given me the hope and courage necessary to do this.
Best wishes
Wow - long post! But some thoughts:
Note, there is no other person. She has told me (and our counselor) that she has no intention to be with another person. Relationships are a downer for her now.
Nobody here believes there's another person. And there MAY not be. But if the shoe were on the other foot, would YOU tell HER there was another woman? What do her actions say - hiding phone? Secretive? Not sleeping the same? Etc.
My biggest problem right now is that she wants to move quickly and get it over with. I feel like if I had some time I could do the things I am reading about on this site. she wants to move into a different place as soon as possible. I feel this will be a huge financial burden and both of us will have a hard time making ends meet and the kids will suffer. I really don't see how we can even make it on our own, with each having our own mortgage. So I am really stressed about taking on all the expenses with half the income. I think the little savings we have will be gone quickly and then we could lose one or both of the houses. Plus, for the kids, I think they would have some time to adjust to the idea of what is happening if we take things slowly. And, I feel like if we are in separate houses I will not be able to show her I am changing. That seems to be the easiest part - the 180. I am reading books about how to communicate better, control my anger, I'm getting up earlier in the morning, I'm looking her in the eye when we talk, and repeating back what she says, I'm cleaning up much more around the house, I feel like a different person.
It doesn't really matter how fast she's moving. There is nothing that's not irreversible. She moves out...who's to say she won't move back in. You get divorced...who's to say you won't remarry. No amount of reasoning or logic will get her to hold back now.
But moving into a different house (whether it is me or her) My fear is that if she gets into another house, our finances will go down the drain, the kids will suffer more, and she will never get to see the changes I'm making.
The changes are for you. If she's interested, she will see them. Plus, you have kids, so you'll always be connected. Honestly, being apart may highlight them more. Can you see paint dry or grass grow? What if you leave for a month?
I know one of the ideas here is to let her take the space she needs. but in this case I really think it is going to hurt my cause. I really would like to stay under one roof as long as possible and I can live in a different room and give her lots of space, and stay at a friends house a few nights a week... But she just says she feels strongly that one of us has to move out and get a new place. She thinks it will be easier on the kids because they won't be confused by seeing us interacting when we are "split up." And I think she is in "la-la land" in terms how it will be financially when she's on her own.
Why is your situation any different? Though I'd say if she wants to split, let HER leave.
I just don't get it, after 30 years, can't we just slow down a bit? What is the rush? I understand she wants to split up with me but I don't see why we have to move towards separate houses and plow towards the Big D as soon as possible.
See my first comment above. But it could also be that she doesn't want to question things now. Plow ahead with no questions asked to "get away". Then look around later.
I have been depressed, losing weight,... To be honest, the only thing that keeps me going sometimes is the hope that I will get her back.
Hope is good. Hope is GREAT.
But depression is not. Who wants to be married to someone like that. Time to pick up the PMA. FAKE IT UNTIL YOU MAKE IT. It's time to prove to yourself that you can be happy without your wife.
I know I'm supposed to detach. But I am having a hard time with that. I just love her. More than ever before. All the things that used to bug me about her before have disappeared. I can do the "Act as if" because it's acting, and down inside I am sad and wanting to be with her. But detaching means to actually let her go. To give up. No way. I just can't do that. this whole thing is supposed to be about getting her back, right? why do I have to detach? Can't I keep my love for her strong, even if it is hidden?
Where does it say that you have to stop loving her when you detach? That's not what it's sbout. It's about learning to love and prioritize YOU. She won't be ready to love you until you can love yourself again. And there is no way to do that until you detach yourself and your being from her, emotionally.
Wishing you the best, Gabs.
Wow - long post! But some thoughts:
Note, there is no other person. She has told me (and our counselor) that she has no intention to be with another person. Relationships are a downer for her now.
Nobody here believes there's another person. And there MAY not be. But if the shoe were on the other foot, would YOU tell HER there was another woman? What do her actions say - hiding phone? Secretive? Not sleeping the same? Etc.
I realize that others deny there is an affair, but I am confident about this. She has shown none of these signs. She had an affair 20+ years ago and promised she would never do it again. I do still trust her. She has told me her "heart is closed down" because of what has happened between us. She has had no opportunity to be going out with someone else.
But moving into a different house (whether it is me or her) My fear is that if she gets into another house, our finances will go down the drain, the kids will suffer more, and she will never get to see the changes I'm making.
The changes are for you. If she's interested, she will see them. Plus, you have kids, so you'll always be connected. Honestly, being apart may highlight them more. Can you see paint dry or grass grow? What if you leave for a month?
I would love to just leave for a month. But she seems set on moving forward as quickly as possible. Which means finding another house to buy. The only thing stopping her from getting out now is that if she found a house today, there would be a few months before closing. FYI, she has indicated a number of times that the main reason she wants to move forward quickly is because the longer we are in the same house, or still legally married, the longer I am going to be holding on and hoping that we get back together. All this motivation to move quickly seems to be about getting me to give up.
I just don't get it, after 30 years, can't we just slow down a bit? What is the rush? I understand she wants to split up with me but I don't see why we have to move towards separate houses and plow towards the Big D as soon as possible.
See my first comment above. But it could also be that she doesn't want to question things now. Plow ahead with no questions asked to "get away". Then look around later.
I think part of it is that she doesn't want to keep questioning her decision, but it is also that she think I'm going to hold on to hope that we get back together as long as we are still under one roof, still legally married, etc. I did say once that even if we divorce we could still remarry one day and she rolled her eyes.
I have been depressed, losing weight,... To be honest, the only thing that keeps me going sometimes is the hope that I will get her back.
Hope is good. Hope is GREAT.
But depression is not. Who wants to be married to someone like that. Time to pick up the PMA. FAKE IT UNTIL YOU MAKE IT. It's time to prove to yourself that you can be happy without your wife.
that's a tough one. i'm convinced we are soul mates. I'm not ready to prove to myself that otherwise is true.
I know I'm supposed to detach. But I am having a hard time with that. I just love her. More than ever before. All the things that used to bug me about her before have disappeared. I can do the "Act as if" because it's acting, and down inside I am sad and wanting to be with her. But detaching means to actually let her go. To give up. No way. I just can't do that. this whole thing is supposed to be about getting her back, right? why do I have to detach? Can't I keep my love for her strong, even if it is hidden?
Where does it say that you have to stop loving her when you detach? That's not what it's sbout. It's about learning to love and prioritize YOU. She won't be ready to love you until you can love yourself again. And there is no way to do that until you detach yourself and your being from her, emotionally.
I don't get that one. Can't I love myself and still be focused on her and getting her back?
Wishing you the best, Gabs.
Thanks so much,
gabs
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Gabs ... welcome .. or whatever we are supposed to say to someone who is 'here' as its not the place most of us ever wanted to be right? A vet read your sitch and sounded me on my board thinking I may be able to help you ... I respect her completely and if I can in anyway help someone I am all about it as I received some serious help in my stay here.
I quoted your post and will chop it down some ... just key points for now. Things that appear need to be cleared up ... there is a TON to learn and absorb here at first ... I will tell you that some of these things as you already have hinted feel the complete opposite of your very being but they are for the best, you will have to TRUST me a bit .. and the process and I know how impossible that may be as ... well you have no idea who I am.
That being said ... I have been at 'this' a bit ... there was no magic bullet, no secret cure ... my wife like yours decided she needed out ... just like that .. and like yours it felt like a race ... she BD in Sept and was out by Nov ... just like that. OM/A ... really does not matter you have to DB regardless ... so lets look at your post a bit.....
Hello,
My wife and I have been married for 30 years. Just a few weeks ago she announced she wants a divorce. Not a separation. A divorce.
If you ask her why she is doing this, she will say, because we are different people, and there has been a wall between us. We can't communicate.
I just got introduced to this website and for the first time. Until now, I have been begging, promising, crying, apologizing, but now I have put an end to that. I realize, she even told me, the more of that, the more she is pushed away.
Ok ... so you have learned this ... Do NOT Pursue (READ Sandi's 37 .. .GOLDMINE .. learn it and live it
For years she has been saying we have these communication and connection problems but I never really "got it." We have been to counseling, and would feel a little better for a while but would always return to our rut. And I would never really understand why she didn't feel connected. I didn't feel madly in love but I felt OK with things. Now I get it. I can see some of the things I was doing were making her feel unloved. I wasn't giving her the attention she needed and deserved. I wasn't spending time with her. Now that I get it, I feel so bad that I wasn't giving her the love she needed, and I also wish I could just get one more chance to show her what it is like to be loved. I can think of so many things that I would do if she came back. Man would she be loved!
Ok ... I will touch on this later .. but just realize it took YEARS for her to feel this way .. you all the sudden waking up will not make her feel 'oh its all good' its going to take time fro her to TRUST your changes.
But that is not happening now. She has given me another chance before. In her mind she is "done." End of story. She says she still loves me and cares about me and wants to be my friend but we are not compatible. After 30 years! ARGH!
Note, there is no other person. She has told me (and our counselor) that she has no intention to be with another person. Relationships are a downer for her now.
She is done ... and buckle up .. soon she will have a list of reasons, rewritten history and continue to convince herself why its best to leave you ... take this for what it is .. its script but for you ... you need to do the self work, become the best option, might be a OM ... might not .. does not change YOUR approach here.
My biggest problem right now is that she wants to move quickly and get it over with. I feel like if I had some time I could do the things I am reading about on this site. she wants to move into a different place as soon as possible. I feel this will be a huge financial burden and both of us will have a hard time making ends meet and the kids will suffer. I really don't see how we can even make it on our own, with each having our own mortgage. So I am really stressed about taking on all the expenses with half the income. I think the little savings we have will be gone quickly and then we could lose one or both of the houses. Plus, for the kids, I think they would have some time to adjust to the idea of what is happening if we take things slowly. And, I feel like if we are in separate houses I will not be able to show her I am changing. That seems to be the easiest part - the 180. I am reading books about how to communicate better, control my anger, I'm getting up earlier in the morning, I'm looking her in the eye when we talk, and repeating back what she says, I'm cleaning up much more around the house, I feel like a different person.
This is not your biggest problem, your biggest problem is she has checked out ... the speed at which she wants to move on and start her new life is just a result of this
I get it ... its fear that controls you right now, fear of her gone, family over, you alone, all you know gone ... fear will consume you a bit here ... just accept these feelings and use that to focus on what you need to do .... but not for HER. You need to do this for YOU, thats the trap many fall into is doing all these things to 'win' her back and I promise you she will see right through that and be further out the door just as if you beg plead and grovel for her to stay.
But moving into a different house (whether it is me or her) My fear is that if she gets into another house, our finances will go down the drain, the kids will suffer more, and she will never get to see the changes I'm making.
Yup ... its a big finacial hit, but guess what, she will feel it to, and the WAS must start feeling the consequences of their actions. You can not control this part, if she wants out, she goes ... I would advise you STAY ... her choice her decision ... she leaves not you ... you are standing for your M here right?
I know one of the ideas here is to let her take the space she needs. but in this case I really think it is going to hurt my cause. I really would like to stay under one roof as long as possible and I can live in a different room and give her lots of space, and stay at a friends house a few nights a week... But she just says she feels strongly that one of us has to move out and get a new place. She thinks it will be easier on the kids because they won't be confused by seeing us interacting when we are "split up." And I think she is in "la-la land" in terms how it will be financially when she's on her own.
Nope ... you stay in the MBR and the house... if there is not A or OM ... I would be ok with W staying there too if she chooses .. but if there is an A the advice is we ask them to leave the MBR at the least. If she so strongly wants out .. she goes ... mine did, I did not grovel, did not help her move ... her choice and her responsibility ... it becomes REAL when they leave, otherwise you leave and allow them their cake and way of life, and its up to THEM when you can come home ...make sense?
IF you do split, (I know you do not WANT to) you need to legally separate to protect yourself and the kids
I just don't get it, after 30 years, can't we just slow down a bit? What is the rush? I understand she wants to split up with me but I don't see why we have to move towards separate houses and plow towards the Big D as soon as possible.
I have been depressed, losing weight,... To be honest, the only thing that keeps me going sometimes is the hope that I will get her back.
We never get it ... they have had this planned out for years. You do have a chance here ... trust me ... but you will have to do some work and its going to take time ... she will want to rush through this, there are things you can do to flip this in your favor as you become more of the person you were meant to be .... one she will come to respect.
I know I'm supposed to detach. But I am having a hard time with that. I just love her. More than ever before. All the things that used to bug me about her before have disappeared. I can do the "Act as if" because it's acting, and down inside I am sad and wanting to be with her. But detaching means to actually let her go. To give up. No way. I just can't do that. this whole thing is supposed to be about getting her back, right? why do I have to detach? Can't I keep my love for her strong, even if it is hidden?
And in regards to the house situation, I would love to hear from others if I should continue to resist her plan to get out as soon as possible.
thanks.
Detach was brutal for me too ... I felt like a kid clinging to moms leg begging 'Don't leave me alone' ... normal, but you have to let go, the more you squeeze the more she will wiggle to get free. Detaching does not mean you stop loving them ... you just poker face it a bit .. love from afar if you will. Its about attitude .. and once you start doing it she will test you ... she will most likely see where you are at. Though she is pressing to leave and D ... after 30 years she still will want you in certain regards, this is to your advantage. You have to play the long game, big picture this constantly.
I know its strange, and feels sometimes like the opposite of what you feel you should do ... but think about it .. what you felt you should do to this point has your W running for the hills .... whats the worst that can happen at this point that is not already heading in that direction?
Seriously, this thread should be one of Cadet's stickied. The first few posts are pure DB gold.
Thanks Cali and Azzork.
Can we assume that Azzork didn't just stumble upon the boards two weeks ago and has just skimmed through DB and DR...?
Gabs,
I'm glad you found the site. Cali is 100% right and I think the other vets here will tell you the same thing over and over and you will resist it over and over because it just feels so "wrong". As Cali said, however, you need to recognize the fear and the urgency for what they are, step back and take the long view. NOTHING YOU DO IN THE NEXT TWO WEEKS WILL REVERSE HER COURSE OF ACTION -- NOTHING. Really all you can do is either (1) make things worse or (2) not make things any worse than they already are.
Instead of shooting for reconciliation as your target, or "getting her back", for now set your sights only on stabilizing things and not making them worse. Don't push her to take the next step away from you emotionally by continuing to chase her.
Don't convince yourself that it's okay to pursue her because your intentions are good, or it will open her eyes, or she needs to hear it, or she needs an apology, or etc. etc. etc. This is all just you convincing yourself its okay to do what you want to do versus doing what is best for your situation.
Keep reading, keep contributing. No matter what happens I promise that you will be fine in the long run -- better than fine.
Acc
Hey gabs
Your post is almost exactly the same as mine I could be re reading my posts here
The only difference is at the moment my W is happy to stay in the same house I guess for stability of the kids and I think she know t is going to be very expensive moving
We have been in separate beds in different rooms since she dropped the B it is strange saying good night to her and then going upstairs as she stays d/stairs in the office that we are converting to a bedroom ...my junk pso I guess I have to move it .
Detaching is very difficult I will not kid you I have been her for a couple of months and the help you get is fantastic sometimes you will fight against it believing that you ha the answers but in my experience so far eveyting I have tried has not worked find things ro do to take your mind off this
I am so sorry you are here but you are amongst manŷ people who really care
Speak again
Gary
Yes I agree the help here is by far better than regular counseling, where you just speak your mind but they cannot give you direction.
Sorry you are here, we all are. But these changes will make you in to a much better person, only a fool would want to leave.
Praying for you!
This may get ugly. But I'm going to try to keep quoting b
Wow - long post! But some thoughts:
Note, there is no other person. She has told me (and our counselor) that she has no intention to be with another person. Relationships are a downer for her now.
Nobody here believes there's another person. And there MAY not be. But if the shoe were on the other foot, would YOU tell HER there was another woman? What do her actions say - hiding phone? Secretive? Not sleeping the same? Etc.
I realize that others deny there is an affair, but I am confident about this. She has shown none of these signs. She had an affair 20+ years ago and promised she would never do it again. I do still trust her. She has told me her "heart is closed down" because of what has happened between us. She has had no opportunity to be going out with someone else.
Again. I'm not saying there is one. As CaliGuy said, it doesn't REALLY matter for the journey you are about to take. But it's something you may want to start filtering through your head so it doesn't wreck you later.
But moving into a different house (whether it is me or her) My fear is that if she gets into another house, our finances will go down the drain, the kids will suffer more, and she will never get to see the changes I'm making.
The changes are for you. If she's interested, she will see them. Plus, you have kids, so you'll always be connected. Honestly, being apart may highlight them more. Can you see paint dry or grass grow? What if you leave for a month?
I would love to just leave for a month. But she seems set on moving forward as quickly as possible. Which means finding another house to buy. The only thing stopping her from getting out now is that if she found a house today, there would be a few months before closing. FYI, she has indicated a number of times that the main reason she wants to move forward quickly is because the longer we are in the same house, or still legally married, the longer I am going to be holding on and hoping that we get back together. All this motivation to move quickly seems to be about getting me to give up.
HALT.
I did NOT mean to imply YOU leave for a month. I meant the following:
Can you see grass grow or paint dry? What if you come back a month later? Has it grown/dried?
My point is to not worry about your W seeing every minor change as you make it. Sometimes the distance helps as an impetus to change AND allows them to be seen in a more pronounced way.
I just don't get it, after 30 years, can't we just slow down a bit? What is the rush? I understand she wants to split up with me but I don't see why we have to move towards separate houses and plow towards the Big D as soon as possible.
See my first comment above. But it could also be that she doesn't want to question things now. Plow ahead with no questions asked to "get away". Then look around later.
I think part of it is that she doesn't want to keep questioning her decision, but it is also that she think I'm going to hold on to hope that we get back together as long as we are still under one roof, still legally married, etc. I did say once that even if we divorce we could still remarry one day and she rolled her eyes.
Yeah. That pursuit thing. Hopefully you will see to knock it off.
She. Does. Not. Want. To. Be. Your. Wife. Anymore.
But! That doesn't mean that it always has to be that way. When you got married, she DID want to be your wife. So...just remember that feelings change. Sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly, but they do change.
I have been depressed, losing weight,... To be honest, the only thing that keeps me going sometimes is the hope that I will get her back.
Hope is good. Hope is GREAT.
But depression is not. Who wants to be married to someone like that. Time to pick up the PMA. FAKE IT UNTIL YOU MAKE IT. It's time to prove to yourself that you can be happy without your wife.
that's a tough one. i'm convinced we are soul mates. I'm not ready to prove to myself that otherwise is true.
Nobody here is going to tell you to magnify your wife's flaws or to stop loving her. But the point of the process here is to REATTRACT her. You can't convince, cajole, beg, plead, reason or anything else with her to repair this relationship. Your only chance is to become the person you want to be. An ATTRACTIVE person. Nobody wants to be married to a mopey, begging, needy, crying mess. Nobody. So it's time to stop being depressed! there are medicines out there, but I believe there's no better way than GALGALGAL
I know I'm supposed to detach. But I am having a hard time with that. I just love her. More than ever before. All the things that used to bug me about her before have disappeared. I can do the "Act as if" because it's acting, and down inside I am sad and wanting to be with her. But detaching means to actually let her go. To give up. No way. I just can't do that. this whole thing is supposed to be about getting her back, right? why do I have to detach? Can't I keep my love for her strong, even if it is hidden?
Where does it say that you have to stop loving her when you detach? That's not what it's sbout. It's about learning to love and prioritize YOU. She won't be ready to love you until you can love yourself again. And there is no way to do that until you detach yourself and your being from her, emotionally.
I don't get that one. Can't I love myself and still be focused on her and getting her back?
Yes. You can. But look in the mirror. Really look deep. Is the person you are today the person you strive to be? When you wake up in the morning, do you believe that THIS is your BEST you?
My guess is that if you just joined here, your answer is no. You already claimed to be depressed. But I'm guessing there are lots of other improvements you'd like to make. In your confidence. In your appearance. In your relationships. And so on.
That's why the focus should be on YOU. No matter what anybody tells you, there is nothing you can say to convince your wife to stay. Nothing. To be clear: NOTHING. The only thing you can DO is become the best GABS possible.
Hey gabs
Your post is almost exactly the same as mine I could be re reading my posts here
The only difference is at the moment my W is happy to stay in the same house I guess for stability of the kids and I think she know t is going to be very expensive moving
We have been in separate beds in different rooms since she dropped the B it is strange saying good night to her and then going upstairs as she stays d/stairs in the office that we are converting to a bedroom ...my junk pso I guess I have to move it .
Detaching is very difficult I will not kid you I have been her for a couple of months and the help you get is fantastic sometimes you will fight against it believing that you ha the answers but in my experience so far eveyting I have tried has not worked find things ro do to take your mind off this
I am so sorry you are here but you are amongst manŷ people who really care
Speak again
Gary
Thanks. it does help to hear from someone in a similar situation. however the hardest part right now is that my W wants to get into separate houses asap. you are lucky that yours realized that she can't handle the financial burden of being in her own house and she agreed to just have separate bed rooms. I would give anything for that. I would be able to breathe again. I think I could do pretty well following the 37 rules and all that if we were under the same roof and I wasn't stressing about finances, and I would have more of an opportunity to show her I am changing. So I feel like the "moving out" thing is something I am really holding out against. But maybe the answer is, since she feels so strongly about it, I have to let it go. maybe I will lose the house because of this. but what can i do... I can't make her stay, and if I really fight it then the lawyers will get involved and it will go south fast and I think there will be zero chance to reconcile.
we were at a marriage counselor today and the counselor suggested some 3rd options, like keeping the house as shared and each of us alternating each week, who lives here with the kids. Someone also suggested building a small 2nd house on the property..... but I tell you she keeps saying "I just need to get into my own space where I can make my own decisions and be my own person...." and she doesn't want to compromise. She just wants out, and the sooner the better, for these reasons:
--Once we get under two roofs, I will realize this is over and I will stop wanting her back.
--the kids won't have a long drawn out process of separating. do it quick, get it overwith (i completely disagree here, I think the kids will be better off with a slower transition so they have a chance to process and prepare).
--she will be able to stop feeling guilty every time she sees me (out of sight, out of mind... geesh!)
so i think if i follow the idea here, I have to stop resisting the move out.
Yes I agree the help here is by far better than regular counseling, where you just speak your mind but they cannot give you direction.
Sorry you are here, we all are. But these changes will make you in to a much better person, only a fool would want to leave.
Praying for you!
thanks for the prayers. and I love "only a fool would want to leave." I have thought something similar... I'm turning into a person that she would be dumb not to come back to. But I guess I just have to accept that it takes time for her to even look at me, let alone be convinced the changes are real and long lasting.
Hey gabs
Your post is almost exactly the same as mine I could be re reading my posts here
The only difference is at the moment my W is happy to stay in the same house I guess for stability of the kids and I think she know t is going to be very expensive moving
We have been in separate beds in different rooms since she dropped the B it is strange saying good night to her and then going upstairs as she stays d/stairs in the office that we are converting to a bedroom ...my junk pso I guess I have to move it .
Detaching is very difficult I will not kid you I have been her for a couple of months and the help you get is fantastic sometimes you will fight against it believing that you ha the answers but in my experience so far eveyting I have tried has not worked find things ro do to take your mind off this
I am so sorry you are here but you are amongst manŷ people who really care
Speak again
Gary
Thanks. it does help to hear from someone in a similar situation. however the hardest part right now is that my W wants to get into separate houses asap. you are lucky that yours realized that she can't handle the financial burden of being in her own house and she agreed to just have separate bed rooms. I would give anything for that. I would be able to breathe again. I think I could do pretty well following the 37 rules and all that if we were under the same roof and I wasn't stressing about finances, and I would have more of an opportunity to show her I am changing. So I feel like the "moving out" thing is something I am really holding out against. But maybe the answer is, since she feels so strongly about it, I have to let it go. maybe I will lose the house because of this. but what can i do... I can't make her stay, and if I really fight it then the lawyers will get involved and it will go south fast and I think there will be zero chance to reconcile.
we were at a marriage counselor today and the counselor suggested some 3rd options, like keeping the house as shared and each of us alternating each week, who lives here with the kids. Someone also suggested building a small 2nd house on the property..... but I tell you she keeps saying "I just need to get into my own space where I can make my own decisions and be my own person...." and she doesn't want to compromise. She just wants out, and the sooner the better, for these reasons:
--Once we get under two roofs, I will realize this is over and I will stop wanting her back.
--the kids won't have a long drawn out process of separating. do it quick, get it overwith (i completely disagree here, I think the kids will be better off with a slower transition so they have a chance to process and prepare).
--she will be able to stop feeling guilty every time she sees me (out of sight, out of mind... geesh!)
so i think if i follow the idea here, I have to stop resisting the move out.
Before you talk about how lucky he is, have a read through his threads and you can see how hard it is to detach and stop pursuing when you actually live with someone. Change is not easy; and it's especially difficult while you're living with someone trying to leave.
Azzork,
Who are you and where's your thread? Do you have your own thread somewhere in here?
Azzork,
Who are you and where's your thread? Do you have your own thread somewhere in here?
I've been lurking for a while but finally decided to register and offer my help.
I've decided not to post the sorry details of my life right now.
Azzork,
Who are you and where's your thread? Do you have your own thread somewhere in here?
I've been lurking for a while but finally decided to register and offer my help.
I've decided not to post the sorry details of my life right now.
Ummm...apparently you are experiencing some M problems, and you don't want to seek help from some wise vets. M'kay....
Just weird to offer help to others when you are a newbie who's not sharing his experience/story and we cannot tell if you are DBing correctly or not because you are not sharing your story here.
That's fine. Your choice.
Be careful in the forums...because I am not too confident that you have DBing concept down correctly or applying them correctly. Heck, I don't know if you even read the DR book from front to back...then rinse and repeat.
Just odd.
Just because you are under separate roofs doesn't mean you can't do the Sandi37. I printed them out and made copies. You wouldn't believe everywhere I have copies. Though me and my h are under different roofs I am following them. When we are together I implementt the ones for "still living together". I read them every day several times a day. I start to feel I am losing my hope courage everything I read them for strength. Believe me SHE WILL NOTICE. When my h left he said there was no hope. I never paid attenetion etc etc. Yes we had problems and yes this was/is a huge wake-up call for me. He does notice the changes and he notices when I slip and slide. Does he say anything, no. But his interactions change.
Draw your strength from here. Vent, yell, cry, whatever. Nobody here will judge. You may read something that hurts you, but it's meant to help you. That's why I said read and re-read until you listen to what they say, not hear what they say.
As part of this process, my wife and i are in separate rooms. I agreed to move into my office.
It just made more sense. I need to keep the office for working purposes.
I just basically moved my bed into the office.
If she was going to move into a different room and I kept the MBR, there wasn't really anywhere for her to go.
This would have prompted her to move OUT sooner, which I have been resisting and I still don't want to happen.
She still wants to move out and get her own place soon, but the fact that I moved into the office took the pressure off for a short while.
I've been reading on this forum that the LBS is supposed to keep the MBR in a situation like this, and also keep the house, while the one who is leaving should be the one to move out of the bedroom and move out of the house.
Did I screw up?
There's not much I can do, it would be nearly impossible to suggest that I take the MBR back at this point and it would push her out of the house faster if I tried to advocate for that.
Thanks.
Stick with one thread until 100 posts threads merged- Cadet
The reason that we tell you not to move out of the MBR or the house is that once you move - reversing it is very difficult.
DO NOT MOVE OUT OF THE HOUSE - yes she should move.
It can sometimes hurt your legal standing that you move and it is also co-dependent and enabling because you are NOT STANDING up for yourself and letting her push you around.
Also stick to one thread please.
My wife just took the kids to go look at a house. She asked me first if I minded that they come with her. I thought about the concepts here, took a deep breath, and said it would be fine.
They are there looking at the house now. I'm so filled with emotions I can barely breathe.
I was glad to find this website but now I'm questioning everything at this moment. The truth is, I just want her back. I finally realize what I was doing wrong and I could really show her what it's like to be loved if I could just have a chance. These changes I'm making, they are good for me, but I have to be honest. I'm doing it for her.
It is so hard for me to "go along" with what she is doing and stop resisting. I just want to cry, beg, promise. I realize that has not worked but that is what I feel inside and it is so hard to pretend otherwise, especially when it seems like it is enabling her to move forward. I don't really want to "get a life." All I can do is think about her. I have gone out several times since she announced the split, and it's difficult to have fun. People say "hi how you doing?" and if I'm honest I have to say that I'm doing pretty shitty. If I go to a concert, every song reminds me of her and I cry, and I just can't wait to get back home into my hole, where I can think about her and what I can do to get her back. The only thing that keeps me going is hope. This website offered some hope but the suggestions are so against what I want to do and so difficult to pretend when feel like I'm being eaten alive inside. Then I read a thread where someone has been trying this and it hasn't helped. And that makes me wonder if all this is worth it. I realize there are no guarantees... But are there any success stories/threads I could read? Maybe that would help me. I have read a lot about what I'm supposed to do, but I haven't seen anything that describes her thought process and what enables her to start rethinking the track she's on. I've heard that she has a case of "the grass is greener on the other side" and she has to taste the grass over there before she can realize it's not any better. I would love to read a story or two about someone who let their wife buy another house without resistance.... and somehow things turned around afterwards. Otherwise I am just questioning all of this and I just want to go back into my hole.
Right now they are over looking at a house. Why is this happening? I'm a good person. I realize I didn't love her the way I should have but I was good to her and I took care of her. I'm a good person and I deserve another chance. After 30 years! And kids are involved. This is so crazy, nuts, sad, depressing. I swear I would do ANYTHING for just one more chance and I would hit a HOME RUN. I know it more than anything. I was never ready to really love her but I am now!
I supposed this site would tell me, when they get back I'm supposed to just put a smile on my face and pretend that I'm happy that they went to look at a new house while in reality my entire world is crumbling around me.
Sorry for the negativity. I'm just having a hard time and there's no other place I can vent.
Gabs,
I'm so sorry you are here. However, it is the best place to be in a horrid situation. YOU will get through this-know that much.
Please don't doubt that you are a good person. We all makes mistakes and often times we do the best we can with the tools we have in the box. We are all flawed and some are more self aware than others. Use this time to focus on you and know that your self worth (believe it or not) is not tied to your W. And please know you aren't "enabling" her-you have to let her go. She has to see for herself what she thinks about said grass. She has to see for herself what "life" has to offer her on this path and life will continue on for you as well. Don't miss out. Take advantage of this time as Cadet says.
You have to allow yourself to feel the emotions. Some days I still have a good cry and I can count how many times I have cried in the 5 years prior to BD. I could make some song suggestions for you:) However, maybe listen to something else right now until you feel a bit better. Are you a sports fan? I love sports radio.
I know it is difficult. We all do. However, focus on you and your kids. What do you enjoy doing? I promise there will come a day very soon that something makes you laugh uncontrollably or you relish a moment you may not have been able to before. Keep your eyes open.
Hang in there. It does get better!
thanks. what makes me feel good is making music. I'm a musician and music has healed me many times in my life. Since she dropped the bomb, I have been writing, writing, writing. I have songs I would love to develop, record, and put on youtube. And I think people would like them. But the songs would reveal my lack of letting go. they would show my true emotions. so if I put a song up on youtube, and W sees it, she will know I'm still hurting and wishing. Which according to this site, is detrimental to achieving my goal. But in my heart, I feel like if she heard these songs it would reach into her heart and crack open the heart that she says she has "shut down." I so badly want to share these songs with her.
Here is a song I wrote for her over 20 years ago. so sad to hear it now because it's about spending the rest of my life with her, which I wanted to do back then and I still do.
(I hope I'm not blowing my cover by sharing that)
I have some new songs now I'd really like to work on but they all would fall into the category of asking her to give me another chance which I know is a no-no here so I guess I just have to keep it all inside.
You need to "act as if" in order to change the Dynamics of your situation, based on your responses you sound very deparate and clingy which is not attractive and is simply pushing her further away. At the end of the day it is HER choice to want to be with you or not. So become someone she would like to be with, be mysterious, get a haircut, take care of yourself, women like a man that's confident, successful, and has passion for something.
Eventually she will notice the changes you have made and will reconsider, this take a lot of patience, prayer and determination.
Good luck and keep posting, sending prayers your way!
thanks. i did get a haircut. i've changed a lot of things. cleaning up around the house more. looking her in the eye when we talk. listening to what she says. seems to have no affect.
one thing I don't get... wouldn't it be OK to take the middle ground a little? can't I show her that I'm doing OK but also that I'm sad she's leaving? it is normal to have a mixture of emotions. she told me yesterday that she thought I would be fine with this because when we were together it seemed like I wasn't happy with her. so if I go with the "act as if" plan that confirms with her that I am glad she's leaving. I want her to know I don't want her to leave and any indication I gave before that I wanted out was an error. I want in. I feel inclined to occasionally remind her that I am not happy with what is happening and I want her back, not in a "groveling" tone but just as a matter of fact way of speaking. just so she doesn't get the idea that I'm happy about what is happening. isn't there some benefit to her knowing that I love her and want her? Some of these things I just don't get.
Gabs..... breathe. You are in the middle of the hurricane and all the emotions are flooding you all at once, its suffocating ... feels like your chest will cave in or explode depending on the exhale or inhale motion .. I remember all to well.
You asked for some success stories, there are plenty here, might not be the successes you are looking for, its more about a broken individual who saved themselves from the rubble and came out stronger and better than ever.
However ... if you need a story where a man who found himself lost and broken after his wife left 'to get some space' ... ended up having an affair that lasted nearly 18 months in total, Found this forum and took to heart what the vets would advise (Not always perfectly) turned his situation, his life around...became a MUCH better man than when he entered into this ... was weeks away from signing final documents for divorce only to have his W stop and ask to work on the M, and currently have been doing so ... about a month or so away from moving back in with each other ... Then here ... I am one of those stories.
Reading along with your sitch ... it drips with FEAR ... and thats totally acceptable, given the time vested you have lost track of Gabs, the one who your W fell for and stayed with for that long. She did not all the sudden wake up and decide to bolt, I assure you ... this has been gradually going on for a bit .. and you will have to gradually change and become 'Gabs 2.0' as I have phrased my metamorphosis.
I get how painful this is .. I also remember how a$$ backwards the approach is. Thing is .. begging and pleading paints you as needy and pathetic, no woman is attracted to that .. nor can she respect that .... the key is to become a man she will respect, the painful part is letting her go a bit in order to do that. Someone here shared the visual of walking your dog on a long leash, he darts off into the woods and gets all tangled, by you holding on to that leash so tightly there is no escape ... let go of the leash and the dog would be able to run about and return ..... outside of referring to the W as a dog .. there is a good parallel here .... the tighter you hold on the faster and harder she will run.
You have to start the process, the trick now is not to save the M, its not to make things worse.
thanks. i did get a haircut. i've changed a lot of things. cleaning up around the house more. looking her in the eye when we talk. listening to what she says. seems to have no affect.
Keep in mind, all these 'changes' you have made are very new, and she will assume they are just to 'trick' her back into that unhappy marriage she is running from. Takes time for them to trust these changes are real and will stick ... PATIENCE
one thing I don't get... wouldn't it be OK to take the middle ground a little? can't I show her that I'm doing OK but also that I'm sad she's leaving? it is normal to have a mixture of emotions.
Not if it shows weakness... remember .. she has to respect you .. not pity you, her coming back to wipe your tears is not her coming back attracted to you wanting to fix this marriage.
she told me yesterday that she thought I would be fine with this because when we were together it seemed like I wasn't happy with her. so if I go with the "act as if" plan that confirms with her that I am glad she's leaving. I want her to know I don't want her to leave and any indication I gave before that I wanted out was an error.
The attitude you want to have here is "This is not my choice nor what I wanted ... but I will be ok.
I want in. I feel inclined to occasionally remind her that I am not happy with what is happening and I want her back, not in a "groveling" tone but just as a matter of fact way of speaking. just so she doesn't get the idea that I'm happy about what is happening. isn't there some benefit to her knowing that I love her and want her? Some of these things I just don't get.
The reply echos what I just said ... as a LBH you simply say "This is not what I want, but I respect your decision" You end the conversation ... walk away as you have something important to do and let her start thinking about her decsions.
The faster you get onboard with this the easier it will be ... read about .. many members do try to pick and choose what they want and it simply does not work and sets them back
Read up on Sandi's WW threads .. alot of great information on where your W truly is mentally ...knowledge is power
Hello Gabs,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
It is easy to be conflicted regarding what to do next when you have so many emotions and thoughts going through your head!
It would be extremely helpful to know what your next move should be. Please call me to discuss our program at 303-444-7004.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
I understand the basic principles here and the reasons behind them. However I am having a hard time with the rigidness and extreme nature of the rules.
For example I realize that a it's not good to grovel, beg, cry, because that shows weakness and she doesn't want to be with a weak person.
But why is it bad to apologize? I personally have been able to see much more clearly since my wife dropped the bomb what I was doing to make her feel unloved. I feel bad about it. I want to apologize. And I think apologizing and showing remorse, would remove some of the negativity she feels towards me. And it would show that I recognize my failures, which is clearly step 1 in correcting them. Why would I not want to show her that I took step 1 ?
Here's another one. Why do I have to hide my 180 changes. I want her to notice them. Is it so bad if I wait to go for a run until she is home so she notices that I'm exercising more? I understand you don't want to go over the top and do everything right in her face and say "see all these things I'm changing?" all the time. But it seems like it would be fine to passively do things in a way that she notices. And I understand that she won't believe the changes are real if I'm just doing them to get her back... but isn't there another side to that argument? Isn't there a part of her that would be impressed that I love her so much that I'm willing to make all these changes for her? I mean, part of the problem is that she thinks I didn't really love her and give her attention. But by making all these changes isn't that a way of showing her that I really do love her and I'm willing to do just about anything for her? They say to put yourself in her shoes. If I was breaking up with someone and they changed their life around because they so badly wanted to be with me, I would be impressed and I would say "wow I guess he really does love me."
I realize it's *better* for her to notice the changes on her own, but I don't see why it's bad to make sure she knows what they are.
Here's another one. I have found several letters my wife wrote to me, that say how much she loves me, and even though we have problems she is sure we are soul mates. I would like to show her these letters. I think it would help snap her out of it, to read her own words. She still loves me deep inside but she is hiding that love from herself. I think reading these letters would crack open that wall she's put up between he mind and her heart. But I'm sure that showing the letters to her would be seen as a step backwards because I'm obviously trying to get her to change her mind, which is what I'm not supposed to do.
I realize this is a no-no but I would like to tell her how I am a different person. I would like to tell her that I have really identified many things that I was doing wrong before, things that I never could see clearly until now. I want to tell her that for the first time I "get it" I realize I was making her feel unloved, and I want to show her what it feels like to be loved. I realize it won't make her come back right away, but if I plant seeds in her mind to this effect, it's better to have those seeds there in her mind than not, I would think. Coupled with her noticing changes I've made, I think it is a good compliment. I think I could talk about my changes and how I would treat her differently without begging or groveling, just in a matter of fact way,
Here's another.... I'm a musician and with all the emotions I've had in the last month I"m sure you can imagine that some songs are coming out. I have songs about being sorry. I have songs about what life is like without you. I have songs about wanting you back. I think a lot of popular songs came out of experiences like this. Would it be so horrible to make a youtube video of some of my songs and hope that she sees it on my facebook page, or even ask her to check it out? I mean it's kind of impressive to write a nice song about someone. If someone wrote a song about me I would think, "wow, his emotions are really real. I guess he really does love me a lot." And they could spark memories of good times we have had.
Here's another one I have a hard time with. Why is it bad to do nice things for her? Is it really bad, if I'm making coffee, to make her a cup and bring it to her? I mean, she has some negativity towards me obviously. I think it would be a good thing to try to erase some of that negativity by being helpful and nice. I feel like the more good experiences we can have, even if they are just having a nice conversation, or making a cup of coffee, before it's too late, the better. If I just keep a distance then the only memories she has of me are the bad things that are filling her head at the moment. Obviously I don't mean to go overboard and buy her roses every day and kiss her feet. I'm just saying, if I'm making a cup of coffee for myself, why not make two and bring her one?
I guess I'm trying to say that some of these rules seem a little rigid. I'm no expert but I think a little bit of doing nice things, letting her know that I want her back, telling her what I've learned and how i've changed, making sure she notices the changes I'm making, and I do these things subtly and I don't go overboard are they really so detrimental to my cause?
I've heard here that you want to show her that you are a strong confident person. Doesn't a strong confident person stand up and fight for what he wants? If I show her that I'm working really hard, changing my life around, have identified my failures, and I present this from a position of strength, doesn't that show I'm a strong person, that she would like to be with again?
I guess this is my "questioning some of this" post.... I just read an article that said, the further you go down the path to D, the less chance there is for reconciliation. So I feel like there's a ticking time bomb. I feel that if I just keep my distance and don't do nice things for her occasionally and I don't make sure she knows how it would be different and how I've changed, that I could miss the boat.
Because she will not see the nice things you are doing or saying. Everything that you do for her will be seen as a weak, it will all go unnoticed. She is in the "too little too late" mentality right now. She will as see them as an attempt to manipulate her.
I know the "rules" are rigid but they do work. Like I said my H doesn't verbalize he notices the changes, but his interactions with me change.
Go see your doctor. Get on anti depressants if you need them. They do help clear your head, help you to stay calm and focused, and help you on your path.
gabs -
Think back to high school. If there was some girl that you didn't like that had the hots for you, how would you react if she wrote you a love song? How about if she came up to you and said "don't you like my new glasses?" "Isn't my new shirt cool?" "You know, I started working out..." "I really do love you, you know." Would those things turn you on to her? What if you left for summer break and came back and she was toned and dressed better and wore contacts and had her hair done nicely? You might be into her then, right?
How about another way - if you put a frog in cold water and slowly heat it to a boil, the frog won't notice and will burn itself to death. But if you drop it in boiling water, it will jump right out.
My point is that if you foist every change on her, she isn't going to notice.
Nobody is saying to be a jerk. If you make coffee and you think she wants one, fine. But if you drive 40 minutes to get her favorite coffee, that's a no-no.
Ultimately it's not about doing what you think is RIGHT. It's about doing what WORKS.
Gabs,
I know how you feel. Everything inside of you is telling you to pursue this woman, to show her that you're willing to change, to prove to her what a good man you are, to prove to her how much you love her because certainly that will melt through the ice and bring her back to you. It *has* to work! How could it not?
These rules here don't make any sense -- how could moving forward and giving her space bring you back together? Doesn't that just give her permission to leave you sooner? Doesn't it seem like you're just endorsing what she's doing and playing into her story that you didn't love her enough because you're willing to give up so easily?
The other thing I'm sure you think is that your situation is different. Your time together, the circumstances of your marriage, the bond you share together is just different and more special than all these other situations. The rules don't apply to you because your marriage and how you feel is special. Plus you're a good man! It's not like you're a bum who doesn't support his family or lays around the house drunk all day! You're a good provider and a good father so why is this happening?
Therefore, pursuing your wife, and proving that you love her, and demonstrating your changes to her MUST be the path back, it simply must. It makes all the logical sense in the world.
Do I have that right?
Your situation IS different from everyone else's, and your wife IS different than other walk away wives. However, there are literally thousands of people who have come through this site over the years -- thousands. 100% of them think what you think and tried to do what you do.
When your spouse wants to leave and you want to stay, the reaction of the LBS is 100% formulaic and consistent. It is utterly predictable. AND IT NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER EVEN IN A MILLION YEARS WORKS. WHAT YOU WANT TO DO WILL NOT GET YOUR WIFE BACK IT WILL PUSH HER FARTHER AWAY.
WHAT YOU WANT TO DO WILL NOT GET YOUR WIFE BACK, IT WILL PUSH HER FARTHER AWAY.
WHAT YOU WANT TO DO WILL NOT GET YOUR WIFE BACK, IT WILL PUSH HER FARTHER AWAY.
The thing that is common among you and everyone else here is that your spouse is "done". When people are "done", the way they think and act is also formulaic and 100% predictable. The "I love you but I'm not in love with you" speech that so many people get is delivered almost verbatim among a population of people who have never met each other.
The way that pursuit is responded to is consistent across people from all different ethnic, cultural and religious backgrounds.
When someone is done, they want out, they do NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT want to be pursued.
They are not open to seeing your changes
They are not open to having your love proven to them
They are not open to being reminded of the past by reading their old love letters
They are closed off. Your attempts to tear the wall down have only one response -- to build the wall higher.
This is 100% predictable and repeatable again and again and again which is why the rules are the way they are.
The rules are rigid because you cannot be "a little bit of a pursuer". You cannot "peacock your changes only a little bit". Either you are pursuing or you aren't. Either you are making your changes believable or you aren't. Half measures will not work. You have to put all your chips in the middle and be "all in" or you're not really doing it.
You asked about success. There is no guarantee of success. As Winston Churchill said of democracy, this is the worst system there is except for all the alternatives.
Most people here do not get their spouses back.
Why? Because by the time you get here, you are already past the tipping point. Your marriage is already over and you are trying to salvage something that has already escaped you.
Secondly, most people LACK THE DISCIPLINE TO FOLLOW THE RULES. They keep backsliding, or convincing themselves that it's okay to break the rules, and then building elaborate justifications and narratives for why it's okay, and they continue to sabotage themselves over and over and over again.
The reason the success rate isn't higher isn't because the program doesn't work, it's because it's too hard for most people to do consistently because they don't have the discipline for it.
I have been on this site for 4 years and I've seen a lot of cases come and go. There are absolutely many great successes to be found here where the person DID have the discipline to do it right, followed the rules, and got their spouse back. Many many cases.
In other situations, people do everything right and still do NOT get their spouse back. There are no guarantees.
My other observation over 4 years is that everyone comes away from this site a better person. It is an excellent environment to journal, to process your feelings, to work through this transition in your life among an amazing group of people who can not just sympathize but empathize. They know *exactly* what you're going through and how you're feeling, and more and more of them arrive every day. You are not alone. I have made lifelong friends here.
For my own part, I did get my spouse back and we enjoyed another three years of marriage. At the end of that three years, I was able to leave the marriage without regret or guilt, because I *knew* that I brought it. That I was the best husband and father that I could be, and became a man that only a fool would leave. Aside from the birth of my kids that feeling is the greatest gift I have received in my life -- to have a clear conscious about my role in things and to have no regrets.
This site and this program can do that for you, and you take that with you no matter what happens in your marriage. If your situation does not work out, you will take your learning and your new relationship skills, and your changes into a new relationship with a great degree of confidence because you now KNOW you have the skills to make it work. That new relationship may be with your current wife, or may be with someone new, but either way a great deal of happiness awaits you at the end of the tunnel. You can't see, feel, or believe it where you are now, but I promise it's there and it's waiting for you.
Acc
Thanks ACC,
this is really hard. I do understand the principles. But as you say, I feel compelled to do some of the no-no's. I will tone it down and not grovel.
I just met with a lawyer, and it really scared me. She said divorces almost always end up worse than either party thought they would. Even when people start out with good intentions, it almost always goes bad. Bad for the kids, bad for both of the spouses. Bad for everyone.
I have to do everything in my power to avoid this from happening. I have to plant some seeds in her heart and in her mind to give her some awareness of how much I love her and how much better it could be together, than what we are facing if we D. I just have to. Maybe I'm wrong but my heart says to do it and all my life I have followed my heart.
For example, she just went to look at a house yesterday. She came back and said, "yikes. it was in bad shape. I realize now that whoever moves out is not going to have a very nice place to live. So I guess since I'm the one making this all happen, I need to be the one to do that." Another thing, we have an electric car, that she loves. We have discussed that we will probably have to sell it because it can't drive long distances and we she won't have a backup for trips anymore (my car). So she will have to give up the car she loves and live in a crappy house. Also she has acknoweledged that money is going to be tight, so vacations and even simple things like going to the movies will have to be cut. I would like to just point out to her that she doesn't have to give up all these things. The alternative is to say with me, and accept the new found love I want to give her, and she can keep the car and the vacations, and go to the movies as much as she wants, and get great backrubs, and the kids won't be at risk, and we will have money for college...
Shes about to go on a trip for 5 days and spend a lot of time in the car. I feel like if I write her a short letter to plant some seeds in her heart and mind, and remind her there is an alternative to the yucky plan she's on of a yucky house, no money to spend, etc.. the words I say will echo in her mind while she's driving and talking with her friend when she gets there, and she will contemplate these things a little more than she would if I do nothing.
I know you will all say I'm wrong. And perhaps I am. But I am so compelled to do this, I think I can keep the basic principles in mind and not beg and not grovel in my approach it will not do so much harm, and might do a tiny bit of good. I really need her to just contemplate the two paths.... and at this point she is not even considering the path back home. I feel like if she can take one second to just step back and see there is a choice and one is pretty yucky, that's all I want is for her to realize the repercussions and realize there is a choice still. Not asking her to change her mind right now... just planting seeds that would hopefully get her to think about it a little more before she jumps into it.
Gabs
Breathe .... and I will try to tell you .. please listen. Ever see someone who is drowning in quicksand, the more they struggle the faster they sink? This my friend is you right now ... all THAT ^^^^^ ... you are pursuing ... DO NOT DO THIS ... and for Heavens sake you can write that letter but don't you dare give it to her nor let her read it .. write it and burn it.
I am trying to give you a rope and pull you out ... you can grab on to the rope ... or ... you can do as others have .. not listen to the advice and be in far worse shape here in a few months. Your choice my friend.
Lets look at what your wife is currently looking at. Remember ... she does not need you to point this stuff out ... she just had the fantasy of a new house (this goes with the new life she has been plotting in her head for some time) Well ... chink in the fantasy #1 ... house was in rough shape. Chink #2 ... that car she loves will have to go. Chink #3 $$$ will not be like they were ... see the trend here, just let these little glimpses of reality sink in for her, allow her to see them .. all this time YOU need to work on YOU. By you pursing and putting pressure on this ... she will become focused on escaping, however if she is not feeling trapped then the urgency to escape is less, gives you time to start doing what you need to do... what we all have subscribed to here .. GAL, 180, PMA, detach.
Gabs no one can force you to do it this way .. if you do not want the help that's cool, however ... remember you came here.. .WHY>? To save your M? ... or to tell us we are all wrong in believing in this system ... the same one that I happened to use and actually saved my M. I am here to tell you ... that last post .. if you do go that route, its a mistake. Regardless I and the people here will help you because we have been there, we know the pain ... we have already walked miles of the journey you are about to embark on.
Gabs,
I know how you feel. Everything inside of you is telling you to pursue this woman, to show her that you're willing to change, to prove to her what a good man you are, to prove to her how much you love her because certainly that will melt through the ice and bring her back to you. It *has* to work! How could it not?
These rules here don't make any sense -- how could moving forward and giving her space bring you back together? Doesn't that just give her permission to leave you sooner? Doesn't it seem like you're just endorsing what she's doing and playing into her story that you didn't love her enough because you're willing to give up so easily?
The other thing I'm sure you think is that your situation is different. Your time together, the circumstances of your marriage, the bond you share together is just different and more special than all these other situations. The rules don't apply to you because your marriage and how you feel is special. Plus you're a good man! It's not like you're a bum who doesn't support his family or lays around the house drunk all day! You're a good provider and a good father so why is this happening?
Therefore, pursuing your wife, and proving that you love her, and demonstrating your changes to her MUST be the path back, it simply must. It makes all the logical sense in the world.
Do I have that right?
Your situation IS different from everyone else's, and your wife IS different than other walk away wives. However, there are literally thousands of people who have come through this site over the years -- thousands. 100% of them think what you think and tried to do what you do.
When your spouse wants to leave and you want to stay, the reaction of the LBS is 100% formulaic and consistent. It is utterly predictable. AND IT NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER EVEN IN A MILLION YEARS WORKS. WHAT YOU WANT TO DO WILL NOT GET YOUR WIFE BACK IT WILL PUSH HER FARTHER AWAY.
WHAT YOU WANT TO DO WILL NOT GET YOUR WIFE BACK, IT WILL PUSH HER FARTHER AWAY.
WHAT YOU WANT TO DO WILL NOT GET YOUR WIFE BACK, IT WILL PUSH HER FARTHER AWAY.
The thing that is common among you and everyone else here is that your spouse is "done". When people are "done", the way they think and act is also formulaic and 100% predictable. The "I love you but I'm not in love with you" speech that so many people get is delivered almost verbatim among a population of people who have never met each other.
The way that pursuit is responded to is consistent across people from all different ethnic, cultural and religious backgrounds.
When someone is done, they want out, they do NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT want to be pursued.
They are not open to seeing your changes
They are not open to having your love proven to them
They are not open to being reminded of the past by reading their old love letters
They are closed off. Your attempts to tear the wall down have only one response -- to build the wall higher.
This is 100% predictable and repeatable again and again and again which is why the rules are the way they are.
The rules are rigid because you cannot be "a little bit of a pursuer". You cannot "peacock your changes only a little bit". Either you are pursuing or you aren't. Either you are making your changes believable or you aren't. Half measures will not work. You have to put all your chips in the middle and be "all in" or you're not really doing it.
You asked about success. There is no guarantee of success. As Winston Churchill said of democracy, this is the worst system there is except for all the alternatives.
Most people here do not get their spouses back.
Why? Because by the time you get here, you are already past the tipping point. Your marriage is already over and you are trying to salvage something that has already escaped you.
Secondly, most people LACK THE DISCIPLINE TO FOLLOW THE RULES. They keep backsliding, or convincing themselves that it's okay to break the rules, and then building elaborate justifications and narratives for why it's okay, and they continue to sabotage themselves over and over and over again.
The reason the success rate isn't higher isn't because the program doesn't work, it's because it's too hard for most people to do consistently because they don't have the discipline for it.
I have been on this site for 4 years and I've seen a lot of cases come and go. There are absolutely many great successes to be found here where the person DID have the discipline to do it right, followed the rules, and got their spouse back. Many many cases.
In other situations, people do everything right and still do NOT get their spouse back. There are no guarantees.
My other observation over 4 years is that everyone comes away from this site a better person. It is an excellent environment to journal, to process your feelings, to work through this transition in your life among an amazing group of people who can not just sympathize but empathize. They know *exactly* what you're going through and how you're feeling, and more and more of them arrive every day. You are not alone. I have made lifelong friends here.
For my own part, I did get my spouse back and we enjoyed another three years of marriage. At the end of that three years, I was able to leave the marriage without regret or guilt, because I *knew* that I brought it. That I was the best husband and father that I could be, and became a man that only a fool would leave. Aside from the birth of my kids that feeling is the greatest gift I have received in my life -- to have a clear conscious about my role in things and to have no regrets.
This site and this program can do that for you, and you take that with you no matter what happens in your marriage. If your situation does not work out, you will take your learning and your new relationship skills, and your changes into a new relationship with a great degree of confidence because you now KNOW you have the skills to make it work. That new relationship may be with your current wife, or may be with someone new, but either way a great deal of happiness awaits you at the end of the tunnel. You can't see, feel, or believe it where you are now, but I promise it's there and it's waiting for you.
Acc
Wow, this is deep, thank you for that! Made me want to cry then I felt joy!
Gabs,
Why would you want to IGNORE golden advice from wise vets who have trod the path before you and divorce busted their M's??!
If you persist in willfully ignoring advice here and doing it YOUR way, then be forewarned that you are doing it at your OWN peril...and the M will implode faster than any old ratty building.
Your choice.
I can feel the vapors of your desperation emitting from this computer screen and I am feeling extremely SUFFOCATED...even though I am not your wife!
Lose that fear and really START applying the DB principles for real.
Quit saying, "but..."
The guidelines are there for a reason because they actually WORK. Not some willy nilly rules that one makes up off the cuff in the Lord of the Flies jungle.
And you would be well advised to read up Cali's threads as your homework assignment. He's over in the MLC forum.
Gabs
My suggestion is to listen to the board and the vets. Wonka and Caliguy have been great resources for me.
#1. Get control of your emotions - NOW. Wash your face with cold water, run, anything but your emotions are controlling you now and making a bad situation worse. You control your emotions. If necessary, go to the doctor for some anti anxiety or depression medication. They will help.
#2. Let her do her thing - no pursuit - none
She will quickly realize that life without you will not be so rosy. Let me realize this for herself.
#3. Spend this time working on yourself, self help books, going out with friends, anything to get your focus off your situation. I know it feels like the end of the world but it is not. Try to focus on what is going right in your world. You will notice that many things are going well, look at them and be grateful.
#4, Man up - act with confidence, purpose and self respect. That will be key. Do not tell her what you are doing or why, just do it.
Keep posting friend and remember we are all on your side and have been in your shoes.
Hi Gabs. Sorry you are here my friend.
I'm not a vet and yes, I did it all wrong in the beginning. You have some excellent help here and in the early days when you find this site you dot want to listen to them. You want to save your M. Trust me, from my own personal experience. Listen to the experts. Your plan will not work. Do what these great people are telling you. I know it doesn't sit well with you. It didn't sit well with me either but when I applied the advice they gave I felt better. Is my M recoverable? Not sure but right now that's not the focus. Strange to say that but the reality is your old M is dead. Focusing on you is the important bit here. Yes, you feel hurt, rejected and a whole plethora of other negative emotions. Sort that out first. The vets will talk you through the rest. You are receiving excellent advice. Apply it.
Good luck.
Gabs,
You are thrashing because you're panicking and making things worse and worse. Please take a breath and do nothing for 24 hours. Just 24 hours. That won't make a difference in convincing your wife how much you love her and how mistaken she is about what she wants. Just wait 24 hours before you react. Here are some more detailed comments on your post:
this is really hard. I do understand the principles. But as you say, I feel compelled to do some of the no-no's. I will tone it down and not grovel.
There is no "tone it down". You either do it, or you don't. As Yoda said "do or do not, there is no try".
I wrote in my last post about discipline and how most people really struggle with it. It's a lot like weight loss. Losing weight is no mystery, simply consume less calories than you burn. Don't need a PhD for that. If the solution is that easy why are so many people overweight? Because people are not good at being disciplined and denying themselves of what they want to do. Right now you have to go on an emotional diet and stop feeding yourself emotional candy bars with all this pursuing!
"Toning it down" is a half measure. Half measures do not work. You have to *stop* pursuing. Not just pursue less. You actually need to stop completely or this will not work and you will just prolong your suffering.
I just met with a lawyer, and it really scared me. She said divorces almost always end up worse than either party thought they would. Even when people start out with good intentions, it almost always goes bad. Bad for the kids, bad for both of the spouses. Bad for everyone.
I met with a lawyer who told me the same thing -- she "scared me straight" as it were and convinced me to keep working on my marriage even though my spider sense knew my wife was cheating on me. Good lawyers want you to stay married as a matter of ethics, so will scare you in a first meeting to give you incentive to keep trying to make it work. The picture the lawyer painted was 1000x worse than my actual divorce turned out. Divorce is not good. Divorce is not your choice. Divorce is completely survivable.
I have to do everything in my power to avoid this from happening.
True! Start by (1) Not pursuing, (2) act as if, (3) GAL and (4) follow all of Sandy's 37 rules religiously. If you want to do everything in your power to avoid this outcome, then that's what you have to do. Anything else is digging your hole deeper and deeper. You're like the kid at the beach who digs a hole in the sand through tremendous effort and then the hole collapses on him. That's where you're heading
I have to plant some seeds in her heart and in her mind to give her some awareness of how much I love her and how much better it could be together, than what we are facing if we D. I just have to. Maybe I'm wrong but my heart says to do it and all my life I have followed my heart.
Nope! NO NO NO NO NO. You cannot plant seeds in her heart. She is closed off to you. You cannot convince, cajole, beg, plead, influence, illustrate or elucidate. She will do the opposite and FORCE the opposite to work to get away.
For example, she just went to look at a house yesterday. She came back and said, "yikes. it was in bad shape. I realize now that whoever moves out is not going to have a very nice place to live. So I guess since I'm the one making this all happen, I need to be the one to do that." Another thing, we have an electric car, that she loves. We have discussed that we will probably have to sell it because it can't drive long distances and we she won't have a backup for trips anymore (my car). So she will have to give up the car she loves and live in a crappy house. Also she has acknoweledged that money is going to be tight, so vacations and even simple things like going to the movies will have to be cut.
Holy Cow! Look at that! She realized all these things WITHOUT YOU HAVING TO POINT THEM OUT TO HER. If you had insisted that any house she looks at will be crappy before she looked at them, what do you think would happen? Most WAS would continue to house search until they found an example to prove you wrong, and that would make your situation worse.
THEY HAVE TO LEARN THESE THINGS FOR THEMSELVES, YOU CANNOT TEACH THEM, YOU CANNOT SHOW THEM, YOU HAVE TO LET THEM WALK THE PATH. THEY'LL GET IT, IT JUST MAY NOT BE ON YOUR TIMELINE.
I would like to just point out to her that she doesn't have to give up all these things.
She knows, you don't have to tell her
The alternative is to say with me, and accept the new found love I want to give her, and she can keep the car and the vacations, and go to the movies as much as she wants, and get great backrubs, and the kids won't be at risk, and we will have money for college...
She knows, you don't have to tell her
Shes about to go on a trip for 5 days and spend a lot of time in the car. I feel like if I write her a short letter to plant some seeds in her heart and mind, and remind her there is an alternative to the yucky plan she's on of a yucky house, no money to spend, etc.. the words I say will echo in her mind while she's driving and talking with her friend when she gets there, and she will contemplate these things a little more than she would if I do nothing.
Nope. What will happen is she will roll her eyes, feel guilty, feel uncomfortable about your pursuit, start to hate how she's feeling, and then blame you for making her feel that way, and then she'll resent you more than she does already.
I promise promise promise that is exactly what will happen. Your words will only have that effect, no matter how beautiful they are.
I know you will all say I'm wrong. And perhaps I am. But I am so compelled to do this, I think I can keep the basic principles in mind and not beg and not grovel in my approach it will not do so much harm, and might do a tiny bit of good.
Nope, it will do no good and lots of harm
I really need her to just contemplate the two paths.... and at this point she is not even considering the path back home.
She spent hundreds of hours contemplating the two paths before she told you what she decided. Hundreds of hours. This has been well-contemplated and a decision has been rendered. No one does this because they wake up with a wild hair up their ass and then realize a few days later they did something dumb. It doesn't work that way. This has been agonized over and planned for months. Your words do not turn this around any more than you can stop a freight train by holding up a stop sign. It's completely ineffective.
I feel like if she can take one second to just step back and see there is a choice and one is pretty yucky
She knows. You can tell her one million times until you're blue in the face and she won't know it any more than she does now.
that's all I want is for her to realize the repercussions and realize there is a choice still.
Yes everyone knows that's what YOU want, including her. What does she want?
You're her husband, you love her, how can you support her in terms of pursuing what she wants, which is space and time away from you?
Are you man enough to support her and give her what she wants, or will you continue to insist on what you want like a petulant child? Sorry to be harsh, but please realize that by making this all about what you want and ignoring what she wants, you're feeding into the old pattern that is exactly what she wants to get away from.
You're not listening to her.
You're not respecting what she wants.
You are insisting that you know best and staging a campaign to prove it.
Not asking her to change her mind right now... just planting seeds that would hopefully get her to think about it a little more before she jumps into it.
Plant no seeds. She knows what her options are and they have been carefully considered. A decision has been rendered.
Your response will take time -- lots of time. Nothing will be turned around or resolved this month or next month. Relax, breathe, slow things down and for the love of all that is holy STOP PURSUING. NO MORE LETTER WRITING!!!!
Acc
Thank you CaliGuy! I feel his pain but he must stop.
A ton of great knowledge on this thread. Thank you Acc and Cali.
PP
Gabs,
Please listen to Acc. What he is saying is spot on. We have all been through the "crazy" stage where you feel like what is being said on this forum couldn't possibly work. BUT it does!!! This is one time you can say "but". Give yourself some time and if you REALLY love your wife, you will give her what she is asking for. Some space. Please listen to the vets on this forum, they are here to help.
Thank you for sharing your wisdom Acc. I have a WAH and have learned so much from your last two posts.
Gabs,
Love yourself and love your wife - give yourself the gift of time and your wife the gift of space and keep journaling here and ask for advice before you take any action.
We understand your pain.
Gr8ful3
well it was really hard but I didn't write the letter. today I feel horrible. kids are here and I can't even take care of them. just made some mac and cheese for them and came back to my cave. i can't get out of bed in the morning.
the 180s are the easiest because I feel like I'm directly doing something to get her back. I can't GAL. I go out and sulk with my happy friends.
it seems there is no end and it's only going to get worse, not better. contemplating calling the doctor for some meds.
I'm so sorry for what you are going through. I think I can relate to your pain.
I just found out my wife of 14 years is actively cheating on me two months ago.
In the past two months I've had a few good days. Most of them recently. I'm not sure what your current fitness level is but I would really recommend running. On days that I run 4+ miles I feel strong and confident.
It's really important that you take care of yourself. Easier said than done I know. When I found out I stopped eating. I stopped exercising. I stopped sleeping. It made it worse.
Hit the gym man. You need those endorphins!
I'm so sorry for what you are going through. I think I can relate to your pain.
I just found out my wife of 14 years is actively cheating on me two months ago.
In the past two months I've had a few good days. Most of them recently. I'm not sure what your current fitness level is but I would really recommend running. On days that I run 4+ miles I feel strong and confident.
It's really important that you take care of yourself. Easier said than done I know. When I found out I stopped eating. I stopped exercising. I stopped sleeping. It made it worse.
Hit the gym man. You need those endorphins!
thanks. but part of the problem, I'm sure you can relate, is that I don't really want to feel better. I feel this way because of what is happening and I can't pretend it's not happening. i can't see ANYTHING besides what is happening with my wife. NOTHING. I don't care about anything else. If I'm doing something for that, I can do it. I can read the book, or talk on this forum, or work on my 180s. I just don't really want to do anything else. crying makes me feel better. praying makes me feel better. anything that gives me hope makes me feel better. exercising only makes me feel better if it is somehow tied to getting her back. I know I sound like a weak sick puppy. Maybe that's what I am.
I'm so sorry for what you are going through. I think I can relate to your pain.
I just found out my wife of 14 years is actively cheating on me two months ago.
In the past two months I've had a few good days. Most of them recently. I'm not sure what your current fitness level is but I would really recommend running. On days that I run 4+ miles I feel strong and confident.
It's really important that you take care of yourself. Easier said than done I know. When I found out I stopped eating. I stopped exercising. I stopped sleeping. It made it worse.
Hit the gym man. You need those endorphins!
thanks. but part of the problem, I'm sure you can relate, is that I don't really want to feel better.
wait...what?? Why would you not want to feel better? I feel this way because of what is happening and I can't pretend it's not happening. i can't see ANYTHING besides what is happening with my wife. NOTHING. I don't care about anything else. If I'm doing something for that, I can do it. I can read the book, or talk on this forum, or work on my 180s. I just don't really want to do anything else. crying makes me feel better. praying makes me feel better. anything that gives me hope makes me feel better. exercising only makes me feel better if it is somehow tied to getting her back. I know I sound like a weak sick puppy. Maybe that's what I am.
im sorry that you're feeling this way. But the only way to feel better is to DECIDE TO FEEL BETTER. It's hard. And it's slow. But see if you can go a second without thinking about it. Then 5 seconds. Then a minute. And so on. Yeah, sometimes you will have to pretend. BUT THATS OK.
You say you're working on 180s. How is what you're doing being a good father? How are you teaching your children how to deal with pain?
My advice honestly is to start having a positive attitude. Watch the TED talk by Shawn Achor. It's so good. And so helpful. There's another by Amy Cuddy that's really good too. You have so much to be grateful for and so much life to live. Don't let your W take that away too.
Hi gabs.
Yea, we all hear ya. We all felt exactly the same at some point. And I know you're not interested in anything else right now. I know you can't sleep. I know you can't think and I know every time you shut your eyes you have horrible visions. Those feelings are still so acute with me but more of a memory. Like pain from an operation or an accident. See what I mean?
The people around here give you advice for a reason. We've all been where you are. And it hurts. Really really hurts. It's a b!tch. I get that.
The vets round here are telling you to do certain things for a reason. They want to save you. Once you are saved then they will take it from there.
I know it feels weird because you want to save your M. Well, right now you can't. Brutal I know but there are the facts. However, every success story I've read here always follows the same pattern. The LBS sorts themselves out, gets on with life and eventually puts the WAS at the back of their mind. It's not that they don't love them it's just that what he WAS does no longer affects the LBS. at that point there is a chance. But not before.
Peace
I'm sure you can relate, is that I don't really want to feel better. I feel this way because of what is happening and I can't pretend it's not happening. i can't see ANYTHING besides what is happening with my wife. NOTHING.
I can totally relate. It's weird I know. When I found out and still to this day I wake up thinking of only her, I go to sleep thinking of only her, I workout thinking of only her. Everything I do is for her. I didn't want and still dont want the pain to end either because in some screwed up way felt it kept me closer to her. I still think if I feel pain she's feeling pain and she's thinking of me. But two months in man I'm starting to think a little different. I'm getting glimpses of being healthier for ME. I'm noticing that being depressed isn't good for ME. I'm tired of her hurting ME. It doesn't mean that I don't love her any less. It doesn't mean that I'm giving up. In fact I think she would appreciate all of these things. Seriously though man at some point it has to get better for the both of us! Please take care of yourself.
Gabs, +1 for exercise. It will help you function and be a better father. I rode my bike for literally thousands of miles. I wore out a set of gears and a bike chain in a single summer. It helps. Although you're focused on your wife, you also need to be there for your kids, and you can't do that unless you take care of yourself.
Interesting point to contemplate: See how all these people here feel about their walkaways? They are obsessed with them! The walkaways are not pursuing them, they're not sharing their feelings, they're not declaring their love, they're not demonstrating changes.
Instead they are heading the other way! They are mysterious, they are elusive. They are going out and living their own lives, regardless of what the other person thinks. They are resolved to live their life.
Does this seem to diminish attraction or increase it?
Stop and think about that. Here you have a large data sample. When the WAS pulls away, the loving feelings increase. When the WAS gives space, the loving feelings increase. When the LBS pursues, the loving feelings diminish.
These are facts before you.
Let that guide your plan.
Pursuing does not bring you closer, space does.
In the movie "Caddyshack" Chevy Chase's character says "In one physical model of the universe, the shortest distance between two points is a straight line in the opposite direction"
That is 1000% true of a walkaway spouse situation. If the day your spouse says she wants to leave, you smiled, patted her on the back and said "I love you, I hope you find what you're looking for" and then went your way and did your own thing, that would be the shortest path to reconciliation.
No apologies, no explanations, no love letters, just walk the other direction and give her the space she wants.
If you could do that:
-- You wouldn't dig the hole any deeper
-- You wouldn't push her away any more
-- You wouldn't make her any more resentful
-- You would give her space to think about what she's doing instead of forcing her to continue to think about escaping
-- You would give her time to see what it feels like to live without you for real
-- You would grant her the gift of space and time that she's looking for and she would be grateful to you for not making her feel guilty, and for handling it with class, honor and dignity
A straight line in the other direction is the shortest path home.
Acc
I realize one of the main concepts here is to give the appearance that you are OK, and you are moving on.
Twice since she dropped the bomb, my wife has told me I should find another partner, now/soon. I think she says this because she wants to feel released.
So, what if I dated? What if I put up a page on a dating site, and went out once or twice with another woman. Wouldn't that show her that I am moving on, which is something I'm trying to accomplish? Would that change the dynamic a bit and possibly make her question her decision?
Of course that's the last thing I want to do. i want to stand and fight for her. I can't really imagine being with someone else. And I'm afraid that if I do it, it will show her that I really don't care about being with her anymore, and I don't want to convey that message, even though this book/forum seem to be indicating that's exactly what I need to do.
She has told me to do it.
She even said she thought that when she dropped the bomb that I would take it well and be psyched to be with someone else. She said she was surprised by my reaction and how sad i've been and how much I've been trying to get her back, I guess because I didn't really show much love for her when we were together.
Regardless, would it be a bad idea to show her I'm moving on by going out on a date, or putting up a page on Match.com?
Gab,
You are asking the wrong questions here.
The most important question here is:
Do you want to stay married?
If you say, "yes"....
...then STOP listening to your wayward wife and truly listen to DBers here. We will steer you in the right direction.
Your W doesn't care about you AT THIS MOMENT. All she cares about is her cake and the ability to continue eating it. Her pushing dating on you is a way to deflect her guilt and "force" you to do the same so she can 'feel' better about her affair.
Don't you see how silly and twisted her so-called "logic" is right there??!!!
Fer cryin' outloud....
LOSE THE FEAR FOR REAL!!!
Get your balls back from your W's purse.
If your W told you to jump out of a window from a 10-story building, would you do it knowing that it meant death for you?
Hell No! That's right....
Same thing with her pushing you to "date" other people. How whack is that?!
Here is your to-do list:
-Get up from the fetal position
-Become the best DAD to the kids
-Be active outside of the house
-STOP all R talks/all ILYs
-STOP trying to "win" W back (she's out of the door already)
-Start posting in other threads for you will learn more by reciprocating
-Join 1 or 2 groups that resonates with you in your community (hiking, Dungeons & Dragons, whatnot) through MeetUp
Time to stop sucking the pacifier, ditch it, and grow a pair.
sorry dude, that was a little harsh. I was asking an honest question. it seemed to me that I want to give her the impression that I'm letting go and that was one easy way to do it.
yes I want to stay married. yes.
you are saying to stop listening to her.. but i have also been told to listen to her when she says things like:
--it's hard to be around me when I'm sad
--she needs space
and also, let her move out if she wants... don't stop her.
I've also heard something to the effect, if I love her so much I should give her what she she is asking for, which is to be released.
so it seemed to me that if she suggests I go out on a date, that would be in line with several of the ideas that have been presented to me here. I've also read in the book that I want to "change the dynamic" and going on a date would do just that. sorry if I "asked the wrong question" but it seemed like a logical one to me.
what if she hadn't suggested I do it? would that have changed your answer?
sorry dude, that was a little harsh. I was asking an honest question. it seemed to me that I want to give her the impression that I'm letting go and that was one easy way to do it.
yes I want to stay married. yes.
you are saying to stop listening to her.. but i have also been told to listen to her when she says things like:
--it's hard to be around me when I'm sad
--she needs space
and also, let her move out if she wants... don't stop her.
I've also heard something to the effect, if I love her so much I should give her what she she is asking for, which is to be released.
so it seemed to me that if she suggests I go out on a date, that would be in line with several of the ideas that have been presented to me here. I've also read in the book that I want to "change the dynamic" and going on a date would do just that. sorry if I "asked the wrong question" but it seemed like a logical one to me.
what if she hadn't suggested I do it? would that have changed your answer?
Wonka nailed it with her post. Yeah, it was harsh....but sometimes thats needed.
How about I ask you then:
What do you hope to gain by putting up a dating profile?
Will it get you closer to your goal?
What do you plan to do with this poor woman that would wind up on this sham date with you?
The point is that you cant listen to EVERY word your wife says. In this case, her thought is that you dating will make YOU happy, and then SHE wont feel so guilty leaving.
I am sure that you can see that "Letting her go" and "going on a date" are not the same thing.
Gabs,
Do you want to be right or be married?
I am not coming back here UNTIL you do the following:
-read CaliGuy's threads (MLC forum)
-post in other people's threads (start with saying "hi" or "I feel for ya...am here for support")
You need to get your head out of your own sitch and actively start posting in other people's threads. There's a wealth of information contained in them and you could learn "right" from "wrong" approaches when DBing.
Gabs,
The simple reason why you shouldn't date is that it would not be fair to the other person who really would be looking for a relationship. Find another way to GAL.
Acc
Wonka nailed it with her post. Yeah, it was harsh....but sometimes thats needed.
How about I ask you then:
What do you hope to gain by putting up a dating profile?
Will it get you closer to your goal?
What do you plan to do with this poor woman that would wind up on this sham date with you?
The point is that you cant listen to EVERY word your wife says. In this case, her thought is that you dating will make YOU happy, and then SHE wont feel so guilty leaving.
I am sure that you can see that "Letting her go" and "going on a date" are not the same thing.
sorry, i'm getting confused. I will answer your questions...
What do I hope to gain by putting up a dating profile? It would show W that i have let go and I am moving on and change the dynamic, which I thought was something we are trying to do here.
Would it get me closer to my goal? I don't know, maybe. That's why I thought of it. I keep hearing that she's not even going to think about coming back until it really seems like I have moved on. I can't think of a better way to show that I've moved on. In fact I was told recently that I need to not only make it seem like I've let her go, I actually have to get to the point where it really doesn't matter to me if she comes back or not, before it will ever happen. only then we she sense that I don't need her anymore and only then will she reconsider. It seems to me that the easiest way to show her that I don't need her anymore is to show her I'm willing to consider being with someone else.
What do I plan to do with the woman on the date? Certainly not marry her. I don't think it would be harmful to anyone. People aren't always looking for a long term relationship on the first date. and maybe it's not even a date. maybe just putting up a profile would show her I'm moving on and get her closer to that point where she feels I don't need her anymore.
Maybe it's not a shame date anyway. Maybe it would help me get out of my hole, to think that if this doesn't work out with my wife, that there is a world out there and other fish in the sea. I don't have to marry or sleep with the first person I date.
i apologize if my questions are wrong. I'm new here and trying to feel my way around. I think there is some logic in what I'm asking.
I actually think that "letting her go" and "going on a date" are very closely related. If I ever truly let her go and give up trying to save the marriage, probably one of the first things I'm going to do is think about finding another partner. I ain't getting any younger and I believe in companionship.
Gabs,
Imo.....putting up a dating profile to "show" your wife anything is the wrong approach. You will not show her that you are moving on that way.
One of two things will happen.
1. You will give her a reason to justify her actions.
2. You will make her jealous which will push her away further.
Neither scenario is what you are looking for.
It sounds like you want her to be Jealous. Never a good thing for an LBS.
How is this making you a man only a fool would leave?
Believe me....I have experienced this.
My WW told me that I needed to give up on her and find someone else.
A week later I friended an ex girlfriend in facebook and my wife went berzerk!!!!
She told me that she knew I didnt really love her and that she didnt know how to be with me anymore......all because I pressed the "accept button" for a friend request. Up until then she was struggling with her detatchment from me. It all changed after that.
Do what you want, of course. But be warned. It wont work in getting to your goal.
Also.....letting her go doesn't mean finding another partner. It means detatching and letting her find her way. Its about letting her see what life is like without you while you become the best man you can be. Not starting up a possible affair yourself. You are still married right?
Also....you are still doing things in hopes of getting a reaction from your wife. That is not DBing. I understand that she is not in the marriage anymore, but if you are truly trying to save the marriage, you are taking the wrong path.
Besides....i would think you want to improve the mistakes you have made before you look for another relationship.
But this is just my opinion....i am still a newbie and make my own mistakes.
All I know is the vets here have seen many sitches come and go....they know what works.....and what dosent
thanks I appreciate that answer.
my dynamic is a little different. my wife is does not seem to be struggling with her detachment from me. she seems like she's already done it. I wish she was struggling with it. if there is struggling going on, she's keeping it under wraps. only once did I hear her say anything to indicate she was struggling at all, when she said she knows she's "being the bad guy" making me sad, and the kids sad, and other people too and she started to get a little teary. other than that, see seems comletely content and confident with her decision... or at least that's what she's showing me.
so I can see why your wife would get mad, if she was still struggling with her decision and detatching. i can see why she would say "see I knew you didn't love me." (but that is completely irrational if all you did was accept a friend request).
My wife, I think it's more like what a couple others have said. she would feel relief and less guilty. but who knows. I really don't know what's going on inside her. Maybe there is a part of her that is questioning her decision and I just can't see it. I sure hope so.
For now I'm going to be someone that only a fool would leave. It's not really clear what that is though, because this site seems to say I should be aloof, mysterious, almost playing hard to get.... but to me someone who only a fool would leave is a person who is caring, interested, and present. I guess that's one of the things I need to figure out next.
Thanks for the reply.
I think what we are all getting at is that "letting her go" and "moving on" are NOT the same thing.
The way that I understand DB is that you take the following steps:
1) identify the areas that you need to make improvements/changes based on your feelings about yourself and the things your spouse did not like about you. How you treat people, how you interact with people, your habits, your tendencies, your thought processes, etc.
2) change the things you identified in part 1. A big part of this is the buzzwords: PMA, GAL, detachment. This allows you the space, time, and attitude to make these changes. This step takes a lot of time for the changes to become ingrained behaviors and not just showpieces. I'm talking months. Not days/weeks but months/years.
3) now you will be ready for your next relationship, be it with your W or another woman. Time will tell after you finish step 2 who that lucky lady will be; there's no way to tell now.
The way you change the dynamic is by changing YOU, not changing HER. If you skip right to step 3 ("moving on") what have you done? You've just shortcut the whole process. Sure, you may get your W to change her mind (unlikely, but possible), but you haven't actually changed anything about YOU, so the things you're doing now, the "wake up call", it won't LAST. The only way for this to work is for you to put in the work on yourself.
Become the Gabs only a fool would leave! By the time you become him, you will care much less whether she stays or goes, because you will know you will be OK either way!
To my original point, nowhere in steps 1 or 2 did I mention what your W is up to. That's because it's not about HER. It's about YOU. So let her go. She's going to do what she's going to do anyway. What she does isn't really your concern right now. She wants to buy a house, she wants to date, she wants to learn voodoo.....it doesn't really matter right now, because you can't control her. It will matter when you reach step 3....but it doesn't matter NOW.
For now I'm going to be someone that only a fool would leave. It's not really clear what that is though, because this site seems to say I should be aloof, mysterious, almost playing hard to get.... but to me someone who only a fool would leave is a person who is caring, interested, and present.
YES. only a fool would leave a person that is those things.
But your wife does not want that from YOU right now. But your kids, your friends, your colleagues, your family. They want those things. So be that to THEM.
The changes are for YOU. Not for your wife. Not to convince her of your sincerity. If you try to be caring or interested in your wife, it comes off as "too little too late" and drives her away!
Gabs,
What do you do for fun with your kids? How are they doing? How can you make this sitch better and easier for them? When was the last time you went out and had fun with them?
Gr8ful
Gabs - Heres an example.
Last night, my D was up late in her bed and started complaining. When I went in, she said her hand was hurting her. Old me would have gotten upset that she was playing in her bed and not sleeping. New me sat down and made up some silly ways to fix it before settling on rubbing her back.
My W is long moved out. She will never know of this interaction. But that doesn't make me any less caring. doesn't change the quality of the relationship between my daughter and me.
The changes are for ME. If my wife is interested, she come back to find a more caring partner.
Make sense?
Gabs,
I can understand the temptation to date, it's another one of your efforts to make things better quickly. I know it's tempting, and dating truly can be very rewarding. That said, you are no longer in your 20's. The dating world you will find is quite different than what you might remember. For one thing, you have to have a thick skin. The norm these days on Match is for people to just not respond to you at all. You can write them a two page message and chances are you'll get nothing back. If you do engage with someone, they can disappear at any time for no reason. The point is, getting a good date is not as easy as falling off a turnip truck, and you have to be in a place where you can weather some rejection. Like anything else, you get back what you invest, and for the experience to be good you need to make a substantial investment of time and emotion.
You, my friend, are in no place to do that right now. The dating world can be wonderful but you really have to be "ready", and part of that readiness is pushing forward with DB, making your changes, processing your grief, and coming out the other side confident that Gabs has Gabs figured out, that your relationship skills are as sharp as they can be, and that you are a partner that anyone would be lucky to have. When you have that attitude, you'll be good with dating because you'll know you're a prize to be won.
Dating and dating sites are not an appropriate path for you right now. Focus on Gabs.
It's very, very, very, very hard and we all know that. It was the hardest thing I have ever done, but I'm better for it. Dig deep my friend, dig deep.
Acc
Gabs .... I see you are still in that quicksand pit and as predeicted other members have given you some pretty solid advice.
The "Dating" topic has been tossed around here often. There are times when in the situation it is actually something that should be thought about/discussed however ..... you just had BD ... there is a time and place for things ... and again ... dating this quick to BD will only tell your wife everything she needs be gone.
The reason she has told you to find someone else .... is to ease her own guilt ... she very well might have an OP on the side ... or maybe its just so she can share that 'bad guy' plate with you.
Its very hard not to be all up in thier head ... its also tough when you first arrive here to know what you should and should not do ... this is why one of the first things thrown at the newbies is sandi's 37 as its a very good operators manual when you are swimming in a sea of emotions.
Reading your posts I get you are really confused as to detaching, appearing you are moving on, all that stuff. You arrived here fresh after BD, thats a good thing for you .. I actually did not find this place till about 9 months after. In a way it was better for me .. I imagine I would be doing just as you are now ... I did it alone, you have the gift of a sounding board, comprised of people who are Pro M and Pro Human development .. very strong thing to have in your corner my friend.
IF ... IF you can take a step back and see this for what it is. Lets look at the start of your relationship. Obviously she was attracted to you, not running ... so you pursued her. This is what you are trying to recreate .... thing is she knows your tactics, she can smell your bait like a shark from miles away .. all that is repulsive to her. At the moment she is wayward.
I had an epiphany during my DB process as I seriously struggled with the detachment process (I was easily sucked in, with her actions .. and what I thought I was seeing) I started approaching my W and the interations we had as a science project. I am very analytical, I used what some consider a weakness DB wise into a strenghth .... I emotionally detached and just marked progress. The trick is .. and the challange you are faced with at this pivotal moment is not to fix and save your M .... you can not do that alone without your W .. the trick is damage control, stop making things worse. Look at BE on this forum ... he smothered his W though we begged him not to .. drove by OM's house several times ... became obsessed and it drove his W into running faster and further ... I still have hope in his sitch and I have the same for yours ..... why? Because I saved mine, Currently I am 3 months away from saying I have been separated for 2 YEARS .... through this time my W had an OM, said she has not loved me in 10 years, filed for D 3 times and we were just signatures away from it becoming final. But now ... after alot of hard work on myself...We attended Retrouvaille, have been actively working on our M and our issues. We have been staying together for 6 weeks and we plan on moving back in with each other in about 2 months (When my lease is up). There is hope in all this .. regardless of the M or not .... I can tell you I am happy with the large changes I made in my life, I am at a point I would love to be M to my W, but I also would be just dandy alone... the M does not define me nor who I am as a man.
How did I do it?
What is the magic Bullet?
Well ... no magic bullet ... I did it by realizing that I MATTERED. I had little to offer when I was a lap dog running around praying for scraps of attention, begging for W to come back. I, like most here had to crawl before I could walk, then figured out how to run.
I started by making small changes (as small as simply making the bed every morning), some based on legit gripes my W had. Some were more about who I felt I WANTED to be. Concept Cali 2.0 was born. I made a list about myself, things I liked ... along with a parallel list of things I didn't. Then a 3rd list of traits I admired in others. Line by line I took the bad traits and replaced them with traits I admired in others ... hence becoming a man only a fool would leave.
^^^^ Rebuilds your confidence ... drowning in quicksand does not. Making knee jerk reactions (Writing letters out of panic, Joining a dating site solely for reactions) does not.
Gabs, get out of bed and start to learn how to crawl again. Get your GAL list started. Look/read around here for ideas
For me I began to:
Eat healthier, got rid of fast food, sodas ... all that.
I started to take pride in my appearance even if I was not going to leave the house.
I began to run ... used an app to track progress.
I joined a Softball Team
Joined a Football team
Bought a Harley
I went to church ... converted to Catholicism (Met every Wed for 6 months)
I coached my S's baseball/soccer team.
This ^^^ Increased my self esteem, my PMA, .... this also showed my W that I was not going to 'break' without her .. infact it showed I could thrive. While she was in fantasy land with her A, I was making a true man out of myself and not allowing her actions to control me. I not only became a man a fool would leave ... I became a man others admired and respected. I got my mojo back. You have to crawl before you can run the marathon.
You can do this ... but you have to start slow. I get your hesitancy on detaching but this list I shared... how could doing these things hurt? I will tell you this ... if you focus on this stuff, it takes your focus off your W .... do not tell her what you are doing ... and if you have not read it .. MAKE SURE you hide this site ... we had a member whose W found him here so all these things appeared to be tricks to manipulate her back into the M ... but honestly its more about rebuilding YOU and creating an attractive person again.
Great post Cali. The scientific view of 2.0'ing is a great way to look at it. I like the list idea as well of things you like and dislike about yourself.
Your willingness to share your story has changed a lot of lives on here Cali, thank you.
PP
thanks Cali. i should clarify. I often come here when I am at a low point. so that's what you're seeing mostly. but i am getting out of bed and I have been working on myself. Gabs 2.0 has already been born. A week after the BD, I cut my hair and that's when it started. If you want to hear the changes I've made since this began:
-- quit drinking (although I never drank that much)
-- quit cannabis
-- got a haircut
-- started wearing nicer clothes
-- trimming my beard close every day
-- showering every day and using lots of deoderant
-- started riding my bike every day
-- started meditating every day
-- started going to bed earlier and getting up earlier
-- yoga
-- reading books on communication skills, anger management, and DB
admittedly I am not eating well, but I'm not hungry, and I have lost weight... but I needed to lose 10 pounds so I'm hoping to keep it off.
i want to comment about the self esteem, confidence, being a man that others respect and admire...etc. this is a strange one for me. trying not to sound vain... but I am already well respected in my community. I have several educational/environmental projects that are well known. I've gone to Haiti to put solar panels on a school. I'm in a band... I wrote a book... I'm the coach of the kid's baseball team. I've met the Governor, and both of our Senators. I've had my face in the paper and on TV for many of these things.. People often come up to me and say I'm an interesting guy... I have a passion for doing good things and trying to make the world a better place and people know that and admire that in me. I am a confident person. But for some reason this has never served me in my relationship. She appreciates what I do but i think she also gets frustrated that all my projects leave little time for her. So if I go out there now and engage in some project that gives me recognition and admiration, I think it would be "more of the same" to her and I'm not sure it would show her much of anything.
The bottom line, I definitely had some bad habits and I didn't give my wife the attention she needed. I have identified several things that needed to change in my life and I am working on them. Gabs 2.0 is not so much about gaining admiration because I've been there and done that. Gabs 2.0 is about being a better husband, which I can't do right now. So I am doing the things I listed above which will hopefully show her that if she did come back I really am a different person now and I would be a better husband. She was convinced that I would never change but it's my job to show her I have changed. And that these changes are not just band-aids to try to get her back. They are real changes. And, I think the more of these changes she sees, and the longer they endure, the more she has to ask herself if they are just temporary changes in an effort to get her back, or maybe I really am changing.
To be clear, I have not groveled or begged since I came to this forum. I really have changed my tact. I understand that being sad and begging makes her not want to be around me and pushes her away further. I learned that here and have taken that to heart.
It is true, I am depressed, and I do have trouble getting out of bed and I have times when I really get down thinking what is happening and I can't block it out of my mind. BUT, I do not show this to her. I have not groveled or cried around her in quite a while and I have made an effort to pretend I'm happy, especially around the kids. When she is there and we talk I use my new communication skills to look her in the eye and really listen to what she's saying. She is noticing. At first she looked away and felt uncomfortable but now she is looking back at me.
A part of me has to believe I'm starting to crack through. I know she doesn't want to see that I'm changing. She doesn't want to believe it.
But I am fueled by a very solid belief that deep down inside her, she loves me. She even has told me that she loves me recently (of course in the middle of a sentence like "I love you and care about you but we are not meant for each other"). But, she is surviving now and moving forward because she has closed her heart and she's not looking down there. But I know it's down there on the other side of that wall she built around her heart. I believe it's going to crack through. I believe the way to crack through is with many of the things I've learned here. I need to give her space and try to slow her down. I need to stop groveling. I need to be the change and not talk about it and promise it.
She has told me before, not long ago, that she knows we are soulmates. I believe if a person says that and means it, they can't just change their mind a few months later.
The main reason she left was not because she didn't love me. It was because I was neglecting her and she didn't feel loved BY me. I agree I did a bad job at that. But I'm showing her how much I love her now. It's going to take some time for her to believe me. But that's all I can do.
I can tell you, in spite of my wife's effort to get out, and get out fast, we have been having some nice interactions lately. Perhaps it's because the kids are around and she wants things to be nice in the house. But one of the rules I haven't been great with, is being aloof. When she comes back from the dentist, I ask her how it was. I engage in a way that I didn't before. I need her to experience Gabs 2.0, which is a person who is really interested in her life. I can tell you, she's not resisting. She is answering my questions and cracks a smile sometimes. I feel this is what I need to do. I need to show her I'm better at communicating and listening and being interested in her. I think it takes her by surprise when I do this. I think this is better than being aloof, for me right now.
OK, enough typing. I just was getting the feeling that those reading this thread thought I was still crying and begging around my W and not doing anything to become Gabs 2.0 when that is not the case. I really feel like a different person already. And I have hope that I'm starting to wear away at that wall she has built around her heart and someday a little crack is going to open up and that love light is going to shine.
Nice job Gabs!! Two thumbs up!
Gabs
Your thoughts are exactly the same as mine or at least exactly as my thoughts were.
Your W and you are at two completely different time zones she has been feeling her pain for a number of years exactly the same as me and my wife.
When people talk about quicksand this is what it feels like but her mind was made up years ago just like my W made her mind up
I have done all the things you have said you are doing and it has not worked I am not giving up but I am starting to move forward.
The pain gets less each day and not a day goes by when I think if only she could give me one more chance I would show her how different I would be....but she wont she does not want to be back at the point of feeling so hurt,she has cried her tears years ago and has spent time with me in the M to justify why she should get out of our M
I am not sure if my W and I living together in the same house is for the best or not yes it keeps us all together but it is just so painful we are in limbo and I do not know how long to do this for.
I really feel your upset but you like myself have to move on from this so try to be strong and become a better Gab
Take care
So my wife is about to go on a trip to visit her dad and brother.
I read in the DB book that talking with friends and family is not helpful to saving a marriage because they only get one side of the story and of course they want to support her.
I am thinking it might not hurt if I just send a short letter to them before she goes. It would be short and to the point, just acknowledging what is happening, saying I love my W, I've identified some issues that contributed to her feeling neglected and I'm working very hard on myself, and that I love them too.
I just think if I do nothing, it's going to be all her side of the story and they're going to be supporting her and telling her it was a good idea and soforth.
thoughts? thanks.
I don't see any point in sending that note. It sounds needy, clingy, and defensive. Plus, as you said, they are going to take her side anyway. And honestly, if they were to take your "side", it would just push her away from them. Lastly, I'm sure she won't be thrilled about you going around her to her family to discuss your personal matters.
so you think I should just cut off communication with her family completely? these are people I spent 30 years with. She has said she hopes she can still have some kind of relationship with my family. I would hope to do the same with hers. I realize they are going to take her side anyway, but I think if they hear from me they will at least know where I stand and be keeping that in mind as she speaks with them.
I didn't say that. I said don't send THIS note. Talk to them all you want, but there's no benefit to you in bringing up your relationship status with them.
I didn't say that. I said don't send THIS note. Talk to them all you want, but there's no benefit to you in bringing up your relationship status with them.
Oh, OK. thanks I will write them a note just to be in touch and remind them i'm a nice guy and I won't mention HOW MUCH I LOVE HER
Gabs...
Reading your posts... Seems like you are only gong to pick and choose what you want to hear and apply it to what you want to do , I've seen others do this then only after they've created a complete mess do they really start to become humble and admit they need help.
I would suggest a number of things, but I do know when there are times you just have to allow a person to fall all on their own
I wish you the best with your approach, I do not believe this will do anything more than make your W run faster and harder
Good luck
Cal is right.
My tuppence worth? No note. Step back and leave it be. It'll do no good at all to send that note. Let it go.
I could use some help on how to respond to some of W's requests.
I realize I'm supposed to give her the space she is asking for, but I'm not supposed to be an enabler. Like I'm not supposed to be the one to move out and find a new place.
For example, she made up this plan, that we should refinance the house which would lower the payments, and as a part of that she would take her name off the deed/mortgage, so then it is only my house. and as a part of that I would have to give her $cash$ for half of the equity of the house. this would be nearly all the money I have left (after she insisted on splitting our savings into 2 bank accounts a couple weeks ago).
I feel like, why should I be the one to call the mortgage company and ask all these questions and organize a refinance? I don't want any of this to be happening. If I do all that, aren't I enabling it.... But on the other hand, I feel like if I don't go along to some extent, she will just do things her way.
I did speak to a lawyer, and she said it is jumping the gun to refinance now and get her name off the house. she hasn't even filed for divorce yet. She said W should find an apartment and leave everything else the way it is. When we get further down the road we will be discussing how things will get split up and a judge will have to approve our decisions.
I don't even want to tell her I went to a lawyer, though. I think that will start drawing a line between us. I think if we start bickering about this and that my chances of reconciliation go down the tubes.
any advice on this?
My advice?
Stop pretending that there isn't a line already drawn between you two.
I'll let people with more experience give comments on the actual question.
I could use some help on how to respond to some of W's requests.
I realize I'm supposed to give her the space she is asking for, but I'm not supposed to be an enabler. Like I'm not supposed to be the one to move out and find a new place.
For example, she made up this plan, that we should refinance the house which would lower the payments, and as a part of that she would take her name off the deed/mortgage, so then it is only my house. and as a part of that I would have to give her $cash$ for half of the equity of the house. this would be nearly all the money I have left (after she insisted on splitting our savings into 2 bank accounts a couple weeks ago).
I feel like, why should I be the one to call the mortgage company and ask all these questions and organize a refinance? I don't want any of this to be happening. If I do all that, aren't I enabling it.... But on the other hand, I feel like if I don't go along to some extent, she will just do things her way.
I did speak to a lawyer, and she said it is jumping the gun to refinance now and get her name off the house. she hasn't even filed for divorce yet. She said W should find an apartment and leave everything else the way it is. When we get further down the road we will be discussing how things will get split up and a judge will have to approve our decisions.
I don't even want to tell her I went to a lawyer, though. I think that will start drawing a line between us. I think if we start bickering about this and that my chances of reconciliation go down the tubes.
any advice on this?
My advice ... you can not DB half-a$$ .... You may want to read your post again. Looks to me like your W is getting all her duckies in a row for the big time eject pull while you are just going along for the ride.
That line you are worried about... has already been drawn by your wife.... with a big fat sharpie
I agree with your L ... your W should be the one who moves out and once the D is filed then you can decide which direction to take. Its good you did actually get the L, you have to protect yourself here.
Still no posting in other threads and not reading up Cali's situation as your homework assignment, Gabs.
You are too isolated by staying on your thread all by your lonesome self. Get up and go outside of your tiki hut to visit other people's tiki huts. You'll learn an ENORMOUS amount by reading Cali's threads and visiting other threads in the Newcomers forum.
Go on...go!
Guys, I guess you don't understand what I'm asking. I just want to try to navigate through this process in a way that minimizes the changes of things going sour with my W. It's not only because I want to reconcile. It's also because it is best for the kids for us to be working together and to remain friends. I don't what the scenario where we can't stand being around each other and we drop off the kids in the driveway and speed away. If we can remain on good terms it is best for everyone. That's all.
I think we jump to getting lawyers who are employed to protect each of us individually, it would not help my cause.
I'm going to suggest we find a mediator. I'm going to tell her I want to work together. She has said she wants that too.
Even if you go through the mediation process, you still need a L. You need one to consult and review paperwork before you sign anything at the very least. Fill out your own D paperwork and keep it to yourself, so you are prepared to know what to ask for. Don't pull the trigger on anything, but prepare yourself behind the scenes. Educate yourself about the process so you are not blindsided. You know she is.
Be smart, prepared, agreeable, strong and try to be at peace with wherever this process takes you. She will be caught off guard and will notice you taking the high road. Any other position is unattractive.
I agree with Shuley. I want everything you are saying. At the same time I have to protect myself in order to be the best mother for my son. We each have an attorney but we are doing a collaborative divorce which means we decide our fates not the courts. It [censored] regardless. I do not want a divorce but H is pushing it. I refuse to be take advantage of. Getting a lawyer doesn't mean it will automatically not be amicable. That's up to you.
Is this a safe place to let my emotions out? Even if they are not in alignment with the last resort technique?
Do not read this post if you are not a sympathetic person. Do not read this if you are going to attack me for feeling what I feel. Know that I am not acting on these emotions. I am just feeling them and I just need to vent and release some emotions.
I have been trying to Act as If for a long time and sometimes I just need to feel what I'm really feeling. it is not easy to keep it all inside, especially when what I'm feeling is so intense and overwhelming to the point where Acting as If is almost impossible.
If I am attacked for this, I will just delete this post.
But know that I am not acting on these things. I just need to release my true feelings that I have been covering up since I found this place.
But all I want to do is tell her how much I miss her.
All I want to do is tell her how empty my life is without her.
All I want to do is tell her how I want to make up for the years I wasn't showing her I love her the way I should have.
All I want to do is ask her to give me another chance.
All I want to do is write her a long letter and tell her all these things.
All I want to do is write love songs for her. I have several already written. I want to play them for her. I want to put them on Youtube and post them on her facebook page and her friends will call her and say "wow that is so sweet, he really does love you."
All I want to do is stand and wait for her to come back.
All I can think of is her.
All I want to do is read back to her the love letters she wrote to me over the years, when she said "I know we are soulmates." When she said "what is real is our connection." When she said "we have an eternal bond."
All I want to do is tell her I agree, we are soulmates. Yes we do have an eternal bond. Snap out of it! Love is real! this is just a bump in the road, leading us to a new better relationship. this had to happen for me to see the changes that needed to take place. I get it now. Let's start over! It is going to so much better now!
All I want to do is tell her how the kids are going to be screwed up because of this.
All I want to do is tell her it's going to be a huge financial burden for both of us and neither of us are going to be able to make ends meet. Or go on vacations, or afford simple things like going out to dinner, or car repairs. There will be no money for college.
All I want to do is say this is going to make things more difficult for both of us in so many ways.
All I want to do is say, we don't have to destroy our family and our finances.
All I want to do is tell her I can't stand the thought of being without her.
All I want to do is say we don't have to do this. There is another choice.
All I want to do is say I love her more than I've ever loved anything and I ever will.
All I want to do is tell her I'm changing my life around and being the person I should have been. I've learned so much in the last month. I can see things I could never see before. I'm a different person.
All I want to do is I tell her I'm going to sit and wait for her to return, even if it takes forever.
My heart says to do all these things.
I know I'll be attacked for thinking and writing this. Sorry.
Go ahead and attack me.
I'm not doing any of this. I'm just saying what I feel inside. I can't change my heart. My heart just says, I love her and I can't let her go.
One of the hardest parts of this "Last resort" technique is that I can't share what I'm really feeling. I have to keep it all inside except for one or two friends who know what I'm doing...
And here. But I suppose I'm going to be chastised for sharing what I really feel and not keeping the Act as If thing going.
GAL says I just need to let go, detach, be my own person, and that's the only way I have even a tiny chance of getting her back. If i did any of this stuff it would push her away. I guess I have to believe it's true. But sometimes I feel like she's already pushed away, so do I really have anything to lose? Sometimes my heart tells me that by following the rules I am making it easier for her to go. Sometimes my heart says she might be thinking "why isn't he begging and promising me? maybe he doesn't really want me to come back" and I am making a huge mistake. She has tried to leave before and all that stuff has worked. How do I know the "never give up" method wouldn't eventually snap her out of it. Because, the main reason she left is because she didn't feel loved by me. isn't the best way to show her i DO love her is to drop everything in my life and do everything I can to get her back? Won't she at some point say to herself, "wow, he really won't give up on me. this is a person that really really loves me. this is what I've been looking for all my life. someone who won't let me go no matter what. I feel loved for the first time."
but I don't want to "backslide" so I won't.
go ahead and attack me. I just needed to release. if it turns into an attack Gabs for being weak thread, I will just delete it.
in the meantime I guess I'm going to work on my 180. that part is the easiest. its the GAL and Act As If that seems nearly impossible.
Gabs -
There is nothing wrong with any of those feelings. We are all here because we WANT to do all of those things. Most of us DID all of those things. This is a tough road were on, and there's no problem with having feelings.
What you'll get takings to about is DOING those things. It's about DOING what WORKS.
Wishing you strength tonight!
Gabs -
There is nothing wrong with any of those feelings. We are all here because we WANT to do all of those things. Most of us DID all of those things. This is a tough road were on, and there's no problem with having feelings.
What you'll get takings to about is DOING those things. It's about DOING what WORKS.
Wishing you strength tonight!
thanks. it actually helped just to get it out.
Gabs
I fee the same way as you do and I am sure many other people also feel like this but the bottom line is it does not help....my W asked for my time she desperately wanted me to spend quality time with her making her feel loved since the split she does not want me arround her and me pushing this just shows that I do not listen still.
It is so so hard to distance yourself from someone you love ....God I am in almost in an exact same position as you are and it [censored] big time.
Keep bettering yourself to be the best person you can be
You will get through this
Take care
Hi Gabs,
No one is here to attack you, and this IS a safe place to vent. I fear sometimes people get frustrated watching you (or anyone else) make the same mistakes they have made over and over again to predictable results. I see you are starting to get it, and I also see that you don't want to get it, because you are holding onto the belief that you can pursue her back into loving you.
There is a world of difference between dealing with someone in a marital argument who is mad at you, but who is still deep down committed to the marriage, and someone who is simply "done" and already checked out. Everything that you want to do would work in the first case, and nothing you want to do would work in the second case.
The difference between those two states is hard to grasp, but it is a crucial difference.
I'm glad you didn't write any letters to your wife's family. Even if she is batshit crazy and making the worst decision of her life, that is still HER family, and she needs them for support. You must resist every temptation to try to go around her and enlist her family's support. If they've known you for 30 years, they already know you and nothing you tell them now is going to make a difference.
Don't do anything to help your wife separate, make her do all the work. Splitting up your bank accounts already was a mistake. Follow the lawyer's advice and don't put the cart before the horse. The first step is that she should file. Until she does, you should maintain the status quo. DB'ing is not about placating her, it's about not pursuing her.
You can say "no" as often as you would like, and you will not be jeopardizing your chance of reconciliation at all. Protect yourself and protect your kids, let her do what she's going to do. That's ALL you can do.
Acc
Gabs,
We all have been where you are and wanted to say the very same exact thing to our spouses. We totally get it.
My frustration with you is that I do not see you visiting other people's threads and learning from others. Then you come here and ask the same questions in 101 different ways when Cadet has rolled out his welcome post with links to resources that help newbies.
All you do is to come straight to your own thread. That's putting on blinders thus depriving yourself of some really valuable help and resources from other posters.
It is as if you are sitting by your own desk in a classroom full of students and being unwilling to participate in activities & discussion. Eventually, people are going to realize that you are not open to ideas, concepts, and strategies to succeed in the classroom.
Again, you will do what you want to do. Even if it means shooting yourself in the foot.
Heck, I even gave you one teeny homework assignment (reading Cali's threads) and you still haven't done it. Your actions speak louder than words you throw up in your own post.
I am trying to understand your obstinate stance here.
Wonka I am not wanting to hijack this thread it is just sometimes it seems that the only option is detach detach detach get a life and cross fingers make changes and hope that she will come back
Show her the man that she would be mad to leave
I too am in a similar position to gabs and so desperately want my wife back but I do understand not to pursue
The help from the vets is so important to us newbies
I have found it so helpful but I know I have made mistakes
Life is a rolla coaster.....but now it is like the flippin corkscrew at 6 flags Magic mountain
sometimes it seems that the only option is detach detach detach get a life
YES! - That is why it is in
BOLD letters on my welcome post
Gabs
I read up on your sitch during the weekend, I typically never post as its from my phone and just so hard to type out the longer responses .. especially with sensitive issues like what you are going through.
That vent you typed out ... no bashing nor 2x4's as yes .. this place is a safe house, those words/feelings most of us have been there, if you are going to release that I think everyone here would say ... yes... do that HERE, just never write them/show them/tell them to your W right now as it would only send her off even faster.
You have some of the heavy hitters this forum has to offer trying to help you see the forest through the trees, You have only been here a couple weeks, everything is just so upside down .. I remember it all to well. Like I have said before, I did not find this place till well after my BD .... I made a few mistakes before coming to this forum, and a few more during ... we all do.
Wonka hit it with her post, something I have been thinking about with you .... you came into a Self Defense class and we are trying to teach you basic throws in order to simply defend yourself ... however you seem to be convinced that talking your way out of the altercation is the best way, Leaving us to scratch our heads as to why come here for help and tell us your tactics rather than learn the basics, the fundamentals, use them and see if they actually might help your situation.
OK, so I have been gone for a while. I found this forum was helpful in many ways but I also found I was getting attacked for questioning things or not following the letter of the law. One person told me, we all screw up and break the rules sometimes. But others seemed to be harsh and attack me on occasion and it just wasn't serving me.
Anyway, I realized I need to come back. I really don't have much support otherwise. Everyone thinks I should just give up. When I say I'm still trying to get her back they say "c'mon it's been two months and she hasn't changed her mind...." or "look she bought a house. that seems pretty final." So I have to keep to myself about this, except just one or two friends who are sympathetic to what I"m trying to do.
For the most part I am still following the instructions. I have made many 180 changes in my life. I have completely stopped pursuing her and asking her to change her mind. She is still living in the house for anohter month until she moves into a house she bought so we are interacting and I am making sure it goes well. I am practicing me new communication skills, looking her in the eye, showing interest, but also giving her space and not following her around everywhere she goes.
The hardest part for me is Get a Life. I really have a hard time going out and enjoying time with friends. I can pretend I'm OK when I'm around her because I realize that is important for my goal. But the minute she's gone I take a nose dive. When I go out to pick up the kids at soccer and I see our friends there chatting and smiling, I have a hard time. It seems like everyone else has a beautiful life except me. they all have a partner, financial stability, family stability, and I have nothing except my kids, and even they I feel like are not in a good place because of what is happening.
Another thing I really struggle with is having to keep everything inside and not being able to tell her even just some basic things, without groveling or begging. I really want to just tell her that even after 2 months, I have made some great strides in accepting what is happening but I still love her and I still want to repair our marriage. I want to tell her that before when we were together I didn't appreciate her as much as I should and now I appreciate her so much. I feel like when I don't tell her any of this stuff, I am just enabling her to move out and make it easy and also making her think that I don't really care about her or whether or not we are together. For us that was one of the reasons she left. I gave her the impression that I didn't want to spend the rest of my life with her. so I feel like by being indifferent I am confirming what she thought and she's thinking "see, he doesn't really care that I'm doing this. I knew he wouldn't." I feel a strong need to occasionally let her know that I do care and I don't like what is happening and I was wrong to give the impression before that I didn't want to spend the rest of my life with her.
Anyway. I came back because I need support. Most of my friends are only telling me to give up and that doesn't help. When she's around I can be happy, because I understand the need for that. But otherwise I am not doing well. Every day is a struggle. I need to talk to some other people who are going through what I'm going through. I am not looking for someone to criticize me for failing to "Get a Life" after 2 months, or to smack me for wanting to tell her I love her and want her back.
Is there anyone out there that understands what I'm going through?
Hi Gabs, welcome back and I'm glad you did decide to come back. It is true that if someone thinks they know better than the DB/DR approach, there can be some comeback. But know this, people only post in this way because they have your best interests at heart, and we all want you to succeed at this.
My advice would be to start from the foundations. Go back to DB101. Read DR again with a pencil this time, and make notes on the key messages there. Also, keep journaling and posting. Have a look at Anna's thread in Infidelity for a great post on GAL by 25yrs.
From how you describe your sitch, it sounds as though you feel very much 'glass half empty' just now. But with time and effort you can change this. We all have to recognise that our S's are gone just now and build our lives without them. GAL is such an important part of that.
It is easy to look around and think - everyone else has a great life. That's just not true my friend. I had dinner the other day with an old colleague who is happily married and has 3 kids. She cried and told me she and her H have fallen out about her eldest who is a bit off the rails just now. Everyone has trials and tribulations in their lives.
As a little GAL prescription, can I suggest you have a look at a TED talk whenever you start to feel low. They are only 20 minutes and I recommend Brene Brown, Shawn Achors, Amy Cuddy as a starting point.
Also, in terms of GAL, it needn't be mega social. But if there is something that gets you out of the house, active, immersed in something, around people. All of those things are good and your life will start to have more meaning - even without your spouse part of it.
Oh, and the other thing. Two months is a very short timescale. Very few sitches turn around in that time. Think more in terms of nine months plus, and then you're talking. I'm almost 14 months since BD and H is currently filing for D, with OW still on the scene. My life otherwise is pretty happy though - I've come a long way since the utter devastation at BD when I left our home, my job, the area etc.
Good luck to you Gabs - you can do this my friend :-)
thanks Sotto.
I will go back and re-read the book some more but I have to say over half of it is not for people in my situation. It seems like chapter 7 to the end are all about working on the relationship once you have gotten her back to trying again.
I should mention I have been reading other materials too. The DR book is not the only place that talks about this stuff. The advice is farily consistent - be happy, don't grovel, don't pursue, don't resist, make changes in your life.
He says he's been doing this for 45 years and has saved thousands of marriages. Much of the advice is the same as the DR book, but he has some more insights as to what is going on in the head of the other person and some of it is helpful to me. He also goes a step further in some cases. In being "aloof" for example... he actually suggests that you date other people and says the majority of his cases, when the Wayward person turns around, it is often when the left-behind-spouse actually starts dating again that they start to rethink things.
anyway I just wanted to put that out there.... I was able to find a free download of the ebook. it helps to konw that Michelle's ideas are not totally unique and others who ahve been working on this for a long time have similar suggestions. the McDonald book has 44 suggestions, similar to the 37 posted here and there is a lot of overlap.
Sometimes I'm not sure what is the best thing to do. Any thoughts on this are appreciated.
My W has bought another house and will be moving out in 5 weeks. I see these last 5 weeks as an opportunity to show her my 180s and remind her of my good qualities. I realize I'm supposed to be somewhat aloof but I feel a need to balance this against this being my last chance to shine on a regular basis.
So I have been cooking nice meals. I have always been the cook in the house but I am making an extra effort to make nice dinners so she remembers my cooking once she is gone. I have been asking her how her day was and really using my new communication skills (listening, repeating back, looking in the eye). I have been giving her space but also being very nice to her, helping her do something if she asks.
I have been very non-confrontational with her. I honor her ideas and pretty much go along with them. I am being very friendly, happy. trying to show I am a strong happy person (even though inside I am a wreck). If the kids want to play a game and have both parents involved I'm all for it and I try to be happy and goofy and have a good time at it.
for the most part we are getting along very well. when I ask how her day is we usually have a nice conversation.
I'm trying to remind her I'm a good person with good traits and be the "person only a fool would leave" (a phrase I've heard here before).
so my question is, i have read here online and i think also in the book that I should just give short answers to questions to her questions and keep my own space most of the time. I am not sure how to balance that with being the person "only a fool would leave." these two ideas seem to be contradictory. if I just give short answers, keep my space as much as possible, then I am not being a person "only a fool would leave." A person "only a fool would leave" is someone who makes delicious meals, cleans up the house, is good at communicating, etc.
this is particularly confusing to me because I feel like I have a short window of opportunity while she is still living in the house and I don't want to waste it. once she's gone she won't be able to taste my delicious cooking, or see how well I can communicate and show interest in her life (like I didn't before). how do I balance this? I realize no one has all the answers but if anyone has input, I'm all ears. thanks.
In my opinion, BEING a person only a fool would leave and SHOWING her a person only a fool would leave are not the same thing.
I dont think that she is paying any attention to the things you are doing right now, because she is fixated on moving out. Its one thing to make these changes when she is watching; it is totally different to make these changes when she is not.
I dont believe that anything will change in the next 5 weeks. I think you shouldnt look at it as a last chance to change things. As co-parents, you will still have plenty of chances for interaction in the future. With that said, you dont want to be "aloof", but you dont want to chat her ear off. Be pleasant and friendly, but you dont want to bear your soul.
Glad that you are back, but Im sorry that your situation hasnt improved.
Thanks Azzork, but I can't see how it wouldn't make a difference if I make these changes now. Some of them are directly related to how we interact. Showing her I can communicate better than before, I think that is important.
She is noticing my changes (and has a couple times mentioned it and asked me about it), Even if she suspects it is only for her benefit, I still think this would be better than if I just kept doing everything the way I was before.
I agree that she's not going to change her mind in the next 5 weeks. She has bought a house. She is moving there. I am telling myself this is a necessary step in the process. she has to test out the other side of the fence and see if the grass is greener before she is ever going to think about coming back. that is partly my coping mechanism, to think of it that way, but it is also logical. So I don't expect my 180s to make her change her mind and not move out. it's too late for that. But I do think/hope that it will have some impact on how she thinks of me once she is gone, even if just minimal. And anyway, i'm not just doing it for her. I've learned everything isn't black and white. It's OK if I'm motivated partially to make these changes for her, but I also recognize they are good changes I'm glad I'm making for myself. For example, I used to sleep in in the morning and I never saw her or the kids in the morning. Now I am getting up early and making the kids breakfast. It's great to have time to see the kids in the morning. It also is showing my wife one more of the many things that have changed about me.
I think this is an important thing. If I just kept sleeping in in the morning, being a bad communicator, not listening to her ideas, not reacting with anger, (and many other things) she would have no reason to even consider coming back here, ever. If she has multiple reasons to recognize that I have changed, I think it changes things. If her image of me is exactly the same as I was, if she ever thinks about coming back she will say "why should I do that, it will just be exactly the way it was." Now at least there is a tiny shred of thought in her mind, "well it did seem like he was changing a lot. maybe things would be better."
so I am not chatting her ear off, not bending over backwards to do things for her, I need to show her my changes. It's not a fake play I put on though... it's who I am becoming. For example, I'm using my communication skills and not reacting with anger, not just with her. I do it with my kids too. So it is good for everyone. And I think she notices when she hears me communicating with the kids. It can't be hurting my cause.
Gabs,
I believe the biggest challenge you face is your quest to achieve "balance" between doing the things you should and doing the things you should not. Unfortunately, with pursuing, there is no balance. Pursuing "a little bit" is like being a little bit pregnant. Either you are pregnant or you are not, there is no potential for balance.
You can't be "a little aloof" either. Either you are aloof or you are engaged. If you are a little aloof you will come across as someone who is engaged and is pretending to be aloof, which is just confusing. I don't agree with the suggestion to be aloof, by the way, and I also don't agree with the suggestion that you should date. That's simply not fair to the person you would be dating, regardless of the benefits it might have for your cause. Also, it's likely you will find someone who really likes you, and you're not ready for that, so when you ultimately have to tell them you don't want to go on another date you'll feel even worse than you do now.
The difficult thing about this forum is that everything about this situation depends on the nuance. In many ways it's much more the how than the what with regard to what you do and what you say. Your body language, your tone, your timing, it all matters and it's impossible to communicate in this format.
In what you're writing, you are coming across as manic -- putting on a frenzied show of being an ideal husband in the hope that you can completely erase 20+ years of marriage before the 5 week deadline expires. That is probably just how it's coming across as the nuance of how you're doing it is important, but it's something to be mindful of nonetheless.
I would completely ignore the 5 week horizon, it will just lead you to thrash. Your wife will also pick up on your energy, and will be emotionally exhausted by the unspoken pressure you're exerting. Better to give both of you a break through this difficult transition.
Rather than trying to be the Army Corps of Engineers and attempting to control all aspects of the situation, you will be better served to float with the current for a while. Focus on you, your changes, processing your feelings, and being good to your children.
Surrender to the fact that you cannot control the outcome here. That's not trivial. You have to simply surrender yourself to the fact that you cannot influence what your wife ultimately decides to do. Once you are able to surrender to that, you will feel a sense of relief.
Good things await you -- your life will be great again regardless of what happens. The more work you do on yourself the better it will be. That's the part you can control -- be the man you want to be, and take your focus off of W.
Acc
This thread has some really good stuff on it and I saved it a few months ago. Hopefully it will be good reading for everyone.