Hello
I am trying to get things right but seem to be getting things wrong. my sister posted some warming comments on my facebook page but my W thought they were a dig at her I told her my sister just cared about me and I have removed them as I do not want to cause upset to W
I am trying to detach from her and give her space
We are cohabiting and we get along in the house together we do things for our children and are doing less and less together day to day she is doing her things and I am doing mine .
I am a fixer kind of person and I like to fix things in R I did not like sleeping on problems and would always try to make things right if we had argued.
So a question if I detach from W will she not just think I have given up on our R
When she made the choice to S it was a very hard decision for her to make I know this now that we have split she feels happier because she does not have to worry about my needs and wants she says the children are happier although I think they are struggling with emotions more
But she knows whilst we are apart I will always be doing my best to make things right
She knows that if I back track then she has the reason to walk away completely
I just feel that no matter what I do she will hold this over me and will not entertain getting back together for fear of me hurting her again
Please can someone guide me What are my next steps
GAL AND DETACH ?
Thank you for sticking with me
Gary
Last thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2588947#Post2588947First thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2586771#Post2586771
Hi. Like all of us sorry you are here. But I must say in the short amount of time I have been here the response and advise has been wonderful. My advice is to READ. Read everything they tell you too and more. I just keep reading all the posts over and over. It is hard to imagine being here but know your not alone.
Sorry I don't have much to offer yet.
How do people keep things together I am so emotional right now but am trying not to show it
Need to find things to do to take my mind off situation
Time, GAL, hurt yourself enough. You will eventually learn the hard way letting out those emotions to W does nothing to help you.
So a question if I detach from W will she not just think I have given up on our R
We all have this fear and it [censored] to work through. No, she wont think you have given up, she will see you are moving forward with your life with or without her. She was the one to walk away, not you. You don't give up on someone that fired you. It just doesn't work that way. You not accepting that its over right now is showing you as being weak. Its like you getting fired from your job and then worrying that if you dont go in to do a shift still each day YOU are giving up on the company. You.were.fired.
I am trying to get things right but seem to be getting things wrong. my sister posted some warming comments on my facebook page but my W thought they were a dig at her I told her my sister just cared about me and I have removed them as I do not want to cause upset to W
I am a fixer kind of person and I like to fix things in R I did not like sleeping on problems and would always try to make things right if we had argued.
You don't need to fix this. You are not responsible for your sister or your W's actions. If you sister posts something and it bothers W, why do you feel the need to step in and fix it? Codependency. You could have just said you don't control what your sister does and leave it at that. If W is bothered she can speak to sister.
Please can someone guide me What are my next steps
GAL AND DETACH ?
Yes. You need to get away from these desperate actions. I'm going to be honest here with you. As long as you keep showing this needy desperate man who will do anything to get his W back, she will continue to leave further and lose respect for you. What your doing is not attractive, its not helping you. Every single time you have a R talk with her, even if she initiates it and you get desperate, she is seeing her choice to leave you was the right one. You need to back off and accept your M is dead for right now. You may get the chance to rebuild it, but only if you start following the rules. This is going to be a long hard road and you need alot of work to save yourself first. Forget your W for now.
But she knows whilst we are apart I will always be doing my best to make things right
Why are you trying to "make things right?"
If she always wanted you to bring flowers and you never did, you aren't "making things right" by doing that right now.
Instead think about WHY you didn't bring her flowers before and fix THAT in YOU.
You HAVE (HAVE) to stop trying to fix things with HER. That. Just. Doesn't. Work.
I do realise I cannot fix her only she can do that
I have been looking for local clubs today trying to find ways to GAL
Home and the kids takes up a sizeable amount of my life right now but I am looking to get out a couple of evenings a week
The stupid thing is that we both get on very well we do things in the house for each other it is almost like our R is there except for the intamacy
She is going out more with her friends and is not putting me first .....this is not something that she did when we were M as I was jealous and I guess she wanted to please me by not going out clubbing
I am just going to keep trying to distance myself but living together does make this rather difficult
In some ways I would like for her to experience living without me so she can really see if this is what she wants.
Thanks
Gary
But she knows whilst we are apart I will always be doing my best to make things right
Instead think about WHY you didn't bring her flowers before and fix THAT in YOU.
You HAVE (HAVE) to stop trying to fix things with HER. That. Just. Doesn't. Work.
That's an incredibly profound question Azzork. I'm going to ponder that too. Thank you.
I do realise I cannot fix her only she can do that
Do you ACTUALLY realize that? Are you showing it through your actions? Your W is upset about a FB post and you try to fix it. Your W wants the garage done she can move and you try to fix it. There is no amount of nice that you can be that will change her mind.
I have been looking for local clubs today trying to find ways to GAL
Home and the kids takes up a sizeable amount of my life right now but I am looking to get out a couple of evenings a week
So what have you DONE? Without reading back through all of your threads, all I remember is some hypotheticals. From what I can tell, your W is getting out plenty. Do you enjoy being her babysitter?
The stupid thing is that we both get on very well we do things in the house for each other it is almost like our R is there except for the Intimacy.
I'll bet most here feel the same way. And that friendship IS important. But you've got to back off of it some.
She is going out more with her friends and is not putting me first .....this is not something that she did when we were M as I was jealous and I guess she wanted to please me by not going out clubbing
So why are you still putting HER first?
I am just going to keep trying to distance myself but living together does make this rather difficult
Neither way is easy. If she's with you, she can see changes more readily. But if you don't CHANGE.........
In some ways I would like for her to experience living without me so she can really see if this is what she wants.
Yes. Yes. Yes. That doesn't mean you have to leave. But you have to stop trying to be her husband. You have to let her live her own life. Experience her own problems.
Sorry, I really don't mean to come across harsh. But I want you to look at your first posts here a few weeks ago and this one. What exactly is different?
Thank you for being harsh ....I actually do need this and a good kick up the backside will do me no harm
Ok I am a thinker ...I ponder things and then think how I can make things right
My job as a driving instructor is all about finding solutions to people's problems this is all I do all day
I do realise that I cannot fix her and that she has to do this I guess in the past when we nearly split I was able to ....talk her arround
I went down to Devon for a few days with the kids gave her some space and all she did was fill her day with plans out with mates for lunch and then clubbing in the evening
I have been out a couple of evenings with a friend but did end up talking to him about the situation ...not helpful
My W said that she would go out on a Saturday night and I could go out on the Sunday so so far ther has not been that much babysitting I am however doing a lot more with the kids and,I do enjoy the time spent ...I really enjoy it
I am putting her first because I believed that this would help ...would make a difference ....if i stop putting her first then will she not think we'll he does not want to make,things right ?
I thought that if I spent however doing all the things she wanted me to do during the M then she would think .....he has change...
I am scared that this really is over and I do not know WTF I am going to do....
Ok so tomorrow she wants to go and see her sisters she is taking my 3 Youngest children with her I was thinking on going up with her but feel that I should perhaps just let her go in her own ...my only reservation is duriing our M one of the W concern was I put others in front of H and that she might feel nothing has changed
It's going to be a long road ahead
Thanks for everything
Gary
Thank you for being harsh ....I actually do need this and a good kick up the backside will do me no harm
Ok I am a thinker ...I ponder things and then think how I can make things right
My job as a driving instructor is all about finding solutions to people's problems this is all I do all day
Something many of think early on is that if we do x,y,z the right way, then W will come back. This just isnt the case at all. While you can influence her to come back by DB'ing, she may still never come back. You could do everything possible right and it might mean nothing in terms of you two getting back together. Its mostly out of your control and you have to accept you may have to move on without her in your life.
I do realise that I cannot fix her and that she has to do this I guess in the past when we nearly split I was able to ....talk her arround
I went down to Devon for a few days with the kids gave her some space and all she did was fill her day with plans out with mates for lunch and then clubbing in the evening
I have been out a couple of evenings with a friend but did end up talking to him about the situation ...not helpful
My W said that she would go out on a Saturday night and I could go out on the Sunday so so far ther has not been that much babysitting I am however doing a lot more with the kids and,I do enjoy the time spent ...I really enjoy it
I am putting her first because I believed that this would help ...would make a difference ....if i stop putting her first then will she not think we'll he does not want to make,things right ?
Still thinking in terms of what you think she wants you to do instead of what shes told you what she wants. She wants you to understand you two are no longer together. The only thing she can think later on if you do what SHE WANTS right now is "nice, hes accepted what I wanted or $hit, hes accepted what I wanted". Either way it was her choice, she cant place that back on you. She might try, but it would just be manipulation and her trying to remove her own guilt.
I thought that if I spent however doing all the things she wanted me to do during the M then she would think .....he has change...
Before DB that would have been great, now not so much. Time and a place. You can do some of these things if they don't come off as full pursuit (which is whats happening now). Focus on the things shes said that don't directly relate to her.
For instance, say she complained you didn't rub her back. DONT go around offering her rubs every second she looks uncomfortable.
If she complained about you treating the kids better, DO treat the kids better.
You have to change for yourself using her complaints through the M but doing in a way that is respecting her choice to leave you. You dont have to agree or like shes leaving you, but you do have to respect her right to make that choice. You have to show her (through actions) you are changing for you and your own future and not just to get her back.
I am scared that this really is over and I do not know WTF I am going to do....
It is over, for right now. I understand how hard that is to accept, its something I'm still trying to process. That I may have to continue my life without my W. It takes time to accept this and even longer to not feel any pain from it. Focus on you and the day to day moving forward and in time you will get to a place where you can move on without her, if that's what happens.
Ok so tomorrow she wants to go and see her sisters she is taking my 3 Youngest children with her I was thinking on going up with her but feel that I should perhaps just let her go in her own ...my only reservation is duriing our M one of the W concern was I put others in front of H and that she might feel nothing has changed
Did she ask you to come? If not theres no reason for you to go.
It's going to be a long road ahead
Yep, but trust this process and you will be great in the end. Like me, I think you have lots to discover about yourself and those changes will come in time if you let them. You are going to learn so much about who you are and what you are capable of in life.
Thanks for everything
Gary
Ok I am a thinker ...I ponder things and then think how I can make things right
Fine. But clearly the things YOU think are going to work in your favor just aren't. You need to adjust your frame of reference from trying to make your wife happy to trying to attract a girl that isn't into you. A lot of thought is necessary for this process. But if you are thinking the wrong way, you just can't make progress.
I do realise that I cannot fix her and that she has to do this I guess in the past when we nearly split I was able to ....talk her arround
Once the perceived pain of leaving is lower than the pain in staying, change happens.
I went down to Devon for a few days with the kids gave her some space and all she did was fill her day with plans out with mates for lunch and then clubbing in the evening
I have been out a couple of evenings with a friend but did end up talking to him about the situation ...not helpful
You can't try to GAL for HER. It just has to be for you. For you to have fun and regain your confidence and improve yourself, you need to be able to have times where you just don't think about all of the awfulness going on around you for an hour or two. If you can do that with the kids , fine. But it's so critical to get time off.
I am putting her first because I believed that this would help ...would make a difference ....if i stop putting her first then will she not think we'll he does not want to make,things right ?
I thought that if I spent however doing all the things she wanted me to do during the M then she would think .....he has change...
You HAVE GOT to stop thinking of her as your wife. That's really all there is to it. She is now a girl that you like that is not that into you. The more you chase and chase after her, the more she will try to run away from you. I KNOW it's counter intuitive. I know. Your focus should be on you and your kids.
I am scared that this really is over and I do not know WTF I am going to do....
Are you sitting down?
Are you?
I'm going to let you in on a secret. It's ALREADY over. The marriage you cherish is over.
I'm sorry, but it's true.
That doesn't mean that you and your W can't start a new marriage that could be even BETTER than the one you had. But you have to come to grips that you will never have THAT marriage again. And the sooner you realize that, the better off you will be.
Now, what are you going to do? Hopefully, you can learn from all the people here trying to help you. You can get a life. You can become the person you want to be. Then, who knows. You may not even want your wife back after all of that!
It's going to be a long road ahead
Buckle up.
So last night she went out with a friend to a party came in at I do not know what time well after 2 am. She is certainly moving on it just seems all this is happening so quickly .....when we were together she never stayed out late and now it seems every oppertunity ....[censored] she could let the dust settle just a little from finishing things to moving on
Ok,so,normally I would fire her 20 questions as to what whe did who she saw what time she came in ......I say nothing ....right ?
What if she brings it up do I say ...look I am really not interested in hearing about it as long as you had a good time that is what matters. ?
I know I cannot who any upset about this
Can I also ask and I am sure this has been asked before what are people's views on keeping my ring on she took hers off a while ago she was constantly washing her hands she works with babies and she said her finger was cracking under the ring from getting damp
I want to wear my ring but I am not sure if it is just to remind me what I have lost will it give her the message that I have given up on our marriage and I am moving on if I remove it
I hear from the last few posts that my current marriage has gone and I know I have to accept this
If you want to wear your ring wear it. I took mine when I kicked H out as for me there was no trust, so it was my way to tell him that at the present time we were no longer married.
He took his two months later, and saying that it didn't hurt would be a lie but I guess it's his way to tell me it's over.
I would say that people wear/ don't wear ring for different reason. One of my fiend takes her ring every time we go out!
Don't worry about the ring, it's just a jewellery. Actions are what matters
Ghost
While you're in the same house it's nigh on impossible to fully detach....
As far as the ring , my wife removed hers while we lived together. It was just another action which confirmed her affair.
I kept mine on till I left 6 weeks later. More because it upset my daughter that my wife took hers off.
Now my ring means zero to me. It meant zero to her even though she continued to profess she missed it and loved it blah blah
I'll trade the gold in at some point.
Again it's entirely up to you but be under no illusion, wearing it don't mean sh1t to your wife. You need to get that in your head. She doesn't care. So if youre wearing it in hope she'll notice and suddenly coming running back....don't hold your breath. Me and lots of others have done the same with the same outcome.
Sorry to be so blunt.
Thank you for getting back to me the wearing of the ring is not so she notices it was more that I did not want to give her the impression that I felt the M was over well i realise that this M is over and she is not going to be coming back to it any time soon. I am still hoping that over time she will see and like my perminant changes enough that she may want to be with me in the future any way have decided to take off Ring
So I have a quesrion or 2 on GAL
As you may know we are living in the same house when it comes to going out and doing things obviously I have to think of my four children and being there for them....this was one of the things my wife said was the cause of her deciding to S was me not spending enough time with them so I have changed my working hours so I am arround at breakfast time so that I am always there
How many days should I look to GAL each week do I suggest 3 days each or just see how it lays.. currently we have suggested she does a Saturday I do a Sunday evening
The other was me.not spending enough time with her making Her feel loved and cherished so I know I cannot do anything about W
Tomorrow I will be seeing if there is a jujitsu club locally amd I am going to speak to my tennis club about starting tennis again
Thanks for all your help
Gary
My days at the moment are all the very same
On a school day
Wake up 7 am do some house work put on a load of washing
Get kids up and ready for school
I go off to work
Get home about 4pm
Take S to tennis
Get home 7.30 to 8.30 depending on his session
Have something yo eat
Talk to W
Perhaps watch some TV with or with out W
Then Bed. ......Was and is not much of a life
Ready for the next day where it all starts again like a scan from Groundhog Day
Now we are on summer holidays and S is not doing his tennis
So evenings we are arround together from 4 pm So I have been trying yo do more with my children from 4 pm taking them to park taking baby out for a walk going with my Eldest D to her horse
So my question is if I am trying to detach from W ....Do I do more things for myself in the evenings ...
Looking back on my M and what has been happening over the past year or so I have been doing this I have been playing tennis on a Tuesday and Thursday night and was not spending time with my W .....I was putting myself first
I guess she feels that I have been detaching from her by not spending time with her
She has been feeling lonely
Now I am being told to GAL and to Detach but is this not exactly what I was doing too get to this situation over the last year or so.
I am struggling to see how going back to what I was doing before is going to make this any better or am I missing something
I am confused
Please can anyone advise me
Many thanks
Gary
Find a balance that works for you. If doing things on your own was an issue from the M then it could be seen as a problem now also. BUT, not if it was because you weren't spending time with her. That ship has sailed and she doesn't want you to spend time with her anymore.
Also, stop thinking about giving her the impression that you have given up on the M. SHE ENDED THE M, THERE IS NOTHING TO GIVE UP ON. You want to get to the point where she feels you are moving on with or without her, that you accept and respect her decision to end the M. That you will be ok no matter what. Its counter-intuitive but its the mindset you need to get into. Especially if she begins dating.
If the issue was you didn't spend time with the kids, then yes spend more time with the kids. No one is saying go full GAL for yourself. Do much more GAL with the kids than you did before but add in some time for yourself also. You need to enjoy life and find something to do. If one or two nights alone seems reasonable right now, do that.
Ghost
Agree with Fogg, there is nothing to give up on. Your wife has made that decision for you for what ever reason.
You now need to decide what are you going to do? stick around and keep on dancing? Till she starts seeing another man (if she isnt already)? or brings him home? you still going to put with that?
Its sh1t but you need to get the mindset of what am I going to do to move forward, not how can i impress my wife back into the marriage because it doesnt work.
Think of you, your kids and your future.
She wants out of the marriage? ...let her have it..let her have what she wants....you cant force someone to do what they dont want to do. Step away from the all the drama
I would definatley get all my ducks in row, seek legal advice about where you stand regarding your children and finance.
I danced for 6 months before i found out my wife was having an affair. I bent over backwards doing everything she had previously complained of. It was just bullsh1t from her....It made absolutley zero difference apart from me disrespecting myself. The pain started to stop once i decided i would not put up with her cr@p any longer. So i gave her what she wanted and moved out. I've gone NC apart from child and finace stuff. Its the best thing I've done.
So update on my life
Last night I had a panic attak I think I must have woken up at 4.30am screeming because the W came upstairs and led me back to bed and she layed next to me for the rest of the night
My day has been pretty much like any others but I did join a local gym I have my induction on Thursday so will start there after thursday
I have been trying to give W space today in the house as this is what she asked for
I have reduced my work Hoursn down to spend more time with my children but this does mean I am about W a little more but have been trying to keep out of her way
I want to wear my ring but I am not sure if it is just to remind me what I have lost will it give her the message that I have given up on our marriage and I am moving on if I remove it
Have you read the link on what detachment really means?
As you may know we are living in the same house when it comes to going out and doing things obviously I have to think of my four children and being there for them....this was one of the things my wife said was the cause of her deciding to S was me not spending enough time with them so I have changed my working hours so I am arround at breakfast time so that I am always there
How does she act with you always being there? Has she said anything about it, other than asking for more space?
How many days should I look to GAL each week do I suggest 3 days each or just see how it lays.. currently we have suggested she does a Saturday I do a Sunday evening
Suggest to whom, your W? Don't spend all your GAL with kids. To me, that's not GAL, that's just being a parent.
The other was me.not spending enough time with her making Her feel loved and cherished so I know I cannot do anything about W
Has she actually said she wants you to spend more time with her
NOW? Has she told you she wants you to do things to cause her to feel more love & cherished
NOW? When she complained about this, was it not in regards to the past, before she wanted to separate?
Hi sandi2
I have read the link on detachment I will re read it to try to understand further
I have now taken off my ring I think I was mainly keeping it on to remind me what I had lost and to channel my thought on keeping doing all the right things things that I should have done in the past but I realise I do not need a ring to do this.
She acts fine arround me to be honest. We get along well. We are not fighting she still cooks for me and I cook for her and our children she does my laundry and I do hers. I know he mindset and mine are at different points. I think she is happy that I am arround in the mornings to help with the breakfast and the school runs and it is nice for me to see the kids before they go off to school.
She wanted her own space which his fair enough so I have started to convert the home office into a downstairs bedrrom I guess the point I was making was during the M she felt I was not there for her enough I did not spend the quality of tie with her to make her feel special and when she dropped the B I flipped myself 180 and was trying to spend a lot of my time in her company and she felt I was crowding her so I now try to give her more space as this is what she asked for.
No she has not asked me to do more things with her she has not asked me to try to make her feal loved and cherished NOW this was what she wated during the M. Now she says do not worry about me you need to be there for the kids become w better father.
I know I have to detach I will re read the thread on detaching but it is just so hard to let go on a relationship of 25 years
Day to day I honestly do not know how I am going to cope with us not being an us
Having the support from here is keeping me going
Thank you
Gary
I have a question re GAL
my W suggested that she goes out on Saturday nights and I go out Sunday nights she has got plans for two weeks time but I have a friend that wants me to go out with him on the same Saturday night what do you think I should do if I go out then this may/will cause her problems with her going out but in the same breath I would like to see a friend and start GAL Myself
Just make sure you're taking off the ring because that's what you want. Not to get a reaction from W or prove anything to anyone.
Detaching is a long difficult process and something that won't happen overnight. GAL and finding what you love to do, being happy, these are ways you detach over time. Respecting your W's decision to leave you and showing her and yourself you can live without her if needed.
We tell you the M is over and this is the truth. At this point in she wants to be single. However, don't confuse letting go for giving up. You let go of what happens with her and accept she may never come back. She might, things change. You can always keep hope the two of you will end up together and have a chance to rebuild a new M. Nothing wrong with that,it's what I still pray for daily. It's what I ultimately want. I'm just not in denial that this may not happen,but I will be ok either way. Just like you will. Time will heal the wounds, you just have to take it day by day.
You have a few options if you do want to go.
Talk to her and see if there is a way both of you can have your plan. Work together.
Find a baby sitter and go out with your friend.
See if your friend can go out another night.
However, you can't just go with thd friend and screw her plans over when she let you know of them in advance, that wouldn't be respectful. Nothing wrong with wanting to see your friend but you have to work with her still because of the children. If her taking all Saturdays will conflict with you work it out with her to maybe swap each week.
Fogg
Thank you for your support I am greatful
We are at 2 completely different points
I want to work to saving the M and She is looking at moving forward with little or no interest in saving it
I do not see a way back from this so got to try to move on
Thank you all
Will post again soon
I am a long way from giving up I just do not have any idea how long she can walk away before she will never turn back she might be at this point already I just feel the longer she walks the further she will go and the less chance I will have of her coming back
Sorry to go on
Gary
I keep reading the rules and I am trying my best to follow them
but I want to want to write her a letter apologising for how I made her do feel during the M
I want to write saying things will be different
To let her know I have made mistakes and not been the husband I should have been
To remind her the good times
I feel othe best years of our M was still to come
Remind her of our wedding vows for better or worse in sickness and in health
This cannot be the best for our children
I know it is not the best for me surely after 17 years marriage there has to be a part of her that still would consider my needs and feelings I inow I still consider hers
I know she is so very sad for making this choice
Deep down I know she still loves me
BUT I KNOW I CANNOT DO THIS
[censored] [censored] [censored] why did I [censored] this up
Ghost,
I wrote that exact letter to my WW. It did not do a thing to help the situation. Of course, my WW was having an EA so it may be different for you. I would wait to get advice from a vet before doing it.
Write any letter you want and put it on here as as outlet but don't send it or give it to her. That would be full of you pursuit and more of the same to her. Here's the thing. She knows you love her,she knows you want to do anything so save the M, everything you said, she knows you will say that. She doesn't want/doesn't believe it. Everytime you say "things will be different" you are showing her they wont. You want to save your M, stop talking.
Consistent actions over time are what will show her. Not just a few weeks but months and months. When you change for yourself, that is the only time she can believe you will.
Here's an example. You said before she was angry that you put yourself first and didn't consider her. Right now she wants to be single and separate. You want to be M. You not accepting her feeling and still putting yourself first,that is showing you haven't changed.
Move forward with your life and change, for you. It may just be what saves your M.
I am a long way from giving up I just do not have any idea how long she can walk away before she will never turn back she might be at this point already I just feel the longer she walks the further she will go and the less chance I will have of her coming back
Sorry to go on
Gary
Ghost - here's my advice to you: "Give Up". You have to find it in yourself to let go of this marriage so that you can stop looking at everything you do through the lens of what she is doing. We are ALL here because we made mistakes. None of us can go back and change the past. All we can do is learn from it and move forward. I believe that by trying to hold on to your marriage so tightly, it's causing you to not be able to change you. Your whole focus in all of your threads is on changing your wife's mind. The only way to do that is to change YOU. And I truly believe the only way to do THAT is to let go.
It's so incredibly hard to do. But that's my advice.
Edit to add that what I said ^^^ does not mean that you will never be happily married to her again. But I believe you have to treat your old marriage as a dead entity and what I wrote above is the only way for a new, better marriage to be reborn.
Azzork
Do you think I should move to my parents house
Azzork
Do you think I should move to my parents house
That's tough to answer. Generally, I would say no. But I would get thoughts from others.
My point was that you are so focused on saving your marriage, that you are having a difficult time with actually looking within to change. From what I read, you keep hoping SHE will change. But YOU have to change first.
Azzork
How long does it take for me to change I know I have been changing with what I have been doing arround the house and the things that I hqve been doing for the kidsbut I know that right now she does not believe my changes I inow I need time
I do not know if moving home is the answer I just want to give her space and stop my pain I do not know if moving home will be the answer
I know I somehow have to move on why does moving on feel like giving up giving her space how does that not equate to her going out and dating and moving on without me
I am so so sorry for keep going on about this
Sorry
Gary
I realise I have to GAL AND MOVE ON
this has been the advice that has been given for a long time
And I need to accept that things are over I do not want to move to my parents house I feel this will be a backwards step
I do not think my changes will be enough for her but then I am making the changes for me so we will see what time brings
My W wanted to go for a walk today so I knew we would possibly end up talking she she said that she could see that I had been upset erlier and did not want me to keep getting upset as this is hurting her.
she said she could see that I was making an effort to be arround for the children more but felt that I was still not doing enough with the baby she also said she noticed that I have been doing more with the housework but she also said I was still not doing enough.
She then went on to say that she had been so unhappy in our marriage over many years that she will never be coming back to me she wanted to make this as clear as possible so I stop hurting myself ....I really did not realise just how unhappy she had been it must have been terrible living with me for her to feel like this.
She then said if we had not had the children then she would have left me a long time ago
So now I have to decide what happens next
Do we cohabit live together in a loveless relationship indefinitely for the children neither of us want to be 3.5 day parents I know if we sell and move into smaller houses the financial implications will be huge .....she feels she will be able to get a 3 day live in nanny job paying arround £200 per day so she feels that if she works on the days that I have the kids then she will not struggle so much I think that theese jobs are few and far between but we will see.
She said she hopes that I meet someone else someone that can give me the love that I want she says that she is not looking for another man and that I have put her right off that idea.
I do not want to be away from my children so I am really not sure what will happen now
Thank you for your support but I believe that my W has firmly made up her mind about this and I do know her.... she rarely if ever changes it once it is made up.
Thank you
Gary
Azzork
How long does it take for me to change I know I have been changing with what I have been doing arround the house and the things that I hqve been doing for the kidsbut I know that right now she does not believe my changes I inow I need time
you've been married 17 years. You've been here less than a month. I don't think your sample size is large enough to suggest permanent change to your wife. Especially if you've been down this road before.
I do not know if moving home is the answer I just want to give her space and stop my pain I do not know if moving home will be the answer
how does moving home stop your pain? The only way to stop the pain is to feel better about yourself. Get yourself a life. Make changes you can be proud of. You'll see that the pain is still there, but it's more of a dull ache than sharp pangs.
I know I somehow have to move on why does moving on feel like giving up giving her space how does that not equate to her going out and dating and moving on without me
who's telling you to move on? Nobody is saying to go out and start dating or anything like that. You still want this relationship, right? But you are being told that you have to live your life for YOU. You can't live through the lens of married Ghost anymore.
I am so so sorry for keep going on about this
Sorry
Gary
Thank you azzork
From my previous,post I am now ready to GAL,
My wife says I am crowding her and that since asking to S I have been arround her all the time I do not see it like that however if this is how she sees it then I want to go almost full non contact I lwill still be polite but I am going to initiate anything ufn
I will give her the space she wants
Thank you
Gary
Does the above sound right I don't want to come across as cold but I think if I stop asking her to do anything then she can decide if we do anything together hopefully this will give her the space she needs
I realise I have to GAL AND MOVE ON
this has been the advice that has been given for a long time
And I need to accept that things are over I do not want to move to my parents house I feel this will be a backwards step
I do not think my changes will be enough for her but then I am making the changes for me so we will see what time brings
My W wanted to go for a walk today so I knew we would possibly end up talking she she said that she could see that I had been upset erlier and did not want me to keep getting upset as this is hurting her.
she said she could see that I was making an effort to be arround for the children more but felt that I was still not doing enough with the baby she also said she noticed that I have been doing more with the housework but she also said I was still not doing enough.
She then went on to say that she had been so unhappy in our marriage over many years that she will never be coming back to me she wanted to make this as clear as possible so I stop hurting myself ....I really did not realise just how unhappy she had been it must have been terrible living with me for her to feel like this.
She then said if we had not had the children then she would have left me a long time ago
So now I have to decide what happens next
Do we cohabit live together in a loveless relationship indefinitely for the children neither of us want to be 3.5 day parents I know if we sell and move into smaller houses the financial implications will be huge .....she feels she will be able to get a 3 day live in nanny job paying arround £200 per day so she feels that if she works on the days that I have the kids then she will not struggle so much I think that theese jobs are few and far between but we will see.
She said she hopes that I meet someone else someone that can give me the love that I want she says that she is not looking for another man and that I have put her right off that idea.
I do not want to be away from my children so I am really not sure what will happen now
Thank you for your support but I believe that my W has firmly made up her mind about this and I do know her.... she rarely if ever changes it once it is made up.
Thank you
Gary
Hi can anyone give me some feedback on this post please
Ghost
there's nothing to save here. Your marriage as you knew it is dead in the water. Stop blaming yourself for that. A marriage is 50/50. She could have spoke up at any time over the years to tell you how unhappy she was.
She has told you point blank she wants out so, as before let her have what she wants.
Gain your balls and self respect back. I absolutely promise you when you move on, over time it gets easier and you start to become a better person. In the depths of my darkness 6 months ago I would never have thought it possible. I'm not saying you give up but you need to live your own life. What you are doing right now is not working. Women are not attracted to needy men. end of. They are attracted to confident men.
I would not recommend staying in a loveless marriage for sake of the kids. Its does not work for a million reasons but especially when your wife will meet someone else which rest assured she will. What you going to do then? Be her BFF?
Make a plan, legal advice, financial advice, child care write it down and execute it.
Don't worry about the what ifs, you cant live your life on what if's
as far the bullsh!t your wife is spewing about you meeting someone else and she's off the idea of men blah blah, I heard the same cr@p from mine before I found out about her affair. Just a precautionary tale...
Your marriage as you knew it is dead in the water. Stop blaming yourself for that. A marriage is 50/50. She could have spoke up at any time over the years to tell you how unhappy she was.
I was reading a book yesterday (totally unrelated to this) and I found this passage so meaningful:
"There are plenty of people out there judging us every day of our lives and for every move we make. The gods of guilt are many. You don't need to add to them."
You contributed to your part of the failings of your marriage. But recognize it, fix it and move forward.
Thank you for your feedback
Some days I find it just so lonley
Going out tomorrow night to a local meet up group
Should cheer me up
Hi
Tomorrow evening I have arranged to meet up with some new people via a social networking group small steps for Gal
Trying to ignore the things that she is getting up to and where she is going
Time to make ghost into the man he always wanted to be.
Starting to Move forward with detaching
Thank you for your support
Gary
Good job Ghost. This is all really hard stuff for everyone on this board. Usually us LBS take the blame for what went wrong, but we can't fix the past. We just can't.
Keep moving forward, and working on being the best version of you you can - even better than the best version of you you've ever been!
PP
Hi I realise this marriage is over it has been extremely hard for me to come to terms with this and I still cannot quite believe there is nothing I can do right now to try to turn things around.
So what are my next steps ??
We are living together and will continue to do something whilst we are getting along. We have four children 2 years old 12year old 14 year old and 17 year old
What should I be doing over the coming months to to try to build on a new relationship with W is there anything ?
She tells me that she is not attracted to me anymore and that it was going over the last few years
We do get along with each other I am just not sure that I can manage to adjust our relationship from married to friends ...tho I realise right now I do not have any say in it
Is it harder or easier to D'bust when living together
Is it even possible for an attraction to be formed again ?
I would be greatful for any advice ....I do not want to move on sell the house and split up our family if we do this then I will see even less of my children so will she and I am thinking if I am lonley now it will be much more lonley in seperate houses
Many thanks
Gary
We do get along with each other I am just not sure that I can manage to adjust our relationship from married to friends ...tho I realise right now I do not have any say in it
What do you mean you have no say in it? You have a say about your life. You just have to start thinking about what you want -- other than the marriage. Get beyond that point, and think about what you want without a marriage involved.
From my observation, living under the same roof is much more difficult on the LBH, b/c the BS can't see themselves as "separated" and the family is still thrown together as a unit. The LBH sees the WW dating and contacting her lover and doing whatever she pleases......while continuing to take advantage of having a H, without the responsibility or commitment from her. The state of limbo can last for years under these conditions. However, let me quickly add, before a man decides to be the one to leave the home, he better check with his lawyer to see if this could go against him in any legal way.
I am not promoting separation. I'm just stating what I have observed. Many men have said it is easier to detach when they don't reside under the same roof with the wayward. Plus, as long as she has all the advantages of living with you, she's not going to really experience life without you, is she? IMO, when a WW won't come to her senses, then she needs to actually experience what she wanted.....which is a life apart from her H and the M. When that reality hits her hard enough, it has a way of breaking up a lot of that fog.
Are you still sleeping together and having sex?
Ghost
The thing is how long do you stick it out? You can do what ever you like. Stay together as friends for the rest of your lives but is that a life you want to live?
I'm probably not the best person to offer advice here as my wife was having an affair so my circumstances are different.
My point is though I couldn't have stuck it out for much longer the way it was before I found out. We got on very well did stuff as a family but the intimate connection between us had gone a long time ago. We were just house mates. Its no life to lead
If you are determined to push on then, as per DBing and advice from others you need to let her go, stop with any neediness, stop with any R talks and be the best you can be for your kids. Re-read Sandis rules.
Its a very tall order while you live together as she isn't actually missing anything. You're still there every day but maybe who knows she might change her mind.
Non of us on here wanted to sell our houses, tear families and friendships apart but those were the hands we were dealt and yes I see my daughter 50% of the time now. Thing is I actually have better quality time with her now as i make the most of it.
Hi
We are not sleeping together or having sex any more this stopped at the time of Separation
I think what I ment was I do not have a say in making her change her mind sure I have a choice in what happens in my life
I realise my current M is finished
I suppose what I was thinking was if it would be possible to try and build things again with her over a period of a few years
I will keep working with the rules and I guess time will be the deciding factor
Sure if she decides to move things further with another relationship with another man then I would have to reassess things
Right now it feels like my life is over ....even tho I have four beautiful kids I just do not want to invisige life in two separate houses away from W
But I am out tonight meeting lots of new people at a social group so hopefully this will cheer me up
Thanks
Gary
Hi Ghost
OK, the part about not being attracted to you etc. is part of the script. My W has used this line a number of times, mainly when I was needy, to get me to go away. Don't panic. Have a look through my sitch (there is ten parts so far!) and you will see how I have been through a lot of the things you're going through now.
We're separated, but still in the same house. My W has shown signs of wanting back, then got scared, and it starts all over again. Some of this is my fault, as I have maybe shown too much enthusiasm etc.
Yes, pulling back whilst in the same house is difficult. I get you. At the minute you're scared of losing your W, family etc. This is the difficult bit. You have to get over the fear of D. That is going to take you weeks. It's not easy to do, and you will make mistakes. The important thing is to apply Sandi2's rules and really, really, detach.
I'll check in to see how you're doing.
The lack of atttaction, may be partly script, however,for the WW or WAW it is mostly truth. It does not mean you are ugly or have no sex appeal to someone else. It means for her the attraction is gone. For a woman, it is tied into her respect.....or lack of respect for him as a man.
To answer your question about over time winning her back, you first get her respect and attraction. The rest will follow.....unless she is too screwed up.
Ghost
Sandi is right
As per my earlier
"Women are not attracted to needy men. end of. They are attracted to confident men"
They want a man they can respect and respects them.
Its just fact, laws of nature.
Think back to what your wife was first attracted to you.. I bet it wasn't because you begged her to go out with you...id put money on because you were confident and interesting maybe even a bit hard to get ??
So if you are determined to try and save your marriage then you need to become that man again.
How do you do this when you're in the same house and walking on eggs shells all the time analysing every little thing she says or does? pfff I just don't know buddy.
Its very very hard.
Huddy thank you for checking in I will take a read of your sitch
It's the detaching that is the difficult bit
Came In from my night out W asked me nothing about it which is fine
We then spent about 30 mins just chatting about her day and what she has been doing with the kids I was able to speak quite freely and the conversation flowed ...I guess this is not detaching ?
Sandi2 She has mentioned the respect and lack of it during one of our conversations since S
When I think about my situation it is so similar to many ....one has to wonder why many of us make the same mistakes
Because we're human and we all do the same things
Ontheup thank you
You are spot on with your comments
Today when I was chatting to her it was more like old days I almost forgot we were S for a while during the convo
Defiantly got to stay away from the egg shells
And try to be myself whilst giving her respect all without perusing her
Huddy I was up till 3 am reading your stich to part 5 you are amazing and have come a long way
So the main question I have is I see a big differnce between how you have been dealing with things and how I have
The conversation between my W and I Flows and it always has sence S we both want to stay in the house and get along for the kids
We both want different end goals
I know if I start detaching and doing less for her and not talking to her this will change the dynamics of my position I fully believe that if I do this and change how she feels about being here then she would not think twice about selling the house
Many of the kind people here have been telling me over and over to move on and I am starting to feel less pain ....they must be getting sick of me not listening fully
I do know I can have no more R conversations with her
Fogg you say I need to get to the position where she feels I am moving on with our without her the difficult thing for me is to know "what is moving on"
I want to continue to have her and the kids under the same roof where I hope I'm can build a R over time however I have to let go of the current R And M
So what does letting go mean
Hi Ghost,
I've been busy with things in RL and could not post here as often, but wanted to check in on your situation.
I'm going to give you a post about GAL later. But for now, have to say that is the single biggest most important thing YOU CAN DO to really detach.
You must GAL to Detach....
(I don't believe you Can detach without GAL.)
GAL + PMA + Time = Detachment and sometimes, contentment.
Hi I realise this marriage is over it has been extremely hard for me to come to terms with this and I
still cannot quite believe there is nothing I can do right now to try to turn things around.
The issue you are struggling with is misdirected. You THINK that if you fix You, then she will come back. Almost like an equation
but I'm telling you 2 things you are slipping past...
1) work on You FOR YOU. TO become the best You that you can be and that always always means your life is better. It's always worth it.
2) When you make the changes that are needed, (for you to really self actualize)
then you are going to have to turn all this over to the Universe -
(or God or "the Big Guy" or whatever you call the "Source of all", ETC) but let it go
Turn it over, hold your head high and go in peace.
Because then and only then, will you have done all you can do...and thus, must let the rest go and make the best of the remaining years on earth.
Paradoxically, once you have let her go and put your focus on YOUR LIFE and YOUR YEARS HERE...it may awaken her.
It may not. But imo, the best chance of getting her back and working on the r, is when you let go of it to work on You
and stop "Fixing" her, which has never worked and has been a destructive force in your m.
If she does not awaken and want to reconcile, then so be it.
You will still be so much better off than if you continue to spin your wheels in misery and radiate your neediness to your w AND kids.
Also, the "father time" -- first, do your absolute best. Are you?
I can't tell if this is all new to you or if you are doing fine. But it will bring you comfort and lessen your loneliness. 4 kids?! What a blast!
However, I'm not crazy about the constant feedback from your w, about how you parent.
At some point, you will need to tell her that while you know she truly means well --really = you want to work this out yourself, getting to know each child, problem solving together, exploring and playing cultivating a one on one with each,
(which your wife is NOT a part of & would not have been part of inside the m either. This is Your Territory)
and thus, you are "not inviting comment"..
besides... is becoming the best DAD you can become, something she's an expert in?
OR Do you need her feedback for now? If so, can you explain why?
So what are my next steps ??
see ^^ and below
GAL + PMA + TIME...= a Happier ------DETACHED Ghost...We are living together and will continue to do something whilst we are getting along. We have four children 2 years old 12year old 14 year old and 17 year old
What should I be doing over the coming months
to to try to build on a new relationship with W is there anything ?
STOP making the R with her your focus! 
Your focus is NOT HER LIFE or a Relationship with her. Your focus is YOUR LIFE...
YOU MUST SEE THIS^^^^...She tells me that she is not attracted to me anymore and that it was going over the last few years
We do get along with each other I am just not sure that I can manage to adjust our relationship from married to friends ...tho I realise right now I do not have any say in it
Is it harder or easier to D'bust when living together
Is it even possible for an attraction to be formed again ?
I would be greatful for any advice ....I do not want to move on sell the house and split up our family if we do this then I will see even less of my children so will she and I am thinking if I am lonley now it will be much more lonley in seperate houses
Many thanks
Gary
Fogg you say I need to get to the position where she feels I am moving on with our without her the difficult thing for me is to know "what is moving on"
Good question. How about Releasing your wife to her "mission"? Let her go. Maybe she will find treasure in her journey, maybe she will see it in you OR maybe not...but you Must let her go..
Not b/c you don't care
but b/c she insists on it and you are listening to & abiding by her demand.
I want to continue to have her and the kids under the same roof where I hope I'm can build a R over time however I have to let go of the current R And M
So what does letting go mean
In some ways it's like seeing your child off to college. They are on a "mission" but you cannot go with them on it. It's a puzzle she has to solve herself, you cannot be standing over her shoulder to move a piece to "Solve it" (FIXING)
she has to do this herself.
Let her work on the puzzle while you find one for yourself. We will call your puzzle, GAL + PMA
and helping you actually LIVE ^^^that
Sandi, in addition to the 37 rules, GAL etc how does one get back this respect? Are there certain things that can be done specifically for that? I'll post a more specific version of this q on my thread later, so as not to hyjack ghosts thread.
Best of luck ghost. Limbo is tough.
Hi Sandi2
Not wanting to hijack Ghost's thread, and by reading your rules, the respect thing is tied to confidence. I finally feel I am now regaining my confidence and people at work have said that. Onwards!
Huddy so many things you have written about I can see your strength
Hi Ghost
This situation we are all in stinks. We are going to make big mistakes. I did one this week, where I took some of my W's retracing as 'good' and was too enthusiastic. She pulled back, we argued and I'm back at least four weeks.
Keep going. You can pull this off, it's just a question of time and patience.
Hey huddy your not wrong there ....
Just been trying to give my W as much space as I can
Been at work most of the day then I get home do some house work and make the boys tea W and eldest D are going out for a meal tonight
TBH I find my days are all pretty much the same where as I used to
Get up leave for work before kids were awake and then get home at 4 take S to his tennis get home for arround 8
Play a couple of games on the computer
Sometimes chat to W sometimes not so much
Then bed ...not much of a life
Now Get up do some housework make breakfast for those that wish to be downstairs go to work come home play with kids for a bit then I might do bath time and bed time with youngest and then tidy house a little more then bed so even now I think ...no wonder our M went down hill I really do not know when we were suppost to do the fun things
So now I am advised to GAL and focus on me and I get this but during the M
I used to go out twice a week and play tennis and do things for me and not as a couple one of the things my W said I put myself and my hobbies before her and her needs....can't change this now
So working on detaching and putting my focus into spending more quality time with my children
Hey huddy your not wrong there ....
Just been trying to give my W as much space as I can
Been at work most of the day then I get home do some house work and make the boys tea W and eldest D are going out for a meal tonight
TBH I find my days are all pretty much the same
this^^ is YOUR Life and you are responsible for changing it. Why are all your days the same?
Ghost, YOU have to change your life and yourself. There is no way around that. What are the obstacles to this?
where as I used to
Get up leave for work before kids were awake and then get home at 4 take S to his tennis get home for arround 8
Play a couple of games on the computer
Sometimes chat to W sometimes not so much
Then bed ...not much of a life
Now Get up do some housework make breakfast for those that wish to be downstairs go to work come home play with kids for a bit then I might do bath time and bed time with youngest and then tidy house a little more then bed so even now I think ...no wonder our M went down hill I really do not know when we were suppost to do the fun things
You are not alone in this situation but the thing is, you CAN do a lot more than you are seeing.
So now I am advised to GAL and focus on me and I get this but during the M
I used to go out twice a week and play tennis and do things for me and not as a couple one of the things my W said I put myself and my hobbies before her and her needs....can't change this now
it contradicts what you described above, ^^, btw.
So working on detaching and putting my focus into spending more quality time with my children
GAL is NOT the same as spending more time with the children, it's called parenting.
It's valuable for you and the kids. True, it's pretty darn important to their mothers - and it's a turn on to see your children lovingly interact with their father.
But it's for the children AND YOU that you are more involved.
Maybe you can schedule something with the younger ones,
and figure out what the older ones would enjoy doing on a 2 x a month basis*** (***I can't speak for your older kids obviously, but I've found they usually are not as interested in "dad time" as the younger ones are. But they'll do it if it's not too much. This varies!)
But for GAL ---
You need to JOIN something
or EXPLORE something
or STUDY something
or COACH something
or VOLUNTEER somewhere
or WORK somewhere....
meet new people who do Not know your situation and CHANGE YOUR LIFE.
The sooner the better. That's also for your children to see b/c you are modeling for them
what a man of strength and honor does when he's facing a huge setback.
Do you curl up in the fetal position and whine
OR
do you make the needed changes and adapt to your new life as you direct it the way you want it to go?
Ghost, I have an analogy I hope will assist you in viewing this situation.
What if your life were a novel?
How would you say this chapter is going? (Not so great, eh?)
How would you like the story to go?
What about the next chapters and ultimately the epilogue?
WHO IS THE AUTHOR OF YOUR LIFE? How can you change the story?
Ghost, YOU must be the author
of your life's book. Start now. Change the way the next chapter goes.
Let it begin tomorrow...(or tonight, if need be).
Make sense?
Last but not least, here's what I said I'd post...
For GAL suggestions, let me mention some of what I did when we lived in the interior of Alaska, even in the winter.
I had 3 kids, including a baby, so please don't tell me how hard it is to GAL when you have children or how busy you are. This is not a Herculean task. Sure, it's uncomfortable and sometimes it's a little frightening. But imo
Inertia is the greatest enemy to GAL.
Overcome that, & you'll be well on your way to a happier, more fulfilling life.
IMO, the more you overcome inertia, the better your R's will be with all people, including your w.
So--
I volunteered at a battered women's shelter.
I coached a girl's softball team for two summers (my older D was on it).
I was on the board of directors for Wrestling, ( our son wrestled).
I auditioned for community theater and met some fun creative people. I got cast often, too.
I did stand up comedy (and yes, I still do it). I did a whole set once on a MLCs at the Improv in Hollywood. It went very well.
I learned to cross country ski, & became a better shooter.
I Learned to hunt big game, to deep sea fish, & I got better at downhill skiing.
I learned to use a snowmobile ("snow machine" to Alaskans)
I loved riding it!
I Learned to fly a plane, and I got a pilot's license.
I Went skydiving!! OMG I Loved it so much I did it again. I plan on doing it again, soon!
I edited a book. (The book ended up on the Best Seller's List. Who knew?)
I Worked out 3-4 times a week, and really did get in excellent shape.
Looking good made a world of difference to me. I Found a work out partner and began socializing after the work outs.
Remember I'd just had our last child and needed to lose the baby weight. It was not easy to do, let alone in the dark, deathly cold of their LONG winters).
I Saw a therapist and for some months, went on ADs.
Took a pottery class (very odd for me to do, but I liked it a lot).
Joined the Officer's Wives club, finally, after 15 years of active duty.
(Wish I had joined sooner! Met two women who are now life long friends.)
ALSO I -
Joined a writer's group
Took a class in Conversational French
Took a class in Italian cooking
There is more, but I just wanted to suggest to you a few things you can do that do not cost a lot.
Other than pilot training, most of these ^^ activities were free, or quite cheap.
Ghost, find something you'd LOVE to do or are are least interested in exploring .
OVERCOME THE INERTIA....and you'll be a new man.
thank you
And 25years you did all that and still managed to get your M back on track
How did you find the time
How the heck do I become the best ghost possible
Try to be
Casper the Friendly Ghost??
You left yourself WIDE open with that question, buddy.
25years btw thank you very much for taking the time to post I really appreciate it
25years I guess the obstacles are 4 children of different ages
One with a horse
And one that plays tennis a lot
A house,with a big mortgage that needs to be paid
No job security I am self employed all be it I am extremely busy and the last few years I have thrown myself into work ...I have recently reduced my hrs to be arround in the mornings for breakfast with the children.......
I have renewed curly joined a gym and a couple of meet up groups
A couple of nights ago I ended up playing beach volleyball in a park with the meet up group ....ok it was fun but was not really my thing
I have a quick question
So many of you know my situation living with my W since B now in separate rooms she gives no intamacy what so ever she has told me several times that she just does not feel that way about me any longer
I know there is resentment from her for the way I treated her by not being there for her me putting my needs first not doing enough with the kids upsetting the kids and not doing enough arround the house
Once I got really upset and threw something across the room and it hit the staircase and chipped it this was about 3 years ago and she told me she has been looking at this chip as a reminder of the bad times we had
So
I know she has been unhappy for a number of years
I know the sex / making love did not stop until she dropped the B
We used to cuddle and kiss right up to the day of the B
But she is adement it is over
I have been trying to put distance between us but this is extremely difficult when we are n the house together
In the house we still do each other's washing and we cook for each other and the kids and we do still get along very well however I am missing the closeness we had and we did have closeness and I am missing the lack intamacy and closeness and affection
I have taken on a lot more of the house chores this is something that she complained about a lot of the time so I do the ironing unload the dishwasher and vacuum downstairs clean bathroom she,also does much of the same in the way of the chores
It feels like she now has everything she wanted of our R without the commitment of M or a R less the intamacy that she never really felt was that important anyway.
She said 6 weeks ago that it would be nice to do some days out as a family over the summer holidays with the children so today we went to the zoo 6 hrs in each other's company getting along just fine talking laughing together
So it almost does not feel like a separation .....it feels like everything is as it was just without the intamacy and she gets to go out with her friends more I get to do more housework and more with the kids which is what she asked for throughout the M and she does not have to answer to me or my needs.
I don't just want for us to be just friends for ever
So please can someone help me to understand where I am right now on this journey the dynamics of my relationship with W seems different to many of the situations I read on here
Do things have to get worse before they get better....worse being split up completely separate houses will things ever get better.......and what actually is better ?
For as far as I know she may be prepared to have this kind of relationship for the next 15 years
What are your thoughts
I sometimes feel like asking my W ....how would you feel if you never saw me ever again would you be upset ? Is this a strange things to want to ask ??
thanks in advance
Feeling very low last night had to get out the house go for a drive clear my mind
I need to book another coaching session will do this today
Hang in there ghost. Listen to the advice and to the vets, but esp your coach.
Best of luck
Ghost,
My relationship with my WW was similar to your prior to her moving out. She was having an EA so that is different. While we were in the same house we would still take care of the children. I would do laundry, she would cook, etc... She told me she wanted a divorce and was going to stay in the house until her apartment became available. She promised me that she had not been in contact with the OM and would not do that until she moved out.
Once I discovered the EA for the second time, after she told me she had stopped, she immediately moved out. Things have been downhill since. She have been very vindictive. She has tried everything in her power to hurt me. She has tried to take my children and is now trying to stick me will all the debt. She has not contributed one dime to our debt since leaving. So to answer your question, moving out did make things worse in a sense. However, it feels like it just moved things to where they were going anyway. It was just a matter of time.
It is strange, a week prior to moving out she suggested we get divorced and buy houses right next to each other and be best friends. Now we have a mutual restraining order where we can not even talk to each other. This was her request.
Your situation is different. I am sure it feels like if one of you moves out it will make things worse. I have read other material saying that the last thing you want to do is separate from the home. I am not sure what the DB approach would be here.
It does seem like you are to available to her needs right now. She needs to feel what it is like to be without you. You need to be the confident man she married, someone she will fall back in love with. Maybe someone else can shed some light on this.
Thank you whyus. I am 100 percent sure she is not having an afair I am just not sure where I am at
Coaching call later today
Can anyone else give any help on my last post
Thank you so much
Gary
How does someone know where they are on this journey
Detaching and getting a life and starting to feel a lot better about myself happier arround the kids
Still up and down with emotions and think I will be for the foreseeable
Is it just a waiting game to see if W will start making conversation or get close
How does one know what to be looking for to know things are moving in the right direction
I don't think anyone knows where they are on this journey Ghost, that's the hard part of it. You've just got to do the work no matter where you are though, that's the beauty of it.
Keep focusing on YOU and what you can control. That doesn't change for a long long time from all the reading I've done here in the last 4 months. Just keep focusing on you. Sounds trite, but it's the truth.
How did it go with your coach?
"How does someone know where they are on this journey"
As PP says - none of us really do. But, I can tell you that you are at a very early stage and you shouldn't look for any change in the near future. That happens in very few sitches until a good number of months - 6/9+ and often much longer - have passed.
I'm not saying that to depress you. But it may help to free you of 'looking for changes' and help you focus on yourself. I'm more than a year in, and I think if H turned around tomorrow wanting to reconcile, I would feel I haven't had enough time to work on me!!
How does someone know where they are on this journey
I have seen similar questions from LBS. I am genuinely curious as to the reason behind it. Is it to have a mileage scale, or what?
Glad to hear you are doing better.
How does someone know where they are on this journey
Have you read all the homework?
Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1
I have seen similar questions from LBS. I am genuinely curious as to the reason behind it. Is it to have a mileage scale, or what?I was always curious because I thought it it was a way to help with the uncertainty of the future. Truly where am I, where is she, where are we...these gauges tells us how long we have left...well except it don't work like that
How does someone know where they are on this journey
I have seen similar questions from LBS. I am genuinely curious as to the reason behind it. Is it to have a mileage scale, or what?
I think it's because after BD, even long after BD, we're desperate for anything concrete to hang our hat on.
I'm hearing the things that people here when they have six months left? Ok, I can do six months.
We all know it's a fallacy and that our own stitches are unique, but I think we'd start believing in Santa Claus if it would help get us through the day.
A fat man comes down the chimney and is going to give me presents? You serious? Excellent, I'll take anything I can get right now.
Not to make light of the question or the asker, I've begged for any kind of answer for this myself.
Thanks, I appreciate the answer. I figured it had to do with "hope". I wondered if it had to do with men wanting to know the answer before asking the question (you know, like things he connects with possible rejection). I don't mean to sound as if I'm trying to make it a gender thing, b/c it's probably true for all LBS looking for hope. I've just noticed that men often say that if they knew for sure the W would give the M another chance, then they would hang on as long as it took. In other words, wanted the answer before doing the work? Or, is that just another way men are saying they are seeking a little bit of hope? I'm still learning, too.
In other words, wanted the answer before doing the work?
I could probably say honestly that statement was probably true in the beginning for me. There was some hope there also. But my biggest problem at first was not knowing what work I needed to do.
Ghost,
Sorry this has somewhat hijacked your thread, but I wanted to weigh in on this discussion as well.
In one of the many books I've read since BD, I came to realize that it's my fear of the unknown and a (weak) attempt at thinking I can control the future that made me want a timeline. Not just with my sitch, but in most of my life.
So, if I know I can get to "A" by doing "B" for 8 months, great, I'm all in. But if I dont know how long I need to do "B" to get to "A", well then I'm scared. Afraid to waste my time, afraid to try something and perhaps fail. I wanted that guarantee of success in my head before taking any risks or making any changes that would result in lots of work for me.
I'm not saying all LBS are like this, but I was. I still am, but I'm working on it and it's getting better. In fact, it was a post Zeus left me asking how I would feel or work on myself differently if he told me right then my W was never coming back that helped me start to look at things in a different light. Us LSB really cannot keep looking over our shoulders wondering when WAS is coming back and half-assing the changes we need to be focused on.
I firmly believe that the number one emotion all LBS feel at BD is fear. And for me, until I learned to let that fear go (still working on it, but getting closer!) I was never going to start moving forward, making changes for me and only me.
So Ghost, as an answer to your question I'll say this: when you figure out how to let go of your fear, then your journey really begins.
I will also apologize to add to the hijack....but here goes.
For me, I feel like the journey we are all on is like we're swimming down a river. If we get to the end of the river, then great, we made it! But it FEELS like we are stuck in some whirlpool of our own situations. I believe we feel too connected to our own issues to really see the zoomed out view. So we ask the people that came before: how far down the river AM I now? All we feel is the spinning around, so it's hard to tell if there has been any forward motion or anything.
Now that's kind of my take on the personal journey we're on. As for how it goes with the spouse...? Who the hell knows. I've stopped paying attention to the mile markers on that road.
In order to give the post from Zues I referenced above its fair justice, I'll re-post it here. Ghost, perhaps this can help you like it did me....
Look- if I told you nothing you did or said would ever change your W, your M was DOOMED, and you would never get her back...would 'how dark to be' still be your biggest thing? Or would you be like 'that [censored], looks like my biggest thing is making myself the best person I can be to have the brightest future on my own I can'?
See the difference? Focus on you. For real.
Jedi,
Thank you for that post. I needed to hear that.
Ghost
I do believe the answer lies in Detachment. Once you detach from the outcome, then the fear of failure goes.
The sense I am not going to work the process because My M isn't going to repair, there is little reason to do it.
Once you detach, go with the program, the real journey begins. This is a journey not a destination. The journey is discovering who you are, what you want to be. It is beyond your M, it is rounder, wilder and more involved. It is attaching to yourself, observing calmly, reacting peaceable, enforcing boundaries, constructing necessary repairs, healing old wounds, laying down baggage, old childhood scars and much much more. And it is enlightening empowering and life affirming for your whole lifetime. Where are you now? You will know when you look back and you will know if you take this journey, at the first step.
There are two posters here who have blessed you with their posts PigPen and Joe who have been remarkable in their sitch, you would be wise to heed their words and read their threads.
It is about being a worthwhile human being (not doing), preparing your children for life and it is about your higher power. Truly about you.
V
And Ghost, don't be so sure there is not another man somewhere in the works. 99% of the time there is another man/woman in the works and it can surprise the heck out of you how devious our spouses can be. Mine setup numerous hidden email accounts and hid things in incredible ways. It can very well be the case that she's found someone else (If we were in Vegas, I'd put money on it) that stroked her ego and made her feel butterflies in her guts (she will call him her soul mate).
As you have experienced, she said she's been unhappy for a long time and that is called a script, we've all had that said to us. They tend to rewrite history to justify what they have done. IF you think about it surely you will find examples of things that she say happened one way but you have a different recollection of it.
Ad it really noes not matter where we are on our journey, because only hindsight is 20/20. You are getting great advice here, I sure do wish you'll take it and not try to be a smart ass. We all think/thought that our situation is different and that we can nice our spouse back to the marriage. We can not. And no, our situation is not all that different from all the other guys on these boards. And the sooner you stop driving your head trough the wall the better for you. Do not expect immediate results, you are months away from the results phase (likely more than a year) and the situation is bound to get worse before it gets better.
DO NOT MOVE OUT. If she wants out of the marriage, that is her choice, but for heaven's sake, grow a pair and stand up to her. Again, you cannot nice her back, you cannot start all the things you should have been doing in the marriage now and expect it to matter to her. It will not. If anything, it will just piss her off.
Expect spewing from her, expect her to try to manipulate you, expect her to lay all the blame for the breakup on you. Do not let her. Own you $hit, but own your part of it only. Read and reread Sandi's rules and do it daily. Do not beg, plead, convince her, it will not work, it will only make you look weak, and women HATE weak, absolutely HATE it. Sure they say they want a compassionate man, yada yada yada, but at the end of the day, they want a man, a strong and confident man, and confident is sexy, confidence is a turn on.
So let go of your fears, as others have pointed out, your marriage is dead, gone and you truly have nothing to lose. NOT A DAMN THING...
Be the best dad you can be and do not look over your shoulder for your W, she will notice changes, she may not say anything, but she will notice. You have to make her miss you, but not by word, by actions!
As I said, be the best dad in the world, play with your little ones, to special thing for your older ones.
Go Ghost!!! We are all rooting for you...
"And Ghost, don't be so sure there is not another man somewhere in the works. 99% of the time there is another man/woman in the works and it can surprise the heck out of you how devious our spouses can be"
"grow a pair and stand up to her. Again, you cannot nice her back, you cannot start all the things you should have been doing in the marriage now and expect it to matter to her. It will not. If anything, it will just piss her off.
Expect spewing from her, expect her to try to manipulate you, expect her to lay all the blame for the breakup on you. Do not let her. Own you $hit, but own your part of it only."
"So let go of your fears, as others have pointed out, your marriage is dead, gone and you truly have nothing to lose. NOT A DAMN THING..."
ABSOLUTE DITTO to this...........
[quote=Ontheup]"And Ghost, don't be so sure there is not another man somewhere in the works. 99% of the time
I apologize if this offends, but in my opinion these fake statistics are Not helpful. In fact, they can be distracting, since Ghost has already done what he believes is thorough research into the matter -
AND b/c he's trying to own his own role in the marital woes, and to identify when he reverts. When someone keeps searching for OM/OWs it is
sometimes to avoid looking at the one person in this ordeal whom they can actually control, themselves....or to avoid owning their role.
So for me, it's almost wasteful & destructive to keep sewing doubt in someone who is trying so hard to work on themselves. I mean, if an OP is not an absolute deal breaker for him,
then what purpose is there in continually harping on the possibility? (To wake him up? To what? Where the money is going? Ghost, do you know your finances? Are you at risk if she's hiding money?
I see Ghost as a man on a path of self improvement so that he becomes the better choice,
thus, regardless of whether there is an OM, he's fighting the same fight.
there is another man/woman in the works and it can surprise the heck out of you how devious our spouses can be"
"grow a pair and stand up to her. Again, you cannot nice her back, you cannot start all the things you should have been doing in the marriage now and expect it to matter to her. It will not. If anything, it will just piss her off.
The other comment I'd make is, to, please avoid projecting our own fears or particulars from our marriage, onto someone else's. There's so much negative mind reading going on there, I am smh.
YES there are common themes in our situations - but at the same time they are NOT all alike. So, Let's tread lightly here.
Expect spewing from her, expect her to try to manipulate you, expect her to lay all the blame for the breakup on you.
There's value in this^^ but Ghost, don't lose sight of what my DB coach said, which is to "Get better, Not bItter"
and to give your spouse something to live UP to, not with expectations that set you up for disappointment, but with as much authentic appreciation of the value they bring, as you can.
That's^^^ NOT being a doormat, rather, its being detached enough to do the work this DB process takes,
while also not becoming a bItter spouse.
This is Not an easy ordeal, (which is why I use the term "ordeal.")
And it is truly a marathon, not a sprint.
I'm very very glad you have a DB coach! I still say the single most important and most specifically helpful thing I did to save my m, was getting a DB coach.
She was truly a Godsend for me. Good luck!
I agree with 25, and I think we all need to remain aware that we may project things that are 'ours' onto others. We may also encourage them to follow our 'path' as reinforcement to ourselves that it is the right one. Ultimately, our posts should aim to help others ahead of ourselves.
The views OTU expresses remind me of the 'Chump lady' website. I googled it a while ago and it is good fun - in a caustic kind of way. But DBing it isn't, and I don't think this website and that one are compatible. Chump is more a 'dump their cheating @ss and get your self-respect back.' (Another poster commented a while back that she appears to have significant unresolved anger issues.) Okay, the 'Chump route' is an option - and I have no problem with the choices others make - but DBing is another option with more emphasis on self-awareness and growth.
I've chosen the DB option and I feel at peace with what I have done so far. This journey 'ain't for pussies' and the whole thing 'ain't pretty' either. But if we can improve our lives and ourselves from going through this painful journey - whether or not our spouse is in the picture - that's a good outcome to me.
Take care Ghost xx
My views are not just from the chump site but also expressed by my councillor who had never heard of this site nor chump.
What I'm advocating is Gain your self respect back. Don't be afraid to stand up for yourself.
I've said numerous times on my threads and others that the best price of advice I ever received was to just let them go. Stop dancing stop with all the drama if they want out then let them.
I and others are questioning about an affair because as we all know it is a very common theme on here.
I apologise if I've caused offence, I'm giving my thoughts to try and help which is what we're all here to do right?
Toots chump is not "good fun" it's full of broken marriages, dam right she's angry, so am I, tends to happen when someone you thought was your best friend has been sh1tting all over you for years.
Thank you everyone for posting on my stitch
25yearsmlc thank you for your comments
I know some people will say there is another man but there isn't i do know my wife and she is not one to cheet never has been and she would not do this for the kids and I know she tells me she just does not want to have to put another adult in front of her needs
She tells me that she has just had enough of how I was not there for her her over the years and I put myself above her I am making improvements to myself but she has been very adement that there is no chance of us getting back together.
We are still living in the same house and we do get along but she is defiantly detaching from me and doing less and less with me
I am struggling to think about the future and if we go to separate houses with me having the kids for 3,5 days and her doing the same.
She has been well used to this as she has bought up our other 3 kids she was a stay at home mum who worked part time I have always been a full time worker
The concept of me having the baby for 3.5 days and not being able to work or the concept of not having the baby the other days and not seeing her hurts.
I am 46 and I do not want to be alone but then I do not see me wanting to get involved with someone else .they are probably going to come with history and or children just as I do
I trust my wife with my life and the life of my baby how can I know I can trust a stranger
I know I am thing ahead
Ghost
Don't try and predict what you're future is going to be. Just deal with the here and now.
So your wife has said that's it basically she's done....has she said anything regarding what she believes is going to happen? E.g does she want you to move out? Does she want to move out? Does she want to live as bff?
I go back to my earlier post regards what do you want to do?
Well for now she is ok living in the same house for the good of the children they are coping well with our separation as they have not really seen much of a change other than their daddy breaking down...I try to do this in private but once or twice they have seen how upset I am.
I hope that whilst she is living with me I,stand more chance of trying to prove to her my changes
I am not strong I would describe by self as weak....ok I was going to describe my self as a pussy but then thought better of it....
I am hoping and I guess praying that over time she sees my changes and decides that it might just be worth giving me a second chance to show her and our children that being with me is the best choice.
BUT and this is a big BUT right now I really do not hold much hope but however slim this might be and it is pretty slim I have to hang on to this and keep trying to better myself
I will keep trying to detach
On a side note this evening she had made plans to go out with a girl friend of hers to a night club now,the is a long term friend but she has recently split with her partner so my W and her are best friends and I am not sure if she is not getting some lets just say biast conversation from her
So I took her to her friends house .and dropped her off ...l am guessing By now she would be hitting the club do I wait up for her to make sure she gets home safely arround 2 :30 am ish
ghost
Neither of us would be able to afford our current house
She is not money oriented she never has been
She says that so long as we are getting along then we can all keep living together but if it not working for anyone then we will sell and move to separate houses
Our finances are tight they always have been
But my father passed away last year and left me some money aprox £30k .....still has not finished going through probate but I was going to pay a chunk off our mortgage however now not sure this would be a smart plan now
All my wife says she would want is half the value of our house after mtg paid back arround £300k each
Life is so crap my mother has also just changed her will to include my wife and our kids each getting shares of her estate so I believe she is in the process of having it changed again to exclude W and to make sure that my kids share is not placed into trust with both me and my W as trustees as I feel that W could potentially block things if I want to give our children some of their share and she objects
I hope that whilst she is living with me I,stand more chance of trying to prove to her my changes
The bigger challenge is to prove the changes to yourself. Even if they are real, she may or may not want them anymore. Something you have to accept while continuing to live your own life.
I hear what you say fogg and you are not wrong I do have to prove the changes to myself and right now she is done and she tells me that there is no coming back
So some would say move on and I am detaching not as quickly as I would like but I am meeting with new people and starting to GAL
I guess when she decides on separate houses this will be the time that I give up any further hope I don't know I guess I will cross this bridge when I get there.
Until I get there all I can do is better myself start to detach ...try to detach some more and GAL
Ghost -
NOBODY is saying to "move on". I believe you've used that phrase several times. Not a single other person is giving you that advice. If you want to stay married to your W, how does "moving on" help you?
What we ARE saying is to detach. This is NOT THE SAME as moving on. This doesn't mean to ignore her and start something new (as I can imagine "moving on" would entail). This means to unravel your emotional well being, your method of finding happiness, your reason for doing things from your relationship with HER and HER feelings and HER reactions. That is HEALTHY.
Yep, moving on and moving forward are two completely different things. You want to move forward with your life, improve what YOU can control.
Even the term moving on isn't a good example. Starting a new relationship wouldn't be moving anywhere, it would be putting a huge temporary band-aid over your wounds and ignoring them and the growth as a person you could have.
GAL is key for that. I have my own opinions on in house separation that I'm facing right now. All Ill say right now is that its [censored] hard and will test you, but you grow very quickly also as a result(if you let yourself).
Azzork Moving on does not help whatsoever
Can you explain your last post a little more unravel your emotional well being so stop feeling love towards her ?
Fogg....when you say you grow really quickly ....what do you mean sorry nearly 2 am and still awake
I will use the analogy of moving forward rather than moving on
Quick thoughts please and I am not trying to peruse the W
She went out clubbing tonight I want to make sure she gets in safely so I am waiting up and watching TV .....
I guess,when we were M I would have done the same thing had she gone out ....am I crazy ....stupid .....or just wrong to want to wait up ?
Can you explain your last post a little more unravel your emotional well being so stop feeling love towards her ?
There is tons of great info on the Detachment thread in the homework. I'd read all that again.
But I do NOT mean to stop feeling love toward her.
What I mean is you have to not let your sense of worth, your level of happiness, your wellbeing rely on HER. For example: if you make her dinner and she stops at the pub on the way home from somewhere, you need to learn to shrug it off. You can't expect reactions and feelings from her anymore to make you feel good. Likewise, you can't let her actions and reactions and emotions make you feel badly. Your goal is to stay as even keeled as possible.
That does NOT mean to give up on your M or to stop loving your W.
Make sense?
Yes thank you will read the detachment thread again
I will use the analogy of moving forward rather than moving on
Quick thoughts please and I am not trying to peruse the W
She went out clubbing tonight I want to make sure she gets in safely so I am waiting up and watching TV .....
I guess,when we were M I would have done the same thing had she gone out ....am I crazy ....stupid .....or just wrong to want to wait up ?
Go to bed. It will come across as you wanting to see her. If you're worried about her safety, go read a book in bed.
But IMO, she's s big girl. It's 2 AM. Go to bed.
I was just going to wait till she walked in through the door and say good night and take my self up stairs not engage in any further conversation ...... But bed sounds like a better choice at this time,
You need to start a new thread.
If you would normally go to sleep at this time, go to sleep, don't base your actions on her.
What I mean about growth is that living with the WAS/WS is very difficult and you see things much more often than if you were physically separated. You will have expectations crushing you more often than someone with limited contact and will force you to change or you will suffer and go crazy. You watching her being nice and friendly and deep down think its because things are getting better. Well, when things get worse it knocks you on your ass.
There are a lot of negatives to being separated in house and it will be very very difficult to detach and let go as a result of living with a friendly spouse. I have thoughts on what it takes to let go and detach, something I'm working on and I now think it's just much harder with a friendly spouse than one is spewing at you and throwing pain in your face.