1st: New England Newcomer 2nd: So I am divorced. 3rd: I hucked a waterfall. 4th: Just Fishin'It's been over a week since my last post. I believe on some level I just don't feel like posting. The idea of jotting down meaningful thoughts to decipher how I feel and where I should be going has felt exhausting. But I did have my kids for 11 days as a solo parent so maybe that had something to do with it. We went camping and rafting for the first time, did a lot of puzzles, playing and had fun. I think a lot about what GB said about the 6-9 month PTSD-like window (6-9 months after D), and I definitely feel that. Time to step up and move on.
Towards the end, I felt bad for the kids as she did not reach out to call them Fri, Sat or Sun. I realize I shouldn't be mind reading or guessing, and I try not to, but I find it very disheartening for them. She did send me a text last night in regards to D4's health. I responded and kept it short. She did not respond.
I'm doing well on most levels. I met a congresswoman the other day in regards to a startup. I also met a very pretty lawyer intern, we had good conversation spread over about 3 hours. It is fun to meet new people. On the other side, I have to pick it up in regards to keeping up with the house, more importantly working out, and getting into a better routine when working from home without the kids. Also, money is tight and I've been feeling that crunch lately. To compound the money issue, vacation with the kids and family start Saturday.
It was disheartening to read about Matt tonight and how his STBX felt manipulated. I think if I didn't read that I wouldn't be writing now. I can see how the X/STBX would feel manipulated, b/c we (the hopeful) are devoting so much thought and effort to something that hinges around their life. HOWEVER, the end goal we are pursuing is mending a family, which I believe is a noble cause.
People who have followed me, know that I struggle with STFU. And often feel the urge to be heard via writing letters to X. I have written many. Most of which are burned now or logged in these threads. I've been really contemplating writing one, but honestly see no benefit. Approaching her on any level just seems futile (whether to discuss coparenting or give her a letter).
Camping and rafting sounds like so much fun, I bet your kids had a blast with you!
It is hard reading about Matt. I was shocked, but you are right...fighting for your family is a noble cause. The most noble I think.
I am always touched when I read posts by the men on this board who are trying their best to save their families.You are one of those men.
Mahhty, you have worked hard and it's evident how important your family is to you. Your a better person for all you have done.
Thanks teach. That is sweet of you to say. I'm sure I haven't said or done all the right things at all the right times but I have tried the best I can.
Hey mahhhty, just wanted to drop in real quick and say Hi. I read your entire thread over last couple of days, and find your personal progress inspiring. I'm working on GAL myself but afraid I haven't been quite as successful as I would like. I'm sorry to hear that things between you and XW haven't improved at all over past few months, but you seem to be doing so well for yourself and your kids. Keep at it brother - you are an inspiration to those of us earlier in the journey.
dwh... thank you. I am flattered that anyone would like to read my ramblings. It is a roller coaster, and one thing I have learned is that no matter how much I do or don't do I always expect myself to do more... perhaps slightly type A personality there. I don't beat myself up as much anymore. I'm trying to learn to go with the flow.
Thanks again.
Vacation starts today. 1 week in a mountain retreat with the entire family... Well my parents, my sister and her family, and the munchkins and I. I'm picking the kids up from her place this am. It'll be the first time I see her this month. I'll do my best. I'm excited to see the kids.
Have a great vacation! The mountains sound wonderful. It was 101 here yesterday!
Thanks teach. It's humid but we had a pretty awesome first day.
The mountains are calling and I must go. J. Muir
Vacation has been a blast as vacations normally are (except for a bout with food poisoning). I'm lucky and grateful for having this opportunity to get away and to step out of the normal routine.
In stepping out, pushing yourself, or getting out of your comfort zone, I believe you have the opportunity to find yourself. I'm looking at things much clearer than the fog or funk that had been around me.
What I have learned is that my life is still fun, still has meaning, importance and vibrance. I am still a father, uncle, son, brother, friend. I am still one part the guy I was, 1 part the guy I am, and 1 part the guy I want to be. I have a long way to get what I want, to be the person I want to be. But I know I can be.
2 more days. Home Saturday night.
What I have learned is that my life is still fun, still has meaning, importance and vibrance. I am still a father, uncle, son, brother, friend. I am still one part the guy I was, 1 part the guy I am, and 1 part the guy I want to be. I have a long way to get what I want, to be the person I want to be. But I know I can be.
Love this Mahhhty, I think this is the place all of us get to at some point and it's a turning point in the whole process. You're getting back to whole, all the while knowing that this experience, and how you've used it, is making you into a far better man than you were before.
Keep putting one foot in front of the other and staying grateful. You're well on your way to being the man you want to be and know you will be.
Cheers,
PP
I agree with Pigpen. Awesome statement about your life Mahhhty. It's the mental place all of here should be striving to reach. Keep up the great work.
Pigpen & dwh,
Thank you both for the kind words.
Vacation was a blast. X came over to pick up the kids on Sunday. The exchange went fine. I get to see them again tomorrow. Which I am looking forward to. Going from being incredibly busy to quiet plays with my mind. But I know better, and ask myself what do I need to do right now to be happy? Then I go do it.
It's been over a week since my last post. I believe on some level I just don't feel like posting.
Yeah well I can relate, today is the first time I've posted since August of last year
I think I had to take a sabbatical from here to well and truly let go of my marriage. If you don't feel like posting then don't, it can be cathartic posting but it can also be cathartic taking a break
AS - You are definitely right. It felt good to not be concerned with thinking about the situation, but being involved with other GAL activities.
There was a mix up this AM with regards to no daycare this week. We worked through it via some texts.
I then had to go to her place to pick up the kids. My D opened the door, was excited to see me and X went around the corner.
This left me to ponder if I should even enter or not. What an interesting concept to think about. A person I was close with, I don't even know now, and there I was waiting by the door to try and understand what to do.
I don't think she expected me. She didn't have any makeup on (she has been wearing her hair down again).
I wasn't as comfortable as the last time (b/c of the text exchange most likely). I didn't make much eye contact but stayed happy and up beat. This was the first time I had been in her place in a long time (maybe winter). I noticed on her wall one of the main pictures was a photograph I took of the kids at the pool. How ironic, that she displays a photo of a memory she doesn't have.
The entire process is filled with double standards, catch-22's, and irony. At it's core (or my core) is an engineer's need to try and fix it. Despite my wishes I don't. I don't push the envelope. I don't give her the letter/s. I don't make any ripples (mostly b/c all the major issues are dealt with). I don't mostly b/c I know the best chance for a potential future, is her to approach me.
I guess the moral of the story is... control what you can control and take it one day at a time.
BTW... This spoke to me. If I had to make an assumption aka mind read aka judge aka pigeon hole her (all things I shouldn't be doing), this is what I would come up with.
Divorce Busting
6/17/15
People who are unhappy in their marriages often speak of feeling trapped.
They yearn to be free from the tension, loneliness, constant arguments,
or deafening silence but worry that divorce may not be the right decision.
After all, they took their marital vows seriously.
They're not trying to hurt their spouses.
They don't want to hurt their children.
They panic at the thought of being alone.
They worry about finances.
They fear the unknown.
Yet the idea of living in a loveless marriage starts to feel like a death sentence.
Over time, many of these people slowly convince themselves that
the benefits of leaving their marriages vastly outweigh the benefits of staying.
They tell themselves, "Kids are resilient, they'll bounce back,"
or "In the long run, this will be better fore everyone."
It's not until they embark on the path to divorce and begin to piece their lives back together
that they discover the real price they paid for their so-called "freedom."
Regretfully, this painful discovery comes too late.
They have fallen into the divorce trap.
- DIVORCE REMEDY
Michele Weiner-Davis
Hey Marty,
Thank you for stopping by my place. I replied to you there.
I can understand where you have grown weary of posting on your sitch. I think about you quite often and how much you have helped me. Darn, I wish we could meet for a drink or two or . . .
Your last post will help many people. MWD hit all the major points. I especially think this fits all WWS' or WAS':
"Over time, many of these people slowly convince themselves that the benefits of leaving their marriages vastly outweigh the benefits of staying."
Sadly, I believe that was the case with your W and mine as well.
God is in control and I know something great is going to come out of this for you. How do I know? Faith, and you are a terrific guy.
Chin up, my friend.
Bob
Thanks Bob. I needed it today!
Strength to you Mahhhty. We're all going to get through this in one piece. I have faith that you will thrive again. More so than you probably do.
Strength.
PP
Thanks Bob. I needed it today!
You're welcome, anything for you sir!
Bob
Saw an uplifting story on FB. Here is a great quote....
"Hope is the heaviest weight a man can carry. It is the bane of the Idealist."
- The Conditioned
Big meeting today for the startup, followed by three days of paddling and a bachelor party. Should be fun.
My kids have been great the last couple days. My D has multiple times come to me, hugged me and told me she loves me. So uplifting. Yesterday we started talking about them going to X's house, and they both got upset and asked to call X to tell her they wanted to stay with me longer. That shouldn't have hurt, but it did. I guess I hurt for X. I shouldn't, she wouldn't for me, but I guess that is part of what makes me me.
No doubt I have a better relationship with them than what I had. That is a wonderful thing.
Hey Mahhhty,
Just stopping in to let you know I'm here and you still have my support. Thanks for always checking on me and of course keeping things real!
Not much to add except stop mind-reading! That's my job!
If the best thing to come out of this horrible situation is a better relationship with your kids than that's pretty awesome!
My kids have been great the last couple days. My D has multiple times come to me, hugged me and told me she loves me. So uplifting. Yesterday we started talking about them going to X's house, and they both got upset and asked to call X to tell her they wanted to stay with me longer. That shouldn't have hurt, but it did. I guess I hurt for X. I shouldn't, she wouldn't for me, but I guess that is part of what makes me me.
No doubt I have a better relationship with them than what I had. That is a wonderful thing.
When children get older...and become teenagers...running back and forth between mom and dads house gets real old. They will demand to be MORE at one than the others. Keep prioritizing your kids over everything else and your wife is certainly going to keep prioritizing her "happiness" over everyone else and you are sure to be that go to parent.
Hopefully you reside in their school district and there "best friends" end up living more conveniently near you. As friends become their priority, being at the parent's home with better access to such friends also plays a part in the eventual demand they make to spend more time at one parent's home than the other. If you aren't in this position home wise now....look to rectify that in the coming years.
Your ex-wife is selfish. I still think she's wayward. Your kids need protecting from her selfishness particularly when they enter and endure the difficult teenage years. If you have to take it legal....go for primary custody in the courts once the kids are old enough but chances are the kids will request it and your wife won't care as long as the paperwork doesn't say it and she can save face with friends and family that you two are 50/50.
Take care you river rat.
Hi Marty,
Just swinging by to say I'm still here for you!
Gotta run now -- please keep your chin up.
Bob
Lost, GB, Bob,
Thank you for the support.
Lost - you know me. Engineers brain.. I think I can fix everything by mind reading. I know I need to do it less.
Gb - interesting thought process. You are right and I need to consider all situations to be prepared. And yeah... I am a river rat.
Bob - I'm sorry I haven't been around as much. My chin is up most in the time.
There is a lot I could explain on the past weeks, that I haven't. Mainly bc, I'm not sure if it all matters. I'm improving. Quality of life is improving. My kids, mys of, my startups are the priorities, I need to do more social GALs separate from kayaking. I'm still doing a ton of kayaking.
My life with the X is cordial. Sometimes I make her laugh. Sometimes I don't. What I've come to terms with, is that it may not matter and that I can't pursue her. So I don't.
I know I have to dance. But I'm not sure how to initiate or if I want to. Or if it is my time to dance. So I don't.
I can no longer find coach or geeks threads. Can someone tell me what I am doing wrong.
^ Bump.
What happened to Greek & Coach's threads?
I guess no one knows how to find Greek & Coach's threads after archiving. Perhaps it is somewhere else. I'll keep looking.
Tonight, both kids had an open house for school. My S is in a 2 day program and my D in a 3 day. X and I coordinated appropriately and fairly easily to plan to both be there.
This was the longest period of time we have spent with each other in a long time. S's was first. I arrived at 501. They were waiting for me. As I pulled in I could hear my S start saying my name (mind you I was 100+ yards away). He immediately came to me as I approached. That felt incredibly good. She went on to explain to me that he cried the whole way to school, however, once we were there I started playing with him and off we went. He definitely showed no signs of unhappiness, and was very eager to play. It was wonderful to see him in the environment.
My D was with X's Mom at the local ice cream stand. So we left the open house and both drove there (she did not offer for me to ride with her) and saw D, then went back for D's open house. D will be going there with X's Sister's D. So X's Sister & Husband where there. Upon seeing me their D came right over (I was always the fun uncle). Inside it was much of the same, I played almost exclusively with the kids.
My kids love me very much they were sweet and look for affection which I give them every chance I can. I love them and love the relationship we now have. It is a shame it took such loss to provide it. But I am grateful for it now.
As for X, we talk and she asks me pertinent questions about the kids. We never ever ask each other any questions about our current lives, and we rarely say goodbye to each other. It is so very odd to me.
I'm so happy you have such a great relationship with your kids. That really is awesome!
I have noticed a trend that you may want to take a look at. You have very little face to face contact with your XW. I feel like when you do you are avoiding having conversation/interactions with her, you are focusing solely on your kids. If your goal is still to reconcile you may need to step out of your comfort zone here and interact with her on some level. Make eye contact, ask how she's doing (if she has interests/hobby, her job, anything other than the kids). If I were in her shoes I would not see that you are interested in R at all, I would probably think you have moved on. Experiment (baby steps), what's the worst that can happen? She'll reject you? She already has...(words of wisdom from my sister!)
Thanks Lost. I read this awhile ago and I think your advice is solid. Please read the latest and let me know what you think.
So the last two weeks....
I was scheduled to be in a wedding on 8/29 the day before my X-Anniversary. It was a mental challenge but I wanted to be there and planned to bring the kids. However, the wedding schedule came out the week leading into the festivities and I determined it wasn't feasible anymore to do my duties in the wedding and bring the kids solo. There were a ton of things planned and stuff to help with, it would have been very very challenging on top of an 8 hr drive with the munchkins. Long story short. I asked her for help and she said no. She said multiple times "I would if I could" but ultimately she had plans. She did guilt me at one point that I can't break promises to the kids. I choose not to be combative but did reiterate that she does not know or understand what is going on.
At the wedding, I had a hard time initially, but loosened up and was even courted by a lady I met (which felt nice, but I wiggled my way out of the situation). Over the days coming out of the wedding our interactions were better, she seemed a little more at ease and texting has picked up a bit.
During this time I re-read some of my old threads and found posts from G. Bulldog that I had never seen, about sending the letter I had drafted a long time ago. This got me thinking about the letter again and possibly sending it. At this point a revision would be required. The motivation would be that one of two things happen; more communication or honesty (aka closure).
Then today occurred. Honestly, having a shitty day already (need to work less on my startup and more at my current job). But anyway I get this text from her out of the blue....
X....
Hey...I wanted to make you aware of this so that it came from me and not anyone else. My kidneys have taken a turn for the worst, and I met with the doctor today to refer me to the transplant doctor at the hospital. I'm in the end stage of the disease, so I will be meeting with doctors in the next or so to start the overall process. As you know, it was never a question of if, but when...still shocking news and quite scary. BUT staying positive and I'm very fortunate that there is a solution to this disease, it could be much worse. As I said, I wanted to be the one to tell you...because I can picture my mom blurting it out when you pickup the kiddos today! Just have to take it one day at a time.
I drafted a response and sent it 15 min later...
I wasn’t expecting that, and am reading this in disbelief. I’m sorry that you are going through this. You know how strong of a woman you are, and with a definite solution, that is most certainly a positive outcome. I am sure it it still trying on some level. I’d like to learn more if you are willing to share. Perhaps coffee or a drink or a green smoothy?
She responded at 25 min later...
I was going to take the kids to Bookstore on Sunday. We could all meet there for a coffee? I think they open at 11?
Me...
Ok. I'll see you then.
I feel pretty bad for her going through this by herself, but I have to try and remember that she was the driving force. I need to have empathy for her situation, without the anger that she was the cause.
I know this will be confusing for the kids, all of us at the bookstore. But what do people think about this?
Just, it's something that's necessary for WW to go through. Consequences. Her choice.
Just offering a big hug.
V
As usual... true... Thanks ((V))!
Bringing the kids to meet here at 11 tomorrow. Casual, confident, and quiet. I need to do more listening than talking. Wish me luck.
Make sure you look your best, plus a great after shave.
Then go have great fun and hugs lots and lots of hugs with your kids.
V
I did V. Best foot forward right???
Saturday our plan was to meet the bookstore/coffee shop at 11. My D was excited, she kept calling it family day... That was gut wrenching! I arrived early with the kids and grabbed smoothies while walking main st. When we approached the bookstore she was already there.
The entire visit was cordial, some jokes and musings while we grabbed a coffee and the kids picked out books. It wasn't all that comfortable but it was familiar and easy.
After the kids picked out books, we sat outside and talked about her disease. She got emotional a couple of times but never cried, I'm sure the kids helped her in that respect. I tried to speak less and ask more questions. I reinforced her stronger qualities through different validating sentences. Overall, I can tell she is hurting and is also more comfortable with me. At the end I put the car seats in her car, loaded in the munchkins and saw her pause by her door. I initiated a hug and said another validating sentences. Then left.
That was the first hug since Christmas.
I'm not sure exactly what to make out of all this. It's a lot to digest. I do know that she is fully living with her decision now and probably on some level feels alone and lonely.
I haven't been posting all that much lately. I've been really withdrawn from the DB community, offering very little advice or support to people in the forums. I'm sorry for that. I've been trying to do more of the things I enjoy.
It's been a year now since she told me she wanted a D, and 10 months since she left. Its been an eventful 10 months.
Days and/or Mornings without the kids are still the most difficult. The silence is deafening. My lack of structure on these days just promotes the struggle with motivation for working from home. I know I've made a lot of progress, but I have a ways to go. I realize it is about the journey. Perhaps this is just one of those days.
Good to hear from you mahhhty. You're doing it! Keep up the good work and the changes in yourself. It's a long journey and we're her with you for the ride.
Its been a thought provoking couple of months to say the least.
X's kidney disease has been on my mind. I always thought that I would donate my kidney to her. Now I am torn between going to get tested or waiting to see if the kids come down with the disease and donating to them (which is more appropriate).
She still mostly only communicates when something is required from her perspective. Lately I think her lack of communication, remorse and caring (or reaching out) on any level has bothered me more than usual. This is her busy time at work as well, and as such she has lost significant time with the kids. My relationship with them has never been stronger. Money has been tight. But I am figuring it out. Also, a week ago she started posting to Facebook again. I checked it out and saw that most if not all of our pictures from over the years are still there. I find it somewhat shocking. For the most part I do not reach out. I do not provide her any information. I look my best. I am happy, light and adapt to the situation. I am the rock for my kids and blow off anything and everything to spend more time with them. I will be finishing the letter in the next week and then I'll reach out to her about delivery.
I was pretty disinterested in posting tonight, but that does feel good to get it out.
Thursday I chaperoned my sons pre preschool field trip. Friday I chaperoned my daughters preschool field trip. Then took the kids to the circus with my folks. Laid low Saturday and spent 6 hrs at the country fair today.
I love those kids.
I'm wiped.
Thursday I chaperoned my sons pre preschool field trip. Friday I chaperoned my daughters preschool field trip. Then took the kids to the circus with my folks. Laid low Saturday and spent 6 hrs at the country fair today.
I love those kids.
I'm wiped.
Mahhhty,
I love this ^^^
I, like you, have been scarce around her as of late. I felt that the constant posting was holding me back from moving forward...feels kind of selfish, I know, but whatever.
I'm just rambling and just wanted to say hey. You've always supported me and I've always appreciated your perspective.
Defacto - I couldn't agree more! The constant discussion prevented me from disconnecting. And sometimes the thought of posting felt daunting, perhaps in a way I didn't want to discuss it. I'm in a much better place with myself, understanding my needs and wants, then I was. I think taking a break helped me achieve that. I'll probably remain pretty erratic on here during the upcoming months.
That [censored] about Mediation starting last month. Been there. Very painful. This is how stupid I was. When she told me we were going to mediation I was relevied. "Finally we are going to work through our problems.," I said. Nope. Not that kind of mediation. Good luck!
That [censored] about Mediation starting last month. Been there. Very painful. This is how stupid I was. When she told me we were going to mediation I was relevied. "Finally we are going to work through our problems.," I said. Nope. Not that kind of mediation. Good luck!
Actually, mediation was a breeze. We had a signed agreement in four hours.
Good luck to you as well! Keep up the paddling. I always enjoy catching up on your adventures.
Hey Mahhhty, I haven't been around here much either, read some posts a few times a week but haven't been posting.
I feel like you are still holding on to that last thread (this is totally a do as I say, not as I do btw :)). I think where you are right now in your R it is time for you to "drop the rope" completely. Maybe the letter you are composing will help you do that. I know my coach did give me some advice (prior to where we are now) on writing a letter and actually sending it. I think her disease has pulled you back in a little, which is understandable, but remember it is not your place to fix/help her. Try not to read too much in to her contact or lack there of, or anything else she does. You have no idea what is going on in her head.
I've said this before but you are a great dad & a great person. Your kids a lucky to have you in your life (and vice versa) and any woman you choose to have a R with in the future will be very lucky as well, including your X.
Are you planning on posting a draft of your letter before you send it?
I haven't been posting all that much lately. I've been really withdrawn from the DB community, offering very little advice or support to people in the forums. I'm sorry for that. I've been trying to do more of the things I enjoy.
I understand the feeling. I went from posting 10 times a day to posting every 10 days... I just feel in a different place emotionally. Before, my sitch was burning me inside and it was all I could think and talk about (poor friends!). Now, I think about it a little every day, but I sense that I've gained back a lot of my life. and think about other stuff. It's normal, it's even a good sign of mental health. I keep coming though because I'm interested in the lives of brothers in arms like you and I hope you'll keep coming every now and then, as I will.
I thought about you a few times in the last few months, especially that you were working on a startup at the same time that you were going through D. I just don't know how you did it, especially knowing how much you hurt. I was just not able to work and only recently have I gotten back to speed, close to pre-D levels. I just want to say that I'm impressed by your will and energy.
Hey Mahhhty, I haven't been around here much either, read some posts a few times a week but haven't been posting.
I feel like you are still holding on to that last thread (this is totally a do as I say, not as I do btw :)). I think where you are right now in your R it is time for you to "drop the rope" completely. Maybe the letter you are composing will help you do that. I know my coach did give me some advice (prior to where we are now) on writing a letter and actually sending it. I think her disease has pulled you back in a little, which is understandable, but remember it is not your place to fix/help her. Try not to read too much in to her contact or lack there of, or anything else she does. You have no idea what is going on in her head.
I've said this before but you are a great dad & a great person. Your kids a lucky to have you in your life (and vice versa) and any woman you choose to have a R with in the future will be very lucky as well, including your X.
Are you planning on posting a draft of your letter before you send it?
Honestly, I have no idea if I am still holding onto a thread or not. I don't start conversations. I don't contact or confront her. I am not involved with her unless it is about the kids. I am a nice guy. Unfortunately.
I am fully aware that she needs to live her life, and live with the decisions she has made. I'm trying not to interfere with that.
My kids..... I am the lucky one. If not for them. I would be in a different place. They are the best of me, and I am truly grateful for them.
Thanks Lost!!! I've missed our back and forth's the last couple months.
I'm going to post the letter soon-ish.
I understand the feeling. I went from posting 10 times a day to posting every 10 days... I just feel in a different place emotionally. Before, my sitch was burning me inside and it was all I could think and talk about (poor friends!). Now, I think about it a little every day, but I sense that I've gained back a lot of my life. and think about other stuff. It's normal, it's even a good sign of mental health. I keep coming though because I'm interested in the lives of brothers in arms like you and I hope you'll keep coming every now and then, as I will.
I thought about you a few times in the last few months, especially that you were working on a startup at the same time that you were going through D. I just don't know how you did it, especially knowing how much you hurt. I was just not able to work and only recently have I gotten back to speed, close to pre-D levels. I just want to say that I'm impressed by your will and energy.
It is weird... right? We go from being consumed with the situation to not wanting to be consumed. I think it is unique change within ourselves, probably associated with growth.
As for the startups.... How about a day job and two startups and part part time business.
A dream with no action will always remain a dream.
Alright Lost.. Here is the letter. In reading it, perhaps I haven't dropped the rope completely. I honestly don't know.
I had many other paragraphs in there about her piece of our demise, lack of communication, waywardness, etc. I removed all of this and kept it about me. I wonder if in doing so, am I giving her the ammunition to say "It was all your fault, I truly am a victim." And does that even matter?
Anyone, everyone, please feel free to comment. I am a big boy and can take any type of criticism.
XW,
A person who loves their spouse does not do anything unloving or unkind in manner, word or action. Love is what love does. I was oblivious to your pain and its depth, trivialized your perspective, and was consumed with distractions, hence withdrawn, amped up and overly critical.
As I am sure you felt, lying next to each other became the loneliest place in the world. I am sorry for those things and more.
Divorce is an individual problem. It cannot be generalized. Of course, for some there should never be a marriage. For others, divorce is no more a solution than marriage for a lonely person. For me, it is unfortunate that your actions, not your words, were the catalyst I needed for personal growth. I lost my way and myself. I focused on being a victim of circumstance in a situation I couldn’t change or control, rather than being in control of my happiness and my life. I felt entitled to happiness, and expected it to happen to me without work or effort. Obviously, that is a ridiculous notion. Animosity and fear were in my closet, both on an individual level and as a partner, preventing me from confronting our issues with empathy and compassion. I was constantly felt my solutions were the only way and the right way, I kept score, felt unappreciated, unloved and unwanted. My lack of compassion, empathy, and forgiveness imprisoned me in a physical and emotional rut, which was like a cloud of grey over me.
I fully acknowledge and understand that you were deeply hurt. After all a woman, who historically disliked changed, sought for the largest changes possible for a family. On some level I’m sure there are actions, stories, conversations, people and/or events that supported the belief that divorce was your key to happiness. I don’t know if I will ever fully understand your perspective or timeline. Your reasons are yours, it no longer matters what my opinion of these things may or may not be. You do not make me happy, sad or angry, those are my feelings to deal with. I’ve worked through that hurt at my own speed and in my own way.
Why this letter? Why now? I started this letter the night you moved out. I waited in an attempt to ensure that it found you at a time where it could be viewed as a compassionate letter from someone who cared deeply for you, and not as a ploy for anything but that.
I know what we shared. I need no validation or concurrence to know that we had something most only hope to find. We were better together than we could have been apart. We were puzzle pieces. It came so natural for me to love you since that crisp fall night. Being a partner, being a parent, being overly career oriented, and working through the toughest stage of the marriage map did not come natural to me. My intention was to know you everyday for the rest of your life, to give you the best of me everyday, and for you to be proud of your life and ours. I wanted to contribute to your happily ever after. Having a family. Writing a book. Going to Fiji. Anything and everything. Similarly, you were the only one I wanted to be a part of mine. These intentions were exploited by real life and real issues, which exemplified the lack of relationship skills necessary to nurture us through the toughest times.
It could be said that we know nothing of each other now, if not for the children we would have no relationship whatsoever. Certainly on some level that is true, which I find saddening.
My hope for you is that you live life to the fullest, love and trust with every fiber of your being, that you confront your fears, and laugh with your whole body each and every day… “Live as much as you can, because you need something to write about.”
Sincerely,
mahhhty
Mahhhty, I love your letter. I actually learned something about my own sitch from reading it, you are a compassionate and loving man, thank you for sharing this. Are you going to give it to her?
I'll look it over too in a little while...but wanted to throw up a quick post to keep an eye out for my response. I'm still under restriction (longer than anyone I've ever seen on here) so it might not appear immediately.
I love your letter too Mahhhty... I wish you the best. You too deserve all those nice things you wished for her. Are you going to give it to her???
It's a nice letter. I always strongly believed she was/is wayward (and OM is probably a married man since he hasn't surfaced yet). The illness actually gives me reason to suspect that a 29 year old wife MIGHT divorce for other reasons (like I don't want to live my last few years on this planet in this miserable unhappy marriage, I might take on a single life and live a little while also helping my husband move on without me).
[another side thought - I've seen several couples over the years deal with infidelity where one of the spouses had an affair with another patient being treated for the same illness. They quickly bond over the shared experience and then share way too much personal information and bang...they are "in love". Cancer and Dialysis patients that have to sit tough many hours of treatment together or participate in support groups have this happen. Again, since no OM has surfaced this far into it...IF it happened or it's happening, OM would be still married and unable or unwilling to divorce]
Anyway...IF she's wayward...this letter is nice out for her. It'll just reinforce the rationalizations and justifications she already told herself.
From a sales point of view I wonder if you haven't walked past your close. There is no call to action. There is no - "in case you haven't noticed, I've actually still willing to reconcile, I know I act like I'm moving on but I'm obviously still hopeful. It's been almost a year since you moved out and I just wanted to apologize, clean up my side of the street and let you know I did cherish what we had and wish I had done things differently. That being said, we made a great couple and we could do it again AND our kids deserve any shot we can give them towards having an intact family. Therefore, I am not begging you nor giving you any kind of ultimatum. We are divorced...I fully understand that. However, if there is ANY semblance of an opportunity to even consider discussing reconciliation of our marriage and family...speak now.. Time is of the essence.
something like that ....in your words.
Absent a call to action- you are just being nice to her and hoping she reads between the lines. A man says what he means and means what he says. If you still want to reconcile and feel you need to write this letter as a last ditch shot to get back together...then just tell her that.
Mahhhty, I love your letter. I actually learned something about my own sitch from reading it, you are a compassionate and loving man, thank you for sharing this. Are you going to give it to her?
Photoka - I'm dying to know.... please sure what did you learn? Will I give it to her... Yes. I think I will this time. Once I get it finalized.
I love your letter too Mahhhty... I wish you the best. You too deserve all those nice things you wished for her. Are you going to give it to her???
Thanks Overcom. I believe I will once I finalize it.
Bulldog - First, thanks for continuing to look in on me. Thank you! Its been a long road, but you were one of the first responders to my sitch.
It's a nice letter. I always strongly believed she was/is wayward (and OM is probably a married man since he hasn't surfaced yet). The illness actually gives me reason to suspect that a 29 year old wife MIGHT divorce for other reasons (like I don't want to live my last few years on this planet in this miserable unhappy marriage, I might take on a single life and live a little while also helping my husband move on without me).
You did always believe she had an OM. I believe in a way I have convinced myself of that as well. However, I think someone in her family would have told me by now. Which if it is true, it will be even worse for her (she is the closest with family).
Someone along the road told me a story of someone who divorced their husband, only to strengthen the bond between H and kids, before she passed of a serious illness. I've heard that story.
Anyway...IF she's wayward...this letter is nice out for her. It'll just reinforce the rationalizations and justifications she already told herself.
From a sales point of view I wonder if you haven't walked past your close. There is no call to action. There is no - "in case you haven't noticed, I've actually still willing to reconcile, I know I act like I'm moving on but I'm obviously still hopeful. It's been almost a year since you moved out and I just wanted to apologize, clean up my side of the street and let you know I did cherish what we had and wish I had done things differently. That being said, we made a great couple and we could do it again AND our kids deserve any shot we can give them towards having an intact family. Therefore, I am not begging you nor giving you any kind of ultimatum. We are divorced...I fully understand that. However, if there is ANY semblance of an opportunity to even consider discussing reconciliation of our marriage and family...speak now.. Time is of the essence. something like that ....in your words.
Absent a call to action- you are just being nice to her and hoping she reads between the lines. A man says what he means and means what he says. If you still want to reconcile and feel you need to write this letter as a last ditch shot to get back together...then just tell her that.
I agree that this letter provides her with the ammo to believe she is the victim. I also agree with the concept of a call to action, and that if it is what I want I should just say it.
I'll have to think about it. I have no idea what that would be like. I do believe our story and our children deserved us to at least attempt reconciliation. But that was a year ago now.
Thought provoking as always GB!
I'm not sure what you are hoping to accomplish by this letter. If it is to convince her you area better man, it likely won't work, at least at this time. If it is to clear your conscience, it may, but I don't see it improving your R. If it is heal the wounds you caused, I don't think this will do it, again at least not now.
I don't think she is ready to hear this for what it is. I think she'll see it as an attempt to manipulate or pursue, when she's told you not to. It's not that the letter or the sentiments behind them are wrong or bad. It is that she is not in a place where she is going to hear them and see them for what they are. It is one thing to want to express yourself, and another thing to do it well. Doing it well requires considering the state of the intended audience. If you get to the friendship or even piecing stage, this will be very effective. Now, I don't see it being so.
I'd stick it back in the drawer and let it age some more. It's not like it needs to be sent now. It may make you feel better to give it, but is your purpose to feel better or treat the person you still clearly love in a way that feels loving to her. I'd put my needs behind that end any day. Some day, if things truly are finished for you, you can always trot it out and give it to her, even if she won't received it any better. It just won't jeopardize your DBing then.
I wholly endorse asitis view.
I am not convinced that your W is wholly wayward, if I received this letter from my WH it would really annoy me.
I am going to ponder a little.
V
Mahhhty, I learned that I am not yet fully done with owning up to my side of the problem. I learned that I have more soul searching to do, I should be able to say (if only to myself) the things you did, the part about trivializing her perspective. I did that, I trivialized H's perspective, but in my heart I still believe his perspective was/is trivial. I know I should have listened better, I do listen better, and I validate and show outward signs of respect, but, to be honest, every time he talks about our problems I inwardly cringe at the stupidity of what he is saying. I am nowhere near as compassionate and self aware as you are. Not yet anyway.
Photoka - We can all do better, but only if we learn. My X at one point said to me, that she wished I hit her so that people could see how much pain she was in. Similarly, she believed I had an affair for 1.5 years and never said anything until after she asked for a D. I had no idea she felt those ways. I believe I did those things in the letter, whole heartedly. I also believe they are fairly common during the 7 year itch period of the marriage map, which is known for discounting your partner and placing blame. As you know it isn't how married couples deal with the good times, it is how they deal with the bad times.
V - I would love to know why you think she is not wayward. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Asitits - I've thought about your post for a long time. As an engineer, I took MWD's comment of "do what works" to heart. Letters or written correspondence has worked in the past. So that combined with a compassionate letter was my next "test."
GB - If I ever do send a letter, I will make sure it does have some call to action to it. I think that is a good point to attempt to "close" on something as a result of the letter.
She is a stubborn passive woman and she does hold grudges. In a way, I'm not sure I see this changing. We had an email exchange today, which all but solidified this and me not sending the letter. Time to put it back in the drawer.
I responded to one of her emails from a few days ago.
"24th will work. I’ve altered my schedule. And S3 is signed up for 8:30 AM on Nov 12."
Her response.
"I told you I couldn’t make the November 12th date? I would like to be there. There were other dates to pick from.'
My response.
"I didn’t remember your availability. But I do see value in getting S4 into [My Town] rather than another district, as he will be going to school there. Are you unable to alter your schedule?"
Her.
"As I wrote last week, I have an event that day and obviously cannot move it. I would like to be there, so let me know if you would like me to call and reschedule.
It is inappropriate of you to assume that they are attending [My Town]. That was not decided, please refer back to the parenting plan. If you would like to start having a conversation about this, then please let me know and can we can sit down to discuss."
Me.
"I’m sorry about the time of the appointment. The email was almost 2 weeks old. My attention span is not that long. That is my fault. I can set up the appointment for the 27th at the [Another School], what times will work for you? As you will have the kids.
I’m glad you brought this up. So far our coparenting style has been reactive. As such, D4 has missed out on the art classes and soccer this year. If we are going to do the best for our children, I think we need to step up, put our issues aside and put them first. I know we are doing our best independently, but I think we can do better for them. I’m not sure how we get there, and I believe it will take time. But I am ready and willing. "
I thought my last response was good. Kicking down the door, trying to put the kids first. Not casting blame on her but on us. But no response... Response time went from 10 min to not at all.
Furthermore, she won't be coming to pick up tomorrow AM per the parenting plan. This is the second time she has not complied with the plan, maybe third. She hangs on family to pick up the pieces of the mess she contributed to. I struggle with a person that hangs the parenting plan over my head, but doesn't follow it herself.
Like this wasn't enough. The Transplant Program Application came today. Talk about a lot to wrap my head around.
I don't have a lot of wisdom to contribute Mahhhty, V and Asitis are my go to's around here.
However, I did learn a lot from reading your letter as well. The part about owning your own feelings was important to read. The letter also upset me as I felt for you and saw a lot of my own feelings in it. It was moving and that's important for whenever the right time to have it read by your W presents itself.
I'm sending you strength, and though how you asked the two of you to step up together to be powerful. Keep putting you best foot forward, it sounds very frustrating to try to coordinate and run things smoothly with your XW.
Big hug,
PP
Basically I think an OM would have surfaced by now.
There does not seem to be much crazy addictive stuff, I think you would know.
But hey I am not a wayward expert!
V
V - I would have thought so. But she is prideful, stubborn and passive. I have never seen remorse, and I see resentment in the emails still.
But then she reaches out to me more than I reach out to her.
This weekend was a good example. I had told her parents Friday AM when I dropped off the kids, that I would be away teaching my first whitewater instructional course (one of my goals, and it was really fun). And I would be leaving that night. Well, as luck would have it, she asked me to drop off some toys for the kids that they could have lived without. I dropped them off, and it was cordial. I ended up staying for about 40 min. Then Saturday during the day she sent me pictures of both kids and a text. She took the kids to the party store and they were trying on costumes, glasses, masks, etc. They had a really good time and she sent me some pictures.
She will reach out to me for these things, but yet she won't respond to my email request of getting together.
Furthermore, Friday AM, the kidney doctor called from the transplant office. I passed the initial screening test and the blood test. Now they would like me to come in and get an MRI, Ultrasound and a tissue test to see if I am a match. I spoke with the doctor about donating to my kids and not to her. She thought it was a bad idea, saying that my kidney will be much older than what the kids would require. It is a better idea to donate now if I am going to donate.
X doesn't know I was tested. If I was to do this, I have to fully commit to it. I have to be doing it only for my kids. Not for her, and with no expectations or arrangements.
This is by far my biggest test for compassion and selflessness. Donating an organ to the mother of my children, for my children. But also, donating an organ to a woman who does not love me, is resentful, doesn't not care about me or my future, and only will contact me when she needs something.
Very difficult. I'd like to know what people think.
I'd also like to thank V, GB, Photoka, overcome and asitis for weighing in. That you guys for keeping me in check last week. I needed that.
You said it yourself, you'd be doing it for your kids, not her.
That said, I can't imagine donating an organ to my H right now, although I hope I would if it meant my daughter would keep her father.
Sorry, no help from me.
I think you need to donate the kidney. Your kids are young now, but when they grow up they will realize what you did for them.
On a side note, I was watching the news one night, and someone I grew up with (and lost touch with) was going through a divorce and her H had donated a kidney, and as part of the D settlement he was asking for his kidney back.
M,
just look in your heart. You will know the right answer right away. No need to poll these boards...
I think it is amazing that you are even considering this move.
Stay strong buddy...
Gosh, I've been gone (more than) a few days and am way behind.
First I wanted to give you the advice my DB coach gave me when it came to sending a letter, not sure if you are still getting coaching but mine gave me tips on a last resort letter. As I looked thru my notes I have to admit I'm a little confused (lol) but maybe you can decipher it.
I know that you are done with our R and have moved on. I would like to share with you thoughts and feelings I have re: things I did that were hurtful to you and our R.
-list of complaints
-what she has told you and what you think
-let her know you get it, no justification
For all the above I ask for your forgiveness. (optional: if you think this is manipulation it isn't)
Despite how unhappy you've been in our R your x yrs commitment has been remarkable.
As I said to you b4 I don't think D was the answer to our problems none the less I respect you enough to let you go as that was your choice.
As painful and difficult as this sitch has been, the blessing in disguise is that it's leading me to who I want to be either alone or in a future R.
Plz do not reply.
You are obviously at a different point in your R than I was/am and would have to adjust it to fit you. Just some thoughts if you do decide to send a letter. I hope the letter you wrote gave you some release but don't think you should send it.
Ok, next, on the parenting plan. Maybe it's time you call her out on it and force the issue (somewhat). Why should you be held accountable by her on something she is not holding herself accountable for?
As for the kidney, I agree with Vapo, this is a decision you will have to make for yourself. Good you asked the Doc about possibly donating to your children. For what it's worth I think your reason for wanting to give her your kidney are more true to who you are (kind, loving, giving man) than your reasons against (why should I give her my kidney when she doesn't love me/hurt me). This isn't something to be taken lightly however and you have to do what is right for you, and you alone.
lost
Gmum, Photoka, Vapo and Lost,
Thank you for stopping by. I agree with you all. You were right. I knew the answer somewhere deep down.
Lost,
I was able to decipher your notes and I think there are some good pointers in there I can incorporate.
Photoka,
In regards to the news.... Good thing for me I am already D'ed!
She emailed me today, in response to last week. She was cordial. I'm on business today and had to let the email sit for awhile. She asked if I would like to see S open his costume (it came in the mail, it is a TRex and he is super excited). I said I would like to and that I am available tomorrow and the rest of the week. I think she wanted me to do it today. Oh well.
Last night, I crashed at my Sister and BIL's. They have 3 kids who see me as the fun uncle so that was a lot of fun. After the kids crashed we talked about the kidney situation.
Through some thought provoking discussions with them I've come to the realization, that I need to discuss it with her. I'm willing and able to do it. But it does put our kids in jeopardy if both parents aren't healthy. One of us has to be around for the next 25+ years. I also whitewater kayak like a fiend, which carries a level of risk on its own.
So I think my position is that if things for her are critical I will offer immediately. But I would like to hear her thoughts, and believe this needs to be a co-parenting decision.
Now that I've wrapped my head around that I need to figure out how I would like to approach it with her.
Also my D BDay is the 21st and her party is at my house on the 24th. It is about to get busy...
Donating a kidney is a big deal Mahhhty especially in the light of your D.
I guess if WH needed a kidney then I would donate. He may need a new liver soon and definitely some grey cells!
This is a major op too, there is risk.
RD has kidney issues and was on dialysis at one point.
This is very big stuff. You are very brave.
V
That is true. I neglected to consider the fact that the surgery could leave both parents at risk. I think whatever decision you make is the right one.
Again, not help from here. Sorry.
She emailed me today, in response to last week. She was cordial. I'm on business today and had to let the email sit for awhile. She asked if I would like to see S open his costume (it came in the mail, it is a TRex and he is super excited). I said I would like to and that I am available tomorrow and the rest of the week. I think she wanted me to do it today. Oh well.
Last night, I crashed at my Sister and BIL's. They have 3 kids who see me as the fun uncle so that was a lot of fun. After the kids crashed we talked about the kidney situation.
Through some thought provoking discussions with them I've come to the realization, that I need to discuss it with her. I'm willing and able to do it. But it does put our kids in jeopardy if both parents aren't healthy. One of us has to be around for the next 25+ years. I also whitewater kayak like a fiend, which carries a level of risk on its own.
So I think my position is that if things for her are critical I will offer immediately. But I would like to hear her thoughts, and believe this needs to be a co-parenting decision.
Now that I've wrapped my head around that I need to figure out how I would like to approach it with her.
Also my D BDay is the 21st and her party is at my house on the 24th. It is about to get busy...
Real quick here.
Before I, as your friend, could ever support you giving her a kidney I'd want you to be 100% super sure she isn't (and wasn't) having an affair on you.
I know it probably feels like you are over it now...but if all this was because of some married dork at her office or some other guy she met at dialysis...and she destroyed you and your family over it....AND then you give her a kidney. That's just too much.
Even if it is revealed she had one...at least then you could decide to still give her a kidney with that knowledge. It's just he finding out afterwards.
PLUS - if she's wayward, then IMO, she's a pretty unfit parent and therefore you probably shouldn't be risking your life because your kids need you, their much more stable parent (emotionally and physically) to be around them...for sure and forever.
I don't know how you accomplish knowing "for sure"
perhaps:
1. Private Eye (what the heck is she up to when you are out of town or with the kids)
2. You follow her when she's not expecting it (or GPS her car)
3. Followed by straight up asking her - "I'm thinking about stepping up to the plate and giving you my kidney but before I do I have to be absolutely certain without a doubt that you didn't divorce me because you were cheating on me with another guy....I couldn't take finding out later that you betrayed me and then, without me knowing, took my kidney too. That's not to say I wouldn't donate it to you anyway...but I have to know the truth about why you really divorced me....a full honest explanation that, I feel, you've never given me"
4. Whatever she says....ask her if she's willing to submit to a lie detector test as a way for you to verify her words. (you don't have to follow through but she better believe you mean to follow through with the test - lots of people admit stuff on the way to the polygraphers office)
5. In the alternative - did she take 1/2 your retirement savings in the divorce? Ask her if she'd be willing to sign a document giving those back to you after the surgery if it is later discovered that she's lying.
Might seem extreme...but I can't imagine the pain of discovering she cheated a couple years down the road when she's healthy again and you have lingering pains, scars and/or other issues due to the surgery.
Before I, as your friend, could ever support you giving her a kidney I'd want you to be 100% super sure she isn't (and wasn't) having an affair on you.
They are divorced so she can't be having an affair, it is simply a new relationship at this point. My 2 cents but I don't see Mahhhty contemplating this huge decision and then changing his mind based on her relationship status. Maybe I'm wrong...
Hey Mahhhty, how's it going? How did D's birthday party go? Anything new in Mahhhty land?
Marty . . . Surprise! Just checking in on a long-time friend.
Thanks for checking in on me guys. I have been really busy the last couple weeks. My startup is really taking off and I'm trying to make sure I'm in a place to take it live as early as January 1st. And I'm working on buying some space to run the business out of.
Besides that, here are the cliff notes.
Before D's Party, we got together at a coffee shop for about an hour and a half. We talked about planning for the party and the latest on her disease. I then explained to her that I had been tested and was potentially willing to donate my kidney, but if it came to that I would need to have a real conversation with her before doing so. I eluded to the risk for our children, but kept most of it vague. But I left the ball in her court. She said thank you (first thank you for anything in more than a year). After that she was very chatty about her work. Towards the end when conversation got light talking about herself, she asked me about me (first time in a year). I kept it light, probably said more than I wanted to about myself. Numerous times within the conversation her passive nature came out. One example was a story about her doctor and not asking questions. I was able to chime in and try to validate first and then redirect her passiveness.
The party went off fine my D had a great time. I tried to just stay away from X. When she was at the house. It feels too normal, so I just avoid her. And she had the kids that night, so they all left at the end of the night, which meant the house got very quiet.
I had the kids on Halloween. But I agreed to letting her have them from 3-5. Naturally, she didn't pick them up until 345 and didn't bring them back until 530. Almost ruining the plans we had to go with our neighbors.
Besides that, she routinely tries to be in control of the kids schedule. But routinely needs help, due to work or travel. However she only asks for help in the last minute. And thats when she asks, sometimes she just expects it to occur.
Now in addition to her, her dad needs a kidney as well, and her last grandmother is in assisted living. I truly feel bad for her family and what they are going through.
I don't call this person. I don't reach out to her in anyway besides the kids. I think in a way that was "dropping the rope for me." I have continuously tried to create an environment to promote a future with her. I'm seeing now that perhaps this isn't dropping the rope at all.
Hi. On the kidney thing , I have had two kidneys transplants and it's a gift that ( normally ) cannot be bought.
The effort of being on Dyalisis is incredible. I worked full time and did Dyalisis in the evenings and could hardly think straight during the day.
I would make very sure your in the correct mind frame to accept that this gift is given without one inch of self serving thought behind it
After all I have posted above I would struggle to give the gift to my EXW but I do like to think that I will get to that place one day.
Re the dangers , I'm in Ireland and the dangers are not significant while the pain is !!!!!
Just my thoughts from a very , very lucky and grateful transplant receiver
Take care. Rd
Thanks RD, you are right. I think based on today, it would have been with some self-serving expectation.
Allow me to explain....
There was a development immediately after posting this AM. That had thrown me through a loop. I was told that X may be with someone, and to check out social media. I did and put the pieces together and found that it might be 99% accurate.
After reeling for awhile, I decided to bring, not email, not text, but bring my letter to her and confront her. The letter was mostly the same. This was impulsive, but I decided to listen to my gut.
I got there and asked to talk. Made small talk about the kidney transplant (she has 11 potential donors, thanks to her Mom's FB campaign). I gave her the letter and asked her to read it. She sat down and went through it. She didn't cry. She didn't get emotional. At the end, she asked when I wrote it and she said it was really nice.
Letter:
X,
A person who loves their spouse does not do anything unloving or unkind in manner, word or action. Love is what love does. I was oblivious to your pain, and its depth. I trivialized your perspective, was consumed with distractions, hence withdrawn, amped up and overly critical.
As I am sure you felt, lying next to each other became the loneliest place in the world.
Divorce is an individual problem. It cannot be generalized. Of course, for some there should never be a marriage. For others, divorce is no more a solution than a marriage is for a lonely person. For me, it is unfortunate that your actions, not your words, were the catalyst I needed for personal growth. I lost my way and myself. I focused on being a victim circumstance in a situation I couldn't change or control, rather than being in control of my happiness and my life. I felt entitled to happiness, and expected it to happen to me without work or effort. Obviously, that is a ridiculous notion. Animosity and fear were in my closet on a personal level and as a partner, preventing me from confronting and being receptive to issues with empathy and compassion. I constantly felt my solutions were the only way and the correct way. I kept score, felt unloved, un wanted and unappreciated. I was in an emotional/physical rut, which felt like a grey cloud was over me.
I acknowledge and understand that you were deeply hurt. After all a woman who historically disliked change, sought the largest change possible for a family. On some level I'm sure there are people, actions, stories or events that supported the belief that divorce was your key to happiness. Without you explaining it, I won't ever understand your perspective or timeline. You don't make me happy, sad or angry, those are my feelings to deal with. I've worked through those in my own way at my own speed.
I am sorry for my contributions to our demise.
To say I have missed you would be an understatement. I hoped for many days that you would walk back in like you never left. It wasn't until a conversation with your parents when I understood you never would. Alternately, if it wasn't for you leaving I may have never taken a hard look at me. I'ver learned more about myself and relationships than ever before. My life is heading in a new direction. One that I control.
Surely, this letter gives you any ammo you need to reinforce the idea that I'm the cause of your unhappiness and you are a victim of my actions. I know you felt this at least once, when you said, "I wished you had hit me, so people could tell I was in pain." I no longer think that is a reflection on myself. I can already hear myself in my S, when he says "Daddy are you happy?" At the crux of me that is all I want, for the people around me to have fun and be happy. I wish you spoke up and did so before you wanted to leave. I imagine by the time you were able to stay it out loud, you were already thinking about leaving.
I believe we failed our children, our families, our vows, and each other. I believe the characteristics you and you're sister love about your parents are the exact ones we couldn't achieve by working together. I think its the hard times that make a lasting couple, not the happy ones. The grass is never greener on the other side it is green where you water it.
I know what we shared. I need no validation or concurrence to know that we had something most only hope to find. We were better together than we could have been apart. You were my puzzle piece. It came so naturally for me to love you since that fall night. Being a partner, being a parent, being overly career oriented, and working through the toughest part of the marriage map did not. My intentions was to know you everyday for the rest of your life, to give you the best of me everyday, and for you to be proud of your life and ours. I wanted to contribute to your happily ever after. Having a family. Writing a book. Going to Fiji. Any and all. Similarly, you were the only one I wanted to be a part of mine. These intentions were exploited by real life issues, which exemplified the lack of relationship skills necessary to nurture us through the toughest times.
It should be said that we know nothing of each other now. If not for the children we would have no relationship at all. Certainly that is true, which I find saddening. I never wanted to know a day without you, and now I have known far too many.
My hope for you is that you live life to the fullest, love and trust with every fiber of your being, that you confront your fears, and laugh with your whole body each and every day… “Live as much as you can, because you need something to write about.”
mahhhty
Perhaps b/c I wasn't getting the reaction I wanted we started talking. No begging, pleading or anything of that nature. But I did say, I have to know was there someone else. She said there wasn't but there is now. I pressed a little further to check the timeline of our divorce but she held fast that they were not together then.
At the end, I gave her a couple photo albums that she had done. One was the book she gave me after our first year together. 2 pages for every month, all scrapbooked together with at least one sentence for every get together for the year. I told her that was the most genuine present I ever received but it didn't feel right anymore.
About 30 min later, I receive this email:
"I’m still processing what just happened and this letter, but I felt blindsided. Please don’t show up unannounced again. If you need to talk about something, then let me know and we can meet somewhere.
No need to respond."
Why would she respond confrontationally via email? She wasn't confrontational when I was there? and should I respond back?
I would imagine if I do, it will be to really drop the rope, identify that its over, and build a boundary as a business coparenting relationship.
I know I probably shouldn't have done all this. But at least now I know. I needed closure. I think I have it.
I'm ready for a nap, a beer, or to go boating...
Mahhhty, we are in different situations but both strayed from the book. I don't know how or if it would be best to respond to something like that but wanted to know I'm keeping an eye on you sitch and wish you luck!
Thanks for the support Uphill.
Its time for me to move on. I am starting to doubt that anything I do will have an impact on her.
I don't know if you read up on my sitch, but Sunday OM was confirmed. Long story short, we had a good long conversation about it over the phone. Then last night talked face to face for a long time. Overall good conversation but I confronted the situation the wrong way and gave her an ultimatum. By Friday I want an answer which way he is going... Definatly not DB but it's how it happened.
V... I read a bunch of your posts today. You are a saint. You try to help so many people. Its amazing. I have the utmost respect for you.
Thanks for the support Uphill.
Its time for me to move on. I am starting to doubt that anything I do will have an impact on her.
WRONG!!!
You figuring out what will or will not have an impact on her is totally wrong. You really should focus on you...
Vapo - You are right. I have tried to impact her. I have had expectations. In a sign of weakness I acted impulsively to try to make an impact. You are right.
I have done a ton of work on me, and am very busy with many things. It is time to get back to that.
V... I read a bunch of your posts today. You are a saint. You try to help so many people. Its amazing. I have the utmost respect for you.
Thank you M.
I return the compliment.
V
Thanks Lady V!
So... I haven't responded. I am finally on board with what everyone has told me for awhile. It is unfortunate for me that I am trusting, naive and optimistic.
Newcomers heed my warning... Don't trust what you are told by someone leaving a relationship.
She has been with him for awhile. The new toy has met her family weeks ago. Her nor anyone from her family approached me. This isn't new. She stated she wasn't with him while we were getting divorced, but I don't believe her. How could I believe anything at this point?
I offered her my kidney days ago and she didn't tell me. I would say that is manipulation and low integrity at its finest.
The rope is dropped.
Maahty, I'm so sorry. I hope this news at least gives you some kind of closure or clarity of your next step.
You're the one who brought Jack Canfield to my attention, so now I will bring him to yours: Remember E + R = O.
Continue to GAL and focus on yourself and your kids.
Wish I could offer you some comfort or wisdom.
It is also fortunate that you are trusting, naive and optiistic.
That is not all you are. Is it?
I challenge you to find 30 character traits that define you, so
1. Trusting
2. Naive
3. optiimstic
4. Caring
5. Loving
6. Articulate......
There kick started it for you!
V
Leave it to Lady V to challenge me, make me think and be correct all in the same post.
30 was tough.... I had to throw some of my not so proud traits, that I am aware of.
1. Trusting
2. Naive
3. Optimistic
4. Caring
5. Loving
6. Articulate......
7. Sociable/Friendly
8. Self aware
9. Outgoing
10. Adventurous/Nature Lover
11. Grateful/Appreciative/Polite
12. Kayak Enthusiast
13. Spontaneous
14. Rambunctious
15. Love to have fun
16. Passionate about the things I love
17. Can be persistent/thick headed/snappy
18. Can be obsessive or fixated
19. Procrastinator
20. Avuncular
21. Great with kids
22. Engineer/Problem Solver
23. I love to learn, not always through reading
24. I can be overly consumed with me
25. But I’m always willing to help if asked
26. Hard working
27. Coachable
28. Sleepy Head
29. Dog lover
30. A loving father
Last night, I did a lot more thinking in regards to what V (THANK YOU) was talking about. I tried to find another source of the traits that made me me. I found something she gave me from Feb 14, 2012, a craft project, card read "10 reasons we love you! Love Mama & D."
"You love us no matter what we say or do." <----(Can you imagine, that I read this first)
"You have incredible dreams about our future.
You don't mind watching chick flicks or Sesame Street.
You make us laugh especially when we need it.
You listen to me and want to solve my problems.
You are the BEST at tucking us in.
You make me coffee.
You inspire us to be passionate about life.
You love my cooking (even my experiments).
You are a piece to OUR puzzle."
Reading this was cathartic, I even cracked a smile. But that was the life I had and not the direction I am headed now.
I finally get it, after doing many things wrong. I have no more social media ties with her. She is not favorited on my phone and her pictures are not up (except for the kids room). Frames/Art she liked is gone. I am done with her and her family (I will always be outgoing with my x-nieces though, whenever I see them), I won't approach any of them again. I will be what the situation calls for.... An Amazing Father and her business ACQUAINTANCE, nothing more.
In the process of removing things off my phone, I accidentally called her and hung up quickly, the call timer was still at 0:00. But she called back immediately sounding happy and bubbly. I wanted to explain my upcoming actions or talk about her response to a letter I spent sooooo much time on, but she does not want to hear. So, I acted surprised about the call and got off the phone quickly.
Love,
This letter to you is the last one I will write that you will never read. I've been kidding myself for a year. I needed closure and surely you have provided it. Knowing what I know now, many things throughout the situation make sense. I believe you have lied to me, manipulated me and the situation for some self-serving goals. I can't imagine a scenario in which you didn't cheat on me or want to cheat. I deserve more. I will not be your doormat. You have dived even further into your work world, which impacts your side of the 50/50 arrangement. While I am developing the world of my dreams in which I can see the kids all summer. On these boards, people talk about making the Walkaway or Wayward Spouse the fool. I'd never call you a fool, but surely a mother leaving behind two children and a husband who would have done anything isn't deserving. We deserve better.
Your last boyfriend, your friends in high school, your friends in college, and now our relationship. All of those relationships were ended by you. No one but you could understand this. Perhaps it may be appropriate to say that you lean out when the only thing to save a relationship would be pushing forward into uncomfortable, uneasy, uncharted territory. I would have trudged through the deepest depths with you for our relationship.
Thanks to you I know the feeling of unconditional love. First with you, then with our kids. Thank you for that. Thank you for our book. That was the most genuine and thoughtful gift I have received in my life. Thank you for our two children who have the opportunity to be the best we have to offer.
Goodbye.
Mahhhty
On to the next day.
6th: The Next Day...
To finish,
There is no need to explain the challenge.
You really truly get it.
V