So, I found this email, in our fair game joint business account, well over a month ago. I never shared it with the group, but I'm sharing it now. This email was sent a mere four days after a camping trip that my W and I attended at the invitation of the OW, a trip during which I had absolutely no idea my W was as unhappy as it turned out she was, and during which she was very affectionate, loving, and kind towards me.
The bomb drop would come fewer than two weeks later, following a week during which my W clearly employed some of the tactics suggested herein.
I can't imagine the conversation that preceded this email, but it was this email that confirmed my assertion that the OW was a predator, even if my W independently voiced dissatisfaction with our relationship.
I would like to know what the group - especially any vets - think about this. Again, this isn't to dwell on the OW, but I think it confirms that from the moment this email was sent till right now, the OW has been driving the train. And the more context I can put things in, the better equipped I feel I will be to see my DBing through.
Thanks for any insight.
____________________________________________________________________
Some thoughts, my dearest E…
After our talk today, I believe your intention is to end your relationship with Dif after the boys leave. I'm not really sure, so if that isn’t true, let me know! I don’t want to be in a relationship with you if it isn’t. That is hard to say, BELIEVE ME, but is the right thing to do if you won’t be leaving Dif within 2-3 months. If I compromise my values, I won’t be someone worth your love or mine.
If it IS true that you intend to leave Dif, I would like to suggest you start changing your interactions with her as soon as possible so she begins to feel some distancing. It isn’t fair to her to go on talking about future plans together and act as if the two of you have a solid relationship if you don’t. That sets her up for a bigger fall – and I think will make you feel even worse. If my intention was to leave someone, but to wait for a better time before doing it, I would try to treat who I was leaving more like a very close friend instead of a partner. This could be especially hard because your lives are deeply intertwined and you two have some very comfortable habits only couples have.
As much as I want to see you as often as possible, I don’t think we should plan any more things after this week that involve all 3 of us. That feels wrong. When the 3 of us are together, there will always be an elephant in the room, one that Dif may feel but not understand. And if she does find out later we were “pretending” to just be friends, she will be deeply hurt and angry. I still want to see you as much as I can, but I also know that is difficult.
I dream about an incredible life with you, E! And if that is to be, I don’t want to do anything now we will regret. Yes, one could say we are already having an emotional affair. I can live with that without feeling bad about myself because I know I can’t change my feelings… but I CAN change my behavior. As excruciatingly difficult as it is, I don’t believe we should touch beyond holding hands until we are truly free to be in a relationship and celebrate that. I can wait 2-3 months for that day, E. And if it comes, I will be the happiest woman on earth and do everything in my power to make you happy too!
OW
Blech.
Especially this part: "If I compromise my values, I won’t be someone worth your love or mine."
Yeah, ain't that line something? If she even had values to compromise...
Dif,
I have a lot of letters in my archives like this, unfortunately. I know firsthand how painful they are to read. For a long time I had strong urges to read and reread them, but doing so only served to make me feel worse. Not the best way to detach.
I'm definitely no vet, but I would just put the letter away. Get back to working on yourself.
RAI
Wow. Just, wow. Your W is on the strings of a mad pupeteer (OW). I would like to see what the vets have to say, but to me, you are right about the OW driving the train throughout this. It's sad that she has diluted your W's thinking and has to control how your W interacts with you, even from the beginning.
RAI... thanks for your empathy. I agree... this letter hasn't bothered me in a while. When I saw it though, it just confirmed my gut instincts. I thought a new thread here might be a good time to put it out to the group and get more input. I'm working on myself and praying for her. The OW is a miserable excuse for a human, imho...
WBM... my W is being completely driven by this woman, you're right. I am absolutely certain that any interaction we have that's negative is something the OW has orchestrated. It's the conflicting actions, the regret and remorse, the occasional glimpses of connection that emerge from my actual W, that give me hope that all is not lost.
And all that is why I'm not giving up...
Well, it's tough to read but it's similar to what I suspect has happened to Most of us who have had partners in a.
In my case xh2 refused point blank to end the a, and I decided if he could be stolen and coached by the nasty ow, he's just not a worthy h.
My plan was work in me, date me (as someone else coined) and see what else happens and Lo and behold things changed and other things have happened. It's nearly a couple of years since his a started and she's been the gf for over a year. It's unlikely he was coming back.
Dif
I only see an OW in lurve.......
Infatuation my friend with your WW.
Your WW could have fed this IDK and it is very hard as you saw this OW as a friend. An absolute double betrayal.
They have not hidden it at all, it's in plain view. Old Dog bless him has this with his WW who put lust notes where he could find them. In the end his anger moved him onwards, He hasn't posted in a while and I hope he is healing a little.
Still OW is a nasty little worm to act this way to the W of a friend. What a charmer.
WW has truly A down.
Stay strong for your sanity
V
V, I didn't consider the OW a friend, so I don't see it as a betrayal on her part. Just a cold, calculated, even sociopathic move. My W and I had literally only met her a few weeks prior to that camping trip. She was very busy trying to become friends with us both, though - came to dinner, invited us camping and for a movie night, really inserted herself uncomfortably into our lives like a third wheel until she found the moment to pounce. I have some friends who suggest she could have pounced on either one of us, but there was more vulnerability and opportunity with my W.
I have even suggested this theory to my W (against Wonka's good advice, of course). But suggesting it, combined with the suggestion that this woman has a past of which my W ought to beware (because if she's done this, what else has she done?) has planted a seed and, at least last week, got my W thinking and questioning - she's asked me a few times what I know that she doesn't. I just won't answer.
And yes, this affair is so out in the open, at least to me. She doesn't come home at all most nights now. Haven't seen my W since Friday afternoon - she's been with the OW all weekend and hosting open houses. I pray they've been having the kind of quality time together that begins to wear on an affair.
Got GAL plans today - brunch with friends, a mid-afternoon meetup, Mass tonight out of town followed a brewery visit. Looking forward to a pleasant day.
That seems like a very short time from their initial meeting to deciding to leave... Is this an exit A? Or is your WW very easily influenced in general?
The e-mail can absolutely be seen as controlling and manipulative. Coaching her on how to distance herself from you is very overbearing.
I have only seen one text from OW to H - it ended 'try not to rage tonight'. I have later realized how manipulative that was, as she knew I thought H was angry at me all the time (he was, out of guilt), but that day he was just coming back from a trip and we had no conflict. She was simply reminding him to be angry at me, but camouflaging it as care.
Yes, one could say we are already having an emotional affair. I can live with that without feeling bad about myself because I know I can’t change my feelings… but I CAN change my behavior. As excruciatingly difficult as it is, I don’t believe we should touch beyond holding hands until we are truly free to be in a relationship and celebrate that. I can wait 2-3 months for that day, E. And if it comes, I will be the happiest woman on earth and do everything in my power to make you happy too!
This is my favorite part...she's right, she can't control her feelings, just her behavior...only isn't sending a profession of love to a committed woman and encouraging her to leave her family a 'behavior'?
If she really believed in this "can't control feelings only behavior" she would've had a moment of silence for the desire she couldn't fulfill and backed the #_^U_( off...
Diff,
Here's my take on the OW email to W.
_____________________________
Some thoughts, my dearest E…
After our talk today, I believe your intention is to end your relationship with Dif after the boys leave. Yeah, PLANT that darn seed in W's mind that leaving Diff is the BEST path forward. Yesss...let's hit the TNT button. I'm not really sure, so if that isn’t true, let me know! Oops...the opening line was just pure evil. Better show my "good-girl" side just to keep things balanced here. I don’t want to be in a relationship with you if it isn’t. That is hard to say, BELIEVE ME, but is the right thing to do if you won’t be leaving Dif within 2-3 months. If I compromise my values, I won’t be someone worth your love or mine. Gee, I ought to show that I am a neutral and concerned friend that is supportive of W. Nah, let me just serve W some more Koolaid here with the carrot dangling enticement of forbidden fruit here. Meet Eve and the snake.
If it IS true that you intend to leave Dif, I would like to suggest you start changing your interactions with her as soon as possible so she begins to feel some distancing. We know that you DO plan to leave Diff. Let's cut to the chase here. You don't want to mess with me so you better listen to what I say here. It isn’t fair to her to go on talking about future plans together and act as if the two of you have a solid relationship if you don’t. That sets her up for a bigger fall – and I think will make you feel even worse. If my intention was to leave someone, but to wait for a better time before doing it, I would try to treat who I was leaving more like a very close friend instead of a partner. Better stop having sex with the W! No way, no how! It is all about US. This could be especially hard because your lives are deeply intertwined and you two have some very comfortable habits only couples have. Nope. Not that hard now that I've dangled the forbidden fruit in front of your eyes.
As much as I want to see you as often as possible, I don’t think we should plan any more things after this week that involve all 3 of us. Let me tease you a bit here. Let me play hard to get here. That feels wrong. Nah, my moral compass has long passed the cracking point here. Nevermind..pay no heed to that "moral high ground" comment. When the 3 of us are together, there will always be an elephant in the room, one that Dif may feel but not understand. Translation: There will be sexual tension between us and we don't want Diff to see that! No. It is so special that only two of us can understand each other. And if she does find out later we were “pretending” to just be friends, she will be deeply hurt and angry. Don't worry. We will just play "pull the wool over Diff's eyes" game here. Follow my lead, baby. I'll take care of it for you. I still want to see you as much as I can, but I also know that is difficult. I want to F@CK you so bad, but Diff is in the way. Ya know...
I dream about an incredible life with you, E! Oohh...la la. Our life together will be rainbows, cotton candy, and popsciles! No laundry, no bills, no conflicts, no stress. And if that is to be, I don’t want to do anything now we will regret. Yeah, come on....cut your arm off. Ignore the blood. Heck, I like drinking blood. Just do it!Yes, one could say we are already having an emotional affair. I can live with that without feeling bad about myself because I know I can’t change my feelings… but I CAN change my behavior. Forget about the "moral high ground", I just want to f@ck your brains. My behavior is screaming "Eat the darn apple!!!" As excruciatingly difficult as it is, I don’t believe we should touch beyond holding hands until we are truly free to be in a relationship and celebrate that. Gosh, my halo just fell off. I better pick it up so I can come across as an innocent Goody-Good Two Shoes Sally for appearances sake. I can wait 2-3 months for that day, E. Jeez, we 'have to' maintain this fake facade to the world that we are two upstanding citizens. Then we can rip apart your family because we're two uncontrollable bunnies. And if it comes, I will be the happiest woman on earth and do everything in my power to make you happy too! Ohh...I am so glad you decided to take a bite of that poisoned apple. I will do everything to feed into that addiction. No worries. My motto is this: "making my customers happy."
OW
Brilliant, Wonka...
My W called me this afternoon wanting to know where I was, because I was driving the car she wanted to trade in for a hybrid. (We'd already discussed who gets what car, and I happened to have "hers" at the time, so all was good.) She found me, we exchanged cars, and she asked before proceeding, "Is that okay, babe?" Not sure why she asked, but yeah, I actually thought it was a good move. She kissed me.
A bit later, I sent a text asking if she had already traded the car in. She called right away to ask again if I had a problem with it. I said no, just was wondering. But I also was wondering where she had stashed away a certain pair of pants I was hoping to wear to my first day on the job tomorrow. She showed up unexpectedly to help me find them.
I cut a phone conversation short to go out and see the car. Afterwards, she asked AGAIN what is it I know about the OW that she doesn't. That seed has really taken root, but I refuse to give it any more life of my own doing.
I will miss the old car, though.
Well, today is my first day on the new job and I can't say I'm really excited about it. I'm feeling ambivalent about this particular line of work, but like I said, it's going to keep me busy and occupied, so I'm grateful for that. It's storming here, and gloomy. Kind of like my life. I can't help but feel this morning, in spite of all my prayers and the signs here and there of cracks in their fantasy world, that I'm tilting at windmills, and that I really have lost her for good. It's a just a feeling, but it's hard for me to find hope today for coming out the other side of all this reconciled.
After work, I'm meeting someone for a drink. She's much younger than I am and interested in "older women," so I'm hoping she doesn't see it as more than that. But she did go out of her way to invite me to do this with her alone. My W also plans to be home tonight, so when I get back, I suspect there will be another round of "what do you know that I don't know" questions.
What I know is what she knows but chooses not to acknowledge: that the OW is a sociopath and a predator.
Wishing everyone here a good day.
Hi Diff
Well, that is an 'interesting' letter, to say the least and disturbing as well. I think Wonka has got the measure of it. Unfortunately, if your W goes ahead and leaves for good, her life will not be 'fantastic'. OW is a praying mantis b1tch.
A date with another person, whilst not recommended DB procedure, might just curb her attitude a bit. You don't actually have to do anything, it's just a drink.
Best of luck at the new job. Proud of you!
Dif ... hang in there, its not all doom and gloom.... you need to look in your dresser for the emergency PMA pouch.
Just a couple things reading you .... obvious thinhgs you might shake your head at with me ... you really need to detach more, get out of her scrambled head and focus on you and what you need to do... but more than that, do not allow her to cake eat... she seems like she is making sure, checking with you to make certain what she is doing is ok with you .... sure the car thing you might have had no issue with but rather than assure her... if it were me I would toss a truth dart and just state "You can do whatever you feel is right, you do not need my permission" and leave it at that.
I think the guilt and the inner gut talk might start wearing at her, when she asks you what you know about OW that she doesn't ... I would not be the "BFF" here. Let her know her A .... and its still an A is her circus to run and you will not be involved. Time to pull the cake off the table a little I think here ... I do not feel she thinks she would ever loose you .. what happens when she thinks she might?
Dif,
Thanks for the clarification on OW.
There is just one more thing you know about OW that WW doesn't know.
OW is a trade down.
V
HUDDY... yeah, disturbing letter. She is a preying mantis, a "mate poacher," and the "date" turned out to be very laid back. Even if there were more overt flirting, it would be a going nowhere situation. She's 16 years younger than me. Her mom? Four years older... yeesh...
MATT... Thanks for your kind words, as always. This is really just going to be a job for now, I think. When I'm in a better place mentally and emotionally, I will need to figure out what to do with the rest of my life.
CALI... you are very right... I am not detached enough. She was here tonight, and again kept asking what I know that she doesn't know. On and on... "you don't know anything, you're just making things up, trying to keep me, etc. etc." We got into it... I just don't know how to stop these arguments when she starts them. Sometime, like tonight, I think she does want me to disappear. The thought of losing me seems to be less of an issue for her... at least for now.
I know I can't make decisions based on her reactions. But today was a long and sad day where I just really missed what we had, and I'm trying so hard to detach and just work on me. Sometimes, that's easier said than done.
It's always easier said than done Dif. Always. That's because you care and didn't deserve to have your life and heart turned inside out.
Keep working on you Dif, keep praying and giving the whole thing to God. When you're feeling weak, put your hands together, take some deep breaths and feel the divine that surrounds you at all times. Especially now.
I'm sending you love and strength.
PP
Hope the new job is just the ticket for you! I am happy for you!!
Do you like it??
Stay strong.
Heavy
Thanks Pigpen. I'm trying... healing seems to really be a struggle.
Jury is out on the job, Heavy. This isn't going to be my lifelong job. It's just going to fill my time and pay the bills. I wish I had passion for something again. I may have been unlucky in love for stretches or unlucky with my job at times. But never has everything come together in such a negative way. Right now, I'm just feeling defeated.
But thank you all for your thoughts and prayers.
Diff
At least you know you can still be attractive to another. That's a positive worth keeping in mind, you don't have to act on it.
Dif
Google 'Affair down'
I am guessing with guilt and the fact the honeymoon phase can not and will not last, certain things with OW are bubbling to the surface. So in her gut she is wondering .. 'ok .. what is it with OW that felt oh so wonderful and now has started to fade?' (hence the 'break' she needed not long ago ... plus the seeds you planted) and she is looking to you for that 'ah ha' moment .... but DO NOT give her that .. that needs to happen with her, only she can arrive to the final "OW is not who I thought, nor who I truly want" .... hopefully then, you have created the best option after doing all this work you have done at DB-University.
It is now, its time for you to distance yourself a bit and take things for what they are. W needs time to figure it all out, and you need time to continue to work on yourself and you can not do that being all up in her head, or her in yours. Read enough here and the WAS has to FEEL they are going to lose the LBS at some point .... if you are always there and available ... standing outside the porch always waiting for her .... where is the reason for her to stop and think .... she is being allowed to continue as she desires with no consequences .. this is the important lesson, consequences are what keeps us from running out into the street, why we get a DD after drinking, they are rules we live by .. some of which we do because of our moral compass, but when that breaks ... then what? CONSEQUENCES help balance that out. To much cake makes one fat n happy. I am not saying slam the door in her face, you can have that door cracked open with a light on ... but inside the house you should be going about your life doing your thing and being happy ... not sitting on the couch awaiting her arrival like a puppy.
Cali, you always know what to say to help me adjust my perspective on things. I never had heard the term "affair down..." actually, maybe I have seen it here but didn't know what it meant. It really is true, though, huh?
Here's a little more detail from yesterday and this morning:
Last night, I came back from work and she was in "our" bedroom, packing clothes. She greeted me somewhat coldly. I cleaned up and went to head back out the door to meet this young woman for dinner. (Wound up being dinner, not just drinks! But also, I'd say, not a date.) She quickly asked, "Where are you going?" "I have plans," was all I said. Not that it should have mattered - she was heading out to show houses herself at the same time I was having dinner.
"When we come back, we talk?" she asked.
We did have plans to discuss some things last night once we both returned, things that needed to be discussed about upcoming living arrangements and securing transportation for my younger son. What the conversation really turned into, though, was a fishing expedition on her part - the now familiar "what do you know about OW" conversation. All I said was that it didn't matter what I knew or didn't know, if she were to hear anything directly from me, no good could come of it.
Then she started yelling: "OW couldn't sleep at all last night, she was pacing and racking her brain, trying to figure out what awful thing she could possibly have done that you know about!"
(I found this assertion strange: if my conscience were clear about my behavior, I certainly wouldn't let doubts about my behavior keep me up at night.)
"She even said, 'you know what, I'm going to confront Dif directly about this!'"
To which I simply could not resist responding - "OH NO, NOT HERE SHE WON'T! BUT IF SHE WANTS TO CONFRONT ME SOMEWHERE ELSE, TELL HER TO BRING IT ON! THOUGH IT DOESN'T MATTER - SHE NEVER WILL. SHE'S A COWARD."
Clearly, this just kept the heat on. Good job with the DBing, Dif.
Because then came all this familiar pap: "Have you ever considered that I might actually I love her? No one has ever made me feel this way. It's getting very serious between us, you have no idea. You are just being unreasonable about our breakup. You're just trying to make me leave her and come back to you. We are over, done, relationships don't work out all the time. You just need to accept this. I don't love you anymore."
I really wasn't engaging her much, except when she made a disparaging remark about how I'm praying for her. And when she told me to stop calling her terms of endearment like "babe" and "hon." I said I will always pray for her, and those terms are so natural, I can't help using them.
We went to bed angry - it was interesting that she went to bed upstairs.
This morning before work, I asked if we could talk again because I didn't want the bitterness of last night to linger. I told her that I was sorry for any harsh words, but that I find completely disrespectful her downplaying the significance of this event - this divorce, not a "breakup." She started to get mad at me again, but after conveying that only the most hardened heart would not be utterly devastated by what she's done, she seemed to back down and retreat. Her tone really did soften in response to a separation concession I requested. I sensed guilt. She suggested that later we take a ride in her "new" car. I ignored the suggestion.
And just now, she's up in her office, I'm downstairs. When I came in the door, she said, "Hon, is that you?" "You're done with work, hon?" "How was work today, hon?" All those terms of endearment that I'm supposed to stop using, her working overtime to not be so cold instead of working overtime to not be so warm, lest I "misinterpret her kindness as a sign of wanting to get back together."
I have my divorce support group tonight, grateful for that. And I think both my boys are off work - might ask if they want to grab an early dinner somewhere. Cali, I think the OW's daughter is in town, so odds are good my W will be sleeping here at home this week, and be around more often than she's been. A challenge and an opportunity, I guess. But on Sunday, I'm leaving here to spend a week with my friend in the next town over while her husband is away. I need the space, and WW needs to feel the absence.
And I know, I know... I need to focus on me. Prayers for her, actions for me.
To which I simply could not resist responding - "OH NO, NOT HERE SHE WON'T! BUT IF SHE WANTS TO CONFRONT ME SOMEWHERE ELSE, TELL HER TO BRING IT ON! THOUGH IT DOESN'T MATTER - SHE NEVER WILL. SHE'S A COWARD."
This made me laugh, so fierce!
Not likely to be the best DB option, however. Next time might be better to brush it off like its unimportant to you. OW isn't worth taking up space in your thoughts and emotions. By getting fired up you show W your in a place to be competing with OW, when you're not. You're on so much of a higher level OW cant even breath the same air as you.
Interesting exchange Dif ...
We did have plans to discuss some things last night once we both returned, things that needed to be discussed about upcoming living arrangements and securing transportation for my younger son. What the conversation really turned into, though, was a fishing expedition on her part - the now familiar "what do you know about OW" conversation. All I said was that it didn't matter what I knew or didn't know, if she were to hear anything directly from me, no good could come of it.
Then she started yelling: "OW couldn't sleep at all last night, she was pacing and racking her brain, trying to figure out what awful thing she could possibly have done that you know about!"
Poor OW, so concerned what the W of the family she destroyed might think about her, this is unfortunate. I recall in the heat of my W's A she had a similar tone, telling me OM was a "Good and decent man" my replay (By God's grace I always have been quick) was "Oh I am certain he is of the highest caliber chasing after a married woman while he himself is married ... but I am sure you will be different and he will be loyal to you, none of those girls he trains could possibly interest a man of his high caliber"
Dif ... Truth dart her on her chit ... seriously.
(I found this assertion strange: if my conscience were clear about my behavior, I certainly wouldn't let doubts about my behavior keep me up at night.)
"She even said, 'you know what, I'm going to confront Dif directly about this!'"
To which I simply could not resist responding - "OH NO, NOT HERE SHE WON'T! BUT IF SHE WANTS TO CONFRONT ME SOMEWHERE ELSE, TELL HER TO BRING IT ON! THOUGH IT DOESN'T MATTER - SHE NEVER WILL. SHE'S A COWARD."
"I have nothing to say to OW, she and her actions are beneath me."
Clearly, this just kept the heat on. Good job with the DBing, Dif.
Heat of the moment stuff ... pffft we all have been there, I had the epic melt down I refer to as 'Halloween-Backslide 2014' When I called her out on her A in between S's trick-or-treats. Don't even worry about it .. you lose your temper now n then when your W cheats .. you get a hall pass here.
Because then came all this familiar pap: "Have you ever considered that I might actually I love her? No one has ever made me feel this way. It's getting very serious between us, you have no idea. You are just being unreasonable about our breakup. You're just trying to make me leave her and come back to you. We are over, done, relationships don't work out all the time. You just need to accept this. I don't love you anymore."
Another chance here for a dart Dif, especially if she goes to this often .. something along the lines of "I am sure you are completely happy with her, you are right I have no idea how serious it must be. I do know this. I deserve better than this, after everything you and I have been through for it to happen this way, you having an affair, for you to disrespect me, our family and or M, yes ... I am certain I deserve better." Drop that and walk.
Start showing strength and taking a stance on right and wrong and calling that affair out for what it is.
This morning before work, I asked if we could talk again because I didn't want the bitterness of last night to linger. I told her that I was sorry for any harsh words, but that I find completely disrespectful her downplaying the significance of this event - this divorce, not a "breakup." She started to get mad at me again, but after conveying that only the most hardened heart would not be utterly devastated by what she's done, she seemed to back down and retreat. Her tone really did soften in response to a separation concession I requested. I sensed guilt. She suggested that later we take a ride in her "new" car. I ignored the suggestion.
And just now, she's up in her office, I'm downstairs. When I came in the door, she said, "Hon, is that you?" "You're done with work, hon?" "How was work today, hon?" All those terms of endearment that I'm supposed to stop using, her working overtime to not be so cold instead of working overtime to not be so warm, lest I "misinterpret her kindness as a sign of wanting to get back together."
I have my divorce support group tonight, grateful for that. And I think both my boys are off work - might ask if they want to grab an early dinner somewhere. Cali, I think the OW's daughter is in town, so odds are good my W will be sleeping here at home this week, and be around more often than she's been. A challenge and an opportunity, I guess. But on Sunday, I'm leaving here to spend a week with my friend in the next town over while her husband is away. I need the space, and WW needs to feel the absence.
And I know, I know... I need to focus on me. Prayers for her, actions for me.
So she feels guilt and up's the nicey nice approach knowing thats your button, how to get you off her back.
Dif .. again .. yeah detach, toss your truth darts and just let em stick. You are doing what you know is right in her heart ... even she is questioning it though would NEVER tell you right now because that would be admitting this whole A was a mistake.
Truth is no M can compete with the A, once the honeymoon phase is over and your W smells that OW does in fact not wake up perfect of with breathe that smells of elderberries ... then all the smoke and mirrors start showing true colors ... you just have to allow those seeds and the A to run its course .. stay out of the way it will die off without your help... more importantly it needs to
Dif, just read the letter from the predator. Yikes!! I am sure it is common that the OP is advised on how to deal with LBS. I can tell it in some of what my H says. It just does quite sound lthe way he would say it.
So, why would she give her your joint email account. She was obviously not going to try and hide it.
Definitely sounds like an affair down IMHO!!
Truth darts, I need more of these in my life. Stealing some of these to use on a rainy day, good chit.
"I recall in the heat of my W's A she had a similar tone, telling me OM was a "'Good and decent man'"
Cali, they very much care about being perceived as "good and decent," don't they? The night two weeks after BD when I called the OW from my W's phone (ummm... I had a bit of liquid courage and we had a huge fight that led to my faux pas), the OW just listened to me rage and kept saying in this meek little voice over and over, "I'm not a bad person. I'm not a bad person. I'm not a bad person."
Me thinks she doth protest too much...
Dif
Absolutely ... its a "you and I against the world" type approach .. and "we are so meant for each other .. look at how well this is going ... well ya know .. cept for the broken family and all that .. but besides all the lies and deceit I mean we are really meant ot be together ... well once you get D'd and move out that is"
Once your W wakes up and realizes the flaws ... Guess who shines like an angel, the lighthouse ... you have to gain strength before this .. trust me.
It all goes back to that one thing relationships need ... Foundation.... which is built on trust. Something ... like you I stumbled on early when I planted seeds. Right now they are on a high ... but when that fades then there is all that second guessing. They do not have that, and it can never be done now as the house has already been built ... in time it will crumble.
Diff,
Then she started yelling: "OW couldn't sleep at all last night, she was pacing and racking her brain, trying to figure out what awful thing she could possibly have done that you know about!"
Ka-Pow!!!! So you are in OW's head rent-free. Good!
evil smileTo which I simply could not resist responding - "OH NO, NOT HERE SHE WON'T! BUT IF SHE WANTS TO CONFRONT ME SOMEWHERE ELSE, TELL HER TO BRING IT ON! THOUGH IT DOESN'T MATTER - SHE NEVER WILL. SHE'S A COWARD."
Whooo-hoo!! Yeah, I do not have my DB Wonka hat on at the moment. Just from a raw perspective...yay! I like your fighting spirit, Diff.
"Have you ever considered that I might actually I love her? No one has ever made me feel this way. It's getting very serious between us, you have no idea. You are just being unreasonable about our breakup. You're just trying to make me leave her and come back to you. We are over, done, relationships don't work out all the time. You just need to accept this. I don't love you anymore."
I would have pulled the "loophole" script that Cali told his wife. That was GOLD. Cali, I am trying to remember that one post...in Heavy's thread?
I would have truth darted W here: Our break-up?! No, there was no "our" break up. It was all one-sided which was incredibly devastating and hurtful thing to do. Save that bullshit for some other dope...not me.[then I would have pulled out the Cali "loophole" script right here]
You're on so much of a higher level OW cant even breath the same air as you.
Thanks, Fogg. You made me smile.
Hugs,
Dif
I love the phrase "truth darts." I need to practice my delivery, for sure...
Thanks for the encouragement and virtual high fives, Wonka! It's been a tough day, so to read your posts and the others, combined with a good divorce support group tonight, I feel much better.
I would have truth darted W here: Our break-up?! No, there was no "our" break up. It was all one-sided which was incredibly devastating and hurtful thing to do. Save that bullshit for some other dope...not me.
I can say that I've been clear about this very point. But I haven't put it in a "truth darting" sort of way. I need to practice that, to be succinct and pointed and truthful, and just walk away.
Woke up this morning with her not being here, and it's probably the first time this has happened where I definitely prefer it this way. Till now, it's been a miserable crapshoot either way... feels empty when she's here, feels empty when she isn't. I actually had a good night's sleep for the first time in a long time. I credit the job for no other reason than it's got me out of the house and in a bit of a routine, as well as the great support at my group last night, and on this board. I needed it. My PMA was absolutely shot yesterday.
I sent W an email last night requesting that she leave the garage door opener here, since I'm pretty much the only one who needs it now - and also to request that she get back with me about a birthday dinner for my older son that we mentioned last week she might cook... one of his favorites, Albanian pizza.
I'm curious to hear her answer. His birthday is Saturday, but both boys work that night. Friday night they can do it, but kind of late - and I know this will conflict with OW plans. If she refuses, and I think there's a good chance she will, it's no big deal... the kids are kind of fed up with her anyway. But she was very much present for my younger son's birthday less than two months ago. She wouldn't want to come across as caring about one son's birthday and not the other's. So she's in a spot and has to decide either where her priorities lie, or, more likely, which decision doesn't make her look bad!
I may be continuing to work on detaching from her, and letting those planted seeds take root. But at least I know I'm truly detached from her answer and the outcome on this one issue. I guess that's a step in the right direction.
I would have truth darted W here: Our break-up?! No, there was no "our" break up. It was all one-sided which was incredibly devastating and hurtful thing to do. Save that bullshit for some other dope...not me.[then I would have pulled out the Cali "loophole" script right here]
Wonka ... was actually in Difs thread ...
Dif
I do relate .. and chuckle a bit about the constant "We broke up" you hear on the boards. Mine did the same, and its like its justified ... I broke up with you so I could PA the OP ... yeah .. thats all it takes, I truth darted mine one night as I openly admitted I had not known about this hidden loophole in a marriage, and looked forward to going out getting drunk and calling my next W up slurring "itsth over" just before I got naked and bed another woman. The look she gave me was a priceless one.
Dif
Hang in there ... its a long long haul and sometimes you just need to hop off the carousel and let it take a few laps without you.
It is funny to me how they worry about 'how things look' regardless of what they have done or are doing ... in time she will realize she F'd up .... just a matter of when and where you will be by then.
Okay Cali... got the opportunity to email a truth dart this morning in reference to how the W is distancing herself even from the kids. I know it's the OW who is encouraging her to reframe the language and ditch us all. And I wanted to make a point.
I emailed my W last night, as I mentioned, about our older son's birthday dinner this weekend. Made it clear the kids could only do something late on Friday, but if she didn't want to do it, just let me know. She wrote back...
"Regarding S20's birthday, I do have plans for Friday starting at around 7pm so I was thinking of cooking dinner (pizza) earlier and having a quick celebration. I want however to make sure that we do not give the impression that this is a 'happy family celebration' because that is not true. I am doing this out of respect for you and the fact that the boys do need to feel that they have some support."
I wrote back...
"Two things: one, you're right. We're not a happy family. We're a broken family - because you walked out on us. You can't make a commitment and call people your family, as recently as two months ago, and then just decide they aren't your family, no matter what anyone else says or encourages you to profess.
"Two, thanks for the offer on the pizza, but I don't think you read the email correctly. The boys work until 8, so although making pizza early works for you, it doesn't work for the guest of honor or his brother. We'll do something else."
I am not sure I've responded so succinctly to her nonsense before. Email is good - we can't fight, so my words sit there and linger longer.
She's not here this afternoon, won't be here tonight, I'm sure. Guess I was wrong that she'd be around more often this week, but I have no complaints, really. A friend is coming over to take me out to dinner. I appreciate how he looks after me.
Wow... before I went to dinner, I went to throw some things in the recycling bin. For the second time in a week, I found some of my books in there! She's been purging, and I forgave the first incident as simply a mistake... even though one of the books was my high school yearbook. But today? I was just livid, and had to call her...
She answered, clearly in the checkout lane of a grocery store. I said, "Look, this is the SECOND time I've found MY things in the trash. I'm about ready to dump the whole bin in the driveway to see what else of mine might be in there..."
"Don't do that!" she said. "I promise you, that's all that was in there. I was wondering if they were yours, but figured it didn't matter. Because they were hidden. And you'll never guess where..."
I really have NO IDEA how "hidden" things are fair game for the trash, but I knew exactly where these "gay themed" books were... in a storage footstool in our bedroom.
Why were they there?
Because a year and a half ago, I put every photo, book, document, etc. I could think of that might "give us away" as gay in that footstool when her "prone to snooping" (as she described him) brother, sister-in-law, and nieces - who are Albanian, have no idea my W is gay, and barely speak English, btw - just decided to visit for immigration purposes while my W was in Afghanistan, and I had to entertain them. For three weeks. With the language barriers, and their lack of understanding about our relationship.
Yes. I did all that. And she left me anyway.
And then... threw out my books.
Jeez - that is the worst. I am sorry to read that Diff.
It does sound like your W is not being kind at all. That must really sting. Good for you about your email about your S20's birthday.
Stay strong Diff
Heavy, I don't think she's being deliberately unkind. It isn't making sense. I really believe her head is so messed up right now that she's not thinking clearly.
About a month ago, while the boys were still living here, she came home (very late) one night, and manually bolted the front door before S20 got home from work. He had to ring the doorbell at nearly 1am in order for someone (me) to let him in. It was an innocent mistake... we don't have room for all the cars in our driveway, so he has to park elsewhere in the community, and she just didn't know he wasn't home.
But I sent her an email with housekeeping matters, among which was the request that she not bolt the door at night until she is sure that everyone is here. A few days later, she got home earlier and we were both doing things in the kitchen. At some point she bolted the door. I noticed and said, "Hey, I mentioned this the other day: PLEASE do not bolt the door till you know everyone is home... S20 is still at work." She said, "I'm sorry, I forgot." We both continue to putter around, she heads off to bed, and before I go to bed, I catch sight of the door - and she had bolted it AGAIN.
Now there would be no reason for her to be doing this... she's not spiteful, and why would she lock him out? She just really isn't thinking these days. As for the books, this is thoughtless for sure - but I don't think she's doing this sort of thing to hurt me. She's just completely self-absorbed.
It might not be intentional, but you never know. Sometimes I think they are just in such a constant state of being consumed with themselves and OW that they don't have the mental space to think about anything/anyone else. Like us LBS in the beginning, all we could think about was the WW, I believe its similar with them and OW. My W doesn't even have the patience for the kids much anymore even thought they were her life before, she still tries to make an effort to spend time with them but its a drop in the bucked compared to before BD.
Dif
I completely get your frustration ... we all get there. You have 2 options with it ... actually you have one, the other is beneath you. Use this to propel yourself to the next level, use is as I did to detach more. Your W is in LaLa land and doing her own thing obviously .... that email she sent with the line about wanting to be clear 'its not a happy family' ... well no Chit, no truth dart required there. Like you .. I would have been pissed and did the 'thanks but no thanks' on the pizza and gone about the Bday party that she honestly appears to have little interest for. HER CHOICE ... detach and distance yourself .. she continues to hurt you as you allow .... I read some time ago that when a human suffers, they must get to a point where they actually Change to not suffer any longer ... use this lesson to do that Dif.
Ok... I really think the true detachment counsel won't be able to be applied to its fullest extent until she moves out about a month from now... the problem is she is here, just enough, to make things crazy...
I came home from work and saw her car in the driveway... and I kept on driving. I knew she had picked my mom up from the airport this afternoon, an airport that is 5 minutes down the road, and my mom left her car at a neighbor's house... and I couldn't get her because of work, so my W did.
My mom is also my W's godmother... when my W was baptized at Easter this year. So my saintly mother took the opportunity to suggest they get some coffee and talk. According to my mom, they discussed the following:
Mom: We talked about her job and she told me things were improving....told her she seemed a little more relaxed.... Then I told her how worried I have been, cuz I know what stress can do...then told her about my "episode' (Mom had a stress related episode at work that led her to the hospital years ago). and that I did not want to bury another young member of the family. (referring to my brother who died 24 years ago at the age of 19 - and, clearly, referring to you as another "young" member of the family... you are loved...)
Mom: "Then I told her about my retreat and how I go every year... I told her that I thought she would really enjoy an Ignatius Retreat....very organized...would ba a great retreat for all new Catholics cause you come away with a plan for life.."
W said, " I really need to do that."
I asked... "did she say that? oh... I really wish she would actually do that..."
Mom said, "You bet I am going to follow up on it and find all the scheduled ones for the next year! I told her you would probably like it too. Then we laughed about being silent for three or four days."
I said, "Please do. I'd go with her, if she'd let me. AND be quiet. lol I'm telling you... if you only heard the things she's been saying to me. the 'bad influence' goes to the church of cheap grace, if I had to give it a name. she's very, very confused right now."
My mom said, "Since real estate is dead in Nov. and Dec., which she stated....I pray I can find one close enough then. Let's just keep praying....Mother Teresa will make it happen."
My W asked about my baby brother, who is in grad school. Mom said he'd be home in August and absolutely EXPECTED her to be at the family celebration.
My W also asked my mom why she went to Montana at all... Mom told her about her friend's breast cancer... "and that God sent me to see her. I know that got to her...I could see her swallow HARD."
See, my W has YET to begin to deal with her own mother's death, eight years ago.
From cancer.
My mom skyped this: "Honestly Dif, I had no idea what we would talk about...I just asked The Holy Spirit to put the words in my mouth." Seems like He did...
So, I saw her this afternoon. She agreed to get groceries for the house, engaged in other innocuous but pleasant niceties.
As she was getting ready to leave, she said, "I won't be home tonight, okay babe?"
(This kills me every time. W(hy)TF ask me if it's okay????)
But then she added, "Oh, I don't know, Maybe I will. There's a birthday party tonight, that's what's going on."
And she sounded... AGITATED.
I think the OW is completely booking her life, and she is beginning to show signs of wear. Subtle signs she'd never admit. But still...
She's remembering how sweet it was to sit in our lovely living room with a bottle of wine and a silly movie for just a couple of hours, and fall asleep in each other's arms on the sofa before 10pm. She is remembering how if I made plans for her, they were simple, and maybe a couple of times a month. Not every waking moment.
At least, this is what it looks like. Or maybe just what I'm hoping for.
"All lies and jest, still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest..." lie, lie, lie,lie...
So, I think things between my W and me are moving into a new phase - colder, and more distant. I'm feeling it from her in a new way, guessing that on the heels of the "what do you know about the OW that I don't know" debacle on Monday, the OW has told her she needs to avoid me and move toward minimal contact. I'd texted her probably ten times this past week - only about housekeeping details, not in any way related to our R. Typically, she'd always text back some kind of response, but she hasn't been texting me back at all.
She came by just a little bit ago to bring back some camping chairs I needed. "I brought the chairs, okay? See you." And out she went. First time she's ever been that kind of abrupt.
I have to keep reminding myself this is a long game, and I better get used to the distance for a while. This upcoming week will be a good start; I'm going to a friend's house the next town over and staying with her for a week to help with her daughter while her husband is out of town. I think I'll take the opportunity to make it a no contact week - if she's pulling back, I need to pull back more, right?
My W will probably come by the house and possibly notice I'm not staying here, but then again, maybe she won't. And maybe by now, she doesn't care.
My no contact week will coincide with a flurry of busy-ness for my W... on Wednesday, the OW closes on the homes she's bought and sold. W will be with her getting the new home ready and helping her move in. The next week, my W closes on her sketchy apartment, in which they'll be working on a bunch of renovations - between that and decluttering/moving things out of this house, she is going to be very busy and very focused on all these "house" matters - stuff she loves, and all of it very much intertwined with her relationship with the OW. Even if things are inevitably headed for disaster between the two of them, it's going to take a while. They are very excited about all this activity right now. I'm going to have to put my thoughts and energy elsewhere.
I'm still struggling with it, though. Sitting here this morning, I'm thinking about how much I miss our formerly easy companionship. For her to just breeze through and barely acknowledge me - I know I need to get out of her head, but I can't help wonder what's going on in there. How did I go from being the love of her life, the one she could hardly stand to be parted from, to a stranger she barely talks to?
It will be hard not to get a little sign here and there that she's conflicted and confused, because those have been the things that have kept me encouraged and moving forward - and, they've given me a false sense of control, in a way. It's scary to move into this next phase, to be so disconnected, and to give her to God.
To be honest, it feels like I'm giving up.
Different...see my posts on 4mykids last thread (pages 10/11).
I haven't posted on your thread because as I mention to her, the first 3 months are crazy making. We can tell you to detach, to get off her roller coaster ride, but that's very hard to do this early.
But it HAS to be done. Seriously. 90% of what you talk about is WAW or OW. 90% of how you measure progress is on how your WAW is treating you. You obsess over her every move, trying to figure out if she's coming out of a fog or not.
Time to realize YOU are in as deep of a fog as WAW. You are in a fog of dependence, neediness, putting your wellbeing in the hands of someone that you clearly shouldn't, and spending great deals of personal attention and energy on things you absolutely have no control over.
How can you expect WAW to let go of OW because she's destructive...when YOU can't let go of WAW for the same reasons?
You don't need to wait until she moves out either, that's just giving away your power and putting yourself in a jail.
Your last sentence: "It feels like I'm giving up". It SHOULD. You ARE giving up. Giving up on trying to control others and force the world around you to change.
Again, everyone goes through this the first 3 months. Maybe you're still not ready to let go yet. You need to bottom out maybe. The same way WAW would need to hit a rock bottom to let go of OW, maybe you need to bottom out to let go of WAW. My rock bottom was very clear...I spent three months going through all of this as well, only to discover some things that showed I was operating in an entirely different universe than WAW was and I realized I was being a total chump for thinking differently. Since then it's gotten easier.
After you make this shift you should be spending most of your time working on yourself, 180s, GAL, and building a new life for yourself, maybe attending to some personal issues that have made you this dependent. From this moment forward what WAW does is irrelevant. We get it. She's picked a destructive road that is away from you, you are hurt, betrayed, and lonely. Now deal with it, don't keep orbiting around her every action. That is the direction you need to take. And you can do it.
Thanks for taking the time to post, Zues. And you're exactly right... I haven't "bottomed out" yet. I see this, I know this, I know I'm putting my attention and focus where it shouldn't be. The pit in my gut is still too large. I'm still in disbelief. It's still not been three months. I use this forum to brain dumb, journal, process... and hope that in time, more of the posts will be about my own progress, and not so much about what's going on with her.
In fact, the way she's begun to distance herself, there might not be much to post in that department for a while, anyway.
I think what I'm hoping is that this upcoming week away from the house, and with a self-imposed moratorium on talking about her, with anyone (and I probably will avoid this board for the next week to aid with my detachment), will help me shift my focus to the future, and what I need to do for myself.
Which is a hell of a lot.
I think it's normal, necessary, and just fine to go through the process you need to go through. Whether that includes some fixation on WAS, or to feel like you're stuck in a rut sometimes.
It's just nice to have a map. You know you'll go through this for a while, then you'll bottom out for a bit, then you'll start letting go of WAS, your feelings will turn more towards resentment and anger for what she's done as you feel 'free' of her, and eventually you'll be tired of it overpowering your life and you'll start to feel done with letting it dictate much of your head space at all.
The benefit of a map isn't that you can hurry up the progress. You can't. There are no shortcuts with growth and grieving. The benefit of a map is that you don't let any of these stages define you, lead you to make lifelong decisions out of emotion, or that you don't let them divert you from your long term objective: To be the best you possible, to lead from character, to stand for your M while it makes sense to do so, and to be strong enough to stand for you if there comes a time when it doesn't.
So don't mistake my post for chiding you for having emotions. Just make sure you have a mission statement somewhere with those overall goals etched in, and spend some time reflecting or meditating on it so you stay grounded through the turmoil. Like a mountain, storms can rage all around but you will be still and solid through it all, unmoved by the crashing waves and lightning.
Zues, this is excellent counsel. I think part of what's fueling my depression and obsession is that we were building a life and a business together, and I let my identity become very much bound up in what "we" were doing and becoming. It's not just the relationship I'm losing. I'm losing my house - also something many on this board can relate to. But also the work thing... suddenly, everything I worked on, personally and professionally, has come crashing down. I'm struggling now to figure out that piece - who am I? what am I going to become? - as well as everything else. Now, if and when I do that, it will be a testament to personal resilience and strength. But for now? I just see shattered pieces of my life everywhere, with no end in sight soon.
You know, I lost my brother when he was 19 in a car crash, and I wrote a very well received book about it. I know about loss, grieving, the stages and all those things. I came through that, and I'll come through this. But right now, I'm IN it. And it [censored].
Good news is, I'm with my saintly mom tonight, enjoying some wine and salad on the porch. It's a haven of peace here, and I will make the most of it. Thanks again, Zues.
You can do this Dif!!! I know you can and am rooting for you!
Zeus - excellent posts - I learned from them too. What a process this is - just wow. So draining but so necessary in order to reach wholeness!
Thanks for your support, Heavy. You know I'm rooting for you, too.
At my mom's this morning, enjoying peaceful coffee on the back porch. Had the chance last night to tell her everything that's going on, and I can see her heart is broken... for my pain, and for my W, who is her goddaughter. She said, and I think this is true, that if W and I get some space and distance from each other, then my mom will be able to take up a more proactive role as her godmother - encouraging her in her faith, without my involvement at all. W respects my mom greatly, and perhaps this, combined with all our prayers, will help eventually soften her heart and lead her back to her faith. My saintly mother is insistent that God won't fail her, and she'll come back. True or not, it's nice to hear.
In any case, unless some crazy new development pops up this week, I'm taking a break from my W (seeing her, talking to her, thinking about her even - except in my prayers) and from this board. Kind of a "cold turkey" sort of detachment process as I spend this week at my friend's house. It's true that too much of my energy has been going toward trying to figure her out, looking for signs of hope, etc. But as Cali has put it, I've planted good seeds, and now, I just need to step back and let them grow, while focusing on myself and where I'm headed in my own life. I hope to come back here with a better perspective, a strong PMA, and a workable plan - and so that I can also be a better support to everyone else here.
Have a good week folks... you are all in my thoughts and prayers.
Hi DifRent,
I wish you well and we'll hear from you when you return.
*Hugs*
Bob
One more post... guess what. Got back to the house, and I saw EVEN MORE of my things in the trash! I did what I had threatened to do earlier in the week, which was spill the contents of both the trash and recycling bins in the garage - and good thing I did, because even more of my things were buried.
So I called her, AGAIN, not in anger - but to let her know that she might want to come home before the trash runs on Tuesday, because I am not cleaning up the mess, and she'll want to be sure that trash goes out. And it's really strange: at first she tries to defend herself, has a sharp tone to her voice ("You're just making a big thing out of nothing so you can call me..." "actually, no... I was planning on doing my best not to talk to you at all this week... but then, THIS!"), and then... after I make it clear this is disappointing and disrespectful, her tone softens into something that I remember as genuine remorse. I don't know what that's all about, but I wished her a good week, hung up, and headed out to my friend's for the week.
Okay, going now. Wishing you all a GREAT week!
Ugh!
What's up with W throwing out YOUR stuff in the trash??!! This is the THIRD time she's done this in a such short amount of time.
Maybe you might want to set up two secret cameras: one by the trash area and one in the common area. That way you can see what exactly W is doing in rifling through your stuff and tossing them aside.
WTF is going on here?
P.S. You might want put up neon pink post-it notes on your stuff with a Sharpie saying "DO NOT THROW IN TRASH!" She might get the message to leave your stuff alone.
Wonka, I wish I knew what was going on. But I really don't think she's doing this on purpose. It makes no sense. She's been and done a lot of things since May, much of it thoughtless and selfish, but none of it vindictive. If this is some kind of passive-aggressive or unconscious sort of hostility, it still doesn't make sense. I'm really baffled by it... which is why I actually wasn't angry, but certainly disappointed and hurt.
I think by leaving all the trash strewn about the garage floor and requiring her to do even more work in cleaning it up before moving out, she should get the message. It will be another week before the trash is taken up again, so she knows I will keep checking, and will likely assume I won't hesitate to dump the trash again if I find more thoughtlessness in there. I will not be there this week, so it's not at all my monkey or my circus.
Off to bed, and REALLY off the boards for now! Thanks, friends.
Okay... I'm back... but it's because I am hoping for some guidance from the group...
I've been away from the house since Sunday afternoon, when the above incident happened. As I hung up I said, "Have a good week," insinuating there'd be no more contact this week.
Apparently, my W stayed at the house last night instead of with the OW. She called my cell while I was at work about four hours ago and left the following message:
"Hi, it's me.. I'm just calling to check in, see how you're doing, how your new job is going. I didn't see you last night at the house, so I'm wondering if everything is alright. Give me a call, thanks, bye."
So... what's up with that, do you think?
I do not want to give her a call. But it's not like me not to respond somehow. What's the best DB action? Should I text? And text what? I'm thinking, "Thanks for checking, all is well. Hope you're having a good week."
Thanks for any input... I am posting and asking and then going back to not thinking about her again until I check later for hopefully some responses. It's been good for me to do that. I'm definitely feeling a deeper level of sadness with no contact, but I think it's a sadness I need to go through and emerge stronger on the other side...
I do not want to give her a call. But it's not like me not to respond somehow. What's the best DB action? Should I text? And text what? I'm thinking, "Thanks for checking, all is well. Hope you're having a good week."
I think you nailed it Dif. Do what your gut says. It's polite, answers her question and doesn't give her anything else to work with.
I say go with it. That being said, check and see what some of the pros tell you.
Big hug,
PP
Apparently, my W stayed at the house last night instead of with the OW. She called my cell while I was at work about four hours ago and left the following message:
"Hi, it's me.. I'm just calling to check in, see how you're doing, how your new job is going. I didn't see you last night at the house, so I'm wondering if everything is alright. Give me a call, thanks, bye."
So... what's up with that, do you think? TEMP CHECKING
I do not want to give her a call. But it's not like me not to respond somehow. What's the best DB action? Should I text? And text what? I'm thinking, "Thanks for checking, all is well. Hope you're having a good week." PURRFECTO!
Done... thanks Wonka and Pigpen! Off here again... hugs, enjoy your weeks!
Done... thanks Wonka and Pigpen! Off here again... hugs, enjoy your weeks!
Riiight...whatever you say, m'dear.
Haha Wonka... well, I didn't want to do anything in response to her temp checking without your expert advice.
This week has been good in a lot of ways - feeling the distance and the separation from my W is probably necessary. My friend is very dear to me, but I'm struggling with being here in the midst of her happy family. She has a sweet six year old daughter (who loves and misses my W) who sleeps with my friend while her husband (an incredibly good man) is away. It makes me long for the days my kids were young and sweet like that, my kids who moved out just a month ago and are happy to be on their own. I miss their presence in my home and their more constant presence in my life.
The job I have right now has me working with high school seniors and their parents. The parents and their weepy incredulity at how fast it all goes takes me back to a year ago at this time when my younger son was entering his senior year, and how relieved we all were that my W had just left her Afghanistan post, and I was getting ready to board a plane and meet her in Albania for a month where we were going to plan the next exciting phase of our lives back home together. It was an amazing and wonderful, happy, relieved time in my life.
This week, I can't help wishing I could just press rewind, take nothing for granted, and do just enough things differently when we returned home for us to be in a good place now, instead of this mess. I really miss having a family, and our family life. I feel very alone this week, even while being in the midst of my good friend and her family - maybe even moreso because I'm here. But I need to start adjusting to my new normal, no matter how much I would prefer not to.
Thanks, just wanted to get that out. I know I keep saying I'm going off the board, but I might be back.
Hi Diff
I can echo your sentiments about pressing the rewind button.
I want my family back, I want my W back and my old life.
However, until/if they return to their common sense, we will carry on ....RIGHT! They will find out their AP are just fantasy and we are getting stronger every day. If they realize what a dumba## they have been, good for us and we are in the power seat. If they don't, we still are in the power seat because we have done the work of self reflection, mirror work, GAL, and just evolved to be better persons. Belive it becuase it is true.
Off to work now - putting in a lot of hours to get back up to speed. I was pretty much a basket case the first 3 months, and my work suffered a little. I am now making that up in spades and am being super productive which in turn makes me feel better and more in control of my destiny.
Take it day by day Diff.
Hold on and do keep posting. I really enjoy reading your posts.
Heavy
Yes, forgive me, Wonka... I'm back.
But hey... WW doesn't quite seem to know what to do with my no contact week.... even though I announced to her on Sunday that I didn't want to talk to her this week.
Maybe it's not "pure" no contact, though. I did text her on Tuesday in response to her voicemail, and got Wonka's (and Pigpen's) blessing for my minimalist response. Left things alone for a day.
This morning, she posted some photos on Facebook regarding the real estate business, and all the closings she had lined up yesterday. I knew it was a big day for her, even though part of it had to do with the OW's listing and new purchase. I decided to be a good sport and commented: "W is the hardest working woman in real estate. Proud of you."
She "liked" and commented back, "Thanks, Dif."
Thought little of it, went to work, hung out with some friends.
Then tonight... I missed a call... she left a voicemail...
"Hey, um... it's me, I'm just... checking in, just wanted to talk to you... I should be here from... I don't know... you can call me back or... whatever... just wanted to check in, and see how you're doing, how's the job going, all of that... thanks..."
Temp checking, yeah, I know. I get it. But how should I respond? Or should I respond? Would it be a bad idea to suggest she meet me somewhere I already plan to be on Sunday afternoon, so we can catch up? Other people will be around, so there might be some safety in those numbers... but maybe I should just be completely detached. Would love some group feedback.
Been GALing like crazy this week. Not sure I love my current job, but I do like the people and the company... thinking and hoping there might be some opportunity that I might enjoy more for me down the road with these folks.
In any case, had the BEST night last night with my boys and my friends. Tonight, a good long conversation with my best friend about what the future might look like for me with or without my W (oh, and some EVEN EARLIER emails I discovered in our account from the predator... but will save those for a later day... they have no impact on my PMA, but are absolutely affirming for me regarding her predatory intentions from day one... damn... I'm going to write a book. I am a writer, you know. If it turns out I'm worthy, will you all give me good reviews on Amazon???
Anyway, while I'm not doing the best job of staying away from the board, I really do feel like this has been the best week yet in terms of detachment from the W. AND... she has reached out to me twice completely out of the blue perhaps on account of it. Not that such is my intention, the detachment is important regardless, and I feel and know that. But the voicemails have been interesting "byproducts." And I know on this board, that's the kind of result people want to hear.
I'm off again for the week... until I'm not... right, Wonka?
Diff
I can tell how hard this is for you from your post and I am very sorry you are dealing with this. Believe me, I know how much it blows.
The good news is that you have a job! You are meeting new people though your job which is also really good.
Personally I would not respond to the voice mail. I would go dark. But then, that's just my opinion. I struggle still on whether or not to return texts or messages. I do not check Facebook and don't comment on anything she writes. It's just too painful for me. I went cold turkey and blocked her, which of course made her mad. Oh well.
You keep posting on this Board, you have a lot of support here and have many many friends rooting for you. OK?! You can do this.
Heavy
Hey Heavy... thanks for chiming in and all your support. I'm going dark at the moment in lieu of any better idea. I only did the FB thing because my coach said to affirm her and support her when I could. Interesting that I did, and then hours later, a VM out of the blue. Which for now, I am ignoring.
I know I have a lot of friends rooting for me and supporting me here, and you're in the front row. REALLY means a lot to me. Thanks for being such a good friend... wish I could buy you a drink.
I agree with Heavy here.
Her call/VM seems to be in response to you and your FB post ... nothing sounded urgent, she was just callin in to 'temp' check on you... did not sound urgent and you are just so darn busy with that new life of yours it slipped your mind. She did say "You can call me back or whatever" ... you can feel free to choose whatever here, allow her to pursue you a bit here as those seeds continue to grow.
Dif .. you are the better option ... keep at it.
Hey Cali... I am the better option. I am. I know. Thank you for reminding me.
She called me twice today while I was at work and couldn't take the calls anyway... once in the morning, once in the afternoon. So interesting... last week, she ignored my texts. This week, I'm ignoring her calls. She was at the house today working in our office and probably is wondering why I've not been around - it's clear I haven't if she sees the sheets haven't been put on my (our) bed, the wine she bought last week hasn't been touched, the Vitamix is missing... she left no messages today, but I think she was alone, curious, and I don't know... are the seeds growing? Was she missing my being there like I used to be?
I'm really wondering how things will be once she moves out in a few weeks. Will she miss me? Call me? Care at all?
The thing is... it's not like me not to respond to texts or calls - does it seem like I'm game playing or employing some kind of strategy if I don't respond? Or that I'm too pissed to talk to her? Or what? I am happy to let her pursue, but I also don't want to go too far in the other direction. Would love for her to ruminate all weekend (during which she all kinds of amazing and fun plans), but I don't want to make matters worse. Thinking of texting that I'm super busy tomorrow, maybe we can catch up later.
As for me, I'm moving in the right direction... I think. I did find some more emails this week - absolutely by accident when looking for something else! And boy, they paint the perfect picture of a predator. (I'll share them next week.) I know I'm not supposed to be dwelling on her, but again, if I understand how all this began in the first place, it actually helps with my PMA. I can clearly see how this woman planted her own tainted seeds, and while it's tragic that my W fell for it, the story she tells about us is just a myth.
Enjoying my last night here at my friend's house with a gin and tonic and some mindless television. No real GAL plans this weekend, so I need to come up with some. But wondering if anyone has any thoughts about responding to her one way or another?
Hope you're all doing well!
Hi Diff
It seems to me like you are doing pretty well. You will get different opinions about what to do about answering phone calls, voice messages, etc....
Personally, I don't reply unless they are about the kids. If I do reply, it's only business and I don't ask about anything.
I mean, what else is there to talk about? She fired you, took off with the OW. I mean that's all there is...
Let her wonder and ponder where you are and what you are doing. Let her experience her stupid decisions and the ramifications of them. It's her loss.
You are the BETTER WOMAN. Let your wife realize on her own how much she has mucked up her life and how you are not around to take her crumbs anymore. Work on improving you and getting a life without her. In my opinion, that is the only chance any of us have.
The classic mistake that LBS make is "if I go too dark, they will really stop the pursuit." Heck we all think that way. Sometimes doing nothing is the best answer.
But as always, my caveat is - it's only my opinion.... do what feels best for you and one that allows you to continue to move forward and onward.
I wish you could buy me that drink!!!
Dif
Respond if it is best for you, don't if it's not. Do what is best for you and not to have an affect on WW.
Admin always needs a basic response.
I think you are doing pretty well considering the scuzzy OP.
V
The classic mistake that LBS make is "if I go too dark, they will really stop the pursuit." Heck we all think that way. Sometimes doing nothing is the best answer.
Yeah Heavy... and I keep wondering that, too. Might be true, but again, my DB coach doesn't believe that going dark is the answer as long as we are tethered and technically in the same house.
So I feel like I need to at least acknowledge her. And I did, with a text that said work has been crazy, I'm busy this weekend, maybe we can connect on Sunday... but if not, it will be a while before I'm available. No response yet, but the fact is... I'm detached from the outcome of this text. No expectations. If she responds, fine. If not, fine. Not expecting her to. Don't like who she is right now anyway, so... it's a phantom woman I love and want to hear from. Such long odds all over the place.
As far as the kids are concerned... it's funny. She LOVED them, really... still does somewhere deep inside, I'm sure. Had some concerns and criticisms over the past few years, of course. But last year, she was in Afghanistan for her 40th birthday. I was bummed about this, as I had plans to throw her a big party that day with friends from all around the world. It wasn't to be, so instead, I asked all those friends to write her letters, and that was to be my gift to her. So many beautiful letters... and this one, from my younger son, almost 17 at the time, was perhaps my favorite:
"Dear E,
"Over the first 12 years of my life, I saw my mom go through some bad relationships. Not a lot, but the one with my dad was really rough. And then two women who would take advantage of her, take her money, treat her like crap, and play with her heart. Those relationships didn't affect us much other than the fact that our mom was obviously hurt, but one verbally abused us. I got to dreading any new relationship my mother would find herself in.
"This trend, of course, ended once you showed up. Not only have you taken care of my mom, but you have also taken care of S20 and me and treated us as if we were your own kids no questions asked. Ever since we’ve met you, you have been here for us, taken care of us, and loved us unconditionally (you even tried to teach me boxing, however short-lived that may have been).
"All I ask for is to have someone that will love and take care of my mother, but you go above and beyond. And for that, I love you with all my heart and hope you can return from Afghanistan as soon as possible.
"Love,
S18
My mom reminded me of this letter last week. When I read it again, it brought me to tears.
Sigh.
Anyway... I have already made peace with the fact that my W has a lot of things going on with her new apartment and the OW's new house this and next month. A lot of busyness, and lot of "happiness." This will go on for quite some time. I fear, as you imply, Heavy, that the more I back off, and the more she gets enmeshed in all this, the worse my chances are for ever getting to the point of reconciliation. I know I need to stay the course and become a better version of the woman she left who, frankly, wasn't so bad to begin with. But can I compete? She is becoming so entangled with this woman now. Every day I feel like I'm losing that battle, even as I fight to just become a better me.
Wish I could buy you that drink too, Heavy. I think we'd be good friends.
Diff - if ever on West Coast, I will buy you a drink!
Ah... your location must not be Rhode Island then? I'm in North Carolina, but I have family in California. One of these days...
So, after taking a week "off" from the boards (ha, I know I've popped in here and there), I'm back. Wanted to share some new/old things.
Whilst looking for something else entirely in the joint business account related to a property we own, I stumbled upon two even earlier emails the OW had sent to my W - and wow. If I thought she was a predator before, now I see how she cleared the path - and how she did so even after my W had told her (it seems in good and warm terms) how she and I fell in love.
Any of you who've had your partners poached, perhaps you haven't had such a black and white, up close glimpse as to how the OP did it, but there might be common themes here. You all tell me if this email, replete with its seventh grade angst and camping trip drama, isn't the most agenda-laden inappropriate thing to send to someone in a committed lifelong relationship whom you have just hired as your realtor and "befriended" all of three weeks prior...
_________________________________________________________
I’m a believer in total honesty, even and especially when it is hard! When I find myself withholding something or avoiding a conversation, I now know that the need to have the hard conversation won’t magically go away – and the longer I wait, the harder it gets.
So… about the camping this weekend.
I have been so excited about meeting you and our instant connection and friendship. You bring out the parts of me that help me feel good about myself. The minute I saw you, I was drawn to get to know you. You fill a room, E, in a good way. Your amazing story combined with your incredible power are magnetic. I seldom meet someone with such unlimited potential and who will undoubtedly continue to lead an amazing and interesting life.
So any opportunity to get to know you better, I blurt out with excitement! And in our travels ALL over Raleigh, I’ve heard about how Dif and you met and fell in love, so I want to get to know her as well! She must be special to have attracted you!
I haven’t been to this camping event before, but have no doubt it will be an incredible experience and I look forward to sharing much of it with you – and whatever parts with Dif that she can also participate in. There is also another element about camping this weekend I want to be straight up honest about. It will reveal my less secure side.
These women that I am camping with this weekend are women that I have admired for years. I’ve heard about their annual weekend of dancing, camping and dare I say drinking for a few years now and always longed to be invited. This year I got up the courage to ask my closest friend in that group, K, if I could come. I now get the sense that I haven’t been asked in the past because they assumed L would also want to come and she can be a bit much at times. She doesn’t have the best boundaries. So I asked K and had her ask the other women if I could join and got yes!
In my excitement about meeting you and wanting to share neat experiences with you, I invited you and Dif to not only come to this event, but also camp with me. Even though the tent is mine and there is space, it wasn’t my place to invite anyone to join a group I myself am just a newcomer too. I’ve been torn with struggle about what to do about this ever since!!! I WANT to camp with you and know we will be great camping buddies, but my first year joining these ladies on their established camping ritual is not the right time to invite you. I was out of line doing that and am sorry I did that, creating this very awkward situation.
Would you be terribly upset to bring your own tent and camp separately? I will help you find a spot and setup, hopefully nearby! If you have the tent, I have absolutely everything else you need to camp: sleeping bag, sleeping pad, lantern, cookstove, food… I don’t anticipate ANY of us will spend much time at campsites, and instead all be together in the milieu of families enjoying music on the different stages. I know they will love you!! But the invitation to join their campsite really belongs to them, not me.
I feel I have really disappointed you and am very sorry!! These are welcoming and very accomplished women and you will love them. I am the one who screwed up here. I strongly considered not camping with them, but that too feels rude. These are wonderful women and I don’t want to alienate them either. I decided it was best to honor my first commitment and just confess my screw up to you.
We can talk tonight (at the "inspirational video club" she hosted at her house), but I felt more comfortable writing you first. You will find that with difficult conversations, I can become a deer in headlights – struggling to find my words and anxious. So writing seemed the right thing to do.
I’m still excited about spending the weekend enjoying the music every day with you!!
OW
_________________________________________________________
Have to give it to the OW... she's a master. And with the next email, sent the very next day, she really steps up her game...
The W and I were at the OW's house the night that first email was sent for her "inspirational video club." (Wasn't very inspiring, I have to say.) I had dropped my W off early as I had a board meeting to attend, and I came back a little later. I guess while I was gone, they talked about... things. Now that I think about it, my W did seem a bit distracted on the drive home.
So the next morning, this email hit the inbox:
________________________________________________
We were meant to meet! No matter what does or doesn’t happen in the future, I feel like we have triggered positive things in each other. Only you can say what those positive things are for you, but from where I sit, you are asking yourself important questions that maybe weren’t consciously weighing on you as much as they are now. (I love how she says "only you can say what those 'positive' things are," then tells her what those things are.)
I know it is confusing and definitely throwing you off your confident feet, but this is good! You are at a crossroads and you can’t go backward. The future will be different now…either a renewed relationship with Dif or letting that go. Either way, awesome E is asking E more fervently what awesome life she wants going forward: what to let go of, what to change and what to add.
For me? I feel rejuvenated! I have been coming out of a valley of darkness and more consciously creating my new life – not defined by my role as Mother, partner, caregiver, breadwinner. I was already feeling good about the changes I was making and the people I was attracting into my life, but NOW, I feel energized to step up my game! I am capable of more! I was starting to grow older instead of grow younger, and I believe it is a choice! And that someone as wonderful as you shows any interest in me makes me believe anything is possible!
So here is what I think. We each are feeling tapped on the shoulder by the universe to wake up and even more consciously create our lives. Your focus may be related to your life with Dif and the boys. My focus is to get healthier so I can experience new people, places and adventures…and find a new home. So individually, we each have a focus that was maybe spotlighted by meeting each other, but actually isn’t about the other. Make any decisions about Dif without me in a possible future relationship. And I need to get healthier with dreams of adventures without your sharing them with me the reason I am getting healthier.
There is no time frame, E.
If we never meet again, you have already blessed me!
If we become dear friends, my life will be richer.
If we become lovers at some point, it will be rooted in a love that has been patient and kind.
And so, thank you for your courage last night! We both know each other’s feelings, but the present moment is about friendship. I am able to focus on that and not let things be awkward. I hope you are too!
We rock as women! Get ready for a fun weekend painting my deck!
OW
_____________________________________________________
("No time frame, take your time... well, a few weeks, maybe. We'll talk again after the camping trip...") Lord have mercy...
OW didn't really do anything wrong or inappropriate...once you accept the premise that M's can be dissolved when they are inconvenient, that feelings and selfishness are a good compass to steer your life by, and that family can be redefined arbitrarily and everyone is resilient.
This is what grows in a garden with no foundation of commitment, character, and without putting God ahead of personal selfishness.
Yes, Dif, I'm not surprised, I'm not even angered, but it's painful to see people choose to deface the purity of a real committed relationship.
The hard part is that it doesn't always come around. This isn't a Disney movie. You keep thinking you're the 'good guy' and that because of that you'll win in the end. Look- life isn't fair. The reality is that you may never R. WW and OW may end up together...and they may even both learn from this experience and end up having a good relationship. They both might grow and change and mature, but only a few years too late for you to save your M. And there might not be a hell they burn in because of their sins or lack of faith.
So, putting aside what they're doing for a minute- can you accept that reality? I think before you can detach and start moving forward you have to, because it still seems to me you are waiting around for WW. As I've said...you can't expect her to have the strength to let go of OW if you can't muster the strength to let go of WW.
Diff, I agree with what Zues said. But also, I ask myself whether it is helping you move forward reading all of this stuff? How is closely monitoring communications between them helping you? I don't think it is, and I would love to see you let go of looking at what they write to each other and move forward yourself. I think that would be a healthier approach and may help you better detach.
Yes, I guess we can all sit on the sidelines and comment about what they say to each other. And perhaps that may help you feel better, but I agree with Zues - if that keeps you stick as the 'good guy' and they the 'bad' - it isn't helping you grow IMHO.
I would also question the wisdom of posting exactly what has been written, given recent developments with Matt and his W. My advice would be to always paraphrase. I truly don't mean to post anything hurtful and I hop this doesn't come across in that way. But I hope you will decide to do the healthiest thing for you in these difficult circumstances.
Take care Diff :-)
Barf on the emails. Nauseating and juvenile for sure.
However, just delete them and keep moving forward. You already know what you need to know. By keep reading them, it will only bring you down. Really, I know this from personal experience.
They are not worthy of your time to read them. Delete it for the garbage it is. You are better than what is being served up here. Don't give it any more head space. I know it is hard.
Move on to a better place.
Onward Diff!
Zues and Toots... thanks for your thoughts and your support, as always. I think I really just posted these emails because it's part of my story - like a flashback that provides even more context. I've only seen a handful of emails - and I find them enlightening more than disturbing. Had I seen them two months ago? They'd have ripped me apart. W and OW are together all the time now, so I'm sure there's no need for them to email each other much.
At the same time, it might seem from what I post on this board that I'm waiting around, but I'm really not. It's just that this board serves two purposes for me: one, it's where I can vent. I've decided that in my real life, I'm done talking about all this. This past week I was detached from the situation and from her more than ever, even as she called and pursued. And two: this is where I keep hope alive. In my real world, no one thinks R is possible, and I struggle more to imagine R as a possibility than I do to accept it's likely not going to happen.
I've not only accepted that my W might well move on and make a whole new life with the OW, but that's exactly what she's doing at the moment. I hate it, but I can't deny it. I don't see the OW as a "bad guy" or someone who deserves hell. I see her for what she is: a lonely relationship poacher who took advantage of my W, and I am so disappointed in my W who let herself be swayed so easily. I see myself as terribly wronged but also as someone who clearly should have done more to make our relationship impervious to poaching. I didn't, and I regret that. And I know I have a lot of work to do on myself ahead.
Have I let WW go? No. I can't say I completely have. I'm not even three months into this mess. I know I have to, and I know I will. But for now, letting her go is a process, not an action. I'm moving through it... with the help of all of you. Really, these emails weren't a setback. It actually helps me to confirm what I've believed all along.
As for WW discovering this? Well... I know what happened to Matt was terrible. But I can't see any discovery of this board being the thing that derails any potential R. At this point, it's a long shot anyway. I kind of don't care if she finds this. That's a form of detachment, eh?
Thanks Heavy... I haven't been re-reading them. They are certainly juvenile nonsense, but also like I said up there, enlightening as to exactly when and how things began. Not really disturbing me. I'm actually glad I know now.
I really detached from my WW more this week than ever, which was painful but also good... long stretches where I was busy and didn't think about her. I wasn't home, so there could be no surprises with her showing up and potential arguments. I had the distraction of my good friend and her daughter, had a great dinner with the boys and another friend one night. And during this week - where in the beginning I even announced to her that I wanted to go a whole week without talking - she called me four times and left me two messages wanting to talk. So... she doesn't want me, but she doesn't want me detached.
In "real life," I have let my planted seeds grow - letting them be watered by time, distance, and prayer. I want her back, of course. But mostly, I want God's best for her. And that's been my prayer lately.
DIff
That sounds good. I will try to pray that for my w as well - Gods plan.
That's all we can really do. My w and kids are back east so I have the whole week stretched out in front of me. Going to see a play tonight with a friend about Janis Joplin - which I have been wanting to see. Getting laundry done - and just digging out from being away. I will meet a friend tomorrow for brunch so I too am keeping up the staying busy front.
Keep on keeping on Diff. Always remember you are the prize which you are.
Another thought I wanted to mention - for me it was helpful to not participate in the drama anymore. Drama kept everything going, kept emotions high, just was not good you know? I felt like I was being used a a bit player in their play and definitely showed I was not detached.
When I stopped doing that I began to feel stronger and more in control. I am not a bit player is their sordid play. I don't play their game, I stopped. For me it was a good decision and I only wish I could have done it sooner.
Anyway, just throught of that and wanted to put it out there.
Best - Heavy
Yes Heavy... a big reason why I went to stay with my friend this week. It was easier to stay out of the circus that way. Gave me some space and distance. I think the next time I see her, we'll be more pleasant or at least civil to each other.
I'm headed out to meet some friends at a new beer place in town... over 300 taps, they say! Should be fun - it will be the first night, too, that I go out without my wedding ring. Just giving it a try, the being single thing... feels very strange, but it might help with the detachment. We'll see.
Taking my ring off was hard. I still have the indentations on my finger from where it sat for 20 years. My ring was nothing special, just a band with some small diamonds on the outside. I think it was called an eternity band. We had talked about getting new ones for our 20th anniverssary.
When our kids were born, I got the Mommy necklace with their names, birthdates and gemstone. I wear them around my neck and never take it off. My kids love to see me wear the charms and comment on them always. I always say, see I have you right next to my heart every day.
My W never did that. Never got a mothers ring, a necklace, nothing. I think I mentioned earlier too when she lost her wedding rings, I flipped out an turned the house upside down to locate them. W could not have cared less.
Looking back, I can now see all of this for what is really was. She just was't into any of this, marriage, family, minivan, none of it. She has told me so "Look the marriage was just better for you than it was for me".
I feel sorry for her now, she never really "got it" what it meant to be married, and to raise a family. She just didn't. Maybe she thought she did at one point, but now she doesn't. Does that make her a bad person, no, but just someone who I thought I knew. I never really did truly know her it appears.
I guess we never really know who people are.
As for getting to a civil and pleasant place, good for you. I know you can do it. For me, meh.
Are you on FB or Pinterist or twitter?
Diff
I would agree with the others about continuing to read those emails. OW did get in W's head but it was still W's choice to pursue her. I do the same and focus on OM (just a week or so ago, lol) it just causes me to ruminate on them. Even if I learn a little about how much of a POS OM is, how does that really help me? It just keeps me attached and stops me from moving forward with my own issues and life.
Its great you got some time away and were able to have some fun. You are right about detaching and letting go, its a process that takes time and we can either delay that significantly or allow it to progress at its own natural rate. Time will get us through this, keep being awesome and you will be fine
Another thought I wanted to mention - for me it was helpful to not participate in the drama anymore. Drama kept everything going, kept emotions high, just was not good you know? I felt like I was being used a a bit player in their play and definitely showed I was not detached.
When I stopped doing that I began to feel stronger and more in control. I am not a bit player is their sordid play. I don't play their game, I stopped. For me it was a good decision and I only wish I could have done it sooner.
Anyway, just throught of that and wanted to put it out there.
Best - Heavy
This. So incredibly much this. I've found that all there is to do is just back away and stop being the unifying force binding them together. Let them live their lives.
I'm wondering if that's the case with my W too, Heavy. She wanted the marriage and the family - many times said she was glad to have finally settled down after all those years living abroad alone, joked that she didn't have to have kids herself because I already had them for her. But now, she's so completely distancing herself from any kind of family life. I don't know if this is a temporary condition on account of the affair, or if this really is the new her. Time will tell.
I'm on FB, Twitter, and Pinterest, yes. Are you?
Thanks Fogg. Time is the only healer. I would say there is one way that learning more about the OW helps me: it reminds me that I'm the better option. My W doesn't see that and likely never will, and truthfully, there are days I can't see it, either. On the surface, she sure does look like much more fun right now. But really... these emails do not bother me. They just put things in context and actually helps me make sense of things. I'm not re-reading them or looking for new things to read. The good thing as far as healing and moving forward is that she is mostly out of the house and all their business takes place out of my view. I haven't seen WW in over a week, which is the longest I've not seen her since she was working overseas. It's progress. Painful progress, but progress.
Journaling - the first time I've seen her in over a week:
Went to brunch this morning with a friend and pulled up afterward to see W's car in the driveway. (How can it be that something that once filled your heart with joy can now fill it with dread?) Hadn't seen her in over a week, so I steeled myself to be as friendly as possible.
Looking painfully thin, she gave me a hug, poured an uncommonly early glass of red wine for herself (from a bottle that's been open for a week, so it must have been more like vinegar), and asked where I'd been since my car was in the garage. Things like this throw her off. She had even made my bed for me and organized things in the MBR.
We sat down and talked for a bit... she asked about the job, said it seemed like I was keeping busy, smiled, "That's good." (See, I think it eases her guilt to imagine I'm having a good and full life without her.) She admitted the work has been overwhelming, almost too much, some things have likely slipped through the cracks.
"But I love it," she insisted. I don't disbelieve her. But I also think she hates a lot of it - especially the uncertainty of it.
I said I was glad things were going so well for her, and she said, "Thank you for everything." "For what?" "Well, you did a lot of work in the beginning and so this success is partly yours." (That's the first time she's conceded any such thing since BD - usually it's more about how I should have just gotten a job.)
Then we discussed more separation issues, such as how the cell phone contract is up soon and we need to get new accounts, more details about splitting up the furniture, when to begin showing this house to potential renters, etc. I cannot pretend to be happy about these discussions, but we got through them without rancor. Then she started going around the house measuring the things she plans to keep, and is now talking with her brother on Skype.
Speaking of which, her sister-in-law texted me on Skype the other night, and we chatted for a while. She was expressing thanks for everything that W and I do to help her family (they immigrated here last year), and it's clear WW has not told them what's going on. Strange - I wonder if they even know she's moving.
Anyway, it's nice that because of my absence and all the GALing this past week, I don't feel like I need to leave or anything this afternoon while she's here. Although, this also feels a bit like cake eating - she's been anxious and pursuing this past week, and now that she knows where I am and I'm in the house with her, she's settled down. Even so, I'm just enjoying being home, and it's even not feeling oppressive having her here right now - I guess because we are not being adversarial. She'll be leaving soon, though, for a home inspection. And the strange dance will begin again...
Having my son over for dinner tonight, then going to bed early. I have a long week of training coming up for the job this week. Trying to get a PMA about it all. If I could do what I really want to do right now, I'd just get in my car and drive... and keep driving.
I often think that too Diff - if I just had somewhere to go I would leave. I am trapped here in this city I hate because of the kids. I would not consider leaving while they are young, not even a remote possibility. So here I will remain.
So how do I find you on FB or Twitter? can you like a certain page or tell me what you follow on Pinterest?
Look up Campus Coaches on FB, Heavy. That's the project I've been working on the past two years that, unfortunately, hasn't paid off financially. (W is bitter about that.) You can post on the page I think, or send a message there.
I need a few more posts to get to 100 and finish this thread. Don't want one focused on the OW anymore. I want to focus on more positive things. That's my goal here in this forum for the week.
Bumping to help get to the new thread with a DifRent focus.
See what I did there?
I see. Ha.
Only a few more posts for that new thread. I looked around fb with what you said before. Lighthouse picture
maybe I should look into these green smoothies. Just no celery, I tried that before and I hate it.
I dont think you NEED to be at a hundred to start a new thread....
Fogg, green smoothies saved my life. Seriously. I lost a ton (well, 80 pounds) of weight 5/6 years ago. Put some back on, but thanks to BD, lost most of it again. Funny how that happens...
And yes. The profile pic is from happier days when her arm was around me. And the lighthouse photo means something quite significant. I just have to work harder at BEING the lighthouse...
Maybe not, Azzork. But I jumped too soon into a new thread not too long ago, and Cadet fixed things for me! So I'm a bit sensitive about doing things the right way now.
Hello, by the way. I don't think we've been formally introduced.
Well now you can have your 100th post be the link to new thread,so no worries.
It's not often that you get to end a thread with one of the world's greatest hugs.
HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGG!!!
Bam!
Happy New Thread Day Diff!